lamont_rmdz: will build as soon as I get home, test, and then push the fix and build in the DC.  eta ~ 2 hours12:01
=== lamont_r heads out
sivangvmware's perl installer sucks badly12:13
mdzsivang: yes, but does it break samba? :-)12:23
sivangmdz : It needs kernel headers before, it wants to compile the kernel module 12:24
sivangmdz : this will take me some time, but I will not go to sleep before being able to tell you if it does.12:24
sivangmdz : it first broke up on me and I had to clean files by hand..:-|12:25
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sivangmdz : compiling now12:26
sivangmdz : almost finished install12:27
sivangmdz : what file am I supposed to look for?12:30
mdzsivang: that looks normal12:32
mdzi.e., not mangled12:32
sivangmdz : I can remove my samba and reinstall it just to see if it makes through it, what do you say?12:33
sivang(without purgin conf files ofcourse :)12:33
mdzsivang: apparently, vmware has some integration with samba12:33
mdzsivang: are you sure that you enabled this and it was activated?12:33
sivangit uses samba to give access to the host's filesystem12:33
sivangmdz : everything that just had samba in the name, I said yes.12:33
sivangmdz : especially bridge networking thingies, and configure access to the host file system through samba12:34
mdzit could be a different version of vmware which has the bug...it's just a guess, really12:34
mdzI don't think it's a package in Ubuntu which causes this12:34
sivangmdz : I can runleve 1 and back see if anything breaks12:37
mdzsivang: the bug is that something deletes the /etc/rc?.d/K19samba links12:37
mdzand creates broken /etc/rc?.d/K09samba links12:37
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antonio_i've just installed ubuntu...12:48
antonio_... it's cool!12:48
antonio_anyone knows how to install mono on it?12:48
lamontantonio_: I think it's just a matter of adding universe (see /etc/apt/sources.list), and running synaptic12:48
antonio_ok, thanx!12:48
antonio_i'm so interested in configure grub ui, anyone knows where to touch in?12:48
sivangmdz : you have a sn for vmware?12:48
antonio_i don't have it12:48
azeemantonio_: gnome-systems-tools can configure grub AFAIK, though I believe that part of it is not shipped by ubuntu12:48
sivangno I was asking mdz, as we are trying to reproduce a bug related to vmware and ubuntu12:48
sivangantonio_ : you might want to ask on #ubuntu, this is rather a development general discussion channel12:48
antonio_ok, thanx!12:49
mdzsivang: no, I do not12:49
sivangmdz : ok, I'll register there12:50
amulamont: ping12:59
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amuguess i got it, i think pentium 233mmx is a 386, livecd kernel has only support for >486   01:02
lamonthuh?  I thought mmx > 486, no?01:03
elmo_anything with pentium in the CPU name is >= 58601:04
amucompared both, installkernel is 386 with emu, live is 486 no C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cemu 01:04
pittimdz: so shall I do the security uploads tomorrow?01:08
mdzelmo_: what's the status of the security queue?01:09
mdzpitti: they should be peer reviewed first01:09
pittimdz: I took the patches from Debian, but I will just upload the packages to chinstrap01:10
pittimdz: http://chinstrap/~pitti/01:11
pittimdz: sorry, https of course01:11
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pittinight everybody01:16
sivangnight pitti 01:16
=== kylem wonders if lamont fixed mplayer
mdzamu: the live CD kernel is 2.6.7 + morphix stuff, the instal kernel is + ubuntu stuff.  they are entirely different kernels01:18
Kamionmdz: what, we haven't updated the live kernel? boggle01:18
mdzKamion: it uses this very sketchy kernel module which was suspected to break under
Kamionoh, that overlay thing01:22
amumdz: is it possible to find it out with which command the kernel was build, make-kpkg ....  01:24
lamontkylem: after livecd ships01:29
kylemlamont, lol, ok. :)01:29
mdzI just had vim segfault on me on the live CD01:35
mdzin mini_fo_rename01:35
amu-rw-r--r--  1 root root 12672488 Oct  3 13:32 kernel-image-2.6.7_10.00.Custom_i386.deb is builded with scsci_multi_lun=y01:37
chrisa/sbin/init: 429: cannot open dev/console: No such file01:39
amumdz: what was the problem with #1995 ?     01:40
mdzamu: perhaps alex fixed it and forgot to close the bug?01:41
mdzamu: I opened it almost 3 weeks ago01:41
chrisaah, bug in the image01:42
amuok, should i diff it with the ubuntu kernel ? or closing the bug ?       01:42
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amumdz: guess the problem was with nvidia-modules, why not running the same kernel ? right ? 01:45
mdzamu: diff it01:45
mdzsee if there are any other significant differences01:45
mdzamu: as I said to Kamion above, the reason it isn't the same kernel is because of this mini_fo nastiness01:46
lamontwhere is the '-' on a french keyboard?01:46
mdzlamont: it's under computer->desktop preferences->(thing that looks like a keyboard)01:48
mdzclavier or something01:48
amu^k, diff comes tomorrow   01:49
lamontwas actually trying to type in a tty,01:49
=== lamont screams, finding empirical evidence (maybe) of why boot takes forever sometimes... have to double check
doogielamont: it takes forever sometimes because someone told grub to boot windows?01:53
lamontmdz: wrt the sources.list - do we want to move the mirrors off of p.u.o?01:54
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mdzlamont: I was thinking more that those entries could be removed from the installed system. what's there?01:54
lamontwhich entries?01:56
sivangjust tried to boot cd, loops back at the grub menu.01:57
lamonttwo sound devices (??) --> two esd's (definite) --> hang for a while.01:57
lamontsivang: which CD?01:57
sivangcould I have again a bad burn?01:58
lamontcould be01:58
lamontI believe that others have booted it successfully01:58
sivangI guess nobody reported that ha?01:58
sivangI'll give it another burn01:58
lamontkilling the ESD that's hanging out there during the "hang" (really a stall) gets us past that...01:58
lamontmdz: so why doesn't locale-gen fix the perms itself?02:03
chrisaDoes linux-source- contain the .config used to generate the kernel images?02:07
lupus_when will hoary repository open up?02:07
mdzlamont: dunno. why does it end up with wrong permissions in morphix?02:09
lamontstill arguing with that, I fear02:09
amuchrisa: nope, you get it from the image 02:10
mdzlamont: re: which entries, the sources.list entries02:10
mdzlamont: I'm afraid uploading glibc is out of the question at this stage, so the permission thing will need to be fixed in the morphix side of things02:11
lamontthe ones that all point to p.u.o/~lamont/LiveCD02:11
lamontcould probably move to something more official-esque, eh?02:11
lamontmdz: that was a granted assumption.  Just grousing02:11
mdzlamont: what packages are they expected to retrieve from ~lamont/LiveCD?02:12
lamontnone, unless you're building a liveCD02:12
mdzI assume that only contains the morphix-specific packages, which aren't even installed in the mainmodule, are they?02:12
mdzso they don't need to be present in the file on the live CD02:12
lamontthere are also 2? packagees from universe that are on the livecd, and present in LiveCD/warthog on the mirror02:13
lamontbut I got rid of pump...02:13
mdzlamont: what's the other one?02:14
=== amu moves to bed; n8 -R *
lamontdialog :-(02:15
lamontlibpci1 is there for aumix02:15
lamont(pump was #3.)02:15
mdzfabbione: your gpg emails are full of CR/LFs still02:18
mdzlamont: aumix is in universe too02:18
mdzshouldn't need it, either. we have alsamixer02:19
=== lamont will build without it this pass
elmo_mm, neat, xmms still has that "playing at 1.5x speed" bug  on my laptop.  I rock at reporting bugs on time.02:19
lamontdialog is also universe02:19
lamontmdz: aumix is in base, not mainmod.02:20
lamontwhich means it's there for hw detection crap, probably02:20
mdzthat also means it's fine if it's missing from /etc/apt/sources.list in mainmod02:21
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lamontnow I just have to figure out how to deal with that.02:21
mdzlamont: if it's non-trivial, I don't care if it stays there02:22
mdzthere are certainly worse bugs at this point02:22
lamontmdz: it's a mod to morphix-mmaker02:22
lamont==> no02:22
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lamontseb128 around?02:25
lamontor jdub?02:25
lamontor anyone who knows how esd gets launched?02:25
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=== lamont glares at the '&' character, pushes the localization bug to the top of the hill again
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elmo_meh.  window focus is for lamers.02:28
lamontfollow the bouncing focus.02:28
lamontin other unrelated news, my install DVD boots now.02:30
=== lamont consdiers a bug against d-i asking it to take Packages.gz when Packages doesn't exist.
