=== sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Skif [~emschwar@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Skif [~emschwar@] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Client]
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Safari_Al [~tr@ppp139-87.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Safari_Al [~tr@ppp139-87.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== tbw [asdfasdf@port14.cvx2-ejb.ppp.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Keybuk] : Technical Board Meeting 1600UTC Today: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
=== tbw [asdfasdf@port14.cvx2-ejb.ppp.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== T-Bone [varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
pittiHi sabdfl06:04
Keybuk(I'll be about 2 minutes)06:04
fabbionehi everybody06:04
sabdflhey everyone06:05
=== silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflmdz around?06:05
pittisabdfl: yes, in #u-devel06:06
sabdfljust pinged him06:06
sabdflwho else do we need? kamion?06:06
pittime too :-)06:06
fabbioneelmo perhaps?06:06
sabdflKeybuk: ?06:07
=== hhqw [asdfasdf@port9.cvx1-ejb.ppp.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflKeybuk: ready?06:08
=== Keybuk is running massively behind today; haggai popped in for half an hour and stayed for four :)
=== sabdfl is running massively behind today. tla and postgres and make on macosx :-)
sabdflmdz: set?06:09
sabdflok, warty status matt?06:09
mdzlooks like no new critical bugs were opened while I slept, so currently we are still in release condition as far as bugs06:10
mdzKamion: the archive-copier changes went in last night as well?06:10
mdzI haven't been able to check in with jdub since going to sleep last night, so I'm not sure about the status of his work06:10
sabdflfrom my side, waiting only for new artowrk packages from jdub06:11
mdzlamont produced a working live CD at the data center06:11
mdzI downloaded it and used it06:11
sabdflnetwork, apps?06:11
pittimdz: I checked today's ppc image, archive-copier and stuff was okay06:11
fabbionesabdfl: yeps.. tested here too06:11
mdztested network connectivity, firefox, openoffice, etc.06:11
mdzfor some reason my sound came up muted06:11
mdzwireless was detected and the driver loaded06:11
sabdflif we have to tweak live cd, does it involve package tweaks or is it all behind the scenes?06:12
mdzfabbione: was your sound muted?06:12
mdzsabdfl: in this case, we had to remove something06:12
Kamionmdz: yes, today's CD seems to work with it06:12
fabbionemdz: i don't have any speakers yet sorry06:12
fabbionemdz: they are still packed and they will be for a long while06:12
mdzsabdfl: the entire desktop set + the winfoss stuff was > 650M06:12
mdzjust by a hair, but still over06:12
sabdflreason for asking is if we can release tomorrow for install, and put out an rc livecd06:12
silbslamont knows 3-4 issues (including sound) w/ live cd06:12
mdzsabdfl: if we could remove one of the winfoss apps, we could restore the font package we removed06:12
sabdfllamont asked and i though we should drop a windows package rather than compromise warty06:13
mdzsabdfl: agreed, but I didn't want to do that without asking you06:13
mdzok, let's drop that astronomical program06:13
sabdflare the live cd issues fixable without package uploads?06:13
sabdflin other words, can we consider the packages final for release?06:13
sabdflare the fixes in the underlying layer?06:14
mdzI haven't caught up with lamont yet this morning, so I'm not sure what the issues are06:14
mdzI'll follow up after the meeting06:14
silbs1) artwork will change06:14
silbs(16:20:56) lamont: 2) sound is busted some places (due to differences in hwdetection between morphix kernel and ubuntu...)06:14
silbs3 was the space thing and 4 is 4) other hardware detection inconsistencies between live and install CD's exist.06:14
mdz2) lamont said alex fixed06:14
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdfldon't think we can do anything further about hw detection inconsistencies06:15
mdz4) is a known issue we must live with for warty06:15
mdzit's a hoary goal to make it consistent across the board06:15
=== amu [~amu@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflwe knew warty wouldn't have perfect consistency06:15
mdzlamont: you said alex fixed the order of sound device detection, right?06:15
sabdflso i don't think should hold back the release06:15
mdzwe can't call the packages final until we have final artwork, since that's in packaged form06:15
lamontmdz: he said he reveresed it, but didn't have a 2-sound system to check against.06:15
mdzlamont: give me a URL and I'll start downloading now06:16
lamontsound is still unhappy on my vaio06:16
lamont  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386.iso.torrent06:16
lamontOr, if you can't use bit torrent, the actual iso is at:06:16
lamont  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386.iso06:16
mdzok, will test when I have it06:16
lamontbuilding a new CD image +ttf-baekmuk -windoze.celestia06:16
mdzlamont: that still fits, right?06:17
sabdflmdz: yes, but do the live cd changes also require package changes, or is it just the autobuilder that changes?06:17
lamontshould.  that's what I'm verifying06:17
amulooks like the problem is desktop <-> laptop systems based, i tested it today on 4 differnt systems, on laptops it fails on desktops sound works06:17
mdzsabdfl: the remaining changes are artwork (which requires package changes AND build system changes, I believe) and the changes lamont is doing right now (which are purely build system changes)06:17
lamontsabdfl: sorry that was to mdz. liveCD changes require (maybe) syncing the local mirror, and then turning the crank again06:17
lamontmdz: artwork --> package change, sync new packages into the right place, turn crank06:18
mdzlamont: you don't need to drop the splash image into place?06:18
mdzor the grub image?06:18
Kamionlamont: are you building locally now or in the LAN?06:18
lamontthat's the package that has to get sync'ed/06:18
sabdflok, but fixing sound, hw sync etc, that's an autobuilder change, not a package change?06:18
lamontKamion: building home-edition right now, if it fits, I'll build the DC-edition06:18
Kamionlamont: 'kay06:18
sabdfl"ubuntu, the colorado hills edition"06:19
sabdfl"live, from colorado"06:19
lamontfixing sound/hw detection is possibly a major overhaul of morphix06:19
lamontworst case, sound is a user-obvious case of the hw detection not meshing.06:19
mdzunfortunately, users will judge Ubuntu hardware detection based on the live CD06:19
lamontwe tried the trivial workaround for that case in the current CD.06:20
mdzeven though they're completely different06:20
lamontmdz: very true06:20
sabdflhoary will be better, right amu?06:20
mdzamu: in my case, it was simply that the sound devices were found in the opposite order06:20
mdzon my laptop06:20
mdzsince it has a modem06:20
sabdflok, artwork06:20
sabdfldid anyone hear anything from jeff today?06:21
lamontfor hoary, since we already have all the autodetection in our kernel/X/whatever, it probably makes sense to just roll the morphix patches over and include things that way, I would think... dunno.06:21
sabdfli saw a note about him going to a meeting06:21
amusabdfl: i'm sure, with this manpower we reach asap world domination  06:21
