[12:01] jblack: what about gcc? [12:01] I was in favour of keeping gcc out of desktop [12:01] but, I'm against splitting the python standard library [12:01] mdz: iirc, gcc didn't come in desktop. === SteveA must go to bed now, it being 1am and all that [12:01] different issue, to my mind [12:01] I'll buy that. [12:13] i'm happy to discuss distutils again [12:33] sabdfl: it's 600k of .py files [12:33] no sensible reason to split it from the main python package that I see [12:33] it seems historical, since they had previously been distributed separately [12:33] main concern to me is its function [12:34] given that i want python to be a first class citizen on ubuntu [12:34] let's switch to -devel [12:34] mdz:^ === BradB [~bradb@modemcable165.196-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #launchpad === BradB [~bradb@modemcable165.196-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #launchpad === kiko [~kiko@200-206-134-238.async.com.br] has joined #launchpad [02:16] kiko: dude, panther ROCKS [02:16] BradB, tla speed pr0n ? [02:16] not yet [02:16] installing other stuff, but there will be much porn soon [02:16] got a new powerbook today [02:17] 15", 1.5 GHz w/ superdrive, uNF [02:17] i keep saying to myself "sheesh, it feels like i got a new computer", then i'm like "oh yeah, i did" [02:18] BradB, how much did it cost? [02:18] $4K CAD [02:18] i doubled my hardware specs [02:19] hmmm [02:19] how much is that US$? [02:19] 1.5 GHz G4, 80 G, 512 MB RAM, Panther, built-in bluetooth. [02:19] these days? $4K. :) === BradB checks [02:20] hah! [02:20] you know [02:20] about 3250 [02:20] I've been wanting to buy a powerbook for a long time now [02:20] but they are so damn expensive! [02:20] this one was worth it [02:20] I wonder [02:20] dude, this thing adjusts to ambient lighting [02:21] can you get a cheap one down there? [02:21] ack [02:21] if you turn of the lights, the screen dims [02:21] that's killer [02:21] turn em back on, goes brighter again [02:21] heh [02:21] it's insane [02:21] cheap one down where? [02:21] up in canada I guess. :) [02:22] heh [02:22] i can get one for the price i got one, that's about it [02:22] this was the souped up 15" though [02:22] the other 15" is like 600 cheaper === BradB gathers some Z3 unit test pr0n === jblack [~jblack@static-209-158-45-74.scr.east.verizon.net] has joined #launchpad === lifeless [~robertc@dsl-69.8.240.220.rns01-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #launchpad === SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #launchpad === elmo [~james@83.216.141.215] has joined #launchpad === dilys [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #launchpad === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad === kiko [~kiko@200-206-134-238.async.com.br] has joined #launchpad === mako [~mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #launchpad [02:25] kiko: several of the apps are way, way better now too [02:25] both at the good ole unix level, and os x's apps [02:26] e.g. i hated that ls -h or df -h didn't work in jaguar. tar didn't even have --exclude [02:26] now they're all sane again [02:26] Mail.app is actually looking like a reasonable (eye-candy) replacement for mutt. [02:27] it does cool little things too, like when i make a new rule, and i choose a header on which to make that rule, it auto-fills it with the value from the email i'm looking at [02:27] and does what appears to be good threading finally [02:27] heh [02:28] neat that the unix apps are coming forward [02:28] so [02:28] how much is a cheap PB up there? [02:28] the hardware's way better too. i don't have to knock over my beer anymore trying to finagle my iPod's firewire into the back of the machine, because all the ports are along the sides. [02:28] kiko: are you trying to get the newest model? [02:28] nop [02:28] the cheapest model that is still decent [02:29] hm [02:29] that'd probably be the other pb i have. i'm not looking to sell that one though. not sure. [02:29] it can be 12-13i [02:29] k, you mean? :) [02:30] er, no [02:30] heh [02:30] i for inches :) [02:30] aye [02:30] there's only a 12, i guess [02:30] yeah. [02:30] there's a sony 13i wide-screen that runs at 1280 which rocks [02:30] you can get a brand new 12-inch for 2099 CAD [02:30] but since I need something powerpc.. [02:30] really? [02:31] http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/71303/wo/3F3HnbOzBIKq3mjqmqCHqCxYROp/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.1.1.1.0.0.1.0 [02:31] somehow i paid $50 less than that page advertises for my pb [02:32] "Free Shipping", heh. [02:33] heh [02:37] that's not too expensive, is it? [02:38] nope [02:38] no point getting used [02:38] hey, if used is half-price, there is :) [02:38] well, yeah :) [02:39] are there such good deals? [02:40] there might be, but none that i know of offhand, mainly because waiting until a good deal comes along was not really an option for me [02:40] (because having exactly one machine on which to work was hectic) [02:40] yeah. [02:41] BradB: drool [02:42] sounds