is fun [02:37] html, is always needed alittle in webpages [02:37] see the home page for the banner i put on there this morning [02:37] sabdfl, where is documentation for this stuff?

[02:38] plovs: plone [02:38] i think we should be *very* strict with html embedded [02:38] as plovs says, it can become a mess === plovs must read plone [02:39] can you make an admin group with the 'rights' to do html the rest uses ReST? [02:40] "After reading about Ubuntu I have decided to include it into DesktopOS.com as one of the Linux Operating Systems we follow. [02:40] The review by JL helped, and some other news I read. [02:40] This is the first GNOME distro on DesktopOS.com" [02:40] heh [02:40] haha [02:40] rawk [02:41] I see oGo is back in #gnome-hackers, too [02:41] mjg59: turned up the other day [02:41] mjg59: register backme.org ? :) [02:41] must've been inspired by the nokia work [02:41] he's already imported atlantis [02:41] Yeah, he seems keen on webcore [02:42] Keybuk: naaaaiiice [02:42] hornbeck, i have to go, i'll be back tonight [02:42] plovs: I am leaving for work in a sec also [02:42] talk later [02:43] hornbeck, see ya! [02:43] bye [02:43] Arse. Right, that makes no difference [02:46] no difference to? [02:48] okay, i'm trying an ubuntu install again on my lapto [02:48] p [02:48] it'd better work this time! [02:49] where is the ubuntu porn? [02:49] elmo's getting oiled up as we speak [02:50] srbaker: apt-get install ubuntu-calendar === jdub goes for dinner [02:50] jdub: s/apt-get/aptitude/ [02:50] Keybuk: i don't do aptitude yet [02:51] Keybuk: Resume [02:51] aptitude will install recommends as well, and does dep tracking [02:51] mjg59: doesn't it work for you already? [02:51] Putting the waking vector at 256K rather than 4K [02:51] Not on the craptop [02:51] or did you just break it completely? :p [02:51] craptop? [02:51] The C3 PoS [02:51] ah, heh [02:51] may I test? [02:52] I've got one more thing to try here, then I'd be interested if you could test my test kernel [02:52] It'll probably make no difference, but... [02:53] okies [02:54] does that install the porno login screen? === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c55.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:55] that login screen is available, just select the HumanCircle theme [02:55] <__daniel> hai [02:56] ahh [02:56] it should be the default. [02:58] hopefully ubuntu doesn't break on my lappy this tiem [02:58] for various reasons the community felt it shouldn't be the default [02:59] well the community was wrong. [02:59] :) [03:01] Keybuk: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/acpikernel [03:01] glad to see the :-) in there [03:01] mjg59, what's that kernel for? i'm having acpi trouble with my lappy [03:02] mjg59: looks crap in a browser, wheres the penguin? [03:02] ;-) [03:03] srbaker: Attempts to deal with complete failure to resume [03:04] sabdfl: apt-get install uml ... that should associate application/x-linux-kernel and boot with it [03:04] ps. I'm kidding ... I hope [03:07] mjg59, ahh. the problem i'm having is i have to do acpi=force [03:08] has anyone else heard of gnome starting, but the splash screen not showing? [03:08] it seems that gnome-session was hanging on me [03:08] srbaker: acpi=force depends on the date of your BIOS [03:09] mjg59, right. my bios is pre-1999 [03:09] it's a toshiba lappy that i hate [03:09] The safe thing to do is use apm instead [03:11] mjg59, but if acpi is off, I/O slows down so badly that it takes about 3 minutes to boot [03:11] and usability is basically nill [03:12] nil even [03:12] i said: toshiba lappy. that means "suck" [03:12] That's likely to be indicative of something else that's wrong [03:12] mjg59: nope, unsurprisingly that didn't help [03:13] mjg59, figured. but acpi=force fixes it [03:14] mjg59, what woudl you suggest looking at ? [03:14] doko: hardware specks for the liveCD-X-issue machine? [03:14] oh, and i tried to boot warty RC2 live cd on an HP Digital Entertainment Center, and it wouldn't because the DEC sucks balls. [03:15] and i almost got myself writ up for it, too. [03:15] srbaker: Not sure [03:15] Probably interrupt related [03:15] if it's a Tosh, defenestration seems a good plan [03:15] Keybuk: Yeah, thought not. Same behaviour as before? [03:15] mjg59: yup [03:16] mjg59, oh, i notice that it sometimes disables irq 11 [03:16] Keybuk, defenestration? [03:16] Heh. Well, I'm running out of ideas. [03:16] srbaker: Throw through a window. Opening the window is optional. [03:17] mjg59: it printed some stuff on sleep about addresses, I guess that was your debugging? [03:17] mjg59, well, perhaps when i get a new lappy. right now, this Toshiba is all i can afford [03:17] and that's mostly because it was almost free. [03:17] i have kids and their welfare bum mother to support. [03:18] Keybuk: Yeah [03:18] anyways. the install process goes