sabdfl9am aussie time06:21
sabdflbut nothing fter that06:21
lamontbtw, this liveCD has the latest grub screen from jdub06:21
Keybukhe was off to a presentation of some kind this morning (UK)06:22
amumdz: I didnt tested why, i tested more basic things, works/works not   06:22
lamontamu: much of your list was "not for warty" stuff, sadly.06:22
sabdflwe either have to build a new set of packages based on what jdub last pushed out, or wait for him, or call him at home06:23
amulamont: ... i tested it from a view a user, which is imported for a user, in order to do his dayly work with it06:23
sabdfli'd really like to have a final build tonight06:23
mdzwe should call him06:23
sabdflso we can get it mirrored ut06:23
mdzit's only 0230 or so, no? :-)06:23
Keybukdescent scott% TZ=Australia/Sydney date06:23
KeybukWed Oct 20 02:23:51 EST 200406:23
Kamionlet's wake him up if he's asleep06:24
lamontamu: understood06:24
Kamionhe should be awake anyway :)06:24
mdzhe did know that we wanted to do a build soon06:24
fabbioneKamion: eheh06:24
Kamionmdz: we can push stuff like jigit in post-CD-build, right?06:24
amusabdfl: should be possible06:24
Kamionsince it's Supported, not Base/Desktop/Ship06:24
mdzKamion: into the archive?06:24
sabdflno answer06:24
Kamionmdz: yes06:24
sabdflhow will we deal with the flood of "please get xyz version x..z into universe, it fixes a ton of bugs" requests?06:25
mdzsabdfl: "use hoary"?06:25
lamontsabdfl: will sync for hoary, I imagine...06:25
Keybukare we intending to update universe?  I assumed that would be frozen like supported06:25
mdzKeybuk: correct06:26
lamontfreeze the whole thing06:26
Keybukso yeah, mdz++06:26
mdzwe've been very flexible with updating universe stuff up until now06:26
sabdflduring hoary's freeze, can we setup a process for the community to nominate and approve syncs without affecting the core team?06:26
mdzbut we do have to call an end to it06:26
mdzsabdfl: hmm, could work06:26
mdzfor universe06:26
sabdflthe "universe team"06:26
mdz"masters of the universe"06:26
sabdflas long as they are sane and sensible, they could, erm rule the universe06:26
lamontsabdfl: on the "should you care" front, much of multiverse is d-w j2sdk1.[34] 06:27
=== Keybuk mops the tea from his monitor
fabbionei am afraid that will give buildd (and lamont) a lot of headackes to unfuck *06:27
=== sivang [~sg@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdfllamont: and in english?06:27
sivanghowdy folks06:27
lamontlots of multiverse ain't built since we ain't got no java in multiverse06:27
mdzsabdfl: lacking java06:27
lamontoh wait. that was 'merican.06:27
mdzfabbione: build failures will be the responsibility of the universe guys06:27
lamontbut warty remains warty.  bug fixes for universe go into hoary.06:28
amupackages: evolution, well it has some nice feature like spamchecks or groupware, outlookplugins, i think we should add those depends06:28
fabbionemdz: i am more afraid of something that builds and kill the rest of universe06:28
sabdfljust trying jdub's mobile06:28
mdzfabbione: also their problem06:28
mdzthis is what it means for universe to be community supported06:29
sabdflok, let's move on06:29
fabbionemdz: in theory it works perfectly.. let's see how it goes in reality :-)06:29
sabdflHoary starter plans06:29
Keybukthat was mine, I think06:30
mdzI estimate we have a solid few weeks of work for the review and merge process06:30
Keybuk*swaps hats*06:30
sabdflKeybuk: hct status?06:30
Keybukwhat I was going to offer, for the review/merge process was setting up a temporary arch repository06:30
Keybukimport debian from warty freeze to current day into that06:30
mdzthat includes a lot of stuff that we can't really automate, even with hct06:30
Keybukimport warty into that06:30
Keybukthat'll give us an easy merge to create hoary06:31
mdzwe need to check which bugs have been fixed, even if they were done in a different way06:31
sabdfl"easy merge"?06:31
Keybuksabdfl: hct is good, but without any arch imports it's not useful06:31
Keybuksabdfl: well, I can do an hct tablecloth-trick (jdub's name :p) on it06:31
sabdflhow many packages did we touch for warty?06:31
Kamionfwiw I'm happy to merge d-i by hand; estimate about a week ...06:31
Keybuksabdfl: many. many. many.06:31
sabdflabout 340 right?06:32
mdzsabdfl: at last count06:32
mdzthat figure has only increased since06:32
sabdflone option is to put the new things into hoary only06:32
sabdfllike x.org06:32
sabdflgnome 2.906:32
Keybukwe can use hct to do the difficult bit, but as a general-use tool it's still waiting on those bloody imports :-(06:32
mdz1018 source packages06:32
sabdflstuff where we are really the head06:32
mdz356 with ubuntu version numbers06:32
mdzso about 35%06:33
sabdfland the number will only go up for hoary06:33
Keybukwhat do we do with the rest of the packages?06:33
sabdfl(btw fantastic job warty team)06:33
pittisabdfl: well, much stuff was sent upstream06:33
mdzpitti: yes, but we have no record of what was merged and what was not06:33
elmoI see more like 500 with ubuntu version numbers, including all components06:33
sabdflpitti: yes, but a ton of stuff wasn't06:33
mdzand we have many changes which were not appropriate for upstream06:33
fabbionesabdfl: for x.org i need xfree86 too. that's not really an option06:33
pittino, unfortunately not in an automated way06:33
mdzelmo: I was only looking at main06:33
sabdflfabbione: so manage the transition?06:34
mdzelmo has said it is no problem to set things up so that we automatically sync stuff that doesn't have an ubuntu version number06:34
fabbionesabdfl: in terms of code we have 300K lines of patches from Xfree86 that needs to be reviewed to go into X.org06:34
mdzthen we merge the remainder by hand06:34
fabbionesabdfl: that's just "upstream" transition06:34
sabdflis that likely to lead to real breakage in dependencies?06:34
fabbionesabdfl: without taking into account all the packaging part06:34
mdzfabbione: daniel mentioned that 300k number as well; where does that come from?06:35
sabdflsince the packages we touched hardest are probably also most central?06:35
mdzthere are less than 300k lines of patches in debian/patches06:35
mdzabout half that06:35
elmoyeah, it's 492 including non-main components.. wonder why we ended up modifying so many non-main things06:35
fabbionemdz: wc -l debian/patches/*06:35
mdzsabdfl: yes, there will be dependency breakage06:35
mdzelmo: libtiff transition in universe, etc.06:35
elmoah, right06:35
Keybukelmo: lamont had a build-dep mania one day06:35
mdzfabbione: diffstat debian/patches/*06:35
sabdflok... this isn't an area where i can lead guys, you know best06:35
Kamionmdz: that will certainly result in much temporary breakage in d-i, but I think that's fine for hoary TBH06:35
mdzsabdfl: the issue is that we have a ton of work to do before hoary can really start to flow06:35
mdzsabdfl: which doesn't give us a break after the release at all06:35
Keybukwe have a semi-automatic solution that might work for everything we're not leading06:36
Kamionit'll take a few days to make d-i work for hoary anyway, for one reason or another06:36
sabdflteam deserves a break06:36
Keybukthings like gnome we're leading Debian anyway06:36
=== lamont must take a break post release, or find a new wife and a way to pay for the old one.
