=== rabidbt [~rabidbt@66.45.74.16] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [doko@dsl-082-082-066-197.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-70.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-70.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sparkes_x [~sparkes@host217-42-166-29.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:37] won't be here for start of doc meeting [12:37] I am logging [12:37] afk bbl [12:42] sparkes_x : why x ? :) === sparkes [sparkes@linuxops.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:43] is this better? [12:43] lot's of lag on my other client this direct one seems best today [12:43] bbl really late now ;-) [12:45] how late is it for you? [12:46] it's almost midday ;-) but I have to be elsewhere for the next hour or so === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:02] darn. [01:02] had to crash x, [01:02] tried to use nvtv to attend meeting through TV === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sivang] : Documentation Team Meeting, 2004-11-04 13:00UTC [01:04] does anybody knows of other people who might be on their way to attend this? [01:06] hmm, not much of reaction..is there anybody here alive? === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:08] each person who's alive here, please say "beep" :) [01:09] ok, let's try and start - see how long can I talk to myself :) === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sivang] : Documentation Team Meeting, 2004-11-04 13:00UTC, agenda at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sivang] : Documentation Team Meeting, 2004-11-04 13:00UTC, agenda at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting | Seems everybody asleep here or out, I'll be ideling here a bit - msg me (sivang) if you got here and interested in doc issues. === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sivang] : Documentation Team Meeting, 2004-11-04 13:00UTC, agenda at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting | Seems everybody asleep here or out, I'll be ideling here a bit - msg me (sivang) if you got here and interested in doc issues | as soon as enough people arrive, we'll start === hornbeck is here === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sivang] : Documentation Team Meeting, 2004-11-04 13:00UTC, agenda at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === sivang [~dannyh@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === asw is here [01:50] yo asw! [01:50] :) [01:50] whassup? [01:50] not too much. I'd like to see if I can make the community meeting in Barcelona. Anybody else from the Doc team going to be there? [01:52] I would love to be there, not sure if I could manage to though. [01:54] hey no talking [01:54] I seem to have taken the unlikely role of Free Software zealot in the group but I do find it slightly grating that we don't uniformly follow the Debian/FSF policy of referring to this O/S as either "Ubuntu" full-stop or "Ubuntu GNU/Linux". I have the irrational desire to go and change every URL that has http://www.ubuntulinux.org to be http://www.ubuntu.com [01:54] :-) [01:55] alot of the url's don't seems to work with just www.ubuntu.com === asw reads meeting agenda [01:56] ubuntulinux.org was an unfortunate consequence of domain handling politics === ChrisH [~chaas@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:56] apart from the domain, I believe that we consistently refer to ourselves as simply "Ubuntu". If you find exceptions, please correct them. [01:57] hornbeck: can you give an example? Re. broken ubuntu.com links? There should be a standard procedure for filing doc/wiki bugreports (if there isn't already.) [01:57] Kamion : we can make some clarification so to note our gratitude to GNU , what do you think? [01:58] asw: I have not tried them in awhile but for the longest alot of the wiki pages did not work [01:58] Kamion: I had been told the same thing by Mako. I'm perfectly happy with the idea of the "Ubuntu O/S" full stop. === sivang hails for Ubuntu GNU/Linux [02:00] we standardised on simply "Ubuntu" to avoid the whole debate. [02:01] ok, that's fine altogether. In docs and referneces we can just say "Ubuntu is a Debian GNU/Linux system, ..." for the record [02:01] it's not [02:01] it's not ? [02:01] it's a derivative of Debian GNU/Linux; it's not a Debian GNU/Linux system [02:02] nice beagle pics up the mozilla extentions now [02:02] oops, yes I menat a based [02:02] in particular, hornbeck's proposed book should either be "Learning the Ubuntu Operating System" or "Learning Ubuntu GNU/Linux" but -not- "Learning Ubuntu Linux" as it is currently called. I don't want to tell other people what to name their work, so, I find the whole thing very awkward. Kamion: yes standardize on Ubuntu (operating sytem) full-stop. Does that sound good to everybody else? [02:03] asw : it pretty good to me. [02:03] anyways, [02:03] shall we start? [02:03] Has everybody glanced at the agenda? [02:03] is sparkes here? [02:03] hmm good point [02:03] let's see [02:04] if no one objects, I don't mind waiting 10 more minutes before we start..:) so maybe every interested party would get the chance === George^Deka [~George_De@046.a.009.