mdzKamion: nice!12:04
thomKamion: very cool12:04
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=== mdz wonders what to do with #2817
thomassign it to elmo12:42
thomactually, no12:58
thomfind someone to make that as a mask12:58
thomand then we can give it to elmo at decConf12:58
mdz482 >= normal bugs to review01:02
mdzlamont: ping?01:28
=== lamont doesn't do masks
mdzlamont: how is amd64 coming along?01:35
lamonthoary.all.amd64:Total 616 package(s) in state Needs-Build.01:36
lamonthoary.all.powerpc:Total 52 package(s) in state Needs-Build.01:36
lamontstarting to look at bugs, pondering gnutls1[01] 01:36
__danielhmmmmm, why does noflushd depend on ed?! :-)01:41
lamont__daniel: because some things are sick, that's why01:50
lamontdepend, or build-depend?01:50
azeem        printf "%%s?^ *$1=.*?$1=\"$new\"?\nw\nq\n" | ed -s "$CONFFILE"01:54
azeemit's used in the postinst01:55
lamontazeem: warn me before you do that, so I can puke other than on the keyboard...01:55
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azeemlamont: heh, you might want to read the comment before that line one day...01:56
lamontazeem: please tell me it's an apology?01:56
azeem        # Careful here! Both DISKS and PARAMS may contain '/' (or just about01:56
azeem        # any other character. In order not to confuse ed, we use a delimiter01:56
azeem        # for the regexp that very rarely occurs in path names.01:56
lamont" very rarely occurs"01:57
azeemoops, lamont just did another edwards01:57
azeem"it's perfectly safe"01:57
lamont"hundreds and hundreds of times, ain't nothing happened"01:57
__danielthis is something even <b>I</b> wouldnt have thought of01:57
__danielgood night everyone, hopefully ed won't blow up my box tonight ;-)02:04
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=== lamont dinners
mjg59Is / an accepable character in disklabels?02:19
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=== jdub upgrades his desktop to hoary ;)
lamontpackages with at least one failed arch: dh-kpatches, linux86, rrdtool02:32
lamontjdub: so what's uninstallable, I wonder?02:32
jdubwell, gdm no longer wants to be removed or upgraded02:32
jdubso i'm chancing it02:32
lamontoh, and planner02:42
lamontjdub: lol02:42
jdubonly thing that wanted to be removed on this run was python2.3-generic (replaced without 2.3)02:43
jdubso i'm upgrading without losing anything02:43
jdubwhich is a good start ;)02:44
mdzjdub: I fixed the removing-alsa-utils bug earlier today02:53
mdzthen upgraded my laptop02:53
mdzthe only issue I ran into was a segfaulting gnome-settings-daemon, which seb fixed02:53
lamontdo we have a list of the needs-review packages?02:56
lamont  libgnomevfs2-dev,libgnutls10-dev02:56
lamont  libcupsys2-dev,libgnutls10-dev02:56
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jdubhrm, so03:56
jdubi have two binary packages in the same source package03:57
jdubone of which incorrectly had files that should've been in anoother03:57
jdubso now when i go to upgrade, i borks on replacing those files03:57
jdubthe one which should have those files depends on the Source-Version of the one which shouldn't03:58
jdubshouldn't that be upgraded first?03:58
jdubor do i have to do something with Replaces?03:58
=== lamont goes to town for a bit
=== lamont changes mind, stays home
mdzjdub: you need to add a Conflicts:04:13
mdzlamont: the list of needs-review packages is pending the latest reduction through Keybuk magic04:14
lamontmdz: ah, ok04:20
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fabbionemorning guys04:53
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hornbecktseng: that libdbus-cil did not work05:12
hornbecksorry I did not get to it sooner05:12
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lamonthoary.all.amd64:Total 256 package(s) in state Needs-Build.05:30
mdzmorning, fabbione06:05
fabbionei was wondering...06:05
fabbionein a changelog06:06
fabbione* blabla:06:06
fabbione  + foobar:06:06
fabbione    - dkdkdk:06:06
fabbioneand then?06:06
fabbionewhat is the next symbol to use?06:06
fabbione / ?06:06
fabbione~ ?06:06
mdzI would go with = or .06:07
fabbionesqrt() 06:07
lamontnight all06:09
lamonthoary.all.amd64:Total 204 package(s) in state Needs-Build.06:12
lamonthoary.all.i386:Total 4 package(s) in state Needs-Build.06:12
lamontand really off to bed06:13
mdz52 packages in the past 40 minutes, not bad06:13
fabbionenight lamont 06:15
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fabbione97 lines of changelog already06:21
fabbioneand it is not even that detailed06:21
fabbioneahhh there is a new server06:29
fabbione#if defined(XdmxServer) && XdmxServer06:29
fabbioneXCOMM distribued multihead Server06:29
=== fabbione wonders what that is...
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fabbionedaniels: ping07:31
mdzfabbione: this hardware cursor thing is becoming a FAQ07:39
mdzis there anything we can do?07:39
mdzcan we just disable it by default?07:39
geppyHow does one go about becoming a ubuntu packager?07:42
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pittiMorning, guys!07:46
mdzpitti: morning07:48
pittiHi mdz!07:48
pittimdz: AFAICS you did not yet send out the announcements?07:49
mdzgeppy: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/maintainers07:49
mdzpitti: that is correct07:49
mdzpitti: I can run amber if you have tested the packages07:49
pittimdz: so far I'm prepared for glibc and tetex-bin07:50
mdzpitti: which USN number is each?07:54
pittimdz: glibc: 4-1, tetex-bin: 9-107:54
fabbionemdz: no we can't.. on quite a bunch of hardware it works fine07:58
geppymdz:  Thank you.07:58
fabbionemdz: if we disable it by default, someone will complain of the opposite07:58
fabbionemdz: as usual.. no win2win situation here07:58
mdzfabbione: what will they complain about?07:58
fabbionemdz: welcome to X :-)07:58
fabbionethat the cursor is not accelerated in hardware07:59
mdzpitti: both installed, templates are on their way07:59
mdzwill they even notice?07:59
pittimdz: got them08:00
fabbionemdz: people will complain just because there is the option in the config. i don't know at visual level08:01
fabbione+ each driver has it's own option08:01
fabbioneone has SwCursor another HwCursor08:01
fabbioneso you get the picture...08:01
mdzwhat is the cause of the bug, where there are two cursors on the screen?08:02
fabbioneAND THE FONTS BUILD FLAGS in X.org are borked!08:02
fabbionemdz: apparently there is the default black X cursor printed on the screen, but the real mouse works08:02
mdzfabbione: right, it is as if there are two cursors08:03
mdzone hardware and one software? two hardware?08:03
mdzor is it even something else?08:03
mdzperhaps there is a bug that can be fixed08:03
pittimdz: odd, the libc6 thingy contains two package versions08:03
mdzpitti: yes08:03
mdzpitti: it had to be fixed so that it would build08:03
pittimdz: right, but can't we just drop the ubuntu2.1?08:04
mdzpitti: yes, you can drop it from the advisory08:04
mdzamber needs to process it, though08:04
mdzit probably should be omitted from the template08:04
mdzpitti: send mail to elmo about it08:04
elmoor just tell me now08:05
fabbionemdz: i think one is the hardware and one is the software08:07
fabbionemdz: yes.. it might be a bug.. and i don't know 1) how to reproduce it 2) if it can be fixed08:07
mdzelmo: wtf are you doing awake?08:07
=== mdz yawns
jdubmdz: ... 5.04 or 5.4?08:08
elmomdz: fell asleep at my desk, got woken by cron.daily08:08
mdzjdub: 5.4 would be more accurate08:08
pittimdz: out08:08
mdzelmo: tell me you're joking08:08
elmomdz: ...08:09
fabbionethis is going to be so cooooool08:13
fabbionemdz: do you feel lucky today?08:13
mdzfabbione: why, do you want to upload X? :-)08:18
elmopitti: oh, I thought you guys were talking about nothing-to-merge syncs.. and you weren't.. do mail me about/explain whatever you were talking about ;-)08:19
pittielmo: the only problem was that the glibc amber output contained two versions (2.1 and 2.2); I deleted all 2.1 package lines08:19
mdzelmo: glibc had two versions in accepted/08:20
mdzelmo: I passed them both through amber at the same time, as I understand I'm supposed to08:20
elmoyeah, definitely08:20
mdzelmo: and amber included md5sums for both versions in the template08:20
mdzwhich I think it has always done, but it occurred to me that it doesn't make much sense08:20
elmowell, easy workaround is to run amber twice, that works too08:21
elmoas long as you do it in the right order ;-)08:21
elmobut yeah, I'll TODO hiding anything-but-latest version from template08:21
mdzand lamont will TODO having everything in warty actually buildable :-)08:21
mdzwartylog: TOO LATE FOR YOU08:22
fabbionemdz: no... i need someone to help me debugging a 22K lines Makefile08:22
pittimdz: did you already approve the two messages? I did not get them yet08:23
mdzfabbione: I am feeling so tired suddenly08:23
fabbionemdz: but still lucky, eh?08:23
fabbioneelmo just woke up... so he should be fresh :P08:24
mdzpitti: done08:24
pittimdz: thx. I also added them to the website (works now)08:24
pittimdz: BTW, any idea how to delete this test item?08:24
mdzpitti: test item?08:24
pittimdz: the USN page contains a "testing manager permissions" item08:25
pittimdz: maybe lulu created it to check something08:25
mdzpitti: oh, who did that? :-)08:25
pittimdz: its state is "obsolete", but it still appears08:25
mdzpitti: I changed it to in-progress08:26
mdzso it should not appear08:26
mdzbut I do not know if it is possible to delete anything08:26
pittimdz: ah, right, as soon as I log out, it does not appear any more08:26
mdzelmo: I don't suppose you have a handy list of all the little gotchas for ambering, to give to pitti?08:26
pittimdz: but neither do my newly added items. Gosh - I changed them to "published"...08:27
pittimdz: oh, now they do. Please forget that08:27
mdzour website is SO SLOW08:27
elmothe lack of caching probably isn't helping08:27
elmobut yes, it is painful08:28
mdzelmo: does the load spike on gentoo every time someone clicks a link?08:28
elmoheh, well it has jumped a lot since we broke the caching08:29
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mdzelmo: was that intentional in order to un-break the authentication?08:34
mdzgah, falling asleep. night, all08:35
fabbionenight mdz08:35
elmomdz: they're trying to get it caching with auth, yeah, but broke it entirely in the process. woo08:35
pascelmo: sounds like you need to run anacron later ;-)08:37
elmopasc: I was more thinking I should sleep in a bed instead08:39
elmoradical idea, I know, but..08:39
=== jdub wipes tears from his face, reading mako's STUPID protein joke
fabbionepitti: are you sending out the USN, BEFORE or AFTER the packages are available on the main mirror?08:47
pittifabbione: after08:47
jdubhoary is back to the glory days of warty08:47
pittifabbione: mdz ambers them (which should mean to push them to the mirror), then I send out the announcement08:47
fabbionepitti: imho you should wait a coule of hours to give time to the mirrors to sync08:47
jdubevery time you update, even if it's only 15 minutes apart or less, there'll be new packages ;)08:47
pittifabbione: hmm, mdz wanted me to send out the announcements immediately. mdz, what do you think?08:48
fabbionepitti: mdz is asleep08:48
pittifabbione: oh08:48
fabbionei am afraid that in this way mirror maintainer will be bombed of requests to sync more often08:48
pittifabbione: hmm, mirroring is a good point; OTOH, further delay of updates is not the best thing either08:49
fabbionepitti: i completed my mirror 10 minutes before the USN08:49
pittifabbione: maybe there could be some sort of a mirror pulse whenever a new security upload is available? It's not that much to sync08:49
fabbioneand the packages were not there08:50
pittifabbione: maybe this should be discussed on the ML?08:50
fabbioneon Debian they usually wait that it is available08:50
elmono they don't fabbione08:50
elmothey tell people not to mirror security.debian.org08:50
pittinevertheless folks do it08:50
fabbioneelmo: i still see the DSA and i have the packages on the local mirror08:51
elmoyes, but the point is they don't delay DSAs for the sake of mirrors08:51
fabbioneand i mirror debian much less often than ubuntu08:51
elmobecause there are no official ones08:51
elmoand I don't think we should delay our USNs either08:51
fabbioneelmo: it's not like delaying them 24Hours08:51
pittime neither, I rather think the mirroring strategy should be fixed then08:51
fabbionepitti: i agree08:52
elmowhat mirroring strategy?08:52
pittifabbione: would this be technically possible to send out a mirror pulse?08:52
