[12:00] <Kamion> how do I make commit mails happen with arch?
[12:00] <thom> just struggling to work out the magic to let firefox know it's a theme
[12:00] <thom> it's shipped and all without problem, and i know how to make it the default
[12:00] <pitti> Kamion: ~/.arch-params/hook
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: it gets called with $1 == action (e. g. "commit") and some environment variables which show the archive and revision and so on
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-arch/tutorial/using-hooks.html
[12:02] <Kamion> ~/.arch-params/hook isn't acceptable here, this is a shared archive
[12:03] <Kamion> looks like I'll need a cron job on chinstrap or something
[12:03] <Kamion> mdz,jdub: what do you think of a seed-changes list?
[12:03] <jdub> thom: heh, bong.
[12:03] <jdub> Kamion: mailing list?
[12:03] <Kamion> yeah
[12:03] <jdub> Kamion: BONG!
[12:03] <Kamion> I'll take that as a no, shall I? :)
[12:04] <jdub> ;-)
[12:04] <elmo> I could make teri send notifications
[12:04] <jdub> seems like overkill
[12:04] <jdub> Kamion: maybe daily updates to -devel?
[12:04] <elmo> mdz's been asking me to make lorraine do that for a good 6 months now
[12:04] <Kamion> diffs between yesterday and today, something like that?
[12:04] <thom> he, we could get some hot rss love, too
[12:04] <Kamion> cdimage actually sends me something like that already, although that's post-germinate
[12:05] <mdz> Kamion: now that it's in arch, that's easily automatable, right?
[12:05] <Kamion> it diffs debian-cd/tasks/warty-{base,desktop,ship,supported} with the new version
[12:05] <Kamion> mdz: yep
[12:05] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, I think the existing hoary-changes would be a good destination
[12:05] <Kamion> hoary-changes? guess that makes sense
[12:05] <jdub> mmm
[12:05] <mdz> elmo's sync notifications, etc. I've been nagging about should go there too
[12:05] <Kamion> what're the posting restrictions there?
[12:05] <pitti> Kamion: right, this does not work in an archive, you have to install the hook on every machine you do commits on
[12:05] <jdub> Kamion: um, none, atm. :)
[12:06] <Kamion> not strict enough, judging by the person who randomly mailed it earlier today :)
[12:06] <pitti> Kamion: CVS supports this because it uses its own protocol, but http does not allow to put executable hooks into an archive
[12:06] <jdub> elmo: would it be crack to get katie to send mails from a particular From: instead of from the uploader?
[12:06] <carlos> Kamion: Do we have a manual about the Ubuntu installation?
[12:06] <Kamion> pitti: right
[12:06] <mdz> jdub, Kamion: I think we're to blame for putting it in the hoary announcement mail
[12:06] <pitti> Kamion: however,  there is a hackish workaround
[12:06] <Kamion> carlos: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/release/doc/manual/en/
[12:06] <carlos> my cousin is asking me about it to learn to handle manual partitions
[12:07] <carlos> ok
[12:07] <elmo> jdub: I think so yes, we'd be losing IMO useful information because mailman sucks and can't filter worth jack
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: you can put the hook into the arch archive and only have a general hook which checks this out and executes it
[12:07] <carlos> Kamion: thanks
[12:07] <Kamion> jdub: that kind of sucks, because my mailer wouldn't show the right thing any more
[12:07] <jdub> Kamion: right thing? oh, so you can reply to the person?
[12:07] <Kamion> pitti: thanks, but I think I've considered hooks and rejected them - they just won't work for this use case
[12:07] <Kamion> jdub: right
[12:07] <jdub> mmm
[12:07] <Kamion> plus the name in the left-hand column
[12:07] <jdub> well, i can basically only filter on sender
[12:07] <jdub> so atm anyone can post
[12:07] <jdub> which sucks the big one
[12:08] <pasc> stick some procmail in front of it
[12:08] <jdub> i could start making it a moderated list
[12:08] <Kamion> katie could set reply-to, I suppose, but ugh
[12:08] <jdub> and add senders
[12:08] <jdub> Kamion: from (something standard), reply-to (uploader)?
[12:08] <elmo> jdub: dude, that's really all mailman can offer in terms of filtering?
[12:08] <elmo> jdub: debian-devel-changes has a reply-to debian-devel; we could do the same or -user
[12:08] <Kamion> I think I'd go with pasc here
[12:09] <Kamion> if mailman sucks too much we should put something in front of it
[12:09] <jdub> elmo: it currently sets reply-to
[12:09] <Kamion> or torture Mithrandir until he fixes it
[12:09] <elmo> ah, k
[12:09] <jdub> i would like to dodge the exim crap to put procmail in front of one list, however :)
[12:10] <jdub> elmo: seriously, this is whack. you admin exim. i admin lists. you don't have access. i do.
[12:10] <jdub> I WANT A REFUND
[12:11] <pasc> jdub: you might as well put procmail in front of all lists
[12:20] <mdz> elmo: these guys aren't replying, they're just posting random stuff to the -changes lists
[12:21] <mdz> no clue how they got there other than the link to the hoary-changes mailman page in the hoary announcement
[12:39] <pitti> Good night guys! Happy President voting to our U.S.A. folks! :-)
[12:41] <amu> Kermit 4 President!
[12:43] <carlos> pitti: night
[01:05] <mdz> Kamion: I suppose I should update ubuntu-meta
[01:05] <Kamion> you noticed the debootstrap upload then?
[01:06] <mdz> is there an easy way to tla get something without the register-archive madness?
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[01:06] <Kamion> mdz: don't believe so
[01:06] <mdz> tla register-archive seems like a nasty thing for a script to do
[01:06] <mdz> lifeless: ?
[01:06] <Kamion> so register-archive once per machine?
[01:06] <elmo> *cough*
[01:06] <mdz> I really thought it could do this
[01:06] <Kamion> you can always HTTP-get the checkout
[01:06] <Kamion> on rookery
[01:06] <mdz> that'll do
[01:06] <lifeless> mdz: not really.
[01:07] <elmo> elmo-paraphrase(tm): "<mdz> no, no tla is fine, quit yer whining" ... "<mdz> tla sucks for this"
[01:07] <Kamion> I'm trying a test debootstrap now; it'll be better than before, but I don't know if it'll quite work yet
[01:07] <lifeless> register-archive is non invasive. and if you just want a deb, grab the deb source, or even the binary
[01:07] <Kamion> lifeless: I imagine he's talking about ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0, not a package
[01:07] <mdz> lifeless: ubuntu-meta contains a script which the package builder can run in order to sync it with the published seed lists
[01:07] <Kamion> s/package/Debian package/
[01:07] <mdz> lifeless: the seed lists are now in an arch archive
[01:08] <lifeless> register-archive is fine to do from a script.
[01:08] <jdub> obviously we need debian packages for the seeds
[01:08] <thom> mdz: ctrl+w again? :/
[01:08] <lifeless> if its already registered, its a noop.
[01:08] <mdz> lifeless: package builds should not mess with the user's home directory.
[01:08] <Kamion> you don't run this script automatically, though, do you?
[01:09] <mdz> no
[01:09] <jdub> lifeless: the man has a point
[01:09] <mdz> but the principle still applies
[01:09] <lifeless> jdub: svn, cvs both will futz with ~ 
[01:09] <Kamion> I'd consider it OK then ... alternatively, just say "you need to tla register-archive this first"
[01:09] <lifeless> so I think its a moot point.
[01:09] <jdub> lifeless: but optionally don't
[01:09] <lifeless> jdub: ha. thats called HOME=...
[01:09] <mdz> lifeless: cvs *so* doesn't
[01:10] <mdz> do a cvs checkout, ls -altr ~
[01:10] <lifeless> .cvspass
[01:10] <mdz> zero modifications
[01:10] <elmo> cvs login does dude
[01:10] <Kamion> you only need cvs login for pserver though
[01:10] <mdz> I don't run cvs login
[01:10] <mdz> and you don't need cvs login for anonymous pserver
[01:11] <Kamion> indeed
[01:11] <mdz> this is so not an unreasonable thing to want to do
[01:11] <jdub> fix baz!
