[12:24] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[01:12] <Kamion> mdz: briefly, but about to go to bed. what's up?
[01:24] <hazmat> mdz, any thoughts on the jdk stuff?
[01:26] <jdub> hazmat: it's something that would end up in multiverse, if anywhere
[01:26] <mdz> Kamion: nothing to wait up for, just wanted to chat about germinate/cd/installer stuff
[01:26] <mdz> hazmat: I posted to -devel about it
[01:28] <Kamion> mdz: I'll be around tomorrow evening, if you like
[01:28] <mdz> Kamion: sounds fine, good night
[01:28] <mdz> Kamion: feeling better?
[01:29] <Kamion> mdz: much, yeah, kicked off most of it on Friday and Saturday
[01:30] <Kamion> mdz: good catch on bugreporter-udeb, btw, that had been at the back of my mind for ages and managed to fall out
[01:32] <pitti> night everybody!
[01:34] <hazmat> mdz, i was referring to the private emails sent re licensing
[01:34] <hazmat> and distribution
[01:35] <mdz> hazmat: oh, regarding gentoo?
[01:35] <hazmat> yeah
[01:35] <mdz> I don't think it gives us any direct course of action
[01:36] <mdz> we could certainly ask for different licensing terms
[01:36] <hazmat> i'm not sure how it fits into the licensing policy on the ubuntu site.. but it does appear that it would be possible to make an agreement by talking with folks at ibm.
[01:36] <Kamion> the question would be what it means for Ubuntu derivatives
[01:37] <mdz> how it fits into the licensing policy is that since no source code is available, it won't go in main, and thus won't go on the CD
[01:37] <mdz> and thus won't be installed by default
[01:37] <hazmat> ok
[01:37] <mdz> but if we can redistribute it, it can go in the package repository so that users can easily install it if they want it
[01:37] <hazmat> i'd just like to see some option for package based installation of java apps/systems
[01:37] <hazmat> cool
[01:38] <mdz> to be honest, I think that the free java situation is better than most people think
[01:38] <Kamion> if it's under restrictive terms (either to us or to derivatives of Ubuntu), it should go in restricted or multiverse so that we aren't pretending to people that it's free
[01:38] <mdz> and that if someone invested serious effort in looking at the free java implementations, finding the most appropriate one, and integrating it well with the system, it could turn out quite nicely
[01:38] <Kamion> a large part of the licensing policy is about not lying to people
[01:38] <mdz> Kamion: right, it would only be eligible for multiverse
[01:39] <hazmat> mdz, gcj is useable for certain classes of apps. but for alot of things from azurerus (bt client) to tomcat, its just not going to work.
[01:39] <mdz> I got tomcat to start up with gij a couple of years ago
[01:39] <mdz> it didn't serve requests, of course :-)
[01:40] <mdz> but that was quite some time ago now
[01:40] <mdz> my understanding is that kaffe and sablevm are more complete than gij
[01:40] <Kamion> night folks
[01:41] <hazmat>  interesting.. i'll take a look, thats cool re tomcat
[01:41] <hazmat> mdz, but it would require also packaging up those apps differently i assume then a jre based package install?
[01:42] <hazmat> for gcj that is
[01:42] <mdz> hazmat: gij is a bytecode interpreter
[01:43] <hazmat> cool, i'll take a look, thanks
[02:09] <Matt|> ummm... after the hoary updates this afternoon, gnome takes much longer to load. Any ideas why this might be? is it because of the removal of the fam package?
[02:13] <mdz> Matt|: I wouldn't expect so
[02:14] <Matt|> hi mdz 
[02:14] <Matt|> sorry if this is the wrong chan for that question
[02:14] <Matt|> i haven't changed anything else except for updating hoary
[02:16] <Matt|> mdz, any further ideas? you haven't seen this problem?
[02:17] <mdz> no, I haven't
[02:17] <Matt|> :(
[02:18] <Matt|> you think i should leave it?
[02:22] <Matt|> mdz?
[02:22] <mdz> I'm sorry, but I'm quite busy and can't help you with this just now
[02:23] <Matt|> ok np
[02:23] <mdz> maybe someone on #ubuntu can
[02:23] <Matt|> sorry for pestering
[03:47] <tuo2> mmm..
[03:47] <tuo2> netspilty goodness.
[03:50] <jdub> mdz: are we fundamentally set on 'no cd re-releases'?
[04:02] <jdub> mdz: "The Ubuntu installation took four more hours because of all the updates it had to drag down over my crappy 128kb/s line, but it was worth it. I particularly like the chocolate colour they use for the background. Mmm, chocolate."
[04:08] <mdz> jdub: I don't think I buy that figure, even at 128kbps
[04:08] <jdub> where are we at in MB?
[04:10] <mdz> I'd estimate ~20
[04:10] <mdz> which at 128kbps is ~20 minutes
[04:11] <mdz> and we deliberately made it optional to download updates from the network for exactly this reason
[04:11] <mdz> a single xfree86 update could be more than all of the existing updates combined
[04:12] <mdz> and they will happen, especially the day after a point release
[04:12] <jdub> yeah
[04:16] <jdub> by the six or twelve month point, it might be significantly larger
[04:17] <mdz> Mark and I discussed the idea of security update CDs, which I think solves the problem in a nicer way than point releases
[04:17] <mdz> release a CD with _only_ the security updates, which automagically installs them when you insert it
[04:18] <mdz> then warty stays warty forever
[04:18] <mdz> no confusion over which version of the install CD you downloaded
[04:19] <jdub> oh right
[04:20] <jdub> would version-confusion really be a problem?
[04:22] <mdz> it already was for us during the pre-warty period
[04:22] <jdub> that makes sense though
[04:22] <jdub> because that's pre-final
[04:22] <jdub> the version actually matters
[04:22] <jdub> the installer's changing, etc.
[04:22] <mdz> point releases also require install regression testing
[04:22] <mdz> while security update CDs don't
[04:23] <jdub> mmm, there's currently no way to use those directly from the installer though
[04:23] <jdub> (minor)
[04:23] <mdz> it wouuld be so trivial if we hadn't disabled autorun :-/
[04:24] <mdz> (assuming it works in warty if enabled)
[04:27] <lupus_> is it normal if you make a link with nautilius and then move the link to another dir
[04:27] <lupus_> it can not find the app it was pointing to anymore?
[04:29] <lupus_> nm 
[04:29] <lupus_> I see the problem
[05:57] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:10] <mdz> morning
[06:14] <fabbione> mdz: you are supposed to be in holidays.. no?
[06:14] <fabbione> ;)
[07:55] <fabbione> hey doko
[07:56] <fabbione> doko: gcc-3.3.4 was giving tons of FAIL
[07:56] <fabbione> i am trying to build 3.3.5 now
[07:56] <fabbione> i saw in the changelog something about sparc
[07:57] <fabbione> perhaps the 2 are related
[07:58] <doko> moin fabbione
[07:58] <doko> with x.org?
[07:58] <fabbione> no no.. i am talking about the sparc port
[07:58] <fabbione> gcc was failing all the test suite
[07:58] <fabbione> i am not building x.org yet on sparc
[07:59] <fabbione> phase1 of main yet :-)
[08:00] <doko> ugh, could you have a look at build/gcc/testsuite/*.log to see if the failures do have the same cause? if you want to speed up the build, maybe set WITHOUT_LANGUAGES=ada,java,objc,f77,treelang
[08:00] <fabbione> i guess the next 3 packages will take ages
[08:01] <fabbione> doko: sorry.. i already killed the chroot
[08:01] <fabbione> i am going to check 3.3.5
[08:01] <fabbione> the other one was 3.3.4-9ubuntuX
[08:01] <fabbione> but if it will fail i will grab logs for you
[08:01] <fabbione> take into account this is a sid chroot building ubuntu packages for the first time
[08:02] <fabbione> --take(hoary): gcc-3.3_1:3.3.5-2 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd
[08:02] <fabbione> --take(hoary): gcc-3.4_3.4.3-0ubuntu0 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd
[08:02] <fabbione> --take(hoary): perl_5.8.4-4 changed from Needs-Build to Building by sparcbuildd as sparcbuildd
[08:02] <fabbione> this means at least 4 days of work
[08:03] <doko> wondering what is different from unstable...
[08:03] <fabbione> doko: in theory nothing
[08:04] <fabbione> since it's a sid chroot
[08:04] <fabbione> well we will see
[08:04] <fabbione> in the worst case i will figure a way to give you access and poke around :-)
[08:04] <fabbione> hmmm
[08:05] <fabbione> this is sparc64...
[08:05] <fabbione> i wonder if it is using automatically the call to sparc32 before building
[08:05] <fabbione> well i will take a look and see
[08:05] <fabbione> it's nothing urgent atm
[08:10] <doko> it fails in stage1?
[08:12] <doko> the call to sparc32 isn't done automagically, IIRC I explicitely call 'sparc32 dpkg-buildpackage ...'
[08:27] <fabbione> doko: that's what i am afraid of in buildd/sbuild setup
[08:28] <fabbione> i will see when it goes to the testsuite again
[08:28] <fabbione> but other packages buildded fine
[08:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: that mail to -devel will just cause everybody to try to install hoary. :)
[08:32] <fabbione> good
[08:32] <fabbione> so they will probably learn that playing with unstable is not a good idea
[08:33] <bob2> then they will whinge
[08:34] <bob2> and say "ubuntu is unstable, LOLZ!!!1 Im r going back 2 gentoo."
[08:34] <doko> fabbione: touching /etc/disable_64_gcc will ensure, that -m32 is append to the arguments, iff you call 'gcc'.
[08:34] <fabbione> doko: interesting..
[08:34] <fabbione> i will try that switch if it will still fails
[08:46] <Mithrandir> thom: moo?
[08:59] <jdub> bob2: "u may have x.org, but warez my window shadowz? HA HA! rofl"
[08:59] <bob2> jdub: and then when composite is enabled, "omg ubuntu is teh slowz0r"
[09:00] <fabbione> and teh unst4bl3
[09:00] <Mithrandir> heh
[09:00] <fabbione> given that daniels is alive and awake
[09:01] <fabbione> jeppa.. new compiler!
[09:01] <fabbione> bye bye ccache :-)
[09:03] <fabbione> ah crap 
[09:03] <fabbione> i need to hack the hp441
[09:03] <fabbione> none of the obviuos passwords work
[09:07] <Mithrandir> tried 31337?
[09:07] <Mithrandir> :P
[09:12] <fabbione> ehehe
[09:12] <fabbione> user1 user2 user3 user4 no passwd :-)
[09:12] <fabbione> root passwd is now owned :-)
[09:12] <fabbione> warty live is pretty useful
[09:13] <bob2> heh, what were they preinstalled with?
[09:13] <fabbione> mandrake
[09:13] <bob2> ew
[09:13] <fabbione> the boot sequence is nice..
[09:13] <fabbione> i took some pics..
[09:13] <fabbione> the X config is easy
[09:13] <fabbione> now the real issue is to understand how much they did patch to make everything working
[09:14] <fabbione> kernel is custom
[09:14] <fabbione> i know that X wants a patch to work in that environment
[09:14] <fabbione> and i can't check all the audio devices (yet)
[09:18] <fabbione> MY EYES
[09:18] <fabbione> there is KDE3.1
[09:26] <mvo_> good morning!
[09:27] <fabbione> hey mvo_ 
[09:34] <fabbione> http://www.fabbione.net/hp441/IMG_0358.JPG
[09:34] <fabbione> doesn't it look cute?
[09:40] <doko> fabbione: you need flat screens.
[09:41] <bob2> you have entirely too much hardware, fabbione 
[09:41] <fabbione> doko: ehehe
[09:42] <fabbione> bob2: it's never enough when you maintain X
[09:42] <bob2> fabbione: hah
[09:55] <pitti> mvo_: Hello Mr. Dipl.-Inf! Congratulations for finishing your Diploma and university!
[10:00] <mvo_> hey pitti 
[10:00] <mvo_> thanks a lot!
[10:00] <bob2> oh, congrats, mvo
[10:00] <bob2> do we get you fulltime now?
[10:01] <mvo_> bob2: yes :)
[10:03] <Mithrandir> mvo_: you're done?  Congrats! :)
[10:04] <mvo_> Mithrandir: yeah! thanks. yesterday was my research presentation, now it's done
[10:05] <Mithrandir> I envy you.. I'm doing a project now, then diploma thesis in spring.
[10:06] <mvo_> it feels good when it's over, diploma thesis was a lot of work
[10:08] <justdave> :)
[10:14] <pitti> Happy birthday, justdave!
[10:30] <daniels> justdave: happy birthday :)
[10:45] <mvo_> hi rabidbt 
[10:45] <mvo_> hi rburton :)
[10:45] <rburton> haha
[10:45] <rburton> hi nci)
[10:48] <Mithrandir> justdave: congrats :)
[11:14] <ChrisH> Hmm. Has anyone else seen conflicts between libxklavier8 and libxklavier9 when dist-upgrade'ing to hoary?
[11:14] <bob2> yes
[11:14] <bob2> something.xml?
[11:15] <ChrisH> Yep.
[11:15] <ChrisH> Purging ...8 isn't wise either since it wants to remove some hardly used things like "nautilus". ;)
[11:15] <ChrisH> Perhaps I should file a bug report.
