jdubha ha ha12:13
jdub"Well, my goodness! It seems as if we're in for an upset. Despite previous polls, it appears that the Ubuntu Nude Man has sneaked ahead of Voting Machines in the final count. It seems that, in the evilness stakes this month, moral values beat the invasion of a self-electing junta of semi-sentient tabulating machines. Ubuttnaked Guy wears the Evil crown, and not much else, and invites us all back to his pad for some Twister and a toast... to evil!"12:14
mjg59I'm close to wanting more extensive testing of PM stuff12:17
mjg59Looks like we should be able to manage support for a decent range of Thinkpads, Dells, Toshibas and Sonys12:17
jdubis there a "file stored *in* the initrd" solution for loading DSDT foo?12:18
mjg59It's too late by the time the filesystem code is running12:19
jdubboh, seriously? yeesh12:19
mjg59You need a sane ACPI table before you do any PCI setup12:19
jdubso tacking it onto the end of the initrd is the only "sane" solution12:20
jdubwhat about another file pointed to by grub?12:20
jdubkernel=blah, initrd=blah, dsdt=blah ;)12:20
mjg59Yeah, extending grub so it loaded the dsdt and passed the address to the kernel would work12:21
mjg59But you'd need to extend the linux boot protocol12:21
mjg59That's the way FreeBSD does it, BTW12:21
jdubthat'd be handy12:23
jdubi'm going to cry rebuilding my kernel all the time12:23
mjg59The dsdt-in-initrd thing is easy enough12:23
mjg59Just add a hook to mkinitrd12:23
mjg59The infrastructure is there already. When you install a deb, it builds a new initrd on the fly.12:24
jdubbut didn't you just say you couldn't do that? :)12:24
mjg59On the end of the initrd, rather12:24
jduboh right, yeah12:25
jdubbut we didn't accept that patch12:25
=== lamont_r [~lamont@c-24-6-251-226.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionhi lamont12:28
lamont_revening Kamion12:28
mjg59jdub: It's the least invasive way of doing it. Upstream won't take it because the acpi guys want people to fix their BIOSes instead.12:28
mjg59But, unsurprisingly, that's unlikely to happen much...12:28
lamont_rmjg59: first step in getting them to fix their bios is to obtain > 10% market share12:29
Kamionwe're working on that one ..12:29
mjg59lamont_r: Yeah12:29
lupus_has gnome decent dualview and tv-out support (I mean you can turn them on and put a window on them)12:29
jdublupus_: X does :)12:29
mjg59lupus_: Uh, ish12:29
mjg59It's X that's responsible for that, and Gnome can then display stuff on it12:29
mjg59But it's not easy to switch it on or off on the fly at the moment12:30
jdubmjg59: do you think it's a relatively sane solution?12:30
mjg59Oh, argh12:30
mjg59Does Hoary have the fontconfig version that fucks up if you switch on sub-pixel anti-aliasing?12:30
mjg59jdub: Of the solutions, I think it's the sanest12:31
mjg59It doesn't break anything unrelated12:31
jdubthere have been quite a few comments about font bongery12:32
mjg59The fontconfig maintainer forced the autohinter on if you're using subpixel anti-aliasing12:32
mjg59Which is crack12:32
lifelessdaniels: looking for me ?12:35
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Kamioncan some Xish person look at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/c/control-center/1:2.8.1-0ubuntu3/control-center_1:2.8.1-0ubuntu3_20041109-2312-i386-failed please?12:43
Kamionah, I appear to be missing a build-dep on libxkbfile-dev12:44
lupus_why is network-manager not yet in hoary?12:45
lupus_ic that it is in a seperate repository12:45
mjg59lupus_: Because it doesn't work12:46
lupus_hehe I wonder how long it will take for me to break my system :)12:47
mjg59netapplet works better at the moment, but is less cool in the long run12:49
mjg59Right. I need to add a couple more patches to the kernel, make it depend on initrd-tools, update acpi-support and then we're set12:49
lupus_btw when I switched to gamin12:55
lupus_fam package is still installed and running famd12:55
lupus_shouldn't the gamin package say it can't be installed together with fam 12:55
lupus_or does running both give no problems12:56
tsengthey dont exactly conflict12:57
tsengwhat should happen is something needs to depend on gamin to pull it in on dist-upgrade12:57
tsengbecause gnome gets all wacky when you switch from libfam to libgamin and gamin isnt around12:57
tsengnautilus + g-panel try to connect12:58
tsengfam will just be dropped from the meta packages and go away on new installs i presume12:58
jdubmmm, ubuntu-desktop will depend on gamin12:59
tsengsounds like a plan12:59
jdubthough fam will still be there12:59
jdubunless i make the libgamin libs conflict with fam12:59
jdubor something like that01:00
jdubwhich is roughly scary01:00
jdubKamion: ping01:00
tsenglibgamin conflicts with libfam01:00
=== Keybuk takes jdub's crack away
Keybuk"Conflicts" is not to be used for "I think this package smells" :)01:00
jdubKeybuk: thought so :)01:00
tsengthe packages do, at least. i assume its for good reason01:00
lupus_libfam is uninstalled01:00
lupus_but fam isn't01:00
jdublupus_: yes01:00
lupus_when you install gamin01:00
jdubtseng: yes, those ones do because they conflict at the file level with each other01:01
jdubKeybuk: *however*01:01
Keybukassuming people used aptitude or synaptic, fam will be automatically removed when ubuntu-desktop no longer depends on it01:01
lupus_but when people upgrade to hoary from debian or warty how do you make it uninstall fam then?01:01
jdubKeybuk: if libgamin replaces libfam, and fam doesn't work with libgamin, then surely a conflicts would be relatively sane? :)01:01
jdublupus_: thus far, we don't01:01
Keybuklupus_: it'll happen automatically because it was installed as a dependency of ubuntu-desktop, and nothing depends on it anymore01:02
tsenglibgamin + fam doesnt seem to work here01:02
jdubif you're using aptitude01:02
Keybukjdub: synaptic does it too, fwir01:02
tsengnautilus hangs waiting to connect, then fails and proceeds to act flakey01:02