awesome [02:42] heh heh [02:42] is the fs better in panther? [02:42] it's the same one [02:42] i'm benchmarking running z3 unit tests right now [02:42] what's the diff between hfs+ and ufs? [02:44] for a new Z3 context object, should I subclass anything other than (object)? [02:44] there are several: what you call the thing that you mount, the path separator, case sensitivity, etc. [02:45] "context object"? [02:45] context is just something; something is a fairly vague thing [02:45] you mean a content class? [02:47] -dmwaters(dmwaters@dmwaters-gentoo.staff.freenode)- {global notice} Hi all! We appologize for that uh interuption. a script was ran that accidently restarted several of the ircds. Blame alindeman :) Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! [02:48] yes, a content class [02:48] i've got a content class that works fine, except that I can't use set_schema [02:48] it doesn't work [02:48] but it works fine if i use set_attributes [02:48] it needs to implement a schema [02:48] or, maybe it doesn't [02:49] it does [02:49] what's the error? === kiko is now known as kiko-afk [02:52] forbidden attribute [02:52] 'sbizarre [02:52] are you sure the things you mention in set_schema are in the schema? [02:52] works just fine with set_attrbutes="x y z" [02:53] yes, as Attribute()'s [02:55] mm [02:56] http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/contentobject.html explains it in more detail. Maybe you need to inherit from IContained. [02:56] we probably want to be using set_schema consistently [02:59] but hm, SQLBase is ultimately just inheriting from SQLObject. [03:09] i think this is an egg-man bug [03:11] heh === BradB is now known as BradB|out [04:33] I'm trying to do that blasted zope3 tutorial again. I've got an import problem on the buddydemo. Any zope guys conversant with it? [05:30] Ok. figured it out. the programmer tutorial is wrong. It shouldn't go in src/buddydemo, it should go in lib/python/buddydemo === BradB|out is now known as BradB [05:31] jblack: sounds like you're using a release. perhaps it was assuming an svn checkout. [05:45] BradB: You know zope3? [05:45] I know how to do some things in Zope 3. [05:47] Possibly enough to tell me what went wrong in the programmer tutorial this time? [05:47] I'm getting a gripe in buddyemo/configure.zcml, line 6.0 "NameError: name 'zope' is not defined [05:48] I just did slides 11-20 [05:48] (and I'm more than happy to scp up the instance to your machine for you to look at [05:49] BradB: figured out a little bit of the zope3 widget machinery [05:49] sabdfl: Able to use things that inherit from object, hopefully. [05:49] (with set_schema) [05:50] jblack: it'd be easier if you just paste your buddydemo/configure.zcml at paste.husk.org [05:50] BradB: no, didn't get that right [05:51] jblack: I bought a new powerbook btw. It's shiny. [05:51] i do suspect a zope3 issue there [05:51] http://paste.husk.org/1848 [05:51] sabdfl: What things did you learn about widgets? [05:51] basically, how to subclass Text, and the TextAreaWidget, so that the bug edit form is a bit neater [05:52] it's a shitload of work for a very small bit of neater [05:52] ah, from the chapters in the Z3DG? [05:52] bradb: Yeah [05:52] but i suppose once it's done it's done [05:53] yep [05:53] i'm trying to figure out how we make the generated forms look as good as the handcrafted ones [05:53] if it can be done, then i'll buy into the autogenerated thing [05:54] sabdfl: I think it's very, very doable. Afterall, for 80-90% if the add/edit forms we haven't, there probably isn't a need for them to look really customized (uniformity and consistency are, afterall, Good Things)...it's just a matter of figuring out what visual knobs can be turned with CSS and the like. [05:54] s/we haven't/we have/ [05:55] same is probably true of the forms we haven't :-) [05:55] i've figured out the actual widget bit [05:55] heh [05:55] now need to figure out the wrapper [05:55] the bit that puts the summary etc there [05:55] the text [05:55] right now it uses the title [05:55] jblack: it's one of two problems. either your pythonpath isn't correct or you need to import that module specifically in zcml. [05:56] but the hand crafted fields look a lot better, present more info [05:56] jblack: (probably the latter) [05:56] i'm going to try to figure out the rest tomorrow [05:56] Yeah. Odds are that ubuntu has a sane importpath. [05:56] pardon. sane pythonpath. [05:56] sabdfl: sounds promising though [05:57] it would be odd that a zope instance doesn't import zope though, wouldn't it? [05:57] night all [05:57] night sabdfl [05:58] sleep well boss. [05:58] jblack: there are easy ways of testing this though [05:59] mm, no, scratch that (there are, but scratch that) [05:59] I haven't gotten the unit testing working yet either. [05:59] Ohhh, yes I have. [06:01] Though something still ain't right there. [06:01] >>> bud = Buddy('Bob', 'Smith') [06:01] >>> bud.name() [06:01] jblack: how are you starting z3? [06:02] I was trying bin/runzope [06:04] btw, before I added the