[12:00] <__daniel> is "bong" something good? :-)
[12:00] <Kamion> __daniel: no
[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: hoary's seeds are starting out at warty, right? so copying warty->hoary in debootstrap is safe?
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[12:01] <mdz> I don't think base has any changes proposed for hoary anyway, does it?
[12:01] <elmo> there's nothing on the wiki
[12:01] <Kamion> I'm sure some will happen :)
[12:02] <elmo> actually, yeah, I'm going to propose ethtool, for base, tho I may not succeed
[12:02] <Kamion> mdz: at minimum one is necessary: libc6.1/ia64
[12:02] <elmo> kamion: efi, etc. too
[12:03] <Kamion> elmo: d-i can probably install those
[12:03] <elmo> ah, yeah
[12:03] <elmo> tho, the world will pull in libc6.1 too :)
[12:04] <elmo> christ, even expensive AMD64 servers can't keep time right - I thought it was just cheap shitty motherboards that were the problem
[12:16] <elmo> so, anyone, final call, on options, a), b) or c) above ?
[12:16] <Kamion> elmo: (any opinions from me withdrawn, I'd rather it worked)
[12:17] <Kamion> is somebody setting up a hoary-changes list?
[12:23] <jdub> elmo: who was first? :)
[12:24] <jdub> Kamion: hrm
[12:24] <jdub> Kamion: should we have a general -changes list, or a new one for each release?
[12:25] <elmo> won't we eventually be in parallel with two distros?
[12:25] <jdub> mdz: benh could really only raise PPC NPTL wrt glibc
[12:25] <jdub> elmo: more than two ;)
[12:26] <elmo> well, ubuntu distros then :P
[12:26] <elmo> I mean, like when hoary is frozen, but grumpy is syncing with sid
[12:26] <jdub> surely updates and embargoed security go to warty-changes too?
[12:26] <elmo> not to mention warty-updates uploads, so, yeah I think we should have per-distro lists
[12:27] <elmo> security uploads go to u-s-a
[12:27] <elmo> (err @lists.u.c)
[12:27] <jdub> mmm, true, people won't care about warty once we're on perky, but we will
[12:28] <mdz> elmo: it's not just cheap servers; Sun machines are notorious for keeping shitty time
[12:28] <elmo> what's hoary's version number again?
[12:28] <jdub> 5.4
[12:28] <mdz> or is it 5.04?
[12:29] <jdub> ugh
[12:29] <jdub> has to be 5.04 i guess
[12:29] <mdz> not as bad as "4.1" for 4.10
[12:29] <jdub> hrm, doesn't *have* to be 5.04
[12:30] <mdz> no, it doesn't
[12:30] <mdz> I just didn't remember what was decided
[12:31] <jdub> elmo: do syncs go to hoary-changes?
[12:31] <elmo> they, err, will 
[12:31] <elmo> not the mass flood i just did tho
[12:31] <elmo> and do we want sync notification for universe?  I assume not?
[12:32] <jdub> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/hoary-changes
[12:35] <mako> hornbeck: you around?
[12:36] <lamont> moo
[12:36] <T-Bone> moo
[12:36] <mako> T-Bone: hey dude
[12:36] <T-Bone> howdy buddy!
[12:36] <lamont> mdz: main/universe/multiverse separation all mine, yes.
[12:37] <jdub> yo T-Bone 
[12:37] <mako> T-Bone: i thought you were off for the day
[12:37] <T-Bone> mako: nah, waiting for you ;)
[12:37] <T-Bone> jdub: ola!
[12:37] <T-Bone> lamont: btw, any news on the IA64 side?
[12:38] <lamont> t-bone: later tonight, I promise
[12:38] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, that'll be tomorrow then ;)
[12:38] <lamont> yeah
[12:38] <T-Bone> ok
[12:39] <T-Bone> i'll promise to find more time on my side too ;)
[12:39] <T-Bone> got a bit swamped with the end of my scholarship getting closer ;)
[12:41] <mjg59> Is Openoffice on the CDs?
[12:41] <jdub> yes
[12:41] <lamont> mjg59: it's part of desktop, so yes
[12:53] <mjg59> Rock
[12:53] <mako> T-Bone: ok, sent
[12:53] <T-Bone> mako: thx _alot_ !
[12:54] <mako> T-Bone: np
[01:09] <mdz> sabdfl: has the new wiki announcement gone out yet?  I haven't seen it
[01:09] <sabdfl> no, i'm waiting for news from stevea about the wikiwikibangbang
[01:10] <sabdfl> mdz: ^
[01:10] <mdz> sabdfl: wikiwikibangbang = moving the old content over?
[01:10] <sabdfl> yes, automated
[01:15] <elmo_> dh_installpam --name ssh # TODO: breaks woody backports
[01:15] <elmo_> Unknown option: name
[01:16] <mjg59> sabdfl: How would you like to move forward with the laptop stuff?
[01:16] <mdz> mjg59: feeling any better?
[01:16] <sabdfl> mjg59: speedily, happily, with a little song?
[01:16] <mjg59> mdz: A bit - hot whisky and a large bowl of stew
[01:16] <sabdfl> hmm.. whiskey and lemon
[01:17] <sabdfl> mjg59: can you map out for me how you'd like to handle it?
[01:17] <sabdfl> i'm pretty much open to your lead on it
[01:17] <mjg59> sabdfl: Suspend to disk is a matter of me getting the code to do swsusp off initrd together, building some test kernels and letting people go to town
[01:17] <sabdfl> ok
[01:18] <sabdfl> are there other things that we can do to really make it rock, that parallelise?
[01:18] <mjg59> S3 is a bit trickier. The only test hardware I have is the C3 thing, and it's not playing ball yet
[01:18] <sabdfl> id like to build a volunteer team around you
[01:18] <sabdfl> you are welcome to my tosh test laptop for a month or two
[01:18] <mjg59> That might well be useful
[01:18] <mjg59> It pretty much worked
[01:28] <mdz> mjg59: I got the impression from Herbert that swsusp was ready to go once we got v2 in
[01:28] <mdz> mjg59: and that is on his list for hoary already
[01:29] <mjg59> v2 of swsusp?
[01:29] <mjg59> Eww.
[01:29] <mjg59> Really, it's bad crack.
[01:30] <mjg59> Pretty, though.
[01:34] <mdz> mjg59: I was under the impression that we had no choice
[01:34] <mjg59> For which?
[01:34] <mdz> mjg59: because earlier versions can't handle, e.g., IDE drivers being loaded as modules
[01:35] <mdz> swsusp
[01:35] <mdz> mjg59: mind creating a bugzilla account so I can CC you on this stuff? :-)
[01:35] <mjg59> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.brisset/initrd-swsusp/ for instance
[01:35] <mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2003
[01:35] <mjg59> I'm pretty sure there's more recent versions of this code floating about
[01:36] <mdz> if there's a better way, Herbert needs to know about it now
[01:36] <mjg59> SuSE certainly won't be shipping swsusp2, given that they've got Pavel
[01:37] <bob2> does the swsusp merge in 2.6.9 mean it's supposed to work outside i386 now?
[01:37] <mjg59> bob2: Not quite as yet
[01:37] <mjg59> Benh had code for PPC. I'm not sure if it's done yet.
[01:38] <bob2> most of the ppc effort seems to have been on pmdisk.
[01:38] <mjg59> pmdisk and swsusp have been merged now
[01:38] <__daniel> sleep tight guys
[01:39] <bob2> ah, awesome
[01:59] <sabdfl> daniels: will our x.org have composite?
[02:13] <lupus_> composite disabled by default I hope :p
[02:15] <lupus_> euhm http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fImages shouldn't this be moved to hoary?
[03:52] <daniels> sabdfl: yeah
[04:01] <Clint> what's the top-s3krit security contact address for ubuntu?
[04:13] <hornbeck> mako: you looking for me?
[04:15] <hornbeck> well I will be eating and back in about 30
[04:20] <mdz> Clint: I'm not sure whether security@ubuntu is set up yet
[04:20] <mdz> Clint: but mdz@canonical.com works
[04:36] <hornbeck> back
[04:36] <hornbeck> plovs: ?
[05:02] <mako> hornbeck: yeah
[05:02] <mako> hornbeck: perfect timing
[05:02] <mako> hornbeck: i wanted to know if there was any summary of the documentation meeting?
[05:05] <asw> hornbeck: what do you think about http://www.phptr.com/title/0130327654 It's part of Bruce Perens' Open Source series.  http://www.phptr.com/series/series.asp?ser=335494
[05:06] <asw> hornbeck: It would be very cool to have an Ubuntu book in that series.  What do other people think? (I'm replying to your message in ubuntu-doc) 
[05:09] <hornbeck> mako: what doc meeting?
[05:10] <hornbeck> asw: that loooks pretty good
[05:10] <hornbeck> mako: nevermind, I remember now :-)
[05:11] <hornbeck> I think so let me check
[05:11] <hornbeck> mako: are you on the -devel list?
[05:12] <hornbeck> mako: enrico, did a write up of the meeting
[05:12] <hornbeck> I can forward to you if you like
[05:13] <mako> hornbeck: i must have missed it
[05:13] <mako> ooh.. it was probably sent late
[05:13] <mako> alright. it must have not made my 2004-10-15 traffic cutoff
[05:13] <hornbeck> yeah, the mail was on the 15th at 2:46pm
[05:15] <asw> hornbeck: I'd love to help (in whatever way I can) on any ubuntu book under a libre license.  As usual my interest is "ubuntu for scientists" but scientists just want thing ordinary users want like openoffice/evolution/mozilla also gimp/latex/texmacs 
[05:15] <hornbeck> asw: I am thinking more of a beginning type book
[05:16] <mako> i found it quite good to build up to a book length piece
[05:16] <asw> hornbeck: yeah that's what i figured but surely openoffice/evolution/mozilla are beginner apps? 