tsengi imagine thats readily reproducable01:02
jdubKeybuk: so it's not a file conflict, it's a compatibility conflict01:03
Keybukjdub: no, Conflicts actually require the complete and utter removal (including postrm) of the package before the conflicting is installed01:03
Keybukwhen combined with meta-packages, it creates a small dependency hell01:03
jdubso can we make libgamin 'not like' fam in some way?01:04
Keybukthat'd probably result in some intelligent behaviour such as the removal of ubuntu-desktop and anything else depending on fam before the new packages could even be unpacked01:04
mdzKeybuk: the aptitude magic won't happen, because it was installed as a task01:05
mdznot as a dependency01:05
Keybukmdz: I thought we installed the meta-package now, and not the task?01:05
mdzKeybuk: nope01:05
Keybukoh, boo, hiss, etc.01:05
mdzthe metapackage happened way too late in the release cycle for that01:05
Kamionjdub: yes?01:06
jdubKamion: n/m01:06
Kamionbleh, that libxklavier change wasn't as simple as I thought01:07
jdubKamion: just attempting to tackle the libgamin vs. fam issue :)01:07
Kamionturns out (a) X.Org build-dep changes and (b) source-level changes for libxklavier are required01:07
amuFYI, the xorg packages works fine on a sid ( ppc ) 01:07
Keybukjdub: this is what "upgrade notes" are for :)01:07
=== Kamion hopes seb128 won't hurt him
KamionKeybuk: we so need Breaks01:08
jdubit won't actually cause any problems01:08
Keybukwe do ineed01:08
jdubbut fam and portmap are there needlessly01:08
Keybukdoogie's reading -dpkg ... maybe he'll contribute some code :p01:08
Kamionyou wish01:08
Kamionjust a shame that implementing Breaks would lightly touch nearly all of dpkg01:09
Keybukjdub: a gentler version of conflicts01:11
jdubah, which is what i'd want01:12
KeybukThe basic idea is that, roughly, Breaks is to Conflicts as Depends is to01:12
KeybukPre-Depends. Conflicts requires that the conflicted-against package01:12
Keybukisn't even unpacked when the conflictor is unpacked, while Breaks allows01:12
Keybukthe two packages to coexist on the system but (with --auto-deconfigure)01:12
Keybukdeconfigures one of them. Breaks would be appropriate in cases where01:12
KeybukConflicts: foo (<< some-version) is currently used to indicate that foo01:12
Keybukneeds to be upgraded to some-version or newer in order to work with the01:12
Keybuk(me quotes an old Colin mail :p)01:12
jdubso many thingies01:13
jdubwhat do you call those?01:13
Keybuk"relationships" :)01:13
Keybukthough I'm all for naming the field "Anally-Violates"01:14
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=== lamont2 kicks acpi
Keybukkick thom, more fun01:17
lamont2so, how do I unblank an X server?01:17
lamont2vt7 is boring - totally black,01:18
pittiNight everybody!01:18
lamont2the other vt's are more interesting...01:18
lamont2and I'd rather not restart X to fix this obvious lidbutton.sh/X interaction bug...01:18
tsengxset dpms force on do anything?01:19
=== lamont2 checks
lamont2tseng: that produces a usage message.. :-)01:20
tsengworks here..01:20
lamont2xset dpms force on does nothing01:20
lamont2per xset q: dpms is enabled, monitor is on.01:21
lamont2however, nothing shows on the Xserver vt...01:21
lamont2fabbione/daniels still awake?01:22
lamont2how very amusing... X died/restarted finally...01:23
=== lamont2 looks at the log
=== Kamion finds the diff from GNOME CVS required to make control-center work with new libxklavier
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mdzhow come the hoary-changes messages for my uploads come From: "Ubuntu Installer", while most others come from the uploader?01:29
elmothe email you used wasn't whitelisted01:30
KeybukChanged-By: Matt Zimmerman <mdz@debian.org>01:30
elmokatie@jackass:~/scratch $ grep mdz /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/katie/katie.conf 01:31
elmo     "mdz@alcor.net";01:31
Keybukinstead of Changed-By: Matt Zimmerman <mdz@canonical.com>01:31
elmo(and of course *@canonical.com is whitelisted too)01:31
mdzhmm, I wonder how that happened01:31
mdzI could have sworn I changed my $DEBEMAIL a long time ago01:32
mdzthe one thing dch *doesn't* have an option for is the maintainer name/address01:32
elmoaren't you an emacs user?01:33
mdzoh, I know what it is01:33
mdzthat was ubuntu-meta01:33
mdzwhose changelog is automagically generated by a script01:33
mdzwhich invokes dch01:33
elmowhy would any card carrying emacs user use dch vs. debian-changelog-mode?01:33
mdzmy ubuntu-changelog-widget script sets DEBEMAIL for me01:33
mdzelmo: seems a lot easier to use from python01:34
mdzI use debian-changelog-mode for interactive editing01:34
Keybukelmo: emacs takes too long to start? :)01:36
elmocard carrying emacs users always have a copy open :P01:37
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Keybukyeah, but it might be in the wrong window, or directory01:37
mdzyeah, that's like complaining that firefox takes too long to start01:37
=== Keybuk always has an emacs open somewhere
Keybukbut usually uses vi to edit things01:37
thomthey're usually wearing white coats backwards, too01:37
Keybukotherwise I'd have to find the terminal with emacs open, then remember the path to the debian/changelog I wanted to open, edit it, save it, then find the terminal I was working in before again, then build the package01:38
Keybukfar easier to just "dch" :p01:38
=== elmo disowns keybuk from the emacs club
Keybukelmo: if someone can make the X version of emacs not suck, I'll be happy01:39
Keybukbut all the time it sucks, it's emacs-nox for me01:39
jdubelmo: he wants pretty fonts, basically.01:39
=== mdz hands gnuclient to Keybuk
Keybukmdz: can't open a new window01:39
mdzKeybuk: dude, it can execute arbitrary elisp forms01:40
Keybukbecause emacs is in a terminal01:40
mdzwtf is emacs doing in a terminal? :-P01:40
Keybuk<Keybuk> elmo: if someone can make the X version of emacs not suck, I'll be happy01:40
