| lamont_r | mdz: will build as soon as I get home, test, and then push the fix and build in the DC. eta ~ 2 hours | 12:01 |
|---|---|---|
| === lamont_r heads out | ||
| sivang | vmware's perl installer sucks badly | 12:13 |
| mdz | sivang: yes, but does it break samba? :-) | 12:23 |
| sivang | mdz : It needs kernel headers before, it wants to compile the kernel module | 12:24 |
| sivang | mdz : this will take me some time, but I will not go to sleep before being able to tell you if it does. | 12:24 |
| sivang | mdz : it first broke up on me and I had to clean files by hand..:-| | 12:25 |
| === doko_ [doko@dsl-084-057-017-246.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | mdz : compiling now | 12:26 |
| sivang | mdz : almost finished install | 12:27 |
| sivang | mdz : what file am I supposed to look for? | 12:30 |
| sivang | /etc/rc6.d/K19samba | 12:31 |
| sivang | /etc/rc1.d/K19samba | 12:31 |
| sivang | /etc/rc0.d/K19samba | 12:31 |
| mdz | sivang: that looks normal | 12:32 |
| mdz | i.e., not mangled | 12:32 |
| sivang | mdz : I can remove my samba and reinstall it just to see if it makes through it, what do you say? | 12:33 |
| sivang | (without purgin conf files ofcourse :) | 12:33 |
| mdz | sivang: apparently, vmware has some integration with samba | 12:33 |
| mdz | sivang: are you sure that you enabled this and it was activated? | 12:33 |
| sivang | it uses samba to give access to the host's filesystem | 12:33 |
| sivang | mdz : everything that just had samba in the name, I said yes. | 12:33 |
| sivang | mdz : especially bridge networking thingies, and configure access to the host file system through samba | 12:34 |
| mdz | it could be a different version of vmware which has the bug...it's just a guess, really | 12:34 |
| mdz | I don't think it's a package in Ubuntu which causes this | 12:34 |
| sivang | mdz : I can runleve 1 and back see if anything breaks | 12:37 |
| mdz | sivang: the bug is that something deletes the /etc/rc?.d/K19samba links | 12:37 |
| mdz | and creates broken /etc/rc?.d/K09samba links | 12:37 |
| === antonio_ [~antonio@FW-54-234.go.retevision.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| antonio_ | hi! | 12:48 |
| lamont | moo | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | i've just installed ubuntu... | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | ... it's cool! | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | anyone knows how to install mono on it? | 12:48 |
| lamont | antonio_: I think it's just a matter of adding universe (see /etc/apt/sources.list), and running synaptic | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | ok, thanx! | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | i'm so interested in configure grub ui, anyone knows where to touch in? | 12:48 |
| sivang | mdz : you have a sn for vmware? | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | me? | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | i don't have it | 12:48 |
| azeem | antonio_: gnome-systems-tools can configure grub AFAIK, though I believe that part of it is not shipped by ubuntu | 12:48 |
| sivang | no I was asking mdz, as we are trying to reproduce a bug related to vmware and ubuntu | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | oks | 12:48 |
| sivang | antonio_ : you might want to ask on #ubuntu, this is rather a development general discussion channel | 12:48 |
| antonio_ | ok, thanx! | 12:49 |
| mdz | sivang: no, I do not | 12:49 |
| sivang | mdz : ok, I'll register there | 12:50 |
| amu | lamont: ping | 12:59 |
| === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | ack | 01:01 |
| amu | guess i got it, i think pentium 233mmx is a 386, livecd kernel has only support for >486 | 01:02 |
| lamont | huh? I thought mmx > 486, no? | 01:03 |
| elmo_ | anything with pentium in the CPU name is >= 586 | 01:04 |
| amu | compared both, installkernel is 386 with emu, live is 486 no C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cemu | 01:04 |
| pitti | mdz: so shall I do the security uploads tomorrow? | 01:08 |
| mdz | elmo_: what's the status of the security queue? | 01:09 |
| mdz | pitti: they should be peer reviewed first | 01:09 |
| pitti | mdz: I took the patches from Debian, but I will just upload the packages to chinstrap | 01:10 |
| pitti | mdz: http://chinstrap/~pitti/ | 01:11 |
| pitti | mdz: sorry, https of course | 01:11 |
| === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | night everybody | 01:16 |
| sivang | night pitti | 01:16 |
| === kylem wonders if lamont fixed mplayer | ||
| mdz | amu: the live CD kernel is 2.6.7 + morphix stuff, the instal kernel is 2.6.8.1 + ubuntu stuff. they are entirely different kernels | 01:18 |
| Kamion | mdz: what, we haven't updated the live kernel? boggle | 01:18 |
| mdz | Kamion: it uses this very sketchy kernel module which was suspected to break under 2.6.8.1 | 01:18 |
| Kamion | oh, that overlay thing | 01:22 |
| amu | mdz: is it possible to find it out with which command the kernel was build, make-kpkg .... | 01:24 |
| lamont | kylem: after livecd ships | 01:29 |
| kylem | lamont, lol, ok. :) | 01:29 |
| mdz | I just had vim segfault on me on the live CD | 01:35 |
| mdz | in mini_fo_rename | 01:35 |
| amu | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12672488 Oct 3 13:32 kernel-image-2.6.7_10.00.Custom_i386.deb is builded with scsci_multi_lun=y | 01:37 |
| amu | #1995 | 01:38 |
| mdz | thanks | 01:38 |
| chrisa | /sbin/init: 429: cannot open dev/console: No such file | 01:39 |
| chrisa | fun | 01:39 |
| amu | mdz: what was the problem with #1995 ? | 01:40 |
| mdz | amu: perhaps alex fixed it and forgot to close the bug? | 01:41 |
| mdz | amu: I opened it almost 3 weeks ago | 01:41 |
| chrisa | ah, bug in the image | 01:42 |
| amu | ok, should i diff it with the ubuntu kernel ? or closing the bug ? | 01:42 |
| === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| amu | mdz: guess the problem was with nvidia-modules, why not running the same kernel ? right ? | 01:45 |
| mdz | amu: diff it | 01:45 |
| mdz | see if there are any other significant differences | 01:45 |
| mdz | amu: as I said to Kamion above, the reason it isn't the same kernel is because of this mini_fo nastiness | 01:46 |
| lamont | where is the '-' on a french keyboard? | 01:46 |
| mdz | lamont: it's under computer->desktop preferences->(thing that looks like a keyboard) | 01:48 |
| mdz | clavier or something | 01:48 |
| amu | ^k, diff comes tomorrow | 01:49 |
| lamont | was actually trying to type in a tty, | 01:49 |
| === lamont screams, finding empirical evidence (maybe) of why boot takes forever sometimes... have to double check | ||
| doogie | lamont: it takes forever sometimes because someone told grub to boot windows? | 01:53 |
| lamont | mdz: wrt the sources.list - do we want to move the mirrors off of p.u.o? | 01:54 |
| === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | lamont: I was thinking more that those entries could be removed from the installed system. what's there? | 01:54 |
| lamont | which entries? | 01:56 |
| sivang | just tried to boot cd, loops back at the grub menu. | 01:57 |
| sivang | (livecd) | 01:57 |
| lamont | two sound devices (??) --> two esd's (definite) --> hang for a while. | 01:57 |
| lamont | sivang: which CD? | 01:57 |
| lamont | version | 01:57 |
| sivang | warty-live-i386-20041021-06 | 01:58 |
| sivang | could I have again a bad burn? | 01:58 |
| lamont | could be | 01:58 |
| lamont | I believe that others have booted it successfully | 01:58 |
| sivang | I guess nobody reported that ha? | 01:58 |
| sivang | ok | 01:58 |
| sivang | I'll give it another burn | 01:58 |
| lamont | killing the ESD that's hanging out there during the "hang" (really a stall) gets us past that... | 01:58 |
| lamont | mdz: so why doesn't locale-gen fix the perms itself? | 02:03 |
| chrisa | Does linux-source-2.6.8.1 contain the .config used to generate the kernel images? | 02:07 |
| lupus_ | when will hoary repository open up? | 02:07 |
| mdz | lamont: dunno. why does it end up with wrong permissions in morphix? | 02:09 |
| lamont | still arguing with that, I fear | 02:09 |
| amu | chrisa: nope, you get it from the image | 02:10 |
| mdz | lamont: re: which entries, the sources.list entries | 02:10 |
| lamont | yes | 02:11 |
| mdz | lamont: I'm afraid uploading glibc is out of the question at this stage, so the permission thing will need to be fixed in the morphix side of things | 02:11 |
| lamont | the ones that all point to p.u.o/~lamont/LiveCD | 02:11 |
| lamont | could probably move to something more official-esque, eh? | 02:11 |
| lamont | mdz: that was a granted assumption. Just grousing | 02:11 |
| mdz | lamont: what packages are they expected to retrieve from ~lamont/LiveCD? | 02:12 |
| lamont | none, unless you're building a liveCD | 02:12 |
| mdz | I assume that only contains the morphix-specific packages, which aren't even installed in the mainmodule, are they? | 02:12 |
| mdz | so they don't need to be present in the file on the live CD | 02:12 |
| lamont | there are also 2? packagees from universe that are on the livecd, and present in LiveCD/warthog on the mirror | 02:13 |
| lamont | but I got rid of pump... | 02:13 |
| mdz | lamont: what's the other one? | 02:14 |
| === amu moves to bed; n8 -R * | ||
| lamont | dialog :-( | 02:15 |
| lamont | libpci1 is there for aumix | 02:15 |
| lamont | (pump was #3.) | 02:15 |
| mdz | fabbione: your gpg emails are full of CR/LFs still | 02:18 |
| mdz | lamont: aumix is in universe too | 02:18 |
| mdz | shouldn't need it, either. we have alsamixer | 02:19 |
| === lamont will build without it this pass | ||
| elmo_ | mm, neat, xmms still has that "playing at 1.5x speed" bug on my laptop. I rock at reporting bugs on time. | 02:19 |
| lamont | dialog is also universe | 02:19 |
| lamont | mdz: aumix is in base, not mainmod. | 02:20 |
| lamont | which means it's there for hw detection crap, probably | 02:20 |
| mdz | that also means it's fine if it's missing from /etc/apt/sources.list in mainmod | 02:21 |
| === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | yes. | 02:21 |
| lamont | now I just have to figure out how to deal with that. | 02:21 |
| mdz | lamont: if it's non-trivial, I don't care if it stays there | 02:22 |
| mdz | there are certainly worse bugs at this point | 02:22 |
| lamont | mdz: it's a mod to morphix-mmaker | 02:22 |
| lamont | ==> no | 02:22 |
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| lamont | seb128 around? | 02:25 |
| lamont | or jdub? | 02:25 |
| lamont | or anyone who knows how esd gets launched? | 02:25 |
| === Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lamont glares at the '&' character, pushes the localization bug to the top of the hill again | ||
| === madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo_ | yeah | 02:28 |
| elmo_ | meh. window focus is for lamers. | 02:28 |
| lamont | follow the bouncing focus. | 02:28 |
| lamont | in other unrelated news, my install DVD boots now. | 02:30 |
| === lamont consdiers a bug against d-i asking it to take Packages.gz when Packages doesn't exist. | ||
| lamont | and, if the Packages file isn't mentioned in Release, to just bitch loudly and ask before using, rather than loop forever. | 02:31 |
| === rabidbt [~rabidbt@66.45.74.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | mdz : it works no problem so far, however I didn't try to remove and reinstall samba | 02:54 |
| sivang | night all | 03:06 |
| tseng | will there be security advisories on the main page? | 03:07 |
| mdz | justdave: around? | 03:10 |
| mdz | tseng: there's an 'errata' section under documentation; I imagine we'll put them there | 03:10 |
| tseng | sure | 03:11 |
| === lamont burns another live cd, colorado edition | ||
| lamont | no esd takers, eh? | 03:11 |
| mdz | lamont: hmm? | 03:12 |
| lamont | under conditions unknown, I find that the liveCD stalls with the X background, and a cursor. | 03:13 |
| lamont | killing the running ESD at that point causes the system to finish coming up into gnome. | 03:13 |
| lamont | (with esd running) | 03:14 |
| lamont | there are errors/warnings in the main (f1) screen about another esd process already running | 03:14 |
| tseng | i realize that bluefoxicy is a complete tool, but are any of you folks interested in hardening daemons | 03:14 |
| tseng | ssp/pie | 03:15 |
| tseng | http://www.trl.ibm.com/projects/security/ssp/ | 03:16 |
| mdz | lamont: I have seen no such behaviour | 03:16 |
| lamont | maybe it's a vaio special, or something unique to the colorado edition | 03:17 |
| lamont | brb | 03:17 |
| mdz | tseng: there is some proactive security stuff on the list of proposed hoary feature goals | 03:17 |
| tseng | mdz: yeah, bluefoxicy put it together | 03:17 |
| tseng | if you mean the wiki page | 03:17 |
| tseng | he is one of our user/trolls at hardened gentoo | 03:18 |
| mdz | tseng: I mean the HoaryHedgehog page | 03:18 |
| === tseng sees SELinux on the list | ||
| === jamesh [~james@203-59-217-232.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | yes | 03:31 |
| justdave | mdz: pong | 03:39 |
| mdz | justdave: filed a bug (the live CD thing) | 03:46 |
| justdave | ok, just saw that and replied | 03:47 |
