| pl0vs | what is #debian-mentors? | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ChrisH | sivang: :) | 12:02 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: A channel for mentoring new debian package maintainers. | 12:02 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: Two fellow project guys and I started it after we set up mentors.debian.net two years ago. | 12:02 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: eim (Ivo Marino) and CHS (Christoph Siess) | 12:02 |
| pl0vs | ah, so that's you as well, wow, i'm impressed | 12:04 |
| sivang | ChrisH : was synregy in anyway related to the project apart from sponsering your packages? | 12:04 |
| ChrisH | sivang: Nope. | 12:04 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: http://workaround.org/server.jpg | 12:05 |
| pl0vs | ah, now i saw the pic full-size i can see the domainname on it :-) | 12:06 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: :) | 12:06 |
| pl0vs | how fast is your uplink? | 12:06 |
| pl0vs | no ups? | 12:07 |
| sivang | me too | 12:07 |
| ChrisH | 512kbps | 12:07 |
| sivang | could you remind me what is the black machine for? | 12:07 |
| ChrisH | sivang: my TV server ;) | 12:07 |
| sivang | ah right | 12:07 |
| sivang | I recalled now :) | 12:07 |
| ChrisH | sivang: or do you mean the black pooping machine? | 12:08 |
| sivang | the asus | 12:08 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: I bougt that old 19" mini-rack from a coworker and moved those two machines into old 19" industry covers :) | 12:08 |
| ChrisH | sivang: Yes. :) | 12:08 |
| === sivang is listening to the amazing Scorpions in the background. | ||
| === WW [~wweckesse@67-138-144-192.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sivang | yo WW ! | 12:09 |
| ChrisH | yo^2 | 12:09 |
| WW | Hey there | 12:09 |
| pl0vs | WW, hi | 12:09 |
| pl0vs | ChrisH, nice | 12:09 |
| sivang | ChrisH : what machine are those? I mean the mentors.d.n and t.d.n ? | 12:10 |
| sivang | SCSI / ide ? | 12:10 |
| pl0vs | ChrisH, but no ups needed in germany, here we loose electricity about once a month | 12:10 |
| WW | ChrisH: Quick question (maybe): Your DocBook example shows how to create an html file. How would I change that to create a PDF file? | 12:10 |
| ChrisH | sivang: Both 2 GHz Athlon. 512 MB RAM. IDE (m.d.n = 80 GB, t.w.o = 200 GB) | 12:10 |
| sivang | wow | 12:11 |
| ChrisH | WW: docbook-utils - Convert Docbook files to other formats (HTML, RTF, PS, man, PDF) | 12:11 |
| ChrisH | WW: There is probably a stylesheet in that package. | 12:11 |
| ChrisH | WW: Just refer to the PDF XSLT and it should spit out pdf. | 12:11 |
| WW | ChrisH: Oh, yeah. _Eventually_ I'll RTFM, but all the acronyms and standards are a bit overwhelming. | 12:11 |
| ChrisH | WW: I've tried to keep them to a minimum. But it's confusing, yes. | 12:12 |
| ChrisH | WW: did you read pl0vs posting on -doc? | 12:13 |
| pl0vs | docbook2man, docbook2pdf, docbook2rtf even! | 12:13 |
| WW | ChrisH: I don't mean _your_ docs... those are nice. But I start following links about other stuff, I get lost pretty quick. | 12:13 |
| ChrisH | WW: Have you ever worked with LaTeX? | 12:13 |
| WW | ChrisH: Yes, lots. | 12:13 |
| ChrisH | WW: You probably haven't changed the styles yourself. Same here. :) | 12:13 |
| ChrisH | WW: Just use it. Tweak it by setting a few variables. That's it. | 12:13 |
| ChrisH | WW: That XSLT is even more funky than XML alone. | 12:14 |
| sivang | this is the general defenition , of a general language :) | 12:14 |
| === sivang stares at XSLTs confused also | ||
| pl0vs | we should add how to disable timesync to the faq as well | 12:15 |
| ChrisH | sivang: XSL is the language. XSLT is a transformation in that language that converts XML => sivangistic | 12:15 |