fabbioneelmo: the point is that we don't have a fully separate archive for security08:52
fabbionepitti: yes. that can be done08:52
fabbionepitti: but it's up to elmo to implement it08:52
elmonot to fabbione's personal mirror it won't08:52
fabbionei use ssh triggers for that08:52
fabbioneelmo: nahh... i am not that selfish you know :-)08:53
fabbionei can handle stuff for myself.. i am more concerned about normal users that do not understand all the details behind stuff and that usually tends to panic when they read "security"08:54
fabbioneelmo: allow me that at least :P08:54
elmonormal users are going to be pointed at security.ubuntu.com08:55
fabbionenot in big company environments08:55
elmowe wouldn't be triggering big company environments, so what's your point?08:55
elmodude, we can not "fix" this08:55
fabbioneit's pitti and mdz call for that08:55
fabbioneelmo: companies like Ericsson (just to make an example) have their own internal mirrors08:56
fabbioneand you might end up triggering them08:56
elmoerr, no I wouldn't?08:56
pittifabbione: it certainly makes sense to have a local mirror; maybe we can introduce a kind of "sync subscription" process?08:56
pittielmo: why do you think it's bad to send out sync triggers?08:57
elmopitti: I didn't say it was08:57
fabbioneelmo: if company $FOO comes here and say: we pay XXXXX USD/month to be triggered....08:57
fabbioneelmo: aren't we going to trigger it?08:57
elmopitti: but you have a hiearchahal structure08:57
elmonot a flat one where you trigger every mirror and his dog08:57
pittielmo: so we do trigger some main mirrors?08:57
elmopitti: no not right now, but what's your point?  even if we do, we should NOT delay USNs for that08:58
elmoand triggers are triggers - you have no idea when the mirror is up2date08:58
pittielmo: no, we shouldn't delay USNs, that was not my question08:59
elmoor often, even if the trigger's worked, they're not some magic solution08:59
pittielmo: I just thought about shortening the mirroring delay08:59
fabbioneok... and another bug in X.org is fixed09:07
fabbionenow let's wait these... few hours to complete the compilation09:07
sid77c'mon fabbione you are doing it for "the cause" ;)09:08
fabbioneelmo: all our amd64 and ppc buildd are in single cpu mode, right?09:14
fabbionebut the i386 is SMP09:15
thomfabbione: correct09:15
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=== fabbione has some kind of insane IDEA
thomuh oh09:24
thomthese are never good09:24
=== thom adopts the crash position
=== sid77 wears an helmet
pittielmo: do package syncs need to be approved my mdz?09:26
pittielmo: imagemagick can be synced from sid09:26
fabbionethom: not that bad... but the i386 buildd will save a bunch of time09:26
fabbionethom: they started implementing the target DONE inside X.org, to mark a subdir as such09:26
fabbionethom: i can easily detect if the target is there or not09:26
fabbioneand parallelize building of docs and fonts09:26
fabbioneaccording to /proc/cpuinfo09:27
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__danielgood morning09:33
AndyFitzmorning __daniel09:34
__danielhai AndyFitz09:35
=== sid77 is now known as sid77_away
danielsfabbione: pong09:49
fabbionedaniels: libXaw.a disappeared from X.org09:50
fabbionehow are we supposed to ship libXaw*-dev ?09:50
fabbionedaniels: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/006_update_fonts_Imakefiles.diff09:51
fabbioneplease apply upstream if it is not there alredy in 6.8.1+CVS09:52
fabbioneit fixes fonts build09:52
danielsfabbione: what the hell? disppeared?09:54
danielsprobably because no-one cares09:54
danielsfabbione: ok, I'll check it out09:54
bob2xaw = athena?09:54
fabbionedaniels: no it's not upstream09:58
fabbionedaniels: wait.. there is a missing bit in the patch10:00
fabbionedaniels: it should be ok now10:04
thompitti: you need to fix the desktop seed - libhal-storage is in universe10:15
pittithom: argh, thanks for that hint10:15
pittithom: can I do that myself?10:15
thomi don't know10:16
pittithom: I'll mail matt10:16
jdubdoes germinate pull from the new wiki or the old wiki? :)10:17
jdubpitti: approved10:17
thomjdub: i was wondering that10:17
jdubpitti: but i imagine it will make most sense on the old wiki atm10:17
pittijdub: okay, then I'll add it there10:17
thomold wiki is read only10:17
pittithen new wiki... :-)10:17
pittijdub: if it does not work with the new wiki, I can still bother mdz; it's not that urgent, nothing uses this library yet (I think)10:18
pittijdub: no, sorry, hal itself uses it10:18
thomwell, hal depends on it10:18
thomso trying to use just hoary will break10:18
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sivangthom : around?10:23
danielshowerhai seb12810:23
danielshower/nickt __daniel10:23
thomsivang: yo?10:24
thomsivang: in general, please just talk. if i'm not around, i'll have an away log set10:24
sivangthom : just remembered something from my past, you ever heared of TANDEM / HIMALAYA ?10:24
sivangthom : or should I say Compaq TANDEM :)10:25
thomnope, no bells are being rung here10:25
sivangthom : ok10:26
pittijdub: currently I think germinate uses the Warty seeds; but I can't possibly change them, right?10:33
jameshhi seb12810:33
pittijdub: that is, I shouldn't10:33
seb128hey jamesh 10:34
jdubpitti: oh, true, germinate is totally unrelated to hoary so far10:34
danielsbob2: X Athena Widgets10:34
jdubpitti: perhaps just put it on SupportedSeed proposals for hoary if it needs to go there (isn't it a depends?)10:34
bob2daniels: ah10:34
pittijdub: it is a depends, that's why I'm wondering why it got to universe10:35
pittijdub: seems like germinate did not run recently10:35
pittijdub: I shouldn't need to modify the seeds10:35
jameshseb128: w.r.t. the new drive mount applet and Hoary, would it be easier if I backported it to 2.8, or just leave it for a 2.9 release.10:36
seb128just leave it, I'll package the 2.9 branch10:36
seb1282.9.1 is due next week, right ?10:37
jdubpitti: i don't think we're germinating hoary at all yet10:37
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pittijdub: so maybe we should? New upstream versions are flooding Hoary10:37
pittijdub: they could introduce more of these problems10:37
|trey|Is Xorg in Hoary yet?  Breakages are welcome, filing bugs makes me feel needed  8)10:38
daniels|trey|: we will tell you when xorg is in hoary.10:39
danielsnothing about hoary (it being ready for use, xorg entering, everything) will creep up on you10:39
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pittiHi Keybuk!10:40
|trey|daniels, just thought I would ask here due to "Happy Hoary Trail"... I usually use Sid anyways, so know what to expect  :)10:40
jdubmorning Keybuk 10:40
jdubKeybuk: dude, you still doing germinate stuff?10:41
Keybuknope, Colin's been looking after that for a while now10:41
bob2|trey|: hoary contains nothing exciting atm10:41
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|trey|bob2, anything new = exciting... new features are fun  :)10:41
jdubthere's nothing particularly featureish10:42
danielsbob2: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ajaxxx/33986.html10:43
Keybukwe're still very much resynchronising with Debian10:44
bob2daniels: hah, saw that10:44
bob2daniels: and liw* removed sex10:44
robtaylor|awayamu: ping?10:46
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amurobtaylor: pong10:50
danielsbob2: mmm10:50
robtayloramu: hey :) have you seen the bug i logged about hotplug not working on the live cd?10:50
robtayloramu: well, hal not working, but i'm pretty sure hal doesnt work cause hotplug isnt being run from the pivot_rooted root..10:51
amurobtaylor: strange, looks like matt thinks the same, i tried with a ext fs, looks working, but it wasnt automountet.  10:55
robtayloramu: yeah  i cant quite figure whats wroing - i've but debug code in /sbin/hotplug on a running livecd system, and it never gets called10:56
amuhmm, i've still no idea, what's different if you compare a chroot or a "normal" sys 10:56
robtayloramu: well doenst morphic pivot_root twice?10:57
robtayloror is it chroot?10:57
robtaylorright, so that uses a new namespace10:57
robtaylorits possible the kernel is trying to run hotplug in one of the other namespaces..10:57
robtaylorbut the only problem with this hypothesis is that i find it hard to belive noones ever noticed hotplug not working...10:58
amurobtaylor: i think, thats should be problem for hotplug, doent matter at which time you insert you hardware, hotplugs job is loading the module, if you chroot to somewhat else, it should work also. Sounds funny if you chroot into a chroot and you have no disk left.         11:01
amuor a missing ethernet interface, cause of the chroot 11:02
robtayloramu: yep, it'd definitly a bug if its not working they way we expect it to work..  it could be some 2.6 kernel bug and maybe only occus after two pivot_root, or some such obscureness11:02
amuprobably hotplug is the (main) problem. 11:02
robtayloramu: or are you saying you'd expect hotplug to run from the main system, not the pivot_rooted system?11:03
robtayloramu: chroot is very different to pivot_root11:03
amumdz: we should discuss a redesign :) i've some ideas    11:03
amurobtaylor: just a minute ...11:04
robtayloramu: np :)11:05
amurobtaylor: your localtime 10:08 is correct ?11:09
amu....i've to wait for mdz 11:09
robtayloramu: yep :)11:10
robtayloramu: ok. what's his TZ?11:11
robtayloramu: so i dont get what you're saying.. are you saying that this is how hotplug works by design?11:12
amuprobably : TIME reply from mdz: Thu Oct 28 02:10:1111:12
sivanghey sparkes11:12
robtayloramu: ah , we'll be waiting a long time..11:13
robtayloramu: i'm not convinced, as i see it a pivot_root call *should* change current->fs->root11:14
amurobtaylor: i tried with RC2, a ext3 on it, device is detected but not automounted. if i mount it by hand it works    11:14
enricoHello, good morning.  I posted the question about Wiki contents licensing in the warthogs list some days ago, but I haven't got any answer.  However, it'd be important for the doc team to know about that11:15
robtayloramu: if you run syslog, do you get any hotplug messages?11:16
robtayloramu: bear in mind that morphix adds a fstab entry for sda1 by default11:17
robtaylorand that if the device is plugged in at boot, it gets detected by the coldplugging11:17
amurobtaylor: yap, without any error 11:18
=== robtaylor has been looking at this problem for a couple of days =)
=== sparkes [~sparkes@host81-154-216-173.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
amurobtaylor: impossible, if you run a scsi-sys, extern scsiCDrom, sata disks  11:19
robtayloramu: well it should work. the coldplugging is just script running in whereever you did your /etc/rc.0/Sxxhotplug11:19
robtayloramu: eh?11:19
amu... sda1 by default   11:20
robtayloramu: boto up the livecd with no scsi devices added, and /etc/fstab will have an entry for sda1. yes its broken.11:25
robtayloramu: try it of you dont beleive me =)11:25
amurobtaylor: first thing i've to do, i must reach mdz. If he say ok, you spend much time as you need on this bug, thats fine for me. 11:25
robtayloramu: if he says ok to what?11:26
robtayloramu: right now the livecd is very broken... i dont see how you can release a warty livecd with no working hal..11:27
amurobtaylor: right, cause of this, i need mdz, the liveCd isnt designed for hal.  11:29
robtaylorthats very broken then11:30
amuso there are some feature plans, but first we have to discuss them, fixing a bug is no problem, we should find a solution for feature development.   11:31
jdubenrico: it's being discussed11:32
pittiCan somebody please proofread an USN? TIA! https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/usn-libxml.txt11:33
enricojdub: where?11:33
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jdubenrico: it was brought up off-list11:34
robtayloramu: what's your plan?11:34
amurobtaylor: just hold on a little. btw. the FAT16 is orginal one with done with mkfs 11:34
__danielpitti: i can't read it :-)11:34
KeybukKamion: do you want to double-check things like anna which have translation skew?11:34
jdubi don't think it'll last long there11:34
pitti__daniel: well, it's not yet public, so this is on purpose :-)11:34
amus/one/one, or 11:34
enricojdub: ah, I see.  Could you please keep me updated?   I took care of sorting this out11:34
jdubenrico: i don't think it'll be off-list for long11:35
enricojdub: ok, I'll wait then.  At least now I know that my message didn't go ignored like I was thinking11:35
robtayloramu: umm, i belive the 1st key key was created with syslinux.  the 2nd key used for testing is as-new11:35
