pl0vswhat is #debian-mentors?12:00
ChrisHsivang: :)12:02
ChrisHpl0vs: A channel for mentoring new debian package maintainers.12:02
ChrisHpl0vs: Two fellow project guys and I started it after we set up mentors.debian.net two years ago.12:02
ChrisHpl0vs: eim (Ivo Marino) and CHS (Christoph Siess)12:02
pl0vsah, so that's you as well, wow, i'm impressed12:04
sivangChrisH : was synregy in anyway related to the project apart from sponsering your packages?12:04
ChrisHsivang: Nope.12:04
ChrisHpl0vs: http://workaround.org/server.jpg12:05
pl0vsah, now i saw the pic full-size i can see the domainname on it :-)12:06
ChrisHpl0vs: :)12:06
pl0vshow fast is your uplink?12:06
pl0vsno ups?12:07
sivangme too12:07
sivangcould you remind me what is the black machine for?12:07
ChrisHsivang: my TV server ;)12:07
sivangah right12:07
sivangI recalled now :)12:07
ChrisHsivang: or do you mean the black pooping machine?12:08
sivangthe asus12:08
ChrisHpl0vs: I bougt that old 19" mini-rack from a coworker and moved those two machines into old 19" industry covers :)12:08
ChrisHsivang: Yes. :)12:08
=== sivang is listening to the amazing Scorpions in the background.
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sivangyo WW !12:09
WWHey there12:09
pl0vsWW, hi12:09
pl0vsChrisH, nice12:09
sivangChrisH : what machine are those? I mean the mentors.d.n and t.d.n ?12:10
sivangSCSI / ide ?12:10
pl0vsChrisH, but no ups needed in germany, here we loose electricity about once a month12:10
WWChrisH: Quick question (maybe): Your DocBook example shows how to create an html file.  How would I change that to create a PDF file?12:10
ChrisHsivang: Both 2 GHz Athlon. 512 MB RAM. IDE (m.d.n = 80 GB, t.w.o = 200 GB)12:10
ChrisHWW: docbook-utils - Convert Docbook files to other formats (HTML, RTF, PS, man, PDF)12:11
ChrisHWW: There is probably a stylesheet in that package.12:11
ChrisHWW: Just refer to the PDF XSLT and it should spit out pdf.12:11
WWChrisH: Oh, yeah.  _Eventually_ I'll RTFM, but all the acronyms and standards are a bit overwhelming.12:11
ChrisHWW: I've tried to keep them to a minimum. But it's confusing, yes.12:12
ChrisHWW: did you read pl0vs posting on -doc?12:13
pl0vsdocbook2man, docbook2pdf, docbook2rtf even!12:13
WWChrisH: I don't mean _your_ docs... those are nice.  But I start following links about other stuff, I get lost pretty quick.12:13
ChrisHWW: Have you ever worked with LaTeX?12:13
WWChrisH: Yes, lots.12:13
ChrisHWW: You probably haven't changed the styles yourself. Same here. :)12:13
ChrisHWW: Just use it. Tweak it by setting a few variables. That's it.12:13
ChrisHWW: That XSLT is even more funky than XML alone.12:14
sivangthis is the general defenition , of a general language :)12:14
=== sivang stares at XSLTs confused also
pl0vswe should add how to disable timesync to the faq as well12:15
ChrisHsivang: XSL is the language. XSLT is a transformation in that language that converts XML => sivangistic12:15
sivangChrisH : ah now I get it, finally.12:15
ChrisHInteresting: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/resources.html12:16
sivangsure load much faster then ubuntulinux.org .. :)12:16
=== sivang is really bugged by the slowness ubuntu.com comes up
ChrisHThat's not hard.12:17
ChrisHWiki is probably much more CPU-intensive than static pages.12:17
sivangChrisH : yes, but moinmoin was about 50% faster12:20
ChrisHThis seems to be what we are looking for12:20
pl0vsChrisH, maybe you could add the gnome link to the docbook page?12:20
ChrisHpl0vs: k12:20
sivangthis are XSLT templates ?12:21
ChrisHsivang: No, XML. :)12:21
ChrisHLooks like yelp is reading native docbook. So we would not need to convert anything.12:21
pl0vsjust add an ubuntu style-sheet12:23
pl0vsdo you guys know any radio stations that work with xmms?12:23
ChrisHOkay, guys. It was a long day. Heading to bed. Sleep well (if some of you ever sleep).12:24
ChrisHAnd don't talk behind my back. I read you! ;)12:24
pl0vssleep, i used to know such a word ...12:24
WWSee ya.12:24
pl0vsChrisH, good night!12:24
WWAbout docbook2pdf... I saved Chris's example as example.xml, and tried running "docbook2pdf example.xml > example.pdf"12:26
WWShould that work?12:26
sivangpl0vs : I install Helix and use it to play this www.106vic.org12:26
sivangChrisH : night buddy!12:27
WWI get this error:12:27
WWjade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported12:27
WWHmmm. The man page for docbook2pdf (which is just a front end for jw) says it can't handle xml, only sgml.12:33
sivangpl0vs : can you try and add ChrisH's docbook tutorial to the documentation section of the main website? I have ran into problems12:37