| sivang | ChrisH : ah now I get it, finally. | 12:15 |
| ChrisH | Interesting: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/resources.html | 12:16 |
| sivang | sure load much faster then ubuntulinux.org .. :) | 12:16 |
| === sivang is really bugged by the slowness ubuntu.com comes up | ||
| ChrisH | That's not hard. | 12:17 |
| ChrisH | Wiki is probably much more CPU-intensive than static pages. | 12:17 |
| ChrisH | http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/templates.html | 12:20 |
| sivang | ChrisH : yes, but moinmoin was about 50% faster | 12:20 |
| ChrisH | This seems to be what we are looking for | 12:20 |
| pl0vs | ChrisH, maybe you could add the gnome link to the docbook page? | 12:20 |
| ChrisH | pl0vs: k | 12:20 |
| sivang | this are XSLT templates ? | 12:21 |
| ChrisH | sivang: No, XML. :) | 12:21 |
| ChrisH | Looks like yelp is reading native docbook. So we would not need to convert anything. | 12:21 |
| pl0vs | just add an ubuntu style-sheet | 12:23 |
| pl0vs | do you guys know any radio stations that work with xmms? | 12:23 |
| ChrisH | Okay, guys. It was a long day. Heading to bed. Sleep well (if some of you ever sleep). | 12:24 |
| ChrisH | And don't talk behind my back. I read you! ;) | 12:24 |
| pl0vs | sleep, i used to know such a word ... | 12:24 |
| WW | See ya. | 12:24 |
| pl0vs | ChrisH, good night! | 12:24 |
| WW | About docbook2pdf... I saved Chris's example as example.xml, and tried running "docbook2pdf example.xml > example.pdf" | 12:26 |
| WW | Should that work? | 12:26 |
| sivang | pl0vs : I install Helix and use it to play this www.106vic.org | 12:26 |
| sivang | ChrisH : night buddy! | 12:27 |
| WW | I get this error: | 12:27 |
| WW | jade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported | 12:27 |
| WW | Hmmm. The man page for docbook2pdf (which is just a front end for jw) says it can't handle xml, only sgml. | 12:33 |
| sivang | pl0vs : can you try and add ChrisH's docbook tutorial to the documentation section of the main website? I have ran into problems | 12:37 |
| pl0vs | WW, but it still works | 12:38 |
| pl0vs | sivang, ok, let me try | 12:38 |
| WW | I can't seem to create a pdf file from Chris's "Hello world" example. | 12:38 |
| WW | Should I not use encoding="UTF-8"? | 12:39 |
| pl0vs | docbook2pdf test.xml gives me a pdf file, and you do need utf8 | 12:40 |
| WW | Do you get the "jade" error that I got? | 12:41 |
| WW | Actually, I do get a pdf file, but xpdf reports and error when it tries to display it. | 12:41 |
| sivang | pl0vs : any luck? | 12:42 |
| pl0vs | well, i cannot add a howto but i can edit existing ones | 12:42 |
| pl0vs | which is funny because some are mine, so i put them there to begin with | 12:43 |
| sivang | which ones can you edit? | 12:43 |
| pl0vs | Smart BootManager Howto | 12:43 |
| sivang | argghh I wanted to add chris's tutorial there | 12:45 |
| sivang | well, guess another mail to Lulu | 12:45 |
| sivang | boy's that's stupid :) I can also edit each and every howto / tutorial there, | 12:45 |
| sivang | but not add a new one :) | 12:45 |
| pl0vs | right. | 12:49 |
| pl0vs | so no new howto\s for now | 12:50 |
| sivang | :( | 12:50 |
| pl0vs | you guys into encrypted file-systems? | 01:00 |
| WW | Nope. Are you in a HowTo frenzy? :) | 01:01 |
| pl0vs | yes | 01:01 |
| pl0vs | ;) | 01:01 |
| pl0vs | and icons | 01:02 |
| WW | HowTo encrypt your icons... | 01:02 |
| pl0vs | coool.. | 01:02 |
| WW | I still can't get the pdf output to work... Probably doing (or not doing) something stupid here. | 01:02 |
| pl0vs | it's always like that with computers | 01:03 |
| WW | Yeah, they are so picky about commas and semicolons and stuff. | 01:03 |