[11:16] <seb128> libxklavier9 Replaces libxklavier8
[11:16] <bob2> I got it a couple of days ago, it might be fixed now
[11:17] <seb128> no, it's not
[11:17] <seb128> nobody reported anything, I've not changed anything so ...
[11:18] <ChrisH> seb128: like a bugzilla entry?
[11:18] <seb128> yes
[11:18] <bob2> I figured it was a x.org thing
[11:18] <seb128> but you could start by giving the error/pb here :)
[11:19] <seb128> perhaps, I've not idea of what your are talking about, out of the fact that's a libxklavier problem
[11:19] <bob2> sure, getting ahead of myself, sorry :)
[11:20] <ChrisH> seb128: Ok. :) Just upgraded from warty to hoary. Everything went well unless that upgrading libxklavier8 failed because of conflicts in an XML file (need to scroll back to see what it was).
[11:20] <ChrisH> seb128: Currently libxclavier8 and libxclavier9 are both installed so the "Replaces" or "Conflits" didn't seem to work.
[11:20] <seb128> ChrisH: the weird thing is that libxklavier9 has a "Replaces"
[11:20] <ChrisH> seb128: If I want to remove libxclavier8 now I wants to remove many base packages.
[11:20] <seb128> I've not set a Conflicts
[11:20] <ChrisH> seb128: "Replaces" should be sufficient.
[11:21] <seb128> that's why I've not set the conflict for the moment :p
[11:21] <seb128> $ apt-cache show libxklavier9 | grep Replace
[11:21] <seb128> Replaces: libxklavier7, libxklavier8
[11:22] <ChrisH> seb128: I can even reinstall libxklavier9 and it does not start to remove anything else.
[11:23] <seb128> it's not supposed to remove something
[11:23] <seb128> do you still have the exact error message ?
[11:23] <ChrisH> seb128: I try.
[11:24] <daniels> seb128: um, you need Conflicts as well
[11:25] <bob2> they can't conflict
[11:25] <fabbione> or otherwise remove that xfree86.xml
[11:25] <bob2> tons of stuff is built against 8 still
[11:25] <daniels> Conflicts: otherpackage (<< versionwhereyoumovedthefileover)
[11:25] <fabbione> and use /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86.xml
[11:25] <daniels> if they both provide the same file at the same time, the only solution is alternatives
[11:25] <bob2> ah
[11:26] <fabbione> all of this because libxklavier upstream is a sadist developer that loves to duplicate mess around
[11:26] <fabbione> like if one xfree86.xml isn't enough source of problems
[11:26] <ChrisH> seb128: Can't get it to spit out the error message again. Scrolled out of my terminal buffer.
[11:26] <seb128> ChrisH: ok ...
[11:27] <fabbione> seb128: 9 tries to overwrite /usr/share/something/xfree86.xml
[11:27] <seb128> it has a Replaces
[11:27] <fabbione> it's the same error i told you about yesterday
[11:27] <seb128> that should not be a problem
[11:27] <fabbione> it is not enough
[11:27] <seb128> why ?
[11:27] <fabbione> you need to conflicts
[11:27] <fabbione> see what daniels wrote above
[11:27] <seb128> I know but if I don't that I totally fuck GNOME time to rebuild all the packages
[11:27] <seb128> s/don't/do/
[11:28] <seb128> so I'll add the conflict later
[11:28] <fabbione> seb128: sane thing to do: kill xfree86.xml from /usr/share
[11:28] <seb128> but it's probably needed 
[11:28] <fabbione> that's the only thing you really need to do
[11:28] <daniels> huh? why is libxklavier providing its own xfree86.xml anyway?
[11:28] <fabbione> seb128: use /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86.xml please
[11:28] <seb128> ok
[11:28] <seb128> I'll try this
[11:28] <fabbione> daniels: it uses it as test suite (build time)
[11:29] <daniels> blargh
[11:29] <fabbione> and even tho.. that's stupid
[11:29] <daniels> just build-dep on xlibs, or xlibs-data
[11:29] <fabbione> it should use the X provided one
[11:55] <thom> Mithrandir: oink?
[11:56] <Mithrandir> oink
[11:58] <thom> Mithrandir: that was in response to your moo of earlier
[11:59] <Mitario> lo everyone
[11:59] <Mithrandir> thom: oh, do you think you could test a libc package for me?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> before I upload it?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> thom: ravel:~tfheen/hoary/libc6_*.deb
[12:00] <thom> sure
[12:01] <cenerentola> ciao
[12:01] <Mithrandir> thom: they work on ravel, if they don't blow up on your system, I think they're fine.
[12:01] <Mithrandir> thom: also please see if it fixes the fakeroot issue
[12:02] <thom> was gonna, yeah
[12:02] <thom> do they for you?
[12:04] <Mithrandir> yup
[12:05] <thom> rock, what did you change?
[12:07] <Mithrandir> thom: removed GLIBC_PASSES += nptl
[12:07] <Mithrandir> since we use nptl anyway and TLS.
[12:08] <thom> ah
[12:08] <thom> yeah, they solve the fakeroot issue for me
[12:08] <Mithrandir> yay.
[12:08] <thom> and nothing else has broken :-)
[12:08] <Mithrandir> that's neat.
[12:08] <Mithrandir> I guess I can upload, then. :)
[12:08] <thom> please do
[12:14] <madduck> lamont: ping?
[12:21] <robtaylor> who'se working on laptop support?
[12:21] <bob2> mjg59 is Mr Mad Phat Laptop Support
[12:21] <Mithrandir> at least mr mad. :)
[12:22] <robtaylor> heh.. *at least* ;)
[12:22] <Mithrandir> he's crazy.  A really good guy.
[12:22] <robtaylor> mjg59: shampoo rock. thats all i have to say.. are you around? 
[12:24] <robtaylor> Mithrandir: mjg59 and tbm were at my housewarming on saturday - a good time was had by all :)
[12:28] <ddaa> bob2: mjg59 _almost_ got my t42p fully functional on sunday, but then he gave up. For some unknown reason, hotplug was breaking acpi and prevented wakeup...
[12:29] <bob2> hah
[12:29] <bob2> close tho
[12:30] <robtaylor> ddaa: t42p?
[12:31] <robtaylor> ibm?
[12:31] <ddaa> robtaylor: yeah
[12:31] <robtaylor> v. odd
[12:31] <ddaa> yeah
[12:32] <ddaa> his guess was that hotplug triggered a timing problem
[12:32] <ddaa> race condition or something like that
[12:32] <robtaylor> what were the symptoms?
[12:33] <ddaa> you can check the log for sunday, he gave some data...
[12:33] <ddaa> but then you do not have his source package either
[12:33] <robtaylor> ah, just interested ;)
[12:34] <ddaa> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-2004-11-07.html
[12:34] <ddaa> at the bottom of the page
[12:40] <robtaylor> ddaa: hmmmmm
[12:41] <robtaylor> ddaa: sounds like thats gonna need a bit of kernel tracing to figure it out..
[12:41] <ddaa> *shrugs*
[12:41] <ddaa> not my dept, really
[12:41] <robtaylor> heh, indeed
[01:00] <elmo> Kamion: done - and wvstreams wasn't going in because mdz broke katie, fixed/worked around now
[01:01] <mjg59> robtaylor: Yo
[01:01] <Kamion> elmo: heh, ok, thanks. Out of curiosity, what was broken?
[01:02] <Kamion> elmo: hopefully that should pull libfam out of desktop, btw
[01:04] <elmo> mythmusic has gotten into some very confused state - the files are in the pool, but not the DB, AFAICT
[01:04] <Kamion> yuck
[01:04] <Kamion> oh, bleh, the priorities in our override file are fucked, makes it a pain to use dselect
[01:05] <elmo> yeah
[01:05] <elmo> I started on that before warty released but never finished - I think I managed to demote anything not in main at least
[01:06] <fabbione> hey elmo
[01:06] <daniels> elmo: when do you expect to be around today?
[01:07] <elmo> hey fabbione
[01:07] <elmo> daniels: the rest of the day, I guess
[01:07] <daniels> elmo: cool; hi, btw :)
[01:08] <fabbione> elmo: testing the last bits for X.org here
[01:08] <fabbione> we will need your help to get it in the archive
[01:09] <Kamion> lamont: can we start doing daily d-i builds for Hoary?
[01:10] <elmo> fabbione: ok
[01:10] <daniels> elmo: should be two NEW (xorg and xorg-driver-synaptics) for two removed (xfree86 and xfree86-driver-synaptics) for core stuff
[01:10] <daniels> elmo: plus an xcompmgr package at some stage also
[01:11] <daniels> elmo: (the new source packages coming with a crapload more binary packages, because we know lamont enjoys pain)
[01:11] <fabbione> and people will have to complain to jdub for them
[01:14] <jdub> fabbione: hrm?
[01:14] <seb128> fabbione: the copy/paste with emacs is supposed to be fixed ?
[01:14] <elmo> seed syncage ---> baby jesus == :-(((
[01:15] <fabbione> seb128: no
[01:15] <seb128> ok
[01:15] <daniels> elmo: wouldn't that be baby jesus == :'(
[01:15] <seb128> because it's not :p
[01:15] <fabbione> jdub: for all the libs you want splitted to look 31337
[01:15] <fabbione> seb128: the problem is not emacs
[01:15] <fabbione> i can copy & paste from emacs to xterm for eg.
[01:16] <fabbione> the problem are gtk1 application as carlos wrote already on the mailing list
[01:16] <elmo> figlet                                     | figlet                           | apache (Build-Depend)          
[01:16] <elmo> WTF?
[01:16] <fabbione> ahahhaah
[01:16] <daniels> elmo: baby jesus isn't crying, he's just confused
[01:16] <fabbione> that's something we changed in debian
[01:16] <jdub> fabbione: why so?
[01:16] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, I know, I speak about emacs because that's the anoying part for me :p I don't know how the copy/paste internals work ...
[01:16] <fabbione> jdub: "why so" what?
[01:16] <daniels> seb128: it's gtk1 crack
[01:16] <carlos> seb128: use gvim :-P
[01:17] <seb128> $ apt-cache show emacs21 | grep gtk
[01:17] <seb128> $
[01:17] <jdub> fabbione: what do the X libs have to do with me?
[01:17] <fabbione> jdub: you have been complaining that we are not 31337 if we don't show libxcomposite & CO.
[01:17] <fabbione> not me
[01:17] <fabbione> that leads to a 16 libraries split
[01:17] <fabbione> * 3
[01:17] <fabbione> lib
[01:17] <fabbione> lib-dev
[01:17] <fabbione> lib-dbg
[01:18] <robtaylor> mjg59: hey :) done any playing about with toshiba tecras?
[01:18] <fabbione> jdub: you pointed out a non-existing problem :-)
[01:18] <robtaylor> mjg59: (oh, and did you enjoy the party? :)
[01:18] <fabbione> anyway
[01:18] <fabbione> now
[01:18] <fabbione> there are 48 more packages
[01:18] <jdub> fabbione: there are no dynamic libs for xcomposite atm - that problem exists...
[01:18] <fabbione> as soon as we finish to test we will upload
[01:19] <fabbione> and what is the problem if i ship them static?
[01:19] <Kamion> we need a Unicode character for "baby jesus" to simplify elmo's equations
[01:19] <fabbione> Kamion: lol
[01:20] <elmo> fabbione: dude, figlet's in non-free
[01:20] <fabbione> elmo: it's still in main
[01:20] <jdub> fabbione: um, i'm not criticising your work here, dude, i'm just pointing out an issue that will need to be solved at some stage for hoary.
[01:20] <fabbione> jdub: if you can explain me the issue...
[01:20] <mjg59> robtaylor: Haven't touched a tecra, so no real idea. And yes, what I remember of it...
[01:21] <fabbione> jdub: once i provide you the headers and the lib to link with.. what do you miss?
[01:21] <jdub> fabbione: currently we only have static xcomposite libs. at some stage, we should also have separate dynamic lib packages.
[01:21] <mjg59> Is the Xcomposite ABI frozen yet?
[01:21] <daniels> mjg59: yes
[01:21] <elmo> fabbione: yeah, the maintainer didn't, err, manage to transition it to non-free yet
[01:22] <fabbione> elmo: ah ok...
[01:22] <fabbione> elmo: i will fix it for the next upload. don't worry
[01:22] <daniels> i think fabio's point was that libxcomposite has always worked, it's just been non-dynamic up until now; splitting stuff out into dynamic packages caused a massive split so we've now got ~48 new packages
[01:22] <Kamion> elmo: hm, #274950 about that is closed?
[01:22] <fabbione> elmo: but it's too much fun to see a dynamic buildlog changing "size" according to the arch it's building on
[01:22] <Mithrandir> elmo: so we need to reimplement figlet in a free fashion.
[01:23] <fabbione> elmo: and according to the buildd maintainer
[01:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: track down the original authors, they clearly intended it to be free but just didn't put the right boilerplate on it
[01:24] <Kamion> well, some of them, anyway
[01:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: any idea if they've been talked to yet?
[01:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no clue
[01:25] <Kamion> elmo: can I have rootskel-bootfloppy too, please?
[01:28] <Berge> Greetings.