| daniels | mdz: #277699 | 04:16 |
| daniels | mdz: we don't care about PAE, yeah? | 04:16 |
| jdub | ahr | 04:19 |
| jdub | morning | 04:19 |
| jdub | lamont: topic has the latest build? | 04:19 |
| lamont | latest dc build, yes. | 04:19 |
| lamont | I'm fixing localization right now, burning what I think is the last CD for that. | 04:19 |
| lamont | then I need artwork from you, dude. Or we're gonna ship | 04:19 |
| lamont | :0) | 04:19 |
| lamont | mdz: anything besides localization that we want to get in before we ship? | 04:20 |
| daniels | jdub: morning | 04:20 |
| lamont | will work on understanding minifo as well tonight, but I think that's opportunistic dependiing on how bad it is | 04:20 |
| === benh [~benh@202.46.137.12] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| benh | bob2: like this ? :) | 04:24 |
| bob2 | hehehe | 04:24 |
| jdub | lamont: you want a final grub-gfxboot image? | 04:25 |
| benh | so as I was saying on the other channel, it would be useful for you guys to send your old crappy outdated overpatches glibc down the gutter | 04:25 |
| benh | and get something decent :) | 04:25 |
| benh | ppc had NPTL/TLS support for a looong time now, but the debian glibc is just too old | 04:25 |
| jdub | hey benh | 04:27 |
| jdub | benh: i put your glibc request on the HoaryHedgehog feature goals list :-) | 04:27 |
| lamont | jdub: if I don't get one, then the one I have is final... :-) | 04:27 |
| benh | good :) | 04:27 |
| jdub | lamont: it's fine, but it doesn't have anything up the top left | 04:27 |
| === jdub is not too concerned | ||
| lamont | right. this is your chance, taken or not. | 04:27 |
| lamont | just wanted to give our RELEASE MANAGER a chance to slip in one more change before release, and all that... | 04:28 |
| jdub | how many minutes? :) | 04:28 |
| jdub | haha | 04:28 |
| tseng | thom: ping | 04:28 |
| lamont | oh, I'd like to burn the final sometime within the next 3 hours or so. | 04:28 |
| lamont | which means you have < 2 hours. | 04:28 |
| jdub | tops | 04:28 |
| benh | the main reason debian glibc is outdated is to support exotic archs | 04:29 |
| tseng | thom: your NetworkManager initscript checks for /usr/bin/NetworkManager || exit 0 | 04:29 |
| tseng | thom: NetworkManager is in sbin | 04:29 |
| benh | amd64, x86 and ppc all benefit from a more recent drop, and especially ppc & ppc64 | 04:29 |
| benh | the main problem with glibc however is that there are no more releases afaik | 04:29 |
| daniels | yeah, I was going to say | 04:30 |
| benh | just a cvs and the "bugs of the day" | 04:30 |
| daniels | we don't have mipsel to support | 04:30 |
| benh | so you sort-of need to track your own tree, bringing in things from the cvs with caution | 04:30 |
| jdub | boo hoo | 04:30 |
| jdub | i want ubuntu on my qube | 04:30 |
| jdub | it is my firewall ;) | 04:30 |
| bob2 | hehehe | 04:31 |
| bob2 | HoaryGoals - Support jdub's firewall. | 04:31 |
| jdub | :-) | 04:31 |
| jdub | and the linksys is mipsel | 04:31 |
| jdub | though you probably wouldn't use glibc on it | 04:31 |
| lamont | if we're supporting jdub's firewall, I want mine supported too! | 04:31 |
| bob2 | haha | 04:31 |
| lamont | (hppa) | 04:31 |
| daniels | WRTbuntu | 04:31 |
| kylem | i heard someone speaking about an embedded ubuntu. | 04:32 |
| bob2 | and my alpha. | 04:32 |
| lamont | jdub: what starts esd? | 04:32 |
| daniels | ebuntu | 04:32 |
| daniels | i love it | 04:32 |
| jdub | lamont: gnome-session, i believe | 04:32 |
| kylem | support my itanic. ;-) | 04:32 |
| jdub | kylem: mdz has done something, dunno what though | 04:32 |
| jdub | kylem: there are plans for something reasonably official, too, though | 04:32 |
| jdub | lamont: my hppa is horribly hot and loud | 04:33 |
| lamont | kylem: ia64 support is actually in the works | 04:33 |
| kylem | lamont, i heard tbone speaking of it. | 04:33 |
| lamont | jdub: mine's in the utility room | 04:33 |
| jdub | haha, from mbp: | 04:33 |
| jdub | "xdiskusage is a great little tool to show what is using up space on a disk. | 04:33 |
| jdub | There is also Filelight which has a bit more eye-candy, but depends on KDE and so may be a bit counter-productive in freeing up disk space." | 04:33 |
| lamont | jdub: so here's the thing with my vaio... | 04:33 |
| lamont | esd sometimes gets launched twice (based on the complaints that it'salready running)... and gnome-splash gets delayed until either something like 3-5 minutes go by, or you jump into a vt and kill the esd that's in ps output... | 04:34 |
| lamont | what needs to get h0rked? | 04:34 |
| lamont | only one esd in the ps output: /usr/bin/esd -terminate -nobeeps -as 2 -spawnfd 17 | 04:35 |
| lamont | l10n happiness! | 04:35 |
| jdub | lamont: what's in ~/.gnome2/session ? | 04:36 |
| lamont | jdub: well, the whole directory gets nuked each boot, so I'd say the default... | 04:36 |
| lamont | liveCD | 04:37 |
| jdub | oh | 04:37 |
| jdub | um | 04:37 |
| lamont | there is an ac97 modem there as well as the sound device | 04:37 |
| jdub | it's not a crazy morphix initscript, is it? | 04:37 |
| lamont | don't think so... | 04:37 |
| lamont | didn't see 'esd' anywhere in the scripts when I looked... what else should I grep for? | 04:37 |
| jdub | so this is a general livecd problem, or just your vaio? | 04:37 |
| lamont | mdz hasn't seen it, he has 2 sound devices. | 04:38 |
| jdub | nothing, i don't htink | 04:38 |
| lamont | it may even be specific to the colorado edition | 04:38 |
| === lamont waits for his japanese boot to finish, then he'll reboot to check some things | ||
| lamont | jdub: funny thing is, it doesn't do it every time. only some times. | 04:38 |
| lamont | yep. that's japanese, alright. | 04:39 |
| lamont | "Computer" didn't get translated, though. | 04:40 |
| lamont | nor did a bunch of other stuff. feh | 04:40 |
| jdub | we don't have an ubuntu alternate dimension yet | 04:42 |
| jdub | so no japanese translations | 04:42 |
| tseng | is there anything in debian initscripts to tell one service to start before another? | 04:42 |
| jdub | no | 04:43 |
| tseng | or just by the #'s in rc.d | 04:43 |
| jdub | Sxx <- | 04:43 |
| jdub | :) | 04:43 |
| tseng | :) fair nuff | 04:43 |
| jdub | don't go all gentoo on us ;) | 04:43 |
| tseng | networkmanager wants to start before dbus | 04:43 |
| lamont | jdub: _I_ can translate to japanese, so can jane. | 04:43 |
| tseng | jdub, i was a gentoo devel for ~1 year | 04:43 |
| jdub | lamont: we need to foster an alternate dimension though | 04:43 |
| jdub | tseng: (i know) | 04:43 |
| tseng | :P | 04:44 |
| lamont | yeah | 04:44 |
| lamont | gimp in japanese is interesting.. | 04:44 |
| bob2 | tseng: we forgive you :-p | 04:44 |
| tseng | heh. | 04:44 |
| tseng | i found my way back to debian, thanks to the Mad Phat startup | 04:44 |
| jdub | haha | 04:44 |
| bob2 | you should star in a community service announcement | 04:45 |
| tseng | i converted a few people | 04:45 |
| bob2 | "I was once a Debian user, then I fell into the wrong crowd...started using gentoo, compiling things from source, using -O99 and -fomit-instructions...then I found Ubuntu. They helped me go back to actually using my machine, not just building stuff over and over. Thanks, Mad Phat Startup!" | 04:46 |
| tseng | haha, yeah | 04:46 |
| tseng | the gentoo user base is pretty heinous, that extends to some of the development community as well these days | 04:47 |
| tseng | brb, added NetworkManager at S25 | 04:49 |
| jdub | bob2: "this has been a community service announcement (*cough* sponsored by canonical)" | 04:49 |
| === lamont isn't familiar with -fomit-instructions | ||
| bob2 | bwahaha | 04:49 |
| tseng | the straw that broke my back was | 04:53 |
| tseng | someone thought it was a good idea to add gcc 3.4 to the "unstable" distro | 04:53 |
| daniels | to be fair, when we put in gcc 3.2, it broke Xau at -O2 | 04:53 |
| daniels | so you couldn't actually start any X apps, unless you started with access control disabled | 04:54 |
| daniels | this was on i386 and powerpc, where the build actually succeeded | 04:54 |
| daniels | it failed on arm, mips, mipsel and m68k with an ICE, but that's not even the thrust of my argument here :P | 04:54 |
| bob2 | oh yeah, fun times | 04:55 |
| jdub | wow, lots of comments on the LWN article | 04:59 |
| === lamont makes a new DC cd | ||
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| kylem | one thing that would be a nice 'enterprise' feature from ubuntu, is the ability to configure nis/ldap during firstboot... | 05:06 |
| bob2 | "From what I hear Europe is about 5 to 7 years ahead of us in depravity" | 05:06 |
| lamont | jdub: and they're largely scary replies... | 05:06 |
| bob2 | tjc is massively anti-ubuntu, whoever that is | 05:07 |
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| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | kylem: there's plenty of room on the install CD to add a package or 3 to do just that... | 05:08 |
| lamont | and point at the corporate mirror, and configure the corporate DNS/MTA/... config, etc. | 05:08 |
| === kylem nods. | ||
| jdub | yeah, though we probably wouldn't ask the questions by default | 05:09 |
| lamont | but then, that's customizing the CD, which is work for many | 05:09 |
| jdub | you'd have to use kickstart or pre-seeding | 05:09 |
| jdub | which would be reasonably appropriate anyway | 05:09 |
| lamont | jdub: instead of expert, just boot 'corporate' | 05:09 |
| jdub | we probably shouldn't have too many of those :) | 05:10 |
| kylem | kickstart would be cool, heh. | 05:10 |
| bob2 | jdub: "the best thing verisign ever did..." | 05:10 |
| jdub | bob2: loved that one :) | 05:11 |
| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | Does anyone else find it amusing we're DistroWatch #3 now ? | 05:25 |
| Keybuk | (though I expect that's an artificial release-induced high, but still... <g>) | 05:26 |
| jdub | for this month? | 05:26 |
| Keybuk | yeah | 05:26 |
| jdub | wow | 05:27 |
| jdub | 12th on 3 months | 05:28 |
| jamesh | It's probably because all the developers keep checking the distrowatch page to find the rank | 05:28 |
| jamesh | (given the ranking is just based on page hits) | 05:28 |
| === jdub just looks at the ranking list, not the ubuntu page :) | ||
| Keybuk | jamesh: the rank isn't given on the distrowatch page that gets counted | 05:29 |
| lamont | Mandrake clearly has bots at work.. :-) | 05:29 |
| jdub | X many million french people can't be wrong! | 05:30 |
| lamont | http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041022-04/warty-live--i386-20041022-04.iso | 05:34 |
| daniels | 404 | 05:34 |
| lamont | doh. | 05:34 |
| daniels | ah | 05:34 |
| lamont | http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso | 05:34 |
| daniels | http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso | 05:35 |
| lamont | bad paste | 05:35 |
| daniels | yeah | 05:35 |
| daniels | GET OUT OF ARCH | 05:35 |
| daniels | IT'S NOT TOO LATE | 05:35 |
| lamont | daniels: I pasted that last little bit, picked up a spare - | 05:35 |
| fabbione | morning | 05:35 |
| daniels | fabbione: morning dude | 05:36 |
| daniels | fabbione: see /msg | 05:36 |
| fabbione | ah paste again | 05:36 |
| fabbione | daniels: it's out of my buffer | 05:37 |
| fabbione | mdz: i am using thunderbird | 05:38 |
| fabbione | almost default settings | 05:38 |
| fabbione | let me check them again | 05:44 |
| fabbione | daniels: ^ | 05:44 |
| daniels | you want a repaste? | 05:44 |
| fabbione | no | 05:45 |
| daniels | ok ... | 05:45 |
| fabbione | phoenix is far | 05:46 |
| lamont | phoenix in the summer is nice. | 05:46 |
| daniels | Mandrake: because 174 million French people can't be wrong! | 05:46 |
| daniels | fabbok | 05:46 |
| lamont | s/summer/winter/ | 05:46 |
| fabbione | daniels: go for the palace. it's very close to the main train station | 05:47 |
| daniels | ok | 05:47 |
| daniels | hold one, which one's the palace? | 05:48 |
| fabbione | Palace Hotel | 05:48 |
| fabbione | Palace Hotel | 05:48 |
| fabbione | Historic hotel in Copenhagens city square | 05:48 |
| fabbione | Guests can book a range of treatments with the hotels masseuse, including deep tissue massage, cranio sacral massage, and healing; in-room treatments are ... | 05:48 |
| fabbione | More hotel info | 05:48 |
| bob2 | wow | 05:48 |
| bob2 | can I come to the X sprint, too? | 05:49 |
| fabbione | bob2: did you import X.org and xfrer86 into arch? | 05:49 |
| daniels | palace is unavailable for part of it, plus $$ for some days | 05:50 |
| daniels | like GBP167/night for the weekends :P | 05:50 |
| === lamont finds himself tempted to add a morphix-lamont package to the colorado edition of the livecd, with a gnome config that he can stand, etc, etc. | ||
| bob2 | fabbione: how many days until the sprint? ;) | 05:50 |
| fabbione | daniels: the marmaid hotel is also ok in terms of distance | 05:50 |
| daniels | bob2: starts on the 1st. get moving. | 05:50 |
| fabbione | bob2: one week | 05:50 |
| === bob2 hurrys | ||
| fabbione | daniels: 2604 is your | 05:52 |
| bob2 | copenhagen sounds like fun! | 05:53 |
| daniels | fabbione: reassign it to me | 05:53 |
| fabbione | daniels: we will look at bugs later on | 05:53 |
