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ChrisHMorning guys... <yawn>07:20
ChrisHOh, well, my son has cancelled my night after 5 hours. What a great start into a new week. :) Let's install Ubuntu on my work PC then. At least something useful to do.07:21
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volvoguyhowdy all08:40
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://irclog.workaround.org
=== Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by ChrisH at Sat Nov 6 18:50:17 2004
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=== ChrisH is out for lunch
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ChrisHsivang: power outage?11:21
sivangsomething like that :)11:21
sivangI am in the uni's lib,11:21
sivangpower went down,11:21
sivangmachines went down,11:21
sivangadmin unavailable11:21
sivangnow it's back up and nobody;s knowns why11:22
sivangoh well, till next time (tm) :)11:22
ChrisHsivang: I'll be off for lunch in a minute. trickie and I would like to start with an experimental repository of docbook with an xhtml automaker. Read the post?11:22
sivangI read your post,11:23
sivangI wasn't sure who trickie is11:23
sivangI tried to respond when power went off,11:23
sivangone word for that would be11:23
sivangI might be interested in the setting up hlep, or just bug you guys so I could learn some more server knowhow on the way11:24
ChrisHsivang: Okay. Let's see if we all like it.11:24
ChrisHsivang: hlep?11:24
sivangif i can help on the server setup, amdin, config etc.11:24
ChrisHsivang: ah, ok :)11:25
ChrisHsivang: I'd start with a simple SVN repository on mentors.debian.net and we all can learn how it would work. I'm currently only using SVN for my own projects.11:25
sivangChrisH : what about using arch?11:29
sivangChrisH : so later it would be easier to incorporate our repository with canonical's ?11:30
ChrisHsivang: Haven't used arch yet. Haven't even heard of it before a few days ago.11:30
ChrisHsivang: But of course i'm willing to learn.11:31
sivangChrisH : ok, I will see what can be found on Bazzar's site at canonical's11:35
sivangas well as finishing my tutorial in docbook :)11:35
=== ChrisH will take a look at Arch after lunch
sivangBon Appetit!11:36
plovs_workhi guys12:21
sivanghey plovs12:21
sivanghow you been?12:21
plovs_workgood, busy today12:21
sivangin what? doc related?12:23
plovs_worksivang, how did your install go?12:27
plovs_workhave to make a reboot, brb12:28
sivangplovs_work : install?12:30
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sivangChrisH : here?01:09
ChrisHsivang: yow... struggling with the damn Novell server01:12
sivangok, ttl then - I'm working on the main site's team page01:13
ChrisHsivang: I'm listening. :)01:16
ChrisHCool. I have my name on the page. I'm famous! Yahoo! ;)01:31
sivangstill working in it..Would appriciate spellchecks and comments afterwards.01:34
ChrisHsivang: My name is correct. Everything else is irrelevant. ;)01:35
sivangyeah! ChrsH for world domination!01:36
ChrisHHmmm. It looks like Arch is only used for the dpkg repository for the maintainers. Other teams seem to use cvs or svn as they like. Strange.01:46
plovs_worksivang, nice work, the team page01:47
ChrisHhornbeck: How far did you get regarding the Bazaar repository? I'm starting to get confused what we will be using.01:47
plovs_workan utter lack of icons is a little disquieting, but for the rest it's ok01:48
plovs_worksivang, and maybe put the names in alphabetical order01:48
plovs_worksivang, you can change your name to aaasivang if you want ;)01:49
plovs_workChrisH, hornbeck is asleep, he lives on the wrong site of the planet01:49
=== sivang used to think hornbeck's side is the right side of the planet
sivangI now know the europ rules :)01:50
ChrisHhornbeck: WAKE UP!01:50
sivanghas anybody seen hornbeck's photo on his personal page?01:51
plovs_workhahaha, now i have01:53
plovs_workoeps, he might read the blog ;)01:53
ChrisHlol :)01:53
plovs_workhe looks just like my brother, though01:55
plovs_workis it just me or are things a *lot* faster today?01:57
ChrisHI also thought that.01:58
sivangon the wiki ?01:59
ChrisHYes. I saved the SSH Wiki page yesterday and it took a whole minute to save!02:00
=== mercurus [~mercurus@PIPP-p-144-134-201-220.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
ChrisHHi, mercurus 02:01
sivangwelcome mercurus.02:01
plovs_workmercurus, hi02:01
=== plovs_work things we sound like the three stooges
=== plovs_work can't spell
=== sivang agrees
=== sivang finds it funny how much new people get here, considering the new foastering page is not ready yet.
