[12:00] <plovs> hornbeck: yes just logged in
[12:00] <hornbeck> ok, can you send me the copy?
[12:01] <plovs> hornbeck: of marks mail?
[12:03] <mjg59> My collection of people to shoot is getting larger.
[12:03] <hornbeck> nice
[12:04] <plovs> hornbeck: kind of slowish
[12:04] <hornbeck> plovs: You are?
[12:05] <plovs> hornbeck: that plone thingie
[12:05] <hornbeck> plovs: can you send me the mail though so I can know what to do
[12:06] <hornbeck> I have not seen it
[12:06] <plovs> hornbeck: ok
[12:06] <hornbeck> thanks
[12:08] <plovs> hornbeck: on its way
[12:08] <hornbeck> thanks
[12:17] <mdz> gah, old forum messages flooding the list
[12:18] <tseng> thom: sure thing
[12:18] <mdz> mjg59: reading debian-devel again?
[12:24] <plovs> hornbeck: did you login its a little tricky
[12:26] <mjg59> Rock.
[12:26] <mjg59> I can get video back after resume without needing to fuck about with acpi_sleep paramaters now
[12:29] <tseng> thom: sent
[12:29] <tseng> thom: actually no its not.. anyone have thoms email handy?
[12:31] <hornbeck> plovs was not really that tricky
[12:31] <plovs> are you in the right place *not* www.etc
[12:32] <tseng> hornbeck: you were correct, i removed mono core from my repo
[12:32] <tseng> hornbeck: it should be in universe now
[12:32] <hornbeck> ok
[12:32] <hornbeck> I will add that part to the beagleinstall page
[12:32] <tseng> cool
[12:32] <hornbeck> I get mail all day about that page
[12:32] <hornbeck> I did not relize that many people wanted to use beagle right now
[12:32] <tseng> sorry if i caused you trouble
[12:32] <plovs> hornbeck: it's not even close to as easy as moin, but it looks better
[12:32] <hornbeck> no trouble at all
[12:32] <tseng> it should just work
[12:32] <tseng> from warty
[12:37] <hornbeck> ok it is updated now
[12:37] <hornbeck> going to eat
[01:58] <hornbeck> mdz: is enrico the documentation team leader?
[02:04] <mdz> hornbeck: I don't think a leader has been appointed yet
[02:05] <hornbeck> ahhh
[02:05] <hornbeck> so I can still fight for power
[02:05] <hornbeck> hahahahahhahahha
[02:05] <hornbeck> ops
[02:05] <mdz> you guys are operating on pure adrenaline :-)
[02:05] <hornbeck> yes we are
[02:05] <hornbeck> ops should have been opps
[02:05] <hornbeck> I am off to work on some more stuff
[02:06] <mdz> opps should be oops :-)
[02:06] <hornbeck> opps :-)
[03:23] <jdub> morning boys and girls
[03:24] <lifeless> what about hermaphrodites? You  sexist you
[03:25] <jdub> they're boys and girls
[03:31] <Mitario> hehe, lol
[03:31] <Mitario> hi jdub
[03:32] <amu> hey jdub 
[03:32] <tseng> hi
[03:32] <tseng> jdub: you have an email addy for thom on hand?
[03:32] <Mitario> anyone knows of a cool rocking python complient build-system? :)
[03:33] <tseng> Mitario: um.. was that a troll?
[03:33] <Mitario> not really :)
[03:33] <Mitario> just a question :)
[03:34] <Mitario> damn i have to learn to use less smilies
[03:37] <Mitario> i'm writing a gnome python app here, and I want to have a nice build system
[03:37] <Mitario> or should I just write it myself
[03:38] <jdub> tseng: thom@canonical.com
[03:38] <lifeless> tseng: any old addy for thom? thom@planetarytramp.net should reach him
[03:38] <lifeless> garh, race conditions
[03:38] <tseng> i mustve fat fingered canonical
[03:38] <tseng> since i got it back
[03:39] <tseng> ah sorry, i typed two N's
[03:39] <jdub> haw haw
[03:40] <tseng> there we go.
[04:10] <hornbeck> thanks jdub, for the list
[05:42] <lamont> moo
[05:42] <Mitario> *yawns*
[05:42] <Mitario> hmm, should go to bed soon
[05:42] <hornbeck> yep
[05:42] <Mitario> it's 5:42 AM over here
[05:42] <hornbeck> nice
[05:43] <hornbeck> it is 10:43pm here
[05:43] <Mitario> but i don't wanna, i'm too busy hacking python
[05:43] <hornbeck> its amazing how people come after you when a doc is wrong in alittle spot
[05:44] <hornbeck> "why does this not work like you said it would!!!!!"
[05:45] <tuo2> hornbeck: c'est la vie
[05:45] <hornbeck> exactly
[05:47] <hornbeck> well I am off to shower
[05:47] <bob2> hornbeck: if they even read it, you're ahead of the game ;0
[05:47] <hornbeck> bob2: very true
[06:20] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:22] <mdz> morning
[06:22] <mdz> fabbione: would it be enough notice if I scheduled the hoary kickoff meeting for monday?
[06:22] <fabbione> mdz: monday is perfect
[06:22] <mdz> gerat
[06:22] <mdz> great
[06:22] <fabbione> my gf is busy with friends :-)))
[06:22] <mdz> heh
[06:22] <fabbione> and i scheduled all X day
[06:23] <mdz> wouldn't want to get anyone into trouble :-)
[06:23] <fabbione> so a meeting to break from X is cool
[06:23] <mdz> working on the X.org merge?
[06:23] <mdz> or other stuff?
[06:23] <fabbione> mdz: i already have a bunch of packages with path forwarded from xfree86
[06:23] <fabbione> s/path/pacthes
[06:24] <fabbione> i have been working almost 15 hours a day last week
[06:24] <fabbione> ah i need to send the activity reports :-)
[06:24] <mdz> it was a long week
[06:24] <fabbione> yeah
[06:24] <fabbione> but full of good results
[06:25] <mdz> perhaps not as long as the preview week
[06:25] <mdz> but long :-)
[06:26] <fabbione> mdz: www.fabbione.net/Packages.gz
[06:26] <fabbione> and i have another lib pending
[06:26] <fabbione> i plan to finish it this morning
[06:27] <fabbione> while my gf and her mother are still sleeping
[06:27] <mdz> what are all those -source- packages?
[06:28] <fabbione> mdz: X.org -> split
[06:28] <fabbione> similar to the kernel
[06:28] <mdz> Package: xorg-source-programs-xplsprinters
[06:28] <mdz> I mean, what is in that binary package^ ?
[06:29] <fabbione> it contains a tar of xc/programs/xplsprinters
[06:29] <fabbione> at the moment it's just a script that creates them
[06:29] <mdz> this is starting to sound scary :-)
[06:29] <fabbione> some of them are bogus
[06:29] <mdz> are you implying that the various source tarballs can't build by themselves?
[06:30] <fabbione> no i imply that for example xorg-source-lib-xtrans doesn't generate any binary package
[06:30] <fabbione> but it is required to build other libraries
[06:30] <fabbione> it is used in a very weird way
[06:30] <fabbione> but it's needed
[06:30] <fabbione> even if it doesn't generate binaries directly
[06:30] <fabbione> libxdmcp and libx11 build-deps on it
[06:31] <fabbione> if you are curious to see how it builds i can put the stuff up somewhere
[06:31] <fabbione> but it must be highly hidden
[06:31] <fabbione> i don't want any of the orig to leak anywhere
[06:32] <fabbione> until we are not ready for distribution
[06:34] <mdz> warty day is officially over. onward to hoary day!
[06:34] <fabbione> we have slightly more than 13 bugs now
[06:35] <mdz> I deleted the wrong item
[06:35] <fabbione> ehhehe
[06:36] <fabbione> mdz: does that Package list looks scary?
[06:37] <fabbione> night lamont
[06:37] <lamont> fabbione: night
[06:41] <fabbione> mdz: with the split we will need to pull in a couple of packages from universe
[06:41] <fabbione> mdz: at least these are the numbers i have until now
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: which ones?
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: will it always need to be packaged this way, or will it eventually be split up in a more traditional way?
[06:41] <mdz> like -dev packages
[06:41] <fabbione> mdz: rman and another one.. i can't remember
[06:41] <mdz> rman??
[06:42] <fabbione> it's required for documentation
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: the packaging system IS traditional
[06:42] <fabbione> check libfs6 for example
[06:42] <fabbione> source package is xorg-libfs -> libfs6 and libfs-dev
[06:42] <mdz> fabbione: I am talking about the "-source-" packages
[06:42] <mdz> which are build-depended on
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: they will die slowly
[06:42] <mdz> and contain source code
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: you need to see to understand
[06:42] <mdz> I am glad :-)
[06:43] <fabbione> wait a few secs
[06:43] <mdz> I understand; it is like the apache madness
[06:43] <mdz> jakarta
[06:43] <hornbeck> man how do you guys deal with people who just don't get it
[06:43] <fabbione> mdz: i dunno jakarta
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: no no.. this is much better :-)
[06:44] <mdz> hornbeck: in what context?