| fabbione | useless to do it now | 05:53 |
| daniels | ok | 05:54 |
| daniels | fabbione: i'd say xserver-xfree86 tho ... just sanitise it right before you actually write it | 05:55 |
| fabbione | daniels: well that info comes from xresprobe | 05:55 |
| fabbione | i don't write anywhere the size of the monitor | 05:55 |
| fabbione | but yeah | 05:55 |
| fabbione | it's on the border | 05:55 |
| daniels | ok, i'll put it on my xresprobe todo | 05:56 |
| daniels | we can be doubly careful -- put it in two places :) | 05:56 |
| fabbione | heheh | 05:56 |
| jdub | hrm | 05:56 |
| jdub | i have a difficult choice to make | 05:57 |
| jdub | do i use hoary on my laptop, even though i really need it to be a stable machine, and will probably be using it for demonstrations | 05:57 |
| daniels | jdub: seafood platter | 05:57 |
| lamont | jdub: dual boot? | 05:57 |
| daniels | oh, you're not deciding what to have for lunch. | 05:57 |
| jdub | or do i use warty on my laptop, and test hoary on my desktop (which i rarely turn on these days) | 05:57 |
| bob2 | no, steak sandwich with the lot, hold the pineapple | 05:57 |
| daniels | bob2: i find the seafood basket hard to fault | 05:57 |
| lamont | jdub: you know that within 2 months you're gonna want to demo bleeding-edge hoary | 05:58 |
| bob2 | daniels: seafood sticks-- | 05:58 |
| daniels | jdub: i agree, dual-boot also | 05:58 |
| daniels | jdub: MAD PHAT STARTUP | 05:58 |
| jdub | i don't go for dual-boot | 05:58 |
| jdub | i like those lines defined very strongly | 05:58 |
| lamont | jdub: just keep the warty LiveCD around for demos, and run hoary???? | 05:58 |
| bob2 | hoary, because you know lamont is right | 05:58 |
| lamont | jdub: "warty is, like, _so_ 2004." | 05:59 |
| jdub | lamont: hrrrrrm, that's amazingly tempting | 05:59 |
| daniels | bob2: sounds like a commercial | 05:59 |
| daniels | we need lamont fronting up to the cameras like 'hoary is the only tree i trust for *my* family.' | 05:59 |
| bob2 | espcially if we ever get X.ORG PACKAGES. | 05:59 |
| bob2 | hahaha | 05:59 |
| === lamont wonders if grumpy is a prognostication of mdz's mood by then? | ||
| jdub | means i'll be dogfooding the development release all the time, which is half what i really want but a little bit what i don't want | 05:59 |
| lamont | jdub: you can mount /home from the hard drive, you know... | 06:00 |
| bob2 | ho, hoary opened | 06:00 |
| lamont | bob2??? | 06:00 |
| lamont | you mean the apt repositories? | 06:00 |
| bob2 | oh, no, it's just empty Packages files | 06:00 |
| lamont | yeah - about 2 months ago, or so. | 06:01 |
| lamont | elmo had some time one day, you see... | 06:01 |
| lamont | I think it was oxford-conf timeframe | 06:01 |
| bob2 | ah | 06:02 |
| lamont | there are hoary chroots on the buildd's that say 'aug 11', but I don't remember if they were real and happy then, or if my script was just leaving junk around in my optimism | 06:03 |
| bob2 | hehe | 06:03 |
| bob2 | will the hoary buildd's just start up with warty, and install newer stuff as things build-dep on it? | 06:04 |
| lamont | I hate these: APIC error on CPU0: 40(40) | 06:04 |
| lamont | but only because there are soo damn many of them. | 06:04 |
| jdub | bob2: no, there's a few ways we could do it, not sure if we've decided yet | 06:05 |
| jdub | - import all of sid, forgetting our patches | 06:05 |
| jdub | - import sid, except for the stuff we've patched | 06:05 |
| jdub | - wait until hct can merge our patches with sid | 06:06 |
| jdub | etc. | 06:06 |
| jdub | 1 and 2 are "distro team can keep working until hct is ready" solutions | 06:06 |
| bob2 | ah | 06:06 |
| === bob2 heads back to work, coincidentally | ||
| jdub | hhe | 06:08 |
| jdub | heh | 06:08 |
| === SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| SuperLag | The default install of Ubuntu installs a very modular kernel and I get a LOT of module errors when I boot. How can I clean that up? hw_random, pciehp, i82365, yenta are some examples... Gentoo will read /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 for a list of modules to be loaded (assuming you don't have hotplug enabled/installed).... does Ubuntu read a file also? I'm just wanting to clean that up some. | 06:21 |
| fabbione | SuperLag: it makes no difference other than for estetich | 06:21 |
| SuperLag | wartylog: estetich? | 06:21 |
| SuperLag | oops | 06:22 |
| SuperLag | that was for you fabbione | 06:22 |
| fabbione | "to look nicer at boot" | 06:22 |
| SuperLag | are you meaning to say aesthetics? :) | 06:22 |
| fabbione | yeah sorry | 06:22 |
| fabbione | en_IT ;) | 06:22 |
| SuperLag | well, sure | 06:22 |
| fabbione | but this is #ubuntu discussion | 06:22 |
| SuperLag | I know that... but I'd still like to clean it up. | 06:22 |
| chrisa | If you disable hotplug then just use /etc/modules | 06:36 |
| jdub | daniels: what goodies does your x40 package include? | 06:37 |
| mdz | daniels: hell yes we care about PAE | 06:37 |
| mdz | daniels: but not particularly for X | 06:38 |
| jdub | morning mdz | 06:38 |
| mdz | morning | 06:38 |
| lamont | mdz: fired mail at alex wrt apt-get. | 06:38 |
| daniels | mdz: cool | 06:38 |
| mdz | lamont: thanks | 06:38 |
| lamont | if we can get that working, would be nice to include | 06:39 |
| daniels | jdub: just a bunch of /etc/acpi scripts and a dependency on i855-crt | 06:39 |
| mdz | lamont: localisation is the big one | 06:39 |
| lamont | otherwise, I'm asserting that 20041022-04 is final | 06:39 |
| mdz | that's necessary for proper demo goodness | 06:39 |
| lamont | closing 2614 | 06:39 |
| mdz | lamont: it would also be nice if firmware loading could be made to work | 06:39 |
| mdz | but that may or may not be doable | 06:39 |
| mdz | I'd like amu's opinion on it | 06:39 |
| mdz | alex did the work of integrating the drivers, but they're useless without firmware | 06:40 |
| lamont | yeah. the package is there, but doesn't seem to be linked in well. | 06:40 |
| mdz | the files are there | 06:40 |
| mdz | they just aren't loaded correctly | 06:40 |
| mdz | I filed a bug | 06:40 |
| lamont | number? | 06:40 |
| === lamont searches | ||
| lamont | 2633 | 06:41 |
| lamont | hw detection is initially done in the basemod | 06:41 |
| === lamont suspects that mdz is correct | ||
| mdz | lamont: even after everything is up and running, if I unload it and load it again, it fails | 06:42 |
| mdz | lamont: does it use chroot or pivot_root? | 06:42 |
| mdz | I think pivot_root would work, and chroot not | 06:42 |
| lamont | I think it uses chroot, claims to at least | 06:43 |
| lamont | cool. bootpraam 'debugmorphix' gets you a shell early on | 06:44 |
| lamont | jdub: am I expecting new artwork from you? | 06:48 |
| lamont | mdz: btw, Henrik indicated WinFOSS is 'go' | 06:49 |
| fabbione | hey mdz | 06:49 |
| fabbione | mdz: do you which setting in thunderbird can make that CR/LF mess? | 06:50 |
| fabbione | i really can't find any | 06:50 |
| fabbione | and i have set to compose in text mode | 06:50 |
| jdub | lamont: hrm, don't have it already? | 06:50 |
| lamont | mdz: were any of the other livecd bugs filed in the RC category? | 06:50 |
| lamont | jdub: I have what you gave me yesterday | 06:51 |
| jdub | hrm | 06:51 |
| jdub | sent another one a while back | 06:52 |
| lamont | while ==? | 06:52 |
| fabbione | mdz: how is going with amber? | 06:53 |
| mdz | fabbione: she's being difficult | 06:53 |
| aj | don't diss amber! | 06:53 |
| mdz | elmo said his piece was done | 06:53 |
| lamont | my piece done | 06:54 |
| mdz | then everything should be done | 06:54 |
| jdub | lamont: hour or two | 06:54 |
| mdz | and yet there are still no binaries in queue/accepted | 06:54 |
| mdz | I wonder if it needs a nudge | 06:54 |
| lamont | jdub: resend? | 06:54 |
| fabbione | mdz: i didn't see any message going out..is that correct? | 06:54 |
| mdz | fabbione: what kind of message? | 06:55 |
| lamont | mdz: w-b access is currently blocked, I believe | 06:55 |
| fabbione | mdz: a security-announce | 06:55 |
| mdz | fabbione: the packages are not installed yet | 06:55 |
| mdz | they are not even built | 06:55 |
| fabbione | ok | 06:55 |
| mdz | they need to be built, then tested, then an advisory sent out | 06:55 |
| mdz | did you write one already? | 06:55 |
| fabbione | nope | 06:55 |
| fabbione | i tought that it is some kind of templates that needs to be filled | 06:56 |
| fabbione | but do we have the template somewhere? | 06:56 |
| fabbione | aj: definetely not :) | 06:56 |
| mdz | fabbione: the template should have been mailed to you | 07:02 |
| mdz | or perhaps to me | 07:02 |
| mdz | but I don't think I received it | 07:02 |
| fabbione | mdz: i didn't see anything here | 07:02 |
| jdub | lamont: hrm, go without, it was naff anyway | 07:02 |
| jdub | lamont: can you expand the menu across the screen? | 07:03 |
| lamont | jdub: no clue. | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: do you know from which address should have come? | 07:04 |
| lamont | and not really all that awake either. | 07:04 |
| mdz | fabbione: no | 07:04 |
| mdz | katie@somewhere I presume | 07:04 |
| jdub | mdz: suggestion to make /initrd immutable by default. thoughts? :) | 07:04 |
| mdz | jdub: *boggle* | 07:04 |
| jdub | One beer says you deleted /initrd, the empty directory which pivot_root | 07:05 |
| jdub | uses. | 07:05 |
| jdub | People always do this. Distro's should make it immutable by default. | 07:05 |
| mdz | I have never heard of anyone doing that before | 07:05 |
| mdz | people who remove random directories without understanding them deserve what they get :-P | 07:05 |
| === lamont did remove the kernel once, very early in his experience with unix... | ||
| jdub | "what a mess, let's tidy this up..." | 07:06 |
| jdub | ;) | 07:06 |
| lamont | jdub: actually, _I_ was just very desparate for disk space, and the 3MB file was just the trick. | 07:06 |
| lamont | until the next reboot,that is.. | 07:06 |
| fabbione | mdz: i got twice the message from katie about libpng_ being ACCEPTED | 07:07 |
| lamont | mdz: any objections to me just putting livecd status in my activity report? | 07:07 |
| fabbione | mdz: that was the last one | 07:07 |
| === lamont is fading | ||
| mdz | lamont: none | 07:08 |
| lamont | alex and amu looking at firmware blobs? | 07:08 |
| mdz | lamont: I gave amu the bug; he'll look at it when he's awake | 07:10 |
| lamont | ok | 07:10 |
| lamont | jdub: go ahead and toss me the new image and if we do another build, I'll stick it in | 07:11 |
| === lamont falls into bed. Back in about 6 hours or so | ||
| === x4m [~max@131-113.240.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | lamont: this latest live CD image is suddenly much bigger | 07:21 |
| mdz | this is not good | 07:21 |
| mdz | or perhaps I'm just hallucinating | 07:35 |
| daniels | mdz: are we still processing univer syncs? | 07:45 |
| mdz | daniels: not unless they're FTBFS | 07:46 |
| mdz | or baby jesus speaks through Mark and asks for something | 07:46 |
| fabbione | daniels: libXau doesn't create shared libs, right? | 07:46 |
| daniels | mdz: ok, so saying 'can we get latest scummvm in, and I'll deal with it if need be' is unlikely to gain much traction? ;) | 07:47 |
| daniels | fabbione: in the monolithic tree, no. in the modular tree, yes. | 07:48 |
| fabbione | ok | 07:48 |
| fabbione | i guess that's just s imple modification to the Imake | 07:48 |
| fabbione | simple even | 07:48 |
| daniels | yeah | 07:49 |
| fabbione | #define DoSharedLib SharedLibXau | 07:49 |
| fabbione | it is defined | 07:49 |
| mdz | daniels: correct | 07:49 |
| fabbione | daniels: that was easy :-)) | 07:57 |
| fabbione | daniels: the templates seems to work pretty fine | 07:59 |
| fabbione | daniels: now it's only question of finding the properr build order | 07:59 |
| daniels | cool | 08:00 |
| fabbione | my actual process is to pick a project | 08:00 |
| fabbione | create the structure from the template | 08:00 |
| fabbione | build | 08:00 |
| fabbione | define dependency | 08:00 |
| fabbione | import patches | 08:01 |
| fabbione | rebuils | 08:01 |
| fabbione | complete the usual stuff (like lintian, and other checks) | 08:01 |
| fabbione | done | 08:01 |
| fabbione | pretty fast | 08:01 |
| fabbione | if one package is stalled by another it gives immediatly the next package name | 08:01 |
| jdub | 258 in #u... yeesh | 08:33 |
| bob2 | the #u GMAIL stats are even weirder than the list ones ;) | 08:34 |
| jdub | haha | 08:34 |
| jdub | ubuntu-announce:1378 | 08:34 |
| jdub | ubuntu-devel:334 | 08:34 |
| jdub | ubuntu-users:1020 | 08:34 |
| bob2 | #ubuntu : 95% annoying | 08:34 |
| mdz | jdub: those are totals, or gmail? | 08:38 |
| jdub | totals | 08:39 |
| jdub | hrm, can we kill all the other kernel packages? | 08:41 |
| mdz | not trivially | 08:41 |
| mdz | universe is an incestuous mess; stuff build-depends on those things | 08:41 |
| jdub | ouch | 08:41 |
| mdz | we just need to train people to read the FAQ | 08:41 |
| mdz | and train them that the name of the kernel is 'linux' | 08:42 |
| === hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | daniels: if hoary opened tomorrow, how long would xorg be? :) | 08:55 |