=== ChrisH wonders if there is an auto-greet script for irssi
mercurusChrisH: a multitude I would imagine ...02:02
mercurusIf I wanted to help out "documentally" where would I be most useful ?02:03
ChrisHmercurus: Wouldn't be very personal though. :)02:03
plovs_workChrisH, i would like one as well, and then run it in #ubuntu, how long would it take to get kicked?02:03
ChrisHmercurus: A cappuccino, please. Extra sugar. Thanks. ;)02:03
ChrisHplovs_work: Approximately 2 seconds longer than one of the ops seeing that.02:04
mercurusChrisH: it would be easy to perlify ... regex for JOIN, and then extract the username from that string ... all inside a loop that prints out the username in a standard greeting ...02:04
plovs_workmercurus, look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo02:04
sivangah! a perl munk ?02:05
mercurussivang: I can conceptualise ... coding it is another thing entirely :)02:05
mercurusI have dabbled ...02:05
sivangmercurus : sounds like you're on the right track..02:05
plovs_workChrisH, sivang, i added pages that need editing on that page, if you run into something maybe you can also add it there02:06
plovs_workmercurus, you any good at cron stuff?02:07
ChrisHplovs_work: sure. Which?02:07
mercurusunfortunately I've been training my mind not to deal with absolutes, and I never really mastered the regex02:07
mercurusplovs_work: I've never used cron :(02:07
mercurusI should learn though ...02:07
plovs_workmercurus, then you'll love the cron page as soon as it is written02:07
plovs_workChrisH, any page, you think is unfinished02:08
plovs_workChrisH, that is anything except the ssh-page :)02:08
mercurusjolly good ... I posted a HOWTO of sorts to the Forums ... is there someone allocated to the Multimedia HOWTO ?02:08
ChrisHplovs_work: Nah, the SSH page still lacks some flash applets. I'm on it. ;)02:09
sivangmorning fellow earthling02:15
hornbeckhow is everything this morning?02:15
sivangPretty fine , I guess.02:15
hornbeckthats good02:15
sivangnice to see your photo on the wiki02:15
hornbeckyou like that?02:15
hornbeckI am one sexy guy02:15
mercuruscould I port the Multimedia HOWTO being developed on the unofficial forums across to the Wiki ?02:15
sivangYes, in a wizard of ozz kind of way :) you have a soccer's bird02:16
sivangmy spelling sucks today02:16
hornbecknever knew I had a soccer's bird :-p[02:16
sivanghow do you spell the word for a magician?02:16
hornbeckmercurus: I don't see why not02:17
sivangthe one that starts with s02:17
hornbecksorceror I think02:17
hornbeckyust google it02:17
sivangyes, dict says this is it02:17
hornbeckwish my dict talked02:18
sivangdo you have permanet pireced ears?or are thse just magnetic earings?02:18
sivangmaybe it can,02:18
hornbeckI used to have 1/2 inch holes in my ears02:18
sivangthere a plantora of text to speech synthiziers around for linux02:18
hornbeckthat photo is about a year old02:19
sivangthere might need some work to be done to make it use it02:19
sivanghow's the book going?02:19
hornbeckI did not work on it at all this weekend02:19
hornbeckI just finished repairing a roof and fixing a water heater02:20
hornbeckbut today I am going to start compiling stuff from the wiki and see how much is needed to write from scratch02:20
sivangoh that damn water heater..02:20
hornbeckthe whole weekend story is there02:21
=== sivang hates them. wished they could "just work"
sivangbtw, it's nice having a face you're talking to, instead of just a nick02:21
=== sivang would shortly add his photo
hornbeckI would not know02:21
hornbeckok, than I will know who I am talking to02:21
hornbeckis ChrisH around?02:22
sivangI think so02:22
sivangwe want to dobookize the FAQ, what do you think/02:23
hornbeckI posted to the list saying I support it02:23
hornbeckI am for docbook everything02:23
sivangDocBook is so neat, I think we need to streamline all our authoring on it02:23
sivangme too02:23
hornbeckI hate that we are not working on offline docs02:23
hornbeckthat is why I started this book02:23
hornbeckto give us some offline docs02:24
sivangwell, I have already started working on my StartingTheJOurney , besides maintaining the wiki and working on the main documentation page.02:24
hornbeckdo you know if ChrisH has started this repository?02:25
ChrisHhornbeck: errr. yes.02:25
sivangwell here he is02:25
=== ChrisH 's stomach couldn't cope with the lunch :(
hornbeckChrisH: did you start the repository you talked about on the list02:26
=== hornbeck hopes not
ChrisHhornbeck: Not very much. :)02:26
sivangWe can use ChrisH's infrastructure for this,02:26
ChrisHhornbeck: Have you worked on it? I ready what you wanted to do from the meeting. Hard nearly forgotten it. :)02:26
hornbeckI bought a faster line, static ip's, new server, everything so we can set up repositories for the doc team02:27
sivangas he has already quite some of it :)02:27
ChrisHhornbeck: I have 512 kbps, statis IPs, own DNS (forward and reverse), web server and repository already installed :)02:27
