[01:40] <mdz> cdrecord makes baby jesus cry
[01:42] <tseng> indeed.
[01:43] <daniels> mdz: yes
[01:43] <srbaker> anyone know a good way to tell what format a video is in?  i can't get it to play under anything i can find for ubuntu *or* windows media
[01:43] <mdz> srbaker: please use #ubuntu for support
[01:43] <daniels> mdz: joerg doubly so
[01:43] <srbaker> whoops
[01:44] <daniels> http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html
[01:44] <daniels> that was the logo that won the logo contest.
[01:45] <chrisa> If that won I don't want to know what lost
[02:07] <mdz> jdub: did you realize that OpenBSD is on the same release schedule as Ubuntu and GNOME?
[02:07] <mdz> jdub: stockholm just pointed this out
[02:08] <jdub> seriously? april/october?
[02:09] <jdub> "The current release is OpenBSD 3.6 which was released Oct 29, 2004."
[02:09] <jdub> hrm, wonder where their release planning pages are
[02:11] <jdub> 5.1 - OpenBSD's Flavors
[02:11] <jdub> There are three "flavors" of OpenBSD:
[02:11] <jdub>     * -release: The version of OpenBSD shipped every six months on CD.
[02:11] <tseng> i ran into theo the other day
[02:11] <jdub> The OpenBSD team makes a new release every six months, with target release dates of May 1 and November 1. More information on the development cycle can be found here.
[02:11] <jdub> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Flavors
[02:12] <jdub> hrm, always annoying when real content is stuck in a FAQ
[02:12] <tseng> he is hitting up everyone about getting the wifi fimrwares opened
[02:12] <jdub> and giving linus stick about it, too
[02:13] <tseng> good cause
[02:13] <tseng> annoying methods
[02:13] <tseng> some bsd'ers dont realize that freedom isnt everyones bag of tea
[02:13] <tseng> not that there arent linux/gpl zealots
[02:15] <mdz> jdub: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Next
[02:15] <mdz> ah, you found it already
[02:16] <tseng> sigh @ "breakmyubuntu"
[02:16] <tseng> id rather not have my work labeled as such
[02:17] <tseng> daniels: dont forget libdbus-cil :P
[02:18] <daniels> tseng: haven't forgotten dbus; after I've taken care of the merge, I'll be preparing packages of CVS D-BUS with Mono support
[02:19] <tseng> daniels = the man.
[02:21] <jdub> brazilian-conjugate - Brazilian Portuguese verb conjugator
[02:21] <jdub> ^ heh
[03:11] <lamont> moo
[03:40] <jdub> hrm
[03:40] <jdub> so
[03:41] <jdub> attempting to do XDMCP query to 192.168.10.10
[03:41] <jdub> gdm wants to connect back to the Xnest on 192.168.10.100
[03:41] <jdub> however
[03:41] <jdub> well, it should want to
[03:41] <jdub> however,
[03:41] <jdub> it's attempting to connect to 192.168.10.3
[03:41] <jdub> which is the access point
[03:42] <jdub> rather bizarre
[03:43] <jdub> works fine if i don't go through the AP
[04:11] <lamont> jdub: maybe it's a "smart" AP?
[04:13] <pasc> judging from the last time I tried to get a wireless connection at jdub's place, it's probably the neighbours' AP ;-)
[04:21] <lamont> assuming it builds, etc
[04:22] <lamont> jdub: is there a reliable way to distinguish a hoary machine from a debian machine?
[04:43] <lamont> mdz: please sync debian bug #269366 to hoary
[04:54] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:40] <fabbione> lamont: i have sid here, if you want, i can upload for you'
[05:40] <lamont> doen
[05:40] <lamont> just needed a couple files from krb5
[05:40] <fabbione> ehhe
[05:41] <lamont> (that's a full set of packages files, without the .debs to back them up...)
[05:41] <lamont> but means that just wget'ing the.deb fixes things up quite nicely. :-)
[05:41] <fabbione> eheh
[05:41] <lamont> the actual mirror (dists/sid) contains a leaner, meaner, Packages.gz
[05:42] <fabbione> because you do partial mirroring?
