| lamont_r | bbl | 12:03 |
|---|---|---|
| amu | lamont_r: do you plan another iso ? | 12:03 |
| amu | .. just took -16 ;) | 12:03 |
| lamont_r | yes. Plan to burn one with (hopefully) new artwork for grub screen, and definitely WinFOSS 0.4, in about 6 hours. | 12:03 |
| chrisa | I'm currently installing ubuntu's gnome 2.8 on my sid system in an attempt to see what explodes. This should prove interesting | 12:04 |
| lamont_r | right now, must run. | 12:04 |
| lamont_r | chrisa: you're sick, you know. | 12:04 |
| lamont_r | good luck | 12:04 |
| amu | lamont_r: cu | 12:04 |
| chrisa | wow, it worked | 12:13 |
| amu | try with woody ;) | 12:16 |
| chrisa | heh | 12:17 |
| chrisa | I should probably pin this correctly | 12:17 |
| === theantix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| amu | if it runs <1 Week, you win a Beer and become the master of moving bits. | 12:20 |
| === chrisa looks at the spare hardware in the office and grins | ||
| amu | upgrading from sarge, that manages even my 3 year old daughter:) | 12:23 |
| amu | .. or sid ;) | 12:24 |
| __daniel | amu, that's what my dog did last night :-) | 12:25 |
| amu | Ahh, I think you know also storry with the chicken ;) | 12:27 |
| __daniel | amu, erm... no i dont :-) | 12:27 |
| amu | which debian installed.... | 12:28 |
| __daniel | amu, not really, but i hope there's someone who tells it to me as a good night tale :-) | 12:29 |
| amu | no tale, you should ask joey about it ;) | 12:29 |
| amu | there are much more interessting things, like sending tcp packages with pigeon ;) | 12:31 |
| __daniel | amu, hehe... yesterday they talked about the good old times in 1903 were the internet was still cool and they had to carry packages up- and downhill even in the snow - that reminded me of those pigeons :-) | 12:33 |
| __daniel | amu, haha, found the chickens on http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=0172 :-) | 12:38 |
| amu | live is interesting ;) | 12:40 |
| mdz | Ng: if you're certain that you are correct about it being a duplicate, then it is very helpful for you to mark it | 12:42 |
| Ng | mdz: ok, I'll make sure I check it thoroughly | 12:42 |
| Ng | thanks | 12:42 |
| mdz | Ng: if you are unsure, then feel free to comment | 12:43 |
| mdz | and someone will review and confirm | 12:43 |
| Ng | ok, cool :) | 12:43 |
| Ng | is there policy yet about modifying things to use gksudo/sudo? e.g. gnome-system-tools uses su, but appears to be easily modifyable to use sudo su as a quick hack. would that be frowned upon? | 12:44 |
| === jdahlin [~jdahlin@14.Red-80-39-193.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | Ng: our g-s-t uses gksudo | 12:46 |
| mdz | Ng: things which use su in the Ubuntu desktop are bugs | 12:47 |
| Ng | jdub: the desktop entries do, but you can make it use internal routines that call su, e.g. the "Configure" button in Applications->System->Network Tool | 12:47 |
| mdz | Ng: that bug is already reported (twice) | 12:47 |
| jdub | oh, that's a different module | 12:48 |
| jdub | and it is bad that it wasn't fixed | 12:48 |
| jdub | but i don't think anyone realised that was in the new version | 12:48 |
| Ng | mdz: I know, fessing up, I didn't actually wait for your answer before marking the duplicate ;) | 12:48 |
| Ng | and I'm part way to a patch for it | 12:48 |
| mdz | if it's a simple and safe fix, that'd be a good candidate for warty-updates | 12:49 |
| jdub | mdz: would we consider it 'high-impact', 'dataloss' or 'security'? | 12:50 |
| Ng | it is looking like it'll be pretty simple, I'm just tying what is mostly a one liner into autoconf. the only snag I have hit is that there is a string that says "root password" that could use rewording and thus translation :/ | 12:50 |
| jdub | it uses it's own su foo? | 12:50 |
| mdz | jdub: given that two people have run into it already, apparently it's functionality in the desktop that people use, it's broken, and there's a trivial fix | 12:51 |
| Ng | jdub: it spawns a pty, runs su and the module with it, feeding it the pw | 12:51 |
| mdz | ok, maybe not so trivial :-) | 12:51 |
| Ng | src/common/gst-auth.c (last function) | 12:51 |
| jdub | i *hate* that | 12:51 |
| === jdub is reminded to add permissions elevation to HH | ||
| Ng | it seems to work just making the su_args array one larger by putting sudo as arg[0] :) | 12:52 |
| gma | I'm curious about the development model. Do all developers work for canonical, or are you globally distributed? | 12:52 |
| jdub | gma: all the developers on warty work for canonical, *and* are globally distributed :-) | 12:52 |
| Ng | I'm currently arguing with dpkg-buildpackage though ;) | 12:52 |
| jdub | gma: but now there are heaps of community members helping out | 12:52 |
| gma | cool. | 12:52 |
| jdub | Ng: hrm, might want to check if they copied code from gnome-system-monitor | 12:52 |
| gma | are canonical open to applications? | 12:52 |
| jdub | Ng: daniels fixed that | 12:52 |
| Ng | jdub: ooh, cool | 12:53 |
| === jdahlin [~jdahlin@14.Red-80-39-193.pooles.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| mdz | jdub: HH? | 12:53 |
| jdub | mdz: hoary page | 12:56 |
| mdz | ah | 12:56 |
| mdz | jdub: what about permissions elevation? | 12:56 |
| jdub | attempting to standardise on something | 12:56 |
| Ng | jdub: it looks similar, but not close enough to just yoink the code over :( | 12:59 |
| Ng | I'd say they have a common origin, but the g-s-t one is split up more so it can do ssh auth too | 12:59 |
| === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| === elmo_ [~james@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| doogie | btopenworld? does that mean they use opensource? :) | 01:19 |
| Ng | probably not ;) | 01:20 |
| jdub | morning elmo_ | 01:20 |
| Ng | BT like things that are slow and bad and expensive ;) | 01:20 |
| Ng | argh | 01:21 |
| elmo_ | hey jdub | 01:21 |
| Ng | the gnome-system-tools configure script is telling me I need intltool 0.29 or later, but I just installed ubuntu's, which is 0.31 or something. any ideas? | 01:22 |
| Ng | if I can just make the thing compile I think my patch is done and trivial enough to be safe | 01:22 |
| Ng | aha, the source package was missing a file or I didn't run enough auto* stuff | 01:24 |
| __daniel | Ng, what version of g-s-t did you try to ./configure ? | 01:25 |
| Ng | __daniel: 1.0.0-0ubuntu7 | 01:26 |
| Ng | I just apt-get source'd it, changed configure.in and a .c file and dpkg-buildpackage'd it | 01:27 |
| __daniel | Ng, that's strange: "apt-get source gnome-system-tools; cd gnome-system*; ./configure" ran fine at my place | 01:27 |
| Ng | I did change a string in a glade file too, so that and/or the configure.in change probably needed auto* to run more things | 01:27 |
| Ng | I had to copy intltool-update.in from intltool's install directory to the "backends" directory in g-s-t | 01:28 |
| Ng | it could easily be my mistake though, it's probably a couple of years since I last did any of this ;) | 01:28 |
| __daniel | i don't get why they don't have a proper autogen.sh | 01:29 |
| Ng | *shrug* :) | 01:32 |
| === Ng sticks his patch in bugzilla, hopefully the first of many :) | ||
| Ng | g-s-t isn't going to work doing remote module without further patching though | 01:34 |
| Ng | well, if the target machine is ubuntu at least | 01:35 |
| Ng | since it ssh's as root :/ | 01:35 |
| __daniel | Ng, ssh-as-root should never really be an option in a program | 01:37 |
| Ng | well it isn't a great idea to spawn a pty and use it to run su to get root, but they do ;) | 01:37 |
| jdub | ugh | 01:42 |
| jdub | ok | 01:42 |
| jdub | totally have to figure otu sound on this machine | 01:42 |
| sabdfl | lamont: live cd -16 seems to have solved the "see-through desktop" issue on the tosh | 01:46 |
| mjg59 | Oh, wow | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | lamont's been flamed on Advogato | 01:59 |
| kylem | it's a valid point. | 02:01 |
| === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | so what are some of our "all the drivers work but there's no audio output" solutions? | 02:06 |
| jdub | parallel port is disabled in bios, and modules are not loaded | 02:06 |
| jdub | audio definitely worked with early ubuntu kernels | 02:06 |
| mjg59 | Is the hardware unmuted? | 02:12 |
| jdub | yes | 02:12 |
| jdub | done by ubuntu by default | 02:13 |
| mjg59 | On all channels? | 02:15 |
| mjg59 | Is there a hardware mixer? | 02:16 |
| jdub | no | 02:17 |
| mjg59 | If you try to play something, does the interrupt number in /proc/interrupts increase? | 02:20 |
| jdub | yes | 02:22 |
| mjg59 | Any messages in dmesg? | 02:22 |
| jdub | 130 -> 248 that time ;) | 02:23 |
| mjg59 | Sounds like it's either a mixer issue or you've managed to get two sound drivers loaded... | 02:23 |
| jdub | there's only the first device's stuff under /dev/snd | 02:24 |
| mjg59 | Hrm. | 02:24 |
| mjg59 | And lsmod only shows one snd-something driver loaded? | 02:24 |
| jdub | one module in /proc/asound/modules | 02:24 |
| jdub | no, there's heaps | 02:25 |
| jdub | but actual drivers could include snd_bt87x | 02:25 |
| jdub | removed, still the same | 02:26 |
| mjg59 | Uh. bt87x sounds a touch worrying. | 02:26 |
| jdub | (this machine has a dvb card in it) | 02:26 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 02:26 |
| Ng | I've had problems with hotplug loading snd_bt87x before snd_emu10k1 and breaking sound | 02:26 |
| mjg59 | I'd worry that that might have presented a mixer device, and then the wrong stuff may have been loaded | 02:26 |
| lupus_ | what idem Ng | 02:26 |
| lupus_ | idem | 02:27 |
| lupus_ | I mean :) | 02:27 |
| jdub | i'll try loading snd_intel8x0 in /etc/modules | 02:27 |
| mjg59 | If you remove and then reinsert the correct module and then check the mixer, what does it look like? | 02:27 |
| mjg59 | Ok, that works too :) | 02:27 |
| Ng | lupus_: eh? ;) | 02:27 |
| === jdub did not realise that distrowatch was seen as a big deal | ||
| lupus_ | ng I mean bttv also broke my sound because it is loaded before the soundcard | 02:28 |
| Ng | ah :) | 02:28 |
| Ng | I only had that with debian, for some reason ubuntu gets it right | 02:28 |
| Ng | I thought it was dependant on PCI ordering because it's hotplug doing it and it works in bus order | 02:29 |
| lupus_ | A friend of my was complaining the other day that he couldn't switch between his 2 soundcards for sound | 02:29 |
| lupus_ | a tool that could do this would also fix this issue :) | 02:29 |
| jdub | yeah | 02:30 |
| lupus_ | and should be possible on the fly without rebooting :) | 02:30 |
| jdub | hrmph | 02:33 |
| === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| __daniel | good night guys | 02:42 |
| lupus_ | are there plans to let hald use fstab-sync to add all the partitions in /etc/fstab (vfat,ntfs etc) ? | 02:44 |
| === jamesh [~james@203-59-111-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | mjg59: lamont's been flamed on Advogato? | 03:22 |
| vorlon | for a documentation-impaired changelog entry. | 03:34 |
| vorlon | ... by Mathieu Roy. | 03:34 |
| doogie | ... and the middle-of-the-road "testing" release seems to offer the worst of both "stable" and "unstable." | 03:35 |
| doogie | (from lwn) | 03:35 |
| doogie | re: ubuntu and debian | 03:35 |
| vorlon | that's a curious characterization. I wonder what they think the best parts of unstable are that testing doesn't have -- the RC-buggy packages that will never make it in? ;) | 03:42 |
| chrisa | Indeed | 03:43 |
| === Keybuk [~scott@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| chrisa | Both hotplug and discover shouldn't need run at the same time, right? | 04:23 |
| mdz | chrisa: indeed, they _must not_ both run | 04:25 |
| tseng | 'lo | 04:25 |
| chrisa | mdz: So which is preferred for a laptop type system? | 04:25 |
| mdz | chrisa: hotplug is preferred in all cases, and is the Ubuntu default | 04:25 |
| jdub | morning tseng | 04:29 |
| jdub | Keybuk: so if we have out of control evolution processes guzzling RAM like nobody's business, what's the most useful tool i can ask a user to run to get some idea of where the problem lies? | 04:30 |
| lamont | mjg59: url for the flamage? | 04:36 |
| jamesh | lamont: http://www.advogato.org/person/yeupou/diary.html?start=63 | 04:47 |
| lamont | jamesh: you mean people actually read changelogs.? | 04:49 |
| === tseng does. | ||
| kylem | apt-listchanges... | 04:50 |
| jamesh | apparently. | 04:50 |
| vorlon | lamont: it's all mdz's fault for that fancy apt-listchanges hoowah. | 04:50 |
| tseng | but im hardly offended by someone refering to a bug #, as a gentoo dev we did that all the time | 04:50 |
| lamont | heh | 04:50 |
| lamont | that one was basically one of me going, "well, that one's definitely fixed by now." And there are probably others | 04:51 |
| tseng | make a keybinding that pipes xclip -out, containing the bug number to the end of a bugzilla search query, and send it to the brower | 04:51 |
| tseng | "5 minutes" becomes a fraction of a second | 04:51 |
| jamesh | maybe he expected you to paste the bind release notes into the changelog. | 04:51 |
| lamont | better yet, I built it with the wrong email address.... | 04:52 |
| tseng | reading on, this guy is a complete tool | 04:52 |
| tseng | id ignore it | 04:53 |
| daniels | isn't yeupou mathie roy? | 04:53 |
| daniels | mathieu, even | 04:53 |
| vorlon | yep. | 04:53 |
