__danielis "bong" something good? :-)12:00
Kamion__daniel: no12:00
Kamionmdz: hoary's seeds are starting out at warty, right? so copying warty->hoary in debootstrap is safe?12:01
mdzKamion: yes12:01
mdzI don't think base has any changes proposed for hoary anyway, does it?12:01
elmothere's nothing on the wiki12:01
KamionI'm sure some will happen :)12:01
elmoactually, yeah, I'm going to propose ethtool, for base, tho I may not succeed12:02
Kamionmdz: at minimum one is necessary: libc6.1/ia6412:02
elmokamion: efi, etc. too12:02
Kamionelmo: d-i can probably install those12:03
elmoah, yeah12:03
elmotho, the world will pull in libc6.1 too :)12:03
elmochrist, even expensive AMD64 servers can't keep time right - I thought it was just cheap shitty motherboards that were the problem12:04
=== Kamion throws debootstrap_0.2.45ubuntu1 hoary's way to see what happens
elmoso, anyone, final call, on options, a), b) or c) above ?12:16
Kamionelmo: (any opinions from me withdrawn, I'd rather it worked)12:16
Kamionis somebody setting up a hoary-changes list?12:17
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=== T-Dinner is now known as T-Bone
=== jdub uploaded to hoary :-)
jdubelmo: who was first? :)12:23
jdubKamion: hrm12:24
jdubKamion: should we have a general -changes list, or a new one for each release?12:24
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elmowon't we eventually be in parallel with two distros?12:25
jdubmdz: benh could really only raise PPC NPTL wrt glibc12:25
jdubelmo: more than two ;)12:25
elmowell, ubuntu distros then :P12:26
elmoI mean, like when hoary is frozen, but grumpy is syncing with sid12:26
jdubsurely updates and embargoed security go to warty-changes too?12:26
elmonot to mention warty-updates uploads, so, yeah I think we should have per-distro lists12:26
elmosecurity uploads go to u-s-a12:27
elmo(err @lists.u.c)12:27
jdubmmm, true, people won't care about warty once we're on perky, but we will12:27
=== jdub goes to create hoary-changes
mdzelmo: it's not just cheap servers; Sun machines are notorious for keeping shitty time12:28
elmowhat's hoary's version number again?12:28
mdzor is it 5.04?12:28
jdubhas to be 5.04 i guess12:29
mdznot as bad as "4.1" for 4.1012:29
jdubhrm, doesn't *have* to be 5.0412:29
mdzno, it doesn't12:30
mdzI just didn't remember what was decided12:30
jdubelmo: do syncs go to hoary-changes?12:31
elmothey, err, will 12:31
elmonot the mass flood i just did tho12:31
elmoand do we want sync notification for universe?  I assume not?12:31
makohornbeck: you around?12:35
makoT-Bone: hey dude12:36
T-Bonehowdy buddy!12:36
lamontmdz: main/universe/multiverse separation all mine, yes.12:36
jdubyo T-Bone 12:37
makoT-Bone: i thought you were off for the day12:37
T-Bonemako: nah, waiting for you ;)12:37
T-Bonejdub: ola!12:37
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T-Bonelamont: btw, any news on the IA64 side?12:37
lamontt-bone: later tonight, I promise12:38
=== lamont goes to get the can of air
T-Bonelamont: ok, that'll be tomorrow then ;)12:38
T-Bonei'll promise to find more time on my side too ;)12:39
T-Bonegot a bit swamped with the end of my scholarship getting closer ;)12:39
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mjg59Is Openoffice on the CDs?12:41
lamontmjg59: it's part of desktop, so yes12:41
makoT-Bone: ok, sent12:53
T-Bonemako: thx _alot_ !12:53
makoT-Bone: np12:54
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mdzsabdfl: has the new wiki announcement gone out yet?  I haven't seen it01:09
sabdflno, i'm waiting for news from stevea about the wikiwikibangbang01:09
sabdflmdz: ^01:10
mdzsabdfl: wikiwikibangbang = moving the old content over?01:10
sabdflyes, automated01:10
=== T-Bone calls it a night, past 1AM, see yall
=== lamont returns, coughing from months of accumulated dust.
elmo_dh_installpam --name ssh # TODO: breaks woody backports01:15
elmo_Unknown option: name01:15
=== elmo_ whines at kamion
mjg59sabdfl: How would you like to move forward with the laptop stuff?01:16
mdzmjg59: feeling any better?01:16
sabdflmjg59: speedily, happily, with a little song?01:16
mjg59mdz: A bit - hot whisky and a large bowl of stew01:16
sabdflhmm.. whiskey and lemon01:16
sabdflmjg59: can you map out for me how you'd like to handle it?01:17
sabdfli'm pretty much open to your lead on it01:17
mjg59sabdfl: Suspend to disk is a matter of me getting the code to do swsusp off initrd together, building some test kernels and letting people go to town01:17
sabdflare there other things that we can do to really make it rock, that parallelise?01:18
mjg59S3 is a bit trickier. The only test hardware I have is the C3 thing, and it's not playing ball yet01:18
sabdflid like to build a volunteer team around you01:18
sabdflyou are welcome to my tosh test laptop for a month or two01:18
mjg59That might well be useful01:18
mjg59It pretty much worked01:18
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mdzmjg59: I got the impression from Herbert that swsusp was ready to go once we got v2 in01:28
mdzmjg59: and that is on his list for hoary already01:28
mjg59v2 of swsusp?01:29
mjg59Really, it's bad crack.01:29
mjg59Pretty, though.01:30
mdzmjg59: I was under the impression that we had no choice01:34
mjg59For which?01:34
mdzmjg59: because earlier versions can't handle, e.g., IDE drivers being loaded as modules01:34
mdzmjg59: mind creating a bugzilla account so I can CC you on this stuff? :-)01:35
mjg59http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.brisset/initrd-swsusp/ for instance01:35
mjg59I'm pretty sure there's more recent versions of this code floating about01:35
mdzif there's a better way, Herbert needs to know about it now01:36
mjg59SuSE certainly won't be shipping swsusp2, given that they've got Pavel01:36
bob2does the swsusp merge in 2.6.9 mean it's supposed to work outside i386 now?01:37
mjg59bob2: Not quite as yet01:37
mjg59Benh had code for PPC. I'm not sure if it's done yet.01:37
bob2most of the ppc effort seems to have been on pmdisk.01:38
mjg59pmdisk and swsusp have been merged now01:38
=== mjg59 waits for his Bugzilla account confirm mail...