[01:11] <jdub> el fixo!
[01:11] <jdub> el fixio del scorchio!
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: considered converting away from wiki markup for the seeds?
[01:18] <elmo> can we pleeeeeeeeeeeeease add commentary, and not just in the revision history
[01:18] <elmo> s/commentary/rationale/ if you like
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: no objection in principle, but that involves germinate changes
[01:18] <elmo> at least for new ones
[01:18] <Kamion> elmo: ok, will try to remember
[01:18] <jdub> "added elmosplatter for obvious reasons"
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: sure, trivial ones, though
[01:18] <Kamion>             if not line.startswith(" * "):
[01:18] <Kamion>                 continue
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: right, it just wasn't top of the list :)
[01:18] <mdz> another day, perhaps
[01:18] <Kamion> I'm more interested in having a variable substitution mechanism so I can simplify the installer seed, personally
[01:18] <Kamion> I've tried to add that a few times now and given up, though
[01:18] <Kamion> I think it must have exceeded the 15 minutes of free time when I thought "hey, let's hack on germinate"
[01:18] <elmo> restricted seed would be good at some stage too
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: what differences should I expect to see?
[01:18] <elmo> the current seed syncage stuff has a 'lala lala you said restricted, I'm not listening lala lala'
[01:18] <elmo> +policy
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: currently it only sees the addition of ttf-arabeyes
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: the stuff we just talked about doesn't seem to be in the public checkout yet
[01:18] <Kamion> are you running against hoary (-s hoary -d hoary)?
[01:18] <elmo> kamion: is that not the default? :)
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: I'm running ubuntu-meta's update script
[01:19] <mdz> Kamion: and then when trying to explain the results, I looked at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/seeds/hoary/desktop
[01:19] <mdz> Kamion: which still has fam, e.g.
[01:19] <mdz> jdub: so what's going to break if I upload ubuntu-desktop to hoary, pulling in gamin for everyone?
[01:20] <Kamion> mdz: bleh, I forgot a step in the cron job, fixed
[01:20] <jdub> mdz: not a heck of a lot
[01:20] <jdub> mdz: little notification quirks
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: probably should be, which is why I asked earlier if you were still running germinate against warty
[01:20] <elmo> Kamion: no, I'm not
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: if you are, I don't want to break your stuff
[01:20] <Kamion> ok
[01:20] <mdz> jdub: should we tell everyone to remove fam?
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: or sid?
[01:20] <jdub> hell yeah
[01:20] <jdub> and portmap
[01:20] <jdub> fuck them right off
[01:21] <elmo> Kamion: I run it with custom Packages files, so don't worry about me
[01:21] <Kamion> ok
[01:22] <Kamion> 2004-11-03 00:21:32 GMT Colin Watson <cjwatson@canonical.com>   patch-10
[01:22] <Kamion>     Summary:
[01:22] <Kamion>       default everything to hoary
[01:22] <jdub> mdz: conflicts in u-d would be nasty, but good :)
[01:22] <mdz> elmo: gamin needs to move into main
[01:22] <Kamion> elmo: restricted doesn't seem to make much sense as a seed
[01:22] <mdz> before I can upload this
[01:22] <elmo> gar, you mean I have to actually upgrade to this new germinate rather than whine about it?
[01:22] <Kamion> elmo: it's partly a subset of base, partly desktop, partly ship, partly supported, partly installer ...
[01:23] <Kamion> that'd be a nightmare to implement
[01:23] <Kamion> elmo: oh, I've been meaning to make germinate able to download and concatenate multiple Packages files, which might help you ... may actually get round to that soon
[01:24] <elmo> mdz: done
[01:24] <Kamion> d'oh, I meant to go to bed like an hour ago
[01:25] <Kamion> night all
[01:27] <Kamion> ooh: I: Base system installed successfully.
[01:27] <jdub> heh
[01:27] <jdub> night Kamion 
[01:27] <elmo> mdz: ok to pull in mingw32 btw?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think it's for syslinux.exe
[01:29] <Mithrandir> which we really shouldn't need to build
[01:29] <Mithrandir> somebody should whack syslinux' build system
[01:29] <elmo> oh, well, that answers that :)
[01:29] <elmo> Mithrandir: oh.. do we ship it tho?
[01:30] <Mithrandir> elmo: the .exe?  No idea.
[01:30] <elmo> if we ship it, we should build it.. if we don't
[01:31] <Mithrandir> we build it, but I don't know if we ship it.
[01:32] <Mithrandir> and I really don't see any reason to ship it?
[01:34] <jdub> would this be a useful addition to cdrecord or something?
[01:34] <jdub> http://vu1tur.eu.org/tools/
[01:49] <mdz> voting, back in a bit
[01:56] <amu> ;)
[02:42] <mdz> lamont: ping?
[05:04] <lamont_r> moo
[05:10] <mdz> lamont_r: voted?
[05:14] <lamont_r> yep
[05:14] <lamont_r> that was like 14 hours ago. :-)
[05:14] <lamont_r> before the day went to hell in a hand basket
[05:53] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:07] <Micksa> is there any reason why I shouldn't be able to make a bootable netinst CD out of the kernel image and initrd for the pxe boot stuff?
[06:07] <fabbione> Micksa: because you don't need it?
[06:07] <fabbione> there is the same kernel and initrd on the install cd
[06:08] <fabbione> you can just change the line at syslinux to start that kernel
[06:11] <Micksa> I want a CC-size netinst CD
[06:11] <Micksa> okay, I'll look
[06:11] <Micksa> I haven't actually tried yet :)
[06:12] <Micksa> just curious
[06:40] <fabbione> iirc it is planned...
[06:40] <fabbione> but i don't want to lie :-)
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: you around?
[08:41] <tsblack> Hello all
[08:41] <tsblack> Thomas here - in SA with Mark for Ubuntu SA launch
[08:42] <fabbione> hey tsblack 
[08:42] <tsblack> Hey fabbione, just the man I wanted to see!
[08:43] <tsblack> How do I get Warty installed on an ide / sata syste,?
[08:43] <tsblack> system
[08:43] <fabbione> uh?
[08:43] <fabbione> i am the X man ;)
[08:43] <fabbione> let me see.. there should be a howto somewhere
[08:43] <tsblack> Ok, on the X side, I'm busy downloading the nvidia-glx stuff
[08:44] <tsblack> it doesn't seem to ship standard on cd?
[08:44] <jamesh> it installed to an SATA disk without problem for me
[08:45] <tsblack> On some systems you can force the sata into legacy mode where it recognises the sata as a typical hdx, not on this intel server..
[08:45] <tsblack> Depending on bios settings, it either recognises ide cdrom or sata hd, not both.
[08:46] <tsblack> fabbione: remember that fuzzy display mark was talking about yesterday?
[08:46] <fabbione> tsblack: yes i do
[08:46] <tsblack> Only happens at max res of 1200x800, all other modes fine.
[08:46] <fabbione> tsblack: i think all the SATA discussion was on the user mailing list but i don't have it handy
[08:47] <fabbione> tsblack: can you describe me the problem in details? i could really understand much on the phonr
[08:47] <fabbione> the line was very distrurbed
[08:47] <fabbione> and full of noise
[08:47] <jdub> yo tsblack 
[08:47] <tsblack> The display looks noisy, ie pixels not quite in their place
[08:47] <fabbione> ehm i couldn't
[08:47] <tsblack> hi jdub
[08:48] <fabbione> tsblack: ok.. that must be a driver bug... if you have the opportunity, please set the resolution to that level again and send me /var/log/XFree86.0.log of both the working and non-working setup
[08:48] <fabbione> tsblack: and if possible a picture of the broken display
[08:49] <tsblack> mmm, will try...
[08:49] <tsblack> going to give nvidia-glx a bash.
