BradBor mawson12:01
BradBit's amazing how far having tabs along the top of the page and portlets can make it look like you rewrote plone12:03
=== ddaa gets the page
limiBradB: do you use vim on OS X?12:05
ddaaWhere's the "Plone Powered" link? ;-P12:05
BradBlimi: I can, but I'm mainly an emacs guy.12:05
BradBddaa: heh heh12:06
SteveAtwo tabs12:06
SteveAI guess because both "projects" and "malone" are inthe url12:06
=== SteveA --> bed
BradBSteveA: weird. i wondered what the logic behind that was.12:09
dafspiv_: woo, transactional zopeless!12:24
=== BradB is now known as BradB|away
ddaacourtesy of taxi.py12:32
ddaaNow... if only I could get this import to go that far before hanging...12:32
lifelessddaa: happy taxi's ?12:46
ddaaNot there yet :-(12:46
ddaaI ran an import not long ago and it just hung...12:46
ddaaAnd I have been carried away trying to debug the hang.12:46
lifelessstrace -p pid - bet you a beer its waiting on a futex12:46
ddaaThat's vague...12:46
lifelessif its waiting on a futex, its the Queue12:46
ddaaI'm tracing the damn thing with twisted spewage.12:46
ddaalifeless: regarding the hangs, I often have them after "launched local CVS server"12:52
ddaaJust not when I want them to happen of course.12:52
ddaaIs there any pyarch around there?12:53
lifelessafter the local CVS server launches, there is an rlog call, which can take non-trivial time.12:53
lifelessthere isn't any pyarch at that point.12:54
ddaaThat's hang situation. Not impatience. No network traffic, no cpu usage, no i/o frenzy.12:55
lifelessok, thats a concern then.12:55
lifelesswhat does strace show you ?12:55
ddaaNot stracing...12:55
lifeless(when I see that, its often very low cpu, but present)12:55
ddaaspewing, but it's working okay atm.12:55
lifelessok, next time it happens, attach a strace to the slave before you kill it12:56
ddaaWell... I do have some background activity... so maybe I'm missing it... but that would suprise me very very much.12:56
ddaaIf it's hung, I s'pose strace will show nothing, right?12:57
lifelessstrace will show the call that hung01:00
ddaaMh. Okay.01:00
lifelessif you see multiple processes as the slave (old style threads), attach to them all, one will be the slave event loop, and not helpful.01:01
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: translationsPortlet implemented and inserted into SourcePackage page. Closes bug #2139 (patch-702)01:01
ddaalifeless: yeah... I have many such threads most of the time...01:01
dilysBug 2139 resolved: Rosetta link (portlet?) for Soyuz Source Package index01:02
=== ddaa is irresistibly draws to a ridiculously expensive and overpowered thinkpad t42
lifelessbuy a hoverbook01:17
lifelessgoes well with the massage-keyboard01:17
limimaybe tla will finally not be dog-slow if he gets a Powerbook ;)01:17
lifelesshe has a powerbook at the moment01:17
ddaaa iBook actually... and so does bob201:18
limi...running Linux ;)01:18
ddaawe just happen to be using a real operating system :-P01:18
lifelesslimi: of course.01:18
limia real operating system that doesn't support the wifi card in the Powerbook :P01:18
ddaabtw, you guys cannot recognize great technology. Touch keyboards are the future.01:18
ddaaWell... maybe... they are maybe a bit awkyard with legacy layouts...01:19
ddaalimi: my ibook does not have wifi. That's the main problem.01:22
ddaaI was cheap when i bought it.01:22
ddaaAnd get your fruit company to be a bit more tight assed when it comes to hardware specs.01:22
ddaa*a bit less01:23
limikiko: you're a vim user, right?02:54
kikolimi, indeed I am.02:55
limitrying to make the switch ;)02:55
limiis there an autocomplete HTML mode/plugin available?02:55
limifound this: http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=30102:55
limiand put it in my .vim/ftplugins02:56
limibut nothing happens :] 02:56
limikiko: and you are the kind of person that requires nick highlight too, right? ;)02:57
kikoyeah, because 1000 people want to talk to me all the time in 50 differnet channels :)02:57
limiI can sympathize ;)02:58
limikiko: anyway, what do you use for HTML editing in vim?02:58
kikonothing much, to be honest. 02:59
limikiko: autocomplete and tag matching is what I need - if it supports folding, that's a bonus :)02:59
kikothat script looks pretty cool02:59
limikiko: but is there a special magic to activate an ftplugin?02:59
kikoplacing it in your /ftplugin dir should work, I suspect03:00
limikiko: it's in ~/.vim/ftplugin/ now, but I see no love - I suspect you need to put it into XML mode or something?03:01
kikothere seems to be something in html.vim there03:01
kikoI can take a look a bit later and test it myself, will let you know of the results03:02
limihm, seems to be a file extension thing03:03
limiworks if I have an .html file03:03
limithanks :)03:03
kikoyou can :set filetype=html if you want to force that03:05
kikoand you can set hooks in your .vimrc that do that for you03:05
limikiko: and the extension -> filetype mapping is done where? need to define .pt as XML :)03:07
kikoyou can just set it manually in your .vimrc03:07
kikoau! BufRead,BufNewFile *.ptl set filetype=python03:07
kikoau! BufRead,BufNewFile *.pt set filetype=html03:07
limithanks :)03:07
limithere we go :)03:09
=== limi feels like a vim pro already ;)
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.3: now we have the name, propogate it throughout (patch-1)03:20
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.3: s/baz/bazaar in file names (patch-2)03:26
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--0: propogate name change (patch-1)03:38
lifelessthelove beby03:57
=== kiko raises eyebrows
kikolifeless, I can't say how much I think you rock for starting this.04:01
lifelessthank you. Mark gave me the chance and the prod.04:01
kikocan we get an inventory of the patches applied to it so far?04:02
lifelessthere aren't any yet.,04:02
kikoI mean, a list with a summary of descriptions 04:02
lifelessstill bootstrapping the name change.04:03
kikoI see. I imagine we'll keep one, or would we be using tla inventories to browse them?04:09
lifelessI'm not sure what you are looking for specifically.04:10
lifelessif you mean a changelog - what features are added, the changelog for it should be sufficient.04:10
lifelesswe will be maintaining a separate list of UI forward-compatible-breaking changes.04:11
kikothat's that I'm thinking, yes.04:11
lifelesshave a look at the draft web page, its linked from the bazaar page.04:12
kikoI saw it, yeah.04:12
lifelesstheres a section on it just for that.04:12
=== kiko is now known as kiko-afk
=== BradB|away is now known as BradB
=== BradB is now known as BradB|zzz
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad
KinnisonHi carlos11:17
KinnisonRight; which database should we be using on mawson?11:20
SteveAelmo: ping?11:36
KinnisonWhat's a futex and why would gzip be waiting on one?11:37
SteveAa future mutex?11:38
ddaafast mutex, that's a linux kernel thing.11:39
SteveA"fut alors"11:39
KinnisonRight; 'cos apt-ftparchive gets stuck11:39
Kinnisonand this is irritating because it's why my test-run didn't finish11:40
ddaaThe sys_futex system call provides a method for a program to wait for a value at a given address to change, and a method to wake up anyone waiting on a particular address. While the addresses for the same memory in separate processes may not be identical, the kernel maps them interally so the same memory mapped in different locations will correspond for sys_futex calls.  Futexes are typically used to implement the contended case of a lock in shared 11:42
KinnisonSo can I stop it using them since it's clearly broken?11:49
ddaaI'd rather suspect a userspace bug.11:51
KinnisonLD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4 .....11:52
Kinnisonseems to let it get on with things and run11:52
ddaaevil... but good to know you can do that...11:53
=== Kinnison will have to try and debug whatever is causing gzip to hang
Kinnisonbut for now at least; my test run might complete11:53
Kinnisonapt-ftparchive is doing its job :-)11:56
=== lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad
elmoKinnison: upgrade your gzip12:08
elmoit's #185412:08
Kinnisonelmo: zhongshan12:08
KinnisonDone. 8000MB in 13533 archives. Took 15m48s12:09
Kinnisonw00 w00 w0012:09
=== Kinnison blows the caches away and tries again
Kinnisonelmo: zhongshan still has that odd "apt-extracttemplates /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6-dev_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2_i386.deb" running12:10
Kinnisonwell; s/running/in the process table/12:11
elmoyeah, it doesn't matter12:11
ddaado you know if rsync --link-dest also detects renames?12:12
=== Kinnison takes this workrave break and goes to get dressed
Kinnisonelmo: Could you look at zhongshan:~dsilvers/apt.conf and tell me if it looks sane to you? It built zhongshan:~dsilvers/dists/... :-)12:24
stubKinnison: launchpad_dogfood12:58
Kinnisonstub: gotcha12:58
SteveAelmo: did you lock the wiki yet?12:59
elmoyes, just managed to.  moin was being.. uncooperative01:00
SteveAok.  I've just been chatting to enrico01:02
SteveAhe's going to announce a plan to the docs mailing list01:02
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: File list publishing for lucille (patch-703)01:04
SteveAelmo: I need to get a little food.  After that, I'm going to set up cacheing in plone, following vika's instructions.01:29
SteveAelmo: There are some changes need to the apache config.  I'll mail those to you in a bit.01:29
elmook, cool01:30
SteveAbut, I suggest not to do them until I've done the plone set-up01:32
SteveAthe cool thing is, I don't think I even have to restart plone01:32
=== lifeless [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #launchpad
ddaaI got the result of the taxi test.01:49
lifelessgood/bad/indifferent ?01:49
ddaapsycopg.OperationalError, FATAL:  database "launchpad_ftest" does not exist01:49
lifelessspiv_: around?01:49
spiv_It's using the default value from canonical.lp.dbname.01:50
ddaaI need to doublecheck some stuff, but at first I find that suprising since job loading is done from the database.01:50
lifelessddaa: taxi runs in the other process01:50
spiv_ddaa: Ah... but job loading happens in the master.01:50
lifelesscompletely decoupled01:50
spiv_Including decoupled configuration of things like databases :)01:50
ddaaspiv_: other threads do not use the same value of canonical.lp.dbname?01:50
lifelessddaa: threads have nothing to do with this ?01:51
spiv_ddaa: What else accesses the db from the slave?  I thought the slave got its directions from the master?01:51
ddaalifeless: I do not know what has to do with what, but if the only db name used is read from the canonical.lp module, and that module is loaded only once, I cannot see how that can happen.01:52
lifelessspiv_: nothing else in the slave talks to the db01:52
lifelessddaa: is the slave running from the same checkout as the master ?01:53
ddaalifeless: I do not see how it could be differently, and anyway I do not see how that would be relevant. The database name is set in master.cfg immediately after first importing launchpad.db.01:54
lifelessddaa: *thats in the master*01:54
lifeless*taxi is in the slave*01:54
lifelessget much sleep last night ? :)01:54
ddaaThen how should I configure that in the slave?01:54
ddaaNot much... I stayed up waaay to late looking for a french place to buy the specific lappy I'd like.01:55
ddaaI'm not sure I'd get the full benefit of the garantee if I buy it from some other country...01:55
ddaaSoooooo... spiv_? What's the place to set the dbname for the slave?01:56
spiv_ddaa: canonical.lp.dname ;)01:57
ddaaI'd very much prefer something that does not involve hardcoding settings...01:57
ddaamaybe that data could be passed down the wire... e.g. in the Job?01:58
spiv_Yeah, it probably could be.01:58
ddaaSo, if I just put an additional attribute in the job loaded from the master, it's going to be accessible by the slave? The job is pickled or something then passed on the wire?01:59
spiv_Or make a sitecustomize.py that overrides it ;)02:00
lifelessddaa: no, don't pass it to the Job02:00
lifelessin production that would be a PITA.02:01
lifelessa sitecustomize.py is more appropriate.02:01
ddaaspiv_: Please explain. I want all configuration to stay in the botmaster directory. You suggest putting an optional module there and have buildbot try to load it?02:01
ddaaMh... actually, it should be in the slave's directory...02:02
spiv_echo "import canonical.lp; canonical.lp.dbname='blah'" > sitecustomize.py; PYTHONPATH=. twistd etcetc...02:02
ddaaI see. I'd load that information from Job.py?02:03
ddaaIn runJob, maybe?02:03
spiv_(When starting up, i.e. before running a program, python will try to import sitecustomize, so if you have it somewhere on your PYTHONPATH...)02:03
ddaaHa. Thanks, I was not aware of that.02:03
spiv_It's a bit of hack to do it that way.02:04
spiv_I think perhaps mixing configuration and code like we currently are with canonical.lp.dbname is not ideal.02:04
ddaaIt will be time to change it later if there is a need for other sitecustomize...02:04
ddaaA spiv_: sure, canonical.lp could be modified to try to load e.g. lp_config and get hostname and dbname from there if it's available in the pythonpath.02:05
ddaaspiv_: should not be very difficult to do...02:06
spiv_But the details should be debated on the launchpad list, I think.02:06
spiv_I suspect SteveA and others will have useful insights here.02:06
ddaaOkay. I'll write a message to launchpad@ right now.02:07
spiv_Another option would be to read them from environment variables.02:07
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad
ddaaAnd I'll do the sitecustomize.py thing  in the meantime.02:08
ddaa[env]  yeah, I'll suggest that too.02:08
ddaaBut I think loading a file is simpler.02:08
lifelessfile please02:08
ddaaHarder to get wrong.02:09
=== spiv_ nods
SteveAcan we use ZConfigure for everything, and have one standard launchpad.conf file ?02:13
SteveAand not lots of files for different purposes02:13
=== ddaa fears the Z ;-)
spiv_SteveA: That'd be great if every upstream package we used (e.g. Twisted, Buildbot) already used ZConfigure :)02:15
spiv_But unfortunately that's not the case.  Buildbot's config stuff is a bit of a mess, too.02:15
SteveAwhy can't *we* use ZConfigure?02:16
SteveAwe're not using any of these tools in the raw.  Can't we write our own script to start buildbot using our own config?02:16
spiv_Buildbot's a nasty case, config-wise.  It really is a bit of mess that I wouldn't want to touch without a couple of days to properly fix it.02:17
spiv_(Maybe it's been fixed in upstream SVN, though..?)02:18
spiv_Are there any good docs on ZConfigure, btw?02:18
SteveAwonderful docs02:18
lifelessI'm perfectly happy with customised lp.__init__02:18
=== SteveA -> food
lifelessand if we spend more than 10 minutes fixing it, we've already blown the cost of customising two installs 5 times over02:19
spiv_lifeless: Which is my point stated much more directly :)02:19
=== lifeless looks at the scrollback.