[06:45] <hornbeck> mdz: just venting from getting questions about stuff that I think is just common since
[06:45] <hornbeck> it will make me a better doc writer
[06:45] <hornbeck> :-)
[06:46] <mdz> hornbeck: treat their high expectations as an indication of their confidence in you
[06:46] <hornbeck> mdz: That is a good way to look at it
[06:46] <hornbeck> thanks
[06:48] <hornbeck> good night
[06:48] <mdz> night
[06:50] <fabbione> mdz: check in the usual place
[06:50] <fabbione> :)
[06:51] <fabbione> basically the concept is that as soon as each X.org components gains independency
[06:52] <fabbione> it will be killed from xorg_6.8.x
[06:52] <fabbione> and it will not produce the -source- package
[06:52] <fabbione> and source will move to the appropriate orig.tar.gz
[06:52] <fabbione> it's very simple and efficent
[06:52] <fabbione> since it requires a one time blessing from ftpmasters
[06:53] <fabbione> the first upload of the -source- will be done once basically
[06:53] <fabbione> and not touched anymore
[06:53] <fabbione> this will save a lot of bw
[06:54] <fabbione> of course.. it will be redone on major upstream releases
[06:54] <fabbione> but all the patches and small things live in the splitted packages
[06:54] <fabbione> so an upload is like a very few hunderd kb
[06:54] <fabbione> it's pure crack
[06:54] <fabbione> but it's working for me now
[06:56] <mdz> I guess I am wondering why it makes sense to split up the source packages already when the upstream source is not truly split yet
[06:56] <fabbione> mdz: preparation
[06:56] <fabbione> it will save us a lot of time later on
[06:56] <fabbione> + it is giving us an amazing overview of how the build system interacts
[06:57] <mdz> how will it save time?
[06:57] <fabbione> and how stuff build-dep on each other
[06:57] <fabbione> several points:
[06:57] <fabbione> each component is already splitted = less time to maintain it
[06:57] <daniels> the build-dep stuff has been interesting.  i've been working on making x totally bootstrappable (an own-time effort) upstream, which has been interesting.
[06:57] <fabbione> example: fonts and docx
[06:57] <fabbione> docs
[06:57] <daniels> going to set up sbuild, possibly with w-b, to rampage through and see how broken my xlibs b-ds are
[06:57] <fabbione> i upload them once and i can forget about them
[06:57] <daniels> they should be pretty good
[06:58] <mdz> yes, fonts and docs seem fine
[06:58] <mdz> nothing build-depends on those
[06:58] <fabbione> instead if i have them in the same source i still need to spend time to check that they didn't break anything
[06:58] <daniels> mdz: last i saw, there were a couple of font b-ds
[06:58] <daniels> mdz: but they appear to have largely died in the arse now.  mercifully.
[06:58] <fabbione> mdz: a fix in libfoo bar that doesn't change the API/ABI
[06:59] <fabbione> i can upload libfoo without having to upload 100MB of updates for everybody
[06:59] <fabbione> a security fix in the server will not require to upload fonts
[06:59] <fabbione> see.. there are a lot of good things behind it
[07:00] <fabbione> daniels: btw.. i got libX11 to compile fine
[07:01] <Mitario> wow, security updates!
[07:01] <Mitario> ^^
[07:01] <mdz> I understand the benefits of having the packages split, but it seems to be costing you a lot of complexity to do it now, rather than later
[07:01] <fabbione> mdz: not at all and not anymore
[07:01] <fabbione> mdz: it was difficul to create the first 2/3 packages
[07:02] <daniels> fabbione: congrats
[07:02] <mdz> fabbione: ok, I believe you :-)
[07:02] <fabbione> mdz: now it's almost a copy of a template and that's it
[07:02] <daniels> fabbione: i'm still beating you though :P
[07:02] <daniels> unfortunately that system still has a /usr/X11R6
[07:02] <daniels> s/that/this/
[07:02] <fabbione> daniels: yes. we have been discussing this problem a lot on irc yesterday and the day before
[07:03] <fabbione> the issue is where we go and store stuff like include files
[07:03] <fabbione> there are more issues than benefits doing a rename
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: and take into account that i am also forward-porting patches from xfree86 at the same time.
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: that is time consuming
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: but i already "killed" the server that had tons of them
[07:04] <mdz> I assume it will be easier to get patches upstream in x.org than xfree86?
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: and other big bits here and there
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: daniels' problem :P
[07:05] <fabbione> mdz: for example most of changes to the build system are confined into the DebianMaintainer section of the Imake file
[07:05] <fabbione> that is safe for upstream to merge
[07:05] <fabbione> instead of spreading changes all over the place
[07:08] <fabbione> mdz: i also ported most of the sanity checks from Xfree86 into X.org
[07:08] <fabbione> like the patch-audit and MANIFEST checks
[07:08] <fabbione> so that makes the development a bit slower but much much more clean
[07:24] <daniels> fabbione: thing is, we'll need to do this migration anyway
[07:24] <daniels> fabbione: there will be no x11r6.9
[07:25] <fabbione> daniels: yes i understand that.
[07:26] <fabbione> daniels: i have one big concern at the moment
[07:26] <cc> hmm, maybe i should ask here... on PPC, where does warty enable sysctl calls for mouse button emulation? i.e. write something sane in /etc/sysctl.conf
[07:26] <fabbione> is that we are switching tree and reorganizing the layout
[07:26] <fabbione> daniels: imho it's a bit too much in one shot
[07:26] <fabbione> daniels: we can plan that for grumpy
[07:26] <daniels> it's a big shot, but it's going to be just as much pain for two things in two stages
[07:27] <fabbione> daniels: i have been checking a few things
[07:27] <fabbione> and killing X11R6 is very very danegerous
[07:27] <fabbione> specially because X.org doesn't have full control on these directories yet
[07:27] <fabbione> the only way out is to create transitional packages for a bunch of things like groff, tetex-bin and others
[07:28] <fabbione> that will decuplicate our work load
[07:28] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `libx11-6' in `../libx11-6_6.8.1-0+SVN_i386.deb'.
[07:28] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `libx11-dev' in `../libx11-dev_6.8.1-0+SVN_i386.deb'.
[07:28] <fabbione> YUMMY
[07:29] <fabbione> daniels: btw... all my packages are lintian clean too :-)
[07:29] <fabbione> they all miss one thing only
[07:29] <fabbione> called copyright file
[07:30] <fabbione> that will be strictly depends on what we decide for point 6 of the debian clause for Xprint
[07:30] <fabbione> + fonts
[07:30] <fabbione> daniels: you can check -r19 commit and following thread
[07:31] <fabbione> but both Overfiend and I agree in killing Xprint out of X.org, since Drew agreed in maintaing on his own
[07:33] <fabbione> bbl
[07:35] <daniels> errr ...
[07:35] <daniels> roland is using xorg as his main xprint development tree
[07:35] <daniels> as much as I'd prefer xprint to just crawl into a hole and die in general, apparently x.org is the most up-to-date X tree there is
[07:36] <daniels> fabbione: btw, last time I checked, the only real significant package using X11R6 was gsfonts-x11
[07:36] <daniels> fabbione: i think it needs to be done ... by the time hoary is released, upstream will already be into r7, basically
[07:49] <fabbione> daniels: you miss the point.. one thing is using X11R6..
[07:49] <fabbione> another thing are all the packages like groff that depends on stuff that stores thing in X11R6
[07:49] <daniels> those can be reasonably trivially fixed
[07:49] <fabbione> we build-dep on groff and tetex-bin that pulls in x stuff
[07:49] <fabbione> daniels: as i said above...
[07:49] <daniels> we only build-dep on those for documentation building
[07:49] <fabbione> we need a bunch of transitional packages
[07:50] <daniels> why?  if we do right we nuke that b-d altogether
[07:50] <fabbione> daniels: do right what? not building the documentation?
[07:51] <daniels> so if we have a separate source package that provides docs, right
[07:51] <daniels> and this is built independently from the radeon driver, or whatever
[07:51] <daniels> we can pull the transition off nciely
[07:51] <daniels> this is what modularity's about :) the docs are just another random package
[07:52] <fabbione> daniels: it is another random package till a certain point
[07:52] <daniels> (personally I'd just prefer to see them on a website somewhere, but there you go)
[07:52] <daniels> yeah ...
[07:52] <fabbione> daniels: we have to ship documentation
[07:53] <fabbione> daniels: if upstream switches to R7 the problem is "solved"
[07:53] <fabbione> daniels: they change -> we kill
[07:53] <daniels> upstream is already changing
[07:53] <fabbione> right now we have the same name schema and doesn't make it easier
[07:53] <daniels> unless something goes horribly wrong, april we'll have r7, and it will be all modular
[07:53] <fabbione> daniels: april is not now
[07:53] <daniels> yeah ... but if we change, then when upstream changes, it's less pain then
[07:54] <daniels> yes, but the upstream development is already moving that way
[07:54] <fabbione> daniels: it's the other way around this time :P
[07:54] <daniels> and it's already moving to modularity
[07:54] <daniels> if we keep going like this, we end up in another 4.2/4.3 situation where it's horribly painful to catch up
[07:54] <fabbione> see this
[07:54] <daniels> if we get ourselves slightly ahead of the eight-ball now, we don't have to worry so much
[07:54] <fabbione> now:
[07:54] <fabbione> upstream: X11R6 us: X11R6
[07:55] <fabbione> upstream rename to: R7 or whatever
[07:55] <fabbione> justdave: we kill it
[07:55] <fabbione> ehm
[07:55] <fabbione> us ^
[07:55] <daniels> what's dave got to do with it? :)
[07:55] <fabbione> completition
[07:55] <daniels> yeah, I see bthat
[07:55] <daniels> but we'll be ahead of upstream in this case
[07:55] <fabbione> right now there is too much collision
[07:55] <daniels> that means less pain later ... come hoary release time we can just release hoary and that's fine
[07:55] <fabbione> daniels: i understand that
[07:55] <daniels> i don't see too much collision at all
[07:56] <daniels> i just think we have a golden opportunity spending two weeks hacking together, and we can do a lot of stuff in that time
[07:56] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. we kill X11R6.. where do we store include files?
