[12:01] hppa UP 64-bit kernel (although there are 2 cpus in the machine...) [12:01] anyway, back to the topic at hand. === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kamion finally gets everything from /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/ checked into arch [12:04] I'd been keeping small local diffs for far too long === cc [~byte@byte.fedora] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [12:09] Kamion: heh [12:14] hi guys, have any core ubuntu people taken a look at my 'updates' ideas? [12:15] now isn't really the ideal time to get lots of feedback, I suspect ... :-) [12:15] heh :) [12:21] this 'less to view tar.gz files' stuff is crack [12:25] jdub: why? I have used it for years [12:26] Kamion, mdz: limi's ppc just got blessed with the rc [12:26] it's not something that ever occurred to me (nor worked on debian) [12:26] and it used a network install to get the latest stuff [12:26] i did a reinstall on my ibook last night [12:26] FLAWLESS VICTORY [12:26] but it's still wants the cd for apt-get update etc [12:26] jdub: I agree ;) but you see which effect default configurations have. [12:27] that's a bug [12:27] that seems like a matter of opinion? I quite like it to be able to get packages from the CD when it can [12:28] Kamion: if the network is available during install, seems to me the network becomes the default [12:28] not everybody has a fast network [12:28] aren't they already in a cache on the disk? [12:28] no, we didn't have time to make that work properly. [12:28] not for Ship. [12:28] i pointed this out as a bug before preview [12:29] it's very complicated to make that work properly; I agreed with mdz to defer that [12:29] we do the archive-copier thing for Desktop only, at the moment [12:30] which fulfils the need to not require the CD in a default installation [12:30] understood [12:30] i've no objection to the cd still being useful [12:30] but if the network is there during install, why don't we default to uncommenting that apt source? [12:30] we do, but the CD source is still there [12:31] but... then it prompts all the time [12:31] that's apt's business :-) [12:31] and the usual behaviour is to install then forget about the cd [12:31] i think we should comment out the cd line altogether if network was available during install [12:31] that makes the CD useless. [12:31] which was the behaviour i thought we'd agreed to [12:31] Kamion: it's useful for those who want to use it [12:32] sabdfl: forever, or just for the install? [12:32] it's useful for those who have no network [12:32] jdub: not sure i understand? [12:32] they have to go and uncomment it again in sources.list, or else grovel about with dpkg [12:32] maybe a sources.list reordering would suffice? [12:32] Kamion: how will reordering affect things? [12:32] dunno, just throwing out the idea [12:33] I think apt should get a grip and if the CD isn't inserted just go to the network rather than prompting [12:33] that's not something we can get right for warty [12:33] but commenting in or out we can [12:33] this sort of sources.list hackery is also quite fragile ... [12:33] mdz: need your input [12:33] the last couple of changes we made created bugs, as I recall [12:33] this is a wtf?? bug [12:34] sabdfl: asking if the cdrom line should be disabled forever if they have network, or only for the life of the install, so they're not prompted for it immediately. [12:34] sabdfl: ok [12:34] jdub: they're never prompted for it immediately [12:34] this is "do you want your CD to be insta-transformed into a coaster?" [12:35] jdub: i think it should be disabled post-install if we verified they could see the network repositories [12:35] sabdfl: regarding the cache thing? [12:35] Kamion: they're prompted for it as soon as the second stage install starts (this is the bug) [12:35] jdub: huh? [12:35] Kamion: i've never used a cd more than once for an install, and user comments the other day suggest that's the common case [12:35] jdub: surely not? [12:35] sabdfl: or ordering sources.list? [12:35] jdub: no, i don't think they are [12:35] jdub: that's very different from what sabdfl just claimed [12:35] mdz: not the cache [12:36] is it? [12:36] mdz: does ordering apt sources.list affect the outcome of an update request? [12:36] jdub: sabdfl's talking about apt operations after the install is complete [12:36] sabdfl: "sort of" [12:36] mdz: ok, then i think we need to update the way the sources.list looks post install [12:36] on my installs, if i elect to pull updates from the network, [12:36] if we verified that the machine could see the network archive then the cdrom should be commented out [12:36] it more or less affects the order in which the package records happen to be stored in apt's database [12:37] and the network should be enabled [12:37] i'm propted to put the cd in when it's apt-get updating [12:37] which coincidentally happens to cause it to prefer one over the other [12:37] if you reorder the lines in an existing sources.list, though, that doesn't really work [12:37] jdub: that's a bug, and not one I've seen for weeks [12:37] jdub: hmm... that's definitely a bug [12:37] what about just making the CD's absense a warning instead of fatal? [12:37] it's sort of an accidental feature [12:37] lamont: affects synaptic, aptitude.... etc [12:37] Kamion: i'll double-verify it now [12:37] jdub: apt-get _update_? [12:37] lamont: on update, it is [12:37] that never touches the CD [12:38] CDs are only scanned by apt-cdrom [12:38] jdub: there was a brief bug where the three packages base-config installs before the rest of the second stage weren't on the CD, so it prompted for those [12:38] jdub: but I fixed that a while back [12:38] Kamion: i think the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry can explain how and why a user would re-enable that [12:38] Kamion: that could be it, i'll try now [12:38] sabdfl: does that show up in synaptic? [12:38] jdub: you using rc? [12:38] Kamion: no [12:38] Kamion: the cd prompt? yes [12:39] (the comments in sources.list) [12:39] i used a daily last night [12:39] :-) [12:39] sabdfl: no, "the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry" [12:39] Kamion: no, good point [12:39] but i think it's clear that it's referring to a cdrom [12:39] jdub: I happen to be trying with a daily now for other reasons [12:39] well, if mdz is happy with some more dodgy shell in base-config ... [12:39] I think the right solution is to leave it as-is, but allow it to fall back from the CD to the network if the user doesn't put the CD in [12:40] mdz: how? [12:40] mdz: that's what I thought would be most reasonable behaviour [12:40] sabdfl: patch apt [12:40] so if you're on a slow network you can put the CD in and it'll use that opportunistically [12:40] mdz: agree (the endless "i really want the cd!" prompts are annoying) [12:40] i'd much rather be changing the shell that comments / uncomments sources.list than apt right now [12:40] jdub: yeah, I never really realized that it did that until Ubuntu [12:40] sabdfl: remember that base-config changes can't be fixed on upgrades [12:40] I mean, who uses CDs? [12:41] Kamion: but source.list can't be meddled with on upgrades either, right? [12:41] Kamion: this can't be fixed on an upgrade anyway [12:41] base-config changes are really persistent and really hard to undo from now on if we decide we made a mistake [12:41] mdz: only living breathing ones. [12:41] mdz: yes it can, as soon as apt's patched, existing installations will stop asking for the CD [12:41] sabdfl: ^- [12:41] Kamion: right, sources.list can't be modified on upgrade I mean [12:41] apt is deeeep voodoo [12:41] indeed [12:42] sabdfl: we employ the apt maintainer, it can't be that bad :) [12:42] and just because the witchdoctor is at hand doesn't mean it's where we should fix it :-) [12:42] I think apt is exactly the *right* place for the fix [12:42] it benefits far more people that way [12:42] Kamion: agreed, but balance that against the risk of a mess [12:43] "my sources.list got screwed up on a fresh install of warty" [12:43] i'll call HR, see if i can find the apt maintainer [12:43] sabdfl: fwiw, if mdz thinks he can fix it, I actually think that's less risk than base-config hacks at this stage [12:43] the media change stuff is not _that_ hairy [12:44] jdub: har har, go on call Jane at 10 to midnight, dare you [12:44] not that I particularly want to take responsibility for fixing this at this late hour :-P [12:44] don't worry, she only sends out the pay checks, I'm sure yours won't get lost ;-) [12:44] sounds like "if further records for this package are available, don't emit media change message" [12:45] Kamion: s/$/ again/ [12:45] needs to keep some new state, etc. not entirely trivial [12:46] I'll fix base-config if need be, but I'm concerned that we're regarding base-config changes as automatically lower risk than other things, when in fact they're often hairy changes to hard-to-understand code whose effects persist for a long time [12:46] seems to me the simplest way to fix this for Warty is to leave the stuff in the cache [12:46] mdz: which stuff? [12:46] Kamion: the .debs copied from the CD [12:46] we want to zap the .debs used to install desktop [12:47] they're a huge space-sucker [12:47] right [12:47] but we can leave the rest [12:47] non-trivial, but low-risk [12:47] that's a change to archive-copier and a rather easier change to base-config [12:47] the worst we do is waste some disk space if we err in one direction, or prompt for the CD if we err in the other direction [12:47] Kamion: mdz, i need to switch away but please ping me if you decide not to go ahead with a fix for this [12:48] sabdfl: this is very important to you? [12:48] for Warty?L [12:48] s/L// [12:48] mdz: i think it's terrible user experience to prompt for the cd *every time* [12:48] sabdfl: it's only for a very small number of packages [12:48] how so? [12:49] only packages which are in ShipSeed [12:49] and if we reordered the sources.list? [12:49] if we reordered sources.list, it would