mdzKamion: warty has bigger warts than that :-)12:00
lucas_Hi, is there some info somewhere on the wiki about how to build custom distribs based on ubuntu ?12:01
tsenglucas_: i think thats a goal of hoary12:01
Kamionmdz: oh yeah12:01
lucas_tseng: arg, not before hoary ? I would have liked to build a warty-derivate ...12:02
mdzlucas_: you can certainly derive from warty if you would like12:02
mdzthere is no step-by-step howto12:03
lucas_mdz: who could give me an overview of how to build a derivate that only adds a dozen of packages ?12:04
=== Kamion wonders vaguely if such a person exists yet. :-)
mdzlucas_: it would be very nearly the same process as building a Debian derivative12:05
lucas_if I knew how to build a debian derivate, I wouldn't be there asking :)12:05
Kamionthe archives of the debian-custom mailing list may have useful information12:05
KamionI think there's a "debian-cdd" howto (or some such name)12:06
jdubpants off dudes12:06
=== Kamion squirts a water pistol at jdub
lucas_ok, thanks for the pointer12:07
jdubow! morning! cold!12:07
mdzI think I am learning about this "cold"12:07
mdzit was only ~16C yesterday12:08
mdzI had to wear sleeves!12:08
=== mdz gathers firewood frantically
jdubrock, the dude who ITPed ifolder has passed it over :)12:09
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Mitariolo everyone12:14
mjg59jdub: Make ifolder non-sucky12:15
jdubtberman is helping with that12:15
jdubhey Mitario 12:15
tsengor use epittance instead12:15
jdubit performs a different function12:16
=== jdub will look at it more after someone like alexl gets his mitts on it
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tsengi think beagle cvs is broken atm, make in the top dir does nothing.12:35
tsengso much for packaging12:35
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mdzKamion: which d-i bit creates /sbin/unconfigured.sh?01:05
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lucas_mdz: which d-i bit copies all .deb from the cdrom to the HD ?01:21
lucas_I thought it was archive-copier, but I read its code01:21
lucas_from the code and apt-cdrom's manpage, it only adds the cdrom entry in /etc/apt/sources.list01:21
lucas_was apt-cdrom hacked to change that ?01:21
tsengbob2: i see the syntax error in tomboy now01:21
lucas_elmo: I read the apt-cdrom source code and still can't find a place where it copies the .deb to the HD.01:21
tsenghornbeck: finishing up libdbus-cil pkg now01:21
tsenghornbeck: care to test on a clean box?01:21
mdzlucas_: apt-cdrom does not do any copying. archive-copier does01:24
lucas_oh, got it01:25
lucas_I was only reading the "prebaseconfig" script01:25
lucas_postinst makes more sense :)01:25
hornbecktseng: yes I would like to try it01:26
hornbeckis it in your repos?01:26
tsengone moment01:26
tsengand not on the box you already installed dbus from cvs on01:26
tsengsince we wont easily know if the dep is filled by the package, or something you installed already01:26
tsengeg, do we need anything more than the dll's01:27
hornbecktseng: I do not think so, I could be wrong though01:27
hornbeckits rare but it has been known to happen :)01:28
tsenghm i guess it needs the .pc also01:28
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tsengdaniels: ping01:31
lucas_mdz: which bit of d-i installs the packages in ubuntu-desktop but not in base after the reboot ?01:35
mdzlucas_: base-config01:36
lucas_oh ok01:36
tsenghornbeck: libdbus-cil is in my repo, with all the +cvs dbus stuff01:38
tsenghornbeck: i took it from thom so im not sure if it is new enough for beagle.. dated 10/701:39
hornbecktseng: I will check in alittle while01:39
hornbeckI am doing school work right now01:39
hornbeckany clue why blam resets to defaults everytime it launches?01:40
lucas_ok, I now have a much clearer view of how d-i works. I'll write a nice howto if I succeed in building an Ubuntu-derivate =) thanks for answering my questions ; good night.01:42
tsengoh hornbeck 01:52
tsengcould you send me that tarball after all, my cvs checkout seems b0rk01:52
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tsengwhen you have a chance that is01:53
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__danielsleep tight02:02
hornbeckyeah tseng02:12
hornbeckcan I get a mail for you02:13
hornbeckon its way02:14
hornbeckevolution is crapping out on sending attachments02:17
hornbeckwill try to send from other account02:17
hornbecktseng: now it is on its way02:23
tsenghornbeck: er dude02:25
tsengi meant beagle02:25
tsengdid i say dbus?02:25
hornbeckhaha, yeah02:26
hornbeckok I will send beagle02:26
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hornbecktseng: now that one is on its way02:27
hornbecktseng: you should shoot for a gecko-sharp-0.6 also :-)02:28
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srbaker_okay, after a full day of ubuntu on my laptop, i'm even more impressed than before.  great work, guys02:39
jdubi've done with install snd_via82xx /bin/true"02:53
jdub^ eeeeeek!02:53
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lamontjdub/mdz: I think rc2 == release.  thoughts?03:06
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hornbeckkinda neat how when you move around the website you are logged in one page than not another, good way to keep people from being able to do anything03:27
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mdzhornbeck: you can use https://site-edit.ubuntulinux.org/ until that's fixed03:49
hornbeckmdz: thanks03:53
hornbeckman that is way to complicated03:55
srbaker_anyone know how i can find out when to expect ubuntu cds?  i'm planning our LUG meeting, and i want to know which one my "introduction to ubuntu" talk (with cds) will take place03:57
mdzhornbeck: it's a bug04:00
mdzlamont: I think we have no choice :-)04:01
mdzsrbaker_: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/007832.html04:01
=== mdz gleefully closes an FTBFS-on-m68k bug
mdzaw, daniels beat me to it04:20
lamontmdz: true, I think there are bugs that would be nice to have fixed, but I think they mostly come back to hwdetection diffs and minifo :-(04:48
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danielsmdz: quick draw, yo04:51
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fabbionemorning guys05:02
danielsmorning papa fabbione05:03
hornbeckgood morning05:03
hornbecknight here :-)05:03
fabbionehey kid05:06
fabbionedaniels: we will probably have a kitchen the first week you will be here :-)))05:08
fabbioneand hopefully the bigger office during the second one05:08
danielsyour timezone shift is bad, dude05:08
fabbionei know05:08
fabbioneit's not like i am having fun waking up at 5 am every day05:10
amu;) 05:22
fabbioneamu: you are not supposed to be awake either ;)05:30
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amufabbione: correct, i lie straight on a slopematte in the southseas, 2 pretty girls make breakfast for me, wow i dream stilD[D[D[D[Dl 05:37
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fabbioneamu: eheheh05:53
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dokomorning fabbione, did you get the debhelper things working?07:26
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion and support on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | Hoary kickoff meeting Monday, 2004-10-25 1600UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
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fabbionexmlconfig.c:912: error: `program_invocation_short_name' undeclared (first use in this function)07:41
fabbioneand errno.h is included07:41
fabbionewhat am I missing here?07:41
Keybuk#define __USE_GNU ?07:42
danielsKeybuk: er, _GNU_SOURCE?07:43