| daniels | interesting. only 2 peers on BT for i386, and I haven't served a single powerpc or amd64 torrent; contrast with pushing 1.5MB/s (bytes, not bits) for the preview | 04:57 |
| vorlon | everybody who downloaded the preview died of shock when they found out how good it was? :P | 04:57 |
| jdub | all the upgraders ;) | 05:02 |
| daniels | <Culus> my goal is to have people see the download progress meter and | 05:08 |
| daniels | kill themselves because they know they will never see | 05:08 |
| daniels | something more eleet than that | 05:08 |
| daniels | i think that's a pretty good model to be aiming for | 05:08 |
| mdz | the download progress meter is pretty 31337 | 05:08 |
| jdub | in bittorrent? | 05:10 |
| daniels | jdub: in apt | 05:11 |
| daniels | jdub: (culus being the apt maintainer or something, as well as an admin; in true debian style, he is, of course, almost entirely invisible) | 05:12 |
| jdub | oh, the experimental versions of apt? | 05:12 |
| daniels | dunno, don't think there's really been a new major apt for quite some time | 05:12 |
| mdz | jdub: apt's current download progress meter | 05:12 |
| === jdub furrows brow, makes dubious glancing looks around the room. | ||
| mdz | jdub: dude, it's rad | 05:14 |
| daniels | it's ill | 05:15 |
| daniels | how about 'Ill Network Management' as a Hoary goal? | 05:15 |
| daniels | or 'Ill Link Beat Detection To Make Your Computer Start Up Like Twenty Minutes Quicker When You're Not Plugged In To A Network' | 05:16 |
| jdub | we'd start saying things like 'network beat box' and confusing the crap out of everyone | 05:16 |
| kylem | how about 'Ill 802.1X and WPA Integration' | 05:16 |
| daniels | network beat box! i love it! | 05:16 |
| daniels | can we please have that? | 05:16 |
| jdub | fight the power man, all those wireless security protocols are crackrock | 05:17 |
| tseng | yay for ssh | 05:17 |
| kylem | it's not about security, it's about authentication. :) | 05:17 |
| jdub | yeah, and i want to know who you are before i give you any cookies | 05:18 |
| daniels | jdnot *those* cookies. | 05:19 |
| daniels | oh man. bong. | 05:19 |
| daniels | daniels@catsby:~/video% ping 192.168.1.1 | 05:19 |
| daniels | PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. | 05:19 |
| daniels | From 210.8.1.21 icmp_seq=1 Packet filtered | 05:19 |
| daniels | From 210.8.1.21 icmp_seq=2 Packet filtered | 05:19 |
| daniels | maybe ifplugd wasn't quite as phat as I'd hoped. | 05:19 |
| bob2 | apt should use GL to produce a rendered pie graph for completion | 05:19 |
| daniels | bob2: and it should use COMPOSITE | 05:20 |
| daniels | or something. | 05:20 |
| bob2 | hahaha | 05:20 |
| === daniels decides to research stuff like ifplugd. | ||
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| tseng | NetworkManager will be cool in about 2 years | 05:22 |
| daniels | i just want /etc/init.d/networking to say 'hey! no cable! ill!' and go along its merry way and not bother me. | 05:23 |
| jdub | tseng: two years? no way, it's getting lots of attention | 05:23 |
| tseng | daniels: iirc redhat does that with mii-tool | 05:24 |
| tseng | checking for cable. | 05:24 |
| lamont | daniels: that would be rad | 05:25 |
| jdub | daniels: (what about localhost?) | 05:26 |
| daniels | jdub: hm? | 05:27 |
| daniels | jdub: well, just not spend an hour trying to bring up DHCP and NTP | 05:28 |
| tseng | ctrl plus c, works for me | 05:28 |
| tseng | but doing it right would be cool. | 05:28 |
| daniels | yeah, but I usually restart after X crashes, which means I go off to get another glass of water/cup of tea | 05:28 |
| lamont | daniels: I imagine there's no binary driver bits for ATI rage mobility, true? | 05:30 |
| daniels | not at all | 05:31 |
| daniels | were you after a specific feature, or just wondering? | 05:31 |
| lamont | wondreing | 05:32 |
| bob2 | can't we just let ifplugd do the whole thing? | 05:33 |
| lamont | trying to figure out how to maximize my radeon 7500 on the desktop as well. | 05:33 |
| bob2 | or does it not notice when something is already plugged in? | 05:33 |
| lamont | guess I should read the howto. | 05:33 |
| fabbione | morning guys | 05:33 |
| jdub | NM > ifplugd (and friends) | 05:33 |
| bob2 | ah | 05:33 |
| chrisa | hrm, is there a sane way to completely upgrade a sid system to ubuntu? | 05:34 |
| bob2 | you can use pinning. | 05:36 |
| lamont | chrisa: apt doesn't consider it a true upgrade | 05:36 |
| bob2 | but it's kinda dodgy. | 05:36 |
| justdave | back up the important stuff, wipe it out, and install from a CD? sid has newer versions than a lot of what's in Ubuntu. It'll be messy. | 05:36 |
| lamont | since some packages are newer (higher version) in sid than in warty, and vice versa | 05:36 |
| chrisa | lamont: Right, I've noticed (due to various epochs and version numbers) | 05:36 |
| justdave | if you want to go that route, it might be safer to wait until Hoary opens for development, and update from the development repository. | 05:37 |
| justdave | (it'll be a more-recent snapshot of sid, and not frozen yet) | 05:37 |
| lamont | chrisa: sadly, it's completey unsupportable. woody->warty, no problem. sarge/sid from before 2004-06-28, should be no problem. sarge/sid from after that, install, or go the masochistic route first, and eventually probably do the install anyway | 05:38 |
| lamont | or wait for hoary to open | 05:38 |
| chrisa | lamont: I realize that, I'm just experimenting on a sid box I'm not concerned with for fun really | 05:38 |
| kylem | heh, force downgrade to <2004-06-28 via snapshot.d.n, and upgrade? ;=) | 05:39 |
| chrisa | I wouldn't do this on a serious system | 05:39 |
| lamont | ah, well, there is on sane way to cross grade from current sid to warty. | 05:39 |
| chrisa | kylem: You're nuts! | 05:39 |
| kylem | thank you. | 05:39 |
| === lamont ^5s kylem | ||
| lamont | hrm.. still have about 600MB of free space in my dvd tree. what to add.... | 05:40 |
| chrisa | lamont: what is this supposed sane way? | 05:40 |
| lamont | s/on/no/ | 05:41 |
| chrisa | ah | 05:41 |
| chrisa | I think this box needs ruining, I'll try kyle's method | 05:41 |
| === lamont hands chrisa some rubber gloves | ||
| === chrisa chuckles as he watches this take place | ||
| fabbione | lamont: any more testing for the live? | 05:46 |
| lamont | fabbione: waiting for artwork from jeff | 05:49 |
| tseng | artwork.. | 05:49 |
| lamont | planned changes from rc to rc2 are: (1) grub screen, (2) new WinFOSS. | 05:49 |
| === tseng yawns | ||
| lamont | fabbione: if you grab -16 and want to play with a firmware-needing card to see if that works, that'd be way cool | 05:50 |
| vorlon | daniels: hum, ifplugd always seems to work for me. ... "Packet filtered"? | 05:52 |
| elmo_ | lamont: have you got a firmware for these aironet pcmcia cards you're fond of? the cisco website wants some username/password and doesn't accept the one it gave me | 05:53 |
| fabbione | lamont: i don't have any firmware based card.. sorry | 05:53 |
| fabbione | elmo_: already up? | 05:54 |
| fabbione | or you didn't go to sleep yet? | 05:54 |
| lamont | elmo_: not sure - I can poke someone tomorrow to see what version they have | 05:55 |
| jdub | lamont: do you have the grub.conf for the livecd? | 05:56 |
| lamont | jdub: I expect so.. let me go look | 05:56 |
| jdub | lamont: or know if it grub itself is modified in any way? | 05:56 |
| === vorlon was actually wondering why Warty didn't use ifplugd, and I guess breaking things would be a good reason. ;) | ||
| jdub | lamont: oh | 05:58 |
| jdub | lamont: hold on, it's using gfxboot fork | 05:58 |
| elmo_ | fabbione: not slept yet | 05:58 |
| elmo_ | lamont: cool thanks | 05:58 |
| lamont | jdub: yes - gfxboot-grub | 05:58 |
| lamont | elmo_: what version firmware do you have? | 05:59 |
| lamont | and 350, I assume? | 05:59 |
| elmo_ | Firmware Version: 5.02.19 | 05:59 |
| lamont | jdub: I have the complete gfxboot-grub tree that built the package, if that helps... | 05:59 |
| elmo_ | yeah, 360 | 05:59 |
| elmo_ | err 350 | 05:59 |
| lamont | 360? | 05:59 |
| lamont | ok | 05:59 |
| daniels | vorlon: yeah, it bonged up my interface | 06:01 |
| lamont | jdub: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/LiveCD/morphix/source/morphix-iso-grubtheme_0.1-3ubuntu4.dsc | 06:01 |
| lamont | and tar.gz | 06:01 |
| lamont | jdub: work for you if I go to bed at this point, and plan to build in about 8 hours? | 06:02 |
| jdub | ok | 06:03 |
| lamont | jdub: anything else you need before I crash? | 06:03 |
| jdub | nup, should be ok :) | 06:04 |
| jdub | thanks | 06:04 |
| lamont | thanks. artwork hacking isn't my forte and all that... | 06:07 |
| jdub | hrm, do you stil lhave a copy of the current pcx? | 06:07 |
| === lamont decides to start his warty-release DVD burn before he sleeps | ||
| lamont | the current pcx is in that source package | 06:07 |
| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | (that _is_ the source package that built the current world...) | 06:07 |
| lamont | o | 06:07 |
| jdub | rock, ta | 06:07 |
| lamont | or did you mean the morphix thing? | 06:08 |
| KeyserSoze | hello | 06:08 |
| jdub | ha, the morphix one | 06:08 |
| fabbione | hey KeyserSoze ! | 06:08 |
| KeyserSoze | hey man | 06:08 |
| fabbione | guys... | 06:08 |
| fabbione | KeyserSoze has a problem on ubuntu on amd64 | 06:08 |
| fabbione | perhaps someone here can help him? | 06:08 |
| KeyserSoze | yeah please | 06:08 |
| KeyserSoze | trying to get an oracle install going | 06:09 |
| jdub | there's your problem | 06:09 |
| jdub | oh | 06:09 |
| lamont | jdub: if you do wnat the morphix one, it's scp-able from chinstrap:~lamont/morphix.pcx | 06:09 |
| jdub | ;) | 06:09 |
| KeyserSoze | but we get this error from the jre: | 06:09 |
| KeyserSoze | current locale is not supported in X11, locale is set to CX locale modifiers are not supported, using defaultException in thread "main" java.lang.InternalError: Current locale is not supported | 06:09 |
| fabbione | we already checked the locale | 06:09 |
| KeyserSoze | and no matter what I try it still thinks its on locale CX | 06:09 |
| fabbione | and it is set properlyu | 06:09 |
| fabbione | can it be an amd64 glitch? | 06:09 |
| mdz | what is the locale set to? | 06:10 |
| mdz | let's take this to #ubuntu, it's not development-related | 06:10 |
| fabbione | mdz: i told him to join here | 06:10 |
| === ph [~ph@pD9E6B520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | fabbione: why? | 06:11 |
| KeyserSoze | ok I'll go to ubuntu I don't care | 06:11 |
| lamont | jdub: you're done with artwork for me already> | 06:24 |
| lamont | ? | 06:24 |
| jdub | i hope so | 06:24 |
| jdub | might look like poo | 06:24 |
| jdub | aren't you in bed yet? :) | 06:24 |
| lamont | feh. Now I have to stay up for a while | 06:24 |
| jdub | heh | 06:24 |
| lamont | should I care that you sent it twice? | 06:25 |
| jdub | geez | 06:25 |
| jdub | that'd be evo | 06:25 |
| jdub | stupid thing | 06:25 |
| lamont | hrm... actually, -4 was my screwing around, I think,. | 06:27 |
| lamont | -3ubuntu3 was really what we're using | 06:27 |
| lamont | anyway, building -3ubuntu5 now | 06:27 |
| === lamont will test the home edition first, in about an hour or so. | ||
| === casche [~asche@blk-215-116-66.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lamont passes the time by burning his 3.7GB warty install dvd | ||
| jdub | heh, nice | 07:16 |
| lamont | all of main, and a little bit of universe. binary and source | 07:19 |
| lamont | basically, my full mirror + the udebs | 07:19 |
| lamont | must kill d-i for not dealing well with having Packages.gz instead of Packages.... | 07:19 |
| lamont | this'll be interesting... burning a dvd+rw and a cd-rw at the same time... cdrw drive is slave on the bus with the DVD... | 07:20 |
| lamont | burning home edition | 07:21 |
| jdub | have we disabled uploads yet? | 07:21 |
| lamont | pretty sure | 07:22 |
| jdub | should probably do it soon | 07:22 |
| jdub | cool | 07:22 |
| lamont | was talk of allowing uploads to fix previously-ftbfs packages in universe/multiverse, and I need to upload a new mplayer to multiverse once I'm done with livecd.. | 07:22 |
| jdub | yeah | 07:22 |
| lamont | right now, it works for anyone with a Xeon, and no one else.:-( | 07:22 |
| jdub | ouch | 07:23 |
| lamont | I gave it about 2 minutes today, but that attempt was FTBFS | 07:23 |
| lamont | basically, it built customized for the buildd hardware, instead of runtime cpu detection | 07:23 |
| lamont | dvd write went from 2.4x to 0.6x :-( | 07:23 |
| lamont | otoh, pio-based cdrw write is chunking along quite happily | 07:24 |
| === lamont discovered macadamia toffee this week | ||
| lamont | cdrw fixating | 07:28 |
| lamont | dvd getting squat | 07:28 |
| lamont | jdub: did you touchup the logo at all on the grub screen? | 07:30 |
| lamont | btw, timer working perfectly. | 07:30 |
| lamont | not as cute, but definitely working. :) | 07:30 |
| jdub | lamont: kinda | 07:31 |
| lamont | ok | 07:31 |
| jdub | lamont: not as cute as...? how can i make it better? | 07:31 |
| lamont | jdub: I had officially declared the double bar thing to be "cute". | 07:32 |
| jdub | ahr | 07:32 |
| jdub | so now it's just white bars on a brown background? | 07:32 |
| lamont | http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso | 07:33 |
| jdub | thaytan put release dates on the generated release names :) | 07:34 |