hornbeckI just spent almost a grand to get this all started :-)02:27
ChrisHhornbeck: And if we really need it I could put a server in the computer room at my fellow ISP if we needed 100 Mbps. :)02:27
hornbeckmine is a 3M line02:27
ChrisHhornbeck: Damn. You win. ;)02:28
sivanghornbeck : wow, this must have caused a bit.02:28
ChrisHhornbeck: What kind of repository is it?02:28
hornbeckwhat might be nice is some mirroring02:28
sivangwe could start our own elite distro :)02:28
hornbeckI have not set anything up yet02:28
hornbeckbut if you would like to help me :-)02:28
ChrisHhornbeck: Although we probably won't need much bandwidth for it, will we?02:29
=== sivang is in for arch setup and learning as we go
sivangnot at the start,02:29
sivangbut as soon as freshmeat talks about us02:29
sivangwe would :)02:29
hornbeckhonestly, I have no experiance setting up repositories, but I did this so the doc team would have something and so I could host my own blog server02:29
hornbeckI would like to be able to host unofficial Ubuntu packages also02:30
ChrisHsivang: I have read a bit about arch. And I wonder why they are not using subversion. Seems like Arch was started the same time subversion was launched. Just that Subversion looks more powerful and comprehensive to me. But, heck...02:30
mercurushmm ... can I do bulletted lists in Moin, and if so, how ?02:30
sivangI am fine with people saying subversion is better,02:30
ChrisHhornbeck: Which repository software do you intend to use?02:30
hornbeckChrisH: would you be willing to help me set this all up02:30
ChrisHhornbeck: Sure.02:30
sivangshould we use arch just to make canonical able to merge our repo easily?02:31
hornbeckactually, we decided in the meeting to try out SVN and if it did not work to try others02:31
sivangwhat do people think?02:31
hornbeckthe topic of Bazzar was raised02:31
hornbeckbut the dev has not got back to me02:31
ChrisHThe package maintainers seem so use arch for the packages because there are tools for that. But there are tools for cvs and svn as well.02:31
hornbeckI really like cvs02:32
hornbeckbut not many others do02:32
ChrisHBazzar is more a web forum with upload features than a repository to me. I think we would be better off with svn or arch.02:32
ChrisHhornbeck: CVS has some flaws. I was used to it, too. But SVN isn't that different.02:32
sivangChrisH : but you just said svn looks more comprehensive then arch02:32
hornbeckwell I bought this stuff for it to be used by our community, and I hope it gets good use02:32
ChrisHsivang: IMHO yes.02:32
plovs_workhornbeck, goodmorning02:32
hornbeckgood morning plovs02:32
ChrisHhornbeck: Got a few minutes to get it running?02:33
hornbecknot all set up yet02:33
ChrisHhornbeck: ok02:33
hornbeckthe line comes in today02:33
plovs_workhornbeck, got a firewall already?02:33
ChrisHhornbeck: 3 Mbps is pretty impressive02:33
hornbeckthe server is here02:33
hornbeckplovs yes firewall in place02:33
sivangwhich brand / hardware? (hardware savy)02:33
plovs_workhornbeck, what did you use, in the end?02:33
hornbeckplovs monowall02:34
hornbeckChrisH, that was the fastest I could get before T102:34
hornbeckIf this takes to much bandwidth, I will upgrade to T102:35
plovs_workany of you guys use a windows desktop?02:35
mercurus*cough* Can I do bulletted lists in Moin, and if so, how ?02:35
hornbeckplovs: my wife does02:36
hornbeckso I have one next to me02:36
mercurusI'm new to Wikis generally02:36
plovs_workmercurus, <space>*<space>twertwrter02:37
mercurusthank you :)02:37
plovs_worki'll add it to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto02:37
hornbeckanyone tried out the Novell Desktop yet?02:37
plovs_workhornbeck, is there something like tomboy for windows?02:38
hornbeckplovs: i don't know02:39
hornbeckI don't use windows but I was saying I have access to one if you needed me to02:39
ChrisHhornbeck: btw: I hope you don't mind my proposal on -doc. I didn't mean to rush over you. It's not that important where the repository will be located.02:40
hornbeckChrisH: not at all, I just hope we can work together on this :-)02:40
ChrisHhornbeck: We will.02:40
hornbeckI would be all the willing to let you help in whatever way with this server02:40
hornbeck"for the people, by the people"02:41
ChrisHhornbeck: Do you have access to DNS zones? Just that we can give the server a name instead of an IP.02:41
hornbeckChrisH, I am not aware of any02:41
ChrisHhornbeck: I could assign something like doc.workaround.org if you like.02:42
hornbeckthat would work02:42
ChrisHhornbeck: Do you have an IP already?02:42
hornbeckI am checking right now02:43
mercurusis there a wiki editing WYSIWYG editor available for Ubuntu, if so, which repository, and what is it called ?02:43
hornbeckChrisH: I am calling to get my ip's02:44
ChrisHhornbeck: You could use the same name both for SVN access (over SSH I propose) and for an Apache virtual host containing the auto-generated HTML output.02:44
