[12:02] <elmo> doko: no, that's not what restricted is for
[12:02] <mdz> seb128: oh, I lost the context, sorry :-)
[12:03] <mdz> lamont: most of them are trivial to fix, though
[12:03] <lamont> doko: restricted == binary-blob of code, but otherwise main.
[12:03] <lamont> mdz: yeah
[12:03] <mdz> it's not nearly as bad as it looks
[12:03] <elmo> seb128: done
[12:03] <seb128> thanks :)
[12:03] <doko> so it's ok to move them from sid/non-free to hoary/main?
[12:04] <elmo> doko: err, hell no
[12:04] <doko> s/main/universe/
[12:04] <elmo> doko: no - multiverse 
[12:04] <lamont> mdz: although I'm going to save postfix for a while, since I want to merge many of the warty changes over to debian, and that'll simplify the hoary patch.  (That and there aren't any significant fixes in sid atm.)
[12:04] <elmo> they should already be there, in fact
[12:05] <lamont> mdz: these aren't RC bugs, eh?  hrm.. guess not really for the most part
[12:05] <elmo> latex2html | 2002-2-1-8 | warty/multiverse | source, all
[12:05] <elmo>   graphviz |     1.14-1 | warty/multiverse | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[12:06] <doko> sorry, added to my sources.list ...
[12:07] <elmo> woops, forgot to enable auto-update of universe.. lala
[12:09] <mdz> elmo: please clobber john
[12:10] <elmo> done
[12:15] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync libgcrypt7?
[12:16] <elmo> pitti: sync over the ubuntu changes?
[12:16] <pitti> elmo: yes, please
[12:17] <elmo> done
[12:18] <pitti> elmo: thanks!
[12:21] <seb128> pitti: did you get some g-v-m crash recently during dbus/hal updates ?
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: hmm, yes, now when you say it
[12:21] <pitti> seb128: I remember that this happened to me once
[12:21] <seb128> mdz got it too
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: so it seems this was no random crash then
[12:22] <seb128> and one debian guys reported a similar problem today
[12:22] <seb128> yeah, apparently ...
[12:27] <sjoerd> seb128, pitti: i've seen crashes with hal 0.4.0 restarting.. somewhere in the dbus code, haven't had the time to debug it yet..
[12:27] <seb128> ok, so definitively a bug
[12:27] <seb128> sjoerd: please keep us informed if you find it :)
[12:32] <sjoerd> correction.. with dbus restarting
[12:33] <pitti> sjoerd: Ubuntu's dbus-1 package contains a fixed patch for dbus-monitor; I think this should apply to Debian as well
[12:34] <sjoerd> pitti: oh nice
[12:34] <sjoerd> pitti: patch as in make it actually work ?
[12:34] <pitti> sjoerd: shall I send you the patch?
[12:34] <pitti> sjoerd: yes, seems so
[12:34] <pitti> sjoerd: or can you grab it from our source package?
[12:35] <sjoerd> pitti: btw do you read my mind,  i was going to ask daniels if i could do another nmu rsn :)
[12:36] <pitti> sjoerd: I thought the same :-)
[12:36] <pitti> sjoerd: if you adopt the patch, we could actually resync to Debian, which would be nice
[12:36] <sjoerd> for other bugs though :)
[12:37] <sjoerd> pitti: i'll check the source package..
[12:39] <__daniel> bye
[12:40] <sjoerd> pitti: getting #277148 would probably be nice for ubuntu too (if it isn't already fixed)
[12:44] <pitti> sjoerd: right. If we can sync, we get Debian fixes automatically :-)
[12:44] <sjoerd> i'll see what i can do tomorrow
[12:44] <jdub> oh
[12:44] <jdub> sjoerd
[12:46] <jdub> sjoerd simons
[12:46] <jdub> hi! :-)
[12:46] <sjoerd> jdub: should i be afraid ?
[12:46] <jdub> heh
[12:46] <jdub> connecting your nick here to your name on hal list and debian's hal :-)
[12:46] <sjoerd> ah 
[12:54] <azeem> jdub: heh, so after Alan trashed it to pieces, are you still willing to get polypaudio into Debian? =)
[12:54] <azeem> if yes, I've got some time for over the weekend to upload it, if you need a sponsor
[12:54] <seb128> elmo: gnomemeeting sync please
[12:54] <jdub> azeem: yeah :)
[12:54] <jdub> lennart will come back with the goods ;)
[12:54] <pitti> Good night, everybody!
[12:54] <seb128> 'night pitti !
[12:54] <geppy> g'night
[12:54] <sjoerd> pitti: later
[12:54] <jdub> seb128: heh, new howl :)
[12:54] <seb128> cool :)
[12:54] <azeem> hmm, where is keybuk when you need him?
[12:56] <jdub> in london
[12:56] <jdub> or birmingham
[12:56] <jdub> or oxford
[12:56] <azeem> figured.
[12:56] <jdub> at least, that's been my experience
[12:57] <azeem> did we agree that those "W: polypaudio: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath" are okayish because those are modules/plugins? (can't remember)
[12:57] <jdub> we did, but it's still kinda suboptimal
[12:59] <jdub> hrm
[12:59] <jdub> Package: howl-utils
[12:59] <jdub> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libhowl0 (= ${Source-Version})
[12:59] <jdub> 
[12:59] <jdub> Package: mdnsresponder
[12:59] <jdub> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libhowl0 (= ${Source-Version})
[12:59] <jdub> 
[12:59] <jdub> howl-utils_0.9.7-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[12:59] <jdub>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libhowl0, libhowl0 (= 0.9.7-1ubuntu1)
[12:59] <jdub> 
[12:59] <azeem> polypaudio uses some moderately funky LDADD automake directives which might lead to those rpaths, so I hoped Keybuk would know about htat
[12:59] <jdub> mdnsresponder_0.9.7-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[12:59] <jdub>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libhowl0 (= 0.9.7-1ubuntu1)
[12:59] <jdub> 
[12:59] <mdz> jdub: you want shlibs.local
[12:59] <jdub> ^ gar.
[01:00] <mako> hey, there is a question on -users that didn't get an answer last week that i think should
[01:00] <mako> Where would be the correct place to report packaging bugs in multiverse
[01:00] <mako> packages?
[01:01] <jdub> mdz: thanks
[01:01] <mdz> mako: that's because that question doesn't have an answer
[01:01] <mako> yeah, i know :)
[01:01] <mdz> other than "wait"
[01:01] <mako> right, i'm going to post that
[01:02] <seb128> elmo: vnc also please
[01:03] <mako> "wait" EOF
[01:03] <mako> mdz: we talked about it at the last CC meeting a bit
[01:03] <lamont> off to a concert at the school, should be online for a bit in a while, working on bugs, etc.. :-)
[01:04] <lamont> syntax error at /usr/share/perl5/dtd.pl line 99, near "$ANY             "
[01:04] <seb128> elmo: yelp too
[01:08] <seb128> elmo: and startup-notification :)
[01:09] <mdz> mako: add it to the FAQ
[01:09] <mdz> mako: "wait"
[01:11] <jdub> aha, excellent response from lennnart
[01:16] <seb128> jdub: yeah, good reply :)
[01:17] <seb128> BTW are KDE people really that reluctant to use glib ?
[01:17] <jdub> well
[01:17] <seb128> that's a low level lib, not really a "gnomish" stuff ...
[01:17] <jdub> they already depend on glib for a number of things
[01:17] <mjg59> Arts already uses glib
[01:17] <mjg59> It just has its own copy in its source tree
[01:17] <jdub> so it'd be pretty silly if they didn't accept a glib-based polypaudio
[01:18] <jdub> mjg59: basically no one builds it that way, though
[01:18] <jdub> afaik
[01:19] <tseng> hornbeck: your post, fair idea, but it doesnt seem much needed
[01:19] <tseng> hornbeck: its pretty easy for us to make apt repos on joe random webhost
[01:27] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:28] <seb128> elmo: thanks .. I've started to list them in fact, new serie : libgnomecanvasmm2.0 gtkmm2.0 libgnomecups :)
[01:32] <elmo> done
[01:56] <kapputu> hi everyone
[01:58] <usual> I get a error trying to load a module at boot called hw_random or something like that....can someone tell me why and how to fix it
[01:58] <usual> it happened in rc and release
[01:59] <mdz> usual: please use #ubuntu for support issues
[01:59] <usual> mdz, my mistake, I read the topic wrong
[01:59] <usual> ;)
[01:59] <kapputu> hi md
[01:59] <kapputu> mdz
[02:00] <mdz> hi
[02:02] <kapputu> I want to contribute to Ubuntu 
[02:02] <kapputu> I'm a good programmer 
[02:02] <mdz> what sort of program would you like to write?
[02:02] <kapputu> I learn quickly though I have been actively using linux only since the beginning of this year 
[02:02] <kapputu> I'm good at Java, Perl 
[02:02] <kapputu> I know C well but haven't used it in 3 years
[02:03] <kapputu> and I learn new languages very quickly 
[02:03] <mdz> if you are an experienced programmer, a good way to contribute would be to write and maintain an open source application
[02:04] <kapputu> I have a problem with getting started on anything
[02:04] <kapputu> I need directions
[02:05] <mdz> a good start would be to find something that you feel is missing for you, personally.  that way it will be something which will hold your interest
[02:06] <kapputu> hmm 
[02:06] <seb128> elmo: syncs for gnome-libs libgnomeprint libgnomedb please :)
[02:06] <kapputu> I would like to do some web stuff
[02:07] <kapputu> are there any good remote development tools ?
