[12:58] <kiko> BradB, is __dict__ available on an SQLO?
[12:59] <BradB> nope, because if the interface
[12:59] <BradB> i wrote SQLObjectEditView though
[12:59] <BradB> so, it does this:
[12:59] <BradB>                 class Snapshot(object):
[12:59] <BradB>                     pass
[12:59] <BradB>                 content_before_modification = Snapshot()
[12:59] <BradB>                 for name in self.schema.names():
[12:59] <BradB>                     setattr(
[12:59] <BradB>                         content_before_modification,
[12:59] <BradB>                         name, getattr(content, name))
[01:00] <BradB> later, i have:
[01:00] <BradB>                     notify(SQLObjectModifiedEvent(
[01:00] <BradB>                         content, content_before_modification, self.fieldNames))
[01:01] <BradB> it can probably use some improvement, but then, so can everything else. it works for now.
[01:01] <BradB> the tricky part (where i stopped earlier, and will resume tomorrow) is to output foo.bar in a useful way...knowing that it might be a "displayable" value, or an id for a vocab, or even an sqlobject.
[04:26] <kiko> Indeed, because the Snapshot isn't an SQLO.
[04:38] <BradB> kiko: that doesn't affect anything though
[04:38] <BradB> it's got the values
[04:38] <BradB> (and, of course, the snapshot can't be an sqlobject)
[04:41] <kiko> BradB, well, it affects the fact that following references doesn't unpersist them magically :)
[04:42] <BradB> nope. a snapshot of foo.person is still that ref to Person
[04:43] <kiko> oh.
[04:43] <kiko> you're actually handling that as well?
[04:44] <BradB> there's nothing special to do
[04:44] <BradB> foo.person is a Person, so when i assign that to something else (e.g. to the snapshot object), i've still got a person
[04:44] <kiko> I see. SQLO takes care of that for you when you so getattr(content, name).
[04:44] <BradB> yup
[04:44] <kiko> yes, I'm thinking at a lower level.
[04:45] <kiko> so how's canada BradB?
[04:46] <BradB> i'm kickin it in the plateau in montreal; it's great
[04:46] <kiko> winter's closing in huh?
[04:46] <kiko> we just bought a dual xeon server for the office, it toasts
[04:46] <BradB> whouch
[04:46] <BradB> yeah, winter's coming on. i'm ready for it.
[04:46] <kiko> the case weighs approximately a ton
[04:47] <BradB> heh
[04:47] <kiko> you bought a blanket? 
[04:47] <BradB> built a better igloo
[04:47] <BradB> :P
[04:47] <kiko> you would be amazed at how hot this office is today man.
[04:47] <kiko> then again, http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/507802/
[04:48] <BradB> hmmmm
[04:49] <BradB> so maybe sweat shops are the One True Way
[04:49] <kiko> you mean literal sweat shops. that's us. :)
[04:49] <BradB> heh
[04:50] <BradB> i went shopping for a thinkpad the other day...turns out the place i went (future shop) doesn't even sell em, ugh.
[04:50] <kiko> oh, so you didn't get one?
[04:50] <kiko> did jblack find anything surprising about HFS+?
[04:50] <BradB> nope, not yet, i'll find a place on the weekend
[04:50] <BradB> nope, hfs+ sucks
[04:50] <BradB> ufs would be better. i'd like to hold onto os x, but i'm almost ready to give it up.
[04:51] <BradB> i either buy a new powerbook, or a buy a new not-powerbook
[04:51] <BradB> on a new pb g4, i'd put panther and UFS
[04:53] <kiko> and UFS is nice?
[04:53] <BradB> it's supposed to be much, much faster than HFS+
[04:53] <BradB> i could live with it being a bit slower than ext3, but only so much...
[04:54] <kiko> have you considered running LNX on that thing?
[04:54] <BradB> the only thing i'd do to this machine is put more ram in it. i'm waiting till i get new hardware to be installing any new os, whether it's os x or linux.
[11:58] <sabdfl> cool
[11:58] <sabdfl> events. very cool.
[02:45] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: changes on Nicole still not working on mawson (patch-676)
[03:49] <SteveA> BradB: full moinmoin is now in zwiki 
[03:49] <SteveA> I'll produce another snapshot in a bit.
[03:49] <BradB> SteveA: i think sabdfl was going to get the zwiki guys to take care of installing it, but i could be wrong
[03:50] <sabdfl> hi guys
[03:50] <BradB> hi :)
[03:51] <sabdfl> BradB: didn't want to distract you from malone so i thought roche could do it
[03:51] <sabdfl> but if it's really quick, then let's do it amongst ourselves
[03:51] <sabdfl> two things: need to restrict the wiki folder to just wiki pages
[03:51] <sabdfl> and need to prevent the wiki pages from showing up in the navbar on the left
[03:51] <sabdfl> inside the wiki, we'll just use wiki navigation
[03:53] <sabdfl> BradB: how does the locking mechanism work? nominated people only can edit those pages?
[03:53] <BradB> okay, so basically all this involves is installing zwiki, and blowing away and readding /wiki?
[03:53] <sabdfl> no, can leave the existing /wiki
[03:53] <BradB> ok
[03:53] <sabdfl> we'll just move the stuff they have created there to better locations
[03:54] <sabdfl> limit /wiki/ to wiki pages only
[03:54] <BradB> sabdfl: with locking, only managers can unlock/edit the pages
[03:54] <sabdfl> ok, and who sets the list of managers?
[03:54] <BradB> dunno
[03:54] <BradB> maybe roche was doing that before
[03:54] <BradB> maybe there's a group set up so that it's easy to do through the plone ui, but i haven't looked
[03:55] <SteveA> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-23.tar.gz
[03:55] <SteveA> simon took out the previous moinmoin support, and ported the parsing directly from moinmoin itself
[03:55] <sabdfl> i suspect lulu knows
[03:55] <SteveA> isn't it wonderful when lots of open source projects are written in python
[03:56] <sabdfl> let's help the world get more wonder :-)
[03:56] <SteveA> lulu was setting up managers using the plone UI for that
[03:57] <BradB> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/prefs_group_members?groupname=managers
[03:58] <ddaa> How can I have a look at the production launchpad?
[03:58] <ddaa> I want to know which sourcesources are still in the "do-not-sync" product.
[03:59] <ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/ gives me a 403
[04:05] <sabdfl> BradB: cool, thanks. when people edit a page on the web site that is not locked, do we get notified?
[04:05] <sabdfl> or can we see a list of pages that have been edited like that?
[04:07] <BradB> there's no notification happening, and there's no plone way of seeing a list of recently edited pages that i'm aware of (the collective is always having new products added though; it's possible there's something there that does something like that, but i'd have to dig around a bit)
[04:08] <sabdfl> SteveA: semantics?
[04:08] <BradB> SteveA: is repozo.py -B -f Data.fs going to backup the Data.fs nicely?
[04:08] <sabdfl> foo = IAnInterface(bar, None)
[04:08] <sabdfl> will that give an object adapted to IAnInterface, or none if it could not find the relevant adapter?
[04:09] <SteveA> adapt bar to IAnInterface.  If the adaption is not possible (bar does not provide IAnInterface, and is not adaptable to it), then return None.
[04:09] <SteveA> assign result to foo, of course
[04:09] <SteveA> yes, basically what you said
[04:09] <SteveA> BradB: um... I always have to check on the zodb wiki pages.  let me find them for you...
[04:09] <sabdfl> "is not adaptable"
[04:10] <sabdfl> is that calculated on the basis of interfaces that bar implements()?
[04:10] <BradB> SteveA: i can see the docs in the file itself, i'm just not sure if i can trust that it'll work. :)
[04:10] <SteveA> http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo
[04:10] <SteveA> I've backed up and restored following the instructions there, on the ubuntulinux and canonical sites
[04:10] <SteveA> when gentoo went down when we were in london
[04:11] <SteveA> bbiab
[04:11] <BradB> ok, thanks, i'll read and go for it then
[04:11] <SteveA> oh, there are some filestorage/zodb fsref errors early in the storage. removed with a pack.  not serious.
[04:11] <SteveA> not caused by the power outage.
[04:15] <BradB> nice crontab entries:
[04:15] <BradB> # Zope has memory leaks ...
[04:15] <BradB> 3 */2 * * * /home/zope/instances/ubuntu/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
[04:15] <BradB> 10 4 * * * /home/zope/instances/canonical/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
[04:16] <sabdfl> BradB: i think elmo found that the zope instance was growing uncontrollably
[04:18] <BradB> yeah
[04:21] <BradB> the new wiki's installed
[04:27] <sabdfl> eish!
[04:27] <sabdfl> the wiki she is not working
[04:28] <sabdfl> BradB: ^
[04:28] <BradB> it will again now
[04:28] <sabdfl> ah
[04:28] <BradB> i broke it temporarily to add the restrict method, but it didn't do what i expected, so i've removed it temporarily
[04:32] <sabdfl> ok
[04:33] <BradB> there, restricting works
[04:33] <sabdfl> BradB: superstar, thanks
[04:33] <sabdfl> the existing non-wiki content can be moved out?
[04:33] <BradB> heh. last thing, i'll fix the navtree
[04:34] <BradB> it can be moved, sure
[04:38] <BradB> filtering should work fine in the navtree now
[04:39] <BradB> i notice members can't add wiki pages though
[04:42] <BradB> sabdfl: maybe that's how you guys want the perms though, i'm not sure. it's definitely configured to only allow managers to add wiki pages presently.
[04:42] <sabdfl> definitely want members to be able to create wiki pages
[04:44] <BradB> sabdfl: and delete pages?
[04:44] <BradB> or rename?
[04:44] <sabdfl> BradB: hmm.... maybe just managers for that
[04:44] <sabdfl> rename, yes, it's gacefully handled i think
[04:44] <sabdfl> not sure if rename to an existing name is caught well
[04:45] <BradB> it is
[04:46] <sabdfl> then yes, let members rename pages too
[04:49] <BradB> sabdfl: should be go to go now
[04:50] <sabdfl> navbar's still showing all the contents of /wiki/
[04:50] <sabdfl> should just show "Wiki" with nothing beneath that
[04:50] <sabdfl> forces the navigation inside the wiki to be wikinav only
[04:51] <BradB> oh, i just config'd it to not show wiki pages
[04:51] <BradB> hm
[05:01] <sabdfl> hmm... maybe it just shows when you are logged in
[05:05] <BradB> those folders'll show to anyone, because they're published
[05:05] <BradB> basically, the list of meta types to not list in the navtree is a site-wide configuration
[05:05] <BradB> so, i said site-wide to not show wiki pages in the navtree
[05:05] <sabdfl> bradb: ok
[05:06] <sabdfl> it's looking pretty slick now, what do you think?
[05:06] <BradB> but since those folders are published, users still see them. can we make those folders under /wiki simply "visible"?
[05:06] <sabdfl> >:-)
[05:06] <BradB> seems pretty cool
[05:06] <sabdfl> those folder really should not be there at all
[05:06] <sabdfl> i gave the doc team some directions to start playing with it
[05:06] <sabdfl> and they created that content
[05:06] <sabdfl> i thought i'd cut and pasted the one folder to somewhere else
[05:06] <BradB> if it's only going to be wiki pages under /wiki, then this problem will magically go away once those folders are moved to better locations.
[05:07] <sabdfl> i guess the deleted pages one needs to stay there, but doens't have to be published
[05:07] <BradB> it isn't currently (I'm assuming, because i don't see it while looking at the page unauth'd)
[05:08] <sabdfl> right
[05:08] <sabdfl> silly me :-)
[05:08] <sabdfl> and the other folders are just cache hangovers, will be gone in an hour or two
[05:08] <sabdfl> ok, i'm going to un-publish the wiki entry too, now we know it's working, so the doc team can continue to work quietly till we announce the switch
[05:09] <BradB> you're seeing the other folders because you're a manager
[05:09] <BradB> there's a site-wide setting that says "let managers see hidden content"
[05:09] <BradB> i don't see anything but those two prev mentioned folders when logged in as b.b@c.c
[05:11] <sabdfl> i've retracted the wiki content
[05:11] <BradB> pages?
[05:11] <sabdfl> so now we just have to get the old wiki content across and send out the announcement
[05:11] <sabdfl> thanks bradb
[05:11] <BradB> no prob
[05:12] <sabdfl> pages?
[05:27] <BradB> n/m, everything should be good
[06:06] <sabdfl> stevea: ping
[06:07] <SteveA> hi
[06:07] <SteveA> need a hand moving wiki content?
[06:08] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: canonical.arch.infoUpdater bugfix and increased verbosity (patch-677)
[06:08] <sabdfl> stevea: may have found a blocker on that front
[06:08] <sabdfl> pages like /ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> in moin, these are nested
[06:09] <sabdfl> so we have WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> and HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule
[06:09] <sabdfl> what's the zwiki equivalent?
[06:09] <sabdfl> can the zwiki span folders?
[06:09] <sabdfl> can a folder be a wiki page?
[06:09] <sabdfl> sort of
[06:10] <sabdfl> everything was going swimmingly till that point though, Moin tables *no problem* :-)
[06:10] <SteveA> they're not really nested, though, in moin
[06:10] <SteveA> it is just using the name with an artificial / in it
[06:10] <sabdfl> no, it's that bastard _2ef thing
[06:11] <SteveA> in zwiki, you usually just catenate things:  WartyWarthogReleaseSchedule
[06:11] <SteveA> there is no particular magic nesting
[06:11] <SteveA> I'll just check about subfolders
[06:13] <SteveA> can't see a way to do subfolders without making a new ZWiki (with its own namespace) inside that subfolder
[06:13] <SteveA> if it really is a separate wiki namespace, then that's the thing to do
[06:14] <SteveA> otherwise, we can use WikiBadges to organise things into subtopics
[06:14] <SteveA> for example, have WartyWarthogRelated in each page that is to do with warty
[06:14] <sabdfl> from a search point of view it's probably fine to do it in separate wikis
[06:14] <SteveA> and so, that becomes a place where all warty-related things are linked from and too
[06:14] <SteveA> yeah -- site search will pick it all up
[06:15] <SteveA> But, a standard wiki name link won't work
[06:15] <sabdfl> except in the local namespace
[06:15] <SteveA> shouldn't be a hard feature to add, though, to make it work
[06:15] <SteveA> yeah -- I mean between nested wikis
[06:15] <sabdfl> would it require traversal hints in the name? ../HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule?
[06:16] <SteveA> not sure what to do about the page that is the root of the nested wiki
[06:16] <sabdfl> FrontPage as ever
[06:16] <SteveA> if that is WartyWarthog, then is that in the containing wiki, or the nested wiki?
[06:16] <SteveA> you can't have a page called WartyWarthog and a wiki folder called WartyWarthog
[06:16] <sabdfl> and renaming could get fun
[06:16] <sabdfl> hmm...
[06:17] <SteveA> you'd do the link as a standard "external" link, or as an inter-wiki link
[06:17] <sabdfl> maybe we should just concatenate and be done with it
[06:17] <SteveA> yeah -- probably best to keep it simple to start with
[06:17] <sabdfl> interwiki?
[06:17] <SteveA> if warty / hoary grows its own stuff such that it would make sense to split it off, we can do that at that time
[06:17] <SteveA> maybe with help of a couple of bounties to make it work better
[06:18] <SteveA> http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks
[06:18] <SteveA> I meant "remote wiki links"
[06:18] <carlos> sabdfl: did we lost any chance to get ubuntu.org?
[06:19] <sabdfl> carlos: i think so
[06:19] <sabdfl> pity
[06:19] <carlos> :-(
[06:20] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: comments and better waterfall status (patch-62)
[06:20] <ddaa> sabdfl: have you made a decision on the location of the arch sprint just before the conf?
[06:20] <sabdfl> ddaa: london
[06:20] <sabdfl> unless we can come to your house!
[06:21] <carlos> X-)
[06:21] <ddaa> There are two double beds available, but I'm uncertain that I would get the clearance from the landlord :-)
[06:21] <sabdfl> stevea: think we can do something semi-automatic on the migration?
[06:22] <sabdfl> or should we just brute force it tomorrow?
[06:22] <sabdfl> or get lulu to brute-force it Monday?
[06:22] <sabdfl> erm, that would be cute-force it
[06:23] <SteveA> we can probably do some things to make it easier.  maybe produce a web page with direct links to all the raw pages on the moin wiki
[06:23] <SteveA> that way, lulu can click on each link, and there's the stuff ready for pasting into a new page on zwiki
[06:24] <SteveA> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationArea?action=raw
[06:24] <SteveA> for example
[06:25] <SteveA> Here's a list of all pages in the moin wiki   http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TitleIndex?action=titleindex
[06:26] <SteveA> but, a lot of those are to do with the wiki itself :-(
[06:27] <sabdfl> yes, raw mode rocks
[06:27] <sabdfl> hmm...
[06:27] <sabdfl> could we nudge moin a little
[06:27] <sabdfl> to put a button at the top of the page
[06:28] <SteveA> there is a link at the top of the page
[06:28] <sabdfl> that posts a form with the right voodoo over to site-edit?
[06:28] <SteveA> oh..
[06:28] <sabdfl> and pre-populate the form with the right stuff
[06:28] <sabdfl> so lulu just clicks on that button and BOOM is in site-edit with the wiki page ready
[06:29] <SteveA> I guess that's possible.  I haven't looked at the moin code.
[06:30] <SteveA> I wonder whether a bookmarklet could do it
[06:30] <sabdfl> but the form contents and url would be predictable?
[06:30] <sabdfl> bookmarklet?
[06:30] <SteveA> bit of javascript you can put into a bookmark to extend your browser in interesting ways
[06:31] <sabdfl> i'd rather use a more limited tool set
[06:31] <SteveA> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiBookmarklet
[06:31] <sabdfl> we know python, moin and zope pretty well
[06:32] <SteveA> this is a one-off.  and, I think there might be a bookmarklet that does almost what we need already.
[06:32] <SteveA> I'll take a browse through http://www.bookmarklets.com/tools/categor.html
[07:31] <mdz> redhat has a shortcut from the top
[07:31] <mdz> -EWINDOW
[08:50] <BradB> panther rocks da boat
[08:52] <BradB> bbl
[09:01] <jblack> SteveA: Hey, you there? 
[11:38] <jblack> any zope guys around? 
[11:42] <SteveA> hey j
[11:42] <jblack> Hiya stevea.
[11:42] <jblack> I'm trying to do z3rc2. ./configure reports an optimum python, but I get an include error
[11:43] <SteveA> do you use jabber?
[11:43] <jblack> No sir.
[11:43] <SteveA> an include error is interesting
[11:44] <SteveA> paste here?  http://paste.husk.org/
[11:45] <jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1847
[11:46] <SteveA> oh, that's an ImportError
[11:46] <SteveA> not an include error
[11:46] <SteveA> you haven't installed python-dev
[11:46] <SteveA> so, you don't have distutils
[11:46] <jblack> So I haven't.
[11:46] <SteveA> I keep making the case that distutils should be part of the default python install
[11:46] <SteveA> but, sabdfl and mdz (I think) think otherwise
[11:46] <jblack> distutils is in python-dev, I take it? 
[11:46] <SteveA> yes
[11:46] <SteveA> it is part of the standard library
[11:47] <SteveA> I'm philosophically opposed to splitting the standard library
[11:47] <SteveA> otherwise, it isn't "standard" any more
[11:47] <SteveA> anyhow, enough trolling
[11:47] <mdz> SteveA: I'm not sure about sabdfl, but that is not my position
[11:47] <spiv> SteveA: There's an ubuntu bug about it...
[11:47] <SteveA> mdz: ok, sorry I misrepresented
[11:47] <mdz> SteveA: it's here in black and white: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640
[11:48] <spiv> mdz: Beat me to it :)
[11:48] <jblack> There we go! :) 
[11:49] <spiv> We had a user on #ubuntu today caught by this problem, too.
[11:49] <spiv> So, I'm looking forward to it being fixed in hoary :)
[11:53] <SteveA> jblack: if you feel it is appropriate, maybe add that you've been caught out by the odd error
[11:53] <SteveA> to the bug report
[11:53] <jblack> Doing...
[11:53] <jblack> Hey... Silly thought?
[11:54] <jblack> Would it be appropriate to add a check/warning to configure to check for python-dev? 
[11:55] <SteveA> no
[11:55] <SteveA> because distutils is in the standard library
[11:55] <SteveA> it is a broken python installation that doesn't have all of the standard library
[11:56] <SteveA> in order to get the full python installation on ubuntu, you need python and python-dev
[11:56] <SteveA> but, this is not made clear
[11:56] <SteveA> so, you were mislead into thinking you had a standard python installed
[11:56] <SteveA> when in fact you had a non-standard subset
[11:58] <jblack> Ahhh, because ubuntu didn't install it.
[11:59] <SteveA> right.  "partial python" is in desktop or base or whatever
[12:00] <mdz> FWIW, if this issue had been raised a couple of months earlier, it's quite likely that it would have been changed for the Warty release
[12:00] <SteveA> I raised it a while ago
[12:00] <SteveA> can't remember exactly when
[12:00] <mdz> with me?
[12:00] <SteveA> no, with mark
[12:00] <SteveA> maybe I should have gone on the list too
[12:00] <jblack> I moaned lightly about gcc on canonical.
[12:00] <mdz> the first I heard about it was that bug report, which was about midway between preview and final
[12:00] <mdz> not the time to make that kind of change
[12:00] <jblack> actually, #warthogs