| lamont | white _bar_ (full width), instead of 2 partially white bars at 1/3 width | 07:34 |
| lamont | jdub: too much time, I tell ya | 07:34 |
| lamont | jdub: you have enough bandwidth to test that image? | 07:34 |
| jdub | no :| | 07:34 |
| lamont | I'm going to bed, mind you. | 07:35 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:lamont] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Warty Day! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | please test http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso so it can be warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | ||
| jdub | ahr | 07:36 |
| jdub | okay, will chat to you about making it sexier in the morning | 07:36 |
| jdub | ooh - could i get a photo? :) | 07:36 |
| lamont | camera is in the car. | 07:36 |
| lamont | must I ? | 07:36 |
| === calc [~ccheney@cdm-208-180-235-130.cnro.cox-internet.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| KeyserSoze | can anyone confirm for me that they can run a java app under ubuntu on amd64 using either blackdown or sun jre please? | 07:37 |
| === lamont goes to the car | ||
| jdub | lamont: nah, don't worry | 07:38 |
| lamont | ew. bad burn | 07:39 |
| lamont | have camera, rebooting now | 07:39 |
| Mitario | wohoo, all trashapplet boogs are fixed | 07:40 |
| lamont | http://people.u.c/~lamont/dscn1379.jpg | 07:42 |
| lamont | and the arrows are even where they belong. :-) | 07:42 |
| jdub | heh | 07:43 |
| jdub | ok, so, gotta do something with the top left | 07:43 |
| lamont | "resistance is futile" | 07:45 |
| lamont | anyway, send me more artwork. night. | 07:45 |
| jdub | thanks! | 07:45 |
| jdub | night | 07:45 |
| === mdz_ [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Mitario | hmm, it's getting light already :) time to go to bed | 08:17 |
| === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Morning | 09:12 |
| pitti | mdz_: still here? | 09:31 |
| === vorlon_ [vorlon@dsl093-039-086.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| thom | ello | 09:40 |
| === |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === fabbione kicks X straight in the balls | ||
| fabbione | hey thom | 09:46 |
| fabbione | thom: how was the party yesterday? | 09:46 |
| thom | it was cool | 09:46 |
| thom | good bunch turned up | 09:46 |
| fabbione | nice | 09:47 |
| pitti | Hi thom | 09:49 |
| pitti | hi fabbione | 09:50 |
| fabbione | hey pitti | 09:51 |
| pitti | fabbione: been at a release party as well? In some LUG? | 09:51 |
| pitti | Gosh, this thing gets longer and longer | 09:51 |
| fabbione | pitti: no.. at home sandpapering walls and taking away 20 huge plastic bags of trash from the works | 09:52 |
| pitti | I mean the channel subject :-) | 09:52 |
| pitti | fabbione: oh, sounds like exactly the right thing to do after an exhausting release day :-) | 09:52 |
| fabbione | pitti: of course | 09:52 |
| pitti | thom: since elmo is not yet here, do you happen to know how and whether the security upload queues work? | 09:52 |
| thom | fraid not dude | 09:53 |
| pitti | I just saw that DSA 570-1 and 571-1 are unapplied in Warty | 09:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: elmo was working on it | 09:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: i have the packages read for these 2 already | 09:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: so don't worry | 09:53 |
| pitti | fabbione: oh fine, I already wanted to prepare some :-) | 09:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: mdz and I coordinated a while ago | 09:54 |
| fabbione | before the sec team election | 09:54 |
| pitti | okay, fine | 09:54 |
| pitti | then I can throttle my nerves again | 09:54 |
| fabbione | eheh | 09:54 |
| pitti | and let my head continue to ache :-/ | 09:54 |
| fabbione | i need to go back to X.org | 09:54 |
| fabbione | THIS SOURCE IS SO FUCKING INCONSISTENT! | 09:54 |
| === pitti does not like to get up at 6 o'clock | ||
| pitti | fabbione: oh, speaking of headaches... :-) | 09:54 |
| pitti | sometimes I already thought that rewriting X from scratch might be faster :-) | 09:55 |
| pitti | writing some nice drivers to speed up the framebuffer and basically use this :-) </dream> | 09:55 |
| pitti | fabbione: anyway, I cross my fingers that you and daniel tame the beast | 09:56 |
| fabbione | pitti: the problem is not the beast itself | 09:59 |
| fabbione | it's splitting the beast | 09:59 |
| fabbione | and forward-porting the patches we have | 09:59 |
| fabbione | to get it to build | 09:59 |
| pitti | fabbione: I'm curious. Didn't the fd.o version already split components? | 09:59 |
| fabbione | next step is manage to put everything into nice little tiny debian pacakges | 09:59 |
| pitti | or was that X.org? | 09:59 |
| fabbione | pitti: no | 09:59 |
| fabbione | that's only daniels | 09:59 |
| fabbione | X.org is still monolitich | 10:00 |
| pitti | I thought there wer already efforts in this direction | 10:00 |
| fabbione | and i am going to CRACK IT | 10:00 |
| === pitti gives fabbione a huge hammer | ||
| fabbione | 'C0Z I 4M 4 L33T H4CK35 | 10:00 |
| pitti | so "crack of the day" has a completely different meaning to you :-) | 10:00 |
| jamesh | fabbione: would an X display problem that disappears when I boot with acpi=no likely be an X problem, or a hardware problem? | 10:03 |
| jamesh | (this is on an athlon64) | 10:04 |
| fabbione | jamesh: yes.. everything can be when it goes to amd64 and X | 10:05 |
| fabbione | and it can be easily an X problem | 10:05 |
| fabbione | Xfree86 didn't get much love on amd64 as X.org did | 10:05 |
| jamesh | fabbione: okay. With ACPI enabled, it displays random garbage, except for the mouse cursor | 10:06 |
| jamesh | with acpi=no, it works perfectly. | 10:06 |
| fabbione | jamesh: ok. please open a bug with all the info | 10:07 |
| fabbione | such as videocard and so on | 10:07 |
| jamesh | okay. | 10:07 |
| fabbione | exact models of the laptop, logfiles with both working and nonworking X | 10:07 |
| fabbione | jamesh: make it a normal severity | 10:08 |
| fabbione | there is really nothing i can do to make it working at the moment | 10:08 |
| fabbione | we will have to see with X.org | 10:08 |
| jamesh | is there an easy way to get the log file from a previous run of the X server? | 10:08 |
| fabbione | jamesh: try checking /var/log | 10:09 |
| jamesh | I had to restart the machine when X screwed up | 10:09 |
| fabbione | afaik there is a backup of the log | 10:09 |
| fabbione | well please send both | 10:09 |
| fabbione | i need them to check | 10:09 |
| jamesh | yes there is. | 10:10 |
| jamesh | fabbione: interesting. the .old log file says it finds an AGP card, while the current one says it found a PCI card ... | 10:12 |
| jamesh | I'll restart to make sure I've got the right logs though. | 10:12 |
| === TMiegel [~hans@iD4CC1E07.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | sjoerd: here? | 10:25 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-7-112.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| thom | pitti: so that firefox javascript crasher? is apparently much harder to trigger if your LOCALE is en_US *sigh* | 10:29 |
| seb128 | morning | 10:30 |
| pitti | thom: what, is it still in 0.9.3? Never occurred for me any more since we downgraded | 10:30 |
| pitti | Hi seb128 | 10:30 |
| thom | no, not in 0.9.3 | 10:30 |
| pitti | thom: or do you prepare packages for 1.0? | 10:30 |
| thom | just explaining why mdz/lamont couldn't trigger it | 10:30 |
| thom | (this is from upstream) | 10:31 |
| pitti | thom: ah, nice idea | 10:31 |
| pitti | thom: I use de_DE.UTF-8 | 10:31 |
| thom | yeah | 10:31 |
| seb128 | hello pitti | 10:31 |
| thom | and i'm on en_GB | 10:31 |
| pitti | they don't like non-Americans :-) | 10:31 |
| pitti | jdub: can we still add feature goals for Hoary to the Wiki? | 10:33 |
| pitti | jdub: we sort them out later anyway, but I'd like to drop some ideas there | 10:33 |
| === Sledge [~steve@80.46.37.1] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Sledge | morning | 10:56 |
| thom | hey sledge. get back ok last night? | 10:57 |
| Sledge | not too bad | 10:57 |
| Sledge | only got to 2.20am... :-/ | 10:57 |
| Sledge | so I'm feeling really bright and with it this morning | 10:58 |
| Sledge | :-) | 10:58 |
| thom | heh | 10:59 |
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| sivang | morning all | 11:07 |
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| sabdfl | morning all | 11:42 |
| dyn | morning :) | 11:42 |
| seb128 | hello sabdfl | 11:42 |
| tuo2 | god morgan, sabdfl | 11:43 |
| fabbione | hey sabdfl | 11:43 |
| sabdfl | fabbione! | 11:43 |
| fabbione | sabdfl: how was the party? | 11:44 |
| fabbione | sabdfl: i have a good news and a bad news.. which one first? | 11:44 |
| sabdfl | good news today! | 11:44 |
| fabbione | sabdfl: the work on X.org is progressing pretty good | 11:45 |
| === sabdfl normally prefers the beef before the ice cream | ||
| sabdfl | ok | 11:45 |
| sabdfl | when's daniels due in cph? | 11:45 |
| fabbione | the bad news is that is much more than what I expected. | 11:45 |
| fabbione | sabdfl: 1st nov. | 11:45 |
| sabdfl | ok | 11:45 |
| fabbione | manly because they reorganized a good portion of the tree | 11:45 |
| sabdfl | do we have x.org in arch yet? | 11:46 |
| fabbione | that makes some stuff more complex | 11:46 |
| fabbione | sabdfl: nope | 11:46 |
| fabbione | we need xfree86 and x.org in arch | 11:46 |
| fabbione | for the patch forwarding | 11:46 |
| fabbione | that's what is actually taking more time than expected | 11:46 |
| lupus_ | not debrix? :) | 11:50 |
| sjoerd | pitti: pong | 11:52 |
| pitti | Hi! | 11:52 |
| pitti | sjoerd: back from class? | 11:52 |
| pitti | sjoerd: bad news! modifying g-v-m as I thought yesterday does not work | 11:53 |
| pitti | sjoerd: gnome exports an interface for unmounting a device, but not for mounting it | 11:53 |
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| sjoerd | pitti: just arrived at the uni.. | 11:53 |
| pitti | sjoerd: it has a function for listing all connected drives, but new USB devices don't appear there | 11:54 |
| pitti | sjoerd: this might get better if g-vfs is compiled with hal support, but until then g-v-m has to call mount on its own | 11:54 |
| sjoerd | pitti: we'll see | 11:55 |
| sjoerd | pitti: donno if gvfs with the new hal patches shows all volumes or only the ones in fstab | 11:55 |
| pitti | sjoerd: BTW, I'm currently ubuntu-fying your hal package; you still conflict to g-v-m << 0.9.10, but it should be << 1.0.2 | 11:56 |
| pitti | sjoerd: will you change that for Debian | 11:56 |
| pitti | sjoerd: the older g-v-m expected a different storage semantics, which don't work with the newer hal | 11:56 |
| sjoerd | pitti: for debian 0.9.10 is good enough.. that's why it's still that way | 11:56 |
| pitti | sjoerd: oh, okay | 11:56 |
| sjoerd | pitti: debian's 0.9.10 was a cvs, that's why it worked | 11:57 |
| pitti | sjoerd: you cheated :-) | 11:57 |
| pitti | sjoerd: no, just kidding | 11:57 |
| sjoerd | pitti: i'll probably do << 1.0.2 for the new packages then.. people should be using that anyway | 11:58 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091b81.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| __daniel | hai | 12:03 |
| === elmo_ [~james@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-15-209.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| kOoLiNuS | hi to everyone! | 12:59 |
| __daniel | hi kOoLiNuS | 12:59 |
| pitti | Hi kOoLiNuS | 12:59 |
| kOoLiNuS | one quick question, can I ? | 01:00 |
| pitti | you can do everything, kOoLiNuS :-) | 01:00 |
| pitti | EMISSINGFULLVERB | 01:00 |
| thom | if you have a question please just ask it | 01:01 |
| pitti | thom: btw, you hacked on hal a bit, right? | 01:02 |
| thom | a bit | 01:02 |
| kOoLiNuS | yes | 01:02 |
| pitti | thom: does "libselinux-dev build dependency" ring any bell? | 01:02 |
| kOoLiNuS | i've tried the very first relase of Warty | 01:02 |
| pitti | thom: I don't know what it was good for and hal builds fine without | 01:02 |
| kOoLiNuS | and i was disappointed by the "crippled" Gnome-System-Tools | 01:02 |
| pitti | thom: the Debian package does not have it either | 01:02 |
| thom | pitti: the reason for the build-dep was to work around a bug in the selinux packages at the time, iirc | 01:02 |
| pitti | kOoLiNuS: what's missing? | 01:02 |
| mjg59 | kOoLiNuS: That's an upstream decision | 01:03 |
| mjg59 | The tools that aren't supplied are no longer supported | 01:03 |
| pitti | thom: what has hal to do with these packages? | 01:03 |
| thom | pitti: (they shipped the .so in the main package, so configure would pick it up and enable selinux support, which would then blow up cos of the lack of headers) | 01:03 |
| kOoLiNuS | I'm still in the devel ml, so I was wondering if I can "force" the installation of the "complete" package from the testing repos | 01:04 |
| pitti | thom: darn | 01:04 |
| mjg59 | kOoLiNuS: If you download the source, you can (I /think/) change the configure options in debian/rules and the rebuild the package | 01:04 |
| mjg59 | That's assuming that you can still force the build of the unsupported tools - I'm not sure about that | 01:04 |
| kOoLiNuS | mjg59: too far difficoult for me :-/ | 01:05 |
| pitti | thom: my hald is not linked against libselinux, so I guess I can safely drop the dependency | 01:05 |