[05:17] <hornbeck> asw: I have started a outline, and will be posting it to the mailing list when I have that done.  It will hopefully be under a decent license, but this being my first attempt at a book, I think just getting to chapter one will be good for right now
[05:18] <hornbeck> asw: I was thinking, 1. Intro to Linux, 2. Installing Ubuntu, 3. The Gnome Desktop, 4. Useful apps, 5. package management, 6. the command line
[05:18] <hornbeck> something along that
[05:18] <hornbeck> command line before package management
[05:19] <asw> hornbeck: sure... I guess licenses are something that people can really fight about after the fact (don't start a company without a share-holder agreement) so it's nice to make sure about it in advance.   Yeah I admin some boxes for my room-mates and I'd love to give them a copy. =^)  Also my parents. 
[05:20] <asw> ps. My thesis proposal went out today. This time next week this part will be all done.  I'm a little terrified really.  Everybody on that committee is about a billion times smarter than me. 
[05:20] <hornbeck> asw: you will do fine
[05:20] <hornbeck> asw: I don't know how much to demand right from the get go, considering I have to go through a whole proposal first
[05:20] <asw> hornbeck: i was trolling so thanks for indulging me! 
[05:21] <hornbeck> no prob
[05:21] <asw> hornbeck: if you plan to publish the book I think it's a good idea to have a "target" publisher and then some "alternates"... 
[05:22] <hornbeck> asw: My first choice is Oreilly, than I would consider no starch and a few others
[05:22] <asw> hornbeck: and I would venture a guess that if you promise to use a libre license from beginning you'll get more help with proof-reading, and maybe some direct contributions of text.  
[05:22] <hornbeck> but Oreilly is the one people look to for good books
[05:23] <hornbeck> asw: yeah, I would guess so
[05:29] <asw> hornbeck: looks to me that "no starch" is distributed by Oreilly so they might as well be the same company. (That's just from a glance at the web-pages...) 
[05:33] <hornbeck> asw: no starch is distributed by oreilly but is not the same company
[05:38] <hornbeck> well, I am off for the night to watch some ER and shower.  I will be at the CC meeting tomorrow so see you all there
[05:39] <asw> gnite!
[06:45] <fabbione> morning
[06:48] <fabbione> night lamont 
[06:54] <mdz> morning, fabio
[06:56] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:56] <fabbione> is there any more outcome from the meeting that i should be aware of?
[06:57] <fabbione> btw we could have called the new mailing list ubuntu-changes directly ;)
[06:57] <mdz> fabbione: not really, I am still processing the notes to update the wiki
[06:57] <fabbione> ok
[06:57] <mdz> fabbione: there was a short discussion about it in this channel between (I think) jdub and elmo
[06:57] <mdz> and they decided on hoary-changes
[06:58] <fabbione> ok
[06:58] <fabbione> we also need to be sure that python is fully installed before X.org
[06:58] <fabbione> we will have to change base-config for that
[06:59] <fabbione> and i will have to pre-depends on it
[06:59] <fabbione> does a python debconf interface exists?
[07:00] <mdz> fabbione: I do not think so
[07:00] <mdz> but it would be simple to write one
[07:01] <fabbione> if it doesn't exist it will kinda difficult for me to switch the scripts
[07:01] <fabbione> i don't have the knowledge to write an interface at that level
[07:02] <mdz> it may be simpler than you think; look at /usr/share/debconf/confmodule sometime
[07:02] <mdz> but someone else could do it also
[07:02] <mdz> do you need it today?
[07:02] <asw> mdz: I'm sasha (I don't remember if I introduced myself previously.) Curious, are you the M. Zimmerman of EFF (staff attorney?)  That just seems odd... 
[07:02] <mdz> asw: no
[07:02] <fabbione> mdz: no but asap
[07:03] <fabbione> python2.3-configlet - alternative debconf configuration interface: core API
[07:03] <fabbione> i don't think it's the same
[07:03] <mdz> fabbione: ah, there is one
[07:04] <mdz> it's included in the debconf package even
[07:04] <mdz> just import debconf
[07:04] <fabbione> ok
[07:06] <skvidal> 'lo all
[07:07] <skvidal> a short while back I read in I think an ubuntu or debian developer's blog about potential python-dpkg bindings
[07:07] <skvidal> I was wondering if 1. anyone else could remember where I might have read that and 2. if there is any movement in that direction
[07:20] <mdz> skvidal: it's not on the schedule for the next 6 months, but that doesn't mean it won't happen
[07:20] <mdz> I think wichert akkerman is working on something like that
[07:21] <skvidal> mdz: hmm, okay, I'm just kinda curious in the prospect of that
[07:21] <mdz> or was
[07:21] <mdz> skvidal: I think it depends on having libdpkg, which doesn't itself exist yet
[07:22] <srbaker_> grrr.  i need a new job.
[07:22] <skvidal> srbaker_: join the club, we have jackets :)
[07:22] <aj> srbaker_: "<hinthint>" ? :)
[07:22] <srbaker_> aj, ?
[07:23] <aj> srbaker_: ...for Canonical HR?
[07:23] <srbaker_> aj, just me generally grumbling, but if you know anywhere that's hiring, let me know.
[07:23] <srbaker_> aj, i thought canonical was full
[07:23] <aj> *shrug*, no idea
[07:23] <srbaker_> and besides, if you want debian developers, there are probably 600 that are smarter than me that you haven't hired yet.
[07:24] <srbaker_> or they, i don't remember if you're at canonical or not
[07:24] <hornbeck|sleep> I need a job to
[07:28] <skvidal> mdz: yah I did some searching and found the blog entry I had read before
[07:28] <skvidal> mdz: I see what you mean about needing libdpkg first :)
[07:33] <srbaker_> oh.  is there planning on being a parisc port of ubuntu, because i have a D-9000 to send to the first person that pays the shipping
[07:34] <mdz> srbaker_: no one has expressed interest as yet
[07:34] <mdz> besides lamont, of course :-)
[07:34] <srbaker_> mdz, heh.  well, i have a large d-class here that's taking up room
[07:34] <srbaker_> keep it in mind
[07:35] <srbaker_> :P
[07:36] <mako> hmm
[07:39] <mdz> hmm
[07:40] <mdz> I am receiving old mail via ubuntu lists
[07:40] <mdz> jdub: are you moderating or something?
[07:40] <fabbione> so did i
[07:40] <mako> i moderated
[07:40] <mako> i thought it was mostly from the last couple days
[07:40] <mako> but devel had some slightly older stuff
[07:41] <mako> nobody has sent out a reminder for the CC meeting tomorrow, right?
[07:41] <mako> (i haven't seen one)
[07:42] <mdz> mako: no, good idea
[07:44] <mako> looks like we have a full agneda
[07:44] <mdz> do we?
[07:45] <mako> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[07:45] <mdz> pshaw
[07:45] <mdz> 4 items :-)
[07:45] <fabbione> too many meetings :(((
[07:45] <mako> well, full compared to last one :)
[07:45] <mako> which was empty :)
[07:45] <mdz> fabbione: you don't need to attend the CC meeting if you don't want to
[07:46] <mako> mdz: i didn't get to the kick off summary today.. i did 3 of them and thought it was about enough for the day :)
[07:46] <fabbione> mdz: the problem is the time
[07:46] <fabbione> 16:00 UTC is really bad for me
[07:46] <fabbione> and now it seems to be a standard
[07:46] <mdz> that's because when I asked everyone for times, that was the middle ground
[07:47] <fabbione> yeah and that's ok when there is a meeting once in a while
[07:47] <mdz> if you would like to ask everyone again, and find a time which works better for you, we could discuss changing it
[07:47] <fabbione> now we are up to 2 meetings per week every 2 weeks
[07:47] <mako> fabbione: well, you can pretty safely ignore the CC meetings unless you're bringing up an issue there
[07:48] <fabbione>  Mentoring new developers
[07:48] <fabbione> that something important :)
[07:48] <mako> yeah 
[07:48] <fabbione> i didn't put it there
[07:48] <fabbione> but i am kinda a mentor for debian too
[07:48] <mako> i suppose there is a pretty high chance you'll have something you're interested on any given agenda
[07:48] <fabbione> mako: right
[07:48] <mdz> mako: the hoary kickoff summary will be to the CC summary as this month's traffic is to July's traffic
[07:49] <mako> mdz: i cut out like 600 lines and moved into a linked summary
[07:49] <mako> the art summary was larger than the first 3 traffics combined, at least :)
[07:50] <mako> WTs, not UTs
[07:50] <mako> well, actually, maybe UTs too
[07:50] <mako> fabbione: well, these conversations can happen before and after the meetings
[07:51] <mako> fabbione: i guess we don't really have a procedure for participating in a meeting before a meeting short of making notes or adding thigns to the wiki
[07:51] <mako> but i think that's a nice thought since clearly we've got people in places for which that time is convinient
[07:51] <mako> and peoples in places where it's fine but their schedules don't fit :)
[07:52] <fabbione> mako: yes i know that
[07:52] <fabbione> i guess i will have to deal with it
[07:52] <skvidal> mdz: thanks for the info, have a nice night
[07:52] <fabbione> and deal with my gf bitching
[07:52] <mako> fabbione: :-/
[07:54] <fabbione> well.. i am used to people bitching about X...
[07:54] <fabbione> i can handle my gf
[07:55] <fabbione> ;)
[07:57] <mako> have people called ubuntu-people 'ubuntites' yet?
[07:57] <lifeless> ubuntean ?
[07:57] <mako> because if not, i'd like to coin that phrase
[07:57] <mako> lifeless: ubunteans is nice too
[07:57] <mako> ubuntonians
[07:57] <mako> ubuntunians
[07:57] <lifeless> redundant
[07:58] <mako> ubunters
[07:58] <pasc> ubuntuses?
[07:58] <mako> the ubuntish
[07:58] <lifeless> ubunts
[07:58] <mako> ubuntush would be nice if it didn't have "tush" on the end
[07:59] <lifeless> haha, you said 'tush'
[07:59] <mako> imho, ubuntites wins
[07:59] <mako> ubuntettes!
[08:00] <mako> coming to a record store near you: Mark Shuttleworth and the Ubuntettes!
[08:02] <asw> this ubuntite should go to sleep.  Gnite mako! 
[08:02] <pasc> the tutus?
[08:02] <pasc> ;-)
[08:02] <mako> asw: i'm joining you.. (in sleep, not in person)
[08:03] <mako> asw: the doc meeting stuff was great
[08:03] <mako> asw: i read through the log today.. awesome stuff, good ideas
[08:04] <asw> mako: yeah I just submitted my PHD thesis proposal today (i'm nervous as hell) but by next week I should have a year to work on free software projects as time permits. 