__danielsleep tight guys01:38
bob2ah, awesome01:39
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sabdfldaniels: will our x.org have composite?01:59
=== lifeless wishes swsup worked for him
lupus_composite disabled by default I hope :p02:13
lupus_euhm http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fImages shouldn't this be moved to hoary?02:15
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion and support on #ubuntu | Happy Hoary Trail! | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE, long live Hoary
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danielssabdfl: yeah03:52
Clintwhat's the top-s3krit security contact address for ubuntu?04:01
hornbeckmako: you looking for me?04:13
hornbeckwell I will be eating and back in about 3004:15
mdzClint: I'm not sure whether security@ubuntu is set up yet04:20
mdzClint: but mdz@canonical.com works04:20
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hornbeckplovs: ?04:36
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makohornbeck: yeah05:02
makohornbeck: perfect timing05:02
makohornbeck: i wanted to know if there was any summary of the documentation meeting?05:02
aswhornbeck: what do you think about http://www.phptr.com/title/0130327654 It's part of Bruce Perens' Open Source series.  http://www.phptr.com/series/series.asp?ser=33549405:05
aswhornbeck: It would be very cool to have an Ubuntu book in that series.  What do other people think? (I'm replying to your message in ubuntu-doc) 05:06
hornbeckmako: what doc meeting?05:09
hornbeckasw: that loooks pretty good05:10
hornbeckmako: nevermind, I remember now :-)05:10
hornbeckI think so let me check05:11
hornbeckmako: are you on the -devel list?05:11
hornbeckmako: enrico, did a write up of the meeting05:12
hornbeckI can forward to you if you like05:12
makohornbeck: i must have missed it05:13
makoooh.. it was probably sent late05:13
makoalright. it must have not made my 2004-10-15 traffic cutoff05:13
hornbeckyeah, the mail was on the 15th at 2:46pm05:13
aswhornbeck: I'd love to help (in whatever way I can) on any ubuntu book under a libre license.  As usual my interest is "ubuntu for scientists" but scientists just want thing ordinary users want like openoffice/evolution/mozilla also gimp/latex/texmacs 05:15
hornbeckasw: I am thinking more of a beginning type book05:15
makoi found it quite good to build up to a book length piece05:16
aswhornbeck: yeah that's what i figured but surely openoffice/evolution/mozilla are beginner apps? 05:16
hornbeckasw: I have started a outline, and will be posting it to the mailing list when I have that done.  It will hopefully be under a decent license, but this being my first attempt at a book, I think just getting to chapter one will be good for right now05:17
hornbeckasw: I was thinking, 1. Intro to Linux, 2. Installing Ubuntu, 3. The Gnome Desktop, 4. Useful apps, 5. package management, 6. the command line05:18
hornbecksomething along that05:18
hornbeckcommand line before package management05:18
aswhornbeck: sure... I guess licenses are something that people can really fight about after the fact (don't start a company without a share-holder agreement) so it's nice to make sure about it in advance.   Yeah I admin some boxes for my room-mates and I'd love to give them a copy. =^)  Also my parents. 05:19
aswps. My thesis proposal went out today. This time next week this part will be all done.  I'm a little terrified really.  Everybody on that committee is about a billion times smarter than me. 05:20
hornbeckasw: you will do fine05:20
hornbeckasw: I don't know how much to demand right from the get go, considering I have to go through a whole proposal first05:20
aswhornbeck: i was trolling so thanks for indulging me! 05:20
hornbeckno prob05:21
aswhornbeck: if you plan to publish the book I think it's a good idea to have a "target" publisher and then some "alternates"... 05:21
hornbeckasw: My first choice is Oreilly, than I would consider no starch and a few others05:22
aswhornbeck: and I would venture a guess that if you promise to use a libre license from beginning you'll get more help with proof-reading, and maybe some direct contributions of text.  05:22
hornbeckbut Oreilly is the one people look to for good books05:22
hornbeckasw: yeah, I would guess so05:23
aswhornbeck: looks to me that "no starch" is distributed by Oreilly so they might as well be the same company. (That's just from a glance at the web-pages...) 05:29
hornbeckasw: no starch is distributed by oreilly but is not the same company05:33
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hornbeckwell, I am off for the night to watch some ER and shower.  I will be at the CC meeting tomorrow so see you all there05:38
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=== lamont heads to bed
fabbionenight lamont 06:48
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mdzmorning, fabio06:54
fabbionehey mdz06:56
fabbioneis there any more outcome from the meeting that i should be aware of?06:56
fabbionebtw we could have called the new mailing list ubuntu-changes directly ;)06:57
mdzfabbione: not really, I am still processing the notes to update the wiki06:57
mdzfabbione: there was a short discussion about it in this channel between (I think) jdub and elmo06:57
mdzand they decided on hoary-changes06:57
fabbionewe also need to be sure that python is fully installed before X.org06:58
fabbionewe will have to change base-config for that06:58
fabbioneand i will have to pre-depends on it06:59
fabbionedoes a python debconf interface exists?06:59
mdzfabbione: I do not think so07:00
mdzbut it would be simple to write one07:00
fabbioneif it doesn't exist it will kinda difficult for me to switch the scripts07:01
fabbionei don't have the knowledge to write an interface at that level07:01
mdzit may be simpler than you think; look at /usr/share/debconf/confmodule sometime07:02
mdzbut someone else could do it also07:02
mdzdo you need it today?07:02
aswmdz: I'm sasha (I don't remember if I introduced myself previously.) Curious, are you the M. Zimmerman of EFF (staff attorney?)  That just seems odd... 07:02
mdzasw: no07:02
fabbionemdz: no but asap07:02
fabbionepython2.3-configlet - alternative debconf configuration interface: core API07:03
fabbionei don't think it's the same07:03
mdzfabbione: ah, there is one07:03
mdzit's included in the debconf package even07:04
mdzjust import debconf07:04
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skvidal'lo all07:06
skvidala short while back I read in I think an ubuntu or debian developer's blog about potential python-dpkg bindings07:07
skvidalI was wondering if 1. anyone else could remember where I might have read that and 2. if there is any movement in that direction07:07
mdzskvidal: it's not on the schedule for the next 6 months, but that doesn't mean it won't happen07:20
mdzI think wichert akkerman is working on something like that07:20
skvidalmdz: hmm, okay, I'm just kinda curious in the prospect of that07:21
mdzor was07:21
mdzskvidal: I think it depends on having libdpkg, which doesn't itself exist yet07:21
srbaker_grrr.  i need a new job.07:22
skvidalsrbaker_: join the club, we have jackets :)07:22
ajsrbaker_: "<hinthint>" ? :)07:22
srbaker_aj, ?07:22
ajsrbaker_: ...for Canonical HR?07:23
srbaker_aj, just me generally grumbling, but if you know anywhere that's hiring, let me know.07:23
srbaker_aj, i thought canonical was full07:23
aj*shrug*, no idea07:23
srbaker_and besides, if you want debian developers, there are probably 600 that are smarter than me that you haven't hired yet.07:23
srbaker_or they, i don't remember if you're at canonical or not07:24
hornbeck|sleepI need a job to07:24
skvidalmdz: yah I did some searching and found the blog entry I had read before07:28
skvidalmdz: I see what you mean about needing libdpkg first :)07:28
srbaker_oh.  is there planning on being a parisc port of ubuntu, because i have a D-9000 to send to the first person that pays the shipping07:33
mdzsrbaker_: no one has expressed interest as yet07:34
mdzbesides lamont, of course :-)07:34
srbaker_mdz, heh.  well, i have a large d-class here that's taking up room07:34
srbaker_keep it in mind07:34
mdzI am receiving old mail via ubuntu lists07:40
mdzjdub: are you moderating or something?07:40
fabbioneso did i07:40
=== mako raises his hand
makoi moderated07:40
makoi thought it was mostly from the last couple days07:40
makobut devel had some slightly older stuff07:40
makonobody has sent out a reminder for the CC meeting tomorrow, right?07:41
mako(i haven't seen one)07:41
mdzmako: no, good idea07:42
makolooks like we have a full agneda07:44
mdzdo we?07:44
=== mdz hopes it doesn't last quite as long as the hoary kickoff meeting
mdz4 items :-)07:45
fabbionetoo many meetings :(((07:45
makowell, full compared to last one :)07:45
makowhich was empty :)07:45
mdzfabbione: you don't need to attend the CC meeting if you don't want to07:45
makomdz: i didn't get to the kick off summary today.. i did 3 of them and thought it was about enough for the day :)07:46
fabbionemdz: the problem is the time07:46
fabbione16:00 UTC is really bad for me07:46
fabbioneand now it seems to be a standard07:46
mdzthat's because when I asked everyone for times, that was the middle ground07:46
fabbioneyeah and that's ok when there is a meeting once in a while07:47
mdzif you would like to ask everyone again, and find a time which works better for you, we could discuss changing it07:47
fabbionenow we are up to 2 meetings per week every 2 weeks07:47
makofabbione: well, you can pretty safely ignore the CC meetings unless you're bringing up an issue there07:47