sivangpitti : need password for that11:35
pittisivang: it's only readable for canonical folks. Sorry, I posted in the wrong channel11:36
sivangpitti : ah nevermind :)11:36
amurobtaylor: with the existing packages, building the liveCD11:36
sabdfljdub: saw your lsb-release upload11:41
sabdflcan we make that explicitly "development" please?11:41
sabdflsame for any other version indicators11:42
sabdfli've added lsb-release to the ReleaseChecklist so we don't forget to set it correctly for release11:42
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sabdfljdub: ^^ ack?11:48
fabbioneKeybuk: ping11:59
=== fabbione -> food
jdubsabdfl: ahr, yeah12:02
sabdfljdub: cool12:02
jdubsabdfl: btw, was going to ask mdz, should we make it like this:12:03
sabdflanywhere else we should do that?12:03
jdubDISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu (Hoary Hedgehog)" ?12:03
jdubor perhaps, given development12:03
jdubDISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu Development Branch (Hoary Hedgehog)" ?12:03
sabdflThe Hoary Hedgehog Release12:03
jdubDISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu, The Hoary Hedgehog Development Branch" ?12:04
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jduband then s/Development Branch/Release/ later on?12:04
sabdflprefer the ()'s12:04
sabdflUbuntu (The Hoary Hedgehog Release) Unfer Development12:04
sabdflany is good12:05
Keybukfabbione: ello12:07
seb128jdub: gst-python has been upload (it's in NEW)12:07
seb128uploaded even12:07
jdubpython bindings12:09
robtaylorooh :)12:09
jdubwhich are used by FLUMOTION12:09
sabdflseems rather perfect for ubuntu12:10
jdubhopefully i'll have flumotion in such a state that we can use it in december :)12:11
jdubah, crap12:12
jdublamont, elmo: ping?12:12
fabbioneKeybuk: can you put back online the xfree86 diff from ubuntu1 up to ubuntu25 ?12:20
Keybukas a single diff?12:21
fabbioneif possible as separate diff it would be nice12:23
fabbione23 24 and 25?12:25
jdubi thought we locked warty-updates12:25
=== fabbione laughs
=== jdub hopes the change accept email doesn't mean it'll hit the archive
Keybukjdub: who uploaded what?12:26
KamionKeybuk: yes please, where?12:26
jdubi uploaded hoary's lsb-release to warty12:27
seb128 lsb-release (1.4-7.1ubuntu5) warty; urgency=low12:27
Kamionjdub: hm, I thought we agreed 5.04 rather than 5.4 ages ago ...12:27
KeybukKamion: in about 10-15 minutes12:27
jdubKamion: mdz seemed to think 5.4 yesterday12:27
Kamionjdub: yeah, I saw that12:27
Keybukugh, 5.4 is harder to compare than 5.0412:27
Keybukwe should try and be clear12:27
jdubto be fair, 5.4 -> 5.10 is okay by dotversion comparison generally12:28
Kamionnot that bothered, just surprised12:28
Keybukdescent scott% touch 5.1012:28
Keybukdescent scott% touch 5.412:28
Keybukdescent scott% ls -1 5.*12:28
jdubKeybuk: that's numeric, not version :)12:29
jdubapache will sort it the right way :)12:29
Keybukjdub: FTP won't though12:29
sabdfl5.04 ould be more accurate12:29
Keybukso anyone using a mirror, or grabbing via FTP, will pick the wrong one12:29
seb1285.04 is better imho12:29
fabbioneKeybuk: can you put online also 23, 24 and 25?12:29
Keybukfabbione: cooking atm12:29
fabbioneKeybuk: great!12:29
jdubnon-date version numbers would be ideal! :)12:29
sabdfljdub: nice12:29
sabdfllucky it wasn't x.org :-)12:30
jdubhas it hit the archive?12:30
sabdfljdub: reactionary12:30
jdubso far you have called me a terrorist and a reactionary12:30
jduband that's just today12:30
jdub'freedom fighter' is preferable ;)12:31
fabbionesabdfl: did you hear the news about x.org?12:31
sabdflit's the hair12:31
sabdfland the reactionary, terrorist attitude12:31
sabdfl"desktop icons" indeed12:31
sabdflwalk freely into the future dude!12:31
sabdfllet go!12:32
sabdflfabbione: no?12:32
fabbionesabdfl: that it takes approx 60% more build resources that Xfree86?12:32
Keybukfabbione: ok, up now12:32
fabbioneKeybuk: cool!12:32
jdubsabdfl: i should point out that you didn't manage to express the whole scheme until a couple of weeks before the preview - had you done so, the changes would have been simple :)12:32
=== jdub goes to find a che guevara tshirt and matching lipstick
sabdflwhich scheme?12:33
fabbioneoh and that's with ccache :-)12:33
sabdflfabbione: why?12:34
jdubsabdfl: no desktop icons at all, handle the problem elsewhere (ie. the panel changes were the result, not the goal)12:34
fabbionesabdfl: it's bigger.. it has more stuff inside.12:34
fabbionesabdfl: more extensions, mode libraries12:34
fabbionesabdfl: one server more12:34
fabbione(that i still need to figure what it does)12:34
fabbioneKeybuk: i downloaded them. if you want you can remove the dir on people12:35
fabbioneKeybuk: thanks a lot :-)12:35
sivangjdub:  che guevara ?12:35
sabdfljdub: speaking of which, any candidate for the slicker "places" menu in both nautilus and panel?12:35
sabdfljdub: find a win-xp box, and check out how they handle it12:36
sabdflthey have two icons sizes12:36
sabdfland for their places menu they use the more compact one12:36
jdubsabdfl: yeah12:36
sabdflwhich allows you to fit a lot in there12:36
jdubsabdfl: had some ideas, will run them by you12:36
jdubsabdfl: oh, btw, you got time for a quick call?12:36
sabdflwe need to spec and bounty this 12:36
sabdfljdub: sure12:37
jdubrelated stuff12:37
pittiany C guru around here?12:37
pittican I always expect "long long int" to be (at least) 64 bit?12:37
Keybuksabdfl: nautilus, panel *and* GtkFileChooser please <g>12:38
jdubyeah, those will all be integrated12:39
sabdflKeybuk: absoloodle12:39
jameshpitti: on interesting platforms yes, but in general you can't rely on "long long" existing (it was only standardised in C99, iirc)12:40
jdubSubject: Porposing libgnomesu for 2.1012:40
jdub^ dolphins in gnome 2.10, good for ubuntu :)12:40
Keybukplus I don't think C99 actually specifies a size anyway12:40
pittijamesh: I need a reliable way to detect overflow of multiplication of two 32-bit-ints12:40
Keybuk"longer than a long int" is about as far as it goes12:40
seb128jdub: I've uploaded libgnomesu in debian yesterday12:41
Mithrandirpitti: use int_64 or whatever it's called?12:41
robtaylorjdub: libgnomesu?12:41
pittiKeybuk: any better method to check for integer multiplication overflow?12:41
Keybukpitti: asm12:41
pittiMithrandir: oh, if that exists and is portable?12:41
jdubrobtaylor: see the post, it's kinda what the library name implies ;)12:41
jameshpitti: there is some code in Python's int class to do that portably12:41
Keybukpitti: there's also imaxdiv in C9912:42
Mithrandirpitti: uint64_t12:43
Mithrandirafaik, it's portable.12:43
pittiMithrandir: thanks, this is great12:43
pittiKeybuk: thanks as well, now I have some ideas12:43
jameshpitti: the Python code uses floating point multiplication and compares the result with an integer multiplication.12:43
robtaylorjdub: ah, nothing too exciting then..12:44
pittijamesh: hmm, that's a bit ugly but could be a last resort12:44
=== robtaylor and carlos need to write authd some day..
robtaylorthough if gnome apps standardise on using libgnomesu, that'll make integration nice an easy :)12:45
pittiKeybuk: sivang is right, http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Long-Long.html says it's 64 bit minimum12:45
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pittiKeybuk: but I think uint64_t is nicer12:45
Mithrandirpitti: I could see if it exists on irix, if we have the SGI compiler there.. if it exists there, it exists everywhere ;P12:46
pittiMithrandir: well, above link is just for gcc...12:46
jameshpitti: how portable does it really need to be?12:46
pittiMithrandir: which would be okay for a security fix, however, I'm interested in a generic solution12:46
pittijamesh: it's just a security fix for Ubuntu12:46
jameshI mean, long long is available on pretty much all modern systems.12:46
pittijamesh: so gcc is enough12:46
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sivangtseng : gemme the apt source for tomboy :)12:47
Keybukpitti: sizes are *officially* implementation defined, but I suspect all unixes define long long as at least 64-bits :)12:48
pittiKeybuk: I think I will rely on uint64_t. The advantage is, if it does not exist on a platform, you get a compiler error12:48
pittiKeybuk: instead of making it silently work12:49
sivangpitti : or loose bits off at a functino call :)12:49
pittisivang: this is indeed the critical part12:49
jameshKeybuk: I thought they had some set minimums for certain sizes though.12:49
Keybukpitti: long long is defined as being "at least as wide as long"12:49
pittiI currently need to fix libgd2, and it uses malloc(width*height) style12:49
jameshcertain types, even.12:49
Keybukjamesh: god no, that'd limit C to 8-bit architectures12:49
pittiboth width and height are 32 bit12:49
Mithrandirseems to exist on IRIX 6.5 just fine.12:50
pittiso I want to multiply into a 64 bit int, then compare against UINT_MAX or so12:50
KamionTitle             Comp.compilers: Re: ANSI portable overflow detection12:50
KamionCurrent URL       http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/94-05-04512:50
sivangMithrandir : you have access to an IRIX ? cool12:50
Keybuk32-bit machines "long int" and "int" are the same width, 16-bit "long int" is twice as wide as "int" for example (generally speaking)12:50
Mithrandirsivang: for some value of cool, sure. ;)12:50
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Mithrandirjust an old indigo 2, though12:50
sivangMithrandir : what's hardware is it running on?12:51
sivangMithrandir : desktopish like? 12:52
jameshon ILP32 systems, int and long int are the same :)12:52
jameshgood thing there aren't many LP32 ones.12:52
Mithrandira 250MHz R4400, the box itself is a bit biggish desktop case.12:52
pittijamesh: why, int and long int are the same also on i38612:52
jameshpitti: i386 is ILP32 (== ints, longs and pointers are 32-bit)12:53
Keybukpitti: in fact, obviously now I think about it, LP64 and ILP64 architectures have "long int" as 64-bit12:53
pittijamesh: ah12:53
pittiKeybuk: right, but my numbers are explicitly declared as 32-bit ones12:53
MithrandirKeybuk: what arches are ILP64?12:53
jameshKeybuk: and Windows 64 is neither LP64 or ILP64 ..12:53
=== Keybuk hides
jameshlongs are smaller than pointers on win64.12:54
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rburtonjdub: plop01:08
thomfabbione: theme song for the X Sprint: "happiness is free when you lose your mind"01:08
seb128hey rburton 01:13
rburtonhi seb128 01:13
jdubrburton: grr, on phone, and have to go away for a couple of hours01:15
jdubrburton: will ping when i get back01:15
rburtonjdub: k :)01:15
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sabdflseb128: how does the trash applet use the keyring?01:24
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sabdflhmm... does it make sense to but 5.04 in for hoary now?01:25
sabdflwhat if gnome slips?01:25
seb128? I don't understand the question ? It uses it in the same way as the other GNOME apps do ...01:25
sabdflseb128: how is that?01:25
seb128there is a gnome_authentication_manager_init () to call and the GNOME libs do all the work01:27
jameshsabdfl: before adding the gnome_authentication_manager_init(), I'd need to check all the sync. gnome-vfs calls01:32
jameshsince you can get a deadlock if you do a synchronous vfs call while holding the GDK lock and gnome-vfs wants to pop up an auth dialog.01:33
seb128jamesh: ? I've already uploaded a trashapplet using it, is there a problem ?01:34
jameshseb128: possibly.01:34
seb128hum, ok01:34
jameshseb128: basically, an app using gnome-authentication_manager_init() needs to be a threaded GTK program01:35
seb128let me know if you get a problem, seems to work fine here01:35
jamesh(normally, no GTK calls are made in gnome-vfs's worker threads so you don't need to turn on GTK threading(01:35
jameshbut the auth dialogs change that.01:35
seb128ok. How do you check there is no problem so ?01:36
jameshwell, all idles and timeouts that make GTK calls need to call gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave()01:37
Kamionsabdfl: if we have to remove the Under Development thing anyway, we've got time to change it01:37
jameshand all sync gnome-vfs calls need to be surrounded by gdk_threads_leave() and gdk_threads_enter().01:38
Keybuksabdfl: then we slip and change to 5.05 :)01:39
sabdflKamion: ok, i was just thinking we should maybe put no version number in there while it's under development01:39
fabbionethom: lol01:39
seb128jamesh: ok01:40