lifelessthats 30 minutes02:20
=== lifeless declares this discussion over. don't fix it.
spiv_SteveA: Sorry, I was fishing for a hint as to their location, rather than their existence :)02:21
KinnisonSteveA: are we having a meeting; or can I go to the post office; bank; etc. ?02:28
=== debonzi [~debonzi@] has joined #launchpad
stubddaa: The launchpad_ftest database won't exist atm. unless you use a test harness that sets it up and tears it down, such as canonical.launchpad.ftests.harness02:50
ddaastub: you are referring to my post on launchpad@?02:51
stubI'm working on a branch making this saner atm02:51
=== stub is referring to irc a few minutes ago
KinnisonOn mawson are we changing lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py to say launchpad_dogfood instead?02:51
ddaaI do not want to use launchpad_ftest02:52
ddaaI want to use a persistent database for development purpose. aka launchpad_dev.02:52
stuboh... sorry. I have test suites on my mind :-)02:52
stubYes - canonical.lp.__init__.py should not have launchpad_ftests in there.02:53
ddaaIt's a sane default to have.02:53
ddaaesp. if the db does not exist!02:53
=== Kinnison updates that file then
stubHmm... maybe. The branch I'm working on currently sets it to whatever is specified in the LP_DBNAME environment variable, or launchpad_dev if it isn't set. I'm currently bogged down in repairing unit tests though02:54
=== BradB|zzz is now known as BradB
ddaaActually, a sane default would probably be something that cause a failure if not overriden... but that's still another issue.02:54
BradBI would have changed that if it were referencing launchpad_dev, like the Makefile and ZCML were. :)02:54
=== ddaa tries hard to keep only one copy of every tree to minimize maintenance.
elmoBradB: if we're making $anotherdomain.$tld, can we use one of the existing plones, or do we need a third instance?02:55
ddaaI love "aba change-version", it's really a basic building block for my methods.02:55
lifelessddaa: raw switch02:56
ddaaWill switch ;-) as soon as I have cleared up the "asap" stuff.02:56
stubddaa: I think I'll try that (dbname=None unless overridden in lp/__init__.py) and see what happens02:56
ddaastub: => launchpad@02:57
=== SteveA returns
SteveAKinnison: we'll be having a meeting.  If you want to go to the I guess you can report first02:57
KinnisonSteveA: Okay; cool02:58
=== Kinnison is on the phone to the insurance broker right now; so I'll say the moment I can type lots
BradBelmo: I'd make another instance.02:58
stubddaa: Hehe... you chose exactly the same env variable I did (or did that patch get to rocketfuel?) :-)02:58
ddaastub: maybe that's just because it's the obvious name?02:58
elmoBradB: meh.  how would I make another instance?  I guess I can just copy most of it, but what about Data.fs ?02:58
carlosspiv_: is normal that the default database for zopeless is dbname = "launchpad_ftest" ?02:59
BradBelmo: Is this intended to be the same site just with a different name?03:00
elmoBradB: no, different site03:01
SteveAhello.  welcome to this week's launchpad meeting.03:01
BradBYeah, so bin/mkzopeinstance.py03:01
SteveAall present, please say "aye!"03:01
SteveA(old macdonald had a sheep, e i e i o) ?03:02
lifelessand on that sheep there was a farm, eieio03:02
SteveAcarlos: ?03:02
SteveAdaf sends apologies03:02
SteveAspiv_: ?03:03
SteveAto start with, a couple of announcements.03:03
SteveAI'm off on vacation from tomorrow, back on 8th03:04
SteveAMark is away at a conference in Germany, and then in South Africa, back on 8th03:04
lifeless#1 & #2 gone... 03:04
SteveAStuart has agreed to be the head launchpad dude until then.03:04
SteveALet's agree on the time and date of next week's launchpad meeting now,03:05
carlosSteveA: yes03:05
carlosI'm here03:05
SteveAhi carlos03:05
SteveAHow about Wednesday, 1230 UTC? 03:05
Kinnisonsounds good03:06
SteveAlaunchpad-brazil ?03:06
debonzino problem for me03:06
SteveAstub: ?03:06
ddaalifeless: infoImporter and infoUpdater changes sent to pqm.03:07
stubI can do that, although earlier is good if it doesn't put brazil out.03:07
debonzicprov is comming in some minutes but I think is not a problem to him to03:07
lifelessddaa: great03:07
SteveAdebonzi: 1200 ?03:07
SteveAwould 1200 be okay instead of 1230?03:08
debonziSteveA, ok too..03:08
ddaalifeless: the infoUpdater worksforme, but I have not actually tested that it did not change jobs that are not in the "unassigned" product. But that's what the code should do.03:08
SteveAok, let's so 120003:08
lifelessok, warning heard03:08
lifelesslets not confuse the lunchbox guys by interrupting too much.03:08
ddaatell me if you want additional "interactive python" support.03:08
SteveAnext, summary of the last meeting03:09
carlosSteveA: perhaps it's too early for daf03:09
SteveAit's on my todo list -- and I still haven't to-done :-/03:09
ddaa<interrupt>What's the right place to talk then?</interrupt>03:09
SteveAcarlos: daf isn't here.  so, he doesn't get a say :-p03:09
carlosok ;-)03:09
=== kiko [~kiko@200-206-134-238.async.com.br] has joined #launchpad
SteveAhi Ki03:09
SteveAhi kiko03:09
kikohello SteveA03:09
lifelessddaa: private chat to me I guess03:10
KinnisonSteveA: 1200 is okay by me03:10
SteveAKinnison: are you okay to talk yet?03:10
SteveAok.  before we start, the theme of this meeting is "dogfood"03:10
KinnisonTo that end; my primary concern is getting the librarian going on mawson03:11
kikocan it also be "soyuz is protected in an SEP field"? :)03:11
KinnisonI'm about 20 minutes off completing that :-)03:11
SteveAgo for it, Kinnison03:11
KinnisonOkay; so things I know about for dogfooding on mawson...03:12
Kinnisonlibrarian is needed -- I'm working on that now03:12
Kinnisongina -- I've got a patch floating for the build stuff; as soon as I'm told she can import against the current schema I'll polish it and commit it03:12
KinnisonGetting lucille to publish the contents of the dogfood db will take a little more work03:12
KinnisonI now have a completely published archive successfully on zhongshan03:13
Kinnisonso I need to script the publishing process and then I'll be in a position to start the publishing on mawson03:13
KinnisonBut that kinda wanders back into my expected lucille plan really03:13
KinnisonIf anyone wants me to do anything else for mawson in the short-term; can you say *NOW* please?03:13
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: transactional infoImporter, tweak infoUpdater for production use (patch-704)03:14
Kinnisondilys: thanks babe.03:14
KinnisonSteveA: right; that's about it wrt. dogfood then03:15
KinnisonSteveA: in more general terms; my plans for lucille for the coming week are...03:15
Kinnison1. Get the lucilleconfig columns populated and get the canonical.lucille.Publisher class generating apt.conf files for apt-ftparchive03:15
Kinnison2. Design the version domination algorithm (mostly stealing from katie if elmo will let me)03:16
BradBKinnison: stub probably wants to automate the code upgrade/db upgrade/data migration stuff on mawson.03:16
Kinnison3. Get domination stuff.03:16
KinnisonBradB: for the most part; that shouldn't affect me much03:16
Kinnisonoh and somewhere in there I need to split launchpad/{database,interfaces}/publishing.py into more manageable chunks and get my pending patch cleaned up to be integrated03:17
KinnisonBut that shoudl be it.03:17
kikosplitting up publishing would be appreciated, cool03:17
SteveAdomination is what was called overrides?03:18
KinnisonSteveA: No03:18
=== Kinnison will add 'domination' to the glossary
KinnisonDomination is the process by which the new version of a package ousts the older version from the archive03:18
KinnisonThis is related to it having been built cleanly on all architectures etc.03:18
=== Kinnison needs to chat with elmo about this
kikoI never heard that term. and what do you mean by ousts? becomes the new "current"?03:19
Kinnisonkiko: Yes; that's what I mean03:20
kikoI see. 03:20
Kinnisonkiko: I haven't used the term before; so you won't have heard it yet :-)03:20
kikowell, one thing that does happen is different versions of current for different architectures. does that fit in with your reasoning?03:20
KinnisonIt's all to do with the Pending,Published,Superceded,PendingRemoval state machine in the publishing tables03:21
kikoI was just lead off by your phrase "on all architectures". 03:21
KinnisonBut I fear we're getting off-topic here :-)03:22
SteveABradB: you've been forging ahead with the set-up on mawson.  Can you talk a bit about that, what people need to do, and what is still to be done?03:22
BradBI put a new code drop on mawson late yesterday03:22
BradBelmo needed to do something things for some people, and I think that's mostly (if not all) done.03:22
=== cprov [~cprov@] has joined #launchpad
BradBstub (and whoever else) need to come up with the policy for how we're going to update the code and update the db schema and do data migration03:23
BradBsome discussion was started on lp@ about this, but last i checked, no firm decision reached03:23
cprovsorry, I'm late03:23
BradBnot sure if mark wants a hand in that03:23
SteveAhi cprov03:23
BradBso, here's the problem:03:24
stubdata migration and db schema upgrades should be no problem - we went through the issues at oxford. I just need to write some fairly minor code.03:24
SteveAwe need to decide and get stuff working before mark gets back03:24
BradBoh, ok03:24
BradBso yeah, for us, the data on the dogfood server is "production" data (...goes to get link...)03:24
cprovhi, steve... did I miss something important ? (debonzi is doing a report ...)03:24
SteveAcprov: not really.  main thing is "dogfood", and making sure we can get there soon03:25
BradBIf you get a 403, you need to install the client cert.03:25
KinnisonWhere do we get the cert from?03:25
BradBIt was mailed to lp@03:25
BradBfrom elmo, with love03:25
cprovSteveA: ok03:25
=== Kinnison looks for it
BradBand um, what else03:26
BradBoh, all bugs are to be filed in malone now03:26
BradBSteveA: ^ for packages too?03:26
SteveAis malone running and ready to go?03:27
BradBit's on there, yes.03:27
stubWe appear to have the sample data loaded. Is that a good thing?03:27
BradBis it "stable" yet? no. but we still want to start asap.03:27
BradBstub: I don't think it's a bad thing.03:27
KinnisonBradB: I've imported the cert; but I still 40303:27
BradBstub: If it needs to be init'd in some other way (and it does), I don't know how to do it.03:28
carlosKinnison: restart your browser03:28
