| plovs | hornbeck: yes just logged in | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| hornbeck | ok, can you send me the copy? | 12:00 |
| plovs | hornbeck: of marks mail? | 12:01 |
| mjg59 | My collection of people to shoot is getting larger. | 12:03 |
| hornbeck | nice | 12:03 |
| plovs | hornbeck: kind of slowish | 12:04 |
| hornbeck | plovs: You are? | 12:04 |
| plovs | hornbeck: that plone thingie | 12:05 |
| hornbeck | plovs: can you send me the mail though so I can know what to do | 12:05 |
| hornbeck | I have not seen it | 12:06 |
| plovs | hornbeck: ok | 12:06 |
| hornbeck | thanks | 12:06 |
| plovs | hornbeck: on its way | 12:08 |
| hornbeck | thanks | 12:08 |
| mdz | gah, old forum messages flooding the list | 12:17 |
| tseng | thom: sure thing | 12:18 |
| mdz | mjg59: reading debian-devel again? | 12:18 |
| plovs | hornbeck: did you login its a little tricky | 12:24 |
| mjg59 | Rock. | 12:26 |
| mjg59 | I can get video back after resume without needing to fuck about with acpi_sleep paramaters now | 12:26 |
| tseng | thom: sent | 12:29 |
| tseng | thom: actually no its not.. anyone have thoms email handy? | 12:29 |
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| hornbeck | plovs was not really that tricky | 12:31 |
| plovs | are you in the right place *not* www.etc | 12:31 |
| tseng | hornbeck: you were correct, i removed mono core from my repo | 12:32 |
| tseng | hornbeck: it should be in universe now | 12:32 |
| hornbeck | ok | 12:32 |
| hornbeck | I will add that part to the beagleinstall page | 12:32 |
| tseng | cool | 12:32 |
| hornbeck | I get mail all day about that page | 12:32 |
| hornbeck | I did not relize that many people wanted to use beagle right now | 12:32 |
| tseng | sorry if i caused you trouble | 12:32 |
| plovs | hornbeck: it's not even close to as easy as moin, but it looks better | 12:32 |
| hornbeck | no trouble at all | 12:32 |
| tseng | it should just work | 12:32 |
| tseng | from warty | 12:32 |
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| hornbeck | ok it is updated now | 12:37 |
| hornbeck | going to eat | 12:37 |
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| hornbeck | mdz: is enrico the documentation team leader? | 01:58 |
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| mdz | hornbeck: I don't think a leader has been appointed yet | 02:04 |
| hornbeck | ahhh | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | so I can still fight for power | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | hahahahahhahahha | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | ops | 02:05 |
| mdz | you guys are operating on pure adrenaline :-) | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | yes we are | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | ops should have been opps | 02:05 |
| hornbeck | I am off to work on some more stuff | 02:05 |
| mdz | opps should be oops :-) | 02:06 |
| hornbeck | opps :-) | 02:06 |
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| jdub | morning boys and girls | 03:23 |
| lifeless | what about hermaphrodites? You sexist you | 03:24 |
| jdub | they're boys and girls | 03:25 |
| === lifeless winces | ||
| Mitario | hehe, lol | 03:31 |
| Mitario | hi jdub | 03:31 |
| amu | hey jdub | 03:32 |
| tseng | hi | 03:32 |
| tseng | jdub: you have an email addy for thom on hand? | 03:32 |
| Mitario | anyone knows of a cool rocking python complient build-system? :) | 03:32 |
| tseng | Mitario: um.. was that a troll? | 03:33 |
| Mitario | not really :) | 03:33 |
| Mitario | just a question :) | 03:33 |
| Mitario | damn i have to learn to use less smilies | 03:34 |
| Mitario | i'm writing a gnome python app here, and I want to have a nice build system | 03:37 |
| Mitario | or should I just write it myself | 03:37 |
| jdub | tseng: thom@canonical.com | 03:38 |
| lifeless | tseng: any old addy for thom? thom@planetarytramp.net should reach him | 03:38 |
| lifeless | garh, race conditions | 03:38 |
| tseng | i mustve fat fingered canonical | 03:38 |
| tseng | since i got it back | 03:38 |
| tseng | ah sorry, i typed two N's | 03:39 |
| jdub | haw haw | 03:39 |
| tseng | there we go. | 03:40 |
| hornbeck | thanks jdub, for the list | 04:10 |
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| lamont | moo | 05:42 |
| Mitario | *yawns* | 05:42 |
| Mitario | hmm, should go to bed soon | 05:42 |
| hornbeck | yep | 05:42 |
| Mitario | it's 5:42 AM over here | 05:42 |
| hornbeck | nice | 05:42 |
| hornbeck | it is 10:43pm here | 05:43 |
| Mitario | but i don't wanna, i'm too busy hacking python | 05:43 |
| hornbeck | its amazing how people come after you when a doc is wrong in alittle spot | 05:43 |
| hornbeck | "why does this not work like you said it would!!!!!" | 05:44 |
| tuo2 | hornbeck: c'est la vie | 05:45 |
| hornbeck | exactly | 05:45 |
| hornbeck | well I am off to shower | 05:47 |
| bob2 | hornbeck: if they even read it, you're ahead of the game ;0 | 05:47 |
| hornbeck | bob2: very true | 05:47 |
| fabbione | morning guys | 06:20 |
| mdz | morning | 06:22 |
| mdz | fabbione: would it be enough notice if I scheduled the hoary kickoff meeting for monday? | 06:22 |
| fabbione | mdz: monday is perfect | 06:22 |
| mdz | gerat | 06:22 |
| mdz | great | 06:22 |
| fabbione | my gf is busy with friends :-))) | 06:22 |
| mdz | heh | 06:22 |
| fabbione | and i scheduled all X day | 06:22 |
| mdz | wouldn't want to get anyone into trouble :-) | 06:23 |
| fabbione | so a meeting to break from X is cool | 06:23 |
| mdz | working on the X.org merge? | 06:23 |
| mdz | or other stuff? | 06:23 |
| fabbione | mdz: i already have a bunch of packages with path forwarded from xfree86 | 06:23 |
| fabbione | s/path/pacthes | 06:23 |
| fabbione | i have been working almost 15 hours a day last week | 06:24 |
| fabbione | ah i need to send the activity reports :-) | 06:24 |
| mdz | it was a long week | 06:24 |
| fabbione | yeah | 06:24 |
| fabbione | but full of good results | 06:24 |
| mdz | perhaps not as long as the preview week | 06:25 |
| mdz | but long :-) | 06:25 |
| fabbione | mdz: www.fabbione.net/Packages.gz | 06:26 |
| fabbione | and i have another lib pending | 06:26 |
| fabbione | i plan to finish it this morning | 06:26 |
| fabbione | while my gf and her mother are still sleeping | 06:27 |
| mdz | what are all those -source- packages? | 06:27 |
| fabbione | mdz: X.org -> split | 06:28 |
| fabbione | similar to the kernel | 06:28 |
| mdz | Package: xorg-source-programs-xplsprinters | 06:28 |
| mdz | I mean, what is in that binary package^ ? | 06:28 |
| fabbione | it contains a tar of xc/programs/xplsprinters | 06:29 |
| fabbione | at the moment it's just a script that creates them | 06:29 |
| mdz | this is starting to sound scary :-) | 06:29 |
| fabbione | some of them are bogus | 06:29 |
| mdz | are you implying that the various source tarballs can't build by themselves? | 06:29 |
| fabbione | no i imply that for example xorg-source-lib-xtrans doesn't generate any binary package | 06:30 |
| fabbione | but it is required to build other libraries | 06:30 |
| fabbione | it is used in a very weird way | 06:30 |
| fabbione | but it's needed | 06:30 |
| fabbione | even if it doesn't generate binaries directly | 06:30 |
| fabbione | libxdmcp and libx11 build-deps on it | 06:30 |
| fabbione | if you are curious to see how it builds i can put the stuff up somewhere | 06:31 |
| fabbione | but it must be highly hidden | 06:31 |
| fabbione | i don't want any of the orig to leak anywhere | 06:31 |
| fabbione | until we are not ready for distribution | 06:32 |
| === fabbione is happy to see that amber did her job | ||
| === lamont looks at the topic, gags | ||
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Warty Day! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | please test http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso so it can be warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | ||
| mdz | warty day is officially over. onward to hoary day! | 06:34 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:fabbione] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Warty Day! | | BE THE SIGNAL | please test http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso so it can be warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | ||
| fabbione | we have slightly more than 13 bugs now | 06:34 |
| mdz | I deleted the wrong item | 06:35 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:lamont] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | please test http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | ||
| fabbione | ehhehe | 06:35 |
| === mdz hums "happy trails" | ||
| === lamont looks forward to changing that last item again in about 16 hours | ||
| fabbione | mdz: does that Package list looks scary? | 06:36 |
| === lamont sleeps | ||
| fabbione | night lamont | 06:37 |
| lamont | fabbione: night | 06:37 |
| fabbione | mdz: with the split we will need to pull in a couple of packages from universe | 06:41 |
| fabbione | mdz: at least these are the numbers i have until now | 06:41 |
| mdz | fabbione: which ones? | 06:41 |
| mdz | fabbione: will it always need to be packaged this way, or will it eventually be split up in a more traditional way? | 06:41 |
| mdz | like -dev packages | 06:41 |
| fabbione | mdz: rman and another one.. i can't remember | 06:41 |
| mdz | rman?? | 06:41 |
| fabbione | it's required for documentation | 06:42 |
| fabbione | mdz: the packaging system IS traditional | 06:42 |
| fabbione | check libfs6 for example | 06:42 |
| fabbione | source package is xorg-libfs -> libfs6 and libfs-dev | 06:42 |
| mdz | fabbione: I am talking about the "-source-" packages | 06:42 |
| mdz | which are build-depended on | 06:42 |
| fabbione | mdz: they will die slowly | 06:42 |
| mdz | and contain source code | 06:42 |
| fabbione | mdz: you need to see to understand | 06:42 |
| mdz | I am glad :-) | 06:42 |
| fabbione | wait a few secs | 06:43 |
| mdz | I understand; it is like the apache madness | 06:43 |
| mdz | jakarta | 06:43 |
| hornbeck | man how do you guys deal with people who just don't get it | 06:43 |
| fabbione | mdz: i dunno jakarta | 06:43 |
| fabbione | mdz: no no.. this is much better :-) | 06:44 |
| mdz | hornbeck: in what context? | 06:44 |
| hornbeck | mdz: just venting from getting questions about stuff that I think is just common since | 06:45 |
| hornbeck | it will make me a better doc writer | 06:45 |