[08:04] <mako> asw: what dept?
[08:04] <mako> asw: school?
[08:05] <asw> biophysics (harvard) but its a cs-physics-biology project.  See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/coreworld-announce
[08:06] <mako> asw: ah, you're in cambridge, cool! we should have coffee at cafe algiers next time i come up :)
[08:06] <mako> organize a boston ubuntu meeting :)
[08:06] <asw> next announcement after the committee meeting next week.  I've read a few of your pages.  Actually Gerry Sussman wanted me to talk to SPI folks about an idea I have. I very very briefly talked about it with Mark (sbdfl) already.
[08:07] <asw> yes. I'd love that. (re algiers) 
[08:07] <asw> actually are you in washington?
[08:07] <mako> asw: i'm in new york now but lived in boston a few years ago
[08:07] <mako> lived in seattle and italy and western mass (amherst) in between 
[08:07] <asw> oh. in that case maybe sooner... I'll be in new york fairly soon.  
[08:08] <mako> asw: http://mako.yukidoke.org/contact.html
[08:08] <mako> asw: let me know when you're coming down.. give me some advance warning and i can get you a place to crash probably :)
[08:09] <asw> Googling people doesn't work.  (I swear I saw what looked like a current page that said you live near Seattle.) 
[08:09] <mako> asw: i moved like 3 weeks ago :)
[08:09] <mako> asw: didn't have to be that out of date
[08:10] <mako> asw: but yeah, we can talk spi stuff too. i'm here and our lawyer is too
[08:10] <mako> (who is a debian maintainer now as of last week)
[08:10] <asw> mako: careful I might take you up on that.  (re crash space.)   The last time I stayed in NYC I found a dorm style room with a bunch of underwear models at the Gershwin hotel.  I think I debated Creationism versus darwinian evolution with a girl who ended up bunking with the fifteen year old.  Ah well. =^)
[08:11] <vorlon> hum?  Greg is a maintainer now?
[08:11] <mako> vorlon: yeah, took over xkbsel
[08:12] <mako> vorlon: and is getting ready to an upload of an new package of galax (xml query language)
[08:12] <vorlon> nice.
[08:13] <mako> greg is a real hacker.. reads his email in nmh and write his printed documents in troff
[08:14] <asw> mako, vorlon: until tomorrow!  mako one last question.  Do you know Brad Fitz (in person)? 
[08:15] <mako> asw: not yet i don't believe
[08:16] <mako> asw: yeah, let me know. we have lots of guests :)
[08:16] <jdub> oh man
[08:16] <jdub> meeting tonight too
[08:16] <jdub> eeeeeuuuggh ;)
[08:16] <mako> jdub: tuns of meetings
[08:18] <asw> mako: thanks. I'll definitely take you up on it... Re docs. I'm going to suggest we look at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/debian/chapter/book/index.html that's what I'd like to see for Ubuntu. (Maybe a different license but personally, I'd really like to keep the GNU in the title.) 
[08:18] <mako> asw: me too :) 
[08:19] <asw> really? (is that re. keeping "GNU" in the title?) 
[08:19] <mako> yep :)
[08:20] <mako> all of it actually
[08:23] <plovs_work> any of the zwiki people awake?
[08:27] <srbaker_> okay, one thing i don't understand about arch is why do they like to have such weird names for directories?  it's really imposing
[08:30] <jdub> http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/2.0/ReleaseNotes.html
[08:30] <jdub> ^ sweet
[08:36] <asw> srbaker_ : it's taken me a really long time to get used to the idea of "small clean changesets" and I'm still not sure I'm used to it.  the other parts of arch are ultimately less of an issue imho than wrapping your head around the idea of a growing "frontier" of releases at each arch archive rather than a central repository.
[08:38] <srbaker> asw, bah, all of that stuff i can get used to.  the long path names drive me fucking batty
[08:38] <srbaker> esp. when it makes my prompt three lines long
[08:38] <aj> srbaker: yay darcs! :)
[08:38] <srbaker> aj, heh, i really like darcs.
[08:38] <srbaker> but i've been using monotone
[08:38] <srbaker> i think i'm going to be using darcs on my web server for the php code i have to maintain (ugh)
[08:39] <srbaker> it's mostly drupal modules.
[08:39] <srbaker> anyways, bed time.  it's 3:40a here
[08:40] <asw> srbaker: you are probably right. Yeah it's 2:40a here.  
[08:40] <asw> srbaker: re. Arch "rough spots"... 
[08:52] <pitti> mdz: Morning! Say, what shall we do with bugs that are fixed in Hoary, but still present in Warty? Bz does not support version tracking, so shall we just close them?
[09:43] <bigbrother0074> anybody think i might have any luck getting a logitech quickcam to work?
[09:45] <pasc> pitti: last time I asked someone that for debian, I was told the answer was shorter release cycles ;-)
[09:45] <pitti> pasc: we have fixed release cycles :-)
[09:46] <pitti> pasc: our future bug tracking system will be able to track versions, but bugzilla is not
[09:46] <pasc> pitti: that's why I stuck the smiley face on the end
[09:46] <pitti> pasc: ah :-)
[09:47] <pasc> pitti: living in sydney, it's hard to avoid ubuntu devels
[09:48] <pitti> pasc: It's really amazing that the smallest continent brings the largest share of Canonical employees
[09:48] <pasc> pitti: ah! but we're the largest island
[09:48] <pasc> ;-)
[09:52] <tfheen> fabbione? 
[09:52] <pitti> mdz, jdub: Can I upload #2744 (tempfile vulnerability in gs-common)?
[09:53] <pitti> tfheen: Hi!
[09:53] <pitti> tfheen: What's up in Italy?
[09:53] <pitti> tfheen: ops, that's Austria, right?
[09:53] <fabbione> hey tfheen !
[09:53] <tfheen> no, Italy
[09:53] <pitti> tfheen: no, that was Vienna. Damn English city name translations...
[09:54] <pitti> tfheen: vacation or job?
[09:54] <tfheen> vacation
[09:54] <pitti> tfheen: nice! I've never been there, but all these canals and the city must be beautiful
[09:55] <tfheen> yeah, they are
[09:55] <tfheen> going home today, though
[09:55] <pitti> :-(
[09:55] <pitti> send some photos :-)
[09:55] <tfheen> willdo
[09:56] <tfheen> nah, it will be nice to get home.. I am tired now.. hopelessly behind on mail I guess as well
[09:57] <bigbrother0074> i'm new to linux...what should i do if i do an apt-get install of a package and it seems to be successful...i don't need to restart, do i?
[09:57] <bigbrother0074> i supposedly installed the utils for the logitech's quickcam...but i don't know how to use these utils
[09:58] <pitti> bigbrother0074: in all but very rare cases (like new kernels) you don't need to reboot
[09:58] <fabbione> bigbrother0074: that should be ok, but please take these topic to #ubuntu
[09:58] <pitti> bigbrother0074: packages should usally "just work"
[09:59] <jdub> pitti: approved
[09:59] <pitti> jdub: thx
[09:59] <bigbrother0074> oh, what channel is this?
[09:59] <fabbione> #ubuntu-devel
[09:59] <pitti> bigbrother0074: this is the development channel, #ubuntu is user
[09:59] <bigbrother0074> oh, my bad
[09:59] <fabbione> bigbrother0074: no problem :-)
[10:00] <bigbrother0074> that would be what devel means
[10:00] <bigbrother0074> have a good night (or morning)
[10:20] <sparkes> plovs, was that message CC'd to the list before I reply onlist ;-)
[10:26] <sabdfl> morning all
[10:28] <seb128> morning
[10:37] <asw> sabdfl: gmorning. My phd thesis proposal went out today. I hold my breath for a week and then ... I'll see, I guess.  
[10:39] <asw> I think I've said good-night in various channels for the last five hours.
[10:39] <sparkes> asw, is this the ubuntu for scientists thing?
[10:40] <asw> sparkes: my phd thesis is the quantum coreworld.  See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/coreworld-announce   One way or another there will be another announcement next week. 
[10:41] <plovs_work> sparkes, hi yeah, i suppose so
[10:41] <asw> but my interest in Ubuntu is a little broader in scope.  I must say this project makes me very happy.  (Or at least everyone I've met/chatted with associated with the project.)
[10:44] <sparkes> plovs_work, I replied off list, you can CC the list if you want
[10:44] <sparkes> ;-)
[10:45] <plovs_work> sparkes, ok, i am still getting used to gmail, it's hard to see what goes where, it is all nicely grouped
[10:46] <sparkes> plovs_work, np
[10:48] <sabdfl> asw: good luck with the thesis!
[10:52] <asw> sabdfl: you are going to help me with it.  The Quantum Coreworld should be a standard part of Ubuntu (this is only half a joke.)  but this time I really am going to sleep.  I've heard from a few people about the "warthog" meetings?  When/where is the next one? 
[10:53] <sabdfl> next one is in barcelona, visitors welcome
[10:53] <asw> when?
[10:53] <sabdfl> mid december
[10:54] <asw> possible. 
[10:54] <asw> exact dates? 
[10:54] <pitti> sabdfl: oh, the city is now determined, too? Nice
[10:54] <sabdfl> december 5 to 18
[10:54] <asw> [I'm too tired to be polite, I'm sorry.]  
[10:55] <asw> Woah that's a long time... 
[10:55] <sabdfl> yes it's more of a workshop / sprint than a conference
[10:55] <sabdfl> two weeks of intense hacking
[10:55] <sabdfl> guests usually only come for two or three days
[10:57] <asw> if I could convince my boss it was essential to my project I could probably get funding (not to mention the permission to go...) I'll email you ... now ...
[10:58] <pitti> jdub, mdz: again, permission to upload #2745?
[11:05] <fabbione> pitti: i am afraid it will have to go trough the warty-proposed updates procedure
[11:05] <fabbione> ah no
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: what do you mean?
[11:05] <fabbione> wrong bug sorry
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: oh, okay. I already uploaded several security updates this way... you scared me a bit :-)
[11:07] <pitti> jdub, mdz: I used version number -2ubuntu0.1 (previous one was just -2); is that okay?