fetch everything from the network unless it was down [12:49] and if network was down, and it was a cd package, *then* it would prompt for the cd? [12:50] currently, it fetches ShipSeed from the CD and everything else from the network in the default case [12:50] sabdfl: I _think_ so [12:50] :-) [12:50] I know it falls back from one network source to another, but the CD stuff is a little different [12:50] deep voodoo indeed [12:50] mdz: (which I thought was desirable behaviour - less network usage) [12:50] and I don't use it myself [12:50] leaving the packages in the cache means that apt won't prompt unless you've done 'apt-get clean' or equivalent at some point [12:50] ok, because most users won't [12:50] is there a big synaptic button for "clean cache" that users are likely to press? [12:50] if that's the solution it's fine with me [12:51] my take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt [12:51] i really think we should take the cd out of sources.list altogether by default [12:51] ship list is for expert users in any event [12:51] Kamion: even if we do it by using a copy of ShipSeed in base-config, that's actually fairly reasonable [12:52] mdz: there's an easier way, but yeah [12:52] sabdfl: it's a FAQ, though [12:52] ok [12:52] "how do I get on the network with this crazy module I need to compile"? [12:52] sabdfl: only in the same way as anything not in desktop is for expert users [12:52] ah [12:52] because build-essential is in ship not desktop [12:52] and linux-headers [12:53] so at this terribly late stage in the game can we make a small trade? [12:53] build-essential in exchange for banishing the cd prompt? [12:53] noooooo [12:53] is jdub listening? [12:53] guess so :-) [12:53] ugh [12:54] ok, then no trade, please just banish the cd prompt if at all possible === Kamion goes to change archive-copier to forestall madder hacks :) [12:55] assuming this is acceptable: [12:55] 23:51 < mdz> my take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt [12:57] fine by me if it will banish the cd prompt unless the user has done the apt-cache clean thing [12:58] sounds good [12:58] believe so; I'll test tonight [12:58] I wonder if synaptic automatically prunes the apt cache [12:59] candidate changes already made [12:59] Kamion: wow [01:00] thanks guys [01:00] hm, can anyone test Greek on i386 for me? somebody claims it doesn't work, but it works for me ... [01:00] I'll mail the diffs to mdz for ack [01:01] Kamion: I can "test" greek [01:01] meaning I can tell you if the machine catches fire [01:01] what crack is this mplayer stuff? [01:01] it produces mplayer-$ARCH named packages? [01:02] mdz: about as much as I can do; you can probably also tell me if what base-config displays looks like Greek text or garbage [01:02] elmo: yes, optimised builds [01:03] elmo: I thought it was mplayer-386, mplayer-586, etc. [01:03] mplayer-g4 [01:03] it used to be necessary because it couldn't do runtime CPU detection [01:03] but I think they fixed that [01:03] and marillat just continues to do them [01:03] mdz: synaptic pruning> hope not, if so we'll have to back up and try something else [01:03] for christ's sakes [01:03] Kamion: checking it now [01:03] mdz: (this is #2379, btw) === Lovechild [~dnielsen@82.150.72.35] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [01:04] Kamion: default is to leave all packages in the cache [01:04] same as with apt-get [01:04] mdz: awesome === sladen would like to have have everything on the CD that wasn't installed copied to the APT cache directory [01:18] and/or local on-disk archive (this would allow removing the reference to the install CD from sources.list) [01:19] sladen: the latter's planned for Hoary, but requires some thought about the best way to allow a user to clean it up to save disk space [01:20] it really should be considered a cache, but if you just blow away a local on-disk archive, apt will complain that it's missing [01:20] ah, good, the 'apt-get clean' equivalent is buried in Synaptic -> Preferences -> Temporary Files [01:21] jdub: current daily definitely doesn't require the CD here; if it does for you, shout quickly [01:22] nup, just got past that myself [01:22] rocking [01:22] stage 1 was very zippy [01:22] good good [01:22] it'll slow down a bit by copying Ship, but can't be helped [01:23] and default disk space requirements will go up, but conveniently I never got round to reducing them after I made archive-copier stop copying Ship :-) [01:23] so the docs'll still be accurate [01:24] heh [01:24] lo, my procrastination has been vindicated === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:25] mdz: multiple CD builds on a single day shouldn't require you to set DATE_SUFFIX any more === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:38] Kamion: indeed, and if they go along with the ``automatically update my system'' during startup, then the point of the cache/archive is nullified since there's bound to be a newer version of 90% of the stuff [01:39] sladen: not once we release, there isn't, not for six months [01:39] (modulo the odd security update) [01:40] this is a valid point... [01:41] mdz: #2507, important to fix? it does seem to apply to us [01:42] Kamion: is it as trivial as it looks? [01:43] it's not critical, but nice-to-have-if-it's-safe [01:43] mdz: mplayer now d-w: libdivxdecore0, which is not delivered by any source in the archive... [01:43] mdz: I don't know what that lt.l4 link is about [01:43] the rest (and indeed that) seems entirely safe to me [01:44] only affects udebs [01:44] as long as it doesn't ftbfs, seems safe to me [01:44] so feel free [01:45] lamont: is that not what we just synched? [01:45] no, we sync'd libxvidcore4 or some such [01:48] mdz: hrm. involves another initrd build, though ... [01:49] Kamion: if you're not already planning to do another one, we can let it go [01:49] I'm not, currently; I'll make the change in my local tree and mark it UNRELEASED [01:52] lamont: please track down whatever we need and get it into multiverse and ensure that mplayer builds [01:52] mdz: roger === markoni [marko_tasi@P1-221-20005.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz eyes the assignedto field of #2509 [01:58] the user must have helpfully typed some substring of narayannewton@gmail.com [02:00] mdz: grr [02:01] Kamion: what does a low mem install change? [02:01] all sorts of stuff; it basically disables internationalisation IIRC [02:01] (along with other things) [02:02] selecting a Portuguese keyboard seems to work for me [02:03] I admit that I haven't really tested lowmem installs of Ubuntu much [02:08] does anybodu know why "Computer"-->"Disks" gives me the computer:/// vfolder? [02:09] sivang: yes [02:09] because that is what it is supposed to do [02:10] mdz : why not call it "computer" ? [02:10] sivang: Computer->Computer? [02:10] /nick scotty [02:11] mdz : hhmm.. right. Well, I'll just explain this on the manual..that you can access the Computer VF from Computer->Disks [02:11] sivang: I think that people who know what the computer:/// vfolder is will not look in the documentation :-) [02:12] sivang: no point explaining mechanics [02:12] mdz : well, you're probably right..:) I'll just mention it there for those who don't === hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:12] "where do i get access to my disks?" [02:12] "Computer > Disks" [02:13] jdub : I'm just following what already the gnome user guide (2.8) has [02:16] seeds just pull in depends, not recommends, yes? [02:17] lamont: correct === lamont needs to rehash the liveCD mainmod to be desktop seed, rather than the long list of laundry it is today. [02:19] lamont: any testing feedback for the live CD, apart from me? [02:19] you and amu, that's about it. [02:22] lamont: did you ask for testing on ubuntu-users? [02:22] heh, do we have a bug asking for 2.6.9 yet? [02:22] haven't sent mail, want to try fixing alsa first - have a fix from alex [02:27] elmo: don't encourage them. :) [02:28] base warty is 234M, not bad at all === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:34] hmm, that was with a full apt- cache actually [02:34] so a bit less :-) [02:36] mdz: have given jdub a rundown on the final artwork decision [02:36] for a moment there I thought you said you gave him a rubdown [02:36] seems appropriate :-) [02:36] i'll put up final gdm themes on my chinstrap home dir for testing [02:36] ok [02:37] jdub is qorking (!) up the calendar ackages [02:37] if those test ok then upload them [02:37] we'll probably want to do a final rev because i'll want to weigh in on the package descriptions [02:37] sabdfl: i'm going to tidy up the gdm theme xml [02:38] as in tidy -indent? [02:38] xmllint --format + brain tidying [02:39] jdub: ok, please document any additional changes for me to catch up on, because diff will break on the lint === sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:47] ok, mdz, how does it look that we can make a final build some time tomorrow morning your time? [02:48] calendar package descriptions won't affect the cd, it won't be on the cd [02:48] so i'm done w.r.t. cd changes [02:48] promise :-) === hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [02:51] mdz: ping ^ [02:51] workrave === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:52] 2m === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"] === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:54] sabdfl: that sounds fine [02:54] sabdfl: all pending updates are in [02:54] except the theme, gnomesplash, and artwork-minus-calendar [02:55] s/updates/bugfixes/ [02:55] sabdfl: so you decided not to put the calendar on the CD at all? [02:55] nice inotify in Hoary! [02:57] sabdfl: we need to come up with a name for the semi-official embedded warty I'm going to publish, since I need it for my gateway box === Kamion goes to test archive-copier/base-config change [02:57] "uUbuntu", while cute, is neither pronounceable nor typable [02:57] mu-buntu? [02:58] " [02:58] .. bah, that didn't work. but yeah, mubuntu :) [02:58] there we