mdzKeybuk: the semi-automation is not dependent on imports?06:36
Kamion$ ls src/ubuntu | wc -l06:36
sabdflKeybuk: what's the status on the imports? lifeless told me we were on our way06:36
Keybukmdz: only package imports and I can do those and throw them away afterwards06:37
Keybuksabdfl: well, arch.ubuntu.com hasn't changed in three weeks06:37
Kamionguess about half of those belong to me to merge06:37
T-Bonelamont: lol06:37
mdzwe should do a manual review up front, before trying anything fancy06:37
sabdflok, i'll chase lifeless on the arch merge front06:38
mdzwe can probably eliminate 25-50% of those packages because everything has been merged upstream06:38
sabdflhave mostly been focused on malone06:38
mdzbased on changelogs06:38
Kamionmdz: hardest work will be stuff that's been branded, for sure06:38
fabbionemdz:  1499 files changed, 161366 insertions(+), 67008 deletions(-)06:38
mdzKamion: agreed06:38
sabdflare our own patches clearly separated?06:38
Kamionsabdfl: depends06:38
mdzsabdfl: only in a subset of cases06:38
Kamionsabdfl: you can't clearly separate patches to .po files and stay sane at the same time06:38
sabdflso are you guys READY for tla?06:38
mdzsabdfl: no06:39
Keybukpatches to .po files are evil :-(06:39
sabdflKamion: right06:39
mdzrather, tla is not ready for us06:39
sabdflrosetta :-)06:39
fabbionesabdfl: no for X.org06:39
Kamionsabdfl: yes, but even so06:39
sabdfltla isn't going to improve soon06:39
sabdflwe have an arch team drill for two weeks before es-conf06:39
sabdflbut that's jsut where we will set the goals for usability06:39
mdzit would be much less work to bring the patches forward manually than to get up to speed with tla06:39
mdzeveryone would take 30 packages06:40
=== Kamion is happy to use tla in a subset of cases, but wants to have a Plan B
sabdflthe launchpad team has really battled with tla, and it's certianly not something i'm comfortable recommending for global FLOSS use06:40
mdzwith any luck, 10 of those would be simple changelog review and revert to Debian06:40
sabdflat the same time, it's proven fantastic when it works06:40
Keybuksabdfl: did you read mako's blog entry?06:40
sabdflnope, url?06:40
mdzthat's not a huge amount of work for each of us06:40
Kamion(er, when I say tla I mean raw/hct/whatever)06:40
Kamionmdz: I think we could crunch through nearly everything in a week, personally06:40
mdzKamion: we need to pace ourselves :-)06:41
Kamiona week of fairly solid work, but I don't think it'll be terribly *hard* work06:41
sabdflor planet.ubuntu.com06:41
sabdflyes, very well put06:41
fabbioneKamion: i agree..a lot of our local patches have been included in debian06:41
sabdflthe main issue is not that we can crunch through it, it's that sustaining the delta manually is just going to be "make work" without good tools06:41
Kamionand the packages we've changed are all hopefully packages we've become familiar with06:41
sabdflat least that's how it seems to me, but you guys would know better06:42
fabbionemdz: pace? i wake up in the middle of the night yelling X.org :)06:42
Keybukheh, I had a dream the other night in which everyone was a changeset and all trying to get through a single door06:42
amulamont: pay for the old one ? a easy solution, poison her, you go into prison and you have all day time for hacking 06:42
mdzsabdfl: that is correct06:42
mdzbut the tools simply aren't ready yet06:42
Kamionsabdfl: that's true, but at the same time our feature goals for hoary are such that we need to have a place to put interim work on them fairly soon, without losing too much time with the tools06:42
Kamionseems to me bringing up the toolset would be better done in the middle of a release cycle, where it can be more easily parallelised?06:42
mdzwe can create a simple source-package-merge tool which can automate the cases where there are no conflicts06:42
mdzthat's not hard06:43
mdzwe can set up a notification system whenever a new merge is needed06:43
sabdflone option is just to ignore it till we freeze hoary06:43
sabdflbecause at least then the targete isn't moving so fast06:43
sabdflso, start work on all the new things for hoary06:44
sabdflpush upstream as much as possible06:44
mdzyou mean, ignore merging new stuff from Debian?06:44
sabdflno, other way around06:44
Keybukmdz: Debian hasn't moved a *huge* amount yet06:44
sabdflignore bringing forward warty stuff06:44
mdzKeybuk: the RC bugs we've seen fly by say otherwise :-/06:44
mdzsabdfl: I don't think we can do that06:44
mdzthat would revert all of our branding, all of our bug fixes, everything we've done to make things work right06:45
mdzthe merge will only get more difficult as time goes on06:45
sabdfli'm just wondering whether it's more work to port it forward and then keep it merged as debian updates before we freeze06:45
mdzthe right time to do it is immediately when hoary opens06:45
sabdflor bring it forward when we freeze06:45
sabdflbut then we have to merge every time the relevant debian package updates06:45
Kamionin my experience, repeated small merges are less work06:46
mdzKamion: agreed06:46
pittiKamion: agreed06:46
sabdfloh, ok06:46
mdzsabdfl: yes, but they're small, easy merges generally06:46
KeybukKamion++, keep the merges small06:46
fabbioneKamion: agreed!06:46
Kamionone big merge just becomes unintelligible and you end up breaking it down into repeated small merges anyway06:46
Keybukelmo: ping?06:46
sabdflwell, lots of merge work for the hoary team will make them expert endusers for hct when it comes :-)06:46
Keybukelmo: is there any way you can make the warty morgue available ?06:47
mdzwe should schedule a Hoary kickoff meeting06:47
elmoKeybuk: it already is on rookery06:47
mdzthat will include reviewing the list of potential feature goals, deciding what we can actually do for hoary, and breaking down tasks06:47
elmolast updated a week or so ago06:47
Kamionmdz: Thursday for sleep, Friday for meetings? :)06:47
Keybukelmo: rookery doesn't have much on it though (like tla :p)06:47
mdzKamion: thursday-sunday sleep, monday meeting?06:47
Keybukand is rookery caneable?06:48
fabbionemdz: no later that 14:00 UTC please :-) or my future wife will hunt you down :P06:48
sabdflmdz: i figure you and the team will make the best call on merge strategy06:48
sabdflplease push the arch team to make arch suit YOU, not the other way around06:49
pittiadapt the problem to the solution :-)06:49
mdzsabdfl: yes, I have no problem with the strategy, only the fact that we don't have time to breathe between releasing warty and opening hoary06:49
mdzbecause opening hoary requires the huge merge effort06:49
sabdfli think give your team the break06:49
pittibut we can take our time for it, right?06:49
sabdfllet's spend some time thinking about what we want in hoary06:49
mdzfabbione: that's 0700 here, which causes problems for MY home life :-)06:49
sabdflthe merge will go much faster if we have exciting goals for hoary06:49
mdzsabdfl: so, announce that hoary will remain more or less equal to Warty for a week or so?06:49
sabdfli'm asolutely fine with that06:50
mdzok, works for me06:50
sabdflthe warty team has put in a superhuman effort06:50
mdzthey're chomping at the bit, but they'll survive for a week I think06:50