fabbione Mentoring new developers07:48
=== mako shrugs
fabbionethat something important :)07:48
makoyeah 07:48
fabbionei didn't put it there07:48
fabbionebut i am kinda a mentor for debian too07:48
makoi suppose there is a pretty high chance you'll have something you're interested on any given agenda07:48
fabbionemako: right07:48
mdzmako: the hoary kickoff summary will be to the CC summary as this month's traffic is to July's traffic07:48
makomdz: i cut out like 600 lines and moved into a linked summary07:49
makothe art summary was larger than the first 3 traffics combined, at least :)07:49
makoWTs, not UTs07:50
makowell, actually, maybe UTs too07:50
makofabbione: well, these conversations can happen before and after the meetings07:50
makofabbione: i guess we don't really have a procedure for participating in a meeting before a meeting short of making notes or adding thigns to the wiki07:51
makobut i think that's a nice thought since clearly we've got people in places for which that time is convinient07:51
makoand peoples in places where it's fine but their schedules don't fit :)07:51
fabbionemako: yes i know that07:52
fabbionei guess i will have to deal with it07:52
skvidalmdz: thanks for the info, have a nice night07:52
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fabbioneand deal with my gf bitching07:52
makofabbione: :-/07:52
fabbionewell.. i am used to people bitching about X...07:54
fabbionei can handle my gf07:54
makohave people called ubuntu-people 'ubuntites' yet?07:57
lifelessubuntean ?07:57
makobecause if not, i'd like to coin that phrase07:57
makolifeless: ubunteans is nice too07:57
makothe ubuntish07:58
makoubuntush would be nice if it didn't have "tush" on the end07:58
lifelesshaha, you said 'tush'07:59
makoimho, ubuntites wins07:59
makocoming to a record store near you: Mark Shuttleworth and the Ubuntettes!08:00
aswthis ubuntite should go to sleep.  Gnite mako! 08:02
pascthe tutus?08:02
makoasw: i'm joining you.. (in sleep, not in person)08:02
=== asw laughs
makoasw: the doc meeting stuff was great08:03
makoasw: i read through the log today.. awesome stuff, good ideas08:03
=== mako goes to sleep
aswmako: yeah I just submitted my PHD thesis proposal today (i'm nervous as hell) but by next week I should have a year to work on free software projects as time permits. 08:04
makoasw: what dept?08:04
makoasw: school?08:04
aswbiophysics (harvard) but its a cs-physics-biology project.  See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/coreworld-announce08:05
makoasw: ah, you're in cambridge, cool! we should have coffee at cafe algiers next time i come up :)08:06
makoorganize a boston ubuntu meeting :)08:06
aswnext announcement after the committee meeting next week.  I've read a few of your pages.  Actually Gerry Sussman wanted me to talk to SPI folks about an idea I have. I very very briefly talked about it with Mark (sbdfl) already.08:06
aswyes. I'd love that. (re algiers) 08:07
aswactually are you in washington?08:07
makoasw: i'm in new york now but lived in boston a few years ago08:07
makolived in seattle and italy and western mass (amherst) in between 08:07
aswoh. in that case maybe sooner... I'll be in new york fairly soon.  08:07
makoasw: http://mako.yukidoke.org/contact.html08:08
makoasw: let me know when you're coming down.. give me some advance warning and i can get you a place to crash probably :)08:08
aswGoogling people doesn't work.  (I swear I saw what looked like a current page that said you live near Seattle.) 08:09
makoasw: i moved like 3 weeks ago :)08:09
makoasw: didn't have to be that out of date08:09
makoasw: but yeah, we can talk spi stuff too. i'm here and our lawyer is too08:10
mako(who is a debian maintainer now as of last week)08:10
aswmako: careful I might take you up on that.  (re crash space.)   The last time I stayed in NYC I found a dorm style room with a bunch of underwear models at the Gershwin hotel.  I think I debated Creationism versus darwinian evolution with a girl who ended up bunking with the fifteen year old.  Ah well. =^)08:10
vorlonhum?  Greg is a maintainer now?08:11
makovorlon: yeah, took over xkbsel08:11
makovorlon: and is getting ready to an upload of an new package of galax (xml query language)08:12
makogreg is a real hacker.. reads his email in nmh and write his printed documents in troff08:13
aswmako, vorlon: until tomorrow!  mako one last question.  Do you know Brad Fitz (in person)? 08:14
makoasw: not yet i don't believe08:15
makoasw: yeah, let me know. we have lots of guests :)08:16
jduboh man08:16
jdubmeeting tonight too08:16
jdubeeeeeuuuggh ;)08:16
makojdub: tuns of meetings08:16
aswmako: thanks. I'll definitely take you up on it... Re docs. I'm going to suggest we look at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/debian/chapter/book/index.html that's what I'd like to see for Ubuntu. (Maybe a different license but personally, I'd really like to keep the GNU in the title.) 08:18
makoasw: me too :) 08:18
aswreally? (is that re. keeping "GNU" in the title?) 08:19
makoyep :)08:19
makoall of it actually08:20
plovs_workany of the zwiki people awake?08:23
srbaker_okay, one thing i don't understand about arch is why do they like to have such weird names for directories?  it's really imposing08:27
jdub^ sweet08:30
aswsrbaker_ : it's taken me a really long time to get used to the idea of "small clean changesets" and I'm still not sure I'm used to it.  the other parts of arch are ultimately less of an issue imho than wrapping your head around the idea of a growing "frontier" of releases at each arch archive rather than a central repository.08:36
srbakerasw, bah, all of that stuff i can get used to.  the long path names drive me fucking batty08:38
srbakeresp. when it makes my prompt three lines long08:38
ajsrbaker: yay darcs! :)08:38
srbakeraj, heh, i really like darcs.08:38
srbakerbut i've been using monotone08:38
srbakeri think i'm going to be using darcs on my web server for the php code i have to maintain (ugh)08:38
srbakerit's mostly drupal modules.08:39
srbakeranyways, bed time.  it's 3:40a here08:39
aswsrbaker: you are probably right. Yeah it's 2:40a here.  08:40
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aswsrbaker: re. Arch "rough spots"... 08:40
pittimdz: Morning! Say, what shall we do with bugs that are fixed in Hoary, but still present in Warty? Bz does not support version tracking, so shall we just close them?08:52
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bigbrother0074anybody think i might have any luck getting a logitech quickcam to work?09:43
pascpitti: last time I asked someone that for debian, I was told the answer was shorter release cycles ;-)09:45
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pittipasc: we have fixed release cycles :-)09:45
pittipasc: our future bug tracking system will be able to track versions, but bugzilla is not09:46
pascpitti: that's why I stuck the smiley face on the end09:46
pittipasc: ah :-)09:46
pascpitti: living in sydney, it's hard to avoid ubuntu devels09:47
pittipasc: It's really amazing that the smallest continent brings the largest share of Canonical employees09:48
pascpitti: ah! but we're the largest island09:48
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tfheenfabbione? 09:52
pittimdz, jdub: Can I upload #2744 (tempfile vulnerability in gs-common)?09:52
=== tfheen waves from Venice
pittitfheen: Hi!09:53
pittitfheen: What's up in Italy?09:53
pittitfheen: ops, that's Austria, right?09:53
fabbionehey tfheen !09:53
tfheenno, Italy09:53
pittitfheen: no, that was Vienna. Damn English city name translations...09:53
pittitfheen: vacation or job?09:54
pittitfheen: nice! I've never been there, but all these canals and the city must be beautiful09:54
tfheenyeah, they are09:55
tfheengoing home today, though09:55
pittisend some photos :-)09:55
tfheennah, it will be nice to get home.. I am tired now.. hopelessly behind on mail I guess as well09:56
bigbrother0074i'm new to linux...what should i do if i do an apt-get install of a package and it seems to be successful...i don't need to restart, do i?09:57
bigbrother0074i supposedly installed the utils for the logitech's quickcam...but i don't know how to use these utils09:57
pittibigbrother0074: in all but very rare cases (like new kernels) you don't need to reboot09:58
fabbionebigbrother0074: that should be ok, but please take these topic to #ubuntu09:58
pittibigbrother0074: packages should usally "just work"09:58
jdubpitti: approved09:59
pittijdub: thx09:59
bigbrother0074oh, what channel is this?09:59
pittibigbrother0074: this is the development channel, #ubuntu is user09:59
bigbrother0074oh, my bad09:59
fabbionebigbrother0074: no problem :-)09:59
bigbrother0074that would be what devel means10:00
bigbrother0074have a good night (or morning)10:00
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sparkesplovs, was that message CC'd to the list before I reply onlist ;-)10:20
sabdflmorning all10:26
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aswsabdfl: gmorning. My phd thesis proposal went out today. I hold my breath for a week and then ... I'll see, I guess.  10:37
aswI think I've said good-night in various channels for the last five hours.10:39
sparkesasw, is this the ubuntu for scientists thing?10:39
aswsparkes: my phd thesis is the quantum coreworld.  See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/coreworld-announce   One way or another there will be another announcement next week. 10:40
plovs_worksparkes, hi yeah, i suppose so10:41
aswbut my interest in Ubuntu is a little broader in scope.  I must say this project makes me very happy.  (Or at least everyone I've met/chatted with associated with the project.)10:41