[07:56] <daniels> /usr/include/X11
[07:56] <fabbione> daniels: wrong. See policy
[07:56] <daniels> all the includes are <X11/Xutil.h>, et al
[07:56] <daniels> it doesn
[07:56] <daniels> er
[07:56] <daniels> it doesn't actually violate policy
[07:56] <fabbione> yes it does
[07:56] <daniels> i've been down that road and checked it out
[07:56] <daniels> thoroughly.  and asked other people.  and been assured it's ok. :)
[07:56] <fabbione> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.8.7
[07:57] <daniels> yeah
[07:57] <fabbione> Packages must not provide or install files into the directories /usr/bin/X11/, /usr/include/X11/ or /usr/lib/X11/.
[07:57] <daniels> iirc i asked mdz this in about june, and he said it was fine for warty
[07:57] <fabbione> see.. there is a NOT
[07:57] <fabbione> daniels: that will make our packages not importable into debian for a long while
[07:57] <fabbione> and i seriously don't want that
[07:58] <daniels> oh sorry, I was thinking of FHS.  but anyway, it's been cleared with mdz.  we can not worry about it for hoary, and we can get policy changed in debian.
[07:58] <daniels> ok, hm, reading policy either the authors are on drugs or can't write clearly
[07:58] <fabbione> daniels: you can ask Kamion 
[07:58] <daniels> my interpretation -- look at the first paragraph, where it says that packages are encouraged to transition out of /usr/X11R6 -- is that it's ok for base X to use it
[07:59] <daniels> but not for other stuff to use /usr/include/X11
[07:59] <fabbione> he was deeply involved in that discussion
[07:59] <daniels> because everyone uses <X11/Xutil.h> or whatever, so there's not much other
[07:59] <daniels> way
[07:59] <daniels> yeah, and also the last train to where I'm going for the weekend leaves soon.  no more trains tonight or tomorrow, so alas I must fly.
[07:59] <daniels> email me if there's anything else
[07:59] <daniels> Kamion: comments on the discussion above?
[07:59] <daniels> seeya
[07:59] <fabbione> nahh i am going to work on the house today
[07:59] <fabbione> cya
[07:59] <fabbione> gotta fix the bathroom
[08:06] <paulproteus> Psst, is support for NIS or Kerberos planned?  I want to deploy Ubuntu in the JHU ACM computing club, but we need it to work with our central login system.
[08:11] <bob2> ubuntu includes kerberos and nis support.
[08:15] <paulproteus> bob2: I can't seem to find it in the documentation.  Where is it talked about, and how would I enable it?
[08:15] <bob2> it's the same as in Debian.
[08:15] <paulproteus> Ah, okay.  Maybe I'll install it on a cluster machine tomorrow and just poke at it, then. (-:
[08:33] <doko> lamont: the live CD does work in safe mode only, in the default mode X cannot find any valid screens, and the OS starts to shut down/restart immediately.
[09:33] <fabbione> isn't debhelper supposed to install a postinst file if there is none by default and it creates a .postinst.debhelper one?
[09:34] <doko> it creates the posinst in the DEBIAN dir only, not in debian
[09:35] <fabbione> doko: the problem is that there is no postinst at the end of the process in the installed package
[09:36] <doko> dh_installdeb is called for this package?
[09:36] <fabbione>         dh_installdeb -a
[09:36] <fabbione> yes
[09:37] <doko> dh_installdeb -a -v ?
[09:38] <fabbione> dh_installdeb -a -v
[09:38] <fabbione>         install -o 0 -g 0 -d debian/libfs6/DEBIAN
[09:38] <fabbione>         install -o 0 -g 0 -d debian/libfs-dev/DEBIAN
[09:39] <fabbione> it simply doesn't install them...
[09:39] <fabbione> well i will have to create a default postinst
[09:41] <doko> strange, but dh_listpackages -a -v shows the packages?
[09:42] <fabbione> yes
[09:42] <fabbione> if i stick a fake postinst it works
[09:42] <fabbione> no it doesn't
[09:42] <fabbione> HMMMM
[09:43] <fabbione> it install the postinst but there is no #DEBHELPER# replacement
[09:44] <fabbione> this is so weird
[09:45] <fabbione> #!/bin/sh
[09:45] <fabbione> #DEBHELPER#
[09:45] <fabbione> exit 0
[09:45] <fabbione> i don't see anything wrong in this
[09:45] <fabbione> the result is a file like that one with no #DEBHELPER#
[09:45] <fabbione> and nothing inside from the .postinst.debhelper
[09:51] <fabbione> doko: do you have any idea?
[09:52] <fabbione> i am in compat 4
[09:52] <fabbione> but that should only help
[09:52] <fabbione> 3 is the minimum required to generate the .debhelper for libs
[09:54] <fabbione> and yes i call dh_makeshlibs and all that nice stuff :-)
[09:55] <doko> you use postinst, or <package>.postinst? and <package>.postinst.debehelper is created?
[09:55] <fabbione> i use <package>.postinst
[09:56] <fabbione> yes <package>.postinst.debehelper is always created
[09:56] <fabbione> according to doc if i remove <package>.postinst
.postinst.debehelper should be installed automatically 
[09:56] <fabbione> but it's not
[09:56] <fabbione> it's like debhelper is fux0red
[09:56] <fabbione> anyway..
[09:56] <fabbione> i need to go now
[09:56] <fabbione> and start to work on the house
[09:57] <doko> put the package somewhere, although I leave for the Berlinux now.
[09:57] <fabbione> thanks dude
[09:57] <fabbione> doko: monday stuff :P
[09:57] <doko> see you
[10:20] <Kamion> cc: /etc/sysctl.conf is a conffile, so it's just done at build-time in the package that owns it (procps, I think)
[10:20] <Kamion> daniels,fabbione: I think it's fine for X to use /usr/include/X11 directly, if that's what turns out to be convenient; that part of policy is there to serve X, not the other way round
[10:21] <Kamion> daniels,fabbione: however, given the historical fact of the /usr/include/X11 symlink, I feel you might be in for less dpkg-related pain if you just left it as a symlink forever
[10:21] <cc> Kamion: thanks. i need to perform an installation and take a look at procps then. we didn't know if we should get it in the installer or the kernel, so were looking for ideas :)
[10:21] <Kamion> well, the installer doesn't have mouse support (yet ...)
[10:22] <cc> its a case of in the installer, you'll never need mouse support. was wondering how it was done afterward...
[10:23] <sabdfl> mornin'
[10:24] <Kamion> cc: oh, we will
[10:25] <Kamion> but I'll hack that whatever way's most expedient when the time comes ...
[10:26] <cc> Kamion: oh, cool. i was asking mainly for ideas on how we're going to handle it on fedora/ppc
[10:37] <Kamion> ifneq (,$(wildcard debian/sysctl.conf.$(DEB_HOST_ARCH)))
[10:37] <Kamion>         cat debian/sysctl.conf.$(DEB_HOST_ARCH) >> $(CURDIR)/debian/procps/etc/sysctl.conf
[10:37] <Kamion> endif
[10:37] <Kamion> and debian/sysctl.conf.powerpc has the obvious fragment
[10:56] <cenerentola> hello
[10:57] <cenerentola> sorry but if i "modprobe toshiba_acpi" and it doesnt say anything... what's it trying to tell me?
[11:10] <paulproteus> Are there plans to support automatically noticing existing NTFS and/or FAT32 partitions and mounting them automatically?
[11:13] <jc-denton> is "please test" the live cd?
[11:13] <paulproteus> Yup.
[11:15] <Kamion> paulproteus: at some point probably yes
[11:15] <jc-denton> thx
[11:21] <paulproteus> Kamion: Okay.  I'm thinking of features for my http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/TeachingUbuntu mini-course.
[11:23] <paulproteus> Okay, off to bed for me now.
[11:59] <plovs> anybody in the plone wiki?
[12:11] <bob2> plovs: what do you mean?
[12:26] <plovs> i am playing around with the wiki on the plone site, some other devs probably are as well, i have some questions
[12:27] <plovs> hornbeck, awake?
[01:32] <fabbione> sabdfl: morning :-)
[01:33] <sabdfl> hey fabbione
[01:33] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, i understand that really.. but i don't feel like it's a good idea to do it right now
[01:36] <plovs> sabdfl, does lu do irc?
[01:36] <sabdfl> plovs: yes, lulu
[01:37] <plovs> sabdfl, is she the best person to bug about zwiki?
[01:38] <mjg59> Hmm. Little progress with the craptop.
[01:38] <fabbione> doko: that problem seems to be strictly related to X. Branden did a workaround in Xfree86 too.
[01:39] <fabbione> doko: so clearly it is either debhelper that is broken or joeyh/branden decided that way. i will have to dig into it
[01:39] <mjg59> I'm confused. It points the wakeup vector at the wakeup code, but never actually executes any of it
[01:39] <nasdaq4088> sorry, but I was wondering what type of internet connection you guys have? at what speed do you download the ubuntu cd? how many kb/s ?
[01:49] <amu> nasdaq4088: 100Mbit; downloadspeed 3MB/sec. download takes, 2,30 min. ; @home 3Mbit, 350kb/sec download takes 30-45min.  
[01:50] <nasdaq4088> phew!