[11:45] <Kinnison> Hey guys :-)
[11:45] <Kinnison> I just thought I'd share the notes from my father's Ubuntu install at the weekend if you're interested.
[11:45] <Kinnison> http://wiki.digital-scurf.org/UbuntuForElders
[11:49] <fabbione> Kinnison: :-)
[11:51] <Kinnison> fabbione: my dad was very impressed with the "zero questions and the display ended up just how I wanted it" X configuration :-)
[11:52] <fabbione> eheh
[12:01] <robtaylor> hey all.. i've just been playing with building the ubuntu livecd...
[12:02] <robtaylor> Kinnison: fabbione: hey! long time no see :)
[12:03] <Kinnison> Hey rob
[12:04] <robtaylor> i've just been testing out removable media stuff - who's most upto date on that?
[12:05] <Kinnison> Not me :-)
[12:09] <pitti> robtaylor: I'm kind of responsible for handling removable stuff
[12:09] <pitti> robtaylor: but for me it does not work with the live cd
[12:09] <robtaylor> pitti: oh cool :)
[12:10] <robtaylor> pitti: ah. well 1st off its a fdifferent kernel, isnt it?
[12:10] <pitti> robtaylor: yes, IIRC the live CD uses 2.6.7, install uses 2.6.8.1
[12:10] <pitti> robtaylor: does the hotplug stuff work for you?
[12:11] <robtaylor> pitti: ok, and are there many ubuntu-specific patches?
[12:11] <pitti> robtaylor: a shipload
[12:11] <robtaylor> pitti: usb keys are recognised, but onlu work if partioned
[12:11] <robtaylor> pitti: pcmcia drives dont get picked up
[12:11] <pitti> robtaylor: hmm, at least something :-)
[12:11] <pitti> robtaylor: does it work in an installed version?
[12:12] <robtaylor> pitti: and even strangely, my ext3-formatted pccard drive was mounted vfat!
[12:12] <robtaylor> pitti: unfortuanltly i dont have a machine i can install ubuntu on to test that :/
[12:12] <pitti> robtaylor: really? that should not work, the kernel should reject that...
[12:12] <pitti> robtaylor: sure that it is ext3?
[12:12] <pitti> robtaylor: the kernel cannot mount an ext3 drive as vfat
[12:12] <robtaylor> pitti: yep, mount -t ext3 workd
[12:13] <pitti> robtaylor: and mount -t vfat works as well?
[12:13] <robtaylor> but unforced mount mounts it as vfat.. very very broken
[12:13] <robtaylor> havn't tried mount -t vfat
[12:13] <pitti> robtaylor: can you please summarize that in a bug report? and give all infos you have about this?
[12:14] <robtaylor> pitti: sure, where's the bug database?
[12:14] <pitti> robtaylor: I currently have 5 security bugs to deal with, not really time for hotplug stuff now...
[12:14] <robtaylor> pitti: i can work on this myself, btw
[12:14] <pitti> robtaylor: bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org
[12:14] <pitti> robtaylor: thanks!
[12:14] <robtaylor> pitti: i guess i'll start witch makeing sure the kernels are as similar as possible..
[12:15] <pitti> robtaylor: neither of these errors should depend on the particular kernel versin
[12:15] <pitti> robtaylor: version, even
[12:15] <robtaylor> well the vfat thing is definitly kernel-bound
[12:15] <pitti> robtaylor: it is
[12:15] <pitti> robtaylor: of course it is possible that this bug was fixed in 2.6.8
[12:15] <pitti> robtaylor: I've never tried that :-)
[12:16] <robtaylor> but yeah the other two are user space
[12:16] <robtaylor> what do you use to manage user-space mounting?
[12:17] <pitti> robtaylor: pmount
[12:17] <pitti> robtaylor: pmount allows normal users to mount drives which are not in fstab
[12:17] <robtaylor> right
[12:17] <robtaylor> and what manages the appearance of drives in the 'Disks' window?
[12:17] <pitti> robtaylor: hal is the database which knows about hotpluggable devices
[12:17] <pitti> robtaylor: and gnome-volume-manager connects these two: receives hotplug events from hal, calls pmount to mount
[12:18] <robtaylor> right, sounds sane
[12:18] <pitti> robtaylor: nautilus is responsible for actually showing the drive icons and windows
[12:18] <pitti> robtaylor: the advantage is that only the relatively small pmount program needs to run as root
[12:18] <pitti> rabidbt: and only for a short time (as opposed to the g-v-m and hal daemons)
[12:19] <robtaylor> hanfg on, but on my test, sda1 was only attempetd to be mounted when i clicked on it in the Disks window...
[12:21] <robtaylor> so gvm is doing something to make it appear for nautilus, but isnt actually mounting it
[12:27] <pitti> robtaylor: it really was not mounted?
[12:27] <pitti> robtaylor: if it appears in the discs window, it should be mounted
[12:27] <robtaylor> pitti: hmm
[12:27] <pitti> robtaylor: may it be possible that just no nautilus window popped up?
[12:27] <robtaylor> pitti: sda1 appears in the Disks window when i insert an unpartioned usb key
[12:27] <pitti> robtaylor: this can be configured in Computer -> Desktop settings -> removable devices
[12:27] <pitti> robtaylor: can you check with 'mount' if it is mounted?
[12:28] <robtaylor> pitti: sda1 doesnt exist
[12:28] <pitti> robtaylor: ugh, that's ugly
[12:28] <pitti> robtaylor: so actually there is only /dev/sda
[12:28] <robtaylor> yeah. 
[12:28] <pitti> robtaylor: dpkg -s hal
[12:28] <robtaylor> hnag on
[12:28] <pitti> robtaylor: this prints hal's version number
[12:28] <pitti> robtaylor: I only need the version, not the complete output
[12:30] <robtaylor> pitti: i just need to boot it up again :)
[12:30] <pitti> no hurry...
[12:31] <robtaylor> :)
[12:36] <robtaylor> pitti: ok its 0.2.98=1ubuntu9
[12:36] <robtaylor> 0.2.98-1ubuntu9 even
[12:36] <pitti> robtaylor: hmm, should be fine
[12:37] <pitti> robtaylor: does /dev/sda1 exist?
[12:42] <robtaylor> pitti: ah. hang on the problematic usb key is a bootable one made with syslinux - hence its unpartioned
[12:43] <robtaylor> when i insert it i still see an sda1 in my Disks window, but mount /dev/sda1 gives invalid block device
[12:43] <robtaylor> and mount /dev/sda works finw
[12:43] <pitti> robtaylor: hmm, that's probably a difficult memory stick...
[12:44] <pitti> Hi carlos!
[12:44] <carlos> hi
[12:44] <robtaylor> hi carlos !
[12:44] <carlos> robtaylor: hey!!, are you moving to ubuntu?
[12:45] <robtaylor> pitti: yeah. i could do with getting this working tho .. what can i use to see what hal's doing?
[12:45] <pitti> robtaylor: lshal is a nice text utility, the Device Manager a nice GUI frontend
[12:45] <robtaylor> carlos: well i'm going to be basing a product off the livecd :)
[12:45] <carlos> robtaylor: cool
[12:45] <pitti> robtaylor: (in Computer -> System configuration)
[12:46] <robtaylor> carlos: one day we should do our authd =)
[12:47] <carlos> robtaylor: yes, my plan was try it for hoary time, but I'm not sure if that will be possible O:-)
[12:47] <robtaylor> carlos: well i'm back in europe now, so maybe we could meet up in spain sometime and have a couple of days hacking :)
[12:47] <carlos> robtaylor: where are you living now?
[12:48] <robtaylor> carlos: cambridge, uk
[12:48] <carlos> ohh, that's close
[12:49] <robtaylor> carlos: yep, cheap flight with ryanair =)
[12:49] <rburton> jdub, ping?
[12:49] <carlos> also I my cousin lives there and I was planning to do a trip there in the near future :-)
[12:49] <robtaylor> carlos: brilliant :)
[12:50] <carlos> so I will tell you it if I go ther (but I doubt it will be before January
[12:50] <robtaylor> pitti: hmm, curious, this key doesnt appear in the device manager
[12:50] <pitti> robtaylor: hmm, but still it appears in "Disks"?
[12:50] <robtaylor> carlos: i was thinking i might pop down to the the canonical meeting in december..
[12:50] <pitti> robtaylor: this is really odd
[12:50] <carlos> robtaylor: that could be really good
[12:51] <robtaylor> pitti: yep, sda1 is in Disks, hal claims that the only usb devices it knows about are hubs
[12:52] <robtaylor> pitti: and the key is definitly plugged in, and manually mountable
[12:52] <pitti> robtaylor: I never really dealt with the live CD (just tried whether it boots), but something seems to be _severely_ broken on it
[12:52] <pitti> robtaylor: you mean the stick is contained in /etc/fstab?
[12:52] <robtaylor> carlos:yep :) i'll try and save up a spair couple of days holiday :)
[12:53] <robtaylor> pitti: no, yes, maybe=).. fstab has /dev/sda1. 
[12:53] <pitti> robtaylor: THAT is the error
[12:53] <pitti> robtaylor: it shouldn't be there for our tools to work
[12:53] <robtaylor> pitti: ahhhhh
[12:54] <pitti> robtaylor: of course, if /dev/sda1 is in fstab, you can "mount" it
[12:54] <robtaylor> its morphix's auto fstab stuff clashing with your pmount stuff
[12:54] <pitti> rabidbt: I suppose
[12:54] <pitti> robtaylor: I suppose
[12:54] <pitti> rabidbt: sorry, wrong address, should be robtaylor
[12:54] <robtaylor> pitti: nono. when i say i can mount the usbkey i mean uif i sudo mount /dev/sda /mnt/bla it workd
[12:54] <pitti> robtaylor: in an installed Ubuntu system, "mount /dev/sda1" will fail since it is not in fstab
[12:55] <robtaylor> mount /dev/sda1 faile here anyway as that device doesnt exist
[12:55] <pitti> robtaylor: does it work with "pmount /dev/sda" (without sudo)?
[12:55] <sivang> Morning all!
[12:55] <robtaylor> pitti: what should be in fstab?
[12:55] <pitti> robtaylor: so /dev/sda is not in fstab?