| daniels | jdub: into the tree? probably mid-to-late nov | 08:56 |
| jdub | ta | 08:56 |
| daniels | this is a completely hypothetical question, I take it | 08:57 |
| jdub | no | 08:57 |
| jdub | but if hoary didn't open tomorrow, i gather it would be around the same time | 08:57 |
| jdub | how much earlier could it be? | 08:57 |
| daniels | the earliest we could do it would be the second week, I'd imagine | 08:58 |
| daniels | this is i386/powerpc/amd64 | 08:58 |
| jdub | so you wouldn't want to do it pre-X-summit? | 08:59 |
| daniels | not until I've got together with Fabio and we've beaten all the bugs out of the migration path, not really | 08:59 |
| jdub | ahr, yeah, that's the bigger issue | 09:00 |
| daniels | i don't really want #ubuntu full of 'hi i ran smart upgrade and um my x isbroken' ;) | 09:01 |
| jdub | heh | 09:01 |
| bob2 | "hi i run smart upgrade and enabled transparency and now my x is slow" | 09:04 |
| daniels | oh my god. don't even joke about that. | 09:05 |
| fabbione | jdub: we will get the packages into the archive when at least the upgrade path is known to work | 09:08 |
| fabbione | jdub: in the meanwhile we will use some temporary location | 09:08 |
| fabbione | so that expert users can test them | 09:08 |
| fabbione | but get ready for a big fight with bugs and stuff | 09:08 |
| fabbione | that is going to be frustrating | 09:08 |
| fabbione | mainly because you install X.org removing Xfree86 completely | 09:09 |
| fabbione | that also mean that 99.9999% of the cases upgrades withing X will be highly discouraged | 09:09 |
| fabbione | and there is really NOTHING we can do about it | 09:09 |
| bob2 | "withing" = "while running"? | 09:10 |
| === srbaker [~srbaker@blk-224-143-227.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | heya everyone | 09:13 |
| srbaker | i ordered a rather significant number of cds in the shipit system. doesn't someone want me to justify 35 cds? (25 x86, 5 ppc, 5 amd64?) or are there enough to go around? | 09:14 |
| jdub | srbaker: justification only required for large orders ;) | 09:19 |
| srbaker | jdub, that's not a large order? | 09:21 |
| srbaker | because i was trying to keep my numbers low. :P | 09:21 |
| srbaker | heh. actually, that was exactly what i needed, i think. | 09:22 |
| jdub | :-) | 09:22 |
| srbaker | i'm handing them out to folks in my LUG, and whatever's left over, i'll be handing out at the Dal CS building. | 09:22 |
| jdub | srbaker: put it this way... we got an order from FOSDEM. | 09:22 |
| srbaker | Oh. | 09:22 |
| srbaker | understood | 09:22 |
| jdub | if a big order seems worthwhile, we'll fill it | 09:23 |
| srbaker | where can i expect the dpkg work to be taking place? i'm *very* interested in working on that. | 09:23 |
| jdub | srbaker: in Keybuk's brain | 09:23 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | oh. i'm interested in working on it. especially triggers. | 09:23 |
| jdub | yeah, triggers sound neat-o | 09:23 |
| srbaker | i had a problem with some elisp packages. python-mode, actually. | 09:24 |
| jdub | Keybuk: pingitypong | 09:24 |
| Keybuk | heh, good timing :) | 09:24 |
| srbaker | installed emacs, then python-mode, and then xemacs. xemacs didn't byte compile python-mode, because it was done in python-mode's postinst | 09:24 |
| srbaker | i think. i could be confusing packages here. | 09:24 |
| srbaker | and i remember thinking at the time "hey, it'd be nice to be able to notify the system that this package was just installed" | 09:24 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, ahh, well, please include me in your dpkg work. i'm *very* interested. | 09:25 |
| srbaker | i was included in the ML when wiggy was talking with some folks for "dpkgv2" but it faded into nonexistence | 09:25 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, also, i thought it might be worthwhile to investigate xdelta for source packages. | 09:26 |
| Keybuk | xdelta is ok for binaries, never really got happy with it for patches | 09:26 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, but a .src.deb would be a binary. | 09:27 |
| Keybuk | ah, I see what you mean ... upload a changes and xdelta rather than the .src.deb ? | 09:27 |
| srbaker | right. | 09:27 |
| Keybuk | there's still the mirror-push problem though | 09:27 |
| srbaker | push the xdelta | 09:27 |
| jdub | rdiff :) | 09:27 |
| srbaker | rdiff? | 09:27 |
| === bob2 likes being able to poke at .diff.gz's in the pool from his browser | ||
| jdub | rsync diff | 09:28 |
| Keybuk | then to get a source package you have to download a src.deb and a set of xdeltas ? | 09:28 |
| srbaker | bob2, same. but a browser plugin can fix that :P | 09:28 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, sure, why not? | 09:28 |
| bob2 | hahahaha | 09:28 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, dpkg-source -x can apply all .xdelta files. | 09:28 |
| srbaker | jdub, doesn't rsync's diff use xdelta? | 09:29 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i'm not entirely sure it'd be a working idea. i'm just throwing out ideas. | 09:29 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i definitely want to be included in the discussion, tho, as i said. | 09:29 |
| jdub | nah | 09:29 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i'm capable and happy to write code. i'm hesitant to just go and write code without discussing it first on something liek dpkg, though. | 09:29 |
| Keybuk | the first hurdle isn't writing code, it's understanding the existing code and getting to a point where it can be refactored | 09:30 |
| jdub | you need the netbeans refactoring system! | 09:30 |
| jdub | and javur! | 09:30 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i was very familiar with the dpkg code at one point in my life. it won't take long to get it back. | 09:30 |
| Keybuk | iwj-c melts people's brains :) | 09:31 |
| bob2 | Keybuk: is your python re-write public yet? | 09:31 |
| === bob2 runs | ||
| srbaker | Keybuk, i didn't find iwj's code to be that bad. i actually found benc's hacking of it to be a little worse. | 09:31 |
| jdub | you could pyrex/python it | 09:31 |
| srbaker | oh, who's in charge of hooking up planet debian syndicators? | 09:31 |
| Keybuk | yeah, dpkg really suffers from being a good piece of software that's been hacked on, rather than improved | 09:32 |
| bob2 | srbaker: you edit the cvs module yourself | 09:32 |
| srbaker | oh. | 09:32 |
| srbaker | bob2, is there a doc? | 09:32 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: /org/planet.debian.org/README on gluck | 09:33 |
| srbaker | thanks | 09:33 |
| srbaker | i've been *way* too debian-idle for too long. | 09:33 |
| srbaker | i'm about to do a debut release, too (Debian Upload Tool) | 09:33 |
| srbaker | since shorty's being a cock | 09:33 |
| srbaker | and the dput code didn't like my hacking too well | 09:34 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: how's your arch voodoo? | 09:35 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i read the docs and have a basic understanding. | 09:35 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i use monotone | 09:36 |
| srbaker | but i'm happy to work with arch, it does everything i need | 09:36 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, why do you ask? what have you got? | 09:38 |
| Keybuk | I've been maintaining dpkg in arch for quite a while now, the cvs.d.o repository just gets sync'd whenever I do a dump or release at the moment | 09:39 |
| srbaker | oh | 09:39 |
| srbaker | cool | 09:39 |
| Keybuk | scott@netsplit.com--2004/dpkg--devo--1.10 is the current released code; the archive's at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/arch/personal/ | 09:40 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, cool. i'll grab it | 09:40 |
| srbaker | installing ubuntu on my lappy now that i figured out what was wrong with it before | 09:46 |
| srbaker | acpi=force, by the way | 09:46 |
| srbaker | for those of you unfortunate enough to have toshiba lappies | 09:47 |
| thom | tseng: oh, ber | 09:48 |
| Keybuk | morning thombot | 09:49 |
| thom | marnin' | 09:50 |
| fabbione | hey thom | 09:52 |
| Keybuk | thom: apache2 trips a pyarch bug ... be proud :p | 09:52 |
| thom | Keybuk: ROCK! | 09:53 |
| srbaker | pyarch? | 09:53 |
| srbaker | wtf is that? | 09:53 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: python API to arch | 09:53 |
| srbaker | nice | 09:53 |
| srbaker | the thing that pissed me off about arch was the weird directories it dumped everywhere, and it's insistence on weird directory naming | 09:54 |
| srbaker | it's a little imposing | 09:54 |
| Keybuk | heh, yeah, that pisses us off too :p | 09:54 |
| srbaker | oh, good. | 09:54 |
| srbaker | monotone just integrates with what i have :) | 09:55 |
| srbaker | non imposing | 09:55 |
| srbaker | :) | 09:55 |
| Keybuk | but nothing comes close to arch wrt merging and sharing branches | 09:55 |
| === azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | Keybuk, ahh. monotone uses xdelta, too | 09:56 |
| srbaker | that's actually where i learned about it | 09:57 |
| Keybuk | arch is oddly oxymoronic ... it has an awesome fundamental simplicity with an incredibly complicated and obtuse UI on top | 09:58 |
| === WW [~wweckesse@67-138-158-137.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | does someone want to make a "broken toshiba lappy use acpi=force" note? is there a forum or something that i should dump that in? | 09:58 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, heh. same with monotone | 09:58 |
| srbaker | i'm currently writing a web interface to monotone. it sucks currently, but it's coming along. | 09:59 |
| srbaker | that's my other project, in addition to debut. | 09:59 |
| srbaker | i keep hitting dput bugs, and short's a prick, so i'm doing the right thing | 09:59 |
| bob2 | Keybuk: you're full of arch gripes! | 10:07 |
| Keybuk | bob2: heh, it was a bad day I wrote that <g> | 10:08 |
| Keybuk | I'd hit all of them in about an hour | 10:08 |
| bob2 | Keybuk: that said, I want a copy of your book | 10:08 |
| === shlomil [~shlomi@212.199.219.24.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | what book? | 10:09 |
| srbaker | and what writing? | 10:09 |
| srbaker | i feel out of the loop | 10:09 |
| bob2 | I'm just troll Keybuk because I'm bored.\ | 10:09 |
| Keybuk | heh, "Arch Is Easy, and other Lies The Developers May Have Told You" | 10:09 |
| Keybuk | bob2: this explains your lack of progress with hct :p | 10:10 |
| bob2 | ah, erm, eh :-) | 10:14 |
| === bob2 returns to work | ||
| === Keybuk wins \o/ | ||
| Keybuk | You attack the troll--more-- | 10:16 |
| Keybuk | The troll dies | 10:16 |
| === mvo_ [~egon@suprimo-185.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Hi mvo_ | 10:17 |
| mvo_ | hi pitti | 10:17 |
| srbaker | hct? | 10:17 |
| daniels | Keybuk: of course there's no progress, it's hypothetical | 10:18 |
| srbaker | oh, where do i get the dvdcss library for ubuntu? | 10:20 |
| daniels | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto | 10:21 |
| daniels | or maybe RestrictedFormats | 10:21 |
| daniels | but it's on there, quite plainly | 10:21 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | bah, I wish arch could do multiple inheritence | 10:24 |
| bob2 | of? | 10:24 |
| Keybuk | tags which are continuations of two different branches <g> | 10:25 |
| pitti | Does anybody know when the Hoary feature goals meeting will be? | 10:25 |
| bob2 | Keybuk: hah | 10:25 |
| thom | monday afternoon was the last i heard | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | to shut star-merge up and it's "trees are not related" | 10:25 |
| bob2 | Keybuk: you can merge the trees to one, but the branch can only inhereit from one of them | 10:25 |
| bob2 | ah, right | 10:25 |
| pitti | thom: ah, I heard sth about today (from previous meeting). Thanks | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | base-0, continuation of X; patch-1, sync-tree of Y | 10:26 |
| Keybuk | is just sucky | 10:26 |
| daniels | thom: monday afternoon utc? | 10:26 |
| Kamion | huh, I'd thought the Hoary meeting was today too | 10:27 |
| Kamion | obviously a shared hallucination or something | 10:27 |
| pitti | Kamion: no, that was proposed on Tuesday's meeting | 10:27 |
| pitti | but I did not ready any announcement on the lists | 10:27 |
| pitti | BTW, #u-meeting still claims that "today" is a TB meeting | 10:28 |
| pitti | I'm going to clear this | 10:28 |
| === WW [~wweckesse@67-138-158-137.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| Kamion | mdz: can I move this proactivesecurity stuff into the TB agenda, or at the very least off the CC agenda? | 10:32 |
| srbaker | well, i think 5:30a is about a good time for bed | 10:32 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-15-209.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Morning seb128 | 10:46 |
| seb128 | hello pitti | 10:47 |
| elmo_ | Kamion: am I okay to clear out old instances of d-i and/or the daily images? | 10:47 |
| thom | Kamion: hm, i thought that we were "off" until monday | 10:48 |
| srbaker | Hey! | 10:51 |
| srbaker | There's no Ubuntu porn on my login screen. | 10:51 |