[01:29] <Berge> I'm setting up Ubuntu on a laptop here. So far, I'm impressed (-:
[01:29] <Berge> Though it lacks a decent GUI-way (since this friend of mine (really!) likes GUI) of configuring wireless interfaces.
[01:30] <Berge> So Mithrandir points me to Network Manager.
[01:30] <Kamion> yeah, we'll be getting NetworkManager in Hoary
[01:30] <robtaylor> mjg59: heh. good, good :)
[01:30] <Mithrandir> doesn't thom have some debs lying about?
[01:30] <fabbione> libs/db3_3.2.9-20 [required:uncompiled] 
[01:30] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, the maintainer thought he transitioned it, but he ended up putting the source in main, the binary in non-free and broke - I unbroke it and let him know a couple of weeks ago I think
[01:30] <Berge> I found those..
[01:30] <fabbione> does it mean is going to be built?
[01:30] <Kamion> elmo: d'oh
[01:30] <Kamion> elmo: should I reopen that bug?
[01:31] <elmo> kamion: yeah, probably a plan
[01:31] <elmo> rootskel-bootfloppy done
[01:31] <Kamion> .changes file looks like it was the source in non-free and the binary in main
[01:32] <Kamion> elmo: done
[01:33] <fabbione> elmo: if i flush the binary packages in one archive and i re-run quinn-diff with an update Packages file, will the old packages be rescheduled for build?
[01:34] <elmo> fabbione: should be, yes
[01:34] <Kamion> though what I'll test them on I'm not quite sure; guess I can do an i386 install with floppies on amd64, for true retro value
[01:34] <fabbione> elmo: so it's normal that wanna-build --list=installed
[01:34] <fabbione> gives a short list of packages?
[01:35] <elmo> fabbione: 'installed' means "built - nothing needs done", if you flushed the archive, you'd expect most evertything to be in 'needs-build'
[01:35] <fabbione> elmo: so basically wanna-build is "inconsistent" and i need to kill its db
[01:36] <elmo> *shrug* it's usually the quickest way to get w-b to behave, yeah 
[01:37] <fabbione> ok
[01:37] <fabbione> it's not a problem really
[01:37] <fabbione> i figured that i was building 64 bit binaries for sparc
[01:37] <fabbione> and that's why gcc was failing
[01:37] <fabbione> so i need to rebuild everything anyway
[01:37] <fabbione> (not that it did build that much)
[01:42] <cenerentola> sorry does someone know where lulu is?
[01:44] <fabbione> elmo: danke! it's working now
[01:45] <lulu> cenerentola: I'm dealing with your request at the moment. I will email you shortly.
[01:45] <cenerentola> lulu: you're precious
[01:45] <cenerentola> ahhh...
[01:45] <cenerentola> who's gonna come with me on saturday night in mataro?
[01:49] <daniels> god, I love adare almost as much as I adore concordia
[01:49] <daniels> xorg is looking good thus far on powerpc and amd64; of course, thanks to the fact i386 is crap, it's probably totally broken there :P
[01:53] <fabbione> except that i386 is the only arch where we can do real testing atm :P
[02:16] <carlos> Anyone knows why aptitude wants to reinstall any package I remove with synaptic or dpkg ?
[02:20] <thom> because aptitude sucks monkey nuts, and has a solipsism complex
[02:20] <daniels> someone should fix that
[02:20] <Kamion> sigh, 2.6 installer floppies are way oversized
[02:20] <Kamion> -rw-r--r--   1 root root 1017902 2004-11-08 16:09 vmlinuz
[02:20] <Kamion> -rw-r--r--   1 root root  689701 2004-11-09 12:49 initrd.gz
[02:21] <fabbione> uh??
[02:21] <fabbione> can't we split the initrd on the second floppy?
[02:21] <Kamion> fabbione: we do
[02:21] <fabbione> oh
[02:21] <Kamion> this is just what's needed on the first floppy
[02:21] <fabbione> "oversized"
[02:22] <Kamion> I suppose I could strip out USB storage modules, but that's a big functionality kick
[02:23] <fabbione> hmmm
[02:23] <fabbione> do you target these floppies to install from non-bootable cdrom?
[02:23] <ddaa> thom: aptitude rocks. Therefore what you call "solipsism complex" is just the rest of the world not adapting to aptitude :-)
[02:24] <ddaa> thom: but if you can tell me about something else that handles automatic removal of uneeded packages...
[02:25] <fabbione> ddaa: debfoster or deborphan
[02:25] <thom> ddaa: um, you're on even more drugs than usual
[02:25] <carlos> thom: I thought aptitude was the "recomended" application by Ubuntu team over apt-get ...
[02:26] <mojo> hi everyone
[02:26] <fabbione> carlos: that locale error is not an error
[02:26] <fabbione> carlos: it's a warning
[02:26] <mjg59> ddaa: Ok, I have what seems to be a sane kernel :)
[02:26] <thom> carlos: i don't remember anyone saying that :-)
[02:26] <carlos> fabbione: yes, sorry
[02:26] <carlos> fabbione: I know, I always confuse it
[02:27] <seb128> thom: do you know that firefox is ftbfsing on amd64 ?
[02:27] <carlos> fabbione: I mean, I know it's harmless, but I always talk about it as an error where I should say warning
[02:27] <thom> seb128: yes
[02:27] <carlos> thom: I don't remember I saw it O:-)
[02:27] <carlos> thom: I don't remember where I saw it O:-)
[02:27] <thom> mithrandir has fixed glbic
[02:27] <thom> glibc
[02:27] <mojo> when seb128 upload the new 1.0 Firefox???
[02:28] <seb128> thom: ok, just wanted to be sure. Some people were complaining yesterday because devhelp is broken (out of sync between the amd64 and all packages) 
[02:28] <thom> mojo: i'll probably upload it tomorrow morning
[02:28] <mojo> cool
[02:28] <thom> seb128: yeah :( nasty fakeroot/NPTL issue
[02:28] <seb128> ok
[02:29] <mjg59> ddaa: Uploading it now. It does STR and STD here
[02:29] <thom> i'll wait till i can check lamont has refreshed the buildds then push a 1.0
[02:29] <mojo> seb128: I went to the GNOME board, they said they fixed the blur SVG image issue of gnome-games in 2.9.1 but I still find SVG images in Solitaire and some other games are still blur
[02:29] <ddaa> mjg59: I cannot test it right now (I training my lappy to be a production machine), but I will _surely_ do it.
[02:30] <mjg59> ddaa: Rock
[02:30] <seb128> mojo: you filled a bug report ?
[02:30] <mjg59> robtaylor: Got a kernel here for you to test if you have a chance
[02:30] <mojo> seb128: not yet, still wondering is it Ubuntu bug or GNOME itself bug
[02:31] <ddaa> thom: not an drug, i have tried deborphan, and it is not effective.
[02:31] <mojo> seb128: the Clear Recent Document's Clear Button does not work here, maybe u should have a check on this
[02:32] <mjg59> It's confusing, though. I seem to be using almost identical ACPI code.
[02:32] <thom> ddaa: when you say that a well built system should change because one app can't play nice with it, you're on drugs.
[02:32] <ddaa> actually, aptitude takes the right approach: auto-marking needs to be done in the package manager.
[02:32] <mjg59> Oh, arse. This won't have the acpi_wakeup_address->physical address thing.
[02:32] <seb128> mojo: there is a bug report about it, do you have "gamin" installed ?
[02:32] <ddaa> thom: there was a smilie
[02:33] <ddaa> I have extensive first hand experience in software with a solipsism complex. And I assure you that at least _some_ people would push that line.
[02:33] <thom> automarking, sure. but reinstalling something that dpkg has marked as removed? no.
[02:34] <mojo> seb128: let me check
[02:34] <Kamion> fabbione: cd_drivers or net_drivers, you choose
[02:34] <ddaa> thom: sure. It's on crack. But it's the only package manager that does automarking...
[02:34] <mojo> seb128: yes, I got "gamin" already installed
[02:34] <Kamion> fabbione: if you use cd_drivers as the driver floppy, it'll retrieve more udebs from CD; if you use net_drivers, it'll retrieve udebs from a networked archive
[02:35] <seb128> ok
[02:35] <fabbione> Kamion: kill the net driver if the floppies are done to be able to access the cdrom
[02:35] <seb128> mojo: in fact I've the problem too, I'll work on this later
[02:35] <Kamion> fabbione: no.
[02:35] <Kamion> fabbione: WHY?
[02:35] <fabbione> hmmm
[02:35] <Kamion> fabbione: net_drivers is a SEPARATE FLOPPY
[02:35] <Kamion> as is cd_drivers
[02:36] <fabbione> Kamion: you said before that you can kill usb keyboard whatever to make 2.6 fitting in one floppy
[02:36] <fabbione> ahhhh
[02:36] <fabbione> ok
[02:36] <Kamion> the boot floppy knows how to load more floppies and a bit of hardware and that's about it
[02:36] <fabbione> soi tought that perpaps you can kill netdrivers from the floppy and get tehm from cdrom
[02:36] <Kamion> I didn't say anything about USB keyboards
[02:36] <Kamion> please look at the package list before continuing :)
[02:36] <fabbione> Kamion: never mind me.. really.. i just got confused
[02:37] <mojo> seb128: and Trash can't empty files too!!!!
[02:37] <seb128> mojo: that's a devel branch, use warty if you want a stable system
[02:38] <mojo> seb128: ofcourse I know, I'm testing it with u guys now
[02:38] <seb128> ok, so don't "!!!!!"
[02:38] <seb128> just report problem, I'm already working on something
[02:38] <mojo> seb128: sorry, abit sentimental with Ubuntu, (really love Ubuntu )
[02:39] <Kamion> anyone understand http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wvstreams/3.75.0-1ubuntu3/wvstreams_3.75.0-1ubuntu3_20041109-1202-i386-failed ?
[02:39] <daniels> Kamion: sure, jadetex exited with status 1 for some reason
[02:40] <fabbione> daniels: probably he would like to know the reason :-)
[02:40] <daniels> jade:E: cannot open "/usr/lib/sgml/stylesheet/dsssl/docbook/nwalsh/print/docbook.dsl" (No such file or directory)
[02:40] <daniels> jade:E: specification document does not have the DSSSL architecture as a base architecture
[02:40] <daniels> could well be related
[02:41] <mojo> seb128: please include d4x in Hoary, I got my friends working hard to create a pure GNOME theme for it + some hack on icon and about menu
[02:42] <thom> mojo: you need to suggest it on the wiki, then we'll discuss it and the tech board will make a decission on whether it's suitable
[02:42] <Kamion> hm, there was some alternatives bug I dimly remember ...
[02:42] <mojo> thom: OK I willm but the thing is I can't maintain nor create the package, I'm new to Deb file, can someone give me a hand??
[02:43] <Kamion> surely d4x has a Debian maintainer already
[02:43] <Kamion>        d4x | 2.5.0rel-1 |      unstable | source, i386, powerpc
[02:43] <Kamion> so I don't see why somebody needs to "create the package"
[02:44] <mojo> Kamion: I want to make an optimized + hacked menu and theme for Ubuntu
[03:00] <Kamion> daniels: aha, turned out to be that docbook-dsssl recently dropped the /usr/lib/sgml compatibility symlinks
[03:00] <pitti> ddaa: does this tbp daemon run as root?
[03:00] <daniels> Kamion: sensational
[03:00] <daniels> Kamion: who needs 'em? :)
[03:00] <Kamion> daniels: untested fix uploaded :-)
[03:00] <daniels> heh
[03:00] <pitti> ddaa: if so, we could easily fix #3292 without introducing a new group
[03:01] <Kamion> it's all /usr/share/sgml now
[03:04] <daniels> aj: oi
[03:04] <thom> Mithrandir: libc upload? :-)
[03:04] <daniels> Kamion: oh, you may know
[03:05] <daniels> Kamion: does britney log stuff anywhere?
[03:05] <daniels> Kamion: e.g. is there an easy way for me to get a delta of testing from oct 7th->19th
[03:05] <daniels> Kamion: (hypothetically)
[03:06] <jvw> daniels: just diff the packages files obtained via snapshot?
[03:06] <daniels> hm, point
[03:07] <Kamion> daniels: britney doesn't really log usefully, no
[03:07] <jvw> daniels: it's how this historical madison thingy works, anyway :)
[03:07] <jvw> (that aba was referring to)
[03:07] <daniels> jvw: ah, heh
[03:08] <jvw> (not exactly, it dumps all packages files in a database, first, but ok...)
[03:11] <robtaylor> mjg59: for tecra?
[03:11] <ddaa> pitti: I cannot be positive, but I do not think that running it as root would be possible or a good idea.
[03:12] <pitti> ddaa: so this is not a daemon?
[03:12] <mjg59> robtaylor: Generic nice ACPI love
[03:12] <ddaa> One major feature is the ability to bind shell commands to special keys.
[03:12] <pitti> ddaa: just an userspace program?
[03:12] <ddaa> pitti: yup
[03:12] <pitti> ddaa: argh; I find it totally ugly to give normal users the capability to mess up their BIOS settings
[03:12] <ddaa> it it does not even double-fork
[03:13] <pitti> ddaa: this sounds like a suid root problem
[03:13] <ddaa> ?
[03:13] <daniels> WHOO WHOO WHOO WHOO!
[03:13] <daniels> amd64 is *go* for xorg.