[12:55] <pitti> robtaylor: actually no usb devices should be in fstab
[12:55] <robtaylor> pitti: no, /dev/sda1 is
[12:55] <pitti> Hi sivang
[12:56] <pitti> robtaylor: okay, but this should not interfere with automounting of /dev/sda
[12:56] <pitti> robtaylor: it could just be that the partition table of the stick is somehow brokeb
[12:56] <pitti> robtaylor: broken
[12:57] <robtaylor> pitti: there's quite a lot in fstab, generated by morphix
[12:57] <robtaylor> pitti: i tod you, its unpartiond.. partioned keys work fine
[12:57] <pitti> robtaylor: hmm, so if "pmount /dev/sda" works, then it's a hal fault
[12:57] <robtaylor> pitti: pmount /dev/sda is fine
[12:57] <robtaylor> so its hal
[12:57] <robtaylor> can i get any messages out of hal easily?
[12:58] <robtaylor> (livecd - no syslog...)
[12:59] <pitti> robtaylor: you can
[12:59] <Mitario_> lo everyone
[12:59] <pitti> robtaylor: sudo killall hald
[01:00] <pitti> robtaylor: unplug your stick
[01:00] <pitti> robtaylor: sudo hald --drop-privileges --verbose=yes --daemon=no
[01:00] <pitti> robtaylor: then stick your USB thingy and watch the messages
[01:00] <seb128_> hi Mitario_
[01:01] <robtaylor> pitti: hmm, absolutly nothing
[01:01] <robtaylor> i thin kthis is a kernel->hotplug issue
[01:01] <pitti> robtaylor: but at least you see some messages at hal startup?
[01:01] <robtaylor> pitti: yeah, lots at hal startup as it finds everything else
[01:02] <robtaylor> pitti: just abosolutly nothing when i insert this key :/
[01:02] <pitti> robtaylor: then I think it is a kernel bug
[01:02] <pitti> robtaylor: what does 'dmesg | tail' say after plugin?
[01:03] <robtaylor> pitti: ok, this is somewhat odd.. 1) two drives (sda ans sdb) are attached
[01:05] <robtaylor> pitti: hmm ah, only the 1st time.. hmm
[01:06] <robtaylor> pitti: anyway  ldm_validate_privheads(): Cannot find PRIVHEAD 1. unable to read partition table
[01:07] <robtaylor> which i'd expect =)
[01:07] <pitti> robtaylor: can you stick all this into the bug report?
[01:07] <robtaylor> pitti: yeah, sure
[01:07] <pitti> robtaylor: thanks!
[01:09] <robtaylor> pitti: it seems kernel bound too.. i'm going to spend a bit of time building a morphix kernel with from the stock ububtuy kenerl
[01:33] <robtaylor> pitti: should i assign the bug to you?
[01:34] <pitti> robtaylor: sounds like a kernel bug, please assign it to a linux package
[01:34] <pitti> robtaylor: leave the assignee field empty
[01:39] <fabbione> uh?
[01:39] <fabbione> which generated file?
[01:40] <Kamion> fabbione: debian/choose-mirror.templates
[01:40] <Kamion> (generated from debian/templates-in)
[01:41] <Kamion> I've nearly finished the merge now, looking good so far
[01:41] <fabbione> strange...
[01:41] <fabbione> but than.. it's not generated at build time
[01:41] <fabbione> otherwise i would have noticed
[01:41] <Kamion> it's generated by make, so will depend on timestamps etc.
[01:42] <Kamion> it's possible you disabled the generation as part of the Mirrors.masterlist stuff too, I guess
[01:42] <Kamion> I only noticed because the set of patch hunks that didn't apply were inconsistent
[01:43] <fabbione> i see
[01:43] <fabbione> i didn't notice... but anyway it shouldn't be a difficult merge
[01:43] <fabbione> i don't remember changing that much into choose-mirror
[01:44] <fabbione> and i also think joeyh did merge some of the proxy detection thingy
[01:44] <fabbione> at least i gave him the code and the patches
[01:44] <Kamion> yeah, he did
[01:44] <fabbione> nice :-)
[01:44] <Kamion> uh, no, he just merged some of the fixes actually
[01:45] <Kamion> not the tcp_syn_retries stuff
[01:45] <fabbione> there was only one real fix about a call to free a string iirc
[01:45] <Kamion> the merge is mostly just painful because of .po files; I'm beginning to learn how to semi-automate that
[01:45] <fabbione> Kamion: the tcp_syn_retries thing is still questionable.
[01:45] <fabbione> i consider it a hack
[01:46] <fabbione> but without it, the tcp stack takes ages to go in timeout
[01:46] <Kamion> *nod*
[01:46] <fabbione> if there is connectivity to archive, but it is let say unstable
[01:46] <fabbione> than the syn won't help at all
[01:48] <Kamion> bleh, I do effectively have to re-brand .po files though
[01:48] <Kamion> I can automate the msgid changes but not the msgstrs
[01:51] <lamont> moo
[01:51] <robtaylor> lamont: moo
[01:52] <robtaylor> lamont: umm, i'm seeing some oddness with the kernel that gets used on the livecd..
[01:53] <robtaylor> lamont: and that umount proc problem just went away the second time i built. i managed to analyse the 1st one though, as the cause was /usr/sbin/acpid-c/etc/acpi/events-s/var/run/acpid.socket staying running and holding open a file on proc
[01:54] <robtaylor> la
[01:54] <robtaylor> lamont: quite whty it didnt die the 1st time, but worked the 2nd time is beyone me tho =)
[01:54] <lamont> interesting
[01:56] <robtaylor> lamont: where does the kernel used for livecd boot come from?
[01:57] <lamont> morphix
[01:57] <lamont> well, morphix derived
[01:58] <lamont> delivered by the morphix dude
[01:59] <robtaylor> lamont: should it have all the ubuntu patches installed?
[02:02] <lamont> robtaylor: that was a design decision that will be fixed in hoary
[02:02] <lamont> which is to say, 'no'
[02:02] <lamont> is spain 120 or 240V power?
[02:03] <Keybuk> 120
[02:03] <pitti> Keybuk: sure?
[02:03] <pitti> Keybuk: it's Europe, we should have sane voltages
[02:03] <Keybuk> actually
[02:03] <Keybuk> no
[02:03] <Keybuk> sorry
[02:03] <Keybuk> 230V 50Hz
[02:03] <pitti> right
[02:04] <Keybuk> stuck that on the Wiki
[02:04] <fabbione> try to find a picture of the plugs
[02:04] <Keybuk> fabbione: already done
[02:05] <lamont> twin straight round prongs, I expect...
[02:05] <Keybuk> http://kropla.com/!c.htm
[02:05] <lamont> anyone need a netgear wall-wart?
[02:05] <Keybuk> same as Denmark/Italy
[02:05] <thom> which of the 375 thousand wikis have you added it to?
[02:05] <Keybuk> thom: canonical
[02:06] <daniels> 230V!
[02:06] <daniels> spain is love.
[02:06] <lamont> then again, maybe I'll keep my european-wall-wart for the netgear, and just bring that with me.
[02:06] <robtaylor> lamont: what was the reason for that design decision? (i ask as I'm planning on making a kenel with the morphix patches and the ubuntu patches..)
[02:06] <Keybuk> I still like the World Electric Guide's snide comment about UK power
[02:06] <Keybuk> "Although /officially/ 230V ..."
[02:07] <daniels> Keybuk: yeah, we're officially 230, but it's often stated as 240
[02:07] <elmo> aren't we 240 ?
[02:07] <daniels> either is within tolerance
[02:07] <Keybuk> elmo: mostly 240V
[02:07] <Keybuk> but the officialdom says 230 to "be inline with Europe"
[02:07] <robtaylor> ahh
[02:07] <jdub> rburton: ping
[02:07] <Keybuk> 240V is in allowed tolerances, so the fact that UK power isn't really 230 isn't *that* important
[02:07] <lamont> robtaylor: livecd uses a funky overlay technique to do some things - patches available for 2.6.7, but not 2.6.8*, being worked on for 2.6.9
[02:07] <Keybuk> though 250V (which it can spike to) isn't <g>  but we don't talk about that
[02:08] <robtaylor> lamont: ahh, umm, stiinky
[02:08] <lamont> so liveCD is 2.6.7+morphix patches, install CD is 2.6.8.1 + ubuntu patches.  Hoary will be 2.6.x + morphix/ubuntu patches
[02:08] <lamont> robtaylor: very Steeeeeenkyyyyyy
[02:08] <robtaylor> lamont: mini_fo, i presume :)
[02:08] <lamont> that's the bastard
[02:09] <jdub> lamont: so i was wondering
[02:09] <lamont> btw, select on tcp sockets results in a segv from the kernel. :-(
[02:09] <rburton> jdub: pong!
[02:09] <jdub> lamont: and when i was wondering
[02:09] <jdub> lamont: i wondered if cachefs could fill the role of morphix's overlay crack
[02:09] <robtaylor> lamont: morphix kernel?! gah!
[02:09] <jdub> rburton: you on jabber?
[02:09] <rburton> jdub: aye
[02:09] <lamont> robtaylor: and that looks like it's all mini_fo derefing a null pointer..
[02:10] <lamont> jdub: dunno yet, but we need something more designed and less crackful
[02:10] <robtaylor> jdub: the basic idea isnt too crackful, i dont think
[02:11] <jdub> lamont: i have the sneaking suspicion that cachefs will help here
[02:12] <jdub> rburton: (you're not listed as online - did you get those messages?)
[02:12] <rburton> hm, nope
[02:12] <lamont> jdub: cool - we'll have to look at that for the merge
[02:12] <robtaylor> jdub: is that the same as the solaris cachefs?