| srbaker | the screen shot on the website promised me ubuntu porn | 10:51 |
| pitti | thom: although we are "off", could you take a look at https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/ | 10:55 |
| pitti | thom: it contains security updates for xpdf and cupsys | 10:55 |
| pitti | thom: the patches are taken from the Debian packages, but mdz wants a review nevertheless | 10:55 |
| pitti | anybody else would be fine as well, of course :-) | 10:55 |
| pitti | interdiffs are available, too | 10:56 |
| srbaker | okay, huge problem | 10:57 |
| srbaker | i just installed warty. logged in via gdm | 10:57 |
| srbaker | and it sits there. | 10:57 |
| srbaker | i don't get the startup splash screen | 10:58 |
| Kamion | elmo_: daily images yes | 10:59 |
| srbaker | is this a known problem i'm having? | 11:00 |
| Kamion | elmo_: and yes, might as well clear out 20040801ubuntu{13,18,19} | 11:00 |
| Kamion | thom: I could easily be on crack :) | 11:00 |
| shlomil | srbaker: try to choose session | 11:01 |
| srbaker | shlomil, i chose "gnome" and same thing | 11:02 |
| srbaker | i'll try failsafe gnome | 11:02 |
| shlomil | check your disk quota | 11:03 |
| bob2 | pitti: I'm almost certain suspend isn't meant to work on ibook g4s | 11:03 |
| thom | Kamion: | 11:03 |
| thom | 17:47 < Kamion> mdz: Thursday for sleep, Friday for meetings? :) | 11:03 |
| thom | 17:47 < Keybuk> elmo: rookery doesn't have much on it though (like tla :p) | 11:03 |
| thom | 17:47 < mdz> Kamion: thursday-sunday sleep, monday meeting? | 11:03 |
| pitti | bob2: I had tried this in Sid, there it worked, somehow | 11:03 |
| pitti | bob2: but I'm not so sure about it | 11:04 |
| bob2 | pitti: hm, not just turning the backlight off? | 11:04 |
| pitti | bob2: I'm not sure | 11:04 |
| bob2 | pitti: closing the lid on mine just turns that off and eventually hard-shuts-down if I don't open it again | 11:04 |
| pitti | bob2: it took a while until it woke up again | 11:04 |
| pitti | bob2: unlike Ubuntu, which immediately wakes up again | 11:04 |
| bob2 | pitti: hm | 11:05 |
| pitti | bob2: but there was another problem, if I left it to sleep long enough, it completely went down | 11:05 |
| pitti | anyway, breakfast | 11:05 |
| pitti | brb | 11:05 |
| srbaker | shlomil, with failsafe, i get the splash screen, but no icons or anything | 11:05 |
| srbaker | it seems to hang there | 11:05 |
| srbaker | shlomil, and i don't have quotas configured | 11:05 |
| shlomil | no icons on desktop ? | 11:06 |
| shlomil | ... thats normal in Ubuntu .. ;) | 11:06 |
| bob2 | pitti: yeah, same here | 11:06 |
| bob2 | pitti: and not a polite shutdown, more like a powercut | 11:07 |
| bob2 | pitti: btw, do you have gtkpbbuttons working in warty? | 11:08 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091b26.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| srbaker | shlomil, uh, what? | 11:09 |
| srbaker | shlomil, gnome-session is hanging | 11:10 |
| shlomil | i don't know man | 11:12 |
| shlomil | srbaker: when i asked about quotas, i ment also free space | 11:14 |
| shlomil | srbaker: sometimes this happens when there's no space left on the device | 11:14 |
| srbaker | no. | 11:15 |
| srbaker | there's lots of space | 11:15 |
| srbaker | so, not only do i not get my porn, it's broken | 11:15 |
| srbaker | how nice. | 11:15 |
| shlomil | srbaker: try to login in text mode , shutdown gdm and run startx | 11:17 |
| srbaker | k | 11:17 |
| pitti | bob2: I tried gtkpbbuttons, it worked | 11:17 |
| srbaker | should i empty my homedir of gnome files first? | 11:17 |
| pitti | bob2: but I don't really use them | 11:17 |
| pitti | srbaker: you can try | 11:18 |
| srbaker | i already did tha ,and added "gnome-session" to ~/.xsession | 11:18 |
| srbaker | same thing | 11:18 |
| pitti | srbaker: but before you can just try to login as another user | 11:18 |
| shlomil | srbaker: you can create a new user maybe | 11:18 |
| srbaker | under "failsafe" gnome, i got the splash screen, but it hung there | 11:18 |
| srbaker | gah. | 11:21 |
| srbaker | running startx as a new user starts up | 11:21 |
| srbaker | but it's *S L O W* | 11:21 |
| srbaker | my lappy may still be fucked up | 11:21 |
| srbaker | anyways, bed time | 11:21 |
| srbaker | it's 6am | 11:21 |
| shlomil | heh | 11:21 |
| shlomil | might be not enough memory .... (?) | 11:22 |
| shlomil | gnight | 11:22 |
| === ph_ [~ph@pD9E6BD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| amu | moinD | 12:11 |
| === elmo_ [~james@82.211.81.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | lamont: do you want a new version of the live CD dropped onto releases.ubuntu.com? | 12:20 |
| Kamion | hm, not entirely convinced by InstallFromKnoppixHowto ... | 12:21 |
| === Kamion downloads Knoppix in order to test out better methods | ||
| pitti | elmo_: Hi! Any news regarding warty-security? | 12:27 |
| Kamion | 03:00 < joeyh> less than 8 hours from UPS to a fully automated debian install, and that included the time to write the interface to the remote management interface | 12:28 |
| Kamion | THAT'S where I want to be with ia64 | 12:28 |
| elmo_ | pitti: you can make uploads if you like - they'll be in limbo till mdz gets up and we can finish testing the actual release mechanism | 12:28 |
| thom | elmo_: any sign of the itanic^Hums? | 12:29 |
| elmo_ | (they'll get accepted and built tho, so it's probably worthwhile) | 12:29 |
| elmo_ | thom: dude, why do you bother logging on to jabber, if you don't read msgs there? :P | 12:29 |
| elmo_ | (i.e. see jabber) | 12:29 |
| thom | heh | 12:30 |
| thom | i guess i need to make gaim make alarming noises | 12:30 |
| elmo_ | have it pop up in your face - then you too can type your passphrase/word at random jabber-buddies | 12:30 |
| pitti | elmo_: okay, then I'll upload the stuff to get it built and send mdz the interdiffs for approval | 12:30 |
| elmo_ | free for a limited time offer | 12:30 |
| pitti | elmo_: thanks | 12:30 |
| elmo_ | pitti: hmm, don't upload unapproved stuff | 12:31 |
| daniels | elmo_: 'your account disabled -- only $1.95 with any large value meal' | 12:31 |
| elmo_ | pitti: like a normal upload, once it's uploaded, it's final | 12:31 |
| pitti | elmo_: okay; I asked mdz yesterday to approve, but maybe he has some more time today | 12:31 |
| thom | free rm -f with every upload! | 12:32 |
| amu | Kamion: morphix installer is nice. But needs some work. Knoppix installer inst such flexible, _and_ unmaintained | 12:32 |
| pitti | elmo_: then I'll send him a link to the packages and he can upload himself | 12:32 |
| Kamion | amu: don't really care, I'm only using it to install Ubuntu *from* | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | ARGH. | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | An NTL man is outside. | 12:33 |
| Kamion | amu: p.s. read the doc, it's not actually the Knoppix-install-to-hard-disk thing | 12:33 |
| amu | Kamion: the live ? | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | He's on the phone to NTL. | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | He's on hold. | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | On a hands-free kit. | 12:33 |
| Kamion | amu: read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallFromKnoppixHowto :-) | 12:33 |
| mjg59 | I'm being forced to listen to NTL hold music without the joy of knowing that I'll get to scream at NTL afterwards. | 12:34 |
| thom | mjg59: *giggle* | 12:34 |
| Kamion | I suppose I should log into jabber like once a lifetime or so | 12:34 |
| amu | Kamion: Ah got it. | 12:35 |
| === silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Hi silbs! | 12:42 |
| === rburton [~ross@84.12.22.159] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| rburton | congrats on warty by the way | 12:44 |
| rburton | didn't get to say it yesterday | 12:45 |
| seb128 | hey rburton, thanks :) | 12:45 |
| thom | hey ross | 12:45 |
| rburton | hey hey | 12:45 |
| daniels | rburton: hey dude | 12:49 |
| rburton | hi daniels | 12:50 |
| daniels | wie gehts? | 12:50 |
| === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-10-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| amu | Kamion: hehe, nice idea, maybe debtakeover is also a option ;) | 01:18 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Mitario | lo everyone! | 01:22 |
| === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | heh, one of the negotiators on the negotiator looks like taggart | 01:30 |
| pitti | sjoerd: hum, you install the gthumb wrapper into /usr/bin; we do it to /usr/share/g-v-m/ | 01:34 |
| pitti | sjoerd: any way I could convince you to do the same? :-) | 01:35 |
| pitti | sjoerd: in the long run we should get rid of this hack anyway, but... | 01:35 |
| sjoerd | pitti: if you have a good rationale why to do it in /usr/share :) | 01:38 |
| pitti | sjoerd: it's a temporary hack and should not clutter up /usr/bin | 01:39 |
| pitti | sjoerd: when people start to write scripts which rely on this hack, it's difficult to get rid of it | 01:39 |
| sjoerd | pitti: with the last reason you've got a point | 01:40 |
| === sjoerd wonders if there is some kind of policy about helper scripts | ||
| pitti | sjoerd: I plan to rewrite this part anyway | 01:41 |
| pitti | sjoerd: but right now I'm synchronizing to your version, I want to clean up first | 01:41 |
| sjoerd | pitti: rewrite as in let g-v-m have seperated cases ? | 01:41 |
| sjoerd | sounds sane | 01:41 |
| pitti | sjoerd: the funny thing is that g-v-m already has separate cases | 01:41 |
| pitti | sjoerd: these are merged at some point to call the wrapper script | 01:42 |
| pitti | sjoerd: which has to sort them apart again | 01:42 |
| pitti | sjoerd: could you help me with the UI part? | 01:42 |
| sjoerd | yeah it's just one property | 01:42 |
| pitti | sjoerd: we should have two properties | 01:42 |
| pitti | sjoerd: and probably they should both be configurable in the prefs dialog | 01:42 |
| pitti | sjoerd: you already hacked at this, can you do this again? | 01:43 |
| sjoerd | pitti: sure | 01:43 |
| sjoerd | no right now though :), probably somewhere during the weekend | 01:44 |
| === SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| rburton | gar | 02:15 |
| rburton | does anyone have a decent svg of the ubuntu logo without a weird bounding box? | 02:15 |
| rburton | right, i've done one | 02:17 |
| rburton | can i edit attachments in the wiki? | 02:17 |
| Kamion | ai | 02:21 |
| Kamion | can people please be sure not to misspell "Ubuntu" when writing documentation? | 02:21 |
| lamont | Kamion: my normal issue is spelling it ubunut | 02:22 |
| lamont | mdz: -rw-r--r-- 1 lamont buildd 673589248 Oct 20 07:50 20041020-07/warty-live-i386-20041020-07.iso | 02:24 |
| lamont | -rw-r--r-- 1 lamont buildd 674152448 Oct 22 04:24 20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso | 02:24 |
| lamont | 600KB bigger is not "a lot bigger" | 02:24 |
| mjg59 | Why the christ are people suggesting GRs about changing release policy? | 02:25 |
| lamont | mjg59: because we can force those techincal bastards to release _NOW_ that way, whether it's ready or not, dammit. | 02:27 |
| lamont | :-( | 02:27 |
| mjg59 | lamont: Actually, I think they want to propose freezing unstable | 02:28 |
| === x4m [~max@88-87.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | I'm increasingly of the opinion that there's about 10-15 people that should be culled from Debian | 02:28 |
| mjg59 | Some day I'll get around to actually writing this list down | 02:28 |
| lamont | mjg59: that violates the 6-shooter principle, though | 02:29 |
| mjg59 | lamont: We line them all up first | 02:29 |
| lamont | but it's been violated before by other organizations | 02:29 |
| rburton | mjg59, our office admin guy would probably make a good hired goon | 02:29 |
| lamont | amu: about? | 02:30 |
| Keybuk | how odd ... I've not received any mails from debian-vote since August 20th | 02:30 |
| Keybuk | in fact, it's more likely since July 27th | 02:31 |
| Kamion | mjg59: I have a ~/debian/morons file | 02:31 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Hurrah! | 02:31 |
| Kamion | although it's too short currently | 02:31 |
| daniels | heh! | 02:32 |
| elmo_ | kamion: clearly that should be gluck:public_html/morons.txt file ;-) | 02:32 |
| mjg59 | We should all pool our morons databases and then figure out the best way to neutralise these people | 02:32 |
| Kamion | elmo_: arguably :) | 02:32 |
| lamont | Kamion: I think I want to wait and hear from amu and get an ACK from mdz, but 20041022-04 looks to be rc2 | 02:32 |
| Kamion | mjg59: Mr. "I Think It's Sensible To Set Release Policy By GR" is inexplicably not among them; let me rectify this | 02:33 |
| |trey| | Kamion: I better not be in there ;P | 02:33 |
| Kamion | |trey|: I don't even know your name | 02:33 |
| daniels | |trey|: you're not a debian developer, either. | 02:33 |
| |trey| | Kamion: k good ;) | 02:33 |
| |trey| | daniels: ^ | 02:33 |
| lamont | Kamion: I bet his name is 'trey'. :-) | 02:34 |
| |trey| | I want to learn, but haven't the time for programming... brains fed too much infomation tend to explode :( | 02:34 |
| lamont | mjg59: "shiny bright" | 02:35 |
| lamont | well, that only gets some of them | 02:35 |