plovs_workmercurus, no such thing, but you'll get the hang of it soon, btw look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats for Multimedia stuff as well02:47
hornbeckman it takes forever to get these people on the line02:47
ChrisHmercurus: compared to DocBook the Wiki format is really easy ;)02:47
mercurusplovs_work: I was just going to link to that one, but it can be amended \ incorporated appropriately02:47
plovs_workmercurus, what you want02:48
mercurushow do I link to anchors ? ie. I've done a contents list ... how do I link from the contents list to individual items ?02:48
mercurus(within the same page)02:48
plovs_workmercurus, you can ask the others here as well, but take a look at ReST as well, before you type a lot of stuff02:48
plovs_workmercurus, moin only works for simple pages atm02:49
mercurusReST is the preferred Wiki-markup ?02:49
mercurusand how do I do lists, and anchor links in ReST ?02:51
plovs_workmercurus you can copy a template from http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto (in moin or ReST), but i prefer ReST02:51
plovs_workanchor links: you make some sentence, and link to it like: `you make some sentence`_02:52
mercurusplovs_work: aye, i've got that page open ... but I'm struggling to nest bulletted lists02:52
plovs_worki'll put it in, then reload the page brb02:52
ChrisHhornbeck: Which ISP is that? AOL?02:54
hornbeckthe telephone company02:54
ChrisHhornbeck: AT&T?02:54
ChrisHhornbeck: uh huh02:54
hornbeckI am on hold right now02:55
plovs_workmercurus, ok, reload http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto02:56
ChrisH... please hold the line ... we will connect you as soon as possible ... the next free supporter will deal with you ...02:56
hornbeckI have someone now02:58
plovs_workmercurus, let me know if the examples in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto are any good and what  can be done to improve the page02:59
sivangmain site is slow...03:03
sivangsaving is  a pain03:03
plovs_workdid you guys see the "Reliable file systems"-thread, would be nice to have a page about file-systems03:04
plovs_workor would it end up like vim-emacs?03:04
=== mercurus [~mercurus@PIPP-p-144-134-201-75.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
plovs_workadded it to: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo03:07
mercurusplovs_work: thank you :) I found the ReST quick reference ... but that's a good start :)03:12
plovs_workmercurus, look at the ReST page as well03:13
mercurusI am ... I might post a preliminary outline and get some comments03:15
mercurusthe absence of closing tags is making my life interesting03:16
sivanghey, I happen to like closing tags very much :)03:16
mercurussivang: likewise, that's the issue ... there aren't any ... are there ?03:16
mercurushmm ...03:16
mercurusSystem Message: ERROR/3 (<string>, line 50)03:16
mercurusUnexpected indentation.03:16
mercurusoops :p03:16
plovs_workmercurus, there *should* be03:17
mercurusplovs_work: how/where ?03:17
sivangin rest? I don't know. in docbook on ther other hand..03:17
plovs_workmercurus what page are you working on03:18
plovs_workChrisH, did you see http://www.koders.com ?03:18
mercurusI've just saved it ... its https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MultimediaHOWTO03:19
aswsivang: hey! (sorry about the six hour delay.) 03:20
mercuruswhat have I done wrong ..?03:20
ChrisHplovs_work: funky :)03:21
plovs_workmercurus, can i edit it?03:22
plovs_workChrisH, cool he?03:22
mercurusplovs_work: sure, just show me what I did wrong ...03:22
plovs_workmercurus, ok03:22
sivangasw : that's cool03:23
=== hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc
plovs_workmercurus, check it out, you just needed a bunch of empty lines03:24
plovs_workmercurus, now it's ok03:24
hornbeckcan someone try to ping a ip03:24
hornbeckhold on03:25
hornbeckthere you go03:25
plovs_workhornbeck, nor pinging, nor nmapping03:25
hornbeckthats what I though03:26
hornbeckI have to make a new router03:26
=== plovs_work changed his head: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AlexanderPoslavsky
plovs_workhornbeck, why a new router, just add a route in monowall03:27
mercurusplovs_work: so ... what did I do wrong ?03:27
hornbeckplovs: nice03:27
hornbeckhow did you do the whole hackergotchi thing03:27
plovs_workmercurus, you need an empty line after ============ and * something03:28
plovs_workhornbeck, gimp03:28
aswsivang: hi all.  Things are a little crazy for me but I'm following the doc team's progress as best I can and will try to attend (part) of the Dec. community meeting in Barcelona.  I'll definitely put up a page highlighting the parts of Ubuntu that are especially attractive for scientists.   03:28
plovs_workhornbeck, cut out my head, added shadow, resized, done03:29
ChrisHhornbeck: ok03:29
plovs_workhornbeck, the colors are not very good but wel...03:29
plovs_workmercurus, ok?03:29
hornbeckanyone know any good router distro's?03:29
plovs_workhornbeck, monowall03:29
ChrisHhornbeck: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=doc.workaround.org&type=A03:29