sparkesplovs_work, I replied off list, you can CC the list if you want10:44
=== sparkes wouldn't say it if it wasn't for public consumtion
plovs_worksparkes, ok, i am still getting used to gmail, it's hard to see what goes where, it is all nicely grouped10:45
sparkesplovs_work, np10:46
sabdflasw: good luck with the thesis!10:48
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aswsabdfl: you are going to help me with it.  The Quantum Coreworld should be a standard part of Ubuntu (this is only half a joke.)  but this time I really am going to sleep.  I've heard from a few people about the "warthog" meetings?  When/where is the next one? 10:52
sabdflnext one is in barcelona, visitors welcome10:53
sabdflmid december10:53
aswpossible. 10:54
aswexact dates? 10:54
pittisabdfl: oh, the city is now determined, too? Nice10:54
sabdfldecember 5 to 1810:54
asw[I'm too tired to be polite, I'm sorry.]  10:54
aswWoah that's a long time... 10:55
sabdflyes it's more of a workshop / sprint than a conference10:55
sabdfltwo weeks of intense hacking10:55
sabdflguests usually only come for two or three days10:55
aswif I could convince my boss it was essential to my project I could probably get funding (not to mention the permission to go...) I'll email you ... now ...10:57
pittijdub, mdz: again, permission to upload #2745?10:58
fabbionepitti: i am afraid it will have to go trough the warty-proposed updates procedure11:05
fabbioneah no11:05
pittifabbione: what do you mean?11:05
fabbionewrong bug sorry11:05
pittifabbione: oh, okay. I already uploaded several security updates this way... you scared me a bit :-)11:05
pittijdub, mdz: I used version number -2ubuntu0.1 (previous one was just -2); is that okay?11:07
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KinnisonHey guys :-)11:45
KinnisonI just thought I'd share the notes from my father's Ubuntu install at the weekend if you're interested.11:45
fabbioneKinnison: :-)11:49
Kinnisonfabbione: my dad was very impressed with the "zero questions and the display ended up just how I wanted it" X configuration :-)11:51
=== Kinnison chalks another one up in fabbione and daniels' b33r columns for spain
robtaylorhey all.. i've just been playing with building the ubuntu livecd...12:01
robtaylorKinnison: fabbione: hey! long time no see :)12:02
KinnisonHey rob12:03
robtaylori've just been testing out removable media stuff - who's most upto date on that?12:04
KinnisonNot me :-)12:05
=== Kinnison just popped in to let everyone have that URL
=== Kinnison waves
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pittirobtaylor: I'm kind of responsible for handling removable stuff12:09
pittirobtaylor: but for me it does not work with the live cd12:09
robtaylorpitti: oh cool :)12:09
robtaylorpitti: ah. well 1st off its a fdifferent kernel, isnt it?12:10
=== robtaylor notes that /proc/version tell me it was built by alextreme
pittirobtaylor: yes, IIRC the live CD uses 2.6.7, install uses
pittirobtaylor: does the hotplug stuff work for you?12:10
robtaylorpitti: ok, and are there many ubuntu-specific patches?12:11
pittirobtaylor: a shipload12:11
robtaylorpitti: usb keys are recognised, but onlu work if partioned12:11
robtaylorpitti: pcmcia drives dont get picked up12:11
pittirobtaylor: hmm, at least something :-)12:11
pittirobtaylor: does it work in an installed version?12:11
robtaylorpitti: and even strangely, my ext3-formatted pccard drive was mounted vfat!12:12
robtaylorpitti: unfortuanltly i dont have a machine i can install ubuntu on to test that :/12:12
pittirobtaylor: really? that should not work, the kernel should reject that...12:12
pittirobtaylor: sure that it is ext3?12:12
pittirobtaylor: the kernel cannot mount an ext3 drive as vfat12:12
robtaylorpitti: yep, mount -t ext3 workd12:12
pittirobtaylor: and mount -t vfat works as well?12:13
robtaylorbut unforced mount mounts it as vfat.. very very broken12:13
robtaylorhavn't tried mount -t vfat12:13
pittirobtaylor: can you please summarize that in a bug report? and give all infos you have about this?12:13
robtaylorpitti: sure, where's the bug database?12:14
pittirobtaylor: I currently have 5 security bugs to deal with, not really time for hotplug stuff now...12:14
robtaylorpitti: i can work on this myself, btw12:14
pittirobtaylor: bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org12:14
pittirobtaylor: thanks!12:14
robtaylorpitti: i guess i'll start witch makeing sure the kernels are as similar as possible..12:14
pittirobtaylor: neither of these errors should depend on the particular kernel versin12:15
pittirobtaylor: version, even12:15
robtaylorwell the vfat thing is definitly kernel-bound12:15
pittirobtaylor: it is12:15
pittirobtaylor: of course it is possible that this bug was fixed in 2.6.812:15
pittirobtaylor: I've never tried that :-)12:15
robtaylorbut yeah the other two are user space12:16
robtaylorwhat do you use to manage user-space mounting?12:16
pittirobtaylor: pmount12:17
pittirobtaylor: pmount allows normal users to mount drives which are not in fstab12:17
robtaylorand what manages the appearance of drives in the 'Disks' window?12:17
pittirobtaylor: hal is the database which knows about hotpluggable devices12:17
pittirobtaylor: and gnome-volume-manager connects these two: receives hotplug events from hal, calls pmount to mount12:17
robtaylorright, sounds sane12:18
pittirobtaylor: nautilus is responsible for actually showing the drive icons and windows12:18
pittirobtaylor: the advantage is that only the relatively small pmount program needs to run as root12:18
pittirabidbt: and only for a short time (as opposed to the g-v-m and hal daemons)12:18
robtaylorhanfg on, but on my test, sda1 was only attempetd to be mounted when i clicked on it in the Disks window...12:19
robtaylorso gvm is doing something to make it appear for nautilus, but isnt actually mounting it12:21
pittirobtaylor: it really was not mounted?12:27
pittirobtaylor: if it appears in the discs window, it should be mounted12:27
robtaylorpitti: hmm12:27
pittirobtaylor: may it be possible that just no nautilus window popped up?12:27
robtaylorpitti: sda1 appears in the Disks window when i insert an unpartioned usb key12:27
pittirobtaylor: this can be configured in Computer -> Desktop settings -> removable devices12:27
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pittirobtaylor: can you check with 'mount' if it is mounted?12:27
robtaylorpitti: sda1 doesnt exist12:28
pittirobtaylor: ugh, that's ugly12:28
pittirobtaylor: so actually there is only /dev/sda12:28
robtayloryeah. 12:28
pittirobtaylor: dpkg -s hal12:28
robtaylorhnag on12:28
pittirobtaylor: this prints hal's version number12:28
pittirobtaylor: I only need the version, not the complete output12:28
robtaylorpitti: i just need to boot it up again :)12:30
pittino hurry...12:30
robtaylorpitti: ok its 0.2.98=1ubuntu912:36
robtaylor0.2.98-1ubuntu9 even12:36
pittirobtaylor: hmm, should be fine12:36
pittirobtaylor: does /dev/sda1 exist?12:37
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robtaylorpitti: ah. hang on the problematic usb key is a bootable one made with syslinux - hence its unpartioned12:42
robtaylorwhen i insert it i still see an sda1 in my Disks window, but mount /dev/sda1 gives invalid block device12:43
robtaylorand mount /dev/sda works finw12:43
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pittirobtaylor: hmm, that's probably a difficult memory stick...12:43
pittiHi carlos!12:44
robtaylorhi carlos !12:44
carlosrobtaylor: hey!!, are you moving to ubuntu?12:44
robtaylorpitti: yeah. i could do with getting this working tho .. what can i use to see what hal's doing?12:45
pittirobtaylor: lshal is a nice text utility, the Device Manager a nice GUI frontend12:45
robtaylorcarlos: well i'm going to be basing a product off the livecd :)12:45
carlosrobtaylor: cool12:45
pittirobtaylor: (in Computer -> System configuration)12:45
robtaylorcarlos: one day we should do our authd =)12:46
carlosrobtaylor: yes, my plan was try it for hoary time, but I'm not sure if that will be possible O:-)12:47
robtaylorcarlos: well i'm back in europe now, so maybe we could meet up in spain sometime and have a couple of days hacking :)12:47
carlosrobtaylor: where are you living now?12:47
robtaylorcarlos: cambridge, uk12:48
carlosohh, that's close12:48
robtaylorcarlos: yep, cheap flight with ryanair =)12:49
rburtonjdub, ping?12:49
carlosalso I my cousin lives there and I was planning to do a trip there in the near future :-)12:49
robtaylorcarlos: brilliant :)12:49
carlosso I will tell you it if I go ther (but I doubt it will be before January12:50
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robtaylorpitti: hmm, curious, this key doesnt appear in the device manager12:50
pittirobtaylor: hmm, but still it appears in "Disks"?12:50
robtaylorcarlos: i was thinking i might pop down to the the canonical meeting in december..12:50
pittirobtaylor: this is really odd12:50
carlosrobtaylor: that could be really good12:50
robtaylorpitti: yep, sda1 is in Disks, hal claims that the only usb devices it knows about are hubs12:51
robtaylorpitti: and the key is definitly plugged in, and manually mountable12:52
pittirobtaylor: I never really dealt with the live CD (just tried whether it boots), but something seems to be _severely_ broken on it12:52
pittirobtaylor: you mean the stick is contained in /etc/fstab?12:52
robtaylorcarlos:yep :) i'll try and save up a spair couple of days holiday :)12:52
robtaylorpitti: no, yes, maybe=).. fstab has /dev/sda1. 12:53
pittirobtaylor: THAT is the error12:53
pittirobtaylor: it shouldn't be there for our tools to work12:53
