[07:20] <ChrisH> Morning guys... <yawn>
[07:21] <ChrisH> Oh, well, my son has cancelled my night after 5 hours. What a great start into a new week. :) Let's install Ubuntu on my work PC then. At least something useful to do.
[08:40] <volvoguy> howdy all
[08:47] <trickie> howdy
[11:21] <ChrisH> sivang: power outage?
[11:21] <sivang> something like that :)
[11:21] <sivang> yes
[11:21] <sivang> I am in the uni's lib,
[11:21] <sivang> power went down,
[11:21] <sivang> machines went down,
[11:21] <sivang> admin unavailable
[11:22] <sivang> :)
[11:22] <sivang> now it's back up and nobody;s knowns why
[11:22] <sivang> oh well, till next time (tm) :)
[11:22] <ChrisH> sivang: I'll be off for lunch in a minute. trickie and I would like to start with an experimental repository of docbook with an xhtml automaker. Read the post?
[11:23] <sivang> I read your post,
[11:23] <sivang> I wasn't sure who trickie is
[11:23] <sivang> :)
[11:23] <sivang> I tried to respond when power went off,
[11:23] <sivang> one word for that would be
[11:23] <sivang> "superb
[11:23] <sivang> "
[11:23] <sivang> :)
[11:24] <sivang> I might be interested in the setting up hlep, or just bug you guys so I could learn some more server knowhow on the way
[11:24] <ChrisH> sivang: Okay. Let's see if we all like it.
[11:24] <ChrisH> sivang: hlep?
[11:24] <sivang> if i can help on the server setup, amdin, config etc.
[11:24] <sivang> *admin
[11:25] <ChrisH> sivang: ah, ok :)
[11:25] <ChrisH> sivang: I'd start with a simple SVN repository on mentors.debian.net and we all can learn how it would work. I'm currently only using SVN for my own projects.
[11:29] <sivang> ChrisH : what about using arch?
[11:30] <sivang> ChrisH : so later it would be easier to incorporate our repository with canonical's ?
[11:30] <ChrisH> sivang: Haven't used arch yet. Haven't even heard of it before a few days ago.
[11:31] <ChrisH> sivang: But of course i'm willing to learn.
[11:35] <sivang> ChrisH : ok, I will see what can be found on Bazzar's site at canonical's
[11:35] <sivang> as well as finishing my tutorial in docbook :)
[11:36] <sivang> Bon Appetit!
[12:21] <plovs_work> hi guys
[12:21] <sivang> hey plovs
[12:21] <sivang> how you been?
[12:21] <plovs_work> good, busy today
[12:23] <sivang> in what? doc related?
[12:26] <plovs_work> work
[12:27] <plovs_work> sivang, how did your install go?
[12:28] <plovs_work> have to make a reboot, brb
[12:30] <sivang> plovs_work : install?
[01:09] <sivang> ChrisH : here?
[01:12] <ChrisH> sivang: yow... struggling with the damn Novell server
[01:13] <sivang> ah
[01:13] <sivang> ok, ttl then - I'm working on the main site's team page
[01:16] <ChrisH> sivang: I'm listening. :)
[01:31] <ChrisH> Cool. I have my name on the page. I'm famous! Yahoo! ;)
[01:34] <sivang> haha
[01:34] <sivang> :)
[01:34] <sivang> still working in it..Would appriciate spellchecks and comments afterwards.
[01:35] <ChrisH> sivang: My name is correct. Everything else is irrelevant. ;)
[01:36] <sivang> yeah! ChrsH for world domination!
[01:36] <sivang> mouuhaaa!
[01:46] <ChrisH> Hmmm. It looks like Arch is only used for the dpkg repository for the maintainers. Other teams seem to use cvs or svn as they like. Strange.
[01:47] <plovs_work> sivang, nice work, the team page
[01:47] <ChrisH> hornbeck: How far did you get regarding the Bazaar repository? I'm starting to get confused what we will be using.
[01:48] <plovs_work> an utter lack of icons is a little disquieting, but for the rest it's ok
[01:48] <plovs_work> sivang, and maybe put the names in alphabetical order
[01:49] <plovs_work> sivang, you can change your name to aaasivang if you want ;)
[01:49] <plovs_work> ChrisH, hornbeck is asleep, he lives on the wrong site of the planet
[01:50] <sivang> haha
[01:50] <sivang> :)
[01:50] <sivang> I now know the europ rules :)
[01:50] <ChrisH> hornbeck: WAKE UP!
[01:50] <ChrisH> :)
[01:51] <sivang> has anybody seen hornbeck's photo on his personal page?
[01:51] <ChrisH> nope
[01:53] <plovs_work> hahaha, now i have
[01:53] <plovs_work> oeps, he might read the blog ;)
[01:53] <plovs_work> log
[01:53] <ChrisH> lol :)
[01:55] <plovs_work> he looks just like my brother, though
[01:57] <plovs_work> is it just me or are things a *lot* faster today?
[01:58] <ChrisH> I also thought that.
[01:59] <sivang> faster?
[01:59] <sivang> on the wiki ?
[02:00] <ChrisH> Yes. I saved the SSH Wiki page yesterday and it took a whole minute to save!
[02:00] <mercurus> greetings
[02:01] <ChrisH> Hi, mercurus 
[02:01] <sivang> welcome mercurus.
[02:01] <plovs_work> mercurus, hi
[02:02] <mercurus> ChrisH: a multitude I would imagine ...
[02:03] <mercurus> If I wanted to help out "documentally" where would I be most useful ?
[02:03] <ChrisH> mercurus: Wouldn't be very personal though. :)
[02:03] <plovs_work> ChrisH, i would like one as well, and then run it in #ubuntu, how long would it take to get kicked?
[02:03] <ChrisH> mercurus: A cappuccino, please. Extra sugar. Thanks. ;)
[02:04] <ChrisH> plovs_work: Approximately 2 seconds longer than one of the ops seeing that.