pittiI thought we sync all unmodified packages?06:50
sabdflthe last few days should have been a slight break since we were in such deep freeze06:50
mdzpitti: I don't think we should do that until we've reviewed the modified ones06:50
mdzotherwise we're likely to break deps all over the place06:50
sabdflbut everyone needs a proper release06:50
pittimdz: we could employ the sarge testing scripts to check that deps don't break06:50
elmomdz: that'll at least warn people hoary is a devel branch ;)06:50
sabdflok, so let's talk about the non-merge challenges for hoary06:51
Kamionpitti: we're already running them in report-only mode06:51
pittiso much the better06:51
Kamionpitti: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/testing/06:51
mdzI'd like to discuss the feature goals at the hoary kickoff meeting when everyone is around06:51
pittiKamion: so would it be possible to sync all packages that don't conflict to anything?06:51
fabbionemdz: daniels and I will be busy on the X-Man meeting from the 1st of Nov.06:51
sabdflok, i'm more interested in discussing how we organise it than what the goals are06:51
fabbionemdz: for 2 full weeks06:51
mdzsabdfl: which aspects?06:51
Kamionpitti: I suspect that's more trouble than it's worth; sync 'em, let the team sort out the breakage06:51
sabdflwell, some of them are similar to warty06:52
pittiKamion: okay, agreed06:52
sabdfldebian sid + stability and security06:52
sabdflgnome 2.x06:52
pittiKamion: I don't feel that tooo much will break06:52
sabdflbut some are also whole chunks of brand new work06:52
pittiKamion: (as long as we don't sync older versions)06:52
sabdfland that's something we didnt do for warty06:52
sabdflnew apps and applets06:52
mdzwe did some smaller chunks of new work for warty06:52
sabdflbut much of that was opportunistic06:53
sabdflwhich is easier to manage06:53
sabdfli prefer to work opportunitically, frankly06:53
sabdflbut for hoary we have set some goals06:53
mdzfor hoary, I think we'll trim down the list of feature goals to a subset which is achievable for hoary06:53
mdzand build a small team for each06:53
sabdfleither way, i think we'll find that the goals will fall on the floor if we don't start early06:53
sabdflassign each goal to someone06:53
mdzthere are a number of community members who are interested in working on the feature goals06:54
Kamionit'll be an interesting exercise in the first month or so discovering how much of what we've set ourselves is achievable; we haven't settled into time estimation yet really06:54
sabdflor put a reasonable bounty on it06:54
sabdflKamion: agreed06:54
sabdflit's that new aspect of things that i'm concerned about06:54
sabdflwe can do it06:54
mdzKamion: as far as I'm concerned, everything on the page now is just brainstorming06:54
mdzwe'll choose from that what we can actually do06:54
sabdflbut it's a new management thing06:54
sabdflmdz: agreed, it's a wiki after all06:54
mdzmuch of it will fall to grumpy06:54
sabdflestimating is very hard to do06:55
sabdfli'd like to identify the things that are absolutely core and have our team do those06:55
pittihmm, IMHO the most important Hoary goal is using the new infrastructure06:55
sabdfleverything else is nice-to-have and we put a bounty on it and try to steer the community in that direction06:55
sabdflpitti: launchpad?06:55
pittisabdfl: yes06:55
mdzcurrent hoary feature freeze is February 7th06:55
pittisabdfl: hct, arch, and this magic06:55
lamontmdz: +ttf-baekmuk - windoze.celestia ==> 329950 extents written (644 MB)06:55
sabdflwe'll have soyuz up and running in a week or two in view mode06:55
Kamionpitti: I tend to feel that the most important Hoary goal is to release in April :-) We need to convince the community that we can do this six-month release thing ...06:56
sabdflmalone sooner06:56
sabdflKamion: i agree06:56
pittiKamion: okay :-)06:56
mdzso we will need to select goals where primary development can be complete in ~3 months06:56
sabdflthat's why i was relaxed about the merging06:56
KeybukKamion++ totally06:56
sabdfli'd almost like to get everyone excited about new feature goals and give people time to explore those06:56
Keybukthe most important thing for hoary is to nail the release datae06:56
sabdfli don't want to be in the same situation we were in at oxford06:57
pittiKeybuk: I took this for granted 06:57
mdzwell, if we need to drop a new feature because it isn't ready, we can do that06:57
sabdflwith exciting new features creeping in very close to final freeze06:57
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Keybuksabdfl: fortunately December isn't close to freeze, it's actually a good time for development madness06:57
sabdflso, for example, bzip should go in NOW06:57
sabdflso we have time to tweak and tune06:57
Keybuksabdfl: can I clear a day for that?06:58
mdzKeybuk: yes, the schedule meshes much better now06:58
sabdflKeybuk: absoloodle06:58
elmoor decide that it's crack and not do it :P06:58
sabdflat the hoary launch meeting we can clarify all ofthis06:58
sabdflbut i wanted to describe the approach here06:58
mdzsabdfl: ok, so are you proposing that we isolate the core Hoary goals at this meeting?06:58
sabdflthis meeting now? no06:58
sabdfljust agree that we'll work hard on those new feature goals sooner rather than later06:59
sabdflotherwise they'll just fall on the floor06:59
sabdfland i agree with kamion06:59
mdzof course06:59
sabdflbetter to set the bar lower and hit the goal06:59
mdzit's juts that all of this is in direct conflict with giving the team a short break after release06:59
sabdflwell, change is a holiday :-)06:59
sabdflfor example, cleaning up that hoary list before the meeting will be relaxing06:59
sabdflgetting people to figure out what aspects they want to make personal goals07:00
pittisounds nice07:00
Keybuksabdfl: you find playing with that database schema from hell relaxing, though :)07:00
sabdflKeybuk: i don't pretend to be normal :-)07:00
KeybukI guess we should skip Hoary Release Plans until the meeting, seeing as the release manager's in bed ? :)07:01
sabdflhow effectively do you think we can get community interest in bounties up and running?07:01
mdzI think it's happening already, organically07:01
mdzI have several things queued up which could become hoary feature bounties07:01
sabdflfor example, if we publish a list of $100k's worth of bounties for hoary, are we likely to see interest?07:01
Keybukyeah, I think the interest is ramping07:01
sabdfli think we want to make them bounties, but with drop-dead dates07:02
sabdflso people feel an urgency to actually deliver early07:02
lamontand those dates are pre-freeze, yes?07:02
KeybukIf they're cool things, I'd be surprised if we didn't get any interest07:02
sabdflmy experience with bounties in the past is that the take-up is very haphazard07:02
mdzdeadlines like 2-4 weeks before feature freeze07:02
sabdflmdz: but with milestone drops sooner rather than later07:02
sabdflso maybe we say you can "stake a claim" to a bounty07:03
sabdflbut then you have to start producing code drops every two weeks07:03
lamontcould be first code drop is your stake?\07:03
sabdflso people don't just sit on them07:03