mdzI thought you were saying it sucked because you had to play the cwd game01:40
Keybukthe X version on the left is far too wide and ugly for me to use01:43
lamont_rmdz about?01:43
mdzlamont_r: yes01:44
jdubKeybuk: can't just fix the fonts?01:44
Keybukjdub: edd once compiled the Xft version of emacs, but never got it to run -- it has had little love01:44
Keybukthe patch won't even apply now, let alone compile or run01:44
lamont_rmdz: about 820 packages from main are built for ia64 - does it make sense to drop them into w-b and the archive?  worst case elmo winds up moving the Packages files to grumpy and dropping them from hoary01:45
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thomwhy didn't they use pango/gtk for the main window when they have done so for the menus?01:45
Keybukthom: allegedly it's so custom that it's impossible01:45
Keybukso I have an emacs open to work in and use as an IDE, and when I want another editor for anything, I use vi :p01:46
=== lamont_r considers getting a "not a child rapist" button. :-)
jdubthom: new ff industrial theme does look nice01:47
thomjdub: yeah01:47
thomif i get bored of packing tomorrow i'll do a 1.0 ;-)01:48
jdubis packaging the theme still a pita?01:48
Keybukoh, what did that fix?01:48
thomKeybuk: it's fixed that the search box was utterly broken on debian/ubuntu installs01:48
jduband there were file selector problems01:48
Keybukoh right, not noticed anything with 1.0.5 but then I haven't really stressed it :p01:49
thomyeah, those too appear fixed01:49
jdubhrm, that was fixed in 1.0.5, as it happens01:49
jdubhe hasn't said anything about 1.0.6 on his blog01:49
jdub(changes, that is)01:50
Kamionremind me what I have to do when GNOME hangs at the splash screen?01:50
Kamionno icons at the bottom01:50
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamiongnome-settings-daemon is spinning01:51
jdubKamion: got libgamin and no gamin?01:51
Kamionjdub: got both01:51
Keybukjdub: pretty01:53
=== jdub kicks daniels for posting xorg announce to announce list...
jdubtakes a long time to connect to ftp stuff in nautilus01:55
Kamionok, how might I have broken gnome-settings-daemon?01:56
mdzKamion: you don't need InstallerSeed stuff in the wiki anymore, right?01:58
jdubthe only thing i can think of that's tweaked it recently would be libgamin/gamin01:58
mdzI turned the other Seed pages into lists of proposals01:58
mdzbut since InstallerSeed won't get proposals, I think it's obsoleted by the arch archive01:58
Kamionmdz: nope01:59
Kamionjdub: trying now after installing libxxf86misc-dev01:59
Kamionthe xorg stuff is conspicuously missing transitional dependencies for things that used xlibs-static-dev02:00
lamont_rmdz: at any rate, I think ia64 is ready to be in the archive, and would certainly benefit from being there.  your call.02:00
jdubKamion: hrm, was this from a futzy control-center build post-xorg?02:00
jduboh, pre-xorg...02:01
Kamionjdub: it's from the one I'm doing now to try to get it working with an xklavier that's actually in the archive02:01
Kamionjdub: I made a no-brainer upload fiddling the build-dep, and now that it's broken I feel obliged to do a proper job rather than leaving it broken02:01
mdzlamont_r: I don't have a problem with it in principle02:01
mdzany other considerations?  mirrors?02:02
elmoas long as there's not going to be an ABI change, mirrors shouldn't be a factor02:02
elmo(and there's not going to be an ABI change :)02:02
mdzelmo: was talking about ia6402:03
elmoso was I ?02:04
mdzelmo: adding a new architecture doesn't impact mirrors?02:07
mdzI assumed it meant dumping a few extra gigs on them02:07
elmooh, well, yes, there is that02:07
mdzand additional churn02:07
elmosorry, I was talking in terms of, if it didn't - for whatever reason - make hoary02:08
elmoit'll be ~7Gb impact for mirrors - plus the initial churn02:08
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mojogood morning every102:16
mojocheck out this new theme for d4x02:17
Kamionwhat is it that spawns gnome-settings-daemon?02:25
KamionI want to strace it02:26
mdzgnome-session, I'd imagine02:27
mdzit's invoked as x-session-manager via alternatives02:27
KamionI tried stracing that, though02:27
mjg59thom: Still awake?02:28
mdzI think when I was chasing this stuff, I ended up replacing gnome-settings-daemon with a wrapper script02:28
Kamionhm, probably a good plan02:28
thommjg59: barely02:28
thommjg59: what can i do you for?02:29
mjg59thom: Oh, ok - I'm working on exciting! Hot! New! acpi scripts02:29
mjg59If you'll be around in a couple of minutes you can take a look02:30
thomrock and roll02:30
m_tthewanyone else using amd64+xorg heavily?02:30
thomi'm so staying awake then02:30
thomm_tthew: i've been running it since monday...02:30
thomm_tthew: as my primary system02:31
m_tthewthom: do you seem to be losing mouse events occasionally?02:31
thomm_tthew: not that i've noticed02:31
m_tthewI'm having some transient oddness since going to xorg and I'm trying to confirm ym sanity02:31
m_tthewthom: ok, thanks02:31
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robertjwhere is the trendy place to put /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 in xorg?02:34
mdzrobertj: trendy?02:35
=== thom notes that Alpha XP1000s are not the lightest pieces of kit ever to grace a desk
robertjhehe, ;)02:36
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lupus_are there plans to integrate lm-sensor and smartd in ubuntu?02:37
lupus_so you check your systems health :)02:37
mjg59thom: http://www.kern.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/02:38
mjg59I've managed to fuck my machine royally while looking at this, so I'm going to reboot now in order to test it :)02:38
mjg59It adds scripts, but doesn't add events for all of them02:38
mdzlupus_: there was a proposed goal for Hoary to integrate SMART; see /topic02:38
lupus_and lm-sensor ? 02:39
lupus_or is their something familiar02:39
mjg59thom: Oh, and I forgot to add the rmmod button; modprobe button thing (but that ought to be obvious enough)02:39
mjg59Hang on, I'll reboot and then test it myself...02:39
thomk k02:40
lupus_if I apt-get grepmap02:45
lupus_it will just work?02:45
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mjg59thom: Heh. Couple of minor issues - give me one more moment...02:54
=== thom thinks mjg59's testing was not as successful as he hoped
Kamionlupus_: depends what you want it to do02:55
Kamionlupus_: it's not really for end-user use02:57
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thommjg59: sorry dude, i have to hit the hay now03:01
thomi'll look in the morning03:01
=== lamont_r dinners
mjg59thom: No problem - the ones on the site now should work03:04
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lupus_k I think I found a bug03:10
lupus_can someone verify03:10
lupus_with latest xorg03:10
lupus_ctrl+alt+backspace will stop X03:10
lupus_but not restart it03:10
lupus_I just get the terminal then03:11
Kamionthat's up to your display manager03:11
lupus_can someone test this03:11
Kamionif you kill X forcibly too many times, it may get bored and give up restarting it03:11
KamionI've been using ctrl-alt-backspace lots just now with Xorg, it works as normal with gdm03:11
lupus_I only did once after reboor03:11
lupus_weird then03:11
sivangis there anything I shouldn't bee douing while dist-upgrading ? Just got03:12
lupus_going to bed now 03:12
sivangit broken.03:15
sivangkdelibs-bin and kcontrol conflicts on /usr/bin/filesharesets03:15
Kamionuniverse is unsupported, as you well know :)03:15
sivangah right :)03:16
sivangkde will stay out :), in universe..03:16
mjg59So much rock03:17
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=== mjg59 finishes off ACPI scripts that automatically unload network devices and which handle sound power management
mjg59Ok. The contents of http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops should work on a wide range of machines03:45
mjg59I heartily encourage anyone with an x86 laptop to try them out03:45
mjg59There's a decent chance of working ACPI suspend to RAM, and if that doesn't work then there's a good chance of working suspend to disk03:46
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KamionI hate hangs in mallopt()03:47
KamionI especially hate them on architectures without valgrind03:47
jdubmjg59: got dsdt/initrd patches? :)03:48
mjg59jdub: Dude, it's in there03:48
mjg59Oh, shit03:49
mjg59Missed one (moderately important) ACPI patch03:49
mjg59jdub: But go ahead and try that stuff, anyway03:49
mjg59Or give me 10 minutes (or less) and I'll have a slightly better package :)03:49
=== mjg59 accidently forces an entire package rebuild
=== jdub gives mjg59 ten minutes ;)
mjg59Where has my debian directory gone?03:53
Kamiona kernel package?03:53
mjg59For reasons I do not understand, debian/rules just blew away my debian directory03:54
mjg59Including all the patches03:54
=== mjg59 cries
Kamionmjg59: what package?03:54
mjg59ACPI test kernels03:54
Kamiondo you have a fully up-to-date kernel-package?03:54
Kamionif not, upgrade and read the rant in the changelog on this very subject03:54
mjg59That is going to make life... awkward.03:55
mjg59Arse. I have headers but no source file.03:55
KamionI believe the current version contains a workaround as well as a rant03:55
mjg59On the bright side, there's relatively little work involved in recreating it03:56
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mojo^o^, X.org up, thx fabbione, nice exp here03:56
jdubmjg59: :-(03:57
mjg59jdub: Heh03:57
mjg59jdub: Just try the ones up there, anyway03:57
mjg59I'll worry about it later03:57
jdubneed all those debs?03:58
mjg59Need the initrd one installed first03:58
Kamionsegfault inside *ORBit*? how the hell did gnome-settings-daemon get there ...03:59
KamionOh. gconf. Fuck.03:59
jdubKamion: ouch.03:59
mjg59ACPI is so my bitch04:00
jdubeugenia makes baby jesus cry04:00
mjg59Except on the craptop04:00
mjg59Or some HPs04:00
Kamionthis is only electric fence's idea of a segfault, mind you04:00
mjg59And my other Thinkpad04:00
mjg59But the last of these is a driver bug04:00
Kamionthe new Firefox find widget rocks my world04:02
jdubit's way sexy04:02
mjg59jdub: You'd better be grabbing packages, boy04:04
jdubam! am!04:04
jdubmjg59: rebooting...04:15
KamionXklConfigInit() helped04:15
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jdubmjg59: so, i put it in S3 sleep04:22
jduband woke it up by hitting the power button04:22
jdub(this is in very single user mode, init=/bin/sh)04:23
jdubhow do i turn the screen on? :)04:23
mjg59Try running video_post04:23
mjg59The scripts do that automatically04:23
jdubuh oh04:23
mjg59echo -n 3 >/proc/acpi/sleep; sleep 1; /usr/sbin/video_post04:23
jdubthat did the crazy "my lcd screen is about to blow up" effect04:24
mjg59You need to do this:04:24
mjg59option VBERestore true04:24
mjg59(but with normal quotes)04:24
mjg59to /etc/X11/xorg.conf (or whatever)04:24
mjg59In the device section04:24
mjg59And then boot fully and press the sleep button04:25
jdubnote that i wasn't running X at all by then04:25
mjg59We need X to fully reinitialise the screen04:25
mjg59Though this depends on the hardware04:25
jdubalso, i now have a buttload of ide controller modules loaded04:25
jdubooh, and now i'm getting buffer i/o errors on uba04:26
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jdubmjg59: given that i wasn't in X before, should i try without the vberestore change?04:26
mjg59They're all loaded in 2.6.8, but in 2.6.8 you could unload them again04:26
mjg59jdub: Add the vberestore change - it seems to be needed on various i855 machines04:27
mjg59And remember to restart X :)04:27
jdubdoing so :)04:28
jdubsuspended correctly from X04:30
jdubthe power button woke it up and halted the machine :)04:31
jdubthe screen came on correctly in console mode though :)04:31
mjg59Oh, rock04:31
pascjdub: I get that when I resume my laptop04:31
pascso I need to unload the buttom module before I suspend04:31
mjg59jdub: Does the /etc/acpi/prepare.sh script have rmmod button at the top of it?04:31
jdubsaw that on the list04:32
jdubhold on04:32
mjg59I have a sudden feeling I may have forgotten that04:32
jdubbooting again :)04:32
mjg59Ha, no04:32
mjg59It doesn't04:32
jdubwoo :)04:32
mjg59Add that, and see whether it works04:33
jdubafter the chvt?04:33
jduboh top04:34
mjg59Yeah, right at the top04:34
mjg59Has the added advantage of reducing bouncing04:34
jdubwe have glowing power light indicating suspend04:35
mjg59So far so good04:35
jdubwe have console04:35
jdubwe have shutdown04:35
jdubi don't actually have a sleep button04:36
jdubi have a power button04:36
mjg59How are you triggering the sleep?04:36
jdubecho -n 3 ...04:36
mjg59Oh, right04:36
mjg59That's not going to work04:36
mjg59How do you not have a sleep button?04:36
mjg59It's normally Fn+one of the F keys04:37
jdubi have a suspend function button04:37
jdubi'll see if that works04:37
jdubthose keys are affected by the dsdt foo04:37
jdubsome don't work04:37
mjg59Yeah, but the spec requires (well, strongly encourages) at least one of them04:38
jdubyeah, i don't think it's doing bong all04:39
jdubcan i fake it?04:39
mjg59Just to test, can you do /etc/init.d/acpi stop04:39
mjg59And then cat /proc/acpi/event04:39
mjg59And press Fn+all of the keys04:39
=== Kamion mails seb128 about the control-center stuff, and crashes
jdubmjg59: acpid?04:40
mjg59jdub: Sorry, yes04:40
mjg59Oh, it ought to be Fn+Escape04:40
jdubbutton/sleep SLPB 00000080 0000000304:41
jdubit is04:41
mjg59Restart acpid, switch to X, hit Fn+Escape04:41
jdubhrm, i am in X :)04:42
mjg59Skip that step, then04:42
jdubnah, not happy04:42
mjg59In what way?04:43
jdubsame as before - no effect at al04:43
mjg59Oh, I see04:44
mjg59Fuck, I'm useless04:44
mjg59jdub: Can you grab http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/acpi-support_0.10_i386.deb ?04:45
pascsounds like I'm going to have to switch my laptop to ubuntu too if it has such mad laptop support =-\04:45
mjg59jdub: Install that and do Fn+Escape04:45
mjg59I managed to copy files in the wrong direction at one point...04:45
mjg59pasc: All of this will end up in Debian (eventually)04:46
jdubpasc: why the sad face? :)04:46
mjg59Probably post-Sarge, though04:46
mjg59There's too much that needs to go into the kernel to make it practical right now04:46
jdubmjg59: AHA!04:46
jdubwe have sleepy power light04:47
=== jdub presses power button to wake it up
jdubwe have flashing screen04:47
mjg59It ought to (with luck) result in xscreensaver04:47
=== jdub switches to vt1
pascjdub: well i'm already doing most of my debian stuff from within a chroot on an ubuntu desktop04:47
jdubit does indeed!04:47
jdubmjg59: so we totally need to send a key/mouse signal to xscreensaver when it wakes up ;)04:48
jdubmjg59 IS MY DADDY!04:48
mjg59jdub: Dude, that rocks04:48
pascdoes anyone know where bob2 is btw?04:48
mjg59We are going to have totally mad-phat laptop support04:48
jdubmjg59: i have this really bizarre usb spew though04:49
jdubpasc: sydney04:49
jdubmjg59: *everything* comes back up properly04:49
mjg59jdub: Yeah, there will be weird USB spew04:50
mjg59The drivers are excessively chatty04:50
jdubnew to 2.6.9?04:50
jdubi'm getting all kinds of buffer i/o errors and stuff04:50
jdubunable to read partition table04:50
jdubthere's no disk in there :)04:50
pascmjg59: do you have stuff for debian already?04:50
pascmjg59: or is this a "in the future" kind of thing?04:51
mjg59pasc: Not for Debian, yet04:51
mjg59It needs kernel patches04:51
mjg59jdub: Heh04:51
mjg59Yeah, 2.6.9 wants to tell you all about itself04:51
mjg59pasc: Post-Sarge, I'll be looking at getting all this infrastructure into Debain04:52
mjg59The problem is that it requires coordinating the kernel, initrdtools and the acpi userland tools04:52
mjg59And that's going to be pain04:52
jdubusb block device, it seems04:53
mjg59Ah, right04:53
jdubno longer sdX04:53
mjg59But if you ignore the errors, it all comes back?04:53
mjg59I've tried to be smart about unloading network drivers, which are the normal reason for breakage nowadays04:53
mjg59It's possible it needs to do the same for sound drivers, but that's going to be far, far messier04:53
jduboh, usb stuff seems to be unrelated04:54
pascmy main problems on my toshiba was the usb stuff04:54
mjg59Probably easier to fix all the sound drivers...04:54
jdubit's just reiniting the usb foo on wakeup04:54
mjg59pasc: 2.6.9 is much better for usb04:54
jdubno problems with sound04:54
pascsounds like I need to upgrade then04:54
mjg59Once we have video sorted, sound is the next big problem04:54
mjg59jdub: Heh. Except there almost certainly would be if you were playing any when you suspended.04:54
jdubooh, that sounds like fun04:54
pascmjg59: you can start working on my next problem with suspend too04:55
mjg59pasc: At this rate I'm going to have to start charging people04:55
pascwhen you knock the bottom of my laptop, sometimes the battery moves 04:55
pascand then it doesn't resume properly ;-)04:55
mjg59Fixes everything04:55
jdubthat was not appreciated04:55
mjg59jdub: Yeah. Don't Do That (at the moment, anyway)04:56
mjg59We need to get in touch with the ALSA people04:56
jdubmpg123 is now in D state :)04:56
mjg59jdub: Other thing that you can do is hack the /etc/acpi/events/lidswitch script to suspend on lid closure04:56
jdubvery tempting04:57
jdubdid you hear my surprise at unexpected functionality once i got acpi going?04:57
mjg59In the long run, we'll have support for checking whether there's an external monitor plugged in04:57
mjg59And if so, not lock the screen when you close it04:57
tsengmjg59: thatd be killer04:57
jdubthe top line of my console has funny flashing bits04:57
tsengive been fighting that here04:57
jdubafter wakeup04:57
tsengjdub: same here, but it goes away.04:58
tsengoh suspend, not lidclose lock04:58
jdubi wonder if xorg will have support for i855 external vga crap04:59
mjg59jdub: Under what circumstances?04:59
mjg59jdub: xorg has support for non-mirrored output04:59
mjg59So you can have separate content on both04:59
jdubmjg59: when hitting the suspend button, the top line on the console flickers (rows of pixels on and off), and stays that way after wakeup05:00
jdubmjg59: so does this kernel have wacky swsusp stuff in it?05:00
tsengi wonder if doing the non-mirrored output i could get a higher res on the CRT05:01
mjg59jdub: Just the console, or in X as well?05:01
mjg59jdub: It has swsusp stuff in it, yes05:01
jdubnot fussed05:01
mjg59jdub: Sorry, are there any flickering lines in X?05:02
mjg59jdub: Add a resume=/dev/hdawhatever to /boot/grub/menu.lst and do update-grub05:02
jdubno flickering lines in X05:03
jdubX is in glorious resumed technicolour05:03
bob2pasc: yo05:04
mjg59As long as you installed the initrd-tools package before the kernel, just adding the resume line should result in echo -n disk >/sys/power/state doing hot suspend to disk action05:04
jdubeven with 2.6.9, my digital sound output still has this zinging noise05:06
mjg59Now, if only I knew why the craptop and keybuk's HP didn't work...05:07
bob2beats a short, sharp bong.05:09
mjg59jdub: You're going to be the envy of your friends now, you know05:10
mjg59Working ACPI is still a thing of wonder05:10
jdubi will have to find a crowd of people to impress05:13
hornbeckwhen do we get inotify05:17
mjg59Man, I'd better get a wedding invitation after this05:18
bob2I for one welcome our new ACPI overlords05:18
mjg59jdub: We need more testers05:18
mjg59Find more testers05:18
jdubmake your repo suckable05:19
jduband ping ubuntu-devel :)05:19
mjg59Oh man05:19
mjg59I'll do that in the morning05:19
mjg59It's 04:20 here05:19
mjg59jdub: I keep subscribing to ubuntu-devel but I never here anything after I go to the confirmation link05:19
mjg59No idea why05:21
jdubwant me to sub you?05:22
mjg59Yeah, thanks05:22
jdubpreferred address?05:22
mjg59mjg59@srcf.ucam.org is good05:23
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fabbionemorning guys06:27
lamont_revening fabbione06:27
lamont_rI have a question for you fabbione06:27
lamont_rsometime after X is blanked (lidbutton.sh), it won't come back... how do I whack it enough to wake it up?06:28
fabbionelamont_r: is that on a laoptop?06:29
fabbionei am not sure what lidbutton.sh does...06:29
fabbioneis that x.org or xfree86?06:29
lamont_rxf86 - stock warty06:29
lamont_rit does this:06:30
lamont_rsu $user -c "(xscreensaver-command -throttle && xscreensaver-command -lock)"06:30
lamont_rxset dpms force off06:30
lamont_rand if I wake it up soon enough, then all is happy.  if not, then it's not so happy.06:31
fabbionedoes the laptop die completely? or only X=06:31
lamont_ronly X.06:31
lamont_rblack screen.06:31
lamont_rother vt's are happy06:31
fabbioneit would be nice to 06:31
fabbionestrace it06:31
fabbioneand see what is going on...06:31
lamont_rI tried 'xset dpms force on' and a few other things...  eventually X died.06:32
fabbioneor gdb the -dbg version06:32
lamont_rand restarted --> all well.06:32
lamont_rlikewise, ctl-alt-backspace is a known "fix" :-(06:32
fabbionehell no06:32
fabbionebut there is a lot of code that i don't know in X06:32
fabbioneit's simply too big06:32
lamont_ryeah, way big.06:32
lamont_rI figure I'll worry more after I switch over to xorg.06:33
fabbionei really really don't like this phase one on sparc06:54
fabbionelamont_r: i keep getting tons of failure on the gcc test suite06:54
fabbionebut i don't understand why06:54
fabbionethe chroot is a fresh sid06:54
fabbione(phase one)06:54
fabbioneso there is really no difference on what is building06:54
fabbioneand gcc has been imported from sid06:55
lamont_rfabbione: yeah - saw interesting failures on other architectures as well.06:57
lamont_rare you trying to build warty or hoary?06:57
fabbioneso it's basically recompiling gcc from sid in a sid chroot right now06:57
lamont_rwhich should work.06:57
lamont_ror bug doko, would be my activity.. :-)06:57
fabbionei think i know what it is06:59
fabbionei am afraid it is still trying to build 64bit binaries06:59
fabbioneand i need to change the call to dpkg-buildpackage06:59
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fabbionei had to do the same ith pbuilder06:59
=== fabbione resets the buildd and starts from scratch again
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fabbionemdz: ping07:28
fabbioneit has to be into main!07:28
lamont_rfabbione: that's an elmo overrides thing, I expect.07:41
lamont_rtrivial fix, just requires a whack.07:41
fabbionei know07:41
fabbionebut all xfree86 -> xorg upgrades are broken without that piece07:41
fabbioneit is required to migrate some config files07:41
fabbioneand to force the switch over to xorg-common07:41
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danielslifeless: I was, yeah08:04
danielsKeyserSoze: oh, neat08:04
danielslamont_r: sup08:05
dokolamont_r, fabbione: I'll start a gcc build in a current sid env to reproduce the failures ...08:11
lamont_rdoko: thanks08:12
fabbionedoko: i am trying to build again using sparc32 in front of dpkg-buildpackage08:13
fabbioneapparently the /etc/disable_64_gcc is not enough08:13
dokoyou could disable the biarch compiler. (debian/rules.defs)08:19
danielsnew from the forums: 'FGLRX sucks for ATI, why can't I get 3D?'08:26
danielsjust look in the first part of your subject!08:26
lamont_rdaniels: remind me to make you help me get taht working in spain...08:27
danielslamont_r: fglrx ... working?08:30
danielslamont_r: you'd better have some pretty incredible bribes lined up08:30
danielslamont_r: what sort of video chipset do you have?08:30
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=== daniels guffaws at #3542.
lamont_rradeon 750008:36
lamont_rthat's the home desktop though...08:36
lamont_rlaptop is ati rage mobility p/m agp 2x...08:36
lamont_rwhich I gather might be 2d?08:36
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ik5pvx_X Window System Version 6.8.1 (Ubuntu 6.8.1-1ubuntu1 20041109183716 root@terranova.warthogs.hbd.com)08:43
ik5pvx_great job!08:43
fabbioneehy ik5pvx_ !08:43
fabbionethanks :-)08:43
fabbionethere are still a bunch of bugs to fix08:44
fabbionebut tho08:44
ik5pvx_only gotcha I had, I had to manually install xserver-xorg. Is that intended for this testing phase ?08:44
fabbioneif you have ubuntu-desktop installed08:45
fabbioneeverything is smooth08:45
fabbioneif you customize your desktop you are on your own08:45
ik5pvx_oh, that's it.. I think I removed ubuntu-desktp because it asked to install stuff I don't want. It's all right then. If I can find some time, I'll later try to upgrade the other install I have (the clean install for test purposes). BBL08:48
=== lamont_r sleeps
danielslamont_r: hm, rage mobility, should get very, very basic 3d out of it08:56
danielslamont_r: i'll check it out in spain, but no fglrx needed!08:56
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=== sid77 'morning
dokofabbione: please email me the build/gcc/testsuite/*.log files 09:18
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fabbionedoko: i will if it keeps failing09:19
fabbionebut i am pretty sure it's related to the call to sparc3209:19
dokostarted a build on an ultrasparc IIi ...09:19
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fabbionedoko: cool09:20
fabbionedoko: with or without sparc32 ?09:20
dokowith sparc3209:21
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fabbionedoko: it would probably be more useful without09:21
fabbioneor both09:22
fabbionewell up to you09:22
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dokolet's wait, the testsuite will finish on Friday, then I can check without.09:26
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fabbionedoko: i am faster on my netra :-)09:30
fabbionei will test both again and let you know09:30
fabbioneif i only still had access to the e10k :-)09:30
fabbionemake -j 32 ;)09:30
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=== sid77 study time!
fabbioneseb128: hey10:18
fabbioneseb128: are you using a pure utf8 locale on hoary?10:18
fabbione(and x.org and co?)10:18
seb128fabbione: yes10:20
seb128oups, and hi fabbione ;)10:21
fabbioneseb128: please try to revert to a non-utf8 locale10:21
fabbioneand check the copy&paste again10:21
fabbionea friend of mine doesn't have that problem at all10:21
fabbionegedit <-> emacs both directions work10:21
tuo2so, what's doing?10:22
fabbioneapparently problems with copy and paste10:24
seb128fabbione: ok, no problem in fr_FR@euro10:25
danielsseb128: cool!  i say the problem is that xaw sucks, in that case10:25
seb128and I don't get these "Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib"10:25
seb128"Gdk-WARNING **: cannot set locale modifiers" 10:25
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fabbionei think utf8 code in x.org is too immature10:27
seb128anybody has a fc installation somewhere to test ?10:27
seb128they are using utf-8 for a while and X.org10:28
fabbioneseb128: i did check all x.org patches in fedora10:28
fabbionethere is nothing related to utf8 :(10:28
fabbioneis it possible that applications requires a rebuild on top of x.org?10:28
seb128I'm not sure it works on fc, but it would be nice to test10:29
seb128that would be weird ...10:29
danielswhich version of libXaw is emacs or whatever linked against?10:29
danielsbut I suspect the killer is locale not supported by Xlib10:29
seb128daniels: that's a general problem with gtk+1.2 apps, not only emacs10:29
danielsi would love a chroot install of fedora to poke around in10:29
fabbionei don't have the CD of fc to check10:29
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rburtondaniels: ping?10:34
danielsrburton: yo, pong10:34
rburtondaniels: why does Xproto explicitly define _XOPEN_SOURCE=500?10:35
rburtonit's breaking my compiles!10:35
rburton(as with that the BSD and GNU extensions get turned off)10:35
rburtondo i really have to add #define _GNU_SOURCE to everything?10:35
danielsno they don't :) you just need -D_BSD_SOURCE and -D_GNU_SOURCE also10:35
danielsum, yeah10:35
danielshold on a sec10:35
rburton_GNU_SOURCE turns on _BSD_SOURCE10:36
daniels        * xproto.pc.in:10:36
daniels        Force define of _XOPEN_SOURCE; FD_SET et al depend on fds_bits10:36
daniels        presence, which is an X/Open special and thus only guaranteed with10:36
daniels        _XOPEN_SOURCE. I'd love to do this in Xpoll.h, but <sys/select.h> has10:36
daniels        a habit of being included earlier than Xpoll.h.10:36
danielsbasically, we're shit out of luck if people manage to include <sys/select.h> before Xpoll.h, which happened a hell of a lot, as it were10:36
daniels(if you find a better solution, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease send me a patch because I hate it also)10:37
rburtonlet it break if people include stuff in the wrong order?10:37
plovs_workmdz, is there a hoary-wish page in the wiki?10:37
danielsrburton: given there's no defined order, there's no 'right' order as such ...10:37
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danielspitti: morning10:56
mvo_morning pitti 10:59
danielsjustdave: btw, what's the process for getting bz components resynced?11:00
justdavethere's a script in the warty-bugs directory on macquarie, feed it a text file with the full package list, one per line, and it'll create components for any that don't have them yet.11:01
justdaveI think it's addcomponents.pl or something like that11:02
danielsok, don't have access to macquarie, will ping mdz when he wakes up.  cheers.11:03
justdaveotherwise if there's one or two you're missing they can be added manually.11:04
=== justdave suspects it's the entire suite of xorg stuff though
fabbionejustdave: only 3 packages11:04
fabbionehem no11:04
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fabbionea bit more than that11:05