[05:42] <fabbione>  /dev/vgdata/debianorg 40G   34G  4.2G  89% /mirrors/debian.org
[05:43] <fabbione> i still have some space to play with
[05:43] <fabbione> but i think i will kill my debian mirror pretty soon
[05:51] <lamont> 2552748 /org/debian/tree
[05:51] <lamont> 7655432 /org/ubuntu/tree
[05:51] <lamont> not much of a debian tree, I'll admit
[05:51] <lamont> esp since it has sid:i386,ia64,hppa,alpha, sarge: i386,ia64,hppa, and woody: i386, with source for all.
[05:52] <Gmail> something the devel shound know:
[05:52] <Gmail>  B = Before
[05:52] <Gmail> E = Engineers
[05:52] <Gmail> T = Take
[05:52] <Gmail> A = Action
[05:52] <fabbione> lamont: i only have i386 and sources for woody/sarge/i386
[05:52] <fabbione> ehm... sid
[05:53] <lamont> fabbione: most of my mirror is either packages for machiens that don't have ubuntu support, or packages [and their (build-)depends]  that I maintain.
[05:54] <fabbione> yes..
[05:54] <lamont> hrm.. interesting drive-by defining.
[05:54] <fabbione> i need a full mirror for the ipv6 stats
[05:54] <fabbione> all the sources and binaries are parsed regularly every day
[05:54] <lamont> oh - hey... wanna see if I broke ipv6 with 2.1.5-1ubuntu1?
[05:54] <fabbione> at least the interdiff between day1 and dayx
[05:55] <lamont> I don't _think_ I did...
[05:55] <fabbione> lamont: i am not running ubuntu on my mail server (yet)
[05:55] <lamont> s/ubuntu1//
[05:55] <lamont> but that'll be in the archive tomorrow
[05:55] <fabbione> if it is for debian sure
[05:55] <fabbione> pass it here
[05:55] <fabbione> is it in incoming?
[05:55] <lamont> yeah
[05:55] <fabbione> ok
[05:56] <lamont> I do need to go get the current ipv6 patch and merge it in,
[05:56] <fabbione> jeee
[05:56] <fabbione> i need to buy a dvd burner ASAP
[05:58] <fabbione> problem is that i can't delete anything
[05:58] <fabbione> not that i don't know how to use rm
[05:58] <fabbione> but it's just me that can't
[05:58] <fabbione> so i keep filling up tons of harddisks for crap
[05:59] <lamont> fabbione: disks are cheap
[06:00] <fabbione> i don't have any more space for harddisks in the file server
[06:00] <fabbione> Alloc PE / Size       157367 / 614.71 GB
[06:00] <fabbione> there are already 8 disks in there
[06:00] <fabbione> Alloc PE / Size       2493 / 9.74 GB
[06:00] <fabbione> and the system vg
[06:01] <fabbione> the first one is just data
[06:02] <fabbione> btw.. why did you created a _multi.changes, uploading only i386?
[06:03] <fabbione> telnet ::1 25
[06:04] <fabbione> Connected to ::1.
[06:04] <fabbione> 220 trider-g7.fabbione.net ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)
[06:05] <lamont> fabbione: cool
[06:05] <fabbione> lamont: try to send me a mail please
[06:06] <fabbione> this morning seems to be low traffic
[06:07] <fabbione> ipv4 works fine
[06:07] <fabbione> i didn't receive any mail via ipv6 yet
[06:13] <fabbione> it seems to be ok
[06:14] <lamont> fabbione: if it's not, I'm sure I'll hear about it.. :-)
[06:14] <fabbione> ehehhe
[06:14] <lamont> anyway, off to bed.
[06:14] <fabbione> good night
[06:27] <hornbeck> has anyone seen sivang?
[07:06] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  i'm going to find out where you live one day
[07:31] <Micksa> is it just me or is plone/zwiki/zope slow?