[02:12] <rburton> jdub: aha: server connect failed when i try to chat to you
[02:12] <jdub> robtaylor: dunno
[02:14] <robtaylor> jdub: (reading  lkml) yep seems like it could do the same job
[02:15] <robtaylor> generic union mounts are the true solution though
[02:16] <robtaylor> which is what mini_fo is trying to do... :S
[02:23] <Kamion> msgmerge -C choose-mirror-0.045ubuntu8/debian/po/de.po choose-mirror-1.06/debian/po/de.po choose-mirror-1.06ubuntu1/debian/po/de.po
[02:23] <Kamion> that seems to work not too badly (provided you've already done debconf-updatepo in choose-mirror-1.06ubuntu1
[02:23] <Kamion> )
[02:25] <Kamion> you need the -C <po-from-warty> otherwise it assumes that all the warty-branded translations are obsolete
[02:29] <hornbeck|sleep> oh, people love to take things out of context
[02:34] <Kamion> hmph, msgmerge seems to have trouble with .po files in different encodings
[02:45] <pitti> jdub, mdz: can I please get approval for #2745 and #2753?
[02:46] <jdub> one sec
[02:48] <jdub> pitti: both approved
[02:48] <pitti> jdub: thx
[02:48] <pitti> jdub: is the version number okay?
[02:48] <pitti> jdub: it's a bit odd, by now we only have an non-approved standard to version security uploads
[02:49] <pitti> jdub: 0.14.1-2ubuntu0.1
[02:49] <azeem> the url to the patches on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/patches is broken
[02:49] <jdub> pitti: hrm, seems fine to me, but mdz may have other opinions
[02:50] <azeem> on a related matter, 'When Ubuntu developers fix bugs that are also present in external packages - from other distributions or from upstream - we make that patch available on our web site' does not apply to enhancements, only bugs, right?
[02:50] <jdub> pitti: more of a q for mdz :)
[02:50] <pitti> jdub: okay; he must approve the uploads anyway, once they are uploaded to the queue
[02:50] <jdub> azeem: should generally be both, but it's been pretty hectic during the release
[02:50] <jdub> azeem: a lot of those will fall out during our big merge
[02:50] <jdub> azeem: also, some features are just not upstreamable
[02:51] <azeem> sure, okie
[02:53] <pitti> elmo: are uploads to warty-security automatically synced to hoary if hoary's version is lower? If so, I could close the relevant bugs, otherwise I must leave them open
[02:57] <elmo> pitti: no, they're not
[02:57] <pitti> elmo: okay thanks. It really gets time for a proper bug tracking system which tracks versions...
[02:59] <robtaylor> where can i find the ubuntu kernel patches?
[02:59] <robtaylor> is anyone working on 2.6.9 yet?
[03:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: merged debootstrap and choose-mirror, you can take those off your list
[03:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: am I OK to go through and start merging d-i packages with .po file updates? I think I've got the hang of doing that now
[03:15] <Keybuk> sure
[03:15] <Kamion> cool
[03:16] <Kamion> I'm trying to gradually automate as I grow to understand it
[03:16] <Keybuk> as you understand how to automate, let me know :)
[03:16] <Keybuk> ChangeLog I'm doing by basically stripping the context and turning them into 0,0 +1,x patches (stick this at the top)
[03:17] <fabbione> seb128: you around?
[03:18] <seb128> yes
[03:18] <fabbione> seb128: see #d-d
[03:18] <fabbione> seb128: thanks :-)
[03:19] <Kamion> debian/po/ is roughly: merge everything else; debconf-updatepo; copy warty, debian, hoary (so far) to separate directories; for each .po file in hoary do msgmerge -C warty/$x.po debian/$x.po hoary/$x.po > new/$x.po; fiddle about lots with corner cases
[03:19] <Keybuk> ouch
[03:19] <Kamion> it's better than rebranding from scratch :)
[03:20] <Keybuk> oh yes
[03:20] <Keybuk> what's the debconf-updatedo bit do?
[03:21] <Kamion> updates debian/po/templates.pot with new source references and then updates debian/po/*.po with new source references, fuzzy markers, etc.
[03:22] <Kamion> it confuses msgmerge much less if you do this first
[03:22] <Kamion> debconf-updatepo is a command to run frequently on anything with debian/po/
[03:22] <Keybuk> right
[03:24] <robtaylor> anyone.. whats the name of the kernel image in ubuntu? act-cache show kernel-source-2.6.8 just gives me debian sources... ~(i have warty main pinned at 1 ;))
[03:24] <seb128> uploads to hoary are open ?
[03:24] <robtaylor> s/image/source
[03:24] <tseng> linux-source
[03:25] <Kamion> robtaylor: linux-source-2.6.8.1
[03:25] <robtaylor> Kamion: thanks :)
[03:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: of course, for packages where we haven't changed debian/po/ it's not worth bothering ...
[03:27] <robtaylor> lamont: when you get back..  on sunday Oliver released mini_fo patches for kernel>=2.6.8.1
[03:33] <Keybuk> Kamion: I guess for ordinary po/ that msgmerge might work too?
[03:33] <Keybuk> any particular reason you use warty as the compendium?
[03:34] <Keybuk> and not latest-debian ?
[03:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: should do
[03:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: well, the primary source of new translations is latest-debian; warty is a backup
[03:36] <Kamion> the goal is really to get us into sync with the latest translations in d-i, which are going to be superior to whatever we have
[03:37] <Keybuk> right
[03:37] <Kamion> I think I've understood def.po and the compendium the right way round
[03:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: are you going to be doing a mass upload of merges, or what?
[03:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: I think the basic idea is to do the merges as automatic as possible
[03:38] <Keybuk> for any that it works, I'll upload
[03:38] <Keybuk> any left will have a source package and a "lost hunks" patch file alongside
[03:38] <Kamion> ok
[03:38] <Keybuk> where the source package will be merged as automatic as possible, with anything conflicting to be resolved
[03:49] <pooh_> hi again all
[03:49] <sivang> oops, changed nicks
[04:12] <lucas_> hi
[04:13] <lucas_> Kamion: when you generate CDs using debian-cd, are you using build.sh or build_all.sh ?
[04:21] <lamont> robtaylor: cool
[04:22] <robtaylor> lamont: i'm looking at building a 2.6.8.1 morphix kernel... though its not obvious what should go in or not..
[04:23] <robtaylor> anyway, so it'll be based off the warty realease kernel, which hopefully will make some things less broken
[04:23] <lamont> yeah - no clues here either, but there is a source drop on www.morphix.org/debian
[04:24] <robtaylor> (though not the device node/pipe/ problems)
[04:24] <robtaylor> lamont: good point, that'd be a good place top start
[04:45] <pitti> mdz, jdub: can one of you please approve #2743?
[04:48] <Keybuk> - Skipping control-center (warty > debian)
[04:48] <Keybuk> ... that's a bit better <g>
[04:57] <Kamion> lucas_: build.sh as it happens, but you can use either
[04:57] <Kamion> lucas_: (as long as you change build_sll.sh to have the right list of architectures)
[04:58] <Keybuk> heh, a few packages are bogus errors ... we actually reverted to debian
[05:03] <rburton> jdub: there?
[05:19] <sid77> hi
[05:38] <rburton> what broke so quickly?
[05:40] <lamont> rburton: we sync'ed all the unmodified packages from sid, and they're building now.
[05:40] <rburton> oh fun
[05:41] <lamont> which basically means that large parts of things will quite likely be uninstallable, etc.
[05:41] <lamont> because none of the need-to-be-merged packages are included in that...
[05:43] <lamont> rburton: the key thing to remember is that hoary will be _REALLY_ unstable/broken for a while.
[05:44] <Kamion> pretty much no possible way to test these changes until they've all been made
[05:44] <elmo> Kamion: sorry, just to confirm, I can trash everything but latest installer-$arch and daily-installer-* ?
[05:44] <elmo> [I asked that earlier, right before a netsplit, if you already answered, I missed it, sorry] 
[05:45] <Kamion> elmo: didn't see it, but yes, and you can trash daily-installer-* in warty if that's still possible
[05:45] <Kamion> (or advisable)
[05:48] <elmo> k, th
[05:48] <elmo> x
[05:49] <thom> ...bye
[05:51] <Kamion> thom: I was resisting manfully
[05:51] <thom> i couldn't help myself
[05:51] <thom> arrgh. i really struggle to type "myself". if i'm not concentrating my fingers go for "mysql"
[05:52] <thom> damn sys admin jobs anyway
[05:53] <sid77> lol
[05:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: more fun; if the encoding of a .po file has changed then you have to iconv the one from warty before running msgmerge
[05:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: I think we should make daf write some python to deal with this for us :o)
[05:55] <Keybuk> "here's three po files, make me a fourth"
[05:56] <daf> if the PO files declare their encodings properly, it probably would be fairly easy to automate
[05:57] <Kamion> they pretty much always do in d-i at least; too much stuff breaks obviously if the encoding is wrong
[05:57] <robtaylor> Kamion: just looking over hoary goals... whats 'kickstart' ?
[05:58] <sivang> robtaylor : a system that manages mass installs
[05:58] <sivang> robtaylor : or allows for
[05:58] <thom> the redhat automated install system
[05:58] <robtaylor> ah.
[05:58] <robtaylor> groovey
[06:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: P.S. it'd be nice to have it flagged somehow when the msgstr upon which a branded msgstr is based changes ...
[06:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: unfortunately I don't think there's enough metadata in the .po file for that :-(
[06:22] <daf> Kamion: no, the PO format doesn't support that directly
[06:22] <daf> Kamion: I wonder if we could emulate it but putting data in comments or something and writing a tool that compares them
[06:54] <pitti> mdz: Morning! If the meeting is finished and you have some time, can you please approve #2743 (libc6 security bug)? TIA
[06:54] <pitti> mdz: s/If/When/
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: the meeting is not finished yet
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: but feel free to join us :-)
[06:54] <pitti> mdz: I'll do, up to now I was buried in work
[06:54] <fabbione> new X.org build logs are scary
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: yes, you inherited a number of bugs during the night :-)
[06:54] <fabbione> they look much worst than xfree86
[06:54] <pitti> mdz: what happened to Nathaniel BTW?
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: nathaniel will not be on the team for Hoary
[06:55] <fabbione> mdz: it seems amazing.. compiling the X.org monolitch tree i am getting hundreds of extra warnings i wasn't getting before
[06:56] <mdz> fabbione: what kind of warnings?
[06:56] <fabbione> duplicate declarations mostly and function without prototypes
[06:56] <lamont> are some of the auto-merges getting uploaded?