[08:49] <fabbione> ok
[08:49] <tsblack> Any idea why the colour depth on nv is so bad?
[08:49] <fabbione> tsblack: it should be 24 bits as default
[08:49] <fabbione> no problems here
[08:49] <fabbione> (i have almost only nv cards)
[08:52] <tsblack> brb, need to test display..
[09:29] <pitti> Morning!
[10:08] <daniels> elmo: please sync shorewall 2.0.10-1
[10:24] <ChrisH> Hi, developers. :) I've been contributing to Debian for 1.5 years. Now I'd like to join the Ubuntu development team to contribute packages directly to Ubuntu. Is the "MaintainerCandidates" page in the Wiki the right place to get signed up?
[10:25] <sivang> ChrisH : hi!
[10:27] <Keybuk> jdub: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8754
[10:31] <smurfix> Any ubuntuwiki-savvy person here? I can't edit my own page. :-/
[10:33] <smurfix> Ah, just saw the front page. Duh.  ;-)
[10:48] <sivang> smurfix : have you logged in?
[10:49] <smurfix> Yep. I just saw on the frontpage that the wiki's going to be switched over to Something Else, so I assume that the pages are locked because of that. ?
[10:50] <sivang> smurfix : what URL have you been using?
[10:51] <Mitario> lo everyone
[10:54] <smurfix> sivang: *Sigh*. Apparently, the old one. wiki.ubuntulinux.org. The new wiki doesn't know me yet; is that intentional?
[10:55] <smurfix> sivang: The MaintainerCandidates page on the new wiki has a few URLs that still point ot the old wiiki; I'll fix that as soon as I log in there.
[10:56] <smurfix> sivang: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/forgottenpassword => "A system error occurred".
[10:56] <smurfix> ... in other words, no login for me at the moment.
[10:57] <daniels> from the forums -- ubuntu box set artwork: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/11944873/
[11:04] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[11:09] <sivang> hey pitti! how are you?
[11:10] <pitti> sivang: fine, thanks! Just read the latest news on cnn.com. The famous first/last/only words of the Petunia Bowl in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" come to my mind...
[11:11] <elmo> daniels: done
[11:12] <daniels> elmo: thanks
[11:13] <fabbione> morning elmo
[11:13] <fabbione> elmo: btw.. you rock :-)
[11:13] <elmo_away> fabbione: err, morning.. I do ?
[11:13] <daniels> aye
[11:13] <daniels> elmo_away: that's the last of my sync merge bugs
[11:15] <fabbione> hey azeem 
[11:15] <azeem> ciao fabbione 
[11:17] <sivang> smurfix : you can try and create a new account on the new wiki
[11:17] <sivang> smurfix : can continue from there
[11:18] <smurfix> sivang: I'd like to do that with my old email address if at all possible.
[11:19] <pitti> fabbione: Did you see Joey's latest reply to the last apache fix? There's another patch (and this time it's already public :-) )
[11:19] <sivang> smurfix : ok, I suggest you sine up for ubuntu-doc@ , and mail the list - I bet Lulu would get back to you and reset your account or help you with this.
[11:19] <pitti> fabbione: do you or do I?
[11:20] <smurfix> sivang: OK, will do, thanks.
[11:20] <fabbione> pitti: ENOTIME
[11:20] <pitti> fabbione: okay, I can make the fix for sid, if you want
[11:21] <pitti> fabbione: I think we use the same procedure for Warty: fix, but don't officially announce
[11:22] <smurfix> *sigh*, ubuntu-doc isn't on gmane yet. I'll ping them.
[11:22] <fabbione> pitti: fine for me
[11:22] <sivang> smurfix : gmane?
[11:22] <smurfix> sivang: it's a rather large mail-to-usenet gateway.
[11:22] <fabbione> pitti: for the next 2 weeks whatever is not X related = ENOTIME
[11:22] <Kamion> elmo_away: we seem to be missing Task: ubuntu-desktop for hoary
[11:23] <sivang> smurfix : ah usenet, bring in old memories from my time as a BBS operator :)
[11:23] <pitti> fabbione: okay. BTW, as a new maintainer I thought about packaging the apache X11 plugin :-)
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: we are having the X-Sprint here in dk
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: go ahead :-)))
[11:23] <smurfix> sivang: ;-)  It's rather nice, I read most of my mailing lists through them.
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: together with my removal from the uploaders ;)
[11:24] <pitti> fabbione: oh, it's already running? I wish you all the best for it
[11:24] <sivang> smurfix : are you using one?
[11:24] <smurfix> sivang: ? One of what?
[11:24] <fabbione> pitti: we already have packages :-)
[11:24] <pitti> fabbione: daniels is with you in .dk right now?
[11:24] <pitti> GO X-TEAM, GO!
[11:24] <fabbione> pitti: we are testin Xfree86 -> X.org upgrades 
[11:25] <fabbione> and build situation
[11:25] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `xlibmesa-dri-dbg' in `../xlibmesa-dri-dbg_6.8.1-0.0_i386.deb'.
[11:25] <pitti> fabbione: a PITA, or does it reasonably work?
[11:25] <fabbione> see...
[11:25] <sivang> smurfix : bulletine board system..
[11:25] <fabbione> pitti: 50/50%
[11:27] <smurfix> sivang: I wrote one myself. 25 years ago. Compiled BASIC on a Commodore C-64, obliterated my parents' phone line, and all that. But these days? NFW.
[11:28] <daniels> pitti: hello there
[11:28] <daniels> pitti: live from casa del fabbione!
[11:28] <sivang> smurfix  : haha that's cool , I did a RemoteAccess clone in pascal, way long long ago :)
[11:33] <fabbione> OK OK.. this is RADIO UBUNTU live from DK today!
[11:33] <fabbione> DJ GIMME SOMME MUSIC
[11:35] <sivang> fabbione : DJ, do you accept requests?
[11:38] <pitti> fabbione: the "X-Files" soundtrack?
[11:50] <daniels> fabbione: do you really want me to start playing Aussie hip-hop?
[11:55] <fabbione> eheh
[11:55] <fabbione> daniels: no.. you are not allowed to put hip hop in my house
[11:57] <daniels> fabbione: how about dnb?
[11:58] <fabbione> yeah
[12:14] <fabbione> UHAAAAA
[12:14] <fabbione> almost the first upgrade without glitches :-)
[12:14] <fabbione> WE ORCK
[12:14] <fabbione> and ROCK
[12:14] <fabbione> sometimes even HIP HOP
[12:14] <azeem> fo 'shizzle
[12:15] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yeah, you rock, but you knew that already.
[12:24] <Mitario> back!
[12:24] <Mitario> lo everyone
[12:27] <Mitario> mvo_, here?
[12:27] <mvo_> Mitario: yes
[12:27] <Mitario> got answer from the kerneljanitors?
[12:28] <mvo_> not yet, they life on brasil time, I expect them to be around in 2-3h :)
[12:28] <mvo_> are there changes in the code since the last version you send me?
[12:28] <Mitario> not really
[12:28] <Mitario> no vital changes
[12:29] <Mitario> maybe a diff of 2 lines :)
[12:29] <Mitario> so doesn't matter i'll retype that code
[12:29] <Mitario> mostly debug code anyways
[12:31] <mvo_> Mitario: oh, ok
[12:55] <ChrisH> Anyone here in charge of the server that sends wiki passwords out? Looks like it has no valid reverse DNS resolution (PTR) so my mail server blocked it in the first place.
[01:14] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: I don't think the process has really started yet, but I think that's a definitive goal, yes.
[01:16] <ChrisH> Mithrandir: Are there any number of how many maintainers there are already? I know these questions may sound stupid but these came to my mind when comparing debian and ubuntu.
[01:17] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: I think we're about 15-20 people.
[01:17] <ChrisH> Mithrandir: When I saw the new maintainer process guidelines of Ubuntu I thought "oh, no, not the same beaurocracy as in debian".