| pl0vs | yeah, picky they are | 01:03 |
| pl0vs | can you make html ? | 01:04 |
| WW | I was able to make an html file using the command in Chris's notes (xsltproc), but if I use docbook2html, I get that same jade error. | 01:07 |
| pl0vs | WW, does xsltproc -o test.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/docbook.xsl test.xml work? | 01:07 |
| WW | Yes, that one works. | 01:07 |
| pl0vs | docbook2html test.xml gives me an error message and index.html | 01:09 |
| WW | What is the error message? | 01:11 |
| pl0vs | jade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported | 01:11 |
| WW | Looks familiar. :) | 01:11 |
| pl0vs | you have no index.html in the directory where you ran docbook2html? | 01:13 |
| sivang | I am calling it a night, fellas :) | 01:13 |
| pl0vs | sivang, ok, see ya! | 01:14 |
| sivang | G'night all, c'ya soon! | 01:14 |
| sivang | nice docbook work went on today, thanks to ChrisH, pl0vs , everybody on the doc team | 01:14 |
| WW | See ya. | 01:14 |
| WW | pl0vs: Yes, it did create an index.html. | 01:15 |
| pl0vs | ah! | 01:15 |
| sivang | see ya WW | 01:15 |
| pl0vs | can you check it? | 01:15 |
| WW | I checked it with firefox. It has the same structure as the file created by the xsltproc command, but it numbers the section, and the font is bigger. | 01:16 |
| pl0vs | but it is correct? | 01:19 |
| pl0vs | that means it works | 01:19 |
| WW | pl0vs: Yes, it looks correct. | 01:20 |
| pl0vs | docbook2pdf test.xml what does that do, i get an erro but also test.pdf | 01:21 |
| WW | I get the same jade error, and a pdf file. However, xpdf is unable to read the pdf file. It gives errors and shows a blank window. | 01:22 |
| pl0vs | hmm, here i get an error but xpdf does read the file ok | 01:24 |
| WW | Doh! Never mind. I was doing this: docbook2pdf test.xml > test.pdf | 01:24 |
| WW | So I was trying to use stdout as the pdf file. | 01:25 |
| pl0vs | :) | 01:26 |
| pl0vs | so, now it works? | 01:26 |
| WW | Yes, I now have a pdf output that looks correct. | 01:26 |
| pl0vs | ok! | 01:27 |
| WW | Now I have to learn the various ways of hacking stylesheets to get the output just the way I want it. Oh boy. | 01:29 |
| WW | I'm taking off. See ya, pl0vs. If I find any cool icons, I'll let you know. :) | 01:31 |
| pl0vs | WW, ok, see ya, good night | 01:33 |
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| ftwig | Hi, anybody around? | 04:40 |
| pl0vs | ftwig, hi | 04:40 |
| ftwig | hi | 04:43 |
| pl0vs | looking for help with writing ubuntu-docs? | 04:45 |
| ftwig | the fromt page of the wiki has gone a bit teche - I did a alternative at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewFrontPage which was linked to from the front page but the link has been removed;( | 04:45 |
| pl0vs | ah, it was you page | 04:45 |
| ftwig | yes - it had agrement on the old wiki but I have not been able to incorporate stuff from new wiki | 04:45 |
| ftwig | my view was the wiki should stand on its own and have the same philosify as newbie frendly as the rest of the project | 04:46 |
| pl0vs | yes, well actually several things from your page were used on the new page | 04:47 |
| pl0vs | it was a bit from all kinds of pages together | 04:47 |
| pl0vs | what do you think of the new page? | 04:47 |
| pl0vs | FrontPage, that is | 04:48 |
| ftwig | if I was a newbie I would run away ;) - apart from that fine | 04:48 |
| pl0vs | :) | 04:48 |
| pl0vs | what do you think is newbie unfriendly? | 04:48 |
| ftwig | the getting started section was to get round this, and thats why it was at the top | 04:49 |
| ftwig | also I had a nice contence section whitch was auto generated in moin but it cant be done in zwiki;( | 04:50 |