robtaylorpitti: ahhhhh12:53
pittirobtaylor: of course, if /dev/sda1 is in fstab, you can "mount" it12:54
robtaylorits morphix's auto fstab stuff clashing with your pmount stuff12:54
pittirabidbt: I suppose12:54
pittirobtaylor: I suppose12:54
pittirabidbt: sorry, wrong address, should be robtaylor12:54
robtaylorpitti: nono. when i say i can mount the usbkey i mean uif i sudo mount /dev/sda /mnt/bla it workd12:54
pittirobtaylor: in an installed Ubuntu system, "mount /dev/sda1" will fail since it is not in fstab12:54
robtaylormount /dev/sda1 faile here anyway as that device doesnt exist12:55
pittirobtaylor: does it work with "pmount /dev/sda" (without sudo)?12:55
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sivangMorning all!12:55
robtaylorpitti: what should be in fstab?12:55
pittirobtaylor: so /dev/sda is not in fstab?12:55
pittirobtaylor: actually no usb devices should be in fstab12:55
=== sivang hugs pitti
robtaylorpitti: no, /dev/sda1 is12:55
pittiHi sivang12:55
pittirobtaylor: okay, but this should not interfere with automounting of /dev/sda12:56
pittirobtaylor: it could just be that the partition table of the stick is somehow brokeb12:56
pittirobtaylor: broken12:56
robtaylorpitti: there's quite a lot in fstab, generated by morphix12:57
robtaylorpitti: i tod you, its unpartiond.. partioned keys work fine12:57
pittirobtaylor: hmm, so if "pmount /dev/sda" works, then it's a hal fault12:57
robtaylorpitti: pmount /dev/sda is fine12:57
robtaylorso its hal12:57
robtaylorcan i get any messages out of hal easily?12:57
robtaylor(livecd - no syslog...)12:58
pittirobtaylor: you can12:59
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Mitario_lo everyone12:59
pittirobtaylor: sudo killall hald12:59
pittirobtaylor: unplug your stick01:00
pittirobtaylor: sudo hald --drop-privileges --verbose=yes --daemon=no01:00
pittirobtaylor: then stick your USB thingy and watch the messages01:00
seb128_hi Mitario_01:00
robtaylorpitti: hmm, absolutly nothing01:01
robtaylori thin kthis is a kernel->hotplug issue01:01
pittirobtaylor: but at least you see some messages at hal startup?01:01
robtaylorpitti: yeah, lots at hal startup as it finds everything else01:01
robtaylorpitti: just abosolutly nothing when i insert this key :/01:02
pittirobtaylor: then I think it is a kernel bug01:02
pittirobtaylor: what does 'dmesg | tail' say after plugin?01:02
robtaylorpitti: ok, this is somewhat odd.. 1) two drives (sda ans sdb) are attached01:03
robtaylorpitti: hmm ah, only the 1st time.. hmm01:05
robtaylorpitti: anyway  ldm_validate_privheads(): Cannot find PRIVHEAD 1. unable to read partition table01:06
robtaylorwhich i'd expect =)01:07
pittirobtaylor: can you stick all this into the bug report?01:07
robtaylorpitti: yeah, sure01:07
pittirobtaylor: thanks!01:07
robtaylorpitti: it seems kernel bound too.. i'm going to spend a bit of time building a morphix kernel with from the stock ububtuy kenerl01:09
robtaylorpitti: should i assign the bug to you?01:33
pittirobtaylor: sounds like a kernel bug, please assign it to a linux package01:34
pittirobtaylor: leave the assignee field empty01:34
=== Kamion dives deep into the choose-mirror merge for hoary
=== Kamion whacks fabbione for editing generated files but not editing the source :)
fabbionewhich generated file?01:39
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Kamionfabbione: debian/choose-mirror.templates01:40
Kamion(generated from debian/templates-in)01:40
KamionI've nearly finished the merge now, looking good so far01:41
=== fabbione evily removes the macintosh gb fix from x.org
fabbionebut than.. it's not generated at build time01:41
fabbioneotherwise i would have noticed01:41
Kamionit's generated by make, so will depend on timestamps etc.01:41
Kamionit's possible you disabled the generation as part of the Mirrors.masterlist stuff too, I guess01:42
KamionI only noticed because the set of patch hunks that didn't apply were inconsistent01:42
fabbionei see01:43
fabbionei didn't notice... but anyway it shouldn't be a difficult merge01:43
fabbionei don't remember changing that much into choose-mirror01:43
fabbioneand i also think joeyh did merge some of the proxy detection thingy01:44
fabbioneat least i gave him the code and the patches01:44
Kamionyeah, he did01:44
fabbionenice :-)01:44
Kamionuh, no, he just merged some of the fixes actually01:44
Kamionnot the tcp_syn_retries stuff01:45
fabbionethere was only one real fix about a call to free a string iirc01:45
Kamionthe merge is mostly just painful because of .po files; I'm beginning to learn how to semi-automate that01:45
fabbioneKamion: the tcp_syn_retries thing is still questionable.01:45
fabbionei consider it a hack01:45
fabbionebut without it, the tcp stack takes ages to go in timeout01:46
fabbioneif there is connectivity to archive, but it is let say unstable01:46
fabbionethan the syn won't help at all01:46
Kamionbleh, I do effectively have to re-brand .po files though01:48
KamionI can automate the msgid changes but not the msgstrs01:48
robtaylorlamont: moo01:51
robtaylorlamont: umm, i'm seeing some oddness with the kernel that gets used on the livecd..01:52
robtaylorlamont: and that umount proc problem just went away the second time i built. i managed to analyse the 1st one though, as the cause was /usr/sbin/acpid-c/etc/acpi/events-s/var/run/acpid.socket staying running and holding open a file on proc01:53
robtaylorlamont: quite whty it didnt die the 1st time, but worked the 2nd time is beyone me tho =)01:54
robtaylorlamont: where does the kernel used for livecd boot come from?01:56
lamontwell, morphix derived01:57
lamontdelivered by the morphix dude01:58
robtaylorlamont: should it have all the ubuntu patches installed?01:59
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
lamontrobtaylor: that was a design decision that will be fixed in hoary02:02
lamontwhich is to say, 'no'02:02
lamontis spain 120 or 240V power?02:02
pittiKeybuk: sure?02:03
pittiKeybuk: it's Europe, we should have sane voltages02:03
Keybuk230V 50Hz02:03
Keybukstuck that on the Wiki02:04
fabbionetry to find a picture of the plugs02:04
Keybukfabbione: already done02:04
lamonttwin straight round prongs, I expect...02:05
lamontanyone need a netgear wall-wart?02:05
Keybuksame as Denmark/Italy02:05
thomwhich of the 375 thousand wikis have you added it to?02:05
Keybukthom: canonical02:05
danielsspain is love.02:06
lamontthen again, maybe I'll keep my european-wall-wart for the netgear, and just bring that with me.02:06
robtaylorlamont: what was the reason for that design decision? (i ask as I'm planning on making a kenel with the morphix patches and the ubuntu patches..)02:06
KeybukI still like the World Electric Guide's snide comment about UK power02:06
Keybuk"Although /officially/ 230V ..."02:06
danielsKeybuk: yeah, we're officially 230, but it's often stated as 24002:07
elmoaren't we 240 ?02:07
danielseither is within tolerance02:07
Keybukelmo: mostly 240V02:07
Keybukbut the officialdom says 230 to "be inline with Europe"02:07
jdubrburton: ping02:07
Keybuk240V is in allowed tolerances, so the fact that UK power isn't really 230 isn't *that* important02:07
lamontrobtaylor: livecd uses a funky overlay technique to do some things - patches available for 2.6.7, but not 2.6.8*, being worked on for 2.6.902:07
Keybukthough 250V (which it can spike to) isn't <g>  but we don't talk about that02:07
robtaylorlamont: ahh, umm, stiinky02:08
lamontso liveCD is 2.6.7+morphix patches, install CD is + ubuntu patches.  Hoary will be 2.6.x + morphix/ubuntu patches02:08
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lamontrobtaylor: very Steeeeeenkyyyyyy02:08
robtaylorlamont: mini_fo, i presume :)02:08
lamontthat's the bastard02:08
=== robtaylor strokes chin thoughtfully
jdublamont: so i was wondering02:09
lamontbtw, select on tcp sockets results in a segv from the kernel. :-(02:09
rburtonjdub: pong!02:09
jdublamont: and when i was wondering02:09
jdublamont: i wondered if cachefs could fill the role of morphix's overlay crack02:09
robtaylorlamont: morphix kernel?! gah!02:09
jdubrburton: you on jabber?02:09
rburtonjdub: aye02:09
lamontrobtaylor: and that looks like it's all mini_fo derefing a null pointer..02:09
=== robtaylor shudders
lamontjdub: dunno yet, but we need something more designed and less crackful02:10
robtaylorjdub: the basic idea isnt too crackful, i dont think02:10
jdublamont: i have the sneaking suspicion that cachefs will help here02:11
jdubrburton: (you're not listed as online - did you get those messages?)02:12
rburtonhm, nope02:12
lamontjdub: cool - we'll have to look at that for the merge02:12
robtaylorjdub: is that the same as the solaris cachefs?02:12
rburtonjdub: aha: server connect failed when i try to chat to you02:12
jdubrobtaylor: dunno02:12
robtaylorjdub: (reading  lkml) yep seems like it could do the same job02:14
robtaylorgeneric union mounts are the true solution though02:15
robtaylorwhich is what mini_fo is trying to do... :S02:16
Kamionmsgmerge -C choose-mirror-0.045ubuntu8/debian/po/de.po choose-mirror-1.06/debian/po/de.po choose-mirror-1.06ubuntu1/debian/po/de.po02:23
Kamionthat seems to work not too badly (provided you've already done debconf-updatepo in choose-mirror-1.06ubuntu102:23
Kamionyou need the -C <po-from-warty> otherwise it assumes that all the warty-branded translations are obsolete02:25
hornbeck|sleepoh, people love to take things out of context02:29
=== lamont takes kids to school. bbiab
Kamionhmph, msgmerge seems to have trouble with .po files in different encodings02:34
pittijdub, mdz: can I please get approval for #2745 and #2753?02:45
jdubone sec02:46
