| mdz | Kamion: warty has bigger warts than that :-) | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lucas_ | Hi, is there some info somewhere on the wiki about how to build custom distribs based on ubuntu ? | 12:01 |
| tseng | lucas_: i think thats a goal of hoary | 12:01 |
| Kamion | mdz: oh yeah | 12:01 |
| lucas_ | tseng: arg, not before hoary ? I would have liked to build a warty-derivate ... | 12:02 |
| mdz | lucas_: you can certainly derive from warty if you would like | 12:02 |
| mdz | there is no step-by-step howto | 12:03 |
| lucas_ | mdz: who could give me an overview of how to build a derivate that only adds a dozen of packages ? | 12:04 |
| === Kamion wonders vaguely if such a person exists yet. :-) | ||
| mdz | lucas_: it would be very nearly the same process as building a Debian derivative | 12:05 |
| lucas_ | if I knew how to build a debian derivate, I wouldn't be there asking :) | 12:05 |
| Kamion | the archives of the debian-custom mailing list may have useful information | 12:05 |
| Kamion | I think there's a "debian-cdd" howto (or some such name) | 12:06 |
| jdub | pants off dudes | 12:06 |
| tseng | zi[ | 12:06 |
| tseng | *p | 12:06 |
| === Kamion squirts a water pistol at jdub | ||
| lucas_ | ok, thanks for the pointer | 12:07 |
| jdub | ow! morning! cold! | 12:07 |
| mdz | I think I am learning about this "cold" | 12:07 |
| mdz | it was only ~16C yesterday | 12:08 |
| Kamion | wuss | 12:08 |
| mdz | I had to wear sleeves! | 12:08 |
| === mdz gathers firewood frantically | ||
| jdub | rock, the dude who ITPed ifolder has passed it over :) | 12:09 |
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| Mitario | lo everyone | 12:14 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Make ifolder non-sucky | 12:15 |
| jdub | tberman is helping with that | 12:15 |
| jdub | hey Mitario | 12:15 |
| tseng | or use epittance instead | 12:15 |
| jdub | it performs a different function | 12:16 |
| === jdub will look at it more after someone like alexl gets his mitts on it | ||
| tseng | 1 | 12:18 |
| === rastaman [~sgtshatta@24-193-25-90.nyc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| tseng | i think beagle cvs is broken atm, make in the top dir does nothing. | 12:35 |
| tseng | so much for packaging | 12:35 |
| === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-024-165.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Night | 12:58 |
| mdz | Kamion: which d-i bit creates /sbin/unconfigured.sh? | 01:05 |
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| lucas_ | mdz: which d-i bit copies all .deb from the cdrom to the HD ? | 01:21 |
| elmo_ | archive-copier | 01:21 |
| lucas_ | I thought it was archive-copier, but I read its code | 01:21 |
| lucas_ | from the code and apt-cdrom's manpage, it only adds the cdrom entry in /etc/apt/sources.list | 01:21 |
| lucas_ | was apt-cdrom hacked to change that ? | 01:21 |
| tseng | bob2: i see the syntax error in tomboy now | 01:21 |
| lucas_ | elmo: I read the apt-cdrom source code and still can't find a place where it copies the .deb to the HD. | 01:21 |
| tseng | hornbeck: finishing up libdbus-cil pkg now | 01:21 |
| tseng | hornbeck: care to test on a clean box? | 01:21 |
| mdz | lucas_: apt-cdrom does not do any copying. archive-copier does | 01:24 |
| lucas_ | oh, got it | 01:25 |
| lucas_ | I was only reading the "prebaseconfig" script | 01:25 |
| lucas_ | postinst makes more sense :) | 01:25 |
| hornbeck | tseng: yes I would like to try it | 01:26 |
| hornbeck | is it in your repos? | 01:26 |
| tseng | one moment | 01:26 |
| tseng | and not on the box you already installed dbus from cvs on | 01:26 |
| tseng | since we wont easily know if the dep is filled by the package, or something you installed already | 01:26 |
| tseng | eg, do we need anything more than the dll's | 01:27 |
| hornbeck | tseng: I do not think so, I could be wrong though | 01:27 |
| hornbeck | its rare but it has been known to happen :) | 01:28 |
| tseng | hm i guess it needs the .pc also | 01:28 |
| tseng | oops | 01:28 |
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| tseng | daniels: ping | 01:31 |
| lucas_ | mdz: which bit of d-i installs the packages in ubuntu-desktop but not in base after the reboot ? | 01:35 |
| mdz | lucas_: base-config | 01:36 |
| lucas_ | oh ok | 01:36 |
| tseng | hornbeck: libdbus-cil is in my repo, with all the +cvs dbus stuff | 01:38 |
| tseng | hornbeck: i took it from thom so im not sure if it is new enough for beagle.. dated 10/7 | 01:39 |
| hornbeck | tseng: I will check in alittle while | 01:39 |
| hornbeck | I am doing school work right now | 01:39 |
| hornbeck | any clue why blam resets to defaults everytime it launches? | 01:40 |
| lucas_ | ok, I now have a much clearer view of how d-i works. I'll write a nice howto if I succeed in building an Ubuntu-derivate =) thanks for answering my questions ; good night. | 01:42 |
| tseng | oh hornbeck | 01:52 |
| tseng | could you send me that tarball after all, my cvs checkout seems b0rk | 01:52 |
| === T-Bone is now known as T-None | ||
| tseng | when you have a chance that is | 01:53 |
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| __daniel | sleep tight | 02:02 |
| hornbeck | yeah tseng | 02:12 |
| hornbeck | can I get a mail for you | 02:13 |
| tseng | brandon@smarterits.com | 02:13 |
| hornbeck | on its way | 02:14 |
| hornbeck | evolution is crapping out on sending attachments | 02:17 |
| hornbeck | will try to send from other account | 02:17 |
| hornbeck | tseng: now it is on its way | 02:23 |
| tseng | hornbeck: er dude | 02:25 |
| tseng | i meant beagle | 02:25 |
| tseng | did i say dbus? | 02:25 |
| hornbeck | haha, yeah | 02:26 |
| hornbeck | ok I will send beagle | 02:26 |
| tseng | thanks | 02:26 |
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| hornbeck | tseng: now that one is on its way | 02:27 |
| tseng | great | 02:28 |
| hornbeck | tseng: you should shoot for a gecko-sharp-0.6 also :-) | 02:28 |
| tseng | perhaps | 02:28 |
| hornbeck | nice | 02:28 |
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| srbaker_ | okay, after a full day of ubuntu on my laptop, i'm even more impressed than before. great work, guys | 02:39 |
| mdz | thanks | 02:46 |
| jdub | " | 02:53 |
| jdub | i've done with install snd_via82xx /bin/true" | 02:53 |
| jdub | ^ eeeeeek! | 02:53 |
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| lamont | jdub/mdz: I think rc2 == release. thoughts? | 03:06 |
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| hornbeck | kinda neat how when you move around the website you are logged in one page than not another, good way to keep people from being able to do anything | 03:27 |
| hornbeck | hmmm | 03:33 |
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| mdz | hornbeck: you can use https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/ until that's fixed | 03:49 |
| hornbeck | mdz: thanks | 03:53 |
| hornbeck | man that is way to complicated | 03:55 |
| srbaker_ | anyone know how i can find out when to expect ubuntu cds? i'm planning our LUG meeting, and i want to know which one my "introduction to ubuntu" talk (with cds) will take place | 03:57 |
| mdz | hornbeck: it's a bug | 04:00 |
| mdz | lamont: I think we have no choice :-) | 04:01 |
| mdz | srbaker_: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/007832.html | 04:01 |
| === mdz gleefully closes an FTBFS-on-m68k bug | ||
| mdz | aw, daniels beat me to it | 04:20 |
| lamont | mdz: true, I think there are bugs that would be nice to have fixed, but I think they mostly come back to hwdetection diffs and minifo :-( | 04:48 |
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| daniels | mdz: quick draw, yo | 04:51 |
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| fabbione | morning guys | 05:02 |
| daniels | morning papa fabbione | 05:03 |
| hornbeck | good morning | 05:03 |
| hornbeck | night here :-) | 05:03 |
| fabbione | hey kid | 05:06 |
| fabbione | daniels: we will probably have a kitchen the first week you will be here :-))) | 05:08 |
| daniels | awesome! | 05:08 |
| fabbione | and hopefully the bigger office during the second one | 05:08 |
| daniels | your timezone shift is bad, dude | 05:08 |
| fabbione | i know | 05:08 |
| fabbione | it's not like i am having fun waking up at 5 am every day | 05:10 |
| amu | ;) | 05:22 |
| fabbione | amu: you are not supposed to be awake either ;) | 05:30 |
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| amu | fabbione: correct, i lie straight on a slopematte in the southseas, 2 pretty girls make breakfast for me, wow i dream stilD[D[D[D[Dl | 05:37 |
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| fabbione | amu: eheheh | 05:53 |
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| doko | morning fabbione, did you get the debhelper things working? | 07:26 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion and support on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | Hoary kickoff meeting Monday, 2004-10-25 1600UTC in #ubuntu-meeting | ||
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| fabbione | xmlconfig.c:912: error: `program_invocation_short_name' undeclared (first use in this function) | 07:41 |
| fabbione | and errno.h is included | 07:41 |
| fabbione | what am I missing here? | 07:41 |
| Keybuk | #define __USE_GNU ? | 07:42 |
| daniels | Keybuk: er, _GNU_SOURCE? | 07:43 |
| Keybuk | Redhat found a vulnerability in fileutils (ls and mkdir), that could allow a remote attacker to execute arbitrary code with root privileges. | 07:44 |
| Keybuk | ^ ouch | 07:44 |
| Keybuk | though highly odd *how* you'd do that without making ls or mkdir setuid root | 07:45 |