jameshseb128: I'll look at it tomorrow.  I also noticed that the trash applet wasn't resizing quite right too, which should be pretty easy to fix.01:46
seb128yes, there is a bug open about this01:50
seb128the resizing is not correct with some panel width01:51
fabbioneand another bit is fixed01:52
pittiCan somebody please review the patch for #2810?01:52
pittiMithrandir: since you are a security crack, mind to have a look? ^01:53
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jonois there a guide to writing FDI files for HAL anywhere?01:58
pittijono: hal-doc contains a decent specification01:58
thomlook at an existing one, change what you need? they're very simple01:58
jonocool :)01:59
sivangwhat are FDI files?02:01
sivangFreeDesktop something?02:01
=== lamont wakes up, throws his vote behind 5.04 rather than 5.4
sivangoh, these are probably the XML dockies for hardware specs or hal behavior..02:04
lamontany french speakers here?02:07
tsengsivang: gimme? no thanks02:07
tsengsivang: and its up there02:07
lamont"Il faut combien pour une mini-tour PC pour ubuntu et/ou serveur debian?"02:07
tsengsivang: minor bug in it, missing a ) in debian/control i havent gotten to yet02:07
lamontI think I understand it, but not sure.02:08
sivangtseng : I installed it on my other machine yesterday, hornbeck provided me with the sources URLs ..It worked very nicely IMHO02:08
sivangtseng : you would like me to use proper english ? :)02:09
tsengplease works.02:09
sivangtseng : oh sorry :( didn't notice I forgot that in the hurry of typing.02:10
fabbionelamont: ask seb128 :-)02:11
fabbionelamont: or msg bubulle 02:11
lamontfabbione: yeah - was hoping he'd show up..02:11
lamont<lamont> "Il faut combien pour une mini-tour PC pour ubuntu et/ou serveur debian?"02:12
seb128lack of contexte02:12
fabbionehe works only on my summon :-902:12
lamontseb128: or I could forward you the email and you could reply in french....02:12
lamonttalking about liveCD02:12
seb128he's probably asking which kind of configuration he needs to run ubuntu (mini-tower or server)02:12
seb128or it could be "how much does it cost to get a working config for ubuntu" .. but probably that's probably the first option02:13
seb128lamont: feel free to forward any french mail if you want02:13
=== lamont forwards
pascthat's a weird way of phrasing it though. It literally means "You need how much for a mini-tower PC for ubuntu and/or a debian server"02:20
=== sivang waits for firefox to load
lamontcould be asking for system specs?02:22
lamontkids->school.  bbl02:22
fabbione  * Remove xprt, libxp6-* and libxp-dev packages.02:24
=== thom waves to NetworkManager
thomit *really* doesn't like ESSIDs with spaces02:25
pittithom: please fix it! My ESSID at home has a space :-/02:28
seb128lamont: that's what I was saying, he's probably asking for the minimal hardware requirements ... do we have "official" requirements ?02:30
sjoerdpitti: the plugdev group, does that have read/write permissions or only read ?02:32
pittisjoerd: r/w02:32
pittisjoerd: it's similar to 'disk'02:32
thompitti: so does mine, so I will02:32
sjoerdpitti: why is write permission usefull?02:33
pittisjoerd: users are able to partition, format and label devices02:33
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pittisjoerd: you can start with having the device nodes 640, if you like02:34
pittisjoerd: but I think Marco should device that, as udev maintainer :-)02:34
pittiHi T-Bone02:34
sjoerdpitti: oh i'm just wondering how it all works out.. i wouldn't really want all users who can mount, to also be able to have direct write perms02:35
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pittisjoerd: well, they can do pretty much anything with USB devices anyway02:36
jonowhere are the fdi files in ubuntu located?02:37
sjoerdpitti: the user can, not the programs running as user02:38
pittisjoerd: we wanted to keep it compatible to 'disk', but if Debian wants to have the permissons as 640, Ubuntu can adopt this, too02:39
pittisjoerd: personally, I don't have a very strong preference, but I like to be able to partition my devices without becoming root02:40
rburtonjono: i imagine /usr/share/hal/fdi02:40
pittisjoerd: also, hal will not be able to change device labels without write permission as plugdev02:40
pittisjoerd: according to the reply to my question on the hal list, hal will support that 02:40
sjoerdi know02:41
sjoerdi'm not really happy with it though02:41
pittisjoerd: I would have preferred a database maintained by g-v-m02:42
sjoerdpitti: explain02:42
pittisjoerd: but it would only apply to one host and not to other OS02:42
pittisjoerd: instead of writing the device label to the device, g-v-m could maintain a persistent mapping UUID -> label02:43
pittisjoerd: s/writing/using/02:43
sjoerdone could do that mapping in hal, user specific fdi's would be nice for that02:43
sjoerdfor the labelling, why not have an external program that signals hal to reread the label02:43
pittisjoerd: in fact storing the labels in hal (persistently in /var/lib/hal or so) was my idea02:44
rburton(speaking of which, any idea how to change the label on vfat without booting windows)02:44
pittisjoerd: and the reason why I asked on the ML whether hal supports persistent keys02:44
jonoare these fdi files probed each time you plug a device in?02:44
sjoerdpitti: sorry forgot the exact reasoning :)02:44
sjoerdjono: yes02:44
pittisjoerd: both approaches have pros and cons02:45
jonosjoerd, does it load each file one by one and check the pci/usb id?02:45
pittisjoerd: device labels are very limited, but aren't restricted to one host02:45
sjoerdpitti: long time ago there was a discussion about the exact goal of hal.. and one of the outcomes was that hal wasn't ment as system configurator02:46
pittisjoerd: I always understood it as hardware database02:46
pittisjoerd: so I think persistent keys fit into the idea02:46
sjoerdpitti: so why they want to put labelling inside...02:47
jonohow can I probe the vendor id and device of a usb device?02:47
sjoerdjono: at which level ? hal can tell you those 02:48
pittisjoerd: don't ask me...02:48
pittisjoerd: I would prefer hal to stay read-only02:48
pittisjoerd: this would fit with the host-based database of device labels02:48
jonoahhh it says them in the device manager - I am writing an fdi file for my mouse02:48
sjoerdpitti: i'm not asking you, i'm explainig why i find it weird :)02:48
pittisjoerd: sorry02:48
sjoerdpitti: i'm probably not completely clear, my fault 02:48
sjoerdpitti: we don't have to follow hal in the labelling part though.. 02:50
sjoerdhal upstream thatis02:51
pittisjoerd: right02:51
pittisjoerd: but if we use the physical device labels, the user still needs to have write access to the device02:51
=== jono [~jono@82-37-194-90.cable.ubr05.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
pittisjoerd: (the label writing could be done by another process)02:51
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sjoerdpitti: but to give the user full write access, just for labelling..02:52
pittisjoerd: and partitioning, and formatting02:52
sjoerdstill.. well need to think about it, i guess02:54
pittisjoerd: yes02:55
pittisjoerd: I'm currently drowning in work, not really the best time to make design decisions... :-(02:55
pittisooo many security bugs...02:55
sjoerdpitti: no need to rush into things, better to wait some time and do it right :)02:56
pittiagreed :-)02:56
=== fabbione hits libxp6 with a huge cluebat
pittifabbione: still no luck with the damn beast^W^WX.org?03:00
fabbionepitti: i have done 70% of the boring job03:00
fabbionenow i am working on trying to figure out all the changes03:00
fabbionepitti: "boring"03:00
pittifabbione: you mean reviewing the 300K+ lines changes?03:01
fabbioneonce we take that away it comes all the messy part03:01
fabbionepitti: i finished that 2 days ago :-)03:01
fabbionethat was easy03:01
fabbionethe boring part is to reallign the MANIFEST checks03:01
fabbioneand to see what is changed across the entire tree03:01
pittiI did nothing else that reading patches and doing security uploads in the last days, I did not listen to any news :-(03:01
fabbionelike for example check why fonts were not build properly03:01
=== pitti understands what fabbione means with "boring"
fabbioneor why all of a sudden libXaw.a is not shipped anymore03:02
fabbioneand it takes forever to do a test build03:02
fabbioneto see if the flags you change will put the stuff back03:02
=== robtaylor remembers having to do custom xfree86 packaging..
=== robtaylor sympathises with fabbione
fabbionerobtaylor: xfree86 is a nice walk compared to x.org03:03
fabbionex.org takes 60% more time to build03:03
fabbionetime and space actually03:03
robtaylorfabbione: oh no! i thought it was supposed to be getting better!!03:03
pittirobtaylor: ever saw a new upstream version that was leaner and faster than it's predecessor? :-/03:04
robtaylorfabbione: any ideas why? is x.org still using imake or have they transitioned to autotools now?03:04
fabbionerobtaylor: not when tons of people have cvs commit to it03:04
robtaylorpitti: heheh good point ;)03:04
fabbionerobtaylor: the problem is not Imake or autocrap03:04
pittirobtaylor: about the only thing that would possibly help was to rewrite it from scratch03:04
fabbionerobtaylor: the problem is the amount of (useless) code that has been committed03:04
pittirobtaylor: but not for Hoary then... :-)03:04
fabbioneand i am pretty sure there is something badly wrong with the build system03:04
robtaylorpitti: i thought that was the plan.. ;) 03:05
pittisjoerd: oh, providing a wrapper around pmount is really a good idea03:05
fabbionebecause i noticed that timestamps are not in order as they should03:05
fabbioneand the build dir is full of .bak files03:05
robtaylorfabbione: quit epossible, thats why i asked if they'd transitioned yet03:05
pittisjoerd: it should be in a package pmount-hal or so03:05
fabbionerobtaylor: but i don't have this problem with Xfree8603:05
fabbioneso it must be something they introduces recently03:05
robtaylorprobably :(03:05
robtaylorcheck the changelog for anything suspicious..03:05
fabbionerobtaylor: one thing at a time :-)03:06
fabbionepoint is that they didn't check what they checked out of xfree8603:06
fabbioneand their cvs is kinda borked03:06
fabbioneso it's not even easy to do so03:06
fabbionefor example...03:07
fabbionethe Imakefiles.inc in xc/fonts/bdf/75dpi03:07
fabbionethat one is 4 and half years old03:07
fabbioneand buggy03:07
fabbionebut the one in xfree86 (still the real free version)03:07
fabbioneis 1 year old03:07
fabbioneand it works fine03:07
fabbioneso i suspect that their fork hasn't been done properly03:08
fabbioneat all03:08
robtayloroh god. thats just horrific03:09
=== pitti cheers fabbione and gives him a pot of motivation
Keybuk(and read http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/merge/README)03:10
robtaylordaniels: explain yourself, man!03:11
robtaylorKeybuk: out of interest, on avarage, how well have warty patches made it back upstream?03:13
fabbioneKeybuk: SEXY!03:13
fabbioneKeybuk: drop xfree8603:14
fabbionedon't even spend time on it03:14
Keybukrobtaylor: reasonably, maybe half of them03:15
Keybukfabbione: sure, those are for everyone else to spend time on :)  I've done 150 :p03:15
Keybukjust ignore it03:15
fabbioneKeybuk: sure.. i was helping :-)03:16
Keybukrobtaylor: one nice thing about this is we end up with a fresh set of patches to ping people with03:17
Keybuk(after we've filtered out branding and so-on)03:17
KamionKeybuk: might want to deal with things like the removal of vi.po throughout d-i03:19
Keybukheh, yeah I noticed that one <g>03:19
KamionKeybuk: (it was removed in Debian because it wasn't well-enough maintained, but your hoary patch adds it back in)03:19
KeybukI deliberately ignored debian-deletion of translations03:19
Keybukjust incase you screamed at me03:19
Kamionalso, uh, debian/templates seems to be added back in for anna?03:19
KamionI bet it's called anna.templates now03:20
Keybukthere's a reason those are all in "review" :o)  they need a human to check them because the automatic stuff went "uhh..." at them03:20
Kamionwhich will probably require .po changes03:20
Kamionok, fair enough03:20
=== Kamion will snag all the d-i ones later, then
Keybukit'd be good if people could note what they had to fix as well, because then we can fix that kind of stuff automatically next time03:20
robtaylorKeybuk: good going :)03:21
KamionKeybuk: ready/kbd-chooser/ has the same problem with ga.po and vi.po though03:21
Kamionmight want to add an "uhh..." when Debian deletes a translation03:22
Keybukah, ok, I'll fix that one manually03:22