[01:51] <nasdaq4088> you must be working for british telecom
[01:51] <amu> nope :)   
[01:51] <Keybuk> 350Kbpss is suspiciously 2500Mebps ... <g>
[01:52] <Keybuk> gah
[01:53] <amu> Keybuk: hehe 
[01:53] <fabbione> YESSS!!
[01:53] <fabbione> finally
[01:53] <nasdaq4088> amu: that means it takes 1sec to download an mp3
[01:54] <fabbione> ok.. now i need to focus on the house
[01:54] <fabbione> later guys!
[01:54] <amu> nasdaq4088: downloading ? no way it waste diskspace, i listen "online" 
[01:54] <fabbione> have a nice weekend!
[01:54] <amu> fabbione: greetings to GF ;) 
[01:54] <nasdaq4088> bye fabbione
[01:55] <nasdaq4088> you mean you download wow amu that is awesome
[01:56] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm tracking down some of the things that the ACPI problem /isn't/
[01:57] <jdub> acpi=force fixes pipka's toshiba kernel problem (making it inordinately slow)
[01:57] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah. We're going to have to work through more of that stuff.
[01:58] <mjg59> On the bright side, I now have working ACPI on the X40 without having to use any kernel arguments
[01:58] <Keybuk> mjg59: *nods*, it feels like the hardware wakes up but the software doesn't
[01:59] <jdub> mjg59: is any of that b0rkness usefully detectable?
[02:01] <mjg59> jdub: Not very, at the moment
[02:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: I think it's probably much the same problem that I have here - the hardware doesn't start executing the code that's supposed to be sitting at the wakeup vector
[02:01] <mjg59> I have one idea left, but it's going to be a bitch to implement
[02:01] <Keybuk> is there any particular reason it wouldn't?
[02:02] <mjg59> Keybuk: Well, three main possibilities:
[02:02] <mjg59> 1) The suspend sequence hasn't set the hardware up properly
[02:02] <mjg59> 2) The hardware loses the wakeup vector
[02:03] <mjg59> 3) The hardware overwrites the memory that the wakeup code is in
[02:03] <mjg59> Currently, Linux tends to put the wakeup code in the first few K of physical RAM
[02:03] <mjg59> I'd prefer it to be a few hundred further up
[02:05] <Keybuk> yeah, I tried back at Debconf to persuade bdale to get me a dialogue with the guy at HP who actually wrote the ACPI support in the thing to see whether he could help -- but didn't have any joy.  Is odd, because the ACPI support of the laptop is otherwise flawless.
[02:05] <mjg59> I'm in touch with someone at Intel at the moment
[02:06] <mjg59> We're working through the obvious stuff
[02:06] <mjg59> I've got a handy board with LEDs on that plugs into the parallel port, which makes life easier
[02:07] <Keybuk> heh, not got one of them
[02:07] <mjg59> A parallel port?
[02:07] <mjg59> Or a board?
[02:08] <mjg59> It's kind of cool - there's no way to attach a POST card to laptops, so they do their POST numbers over the parallel port
[02:08] <mjg59> It flashes all over the place whenever you reboot
[02:11] <Keybuk> either :p
[02:13] <play> #linux
[02:13] <play> sorry :)
[02:13] <play> i'm testing IRC :)
[02:13] <play> bye
[02:17] <hornbeck> plovs: ping!
[02:19] <plovs> hornbeck, pong!
[02:19] <hornbeck> plovs: whats up
[02:20] <plovs> hornbeck, reading up on Quick reStructuredText 
[02:20] <hornbeck> cool, I planed on doing that today also
[02:20] <hornbeck> planned
[02:20] <plovs> hornbeck, more difficult then moin but more powerfull as well
[02:21] <plovs> hornbeck, looking forward to use it
[02:21] <hornbeck> plovs: I can't wait
[02:22] <plovs> hornbeck, it is not really a wiki though, it is a cms with a wiki plugin, but who cars :)
[02:22] <hornbeck> plovs: I have not even got to really look through it, but from what I saw I liked
[02:23] <plovs> hornbeck, read: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html
[02:23] <hornbeck> nice
[02:24] <Keybuk> I wish python on rockery wouldn't keep segfaulting
[02:24] <plovs> hornbeck, adding pages is simple, folders as well, pictures i do not yet get (look in howtos how i don't get it)
[02:24] <plovs> hornbeck, if you find out how to make a home-page let me know
[02:25] <hornbeck> plovs: Are you going to start reformatting pages from the wiki to put over on the new site, next week
[02:25] <hornbeck> I did not understand that part of the emails
[02:27] <Keybuk> (though I suspect this is really a result of shutil.rmtree being on total crack and eating GB of memory to work out what to remove, *sigh* )
[02:28] <hornbeck> plovs: brb getting food
[02:28] <plovs> hornbeck, i don't know will this playground be the real wiki, next week? then we can move some stuff lthough all the moin stuff will be incorperated automatically
[02:33] <hornbeck> plovs: It will be incorperated automatically?
[02:33] <plovs> hornbeck, yes
[02:34] <hornbeck> plovs: That is great
[02:34] <hornbeck> plovs: I was not sure if we where going to have to redo it all :-)
[02:34] <sabdfl> hornbeck, plovs: hi guys
[02:34] <hornbeck> sabdfl: hello
[02:34] <sabdfl> shouldn't have to redo anything
[02:34] <sabdfl> maybe work on structure a little bit
[02:34] <hornbeck> that will be great
[02:34] <sabdfl> the new wiki has more organisational features
[02:34] <sabdfl> just Moin tables are a problem
[02:35] <hornbeck> it should be no problem just working on formatting it
[02:35] <sabdfl> are the two of you the ones playing in that area on the site at the moment?
[02:35] <jdub> sabdfl: can we standardise on a certain format?
[02:35] <plovs> sabdfl, it looks really nice, after you get the hang of it
[02:35] <sabdfl> jdub: will make a strong recommendation
[02:35] <sabdfl> plovs: sure does :-)
[02:35] <jdub> sabdfl: i'm going to cry if we have ReST, moin, html, etc... ;)
[02:35] <sabdfl> jdub: i *think* we will recommend (a) ReST, (b) html
[02:35] <hornbeck> jdub: so would I
[02:36] <plovs> jdub, i vote for ReST it rules, no html, the site will look a mess
[02:36] <sabdfl> we can probably automatically convert moin to ReST
[02:36] <plovs> can we export rest to docbook?
[02:36] <hornbeck> Rest is looking good
[02:36] <sabdfl> plovs: some things you can only do in html
[02:36] <sabdfl> and I *think* you can embed html in ReST
[02:36] <jdub> can you-- ah
[02:36] <sabdfl> <div class="portalMessage"> is fun
[02:37] <hornbeck> html, is always needed alittle in webpages
[02:37] <sabdfl> see the home page for the banner i put on there this morning
[02:37] <plovs> sabdfl, where is documentation for this stuff? <div class="portalMessage">
[02:38] <sabdfl> plovs: plone
[02:38] <sabdfl> i think we should be *very* strict with html embedded
[02:38] <sabdfl> as plovs says, it can become a mess
[02:39] <plovs> can you make an admin group with the 'rights' to do html the rest uses ReST?
[02:40] <Keybuk> "After reading about Ubuntu I have decided to include it into DesktopOS.com as one of the Linux Operating Systems we follow.
[02:40] <Keybuk> The review by JL helped, and some other news I read.
[02:40] <Keybuk> This is the first GNOME distro on DesktopOS.com"
[02:40] <Keybuk> heh
[02:40] <jdub> haha
[02:40] <jdub> rawk
[02:41] <mjg59> I see oGo is back in #gnome-hackers, too
[02:41] <jdub> mjg59: turned up the other day
[02:41] <Keybuk> mjg59: register backme.org ? :)
[02:41] <jdub> must've been inspired by the nokia work
[02:41] <jdub> he's already imported atlantis
[02:41] <mjg59> Yeah, he seems keen on webcore
[02:42] <sabdfl> Keybuk: naaaaiiice
[02:42] <plovs> hornbeck, i have to go, i'll be back tonight
[02:42] <hornbeck> plovs: I am leaving for work in a sec also
[02:42] <hornbeck> talk later
[02:43] <plovs> hornbeck, see ya!
[02:43] <hornbeck> bye
[02:43] <mjg59> Arse. Right, that makes no difference
[02:46] <Keybuk> no difference to?
[02:48] <srbaker> okay, i'm trying an ubuntu install again on my lapto
[02:48] <srbaker> p
[02:48] <srbaker> it'd better work this time!
[02:49] <srbaker> where is the ubuntu porn?
[02:49] <Keybuk> elmo's getting oiled up as we speak
[02:50] <jdub> srbaker: apt-get install ubuntu-calendar
[02:50] <Keybuk> jdub: s/apt-get/aptitude/
[02:50] <jdub> Keybuk: i don't do aptitude yet
[02:51] <mjg59> Keybuk: Resume
[02:51] <Keybuk> aptitude will install recommends as well, and does dep tracking
[02:51] <Keybuk> mjg59: doesn't it work for you already?
[02:51] <mjg59> Putting the waking vector at 256K rather than 4K
[02:51] <mjg59> Not on the craptop
[02:51] <Keybuk> or did you just break it completely? :p
[02:51] <Keybuk> craptop?
[02:51] <mjg59> The C3 PoS
[02:51] <Keybuk> ah, heh
[02:51] <Keybuk> may I test?
[02:52] <mjg59> I've got one more thing to try here, then I'd be interested if you could test my test kernel
[02:52] <mjg59> It'll probably make no difference, but...
[02:53] <Keybuk> okies
[02:54] <srbaker> does that install the porno login screen?