[06:56] <fabbione> all stuff i wasn't getting before
[06:57] <fabbione> ../../exports/include/X11/extensions/xtrapdi.h:86: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
[06:57] <fabbione> stuff like this one
[06:57] <fabbione> i did compile libxext and never got this stuff
[06:57] <mdz> fabbione: this is the same code organized differently, or different code?
[06:58] <fabbione> same code
[06:58] <fabbione> from modular (simulated) back to monolitich
[06:58] <fabbione> (or how the hell monolitich is spelled)
[06:59] <lamont> monolithic
[07:00] <elmo> does anyone have a machine where snmpd randomly flakes out under even marginal load?
[07:00] <fabbione> lamont: thanks :-)
[07:00] <elmo> I've even tried nicing the stupid thing up
[07:00] <fabbione> elmo: ask Jochen (the maintainer)
[07:00] <fabbione> he is really cool at debugging stuff
[07:00] <fabbione> i can guarantee for him :-)
[07:00] <elmo> fabbione: hmm,k, will do, thanks
[07:01] <fabbione> no problem
[07:01] <Keybuk> lots of "ignored" in the patch output
[07:02] <Keybuk> evolution  <base: 1.4.6-3>  <warty: 2.0.2-0ubuntu2>  <debian: 2.0.2-3>
[07:06] <lamont> Keybuk: I wonder if that's because we sync'ed, and immediately uploaded ubuntu1...
[07:06] <lamont> actually -0ubuntu* means probably not
[07:07] <lamont> Keybuk: I think we uploaded evo 2.0 before debian did...
[07:07] <mdz> pitti: the masters of the universe discussion is happening; you seem to have some ideas, so it would be great to have your input
[07:07] <mdz> elmo: flakes out how?
[07:08] <pitti> mdz: I'm already reading
[07:08] <mdz> pitti: ok :-)
[07:08] <mdz> pitti: what time do you need to leave today?
[07:08] <pitti> mdz: in about 30 minutes
[07:08] <mdz> I know you normally leave around this time, but we need to get together and review pending security issues
[07:08] <elmo> [26-Oct-2004 10:55:02 ]  Retrieved data for icmp (0): 30740,310,4904,4,0,0,0,25288,544,0,0,0,0,27285,0,1997,0,0,0,0,0,25288,0,0,0,0
[07:08] <elmo> [26-Oct-2004 10:55:02 ]  Retrieved data for tcp (0): 35117,23001,45,27467107,25816883,83454
[07:08] <elmo> [26-Oct-2004 10:55:12*]  No response from "chinstrap" [82.211.81.135] .161
[07:08] <elmo> mdz: i.e. the cricket collector just timesout
[07:08] <pitti> mdz: I will return about 2100 UTC, will that be enough?
[07:08] <mdz> pitti: oh yes, that's fine
[07:08] <elmo> it's not everytime, but it's several times a day
[07:09] <pitti> mdz: of course I can stay here and skip sport another time...
[07:09] <mdz> I will be around for another 12+ hours
[07:09] <pitti> mdz: okay,then I would really like to have some physical training again :-)
[07:16] <Mitario> hi everyone
[07:16] <nasdaq4088> hi mitario
[07:25] <mdz> elmo: I have seen that, yes
[07:25] <mdz> dunno which bit is doing the sucking in that equation
[07:28] <elmo> IM (previous) E, it's a box under heavy load
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> o.o
[07:28] <elmo> but it seems to happen even when chinstrap _isn't_ loaded
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> tseng
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> what the heck, are you in every channel or waht
[07:29] <tseng> indeed.
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> how much bandwidth does xchat use over there?
[07:29] <tseng> irssi
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> how much bandwidth does irssi use over there?
[07:29] <tseng> it runs on one of the oftc nodes
[07:29] <tseng> so im localhost to a lot of things
[07:30] <bluefoxicy> yeah yeah, I bet I could DCC you full .ogm anime collections of .hack//sign and still be dwarfed for BW usage by the sheer volume of text coming down your pipe.
[07:30] <bluefoxicy> anyway.
[07:32] <bluefoxicy> I was told to discus stuff here, just waiting for the CC meeting to end so that people aren't busy (plus I need to organize my thoughts)
[07:37] <tseng> i think what you want to do should happen in a seperate branch or something
[07:37] <tseng> and get merged back in the next cycle
[07:41] <fabbione> humpf..
[07:41] <fabbione> we need a newer version of xrender
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  yes
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I don't expect people to just start hacking on the stable system; getting it working in the lab (a separate branch to be merged is a lab) first is a no brainer.
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  but I do want these things in mainline.
[07:46] <tseng> did you even install ubuntu yet?
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> on a 1.4 gig partition
[07:46] <thom> uh, one of ubuntu's aims is to encourage derivatives
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> it looks like someone kicked my hard drive  :)
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> thom:  The effect I'm aiming at is nuclear; I'm trying to incite revolutionary change across all distributions and even potentially across the entire computer industry.
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> everything starts somewher.
[07:52] <elmo> crap, we need to do the gnutls11 migration for hoary
[07:53] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  i need a filesystem that can compress individual files transparantly
[07:53] <bluefoxicy> I have 1.4G but ubuntu-desktop wants 1.8
[07:53] <mdz> bluefoxicy: you don't need a compressed filesystem, but rather a larger partition :-)
[07:53] <elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/packages_to_merge.txt
[07:53] <elmo> btw
[07:53] <thom> are we going to ignore the gcc3.4/4.0 transition too? :-)
[07:53] <elmo> thom: there hasn't been one in sid?
[07:53] <bob2> bluefoxicy: boot with the archive-copier disabled and you can install with 1.4GB
[07:54] <bluefoxicy> bob2:  what's final space usage
[07:54] <mdz> elmo: that's the list of stuff that Keybuk said would be done by this afternoon, right?
[07:54] <mdz> ;-)
[07:54] <thom> sorry, that's what i mean. how are we going to deal with gcc3.4?
[07:54] <doogie> does ubuntu do their own security, or do they reuse debian security releases?
[07:54] <bluefoxicy> bob2: and would it be possible to download/install/wipe cycle one at a time?
[07:54] <thom> leave it in 3.3 abi mode?
[07:54] <bob2> bluefoxicy: ~1.4GB or so for the final install
[07:54] <thom> doogie: our own
[07:55] <bob2> bluefoxicy: install one paclage at a time? no.
[07:55] <bluefoxicy> bob2: actually, I can use a tmpfs to store the archives on too (I do that to build crap)
[07:55] <elmo> mdz: indeed... IIRC, he even said, "y'all can beat me senseless if it isn't"
[07:55] <elmo> tho maybe I made that up
[07:55] <bluefoxicy> bob2:  it needs to be <1.4G
[07:55] <thom> ...maybe
[07:55] <bluefoxicy> /dev/hda3             1.4G  881M  514M  64% 
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> bob2:  where do archives get downloaded to by apt
[07:59] <bluefoxicy> I would like to mount a tmpfs there.
[07:59] <bob2> bluefoxicy: /var/cache/apt/archives/
[08:00] <bluefoxicy> hmm.  Apt will bitch if partial/ isn't in there (no, it won't make it itself, sarge gave me that problem)
[08:01] <Kamion> yes, that's kind of annoying
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> it should be fix so that a ram based filesystem can be mounted there; I usually have 2G swap and mount 2G tmpfs (I have 768M ram)
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> fixed
[08:01] <bluefoxicy> wtf, do I speak english or not
[08:03] <Kamion> don't see why you couldn't mount a ramdisk there provided you did mkdir partial in the script that mounts it
[08:03] <Kamion> seems fairly trivial
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> except that you can't make scripts in fstab :)
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> heh
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> options:
[08:04] <Kamion> plenty of options
[08:04] <bluefoxicy>  -o `/sbin/mount_tmpfs`
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> you could hack up a script to do that :P
[08:05] <lamont> mdz: you want ftbfs bugs for hoary build failures yet, or wait until we get more of it there?
[08:06] <mdz> lamont: if the package is up to date (synched or merged), a bug should be filed
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> Need to get 230MB of archives.
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> After unpacking 679MB of additional disk space will be used.
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> does the 679 include the archives?
[08:09] <Kamion> don't think so
[08:09] <Kamion> could be wrong, but I don't think so. check the apt source if you want to be sure
[08:14] <thom> pretty sure it doesn't
[08:14] <lamont> mdz: was more of a priority question.
[08:18] <tseng> mmm, layers
[08:23] <amu> lamont: ? 
[08:24] <lamont> amu: Shrek references
[08:24] <lamont> (movie)
[08:25] <amu> hehe i didnt saw it 
[08:25] <lamont> amu: specifically, the current ubuntu buildd infrastructure has the neat little bug that main packages are sometimes built with universe packages satisfying the build-depends, instead of main packages.
[08:25] <lamont> amu: Shrek (an ogre) waxes philosophical about onions and their similarities to ogres at one point
[08:26] <amu> lamont: local or home editon ? 
[08:26] <lamont> amu: we're talking buildd here, not liveCD
[08:26] <lamont> packages in the repo
[08:35] <elmo> mdz: do you want me to continue doing seed syncage via you and jeff?
[08:36] <mdz> elmo: yes
[08:39] <bluefoxicy> /dev/hda3             1.4G  1.3G  127M  91% /mnt/ubuntu  :D
[08:51] <Keybuk> elmo: can you install dpkg-dev on rookery?
[08:53] <elmo> done
[08:53] <Keybuk> thanks dude
[09:05] <Keybuk> * Considering acpid
[09:05] <Keybuk> * Building acpid_1.0.3-21ubuntu1.dsc
[09:05] <Keybuk> \o/
[09:05] <Keybuk> that seems to be working then
[09:05] <Keybuk> Stargate and dinner time, me thinks
[09:10] <mdz> KeyserSoze: HEY
[09:10] <mdz> er
[09:10] <mdz> that was meant for keybuk
[09:47] <Kamion> elmo: what's the procedure in cases where all the Ubuntu changes have been merged into Debian, so we just need to throw away our changes and resync?
[09:51] <marga> Kamion: I was just looking at the Installer Team page and you are the only one listed there... Are you working alone on ubuntu installer or are the others just not listed?