[01:17] <ChrisH> Mithrandir: So I assume there are more people doing QA on debian packages that are included in Ubuntu than people that directly contribute packages to Ubuntu?
[01:18] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: we contribute stuff back and try to stay in sync with Debian -- I'm not sure if there are any real packages in Ubuntu which aren't in Debian.
[01:19] <Mithrandir> (some artwork and meta-packages, but I'm not sure about anything else)
[01:19] <smurfix> ChrisH: I didn't have to wait two years. 
[01:19] <smurfix> ChrisH: ... though I do agree that the process could be handled somewhat better.
[01:20] <thom> please lets not have a discussion of NM here :-)
[01:20] <smurfix> thom: Debian-NM, no. Ubuntu-NM ..?
[01:21] <ChrisH> Why not? :) I don't mean to bash anyone/anything. But I'm not quite happy with some aspects of Debian. And I'm trying to start a mental decision task if there's a way to use the great Debian technial background without some obvious hassles.
[01:27] <fabbione> RIDE THE SPLIT!
[01:28] <fabbione> YEAH MORE!!!!
[01:28] <mjg59> iwlist scan shows them
[01:28] <thom> mjg59: current ubuntu
[01:28] <fabbione> WELCOME TO FEE NODE
[01:28] <sid77> net split!
[01:28] <mjg59> thom: Right. I'm wondering whether 2.6.9 has changed something.
[01:28] <Mithrandir> daniels: I imagine xorg will hit sid post-sarge?
[01:28] <daniels> thom: oh, I only just caught scrollback
[01:28] <daniels> thom: networkmanager is horrific for me
[01:28] <daniels> thom: this is just with the gnome wifi applet
[01:28] <daniels> Mithrandir: yes, I've been instructed not to change it pre-sarge
[01:28] <mjg59> I get strength for the current connection with stuff, but I don't get strength for other connections
[01:28] <tseng> i get strength bars in netapplet/wifiapplet
[01:28] <daniels> thom: it showers me with hate, saying that it couldn't connect to the wired network, and new dialogs spawn as soon as I kill the old
[01:28] <sid77> YOOOOHOHOHOH
[01:28] <mjg59> thom: What does your iwlist scan output look like?
[01:28] <tseng> it uses a different method im presy sure
[01:28] <sid77> (like a heelflip ;)
[01:28] <tseng> pretty?
[01:29] <thom> daniels: what version - sounds like something i fixed in -2
[01:29] <daniels> thom: -1
[01:29] <daniels> let me try -2
[01:30] <thom> mjg59: um, you want the lot? or just the fact that it looks to be giving me correct quality/signal/noise
[01:30] <Mithrandir> daniels: where can we get that crack?
[01:34] <mjg59> thom: If you could stick the lot somewhere (assuming there's no personal information in it) that would be great
[01:35] <mjg59> My suspicion is that 2.6.9 reports stuff slightly differently
[01:36] <thom> http://people.debian.org/~thom/iwlist-output
[01:39] <daniels> Mithrandir: http://trider-g7/ubuntu-local/
[01:39] <ChrisH> tseng: In what way are the goals different? I probably missed a line due to the netsplit.
[01:40] <tseng> ChrisH: the goal of ubuntu is to make a polished release with 6 month cycles, and provide commercial support on top
[01:40] <tseng> you know what debian is up to
[01:40] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'll be happy to be your guinea pig with my home system. :)
[01:41] <daniels> Mithrandir: isn't that amd64?
[01:41] <tseng> struggling to make a release once in a blue moon, and support is up to you
[01:41] <Mithrandir> daniels: it is.
[01:41] <ChrisH> tseng: I know which direction Debian is heading to. But I don't know what they are up to.
[01:41] <daniels> Mithrandir: we're still beating out some issues, anyway
[01:41] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'm not at home either, so. :)
[01:41] <daniels> Mithrandir: ahr, no amd64 binaries as yet, but it should build and work OK
[01:41] <Mithrandir> daniels: and trider isn't available outside fabbione's lan, is it?
[01:41] <daniels> Mithrandir: that was sort of the point :)
[01:42] <ChrisH> tseng: Ubuntu sounds like the founders tried to improve the Debian release cycles, failed in that, and out of frustration started their own distribution. It would be no problem to offer commercial support for Debian. So the argument left is the long release cycle.
[01:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you're evil and bad, giving trider-g7 link-local addresses in DNS.
[01:43] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: and the fact that we don't support the whole of debian.
[01:43] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: and that we're able to make things act in certain ways -- gnome is your desktop, if you want kde, you're on your own.
[01:44] <ChrisH> Mithrandir: I just read that the release criteria are more relaxed than in Debian (which often delayed the Sarge release).
[01:44] <Mithrandir> removing choices means it becomes simpler for the user, in a lot of cases.
[01:44] <thom> ChrisH: nothing about a time based release is relaxed :-)
[01:45] <ChrisH> thom: Nah. I meant the "we can't release Sarge because the libfoobar could possibly violate a patent of Microsoft that we heard rumors about at the bus station".
[01:45] <Mithrandir> daniels: actually, I get permission denied. :P
[01:46] <ChrisH> So Ubuntu was created out of the need for fast releas cycles for end-users rather than getting rid of Debian-political problems?
[01:47] <smurfix> thom: ... except for the fact that Ubuntu has a few people that get told "fix it", while Debian ... well, that rant would be somewhat off-topic here.
[01:47] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: the biggest problem with Debian's release cycle is not that it's slow, it's that it's so freaking unpredictable.
[01:47] <daniels> Mithrandir: shame!
[01:48] <daniels> :P
[01:48] <Mithrandir> I waaant myyy craaack
[01:49] <mjg59> thom: Yeah. My output looks nothing like that.
[01:50] <mjg59> thom: http://tyrosine.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/scan
[01:50] <thom> woah
[01:50] <thom> ok, so that's changed rather dramatically
[01:50] <mjg59> That's with an ipw2100
[01:50] <mjg59> So I need to fix up netapplet. Sigh.
[01:50] <thom> fun
[01:51] <mjg59> It's either kernel or wireless-tools
[01:51] <thom> wonder if NM will cope with that
[01:51] <thom> mjg59: i'm on sid's wireless-tools
[01:52] <mjg59> Ah. Probably kernel, then.
[01:52] <mjg59> Unless mine have come from experimental, somehow
[01:52] <mjg59> Hmm. No, I'm actually behind sid it seems
[01:54] <daniels> local mirrors are sweet
[01:54] <ChrisH> Mithrandir: Isn't the Debian release manager working for Ubuntu, too? ;)
[01:55] <daniels> ChrisH: no
[01:55] <Mithrandir> ChrisH: the Debian Release Manager is a team consisting of three people (iirc), one of which is working on Ubuntu.
[01:55] <daniels> well, the RM (who just resigned) does not; one of the release team members does, the other does not
[01:55] <Mithrandir> daniels: I thought aba was a RA now as well?
[01:55] <ChrisH> When I first read "release manager *team*" I thought: thank god!
[01:56] <daniels> Mithrandir: oh?  well yeah, then that would be 1/3.
[01:56] <ChrisH> Having single persons do such an important job alone is probably the biggest flaw in debian.
[02:00] <smurfix> ChrisH: Quite a few Debian jobs share that problem.
[02:01] <daniels> this is #debian material, dudes
[02:14] <ChrisH> I'm just trying to find out if I could help contribute to Ubuntu while staying mentally sane.
[02:14] <thom> we'd like to think we're mostly sane... besides fabio
[02:15] <fabbione> thom: true :-)
[02:15] <fabbione> I AM NOT SANE
[02:15] <fabbione> :P
[02:15] <daniels> ChrisH: here's a tip -- don't maintain X ;)
[02:15] <fabbione> ChrisH: what would you like to do beside X?
[02:15] <daniels> or firefox
[02:16] <daniels> i hear the firefox maintainer is totally insane
[02:16] <fabbione> or mozilla
[02:16] <fabbione> or thunderbird
[02:16] <fabbione> that btw keeps crashing once in a while...