[07:34] <lifeless> plone and zwiki are both zope2 -- dog slow
[07:35] <Micksa> are you implying zope3 isn't?
[07:36] <Micksa> trying to establish if zope is worth getting into :)
[07:37] <lifeless> zope3 is good crack
[07:57] <Micksa> so plone on zope3 will suck much less?
[08:09] <Micksa> zwiki on its own seems reasonably zippy
[08:10] <lifeless> zwiki might be zope3 in fact
[08:11] <lifeless> and yes, if plone is migrated to zope3, it would be faster
[08:12] <jdub> it would still be zwiki ;)
[08:13] <Micksa> deciding on a wiki is hard
[08:13] <Micksa> for a long-term project I mean
[08:14] <Micksa> I'm guessing you guys chose it for sound reasons :)
[08:38] <Micksa> I think half the reason it's slow is because of the wadload of Dynamic Content that's in there by default
[08:39] <jdub> mdz: ping
[09:06] <cenerentola> hello pplx
[09:17] <mdz> jdub: pong
[09:17] <mdz> lamont: what do you mean?
[09:18] <cenerentola> one thing 
[09:24] <lucas_> hi
[09:31] <lucas_> where can I find the sources for ubuntu's fork of debian-installer ?
[09:32] <jdub> lucas_: 'branch' :)
[09:32] <jdub> lucas_: it's all on the archive -> archive.ubuntu.com
[09:34] <lucas_> mmh, so this is outdated : http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianInstallerBuild ?
[09:35] <jdub> lucas_: i don't know, but that's nothing to do with ubuntu
[09:36] <lucas_> is there a "how to build debian-installer to put it on a custom Ubuntu CD" howto ? :)
[09:36] <jdub> no
[09:38] <lucas_> well, where could I find relevant info ?
[09:38] <cenerentola> jdub: after installing another warty on the laptop... the first warty's grub-entry disappeared... note that the second one has its own boot partition: what should i do?
[09:39] <jdub> cenerentola: best to ask these kinds of questions in #ubuntu
[09:41] <cenerentola> yes but no-one excetp iz seems to be good at this kind of things
[09:42] <jdub> cenerentola: many of the developers are in #ubuntu
[09:42] <jdub> that's where you should ask user questions
[10:47] <lifeless> someone want to tak bug #3075 ?
[10:52] <Gmail> hey anyone want to add the coolest!!! WYIWYG html editor to ubuntu hoary by making a binary its called nvu from nvu.com another sponsored by linspire project
[10:59] <tuo2> gah.
[11:10] <Gmail> ??
[11:23] <Gmail> ??
[11:48] <Gmail> ??
[11:48] <Gmail> ??
[11:48] <Gmail> ??
[11:50] <sivang> Gmail : what seems to be the problem ?
 hey anyone want to add the coolest!!! WYIWYG html editor to ubuntu hoary by making a binary its called nvu from nvu.com another sponsored by linspire project
[11:50] <Gmail> 1hr ago
[11:52] <sivang> Gmail : you can try and create a package if you like :)
[12:01] <Gmail> sivang: i am
[12:02] <jdub> lifeless: it's being rewritten upstream
[12:03] <lifeless> jdub: its the category it was filed against I was more amused by.
[12:03] <lifeless> someone filed it against bazaar.
[12:03] <jdub> yeah
[12:03] <jdub> weird
[12:03] <jdub> just saw that
[12:04] <jdub> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3075
[12:04] <jdub> fixed
[12:19] <lifeless> thanks!
[12:29] <vinsci> the teams page doesn't mention a web team - is there one?
[12:52] <Keybuk> morning Tollef
[12:56] <lifeless> Keybuk: 'baz switch' implemented.
[12:57] <uma> moind
[01:00] <Mithrandir> hi Keybuk
[01:02] <trulux> hey
[01:02] <trulux> hey Keybuk 
[02:07] <Gmail> I FUND THE BEST SOFTWARE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[02:07] <Gmail> http://www.molesoftware.com/www/index.php
[02:07] <Gmail> it should be in ubuntu if ubuntu is going to be a server distro
[02:07] <Gmail> it the coolest and OSS
[03:28] <cenerentola> NO MORE STUPID QUESTION IM A NEW PERSO
[03:29] <cenerentola> N
[03:30] <bob2> erm, ok
[03:31] <cenerentola> bob2: how r u doing?