sabdfllamont: good idea07:03
sabdflbut people don't like to start work if they think someone else is already on it07:03
sabdflsimultaneously they dont actually work unless they think it could go to someone else07:04
mdzwe have a number of projects which are bigger than one person07:04
sabdflalso true07:04
mdzis there a way to make team-based bounties work?07:04
lamontright - just means that you have a 2 week window from ITP to first drop...07:04
sabdflmdz: yes i think so07:04
sabdflneed to appoint a team leader, and have them agree the rest07:04
sabdfli'll have another person in the office here from November 8th07:05
sabdflcan keep track of bounties07:05
sabdflso the admin should be straightforward07:05
silbsthey should name their own team leader, not us. We shouldn't care if it's 1 person or >107:05
lamontright - any bounty could subcontract parts of it.07:05
mdzsilbs: so our agreement would always be with one person, and if they divide things up as a team behind the scenes, that's their problem?07:05
sabdflok, anything else on how we'll organise ourselves for hoary?07:05
mdzwe need to review the release schedule, but that can happen at kickoff07:06
thommdz: that seems reasonable as long as they understand that07:06
silbsmdz: i think so. We don't want to be arbitrator of "X did more work than Y"07:06
sabdfljdub put a note on the wiki that he will review the hoary schedule07:06
sabdflbounties can be tricky07:06
sabdfli had two guys arguing over who's PyGTK Exim Monitor was better07:06
sabdflwe'll figure that stuff out07:07
Keybuksabdfl: before he does, it's worth finding out whether we want to tie it quite as closely to GNOME's as we did this time07:07
Keybukmdz had a minor stroke when he realised seb was putting 2.8.1 on RC day07:07
sabdflKeybuk, mdz, any reason not to tie to gnome?07:07
mdzsabdfl: we need a buffer07:07
sabdfli think we should plan to make our preview on gnome 2.1007:07
mdzwe can't have new upstream releases going in an hour before we roll the release07:07
sabdfland our release gnome 2.10.1 + x days07:07
sabdflmdz: we CAN, it's just not sensible ;-)07:08
mdzfor warty, it has actually interfered with building the CD images07:08
mdzwe need +1 day at least07:08
sabdflhow many days are a sane pressure release?07:08
Keybukhow many days of testng do we need before we're happy to begin rolling things?07:08
fabbionesabdfl, mdz: we also need to kill the overlap between releasing stable and the first CD of the next release07:08
sabdflfabbione: yes, agreed07:08
mdzthe GNOME point releases are generally very sane07:08
mdzwe just need to avoid having the stuff happen at exactly the same time07:09
sabdflwill we start grumpy rolling when we freeze hoary?07:09
mdz3 days should be fine07:09
mdzsabdfl: not unless we have automated merge capability07:09
mdzwe can't divert effort to manual merging at that time07:09
sabdflok, so plan for preview on gnome 2.10, final on gnome 2.10.1+3d07:09
sabdflmdz: yes, agreed07:09
mdzKeybuk: 27 December?07:09
sabdflwhat date is that currently?07:09
sabdflmdz: stop doing that, it freaks me out07:10
mdzsabdfl: ^^07:10
Keybukmdz: what's 27th December ?07:10
mdzKeybuk: upstream version freeze07:10
pittifeature freeze?07:10
Keybukmy stuff will be ready well before then, the arch import team need a Saturn V up their arse though to get them moving :p07:10
sabdflKeybuk: incoming07:11
mdzupstream freeze is probably the earliest we would want to do it07:11
mdzwe should "encourage" folks to stick with hoary for as long as possible, to get testing07:11
Keybuksabdfl: incoming to where?07:11
sabdflhmm... perhaps we could create a grumpy team07:11
sabdflthat uses hct to do the merging07:12
sabdflwhile we keep working on hoary07:12
fabbionesabdfl, mdz: opening grumpy when we release RC should be ok i think..07:12
sabdfli envisage in future we'll have a "stable" team of two or three that keeps working on warty, say07:12
mdzfabbione: that's far too late in my opinion07:12
sabdflso there could be an advance guard and a rearguard07:12
sabdfli wouldn't want to distract the core team with the merge issues07:13
sabdflanyhow, future problem07:13
sabdflnext on the agenda07:13
fabbionemdz: opening un unstable too early will take away the community from stable.07:13
sabdflpolicies and procedures for security07:13
mdzfor Warty07:13
KamionKeybuk: incoming> their arse, presumably? :)07:13
sivangsecurity team07:13
mdzelmo has begun setting up the infrastructure side of things07:13
sabdfltks elmo07:13
mdzwe need a security team and associated procedures07:13
mdzthe folks who have volunteered are: elmo, lamont, Kamion, fabbione, daniels07:14
pittime too07:14
mdz, pitti07:14
sivangme also07:14
mdz, sivang07:14
mdzthe original list was from Oxford07:14
T-Boneif i can help, assuming there are roles i can fit in ;)07:15
Keybuk(1,492 warty patches across 459 source packages, btw)07:15
mdzso of that list, who is still interested now that the time has come for hard work? :-)07:15
pittiwell, I did not know that there were so many interested people07:15
Kamionmdz: ayup07:15
fabbionemdz: yup07:15
pittiDo we actually need so many sec team members?07:15
mdzpitti: no, we do not07:15
lamontmdz: mark me down07:15
mdzI think we should have two people to start07:15
T-Bonemdz: doesn't that lower the amount of work on the global team?07:15
pittiI'm interested, but not if it gets too many07:16
sabdflwith one person leading07:16
mdzT-Bone: hmm?07:16
T-Bonemdz: having several team members07:16
T-Bone(sec team)07:16
Kamionthe people who've been doing security work so far should be first on the list ...07:16
mdzT-Bone: I propose two07:16
lamontT-Bone: with security,  not as much as you might think07:16
T-Bonelamont: ok07:16
=== T-Bone bows before lamont's words ;)
mdzfabio has already been doing security work with me07:16
elmotbh, I don't even remember volunteering, and have more than enough to do elsewhere.  so feel free to take me off the list07:16
fabbioneelmo: too late for you :P07:17
=== T-Bone sees the list getting down to 'none' ;)
lamontmdz: how close to debian practices are you planning to be?07:17
sabdflwhat about pitti leading, with t-bone?07:17
elmomdz: do you want to use the same kind of advisory format as Debian, or shall I disable that feature?07:17
sivangI am still interested in it, and already worked with pitti ;)07:18
T-Bonesabdfl: i'd rather be "backup" than anything else. ia64 is gonna take me time i guess ;)07:18
mdzelmo: in terms of the layout of the document, or having the list of packages and sums in it?07:18
sabdfli think it would be good to have a canonical person and someone from the community who's taking a more serious interest07:18
sabdfli could provide a small retainer for the volunteer07:18
makosabdfl: i think that would be ideal07:18
elmomdz: well, just having some sort of mail advisory where it'd be useful to have amber fill in the details that she can07:19
pittisabdfl: the most important thing is the team leader, to have sb who assures that things get done07:19
=== lamont has a strong interest in being actively involved on the team, at whatever level. Unfamiliar with the internal workings of debina sec-team, though.