| hornbeck | :-) | 06:45 |
| mdz | hornbeck: treat their high expectations as an indication of their confidence in you | 06:46 |
| hornbeck | mdz: That is a good way to look at it | 06:46 |
| hornbeck | thanks | 06:46 |
| === hornbeck goes to bed | ||
| hornbeck | good night | 06:48 |
| mdz | night | 06:48 |
| fabbione | mdz: check in the usual place | 06:50 |
| fabbione | :) | 06:50 |
| fabbione | basically the concept is that as soon as each X.org components gains independency | 06:51 |
| fabbione | it will be killed from xorg_6.8.x | 06:52 |
| fabbione | and it will not produce the -source- package | 06:52 |
| fabbione | and source will move to the appropriate orig.tar.gz | 06:52 |
| fabbione | it's very simple and efficent | 06:52 |
| fabbione | since it requires a one time blessing from ftpmasters | 06:52 |
| fabbione | the first upload of the -source- will be done once basically | 06:53 |
| fabbione | and not touched anymore | 06:53 |
| fabbione | this will save a lot of bw | 06:53 |
| fabbione | of course.. it will be redone on major upstream releases | 06:54 |
| fabbione | but all the patches and small things live in the splitted packages | 06:54 |
| fabbione | so an upload is like a very few hunderd kb | 06:54 |
| fabbione | it's pure crack | 06:54 |
| fabbione | but it's working for me now | 06:54 |
| mdz | I guess I am wondering why it makes sense to split up the source packages already when the upstream source is not truly split yet | 06:56 |
| fabbione | mdz: preparation | 06:56 |
| fabbione | it will save us a lot of time later on | 06:56 |
| fabbione | + it is giving us an amazing overview of how the build system interacts | 06:56 |
| mdz | how will it save time? | 06:57 |
| fabbione | and how stuff build-dep on each other | 06:57 |
| fabbione | several points: | 06:57 |
| fabbione | each component is already splitted = less time to maintain it | 06:57 |
| daniels | the build-dep stuff has been interesting. i've been working on making x totally bootstrappable (an own-time effort) upstream, which has been interesting. | 06:57 |
| fabbione | example: fonts and docx | 06:57 |
| fabbione | docs | 06:57 |
| daniels | going to set up sbuild, possibly with w-b, to rampage through and see how broken my xlibs b-ds are | 06:57 |
| fabbione | i upload them once and i can forget about them | 06:57 |
| daniels | they should be pretty good | 06:57 |
| mdz | yes, fonts and docs seem fine | 06:58 |
| mdz | nothing build-depends on those | 06:58 |
| fabbione | instead if i have them in the same source i still need to spend time to check that they didn't break anything | 06:58 |
| daniels | mdz: last i saw, there were a couple of font b-ds | 06:58 |
| === mdz runs away | ||
| daniels | mdz: but they appear to have largely died in the arse now. mercifully. | 06:58 |
| fabbione | mdz: a fix in libfoo bar that doesn't change the API/ABI | 06:58 |
| fabbione | i can upload libfoo without having to upload 100MB of updates for everybody | 06:59 |
| fabbione | a security fix in the server will not require to upload fonts | 06:59 |
| fabbione | see.. there are a lot of good things behind it | 06:59 |
| fabbione | daniels: btw.. i got libX11 to compile fine | 07:00 |
| Mitario | wow, security updates! | 07:01 |
| Mitario | ^^ | 07:01 |
| mdz | I understand the benefits of having the packages split, but it seems to be costing you a lot of complexity to do it now, rather than later | 07:01 |
| fabbione | mdz: not at all and not anymore | 07:01 |
| fabbione | mdz: it was difficul to create the first 2/3 packages | 07:01 |
| daniels | fabbione: congrats | 07:02 |
| mdz | fabbione: ok, I believe you :-) | 07:02 |
| fabbione | mdz: now it's almost a copy of a template and that's it | 07:02 |
| daniels | fabbione: i'm still beating you though :P | 07:02 |
| daniels | unfortunately that system still has a /usr/X11R6 | 07:02 |
| daniels | s/that/this/ | 07:02 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes. we have been discussing this problem a lot on irc yesterday and the day before | 07:02 |
| fabbione | the issue is where we go and store stuff like include files | 07:03 |
| fabbione | there are more issues than benefits doing a rename | 07:03 |
| fabbione | mdz: and take into account that i am also forward-porting patches from xfree86 at the same time. | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: that is time consuming | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: but i already "killed" the server that had tons of them | 07:04 |
| mdz | I assume it will be easier to get patches upstream in x.org than xfree86? | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: and other big bits here and there | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: daniels' problem :P | 07:04 |
| fabbione | mdz: for example most of changes to the build system are confined into the DebianMaintainer section of the Imake file | 07:05 |
| fabbione | that is safe for upstream to merge | 07:05 |
| fabbione | instead of spreading changes all over the place | 07:05 |
| fabbione | mdz: i also ported most of the sanity checks from Xfree86 into X.org | 07:08 |
| fabbione | like the patch-audit and MANIFEST checks | 07:08 |
| fabbione | so that makes the development a bit slower but much much more clean | 07:08 |
| daniels | fabbione: thing is, we'll need to do this migration anyway | 07:24 |
| daniels | fabbione: there will be no x11r6.9 | 07:24 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: yes i understand that. | 07:25 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| fabbione | daniels: i have one big concern at the moment | 07:26 |
| cc | hmm, maybe i should ask here... on PPC, where does warty enable sysctl calls for mouse button emulation? i.e. write something sane in /etc/sysctl.conf | 07:26 |
| fabbione | is that we are switching tree and reorganizing the layout | 07:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: imho it's a bit too much in one shot | 07:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: we can plan that for grumpy | 07:26 |
| daniels | it's a big shot, but it's going to be just as much pain for two things in two stages | 07:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: i have been checking a few things | 07:27 |
| fabbione | and killing X11R6 is very very danegerous | 07:27 |
| fabbione | specially because X.org doesn't have full control on these directories yet | 07:27 |
| fabbione | the only way out is to create transitional packages for a bunch of things like groff, tetex-bin and others | 07:27 |
| fabbione | that will decuplicate our work load | 07:28 |
| fabbione | dpkg-deb: building package `libx11-6' in `../libx11-6_6.8.1-0+SVN_i386.deb'. | 07:28 |
| fabbione | dpkg-deb: building package `libx11-dev' in `../libx11-dev_6.8.1-0+SVN_i386.deb'. | 07:28 |
| fabbione | YUMMY | 07:28 |
| fabbione | daniels: btw... all my packages are lintian clean too :-) | 07:29 |
| fabbione | they all miss one thing only | 07:29 |
| fabbione | called copyright file | 07:29 |
| fabbione | that will be strictly depends on what we decide for point 6 of the debian clause for Xprint | 07:30 |
| fabbione | + fonts | 07:30 |
| fabbione | daniels: you can check -r19 commit and following thread | 07:30 |
| fabbione | but both Overfiend and I agree in killing Xprint out of X.org, since Drew agreed in maintaing on his own | 07:31 |
| fabbione | bbl | 07:33 |
| daniels | errr ... | 07:35 |
| daniels | roland is using xorg as his main xprint development tree | 07:35 |
| daniels | as much as I'd prefer xprint to just crawl into a hole and die in general, apparently x.org is the most up-to-date X tree there is | 07:35 |
| daniels | fabbione: btw, last time I checked, the only real significant package using X11R6 was gsfonts-x11 | 07:36 |
| daniels | fabbione: i think it needs to be done ... by the time hoary is released, upstream will already be into r7, basically | 07:36 |
| === shlomil [~shlomi@212.199.219.184.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: you miss the point.. one thing is using X11R6.. | 07:49 |
| fabbione | another thing are all the packages like groff that depends on stuff that stores thing in X11R6 | 07:49 |
| daniels | those can be reasonably trivially fixed | 07:49 |
| fabbione | we build-dep on groff and tetex-bin that pulls in x stuff | 07:49 |
| fabbione | daniels: as i said above... | 07:49 |
| daniels | we only build-dep on those for documentation building | 07:49 |
| fabbione | we need a bunch of transitional packages | 07:49 |
| daniels | why? if we do right we nuke that b-d altogether | 07:50 |
| fabbione | daniels: do right what? not building the documentation? | 07:50 |
| daniels | so if we have a separate source package that provides docs, right | 07:51 |
| daniels | and this is built independently from the radeon driver, or whatever | 07:51 |
| daniels | we can pull the transition off nciely | 07:51 |
| daniels | this is what modularity's about :) the docs are just another random package | 07:51 |
| fabbione | daniels: it is another random package till a certain point | 07:52 |
| daniels | (personally I'd just prefer to see them on a website somewhere, but there you go) | 07:52 |
| daniels | yeah ... | 07:52 |
| fabbione | daniels: we have to ship documentation | 07:52 |
| fabbione | daniels: if upstream switches to R7 the problem is "solved" | 07:53 |
| fabbione | daniels: they change -> we kill | 07:53 |
| daniels | upstream is already changing | 07:53 |
| fabbione | right now we have the same name schema and doesn't make it easier | 07:53 |
| daniels | unless something goes horribly wrong, april we'll have r7, and it will be all modular | 07:53 |
| fabbione | daniels: april is not now | 07:53 |
| daniels | yeah ... but if we change, then when upstream changes, it's less pain then | 07:53 |
| daniels | yes, but the upstream development is already moving that way | 07:54 |
| fabbione | daniels: it's the other way around this time :P | 07:54 |
| daniels | and it's already moving to modularity | 07:54 |
| daniels | if we keep going like this, we end up in another 4.2/4.3 situation where it's horribly painful to catch up | 07:54 |
| fabbione | see this | 07:54 |
| daniels | if we get ourselves slightly ahead of the eight-ball now, we don't have to worry so much | 07:54 |
| fabbione | now: | 07:54 |
| fabbione | upstream: X11R6 us: X11R6 | 07:54 |