| Keybuk | Received: from 2ens11.uta.edu (2ens11.uta.edu [129.107.2.122] ) by | 07:46 |
| Keybuk | menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951303B0D8A for | 07:46 |
| Keybuk | <gnome-announce-list@gnome.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:00:13 -0400 (EDT) | 07:46 |
| === Keybuk decides that mail is highly suspicious | ||
| daniels | Keybuk: also, Red Hat know how to spell their company name | 07:46 |
| Keybuk | also the instructions are to untar, build and install a random tar file | 07:46 |
| Keybuk | RH ship security updates as RPM | 07:47 |
| daniels | interestingly, they ship 'fileutils-patch.bin' in that tarfile | 07:47 |
| daniels | which is an RPM | 07:47 |
| Keybuk | ah yes, bit red notice on RH.com | 07:48 |
| fabbione | daniels, Keybuk: thanks... | 07:48 |
| fabbione | i wonder more why it wasn't set automatically | 07:48 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: you have to set it to say you're happy that your code is no longer C99/POSIX/blah and you're happy about that | 07:49 |
| daniels | also, _BSD_SOURCE, _POSIX_SOURCE, and _XOPEN_SOURCE | 07:49 |
| daniels | the latter two accept numbers as to your level of posix/x/openness | 07:50 |
| fabbione | hmm | 07:53 |
| fabbione | the only lib complaining about it is libgl | 07:53 |
| fabbione | i wonder if others are affected too | 07:53 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: this is dri (black magic wodoo) stuff | 07:54 |
| fabbione | very difficult to say | 07:54 |
| daniels | ehm | 07:55 |
| fabbione | daniels: what do you think about confining the -D_GNU_SOURCE to libgl ? | 07:55 |
| daniels | you know how I worked out which flags most modular libs used? | 07:55 |
| daniels | buildd.d.o | 07:55 |
| daniels | if you can do per-file cflags in imake, even better | 07:56 |
| daniels | maybe even just a #define _GNU_SOURCE rather than -D | 07:56 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes i can do that | 07:56 |
| fabbione | daniels: btw.. all these little changes are just because of -DUseInstalled | 08:06 |
| fabbione | a real pain in the butt | 08:06 |
| fabbione | and it needs to be done at Imake level | 08:07 |
| fabbione | but i can still confine it to that specific dir | 08:09 |
| fabbione | there is no need to force it on the entire lib | 08:09 |
| daniels | fabbione: building mesa/glx and the server separately is a huge pain in the arse | 08:17 |
| daniels | right now you can't do it and keep dri | 08:17 |
| daniels | that's why my monolithic tree still contains lib/GL and extras/Mesa | 08:18 |
| daniels | (also, Xfont is really bizzaro, but that's another story) | 08:18 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes i know they circular build-dep | 08:18 |
| fabbione | i already have the xserver source tree as dependency | 08:18 |
| daniels | hm | 08:19 |
| fabbione | right now libgl is the worst crap i have seen in terms of Imakefile | 08:19 |
| jdub | i'm glad you guys can bond over X horrors | 08:20 |
| daniels | fabbione: isn't it great? | 08:20 |
| daniels | jdub: sort of like old war stories | 08:20 |
| fabbione | jdub: all this stuff is coming out because we are splitting the tree | 08:20 |
| jdub | YAY! | 08:20 |
| daniels | 'and then there was the time I realised half of the XKB code was probably exploitable if someone tried hard enough' | 08:20 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes, but that doesn't scare me too much | 08:20 |
| fabbione | jdub: as i already told Mark, the amount of work is much higher than what i planned in the beginning | 08:22 |
| fabbione | jdub: unfortunatly i realized it later | 08:22 |
| fabbione | but we will do our best | 08:22 |
| sladen | daniels: ''But I just typed "2*&)$}{;')(*!" at the keyboard..'' | 08:24 |
| vorlon | daniels: so how did you happen upon the Boeing glider story? | 08:26 |
| === vorlon had never heard that the mechanics ran out of gas on the way there, though, that's hilarious. :) | ||
| Keybuk | yeah was reading that, is a good telling of it :o) | 08:27 |
| Keybuk | I first heard about it reading some racetrack trivia stuff | 08:27 |
| daniels | vorlon: chris blizzard linked to it on his blog | 08:27 |
| vorlon | ah. :) | 08:27 |
| Keybuk | there's several examples of races being interrupted by planes doing emergency landings (lots of race tracks are old airfields), but that's the only one which was a commerical liner | 08:28 |
| === vorlon had heard about it because his dad is a glider pilot; the story was occasionally brought up as an "and that's why all commercial airline pilots should have to learn to fly gliders", when in reality it's a "and that's why airlines should ground planes that are suffering computer failures" ;) | ||
| jdub | although, knowing your pilot can glide the plane in if there's a problem is kinda nice | 08:30 |
| lifeless | depends on the plane really :) | 08:31 |
| vorlon | sure, though they showed that the glide ratio on those things really is lousy, and there aren't all that many airline pilots who do know how to fly gliders. :) | 08:32 |
| jdub | dude, if it's a 747-400, i still want to know the guy can glide it | 08:32 |
| Keybuk | indeed; the natural state for an out-of-fuel jetliner is "crater" | 08:32 |
| Keybuk | Silverstone is pretty fantastic for that; it's still an in-use airfield as well as a F1 Grand Prix race track -- on race day a fleet of helicopters arrives and lands in the middle of the track as all the rich kids get around the parking problems | 08:34 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: how was the race yesterday? | 08:35 |
| fabbione | i don't have a TV yet :) | 08:35 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: got a bit wet, but no major casualties | 08:35 |
| fabbione | who won? | 08:35 |
| Keybuk | Montoya | 08:35 |
| fabbione | argh | 08:35 |
| Keybuk | Kimi 2, Barichello 3 | 08:35 |
| fabbione | schummy? | 08:35 |
| Keybuk | somewhere a little way back, he toasted his car in the wall during practice so had to take an engine change | 08:36 |
| daniels | montoya! | 08:36 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: you seen the rule changes for 2005 yet? | 08:36 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: nope.. i only read the one you posted here | 08:36 |
| fabbione | about no tyres change during the race | 08:36 |
| fabbione | that is going to be sooooo boring | 08:37 |
| Keybuk | front wing height and rear wing size reduced; so will be interesting whether we'll see 1980-era wings-fixed-to-noses again | 08:37 |
| fabbione | i hope there is at least the exception in case of rain/dry weather | 08:37 |
| jdub | Keybuk: you'd land a plane on alicia silverstone? bastardo! | 08:37 |
| Keybuk | no tyre changes during race (except for environmental conditions) | 08:37 |
| Keybuk | in fact, same tyres have to last for both Qualy *and* the race | 08:37 |
| fabbione | amen | 08:37 |
| fabbione | we will see more cars out with falt tyres than anything else | 08:38 |
| Keybuk | which is interesting that they didn't forbid refuelling as well; because the pit boys won't have much to do now | 08:38 |
| Keybuk | engines have to last for two race weekends, not just one | 08:38 |
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| fabbione | so if one engine blows up | 08:39 |
| Keybuk | 9/10 teams want to eliminate tyre testing entirely, so effectively use standardised tyres for all teams | 08:39 |
| fabbione | you are out for 2 races | 08:39 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: no, just have to take a 10-position penalty | 08:39 |
| fabbione | bah that sucks | 08:40 |
| Keybuk | 9/10 teams want to reduce testing to just 10 days throughout the entire season | 08:40 |
| fabbione | it's getting to complicate | 08:40 |
| Keybuk | Qualy is going to be Saturday afternoon for a first low-fuel run in previous race finishing order | 08:40 |
| Keybuk | then on Sunday morning, they'll run again with race fuel in reverse order of previous finishing | 08:40 |
| Keybuk | Position will be based on an aggregate of both times | 08:40 |
| fabbione | why don't they just use /dev/urandom? | 08:41 |
| fabbione | it will save them tons of headackes | 08:41 |
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| Keybuk | heh, I still think they should go back to the *original* Qualy format, but with the addition that you have to run laps in 15 minute windows (to prevent everyone going out with 10 minutes left on the clock) | 08:42 |
| sivang | morning all | 08:43 |
| Keybuk | next year's going to be kinda interesting | 08:43 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: i think they should go back to the original. that's it.. same as it was at Prost and Senna time | 08:43 |
| fabbione | hi sivang | 08:43 |
| Keybuk | Minardi are probably safe, they have their own engines they can run | 08:43 |
| Keybuk | Jordan are probably safe, they are rumoured to be running Toyota engines next year | 08:43 |
| sivang | fabbione : morning, how are you? :) | 08:43 |
| Keybuk | Jaguar are still in the shit though, no buyer yet | 08:44 |
| fabbione | sivang: fine thank and you? | 08:44 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: too bad... | 08:44 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: will be amusing, because Ferrari will have to run a third car if they drop out | 08:44 |
| fabbione | i wonder when they will allow more than 2 cars x team | 08:44 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: uh why? | 08:45 |
| Keybuk | it's not a matter of "allow", it'll be a requirement for the top teams | 08:45 |
| Keybuk | F1 rules state a minimum of 20 cars must run | 08:45 |