| pl0vs | yes, still fighting with the admins on that one [[TableOfContents] ] | 04:51 |
| pl0vs | the canonical wanted alphabetical order | 04:51 |
| ftwig | ?alph order | 04:53 |
| pl0vs | and the real first page has getting ubuntu on it http://www.ubuntulinux.org | 04:53 |
| pl0vs | Community, Documentation, Policies & Procedures etc | 04:53 |
| ftwig | I also think the wili should be moin as thats a lot easier to learn. Problem with havein RsTxt is people will use it and scare away people | 04:54 |
| pl0vs | it is still possible to use moin, and yes i would have preferred just moin as well | 04:55 |
| pl0vs | especially 1.3 | 04:55 |
| pl0vs | but having one site is easier for the admins | 04:55 |
| ftwig | As I said I think the wiki should stand on its own - that way a total site can be developed | 04:55 |
| pl0vs | the wiki is only used as a scratchpad, all finished docs will be taken out and moved in the support-area | 04:56 |
| ftwig | are you saying we cant turn off RsTxt in the wiki section only | 04:56 |
| ftwig | problem with moving stuff off the wiki is it makes it more difficult to develop in | 04:57 |
| pl0vs | no, some writers prefer ReST over moin (i for one) | 04:57 |
| pl0vs | the stuff that is moved will aso be put in yelp | 04:58 |
| pl0vs | so it will be installed on the desktop | 04:58 |
| pl0vs | we move it to docbook | 04:58 |
| pl0vs | so people without network still have docs | 04:58 |
| ftwig | but surly accessebility in terms of learning markup is of prime importance in wiki. If some of it is in ReST it may scare off some people | 04:58 |
| ftwig | BTW the alpha order on the front page would REALLY suck. The stuff new users need should be at top | 04:59 |
| pl0vs | i have been looking at who actually uses the wiki to write, i think hjaving to register is a bigger hurdle the the markup | 04:59 |
| pl0vs | then the markup | 05:00 |
| ftwig | not if you use other wiki and know moin ;) | 05:00 |
| pl0vs | we'll see, if moin support becomes better maybe we will remove ReST, until then we will have mixed | 05:02 |
| ftwig | OK - anyway must go to bed | 05:02 |
| pl0vs | and about the frontpage, the order needs to be improved | 05:02 |
| pl0vs | ok, thanks for dropping by! | 05:02 |
| pl0vs | c ya! | 05:03 |
| ftwig | what I would really love is someone to do a increasing res in X - I keep on doing installs and cant get above 1024;( | 05:03 |
| ftwig | nite | 05:03 |
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| ChrisH | plovs: moin... | 10:36 |
| plovs | hi! | 10:36 |
| plovs | he do you know: how to make a service stop forever without installing it | 10:37 |
| plovs | chmod -x? | 10:37 |
| plovs | or update-rc.d | 10:38 |
| plovs | or both? | 10:38 |
| plovs | i am updating https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuBootupHowto, and i do not know if it is correct | 10:39 |
| ChrisH | plovs: update-rc.d servicename remove | 10:58 |
| ChrisH | plovs: see "man update-rc.d" | 10:58 |
| plovs | ChrisH, yes, i did, but do they *stay* away? or do they get reinstalled | 10:58 |
| plovs | sb on the m'list said so | 10:59 |
| plovs | but what i wrote in the howto is what i do | 10:59 |
| ChrisH | Reinstalled? You mean if the service gets registered in the rc2.d when you "apt-get --reinstall install ..."? | 11:03 |
| plovs | when the service gets updaed i mean | 11:07 |
| ChrisH | IMHO it will stay disabled. | 11:07 |
| ChrisH | http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s-sysvinit | 11:10 |
| ChrisH | 9.3.2 | 11:10 |
| ChrisH | Though it's not 100% clear. | 11:11 |
| plovs | ChrisH, thanks | 11:14 |
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| ChrisH | trickie: hi | 12:03 |
| trickie | hello | 12:03 |