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jdubpitti: both approved02:48
pittijdub: thx02:48
pittijdub: is the version number okay?02:48
pittijdub: it's a bit odd, by now we only have an non-approved standard to version security uploads02:48
pittijdub: 0.14.1-2ubuntu0.102:49
azeemthe url to the patches on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/patches is broken02:49
jdubpitti: hrm, seems fine to me, but mdz may have other opinions02:49
azeemon a related matter, 'When Ubuntu developers fix bugs that are also present in external packages - from other distributions or from upstream - we make that patch available on our web site' does not apply to enhancements, only bugs, right?02:50
jdubpitti: more of a q for mdz :)02:50
pittijdub: okay; he must approve the uploads anyway, once they are uploaded to the queue02:50
jdubazeem: should generally be both, but it's been pretty hectic during the release02:50
jdubazeem: a lot of those will fall out during our big merge02:50
jdubazeem: also, some features are just not upstreamable02:50
azeemsure, okie02:51
pittielmo: are uploads to warty-security automatically synced to hoary if hoary's version is lower? If so, I could close the relevant bugs, otherwise I must leave them open02:53
elmopitti: no, they're not02:57
pittielmo: okay thanks. It really gets time for a proper bug tracking system which tracks versions...02:57
robtaylorwhere can i find the ubuntu kernel patches?02:59
robtayloris anyone working on 2.6.9 yet?02:59
KamionKeybuk: merged debootstrap and choose-mirror, you can take those off your list03:12
KamionKeybuk: am I OK to go through and start merging d-i packages with .po file updates? I think I've got the hang of doing that now03:12
KamionI'm trying to gradually automate as I grow to understand it03:16
Keybukas you understand how to automate, let me know :)03:16
KeybukChangeLog I'm doing by basically stripping the context and turning them into 0,0 +1,x patches (stick this at the top)03:16
fabbioneseb128: you around?03:17
fabbioneseb128: see #d-d03:18
fabbioneseb128: thanks :-)03:18
Kamiondebian/po/ is roughly: merge everything else; debconf-updatepo; copy warty, debian, hoary (so far) to separate directories; for each .po file in hoary do msgmerge -C warty/$x.po debian/$x.po hoary/$x.po > new/$x.po; fiddle about lots with corner cases03:19
Kamionit's better than rebranding from scratch :)03:19
Keybukoh yes03:20
Keybukwhat's the debconf-updatedo bit do?03:20
Kamionupdates debian/po/templates.pot with new source references and then updates debian/po/*.po with new source references, fuzzy markers, etc.03:21
Kamionit confuses msgmerge much less if you do this first03:22
=== daniels stares at #2759.
Kamiondebconf-updatepo is a command to run frequently on anything with debian/po/03:22
robtayloranyone.. whats the name of the kernel image in ubuntu? act-cache show kernel-source-2.6.8 just gives me debian sources... ~(i have warty main pinned at 1 ;))03:24
seb128uploads to hoary are open ?03:24
Kamionrobtaylor: linux-source-
robtaylorKamion: thanks :)03:25
KamionKeybuk: of course, for packages where we haven't changed debian/po/ it's not worth bothering ...03:26
robtaylorlamont: when you get back..  on sunday Oliver released mini_fo patches for kernel>=
KeybukKamion: I guess for ordinary po/ that msgmerge might work too?03:33
Keybukany particular reason you use warty as the compendium?03:33
Keybukand not latest-debian ?03:34
KamionKeybuk: should do03:35
KamionKeybuk: well, the primary source of new translations is latest-debian; warty is a backup03:35
Kamionthe goal is really to get us into sync with the latest translations in d-i, which are going to be superior to whatever we have03:36
KamionI think I've understood def.po and the compendium the right way round03:37
KamionKeybuk: are you going to be doing a mass upload of merges, or what?03:37
KeybukKamion: I think the basic idea is to do the merges as automatic as possible03:38
Keybukfor any that it works, I'll upload03:38
Keybukany left will have a source package and a "lost hunks" patch file alongside03:38
Keybukwhere the source package will be merged as automatic as possible, with anything conflicting to be resolved03:38
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pooh_hi again all03:49
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sivangoops, changed nicks03:49
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lucas_Kamion: when you generate CDs using debian-cd, are you using build.sh or build_all.sh ?04:13
lamontrobtaylor: cool04:21
robtaylorlamont: i'm looking at building a morphix kernel... though its not obvious what should go in or not..04:22
robtayloranyway, so it'll be based off the warty realease kernel, which hopefully will make some things less broken04:23
lamontyeah - no clues here either, but there is a source drop on www.morphix.org/debian04:23
robtaylor(though not the device node/pipe/ problems)04:24
robtaylorlamont: good point, that'd be a good place top start04:24
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pittimdz, jdub: can one of you please approve #2743?04:45
Keybuk- Skipping control-center (warty > debian)04:48
Keybuk... that's a bit better <g>04:48
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Kamionlucas_: build.sh as it happens, but you can use either04:57
Kamionlucas_: (as long as you change build_sll.sh to have the right list of architectures)04:57
Keybukheh, a few packages are bogus errors ... we actually reverted to debian04:58
=== Keybuk adds a "if warty_s.version < base_s.version: continue"
rburtonjdub: there?05:03
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=== lamont pitys anyone foolish enough to have changed sources.list to point to hoary this early
rburtonwhat broke so quickly?05:38
lamontrburton: we sync'ed all the unmodified packages from sid, and they're building now.05:40
rburtonoh fun05:40
lamontwhich basically means that large parts of things will quite likely be uninstallable, etc.05:41
lamontbecause none of the need-to-be-merged packages are included in that...05:41
lamontrburton: the key thing to remember is that hoary will be _REALLY_ unstable/broken for a while.05:43
=== Kamion flies blind trying to merge main-menu
Kamionpretty much no possible way to test these changes until they've all been made05:44
elmoKamion: sorry, just to confirm, I can trash everything but latest installer-$arch and daily-installer-* ?05:44
elmo[I asked that earlier, right before a netsplit, if you already answered, I missed it, sorry] 05:44
Kamionelmo: didn't see it, but yes, and you can trash daily-installer-* in warty if that's still possible05:45
Kamion(or advisable)05:45
elmok, th05:48
Kamionthom: I was resisting manfully05:51
thomi couldn't help myself05:51
thomarrgh. i really struggle to type "myself". if i'm not concentrating my fingers go for "mysql"05:51
thomdamn sys admin jobs anyway05:52
KamionKeybuk: more fun; if the encoding of a .po file has changed then you have to iconv the one from warty before running msgmerge05:55
KeybukKamion: I think we should make daf write some python to deal with this for us :o)05:55
Keybuk"here's three po files, make me a fourth"05:55
dafif the PO files declare their encodings properly, it probably would be fairly easy to automate05:56
Kamionthey pretty much always do in d-i at least; too much stuff breaks obviously if the encoding is wrong05:57
robtaylorKamion: just looking over hoary goals... whats 'kickstart' ?05:57
sivangrobtaylor : a system that manages mass installs05:58
sivangrobtaylor : or allows for05:58
thomthe redhat automated install system05:58
=== sid77 bye
KamionKeybuk: P.S. it'd be nice to have it flagged somehow when the msgstr upon which a branded msgstr is based changes ...06:12
KamionKeybuk: unfortunately I don't think there's enough metadata in the .po file for that :-(06:12
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dafKamion: no, the PO format doesn't support that directly06:22
dafKamion: I wonder if we could emulate it but putting data in comments or something and writing a tool that compares them06:22
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pittimdz: Morning! If the meeting is finished and you have some time, can you please approve #2743 (libc6 security bug)? TIA06:54
pittimdz: s/If/When/06:54
mdzpitti: the meeting is not finished yet06:54
mdzpitti: but feel free to join us :-)06:54
pittimdz: I'll do, up to now I was buried in work06:54
fabbionenew X.org build logs are scary06:54
mdzpitti: yes, you inherited a number of bugs during the night :-)06:54
fabbionethey look much worst than xfree8606:54
pittimdz: what happened to Nathaniel BTW?06:54
mdzpitti: nathaniel will not be on the team for Hoary06:54
fabbionemdz: it seems amazing.. compiling the X.org monolitch tree i am getting hundreds of extra warnings i wasn't getting before06:55
mdzfabbione: what kind of warnings?06:56
fabbioneduplicate declarations mostly and function without prototypes06:56
lamontare some of the auto-merges getting uploaded?06:56
fabbioneall stuff i wasn't getting before06:56
fabbione../../exports/include/X11/extensions/xtrapdi.h:86: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype06:57
fabbionestuff like this one06:57
fabbionei did compile libxext and never got this stuff06:57
mdzfabbione: this is the same code organized differently, or different code?06:57
fabbionesame code06:58
fabbionefrom modular (simulated) back to monolitich06:58
fabbione(or how the hell monolitich is spelled)06:58
elmodoes anyone have a machine where snmpd randomly flakes out under even marginal load?07:00
=== lamont feels _helpful_...
fabbionelamont: thanks :-)07:00
elmoI've even tried nicing the stupid thing up07:00
fabbioneelmo: ask Jochen (the maintainer)07:00
fabbionehe is really cool at debugging stuff07:00
fabbionei can guarantee for him :-)07:00
elmofabbione: hmm,k, will do, thanks07:00
fabbioneno problem07:01
=== Keybuk decides that the 50-odd packages for which we never uploaded the original debian version will be funny
Keybuklots of "ignored" in the patch output07:01
Keybukevolution  <base: 1.4.6-3>  <warty: 2.0.2-0ubuntu2>  <debian: 2.0.2-3>07:02
lamontKeybuk: I wonder if that's because we sync'ed, and immediately uploaded ubuntu1...07:06
lamontactually -0ubuntu* means probably not07:06
lamontKeybuk: I think we uploaded evo 2.0 before debian did...07:07
mdzpitti: the masters of the universe discussion is happening; you seem to have some ideas, so it would be great to have your input07:07
mdzelmo: flakes out how?07:07
pittimdz: I'm already reading07:08
mdzpitti: ok :-)07:08
mdzpitti: what time do you need to leave today?07:08
pittimdz: in about 30 minutes07:08
mdzI know you normally leave around this time, but we need to get together and review pending security issues07:08
elmo[26-Oct-2004 10:55:02 ]  Retrieved data for icmp (0): 30740,310,4904,4,0,0,0,25288,544,0,0,0,0,27285,0,1997,0,0,0,0,0,25288,0,0,0,007:08
elmo[26-Oct-2004 10:55:02 ]  Retrieved data for tcp (0): 35117,23001,45,27467107,25816883,8345407:08
elmo[26-Oct-2004 10:55:12*]  No response from "chinstrap" [] .16107:08
elmomdz: i.e. the cricket collector just timesout07:08
pittimdz: I will return about 2100 UTC, will that be enough?07:08
mdzpitti: oh yes, that's fine07:08
elmoit's not everytime, but it's several times a day07:08
pittimdz: of course I can stay here and skip sport another time...07:09
mdzI will be around for another 12+ hours07:09
pittimdz: okay,then I would really like to have some physical training again :-)07:09
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Mitariohi everyone07:16
nasdaq4088hi mitario07:16
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mdzelmo: I have seen that, yes07:25
mdzdunno which bit is doing the sucking in that equation07:25
elmoIM (previous) E, it's a box under heavy load07:28
elmobut it seems to happen even when chinstrap _isn't_ loaded07:28
=== bluefoxicy snickers at the mention of 'chinstrap'
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bluefoxicywhat the heck, are you in every channel or waht07:29
bluefoxicyhow much bandwidth does xchat use over there?07:29
bluefoxicyhow much bandwidth does irssi use over there?07:29
tsengit runs on one of the oftc nodes07:29
tsengso im localhost to a lot of things07:29
bluefoxicyyeah yeah, I bet I could DCC you full .ogm anime collections of .hack//sign and still be dwarfed for BW usage by the sheer volume of text coming down your pipe.07:30
bluefoxicyI was told to discus stuff here, just waiting for the CC meeting to end so that people aren't busy (plus I need to organize my thoughts)07:32
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tsengi think what you want to do should happen in a seperate branch or something07:37
tsengand get merged back in the next cycle07:37
fabbionewe need a newer version of xrender07:41
bluefoxicytseng:  yes07:43
bluefoxicytseng:  I don't expect people to just start hacking on the stable system; getting it working in the lab (a separate branch to be merged is a lab) first is a no brainer.07:44
bluefoxicytseng:  but I do want these things in mainline.07:45
=== bluefoxicy wants to avoid a fork though; we don't need yet another distro floating around, esp. not the 10,000,000th Debian based fork.
tsengdid you even install ubuntu yet?07:46
bluefoxicyon a 1.4 gig partition07:46
thomuh, one of ubuntu's aims is to encourage derivatives07:46
bluefoxicyit looks like someone kicked my hard drive  :)07:46
bluefoxicythom:  The effect I'm aiming at is nuclear; I'm trying to incite revolutionary change across all distributions and even potentially across the entire computer industry.07:47
bluefoxicyeverything starts somewher.07:47
elmocrap, we need to do the gnutls11 migration for hoary07:52
bluefoxicytseng:  i need a filesystem that can compress individual files transparantly07:53
bluefoxicyI have 1.4G but ubuntu-desktop wants 1.807:53
mdzbluefoxicy: you don't need a compressed filesystem, but rather a larger partition :-)07:53
thomare we going to ignore the gcc3.4/4.0 transition too? :-)07:53
elmothom: there hasn't been one in sid?07:53
bob2bluefoxicy: boot with the archive-copier disabled and you can install with 1.4GB07:53
bluefoxicybob2:  what's final space usage07:54
mdzelmo: that's the list of stuff that Keybuk said would be done by this afternoon, right?07:54
thomsorry, that's what i mean. how are we going to deal with gcc3.4?07:54
doogiedoes ubuntu do their own security, or do they reuse debian security releases?07:54
bluefoxicybob2: and would it be possible to download/install/wipe cycle one at a time?07:54
thomleave it in 3.3 abi mode?07:54
bob2bluefoxicy: ~1.4GB or so for the final install07:54
thomdoogie: our own07:54
bob2bluefoxicy: install one paclage at a time? no.07:55
bluefoxicybob2: actually, I can use a tmpfs to store the archives on too (I do that to build crap)07:55
elmomdz: indeed... IIRC, he even said, "y'all can beat me senseless if it isn't"07:55
elmotho maybe I made that up07:55
bluefoxicybob2:  it needs to be <1.4G07:55
bluefoxicy/dev/hda3             1.4G  881M  514M  64% 07:55
bluefoxicybob2:  where do archives get downloaded to by apt07:59
bluefoxicyI would like to mount a tmpfs there.07:59
bob2bluefoxicy: /var/cache/apt/archives/07:59
bluefoxicyhmm.  Apt will bitch if partial/ isn't in there (no, it won't make it itself, sarge gave me that problem)08:00
Kamionyes, that's kind of annoying08:01
bluefoxicyit should be fix so that a ram based filesystem can be mounted there; I usually have 2G swap and mount 2G tmpfs (I have 768M ram)08:01
bluefoxicywtf, do I speak english or not08:01
Kamiondon't see why you couldn't mount a ramdisk there provided you did mkdir partial in the script that mounts it08:03
Kamionseems fairly trivial08:03
bluefoxicyexcept that you can't make scripts in fstab :)08:03
Kamionplenty of options08:04
bluefoxicy -o `/sbin/mount_tmpfs`08:04
bluefoxicyyou could hack up a script to do that :P08:04
lamontmdz: you want ftbfs bugs for hoary build failures yet, or wait until we get more of it there?08:05
mdzlamont: if the package is up to date (synched or merged), a bug should be filed08:06
bluefoxicyNeed to get 230MB of archives.08:09
bluefoxicyAfter unpacking 679MB of additional disk space will be used.08:09
bluefoxicydoes the 679 include the archives?08:09
Kamiondon't think so08:09
Kamioncould be wrong, but I don't think so. check the apt source if you want to be sure08:09
thompretty sure it doesn't08:14
lamontmdz: was more of a priority question.08:14
=== lamont needs to spend some time on the ogre buildd model... (Ogre's are like onions...)
tsengmmm, layers08:18
=== lamont thought donkey had some better reasons, though..