| fabbione | ahhh | 08:45 |
| Keybuk | the third car won't be a points-scorer | 08:45 |
| Keybuk | so if you happen to be in the third Ferrari, you don't count | 08:45 |
| fabbione | and what's the point of having a third car than? | 08:45 |
| fabbione | just to fill up the grid? | 08:45 |
| sivang | fabbione : not bad at all, I see it's race car discussion day? :) | 08:45 |
| lifeless | thaytan: you shrink you | 08:45 |
| Keybuk | it counts for the driver, not the teeam | 08:45 |
| lifeless | bah. sorry | 08:45 |
| fabbione | sivang: well yeah.. i don't have a tv yet in the new house | 08:46 |
| fabbione | and Keybuk is updating me | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | though I think it'd be sweet if they let Jordan and Minardi have the third cars, and be points-scorers :) | 08:46 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: understandable... will the team decide which cars will bring points to the team or they will pick the 2 highest score for each race? | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | 2 highest runners, I believe | 08:47 |
| sivang | fabbione : don't major sports channels broadcast on the internet as well? | 08:47 |
| Keybuk | though Brundle was being cynical and suggesting that a Ferrari 1, 2, 3 is the last thing the sport needs next year :o) | 08:47 |
| Keybuk | sivang: no, F1 isn't net-broadcast | 08:47 |
| sivang | Keybuk : this is an european exlusive sport channel I suppose? (I know Eurosport, ESPN for the states etc) | 08:48 |
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| Keybuk | sivang: F1 = FIA Formula 1 | 08:48 |
| sivang | Keybuk : Ah so that's the famous formula 1 races , those are better watched from within the audience ;) | 08:49 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: ahahah that would own the F1.. Ferrari 1 2 3 :P | 08:49 |
| Keybuk | actually, I tend to disagree there ... they are fantastic to attend; but you get a better race if you watch at home | 08:49 |
| fabbione | yeah | 08:50 |
| fabbione | you don't see anything at the race | 08:50 |
| fabbione | it gets too messy | 08:50 |
| daniels | it's way too much to go here | 08:50 |
| daniels | prices start at about $au450 or so | 08:50 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: not really likely though, Ferrari are notably mid-field at the moment -- all the other teams have caught up; even Schumy is notably off-pace | 08:50 |
| Keybuk | it's almost as if he's bored, he's made silly mistakes in the last several races | 08:51 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: yeah well... he is demotivated after winning the championship | 08:53 |
| Keybuk | which is odd for Michael, he's normally even more motivated afterwards and just driving for fun | 08:54 |
| Keybuk | he is the "oldest man in F1" now ... though I give him a few more years yet, I expect we're starting to see the peak of his career | 08:55 |
| fabbione | yeah i agree | 08:55 |
| Keybuk | still waiting to see who'll be in the 2nd Williams | 08:56 |
| Keybuk | and, if they have to, 3rd Ferrari and BAR | 08:56 |
| Keybuk | (I guess the latter will be Anthony Davidson) | 08:56 |
| fabbione | probably Fittipaldi? | 08:57 |
| fabbione | isn't he the test driver for Ferrari? | 08:58 |
| Keybuk | no idea | 08:58 |
| daniels | yay Webber | 08:59 |
| fabbione | make[1] : Leaving directory `/usr/src/xorg/xorg-lib-gl-6.8.1/build-tree/xc/lib/GL' | 09:08 |
| fabbione | touch stampdir/build | 09:08 |
| fabbione | YES | 09:08 |
| fabbione | finally | 09:08 |
| fabbione | daniels: isn't about time to sign my gpg keys? | 09:09 |
| jdub | fabbione: last time i asked daniels about signing your key, he said he wasn't sure that you really were 'Fabio, The Most Beautiful Man In The World' | 09:09 |
| === vorlon vouches for fabbione's beauty | ||
| fabbione | jdub: you didn't even want to exchange id's with me :( | 09:12 |
| fabbione | vorlon: eheh | 09:12 |
| jdub | fabbione: we've already exchanged, haven't we? at the original uk meeting | 09:13 |
| fabbione | jdub: only for one of my key | 09:13 |
| fabbione | i am searching sigs for my new shiny 4096RSA key and the canonical key ;) | 09:13 |
| fabbione | gpg --list-sigs fabbione@fabbione.net |grep Jeff | 09:14 |
| fabbione | $ | 09:14 |
| fabbione | so that means that even if we exachanged... you didn't sign | 09:15 |
| fabbione | ;) | 09:15 |
| jdub | i didn't ;) | 09:15 |
| fabbione | you suck :P | 09:15 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Morning | 09:17 |
| daniels | heh | 09:19 |
| daniels | yeah, i should probably sign keys from oxford ... and akademy ... and ols ... and lca ... | 09:20 |
| aj | heh, i should probably sign keys from lca ... 2001 | 09:20 |
| fabbione | aj: and debconf4 :-) | 09:21 |
| fabbione | or was it 3? | 09:21 |
| fabbione | the one in Olso.. | 09:21 |
| fabbione | olso | 09:21 |
| fabbione | OSLO | 09:22 |
| fabbione | ok | 09:22 |
| daniels | 3 was oslo, 4 was brazil | 09:23 |
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| fabbione | daniels: is there actually any reason why we build libgl1.2 when 1.4 is available in debian? | 10:01 |
| fabbione | usr/lib/libGL.so.1.4.500 libs/mesag3,libs/mesag3-glide2,libs/mesag3+ggi | 10:01 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | fabbione: yeah -- mesa built independently from X is incapable of direct rendering | 10:04 |
| daniels | only software | 10:04 |
| daniels | working on using debian's mesa on a branch was what got me kicked out of the XSF the first time :P | 10:05 |
| Gmail | in how many hr is the meeting? | 10:05 |
| Gmail | i want to getready | 10:05 |
| Gmail | but i think its in 8hrs | 10:06 |
| fabbione | daniels: ok... and do you happen to remember why there is a /usr/lib/libGL link to /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL ? | 10:07 |
| daniels | probably because people suck and hardcoded the path | 10:07 |
| === fabbione is extremely tempted to kill it | ||
| === enrico_ [~enrico@81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | fabbione: just like the rest of /usr/X11R6 :) | 10:08 |
| === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: eh the libgl1 stuff is complex | 10:10 |
| daniels | hm? | 10:11 |
| fabbione | because libgl1 is a virtual package provided by several other packages | 10:11 |
| fabbione | there is all a rationale behind it | 10:11 |
| fabbione | it's in debian/changelog | 10:11 |
| daniels | yeah | 10:11 |
| fabbione | that also means that i cannot call the package libgl1 | 10:11 |
| daniels | oh, right | 10:11 |
| fabbione | and that seriously SUCKS HARD | 10:11 |
| daniels | so you're saying there's a /usr/lib/libGL->/usr/X11R6/lib/libgl link? | 10:11 |
| fabbione | daniels: there is a link because that link is handled by different packages as far as i can see | 10:12 |
| fabbione | so yes.. it needs to stay as symlink | 10:12 |
| daniels | /usr/lib/X11/libGL.so | 10:12 |
| daniels | hey, wait ... | 10:12 |
| === fabbione is seriously disappointed by this GL mess | ||
| daniels | mmm | 10:17 |
| daniels | they're trying to fix that upstream, so mesa will be capable of direct rendering when built separately | 10:17 |
| fabbione | daniels: i think i will keep the same name schema we have in Debian now.. even if i think it sucks | 10:17 |
| fabbione | xlibmesa-* has nothing to do with libgl | 10:18 |
| fabbione | but that's the easiest i think | 10:18 |
| daniels | i don't really like xlibmesa | 10:19 |
| daniels | i would personally prefer libgl1-xorg | 10:19 |
| fabbione | or xorg-libgl1 | 10:20 |
| fabbione | that is slightly more coherent with all the other packages | 10:20 |
| fabbione | like 171 xorg-source-* | 10:20 |
| fabbione | ;) | 10:20 |
| fabbione | Package: xorg-libgl1 | 10:21 |
| fabbione | Package: xorg-libgl-dev | 10:21 |
| fabbione | Package: xorg-libgl-dri | 10:21 |
| fabbione | ehm | 10:21 |
| fabbione | libgl1-dri | 10:22 |
| daniels | mmm, but libgl1-* is far more compliant with standard naming scheme's | 10:22 |
| daniels | x's is total bong | 10:22 |
| daniels | (the xlib* mess being a bad hangover) | 10:22 |
| daniels | s/scheme's/schemes/ | 10:22 |
| daniels | also, libgl1-dri is bad because we're not actually dri | 10:23 |
| daniels | that's dri.sf.net | 10:23 |
| daniels | so i propose libgl1-xorg, but your call | 10:23 |
| === ph_ [~ph@pD9E6BC38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | let's keep it as xorg-libgl* | 10:25 |
| fabbione | we can easily change it later | 10:26 |
| daniels | fabbione: hm | 10:26 |
| fabbione | there is the same mess with xorg-libosmesa | 10:26 |
| daniels | fabbione: as i said, your call | 10:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: as i said.. it's a detail right now | 10:26 |
| daniels | but in my packages, it's libgl1-xorg, libosmesa4-xorg, et al | 10:26 |
| daniels | yeah | 10:26 |
| fabbione | we can change later ;) | 10:26 |
| daniels | we can fight it out in denmark :) | 10:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: the ring is ready.. time for the cage :P | 10:27 |
| daniels | heh | 10:27 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-8-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| __daniel | hai | 10:41 |
| Keybuk | 1,320 changesets for warty | 10:46 |
| === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === daniels [daniel@fooishbar.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: can you gice me the output of objdump --all-headers libGL.so.1.2 | grep TEXTREL on your libGL ? | 11:01 |
| fabbione | s/gice/give | 11:01 |
| fabbione | and on libosmesa4 | 11:01 |
| fabbione | hey sabdfl | 11:01 |
| daniels | fabbione: there should be no TEXTREL -- see my make libGL PIC-compliant patch | 11:02 |