| fabbione | upstream rename to: R7 or whatever | 07:55 |
| fabbione | justdave: we kill it | 07:55 |
| fabbione | ehm | 07:55 |
| fabbione | us ^ | 07:55 |
| daniels | what's dave got to do with it? :) | 07:55 |
| fabbione | completition | 07:55 |
| daniels | yeah, I see bthat | 07:55 |
| daniels | but we'll be ahead of upstream in this case | 07:55 |
| fabbione | right now there is too much collision | 07:55 |
| daniels | that means less pain later ... come hoary release time we can just release hoary and that's fine | 07:55 |
| fabbione | daniels: i understand that | 07:55 |
| daniels | i don't see too much collision at all | 07:55 |
| daniels | i just think we have a golden opportunity spending two weeks hacking together, and we can do a lot of stuff in that time | 07:56 |
| fabbione | daniels: ok.. we kill X11R6.. where do we store include files? | 07:56 |
| daniels | /usr/include/X11 | 07:56 |
| fabbione | daniels: wrong. See policy | 07:56 |
| daniels | all the includes are <X11/Xutil.h>, et al | 07:56 |
| daniels | it doesn | 07:56 |
| daniels | er | 07:56 |
| daniels | it doesn't actually violate policy | 07:56 |
| fabbione | yes it does | 07:56 |
| daniels | i've been down that road and checked it out | 07:56 |
| daniels | thoroughly. and asked other people. and been assured it's ok. :) | 07:56 |
| fabbione | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.8.7 | 07:56 |
| daniels | yeah | 07:57 |
| fabbione | Packages must not provide or install files into the directories /usr/bin/X11/, /usr/include/X11/ or /usr/lib/X11/. | 07:57 |
| daniels | iirc i asked mdz this in about june, and he said it was fine for warty | 07:57 |
| fabbione | see.. there is a NOT | 07:57 |
| fabbione | daniels: that will make our packages not importable into debian for a long while | 07:57 |
| fabbione | and i seriously don't want that | 07:57 |
| daniels | oh sorry, I was thinking of FHS. but anyway, it's been cleared with mdz. we can not worry about it for hoary, and we can get policy changed in debian. | 07:58 |
| daniels | ok, hm, reading policy either the authors are on drugs or can't write clearly | 07:58 |
| fabbione | daniels: you can ask Kamion | 07:58 |
| daniels | my interpretation -- look at the first paragraph, where it says that packages are encouraged to transition out of /usr/X11R6 -- is that it's ok for base X to use it | 07:58 |
| daniels | but not for other stuff to use /usr/include/X11 | 07:59 |
| fabbione | he was deeply involved in that discussion | 07:59 |
| daniels | because everyone uses <X11/Xutil.h> or whatever, so there's not much other | 07:59 |
| daniels | way | 07:59 |
| daniels | yeah, and also the last train to where I'm going for the weekend leaves soon. no more trains tonight or tomorrow, so alas I must fly. | 07:59 |
| daniels | email me if there's anything else | 07:59 |
| daniels | Kamion: comments on the discussion above? | 07:59 |
| daniels | seeya | 07:59 |
| fabbione | nahh i am going to work on the house today | 07:59 |
| fabbione | cya | 07:59 |
| fabbione | gotta fix the bathroom | 07:59 |
| === paulproteus [~paulprote@h-67-102-97-191.mclnva23.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| paulproteus | Psst, is support for NIS or Kerberos planned? I want to deploy Ubuntu in the JHU ACM computing club, but we need it to work with our central login system. | 08:06 |
| bob2 | ubuntu includes kerberos and nis support. | 08:11 |
| paulproteus | bob2: I can't seem to find it in the documentation. Where is it talked about, and how would I enable it? | 08:15 |
| bob2 | it's the same as in Debian. | 08:15 |
| paulproteus | Ah, okay. Maybe I'll install it on a cluster machine tomorrow and just poke at it, then. (-: | 08:15 |
| doko | lamont: the live CD does work in safe mode only, in the default mode X cannot find any valid screens, and the OS starts to shut down/restart immediately. | 08:33 |
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| fabbione | isn't debhelper supposed to install a postinst file if there is none by default and it creates a .postinst.debhelper one? | 09:33 |
| doko | it creates the posinst in the DEBIAN dir only, not in debian | 09:34 |
| fabbione | doko: the problem is that there is no postinst at the end of the process in the installed package | 09:35 |
| doko | dh_installdeb is called for this package? | 09:36 |
| fabbione | dh_installdeb -a | 09:36 |
| fabbione | yes | 09:36 |
| === SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| doko | dh_installdeb -a -v ? | 09:37 |
| fabbione | dh_installdeb -a -v | 09:38 |
| fabbione | install -o 0 -g 0 -d debian/libfs6/DEBIAN | 09:38 |
| fabbione | install -o 0 -g 0 -d debian/libfs-dev/DEBIAN | 09:38 |
| fabbione | it simply doesn't install them... | 09:39 |
| fabbione | well i will have to create a default postinst | 09:39 |
| doko | strange, but dh_listpackages -a -v shows the packages? | 09:41 |
| fabbione | yes | 09:42 |
| fabbione | if i stick a fake postinst it works | 09:42 |
| fabbione | no it doesn't | 09:42 |
| fabbione | HMMMM | 09:42 |
| fabbione | it install the postinst but there is no #DEBHELPER# replacement | 09:43 |
| fabbione | this is so weird | 09:44 |
| fabbione | #!/bin/sh | 09:45 |
| fabbione | #DEBHELPER# | 09:45 |
| fabbione | exit 0 | 09:45 |
| fabbione | i don't see anything wrong in this | 09:45 |
| fabbione | the result is a file like that one with no #DEBHELPER# | 09:45 |
| fabbione | and nothing inside from the .postinst.debhelper | 09:45 |
| fabbione | doko: do you have any idea? | 09:51 |
| fabbione | i am in compat 4 | 09:52 |
| fabbione | but that should only help | 09:52 |
| fabbione | 3 is the minimum required to generate the .debhelper for libs | 09:52 |
| fabbione | and yes i call dh_makeshlibs and all that nice stuff :-) | 09:54 |
| doko | you use postinst, or <package>.postinst? and <package>.postinst.debehelper is created? | 09:55 |
| fabbione | i use <package>.postinst | 09:55 |
| fabbione | yes <package>.postinst.debehelper is always created | 09:56 |
| fabbione | according to doc if i remove <package>.postinst | 09:56 |
| fabbione | <package>.postinst.debehelper should be installed automatically | 09:56 |
| fabbione | but it's not | 09:56 |
| fabbione | it's like debhelper is fux0red | 09:56 |
| fabbione | anyway.. | 09:56 |
| fabbione | i need to go now | 09:56 |
| fabbione | and start to work on the house | 09:56 |
| doko | put the package somewhere, although I leave for the Berlinux now. | 09:57 |
| fabbione | thanks dude | 09:57 |
| fabbione | doko: monday stuff :P | 09:57 |
| doko | see you | 09:57 |
| Kamion | cc: /etc/sysctl.conf is a conffile, so it's just done at build-time in the package that owns it (procps, I think) | 10:20 |
| Kamion | daniels,fabbione: I think it's fine for X to use /usr/include/X11 directly, if that's what turns out to be convenient; that part of policy is there to serve X, not the other way round | 10:20 |
| Kamion | daniels,fabbione: however, given the historical fact of the /usr/include/X11 symlink, I feel you might be in for less dpkg-related pain if you just left it as a symlink forever | 10:21 |
| cc | Kamion: thanks. i need to perform an installation and take a look at procps then. we didn't know if we should get it in the installer or the kernel, so were looking for ideas :) | 10:21 |
| Kamion | well, the installer doesn't have mouse support (yet ...) | 10:21 |
| cc | its a case of in the installer, you'll never need mouse support. was wondering how it was done afterward... | 10:22 |
| sabdfl | mornin' | 10:23 |
| Kamion | cc: oh, we will | 10:24 |
| Kamion | but I'll hack that whatever way's most expedient when the time comes ... | 10:25 |
| cc | Kamion: oh, cool. i was asking mainly for ideas on how we're going to handle it on fedora/ppc | 10:26 |
| Kamion | ifneq (,$(wildcard debian/sysctl.conf.$(DEB_HOST_ARCH))) | 10:37 |
| Kamion | cat debian/sysctl.conf.$(DEB_HOST_ARCH) >> $(CURDIR)/debian/procps/etc/sysctl.conf | 10:37 |
| Kamion | endif | 10:37 |
| Kamion | and debian/sysctl.conf.powerpc has the obvious fragment | 10:37 |
| === cenerentola [~cenerento@ppp-82-84-140-79.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| cenerentola | hello | 10:56 |
| cenerentola | sorry but if i "modprobe toshiba_acpi" and it doesnt say anything... what's it trying to tell me? | 10:57 |
| paulproteus | Are there plans to support automatically noticing existing NTFS and/or FAT32 partitions and mounting them automatically? | 11:10 |
| === jc-denton [~jc@zux173-061.adsl.green.ch] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jc-denton | is "please test" the live cd? | 11:13 |
| paulproteus | Yup. | 11:13 |
| Kamion | paulproteus: at some point probably yes | 11:15 |
| jc-denton | thx | 11:15 |
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| paulproteus | Kamion: Okay. I'm thinking of features for my http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/TeachingUbuntu mini-course. | 11:21 |
| paulproteus | Okay, off to bed for me now. | 11:23 |
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| plovs | anybody in the plone wiki? | 11:59 |
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| bob2 | plovs: what do you mean? | 12:11 |
| plovs | i am playing around with the wiki on the plone site, some other devs probably are as well, i have some questions | 12:26 |
| plovs | hornbeck, awake? | 12:27 |
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| fabbione | sabdfl: morning :-) | 01:32 |
| sabdfl | hey fabbione | 01:33 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yes, i understand that really.. but i don't feel like it's a good idea to do it right now | 01:33 |
| plovs | sabdfl, does lu do irc? | 01:36 |
| sabdfl | plovs: yes, lulu | 01:36 |
| plovs | sabdfl, is she the best person to bug about zwiki? | 01:37 |
| mjg59 | Hmm. Little progress with the craptop. | 01:38 |
| fabbione | doko: that problem seems to be strictly related to X. Branden did a workaround in Xfree86 too. | 01:38 |
| fabbione | doko: so clearly it is either debhelper that is broken or joeyh/branden decided that way. i will have to dig into it | 01:39 |
| mjg59 | I'm confused. It points the wakeup vector at the wakeup code, but never actually executes any of it | 01:39 |
| nasdaq4088 | sorry, but I was wondering what type of internet connection you guys have? at what speed do you download the ubuntu cd? how many kb/s ? | 01:39 |
