[12:00] what is #debian-mentors? [12:02] sivang: :) [12:02] pl0vs: A channel for mentoring new debian package maintainers. [12:02] pl0vs: Two fellow project guys and I started it after we set up mentors.debian.net two years ago. [12:02] pl0vs: eim (Ivo Marino) and CHS (Christoph Siess) [12:04] ah, so that's you as well, wow, i'm impressed [12:04] ChrisH : was synregy in anyway related to the project apart from sponsering your packages? [12:04] sivang: Nope. [12:05] pl0vs: http://workaround.org/server.jpg [12:06] ah, now i saw the pic full-size i can see the domainname on it :-) [12:06] pl0vs: :) [12:06] how fast is your uplink? [12:07] no ups? [12:07] me too [12:07] 512kbps [12:07] could you remind me what is the black machine for? [12:07] sivang: my TV server ;) [12:07] ah right [12:07] I recalled now :) [12:08] sivang: or do you mean the black pooping machine? [12:08] the asus [12:08] pl0vs: I bougt that old 19" mini-rack from a coworker and moved those two machines into old 19" industry covers :) [12:08] sivang: Yes. :) === sivang is listening to the amazing Scorpions in the background. === WW [~wweckesse@67-138-144-192.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:09] yo WW ! [12:09] yo^2 [12:09] Hey there [12:09] WW, hi [12:09] ChrisH, nice [12:10] ChrisH : what machine are those? I mean the mentors.d.n and t.d.n ? [12:10] SCSI / ide ? [12:10] ChrisH, but no ups needed in germany, here we loose electricity about once a month [12:10] ChrisH: Quick question (maybe): Your DocBook example shows how to create an html file. How would I change that to create a PDF file? [12:10] sivang: Both 2 GHz Athlon. 512 MB RAM. IDE (m.d.n = 80 GB, t.w.o = 200 GB) [12:11] wow [12:11] WW: docbook-utils - Convert Docbook files to other formats (HTML, RTF, PS, man, PDF) [12:11] WW: There is probably a stylesheet in that package. [12:11] WW: Just refer to the PDF XSLT and it should spit out pdf. [12:11] ChrisH: Oh, yeah. _Eventually_ I'll RTFM, but all the acronyms and standards are a bit overwhelming. [12:12] WW: I've tried to keep them to a minimum. But it's confusing, yes. [12:13] WW: did you read pl0vs posting on -doc? [12:13] docbook2man, docbook2pdf, docbook2rtf even! [12:13] ChrisH: I don't mean _your_ docs... those are nice. But I start following links about other stuff, I get lost pretty quick. [12:13] WW: Have you ever worked with LaTeX? [12:13] ChrisH: Yes, lots. [12:13] WW: You probably haven't changed the styles yourself. Same here. :) [12:13] WW: Just use it. Tweak it by setting a few variables. That's it. [12:14] WW: That XSLT is even more funky than XML alone. [12:14] this is the general defenition , of a general language :) === sivang stares at XSLTs confused also [12:15] we should add how to disable timesync to the faq as well [12:15] sivang: XSL is the language. XSLT is a transformation in that language that converts XML => sivangistic [12:15] ChrisH : ah now I get it, finally. [12:16] Interesting: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/resources.html [12:16] sure load much faster then ubuntulinux.org .. :) === sivang is really bugged by the slowness ubuntu.com comes up [12:17] That's not hard. [12:17] Wiki is probably much more CPU-intensive than static pages. [12:20] http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/templates.html [12:20] ChrisH : yes, but moinmoin was about 50% faster [12:20] This seems to be what we are looking for [12:20] ChrisH, maybe you could add the gnome link to the docbook page? [12:20] pl0vs: k [12:21] this are XSLT templates ? [12:21] sivang: No, XML. :) [12:21] Looks like yelp is reading native docbook. So we would not need to convert anything. [12:23] just add an ubuntu style-sheet [12:23] do you guys know any radio stations that work with xmms? [12:24] Okay, guys. It was a long day. Heading to bed. Sleep well (if some of you ever sleep). [12:24] And don't talk behind my back. I read you! ;) [12:24] sleep, i used to know such a word ... [12:24] See ya. [12:24] ChrisH, good night! [12:26] About docbook2pdf... I saved Chris's example as example.xml, and tried running "docbook2pdf example.xml > example.pdf" [12:26] Should that work? [12:26] pl0vs : I install Helix and use it to play this www.106vic.org [12:27] ChrisH : night buddy! [12:27] I get this error: [12:27] jade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported [12:33] Hmmm. The man page for docbook2pdf (which is just a front end for jw) says it can't handle xml, only sgml. [12:37] pl0vs : can you try and add ChrisH's docbook tutorial to the documentation section of the main website? I have ran into problems [12:38] WW, but it still works [12:38] sivang, ok, let me try [12:38] I can't seem to create a pdf file