| fabbione | daniels: that's what i was searching for | 11:03 |
| daniels | i have no TEXTREL here | 11:03 |
| daniels | but yeah, I wrote a patch to make GL PIC-compliant | 11:03 |
| daniels | anyway, dinnertime | 11:03 |
| fabbione | yeah it didn't apply clean.. i will check it again | 11:04 |
| fabbione | i remember the first time i didn't do it deeply | 11:04 |
| daniels | jakub jelinek did a better one, might be applied now | 11:05 |
| daniels | that will make gl *significantly* *quicker* | 11:05 |
| daniels | anyway, dinner | 11:05 |
| sabdfl | hiya fabbione | 11:05 |
| Kamion | mdz: d-i doesn't create /sbin/unconfigured.sh; that's a boot-floppies thing | 11:06 |
| Kamion | mdz: instead, /etc/inittab is just set to run base-config until base-config rewrites it not to do that | 11:07 |
| === cc [~byte@c211-28-119-102.eburwd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === fabbione starts to wonder if do we really have to support GL | ||
| daniels | fabbione: that's the unfortunate reality | 11:35 |
| fabbione | daniels: i rediffed your patch and now libGL is PIC compliant | 11:39 |
| daniels | cool | 11:39 |
| fabbione | but libosmesa4 isn't | 11:39 |
| daniels | yeah, that probably still needs doing | 11:39 |
| fabbione | and probably your version isn't linked properly either | 11:39 |
| fabbione | the Imake is missing a REQUIREDLIBS = MathLibrary | 11:40 |
| fabbione | i start to eat Imakefiles for breakfast | 11:40 |
| daniels | yeah, that's a patch from Gentoo I never got to integrating | 11:41 |
| daniels | their BTS has a few patches to practically eliminate all weak references | 11:41 |
| daniels | i was working on debrix at that stage, and couldn't be arsed dealing with Branden to get it into the Debian tree | 11:41 |
| fabbione | the debian patch applie on xfree86 but not x.org | 11:43 |
| daniels | which debian patch? | 11:44 |
| fabbione | ok fixed | 11:44 |
| fabbione | the 062_ | 11:44 |
| fabbione | is the same you geve to me | 11:44 |
| daniels | the libGL PIC one? | 11:44 |
| fabbione | gave to me | 11:44 |
| fabbione | yes | 11:44 |
| daniels | right | 11:44 |
| fabbione | that one doesn't apply to x.org | 11:44 |
| fabbione | and i rediffed | 11:44 |
| daniels | hmm | 11:44 |
| fabbione | now it is ok | 11:44 |
| fabbione | also | 11:44 |
| daniels | rad | 11:44 |
| fabbione | libosmesa was ranting about TEXTREL because it was not properly linked with MathLibrary | 11:44 |
| fabbione | so that is fixed too | 11:45 |
| daniels | cool | 11:45 |
| fabbione | hmm no hold on | 11:45 |
| fabbione | i used the wrong the script for the PIC | 11:45 |
| === fabbione sighs | ||
| fabbione | at least it is linked properly | 11:46 |
| daniels | http://dev.gentoo.org/~spyderous/xfree/patchsets/4.3.0/patch-2.1.17/0192_all_4.3.0-missing-lib-sharedreqs.patch | 11:48 |
| daniels | that's a small part of the patch | 11:49 |
| daniels | http://dev.gentoo.org/~spyderous/xorg-x11/patchsets/6.8.0/patch/0130_all_4.2.1-fix-shared-libXau-link.v2.patch | 11:49 |
| daniels | you'll want that if you want a shared Xau lib (I want a shared Xau lib) | 11:49 |
| fabbione | we already have a share libXau | 11:50 |
| fabbione | the last patch is only partially true | 11:51 |
| fabbione | s/true/correct | 11:51 |
| fabbione | anyway | 11:51 |
| fabbione | the pic problem is still there | 11:51 |
| fabbione | and it's not a link issue | 11:51 |
| fabbione | these are easy to fix | 11:51 |
| daniels | yeah | 11:52 |
| daniels | gl pic is a bitch | 11:52 |
| daniels | and when you do get it right, you lose arseloads of performance | 11:52 |
| fabbione | GL is PIC now | 11:52 |
| fabbione | we only miss libosmesa4 | 11:52 |
| daniels | mmm | 11:52 |
| aj | yo, keybuk! | 12:01 |
| Keybuk | aj: hey | 12:02 |
| aj | l33t | 12:02 |
| fabbione | is there a generic way to find code that makes a lib non-pic? | 12:02 |
| aj | hrm, now i should find that bugnumber | 12:02 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: not easily | 12:03 |
| Keybuk | grepping the resulting assembler *shrug* | 12:03 |
| aj | Keybuk: Bug 62529 -- what're the chances of getting something done about it? | 12:04 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: ok.... | 12:04 |
| fabbione | well... almost | 12:04 |
| === mvo_ [~egon@suprimo-131.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | aj: reasonably high, I think that's one I read over the weekend | 12:05 |
| aj | yeah, you did | 12:05 |
| aj | or someone pretending to be you set it to wishlist, anyway | 12:05 |
| Keybuk | I favour the "does the -revision contain .0.x" trick | 12:05 |
| Keybuk | it's one lamont and elmo keep poking me about :) so expect it to be one of the first bugs fixed once sarge has its translation update release | 12:06 |
| aj | goodo | 12:07 |
| aj | i'll see if i can get kamion to poke you about it too | 12:07 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: (consider yourself poked) | 12:23 |
| === daniels pokes Keybuk, for the hell of it. | ||
| daniels | (all the cool kids are doing it) | 12:24 |
| === Keybuk pokes daniels back | ||
| Kamion | Keybuk: might be worth going over queue/done to check whether any sourceful uploads in the last <whatever> have been versioned .0.x | 12:25 |
| Kamion | oh, .0.x doesn't work, binNMUs of sourceful NMUs are .1.x etc. | 12:25 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: there are a few upstream examples (usually bpb) but seeing as policy says .0.x in the revision is a bin-nmu, I think anyone who does it is silly | 12:25 |
| Kamion | doesn't work on its own, anyway | 12:25 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: elaborate? | 12:26 |
| Kamion | MU 1.0-2, sourceful NMU 1.0-2.1, binNMU 1.0-2.1.1 | 12:26 |
| Keybuk | why 1.1 ? | 12:27 |
| Kamion | because -2.0.1 would be less than -2.1 and -2.1.0.1 would be excessively long? | 12:27 |
| daniels | Keybuk: rebuild of 2.1 | 12:27 |
| daniels | hence, 2.1.1 | 12:27 |
| Kamion | I think the idea is third level of Debian revision = recompile | 12:27 |
| Kamion | dunno, just know it's historical fact :) | 12:28 |
| Keybuk | I get worried about not making it *look* magic | 12:28 |
| Keybuk | .0.x is pretty rare | 12:28 |
| Keybuk | .1.x is common for general usage | 12:29 |
| Kamion | I'm just observing what people have historically done | 12:29 |
| Kamion | also, katie supports .<whatever>.<whatever> | 12:29 |
| Kamion | re_bin_only_nmu_of_mu = re.compile("\.\d+\.\d+$"); | 12:30 |
| Kamion | re_bin_only_nmu_of_nmu = re.compile("\.\d+$"); | 12:30 |
| Kamion | all I'm saying is it'd be worth checking queue/done, since people do all sorts of weird shit and it might be worth choosing something with maximal weird-shit deflection potential :-) | 12:31 |
| daniels | heh :) | 12:34 |
| daniels | the software design metric of the future! | 12:34 |
| aj | Keybuk: feel free to make up your own magic, like .recN, or .0.N$ or something different | 12:39 |
| aj | Keybuk: we can always just REJECT anything that doesn't match the magic | 12:39 |
| === Keybuk hunts for a spare character on the keyboard <g> | ||
| aj | new characters would be bad, though; cf ~... | 12:40 |
| Keybuk | at least ~ actually makes sense | 12:40 |
| Keybuk | cf. patch, diff -ru foo-1.0~ foo-1.0 | 12:40 |
| aj | yeah, but it's a nuisance trying to get it to actually work | 12:41 |
| Keybuk | hrm, ".." could be cute foo_1.0-1..1 | 12:42 |
| aj | eww! that so gross! | 12:42 |
| Keybuk | <g> | 12:42 |
| aj | eww, only [0-9A-z+.] to play with | 12:43 |
| aj | .0+1? | 12:44 |
| Keybuk | + tends to get used for what ~ is intended for | 12:44 |
| Keybuk | 1.0-1+but.really+0.99.1 | 12:44 |
| Keybuk | * Not changed: geda-gschem ... (ugh, that's a horrible package name) | 12:45 |
| aj | ajt@newraff:~/queue/done$ find | grep -- '-.*\.0+1_' | wc -l | 12:45 |
| aj | 0 | 12:45 |
| Keybuk | aj: that's certainly a useful idea then | 12:46 |
| aj | foo_1.0-1.0+1 would work | 12:46 |
| aj | *shrug* i'm happy if you break things though, REJECTing is easy :) | 12:46 |
| aj | anything that actually gets implemented gets my vote | 12:46 |
| Keybuk | are there any in queue/done that end in "+\d*" ? | 12:46 |
| Keybuk | upstream included | 12:46 |
| aj | ./2002/11/28/openoffice.org-debian-files_1.0.1-6+1_i386.changes | 12:47 |
| aj | ./2002/03/05/cfdisk-utf8_2.11n-5+1_powerpc.changes | 12:47 |
| aj | ./2002/04/07/alsa-modules-2.4.18-i386_0.9+0beta12+3+2.4.18+4+1_i386.changes | 12:47 |
| aj | ./mutt_1.5.6-20040907+1_powerpc.changes | 12:47 |
| aj | ./vim_6.3-025+1_arm.changes | 12:48 |
| sivang | mantis will be used by ubuntu after bugzilla? | 12:48 |
| aj | ./2002/03/04/tetex-bin_1.0.7+20011202-5_i386.changes | 12:48 |
| Keybuk | *nods* I'll bounce off lamont when he wakes up and see if he has any opinions | 12:49 |
| aj | "rc+\d" doesn't match anything, so foo_1.0-1.rc+1 would work too | 12:49 |
| Keybuk | "rc" ? | 12:49 |
| aj | +rc1 matches release candidates otoh | 12:49 |
| aj | ReCompile | 12:49 |
| Keybuk | yeah I read "rc" as "Release Candidate" | 12:51 |
| aj | rb+1 for rebuild, maybe | 12:51 |
| aj | +rb\d works too | 12:52 |
| Keybuk | I like the +<something>\d+ form ... foo_1.0-1.1+rebuild3 ... kinda reads as "and 3 rebuilds" | 12:54 |
| azeem | 'rebuild' is relatively short so it could be spelt out, IMHO | 12:57 |
| azeem | doesn't make people like me wonder what it means, as e.g. with 'ds' | 12:57 |
| Keybuk | it doesn't really matter too much, as it's not important for anyone but buildd freaks :) | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | aj: is +b\d used? | 01:01 |
| === sparkes [~sparkes@host81-154-216-173.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| aj | no +b\d | 01:03 |