[03:33] <bob2> i am good thx
[03:36] <zul> ah...okie dokie
[04:03] <sivang> Anybody can shoot at me the directory under which the trash files reside?
[04:04] <sivang> I have reason to believe that some files were not deleted from my system, although the trash:// applet seems empty
[04:14] <plovs>  ~/.Trash/ ?
[04:17] <plovs> anybody able to login to the wiki? seems authentication stopped working
[04:26] <hornbeck> I cannot get in either
[04:31] <Mithrandir> mdz: what's the procedure for bugs like 3032 which is now fixed in sid -- request sync or just close the bug?
[04:31] <Keybuk> that one needs merging
[04:31] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/merge/review/qt-x11-free/
[04:34] <Mithrandir> ok, and for for, who still isn't up-to-date wrt mail, that means I should do what?  Review the patches and upload manually or request sync?
[04:40] <elmo> if there are outstanding ubuntu changes, merge them and upload - if there's none and the package should be reverted to sid, mail/irc me
[04:40] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/merge/README  explains what the .dropped and .patch files mean
[04:41] <Keybuk> basically stuff in .dropped is Debian changes that couldn't be merged
[04:41] <Mithrandir> ok, and we don't care about changelogs and such?
[04:41] <Keybuk> yeah, try to fix the changelog -- otherwise next time we merge it's even harder
[04:41] <Mithrandir> (so if the changes in code has been merged, no point in dragging the historical changelog patch along)
[04:41] <Keybuk> no, really please put the changelog back together
[04:42] <Keybuk> <debian pre-warty changes> <warty changes> <debian post-warty changes> <hoary changes>
[04:42] <Keybuk> is the order we've used
[04:42] <Mithrandir> ok
[04:42] <Keybuk> other than that, it just looks like you need to fix debian/patches/00list
[04:42] <Keybuk> and change that _warty.patch and _hoary.patch are roughly equivalent
[04:42] <Mithrandir> ok, but I'm trying to understand the general concept here. :)
[04:42] <lamont> mdz: ECONTEXT
[04:43] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: we changed qt-x11-free ... we need to catch up with Debian and keep our changes
[04:43] <Keybuk> basically
[04:43] <Keybuk> the automagic merge script couldn't quite do that one by itself
[04:43] <Mithrandir> ok
[04:48] <T-Bone> lamont: got a few more "weird hangs" today in stage2.2 -> courrier
[06:37] <Keybuk> how did I just get a "NEW" for a package LaMont filed a FTBFS on me for?
[06:37] <Keybuk> automake1.9_1.9.2-1ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
[06:38] <Keybuk> vs. #3021
[06:57] <fabbione> mdz: can we import http://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1744 ?
[06:57] <fabbione> this is a possible show stopper to package X.org at the moment
[06:58] <fabbione> it could break the hell out of ubuntu
[06:58] <fabbione> (given that i am correct)
[07:08] <mdz> lamont: <lamont> mdz: please sync debian bug #269366 to hoary
[07:09] <mdz> fabbione: we have no means to import Bugzilla bugs at the moment
[07:09] <mdz> you can file a bug with a hyperlink
[08:44] <Keybuk> grepmap.c:136: warning: string length `679' is greater than the length `509' ISO C89 compilers are required to support
[08:44] <Keybuk> boo
[08:44] <Keybuk> hiss
[08:57] <plovs> any www.ubuntulinux.org admins awake? wiki dows not allow logging in
[08:57] <sivang> plovs : yes it doesn't :(
[08:58] <plovs> sivang, btw thanks for the sambahowto windows domain stuff (in advance)
[08:59] <sivang> plovs : no problem, I have a freind who is running an NYC IT Based consulting company, I will be using him for that :)
[09:00] <plovs> sivang :)
[09:01] <elmo> please try the wiki now?