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| amu | nasdaq4088: 100Mbit; downloadspeed 3MB/sec. download takes, 2,30 min. ; @home 3Mbit, 350kb/sec download takes 30-45min. | 01:49 |
| nasdaq4088 | phew! | 01:50 |
| nasdaq4088 | you must be working for british telecom | 01:51 |
| amu | nope :) | 01:51 |
| Keybuk | 350Kbpss is suspiciously 2500Mebps ... <g> | 01:51 |
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| Keybuk | gah | 01:52 |
| === Keybuk mops the coffee out of his keyboard | ||
| amu | Keybuk: hehe | 01:53 |
| fabbione | YESSS!! | 01:53 |
| fabbione | finally | 01:53 |
| nasdaq4088 | amu: that means it takes 1sec to download an mp3 | 01:53 |
| fabbione | ok.. now i need to focus on the house | 01:54 |
| fabbione | later guys! | 01:54 |
| amu | nasdaq4088: downloading ? no way it waste diskspace, i listen "online" | 01:54 |
| fabbione | have a nice weekend! | 01:54 |
| amu | fabbione: greetings to GF ;) | 01:54 |
| nasdaq4088 | bye fabbione | 01:54 |
| nasdaq4088 | you mean you download wow amu that is awesome | 01:55 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: I'm tracking down some of the things that the ACPI problem /isn't/ | 01:56 |
| jdub | acpi=force fixes pipka's toshiba kernel problem (making it inordinately slow) | 01:57 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Yeah. We're going to have to work through more of that stuff. | 01:57 |
| mjg59 | On the bright side, I now have working ACPI on the X40 without having to use any kernel arguments | 01:58 |
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| Keybuk | mjg59: *nods*, it feels like the hardware wakes up but the software doesn't | 01:58 |
| jdub | mjg59: is any of that b0rkness usefully detectable? | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Not very, at the moment | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: I think it's probably much the same problem that I have here - the hardware doesn't start executing the code that's supposed to be sitting at the wakeup vector | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | I have one idea left, but it's going to be a bitch to implement | 02:01 |
| Keybuk | is there any particular reason it wouldn't? | 02:01 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Well, three main possibilities: | 02:02 |
| mjg59 | 1) The suspend sequence hasn't set the hardware up properly | 02:02 |
| mjg59 | 2) The hardware loses the wakeup vector | 02:02 |
| mjg59 | 3) The hardware overwrites the memory that the wakeup code is in | 02:03 |
| mjg59 | Currently, Linux tends to put the wakeup code in the first few K of physical RAM | 02:03 |
| mjg59 | I'd prefer it to be a few hundred further up | 02:03 |
| Keybuk | yeah, I tried back at Debconf to persuade bdale to get me a dialogue with the guy at HP who actually wrote the ACPI support in the thing to see whether he could help -- but didn't have any joy. Is odd, because the ACPI support of the laptop is otherwise flawless. | 02:05 |
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| mjg59 | I'm in touch with someone at Intel at the moment | 02:05 |
| mjg59 | We're working through the obvious stuff | 02:06 |
| mjg59 | I've got a handy board with LEDs on that plugs into the parallel port, which makes life easier | 02:06 |
| Keybuk | heh, not got one of them | 02:07 |
| mjg59 | A parallel port? | 02:07 |
| mjg59 | Or a board? | 02:07 |
| mjg59 | It's kind of cool - there's no way to attach a POST card to laptops, so they do their POST numbers over the parallel port | 02:08 |
| mjg59 | It flashes all over the place whenever you reboot | 02:08 |
| Keybuk | either :p | 02:11 |
| === play [~gilles@lns-vlq-31-nce-82-253-163-227.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| play | #linux | 02:13 |
| play | sorry :) | 02:13 |
| play | i'm testing IRC :) | 02:13 |
| play | bye | 02:13 |
| hornbeck | plovs: ping! | 02:17 |
| plovs | hornbeck, pong! | 02:19 |
| hornbeck | plovs: whats up | 02:19 |
| plovs | hornbeck, reading up on Quick reStructuredText | 02:20 |
| hornbeck | cool, I planed on doing that today also | 02:20 |
| hornbeck | planned | 02:20 |
| plovs | hornbeck, more difficult then moin but more powerfull as well | 02:20 |
| plovs | hornbeck, looking forward to use it | 02:21 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I can't wait | 02:21 |
| plovs | hornbeck, it is not really a wiki though, it is a cms with a wiki plugin, but who cars :) | 02:22 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I have not even got to really look through it, but from what I saw I liked | 02:22 |
| plovs | hornbeck, read: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html | 02:23 |
| hornbeck | nice | 02:23 |
| Keybuk | I wish python on rockery wouldn't keep segfaulting | 02:24 |
| plovs | hornbeck, adding pages is simple, folders as well, pictures i do not yet get (look in howtos how i don't get it) | 02:24 |
| plovs | hornbeck, if you find out how to make a home-page let me know | 02:24 |
| hornbeck | plovs: Are you going to start reformatting pages from the wiki to put over on the new site, next week | 02:25 |
| hornbeck | I did not understand that part of the emails | 02:25 |
| === mjg59 hacks the memory allocation to raise the wakeup address | ||
| Keybuk | (though I suspect this is really a result of shutil.rmtree being on total crack and eating GB of memory to work out what to remove, *sigh* ) | 02:27 |
| hornbeck | plovs: brb getting food | 02:28 |
| plovs | hornbeck, i don't know will this playground be the real wiki, next week? then we can move some stuff lthough all the moin stuff will be incorperated automatically | 02:28 |
| hornbeck | plovs: It will be incorperated automatically? | 02:33 |
| plovs | hornbeck, yes | 02:33 |
| hornbeck | plovs: That is great | 02:34 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I was not sure if we where going to have to redo it all :-) | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck, plovs: hi guys | 02:34 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl: hello | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | shouldn't have to redo anything | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | maybe work on structure a little bit | 02:34 |
| hornbeck | that will be great | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | the new wiki has more organisational features | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | just Moin tables are a problem | 02:34 |
| hornbeck | it should be no problem just working on formatting it | 02:35 |
| sabdfl | are the two of you the ones playing in that area on the site at the moment? | 02:35 |
| jdub | sabdfl: can we standardise on a certain format? | 02:35 |
| plovs | sabdfl, it looks really nice, after you get the hang of it | 02:35 |
| sabdfl | jdub: will make a strong recommendation | 02:35 |
| sabdfl | plovs: sure does :-) | 02:35 |
| jdub | sabdfl: i'm going to cry if we have ReST, moin, html, etc... ;) | 02:35 |
| sabdfl | jdub: i *think* we will recommend (a) ReST, (b) html | 02:35 |
| hornbeck | jdub: so would I | 02:35 |
| plovs | jdub, i vote for ReST it rules, no html, the site will look a mess | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | we can probably automatically convert moin to ReST | 02:36 |
| plovs | can we export rest to docbook? | 02:36 |
| hornbeck | Rest is looking good | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | plovs: some things you can only do in html | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | and I *think* you can embed html in ReST | 02:36 |
| jdub | can you-- ah | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | <div class="portalMessage"> is fun | 02:36 |
| hornbeck | html, is always needed alittle in webpages | 02:37 |
| sabdfl | see the home page for the banner i put on there this morning | 02:37 |
| plovs | sabdfl, where is documentation for this stuff? <div class="portalMessage"> | 02:37 |
| sabdfl | plovs: plone | 02:38 |
| sabdfl | i think we should be *very* strict with html embedded | 02:38 |
| sabdfl | as plovs says, it can become a mess | 02:38 |
| === plovs must read plone | ||
| plovs | can you make an admin group with the 'rights' to do html the rest uses ReST? | 02:39 |
| Keybuk | "After reading about Ubuntu I have decided to include it into DesktopOS.com as one of the Linux Operating Systems we follow. | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | The review by JL helped, and some other news I read. | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | This is the first GNOME distro on DesktopOS.com" | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | heh | 02:40 |
| jdub | haha | 02:40 |
| jdub | rawk | 02:40 |
| mjg59 | I see oGo is back in #gnome-hackers, too | 02:41 |
| jdub | mjg59: turned up the other day | 02:41 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: register backme.org ? :) | 02:41 |
| jdub | must've been inspired by the nokia work | 02:41 |
| jdub | he's already imported atlantis | 02:41 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, he seems keen on webcore | 02:41 |
| sabdfl | Keybuk: naaaaiiice | 02:42 |
| plovs | hornbeck, i have to go, i'll be back tonight | 02:42 |
| hornbeck | plovs: I am leaving for work in a sec also | 02:42 |
| hornbeck | talk later | 02:42 |
| plovs | hornbeck, see ya! | 02:43 |
| hornbeck | bye | 02:43 |
| mjg59 | Arse. Right, that makes no difference | 02:43 |
| Keybuk | no difference to? | 02:46 |
| srbaker | okay, i'm trying an ubuntu install again on my lapto | 02:48 |
| srbaker | p | 02:48 |
| srbaker | it'd better work this time! | 02:48 |
| srbaker | where is the ubuntu porn? | 02:49 |
| Keybuk | elmo's getting oiled up as we speak | 02:49 |
| jdub | srbaker: apt-get install ubuntu-calendar | 02:50 |
| === jdub goes for dinner | ||
| Keybuk | jdub: s/apt-get/aptitude/ | 02:50 |
| jdub | Keybuk: i don't do aptitude yet | 02:50 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Resume | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | aptitude will install recommends as well, and does dep tracking | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: doesn't it work for you already? | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | Putting the waking vector at 256K rather than 4K | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | Not on the craptop | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | or did you just break it completely? :p | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | craptop? | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | The C3 PoS | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | ah, heh | 02:51 |