[02:17] <ChrisH> fabbione: I had prepared a page about myself: http://workaround.org/ubuntu/
[02:17] <fabbione> ChrisH: checking
[02:17] <thom> fabbione: thunderbird sucks, kthxbye :-)
[02:17] <daniels> ChrisH: we can't decide for you ;)
[02:18] <ChrisH> fabbione: I couldn't decide yet whether to put the page up on the MaintainerCandidates page.
[02:18] <ChrisH> daniels: But I can abuse you to help me make up my mind. :)
[02:21] <fabbione> ChrisH: well there is a lot you can do.. but you need to find your own path
[02:21] <fabbione> doing what you feel more comfortable with
[02:23] <daniels> find something you enjoy
[02:24] <carlos> seb128: do we have any GNOME package in hoary/warty that uses cdbs and adds new strings to the orig.tar.gz? 
[02:25] <ChrisH> So there is not the classical way to first maintain packages (as there are hardly any ubuntu-specific packages) and the look further...
[02:25] <seb128> carlos: add new strings ? gnome-panel ?
[02:26] <carlos> seb128: only gnome-panel?
[02:26] <carlos> seb128: does it uses cdbs?
[02:26] <seb128> probably yes
[02:26] <seb128> yes, cdbs
[02:26] <carlos> ok, thanks
[02:26] <seb128> np
[02:30] <fabbione> ChrisH: if you like to maintain packages you can do that
[02:30] <fabbione> ChrisH: it's all up to you
[02:33] <mojo> hi all ppl
[02:33] <mojo> does anyone here encounter a problem with wheeling mouse scroll on Ubuntu Bugzilla?
[02:34] <fabbione> mojo: yes
[02:34] <ChrisH> fabbione: I'm just used to just maintain packages. Everything else needed discussions on mailing lists I rather not read to keep my blood-pressure low. So "freedom of choice" for developers/contributors/maintainers is a new concept to me. :)
[02:34] <mojo> You can wheel scroll for around 10 lines then I stuck
[02:34] <ross> mojo: if the cursor is over a text area it will scroll that instead
[02:34] <fabbione> ross: it does indipendently from where you scroll
[02:34] <fabbione> i did check several combination
[02:34] <mojo> yeah
[02:35] <mojo> I think it's a bug of Ubuntu Bugzilla
[02:35] <ross> interesting, not seen that
[02:35] <mojo> I tried to test with other website
[02:35] <mojo> it only happens with Ubuntu Bugzilla
[02:36] <seb128> yes, I've this problem too
[02:36] <fabbione> ChrisH: well.. some topics will have to be discussed here too :-)
[02:37] <thom> mojo: it's a firefox bug
[02:37] <thom> mojo: and it's already filed
[02:37] <thom> both upstream and in ubuntu
[02:37] <fabbione> thom: also in mozilla
[02:37] <thom> fabbione: same odds
[02:37] <fabbione> :-)
[02:37] <daniels> thom: have you fixed it yet? :)
[02:40] <thom> daniels: nope
[02:51] <seb128> thom: I need a "firefox-gtkmozembed" to build epiphany with firefox, where do you hide this file ?
[02:51] <seb128> thom: same for firefox-xpcom
[02:51] <daniels> thom: Package: mozilla-firefox Subject: have to restart it when you upgrade it Severity: blocker Assignee: thom@canonical.com
[02:52] <seb128> thoooooom
[02:52] <thom> seb128: looking
[02:52] <daniels> seb128: (i think we broke our tourguide)
[02:52] <thom> guess they're not installed
[02:52] <thom> daniels: bite me
[02:53] <seb128> thom: we need a mozilla-firefox-dev
[02:59] <thom> seb128: yeah
[02:59] <thom> looking at how much work this will be
[02:59] <seb128> thom: do you need a bugzilla entry as a reminder ?
[02:59] <thom> seb128: please
[03:01] <Mithrandir> I dreamt up an idea for transitioning to dependency-based init tonight
[03:02] <Mithrandir> what we know today is that the ordering is correct, so we know that services starting at step 20 might need anything loaded before.
[03:02] <Mithrandir> so we already have a worst-case ordering-graph today.
[03:02] <daniels> bear in mind gdm will be moving today or tomorrow
[03:02] <daniels> just to throw you all into confusion
[03:03] <Mithrandir> a service could then add some meta information about what other services it needs to have running, and there wouldn't be any need for a full transition.
[03:03] <Mithrandir> legacy applications would still use the ordering system, and everybody would be happy.
[03:03] <seb128> thom: done
[03:03] <fabbione> 700 upgraded, 33 newly installed, 7 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[03:03] <fabbione> Need to get 0B/492MB of archives.
[03:03] <fabbione> After unpacking 59.2MB of additional disk space will be used.
[03:04] <thom> seb128: danke
[03:04] <fabbione> warty to hoary+x.org
[03:04] <seb128> np
[03:08] <bob2> hm, last I tried gnome-devel wasn't installable in hoary
[03:09] <lamont> bob2: I think that's the gnutls 10->11 transition thang
[03:09] <seb128> it works here 
[03:09] <bob2> lamont: hm, generally, if something in hoary is uninstallable, it's a bug, right?
[03:10] <seb128> bob2: which part is blocking ?
[03:10] <bob2> seb128: maybe ppc is lagging?
[03:10] <bob2> hrm, one sec, I'll check
[03:10] <seb128> perhaps
[03:10] <seb128> need more details to be sure
[03:10] <lamont> bob2: generally speaking, hoary should be installable (or it's a bug), although many things are transient...
[03:10] <lamont> so you might try a second time an hour or so later before filing the bug.
[03:11] <bob2> lamont: ok, will do
[03:11] <seb128> just paste the error here to start
[03:11] <bob2> gnome-devel because of gnome-core-devel because of libxslt1-dev
[03:11] <bob2> I'm using aptitude
[03:12] <seb128> dpkg -l libxslt1-dev ?
[03:12] <bob2> ii  libxslt1-dev   1.1.7-1ubuntu2 XSLT processing library - development kit
[03:12] <bob2> all this is installed, it's just blocking the upgrade to hoary
[03:12] <seb128> what happens if you try to upgrade it ?
[03:13] <bob2>   libxslt1-dev: Depends: libgcrypt11-dev but it is not going to be installed
[03:13] <bob2> ah, so what lamont said
[03:13] <seb128> and if you install libgcrypt11-dev
[03:14] <sivang> I was wondering, what is going on with the new maintainer process? anybody?
[03:14] <bob2> seb128: it will install, but wants to remove a ton of gnome -dev package
[03:14] <seb128> libgnomevfs2-dev ?
[03:14] <bob2> that is one of them, yes
[03:15] <seb128> ok, so that's the major problem
[03:15] <seb128> looking why my new package uploaded 2 days ago doesn't fix that
[03:16] <seb128> weird
[03:16] <seb128> 2.8.3-0ubuntu2 has built and depends on gnutls11
[03:16] <seb128> it should not try removing it ...
[03:17] <bob2> I haven't update'd today
[03:17] <sivang> Was interested to know if the MaintainersCandidate page is worth for anything :)
[03:17] <bob2> oh well, lifeless is asleep, he won't notice me using his bandwidth
[03:18] <bob2> hm, no, after an update, libxslt1-dev is still unupgradable
[03:18] <mojo> bob2: have u played around with the image resize in trash applet??
[03:19] <bob2> mojo: I've only ever used the trash applet once, and that's only because I noticed a weird new icon on the panel ;)
[03:20] <mojo> hehe, new service config tool is added to system setting menu, nice
[03:23] <mojo> darn, can someone check the Boot's Help in System Config? It doesnt fire up help browser
[03:23] <lamont> seb128: you know gcalctool is ftbfs,yes?