| thom | pitti: yeah | 01:07 |
| fabbione | elmo_: are you already awake? | 01:07 |
| pitti | daniels: here? | 01:08 |
| seb128 | kOoLiNuS: apt-get source gnome-system-tools && apt-get build-dep gnome-system-tools && cd gnome-system-tools-1.0.0, add --enable-boot --enable-services --enable-disks in configure options debian/rules and then dpkg-buildpackage to build the package ... | 01:08 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091b81.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| kOoLiNuS | seb128: ok, note taken :-D thanks | 01:09 |
| seb128 | kOoLiNuS: but these modules are not supported and bugged so probably not a good idea | 01:09 |
| kOoLiNuS | on SID the've worked | 01:09 |
| seb128 | they have been removed | 01:10 |
| seb128 | there is a reason :) | 01:10 |
| seb128 | what are you trying to do ? | 01:10 |
| kOoLiNuS | seb128: yeah ? didn't know | 01:10 |
| kOoLiNuS | modify the services started at boot time graphically | 01:10 |
| kOoLiNuS | or | 01:10 |
| seb128 | kOoLiNuS: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=271859 | 01:11 |
| kOoLiNuS | if I install (L)AMP for toying around with my blog I do not want them to start everytime, I am on a Laptop | 01:11 |
| elmo_ | fabbione: yeah | 01:12 |
| __daniel | kOoLiNuS, i only have a non-graphic variant for you: cd /etc/init.d; update-rc.d <name-of-service> remove but listen to suggestions of the others, too :-) | 01:14 |
| kOoLiNuS | seb128: perfect .... some fedora testing friend of mine did tell me something (not accurate as your link) on this | 01:14 |
| kOoLiNuS | __daniel: if I had the competence to do that I would not miss it :-D | 01:14 |
| === kOoLiNuS is going to have lunch | ||
| === kOoLiNuS is now known as kOoL-eating | ||
| fabbione | elmo_: will you ping me when ready for the upload? or do you want me to ping you? | 01:19 |
| === pitti enjoys his shiny new hal_0.4.0-1ubuntu1 | ||
| carlos | is hoary repository open already? | 01:23 |
| carlos | could I move to it? | 01:23 |
| elmo_ | fabbione: oh, right, meh, working on it - I'll ping you in a bit | 01:23 |
| thom | no and no | 01:23 |
| elmo_ | carlos: no, no | 01:24 |
| elmo_ | thom: copycat | 01:24 |
| carlos | ok | 01:24 |
| carlos | :-) | 01:24 |
| === Ramsed [~Ramsed@cust.92.248.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | elmo_: ok :-) | 01:27 |
| jamesh | how's this look? http://www.gnome.org/~jamesh/images/drive-mount-applet.png | 01:33 |
| pitti | jamesh: nice! | 01:34 |
| pitti | jamesh: you finally made an applet? | 01:34 |
| jamesh | pitti: yeah. It was a bit fiddly to get the sizing right. | 01:35 |
| jamesh | but it works pretty well now. | 01:35 |
| pitti | jamesh: any upload plans already? | 01:37 |
| jamesh | I still need to do a bit more testing | 01:37 |
| pitti | jamesh: okay, nice. Will you upload this to experimental/sid as well? | 01:38 |
| jamesh | pitti: I'm planning on getting it merged into gnome-applets (since it is meant to replace one of the existing applets). I haven't considered packaging it separately | 01:39 |
| pitti | jamesh: oh right, even better | 01:39 |
| fabbione | daniels: you around? | 01:50 |
| === sivang [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| carlos | so, finally we are not going to have our final release in the main page of slashdot? | 02:01 |
| lamont | jdub? | 02:04 |
| thom | carlos: no | 02:07 |
| carlos | :-( | 02:08 |
| thom | *shrug*, they have given us like 4 stories in the last month | 02:08 |
| sabdfl | carlos: no, they said the main page had had enough ubuntu coverage | 02:09 |
| carlos | :-? | 02:09 |
| carlos | so a final release cannot be there but a Xandros betatesting process can | 02:09 |
| carlos | funny | 02:09 |
| chrisa | Why isn't trashapplet in gnome-applets? | 02:14 |
| sabdfl | chrisa: we picked it up before it had yet gone mainstream | 02:17 |
| sabdfl | but expect it to become part of the main gnome release | 02:17 |
| chrisa | ah | 02:17 |
| seb128 | it's already in gnome-applets cvs head | 02:18 |
| fabbione | guys is very familiar with libraries that can help me 2 minutes? | 02:21 |
| amu | Kamion: btw. lolo synced it :) | 02:25 |
| Kamion | amu: cool | 02:25 |
| __daniel | just wrote a mail to heise.de to make them cover the ubuntu release :-) | 02:26 |
| amu | http://source.rfc822.org/pub/mirror/releases.ubuntu.com/warty/ | 02:26 |
| fabbione | well.. i meant who is very familiar... | 02:28 |
| seb128 | fabbione: you should just ask ... | 02:28 |
| seb128 | usually the "who is very .. with ..." kind of questions don't get a lot of replies | 02:28 |
| fabbione | seb128: well i need to understand how to split a lib in general | 02:30 |
| fabbione | `-- lib | 02:31 |
| fabbione | |-- libFS.a | 02:31 |
| fabbione | |-- libFS.so -> libFS.so.6.0 | 02:31 |
| fabbione | |-- libFS.so.6 -> libFS.so.6.0 | 02:31 |
| fabbione | `-- libFS.so.6.0 | 02:31 |
| fabbione | libFS.a -> libfs-dev | 02:31 |
| fabbione | libFS.so.6.0 -> libfs6 ? | 02:31 |
| fabbione | and the other 2? | 02:31 |
| Kamion | yes; libFS.so -> libfs-dev, libFS.so.6 -> libfs6 | 02:31 |
| fabbione | ok thanks! | 02:32 |
| fabbione | that makes it simple | 02:32 |
| fabbione | :-) | 02:32 |
| fabbione | i already have enough headackes splitting X to dig into each single piece | 02:32 |
| === fabbione does really appreciate | ||
| seb128 | .a / .la / .so -> -dev | 02:34 |
| seb128 | .so.x and .so.x.y.z -> lib | 02:34 |
| fabbione | thanks seb :-) | 02:35 |
| seb128 | you're welcome :) | 02:36 |
| fabbione | now the big question is.. which directory should i start polluting if i kill /usr/include/X11 and /usr/X11R6 ? | 02:40 |
| pitti | fabbione: you kill /usr/X11R6? | 02:41 |
| === pitti praises fabbione | ||
| pitti | fabbione: why not just put the stuff in /usr/lib/X11 and the executables in /usr/bin? | 02:42 |
| pitti | fabbione: IMHO /usr/bin can't be made worse, pollute-wise | 02:42 |
| Kamion | I thought that was roughly the plan | 02:42 |
| fabbione | pitti: i need somewhere where to store the includes | 02:43 |
| fabbione | and nothing is allowed to stick <whatever>/X11 | 02:43 |
| pitti | fabbione: but why do you want to kill /usr/include/X11? | 02:43 |
| pitti | fabbione: it seems fairly "canonical" to me :-) | 02:43 |
| fabbione | pitti: it's a synlink to ../X11R6/inlucde | 02:43 |
| fabbione | pitti: see also policy | 02:43 |
| Kamion | you can't kill /usr/include/X11 as such; people do #include <X11/foo.h> | 02:44 |
| pitti | fabbione: right, I mean why not put the includes in /usr/include/X11 directly? | 02:44 |
| === lamont takes kids to school. bbiab | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: i know that | 02:44 |
| Kamion | but you're going to run into dpkg hell trying to replace a directory with a symlink | 02:44 |
| fabbione | Kamion: i need an alternate location | 02:44 |
| Kamion | er, vice versa | 02:44 |
| fabbione | Kamion: it is already a symnlink | 02:44 |
| Kamion | 13:44 < Kamion> er, vice versa | 02:44 |
| fabbione | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.8.7 | 02:44 |
| fabbione | Packages must not provide or install files into the directories /usr/bin/X11/, /usr/include/X11/ or /usr/lib/X11/. | 02:45 |
| Kamion | yes, I know | 02:45 |
| Kamion | I was involved in that policy discussion :P | 02:45 |
| fabbione | and i don't want to go against policy | 02:45 |
| fabbione | but neither i can pollute * | 02:45 |
| Kamion | that bit of policy was taken in order to smooth the path for a future move of XFree86 to /usr | 02:46 |
| Kamion | s/taken/created/ | 02:46 |
| fabbione | Kamion: correct | 02:46 |
| Kamion | I do not think that you should regard it as constraining X.org packages | 02:46 |
| fabbione | but now that i am moving X to /usr | 02:46 |
| fabbione | Xfree86 or X.org.. still the same stuff | 02:46 |
| fabbione | it's an Xserver | 02:46 |
| Kamion | the other alternative is /usr/X.org and keep the symlinks, would be simpler, but you don't get to lose the old hack | 02:46 |
| fabbione | or X Windows System | 02:47 |
| Kamion | I *know* :) | 02:47 |
| Kamion | ok, "I do not think that you should regard it as constraining XFree86 or X.org packages" | 02:47 |
| fabbione | ahh sorry | 02:47 |
| fabbione | i misread | 02:47 |
| fabbione | but neither i want to start another mess creating /usr/x.org | 02:47 |
| fabbione | makes no sence to me | 02:48 |
| fabbione | at that point i could just keep /usr/X11R6 | 02:48 |
| fabbione | without messing around | 02:48 |
| === fabbione needs to see 2 minutes of sunshine in the hope that God will kiss his forehead | ||
| fabbione | i will have to discuss it with Branden | 02:57 |
| fabbione | i don't see a clean solution to this | 02:57 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux [~gmail@gnu-debian.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Ubuntu-Linux | i reported another bug | 03:09 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2601 | 03:09 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | is the person who email addy cjwatson@canonical.com here? | 03:09 |
| Kamion | yes | 03:09 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | who is it? | 03:09 |
| Kamion | me | 03:10 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux want to poke that person | ||
| === Ubuntu-Linux pokes Kamion | ||
| tseng | Ubuntu-Linux: poking on bugs works, bugzilla sends out an email with changes | 03:10 |
| Kamion | if you're objecting to the severity change, I downgraded it as a routine bug management issue because problems on a single piece of hardware don't justify the 'blocker' severity. | 03:10 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: tree.. had to help me when you where the one in charges shess | 03:10 |
| Kamion | I can't help everybody individually. | 03:11 |
| Kamion | there's this small matter of "time" | 03:11 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i know | 03:11 |
| Kamion | I also don't know what your problem is, and I was put off helping you by statements like "Ubuntu messed with d-i". | 03:11 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | but you where there at the same time that i ask and where active | 03:12 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | they did | 03:12 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | it now says ubuntu when you boot up | 03:12 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | that even called messing | 03:12 |
| azeem | Ubuntu-Linux: crap, Ubuntu writes 'ubuntu' instead of 'debian' when it boots up? | 03:13 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i change the aphla d-i i used to say my name | 03:14 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i even messed with d-i | 03:14 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | 0_0 | 03:14 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | who hasnt? | 03:14 |
| bob2 | people with a job and/or hobby. | 03:15 |
| azeem | I don't understand your problem (but then, I didn't read the bug-report either) | 03:15 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | what a geek which doesnt mess with his installer to say his name? | 03:15 |
| === tseng doesnt | ||
| === chrisa doesn't | ||
| Kamion | please take the chatter off #ubuntu-devel, thanks. | 03:15 |
| === __daniel shakes his head in disbelief | ||
| Ubuntu-Linux | azeem: read it | 03:15 |
| tseng | Ubuntu-Linux: hey bud | 03:15 |
| tseng | Ubuntu-Linux: the developers have a nice, prioritized list of bug reports. so if you could just hang in patiently, someone will get around to yours | 03:16 |
| tseng | it doesnt help your case much by pestering people directly | 03:16 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i have d-i BUG | 03:16 |
| tseng | i have a kernel BUG | 03:16 |
| Kamion | so far the pestering means it's at the bottom of my priority list | 03:16 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux want to install ubuntu | ||
| chrisa | Ubuntu-Linux: You're not listening | 03:17 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux doesnt want to d/l d-i and do a net install | ||
| Ubuntu-Linux | i know | 03:17 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | but Kamion is in charge of d-i and person x is in chage of x | 03:18 |
| === stevey [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| azeem | Ubuntu-Linux: send a patch, like everybody else does | 03:18 |
| Kamion | Ubuntu-Linux: guess how many bugs that means I have | 03:18 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion which is in charge of y doesnt do x | 03:18 |
| chrisa | On a sidenote, I really hope "ubuntu-linux" is a default irc name for the clients and that he didn't actively choose that nick | 03:18 |
| chrisa | But that's just me... | 03:18 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: 2601? | 03:18 |
| Kamion | chrisa: it's not, as far as I know | 03:18 |
| bob2 | chrisa: it's not | 03:19 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux own ubuntu-linux | ||
| bob2 | chrisa: he was in #debian as GNU-Debian and shimon for a while, too | 03:19 |
| chrisa | bob2: sigh | 03:19 |
| === tseng sighs and goes to class | ||
| tseng | g'day boys and girls | 03:19 |
| thom | cya tseng | 03:19 |
| === kOoLiNuS [~ciclope@137.204.75.18] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Ubuntu-Linux | ok so how long till i can get ubuntu installed? | 03:22 |