fabbionecache hit                         12973103:22
fabbione(btw ccachetop rocks)03:23
KeybukKamion: ok, does kbd-chooser look right now?03:24
KamionKeybuk: I think that UML-addition hunk is a duplicate03:26
KamionKeybuk: that code got merged in Debian03:26
KamionKeybuk: note the diff -p header03:26
Keybukyeah was just noticing that03:27
Kamionthe only change should be the high->critical bit, I think03:27
=== Keybuk wonders why he didn't spot that before (I did diff -p for that reason) :p
Kamionnice work, though :)03:32
robtayloramu: well, i've been grokking kernel sources all day, and as far as i can tell the rootfs of the kernel helper thread that start the process that execve's to /asbin/hotplug should have had its root changed by pivot_root...03:33
Kamionrobtaylor: I'm missing context; but you don't have /sbin/hotplug in the initrd do you?03:34
robtayloramu: so either a) the hypothesis is wrong or b) its a subtle kernel bug03:34
robtaylorKamion: context is http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=275803:35
robtaylorbascially on the livecd, /sbin/hotplug doesnt seem to ever get called03:35
robtaylor(except when coldplugging)03:36
Kamionmight be worth making sure /sbin/hotplug only exists in the final pivot_rooted filesystem03:36
robtaylorKamion:  might be, but even then, if the kernel helper thread has the wrong fs->root, then its'll fail to execve it..03:37
Kamionwas thinking more of the problem I had last night where udevd was running in the wrong root03:39
Kamionthereby making it hard to umount it03:39
robtaylorKamion: it does appear that minimod has /sbin/hotplug03:39
=== Kamion -> lunch
robtaylorKamion: intersting.. how did you reach that state?03:39
robtaylorKamion: wow. late lunch!03:40
thomhrm, lunch sounds like a stunning plan03:40
=== thom -> lunch
Micksaoh my03:44
MicksaI just came home to the cow screensaver on the live cd :)03:44
Micksawelp, apart from a few glitches, it's looking good guys03:44
=== pitti_ [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pitti_pitti_: can I read this?03:49
Kamionrobtaylor: I only started at about 1104:02
Kamionrobtaylor: I had all the hotplug and udev infrastructure in the initrd; you pretty much have to, because of the way d-i's early putting-itself-together process works04:03
Kamionrobtaylor: so a hotplug event fired just after init started, and triggered udevsend, which started udevd before /sbin/init got around to doing pivot_root04:03
KeybukKamion: btw, is there any consideration for binaries in d-i?04:07
=== Keybuk is knocking up the map parser at the moment
KeybukI suspect there won't be an issue, because it's written to be tiny and not depend on anything in /usr anyway04:08
KamionKeybuk: what do you mean?04:08
Kamionoh, you mean something written in C? go ahead, shouldn't be a problem04:08
Keybukyeah, something small and fast04:09
fabbionerobtaylor: got it! the install targets relinks all the binaries around!04:11
fabbionecreating all .bak files04:11
fabbionethat's so SAD04:11
Kamionsomebody make hotplug's init script less insanely verbose, too04:14
Kamionit's really ugly as d-i starts now04:14
Kamionhmm. it's safe to run /etc/hotplug/*.rc start multiple times, isn't it?04:15
sladendaniels: to you have a handied separated copy of the -noswitchvt patch ?04:15
robtaylorKamion: should be04:16
Kamiongood, I'll need that04:17
robtaylorKamion: hmm, but for you, after the pivot_root, its running the /sbin/hotplug in the pivoted root?04:18
Micksais it just me or is the teams' development process maginificently streamlined?04:19
robtaylorfabbione: thats pretty grim04:20
Kamionrobtaylor: yep, definitely04:25
Micksaanyway, how can I find out about the team's development methods? is there much info on the wiki or whatever?04:25
=== lamont returns
Kamionapart from {WartyWarthog,HoaryHedgehog}/ReleaseSchedule and the various plans and meeting agendas and stuff, we mostly just do stuff and try not to get in each others' way :-)04:29
Micksathat was anti-climactic :)04:29
Micksahas some sort of structure/procedures/etc arisen out of that?04:30
lifelessyeah, cutting code :)04:30
Micksaheh, okay04:30
Micksaso basically it comes down to you people generally knowing how to Get Shit Done04:31
Micksaguess it helps that you can all cut code in your sleep huh :)04:31
Micksauhm, is the wiki on ubuntulinux.org public?04:39
lifelessI hope so :)04:39
Kamionyes, but you need to log in04:40
lifelesswhat sort of tree?04:40
Micksato log in you need an account right? :)04:40
Micksaahem. I can't find the "create new account" thingy, if there's meant to be one04:41
lifelessoh, has it gone to zwiki yet ?04:42
lifelessis it a moin moin or a zwiki you are seeing ?04:42
lifelessah, no idea.04:43
Micksa:) okay04:44
Micksaphew, I thought I was about to be LARTed into next week04:44
=== lifeless larts because he can
jdubrburton: around?04:45
rburtonjdub: yes04:45
jdubjabber keeps kicking me off04:45
lamontjdub: why does clicking on the terminal icon on the panel give me _2_ terminal windows?04:57
robtaylorKamion: boh.. well this livecd issue is looking weirder by the minute.. i'm tempted to blame mini_fo =)04:59
pittisjoerd: I'm currently at fixing pmount05:03
pittisjoerd: if pmount shall get a "-t" option for specifying the fs type05:03
pittisjoerd: what shall pmount then do with the mount options?05:03
pittisjoerd: currently it uses appropriate mount options for each file system type (i. e. whether it supports rw, uid=, etc.)05:04
sjoerdpitti: with the other mount options you mean ?05:04
pittisjoerd: yes, like -o uid=1000 or so05:04
pittisjoerd: some file systems don't support them and will fail to mount05:04
Micksaah, I see. the doc team are establishing a structure in the new wiki.05:04
pittisjoerd: so either I keep a mapping of valid file systems and only allow keys of this mapping as -t05:04
pittisjoerd: s/so either/A solution would be that/05:05
pittisjoerd: any better idea?05:05
sjoerdpitti: i guess that's the best 05:05
=== pitti wishes ANSI C had a ready-to-use mapping type
sjoerdpitti: letting the calling process indicate the options is insecure, so the only way is internal05:06
pittisjoerd: ?05:06
pittisjoerd: please try to reexplain that, my brain is already very boiled today :-(05:07
sjoerdpitti: your solutions is doing it internal, map the given filesystem to sane options right..05:07
pittisjoerd: yes, that was my intention05:07
pittisjoerd: if no -t is specified, I try every entry in succession05:07
sjoerdpitti: doing it !internal -> external, would be to have for example the calling process specify the options05:07
pittisjoerd: if -t is specified, I look it up (and fail if it is not found)05:07
sjoerdbut that's insecure05:08
pittisjoerd: I still don't understand05:08
pittisjoerd: you mean that I put the mapping into a conffile?05:08
=== pitti is too lazy to parse it
pittisjoerd: what do you mean with "external mapping"?05:09
sjoerdpitti: external == something else then pmount :)05:10
pittisjoerd: but then pmount had to check the options for validity05:10
sjoerdyep, so that sucks 05:10
pittisjoerd: there really isn't much you can change05:10
pittisjoerd: apart from sync/async05:11
sjoerdhence your option is the best :)05:11
pittisjoerd: also, it does not require to parse something :-?05:11
hornbeckwhat happened to the new wiki?05:12
hornbecknevermind I guess my settings got changed05:12
sjoerdpitti: btw do you want to package a hal-pmount wrapper seperate from pmount? 05:14
pittisjoerd: I don't want the core pmount package depend on hal05:14
pittisjoerd: because it is also useful without hal at all05:14
pittisjoerd: so the source package could produce another .deb (arch-all) which depends on pmount and hal05:15
sjoerdmy first choice would be to implement it in C.. there are no language bindings for the hal libs05:17
pittiargh, wrong window05:17
pittisjoerd: not? there is hal-get-property, not?05:17
pittisjoerd: you mean there is no shell binding for hal-storage?05:17
=== sid77 -> quit, bye
sjoerdok, you could call that a binding.. 05:18
=== sjoerd always find shell to get cumbersome very quickly
pittisjoerd: I actually thought of a simple shell wrapper05:18
pittisjoerd: well, python would be okay, too :-)05:18
sjoerdthen you have the language bindings problem.. you can talk to hal directly like h-d-m, but still05:19
pittisjoerd: hmm, we should start with a shell wrapper05:19
sjoerdmaybe it's simple enough to be plain shell, haven't thought about it enough05:19
pittisjoerd: if it gets too clumsy, we can change the language at any time05:19
sjoerdpitti: agreed05:20
pittisjoerd: so it shouldn't actually do more than specify (or not) --async and the device label, right?05:20
pittisjoerd: sounds like a four-line script by now05:20
sjoerdhmmm.. the default policy defines more options, probably not usefull for us05:22
pittisjoerd: which options?05:22
sjoerdnosuid, noexec, noauto, ro05:22
sjoerdfirst three are obvious05:22
pittisjoerd: hmm, pmount policy fixes this05:23
sjoerdyeah, so their useless for us05:23
pittisjoerd: not only for us - allowing suid mounts is kind of insane...05:23
sjoerdpitti: fstab-sync isn't very sane :p05:24
sjoerdpitti: to be serious, it's indeed just sync and suggested label for now.. so a shell script should do the trick05:24
pittisjoerd: don't tell me that fstab-sync currently respects the nosuid value from hal!05:24
sjoerdpitti: i won't say a word about that then :)05:25
pittiwhoever... nevermind05:25
mdzpitti: no, no approval is needed for syncs at this stage, just verify against the changelog05:26
pittimdz: oh, good morning!05:26
pittimdz: okay, good to know05:26
danielsrobtaylor: i'm not responsible for imake; right now, I'm leading the charge to kill the monolithic tree.05:26
pittimdz: BTW, do you know how to get a CAN number?05:27
robtaylordaniels: i know, i was just teasing you ;)05:27
mdzpitti: in most cases I can assign one05:27
pittimdz: I already mailed cve@mitre.org to get one for #280805:27
pittimdz: but I did not get an answer so far05:27
mdzhowever, if a vulnerability is publicly known, it must be assigned by MITRE in order to avoid duplicate assignments05:27
danielsrobtaylor: heh05:27
mdzpitti: I usually mail  "Steven M. Christey" <coley@mitre.org>05:28
pittimdz: hmm, it's on bugtraq, I guess that counts as public05:28
robtaylormdz: that livecd bug's just looking worse by the day :/05:28
pittimdz: hmm, I followed the FAQ and mailed cve@05:28
mdzrobtaylor: which one?05:28
mdzpitti: they probably go to the same place05:28
pittimdz: what do you think, shall I upload the package without a CAN or wait?05:28
robtaylormdz: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=275805:28
mdzrobtaylor: I didn't realize until that bug that the live CD wasn't running in the real root05:29
mdzit was impossible to fix in time05:29
robtaylormdz: yeah, whats the plan going forward?05:29
mdzpitti: wait, the bug is not serious05:29
mdzrobtaylor: fix it :-)05:29
pittimdz: well, if you trust your ISP, it is not really serious05:30
pittimdz: but ppp is very common also with p2p connections05:30
robtaylormdz: its a bit weird, tho, i cant see why the kernel isnt running the current /sbin/hotplug05:30
pittimdz: so I would still like to fix that in warty; you don't?05:30
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091b56.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
robtaylormdz: it just executes it in the context of the kernel helper thread, which should have had its root changed by pivot_root05:31
mdzrobtaylor: it is running the only one it could possibly choose, the real one05:31
mdzthe CD doesn't use pivot_root, no? that's the whole problem05:31
mdzpitti: what kind of p2p connections?05:31
robtaylormdz: ah, it doesnt? that would explain it.. what is it doing?05:31
pittimdz: not the warez ones :-)05:32
mdzrobtaylor: chroot05:32
mdzrobtaylor: as I discussed in the bug05:32
robtaylormdz: ahhhh....05:32
mdzeither that one, or another one05:32
pittimdz: I just meant I can talk to the modem of my friend directly over ppp05:32
robtaylormdz: hmm, are you familiar enought with the morphix stuff to point me in the right direction for fixing this?05:32
mdzrobtaylor: no, I am not05:33
mdzpitti: yes, your friend :-)05:33
pittimdz: or believed friend :-)05:33
mdzpitti: if you truly want to release without a CAN, you may05:33
mdzpitti: it creates more work for _you_ though, to track it05:33
pittimdz: since it's not that critical, I can wait for another day or two05:33
pittimdz: I also created a patch for #2810 (this one is truly serious)05:34
mdzpitti: when did you send the mail?05:34