pl0vsWW, but it still works12:38
pl0vssivang, ok, let me try12:38
WWI can't seem to create a pdf file from Chris's "Hello world" example.12:38
WWShould I not use encoding="UTF-8"?12:39
pl0vsdocbook2pdf test.xml gives me a pdf file, and you do need utf812:40
WWDo you get the "jade" error that I got?12:41
WWActually, I do get a pdf file, but xpdf reports and error when it tries to display it.12:41
sivangpl0vs : any luck?12:42
pl0vswell, i cannot add a howto but i can edit existing ones12:42
pl0vswhich is funny because some are mine, so i put them there to begin with12:43
sivangwhich ones can you edit?12:43
pl0vsSmart BootManager Howto12:43
sivangargghh I wanted to add chris's tutorial there12:45
sivangwell, guess another mail to Lulu12:45
sivangboy's that's stupid :) I can also edit each and every howto / tutorial there,12:45
sivangbut not add a new one :)12:45
pl0vsso no new howto\s for now12:50
pl0vsyou guys into encrypted file-systems?01:00
WWNope.  Are you in a HowTo frenzy? :)01:01
pl0vsand icons01:02
WWHowTo encrypt your icons...01:02
WWI still can't get the pdf output to work... Probably doing (or not doing) something stupid here.01:02
pl0vsit's always like that with computers01:03
WWYeah, they are so picky about commas and semicolons and stuff.01:03
pl0vsyeah, picky they are01:03
pl0vscan you make html ?01:04
WWI was able to make an html file using the command in Chris's notes (xsltproc), but if I use docbook2html, I get that same jade error.01:07
pl0vsWW, does  xsltproc -o test.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/docbook.xsl test.xml work?01:07
WWYes, that one works.01:07
pl0vsdocbook2html test.xml gives me an error message and index.html01:09
WWWhat is the error message?01:11
pl0vsjade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported01:11
WWLooks familiar. :)01:11
pl0vsyou have no index.html in the directory where you ran docbook2html?01:13
sivangI am calling it a night, fellas :)01:13
pl0vssivang, ok, see ya!01:14
sivangG'night all, c'ya soon!01:14
sivangnice docbook work went on today, thanks to ChrisH, pl0vs , everybody on the doc team 01:14
WWSee ya.01:14
WWpl0vs: Yes, it did create an index.html.  01:15
sivangsee ya WW01:15
pl0vscan you check it?01:15
WWI checked it with firefox. It has the same structure as the file created by the xsltproc command, but it numbers the section, and the font is bigger.01:16
pl0vsbut it is correct?01:19
pl0vsthat means it works01:19
WWpl0vs: Yes, it looks correct.01:20
pl0vsdocbook2pdf test.xml what does that do, i get an erro but also test.pdf01:21
WWI get the same jade error, and a pdf file.  However, xpdf is unable to read the pdf file.  It gives errors and shows a blank window.01:22
pl0vshmm, here i get an error but xpdf does read the file ok01:24
WWDoh! Never mind. I was doing this: docbook2pdf test.xml > test.pdf01:24
WWSo I was trying to use stdout as the pdf file.01:25
pl0vsso, now it works?01:26
WWYes, I now have a pdf output that looks correct.01:26
WWNow I have to learn the various ways of hacking stylesheets to get the output just the way I want it.  Oh boy.01:29
WWI'm taking off.  See ya, pl0vs.  If I find any cool icons, I'll let you know. :)01:31
pl0vsWW, ok, see ya, good night01:33
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ftwigHi, anybody around?04:40
pl0vsftwig, hi04:40
pl0vslooking for help with writing ubuntu-docs?04:45
ftwigthe fromt page of the wiki has gone a bit teche - I did a alternative at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewFrontPage which was linked to from the front page but the link has been removed;(04:45
pl0vsah, it was you page04:45
ftwigyes - it had agrement on the old wiki but I have not been able to incorporate stuff from new wiki04:45
ftwigmy view was the wiki should stand on its own and have the same philosify as newbie frendly as the rest of the project04:46
pl0vsyes, well actually several  things from your page were used on the new page04:47
pl0vsit was a bit from all kinds of pages together04:47
pl0vswhat do you think of the new page?04:47
pl0vsFrontPage, that is04:48
ftwigif I was a newbie I would run away ;) - apart from that fine04:48
pl0vswhat do you think is newbie unfriendly?04:48
ftwigthe getting started section was to get round this, and thats why it was at the top04:49
ftwigalso I had a nice contence section whitch was auto generated in moin but it cant be done in zwiki;(04:50
pl0vsyes, still fighting with the admins on that one [[TableOfContents] ] 04:51
pl0vsthe canonical wanted alphabetical order04:51
ftwig?alph order04:53