[02:55] <Keybuk> that login screen is available, just select the HumanCircle theme
[02:55] <__daniel> hai
[02:56] <srbaker> ahh
[02:56] <srbaker> it should be the default.
[02:58] <srbaker> hopefully ubuntu doesn't break on my lappy this tiem
[02:58] <Keybuk> for various reasons the community felt it shouldn't be the default
[02:59] <srbaker> well the community was wrong.
[02:59] <srbaker> :)
[03:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/acpikernel
[03:01] <sabdfl> glad to see the :-) in there
[03:01] <srbaker> mjg59, what's that kernel for?  i'm having acpi trouble with my lappy
[03:02] <sabdfl> mjg59: looks crap in a browser, wheres the penguin?
[03:02] <sabdfl> ;-)
[03:03] <mjg59> srbaker: Attempts to deal with complete failure to resume
[03:04] <Keybuk> sabdfl: apt-get install uml ... that should associate application/x-linux-kernel and boot with it
[03:04] <Keybuk> ps. I'm kidding ... I hope
[03:07] <srbaker> mjg59, ahh.  the problem i'm having is i have to do acpi=force
[03:08] <srbaker> has anyone else heard of gnome starting, but the splash screen not showing? 
[03:08] <srbaker> it seems that gnome-session was hanging on me
[03:08] <mjg59> srbaker: acpi=force depends on the date of your BIOS
[03:09] <srbaker> mjg59, right.  my bios is pre-1999
[03:09] <srbaker> it's a toshiba lappy that i hate
[03:09] <mjg59> The safe thing to do is use apm instead
[03:11] <srbaker> mjg59, but if acpi is off, I/O slows down so badly that it takes about 3 minutes to boot
[03:11] <srbaker> and usability is basically nill
[03:12] <srbaker> nil even
[03:12] <srbaker> i said: toshiba lappy.  that means "suck"
[03:12] <mjg59> That's likely to be indicative of something else that's wrong
[03:12] <Keybuk> mjg59: nope, unsurprisingly that didn't help
[03:13] <srbaker> mjg59, figured.  but acpi=force fixes it
[03:14] <srbaker> mjg59, what woudl you suggest looking at ?
[03:14] <lamont> doko: hardware specks for the liveCD-X-issue machine?
[03:14] <srbaker> oh, and i tried to boot warty RC2 live cd on an HP Digital Entertainment Center, and it wouldn't because the DEC sucks balls.
[03:15] <srbaker> and i almost got myself writ up for it, too.
[03:15] <mjg59> srbaker: Not sure
[03:15] <mjg59> Probably interrupt related
[03:15] <Keybuk> if it's a Tosh, defenestration seems a good plan <g>
[03:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah, thought not. Same behaviour as before?
[03:15] <Keybuk> mjg59: yup
[03:16] <srbaker> mjg59, oh, i notice that it sometimes disables irq 11
[03:16] <srbaker> Keybuk, defenestration?
[03:16] <mjg59> Heh. Well, I'm running out of ideas.
[03:16] <mjg59> srbaker: Throw through a window. Opening the window is optional.
[03:17] <Keybuk> mjg59: it printed some stuff on sleep about addresses, I guess that was your debugging?
[03:17] <srbaker> mjg59, well, perhaps when i get a new lappy.  right now, this Toshiba is all i can afford
[03:17] <srbaker> and that's mostly because it was almost free.
[03:17] <srbaker> i have kids and their welfare bum mother to support.
[03:18] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah
[03:18] <srbaker> anyways.  the install process goes well.
[03:18] <mjg59> The second and third should be the same
[03:18] <srbaker> it's starting gnome that gave me problems
[03:18] <Keybuk> they were
[03:18] <mjg59> Cool
[03:19] <mjg59> So the contents of the wakeup vector are set and still correct immediately before suspend
[03:19] <srbaker> what did you guys use to build the arty live cd?  i need to build debian-based live cds, are there good tools available?
[03:21] <Keybuk> srbaker: morphix
[03:21] <Keybuk> mjg59: heh, that sounds sane :)
[03:21] <lamont> morning
[03:22] <lamont> srbaker: writing the 'what we did for a livecd' page on the wiki is on my todo list for next week
[03:22] <Keybuk> there's a few notable things I've noticed
[03:22] <Keybuk> 1) the screen remains "off", not just black
[03:22] <srbaker> lamont, thank you
[03:22] <Keybuk> 2) after a short while not resuming, the fans increase in power as it gets warm (even with a kernel with no fan control, so this is hardware doing it I guess)
[03:23] <Keybuk> 3) the caps lock key works with acpi_sleep=s3_mode, but nothing else
[03:23] <srbaker> lamont, i have a medium-sized contract to put my kiosk software on my livecd
[03:23] <srbaker> erm, a livecd.
[03:24] <srbaker> that's actually how i got the toshiba lappy.
[03:24] <lamont> ah/
[03:24] <mjg59> Keybuk: ?
[03:25] <lamont> note that the liveCD should work on a subset of the hardware that the install CD does (different hw detection missese some stuff - will be merged in hoary
[03:25] <mjg59> If you pass acpi_sleep=s3_mode, you get working caps lock?
[03:25] <Keybuk> well, the key turns the light on and off
[03:25] <mjg59> That's interesting
[03:25] <mjg59> Because that's under software control
[03:25] <Keybuk> isn't it under hardware control for a small period?
[03:26] <mjg59> BIOS control
[03:26] <amu> hey lamont 
[03:27] <mjg59> That's weird. And only under acpi_sleep=s3_mode ?
[03:27] <Keybuk> well, I've noticed it twice, the second was under s3_mode
[03:27] <Keybuk> and I've tried it under other times, and it didn't help
[03:27] <mjg59> Hmm. Very strange.
[03:28] <sabdfl> Keybuk: nice idea
[03:28] <srbaker> lamont, my current kiosk software installs to harddrive using mondo. :P
[03:28] <sabdfl> is there a uml firefox plugin?
[03:28] <srbaker> lamont, the hardware for the kiosks are all identical.  hw detection isn't important

[03:28] <mjg59> The only thing the acpi_sleep things do is twiddle what the kernel does to the video hardware
[03:28] <Keybuk> sabdfl: ask mdz, it's one of his fetishes
[03:28] <Keybuk> mjg59: that's what I thought
[03:28] <Keybuk> it's a radeon, so it's known fucking iritating
[03:30] <lamont> srbaker: bootcd might do the trick for a fixed config...
[03:31] <lamont> although I've never used that
[03:32] <mjg59> Keybuk: In general, using vgacon makes life massively easier
[03:32] <Keybuk> I understood the new thought on this was to vgapost in the radeon init sequence and use radeonfb
[03:33] <srbaker> lamont, well, fixed config is the "main" usage, but i want it to be demonstrable on random hw
[03:34] <Keybuk> mjg59: nope, can't replicate that now
[03:36] <mjg59> Keybuk: Weird
[03:36] <sid77> hi, all :)
[03:36] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah, you /can/ do it that way. But that's not a very generic solution.
[03:36] <amu> srbaker: easy way, cdbackup + installed discover. 
[03:36] <Keybuk> does the video init happen before or after where you put the beeping ?
[03:36] <mjg59> Getting this working with vesafb is going to be a real nightmare
[03:36] <mjg59> Keybuk: After
[03:36] <mjg59> But I've taken the beeping out now
[03:37] <Keybuk> ok, was wondering whether that was hard-crashing it or something
[03:37] <Keybuk> if I suspend with caps lock on, the light doesn't light up again on wake-up
[03:37] <srbaker> geh.  time to job hunt today.
[03:37] <srbaker> ttyl
[03:39] <mjg59> Hmm. vesafb-ng might be a better bet.
[03:40] <Keybuk> and suspended with all fans on, and non of them spin up on wakeup
[03:40] <ctalkep> hi there?
[03:40] <ctalkep> any chance that daf is here?
[03:40] <carlos> ctalkep: perhaps later
[03:41] <ctalkep> carlos, thanks. can't find him for so l ong:)
[03:41] <carlos> but I'm not sure if he will enter into this channel
[03:41] <carlos> hmm, he's here
[03:41] <carlos> :-P
[03:41] <carlos> but away
[03:42] <ctalkep> well
[03:42] <carlos> so as soon as he wakes up...
[03:42] <ctalkep> sleepy guy:)
[03:42] <ctalkep> wanted to get info on translation contribution
[03:43] <ctalkep> if anyne here can help, i won't stalk him so hard:)
[03:45] <carlos> ctalkep: which kind of info do you need?
[03:45] <ctalkep> as basic as possible, i wanted to start the bulgarian translation, and need to know where do i start
[03:46] <__daniel> carlos, ctalkep: good starting point would be the debian bulgarian l10n status, wouldnt it?
[03:47] <carlos> __daniel: yes
[03:47] <carlos> ctalkep: We don't have (yet) ready the translation tools to handle translations directly
[03:48] <__daniel> ctalkep, bg is the code for bulgaria?
[03:48] <ctalkep> yep
[03:48] <carlos> but as __daniel suggest, you could start now contributing to Debian, GNOME and other projects directly because we will get also those translations back
[03:48] <__daniel> http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/bg_BG
[03:49] <ctalkep> oh, did not know that
[03:50] <carlos> ctalkep: as soon as we have our l10n infrastructure in place we will announce it in our mailing list and website
[03:51] <ctalkep> oh, this info is pretty enough for me
[03:51] <ctalkep> so i'll just start with the debian then
[03:51] <__daniel> ctalkep, cool you'd like to contribute! :-)
[03:53] <ctalkep> yes:)
[03:54] <ctalkep> btw
[03:55] <ctalkep> i manage several sites and i would like to put on some banners etc. where do i get, like, website ki?