go, buntu [02:58] heh [02:58] not bad [02:59] elmo: alive? [03:01] fabbione: not really [03:02] Kamion: how are you going about it? [03:02] Kamion: removing debs for packages which are already installed? [03:02] I guess removing everything with an ubuntu-{base,desktop} task would do [03:06] [03:06] [03:06] [03:06] hehehe [03:07] if I compose those, my terminal shows them wonky, until they go from the edit line in irssi into the scrollback. [03:07] weird. [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] [03:07] no idea where my mu is [03:07] could you stop that [03:07] thanks. [03:09] mjg59: around [03:09] buntu [03:09] thats the one [03:09] mdz: nanubuntu [03:10] I just dunno the keyboard shortcut to do it. [03:10] plus you can make mork and mindy jokes [03:10] hmm... we should also have a nannybuntu, for mid-west / mid-east viewers [03:10] lifeless: m+u [03:10] [03:10] [03:10] bah. [03:10] mdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds [03:11] I'll piss tseng off again, wouldn't want bad karma [03:11] lifeless: try the right hand alt, and m [03:11] lamont: ok [03:11] ... I didn't mean you needed to test it in the channel more... [03:11] [03:11] thats right-alt m. [03:11] yes [03:11] vorlon: unless I hit enter, I can't actually see it !? [03:11] sabdfl: we aussies don't have compose set up by default. we don't speak no other englishes. [03:11] sigh [03:11] night all [03:12] night [03:12] sabdfl: night [03:12] 'nacht === vorlon waves === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === tseng peaks in at mono [03:13] vorlon: I don't have a key labeled 'compose' [03:13] tseng: missing anything, I wonder? [03:13] ah nice, gtk-sharp made it this time [03:13] so monodoc should succeed on ppc, x86 next go around [03:14] and then with any luck the apps will build. [03:14] :) [03:14] "I have to admit that I find the black girl somewhat erotically arousing, [03:14] because you can see the fleshy base of her mammary and I am hardwired as [03:14] it were to be visually stimulated by such things." [03:14] ... [03:14] tseng: monodoc is arch: all only? [03:15] well it deps on gtk-sharp [03:15] which is only built on x86 ppc so far [03:16] mono doesn't list amd64 in the control file, so no build happiness there. But mono is 32-bit only, yes? [03:16] so far [03:16] the short answer is yes. [03:17] the long answer is always 'maybe', which is indeed longer than 'yes'. === lamont slaps jdub with a cold trout [03:18] lamont: no? Mine looks slightly like a pull-down menu with a mouse pointer on it :-) [03:18] hm whats going on with muine [03:19] jdub: the long answer is more of a "sortof kindof" [03:19] vorlon: where, that's my question??? [03:20] oh [03:20] After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied: [03:20] libgtk-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgconf-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgnome-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) [03:20] Source-dependencies not satisfied; skipping muine [03:21] i see said the blind man. [03:22] ...as he picked up his hammer and sawa [03:22] saw, even [03:23] jdub: aren't we all? [03:25] lamont: on my keymap, the menu key is a compose key. I think I'm running a keymap that vaguely resembles the stock Debian dvorak X layout, but I could be wrong... [03:26] menu key ? [03:26] the one with a little picture of a drop-down menu [03:26] on a 104-key keyboard [03:26] on 104/105-key "Microsoft" keyboards. [03:26] oh right, [03:27] I have it, it generates '9~' [03:27] #include "bitchy-rant-about-not-being-able-to-find-a-good-105-key-anymore.h" [03:27] without the quotes [03:27] just superglue an old good one to your laptop ? [03:27] :) === lifeless kicks off a regression test run, and goes to stretch legs [03:29] I can get ubuntu down to about 130M without any trouble [03:29] should fit nicely on a 256M CF [03:30] with jffs2 it should go way further down [03:31] I'm using jffs2 currently, and I'm sick of it [03:31] it doesn't support shared writable mmap, and it takes about 15 minutes to do its boot-time consistency check [03:31] I'm told the latter may be fixed in 2.6 [03:31] but the former makes apt unusable, which is rather inconvenient [03:32] mdz: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-02/warty-live-i386.iso [03:33] lamont: any point in trying to rsync against the last one? [03:34] assuming no [03:34] err [03:34] lamont: that image is 688,728,064 bytes [03:34] 650M = 681574400 bytes [03:34] mdz: no, not really [03:34] it turns to crap with the compressed image. === lamont thought CD's were 700MB... [03:35] or must I prune? [03:35] some of them are [03:35] some are not [03:35] _mine_ all are... :-) [03:35] prune to 650MB? [03:35] the CDs we will be pressing are not :-P [03:35] (yes) [03:35] right === lamont will prune === mdz cancels the download [03:37] oof [03:37] wonder what the price difference is [03:38] http://www.livejournal.com/users/whirled/218294.html [03:38] warioware is eeeevviiiil. [03:38] mdz: what should be the first piece of desktop to go *poof*?? [03:39] emacs21 would get me back under the size limit.. :-) [03:40] Remove emacs, add vim-gnome [03:40] mdz: alien and friends can go, yes? [03:40] lamont: (some of those winfoss things are total crack) [03:41] jdub: which ones, and I'll prune the tarball [03:41] lamont: (i'm not going to claim final call on that, but it's an option) === lamont thinks they're all crack, but that's just my anti-windoze bias showing... [03:43] celestia strikes me as fluff [03:43] mmm [03:43] 2.6.9 looks boring [03:43] not much change [03:43] let's ship it! [03:44] jdub: WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH JDUB??? [03:44] haha [03:44] sometimes "no" gets boring [03:44] abiword audacity celestia firefox gimp openoffice pdfcreator thunderbird [03:44] pick some [03:44] well, we don't even ship celestia [03:44] lamont: ttf-baekmuk? [03:44] we kinda depricated abiword, didn't we? [03:44] that might get you below the limit by itself [03:45] mdz: cool [03:45] no, abiword is just in supported [03:45] there are several big font packages [03:45] [03:46] sorry, Korea :-( [03:46] someone has to take one for the team [03:46] or [03:47] we could remove lsb and libc6-dev [03:47] that might do it too [03:47] lamont: abiword and pdfcreator [03:47] pdfcreateor is useful, though... celestia is fluff [03:47] mdz: trying one with ttf-baekmuk gone [03:48] stripping lsb will strip ubuntu-desktop, btw [03:48] lamont: what's this: abiword audacity celestia firefox gimp openoffice pdfcreator thunderbird [03:48] that's the windoze apps that are on the CD uncompressed [03:48] ah [03:48] I think abiword and celestia might make it so that korea doesn't have to take one for the team [03:49] we definitely want abiword [03:49] for windows? [03:49] yes [03:49] ok [03:49] celestia seems a bit esoteric [03:49] but that'd have to go through Mark [03:49] 720 disctree/celestia [03:49] 11968 programs/celestia [03:50] I could strip it for now. Or Korea could be helpful [03:50] might be best to concentrate on smaller live-cd-not-required things [03:50] jdub: OK. [03:50] test build without korea fonts running, eta 30 min... [03:51] Poor .kr [03:52] sigh. home machine filled up. Guess I have to remove some old ISO's. :-) [03:53] libc6-i686?? [03:54] lamont: got that morphix grub thingy handy? [03:54] lamont: what order are the arrows in the bottom left? [03:54] down up or up down? [03:55] sec - gotta reboot [03:55] just check the image... :) [03:55] oh [03:56] if you're rebooting for this, don't [03:56] mdz: no, much easier than that [03:56] but if you're rebooting otherwise, go right ahead [03:56] ;) [03:56] uh, what arrows? [03:56] in the pcx [03:56] down the bottom left [03:56] there are some bits of stuff [03:56] two arrow buttons [03:56] there's boot optoins and such, but I see no buttons [03:56] Kamion: don't keep me in suspense :-) [03:57] lamont: not on the boot screen, on the image itself [03:57] doh [03:57] heh [03:57] mdz: we just move stuff at different times [03:57] mdz: mail on its way to you now [03:57] jdub: what do you mean by smaller live-cd-not-required things? [03:57] tested, works for me [03:58] jdub: left one up, right one down. [03:58] mdz: stupid shit you wouldn't need on a live cd; lamont mentioned alien [03:58] lamont: rock, thanks [03:58] ubuntu-desktop pulls in alien [03:58] jdub: why wouldn't you need alien? [03:58] lamont: alien is required by lsb [03:58] not sure I see the absolute requirement to have ubuntu-desktop [03:58] on the live cd? [03:59] it's not like you're going to be upgrading this, which is basically what u-d is for [03:59] jdub: morphix live CDs use an overlay filesystem, so you can install things [03:59] just added it because it was in the seed... [03:59] likewise, we could drop synaptic and friends, no? But probably shouldn't. [03:59] no, for the same reason [03:59] ubuntu-desktop depends on everything in the seed :) [03:59] just not from http repositories on this CD. [04:00] doesn't seem like we should bother supporting that too much [04:00] jdub: we shouldn't break it for the sake of ~2M [04:00] I'm happy calling http repositories an errata item for the liveCD. (caused we think by the funky FS hooks and sockets...) [04:00] mdz: alien was an example, i'm sure there are other things that are less useful on a livecd [04:01] lamont: want a new grub thingy? [04:01] yes, please [04:01] if you look at the live CD as a demo + rescue environment, pretty much everything is useful [04:02] doc-debian? [04:03] that's tiny anyway [04:03] hm, no it's not [04:03] I'd be more inclined to nuke that than korea... [04:04] does xscreensaver-gl buy us enough to justify? [04:05] and libc6-i686 has potential... === azrail [~azrail@vectra.csh.rit.