lamontand, if the Packages file isn't mentioned in Release, to just bitch loudly and ask before using, rather than loop forever.02:31
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sivangmdz : it works no problem so far, however I didn't try to remove and reinstall samba02:54
sivangnight all03:06
tsengwill there be security advisories on the main page?03:07
mdzjustdave: around?03:10
mdztseng: there's an 'errata' section under documentation; I imagine we'll put them there03:10
=== lamont burns another live cd, colorado edition
lamontno esd takers, eh?03:11
mdzlamont: hmm?03:12
lamontunder conditions unknown, I find that the liveCD stalls with the X background, and a cursor.03:13
lamontkilling the running ESD at that point causes the system to finish coming up into gnome.03:13
lamont(with esd running)03:14
lamontthere are errors/warnings in the main (f1) screen about another esd process already running03:14
tsengi realize that bluefoxicy is a complete tool, but are any of you folks interested in hardening daemons03:14
mdzlamont: I have seen no such behaviour03:16
lamontmaybe it's a vaio special, or something unique to the colorado edition03:17
mdztseng: there is some proactive security stuff on the list of proposed hoary feature goals03:17
tsengmdz: yeah, bluefoxicy put it together03:17
tsengif you mean the wiki page03:17
tsenghe is one of our user/trolls at hardened gentoo03:18
mdztseng: I mean the HoaryHedgehog page03:18
=== tseng sees SELinux on the list
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justdavemdz: pong03:39
mdzjustdave: filed a bug (the live CD thing)03:46
justdaveok, just saw that and replied03:47
danielsmdz: #27769904:16
danielsmdz: we don't care about PAE, yeah?04:16
jdublamont: topic has the latest build?04:19
lamontlatest dc build, yes.04:19
lamontI'm fixing localization right now, burning what I think is the last CD for that.04:19
lamontthen I need artwork from you, dude.  Or we're gonna ship04:19
lamontmdz: anything besides localization that we want to get in before we ship?04:20
danielsjdub: morning04:20
lamontwill work on understanding minifo as well tonight, but I think that's opportunistic dependiing on how bad it is04:20
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benhbob2: like this ? :)04:24
jdublamont: you want a final grub-gfxboot image?04:25
benhso as I was saying on the other channel, it would be useful for you guys to send your old crappy outdated overpatches glibc down the gutter04:25
benhand get something decent :)04:25
benhppc had NPTL/TLS support for a looong time now, but the debian glibc is just too old04:25
jdubhey benh 04:27
jdubbenh: i put your glibc request on the HoaryHedgehog feature goals list :-)04:27
lamontjdub: if I don't get one, then the one I have is final... :-)04:27
benhgood :)04:27
jdublamont: it's fine, but it doesn't have anything up the top left04:27
=== jdub is not too concerned
lamontright.  this is your chance, taken or not.04:27
lamontjust wanted to give our RELEASE MANAGER a chance to slip in one more change before release, and all that... 04:28
jdubhow many minutes? :)04:28
tsengthom: ping04:28
lamontoh, I'd like to burn the final sometime within the next 3 hours or so.04:28
lamontwhich means you have < 2 hours.04:28
benhthe main reason debian glibc is outdated is to support exotic archs04:29
tsengthom: your NetworkManager initscript checks for /usr/bin/NetworkManager || exit 004:29
tsengthom: NetworkManager is in sbin04:29
benhamd64, x86 and ppc all benefit from a more recent drop, and especially ppc & ppc6404:29
benhthe main problem with glibc however is that there are no more releases afaik04:29
danielsyeah, I was going to say04:30
benhjust a cvs and the "bugs of the day"04:30
danielswe don't have mipsel to support04:30
benhso you sort-of need to track your own tree, bringing in things from the cvs with caution04:30
jdubboo hoo04:30
jdubi want ubuntu on my qube04:30
jdubit is my firewall ;)04:30
bob2HoaryGoals - Support jdub's firewall.04:31
jduband the linksys is mipsel04:31
jdubthough you probably wouldn't use glibc on it04:31
lamontif we're supporting jdub's firewall, I want mine supported too!04:31
kylemi heard someone speaking about an embedded ubuntu.04:32
bob2and my alpha.04:32
lamontjdub: what starts esd?04:32
danielsi love it04:32
jdublamont: gnome-session, i believe04:32
kylemsupport my itanic. ;-)04:32
jdubkylem: mdz has done something, dunno what though04:32
jdubkylem: there are plans for something reasonably official, too, though04:32
jdublamont: my hppa is horribly hot and loud04:33
lamontkylem: ia64 support is actually in the works04:33
kylemlamont, i heard tbone speaking of it.04:33
lamontjdub: mine's in the utility room04:33
jdubhaha, from mbp:04:33
jdub"xdiskusage is a great little tool to show what is using up space on a disk.04:33
jdubThere is also Filelight which has a bit more eye-candy, but depends on KDE and so may be a bit counter-productive in freeing up disk space."04:33
lamontjdub: so here's the thing with my vaio...04:33
lamontesd sometimes gets launched twice (based on the complaints that it'salready running)... and gnome-splash gets delayed until either something like 3-5 minutes go by, or you jump into a vt and kill the esd that's in ps output...04:34
lamontwhat needs to get h0rked?04:34
lamontonly one esd in the ps output: /usr/bin/esd -terminate -nobeeps -as 2 -spawnfd 1704:35
lamontl10n happiness!04:35
jdublamont: what's in ~/.gnome2/session ?04:36
lamontjdub: well, the whole directory gets nuked each boot, so I'd say the default...04:36
lamontthere is an ac97 modem there as well as the sound device04:37
jdubit's not a crazy morphix initscript, is it?04:37
lamontdon't think so...04:37
lamontdidn't see 'esd' anywhere in the scripts when I looked... what else should I grep for?04:37
jdubso this is a general livecd problem, or just your vaio?04:37
lamontmdz hasn't seen it, he has 2 sound devices.04:38
jdubnothing, i don't htink04:38
lamontit may even be specific to the colorado edition04:38
=== lamont waits for his japanese boot to finish, then he'll reboot to check some things
lamontjdub: funny thing is, it doesn't do it every time.  only some times.04:38
lamontyep. that's japanese, alright.04:39
lamont"Computer" didn't get translated, though.04:40
lamontnor did a bunch of other stuff. feh04:40
jdubwe don't have an ubuntu alternate dimension yet04:42
jdubso no japanese translations04:42
tsengis there anything in debian initscripts to tell one service to start before another?04:42
tsengor just by the #'s in rc.d04:43
jdubSxx <-04:43
tseng:) fair nuff04:43
jdubdon't go all gentoo on us ;)04:43
tsengnetworkmanager wants to start before dbus04:43
lamontjdub: _I_ can translate to japanese, so can jane.04:43
tsengjdub, i was a gentoo devel for ~1 year04:43
jdublamont: we need to foster an alternate dimension though04:43
jdubtseng: (i know)04:43
lamontgimp in japanese is interesting..04:44
bob2tseng: we forgive you :-p04:44
tsengi found my way back to debian, thanks to the Mad Phat startup04:44
bob2you should star in a community service announcement04:45
tsengi converted a few people04:45
bob2"I was once a Debian user, then I fell into the wrong crowd...started using gentoo, compiling things from source, using -O99 and -fomit-instructions...then I found Ubuntu.  They helped me go back to actually using my machine, not just building stuff over and over.  Thanks, Mad Phat Startup!"04:46
tsenghaha, yeah04:46
tsengthe gentoo user base is pretty heinous, that extends to some of the development community as well these days04:47
tsengbrb, added NetworkManager at S2504:49
jdubbob2: "this has been a community service announcement (*cough* sponsored by canonical)"04:49
=== lamont isn't familiar with -fomit-instructions
tsengthe straw that broke my back was04:53
tsengsomeone thought it was a good idea to add gcc 3.4 to the "unstable" distro04:53
danielsto be fair, when we put in gcc 3.2, it broke Xau at -O204:53
danielsso you couldn't actually start any X apps, unless you started with access control disabled04:54
danielsthis was on i386 and powerpc, where the build actually succeeded04:54
danielsit failed on arm, mips, mipsel and m68k with an ICE, but that's not even the thrust of my argument here :P04:54
bob2oh yeah, fun times04:55
jdubwow, lots of comments on the LWN article04:59
=== lamont makes a new DC cd
=== KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
kylemone thing that would be a nice 'enterprise' feature from ubuntu, is the ability to configure nis/ldap during firstboot...05:06
bob2"From what I hear Europe is about 5 to 7 years ahead of us in depravity"05:06
lamontjdub: and they're largely scary replies...05:06
bob2tjc is massively anti-ubuntu, whoever that is05:07
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lamontkylem: there's plenty of room on the install CD to add a package or 3 to do just that...05:08
lamontand point at the corporate mirror, and configure the corporate DNS/MTA/... config, etc.05:08
=== kylem nods.
jdubyeah, though we probably wouldn't ask the questions by default05:09
lamontbut then, that's customizing the CD, which is work for many05:09
jdubyou'd have to use kickstart or pre-seeding05:09
jdubwhich would be reasonably appropriate anyway05:09
lamontjdub: instead of expert, just boot 'corporate'05:09
jdubwe probably shouldn't have too many of those :)05:10
kylemkickstart would be cool, heh.05:10
bob2jdub: "the best thing verisign ever did..."05:10
jdubbob2: loved that one :)05:11
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KeybukDoes anyone else find it amusing we're DistroWatch #3 now ?05:25
Keybuk(though I expect that's an artificial release-induced high, but still... <g>)05:26
jdubfor this month?05:26
jdub12th on 3 months05:28
jameshIt's probably because all the developers keep checking the distrowatch page to find the rank05:28
jamesh(given the ranking is just based on page hits)05:28
=== jdub just looks at the ranking list, not the ubuntu page :)
Keybukjamesh: the rank isn't given on the distrowatch page that gets counted05:29
lamontMandrake clearly has bots at work.. :-)05:29
jdubX many million french people can't be wrong!05:30
lamontbad paste05:35
danielsGET OUT OF ARCH05:35
danielsIT'S NOT TOO LATE05:35
lamontdaniels: I pasted that last little bit, picked up a spare -05:35
danielsfabbione: morning dude05:36
danielsfabbione: see /msg05:36
fabbioneah paste again05:36
fabbionedaniels: it's out of my buffer05:37
fabbionemdz: i am using thunderbird05:38
fabbionealmost default settings05:38
fabbionelet me check them again05:44
fabbionedaniels: ^05:44
danielsyou want a repaste?05:44
danielsok ...05:45
fabbionephoenix is far05:46
lamontphoenix in the summer is nice.05:46
danielsMandrake: because 174 million French people can't be wrong!05:46
fabbionedaniels: go for the palace. it's very close to the main train station05:47
danielshold one, which one's the palace?05:48
fabbionePalace Hotel05:48
fabbionePalace Hotel05:48
fabbioneHistoric hotel in Copenhagens city square05:48
fabbioneGuests can book a range of treatments with the hotels masseuse, including deep tissue massage, cranio sacral massage, and healing; in-room treatments are ...05:48
fabbioneMore hotel info05:48
bob2can I come to the X sprint, too?05:49
fabbionebob2: did you import X.org and xfrer86 into arch?05:49
danielspalace is unavailable for part of it, plus $$ for some days05:50
danielslike GBP167/night for the weekends :P05:50
=== lamont finds himself tempted to add a morphix-lamont package to the colorado edition of the livecd, with a gnome config that he can stand, etc, etc.
bob2fabbione: how many days until the sprint? ;)05:50
fabbionedaniels: the marmaid hotel is also ok in terms of distance05:50
danielsbob2: starts on the 1st.  get moving.05:50
fabbionebob2: one week05:50
=== bob2 hurrys
fabbionedaniels: 2604 is your05:52
bob2copenhagen sounds like fun!05:53
danielsfabbione: reassign it to me05:53
fabbionedaniels: we will look at bugs later on05:53
fabbioneuseless to do it now05:53
danielsfabbione: i'd say xserver-xfree86 tho ... just sanitise it right before you actually write it05:55
fabbionedaniels: well that info comes from xresprobe05:55
fabbionei don't write anywhere the size of the monitor05:55
fabbionebut yeah05:55
fabbioneit's on the border05:55
danielsok, i'll put it on my xresprobe todo05:56
danielswe can be doubly careful -- put it in two places :)05:56
jdubi have a difficult choice to make05:57
jdubdo i use hoary on my laptop, even though i really need it to be a stable machine, and will probably be using it for demonstrations05:57
danielsjdub: seafood platter05:57
lamontjdub: dual boot?05:57
danielsoh, you're not deciding what to have for lunch.05:57
jdubor do i use warty on my laptop, and test hoary on my desktop (which i rarely turn on these days)05:57
bob2no, steak sandwich with the lot, hold the pineapple05:57
danielsbob2: i find the seafood basket hard to fault05:57
lamontjdub: you know that within 2 months you're gonna want to demo bleeding-edge hoary05:58
bob2daniels: seafood sticks--05:58
danielsjdub: i agree, dual-boot also05:58
danielsjdub: MAD PHAT STARTUP05:58
jdubi don't go for dual-boot05:58
jdubi like those lines defined very strongly05:58
lamontjdub: just keep the warty LiveCD around for demos, and run hoary????05:58
bob2hoary, because you know lamont is right05:58
lamontjdub: "warty is, like, _so_ 2004."05:59
jdublamont: hrrrrrm, that's amazingly tempting05:59
danielsbob2: sounds like a commercial05:59
danielswe need lamont fronting up to the cameras like 'hoary is the only tree i trust for *my* family.'05:59
bob2espcially if we ever get X.ORG PACKAGES.05:59
=== lamont wonders if grumpy is a prognostication of mdz's mood by then?