carlosKinnison: I had that problem and the restart worked03:28
Kinnisoncarlos: oh03:28
Kinnisoncarlos: you tock03:28
Kinnisoncarlos: you rock too03:29
BradBand i guess the one other thing is that it'd be nice if we could run Launchpad with bin/launchpadctl {start,stop,restart}, for which I've filed a bug.03:29
stubI suspect we want the sample data, if for no other reason all our accounts are in there.03:29
BradBI'm not in that sample data, last I checked.03:29
BradBMaybe I should add me. :)03:29
carlosstub: perhaps it's better don't use sample data and create the accounts with the script we have for that...03:30
kikoneither am I IIRC03:30
BradBanything else people need to know about the mawson deployment/03:30
kikoand I would rather not use sample data, I think03:30
BradBstub: Oh, I haven't tested your mail thing on there yet...not sure how that works "out of the box."03:31
stubok. I'll rebuild launchpad_dogfood (?) with an empty schema, in which case we need to create accounts for everyone.03:31
BradBSteveA: Are we reporting all package bugs in Malone now too then?03:31
BradBstub: yes, launchpad_dogfood03:32
SteveAwhat do you mean by "package bugs" ?03:32
BradBOh, and launchpad.u.c is the *only* dogfood app running on mawson. Rosetta alpha is intended to migrate to that instance as well.03:32
BradBSteveA: bugs in ubuntu source packages03:32
BradBafterall, we can use malone to report malone bugs, but it's not really meant for that.03:33
stubBradB: I think the email delivery is solid and dogfoodable if the nofications now have valid to and cc's being set (it was still hardcoded to you when I last played with it)03:33
SteveAI think that's mdz's call03:33
carlosBradB: will that dogfood database preserved until the final release?03:33
BradBcarlos: yes, it's definitely not intended to be blown away from today. :)03:34
stubBradB: Might be worth leaving it off though if we arn't sure - don't want to have forgotten a hardcoded 'owned=1' and spam poor Mark :-)03:34
carlosBradB: then it will be Rosetta beta :-)03:34
carlosI mean, we will move with the beta release03:34
BradBstub: yeah, that's a bug I'll have to fix soonish (and it's a bug that I don't think is only limited to Malone.)03:35
KinnisonSteveA: if I head off to the post office etc now; can you send a meeting summary to me by email?03:35
SteveAKinnison: sure -- well, I can at least manage the verbatim log.03:36
SteveAmaybe even a summary03:36
=== SteveA pings elmo
=== Kinnison -> post office and bank before they close
=== lifeless pings stevea
SteveAlifeless: pong03:37
lifeless->bazaar ?03:37
SteveAcarlos: what's been happening with rosetta.  you did a bug triage of all the open bugs.03:37
carlosSteveA: yes03:37
carloswe added times when it was possible03:38
SteveAwhat important things are left?03:38
carlosadded missing tasks03:38
SteveAdo you have an idea now of when you'll be able to start a rosetta beta?03:38
carlosat this moment I think we have three main bugs to move to a beta (so it works, but there will not be all features yet)03:39
carlosI mean, if it's needed03:39
carlosbut following the plan we have 19 bugs left03:40
SteveAand how much time for the three main bugs, in total?03:40
carlosbut as I said "critical", about 3 bugs03:40
cprovcarlos: are you using the Gina/Nicole dump ? Any remarks ?03:40
carlosI hope I will be able to fix two bugs today03:41
carlosthe later is the bigger and implies the use of cprov's data03:41
carloscprov: not yet03:41
carlosSteveA: I forgot one, there are  4 critical bugs/tasks03:41
kikocarlos, debonzi wrote a pretty neat little portlet for rosetta03:42
carlosthe one to export the user data and import it into the new dogfood database03:42
carlosSteveA: but I think we should try to fix all bugs marked as blocking the beta release03:43
carloskiko: URL?03:43
carlosor is not yet ready?03:43
debonzikiko, 03:43
kikoIIRC it's nor PQM-merged, is it debonzi?>03:44
debonzikiko, yes.. the portlet is in rocketfuel03:46
kikocarlos, look at any source package in soyuz (with translations and product/project association, which means with a full DB I believe)03:46
SteveAcarlos: I'll get you information on how to do i18n on launchpad later today03:46
SteveAthen you can start using rosetta to translate rosetta03:46
carlosSteveA: perfect03:46
BradBSteveA: i have one other thing to mention about df malone and mdz, when you're ready03:46
carloskiko: ok, I will take a look later today03:47
SteveABradB: yep03:47
BradBSteveA: yesterday mark wanted to walk mdz through malone, but unfortunately the server wasn't up and running quite in time.03:47
BradBSteveA: it will be really valuable for mdz to see it, because we want it to be used for source package bugs asap.03:48
BradBSteveA: so if it can be arranged to have someone else walk him through it, that would be good.03:48
SteveAcan you walk him through it?03:48
SteveAok, please arrange this with mdz03:48
SteveAthen, mdz can make the call as to if they can start using it03:48
carlosBradB, SteveA: When will we start using malone for launchpad's bugs?03:48
stubOur first audience is ourselves. Warthogs and ubuntu stuff follows.03:48
SteveAyou'll need to make sure mdz understands what data we're keeping and what we're not03:49
BradBSteveA: sounds good03:49
kikoI was going to say what stub said, we should move to malone before mdz does03:49
BradBcarlos: now, i think03:49
BradBcarlos: and if anything doesn't work correctly, we'll just have to fix it quickly so that it can be. :)03:49
BradBstub, kiko, SteveA: I have to admit, we may want to "harden" Malone a bit more before we go too crazy demoing it elsewhere, but Mark was ready to jump in last night. :P03:50
stubregarding that.... we want to avoid having to rollback a dogfood update unless there is a really fatal problem.03:50
carloshow are we going to handle the logins? we (rosetta) are having problems with the current authentication schema:03:51
SteveAlet's hear from launchpad-brazil about soyuz dogfooding03:52
kikothat's us03:53
kikowe're currently approaching the status where everything we touch is surrounded by an SEP field03:54
SteveAin non-douglass-adams-english ?03:54
kikoSomeone Else's Problem 03:54
kikofrom now on it's going to be a lot harder to move forward with soyuz without some guidance03:55
kikowe have one last thing to improve which is significant, which is the per-developer package listing03:55
kikowe want to include as much of packages.qa's features there without making blood come out of users' eyes03:56
kikobut then there's mainly polish to be done because we are halted on main bits that are not in our hands currently03:56
kikobuildbot and katie's successor are probably the main blockers (and the db schema changes that come with them)03:57
kikowe've started picking up the malone/rosetta integration bits because they were bothering us03:57
kikobut buildbot and katie2 (what's her name?) are a lot more involved and require some Decisions From Above03:58
kikoI believe lucille, buildbot and katie2 integration block dogfooding, to be honest, because if you can't track package uploads, approvals and builds, then, well..04:00
kikohave I said enough already? I can go on for a bit more if people like (but you know that already <wink>)04:01
SteveABradB, stub: sabdfl suggests to start with a clean-ish database04:02
stubSo these decisions from above - is this blocked until Mark can look at the issue, or do you just need feedback or work from the buildbot and katie2 people?04:02
stubcleanish... technical term?04:03
kikothere's some design work and "interfaces" that need to be done. I think it requires mark-love04:03
=== debonzi [~debonzi@] has joined #launchpad
SteveAI'll be calling Mark in 30 minutes.04:07
SteveAAre there any issues that need mark's input that I can ask him about?04:07
kikobe sure to communicate our quandary with him04:07
kikoor perhaps tell him I'd like to talk to him today as well04:08
BradBSteveA: when he wants to have warthogs using malone04:08
SteveAwhats' the quandry (I was talking with mark on the phone)04:08
kikoSteveA, do you have scrollback?04:09
BradBSteveA: it'd be nice if we could just have a few warthogs using it at first.04:09
SteveAkiko: yep.  can you give me the 10 word summary?04:09
kikosoyuz is stuck?04:09
SteveAaren't you going to get feedback from warthogs when they start using it?04:10
kikoI don't believe this has to do with end-users -- see my comments.04:10
kikowe're blocked by platform integration issues04:11
SteveABradB: mark will walk mdz though it tonight, 8UCT.  can you be there?04:15
BradBSteveA: yep04:15
SteveAand be sure malone is shiny and working first04:15
SteveAkiko: mark will give you a call04:16
kikoSteveA, thanks, I'll be here the whole day just waiting04:17
BradBstub: Are you going to add me (and whomever else) to the users in launchpad_dogfood, or should I just add myself?04:24
stubI'm not actually sure of the current way of creating users - last time it was a script in lib/rosetta/scripts04:25
BradBdaf, carlos: how do i add myself as a user?04:25
SteveAkiko: I expect he04:26
SteveAkiko: I expect mark will call you nowish04:26
carlosBradB: we have a script at lib/canonical/rosetta/scripts/createuser.py04:26
carlosBradB: not sure if it will work after all database changes, please tell me if you have any problem04:26
=== BradB wonders how that ended up there :)
carlosit has a --help argument04:26
carlosBradB: because we were the firsts :-P04:26
SteveAcan we move it somewhere better?04:26
SteveAstub:  how's the authenticated bugzilla thing going?04:27
carlosBradB: if you don't give it a password it will generate one for you04:27
carlosSteveA: any suggestion about where should we move this kind of tools?04:27
stubSteveA: Havn't looked at that. Got bogged down in crud today.04:27
kikonick kiko-fud04:27
=== kiko is now known as kiko-phone
SteveABradB, stub: when I can start filing new bugs for launchpad in malone?04:28
BradBSteveA: I need to take a look through it now (which I'm in the middle of doing) to see what needs fixing.04:30
stubI suspect it is ready to go as soon as I clear out the database04:30
BradBstub: As I mentioned on the ML, I think there's no way in heck we'll be able to do daily updates of the dogfood server though. :)04:30
BradB(just a random thought about qa on mawson)04:30
SteveAwhen it is ready, send an email to the launchpad list saying that all new launchpad bugs are to be filed in malone, and give some URLs to use.04:30
BradBsure, i'll do that04:31
=== BradB notes shiny tla bash completion
=== carlos needs to install it...