interface stuff, I was able to add buddies in the web interface. [06:05] can you paste the whole traceback? i'm learning here too, because i've never seen an error like that, but it's almost surely something really straightforward, given enough context. [06:07] http://paste.husk.org/1849 [06:08] Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: a basic widget for bug summaries (patch-678) [06:11] jblack: for one, you've got a syntax error in the zcml [06:11] for ".interfaces.IBuddy" [06:12] I believe you, but that's a straight paste from the tutorial [06:13] through an = sign in there and see if that changes anything [06:13] after than, try commenting out that require and see what happens [06:13] s/than/that/ [06:13] http://paste.husk.org/1850 [06:15] (thats slide 16) [06:15] There's nothing in the name method. Maybe the slide cut it. [06:16] nope, it's an interface [06:16] but there's either a syntax error in that python code as well (indentation error), or a mix of tabs and spaces. [06:18] I did find the missing = in configure.zcml though [06:21] oh. found a missing import [06:21] and a missing import re, and it works. [06:23] Now if I could just figure out why it stopped listening on port 8081... [06:27] hehe [06:28] Thanks for the help bradb. I'm back on track [06:29] cool, no prob [06:37] WHoo! === BradB is now known as BradB|zzz === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net === ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #launchpad === mako [~mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #launchpad === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad === spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #launchpad === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === dilys [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === elmo [~james@83.216.141.215] has joined #launchpad === SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #launchpad === lifeless [~robertc@dsl-69.8.240.220.rns01-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #launchpad === jblack [~jblack@static-209-158-45-74.scr.east.verizon.net] has joined #launchpad === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #launchpad === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net === ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #launchpad === mako [~mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #launchpad === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad === spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #launchpad === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === dilys [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #launchpad === elmo [~james@83.216.141.215] has joined #launchpad === SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #launchpad === lifeless [~robertc@dsl-69.8.240.220.rns01-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #launchpad === jblack [~jblack@static-209-158-45-74.scr.east.verizon.net] has joined #launchpad === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #launchpad === carlos_ [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad === carlos_ is now known as carlos === ddaa [~ddaa@nemesis.xlii.org] has joined #launchpad === BradB|zzz is now known as BradB === BradB [~bradb@modemcable165.196-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #launchpad [05:12] SteveA: around? === BradB is now known as BradB|out === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad [09:01] hey sabdfl [09:01] hiya SteveA [09:02] well it's been an interesting tour of zope3 form autogeneration this weekend :-) [09:02] is it hot or not? [09:02] i'm trying to establish if i can get some of our autogenerated forms to looks as god as the hand-crafted ones [09:02] wel... [09:02] large amounts of effort for little return so far [09:02] skimpy docs, the usual [09:03] wanted to lob a few eggs in your direction but didn't want to disturb the w/e [09:03] when I used it on a project a while ago, I ended up nor using the standard "edit form" stuff, but using a custom variant on it. [09:03] seems that stub knows a bit about it and has been laying the foundations in malone [09:03] I haven't kept up with changes to it, though [09:04] you would be better placed than me to do custom variants on machinery that's a little outside my immediate ken :-) [09:04] anyhow, i'm slowly coming to grips with it [09:04] slowly [09:05] the thing I found was that is was very easy to waste a lot of time making a particular form work, if that form goes outside one of the assumptions behind the autogenerated form machinery. [09:05] if you notice these soon enough, and do them manually, it's okay [09:05] if you don't... lots of painful and non-obvious coding around things [09:06] well, limi has set the bar quite high in terms of the look we should expect from our forms [09:06] i think we are going to have to produce a set of custom field and widget classes [09:06] i want to hammer on this a while and then we can discuss a general system for the team [09:07] i am thinking at the moment that