amulamont: ? 08:23
lamontamu: Shrek references08:24
amuhehe i didnt saw it 08:25
lamontamu: specifically, the current ubuntu buildd infrastructure has the neat little bug that main packages are sometimes built with universe packages satisfying the build-depends, instead of main packages.08:25
lamontamu: Shrek (an ogre) waxes philosophical about onions and their similarities to ogres at one point08:25
amulamont: local or home editon ? 08:26
lamontamu: we're talking buildd here, not liveCD08:26
lamontpackages in the repo08:26
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elmomdz: do you want me to continue doing seed syncage via you and jeff?08:35
mdzelmo: yes08:36
bluefoxicy/dev/hda3             1.4G  1.3G  127M  91% /mnt/ubuntu  :D08:39
Keybukelmo: can you install dpkg-dev on rookery?08:51
Keybukthanks dude08:53
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Keybuk* Considering acpid09:05
Keybuk* Building acpid_1.0.3-21ubuntu1.dsc09:05
Keybukthat seems to be working then09:05
KeybukStargate and dinner time, me thinks09:05
=== lamont goes to lunch, finally
mdzKeyserSoze: HEY09:10
mdzthat was meant for keybuk09:10
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Kamionelmo: what's the procedure in cases where all the Ubuntu changes have been merged into Debian, so we just need to throw away our changes and resync?09:47
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margaKamion: I was just looking at the Installer Team page and you are the only one listed there... Are you working alone on ubuntu installer or are the others just not listed?09:51
Kamionmarga: mostly alone right now, occasional help from some of the other core team guys like Fabio09:54
Kamionmarga: although of course so much of it comes from d-i that it's not a total disaster that way :-)09:56
margaKamion: yeah, I guess... :)09:57
Kamionbut all the same more hackers to distribute bugs among would be a good thing09:57
hornbeckmako: you around?10:01
makohornbeck: yes, a little distracted right now.. finishing lunch, give me a couple minutes10:16
mjg59PXEBooting the craptop reveals it has a GUID of 22222222-2222-2222-2222-2222222222210:29
elmoKamion: just let me know10:29
Kamionelmo: mail to @canonical.com?10:29
elmoKamion: yeah, why not10:30
plovshornbeck, the wiki has been moved10:30
plovshornbeck, but is still beta10:30
doogieer, it has?10:30
doogieI thought ubuntu was supposed to be more stable.10:30
doogiebut you guys have moved the wiki.10:31
=== doogie hides
danielswhat is it with insecure tempfile creation every other day?10:31
=== plovs kicks doogie anyway :)
=== hornbeck is out for a few
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aswmako: drop me a line re NYC... 10:37
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azeemsabdfl: I heard you're delivering a speech tomorrow in Frankfurt?10:53
sabdflazeem: yes, keynote "taking linux to the desktop"10:55
sabdflany suggestions on the topic?10:55
amuLinuxDesktops in Governments ;)  10:56
tsengerotica and productivity10:57
azeemsabdfl: something involving 'pants off', but I'm not sure about details10:57
azeemsabdfl: it's at 11:30, right? I'll need to getup early then :-/10:58
sabdfltseng: you just helped me make my mind up about the desktop i'll be showing :-)11:02
bluefoxicywhy do I suddenly think of half my friends, who all have catgirls on their desktop wallpapers, with either barely anything or just the right angle to prevent exposure11:03
=== bluefoxicy has a nekkid catboi for his background, but his leg's in the way :o cute though.
tsengwe were thinking along the lines of soft porn for straight folks11:04
bluefoxicywasn't the recent theme centered around some naked guy11:04
tsengbut i guess its your desktop11:04
bluefoxicyUbuntu Linux:  Bodies are Beautiful11:04
tsengwell, a guy with his top off is less suggestive than a chick with her top iff11:04
bluefoxicyYeah, he was cute though11:05
tsenger, look at him smiling on the splash screen, he looks silly11:05
bluefoxicyyeah, but cute11:05
tsengi cant say what he looks like on the gdm theme11:06
tsengbecause all us straight guys get sucked in the the "NIPPLES OF DOOM"11:06
tsengon the blonde chick11:06
bluefoxicyI didn't even notice nipples11:06
bluefoxicywhat are they poking through her top or something?11:06
tsengthey are sticking out11:06
tsenghey im off to work11:06
bluefoxicythat'd be kinda bad PR11:07
bluefoxicyUbuntu Linux:  Next release, softcore penguin porn11:07
bluefoxicy. . . omg hello.jpg XD11:07
amusooo my buildenv looks fine, at least i got a fat ISO ;) *burning*   11:08
pittimdz: Hi, I'm back. Have you got a minute?11:08
mdzpitti: yes11:15
mdzmy network was hosed, but I've just fixed it11:15
pittimdz: can you please approve #2743?11:15
pittimdz: in addition, I wanted to ask you whether I should prepare some USNs and which list to send them to11:16
mdzpitti: yes, you should11:16
mdzpitti: use the format that I used for the first two11:16
mdzsend them to ubuntu-security-announce, Bcc'd to bugtraq and full-disclosure11:16
pittimdz: Oh, I need to subscribe to this list11:17
mdzpitti: that would be good, yes :-)11:17
mdzpitti: do you have a login to edit the website?11:17
Kamionmdz: if, hypothetically, I wanted to make a security fix to warty/universe, I take it you want backports there too?11:17
mdzwe also have a security errata section on the website now11:17
mdzKamion: yes11:17
pittimdz: I got a password, never tried it though; should be possible11:17
mdzKamion: my current feeling is that we can be liberal with universe things which FTBFS11:17
mdzand for other things, we should have criteria very similar to main11:18
Kamionfair enough, I'll try to pick out the relevant changeset11:19
Kamionare we sending USNs for universe in the event that we do security updates?11:19
Kamion(this is off the clock - I'm doing the upload to Debian anyway)11:20
elmomdz: we do?11:20
mdzelmo: we do what?11:20
mdzKamion: good question, hadn't thought about it11:21
pittimdz: is there a tool which generates these pacakge lists with md5sums automatically?11:21
elmohave a security errata section11:21
elmo'cos /security/ still seems to go to the silly team page11:21
mdzelmo: it's hidden under 'documentation' at the moment11:22
elmoI think we should do USN's for universe just with the usual "this is not the component you want to use </hand-wave>" disclaimer11:22
mdzpitti: yes11:22
mdzpitti: amber generates them11:22
elmothat is.. well hidden :)11:23
pittimdz: hmm, can I download it from somewhere? 11:23
elmommph, we don't even have prettified HTML versions :(11:24
mdzelmo: where does amber send that stuff yet?11:25
mdzelmo: cut me some slack, I did it by hand :-)11:25
elmomdz: katie@security.u.c -> team@security.u.c -> you11:25
mdzelmo: by the way, does security@ubuntu.* go to the right place?11:25
elmohmm, no, probably not, I'll fix11:25
mdzelmo: please add pitti to team@11:27
mdzso that he gets the amber mails11:27
pittimdz: ah, this amber stuff comes by mail whenever something is uploaded to *-security?11:28
mdzpitti: no, it comes when amber is run11:28
elmosecurity@canonical too, you think?11:28
elmopitti: amber is what actually releases the security uploads into the archive11:28
mdzelmo: security@canonical.com = your website has been defaced, dude11:28
mdzin which case, I think that's all you :-P11:28
mdzpitti: I need a 10 minute workrave break and then we can go over this stuff11:29
elmo10 minute?? that's workrave on the "slackers'r'us" setting ;-P11:29
pittielmo: nice; since the stuff that I uploaded today is not yet installed, I should get the amber mails now, too, right?11:30
pittimdz: no problem, I'm fixing imagemagick in the meantime11:30
sabdflnight all11:34
elmonight sabdfl11:34
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Kamionmdz: erk, we have putty 0.54 even, and I never noticed :(11:39
Kamionso I'll need to work out two changesets, since both 0.55 and 0.56 were security releases11:39
amumdz: did you got my mail from Indonesia InfoLINUX magazine?11:40
mdzamu: yes11:46
amumdz: to whom i should forward those messages, i got many of them :) 11:47
mdzamu: I am not sure that I understand the question in the email11:48
mdzamu: is it asking whether there will be a gnoppix release in 2005?11:49
amumdz: good question :) i've no idea what they want from me, i ignored such requests in past :) well my short answer would be look to the web, thats probably not such polite, they expect :)   11:52
mdzpitti: are you maintaining a list of pending security issues and their status?11:52
pittimdz: yes11:52
pittimore or less in bz, and in a personal txt file11:53
pittimdz: those bugs who are pending need to be approved by you (currently 2743 and 2769)11:53
pittimdz: the bugs for which I uploaded packages to the security queue are open again with normal priority11:53
mdzpitti: what about the ones I forwarded to you without filing bugs? are any of those still pending?  I don't remember how many there were11:55
elmowhat's the USN-<n>-<n> notation?  advisory number, and version of that advisory num ?11:55
pittimdz: so far that were only xpdf and cups11:55
pittimdz: but these should be settled11:55
Kamionnight all11:55
mdzelmo: yes, same as Debian essentially11:56
mdzKamion: night11:56
pittiNight Kamion11:56
pittimdz: the libpng stuff is also already dealt with11:56
mdzpitti: we should add a security keyword or something to bugzilla11:56
mdzpitti: can you give me a list of bug #s?11:57
amusomeone has a tip with #269711:57
pittimdz: today I processed: 2743, 2744, 2745, 2762, 276911:58
pittimdz: 2771 and 2748 are not yet processed by me11:58
mdzpitti: have you uploaded them to the security queue?11:58
pittimdz: I uploaded 2744, 2745 ad 276211:58
mdzok, leaving 2743 and 276911:59
pittimdz: 2743 and 2769 need to be approved by you11:59
mdzpitti: I am happy for you to upload to the security queue without waiting for approval11:59
mdzpitti: just be careful with the version number11:59
pittimdz: okay, thanks. That eases the process a lot11:59
pittiare the current version numbers okay?11:59
mdzpitti: that way the packages can be built immediately, and we can base review on what is in the security queue12:00
pittii. g. if the last version was -2, the update would be -2ubuntu0.112:00
mdzthere is less potential for error tat way12:00
pittinew: this was a new case today12:00

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