| Keybuk | may I test? | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | I've got one more thing to try here, then I'd be interested if you could test my test kernel | 02:52 |
| mjg59 | It'll probably make no difference, but... | 02:52 |
| Keybuk | okies | 02:53 |
| srbaker | does that install the porno login screen? | 02:54 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c55.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | that login screen is available, just select the HumanCircle theme | 02:55 |
| __daniel | hai | 02:55 |
| srbaker | ahh | 02:56 |
| srbaker | it should be the default. | 02:56 |
| srbaker | hopefully ubuntu doesn't break on my lappy this tiem | 02:58 |
| Keybuk | for various reasons the community felt it shouldn't be the default | 02:58 |
| srbaker | well the community was wrong. | 02:59 |
| srbaker | :) | 02:59 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/acpikernel | 03:01 |
| sabdfl | glad to see the :-) in there | 03:01 |
| srbaker | mjg59, what's that kernel for? i'm having acpi trouble with my lappy | 03:01 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: looks crap in a browser, wheres the penguin? | 03:02 |
| sabdfl | ;-) | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | srbaker: Attempts to deal with complete failure to resume | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | sabdfl: apt-get install uml ... that should associate application/x-linux-kernel and boot with it | 03:04 |
| Keybuk | ps. I'm kidding ... I hope | 03:04 |
| srbaker | mjg59, ahh. the problem i'm having is i have to do acpi=force | 03:07 |
| srbaker | has anyone else heard of gnome starting, but the splash screen not showing? | 03:08 |
| srbaker | it seems that gnome-session was hanging on me | 03:08 |
| mjg59 | srbaker: acpi=force depends on the date of your BIOS | 03:08 |
| srbaker | mjg59, right. my bios is pre-1999 | 03:09 |
| srbaker | it's a toshiba lappy that i hate | 03:09 |
| mjg59 | The safe thing to do is use apm instead | 03:09 |
| srbaker | mjg59, but if acpi is off, I/O slows down so badly that it takes about 3 minutes to boot | 03:11 |
| srbaker | and usability is basically nill | 03:11 |
| srbaker | nil even | 03:12 |
| srbaker | i said: toshiba lappy. that means "suck" | 03:12 |
| mjg59 | That's likely to be indicative of something else that's wrong | 03:12 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: nope, unsurprisingly that didn't help | 03:12 |
| srbaker | mjg59, figured. but acpi=force fixes it | 03:13 |
| srbaker | mjg59, what woudl you suggest looking at ? | 03:14 |
| lamont | doko: hardware specks for the liveCD-X-issue machine? | 03:14 |
| srbaker | oh, and i tried to boot warty RC2 live cd on an HP Digital Entertainment Center, and it wouldn't because the DEC sucks balls. | 03:14 |
| srbaker | and i almost got myself writ up for it, too. | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | srbaker: Not sure | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | Probably interrupt related | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | if it's a Tosh, defenestration seems a good plan <g> | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Yeah, thought not. Same behaviour as before? | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: yup | 03:15 |
| srbaker | mjg59, oh, i notice that it sometimes disables irq 11 | 03:16 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, defenestration? | 03:16 |
| mjg59 | Heh. Well, I'm running out of ideas. | 03:16 |
| mjg59 | srbaker: Throw through a window. Opening the window is optional. | 03:16 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: it printed some stuff on sleep about addresses, I guess that was your debugging? | 03:17 |
| srbaker | mjg59, well, perhaps when i get a new lappy. right now, this Toshiba is all i can afford | 03:17 |
| srbaker | and that's mostly because it was almost free. | 03:17 |
| srbaker | i have kids and their welfare bum mother to support. | 03:17 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Yeah | 03:18 |
| srbaker | anyways. the install process goes well. | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | The second and third should be the same | 03:18 |
| srbaker | it's starting gnome that gave me problems | 03:18 |
| Keybuk | they were | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | Cool | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | So the contents of the wakeup vector are set and still correct immediately before suspend | 03:19 |
| srbaker | what did you guys use to build the arty live cd? i need to build debian-based live cds, are there good tools available? | 03:19 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: morphix | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: heh, that sounds sane :) | 03:21 |
| lamont | morning | 03:21 |
| lamont | srbaker: writing the 'what we did for a livecd' page on the wiki is on my todo list for next week | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | there's a few notable things I've noticed | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | 1) the screen remains "off", not just black | 03:22 |
| srbaker | lamont, thank you | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | 2) after a short while not resuming, the fans increase in power as it gets warm (even with a kernel with no fan control, so this is hardware doing it I guess) | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | 3) the caps lock key works with acpi_sleep=s3_mode, but nothing else | 03:23 |
| srbaker | lamont, i have a medium-sized contract to put my kiosk software on my livecd | 03:23 |
| srbaker | erm, a livecd. | 03:23 |
| srbaker | that's actually how i got the toshiba lappy. | 03:24 |
| lamont | ah/ | 03:24 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: ? | 03:24 |
| lamont | note that the liveCD should work on a subset of the hardware that the install CD does (different hw detection missese some stuff - will be merged in hoary | 03:25 |
| mjg59 | If you pass acpi_sleep=s3_mode, you get working caps lock? | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | well, the key turns the light on and off | 03:25 |
| mjg59 | That's interesting | 03:25 |
| mjg59 | Because that's under software control | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | isn't it under hardware control for a small period? | 03:25 |
| mjg59 | BIOS control | 03:26 |
| amu | hey lamont | 03:26 |
| mjg59 | That's weird. And only under acpi_sleep=s3_mode ? | 03:27 |
| Keybuk | well, I've noticed it twice, the second was under s3_mode | 03:27 |
| Keybuk | and I've tried it under other times, and it didn't help | 03:27 |
| === Keybuk shall try now, hold on | ||
| mjg59 | Hmm. Very strange. | 03:27 |
| sabdfl | Keybuk: nice idea | 03:28 |
| srbaker | lamont, my current kiosk software installs to harddrive using mondo. :P | 03:28 |
| sabdfl | is there a uml firefox plugin? | 03:28 |
| srbaker | lamont, the hardware for the kiosks are all identical. hw detection isn't important | 03:28 |
| sabdfl | <duck> | 03:28 |
| === cenerentola [~cenerento@ppp-82-84-140-79.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | The only thing the acpi_sleep things do is twiddle what the kernel does to the video hardware | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | sabdfl: ask mdz, it's one of his fetishes | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: that's what I thought | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | it's a radeon, so it's known fucking iritating | 03:28 |
| lamont | srbaker: bootcd might do the trick for a fixed config... | 03:30 |
| lamont | although I've never used that | 03:31 |
| === lamont wanders off to meet the day, bbl | ||
| mjg59 | Keybuk: In general, using vgacon makes life massively easier | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | I understood the new thought on this was to vgapost in the radeon init sequence and use radeonfb | 03:32 |
| srbaker | lamont, well, fixed config is the "main" usage, but i want it to be demonstrable on random hw | 03:33 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: nope, can't replicate that now | 03:34 |
| === sid77 [~sid77@ppp-158-136.30-151.libero.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Weird | 03:36 |
| sid77 | hi, all :) | 03:36 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Yeah, you /can/ do it that way. But that's not a very generic solution. | 03:36 |
| amu | srbaker: easy way, cdbackup + installed discover. | 03:36 |
| Keybuk | does the video init happen before or after where you put the beeping ? | 03:36 |
| mjg59 | Getting this working with vesafb is going to be a real nightmare | 03:36 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: After | 03:36 |
| mjg59 | But I've taken the beeping out now | 03:36 |
| Keybuk | ok, was wondering whether that was hard-crashing it or something | 03:37 |
| Keybuk | if I suspend with caps lock on, the light doesn't light up again on wake-up | 03:37 |
| srbaker | geh. time to job hunt today. | 03:37 |
| srbaker | ttyl | 03:37 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | Hmm. vesafb-ng might be a better bet. | 03:39 |
| Keybuk | and suspended with all fans on, and non of them spin up on wakeup | 03:40 |
| === ctalkep [~ctalkep@212.21.138.21] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| ctalkep | hi there? | 03:40 |
| ctalkep | any chance that daf is here? | 03:40 |
| carlos | ctalkep: perhaps later | 03:40 |
| ctalkep | carlos, thanks. can't find him for so l ong:) | 03:41 |
| === sid77 is now known as sid77_ | ||
| carlos | but I'm not sure if he will enter into this channel | 03:41 |
| carlos | hmm, he's here | 03:41 |
| carlos | :-P | 03:41 |
| carlos | but away | 03:41 |
| ctalkep | well | 03:42 |
| carlos | so as soon as he wakes up... | 03:42 |
| === sid77_ is now known as sid77 | ||
| ctalkep | sleepy guy:) | 03:42 |
| ctalkep | wanted to get info on translation contribution | 03:42 |
| ctalkep | if anyne here can help, i won't stalk him so hard:) | 03:43 |
| carlos | ctalkep: which kind of info do you need? | 03:45 |
| ctalkep | as basic as possible, i wanted to start the bulgarian translation, and need to know where do i start | 03:45 |