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:05] hi all [02:05] hello [02:05] hi [02:05] yes sivang I think we need to wait a few for people strolling in [02:06] yes I see now === lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === plovs_work [~plovs@195.13.248.82] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:07] hey plovs! [02:07] plovs!!!!!! [02:07] you know its amazing how in a chat you act so excited about seeing another grown man [02:07] hmmm [02:08] lets retract a couple of the !!! from that [02:08] hi lulu, good to see you here :) [02:08] Hi all! Great to see such a turnout - sorry I'm late - been working with plovs [02:09] hi guys! [02:09] no it's ok, we're still waiting a bunch for people strolling in... [02:09] I think we are pretty good now [02:10] sivang: is it a standup meeting? I may be a bit behind on email - do we have an agenda and a time limit? [02:10] lulu : I've yet to think of a time limit, but the agenda is linked from the topic [02:10] my time-limit 45 minutes, i have a meeting afterwards [02:10] ahh - there it is - thanks :o) [02:11] I work in about a hour === asw has to leave in an hour also... [02:11] who makes a backup of this whole thing and sends it to enrico? [02:11] i can do that gladly. [02:12] asw:thank you! === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:12] sivang: want to start [02:12] so, shall we go from top to bottom then on the http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting ? [02:12] yo enrico my man! === enrico managed to participate [02:13] Hello all! [02:13] thank you enrico for managin this, [02:13] the man himself! [02:13] hey enrico! will you chair the meeting then? === sivang nods [02:13] enrico : ? [02:13] lulu: I can do it, not sure for how much, but I'm confident I can spend at least an hour here [02:14] I'm loading galeon and getting to the docmeeteing page [02:14] enrico: seems that others have to go in an hour too. hornbeck, plovs... [02:14] galeon??? [02:14] sivang: a web browser [02:14] it's oldie , isn't it? [02:15] yes [02:15] that's why the ??? [02:15] :) [02:15] guys....... :o) shall we begin!? [02:15] Let's begin! [02:15] yes! [02:15] Who's there? [02:16] * Enrico [02:16] * Sivan [02:16] * asw [02:16] * hornbeck [02:16] * lulu [02:16] * ChrisH [02:16] * George^Deka [02:16] we have several new people here, I would like them to shortly introduce themselves === plovs_work as well === sivang notes that the meeting seems to go right as planned :) === enrico looks at the agenda, it's huge! [02:17] Let's begin from the beginning: state of the documentation team [02:17] who's who and who does what [02:18] can I start? === enrico salutes all the new members [02:18] hornbeck: sure, please [02:18] ok [02:19] I am setting up a svn server for the doc team [02:19] it will be active the beginning of next week and be hosted out of my home [02:19] I have not done much doc work because I have been learning how to set this all up :-) [02:20] I will be giving ssh accounts to certain doc members so if you would like to be on the list please contact me [02:20] hornbeck svn? [02:20] asw: subversion [02:20] hornbeck: Rationale for setup? [02:21] lulu: Ubuntu dev's would not give us room to work on large files === sparkes_x is back [02:21] so I bought a bigger line into the house and some static ip's [02:21] how far down the agenda are we? [02:21] not started [02:21] :) [02:21] sparkes just started [02:21] asw: a version control system like CVS and Arch (if you ignore the authors of cvs, svn and arch telling you that they're all so extremely and fundamentally different ;) [02:21] you didn't miss a thing [02:21] :) [02:21] cool [02:21] um. I, personally, use GNU Arch. Canonical is also investing heavily in Arch (see Bazar). [02:21] if we do not like svn, we can try something else [02:22] hornbeck: i.e. working on books? who did you ask? === ChrisH loves svn [02:22] lulu: mdz [02:22] I love svn but arch sounds, errrm interesting [02:22] lulu: mdz === plovs_work looks amazed at all the amart people [02:22] ok - right..... [02:22] I think we might altogether switch to Bazzar, might also help canonical in testing and patches [02:22] See http://www.canonical.com/projects/ [02:22] sivang: that is what I'd like to suggest - Robert Collins would help you hornbeck [02:23] is that what everyone wants? [02:23] to use arch and bazar when it is ready? [02:23] plus it would make merging the repo into canonical, once this is approved by upranks [02:23] RCollins help hornbeck with what? === sparkes_x still catching up [02:23] sivang, agreed [02:23] sparkes_x: getting bazaar set up [02:24] lulu: I was with the understanding that arch required more than one webserver [02:24] lulu, ta, makes sence now [02:24] can we continue with agenda, and discuss technicalities at the end maybe? [02:24] sivang: I agree [02:25] hornbeck: ok - shall we say - Action point - contact Rob Collins re: requirements and present pros and cons of options to the team?? [02:25] Let's compress this in Hornbeck is working on setting up a VCS for the docteam to use for larger documents [02:25] enrico: yes [02:25] Enrico is happy to help hornbeck [02:25] Let have some more team memebers tell whay they are up into currently, so to finish status item :) [02:26] I can talk about me [02:26] ok, as we have several new people here that would be good they know who you are :) go ahead [02:26] I'm currently half-available, in Brasil for a conference [02:26] lulu, hornbeck: I'm setting up Arch for my own project, please, use me as a resource as well. [02:27] I've been appointed at the documentation team secretary and I'm now working on setting up my position on this and to learn how to interact with Canonical [02:27] enrico is going to be the person to complain too :) [02:27] to [02:28] In the EnricoZini wiki page you can find a list of advertised services from the secretary :) [02:28] ok, I'll go next ? [02:28] I think that's it. Questions welcome anytime [02:29] i have been cleaning up the wiki, adding some icons and looking at the FrontPage === sparkes_x needs to talk about icons later don't let me forget === lulu Lulu is responsible for the Canonical and Ubuntu websites and making sure our Community's needs are met by the site and the wiki. Also - have been working with plovs on the APFrontPage [02:30] My name is Sivan Green, I started working on the wiki some time ago, and a list of my current activies can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamCurrentWork [02:31] lulu: do you mean that I've finally found the person to ask things for when I want to interact with Canonical? [02:31] I am Steve Parkes and I am writing a different book based on the current upstream docs, cos I am a free software zealot too ;-) [02:31] enrico: fire away! - All - Please do not hesitate to be in touch and if I can help you I will. === enrico hugs lulu [02:32] Currently paying special attention to new people who join us, as well as well as devising a more formal plan / page for that matter. [02:33] anyone else? [02:33] I am George Dekavalas, currently doing nothing been thinking about making the plunge into contributing back and tonight is just the start of it. [02:33] nice one George^Deka ;-) welcome aboard === ChrisH 's real name is Christoph Haas. I'm new to the devel side of Ubuntu. Sent an introduction to ubuntu-devel@ yesterday. I've been maintaining Debian projects like mentors.debian.net before and want to check if there is work for me here. :) [02:33] I am Alexander (Sasha) Wait. Recently self-apointed free software zealot. Willing test-subject for community procedures and evangelist for the use of the Ubuntu O/S in science. I also run an ALife group in Boston and am the new maintainer of the REC.GAMES.COREWAR FAQ. [02:34] We should have an introduction of everyone now [02:34] what a team :o) [02:34] yes, I see some more people here, who hadn [02:35] n't introduced themselves, for sake of new comers I propose they do :) [02:35] Do people know of other active people who are not present here or written in the list? [02:35] Ben Edwards dropped out [02:35] what do you mean dropped out? [02:36] he is no longer on the doc team [02:36] Do you know why? [02:36] since when? [02:36] Was he mailing the list? [02:36] lulu: yes, but he asked me not to say [02:36] he was here first ,meeting and mailing list [02:37] hornbeck: oh dear. Sorry to hear that. Is there anything we can do to encourage his return? [02:37] lulu: I tried he said he was not interested in being a part anymore [02:37] i wrote to him, not for now he said [02:37] ok, lets try to speed up if we can :-) === asw has another meeting. (Thought it was later.) I'll log and see you all later! [02:38] asw: farwell [02:38] bye asw [02:38] fairwell [02:38] cheers! [02:38] asw: bye [02:38] asw: see ya! [02:38] asw: cya [02:39] Let's move on. I was thinking about asking people a list of wiki pages they maintain, but it would take time. Could everyone just list them in their wiki homepages? === plovs_work almost unnoticed looks at his watch 20 minutes left [02:39] enrico: tools we are currently using? [02:39] I know of Wiki and the upcoming version control system for large docs. And the mailing list. [02:40] enrico: agreed, those are the only ones right now [02:40] ok - have we got a final decision on the wiki markup language and for the website? [02:40] for the record? [02:40] We don't have a specific IRC channel, and I don't usually see IRC chats about the doc team: are there some happening? [02:41] lulu : I thought we would leave how it's now - everybody can choose whatever he likes [02:41] lulu: there was the idea of distinguishing between different stages of documents [02:41] irc is happening in -devel [02:41] lulu: I use ReST and moin [02:41] lulu : I've seen you can choose what format of markup to save === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:41] hornbeck: thanks. For the records, there's a lot of traffic in -devel and I don't follow it, so if you see me in and need me, just say my name and I'll see a notice [02:42] enrico: I normally PM you [02:42] :-) [02:42] #ubuntu-doc would not be bad [02:42] agreed [02:42] ok - perhaps we should have one we recommend - so we can get consistency? [02:43] let's agree for #ubuntu-doc for all our docdevel discussions, it's been great in serving us till now [02:43] somebody has to find out about channelownership etc [02:43] well in terms of markup to use what do people consider the best to us, for someone who has not edited a wiki before (no tendencies to one or other) [02:43] [format] this idea that was around in the list was to use the easiest markup (Moin) for things everyone scraps on, since it has a very low barrier of entry. Then, if things evolve and need more structure and the people in the page want, it can be refactored in ReST [02:43] Then eventually it can become a DocBook work if it grows up even more and the team of people that work on it feel like [02:43] enrico, agreed, moin is easy but broken in zwiki, ReST is difficult but (more) complete [02:43] enrico, the other parts of the site don't support moin so moving to /docs would require new markup [02:44] (from this recap I'm writing, I see a pattern emerging: "the people active on the page are the ones that decide" :) [02:44] enrico, that seemst o be the case [02:44] I think we should be focusing on MoinMoin, really use the wiki is the scrap & sketch area. [02:44] I had never edited a wiki before joining Canonical - moinmoin was very easy to learn. an should be fully supported by the ZWiki now.... [02:45] offline, full fledged stable docs should be docbook [02:45] [wiki] we seem to have an agreement. [02:45] sivang, agreed [02:45] Current wiki issues: [02:45] sivang: yes, docbook is a must offline [02:45] * speed (they're working on it, but nothing short term will happen) [02:45] * things lacking from Moin (I see TableOfContents often mentioned), is there other things? [02:45] so we've heared from lulu :-) thanks for your support though [02:46] sivang: yes, I was recapping lulu message: lulu, sorry for missing the attribution [02:46] * license of wiki contents === plovs_work applauds docbook [02:46] sivang: I really like ReST on the wiki [02:46] GPL! GPL! GPL! :) [02:46] enrico, gpl === ChrisH doubts a little that Wiki is really useful for more complex documents [02:47] gpl [02:47] gpl is the best option for upstream === sivang agrees with ChrisH === enrico is for GPL as well [02:47] ChrisH agreed [02:47] ChrisH, true === ChrisH raises his hand for Docbook-XML [02:47] ChrisH, seconded ;-) [02:48] docbook is for offline docs [02:48] we have agreed on that [02:48] lulu: jdub told me there was some offline discussion about wiki content license, but I never heard of outcomes === plovs_work agrees [02:48] hornbeck: It can be easily used to create online docs, too. === sivang agrees with ChrisH [02:48] ChrisH please send a link [02:48] lulu: I tried asking twice in the warthogs list but I got no answer [02:48] ChrisH, don't offend the wiki fans ;-) [02:48] enrico: Not sure of that myself - I am willing to find out - put e down for that action point. [02:48] lulu: do you know of anything? === hornbeck is not really a wiki fan [02:48] and I'll get back to you all [02:48] lulu: ok. Here we have an agreement on GPL [02:49] enrico: ok [02:49] lulu: if it's ok for them as well, we can proceed and put an explicit notice in the wiki [02:49] I am sure i read somewhere that someone had an issue on using the GPL for docs, but im fine with it [02:49] hornbeck: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ and http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ [02:49] enrico: I'd like to have a word with SABDFL on that issue ok? === ChrisH can help with providing Docbook-XML templates and Makefiles [02:49] ChrisH: thank you [02:49] It's important that there are no licensing issues in the wiki, or it would be a big problem when taking things from there into bigger doucments [02:50] George^Deka : that was for GFDL [02:50] lulu: ok. I tried already to talk with sabdfl about it, but with little success. I hope you're more lucky [02:50] We're getting to the end of the wiki discussion. Someone has some missing feature to report? [02:50] enrico: let's put a wiki page up of what the argument is and concerns raised and I will get a decision