mdzsabdfl: what is the status of malone for tracking warty security issues?07:19
pittisabdfl: he can assign tasks to members, but then the particular structure is not so important07:20
sabdflmdz: pretty good07:20
sabdflnot for high volume work07:20
sabdflthe ui is still crufty07:20
mdzsecurity should be a good beta07:20
sabdflbut we can assign a bug to multiple source packages07:20
mdzor alpha07:20
mdzit doesn't even need to be public initially07:20
sabdflit won't07:20
sabdflwe haven't planned the work to have hidden bugs though, so vendor-sec should be kept out of it if it's public07:21
mdzonce we have a stable release to point to, I am going to petition for us to be recognized by the security community and join vendor-sec07:21
sabdflthis week we are bringing up the email interface07:21
sabdfland also the ability to watch bugzilla07:21
lamontwould also be good to join first.org at that point07:21
mdzlamont: is first relevant?07:21
lamontit's more a community visibility thing with the irt's07:22
lamonthence "good to", rather than "should"07:22
amuwow 900$  07:24
mdzamu: hm?07:25
amufirst.org 07:25
amufirst's membership fee 07:25
sabdflok, we'll appoint a security team07:25
sabdflcanonical person leading07:25
sabdflpotentially a community member joining too07:25
=== fabbione votes for mdz
mdzsomeone who is not mdz07:26
=== sivang votes for pitti
sabdflwill require a review of credentials and community council signoff07:26
=== fabbione still votes for mdz
thommdz: your hat stand full?07:26
mdzthom: it's collapsing under the weight07:26
sabdflpitti: security is very sensitive, requires someone who we trust with our own reputation07:26
lamontmdz: get a taller one and walk up the wall??? :-)07:27
sabdflfabbione: mdz ain't eligible07:27
pittisabdfl: I'm still interested, but I might not have earned this after 6 weeks :-)07:27
sabdflmonica says07:27
fabbionesabdfl: but he is the one with biggest experience in it07:27
sabdflfabbione: agreed, the security team will report to mdz07:27
sabdfland he's setup the framework under which they operate07:28
sabdfland mentor them07:28
pittimdz could lead for a few weeks, then I could take over07:28
mdzthe key attribute for security is meticulousness07:28
mdzboth with preparing updates, and with tracking open issues07:28
sabdflwe'll figure this out amongst the group of people who've expressed an interest07:28
sabdflmdz: anything else on the organisation of that team and process?07:29
mdzwe need an abbreviation for ubuntu security advisories :-)07:29
mdzUSA is a major acronym collision07:29
fabbioneUSA :P07:29
sivangUSA ?07:29
sabdflusec'sy thing?07:29
sivangCanonical Security Advisory ?07:30
mdzUSN = notification?07:30
lamontWSA? :-)07:30
mdzRH uses "errata"07:30
lamontUbuntu Security Bulletin also has issues.07:30
Keybukheh, USE07:30
mdzlamont: yep07:30
thomUSE isn't a great abreviation either07:30
makobeter than USA07:30
pittinice German namecalling07:30
amupitti: ;) 07:30
sabdflUbuntu Security Notice?07:31
makoquick, whats the zulu word for "security advisory"07:31
sivanggood one mako07:31
mdzok, well, think about it, send me ideas, and we'll decide something after the meeting07:31
mdzsabdfl: hah07:31
pittithere aren't many TLAs left07:31
lamontsabdfl: that's a security response, not advisory07:31
mdzpitti: even TLA itself is overloaded07:31
sabdfldefault to "ubuntu security defect notice" maybe07:31
thomUbuntu Errata ?07:31
pittimdz: Three Letter Acronym07:31
mdzanyway, I'm going to set aside a day to draft some security policies and procedures07:32
thompitti: tom lords arch07:32
mdzwhat we'll fix, how, why, etc.07:32
pittithom: I know :-)07:32
sabdflok, anything else before we give t-bone the floor?07:32
sabdflmdz: kiss07:32
sabdflit will evolve07:32
=== thom watches T-Bone disappear under a landslide of bricks and carpet
T-Boneso that's up to me?07:33
sabdflt-bone, go ahead07:33
T-Bonei'll be pretty quick, for the sake of everyone07:33
T-Boneas i reported in previous mails, the IA-64 Ubuntu port was to be presented to the Gelato Council in Beijing last week07:34
T-Boneit has received a good welcome from the members, and interest was shown07:34
sabdflwith or without rc artwork? <duck>07:34
mdzgelato, sounds delicious07:34
T-Bonewww.gelato.org for those who don't know what this is about07:34
T-Boneseveral members (including people from UIUC/NCSA, HP...) have offered to help the port,07:35
T-Boneand Thierry Simonnet will send a report mail soon about the gelato meeting07:35
mdzwhat sort of help have they offered?07:35
T-Bonehopefully, we are close to get a bigger team than just "me" :^)07:36
T-Bonemdz: the big idea is that they might be interested in making Ubuntu the somewhat "Gelato recommended Linux distribution for IA64"07:36
mdzsounds great07:37
T-Bonemdz: so if you look at the Gelato members page, and at what Gelato is about (IA64 Linux use for massive calculus computing, roughly put),07:37
T-Boneyou'll find out that it will obviously involve "make Ubuntu the best IA-64 distribution" on the TODO list ;)07:37
T-Boneand that should also be a good thing for Ubuntu as a whole07:37
sabdflyes, i'm excited at this07:38
T-Bonethat sounded like to good news to me, so I thought it was worth letting you guys know about it ;)07:38
fabbioneT-Bone: really nice :-907:38
thomT-Bone: very cool, thanks for your efforts in getting us to the attention of the gelato folk07:39
lamontas for the port efforts, T-Bone has been spinlocked on my time07:39
T-Bonepaticipation from the members will probably involve development taks force, material, and stuff like that, but i'll leave the details of the report to Thierry07:39
T-Bonelamont: yeah, got a bit swamped last week07:39
T-Boneso, to get back to the port status07:39
T-BoneI was a bit quick in my announcement of the end of the stage107:40
T-Boneactually, we a have a "stage1" ubuntu archive locally07:40
T-Bonea b0rken one ;)07:40
lamontand my list includes trying to reproduce the error locally07:40
T-Boneit seems that there was some trouble in the packaging of some pieces of software (involving overlapping files)07:40
T-Bonenothing really bad, but it introduced unexpected delays07:40
sabdflwe have ordered some ia64 machine. elmo what's the eta on those?07:41