[03:55] <ctalkep> i mean website kit
[03:56] <__daniel> bye everyone
[03:57] <ctalkep> bye
[04:08] <srbaker> okay, this is *fucked* up
[04:08] <srbaker> i logged into my ubuntu laptop for the first time 15 minutes ago
[04:08] <srbaker> it *just* loaded the trash can and workspace switcher
[04:08] <srbaker> something's not right
[04:09] <srbaker> when i click the computer menu, it takes about 30 seconds for it to show up
[04:12] <srbaker> anyone else having these problems?
[04:14] <sid77> afaik ubuntu desktop isn't so rich of icon, isn't it right to just load the trash and the switcher?
[04:15] <sid77> (in the lower menu)
[04:15] <Keybuk> srbaker: try booting with noapic and pci=noacpi
[04:20] <mjg59> srbaker: It would help if you could check whether this is happening with all processes
[04:22] <srbaker> mjg59, yeah, after rebooting, it appears that everything is slowed down
[04:22] <srbaker> Keybuk, i have acpi=force on
[04:23] <srbaker> just a second
[04:23] <Keybuk> srbaker: that's nice ... that's not what I asked :o)
[04:23] <Keybuk> noapic  turns off APIC support, APIC != ACPI
[04:23] <Keybuk> pci=noacpi  turns off ACPI for IRQ routeing ... on a laptop as old as yours, that might be bust
[04:24] <mjg59> 2.6.9 has the useful feature that it doesn't enable the APIC if the BIOS disabled it
[04:24] <mjg59> Which is the sane behaviour
[04:24] <Keybuk> heh, Linux in "ignoring BIOS" shocker
[04:24] <mjg59> <2.6.9 will force enable the APIC by default. Which is, uh, stupid.
[04:25] <Keybuk> though strangely my desktop's APIC isn't disabled by BIOS and needs noapic
[04:26] <Keybuk> whereas my laptop's is disabled by BIOS, but enabling it isn't harmful
[04:26] <kylem> have there been any reports of lockups during the postinstall run of apt?
[04:27] <Keybuk> kylem: you sure it's locking up, and not just thinking?
[04:27] <srbaker> okay, i lied.  the rest of the system was fine, the gnome was busted
[04:27] <kylem> Keybuk, numlock no longer works.
[04:27] <srbaker> with noapic and pci=noacpi, the whole system slows down
[04:28] <kylem> it seems to die at "Preconfiguring" just after "Extracting templates" but before making any package-specific output.
[04:30] <srbaker> Keybuk, still no change.
[04:30] <srbaker> Keybuk, i tried with noapic and nolapic, ntohing better.
[04:31] <srbaker> Keybuk, sarge seems to work fine, if i use acpi=force and nothing else
[04:36] <sabdfl> hornbeck, plovs: we're updated the wiki software
[04:36] <sabdfl> also, removed the ability to add non-wiki pages to /wiki/
[04:36] <sabdfl> and i'm moving some of the non-wiki stuff that was in /wiki/ to /support/documentation/
[04:36] <srbaker> okay, this is going to have to wait
[04:45] <sid77> bye averyone
[05:04] <robertj> hey all. Is there a problem with SDL's configuration? Battle for Wesnoth does not give sound unless you elevate your permissions
[05:05] <robertj> a sudo true && wesnoth is enough to get the job done
[05:06] <tseng> search/file @ bugzilla for that
[05:28] <plovs> sabdfl, are you updating or did you finish it and where did my pages go? (i don't care i was just playing,but they're gone)
[05:28] <sabdfl> plovs: not gone
[05:28] <sabdfl> i wrote ^^^ that i was moving them
[05:29] <sabdfl> we only want wiki pages in the /wiki/ directory, thanks for finding that bug :-)
[05:29] <sabdfl> so we've fixed it now you can only create wiki pages in there
[05:29] <sabdfl> and i've moved your folders to /support/ and /support/documentation/
[05:29] <plovs> sabdfl, ok
[05:29] <sabdfl> plovs: please take care with what you write on the site, it can get published immediately
[05:30] <sabdfl> did you have a cold?
[05:30] <sabdfl> "Workig with video on your Ububtu Desktop" >:-)
[05:35] <plovs> sabdfl, yes, this is eastern europe it's already cold here :)
[05:35] <sabdfl> ;-)
[05:35] <sabdfl> this is london it's always wet here
[05:36] <plovs> sabdfl, where should we work, in support or in wiki, or both?
[05:36] <sabdfl> plovs: i think it's best to develop new stuff in the wiki
[05:36] <sabdfl> because every member can edit content there
[05:36] <sabdfl> more open
[05:37] <sabdfl> then when the content is stable, move it into the doc area
[05:38] <plovs> sabdfl, ok, can we have a toplink to the wiki then?
[05:38] <sabdfl> toplink?
[05:39] <plovs> sabdfl, at the top of the page it says: ubuntu community support planet <EMPTY>
[05:39] <plovs> sabdfl, <EMPTY> could be wiki
[05:41] <sabdfl> which page?
[05:42] <sabdfl> plovs: ^?
[05:43] <plovs> on:site-edit press:home, now i can't get to the wiki
[05:45] <sabdfl> plovs: yes, i took it out of the "published" state
[05:45] <sabdfl> until monday when we have moved the content across successfully
[05:46] <sabdfl> you can still get there with site-edit.../wiki/
[05:49] <plovs> sabdfl, sure, thanks
[05:49] <sabdfl> enjoy
[05:50] <plovs> sabdfl, one last bug, there is edit, preview but no cancel???
[05:51] <plovs> sabdfl, on the wiki that is
[05:52] <sabdfl> plovs: hmmm.... i don't think it saves it if you don't click save
[05:52] <sabdfl> but you're right, there should be a cancel button
[05:54] <plovs> sabdfl, where do i send these kind of questions ubuntu-devel ubuntu-doc, irc?
[05:57] <plovs> sabdfl, hmmm and I can no longer create folders in wiki, but i can in support?
[06:07] <sabdfl> plovs: hmm... not sure what the situation is with the wiki and folders
[06:10] <plovs> sabdfl, i have add page but not like i used to have add folder, etc. I made a page private, then I could no longer access it ???
[06:10] <plovs> sabdfl, permissions seem messed up
[06:11] <sabdfl> plovs: this is all new, we'll have to work out the permissions
[06:11] <sabdfl> first, which page, i'll restore it
[06:15] <plovs> in the root of the wiki, called page.2004 i hadn't named it, i tried not saving as a way to cancel...doesn't work :) anyway i go have dinner
[06:19] <sabdfl> plovs: can't see it, i think it was never saved
[06:49] <mdz> sabdfl: the plone wiki doesn't seem to support the hierarchical moin structure properly
[06:49] <mdz> I can't seem to link to the parent of a page, or another page relative to it
[06:50] <mdz> it just reverts my change
[06:50] <sabdfl> mdz: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewWikiAnnouncement/
[06:51] <sabdfl> we have a limited number of options
[06:51] <sabdfl> for the moment i think it best just to shorten and rename
[06:51] <sabdfl> WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule -> WartyReleaseSchedule
[06:52] <__daniel> re
[06:52] <sabdfl> good news though, we got moin table support unexpectedly soon
[06:53] <mdz> I'd gladly give up tables for hierarchies
[06:53] <sabdfl> we can sort of get them
[06:53] <sabdfl> we can add new wikis inside old ones possibly
[06:53] <sabdfl> but the namespaces are then b0rked
[06:54] <sabdfl> so, inside a subsidiary wiki you would not be able to refer to pages in the parent folder
[07:09] <sabdfl> mdz: maybe we can use interwiki links for the hierarchies
[07:09] <sabdfl> but it would mean that every link in a subsidiary directory to a page in the top dir would need to be like MainWiki:PageName
[07:09] <sabdfl> unless we did some funky acquisition voodoo
[07:10] <sabdfl> also, this new wiki has the concept of wiki structure separate from namespace
[07:10] <sabdfl> try clicking on "wiki contents"
[07:10] <sabdfl> you can reparent a page by going to the page, putting the new parent page name in the field at the bottom and selecting "reparent"
[07:14] <mdz> sabdfl: sounds scary
[07:15] <sabdfl> mdz: not really
[07:15] <mdz> sabdfl: where is the documentation for ReStructuredText?
[07:15] <sabdfl> try it
[07:15] <mdz> ah, I see it
[07:15] <sabdfl> links are a little funky
[07:15] <plovs> sabdfl, what about folders?
[07:15] <sabdfl> plovs: no go for the moment
[07:16] <mdz> it uses all of the same markup as moinmoin, but with _entirely different meanings_ :-)
[07:16] <sabdfl> stevea is workiing on a python script to suck 'n blow :-)
[07:16] <sabdfl> mdz: but of course
[07:16] <sabdfl> so we may have the stuff automatically transferred
[07:16] <sabdfl> how deep are the hardware folders?
[07:16] <mdz> just 2 levels, I think
[07:17] <sabdfl> need to flatten the namespace graciously
[07:17] <sabdfl> mdz: the reparenting thing is entirely independent of content
[07:17] <plovs> sabdfl, could i get the python script from stevea, when he is ready?