stubHmm... If I pull a copy of the production database onto dogfood it should be fairly nicely initialized04:39
BradBSteveA: the thing to be noted is that using Malone to handle Launchpad bugs is a pretty ugly hack04:39
BradBstub: Same schema?04:39
stubAfter I've run the patches it will be04:39
BradBstub: as long as no data migration is needed, it should be straightforward, I guess04:40
BradBSteveA: e.g. are rosetta, malone, and soyuz "source packages"? :)04:40
stubBradB: Not a problem - its exactly the same as upgrading the production system04:40
SteveABradB: yep -- unreleased source packages04:43
=== kiko-phone is now known as kiko
kikothanks SteveA04:48
kikoso BradB04:48
kikomark suggested we get some help on your side testing and polishing malone04:48
kikowould you be interested in an extra pair or two of hands?04:48
BradBkiko: sure04:49
kikoin the afternoon, let's talk a bit then about what you feel could be valuable04:49
kikoapart from random using and code reviewing04:49
ddaaspiv_: duh, the strports patch breaks...04:50
BradBdogfood going down momentarily...04:51
stubI've got a database to drop in place of launchpad_dogfood - can I bounce it, or do you need to Brad?04:52
spiv_ddaa: Hmm :/04:52
ddaafor some reason the slave does not seem to be able to shake hands with the botmaster when I use a strport to create the slavePort service too. I'm testing that.04:53
BradBelmo: IOError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/var/tmp/launchpad_mailqueue/tmp/1098888772.20818.rosetta' when trying to send mail from dogfood04:53
stubBradB: That queue is configured in package-includes/mail-configure-normal.zcml if the default won't work on mawson04:55
ddaaspiv_: nm, thanks for listening.04:55
BradBstub: the only data we have to keep is https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical and the three projects listed therein04:55
ddaaprogrammers editors should _not_ have a copy-paste feature!04:56
BradBif you blow it away, it'd be nice if you could readd it (which I've already done once) so that i can continue to make sure that Malone doesn't suck by the time Mark demos it04:56
=== BradB changes queue config
BradBwhat's with screen not understanding my backspace key, sheesh04:57
spiv_ddaa: No problem :)04:57
=== debonzi [~debonzi@] has joined #launchpad
stubBradB: Don't suppose you have the SQL lying around :-)04:58
BradBnah, I just save as'd and copied and pasted04:58
BradB4 pages04:59
=== BradB restarts df one more time
BradBshit, how do i make a mail dir folder again?05:02
BradBi thought there was a makemaildir command or something05:02
BradBmkdir -p q/cur q/old q/new?05:03
carlosBradB: if it's a maildir controlled by postfix, just send an email and it will create it as it should be05:04
BradBi have no idea how to do that. zope won't start because foo isn't a maildir folder05:04
BradBi don't know how to send a mail from the cmd line and say "use foo as the queue"05:05
SteveAmgedmin is on #zope3-dev05:05
BradBthere's a command called makemaildir, but mawson doesn't have it05:05
SteveAmaybe ask on there05:05
SteveAso is alga05:06
carlosBradB: then create cur, new, tmp inside the directory, it should be enough...05:06
BradBah, tmp, not old05:06
=== SteveA -> lunch
carlosSteveA: is the meeting over then?05:06
stubBradB: Why does zope want a maildir folder? It just just wants somewhere it can create a queue directory05:06
SteveAcarlos: yes I guess so :-)05:06
SteveAsorry, it was over a while ago05:07
carlosok, thanks :-)05:07
SteveAI forgot to say05:07
BradBcarlos: thanks, that worked05:07
=== BradB avoids bugging the maildir experts at PoV
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar-debian--debian--1.0: adjust for the name change tla -> baz. dont merge this changeset to a tla branch (patch-1)05:08
kikogo lifeless go05:08
BradBstub: dunno dude, but that's what the error message said queuePath needs to be05:08
stubWierd - If I saw that when I was putting it together, I've totally forgotten about it :-/05:09
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: adjust for the name change tla -> baz by making the libfoo includes dir name agnostic. dont merge this changeset to a tla branch without removing the name change aspect (patch-1)05:09
carlosdudes, I thought "thelove" was just a joke X-)05:11
=== ddaa gives a penalty card to lifeless for totally abusing the Summary.
=== lifeless holds up the literate programming mirror
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: use strports for more flexible configuration (patch-65)05:11
ddaaha... at last.05:12
ddaaspiv_: you are free to merge into rf again.05:12
BradBkiko: It's 11:18 where you are right now, right? Perhaps we could do the Malone discussion at 13:30.05:19
kikoI need about 2h, and it's now 12:18 here 05:19
kikosounds okay05:19
BradBok, cool05:19
=== debonzi is now known as debonzi|lunch
stubBradB: Can I try swapping the database now? I need to shutdown the df server to do it and don't know if I can or the preferred way05:22
KinnisonI've now got a shell script for starting the librarian05:23
BradBstub: As long as you're confident that the data is enough to bootstrap df (and you'll be able to readd the canonical project), then yes, go for it.05:23
cprovKinnison: fantastic ! can u send me 05:23
Kinnisoncprov: can what where who?05:24
stubAnd how do I do it?05:24
kikoKinnison, the shell script?05:24
cprovKinnison: script to run/start librarian :P05:24
BradBload the db? no idea, you'd know more than me about how to do that, i would have thought.05:24
BradBi can shutdown the server though right now, if you're ready05:24
Kinnison/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian/run-librarian.sh on mawson :-)05:24
stubNo - stop and start the server :-)05:24
BradBstub: ready for me to stop it then?05:25
=== cprov cprov -> lunch
BradBstub: stopped. go nuts.05:25
stubBradB: Ok - that should be fine.05:27
=== BradB restarts
stubI've still got the old db btw if it isn't suitable for demo with the prod data loaded05:27
KinnisonWhoever prods about with the db should make damned sure that the librarian and the db are kept in sync05:28
BradBhttps://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1 hah hah hah05:28
BradBstub: where the /heck/ did that bug come from? :)05:28
stubAn old joke of Marks from before I was on board... I'd forgotten about it. That will keep Mark happy :-)05:29
=== BradB does more Malone sanity checking
=== stub sets up launchpad_dogfood backups
=== kiko is now known as kiko-fud
carlosBradB: What should we do to get our account in launchad?05:38
BradBcarlos: It should already be in there.05:38
carlosBradB: the website one?05:38
carlosbecause my account from the sample data fails05:39
BradBThis is Real Data.05:39
stubKinnison: You will need to email the admins about getting the Librarian data baked up05:39
=== carlos searchs for the mail about my we account...
Kinnisonstub: I assume you're going to be doing dumps of the db to be backed up?05:39
stubYup - just doing the cron jobs now05:39
Kinnisonstub: along with that dump; put a tar of the librarian root?05:39
Kinnison(although that's 16 gigs a pop)05:40
BradBstub: when do we get all the source packages and products imported?05:40
BradBstub: I would think that would be really, really nice for when mark demoes it to mdz05:40
carlosBradB: you forgot to import languages.sql05:40
stubWhen someone runs the magic script? That is Katie isn't it?05:41
BradBcarlos: I didn't forget anything, that's stub's job. :)05:41
stubcarlos: that would be me - I mirrored the production database.05:41
carlosstub: could you do it, please?05:41
stubWhich obviously doesn't have the languages installed...05:41
carlosRosetta is useless without it05:41
BradBelmo, Kinnison: are you guys the ones to ask for getting packages and products imported into dogfood?05:42
Kinnisonit needs gina IIRC05:42
stubcarlos: done05:42
KinnisonWhich needs someone to tell me that gina can do the new schema; whereupon I'll commit my build merges05:43
carlosstub: thanks05:43
BradBcprov: ^?05:43
=== BradB hopes to have this stuff in within the next 30 mins or so
BradBI'll manually add source packages for malone, rosetta and soyuz right now, so that we can report bugs against those systems.05:45
KinnisonDo we need to ask you to create users for us?05:46
BradBKinnison: yes, where you == stub.05:47
KinnisonBradB: cunning05:47
Kinnisonstub: Can I have a user in dogfood please?05:47
stubAnyone with access to the launchpad user should be able to run rosetta/scripts/createuser.py05:48
BradBKinnison: you should already have one05:48
Kinnisonoh right05:48
=== Kinnison looks
KinnisonSo I do05:48
KinnisonI wonder what my password is05:48
stubIt is a mirror of the production database  - there are accounts there, but I don't know if the passwords are sane05:48
BradBKinnison: yep, you're already in there, i can see05:48
Kinnisonyay; the forgotten password page doesn't work though05:49
BradBKinnison: use the real one for now then05:50
BradB(real fp page, that is)05:50
BradBer, no, that won't work05:50
BradBbecause fp resets your pw05:50
BradBKinnison: off the ul.org site, i meant05:51
BradBbut anyway, it won't work :)05:51
=== Kinnison discovers how to create an encrypted pass
=== Kinnison will update via SQL :-)
stubOur first bit of successful dogfooding - well done :-)05:53
BradBstub: What's the correct way to add a source package called "malone" to LP? I'm not sure what namespaces (e.g. distro) to create, etc. to make that appear in the system in a sane way.05:54
Kinnisonw00p w00p; logged in :-)05:54
BradBA distro called Launchpad maybe?05:54
stubYou need a soyuz person me thinks05:55
BradBcprov: ping05:55
BradBkiko-fud: ping05:55
Kinnisonthe CSS is so fucked05:55
KinnisonI have bits of text changing colour as I move my mouse around05:56
dilysMerge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: s/tla/NAME in the obvious parts of the help, defining NAME as baz (patch-2)05:57
stubwhip it good05:58
BradBdarn, I really need at least a couple source packages and a couple products/product releases in LP before I can do anything useful. 06:01
=== BradB waits for kiko-fud or cprov to show up
stubBradB: distro is nullable, so I suspect you can just create a row in the Sourcepackage table for it with a corresponding entry in the SourcepackageName table.06:03
=== BradB gives it a try
BradBspiv_: ping06:14
BradBer, wait, maybe not...06:15
BradBhere's the problem:06:15
stubKinnison: I'm just emailing admins@ about bakups - have you done librarian, or can you give me a directory name and I'll add it to the same email?06:15
BradBi need products and product releases in malone, so that mark can usefully demo features to mdz that require those06:15
Kinnisonstub: /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian/ is where it'll be06:16
BradBspiv_: i was going to ask you to add products and product releases for "malone", "soyuz", and "rosetta", but that probably doesn't make sense.06:16
KinnisonIf we're done fiddling the db then I'll start the librarian running06:16
stubKinnison: We should backup the whole thing? Or is there a data directory?06:16
BradBsince having them as sp's should be enough...but in any case, we need some products/product releases in there asap, because the demo's in 2h 45m, and I've still got to test with some realish data.06:16
stubI'm done fiddling - unless Brad has a need to dump the database?06:17
Kinnisonstub: the whole thing *is* the data dir :-)06:17
Kinnisonstub: the metadata is stored in the db :-)06:17
stubI assumed the source code was in there, but of course that is in lib/canonical/librarian :-)06:17
=== Kinnison grins
BradBspiv_: where do product/product releases come from?06:18
BradBi.e. from where would that data be imported, or using which scripts?06:18
spiv_The arch guys have set up some of that for their production importd.06:19
spiv_I'll see if there's any useful production data we can snarf for this...06:20
BradBspiv_: can you arrange to have that imported into launchpad_dogfood on mawson asap, if possible?06:20
spiv_The production db has some products, but no product releases.06:21
KinnisonSo I can start the librarian then?06:21
stubKinnison: Yup06:22
BradBspiv_: can i leave it to you to somehow get sane products and product releases in there in the next 30 mins or so?06:22
BradBKinnison: what does the librarian do? i know it has something to do with serving up packages, but i'm not totally clear (does it have anything to do with getting sp's and spr's into lp_df by any chance?)06:23
Kinnisonit's running now :-)06:24
=== Kinnison workraves; brb
stubBradB: It stores all our binaries basically06:24
BradBstub: not spr's?06:25
stubBradB: Malone will want to store email attachments in there.06:25
BradBsource package release06:26
stubtarballs, iso images, whatever. All binaries and documents that don't need to live in the database.06:27
Kinnisonbasically anything where you would say "Hmm, I can't store that much data in a column" you'd use the librarian06:28
stubYou just say 'store this file and give me an id' or 'give me the url for this file' (well.. that second is a todo...). 06:28
BradBah, that's what i thought06:28
KinnisonWe're fairly close to being able to do the url thing06:28
BradBso it makes it easy to go from sqlobjects to the files related to them, presumably.06:28
KinnisonSo gina stores the debs, tarballs etc in the librarian and lucille pulls them out again for example06:28
KinnisonWell, we can go from sqlobjects to an ID; I'll try and finish the bits that will allow us to go from a LibraryFileAlias instance to a URL to a file or to the file itself06:29
BradBsounds cool06:30
KinnisonBut that is not even on my "next week's work" radar currently06:31
Kinnisonalthough if I get bored with lucille in the short-term I might take a knuthian and do it06:31
stubok - bed time for me. Am I needed for anything else?06:32
Kinnisonnot afaict06:32
ddaalifeless: job names _cannot_ contain spaces.06:32
Kinnisonstub: what timezone are you in?06:32
carlosspiv_: can we use "... AND EXISTS (nested query)" inside the select method of a sqlobject?06:32
BradBstub: looks good, thanks06:32
BradBcarlos: it's just a WHERE clause...06:32
ddaalifeless: your popen-based spawns will just blow up when given a name with spaces.06:33
carlosBradB: I suppose that's a yes :-P06:33
BradBno prob06:33
ddaaexceptions.RuntimeError: cvs -d /home/david/canonical/launchpad/botmaster/slave/buildbot-jobs/vte HEAD import.job/vte@arch.ubuntu.com/vte--MAIN--0/cvs_temp_repo init failed (256)06:33
ddaaUnknown command: `HEAD'06:33
BradBanyone have kiko's phone number?06:42
=== ddaa finds several uses of popen and system in launchpad/lib...