| __daniel | Ubuntu-Linux, TRY to be patient - you won't achieve anything by pestering people | 03:23 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | or should i just d/l d-i and upgrade to ubuntu? | 03:23 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | __daniel: i know | 03:23 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i am waiting | 03:23 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i just want to know if i should goto sleep tonight and forget about it till sunday | 03:23 |
| azeem | Ubuntu-Linux: no, you are pestering. Waiting is without the 'how long till...?' part | 03:23 |
| chrisa | Yes, do that | 03:24 |
| chrisa | If you really cared, you'd just install woody and upgrade | 03:24 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i cant install woody | 03:27 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i need to install from 2.4.26 or later | 03:27 |
| chrisa | Then go to sleep | 03:27 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | because of drivers | 03:27 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | so should i d/l d-i net install? | 03:28 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: why you can't download the ISO? | 03:28 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | and add the ubuntu sources and upgrade? | 03:28 |
| __daniel | Ubuntu-Linux, try to | 03:28 |
| chrisa | Do what you want to do, staying here and pestering Kamion will get you nowhere | 03:28 |
| Kamion | Ubuntu-Linux: please do not upgrade the severity of that bug report again. | 03:28 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | which one pitti | 03:28 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: recently I installed a CD-ROM less laptop with the netboot images, that went fine | 03:28 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: i didnt | 03:28 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: which one? the release ones? | 03:29 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i just repily | 03:29 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i got no network | 03:29 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | but i can do debian d-i netinst | 03:29 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: then go ahead with that | 03:29 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | ok will there be any problem if i install from debian sarge d-i | 03:30 |
| Kamion | shimen@gmail.com changed: | 03:30 |
| Kamion | What |Removed |Added | 03:30 |
| Kamion | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 03:30 |
| Kamion | Severity|normal |blocker | 03:30 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | pitti: i am froced to use manbrake | 03:30 |
| bob2 | you're not forced to do anything | 03:31 |
| bob2 | if you can install sarge, you can move to ubuntu | 03:31 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: you can't download the ISO from anywhere? | 03:31 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: what setting should it be on my side | 03:31 |
| Kamion | Ubuntu-Linux: I changed it to normal. Please leave it there. | 03:31 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | pitti: my hdd died and it was the only cd i had i d/l and burned ubuntu | 03:31 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: so you _have_ an Ubuntu CD? | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: yea but on my side its still blocker and p5 | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | yes | 03:32 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: an older one perhaps? | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | the final | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | no latest | 03:32 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: ah, and this doesn't boot for you? | 03:32 |
| pitti | Ubuntu-Linux: you are the G5 guy? | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | it a fscking driver problem | 03:32 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | it does boot for me | 03:33 |
| Kamion | Ubuntu-Linux: reload. | 03:33 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | ptti MIND reading my bug | 03:33 |
| Kamion | 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801EB Ultra ATA Storage Controller (rev 02) | 03:33 |
| Kamion | that's strange, I can't see that in /usr/share/misc/pci.ids | 03:33 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | ohh | 03:33 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | wait | 03:33 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | i enabled emation of sata as pata | 03:34 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | does that matter? | 03:34 |
| === Ubuntu-Linux reboots goes from bios and see if it helps | ||
| Kamion | hm, maybe it's 808624db | 03:34 |
| Kamion | which is ide/piix in discover | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | *because i was using a 2.4 kernel and no FULL sata support | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | Kamion: so should i disable emalation | 03:35 |
| Kamion | worth a try | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | ok | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | brb | 03:35 |
| Kamion | also check that the piix and ata_piix modules are loaded | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | if i am not back in 4min then its working | 03:35 |
| Ubuntu-Linux | ok | 03:36 |
| dyn | please.. dont.. | 03:37 |
| __daniel | Kamion, i admire your patience :-) | 03:38 |
| Kamion | I don't have much of it left | 03:38 |
| __daniel | Kamion, i think you did quite well | 03:38 |
| === Sledge applauds Kamion for restraint | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | i think we will live with X11R6 until there is a better solution | 04:09 |
| fabbione | killing it now isn't an option without polluting * | 04:10 |
| azeem | better solution than X11R6 or better solution than what you thought up till now? | 04:10 |
| fabbione | azeem: read above :-) | 04:10 |
| fabbione | by policy we can't install into */X11 | 04:11 |
| azeem | oh, missed that, sorry | 04:11 |
| fabbione | azeem: if you have better ideas, please say so | 04:13 |
| azeem | then change policy :) | 04:13 |
| fabbione | it's not like i am closed mind | 04:13 |
| fabbione | azeem: that will take too long :-))) | 04:13 |
| azeem | well, I don't know about the dpkg limitation for using /usr/include/X11 directly, but that would be the cleanest IMHO | 04:13 |
| fabbione | and few flames all over | 04:14 |
| azeem | /usr/bin for binaries and perhaps a subdir for /usr/lib, whatever the name | 04:14 |
| fabbione | azeem: there are no limitations in using X11 in general | 04:14 |
| fabbione | but if i start creating subdirs around.. | 04:14 |
| azeem | well, the part about replacing a symlink | 04:14 |
| fabbione | i can just live with X11R6 | 04:14 |
| fabbione | see.. either we integrate everything inside the FHS (considering X11R6 not fHS compliant) | 04:15 |
| fabbione | or otherwise it's not worth the mess to just rename 2 directories/symlinks | 04:15 |
| azeem | having subdirs in /usr/{include,lib} is common practise for libraries | 04:15 |
| fabbione | (considering the amount of packages that use then) | 04:15 |
| azeem | having subdire in /usr is not | 04:15 |
| fabbione | true.. i don't disagree on this | 04:16 |
| azeem | perhaps you could swap it around and live compatiblity symlinks in /usr/X11R6 (pointing to /usr/{include,lib}/X11 for a while? | 04:16 |
| azeem | and then kill them off eventually | 04:17 |
| azeem | (like /usr/doc, hahaha) | 04:17 |
| fabbione | azeem: eventually = undetermined amount of time. | 04:17 |
| fabbione | no i am not that nice with other maintainers :-P | 04:17 |
| azeem | one release | 04:17 |
| azeem | which means, half a year for ubuntu and an undetermined amount of time for Debian | 04:18 |
| fabbione | azeem: another release = 6 months here and something between 4 to 10 years in debian | 04:18 |
| fabbione | exactly :P | 04:18 |
| === azeem ^5s fabbione | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| fabbione | no i think i will leave X11R6 for now | 04:18 |
| fabbione | the changes are too deep to be done by a single/two persons | 04:18 |
| fabbione | we need a team working on it. | 04:18 |
| fabbione | (without considering the amount of changes that the code requires) | 04:19 |
| azeem | what's wrong with swapping the symlinks around? Is there a technical problem with that? | 04:19 |
| fabbione | this definetly has to be done upstream | 04:19 |
| azeem | at least, that would set a signal that X11R6 is deprecated | 04:19 |
| fabbione | azeem: probably swapping them no. | 04:19 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091b81.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"] | ||
| Kamion | swapping the symlinks around requires some very hairy preinst code and probably has undetermined compatibility implications ... | 04:19 |
| fabbione | but i wonder when X12R1 will be out... | 04:19 |
| fabbione | and a big API change will take place | 04:20 |
| fabbione | it's going to be the hell storing includes all in /usr/include/X11 | 04:20 |
| fabbione | we need to be able to differenciate them | 04:20 |
| fabbione | at least... | 04:20 |
| azeem | well, X12R1 will have /usr/include/X12, no? | 04:21 |
| Kamion | X11 and X12 will *have* to be co-installable | 04:22 |
| Kamion | at least the libraries and preferably development packages | 04:22 |
| azeem | yeah | 04:22 |
| azeem | if you want the static libs to be parallel installable, but them in a subdir of /lib | 04:23 |
| azeem | eh, /usr/lib | 04:23 |
| bob2 | X12 is on the cards? | 04:23 |
| azeem | how do the other distributions handle this? Most of them have switched to x.org by now, havent' they? | 04:23 |
| fabbione | uh true :) | 04:23 |
| fabbione | azeem: yes. but i doubt they have remove X11R6 | 04:24 |
| azeem | we're at X11R8 or so right now? | 04:25 |
| fabbione | 6.8.1 | 04:25 |
| azeem | eh, aren't we at X11R8 or so right now? | 04:25 |
| azeem | ah | 04:25 |
| fabbione | X11R6 | 04:25 |
| azeem | sorry | 04:25 |
| azeem | so, X12 on the radar, or X11R7? | 04:25 |
| fabbione | nothing on the radar atm | 04:25 |
| fabbione | i am just pondering for the future | 04:25 |
| azeem | what compatibility promises have the X guys taken? | 04:26 |
| azeem | will they break binary compatibility with X11R7? | 04:26 |
| fabbione | they shouldn't... | 04:26 |
| fabbione | afaik | 04:26 |
| azeem | godd | 04:26 |
| azeem | eh, good | 04:26 |
| fabbione | i can't remember if RX was for the binary compatibility and X11 the version of the protocol | 04:27 |
| fabbione | so new version of the protocol breaks world | 04:27 |
| fabbione | and binary compatibility kinda | 04:27 |
| bob2 | when was the last time X broke compatibility? | 04:30 |
| bob2 | er, ABI. | 04:30 |
| fabbione | can't remember | 04:31 |
| fabbione | probably 3.3 -> 4.0 | 04:31 |
| bob2 | fabbione: did you have much to do with X before joining the XSF? | 04:31 |
| azeem | fabbione: what about you ask keithp for his opinion? Isn't he a DD now? | 04:32 |
| fabbione | bob2: no | 04:32 |
| fabbione | anyway removing /usr/include/X11 is not an option | 04:32 |
| bob2 | hah, wow, you got sucked in quick :-) | 04:32 |
| fabbione | some x packages build-deps on packages that pulls in other x packages | 04:32 |
| fabbione | including stuff in /usr/include/X11 | 04:33 |
| fabbione | azeem: i am still thinking... and more i think, more i am convinced that upstream is the first one that should do it | 04:33 |
| azeem | I don't see a need to remove /include/X11. Would you just dump everything in /include? | 04:33 |
| fabbione | azeem: if i dump everything in /usr/include it will be a mess | 04:34 |
| Kamion | azeem: you'd have to change every X program | 04:34 |
| fabbione | i still need a X11 symlink | 04:34 |
| Kamion | getting rid of /usr/include/X11/ would be broken | 04:35 |
| fabbione | #include <X11/foo.h> 0wns you | 04:35 |
| fabbione | and switching it from a symlink to a dir will make X or X.org unbuildable | 04:35 |
| fabbione | wow | 04:35 |
| pitti | fabbione: right, so what exactly is wrong with /usr/include/X11? Just because it's a symlink? | 04:36 |
| fabbione | i guess we will live with X11R6 :-) | 04:36 |
| fabbione | pitti: no | 04:36 |
| pitti | fabbione: okay, you just answered. | 04:36 |
| azeem | fabbione: at least mandrake still uses X11R6, I just asked | 04:37 |
| azeem | probably the others as well. So I guess it's the right way for now | 04:37 |
| fabbione | yeps | 04:39 |
| === fabbione reverts the changes | ||
| azeem | fabbione: anyway, why would switching /usr/include/X11 from a symlink to a dir make X or X.org unbuildable? | 04:41 |
| fabbione | azeem: because almost all the documentation requires groff | 04:41 |
| fabbione | and groff pulls in several X stuff | 04:41 |
| fabbione | including things in /usr/X11R6/include | 04:42 |
| azeem | oh, circular Build-Depends? | 04:42 |
| fabbione | yeps | 04:42 |
| azeem | suck | 04:42 |
| fabbione | if we fuck up one upload nobody will build anything for a long while | 04:42 |
| Kamion | uh, the groff source package has documentation of how to avoid the X build-dependency | 04:43 |
| Kamion | but yes, groff is just one example of the zillion programs that want /usr/include/X11/ | 04:43 |
| fabbione | Kamion: than i will need a xgroff to build x | 04:44 |
| Kamion | ? | 04:44 |