[03:13] <pitti> ddaa: meaning, I think it makes more sense to have tbp suid root and leave the device as root-only accessible
[03:13] <pitti> daniels: GO, X-MEN, GO!
[03:13] <daniels> and my god is concordia a beautiful machine
[03:14] <mjg59> pitti: That's require some extra code for tpb
[03:14] <pitti> ddaa: it might me slightly better to have tbp setgid nvram, and create the group
[03:14] <pitti> mjg59: ?
[03:14] <mjg59> pitti: It can be configured to run applications
[03:14] <ddaa> pitti: it works okay with sudo
[03:14] <mjg59> So you'd need to drop privileges
[03:15] <ddaa> except, of course, the custom command for special keys is run as root...
[03:15] <ddaa> here it is bound to x-terminal-emulator
[03:15] <pitti> mjg59: it sounds like the tbp design is screwed up from the ground up
[03:15] <pitti> there should be a daemon which communicates with /dev/nvram and an userspace program that talks to the daemon
[03:15] <mjg59> pitti: Oh, and it'll read arbitrary configuration files. So that'd have to be disabled, too, otherwise the user can get information about the contents of shadow (for isntance)
[03:15] <ddaa> so, now, it spawn a root terminal...
[03:16] <pitti> ddaa: ah, I see the problem
[03:16] <mjg59> pitti: Yes, in the brave new world of sensible messaging busses, that's be the right way of doing it
[03:16] <pitti> ddaa: however, I cannot test this program here
[03:16] <pitti> mjg59: any quickfix idea?
[03:16] <pitti> mjg59: _apart_ from putting users into nvram?
[03:16] <mjg59> pitti: No
[03:16] <ddaa> pitti: I'd happily let you play with it in mataro.
[03:16] <mjg59> If you're going to make the binary suid or sgid, it needs heavy reworking
[03:17] <pitti> ddaa: good idea, we can find a solution there
[03:18] <pitti> mjg59: suid root with sensible privilege dropping shouldn't be so difficult
[03:18] <pitti> mjg59: that's not the same as using sudo
[03:18] <mjg59> pitti: At the moment, I think it reads the config file before trying to open /dev/nvram
[03:18] <mjg59> So you'd need to change that
[03:18] <pitti> mjg59: the command would still have getuid() == normal user, but can use root privileges for accessing the device
[03:19] <mjg59> Seriously, it will need chunks rewriting
[03:19] <pitti> mjg59, ddaa: agree to fix that in Mataro? Then I can "deprivilegize" it and we can test it on ddaa's machine
[03:19] <pitti> mjg59: sure
[03:19] <mjg59> It's also never been audited
[03:19] <mjg59> So it's entirely possible that the user will have access rights to nvram anyway
[03:19] <pitti> mjg59: well, not by now
[03:20] <pitti> mjg59: since /dev/nvram is only accessible as root and tbp is  not suid root currently (AFAIUI)
[03:20] <mjg59> What's the argument against adding the user to nvram?
[03:20] <pitti> mjg59: access to nvram means access to BIOS settings, right?
[03:20] <pitti> mjg59: at least that's the documentation
[03:20] <mjg59> pitti: Uh. But tpb will have access rights to nvram. And we have no confidence that tpb can't be made to run arbitrary code
[03:20] <mjg59> pitti: Correct
[03:20] <mjg59> But the default user has physical access to the machine anyway
[03:21] <pitti> mjg59: and I _don't_ want user viruses to mess up the BIOS
[03:21] <pitti> mjg59: not necessarily
[03:21] <mjg59> It's CMOS
[03:21] <mjg59> It's not the flash
[03:21] <mjg59> The worst they can do is reset the machine to system defaults
[03:21] <pitti> mjg59: in our university, the computers are locked, but the CD-ROMs are accessible
[03:21] <daniels> mjg59: ... which is still not cool ...
[03:21] <mjg59> They can't rewrite the BIOS itself
[03:21] <pitti> mjg59: but they can alter the boot sequence, i. e. boot from CD-ROM
[03:22] <mjg59> pitti: They could open the machines in any case
[03:22] <pitti> mjg59: I could break our university's computers with this
[03:22] <lupus_> does the new pmount also support non removable devices?
[03:22] <lupus_> in the new version
[03:22] <pitti> mjg59: no, as I said, our machines are physically locked
[03:22] <pitti> lupus_: what do you mean?
[03:22] <mjg59> pitti: They could use a hacksaw
[03:22] <pitti> mjg59: people _might_ notice that :-)
[03:23] <mjg59> pitti: But fundamentally, making user-level programs suid or sgid is insane
[03:23] <lupus_> pitti pmount will give error if you use it for a partition on the harddrive
[03:23] <mjg59> The author won't have written it with security in mind. It's going to require a full audit. It'd make more sense to rewrite it from scratch.
[03:23] <pitti> mjg59: well, sgid nvram is no worse than putting the user into nvram
[03:23] <pitti> lupus_: right, that's our current policy
[03:23] <mjg59> pitti: Except that you're giving people a false sense of security
[03:23] <lupus_> k so policy is still the same in the new version ? :)
[03:23] <mjg59> Which *is* worse than making it obvious
[03:24] <mjg59> If you'd prefer it to be done in a client/daemon sort of way, I'll look into writing one
[03:24] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, I still believe in minimizing privileges, so if only tbp has the privilege rather than all programs, I'd favor that
[03:24] <pitti> mjg59: in fact client/daemon seems to be the sanest solution
[03:24] <pitti> mjg59: minimal daemon which runs as root and has a very tight interface
[03:25] <mjg59> It ought to just be a dbus setup
[03:25] <ddaa> Apparently, the only thing it needs nvram for is setting the volume...
[03:25] <pitti> mjg59: basically it just had to verify the input values and pass it to nvram
[03:25] <mjg59> ddaa: Oh, that's a point. Yeah, read access to nvram would be enough.
[03:25] <ddaa> I cannot see what else it needs it for.
[03:25] <mjg59> So, uh, why are we having this discussion again? :)
[03:25] <pitti> mjg59: ? I thought it also wants to change the volume?
[03:26] <pitti> mjg59: changing sounds like writing acces
[03:26] <mjg59> pitti: We can do without that functionality
[03:26] <mjg59> There's volume buttons on the machine
[03:26] <pitti> mjg59: so we could leave /dev/nvram to root:group 0640?
[03:26] <mjg59> Yeah, that'd do 
[03:27] <pitti> mjg59: and which group?
[03:27] <ddaa> pitti: ?
[03:27] <pitti> ddaa: audio?
[03:27] <mjg59> nvram makes sense
[03:27] <ddaa> The whole. issue is that write access is neede.
[03:27] <mjg59> Since that's what it is
[03:28] <mjg59> ddaa: Write access is needed for a tiny amount of the functionality
[03:28] <ddaa> mjg59: tiny critical amount of functionality.
[03:28] <pitti> mjg59: then we must create yet another group
[03:28] <mjg59> ddaa: Sorry, which functionality?
[03:29] <ddaa> sound volume control
[03:29] <mjg59> ddaa: It works fine without being able to write. 
[03:29] <ddaa> well, that's prolly another bug, but the mixer applet is ineffective.
[03:29] <mjg59> ddaa: That code is only used if you want it to jump a different number of steps
[03:29] <mjg59> If you leave it as default, it doesn't do anything to it
[03:29] <pitti> mjg59: so the sound volume is _not_ set by writing into /dev/nvram?
[03:30] <mjg59> pitti: There are two mixers on Thinkpads
[03:30] <mjg59> pitti: There's the one on the sound hardware, and there's a separate hardware one
[03:30] <ddaa> mjg59: ok, that's essentially a worthless feature.
[03:30] <mjg59> pitti: When you press the volume keys, it alters the hardware one, not the OSS/Alsa one
[03:30] <mjg59> pitti: The code is so that you can alter how much the volume buttons change the volume by. It's not a very useful feature.
[03:30] <pitti> mjg59: I see. The older thinkpads (that I know) still had a physical slider... How nice... :-)
[03:31] <pitti> mjg59: ah, I see. Sounds as if it can safely be dropped
[03:31] <azeem> pitti: could you program that slider to behave as a cross-fader? :)
[03:31] <pitti> mjg59: so #3292 is basically just about fixing the udev entry from root:nvram to root:root?
[03:32] <pitti> mjg59: btw, since the group does not exist, which group does udev assign to it?
[03:32] <ddaa> root
[03:32] <pitti> so this is only a cosmetic issue after all
[03:33] <mjg59> pitti: If you make the device 644, then the group doesn't matter
[03:33] <ddaa> pitti: no, that's pbd bug
[03:33] <ddaa> s/pbd/tpd/
[03:33] <pitti> mjg59: I have no problem with read access
[03:33] <ddaa> stupid tlas
[03:33] <pitti> mjg59: if it helps in any way, that is
[03:33] <mjg59> pitti: Only issue there is that on some machines the CMOS password will be readable and crackable
[03:34] <pitti> mjg59: oh, right
[03:34] <mjg59> Which then puts you back where you started
[03:34] <pitti> mjg59: so does read access provide any feature that we want to have?
[03:35] <mjg59> Without read access, tpb doesn't work
[03:35] <pitti> mjg59: at all?
[03:35] <mjg59> When you press keys, the BIOS writes new values into nvram so that it can default to them on next boot
[03:35] <pitti> mjg59: I thought it would need access just for this volume stepping?
[03:35] <mjg59> tpb watches the changes in these values
[03:36] <mjg59> It doesn't do anything otherwise
[03:36] <pitti> hmm, tricky
[03:36] <pitti> so basically we just need to rewrite this tiny part? Reading out /dev/nvram as root and do all other stuff as user?
[03:37] <mjg59> Yes
[03:37] <mjg59> So split it into a dbus daemon and client
[03:37] <mjg59> That way the client side can eventually be merged with clients for other hotkey devices
[03:37] <pitti> ugh, isn't dbus a bit heavy for this?
[03:38] <pitti> but for my sake
[03:38] <mjg59> pitti: dbus is going to be running anyway
[03:38] <pitti> mjg59: so, a nice TODO for mataro, I think
[03:38] <mjg59> Reinventing another message passing interface is just going to hurt
[03:38] <pitti> mjg59: unless you want to do it earlier :-)
[03:38] <pitti> agreed
[03:39] <pitti> mjg59: I'll sum that up in the bug report.
[03:42] <pitti> mjg59: can I assign the bug to you then?
[03:43] <mjg59> pitti: Hrm. I'd prefer not to right at the moment
[03:44] <pitti> okay
[03:52] <ddaa> yay... just figured out how to rewrite the sender-address with postfix... will make pqm happy!
[04:05] <daniels> ok, guys, if you are planning on uploading something to the archive -- PLEASE ASK MYSELF AND FABBIONE FIRST
[04:11] <daniels> (by the way: amd64 builds just fine; i386 builds and works just fine; powerpc is still building because the G5 Xserve is apparently slow)
[04:25] <Kamion> why the archive lock?
[04:26] <fabbione> dunno.. ask daniels 
[04:26] <fabbione> for me it's enough nobody uploads ubuntu-meta
[04:27] <daniels> Kamion: put it this way -- uploading 0ubuntu2 in a couple of hours would really suck
[04:27] <fabbione> on the otherside some Build-deps might need updates
[04:27] <daniels> Kamion: we'd just like to be reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaally sure nothing breaks :)
[04:27] <Kamion> daniels: mkay, well, do you mind me fixing this second round of wvstreams build failure?
[04:28] <fabbione> Kamion: we are only waiting for adare to finish
[04:28] <fabbione> question of few minutes
[04:28] <fabbione> and then we upload
[04:28] <daniels> Kamion: go nuts :)
[04:29] <daniels> Kamion: (that's not going to impact on xorg ... but if someone went and changed a library we b-d on from under us, f.e.)
[04:31] <Kamion> elmo: oh, any chance of king's hoary chroot being fixed to have the en_GB locale installed to match its environment, so that build logs are a bit less insanely noisy?
[04:31] <elmo> Kamion: can I just change's locale to be C?
[04:31] <Kamion> WFM
[04:31] <elmo> (and if so, how)
[04:31] <Kamion> oh, uh, dunno
[04:32] <Kamion> depends on the process that's chrooting into it I guess
[04:32] <elmo> hmm, well I could purge locales in base - will that do the trick? :)
[04:32] <elmo> hmm, someone did - maybe that's the problem
[04:33] <fabbione> mput ubuntu-meta_0.6* xorg-driver-synaptics_0.13.6* xorg_6.8.1* 
[04:33] <fabbione> 52064874 bytes transferred                                     
[04:33] <fabbione> Total 11 files transferred
[04:33] <fabbione> elmo: now it's up to you and your gf's
[04:34] <elmo> heh, lamont already tried to fix this, but typoed /etc/environmment (sic)
[04:34] <elmo> Kamion: should be good now
[04:35] <fabbione> ubuntu-meta ACCEPTED
[04:36] <fabbione> xorg_6.8.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
[04:36] <fabbione> xorg-driver-synaptics_0.13.6-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[04:36] <fabbione> is NEW
[04:36] <daniels> elmo: thanks
[04:37] <fabbione> holy fucking shit
[04:37] <fabbione> xorg_6.8.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[04:37] <fabbione> UHA UHA UHA
[04:37] <daniels> WARTHOGS DANCE!