ddaaThese commands are so totally unsafe...06:44
BradBddaa: The commands are safe, as long as the programmers wrote safe code.06:44
lifelessddaa: hah. oops.06:45
ddaaYou can be pretty sure that 95% of the time, people using these commands will not do the quoting correctly.06:45
ddaaAnd 5% of safe code is generous imho.06:46
ddaalifeless: I'll fix it.06:46
ddaaNot sure how, but I'll do it.06:46
BradBthis is why Python really needs a taint mode. :)06:46
lifelessthe web page ui is freaking you out that much ?06:46
ddaaThat's why people using these functions needs to be beaten on the public place!06:46
BradBspiv_: how's things coming with the product imports?06:47
ddaalifeless: yes, it's freaking me out. With wrapping I can fit at least 12 jobs in a screen width. Without I can fit something like 4 jobs.06:47
=== BradB really wants the demo to kick some ass
ddaaIt's _really_ annoying.06:48
lifelesswhy do you need jobs on the screen at once ?06:48
ddaato monitor progress.06:48
spiv_BradB: There's now a release each for Soyuz, Rosetta and Malone in there.06:48
lifeless4 jobs at once will thrash your poor little laptop anyway.06:48
ddaaI'm on a desktop.06:49
lifelessbuildbot won't run more than 10 at once06:49
ddaaAnd the jobs i am running are not always contiguous in the table.06:49
lifelessjust use the pick-list.06:49
BradBspiv_: right on, thanks dude06:49
lifelessctrl-click and select the ones you want06:49
lifelessalso, the stats page is what I use, which is more compact still06:49
=== BradB fixes a bug in adding bug watches
lifelessddaa: go to /06:50
lifelessthere is a link to 'select jobs'06:50
lifelessshould help you06:50
lifelessI'm not completly tracking though, so I'm going crash.06:50
ddaaAnyway, thatNo, there is not.06:51
lifelessright now though, the UI should be ____bottom______ of your list.06:51
ddaaAnyway, that bug needs fixing, doesn't it?06:51
lifelessadd it to bugzilla.06:51
=== ddaa grinds teeth
lifelessshort term, trap them in the job loading code in canonical.arch.06:52
lifelessbecause that would be bad to be bitten by.06:52
lifelessand yes, we'll want to fix it eventually. But we have to triage: not all bugs are equal.06:53
lifelessthe hangs, for instance, are /much more/ severe because we can't work around them, cannot filter them, cannot deal with them.06:53
ddaaOkay. So you want to s/ /\ / in job names or something?06:53
ddaas/ /-/06:54
lifelessthat would be fine06:54
ddaafirst or second?06:54
ddaaless hacky06:54
ddaaless evil06:54
lifelessor s/[ ;/\\${}()] /_/06:54
ddaaadd in [] *?06:55
lifelessyeah, you see where I'm going06:55
ddaaand '"06:55
lifelessnight. my brain is toast06:55
BradBelmo: the VH'ing is screwed up on mawson:07:07
BradBhover over "bugs" in the breadcrumbs07:07
BradBnotice the ++vh++ in the link07:07
SteveAthat's normal07:11
SteveAthe breadcrumbs are broken, and shouldn't be in launchpad at the moment07:11
SteveAthe virtual hosting is working fine, no need to bother elmo07:12
SteveAthe breadcrumbs are implemented in a way that doesn't use the proper zope3 api to be aware of virtual hosting07:12
SteveAthe underlying problem is zope3's attachment to "location" in the object graph, and linking this to URLs07:13
SteveAthis part of zope3 is rather bogus07:13
SteveAI'm campaigning for it to be changed in zope3, but supporting canonical stuff is nearer the top of my todo list07:14
BradBKinnison: if i restart DF does that affect you in any way?07:21
BradBSteveA: maybe it's the "and linking this to URL's part" that smells.07:22
BradBi would have thought that anything that knows how to make a URL from a location should know if I'm a VH.07:22
SteveAthe point is we're not using locations07:22
SteveAlocations are supposed to be optional in zope307:23
SteveAnormal python code doesn't use locations07:23
SteveAjust the zope3 pseudo-content-management system07:23
SteveAthat is __name__ and __parent__07:23
KinnisonBradB: If you restart the launchpad instance the librarian is fine07:23
KinnisonBradB: if you want to fuck with the db then you may have to kill/restart the librarian07:24
SteveAI want to have a proper think about this, and implement the right solution for dealing with virtual hosting.  I can't do this until I get back from vacation.07:24
SteveAmeanwhile, either turn breadcrumbs off, or hack it into working somehow07:24
SteveAbut, don't embark on major architecture (like making all our stuff "locations" in the zope3 sense)07:24
BradBSteveA: so I make myself placeful by implementing IContained?07:24
SteveAplease don't do that07:24
BradBno, I wouldn't, but I'm curious07:25
SteveAthat's biting off the zope3 locations crack07:25
SteveAand I don't want us to go there07:25
BradBI just meant in "normal" Zope 3 development, would that be how I'd do it?07:25
SteveAkind of07:25
SteveAthat's part of it07:25
SteveAusing zope3 containers for everything would sort it out for you07:25
BradBbut we won't be doing that :P07:25
BradBok, so maybe this won't suck when you get back from sicily07:26
SteveAyeah.  I will be bringing my laptop and archives on vacation07:26
SteveAI don't promise to do anything with them, though07:26
SteveAthe virtual hosting / urls / etc. stuff touches more than just breadcrumbs07:27
SteveAso I do want to get it right.07:27
SteveAbut, I think I might end up checking out my thoughts with Jim, and possibly tweaking parts of zope307:27
SteveAthere's already one relevent tweak in the pipeline, to make our use of suburls and traversal cleaner.07:28
SteveAbut, i need to talk to jim further about it07:28
SteveA(we discussed it at length in vienna)07:28
BradBoh shit07:29
BradBi hope this:07:29
BradBgpg: no default secret key: bad passphrase07:29
BradBgpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: bad passphrase07:29
BradBNull message body; hope that's ok07:29
SteveAwhen we've got dogfood well and truely going, I'll see if mark will give me a few days to get some zope3 stuff done that will make our future easily07:29
BradBdoesn't start a pqm loop07:29
BradBSteveA: cool07:29
SteveAI guess if gpg failed, pqm won't do anything at all07:29
spiv_BradB: No, pqm will just reject it.07:29
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fixed the statistics update script. It's not finished, See bug #1975 for more info (patch-705)07:29
BradBPQMException! w00t.07:30
=== BradB retries
SteveAspiv_: ping ping07:30
spiv_pong pong.07:30
SteveAwhat are you up to at the moment?07:30
SteveAyou missed the meeting today07:30
=== Kinnison goes to have his dinner
SteveAspiv_: look in launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/ZConfig/doc for ZConfig docs07:32
SteveAthere's a comprehensive manual on using and extending it07:32
spiv_I'm about to sink my teeth into some DOAP work, now that the arch guys don't have anything else they need from me.07:32
SteveAI'd like you to make it so we can specify the database to use in launchpad.conf 07:33
spiv_Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.07:33
spiv_I'll take a look, thanks.07:33
SteveAok, please do it soon07:34
SteveAI don't want random configuration settings to appear in zcml or random python files.07:34
SteveApragmatically, we need to do this now for buildbot07:34
SteveAbut it should not stay that way.07:34
SteveAI'd also like you to make launchpad look for launchpad.conf.in before launchpad.conf07:35
SteveAso, we can provide a default launchpad.conf.in, but it can be overridden with launchpad.conf07:35
spiv_Right.  Buildbot is probably the worst-case here; the configuration stuff it already has is ugly and requires a fair bit of surgery to the code to fix.07:36
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fixed adding bugtrackers (patch-706)07:38
BradBSteveA: by the way, i want to announce launchpad-dogfood today. could you clarify who are the intended users right now, who should be using the dogfood app, and what for?07:38
SteveAspiv_: file bugs please!  (perhaps even in malone...)07:39
SteveAthe launchpad team should be using it for bug tracking.07:39
SteveAother users are to be decided, after you and mark and mdz get together tonight07:39
spiv_Ok, I'll start poking bugs into the dogfood malone :)07:40
BradBSteveA: he'll be on IRC, presumably?07:41
BradBspeaking of which, i'm supposed to be discussing Malone with kiko 10 minutes ago :)07:41
SteveAat whatever time I mentioned earlier07:41
dilysBug 2087 resolved: initZopeless patch07:42
SteveABradB: will spiv_ be able to file the "use zconfig for launchpad database conf" bug in malone? 07:42
BradBSteveA: not yet, there's no launchpad source package07:42
BradBhe could go in and add one manually in the absense of the soyuz guys, like i did earlier07:43
=== BradB thinks Malone looks pretty sane on mawson now
=== lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #launchpad []
BradBSteveA: i can patch plone (CC) now...i was just taking a few minutes now to figure out what i'm doing by applying that patch08:13
SteveABradB: hold off on that please08:14
BradBSteveA: is this an attempt to try and force ssl all the time?08:14
SteveAI'm sorting out cacheing properly at the moment08:15
BradBoh, ok08:15
SteveAelmo thinks it is crackful to run ssl for all authenticated users08:15
SteveAwe'll burn gentoo up ;-)08:15
kiko-fudBradB, yes?08:15
BradBkiko-fud: two things:08:15
BradBthreeish, actually08:16
BradB1. we need packaged imported into launchpad-dogfood asap (demo in 45 mins)08:16
BradB2. I added a package for "malone" without a distro right now. Not sure if you guys have a more sane way to do this, but we need packages in the right places called "malone", "rosetta", and "soyuz"08:17
kiko-fudsource packages? or products?08:17
BradB3. I thought we were going to meet 45 minutes ago to discuss Malone. :P08:17
BradBkiko-fud: source packages...if you can do products too, sure, but i thought that was spiv_ 08:17
kiko-fudI took too long, we're buying some SCSI hard drives but it's challenging to get right.08:17
kiko-fudBradB, well, hmmmm. you've got a minor problem there08:18
kiko-fudour "mass package imports" are done today via Gina08:18
BradBdoes gina work with the new schema?08:18
kiko-fudthat's with Kinnison, he said that *was* happenning08:18
BradBkiko-fud: he was blocked by you guys08:19
BradBwanting to know if gina worked with the new schema08:19
cprovBradB: pong08:19
=== debonzi|lunch is now known as debonzi
kiko-fudKinnison was blocked by *us*?08:20
=== Kinnison nods
=== Kinnison isn't familiar with all of gina; so I figured someone who wrote it would be a better person to get it up-to-speed with the new schema
BradB[11:43]  <Kinnison>Which needs someone to tell me that gina can do the new schema; whereupon I'll commit my build merges08:22
=== Kinnison has only been patching bits to make it work better with the new lucille-related tables
BradBwe've got 37 minutes :)08:23
BradBer, maybe 1h 37m08:23
kiko-fudoh, I see08:23
=== BradB runs date -u again
kiko-fudwell, we were until now blocked on gina 08:23
kiko-fudhowever cprov now has access to is08:23
kiko-fudcan someone fill me in on what "new schema" means?08:24
KinnisonI think there are some sourcepackage changes08:24
Kinnisongina barfs about not filling out a column which is NOT NULL08:24
Kinnisonor something08:24
kiko-fudis that all? getting gina to run?08:27
kiko-fudstub, are names with underscores forbidden?08:27
=== BradB tries to found out the revision of lp running on df; no idea how to do that with tla
kiko-fudtla status -v ? :-P08:28
kiko-fud(it's a joke if you don't read me)08:28
kiko-fuddoes anyone know why valid_name craps out on underscores?08:28
BradBkiko-fud: IF name IS NULL OR name SIMILAR TO \'^[a-z0-9] [a-z0-9\\+\\.\\-] +$\' THEN08:29
=== BradB gets on all fours to try and get tla to tell me the tree revision
kiko-fudBradB, oh, I can read the regexp, I just want to know *why* it craps out on underscores.08:30
BradBif you're going to have tla tree-version, then tla tree-revision better Just Work08:30
kiko-fudI would assume underscores were valid names.08:30
kiko-fudcprov, how about we modify all underscores to hyphens?08:31
BradBkiko-fud: oh, you mean why the programmer disallowed them..08:31
cprovkiko-fud: ok08:31
kiko-fudBradB, no promises on that hard deadline, because honestly, gina takes a long time to run.08:31
kiko-fudoh ffs08:31