[07:18] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, it's just that someone just spent a lot of volunteer time to break it down and make a hierarchy out of it :-/
[07:18] <sabdfl> mdz: not really anything we can do about it, except break the wiki spec in a different way to moin's
[07:18] <sabdfl> plovs: to run it? it will only need to be run once
[07:19] <plovs> sabdfl, i would like to make a script to export stuff from to wiki to docbook, i could use his code as foundation
[07:20] <sabdfl> plovs ok ping him directly
[07:20] <sabdfl> but i don't think he will be parsing the content, except for the namespace issue
[07:20] <sabdfl> mainly it will just be "fetch from here, post to there"
[07:21] <plovs> sabdfl, ok
[07:27] <mdz> sabdfl: how should we go about publishing USNs on the website?  Should we use the Errata facility?
[07:28] <sabdfl> mdz: yes, let's create a dedicated folder for them, which we can also publish as rss
[07:28] <mdz> sabdfl: how do I do that?
[07:28] <sabdfl> no idea :-)
[07:28] <mdz> I see how to create errata, but not a new folder
[07:29] <sabdfl> https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/search_rss?sort_on=modified&sort_order=descending&path=/ubuntu/support/documentation&portal_type=HelpCenterFAQFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterHowToFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterTutorialFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterLinkFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterErrorReferenceFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterGlossary
[07:29] <sabdfl> fiddle with that to do the rss
[07:29] <sabdfl> where do you want the folder?
[07:29] <mdz> dunno. support?
[07:30] <mdz> or maybe even at top level
[07:30] <sabdfl> hmm... security feels like it deserves its own top level folder, but that way lies madness
[07:30] <sabdfl> stop DOING that! :-)
[07:30] <mdz> many projects have security as a top-level item because it's important to be able to find it quickly
[07:31] <mdz> though, it's under a 'support' heading
[07:31] <sabdfl> ok, let's create it in support
[07:31] <mdz> e.g., www.debian.org and www.freebsd.org both have a hyperlink from the top level, but it's nested under 'support'
[07:32] <mdz> redhat has a shortcut from the top
[07:32] <plovs> sabdfl, 1) do we have homepages 2) pages are signed with a number not a name
[07:32] <mdz> sabdfl: I think we've found The Wart, by the way
[07:32] <sabdfl> plovs: (1) maybe, (2) bug :-)
[07:32] <mdz> a patch was inadvertently dropped in the last kernel rev
[07:33] <sabdfl> i'd like the answer to be (1) yes and (2) fixed, will know this week
[07:33] <mdz> a trivial one which fixed a bunch of apic/IRQ/etc. problems
[07:33] <sabdfl> plovs: ping lulu monday?
[07:33] <sabdfl> mdz: The Wart?
[07:33] <sabdfl> kernel?
[07:33] <mdz> sabdfl: the one that would make me wish I could go back in time and fix it
[07:33] <plovs> sabdfl, ok
[07:33] <sabdfl> so let's fix it for the cd's
[07:34] <mdz> eek
[07:34] <mdz> I think it's madness at this point to change what "Ubuntu 4.10" means
[07:34] <sabdfl> wait a week, it can be 4.11 
[07:35] <sabdfl> out of curiousity what's the bug, what's the fix, where did we introduce it?
[07:35] <sabdfl> no point releases, but there's no point in printing the cd's with a known fixable Wart
[07:36] <sabdfl> we'll find a way
[07:36] <sabdfl> is the install cd maxed out in size?
[07:36] <mdz> sabdfl: we were building the kernel with a particular option enabled
[07:36] <mdz> which was flaky
[07:36] <sabdfl> which one?
[07:36] <mdz> CONFIG_PCI_MSI
[07:36] <mdz> it is =y and should be =n
[07:36] <sabdfl> doh
[07:37] <sabdfl> is the install cd full?
[07:37] <mdz> it was disabled in 2.6.8.1-9, with good results
[07:37] <mdz> and apparently it was inadvertently re-enabled in -16
[07:37] <mdz> the install cd is not full
[07:37] <sabdfl> bad day down under?
[07:37] <mdz> dunno
[07:38] <sabdfl> i'm thinking one way out would be to put the updated kernel package on the install cd in a separate dir
[07:38] <sabdfl> but i guess there's no hook to find and install it other tha an erratum sheet
[07:38] <sabdfl> and that would be a usability mess
[07:38] <mdz> better to put it in warty-updates, in my opinion
[07:38] <plovs> sabdfl, my last wiki-question, then i'll leave it for monday but quick restructured text doesn't work on my side?
[07:39] <sabdfl> doesn't work how?
[07:39] <sabdfl> mdz: your call, but i'm not at all averse to rev'ing the shipit cd with warty-updates content
[07:39] <plovs> sabdfl, look at: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/EditingWikiPages
[07:40] <mdz> sabdfl: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2662
[07:40] <mdz> has some details
[07:40] <sabdfl> plovs: check the format list at the bottom of the page
[07:40] <sabdfl> you have selected StructuredText
[07:40] <sabdfl> which is not the same as ReStructured Text
[07:41] <mdz> sabdfl: herbert proposed sneaking it into a security update, but I consider that evil in the extreme
[07:43] <sabdfl> so we have warty-updates and warty-security?
[07:44] <sabdfl> which appears in the sources.list file?
[07:44] <mdz> warty-security is in sources.list by default, warty-updates is not
[07:45] <mdz> changing behaviour in a security update would be a serious breach of trust, especially this early
[07:46] <sabdfl> warty-updates makes sense to me for a more long-lived release
[07:46] <sabdfl> or, a release of a sort that will have rare releases
[07:46] <sabdfl> like if we did an "enterprise grade"
[07:46] <sabdfl> but, the flip side is that maybe this is the basis of that effort
[07:47] <sabdfl> the -updates archive becomes the place where warty matures to become warty-enterprise
[07:47] <mdz> right
[07:48] <sabdfl> there's no rule that says that the CD we ship has to be exactly the same as the download
[07:48] <sabdfl> our options w.r.t. the cd and iso are as follows:
[07:49] <sabdfl> do nothing, continue to ship iso and cd as they were on 20/10
[07:49] <sabdfl> ship the cd with a fixed kernel
[07:49] <sabdfl> update both
[07:49] <cenerentola> does anybody here know what fnfx are?
[07:50] <sabdfl> is it very importnt that the through-the-mail cd be the same as the download one?
[07:51] <mdz> sabdfl: I feel that it is, yes
[07:51] <sabdfl> mdz: ok, the errata content type is special
[07:51] <plovs> sabdfl, i should leave it for monday but search as i may i don not see format at the bottom of any of my pages not edit, not contents, not view, monday->lulu?
[07:51] <mdz> we cause a lot of confusion if we don't have a single blob that we call Warty
[07:51] <sabdfl> plovs: edit the page
[07:51] <sabdfl> at the bottom, near the save button, are some radio buttons
[07:51] <sabdfl> with the format
[07:51] <mdz> of course we could do point releases :-)
[07:52] <sabdfl> you currently have it on structured text
[07:52] <sabdfl> so, about errata, it at the moment only shows up inside the help center errata thing
[07:52] <sabdfl> which is support/documentation/errata
[07:53] <mdz> well, we should have a page for security info
[07:53] <mdz> which would link to errata
[07:54] <plovs> sabdfl, sorry no buttons here, you are probably admin or something
[07:54] <sabdfl>   mdz: yes
[07:55] <plovs> sabdfl, i'll log out and back in
[07:55] <sabdfl> do you want to be able to categories the USNs?
[07:57] <mdz> sabdfl: not really
[07:57] <mdz> just enumerate them
[07:57] <mdz> sabdfl: should we have one group of errata for security, and another for warty-updates stuff?
[07:57] <sabdfl> mdz: yes, that sounds good
[07:58] <sabdfl> and just one stream for all releases
[07:58] <mdz> ok, let me know when there is a place for me to put the USNs
[07:59] <mdz> sabdfl: we should have a feed which has only security
[07:59] <plovs> sabdfl, no, no buttons under edit, next to save, only a void, emptyness
[07:59] <mdz> I hope plone lets us do that
[07:59] <sabdfl> plovs: weird
[07:59] <plovs> sabdfl, something with permissions probably, you want my login?
[08:02] <sabdfl> mdz: shiny
[08:02] <sabdfl> plovs: could be
[08:03] <sabdfl> mdz: what's the first USN number?
[08:03] <sabdfl> or a url?
[08:03] <mdz> sabdfl: I was creating it just now, should I not?
[08:03] <mdz> the first is USN-1-1
[08:04] <sabdfl> mdz: creating it in the documentation/usn folder?
[08:04] <mdz> sabdfl: correct
[08:04] <sabdfl> you're too fast :-)
[08:04] <sabdfl> go ahead
[08:04] <sabdfl> shiny that it asks you the product versions
[08:05] <sabdfl> regarding the streams: yes, one for security, one for updates
[08:05] <sabdfl> each stream covers all releases
[08:06] <mdz> sabdfl: the 'upload a file' bit for the body doesn't seem to work
[08:06] <mdz> I end up with an empty body
[08:06] <mdz> (sounds uncomfortable)
[08:07] <sabdfl> as opposed to an empty mind
[08:07] <sabdfl> how on earth you survive in LA i don't know
[08:07] <sabdfl> maybe i'm just always there with the wrong crowd
[08:07] <plovs> sabdfl, in /support/ it all works... including quick restructured text, but /wiki/ is broken
[08:07] <sabdfl> hey! next time i go i can have a pony tail too!