pl0vsand the real first page has getting ubuntu on it http://www.ubuntulinux.org04:53
pl0vsCommunity, Documentation, Policies & Procedures etc04:53
ftwigI also think the wili should be moin as thats a lot easier to learn.  Problem with havein RsTxt is people will use it and scare away people04:54
pl0vsit is still possible to use moin, and yes i would have preferred just moin as well04:55
pl0vsespecially 1.304:55
pl0vsbut having one site is easier for the admins04:55
ftwigAs I said I think the wiki should stand on its own - that way a total site can be developed04:55
pl0vsthe wiki is only used as a scratchpad, all finished docs will be taken out and moved in the support-area04:56
ftwigare you saying we cant turn off RsTxt in the wiki section only04:56
ftwigproblem with moving stuff off the wiki is it makes it more difficult to develop in04:57
pl0vsno, some writers prefer ReST over moin (i for one)04:57
pl0vsthe stuff that is moved will aso be put in yelp04:58
pl0vsso it will be installed on the desktop04:58
pl0vswe move it to docbook04:58
pl0vsso people without network still have docs04:58
ftwigbut surly accessebility in terms of learning markup is of prime importance in wiki.  If some of it is in ReST it may scare off some people 04:58
ftwigBTW the alpha order on the front page would REALLY suck.  The stuff new users need should be at top04:59
pl0vsi have been looking at who actually uses the wiki to write, i think hjaving to register is a bigger hurdle the the markup04:59
pl0vsthen the markup05:00
ftwignot if you use other wiki and know moin ;)05:00
pl0vswe'll see, if moin support becomes better maybe we will remove ReST, until then we will have mixed 05:02
ftwigOK - anyway must go to bed05:02
pl0vsand about the frontpage, the order needs to be improved05:02
pl0vsok, thanks for dropping by!05:02
pl0vsc ya!05:03
ftwigwhat I would really love is someone to do a increasing res in X - I keep on doing installs and cant get above 1024;(05:03
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ChrisHplovs: moin...10:36
plovshe do you know: how to make a service stop forever without installing it10:37
plovschmod -x?10:37
plovsor update-rc.d10:38
plovsor both?10:38
plovsi am updating https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuBootupHowto, and i do not know if it is correct10:39
ChrisHplovs: update-rc.d servicename remove10:58
ChrisHplovs: see "man update-rc.d"10:58
plovsChrisH, yes, i did, but do they *stay* away? or do they get reinstalled10:58
plovssb on the m'list said so10:59
plovsbut what i wrote in the howto is what i do10:59
ChrisHReinstalled? You mean if the service gets registered in the rc2.d when you "apt-get --reinstall install ..."?11:03
plovswhen the service gets updaed i mean11:07
ChrisHIMHO it will stay disabled.11:07
ChrisHThough it's not 100% clear.11:11
plovsChrisH, thanks11:14
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ChrisHtrickie: hi12:03
trickiei posted earlier on the developers list asking where i can start to help out on ubuntu12:04
trickiethought docs is a good start12:04
trickiewould i find things to do for documentation on bugzilla?12:06
plovstrickie, not yet12:06
plovstrickie, what are your interests?12:07
trickiewell i do quite a bit of web development... also mono and gtk12:10
trickiei wouldn't mind learning abit about ubuntu as whole... like some of the processes involved with releasing a distro12:10
ChrisHtrickie: I'm not long in the project either. The biggest problem is that even if there are rules they are hardly documented.12:11
trickiei also enjoy programming with python12:11
trickiei don't know much about debian so i gather that puts me behind in knowing a great deal about ubuntu12:12
ChrisHtrickie: My first feeling when I read the main page was "Ubuntu is maintained by a small number of hand-picked debian developers". Sounded a bit elitist. I wasn't sure if I wanted to contribute. But actually the structure are a hell better than what's partly happening in Debian.12:13
ChrisHtrickie: Unless you want to maintain your own packages (as they are still taken from Debian) you are probably free to contribute to every part of Ubuntu.12:13
trickieso like the mailing lists, wiki that sort of thing?12:14
trickiebug fixes etc?12:15
ChrisHThere is just one bug report in the bugzilla regarding documentation.12:17
plovsfor docs that are "open" you might check: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo12:17
ChrisHI guess most of what needs to be done will be discussed here.12:17
trickieok thanks12:17
plovsChrisH, we just gor the bugzilla entry, so we're not yet used to it12:17