jdubmeans i'll be dogfooding the development release all the time, which is half what i really want but a little bit what i don't want05:59
lamontjdub: you can mount /home from the hard drive, you know...06:00
bob2ho, hoary opened06:00
lamontyou mean the apt repositories?06:00
bob2oh, no, it's just empty Packages files06:00
lamontyeah - about 2 months ago, or so.06:01
lamontelmo had some time one day, you see...06:01
lamontI think it was oxford-conf timeframe06:01
lamontthere are hoary chroots on the buildd's that say 'aug 11', but I don't remember if they were real and happy then, or if my script was just leaving junk around in my optimism06:03
bob2will the hoary buildd's just start up with warty, and install newer stuff as things build-dep on it?06:04
lamontI hate these: APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)06:04
lamontbut only because there are soo damn many of them.06:04
jdubbob2: no, there's a few ways we could do it, not sure if we've decided yet06:05
jdub- import all of sid, forgetting our patches06:05
jdub- import sid, except for the stuff we've patched06:05
jdub- wait until hct can merge our patches with sid06:06
jdub1 and 2 are "distro team can keep working until hct is ready" solutions06:06
=== bob2 heads back to work, coincidentally
=== SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
SuperLagThe default install of Ubuntu installs a very modular kernel and I get a LOT of module errors when I boot.  How can I clean that up? hw_random, pciehp, i82365, yenta are some examples... Gentoo will read /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 for a list of modules to be loaded (assuming you don't have hotplug enabled/installed).... does Ubuntu read a file also?  I'm just wanting to clean that up some.06:21
fabbioneSuperLag: it makes no difference other than for estetich06:21
SuperLagwartylog: estetich?06:21
SuperLagthat was for you fabbione 06:22
fabbione"to look nicer at boot"06:22
SuperLagare you meaning to say aesthetics? :)06:22
fabbioneyeah sorry06:22
fabbioneen_IT ;)06:22
SuperLagwell, sure06:22
fabbionebut this is #ubuntu discussion06:22
SuperLagI know that... but I'd still like to clean it up.06:22
chrisaIf you disable hotplug then just use /etc/modules06:36
jdubdaniels: what goodies does your x40 package include?06:37
mdzdaniels: hell yes we care about PAE06:37
mdzdaniels: but not particularly for X06:38
jdubmorning mdz06:38
lamontmdz: fired mail at alex wrt apt-get.06:38
danielsmdz: cool06:38
mdzlamont: thanks06:38
lamontif we can get that working, would be nice to include06:39
danielsjdub: just a bunch of /etc/acpi scripts and a dependency on i855-crt06:39
mdzlamont: localisation is the big one06:39
lamontotherwise, I'm asserting that 20041022-04 is final06:39
mdzthat's necessary for proper demo goodness06:39
lamontclosing 261406:39
mdzlamont: it would also be nice if firmware loading could be made to work06:39
mdzbut that  may or may not be doable06:39
mdzI'd like amu's opinion on it06:39
mdzalex did the work of integrating the drivers, but they're useless without firmware06:40
lamontyeah.  the package is there, but doesn't seem to be linked in well.06:40
mdzthe files are there06:40
mdzthey just aren't loaded correctly06:40
mdzI filed a bug06:40
=== lamont searches
lamonthw detection is initially done in the basemod06:41
=== lamont suspects that mdz is correct
mdzlamont: even after everything is up and running, if I unload it and load it again, it fails06:42
mdzlamont: does it use chroot or pivot_root?06:42
mdzI think pivot_root would work, and chroot not06:42
lamontI think it uses chroot, claims to at least06:43
lamontcool.  bootpraam 'debugmorphix' gets you a shell early on06:44
lamontjdub: am I expecting new artwork from you?06:48
lamontmdz: btw, Henrik indicated WinFOSS is 'go'06:49
fabbionehey mdz06:49
fabbionemdz: do you which setting in thunderbird can make that CR/LF mess?06:50
fabbionei really can't find any06:50
fabbioneand i have set to compose in text mode06:50
jdublamont: hrm, don't have it already?06:50
lamontmdz: were any of the other livecd bugs filed in the RC category?06:50
lamontjdub: I have what you gave me yesterday06:51
jdubsent another one a while back06:52
lamontwhile ==?06:52
fabbionemdz: how is going with amber?06:53
mdzfabbione: she's being difficult06:53
ajdon't diss amber!06:53
mdzelmo said his piece was done06:53
lamontmy piece done06:54
mdzthen everything should be done06:54
jdublamont: hour or two06:54
mdzand yet there are still no binaries in queue/accepted06:54
mdzI wonder if it needs a nudge06:54
lamontjdub: resend?06:54
fabbionemdz: i didn't see any message going out..is that correct?06:54
mdzfabbione: what kind of message?06:55
lamontmdz: w-b access is currently blocked, I believe06:55
fabbionemdz: a security-announce06:55
mdzfabbione: the packages are not installed yet06:55
mdzthey are not even built06:55
mdzthey need to be built, then tested, then an advisory sent out06:55
mdzdid you write one already?06:55
fabbionei tought that it is some kind of templates that needs to be filled06:56
fabbionebut do we have the template somewhere?06:56
fabbioneaj: definetely not :)06:56
mdzfabbione: the template should have been mailed to you07:02
mdzor perhaps to me07:02
mdzbut I don't think I received it07:02
fabbionemdz: i didn't see anything here07:02
jdublamont: hrm, go without, it was naff anyway07:02
jdublamont: can you expand the menu across the screen?07:03
lamontjdub: no clue.07:04
fabbionemdz: do you know from which address should have come?07:04
lamontand not really all that awake either.07:04
mdzfabbione: no07:04
mdzkatie@somewhere I presume07:04
jdubmdz: suggestion to make /initrd immutable by default. thoughts? :)07:04
mdzjdub: *boggle*07:04
jdubOne beer says you deleted /initrd, the empty directory which pivot_root07:05
jdubPeople always do this. Distro's should make it immutable by default.07:05
mdzI have never heard of anyone doing that before07:05
mdzpeople who remove random directories without understanding them deserve what they get :-P07:05
=== lamont did remove the kernel once, very early in his experience with unix...
jdub"what a mess, let's tidy this up..."07:06
lamontjdub: actually, _I_ was just very desparate for disk space, and the 3MB file was just the trick.07:06
lamontuntil the next reboot,that is..07:06
fabbionemdz: i got twice the message from katie about libpng_ being ACCEPTED07:07
lamontmdz: any objections to me just putting livecd status in my activity report?07:07
fabbionemdz: that was the last one07:07
=== lamont is fading
mdzlamont: none07:08
lamontalex and amu looking at firmware blobs?07:08
mdzlamont: I gave amu the bug; he'll look at it when he's awake07:10
lamontjdub: go ahead and toss me the new image and if we do another build, I'll stick it in07:11
=== lamont falls into bed. Back in about 6 hours or so
=== x4m [~max@131-113.240.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzlamont: this latest live CD image is suddenly much bigger07:21
mdzthis is not good07:21
mdzor perhaps I'm just hallucinating07:35
danielsmdz: are we still processing univer syncs?07:45
mdzdaniels: not unless they're FTBFS07:46
mdzor baby jesus speaks through Mark and asks for something07:46
fabbionedaniels: libXau doesn't create shared libs, right?07:46
danielsmdz: ok, so saying 'can we get latest scummvm in, and I'll deal with it if need be' is unlikely to gain much traction? ;)07:47
danielsfabbione: in the monolithic tree, no.  in the modular tree, yes.07:48
fabbionei guess that's just s imple modification to the Imake07:48
fabbionesimple even07:48
fabbione#define DoSharedLib SharedLibXau07:49
fabbioneit is defined07:49
mdzdaniels: correct07:49
fabbionedaniels: that was easy :-))07:57
fabbionedaniels: the templates seems to work pretty fine07:59
fabbionedaniels: now it's only question of finding the properr build order07:59
fabbionemy actual process is to pick a project08:00
fabbionecreate the structure from the template08:00
fabbionedefine dependency08:00
fabbioneimport patches08:01
fabbionecomplete the usual stuff (like lintian, and other checks)08:01
fabbionepretty fast08:01
fabbioneif one package is stalled by another it gives immediatly the next package name08:01
jdub258 in #u... yeesh08:33
bob2the #u GMAIL stats are even weirder than the list ones ;)08:34
jdub  ubuntu-announce:137808:34
jdub  ubuntu-devel:33408:34
jdub  ubuntu-users:102008:34
bob2#ubuntu     : 95% annoying08:34
mdzjdub: those are totals, or gmail?08:38
jdubhrm, can we kill all the other kernel packages?08:41
mdznot trivially08:41
mdzuniverse is an incestuous mess; stuff build-depends on those things08:41
mdzwe just need to train people to read the FAQ08:41
mdzand train them that the name of the kernel is 'linux'08:42
=== hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubdaniels: if hoary opened tomorrow, how long would xorg be? :)08:55
danielsjdub: into the tree? probably mid-to-late nov08:56
danielsthis is a completely hypothetical question, I take it08:57
jdubbut if hoary didn't open tomorrow, i gather it would be around the same time08:57
jdubhow much earlier could it be?08:57
danielsthe earliest we could do it would be the second week, I'd imagine08:58
danielsthis is i386/powerpc/amd6408:58
jdubso you wouldn't want to do it pre-X-summit?08:59
danielsnot until I've got together with Fabio and we've beaten all the bugs out of the migration path, not really08:59
jdubahr, yeah, that's the bigger issue09:00
danielsi don't really want #ubuntu full of 'hi i ran smart upgrade and um my x isbroken' ;)09:01
bob2"hi i run smart upgrade and enabled transparency and now my x is slow"09:04
danielsoh my god.  don't even joke about that.09:05
fabbionejdub: we will get the packages into the archive when at least the upgrade path is known to work09:08
fabbionejdub: in the meanwhile we will use some temporary location09:08
fabbioneso that expert users can test them09:08
fabbionebut get ready for a big fight with bugs and stuff09:08
fabbionethat is going to be frustrating09:08
fabbionemainly because you install X.org removing Xfree86 completely09:09
fabbionethat also mean that 99.9999% of the cases upgrades withing X will be highly discouraged09:09
fabbioneand there is really NOTHING we can do about it09:09
bob2"withing" = "while running"?09:10
=== srbaker [~srbaker@blk-224-143-227.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakerheya everyone09:13
srbakeri ordered a rather significant number of cds in the shipit system.  doesn't someone want me to justify 35 cds?  (25 x86, 5 ppc, 5 amd64?) or are there enough to go around?09:14
jdubsrbaker: justification only required for large orders ;)09:19
srbakerjdub, that's not a large order?09:21
srbakerbecause i was trying to keep my numbers low. :P09:21
srbakerheh.  actually, that was exactly what i needed, i think.09:22
srbakeri'm handing them out to folks in my LUG, and whatever's left over, i'll be handing out at the Dal CS building.09:22
jdubsrbaker: put it this way... we got an order from FOSDEM.09:22
jdubif a big order seems worthwhile, we'll fill it09:23
srbakerwhere can i expect the dpkg work to be taking place?  i'm *very* interested in working on that.09:23
jdubsrbaker: in Keybuk's brain09:23
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakeroh.  i'm interested in working on it.  especially triggers.09:23
jdubyeah, triggers sound neat-o09:23
srbakeri had a problem with some elisp packages.  python-mode, actually.09:24
jdubKeybuk: pingitypong09:24
Keybukheh, good timing :)09:24
srbakerinstalled emacs, then python-mode, and then xemacs.  xemacs didn't byte compile python-mode, because it was done in python-mode's postinst09:24
srbakeri think.  i could be confusing packages here.09:24
srbakerand i remember thinking at the time "hey, it'd be nice to be able to notify the system that this package was just installed"09:24
srbakerKeybuk, ahh, well, please include me in your dpkg work.  i'm *very* interested.09:25
srbakeri was included in the ML when wiggy was talking with some folks for "dpkgv2" but it faded into nonexistence09:25
srbakerKeybuk, also, i thought it might be worthwhile to investigate xdelta for source packages.09:26
Keybukxdelta is ok for binaries, never really got happy with it for patches09:26
srbakerKeybuk, but a .src.deb would be a binary.09:27
Keybukah, I see what you mean ... upload a changes and xdelta rather than the .src.deb ?09:27
Keybukthere's still the mirror-push problem though09:27
srbakerpush the xdelta09:27
jdubrdiff :)09:27
=== bob2 likes being able to poke at .diff.gz's in the pool from his browser
jdubrsync diff09:28
Keybukthen to get a source package you have to download a src.deb and a set of xdeltas ?09:28
srbakerbob2, same.  but a browser plugin can fix that :P09:28
srbakerKeybuk, sure, why not?09:28
srbakerKeybuk, dpkg-source -x can apply all .xdelta files.09:28
srbakerjdub, doesn't rsync's diff use xdelta?09:29
srbakerKeybuk, i'm not entirely sure it'd be a working idea.  i'm just throwing out ideas.09:29
srbakerKeybuk, i definitely want to be included in the discussion, tho, as i said.09:29
srbakerKeybuk, i'm capable and happy to write code.  i'm hesitant to just go and write code without discussing it first on something liek dpkg, though.09:29
Keybukthe first hurdle isn't writing code, it's understanding the existing code and getting to a point where it can be refactored09:30
jdubyou need the netbeans refactoring system!09:30
jduband javur!09:30
srbakerKeybuk, i was very familiar with the dpkg code at one point in my life.  it won't take long to get it back.09:30
Keybukiwj-c melts people's brains :)09:31
bob2Keybuk: is your python re-write public yet?09:31
=== bob2 runs
srbakerKeybuk, i didn't find iwj's code to be that bad.  i actually found benc's hacking of it to be a little worse.09:31
jdubyou could pyrex/python it09:31
srbakeroh, who's in charge of hooking up planet debian syndicators?09:31
Keybukyeah, dpkg really suffers from being a good piece of software that's been hacked on, rather than improved09:32
bob2srbaker: you edit the cvs module yourself09:32
srbakerbob2, is there a doc?09:32
Keybuksrbaker: /org/planet.debian.org/README on gluck09:33
srbakeri've been *way* too debian-idle for too long.09:33
srbakeri'm about to do a debut release, too (Debian Upload Tool)09:33
srbakersince shorty's being a cock09:33
srbakerand the dput code didn't like my hacking too well09:34
Keybuksrbaker: how's your arch voodoo?09:35
srbakerKeybuk, i read the docs and have a basic understanding.09:35
srbakerKeybuk, i use monotone09:36
srbakerbut i'm happy to work with arch, it does everything i need09:36
srbakerKeybuk, why do you ask?  what have you got?09:38
KeybukI've been maintaining dpkg in arch for quite a while now, the cvs.d.o repository just gets sync'd whenever I do a dump or release at the moment09:39
Keybukscott@netsplit.com--2004/dpkg--devo--1.10 is the current released code; the archive's at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/arch/personal/09:40
srbakerKeybuk, cool.  i'll grab it09:40
srbakerinstalling ubuntu on my lappy now that i figured out what was wrong with it before09:46
srbakeracpi=force, by the way09:46
srbakerfor those of you unfortunate enough to have toshiba lappies09:47
thomtseng: oh, ber09:48
Keybukmorning thombot09:49
fabbionehey thom09:52
Keybukthom: apache2 trips a pyarch bug ... be proud :p09:52
thomKeybuk: ROCK!09:53
srbakerwtf is that?09:53
Keybuksrbaker: python API to arch09:53
srbakerthe thing that pissed me off about arch was the weird directories it dumped everywhere, and it's insistence on weird directory naming09:54
srbakerit's a little imposing09:54
Keybukheh, yeah, that pisses us off too :p09:54
srbakeroh, good.09:54
srbakermonotone just integrates with what i have :)09:55
srbakernon imposing09:55
Keybukbut nothing comes close to arch wrt merging and sharing branches09:55
=== azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakerKeybuk, ahh.  monotone uses xdelta, too09:56
srbakerthat's actually where i learned about it09:57
Keybukarch is oddly oxymoronic ... it has an awesome fundamental simplicity with an incredibly complicated and obtuse UI on top09:58
=== WW [~wweckesse@67-138-158-137.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakerdoes someone want to make a "broken toshiba lappy use acpi=force" note?  is there a forum or something that i should dump that in?09:58
srbakerKeybuk, heh.  same with monotone09:58
srbakeri'm currently writing a web interface to monotone.  it sucks currently, but it's coming along.09:59
srbakerthat's my other project, in addition to debut.09:59
srbakeri keep hitting dput bugs, and short's a prick, so i'm doing the right thing09:59
bob2Keybuk: you're full of arch gripes!10:07
Keybukbob2: heh, it was a bad day I wrote that <g>10:08
KeybukI'd hit all of them in about an hour10:08
bob2Keybuk: that said, I want a copy of your book10:08
=== shlomil [~shlomi@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakerwhat book?10:09
srbakerand what writing?10:09
srbakeri feel out of the loop10:09
bob2I'm just troll Keybuk because I'm bored.\10:09
Keybukheh, "Arch Is Easy, and other Lies The Developers May Have Told You"10:09
Keybukbob2: this explains your lack of progress with hct :p10:10
bob2ah, erm, eh :-)10:14
=== bob2 returns to work
=== Keybuk wins \o/
KeybukYou attack the troll--more--10:16
KeybukThe troll dies10:16
=== mvo_ [~egon@suprimo-185.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi mvo_10:17
mvo_hi pitti 10:17
danielsKeybuk: of course there's no progress, it's hypothetical10:18
srbakeroh, where do i get the dvdcss library for ubuntu?10:20
danielsor maybe RestrictedFormats10:21
danielsbut it's on there, quite plainly10:21
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukbah, I wish arch could do multiple inheritence10:24
Keybuktags which are continuations of two different branches <g>10:25
pittiDoes anybody know when the Hoary feature goals meeting will be?10:25
bob2Keybuk: hah10:25
thommonday afternoon was the last i heard10:25
Keybukto shut star-merge up and it's "trees are not related"10:25
bob2Keybuk: you can merge the trees to one, but the branch can only inhereit from one of them10:25
bob2ah, right10:25
pittithom: ah, I heard sth about today (from previous meeting). Thanks10:25
Keybukbase-0, continuation of X; patch-1, sync-tree of Y10:26
Keybukis just sucky10:26
danielsthom: monday afternoon utc?10:26
Kamionhuh, I'd thought the Hoary meeting was today too10:27
Kamionobviously a shared hallucination or something10:27
pittiKamion: no, that was proposed on Tuesday's meeting10:27
pittibut I did not ready any announcement on the lists10:27
pittiBTW, #u-meeting still claims that "today" is a TB meeting10:28
pittiI'm going to clear this10:28
=== WW [~wweckesse@67-138-158-137.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Kamionmdz: can I move this proactivesecurity stuff into the TB agenda, or at the very least off the CC agenda?10:32
srbakerwell, i think 5:30a is about a good time for bed10:32
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-15-209.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiMorning seb12810:46
seb128hello pitti 10:47
elmo_Kamion: am I okay to clear out old instances of d-i and/or the daily images?10:47
thomKamion: hm, i thought that we were "off" until monday10:48
srbakerThere's no Ubuntu porn on my login screen.10:51
srbakerthe screen shot on the website promised me ubuntu porn10:51
pittithom: although we are "off", could you take a look at https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/10:55
pittithom: it contains security updates for xpdf and cupsys10:55
pittithom: the patches are taken from the Debian packages, but mdz wants a review nevertheless10:55
pittianybody else would be fine as well, of course :-)10:55
pittiinterdiffs are available, too10:56
srbakerokay, huge problem10:57
srbakeri just installed warty.  logged in via gdm10:57
srbakerand it sits there.10:57
srbakeri don't get the startup splash screen10:58
Kamionelmo_: daily images yes10:59
srbakeris this a known problem i'm having?11:00
Kamionelmo_: and yes, might as well clear out 20040801ubuntu{13,18,19}11:00
Kamionthom: I could easily be on crack :)11:00
shlomilsrbaker: try to choose session 11:01
srbakershlomil, i chose "gnome" and same thing11:02
srbakeri'll try failsafe gnome11:02
shlomilcheck your disk quota 11:03
bob2pitti: I'm almost certain suspend isn't meant to work on ibook g4s11:03
thomKamion: 11:03
thom17:47 < Kamion> mdz: Thursday for sleep, Friday for meetings? :)11:03
thom17:47 < Keybuk> elmo: rookery doesn't have much on it though (like tla :p)11:03
thom17:47 < mdz> Kamion: thursday-sunday sleep, monday meeting?11:03
pittibob2: I had tried this in Sid, there it worked, somehow11:03
pittibob2: but I'm not so sure about it11:04
bob2pitti: hm, not just turning the backlight off?11:04
pittibob2: I'm not sure11:04
bob2pitti: closing the lid on mine just turns that off and eventually hard-shuts-down if I don't open it again11:04
pittibob2: it took a while until it woke up again11:04
pittibob2: unlike Ubuntu, which immediately wakes up again11:04
bob2pitti: hm11:05
pittibob2: but there was another problem, if I left it to sleep long enough, it completely went down11:05
pittianyway, breakfast11:05
srbakershlomil, with failsafe, i get the splash screen, but no icons or anything11:05
srbakerit seems to hang there11:05
srbakershlomil, and i don't have quotas configured11:05
shlomilno icons on desktop ? 11:06
shlomil... thats normal in Ubuntu .. ;)11:06
bob2pitti: yeah, same here11:06
bob2pitti: and not a polite shutdown, more like a powercut11:07
bob2pitti: btw, do you have gtkpbbuttons working in warty?11:08
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091b26.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
srbakershlomil, uh, what?11:09
srbakershlomil, gnome-session is hanging11:10
shlomili don't know man 11:12
shlomilsrbaker: when i asked about quotas, i ment also free space11:14
shlomilsrbaker: sometimes this happens when there's no space left on the device 11:14
srbakerthere's lots of space11:15
srbakerso, not only do i not get my porn, it's broken11:15
srbakerhow nice.11:15
shlomilsrbaker: try to login in text mode , shutdown gdm and run startx 11:17
pittibob2: I tried gtkpbbuttons, it worked11:17
srbakershould i empty my homedir of gnome files first?11:17
pittibob2: but I don't really use them11:17
pittisrbaker: you can try11:18
srbakeri already did tha ,and added "gnome-session" to ~/.xsession11:18
srbakersame thing11:18
pittisrbaker: but before you can just try to login as another user11:18
shlomilsrbaker: you can create a new user maybe 11:18
srbakerunder "failsafe" gnome, i got the splash screen, but it hung there11:18
srbakerrunning startx as a new user starts up11:21
srbakerbut it's *S L O W*11:21
srbakermy lappy may still be fucked up11:21
srbakeranyways, bed time11:21
srbakerit's 6am11:21
shlomilmight be not enough memory .... (?)11:22
shlomilgnight 11:22
=== ph_ [~ph@pD9E6BD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== elmo_ [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionlamont: do you want a new version of the live CD dropped onto releases.ubuntu.com?12:20
Kamionhm, not entirely convinced by InstallFromKnoppixHowto ...12:21
=== Kamion downloads Knoppix in order to test out better methods
pittielmo_: Hi! Any news regarding warty-security?12:27
Kamion03:00 < joeyh> less than 8 hours from UPS to a fully automated debian install, and that included the time to write the interface to the remote management interface12:28
KamionTHAT'S where I want to be with ia6412:28
elmo_pitti: you can make uploads if you like - they'll be in limbo till mdz gets up and we can finish testing the actual release mechanism12:28
thomelmo_: any sign of the itanic^Hums?12:29
elmo_(they'll get accepted and built tho, so  it's probably worthwhile)12:29
elmo_thom: dude, why do you bother logging on to jabber, if you don't read msgs there? :P12:29
elmo_(i.e. see jabber)12:29
thomi guess i need to make gaim make alarming noises12:30
elmo_have it pop  up in your face - then you too can type your passphrase/word at random jabber-buddies12:30
pittielmo_: okay, then I'll upload the stuff to get it built and send mdz the interdiffs for approval12:30
elmo_free  for a limited time offer12:30
pittielmo_: thanks12:30
elmo_pitti: hmm, don't upload unapproved stuff12:31
danielselmo_: 'your account disabled -- only $1.95 with any large value meal'12:31
elmo_pitti: like a normal upload, once it's uploaded, it's final12:31
pittielmo_: okay; I asked mdz yesterday to approve, but maybe he has some more time today12:31
thomfree rm -f with every upload!12:32
amuKamion: morphix installer is nice. But needs some work. Knoppix installer inst such flexible, _and_ unmaintained 12:32
pittielmo_: then I'll send him a link to the packages and he can upload himself12:32
Kamionamu: don't really care, I'm only using it to install Ubuntu *from*12:33
mjg59An NTL man is outside.12:33
Kamionamu: p.s. read the doc, it's not actually the Knoppix-install-to-hard-disk thing12:33
amuKamion: the live ?12:33
mjg59He's on the phone to NTL.12:33
mjg59He's on hold.12:33
mjg59On a hands-free kit.12:33
Kamionamu: read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallFromKnoppixHowto :-)12:33
mjg59I'm being forced to listen to NTL hold music without the joy of knowing that I'll get to scream at NTL afterwards.12:34
thommjg59: *giggle*12:34
KamionI suppose I should log into jabber like once a lifetime or so12:34
amuKamion: Ah got it. 12:35
=== silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi silbs!12:42
=== rburton [~ross@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburtoncongrats on warty by the way12:44
rburtondidn't get to say it yesterday12:45
seb128hey rburton, thanks :)12:45
thomhey ross12:45
rburtonhey hey12:45
danielsrburton: hey dude12:49
rburtonhi daniels 12:50
danielswie gehts?12:50
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=== KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
amuKamion: hehe, nice idea, maybe debtakeover is also a option ;)       01:18
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mitariolo everyone!01:22
=== sivang [~dannyh@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsheh, one of the negotiators on the negotiator looks like taggart01:30
pittisjoerd: hum, you install the gthumb wrapper into /usr/bin; we do it to /usr/share/g-v-m/01:34
pittisjoerd: any way I could convince you to do the same? :-)01:35
pittisjoerd: in the long run we should get rid of this hack anyway, but...01:35
sjoerdpitti: if you have a good rationale why to do it in /usr/share :)01:38
pittisjoerd: it's a temporary hack and should not clutter up /usr/bin01:39
pittisjoerd: when people start to write scripts which rely on this hack, it's difficult to get rid of it01:39
sjoerdpitti: with the last reason you've got a point01:40
=== sjoerd wonders if there is some kind of policy about helper scripts
pittisjoerd: I plan to rewrite this part anyway01:41
pittisjoerd: but right now I'm synchronizing to your version, I want to clean up first01:41
sjoerdpitti: rewrite as in let g-v-m have seperated cases ?01:41
sjoerdsounds sane01:41
pittisjoerd: the funny thing is that g-v-m already has separate cases01:41
pittisjoerd: these are merged at some point to call the wrapper script01:42
pittisjoerd: which has to sort them apart again01:42
pittisjoerd: could you help me with the UI part?01:42
sjoerdyeah it's just one property 01:42
pittisjoerd: we should have two properties01:42
pittisjoerd: and probably they should both be configurable in the prefs dialog01:42
pittisjoerd: you already hacked at this, can you do this again?01:43
sjoerdpitti: sure01:43
sjoerdno right now though :), probably somewhere during the weekend01:44
=== SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
rburtondoes anyone have a decent svg of the ubuntu logo without a weird bounding box?02:15
rburtonright, i've done one02:17
rburtoncan i edit attachments in the wiki?02:17
Kamioncan people please be sure not to misspell "Ubuntu" when writing documentation?02:21
lamontKamion: my normal issue is spelling it ubunut02:22
lamontmdz: -rw-r--r--    1 lamont   buildd   673589248 Oct 20 07:50 20041020-07/warty-live-i386-20041020-07.iso02:24
lamont-rw-r--r--    1 lamont   buildd   674152448 Oct 22 04:24 20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso02:24
lamont600KB bigger is not "a lot bigger"02:24
mjg59Why the christ are people suggesting GRs about changing release policy?02:25
lamontmjg59: because we can force those techincal bastards to release _NOW_ that way, whether it's ready or not, dammit.02:27
mjg59lamont: Actually, I think they want to propose freezing unstable02:28
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mjg59I'm increasingly of the opinion that there's about 10-15 people that should be culled from Debian02:28
mjg59Some day I'll get around to actually writing this list down02:28
lamontmjg59: that violates the 6-shooter principle, though02:29
mjg59lamont: We line them all up first02:29
lamontbut it's been violated before by other organizations02:29
rburtonmjg59, our office admin guy would probably make a good hired goon02:29
lamontamu: about?02:30
Keybukhow odd ... I've not received any mails from debian-vote since August 20th02:30
Keybukin fact, it's more likely since July 27th02:31
Kamionmjg59: I have a ~/debian/morons file02:31
mjg59Kamion: Hurrah!02:31
Kamionalthough it's too short currently02:31
elmo_kamion: clearly that should be gluck:public_html/morons.txt file ;-)02:32
mjg59We should all pool our morons databases and then figure out the best way to neutralise these people02:32
Kamionelmo_: arguably :)02:32
lamontKamion: I think I want to wait and hear from amu and get an ACK from mdz, but 20041022-04 looks to be rc202:32
Kamionmjg59: Mr. "I Think It's Sensible To Set Release Policy By GR" is inexplicably not among them; let me rectify this02:33
|trey|Kamion: I better not be in there  ;P02:33
Kamion|trey|: I don't even know your name02:33
daniels|trey|: you're not a debian developer, either.02:33
|trey|Kamion: k good  ;)02:33
|trey|daniels: ^02:33
lamontKamion: I bet his name is 'trey'. :-)02:34
|trey|I want to learn, but haven't the time for programming... brains fed too much infomation tend to explode  :(02:34
lamontmjg59: "shiny bright"02:35
lamontwell, that only gets some of them02:35
Mitarioseb128, here?02:35
hornbeckis the only mono packs in universe now, are they out of tsengs repository?02:42
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi carlos, howdy02:55
carlospitti: hi!02:57
amulamont: ?02:58
amulamont: 22-04 still dl'ing03:00
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mitariorburton, hiya03:07
rburtonhey Mitario 03:08
Mitariohave some time? :)03:08
rburtongive me two03:08
Mitarioheh, ok :)03:08
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Mitariohi tbone03:13
rburtonMitario, right, i've got coffee and music. let's talk03:15
Mitarioheh, ok03:15
Mitarioabout the update stuff, dunno if you've read my proposal?03:16
rburtonyeah, i saw it03:16
rburtonits ruby at the moment, right?03:16
Mitarioyes, but we want to change that03:16
Mitarioto either c++, with libapt, or python if python-apt evolves03:17
rburtonhttp://www.burtonini.com/computing/screenshots/app-install.png is a work-in-progress of my app-install program03:17
Mitarioand we wanted some of your opinions on what language and such03:17
Mitariook, wow, that looks cool03:17
rburtoni'm using python and am currently hacking code to call synaptic --set-selections03:17
rburtonbut the goal is to extend python-apt03:17
rburton(i'll put this is cvs somewhere at some point)03:18
Mitariohm, then it would come in handy if the update list app is also written in python03:18
rburtoni thought extending python-apt would be best as if i used c++ i'd have to write exactly the same code03:18
rburtonso i may as well go the mile and write it as python bindings03:18
rburtonall i need is someone who knows python bindings and libapt-pkg to do the work for me ;)03:19
Mitarioheh :)03:20
=== Mitario doesn't know python at all
Mitarioso i'll have to learn that first, but shouldn't be hard03:20
rburtonif you know ruby, not at all03:20
Mitariooh, and nother little thingy: what is your idea on calling everything 'updates' or 'upgrades'?03:21
rburtoni see your app as updates03:21
rburtonthe main use will be security updates03:21
rburtonwhen a new release comes out, its probably best to use synaptic anyway03:22
Mitarioguess to yes03:22
Mitariohmm, i don't know about that, because we don't have any distinction between security updates and for example new upstream releases03:22
Mitarioalthough I could parse the version string of the package03:22
rburtontrue. when a new release comes out it your app will offer them all03:22
rburtonbut the dist-upgrade logic is different to the upgrade logic03:23
Mitariohow michael and I currently thought if it that the update list app just calls synaptic --set-selections03:23
Mitarioand handles all dependencies and such03:23
rburtonshould do the job03:24
mvo_we could use the origin or the package to find out if it's a security update03:24
Mitariogood idea03:24
rburtonsynaptic in svn has an option now to hide the main window, i poked michael about that earlier03:24
mvo_or the label03:24
mvo_Keybuk is no longer around? 03:25
Mitarioso, current procedure is update notification -> list updates -> call synaptic with --set-selections03:26
Mitariowhere list updates could make a distinction between security updates or just regular updates03:26
mvo_and depending on the preferences of the user: "--non-interactive --hide-main-window"03:27
rburtonshow top of the list, a cute emblem, etc03:27
pittibob2: okay, I updated g-v-m and built the whole lot for powerpc03:27
Mitariorburton, just like your add/remove app would be nice03:27
pittibob2: have fun ;-)03:27
pittiHi mvo_03:27
Mitariomvo_, yes03:27
mvo_hi pitti !03:28
Mitarioalthough the --upgrade-mode of synaptic could also be somewhat nicer03:28
pittimvo_: still with your old nick?03:28
rburtonhm, the python docs lie03:28
rburtonah, no they don't03:29
mvo_pitti: yes. no idea for a better one yet. maybe I sould start a poll ;) vomi is possible but it sounds a bit like vomit I think ...03:29
Mitariomvo_, can't we build in some kind of mode that all the windows will be replaced by something like http://geeklog.eyesopened.nl/ubdates/updatedialog.png?03:29
Mitarioso, the user doesn't know about refreshing the package list, setting the selection, downloading the stuff and etc.03:29
Mitariobut just knows 'oh, my computer is updating the packages'03:29
rburtoni would like an abridged progress dialog03:29
pittimvo_: my proposal was voimi :-)03:30
rburtonbut as mvo_ said to me earlier, once apt starts you can't get progress03:30
Mitariohmm, bummer03:30
mvo_dpkg is the problem actually :)03:30
mvo_dpkg --status-fd may help, keybuk pointed me to it03:30
mvo_but we still need to solve conf-file handling03:30
rburtonurgh, yeah03:31
mvo_and apparently it does not give progress information about the unpacking :/03:31
Mitariowhat about the debgconf gtk frontend thingy?03:31
rburtonenforce "N" and tell the user?03:31
mvo_so it's not quite there yet, but it's a start :)03:31
Mitariorburton, or only show up a dialog if debconf asks for it03:31
Mitariohmm, will there be much debconf question if the package has a small package/security update?03:32
Kamionunlikely just for security updates03:32
Kamionalthough it's possible03:32
Mitariohmm, yea03:32
bob2pitti: yay, thanks a lot :-)03:32
rburtonit is quite likely there could be conffiles changes03:33
elmo_Kamion: can you imagine a powerpc machine with i8042?03:34
Mitariook, and what about configuration?03:34
Kamionelmo_: yes03:34
elmo_kamion: which ones?03:34
Kamionelmo_: CHRPish boxes have them03:34
elmo_do CHRP do power4?03:34
Kamionelmo_: basically anything IBM03:34
Mitarioi think we just need some kind of dialog to pop up when gconf asks a question03:34
Kamionelmo_: yes03:34
elmo_meh, ok03:34
Mitariowhether that's a gtk frontend, or a terminal widget, doesn't matter much IMO03:34
Kamionnewish RS/6000 boxen03:35
mvo_yes, I think we need to solve the conffile problem if we want to hide the dpkg output 03:35
Mitarioeuhm, s/gconf/debconf03:35
elmo_hmm, but hangon, CHRP needs something other htan PPC_MULTIPLATFORM, right?03:35
Kamionmvo_: or do an expect-like trick03:35
Kamionelmo_: don't think so?03:35
Kamion<cjwatson@riva ~/src/ubuntu/linux-source-
Kamionch/ppc/configs>$ grep PPC_MULTIPLATFORM ibmchrp_defconfig03:36
mvo_Kamion: probably. if status-fd tells about the problem, we could do something like this03:36
elmo_gar, sux2be an Xserve then03:36
Kamionelmo_: and we have CONFIG_PPC_CHRP=y in our kernels03:36
mvo_I'll just pester keybuk with it :)03:36
Mitariomvo_, is there 03:36
elmo_kamion: I was just thinking if there was some way we could exclude i8042 as Y based on config variables is all03:36
elmo_kamion: (#2605 for ref)03:37
Mitarioyea, debconf needs to notify the package manager that it needs user interaction03:37
Kamionelmo_: it happens that we don't support CHRP right now, but we've had about as many queries about RS/6000 support as we've had about Xserve G5 support by my reckoning03:37
Kamionso it'd be nice, and CHRP is *relatively* non-evil since it basically uses yaboot03:37
Kamionelmo_: yeah, saw that. not sure why i8042 can't be modular though03:38
elmo_Kamion: sorry, don't get me wrong, wasn't suggesting we drop/not support chrp or anything03:38
Kamionelmo_: d-i already has support for modprobing i8042 ...03:38
elmo_kamion: can and is, that's why it's minor.. it's to try and help  freaks who compile their own kernel03:38
Kamionelmo_: yeah, I know, it's an awkward problem03:38
Kamionelmo_: ah03:38
Kamionelmo_: well, how about making I8042 depend on PPC_CHRP, or something?03:39
Kamion(whatever needs it, maybe PPC_CHRP | PPC_PREP)03:39
mvo_rburton: will the app-installer only work with applications in main? or will it support universe as well?03:39
rburtonmvo_, just main03:39
Kamionelmo_: then presumably you'll not compile CHRP support into your custom kernel and you'll get a warning if you try to turn on i804203:39
rburtonmvo_, latest versions have an "Advanced" button which spawns synaptic03:39
mvo_so you use a config file that white-lists what apps are we allow to install?03:39
rburtonfar more cunning than that03:40
mvo_tell me :)03:40
rburtonmvo_, jdub originally had the idea to embed the data in .desktop files03:40
mvo_yes, that was my original idea as well03:40
elmo_kamion: yeah... but i guess there might be other ppc embedded stuff with i8042's.. I should probably just give it up.. after all, it's not rocket science to figure out the culprit when it panics :)03:40
rburtonmvo_, i'm hacking it with local .desktop files at the moment, but this afternoon i'm going to try and write a script to scan a deb archive and extract the .desktop files and the icons03:41
Mitariosweet :)03:42
Kamionelmo_: well, suggested it to Herbert anyway, will see what he thinks03:42
rburtonthus you get names, descriptions and icons03:42
Mitariorburton, doing all this with python-apt?03:42
mvo_rburton: I can send you a prototype for such a script. i hacked it to find out about how many dekstop files are in the archive. it's a bit messy though :)03:42
rburtonmvo_, that would be great03:42
rburtonMitario, hopefully03:42
rburtonhm, can i spawn a new process in python which is detached from the parent?03:44
tsengthom: noticed a few other things as well03:47
Mitarioso, any place where we can host all stuff? (svn/cvs repo's)03:48
rburtonMitario, i was going to abuse my gnome cvs commit access03:49
Mitarioheh, euhm, well, can do that too :/03:49
Mitariodon't we have to ask permission for it?03:49
rburtonnot now the server has huuuge amounts of disk space i believe03:51
Mitarioreally? so I won't get ass-kicked if I import a module?03:51
Mitariorburton, btw, that screenshot you just showed, is it a mockup? or actually code?03:52
rburtonMitario, code03:52
Mitariohmm, I would love to know how you have made that lovely treeview in python :)03:52
rburtonGtkTreeView is a black art03:53
rburtonevery time i use it i learn something new03:53
rburtoni was going to write a big blog entry about it03:53
Mitarioheh :)03:53
rburtonMitario, summary: renderer.set_cell_data_func() can do a lot.03:53
=== Mitario wonders if making ruby-apt bindings is hard
mvo_rburton: mail with the desktop file scaner is on the way03:56
rburtonmvo_, i *think* there is an easier way03:59
mvo_tell me04:00
rburtoni may be wrong, give me a minute :)04:00
=== Mitario reads diveintopython
lamontamu: cool.04:02
lamontamu: wondering about the firmware loading stuff that you were looking at.04:03
=== rburton on phone
fabbionemdz: ping04:06
danielswow, workrave is awesome04:08
=== daniels disables gnome-typing-monitor.