[02:07] <kapputu> I'm looking for something like EditPlus in Windows
[02:07] <elmo> seb128: done ... your packages are clearly too easy ;-P
[02:07] <seb128> ah ah
[02:07] <seb128> thanks :)
[02:07] <mdz> elmo: he makes up for it in volume :-)
[02:08] <seb128> I'm keeping the hard ones for tomorrow :p
[02:08] <mdz> kapputu: eclipse and emacs come to mind
[02:08] <kapputu> for remote development ??
[02:08] <kapputu> i use emacs a lot but not sure how to set it up for remote development
[02:29] <seb128> ok, time to sleep, 'night
[03:56] <mdz> thom: around?
[03:56] <daniels> mdz: 0300
[03:57] <mdz> daniels: it wouldn't be the first time
[04:09] <jdub> mdz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-0307/msg01708.html
[04:11] <mdz> jdub: creating a temporary directory under $HOME is also popular
[04:11] <mdz> I've thought that it might be nice to just change tmpfs to prevent temporary file attacks
[04:12] <mdz> by revoking some of the cleverer filesystem semantics that allow them
[04:13] <jdub> tollef is upstream for that, btw
[04:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: poke
[04:13] <jdub> (for context, martin just pointed it out to rob and i, and suggested that it might be cool for ubuntu)
[04:13] <mdz> daniels: yes, I know he's asleep. he'll read scrollback :-)
[04:14] <jdub> ah, and lifeless just cced you on his mail
[04:15] <mdz> no mail yet
[04:15] <lifeless> matt.zimmerman@canonical.com ?
[04:16] <mdz> lifeless: that should get to me about 10 expansions later, yes :-)
[04:18] <lifeless> aha
[04:18] <daniels> mdz: heh
[04:18] <mdz> there it is
[04:44] <daniels> mdz: (whoomp)
[05:05] <hornbeck> tseng: sounds good to me, on random repos
[06:10] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:10] <Micksa> teehee
[06:10] <Micksa> where's the bugzilla?
[06:11] <lifeless> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:11] <Micksa> I should have guessed huh :)
[06:12] <fabbione> new comment on it :-)
[06:12] <Micksa> haha
[06:13] <Micksa> ding dong, the witch is dead
[06:17] <fabbione> Micksa: it's not like x.org is any simpler or smaller....
[06:23] <mdz> fabbione: one more time, with FEELING
[06:24] <daniels> Micksa: we can sing the ding dong song ... maybe after we get the modular tree.  definitely after someone's rewritten the server from the ground up.
[06:24] <fabbione> mdz: ahaha
[06:24] <fabbione> mdz: i got a bunch of merging bugs
[06:25] <fabbione> do you want me to spend time on them?
[06:25] <fabbione> i am kinda into X.org these days
[06:25] <mdz> fabbione: I gave you about 3 I think
[06:25] <fabbione> 11
[06:25] <fabbione> well 10
[06:25] <mdz> ok, 7 :-)
[06:25] <fabbione> mdz: up to you.. i don't mind either way
[06:26] <fabbione> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3008
[06:26] <mdz> fabbione: I think it should not be more than an hour's work
[06:26] <fabbione> mdz: i think this should go to "ubuntu-desktop"
[06:26] <fabbione> mdz: sure.. no problem
[06:27] <mdz> fabbione: a nice diversion for a little bit from X.org :-)
[06:28] <fabbione> mdz: you gotta be kidding! :)
[06:28] <fabbione> i can do an entire build (almost) in one hour!
[06:28] <fabbione> ahaha
[06:28] <mdz> hehe
[06:28] <mdz> something to keep busy during the build, then :-)
[06:28] <fabbione> exactly
[06:29] <daniels> mdz: same question from my side wrt the merge bugs I got
[06:30] <mdz> daniels: you said the X.org work was serial, please tend to your bugs
[06:30] <fabbione> mdz: it is at this point in time yes
[06:30] <fabbione> because we are fixing small build issues and syncing sanity checks
[06:30] <fabbione> it won't be from today or monday
[06:31] <mdz> fabbione: it takes an hour for a ccached build?
[06:31] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. slightly more than that
[06:31] <fabbione> i found a bug in the install target
[06:31] <fabbione> that makes the build much longer
[06:32] <daniels> mdz: ccache doesn't deal with linking, remember, and there's also fonts and stuff to take care of
[06:32] <mdz> fonts schmonts, who needs 'em
[06:32] <fabbione> i don't think i can make fix it for today
[06:32] <fabbione> mdz: 1 hours is without FONTS
[06:32] <fabbione> and without XPRINT
[06:32] <mdz> fabbione: how big is the tree?
[06:32] <fabbione> (that btw we had to re-enable)
[06:32] <mdz> (built)
[06:33] <fabbione> u -sk build-tree/
[06:33] <fabbione> 4614484 build-tree
[06:33] <fabbione> wait
[06:33] <fabbione> 3830636 build-tree
[06:33] <fabbione> this one
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz: there is a damn bug in the install target
[06:34] <fabbione> that basically relink everything
[06:34] <fabbione> creating duplicates of each binary files in the tree
[06:34] <fabbione> (it moves the old ones as .bak)
[06:34] <fabbione> that's one of the reason why it takes so much longer
[06:35] <fabbione> daniels: do you think you can try to fix it while flying?
[06:35] <fabbione> you don't need to build all the tree to see it
[06:35] <fabbione> just the server or a small xc/programs/<whatever>
[06:35] <daniels> fabbione: i can try, yes, but IBM have tanked my order, and I won't have the extended life battery before I leave
[06:35] <fabbione> crap
[06:35] <fabbione> ok
[06:35] <daniels> so I'm going to find one in either cph or london
[06:35] <daniels> i think that still gives me about 6h of battery, though
[06:36] <daniels> so I should get about 12h all up while flying
[06:36] <fabbione> daniels: lon -> cph is like 2 hours flight
[06:36] <fabbione> not even worth the time to turn on the lappy
[06:36] <daniels> mel -> sin is 8h, sin->lhr is 12h
[06:36] <daniels> and if I'm conscious while I'm at LHR, I can hack while I'm waiting
[06:36] <daniels> ditto SIN
[06:36] <fabbione> daniels: get some sleep too :)
[06:36] <daniels> yeah, given I arrive at like 5am
[06:36] <fabbione> while $STOP; do clear && ccache -s && sleep 1; done
[06:37] <fabbione> ccache top ^^
[06:37] <fabbione> too nice to have in a little window while compiling X
[06:37] <fabbione> 48x14 is perfect :-)
[07:02] <Micksa> so what proportion of the (official) team IS australian?
[07:03] <daniels> not quite enough
[07:03] <jdub> no dude
[07:03] <jdub> there's enough
[07:03] <jdub> we just have to overcome the brits
[07:03] <Micksa> haha
[07:03] <Micksa> the wiki says 40% somewhere
[07:04] <daniels> it's not 40%
[07:04] <Micksa> I didn't think so
[07:04] <jdub> daniels, lifeless, bob2, jamesh, jdub
[07:05] <Micksa> is that 5/40?
[07:05] <jdub> spiv
[07:05] <jdub> stub
[07:05] <daniels> Micksa: it's around 20%
[07:05] <jdub> though spiv and stub have lots of beer to drink to reaustralianise
[07:05] <Micksa> >:)
[07:05] <daniels> heh
[07:05] <daniels> as opposed to malibu and coke :P
[07:06] <jdub> (stfu.)
[07:06] <Micksa> well I'm totally unaustralian then
[07:06] <daniels> by that metric, I'm probably closer to Russian than anything else
[07:06] <jdub> nono
[07:06] <jdub> they've been overseas for ages
[07:06] <jdub> they just have to reaustralianise
[07:06] <jdub> then they can drink whatever they want
[07:06] <Micksa> ah, okay.
[07:07] <daniels> 'Welcome to re-education.  This is your friend for the next month, Mr. Coopers.'
[07:07] <jdub> HEAD, KEG, NOW!
[07:08] <Micksa> heh, I'm visualising the wrathful look on jdub's face as he shoves the guy's head into the beer
[07:16] <lifeless> not wrathful, merciful
[07:17] <pasc> heh
[07:17] <pasc> sounds like I need to hang out with jdub more often
[07:17] <pasc> if only I didn't live so far away...
[07:22] <hornbeck> night
[07:23] <Micksa> lifeless: I was sorta thinking of it as an act of exorcism :)
[07:23] <jdub> pasc: haha
[07:25] <daniels> pasc: you can bond over peter's
[07:27] <pasc> heh
[07:27] <pasc> I still haven't been there
[07:27] <pasc> (since I moved that is)
[07:28] <lifeless> pasc: PING
[07:29] <lifeless> :)
[07:30] <pasc> that time of the month again already?!?