[04:37] <pitti> You really unleashed the beast?
[04:37] <daniels> pitti: yeah, dude
[04:37] <pitti> fabbione, daniels: congrats!
[04:38] <fabbione> thanks pitti 
[04:38] <Kamion> elmo: he's not alone, that was typoed thus in base-config for ages too
[04:38] <fabbione> pitti: now it's all up to you to do scurity code review
[04:38] <pitti> fabbione: of the complete code? This will take me until tomorrow, then
[04:38] <Kamion> elmo: maybe he ran base-config new or something
[04:38] <Kamion> hooray, congratulations X team
[04:39] <daniels> Kamion: thanks dude :)
[04:39] <pitti> fabbione, daniels: BTW, will up upload this into experimental?
[04:39] <daniels> not yet
[04:39] <daniels> still needs updates for all the other debian architectures
[04:50] <fabbione> pitti: we also need to sync all debian changes and other stuff first
[04:50] <fabbione> it's not really a simple step get it into debian
[04:50] <pitti> fabbione: oh, don't hurry
[04:50] <pitti> fabbione: you already did a Herkules job with xorg
[04:50] <pitti> fabbione: I'm just curious :-)
[04:51] <fabbione> pitti: it will still be me uploading to experimental
[04:51] <fabbione> but i need to sync scripts and stuff
[04:51] <pitti> fabbione: did Branden say anything about X.org BTW?
[04:52] <fabbione> not at all
[04:52] <fabbione> he prepared a SVN repo for me where to commit
[04:52] <fabbione> and merge debian changes
[04:52] <fabbione> we have 2 sand boxes at the moment
[04:52] <fabbione> one for a monolithic drop
[04:52] <fabbione> and one for a fakesplit
[04:53] <fabbione> so what we will do is to import/merge the monolithic
[04:53] <fabbione> and than keep splitting
[04:53] <pitti> ah. AFAIK you already came quite far with the split, right?
[04:53] <pitti> it would be a pity to see this work being lost
[04:53] <fabbione> no no
[04:53] <fabbione> there is not too much code that is splitted
[04:53] <fabbione> manly the autodetection stuff
[04:53] <daniels> yeah, but I need to do some upstream work on the modular tree before we can start migrating
[04:54] <fabbione> that we might as well kill with X.org
[04:54] <daniels> and I want to start remembering what the outside world looks like first ;)
[04:54] <fabbione> or rework to a minimal stage
[04:54] <pitti> daniels: btw, are you still in .dk?
[04:54] <daniels> yeah
[04:54] <pitti> daniels: Here in .de we had the first snow today. I bet this is something unusual for an .au citizen :-)
[04:55] <daniels> cool!
[04:55] <Kamion> elmo: will the build tree from wvstreams_3.75.0-1ubuntu4_20041109-1439-i386-failed still be around?
[04:55] <pitti> cool is the right word
[04:55] <daniels> yeah, we only get snow up in the ski fields, way up in the mountains
[04:55] <azeem> pitti: where in germany are you?
[04:55] <daniels> melbourne winters are relatively time
[04:55] <pitti> azeem: Dresden, south-eastern border
[04:55] <azeem> people from the Ruhrgebiet stared at me over irc when I said it snowed here
[04:55] <azeem> ah
[04:56] <azeem> pitti: are you from Dresden, or do you just happen to live there?
[04:56] <pitti> azeem: I was born in Leipzig, but moved here in 1990.
[04:57] <elmo> Kamion: yeah
[04:57] <elmo> Kamion: want it ?
[04:57] <daniels> elmo: thanks dude, much appreciated
[04:57] <Kamion> elmo: yes please
[04:59] <elmo> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/wvstreams-3.75.0.tar.gz
[04:59] <elmo> daniels: np
[05:00] <elmo> doh
[05:01] <Mitario> hey guys
[05:01] <pitti> sjoerd: Hi!
[05:01] <pitti> sjoerd: BTW, I fixed my archive mirror, http should work now
[05:01] <Mitario> rburton, here?
[05:01] <sjoerd> pitti: cool
[05:02] <rburton> Mitario: i am
[05:02] <sjoerd> pitti: any changes since 0.3 ?
[05:02] <Mitario> rburton, have you seen the http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PackageManagement page?
[05:02] <pitti> sjoerd: no
[05:02] <rburton> oh no
[05:02] <sjoerd> pitti: k, i was just reading that so :)
[05:02] <Mitario> rburton, hmm, maybe you could add some summary about your pkg management app there? (just a suggestion)
[05:02] <pitti> sjoerd: no, I recreated the archive with the '-l' switch to generate .listing files; that caused the 404 (or, rather, their lack)
[05:05] <elmo> AIEE
[05:05] <elmo>    * Split the following libraries out from xlibs-static-dev/xlibs-static-pic
[05:05] <elmo>      into their own libfooX/libfooX-dbg/libfoo-dev packages:
[05:05] <elmo> daniels: why?
[05:08] <daniels> elmo: some of them weren't meant to be static in the first place (it was just easier that way) e.g. libxfixes/libxdamage/libxcomposite, et al
[05:08] <daniels> elmo: and some of it was to ease the transition to the modular tree, where everything is modular and built shared
[05:08] <elmo> ok, as long as they're going to be shared eventually, and/or separate source packages
[05:08] <daniels> there was just no point having all that stuff static when its API hadn't actually changed in years
[05:08] <daniels> elmo: um, they *are* shared now
[05:09] <daniels> elmo: hence libfooX ;)
[05:09] <daniels> elmo: and they will all eventually be separate source packages, yah
[05:09] <elmo> oh, ok - that wasn't obvious (to me) from the changelog entry
[05:09] <daniels> sorry
[05:09] <elmo> no need to apologise, my assumption
[05:10] <daniels> i blame fabio, he's sort of radiating itaglish at me ;)
[05:10] <elmo> anyway, it's building now - I had to force rman through to main first, thanks to Lamont's new enforcement of buildd component-segregation
[05:11] <mdz> is there no CC meeting today?
[05:11] <daniels> mdz: good morning.  do you moderate u-announce?
[05:11] <daniels> elmo: cheers dude
[05:11] <mdz> daniels: I think jdub does, but I can. why?
[05:12] <daniels> mdz: xorg announcement in the moderation queue
[05:14] <mdz> mako: community council meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[05:16] <tseng> mmm, xorg
[05:17] <Kamion> elmo: thanks, turns out current docbook-dsssl cleverly set %html-ext% back to ".htm"
[05:17] <tseng> i cant wait for dynamicclocks
[05:18] <tseng> save a little power.
[05:18] <daniels> tseng: give it a couple of hours
[05:18] <tseng> daniels: cant wait i say!
[05:21] <thom> well, that was the least fun i've had in a long time
[05:21] <daniels> thom: whahappened?
[05:24] <thom> carrying an alpha about a quarter k
[05:25] <thom> in heavy rain
[05:26] <daniels> good god
[05:28] <mdz> Keybuk: /join #ubuntu-meeting please, need tech board representation in the CC meeting
[05:30] <mdz> daniels: does xorg need to go to -announce, rather than -users/-devel?
[05:31] <fabbione> mdz: yes
[05:31] <fabbione> we need to reach as many people as possible
[05:31] <daniels> mdz: i would much much much rather it did
[05:31] <fabbione> specially regarding the problem section and how to upgrade
[05:31] <daniels> mdz: especially bearing in mind that, after 'htf do I be root', it's the most frequently asked question, empirically
[05:34] <mdz> -announce targets many people who don't even use ubuntu yet
[05:34] <mdz> agreed on the basis of the fact that so many people seem to want it :-)
[05:35] <mdz> (even though they don't seem to know why)
[05:35] <mdz> just approved it
[05:37] <daniels> thanks very much
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: i fully agree that they don't know why :-)
[05:38] <Mitario> to get that cool eye-candy ;)
[05:39] <fabbione> that is unstable and slow?
[05:39] <Mitario> people don't seem to mind, as long as it looks good
[05:40] <sjoerd> Mitario: well, i don't like being thrown out of X when starting an aterm :)
[05:40] <Mitario> people who only want it to look good don't start aterms :p
[05:40] <Mitario> aren't expected* ;)
[05:48] <daniels> an entertaining read: http://diswww.mit.edu/bloom-picayune/crypto/14238
[05:53] <daniels> From: "Yeomans, Andrew" <Andrew.Yeomans@DRKW.com>                                                                               
[05:53] <daniels> To: Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@canonical.com>                                                                                   
[05:53] <daniels> Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Announcing X.Org packages for Hoary                                                          
[05:53] <daniels> mdz: please nomail him on the lists
[06:10] <lupus_> is it possible to xorg yet?
[06:13] <daniels> lupus_: not in the archive yet
[06:13] <daniels> amd64 is in the archive, but arch:i386 and arch:all packages are missing, so you can't do a full upgrade.  but i386 just recently finished successfully ...
[06:15] <lupus_> hehe
[06:15] <lupus_> I'm readdy to test it :p;
[06:15] <fabbione> http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/6.8.1-0ubuntu1/xorg_6.8.1-0ubuntu1_20041109-1603-i386-successful
[06:15] <fabbione> uhuhu
[06:15] <fabbione> missing powerpc
[06:15] <lupus_> ready
[06:19] <lupus_> nvidia has upgraded there drivers btw
[06:19] <lupus_> they now should work with kernel 2.6.9
[06:20] <daniels> (arch:i386 and arch:all debs are up)
[06:21] <tseng> gaimin is in also it looks like
[06:21] <fabbione> lupus_: there is an open bug already
[06:21] <fabbione> it will be done sometime during next week
[06:22] <lupus_> whill it have the inotify patch then?
[06:22] <lupus_> so gamin and beagle can be tested 
[06:22] <tseng> there is none in the kernel yet, no
[06:22] <fabbione> lupus_: i am talking about nvidia drivers
[06:23] <tseng> beagle needs alot more than inotify.. not hoary material i think
[06:24] <lupus_> it will depend on if you guys include mono or not :)
[06:38] <daniels> i386, amd64, powerpc, all debs in the archive
[06:38] <daniels> have at it, guys
[06:40] <tseng> apt is holding the server back, but i installed it anyway.. worksforme
[06:40] <daniels> you need to dist-upgrade rather than upgrade
[06:41] <tseng> i did dist-upgrade
[06:41] <Kamion> elmo: what's needed to get the "Task: ubuntu-desktop" line off libfam0c102?
[06:41] <Kamion> elmo: I thought it would disappear automatically once all the dependencies on it went away
[06:41] <tseng> xbase-clients is waiting on libxkb
[06:41] <tseng> i dont see what was wrong with -server
[06:42] <pitti> sjoerd: I just sent the plugdev mail to d-devel. Finally...
[06:42] <Mitario> hmm, ok running xorg on x86 here :)
[06:42] <elmo> Kamion: cron.sync, which is what runs germinate, only runs daily 
[06:42] <Kamion> ah
[06:43] <elmo> I'll force it through now
[06:43] <Kamion> can I bribe you to run that manually? this should be the last piece for working CDs
[06:43] <Kamion> aha, thanks
[06:45] <daniels> mdz: thinko in the announce, the recipe for enabling Composite is one letter off.  worth sending a follow-up, or nay?
[06:45] <sjoerd> pitti: woohoo
[06:45] <elmo> daniels/fabbione: do any of the NEW packages in xorg need to stay in main?
[06:45] <pitti> sjoerd: it got a bit lengthy, but I wanted to explain it properly
[06:46] <mdz> daniels: to -users or -devel if you think it's appropriate, not to -announce
[06:46] <mdz> -announce needs to stay as low-noise as possible
[06:46] <mdz> next time around, maybe include a URL to a wiki page, rather than inlining instructions
[06:46] <daniels> mdz: yesh, sure
[06:46] <daniels> elmo: hm?
[06:46] <daniels> mdz: ok, sorry
[06:47] <elmo> daniels: my archive vs. seed sync script wants to demote most/all of them to universe
[06:48] <mdz> elmo: how many?  can you paste a list?
[06:48] <daniels> elmo: bah, cracktastic.  demote libFS to universe but the rest should stay in main pls.
[06:48] <daniels> elmo: (recompiles will pick up dependencies on all of them except libfs6, really; libxau6 is depended on by some package called libx11-6 and xserver-xorg, f.e.)
[06:48] <daniels> elmo: actually, just wait
[06:49] <daniels> elmo: apparently libfs is used by other stuff
[06:49] <fabbione> elmo: please keep all in main
[06:49] <elmo> libdmx1-dbg, libfs-dev, libfs6-dbg, libxau-dev, libxau6-dbg, libxaw8-dbg, libxaw8-dev, libxcomposite-dev, libxcomposite1, libxcomposite1-dbg, libxdamage-dev, libxdamage1, libxdamage1-dbg, libxdmcp-dev, libxdmcp6-dbg, libxevie-dev, libxevie1, libxevie1-dbg, libxfixes-dev, libxfixes3, libxfixes3-dbg, libxinerama-dev, libxinerama1-dbg, libxkbfile-dev, libxkbfile1-dbg, libxkbui-dev, libxkbui1-dbg, libxres-dev, libxres1, libxres1-dbg, libxss-dev, libxss1-dbg
[06:49] <elmo> , libxvmc-dev, libxvmc1, libxvmc1-dbg, libxxf86dga-dev, libxxf86dga1-dbg, libxxf86misc-dev, libxxf86misc1-dbg, libxxf86rush-dev, libxxf86rush1, libxxf86rush1-dbg, libxxf86vm-dev, libxxf86vm1-dbg, xdmx, xfree86-common, xserver-xfree86, xserver-xorg-dbg 
[06:49] <daniels> elmo: but since they were static, this sort of crap won't start showing up until we see things start recompiling against the dynamic versions
[06:49] <elmo> mdz: ^--
[06:49] <fabbione> we will dig into what is really needed tomorrow
[06:49] <fabbione> ok?