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:06] mdz: fwiw, the last several CD's have been too large... [04:06] question: I am looking to add a package to the ubuntu tree, whom do I talk to about doing such [04:07] azrail: I meant the ubuntu-devel mailing list. [04:07] azrail: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com [04:07] Kamion, blargh. [04:08] jdub: you sending me that image, or did my spam blocks take it? [04:10] daniels: for my clueless brain... there's a program somewhere in the x-pile that just reads keycodes and dumps their values to stdout.... What is it? [04:10] lamont: one sec [04:11] lamont: xev [04:12] lamont: xev, yah [04:12] thanks [04:14] tseng: yayayayaayya! === jdub dances around like kermit the frog [04:14] jdub: why so? [04:14] mono? [04:15] yeah [04:15] lamont: run dpigs on it [04:15] dpigs -100 -s /livecd/var/lib/dpkg/status [04:15] dropping ttf didn't do squat [04:15] ok. [04:17] you mean dpkgs? [04:18] or where does dpigs come from? [04:19] debian-goodies [04:19] 126784 openoffice.org-bin [04:19] 36096 emacs21-common [04:19] 28896 openoffice.org [04:19] 28604 evolution [04:19] 28156 gnome-applets-data [04:19] \ [04:19] heh [04:20] they're crap, rip 'em all out [04:20] I vote emacs21-common leaves [04:22] actually, ubuntu-desktop pulled in ttf-baekmuk. time for it to die. [04:23] 23 minutes [04:24] jdub: timer is gonna be brown on brown... [04:25] lamont: isn't that what the little white line is for? [04:25] maybe. dunno === jdub tinks it is === lamont builds === lamont builds the home edition with the new artwork. === jamesh [~james@203-59-213-254.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:42] -rw-r--r-- 1 root buildd 676261888 Oct 19 03:41 warty-live-i386.iso [04:42] that better? [04:43] 645MB. [04:45] Kamion: still here? [04:46] lamont: yes [04:47] mdz: people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso [04:49] jdub: does mono deliver a jdk [04:49] ? [04:53] mdz et al: downloading? [04:53] mdz: yes [04:53] jdub: this also has the new grub screen [04:56] mdz: I couldn't find divxdecode0 anywhere, but did see some comments about dealing with divx better in the vidxcore package, so I'm going to try building mplayer without it... [04:59] jamesh: heh, I just assumed that that drag-search-result-to-the-trash thing actually worked with the original trashcan [04:59] mdz: nope. [05:00] lamont: don't you mean libdivxdecore0? [05:00] mdz: yeah. that one [05:00] lamont: you're sure you didn't search for 'decode' rather than 'decore'? [05:00] google finds many references [05:00] 99% certain... yea, but no nice pretty debian packages that I could find., [05:01] divx4linux (1:5.0.1-1) unstable; urgency=low [05:01] * New upstream release. [05:01] -- Christian Marillat Sat, 27 Apr 2002 14:34:55 +0200 [05:01] where! [05:01] google [05:01] _very first hit_ [05:01] sigh. saw that was clearly an email, ignored it.. === lamont should read more [05:02] it wasn't an email [05:02] it was a directory index [05:02] searching for libdivxdecore0? [05:02] yep [05:02] http://www.google.com/search?&q=libdivxdecore0 [05:03] Index of doc/...? [05:03] correct [05:03] look in changelog, find source package name, search for dsc, find source package [05:04] and go see mowgli, eh? [05:05] the man-cub [05:05] Guess I should test build it before I request the sync, eh? [05:08] mdz: except that said source doesn't produce libdivxdecore0 === lamont searches more [05:11] morning guys [05:13] mdz: no joy here. [05:14] and mplayer apperas to be missing a builddep on xmms [05:16] eh? mplayer shouldn't need xmms to build [05:17] cc: /usr/lib/libxmms.so.1: No such file or directory [05:18] configure ... --enable-xmms [05:22] mdz: uploaded === hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:37] Kamion: does that require an initrd update? [05:38] mdz: no [05:38] yay [05:38] roughly speaking only udebs needed up to and including "Loading installer components from CD" are in the initrd [05:40] anyway, long past my bedtime [05:44] Log for successful build of mplayer [05:44] mdz: so... interesting thing... [05:45] if you take the source package in our archive, and you say 'dpkg-buildpackage -S', you get a source package without the libdivxdecore0 Build-Dep [05:45] so, can I upload? [05:46] lamont: fascinating [05:46] yes [05:47] mdz: oh, before I go, did I understand sabdfl correctly earlier that he wants a final-candidate warty build tomorrow morning your time? [05:49] there are 4 debian/control files, and one of them gets copied into debian/control during debian/rules clean [05:51] mplayer uploaded. [05:51] the crowd may cheer. [05:51] now then, about java... [05:51] what should I install on my wife's computer? === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:54] so do we correct the people who call it 4.1? [05:55] jdub: was that grubscreen supposed to have different bands of color in the climbing timer? [05:55] lamont: I've been doing so when I can be bothered [05:56] Kamion: it won't be to significant until 5.10 > 5.04 > 5.1 :-) [05:58] jdub? === lamont points jdub (and whoever) at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/jdub-grub.jpg [06:06] should it look like that. I mean, the bars are kinda unique on the countdown clock... Just wondering if it was intentional. [06:28] sigh. libc_5.4.46-15 bootstrapped. [06:28] as did libdb_1.85.4 [06:35] so did anyone download & boot 20041019-03? === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === lamont pokes mdz [06:41] Subject: mplayer_1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW === lamont looks around for katie... [06:41] because apparently "mplayer" != "mplayer" === lamont sleeps [07:03] mdz: still around? [07:14] lamont: back [07:14] garage door repair was needed [07:14] Kamion: he said "tomorrow" [07:14] Kamion: it was not clear whether he meant yours+his or mine [07:16] mdz: you got email :P [07:17] s/email/MORE email/ [07:20] no no.. when you get mail from me, they are always full of love :P === fabbione needs to swap 2 workstations really soon === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === SuperL4g [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:42] Did I hear right that there was going to be some big discussion today about the artwork? [07:59] lamont: weird [08:00] lamont: i thought they were in the right spot for the arrows [08:00] SuperLag: that was on #ubuntu much earlier === tix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:28] ARGH [08:28] 2516 to 2521 === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [08:47] 11. Pressed PowerPC and AMD65 CDs Available [08:47] WOHHAAAA [08:47] AMD65 <--!!! [08:48] morning [08:48] it must be cool :P === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jamesh_ [~james@203-59-18-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === drobitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:28] fabbione: I guess they counted the nx bit as well, or something. :P [09:28] ehehe [09:34] fabbione: xfree doesn't put anything in /usr/X11R6/lib32, does it? [09:34] (on amd64) [09:34] no [09:34] only {whatever}/lib [09:34] yeah, good === sivang [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:46] morning all [10:07] glslideshow is a *bad* screensaver [10:07] Keybuk : why bad? [10:08] I fed it the directory with all my digital camera albums in it [10:08] and then I sit and stare at it for hours going "ooh, I remember that" [10:08] it seems to use gobloads of cpu, despite using gl [10:09] jdub: really? it doesn't for me [10:10] i should try again on my desktop === jdub goes to do ubuntu presnetation [10:10] doesn't use enough to seriously appear in top === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:17] morning === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:46] Hi seb128 [10:48] hey pitti === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lifeless_ [~robertc@dsl-69.8.240.220.rns01-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:40] daniels: ping === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:49] Hello all [11:50] <__daniel> hai enrico === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:44] oops, I broke the daily CD build script [12:44] fixing ... === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-5-230.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] Kamion: is that the reason why there are still no dailys available for today? [12:46] Kamion: I'd like to test today's [12:46] pitti: yes [12:46] today's is building now [12:46] oh fine [12:46] thanks [12:46] I noticed when I also tried to test today's :) [12:47] fallout from the attempt to make multiple cron.daily invocations on the same day work [12:47] Kamion: it's still the "old" artwork, right? [12:47] kinda surprised I didn't get cronmail about the failure, though [12:47] pitti: I've no idea if the new artwork has been uploaded yet; I haven't got to warty-changes in my mail-reading yet [12:48] Kamion: I read it, no changes until now [12:48] Kamion: I'm just not sure whether this must be changed in artwork or in /etc/skel, base-config or whatever [12:52] just ubuntu-artwork (and possibly friends) as far as I know. [12:53] I really hope base-config doesn't need to be changed, since that would directly imply that we weren't fixing things properly on upgrade. [01:01] Kamion: do you know if jdub uploaded new artwork, gdm and calendar pkgs last night? [01:03] sabdfl: apparently not [01:04] 'k thanks [01:04] I'll do a new CD build the moment I see them hit the archive [01:05] great [01:05] btw, limi's ppc build last night said "Debian/warty" or something like that in MacOS disk info === kylem_ [~kyle@CPE0030ab0b413b-CM023469906297.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:09] pitti: new images up [01:09] sabdfl: that's odd, I thought it had been Ubuntu/warty forever [01:09] Kamion: thanks! Sucking them now... [01:10] Volume id: Ubuntu 4.10 ppc Bin-1 [01:10] hmm [01:10] sabdfl: You were looking for me last night? [01:10] oh, it'll be the HFS volid, not the ISO9660 one [01:11] ./tools/boot/warty/boot-powerpc:echo -n " -part -no-desktop -hfs-bless CD$N/install -hfs-volid Debian/PowerPC_${CODENAME} " \ [01:11] bleh [01:11] sabdfl: fixed, thanks [01:11] :-) you're welcome [01:12] Kamion: have you been drinking your merging potion? [01:12] for post-warty? [01:12] i hope yo mama dropped you in it when you was a little boy, and it had a permanent effect [01:12] * [01:12] currently here <------------------------> post-warty <-> the moon :-) [01:13] it's getting the 1st 200 km that hurts, trust me [01:13] but yeah, I suspect I will be knee-deep in d-i merging for some time [01:13] heh [01:13] Hrm. [01:14] We now stand a decent chance of some amount of StR functionality on most hardware for Hoary - it's getting that last bit that's going to be nasty [01:14] SR? [01:14] Suspend to Ram [01:14] nasty? this is what we do before breakfast :-) [01:15] mjg59: please could you help elmo register buntu.