| fabbione | groff simply depends on these packages | 04:44 |
| Kamion | no you don't, you build groff with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=groff-no-x11, then you build X, then you build groff properly | 04:44 |
| fabbione | Kamion: so you need a temporary groff around | 04:44 |
| Kamion | yes, welcome to bootstrapping | 04:45 |
| Kamion | it's only gxditview that needs X11 | 04:45 |
| fabbione | Kamion: it would be easier for me to create a anti-x-groff and upload it :-) | 04:46 |
| Kamion | and die shortly afterwards :) | 04:47 |
| Kamion | tetex is no different | 04:47 |
| Kamion | you need it for some of the docs too AIUI, but it build-deps on X | 04:48 |
| fabbione | yeah i also build-dep on tetex | 04:48 |
| fabbione | and X build-deps on it | 04:48 |
| azeem | well, I believe this circular Build-Dep is not a very good reason to keep X11R6 alive, in case we agree it should in principle die | 04:48 |
| fabbione | cool, isn't it? | 04:48 |
| Kamion | groff doesn't pull stuff in from /usr/X11R6/include/ directly though, it uses the symlink | 04:48 |
| elmo_ | fabbione: okay, the security stuff is in theory done - if you don't mind, I'd like to wait for mdz to ack it before you start using it | 04:48 |
| fabbione | elmo_: sure i don't mind | 04:49 |
| kylem | wow. that installation went well. good work guys. | 04:49 |
| fabbione | elmo_: i am not sure for how long i can stay around | 04:49 |
| fabbione | elmo_: in the worst case we will do tomorrow | 04:49 |
| elmo_ | fabbione: well, can you put your upload somewhere so matt could upload, it and try the new mechanism out? | 04:50 |
| fabbione | elmo_: otherwise i can just handover the packages to pitti since he will take care of security | 04:50 |
| fabbione | elmo_: sure | 04:50 |
| fabbione | azeem: anyway i have a very limited amount of time | 04:53 |
| fabbione | azeem: i need a decision asap | 04:53 |
| fabbione | and i think that for the next 6 months we can live with X11R6 | 04:53 |
| fabbione | we had it around for ages | 04:53 |
| fabbione | 6 months more or 6 months less won't kill anybody | 04:53 |
| fabbione | and etch will not be released by that | 04:54 |
| azeem | fabbione: well, I'd talk to keithp and the rest of the x.org maintainers whether they ponder changing that general X11R6 prefix | 04:54 |
| fabbione | azeem: i know daniels did all these changes in his tree | 04:56 |
| fabbione | azeem: but the problem is i dunno how robusts they are | 04:56 |
| fabbione | and he only built xc/lib/ | 04:56 |
| fabbione | not xc/* | 04:56 |
| azeem | maybe it really is the best to wait for the modular X before killing X11R6 | 04:56 |
| fabbione | yeah | 04:57 |
| fabbione | i agree | 04:57 |
| === azeem_ [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz_ | elmo_: what kind of ack do you need? | 05:01 |
| elmo_ | mdz: err, see your mail? just that your happy with it? also, per your instructions, you're the only one who can run amber atm | 05:02 |
| mdz_ | elmo_: no, just got up, haven't read it yet | 05:02 |
| elmo_ | ok | 05:02 |
| === wartylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Warty Day! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | please test http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso so it can be warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by lamont at Thu Oct 21 07:35:46 2004 | ||
| (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) the problem with Debian is that they're not progressive enough. if they opened it up to, say, hip-hop artists and dnb producers ... | 07:19 | |
| (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hence, also, the sounder@ mailing list | 07:19 | |
| (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) doogie: but humour nevertheless, and it's what we have. | 07:19 | |
| (doogie/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: *the* problem with debian? | 07:19 | |
| azeem | everything else would be solved instantly if we s/etch/rakim/ | 07:21 |
| bob2 | mix master etch | 07:22 |
| lamont | Kamion: apparently d-i doesn't like empty Packages files either... | 07:23 |
| Kamion | lamont: empty Packages files where? | 07:23 |
| lamont | my mirror | 07:23 |
| Kamion | d'oh | 07:24 |
| doogie | bob2: don't start | 07:24 |
| doogie | maybe there should be theme music with each release? | 07:24 |
| lamont | I didn't tell it to mirror anything from multiverse, but did tell it about the component. --> 0 length Packages file. And a coaster. :-( | 07:24 |
| daniels | doogie: we ship an ubuntu-sounds package with default sounds | 07:24 |
| === lamont lunches | ||
| doogie | daniels: not what I meant. | 07:24 |
| bob2 | doogie: it would combine the best features of Debian and OpenBSD | 07:24 |
| doogie | I mean each release has a custom mix track, or some such | 07:24 |
| Kamion | lamont: cdimage doesn't mirror universe or multiverse at all ... | 07:25 |
| === ph [~ph@pD9E10544.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz_ | lamont: is 1021-06 the latest live CD candidate? | 07:36 |
| === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| amu | mdz_: yes | 07:44 |
| === T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| T-Bone | hi | 07:44 |
| mdz_ | downloading it to test | 07:48 |
| T-Bone | Kamion: ping? | 07:51 |
| Kamion | T-Bone: yep? | 07:52 |
| T-Bone | Kamion: do you want to do the "setup" now or tomorrow? | 07:53 |
| Kamion | T-Bone: now's fine, just going to grab a bite to eat | 07:54 |
| T-Bone | ok | 07:54 |
| T-Bone | i'll wait ;) | 07:54 |
| Kamion | but tell me what you need and I'll catch up | 07:54 |
| === x4m [~max@215.154-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| T-Bone | Kamion: actually i need _you_ to tell me what you need ;) | 07:55 |
| Kamion | hm, ok | 07:59 |
| T-Bone | that includes material and tasks you'd like me to work on ;) | 08:00 |
| Kamion | well, the other day I think I said that I'd like to be able to drop in a new netboot kernel and initrd, reboot remotely from that image, and have remote access to its console. | 08:00 |
| T-Bone | so you need dhcp server | 08:00 |
| Kamion | right | 08:00 |
| T-Bone | ok | 08:00 |
| T-Bone | i have a server already setup, i'll give you access to it | 08:01 |
| T-Bone | so if you just need that and the ia64 box, i need a ssh2 public key, and a login | 08:01 |
| Kamion | the other things we need to put together for d-i are: linux-kernel-di-ia64-2.6 package based on the Ubuntu kernel, ports of all the bootloader installer and partitioner component packages from Debian, and probably additions of ia64 to a few lists | 08:02 |
| Kamion | login name cjwatson, where can I mail the key? | 08:02 |
| T-Bone | varenet@debian.org | 08:02 |
| Kamion | it'll be a while before I can actually start using this for testing of course, so the buildd work is higher-priority | 08:03 |
| T-Bone | yeah i got that | 08:03 |
| === plovs [~plovs@62.84.21.44] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| T-Bone | unfortunately i need lamont's skills now, cause i hit something strange that _shouldn't_ have happened. We are waiting for him to complete stage1 as well and see if he has the same problem | 08:04 |
| hornbeck | hey plovs | 08:04 |
| Kamion | mailed | 08:04 |
| T-Bone | thx | 08:04 |
| Kamion | will need to figure out what needs to change in debian-installer to port the ia64 initrds to Ubuntu | 08:04 |
| Kamion | I only did the changes for the arches we support | 08:04 |
| T-Bone | k | 08:05 |
| Kamion | think it should all be fairly easy, anyway, amd64 wasn't hard | 08:05 |
| Kamion | i386 and powerpc were hard because they were the first ones. :) | 08:06 |
| T-Bone | hehe | 08:06 |
| Kamion | partman-efi, efi-reader, and elilo-installer are clean of possible debconf-priority damage, too; good | 08:07 |
| T-Bone | yeap | 08:07 |
| Kamion | but elilo-installer will need to be Ubuntu-branded. | 08:07 |
| T-Bone | right | 08:07 |
| mdz_ | justdave: ping? | 08:10 |
| Kamion | hm, and partman-efi needs branding too | 08:11 |
| Kamion | joy and rapture | 08:11 |
| T-Bone | hehe | 08:11 |
| === _danny__ [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === _danny__ is now known as sivang | ||
| === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| hornbeck | plovs: I agree that Mulligan is doing good doc work | 08:22 |
| mdz_ | lamont, amu: 1021-06 looks good to me | 08:23 |
| justdave | mdz_: pong | 08:23 |
| plovs | yeah, we might ask hi to join, join the wiki-team page in a how-to use the wiki and wiki notespage | 08:23 |
| mdz | justdave: is it possible to change the default on the "find a specific bug" page to search all bugs, open and closed? | 08:23 |
| mdz | justdave: and just have it sort open bugs ahead of closed ones? | 08:23 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I agree, if we go and split a small team like doc already we are in for trouble | 08:24 |
| justdave | changing the default on the open/closed state to all is easy. changing the default sort can probably be done, but isn't so easy | 08:24 |
| sivang | So, a wiki team under doc team? :) | 08:24 |
| hornbeck | sivang: I am suggesting we just try to get him to work with us, and that the wiki maintanance should just go along with with docs | 08:25 |
| plovs | under sounds bad, let's say the wiki-team will spearhead the doc-team | 08:25 |
| hornbeck | I say no wikiteam | 08:25 |
| hornbeck | there is a doc team | 08:25 |
| hornbeck | we do docs | 08:25 |
| hornbeck | wiki is a doc | 08:25 |
| sivang | hornbeck : who is he? | 08:25 |
| plovs | agreed | 08:26 |
| sivang | who are we talking about? :) | 08:26 |
| hornbeck | sivang: KevinMulligan | 08:26 |
| plovs | http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KevinMulligan | 08:26 |
| hornbeck | if he is here please speak up | 08:26 |
| plovs | there was a thread on the mailinglist also let me find it ... brb | 08:26 |
| hornbeck | ok | 08:26 |
| plovs | ask in #ubuntu | 08:26 |
| hornbeck | I will search real quick | 08:27 |
| mdz | justdave: can you change the open/closed default, and look into the sort? | 08:27 |
| mdz | justdave: let me know if you'd prefer I filed a bug about this request | 08:27 |
| sivang | ok, I read his page | 08:27 |
| hornbeck | plovs: his mail must have come when I changed to my new computer | 08:28 |
| hornbeck | I have a reply but that is it | 08:28 |
| === sivang is way lagged after the list. checking now. | ||
| seb128 | mdz: have you tested the current liveCD ? The localisation is fine ? I've downloaded it yesterday and the french localisation is broken ... | 08:29 |
| plovs | i love gmail, found it in 3 seconds | 08:29 |
| mdz | seb128: I did not test French localisation | 08:29 |
| mdz | but it works for me in the default english locale | 08:29 |
| seb128 | could you test ? | 08:29 |
| seb128 | but I get such messages "locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory" | 08:30 |
| seb128 | and the apps (panel, evo, ...) are not in french | 08:30 |
| plovs | DOC it seems it is only one guy, we might just send him a mail | 08:30 |
| plovs | or we can write on his page, maybe i'll do that if you guys agree | 08:30 |
| hornbeck | plovs: do you want to mail him? | 08:30 |
| seb128 | and LANG=fr_FR@euro according to "locale" | 08:31 |
| hornbeck | plovs: that might be good | 08:31 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-111-58.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | seb128: /usr/lib/locale is empty | 08:31 |
| mdz | seb128: no locales are generated | 08:31 |
| plovs | sure i'll mail him and ask to add himself to the doc-team | 08:31 |
| hornbeck | plovs: tell him also that we think it might be bad to make multiple teams when it comes to docs | 08:31 |
| justdave | ok, turns out the sort order was trivial to fix, after all. | 08:31 |
| justdave | all done | 08:31 |
| mdz | thanks | 08:32 |
| hornbeck | man beagle is rocking | 08:32 |
| justdave | it was specified in the form, not in the cgi :) | 08:32 |
| mdz | seb128: I get the same errors | 08:32 |
| seb128 | ok | 08:33 |
| === justdave tweaks it to sort on resolution instead of status | ||
| mdz | seb128: it gets EACCES opening /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 08:33 |
| justdave | so all open bugs will still be sorted by relevance | 08:33 |
| mdz | seb128: after I've run locale-gen | 08:33 |
| justdave | regardless of status | 08:33 |
| seb128 | hum, weird | 08:33 |
| mdz | seb128: it is mode 600 | 08:33 |
| mdz | seb128: so I changed it to 644 | 08:34 |
| mdz | seb128: and now evolution is in French | 08:34 |
| seb128 | ok | 08:34 |
| hornbeck | sivang: is the gnome-guide mainly what you are working on? | 08:34 |
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| mdz | seb128: what procedure did you use to set your locale on the live CD? | 08:34 |
| mdz | seb128: dpkg-reconfigure locales? | 08:34 |
| seb128 | mdz: no, I've just picked Submenu -> Supported languages in the boot screen | 08:35 |
| sivang | hornbeck : currently yes, I Have also pending works on the wiki, would appriciate if you could continue with it a bit | 08:35 |
| seb128 | and then french | 08:35 |
| mdz | or is there something at the morphix boot prompt which sets it? | 08:35 |
| mdz | ah | 08:35 |
| mdz | I'll check if that has the same problem | 08:35 |
| hornbeck | sivang: continue with the guide? | 08:35 |
| seb128 | I'm restarting the liveCD on a box right now | 08:35 |