| Mitario | seb128, here? | 02:35 |
| hornbeck | is the only mono packs in universe now, are they out of tsengs repository? | 02:42 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Hi carlos, howdy | 02:55 |
| carlos | pitti: hi! | 02:57 |
| amu | lamont: ? | 02:58 |
| amu | lamont: 22-04 still dl'ing | 03:00 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Mitario | rburton, hiya | 03:07 |
| rburton | hey Mitario | 03:08 |
| Mitario | have some time? :) | 03:08 |
| rburton | give me two | 03:08 |
| rburton | (minutes) | 03:08 |
| Mitario | heh, ok :) | 03:08 |
| === T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| T-Bone | hi | 03:13 |
| Mitario | hi tbone | 03:13 |
| rburton | Mitario, right, i've got coffee and music. let's talk | 03:15 |
| Mitario | heh, ok | 03:15 |
| Mitario | about the update stuff, dunno if you've read my proposal? | 03:16 |
| rburton | yeah, i saw it | 03:16 |
| rburton | its ruby at the moment, right? | 03:16 |
| Mitario | yes, but we want to change that | 03:16 |
| Mitario | to either c++, with libapt, or python if python-apt evolves | 03:17 |
| rburton | http://www.burtonini.com/computing/screenshots/app-install.png is a work-in-progress of my app-install program | 03:17 |
| Mitario | and we wanted some of your opinions on what language and such | 03:17 |
| Mitario | ok, wow, that looks cool | 03:17 |
| rburton | i'm using python and am currently hacking code to call synaptic --set-selections | 03:17 |
| rburton | but the goal is to extend python-apt | 03:17 |
| rburton | (i'll put this is cvs somewhere at some point) | 03:18 |
| Mitario | hm, then it would come in handy if the update list app is also written in python | 03:18 |
| rburton | i thought extending python-apt would be best as if i used c++ i'd have to write exactly the same code | 03:18 |
| rburton | so i may as well go the mile and write it as python bindings | 03:18 |
| rburton | all i need is someone who knows python bindings and libapt-pkg to do the work for me ;) | 03:19 |
| Mitario | heh :) | 03:20 |
| === Mitario doesn't know python at all | ||
| Mitario | so i'll have to learn that first, but shouldn't be hard | 03:20 |
| rburton | if you know ruby, not at all | 03:20 |
| Mitario | oh, and nother little thingy: what is your idea on calling everything 'updates' or 'upgrades'? | 03:21 |
| rburton | hm | 03:21 |
| rburton | i see your app as updates | 03:21 |
| rburton | the main use will be security updates | 03:21 |
| rburton | when a new release comes out, its probably best to use synaptic anyway | 03:22 |
| Mitario | guess to yes | 03:22 |
| Mitario | hmm, i don't know about that, because we don't have any distinction between security updates and for example new upstream releases | 03:22 |
| Mitario | although I could parse the version string of the package | 03:22 |
| rburton | true. when a new release comes out it your app will offer them all | 03:22 |
| Mitario | yep | 03:23 |
| rburton | but the dist-upgrade logic is different to the upgrade logic | 03:23 |
| Mitario | how michael and I currently thought if it that the update list app just calls synaptic --set-selections | 03:23 |
| Mitario | and handles all dependencies and such | 03:23 |
| rburton | should do the job | 03:24 |
| mvo_ | we could use the origin or the package to find out if it's a security update | 03:24 |
| Mitario | good idea | 03:24 |
| rburton | synaptic in svn has an option now to hide the main window, i poked michael about that earlier | 03:24 |
| mvo_ | or the label | 03:24 |
| mvo_ | Keybuk is no longer around? | 03:25 |
| Mitario | so, current procedure is update notification -> list updates -> call synaptic with --set-selections | 03:26 |
| Mitario | where list updates could make a distinction between security updates or just regular updates | 03:26 |
| mvo_ | and depending on the preferences of the user: "--non-interactive --hide-main-window" | 03:27 |
| rburton | show top of the list, a cute emblem, etc | 03:27 |
| pitti | bob2: okay, I updated g-v-m and built the whole lot for powerpc | 03:27 |
| Mitario | rburton, just like your add/remove app would be nice | 03:27 |
| pitti | bob2: have fun ;-) | 03:27 |
| pitti | Hi mvo_ | 03:27 |
| Mitario | mvo_, yes | 03:27 |
| mvo_ | hi pitti ! | 03:28 |
| Mitario | although the --upgrade-mode of synaptic could also be somewhat nicer | 03:28 |
| pitti | mvo_: still with your old nick? | 03:28 |
| rburton | hm, the python docs lie | 03:28 |
| rburton | ah, no they don't | 03:29 |
| mvo_ | pitti: yes. no idea for a better one yet. maybe I sould start a poll ;) vomi is possible but it sounds a bit like vomit I think ... | 03:29 |
| Mitario | mvo_, can't we build in some kind of mode that all the windows will be replaced by something like http://geeklog.eyesopened.nl/ubdates/updatedialog.png? | 03:29 |
| Mitario | so, the user doesn't know about refreshing the package list, setting the selection, downloading the stuff and etc. | 03:29 |
| Mitario | but just knows 'oh, my computer is updating the packages' | 03:29 |
| rburton | i would like an abridged progress dialog | 03:29 |
| pitti | mvo_: my proposal was voimi :-) | 03:30 |
| rburton | but as mvo_ said to me earlier, once apt starts you can't get progress | 03:30 |
| Mitario | hmm, bummer | 03:30 |
| mvo_ | dpkg is the problem actually :) | 03:30 |
| mvo_ | dpkg --status-fd may help, keybuk pointed me to it | 03:30 |
| rburton | rock | 03:30 |
| mvo_ | but we still need to solve conf-file handling | 03:30 |
| rburton | urgh, yeah | 03:31 |
| mvo_ | and apparently it does not give progress information about the unpacking :/ | 03:31 |
| Mitario | what about the debgconf gtk frontend thingy? | 03:31 |
| rburton | enforce "N" and tell the user? | 03:31 |
| mvo_ | so it's not quite there yet, but it's a start :) | 03:31 |
| Mitario | rburton, or only show up a dialog if debconf asks for it | 03:31 |
| rburton | yeah | 03:31 |
| Mitario | hmm, will there be much debconf question if the package has a small package/security update? | 03:32 |
| Kamion | unlikely just for security updates | 03:32 |
| Kamion | although it's possible | 03:32 |
| Mitario | hmm, yea | 03:32 |
| bob2 | pitti: yay, thanks a lot :-) | 03:32 |
| rburton | it is quite likely there could be conffiles changes | 03:33 |
| elmo_ | Kamion: can you imagine a powerpc machine with i8042? | 03:34 |
| Mitario | ok, and what about configuration? | 03:34 |
| Kamion | elmo_: yes | 03:34 |
| elmo_ | kamion: which ones? | 03:34 |
| Kamion | elmo_: CHRPish boxes have them | 03:34 |
| elmo_ | do CHRP do power4? | 03:34 |
| Kamion | elmo_: basically anything IBM | 03:34 |
| Mitario | i think we just need some kind of dialog to pop up when gconf asks a question | 03:34 |
| Kamion | elmo_: yes | 03:34 |
| elmo_ | meh, ok | 03:34 |
| Mitario | whether that's a gtk frontend, or a terminal widget, doesn't matter much IMO | 03:34 |
| Kamion | newish RS/6000 boxen | 03:35 |
| mvo_ | yes, I think we need to solve the conffile problem if we want to hide the dpkg output | 03:35 |
| Mitario | euhm, s/gconf/debconf | 03:35 |
| elmo_ | hmm, but hangon, CHRP needs something other htan PPC_MULTIPLATFORM, right? | 03:35 |
| Kamion | mvo_: or do an expect-like trick | 03:35 |
| Kamion | elmo_: don't think so? | 03:35 |
| Kamion | <cjwatson@riva ~/src/ubuntu/linux-source-2.6.8.1/linux-source-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1/ar | 03:36 |
| Kamion | ch/ppc/configs>$ grep PPC_MULTIPLATFORM ibmchrp_defconfig | 03:36 |
| Kamion | CONFIG_PPC_MULTIPLATFORM=y | 03:36 |
| mvo_ | Kamion: probably. if status-fd tells about the problem, we could do something like this | 03:36 |
| elmo_ | gar, sux2be an Xserve then | 03:36 |
| Kamion | elmo_: and we have CONFIG_PPC_CHRP=y in our kernels | 03:36 |
| mvo_ | I'll just pester keybuk with it :) | 03:36 |
| Mitario | mvo_, is there | 03:36 |
| Mitario | woops | 03:36 |
| elmo_ | kamion: I was just thinking if there was some way we could exclude i8042 as Y based on config variables is all | 03:36 |
| elmo_ | kamion: (#2605 for ref) | 03:37 |
| Mitario | yea, debconf needs to notify the package manager that it needs user interaction | 03:37 |
| Kamion | elmo_: it happens that we don't support CHRP right now, but we've had about as many queries about RS/6000 support as we've had about Xserve G5 support by my reckoning | 03:37 |
| Kamion | so it'd be nice, and CHRP is *relatively* non-evil since it basically uses yaboot | 03:37 |
| Kamion | elmo_: yeah, saw that. not sure why i8042 can't be modular though | 03:38 |
| elmo_ | Kamion: sorry, don't get me wrong, wasn't suggesting we drop/not support chrp or anything | 03:38 |
| Kamion | elmo_: d-i already has support for modprobing i8042 ... | 03:38 |
| elmo_ | kamion: can and is, that's why it's minor.. it's to try and help freaks who compile their own kernel | 03:38 |
| Kamion | elmo_: yeah, I know, it's an awkward problem | 03:38 |
| Kamion | elmo_: ah | 03:38 |
| Kamion | elmo_: well, how about making I8042 depend on PPC_CHRP, or something? | 03:39 |
| Kamion | (whatever needs it, maybe PPC_CHRP | PPC_PREP) | 03:39 |
| mvo_ | rburton: will the app-installer only work with applications in main? or will it support universe as well? | 03:39 |
| rburton | mvo_, just main | 03:39 |
| Kamion | elmo_: then presumably you'll not compile CHRP support into your custom kernel and you'll get a warning if you try to turn on i8042 | 03:39 |
| rburton | mvo_, latest versions have an "Advanced" button which spawns synaptic | 03:39 |
| mvo_ | so you use a config file that white-lists what apps are we allow to install? | 03:39 |
| rburton | far more cunning than that | 03:40 |
| mvo_ | tell me :) | 03:40 |
| rburton | mvo_, jdub originally had the idea to embed the data in .desktop files | 03:40 |
| mvo_ | please | 03:40 |
| mvo_ | yes, that was my original idea as well | 03:40 |
| elmo_ | kamion: yeah... but i guess there might be other ppc embedded stuff with i8042's.. I should probably just give it up.. after all, it's not rocket science to figure out the culprit when it panics :) | 03:40 |
| rburton | mvo_, i'm hacking it with local .desktop files at the moment, but this afternoon i'm going to try and write a script to scan a deb archive and extract the .desktop files and the icons | 03:41 |
| Mitario | wow | 03:42 |
| Mitario | sweet :) | 03:42 |
| Kamion | elmo_: well, suggested it to Herbert anyway, will see what he thinks | 03:42 |
| rburton | thus you get names, descriptions and icons | 03:42 |
| Mitario | rburton, doing all this with python-apt? | 03:42 |
| mvo_ | rburton: I can send you a prototype for such a script. i hacked it to find out about how many dekstop files are in the archive. it's a bit messy though :) | 03:42 |
| rburton | mvo_, that would be great | 03:42 |
| rburton | Mitario, hopefully | 03:42 |
| rburton | hm, can i spawn a new process in python which is detached from the parent? | 03:44 |
| tseng | thom: noticed a few other things as well | 03:47 |
| Mitario | so, any place where we can host all stuff? (svn/cvs repo's) | 03:48 |
| rburton | Mitario, i was going to abuse my gnome cvs commit access | 03:49 |
| Mitario | heh, euhm, well, can do that too :/ | 03:49 |
| Mitario | don't we have to ask permission for it? | 03:49 |
| rburton | not now the server has huuuge amounts of disk space i believe | 03:51 |
| Mitario | really? so I won't get ass-kicked if I import a module? | 03:51 |
| Mitario | rburton, btw, that screenshot you just showed, is it a mockup? or actually code? | 03:52 |
| rburton | Mitario, code | 03:52 |
| Mitario | hmm, I would love to know how you have made that lovely treeview in python :) | 03:52 |
| rburton | GtkTreeView is a black art | 03:53 |
| rburton | every time i use it i learn something new | 03:53 |
| rburton | i was going to write a big blog entry about it | 03:53 |
| Mitario | heh :) | 03:53 |
| rburton | Mitario, summary: renderer.set_cell_data_func() can do a lot. | 03:53 |
| === Mitario wonders if making ruby-apt bindings is hard | ||
| mvo_ | rburton: mail with the desktop file scaner is on the way | 03:56 |
| rburton | cool | 03:57 |
| rburton | mvo_, i *think* there is an easier way | 03:59 |
| mvo_ | tell me | 04:00 |
| rburton | i may be wrong, give me a minute :) | 04:00 |
| === Mitario reads diveintopython | ||
| lamont | amu: cool. | 04:02 |
| lamont | amu: wondering about the firmware loading stuff that you were looking at. | 04:03 |
| === rburton on phone | ||
| fabbione | re | 04:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: ping | 04:06 |
| daniels | wow, workrave is awesome | 04:08 |
| === daniels disables gnome-typing-monitor. | ||
| fabbione | daniels: damn.. i can't link xlibi18n properly | 04:09 |
| daniels | the monolithic tree's libx11 is horiffic | 04:10 |
| daniels | horrific, even | 04:10 |
| fabbione | daniels: well.. there a simple solution | 04:10 |
| fabbione | it's a subsplit :-) | 04:11 |
| fabbione | X11 builds and links fine | 04:11 |
| fabbione | i can't manage to tell the xlibi18n where to find the .so for linking | 04:11 |
| daniels | erk | 04:12 |
| daniels | you hvae to build i18n with libx11 | 04:12 |
| daniels | there's not much way around that, i'm afraid | 04:12 |