fabbionedaniels: damn.. i can't link xlibi18n properly04:09
danielsthe monolithic tree's libx11 is horiffic04:10
danielshorrific, even04:10
fabbionedaniels: well.. there a simple solution04:10
fabbioneit's a subsplit :-)04:11
fabbioneX11 builds and links fine04:11
fabbionei can't manage to tell the xlibi18n where to find the .so for linking04:11
danielsyou hvae to build i18n with libx1104:12
danielsthere's not much way around that, i'm afraid04:12
amulamont: firmware, hmm 3 points, depends our policy, the driver itself, there are problems with acpi/suspend and of course a licenses   04:14
=== jdthood [jdthood@x113.decis.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontamu: the firmware we think we can ship is on the CD, not getting installed correctly.04:14
lamontat the very least, a note for the errata saying how to install the firmware post-boot...04:15
lamontmdz said that even if he installed the firmware post boot, removing/reinserting didn't dothe right thing either.04:15
amulamont: the driver itself it's fine ? most of drivers arnt designed for 2.6 and acpi   04:15
lamontamu: dunno04:16
lamontapparently works on installed kernel, not on liveCD, or I'd expect mdz to have said it differently04:16
amulamont: a clean driver with kernel 2.6 support should be no problem, me points to the wifi, those sucks without end  04:17
amulamont: i do not know, we should add those firmware step by step, each release on more, and wait for a bugreport 04:19
fabbionedaniels: no no.. i18n is built after X1104:19
lamontamu: the firmware is on the CD.04:19
lamontfor warty04:19
fabbionedaniels: but i think i found the option to use04:19
danielsfabbione: i think the trees are codependent though04:19
lamontit's just not downloaded to the card correctly.04:19
=== lamont bbiab
amupciid's / usbid's are known ? 04:20
fabbionedaniels: the i18n has it's own set of configfiles. It ignores most of the top level Imakefiles entries04:20
mvo_rburton, Mitario: I just looked over python-apt and it looks like the complette pkgDepCache interface is missing04:20
fabbionedaniels: basically a retarted mess04:20
danielsfabbione: and this surprises you? :)04:22
Mitariomvo_, enlighten me, what's that precisely (i'm not too familiar with apt internals)04:22
fabbionedaniels: considering you are upstream? no :P04:23
mvo_Mitario: it is need to mark packages for install and removal and stuff04:23
Mitariowell, do we need that?04:24
Mitarioi mean, we call synaptic --set-selections04:24
Mitariodon't we?04:24
mvo_sure :) I was just thinking about the long-term needs04:24
mvo_if we want to be 100% python in the future04:25
Mitariook :)04:25
Mitariohmm, yeah04:25
danielsfabbione: hey man, I'm not upstream for that monolithic POS :) i'm upstream for the working modular stuff04:26
fabbionedaniels: same POS :P04:29
=== fabbione hides
rburtonmvo_, huge amounts of apt-pkg are missing04:29
mvo_rburton: yes. fetcher, and installprogress too04:30
danielsfabbione: hey man, modular == love04:34
=== fabbione kicks Library.tmpl
fabbionethat's why it was not linking04:39
fabbionein my imakefile04:39
fabbioneEXTRA_LDLIB = -L../../..04:39
fabbionethat is loaded before Library.tmpl04:40
fabbionethat of course has:04:40
fabbioneEXTRA_LDLIB =04:40
fabbioneok changes the xi18 template04:42
fabbioneand that's it04:42
fabbionethat call isn't used anywhere else04:42
Mitariomvo_, rburton, btw if we use synaptic as default, we need to let the packages depend on it (which is ok by me)04:43
danielsfabbione: this is why you need to use the modular tree, dude04:44
fabbionedaniels: dude.. it's not like i don't want to use it04:50
fabbionedaniels: we need to figure stuff out first anyway04:50
danielswhich stuff?04:51
fabbionedaniels: well I need to figure stuff out first04:51
fabbionei am getting to know each single bit of the tree04:51
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionei am definetly tired05:05
fabbioneit was such a simple solution that i couldn't even see it05:05
=== ajame [~ajame@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontamu: same card works on installed system, etc, etc.  it's simply that the downloading of the firmware is b0rked05:09
amulamont: looks like, the other thing is driver itself, what happen after a suspend. If it comes up again, i suggest driver is acceped05:15
lamontthe other thing?05:16
=== amu sends ipw2100 to hell
=== ajame [~ajame@] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
amulamont: loading a driver is a criteria, the sys should load them. But what we win, if the driver is loaded but under working conditions it crash all time ?05:18
amubest example ipw 05:18
Mitariorburton, mvo_ have an idea for the name of what is now called my 'update-center'?05:28
rburtonMitario, erm...  Available Upgrades?05:29
Mitarioyeah, i mean package and binary name05:29
Mitarioupdate-center is a little too 'big' for it05:29
Mitarioi mean, it just shows you the available updates, lets you select them and install them05:29
=== fabbione starts the X variant of the Ubuntu dance
Mitariohmm, 'update-manager'?05:30
rburtonMitario, deb-updater?05:30
Mitariohmm, good idea05:30
=== Keybuk [~scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mitariorburton, update-manager gets more votes here :)05:33
rburtonupdate-manager works for me05:33
mdzfabbione: pong05:35
mdzKamion: proactive security stuff sounds like ->TB, or even ->HoaryKickoff05:37
Kamionyeah, doesn't seem like a board issue until there's actually something for the board to decide on05:37
Kamion-> HoaryHedgehog maybe?05:37
mdzelmo_: libpng looks good as far as binaries and stuff; are we clear to amber?05:37
mdzKamion: I think so, yes05:38
mdzat the kickoff meeting, we'll review all of the proposed featured and decide what we can do05:38
KamionI stuck a bunch of stuff in InstallerTeam05:38
Kamionalthough maybe it fits better in HoaryHedgehog, I'll review05:39
Kamiondaniels: is it seen as a problem that Xcb's name clashes with that of a cut buffer library?05:41
Mitariorburton, oh, about the configuration, like if the user even wants an automatic updates check, shall we put those in gconf?05:42
Mitarioor do we need a more general config something05:42
rburtonprobably a good idea, with a check box in the UI somewhere05:44
Mitarioyeah ok, but which config back-end do we use?05:44
Mitariobest thing would be some kind of Computer -> System Configuration -> Automatic Updates configure app05:44
lamontKamion: am I correct in believing that d-i needs Packages, not Packages.gz?05:44
Mitarioand I like to use gconf for that05:45
Kamionlamont: I thought it could cope with either05:45
Kamion            for ext in '' '.gz'; do05:45
Kamion                pkgfile="$comp/debian-installer/binary-$ARCH/Packages$ext"05:45
Kamionlamont: WHICH Packages? :-)05:45
=== lamont will try it that way.
Kamionlamont: debian-installer/binary-$ARCH, or just binary-$ARCH?05:46
Mitariobut enabling the update-notifier could be better arranged at distro-level05:46
lamontwell, turns out that not having main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages* was kinda fatal. :)05:46
Kamioncertainly you need one or the other05:46
Kamionwhat are you trying to do?05:46
lamontand the error message was a bit less than helpful for a while...05:46
lamontinstall DVD05:46
Keybukit'd be better having a "Software" system configuration dialog, from which you could edit sources.list etc.05:46
mvo_Mitario: apt has it's own config system05:46
Kamionlamont: you know, I could probably just build one on little with considerably less faff ...05:46
Mitariomvo_, ok, but the user should be able to configure if the update-notifier is started at for example login05:47
lamontKamion: so I started with our install release CD, and dropped in a new pool and dists. kinda nuked a couple things..05:47
Kamionwhat extra stuff are you trying to include?05:47
lamontall of main, restricted, and little bits of universe (gotta have frozen bubble, dammit)05:47
lamontthen I dropped the open CD in to flesh out the 4.x GB05:47
Mitariomvo_, what kind of mechanism can we use for that..05:47
Kamionlamont: mmmkay05:47
KamionI think we should start building DVDs for Hoary, personally05:48
Kamionalthough maybe weekly rather than daily05:48
lamontKamion: it gave my dvd burner something to do while the livecd images were building yesterday05:48
Kamionbit uncomfortable with chewing 12GB a day :)05:48
lamontKamion: if you built me 4GB, I could download it in somewhere around 14 days05:48
mvo_Mitario: we could use the apt conf file mechanism for this, it's pretty flexible and generic. but then we will have to link against it :/05:48
danielsKamion: not really, we've dealt with this sort of thing before; library vs binary05:48
lamontor pay through the nose05:49
Kamionlamont: jigdo, dude :)05:49
Kamionmight not even put the DVDs up for download most of the time05:49
lamontgonna have to learn that sometime, eh?05:49
lamontfwiw, my solution was to add main/debian-installer/binary-i386 to my mirror, and then things are "just dealt with"05:50
lamontalthough the mirror only has .gz for Packages and Sources, hence the question05:50
Kamionlamont: I'd've thought just Packages.gz would be fine; if not, there's a bug. Make sure it shows up in dists/warty/Release ...05:52
=== Kamion does 'cvs -nq up' in his debian-cd checkout, and fears
lamontthat's all there - It was an early victim of the "d-i missing, but error not clear to this moron" thinking05:52
lamontfreshening a few depends into my archive, and then I'll burn another05:52
Kamionthere are a number of things which can easily go wrong; you get used to them fairly quickly and learn to automatically avoid them ...05:53
lamontmd5sums.txt is just for warm fuzzies, yes?05:53
Kamionone gotcha is: you cannot have more than one debian-installer Packages file (i.e. multiple components).05:53
Kamionlamont: no, cdrom-checker looks at it05:53
Kamiontechnically optional, in that cdrom-checker is optional05:54
fabbionemdz: elmo said that he was waiting for you to "amber"05:54
Kamionyou'll run into the multiple-d-i-Packages problem with restricted firmware udebs; the standard workaround is to just cat the two Packages files together05:54
Mitariomvo_, another then, when are you going to check when/if the upgrade-notification daemon should be started?05:54
Kamion(so you end up with dists/warty/main/debian-installer/binary-*/Packages* mentioning stuff in pool/restricted/, but, well, can't be helped ...)05:55
=== fabbione just found a way to simply xorg build dep and patches of one level... just because he opened his eyes
lamontKamion: trivial to generate though05:55
Kamionlamont: yep05:56
mdzfabbione: do you have advisory text written?05:57
Kamioneventually, I hope to make it that you can install debian-cd from hoary and build Hoary CDs ...06:01
Kamionbut that's a ways away06:01
fabbionemdz: i was going to copy the one from joey06:02
fabbionemdz: i don't have anything better than that06:02
Mitariomvo_, we can put the daemon in the default session06:02
mdzfabbione: ok, I will write it06:02
fabbionemdz: ok06:02
mvo_Mitario: yes06:03
Mitarioand let the daemon check for a gconf/configuration key06:03
Mitariogconf would be the nicest06:03
lamontKamion: thanks06:04
Mitariomvo_, good ideas (tm) sjoerd simons06:05
sjoerdMitario: hehe06:07
ajwarty includes some debs straight from experimental?06:11