| __daniel | carlos, ctalkep: good starting point would be the debian bulgarian l10n status, wouldnt it? | 03:46 |
| carlos | __daniel: yes | 03:47 |
| carlos | ctalkep: We don't have (yet) ready the translation tools to handle translations directly | 03:47 |
| __daniel | ctalkep, bg is the code for bulgaria? | 03:48 |
| ctalkep | yep | 03:48 |
| carlos | but as __daniel suggest, you could start now contributing to Debian, GNOME and other projects directly because we will get also those translations back | 03:48 |
| __daniel | http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/bg_BG | 03:48 |
| ctalkep | oh, did not know that | 03:49 |
| carlos | ctalkep: as soon as we have our l10n infrastructure in place we will announce it in our mailing list and website | 03:50 |
| ctalkep | oh, this info is pretty enough for me | 03:51 |
| ctalkep | so i'll just start with the debian then | 03:51 |
| __daniel | ctalkep, cool you'd like to contribute! :-) | 03:51 |
| ctalkep | yes:) | 03:53 |
| ctalkep | btw | 03:54 |
| ctalkep | i manage several sites and i would like to put on some banners etc. where do i get, like, website ki? | 03:55 |
| ctalkep | i mean website kit | 03:55 |
| __daniel | bye everyone | 03:56 |
| ctalkep | bye | 03:57 |
| srbaker | okay, this is *fucked* up | 04:08 |
| srbaker | i logged into my ubuntu laptop for the first time 15 minutes ago | 04:08 |
| srbaker | it *just* loaded the trash can and workspace switcher | 04:08 |
| srbaker | something's not right | 04:08 |
| srbaker | when i click the computer menu, it takes about 30 seconds for it to show up | 04:09 |
| srbaker | anyone else having these problems? | 04:12 |
| sid77 | afaik ubuntu desktop isn't so rich of icon, isn't it right to just load the trash and the switcher? | 04:14 |
| sid77 | (in the lower menu) | 04:15 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: try booting with noapic and pci=noacpi | 04:15 |
| mjg59 | srbaker: It would help if you could check whether this is happening with all processes | 04:20 |
| srbaker | mjg59, yeah, after rebooting, it appears that everything is slowed down | 04:22 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i have acpi=force on | 04:22 |
| srbaker | just a second | 04:23 |
| Keybuk | srbaker: that's nice ... that's not what I asked :o) | 04:23 |
| Keybuk | noapic turns off APIC support, APIC != ACPI | 04:23 |
| Keybuk | pci=noacpi turns off ACPI for IRQ routeing ... on a laptop as old as yours, that might be bust | 04:23 |
| mjg59 | 2.6.9 has the useful feature that it doesn't enable the APIC if the BIOS disabled it | 04:24 |
| mjg59 | Which is the sane behaviour | 04:24 |
| Keybuk | heh, Linux in "ignoring BIOS" shocker | 04:24 |
| mjg59 | <2.6.9 will force enable the APIC by default. Which is, uh, stupid. | 04:24 |
| Keybuk | though strangely my desktop's APIC isn't disabled by BIOS and needs noapic | 04:25 |
| Keybuk | whereas my laptop's is disabled by BIOS, but enabling it isn't harmful | 04:26 |
| kylem | have there been any reports of lockups during the postinstall run of apt? | 04:26 |
| Keybuk | kylem: you sure it's locking up, and not just thinking? | 04:27 |
| srbaker | okay, i lied. the rest of the system was fine, the gnome was busted | 04:27 |
| kylem | Keybuk, numlock no longer works. | 04:27 |
| srbaker | with noapic and pci=noacpi, the whole system slows down | 04:27 |
| kylem | it seems to die at "Preconfiguring" just after "Extracting templates" but before making any package-specific output. | 04:28 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, still no change. | 04:30 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, i tried with noapic and nolapic, ntohing better. | 04:30 |
| srbaker | Keybuk, sarge seems to work fine, if i use acpi=force and nothing else | 04:31 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck, plovs: we're updated the wiki software | 04:36 |
| sabdfl | also, removed the ability to add non-wiki pages to /wiki/ | 04:36 |
| sabdfl | and i'm moving some of the non-wiki stuff that was in /wiki/ to /support/documentation/ | 04:36 |
| srbaker | okay, this is going to have to wait | 04:36 |
| sid77 | bye averyone | 04:45 |
| === cenerentola [~cenerento@ppp-82-84-140-79.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === robertj [~robertj@66-188-77-153.cpe.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| robertj | hey all. Is there a problem with SDL's configuration? Battle for Wesnoth does not give sound unless you elevate your permissions | 05:04 |
| robertj | a sudo true && wesnoth is enough to get the job done | 05:05 |
| tseng | search/file @ bugzilla for that | 05:06 |
| plovs | sabdfl, are you updating or did you finish it and where did my pages go? (i don't care i was just playing,but they're gone) | 05:28 |
| sabdfl | plovs: not gone | 05:28 |
| sabdfl | i wrote ^^^ that i was moving them | 05:28 |
| sabdfl | we only want wiki pages in the /wiki/ directory, thanks for finding that bug :-) | 05:29 |
| sabdfl | so we've fixed it now you can only create wiki pages in there | 05:29 |
| sabdfl | and i've moved your folders to /support/ and /support/documentation/ | 05:29 |
| plovs | sabdfl, ok | 05:29 |
| sabdfl | plovs: please take care with what you write on the site, it can get published immediately | 05:29 |
| sabdfl | did you have a cold? | 05:30 |
| sabdfl | "Workig with video on your Ububtu Desktop" >:-) | 05:30 |
| plovs | sabdfl, yes, this is eastern europe it's already cold here :) | 05:35 |
| sabdfl | ;-) | 05:35 |
| sabdfl | this is london it's always wet here | 05:35 |
| plovs | sabdfl, where should we work, in support or in wiki, or both? | 05:36 |
| sabdfl | plovs: i think it's best to develop new stuff in the wiki | 05:36 |
| sabdfl | because every member can edit content there | 05:36 |
| sabdfl | more open | 05:36 |
| sabdfl | then when the content is stable, move it into the doc area | 05:37 |
| plovs | sabdfl, ok, can we have a toplink to the wiki then? | 05:38 |
| sabdfl | toplink? | 05:38 |
| plovs | sabdfl, at the top of the page it says: ubuntu community support planet <EMPTY> | 05:39 |
| plovs | sabdfl, <EMPTY> could be wiki | 05:39 |
| sabdfl | which page? | 05:41 |
| sabdfl | plovs: ^? | 05:42 |
| plovs | on:site-edit press:home, now i can't get to the wiki | 05:43 |
| sabdfl | plovs: yes, i took it out of the "published" state | 05:45 |
| sabdfl | until monday when we have moved the content across successfully | 05:45 |
| sabdfl | you can still get there with site-edit.../wiki/ | 05:46 |
| plovs | sabdfl, sure, thanks | 05:49 |
| sabdfl | enjoy | 05:49 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| plovs | sabdfl, one last bug, there is edit, preview but no cancel??? | 05:50 |
| plovs | sabdfl, on the wiki that is | 05:51 |
| sabdfl | plovs: hmmm.... i don't think it saves it if you don't click save | 05:52 |
| sabdfl | but you're right, there should be a cancel button | 05:52 |
| plovs | sabdfl, where do i send these kind of questions ubuntu-devel ubuntu-doc, irc? | 05:54 |
| plovs | sabdfl, hmmm and I can no longer create folders in wiki, but i can in support? | 05:57 |
| === bob2 [rob@202.60.66.46] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sabdfl | plovs: hmm... not sure what the situation is with the wiki and folders | 06:07 |
| plovs | sabdfl, i have add page but not like i used to have add folder, etc. I made a page private, then I could no longer access it ??? | 06:10 |
| plovs | sabdfl, permissions seem messed up | 06:10 |
| sabdfl | plovs: this is all new, we'll have to work out the permissions | 06:11 |
| sabdfl | first, which page, i'll restore it | 06:11 |
| plovs | in the root of the wiki, called page.2004 i hadn't named it, i tried not saving as a way to cancel...doesn't work :) anyway i go have dinner | 06:15 |
| sabdfl | plovs: can't see it, i think it was never saved | 06:19 |
| === ddaa [~ddaa@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| mdz | sabdfl: the plone wiki doesn't seem to support the hierarchical moin structure properly | 06:49 |
| mdz | I can't seem to link to the parent of a page, or another page relative to it | 06:49 |
| mdz | it just reverts my change | 06:50 |
| sabdfl | mdz: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewWikiAnnouncement/ | 06:50 |
| sabdfl | we have a limited number of options | 06:51 |
| sabdfl | for the moment i think it best just to shorten and rename | 06:51 |
| sabdfl | WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule -> WartyReleaseSchedule | 06:51 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c55.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| __daniel | re | 06:52 |
| sabdfl | good news though, we got moin table support unexpectedly soon | 06:52 |
| mdz | I'd gladly give up tables for hierarchies | 06:53 |
| sabdfl | we can sort of get them | 06:53 |
| sabdfl | we can add new wikis inside old ones possibly | 06:53 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | Hoary kickoff meeting Monday, 2004-10-25 1600UTC | ||
| sabdfl | but the namespaces are then b0rked | 06:53 |
| sabdfl | so, inside a subsidiary wiki you would not be able to refer to pages in the parent folder | 06:54 |
| === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sabdfl | mdz: maybe we can use interwiki links for the hierarchies | 07:09 |
| sabdfl | but it would mean that every link in a subsidiary directory to a page in the top dir would need to be like MainWiki:PageName | 07:09 |
| sabdfl | unless we did some funky acquisition voodoo | 07:09 |
| sabdfl | also, this new wiki has the concept of wiki structure separate from namespace | 07:10 |
| sabdfl | try clicking on "wiki contents" | 07:10 |
| sabdfl | you can reparent a page by going to the page, putting the new parent page name in the field at the bottom and selecting "reparent" | 07:10 |
| mdz | sabdfl: sounds scary | 07:14 |
| sabdfl | mdz: not really | 07:15 |
| mdz | sabdfl: where is the documentation for ReStructuredText? | 07:15 |
| sabdfl | try it | 07:15 |
| mdz | ah, I see it | 07:15 |
| sabdfl | links are a little funky | 07:15 |
| plovs | sabdfl, what about folders? | 07:15 |
| sabdfl | plovs: no go for the moment | 07:15 |
| mdz | it uses all of the same markup as moinmoin, but with _entirely different meanings_ :-) | 07:16 |
| sabdfl | stevea is workiing on a python script to suck 'n blow :-) | 07:16 |
| sabdfl | mdz: but of course | 07:16 |