[07:32] <pasc> hmm
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: 3008 ... ubuntu-desktop? or do you really want me to depend on libglide2?
[07:40] <mdz> fabbione: I need more information
[07:40] <mdz> I don't have one of those cards
[07:41] <fabbione> the tdfx driver needs libglide to work properly, but theoretically it shouldn't fail like that
[07:41] <fabbione> i have one but it's a newver version that that
[07:41] <fabbione> so i can't see that problem
[07:41] <fabbione> night lamont 
[07:42] <fabbione> mdz: we were already talking about moving libglide3 to desktop
[07:42] <fabbione> it means adding libglide2 too
[07:52] <fabbione> mdz: there is a new apache1.3 release that fixes 2 security problems. One is already backported.
[07:52] <fabbione> pitti: ^^same goes to you
[07:53] <mdz> fabbione: ok, I think we talked about this already, ythen
[07:53] <fabbione> not with me
[07:53] <mdz> fabbione: send an email to -devel proposing the seed change, I don't see a problem with it
[07:53] <fabbione> [CAN-2004-0492 (cve.mitre.org)] 
[07:53] <jdub> http://ubuntu-art.org/ <- boggle
[07:53] <fabbione> this is fixed
[07:53] <fabbione> [CAN-2004-0940 (cve.mitre.org)]  this one no
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[07:58] <mdz> jdub: intense
[07:58] <mdz> fabbione: please file a bug and assign to pitti
[07:58] <fabbione> mdz: if you want i can handle it. i will have to do it for Debian too i guess
[07:58] <fabbione> but if pitti will make a patch for me, i would be even more happy :P
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: 3011
[07:59] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: no problem
[08:00] <fabbione> i wonder how long time it will take before a RC bug is filed against apache in debian
[08:00] <fabbione> usually they take less than 30 secons
[08:00] <fabbione> seconds
[08:10] <fabbione> no
[08:10] <fabbione> actually.. not on a friday
[08:23] <fabbione> mdz: if a package can be synced safely from debian, what should i do? tell who?
[08:26] <mdz> fabbione: elmo
[08:26] <mdz> either mail or IRC, no need for approval
[08:27] <mdz> you can also reassign the bug to him, but that seems to take an extra day to process :-)
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: ehehe ok
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: is that ok that synced packages will pull in build-deps from universe?
[08:29] <fabbione> or do we need to fix the packages...
[08:30] <fabbione> (if fixable)
[08:38] <mdz> fabbione: it depends on which packages
[08:40] <pitti> Morning!
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: thanks for approval, I upload libgd2 to the queue now
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: USNs for libxml2 and libgd2 are on https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/
[08:42] <mdz> pitti: which bug # is libxml2?
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: #2809
[08:58] <fabbione> mdz: 2 binaries that we have in universe, but the source and the main binary in main
[08:58] <fabbione> python2.1 and 2,2-numeric
[09:01] <pitti> mdz: I still did not get a CAN for ppp, I upload the thing without one now.
[09:02] <mdz> pitti: ok
[09:02] <mdz> fabbione: ick, what depends on them?
[09:02] <fabbione> pyopengl2.1 and 2.2
[09:04] <mdz> gah
[09:04] <mdz> we didn't prune python2.1 or python2.2 from warty/main
[09:04] <fabbione> mdz: i am adding all the info to the bug with you and james in cc
[09:04] <mdz> we should do that for hoary
[09:08] <mdz> pitti: security bugs should not be closed until the package has actually entered the archive
[09:08] <pitti> okay
[09:08] <mdz> pitti: I will process ppp as soon as it is built, if you are ready
[09:09] <pitti> mdz: I still need to write the USN for ppp
[09:18] <pitti> mdz: ppp USN uploaded, again to https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/
[09:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong
[10:12] <mdz> pitti: I would write the first sentence of details as "'It has been discoveerd that ppp does not properly verify certain data structures used in the CBCP protocol."
[10:13] <mdz> (only without the typo)
[10:13] <pitti> mdz: okay
[10:14] <pitti> mdz: uploaded
[10:15] <fabbione> mdz: i love you :P
[10:15] <fabbione> not everything that has X11 in the middle of the name is kinda... related to X11 :)
[10:16] <mdz> fabbione: I did not consider whether they were related to X11; xfree86 you got because you own that component in bugzilla
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz: is there ANY reason why we still need qt-x11-free?
[10:40] <fabbione> it's a bunch of FTBFS
[10:41] <mdz> fabbione: check germinate
[10:41] <mdz> I think we would have more FTBFS if we removed it :-)
[10:48] <robtaylor|away> mdz: whehay.. morphix hotplug issue now fixed upstream :)
[10:49] <robtaylor|away> mdz: and your 1st hypothesis was spot on :)
[10:50] <Keybuk> robtaylor|away: oh?
[10:51] <Keybuk> newer hotplug than the one I just uploaded?
[10:52] <robtaylor|away> Keybuk: nope, just fixed it to use pivot_root in its last stage
[10:52] <Keybuk> ah, morphix upstream not hotplug? :)
[10:52] <robtaylor|away> Keybuk: yep :)
[10:53] <robtaylor|away> Keybuk: on the bugzilla, do would i merk the bug as 'upstream' or 'pending upload'?
[10:53] <Keybuk> no idea
[10:53] <robtaylor|away> heh :)
[10:54] <robtaylor|away> i'll put an appropriate comment in then, and let someone eslse fix it :)
[11:00] <mdz> robtaylor|away: great, could you add a note to the bug report with that information?
[11:00] <mdz> ah, you already decided to do so
[11:08] <robtaylor|away> mdz: heh :)
[11:10] <rburton> jdub: ping?
[11:10] <seb128> hello rburton 
[11:10] <rburton> hi seb128 
[11:10] <seb128> what's up ?
[11:11] <rburton> i just discoved that my speakers have a low hum when there is no cd playing, and i can't figure out where it is coming from 
[11:11] <rburton> probably the gas meter right behind the amp
[11:11] <rburton> that is my major worry at the moment :)
[11:11] <seb128> ah ah
[11:11] <rburton> i also wish SA wouldn't decide to rebuild its database when i want it to get mail
[11:15] <mdz> Kamion, elmo: have you guys made any attempts to point germinate at the new wiki yet?
[11:24] <thom> mdz: morning
[11:25] <seb128> hello thom 
[11:25] <thom> g'morning *
[11:25] <Keybuk> I've decided to rename "morning" to "killev"
[11:25] <seb128> mdz: the debian package for evolution doesn't have a evolution1.5 transitionnal package ... do we want to get it, or we can drop it now ?
[11:25] <mdz> thom: morning
[11:26] <mdz> seb128: I'm not sure I understand
[11:26] <mdz> evolution1.5 was in debian experimental and warty pre-releases?
[11:26] <seb128> mdz: I've added a dummy evolution1.5 -> evolution for evolution 2.0
[11:27] <seb128> kitame didn't in debian
[11:27] <seb128> so if we sync with deb we remove the dummy
[11:27] <thom> mdz: you pinged last night?
[11:27] <mdz> seb128: was evolution1.5 ever in debian unstable?
[11:27] <seb128> no
[11:27] <Keybuk> seb128: people have 'evolution' installed on their warty machines?
[11:27] <mdz> thom: yeah, don't remember what that was about
[11:27] <Keybuk> which has the real files?
[11:27] <mdz> seb128: then we do not require the dummy package
[11:28] <seb128> Keybuk: yes (only people with first warty RC who have not updated might still have evolution1.5)
[11:28] <mdz> seb128: if you can avoid a merge by dropping it, it is fine with me
[11:28] <seb128> ok, thanks
[11:28] <thom> mdz: fair enough. was there a resolution on what i should version firefox as?
[11:28] <seb128> elmo: libsoup sync please
[11:29] <mdz> thom: what's the upstream version?
[11:30] <thom> 1.0rc1
[11:31] <seb128> mdz: evolution-data-server has been splitted to a bunch of binary packages for differents libs. Do we need to update a seed or something before uploading it ?
[11:31] <Keybuk> thom: the build worked with a tilde in the directory name?
[11:31] <mdz> thom: how about 0.99+1.0RC-0ubuntu1?
[11:32] <mdz> s/RC/RC1/
[11:32] <mdz> that should be >> 0.99+1.0PR.1...
[11:32] <thom> mdz: oh, duh. of course that sorts higher than PR.1 
[11:32] <Keybuk> heh, 'R' > 'P' ... that's so cheating :p
[11:32] <thom> yeah, sounds good
[11:32] <Keybuk> RC.1 for consistency ?
[11:33] <mdz> don't care as long as it sorts
[11:33] <thom> Keybuk: no, since pr.1 was a point release to 1.0PR
[11:33] <Keybuk> ahh ok
[11:33] <thom> mdz: ok, will go with that
[11:33] <mdz> sounds good
[11:33] <mdz> bed also sounds good
[11:34] <mdz> night all
[11:34] <thom> g'night
[11:34] <Keybuk> nite dude
[11:34] <pitti> mdz: good night
[11:35] <robtaylor|away> mdz: night
[11:41] <seb128> mdz: 'night ! (and about e-d-s ?)