hornbeckplovs: does monowall work as a router?03:30
plovs_workif you tell it to03:30
ChrisHhornbeck: yes. Works great. Have it running in a subsidiary here.03:31
hornbeckI guess I will have to look into that right now03:31
ChrisHhornbeck: cool. sbc has entered your name in the whois information of the network range. :)03:32
ChrisHhornbeck: sounds like they know what they are doing03:32
hornbeckthats good03:32
hornbecknow I just have to get a router up and running to get the ip's to come to me :-)03:32
ChrisHhornbeck: Having static IPs is really fun. There are dozens of service that are fun insecuring the network with. :)03:34
hornbeckwell this is going to be another fun learning curve03:34
hornbeckI love figuring things out03:34
plovs_workhornbeck, i suppose youneed http://www.m0n0.ch/wall/docbook/firewall-inbound-nat.html03:35
sivanganybody, just added the doc team to the main team pages,03:35
sivangcomments, flame etc welcome03:35
plovs_worksivang, icons, flash movies?03:36
hornbeckplovs: yes that looks good03:36
=== sivang is for the minimalistic approach in webpages
plovs_worksivang, despite that shortcoming, i think it looks really good03:37
sivangI was more referring to weather the content looks reasonable03:37
sivangand not newbie too confusing.03:38
sivangI took the "current work" and "how to help" and merged those to "I want to help!"03:38
plovs_workYou might find this mediums also useful in this regard > needs to be *these*03:38
plovs_workmedia ?03:39
ChrisHsivang: put portraits of each of us online. That will keep people from contacing us. :)03:39
plovs_workmaybe: you might find these links usefull: ????03:39
plovs_workDocumentatino Team Meetings , discussing future goal and planning, freenode IRC #ubuntu-meeting. typo in documentation03:40
sivangdo we have plovs_work in doc team? I don't know him at all...ANybody know who he is ? :)03:41
sivangand if he's at work, how can he have complains at all?? :))03:41
hornbeckwell I am off to try and get this to work03:41
hornbeckI will keep everyone updated03:41
plovs_worksivang, :-)03:42
sivangalex, those are noted - I will fix those, thanks for the input :)03:43
mercurusplovs_work: cheers for that ... what eas causing the problem ? absence of spacing ?03:45
plovs_workmercurus, look at the example http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto, you'll see lots of empty lines, they *have* to be there03:49
mercurusbloody Python :p03:49
sivangok, I have to go now. Catch you all later people.03:51
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plovsaargh, i hosed my irssi config04:32
ChrisHplovs: Backup rules. :)04:51
=== sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc
ChrisHsivang: elkhouse.de? :)04:59
sivangyeah :)05:00
sivangthanks to a very dear fellow of mine, wizard of automatic media and security policy in warty - Martin Pitt05:01
ChrisHsivang: You probably don't need another ISP. You need a bag of emergency batteries.05:01
sivangyes I do :)05:02
sivangbut having you and him now, I am more than satified with my internet presence by now :)05:02
sivangmust get my UPS soon05:03
ChrisHsivang: If you bought a 2000 km power cable you could plug it into my garden wall socket.05:03
mercurusthis wiki language is SOOOO inefficient.05:04
ChrisHmercurus: You should try DocBook. It will make you love wiki.05:04
mercurusChrisH: at least DocBook is local, and you don't have to wait for the page to reload each time05:05
ChrisHThat's right. The Wiki is darn slow at the moment.05:05
sivangChrisH : yes, I would :)05:07
ChrisHPhew. I have converted KDE->Gnome, Tree->Spatial and root->sudo. And it works much better. :)05:09
sivangUh, seems like someone here likes Ubuntu05:10
ChrisHNah, I hated. I'll leave the project. Good bye.05:10
sivangplease don't follow sparkes path..05:11
sivangChrisH : you still there?05:12
ChrisHsivang: No, I left.05:13
sivangnow really 05:13
ChrisHsivang: Seriously *not*. ;)05:13
=== sivang is a bit scared by ChrisH harsh sense of humor :)
=== ChrisH will never follow the path to the dark side (tm)
sivangever heared of Pink Floyd ?05:14
sivangand scorpions?05:14
sivangthey are half germen, half russian or something?05:14
sivangI really like Klaus Nin...something , don't recall his last name05:14
ChrisHScorpions are german IIRC. Pink Floyd? No idea.05:14
sivangpink are british05:15
mercurushmm ... found a bug already.05:15
sivangScorpions, on my music groups hall of fame. I play some 4 very nice hits of them on the guitar.05:15
sivangmercurus : how,where,when ? :)05:15
sivangany news since I left?05:21
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sivangHi __randy, and welcome to the fine channel for Ubuntu Documentation Team.05:21
sivanghave you looked at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/documentation already? :)05:22
ChrisH__randy__: Don't worry about sivang. He is just a welcome bot. :)05:22
=== sivang wishes he had the accuracy and the long term, non volaitle memory.