danielsaj: specific example?06:12
elmo_mdz: yes06:12
danielser, all our GNOME stuff was done in-house and later contributed back to Debian by way of an upload to experimental, IIRC06:12
elmo_mdz: sorry, I sent you mail, but it didn't work, cos of  where I am06:12
Kamiongnome-terminal may be an exception06:13
Kamionit doesn't seem to have been updated in warty since June06:13
Kamionpresumably we just took a convenient package of whatever was the latest version06:13
KamionI remember seb128 mentioning that there hadn't been a new upstream release of gnome-terminal for 2.806:14
Mitarioreminds me06:14
Mitarioseb128, here?06:14
seb128they release 2.8.0 last week06:14
Mitarioseb128, if you want to create a new trashapplet package, just diff against trashapplet in gnome-applets06:15
seb128I don't06:15
Mitariook :)06:15
seb128warty has been released, no new version06:16
seb128and hoary will have gnome-applets 2.10 ...06:16
seb128what about gnome-terminal ?06:16
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ajdoes kill -HUP $NVI_PID  make nvi write a save file, or is it something else?06:21
seb128for gnome-terminal, 2.7.3 has been released the 30th of june and 2.8.0 the 16th of october06:21
seb128that's why it has not changed in warty06:21
KeybukMitario, rburton: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software.png06:22
MitarioKeybuk, cool, a friendly sources.list editor?06:22
Kamion       SIGHUP06:22
Kamion       SIGTERM06:22
Kamion              If the current buffer has changed since it was last  written  in06:22
Kamion              its  entirety,  the editor attempts to save the modified file so06:22
Kamion              it can be later recovered.  See the vi/ex Reference manual  sec06:22
Kamion              tion entitled Recovery for more information.06:22
Keybuk*shrug* just done a UI mock-up to inspire your discussion :p06:22
Kamion(apologies for UTF-8)06:22
MitarioKeybuk, aah, well this looks great really :)06:23
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MitarioI would like to see something like this in the menu :)06:24
Mitarioand as soon as you check the 'internet update' checkbox, the notification daemon is loaded, and a gconf property is set06:24
Keybukwould be good, wouldn't it06:25
Mitarioyeah :)06:25
=== Mitario is hacking on update-notification atm
Mitariostill have to come to a consistancy on those update/upgrade terms :)06:25
KeybukI'd use "update" to refer to changes in individual package versions and "upgrade" to indicate a new release06:26
Mitarioi like to see it like this: there are updates for packages available, as soon as you install those updates, you upgrade the package, but of course, i can be totally wrong :)06:26
KeybukKamion: interesting that it uses  and  instead of just  and 06:27
KamionKeybuk: that's what happens when you write ``foo'' in groff source06:28
Keybukyeah, but why double single-quotes and not just a double-quote ?06:29
Kamionbecause that's what the manual page says to do :)06:29
Kamion`` can't count as a single output glyph in groff06:29
Kamionthere are other ways to get an open double quote, by not using such silly markup06:30
mvo_Keybuk: interessting mock-up06:30
ajerr, does warty contain m/any reversions? ("eww, the version in sarge has crappy new features, let's go back to version X") ?06:34
Kamionnone that spring to mind; the only thing we had to seriously back out from was mozilla-firefox 1.0pr106:36
Mitariomvo_, still around btw? :)06:36
Kamionwhich isn't in sarge or sid06:36
Kamionmdz might remember things I don't06:36
ajof the 989 packages updated in ubuntu (ie, ones with "ubuntu" version strings), 613 are older than the version now in sarge, 294 are still newer than the version in unstable06:37
Kamionyeah, we stopped automatically syncing newer versions back in June ...06:38
aj(older == lower version)06:38
mvo_Mitario: I'm about to leave06:38
ajknow the date off hand?06:38
Kamion28th I think06:38
Mitariomvo_, hehe :) have fun!06:38
ajso four months06:38
mdz28th June, yes06:38
mvo_thanks! bye everyone06:38
mdzmost of the ones which are newer are likely actually the same Debian revision, with an ubuntu revision or two attached06:38
Kamionaj: might be worth looking at bugs we resolved as NOTWARTY06:39
mdzthere are very few places where we've taken new upstream versions ahead of Debian, GNOME being the primary one06:39
ajhrm, upstream version...06:39
Kamionwe'll probably have a better idea once we've merged hoary06:39
Kamion(re-branch sid, apply warty diffs - or implement it the other way round if that happens to be a pain)06:40
=== Mitario can't wait for x.org :)
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fabbioneMitario: you will have to wait a few weeks06:41
Mitarioah, well, still can't wait for it :-)06:42
Mitariobut it's worth the waiting06:42
ajhrm, 165 still have newer upstream than debian; 30 have newer upstream than testing, but not unstable, 2 have been removed from unstable06:42
fabbioneMitario: i am afraid you will be disappointed06:42
Mitariofabbione, really?06:42
Mitariowel, i've heard it's not really stable and such06:42
Mitariobut we have daniel ;)06:43
fabbioneMitario: a lot of people believe X.org is "soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" much better than Xfree8606:43
Mitarionah, i just like the compmanager + eye-candy :)06:43
fabbionethe code base is the same06:43
fabbionewith another name06:43
fabbionea bunch of updated drivers06:43
fabbioneand the "translucency" thing or how they call it06:43
ajugh, two many options, my brain is exploding06:44
Mitarioonly thing I would add to my current graphical environment are the shadows06:44
fabbioneit's not going to make your computer running any faster or any better06:44
lamontKamion: please push 20041022-04 as rc206:45
Kamionlamont: URL, for the weak of mind?06:46
lamontpeople.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso I think06:50
lamontand torrents and all that?06:57
Kamionlamont: yup. all syncing now.06:58
lamontway kewl06:58
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lamonthrmpf.  still have 300MB of free space on the install dvd... what to add,... what to add.07:10
=== amu bruns 22-04
amulamont: kde *duck* 07:11
lamontamu: no.  that way lies terror07:11
lamontand pain07:11
lamontand insufficient space07:11
amulamont: better idea doom3-demo ;)07:11
lamontI don't want to encourage people who get my personal selection thinking about kde..07:12
=== lamont doesn't do many first-person-shooter games
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mdzlamont: only 300M? what did you stuff it with?07:13
lamontmdz: all of main and restricted, bunch of games from universe, all of my (maintained) packages, source and binary07:14
lamont+ theopencd that I brought back from Oxford07:14
lamontthat source thing kinda fills up the disk faster. :)07:14
lamonthoary feature goal: frozen-bubble and kobodeluxe in main!!!07:15
amulamont: kphone,skype :)  07:16
lamontthe local mirror has: 3945396 /org/ubuntu/tree/pool for a du -s output07:16
lamontskype isn't in the archive, and kphone is kde07:17
lamontamu: you're just being silly. :-P07:17
amuscientists may have right, irc hebetated ;) 07:20
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Kamionelmo_: meh07:35
Kamionelmo_: so, you know I was complaining about dists/warty/Release saying Preview ...07:35
Kamionelmo_: guess what I just found in debian-cd07:35
Kamion./CONF.sh:export OFFICIAL="Preview"07:35
Kamionlet's just retcon and say that warty is a Technology Preview :-)07:36
Kamionsabdfl: where was that release checklist thing?07:36
=== Kamion sets OFFICIAL back to Alpha
sabdflKamion: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/ReleaseChecklist07:38
sabdflcunningly unlinked-to07:38
Kamionaha, perfect07:42
Kamion check the volume labels on ISO's for all architectures07:42
Kamionheh, obviously we didn't follow it :)07:42
sabdflyoure welcome :-)07:42
sabdfli was writing it as things unfolded, sort of a blow by blow account07:42
sabdfli'm sure there will be more to add the night before hoary ;-)07:42
sabdfl90 days before: find 3 bourkha's07:43
=== Kamion fleshes out that comment a bit in case he gets hit by the proverbial bus
mdz           Summary: It goes straight over without any "visible" problem...07:49
mdz                    but i hate errors mostly at boot/sex time07:49
=== mdz scratches his head
lamontKamion: I've tried 25000kg trucks, they're no fun...  but a hell of a ride when they bounce you down the road...07:50
mdzI'm not sure if that's a bug report or a complaint of a personal problem07:51
Kamionmdz: I did wonder about that07:56
Kamionlamont: ouch!07:57
Kamionlamont: we should rechristen you "Man of Steel"07:57
lamontKamion: Jan 1996, really quite an interesting experience...08:00
lamontlooking out the windshield of your full-size Ford Bronco as you spin backwards down the interstate at ~25MPH, at the grill of the Freightliner doing 50MPH.  ISTR he had quite the interesting look on his face...08:01
lamontgetting dropped off at work by the nice state trooper was kinda fun too08:02
lamontalthough one coworker told me he quit asking "what if LaMont gets hit by a truck" that day...08:06
mdzwe never did come to a good conclusion on naming for the security advisories08:09
=== lamont can't think of anything better than USN
lamontKamion: and for the record, d-i doesn't care if a Packages file is 0 length... Just ignores that one.08:21
lamont(in the yet-another-non-bug-lamont-thought-he-found-for-a-while category)08:21
lamontcould do WSA, HSA, GSA, PSA and be release specifc....08:30
lamontbut that would be silly08:30
lamontmdz: how long do we want to leave rc2-live as rc2 before we bless it and throw it out the door?  I'm thinking Sat eve US time at the latest08:31
mdzlamont: please send out a call for testing08:31
mdzmaybe best to follow up to my previous one, and point to the new URL08:32
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lamontyour previous one, or mine?08:34
Mitarioum, wtf?08:39
Mitario/usr/include/bits/sigset.h:103: error: two or more data types in declaration of `__sigismember'08:39
thomtseng: please send me mail about NetMan,if you would08:39
mdz> I've just installed Ubuntu 1.0, and most things have gone well08:48
maskiemdz, did not know year 2001 had a month 0 :)08:51
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mdzhornbeck|away: ping?10:08
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doko_hmm, I'm unable to find the eps logos. anyone knows where to look?10:19
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Mitariohmm, lets see wether my gnome-session + upgrade-notification packages work :)11:05
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Mitarioyay! works11:17
hornbeckmdz: yes?11:26
mdzhornbeck: sent email11:28
hornbeckmdz: I will moderate if you want11:29
mdzhornbeck: ok, please reply to the message and let jdub know11:29
mdzhornbeck: and thanks11:29
hornbeckno prob11:30
hornbeckplovs: ping!11:32
Mitarioanyone knows stuff about the auto cdbs macro's for building a deb?11:45
Mitariolike debhelper.mk and gnome.mk11:45
hornbeckplovs: did you get the mail from mark?11:54
Mitariohmm, anyone knows a place where I could host some packages?11:55
=== lamont runs off for a little bit

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