well. [03:18] The second and third should be the same [03:18] it's starting gnome that gave me problems [03:18] they were [03:18] Cool [03:19] So the contents of the wakeup vector are set and still correct immediately before suspend [03:19] what did you guys use to build the arty live cd? i need to build debian-based live cds, are there good tools available? [03:21] srbaker: morphix [03:21] mjg59: heh, that sounds sane :) [03:21] morning [03:22] srbaker: writing the 'what we did for a livecd' page on the wiki is on my todo list for next week [03:22] there's a few notable things I've noticed [03:22] 1) the screen remains "off", not just black [03:22] lamont, thank you [03:22] 2) after a short while not resuming, the fans increase in power as it gets warm (even with a kernel with no fan control, so this is hardware doing it I guess) [03:23] 3) the caps lock key works with acpi_sleep=s3_mode, but nothing else [03:23] lamont, i have a medium-sized contract to put my kiosk software on my livecd [03:23] erm, a livecd. [03:24] that's actually how i got the toshiba lappy. [03:24] ah/ [03:24] Keybuk: ? [03:25] note that the liveCD should work on a subset of the hardware that the install CD does (different hw detection missese some stuff - will be merged in hoary [03:25] If you pass acpi_sleep=s3_mode, you get working caps lock? [03:25] well, the key turns the light on and off [03:25] That's interesting [03:25] Because that's under software control [03:25] isn't it under hardware control for a small period? [03:26] BIOS control [03:26] hey lamont [03:27] That's weird. And only under acpi_sleep=s3_mode ? [03:27] well, I've noticed it twice, the second was under s3_mode [03:27] and I've tried it under other times, and it didn't help === Keybuk shall try now, hold on [03:27] Hmm. Very strange. [03:28] Keybuk: nice idea [03:28] lamont, my current kiosk software installs to harddrive using mondo. :P [03:28] is there a uml firefox plugin? [03:28] lamont, the hardware for the kiosks are all identical. hw detection isn't important [03:28] === cenerentola [~cenerento@ppp-82-84-140-79.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:28] The only thing the acpi_sleep things do is twiddle what the kernel does to the video hardware [03:28] sabdfl: ask mdz, it's one of his fetishes [03:28] mjg59: that's what I thought [03:28] it's a radeon, so it's known fucking iritating [03:30] srbaker: bootcd might do the trick for a fixed config... [03:31] although I've never used that === lamont wanders off to meet the day, bbl [03:32] Keybuk: In general, using vgacon makes life massively easier [03:32] I understood the new thought on this was to vgapost in the radeon init sequence and use radeonfb [03:33] lamont, well, fixed config is the "main" usage, but i want it to be demonstrable on random hw [03:34] mjg59: nope, can't replicate that now === sid77 [~sid77@ppp-158-136.30-151.libero.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:36] Keybuk: Weird [03:36] hi, all :) [03:36] Keybuk: Yeah, you /can/ do it that way. But that's not a very generic solution. [03:36] srbaker: easy way, cdbackup + installed discover. [03:36] does the video init happen before or after where you put the beeping ? [03:36] Getting this working with vesafb is going to be a real nightmare [03:36] Keybuk: After [03:36] But I've taken the beeping out now [03:37] ok, was wondering whether that was hard-crashing it or something [03:37] if I suspend with caps lock on, the light doesn't light up again on wake-up [03:37] geh. time to job hunt today. [03:37] ttyl === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:39] Hmm. vesafb-ng might be a better bet. [03:40] and suspended with all fans on, and non of them spin up on wakeup === ctalkep [~ctalkep@212.21.138.21] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:40] hi there? [03:40] any chance that daf is here? [03:40] ctalkep: perhaps later [03:41] carlos, thanks. can't find him for so l ong:) === sid77 is now known as sid77_ [03:41] but I'm not sure if he will enter into this channel [03:41] hmm, he's here [03:41] :-P [03:41] but away [03:42] well [03:42] so as soon as he wakes up... === sid77_ is now known as sid77 [03:42] sleepy guy:) [03:42] wanted to get info on translation contribution [03:43] if anyne here can help, i won't stalk him so hard:) [03:45] ctalkep: which kind of info do you need? [03:45] as basic as possible, i wanted to start the bulgarian translation, and need to know where do i start [03:46] <__daniel> carlos, ctalkep: good starting point would be the debian bulgarian l10n status, wouldnt it? [03:47] __daniel: yes [03:47] ctalkep: We don't have (yet) ready the translation tools to handle translations directly [03:48] <__daniel> ctalkep, bg is the code for bulgaria? [03:48] yep [03:48] but as __daniel suggest, you could start now contributing to Debian, GNOME and other projects