pittimdz: I asked for review, but did not get one so far05:34
mdzmitre is UTC-405:35
pittimdz: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:00:04 +020005:35
pittimdz: so, 9:00 am of their time05:35
mdzpitti: where did you ask?  I will review it if needed05:35
robtaylorlamont: ping?05:36
pittimdz: on the Debian bug and on the Warty one (and on IRC)05:36
lamontrobtaylor: yo05:36
=== Kamion wonders why the sk98lin-update patch in our kernel hasn't gone upstream yet
Kamionthe lack of MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE killed my first d-i pure hotplug test05:37
robtaylorlamont: so does the livecd actually chroot rather than pivot_root?05:37
lamontrobtaylor: 2 minutes05:37
robtaylorlamont: np :)05:37
lamontand I'll be back...05:37
lamontrobtaylor: I think it does chroot.  dunno actually05:37
mdzpitti: mail to ubuntu-devel would probably be good practice05:37
lamontbut pretty sure.05:37
mdzit is timezone-skew-friendly05:37
pittimdz: right, I'll do that05:37
=== x4m [~max@230.237-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimdz: BTW, I uploaded a libxml2 security patch, USN is prepared05:43
pittimdz: https://chinstrap/~pitti/usn-libxml.txt05:44
jdubmdz, pitti: can you guys read the following thread, tell me what you think?05:44
KamionKeybuk: your .po merge seems to have thrown away lots of non-ISO-8859-1 characters ...05:51
mdzpitti: hmm05:52
Kamionlook at anna_hoary.patch debian/po/cs.po, for instance05:52
Kamionmsgid "Loading components of the Ubuntu installer"05:52
Kamionmsgstr "Nahrvaj se komponenty instalanho programu"05:52
Kamion#~ msgid "Loading components of the Debian installer"05:52
Kamion#~ msgstr "Nahrvaj se komponenty instalanho programu"05:52
mdzpitti: what type are rowbytes and height?05:52
pittijdub: I don't really see the reason why it shouldn't use sudo, though05:52
pittimdz: png_int_32 or so05:53
pittimdz: 32 bit in all cases05:53
mdzpitti: signed or unsigned?05:53
pittimdz: unsigned05:53
pittimdz: nevertheless, I compare it to INT_MAX, not to UINT_MAX05:53
jdubpitti: i gather the only reason he's not doing sudo so far is because he hasn't figured out how to do it nicely, within his framework05:53
pittimdz: since size_t (the actual type of malloc) is signed05:53
pittijdub: right, but gksudo calls sudo asynchronously05:53
mdzpitti: 2^32-1 * 2^32-1 > 2^64-105:54
pittijdub: I don't know why this shouldn't work for him05:54
mdzoh, no it isn't05:54
KamionKeybuk: hm, mind you, the old translation was broken in a different way05:54
pittimdz: ?05:54
pittimdz: okay05:54
mdzpitti: I think this is probably safe, but the usual way to do the check is somewhat different05:54
pittimdz: I don't know the "official" way. I asked the guys on IRC, thoug05:54
pittimdz: and we agreed that this one is feasible05:54
mdzpitti: the way it is done later in the patch05:54
pittimdz: what's the official?05:54
mdz+      if (height >= INT_MAX/sizeof(png_bytep)) {05:54
pittimdz: but that does not work too well for bigger numbers, since it's integer05:55
mdzfor a possible overflow X*Y, you test X >= INT_MAX/Y05:55
pittimdz: I only did that for numbers which are fixed and 1,2,4 or so05:55
=== sivang [~dannyh@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivanghowdy again all05:55
mdzpitti: it works fine, since integer division is rounded down05:56
sivanghi hornbeck05:56
pittimdz: ah, right, I mixed the rounding up05:56
sivangmdz : I think I have an idea for that performance bug on my dekk05:56
sivangmdz : dell05:56
thomso what's the go with ~ ?05:56
pittimdz: okay, then I change the patch 05:56
sivangmdz : do you have a minute for me?05:56
mdzsivang: I cannot give you my undivided attention, but please don't wait, just describe your idea05:57
robtaylorlamont: back yet?05:58
lamontrobtaylor: sorry, yes.05:58
mdzpitti: there is no patch available upstream for libgd?05:58
robtaylorlamont: i've been trying to figure where the pivot_roots/chroots happen, do you knwo enough morphix to point me in the right direction?05:59
lamontnot really.05:59
sivangmdz : I've tried to play several media file on the dell, using the debian kernel (on the bugtrail), when I'm constantly at the machine - It seems like its responsivness goes bit higher.06:00
lamontI'd expect to find them in the people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/LiveCD/morphix tree though06:00
robtaylorlamont: thanks :)06:00
sivangmdz : My assumption is, that this which menifests lightly on the debian kernel, probably takes much nastier form on the ubuntu ones06:00
sivangmdz : which results in the system barely usabe.06:00
seb128jdub: here ?06:01
jdubsivang: the machine is running awfully slow?06:01
mdzsivang: what is the bug #?06:01
sivangmdz : If only I could disable altogether ubunut's support for fan control, thermal and cpu freq06:01
sivangmdz : I think it might be solved.06:01
seb128jdub: I'm packaging gnome-vfs2 2.8.3 for hoary, good time to add the build-dep on libhowl-dev, right ?06:01
sivangjdub,mdz : sec06:02
mdzsivang: why?06:02
jdubseb128: yes, rock and roll :-)06:02
seb128ok, cool :)06:02
sivangjdub,mdz : #231506:02
sivangmdz : the fact that the system goes into a much more usable and responsivness when using it constantly, cliking windows, playing media files , accessing the hd etc06:02
sivangmdz : suggest to me that when I leave it to idle,06:03
sivangmdz : it enters power/cycle saving mode that it has trouble getting out of06:03
mdzsivang: I agree, it sounds like it is overheating06:03
mdzsivang: is the CPU fan coming on at all?06:04
sivangmdz : now I could nicely invesitage it using the media files playing thing, I first tried to play it off  after just firing up the mahicne - no go06:04
sivangmdz : I tinkered with it a bit,06:04
sivangmdz : casued to do disk access and some massive gnome works, and it suddenly worked06:04
lamontrobtaylor: yeah - I pruned the knoppix tree down to just wjat'06:05
lamonts used, but the morphix one is still full.06:05
sivangmdz : the cpu comes relatively long after the system starts.06:05
sivangmdz : the fan06:05
sivangmdz : could you supply me with a kernel that doesn't do powersaving/cycle down/ fan control at all? I want to machine to be working at it's full speed all time to test06:06
mdzsivang: is there anything in /proc/acpi/thermal_zone ?06:06
sivangmdz : btw, even when it starts the fan never goes to it's fullest rpm like on XP06:07
mdzsivang: try booting with acpi=off06:07
jdubsivang: have you booted that machine with acpi=force or acpi=off?06:07
sivangjdub : never tried acpi=force06:07
mdzsivang: don't, use acpi=off06:07
sivangjdub : all the others, I did06:07
elmojdub: you know you uploaded the "Hoary Hedgehog" lsb-release to warty, right? 06:07
thomelmo: did you just wake up?06:07
jdubpipka's toshiba runs horribly slowly on the ubuntu kernel06:07
mdzsivang: check /proc/acpi/thermal_zone please06:07
jdubelmo: one, yes, it was a mistkae - did it hit the archive?06:07
jdubif she runs it with acpi=force, then it's fine06:08
jdubelmo: cock06:08
jdubelmo: i thought uploads were restricted anyway?06:08
elmothey go to warty-updates06:08
elmobut it's still in warty-updates now06:08
jdubthey don't require manual auth?06:08
mjg59sivang: acpi=off disables the kernel's control of all power saving except CPU frequency scaling06:08
mdzjdub: acpi=force can help sometimes if ACPI is being disabled by default; in sivang's case it is enabled properly06:08
elmojdub: no, I was told manual auth wouldn't be necessary :P06:09
mjg59Stopping the powernowd service will disable the latter06:09
mdzelmo: can we make it so that things uploaded to 'warty' are rejected, and warty-updates must be uploaded explicitly to warty-updates?06:09
sivangmdz : I have THM under /proc/acpi/thermal_zone06:09
elmoyeah, probably, I'll look at doing that06:09
elmothom: pretty much, I woke up (again) a couple of hours ago06:10
thomelmo: ouch06:12
pittimdz: sorry, phone. There's no new upstream version and I did not find a public CVS for libgd06:12
sivangmjg59 : I want to disable cpu freq scaling also06:13
sivangmdz : polling_freq = disabled06:14
sivangmdz : state = ok06:14
sivangmdz : temp = 52C06:14
sivangmdz : critical(S5) = 94C06:14
mjg59sivang: Stop powernowd06:14
sivangmjg59 : it's doing cpu freq scaling?06:14
sivangmjg59 : what about cpu scaling accoridng to battery charge?06:15
mjg59There isn't any06:15
sivangmjg59 : ok, I hope this is not the case of buggy hardware..06:16
sivangmdz,jdub : I will try acpi=force06:16
mjg59sivang: No, acpi=force will do nothing06:16
mjg59All that does is force acpi to be enabled. It already is enabled for you.06:16
mdzpitti: I will see what I can find06:17
mdzsivang: I already explained the same thing that mjg59 said06:17
pittimdz: BTW, I'm at updating it to use the division method06:17
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mdzpitti: I will see fi I can find a semi-official patch06:17
sivangmdz : k :)06:17
mjg59sivang: acpi=off will disable the kernel's management of power saving and leave it up to the hardware. Stopping powernowd will stop frequency scaling.06:18
elmoGAR god damn it keybuk06:18
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bluefoxicyso, naked men, and a whorey branch?06:19
sivangmjg59 : can I disable entirely the scaling modules that probably interacts with the userlan powernowd ?06:20
Keybukelmo: ?06:20
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lamontmjg59: is there a FM I can go read to tell me how to have acpi/whoever not do anything when i close the lid?06:21
mjg59lamont: It's managed by /etc/acpi/events.d06:22
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mdzKamion: any fun new stuff in anna?06:25
robtaylorlamont: so is a knoppix-based one something your looking at?06:26
lamontrobtaylor: no. morphix uses 3 knoppix packages06:26
robtaylorlamont: ah, ok, good :)06:27
lamontspecificaly, the hw detection/setup...  which goes away/merges for hoary06:27
mjg59Is powernowd actually doing the right thing on startup?06:28
mjg59Does an Ubuntu system have anything in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/cpufreq ?06:28
pittimdz: I updated the patch and put it in bz06:29
robtaylorlamont: that'd be cool06:29
mdzpitti: bug#?06:29
pittimdz: 281006:29
lamontrobtaylor: it's kinda like a hoary-requirement06:29
robtaylorlamont: it dioes seem to chroot, according to http://am.xs4all.nl/morphix/diagrams/base-module-complex.png, i just need to figure out why..06:30
pittimdz: I added rowbytes >= INT_MAX before division checking to avoid problems with signed/unsigned autoconversion with the division06:31
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Kamionmdz: some more lowmem support, bit of extra error checking, preseeding support06:34
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=== Kamion dives into the base-installer .po merging nightmare
KamionI *so* need to get sarge out so that we can merge some of that stuff back to Debian06:35
pittithe Release Manager has spoken :-)06:35
sivangKamion : you work with Joey Hess right? :)06:36
Kamionin some projects, yes06:37
sivangmdz,jdub : acpi=off halts the boot process on detecting IDE drives.06:38
elmomdz: done ('warty' uploads being rejected)06:40
sivangKamion : he also working on D-I right?06:42
sivangmdz : acpi=force yeilds the same prformance resluts, I recall something with epic=somethign you told me06:42
sivangmjg59 : I apt-get removed powernod, however on startup I still get a message that thermal and fact control modules are loaded.06:43
mjg59sivang: Yes. Pass acpi=off06:43
sivangmjg59 : acpi=off just hangs the machine when it detects IDE drives, thuse render it unbootable.06:44
mjg59sivang: For the last time, acpi=force will do precisely nothing on your computer. Ever.06:44
mjg59sivang: Right. That's an entirely separate problem06:44
sivangmjg59 : ok. 06:44
sivangmjg59 : maybe disable acpi on bios?06:44
mjg59If the BIOS lets you disable acpi, then yes06:44
mjg59It's unlikely that it will06:45
mjg59If you're using acpi, you must load the thermal and fan modules06:45
mjg59Otherwise your computer will potentially be damaged06:45
sivangmjg59 : what happens if I dont? Can't I not use if my system hangs the kernel due to it?06:45
mjg59If your machine hangs when you try to boot without acpi, you must use acpi06:46
mjg59If you use acpi, you must load the thermal and fan modules or your computer will be physically damaged06:46
sivangmjg59 : ok then. 06:46
mdzelmo: great, thanks06:47
robtaylormjg59: ah, that explains why my laptop burnt itself out at debconf...06:48
robtaylorah no, that was apm ..06:48
Kamionsivang: joeyh started the d-i project and has written a vast amount of its code, yes06:49