| trickie | i posted earlier on the developers list asking where i can start to help out on ubuntu | 12:04 |
| trickie | thought docs is a good start | 12:04 |
| trickie | would i find things to do for documentation on bugzilla? | 12:06 |
| plovs | trickie, not yet | 12:06 |
| plovs | trickie, what are your interests? | 12:07 |
| trickie | well i do quite a bit of web development... also mono and gtk | 12:10 |
| trickie | i wouldn't mind learning abit about ubuntu as whole... like some of the processes involved with releasing a distro | 12:10 |
| ChrisH | trickie: I'm not long in the project either. The biggest problem is that even if there are rules they are hardly documented. | 12:11 |
| trickie | i also enjoy programming with python | 12:11 |
| trickie | true | 12:12 |
| trickie | i don't know much about debian so i gather that puts me behind in knowing a great deal about ubuntu | 12:12 |
| ChrisH | trickie: My first feeling when I read the main page was "Ubuntu is maintained by a small number of hand-picked debian developers". Sounded a bit elitist. I wasn't sure if I wanted to contribute. But actually the structure are a hell better than what's partly happening in Debian. | 12:13 |
| ChrisH | trickie: Unless you want to maintain your own packages (as they are still taken from Debian) you are probably free to contribute to every part of Ubuntu. | 12:13 |
| trickie | so like the mailing lists, wiki that sort of thing? | 12:14 |
| trickie | bug fixes etc? | 12:15 |
| ChrisH | There is just one bug report in the bugzilla regarding documentation. | 12:17 |
| plovs | for docs that are "open" you might check: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo | 12:17 |
| ChrisH | I guess most of what needs to be done will be discussed here. | 12:17 |
| trickie | ok thanks | 12:17 |
| plovs | ChrisH, we just gor the bugzilla entry, so we're not yet used to it | 12:17 |
| ChrisH | ah | 12:19 |
| trickie | well... time for bed... thanks for your help... i'll be around again! | 12:24 |
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| sivang | howdy all | 03:47 |
| sivang | ChrisH , around? | 03:49 |
| ChrisH | sivang: yes... in a minute | 03:52 |
| sivang | ah no prob | 03:54 |
| sivang | I see we've got ourselves a new channel op :) | 03:54 |
| sivang | he's here all the time | 03:54 |
| === ChrisH is not an op | ||
| ChrisH | sivang: back... my wife wanted to have footprints of our son in cement - what a mess | 04:05 |
| sivang | wow! He's a real celeberity | 04:05 |
| sivang | :) | 04:05 |
| sivang | like movie starts in hollywoord | 04:05 |
| ChrisH | Just that blowing up out kitchen with TNT wouldn't make a greater mess. :) | 04:07 |
| sivang | hahaha | 04:07 |
| sivang | well, you should call out the cleaning lady and have her fix the kitchen back | 04:07 |
| sivang | :) | 04:07 |
| sivang | ChrisH : are you still using sarge / sid ? | 04:16 |
| ChrisH | sivang: yes, on my main pc | 04:17 |
| sivang | I was wondering, I can't seem to make sound work on my inspiron 8200 laptop, | 04:18 |
| sivang | and Ubuntu , well made me little unable by means of configuration..:) | 04:18 |
| sivang | do you remember how to set up sound using alsa in sarge? | 04:18 |
| sivang | I am trying to use alsaconf, | 04:18 |
| sivang | it appears to be detecting the hardware but it doesn't work | 04:18 |
| ChrisH | sivang: I didn't use alsaconf finally as it was too confusing. | 04:24 |
| sivang | well yes, | 04:24 |
| sivang | it's pretty much that way - you never know really what goes on | 04:24 |
| sivang | so , you used manual modprobe ? | 04:24 |
| ChrisH | sivang: In kernel 2.4 I use OSS and in 2.6 I switched to alsa. The kernel did it all. | 04:25 |