sivangof a bot.05:23
sivangI guess __randy got scared. was I to direct?05:34
ChrisHPerhaps __randy__ is a bot?05:35
__randy__ChrisH, no just looking over the teams page05:36
ChrisHOkay... I'm going home and will continue with docbook.05:36
ChrisH__randy__: ah, okay :)05:36
sivanggreat ChrisH, lemme know what new when you have any05:37
__randy__sivang, actually the link was quite helpfull the wiki isn't the easiest thing to navigate05:37
sivangmusic to my ears05:37
sivangalthough I might have some spelling mistakes and other faults on that new team page05:38
__randy__and I'm thinking about something I might be able to help with05:38
ChrisH__randy__: Help is needed in fixing Wiki entries. Many pages are in bad shape and would need some going-over.05:40
__randy__Do you know if there would be interest in and OpenAfs howto?05:40
ChrisHNo personal interest. But why not. If you know anything about it.05:45
sivangwhat is it?05:52
__randy__Network File and Authentication system that my school uses05:54
__randy__I setup it up on a Ubuntu machine as a test station in our computer lab05:54
sivangthis is something standard to the kernel? or is userspace utils?06:04
__randy__It's a kernel module with some userspace utils06:05
__randy__and it plugs into pam to06:05
sivangyou go ahead and have the howto done, I am sure many people could be using it, or just feeling lucky when they need it and find it ready :)06:14
__randy__sivang,  I'll have it done and in docbook by the end of the week hopefully06:15
sivangno rush, this is all voulenteering work, take you time :) I appriciate your help06:17
__randy__sivang, it shouldn't be all that long I just have to make sure that I don't screw up any of the pam steps06:19
sivangofcourse. thank you06:19
ChrisHYes... another convert. :) A coworker asked me if I could help him install Debian on his PC. He has no experience with Linux and would like to get a start. Took my Ubuntu-CD and 15 minutes and now he's happy. :)06:37
ChrisHHmmm. If only NIS would work.07:29
luluhey guys - before i go - does anyone know how to get to a list of orphaned pages on the ZWIKI?07:30
ChrisHlulu: no idea07:31
luluChrisH: me neither! :o) perhaps we should add it to the wiki wish list!07:32
lulunight all!07:32
ChrisHlulu: nite07:32
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plovsChrisH, you have any experience with NIS?08:13
ChrisHplovs: yes...08:14
ChrisHplovs: And I even just gained more experience.08:14
ChrisHplovs: ...on how to completely screw my system. :)08:14
ChrisHplovs: In intended to write a Wiki article about it. But it's tricky moving the sudo user to NIS.08:15
sivangwhat do you need nis for?08:19
plovsChrisH, I have seen questions on the list and in #ubuntu about it so it is popular08:19
sivangwhat are you up to plovs?08:20
ChrisHsivang: I have two PCs (wife's and mine), the notebook (mine) and another notebook (from work) in my network. And the file server itself (torf). It's a mess maintaining my user accounts on all systems locally.08:20
sivang(today, that is)08:20
plovsChrisH, Afterwards I would like a samba authentication thing as well (for Active Directory)08:20
ChrisHplovs: yuk... AD?08:20
plovsi really like it actually, it actually works (here)08:20
sivangplovs : My freind from NYC is on brink of tryin logging into a domain controller, he now working on setting wireless08:21
plovsbesides the reguler MS clumsiness of the thing08:21
sivangplovs : what do you mean in samba authentication?08:21
plovslogin into a domain controller from linux?08:21
plovsusing a samba box as DC08:21
plovsfor our second network08:22
sivangok, this I can test myself , if you like, but only tommorow08:22
plovsno problem08:22
=== sivang needs to maintain some sort of a todo list, so he won't forget all the things he promises to do
plovswe just came home from guest, and leave agin, to hang out with friends, so no more comp for me08:22
plovssivang, tomboy!08:22
plovsor put it on your homepage in the wiki08:23
plovsok, cu later!08:23
sivangbye plovs08:25
sivangahhhheerrhrhrh wiki is dead slow..08:27
ChrisHIndeed. But in the morning (here) it seem to be faster. Looks like the machine does not provide enough power.08:28
sivangthis is really a problem for our wiki working lovers08:32
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sivanghey __randy__, any reason your nick looks like a protected method in python?09:00
sivangChrisH : you still here?09:25
ChrisHsivang: Jau.09:26
sivangJau ?09:26
ChrisHGerman for "Yop". :)09:26
ChrisHWhich in turn is geek for "Yes".09:26
sivangThere is a geek dialect of germen?09:27
ChrisHNah, not really. But "Jau" (pronounced "Yao") is a typical short word when picking up the phone.09:28
ChrisHAn alternative would be "Huh?" or "Friend or Wife?"09:28
sivangAh! That sounds familiar when I listened to my late grandmother, answering my mom's naggs - "Yao! Yao! Yao!"09:30
sivangshe spoke yeddish, germen, hungerian09:31
sivangI just read it pronouncing the J09:31
ChrisHYou will probably not find it in an official dictionary.09:34
sivangI guess not. Yeddish itself is somewhat a gibrish mixture of germen,bits of hebrew and some other I think09:45
ChrisHYes, I know. It's the more or less native language of the jews who lived in germany during that evil period 60 years ago.09:57
sivangJust noticed your email about sudo on devel,10:04