we might produce a mixin class for widget and field [09:07] because mainly i want to put the same decoration on any kind of field [09:07] but there are also potentially custom requirements for context-aware fields [09:07] not sure we'd need new fields, except where we've got a truely new kind of thing [09:08] I think pov have done a lot of work on these [09:08] certainly marius has been filing and fixing bugs in it recently [09:08] current fields allow for title, description, required [09:08] yes, found him on a couple of proposals related to this [09:09] which sounded rather sane [09:10] you have a good weekend? [09:10] not bad. more of a lazy weekend, catching up on sleep and generally hanging out [09:10] yours? [09:11] tried to sleep but had total insomnia [09:12] try more exercise? [09:13] then again, I find if I exercise too much, it stops me from sleeping [09:14] yes i think i'm the latter stage [09:14] too much to think about at the moment [09:14] ok, so i'm using the normal addform machinery [09:15] with a custom pt [09:16] there's this sort of useful-looking hook: [09:16]

[09:16]

[09:16] how do i pass information to that? [09:16] do you know about METAL ? [09:16] If not, I should explain just a little about that first. [09:17] we use two namespaces in page templates: tal: and metal: [09:17] the metal: is for "macro processing". The metal directives get processed first, and then the resulting template is treated as a whole for tal: expressions. [09:18] think of it like #includes. [09:18] yes [09:19] The div above defines a slot called "extra_info". You can fill it from your template with

[09:20] This is at the top of the pt: [09:20] metal:use-macro="context/@@malone_template/master" [09:20] where is that hook that you pasted? [09:21] about halfway into the page [09:21] in which page? [09:21] lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/default-addform.pt [09:22] i've actually copied it to bug-addform and started to use that [09:23] i'm adding some of the plone-style widget decoration [09:23] fieldset etc [09:25] also, i'll want to figure out this line: [09:25]

[09:25] where is widget_rows defined? [09:26] hey it's sunday don't boil too many eggs on my account [09:27] ok, i found widget_macros.pt [09:28] in lib/zope/app/form/browser [09:28] i'll want to customise that, how do i do that? === sabdfl can hear the hamster's wheel spinning [09:28] workrave [09:29] in the zcml directive for addforms, there's a 'template' attribute, and a 'default_template' attribute [09:33] the template is what i'm customising already [09:33] what's the default template? [09:33] oh, red-herring [09:34] :-) [09:35] as far as I can tell, the extra_info slot is for when you're using the standard zope template, and you want to be able to do certain customizations without coming up with a new template of your own. [09:35] can the view push data into the slots at all? [09:35] oh, so the standard rendering of this uses another template and fills that slot? [09:36] I think the way you're supposed to provide your own template for this is that you write a minmal template that uses macros from the default template [09:36] how about the second question, about customising widget_macros.pt [09:36] oh right [09:36] so, you don't end up copy-pasting the code from zope, but just including the bits you want [09:36] so instead of copying it [09:36] wish there were docs on this, though [09:37] just write a really small one that pushes in heading and extra info etc [09:37] ok, that's quite nice [09:37] because we can do a single master addform template for launchpad [09:37] yeah, I guess so. I think you'd need some way of specifying that you want to use macros from the standard add form [09:37] yeah, that would work [09:37] in fact, we'd need a StandardMacros object then [09:37] now, about the second questions [09:38] widget_macros [09:38] how do i override that to be something else? [09:38] that's what we did in zope3 -- rather than have to remember which template exactly has the macros you want, you have an object that collects macros from a bunch of useful "basic" template [09:38] s === SteveA looks at widget_macros.pt [09:39] i want to redefine widget_rows [09:39] in the configure.zcml of that package, I see that you can get the widget_macros.pt template as a view on anything, called widget_macros [09:40] well, there are two ways to do this [09:40] you can redefine the widget_macros view for the launchpad layer [09:41] most straightforward way is to make your own copy-paste-altered version of widget_macros.py [09:41] right, just copy it and customise it and make it available under a different name [09:41] er .pt [09:41] yes [09:41] but, make it available under the *same name* [09:41] but in the launchpad layer [09:41] o.....k.... [09:42] by using the launchpad layer, we're saying "we can override the defaults in zope in the context of the launchpad application" [09:42] rosetta and malone layers extend the launchpad layer [09:42] how do i register it for the launchpad