[11:42] <robtaylor|away> carlos: heyy :)
[11:42] <carlos> robtaylor|away: hi!
[11:42] <robtaylor> heh, i'm ovbiously not away now, am i ;)
[11:42] <robtaylor> carlos: so hows things with you?
[11:43] <carlos> robtaylor: fine, thanks
[11:43] <carlos> robtaylor: I will try to resume the auth work this weekend
[11:44] <robtaylor> carlos: wow, cool. I dont have a working computer at home at the moment, but i'm sure be able to find a bit of time at work to help out :0
[11:44] <robtaylor> :)
[11:44] <seb128> ok
[11:45] <robtaylor> carlos: so does the previous plan still hold?
[11:45] <seb128> so anybody has an idea if I need to update a seed before uploading the new e-d-s which has been splitted to differents libs ?
[11:46] <carlos> robtaylor: yes, until we could check if there are any performance problems, I don't see why it should be removed
[11:47] <robtaylor> carlos: cool :)
[11:48] <rburton> anyone know if there is a way to extract a single file from a deb with libapt-pkg?
[11:49] <robtaylor> carlos: all my archives of the discussions and planning are on a hd in a broken computer atm... have you got them archived, and if so, can you send them me?
[11:50] <carlos> robtaylor: you put them into my subversion repository
[11:50] <carlos> http://carlos.pemas.net/svn/public/accessd/
[11:51] <robtaylor> carlos: ah brilliant. is your svn repo set up for svn+ssh?
[11:52] <carlos> no
[11:52] <carlos> robtaylor: and I'm moving to arch
[11:52] <carlos> so it should die soon
[11:52] <robtaylor> carlos: oh god.. i need to learn arch....
[11:52] <carlos> :-)
[11:52] <robtaylor> heh
[11:53] <robtaylor> this gives me a good excuse to try fai :)
[11:53] <carlos> robtaylor: http://www.canonical.com/projects/bazaar/
[11:53] <robtaylor> (or whatever its current name is)
[11:53] <azeem> robtaylor: which fai?
[11:54] <robtaylor> azeem: freindly arch interface
[11:54] <azeem> ah
[11:54] <robtaylor> azeem: yes, its changing its name.. again .. ;)
[11:54] <robtaylor> suffering phoenix syndrome
[11:54] <robtaylor> carlos: ooh, that sounds good (bazaar)
[11:59] <robtaylor> carlos: so whats currently different between baz and tla?
[11:59] <carlos> robtaylor: baz will be compatible 100% with tla
[11:59] <carlos> robtaylor: but it will be user friendly
[12:00] <robtaylor> carlos: but right now, there not much extra userfreindlyness implimented?
[12:01] <carlos> robtaylor: it was started this week, so it has some things implemented but don't know if there will be a big difference at the moment
[12:01] <robtaylor> ah :)
[12:27] <seb128> pitti: here ?
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: yes
[12:27] <seb128> pitti: do you know if libxml2 2.6.15 fixes all the security issue you've adressed in your 2.6.11 patched version ?
[12:28] <seb128> it's in incoming
[12:28] <seb128> thanks
[12:29] <pitti> seb128: can't tell quickly; I download the orig.tar.gz and compare patches
[12:29] <pitti> seb128: I assume you want to resync it?
[12:30] <seb128> yes
[12:30] <seb128> it's in my list of bugs
[12:30] <seb128> there is no hurry, but if you have some time to do it .. :)
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: I can as well do it now, before I forget it :-) What's the bug #?
[12:31] <seb128> 2916   	
[12:32] <seb128> I've added a comment about 2.6.15 and tagging it pending, but prefer to check since I'm not sure all it fixes all the issues patched in 2.6.11
[12:35] <pitti> seb128: verified, I wrote a bug followup
[12:35] <seb128> ok, thanks
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: no, because you guys haven't populated it properly yet :-)
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: it's only got proposed packages at the moment, germinate needs a bit more than that
[12:59] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync vsftpd from Debian?
[01:32] <lupus_> why is totem trying to write to a file it opens?
[01:34] <lupus_> I have a vfat mounted ro and totem says an error acuired can not write to resource
[01:35] <lupus_> occured I mean
[01:35] <thom> elmo: please sync amd64-libs from debian
[01:46] <fabbione> pitti: are you preparing the USN for apache?
[01:47] <fabbione> elmo: can you sync all your money to my bank account?
[01:47] <fabbione> :P
[01:49] <pitti> fabbione: Everything is in place, but apache did not yet built on one platform before mdz went to bed
[01:49] <fabbione> ok
[01:50] <pitti> fabbione: mdz wasn't in a hurry with that because it's universe
[01:50] <fabbione> pitti mind to send me the patch or upload for debian too?
[01:50] <pitti> fabbione: our consensus was to do the upload, but don't send out an USN
[01:50] <fabbione> debian unstable
[01:50] <fabbione> pitti: whatever
[01:50] <fabbione> i don't mind USN or not.. hounestly
[01:51] <pitti> fabbione: interdiff is in #3011
[01:51] <fabbione> we should probably just kill apache1.3 in hoary
[01:51] <fabbione> pitti: ok cool
[01:51] <pitti> fabbione: but I can upload it to sid if you wnat
[01:51] <pitti> fabbione: I've got the ready package here
[01:51] <fabbione> pitti: that would be very nice. don't make it an NMU, just add yourself to the uploaders
[01:51] <pitti> fabbione: what about woody?
[01:51] <fabbione> pitti: i have all the development of apache on a turned off machine
[01:51] <fabbione> pitti: send the patch to Joey?
[01:52] <pitti> for my sake
[01:52] <fabbione> pitti: i simply don't have available power plugs for another computer atm
[01:52] <pitti> fabbione: good idea
[01:52] <fabbione> and i am without sid
[01:52] <pitti> :-)
[01:52] <rburton> [gasp] 
[01:52] <pitti> ah right, I need to pdebuild the package
[01:53] <fabbione> rburton: getting a new nuclear powerplant in the garden
[01:53] <fabbione> but it's not ready yet :P
[01:53] <fabbione> and i am with 2 plugs in the entire house
[01:53] <fabbione> (old plant was like 35 years old)
[01:53] <pitti> fabbione: don't need an extra heater in your house any more, do you?
[01:54] <fabbione> nope :-)
[01:54] <fabbione> the computer room is already 5 C > than the rest of the house
[01:54] <fabbione> and i need to keep the window open
[01:54] <fabbione> otherwise i would melt
[01:54] <pitti> fabbione: OTOH, I think sid should get 1.3.33 right away
[01:54] <fabbione> pitti: nah...
[01:55] <fabbione> i will prepare 1.3.33 when i have the time
[01:55] <fabbione> and the computer
[01:55] <fabbione> and a new upstream release is a pain
[01:55] <fabbione> trust me
[01:55] <pitti> fabbione: 1.3.33 does not contain anything other than the patch, compared to 1.3.32
[01:55] <fabbione> pitti: sid has 1.3.31
[01:55] <Kamion>  /* The best bits of mii-diag and ethtool mixed into one big jelly roll. */
[01:55] <fabbione> that's why
[01:55] <pitti> fabbione: is 1.3.32 so bad?
[01:56] <fabbione> pitti: the problem is not apache. It's to sync apache-perl, apache-ssl and mod_perl
[01:56] <fabbione> they are really time consuming
[01:56] <pitti> fabbione: okay. So I just upload the same version to sid for now.
[01:56] <fabbione> + i have another bunch of patches to review too
[01:56] <fabbione> yup
[01:56] <fabbione> thanks
[01:57] <pitti> fabbione: I think I take an NMU version and upload straigt away
[01:57] <pitti> Hi Mithrandir!
[02:00] <fabbione> pitti: nah. just upload without NMU
[02:00] <fabbione> no point if you are allowed :-)
[02:01] <pitti> fabbione: okay
[02:01] <fabbione> is katie running?
[02:01] <fabbione> ah fuck
[02:02] <pitti> tsts - no cursing
[02:02] <fabbione> thom: can you send me back the .diff.gz and .dsc for mdadm 1.7.0 ?
[02:02] <fabbione> thom or elmo
[02:02] <plovs_work> i am writing a howto on file-sharing with nfs/samba etc, to start with samba: any easy way to share a folder? (easy=newbie way,*not* editing samba.conf)
[02:03] <rburton> plovs_work: at the moment,  no.  should be in G2.10 though, via webdav
[02:04] <plovs_work> rburton, so the *only* way is editing samba.conf? so i write it correctly in the howto
[02:04] <robtaylor> lamont: ping?
[02:04] <rburton> plovs_work: as far as i know.
[02:05] <plovs_work> we will not have "share this folder through samba"-rightclick in gnome?
[02:05] <rburton> plovs_work: mandrake has a patch for that, but the current work to do sharing uses webdav
[02:06] <plovs_work> rburton, thanks
[02:07] <seb128> the share the folder with a right click from mandrake has been rewritten as a nautilus extension
[02:08] <seb128> elmo: gnome-terminal 2.8.0 from experimental sync too please
[02:09] <rburton> seb128: any idea how tied to mandrake's samba it is?
[02:09] <seb128> nop
[02:10] <amu> g'morning  
[02:10] <plovs_work> seb128, rburton in case you find out feel free to add a link to: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SharingFilesWithSamba
[02:11] <seb128> the extension is in the mandrake cvs
[02:11] <seb128> fcrozat did a blog entry about that
[02:11] <rburton> personally, i feel that the webdav solution to quick per-user file sharing is superior
[02:11] <seb128> that was like 2 weeks ago
[02:11] <seb128> me too
[02:11] <rburton> as then everybody can access it
[02:11] <rburton> for "proper" shares, use NFS or SMB, but that is a different use case
[02:12] <plovs_work> rburton, not be whining but i just want it all ... yesterday
[02:13] <rburton> the mandrake filesharing code is heavily tied to mandrake
[02:13] <rburton> it's just a UI to DiskDrake
[02:14] <Mithrandir> the usb-storage is on the live-cd initrd, isn't it?
[02:16] <seb128> elmo: esound too ...
[02:17] <seb128> elmo: and libxml2 2.6.15 (it's in incoming)
[02:18] <mjg59> I need to sort out how to do user-level DAV properly
[02:18] <mjg59> I got it working at home, but it's running as the webserver rather than me
[02:24] <Kamion> fabbione: "di Debian" can safely become "di Ubuntu" in Italian, can't it?
[02:24] <Kamion> or is it "d'Ubuntu"?
[02:24] <fabbione> di Ubuntu is sane enough yes :-)
[02:25] <Kamion> good
[02:25] <rburton> mjg59: walters has a tool which run a per-user apache iirc
[02:26] <fabbione> how has pcmcia slots handy?
[02:27] <fabbione> thom: ?
[02:30] <Mithrandir> mjg59: could nstx' README.Debian include the needed interfaces(5) fragment?  It would be useful for lazy bums like me.
[02:31] <cenerentola> all: hey ppl who can suggest a nice unix programming book?
[02:32] <cenerentola> all: what's best Linux Programming Unleashed or The Art of Unix Programming  
[02:33] <pitti> cenerentola: www.tldp.org has some nice stuff
[02:33] <cenerentola> i need one for the uni
[02:33] <seb128> elmo: libxslt and gnome-common too and that should be ok, thanks :)
[02:33] <rburton> poor elmo
[02:35] <pitti> seb128: create an elmo proxy script which can do the sync stuff automatically :-)
[02:36] <Kamion> cenerentola: neither; get one of W. Richard Stevens' Unix programming books
[02:36] <Kamion> very dense, very detailed, but excellent
[02:36] <seb128> rburton: poor elmo, poor elmo, apparently he's sleeping ... nothing to complain about :p
[02:38] <cenerentola> Kamion:Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environmen
[02:38] <Kamion> APUE is good, yes
[02:38] <elmo> seb128: done except for libxml2 - I'll do that once it reaches a mirror
[02:38] <seb128> elmo: ok thanks :)
[02:38] <Kamion> obviously it depends what you're actually looking for, but ...
[02:38] <seb128> (oups, he was not sleeping :p)
[02:39] <Kamion> I'd rather that than e.g. a book by ESR :-)
[02:40] <cenerentola> ESR?
[02:40] <seb128> Kamion: do you know if we need to update the seed before getting new packages from debian ? ie: evolution-data-server has been splitted in a bunch of small binary packages for the different libs ...
[02:40] <Kamion> seb128: we don't have hoary seeds yet ...
[02:40] <seb128> ok, so nothing to worry, I was not sure
[02:40] <seb128> thanks
[02:40] <elmo> pitti, thom: also done
[02:41] <cenerentola> kamion: modern operating systems, or Operating Systems: design & impl.?
[02:41] <pitti> elmo: oh, thanks
[02:41] <Kamion> cenerentola: haven't read either
[02:41] <Kamion> cenerentola: (also, this isn't really the place ...)
[02:41] <cenerentola> sth about hw?
[02:41] <cenerentola> kamion: ohh cmon
[02:41] <Kamion> no
[02:41] <pitti> Kamion: can we at least rerun germinate? E. g. libhal-storage0 is currently in universe, but hal depends on it
[02:41] <Kamion> pitti: against what? :-)
[02:41] <cenerentola> kamion: just making some question to a friend...
[02:42] <pitti> Kamion: well, I mean recalculating the main packages from the current seeds
[02:42] <pitti> Kamion: isn't that possible?
[02:42] <Kamion> pitti: that's up to elmo
[02:42] <pitti> Kamion: okay, thanks
[02:42] <elmo> I thought I fixed that yesterday
[02:43] <pitti> elmo: hmm, can also be the lag of my mirror
[02:43] <elmo> apparently not - fixed now
[02:43] <pitti> thx :-)
[02:44] <fabbione> pitti: your upload has been rejected
[02:44] <Kamion> elmo: I'm assuming one of mdz and jdub is taking responsibility for doing new seeds; do you know?
[02:44] <fabbione> pitti: you need to increase mod_perl version in debian/rules
[02:45] <fabbione> pitti: also for warty/hoary
[02:45] <pitti> fabbione: argh, I did not know that. That's what you get if you poke around in foreign packages...
[02:45] <fabbione> pitti: noone will die for it
[02:45] <fabbione> pitti: i also forget about it sometimes
[02:46] <pitti> fabbione: just bump the version to the next one?
[02:46] <elmo> Kamion: not afaik, no one's said anything about it other than to just copy warty's but I assume anyone can do that?
[02:47] <pitti> fabbione: update APACHE_MINOR as well?
[02:58] <fabbione> pitti: hold on a second only :-)
[02:58] <pitti> fabbione: oh, the right time
[02:59] <pitti> fabbione: I just ^C'ed the sid upload
[02:59] <pitti> fabbione: but I found out that APACHE_MINOR is not actually used
[02:59] <fabbione> pitti: it is
[02:59] <fabbione> but the perl version is only in debian/rules at the end
[02:59] <fabbione> it needs to be set manually
[02:59] <fabbione> the VAR at the beginning is misleasding
[03:00] <pitti> fabbione: I manually updated the libapache-mod-perl revision to -14
[03:00] <pitti> fabbione: this worked fine so far; anything else?
[03:00] <fabbione> pitti: ok. the APACHE_MINOR is used during debian/rules
[03:00] <fabbione> even if it is empty
[03:01] <pitti> martin@box79162:/tmp/apache-1.3.31$ grep -r APACHE_MINOR .
[03:01] <pitti> ./debian/rules:APACHE_MINOR = 7
[03:01] <pitti> ./debian/rules: debian/scripts/populate $(APACHE_MAJOR) $(APACHE_MINOR) $(PERL_MAJOR) $(DEBMAJOR)
[03:01] <pitti> ./debian/rules:#        dh_gencontrol -v -plibapache-mod-perl -u-v$(PERL_MAJOR)$(DEBMAJOR)-$(APACHE_MINOR)
[03:01] <fabbione> yes that should be more than correct
[03:01] <fabbione> you might hit the same problem for hoary/warty...
[03:02] <fabbione> (if you didn't change it before)
[03:02] <pitti> fabbione: maybe, I already wondered why it did not built
[03:02] <fabbione> it probably did build fine
[03:02] <pitti> fabbione: argh, the populate script changes this again to APACHEMINOR
[03:02] <fabbione> but the upload was rejected
[03:02] <pitti> fabbione: but there is another one: ./debian/pkgtemplates/flavours.postinst:    if dpkg --compare-versions $2 eq @APACHEMAJOR@@DEBMAJOR@-@APACHEMINOR@; then
[03:02] <fabbione> pitti: no no.. that's ok
[03:02] <seb128> do we have some official "minimal hardware requirement" for the liveCD ?
[03:02] <pitti> fabbione: anyway, for sid I updated it to 7 anyway
[03:02] <seb128> just to reply to users who ask about this
[03:03] <Keybuk> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[03:03] <Keybuk>   python2.3-genetic
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti: APACHE_MINOR set to 7 for sid is ok
[03:03] <Keybuk> aww
[03:03] <pitti> fabbione: for warty I probably need APACHE_MINOR=6.1
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti: and -14 for libapache_mod_perl
[03:03] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[03:03] <fabbione> that's correct
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti: don't care about the populate script
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti: once it gets the proper values from debian/rules it does only a bunch of sed
[03:04] <fabbione> pitti: so that's not important
[03:04] <pitti> fabbione: okay, then I can actually upload the sid version as it is
[03:04] <fabbione> i think so yes
[03:04] <fabbione> hey
[03:04] <fabbione> in the worst case Katie will say nO
[03:04] <pitti> fabbione: argh, I need to remove the half-uploaded debs from the uplaod queue  before...
[03:04] <fabbione> pitti: send the .commands :-)
[03:05] <pitti> fabbione: right
[03:05] <elmo> oi
[03:06] <azeem> unstable's debootstrap does not support warty/hoary, right? What's the best way to install an Ubuntu chroot on Debian?
[03:06] <fabbione> azeem: grab our debootstrap :-)
[03:06] <elmo> azeem: install our debootstrap or steal the warty script
[03:06] <elmo> pitti: what are you talking about uploading? 
[03:06] <azeem> okie
[03:06] <elmo> Keybuk: python-genetic contains it now
[03:06] <pitti> elmo: fabbione asked me to upload a fixed apache version to sid
[03:06] <fabbione> elmo: i did CC you on a bunch of packages that needs sync
[03:06] <elmo> oh, sid, fine
[03:07] <pitti> elmo: but I did not know that I had to bump a package version deeply hidden in debian/rules, so katie rejected it
[03:07] <elmo> fabbione: yes, I know and I'd just like to say BUGZILLA SUCKS
[03:07] <fabbione> elmo: yes.. don't worry.. he will have to fix it for hoary and warty too :-))
[03:07] <elmo> well, that and maybe matt does too
[03:07] <fabbione> matt does suck?
[03:07] <elmo> I've got a bunch of mails from bugzilla and absolutely nothing tells me what freaking package their about
[03:08] <elmo> so instead, of just reading my mail, I have to go click on 10 web links to find the packages to sync
[03:08] <elmo> meh
[03:10] <chrisa> I use bugzilla at work, it's a good way to demoralize employees
[03:10] <fabbione> + #  define PrintOnlyServer                   NO
[03:11] <fabbione> according to documentation this means: "BUILD ONLY THE XPRINT SERVER"
[03:11] <fabbione> why on earth it keeps building all the crap around it?
[03:11] <fabbione> it's all fault of lixp6
[03:11] <fabbione> i can't kill that library
[03:12] <fabbione> or suddenly ubuntu and debian will FTBFS
[03:13] <Keybuk> elmo: aahh
[03:13] <fabbione> hmm
[03:15] <fabbione> there is something wrong in my head
[03:15] <fabbione> that should be a YES
[03:18] <Kamion> elmo: please resync parted with Debian
[03:18] <elmo> fabbione: #2996 - I can only sync from proper repos, sid, whatever - I can't sync an unsigned source package into main - if you're happy with the package there, please sign and upload it
[03:19] <elmo> Kamion: done
[03:19] <Kamion> ta
[03:20] <elmo> kamion: btw, what's up with 2814?
[03:20] <fabbione> elmo: ok
[03:20] <elmo> Kamion: jigdo seems to be using old d-i files..
[03:21] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, I need to regen the jigdo files, will look once I emerge from under the merging pile
[03:21] <elmo> ok, cool, just checking I didn't need to put the old d-i files back :>
[03:22] <Kamion> I also need to figure out how to convince jigdo never to use daily-installer-* when building a release candidate, or something
[03:22] <pitti> Hey amu, now officially on board? Welcome!
[03:22] <Kamion> furthermore I need to have lunch ... :-)
[03:23] <pitti> fabbione: uploaded updates to sid and warty; hoary will follow soon
[03:23] <pitti> fabbione: the only odd thing is, why did hoary's katie did not reject the upload?
[03:23] <fabbione> pitti: source only upload?
[03:23] <fabbione> pitti: it will reject the binaries later
[03:23] <pitti> fabbione: right
[03:26] <fabbione> is the Debian -> Ubuntu bug sync working?
[03:26] <pitti> fabbione: at least for me it tends to forget followups
[03:27] <fabbione> i did open a RC bug on qt-x11-free more than 3 hours ago
[03:27] <fabbione> and it is still not synced
[03:31] <robtaylor> amu: the morphix hotplug bug is fixed
[03:32] <pitti> fabbione: sid, warty, hoary uploaded *sigh* I hope it works this time :-)
[03:32] <amu> robtaylor: thx, problem was hotplug itself ?  
[03:32] <robtaylor> amu: chroot
[03:33] <robtaylor> amu: morphix cvs noe pivot_roots as its last boot step
[03:33] <robtaylor> amu: it used to only ever chroot, hence its brokenness
[03:34] <amu> damed, well i'm working on the new sys, just with packages from the pool
[03:34] <pitti> fabbione: just got Debian's ACK :-)
[03:34] <fabbione> goody
[03:34] <fabbione> pitti: btw.. congratulation for adopting apache
[03:34] <pitti> fabbione: ah, was there something you should have told me before?
[03:34] <fabbione> MUHA UHA UHA
[03:35] <pitti> ARGH!
[03:35] <pitti> There is an Indian slapping my back now!
[03:36] <pitti> fabbione: my next upload will be a 10 kb arch-all package that automatically installs apache2
[03:36] <fabbione> pitti: that's the plan after sarge release
[03:36] <amu> robtaylor: asap, i got access, another live-test comes.   
[03:36] <pitti> fabbione: or the PostScript webserver (maybe even better)
[03:37] <pitti> lamont: here?
[03:37] <fabbione> ehehe
[03:40] <T-Bone> mako: ping?
[03:41] <T-Bone> lamont: ping
[03:41] <pitti> elmo: since apache is in universe, mdz and me agreed to upload the security-fixed package, but do not make an USN for it; he also agreed that you can amber it as soon as it is built
[03:46] <robtaylor> amu: cool, that'll save me some work ;)
[03:50] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: do you have a setup for running nstx on the same host as you have your name server?  I'm having a bit of difficulty getting it going..
[03:52] <Keybuk> no, different hosts
[03:54] <elmo> pitti: 1.3.31-6ubuntu0.2  <-- that
[03:54] <pitti> elmo: right, if it already built?
[03:55] <elmo> yeah, it did
[03:56] <elmo> pitti: done
[03:56] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[03:57] <pitti> carlos: do you know whether there is a reasonable train between Girona and Mataro?
[03:58] <carlos> I suppose it, let me check
[03:59] <Keybuk> hmm, what the frell is ccwmap?
[03:59] <amu> robtaylor: another good example why oss rocks ;) 
[04:00] <robtaylor> amu: indeedydoody :)
[04:01] <carlos> pitti: you have this english page, but seems to be broken under Linux :-(, I will check directly from the Spanish version
[04:01] <carlos> pitti: http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/ingles.html
[04:01] <Keybuk> ah, it's an S/390 thing
[04:01] <pitti> carlos: well, I just looked at RyanAir, they have completely unreasonable flights anyway
[04:01] <amu> pitti: could we test our voip connection today ? 
[04:02] <pitti> amu: at Friday evening? Don't you have a gf that will kill you for that? :-)
[04:02] <pitti> amu: but of course we can do another short test; however, I did not get any linux version to work
[04:02] <pitti> amu: skype has its own protocol
[04:02] <pitti> amu: so I guess I just take the MacOS thingy
[04:03] <pitti> amu: BTW, did you already look for a flight?
[04:03] <pitti> amu: so far, Lufthansa has the only reasonable flights; however, they are quite expensive
[04:04] <robtaylor> amu: note that the changlogs in the cvs repo are out of date (alex forgot to check in). he just checked in, and obviously sf sucks so much it wont be checkoutable for 24 hrs :(#
[04:04] <amu> pitti: hehe, well for me it's only imporatant which time it is, working 24/7 it's just normal  
[04:04] <amu> pitti: flight for spain ? 
[04:05] <pitti> amu: yes
[04:05] <pitti> amu: I don't want to travel 4,5 h to Frankfurt and be there at 4am 
[04:05] <carlos> pitti: seems like there is no train 
[04:05] <pitti> carlos: okay
[04:05] <pitti> carlos: well, Lufthansa has a good flight for about 300
[04:05] <pitti> carlos: it's not cheap, though...
[04:06] <amu> robtaylor: ;) i've still no access, maybe the next days ..   
[04:06] <amu> pitti: letme check, i've a good hand for cheap flights   
[04:06] <pitti> amu: would be great, I don't
[04:06] <pitti> amu: although you and me are living in completely different corners of .de
[04:06] <pitti> amu: where do you look?
[04:07] <pitti> amu: i. e. which company?
[04:09] <amu> http://www.aidu.de http://www.opodo.de http://www.expedia.de
[04:48] <robtaylor> lamont: ping?
[04:59] <Mithrandir> lamont: http://am.xs4all.nl/morphix/usb/linuxrc.patch.morphix could be very nice to have applied on the live cd, so booting from USB cdroms would work.
[05:02] <thom> Mithrandir: dude, can you take #2855?
[05:03] <lamont> robtaylor: ack
[05:03] <robtaylor> lamont: hey :) hotplug bug fixed, do a cvs pull for your next livecd build
[05:03] <robtaylor> of scripts-base
[05:04] <Mithrandir> thom: done
[05:04] <thom> Mithrandir: i'll swap you one if you want? :-)
[05:04] <Mithrandir> thom: it's easy enough, I just have to drop my changes on bdale.
[05:04] <robtaylor> lamont: well, fixed in theory, at least - havn't had chance to fully test it yet
[05:05] <thom> fair enough
[05:05] <robtaylor> lamont: i also wanted to ask do you have any local morphix changes that arent upstream yet?
[05:11] <lamont> robtaylor: probably.  If it has a 'ubuntu' in the version number, then I probably haven't pushed it yet - my bad
[05:12] <T-Bone> lamont: i'm up to building missing deps (and there's alot, which is scary). basically i have to go through the log files by hand, a cripple my stage1 archive with these bastardized deps, right?