| ChrisH | sivang: then I check "lspci" which modules I needed... modprobe... bingo | 04:26 |
| sivang | problem is, I already tried many things using 'modconf' and I might be already having oss colliding with alsa | 04:26 |
| sivang | darn.. | 04:27 |
| sivang | in 2.6, is /dev/dsp still used? | 04:28 |
| ChrisH | sivang: I'd be curious how to make my Sid installation auto-detect the hardware just like ubuntu and the new sarge installer does. | 04:28 |
| sivang | (I reckon GNOME is trying to find it ) | 04:28 |
| sivang | the new sarge installer does that? | 04:28 |
| ChrisH | sivang: At least /dev/dsp enabled apps work in ubuntu and the artsd. (like xgalaga) I didn't get that to work in KDE. | 04:28 |
| sivang | Well, I'm not much of a KDE user anymore, so I guess I don't care about it. | 04:29 |
| ChrisH | sivang: Well... I installed hotplug and discover. But that didn't help it. | 04:31 |
| sivang | ah right | 04:32 |
| sivang | I should try those, although I think discover had alredy been installed. | 04:32 |
| ChrisH | sivang: I'm currently trying the gnome 2.6 (as in Sid) but it has flaws... the file requester is making me mad for example. | 04:32 |
| sivang | let's se | 04:32 |
| ChrisH | I just wanted to add a "home" symbol to the panel that should open my home directory. worked with nautils after a while. Then I wanted to give it a decent icon - not a chance. I chose /usr/share/pixmaps but whenever I clicked on "Open" nothing happened because the file requester wanted to open a file - not a directory. | 04:33 |
| ChrisH | And I even don't want to talk about "spatial views". The first thing I did was switching back to the old behavior. | 04:33 |
| sivang | ok, hotplug already installed. | 04:34 |
| ChrisH | I really like Gnome (over fvwm2 or fluxbox) but KDE is much more integrated. | 04:34 |
| sivang | discover I just did | 04:34 |
| sivang | teu | 04:34 |
| sivang | true | 04:34 |
| sivang | anyway, I'll go for a reboot hopefully all the redundent OSS modules would get off | 04:34 |
| sivang | :) | 04:34 |
| sivang | beb | 04:35 |
| sivang | brb | 04:35 |
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| sivang | back | 05:36 |
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| smurfix | Anybody know how to embed WikiLinks into ReST documents? | 07:35 |
| smurfix | (Specifically, links with slashes in them) | 07:35 |
| ChrisH | smurfix: Try [Wiki/Link] | 07:36 |
| smurfix | Ah, it displays the brackets only as long as the page doesn't exist. Very clever ^w confusing, that. | 07:39 |
| ChrisH | smurfix: :) | 07:40 |
| ChrisH | God... is the Wiki sleeping? It takes ages to commit changes. | 07:42 |
| ChrisH | plovs: I have added some content to the SSHHowto Wiki page. Like to review it? | 07:52 |
| plovs | hi | 08:53 |
| plovs | ChrisH yes, i'll look at it,thanks | 08:54 |
| plovs | ChrisH, very nice | 08:58 |
| ChrisH | plovs: Thanks. :) I just felt the page would miss something about the more funky features. | 08:58 |
| plovs | ChrisH, ah, the power of wiki | 09:07 |
| ChrisH | plovs: You wrote "work in progress". Is there anything you would miss on that page? | 09:09 |
| plovs | ChrisH, i would like to add ssh-agent stuff to it | 09:13 |
| ChrisH | plovs: what exactly? | 09:14 |
| plovs | how to get ssh-agent to run on login, be asked for the password once and that's it | 09:16 |
| ChrisH | Errr. Do you really miss it? Try scrolling down a little. ;) | 09:16 |
| plovs | duh, i should not imagine i can read 5 windows in the same time, sorry | 09:22 |
| ChrisH | Just wondering. :) | 09:22 |
| plovs | then it's more or less finished | 09:22 |
| plovs | just icons, then it's ok ;-) | 09:22 |
| ChrisH | You are the icon man. | 09:23 |
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