sivangyou're not comfortable with the sudo concept in ubuntu? :)10:04
ChrisHWho said that? :)10:06
ChrisHThose power-outages start to become funny. :)10:08
ChrisHplovs: Hi, Alex...10:09
plovsso, NIS and sudo do not mix?10:09
ChrisHLet's say: make sure you have other uid, gids and user names on the NIS than on the local system.10:09
ChrisHI'll Wiki that. :)10:10
plovsthat would be nice, i would like to start using NIS or ldap but a howto would be nice10:10
ChrisHI can just verify it for the client side actually. It's been a while I set it up on the server.10:11
ChrisHThe FAQ will probably become a huge thingy. :)10:12
plovsneed help?10:12
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ChrisHplovs: With the FAQ? Of course!10:13
ChrisHsivang: Power out again? :)10:13
sivangthis time is was even more strange,10:13
sivangmy ssh connecting just hanged10:13
sivangah, irclog.workaround.org is just wonderful for this exact outages / terminal losses10:15
ChrisHI just pray my boss will not read it.10:16
sivanghmm...why not?10:16
ChrisHI don't know. Perhaps he does not like to pay me for chatting the whole day?10:17
plovsyou want me to docbookify a part of the faq?10:20
ChrisHplovs: I just have my PC working again and would like to prepare the DocBook document which will be even yelp compatible.10:20
ChrisHplovs: Then we should start.10:20
ChrisHplovs: Actually why not start now? :)10:20
ChrisHplovs: Did you see my tiny template using qandasets?10:21
ChrisHplovs: (qandaset = Q and A set)10:22
ChrisHplovs: Just don't care about the headers. I'll grab that from the GDP docs.10:22
ChrisHplovs: Do you have some part you would like to begin with?10:22
plovstiny template using qandasets ? where10:24
plovsJust don't care about the headers, ok10:24
plovssome part you would like to begin with, no10:24
ChrisHplovs: http://workaround.org/ubuntu/faq.xml10:24
ChrisHplovs: I have already worked on the first questions in the old FAQ.10:25
ChrisHplovs: Not much really... more or less for testing.10:25
plovsdoesn't look like much (unless you want me to look at the source) ;-)10:27
ChrisHplovs: Mostly the source as a template how questions and answered are typed in.10:28
plovsyes, it's good10:29
plovsChrisH, you run debian right?10:29
ChrisHplovs: no longer :)10:30
plovsChrisH, ah, ok10:30
ChrisHplovs: My workstation has just been backed up and is now running Warty, too.10:30
plovsChrisH, and, you like it?10:30
ChrisHplovs: No, it stinks. I hoped it would get better with every new installation on one of my four PCs (at work and home) but I still hate it. Let's see if it gets better on a fifth computer.10:31
ChrisHplovs: ;)10:31
=== ChrisH has a weird sense of humor (admittedly)
ChrisHplovs: Nah, Ubuntu is completely great. At work the coworker I convinced to Ubuntu asked me how to install a printer.10:33
ChrisHplovs: I said "uh, well, never tried that. Is it cups? Or some evil magic? Or filters?"10:33
ChrisHplovs: 10 seconds later (he has never used Linux before) he said: "forget it, it works, test page is right now coming out"10:33
ChrisHplovs: Ubuntu is great in every detail. And there is hardly any component behaving mad or crashing. I even got used to the multiple window ("spatial") approach since Gnome 2.6.10:34
ChrisHplovs: An editor wrote an article about the pros and cons of it versus the Windows "directory tree" view. He said he would never since have found so many files and directories he no longer used.10:34
ChrisHplovs: IMHO that's right. I have tidied up half of my home directory since I use windows.10:35
plovsyou just have to change your thinking a bit10:35
ChrisHplovs: windows != Windows (TM)10:35
=== plovs thinks ChrisH secretely loves XP
ChrisHplovs: Okay, okay, you got me. Actually I am an MCSE and Conical is just paying me to advertise Ubuntu in all channels. How did you find out?10:36
plovsso what if we cut the faq in pieces10:36
plovsand divide the pieces10:36
ChrisHplovs: divide and conquer?10:36
plovsbut you must check what i write10:37
ChrisHplovs: Did you try around a little with docbook already?10:37
plovsi just read some, most of the day i spend on MSsql10:38
plovsi think your intro about covers all we need for now, if not i'll complain and we'l add it10:40
ChrisHActually docbook is quite easy IMHO. The greatest problem is to find the correct stylesheets, enter the right processing commands and understanding a few abbreviations.10:41
plovsconglomerate opens your text nicely10:43
plovsWhat text will we translate?10:45
plovsdid you compare the wiki in support and this one?10:47
ChrisHUh... you lost me. "wiki in support" versus "this one"?10:48
ChrisHTranslate? I thought we would start putting the old FAQ into DocBook form.10:49
plovsduh, i am talking to my wife, studying and doing irc, sorry10:49
plovsi meant the one in support and the one in the wiki10:49
ChrisHAs long as you don't call me "precious". :)10:49
plovsif you don't call me gollum10:49
ChrisHAwww... please? :)10:50
ChrisHYou probably mean newfaqtest versus the Support/Documentation/FAQ page.10:51
ChrisHMany items on the NewFAQTest page are already solved (like the "mono" issue). Would like to docbook that first?10:52
plovsis there a reason you write short sentences? or should i write complete sentences and let the formatting be done later?10:54
ChrisHplovs: you mean the line breaks?10:54