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=== robtaylor is now known as robtaylor|away
=== elmo prepares to make mdz and baby jesus cry
Keybukelmo: what are you doing?07:13
elmopreparing the latest mail about hoary seed syncage - there's a dep chain of despair that's going to pull in a bunch of packages we've been trying to avoid in main since forever07:14
=== mdz wields the dependency machete of DOOM
hornbecksivang: hello07:19
bluefoxicyis the devel list slow?07:21
lamontfabbione: should I expect toresetXbeforethespacekeymapping is correctwhenIchangekyeboards?07:21
elmobtw, the testing page is actually looking sane now, compared to yesterday (err, or whenever it was I was last up)07:21
elmoaiee, keybuk07:22
elmoguys, don't upload stuff that has no changes from Debian, with the same version07:23
elmoit'll be synced automatically07:23
elmoand if and old 'ubuntu' version needs overridden, just let me know07:23
Keybukelmo: agh07:25
Keybukthat's a "stupid keybuk", I uploaded the wrong thing anyway07:25
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Kamion$ debdiff base-installer_1.12.dsc base-installer_1.12ubuntu1.dsc | wc -l07:35
Kamion$ debdiff base-installer_0.087ubuntu13.dsc base-installer_1.12ubuntu1.dsc | wc -l07:35
Kamionyay for base-installer07:35
=== lamont comes to the conclusion that a session manager is pretty useless to him unless he can find a _reliable_ way to get his ssh passphrase intered into ssh-agent _BEFORE_ALL_THE_&*^$^(&^%)*_WINDOWS_START_
Kosailamont: This is why we have a priority variable for the startup programs in g-s-m.07:36
mdz|diffstat is a better metric than |wc -l07:36
lamontKosai: nope.07:36
lamontthat _starts_ gnome-ask-pass, but doesn't block for it to finish.07:36
tsenglamont: there is a gtk2 ssh askpass i used to use07:36
lamontsee "_reliable_"07:36
tsengthat goes full screen07:36
tsengseemed to prevent other stuff from working until it returned07:37
lamonttseng: but still doesn't stop everything else from starting and asking for the passphrase before you can enter it into ssh-agent07:37
Kamion 1 files changed, 5339 insertions(+), 1840 deletions(-)07:37
Kamion 1 files changed, 8454 insertions(+), 6226 deletions(-)07:37
lamontprevents keyboard focus, iirc07:37
tsengwell i was runing it from xinitrc also07:37
Kosailamont: I see.07:37
Kamion(although the "1 files changed" is bogus)07:37
tsengif you had a .xsession that read07:37
tsengssh-askpass &07:38
tsengexec gnome-session07:38
KosaiI use x11-ssh-askpass; even if other windows are opened, x11-ssh-askpass refuses to give up focus to them.07:38
tsengi imagine that would be it07:38
Kamiondo ssh-add, not ssh-askpass &07:38
KosaiSo, gnome loads, ssh-askpass comes up, I start typing my passphrase, if some xterms appear on top of it I just keep typing and hit return.07:38
lamontKosai: but if you're not there to type the passphrase quickly enough, then all the ssh windows block _WANTING_THE_PASSPHRASE_07:38
Kamionsimply don't put ssh-add in the background in .xsession. easy.07:38
lamontin short, it's not integrated.07:39
Kamion$ cat .xsession07:39
Kamion#! /bin/sh07:39
Kamionexec fluxbox07:39
=== lamont beats on jdub with ssh-askpass
mdzKamion: I don't know what it is, but that seems to confuse everyone (ssh-add vs. ssh-askpass)07:39
lamontKamion: that'll block everyting?07:39
Kamionssh-askpass asks for a passphrase, it doesn't *do* anything with it :-)07:39
Kamionlamont: yes07:39
mdzKamion: I know that, you know that07:39
lamontwhat's fluxbox?07:39
mdzKamion: but I've seen dozens of people go down the wrong road :-)07:39
Kamionlamont: lightweight window manager07:40
mdzmaybe ssh-askpass should be renamed to tnhoenushoeuo07:40
KosaiI know it too, since if I wasn't running ssh-add my passphrase would never get anywhere, just forgot it for this conversation.  :)07:40
mdzKamion: in fact, maybe it should go in /usr/lib07:40
mdzprobably too late for that07:40
Kosaimdz: Yeah, like people pay attention to what filesystem hierarchy means.  :)07:40
Kamionmdz: compatibility implications, ssh-add calls it and there are several filesystems involved ...07:40
Kosai(See:  "Dude, where the hell is traceroute?  This sucks.")07:40
Kamioner, not filesystems, packages07:40
=== Kamion temporarily went into Hurd mode there or something
mdzKosai: (see: "sbin directories are in the default PATH in Ubuntu") :-)07:41
Kosaimdz: Coo.  Okay, then.07:41
mdzwhen The World straightens itself out wrt FHS, we can revisit that07:41
lamontdoes .xsession need to be +x?07:42
Kamion-rw-r--r--  1 cjwatson cjwatson 33 2003-12-24 12:04 /home/cjwatson/.xsession07:42
elmoOut-of-date BUT modified: 175 (17.01%)07:44
elmoUpdated:                    0 (0.00%)07:44
elmoUbuntu Specific:           19 (1.85%)07:44
elmoUp-to-date [Modified] :    157 (15.26%)07:44
elmoUp-to-date:               678 (65.89%)07:44
=== lamont brb
mdzit really _ought_ to be +x, and executed07:44
mdzwhat if I want to write my .xsession in python? :-P07:45
elmo(main only)07:45
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mdzelmo: that's after this batch of uploads from Keybuk?07:46
mdzor before?07:46
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=== lamont begins to wonder if Kamion uses gdm to log in
lamont~lamont/.xsession is never executed in the normal login path that I can see.07:49
elmoupdated http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/packages_to_merge.txt07:49
Kamionlamont: yes, I do07:49
Kamionlamont: you may have to change the session option from the gdm login screen07:49
lamontfrom, to?07:49
Kamionthere are only a few options, try them ... :)07:49
KamionI think I use "Xsession"07:49
mdzpopularity-contest merged?07:50
mdzdidn't thom basically rewrite it?07:50
mdzoh, probably as a separate program for the submission07:51
seb128lamont: system session is ~/.xsession07:51
Keybukyeah, two separate programs07:51
mdzKamion: how hairy is the d-i merge so far?07:54
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Kamiontolerable; about me-hairy rather than elmo-hairy07:55
Kamion(the other extreme, obviously, being mdz-hairy)07:55
thommdz: seperate program, just the cron job changed07:55
lamontthe other cute one is the way gnome-session fires up a new firefox for each window that was open when you logged out, and n-1 ask for which profile you want...07:56
lamontso the session manager is launched in the background...  GRUMBLE!07:56
mdzelmo: we talked a while back about having notifications sent to -changes for syncs from sid, is that still on your list?07:57
KamionKeybuk: do you know what causes Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: to be shifted around in all your .po merges?07:59
KeybukKamion: msgcat, I think08:00
Kamionhm, ok08:00
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KeybukI can't work out whether Linux's support for printers sucks, or my ability to use printers sucks08:02
mdzKeybuk: neither. printers suck08:03
lamontI win.08:03
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=== lamont hugs dpkg-divert
Keybuklamont: ?08:03
pittimdz: any news regarding libgd?08:03
lamontlocal diversion of /usr/bin/gnome-session to /usr/bin/gnome-session.real08:03
lamontmore /usr/bin/gnome-session08:04
lamontexec /usr/bin/gnome-session.real "$@"08:04
lamont_THAT_ does what I want08:04
KeybukI put ssh-add into "Startup Programs"08:04
lamontdoesn't block08:04
mdzpitti: I found nothing so far08:04
lamontmy solution blocks. :-)08:04
Keybukwhy not just use .xsession for that? :p08:04
mdzKamion: what would be a good unique string to search for to detect debbugs bug closures by searching bugzilla comments?08:05
lamontgnome-session also fails miserably in tracking applications that open multiple windows, it appears...  Each window gets a new invocation of the program upon logging out (save changes) and back in.08:05
lamontKeybuk: because .xsession also doesn't block08:05
=== lamont tried that...
lamonthrm... /me verifies.08:06
Kamionmdz: do you get the Received: headers?08:06
Keybukat some point, we should teach lamont about Xnest08:06
=== mdz makes a note to NEVER EVER use ieee1394 for anything
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Keybukmdz: should I not write grepmap --ieee1394map then? :p08:07
jdubmdz: *boggle*08:07
mdzKamion:     want_headers = ('message-id', 'date', 'from', 'to', 'cc', 'subject')08:07
Kamionmdz: if you can get the Received: headers again, you could take the very first one and search for /\(at [^)] *-(?:done|close)\)/ in it08:08
pittimdz: well, if you have physical access to a computer, all security bets are off anyway, not?08:08
mdzKeybuk: that, or explain to the ipod users that they could get r00ted by their ipod08:08
pittimdz: still, this is scary. Thanks for that link!08:08
mdzKamion: the received headers are gone...it doesn't need to be perfect, though, I  just want to make a report that I can quickly skim over and close bugs which have been fixed in the merge08:09
Kamionmdz: I guess you could look for -done or -close in To:/Cc: then08:10
Kamionmdz: in future I suggest you take X-Debian-PR-* ...08:10
jdubgcc-3.4 depends on kdebindings? crack!08:11
Javihi, people, do you know how is Ubuntu sound system configured ? I'd like my debian sound system like my ubuntu sound system, but I can't find diff on configuration, but ubuntu is better than debian on this feature08:11
mdzKamion: the reason I trim them is that they appear at the beginning of every comment08:11
mdzKamion: but, point taken08:11
mdzJavi: please /join #ubuntu for support questions08:12
Kamionmdz: you can also use the standard dpkg regex for closes:, which may help08:12
Kamionmdz: maybe they could be stashed somewhere else eventually ...08:12
mdzKamion: searching for 'source-version' seems to do well enough08:12
Kamionmdz: not guaranteed not to get that on bug openings too08:12
=== lamont wonders why there are 2800 more non-{uni,multi}verse source packages in hoary
Kamionbut yeah, that'll appear in all recentish katie closing mails08:13
lamontthan warty08:13
Kamionmdz: that often won't appear when the maintainer closed the bug by hand08:13
Kamionwhich is why I suggested looking in To:/Cc: ...08:13
mdzKamion: good point08:14
mdzof course, that won't find stuff closed with control@, right?08:14
Kamionindeed not08:14
Kamion /^\s+close\s+\d+/08:15
Javimdz: ok, thanks you, i'll go there08:16
mdzKeybuk: I'm sending you some bugs which would be closed by merges; if they end up falling into the manual pile, send them back08:16
Keybukah right08:17
Keybukwas just muttering "why's he assigned these to me?" :)08:17
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Keybuk^ is the to-review stuff08:17
KamionI was gonna say, the grub-installer thing's probably mine, since I'll be reviewing that ...08:17
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KeybukKamion: yeah, just reassigned that one to you :p08:18
Keybukalsa-base hasn't got warty changes, has it?08:19
Keybukah, alsa-base = alsa-driver08:19
hornbeckcan one of you dev's write up a chroot doc for me, so I can start working with it?08:21
hornbeckplease :-)08:21
Kamionwhat kind of document?08:22
Kamionlike http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s-chroot ?08:23
Kamionor like http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/release/doc/manual/en/apcs03.html (note, you can use the Ubuntu system built thereby without considering it an "installation" if you want)?08:23
lamontKeybuk: so those are all ready for people to start working on?08:25
mdzKamion: regex searching doesn't seem to work properly anyway, and is horrifically slow08:26
hornbeckKamion: thanks08:26
jdubmdz: happy for me to make the gamin/polypaudio seed changes for hoary now?08:28
mdzjdub: yes08:29
mdzjdub: should we upload a new ubuntu-desktop to propagate them?08:29
jdubnot jsut yet ;)08:29
mdzhmm, that shouldn't be a question.  the seeds and ubuntu-desktop should match08:29
mdzif they're not ready to be pushed out to hoary users, they shouldn't go in the seed yet08:29
jdubcan u-d be updated automagically?08:29
mdzthere's a script in the source package which pulls the stuff from the wiki08:30
mdzit's totally trivial08:30
Kamionpresumably the new wiki now, though?08:30
jdubi'm, um, waiting for the new wiki to load...08:30
=== jdub twiddles.
Kamionwww.u.o isn't giving me any love either08:30
lamontmdz: re 2756 - we still have -2ubuntu108:30
Kamioncan somebody give me the new URLs so I can update germinate?08:30
jdubmmm, seems to be a distinct lack of all love08:30
=== lamont remembered looking at it, couldn't remember why he hadn't done something with it.