ok!? [02:51] we also need to take into account some parts of the wiki may be imported from elsewhere and have different licences [02:51] sivang: maybe but could have sworn there was also an issue with GPL, because i knew there was the issues with GFDL (non-DFSG) [02:51] lulu: ok. my original mail on warthogs can be used as base contents for the page [02:51] sparkes_x: exactly. [02:51] George^Deka : would you like to investiage and tell me your conclusions? this might be interesting. [02:51] lulu: I can take care of creating the page [02:52] enrico: good. Time is running short - let's move on. [02:52] what page are we talking about? [02:52] sivang: a recap on the licensing issue [02:52] ok [02:52] i will try, now trying to remeber where i saw it (me thinks it was ubuntu related or debian weekly news) [02:52] Next point is: how to approach new members === enrico hugs new members [02:52] yes === sivang hugs them also [02:52] :) [02:53] sivang: is there an ETA for a draft of the Initiation process so we can contribute wehn it's up there? [02:53] well as far as i can tell as being new for like 8 hours now, having people actually respond to your emails of help helps [02:53] lulu : I will have one by tommorow [02:53] sivang: awesome! [02:54] I would like to see we streamline the way we approach our new comers, [02:54] i have had the issue with moz that they are all two busy to get back to you on if they want your help or not [02:54] George same with mono-doc [02:54] noone wants to help you [02:54] together with a planned new comers TODO list, learning resources etc. [02:54] I propose to have a DocTeam Dogma [02:54] 1) All help mails should be answered [02:54] lulu: brillant - can you mail the link cause i might forget otherwise - good place for me to learn [02:55] bottom line, when someone approaches us and says "I wanna help" [02:55] he should be able to do so in matter of days, no better ! in matter of hours...:) [02:55] 2) RTFM is not an answer, unless it's nicely put and with a working link to the documentation [02:55] George^Deka: which link? === sivang HAILS enrico [02:55] I am sorry everyone for my RTFM reply [02:55] lulu: initiation process [02:55] hornbeck: Don't worry: it happens [02:56] hornbeck: there are habits we all carry from other communities [02:56] no it's ok, We love you John Hornbeck :) === lulu points to sivang! [02:56] hornbeck: ''do this and this and this. A more detailed overview can be found at '' [02:56] yes, I know [02:56] sivang: could u let the list know where the initiation doc is once it's up there? [02:56] I would like us to see take up on the spirit of #gnome-love [02:56] lulu : ofcourse, [02:56] I would send the link to ML [02:57] enrico: RTFM ? [02:57] read the f**ing manual [02:57] George^Deka: Read The Fine Manual [02:57] enrico is being nice [02:57] hornbeck: it's an acronym which has two expansions: one for the writer and one for the reader :) [02:57] i should have known - it is 1am here [02:58] About always responding to help messages, we have a deadlock problem [02:58] Many help request don't get answered because everyone thinks someone else will answer [02:58] everyone should answer if they see it first [02:58] if you see it reply [02:58] yes that is important [02:59] so new people wouldn't get the feeling it [02:59] no alie [02:59] alive [02:59] enrico: good point to have one person who is ultimately responsible? - sivang - do you want to answer these? [02:59] hornbeck: good. third dogma [02:59] (i can't type today, or anyday) [02:59] 3) If you see it, reply [02:59] As far as i am concerned the more replies the better, it makes you feel really wanted and that people are there to help you out. [02:59] lulu : I will [02:59] new people should go to the mailing-list or #ubuntu-doc [02:59] George^Deka: very good point! [03:00] we should be nice and then point them there [03:00] George^Deka: usually one thinks duplicate replies should be avoided because they generate unnecessary traffic, but this is an artefact from when we had 9.6Kbps modems. We should get past it! [03:00] one issue i did have today was there is no link from ubuntu mail-list page to the -doc ML - had to find it in a post from -users [03:00] plovs_work: would inviting people to #ubuntu-help be more useful than clouding your documentation-discussion channel? === enrico thanks George^Deka for enlightening him [03:00] Dogma 4 [03:00] George^Deka: yes - but we need to have someone ultimately responsible. [03:01] 4) Don't worry about duplicate replies [03:01] enrico: well thats what newbies are for [03:01] I am responsible for answering the info and webmaster emails and that has been a comment from most people - we always get back to people and it's a highlight for us - I think it's very important to be a responsive distro. [03:01] sladen, if they want help with doc-stuff they are welcome, not for general help [03:01] plovs_work: nod, sorry, missed that bit [03:01] lulu: but it took me a while to get to it so i could even join, if i wasn't persitant enough to find the archives i would have not been here tonight cause i didnt know it was happening [03:02] George^Deka: please if you see [03:02] we need one person who is responsible for those kind of things, helping newbies, newbie-docs etc [03:02] George^Deka: please if you see other issues like that, write a mail to the list: you're raising very valuable issues we were not able to see [03:03] plovs_work: sivan offered, if I'm not mistaken [03:03] enrico: sure will thought i would bring it here if i could anyway, another issue i had to guess it was on freenode [03:03] I think having a dedicated person for this task would be great, I am willing to voulenteer for that, but even so having other community memebers responsible for that would make a nice redundency in case I can't make it once in a while. [03:03] enrico, thanks [03:03] George^Deka: good point and sivan: thanks - I think that's a good call. [03:03] sivang: yes, there could be a welcome team [03:03] sivang, you'll do fine [03:04] I'm happy to be in the welcome team [03:04] Welcome team: sivang, enrico [03:04] great [03:04] done! What's next? [03:04] Next point: offline documentation [03:04] yes, I was about to type that [03:04] Do we agree on docbook? Yes. [03:04] Next point: [03:05] yes [03:05] :) [03:05] we HAVE to start writing this stuff [03:05] and decideing what is being brought over from debian [03:05] and gnome [03:05] I would like to see one goal we set up - [03:05] Conversion strategies between different formats: should we discuss it now or just tackle it when the problem shows up? [03:06] I propose to use the ancient philosophy "first get to do it, then document it, then automate it" [03:06] I am ok with postponing it for when the problem shows up [03:06] or leave it to next meeting [03:06] yes it would be wise :) I wonder what brought me to put it htere in the first place... === sivang ducks [03:06] Next point, then [03:06] License (again) [03:06] GPL! GPL! GPL! :) [03:06] I would #include [03:07] are we going to fix debian docs? [03:07] I am now on the debian-doc list and they are very outdated [03:07] Do we need licensing differences between wiki and docbook documents? [03:07] I don't think so [03:07] hornbeck: and make them ubuntu-docs? [03:07] we need a page, stating what docbook docs we need, i for one have no idea [03:07] lulu: yes [03:07] hornbeck: I like your thinking :o) [03:08] I really would like to see alot of offline stuff for hoary [03:08] I like the wiki but it is not a solid doc base [03:08] I would like to raise up one goal for hoary, to pollish up already exisitng docs and especilly improving GNOME docs to include Ubuntu's quircks and differences from stock === sparkes_x notices synagy at work when someone quotes http://www.paul.sladen.org/pronunciation/ in a mailing list message just as sladen was offering advice in here ;-) [03:08] sivang: add it to the wiki under HoaryHedgehog [03:08] I was thinking about it today, we need the wiki offline so it can just be used as help, with all the FAQ's etc i have been seeing around [03:09] gnome2-user-doc will be the first thing in the new server === sparkes_x I am fixing debian docs [03:09] lulu : ok, I will [03:09] So it might be a case of converting it (wiki) to docbook [03:09] If we get really good, we could do like de devels do with code: make patches and apply them to future versions of documents [03:09] this is what I have in mind [03:09] wtf I thought I was the only person who cared about debian-docs ;-) [03:09] But we can thing about that when we get really good [03:10] George^Deka: we have a Help Centre in Plone, called Documentation, where we are hoping all FAQs, HowTos and books will sit. [03:10] enrico: I have already begun talking to debian-doc guys about how I submit patches [03:10] lulu : I would like also to have some of it compiled and to be installed in an ubuntusystem out the box, and be browseable through yelp [03:10] lulu: granted, i still havent kicked debian and kde off this box yet. It will happen soon though [03:11] lulu : that is the markup that is used for that section on the main site? [03:11] hornbeck: cool!! [03:11] sivang: we have a mix of html and structured text currently [03:11] hornbeck: you mean we could team up with debian doc guys? That would be AWESOME! (or OUTSTANDING for the brits) [03:11] you lot are taking the piss now ;-) when I suggested debian docs everyone barfed [03:11] sivang: I think structured text is easier for most pepes and will need help converting all pages to it. === sivang finally starts to see that his wish to feed debian back comes to a reality [03:11] enrico: I posted to their list about helping, they were very happy to have me [03:12] sparkes_x: You are not sexy like me so noone listens :-p [03:12]