(com/net/org) for us? i've no idea of the idn foo required [01:15] mdz: do you want me to upload jigit, or are you on it? [01:16] We're at the point where most hardware either wakes up to a good approximation of properly, or blows up immediately [01:16] sabdfl: You want xn--buntu-7be.(com/net) - .org doesn't do IDN yet [01:17] literally xn--buntu-7be? [01:17] The nc40xx series seems to be firmly in the blows up immediately camp [01:17] sabdfl: Yup [01:17] wow [01:17] ok [01:17] punycode is funky (in the RUN AWAY sense) [01:17] why didnt they just use utf8? [01:17] DNS doesn't support 8-bit streams [01:17] Or, rather, there are limites on what can go in an A record [01:18] mjg59: who on earth runs dns over anything else? [01:18] Not all of ascii is valid, either [01:18] You basically get alphanumerics and - [01:18] the DNS RFCs strictly define the set of allowed chars in DNS records, and they felt they couldn't afford to break interop with existing implementations. [01:19] Apparently not everybody on the Internet runs bind9 on Debian, bah. [01:19] cut 'em loose, I say ;) [01:19] the requirements draft puts it a little more strongly :-) [01:19] [1] The DNS is essential to the entire Internet. Therefore, the service [01:19] MUST NOT damage present DNS protocol interoperability. It MUST make the [01:19] minimum number of changes to existing protocols on all layers of the [01:19] stack. It MUST continue to allow any system anywhere to resolve any [01:19] internationalized domain name. [01:20] Kamion: Do you still have that bastard evil VIA laptop? [01:21] mjg59: yes [01:21] Can I grab that off you at some point? [01:21] mjg59: the C3? sure, I can drop it over today [01:21] Cool. [01:22] I /think/ it'll probably suspend/resume now [01:22] rock [01:22] is this with 2.6.9? [01:22] Plus a couple more patches [01:23] There were a couple of problems - firstly, the kernel was writing a virtual address to the wakeup register, not a physical one [01:23] would you prefer it with or without a working install of something? [01:23] Heh [01:23] All I need is a kernel, bash, and scp [01:24] I'll give you a full install then, less effort [01:25] Kamion: ping me when ready to test the new iso's :-) [01:25] Cool, thanks [01:25] fabbione: any particular new ISOs? [01:26] Ooh. ntfs support is getting closer to file creation/deletion [01:26] Kamion: the one that will be final tomrrow? ;) [01:26] fabbione: I'm sure it won't be silent here :) [01:27] mjg59: hmm, there's actually been progress on that? [01:28] vorlon: There's code for inode allocation/deallocation now [01:28] last I asked, I was told that it *probably* wouldn't blow anything up as long as I was writing to an existing file whose size I didn't need to change. ;) [01:28] now somebody please make parted support NTFS :) [01:28] But yeah, the only safe thing is not to change the size yet [01:29] doesn't it already? Are we still using ntfsresize from partman? [01:31] mjg59: is StR going to basically require custom voodoo for each separate laptop? [01:34] vorlon: the latter, AFAIK [01:35] (Ubuntu isn't even doing that, because the change arrived late in our freeze period and it's a very scary change.) [01:35] sabdfl: In the long run, no === vorlon could probably be induced to add ntfs support to parted post-sarge. [01:35] hooray [01:36] jamesh: I read in your blog that you are working on fancy panel icons for mounted devices, right? === Kamion makes note to send vorlon a few gallons of caipirinha [01:36] after all, it's just not right for there to be a Windows-related technology that I haven't touched from Linux. :) [01:37] jamesh: bug #980 is about that, can I assign it to you? [01:37] ack, wait, this means I have to learn C# too, nooooo [01:37] pitti: I'm looking. [01:37] sabdfl: We still need to solve the video reinitialisation problem === martink [~chatzilla@141.76.2.7] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:38] But other than that, the problems are going to be down to individual drivers that do the wrong thing [01:38] hey apparently there's a linux distribution that only runs perl [01:38] Fixing most of those drivers is easy, but there's a lot of grunt work involved [01:38] we should ask them if they want to do it as a derivative [01:38] what, like, init=/usr/bin/perl? [01:38] "pubuntu" :-) [01:39] poobuntu? [01:39] nah [01:39] pitti: sure. Go ahead [01:39] jamesh: thanks. [01:40] pitti: if you are interested, a snapshot of my code is here: http://www.gnome.org/~jamesh/drivemount-new-20041014.tar.gz [01:41] jamesh: nice! How is it installed, is it kind of a daemon? [01:41] jamesh: so just run the program in the background? [01:41] pitti: at the moment it is just an application. [01:41] pitti: the plan is to replace the old drivemount applet with that code. === |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:42] pitti: It is using the same APIs as Nautilus to list, mount and unmount volumes [01:42] so when I tell it to unmount the cdrom drive, Nautilus closes all the open windows for that volume too. [01:42] jamesh: so gnome-vfs2; sounds sane [01:43] jamesh: and the "current" one uses its own stuff? [01:43] yeah. [01:43] jamesh: nice, then it should automatically use pmount [01:43] pitti: the current one just calls mount and umount [01:43] pitti: which also means that it can't unmount any volume with a trash directory (because of the dnotify watches) [01:43] jamesh: btw, I think this is the same with gnome-volume-manager; it shouldn't need an extra pmount patch, but it does ATM [01:44] oh, right [01:44] pitti: my new code worked flawlessly on Ubuntu with the USB keys I tried [01:46] so yes, it is working with pmount properly [01:46] jamesh: just tried it [01:46] jamesh: works nice! [01:46] jamesh: and as an applet this will be integrated into the panel, I guess [01:47] yes. [01:47] jamesh: it's just a little disturbing to see five identical icons :-) [01:47] pitti: it is asking gnome-vfs for the icon names, actually. [01:48] jamesh: I saw that the names appear as bubble help [01:48] pitti: so if gnome-vfs provided different icon names, the applet would display different icons :) [01:48] jamesh: maybe Hoary's call can tell the drive types apart and we have different symbols for USB keys [01:48] jamesh: s/call/hal/ [01:48] jamesh: I think I have seen sth about this on some utopia list [01:49] gnome-vfs+hal icons are a lot nicer [01:50] pitti: on Fedora there is an updfstab program (part of kudzu), and it uses the product names to guess the device type [01:50] pitti: it isn't perfect though, since if it doesn't find a matching entry in the config file, it sometimes doesn't end up mounting the drive ... [01:51] (whereas the same USB key just works on Ubuntu) [01:51] nice to hear :-) [01:51] although I still get far too many "my drive is not mounted" bugs [01:51] although most of them are now kernel bugs [01:52] the Fedora code also tries to classify different mass storage devices (eg. if it is a camera) [01:52] jamesh: hmm, g-v-m should take care of that in U [01:53] which can really only be done by matching product names [01:53] jamesh: we currently use the presence of a dcim/ folder [01:53] jamesh: quite hackish, but works well so far [01:53] yep. [01:53] jamesh: plug in a camera, see gthumb automatically open [01:54] pitti: that also has the benefit that if you pull the memory card out of a camera and plug it into a card reader, it treats it the same as plugging in the camera. [01:54] jamesh: right [01:55] jamesh: a friend of mine was pretty impressed as he saw this work with his pcmcia card reader :-) [01:55] so even when it misdetects something as a camera, it provides an option that the user probably wants :) [02:17] anyone test http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso yet? [02:26] lamont: downloading now [02:26] i guess rsync is not worth... [02:27] rsync is useless for this [02:27] ETA 40 min [02:31] at what time is the meeting today? [02:31] 16:00 UTC? [02:31] uh, what meeting? [02:31] Tech Board [02:32] yeah it's at 16 UTC [02:33] WHOO === kylem_ is now known as kylem === lamont must drive children too school. back in about 90 minutes [02:35] i need some extra crack :-) === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [02:36] four and a half hours? [02:36] ETA 3:08; sigh === daniels decides that staying up for TB is an impossibility. [02:36] thom: wanna pick me up from the airport at 5:25? :P [02:36] no, not really :P [02:37] i seem to bring all the red-eyes === daniels kicks IE in the nads. [02:39] XP and IE are horrific. and I haven't got the softmodem working on the X40, and our USB ACM support is broken. yay! [02:40] daniels: you want to take a look at 060_ [02:40] daniels: and probably push it upstream === daniels stares at IE's SSL support. [02:40] fabbione: yeah [02:40] (so-called 'support') [02:41] fabbione: will do [02:42] daniels: i am talking about X.org [02:42] not Xfree86 [02:42] all the manpages where missing info :P [02:42] just small details.. [02:43] fabbione: huh? [02:43] fabbione: are you saying you want me to push xfree86's #060 upstream? [02:43] no [02:43] ok ... [02:43] i said push my 060 from X.org to X.org [02:43] is that in the xsf tree? [02:43] yes [02:44] committed 2 minutes ago [02:44] can you please put it up on rookery or something? [02:44] i'm on dialup here [02:44] daniels: sure [02:44] ahhh [02:45] daniels: people/~fabbione/060_fix_XOrgManDefs.diff [02:45] thanks dude [02:46] daniels: XORGRELSTRING is never defined [02:46] same as the other one [02:46] and the way in which the string is built is generally wrong [02:46] that's a simple fix [02:46] but there are better than that one [02:46] just don't ask me to do one NOW [02:47] fabbione: ah thanks, I'll commit that [02:47] check it first :-) [02:48] just see man pages ike security._man [02:48] or X.Org [02:48] and see how it changes with that patch [02:50] yeahRSE, I HATE XP [02:50] yeah [02:50] oh my god, go away. ARGH! [02:51] 'you're obviously blind. would you lie me to read everything aloud?') [02:55] daniels: ? [02:56] mjg59: seemingly, every time I press something, the frigging Narrator dialog box comes up (well, THREE of them) [02:56] and I've had about 4 other a11y-related things pop upa t me === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [03:57] fabbione: word? [03:59] lamont: ? [03:59] excel? [03:59] livecd [04:00] oh right! [04:00] i forgot to burn it :P === Mithrandir chuckles [04:00] lamont: doing it now.. sorry.. got sucked in X.org documentation [04:01] at least that package is almost done [04:01] heh [04:01] Kamion: 1659 - so hwclock.sh should modprobe rtc, eh? === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:33] lamont: i can still read "welcome to MOrphix" === fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:36] well it boots :) [04:36] but it`s odd because the fb goes up to 1600x1200 [04:36] X no [04:38] hmm we can do better for hoary [04:39] fabbione-live: where is the 'Welcome to Morphix"? [04:39] which screen, that is. [04:39] at the boot [04:40] before it switches to fb mobe [04:40] ah, ok. [04:40] not the grub splash, and not the fb-mode stuff, but rather that short amount of text inbetween. [04:40] correct [04:43] mdz awake yet? === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:45] lamont: is there anything special you want me to test? [04:46] fabbione-live: well, everything. But prior to asking on ubuntu-users, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't process-b0rked. (bulk download here would take over a day, or cost me money...) [04:46] and still take 6 hours [04:47] well... the games work [04:49] hmmm interesting [04:49] it uses automatically a swap if it finds it === lamont is reminded of the good old days, when he got paid to play rogue [04:49] yeagh [04:49] that means that if i suspend to disk using the swap partition i will lose my session [04:50] I expect so [04:53] lamont: is there any option available for the user to avoid it? [04:53] the grub session is simply too fast to have the time to read [04:54] fabbione-live: dunno === x4m [~max@68.157-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [04:56] hit a key during that 5 second window === lamont grabs bugzilla and beats it against the wall [04:59] lamont: the problem is that sometimes my screen takes more than 5 secs to sync the freq [04:59] and i can barely see the grub stuff [04:59] fabbione: you need a better screen, obviously. :-) [05:00] reboot, pause a few seconds, and then begin a rythmic tattoo on the shift key [05:00] :-) [05:00] ahha [05:00] any preferred song to follow? [05:01] shave and a hair cut is too short.. :_) [05:01] something with a good beat, obviously. [05:01] you know.. Metallica might lead to the BIOS error: "Error detecting the keyboard. Please press F1 to boot" === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:28] lamont: maybe only on architectures that have it, or maybe hwclock itself should do it in the code paths where it's about to access /dev/rtc [05:30] Kamion: could blindly modprobe it though, yes? [05:31] s' probably OK, I think I'd be more comfortable with doing it only when it's needed [05:31] (powerpc doesn't have rtc, wouldn't want to generate bogus error output there) [05:31] but whatever flies :) [05:35] Kamion: any sign of those artwork packages? [05:37] sabdfl: nothing on warty-changes === T-Bone [varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sivang [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [05:53] morning [05:53] evening ;) [05:53] Kamion: go ahead with jigit, you're best equipped to know when it's ready [05:56] hey mdz [05:56] yerk, we don't have wdiff in main? [05:56] mdz: please discard my last mail [05:56] mdz: ok, looking at it now [06:00] meeting time [06:01] yup === x4m [~max@246.154-136-217.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:06] mdz: sabdfl wants you in #u-meeting === [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:43] Hi, I need some help understanding the Ubuntu install process to fix a broken installation. [06:43] After the reboot, how does the installer determines the packages he has to install ? [06:43] (and which module of the installer does this work ?) [06:47] lucas_, i guess it's the ubuntu-*-packages it installs [06:47] <__daniel> but i'm no ubuntu developer [06:48] root@dell ~ # dpkg -l ubuntu-*-packages [06:48] Aucun paquet ne correspond ubuntu-*-packages. [06:49] bsae-config is the package that does the work after the first reboot [06:49] <__daniel> dpkg -l | grep ^"ii ubuntu" ---> ubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-base, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-sounds [06:50] thanks [06:50] I don't understand why dpkg -l ubuntu-* fails to list them [06:50] <__daniel> because it literally looks for "ubuntu-*" === maarf [~ob@165.80-203-182.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:51] lucas_: dselect update [06:51] <__daniel> ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-base should imho suffice [06:51] lucas_: maybe 'dpkg -l "ubuntu-*"' [06:51] __daniel: dpkg -l | --list package-name-pattern ... [06:51] List packages matching given pattern. [06:51] with the quotes [06:52] otherwise your shell expands the "*" [06:52] T-Bone: I thought of that [06:52] but i guess that's more a #ubuntu discussion [06:52] I'll install ubuntu-desktop, thanks [06:52] yeah, now it is :) [06:53] <__daniel> T-Bone, i didnt want to leave it unanswered [06:54] (btw dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" is still broken. never mind.) [06:55] [varenet@daffy ~] $ dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" | grep ii [06:55] ii ubuntu-artwork 0.2.11-1 Ubuntu themes and artwork [06:55] lucas_: dselect update [06:55] Keybuk: did it [06:56] ok, found the problem [06:56] you should be able to dpkg -l on available but not installed then [06:56] wrong xterm [06:56] I just won the price === lucas_ is going to ban himself from #ubuntu-devel for the next few months ;) [06:57] bye === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bezig] === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:29] has anyone had any problems with postgres and HT? [07:29] (does anyone even use postgres in warty with a HT machine?) [07:29] lol === Keybuk warms rookery up a little *cackle* === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === T-Bone is now known as T-Gone [07:58] elmo : do you want someone to use it ? :) [07:58] elmo : I'll install it right away if you need [07:58] people have confirmed ipw2100/ipw2200 to work in the installer, haven't they? === Kamion eyes http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport [08:04] lamont: so, live CD [08:04] lamont: what has changed since last night? [08:04] Kamion: they have? [08:04] it appeared in the list, but I didn't actually test bringing it up [08:04] I'll do that in my next test [08:05] thanks [08:06] Kamion: ipw2200 is still busted on the test laptop, but stays busted even with a compile of the latest module and firmware [08:06] bizarrely it did work at one stage but i haven't had the bandwidth to keep up [08:07] mdz: 20041019-03 had the newest kernel, -ttf-baekmuk. 20041019-18 is +ttf-bakemuk -win.celestia [08:07] lamont: what about the sound issue? [08:07] Oct 18 18:11:00 mdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds [08:07] lamont: was that 1019-03? [08:08] yep [08:08] so it's pester alex time === inklingx [~inklingx@u212-239-167-156.adsl.pi.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:08] but not in IM. :-( [08:09] are we goig to need another release announcment? [08:10] i think the delta from the RC announcment will be relatively small [08:10] mdz: But I'd like to push 1019-03 to ubuntu-users for exposure, with the caveat that sound is likely busted [08:10] lamont: absolutely, you said you were doing that last night [08:10] mako: yes, we are [08:10] sabdfl: should we hype up the final release announcement a bit, now that it's not vapour? [08:10] mdz: was waiting for a boot check, got that this AM, wondered if anyone wanted to review the mail to u-u before I sent it... [08:11] hmm, we're in DWN this week [08:11] due to this: http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html?start=24 [08:13] seb128: gataxx is still broken on amd64; I've got it network-connected now so I'm trying to debug [08:13] it was a pretty good writeup [08:14] i'm glad DWN picked it up :) [08:14] Kamion: can you fix the iso/bt info? looks like Thom got the wrong image... [08:14] azeem: good work sir :) [08:14] mako: agreed [08:14] lamont: no, he didn't put it on little [08:15] it's on cdimage. [08:15] lamont: which means it will very likely be deleted next cdimage sync [08:15] lamont: cdimage == auckland [08:15] you want to put it on little and sync? [08:15] or is that really a thombot thing? [08:15] Kamion: still segfault ? [08:15] yup, grabbing now [08:16] p.u.o/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/current/warty-live-i386-20041019-18.iso [08:16] weird I've tested the fix on an amd64 box it was ok [08:16] seb128: right [08:16] lamont: what's broken with the image again? [08:16] you mean known bugs? [08:16] the image he grabbed won't fit on a 650MB CD. [08:16] lamont: no, "fix the iso/bt info" <-- that [08:16] oh, I just need to refresh it? [08:16] yes [08:17] ok [08:17] might not hurt to give it some more version-ish infrastreucture than sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386.iso, too. [08:17] yup, I'll