KeybukRedhat found a vulnerability in fileutils (ls and mkdir), that could allow a remote attacker to execute arbitrary code with root privileges.07:44
Keybuk^ ouch07:44
Keybukthough highly odd *how* you'd do that without making ls or mkdir setuid root07:45
KeybukReceived: from 2ens11.uta.edu (2ens11.uta.edu [] ) by07:46
Keybuk        menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951303B0D8A for07:46
Keybuk        <gnome-announce-list@gnome.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:00:13 -0400 (EDT)07:46
=== Keybuk decides that mail is highly suspicious
danielsKeybuk: also, Red Hat know how to spell their company name07:46
Keybukalso the instructions are to untar, build and install a random tar file07:46
KeybukRH ship security updates as RPM07:47
danielsinterestingly, they ship 'fileutils-patch.bin' in that tarfile07:47
danielswhich is an RPM07:47
Keybukah yes, bit red notice on RH.com07:48
fabbionedaniels, Keybuk: thanks...07:48
fabbionei wonder more why it wasn't set automatically07:48
Keybukfabbione: you have to set it to say you're happy that your code is no longer C99/POSIX/blah and you're happy about that07:49
danielsalso, _BSD_SOURCE, _POSIX_SOURCE, and _XOPEN_SOURCE07:49
danielsthe latter two accept numbers as to your level of posix/x/openness07:50
fabbionethe only lib complaining about it is libgl07:53
fabbionei wonder if others are affected too07:53
fabbioneKeybuk: this is dri (black magic wodoo) stuff07:54
fabbionevery difficult to say07:54
fabbionedaniels: what do you think about confining the -D_GNU_SOURCE to libgl ?07:55
danielsyou know how I worked out which flags most modular libs used?07:55
danielsif you can do per-file cflags in imake, even better07:56
danielsmaybe even just a #define _GNU_SOURCE rather than -D07:56
fabbionedaniels: yes i can do that07:56
fabbionedaniels: btw.. all these little changes are just because of -DUseInstalled08:06
fabbionea real pain in the butt08:06
fabbioneand it needs to be done at Imake level08:07
fabbionebut i can still confine it to that specific dir08:09
fabbionethere is no need to force it on the entire lib08:09
danielsfabbione: building mesa/glx and the server separately is a huge pain in the arse08:17
danielsright now you can't do it and keep dri08:17
danielsthat's why my monolithic tree still contains lib/GL and extras/Mesa08:18
daniels(also, Xfont is really bizzaro, but that's another story)08:18
fabbionedaniels: yes i know they circular build-dep08:18
fabbionei already have the xserver source tree as dependency08:18
fabbioneright now libgl is the worst crap i have seen in terms of Imakefile08:19
jdubi'm glad you guys can bond over X horrors08:20
danielsfabbione: isn't it great?08:20
danielsjdub: sort of like old war stories08:20
fabbionejdub: all this stuff is coming out because we are splitting the tree08:20
daniels'and then there was the time I realised half of the XKB code was probably exploitable if someone tried hard enough'08:20
fabbionedaniels: yes, but that doesn't scare me too much08:20
fabbionejdub: as i already told Mark, the amount of work is much higher than what i planned in the beginning08:22
fabbionejdub: unfortunatly i realized it later08:22
fabbionebut we will do our best08:22
sladendaniels: ''But I just typed "2*&)$}{;')(*!" at the keyboard..''08:24
vorlondaniels: so how did you happen upon the Boeing glider story?08:26
=== vorlon had never heard that the mechanics ran out of gas on the way there, though, that's hilarious. :)
Keybukyeah was reading that, is a good telling of it :o)08:27
KeybukI first heard about it reading some racetrack trivia stuff08:27
danielsvorlon: chris blizzard linked to it on his blog08:27
vorlonah. :)08:27
Keybukthere's several examples of races being interrupted by planes doing emergency landings (lots of race tracks are old airfields), but that's the only one which was a commerical liner08:28
=== vorlon had heard about it because his dad is a glider pilot; the story was occasionally brought up as an "and that's why all commercial airline pilots should have to learn to fly gliders", when in reality it's a "and that's why airlines should ground planes that are suffering computer failures" ;)
jdubalthough, knowing your pilot can glide the plane in if there's a problem is kinda nice08:30
lifelessdepends on the plane really :)08:31
vorlonsure, though they showed that the glide ratio on those things really is lousy, and there aren't all that many airline pilots who do know how to fly gliders. :)08:32
jdubdude, if it's a 747-400, i still want to know the guy can glide it08:32
Keybukindeed; the natural state for an out-of-fuel jetliner is "crater"08:32
KeybukSilverstone is pretty fantastic for that; it's still an in-use airfield as well as a F1 Grand Prix race track -- on race day a fleet of helicopters arrives and lands in the middle of the track as all the rich kids get around the parking problems08:34
fabbioneKeybuk: how was the race yesterday?08:35
fabbionei don't have a TV yet :)08:35
Keybukfabbione: got a bit wet, but no major casualties08:35
fabbionewho won?08:35
KeybukKimi 2, Barichello 308:35
Keybuksomewhere a little way back, he toasted his car in the wall during practice so had to take an engine change08:36
Keybukfabbione: you seen the rule changes for 2005 yet?08:36
fabbioneKeybuk: nope.. i only read the one you posted here08:36
fabbioneabout no tyres change during the race08:36
fabbionethat is going to be sooooo boring08:37
Keybukfront wing height and rear wing size reduced; so will be interesting whether we'll see 1980-era wings-fixed-to-noses again08:37
fabbionei hope there is at least the exception in case of rain/dry weather08:37
jdubKeybuk: you'd land a plane on alicia silverstone? bastardo!08:37
Keybukno tyre changes during race (except for environmental conditions)08:37
Keybukin fact, same tyres have to last for both Qualy *and* the race08:37
fabbionewe will see more cars out with falt tyres than anything else08:38
Keybukwhich is interesting that they didn't forbid refuelling as well; because the pit boys won't have much to do now08:38
Keybukengines have to last for two race weekends, not just one08:38
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fabbioneso if one engine blows up08:39
Keybuk9/10 teams want to eliminate tyre testing entirely, so effectively use standardised tyres for all teams08:39
fabbioneyou are out for 2 races08:39
Keybukfabbione: no, just have to take a 10-position penalty08:39
fabbionebah that sucks08:40
Keybuk9/10 teams want to reduce testing to just 10 days throughout the entire season08:40
fabbioneit's getting to complicate08:40
KeybukQualy is going to be Saturday afternoon for a first low-fuel run in previous race finishing order08:40
Keybukthen on Sunday morning, they'll run again with race fuel in reverse order of previous finishing08:40
KeybukPosition will be based on an aggregate of both times08:40
fabbionewhy don't they just use /dev/urandom?08:41
fabbioneit will save them tons of headackes08:41
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Keybukheh, I still think they should go back to the *original* Qualy format, but with the addition that you have to run laps in 15 minute windows (to prevent everyone going out with 10 minutes left on the clock)08:42
sivangmorning all08:43
Keybuknext year's going to be kinda interesting08:43
fabbioneKeybuk: i think they should go back to the original. that's it.. same as it was at Prost and Senna time08:43
fabbionehi sivang 08:43
KeybukMinardi are probably safe, they have their own engines they can run08:43
KeybukJordan are probably safe, they are rumoured to be running Toyota engines next year08:43
sivangfabbione : morning, how are you? :)08:43
KeybukJaguar are still in the shit though, no buyer yet08:44
fabbionesivang: fine thank and you?08:44
fabbioneKeybuk: too bad...08:44
Keybukfabbione: will be amusing, because Ferrari will have to run a third car if they drop out08:44
fabbionei wonder when they will allow more than 2 cars x team08:44
fabbioneKeybuk: uh why?08:45
Keybukit's not a matter of "allow", it'll be a requirement for the top teams08:45
KeybukF1 rules state a minimum of 20 cars must run08:45
Keybukthe third car won't be a points-scorer08:45
Keybukso if you happen to be in the third Ferrari, you don't count08:45
fabbioneand what's the point of having a third car than?08:45
fabbionejust to fill up the grid?08:45
sivangfabbione : not bad at all, I see it's race car discussion day? :)08:45
lifelessthaytan: you shrink you08:45
Keybukit counts for the driver, not the teeam08:45
lifelessbah. sorry08:45
fabbionesivang: well yeah.. i don't have a tv yet in the new house08:46
fabbioneand Keybuk is updating me08:46
Keybukthough I think it'd be sweet if they let Jordan and Minardi have the third cars, and be points-scorers :)08:46
fabbioneKeybuk: understandable... will the team decide which cars will bring points to the team or they will pick the 2 highest score for each race?08:46
Keybuk2 highest runners, I believe08:47
sivangfabbione : don't major sports channels broadcast on the internet as well?08:47
Keybukthough Brundle was being cynical and suggesting that a Ferrari 1, 2, 3 is the last thing the sport needs next year :o)08:47
Keybuksivang: no, F1 isn't net-broadcast08:47
sivangKeybuk : this is an european exlusive sport channel I suppose? (I know Eurosport, ESPN for the states etc)08:48
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Keybuksivang: F1 = FIA Formula 108:48
sivangKeybuk : Ah so that's the famous formula 1 races , those are better watched from within the audience ;)08:49
fabbioneKeybuk: ahahah that would own the F1.. Ferrari 1 2 3 :P08:49
Keybukactually, I tend to disagree there ... they are fantastic to attend; but you get a better race if you watch at home08:49
fabbioneyou don't see anything at the race08:50
fabbioneit gets too messy08:50
danielsit's way too much to go here08:50
danielsprices start at about $au450 or so08:50
Keybukfabbione: not really likely though, Ferrari are notably mid-field at the moment -- all the other teams have caught up; even Schumy is notably off-pace08:50
Keybukit's almost as if he's bored, he's made silly mistakes in the last several races08:51
fabbioneKeybuk: yeah well... he is demotivated after winning the championship08:53
Keybukwhich is odd for Michael, he's normally even more motivated afterwards and just driving for fun08:54
Keybukhe is the "oldest man in F1" now ... though I give him a few more years yet, I expect we're starting to see the peak of his career08:55
fabbioneyeah i agree08:55
Keybukstill waiting to see who'll be in the 2nd Williams08:56
Keybukand, if they have to, 3rd Ferrari and BAR08:56
Keybuk(I guess the latter will be Anthony Davidson)08:56
fabbioneprobably Fittipaldi?08:57
fabbioneisn't he the test driver for Ferrari?08:58
Keybukno idea08:58
danielsyay Webber08:59
fabbionemake[1] : Leaving directory `/usr/src/xorg/xorg-lib-gl-6.8.1/build-tree/xc/lib/GL'09:08
fabbionetouch stampdir/build09:08
fabbionedaniels: isn't about time to sign my gpg keys?09:09
jdubfabbione: last time i asked daniels about signing your key, he said he wasn't sure that you really were 'Fabio, The Most Beautiful Man In The World'09:09
=== vorlon vouches for fabbione's beauty
fabbionejdub: you didn't even want to exchange id's with me :(09:12
fabbionevorlon: eheh09:12
jdubfabbione: we've already exchanged, haven't we? at the original uk meeting09:13
fabbionejdub: only for one of my key09:13
fabbionei am searching sigs for my new shiny 4096RSA key and the canonical key ;)09:13
fabbionegpg --list-sigs fabbione@fabbione.net |grep Jeff09:14
fabbioneso that means that even if we exachanged... you didn't sign09:15
jdubi didn't ;)09:15
fabbioneyou suck :P09:15
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danielsyeah, i should probably sign keys from oxford ... and akademy ... and ols ... and lca ...09:20
ajheh, i should probably sign keys from lca ... 200109:20
fabbioneaj: and debconf4 :-)09:21
fabbioneor was it 3?09:21
fabbionethe one in Olso..09:21
daniels3 was oslo, 4 was brazil09:23
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fabbionedaniels: is there actually any reason why we build libgl1.2 when 1.4 is available in debian?10:01
fabbioneusr/lib/libGL.so.1.4.500                                    libs/mesag3,libs/mesag3-glide2,libs/mesag3+ggi10:01
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danielsfabbione: yeah -- mesa built independently from X is incapable of direct rendering10:04
danielsonly software10:04
danielsworking on using debian's mesa on a branch was what got me kicked out of the XSF the first time :P10:05
Gmailin how many hr is the meeting?10:05
Gmaili want to getready10:05
Gmailbut i think its in 8hrs10:06
fabbionedaniels: ok... and do you happen to remember why there is a /usr/lib/libGL link to /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL ?10:07
danielsprobably because people suck and hardcoded the path10:07
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danielsfabbione: just like the rest of /usr/X11R6 :)10:08
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fabbionedaniels: eh the libgl1 stuff is complex10:10
fabbionebecause libgl1 is a virtual package provided by several other packages10:11
fabbionethere is all a rationale behind it10:11
fabbioneit's in debian/changelog10:11
fabbionethat also means that i cannot call the package libgl110:11
danielsoh, right10:11
fabbioneand that seriously SUCKS HARD10:11
danielsso you're saying there's a /usr/lib/libGL->/usr/X11R6/lib/libgl link?10:11
fabbionedaniels: there is a link because that link is handled by different packages as far as i can see10:12
fabbioneso yes.. it needs to stay as symlink10:12
danielshey, wait ...10:12
=== fabbione is seriously disappointed by this GL mess
danielsthey're trying to fix that upstream, so mesa will be capable of direct rendering when built separately10:17
fabbionedaniels: i think i will keep the same name schema we have in Debian now.. even if i think it sucks10:17
fabbionexlibmesa-* has nothing to do with libgl10:18
fabbionebut that's the easiest i think10:18
danielsi don't really like xlibmesa10:19
danielsi would personally prefer libgl1-xorg10:19
fabbioneor xorg-libgl110:20
fabbionethat is slightly more coherent with all the other packages10:20
fabbionelike 171 xorg-source-*10:20
fabbionePackage: xorg-libgl110:21
fabbionePackage: xorg-libgl-dev10:21
fabbionePackage: xorg-libgl-dri10:21
danielsmmm, but libgl1-* is far more compliant with standard naming scheme's10:22
danielsx's is total bong10:22
daniels(the xlib* mess being a bad hangover)10:22
danielsalso, libgl1-dri is bad because we're not actually dri10:23
danielsthat's dri.sf.net10:23
danielsso i propose libgl1-xorg, but your call10:23
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fabbionelet's keep it as xorg-libgl*10:25
fabbionewe can easily change it later10:26
danielsfabbione: hm10:26
fabbionethere is the same mess with xorg-libosmesa10:26
danielsfabbione: as i said, your call10:26
fabbionedaniels: as i said.. it's a detail right now10:26
danielsbut in my packages, it's libgl1-xorg, libosmesa4-xorg, et al10:26
fabbionewe can change later ;)10:26
danielswe can fight it out in denmark :)10:26
fabbionedaniels: the ring is ready.. time for the cage :P10:27
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Keybuk1,320 changesets for warty10:46
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fabbionedaniels: can you gice me the output of objdump --all-headers libGL.so.1.2 | grep TEXTREL on your libGL ?11:01
fabbioneand on libosmesa411:01
fabbionehey sabdfl 11:01
danielsfabbione: there should be no TEXTREL -- see my make libGL PIC-compliant patch11:02
fabbionedaniels: that's what i was searching for11:03
danielsi have no TEXTREL here11:03
danielsbut yeah, I wrote a patch to make GL PIC-compliant11:03
danielsanyway, dinnertime11:03
fabbioneyeah it didn't apply clean.. i will check it again11:04
fabbionei remember the first time i didn't do it deeply11:04
danielsjakub jelinek did a better one, might be applied now11:05
danielsthat will make gl *significantly* *quicker*11:05
danielsanyway, dinner11:05
sabdflhiya fabbione11:05
Kamionmdz: d-i doesn't create /sbin/unconfigured.sh; that's a boot-floppies thing11:06
Kamionmdz: instead, /etc/inittab is just set to run base-config until base-config rewrites it not to do that11:07
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=== fabbione starts to wonder if do we really have to support GL
danielsfabbione: that's the unfortunate reality11:35
fabbionedaniels: i rediffed your patch and now libGL is PIC compliant11:39
fabbionebut libosmesa4 isn't11:39
danielsyeah, that probably still needs doing11:39
fabbioneand probably your version isn't linked properly either11:39
fabbionethe Imake is missing a REQUIREDLIBS = MathLibrary11:40
fabbionei start to eat Imakefiles for breakfast11:40
danielsyeah, that's a patch from Gentoo I never got to integrating11:41
danielstheir BTS has a few patches to practically eliminate all weak references11:41
danielsi was working on debrix at that stage, and couldn't be arsed dealing with Branden to get it into the Debian tree11:41
fabbionethe debian patch applie on xfree86 but not x.org11:43
danielswhich debian patch?11:44
fabbioneok fixed11:44
fabbionethe 062_11:44
fabbioneis the same you geve to me11:44
danielsthe libGL PIC one?11:44
fabbionegave to me11:44
fabbionethat one doesn't apply to x.org11:44
fabbioneand i rediffed11:44
fabbionenow it is ok11:44
fabbionelibosmesa was ranting about TEXTREL because it was not properly linked with MathLibrary11:44
fabbioneso that is fixed too11:45
fabbionehmm no hold on11:45
fabbionei used the wrong the script for the PIC11:45
=== fabbione sighs
fabbioneat least it is linked properly11:46
danielsthat's a small part of the patch11:49
danielsyou'll want that if you want a shared Xau lib (I want a shared Xau lib)11:49
fabbionewe already have a share libXau11:50
fabbionethe last patch is only partially true11:51
fabbionethe pic problem is still there11:51
fabbioneand it's not a link issue11:51
fabbionethese are easy to fix11:51
danielsgl pic is a bitch11:52
danielsand when you do get it right, you lose arseloads of performance11:52
fabbioneGL is PIC now11:52
fabbionewe only miss libosmesa411:52
ajyo, keybuk!12:01
Keybukaj: hey12:02
fabbioneis there a generic way to find code that makes a lib non-pic?12:02
ajhrm, now i should find that bugnumber12:02
Keybukfabbione: not easily12:03
Keybukgrepping the resulting assembler *shrug*12:03
ajKeybuk: Bug 62529 -- what're the chances of getting something done about it?12:04
fabbioneKeybuk: ok....12:04
fabbionewell... almost12:04
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Keybukaj: reasonably high, I think that's one I read over the weekend12:05
ajyeah, you did12:05
ajor someone pretending to be you set it to wishlist, anyway12:05
KeybukI favour the "does the -revision contain .0.x" trick12:05
Keybukit's one lamont and elmo keep poking me about :)  so expect it to be one of the first bugs fixed once sarge has its translation update release12:06
aji'll see if i can get kamion to poke you about it too12:07
KamionKeybuk: (consider yourself poked)12:23
=== daniels pokes Keybuk, for the hell of it.
daniels(all the cool kids are doing it)12:24
=== Keybuk pokes daniels back
KamionKeybuk: might be worth going over queue/done to check whether any sourceful uploads in the last <whatever> have been versioned .0.x12:25
Kamionoh, .0.x doesn't work, binNMUs of sourceful NMUs are .1.x etc.12:25
KeybukKamion: there are a few upstream examples (usually bpb) but seeing as policy says .0.x in the revision is a bin-nmu, I think anyone who does it is silly12:25
Kamiondoesn't work on its own, anyway12:25
KeybukKamion: elaborate?12:26
KamionMU 1.0-2, sourceful NMU 1.0-2.1, binNMU 1.0-2.1.112:26
Keybukwhy 1.1 ?12:27
Kamionbecause -2.0.1 would be less than -2.1 and - would be excessively long?12:27
danielsKeybuk: rebuild of 2.112:27
danielshence, 2.1.112:27
KamionI think the idea is third level of Debian revision = recompile12:27
Kamiondunno, just know it's historical fact :)12:28
KeybukI get worried about not making it *look* magic12:28
Keybuk.0.x is pretty rare12:28
Keybuk.1.x is common for general usage12:29
KamionI'm just observing what people have historically done12:29
Kamionalso, katie supports .<whatever>.<whatever>12:29
Kamionre_bin_only_nmu_of_mu = re.compile("\.\d+\.\d+$");12:30
Kamionre_bin_only_nmu_of_nmu = re.compile("\.\d+$");12:30
Kamionall I'm saying is it'd be worth checking queue/done, since people do all sorts of weird shit and it might be worth choosing something with maximal weird-shit deflection potential :-)12:31
danielsheh :)12:34
danielsthe software design metric of the future!12:34
ajKeybuk: feel free to make up your own magic, like .recN, or .0.N$ or something different12:39
ajKeybuk: we can always just REJECT anything that doesn't match the magic12:39
=== Keybuk hunts for a spare character on the keyboard <g>
ajnew characters would be bad, though; cf ~...12:40
Keybukat least ~ actually makes sense12:40
Keybukcf. patch, diff -ru foo-1.0~ foo-1.012:40
ajyeah, but it's a nuisance trying to get it to actually work12:41
Keybukhrm, ".." could be cute foo_1.0-1..112:42
ajeww! that so gross!12:42
ajeww, only [0-9A-z+.]  to play with12:43
Keybuk+ tends to get used for what ~ is intended for12:44
Keybuk* Not changed: geda-gschem  ... (ugh, that's a horrible package name)12:45
ajajt@newraff:~/queue/done$ find | grep -- '-.*\.0+1_' | wc -l12:45
aj      012:45
Keybukaj: that's certainly a useful idea then12:46
ajfoo_1.0-1.0+1 would work12:46
aj*shrug* i'm happy if you break things though, REJECTing is easy :)12:46
ajanything that actually gets implemented gets my vote12:46
Keybukare there any in queue/done that end in "+\d*" ?12:46
Keybukupstream included12:46
sivangmantis will be used by ubuntu after bugzilla?12:48
Keybuk*nods* I'll bounce off lamont when he wakes up and see if he has any opinions12:49
aj"rc+\d" doesn't match anything, so foo_1.0-1.rc+1 would work too12:49
Keybuk"rc" ?12:49
aj+rc1 matches release candidates otoh12:49
Keybukyeah I read "rc" as "Release Candidate"12:51
ajrb+1 for rebuild, maybe12:51
aj+rb\d works too12:52
KeybukI like the +<something>\d+ form ... foo_1.0-1.1+rebuild3 ... kinda reads as "and 3 rebuilds"12:54
azeem'rebuild' is relatively short so it could be spelt out, IMHO12:57
azeemdoesn't make people like me wonder what it means, as e.g. with 'ds'12:57
Keybukit doesn't really matter too much, as it's not important for anyone but buildd freaks :)01:01
Keybukaj: is +b\d used?01:01
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ajno +b\d01:03
Keybukcool, that's reasonably short01:04
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mvo_hi seb128 01:05
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sid77hi all01:13
=== sid77 is away: Far from here (close to you)
fabbionedaniels: ping01:30
danielsfabbione: 2676 is yours01:32
fabbionedaniels: i was talking with Overfiend right now01:33
fabbionehe wrote that section of policy about */X1101:33
fabbioneand he said that we can go as we like01:33
fabbionethat means no X11R601:33
danielsremember you're the maintainer, ultimately -- /usr and /usr/X11R6 is your call01:34
danielsyou know my opinion by now, I'm sure :)01:34
fabbionedaniels: yes i know your opinion01:35
fabbioneright now i want to get libgl out of my way01:36
fabbionebut the problem is still that TEXTREL01:36
fabbioneand i can't find the piece of code generating it01:36
fabbioneosmesa.c includes 3 tons of crap01:36
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fabbione * \file imports.h01:43
fabbioneit seems to be the one at fault01:43
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danielssid77: please turn off public away01:45
lamontKeybuk: what version number?01:51
Keybuklamont: we were discussing bin-nmus01:55
Keybukthe idea that dpkg could recognise a certain form of version number, and generate the changes so it's missing the bit at the end in the Source: header01:56
fabbionedaniels: i think i found a solution to the TEXTREL01:58
danielsfabbione: wassat?01:58
fabbionebut it's going to impact performance. there is no other way around01:58
fabbionecheck imports.g01:58
fabbioneehm .h01:58
danielsall our PIC changes have killed performance01:58
danielsi'm not sitting at a computer with an unpacked tree right now01:58
fabbioneit has several specific asm definition01:58
fabbioneand also a generic portable C one01:59
fabbioneso it's question of do in such a way that it will compile the generic one01:59
danielspersonally I'd be shooting to make the ASM PIC-compliant02:00
lamontKeybuk: .0.N is kinda defacto, you know.02:00
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Keybuklamont: except Kamion was saying it wasn't, and that when a source-NMU has been done, you do .N; and it's not safe when applied to upstream02:05
fabbionedaniels: well.. if you know enough about asm.. patches are welcome :-)02:06
lamontand no real standard exists for native packages.02:06
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Keybuklamont: so we were discussing going with something else entirely ... I personally like +b1, +b2 etc.02:07
KamionI think that's why I ended up liking aj's DEB_RECOMPILE suggestion after thinking about it, but some convention that nobody's used yet would work too02:07
KamionKeybuk: you know some smartarse will use it for beta versions though - why abbreviate?02:07
lamontthe code I've seen basically says "if there are 3 more components in the debian version number, and there is source excluding either the last 1 or 2 components (which must be numeric), then that's it...'02:07
lamontof course, anything that is not '.x.y' will require changes in katie and sbuild, to name just a few.02:09
danielsfabbione: look at the way I did libGL :P02:09
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lamontKeybuk: the goal here is for dpkg to know that it's building an NMU?02:11
lamonter, binNMU?02:11
elmomore that the archive can know reliably, I suspect02:12
lamontnote also that a binNMU of a package in ubuntu is newer than the ubuntu version...  (1-1.0.1 > 1.1ubuntu1)02:13
danielslamont: er, is it really?02:13
lamontelmo: ah, right.02:13
lamontdaniels: yep.02:13
danielsi would've thought that 1ubuntu1 > 1.002:13
lamontdpkg --compare-versions 1.0.1 gt 1ubuntu1 && echo y02:14
lamontdaniels: thanks for playing, though.02:14
Keybukdaniels: "." > "u"02:14
elmolamont: (ITYM, 'kthxbye' :P)02:15
lamontfortunately, the only binNMU in warty has a newer version in sid02:15
lamontelmo: lol02:15
lamontsablevm, for those with scorecard02:15
Keybuklamont: yeah, basically it's so dpkg-genchanges can go "ah, a recompile, I'll stick 'Source: foo (1.0-1)' in then"02:15
danielselmo: the ubuntuforums folk are find of 'k thnx.02:16
fabbionethat asm isolation killed my ccache02:18
lamontKeybuk: then it's probably just a matter of getting all the principals in one place an picking a format,eh?02:20
lamontpersonally, I don't really care, so long as the next sourceful upload has a higher version02:20
lamontfor extra credit, pick something < 'u' :-)02:21
Keybukthat's kinda tricky02:22
Keybukyou'd actually have to pick a new character for that, and put it < 'a'02:22
lamontyeah - that's why it's _extra_ credit02:22
Keybukall punctuation is > 'z' right now02:22
lamontor choose a-t to be the character. :-)02:22
=== lamont ducks
Keybuksee, if you used "x.ubuntu.y"  instead of "xubuntuy" you could use '+', + < '.' ;o)02:23
=== jdub is still wondering wtf derivatives are going to do
lamontKeybuk: yeah, the issue was that we wanted 1ubuntu1 < 1.102:24
Kamionjdub: 1ubuntu1myderivative102:25
Keybukfoo_1.0-1ubuntu5skole3guade2_i386.deb :p02:25
=== lamont must run
lamontback in about 90 minutes or so, actually closer to 2 hours now that I think about it,02:25
elmo326, 326, 350, 22 <-- need-update, up-to-date, ubuntu-modified, ubuntu-specific02:26
lamontKeybuk: truthfully, I don't really mind what it is, so much as I want there to be an official standard for it.02:27
lamontand buyin from all concerned, of course..02:27
Keybukelmo: I have 438 ubuntu-modified02:28
elmokeybuk: I'm only doing main02:32
elmoright now02:32
Keybukahh ok02:32
jdubKamion: that so doesn't scale :)02:32
KeybukI did main+universe I think02:33
elmohmm, I'd kind of forgotten about universe, meh02:33
danielselmo: ubuntu-specific soon to be += ~8002:33
Keybukelmo: you're doing the sync of the need-update ones, right?02:36
elmoKeybuk: getting ready to, yeah02:37
elmoand mailing folks about stuff that would like to be updated, but are ubuntu modified02:37
KeybukI really wish abiword wasn't first on ubuntu-modified :o)02:37
elmoit'd help if there were proper hoary seeds02:38
Keybukmost of my rejects seem to be autofuck updates so far02:39
Keybukwhich is encouraging02:39
Keybukoh, and po/* hell02:40
KeybukI swear, the guys who invented ".po" sat down and designed a file format deliberately intended to be totally unpatchable02:40
thomit's a feature (TM)02:40
=== fabbione kicks libgl straight in the core
Keybukthom: did apache2 steal dpkg-style sorting for filenames ?!02:59
danielswhile we're speaking of httpds, what's up with the indexing on auckland?02:59
Keybuk* kdemultimedia trying 3.2.2-1ubuntu2 + 3.3.0-103:00
Keybuk1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej03:00
Keybuk1 out of 4 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej03:00
Keybuklamont is teh suck03:01
thomKeybuk: hrm?03:01
Keybukthom: I just noticed that the files are sorted correctly03:02
Keybukrather than 1 10 11 203:02
thomah, heh03:02
thomdoubt it's dpkg stealage :-)03:03
Keybukit's not quite right actually, but is close :p03:03
Keybuk[   ]  aiksaurus_1.0.1+cvs.2004.03.15+dev-0.12-0ubuntu1.patch 25-Oct-2004 07:02   91M  03:03
Keybuk[   ]  aiksaurus_1.0.1+cvs.2004.03.15-1ubuntu1.patch          25-Oct-2004 07:02  9.8K  03:03
Keybukthose two should be the other way around :p03:03
jdubso how do i distribute the op love?03:03
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daniels/m chanserv access #ubuntu add nickname 2003:04
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jdubdone for daniels and Keybuk 03:05
jduband thom03:06
jdubanyone else?03:06
danielsthanks dude03:06
danielsi think bob2 wants it, too03:06
jdubdone for lamont03:06
fabbionebah add me too03:06
danielshe was mentioning it a while ago, and is #debian03:06
fabbionejust in case03:06
HauntedUnixHello all.03:06
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seb128why not :)03:07
jdubdone :)03:07
seb128thanks :)03:08
Keybuk* opencv trying 0.9.5-4ubuntu1 + 0.9.5-1003:09
Keybuk1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/changelog.rej03:09
Keybuk2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file debian/control.rej03:09
Keybuko/~ oh, lamont03:09
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fabbionedaniels: getting an wireless AP for the sprint :-)03:15
danielsgood thing, too03:15
=== fabbione gives up on Mesa
danielsthis house is now pretty reliant on my wrt54g :\03:16
fabbionei have tried everything i could to kill that TEXTREL03:16
fabbioneit's gonna be 11Mb03:16
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Keybukrookery scott% grep -c "to file po/" failed.txt03:32
Keybukin fact03:33
Keybukrookery scott% egrep -c "to file (debian/)?po/" failed.txt03:33
Keybukrookery scott% egrep -c "to file debian/(changelog|control)" failed.txt03:33
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Mitariolo everyone03:55
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T-Bonemako: ping04:21
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lamontKeybuk: how bad are the conflicts, I wonder.04:26
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mjg59I'm not able to make the Hoary meeting04:27
mjg59Is there anyone else who would like to raise laptop stuff?04:27
nmfHi all04:29
nmfI have a question I already made on the devel ml but got no (usefull) response, so...04:29
pittimjg59: can you dump your "stuff" that you want to raise on a wiki page?04:29
nmfAre there any plans to make packages like tomcat available?04:29
pittiGuys, does anybody have a PCMCIA card which provides an IDE interface?04:30
=== lamont does somewhere
mjg59pitti: Yeah04:30
Micksawell, some/most CF cards do that04:30
mjg59pitti: Well, PCMCIA->CF adapter04:30
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mjg59Presents as IDE04:30
Micksaand you can get "dumb" CF -> PCMCIA adapters04:30
Micksadammit :)04:31
Micksawhat mjg said04:31
thommjg59: quite happy to, yeah04:31
pittimjg59: I'm currently debugging #2265, and I need people with such cards to execute two commands04:31
pittithe problem is how to reliably tell PCMCIA and "normal" IDE adapters apart; hal's current method is broken04:31
mjg59Oh, and I have a PCMCIA CD drive, too04:32
mjg59I don't have a laptop with PCMCIA running Ubuntu, though :)04:32
pittiI need the output of 'cat /var/lib/pcmcia/stab' and 'cardctl ident'04:32
pittimjg59: I don't think that Ubuntu matters, Debian or another Linux is probably okay, too04:33
pittimjg59: but it should be kernel 2.6, though04:33
danielsmjg59: what sort of laptop stuff do you want me to represent?04:33
pittihal upstream wants to collect the output of these commands to find a better way04:33
pittilamont: can you please send me the output of these commands for your card as well?04:34
pittinmf: we will soon develop a policy for adding user contributed packages to our Universe04:34
pittinmf: by now you can try to get packages from Debian unstable, or if unstable does not have it, from www.apt-get.org04:35
pittinmf: (that is, most unstable packages shoudl already be in our universe)04:35
mjg59daniels: We need to figure out what sort of suspend work to concentrate on - StD is easier but less satisfying, StR is going to need more effort but /ought/ to be possible. We'd need lots of hardware testing, though.04:36
danielsmjg59: *craploads*04:36
mjg59pitti: I have no /var/lib/pcmcia/stab04:37
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mjg59(Or, indeed, a /var/lib/pcmcia)04:37
pittimjg59: hmm, and cardctl ident?04:37
mjg59Socket 0:04:37
mjg59  product info: SAMSUNG, Rev 1.18.4, 04:37
mjg59  manfid: 0x00ce, 0x000004:37
mjg59  function: 4 (fixed disk)04:37
pittimjg59: thanks!04:38
nmfpitti: yeahh, I know I can get them from debian, I'm using them now04:38
pittinmf: the package is most likely not in universe because we don't have Java at the moment; but we will find a solution for this04:38
nmfpitti: the problem is packages like tomcat depend on not-free packages (sun JDK) to build04:38
thomyes, although we should try and work out a way to build them with gcj and see if they work04:39
thomthis needs a test suite, and tomcat didn't have one last i looked04:39
danielscocoon would be phat to have04:39
nmfpitti: ok, if there's anyway I can help to speed up the process, let me know04:39
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danielsthom: (nor last I looked, short of 'it does stuff and works' or 'it crashes')04:40
danielsrburton: hey dude04:40
thomdaniels: aye04:40
rburtonhi daniels 04:40
thomafternoon ross04:40
nmfthom: I think most packages in debian that can work with free JVMs/JDKs already have the correct dependencies04:40
rburtonthom: afternoon04:40
fabbionehey ross04:40
rburtonhey fabbione 04:41
rburtongood afternoon all04:41
rburtonmvo_, synaptic --set-selections isn't doing the right thing for me04:41
rburtoni clearly tell it "gaim\tremove" and it doesn't do it04:42
=== mvo_ is having a look
rburtonignore me04:42
=== rburton fixes stupid bug
mvo_rburton: gaim delete ...04:43
=== mvo_ blushes
tsenghey thom, any idea how to solve this one.. dbus-1 starts networkmanager before hald04:43
lamontnmf: wrt tomcat:04:44
lamontmultiverse/web/tomcat4_4.1.30-6: Dep-Wait by buildd+mcmurdo [optional:uncompiled] 04:44
lamont  Dependencies: j2sdk1.404:44
lamontso warty only has source. :-(04:45
lamontpitti: booting now04:45
mvo_rburton: it's either "delete" or "uninstall"04:45
rburtonmvo_, aah. that would stop the run i was about to do. whats the difference?04:46
lamontpitti: 4MB pcmcia card, and CF-adapter, fwiw04:46
pittilamont: does /var/lib/pcmcia exist on your box?04:46
mvo_rburton: there is none. it's just for conenience04:46
tsengthom: should /etc/dbus/event.d have numbered scripts perhaps?04:46
rburtonmvo_, k04:46
mvo_rburton: I can add "purge" if you need it04:46
rburtonmvo_, could be useful, but i may just use remove04:47
lamontpitti: no04:47
rburtonuninstall even04:47
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pittilamont: hm; /var/cache/pcmcia maybe?04:47
pittilamont: find /var -name stab  ?04:48
lamont /var/run/stab...04:48
=== lamont upgrades
pittimjg59: does /var/run/stab exist? Does it look as if it has sth to do with PCMCIA?04:49
lamontanyone want to tell me why apt wants to upgrade gnome-cpufreq-applet over and over...04:49
rburtonmvo_, is therea way to force the terminal window to close when it is finished?04:49
lamontPreparing to replace gnome-cpufreq-applet 0.1.3-1 (using .../gnome-cpufreq-applet_0.1.3-1_i386.deb) ...04:49
lamontle huh?04:49
pittilamont: can you please /msg me this file and the output of 'cardctl ident'?04:49
mvo_rburton: it's a bug if it does not close with "--non-interactive". I'll fix this 04:50
pittilamont: maybe version +0.0001 and dpkg rounds to two digits? :-)04:50
mjg59pitti: Nope04:50
mjg59pitti: (As in, it doesn't exist)04:50
rburtonmvo_, but app-install just removed and installed gaim for me. synaptic's cli stuff is useful, thanks04:50
pittimjg59: hmm, thanks anyway04:50
mjg59Hmm. That's odd - I plug the card in, hal-device-manager briefly shows two partitions, and then they go away again04:51
=== mvo_ would love to try rburtons app-install
mjg59pitti: Oh, hang on - it's suddenly appeared04:51
mjg59Socket 0: ATA/IDE Fixed Disk04:51
mjg590       ide     ide-cs  0       hde     33      004:51
nmflamont: that's the problem I was talking about, it depends on Sun JDK so it never gets built.04:52
lamontnmf: right04:52
nmfAnyone knows how contrib packages build is handled on debian?04:52
thomtseng: yes04:53
mjg59nmf: It's not autobuilt04:53
lamontnmf: buildd's try, if the non-free stuff is there, then maybe it works.04:53
pittimjg59: thanks04:53
lamontotherwise, some random d-d uploads the binaries04:53
thomjust spoke to (one of) the maintainers about it04:53
danielsnetworkmanager, or dbus?04:53
thomdaniels: dbus-104:53
lamontmjg59: hppa has 88 contrib/ entries in w-b... contrib is autobuilt04:54
lamontjust not with great success...04:54
mjg59Oh, it is? Ha.04:54
danielsthom: the other maintainer sucks04:54
lamontnon-free, OTOH, is definitely not in w-b04:54
lamonthrm... SMC card seems to "just work".  Linksys card not so fortunate.05:03
tsengnew linksys cards tend to be broadcom chips05:04
tsengwhile smc goes with prismX05:04
lamontnetgear card happy too05:04
lamonttseng: WPC11 ver 4 802-11B wireless05:05
lamontnot exactly "new" :-)05:05
tsenghmm thats an 11b even05:05
tsengsurvey says prism2, *should* work05:06
lamontyeah - I need to actually get my AP working, you see...05:06
lamonttseng: btw, url?05:10
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=== Kamion fixes up wiki/InstallFromKnoppixHowto lots
Kamionstill recommends base-config in a chroot, which is kinda suboptimal, but it'll do for now05:16
Mitariohello everyone!05:16
mvo_hi Mitario 05:16
Mitariomvo_, seen my updates on upgrade-notifier?05:17
mvo_Mitario: yes. I checked in a small fix also :)05:18
Mitariocool :)05:19
mvo_is the upgrade-center available for download somewhere?05:19
=== Mitario svn ups
Mitariomvo_, umm, well I did the rewrite in python05:19
Mitariowith python-apt05:19
mvo_I wonder if it is worth the efford to put the build-in window back05:19
Mitariobut I have not yet made a package or buildsystem for it05:19
MitarioIMO it isn't nescesairy05:19
Mitariodoes anyone here know a neet buildsystem for python apps?05:20
Mitariomvo_, i can send you the source I have now though05:23
mvo_Mitario: yes, please do :)05:23
=== Mitario makes a tarball
Mitariooh, I was a bit stuck on setting selections in synaptic though, but i'll ask that later05:24
Mitariomvo_, see http://luon.net/~michiels/ubuntu/update-manager.tar.gz05:26
mvo_Mitario: looks very nice!05:28
rburtoni best refactor app-install and make a tarball for people to poke at too05:30
Mitarioapp-install was that neet app you showed us some days ago?05:30
Mitarionice :)05:30
rburtonit just removed and installed gaim05:31
rburton(via synaptic)05:31
Mitariocool :)05:31
Mitariooh, can you show me your synaptic --set-selection method?05:31
=== mvo_ is very happy about all that progress
=== Mitario played with it a bit, couldn't get it to work
rburtonMitario, okay to /query?05:31
Mitariomvo_, anyways, seen the --with-package-manager option?05:35
mvo_Mitario: yes!05:39
Mitariook, i did that so distributions/maintainers can use the package manager of choice05:39
Mitarioso for ubuntu (or at least my packages :) I would use --with-pkg-manager=/usr/bin/update-manager or something05:40
elmooh, of the 326, only 248 actually have newer versions05:42
fabbioneelmo: don't count xfree86. we are not going to merge it from sid05:45
fabbioneelmo: we will kill it as soon as we have x.org05:45
dokoelmo: and many can be just re-synced.05:47
makoT-Bone: hey there.. give me a couple minutes05:51
T-Bonemako: ok sure! just wanted to make sure you were alive ;)05:51
danielsfabbione: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4903805:53
fabbionedaniels: i didn't build Xx86rush yet05:54
fabbionei can test it on the fly05:54
fabbionei was just searching for a simple lib to trash before the meeting :-)05:55
fabbionedaniels: if it doesn't contain *gl* anywhere in the name it's ok :)05:55
danielsfabbione: anyway, that bug and the attached fd.o one are pretty much the canonical fixes05:57
danielslook like they're fixed upstream anyway05:57
danielsoh yeah, dlloader works out of the box05:57
danielsif you want to go for a triple-whammy we can KILL ELFLOADER with EXTREME PREJUDICE05:58
tsengdlloader rocks05:58
danielsit sure does05:58
danielseven better than dlloader is the loader in debrix05:58
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/x/debrix/debrix/hw/xorg/loader% wc -l *.[ch]  | tail -105:59
daniels  897 total05:59
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/x/xorg/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/loader% wc -l *.[ch]  | tail -105:59
daniels 13417 total05:59
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fabbionedaniels: one thing at a time06:02
fabbionelet's get X.org out of my harddisks first06:03
tsengoh daniels, do you know anything about tv out on ati?06:04
fabbionedaniels: Xx86rush compiles perfectly here06:04
fabbionethey are on crack06:04
danielsfabbione: merged into xorg, then06:05
fabbionedaniels: could be06:05
danielstseng: 'don't'06:05
danielstseng: how recent?06:05
tsengi have an radeon mobility, few months old and a radeon aiw 920006:06
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danielsshould be fine with the mobility, likely sol with the 920006:06
tsengjust wondering if xorg will do anything for me, ati-drivers are the suck06:06
danielsfor the mobility, google for atitvout06:06
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lamontKamion/Thom: please rename warty-rc2-live-i386.iso to warty-release-live-i386.iso.  Ditto for .torrent07:05
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elmokamion/thom/whoever: and please let me know, when it's done so I can upload it to the CD pressers07:12
thomnot me, this is all kamio07:12
Kamionthom: you need to do torrents :)07:13
KamionI'll look, may not be done until the meeting's over07:13
danielsthom: isn't it great how much time tab completion saves you? :P07:15
Kamionlamont: (mdz's confirmed?)07:16
mdzelmo: confirm the md5sum with lamont07:16
mdzhis latest bits are the ones which should go out07:16
=== lamont md5sums
elmodac84a3abf5a1a104d768d569a62579e  warty-rc2-live-i386.iso07:19
lamontdac84a3abf5a1a104d768d569a62579e  warty-live-i386-20041022-04.iso07:19
lamontthat should match rookery07:19
lamontshould match releases.u.c07:19
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ctalkephi guys07:23
ctalkepis daf here?07:23
danielsctalkep: he's on the channel07:24
dafctalkep: hi07:25
ctalkepdaf, , hi07:27
ctalkepdaf, been looking for you for several days07:27
dafI'm not always around on weekends07:28
ctalkepdaf, wanted to contact you about the translation project, since you are in charge07:28
ctalkepi read at the list that the installer is about to be the most important part to be translated, so is that where we need to start?07:29
dafI recommend you choose something you would personally like to see better translated07:33
dafalso, it's a good idea to take into account what experience you have when you start translating07:34
dafsome programs are easier to translate than others07:34
dafand you have an advantage if you're translating a piece of software you're familiar with07:34
ctalkepi see07:35
ctalkepdaf, so there is no structured schedule ?07:36
dafit's a free-for-all07:37
ctalkepdaf, sorry, got to leave for a while, be right back, wanted to ask you and on the web site translation07:37
dafok, see you later07:37
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Kamionthom: updated live CDs, please check torrents08:08
thomKamion: 'k08:08
ajhow are you making your live cds?08:13
ajmanually, or fai, or other automation?08:13
danielsmanual, aiui08:13
thomlamont/kamion: torrents torrentified08:16
lamontaj: morphix-mmaker08:16
lamontinvoked manually atm08:17
Kamionlamont: I assume you or somebody will figure out who's sending the release announcement08:19
Kamioncanonical URL is http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso BTW08:19
lamontKamion: yes, once the meeting is over, I'll work with mdz/jdub/whoever and make it happen08:21
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=== sivang_away is now known as sivang
ctalkepdaf, you still here?09:17
ctalkepdaf, so, do i take the files for translation from the debian repository?09:22
dafthat depends on what you want to translate09:23
ctalkepdaf, i was hoping there was someone out there to tell me what should be done,:), but since i'm on my own i don't generally care09:25
ctalkepdaf, and i am so impressed with ubuntu, that i wanted to begin with it's translation09:27
dafwell, it's really up to you09:29
daffind something you like using which needs work and work on it09:29
dafhave you already managed to get Ubuntu working in your language?09:29
ctalkephaven't started yet09:31
ctalkepwanted to first get a grip of the situation09:32
ctalkepi guess i'll just start with that09:33
ctalkepthen what about the web site translation?09:33
ctalkepthere are a lot of people here working with linux, yet few of them are comfortable with english09:34
dafweb site translation is not possible at the moment09:34
ctalkepi think it would bea great advantage, since there are only few online sources of information on linux/unix now09:34
dafwe're working on that09:34
ctalkepi see09:34
dafI'll make an announcement as soon as it's ready09:35
dafrunning Ubuntu in your language would be a good start09:35
ctalkepi will begin with that then09:35
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danyto beshe na purvata vuzmojna opcia be10:18
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pittiSo we can now upload our stuff into Hoary? Or shall we wait for the sync first?10:49
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hornbeckis there anyway to find out what was said in the meeting today?11:11
hornbecklike a log or something11:11
mdzpitti: if you have packages to upload which do not interefere with the sync, I think it is fine. elmo can confirm11:13
mdzhornbeck: there will be a transcript and summary posted to the list11:13
mdzhornbeck: if you want something now, I can send you a copy of my scrollback11:13
pittimdz: I already synced some packages (hal and gvm), so it would actually ease the merge11:13
pittihornbeck: I have a copy here11:14
Mitariohmm, I'm wonderwing if it'd be usefull for ubuntu/me if i'd sign up for wannebe maintainer :)11:14
pittihornbeck: http://www.piware.de/ubuntu-meeting-20041025.txt11:14
pittimdz: but if there is already an automated merging process, I can defer uploading11:15
mdzpitti: should be fine, send mail to Keybuk to notify him that you have done it11:16
pittimdz: okay, I will CC elmo as well11:16
elmoeh, I think we should try and sync where possible?11:16
elmorather than do uploads?11:17
hornbeckpitti, mdz: thanks I am reading pitti's copy11:17
pittielmo: I packaged a completely new hal version which just arrived at experimental11:17
pittielmo: I just don't know what is easier: let you finish the automatic merging and upload afterwards, or upload immediately11:17
hornbeckmdz: a bounty for a python port of yelp?11:18
pittielmo: but we changed so many things in hal and gvm that even manual merge was a PITA; I think it isn't possible automatically11:18
elmopitti: what am I saying is, if ubuntu-version will == debian-version, I think we should sync11:19
pittielmo: not really11:19
pittielmo: I took the new Debian version, and redid the Ubuntu modifications as clean patches11:19
pittielmo: same with g-v-m11:20
pittielmo: I will need to upload anyway, but I want to do it at a time when it does not interfere with merging11:20
elmothen go ahead and upload11:22
elmotho the cron jobs are disabled right now11:22
elmoonly 800 or so more packages to sync in universe11:22
pittielmo: okay, if now is a good time11:22
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hornbeckmdz: I would like to do the Ubuntu in a Nutshell, if there are no other takers11:26
jdubhornbeck: that'll be a more-than-one-man project, probably involving some canonical contracts too11:29
hornbeckjdub: I would really like to work on it if I can11:30
hornbeckI really want to put something out that is not just internet based11:30
hornbeckwell I am off to work again11:35
sabdflhornbeck: i like the idea, who is the publisher of the "in a nutshell" series?11:42
tsengoreilly and associates11:42
sabdfltseng: thanks11:43
hornbecksabdfl oreilly11:43
tsengwe could say11:43
tseng"ubuntu in a clamshell" :D11:43
hornbeck"ubuntu in a akorn"11:43
sabdflhornbeck: go ahead and approach them if you like, with my support11:43
hornbecksabdfl: I will try :-)11:43
hornbeckIf I go about this, I don't think I will get much real docs done11:44
tsengthere are several other publishers with an eye towards open source as well11:44
hornbeckbut it will be a major doc in and of itself11:44
tsengif that is the route you are going11:44
hornbeckwell it would be nice to get a Ubuntu Book out there11:44
hornbeckI like books11:44
tsengnewriders, no starch press11:44
=== hornbeck works in a library
hornbeckno starch is through orielly is it not?11:45
tsengthere is some sort of partnership i believe11:45
hornbeckyeah that is what I thought11:45
tsengbut no starch is at least externally its own company11:45
hornbecksabdfl: the nutshell series is more just facts11:46
hornbeckI could approach no starch about doing a "Ubuntu book"11:46
hornbeckor even Oreilly11:46
tsengoreilly is a distributer for no starch11:47
hornbeckwhat do you guys think?11:47
=== tseng cares less about who prints it than the content
tsengbye pitti 11:47
hornbeckwell, lets discuss later I have to be at work in 10 minutes11:47
tsengcontent = #111:47
hornbecksabdfl, tseng: I think I would want to work with all the dev's on this11:48
hornbeckto make it very good11:48
hornbeckbut discussion later11:48
sabdflhornbeck: to get it done for hoary it may be better to start with a tighter format11:48
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Kamionso, I can upload merges to hoary now?11:49
=== Kamion cracks his knuckles
hornbecksabdfl: I will put together a outline and mail to you11:49
elmoyeah, if you want11:50
elmothey won't be built/mirrored out for a bit tho11:50
sabdflhornbeck: i'm already a bottleneck, can you figure this out within the doc team? ping me on irc if you need any specific commitment11:51
hornbecksabdfl: I will work something out and let you guys know11:51
sabdflelmo: if we can avoid mirroring for a while, it might be worthwhile11:51
=== hornbeck is off to work
sabdflmaybe publish hoary somewhere where it can break11:51
sabdflespecially if we are going to be uploading new gcc etc11:52
sabdflonce the toolchain is in, we can rebuild11:52
sabdflor is that toenail-smoking?11:52
Kamionsounds like a plan to me11:52
Kamionor maybe just publish source only11:53
elmoerr, I thought we discussed this?11:55
elmo+in the meeting11:55
elmothis is why, I'd held off on hoary so long, because people keep telling me to do entirely conflicting things with hoary :-/11:56
mdzif we were going to update the toolchain, we should have done that _before_ importing new versions of everything11:57
elmoI can't not mirror hoary, without essentially forking the archive infrastructure.  I can do that, if you want but I need to know now.11:57
elmoThe only other thing we could do is restrict access to the Packages/Sources files but that certainly won't allow us to en-masse rebuild11:58
elmoor option c) we just put hoary out there, which is what I thought was the plan, and what I had started on doing11:58
elmoby "update the toolchain" you mean switch to gcc3.4/4.0 by default?11:59
Kamionthat sounds like bong ...11:59

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