[06:49] <daniels> mdz: (there are some new libraries but almost all of them were originally static-only, and now have dynamic libraries also -- 1989 was summoning xlibs-static-dev)
[06:51] <mdz> the -dev and -dbg stuff should get added to the supoprted seed
[06:52] <daniels> yes
[06:53] <sjoerd> pitti: guess that explains it nicely, let the flames begin :)
[06:53] <pitti> sjoerd: I hope that Marco d'Itri supports it; we need udev support to do it properly
[06:54] <sjoerd> pitti: is it a big problem tha he doesn't ?
[06:54] <sjoerd> pitti: the only difference is that programs running in the plugdev group can't access drives directly right ?
[06:56] <pitti> sjoerd: well, not quite
[06:56] <pitti> sjoerd: hal would not be able to detect anything on the drives, too
[06:56] <pitti> sjoerd: I think it is required for media checking
[06:56] <pitti> sjoerd: e. g. for card readers
[06:56] <sjoerd> oh, right
[06:57] <sjoerd> still not sure about giving normal users direct access too, but let's see what others think
[06:58] <sjoerd> hal could use a major overhaul anyway, splitting the parts that touch the disk out would be nice for one thing
[06:58] <seb128> thom: are you working on the oo.o 1.1.3 merge ?
[06:58] <elmo> mdz: qt b-d's firebird - bug?
[06:59] <elmo> (err, over-abbreviated that.. as in, should I file one...)
[06:59] <mdz> elmo: ugh, yes
[07:00] <sjoerd> pitti: btw the pmount code looks nice, i can only nitpick :)
[07:00] <pitti> sjoerd: nitpicking appreciated :-)
[07:01] <sjoerd> pitti: in a few days, when i'm finished reading it :)
[07:02] <pitti> sjoerd: I'm looking forward to any improvements :-)
[07:02] <pitti> sjoerd: I tried my best to write safe and robust code; it got a bit lengthy, but that's the price if you want to program safely in insane^WC
[07:02] <thom> seb128: i'm on holiday dude, i might look if i have time tomorrow
[07:03] <daniels> thom: ps: firefox 1.0 is out!!
[07:03] <thom> daniels: ... thanks
[07:04] <thom> when Mithrandir uploads libc6 i'll do an upload
[07:04] <seb128> thom: oh, don't worry. I just have a bug about the gnomevfs support which is fixed in 1.1.3, and I was wondering if you are the right guy to reassign i
[07:04] <seb128> s/i/it/
[07:04] <sjoerd> pitti: oh, if you could try not to mix up spaces and tabs, then it would be nice for me to read.. but you may just as well ignore this comment :)
[07:04] <daniels> thom: no worries
[07:04] <daniels> thom: oh wow, nice work
[07:04] <daniels> thom: I was just aimlessly trolling as a form of gloating over xorg ;)
[07:04] <thom> seb128: yeah, i habve the merge bug, so you might as well :-)
[07:04] <thom> seb128: actually, since xorg is dne, assign it to daniel :P
[07:04] <seb128> thom: I'm not asking for any work during your holidays :)
[07:05] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, actually I really like tabs, but I can change vim to use spaces instead
[07:05] <lupus_> now xorg is there shouldn't metacity be recompiled?
[07:05] <daniels> thom: oi! watch yerself
[07:05] <sjoerd> pitti: try to set your tabstop to 2 or 4 and you'll see what i mean :)
[07:06] <pitti> sjoerd: well, a tab is 8 spaces, and has ever been...
[07:09] <sjoerd> pitti: that's a valid opinion, but there are others 
[07:09] <lupus_> daniels, will the xorg uses the old keyboard driver?
[07:09] <pitti> sjoerd: what's the quickest way to convert tabs to spaces?
[07:09] <lupus_> xorg.conf that is
[07:10] <sjoerd> pitti: sed ?
[07:10] <pitti> sjoerd: I'd use a for loop with sed -i s/\t/        / or so
[07:10] <sjoerd> ;)
[07:11] <pitti> sjoerd: I did that
[07:11] <pitti> sjoerd: wow, the diff looks funny
[07:11] <lupus_> daniels, can't you replace  Driver          "keyboard" to Driver "kbd"
[07:11] <pitti> sjoerd: IIRC vim has something that emulates tab, but does not use them. softtabstop?
[07:11] <sjoerd> i guess
[07:12] <lupus_> on upgrade
[07:12] <sjoerd> pitti: i use set sta                 " <tab> in indent inserts sw spaces!!
[07:12] <sjoerd> ok that was a fscked paste
[07:13] <pitti> sjoerd: do you also have a correct one?
[07:13] <pitti> Hi lulu
[07:14] <daniels> Keybuk: heh, picking on thom -- you're a bastard :)
[07:14] <sjoerd> pitti: use -> set sta
[07:14] <daniels> lupus_: i don't think it will be a problem but if it is, we can replace it
[07:14] <lupus_> Keyboard is the old driver
[07:15] <daniels> yeah, but iirc there hasn't been any functionality change
[07:15] <lupus_> obsolete :)
[07:15] <daniels> has there?
[07:15] <daniels> obsolete != not working :P
[07:15] <pitti> sjoerd: committed and pushed to the mirror. Can you please verify that the mirror works? And that it looks okay now?
[07:16] <lupus_> true
[07:16] <lupus_> but if you get bugreports :)
[07:16] <sjoerd> pitti: seems to work fine
[07:17] <daniels> lupus_: yeah, we'll do a migration if strictly necessary; we already migrate xfree86 xkb -> xorg, etc
[07:17] <Keybuk> daniels: *giggle*
[07:18] <sjoerd> pitti: you're too good :) (and i want nitpick that it doesn't fit in 80 chars ;)
[07:18] <sjoerd> s/want/won't/
[07:18] <pitti> sjoerd: well, there are lines that don't fit
[07:18] <pitti> sjoerd: I don't like to break strings
[07:25] <vuntz> jdub: ping ?
[07:25] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, smarttab does not quite do the right thing. I think, it's rather expandtab
[07:26] <sjoerd> pitti: oh hmm
[07:26] <sjoerd> pitti: judging from the comments in my config file it's probably a combination
[07:27] <sjoerd> et is when your doing it manually, sta is when vim indents for you
[07:27] <pitti> sjoerd: I now use shiftwidth=4, softtabstop=4, expandtab
[07:28] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, why do people insist to redefine the tab width? Tab is unusable if that is done
[07:30] <sjoerd> pitti: i do it because i dont like 8 space indents
[07:30] <pitti> sjoerd: me neither
[07:31] <pitti> sjoerd: but this does not have much to do with each other
[07:32] <lupus_> is the xcomp* package already available?
[07:34] <daniels> no
[07:34] <daniels> won't be until later tonight
[07:34] <daniels> because i'm leaving right now for a couple of hours, been at the computer for pretty much 13h straight
[07:35] <m_tthew> daniels: thanks for the work, my upgrade went smoothly.
[07:35] <lupus_> k daniels :)
[07:37] <Keybuk> how curious
[07:37] <Keybuk> we managed to base our ghfaxviewer package on a version not on snapshot.dn
[07:39] <lupus_> there is a problem with gaim when you get an email
[07:39] <lupus_> and click ok
[07:39] <lupus_> gedit is openend
[07:39] <lupus_> instead of a browser
[07:40] <lupus_> it does not know that .html should be openend with firefox
[07:40] <lamont_r> moo
[07:41] <Keybuk> seb128_: heh, uh ... yeah
[07:41] <Keybuk> it's probably better it you resolve those kinds of bugs the other way :p
[07:41] <Keybuk> (ie. mark the old one a duplicate of the new)
[07:41] <Keybuk> otherwise you'll just get another bug filed when Debian upload a new version
[07:42] <seb128_> hey Keybuk 
[07:42] <seb128_> why ?
[07:42] <seb128_> oh ok
[07:42] <Keybuk> merge-o-matic uses the alias of the bug to avoid repeat filings
[07:43] <Keybuk> only the new bugs have those
[07:43] <Keybuk> (you could also just set the alias of the old bug to merge-gdm :p)
[07:44] <thom> i was reading the titles of my emails going "what the fuck is that crackwhore on about, acpi-support isn't *in* debian"
[07:44] <seb128_> Keybuk: ok, thanks for the explanation :)
[07:45] <Keybuk> thom: heh, I needed to test it did a real-component/UNKNOWN flip ok
[07:45] <seb128_> Keybuk: apparently it gets the alias from the dup
[07:46] <seb128_> oups, nevermind
[07:47] <seb128_> I was mis-interpreting the "Bug 3444 has already taken the alias merge-gdm. Please choose another one."
[07:47] <Keybuk> ah, d'oh
[07:47] <mdz> Keybuk: so currently-open merge-o-matic bugs are real and valid and should be paid attention to?
[07:47] <Keybuk> hmmm....
[07:47] <Keybuk> mdz: yes.
[07:48] <seb128_> Keybuk: not sure about this message ... 2 bugs can't have the same alias ?
[07:48] <Keybuk> apparently not, hmm
[07:48] <elmo> does 'Save as' work for anyone in firefox?
[07:49] <Keybuk> mdz: any that get opened or commented on now are real bugs
[07:49] <elmo> I'm getting "The link could not be saved.  The web page might have been removed or had it's name changed" or something
[07:50] <thom> elo
[07:50] <thom> elmo: works for me
[07:50] <mdz> Keybuk: so there are non-real ones which are already open?
[07:51] <Keybuk> mdz: no, there were just one or two non-real ones which I closed as NOTABUG
[07:51] <Keybuk> so any opened now, being opened now, or being commented on now are real
[07:54] <thom> jdub: new firefox industrial theme fixes the whack search box
[07:55] <Keybuk> >>> print bz.bug_id_from_alias("Ubuntu", "test-scott")
[07:55] <Keybuk> None
[07:55] <Keybuk> >>> print bz.bug_id_from_alias("Ubuntu", "test-scott", all=True)
[07:55] <Keybuk> 3412
[07:55] <Keybuk> >>> bz.clear_alias(3412)
[07:55] <Keybuk> \o/
[07:55] <Keybuk> right ... fixed that potential bug :p
[08:00] <Keybuk> if anyone has queries on the bugs, just comment on them, the reporter is set to me so I can look what it's done
[08:46] <fabbione> lamont_r: ping
[08:46] <lamont_r> yo
[08:46] <Kamion> xlibs-dev is currently installable, isn't it?
[08:47] <Kamion> I'm hoping that the britney output is just temporary
[08:47] <fabbione> lamont_r: what is keeping xorg 1ubuntu1 from being built?
[08:47] <lamont_r> fabbione: checking
[08:47] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, daniels already uploaded a fixed version
[08:47] <fabbione> but it's not built yet
[08:47] <lamont_r> fabbione: package name is xorg?
[08:47] <fabbione> and that's scary
[08:47] <fabbione> yes
[08:48] <fabbione> i am afraid of circular build-deps
[08:49] <fabbione> lamont_r: if that is the problem we might have to build 1ubuntu1 manually on a chroot that has not been upgraded
[08:49] <elmo> eh, xorg built for at least i386 and amd64
[08:49] <Kamion> fabbione: ah, ok
[08:49] <lamont_r> fabbione: give it a break..
[08:49] <elmo> I just haven't been forcing it through as fast
[08:50] <lamont_r> was signed about 15 minutes ago
[08:50] <fabbione> uh ok
[08:50] <fabbione> sorry.. the buildd pages weren't updated
[08:50] <fabbione> sorry guys
[08:50] <lamont_r> fabbione: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/...
[08:50] <fabbione> my really really bad
[08:50] <fabbione> i was looking in the old dir :(
[08:51] <fabbione> elmo, lamont_r: sorry
[08:51] <lamont_r> fabbione: and http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary.all.i386
[08:51] <fabbione> Kamion: everything should be alright as soon as powerpc finishes to build
[08:51] <elmo> fabbione: it's cool dude, chill out :)
[08:51] <Kamion> ok, I'll roll a CD then if stuff is installable
[08:51] <fabbione> Kamion: only on i386 and amd64
[08:52] <fabbione> ppc needs 1ubuntu1 
[08:52] <fabbione> ok i am off to relax
[08:52] <fabbione> thanks guys :-)
[08:54] <mdz> fabbione: thanks and enjoy :-)
[08:54] <mdz> fabbione: the sharks are feeding
[08:55] <mdz> soon there will be the sound of thousands of people simultaneously saying "oh" and realizing that they can't tell the difference from outside
[08:56] <lamont_r> evo and gpg are happily together, yes?
[08:58] <thom> mdz: heh, yep
[08:59] <mdz> thom: just wait until the requests for firefox 1.0 start rolling in
[08:59] <mdz> if they haven't aready; I'm not yet at the bottom of my ubuntu-bugs mailbox
[08:59] <fabbione> mdz: eheheh
[09:00] <thom> there's a thread on -users already
[09:00] <fabbione> i am just a bit overexcited to see 5 weeks of very hard work out
[09:00] <thom> i've not seen a bug report yet
[09:00] <fabbione> neither did I 
[09:00] <fabbione> but it's too early
[09:01] <thom> fabbione: i mean requesting firefox 1.0
[09:01] <fabbione> ahhh
[09:01] <fabbione> sorry
[09:01] <fabbione> they bitched today on irc :-)
[09:01] <fabbione> about firefox
[09:12] <Mitario> hmm, what is the policy to upload something to dist-security?
[09:12] <Mitario> warty-security or hoary-security thatis
[09:19] <mdz> Mitario: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SecurityUpdateProcedures/view?searchterm=security
[09:23] <Mitario> ok ty
[09:23] <Mitario> damn, my procedure won't work then :)
[09:24] <Mitario> is there a possible way to fetch the 'current stable' of ubuntu somewhere? (release name)
[09:24] <Mitario> so the current upstream stable, not the version a user has installed locally
[09:24] <mjg59> daniels: Any idea where int10 e6 comes from?
[09:26] <mdz> Mitario: not sure what you mean
[09:27] <cenerentola> ciao a tutti
[09:27] <Mitario> mdz, well, in the upgrade apps i'm writing with michael, it would be a really cool feature if the app could automatically detect if there is a distribution upgrade available (for example if hoary is released as the new stable), the upgrade app can then show a dialog like 'Would you like me to modify your software sources and upgrade to Hoary?)
[09:27] <cenerentola> is jdub with us at the moment?
[09:28] <mdz> Mitario: ok, I see
[09:28] <mdz> Mitario: seems like we require a meta-meta-index :-)
[09:28] <Mitario> so I first tought just update the upgrade-app package with a metafile which says hoary is the new upstream dist, but because of the security upload policy that won't be possible
[09:28] <Mitario> cause the update of the metafile is not really a security 'bug'
[09:29] <cenerentola> mitario: id like to ask you a question... is warty freezed?
[09:29] <Mitario> cenerentola, yes it is :) afaik
[09:30] <Mitario> mdz, or we could have some internet location with a metafile which lists the current distribution where I could have a peek with the app internals :)
[09:30] <cenerentola> is it bullet proof... or you have just forgot that it exists
[09:30] <Mitario> i'm pretty sure warty is in freeze :) cause it has been released
[09:31] <cenerentola> Mitario: why dont you modify apt
[09:31] <cenerentola> so noone is working on its security issues?
[09:32] <cenerentola> mitario: i think it will be easier to let apt [a pluggable script]  to do the job or not?
[09:32] <Mitario> oh, wait, i see what you're talking about now
[09:33] <Mitario> yes, the upgrade apps work together with apt
[09:33] <cenerentola> i know that
[09:33] <cenerentola> well i really seem stupid sometimes.. but im not..
[09:33] <Mitario> well, elaborate your ideas please :)
[09:33] <cenerentola> ...:;)
[09:33] <Kamion> cenerentola: frozen except for security
[09:33] <cenerentola> kamion: thx...
[09:34] <Kamion> cenerentola: obviously we couldn't release a distribution and then ignore its security issues
[09:34] <cenerentola> cause i was thinking of unistalling ubuntu...
[09:34] <cenerentola> kamion: debian-way... i love it
[09:35] <cenerentola> mitario: i havent ever seen apt-code..
[09:35] <cenerentola> but i think that a scripting language will do it nicely... since my idea its not definitive...
[09:36] <cenerentola> my desk-mate at the uni is mad for plug-ins...
[09:36] <cenerentola> so why dont extend apt... apt-get with a metafile checker...
[09:37] <cenerentola> arghhh... found it...
[09:37] <cenerentola> why not glueing [is it right?]  apt-get with mmm ive used a program that check the best apt sources
[09:38] <cenerentola> i cant remember its name, but we.. you could merge that code, its already done
[09:38] <mdz> cenerentola: warty is not only frozen, it's _released_
[09:39] <mdz> Mitario: there already is a metafile for each release, the Release file
[09:39] <mdz> Mitario: but in order to see whether there was a newer release, you'd need a higher-level index (hence meta-meta)
[09:39] <Mitario> mdz, yes indeed
[09:40] <mdz> cenerentola: what are you talking about, regarding security issues?
[09:40] <cenerentola> no... newer releases..
[09:40] <cenerentola> no.. you could simply add and change a variable... like svn
[09:41] <cenerentola> and that program, whose name i forgot, did the job...
[09:41] <mdz> you keep saying 'no' in response to questions which do not have boolean answers
[09:41] <mdz> Kamion: which bit?
[09:41] <cenerentola> i mean... other than checking the metafiles, also changing the sources.list
[09:42] <cenerentola> mdz: are you talking with me?
[09:42] <mdz> apparently not :-)
[09:42] <cenerentola> where are you from?
 cenerentola: what are you talking about, regarding security issues?
[09:43] <cenerentola> ... mmm sorry i misunderstood...
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: everything from ubuntu-desktop down really
[09:43] <cenerentola> mdz: nothing in particular... i was just wondering if warty had been forgotten
[09:44] <mdz> cenerentola: why would you think that?
[09:44] <Kamion> cenerentola: please do us the favour of not assuming that we're criminally negligent :-)
 mdz, well, in the upgrade apps i'm writing with michael, it would be a really cool feature if the app could automatically detect if there is a distribution upgrade available (for example if hoary is released as the new stable), the upgrade app can then show a dialog like 'Would you like me to modify your software sources and upgrade to Hoary?)
[09:44] <cenerentola> kamion: never say no...
[09:44] <mdz> cenerentola: so because Mitario is writing an application to assist with upgrades, you infer that warty is neglected?
[09:45] <cenerentola> mdz: sorry i was joking...
[09:46] <cenerentola> mdz: well im used to the debian-way where you have 3 kind of package..
[09:46] <mdz> Kamion: puzzling
[09:46] <cenerentola> mitario was talking about 2 kind...
[09:46] <mdz> Kamion: does that still happen if you run it on the current archive?
[09:46] <cenerentola> mitario: what about the apt thing... is it crap?
[09:46] <Mitario> apt rocks
[09:46] <Kamion> mdz: can't say easily
[09:47] <cenerentola> mitario: no what a said, is it crap?
[09:47] <Mitario> umm, not it isn't
[09:47] <Mitario> no*
[09:47] <Kamion> mdz: that's fairly current data though
[09:47] <cenerentola> mdz: btw, will you host me in your bathroom in mataro? bcause lulu wont...
[09:47] <mdz> Kamion: it seems very confused
[09:47] <mdz> Kamion: evolution doesn't even build evolution1.5 anymore
[09:48] <mdz> cenerentola: I can't fault her for that
[09:49] <Kamion> mdz: but it's still in the archive
[09:49] <cenerentola> well can i open this discussion... i think its unfair... mark can afford the presence of the ubuntu's community represantives[1 person per nation] 
[09:50] <Kamion> mdz: in general the assumption that britney is wrong can be eliminated by Occam's Razor :-)
[09:50] <mdz> Kamion: is that normal?
[09:50] <mdz> for a binary to remain in the Packages file after its source disappears from Sources?
[09:51] <cenerentola> ... because id love to come.. but my family cant afford it
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz: they're only removed semi-automatically
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz: i.e. elmo runs rene every so often and does roughly what it tells him to do
[09:52] <Kamion> at least that's how it works for Debian
[09:52] <mdz> fascinating
[09:56] <cenerentola> so whos gonna host me?
[09:57] <daniels> mjg59: e6? no, sorry
[09:58] <mdz> cenerentola: an email will go out soon regarding conference sponsorship, you can watch for it for more information
[09:58] <cenerentola> im the italian community administrator.. you should consider me as your friend
[09:59] <daniels> cenerentola: dude, chill
[10:00] <cenerentola> martini?
[10:00] <mjg59> daniels: Looking more closely - the routine is called xf86ExtendedInitInt10_E6 but actually calles IntE6
[10:00] <mjg59> Which seems to somehow result in a load of other interrupts being called
[10:01] <daniels> mjg59: i profess ignorance by choice
[10:01] <daniels> mjg59: vbe isn't really my forte; all I know is DDC and a little too much about EDID, sorry
[10:02] <mjg59> Heh
[10:02] <mjg59> I'd rather switch this code to be using vm86 for simplicity of testing, but it's not keen on that
[10:03] <daniels> amd64 has no vm86, though
[10:04] <daniels> xfree86/xorg uses x86emu for hysterical raisins, but supporting amd64 appears to be a neat side effect ;)
[10:04] <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, I was going to worry about that later :)
[10:06] <Mitario> yeah, daniels your work rocks! xcompmgr is damn slow, but it rocks and is really good looking :p
[10:06] <Mitario> daniels, thank you and your mate for all the hard work you have done :)
[10:07] <daniels> heh, thanks :) i'm sure fabbione will appreciate the compliment also
[10:08] <Mitario> fabbione, many thanks!
[10:08] <Mitario> fabbione, same I said to daniel :)
[10:10] <cenerentola> good job...
[10:10] <cenerentola> great job
[10:11] <Kamion> fabbione,daniels: can one of you update the hoary seeds for xorg, please?
[10:11] <daniels> Kamion: on the wiki, or in a package somewhere?
[10:11] <Kamion> xfree86-driver-synaptics is still mentioned in desktop and xserver-xfree86-dbg is in supported
[10:11] <Kamion> in tla
[10:11] <cenerentola> is it safe to upgrade ?
[10:12] <daniels> Kamion: which archive do I need to pull?
[10:12] <Kamion> tla register-archive sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:12] <daniels> cheers
[10:12] <Kamion> tla get ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0
[10:12] <daniels> s/tla/baz/ ;)
[10:12] <Kamion> or that :)
[10:12] <daniels> Kamion: do I need to list stuff that should be there implicitly?
[10:13] <Kamion> implicitly?
[10:13] <daniels> e.g. xbase-clients now deps libxkbfile1/libxkbui1, do I need to add both of those, or does that just happen automagically?
[10:13] <Kamion> oh no, germinate takes care of dependencies
[10:13] <daniels> ah, phat
[10:13] <Kamion> all you should need to do is s/xfree86/xorg/g
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: can you update SeedManagement with those instructions?
[10:14] <Kamion> mdz: sure
[10:14] <mjg59> Ah, I see how this works now
[10:16] <daniels> Kamion: i suppose I should update supported seed with all the new xorg packages?
[10:16] <mdz> mjg59: that kind of talk makes me worry
[10:16] <Kamion> daniels: what sort of thing?
[10:16] <mdz> Kamion: -dev, -dbg
[10:16] <Kamion> check with mdz, I guess
[10:16] <Kamion> ah, that sounds ok
[10:16] <mdz> -dev and -dbg for anything which is already supported is OK
[10:17] <mdz> and in fact would be nice to automate someday
[10:17] <daniels> a lot of stuff in xlibs-static-dev is now built shared also; as well as that, there's new fixes/damage/composite libs, plus xevie (useful with composite) and dmx (distributed multihead x -- VERY VERY cool)
[10:18] <Mitario> going to bed
[10:18] <Mitario> nn all
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: done
[10:19] <mdz> Kamion: seedmanagement? thanks
[10:19] <Kamion> yep
[10:19] <mdz> for a moment I wondered if you suddenly got the urge to hack on germinate :-)
[10:19] <Kamion> not today :-)
[10:20] <Kamion> I should get round to setting up that thing to mail seed changes to hoary-changes
[10:23] <cenerentola> mdz: we were talking about packages, so if i want to install xorg or new packages, should i change the repository in sources.list to hoary's?
[10:25] <cenerentola> .
[10:26] <daniels> Kamion: seeds--hoary--0--patch-7 committed, please let me know if I've tanked anything
[10:28] <elmo>    o grepmap
[10:28] <elmo>    o update-manager
[10:28] <elmo>    o upgrade-notifier
[10:28] <Kamion> daniels: looks ok to me
[10:28] <elmo> can the appopriate person add them too , pls?
[10:29] <elmo> mdz: btw, I assume you still hate wwwconfig-common?
[10:30] <mdz> elmo: if thom and fabbione hate it, I hate it too
[10:31] <Kamion> daniels: seems ok
[10:31] <elmo> WFM, new bug on backuppc coming up
[10:31] <mdz> elmo: grepmap should get some wider testing before being added to base
[10:31] <mdz> I think likewise for update-manager and upgrade-notifier wrt desktop
[10:31] <mdz> I suppose we can add them all to supported for now
[10:32] <Kamion> daniels: I turned off signature verification on the update cron job, though, 'cos I realised I probably didn't have your key in my keyring there
[10:32] <Kamion> I guess I'll get bitchmail about that
[10:32] <daniels> Kamion: 9f9f324a, from subkeys.pgp.net
[10:32] <Kamion> daniels: oh yeah, I know how to get it, point is the cron job doesn't
[10:34] <elmo> mdz: that'd be nice - with the new buildd facisim, it's more important I fix seed syncage quickly and having less false positives would help
[10:34] <mdz> GAH
[10:34] <elmo> mdz: oh, and while you're there, you could drop 2.4 support :)
[10:34] <mdz> Kamion: I can't update from the seeds archive anymore?
[10:34] <mdz> ********************************
[10:34] <mdz> SIGNATURE DEMANDED FOR ARCHIVE
[10:34] <mdz>   ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:34] <mdz> BUT NO RULE PROVIDED
[10:35] <mdz> "DEMANDED"
[10:35] <Keybuk> heh
[10:35] <mdz> elmo: I have changes in my working directory, once someone tells me how to beat tla into submission i can do that too
[10:36] <daniels> mdz: echo gpg --clearsign > ~/.arch-params/\=signing/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:37] <Kamion> mdz: it's always been a signed archive
[10:38] <lupus_> what was wrong with xorg that there are new packages :)
[10:38] <daniels> lupus_: minor upgrade errors that we haven't caught in our testing
[10:38] <Kamion> elmo: buildd fascism?
[10:38] <elmo> Kamion: component segregation - main can now only be built with packages from main etc.
[10:38] <Kamion> aha
[10:39] <mdz> Keybuk: do you have your tla-to-human phrasebook handy?}
[10:39] <mdz> arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
[10:39] <mdz> that's like "permission denied" or something, right?
[10:39] <Keybuk> yup, pretty much
[10:39] <Keybuk> it also could mean you need to do "tla update"
[10:40] <Kamion> drwxrwsr-x    3 daniels  warthogs     4096 Nov  9 21:25 ++revision-lock-held--patch-7--matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--1a5de7a0671f3
[10:40] <daniels> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for /usr/X11R6/lib/libXfixes.so.3 (libXfixes.so.3)
[10:40] <daniels> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared library libXfixes (soname 3, path /usr/X11R6/lib/libXfixes.so.3, dependency field Depends)
[10:40] <Kamion> tla lock-revision -b?
[10:40] <Keybuk> ah, tla lock-rvision -b
[10:40] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libxfixes3.shlibs 
[10:40] <daniels> libXfixes 3 libxfixes3
[10:40] <mdz> Keybuk: ah, so it's "you tried to commit, but I blew up and didn't let you, and left a lock behind"?
[10:40] <Keybuk> pretty much, yeah
[10:40] <Keybuk> it likes doing that
[10:41] <mdz> what's the arg to lock-revision that I need?
[10:41] <Keybuk> -b
[10:41] <Keybuk> (break)
[10:41] <daniels> Keybuk: ideas on the shlibs bong?
[10:41] <mdz> Keybuk: usage: tla lock-revision [options]  revision
[10:41] <Keybuk> mdz: tla lock-revision -v $(tla tree-version)
[10:42] <mdz> lock-revision: invalid revision name (ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0)
[10:42] <elmo> damn, tla's so intuitive
[10:42] <Keybuk> uh, stick a --patch-7 on that :p
[10:42] <daniels> and you want -b, not -v
[10:42] <mdz> tried that
[10:42] <mdz> lock-revision: revision not locked -- ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-7
[10:42] <mdz> is that tla-speak for "I did what you told me"?
[10:42] <daniels> no
[10:42] <Keybuk> then do "-u"
[10:43] <Keybuk> rather than "-b"
[10:43] <Kamion> we love tla really
[10:43] <mdz> lock-revision: error unlocking revision ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-7 -- lock not held
[10:43] <Keybuk> bleh
[10:43] <Keybuk> try it without either :p
[10:43] <elmo> the TLA  game - keep banging your head until tla doesn't hurt
[10:43] <daniels> mdz: so what happens now if you try to commit?
[10:43] <Kamion> failing that, go into the archive and nuke the lock ...
[10:43] <mdz> arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
[10:43] <mdz> still
[10:43] <Keybuk> *snicker*
[10:44] <mdz> Kamion: help? :-)
[10:44] <Keybuk> mkdir -p patch--7/++revision-lock/+contents
[10:44] <mdz> Keybuk: you must be shitting me
[10:44] <Keybuk> rm -rf ++revision-lock-held*
[10:44] <Kamion> mdz: try now
[10:44] <Keybuk> mdz: I often get an image of 'tla' as a kind of Nelson figure
[10:44] <Keybuk> going "ha-hah" at you when you try and do something sensible
[10:44] <Keybuk> ;-(
[10:45] <daniels> Keybuk: so, er, dpkg and shlibs
[10:45] <mdz> what's the difference between ~/.arch-params/signing and .../=signing?
[10:45] <daniels> Keybuk: *harass* *harass*
[10:45] <daniels> mdz: whatever tla said is right, and whatever I said is wrong
[10:45] <daniels> mdz: that aside, not much
[10:46] <Keybuk> mdz: =signing works, signing doesn't
[10:46] <Keybuk> "signing" clearly isn't a tla config file, you can type it without performing finger-yoga
[10:46] <Kamion> uh?
[10:46] <Kamion> I have ~/.arch-params/signing/
[10:47] <Kamion> and it works
[10:47] <Keybuk> ugh
[10:47] <Keybuk> Kamion is right
[10:47] <Keybuk> it's =ids and =locations, but "signing"
[10:47] <mdz> ok, I'm still broken
[10:47] <Keybuk> .arch-params/signing/=default
[10:47] <mdz> arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
[10:47] <mdz>     tree: /home/mdz/data/src/canonical/seeds/hoary
[10:47] <mdz>     revision: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8
[10:47] <daniels> Keybuk: yay! i was right
[10:47] <mdz> and no locks in sight
[10:47] <daniels> mdz: so when you do tla lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8, it claims it isn't locked?
[10:47] <Keybuk> mdz:  do you have permission to write to the lock?
[10:47] <mdz> daniels: you win the tla russian roulette prize
[10:48] <daniels> mdz: if I die, #ubuntu will be bitching about xcompmgr packages forever ;)
[10:48] <Kamion> patch-7/++revision-lock/+contents is missing
[10:48] <mdz> drwxrwsr-x   10 cjwatson warthogs     4096 Nov  9 21:46 /home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--hoary/seeds--hoary--0
[10:48] <mdz> mdz@chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--hoary/seeds--hoary--0 $ groups
[10:48] <mdz> warthogs cdimage security_team porting_team
[10:48] <Keybuk> it's not locked
[10:48] <daniels> mdz: try committing now
[10:48] <Keybuk> Kamion: beat you!
[10:48] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% baz lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8
[10:48] <daniels> lock-revision: unkown lock state for ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8
[10:48] <daniels>    (lock was in transition -- consider retrying)
[10:48] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xapps/xcompmgr/xcompmgr-1.1.1+cvs.20041109% baz lock-revision -b ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8
[10:48] <daniels> lock-revision: revision not locked -- ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0--patch-8
[10:49] <mdz> is this bug in bugzilla already?
[10:49] <mdz> or do I get the pleasure?
[10:49] <Keybuk> mdz: rant away
[10:49] <daniels> mdz: 'ui is utter crap'?
[10:49] <mdz> leaving the lock behind
[10:49] <daniels> Keybuk: speaking of bugs ... dpkg-shlibdeps!
[10:50] <mdz> I still can't commit
[10:50] <Keybuk> daniels: I'm dealing with X.org xkb bugs right now
[10:50] <daniels> Keybuk: swap you?
[10:50] <daniels> mdz: this is when you scream for jblack/lifeless
[10:50] <mdz> same error
[10:50] <Kamion> let me try a test commit here
[10:51] <mdz> lifeless is asleep, trying jblack
[10:52] <Kamion> well, I *had* the same error, but the mkdir -p fixed it and my commit went through
[10:52] <Kamion> mdz: can you try your commit normally, no extra funny stuff?
[10:52] <daniels> shit, getting kicked out of here in 15min
[10:52] <mdz> ok, I'm updating and retrying
[10:52] <mdz> seems to be working
[10:52] <mdz> yep, done
[10:53] <Kamion> I shouldn't've bothered making this a signed archive
[10:53] <mdz> filing bug
[10:54] <Kamion> well, britney on little with a recently-synced archive agrees
[10:54] <Kamion> now to persuade it to tell me why
[10:55] <elmo> Kamion: about what?
[10:55] <Kamion> that gnome-<lots-of-stuff> is uninstallable
[10:55] <carlos> mdz: did you saw the discussion at debian-desktop about usplash?, should any ubuntu developer participate in the thread?
[10:55] <mdz> elmo: so grepmap, upgrade-notifier and update-manager are now seeded
[10:56] <mdz> carlos: I don't think I'm on that list
[10:56] <Kamion> daniels: libxft1/libxft1-dbg are still built from Source: xfree86
[10:56] <Kamion> daniels: are they going to disappear?
[10:56] <elmo> mdz: cheers
[10:56] <carlos> mdz: they are talking about a splash solution for Debian
[10:56] <Kamion> daniels: and if so, what'll you do with xlibs-dbg?
[10:56] <carlos> and I'm sure they will be happy to participate on usplash development
[10:56] <daniels> Kamion: yes, and violently so
[10:57] <daniels> Kamion: er, whaddya mean about xlibs-dbg?
[10:57] <Kamion> still depends on libxft1-dbg
[10:57] <daniels> oh, right, ISWYM
[10:57] <daniels> this is the sound of me updating xlibs-dbg's dependencies on hoary
[10:57] <daniels> s/hoary/xorg/
[10:57] <mdz> elmo: 2.4 removed now also
[11:02] <daniels> and with that, I'm getting kicked out of the net cafe.  night all, see you in the morning.
[11:02] <elmo> heh, #280491
[11:02] <elmo> night daniels
[11:14] <mdz> Kamion: how often is your public checkout of the seeds updated?
[11:14] <mdz> Kamion: I'd like to update ubuntu-meta
[11:15] <mdz> Kamion: debootstrap needs updating as well; do you have a semi-automatic widget for that?
[11:15] <amu> nice idea, i should try os.chroot()
[11:15] <Keybuk> daniels: have it ticking nicely now \o/ ... upgrade threw away my changes to xkb because it turned the file into a symlink
[11:18] <elmo>    o mozilla-firefox-gnome-support
[11:18] <elmo>    o xdmx
[11:18] <elmo> what about those two ?
[11:18] <Kamion> mdz: you shouldn't get more than 17 minutes lag
[11:19] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I have a magic debootstrap updater
[11:20] <mdz> elmo: mozilla-firefox-gnome-support sounds like something we want in desktop, assuming it works
[11:20] <mdz> elmo: NFC what xdmx is
[11:22] <elmo> Description: Distributed Multi-head X server
[11:22] <elmo>  Xdmx is a proxy X server that uses one or more other X servers as its display
[11:22] <elmo>  devices.  It provides multi-head X functionality for displays that might be
[11:22] <Kamion> odd; britney apparently throws out capplets very early, judging from the diagnostics I can get; it doesn't even seem to bother looking at its dependencies
[11:22] <elmo> Kamion: it'll be libxklavier?
[11:22] <elmo> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:22] <elmo>   capplets: Depends: libxklavier8 but it is not installable
[11:23] <elmo> which got rene-removed recently 'cos it's NBS (supsed by libxklavier9)
[11:23] <Kamion> how come it installs fine on my box?
[11:23] <Kamion> oh, blah, right, I haven't removed obsolete packages
[11:23] <elmo> kamion: doesn't in a clean chroot for me? 
[11:24] <elmo> mdz: it's one of the new xorg things </redundant>
[11:25] <Kamion> think seb128'll mind if I just rebuild capplets?
[11:25] <Kamion> mdz: what base changes should I expect in debootstrap?
[11:25] <mdz> Kamion: -modutils
[11:25] <mdz> same as the ubuntu-meta I just uploaded
[11:26] <Kamion> elmo: thanks for that, I could have spent hours poking at britney :)
[11:27] <elmo> Kamion: doubt [he'll mind]  and np :)
[11:27] <elmo> mdz: how come ubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on ubuntu-base ?
[11:28] <mdz> elmo: intuitively it doesn't seem like it should
[11:29] <Keybuk> I suspect we should let users chose to just break one of the meta-packages, not both
[11:30] <Kamion> mdz: ironically I have to wait for ubuntu-meta, because ubuntu-base is seeded and used to depend on modutils
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: heh
[11:30] <mdz> -rw-rw----  1 mdz mdz 248 2004-11-09 22:20 /tmp/ubuntu-meta_0.7_source.upload
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: should be there fairly soon
[11:35] <Kamion> ok, control-center uploaded
[11:36] <Kamion> thom: mozilla-firefox 1.0 is apparently going into Debian tonight-ish
[11:36] <jdub> 09:17 < thaytan> daniels: nice clean upgrade :)
[11:36] <jdub> 09:23 < thaytan> no xcompmgr tho
[11:36] <jdub> ^ heh
[11:36] <cenerentola> hi see you
[11:36] <cenerentola> good night
[11:44] <m_tthew> fabbione: I caught daniels already, but missed you. awesome job with x.org, my upgrade went off without a hitch. very impressive.
[11:45] <mdz> thom: do you know anything about the gnome-support stuff?  something we want?
[11:45] <lupus_> daniels, are you daniel stone?
[11:45] <mdz> lupus_: he is, but he isn't here
[11:49] <mdz> mvo|hockey: are you back?