ChrisHplovs: It was the default setting in my vim. Makes it easier to jump around in the text IMHO than to go 2000 character to the right.10:55
plovslooks funny with diffirent pagewidth, though10:56
plovsquestion on the side, how do you pronounce router10:57
plovswith a sound like you10:57
plovslike a german u?10:57
plovsor like sauerkraut?10:57
plovswe had a discussion today here10:57
plovslook at: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=110:58
plovsthey have a heading, then a question, then an answer10:58
ChrisHMore like "roota".10:59
ChrisHAlthough english and american people seem to mix that as well.11:00
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plovsok, thought so too :-)11:01
plovscan you format it like in https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 ,with the extra header above every question?11:02
ChrisHplovs: Yes. I could swear this is configurable.11:02
plovswhat if i work on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 and put it in docbook?11:05
plovsthen we join them later11:06
ChrisHSure. Whatever you like.11:06
ChrisHSeems to have a higher quality than the old faq wiki anyway.11:06
plovsthen we unite and clen them up11:06
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plovscan you label qanda-sets?11:08
nightlybuildHello doc team members11:08
plovsnightlybuild, hi11:09
nightlybuildI would like to start the french part of Ubuntu-doc11:10
nightlybuildi mean translate the doc11:10
plovsnice, welcome, we do not have any french docs yet11:12
ChrisHnightlybuild: hi!11:12
ChrisHplovs: No need to. Or is it? The TOC will reference those topic automatically.11:12
nightlybuildi just want to know if it will be better start with dev doc or end user doc ?11:12
nightlybuildHi ChrisH11:12
plovsnightlybuild, end user docs, the other docs change all the time and all the devs read english11:13
plovsnightlybuild, they use english between themselves anyway11:13
plovsnightlybuild, would be a waste of time11:13
ChrisHnightlybuild: I second that. Ubuntu is way more confusing for end-users than for developers.11:14
plovsnightlybuild, the faq is probably the most important doc to translate11:14
ChrisHnightlybuild: That's why are intensively working on a good FAQ.11:14
plovsnightlybuild, look at: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 this is important stuff 11:15
nightlybuildok, so i will start a long-time collaborative translation with FAQ11:15
plovsnightlybuild, and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions11:15
plovsnightlybuild, remember that we are working on it so you might have to move stuff around later11:15
plovsnightlybuild, but most of the text will stay11:15
plovsChrisH, wasn't there a mailinglist for translators?11:16
ChrisHHmm... wouldn't it be better if we first wrote the FAQ in english and start to translate it when it's half done?11:16
ChrisHplovs: yes. ubuntu-translators@11:16
plovswell, the items won't change much i think11:17
ChrisHnightlybuild: Would you consider helping to tidy up the Wiki pages? We would really like your support in translating the FAQ. But it will probably take a day or two.11:17
plovsoff course the frontpage is also a good thing to translate11:17
ChrisHplovs: Just think of the "mono" issue. You would translate the whole section it would just drop out.11:17
nightlybuildChrisH: i'm here for along time job, not just for one day or two ;-)11:18
ChrisHAt least three german writers are currently helping Canonical to translate such things as the main page.11:18
plovsnightlybuild, ChrisH is right11:18
plovsFrontPage ?11:18
plovswe need translator docs11:18
ChrisHThat would probably just mean posting on ubuntu-translators or contacting lulu.11:18
ChrisHplovs: Hmmm, yes, probably.11:19
plovsnightlybuild, sending a mail to ubuntu-translators is a good idea11:21
nightlybuildproposing my sevices for translating "official" doc ?11:21
nightlybuildmy services sorry ;-)11:21
plovsit's all official here :-)11:22
nightlybuildI've registred yet as ubuntu member ?11:24
ChrisHplovs: I'd like to stay but I have to get up again in 7 hours. I'll get the template ready asap tomorrow.11:24
plovsChrisH, ok, i have to sleep as well, see ya!11:25
ChrisHnightlybuild: Please switch the light off, when you are done. :)11:25
nightlybuildgood night11:25
plovsnightlybuild, it's all about the work you do11:25
nightlybuildplovs: ?11:26
plovsnightlybuild, you translate well, you're on the team11:26
plovsthat's how it goes11:26
nightlybuildit couldn't be more simple ;-)11:27
plovsyep it is11:27
nightlybuildyou are all working for canonical ,11:27
plovsi wish i was, but i am not11:27
plovson the docteam, only enrico does11:28
nightlybuildmay be one day ;-)11:28
plovswho knows?11:29
plovsso, the doc team thinks FAQ and FrontPage are important, but talk to the translator guys, they know better11:29
plovsand we are currently working on the faq, it will change11:29
plovsand ask the translator guys why they have no wiki-page11:30
plovsand say hi, from the doc-guys11:30
plovsand invite them to #ubuntu-doc11:30
plovsmore answers i don't have ;-)11:31
nightlybuildi will post a request for french translation before going to bed ;-)11:31
nightlybuildSee you plovs...11:31
plovsnightlybuild, see you next time!11:32
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