| sabdfl | so we may have the stuff automatically transferred | 07:16 |
| sabdfl | how deep are the hardware folders? | 07:16 |
| mdz | just 2 levels, I think | 07:16 |
| sabdfl | need to flatten the namespace graciously | 07:17 |
| sabdfl | mdz: the reparenting thing is entirely independent of content | 07:17 |
| plovs | sabdfl, could i get the python script from stevea, when he is ready? | 07:17 |
| mdz | sabdfl: yeah, it's just that someone just spent a lot of volunteer time to break it down and make a hierarchy out of it :-/ | 07:18 |
| sabdfl | mdz: not really anything we can do about it, except break the wiki spec in a different way to moin's | 07:18 |
| sabdfl | plovs: to run it? it will only need to be run once | 07:18 |
| plovs | sabdfl, i would like to make a script to export stuff from to wiki to docbook, i could use his code as foundation | 07:19 |
| sabdfl | plovs ok ping him directly | 07:20 |
| sabdfl | but i don't think he will be parsing the content, except for the namespace issue | 07:20 |
| sabdfl | mainly it will just be "fetch from here, post to there" | 07:20 |
| plovs | sabdfl, ok | 07:21 |
| === bob2 [rob@202.60.66.46] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | sabdfl: how should we go about publishing USNs on the website? Should we use the Errata facility? | 07:27 |
| sabdfl | mdz: yes, let's create a dedicated folder for them, which we can also publish as rss | 07:28 |
| mdz | sabdfl: how do I do that? | 07:28 |
| sabdfl | no idea :-) | 07:28 |
| mdz | I see how to create errata, but not a new folder | 07:28 |
| sabdfl | https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/search_rss?sort_on=modified&sort_order=descending&path=/ubuntu/support/documentation&portal_type=HelpCenterFAQFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterHowToFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterTutorialFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterLinkFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterErrorReferenceFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterGlossary | 07:29 |
| sabdfl | fiddle with that to do the rss | 07:29 |
| sabdfl | where do you want the folder? | 07:29 |
| mdz | dunno. support? | 07:29 |
| mdz | or maybe even at top level | 07:30 |
| sabdfl | hmm... security feels like it deserves its own top level folder, but that way lies madness | 07:30 |
| sabdfl | stop DOING that! :-) | 07:30 |
| mdz | many projects have security as a top-level item because it's important to be able to find it quickly | 07:30 |
| mdz | though, it's under a 'support' heading | 07:31 |
| sabdfl | ok, let's create it in support | 07:31 |
| mdz | e.g., www.debian.org and www.freebsd.org both have a hyperlink from the top level, but it's nested under 'support' | 07:31 |
| === x4m [~max@106-105.241.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | redhat has a shortcut from the top | 07:32 |
| plovs | sabdfl, 1) do we have homepages 2) pages are signed with a number not a name | 07:32 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I think we've found The Wart, by the way | 07:32 |
| sabdfl | plovs: (1) maybe, (2) bug :-) | 07:32 |
| mdz | a patch was inadvertently dropped in the last kernel rev | 07:32 |
| sabdfl | i'd like the answer to be (1) yes and (2) fixed, will know this week | 07:33 |
| mdz | a trivial one which fixed a bunch of apic/IRQ/etc. problems | 07:33 |
| sabdfl | plovs: ping lulu monday? | 07:33 |
| sabdfl | mdz: The Wart? | 07:33 |
| sabdfl | kernel? | 07:33 |
| mdz | sabdfl: the one that would make me wish I could go back in time and fix it | 07:33 |
| plovs | sabdfl, ok | 07:33 |
| sabdfl | so let's fix it for the cd's | 07:33 |
| mdz | eek | 07:34 |
| mdz | I think it's madness at this point to change what "Ubuntu 4.10" means | 07:34 |
| sabdfl | wait a week, it can be 4.11 | 07:34 |
| === sabdfl ducks | ||
| === mdz digs around for his "sabdfl says no point releases" quote | ||
| sabdfl | out of curiousity what's the bug, what's the fix, where did we introduce it? | 07:35 |
| sabdfl | no point releases, but there's no point in printing the cd's with a known fixable Wart | 07:35 |
| sabdfl | we'll find a way | 07:36 |
| sabdfl | is the install cd maxed out in size? | 07:36 |
| mdz | sabdfl: we were building the kernel with a particular option enabled | 07:36 |
| mdz | which was flaky | 07:36 |
| sabdfl | which one? | 07:36 |
| mdz | CONFIG_PCI_MSI | 07:36 |
| mdz | it is =y and should be =n | 07:36 |
| sabdfl | doh | 07:36 |
| sabdfl | is the install cd full? | 07:37 |
| mdz | it was disabled in 2.6.8.1-9, with good results | 07:37 |
| mdz | and apparently it was inadvertently re-enabled in -16 | 07:37 |
| mdz | the install cd is not full | 07:37 |
| sabdfl | bad day down under? | 07:37 |
| mdz | dunno | 07:37 |
| sabdfl | i'm thinking one way out would be to put the updated kernel package on the install cd in a separate dir | 07:38 |
| sabdfl | but i guess there's no hook to find and install it other tha an erratum sheet | 07:38 |
| sabdfl | and that would be a usability mess | 07:38 |
| mdz | better to put it in warty-updates, in my opinion | 07:38 |
| plovs | sabdfl, my last wiki-question, then i'll leave it for monday but quick restructured text doesn't work on my side? | 07:38 |
| sabdfl | doesn't work how? | 07:39 |
| sabdfl | mdz: your call, but i'm not at all averse to rev'ing the shipit cd with warty-updates content | 07:39 |
| plovs | sabdfl, look at: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/EditingWikiPages | 07:39 |
| mdz | sabdfl: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2662 | 07:40 |
| mdz | has some details | 07:40 |
| sabdfl | plovs: check the format list at the bottom of the page | 07:40 |
| sabdfl | you have selected StructuredText | 07:40 |
| sabdfl | which is not the same as ReStructured Text | 07:40 |
| mdz | sabdfl: herbert proposed sneaking it into a security update, but I consider that evil in the extreme | 07:41 |
| === sabdfl blinks and stares | ||
| sabdfl | so we have warty-updates and warty-security? | 07:43 |
| sabdfl | which appears in the sources.list file? | 07:44 |
| mdz | warty-security is in sources.list by default, warty-updates is not | 07:44 |
| mdz | changing behaviour in a security update would be a serious breach of trust, especially this early | 07:45 |
| sabdfl | warty-updates makes sense to me for a more long-lived release | 07:46 |
| sabdfl | or, a release of a sort that will have rare releases | 07:46 |
| sabdfl | like if we did an "enterprise grade" | 07:46 |
| sabdfl | but, the flip side is that maybe this is the basis of that effort | 07:46 |
| sabdfl | the -updates archive becomes the place where warty matures to become warty-enterprise | 07:47 |
| mdz | right | 07:47 |
| sabdfl | there's no rule that says that the CD we ship has to be exactly the same as the download | 07:48 |
| sabdfl | our options w.r.t. the cd and iso are as follows: | 07:48 |
| sabdfl | do nothing, continue to ship iso and cd as they were on 20/10 | 07:49 |
| sabdfl | ship the cd with a fixed kernel | 07:49 |
| sabdfl | update both | 07:49 |
| cenerentola | does anybody here know what fnfx are? | 07:49 |
| sabdfl | is it very importnt that the through-the-mail cd be the same as the download one? | 07:50 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I feel that it is, yes | 07:51 |
| sabdfl | mdz: ok, the errata content type is special | 07:51 |
| plovs | sabdfl, i should leave it for monday but search as i may i don not see format at the bottom of any of my pages not edit, not contents, not view, monday->lulu? | 07:51 |
| mdz | we cause a lot of confusion if we don't have a single blob that we call Warty | 07:51 |
| sabdfl | plovs: edit the page | 07:51 |
| sabdfl | at the bottom, near the save button, are some radio buttons | 07:51 |
| sabdfl | with the format | 07:51 |
| mdz | of course we could do point releases :-) | 07:51 |
| sabdfl | you currently have it on structured text | 07:52 |
| sabdfl | so, about errata, it at the moment only shows up inside the help center errata thing | 07:52 |
| sabdfl | which is support/documentation/errata | 07:52 |
| mdz | well, we should have a page for security info | 07:53 |
| mdz | which would link to errata | 07:53 |
| plovs | sabdfl, sorry no buttons here, you are probably admin or something | 07:54 |
| sabdfl | mdz: yes | 07:54 |
| plovs | sabdfl, i'll log out and back in | 07:55 |
| sabdfl | do you want to be able to categories the USNs? | 07:55 |
| mdz | sabdfl: not really | 07:57 |
| mdz | just enumerate them | 07:57 |
| mdz | sabdfl: should we have one group of errata for security, and another for warty-updates stuff? | 07:57 |
| sabdfl | mdz: yes, that sounds good | 07:57 |
| sabdfl | and just one stream for all releases | 07:58 |
| mdz | ok, let me know when there is a place for me to put the USNs | 07:58 |
| mdz | sabdfl: we should have a feed which has only security | 07:59 |
| plovs | sabdfl, no, no buttons under edit, next to save, only a void, emptyness | 07:59 |
| mdz | I hope plone lets us do that | 07:59 |
| sabdfl | plovs: weird | 07:59 |
| plovs | sabdfl, something with permissions probably, you want my login? | 07:59 |
| sabdfl | mdz: shiny | 08:02 |
| sabdfl | plovs: could be | 08:02 |
| sabdfl | mdz: what's the first USN number? | 08:03 |
| sabdfl | or a url? | 08:03 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I was creating it just now, should I not? | 08:03 |
| mdz | the first is USN-1-1 | 08:03 |
| sabdfl | mdz: creating it in the documentation/usn folder? | 08:04 |
| mdz | sabdfl: correct | 08:04 |
| sabdfl | you're too fast :-) | 08:04 |
| sabdfl | go ahead | 08:04 |
| sabdfl | shiny that it asks you the product versions | 08:04 |
| sabdfl | regarding the streams: yes, one for security, one for updates | 08:05 |
| sabdfl | each stream covers all releases | 08:05 |
| mdz | sabdfl: the 'upload a file' bit for the body doesn't seem to work | 08:06 |
| mdz | I end up with an empty body | 08:06 |
| mdz | (sounds uncomfortable) | 08:06 |
| sabdfl | as opposed to an empty mind | 08:07 |
| sabdfl | how on earth you survive in LA i don't know | 08:07 |
| sabdfl | maybe i'm just always there with the wrong crowd | 08:07 |
| plovs | sabdfl, in /support/ it all works... including quick restructured text, but /wiki/ is broken | 08:07 |
| sabdfl | hey! next time i go i can have a pony tail too! | 08:07 |
| mdz | sabdfl: entirely possible | 08:07 |