| sivang | hornbeck : yes, if you could I'd appriciate it. | 08:35 |
| seb128 | mdz: in fact a french user pinged me about this. According to him it was working fine with the version is download some days ago | 08:35 |
| hornbeck | sivang: just resend to me and I will see what I can do | 08:36 |
| sivang | hornbeck : ok, do you want diffs also, or do you want to wait for 2.8.1 docs altogether maybe? | 08:36 |
| hornbeck | sivang: just send me your diffs | 08:36 |
| hornbeck | or the whole folder | 08:36 |
| hornbeck | does not matter | 08:37 |
| sivang | ok | 08:37 |
| plovs | hornbeck: sivang what do you guys think about the kind of layout for wiki-pages? | 08:37 |
| hornbeck | plovs: are you talking about a standard? | 08:37 |
| sivang | the current layout is not good enough? | 08:38 |
| hornbeck | plovs,sivang: I think we need to standardize all the pages, to use same formats | 08:38 |
| plovs | pages look all a little different and we just began, it is now or never | 08:39 |
| sivang | plovs : gemme some examples | 08:39 |
| plovs | when we have 2000+ pages it might be a little late | 08:39 |
| hornbeck | plovs: they all need to look the same | 08:39 |
| plovs | sivang: just a sec | 08:39 |
| === vorlon_ is now known as vorlon | ||
| mdz | seb128: confirmed, I get English if I boot with the French option | 08:40 |
| mdz | err | 08:40 |
| mdz | never mind | 08:40 |
| mdz | seb128: it works | 08:40 |
| seb128 | oh ? | 08:40 |
| mdz | it's just that the computer menu is not localised | 08:40 |
| hornbeck | plovs: it will be impossable to make them identical, but we can at least make the standards the same | 08:40 |
| mdz | nor is "applications" or "computer" | 08:40 |
| mdz | but the menu items under applications are localised | 08:40 |
| seb128 | mdz: yes, these are .desktop files | 08:40 |
| seb128 | not po files | 08:40 |
| seb128 | nothing to do with the locales | 08:40 |
| mdz | ah | 08:40 |
| mdz | and evolution is not localised | 08:40 |
| seb128 | yes | 08:40 |
| mdz | and it has given me a French keyboard layout it seems :-) | 08:41 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| plovs | sivang: compare http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BasicCommands with http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BeagleInstallHowto | 08:41 |
| mdz | seb128: it is the same bug | 08:41 |
| plovs | different styles | 08:41 |
| plovs | not big differences but stil... | 08:41 |
| hornbeck | plovs: both are my pages :) | 08:41 |
| mdz | seb128: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive is -rw------- | 08:42 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I have not changed the basiccommands page yet | 08:42 |
| mdz | seb128: please file it in bugzilla | 08:42 |
| plovs | hornbeck: :) i know | 08:42 |
| plovs | hornbeck: i like the beaglepage | 08:42 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I have been working on the beaglepage nonstop because new stuff keeps happening | 08:42 |
| seb128 | mdz: ok, thanks | 08:42 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I need to remake the whole BasicCommands page | 08:43 |
| plovs | it rocks, i want to do it all the time, but have no time | 08:43 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I know how that is | 08:43 |
| plovs | sivang: what if we make the beaglepage layout the basic layout? | 08:44 |
| sivang | plovs : I like it better, yes. | 08:44 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I think that would work | 08:44 |
| plovs | we can make an empty howto page called DocumentationHowto and point to it | 08:44 |
| sivang | well, have a look at /HowDoc | 08:44 |
| sivang | hornbeck : If I recall right your comments about the laytout, you want everything that needs be typed to be in a "code" box right? | 08:45 |
| hornbeck | sivang: yes | 08:45 |
| plovs | sivang: it is easier to copy and paste from there | 08:46 |
| hornbeck | sivang, plovs: it makes it easier to copy and paste sections | 08:46 |
| plovs | and it looks nice :) | 08:46 |
| hornbeck | :) | 08:46 |
| plovs | sivang: but whatever we do it looks best if it is the same | 08:46 |
| sivang | ok, I suggest we streamline it as so. I will modify HowDoc accordingly | 08:47 |
| hornbeck | plovs, sivang: is someone going to note all this stuff? | 08:47 |
| sivang | hornbeck : I am , see the line before :) | 08:48 |
| hornbeck | sivang: I read right as I was hitting enter | 08:48 |
| plovs | sivang: nice, will you make DocumentationHowto? | 08:48 |
| plovs | or should I do it? | 08:49 |
| hornbeck | HowDoc is basicly a DocumentationHowto | 08:49 |
| hornbeck | http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HowDoc | 08:49 |
| hornbeck | maybe needs a name change? | 08:49 |
| hornbeck | since we are mainly going with Howto at the end of howto's | 08:49 |
| plovs | what we can do is making DocumentationHowto and use [[IncludePage()] ] to put it inside HowDoc | 08:51 |
| hornbeck | plovs: good idea | 08:51 |
| hornbeck | plovs: is there a good wiki howto out there/ | 08:51 |
| hornbeck | ? | 08:51 |
| hornbeck | I am learning wiki markup as we go | 08:51 |
| plovs | hornbeck: brb | 08:52 |
| hornbeck | ok | 08:52 |
| plovs | hornbeck: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HelpIndex | 08:52 |
| plovs | hornbeck: especially HelpOnMacros | 08:52 |
| plovs | hornbeck: and HelpOnMacros | 08:53 |
| hornbeck | plovs: thanks | 08:53 |
| plovs | hornbeck: the include is a little broken you can only include whole pages | 08:54 |
| plovs | hornbeck: moin 1.3 will/should solve that | 08:54 |
| hornbeck | ok | 08:54 |
| hornbeck | should we just rename that page? | 08:54 |
| hornbeck | than just add new stuff to it | 08:54 |
| hornbeck | have a '''wiki howto''' '''docbook howto''' all on the same page? | 08:55 |
| hornbeck | a stop shop | 08:55 |
| plovs | look at CategoryCategory , you can just make an automatic list | 08:55 |
| hornbeck | you lost me | 08:56 |
| hornbeck | link | 08:57 |
| plovs | if you look at the page-source you'll see it's just two lines | 08:58 |
| plovs | so you can make a HowtoPage with an automatic links to all howto's | 08:58 |
| plovs | something like that | 08:58 |
| hornbeck | ahh | 08:58 |
| hornbeck | ok | 08:58 |
| hornbeck | but the main question is, should we just be HowDoc into DocumentationHowto | 08:59 |
| hornbeck | sivang? | 08:59 |
| hornbeck | I think it makes more since | 08:59 |
| sivang | yes, I think of HowDoc to be both for offline stuff we do, and wiki content guidline. have 2 sections on that. | 08:59 |
| hornbeck | sivang: a rename though? | 09:00 |
| sivang | oh, you want it to have HowTo at the end | 09:00 |
| sivang | yes | 09:00 |
| sivang | :) | 09:00 |
| plovs | hornbeck: a howto is usually short and to the point (kernel howto is too long) | 09:00 |
| sivang | for the catrgorization to work. | 09:00 |
| === x4m [~max@67-110.241.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| plovs | hornbeck: a document is long and detailed | 09:00 |
| plovs | hornbeck: i *think* | 09:00 |
| hornbeck | plovs: DocDoc than? | 09:00 |
| hornbeck | :) | 09:00 |
| hornbeck | plovs: kernel howto is long no matter what | 09:01 |
| plovs | what about ending doc-stuff in Doc or Document? | 09:01 |
| plovs | hornbeck: there are three kernel-pages already, that needs cleaning up | 09:01 |
| hornbeck | DocumentationDoc? | 09:01 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I noticed today | 09:01 |
| plovs | WritingGuidelinesDoc ? | 09:02 |
| hornbeck | plovs: the one I made was made real nice | 09:02 |
| hornbeck | plovs: that works | 09:02 |
| hornbeck | shoudl the kernelhowto be made KernelInstallDoc? | 09:02 |
| plovs | yes that's better i think | 09:04 |
| hornbeck | make it so | 09:04 |
| sivang | btw, I think the wiki team falls nicely under the "documentation sounder team" accoridng to the outlined tasks it carries | 09:04 |
| plovs | sivang: what do you think Howto pages and Doc pages? | 09:04 |
| sivang | plovs : well, actually I think that big docs should be shorty incorporated into PLone CMS, and the wiki should be acting more of a bleeding edge corner and docdevel works | 09:05 |
| hornbeck | sivang: we are not at that area yet, but what do you think for right now | 09:06 |
| sivang | hornbeck : yes it's good, then we should have 2 indexes for Guides / Howtos. Like on http://www.debian.org/doc/ | 09:07 |
| hornbeck | sivang: I agree | 09:08 |
| plovs | sivang: i agree, but in wiki, they can be worked on. | 09:10 |
| plovs | what about something like: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/AlexanderPoslavsky_2fPlayGround | 09:11 |
| plovs | and then one for the docs | 09:11 |
| plovs | feel free to mess up that page | 09:11 |
| plovs | hornbeck: how good are you at python? | 09:12 |
| hornbeck | plovs: decent | 09:12 |
| hornbeck | I do alot of it for my jobs | 09:12 |
| hornbeck | plovs: why you ask? | 09:13 |
| plovs | hornbeck: i played around with a moin2docbook.py thingie but i'm just starting with python | 09:13 |
| hornbeck | plovs: did you write it? | 09:13 |
| plovs | hornbeck: i wrote open file, close file check parameters ... so no, not yet | 09:14 |
| plovs | hornbeck: i am trying to understand classes | 09:14 |
| hornbeck | plovs: if that is something you would like to work on together, send me what you have and we can work on it | 09:14 |
| hornbeck | brb have to order books for my classes | 09:15 |
| plovs | sivang: yes, like the debian guys | 09:17 |
| sivang | plovs : actually the python classes are the nicest and most straightforward I've seen compared to Java, C++ etc | 09:18 |
| plovs | sivang: that says something about my programming :( | 09:19 |
| sivang | plovs : no, you might no thave any other introduction to OOP langs, so that might explain it :) | 09:19 |
| plovs | sivang: it is the first time, and i need more time to read it | 09:20 |
| plovs | sivang: how difficult is it to make yelp docs? | 09:20 |
| sivang | sivang : but you'll catch on fast, if you programmed before - take "Dive into python" by Mark Pilgream , very good | 09:20 |
| sivang | plovs : actually, you just learn the DTD and that's it. You're writing XML | 09:21 |
| plovs | sivang: i have it installed :) | 09:21 |
| hornbeck | ok, I am back | 09:21 |
| plovs | sivang: if we could write this converter then we could just convert wiki pages (they are really basic) to XML | 09:21 |
| sivang | plovs : you can do some work on the manual, it teaches you about the dtd as you see al those tags for representing menu choises, items. | 09:21 |
| plovs | sivang: *the* manual? | 09:22 |
| sivang | plovs : Yes, I have talked with Enrico about that - We might have the Plone CMS team to do this for us maybe | 09:22 |
| sivang | :) | 09:22 |
| plovs | sivang: duh, what manual? | 09:22 |
| hornbeck | plovs: we can work on it, if someone else does it, it will at least give you some experiance with python | 09:23 |
| sivang | plovs : yes, the gnome official needs some adjustments and modification to nicely follow Ubuntu's desktop looks and actions. | 09:23 |
| hornbeck | plovs: also Docbook is easy | 09:23 |
| hornbeck | just follow what is already there, for most manuals | 09:23 |
| plovs | sivang: i am trying to concentrate on two things, my wife is explaining diets and recipes to me from the second computer | 09:23 |
| === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| hornbeck | plovs: I understand that :) | 09:24 |
| plovs | hornbeck: how would you go about converting a file from moin to docbook? i have a look for line in file with lot of re.match | 09:25 |
| hornbeck | I have wife and two kids, who talk to me while I do all this | 09:25 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I would have to start hacking on it honestly, I am not a good enough programmer to explain it off the top of my head | 09:25 |
| hornbeck | I am more of a hit or miss guy, learn as I go | 09:26 |
| plovs | hornbeck: well, i'll write some more and thn send it, it would be nice to get a converter | 09:27 |
| hornbeck | plovs: cool | 09:27 |
| hornbeck | plovs: if you want to learn docbook work on the gnome-guide with sivang | 09:27 |
| hornbeck | its a good starting place | 09:27 |
| plovs | sivang: can yelp use non-local =internet files? | 09:28 |
| hornbeck | yelp just reads DTD as far as I know | 09:28 |
| sivang | plovs : lemme ask it's developer for a sec :) | 09:28 |
| plovs | sivang: do you hve some simple task? | 09:29 |
| sivang | plovs : no it can't, and won't. | 09:30 |
| plovs | sivang: less is more, i should have guessed, this is not kde | 09:30 |
| hornbeck | sivang: are you in #docs? | 09:30 |
| === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | hornbeck : yes | 09:34 |
| plovs | sivang: i could take HowDoc from common approach, and put it in DocHowto, and the | 09:34 |
| plovs | n link it back | 09:34 |
| sivang | plovs : ok | 09:34 |
| plovs | hornbeck: sivang what page do we use for suggestions to the documentation team? | 09:39 |
| hornbeck | hmm | 09:40 |
| hornbeck | DocSuggestions | 09:40 |
| hornbeck | hows that sound? | 09:40 |
| mdz | does anyone here have a copy of vmware? | 09:42 |
| hornbeck | plovs: sivang: are we renameing HowDoc and the KernelHowto? | 09:42 |
| hornbeck | I have 4.5 for linux somewhere mdz | 09:42 |
| mdz | hornbeck: if it is the eval version, is it possible for me to get a copy? | 09:42 |
