[04:53] <mdz> Keybuk: I received an SMS from a number that I don't recognize saying that they won't be able to make the tech board meeting due to being on a plane
[04:55] <Keybuk> what's the country code?
[04:59] <mdz> Keybuk: so shall we do this, or punt to the next meeting?
[05:00] <mdz> this isn't necessarily tech board stuff, I suppose, but we do need to talk about it
[05:00] <Keybuk> we can have a chat about it, sure
[05:00] <Keybuk> only the one thing on the agenda?
[05:00] <mdz> yep
[05:01] <Keybuk> suppose we better grab a couple of people
[05:02] <Keybuk> I can sense this is going to be of record length
[05:03] <daniels> Keybuk: er, no, hoary kickoff meeting
[05:03] <mdz> elmo: the only thing we need to discuss is how to manage the ongoing merges of new packages from Debian
[05:03] <Keybuk> daniels: what was last week, dude
[05:03] <thom> daniels: the other direction
[05:04] <elmo> mdz: ?
[05:04] <mdz> elmo: Debian, big place with lots of packages
[05:04] <elmo> mdz: ?
[05:05] <mdz> elmo: ...
[05:05] <thom> *giggle*
[05:05] <mdz> Keybuk: so anyway, what kind of shape are the tools in for use on an ongoing basis?
[05:05] <daniels> elmo: 
[05:05] <Keybuk> ok
[05:05] <Keybuk> well, as I understand things
[05:05] <Keybuk> packages we haven't modified, elmo's magic will pull from Debian
[05:05] <mdz> Keybuk: is it feasible to automate at least the generation of the best-effort merges, and file bugs for their review?
[05:06] <Keybuk> yeah, I think so
[05:06] <Keybuk> if he can flag that a package we've modified has a new Debian version, my stuff can pull previous and current Debian, try to apply the diff to warty, and do it's dropped stuff
[05:06] <Keybuk> automating a bug filing ... I have no idea about ... I imagine it's doable though
[05:07] <mdz> Keybuk: there's a module in debzilla for filing bugs in bugzilla; it's dead easy
[05:07] <Keybuk> should we flag them all, or just the ones which the debian patch doesn't apply to?
[05:08] <mdz> based on the last round, i think at least an eyeball review is called for
[05:08] <mdz> and a test build
[05:08] <Keybuk> yeah, I tend to agree
[05:08] <Keybuk> there were a few where patch did odd things
[05:08] <mdz> though, these are much smaller
[05:08] <elmo> Keybuk: how do you want me to flag that to you?
[05:08] <mdz> the ones where it did truly odd things seemed to cause build failures anyway, so they'd be caught
[05:09] <mdz> having elmo's stuff send notifications sounds hairy; maybe Keybuk's stuff should just pull a Sources file from Debian on its own
[05:09] <Keybuk> the main issue is that I'm running on rookery
[05:09] <elmo> mdz: I can ultra-trivially dump the lorraine output to a text file which keybuk can wget?
[05:09] <elmo> Keybuk: why's that an issue?
[05:10] <mdz> elmo: works for me
[05:10] <Keybuk> just a text file of source package names elmo thinks Debian have newer than warty would be ideal
[05:11] <Kamion> sorry I'm late
[05:11] <mdz> Keybuk: as part of your output, can you include a debdiff from Hoary->the merged version?
[05:11] <Keybuk> yeah, if elmo installs that on rookery <g>
[05:11] <mdz> good point
[05:12] <mdz> I've been nagging him for a week to put it on jackass :-P
[05:12] <elmo> err, you so haven't
[05:12] <elmo> anyway, it's on rookery
[05:12] <mdz> Oct 29 12:41:07 <mdz>   elmo: debdiff on jackass, please?
[05:13] <Keybuk> would you prefer debdiff from base -> {old hoary, new hoary} as well?  instead of just ordinary patch?
[05:13] <elmo> mdz: ... one IRC message [that I missed]  is nagging for a week?
[05:13] <mdz> elmo: I could dig up more :-)
[05:13] <mdz> Oct 26 15:25:44 <mdz>   could I get debdiff+interdiff on jackass?
[05:14] <Keybuk> mdz: so, this debzilla thing, what's that?
[05:14] <mdz> Keybuk: that's the thing which creates bugs in bugzilla based on debbugs bugs
[05:14] <elmo> do you want just main, or main +universe?
[05:15] <mdz> Keybuk: matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004/debzilla--mainline--0
[05:16] <mdz> elmo: ideally both, but filterable
[05:16] <mdz> e.g., mark them as main or not in the text file
[05:16] <mdz> so we could generate the output for universe, but not file bugs
[05:17] <elmo> ok
[05:17] <mdz> Keybuk: work for you?
[05:18] <Keybuk> yup
[05:19] <mdz> Keybuk: yeah, base->new hoary is good too
[05:19] <mdz> I'm hoping those will be small and easily reviewable
[05:19] <Kamion> has the problem that we often don't have the right base been fixed?
[05:19] <Keybuk> yeah, hopefully
[05:19] <Kamion> that bit me with a lot of the last round of merges
[05:19] <Keybuk> Kamion: theoretically it's seen the right base now :p
[05:20] <Keybuk> but yeah, I'll write some code to string ubuntu* and look on snapshot for that
[05:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: certainly won't've done for some of the ones I'm doing
[05:20] <Kamion> ok
[05:20] <Keybuk> string? strip!