| amu | lamont: firmware, hmm 3 points, depends our policy, the driver itself, there are problems with acpi/suspend and of course a licenses | 04:14 |
| === jdthood [jdthood@x113.decis.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | amu: the firmware we think we can ship is on the CD, not getting installed correctly. | 04:14 |
| lamont | at the very least, a note for the errata saying how to install the firmware post-boot... | 04:15 |
| lamont | mdz said that even if he installed the firmware post boot, removing/reinserting didn't dothe right thing either. | 04:15 |
| amu | lamont: the driver itself it's fine ? most of drivers arnt designed for 2.6 and acpi | 04:15 |
| lamont | amu: dunno | 04:16 |
| lamont | apparently works on installed kernel, not on liveCD, or I'd expect mdz to have said it differently | 04:16 |
| amu | lamont: a clean driver with kernel 2.6 support should be no problem, me points to the wifi, those sucks without end | 04:17 |
| lamont | right. | 04:18 |
| amu | lamont: i do not know, we should add those firmware step by step, each release on more, and wait for a bugreport | 04:19 |
| fabbione | daniels: no no.. i18n is built after X11 | 04:19 |
| lamont | amu: the firmware is on the CD. | 04:19 |
| lamont | for warty | 04:19 |
| fabbione | daniels: but i think i found the option to use | 04:19 |
| daniels | fabbione: i think the trees are codependent though | 04:19 |
| lamont | it's just not downloaded to the card correctly. | 04:19 |
| === lamont bbiab | ||
| amu | pciid's / usbid's are known ? | 04:20 |
| fabbione | daniels: the i18n has it's own set of configfiles. It ignores most of the top level Imakefiles entries | 04:20 |
| mvo_ | rburton, Mitario: I just looked over python-apt and it looks like the complette pkgDepCache interface is missing | 04:20 |
| fabbione | daniels: basically a retarted mess | 04:20 |
| daniels | fabbione: and this surprises you? :) | 04:22 |
| Mitario | mvo_, enlighten me, what's that precisely (i'm not too familiar with apt internals) | 04:22 |
| fabbione | daniels: considering you are upstream? no :P | 04:23 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: it is need to mark packages for install and removal and stuff | 04:23 |
| Mitario | ah | 04:24 |
| Mitario | well, do we need that? | 04:24 |
| Mitario | i mean, we call synaptic --set-selections | 04:24 |
| Mitario | don't we? | 04:24 |
| mvo_ | sure :) I was just thinking about the long-term needs | 04:24 |
| mvo_ | if we want to be 100% python in the future | 04:25 |
| Mitario | ok :) | 04:25 |
| Mitario | hmm, yeah | 04:25 |
| daniels | fabbione: hey man, I'm not upstream for that monolithic POS :) i'm upstream for the working modular stuff | 04:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: same POS :P | 04:29 |
| === fabbione hides | ||
| rburton | mvo_, huge amounts of apt-pkg are missing | 04:29 |
| mvo_ | rburton: yes. fetcher, and installprogress too | 04:30 |
| daniels | fabbione: hey man, modular == love | 04:34 |
| === fabbione kicks Library.tmpl | ||
| fabbione | that's why it was not linking | 04:39 |
| daniels | see? | 04:39 |
| fabbione | in my imakefile | 04:39 |
| fabbione | EXTRA_LDLIB = -L../../.. | 04:39 |
| fabbione | that is loaded before Library.tmpl | 04:40 |
| fabbione | that of course has: | 04:40 |
| fabbione | EXTRA_LDLIB = | 04:40 |
| fabbione | ok changes the xi18 template | 04:42 |
| fabbione | and that's it | 04:42 |
| fabbione | that call isn't used anywhere else | 04:42 |
| Mitario | mvo_, rburton, btw if we use synaptic as default, we need to let the packages depend on it (which is ok by me) | 04:43 |
| rburton | yeah | 04:44 |
| daniels | fabbione: this is why you need to use the modular tree, dude | 04:44 |
| fabbione | daniels: dude.. it's not like i don't want to use it | 04:50 |
| fabbione | daniels: we need to figure stuff out first anyway | 04:50 |
| daniels | which stuff? | 04:51 |
| fabbione | daniels: well I need to figure stuff out first | 04:51 |
| fabbione | i am getting to know each single bit of the tree | 04:51 |
| daniels | yeah | 04:52 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | i am definetly tired | 05:05 |
| fabbione | it was such a simple solution that i couldn't even see it | 05:05 |
| === ajame [~ajame@203.210.133.164] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | amu: same card works on installed system, etc, etc. it's simply that the downloading of the firmware is b0rked | 05:09 |
| daniels | jamping | 05:14 |
| daniels | er | 05:14 |
| amu | lamont: looks like, the other thing is driver itself, what happen after a suspend. If it comes up again, i suggest driver is acceped | 05:15 |
| lamont | the other thing? | 05:16 |
| === amu sends ipw2100 to hell | ||
| === ajame [~ajame@203.210.133.164] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| amu | lamont: loading a driver is a criteria, the sys should load them. But what we win, if the driver is loaded but under working conditions it crash all time ? | 05:18 |
| lamont | true | 05:18 |
| amu | best example ipw | 05:18 |
| Mitario | rburton, mvo_ have an idea for the name of what is now called my 'update-center'? | 05:28 |
| rburton | Mitario, erm... Available Upgrades? | 05:29 |
| Mitario | yeah, i mean package and binary name | 05:29 |
| Mitario | update-center is a little too 'big' for it | 05:29 |
| Mitario | i mean, it just shows you the available updates, lets you select them and install them | 05:29 |
| === fabbione starts the X variant of the Ubuntu dance | ||
| rburton | ah | 05:30 |
| Mitario | hmm, 'update-manager'? | 05:30 |
| rburton | Mitario, deb-updater? | 05:30 |
| Mitario | hmm, good idea | 05:30 |
| === Keybuk [~scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Mitario | rburton, update-manager gets more votes here :) | 05:33 |
| rburton | update-manager works for me | 05:33 |
| mdz | fabbione: pong | 05:35 |
| mdz | Kamion: proactive security stuff sounds like ->TB, or even ->HoaryKickoff | 05:37 |
| Kamion | yeah, doesn't seem like a board issue until there's actually something for the board to decide on | 05:37 |
| Kamion | -> HoaryHedgehog maybe? | 05:37 |
| mdz | elmo_: libpng looks good as far as binaries and stuff; are we clear to amber? | 05:37 |
| mdz | Kamion: I think so, yes | 05:38 |
| mdz | at the kickoff meeting, we'll review all of the proposed featured and decide what we can do | 05:38 |
| Kamion | I stuck a bunch of stuff in InstallerTeam | 05:38 |
| Kamion | although maybe it fits better in HoaryHedgehog, I'll review | 05:39 |
| Kamion | daniels: is it seen as a problem that Xcb's name clashes with that of a cut buffer library? | 05:41 |
| Mitario | rburton, oh, about the configuration, like if the user even wants an automatic updates check, shall we put those in gconf? | 05:42 |
| Mitario | or do we need a more general config something | 05:42 |
| rburton | probably a good idea, with a check box in the UI somewhere | 05:44 |
| Mitario | yeah ok, but which config back-end do we use? | 05:44 |
| Mitario | best thing would be some kind of Computer -> System Configuration -> Automatic Updates configure app | 05:44 |
| lamont | Kamion: am I correct in believing that d-i needs Packages, not Packages.gz? | 05:44 |
| Mitario | and I like to use gconf for that | 05:45 |
| Kamion | lamont: I thought it could cope with either | 05:45 |
| Kamion | for ext in '' '.gz'; do | 05:45 |
| Kamion | pkgfile="$comp/debian-installer/binary-$ARCH/Packages$ext" | 05:45 |
| Kamion | lamont: WHICH Packages? :-) | 05:45 |
| === lamont will try it that way. | ||
| Kamion | lamont: debian-installer/binary-$ARCH, or just binary-$ARCH? | 05:46 |
| Mitario | but enabling the update-notifier could be better arranged at distro-level | 05:46 |
| lamont | well, turns out that not having main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages* was kinda fatal. :) | 05:46 |
| Kamion | certainly you need one or the other | 05:46 |
| Kamion | what are you trying to do? | 05:46 |
| lamont | and the error message was a bit less than helpful for a while... | 05:46 |
| lamont | install DVD | 05:46 |
| Keybuk | it'd be better having a "Software" system configuration dialog, from which you could edit sources.list etc. | 05:46 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: apt has it's own config system | 05:46 |
| Kamion | lamont: you know, I could probably just build one on little with considerably less faff ... | 05:46 |
| Mitario | mvo_, ok, but the user should be able to configure if the update-notifier is started at for example login | 05:47 |
| lamont | Kamion: so I started with our install release CD, and dropped in a new pool and dists. kinda nuked a couple things.. | 05:47 |
| Kamion | what extra stuff are you trying to include? | 05:47 |
| mvo_ | agreed | 05:47 |
| lamont | all of main, restricted, and little bits of universe (gotta have frozen bubble, dammit) | 05:47 |
| lamont | then I dropped the open CD in to flesh out the 4.x GB | 05:47 |
| Mitario | mvo_, what kind of mechanism can we use for that.. | 05:47 |
| Kamion | lamont: mmmkay | 05:47 |
| Kamion | I think we should start building DVDs for Hoary, personally | 05:48 |
| Kamion | although maybe weekly rather than daily | 05:48 |
| lamont | Kamion: it gave my dvd burner something to do while the livecd images were building yesterday | 05:48 |
| Kamion | bit uncomfortable with chewing 12GB a day :) | 05:48 |
| lamont | Kamion: if you built me 4GB, I could download it in somewhere around 14 days | 05:48 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: we could use the apt conf file mechanism for this, it's pretty flexible and generic. but then we will have to link against it :/ | 05:48 |
| daniels | Kamion: not really, we've dealt with this sort of thing before; library vs binary | 05:48 |
| lamont | or pay through the nose | 05:49 |
| Kamion | lamont: jigdo, dude :) | 05:49 |
| Kamion | might not even put the DVDs up for download most of the time | 05:49 |
| lamont | gonna have to learn that sometime, eh? | 05:49 |
| lamont | fwiw, my solution was to add main/debian-installer/binary-i386 to my mirror, and then things are "just dealt with" | 05:50 |
| lamont | although the mirror only has .gz for Packages and Sources, hence the question | 05:50 |
| Kamion | lamont: I'd've thought just Packages.gz would be fine; if not, there's a bug. Make sure it shows up in dists/warty/Release ... | 05:52 |
| === Kamion does 'cvs -nq up' in his debian-cd checkout, and fears | ||
| lamont | that's all there - It was an early victim of the "d-i missing, but error not clear to this moron" thinking | 05:52 |
| lamont | freshening a few depends into my archive, and then I'll burn another | 05:52 |
| Kamion | there are a number of things which can easily go wrong; you get used to them fairly quickly and learn to automatically avoid them ... | 05:53 |
| lamont | md5sums.txt is just for warm fuzzies, yes? | 05:53 |
| Kamion | one gotcha is: you cannot have more than one debian-installer Packages file (i.e. multiple components). | 05:53 |
| Kamion | lamont: no, cdrom-checker looks at it | 05:53 |
| lamont | ok. | 05:53 |
| Kamion | technically optional, in that cdrom-checker is optional | 05:54 |
| fabbione | mdz: elmo said that he was waiting for you to "amber" | 05:54 |
| Kamion | you'll run into the multiple-d-i-Packages problem with restricted firmware udebs; the standard workaround is to just cat the two Packages files together | 05:54 |
| Mitario | mvo_, another then, when are you going to check when/if the upgrade-notification daemon should be started? | 05:54 |
| Kamion | (so you end up with dists/warty/main/debian-installer/binary-*/Packages* mentioning stuff in pool/restricted/, but, well, can't be helped ...) | 05:55 |
| === fabbione just found a way to simply xorg build dep and patches of one level... just because he opened his eyes | ||
| lamont | Kamion: trivial to generate though | 05:55 |
| Kamion | lamont: yep | 05:56 |
| mdz | fabbione: do you have advisory text written? | 05:57 |
| Kamion | eventually, I hope to make it that you can install debian-cd from hoary and build Hoary CDs ... | 06:01 |
| Kamion | but that's a ways away | 06:01 |
| fabbione | mdz: i was going to copy the one from joey | 06:02 |
| fabbione | mdz: i don't have anything better than that | 06:02 |
| Mitario | mvo_, we can put the daemon in the default session | 06:02 |
| mdz | fabbione: ok, I will write it | 06:02 |
| fabbione | mdz: ok | 06:02 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: yes | 06:03 |
| Mitario | and let the daemon check for a gconf/configuration key | 06:03 |
| Mitario | gconf would be the nicest | 06:03 |
| lamont | Kamion: thanks | 06:04 |
| Mitario | mvo_, good ideas (tm) sjoerd simons | 06:05 |
| Mitario | :p | 06:05 |
| sjoerd | Mitario: hehe | 06:07 |
| Mitario | ^^ | 06:07 |
| aj | warty includes some debs straight from experimental? | 06:11 |
| daniels | aj: specific example? | 06:12 |
| aj | gnome-terminal | 06:12 |
| elmo_ | mdz: yes | 06:12 |
| daniels | er, all our GNOME stuff was done in-house and later contributed back to Debian by way of an upload to experimental, IIRC | 06:12 |
| elmo_ | mdz: sorry, I sent you mail, but it didn't work, cos of where I am | 06:12 |