[02:04] <mercurus> ChrisH: it would be easy to perlify ... regex for JOIN, and then extract the username from that string ... all inside a loop that prints out the username in a standard greeting ...
[02:04] <plovs_work> mercurus, look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo
[02:05] <sivang> ah! a perl munk ?
[02:05] <mercurus> sivang: I can conceptualise ... coding it is another thing entirely :)
[02:05] <mercurus> I have dabbled ...
[02:05] <sivang> mercurus : sounds like you're on the right track..
[02:06] <plovs_work> ChrisH, sivang, i added pages that need editing on that page, if you run into something maybe you can also add it there
[02:07] <plovs_work> mercurus, you any good at cron stuff?
[02:07] <ChrisH> plovs_work: sure. Which?
[02:07] <mercurus> unfortunately I've been training my mind not to deal with absolutes, and I never really mastered the regex
[02:07] <mercurus> plovs_work: I've never used cron :(
[02:07] <mercurus> I should learn though ...
[02:07] <plovs_work> mercurus, then you'll love the cron page as soon as it is written
[02:08] <plovs_work> ChrisH, any page, you think is unfinished
[02:08] <plovs_work> ChrisH, that is anything except the ssh-page :)
[02:08] <mercurus> jolly good ... I posted a HOWTO of sorts to the Forums ... is there someone allocated to the Multimedia HOWTO ?
[02:09] <ChrisH> plovs_work: Nah, the SSH page still lacks some flash applets. I'm on it. ;)
[02:13] <hornbeck> morning
[02:15] <sivang> morning fellow earthling
[02:15] <hornbeck> how is everything this morning?
[02:15] <sivang> Pretty fine , I guess.
[02:15] <hornbeck> thats good
[02:15] <sivang> nice to see your photo on the wiki
[02:15] <hornbeck> you like that?
[02:15] <hornbeck> I am one sexy guy
[02:15] <mercurus> could I port the Multimedia HOWTO being developed on the unofficial forums across to the Wiki ?
[02:15] <hornbeck> :-)
[02:16] <sivang> Yes, in a wizard of ozz kind of way :) you have a soccer's bird
[02:16] <sivang> beard
[02:16] <sivang> darn
[02:16] <sivang> my spelling sucks today
[02:16] <hornbeck> never knew I had a soccer's bird :-p[
[02:16] <sivang> haha
[02:16] <sivang> how do you spell the word for a magician?
[02:17] <hornbeck> mercurus: I don't see why not
[02:17] <hornbeck> magician
[02:17] <sivang> the one that starts with s
[02:17] <sivang> sauccer
[02:17] <mercurus> sorceror
[02:17] <sivang> maybe?
[02:17] <hornbeck> sorceror I think
[02:17] <hornbeck> yust google it
[02:17] <sivang> yes, dict says this is it
[02:17] <sivang> :)
[02:18] <hornbeck> wish my dict talked
[02:18] <sivang> do you have permanet pireced ears?or are thse just magnetic earings?
[02:18] <sivang> maybe it can,
[02:18] <hornbeck> I used to have 1/2 inch holes in my ears
[02:18] <sivang> there a plantora of text to speech synthiziers around for linux
[02:19] <hornbeck> that photo is about a year old
[02:19] <sivang> there might need some work to be done to make it use it
[02:19] <sivang> how's the book going?
[02:19] <hornbeck> I did not work on it at all this weekend
[02:20] <hornbeck> I just finished repairing a roof and fixing a water heater
[02:20] <hornbeck> but today I am going to start compiling stuff from the wiki and see how much is needed to write from scratch
[02:20] <sivang> oh that damn water heater..
[02:20] <hornbeck> hornbeck.freeshell.org/blogger
[02:21] <hornbeck> the whole weekend story is there
[02:21] <sivang> btw, it's nice having a face you're talking to, instead of just a nick
[02:21] <hornbeck> I would not know
[02:21] <hornbeck> ok, than I will know who I am talking to
[02:21] <sivang> :)
[02:22] <hornbeck> is ChrisH around?
[02:22] <sivang> I think so
[02:23] <sivang> we want to dobookize the FAQ, what do you think/
[02:23] <sivang> ?
[02:23] <hornbeck> I posted to the list saying I support it
[02:23] <hornbeck> I am for docbook everything
[02:23] <sivang> DocBook is so neat, I think we need to streamline all our authoring on it
[02:23] <sivang> me too
[02:23] <hornbeck> I hate that we are not working on offline docs
[02:23] <hornbeck> that is why I started this book
[02:24] <hornbeck> to give us some offline docs
[02:24] <hornbeck> ChrisH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[02:24] <sivang> well, I have already started working on my StartingTheJOurney , besides maintaining the wiki and working on the main documentation page.
[02:25] <hornbeck> do you know if ChrisH has started this repository?
[02:25] <ChrisH> hornbeck: errr. yes.
[02:25] <hornbeck> hey
[02:25] <sivang> well here he is
[02:25] <sivang> :)
[02:26] <hornbeck> ChrisH: did you start the repository you talked about on the list
[02:26] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Not very much. :)
[02:26] <hornbeck> ok
[02:26] <sivang> We can use ChrisH's infrastructure for this,
[02:26] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Have you worked on it? I ready what you wanted to do from the meeting. Hard nearly forgotten it. :)
[02:27] <hornbeck> I bought a faster line, static ip's, new server, everything so we can set up repositories for the doc team
[02:27] <sivang> as he has already quite some of it :)
[02:27] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I have 512 kbps, statis IPs, own DNS (forward and reverse), web server and repository already installed :)
[02:27] <hornbeck> I just spent almost a grand to get this all started :-)
[02:27] <ChrisH> hornbeck: And if we really need it I could put a server in the computer room at my fellow ISP if we needed 100 Mbps. :)
[02:27] <hornbeck> mine is a 3M line
[02:28] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Damn. You win. ;)
[02:28] <sivang> hornbeck : wow, this must have caused a bit.
[02:28] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What kind of repository is it?
[02:28] <hornbeck> what might be nice is some mirroring
[02:28] <sivang> we could start our own elite distro :)
[02:28] <hornbeck> I have not set anything up yet
[02:28] <hornbeck> but if you would like to help me :-)
[02:29] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Although we probably won't need much bandwidth for it, will we?
[02:29] <sivang> not at the start,
[02:29] <sivang> but as soon as freshmeat talks about us
[02:29] <sivang> we would :)
[02:29] <hornbeck> honestly, I have no experiance setting up repositories, but I did this so the doc team would have something and so I could host my own blog server
[02:30] <hornbeck> I would like to be able to host unofficial Ubuntu packages also
[02:30] <ChrisH> sivang: I have read a bit about arch. And I wonder why they are not using subversion. Seems like Arch was started the same time subversion was launched. Just that Subversion looks more powerful and comprehensive to me. But, heck...
[02:30] <mercurus> hmm ... can I do bulletted lists in Moin, and if so, how ?
[02:30] <sivang> I am fine with people saying subversion is better,
[02:30] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Which repository software do you intend to use?
[02:30] <hornbeck> ChrisH: would you be willing to help me set this all up
[02:30] <hornbeck> Subversion
[02:30] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Sure.
[02:31] <sivang> should we use arch just to make canonical able to merge our repo easily?
[02:31] <hornbeck> actually, we decided in the meeting to try out SVN and if it did not work to try others
[02:31] <sivang> what do people think?
[02:31] <hornbeck> the topic of Bazzar was raised
[02:31] <hornbeck> but the dev has not got back to me
[02:31] <ChrisH> The package maintainers seem so use arch for the packages because there are tools for that. But there are tools for cvs and svn as well.
[02:32] <hornbeck> I really like cvs
[02:32] <hornbeck> but not many others do
[02:32] <ChrisH> Bazzar is more a web forum with upload features than a repository to me. I think we would be better off with svn or arch.
[02:32] <hornbeck> ok
[02:32] <ChrisH> hornbeck: CVS has some flaws. I was used to it, too. But SVN isn't that different.
[02:32] <sivang> ChrisH : but you just said svn looks more comprehensive then arch
[02:32] <hornbeck> well I bought this stuff for it to be used by our community, and I hope it gets good use
[02:32] <ChrisH> sivang: IMHO yes.
[02:32] <plovs_work> hornbeck, goodmorning
[02:32] <hornbeck> good morning plovs
[02:33] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Got a few minutes to get it running?
[02:33] <hornbeck> not all set up yet
[02:33] <ChrisH> hornbeck: ok
[02:33] <hornbeck> the line comes in today
[02:33] <plovs_work> hornbeck, got a firewall already?
[02:33] <ChrisH> hornbeck: 3 Mbps is pretty impressive
[02:33] <hornbeck> the server is here
[02:33] <hornbeck> plovs yes firewall in place
[02:33] <sivang> which brand / hardware? (hardware savy)
[02:33] <plovs_work> hornbeck, what did you use, in the end?
[02:33] <sivang> photo?
[02:34] <hornbeck> plovs monowall
[02:34] <hornbeck> ChrisH, that was the fastest I could get before T1
[02:35] <hornbeck> If this takes to much bandwidth, I will upgrade to T1
[02:35] <plovs_work> any of you guys use a windows desktop?
[02:35] <mercurus> *cough* Can I do bulletted lists in Moin, and if so, how ?
[02:36] <hornbeck> plovs: my wife does
[02:36] <hornbeck> so I have one next to me
[02:36] <mercurus> I'm new to Wikis generally
[02:37] <plovs_work> mercurus, <space>*<space>twertwrter
[02:37] <mercurus> thank you :)
[02:37] <plovs_work> i'll add it to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[02:37] <hornbeck> anyone tried out the Novell Desktop yet?
[02:38] <plovs_work> hornbeck, is there something like tomboy for windows?
[02:39] <hornbeck> plovs: i don't know
[02:39] <hornbeck> I don't use windows but I was saying I have access to one if you needed me to
[02:40] <ChrisH> hornbeck: btw: I hope you don't mind my proposal on -doc. I didn't mean to rush over you. It's not that important where the repository will be located.
[02:40] <hornbeck> ChrisH: not at all, I just hope we can work together on this :-)
[02:40] <ChrisH> hornbeck: We will.
[02:40] <hornbeck> I would be all the willing to let you help in whatever way with this server
[02:41] <hornbeck> "for the people, by the people"
[02:41] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Do you have access to DNS zones? Just that we can give the server a name instead of an IP.
[02:41] <hornbeck> ChrisH, I am not aware of any
[02:42] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I could assign something like doc.workaround.org if you like.
[02:42] <hornbeck> that would work
[02:42] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Do you have an IP already?
[02:43] <hornbeck> I am checking right now
[02:43] <mercurus> is there a wiki editing WYSIWYG editor available for Ubuntu, if so, which repository, and what is it called ?
[02:44] <hornbeck> ChrisH: I am calling to get my ip's
[02:44] <ChrisH> hornbeck: You could use the same name both for SVN access (over SSH I propose) and for an Apache virtual host containing the auto-generated HTML output.
[02:45] <hornbeck> yeah
[02:47] <plovs_work> mercurus, no such thing, but you'll get the hang of it soon, btw look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats for Multimedia stuff as well
[02:47] <hornbeck> man it takes forever to get these people on the line
[02:47] <ChrisH> mercurus: compared to DocBook the Wiki format is really easy ;)
[02:47] <mercurus> plovs_work: I was just going to link to that one, but it can be amended \ incorporated appropriately
[02:48] <plovs_work> mercurus, what you want
[02:48] <mercurus> how do I link to anchors ? ie. I've done a contents list ... how do I link from the contents list to individual items ?
[02:48] <mercurus> (within the same page)
[02:48] <plovs_work> mercurus, you can ask the others here as well, but take a look at ReST as well, before you type a lot of stuff
[02:49] <plovs_work> mercurus, moin only works for simple pages atm
[02:49] <mercurus> ReST is the preferred Wiki-markup ?
[02:49] <hornbeck> yes
[02:51] <mercurus> and how do I do lists, and anchor links in ReST ?
[02:51] <plovs_work> mercurus you can copy a template from http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto (in moin or ReST), but i prefer ReST
[02:52] <plovs_work> anchor links: you make some sentence, and link to it like: `you make some sentence`_
[02:52] <mercurus> plovs_work: aye, i've got that page open ... but I'm struggling to nest bulletted lists
[02:52] <plovs_work> i'll put it in, then reload the page brb
[02:54] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Which ISP is that? AOL?
[02:54] <hornbeck> the telephone company
[02:54] <ChrisH> hornbeck: AT&T?
[02:54] <hornbeck> sbc
[02:54] <ChrisH> hornbeck: uh huh
[02:55] <hornbeck> I am on hold right now
[02:55] <hornbeck> :-)
[02:56] <plovs_work> mercurus, ok, reload http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[02:56] <ChrisH> ... please hold the line ... we will connect you as soon as possible ... the next free supporter will deal with you ...
[02:58] <hornbeck> I have someone now
[02:59] <plovs_work> mercurus, let me know if the examples in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto are any good and what  can be done to improve the page
[03:03] <sivang> main site is slow...
[03:03] <sivang> saving is  a pain
[03:04] <plovs_work> did you guys see the "Reliable file systems"-thread, would be nice to have a page about file-systems
[03:04] <plovs_work> or would it end up like vim-emacs?
[03:07] <plovs_work> added it to: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo
[03:12] <mercurus> plovs_work: thank you :) I found the ReST quick reference ... but that's a good start :)
[03:13] <plovs_work> mercurus, look at the ReST page as well
[03:15] <mercurus> I am ... I might post a preliminary outline and get some comments
[03:16] <mercurus> the absence of closing tags is making my life interesting
[03:16] <sivang> hey, I happen to like closing tags very much :)
[03:16] <mercurus> sivang: likewise, that's the issue ... there aren't any ... are there ?
[03:16] <mercurus> hmm ...
[03:16] <mercurus> System Message: ERROR/3 (<string>, line 50)
[03:16] <mercurus> Unexpected indentation.
[03:16] <mercurus> oops :p
[03:17] <plovs_work> mercurus, there *should* be
[03:17] <mercurus> plovs_work: how/where ?
[03:17] <sivang> in rest? I don't know. in docbook on ther other hand..
[03:17] <sivang> :)
[03:18] <plovs_work> mercurus what page are you working on
[03:18] <plovs_work> ChrisH, did you see http://www.koders.com ?
[03:19] <mercurus> I've just saved it ... its https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MultimediaHOWTO
[03:20] <asw> sivang: hey! (sorry about the six hour delay.) 
[03:20] <mercurus> what have I done wrong ..?
[03:21] <ChrisH> plovs_work: funky :)
[03:22] <plovs_work> mercurus, can i edit it?
[03:22] <plovs_work> ChrisH, cool he?
[03:22] <mercurus> plovs_work: sure, just show me what I did wrong ...
[03:22] <plovs_work> mercurus, ok
[03:23] <sivang> asw : that's cool
[03:23] <sivang> :P)
[03:24] <plovs_work> mercurus, check it out, you just needed a bunch of empty lines
[03:24] <plovs_work> mercurus, now it's ok
[03:24] <hornbeck> can someone try to ping a ip
[03:25] <plovs_work> sure
[03:25] <hornbeck> 69.15.172.145
[03:25] <hornbeck> hold on
[03:25] <hornbeck> 69.155.172.145
[03:25] <hornbeck> there you go
[03:25] <plovs_work> hornbeck, nor pinging, nor nmapping
[03:26] <hornbeck> thats what I though
[03:26] <hornbeck> I have to make a new router
[03:26] <hornbeck> crap
[03:27] <plovs_work> hornbeck, why a new router, just add a route in monowall
[03:27] <mercurus> plovs_work: so ... what did I do wrong ?
[03:27] <hornbeck> plovs: nice
[03:27] <hornbeck> how did you do the whole hackergotchi thing
[03:28] <plovs_work> mercurus, you need an empty line after [03:28] <plovs_work> hornbeck, gimp
[03:28] <asw> sivang: hi all.  Things are a little crazy for me but I'm following the doc team's progress as best I can and will try to attend (part) of the Dec. community meeting in Barcelona.  I'll definitely put up a page highlighting the parts of Ubuntu that are especially attractive for scientists.   
[03:29] <plovs_work> hornbeck, cut out my head, added shadow, resized, done
[03:29] <ChrisH> hornbeck: ok
[03:29] <plovs_work> hornbeck, the colors are not very good but wel...
[03:29] <plovs_work> mercurus, ok?
[03:29] <hornbeck> anyone know any good router distro's?
[03:29] <plovs_work> hornbeck, monowall
[03:29] <ChrisH> hornbeck: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=doc.workaround.org&type=A
[03:29] <plovs_work> ;)
[03:30] <hornbeck> plovs: does monowall work as a router?
[03:30] <plovs_work> yes
[03:30] <plovs_work> if you tell it to
[03:30] <plovs_work> politely
[03:31] <ChrisH> hornbeck: yes. Works great. Have it running in a subsidiary here.
[03:31] <hornbeck> I guess I will have to look into that right now
[03:32] <ChrisH> hornbeck: cool. sbc has entered your name in the whois information of the network range. :)
[03:32] <ChrisH> hornbeck: sounds like they know what they are doing
[03:32] <hornbeck> thats good
[03:32] <hornbeck> now I just have to get a router up and running to get the ip's to come to me :-)
[03:34] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Having static IPs is really fun. There are dozens of service that are fun insecuring the network with. :)
[03:34] <hornbeck> well this is going to be another fun learning curve
[03:34] <hornbeck> I love figuring things out
[03:35] <plovs_work> hornbeck, i suppose youneed http://www.m0n0.ch/wall/docbook/firewall-inbound-nat.html
[03:35] <sivang> anybody, just added the doc team to the main team pages,
[03:35] <sivang> comments, flame etc welcome
[03:35] <sivang> :)
[03:36] <plovs_work> sivang, icons, flash movies?
[03:36] <hornbeck> plovs: yes that looks good
[03:36] <sivang> hmm..
[03:37] <plovs_work> sivang, despite that shortcoming, i think it looks really good
[03:37] <sivang> I was more referring to weather the content looks reasonable
[03:38] <sivang> and not newbie too confusing.
[03:38] <sivang> I took the "current work" and "how to help" and merged those to "I want to help!"
[03:38] <plovs_work> You might find this mediums also useful in this regard > needs to be *these*
[03:39] <plovs_work> media ?
[03:39] <ChrisH> sivang: put portraits of each of us online. That will keep people from contacing us. :)
[03:39] <plovs_work> maybe: you might find these links usefull: ????
[03:40] <plovs_work> Documentatino Team Meetings , discussing future goal and planning, freenode IRC #ubuntu-meeting. typo in documentation
[03:41] <sivang> do we have plovs_work in doc team? I don't know him at all...ANybody know who he is ? :)
[03:41] <sivang> and if he's at work, how can he have complains at all?? :))
[03:41] <hornbeck> well I am off to try and get this to work
[03:41] <hornbeck> I will keep everyone updated
[03:42] <plovs_work> sivang, :-)
[03:43] <sivang> alex, those are noted - I will fix those, thanks for the input :)
[03:45] <mercurus> plovs_work: cheers for that ... what eas causing the problem ? absence of spacing ?
[03:49] <plovs_work> mercurus, look at the example http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto, you'll see lots of empty lines, they *have* to be there
[03:49] <mercurus> bloody Python :p
[03:51] <sivang> ok, I have to go now. Catch you all later people.
[04:32] <plovs> aargh, i hosed my irssi config
[04:51] <ChrisH> plovs: Backup rules. :)
[04:59] <ChrisH> sivang: elkhouse.de? :)
[05:00] <sivang> yeah :)
[05:01] <sivang> thanks to a very dear fellow of mine, wizard of automatic media and security policy in warty - Martin Pitt
[05:01] <ChrisH> sivang: You probably don't need another ISP. You need a bag of emergency batteries.
[05:02] <sivang> yes I do :)
[05:02] <sivang> but having you and him now, I am more than satified with my internet presence by now :)
[05:03] <sivang> must get my UPS soon
[05:03] <ChrisH> sivang: If you bought a 2000 km power cable you could plug it into my garden wall socket.
[05:04] <mercurus> this wiki language is SOOOO inefficient.
[05:04] <ChrisH> mercurus: You should try DocBook. It will make you love wiki.
[05:05] <mercurus> ChrisH: at least DocBook is local, and you don't have to wait for the page to reload each time
[05:05] <ChrisH> That's right. The Wiki is darn slow at the moment.
[05:07] <sivang> ChrisH : yes, I would :)
[05:09] <ChrisH> Phew. I have converted KDE->Gnome, Tree->Spatial and root->sudo. And it works much better. :)
[05:10] <sivang> Uh, seems like someone here likes Ubuntu
[05:10] <sivang> :)
[05:10] <ChrisH> Nah, I hated. I'll leave the project. Good bye.
[05:11] <sivang> :)
[05:11] <sivang> please don't follow sparkes path..
[05:11] <sivang> :)
[05:12] <sivang> ChrisH : you still there?
[05:13] <ChrisH> sivang: No, I left.
[05:13] <sivang> now really 
[05:13] <ChrisH> sivang: Seriously *not*. ;)
[05:14] <sivang> ever heared of Pink Floyd ?
[05:14] <sivang> :)
[05:14] <ChrisH> sure
[05:14] <sivang> and scorpions?
[05:14] <ChrisH> sure^2
[05:14] <sivang> they are half germen, half russian or something?
[05:14] <sivang> I really like Klaus Nin...something , don't recall his last name
[05:14] <ChrisH> Scorpions are german IIRC. Pink Floyd? No idea.
[05:15] <sivang> pink are british
[05:15] <mercurus> hmm ... found a bug already.
[05:15] <sivang> Scorpions, on my music groups hall of fame. I play some 4 very nice hits of them on the guitar.
[05:15] <sivang> mercurus : how,where,when ? :)
[05:21] <sivang> any news since I left?
[05:21] <sivang> Hi __randy, and welcome to the fine channel for Ubuntu Documentation Team.
[05:22] <sivang> have you looked at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/documentation already? :)
[05:22] <ChrisH> __randy__: Don't worry about sivang. He is just a welcome bot. :)
[05:22] <sivang> hahaha
[05:23] <sivang> of a bot.
[05:34] <sivang> I guess __randy got scared. was I to direct?
[05:34] <sivang> :)
[05:35] <ChrisH> Perhaps __randy__ is a bot?
[05:36] <__randy__> ChrisH, no just looking over the teams page
[05:36] <ChrisH> Okay... I'm going home and will continue with docbook.
[05:36] <ChrisH> __randy__: ah, okay :)
[05:37] <sivang> great ChrisH, lemme know what new when you have any
[05:37] <__randy__> sivang, actually the link was quite helpfull the wiki isn't the easiest thing to navigate
[05:37] <sivang> ah!
[05:37] <sivang> music to my ears
[05:37] <sivang> :)
[05:38] <sivang> although I might have some spelling mistakes and other faults on that new team page
[05:38] <__randy__> and I'm thinking about something I might be able to help with
[05:40] <ChrisH> __randy__: Help is needed in fixing Wiki entries. Many pages are in bad shape and would need some going-over.
[05:40] <__randy__> Do you know if there would be interest in and OpenAfs howto?
[05:45] <ChrisH> No personal interest. But why not. If you know anything about it.
[05:52] <sivang> OpenAfs?
[05:52] <sivang> what is it?
[05:54] <__randy__> Network File and Authentication system that my school uses
[05:54] <__randy__> I setup it up on a Ubuntu machine as a test station in our computer lab
[06:04] <sivang> this is something standard to the kernel? or is userspace utils?
[06:05] <__randy__> It's a kernel module with some userspace utils
[06:05] <__randy__> and it plugs into pam to
[06:13] <sivang> nice
[06:14] <sivang> you go ahead and have the howto done, I am sure many people could be using it, or just feeling lucky when they need it and find it ready :)
[06:15] <__randy__> sivang,  I'll have it done and in docbook by the end of the week hopefully
[06:17] <sivang> no rush, this is all voulenteering work, take you time :) I appriciate your help
[06:19] <__randy__> sivang, it shouldn't be all that long I just have to make sure that I don't screw up any of the pam steps
[06:19] <sivang> ofcourse. thank you
[06:37] <ChrisH> Yes... another convert. :) A coworker asked me if I could help him install Debian on his PC. He has no experience with Linux and would like to get a start. Took my Ubuntu-CD and 15 minutes and now he's happy. :)
[07:21] <sivang> great!
[07:29] <ChrisH> Hmmm. If only NIS would work.
[07:30] <lulu> hey guys - before i go - does anyone know how to get to a list of orphaned pages on the ZWIKI?
[07:31] <ChrisH> lulu: no idea
[07:32] <lulu> ChrisH: me neither! :o) perhaps we should add it to the wiki wish list!
[07:32] <lulu> night all!
[07:32] <ChrisH> lulu: nite
[08:13] <plovs> ChrisH, you have any experience with NIS?
[08:14] <ChrisH> plovs: yes...
[08:14] <ChrisH> plovs: And I even just gained more experience.
[08:14] <ChrisH> plovs: ...on how to completely screw my system. :)
[08:15] <ChrisH> plovs: In intended to write a Wiki article about it. But it's tricky moving the sudo user to NIS.
[08:19] <sivang> what do you need nis for?
[08:19] <plovs> ChrisH, I have seen questions on the list and in #ubuntu about it so it is popular
[08:20] <sivang> what are you up to plovs?
[08:20] <ChrisH> sivang: I have two PCs (wife's and mine), the notebook (mine) and another notebook (from work) in my network. And the file server itself (torf). It's a mess maintaining my user accounts on all systems locally.
[08:20] <sivang> (today, that is)
[08:20] <plovs> ChrisH, Afterwards I would like a samba authentication thing as well (for Active Directory)
[08:20] <ChrisH> plovs: yuk... AD?
[08:20] <plovs> i really like it actually, it actually works (here)
[08:21] <sivang> plovs : My freind from NYC is on brink of tryin logging into a domain controller, he now working on setting wireless
[08:21] <plovs> besides the reguler MS clumsiness of the thing
[08:21] <sivang> plovs : what do you mean in samba authentication?
[08:21] <plovs> login into a domain controller from linux?
[08:21] <plovs> using a samba box as DC
[08:22] <plovs> for our second network
[08:22] <sivang> ok, this I can test myself , if you like, but only tommorow
[08:22] <plovs> no problem
[08:22] <plovs> we just came home from guest, and leave agin, to hang out with friends, so no more comp for me
[08:22] <plovs> sivang, tomboy!
[08:23] <plovs> or put it on your homepage in the wiki
[08:23] <plovs> ok, cu later!
[08:25] <sivang> bye plovs
[08:27] <sivang> ahhhheerrhrhrh wiki is dead slow..
[08:28] <ChrisH> Indeed. But in the morning (here) it seem to be faster. Looks like the machine does not provide enough power.
[08:32] <sivang> this is really a problem for our wiki working lovers
[08:32] <ChrisH> Correct.
[09:00] <sivang> hey __randy__, any reason your nick looks like a protected method in python?
[09:00] <sivang> :)
[09:25] <sivang> ChrisH : you still here?
[09:26] <ChrisH> sivang: Jau.
[09:26] <sivang> Jau ?
[09:26] <sivang> :)
[09:26] <ChrisH> German for "Yop". :)
[09:26] <ChrisH> Which in turn is geek for "Yes".
[09:27] <sivang> There is a geek dialect of germen?
[09:28] <ChrisH> Nah, not really. But "Jau" (pronounced "Yao") is a typical short word when picking up the phone.
[09:28] <ChrisH> An alternative would be "Huh?" or "Friend or Wife?"
[09:30] <sivang> Ah! That sounds familiar when I listened to my late grandmother, answering my mom's naggs - "Yao! Yao! Yao!"
[09:31] <sivang> she spoke yeddish, germen, hungerian
[09:31] <sivang> I just read it pronouncing the J
[09:34] <ChrisH> You will probably not find it in an official dictionary.
[09:45] <sivang> I guess not. Yeddish itself is somewhat a gibrish mixture of germen,bits of hebrew and some other I think
[09:57] <ChrisH> Yes, I know. It's the more or less native language of the jews who lived in germany during that evil period 60 years ago.
[10:04] <sivang> Just noticed your email about sudo on devel,
[10:04] <sivang> you're not comfortable with the sudo concept in ubuntu? :)
[10:06] <ChrisH> Who said that? :)
[10:08] <ChrisH> Those power-outages start to become funny. :)
[10:08] <plovs> hi
[10:09] <ChrisH> plovs: Hi, Alex...
[10:09] <plovs> so, NIS and sudo do not mix?
[10:09] <ChrisH> Let's say: make sure you have other uid, gids and user names on the NIS than on the local system.
[10:10] <ChrisH> I'll Wiki that. :)
[10:10] <plovs> that would be nice, i would like to start using NIS or ldap but a howto would be nice
[10:11] <ChrisH> I can just verify it for the client side actually. It's been a while I set it up on the server.
[10:12] <ChrisH> The FAQ will probably become a huge thingy. :)
[10:12] <plovs> need help?
[10:13] <sivang> strange
[10:13] <ChrisH> plovs: With the FAQ? Of course!
[10:13] <ChrisH> sivang: Power out again? :)
[10:13] <sivang> this time is was even more strange,
[10:13] <sivang> my ssh connecting just hanged
[10:15] <sivang> ah, irclog.workaround.org is just wonderful for this exact outages / terminal losses
[10:16] <sivang> :)
[10:16] <ChrisH> I just pray my boss will not read it.
[10:16] <sivang> hmm...why not?
[10:16] <sivang> :)
[10:17] <ChrisH> I don't know. Perhaps he does not like to pay me for chatting the whole day?
[10:20] <plovs> you want me to docbookify a part of the faq?
[10:20] <ChrisH> plovs: I just have my PC working again and would like to prepare the DocBook document which will be even yelp compatible.
[10:20] <ChrisH> plovs: Then we should start.
[10:20] <ChrisH> plovs: Actually why not start now? :)
[10:21] <ChrisH> plovs: Did you see my tiny template using qandasets?
[10:22] <ChrisH> plovs: (qandaset = Q and A set)
[10:22] <ChrisH> plovs: Just don't care about the headers. I'll grab that from the GDP docs.
[10:22] <ChrisH> plovs: Do you have some part you would like to begin with?
[10:24] <plovs> tiny template using qandasets ? where
[10:24] <plovs> Just don't care about the headers, ok
[10:24] <plovs> some part you would like to begin with, no
[10:24] <ChrisH> plovs: http://workaround.org/ubuntu/faq.xml
[10:25] <ChrisH> plovs: I have already worked on the first questions in the old FAQ.
[10:25] <ChrisH> plovs: Not much really... more or less for testing.
[10:27] <plovs> doesn't look like much (unless you want me to look at the source) ;-)
[10:28] <ChrisH> plovs: Mostly the source as a template how questions and answered are typed in.
[10:29] <plovs> yes, it's good
[10:29] <plovs> ChrisH, you run debian right?
[10:30] <ChrisH> plovs: no longer :)
[10:30] <plovs> ChrisH, ah, ok
[10:30] <ChrisH> plovs: My workstation has just been backed up and is now running Warty, too.
[10:30] <plovs> ChrisH, and, you like it?
[10:31] <ChrisH> plovs: No, it stinks. I hoped it would get better with every new installation on one of my four PCs (at work and home) but I still hate it. Let's see if it gets better on a fifth computer.
[10:31] <ChrisH> plovs: ;)
[10:33] <ChrisH> plovs: Nah, Ubuntu is completely great. At work the coworker I convinced to Ubuntu asked me how to install a printer.
[10:33] <plovs> :-)
[10:33] <ChrisH> plovs: I said "uh, well, never tried that. Is it cups? Or some evil magic? Or filters?"
[10:33] <ChrisH> plovs: 10 seconds later (he has never used Linux before) he said: "forget it, it works, test page is right now coming out"
[10:34] <plovs> cool
[10:34] <ChrisH> plovs: Ubuntu is great in every detail. And there is hardly any component behaving mad or crashing. I even got used to the multiple window ("spatial") approach since Gnome 2.6.
[10:34] <ChrisH> plovs: An editor wrote an article about the pros and cons of it versus the Windows "directory tree" view. He said he would never since have found so many files and directories he no longer used.
[10:35] <ChrisH> plovs: IMHO that's right. I have tidied up half of my home directory since I use windows.
[10:35] <plovs> you just have to change your thinking a bit
[10:35] <ChrisH> plovs: windows != Windows (TM)
[10:36] <ChrisH> plovs: Okay, okay, you got me. Actually I am an MCSE and Conical is just paying me to advertise Ubuntu in all channels. How did you find out?
[10:36] <plovs> so what if we cut the faq in pieces
[10:36] <plovs> ;)
[10:36] <plovs> and divide the pieces
[10:36] <ChrisH> plovs: divide and conquer?
[10:37] <plovs> but you must check what i write
[10:37] <plovs> yes
[10:37] <ChrisH> plovs: Did you try around a little with docbook already?
[10:38] <plovs> i just read some, most of the day i spend on MSsql
[10:38] <plovs> bleeh
[10:38] <ChrisH> eek
[10:40] <plovs> i think your intro about covers all we need for now, if not i'll complain and we'l add it
[10:41] <ChrisH> Actually docbook is quite easy IMHO. The greatest problem is to find the correct stylesheets, enter the right processing commands and understanding a few abbreviations.
[10:43] <plovs> conglomerate opens your text nicely
[10:45] <plovs> What text will we translate?
[10:47] <plovs> did you compare the wiki in support and this one?
[10:48] <ChrisH> Uh... you lost me. "wiki in support" versus "this one"?
[10:49] <ChrisH> Translate? I thought we would start putting the old FAQ into DocBook form.
[10:49] <plovs> duh, i am talking to my wife, studying and doing irc, sorry
[10:49] <plovs> i meant the one in support and the one in the wiki
[10:49] <ChrisH> As long as you don't call me "precious". :)
[10:49] <plovs> if you don't call me gollum
[10:50] <ChrisH> Awww... please? :)
[10:51] <ChrisH> You probably mean newfaqtest versus the Support/Documentation/FAQ page.
[10:51] <plovs> yes
[10:52] <ChrisH> Many items on the NewFAQTest page are already solved (like the "mono" issue). Would like to docbook that first?
[10:53] <plovs> sure
[10:54] <plovs> is there a reason you write short sentences? or should i write complete sentences and let the formatting be done later?
[10:54] <ChrisH> plovs: you mean the line breaks?
[10:54] <plovs> yes
[10:55] <ChrisH> plovs: It was the default setting in my vim. Makes it easier to jump around in the text IMHO than to go 2000 character to the right.
[10:56] <plovs> looks funny with diffirent pagewidth, though
[10:57] <plovs> question on the side, how do you pronounce router
[10:57] <plovs> with a sound like you
[10:57] <plovs> like a german u?
[10:57] <plovs> or like sauerkraut?
[10:57] <plovs> we had a discussion today here
[10:58] <plovs> look at: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1
[10:58] <plovs> they have a heading, then a question, then an answer
[10:59] <ChrisH> More like "roota".
[11:00] <ChrisH> Although english and american people seem to mix that as well.
[11:01] <plovs> ok, thought so too :-)
[11:02] <plovs> can you format it like in https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 ,with the extra header above every question?
[11:02] <ChrisH> plovs: Yes. I could swear this is configurable.
[11:05] <plovs> what if i work on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 and put it in docbook?
[11:06] <plovs> then we join them later
[11:06] <ChrisH> Sure. Whatever you like.
[11:06] <ChrisH> Seems to have a higher quality than the old faq wiki anyway.
[11:06] <plovs> then we unite and clen them up
[11:07] <plovs> clean
[11:08] <plovs> can you label qanda-sets?
[11:08] <nightlybuild> Hello doc team members
[11:09] <plovs> nightlybuild, hi
[11:10] <nightlybuild> I would like to start the french part of Ubuntu-doc
[11:10] <nightlybuild> i mean translate the doc
[11:12] <plovs> nice, welcome, we do not have any french docs yet
[11:12] <ChrisH> nightlybuild: hi!
[11:12] <ChrisH> plovs: No need to. Or is it? The TOC will reference those topic automatically.
[11:12] <nightlybuild> i just want to know if it will be better start with dev doc or end user doc ?
[11:12] <nightlybuild> Hi ChrisH
[11:13] <plovs> nightlybuild, end user docs, the other docs change all the time and all the devs read english
[11:13] <plovs> nightlybuild, they use english between themselves anyway
[11:13] <plovs> nightlybuild, would be a waste of time
[11:14] <ChrisH> nightlybuild: I second that. Ubuntu is way more confusing for end-users than for developers.
[11:14] <plovs> nightlybuild, the faq is probably the most important doc to translate
[11:14] <ChrisH> nightlybuild: That's why are intensively working on a good FAQ.
[11:15] <plovs> nightlybuild, look at: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq?full=1 this is important stuff 
[11:15] <nightlybuild> ok, so i will start a long-time collaborative translation with FAQ
[11:15] <plovs> nightlybuild, and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[11:15] <plovs> nightlybuild, remember that we are working on it so you might have to move stuff around later
[11:15] <plovs> nightlybuild, but most of the text will stay
[11:16] <plovs> ChrisH, wasn't there a mailinglist for translators?
[11:16] <ChrisH> Hmm... wouldn't it be better if we first wrote the FAQ in english and start to translate it when it's half done?
[11:16] <ChrisH> plovs: yes. ubuntu-translators@
[11:17] <plovs> well, the items won't change much i think
[11:17] <ChrisH> nightlybuild: Would you consider helping to tidy up the Wiki pages? We would really like your support in translating the FAQ. But it will probably take a day or two.
[11:17] <plovs> off course the frontpage is also a good thing to translate
[11:17] <ChrisH> plovs: Just think of the "mono" issue. You would translate the whole section it would just drop out.
[11:18] <nightlybuild> ChrisH: i'm here for along time job, not just for one day or two ;-)
[11:18] <ChrisH> At least three german writers are currently helping Canonical to translate such things as the main page.
[11:18] <plovs> nightlybuild, ChrisH is right
[11:18] <plovs> FrontPage ?
[11:18] <plovs> we need translator docs
[11:18] <ChrisH> That would probably just mean posting on ubuntu-translators or contacting lulu.
[11:19] <ChrisH> plovs: Hmmm, yes, probably.
[11:21] <plovs> nightlybuild, sending a mail to ubuntu-translators is a good idea
[11:21] <nightlybuild> proposing my sevices for translating "official" doc ?
[11:21] <nightlybuild> my services sorry ;-)
[11:22] <plovs> it's all official here :-)
[11:24] <nightlybuild> I've registred yet as ubuntu member ?
[11:24] <ChrisH> plovs: I'd like to stay but I have to get up again in 7 hours. I'll get the template ready asap tomorrow.
[11:25] <plovs> ChrisH, ok, i have to sleep as well, see ya!
[11:25] <ChrisH> nite...
[11:25] <ChrisH> nightlybuild: Please switch the light off, when you are done. :)
[11:25] <nightlybuild> good night
[11:25] <plovs> nightlybuild, it's all about the work you do
[11:26] <nightlybuild> plovs: ?
[11:26] <plovs> nightlybuild, you translate well, you're on the team
[11:26] <plovs> that's how it goes
[11:27] <nightlybuild> it couldn't be more simple ;-)
[11:27] <plovs> yep it is
[11:27] <nightlybuild> you are all working for canonical ,
[11:27] <nightlybuild> ?
[11:27] <plovs> i wish i was, but i am not
[11:28] <plovs> on the docteam, only enrico does
[11:28] <nightlybuild> may be one day ;-)
[11:29] <plovs> who knows?
[11:29] <plovs> so, the doc team thinks FAQ and FrontPage are important, but talk to the translator guys, they know better
[11:29] <plovs> and we are currently working on the faq, it will change
[11:30] <plovs> and ask the translator guys why they have no wiki-page
[11:30] <plovs> and say hi, from the doc-guys
[11:30] <plovs> and invite them to #ubuntu-doc
[11:31] <plovs> more answers i don't have ;-)
[11:31] <nightlybuild> i will post a request for french translation before going to bed ;-)
[11:31] <nightlybuild> See you plovs...
[11:32] <plovs> nightlybuild, see you next time!