kiko-fudsome dork took kiko08:32
KinnisonBradB: what *is* the tree revision though?08:32
KinnisonOh yeah; gina is going to need multiple-architecture loving at some point08:32
kiko-fudyes, I know that part08:33
BradBKinnison: good point, heh08:33
kiko-fudBradB, if you just want 3 packages, then you'll need to poison the sampledata08:38
kiko-fudwhat's it going to be?08:38
BradBkiko-fud: we don't use sample data08:38
kiko-fudwell, "sample data", does that help?08:38
kiko-fudgiven that malone, soyuz and rosetta don't have debian packages and therefore don't live in katie08:39
=== cprov -> increasing memory
BradBkiko-fud: there's no poisoning, i meant that i needed someone who knows soyuz do go in there by hand and add them in a sane way (e.g. possibly creating a distro for them, etc.)08:39
BradB"by hand" i.e. via the UI08:40
kiko-fudyou can't create packages using the soyuz interface.08:40
kiko-fudit's not meant to be used that way08:41
BradBoh, hm08:41
kiko-fudpackages go into the system via a complicated upload process that only Kinnison understands <wink>08:41
BradBthen i guess "by hand" means via SQL08:41
kiko-fudthat can be done08:41
kiko-fudthe fact that cprov left must mean that debonzi is our only hope :)08:41
kiko-fudso you want help there so we can report bugs on these packages, is that is?08:41
kiko-fudthere's some information we need to guess08:41
kiko-fudsuch as the source package release version08:41
kiko-fudand the related binary packages08:41
kiko-fudetc :)08:41
BradBwow, tla logs seems badly broken08:42
BradBtla logs -h says:08:42
BradBusage: tla logs [options]  [[archive] /version ...] 08:42
BradBbut somehow:08:42
BradBbradb@oxygen:~/launchpad/lp$ tla logs -A rocketfuel@canonical.com launchpad--devel--0 | tail -108:42
BradBmadness. pure madness.08:43
kiko-fudit just lists the patch #?08:43
BradByeah, that's what i wanted though08:43
BradBcan't find that out on mawson though08:43
kiko-fudwho did the checkout?08:43
BradBkiko-fud: i'm asking there "what's the last patch i've applied from the rocketfuel version blah--blah--0?"08:44
BradBkiko-fud: me, locally. you can't do checkouts on mawson.08:44
BradBi'm not interested in putting my private keys on mawson, anyway :)08:44
BradBbut, i think i might have since star-merged, hmph08:44
kiko-fudso you rsynced your mirror and then checkout?08:44
BradBi did a build-config, tarballed and scp'd it up to mawson08:45
=== BradB checks something
BradBkiko-fud: the last db patch is patch-3-12-0.sql08:46
BradBer, wait08:46
BradByeah, that's the last one08:47
kiko-fudBradB, debonzi can probably do the DB hack for you08:50
debonzihi BradB, can I help with something?08:50
kiko-fudBradB, explain what you need more or less in details08:50
=== kiko-fud is now known as kiko_bz
BradBbtw, the demo's at 20:00 UTC08:51
BradBdebonzi: we need to be able to file bugs in malone for launchpad08:52
BradBdebonzi: malone is written to cater to open source linux software i.e. packages, products, etc.08:52
BradBdebonzi: so, for dogfooding purposes, we're going to shoehorn the ability to file lp bugs in malone by reported them against "unreleased packages" called "launchpad", "malone", "rosetta", and "soyuz" (unless there are better names)08:53
BradBi've already added malone, but I need you to:08:53
BradB1. review that the way i added malone in the db is sane.08:53
BradB2. add the other three08:53
BradBby "added malone" i mean "added malone as a sourcepackage"08:54
kiko_bzdebonzi, do you have access to mawson?08:55
debonzikiko_bz, I need to check08:55
debonziBradB, right.. so what you need is add in sample data malone, soyuz, rosetta?08:56
debonzias sourcepackages08:56
BradBand launchpad08:57
BradBmalone's already added, but i need you to verify that i did it in a sane way08:57
debonziBradB, right.. I do that right now08:57
debonziBradB, no problem08:57
debonzikiko_bz, mawson ask me for password08:58
BradBelmo: ^08:58
debonzikiko_bz, do I need it now?08:58
BradByes please08:59
elmohe didn't have an account, fixed08:59
debonziyes, I am there09:00
BradBsudo -u launchpad -s09:00
BradBpsql launchpad_dogfood09:00
kiko_bzor bash to make it easier09:00
BradBthose are the commands debonzi needs :)09:00
kiko_bzI mean09:01
kiko_bzsudo -u launchpad bash09:01
kiko_bzgives him a launchpad shell09:01
kiko_bzfrom which he can pg_dump or psql as much as he likes09:01
BradBso does -s :)09:01
kiko_bzoh that's the -s09:02
BradBwell, it gives him a $SHELL09:02
kiko_bzI was thinking it's one of those useless options09:02
elmoalways either use -s or do 'sudo su - launchpad' instead09:02
BradBkiko_bz: heh heh09:02
debonziBradB, did you add launchpad as a distribution?09:03
BradBelmo: by the way, can you make it so that i can sudo -u zope -s on gentoo without typing my p/w every time?09:03
BradBdebonzi: nope09:03
BradBdebonzi: i'm leaving that to you guys to best decide how it fits into soyuz.09:03
kiko_bzdebonzi, but is launchpad a distro?09:03
debonziBradB, no it isn't09:04
debonziBradB, but it is there09:04
BradBsomebody else added it then. the data in there is a dump of the prod db.09:04
BradBer, wait09:05
debonziBradB, ok.. Ill leave like it for now09:05
BradBgargh, yeah that was me starting to do it through the UI before stub suggested i could mod the tables directly09:05
BradBthe lp distro can be removed09:06
debonziBradB, ok09:06
elmoBradB: meh09:08
BradBok, maybe not09:08
SteveAelmo: please add "meh" to the ProjectGlossary09:16
=== justdave [~dave@] has joined #launchpad
=== ddaa adds this to Quote-
BradBSteveA: heh heh09:23
BradBkiko_bz: when you're ready to talk about malone, i've got in mind something that would be really useful for you guys to work on09:24
=== Kinnison -> London
debonziBradB, this db is going to be used only for malone or this that should be also available for the other aplications?09:31
=== cprov [~cprov@] has joined #launchpad
BradBdebonzi: it's a real, live launchpad instance, so for all apps09:34
BradBwe're the only ones using it though09:34
BradBwe == lp devs09:34
=== cprov announces gina just finnish on mawson
debonziBradB, am asking because a sourcepackage lives in a distrorelease, so if this data should be used for soyuz for example the db should have a distro and distrorelease at least09:35
cprovKinnison: ping09:35
BradBdebonzi: the intent is that you guys (or cprov and kiko_bz...whoever's involved in that) will import all the "real" data we need to make soyuz look sane.09:36
debonziBradB, at least for malone sourcepackages launchpad, soyuz, rosetta and malone should be available... do you have a way to check?09:36
BradBi'll check09:37
debonziBradB, right..09:37
Kinnisoncprov: I'm about to go to London09:37
BradBdebonzi: yep, they're there. thanks dude.09:37
debonziBradB, so I beliave I need to wait the "real" data to be there and than publish this packages "by hand"09:37
Kinnisonkiko_bz: sabdfl and I have agreed that I'll take on gina. I'll chat with you tomorrow about it09:37
=== Kinnison has to go now
=== Kinnison has a dead server to revive
=== Kinnison -> London
cprovKinnison: can you send me instruction to run librarian ?09:38
BradBKinnison: how low-tech is that!09:38
debonziBradB, you are welcome.. if something is missing or you want to change, just ask for09:38
BradBdebonzi: depends...what does "publishing" a package mean? adds it to a certain distro?09:39
debonziBradB, yes.. we can say that09:42
BradBdebonzi: so you plan to have a distro for m/s/l/r?09:43
BradBwe probably shouldn't09:44
BradBunless we should09:44
debonziBradB, if they should be available in soyuz (and I think they do) yes.. but it will probably be done later09:44
BradBi dunno, maybe that'll make some things easier to look at in the UI if they belong to a distro09:45
kiko_bzKinnison, that's cool, I'm on it09:48
BradBspiv_: do you do nicole?09:50
BradB(pun intended)09:50
!alindeman:*! Hi all! Interested users from Poland: #linux.pl is a channel for Polish Linux users created for support and general Linux discussion. Stop by if you'd like.09:55
cprovBradB: what is up w/ nicole ?09:59
BradBcprov: i just wanted to know what to tell mark if he wants to know when gina and nicole will have been run on launchpad_dogfood10:00
cprovBradB: ok, in few words:  gina will agregatte new sources on a given distro, nicole will add project/product{series/release} for them10:03
BradByeah, i know what they do (i think), but i just wanted to know when all the "real" projects, products and source packages will be brought in.10:04
kiko_bzBradB, this is ugly. I imagine a launchpad distribution could solve problems temporarily -- that is, if it's okay to move bugs to a new package in another distro when we make up our minds :)10:04
kiko_bzBradB, however, this is crack -- doesn't malone track bugs in non-packages?10:04
BradBkiko_bz: that's why i added the launchpad distro earlier.10:04
kiko_bzyes, I realize but see my question.10:05
BradBkiko_bz: a bug is just a bug10:05
kiko_bzwhen.. what's the big deal about with soyuz packages? :)10:05
BradBbugs can be assigned to products and packages10:05
BradBkiko_bz: so that it looks a little more real (well, a lot more real) when sabdfl demoes it to mdz10:05
BradBwhich happens 6 minutes ago10:06
BradBor not, i guess10:06
kiko_bzBradB, but come on, soyuz *isn't* a package, mdz wouldn't be impressed. he would if you displayed gcc-3.3 :)10:06
kiko_bzdon't we have a bugzilla importer going?10:07
kiko_bzwe could import some upstream bugs related to a package we *do* have in ubuntu10:07
BradBkiko_bz: and, well, dude, it's hard for rosetta to dogfood without packages to translate.10:08
BradBbecause the rosetta alpha is, of course, moving into the DF10:08
cprova bugzilla importer will rock !!! real bugs for real packages <wink>10:08
kiko_bzjustdave, what's the story on the bugzilla importer?10:08
kiko_bzBradB, what's wrong with translating xchat? :)10:09
kiko_bzwe could pull xchat bugs and use xchat packages and translate it too.10:09
justdavekiko_bz: it's not actually an importer, it's a watcher.10:09
kiko_bzah, I see.10:09
justdaveyou file a bug in Malone, then tell it it's an upstream bug and give it which bug system and the bug number10:10
justdavethen it queries the upstream bug for the status periodically and will tell you in malone what the upstream status is10:10
kiko_bzjust status. not comments?10:10
=== mdz_ [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #launchpad
debonziBradB, so, I already created one distro, distrorelease and now the are in ubuntu/warty... so probably you can see then in soyuz too10:11
SteveAspiv_: ping?10:14
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad
SteveAspiv_: never mind10:20
sabdflhi all10:20
SteveAsabdfl: simon has come up with a way that should work to get decent names in RecentChanges10:20
sabdflwhat was the trick?10:20
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
SteveAit isn't fixed yet.  a wiki page stores the text of who edited it.  we just need to get the name rather than the id and store that.10:22
SteveAthe name will be available, we're just not sure where. 10:22
SteveAplone is now serving up correct-looking cacheing headers10:22
sabdflcool, please thank vika10:23
sabdfldid i meet vika in vilnius?10:23
SteveAbut for as yet unknown reasons, our apache isn't cacheing it10:23
sabdflbad injun10:23
SteveAno, because vika lives in israel at present10:23
SteveAvika's apache is cacheing it on her machine10:23
kiko_bzhey sabdfl10:23
SteveAit is unclear what is different10:23
sabdflhiya kiko_bz10:24
sabdflyou feeling a little pressured?10:24
kiko_bzsomebody took over kiko today, I don't feel like nickserving them to death though10:24
sabdflthat's your story, is it?10:24
sabdflchatted with kinnison after he landed10:24
sabdfli landed10:25
kiko_bzsort of. sabdfl, we were discussing the immediate issue of the demo of malone with soyuz combo10:25
sabdflhe figures to have mawson up to speed with gina data this week, in collaboration with cprov10:25
kiko_bzwe finally are getting gina to run again10:25
BradBsabdfl: hi. malone dogfood should be ready to rock10:25
sabdflBradB: !10:25
kiko_bzthere's an interesting question which is: do soyuz, rosetta and malone belong to a distribution?10:26
sabdfllet drums roll...10:26
sabdflmdz round?10:26
mdzsabdfl: yep10:26
=== mdz tries to contain his excitement
sabdflbradb has something to show you10:26
sabdflshould we do the walkthrough from irc in this channel, or somewhere else?10:26
SteveAit would be good for the soyuz team to watch,perhaps10:27
BradBoh, ok10:27
mdzmakes no difference to me10:27
cprovsabdfl: gina runs on mawson, nicole probabily too ... I'm waiting to work with Kinnisson to have lucile and librarian support10:27
BradBi was going to do it in #malone-dogfood, but we can probably just do it here10:27
BradBmdz: you'll need the client cert installed, if you don't have it installed already10:27
mdzBradB: I have it10:28
sabdflso let's go straight into malone10:28
BradBok, so shall we start?10:28
mdz"the" client cert?  you mean I didn't get my very own? *pout*10:28
cprovSteveA: how to get the client cert ?10:28
kiko_bzcprov, it went via email from elmo10:28
kiko_bzcprov, see your launchpad archive10:28
BradBcprov: launchpad.p12 to lp@10:29
kiko_bzsave it into a file and then import it into a browser10:29
mdzBradB: where do I start?10:29
kiko_bzEdit/Preferences/Advanced/Security/Certificates on the browser10:29
BradBmdz: malone10:29
kiko_bzFF at least10:29
BradBmdz: we can pretty much go top to bottom through what's listed there10:29
mdzok, I'm there10:29
BradBok, so i'll let you do the actual adding and stuff10:30
BradBmdz: so first off, click "Create a new bug report."10:30
mdzauthentication dialog10:30
BradBmdz: enter your user/pass10:31
mdzwhich one would that be?10:31
sabdflbradb: did we pull the data from the production db?10:31
BradBmdz: it's the dump from prod10:31
sabdflfor auth?10:31
BradBsabdfl: yes10:31
sabdflworks for me!10:31
sabdflmdz: the same as your website access10:31
BradBmdz: by the way, you already know the basic ideas behind malone, right?10:32
mdzok, worked10:32
sabdflin fture we'll use a cookie auth system10:32
sabdflso the authentication will look neater10:32
mdzBradB: I hope so, assuming the spec reflected my input :-)10:33
BradBoh good, wasn't there. :)10:33
sabdflmdz: baby steps, but keep going10:33
BradBmdz: okay, so you can go ahead and enter a bug10:33
mdzshall I fill this out and submit a bug?10:33
sabdflfile that as a bug on malone10:33
sabdflthe cookie auth thing10:33
BradByou need to choose a source package too, I think, which will be malone, of course10:34
mdzaw, no source package for ubuntu? :-)10:35
mdzok, bug #5 created10:35
cprovBradB: sourcepackage link  crashes :(10:35
BradBcprov: not sure what you're referring to10:36
BradBmdz: okay, so next up, you can go back to the main malone screen, just for kicks10:36
BradBi.e. the malone tab10:36
BradBthe "See the complete bug list"10:36
BradBthen your bug10:36
cprovBradB: simple, access https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/soyuz/distros/ubuntu/src/warty/soyuz10:36
sabdflwe have some suprt project/product/package selection widgets under development10:36
mdzthe 'show bugs you created' defaults to showing all bugs created by everyone10:37
BradBcprov: oh, dude, that's soyuz...no idea there. :)10:37
mdzBradB: yep, works10:37
BradBmdz: ok, any questions first about what you're seeing?10:37
BradBabout what bits mean what, or what they might be used for?10:37
BradBif not, we'll start using them10:37
mdzBradB: the comment bit has two text input widgets10:38
mdzbut they aren't labeled10:38
mdzsubject and body?10:38
BradBmdz: yeah, that sucks, we'll file the bug when we're done10:38
BradBanything else?10:38
kiko_bzyes, I had seen that10:38
cprovBradB: ok, we'll  find10:38
mdzBradB: I'm fiddling10:38
sabdflcomments are still undecided10:38
kiko_bzdidn't I file that bug already? hmmm10:39
sabdflw.r.t. threading etc10:39
mdzBradB: what level of feedback are you looking for?10:39
mdzBradB: e.g., we need a couple of additional statuses10:39
BradBmdz: i just wanted to know if you had any questions about the UI you're seeing before i should you the rest of it10:39
mdzBradB: will there be an enhanced selection mechanism for the assignee?10:39
BradBmdz: i sure hope so :)10:40
mdzcurrently it seems to be a combobox with every person in it10:40
BradBi think limi's onit10:40
BradBsabdfl: is he?10:40
mdzBradB: bug watch = link to an external bug?10:40
BradBmdz: watch the bug as reported on a bugzilla somewhere10:40
BradBsee its status over there10:40
sabdflyes, we'l have better selection widgets for person, product, package, project10:40
BradBmdz: bugzilla is the only supported thing to watch right now. i can show you later the interface to where you register those.10:41
mdzBradB: what's the difference between the "add an infested" widgets on the left, and the "add package" and "add product" in the middle?  do they do the same thing?10:41
BradBmdz: no, here's the diff:10:41
sabdflassignment vs infestation10:42
BradBmdz: "packages" and "products" and a general idea, not referring to any specific release, but rather as a way of saying to the maintainer of the package "hey, there's a bug, do something about it"10:42
sabdflwork-to-do vs versions-affected10:42
BradBthat's the most amazingly succint way to put it :)10:42
mdzshouldn't an affected-version imply work-to-do?10:42
sabdflwe could put that into the process10:42
sabdflif you said it affects that version, we can automatically add the assignment too10:43
BradBmdz: work-to-do ends up in infested versions, usually10:43
mdzwhat is the intended workflow?10:43
sabdflwhatever works10:43
mdzso I've submitted a bug and tied it to malone10:43
BradBmalone's a bad example :)10:43
sabdflexcept your bug has nothing to do with malone dude, it's YOUR bug, not mine :-)10:43
mdzlet's pretend malone is packaged in Ubuntu :-)10:43
sabdflall wrong10:44
BradBmdz: it's still early on: but basically:10:44
sabdflhoary is a release of ubuntu, a product in the ubuntu project10:44
BradB1. you assign the bug to sourcepackage gcc-3.310:44
BradB2. gcc-3.3 guy sees it10:44
=== ddaa [~ddaa@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #launchpad []
BradBsabdfl: now 3. does gcc-3.3 guy add the infestations? the UI's going through puberty right now, so i'm not totally clear.10:45
BradBmdz: (because infestations will be automated eventually)10:45
mdzI should sit down and flowchart this out, really10:45
mdzbased on what we've done so far in bugzilla10:45
BradBmdz: needless to say, we've had no real use of malone, so we haven't found out if our workflow sucks or not10:46
sabdflguys, have a guest, back in an hour or two10:46
mdzBradB: right, we'll want to fold the real-world experience we've had into the workflow model10:47
BradBmdz: i think other people should be allowed to come in and add the infestations actually. anyone who sees that that bug exists in a certain release10:47
BradBmdz: in fact, a lot of people may have to add infestations10:47
mdzBradB: ah, so the difference is that the infestations are versioned?10:48
BradBmdz: infestations describe how a bug affects a particular release10:48
BradBmdz: e.g. "affected" is obvious. "dormant" means, "in this release, but we're not using the bit of the code that shows it"10:48
BradBmdz: "victimized" means "not our fault, but we're getting blamed for this bug in your package anyway!"10:49
mdz"it's your bug, but it breaks my package"10:49
BradBwhereas the product/source package (i.e. non-version) "assignments" are simply a way of getting this bug in the face of the people that need to know about it10:50
BradBand, as you'll not in the UI, each of those individuals or teams then decide the severity and priority of the bug on their own10:50
mdzyeah, I remember this from the data model10:50
SteveAsabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/recentchanges10:51
BradBmdz: anything stand out at you straight away that prevents warthogs from reporting bugs with this?10:51
mdzBradB: what is your name for the items which are listed  in the middle table (upstream/package, state, sev, pri, assignedto)?10:51
mdzwhat is each row in that table called?10:52
BradBeither a product assignment or a source package assignment; they've been aggregated into one table now10:52
mdzso an 'assignment'10:52
BradBer, one *listing* in the UI that is10:52
BradBtwo tables in the DB, of course10:52
mdzso we can think of that as "this is what needs to be done in order to close this bug"10:52
mdzand the infestations as "this is where the bug has been observed"10:53
BradBmdz: or "the maintainers of these packages and products" have to do something about fixing this bug (for assignments)10:53
BradBmdz: and yes, that's correct for infestations10:53
mdzBradB: thinking about it, it would be nice to be able to attach a little note to each of those10:54
BradBfor a liberal definition of "observed" (e.g. in the case of victimization)10:54
mdzeach assignment10:54
mdzto be used as a todo list10:54
BradBhm, i guess it would10:54
mdzpackage X needs this change, package Y needs a different change10:54
BradBgood point10:54
mdzthe table would provide a very nice overview that way10:54
mdzphone call, just a moment10:55
mdzhmm, they hung up. never mind\10:56
BradBmdz: notifications are working on almost all the adds and edits currently, but i've left it in test mode until we fix an ownership bug. until then i'm the only one receiving the notificaiton emails.10:58
mdzBradB: are you familiar with how our bugzilla is set up?10:58
BradBmdz: nope10:59
mdzthat might help to understand our existing workflow10:59
mdzok, we have a bugzilla instance, with an Ubuntu product, and a component for every package in the distributio10:59
mdzwhen bugs are filed, they get assigned to a dummy user (because we don't know who will be fixing them yet)10:59
mdzcopies of all bug traffic is sent to a central mailing list10:59
mdzI read that mailing list in order to triage bug reports as they come in, and to keep up with the conversations going on in individual bugs11:00
mdzwhen a bug comes in, it either gets a request for more information (if incomplete), or assigned to someone to fix11:00
mdzor sometimes it won't be assigned right away, because we're not yet sure what to do about it11:01
mdzthe assignee will generally either debug the problem interactively with the submitter, fix it with an upload, or forward it upstream11:01
mdzbugs which are waiting for information from the submitter, or forwarded upstream, are sorted later in their todo list11:01
mdzthey will check back from time to time, but for the moment, the bug is someone else's problem11:02
mdzwe don't use bugzilla's NEW/ASSIGNED distinction, at least not consistently, but that's mostly because it's annoying to use11:02
mdzif the process of fixing the bug involves more than one step, all hell breaks loose, and we can't really represent that in bugzilla, so we scribble notes11:03
mdze.g., if multiple packages need changes11:03
mdzsometimes, a bug will be fixed for us by an upstream (mostly Debian)11:03
mdzin that case, we queue an import of the fixed version of the package, and make a notation on the bug11:04
mdzlikewise if we upload a fix of our own11:04
mdzwe put the bug in a PENDINGUPLOAD state11:04
mdzwhich indicates that we've dealt with it (lower on the todo list), but that it's still actually present in the distribution (not closed yet)11:04
mdzmuch of the awkwardness in the workflow, which we hope can be addressed with malone, results from the fact that bug tracking systems have different types of users with different needs11:05
mdzmost obviously the user and the developer11:05
BradBmalone is meant for developers11:05
BradBwe leave user-handling to issue trackers11:06
elmosay what?11:06
mdzBradB: a key interface point where users do need to interact with the bug tracking system is finding a bug11:06
mdzand interacting with the developer in collecting information, debugging, etc.11:08
mdzI could see building an issue tracker to handle the latter case11:08
BradBer, in this situation though, "users" are really "developers"...malone is meant to deal with "developers" (or people who are otherwise involved in open source, and have a really good idea of what they're doing) and "maintainers" (people who fix and improve things, based on what the former group is reporting.)11:08
elmomalone is going to need to deal with users - period11:09
BradBelmo: with suzy secretary, nope it doesn't.11:09
elmowhat the hell is suzy secretary?11:09
mdzAKA "Jeff's Mum"11:09
elmobradb: hell yes it does11:10
BradBelmo: dude, trust me, it doesn't.11:10
elmoif you want it to be of any use to a distro team11:10
kiko_bzBradB, what version of the code are you running?11:10
mdzBradB: it is a fact of life that in many cases, the person on the other end of a bug report isn't a developer-type11:10
BradBi'm just relaying sabdfl's objectives, but if you think it should also be an issue tracker, you can ask him about that11:10
elmoBradB: dude, don't go all Arch developer on us11:10
mdzhe and I have discussed it, and I support the idea of a separate issue tracker11:11
BradBelmo: ^ :)11:11
mdzbut that's a separate issue from users interfacing with malone11:11
elmoBradB: you have the distro team leader telling you he needs something: "no, you don't" is a good Tom Lord answer, not so good for Launchpad11:11
mdzBradB: here's a real-world scenario that happens all the time.  A user has a hardware-related bug, which is only reproducible on their system or a similar one11:11
BradBmdz: ok, what are you seeing malone needs to have to be able to be used by the warthogs?11:11
mdzBradB: we need to connect that user with the kernel maintainer and do some back-and-forth to isolate the bug11:12
BradBelmo: or, to put it more accurately, i'm just relaying the stated goals of launchpad, as per mark's specification11:12
BradBmdz: yeah, malone is meant for those people, i think11:12
mdzBradB: then another user comes along and has the same problem11:13
mdzBradB: they need to get into the mix, see if their bug really is the same, and participate in testing fixes, etc.11:13
BradBmdz: sure11:13
mdzan issue tracker provides a nice mapping from user problems to bugs11:13
kiko_bzBradB, elmo and mdz are right, though. a bugtracker should be usable by end-users, because that's a large part of the fun of participating in OSS (people pay attention to you)11:13
mdzbut once they follow that link, they will be part of the bug life cycle11:14
kiko_bzit also provides a structured way of storing this information, which is essential to making heads or tails of it later.11:14
mdzanyway, this is getting a bit handwavy11:14
BradBkiko_bz: i think the main point here is the confusion about what the term "end-user" really means in this context.11:14
mdzlet's focus on the system itself and how we will use it11:14
mdzBradB: so I have a bug which is assigned to malone, but that's wrong, and it needs to be assigned to Ubuntu instead. how do I change that?11:15
BradBin the edit screen11:15
mdzbut it isn't there yet?11:16
BradByeah, just click on the assignment11:16
mdzthat lets me change status, priority, severity, binarypackage and assignee11:16
mdzbut not the source package11:16
BradBoh, i might have been thinking of infestations allowing that to be changed then. that's a bug (it was on our todo, but not to-done yet, apparently)11:17
mdzone thing I find confusing is that when I click on most of the fields in the assignment list, I get an interface which lets me change the value I clicked on11:17
mdzbut if I click the source package, I instead get a report of bugs on it11:18
BradBit's a bit of UI weirdness11:18
BradBor goodness, depending on your point of view11:19
BradBmdz: can i clarify one thing about "users" of malone?11:19
BradBjust to give some context to further discussion:11:19
BradBso to be clear, there are three kinds of users that might use an ubuntu system (or any linux distro):11:20
BradB1. the kind that say "where's the any key?"11:20
BradB2. the kind that say "hey brad, we love plone and we're really keen to start using it!" or perhaps "i hack on core python in my spare time"...e.g. the people who are really part of the OS movement and making the software better.11:21
BradB3. the people fixing the bugs reported by 1 and 2 (who might also be in group 2)11:21
BradBmalone is for 2 and 3, issue trackers are for 111:21
BradBthat's the impression i got from discussing with mark.11:21
mdzmy point earlier was that we cannot expect to completely isolate class-1 users from malone11:21
mdzbecause of the issues inherent in difficult-to-reproduce bugs11:22
BradBmdz: ok, you might want to have a word with mark to clarify that, because my understanding is that they're in no way catered to in malone.11:22
mdzBradB: I think he and I were on the same page the last time we spoke about it, but I'll raise it again to be sure11:22
BradBmdz: ok, what other things do you see in the UI that would prevent warthogs from using it?11:24
mdzBradB: tell me about the notifications11:25
BradByou'll get a notification for adding:11:25
mdzbased on how I described our Bugzilla approach earlier, how would that map to malone notifications?11:25
BradBhm, /me thinks11:26
BradBlet's put it this way (so you can subtract malone from bugzilla and see where the different is workflow-wise)11:26
BradBpeople can be Cc'd on a bug. anybody that's a user can be.11:27
BradBpeople who are Cc'd on a bug get notifications when any of the following things are added to that bug:11:27
BradBext refs11:27
mdzhow do I get notified of new bugs?11:27
BradBmdz: they're no support for that yet11:27
mdzok, that should be on the critical list11:28
BradBthere's a problem at the UI level with that though11:28
BradBmalone needs someway of saying "this person should get notified when any bugs of this kind are submitted", but there's no UI whatsoever for that, i don't think11:29
BradBand, perhaps a distro-global notification11:29
mdzat the level of bug traffic we have now, a global notification is fine11:29
mdzall new bugs -> here11:29
BradBah, yeah, ok, i think i remember talking with mark about a quick way to hack that in11:29
BradBit's easy enough to do11:30
mdzit's a hack in bugzilla, too11:30
mdzbut it's what makes the whole thing livable for us at this point11:30
mdzevery new bug and every comment go to the mailing list11:30
mdzthis is core to working on bugs as a team, rather than as an individual11:31
kiko_bzagreed on that.11:31
BradBthat was what i was going to mention next too...current notifications are a bit too simplistic in malone. they don't email assignees, for example.11:31
BradBglobal notifications are noted, i can do that in the next day or two11:32
mdzwhen warty-bugs starts to get close to the amount of traffic on debian-bugs-dist, we'll need fancy filters to say which bugs should go to which teams11:32
mdzbut for now, we're essentially working as one team11:32
mdzBradB: if we get that, all other shortcomings of notifications can be forgiven at this stage11:32
mdzBradB: I assume that adding new bug states is fairly trivial11:33
mdzwe need several of those11:33
mdzwith an associated sort order11:33
BradBer, actually i don't think bugs have a state at the moment11:34
mdzwell, there's an attribute labeled 'state' in the UI11:35
mdzwhatever that is, we need more of them :-)11:35
BradBmdz: there's "Bug Status" in the assignments.11:35
BradBi see no state on a bug11:35
mdzUpstream / Package  State  Sev  Pri  Assigned to11:35
BradByeah, that's assignments11:35
mdzah, hmm11:36
BradBthose are easy enough to change, but i guess we also have to think about a state for a bug...or maybe not11:36
mdzwell, the common case is one assignment per bug, so that's workable11:36
mdzbut e.g., the NEEDINFO state is generally global11:36
mdzfor a bug11:36
mdzthis is minor stuff, though11:36
mdzif anything, it's somewhat more flexibility than we need11:36
BradBmdz: need info is only relevant to the person who doesn't think they have enough info to go on :)11:37
BradBbut in any case, something for down the road...i can add those easily to the assignments11:37
mdzBradB: in theory, yes, but in almost all real cases, the bug report as a whole is either complete or not11:37
mdzthe only missing Bugzilla feature that we actually use is the target milestone11:39
mdzwhich is actually a bad hack for what we really need11:39
mdzwhich is proper version tracking for workflow11:39
mdz"this needs to be fixed in Hoary" versus "this needs to be fixed in Hoary AND backported to Warty"11:39
BradBmdz: how would you expect that to be represented in the UI?11:40
mdzBradB: good question11:40
mdzit's a bit of a hybrid of an infestation and an assignment11:41
BradBMaybe target version: and backport to: or something11:41
BradBthe latter being a list11:41
mdzone approach would be to allow an assignment to refer to a source package release11:41
mdzas well as a source package or a product11:41
mdza dist release, I suppose11:42
mdzno, that's really awful, isn't it11:42
mdzideally, the state of the bug in each distrelease would be implicit based on the presence of fixed/affected versions11:42
mdzbut then there's a bit of policy which says "needs to be fixed with a new version to supersede this version", as distinct from "exists in this version"11:43
mdzso let's say a bug is reported against foo version 1.1-1 in Hoary11:44
mdzthen we come along and confirm that the bug is also present back in 1.0-2 in Warty11:44
BradBtwo infestations11:44
mdzwhich could be used to build a simple little table of releases11:45
mdzwhich says hoary: affected, warty: affected11:45
BradBah yes, of course, that makes sense11:45
mdzgiven that, a checkbox next to each one could be used to communicate that it needs a fix there11:45
mdzI did a mockup which sort of expressed this11:45
mdzI think I've lost it, though11:45
BradBmdz: a checkbox? hm.11:46
mdzso if a bug is marked as needing-to-be-fixed in Warty, and then a new infestation is added which shows that the bug is fixed in version X, and version X is now the current version for Warty, then it no longer needs-to-be-fixed in Warty11:46
mdzand the release status table would show it fixed11:47
mdzthis relies on all kinds of soyuz data, etc. though11:47
BradBmdz: the intent is that malone does this all automatically...i hope.11:47
mdzBradB: I think we can get by OK for now with just infestations11:48
mdzfor the common case, it should be clear from the display, I think11:48
mdzso given the notifications we discussed, and if we can manage to fake the milestone feature using infestations, I think we should be in reasonable shape11:50
mdzBradB: can we expect to have live data on source packages and releases?11:50
mdzimported from the package archive?11:51
BradBkiko_bz: ?11:51
BradBmdz: i've been hoping for it all day. :)11:51
BradBcprov and Kinnison might have a response for that too (but Kinnison's not around atm)11:51
BradBkiko_bz: when can we expect to have live data imported on source packages and releases?11:53
kiko_bzmdz, that's done by Gina, and that's being done as we speak. We'll likely have a database up tomorrow that you can browse11:53
mdzkiko_bz: great!11:53
kiko_bzthe database is actually quite massive but it looks very interesting11:53
kiko_bzwe are getting it to run in incremental mode, so we track the history11:54
mdzthe issue will be that we can't create an infestation until the version is known11:54
BradBmdz: what are your plans for when you realistically want warthogs to start using this, and how do you plan to have them start (e.g. a few at a time, or all at once?)11:54
mdzI expect that a very common operation will be to upload a package, and then go to Malone and mark it fixed in that version11:54
mdzbut that version won't exist immediately11:55
mdzBradB: how feasible is it to import the existing Bugzilla data?11:55
BradBmdz: there's no way of doing that that i'm aware of. kiko_bz?11:55
mdzit isn't really feasible for us to use both systems at once11:56
BradBmdz: here's the problem with testing:11:56
kiko_bzthere is no *current* way, but we could get an importer going11:56
BradB1. malone isn't a very good test for it11:56
BradB2. we need a few people giving this a *good* *test* (stability and real-world usability-wise) without having everyone at once using it.11:57
BradBso, ideally, we'd get a couple of maintainers using it for a couple weeks11:57
BradBa couple, a few, several, whatever :)11:57
mdztthe problem with a couple of people using it is that they need actual bug data in it to test11:58
mdzand if that doesn't come from bugzilla, that means pointing users to malone11:58
BradBhm, rolling it out all in one shot is a big risk11:59
BradBi can see why it's difficult to have just a few people testing it though. hmmm.11:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!