give it the same filename you did [08:17] won't bother with anything more involved for this === lamont updates his announcement [08:19] lamont: acpid is not running on the live CD [08:19] that means no totally rad laptop support [08:19] lamont: i got the one you told me to [08:19] thom:yeah, I screwed up the symlink [08:19] mdz: is that RC? [08:19] putting it on little will be the best bet going forward [08:20] thom: did you exclude /sounder-test/live/ from syncage or something? [08:20] lamont: not a showstopper, but it should be on the list [08:20] I did a sync-mirrors but it doesn't seem to be appearing [08:20] mdz: right [08:21] but this sync means that I can drop the ttf-baekmuk issue [08:21] gtk_gridboard_clear_pixmaps (widget=0x607d20) at gtkgridboard.c:530 [08:21] 530 gridboard->pixmaps[x] [y] =get_pixmap_num(EMPTY); [08:21] seb128: ^- [08:22] Kamion: it's probably root owned [08:22] one sec [08:22] seb128: gridboard->pixmaps[x] is NULL [08:22] mdz: I could just file bugs for some of them... do we have a LiveCD component yet? [08:22] lamont: just file them against whatever and assign to alextreme [08:22] right [08:22] lamont: did you verify that -celestia +ttf-baekmuk was <=650M? [08:23] Kamion: you have the crash when you run it ? [08:23] seb128: yes [08:23] Kamion: ownership changed [08:23] arg [08:23] seb128: you called the patch .crash [08:23] Kamion: I've named the patch .crash instead of .patch [08:23] :-) [08:23] damnit [08:24] Kamion: I'll fix it now === Kamion does a test build to verify [08:24] still a time to do an upload ? [08:24] Trying patch debian/patches/01_gridboard.patch at level 0...1...2...failure. [08:24] mdz: does seb128 have time? [08:26] seb128: you missed out a leading space from the 'for' line [08:27] yeah, I've fixed it here [08:27] lamont: new iso is ready ? [08:27] ready to upload if we have time [08:27] seb128: I'd just go, don't think new artwork has been uploaded anyway [08:27] ...live-iso [08:28] mdz: yes. [08:28] mdz: issue was I had a bad symlink, and thom fetched the wrong iso. hence explicit naming is a good thing,. [08:28] Kamion: ok [08:28] thom: syncing again === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:29] amu: as soon as kamion/thom get done with it, it'll be at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386-20041019-18.iso.torrent [08:29] (or without the .torrent) [08:29] amu: how's your overall bandwidth situation? [08:29] lamont,amu: done, with .torrent [08:29] net bandwidth [08:30] seb128: works for me with those changes [08:30] ok, cool [08:30] ok d'l ... takes 30min. === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:34] amu: lamont mentioned you had compiled a list of live CD issues, could you send me a copy? [08:36] mdz: a very quick & dirty thing, i tested it from the view as a user. There are many many more things :) [08:36] mdz: still time for the gnome-games fixe ? [08:36] seb128: bug#? [08:37] seb128: #2345 [08:37] oops [08:37] mdz: ^- [08:37] patch wasn't applied properly [08:37] mdz: it's closed, I've missnamed the .patch and it didn't get applied [08:37] seb128: ok, quickly [08:38] thanks [08:38] done [08:39] mdz: send [08:44] amu: I haven't received anything via email, but lamont gave me a summary on IRC [08:45] mdz: those were the RC bugs I gave you.. [08:45] that's all I'm interested in at this time [08:46] ok. just forwarded amu's mail to @a.n [08:46] Oct 19 20:40:42 bofh postfix/smtp[14768] : BBA518632A: to=, relay=fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com[82.211.81.145] , delay=2, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 35238B6801B) [08:46] just in case you want to upgrade any of them [08:47] sjoerd: easy fix, he was not in the plugdev group :-) [08:47] pitti: ah === lamont must run a quick errand. bbiab [08:52] mdz: you need more input for hoary ? [08:53] amu: ? [08:54] bug ( usability ) reports [08:54] strange, [08:54] i get rejected by tracker error when trying to download lamont [08:54] amu: warty is our highest priority right now [08:54] 's new iso [08:54] mdz: did you get my mail now ? [08:54] anybody a clue? === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is TOMORROW [08:56] amu: no [08:57] mdz: stange, my log told me, it's delivered, kick your postmaster *g* [08:59] amu: there are 4 hops between your relay and me [09:00] ..ooO my homenet === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:00] hi enrico! [09:01] enrico: hey there [09:01] sivang: hello! [09:01] enrico : finally got my network working === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:05] anybody had any experiences of getting black screens when running X on a dell laptop? even my old (working) config file doesn't seem to make any difference [09:05] (otherwise, I'm a new user and love it) [09:07] I plugged a monitor into my laptop and could get X working fine, so it might be something to do with the 1400x1050 TFT. [09:08] I'm asking on here as I thought some of you guys might be interested in more info, which I'd happily provide if you told me what needs doing. the laptop is a few years old though (inspiron 5000), so may not be a priority for warty... === chrisa|dl [~chris@freedom.cis.ohio-state.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:09] hi... can someone tell me why http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates is "immutable"? [09:09] i wanted to add myself... [09:10] madduck : have you created a login? [09:10] madduck : you need to create a wiki name / login before [09:10] What does ubuntu use in place of debian's 'menu' package? [09:10] okay. makes sense. i missed the tiny buttons on the top. [09:11] madduck : I'm sure it happend to everyone at start :) === ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [09:12] any of the desktop gurus, has the app switcher thingy that used to exist on the right upper corner been custumized removed from Ubuntu Desktop? [09:12] (i can't find it) [09:13] It's called "Window Selector" isn't it? [09:13] yes it is [09:13] sorry for that [09:13] :) [09:13] heh, your turn. I notice applications like gvim seem to get no menu entry [09:16] mako: around? [09:17] chrisa|dl: yes, we're trying to keep the number of things in the menu as minimal as possible [09:18] thom: I figured as much [09:18] It never occurred to me that gnome seems to lack a simple menu editting interface [09:22] chrisa|dl: what about applications:/// === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [09:38] enrico: yes, i'm around [09:38] enrico: was taking a shower :) [09:46] mdz: I've uploaded jigit. OK to add to Supported? [09:46] it's managed to grab an ISO correctly for me === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:55] Kamion: yes [09:58] done === doogie [~adam@brown.brainfood.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doogie looks for ubuntu developers/maintainers who are also debian maintainers === jvw [jeroen@233pc233.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === braindmg [~guillem@braindmg.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:05] crikey, it's the #debian-devel invasion [10:05] that's not the reason I joined. [10:06] no, but the grouping was scary :-) [10:06] you're on #debian-devel, so can see my messages [10:06] doogie: there are quite a number of ubuntu maintainers who are d-ds [10:07] yes, I know. === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [10:10] $"%$!$! I need once a time a year a printer, exactly then it does not run [10:17] mdz: did Keybuk tell you what he was doing with his ubuntu-artwork packages? [10:18] Kamion: no [10:18] is he asleep? [10:18] apparently so === lamont returns === Kamion is tempted to ring him and try to wake him up [10:18] 19:55 < Keybuk> right, I'm going to crash [10:18] 19:56 -!- Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has quit ["Leaving"] [10:19] " * prepared and uploaded new ubuntu-artwork package" [10:20] perhaps the upload got rejected ? [10:21] must have done ... [10:21] Does ubuntu have something similar to packages.debian.org? [10:21] chrisa: not exactly... [10:22] it *seems* to be in chinstrap:~scott/ === Kamion ponders dputting that, but I think I should test it first :) [10:22] lamont: hrm, any easy way to check if a package is in the archive without having apt handy? [10:22] http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists has wanna-build dumps [10:22] and the log files are under buildLogs/.... [10:22] is there a list of all existing ubuntu maintainers? [10:23] doogie: dunno if that's on the wiki yet or not [10:23] why would it be on a wiki? [10:23] because everything else is? [10:23] we have nowhere else convenient to put it :) [10:24] link from the website? === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [10:25] the wiki is where we do this sort of thing [10:32] chrisa: the w-b output is, of course, by source package [10:33] lamont: http://amu.debian.net/tmp/linux.png [10:35] amu: ew [10:35] did anyone see my mail to ubuntu-users? === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont considers the day when his mail server won't require a keyboard === Kamion gets in touch with Keybuk; I'll take care of the u-a upload, since I now know what to do [10:40] how about a minimum system req faq entry === Kamion promises not to fall victim to the ubuntu-artwork falling-asleep curse :) [10:40] About the Wiki: can I make hierarchical wiki links in this MoinMoin? If yes, what is the syntax? [10:41] enrico: you can make pages with /'s in them [10:41] mako: So, a link like Foo/Bar will work and be regognized? [10:41] enrico: yes, if you do the link specification stuff [10:42] mako: k, thanks! [10:42] So if ubuntu took a snapshot of sid to start out before applying package modifications and such, how are credits with the original debian package maintainers handled? [10:43] chrisa: can you clarify what you mean? [10:46] Kamion: I think I answered my own question by looking in the buildd logs. I was curious how the Maintainer: field was being handled on packages taken from sid [10:47] Looks like Warty/${ARCH} Build Daemon becomes the maintainer [10:49] chrisa: see also the Maintainer field on any non-maintainer-uploaded arch in debian [10:49] lamont: yeah, that was silly of me [10:50] chrisa: not quite ... [10:50] chrisa: Maintainer: in debian/control != Maintainer: in .changes files [10:50] chrisa: we leave the former alone [10:50] Kamion: As lamont pointed out, I misread ;) [10:50] chrisa: the latter always refers to the entity handling the upload, not the package maintainer [10:50] ok :) [10:51] So 'technically' I maintain some ubuntu packages till someone else updates them ;) [10:51] chrisa: even then, you maintain them. [10:52] ubuntu doesn't really have a concept of an individual owning a piece of codde [10:52] we add ourselves to the top of debian/changelog, so Changed-By: differs, but apart from that ... [10:52] hence we don't mess with debian/control's maintainer: field [10:52] Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how ubuntu snapshots sid then [10:53] we take a copy of all sid's source packages [10:53] chrisa: for warty, it was "take a snapshot of all the source packages, as of 2004-06-28. Now build them from source to produce binaries". === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:53] ah, so it's something that will occur again in the future === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:54] I was thinking it behaved more like a fork for some reason [10:54] well, hoary needs to take the latest sid + warty diffs. the best technical/time-effective way to do that is still the subject of a little discussion [10:55] Last stupid question, is multiverse part of universe? [10:55] so the base for release N is current sid, with the diffs from release N-1 merged in. [10:55] multiverse is beyond universe [10:55] lamont: That clears that up, thanks [10:55] thank you Robert A Heinlein. [10:55] multiverse was the term he coined to include a multitude of universes. [10:56] so universe is the rest of debian main, multiverse contains things from contrib & non-free, and possibly others [10:56] So for instance, the recent mplayer upload is in multiverse [10:57] for instance. [10:57] BUGGER [10:57] thom: around? need help uploading [10:57] Kamion: um? [10:57] thom: there's a half-complete copy of ubuntu-artwork in the upload queue, which I can't overwrite [10:58] k, just gonna delete the lot [10:58] gone [10:59] Kamion / lamont: thanks [10:59] thom: thanks [10:59] hooray [10:59] sabdfl: new artwork uploaded and hopefully building [10:59] chrisa: np [10:59] Kamion: whoop! thanks [11:00] Kamion: aha, thanks [11:00] Kamion: and you made the :00 cutoff, too. [11:00] looks like scott uploaded a deb as well, and that make katie throw her toys out of the pram [11:00] w00t [11:01] thom: ah ... that explains it [11:01] uh, s/make/made [11:01] me spoke english real good. can do tenses [11:01] you it learn from a book! [11:02] thom: tentses [11:02] rjk: are you getting bored of filling in all the sections of [11:02] Component Build mails? ;-) [11:02] i find your use of the present tense puzzling [11:02] Oh dear. Which tenses do you know? === __daniel laugh hardly [11:02] lamont: are those like toeses? [11:02] thom: you sleeps in tentses [11:02] you stands on toeses [11:02] Kamion: *giggle* [11:03] Kamion: lol [11:04] What installation methods are supported for Ubuntu? From CD, from Network, from USB key, from floppy, from magnetic tape, from windows installshield and... ? [11:05] enrico: CD, network, and we sort of support cross-installing from another Unix system with debootstrap [11:05] USB key definitely for Hoary, maybe floppy too [11:06] Kamion: "sort of support" means that it shouldn't be documented, I guess? [11:06] well, no, I believe it works and the documentation is useful [11:06] there's no time to change the installation manual further for warty, BTW [11:07] Kamion: don't worry, I'm not going to do that [11:07] it's part of the debian-installer package, and rebuilding that is human-time-expensive [11:07] Kamion: I was just taking notes for a quickstart guide [11:07] Kamion: that can reference the install guide for more info [11:07] when I say "sort of support" I just mean that I haven't tested it all the way through to bringing up an Ubuntu desktop [11:07] the first stage certainly works [11:08] it may require tweaking post-install, though, since it won't do everything that our d-i does. [11:08] thom: do you have any idea about the firefox/j2sdk questions being asked on #ubuntu? [11:09] Kamion: I'll leave out the debootstrap for those notes, then. The idea (as I posted to the list) is to have a quickstart that guides you all the way to subscribing to ubuntu-users, or ubuntu-welcome if we want [11:09] lamont: your mail's made it through now [11:09] enrico: we already have one of those, on the web site [11:09] Kamion: Plus a troubleshooting part [11:09] crud, the installer didn't recognize any of the partitions on my WD 120GB drive (showed it as one volume, no partitions) [11:09] Kamion: link? [11:09] There goes that idea [11:09] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-i386 [11:09] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-amd64 [11:09] Kamion: amazing what plugging in a keyboard will do for that server. :( [11:09] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-powerpc [11:09] Kamion: thanks! [11:10] <__daniel> Kamion, someone in ubuntu-de said it didn't countain libjavaplugin_oji.so - but he maybe was referring to another java thingie [11:10] <__daniel> Kamion, which package were you talking about? [11:10] enrico: it's not quite as far as you mentioned, but it's clearly the document where that sort of thing should live [11:10] __daniel: I don't know anything about this, I was just asking thom about it since he did most of our recent firefox work [11:11] Kamion: are we waiting for u-artwork to build, currently? [11:11] <__daniel> Kamion: right, i'll just ask the guy again [11:11] Kamion: are those pages modifiable? [11:12] mdz: yep [11:12] enrico: don't know, to be honest; I'd talk to silbs/lu when they're around, or mail ubuntu-devel@ [11:12] Kamion: well-rested, I hope? :-) [11:13] Kamion: ok, thanks, I'll write to the list [11:13] mdz: does five hours sleep last night count? [11:13] Kamion: no [11:13] Kamion: feel like a nap? could be a long night [11:14] I suspect I will try to grab some tonight rather than do the all-nighter thing again [11:14] do we have a target for the launch time? [11:14] Kamion: not on #ubuntu [11:14] ah [11:14] Kamion: afaik, you need a j2re, which should contain the plugin [11:15] then you need to smack that into /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins or similar [11:15] <__daniel> Kamion, he didn't download a .deb - so it couldn't work [11:15] just asking him about plugins now [11:16] <__daniel> (because it didnt contain the plugin thingie) [11:16] note i've never done it [11:16] i've had quite enough java contamination from sys admin work, no need for more on my desktop :-) [11:17] mdz: I will need to be away tonight from ~1630 until 2200 local time (MDT/-0600), although I may be able to skip out on the last half of that. Beyond that, I figure I'm around all night. [11:18] does anyone know a working email addy for michael vogt? (pm) [11:20] Mitario: Michael Vogt === __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-020-049.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nasdaq4088 [sdfsd@tkp-ip-nas-1-p230.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:39] Kamion: new ubuntu-artwork is in [11:39] I was just about to check that [11:40] <__daniel> good night [11:40] am I OK to start the CD build? === __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"] [11:42] Kamion: yes [11:42] alrighty, they're on their way [11:42] hold on [11:42] uh? [11:42] only uploading it now [11:42] what? [11:42] jdub woke up? [11:43] i'm uploading all the artwork packages atm [11:43] jdub: hold on [11:43] jdub: we already uploaded an ubuntu-artwork with the new images as best we could, you'll need to sync with those [11:43] jdub: an ubuntu-artwork has already been uploaded [11:43] oh [11:43] am I to ctrl-C this build? [11:43] hold your fire [11:43] Kamion: nah [11:43] no harm in having a fresh build [11:44] I don't mind if something supersedes that, but we needed to get something into the archive and didn't know when you'd be around [11:44] heh, morning .au time doesn't sound unlikely ;) [11:44] we're already two or three hours behind the time this build was supposed to be ready [11:46] anyway, Keybuk did these packages, but he's gone to sleep now; is more tweaking still required? [11:47] well, i consider these the gold release versions [11:47] ok [11:48] I'm off to Kirsten's for a little bit, will be back by the time the new packages are in the archive === T-Gone is now known as T-Bone [11:49] speaking of artwork... [11:49] jdub: any more changes for liveCD grub? [11:50] lamont: how did it look? [11:50] likewise, clues on how to replace the gnome footprint with somethign else? [11:50] oh, stupid arrow bars [11:50] which one? [11:50] jdub: did you mean for the virtical bars to be multicolored? [11:50] no [11:50] people.u.o/~lamont/jdub-grub.jpg [11:51] yeah, saw earlier [11:51] it uses the scrollbar arrows for the bar for some reason [11:51] but it's in the same format as the morphix one [11:52] looks OK to me... [11:53] with that arrow problem, it's bong [11:53] gnome splash == the one that says "gnome 2.8" with a footprint, or has the ubuntu logo covering the blonde... [11:53] that splash [11:54] if that is still appearing on the livecd, we have a problem [11:55] the one on the livecd says "gnome2.8" [11:55] which is still a problem, of course. [11:55] because gnome-session's gconf schema defaults to the u-a symlink [11:56] what does 'grep -A 3 splash_image /etc/gconf/schemas/gnome-session.schemas' say on the livecd? [11:56] booting [11:57] also, still have the globe in the center of the screen shot for the boot splash. [11:57] ugh