[09:06] <hornbeck> I just set up samba off that tutorial
[09:06] <hornbeck> nice stuff worked right away
[09:06] <sivang> hornbeck : samba is a way cool project :)
[09:06] <hornbeck> yee, the wiki is back
[09:06] <hornbeck> sivang: yes it is
[09:06] <plovs> ok!
[09:07] <hornbeck> back to work
[09:07] <sivang> wiki is back? Yeeeha!
[09:09] <hornbeck> anyone want to host the inotify kernel for me?
[09:09] <hornbeck> It has killed my blog
[09:10] <hornbeck> people are downloading the crap out of it
[09:11] <hornbeck> plovs: great bootup howto
[09:11] <plovs> :)
[09:12] <plovs> hornbeck, ask tseng he has lots of mono stuff anyway
[09:12] <hornbeck> ok, I have to find something
[09:12] <hornbeck> as of right now it is down, for at least two days, and so is my blog
[09:17] <plovs> hornbeck, how big is it?
[09:17] <hornbeck> hmmm, don't know
[09:17] <hornbeck> the size of the regular kernel
[09:17] <plovs> hornbeck, too big to put it in the wiki then :(
[09:17] <hornbeck> it is the same as the normal i386 kernel cept with inotify built in
[09:17] <hornbeck> yes, to big
[09:18] <plovs> ask for a folder on canonical
[09:18] <plovs> like tseng and piti
[09:18] <hornbeck> who would I ask?
[09:18] <plovs> asdfl or mdz
[09:18] <hornbeck> ok
[09:18] <plovs> i suppose
[09:18] <plovs> or ask louise on our list
[09:20] <lamont> Keybuk: Either I grabbed source for debian, or the binaries weren't known to our katie. don't remember which
[09:20] <lamont> cd debian/autodiff-new && aclocal
[09:20] <lamont> /bin/bash: line 1: aclocal: command not found
[09:21] <Keybuk> missing build-depend ?
[09:21] <lamont> prolly
[09:25] <hornbeck> plovs: is there a way to get around the empty sections in ReST
[09:25] <sivang> hornbeck : you created a package for the inotify built kernel?
[09:25] <hornbeck> yeah
[09:25] <plovs> hornbeck, make them unempty
[09:25] <hornbeck> it is available on the beagle page
[09:26] <hornbeck> plovs: I want two headers. One right after the other
[09:26] <plovs> use different markup, just a sec...
[09:27] <plovs> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#sections
[09:27] <hornbeck> I fixed it
[09:28] <hornbeck> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuChapterTwo
[09:28] <hornbeck> look at that, is that a good starting point
[09:28] <hornbeck> it is from the website
[09:30] <hornbeck> plovs: where are you storing the pictures for the wiki
[09:33] <plovs> just in the root
[09:34] <lamont> Keybuk: linda is also pissed on i386.
[09:34] <lamont> but only i386, which kinda points at arch:all stuff
[09:34] <plovs> hornbeck, add new content
[09:34] <hornbeck> ahhh
[09:34] <hornbeck> ok
[09:35] <Keybuk> lamont: *sigh* Debian and their allergy to correct build-depends
[09:36] <lamont> Keybuk: I think it's more clue factor
[09:37] <lamont> actually, I think linda may be arch all.
[09:38] <mdz> linda is arch all
[09:38] <mdz> (python)
[09:38] <hornbeck> mdz: is there a way for me to get a folder to host files for ubuntu?
[09:39] <mdz> hornbeck: large files or small files?
[09:39] <hornbeck> about 30 megs or so
[09:39] <hornbeck> a kernel image
[09:40] <hornbeck> my host is dead because the kernel image has become popular
[09:44] <Kosai> mjg59: No luck so far?
[09:50] <hornbeck> mdz: the kernel image is 14M
[09:50] <mdz> hornbeck: if it's just a one-time thing, I can put it up for you in my home directory
[09:51] <hornbeck> mdz: I am not sure if I will need to make other files soon
[09:51] <hornbeck> I will find something
[09:52] <hornbeck> I am looking at building beagle packages
[09:53] <mdz> hornbeck: is this for inotify?
[09:53] <hornbeck> mdz: yes
[09:53] <hornbeck> I have a link to the kernel on the beagle howto page and the kernel is getting downloaded a ton
[09:54] <mdz> hornbeck: give me a URL and I can put it up someplace for you
[09:54] <hornbeck> I only have it local now
[09:54] <hornbeck> my host shut me off
[09:55] <hornbeck> bastards took my blog down to
[10:01] <mjg59> Kosai: Haha. No.
[10:01] <Kosai> Aww.
[10:03] <plovs> hornbeck, i try to save my pics as Pic... so it easier to find them later
[10:03] <hornbeck> plovs: ok
[10:04] <Keybuk> I swear, Lintian is on some serious crack today
[10:04] <Keybuk> wartylog: grepmap source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
[10:04] <Keybuk> wartylog: grepmap source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.1.0-1
[10:05] <Mithrandir> Changelog maintainer != control file maintainer?
[10:05] <Keybuk> nope, identical *shrug*
[10:05] <Mithrandir> then it's on crack.
[10:05] <Keybuk> ahh
[10:05] <Keybuk> stray space on the end of the line in control
[10:06] <Mithrandir> sounds like a bug -- whitespace is not important in rfc822 addresses
[10:08] <Keybuk> right, dinner time
[10:39] <mjg59> Gah. Fuck. Right, that makes no difference.
[10:39] <mjg59> It must be something fundamentally wrong in the ACPI implementation, but I have no idea what.
[10:39] <nictuku> hi
[10:40] <nictuku> I dont understand. was #1608 fixed in Warty final?
[10:42] <nictuku> I had problems with that.
[10:43] <mdz> nictuku: it was fixed, and then unfortunately un-fixed
[10:43] <mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2773
[10:43] <nictuku> :)
[10:57] <mdz> hornbeck: the patch will go into hoary in the near future anyway
[11:01] <Kyaneos> hi
[11:03] <hornbeck> mdz: that is hoary though
[11:03] <hornbeck> for people to use beagle now they need inotify
[11:04] <enrico> Hello.  There's some interest in the doc group to try out some arch.  I still haven't clear how repositories work in arch, but would it be possible to have an arch playground we could use to practice a bit with it before we start doing community editing of big documents?
[11:05] <hornbeck> arch would be good for the Learning Ubuntu book
[11:05] <hornbeck> for the docbook part of it
[11:06] <mdz> hornbeck: I don't follow
[11:06] <mdz> hornbeck: what is hoary?
[11:07] <hornbeck> mdz: you said that inotify was going into Hoary
[11:07] <hornbeck> mdz: I was saying yes, but it was going in Hoary and not Warty
[11:07] <hornbeck> mdz: I had that package so people could use beagle now with Warty
[11:08] <mdz> hornbeck: your package is not going into warty, either
[11:09] <hornbeck> mdz: I know, but I was hosting so people could use it
[11:09] <hornbeck> hmm, I think something is missing here
[11:09] <mdz> hornbeck: they could also use the hoary package, which we host
[11:09] <hornbeck> mdz: ok
[11:10] <hornbeck> mdz: I was just responding to your comment to me above :-)
[11:10] <mdz> for now, at least. at some point in the future, the hoary kernel may no longer be installable on warty
[11:10] <enrico> Ok.  No answer about my arch question.  Could someone please tell me where to ask instead?
[11:10] <hornbeck> mdz: I was just trying to help people with using beagle
[11:10] <mdz> enrico: the beauty of arch is that it's decentralized.  anyone who wants to try it out can set it up on their own
[11:11] <enrico> mdz: yes, but how does it work when you want to put the results together?
[11:11] <hornbeck> mdz: I get a ton of email everyday about the beagle howto and I know they all used the kernel I was hosting
[11:11] <mdz> enrico: it works
[11:11] <enrico> mdz: how?
[11:11] <hornbeck> mdz: I was just looking for a new place to host it and I was told to as you
[11:11] <mdz> enrico: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-arch/tutorial/arch.html
[11:11] <mdz> enrico: http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-arch-users/2003-09/msg00034.html
[11:11] <enrico> mdz: I mean, do you need a central repository somewhere, or you do some peer-to-peer swap of patches, or 
[11:12] <mdz> enrico: those are two good starting points fo rarch
[11:12] <mdz> for arch
[11:12] <enrico> mdz: ok.  Besides tutorials, you mean that if we want to have a playground somewhere we have to set it up in some machine of ours?
[11:12] <mdz> enrico: an arch archive is just a directory tree, there is nothing to set up
[11:13] <mdz> you just make it available via http
[11:13] <enrico> And how do you write in it? DaV?
[11:13] <mdz> that is one option, yes
[11:13] <hornbeck> mdz: I think he was wanting something within the ubuntu servers
[11:13] <mdz> enrico: to answer your question, #arch is the place to ask general questions about arch
[11:14] <mdz> hornbeck: I know, and I am explaining that it is not necessary.  this is a fundamental difference between arch and (e.g.) CVS which is not obvious at first
[11:14] <hornbeck> mdz: ok
[11:15] <enrico> mdz: so, we don't need any central place to do group work on something 
[11:15] <enrico> mdz: it's supposed to just work
[11:15] <hornbeck> enrico: I am looking at hosting right now
[11:15] <hornbeck> enrico: if need be I will set up a host for it all
[11:16] <enrico> hornbeck: you mean, a private hosting for yourself?
[11:16] <hornbeck> enrico: yes, but i could set up the central place for the doc team
[11:16] <hornbeck> if it is needed
[11:16] <enrico> According to the mail mdz just posted a link to, people pull changes from each other's trees
[11:17] <enrico> Which would mean that people should have a tree available via http
[11:17] <mdz> right
[11:17] <mdz> you could decide that one of them is the "official" mainline
[11:17] <hornbeck> I guess I will have to read on that
[11:17] <hornbeck> mdz: would you not have to still have a web hosting than?
[11:17] <mdz> and collect patches from everyone into that
[11:17] <enrico> mdz: if people don't have a permanent http connection, I imagine people can have an official tree somewhere
[11:17] <hornbeck> so others could get to it
[11:18] <mdz> hornbeck: you need some means to transport the patches to others, yes
[11:18] <hornbeck> ok
[11:18] <mdz> if you expect to share them
[11:18] <enrico> mdz: I mean, having a public web server could be quite a high requirement on people
[11:18] <hornbeck> right
[11:18] <hornbeck> enrico: I will host a central place for patches once i find hosting
[11:19] <hornbeck> this crap is expensive :-)
[11:19] <mdz> enrico: you have a long way to go with arch before you get to that point, and you could very well decide that it does not meet your needs
[11:19] <mdz> enrico: the first step is to start using arch on your own, and then later, if it becomes a part of the way that you work, we can decide on a hosting arrangement if needed
[11:20] <enrico> mdz: I see.
[11:20] <hornbeck> mdz: what we are needing is a place for people to place files and be able to all work on them
[11:20] <hornbeck> mdz: I guess like cvs
[11:20] <moyogo> is there a way to switch locale without login out?
[11:20] <moyogo> globally i mean
[11:20] <hornbeck> there are a couple bigger files we have been emailing back and forth
[11:21] <mdz> arch is very much overkill as a file sharing mechanism, even more so that CVS is
[11:21] <mdz> moyogo: #ubuntu is the place for support
[11:21] <moyogo> mdz: sorry, and thanks ;)
[11:21] <hornbeck> mdz: we have directories of stuff to be worked through
[11:21] <hornbeck> such as the gnome2-user-manual
[11:21] <hornbeck> also the "Learning Ubuntu Linux" book that is being worked on
[11:21] <enrico> mdz: well, I'll try and create an arch tree with some document, then I'll try and put the tree in some HTTP server for people to add something to it
[11:22] <enrico> mdz: does it sound like a good approach for trying out some cooperative document writing?
[11:22] <enrico> mdz: (where "add something" means pull the tree and add something locally)
[11:22] <mdz> enrico: my honest opinion is that arch will not be suitable for you at this time
[11:23] <enrico> mdz: you mean, we should stick to the wiki?
[11:24] <mdz> enrico: where possible, yes  but obviously that won't work for things like the gnome2-user-manual
[11:24] <enrico> mdz: so, what do you suggest for that instead of arch?
[11:24] <hornbeck> mdz: we are going to start working on alot of bigger offline docs
[11:26] <mdz> enrico: I don't know of anything which would be a very good solution
[11:26] <hornbeck> cvs?
[11:26] <mdz> when working on documentation, it is important for the barrier to entry to be low
[11:26] <hornbeck> that is what gnome uses for those same docs
[11:26] <mdz> are you going to require everyone who might work on documentation to learn CVS?
[11:26] <enrico> mdz: subversion, then
[11:27] <Clint> ugh
[11:27] <enrico> mdz: we're talking about big documents, which can have a sligtly higher barrier.  Subversion is currently the VCS with the lowest barrier
[11:27] <mdz> enrico: do you find subversion easier for non-technical users to learn than CVS?
[11:27] <enrico> mdz: yes, so far
[11:28] <Clint> How peculiar.
[11:28] <mdz> I find it rather more complex
[11:28] <mdz> but I haven't tried rapidsvn
[11:28] <enrico> mdz: did you have different experiences?
[11:28] <hornbeck> cvs is not that hard
[11:29] <mdz> it seems that what you want is like a whiteboard
[11:29] <hornbeck> a small tutorial for how to make .diff's than send them to the -doc mailing list would not be hard for someone to learn
[11:29] <mdz> where CVS is a filing cabinet
[11:29] <mdz> subversion is a database
[11:29] <enrico> Thing is, we were talking about doing group writing, and for big documents we put off both wiki and all version control systems.  Either someone has other suggestions, or I'm fine with the discussion
[11:29] <mdz> and arch is a global satellite telecommunications network
[11:30] <Clint> Other than lack of documentation, I don't see why Arch is more difficult to learn than CVS/Subversion
[11:30] <Clint> especially for everyday tasks
[11:31] <Clint> at least with tla
[11:31] <mdz> arch brings experienced developers, familiar with revision control, to tears
[11:31] <Clint> not for simple things like 'update', 'commit', 'add', 'rm'
[11:31] <enrico> Ok, thanks for the help, we'll manage by ourselves.
[11:31] <Clint> and there's all kinds of wrapper programs and guis to simplify stuff for people
[11:32] <mdz> even for simple things
[11:33] <mdz> enrico: why not try something and see if it works?  I do not have a perfect solution prepared for you
[11:34] <nictuku> what kind of "bugs" are supposed to go into the errata site section?
[11:34] <Clint> mdz: if I give you instructions on how to check out the "HEAD" of a repo, make some changes, and generate a diff to send upstream, it's going to be basically the same few lines adjusted for the syntax of the three revision control systems being discussed
[11:35] <mdz> nictuku: TBD
[11:35] <enrico> mdz: I wasn't looking for the perfect solution.  However, I didn't really like the mood of a "there isn't anything out there for you".  But maybe today I'm not in a good mood.
[11:37] <Clint> enrico: try Arch and see what problems you have with it
[11:43] <Clint> hush, that's what tab-completion's for
[11:56] <lamont> Clint: shame shell tab comletion and arch don't agree on what to do with some of the special characters..
[11:56] <nictuku> what is the Right Way to go and translate installer dialogs? Go translate upstream and wait ubuntu to get that fresh code, or what? I'd like to create a wiki page about this subject.
[11:57] <Clint> lamont: what problems do you have?
[11:57] <nictuku> closest information about that I found was http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2004-October/000014.html
[11:59] <lamont> Clint: use bash, and tab-complete an archive name
[11:59] <lamont> @ really causes, um, issues