[03:23] <seb128> no
[03:23] <seb128> I'll look on it, thanks
[03:23] <lamont> checking for yywrap in -ll... no
[03:23] <lamont> configure: error: flex is required to create the gcalctool scanners
[03:23] <lamont> missing build-dep flex
[03:24] <daniels> heh.  i set up the buildd here for the full archive rebuild, and seeded the Sources list with stuff from hoary
[03:24] <seb128> lamont: ok, thanks
[03:24] <daniels> went about putting xorg into there before I realised that I actually had the buildd *working*; it had already done db3 and was part of the way through glibc before I killed it
[03:24] <lamont> seb128: and libgnome is FTBFS: conflicting build-deps (10->11 thang)
[03:24] <daniels> intltool-debian m4 gettext file html2text texi2html gettext-base debhelper debconf-utils po-debconf libmagic1 libbz2-1.0 bzip2 gawk texinfo autoconf
[03:24] <daniels> (sorry)
[03:25] <Mithrandir> anybody have any experience with DVI KVM switches (which ones are good, for instance?)
[03:25] <mojo> stupid bug buddy doesnt compile with cpp3.4, can someone help?
[03:26] <seb128> lamont: the libgnome one is probably fixed with the new libgnomevfs ... any change to retry the build ?
[03:26] <lamont> sure
[03:27] <seb128> thanks
[03:27] <lamont> checking for gtk+-2.0 libgnomeui-2.0 libglade-2.0 dbus-glib-1... Package
[03:27] <lamont> +dbus-glib-1 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[03:27] <lamont> upgrade notifier,eeven
[03:30] <lamont> doko?
[03:30] <daniels> someone's missing a b-d
[03:31] <lamont> doko: 3.4.2-2ubuntu1 ICE at people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ghdl/0.14-2/ghdl_0.14-2_20041101-1427-amd64-failed 
[03:31] <mojo> lamont: do u know the bug with initscript about 'not found ext3 on specfic hdd'? final 4.10 fixed it but then now it appears, it'd be the problem of the merging system?
[03:32] <lamont> mojo: new upstream and a merge there...
[03:32] <mojo> bug #2100
[03:32] <lamont> if you're up to it, you might see if the debian package also fails.
[03:32] <bob2> daniels: is xorg's build system any less shit yet?
[03:33] <fabbione> bob2: no
[03:33] <daniels> bob2: HA HA
[03:33] <daniels> no.
[03:33] <fabbione> it builds more
[03:34] <daniels> the modular build system is a lot more rad
[03:34] <bob2> lordy
[03:35] <mojo> darn, hopes all mates working hard to migrate all cpp3.3 compiled programs to cpp3.4 so I can get rid of cpp3.3 on my system
[03:37] <lamont> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libxpcom.so not recognized
[03:37] <Mithrandir> lamont: any reason not to, really?
[03:37] <lamont> lets all kick firefox about.
[03:37] <lamont> Mithrandir: dunno
[03:37] <lamont> hence the wondering
[03:37] <lamont> how much more stuff did they decide to turn from warnings into errors, and how much stuff does that break?
[03:37] <daniels> lamont: ehm, you don't need to worry about that, IIRC it's a module
[03:38] <mojo> lamont: I find it weird to hack the firefox about, just leave it as original is better
[03:38] <bob2> Mithrandir: abi change before debian does it?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> lamont: amd64 has a gcc-3.4-archive
[03:38] <lamont> daniels: the segv from dpkg-shlibdeps shortly thereafter, OTOH, I do...
[03:38] <Mithrandir> bob2: you can change without bumping the ABI, AIUI.
[03:39] <daniels> lamont: ... wow
[03:39] <mojo> fabbione: dude, have u up X.org yet? I want to get hand on it 2
[03:39] <bob2> Mithrandir: oooh
[03:39] <daniels> mojo: it's not up, still highly experimental, but rest assured we will announce it widely when it is
[03:40] <Mithrandir> bob2: else, we'll have to hire neuro so we can get him to fix the autobuilder problems for Debian so sarge can release so we can move to gcc-3.4 for both Debian and Ubuntu. :)
[03:40] <mojo> daniels: hope new X.org won't break whole my system which is the only thing I get to IRC here
[03:40] <bob2> Mithrandir: hahaha
[03:41] <mojo> bob2: yeah, a pure gcc3.4 for Hoary must be so nice] 
[03:41] <fabbione> mojo: that's the reason why it's not up yet
[03:41] <fabbione> mojo: so be patience liike all the others
[03:41] <lamont> daniels: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/syslinux/2.11-0.1ubuntu1/syslinux_2.11-0.1ubuntu1_20041102-1708-amd64-failed
[03:42] <fabbione> mojo: nobody will get anything until it is considered good enough for public
[03:42] <lamont> and why 0.1ubuntu1 instead of 0ubuntu1?
[03:42] <fabbione> also
[03:42] <fabbione> X.org is slower than Xfree86
[03:42] <seb128> because debian version was 0.1 ?
[03:42] <fabbione> so i don't really see the point in all this rush
[03:42] <lamont> seb128: that would be a good reason, yes.
[03:42] <mojo> fabbione: heh? slower?? how come?? u mean u not optimize it for Ubuntu rite?
[03:43] <lamont> make[4] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/zsh-4.2.1/obj/Src/Modules'
[03:43] <lamont> Makefile:406: cap.rules: No such file or directory
[03:43] <lamont> Makefile:1327: pcre.rules: No such file or directory
[03:43] <lamont> bummer
[03:43] <seb128> fabbione: people don't rush for the speed but for the new extensions
[03:43] <mojo> fabbione: with FC3, X.org rocks faster than Xfree86
[03:43] <seb128> lamont: libgnome built fine this time, thanks :)
[03:44] <fabbione> seb128: the new extensions make it slower :-))
[03:44] <lamont> :-)
[03:44] <daniels> mojo: no, this is optimised for Ubuntu also
[03:44] <mojo> daniels: alright then, I wait
[03:44] <fabbione> mojo: please provide either detailed numbers of your arguments or please avoiid certain topics in here
[03:44] <lamont> seb128: gnome-media, OTOH....
[03:44] <fabbione> mojo:
[03:44] <lamont> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `libnautilus-burn.pc'
[03:44] <lamont> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
[03:44] <seb128> outch
[03:45] <seb128> totally forgotten this
[03:45] <fabbione> i don't like this kind of arguments without proper information
[03:45] <lamont> fabbione: it's frequently a subjective "faster" for many such comparisons...
[03:45] <daniels> lamont: i'd need to dredge out the logs for 2.04 -- the warty version
[03:45] <mojo> fabbione: alright then, I will do some benchmark, I could post it to OSnews, probably
[03:45] <lamont> hence the need for ABX bakeoffs sometimes.
[03:46] <daniels> lamont: any chance of that happening?
[03:46] <fabbione> lamont: i know.. that's why i am asking for numbers :-)
[03:46] <daniels> mojo: osnews?
[03:46] <lamont> daniels: they can be had, yes.
[03:46] <mojo> fabbione: don't u know OSnews.com??
[03:46] <fabbione> mojo: yes i know OSnews, but why you ask me if i know it?
[03:47] <mojo> fabbione: u misunderstand me, I say I probably write an aritcle on comparing X.org and Xfree86 and maybe post it up to OSnews.com, so I can prove it to u that X.org runs faster
[03:47] <daniels> thanks uncle lamont :)
[03:47] <daniels> mojo: um, what numbers will you use to prove it?
[03:47] <fabbione> mojo: i understood perfectly...
[03:47] <daniels> mojo: at this point, 'faster' is almost entirely subjective
[03:47] <Mithrandir> mojo: please, could you use "you" instead of "u" and so on? :)
[03:48] <fabbione> mojo: i would like to see these numbers too
[03:48] <daniels> (and it's almost impossible to measure it, because fb writes, which you'd need to do, likely, are AMAZINGLY slow)
[03:48] <mojo> fabbione: ofcourse I will do testing on game like UT2k4, running some render, doing dual monitor test, remote acess, misc
[03:48] <daniels> that is not a good benchmark.