[05:12] <lamont> T-Bone: pretty much.
[05:12] <T-Bone> sweet
[05:13] <lamont> it means that you turn stage2 into stage1.5, or that there'll be a stage 3.  But it's 
[05:13] <thom> elmo: please sync libapache2-mod-python from unstable
[05:13] <lamont> "whatever it takes to get a working archive.  If cheating is involved, iterate another stage"
[05:13] <T-Bone> got it
[05:13] <lamont> T-Bone: at any point in there, if you have sufficient packages in your archive, you can start working on d-i.
[05:14] <T-Bone> gonna try to scriptize a bit the missing deps building tho
[05:14] <T-Bone> right
[05:14] <Mithrandir> lamont: any comment on the patch I pointed to above?  A friend of mine would be _very_ happy to be a tester. :)
[05:17] <lamont> Mithrandir: would have to go look at it, but I expect we could add it.
[05:18] <RubenV> Anyone here from the laptop team?
[05:19] <Mithrandir> lamont: goodie, if you could take a look and prod me when you have a test image, I would be most grateful.
[05:21] <lamont> Mithrandir: wanna email it to me, or file it in the bts assigned to me - it's behind the hoary merge work, and I fear it'll fall through the cracks without something... (bts preferred, actually..)
[05:21] <lamont> normal would be a good severity.. :)
[05:22] <robtaylor> lamont: right. if you could push sometime betwen now and monday (or get some packages built with the new changes in), so i can build on monday, i'd be forever in your dept ;)
[05:22] <thom> RubenV: sure, sup?
[05:22] <Mithrandir> lamont: ok, filing a bug.
[05:22] <lamont> thanks
[05:25] <Mithrandir> seems like there's no component for the live cd, so UNKNOWN it was.
[05:25] <Mithrandir> bug filed
[05:27] <robtaylor> Mithrandir: i noticed that.. who's the bugzilla admin?
[05:27] <Mithrandir> robtaylor: justdave
[05:28] <Mithrandir> probably file a bug on websites, asking for a live-cd component for the bugzilla, assign it to him
[05:28] <lamont> Mithrandir: LiveCD in the subject, assigned to whatever package it belongs to, has been what we've been doing...
[05:30] <Mithrandir> lamont: I don't know what package is the right one, so I guess UNKNOWN is right, then
[05:30] <justdave> robtaylor: I'll be remedying that this afternoon.
[05:30] <robtaylor> justdave: ok i wont bother filing  bug then :)
[05:31] <justdave> amu and I discussed how to do that last night, I'll be pushing it out today.
[05:31] <robtaylor> brilliant 
[05:31] <justdave> you could file, just mention it's for livecd in the summary and assign it to amu if you know his address
[05:32] <robtaylor> justdave: i mean a bug for a livecd component in the bugzilla...
[05:32] <justdave> oh, in that case, yeah, there's already a bug for that :)
[05:32] <robtaylor> heh :)
[05:33] <justdave> bug 2635
[05:49] <Keybuk> gah, bloody hallo-fucking-een
[05:49] <azeem> I got a free halloween straw from subway yesterday, because they were out of salad
[05:49] <azeem> Keybuk: wanna have that one?
[05:50] <Keybuk> can you kill small children with it?
[05:50] <azeem> there's a small, whiteish ghost on it, but I doubt kids will die of horror because of that these days
[05:50] <thom> Keybuk: i find a pumpaction shotgun to work quite well. it's a treat.
[05:51] <Mithrandir> why not rather just not be home?
[05:51] <Mithrandir> and that's what you get from importing US traditions.
[05:54] <elmo> thom: done
[05:55] <thom> elmo: grazi
[05:55] <Micksa> quick question
[05:55] <Micksa> maybe I'm too late but
[05:55] <elmo> Out-of-date BUT modified: 103 (10.00%)
[05:55] <elmo> getting there :)
[05:56] <Micksa> did you guys switch to the new wiki partly because you wanted one from which you can generate docs of some format(s)?
[05:57] <Kamion> I'm not sure which direction is least bad for the partman-auto merge
[05:58] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: hmm?  Trick-or-Treating is Irish in origin, iirc and predates the colonisation of Merkia
[05:58] <Kamion> looking at the extent of the changes in both directions I suspect I might as well just redo all the changes by hand
[05:59] <Keybuk> the tradition comes from the belief that evil spirits are abroad on Samhain, but can be fooled to leave you alone if you dress up like them
[05:59] <Kamion> hm, mind you Keybuk's merge didn't do too bad a job on it
[06:01] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: hmkay, same difference, it's foreign. :P
[06:02] <Kamion> I'm torn between kicking his arse and not wanting to be associated with inventing trick-or-treating
[06:03] <Kamion> p.s. next time I'm tempted to fork a file *and* change its name, somebody shoot me
[06:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ice blocks.  You know, not ice pebbles.
[06:04] <Mithrandir> and you should never put ice in your beer
[06:07] <Kyaneos> hi
[06:10] <Kyaneos> what version of Gnome has Hoary??
[06:10] <Mithrandir> it has 2.8 now, it will have 2.10
[06:10] <pitti> lamont: here?
[06:11] <Kyaneos> Mithrandir, 2.10 or 3.0
[06:11] <Kyaneos> ?
[06:11] <lamont> pitti: yo
[06:11] <Mithrandir> Kyaneos: it's said to be called 2.10
[06:12] <Kyaneos> ok
[06:12] <Mithrandir> Kyaneos: I'm not a gnome person, so don't ask me what their next version will be numbered, but that's the number I've heard.
[06:12] <Kyaneos> thank you very much
[06:12] <lamont> Mithrandir: although jdub had a blog that wanted to call it '10'.
[06:12] <pitti> lamont: I uploaded a security update of libxml2 yesterday, but it was not built on amd64 this morning. Can you please have a look at that?
[06:12] <lamont> should be there now.
[06:12] <pitti> lamont: oh, fine
[06:12] <lamont> brain fart on my end
[06:12] <Mithrandir> lamont: that was obvious trolling.
[06:12] <pitti> so, no packaging error?
[06:12] <lamont> pitti: none at all. It built fine...
[06:13] <lamont> pitti: but you have to actually _upload_ stuff, you know?
[06:13] <lamont> you == buildd here
[06:13] <lamont> (missing crontab entry)
[06:13] <pitti> lamont: hmm, that could really help
[06:13] <lamont> yeah.  uploaded a whole boatload of packages for amd64...
[06:13] <lamont> sorry Mithrandir. :-)
[06:18] <thom> elmo: please sync exim4 from unstable
[06:22] <lamont> thom: how well do you remember what you did to backuppc?  (And would you like 2857?)
[06:23] <thom> lamont: sure
[06:23] <thom> i probably just mad it depend on httpd rather than apache though
[06:23] <lamont> thanks - looks like debian did _something_ addressing the same issue, but it'll take be a bit of digging to see what the diff is...
[06:23] <T-Bone> mako: ping?
[06:23] <lamont> +  * Use a2enmod rather than manually symlinking
[06:23] <lamont> +  * Bin wwwconfig-common (Warty #848)
[06:24] <mako> T-Bone: hey there
[06:24] <lamont> it's the 2nd one that's the ugly part.
[06:24] <thom> ah
[06:24] <thom> yeah, i'll do it
[06:32] <Micksa> uhm, can zwiki do images?
[06:35] <Kamion> Micksa: I think part of the reason for the switch was to be able to integrate the wiki and the web site more closely
[06:38] <mdz> seb128: we can adjust the seeds after it's uploaded
[06:38] <mdz> Kamion: I was more curious about whether the new wiki actually provides the data in an easily accessible way, as the old one did
[06:38] <mdz> I don't remember it having a 'just dump the raw page for me' feature
[06:40] <Micksa> that could probably be added anyway
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> The proactive security post to the ubuntu-devel mailing list was apparently ignored.  What else should I do to try to bring attention to the topic?
[06:43] <thom> Kamion: d'you know if all our console-data changes went back upstream?
[06:49] <Kamion> thom: not certain; I think that's on my list to merge-review ...
[06:49] <thom> Kamion: ok, i'll assign the bug to you then :_)
[06:50] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: start providing patches? :-) It seems to me that it would be useful to run a derivative distribution with the patches you want applied; we'll be making it pretty easy to start up derivative distributions of Ubuntu over the next few months or so
[06:50] <Kamion> thom: oh, maybe it's not on my list, ok
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  I do not want a derivative distribution.
[06:51] <Kamion> I'm not saying it would stay that way forever
[06:52] <Kamion> it's a useful way to demonstrate the utility and viability of a large wide-ranging patchset to lots of packages, though
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  The changes are simple, and do not break binary compatibility.  They do not add excess administrative tasks, do not change the way the machine behaves for the user, and would quite probably be easy to maintain.
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> also
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> All of these things are in use right now on my machine; I'm running Gentoo Linux with a few bits from Hardened Gentoo, a subproject of Gentoo
[06:52] <Kamion> if they're so simple, perhaps simply filing bugs with patches is the right thing to do.