| Kamion | gnome-terminal may be an exception | 06:13 |
| Kamion | it doesn't seem to have been updated in warty since June | 06:13 |
| Kamion | presumably we just took a convenient package of whatever was the latest version | 06:13 |
| Kamion | (upstream) | 06:13 |
| Kamion | I remember seb128 mentioning that there hadn't been a new upstream release of gnome-terminal for 2.8 | 06:14 |
| Mitario | reminds me | 06:14 |
| Mitario | seb128, here? | 06:14 |
| seb128 | they release 2.8.0 last week | 06:14 |
| seb128 | released | 06:15 |
| Mitario | seb128, if you want to create a new trashapplet package, just diff against trashapplet in gnome-applets | 06:15 |
| seb128 | I don't | 06:15 |
| Mitario | ok :) | 06:15 |
| seb128 | warty has been released, no new version | 06:16 |
| seb128 | and hoary will have gnome-applets 2.10 ... | 06:16 |
| Mitario | ok | 06:16 |
| seb128 | what about gnome-terminal ? | 06:16 |
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| aj | does kill -HUP $NVI_PID make nvi write a save file, or is it something else? | 06:21 |
| seb128 | for gnome-terminal, 2.7.3 has been released the 30th of june and 2.8.0 the 16th of october | 06:21 |
| seb128 | that's why it has not changed in warty | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | Mitario, rburton: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software.png | 06:22 |
| Mitario | Keybuk, cool, a friendly sources.list editor? | 06:22 |
| Kamion | SIGHUP | 06:22 |
| Kamion | SIGTERM | 06:22 |
| Kamion | If the current buffer has changed since it was last written in | 06:22 |
| Kamion | its entirety, the editor attempts to save the modified file so | 06:22 |
| Kamion | it can be later recovered. See the vi/ex Reference manual sec | 06:22 |
| Kamion | tion entitled Recovery for more information. | 06:22 |
| Keybuk | *shrug* just done a UI mock-up to inspire your discussion :p | 06:22 |
| Kamion | (apologies for UTF-8) | 06:22 |
| Mitario | Keybuk, aah, well this looks great really :) | 06:23 |
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| Mitario | I would like to see something like this in the menu :) | 06:24 |
| Mitario | and as soon as you check the 'internet update' checkbox, the notification daemon is loaded, and a gconf property is set | 06:24 |
| Keybuk | would be good, wouldn't it | 06:25 |
| Mitario | yeah :) | 06:25 |
| === Mitario is hacking on update-notification atm | ||
| Mitario | upgrade* | 06:25 |
| Mitario | still have to come to a consistancy on those update/upgrade terms :) | 06:25 |
| Keybuk | I'd use "update" to refer to changes in individual package versions and "upgrade" to indicate a new release | 06:26 |
| Mitario | i like to see it like this: there are updates for packages available, as soon as you install those updates, you upgrade the package, but of course, i can be totally wrong :) | 06:26 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: interesting that it uses and instead of just and | 06:27 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: that's what happens when you write ``foo'' in groff source | 06:28 |
| Keybuk | yeah, but why double single-quotes and not just a double-quote ? | 06:29 |
| Kamion | because that's what the manual page says to do :) | 06:29 |
| Kamion | `` can't count as a single output glyph in groff | 06:29 |
| Keybuk | heh | 06:30 |
| Kamion | there are other ways to get an open double quote, by not using such silly markup | 06:30 |
| mvo_ | Keybuk: interessting mock-up | 06:30 |
| Mitario | indeed | 06:30 |
| aj | err, does warty contain m/any reversions? ("eww, the version in sarge has crappy new features, let's go back to version X") ? | 06:34 |
| Kamion | none that spring to mind; the only thing we had to seriously back out from was mozilla-firefox 1.0pr1 | 06:36 |
| Mitario | mvo_, still around btw? :) | 06:36 |
| Kamion | which isn't in sarge or sid | 06:36 |
| Kamion | mdz might remember things I don't | 06:36 |
| aj | of the 989 packages updated in ubuntu (ie, ones with "ubuntu" version strings), 613 are older than the version now in sarge, 294 are still newer than the version in unstable | 06:37 |
| Kamion | yeah, we stopped automatically syncing newer versions back in June ... | 06:38 |
| aj | (older == lower version) | 06:38 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: I'm about to leave | 06:38 |
| mvo_ | :) | 06:38 |
| aj | know the date off hand? | 06:38 |
| Kamion | 28th I think | 06:38 |
| Mitario | mvo_, hehe :) have fun! | 06:38 |
| aj | so four months | 06:38 |
| mdz | 28th June, yes | 06:38 |
| mvo_ | thanks! bye everyone | 06:38 |
| Mitario | byebye | 06:38 |
| mdz | most of the ones which are newer are likely actually the same Debian revision, with an ubuntu revision or two attached | 06:38 |
| Kamion | aj: might be worth looking at bugs we resolved as NOTWARTY | 06:39 |
| mdz | there are very few places where we've taken new upstream versions ahead of Debian, GNOME being the primary one | 06:39 |
| aj | hrm, upstream version... | 06:39 |
| Kamion | we'll probably have a better idea once we've merged hoary | 06:39 |
| Kamion | (re-branch sid, apply warty diffs - or implement it the other way round if that happens to be a pain) | 06:40 |
| === Mitario can't wait for x.org :) | ||
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| fabbione | Mitario: you will have to wait a few weeks | 06:41 |
| Mitario | ah, well, still can't wait for it :-) | 06:42 |
| Mitario | but it's worth the waiting | 06:42 |
| aj | hrm, 165 still have newer upstream than debian; 30 have newer upstream than testing, but not unstable, 2 have been removed from unstable | 06:42 |
| fabbione | Mitario: i am afraid you will be disappointed | 06:42 |
| Mitario | fabbione, really? | 06:42 |
| Mitario | wel, i've heard it's not really stable and such | 06:42 |
| Mitario | but we have daniel ;) | 06:43 |
| fabbione | Mitario: a lot of people believe X.org is "soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" much better than Xfree86 | 06:43 |
| Mitario | nah, i just like the compmanager + eye-candy :) | 06:43 |
| fabbione | the code base is the same | 06:43 |
| fabbione | with another name | 06:43 |
| fabbione | a bunch of updated drivers | 06:43 |
| fabbione | and the "translucency" thing or how they call it | 06:43 |
| aj | ugh, two many options, my brain is exploding | 06:44 |
| Mitario | only thing I would add to my current graphical environment are the shadows | 06:44 |
| fabbione | it's not going to make your computer running any faster or any better | 06:44 |
| lamont | Kamion: please push 20041022-04 as rc2 | 06:45 |
| Kamion | lamont: URL, for the weak of mind? | 06:46 |
| lamont | people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041022-04/warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso I think | 06:50 |
| Kamion | ok | 06:51 |
| lamont | and torrents and all that? | 06:57 |
| Kamion | lamont: yup. all syncing now. | 06:58 |
| lamont | way kewl | 06:58 |
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| lamont | hrmpf. still have 300MB of free space on the install dvd... what to add,... what to add. | 07:10 |
| === amu bruns 22-04 | ||
| amu | lamont: kde *duck* | 07:11 |
| lamont | amu: no. that way lies terror | 07:11 |
| lamont | and pain | 07:11 |
| lamont | and insufficient space | 07:11 |
| lamont | :-) | 07:11 |
| amu | lamont: better idea doom3-demo ;) | 07:11 |
| lamont | I don't want to encourage people who get my personal selection thinking about kde.. | 07:12 |
| === lamont doesn't do many first-person-shooter games | ||
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| mdz | lamont: only 300M? what did you stuff it with? | 07:13 |
| lamont | mdz: all of main and restricted, bunch of games from universe, all of my (maintained) packages, source and binary | 07:14 |
| lamont | + theopencd that I brought back from Oxford | 07:14 |
| lamont | that source thing kinda fills up the disk faster. :) | 07:14 |
| lamont | hoary feature goal: frozen-bubble and kobodeluxe in main!!! | 07:15 |
| amu | lamont: kphone,skype :) | 07:16 |
| lamont | the local mirror has: 3945396 /org/ubuntu/tree/pool for a du -s output | 07:16 |
| lamont | skype isn't in the archive, and kphone is kde | 07:17 |
| lamont | amu: you're just being silly. :-P | 07:17 |
| amu | scientists may have right, irc hebetated ;) | 07:20 |
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| Kamion | elmo_: meh | 07:35 |
| Kamion | elmo_: so, you know I was complaining about dists/warty/Release saying Preview ... | 07:35 |
| Kamion | elmo_: guess what I just found in debian-cd | 07:35 |
| Kamion | ./CONF.sh:export OFFICIAL="Preview" | 07:35 |
| Kamion | d'oh! | 07:35 |
| Kamion | let's just retcon and say that warty is a Technology Preview :-) | 07:36 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: where was that release checklist thing? | 07:36 |
| === Kamion sets OFFICIAL back to Alpha | ||
| sabdfl | Kamion: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/ReleaseChecklist | 07:38 |
| sabdfl | cunningly unlinked-to | 07:38 |
| Kamion | aha, perfect | 07:42 |
| Kamion | check the volume labels on ISO's for all architectures | 07:42 |
| Kamion | heh, obviously we didn't follow it :) | 07:42 |
| sabdfl | youre welcome :-) | 07:42 |
| sabdfl | i was writing it as things unfolded, sort of a blow by blow account | 07:42 |
| sabdfl | i'm sure there will be more to add the night before hoary ;-) | 07:42 |
| sabdfl | 90 days before: find 3 bourkha's | 07:43 |
| === Kamion fleshes out that comment a bit in case he gets hit by the proverbial bus | ||
| mdz | Summary: It goes straight over without any "visible" problem... | 07:49 |
| mdz | but i hate errors mostly at boot/sex time | 07:49 |
| === mdz scratches his head | ||
| lamont | Kamion: I've tried 25000kg trucks, they're no fun... but a hell of a ride when they bounce you down the road... | 07:50 |
| mdz | I'm not sure if that's a bug report or a complaint of a personal problem | 07:51 |
| Kamion | mdz: I did wonder about that | 07:56 |
| Kamion | lamont: ouch! | 07:57 |
| Kamion | lamont: we should rechristen you "Man of Steel" | 07:57 |
| lamont | Kamion: Jan 1996, really quite an interesting experience... | 08:00 |
| lamont | looking out the windshield of your full-size Ford Bronco as you spin backwards down the interstate at ~25MPH, at the grill of the Freightliner doing 50MPH. ISTR he had quite the interesting look on his face... | 08:01 |
| lamont | getting dropped off at work by the nice state trooper was kinda fun too | 08:02 |
| lamont | although one coworker told me he quit asking "what if LaMont gets hit by a truck" that day... | 08:06 |
| mdz | hmm | 08:09 |
| mdz | we never did come to a good conclusion on naming for the security advisories | 08:09 |
| sabdfl | USN? | 08:10 |
| === lamont can't think of anything better than USN | ||
| lamont | Kamion: and for the record, d-i doesn't care if a Packages file is 0 length... Just ignores that one. | 08:21 |
| lamont | (in the yet-another-non-bug-lamont-thought-he-found-for-a-while category) | 08:21 |
| bob2 | USA! | 08:26 |
| lamont | could do WSA, HSA, GSA, PSA and be release specifc.... | 08:30 |
| lamont | but that would be silly | 08:30 |
| lamont | mdz: how long do we want to leave rc2-live as rc2 before we bless it and throw it out the door? I'm thinking Sat eve US time at the latest | 08:31 |
| mdz | lamont: please send out a call for testing | 08:31 |
| mdz | maybe best to follow up to my previous one, and point to the new URL | 08:32 |
| lamont | u-d@? | 08:32 |
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| lamont | your previous one, or mine? | 08:34 |
| Mitario | um, wtf? | 08:39 |
| Mitario | /usr/include/bits/sigset.h:103: error: two or more data types in declaration of `__sigismember' | 08:39 |
| thom | tseng: please send me mail about NetMan,if you would | 08:39 |
| mdz | > I've just installed Ubuntu 1.0, and most things have gone well | 08:48 |
| mdz | :-) | 08:48 |
| maskie | mdz, did not know year 2001 had a month 0 :) | 08:51 |
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| mdz | hornbeck|away: ping? | 10:08 |
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| doko_ | hmm, I'm unable to find the eps logos. anyone knows where to look? | 10:19 |
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| Mitario | hmm, lets see wether my gnome-session + upgrade-notification packages work :) | 11:05 |
| Mitario | brb | 11:05 |
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| Mitario | yay! works | 11:17 |
| hornbeck | mdz: yes? | 11:26 |
| mdz | hornbeck: sent email | 11:28 |
| hornbeck | ok | 11:28 |
| hornbeck | mdz: I will moderate if you want | 11:29 |
| mdz | hornbeck: ok, please reply to the message and let jdub know | 11:29 |
| mdz | hornbeck: and thanks | 11:29 |
| hornbeck | no prob | 11:30 |
| hornbeck | plovs: ping! | 11:32 |
| Mitario | anyone knows stuff about the auto cdbs macro's for building a deb? | 11:45 |
| Mitario | like debhelper.mk and gnome.mk | 11:45 |
| hornbeck | plovs: did you get the mail from mark? | 11:54 |
| Mitario | hmm, anyone knows a place where I could host some packages? | 11:55 |
| === lamont runs off for a little bit | ||
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