layer? [09:43] for="*" [09:43] name="widget_macros" [09:43] layer="canonical.launchpad.layers/LaunchpadLayer" [09:43] permission="zope.Public" [09:43] template="widget_macros.pt" [09:43] /> [09:43] i'm going to put the registration into zcml/bug.zcml for the moment, because those are the add/edit forms i want to fix first [09:43] with the template in the correct place, of course [09:43] so, whatever is currently using widget_macros will get it as context/@@widget_macros [09:43] is there a more appropriate zcml file for this? [09:44] and, it will automatically get your version inside launchpad [09:44] launchpadlayer-stuff.zcml ? [09:44] launchpad-widgets.zcml ? launchpad-forms.zcml ? [09:44] the latter, I suppose [09:45] this is all about how we want forms to look in launchpad [09:46] let me get it right in the bug stuff, then we can move it [09:46] k [09:46] can i replace * with something more localised? [09:47] canonical.launchpad.layers/LaunchpadLayer [09:47] is the / intentional? [09:47] no, it is wrong [09:47] should be a . [09:47] you could replace * with IMaloneBugThing or whatever you're working on [09:47] if the change is meant only for that one thing [09:48] is it the interface of the context? [09:48] yes, exactly [09:48] or the container that has the addform? [09:48] I expect this will be looked up as context/@@widget_macros [09:48] oh, that could get a bit more complex [09:48] there's IAddings involved there -- views on views [09:48] erm -- maybe stick with "*" [09:49] I should go make food, and then watch donnie darko on dvd. [09:50] weird movie [09:52] picked up the dvd at the airport for three quid [09:52] as the director's cut was out for about 20 [09:53] and being heavily advertised === SteveA --> cooking [09:55] directors cut might be interesting [10:05] SteveA: can't seem to access my custom copy of the widget [10:05] it's not being used, the old one is [10:49] As a debugging measure, try declaring it not in the launchpad layer, but without a layer attribute, and declare it for zope.interface.Interface, not for * [10:50] that's a crappy way of getting it registered, but if it works, it shows that you're not doing anything wrong, and for some reason the layer isn't being used. [10:50] (it was too late at night to watch a full film after eating, so we've settled for an episode or two of futurama instead) [11:22] still around? [11:22] stevea: ^? [11:24] yeah, just about === SteveA pings sabdfl [11:26] yo [11:26] so i'm now crafting the actual template [11:26] the one which will fill the slots of the default_template [11:27] and i've no idea what that one's header should look like [11:27] [11:27] ? [11:27] should it refer explicitly to the launchpad-addform.pt? [11:27] or is that all handled by the machinery? [11:27] and here's where it gets interesting [11:27] the addform template itself is clearly referring to a master template [11:28] is launchpad-addform.pt registered as a view on anything? [11:28] so can these templates be layered in a stack? [11:28] yes, it works as the view on a bug add [11:28] i' now trying to generalise it [11:28] so that for new add forms we just make a tiny template [11:28] that has the appropriate document description, headings etc [11:28] provided each template is registered as a view on something, sure, you can use many of them using bits of each other [11:29] ok, so let's assume there are three of them [11:29] master [11:29] the general model is using a macro, which has slots in it [11:29] default-addform [11:29] table-addform [11:29] in the default-addform, when there is a fill-slot, that would fill a slot in the master? [11:30] and when there's a define-slot, that's something the table-addform can fill? [11:30] assuming default-addform has a use-macro refering to a macro of the master template [11:31] you're filling a slot of whatever macro you're inside of, in the code of the template the fill-slot is in [11:32] so for the table-addform do i need a use-macro? [11:33] or does the addform machinery automatically do that [11:33] given that it has default_template for the default-addform [11:34] from the code I saw, the default_template is what is used if you don't supply a "template" [11:35] erm that doesn't make sense to me [11:35] you don't need to supply a 'template' in your zcml [11:35] why have both "template" and "default_template" attributes [11:35] there is a default 'template' that is used instead [11:35] 'default_template' isn't meant to be used in zcml [11:35] ah. [11:35] it can be used if you subclass the class, I think [11:35] that's not what i understood previously [11:36] it seems as if this addform, which is copied from the zope dir, is designed to be used as an "intermediate" template [11:36] I'm still not sure I understand -- I only skimmed throught the code. [11:36] as i described above [11:36] in any event, say i want to refer to the template directly, from another template [11:36] how do i do that? [11:36] I suppose it would use the macros and slots of the master template [11:37] if you want to use macros from a template [11:37]