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Kamionelmo: do you need to run germinate for warty any more?08:31
Keybuklamont: yup, start taking them, fixing them and uploading08:31
Kamionmaybe I should tag the last warty revision or something08:31
mdzlamont: yes, but I saw nothing in the bug report which stated whether it affected that version or not, which is why I gave it to you08:31
lamontKeybuk: are there bugs filed, or how are we synchronizing things?08:31
Keybuklamont: ask mdz08:31
mdzKeybuk: how many source packages?L08:31
elmoKamion: not particularly - I'm only running it on hoary atm08:32
lamontmdz: yeah.  -2ubuntu1 is installed in hoary on all 3.  Probably need to see if it's on keybuk's sync list.08:32
Keybukmost of them are fairly trivial and just have one or two drops that should be obvious to fix08:32
lamontmdz: I'll take care of either requesting the sync back to debian, or what not.08:32
mdzKeybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/merge/review/ ?08:32
Keybukthere's a README one level up saying what the files mean08:33
mdzI'll file bugs about them08:33
Kamionelmo: ok ... well, colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/germinate--tags--4.10 is the warty version if you need it08:33
=== lamont will definitely want postfix... Need to merge a bunch of the warty fixes _into_ debian still :-(
KamionKeybuk: wouldn't ddetect have been better merged starting from 1.03?08:36
Kamionrather than 1.00?08:36
KeybukKamion: we probably never had 1.03 in our archive08:39
Kamionah, I see08:40
Keybukit doesn't actually seem to make much difference ;o)08:40
Kamionsnapshot.debian.net maybe08:40
Kamionwell, it means .po files have to be merged08:40
Keybukevolution it did both sides from 1.4 to 2.008:40
KeybukKamion: it merges po files from latest debian, so that generally works08:40
Kamionit produced lots of unnecessary .po patches08:40
Kamionlook at them :)08:40
Keybukshouldn't make a difference ?08:40
Kamionno, but it's more merge work for later08:40
Keybukwas the warty side 1.00 or 1.03 ?08:40
Kamion1.03ubuntu14 I think08:41
KamionI'm merging it now anyway, just a suggestion for the next merge run :)08:41
Keybukok, then it would've applied the debian changes to that, ignoring any that already were there08:41
Keybukah, but yeah08:41
Keybukif there were .po changes from 1.00 to 1.03, then it would do merging of those08:42
Keybukbut that's because it can't understand "already there" like it does with ordinary changes08:42
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Keybuk(btw, feel free to steal stuff out of rookery:~scott/sources if you want the unpacked debian or warty versions)08:43
KamionKeybuk: the other difference it makes is that it duplicates changelog entries :)08:49
=== jdub goes to sleep for a few hours
=== Keybuk runs the other way
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=== lamont still wonders why he gets _2_ of things he launches..
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mdzjustdave: here?08:59
mdzjustdave: emailed you a list of components which need to be present in order for me to mass-file these merge bugs09:00
bluefoxicybah my post to the ML got ignored09:01
elmomdz: err, will your script error out if I give it a non-existent component?09:02
mdzelmo: yes09:03
mdzelmo: which script?09:03
justdavemdz: I have a script that takes a text file with one component per line and checks the entire thing against the component list and creates any component from the list that's missing.09:03
mdzjustdave: ok, that's what I sent you09:03
elmomdz: the bugzilla.py thing from debzilla09:03
mdzelmo: yes09:03
elmoduh, that sucks09:03
justdaveIf we can come up with a standard place to get that text file from we could cron the script09:03
mdzelmo: doing anything else requires uber privilege09:03
lamontgerminate output comes to mind...09:04
mdzelmo: well, I suppose it could fall back to UNKNOWN, but that's pretty crap too09:04
mdzthe right thing is to just have the components exist09:04
justdaveyeah, I've used germinate for that in the past.09:04
mdzjustdave: the way to generate that text file is to grab Sources.gz from the archive and, do: zcat Sources.gz | grep-dctrl -nsPackage ''09:04
mdzelmo: you should be happy it detects that bugzilla blew up in that case; that was SO non-trivial09:05
mdzjustdave: grep-dctrl is in the package of the same name09:05
elmomdz: yeah, I wasn't saying your script was crap, just that it was a PITA, but if you guys are going to cron the component generation, that's fine09:06
mdzcron is probably fairly reasonable09:06
mdzit should do binaries as well09:06
mdzbut that's somewhat more of a pain due to having to iterate over known architectures09:06
elmoand fricking bugzilla needs to stop overloading the word 'component'.  debian was here first damn it :-P09:07
=== lamont notices that his name occurs in 93 of the warty.patch files. :-(
mdzjustdave: let me know when you've run that list through the script09:07
=== lamont lunches, fetches kids. back in a while
=== TanAdept [~tanadept@ndf-dial-196-30-124-95.mweb.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
justdavemdz will do.  should be up in a couple minutes09:26
pittimdz: without wanting to bother you, shall I upload the libgd package into the queue to have it built?09:30
justdavemdz: done09:31
justdave54 new components created09:31
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seb128elmo: gthumb good to overwrite with a sync from debian09:41
elmoseb128: done09:41
mdzjustdave: thanks09:43
mdz    You must choose a component to file this bug in. If necessary,09:43
mdz    just guess.09:43
mdzthere are universe packages in that list09:43
elmouse mine, if you want?09:44
mdzelmo: I'm just letting it fail for stuff which is missing from bugzilla, which is ~= universe09:46
mdzdidn't see what you said in time09:46
mdzthat means <<250 bugs to file, though09:46
mdzwhich is nice09:46
elmoshould be 169, by my count09:47
elmoRejected: cdrtools_2.0+a38-1ubuntu1.dsc refers to cdrtools_2.0+a38.orig.tar.gz, but I can't find it in the queue or in the pool.09:47
elmo^-- someone09:47
pittielmo: sorry, that's me09:48
pittielmo: forgot -sa09:48
KosaiHm.  Can OS X HFS partitions be resized non-destructively?  Gf just bought a powerbook, wondering whether installing Ubuntu on it can wait a while.09:48
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KamionI wouldn't trust warty's parted to deal with HFS+ correctly.09:48
KosaiMaybe the resizing could be done in OS X?09:48
KamionNot sure about HFS; but it's probably best to use OS X's tools to do it.09:48
KamionWhen I got mine, I "resized" by reinstalling OS X from the provided media ...09:49
Kamion(but with a smaller partition for OS X)09:49
KosaiYeah.  Don't think Mad'll want to do that, I'm not gonna see her again until Christmas, she'll have built up a lot of stuff on the OS X partition.09:49
Kamionyeah, can imagine09:49
Kamionthere may be pointy-clicky tools if you boot from the OS X CD09:49
Kamion"Disk Utility" is the name, I think09:50
Kamionbut best check google09:50
KosaiOkie.  Thanks.09:50
=== Kamion -> pub while he still has an outside chance of getting food there
Kosaigl :) I just decided I'm not going to make it in time, will eat at home first.09:50
cenerentolaAny Italian around HERE?09:53
seb128elmo: python-gtk2 sync too please09:55
elmohttp://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-October/msg01484.html 09:56
elmo^-- that's not terribly encouraging for polpyaudio and hoary09:57
elmoseb128: done09:57
seb128elmo: http://lists.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2004-October/msg00436.html10:00
seb128no problem described in this thread for the moment ...10:01
seb128(too=on the same subject, not a "not terribly encouraging")10:01
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elmoseems just as negative to me :)10:04
seb128uh, I've not read this one yet10:05
seb128I've just get this mail10:06
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mdzok, it is seriously annoying that bugzilla doesn't show the component in search results10:11
mdzjustdave: is that possible?10:11
justdavemdz: click the "change columns" link at the bottom10:11
justdaveyou can show whatever columns you want10:11
mdzjustdave: dthanks10:11
mdzjustdave: is it possible to set it as default for our instance?10:12
justdave(note it sets your column list in a cookie if you've ever set the columns via the change-columns page)10:15
cenerentolaall: just an hint: how do i sign mail in evolution after ive set the sign?10:15
elmooh, kick ass, benh has done sleep for modern powerbooks10:16
cenerentolasorry i mistook chan10:17
chrisaelmo: Oh? Is that a recent patch?10:17
sjoerdelmo: yeah, it works very nice :)10:18
sjoerdchrisa: yesterday 10:18
chrisaI wonder if that covers the ibooks as well (some of which use the same ATI chipset)10:19
elmohe says it doesn't - check out the debian-powerpc@l.d.o archives10:19
sjoerdchrisa: not yet, but he asked for testers 10:19
amuon the new pb4 it works 10:19
chrisaah, haven't read ppc in a day or two10:19
mdzjustdave: it seems to truncate the component at 8 characters, which is too short for most packages. can we increase that?10:20
justdavemdz: done10:23
justdaveremoved length restriction, renamed column header to "Package" :)10:23
elmojustdave: rock10:24
mdzjustdave: thanks10:24
elmoargh.  this component thing just became critical - libhowl0 is same version in warty/hoary and needs promoted to main10:25
elmo'cos the enitre gnome world now depends on it10:25
mdzelmo: please clobber kernel-source-2.6.710:33
mdzelmo: would it make your life exceedingly difficult to purge a bunch of the Debian kernel stuff?10:40
mdz(to clarify, for kernel-source-2.6.7 I meant to overwrite with the Debian version for now)10:40
seb128elmo: sound-juicer sync please10:49
seb128gnome-gv is 2.8.0-0ubuntu1 in warty and 2.6.2-3 in debian ... why do we get a bug report for a sync if the warty version > debian version ?10:56
mdzseb128: my list came from Keybuk10:56
mdzif there were some errors, I apologize on his behalf, and please close any erroneous bugs :-)10:57
seb128ok, and he left :)10:57
seb128no problem10:57
seb128I was just wondering10:57
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seb128elmo: gossip sync too please11:10
justdaveanyone had any thoughts yet on how we should handle warty vs hoary identification on Bugzilla?11:10
justdavewarty might be good as a flag...  so if someone things something should be fixed in warty, they can request it, and mdz can give it a + or a - if he agrees or doesn't11:13
tsengive seen what you are talking about on other bugzillas11:23
dokothom, elmo: would it be possible to have a hoary amd64 chroot on yellow?11:24
elmoseb128: done11:25
seb128elmo: thanks11:25
elmodoko: yeah, give me a bit11:25
elmomdz: purge how?11:26
mdzelmo: remove from the archive11:26
elmoeven universe?11:26
dokoelmo: thanks!11:26
elmokernel-source-2.6.7 clobbered11:26
mdzelmo: yeah11:26
elmomdz: hmm, no not particularly, I'll just have to maintain a blacklist of stuff we don't want to sync from sid to universe, no big11:27
mdzelmo: we've talked about it before, I think, but I assume it makes your life a lot more interesting with regard to processing new stuff added to sid11:27
mdzhmm, ok then11:27
elmosure, or here, whichever11:28
mdzcan all go11:29
jdubmdz: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-October/msg01484.html11:31
jdubI downloaded the code and took a look. I think its actually worse than11:31
jdubesd as an implementation. As a protocol well that may be a different11:31
mdz"No rate adaption"??//11:33
mdzwtf is the point of this thing, then?11:33
jdubconversation continues on d-d-l11:34
elmomdz: done11:34
dokowhat is the procedure for packages to be merged, if they should be synced from unstable again?11:36
dokojust email the usual suspects? ;)11:37
elmodoko: ask me11:37
elmono, just me, no approval needed - and you can do it via IRC, if I'm around11:37
elmohmm, why does a warty chroot come without shadow by default..11:38
jdubmdz: i don't get the rate adaption thing; polypaudio uses libsamplerate11:41
elmodoko: okay, hoary chroot exists on yellow now11:48
jdubis the only sane way of doing on-demand mounting of floppies... automount?11:49
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dokoelmo: thanks!11:52
mdzseb128: g-v-m quit unexpectedly during an upgrade just now; is that normal?11:54
mdzjdub: there is no sane way of doing on-demand mounting of floppies11:54
mdzfloppies are so 198011:54
seb128mdz: hal has been updated ?11:55
jdubmdz: would you be 100% opposed to automount running for floppies only?11:57
seb128elmo: screem and libxklavier synchros please11:58
mdzseb128: hal seems to be ahead of Debiain11:58
sjoerdmdz: check experimental :)11:59
seb128mdz: yeah, but did hal get upgraded when g-v-m crashed ?12:00
dokohmm, can we have latex2html and graphviz in restricted? the former to build the python docs, the latter to build the libstdc++ docs12:00

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