directly because we will get also those translations back [03:48] <__daniel> http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/bg_BG [03:49] oh, did not know that [03:50] ctalkep: as soon as we have our l10n infrastructure in place we will announce it in our mailing list and website [03:51] oh, this info is pretty enough for me [03:51] so i'll just start with the debian then [03:51] <__daniel> ctalkep, cool you'd like to contribute! :-) [03:53] yes:) [03:54] btw [03:55] i manage several sites and i would like to put on some banners etc. where do i get, like, website ki? [03:55] i mean website kit [03:56] <__daniel> bye everyone [03:57] bye [04:08] okay, this is *fucked* up [04:08] i logged into my ubuntu laptop for the first time 15 minutes ago [04:08] it *just* loaded the trash can and workspace switcher [04:08] something's not right [04:09] when i click the computer menu, it takes about 30 seconds for it to show up [04:12] anyone else having these problems? [04:14] afaik ubuntu desktop isn't so rich of icon, isn't it right to just load the trash and the switcher? [04:15] (in the lower menu) [04:15] srbaker: try booting with noapic and pci=noacpi [04:20] srbaker: It would help if you could check whether this is happening with all processes [04:22] mjg59, yeah, after rebooting, it appears that everything is slowed down [04:22] Keybuk, i have acpi=force on [04:23] just a second [04:23] srbaker: that's nice ... that's not what I asked :o) [04:23] noapic turns off APIC support, APIC != ACPI [04:23] pci=noacpi turns off ACPI for IRQ routeing ... on a laptop as old as yours, that might be bust [04:24] 2.6.9 has the useful feature that it doesn't enable the APIC if the BIOS disabled it [04:24] Which is the sane behaviour [04:24] heh, Linux in "ignoring BIOS" shocker [04:24] <2.6.9 will force enable the APIC by default. Which is, uh, stupid. [04:25] though strangely my desktop's APIC isn't disabled by BIOS and needs noapic [04:26] whereas my laptop's is disabled by BIOS, but enabling it isn't harmful [04:26] have there been any reports of lockups during the postinstall run of apt? [04:27] kylem: you sure it's locking up, and not just thinking? [04:27] okay, i lied. the rest of the system was fine, the gnome was busted [04:27] Keybuk, numlock no longer works. [04:27] with noapic and pci=noacpi, the whole system slows down [04:28] it seems to die at "Preconfiguring" just after "Extracting templates" but before making any package-specific output. [04:30] Keybuk, still no change. [04:30] Keybuk, i tried with noapic and nolapic, ntohing better. [04:31] Keybuk, sarge seems to work fine, if i use acpi=force and nothing else [04:36] hornbeck, plovs: we're updated the wiki software [04:36] also, removed the ability to add non-wiki pages to /wiki/ [04:36] and i'm moving some of the non-wiki stuff that was in /wiki/ to /support/documentation/ [04:36] okay, this is going to have to wait [04:45] bye averyone === cenerentola [~cenerento@ppp-82-84-140-79.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj [~robertj@66-188-77-153.cpe.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:04] hey all. Is there a problem with SDL's configuration? Battle for Wesnoth does not give sound unless you elevate your permissions [05:05] a sudo true && wesnoth is enough to get the job done [05:06] search/file @ bugzilla for that [05:28] sabdfl, are you updating or did you finish it and where did my pages go? (i don't care i was just playing,but they're gone) [05:28] plovs: not gone [05:28] i wrote ^^^ that i was moving them [05:29] we only want wiki pages in the /wiki/ directory, thanks for finding that bug :-) [05:29] so we've fixed it now you can only create wiki pages in there [05:29] and i've moved your folders to /support/ and /support/documentation/ [05:29] sabdfl, ok [05:29] plovs: please take care with what you write on the site, it can get published immediately [05:30] did you have a cold? [05:30] "Workig with video on your Ububtu Desktop" >:-) [05:35] sabdfl, yes, this is eastern europe it's already cold here :) [05:35] ;-) [05:35] this is london it's always wet here [05:36] sabdfl, where should we work, in support or in wiki, or both? [05:36] plovs: i think it's best to develop new stuff in the wiki [05:36] because every member can edit content there [05:36] more open [05:37] then when the content is stable, move it into the doc area [05:38] sabdfl, ok, can we have a toplink to the wiki then? [05:38] toplink? [05:39] sabdfl, at the top of the page it says: ubuntu community support planet [05:39] sabdfl, could be wiki [05:41] which page? [05:42] plovs: ^? [05:43] on:site-edit press:home, now i can't get to the wiki [05:45] plovs: yes, i took it out of the "published" state [05:45] until monday when we have moved the content across successfully [05:46] you can still get there with site-edit.../wiki/ [05:49] sabdfl, sure, thanks [05:49] enjoy === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:50] sabdfl, one last bug, there is edit, preview but no cancel??? [05:51] sabdfl, on the wiki that is [05:52] plovs: hmmm.... i don't think it saves it if you don't click save [05:52] but you're right, there should be a cancel button [05:54] sabdfl, where do i send these kind of questions ubuntu-devel ubuntu-doc, irc? [05:57] sabdfl, hmmm and I can no longer create folders in wiki, but i can in support? === bob2 [rob@202.60.66.46] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:07] plovs: hmm... not sure what the situation is with the wiki and folders [06:10] sabdfl, i have add page but not like i used to have add folder, etc. I made a page private, then I could no longer access it ??? [06:10] sabdfl, permissions seem messed up [06:11] plovs: this is all new, we'll have to work out the permissions [06:11] first, which page, i'll restore it [06:15] in the root of the wiki, called page.2004 i hadn't named it, i tried not saving as a way to cancel...doesn't work :) anyway i go have dinner [06:19] plovs: can't see it, i think it was never saved === ddaa [~ddaa@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [06:49] sabdfl: the plone wiki doesn't seem to support the hierarchical moin structure properly [06:49] I can't seem to link to the parent of a page, or another page relative to it [06:50] it just reverts my change [06:50] mdz: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewWikiAnnouncement/ [06:51] we have a limited number of options [06:51] for the moment i think it best just to shorten and rename [06:51] WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule -> WartyReleaseSchedule === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c55.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:52] <__daniel> re [06:52] good news though, we got moin table support unexpectedly soon [06:53] I'd gladly give up tables for hierarchies [06:53] we can sort of get them [06:53] we can add new wikis inside old ones possibly === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | Hoary kickoff meeting Monday, 2004-10-25 1600UTC [06:53] but the namespaces are then b0rked [06:54] so, inside a subsidiary wiki you would not be able to refer to pages in the parent folder === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:09] mdz: maybe we can use interwiki links for the hierarchies [07:09] but it would mean that every link in a subsidiary directory to a page in the top dir would need to be like MainWiki:PageName [07:09] unless we did some funky acquisition voodoo [07:10] also, this new wiki has the concept of wiki structure separate from namespace [07:10] try clicking on "wiki contents" [07:10] you can reparent a page by going to the page, putting the new parent page name in the field at the bottom and selecting "reparent" [07:14] sabdfl: sounds scary [07:15] mdz: not really [07:15] sabdfl: where is the documentation for ReStructuredText? [07:15] try it [07:15] ah, I see it [07:15] links are a little funky [07:15] sabdfl, what about folders? [07:15] plovs: no go for the moment [07:16] it uses all of the same markup as moinmoin, but with _entirely different meanings_ :-) [07:16] stevea is workiing on a python script to suck 'n blow :-) [07:16] mdz: but of course [07:16] so we may have the stuff automatically transferred [07:16] how deep are the hardware folders? [07:16] just 2 levels, I think [07:17] need to flatten the namespace graciously [07:17] mdz: the reparenting thing is entirely independent of content [07:17] sabdfl, could i get the python script from stevea, when he is ready? [07:18] sabdfl: yeah, it's just that someone just spent a lot of volunteer time to break it down and make a hierarchy out of it :-/ [07:18] mdz: not really anything we can do about it, except break the wiki spec in a different way to moin's [07:18] plovs: to run it? it will only need to be run once [07:19] sabdfl, i would like to make a script to export stuff from to wiki to docbook, i could use his code as foundation [07:20] plovs ok ping him directly [07:20] but i don't think he will be parsing the content, except for the namespace issue [07:20] mainly it will just be "fetch from here, post to there" [07:21] sabdfl, ok === bob2 [rob@202.60.66.46] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:27] sabdfl: how should we go about publishing USNs on the website? Should we use the Errata facility? [07:28] mdz: yes, let's create a dedicated folder for them, which we can also publish as rss [07:28] sabdfl: how do I do that? [07:28] no idea :-) [07:28] I see how to create errata, but not a new folder [07:29] https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/search_rss?sort_on=modified&sort_order=descending&path=/ubuntu/support/documentation&portal_type=HelpCenterFAQFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterHowToFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterTutorialFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterLinkFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterErrorReferenceFolder&portal_type=HelpCenterGlossary [07:29] fiddle with that to do the rss [07:29] where do you want the folder? [07:29] dunno. support? [07:30] or maybe even at top level [07:30] hmm... security feels like it deserves its own top level folder, but that way lies madness [07:30] stop DOING that! :-) [07:30] many projects have security as a top-level item because it's important to be able to find it quickly [07:31] though, it's under a 'support' heading [07:31] ok, let's create it in support [07:31] e.g., www.debian.org and www.freebsd.org both have a hyperlink from the top level, but it's nested under 'support' === x4m [~max@106-105.241.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:32] redhat has a shortcut from the top [07:32] sabdfl, 1) do we have homepages 2) pages are signed with a number not a name [07:32] sabdfl: I think we've found The Wart, by the way [07:32] plovs: (1) maybe, (2) bug :-) [07:32] a patch was inadvertently dropped in the last kernel rev [07:33] i'd like the answer to be (1) yes and (2) fixed, will know this week [07:33] a trivial one which fixed a bunch of apic/IRQ/etc. problems [07:33] plovs: ping lulu monday? [07:33] mdz: The Wart? [07:33] kernel? [07:33] sabdfl: the one that would make me wish I could go back in time and fix it [07:33] sabdfl, ok [07:33] so let's fix it for the cd's [07:34] eek [07:34] I think it's madness at this point to change what "Ubuntu 4.10" means [07:34] wait a week, it can be 4.11 === sabdfl ducks === mdz digs around for his "sabdfl says no point releases" quote [07:35] out of curiousity what's the bug, what's the fix, where did we introduce it? [07:35] no point releases, but there's no point in printing the cd's with a known fixable Wart [07:36] we'll find a way [07:36] is the install cd maxed out in size? [07:36] sabdfl: we were building the kernel with a particular option enabled [07:36] which was flaky [07:36] which one? [07:36] CONFIG_PCI_MSI [07:36] it is =y and should be =n [07:36] doh [07:37] is the install cd full? [07:37] it was disabled in 2.6.8.1-9, with good results [07:37] and apparently it was inadvertently re-enabled in -16 [07:37] the install cd is not full [07:37] bad day down under? [07:37] dunno [07:38] i'm thinking one way out would be to put the updated kernel package on the install cd in a separate dir [07:38] but i guess there's no hook to find and install it other tha an erratum sheet [07:38] and that would be a usability mess [07:38] better to put it in warty-updates, in my opinion [07:38] sabdfl, my last wiki-question, then i'll leave it for monday but quick restructured text doesn't work on my side? [07:39] doesn't work how? [07:39] mdz: your call, but i'm not at all averse to rev'ing the shipit cd with warty-updates content [07:39] sabdfl, look at: https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/EditingWikiPages [07:40] sabdfl: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2662 [07:40] has some details [07:40] plovs: check the format list at the bottom of the page [07:40] you have selected StructuredText [07:40] which is not the same as ReStructured Text [07:41] sabdfl: herbert proposed sneaking it into a security update, but I consider that evil in the extreme === sabdfl blinks and stares [07:43] so we have warty-updates and warty-security? [07:44] which appears in the sources.list file? [07:44] warty-security is in sources.list by default, warty-updates is not [07:45] changing behaviour in a security update would be a serious breach of trust, especially this early [07:46] warty-updates makes sense to me for a more long-lived release [07:46] or, a release of a sort that will have rare releases [07:46] like if we did an "enterprise grade" [07:46] but, the flip side is that maybe this is the basis of that effort [07:47] the -updates archive becomes the place where warty matures to become warty-enterprise [07:47] right [07:48] there's no rule that says that the CD we ship has to be exactly the same as the download [07:48] our options w.r.t. the cd and iso are as follows: [07:49] do nothing, continue to ship iso and cd as they were on 20/10 [07:49] ship the cd with a fixed kernel [07:49] update both [07:49] does anybody here know what fnfx are? [07:50] is it very importnt that the through-the-mail cd be the same as the download one? [07:51] sabdfl: I feel that it is, yes [07:51] mdz: ok, the errata content type is special [07:51] sabdfl, i should leave it for monday but search as i may i don not see format at the bottom of any of my pages not edit, not contents, not view, monday->lulu? [07:51] we cause a lot of confusion if we don't have a single blob that we call Warty [07:51]