T-Bonethe next tasks are: 1) solving this packaging mess so that we can get to stage2; and 2) work on the IA64 installer07:41
elmosabdfl: they're here - I plan to install them tomorrow/thursday07:41
=== sabdfl hopes lamont will be able to contain his excitement :-)
elmothat's why I'm leaving for London as soon as this meeting's over ;-)07:41
T-Bonesabdfl: wow! That's great news ;^)))07:42
sabdflyou're both welcome07:42
lamontelmo: woody for now, I assume?07:42
T-Boneactually 1) and 2) could be done in parallel, but as i'm not yet ubiquous, i have to serialize07:42
elmolamont: yep07:42
elmolamont: unless you have something for me to upgrade to ?07:43
lamontelmo: once I get warty/main built.  not until07:43
T-Bonei will most likely need help of d-i gurus (Kamion?) for 2)07:43
elmolamont: k07:43
KamionT-Bone: happy to give you time post-warty07:43
T-Bonelamont: if you are ok with dpkg --force-overwrite, i have a working warty archive07:43
=== fabbione wonders how that can happen
KamionT-Bone: (which also means I'll have somewhere to upload source to ...)07:44
T-BoneKamion: ok07:44
sabdflelmo: we got 4 boxen, right?07:44
elmosabdfl: yeah, 3 buildd, one port07:44
T-BoneKamion: if you need access to the ia64 boxes i have, i can easily arrange that07:44
sabdfl3 buildd's and a porting box07:44
Kamioncan we commit (in upload-stuff-to-the-archive terms) to ia64 in hoary?07:44
elmobtw, what are we going to do about the ia64 and warty?  add it to the archive?07:44
mdzdon't we have only 2xbuildd for existing architectures?07:44
thommdz: 3 for existing07:45
sabdflelmo: no, not the official one07:45
=== T-Bone currently has 7 ia64 boxes, 3 of which are currently affected to Ubuntu
elmosabdfl: ok07:45
KamionT-Bone: serial console / netboot access would be ideal if possible07:45
sabdflmdz: 307:45
elmomdz: 3 for amd64, powerpc, 5 for i38607:45
lamontmdz: i386 currently has 3, ppc 3, amd64 207:45
T-BoneKamion: that can be easily setup, i'll arrange that with you later07:45
KamionT-Bone: the sort of setup joeyh has where he can drop in a new image and reboot remotely would rock. :)07:45
lamontmdz: running buildd, that is.07:45
sabdflwe should get porting boxes for ppc and amd6407:45
Kamionjoeyh has an ia64 box crash-testing d-i out of cron07:45
T-BoneKamion: ok, that shouldn't be an issue07:45
elmosabdfl: ok, will do07:46
=== daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflelmo: great, thanks07:46
sabdflt-bone, anything we can do for you now?07:47
T-Boneany other questions about IA64?07:47
sabdfli'm clear07:47
T-Bonesabdfl: giving me time, providing technical help, find me a job? :^)07:47
=== T-Bone ducks
sabdflno word back from jdub, and i think we can assume we won't hear from him till his monring07:47
sabdflin that order? seems reasonable :-)07:47
mdzsabdfl: so should we roll a build with the current stuff?07:47
T-Bonesabdfl: lol07:47
mdzor wait?07:48
sabdflmdz: no, let's get *something* of the new artwork in07:48
T-Boneexpect report mail from Thierry by tomorrow noon CEST07:48
mdzsabdfl: what do we have, and where is it?07:48
fabbioneT-Bone: where are you located?07:48
sabdflin my homedir on chinstrap is a wartythemes.tgz which has human and humansimple07:48
sabdflthat's for the gdm theme07:48
sabdflthe human one will have to be renamed back to Human and Human.xml so that existing installations don't break07:48
sabdfljdub was going to do this last night07:49
sabdflso unfortunately we may be repeating work he's done and not published07:49
sabdflalso, jdub published initial ubuntu-calendar packages07:49
sabdflkeybuk, did you chat to him about those?07:49
T-Bonefabbione: i'm in Paris07:49
Keybukthe ones he forwarded me the other day looked ok07:50
Keybukstructure-wise anyway07:50
fabbioneT-Bone: oh ok :-)07:50
sabdflok, let's get those in07:50
sabdflthey will definitely need a tweak for descirptions and his other changes07:50
Keybukbut the content was just temporary07:50
sabdflmdz: it's your call whether to roll a build now07:50
mdzsabdfl: the calendar stuff is not going on the CD, correct?07:50
sabdflmdz: no07:50
mdzso we basically need the gdm theme and the gnome splash07:51
mdzi.e., a new rev of ubuntu-artwork07:51
Keybukno it's not, or no it is?07:51
sabdflno it's not going on the cd07:51
Kamion#include <english-sucks.h>07:51
fabbioneok guys.. i am off for today07:51
sabdflKamion: no07:51
Keybukmdz: make it ubuntu-artwork_4.1007:51
fabbionecya tomorrow and thanks!07:51
sabdflso final can be -107:52
T-Boneam i clear to go? I have a dinner outside, and i'm already late ;^)07:52
Kamionthat's always a risky game :)07:52
mdzsabdfl: are we replacing the existing gdm theme + gnomesplash, or renaming them?07:52
=== lamont needs to understand what more besides ubuntu-artwork he needs to drop on the liveCD to get the non-default gnome-splash
sabdflmdz: the humansimple one has to become Human07:52
sabdflbecause existing gm installations will be looking for /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/Human.xml07:53
mdzwhat will we name the current one?07:53
sabdfland we want them all to become the one that is humansimple in that07:53
amulamont: /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/07:53
sabdflCircle of Friends is in the description07:53
mdzwho can take care of the ubuntu-artwork update?07:53
Keybukif I've got the artwork, I can do that07:54
mdzKeybuk: it's on chinstrap07:54
=== T-Bone is off
lamonthrm.. what's the image viewer in main?07:54
mdzlamont: testing warty-live-i386.iso07:55
mdz688,748,544 bytes07:55
sabdflisn't that too big?07:55
mdzthaht's 656M07:55
dieman_iiiiinteresting.  gdm sucked in their own Xsession file now07:55
amulamont: gnome-splash.png is default gnome,  ubuntu-splash.png it should be 07:55
dieman_thats what 700MB cdrs are for :)07:55
makois this after ttf-baekmuk was cut?07:55
mdzlamont: do you have a newer one?07:55
mdzI think this was supposed to be +ttf-baekmuk -celestia07:56
lamont20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso should be what is on cdimage...07:56
dieman_heh, missed the board meeting, hmmm07:56
lamont20041019-18 is +ttf-baekmuk -celestia07:56
mdzlamont: can you name the files with version numbers in them, please?07:56
Keybuksabdfl: "human" becomes "HumanCircle" and "humansimple" becomes "Human", yes?07:56