[08:07] <mdz> sabdfl: entirely possible
[08:08] <sabdfl> plovs: ok, please work with bradb and lulu on monday
[08:08] <mdz> there are many social strata, and most of them are unsavory
[08:08] <mdz> I find that's true of most places anyway
[08:08] <sabdfl> you don't have to look very far
[08:08] <sabdfl> but LA has something extra in that regard
[08:09] <sabdfl> shiver
[08:09] <plovs> sabdfl, ok
[08:09] <sabdfl> plovs: sorry i can't solve the problem, just don't know plone that well
[08:09] <sabdfl> if at all
[08:10] <plovs> sabdfl, that makes two, then ;)
[08:11] <mdz> published usn-1-1 and usn-2-1
[08:11] <sabdfl> plovs: would you like me to fix that specific page for you?
[08:11] <__daniel> is there an announcement on warty-security?
[08:12] <amu> 2 :)
[08:12] <mdz> __daniel: the mailing list is ubuntu-security-announce, and they were sent ~12 hours ago
[08:12] <sabdfl> mdz: somehow usn1 is in usn2
[08:12] <mdz> i'm just putting them on the website now
[08:12] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, cut and paste error, already fixed
[08:12] <mdz> sabdfl: you're too fast :-)
[08:12] <__daniel> mdz, ok, thanks
[08:12] <sabdfl> just tryin' to keep up
[08:13] <plovs> sabdfl, maybe clean up the mess of empty pages, leave only good content, i'll work in support until monday
[08:14] <plovs> sabdfl, thanks 
[08:14] <sabdfl> plovs: hell don't thank me, i must thank you for your work
[08:15] <sabdfl> docs are a great contribution
[08:17] <mdz> sabdfl: I wrote an overview "how to get help" doc in the wiki
[08:17] <mdz> sabdfl: I think it should have a prominent place on the website, as a starting point for support
[08:17] <mdz> perhaps as a how-to, with a quick link from somewhere high up
[08:18] <sabdfl> mdz: go ahead and add it to the home page
[08:23] <mdz> restructuredtext MUST be joking
[08:23] <mdz> System Message: WARNING/2 (<string>, line 2)
[08:23] <mdz> Title underline too short.
[08:23] <mdz> I can't seriously be required to match the length of the underline to the length of the text
[08:24] <mdz> it's displayed in a proportionally spaced font, even!
[08:25] <mdz> sabdfl: should we really recommend this as the format for new pages?
[08:26] <mdz> the restructuredtext guys have been hanging out with the arch guys
[08:27] <Keybuk> rofl, them's fighting words?!
[08:30] <sabdfl> mdz: we've now got moin too
[08:30] <mdz> I was just following the instructions, which say that restructured is the way to go
[08:30] <mdz> but I beg to differ
[08:30] <sabdfl> written before we go moin tables
[08:30] <mdz> HTML is easier than this
[08:31] <sabdfl> yes, restructured felt like a pain at first to me too
[08:31] <sabdfl> but it has a certain inflexibility that appeals to my inner fascist
[08:31] <sabdfl> still, that's no reason to foist it on the masses
[08:31] <sabdfl> in this case
[08:32] <sabdfl> so let's hammer that out with the experts on monday
[08:32] <mdz> what should I do with this howto for now?
[08:32] <Keybuk> is there any particular reason we're using a new wiki, and didn't just get jeff to do a moin theme to make it look like the rest of the site?
[08:32] <mdz> Keybuk: this way it can be searched, etc. with the rest of the site
[08:32] <sabdfl> keybuk: *much* better integrated
[08:32] <sabdfl> mdz: html if you prefer
[08:32] <sabdfl> h1/2/3 and p 
[08:32] <mdz> the wiki seems mostly OK
[08:33] <Keybuk> but we've lost all the changes information; which was the bit I used to read
[08:33] <sabdfl> keybuk, you can still read it
[08:33] <mdz> my understanding is that it will come back
[08:33] <sabdfl> turns out the new one has it already
[08:33] <sabdfl> um... you may have to be a manager to see it
[08:33] <sabdfl> nup
[08:33] <mdz> I'll just leave it as-is and unpublished until we have a standard high-level markup
[08:33] <sabdfl> history tab 
[08:34] <sabdfl> default to just showing the last diff in pretty colours but you can get more
[08:35] <Keybuk> ah ok, that's not too bad then
[08:35] <sabdfl> and we get backlinks
[08:35] <sabdfl> and renaming
[08:35] <mdz> one thing I could live without, is white text on a red background
[08:35] <sabdfl> and much better search
[08:35] <plovs> kupu is nice but it creates html
[08:35] <sabdfl> white text on red background?
[08:36] <sabdfl> try the black text on red background :-)
[08:36] <mdz> sabdfl: the active tab, the headings on navigation and recent items
[08:36] <sabdfl> the theme is all temporary
[08:36] <mdz> the currently highlighted navigation item
[08:36] <mdz> ok
[08:36] <sabdfl> i want to get te content and function right first
[08:36] <Keybuk> the login stuff never seems to work right :(
[08:36] <sabdfl> then we can get a design done and implemented quickly
[08:36] <sabdfl> Keybuk: use the magic url
[08:36] <Keybuk> well, I click login, put in the details, and get an error page back
[08:36] <sabdfl> there are cacheing issues with just loggin straight in
[08:37] <Keybuk> then some pages I visit thing I'm logged in, then some don't
[08:41] <sabdfl> does adobe have a recent acrobat for linux?
[08:42] <plovs> sabdfl, define decent
[08:42] <__daniel> sabdfl, isnt it the one marillat has packaged? (you mean the reader)
[08:42] <sabdfl> recent
[08:42] <sabdfl> the reader, yes
[08:42] <plovs> sabdfl, it works, but the windows one is way better
[08:42] <sabdfl> ok
[08:56] <amu> cooooool forrest gump runs on tv, i love this film
[08:57] <Mitario> hello everyone
[08:57] <Mitario> damn, ubuntu livecd is awsome :)
[08:58] <__daniel> hai Mitario
[09:01] <amu> Mitario: *g* 
[09:04] <__daniel> oh... no glademm-package? :-(
[09:08] <__daniel> who should i adress with my "wish"? :-)
[09:11] <__daniel> ubuntu-users?
[09:33] <cenerentola> sorry what are the main characteristic of the live thing?
[09:43] <cenerentola> you could at leat pretend to listen
[09:54] <cenerentola> sorry the stupid question but how can i contribute with the installer translation?
[09:58] <cenerentola> kamion: got time for an humble question?
[10:02] <Keybuk> it's Saturday night, I doubt he's anywhere near a computer
[10:03] <cenerentola> keybuk: you are... so who/where should i ask/look to for the installer translation
[10:04] <Keybuk> http://people.debian.org/~seppy/d-i/translation-status.html
[10:04] <Keybuk> http://svn.debian.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/i18n/i18n.html
[10:05] <Keybuk> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/translation-hints
[10:05] <Keybuk> those three links look good
[10:20] <srbaker> can someone here help me go through my lappy problems and troubleshoot them?
[10:21] <sivang> srbaker : you might try and ask this on #ubuntu
[10:23] <Keybuk> indeed, #ubuntu and ubuntu-users is the right place for tech-support and problems
[10:23] <Keybuk> much busier with more people likely to be able to help
[10:24] <sivang> hi keybuk, what's up?
[10:24] <Keybuk> price of beetroot
[10:24] <sivang> what?
[10:24] <Keybuk> it's up
[10:24] <sivang> what is beetroot?
[10:25] <Keybuk> purple
[10:25] <Keybuk> you have it in salads
[10:27] <sivang> oh
[10:27] <sivang> :)
[10:27] <sivang> so all RC stuff are done (if to judge by the channel's topic) ? :)
[10:28] <Keybuk> yes, any RC bugs now open are open against hoary
[10:28] <sivang> I see. well, good :)
[10:28] <sivang> Have you had a nice doze of beers post release?
[10:29] <Keybuk> yeah, a few of us had a bit of a party in London
[10:30] <sivang> ah that's great, shame I am way far on the middle east :))
[11:22] <sivang> Kamion : around?
[11:43] <jdub> hrm
[11:43] <srbaker_> jdub, seems to be working now.
[11:43] <srbaker_> jdub, who's fault is the Human theme for Gnome?
[11:43] <jdub> whichwhat?
[11:44] <srbaker_> jdub, my lappy
[11:44] <jdub> which part of the theme?
[11:44] <srbaker_> oh, the theem is fine except for the window border colour
[11:45] <srbaker_> diarrhea brown.
[11:47] <srbaker_> i had to switch to Glider
[11:48] <srbaker_> yaye.  i found the ubuntu porjhn
[11:48] <srbaker_> now, isn't there ubuntu porn for the splash screen as well?
[11:48] <jdub> /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/
[11:49] <srbaker_> how do i change my splash screen?
[11:49] <__daniel> srbaker_, with gtweakui :-)
[11:49] <jdub> in gconf, /apps/gnome-session/
[11:49] <__daniel> oh.. not packaged in ubuntu
[11:50] <srbaker_> oh
[11:50] <__daniel> (i was referring to gtweakui)
[11:50] <chrisa> Add sid sources, pin and install from sid ;)
[11:52] <__daniel> chrisa, that's a good idea - would that be a general "course of action" if i'd like to contribute packages (if someone was interested in that at all)
[11:53] <chrisa> I'm the last person to ask
[11:54] <__daniel> :-)
[11:54] <srbaker_> god damn.
[11:55] <srbaker_> if i wanted sid sources, i'd use sid :P
[11:55] <__daniel> well... first i wanted to reply to you and then i changed my mind and wanted to ask the rest of the channel too
[11:55] <__daniel> chrisa, thanks for the clue :-)
[12:00] <srbaker_> is it considered a bug that emacs isn't anywhere to be found in the app menu?