[09:54] <Kamion> marga: mostly alone right now, occasional help from some of the other core team guys like Fabio
[09:56] <Kamion> marga: although of course so much of it comes from d-i that it's not a total disaster that way :-)
[09:57] <marga> Kamion: yeah, I guess... :)
[09:57] <Kamion> but all the same more hackers to distribute bugs among would be a good thing
[10:01] <hornbeck> mako: you around?
[10:16] <mako> hornbeck: yes, a little distracted right now.. finishing lunch, give me a couple minutes
[10:29] <mjg59> PXEBooting the craptop reveals it has a GUID of 22222222-2222-2222-2222-22222222222
[10:29] <elmo> Kamion: just let me know
[10:29] <Kamion> elmo: mail to @canonical.com?
[10:30] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, why not
[10:30] <Kamion> ok
[10:30] <plovs> hornbeck, the wiki has been moved
[10:30] <plovs> hornbeck, but is still beta
[10:30] <doogie> er, it has?
[10:30] <doogie> I thought ubuntu was supposed to be more stable.
[10:31] <doogie> but you guys have moved the wiki.
[10:31] <daniels> what is it with insecure tempfile creation every other day?
[10:37] <asw> mako: drop me a line re NYC... 
[10:53] <azeem> sabdfl: I heard you're delivering a speech tomorrow in Frankfurt?
[10:55] <sabdfl> azeem: yes, keynote "taking linux to the desktop"
[10:55] <sabdfl> any suggestions on the topic?
[10:56] <amu> LinuxDesktops in Governments ;)  
[10:57] <tseng> erotica and productivity
[10:57] <tseng> er
[10:57] <azeem> sabdfl: something involving 'pants off', but I'm not sure about details
[10:58] <azeem> sabdfl: it's at 11:30, right? I'll need to getup early then :-/
[11:02] <sabdfl> tseng: you just helped me make my mind up about the desktop i'll be showing :-)
[11:02] <tseng> haha.
[11:02] <bluefoxicy> heh
[11:03] <bluefoxicy> why do I suddenly think of half my friends, who all have catgirls on their desktop wallpapers, with either barely anything or just the right angle to prevent exposure
[11:04] <tseng> we were thinking along the lines of soft porn for straight folks
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> heh
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> wasn't the recent theme centered around some naked guy
[11:04] <tseng> but i guess its your desktop
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> Ubuntu Linux:  Bodies are Beautiful
[11:04] <tseng> well, a guy with his top off is less suggestive than a chick with her top iff
[11:04] <tseng> off.
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> heh.
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> Yeah, he was cute though
[11:05] <tseng> er, look at him smiling on the splash screen, he looks silly
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> yeah, but cute
[11:06] <tseng> i cant say what he looks like on the gdm theme
[11:06] <tseng> because all us straight guys get sucked in the the "NIPPLES OF DOOM"
[11:06] <tseng> on the blonde chick
[11:06] <bluefoxicy> lol
[11:06] <bluefoxicy> what
[11:06] <bluefoxicy> I didn't even notice nipples
[11:06] <bluefoxicy> what are they poking through her top or something?
[11:06] <tseng> they are sticking out
[11:06] <bluefoxicy> o_O
[11:06] <tseng> hey im off to work
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> exposure?
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> later
[11:07] <tseng> no
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> ok
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> that'd be kinda bad PR
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> Ubuntu Linux:  Next release, softcore penguin porn
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> . . . omg hello.jpg XD
[11:08] <amu> sooo my buildenv looks fine, at least i got a fat ISO ;) *burning*   
[11:08] <pitti> mdz: Hi, I'm back. Have you got a minute?
[11:15] <mdz> pitti: yes
[11:15] <mdz> my network was hosed, but I've just fixed it
[11:15] <pitti> mdz: can you please approve #2743?
[11:16] <pitti> mdz: in addition, I wanted to ask you whether I should prepare some USNs and which list to send them to
[11:16] <mdz> pitti: yes, you should
[11:16] <mdz> pitti: use the format that I used for the first two
[11:16] <mdz> send them to ubuntu-security-announce, Bcc'd to bugtraq and full-disclosure
[11:17] <pitti> mdz: Oh, I need to subscribe to this list
[11:17] <mdz> pitti: that would be good, yes :-)
[11:17] <mdz> pitti: do you have a login to edit the website?
[11:17] <Kamion> mdz: if, hypothetically, I wanted to make a security fix to warty/universe, I take it you want backports there too?
[11:17] <mdz> we also have a security errata section on the website now
[11:17] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[11:17] <pitti> mdz: I got a password, never tried it though; should be possible
[11:17] <mdz> Kamion: my current feeling is that we can be liberal with universe things which FTBFS
[11:18] <mdz> and for other things, we should have criteria very similar to main
[11:19] <Kamion> fair enough, I'll try to pick out the relevant changeset
[11:19] <Kamion> are we sending USNs for universe in the event that we do security updates?
[11:20] <Kamion> (this is off the clock - I'm doing the upload to Debian anyway)
[11:20] <elmo> mdz: we do?
[11:20] <mdz> elmo: we do what?
[11:21] <mdz> Kamion: good question, hadn't thought about it
[11:21] <pitti> mdz: is there a tool which generates these pacakge lists with md5sums automatically?
[11:21] <elmo> have a security errata section
[11:21] <elmo> 'cos /security/ still seems to go to the silly team page
[11:22] <mdz> elmo: it's hidden under 'documentation' at the moment
[11:22] <elmo> I think we should do USN's for universe just with the usual "this is not the component you want to use </hand-wave>" disclaimer
[11:22] <mdz> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/usn/errorreferencefolder_view
[11:22] <mdz> pitti: yes
[11:22] <mdz> pitti: amber generates them
[11:23] <elmo> that is.. well hidden :)
[11:23] <pitti> mdz: hmm, can I download it from somewhere? 
[11:24] <elmo> mmph, we don't even have prettified HTML versions :(
[11:25] <mdz> elmo: where does amber send that stuff yet?
[11:25] <mdz> elmo: cut me some slack, I did it by hand :-)
[11:25] <elmo> mdz: katie@security.u.c -> team@security.u.c -> you
[11:25] <mdz> elmo: by the way, does security@ubuntu.* go to the right place?
[11:25] <elmo> hmm, no, probably not, I'll fix
[11:27] <mdz> elmo: please add pitti to team@
[11:27] <elmo> k
[11:27] <mdz> so that he gets the amber mails
[11:28] <pitti> mdz: ah, this amber stuff comes by mail whenever something is uploaded to *-security?
[11:28] <mdz> pitti: no, it comes when amber is run
[11:28] <elmo> security@canonical too, you think?
[11:28] <elmo> pitti: amber is what actually releases the security uploads into the archive
[11:28] <mdz> elmo: security@canonical.com = your website has been defaced, dude
[11:28] <mdz> in which case, I think that's all you :-P
[11:29] <mdz> pitti: I need a 10 minute workrave break and then we can go over this stuff
[11:29] <elmo> 10 minute?? that's workrave on the "slackers'r'us" setting ;-P
[11:30] <pitti> elmo: nice; since the stuff that I uploaded today is not yet installed, I should get the amber mails now, too, right?
[11:30] <pitti> mdz: no problem, I'm fixing imagemagick in the meantime
[11:32] <elmo> yeah
[11:34] <sabdfl> night all
[11:34] <elmo> night sabdfl
[11:39] <Kamion> mdz: erk, we have putty 0.54 even, and I never noticed :(
[11:39] <Kamion> so I'll need to work out two changesets, since both 0.55 and 0.56 were security releases
[11:40] <amu> mdz: did you got my mail from Indonesia InfoLINUX magazine?
[11:46] <mdz> amu: yes
[11:47] <amu> mdz: to whom i should forward those messages, i got many of them :) 
[11:48] <mdz> amu: I am not sure that I understand the question in the email
[11:49] <mdz> amu: is it asking whether there will be a gnoppix release in 2005?
[11:52] <amu> mdz: good question :) i've no idea what they want from me, i ignored such requests in past :) well my short answer would be look to the web, thats probably not such polite, they expect :)   
[11:52] <mdz> pitti: are you maintaining a list of pending security issues and their status?
[11:52] <pitti> mdz: yes
[11:53] <pitti> more or less in bz, and in a personal txt file
[11:53] <pitti> mdz: those bugs who are pending need to be approved by you (currently 2743 and 2769)
[11:53] <pitti> mdz: the bugs for which I uploaded packages to the security queue are open again with normal priority
[11:55] <mdz> pitti: what about the ones I forwarded to you without filing bugs? are any of those still pending?  I don't remember how many there were
[11:55] <elmo> what's the USN-<n>-<n> notation?  advisory number, and version of that advisory num ?
[11:55] <pitti> mdz: so far that were only xpdf and cups
[11:55] <pitti> mdz: but these should be settled
[11:55] <Kamion> night all
[11:56] <mdz> elmo: yes, same as Debian essentially
[11:56] <mdz> Kamion: night
[11:56] <pitti> Night Kamion
[11:56] <pitti> mdz: the libpng stuff is also already dealt with
[11:56] <mdz> pitti: we should add a security keyword or something to bugzilla
[11:57] <mdz> pitti: can you give me a list of bug #s?
[11:57] <amu> someone has a tip with #2697
[11:58] <pitti> mdz: today I processed: 2743, 2744, 2745, 2762, 2769
[11:58] <pitti> mdz: 2771 and 2748 are not yet processed by me
[11:58] <mdz> pitti: have you uploaded them to the security queue?
[11:58] <pitti> mdz: I uploaded 2744, 2745 ad 2762
[11:59] <mdz> ok, leaving 2743 and 2769
[11:59] <pitti> mdz: 2743 and 2769 need to be approved by you
[11:59] <pitti> yes
[11:59] <mdz> pitti: I am happy for you to upload to the security queue without waiting for approval
[11:59] <mdz> pitti: just be careful with the version number
[11:59] <pitti> mdz: okay, thanks. That eases the process a lot
[11:59] <pitti> are the current version numbers okay?
[12:00] <mdz> pitti: that way the packages can be built immediately, and we can base review on what is in the security queue
[12:00] <pitti> i. g. if the last version was -2, the update would be -2ubuntu0.1
[12:00] <mdz> there is less potential for error tat way
[12:00] <mdz> s/tat/that/
[12:00] <pitti> new: this was a new case today