trickiewell... time for bed... thanks for your help... i'll be around again!12:24
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sivanghowdy all03:47
sivangChrisH , around?03:49
ChrisHsivang: yes... in a minute03:52
sivangah no prob03:54
sivangI see we've got ourselves a new channel op :)03:54
sivanghe's here all the time03:54
=== ChrisH is not an op
ChrisHsivang: back... my wife wanted to have footprints of our son in cement - what a mess04:05
sivangwow! He's a real celeberity04:05
sivanglike movie starts in hollywoord04:05
ChrisHJust that blowing up out kitchen with TNT wouldn't make a greater mess. :)04:07
sivangwell, you should call out the cleaning lady and have her fix the kitchen back04:07
sivangChrisH : are you still using sarge / sid ?04:16
ChrisHsivang: yes, on my main pc04:17
sivangI was wondering, I can't seem to  make sound work on my inspiron 8200 laptop,04:18
sivangand Ubuntu , well made me little unable by means of configuration..:)04:18
sivangdo you remember how to set up sound using alsa in sarge?04:18
sivangI am trying to use alsaconf,04:18
sivangit appears to be detecting the hardware but it doesn't work 04:18
ChrisHsivang: I didn't use alsaconf finally as it was too confusing.04:24
sivangwell yes,04:24
sivangit's pretty much that way - you never know really what goes on04:24
sivangso , you used manual modprobe ?04:24
ChrisHsivang: In kernel 2.4 I use OSS and in 2.6 I switched to alsa. The kernel did it all.04:25
ChrisHsivang: then I check "lspci" which modules I needed... modprobe... bingo04:26
sivangproblem is, I already tried many things using 'modconf' and I might be already having oss colliding with alsa04:26
sivangin 2.6, is /dev/dsp still used?04:28
ChrisHsivang: I'd be curious how to make my Sid installation auto-detect the hardware just like ubuntu and the new sarge installer does.04:28
sivang(I reckon GNOME is trying to find it )04:28
sivangthe new sarge installer does that?04:28
ChrisHsivang: At least /dev/dsp enabled apps work in ubuntu and the artsd. (like xgalaga) I didn't get that to work in KDE.04:28
sivangWell, I'm not much of a KDE user anymore, so I guess I don't care about it.04:29
ChrisHsivang: Well... I installed hotplug and discover. But that didn't help it.04:31
sivangah right04:32
sivangI should try those, although I think discover had alredy been installed.04:32
ChrisHsivang: I'm currently trying the gnome 2.6 (as in Sid) but it has flaws... the file requester is making me mad for example.04:32
sivanglet's se04:32
ChrisHI just wanted to add a "home" symbol to the panel that should open my home directory. worked with nautils after a while. Then I wanted to give it a decent icon - not a chance. I chose /usr/share/pixmaps but whenever I clicked on "Open" nothing happened because the file requester wanted to open a file - not a directory.04:33
ChrisHAnd I even don't want to talk about "spatial views". The first thing I did was switching back to the old behavior.04:33
sivangok, hotplug already installed.04:34
ChrisHI really like Gnome (over fvwm2 or fluxbox) but KDE is much more integrated.04:34
sivangdiscover I just did04:34
sivanganyway, I'll go for a reboot hopefully all the redundent OSS modules would get off04:34
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smurfixAnybody know how to embed WikiLinks into ReST documents?07:35
smurfix(Specifically, links with slashes in them)07:35
ChrisHsmurfix: Try [Wiki/Link] 07:36
smurfixAh, it displays the brackets only as long as the page doesn't exist. Very clever ^w confusing, that.07:39
ChrisHsmurfix: :)07:40
ChrisHGod... is the Wiki sleeping? It takes ages to commit changes.07:42
ChrisHplovs: I have added some content to the SSHHowto Wiki page. Like to review it?07:52
plovsChrisH yes, i'll look at it,thanks08:54
plovsChrisH, very nice08:58
ChrisHplovs: Thanks. :) I just felt the page would miss something about the more funky features.08:58
plovsChrisH, ah, the power of wiki09:07
ChrisHplovs: You wrote "work in progress". Is there anything you would miss on that page?09:09
plovsChrisH, i would like to add ssh-agent stuff to it09:13
ChrisHplovs: what exactly?09:14
plovshow to get ssh-agent to run on login, be asked for the password once and that's it09:16
ChrisHErrr. Do you really miss it? Try scrolling down a little. ;)09:16
plovsduh, i should not imagine i can read 5 windows in the same time, sorry09:22
ChrisHJust wondering. :)09:22
plovsthen it's more or less finished09:22
plovsjust icons, then it's ok ;-)09:22
ChrisHYou are the icon man.09:23
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