| sabdfl | plovs: ok, please work with bradb and lulu on monday | 08:08 |
| mdz | there are many social strata, and most of them are unsavory | 08:08 |
| === sabdfl feels all warm as a result | ||
| mdz | I find that's true of most places anyway | 08:08 |
| sabdfl | you don't have to look very far | 08:08 |
| sabdfl | but LA has something extra in that regard | 08:08 |
| sabdfl | shiver | 08:09 |
| plovs | sabdfl, ok | 08:09 |
| sabdfl | plovs: sorry i can't solve the problem, just don't know plone that well | 08:09 |
| sabdfl | if at all | 08:09 |
| plovs | sabdfl, that makes two, then ;) | 08:10 |
| mdz | published usn-1-1 and usn-2-1 | 08:11 |
| sabdfl | plovs: would you like me to fix that specific page for you? | 08:11 |
| __daniel | is there an announcement on warty-security? | 08:11 |
| amu | 2 :) | 08:12 |
| mdz | __daniel: the mailing list is ubuntu-security-announce, and they were sent ~12 hours ago | 08:12 |
| sabdfl | mdz: somehow usn1 is in usn2 | 08:12 |
| mdz | i'm just putting them on the website now | 08:12 |
| mdz | sabdfl: yeah, cut and paste error, already fixed | 08:12 |
| mdz | sabdfl: you're too fast :-) | 08:12 |
| __daniel | mdz, ok, thanks | 08:12 |
| sabdfl | just tryin' to keep up | 08:12 |
| plovs | sabdfl, maybe clean up the mess of empty pages, leave only good content, i'll work in support until monday | 08:13 |
| plovs | sabdfl, thanks | 08:14 |
| sabdfl | plovs: hell don't thank me, i must thank you for your work | 08:14 |
| sabdfl | docs are a great contribution | 08:15 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I wrote an overview "how to get help" doc in the wiki | 08:17 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I think it should have a prominent place on the website, as a starting point for support | 08:17 |
| mdz | perhaps as a how-to, with a quick link from somewhere high up | 08:17 |
| sabdfl | mdz: go ahead and add it to the home page | 08:18 |
| mdz | restructuredtext MUST be joking | 08:23 |
| mdz | System Message: WARNING/2 (<string>, line 2) | 08:23 |
| mdz | Title underline too short. | 08:23 |
| mdz | I can't seriously be required to match the length of the underline to the length of the text | 08:23 |
| mdz | it's displayed in a proportionally spaced font, even! | 08:24 |
| === Keybuk [~scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | sabdfl: should we really recommend this as the format for new pages? | 08:25 |
| mdz | the restructuredtext guys have been hanging out with the arch guys | 08:26 |
| Keybuk | rofl, them's fighting words?! | 08:27 |
| sabdfl | mdz: we've now got moin too | 08:30 |
| mdz | I was just following the instructions, which say that restructured is the way to go | 08:30 |
| mdz | but I beg to differ | 08:30 |
| sabdfl | written before we go moin tables | 08:30 |
| mdz | HTML is easier than this | 08:30 |
| sabdfl | yes, restructured felt like a pain at first to me too | 08:31 |
| sabdfl | but it has a certain inflexibility that appeals to my inner fascist | 08:31 |
| sabdfl | still, that's no reason to foist it on the masses | 08:31 |
| sabdfl | in this case | 08:31 |
| sabdfl | so let's hammer that out with the experts on monday | 08:32 |
| mdz | what should I do with this howto for now? | 08:32 |
| Keybuk | is there any particular reason we're using a new wiki, and didn't just get jeff to do a moin theme to make it look like the rest of the site? | 08:32 |
| mdz | Keybuk: this way it can be searched, etc. with the rest of the site | 08:32 |
| sabdfl | keybuk: *much* better integrated | 08:32 |
| sabdfl | mdz: html if you prefer | 08:32 |
| sabdfl | h1/2/3 and p | 08:32 |
| mdz | the wiki seems mostly OK | 08:32 |
| Keybuk | but we've lost all the changes information; which was the bit I used to read | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | keybuk, you can still read it | 08:33 |
| mdz | my understanding is that it will come back | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | turns out the new one has it already | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | um... you may have to be a manager to see it | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | nup | 08:33 |
| mdz | I'll just leave it as-is and unpublished until we have a standard high-level markup | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | history tab | 08:33 |
| sabdfl | default to just showing the last diff in pretty colours but you can get more | 08:34 |
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| Keybuk | ah ok, that's not too bad then | 08:35 |
| sabdfl | and we get backlinks | 08:35 |
| sabdfl | and renaming | 08:35 |
| mdz | one thing I could live without, is white text on a red background | 08:35 |
| sabdfl | and much better search | 08:35 |
| plovs | kupu is nice but it creates html | 08:35 |
| sabdfl | white text on red background? | 08:35 |
| sabdfl | try the black text on red background :-) | 08:36 |
| mdz | sabdfl: the active tab, the headings on navigation and recent items | 08:36 |
| sabdfl | the theme is all temporary | 08:36 |
| mdz | the currently highlighted navigation item | 08:36 |
| mdz | ok | 08:36 |
| sabdfl | i want to get te content and function right first | 08:36 |
| Keybuk | the login stuff never seems to work right :( | 08:36 |
| sabdfl | then we can get a design done and implemented quickly | 08:36 |
| sabdfl | Keybuk: use the magic url | 08:36 |
| Keybuk | well, I click login, put in the details, and get an error page back | 08:36 |
| sabdfl | there are cacheing issues with just loggin straight in | 08:36 |
| Keybuk | then some pages I visit thing I'm logged in, then some don't | 08:37 |
| === mdz -> lunch | ||
| === trondaso [~trondaso@82.164.160.196] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| sabdfl | does adobe have a recent acrobat for linux? | 08:41 |
| plovs | sabdfl, define decent | 08:42 |
| __daniel | sabdfl, isnt it the one marillat has packaged? (you mean the reader) | 08:42 |
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| sabdfl | recent | 08:42 |
| sabdfl | the reader, yes | 08:42 |
| plovs | sabdfl, it works, but the windows one is way better | 08:42 |
| sabdfl | ok | 08:42 |
| amu | cooooool forrest gump runs on tv, i love this film | 08:56 |
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| Mitario | hello everyone | 08:57 |
| Mitario | damn, ubuntu livecd is awsome :) | 08:57 |
| __daniel | hai Mitario | 08:58 |
| amu | Mitario: *g* | 09:01 |
| __daniel | oh... no glademm-package? :-( | 09:04 |
| __daniel | who should i adress with my "wish"? :-) | 09:08 |
| __daniel | ubuntu-users? | 09:11 |
| cenerentola | sorry what are the main characteristic of the live thing? | 09:33 |
| cenerentola | you could at leat pretend to listen | 09:43 |
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| cenerentola | sorry the stupid question but how can i contribute with the installer translation? | 09:54 |
| cenerentola | kamion: got time for an humble question? | 09:58 |
| Keybuk | it's Saturday night, I doubt he's anywhere near a computer | 10:02 |
| cenerentola | keybuk: you are... so who/where should i ask/look to for the installer translation | 10:03 |
| Keybuk | http://people.debian.org/~seppy/d-i/translation-status.html | 10:04 |
| Keybuk | http://svn.debian.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/i18n/i18n.html | 10:04 |
| Keybuk | http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/translation-hints | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | those three links look good | 10:05 |
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| srbaker | can someone here help me go through my lappy problems and troubleshoot them? | 10:20 |
| sivang | srbaker : you might try and ask this on #ubuntu | 10:21 |
| Keybuk | indeed, #ubuntu and ubuntu-users is the right place for tech-support and problems | 10:23 |
| Keybuk | much busier with more people likely to be able to help | 10:23 |
| sivang | hi keybuk, what's up? | 10:24 |
| Keybuk | price of beetroot | 10:24 |
| sivang | what? | 10:24 |
| Keybuk | it's up | 10:24 |
| sivang | what is beetroot? | 10:24 |
| Keybuk | purple | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | you have it in salads | 10:25 |
| sivang | oh | 10:27 |
| sivang | :) | 10:27 |
| sivang | so all RC stuff are done (if to judge by the channel's topic) ? :) | 10:27 |
| Keybuk | yes, any RC bugs now open are open against hoary | 10:28 |
| sivang | I see. well, good :) | 10:28 |
| sivang | Have you had a nice doze of beers post release? | 10:28 |
| Keybuk | yeah, a few of us had a bit of a party in London | 10:29 |
| sivang | ah that's great, shame I am way far on the middle east :)) | 10:30 |
| sivang | Kamion : around? | 11:22 |
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| jdub | hrm | 11:43 |
| srbaker_ | jdub, seems to be working now. | 11:43 |
| srbaker_ | jdub, who's fault is the Human theme for Gnome? | 11:43 |
| jdub | whichwhat? | 11:43 |
| srbaker_ | jdub, my lappy | 11:44 |
| jdub | which part of the theme? | 11:44 |
| srbaker_ | oh, the theem is fine except for the window border colour | 11:44 |
| srbaker_ | diarrhea brown. | 11:45 |
| srbaker_ | i had to switch to Glider | 11:47 |
| srbaker_ | yaye. i found the ubuntu porjhn | 11:48 |
| srbaker_ | now, isn't there ubuntu porn for the splash screen as well? | 11:48 |
| jdub | /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ | 11:48 |
| srbaker_ | how do i change my splash screen? | 11:49 |
| __daniel | srbaker_, with gtweakui :-) | 11:49 |
| jdub | in gconf, /apps/gnome-session/ | 11:49 |
| __daniel | oh.. not packaged in ubuntu | 11:49 |
| srbaker_ | oh | 11:50 |
| __daniel | (i was referring to gtweakui) | 11:50 |
| chrisa | Add sid sources, pin and install from sid ;) | 11:50 |
| __daniel | chrisa, that's a good idea - would that be a general "course of action" if i'd like to contribute packages (if someone was interested in that at all) | 11:52 |
| chrisa | I'm the last person to ask | 11:53 |
| __daniel | :-) | 11:54 |
| srbaker_ | god damn. | 11:54 |
| srbaker_ | if i wanted sid sources, i'd use sid :P | 11:55 |
| __daniel | well... first i wanted to reply to you and then i changed my mind and wanted to ask the rest of the channel too | 11:55 |
| __daniel | chrisa, thanks for the clue :-) | 11:55 |
| srbaker_ | is it considered a bug that emacs isn't anywhere to be found in the app menu? | 12:00 |
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