from Chris's "Hello world" example. [12:39] Should I not use encoding="UTF-8"? [12:40] docbook2pdf test.xml gives me a pdf file, and you do need utf8 [12:41] Do you get the "jade" error that I got? [12:41] Actually, I do get a pdf file, but xpdf reports and error when it tries to display it. [12:42] pl0vs : any luck? [12:42] well, i cannot add a howto but i can edit existing ones [12:43] which is funny because some are mine, so i put them there to begin with [12:43] which ones can you edit? [12:43] Smart BootManager Howto [12:45] argghh I wanted to add chris's tutorial there [12:45] well, guess another mail to Lulu [12:45] boy's that's stupid :) I can also edit each and every howto / tutorial there, [12:45] but not add a new one :) [12:49] right. [12:50] so no new howto\s for now [12:50] :( [01:00] you guys into encrypted file-systems? [01:01] Nope. Are you in a HowTo frenzy? :) [01:01] yes [01:01] ;) [01:02] and icons [01:02] HowTo encrypt your icons... [01:02] coool.. [01:02] I still can't get the pdf output to work... Probably doing (or not doing) something stupid here. [01:03] it's always like that with computers [01:03] Yeah, they are so picky about commas and semicolons and stuff. [01:03] yeah, picky they are [01:04] can you make html ? [01:07] I was able to make an html file using the command in Chris's notes (xsltproc), but if I use docbook2html, I get that same jade error. [01:07] WW, does xsltproc -o test.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/docbook.xsl test.xml work? [01:07] Yes, that one works. [01:09] docbook2html test.xml gives me an error message and index.html [01:11] What is the error message? [01:11] jade:/usr/share/sgml/declaration/xml.dcl:31:27:W: characters in the document character set with numbers exceeding 65535 not supported [01:11] Looks familiar. :) [01:13] you have no index.html in the directory where you ran docbook2html? [01:13] I am calling it a night, fellas :) [01:14] sivang, ok, see ya! [01:14] G'night all, c'ya soon! [01:14] nice docbook work went on today, thanks to ChrisH, pl0vs , everybody on the doc team [01:14] See ya. [01:15] pl0vs: Yes, it did create an index.html. [01:15] ah! [01:15] see ya WW [01:15] can you check it? [01:16] I checked it with firefox. It has the same structure as the file created by the xsltproc command, but it numbers the section, and the font is bigger. [01:19] but it is correct? [01:19] that means it works [01:20] pl0vs: Yes, it looks correct. [01:21] docbook2pdf test.xml what does that do, i get an erro but also test.pdf [01:22] I get the same jade error, and a pdf file. However, xpdf is unable to read the pdf file. It gives errors and shows a blank window. [01:24] hmm, here i get an error but xpdf does read the file ok [01:24] Doh! Never mind. I was doing this: docbook2pdf test.xml > test.pdf [01:25] So I was trying to use stdout as the pdf file. [01:26] :) [01:26] so, now it works? [01:26] Yes, I now have a pdf output that looks correct. [01:27] ok! [01:29] Now I have to learn the various ways of hacking stylesheets to get the output just the way I want it. Oh boy. [01:31] I'm taking off. See ya, pl0vs. If I find any cool icons, I'll let you know. :) [01:33] WW, ok, see ya, good night === WW [~wweckesse@67-138-144-192.dsl1.nor.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === ftwig [~rachel@81-86-241-218.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:40] Hi, anybody around? [04:40] ftwig, hi [04:43] hi [04:45] looking for help with writing ubuntu-docs? [04:45] the fromt page of the wiki has gone a bit teche - I did a alternative at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NewFrontPage which was linked to from the front page but the link has been removed;( [04:45] ah, it was you page [04:45] yes - it had agrement on the old wiki but I have not been able to incorporate stuff from new wiki [04:46] my view was the wiki should stand on its own and have the same philosify as newbie frendly as the rest of the project [04:47] yes, well actually several things from your page were used on the new page [04:47] it was a bit from all kinds of pages together [04:47] what do you think of the new page? [04:48] FrontPage, that is [04:48] if I was a newbie I would run away ;) - apart from that fine [04:48] :) [04:48] what do you think is newbie unfriendly? [04:49] the getting started section was to get round this, and thats why it was at the top [04:50] also I had a nice contence section whitch was auto generated in moin but it cant be done in zwiki;( [04:51] yes, still fighting with the admins on that one [[TableOfContents] ] [04:51] the canonical wanted alphabetical order [04:53] ?alph order [04:53] and the real first page has getting ubuntu on