makokoreans rejoice07:56
sabdflmako, will you post the transcript somewhere for dieman_ and other?07:56
mdzlamont: so there is a newer build to be tested, but it isn't on cdimage yet?07:56
sabdflKeybuk: yes07:56
sabdfljdub had additional tweaks planned, but that was the main thing07:57
makosabdfl: a summary or the full transcript?07:57
makoi'll do the transcript now07:57
Keybuksabdfl: leaving the Name=Human (Simple) and Name=Human Circle of Friends ?07:57
sabdflmako: full transcript. have you been doing summaries of tb / cc meetings?07:57
mdzlamont: my sound devices are still reversed07:58
sabdflKeybuk: i'd prefer something better than human (Simple) but i'm out of entropy :-)(07:58
makosabdfl: i have not yet done a TB summary.. i'm one meting behind on CC meetings but i'm also behind on traffic in general due to the shipping stuff taking priority07:58
=== lamont double checks
dieman_sabdfl: ive got scrollback like ma07:58
dieman_sabdfl: mad07:58
mdzlamont: indeed, it seems very much the same experience as the last one07:58
sabdflmako: summary of tb would be very useful but i understand shipit take precedence now07:59
sabdflmdz: would you consider an rc of the live cd tomorrow, rather than a final release?07:59
mdzsabdfl: I'd much rather go out all at once07:59
mdzwhat's the hard deadline for shipit?08:00
sabdflok, your call08:00
makosabdfl: i think it will be reasonable once i can fall back into a routine.. i think all community/technical governnace meetings really need to be summarized08:00
silbsdb frozen today.  No hard deadline but every day delay past tomorrow = day delay in shipping.08:00
sabdflmako: agreed08:00
sabdflhold on, i think we're going to see a ton of shipit requests when the announcement goes out08:00
mdzI think the live CD can be there for tomorrow08:00
mdzsabdfl: agreed08:01
mdzwe should let those queue up a bit08:01
silbssorry - frozen in terms of first 170K orders. Will collect new orders, do second batch08:01
lamontmdz: that's the latest kernel on alextreme.org08:01
makoplan is to wait until post announcement to finalize the second batch :)08:01
silbsalready requests outnumber cds08:01
mdzok, can we close the meeting and take the rest of this to other channels?08:02
mdzok, thanks everyone08:02
sabdfli'd like to say something though08:02
sabdflmdz, you and your team have done a fantastic job on warty08:02
sabdflfar exceeded our Easter expectations08:02
sabdfland set a hell of pace for every other distro08:02
sabdflthank you08:02
mdzthe community response has been very encouraging; I think we're doing the right things08:03
sabdflKamion, fabbione, thom, the whole team have been exceptional08:03
sivangamen to that , mdz the man :)08:03
sabdflyes, i think this will be a shared load for hoary08:03
sabdfland that has it's own coordination issues :)08:03
sabdflanyhow, well done08:03
sabdfllooking forward to the reviews08:03
pittiamu: hopefully www.heise.de finally writes about it08:04
sabdflcheers everyone08:04
=== hhqw [asdfasdf@port167.cvx2-ejb.ppp.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sivang thinks this distro is going to have some pretty excellent ones.
pittioh, another thing08:04
amupitti: should be no problem ;) 08:04
pittiwill it be possible in any way to have a bunch of CDs here in GErmany before Oct 30th?08:04
pittiI will be at a Linux fair and like to distribute some CDs :-)08:05
silbspitti: will be very close. Can't promise but we are keeping "high priority" list for immediate shipment. Send details to Mako.08:05
silbspitt: must have commercial mailing address08:05
pittisilbs: oh, I don't have08:05
pittisilbs: it's not that crucial, though08:06
amupitti: you'll go to Dresden ? 08:06
pittithe thing is, if it is not possible to get them by the 30th, I don't really need them08:06
pittiamu: I live in Dresden :-)08:06
makopitti: coordinate with me if you want to try :)08:07
pittisilbs: I did not order them before because sb told me that the CDs can't be shipped before mid November08:07
pittimako: okay08:07
=== empop [~empop@dhcp-254-48-155.rr.ohio-state.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
pittimako: shall I add an extra item in shipit?08:07
makopitti: if you want to order them now it's not too late08:07
makopitti: 1 hour it might be :)08:07
pittimako: shipit or mail?08:08
makopitti: i am finalizing the db output scripts now :)08:08
makopitti: shipit08:08
makopitti: then too me what address you did it under, irc is fine08:08
pittimako: so I just raise my 10 personal CDs to 110 :-)08:09
makopitti: right :)08:10
pittimako: done, martin.pitt@canonical.com08:10
makopitti: sounds good08:10
pittithis information day is a nice opportunity to promote and distribute Ubuntu08:10
amupitti: hehe, i think you'll meet peter_e there, just say a hi from me ;) 08:11
pittiI'll be there and can show off on my laptop08:11
pittiamu: I know him, I was his application manager :-)08:11
pittiamu: and we already agreed to meet 08:11
pittiamu: I'll forward your greetings08:11
amupitti: ;) cool  08:12
Keybuksabdfl: do the calendar images need to be removed from this ubuntu-artwork package?08:12
sivangahh...don't take the calander images down...;)08:13
=== HenrikOxUK [~Miranda@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Keybuksivang: is ending up in another package08:16
sivangKeybuk : ok..08:17
=== HenrikOxUK [~Miranda@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== empop [empop@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sivang [~sg@] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
sabdflKeybuk: erm.. YES!08:23
=== silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
Keybukok, then I got it right :p08:23
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== jayavarman [~jman@] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== brettcar [~brettcar@segvio.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== brettcar [~brettcar@segvio.org] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== hhqw [asdfasdf@port327.cvx2-ejb.ppp.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== hubs [~hubs@N584P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== hubs [~hubs@N584P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"]
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!