| Keybuk | cool, that's reasonably short | 01:04 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-8-118.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mvo_ | hi seb128 | 01:05 |
| === sid77 [~sid77@host98-44.pool8020.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sid77 | hi all | 01:13 |
| === sid77 is away: Far from here (close to you) | ||
| fabbione | daniels: ping | 01:30 |
| daniels | pong | 01:31 |
| daniels | fabbione: 2676 is yours | 01:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: i was talking with Overfiend right now | 01:33 |
| fabbione | he wrote that section of policy about */X11 | 01:33 |
| fabbione | and he said that we can go as we like | 01:33 |
| daniels | awesome | 01:33 |
| fabbione | that means no X11R6 | 01:33 |
| daniels | right | 01:33 |
| daniels | remember you're the maintainer, ultimately -- /usr and /usr/X11R6 is your call | 01:34 |
| daniels | you know my opinion by now, I'm sure :) | 01:34 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes i know your opinion | 01:35 |
| fabbione | right now i want to get libgl out of my way | 01:36 |
| fabbione | but the problem is still that TEXTREL | 01:36 |
| fabbione | and i can't find the piece of code generating it | 01:36 |
| fabbione | osmesa.c includes 3 tons of crap | 01:36 |
| daniels | crap | 01:39 |
| daniels | yeah | 01:39 |
| === SuperLag [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | * \file imports.h | 01:43 |
| fabbione | it seems to be the one at fault | 01:43 |
| fabbione | ./extras/Mesa/src/mesa/main/glheader.h | 01:44 |
| fabbione | ./extras/Mesa/src/mesa/main/imports.h | 01:44 |
| === sid77 is back (gone 00:21:16) | ||
| daniels | sid77: please turn off public away | 01:45 |
| lamont | moo | 01:51 |
| lamont | Keybuk: what version number? | 01:51 |
| Keybuk | lamont: we were discussing bin-nmus | 01:55 |
| Keybuk | the idea that dpkg could recognise a certain form of version number, and generate the changes so it's missing the bit at the end in the Source: header | 01:56 |
| fabbione | daniels: i think i found a solution to the TEXTREL | 01:58 |
| daniels | fabbione: wassat? | 01:58 |
| fabbione | but it's going to impact performance. there is no other way around | 01:58 |
| fabbione | check imports.g | 01:58 |
| fabbione | ehm .h | 01:58 |
| daniels | all our PIC changes have killed performance | 01:58 |
| daniels | i'm not sitting at a computer with an unpacked tree right now | 01:58 |
| fabbione | it has several specific asm definition | 01:58 |
| daniels | right | 01:58 |
| fabbione | and also a generic portable C one | 01:59 |
| fabbione | so it's question of do in such a way that it will compile the generic one | 01:59 |
| fabbione | always | 01:59 |
| daniels | hm | 01:59 |
| daniels | personally I'd be shooting to make the ASM PIC-compliant | 02:00 |
| lamont | Keybuk: .0.N is kinda defacto, you know. | 02:00 |
| === Gmail [~Google@gnu-debian.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | lamont: except Kamion was saying it wasn't, and that when a source-NMU has been done, you do .N; and it's not safe when applied to upstream | 02:05 |
| fabbione | daniels: well.. if you know enough about asm.. patches are welcome :-) | 02:06 |
| lamont | and no real standard exists for native packages. | 02:06 |
| === gruberman [~gruberman@h9n2fls35o294.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | lamont: so we were discussing going with something else entirely ... I personally like +b1, +b2 etc. | 02:07 |
| Kamion | I think that's why I ended up liking aj's DEB_RECOMPILE suggestion after thinking about it, but some convention that nobody's used yet would work too | 02:07 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: you know some smartarse will use it for beta versions though - why abbreviate? | 02:07 |
| lamont | the code I've seen basically says "if there are 3 more components in the debian version number, and there is source excluding either the last 1 or 2 components (which must be numeric), then that's it...' | 02:07 |
| lamont | +binNMU<n> | 02:08 |
| lamont | of course, anything that is not '.x.y' will require changes in katie and sbuild, to name just a few. | 02:09 |
| daniels | fabbione: look at the way I did libGL :P | 02:09 |
| === Gmail [~Google@gnu-debian.user] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| lamont | Keybuk: the goal here is for dpkg to know that it's building an NMU? | 02:11 |
| lamont | er, binNMU? | 02:11 |
| elmo | more that the archive can know reliably, I suspect | 02:12 |
| lamont | note also that a binNMU of a package in ubuntu is newer than the ubuntu version... (1-1.0.1 > 1.1ubuntu1) | 02:13 |
| daniels | lamont: er, is it really? | 02:13 |
| lamont | elmo: ah, right. | 02:13 |
| lamont | daniels: yep. | 02:13 |
| daniels | i would've thought that 1ubuntu1 > 1.0 | 02:13 |
| lamont | dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.1 gt 1ubuntu1 && echo y | 02:14 |
| lamont | y | 02:14 |
| lamont | daniels: thanks for playing, though. | 02:14 |
| lamont | :-) | 02:14 |
| daniels | heh | 02:14 |
| Keybuk | daniels: "." > "u" | 02:14 |
| elmo | lamont: (ITYM, 'kthxbye' :P) | 02:15 |
| lamont | fortunately, the only binNMU in warty has a newer version in sid | 02:15 |
| lamont | elmo: lol | 02:15 |
| lamont | sablevm, for those with scorecard | 02:15 |
| lamont | s | 02:15 |
| Keybuk | lamont: yeah, basically it's so dpkg-genchanges can go "ah, a recompile, I'll stick 'Source: foo (1.0-1)' in then" | 02:15 |
| daniels | elmo: the ubuntuforums folk are find of 'k thnx. | 02:16 |
| daniels | ' | 02:16 |
| fabbione | bah | 02:18 |
| fabbione | that asm isolation killed my ccache | 02:18 |
| lamont | Keybuk: then it's probably just a matter of getting all the principals in one place an picking a format,eh? | 02:20 |
| Keybuk | yup | 02:20 |
| lamont | personally, I don't really care, so long as the next sourceful upload has a higher version | 02:20 |
| lamont | for extra credit, pick something < 'u' :-) | 02:21 |
| Keybuk | that's kinda tricky | 02:22 |
| Keybuk | you'd actually have to pick a new character for that, and put it < 'a' | 02:22 |
| lamont | yeah - that's why it's _extra_ credit | 02:22 |
| Keybuk | all punctuation is > 'z' right now | 02:22 |
| lamont | or choose a-t to be the character. :-) | 02:22 |
| === lamont ducks | ||
| Keybuk | see, if you used "x.ubuntu.y" instead of "xubuntuy" you could use '+', + < '.' ;o) | 02:23 |
| === jdub is still wondering wtf derivatives are going to do | ||
| lamont | Keybuk: yeah, the issue was that we wanted 1ubuntu1 < 1.1 | 02:24 |
| Kamion | jdub: 1ubuntu1myderivative1 | 02:25 |
| lamont | heh | 02:25 |
| Keybuk | foo_1.0-1ubuntu5skole3guade2_i386.deb :p | 02:25 |
| === lamont must run | ||
| lamont | back in about 90 minutes or so, actually closer to 2 hours now that I think about it, | 02:25 |
| elmo | 326, 326, 350, 22 <-- need-update, up-to-date, ubuntu-modified, ubuntu-specific | 02:26 |
| elmo | s/22/20/ | 02:26 |
| lamont | Keybuk: truthfully, I don't really mind what it is, so much as I want there to be an official standard for it. | 02:27 |
| lamont | and buyin from all concerned, of course.. | 02:27 |
| lamont | bbl | 02:28 |
| Keybuk | elmo: I have 438 ubuntu-modified | 02:28 |
| elmo | keybuk: I'm only doing main | 02:32 |
| elmo | right now | 02:32 |
| Keybuk | ahh ok | 02:32 |
| jdub | Kamion: that so doesn't scale :) | 02:32 |
| Keybuk | I did main+universe I think | 02:33 |
| elmo | hmm, I'd kind of forgotten about universe, meh | 02:33 |
| daniels | elmo: ubuntu-specific soon to be += ~80 | 02:33 |
| Keybuk | elmo: you're doing the sync of the need-update ones, right? | 02:36 |
| elmo | Keybuk: getting ready to, yeah | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | cool | 02:37 |
| elmo | and mailing folks about stuff that would like to be updated, but are ubuntu modified | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | I really wish abiword wasn't first on ubuntu-modified :o) | 02:37 |
| elmo | it'd help if there were proper hoary seeds | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | most of my rejects seem to be autofuck updates so far | 02:39 |
| Keybuk | which is encouraging | 02:39 |
| Keybuk | oh, and po/* hell | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | I swear, the guys who invented ".po" sat down and designed a file format deliberately intended to be totally unpatchable | 02:40 |
| thom | it's a feature (TM) | 02:40 |
| === fabbione kicks libgl straight in the core | ||
| Keybuk | thom: did apache2 steal dpkg-style sorting for filenames ?! | 02:59 |
| daniels | while we're speaking of httpds, what's up with the indexing on auckland? | 02:59 |
| Keybuk | * kdemultimedia trying 3.2.2-1ubuntu2 + 3.3.0-1 | 03:00 |
| Keybuk | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej | 03:00 |
| Keybuk | 1 out of 4 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej | 03:00 |
| Keybuk | lamont is teh suck | 03:01 |
| thom | Keybuk: hrm? | 03:01 |
| Keybuk | thom: I just noticed that the files are sorted correctly | 03:02 |
| Keybuk | rather than 1 10 11 2 | 03:02 |
| thom | ah, heh | 03:02 |
| thom | doubt it's dpkg stealage :-) | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | it's not quite right actually, but is close :p | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | [ ] aiksaurus_1.0.1+cvs.2004.03.15+dev-0.12-0ubuntu1.patch 25-Oct-2004 07:02 91M | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | [ ] aiksaurus_1.0.1+cvs.2004.03.15-1ubuntu1.patch 25-Oct-2004 07:02 9.8K | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | those two should be the other way around :p | 03:03 |
| lifeless | http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/ | 03:03 |
| jdub | so how do i distribute the op love? | 03:03 |
| === HauntedUnix [~hauntedun@HauntedUnix.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Hawkwind [~SoS@Hawkwind.linuxfordummies] has joined #Ubuntu-Devel | ||
| daniels | /m chanserv access #ubuntu add nickname 20 | 03:04 |
| === gruberman [~gruberman@h9n2fls35o294.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| jdub | aha | 03:05 |
| jdub | done for daniels and Keybuk | 03:05 |
| jdub | and thom | 03:06 |
| jdub | anyone else? | 03:06 |
| daniels | thanks dude | 03:06 |
| daniels | i think bob2 wants it, too | 03:06 |
| jdub | done for lamont | 03:06 |
| fabbione | bah add me too | 03:06 |
| daniels | he was mentioning it a while ago, and is #debian | 03:06 |
| fabbione | just in case | 03:06 |
| HauntedUnix | Hello all. | 03:06 |
| jdub | done | 03:06 |
| === HauntedUnix [~hauntedun@HauntedUnix.student.supporter.pdpc] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| seb128 | why not :) | 03:07 |
| jdub | done :) | 03:07 |
| seb128 | thanks :) | 03:08 |
| Keybuk | * opencv trying 0.9.5-4ubuntu1 + 0.9.5-10 | 03:09 |
| Keybuk | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej | 03:09 |
| Keybuk | 2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej | 03:09 |
| Keybuk | o/~ oh, lamont | 03:09 |
| === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: getting an wireless AP for the sprint :-) | 03:15 |
| daniels | good thing, too | 03:15 |
| === fabbione gives up on Mesa | ||
| daniels | this house is now pretty reliant on my wrt54g :\ | 03:16 |
| fabbione | i have tried everything i could to kill that TEXTREL | 03:16 |
| fabbione | it's gonna be 11Mb | 03:16 |
| === gruberman [~gruberman@h9n2fls35o294.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | rookery scott% grep -c "to file po/" failed.txt | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | 1277 | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | ugh | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | in fact | 03:33 |
| Keybuk | rookery scott% egrep -c "to file (debian/)?po/" failed.txt | 03:33 |
| Keybuk | 1987 | 03:33 |
| Keybuk | rookery scott% egrep -c "to file debian/(changelog|control)" failed.txt | 03:33 |
| Keybuk | 582 | 03:33 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| Mitario | lo everyone | 03:55 |
| === mvo_ [~egon@suprimo-131.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| T-Bone | mako: ping | 04:21 |
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| lamont | Keybuk: how bad are the conflicts, I wonder. | 04:26 |
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| mjg59 | I'm not able to make the Hoary meeting | 04:27 |
| mjg59 | Is there anyone else who would like to raise laptop stuff? | 04:27 |
| nmf | Hi all | 04:29 |
| nmf | I have a question I already made on the devel ml but got no (usefull) response, so... | 04:29 |
| pitti | mjg59: can you dump your "stuff" that you want to raise on a wiki page? | 04:29 |
| nmf | Are there any plans to make packages like tomcat available? | 04:29 |
| pitti | Guys, does anybody have a PCMCIA card which provides an IDE interface? | 04:30 |
| === lamont does somewhere | ||
| mjg59 | pitti: Yeah | 04:30 |
| Micksa | well, some/most CF cards do that | 04:30 |
| mjg59 | pitti: Well, PCMCIA->CF adapter | 04:30 |
| === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | Presents as IDE | 04:30 |
| Micksa | and you can get "dumb" CF -> PCMCIA adapters | 04:30 |
| Micksa | dammit :) | 04:31 |
| Micksa | what mjg said | 04:31 |
| thom | mjg59: quite happy to, yeah | 04:31 |
| pitti | mjg59: I'm currently debugging #2265, and I need people with such cards to execute two commands | 04:31 |
| pitti | the problem is how to reliably tell PCMCIA and "normal" IDE adapters apart; hal's current method is broken | 04:31 |
| mjg59 | Oh, and I have a PCMCIA CD drive, too | 04:32 |
| mjg59 | I don't have a laptop with PCMCIA running Ubuntu, though :) | 04:32 |
| pitti | I need the output of 'cat /var/lib/pcmcia/stab' and 'cardctl ident' | 04:32 |
| pitti | mjg59: I don't think that Ubuntu matters, Debian or another Linux is probably okay, too | 04:33 |
| pitti | mjg59: but it should be kernel 2.6, though | 04:33 |
| daniels | mjg59: what sort of laptop stuff do you want me to represent? | 04:33 |
| pitti | hal upstream wants to collect the output of these commands to find a better way | 04:33 |
| pitti | lamont: can you please send me the output of these commands for your card as well? | 04:34 |
| pitti | nmf: we will soon develop a policy for adding user contributed packages to our Universe | 04:34 |
| pitti | nmf: by now you can try to get packages from Debian unstable, or if unstable does not have it, from www.apt-get.org | 04:35 |
| pitti | nmf: (that is, most unstable packages shoudl already be in our universe) | 04:35 |
| mjg59 | daniels: We need to figure out what sort of suspend work to concentrate on - StD is easier but less satisfying, StR is going to need more effort but /ought/ to be possible. We'd need lots of hardware testing, though. | 04:36 |
| daniels | mjg59: *craploads* | 04:36 |
| mjg59 | pitti: I have no /var/lib/pcmcia/stab | 04:37 |
| === vuntz [~vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | (Or, indeed, a /var/lib/pcmcia) | 04:37 |
| pitti | mjg59: hmm, and cardctl ident? | 04:37 |
| mjg59 | Socket 0: | 04:37 |
| mjg59 | product info: SAMSUNG, Rev 1.18.4, | 04:37 |
| mjg59 | manfid: 0x00ce, 0x0000 | 04:37 |
| mjg59 | function: 4 (fixed disk) | 04:37 |
| pitti | mjg59: thanks! | 04:38 |
| nmf | pitti: yeahh, I know I can get them from debian, I'm using them now | 04:38 |
| pitti | nmf: the package is most likely not in universe because we don't have Java at the moment; but we will find a solution for this | 04:38 |
| nmf | pitti: the problem is packages like tomcat depend on not-free packages (sun JDK) to build | 04:38 |
| thom | yes, although we should try and work out a way to build them with gcj and see if they work | 04:39 |
| thom | this needs a test suite, and tomcat didn't have one last i looked | 04:39 |
| daniels | cocoon would be phat to have | 04:39 |
| nmf | pitti: ok, if there's anyway I can help to speed up the process, let me know | 04:39 |
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| daniels | thom: (nor last I looked, short of 'it does stuff and works' or 'it crashes') | 04:40 |
| daniels | rburton: hey dude | 04:40 |
| thom | daniels: aye | 04:40 |
| rburton | hi daniels | 04:40 |
| thom | afternoon ross | 04:40 |
| nmf | thom: I think most packages in debian that can work with free JVMs/JDKs already have the correct dependencies | 04:40 |
| rburton | thom: afternoon | 04:40 |
| fabbione | hey ross | 04:40 |
| rburton | hey fabbione | 04:41 |
| rburton | good afternoon all | 04:41 |
| rburton | mvo_, synaptic --set-selections isn't doing the right thing for me | 04:41 |
| rburton | i clearly tell it "gaim\tremove" and it doesn't do it | 04:42 |
| === mvo_ is having a look | ||
| rburton | aaah | 04:42 |
| rburton | ignore me | 04:42 |
| === rburton fixes stupid bug | ||
| mvo_ | rburton: gaim delete ... | 04:43 |
| === mvo_ blushes | ||
| tseng | hey thom, any idea how to solve this one.. dbus-1 starts networkmanager before hald | 04:43 |
| lamont | nmf: wrt tomcat: | 04:44 |
| lamont | multiverse/web/tomcat4_4.1.30-6: Dep-Wait by buildd+mcmurdo [optional:uncompiled] | 04:44 |
| lamont | Dependencies: j2sdk1.4 | 04:44 |
| lamont | so warty only has source. :-( | 04:45 |
| lamont | pitti: booting now | 04:45 |
| mvo_ | rburton: it's either "delete" or "uninstall" | 04:45 |
| rburton | mvo_, aah. that would stop the run i was about to do. whats the difference? | 04:46 |
| lamont | pitti: 4MB pcmcia card, and CF-adapter, fwiw | 04:46 |
| pitti | lamont: does /var/lib/pcmcia exist on your box? | 04:46 |
| mvo_ | rburton: there is none. it's just for conenience | 04:46 |
| tseng | thom: should /etc/dbus/event.d have numbered scripts perhaps? | 04:46 |
| rburton | mvo_, k | 04:46 |
| mvo_ | rburton: I can add "purge" if you need it | 04:46 |
| rburton | mvo_, could be useful, but i may just use remove | 04:47 |
| lamont | pitti: no | 04:47 |
| rburton | uninstall even | 04:47 |
| === lamont_r [~lamont@rover3.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | lamont: hm; /var/cache/pcmcia maybe? | 04:47 |
| pitti | lamont: find /var -name stab ? | 04:48 |
| lamont | /var/run/stab... | 04:48 |
| === lamont upgrades | ||
| rburton | wohoo | 04:48 |
| pitti | mjg59: does /var/run/stab exist? Does it look as if it has sth to do with PCMCIA? | 04:49 |
| lamont | anyone want to tell me why apt wants to upgrade gnome-cpufreq-applet over and over... | 04:49 |
| rburton | mvo_, is therea way to force the terminal window to close when it is finished? | 04:49 |
| lamont | Preparing to replace gnome-cpufreq-applet 0.1.3-1 (using .../gnome-cpufreq-applet_0.1.3-1_i386.deb) ... | 04:49 |
| lamont | le huh? | 04:49 |
| pitti | lamont: can you please /msg me this file and the output of 'cardctl ident'? | 04:49 |
| mvo_ | rburton: it's a bug if it does not close with "--non-interactive". I'll fix this | 04:50 |
| pitti | lamont: maybe version +0.0001 and dpkg rounds to two digits? :-) | 04:50 |
| mjg59 | pitti: Nope | 04:50 |
| mjg59 | pitti: (As in, it doesn't exist) | 04:50 |
| rburton | mvo_, but app-install just removed and installed gaim for me. synaptic's cli stuff is useful, thanks | 04:50 |
| pitti | mjg59: hmm, thanks anyway | 04:50 |
| mjg59 | Hmm. That's odd - I plug the card in, hal-device-manager briefly shows two partitions, and then they go away again | 04:51 |
| === mvo_ would love to try rburtons app-install | ||
| mjg59 | pitti: Oh, hang on - it's suddenly appeared | 04:51 |
| mjg59 | Socket 0: ATA/IDE Fixed Disk | 04:51 |
| mjg59 | 0 ide ide-cs 0 hde 33 0 | 04:51 |
| nmf | lamont: that's the problem I was talking about, it depends on Sun JDK so it never gets built. | 04:52 |
| lamont | nmf: right | 04:52 |
| nmf | Anyone knows how contrib packages build is handled on debian? | 04:52 |
| thom | tseng: yes | 04:53 |
| mjg59 | nmf: It's not autobuilt | 04:53 |
| lamont | nmf: buildd's try, if the non-free stuff is there, then maybe it works. | 04:53 |
| pitti | mjg59: thanks | 04:53 |
| lamont | otherwise, some random d-d uploads the binaries | 04:53 |
| thom | just spoke to (one of) the maintainers about it | 04:53 |
| tseng | wonderful. | 04:53 |
| daniels | networkmanager, or dbus? | 04:53 |
| thom | daniels: dbus-1 | 04:53 |
| lamont | mjg59: hppa has 88 contrib/ entries in w-b... contrib is autobuilt | 04:54 |
| lamont | just not with great success... | 04:54 |
| mjg59 | Oh, it is? Ha. | 04:54 |
| daniels | thom: the other maintainer sucks | 04:54 |
| lamont | non-free, OTOH, is definitely not in w-b | 04:54 |
| thom | heh. | 04:57 |
| lamont | hrm... SMC card seems to "just work". Linksys card not so fortunate. | 05:03 |
| tseng | new linksys cards tend to be broadcom chips | 05:04 |
| tseng | while smc goes with prismX | 05:04 |
| lamont | netgear card happy too | 05:04 |
| lamont | tseng: WPC11 ver 4 802-11B wireless | 05:05 |
| lamont | not exactly "new" :-) | 05:05 |
| tseng | hmm thats an 11b even | 05:05 |
| tseng | survey says prism2, *should* work | 05:06 |
| lamont | yeah - I need to actually get my AP working, you see... | 05:06 |
| lamont | tseng: btw, url? | 05:10 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| tseng | http://www.kismetwireless.net/cards.shtml | 05:14 |
| === Kamion fixes up wiki/InstallFromKnoppixHowto lots | ||
| Kamion | still recommends base-config in a chroot, which is kinda suboptimal, but it'll do for now | 05:16 |
| Mitario | hello everyone! | 05:16 |
| mvo_ | hi Mitario | 05:16 |
| Mitario | mvo_, seen my updates on upgrade-notifier? | 05:17 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: yes. I checked in a small fix also :) | 05:18 |
| Mitario | cool :) | 05:19 |
| mvo_ | is the upgrade-center available for download somewhere? | 05:19 |
| === Mitario svn ups | ||
| Mitario | mvo_, umm, well I did the rewrite in python | 05:19 |
| Mitario | with python-apt | 05:19 |
| mvo_ | I wonder if it is worth the efford to put the build-in window back | 05:19 |
| Mitario | but I have not yet made a package or buildsystem for it | 05:19 |
| Mitario | true | 05:19 |
| Mitario | IMO it isn't nescesairy | 05:19 |
| mvo_ | ok | 05:20 |
| Mitario | does anyone here know a neet buildsystem for python apps? | 05:20 |
| Mitario | mvo_, i can send you the source I have now though | 05:23 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: yes, please do :) | 05:23 |
| === Mitario makes a tarball | ||
| Mitario | oh, I was a bit stuck on setting selections in synaptic though, but i'll ask that later | 05:24 |
| Mitario | mvo_, see http://luon.net/~michiels/ubuntu/update-manager.tar.gz | 05:26 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: looks very nice! | 05:28 |
| Mitario | :) | 05:29 |
| rburton | i best refactor app-install and make a tarball for people to poke at too | 05:30 |
| Mitario | app-install was that neet app you showed us some days ago? | 05:30 |
| rburton | aye | 05:30 |
| Mitario | nice :) | 05:30 |
| rburton | it just removed and installed gaim | 05:31 |
| rburton | (via synaptic) | 05:31 |
| Mitario | cool :) | 05:31 |
| Mitario | oh, can you show me your synaptic --set-selection method? | 05:31 |
| === mvo_ is very happy about all that progress | ||
| === Mitario played with it a bit, couldn't get it to work | ||
| rburton | Mitario, okay to /query? | 05:31 |
| Mitario | sure | 05:32 |
| Mitario | mvo_, anyways, seen the --with-package-manager option? | 05:35 |
| mvo_ | Mitario: yes! | 05:39 |
| Mitario | ok, i did that so distributions/maintainers can use the package manager of choice | 05:39 |
| Mitario | so for ubuntu (or at least my packages :) I would use --with-pkg-manager=/usr/bin/update-manager or something | 05:40 |
| elmo | oh, of the 326, only 248 actually have newer versions | 05:42 |
| fabbione | elmo: don't count xfree86. we are not going to merge it from sid | 05:45 |
| fabbione | elmo: we will kill it as soon as we have x.org | 05:45 |
| doko | elmo: and many can be just re-synced. | 05:47 |
| mako | T-Bone: hey there.. give me a couple minutes | 05:51 |
| T-Bone | mako: ok sure! just wanted to make sure you were alive ;) | 05:51 |
| daniels | fabbione: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49038 | 05:53 |
| fabbione | daniels: i didn't build Xx86rush yet | 05:54 |
| fabbione | i can test it on the fly | 05:54 |
| fabbione | i was just searching for a simple lib to trash before the meeting :-) | 05:55 |
| fabbione | daniels: if it doesn't contain *gl* anywhere in the name it's ok :) | 05:55 |
| daniels | heh | 05:56 |
| daniels | fabbione: anyway, that bug and the attached fd.o one are pretty much the canonical fixes | 05:57 |
| daniels | look like they're fixed upstream anyway | 05:57 |
| daniels | oh yeah, dlloader works out of the box | 05:57 |
| daniels | if you want to go for a triple-whammy we can KILL ELFLOADER with EXTREME PREJUDICE | 05:58 |
| tseng | dlloader rocks | 05:58 |
| daniels | it sure does | 05:58 |
| daniels | even better than dlloader is the loader in debrix | 05:58 |
| daniels | daniels@nanasawa:~/x/debrix/debrix/hw/xorg/loader% wc -l *.[ch] | tail -1 | 05:59 |
| daniels | 897 total | 05:59 |
| daniels | daniels@nanasawa:~/x/xorg/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/loader% wc -l *.[ch] | tail -1 | 05:59 |
| daniels | 13417 total | 05:59 |
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| fabbione | daniels: one thing at a time | 06:02 |
| fabbione | let's get X.org out of my harddisks first | 06:03 |
| daniels | heh | 06:03 |
| tseng | oh daniels, do you know anything about tv out on ati? | 06:04 |
| fabbione | daniels: Xx86rush compiles perfectly here | 06:04 |
| fabbione | they are on crack | 06:04 |
| daniels | fabbione: merged into xorg, then | 06:05 |
| fabbione | daniels: could be | 06:05 |
| daniels | tseng: 'don't' | 06:05 |
| daniels | tseng: how recent? | 06:05 |
| tseng | i have an radeon mobility, few months old and a radeon aiw 9200 | 06:06 |
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| daniels | should be fine with the mobility, likely sol with the 9200 | 06:06 |
| tseng | just wondering if xorg will do anything for me, ati-drivers are the suck | 06:06 |
| daniels | for the mobility, google for atitvout | 06:06 |
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| __daniel | hai | 06:37 |
| Mitario | heya | 06:57 |
| __daniel | brb | 06:59 |
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| lamont | Kamion/Thom: please rename warty-rc2-live-i386.iso to warty-release-live-i386.iso. Ditto for .torrent | 07:05 |
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| elmo | kamion/thom/whoever: and please let me know, when it's done so I can upload it to the CD pressers | 07:12 |
| thom | not me, this is all kamio | 07:12 |
| Kamion | thom: you need to do torrents :) | 07:13 |
| Kamion | I'll look, may not be done until the meeting's over | 07:13 |
| daniels | thom: isn't it great how much time tab completion saves you? :P | 07:15 |
| Kamion | lamont: (mdz's confirmed?) | 07:16 |
| mdz | elmo: confirm the md5sum with lamont | 07:16 |
| mdz | his latest bits are the ones which should go out | 07:16 |
| === lamont md5sums | ||
| elmo | dac84a3abf5a1a104d768d569a62579e warty-rc2-live-i386.iso | 07:19 |
| lamont | dac84a3abf5a1a104d768d569a62579e warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso | 07:19 |
| lamont | that should match rookery | 07:19 |
| lamont | should match releases.u.c | 07:19 |
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| ctalkep | hi guys | 07:23 |
| ctalkep | is daf here? | 07:23 |
| daniels | ctalkep: he's on the channel | 07:24 |
| ctalkep | well... | 07:24 |
| daf | ctalkep: hi | 07:25 |
| ctalkep | daf, , hi | 07:27 |
| ctalkep | daf, been looking for you for several days | 07:27 |
| daf | I'm not always around on weekends | 07:28 |
| ctalkep | daf, wanted to contact you about the translation project, since you are in charge | 07:28 |
| ctalkep | i read at the list that the installer is about to be the most important part to be translated, so is that where we need to start? | 07:29 |
| daf | I recommend you choose something you would personally like to see better translated | 07:33 |
| daf | also, it's a good idea to take into account what experience you have when you start translating | 07:34 |
| daf | some programs are easier to translate than others | 07:34 |
| daf | and you have an advantage if you're translating a piece of software you're familiar with | 07:34 |
| ctalkep | i see | 07:35 |
| ctalkep | daf, so there is no structured schedule ? | 07:36 |
| daf | no | 07:37 |
| daf | it's a free-for-all | 07:37 |
| ctalkep | daf, sorry, got to leave for a while, be right back, wanted to ask you and on the web site translation | 07:37 |
| daf | ok, see you later | 07:37 |
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| lucas_ | hi | 08:07 |
| Kamion | thom: updated live CDs, please check torrents | 08:08 |
| thom | Kamion: 'k | 08:08 |
| aj | how are you making your live cds? | 08:13 |
| aj | manually, or fai, or other automation? | 08:13 |
| daniels | manual, aiui | 08:13 |
| jdub | well | 08:15 |
| jdub | morphix-manual | 08:15 |
| thom | lamont/kamion: torrents torrentified | 08:16 |
| lamont | aj: morphix-mmaker | 08:16 |
| lamont | invoked manually atm | 08:17 |
| Kamion | lamont: I assume you or somebody will figure out who's sending the release announcement | 08:19 |
| Kamion | canonical URL is http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso BTW | 08:19 |
| lamont | Kamion: yes, once the meeting is over, I'll work with mdz/jdub/whoever and make it happen | 08:21 |
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| ctalkep | daf, you still here? | 09:17 |
| daf | yep | 09:19 |
| ctalkep | daf, so, do i take the files for translation from the debian repository? | 09:22 |
| daf | that depends on what you want to translate | 09:23 |
| ctalkep | daf, i was hoping there was someone out there to tell me what should be done,:), but since i'm on my own i don't generally care | 09:25 |
| ctalkep | daf, and i am so impressed with ubuntu, that i wanted to begin with it's translation | 09:27 |
| daf | well, it's really up to you | 09:29 |
| daf | find something you like using which needs work and work on it | 09:29 |
| daf | have you already managed to get Ubuntu working in your language? | 09:29 |
| ctalkep | haven't started yet | 09:31 |
| ctalkep | wanted to first get a grip of the situation | 09:32 |
| ctalkep | i guess i'll just start with that | 09:33 |
| ctalkep | then what about the web site translation? | 09:33 |
| ctalkep | there are a lot of people here working with linux, yet few of them are comfortable with english | 09:34 |
| daf | web site translation is not possible at the moment | 09:34 |
| ctalkep | i think it would bea great advantage, since there are only few online sources of information on linux/unix now | 09:34 |
| daf | we're working on that | 09:34 |
| ctalkep | i see | 09:34 |
| daf | I'll make an announcement as soon as it's ready | 09:35 |
| daf | running Ubuntu in your language would be a good start | 09:35 |
| ctalkep | i will begin with that then | 09:35 |
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| dany | to beshe na purvata vuzmojna opcia be | 10:18 |
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| pitti | So we can now upload our stuff into Hoary? Or shall we wait for the sync first? | 10:49 |
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| hornbeck | is there anyway to find out what was said in the meeting today? | 11:11 |
| hornbeck | like a log or something | 11:11 |
| mdz | pitti: if you have packages to upload which do not interefere with the sync, I think it is fine. elmo can confirm | 11:13 |
| mdz | hornbeck: there will be a transcript and summary posted to the list | 11:13 |
| mdz | hornbeck: if you want something now, I can send you a copy of my scrollback | 11:13 |
| pitti | mdz: I already synced some packages (hal and gvm), so it would actually ease the merge | 11:13 |
| pitti | hornbeck: I have a copy here | 11:14 |
| Mitario | hmm, I'm wonderwing if it'd be usefull for ubuntu/me if i'd sign up for wannebe maintainer :) | 11:14 |
| pitti | hornbeck: http://www.piware.de/ubuntu-meeting-20041025.txt | 11:14 |
| pitti | mdz: but if there is already an automated merging process, I can defer uploading | 11:15 |
| mdz | pitti: should be fine, send mail to Keybuk to notify him that you have done it | 11:16 |
| pitti | mdz: okay, I will CC elmo as well | 11:16 |
| elmo | eh, I think we should try and sync where possible? | 11:16 |
| elmo | rather than do uploads? | 11:17 |
| hornbeck | pitti, mdz: thanks I am reading pitti's copy | 11:17 |
| pitti | elmo: I packaged a completely new hal version which just arrived at experimental | 11:17 |
| pitti | elmo: I just don't know what is easier: let you finish the automatic merging and upload afterwards, or upload immediately | 11:17 |
| hornbeck | mdz: a bounty for a python port of yelp? | 11:18 |
| pitti | elmo: but we changed so many things in hal and gvm that even manual merge was a PITA; I think it isn't possible automatically | 11:18 |
| elmo | pitti: what am I saying is, if ubuntu-version will == debian-version, I think we should sync | 11:19 |
| pitti | elmo: not really | 11:19 |
| pitti | elmo: I took the new Debian version, and redid the Ubuntu modifications as clean patches | 11:19 |
| pitti | elmo: same with g-v-m | 11:20 |
| pitti | elmo: I will need to upload anyway, but I want to do it at a time when it does not interfere with merging | 11:20 |
| elmo | then go ahead and upload | 11:22 |
| elmo | tho the cron jobs are disabled right now | 11:22 |
| elmo | only 800 or so more packages to sync in universe | 11:22 |
| pitti | elmo: okay, if now is a good time | 11:22 |
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| hornbeck | mdz: I would like to do the Ubuntu in a Nutshell, if there are no other takers | 11:26 |
| jdub | hornbeck: that'll be a more-than-one-man project, probably involving some canonical contracts too | 11:29 |
| hornbeck | jdub: I would really like to work on it if I can | 11:30 |
| hornbeck | I really want to put something out that is not just internet based | 11:30 |
| hornbeck | well I am off to work again | 11:35 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck: i like the idea, who is the publisher of the "in a nutshell" series? | 11:42 |
| tseng | oreilly and associates | 11:42 |
| sabdfl | tseng: thanks | 11:43 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl oreilly | 11:43 |
| tseng | we could say | 11:43 |
| tseng | "ubuntu in a clamshell" :D | 11:43 |
| hornbeck | "ubuntu in a akorn" | 11:43 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck: go ahead and approach them if you like, with my support | 11:43 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl: I will try :-) | 11:43 |
| hornbeck | If I go about this, I don't think I will get much real docs done | 11:44 |
| tseng | there are several other publishers with an eye towards open source as well | 11:44 |
| hornbeck | but it will be a major doc in and of itself | 11:44 |
| tseng | if that is the route you are going | 11:44 |
| hornbeck | well it would be nice to get a Ubuntu Book out there | 11:44 |
| hornbeck | I like books | 11:44 |
| tseng | newriders, no starch press | 11:44 |
| === hornbeck works in a library | ||
| hornbeck | no starch is through orielly is it not? | 11:45 |
| tseng | there is some sort of partnership i believe | 11:45 |
| hornbeck | yeah that is what I thought | 11:45 |
| tseng | but no starch is at least externally its own company | 11:45 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl: the nutshell series is more just facts | 11:46 |
| hornbeck | I could approach no starch about doing a "Ubuntu book" | 11:46 |
| hornbeck | or even Oreilly | 11:46 |
| tseng | http://www.nostarch.com/about.htm | 11:46 |
| tseng | oreilly is a distributer for no starch | 11:47 |
| hornbeck | what do you guys think? | 11:47 |
| === tseng cares less about who prints it than the content | ||
| pitti | night | 11:47 |
| tseng | bye pitti | 11:47 |
| hornbeck | well, lets discuss later I have to be at work in 10 minutes | 11:47 |
| tseng | ok | 11:47 |
| tseng | content = #1 | 11:47 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl, tseng: I think I would want to work with all the dev's on this | 11:48 |
| hornbeck | to make it very good | 11:48 |
| tseng | yes. | 11:48 |
| hornbeck | but discussion later | 11:48 |
| tseng | bye | 11:48 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck: to get it done for hoary it may be better to start with a tighter format | 11:48 |
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| Kamion | so, I can upload merges to hoary now? | 11:49 |
| === Kamion cracks his knuckles | ||
| hornbeck | sabdfl: I will put together a outline and mail to you | 11:49 |
| elmo | yeah, if you want | 11:50 |
| elmo | they won't be built/mirrored out for a bit tho | 11:50 |
| sabdfl | hornbeck: i'm already a bottleneck, can you figure this out within the doc team? ping me on irc if you need any specific commitment | 11:51 |
| hornbeck | sabdfl: I will work something out and let you guys know | 11:51 |
| sabdfl | elmo: if we can avoid mirroring for a while, it might be worthwhile | 11:51 |
| === hornbeck is off to work | ||
| sabdfl | maybe publish hoary somewhere where it can break | 11:51 |
| sabdfl | especially if we are going to be uploading new gcc etc | 11:52 |
| sabdfl | once the toolchain is in, we can rebuild | 11:52 |
| sabdfl | or is that toenail-smoking? | 11:52 |
| Kamion | sounds like a plan to me | 11:52 |
| Kamion | or maybe just publish source only | 11:53 |
| elmo | err, I thought we discussed this? | 11:55 |
| elmo | +in the meeting | 11:55 |
| elmo | this is why, I'd held off on hoary so long, because people keep telling me to do entirely conflicting things with hoary :-/ | 11:56 |
| mdz | if we were going to update the toolchain, we should have done that _before_ importing new versions of everything | 11:57 |
| elmo | I can't not mirror hoary, without essentially forking the archive infrastructure. I can do that, if you want but I need to know now. | 11:57 |
| elmo | The only other thing we could do is restrict access to the Packages/Sources files but that certainly won't allow us to en-masse rebuild | 11:58 |
| elmo | or option c) we just put hoary out there, which is what I thought was the plan, and what I had started on doing | 11:58 |
| elmo | by "update the toolchain" you mean switch to gcc3.4/4.0 by default? | 11:59 |
| Kamion | that sounds like bong ... | 11:59 |
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