it http://www.ubuntulinux.org [04:53] Community, Documentation, Policies & Procedures etc [04:54] I also think the wili should be moin as thats a lot easier to learn. Problem with havein RsTxt is people will use it and scare away people [04:55] it is still possible to use moin, and yes i would have preferred just moin as well [04:55] especially 1.3 [04:55] but having one site is easier for the admins [04:55] As I said I think the wiki should stand on its own - that way a total site can be developed [04:56] the wiki is only used as a scratchpad, all finished docs will be taken out and moved in the support-area [04:56] are you saying we cant turn off RsTxt in the wiki section only [04:57] problem with moving stuff off the wiki is it makes it more difficult to develop in [04:57] no, some writers prefer ReST over moin (i for one) [04:58] the stuff that is moved will aso be put in yelp [04:58] so it will be installed on the desktop [04:58] we move it to docbook [04:58] so people without network still have docs [04:58] but surly accessebility in terms of learning markup is of prime importance in wiki. If some of it is in ReST it may scare off some people [04:59] BTW the alpha order on the front page would REALLY suck. The stuff new users need should be at top [04:59] i have been looking at who actually uses the wiki to write, i think hjaving to register is a bigger hurdle the the markup [05:00] then the markup [05:00] not if you use other wiki and know moin ;) [05:02] we'll see, if moin support becomes better maybe we will remove ReST, until then we will have mixed [05:02] OK - anyway must go to bed [05:02] and about the frontpage, the order needs to be improved [05:02] ok, thanks for dropping by! [05:03] c ya! [05:03] what I would really love is someone to do a increasing res in X - I keep on doing installs and cant get above 1024;( [05:03] nite === ftwig [~rachel@81-86-241-218.dsl.pipex.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === plovs [~plovs@62.84.21.44] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:36] plovs: moin... [10:36] hi! [10:37] he do you know: how to make a service stop forever without installing it [10:37] chmod -x? [10:38] or update-rc.d [10:38] or both? [10:39] i am updating https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuBootupHowto, and i do not know if it is correct [10:58] plovs: update-rc.d servicename remove [10:58] plovs: see "man update-rc.d" [10:58] ChrisH, yes, i did, but do they *stay* away? or do they get reinstalled [10:59] sb on the m'list said so [10:59] but what i wrote in the howto is what i do [11:03] Reinstalled? You mean if the service gets registered in the rc2.d when you "apt-get --reinstall install ..."? [11:07] when the service gets updaed i mean [11:07] IMHO it will stay disabled. [11:10] http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s-sysvinit [11:10] 9.3.2 [11:11] Though it's not 100% clear. [11:14] ChrisH, thanks === trickie [~trickie@203-173-44-76.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:03] trickie: hi [12:03] hello [12:04] i posted earlier on the developers list asking where i can start to help out on ubuntu [12:04] thought docs is a good start [12:06] would i find things to do for documentation on bugzilla? [12:06] trickie, not yet [12:07] trickie, what are your interests? [12:10] well i do quite a bit of web development... also mono and gtk [12:10] i wouldn't mind learning abit about ubuntu as whole... like some of the processes involved with releasing a distro [12:11] trickie: I'm not long in the project either. The biggest problem is that even if there are rules they are hardly documented. [12:11] i also enjoy programming with python [12:12] true [12:12] i don't know much about debian so i gather that puts me behind in knowing a great deal about ubuntu [12:13] trickie: My first feeling when I read the main page was "Ubuntu is maintained by a small number of hand-picked debian developers". Sounded a bit elitist. I wasn't sure if I wanted to contribute. But actually the structure are a hell better than what's partly happening in Debian. [12:13] trickie: Unless you want to maintain your own packages (as they are still taken from Debian) you are probably free to contribute to every part of Ubuntu. [12:14] so like the mailing lists, wiki that sort of thing? [12:15] bug fixes etc? [12:17] There is just one bug report in the bugzilla regarding documentation. [12:17] for docs that are "open" you might check: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo [12:17] I guess most of what needs to be done will be discussed here. [12:17] ok thanks [12:17] ChrisH, we just gor the bugzilla entry, so we're not yet used to it [12:19] ah [12:24] well... time for bed... thanks for your help... i'll be around again! === sivang [~sivan@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:47] howdy all [03:49] ChrisH , around? [03:52] sivang: yes... in a minute [03:54] ah no prob [03:54] I see we've got ourselves a new channel op :) [03:54] he's here all the time === ChrisH is not an op [04:05] sivang: back... my wife wanted to have footprints of our son in cement - what a mess [04:05] wow! He's a real celeberity [04:05] :) [04:05] like movie starts in hollywoord [04:07] Just that blowing up out kitchen with TNT wouldn't make a greater mess. :) [04:07] hahaha [04:07] well, you should call out the cleaning lady and have her fix the kitchen back [04:07] :) [04:16] ChrisH : are you still using sarge / sid ? [04:17] sivang: yes, on my main pc [04:18] I was wondering, I can't seem to make sound work on my inspiron 8200 laptop, [04:18] and Ubuntu , well made me little unable by means of configuration..:) [04:18] do you remember how to set up sound using alsa in sarge? [04:18] I am trying to use alsaconf, [04:18] it appears to be detecting the hardware but it doesn't work [04:24] sivang: I didn't use alsaconf finally as it was too confusing. [04:24] well yes, [04:24] it's pretty much that way - you never know really what goes on [04:24] so , you used manual modprobe ? [04:25] sivang: In kernel 2.4 I use OSS and in 2.6 I switched to alsa. The kernel did it all. [04:26] sivang: then I check "lspci" which modules I needed... modprobe... bingo [04:26] problem is, I already tried many things using 'modconf' and I might be already having oss colliding with alsa [04:27] darn.. [04:28] in 2.6, is /dev/dsp still used? [04:28] sivang: I'd be curious how to make my Sid installation auto-detect the hardware just like ubuntu and the new sarge installer does. [04:28] (I reckon GNOME is trying to find it ) [04:28] the new sarge installer does that? [04:28] sivang: At least /dev/dsp enabled apps work in ubuntu and the artsd. (like xgalaga) I didn't get that to work in KDE. [04:29] Well, I'm not much of a KDE user anymore, so I guess I don't care about it. [04:31] sivang: Well... I installed hotplug and discover. But that didn't help it. [04:32] ah right [04:32] I should try those, although I think discover had alredy been installed. [04:32] sivang: I'm currently trying the gnome 2.6 (as in Sid) but it has flaws... the file requester is making me mad for example. [04:32] let's se [04:33] I just wanted to add a "home" symbol to the panel that should open my home directory. worked with nautils after a while. Then I wanted to give it a decent icon - not a chance. I chose /usr/share/pixmaps but whenever I clicked on "Open" nothing happened because the file requester wanted to open a file - not a directory. [04:33] And I even don't want to talk about "spatial views". The first thing I did was switching back to the old behavior. [04:34] ok, hotplug already installed. [04:34] I really like Gnome (over fvwm2 or fluxbox) but KDE is much more integrated. [04:34] discover I just did [04:34] teu [04:34] true [04:34] anyway, I'll go for a reboot hopefully all the redundent OSS modules would get off [04:34] :) [04:35] beb [04:35] brb === sivang [~sivan@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === asw [~Alexander@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:36] back === smurfix [~smurfix@smurfix.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:35] Anybody know how to embed WikiLinks into ReST documents? [07:35] (Specifically, links with slashes in them) [07:36] smurfix: Try [Wiki/Link] [07:39] Ah, it displays the brackets only as long as the page doesn't exist. Very clever ^w confusing, that. [07:40] smurfix: :) [07:42] God... is the Wiki sleeping? It takes ages to commit changes. [07:52] plovs: I have added some content to the SSHHowto Wiki page. Like to review it? [08:53] hi [08:54] ChrisH yes, i'll look at it,thanks [08:58] ChrisH, very nice [08:58] plovs: Thanks. :) I just felt the page would miss something about the more funky features. [09:07] ChrisH, ah, the power of wiki [09:09] plovs: You wrote "work in progress". Is there anything you would miss on that page? [09:13] ChrisH, i would like to add ssh-agent stuff to it [09:14] plovs: what exactly? [09:16] how to get ssh-agent to run on login, be asked for the password once and that's it [09:16] Errr. Do you really miss it? Try scrolling down a little. ;) [09:22] duh, i should not imagine i can read 5 windows in the same time, sorry [09:22] Just wondering. :) [09:22] then it's more or less finished [09:22] just icons, then it's ok ;-) [09:23] You are the icon man. === __randy__ [~randy@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc