mdzKamion: around?12:24
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Kamionmdz: briefly, but about to go to bed. what's up?01:12
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hazmatmdz, any thoughts on the jdk stuff?01:24
jdubhazmat: it's something that would end up in multiverse, if anywhere01:26
mdzKamion: nothing to wait up for, just wanted to chat about germinate/cd/installer stuff01:26
mdzhazmat: I posted to -devel about it01:26
Kamionmdz: I'll be around tomorrow evening, if you like01:28
mdzKamion: sounds fine, good night01:28
mdzKamion: feeling better?01:28
Kamionmdz: much, yeah, kicked off most of it on Friday and Saturday01:29
Kamionmdz: good catch on bugreporter-udeb, btw, that had been at the back of my mind for ages and managed to fall out01:30
pittinight everybody!01:32
hazmatmdz, i was referring to the private emails sent re licensing01:34
hazmatand distribution01:34
mdzhazmat: oh, regarding gentoo?01:35
mdzI don't think it gives us any direct course of action01:35
mdzwe could certainly ask for different licensing terms01:36
hazmati'm not sure how it fits into the licensing policy on the ubuntu site.. but it does appear that it would be possible to make an agreement by talking with folks at ibm.01:36
Kamionthe question would be what it means for Ubuntu derivatives01:36
mdzhow it fits into the licensing policy is that since no source code is available, it won't go in main, and thus won't go on the CD01:37
mdzand thus won't be installed by default01:37
mdzbut if we can redistribute it, it can go in the package repository so that users can easily install it if they want it01:37
hazmati'd just like to see some option for package based installation of java apps/systems01:37
mdzto be honest, I think that the free java situation is better than most people think01:38
Kamionif it's under restrictive terms (either to us or to derivatives of Ubuntu), it should go in restricted or multiverse so that we aren't pretending to people that it's free01:38
mdzand that if someone invested serious effort in looking at the free java implementations, finding the most appropriate one, and integrating it well with the system, it could turn out quite nicely01:38
Kamiona large part of the licensing policy is about not lying to people01:38
mdzKamion: right, it would only be eligible for multiverse01:38
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hazmatmdz, gcj is useable for certain classes of apps. but for alot of things from azurerus (bt client) to tomcat, its just not going to work.01:39
mdzI got tomcat to start up with gij a couple of years ago01:39
mdzit didn't serve requests, of course :-)01:39
mdzbut that was quite some time ago now01:40
mdzmy understanding is that kaffe and sablevm are more complete than gij01:40
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Kamionnight folks01:40
hazmat interesting.. i'll take a look, thats cool re tomcat01:41
hazmatmdz, but it would require also packaging up those apps differently i assume then a jre based package install?01:41
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hazmatfor gcj that is01:42
mdzhazmat: gij is a bytecode interpreter01:42
=== hazmat is learning more by the second ;-)
hazmatcool, i'll take a look, thanks01:43
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Matt|ummm... after the hoary updates this afternoon, gnome takes much longer to load. Any ideas why this might be? is it because of the removal of the fam package?02:09
mdzMatt|: I wouldn't expect so02:13
Matt|hi mdz 02:14
Matt|sorry if this is the wrong chan for that question02:14
Matt|i haven't changed anything else except for updating hoary02:14
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Matt|mdz, any further ideas? you haven't seen this problem?02:16
mdzno, I haven't02:17
Matt|you think i should leave it?02:18
mdzI'm sorry, but I'm quite busy and can't help you with this just now02:22
Matt|ok np02:23
mdzmaybe someone on #ubuntu can02:23
Matt|sorry for pestering02:23
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tuo2netspilty goodness.03:47
jdubmdz: are we fundamentally set on 'no cd re-releases'?03:50
jdubmdz: "The Ubuntu installation took four more hours because of all the updates it had to drag down over my crappy 128kb/s line, but it was worth it. I particularly like the chocolate colour they use for the background. Mmm, chocolate."04:02
mdzjdub: I don't think I buy that figure, even at 128kbps04:08
jdubwhere are we at in MB?04:08
mdzI'd estimate ~2004:10
mdzwhich at 128kbps is ~20 minutes04:10
mdzand we deliberately made it optional to download updates from the network for exactly this reason04:11
mdza single xfree86 update could be more than all of the existing updates combined04:11
mdzand they will happen, especially the day after a point release04:12
jdubby the six or twelve month point, it might be significantly larger04:16
mdzMark and I discussed the idea of security update CDs, which I think solves the problem in a nicer way than point releases04:17
mdzrelease a CD with _only_ the security updates, which automagically installs them when you insert it04:17
mdzthen warty stays warty forever04:18
mdzno confusion over which version of the install CD you downloaded04:18
jduboh right04:19
jdubwould version-confusion really be a problem?04:20
mdzit already was for us during the pre-warty period04:22
jdubthat makes sense though04:22
jdubbecause that's pre-final04:22
jdubthe version actually matters04:22
jdubthe installer's changing, etc.04:22
mdzpoint releases also require install regression testing04:22
mdzwhile security update CDs don't04:22
jdubmmm, there's currently no way to use those directly from the installer though04:23
mdzit wouuld be so trivial if we hadn't disabled autorun :-/04:23
mdz(assuming it works in warty if enabled)04:24
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lupus_is it normal if you make a link with nautilius and then move the link to another dir04:27
lupus_it can not find the app it was pointing to anymore?04:27
lupus_nm 04:29
lupus_I see the problem04:29
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fabbionemorning guys05:57
fabbionemdz: you are supposed to be in holidays.. no?06:14
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fabbionehey doko07:55
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fabbionedoko: gcc-3.3.4 was giving tons of FAIL07:56
fabbionei am trying to build 3.3.5 now07:56
fabbionei saw in the changelog something about sparc07:56
fabbioneperhaps the 2 are related07:57
dokomoin fabbione07:58
dokowith x.org?07:58
fabbioneno no.. i am talking about the sparc port07:58
fabbionegcc was failing all the test suite07:58
fabbionei am not building x.org yet on sparc07:58
fabbionephase1 of main yet :-)07:59
dokough, could you have a look at build/gcc/testsuite/*.log to see if the failures do have the same cause? if you want to speed up the build, maybe set WITHOUT_LANGUAGES=ada,java,objc,f77,treelang08:00
fabbionei guess the next 3 packages will take ages08:00
fabbionedoko: sorry.. i already killed the chroot08:01
fabbionei am going to check 3.3.508:01
fabbionethe other one was 3.3.4-9ubuntuX08:01
fabbionebut if it will fail i will grab logs for you08:01
fabbionetake into account this is a sid chroot building ubuntu packages for the first time08:01
fabbione--take(hoary): gcc-3.3_1:3.3.5-2 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd08:02
fabbione--take(hoary): gcc-3.4_3.4.3-0ubuntu0 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd08:02
fabbione--take(hoary): perl_5.8.4-4 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd08:02
fabbionethis means at least 4 days of work08:02
dokowondering what is different from unstable...08:03
fabbionedoko: in theory nothing08:03
fabbionesince it's a sid chroot08:04
fabbionewell we will see08:04
fabbionein the worst case i will figure a way to give you access and poke around :-)08:04
fabbionethis is sparc64...08:05
fabbionei wonder if it is using automatically the call to sparc32 before building08:05
fabbionewell i will take a look and see08:05
fabbioneit's nothing urgent atm08:05
dokoit fails in stage1?08:10
dokothe call to sparc32 isn't done automagically, IIRC I explicitely call 'sparc32 dpkg-buildpackage ...'08:12
fabbionedoko: that's what i am afraid of in buildd/sbuild setup08:27
fabbionei will see when it goes to the testsuite again08:28
fabbionebut other packages buildded fine08:28
Mithrandirfabbione: that mail to -devel will just cause everybody to try to install hoary. :)08:29
fabbioneso they will probably learn that playing with unstable is not a good idea08:32
bob2then they will whinge08:33
bob2and say "ubuntu is unstable, LOLZ!!!1 Im r going back 2 gentoo."08:34
dokofabbione: touching /etc/disable_64_gcc will ensure, that -m32 is append to the arguments, iff you call 'gcc'.08:34
fabbionedoko: interesting..08:34
fabbionei will try that switch if it will still fails08:34
Mithrandirthom: moo?08:46
jdubbob2: "u may have x.org, but warez my window shadowz? HA HA! rofl"08:59
bob2jdub: and then when composite is enabled, "omg ubuntu is teh slowz0r"08:59
fabbioneand teh unst4bl309:00
fabbionegiven that daniels is alive and awake09:00
=== Mithrandir notes the video capture on the p150 is surprisingly good.
fabbionejeppa.. new compiler!09:01
fabbionebye bye ccache :-)09:01
fabbioneah crap 09:03
fabbionei need to hack the hp44109:03
fabbionenone of the obviuos passwords work09:03
Mithrandirtried 31337?09:07
fabbioneuser1 user2 user3 user4 no passwd :-)09:12
fabbioneroot passwd is now owned :-)09:12
fabbionewarty live is pretty useful09:12
bob2heh, what were they preinstalled with?09:13
fabbionethe boot sequence is nice..09:13
fabbionei took some pics..09:13
fabbionethe X config is easy09:13
fabbionenow the real issue is to understand how much they did patch to make everything working09:13
fabbionekernel is custom09:14
fabbionei know that X wants a patch to work in that environment09:14
fabbioneand i can't check all the audio devices (yet)09:14
fabbioneMY EYES09:18
fabbionethere is KDE3.109:18
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mvo_good morning!09:26
fabbionehey mvo_ 09:27
fabbionedoesn't it look cute?09:34
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dokofabbione: you need flat screens.09:40
bob2you have entirely too much hardware, fabbione 09:41
fabbionedoko: ehehe09:41
fabbionebob2: it's never enough when you maintain X09:42
bob2fabbione: hah09:42
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pittimvo_: Hello Mr. Dipl.-Inf! Congratulations for finishing your Diploma and university!09:55
mvo_hey pitti 10:00
mvo_thanks a lot!10:00
bob2oh, congrats, mvo10:00
bob2do we get you fulltime now?10:00
mvo_bob2: yes :)10:01
Mithrandirmvo_: you're done?  Congrats! :)10:03
mvo_Mithrandir: yeah! thanks. yesterday was my research presentation, now it's done10:04
MithrandirI envy you.. I'm doing a project now, then diploma thesis in spring.10:05
mvo_it feels good when it's over, diploma thesis was a lot of work10:06
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pittiHappy birthday, justdave!10:14
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danielsjustdave: happy birthday :)10:30
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mvo_hi rabidbt 10:45
mvo_hi rburton :)10:45
rburtonhi nci)10:45
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Mithrandirjustdave: congrats :)10:48
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ChrisHHmm. Has anyone else seen conflicts between libxklavier8 and libxklavier9 when dist-upgrade'ing to hoary?11:14
ChrisHPurging ...8 isn't wise either since it wants to remove some hardly used things like "nautilus". ;)11:15
ChrisHPerhaps I should file a bug report.11:15
seb128libxklavier9 Replaces libxklavier811:16
bob2I got it a couple of days ago, it might be fixed now11:16
seb128no, it's not11:17
seb128nobody reported anything, I've not changed anything so ...11:17
=== ChrisH reports
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ChrisHseb128: like a bugzilla entry?11:18
bob2I figured it was a x.org thing11:18
seb128but you could start by giving the error/pb here :)11:18
seb128perhaps, I've not idea of what your are talking about, out of the fact that's a libxklavier problem11:19
bob2sure, getting ahead of myself, sorry :)11:19
ChrisHseb128: Ok. :) Just upgraded from warty to hoary. Everything went well unless that upgrading libxklavier8 failed because of conflicts in an XML file (need to scroll back to see what it was).11:20
ChrisHseb128: Currently libxclavier8 and libxclavier9 are both installed so the "Replaces" or "Conflits" didn't seem to work.11:20
seb128ChrisH: the weird thing is that libxklavier9 has a "Replaces"11:20
ChrisHseb128: If I want to remove libxclavier8 now I wants to remove many base packages.11:20
seb128I've not set a Conflicts11:20
ChrisHseb128: "Replaces" should be sufficient.11:20
seb128that's why I've not set the conflict for the moment :p11:21
seb128$ apt-cache show libxklavier9 | grep Replace11:21
seb128Replaces: libxklavier7, libxklavier811:21
ChrisHseb128: I can even reinstall libxklavier9 and it does not start to remove anything else.11:22
seb128it's not supposed to remove something11:23
seb128do you still have the exact error message ?11:23
ChrisHseb128: I try.11:23
danielsseb128: um, you need Conflicts as well11:24
bob2they can't conflict11:25
fabbioneor otherwise remove that xfree86.xml11:25
bob2tons of stuff is built against 8 still11:25
danielsConflicts: otherpackage (<< versionwhereyoumovedthefileover)11:25
fabbioneand use /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86.xml11:25
danielsif they both provide the same file at the same time, the only solution is alternatives11:25
fabbioneall of this because libxklavier upstream is a sadist developer that loves to duplicate mess around11:26
fabbionelike if one xfree86.xml isn't enough source of problems11:26
ChrisHseb128: Can't get it to spit out the error message again. Scrolled out of my terminal buffer.11:26
seb128ChrisH: ok ...11:26
fabbioneseb128: 9 tries to overwrite /usr/share/something/xfree86.xml11:27
seb128it has a Replaces11:27
fabbioneit's the same error i told you about yesterday11:27
seb128that should not be a problem11:27
fabbioneit is not enough11:27
seb128why ?11:27
fabbioneyou need to conflicts11:27
fabbionesee what daniels wrote above11:27
seb128I know but if I don't that I totally fuck GNOME time to rebuild all the packages11:27
seb128so I'll add the conflict later11:28
fabbioneseb128: sane thing to do: kill xfree86.xml from /usr/share11:28
seb128but it's probably needed 11:28
fabbionethat's the only thing you really need to do11:28
danielshuh? why is libxklavier providing its own xfree86.xml anyway?11:28
fabbioneseb128: use /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86.xml please11:28
seb128I'll try this11:28
fabbionedaniels: it uses it as test suite (build time)11:28
fabbioneand even tho.. that's stupid11:29
danielsjust build-dep on xlibs, or xlibs-data11:29
fabbioneit should use the X provided one11:29
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thomMithrandir: oink?11:55
thomMithrandir: that was in response to your moo of earlier11:58
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Mitariolo everyone11:59
Mithrandirthom: oh, do you think you could test a libc package for me?11:59
Mithrandirbefore I upload it?11:59
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Mithrandirthom: ravel:~tfheen/hoary/libc6_*.deb11:59
Mithrandirthom: they work on ravel, if they don't blow up on your system, I think they're fine.12:01
=== thom hops in the shower while that downloads
Mithrandirthom: also please see if it fixes the fakeroot issue12:01
thomwas gonna, yeah12:02
thomdo they for you?12:02
thomrock, what did you change?12:05
=== tuo2 laughs.
Mithrandirthom: removed GLIBC_PASSES += nptl12:07
Mithrandirsince we use nptl anyway and TLS.12:07
thomyeah, they solve the fakeroot issue for me12:08
thomand nothing else has broken :-)12:08
Mithrandirthat's neat.12:08
MithrandirI guess I can upload, then. :)12:08
thomplease do12:08
madducklamont: ping?12:14
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robtaylorwho'se working on laptop support?12:21
bob2mjg59 is Mr Mad Phat Laptop Support12:21
Mithrandirat least mr mad. :)12:21
robtaylorheh.. *at least* ;)12:22
Mithrandirhe's crazy.  A really good guy.12:22
robtaylormjg59: shampoo rock. thats all i have to say.. are you around? 12:22
robtaylorMithrandir: mjg59 and tbm were at my housewarming on saturday - a good time was had by all :)12:24
ddaabob2: mjg59 _almost_ got my t42p fully functional on sunday, but then he gave up. For some unknown reason, hotplug was breaking acpi and prevented wakeup...12:28
bob2close tho12:29
robtaylorddaa: t42p?12:30
ddaarobtaylor: yeah12:31
=== robtaylor tries to think how hotplug could break acpi :/
robtaylorv. odd12:31
ddaahis guess was that hotplug triggered a timing problem12:32
ddaarace condition or something like that12:32
robtaylorwhat were the symptoms?12:32
ddaayou can check the log for sunday, he gave some data...12:33
=== ddaa looks for an url
ddaabut then you do not have his source package either12:33
robtaylorah, just interested ;)12:33
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ddaaat the bottom of the page12:34
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robtaylorddaa: hmmmmm12:40
robtaylorddaa: sounds like thats gonna need a bit of kernel tracing to figure it out..12:41
ddaanot my dept, really12:41
robtaylorheh, indeed12:41
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elmoKamion: done - and wvstreams wasn't going in because mdz broke katie, fixed/worked around now01:00
mjg59robtaylor: Yo01:01
Kamionelmo: heh, ok, thanks. Out of curiosity, what was broken?01:01
Kamionelmo: hopefully that should pull libfam out of desktop, btw01:02
elmomythmusic has gotten into some very confused state - the files are in the pool, but not the DB, AFAICT01:04
Kamionoh, bleh, the priorities in our override file are fucked, makes it a pain to use dselect01:04
=== Kamion must go through and work out which need to be demoted to < standard
elmoI started on that before warty released but never finished - I think I managed to demote anything not in main at least01:05
fabbionehey elmo01:06
danielselmo: when do you expect to be around today?01:06
elmohey fabbione01:07
elmodaniels: the rest of the day, I guess01:07
danielselmo: cool; hi, btw :)01:07
fabbioneelmo: testing the last bits for X.org here01:08
fabbionewe will need your help to get it in the archive01:08
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Kamionlamont: can we start doing daily d-i builds for Hoary?01:09
elmofabbione: ok01:10
danielselmo: should be two NEW (xorg and xorg-driver-synaptics) for two removed (xfree86 and xfree86-driver-synaptics) for core stuff01:10
danielselmo: plus an xcompmgr package at some stage also01:10
danielselmo: (the new source packages coming with a crapload more binary packages, because we know lamont enjoys pain)01:11
fabbioneand people will have to complain to jdub for them01:11
jdubfabbione: hrm?01:14
seb128fabbione: the copy/paste with emacs is supposed to be fixed ?01:14
elmoseed syncage ---> baby jesus == :-(((01:14
fabbioneseb128: no01:15
danielselmo: wouldn't that be baby jesus == :'(01:15
seb128because it's not :p01:15
fabbionejdub: for all the libs you want splitted to look 3133701:15
fabbioneseb128: the problem is not emacs01:15
fabbionei can copy & paste from emacs to xterm for eg.01:15
fabbionethe problem are gtk1 application as carlos wrote already on the mailing list01:16
elmofiglet                                     | figlet                           | apache (Build-Depend)          01:16
danielselmo: baby jesus isn't crying, he's just confused01:16
fabbionethat's something we changed in debian01:16
jdubfabbione: why so?01:16
seb128fabbione: yeah, I know, I speak about emacs because that's the anoying part for me :p I don't know how the copy/paste internals work ...01:16
fabbionejdub: "why so" what?01:16
danielsseb128: it's gtk1 crack01:16
carlosseb128: use gvim :-P01:16
seb128$ apt-cache show emacs21 | grep gtk01:17
jdubfabbione: what do the X libs have to do with me?01:17
fabbionejdub: you have been complaining that we are not 31337 if we don't show libxcomposite & CO.01:17
fabbionenot me01:17
fabbionethat leads to a 16 libraries split01:17
fabbione* 301:17
=== jdub hasn't been "complaining", i've just pointed out a problem with the current packages
robtaylormjg59: hey :) done any playing about with toshiba tecras?01:18
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fabbionejdub: you pointed out a non-existing problem :-)01:18
robtaylormjg59: (oh, and did you enjoy the party? :)01:18
fabbionethere are 48 more packages01:18
jdubfabbione: there are no dynamic libs for xcomposite atm - that problem exists...01:18
fabbioneas soon as we finish to test we will upload01:18
fabbioneand what is the problem if i ship them static?01:19
Kamionwe need a Unicode character for "baby jesus" to simplify elmo's equations01:19
fabbioneKamion: lol01:19
=== Kamion was thinking of the bad-taste version: a crucifix, but with a smaller human figure ...
=== Mithrandir looks at elmo staring at the figlet build-deps for apache and snickers.
elmofabbione: dude, figlet's in non-free01:20
fabbioneelmo: it's still in main01:20
jdubfabbione: um, i'm not criticising your work here, dude, i'm just pointing out an issue that will need to be solved at some stage for hoary.01:20
fabbionejdub: if you can explain me the issue...01:20
mjg59robtaylor: Haven't touched a tecra, so no real idea. And yes, what I remember of it...01:20
fabbionejdub: once i provide you the headers and the lib to link with.. what do you miss?01:21
jdubfabbione: currently we only have static xcomposite libs. at some stage, we should also have separate dynamic lib packages.01:21
mjg59Is the Xcomposite ABI frozen yet?01:21
danielsmjg59: yes01:21
elmofabbione: yeah, the maintainer didn't, err, manage to transition it to non-free yet01:21
fabbioneelmo: ah ok...01:22
fabbioneelmo: i will fix it for the next upload. don't worry01:22
danielsi think fabio's point was that libxcomposite has always worked, it's just been non-dynamic up until now; splitting stuff out into dynamic packages caused a massive split so we've now got ~48 new packages01:22
Kamionelmo: hm, #274950 about that is closed?01:22
fabbioneelmo: but it's too much fun to see a dynamic buildlog changing "size" according to the arch it's building on01:22
Mithrandirelmo: so we need to reimplement figlet in a free fashion.01:22
fabbioneelmo: and according to the buildd maintainer01:23
KamionMithrandir: track down the original authors, they clearly intended it to be free but just didn't put the right boilerplate on it01:23
Kamionwell, some of them, anyway01:24
MithrandirKamion: any idea if they've been talked to yet?01:24
KamionMithrandir: no clue01:24
Kamionelmo: can I have rootskel-bootfloppy too, please?01:25
=== berge [berge@altersex.samfundet.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Mithrandir waves to berge
=== berge waves to everyone.
=== berge is now known as Berge
BergeI'm setting up Ubuntu on a laptop here. So far, I'm impressed (-:01:29
BergeThough it lacks a decent GUI-way (since this friend of mine (really!) likes GUI) of configuring wireless interfaces.01:29
BergeSo Mithrandir points me to Network Manager.01:30
Kamionyeah, we'll be getting NetworkManager in Hoary01:30
robtaylormjg59: heh. good, good :)01:30
Mithrandirdoesn't thom have some debs lying about?01:30
fabbionelibs/db3_3.2.9-20 [required:uncompiled] 01:30
elmoKamion: yeah, the maintainer thought he transitioned it, but he ended up putting the source in main, the binary in non-free and broke - I unbroke it and let him know a couple of weeks ago I think01:30
BergeI found those..01:30
fabbionedoes it mean is going to be built?01:30
Kamionelmo: d'oh01:30
Kamionelmo: should I reopen that bug?01:30
elmokamion: yeah, probably a plan01:31
elmorootskel-bootfloppy done01:31
Kamion.changes file looks like it was the source in non-free and the binary in main01:31
Kamionelmo: done01:32
fabbioneelmo: if i flush the binary packages in one archive and i re-run quinn-diff with an update Packages file, will the old packages be rescheduled for build?01:33
=== Kamion inches towards being able to build Ubuntu floppies, one "day" at a time. :)
elmofabbione: should be, yes01:34
Kamionthough what I'll test them on I'm not quite sure; guess I can do an i386 install with floppies on amd64, for true retro value01:34
fabbioneelmo: so it's normal that wanna-build --list=installed01:34
fabbionegives a short list of packages?01:34
=== fabbione isn
=== fabbione isn't really sure
elmofabbione: 'installed' means "built - nothing needs done", if you flushed the archive, you'd expect most evertything to be in 'needs-build'01:35
fabbioneelmo: so basically wanna-build is "inconsistent" and i need to kill its db01:35
elmo*shrug* it's usually the quickest way to get w-b to behave, yeah 01:36
fabbioneit's not a problem really01:37
fabbionei figured that i was building 64 bit binaries for sparc01:37
fabbioneand that's why gcc was failing01:37
fabbioneso i need to rebuild everything anyway01:37
fabbione(not that it did build that much)01:37
cenerentolasorry does someone know where lulu is?01:42
fabbioneelmo: danke! it's working now01:44
lulucenerentola: I'm dealing with your request at the moment. I will email you shortly.01:45
cenerentolalulu: you're precious01:45
cenerentolawho's gonna come with me on saturday night in mataro?01:45
danielsgod, I love adare almost as much as I adore concordia01:49
danielsxorg is looking good thus far on powerpc and amd64; of course, thanks to the fact i386 is crap, it's probably totally broken there :P01:49
fabbioneexcept that i386 is the only arch where we can do real testing atm :P01:53
=== Berge [berge@altersex.samfundet.no] has left #ubuntu-devel []
carlosAnyone knows why aptitude wants to reinstall any package I remove with synaptic or dpkg ?02:16
thombecause aptitude sucks monkey nuts, and has a solipsism complex02:20
danielssomeone should fix that02:20
Kamionsigh, 2.6 installer floppies are way oversized02:20
Kamion-rw-r--r--   1 root root 1017902 2004-11-08 16:09 vmlinuz02:20
Kamion-rw-r--r--   1 root root  689701 2004-11-09 12:49 initrd.gz02:20
fabbionecan't we split the initrd on the second floppy?02:21
Kamionfabbione: we do02:21
Kamionthis is just what's needed on the first floppy02:21
=== Zeris [~h8e5s9@cw08.F2.srv.t-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionI suppose I could strip out USB storage modules, but that's a big functionality kick02:22
fabbionedo you target these floppies to install from non-bootable cdrom?02:23
ddaathom: aptitude rocks. Therefore what you call "solipsism complex" is just the rest of the world not adapting to aptitude :-)02:23
ddaathom: but if you can tell me about something else that handles automatic removal of uneeded packages...02:24
fabbioneddaa: debfoster or deborphan02:25
thomddaa: um, you're on even more drugs than usual02:25
=== mojo [~mojo@220-244-212-78-vic.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlosthom: I thought aptitude was the "recomended" application by Ubuntu team over apt-get ...02:25
mojohi everyone02:26
fabbionecarlos: that locale error is not an error02:26
fabbionecarlos: it's a warning02:26
mjg59ddaa: Ok, I have what seems to be a sane kernel :)02:26
thomcarlos: i don't remember anyone saying that :-)02:26
carlosfabbione: yes, sorry02:26
carlosfabbione: I know, I always confuse it02:26
seb128thom: do you know that firefox is ftbfsing on amd64 ?02:27
carlosfabbione: I mean, I know it's harmless, but I always talk about it as an error where I should say warning02:27
thomseb128: yes02:27
carlosthom: I don't remember I saw it O:-)02:27
carlosthom: I don't remember where I saw it O:-)02:27
thommithrandir has fixed glbic02:27
mojowhen seb128 upload the new 1.0 Firefox???02:27
seb128thom: ok, just wanted to be sure. Some people were complaining yesterday because devhelp is broken (out of sync between the amd64 and all packages) 02:28
thommojo: i'll probably upload it tomorrow morning02:28
thomseb128: yeah :( nasty fakeroot/NPTL issue02:28
mjg59ddaa: Uploading it now. It does STR and STD here02:29
thomi'll wait till i can check lamont has refreshed the buildds then push a 1.002:29
mojoseb128: I went to the GNOME board, they said they fixed the blur SVG image issue of gnome-games in 2.9.1 but I still find SVG images in Solitaire and some other games are still blur02:29
ddaamjg59: I cannot test it right now (I training my lappy to be a production machine), but I will _surely_ do it.02:29
mjg59ddaa: Rock02:30
seb128mojo: you filled a bug report ?02:30
=== ph [~ph@pD9587342.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59robtaylor: Got a kernel here for you to test if you have a chance02:30
mojoseb128: not yet, still wondering is it Ubuntu bug or GNOME itself bug02:30
ddaathom: not an drug, i have tried deborphan, and it is not effective.02:31
mojoseb128: the Clear Recent Document's Clear Button does not work here, maybe u should have a check on this02:31
mjg59It's confusing, though. I seem to be using almost identical ACPI code.02:32
thomddaa: when you say that a well built system should change because one app can't play nice with it, you're on drugs.02:32
ddaaactually, aptitude takes the right approach: auto-marking needs to be done in the package manager.02:32
mjg59Oh, arse. This won't have the acpi_wakeup_address->physical address thing.02:32
seb128mojo: there is a bug report about it, do you have "gamin" installed ?02:32
ddaathom: there was a smilie02:32
ddaaI have extensive first hand experience in software with a solipsism complex. And I assure you that at least _some_ people would push that line.02:33
thomautomarking, sure. but reinstalling something that dpkg has marked as removed? no.02:33
mojoseb128: let me check02:34
Kamionfabbione: cd_drivers or net_drivers, you choose02:34
ddaathom: sure. It's on crack. But it's the only package manager that does automarking...02:34
mojoseb128: yes, I got "gamin" already installed02:34
Kamionfabbione: if you use cd_drivers as the driver floppy, it'll retrieve more udebs from CD; if you use net_drivers, it'll retrieve udebs from a networked archive02:34
fabbioneKamion: kill the net driver if the floppies are done to be able to access the cdrom02:35
seb128mojo: in fact I've the problem too, I'll work on this later02:35
Kamionfabbione: no.02:35
Kamionfabbione: WHY?02:35
Kamionfabbione: net_drivers is a SEPARATE FLOPPY02:35
Kamionas is cd_drivers02:35
fabbioneKamion: you said before that you can kill usb keyboard whatever to make 2.6 fitting in one floppy02:36
Kamionthe boot floppy knows how to load more floppies and a bit of hardware and that's about it02:36
fabbionesoi tought that perpaps you can kill netdrivers from the floppy and get tehm from cdrom02:36
KamionI didn't say anything about USB keyboards02:36
Kamionplease look at the package list before continuing :)02:36
fabbioneKamion: never mind me.. really.. i just got confused02:36
mojoseb128: and Trash can't empty files too!!!!02:37
seb128mojo: that's a devel branch, use warty if you want a stable system02:37
mojoseb128: ofcourse I know, I'm testing it with u guys now02:38
seb128ok, so don't "!!!!!"02:38
seb128just report problem, I'm already working on something02:38
mojoseb128: sorry, abit sentimental with Ubuntu, (really love Ubuntu )02:38
Kamionanyone understand http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wvstreams/3.75.0-1ubuntu3/wvstreams_3.75.0-1ubuntu3_20041109-1202-i386-failed ?02:39
danielsKamion: sure, jadetex exited with status 1 for some reason02:39
fabbionedaniels: probably he would like to know the reason :-)02:40
danielsjade:E: cannot open "/usr/lib/sgml/stylesheet/dsssl/docbook/nwalsh/print/docbook.dsl" (No such file or directory)02:40
danielsjade:E: specification document does not have the DSSSL architecture as a base architecture02:40
danielscould well be related02:40
mojoseb128: please include d4x in Hoary, I got my friends working hard to create a pure GNOME theme for it + some hack on icon and about menu02:41
thommojo: you need to suggest it on the wiki, then we'll discuss it and the tech board will make a decission on whether it's suitable02:42
Kamionhm, there was some alternatives bug I dimly remember ...02:42
mojothom: OK I willm but the thing is I can't maintain nor create the package, I'm new to Deb file, can someone give me a hand??02:42
Kamionsurely d4x has a Debian maintainer already02:43
Kamion       d4x | 2.5.0rel-1 |      unstable | source, i386, powerpc02:43
Kamionso I don't see why somebody needs to "create the package"02:43
mojoKamion: I want to make an optimized + hacked menu and theme for Ubuntu02:44
=== daniels watches concordia run laps around adare.
Kamiondaniels: aha, turned out to be that docbook-dsssl recently dropped the /usr/lib/sgml compatibility symlinks03:00
pittiddaa: does this tbp daemon run as root?03:00
danielsKamion: sensational03:00
danielsKamion: who needs 'em? :)03:00
Kamiondaniels: untested fix uploaded :-)03:00
pittiddaa: if so, we could easily fix #3292 without introducing a new group03:00
Kamionit's all /usr/share/sgml now03:01
danielsaj: oi03:04
thomMithrandir: libc upload? :-)03:04
danielsKamion: oh, you may know03:04
danielsKamion: does britney log stuff anywhere?03:05
danielsKamion: e.g. is there an easy way for me to get a delta of testing from oct 7th->19th03:05
danielsKamion: (hypothetically)03:05
=== thom goes to rescue an Alpha
=== mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jvwdaniels: just diff the packages files obtained via snapshot?03:06
danielshm, point03:06
Kamiondaniels: britney doesn't really log usefully, no03:07
jvwdaniels: it's how this historical madison thingy works, anyway :)03:07
jvw(that aba was referring to)03:07
danielsjvw: ah, heh03:07
jvw(not exactly, it dumps all packages files in a database, first, but ok...)03:08
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=== doko [doko@dsl-082-082-069-185.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
robtaylormjg59: for tecra?03:11
ddaapitti: I cannot be positive, but I do not think that running it as root would be possible or a good idea.03:11
pittiddaa: so this is not a daemon?03:12
mjg59robtaylor: Generic nice ACPI love03:12
ddaaOne major feature is the ability to bind shell commands to special keys.03:12
pittiddaa: just an userspace program?03:12
ddaapitti: yup03:12
pittiddaa: argh; I find it totally ugly to give normal users the capability to mess up their BIOS settings03:12
ddaait it does not even double-fork03:12
pittiddaa: this sounds like a suid root problem03:13
danielsWHOO WHOO WHOO WHOO!03:13
danielsamd64 is *go* for xorg.03:13
pittiddaa: meaning, I think it makes more sense to have tbp suid root and leave the device as root-only accessible03:13
pittidaniels: GO, X-MEN, GO!03:13
danielsand my god is concordia a beautiful machine03:13
=== ddaa tries
mjg59pitti: That's require some extra code for tpb03:14
pittiddaa: it might me slightly better to have tbp setgid nvram, and create the group03:14
pittimjg59: ?03:14
mjg59pitti: It can be configured to run applications03:14
ddaapitti: it works okay with sudo03:14
mjg59So you'd need to drop privileges03:14
ddaaexcept, of course, the custom command for special keys is run as root...03:15
ddaahere it is bound to x-terminal-emulator03:15
pittimjg59: it sounds like the tbp design is screwed up from the ground up03:15
pittithere should be a daemon which communicates with /dev/nvram and an userspace program that talks to the daemon03:15
mjg59pitti: Oh, and it'll read arbitrary configuration files. So that'd have to be disabled, too, otherwise the user can get information about the contents of shadow (for isntance)03:15
ddaaso, now, it spawn a root terminal...03:15
pittiddaa: ah, I see the problem03:16
mjg59pitti: Yes, in the brave new world of sensible messaging busses, that's be the right way of doing it03:16
pittiddaa: however, I cannot test this program here03:16
pittimjg59: any quickfix idea?03:16
pittimjg59: _apart_ from putting users into nvram?03:16
mjg59pitti: No03:16
ddaapitti: I'd happily let you play with it in mataro.03:16
mjg59If you're going to make the binary suid or sgid, it needs heavy reworking03:16
pittiddaa: good idea, we can find a solution there03:17
pittimjg59: suid root with sensible privilege dropping shouldn't be so difficult03:18
pittimjg59: that's not the same as using sudo03:18
mjg59pitti: At the moment, I think it reads the config file before trying to open /dev/nvram03:18
mjg59So you'd need to change that03:18
pittimjg59: the command would still have getuid() == normal user, but can use root privileges for accessing the device03:18
mjg59Seriously, it will need chunks rewriting03:19
pittimjg59, ddaa: agree to fix that in Mataro? Then I can "deprivilegize" it and we can test it on ddaa's machine03:19
pittimjg59: sure03:19
mjg59It's also never been audited03:19
mjg59So it's entirely possible that the user will have access rights to nvram anyway03:19
pittimjg59: well, not by now03:19
pittimjg59: since /dev/nvram is only accessible as root and tbp is  not suid root currently (AFAIUI)03:20
mjg59What's the argument against adding the user to nvram?03:20
pittimjg59: access to nvram means access to BIOS settings, right?03:20
pittimjg59: at least that's the documentation03:20
mjg59pitti: Uh. But tpb will have access rights to nvram. And we have no confidence that tpb can't be made to run arbitrary code03:20
mjg59pitti: Correct03:20
mjg59But the default user has physical access to the machine anyway03:20
pittimjg59: and I _don't_ want user viruses to mess up the BIOS03:21
pittimjg59: not necessarily03:21
mjg59It's CMOS03:21
mjg59It's not the flash03:21
mjg59The worst they can do is reset the machine to system defaults03:21
pittimjg59: in our university, the computers are locked, but the CD-ROMs are accessible03:21
danielsmjg59: ... which is still not cool ...03:21
mjg59They can't rewrite the BIOS itself03:21
pittimjg59: but they can alter the boot sequence, i. e. boot from CD-ROM03:21
mjg59pitti: They could open the machines in any case03:22
pittimjg59: I could break our university's computers with this03:22
lupus_does the new pmount also support non removable devices?03:22
lupus_in the new version03:22
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pittimjg59: no, as I said, our machines are physically locked03:22
pittilupus_: what do you mean?03:22
mjg59pitti: They could use a hacksaw03:22
pittimjg59: people _might_ notice that :-)03:22
mjg59pitti: But fundamentally, making user-level programs suid or sgid is insane03:23
lupus_pitti pmount will give error if you use it for a partition on the harddrive03:23
mjg59The author won't have written it with security in mind. It's going to require a full audit. It'd make more sense to rewrite it from scratch.03:23
pittimjg59: well, sgid nvram is no worse than putting the user into nvram03:23
pittilupus_: right, that's our current policy03:23
mjg59pitti: Except that you're giving people a false sense of security03:23
lupus_k so policy is still the same in the new version ? :)03:23
mjg59Which *is* worse than making it obvious03:23
mjg59If you'd prefer it to be done in a client/daemon sort of way, I'll look into writing one03:24
pittimjg59: hmm, I still believe in minimizing privileges, so if only tbp has the privilege rather than all programs, I'd favor that03:24
pittimjg59: in fact client/daemon seems to be the sanest solution03:24
pittimjg59: minimal daemon which runs as root and has a very tight interface03:24
mjg59It ought to just be a dbus setup03:25
ddaaApparently, the only thing it needs nvram for is setting the volume...03:25
pittimjg59: basically it just had to verify the input values and pass it to nvram03:25
mjg59ddaa: Oh, that's a point. Yeah, read access to nvram would be enough.03:25
ddaaI cannot see what else it needs it for.03:25
mjg59So, uh, why are we having this discussion again? :)03:25
pittimjg59: ? I thought it also wants to change the volume?03:25
pittimjg59: changing sounds like writing acces03:26
mjg59pitti: We can do without that functionality03:26
mjg59There's volume buttons on the machine03:26
pittimjg59: so we could leave /dev/nvram to root:group 0640?03:26
mjg59Yeah, that'd do 03:26
pittimjg59: and which group?03:27
ddaapitti: ?03:27
pittiddaa: audio?03:27
mjg59nvram makes sense03:27
ddaaThe whole. issue is that write access is neede.03:27
mjg59Since that's what it is03:27
mjg59ddaa: Write access is needed for a tiny amount of the functionality03:28
ddaamjg59: tiny critical amount of functionality.03:28
pittimjg59: then we must create yet another group03:28
mjg59ddaa: Sorry, which functionality?03:28
ddaasound volume control03:29
mjg59ddaa: It works fine without being able to write. 03:29
ddaawell, that's prolly another bug, but the mixer applet is ineffective.03:29
mjg59ddaa: That code is only used if you want it to jump a different number of steps03:29
mjg59If you leave it as default, it doesn't do anything to it03:29
pittimjg59: so the sound volume is _not_ set by writing into /dev/nvram?03:29
mjg59pitti: There are two mixers on Thinkpads03:30
mjg59pitti: There's the one on the sound hardware, and there's a separate hardware one03:30
ddaamjg59: ok, that's essentially a worthless feature.03:30
mjg59pitti: When you press the volume keys, it alters the hardware one, not the OSS/Alsa one03:30
mjg59pitti: The code is so that you can alter how much the volume buttons change the volume by. It's not a very useful feature.03:30
pittimjg59: I see. The older thinkpads (that I know) still had a physical slider... How nice... :-)03:30
pittimjg59: ah, I see. Sounds as if it can safely be dropped03:31
azeempitti: could you program that slider to behave as a cross-fader? :)03:31
pittimjg59: so #3292 is basically just about fixing the udev entry from root:nvram to root:root?03:31
pittimjg59: btw, since the group does not exist, which group does udev assign to it?03:32
pittiso this is only a cosmetic issue after all03:32
mjg59pitti: If you make the device 644, then the group doesn't matter03:33
ddaapitti: no, that's pbd bug03:33
pittimjg59: I have no problem with read access03:33
ddaastupid tlas03:33
pittimjg59: if it helps in any way, that is03:33
mjg59pitti: Only issue there is that on some machines the CMOS password will be readable and crackable03:33
pittimjg59: oh, right03:34
mjg59Which then puts you back where you started03:34
pittimjg59: so does read access provide any feature that we want to have?03:34
mjg59Without read access, tpb doesn't work03:35
pittimjg59: at all?03:35
mjg59When you press keys, the BIOS writes new values into nvram so that it can default to them on next boot03:35
pittimjg59: I thought it would need access just for this volume stepping?03:35
mjg59tpb watches the changes in these values03:35
mjg59It doesn't do anything otherwise03:36
pittihmm, tricky03:36
pittiso basically we just need to rewrite this tiny part? Reading out /dev/nvram as root and do all other stuff as user?03:36
mjg59So split it into a dbus daemon and client03:37
mjg59That way the client side can eventually be merged with clients for other hotkey devices03:37
pittiugh, isn't dbus a bit heavy for this?03:37
=== __randy__ [~randy@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittibut for my sake03:38
mjg59pitti: dbus is going to be running anyway03:38
pittimjg59: so, a nice TODO for mataro, I think03:38
mjg59Reinventing another message passing interface is just going to hurt03:38
pittimjg59: unless you want to do it earlier :-)03:38
pittimjg59: I'll sum that up in the bug report.03:39
pittimjg59: can I assign the bug to you then?03:42
mjg59pitti: Hrm. I'd prefer not to right at the moment03:43
ddaayay... just figured out how to rewrite the sender-address with postfix... will make pqm happy!03:52
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danielsok, guys, if you are planning on uploading something to the archive -- PLEASE ASK MYSELF AND FABBIONE FIRST04:05
daniels(by the way: amd64 builds just fine; i386 builds and works just fine; powerpc is still building because the G5 Xserve is apparently slow)04:11
Kamionwhy the archive lock?04:25
fabbionedunno.. ask daniels 04:26
fabbionefor me it's enough nobody uploads ubuntu-meta04:26
danielsKamion: put it this way -- uploading 0ubuntu2 in a couple of hours would really suck04:27
fabbioneon the otherside some Build-deps might need updates04:27
danielsKamion: we'd just like to be reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaally sure nothing breaks :)04:27
Kamiondaniels: mkay, well, do you mind me fixing this second round of wvstreams build failure?04:27
fabbioneKamion: we are only waiting for adare to finish04:28
fabbionequestion of few minutes04:28
fabbioneand then we upload04:28
danielsKamion: go nuts :)04:28
danielsKamion: (that's not going to impact on xorg ... but if someone went and changed a library we b-d on from under us, f.e.)04:29
Kamionelmo: oh, any chance of king's hoary chroot being fixed to have the en_GB locale installed to match its environment, so that build logs are a bit less insanely noisy?04:31
elmoKamion: can I just change's locale to be C?04:31
elmo(and if so, how)04:31
Kamionoh, uh, dunno04:31
Kamiondepends on the process that's chrooting into it I guess04:32
elmohmm, well I could purge locales in base - will that do the trick? :)04:32
elmohmm, someone did - maybe that's the problem04:32
fabbionemput ubuntu-meta_0.6* xorg-driver-synaptics_0.13.6* xorg_6.8.1* 04:33
fabbione52064874 bytes transferred                                     04:33
fabbioneTotal 11 files transferred04:33
fabbioneelmo: now it's up to you and your gf's04:33
elmoheh, lamont already tried to fix this, but typoed /etc/environmment (sic)04:34
elmoKamion: should be good now04:34
fabbioneubuntu-meta ACCEPTED04:35
fabbionexorg_6.8.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW04:36
fabbioneis NEW04:36
danielselmo: thanks04:36
fabbioneholy fucking shit04:37
fabbionexorg_6.8.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes ACCEPTED04:37
fabbioneUHA UHA UHA04:37
danielsWARTHOGS DANCE!04:37
=== pitti screams
=== fabbione vanishes from planet earth
pittiYou really unleashed the beast?04:37
danielspitti: yeah, dude04:37
pittifabbione, daniels: congrats!04:37
fabbionethanks pitti 04:38
Kamionelmo: he's not alone, that was typoed thus in base-config for ages too04:38
fabbionepitti: now it's all up to you to do scurity code review04:38
=== fabbione grins
pittifabbione: of the complete code? This will take me until tomorrow, then04:38
Kamionelmo: maybe he ran base-config new or something04:38
Kamionhooray, congratulations X team04:38
danielsKamion: thanks dude :)04:39
pittifabbione, daniels: BTW, will up upload this into experimental?04:39
danielsnot yet04:39
danielsstill needs updates for all the other debian architectures04:39
fabbionepitti: we also need to sync all debian changes and other stuff first04:50
fabbioneit's not really a simple step get it into debian04:50
pittifabbione: oh, don't hurry04:50
pittifabbione: you already did a Herkules job with xorg04:50
pittifabbione: I'm just curious :-)04:50
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fabbionepitti: it will still be me uploading to experimental04:51
fabbionebut i need to sync scripts and stuff04:51
pittifabbione: did Branden say anything about X.org BTW?04:51
fabbionenot at all04:52
fabbionehe prepared a SVN repo for me where to commit04:52
fabbioneand merge debian changes04:52
fabbionewe have 2 sand boxes at the moment04:52
fabbioneone for a monolithic drop04:52
fabbioneand one for a fakesplit04:52
fabbioneso what we will do is to import/merge the monolithic04:53
fabbioneand than keep splitting04:53
pittiah. AFAIK you already came quite far with the split, right?04:53
pittiit would be a pity to see this work being lost04:53
fabbioneno no04:53
fabbionethere is not too much code that is splitted04:53
fabbionemanly the autodetection stuff04:53
danielsyeah, but I need to do some upstream work on the modular tree before we can start migrating04:53
fabbionethat we might as well kill with X.org04:54
danielsand I want to start remembering what the outside world looks like first ;)04:54
fabbioneor rework to a minimal stage04:54
pittidaniels: btw, are you still in .dk?04:54
pittidaniels: Here in .de we had the first snow today. I bet this is something unusual for an .au citizen :-)04:54
Kamionelmo: will the build tree from wvstreams_3.75.0-1ubuntu4_20041109-1439-i386-failed still be around?04:55
pitticool is the right word04:55
danielsyeah, we only get snow up in the ski fields, way up in the mountains04:55
azeempitti: where in germany are you?04:55
danielsmelbourne winters are relatively time04:55
pittiazeem: Dresden, south-eastern border04:55
azeempeople from the Ruhrgebiet stared at me over irc when I said it snowed here04:55
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azeempitti: are you from Dresden, or do you just happen to live there?04:56
pittiazeem: I was born in Leipzig, but moved here in 1990.04:56
elmoKamion: yeah04:57
elmoKamion: want it ?04:57
danielselmo: thanks dude, much appreciated04:57
Kamionelmo: yes please04:57
elmoKamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/wvstreams-3.75.0.tar.gz04:59
elmodaniels: np04:59
Mitariohey guys05:01
pittisjoerd: Hi!05:01
=== Mitario is back
pittisjoerd: BTW, I fixed my archive mirror, http should work now05:01
Mitariorburton, here?05:01
sjoerdpitti: cool05:01
rburtonMitario: i am05:02
sjoerdpitti: any changes since 0.3 ?05:02
Mitariorburton, have you seen the http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PackageManagement page?05:02
pittisjoerd: no05:02
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rburtonoh no05:02
sjoerdpitti: k, i was just reading that so :)05:02
Mitariorburton, hmm, maybe you could add some summary about your pkg management app there? (just a suggestion)05:02
pittisjoerd: no, I recreated the archive with the '-l' switch to generate .listing files; that caused the 404 (or, rather, their lack)05:02
elmo   * Split the following libraries out from xlibs-static-dev/xlibs-static-pic05:05
elmo     into their own libfooX/libfooX-dbg/libfoo-dev packages:05:05
elmodaniels: why?05:05
danielselmo: some of them weren't meant to be static in the first place (it was just easier that way) e.g. libxfixes/libxdamage/libxcomposite, et al05:08
danielselmo: and some of it was to ease the transition to the modular tree, where everything is modular and built shared05:08
elmook, as long as they're going to be shared eventually, and/or separate source packages05:08
danielsthere was just no point having all that stuff static when its API hadn't actually changed in years05:08
danielselmo: um, they *are* shared now05:08
danielselmo: hence libfooX ;)05:09
danielselmo: and they will all eventually be separate source packages, yah05:09
elmooh, ok - that wasn't obvious (to me) from the changelog entry05:09
elmono need to apologise, my assumption05:09
danielsi blame fabio, he's sort of radiating itaglish at me ;)05:10
elmoanyway, it's building now - I had to force rman through to main first, thanks to Lamont's new enforcement of buildd component-segregation05:10
mdzis there no CC meeting today?05:11
danielsmdz: good morning.  do you moderate u-announce?05:11
danielselmo: cheers dude05:11
mdzdaniels: I think jdub does, but I can. why?05:11
danielsmdz: xorg announcement in the moderation queue05:12
mdzmako: community council meeting in #ubuntu-meeting05:14
tsengmmm, xorg05:16
=== Mitario waiting for it to arrive in the x86 repo :)
Kamionelmo: thanks, turns out current docbook-dsssl cleverly set %html-ext% back to ".htm"05:17
tsengi cant wait for dynamicclocks05:17
tsengsave a little power.05:18
danielstseng: give it a couple of hours05:18
tsengdaniels: cant wait i say!05:18
=== tseng goes back to work
thomwell, that was the least fun i've had in a long time05:21
danielsthom: whahappened?05:21
thomcarrying an alpha about a quarter k05:24
thomin heavy rain05:25
danielsgood god05:26
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mdzKeybuk: /join #ubuntu-meeting please, need tech board representation in the CC meeting05:28
mdzdaniels: does xorg need to go to -announce, rather than -users/-devel?05:30
fabbionemdz: yes05:31
fabbionewe need to reach as many people as possible05:31
danielsmdz: i would much much much rather it did05:31
fabbionespecially regarding the problem section and how to upgrade05:31
danielsmdz: especially bearing in mind that, after 'htf do I be root', it's the most frequently asked question, empirically05:31
mdz-announce targets many people who don't even use ubuntu yet05:34
mdzagreed on the basis of the fact that so many people seem to want it :-)05:34
mdz(even though they don't seem to know why)05:35
mdzjust approved it05:35
danielsthanks very much05:37
fabbionemdz: i fully agree that they don't know why :-)05:37
Mitarioto get that cool eye-candy ;)05:38
fabbionethat is unstable and slow?05:39
Mitariopeople don't seem to mind, as long as it looks good05:39
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sjoerdMitario: well, i don't like being thrown out of X when starting an aterm :)05:40
Mitariopeople who only want it to look good don't start aterms :p05:40
Mitarioaren't expected* ;)05:40
danielsan entertaining read: http://diswww.mit.edu/bloom-picayune/crypto/1423805:48
danielsFrom: "Yeomans, Andrew" <Andrew.Yeomans@DRKW.com>                                                                               05:53
danielsTo: Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@canonical.com>                                                                                   05:53
danielsSubject: Out of Office AutoReply: Announcing X.Org packages for Hoary                                                          05:53
danielsmdz: please nomail him on the lists05:53
=== carlos really hate when people activates the out of office service being subscribed to several mailing lists
lupus_is it possible to xorg yet?06:10
danielslupus_: not in the archive yet06:13
danielsamd64 is in the archive, but arch:i386 and arch:all packages are missing, so you can't do a full upgrade.  but i386 just recently finished successfully ...06:13
lupus_I'm readdy to test it :p;06:15
fabbionemissing powerpc06:15
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lupus_nvidia has upgraded there drivers btw06:19
lupus_they now should work with kernel 2.6.906:19
daniels(arch:i386 and arch:all debs are up)06:20
tsenggaimin is in also it looks like06:21
fabbionelupus_: there is an open bug already06:21
fabbioneit will be done sometime during next week06:21
lupus_whill it have the inotify patch then?06:22
lupus_so gamin and beagle can be tested 06:22
tsengthere is none in the kernel yet, no06:22
fabbionelupus_: i am talking about nvidia drivers06:22
tsengbeagle needs alot more than inotify.. not hoary material i think06:23
lupus_it will depend on if you guys include mono or not :)06:24
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danielsi386, amd64, powerpc, all debs in the archive06:38
danielshave at it, guys06:38
tsengapt is holding the server back, but i installed it anyway.. worksforme06:40
danielsyou need to dist-upgrade rather than upgrade06:40
tsengi did dist-upgrade06:41
Kamionelmo: what's needed to get the "Task: ubuntu-desktop" line off libfam0c102?06:41
Kamionelmo: I thought it would disappear automatically once all the dependencies on it went away06:41
tsengxbase-clients is waiting on libxkb06:41
tsengi dont see what was wrong with -server06:41
pittisjoerd: I just sent the plugdev mail to d-devel. Finally...06:42
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Mitariohmm, ok running xorg on x86 here :)06:42
elmoKamion: cron.sync, which is what runs germinate, only runs daily 06:42
elmoI'll force it through now06:43
Kamioncan I bribe you to run that manually? this should be the last piece for working CDs06:43
Kamionaha, thanks06:43
danielsmdz: thinko in the announce, the recipe for enabling Composite is one letter off.  worth sending a follow-up, or nay?06:45
sjoerdpitti: woohoo06:45
elmodaniels/fabbione: do any of the NEW packages in xorg need to stay in main?06:45
pittisjoerd: it got a bit lengthy, but I wanted to explain it properly06:45
mdzdaniels: to -users or -devel if you think it's appropriate, not to -announce06:46
mdz-announce needs to stay as low-noise as possible06:46
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mdznext time around, maybe include a URL to a wiki page, rather than inlining instructions06:46
danielsmdz: yesh, sure06:46
danielselmo: hm?06:46
danielsmdz: ok, sorry06:46
elmodaniels: my archive vs. seed sync script wants to demote most/all of them to universe06:47
mdzelmo: how many?  can you paste a list?06:48
danielselmo: bah, cracktastic.  demote libFS to universe but the rest should stay in main pls.06:48
danielselmo: (recompiles will pick up dependencies on all of them except libfs6, really; libxau6 is depended on by some package called libx11-6 and xserver-xorg, f.e.)06:48
danielselmo: actually, just wait06:48
danielselmo: apparently libfs is used by other stuff06:49
fabbioneelmo: please keep all in main06:49
elmolibdmx1-dbg, libfs-dev, libfs6-dbg, libxau-dev, libxau6-dbg, libxaw8-dbg, libxaw8-dev, libxcomposite-dev, libxcomposite1, libxcomposite1-dbg, libxdamage-dev, libxdamage1, libxdamage1-dbg, libxdmcp-dev, libxdmcp6-dbg, libxevie-dev, libxevie1, libxevie1-dbg, libxfixes-dev, libxfixes3, libxfixes3-dbg, libxinerama-dev, libxinerama1-dbg, libxkbfile-dev, libxkbfile1-dbg, libxkbui-dev, libxkbui1-dbg, libxres-dev, libxres1, libxres1-dbg, libxss-dev, libxss1-dbg06:49
elmo, libxvmc-dev, libxvmc1, libxvmc1-dbg, libxxf86dga-dev, libxxf86dga1-dbg, libxxf86misc-dev, libxxf86misc1-dbg, libxxf86rush-dev, libxxf86rush1, libxxf86rush1-dbg, libxxf86vm-dev, libxxf86vm1-dbg, xdmx, xfree86-common, xserver-xfree86, xserver-xorg-dbg 06:49
danielselmo: but since they were static, this sort of crap won't start showing up until we see things start recompiling against the dynamic versions06:49
elmomdz: ^--06:49
fabbionewe will dig into what is really needed tomorrow06:49
danielsmdz: (there are some new libraries but almost all of them were originally static-only, and now have dynamic libraries also -- 1989 was summoning xlibs-static-dev)06:49
mdzthe -dev and -dbg stuff should get added to the supoprted seed06:51
sjoerdpitti: guess that explains it nicely, let the flames begin :)06:53
=== pitti already fears the usual Debian flamefest
pittisjoerd: I hope that Marco d'Itri supports it; we need udev support to do it properly06:53
sjoerdpitti: is it a big problem tha he doesn't ?06:54
sjoerdpitti: the only difference is that programs running in the plugdev group can't access drives directly right ?06:54
pittisjoerd: well, not quite06:56
pittisjoerd: hal would not be able to detect anything on the drives, too06:56
pittisjoerd: I think it is required for media checking06:56
pittisjoerd: e. g. for card readers06:56
sjoerdoh, right06:56
sjoerdstill not sure about giving normal users direct access too, but let's see what others think06:57
sjoerdhal could use a major overhaul anyway, splitting the parts that touch the disk out would be nice for one thing06:58
seb128thom: are you working on the oo.o 1.1.3 merge ?06:58
elmomdz: qt b-d's firebird - bug?06:58
elmo(err, over-abbreviated that.. as in, should I file one...)06:59
mdzelmo: ugh, yes06:59
sjoerdpitti: btw the pmount code looks nice, i can only nitpick :)07:00
pittisjoerd: nitpicking appreciated :-)07:00
sjoerdpitti: in a few days, when i'm finished reading it :)07:01
pittisjoerd: I'm looking forward to any improvements :-)07:02
pittisjoerd: I tried my best to write safe and robust code; it got a bit lengthy, but that's the price if you want to program safely in insane^WC07:02
thomseb128: i'm on holiday dude, i might look if i have time tomorrow07:02
danielsthom: ps: firefox 1.0 is out!!07:03
thomdaniels: ... thanks07:03
thomwhen Mithrandir uploads libc6 i'll do an upload07:04
seb128thom: oh, don't worry. I just have a bug about the gnomevfs support which is fixed in 1.1.3, and I was wondering if you are the right guy to reassign i07:04
sjoerdpitti: oh, if you could try not to mix up spaces and tabs, then it would be nice for me to read.. but you may just as well ignore this comment :)07:04
danielsthom: no worries07:04
danielsthom: oh wow, nice work07:04
danielsthom: I was just aimlessly trolling as a form of gloating over xorg ;)07:04
thomseb128: yeah, i habve the merge bug, so you might as well :-)07:04
thomseb128: actually, since xorg is dne, assign it to daniel :P07:04
seb128thom: I'm not asking for any work during your holidays :)07:04
pittisjoerd: hmm, actually I really like tabs, but I can change vim to use spaces instead07:05
lupus_now xorg is there shouldn't metacity be recompiled?07:05
danielsthom: oi! watch yerself07:05
sjoerdpitti: try to set your tabstop to 2 or 4 and you'll see what i mean :)07:05
pittisjoerd: well, a tab is 8 spaces, and has ever been...07:06
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sjoerdpitti: that's a valid opinion, but there are others 07:09
lupus_daniels, will the xorg uses the old keyboard driver?07:09
pittisjoerd: what's the quickest way to convert tabs to spaces?07:09
lupus_xorg.conf that is07:09
sjoerdpitti: sed ?07:10
pittisjoerd: I'd use a for loop with sed -i s/\t/        / or so07:10
pittisjoerd: I did that07:11
pittisjoerd: wow, the diff looks funny07:11
lupus_daniels, can't you replace  Driver          "keyboard" to Driver "kbd"07:11
pittisjoerd: IIRC vim has something that emulates tab, but does not use them. softtabstop?07:11
sjoerdi guess07:11
lupus_on upgrade07:12
sjoerdpitti: i use set sta                 " <tab> in indent inserts sw spaces!!07:12
sjoerdok that was a fscked paste07:12
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pittisjoerd: do you also have a correct one?07:13
pittiHi lulu07:13
danielsKeybuk: heh, picking on thom -- you're a bastard :)07:14
sjoerdpitti: use -> set sta07:14
danielslupus_: i don't think it will be a problem but if it is, we can replace it07:14
lupus_Keyboard is the old driver07:14
danielsyeah, but iirc there hasn't been any functionality change07:15
lupus_obsolete :)07:15
danielshas there?07:15
danielsobsolete != not working :P07:15
pittisjoerd: committed and pushed to the mirror. Can you please verify that the mirror works? And that it looks okay now?07:15
lupus_but if you get bugreports :)07:16
sjoerdpitti: seems to work fine07:16
danielslupus_: yeah, we'll do a migration if strictly necessary; we already migrate xfree86 xkb -> xorg, etc07:17
Keybukdaniels: *giggle*07:17
sjoerdpitti: you're too good :) (and i want nitpick that it doesn't fit in 80 chars ;)07:18
pittisjoerd: well, there are lines that don't fit07:18
pittisjoerd: I don't like to break strings07:18
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vuntzjdub: ping ?07:25
pittisjoerd: hmm, smarttab does not quite do the right thing. I think, it's rather expandtab07:25
sjoerdpitti: oh hmm07:26
sjoerdpitti: judging from the comments in my config file it's probably a combination07:26
sjoerdet is when your doing it manually, sta is when vim indents for you07:27
pittisjoerd: I now use shiftwidth=4, softtabstop=4, expandtab07:27
pittisjoerd: hmm, why do people insist to redefine the tab width? Tab is unusable if that is done07:28
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sjoerdpitti: i do it because i dont like 8 space indents07:30
pittisjoerd: me neither07:30
pittisjoerd: but this does not have much to do with each other07:31
lupus_is the xcomp* package already available?07:32
danielswon't be until later tonight07:34
danielsbecause i'm leaving right now for a couple of hours, been at the computer for pretty much 13h straight07:34
m_tthewdaniels: thanks for the work, my upgrade went smoothly.07:35
lupus_k daniels :)07:35
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Keybukhow curious07:37
Keybukwe managed to base our ghfaxviewer package on a version not on snapshot.dn07:37
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lupus_there is a problem with gaim when you get an email07:39
lupus_and click ok07:39
lupus_gedit is openend07:39
lupus_instead of a browser07:39
lupus_it does not know that .html should be openend with firefox07:40
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Keybukseb128_: heh, uh ... yeah07:41
Keybukit's probably better it you resolve those kinds of bugs the other way :p07:41
Keybuk(ie. mark the old one a duplicate of the new)07:41
Keybukotherwise you'll just get another bug filed when Debian upload a new version07:41
seb128_hey Keybuk 07:42
seb128_why ?07:42
seb128_oh ok07:42
Keybukmerge-o-matic uses the alias of the bug to avoid repeat filings07:42
Keybukonly the new bugs have those07:43
Keybuk(you could also just set the alias of the old bug to merge-gdm :p)07:43
=== thom slaps keybuk
thomi was reading the titles of my emails going "what the fuck is that crackwhore on about, acpi-support isn't *in* debian"07:44
seb128_Keybuk: ok, thanks for the explanation :)07:44
Keybukthom: heh, I needed to test it did a real-component/UNKNOWN flip ok07:45
seb128_Keybuk: apparently it gets the alias from the dup07:45
seb128_oups, nevermind07:46
seb128_I was mis-interpreting the "Bug 3444 has already taken the alias merge-gdm. Please choose another one."07:47
Keybukah, d'oh07:47
mdzKeybuk: so currently-open merge-o-matic bugs are real and valid and should be paid attention to?07:47
Keybukmdz: yes.07:47
seb128_Keybuk: not sure about this message ... 2 bugs can't have the same alias ?07:48
Keybukapparently not, hmm07:48
elmodoes 'Save as' work for anyone in firefox?07:48
Keybukmdz: any that get opened or commented on now are real bugs07:49
elmoI'm getting "The link could not be saved.  The web page might have been removed or had it's name changed" or something07:49
thomelmo: works for me07:50
mdzKeybuk: so there are non-real ones which are already open?07:50
Keybukmdz: no, there were just one or two non-real ones which I closed as NOTABUG07:51
Keybukso any opened now, being opened now, or being commented on now are real07:51
thomjdub: new firefox industrial theme fixes the whack search box07:54
Keybuk>>> print bz.bug_id_from_alias("Ubuntu", "test-scott")07:55
Keybuk>>> print bz.bug_id_from_alias("Ubuntu", "test-scott", all=True)07:55
Keybuk>>> bz.clear_alias(3412)07:55
Keybukright ... fixed that potential bug :p07:55
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Keybukif anyone has queries on the bugs, just comment on them, the reporter is set to me so I can look what it's done08:00
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fabbionelamont_r: ping08:46
Kamionxlibs-dev is currently installable, isn't it?08:46
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KamionI'm hoping that the britney output is just temporary08:47
fabbionelamont_r: what is keeping xorg 1ubuntu1 from being built?08:47
=== lamont_r decides taht that he'll upgrade to hoary when he gets home, rather than risking the laptop while out of town.
lamont_rfabbione: checking08:47
fabbioneKamion: yes, daniels already uploaded a fixed version08:47
fabbionebut it's not built yet08:47
lamont_rfabbione: package name is xorg?08:47
fabbioneand that's scary08:47
fabbionei am afraid of circular build-deps08:48
fabbionelamont_r: if that is the problem we might have to build 1ubuntu1 manually on a chroot that has not been upgraded08:49
elmoeh, xorg built for at least i386 and amd6408:49
Kamionfabbione: ah, ok08:49
lamont_rfabbione: give it a break..08:49
elmoI just haven't been forcing it through as fast08:49
lamont_rwas signed about 15 minutes ago08:50
fabbioneuh ok08:50
fabbionesorry.. the buildd pages weren't updated08:50
=== fabbione needs a break
fabbionesorry guys08:50
lamont_rfabbione: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/...08:50
fabbionemy really really bad08:50
fabbionei was looking in the old dir :(08:50
fabbioneelmo, lamont_r: sorry08:51
lamont_rfabbione: and http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary.all.i38608:51
fabbioneKamion: everything should be alright as soon as powerpc finishes to build08:51
elmofabbione: it's cool dude, chill out :)08:51
Kamionok, I'll roll a CD then if stuff is installable08:51
fabbioneKamion: only on i386 and amd6408:51
fabbioneppc needs 1ubuntu1 08:52
fabbioneok i am off to relax08:52
fabbionethanks guys :-)08:52
mdzfabbione: thanks and enjoy :-)08:54
mdzfabbione: the sharks are feeding08:54
mdzsoon there will be the sound of thousands of people simultaneously saying "oh" and realizing that they can't tell the difference from outside08:55
lamont_revo and gpg are happily together, yes?08:56
thommdz: heh, yep08:58
mdzthom: just wait until the requests for firefox 1.0 start rolling in08:59
mdzif they haven't aready; I'm not yet at the bottom of my ubuntu-bugs mailbox08:59
fabbionemdz: eheheh08:59
thomthere's a thread on -users already09:00
fabbionei am just a bit overexcited to see 5 weeks of very hard work out09:00
thomi've not seen a bug report yet09:00
fabbioneneither did I 09:00
fabbionebut it's too early09:00
thomfabbione: i mean requesting firefox 1.009:01
fabbionethey bitched today on irc :-)09:01
fabbioneabout firefox09:01
Mitariohmm, what is the policy to upload something to dist-security?09:12
Mitariowarty-security or hoary-security thatis09:12
=== cenerentola [~cenerento@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzMitario: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SecurityUpdateProcedures/view?searchterm=security09:19
Mitariook ty09:23
Mitariodamn, my procedure won't work then :)09:23
Mitariois there a possible way to fetch the 'current stable' of ubuntu somewhere? (release name)09:24
Mitarioso the current upstream stable, not the version a user has installed locally09:24
mjg59daniels: Any idea where int10 e6 comes from?09:24
mdzMitario: not sure what you mean09:26
cenerentolaciao a tutti09:27
Mitariomdz, well, in the upgrade apps i'm writing with michael, it would be a really cool feature if the app could automatically detect if there is a distribution upgrade available (for example if hoary is released as the new stable), the upgrade app can then show a dialog like 'Would you like me to modify your software sources and upgrade to Hoary?)09:27
cenerentolais jdub with us at the moment?09:27
mdzMitario: ok, I see09:28
mdzMitario: seems like we require a meta-meta-index :-)09:28
Mitarioso I first tought just update the upgrade-app package with a metafile which says hoary is the new upstream dist, but because of the security upload policy that won't be possible09:28
Mitariocause the update of the metafile is not really a security 'bug'09:28
cenerentolamitario: id like to ask you a question... is warty freezed?09:29
Mitariocenerentola, yes it is :) afaik09:29
Mitariomdz, or we could have some internet location with a metafile which lists the current distribution where I could have a peek with the app internals :)09:30
cenerentolais it bullet proof... or you have just forgot that it exists09:30
Mitarioi'm pretty sure warty is in freeze :) cause it has been released09:30
cenerentolaMitario: why dont you modify apt09:31
=== Keybuk [~scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
cenerentolaso noone is working on its security issues?09:31
cenerentolamitario: i think it will be easier to let apt [a pluggable script]  to do the job or not?09:32
Mitariooh, wait, i see what you're talking about now09:32
Mitarioyes, the upgrade apps work together with apt09:33
cenerentolai know that09:33
cenerentolawell i really seem stupid sometimes.. but im not..09:33
Mitariowell, elaborate your ideas please :)09:33
Kamioncenerentola: frozen except for security09:33
cenerentolakamion: thx...09:33
Kamioncenerentola: obviously we couldn't release a distribution and then ignore its security issues09:34
cenerentolacause i was thinking of unistalling ubuntu...09:34
cenerentolakamion: debian-way... i love it09:34
cenerentolamitario: i havent ever seen apt-code..09:35
cenerentolabut i think that a scripting language will do it nicely... since my idea its not definitive...09:35
cenerentolamy desk-mate at the uni is mad for plug-ins...09:36
cenerentolaso why dont extend apt... apt-get with a metafile checker...09:36
cenerentolaarghhh... found it...09:37
cenerentolawhy not glueing [is it right?]  apt-get with mmm ive used a program that check the best apt sources09:37
cenerentolai cant remember its name, but we.. you could merge that code, its already done09:38
mdzcenerentola: warty is not only frozen, it's _released_09:38
mdzMitario: there already is a metafile for each release, the Release file09:39
=== Kamion looks at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/hoary_probs.html with some puzzlement
mdzMitario: but in order to see whether there was a newer release, you'd need a higher-level index (hence meta-meta)09:39
Mitariomdz, yes indeed09:39
mdzcenerentola: what are you talking about, regarding security issues?09:40
cenerentolano... newer releases..09:40
cenerentolano.. you could simply add and change a variable... like svn09:40
cenerentolaand that program, whose name i forgot, did the job...09:41
mdzyou keep saying 'no' in response to questions which do not have boolean answers09:41
mdzKamion: which bit?09:41
cenerentolai mean... other than checking the metafiles, also changing the sources.list09:41
cenerentolamdz: are you talking with me?09:42
mdzapparently not :-)09:42
cenerentolawhere are you from?09:42
mdz<mdz> cenerentola: what are you talking about, regarding security issues?09:43
cenerentola... mmm sorry i misunderstood...09:43
Kamionmdz: everything from ubuntu-desktop down really09:43
cenerentolamdz: nothing in particular... i was just wondering if warty had been forgotten09:43
mdzcenerentola: why would you think that?09:44
Kamioncenerentola: please do us the favour of not assuming that we're criminally negligent :-)09:44
cenerentola<Mitario> mdz, well, in the upgrade apps i'm writing with michael, it would be a really cool feature if the app could automatically detect if there is a distribution upgrade available (for example if hoary is released as the new stable), the upgrade app can then show a dialog like 'Would you like me to modify your software sources and upgrade to Hoary?)09:44
cenerentolakamion: never say no...09:44
mdzcenerentola: so because Mitario is writing an application to assist with upgrades, you infer that warty is neglected?09:44
cenerentolamdz: sorry i was joking...09:45
cenerentolamdz: well im used to the debian-way where you have 3 kind of package..09:46
mdzKamion: puzzling09:46
cenerentolamitario was talking about 2 kind...09:46
mdzKamion: does that still happen if you run it on the current archive?09:46
cenerentolamitario: what about the apt thing... is it crap?09:46
Mitarioapt rocks09:46
Kamionmdz: can't say easily09:46
cenerentolamitario: no what a said, is it crap?09:47
Mitarioumm, not it isn't09:47
Kamionmdz: that's fairly current data though09:47
cenerentolamdz: btw, will you host me in your bathroom in mataro? bcause lulu wont...09:47
mdzKamion: it seems very confused09:47
mdzKamion: evolution doesn't even build evolution1.5 anymore09:47
mdzcenerentola: I can't fault her for that09:48
Kamionmdz: but it's still in the archive09:49
cenerentolawell can i open this discussion... i think its unfair... mark can afford the presence of the ubuntu's community represantives[1 person per nation] 09:49
Kamionmdz: in general the assumption that britney is wrong can be eliminated by Occam's Razor :-)09:50
mdzKamion: is that normal?09:50
mdzfor a binary to remain in the Packages file after its source disappears from Sources?09:50
cenerentola... because id love to come.. but my family cant afford it09:51
Kamionmdz: they're only removed semi-automatically09:51
Kamionmdz: i.e. elmo runs rene every so often and does roughly what it tells him to do09:51
Kamionat least that's how it works for Debian09:52
=== lamont_r lunches
cenerentolaso whos gonna host me?09:56
danielsmjg59: e6? no, sorry09:57
mdzcenerentola: an email will go out soon regarding conference sponsorship, you can watch for it for more information09:58
cenerentolaim the italian community administrator.. you should consider me as your friend09:58
danielscenerentola: dude, chill09:59
mjg59daniels: Looking more closely - the routine is called xf86ExtendedInitInt10_E6 but actually calles IntE610:00
mjg59Which seems to somehow result in a load of other interrupts being called10:00
danielsmjg59: i profess ignorance by choice10:01
danielsmjg59: vbe isn't really my forte; all I know is DDC and a little too much about EDID, sorry10:01
mjg59I'd rather switch this code to be using vm86 for simplicity of testing, but it's not keen on that10:02
danielsamd64 has no vm86, though10:03
danielsxfree86/xorg uses x86emu for hysterical raisins, but supporting amd64 appears to be a neat side effect ;)10:04
mjg59daniels: Yeah, I was going to worry about that later :)10:04
Mitarioyeah, daniels your work rocks! xcompmgr is damn slow, but it rocks and is really good looking :p10:06
Mitariodaniels, thank you and your mate for all the hard work you have done :)10:06
danielsheh, thanks :) i'm sure fabbione will appreciate the compliment also10:07
Mitariofabbione, many thanks!10:08
Mitariofabbione, same I said to daniel :)10:08
cenerentolagood job...10:10
cenerentolagreat job10:10
Kamionfabbione,daniels: can one of you update the hoary seeds for xorg, please?10:11
danielsKamion: on the wiki, or in a package somewhere?10:11
Kamionxfree86-driver-synaptics is still mentioned in desktop and xserver-xfree86-dbg is in supported10:11
Kamionin tla10:11
cenerentolais it safe to upgrade ?10:11
danielsKamion: which archive do I need to pull?10:12
Kamiontla register-archive sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com10:12
Kamiontla get ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--010:12
danielss/tla/baz/ ;)10:12
Kamionor that :)10:12
danielsKamion: do I need to list stuff that should be there implicitly?10:12
danielse.g. xbase-clients now deps libxkbfile1/libxkbui1, do I need to add both of those, or does that just happen automagically?10:13
Kamionoh no, germinate takes care of dependencies10:13
danielsah, phat10:13
Kamionall you should need to do is s/xfree86/xorg/g10:13
mdzKamion: can you update SeedManagement with those instructions?10:13
Kamionmdz: sure10:14
mjg59Ah, I see how this works now10:14
danielsKamion: i suppose I should update supported seed with all the new xorg packages?10:16
mdzmjg59: that kind of talk makes me worry10:16
Kamiondaniels: what sort of thing?10:16
mdzKamion: -dev, -dbg10:16
Kamioncheck with mdz, I guess10:16
Kamionah, that sounds ok10:16
mdz-dev and -dbg for anything which is already supported is OK10:16
mdzand in fact would be nice to automate someday10:17
danielsa lot of stuff in xlibs-static-dev is now built shared also; as well as that, there's new fixes/damage/composite libs, plus xevie (useful with composite) and dmx (distributed multihead x -- VERY VERY cool)10:17
Mitariogoing to bed10:18
Mitarionn all10:18
Kamionmdz: done10:19
mdzKamion: seedmanagement? thanks10:19
mdzfor a moment I wondered if you suddenly got the urge to hack on germinate :-)10:19
Kamionnot today :-)10:19
KamionI should get round to setting up that thing to mail seed changes to hoary-changes10:20
cenerentolamdz: we were talking about packages, so if i want to install xorg or new packages, should i change the repository in sources.list to hoary's?10:23
danielsKamion: seeds--hoary--0--patch-7 committed, please let me know if I've tanked anything10:26
elmo   o grepmap10:28
elmo   o update-manager10:28
elmo   o upgrade-notifier10:28
Kamiondaniels: looks ok to me10:28
elmocan the appopriate person add them too , pls?10:28
elmomdz: btw, I assume you still hate wwwconfig-common?10:29
mdzelmo: if thom and fabbione hate it, I hate it too10:30
Kamiondaniels: seems ok10:31
elmoWFM, new bug on backuppc coming up10:31
mdzelmo: grepmap should get some wider testing before being added to base10:31
mdzI think likewise for update-manager and upgrade-notifier wrt desktop10:31
mdzI suppose we can add them all to supported for now10:31
Kamiondaniels: I turned off signature verification on the update cron job, though, 'cos I realised I probably didn't have your key in my keyring there10:32
KamionI guess I'll get bitchmail about that10:32
danielsKamion: 9f9f324a, from subkeys.pgp.net10:32
Kamiondaniels: oh yeah, I know how to get it, point is the cron job doesn't10:32
elmomdz: that'd be nice - with the new buildd facisim, it's more important I fix seed syncage quickly and having less false positives would help10:34
elmomdz: oh, and while you're there, you could drop 2.4 support :)10:34
mdzKamion: I can't update from the seeds archive anymore?10:34
mdz  ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com10:34
=== mdz pummels tla
mdzelmo: I have changes in my working directory, once someone tells me how to beat tla into submission i can do that too10:35
danielsmdz: echo gpg --clearsign > ~/.arch-params/\=signing/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com10:36
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Kamionmdz: it's always been a signed archive10:37
lupus_what was wrong with xorg that there are new packages :)10:38
danielslupus_: minor upgrade errors that we haven't caught in our testing10:38
Kamionelmo: buildd fascism?10:38
elmoKamion: component segregation - main can now only be built with packages from main etc.10:38
=== Kamion is still totally confused by britney's output, and goes to try to reproduce it
mdzKeybuk: do you have your tla-to-human phrasebook handy?}10:39
mdzarch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))10:39
mdzthat's like "permission denied" or something, right?10:39
Keybukyup, pretty much10:39
Keybukit also could mean you need to do "tla update"10:39
Kamiondrwxrwsr-x    3 daniels  warthogs     4096 Nov  9 21:25 ++revision-lock-held--patch-7--matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--1a5de7a0671f310:40
=== daniels scratches his head.
danielsdpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for /usr/X11R6/lib/libXfixes.so.3 (libXfixes.so.3)10:40
danielsdpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared library libXfixes (soname 3, path /usr/X11R6/lib/libXfixes.so.3, dependency field Depends)10:40
Kamiontla lock-revision -b?10:40
Keybukah, tla lock-rvision -b10:40
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxfixes3.shlibs 10:40
danielslibXfixes 3 libxfixes310:40
mdzKeybuk: ah, so it's "you tried to commit, but I blew up and didn't let you, and left a lock behind"?10:40
Keybukpretty much, yeah10:40
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukit likes doing that10:40
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mdzwhat's the arg to lock-revision that I need?10:41
danielsKeybuk: ideas on the shlibs bong?10:41
mdzKeybuk: usage: tla lock-revision [options]  revision10:41
Keybukmdz: tla lock-revision -v $(tla tree-version)10:41
mdzlock-revision: invalid revision name (ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0)10:42
elmodamn, tla's so intuitive10:42
Keybukuh, stick a --patch-7 on that :p10:42
danielsand you want -b, not -v10:42
mdztried that10:42
mdzlock-revision: revision not locked -- ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-710:42
mdzis that tla-speak for "I did what you told me"?10:42
Keybukthen do "-u"10:42
Keybukrather than "-b"10:43
=== mdz bangs his head on the desk
Kamionwe love tla really10:43
mdzlock-revision: error unlocking revision ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-7 -- lock not held10:43
Keybuktry it without either :p10:43
elmothe TLA  game - keep banging your head until tla doesn't hurt10:43
danielsmdz: so what happens now if you try to commit?10:43
Kamionfailing that, go into the archive and nuke the lock ...10:43
mdzarch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))10:43
mdzKamion: help? :-)10:44
Keybukmkdir -p patch--7/++revision-lock/+contents10:44
mdzKeybuk: you must be shitting me10:44
Keybukrm -rf ++revision-lock-held*10:44
Kamionmdz: try now10:44
Keybukmdz: I often get an image of 'tla' as a kind of Nelson figure10:44
Keybukgoing "ha-hah" at you when you try and do something sensible10:44
danielsKeybuk: so, er, dpkg and shlibs10:45
mdzwhat's the difference between ~/.arch-params/signing and .../=signing?10:45
danielsKeybuk: *harass* *harass*10:45
danielsmdz: whatever tla said is right, and whatever I said is wrong10:45
danielsmdz: that aside, not much10:45
Keybukmdz: =signing works, signing doesn't10:46
Keybuk"signing" clearly isn't a tla config file, you can type it without performing finger-yoga10:46
=== mdz cleans up the lock AGAIN
KamionI have ~/.arch-params/signing/10:46
Kamionand it works10:47
KeybukKamion is right10:47
Keybukit's =ids and =locations, but "signing"10:47
mdzok, I'm still broken10:47
mdzarch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))10:47
mdz    tree: /home/mdz/data/src/canonical/seeds/hoary10:47
mdz    revision: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-810:47
danielsKeybuk: yay! i was right10:47
mdzand no locks in sight10:47
danielsmdz: so when you do tla lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8, it claims it isn't locked?10:47
Keybukmdz:  do you have permission to write to the lock?10:47
mdzdaniels: you win the tla russian roulette prize10:47
danielsmdz: if I die, #ubuntu will be bitching about xcompmgr packages forever ;)10:48
Kamionpatch-7/++revision-lock/+contents is missing10:48
mdzdrwxrwsr-x   10 cjwatson warthogs     4096 Nov  9 21:46 /home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--hoary/seeds--hoary--010:48
mdzmdz@chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--hoary/seeds--hoary--0 $ groups10:48
mdzwarthogs cdimage security_team porting_team10:48
Keybukit's not locked10:48
=== Kamion mkdirs it
danielsmdz: try committing now10:48
KeybukKamion: beat you!10:48
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% baz lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-810:48
danielslock-revision: unkown lock state for ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-810:48
daniels   (lock was in transition -- consider retrying)10:48
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% baz lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-810:48
danielslock-revision: revision not locked -- ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-810:48
mdzis this bug in bugzilla already?10:49
mdzor do I get the pleasure?10:49
Keybukmdz: rant away10:49
danielsmdz: 'ui is utter crap'?10:49
mdzleaving the lock behind10:49
danielsKeybuk: speaking of bugs ... dpkg-shlibdeps!10:49
mdzI still can't commit10:50
=== daniels smiles sweetly at Keybuk.
Keybukdaniels: I'm dealing with X.org xkb bugs right now10:50
danielsKeybuk: swap you?10:50
danielsmdz: this is when you scream for jblack/lifeless10:50
mdzsame error10:50
Kamionlet me try a test commit here10:50
mdzlifeless is asleep, trying jblack10:51
Kamionwell, I *had* the same error, but the mkdir -p fixed it and my commit went through10:52
Kamionmdz: can you try your commit normally, no extra funny stuff?10:52
danielsshit, getting kicked out of here in 15min10:52
mdzok, I'm updating and retrying10:52
mdzseems to be working10:52
mdzyep, done10:52
KamionI shouldn't've bothered making this a signed archive10:53
mdzfiling bug10:53
Kamionwell, britney on little with a recently-synced archive agrees10:54
Kamionnow to persuade it to tell me why10:54
elmoKamion: about what?10:55
Kamionthat gnome-<lots-of-stuff> is uninstallable10:55
carlosmdz: did you saw the discussion at debian-desktop about usplash?, should any ubuntu developer participate in the thread?10:55
mdzelmo: so grepmap, upgrade-notifier and update-manager are now seeded10:55
mdzcarlos: I don't think I'm on that list10:56
Kamiondaniels: libxft1/libxft1-dbg are still built from Source: xfree8610:56
Kamiondaniels: are they going to disappear?10:56
elmomdz: cheers10:56
carlosmdz: they are talking about a splash solution for Debian10:56
Kamiondaniels: and if so, what'll you do with xlibs-dbg?10:56
carlosand I'm sure they will be happy to participate on usplash development10:56
danielsKamion: yes, and violently so10:56
danielsKamion: er, whaddya mean about xlibs-dbg?10:57
Kamionstill depends on libxft1-dbg10:57
danielsoh, right, ISWYM10:57
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion and support on #ubuntu | Hoary is here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-October/000005.html | Want to help? see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals
danielsthis is the sound of me updating xlibs-dbg's dependencies on hoary10:57
mdzelmo: 2.4 removed now also10:57
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danielsand with that, I'm getting kicked out of the net cafe.  night all, see you in the morning.11:02
elmoheh, #28049111:02
elmonight daniels11:02
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mdzKamion: how often is your public checkout of the seeds updated?11:14
mdzKamion: I'd like to update ubuntu-meta11:14
mdzKamion: debootstrap needs updating as well; do you have a semi-automatic widget for that?11:15
amunice idea, i should try os.chroot()11:15
Keybukdaniels: have it ticking nicely now \o/ ... upgrade threw away my changes to xkb because it turned the file into a symlink11:15
elmo   o mozilla-firefox-gnome-support11:18
elmo   o xdmx11:18
elmowhat about those two ?11:18
Kamionmdz: you shouldn't get more than 17 minutes lag11:18
Kamionmdz: yeah, I have a magic debootstrap updater11:19
mdzelmo: mozilla-firefox-gnome-support sounds like something we want in desktop, assuming it works11:20
mdzelmo: NFC what xdmx is11:20
elmoDescription: Distributed Multi-head X server11:22
elmo Xdmx is a proxy X server that uses one or more other X servers as its display11:22
elmo devices.  It provides multi-head X functionality for displays that might be11:22
Kamionodd; britney apparently throws out capplets very early, judging from the diagnostics I can get; it doesn't even seem to bother looking at its dependencies11:22
elmoKamion: it'll be libxklavier?11:22
elmoThe following packages have unmet dependencies:11:22
elmo  capplets: Depends: libxklavier8 but it is not installable11:22
elmowhich got rene-removed recently 'cos it's NBS (supsed by libxklavier9)11:23
Kamionhow come it installs fine on my box?11:23
Kamionoh, blah, right, I haven't removed obsolete packages11:23
elmokamion: doesn't in a clean chroot for me? 11:23
elmomdz: it's one of the new xorg things </redundant>11:24
Kamionthink seb128'll mind if I just rebuild capplets?11:25
Kamionmdz: what base changes should I expect in debootstrap?11:25
mdzKamion: -modutils11:25
mdzsame as the ubuntu-meta I just uploaded11:25
Kamionelmo: thanks for that, I could have spent hours poking at britney :)11:26
elmoKamion: doubt [he'll mind]  and np :)11:27
elmomdz: how come ubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on ubuntu-base ?11:27
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mdzelmo: intuitively it doesn't seem like it should11:28
KeybukI suspect we should let users chose to just break one of the meta-packages, not both11:29
Kamionmdz: ironically I have to wait for ubuntu-meta, because ubuntu-base is seeded and used to depend on modutils11:30
mdzKamion: heh11:30
mdz-rw-rw----  1 mdz mdz 248 2004-11-09 22:20 /tmp/ubuntu-meta_0.7_source.upload11:30
mdzKamion: should be there fairly soon11:30
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Kamionok, control-center uploaded11:35
Kamionthom: mozilla-firefox 1.0 is apparently going into Debian tonight-ish11:36
jdub09:17 < thaytan> daniels: nice clean upgrade :)11:36
jdub09:23 < thaytan> no xcompmgr tho11:36
jdub^ heh11:36
cenerentolahi see you11:36
cenerentolagood night11:36
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m_tthewfabbione: I caught daniels already, but missed you. awesome job with x.org, my upgrade went off without a hitch. very impressive.11:44
mdzthom: do you know anything about the gnome-support stuff?  something we want?11:45
lupus_daniels, are you daniel stone?11:45
mdzlupus_: he is, but he isn't here11:45
mdzmvo|hockey: are you back?11:49
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