[03:49] <daniels> how many fps you get in ut2k4 has absolutely nothing to do with interactive performance
[03:49] <daniels> at which point it's actually about latency rather than throughput (hence why x11perf is useless unless you're hacking the fb layer to optimise it or somesuch)
[03:49] <mojo> ...
[03:49] <mojo> maybe ..
[03:49] <daniels> trust me
[03:49] <daniels> the 2D and 3D subsystems are completely different
[03:50] <daniels> fabio was reporting slower based on the fact that the 2D stuff appeared to be far more latent in X.Org than XFree86
[03:50] <daniels> which is almost impossible to measure, and has nothing to do with throughput/how fast your 3D core can deal with complicated textures/etc
[03:50] <mojo> oopss, maybe I was wrong, I'm not in X.org upstream so I can't argue much against u
[03:50] <fabbione> but the 2D performance different is pretty clear and visible
[03:50] <mojo> ic
[03:51] <Mithrandir> fabbione: but we want transparent windows! :)
[03:51] <daniels> Mithrandir: do you also want a reasonably responsive desktop? :P
[03:51] <mojo> isn't there hacked Sawfish to do it?
[03:51] <lamont> daniels: .../s/syslinux/2.04-2ubuntu1/syslinux_2.04-2ubuntu1_20040818-0236-amd64-successful
[03:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: u c'n mov' u'r ass here in dk a'd gimme l337 p4tch35
[03:51] <daniels> mojo: not properly
[03:51] <daniels> lamont: thanks uncle
[03:52] <Mithrandir> daniels: responsiveness is overrated, I want transparent clocks! :P
[03:52] <daniels> Mithrandir: KAN FAB HV DA PCHS PLZ KTHXBYE
[03:52] <mojo> me too, new transparent X.org clock is nice stuff
[03:52] <fabbione> AHAH
[03:53] <daniels> Mithrandir: kn fb hv da pchs plz kthxby
[03:53] <mojo> seems to me daniels write srilankan
[03:53] <daniels> ('can fabbione have the patches please kthxbye')
[03:53] <mojo> lol
[03:53] <bob2> fabbione: don't let daniels on IRC when he's been drinking, please
[03:53] <Mithrandir> yeah, yeah, I'll patch fabbione in Spain.  Patch him with beer and wine.
[03:53] <daniels> bob2: heh
[03:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ahahaha
[03:54] <fabbione> bob2: he only had a cup of coffee.. probably too
[03:54] <bob2> yeah, I've heard all about that "Danish coffee"
[03:54] <daniels> heh
[03:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you know, somebody could be crazy enough to send them to you.
[03:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i would love that... but i don't think they will find my size :-)
[03:56] <lamont> fabbione: they're not _that_ hard to find...
[03:56] <mojo> fabbione: I do, I got one here, Wolfverine uniform with new redesigned X sign
[03:56] <fabbione> lamont: i don't want the moon :-)
[03:56] <Mithrandir> fabbione: my gf knows how to thread a needle.. ;)
[03:57] <fabbione> :P
[03:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ahaha
[03:57] <Mithrandir> she might be coming to spain, a bit depending on money
[03:57] <fabbione> i need to teach that to my gf.. see. i am better than her with needle ;)
[03:58] <fabbione> today she learned the first command: "female: coffee!"
[03:58] <fabbione> it took only 20 minutes to get it tho
[03:58] <fabbione> and without too much complain
[03:58] <Mithrandir> ooh, you're starting well, then.
[03:58] <fabbione> only a few flying fingers
[03:58] <daniels> it was good coffee, too
[03:58] <daniels> better than fabbione's stuff ... these italians don't know how to make coffee, it seems :P
[03:58] <fabbione> (middle) fingers ;)
[03:58] <bob2> haha
[03:59] <bob2> you guys remind me entirely too much of cheech and chong for some reason
[04:00] <mojo> bob2: isn't it weird that gaim 1.02 has not up yet (since 1.02 been released for weeks)
[04:01] <lamont> net/gaim_1:1.0.2-1ubuntu1: Building by buildd+macaroni [optional:out-of-date] 
[04:01] <lamont> hrm.
[04:01] <bob2> it's in sid on all arches at least
[04:01] <lamont> may build this time
[04:01] <mojo> k
[04:05] <Mithrandir> daniels: uhm, you kinda need to bump the version number.
[04:05] <daniels> Mithrandir: i will when I upload, yah
[04:09] <carlos> seb128: a dist-upgrade in hoary asks me to remove trashapplet, is that correct?
[04:10] <seb128> carlos: yes, it has been merged in gnome-applet 2.9
[04:10] <Mithrandir> daniels: it doesn't work, don't pass CFLAGS
[04:10] <Mithrandir> daniels: and don't pass LDFLAGS
[04:11] <Mithrandir> daniels: just the _ARCHDEP flags, then it should build fine.
[04:11] <Mithrandir> I can test it once you've fixed that.
[04:12] <carlos> seb128: ok, I thought that but I don't see it in the Replaces or Conflicts from gnome-applets so I was not sure
[04:12] <carlos> thanks
[04:12] <seb128> ?
[04:12] <seb128> carlos: 
[04:12] <seb128> Replaces: gnome-panel-data (<= 2.2.2.2-2), trashapplet
[04:12] <seb128> Provides: trashapplet
[04:13] <seb128> carlos: which version of gnome-applets do you have ?
[04:14] <daniels> Mithrandir: try ubuntu2, same place
[04:14] <carlos> seb128: yes, is there, just ignore me I'm a blind person...
[04:14] <carlos> sight
[04:14] <seb128> :p
[04:15] <Mithrandir> daniels: it looks good, I'll test-compile it as well.
[04:15] <daniels> Mithrandir: phat, thanks
[04:15] <seb128> carlos: should I bring you some glasses for the conf ? :)
[04:16] <carlos> seb128: I think so :-)
[04:16] <carlos> perhaps it's better a new brain
[04:16] <carlos> so I could implement SMP so I work better :-)
[04:16] <seb128> ah ah
[04:16] <mojo> hey
[04:16] <mojo> new theme for FireFox
[04:17] <mojo> Ubuntu should have this
[04:17] <mojo> http://gnomefx.mozdev.org/screenshots.html
[04:20] <carlos> is the november calendar out?
[04:20] <seb128> carlos: for some days yes
[04:20] <carlos> seb128: but it's not in hoary, right?
[04:21] <carlos> because I don't see it O:-)
[04:21] <mojo> carlos: I do see it, check it again!
[04:23] <carlos> my ubuntu-calendar only has a dependency on october one
[04:23] <carlos> and dist-upgrade does not shows me anything about ubuntu-calendar
[04:23] <carlos> anything pending
[04:24] <carlos> carlos@frodo /tmp/rosetta $ apt-cache search ubuntu-calendar
[04:24] <carlos> ubuntu-calendar - The Ubuntu Calendar features monthly updated artwork and themes
[04:24] <carlos> ubuntu-calendar-october - Ubuntu calendar artwork for October
[04:24] <carlos> nothing more
[04:24] <Mithrandir> daniels: builds fine on amd64 at least.
[04:26] <mojo> carlos: it's a bacground, check /usr/share/backgrounds
[04:26] <seb128> carlos:  ubuntu-calendar-november (4.11) warty-updates; urgency=low
[04:26] <carlos> seb128: I'm talking about hoary
 is the november calendar out?
[04:26] <seb128> you were asking that :p
[04:27] <seb128> dunno why it's not in hoary though
[04:27] <carlos> mojo: the package is not installed so it's not there, but thanks
[04:27] <seb128> that's a question for jdub :)
 seb128: but it's not in hoary, right?
[04:27] <seb128> yeah, right, sorry
[04:27] <carlos> :-)
[04:28] <carlos> seb128: no problem, I will ask jdub when wakes up
[04:31] <lamont> Mithrandir: that's daniels' new syslinux?