| mdz | I'm trying to track down this bug: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2492 | 09:43 |
| hornbeck | mdz: you can download the eval version | 09:43 |
| mdz | not without registering on their website, getting an evaluation key, etc. | 09:43 |
| mdz | I just want to look at some of the files | 09:44 |
| mdz | and see if it is doing what I suspect it may be | 09:44 |
| hornbeck | I don't have a eval version | 09:44 |
| hornbeck | I can get the eval version for you if you want | 09:44 |
| mdz | can you look and see if it changes the samba startup links? | 09:44 |
| hornbeck | I will have to install, I have it on disk right now | 09:45 |
| hornbeck | I got it along time ago, when I still used windows some | 09:45 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | hornbeck : what's the software ? | 09:46 |
| hornbeck | vmware | 09:47 |
| sivang | mdz : I am running samba on this machine, should I try and upgrade and test it? | 09:50 |
| hornbeck | mdz: I can send to you with reg code if you would like | 09:50 |
| hornbeck | I just started download and got registered | 09:50 |
| pitti | elmo_, mdz: can I put the security packages somewhere, so that either of you can upload them? I'm going to bed soon | 09:50 |
| sivang | I have upgraded samba while it was still running, wasn't able to reproduce. | 09:54 |
| hornbeck | mdz: I now have the eval copy with reg code. Do you want me to send to you? | 09:55 |
| hornbeck | I am not running samba so I would not be able to test | 09:55 |
| hornbeck | plovs: you still around? | 09:57 |
| hornbeck | sivang? | 10:00 |
| sivang | hornbeck : yes | 10:01 |
| hornbeck | ok, no one was answering so I was wondering if I was still connected | 10:01 |
| hornbeck | :) | 10:01 |
| hornbeck | well I am off to work | 10:02 |
| hornbeck | night | 10:02 |
| sivang | night hornbeck | 10:03 |
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| mxpxpod | chrisa: ping | 10:06 |
| === ploum [~ploum@21-24.CampusNet.ucl.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| ploum | I just want to thanks all developpers and Mark for the wonderful Warty release. Good job guys, it's really great ! | 10:09 |
| plovs | hornbeck: sorry, yes | 10:12 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I wanted to say keep up the good work :) | 10:13 |
| plovs | hornbeck: goodnight :) ! | 10:13 |
| hornbeck | night | 10:13 |
| plovs | sivang: good night! | 10:13 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-111-58.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| sivang | plovs : night | 10:13 |
| mdz | ploum: thanks :-) | 10:15 |
| hornbeck | mdz: you want the vmware? | 10:16 |
| mdz | hornbeck: sure, thanks | 10:16 |
| mdz | sivang: if you have vmware installed, yes, that would be a good test | 10:16 |
| sivang | mdz : installing in the background | 10:17 |
| mdz | hornbeck: dcc won't work; I'm behind a firewall here | 10:18 |
| hornbeck | how can I get it to you? | 10:18 |
| mdz | hornbeck: I just finished drafting a short howto on how to use the community support resources, in the wiki | 10:18 |
| mdz | HowToGetHelp | 10:19 |
| mdz | hornbeck: I'd be interested in your feedback | 10:19 |
| hornbeck | ok | 10:19 |
| sivang | mdz : I'll give it a look also :) | 10:19 |
| hornbeck | mdz: you get my pm? | 10:19 |
| hornbeck | mdz: nice use of eric raymond site | 10:21 |
| hornbeck | mdz: adding a link to the doc howto at the bottom would help when saying "or how about a howto article" and have the link to the dochowto | 10:22 |
| mdz | hornbeck: by all means | 10:23 |
| hornbeck | mdz: added | 10:24 |
| mdz | thanks | 10:24 |
| hornbeck | well all, I really have to go now | 10:24 |
| hornbeck | goodnight | 10:24 |
| mdz | I've tried the vmware eval download about 20 times and it's no good | 10:25 |
| mdz | I'll keep fiddling :-) | 10:25 |
| mdz | night | 10:25 |
| hornbeck | hmmm | 10:25 |
| hornbeck | keep working at it :) | 10:25 |
| === hornbeck is now known as hornbeck|away | ||
| theantix | any idea why there is no php4-common in Ubuntu like there is in Debian Sid? some universe packages depend on it... any developer I can talk to about the reasons for that or any workaround? | 10:25 |
| mako | hornbeck|away: great stuff | 10:25 |
| sivang | mdz : you tried the tarball? | 10:26 |
| mdz | sivang: no, I'm trying to download it | 10:26 |
| mdz | I was hoping to find someone who already had a copy and could poke around and see if it does anything nasty to /etc/rc?.d | 10:27 |
| sivang | mdz : I suppose it does. It always added stuff to bootup scripts when I Used it on sarge,sid and RH | 10:27 |
| mdz | sivang: ls -l /etc/rc?.d/K09samba | 10:27 |
| mdz | if that file exists, that's a good clue | 10:28 |
| sivang | mdz : after I install it :) I will | 10:28 |
| mdz | ah | 10:28 |
| === lamont_r [lamont@dialup-4.225.207.204.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont_r | seb128 around? | 10:30 |
| sivang | mdz : "read the FAQ" is broken on Plone, I opened a bug on it on bugzilla but till isn't corrected | 10:31 |
| sivang | mdz : the link you pointed from the wikie | 10:31 |
| seb128 | lamont_r: yes | 10:31 |
| lamont_r | how does /usr/lib/locale/fr get populated? | 10:32 |
| mdz | sivang: fixed the link, thanks | 10:32 |
| lamont_r | and btw, the french keyboard is just plain screwed up. | 10:32 |
| sivang | mdz : no prob. this is also referenced from _within_ the plone somewhere. | 10:32 |
| lamont_r | I mean layout-wise, that is | 10:32 |
| seb128 | lamont_r: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive you mean ? | 10:33 |
| lamont_r | the errors from strace indicate that it's tryting to open /usr/lib/locale/fr/LC_* | 10:33 |
| seb128 | lamont_r: have you read your mails (#2292) ? | 10:34 |
| seb128 | oups | 10:34 |
| seb128 | 2614 I mean | 10:35 |
| lamont_r | not yet | 10:35 |
| seb128 | the problem is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive being 600 | 10:35 |
| seb128 | (thanks mdz for finding this) | 10:35 |
| seb128 | chmod 644 it and that works fine | 10:36 |
| lamont_r | on the liveCD? | 10:36 |
| seb128 | yes | 10:37 |
| === lamont_r adds a 'umask 0' to the build process, and pushes things to the top of the hill | ||
| === mdz gapes | ||
| mdz | lamont_r: that file is created dynamically during boot | 10:37 |
| mdz | must be | 10:37 |
| lamont_r | ah, ok. | 10:37 |
| mdz | not that umask 0 would be a good idea _anyway_...:-) | 10:38 |
| lamont_r | means I'll have to go find that. | 10:38 |
| seb128 | it is, depending of the locale selected in the menu | 10:38 |
| lamont_r | just knew that i have 022 , which still wouldn't explain it... | 10:38 |
| amu | lamont_r: problem ( warning ) with booting, umount: /.dev not found ; rmdir: invalid option --f; can't create /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.leases: Read-only file system; alsactl: load_state:1134: No soundcards found ... | 10:38 |
| lamont_r | is anything getting 077 as a umask? | 10:38 |
| lamont_r | amu: we're ignoring the leases file issue | 10:38 |
| lamont_r | but rmdir -f could use some staring at | 10:38 |
| mdz | that file wouldn't be there after a reboot anyway :-) | 10:38 |
| amu | lamont_r: i took screenshots | 10:39 |
| lamont_r | right - that's because we switched from pump to dhclient3... | 10:39 |
| lamont_r | amu: cool | 10:39 |
| === lamont_r is sitting at the mechanics and using dialup. | ||
| mdz | something must be calling localedef or locale-gen somewhere in the boot process | 10:39 |
| lamont_r | hence testing is gonna be a bitch | 10:39 |
| mdz | based on the lang= boot parameter | 10:39 |
| lamont_r | mdz: yes. | 10:39 |
| amu | grubsplash you should wait min. 60sec. instead of 5 | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | right before it starts pcmcia | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | amu: hell no | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | use case is enduser, not technical people. | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | end user doesn't want the 1 min wasted time | 10:40 |
| amu | lamont_r: process bar is ok now ;) | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | this was discussed wrt the installed box quite a whileback | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | amu: jdub fixed that last night | 10:40 |
| lamont_r | mdz: do we care that gnome takes forever to come up under some situation involving no link? | 10:41 |
| lamont_r | link beat, that is. | 10:41 |
| amu | lamont_r: ok, we should note that in a part of the faq bootoptions *ducks* | 10:41 |
| mdz | lamont_r: depends on how long forever is | 10:41 |
| lamont_r | < 5 minutes | 10:41 |
| lamont_r | just long enough to go WTF and reboot. | 10:41 |
| amu | uploading screenshot | 10:42 |
| mdz | lamont_r: do you realize that sources.list on the CD contains people.ubuntu.com/~lamont entries? | 10:42 |
| === lamont_r notices that elmo used a large club in locking down warty | ||
| lamont_r | mdz: yes | 10:42 |
| lamont_r | but that's ok, because apt-get update exits immediateluy | 10:42 |
| lamont_r | :-) | 10:42 |
| lamont_r | http method is busted, alex blames part of the kernel hacks | 10:43 |
| mdz | SIGSEGV | 10:44 |
| lamont_r | yeah - in select on a socket | 10:44 |
| lamont_r | "I was suspicious of that socket code" | 10:44 |
| lamont_r | --Alex | 10:44 |
| mdz | what socket code? | 10:46 |
| === lamont_r looks | ||
| === lamont_r forgpt the package name | ||
| lamont_r | mdz: minifo | 10:47 |
| lamont_r | or rather, probably minifo-2.6.7 | 10:48 |
| mdz | isn't that the filesystem overlay thing? | 10:48 |
| mdz | I do not see what that has to do with TCP sockets, which are what that program is using | 10:48 |
| lamont_r | sockets are fd's, which go through the filesystem... | 10:50 |
| amu | http://amu.debian.net/tmp/l5.png | 10:50 |
| lamont_r | and alex really thought the socket handling was, um, suspect | 10:50 |
| lamont_r | mdz: think unix domain sockets | 10:50 |
| mdz | I agree, it probably is | 10:50 |
| mdz | but apt doesn't use unix domain sockets | 10:50 |
| lamont_r | but the sockets code gets involved anyway | 10:51 |
| mdz | you're saying that mini_fo mangles generic socket code? | 10:52 |
| === mdz runs away | ||
| mdz | no wonder that thing will never go near upstream | 10:52 |
| mdz | where can I get a copy of that patch? | 10:52 |
| lamont_r | mdz: nfc - I didn't even look at it, other than 'http method dies with segv, and strace, pick on alex'. see p.u.c/~lamont/LiveCD/morphix/source | 10:54 |
| === amu detects a bugs bombarding | ||
| mdz | I didn't realize you had noticed that major things were broken and weren't filing bugs about them | 10:56 |
| lamont_r | 1) didn't see apt not working as major - it's a livecd. 2) the last bug I asked someone to file I got told "please dont" | 10:57 |
| lamont_r | the localization bug was mentioned last night - investingating today. | 10:58 |
| mdz | lamont_r: that was regarding "the live CD has fundamentally different hardware detection" which is a design issue | 10:59 |
| lamont_r | true | 10:59 |
| lamont_r | but still a WONTFIX bug. | 10:59 |
| lamont_r | or at least NOTWARTY | 11:00 |
| lamont_r | because we've already declared it to be RC for hoary | 11:00 |
| mdz | doesn't apt work on morphix? | 11:01 |
| lamont_r | not recent disks, apparently | 11:01 |
| mdz | if it doesn't, I really don't see the point of tolerating all this mini_fo madness | 11:01 |
| mdz | that seems like the only reason | 11:01 |
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| === sivang [~trout@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lamont_r adds a chmod to the morphix startup scripts | ||
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| lamont_r | mdz: looks like minifo might be trivial to fix - want me to see what I can do? | 11:21 |
| mdz | lamont_r: what's the story? | 11:31 |
| lamont_r | well, if it's just a null pointer deref issue (like the oops says), it could just be a matter of a check, dunno until I look | 11:32 |
| lamont_r | fear any code that contains the comment: XXX ... this is wrong? | 11:35 |
| T-Bone | lol | 11:35 |
| T-Bone | lamont_r: dude, I write that kind of code! | 11:36 |
| === T-Bone ducks | ||
| mdz | lamont_r: before the oops, there is an assertion failure down in the mini_fo code | 11:41 |
| mdz | so I don't know what the root cause is | 11:41 |
| mdz | it shouldn't be passing a NULL up the stack | 11:41 |
| lamont_r | mdz: I'll dig into it some | 11:42 |
| lamont_r | car done at the mechanics, heading back home in a few | 11:42 |
| mdz | lamont_r: ok, the localisation stuff is higher-priority though | 11:42 |
| mdz | I imagine it's more fixable, too | 11:42 |
| lamont_r | trivially. | 11:43 |
| lamont_r | and I'll fix the rmdir -f issue, since it's in the same package, and equally trivial | 11:43 |
| lamont_r | (I fixed the locale issue by adding a chmod 644 after the locale-gen call | 11:43 |
| lamont_r | in theory, wifi drivers are in anything newer than the RC bits, but I have no hardware to verify | 11:44 |
| === mxpxpod [~bryan@mxpxpod.user] has left #ubuntu-devel ["later.."] | ||
| === lamont_r finishes up with the mechanic and heads homeward. | ||
| lamont_r | mdz: anything else before I flee? | 11:54 |
| mdz | lamont_r: new build with locales fixed later this afternoon? | 11:55 |
| mdz | if so, nothing else at the moment | 11:55 |
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