[05:20] <Keybuk> that's actually easy ... the only reason I didn't do it before is because I'm fallible and didn't think of that <g>
[05:20] <elmo> keybuk: jackass/lorraine/needs-merged.txt
[05:20] <elmo> missing universe atm. but is that okay?
[05:21] <Keybuk> cool
[05:21] <Keybuk> yup
[05:21] <Keybuk> I assume it'll be s/main/universe/ :p
[05:21] <elmo> for universe ones, yes
[05:22] <elmo> it's "%s %s" % (pkg, component)
[05:22] <mdz> so I guess we'll find out in the course of doing this, how much manual work it will truly be
[05:23] <mdz> I think it will be fairly reasonable
[05:23] <mdz> but hopefully just enough to provide the necessary incentives to push our changes upstream :-)
[05:23] <mdz> speaking of which, herbert's kernel-package stem patch needs to go upstream
[05:23] <Keybuk> what are we doing wrt to the current patches, btw?
[05:24] <Keybuk> have they all been pushed, or do we need to push some, etc.
[05:25] <mdz> we don't have those figures
[05:25] <Kamion> I've been going over d-i stuff as I upload the merges, pushing upstream as appropriate
[05:26] <mdz> of course we do have a fair volume of stuff that upstream isn't going to want
[05:26] <mdz> maybe after hoary when we have better tools, we can do a comprehensive review and make sure that everything has been submitted upstream
[05:27] <Kamion> indeed, by far the greatest volume of the d-i patches is branding
[05:27] <mdz> maybe we'll even have someplace to store that metadata :-P
[05:27] <mdz> and mark patches as should-go-upstream or not
[05:27] <mdz> anything else to discuss as part of the meeting?
[05:28] <Kamion> seeds?
[05:28] <mdz> good call
[05:28] <Keybuk> I'm going to finish brutalising hct's cli today ... will work on the continual merge thing tomorrow
[05:28] <Kamion> (viz., having some)
[05:28] <mdz> should we temporarily use some other repository for the master seed lists until the wiki is fixed?
[05:28] <Kamion> I'm happy with a world-writable text file on rookery, personally :-)
[05:28] <mdz> they could be part of germinate's source tree
[05:28] <Keybuk> we could always use the old wiki?
[05:28] <Kamion> Keybuk: that might be a plan
[05:29] <mdz> Keybuk: only if we can enable changes on a per-page basis
[05:29] <mdz> what about a group-writable arch archive?
[05:30] <Kamion> as long as we can get at it from {my dev boxes, little, jackass} that'd work
[05:30] <Kamion> I don't think it should be part of germinate's source tree
[05:31] <mdz> is the wiki really the best place for it long-term?
[05:31] <mdz> maybe when we were editing it every day, it was
[05:31] <mdz> we can keep proposals in the wiki, and move them into the official seeds by other means
[05:32] <mdz> needs a change history -> arch
[05:32] <elmo> the nice thing about the wiki is it was a http get for germinate
[05:33] <elmo> or anything else that wanted to fuck around with seeds
[05:33] <Kamion> elmo: we can do that with arch too
[05:33] <mdz> a tla get isn't much different, no?
[05:33] <Kamion> elmo: dump a checkout on rookery
[05:33] <mdz> can't tla dump a file for you in one step?
[05:34] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, true
[05:34] <mdz> even if not, a checkout isn't a big deal, I suppose
[05:34] <Kamion> fewer dependencies would be good, but I don't see a problem with having a cronned tla update on people/~cjwatson/seeds/ or whatever
[05:34] <mdz> I don't see a problem with germinate doing a tla get
[05:34] <Kamion> it's slow enough already :P
[05:35] <mdz> yeah, exactly :-)
[05:35] <mdz> what should we call the archive?
[05:35] <Kamion> and where should it go? do we want non-canonical staff to be able to write to it?
[05:36] <Kamion> (I assume the answer is "eventually, yes")
[05:36] <mdz> right
[05:36] <mdz> but it isn't a big deal if they can't quite yet
[05:36] <mdz> it's not something which changes often, and we can propagate things easily enough when there's a consensus
[05:36] <Kamion> so just chinstrap as before then, I guess
[05:36] <mdz> yeah
[05:37] <mdz> more a question of a personal archive vs. something else
[05:37] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me if you want to keep them in your archive next to germinate
[05:37] <Kamion> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--warty--0 etc.?
[05:37] <Kamion> mdz: that's a bit technically awkward for group-writability, because my archive on chinstrap is only a mirror
[05:38] <Kamion> and y'all don't have logins on my home server
[05:38] <mdz> ah, separate then, I suppose
[05:38] <mdz> does anyone know if we have an official naming scheme for public archives from the arch guys?
[05:38] <Keybuk> we do for imports, yes
[05:38] <mdz> anything which we could apply here as well, for consistency?
] /<source>--<branch>--<version>
[05:39] <Keybuk> Kamion's idea seemed sound to me
[05:39] <mdz> the ubuntu-devel one?
[05:39] <Keybuk> yeah
[05:40] <mdz> works for me
[05:40] <Kamion> if there are no objections, I can create that after the meeting, import warty's seeds, and tag them onto hoary
[05:40] <mdz> we can always change it if the arch secret police object
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[05:40] <mdz> we have a bunch of seed changes to review and effect
[05:41] <mdz> I have a list from the kickoff meeting
[05:41] <mdz> and I believe there is stuff in the wiki for hoary
[05:42] <mdz> arything else to discuss?
[05:42] <Keybuk> not from me
[05:43] <mdz> ok, adjourned
[05:44] <mdz> thanks, guys