[04:31] <Mithrandir> lamont: ack
[04:31] <lamont> cool
[04:31] <lamont> daniels: may as well upload, eh?
[04:31] <Mithrandir> as I'm at the uni, I haven't tested it.
[04:32] <lamont> Mithrandir: ah, there is that...
[04:34] <T-Bone> mdz ping?
[04:34] <mojo> it's 6am here, I need to get some rest,
[04:34] <mojo> so long ppl
[04:34] <mojo> nice dream!
[04:34] <pitti> g'night mojo
[04:34] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: he's probably be up in about 1.5-2 hours.
[04:34] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ok thx
[04:35] <Mithrandir> lamont: breaking amd64 install cds now wouldn't be too bad, and that's the only place it's used on amd64.
[04:35] <daniels> rad
[04:35] <daniels> lamont: yeah, will do, ta
[05:14] <mdz> T-Gone: pong
[05:35] <lamont> morning mdz
[05:43] <lamont> mdz: re 2113... I guess that one starts with a seed change request to move the needed package into supported?
[05:50] <lamont> which is already tehre.
[06:04] <lamont> since when do -dev symlinks get delivered in /lib and not /usr/lib???
[06:05] <lamont> elmo: please sync libselinux_1.16-8
[06:08] <T-Bone> mdz: ping again? :)
[06:12] <lamont> T-Bone: he sent mail about 30 minutes ago that he'd be offline for about 2 hurs
[06:12] <lamont> hours, even
[06:13] <T-Bone> damn
[06:29] <mojo> I'm back, wake up b'c can't sleep
[06:31] <mojo> gaim 1.02 is up
[06:31] <mojo> thx god
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> OK
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> Ubuntu Warty 4.10, i386, in the installer, custom install, fdisk sees my partitions, the partitioner in the installer sees my partitions, the kernel has no devices in /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/ aside from disc and part1 (there are 9 partitions)
[07:01] <bluefoxicy> and using mknod to make a device to access various partitions just gets me devices that the kernel says aren't there when i try to read from them.
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> what's the problemL
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> Anyone know about partitioning problems?
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> i.e. kernel can't figure out htf to read the partition table, even though fdisk and the partitioner in the installer can read it just fine, and 2 other OSes (Debian Sarge and GEntoo) boot fine
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> Normal install, expert install, custom install, and custom-expert on http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-release-install-i386.iso all terminally broken?
[08:18] <T-Bone> mdz: ping?
[08:48] <mvo_> has anyone actually tried to use dpkg --status-fd with apt?
[09:00] <T-Bone> mako: ping?
[09:19] <daniels> fabbione: xorg-common maintainer script is broken, looks like it doesn't work from a fresh install
[09:19] <daniels> Setting up xorg-common (6.8.1-0.0) ...
[09:19] <daniels> mv: when moving multiple files, last argument must be a directory
[09:19] <daniels> Try `mv --help' for more information.
[09:19] <daniels> dpkg: error processing xorg-common (--configure):
[09:19] <daniels>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[09:19] <daniels> fabbione: if you want to reproduce, su to me on trider-g7 and run sbuild -A -d hoary -v xorg-driver-synaptics_0.13.6-0ubuntu1
[09:19] <daniels> fabbione: so obviously we can't go much further, and I'm in an internet cafe in a part of town where all there are is sex shops and topless bars
[09:19] <daniels> so I think I'm going to head back to the hotel and crash, heh
[09:20] <daniels> fabbione: (the street behind vesterbrogade -- iskengade or such)
[09:20] <daniels> fabbione: but yeah, we can't build anything until the xorg-common maintainer script is fixed.  i'll take a look at it when I get back to my room.
[09:20] <daniels> mdz: fwiw, I did the php4 merge earlier, despite fooish being down.
[09:23] <mako> T-Bone: hey there
[09:23] <mako> T-Bone: whats up?
[10:26] <mdz> mako: did you get to that summary?
[10:26] <mdz> mvo_: no, not to my knowledge. what are you thinking about?
[10:27] <mvo_> mdz: I was thinking about a way to hide the dpkg output from the normal user
[10:27] <mvo_> the --status-fd seemed like a option, but I suspect that apt closes all filedescriptiors when it forks of dpkg
[10:28] <mdz> hm, yes, it would
[10:28] <mdz> except stdin/stdout/stderr
[10:28] <mvo_> ok, so this is not a option. I actually liked the idea :/
[10:29] <mvo_> btw, how long does it usually take for a new package to enter the archive?
[10:29] <mdz> mvo_: a NEW package, or just a new version?
[10:29] <mvo_> a NEW package :)
[10:30] <mdz> mvo_: that time is measured in elmo units :-)
[10:30] <mvo_> ohhhh :P
[10:31] <mdz> mvo_: upgrade-notifier?
[10:31] <mvo_> the advantage of the the --status-fd would be that it is available now and could be easily extended to provide additonal information (like unpack-progress). but reading ExecFork() I noticed that it will close all FDs
[10:31] <mvo_> mdz: yes
[10:32] <elmo> eh, I did upgrade-notifier within minutes
[10:33] <elmo> it just didn't build :P
[10:33] <mvo_> hehe 
[10:34] <amu> btw. mvo_ welcome ;) 
[10:34] <mvo_> amu: thanks!
[10:34] <mvo_> elmo: where can I check the build log?
[10:35] <mvo_> oh, I think I spotted the problem already with the build-depends (stupid me)
[10:35] <elmo> mvo: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont somewhere
[10:36] <mvo_> elmo: thanks!
[10:44] <mvo_> ping lamont 
[10:58] <lupus_> can someone fix the gftp package in hoary? :) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157288
[10:58] <lupus_> it is easy to fix
[10:59] <seb128> lupus_: ok, I'll do it now
[10:59] <lupus_> k thx
[11:10] <lamont> mvo_: yo
[11:10] <lupus_> I seem to have 2 files hwclock.sh and hwclockfirst.sh
[11:10] <lupus_> is this normal?
[11:11] <mvo_> lamont: where can I view the buildd logs?
[11:11] <lamont> people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/...
[11:11] <lamont> lupus_: yes
[11:12] <lupus_> lupus@lupus /etc/init.d $ sudo ./hwclock.sh stop
[11:12] <lupus_> ./hwclock.sh: line 118: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[11:12] <lupus_> ./hwclock.sh: line 118: `               log_success_msg "       start sets kernel (system) clock from hardware (RTC) clock" >&2'
[11:13] <lupus_> hoary release
[11:13] <lamont> lupus_: already fixed.
[11:13] <lamont> 2.12h-2ubuntu2 or later
[11:13] <lupus_> weird I have updated to latest
[11:13] <lamont> dpkg -l util-linux
[11:14] <lupus_> still get this error
[11:14] <lupus_> 2.12h-2ubuntu1
[11:14] <lamont> lupus_: bug present in that version
[11:15] <mdz> thom: what's the latest on firefox?
[11:16] <lupus_> hmm k seems to be my mistake sorry :)
[11:16] <lamont> mjg59: you around?
[11:21] <mdz> thom: people are starting to notice that the Ubuntu-specific patches are missing :-)
[11:38] <mjg59> lamont: Hi
[11:52] <mjg59> http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/4118 - OpenBSD have a Free implementation of the Atheros HAL. Someone ought to look into mating that with the Madwifi driver.
[11:52] <jdub> ooh
[11:54] <mjg59> It's not fully-featured yet, but it's the sort of thing that should be encouraged
[11:54] <jdub> mjg59: worth a bug
[11:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: <mjg59> http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/4118 - OpenBSD have a Free implementation of the Atheros HAL. Someone ought to look into mating that with the Madwifi driver.
[11:55] <Keybuk> is that even legal?
[11:55] <mdz> mjg59: neat. reverse-engineered?
[11:55] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[11:55] <Keybuk> the only reason the Atheros HAL is closed-source is the FCC are evil
[11:56] <mjg59> Producing an open implementation of stuff isn't illegal
[11:56] <mjg59> Shipping it in the US might be...