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> so such demonstration is already done
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> I'm not a developer though :(  but I know someone who's working on it and may be willing to help
[06:53] <mdz> bluefoxicy: we discussed this in the kickoff meeting
[06:53] <mdz> I thought it was fairly clear
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  Hmm?
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> kickoff meeting?
[06:53] <pitti> Hi mdt!
[06:53] <mdz> bluefoxicy: you were there, if I recall correctly
[06:53] <pitti> Hi mdz!
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> mdz:   The last discussion I remember was sending me here, which in turn sent me to the mailing list
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> I was sent here from #ubuntu-meeting
[06:54] <mdz> oh, I remember
[06:54] <mdz> you asked during the community council meeting
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> I don't think I paid much attention since then
[06:54] <pitti> mdz: elmo ambered apache, libxml2 should be ready to go
[06:54] <mdz> anyway, this was discussed during the Hoary kickoff meeting
[06:54] <thom> Kamion: it's, um, on your list now :-) it looks like most of the change was a backport, but there's some translation magic needed
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> ah
[06:54] <Kamion> thom: yarrrr, more fun
[06:54] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  i missed that one
[06:55] <mdz> bluefoxicy: mako is working on a summary, and will publish a transcript as well
[06:55] <mdz> I'll follow up to the mailing list when I have a chance
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  I'm also not familiar with the Debian/Ubuntu developer's tools, and not familiar with Lorenzo's work (I don't pay much attention even though he tells me whenever he releases something), so I wouldn't be able to make intelligent bugs :)
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  Ah, ok
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> I'll look for that
[06:56] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: it doesn't have to be you, but *somebody* has to take responsibility for it!
[06:56] <thom> Kamion: sadly, i don't even know what unfuzzying a translation is, let alone how one does it
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> and try and figure a more structured way to go about this; I still haven't woken up, and I don't even know where to start even to argue for this stuff. . . geeze I'm like a 5 year old :P
[06:56] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: the core team is already flat out, so we need help from the community if there are extra things that people in the community want
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> . . .what was I talking about?
[06:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: partman-basicfilesystems is a good example of where merging debian->warty *doesn't* work well
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  I'll be watching for the transcript where?
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> and the summary?
[07:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, what did it do?
[07:01] <mdz> bluefoxicy: probably -devel, or maybe -news, ask mako
[07:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: the warty patch was a one-liner that didn't touch .po files or anything; the debian patch was enormous
[07:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: it went around rewriting lots of .po files when it could have just ignored them, basically
[07:04] <srbaker> hey.  jython is in debian main, but it's not in warty main or universe.  is there a reason why?
[07:05] <mako> bluefoxicy: i'm posting things too all three at the moment but i'm going to start posting things to only news pretty soon
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> mako:  uh huh
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> mako:  And at the moment, there's a giant coffee cake downstairs
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> you know what that means.
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> I really have to not get on IRC when I've been awake for ~1 minute
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> it's right by my bed
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> it's like "uh?  where the hell am I?  *gets on IRC* Hey where the hell am. . .oh wait, I was dreaming that's right . . ."
[07:15] <mdz> thom: how does firefox look?
[07:16] <SuperL4g> bluefoxicy: do you also use Gentoo?
[07:16] <srbaker> is rthere a place where i can download the blueish ubuntu background taht was used in the warty prerelease?
[07:16] <SuperL4g> your name looks familiar
[07:16] <srbaker> i'm not liking the shit brown.
[07:17] <SuperL4g> srbaker: tell us how you _really_ feel :)
[07:17] <srbaker> SuperL4g, sorry, i'm not good with subtlety
[07:17] <srbaker> :P
[07:18] <SuperL4g> No worries.  Nor am I.  I just think it's funny.
[07:19] <srbaker> actually, i was being nice.  i usually call it diarrhea brown
[07:21] <srbaker> ahh
[07:21] <srbaker> looks like jython has incomplete build-deps
[07:25] <bluefoxicy> SuperL4g:  yes
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> SuperL4g: despite the flack it takes, Gentoo is an excellent developer's platform by nature, and various subprojects (including hardened) have benefited greatly from the ability to easily modify the system at will (easy does not mean it takes less than 2 days to rebuild, though)
[07:37] <lamont> hrm.. patches back to debian... guess we're not using no-name-yet.com anymore, eh?
[07:38] <mdz> lamont: people.ubuntu*
[07:39] <lamont> yeah
[07:53] <lamont> thom?
[07:53] <lamont> nm
[07:54] <lamont> Keybuk: you re-run your scripts?
[07:55] <Kamion> elmo: please revert console-data to the Debian version
[07:55] <elmo> Kamion: done
[07:55] <elmo> thom: done btw
[07:55] <elmo> (exim4 ages ago, I think I forgot the ack)
[07:55] <Keybuk> lamont: no?
[07:56] <lamont> hrm... just wondering why libdc1394 disappeared.
[07:56] <lamont> mind you, I'm done with it.
[07:56] <Keybuk> did you look in merge/done ? :)
[07:57] <lamont> ah, should i be moving things there?
[07:57] <Keybuk> heh, you'd need +w for that
[07:59] <Kamion> I do believe that that's everything synced/merged that's in the d-i initrds
[08:04] <lamont> how often does our bugzilla sync debian bugs?
[08:17] <lamont> where do I put MAINTAINER_MODE again?
[08:19] <Keybuk> AM_MAINTAINER_MODE in configure.{in,ac}
[08:19] <Keybuk> somewhere near the top
[08:19] <lamont> ok
[08:23] <Kamion> lamont: discover1/discover1-data build failures are both fixed now I think, if you're caring about hoary build failures at the moment
[08:23] <lamont> Kamion: kinda half caring...
[08:23] <lamont> I do look at them, but things are so flux-ful right now, that I haven't bothered to file any bugs about them.
[08:27] <lamont> Kamion: miscfiles - you added a Depends: fileutils (..) | ...
[08:27] <lamont> we still need that for hoary?
[08:29] <Kamion> can I answer that later? :-) need to go out soon
[08:30] <Keybuk> descent src% ./grepmap --usbmap 0x045e 0x001e 0x0121 0 0 0 3 1 2
[08:30] <Keybuk> usbmouse
[08:30] <Keybuk> usbhid
[08:30] <Keybuk> \o/
[08:30] <Keybuk> this is kinda fun <g>
[08:44] <kylem> yargh, is there a divx package for ubuntu's totem, or whatnot.
[08:48] <nasdaq4088> who here can download 3mb / sec ?
[09:12] <lamont> Kamion: np
[09:41] <stratus> Is there a brazilian mirror? I need to download the live cd asap to show for a manager but the UK, Spain and other mirrors are really slow to me here.
[09:43] <mdz> stratus: lists of mirrors can be found on the website and in the wiki
[09:45] <stratus> mdz, i see that a brazilian mirror isn't listed there but anyone here can have one but it isn't published. thanks.
[09:46] <pitti> mdz: have you got some minutes for libxml2? my gf will drag me out of the house in 10 minutes...
[09:46] <mdz> pitti: yes
[09:47] <pitti> mdz: sorry to bother you...
[09:47] <pitti> mdz: but I'd like to get this out of the door; I'm at a Debian booth all the day tomorrow and are n/a
[09:48] <mdz> elmo: debdiff on jackass, please?
[09:48] <mdz> pitti: which advisory number?
[09:49] <pitti> mdz: 10-1
[09:49] <mdz> pitti: done
[09:50] <pitti> mdz: got the template
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: sent
[09:53] <mdz> approved
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: do you know of any changes of my web site login? I could add the advisory, but I cannot publish it
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: the only option is to "mark obsolete"
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: odd, now it works (the second time)
[09:57] <pitti> mdz: however; thank you!
[09:58] <pitti> night, everybody!
[10:11] <cenerentola> hello...
[10:21] <Kyaneos> hi
[10:37] <amu> mdz: people reporting bug/requests thought my forum page, i forward it to bugzilla ?    
[10:37] <mdz> amu: sure
[10:37] <mdz> amu: wait
[10:37] <mdz> amu: live CD bugs?
[10:37] <mdz> or general bugs?
[10:37] <amu> yap
[10:37] <amu> liveCD 
[10:37] <mdz> yes, fine
[10:38] <amu> also such things like ITP's 
[10:38] <amu> ;) 
[11:10] <amu> ok, all kind of questions related to the liveCD ....
[11:20] <Mithrandir> amu: if you can come up with a test image with the patch I mentioned in the "live cd and usb cdrom doesn't work" bug, a friend of mine is most interested in testing. :)
[11:24] <amu> Mithrandir: sounds good, looks like we have some policy problems, at the buildsys.  
[11:25] <amu> lamont: for faster process, please could you run a sync of the knoopix packages and a place inoffical-Mithrandir.iso to your testing tree ? 
[11:27] <Mithrandir> amu: ugh, ok. what kind of policy problems?  The hotplug-runs-in-wrong-root problem?
[11:42] <lamont> Mithrandir: other than the fact that the entire build process has to run as root in the real root, not much. :-)
[11:43] <lamont> Mithrandir: and fixing that is a blocker for any liveCD build on a buildd now that warty is out the door, and we have repented of our sins.
[11:44] <Mithrandir> yeah, I'm talking to amu now with ideas how to fix it.