danielsfabbione typoed11:05
danielshe typed '3', but really meant '67'11:05
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danielsmdz: could you please resync bz components please?11:18
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pittiMorning steve, doko, nmf, seb128!11:39
seb128hi pitti !11:40
Mithrandirthom: *prod*11:50
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Mithrandiroh well, incoming glibc.11:56
seb128anybody has an opinion on 3550 ?12:05
seb128pmount is supposed to handle that ?12:06
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thomMithrandir: hiya12:07
thomthank you :-)12:07
danielsthom: 'morning sir12:07
dokoelmo: do we sync packages from experimental as well, or unstable only?12:09
Kamionfabbione,daniels: was xlibs-static-dev meant to depend on the stuff you guys split out of it for transitional purposes?12:09
seb128hey Kamion 12:09
Kamionhi seb12812:09
Kamionlet me stick that control-center package I did somewhere so you can tell me how much crack I'm on12:09
elmodoko: experimental only on demand12:09
seb128Kamion: the libxklavier problems, settings-daemon hanging are fixed in the GNOME head branch12:09
danielsKamion: no12:09
Kamionwhere was the hang fix?12:09
KamionI looked12:09
seb128Kamion: they just not have made a release for 2.9 ...12:09
danielsKamion: we'll deal with the very few FTBFSes caused by missing B-Ds on the new packages12:10
danielsKamion: like a year on, half of Debian still B-Ds on xlibs-dev, and that's crap12:10
dokoelmo: please sync python2.4 (beta2) from experimental 12:10
Kamionseb128: the problem I had was that libgswitchit was using XklConfig*() without having called XklConfigInit()12:11
Kamionseb128: which results in a very obscure hang (or segfaults, depending) in the middle of libxkbfile12:11
danielsKamion: sounds a lot like trying to use python-apt, except without all the clarity of instructions12:12
Kamionseb128: so I stuck XklConfigInit in gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-keyboard-xkb.c right after XklInit12:12
seb128Kamion: one min, I'm looking in the changes12:13
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Kamionseb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/control-center/12:14
danielsKamion: if the package fails because it can't find oldX.a or X10.h, it's time to talk to a little more than the Build_Deps with an axe12:16
Kamiondaniels: problem with control-center was that the package subtly broke more than failing, with some of them12:16
danielsKamion: was the c-c problem xklavier, missing b-ds, or both?12:17
danielsif you want to just assign me the bug for anything that ftbfs and b-ds on xlibs-static-dev (or xlibs-static-pic), i'd be happy to cop that12:19
Kamionseb128: shout if I should upload that or if you're taking care of it; I want to get a fix in ASAP so that I can finally build working CDs, though12:25
seb128Kamion: I'm working on it12:26
Kamionok, thanks12:26
seb128Kamion: but I'm pretty sure they fixed that upstream too, so I'm considering to upload the CVS snapshot of the 2.9 branch12:26
KamionI can't see it in CVS12:26
seb128my jhbuild used to hang a few days ago12:27
seb128and it doesn't anymore12:27
tuo2can someone explain to me the difference between sounders and ubuntu-devel mailing lists?12:27
seb128and I've spoken about this problem with gnomevfs devel a few days ago who pinged me later to said it was fixed or at least workarounded12:27
Kamionfair enough12:27
mvo_we have quite a few package with section "contrib/section" (e.g. jde and lots of others). do you think that this may confuse users? I got a bug about it (#3369) and I'm unsure what to do about it12:27
Kamiontuo2: sounder == off-topic chat; ubuntu-devel == development12:27
Kamiontuo2: sounder was our beta testers list before we went public12:28
Kamionbut that's historical now12:28
tuo2ah. ok.12:28
seb128Kamion: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15698612:29
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tuo2Kamion: thanks. I kept seeing references to it on devel mailing list12:29
Kamionseb128: thanks12:36
seb128Kamion: apparently the fix is on libxklavier12:40
seb1282004-10-31 21:00  svu12:41
seb128        * libxklavier/xklavier_config_xkb.c:12:41
seb128        Fixing the xkbcomp command line. Ubercool!12:41
pittielmo: can you please sync "tiff" from sid?12:42
mjg59thom: We got suspend working for jdub12:43
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danielsjdub: so that's why I get an X300, so I can wait like two months longer to get working suspend :P12:44
=== sid77 hello
Astharotsid77: ma tu sei di piacenza ?12:44
Astharotaz :P12:44
sid77who are you?12:45
sid77I'm thinking about someone in the lug12:45
Astharotyes ^_^12:45
thommjg59: holy crap12:46
thoma dell that works?12:46
danielsmjg59: what was the magic bullet?12:46
fabbionedoko: gcc is failing again12:47
Kamionseb128: ah ...12:48
fabbionedoko: do you want me to send you the log file now, or should i wait it will finish ?12:48
Kamionseb128: (I needed to change libxklavier's build-deps too: s/xlibs-static-dev/libxkbfile-dev/)12:48
seb128Kamion: I'm building your package now, if it works fine I'll upload that for the moment, time to sort that with upstream12:48
mjg59daniels: New kernel, my evil as fuck video reinit magic12:48
seb128Kamion: your solution seems to be right12:48
Kamioncool :)12:49
seb128thanks for tracking the problem :)12:49
danielsKamion: wait -- do not upload c-c yet12:49
Kamiondaniels: -> seb12812:49
danielsseb128: libxkbfile1's shlibs are sort of a little bit broken12:49
danielsxorg -1ubuntu2 coming in a bit12:49
mjg59thom: You should take a look at that acpi-support package12:49
seb128daniels: how short ?12:50
elmopitti: done12:50
mjg59daniels: Is it easy to add xorg.conf options by default on a driver-dependent basis?12:50
elmodoko: for 'main' ?12:50
danielsseb128: dunno, probably about 3h by the time I eat lunch and upload it and the buildds get it12:50
danielsmjg59: yes12:50
mjg59daniels: It seems that we want Option vberestore on for i81012:50
elmodaniels: btw, that libstdc++5-dev was minor, I hope you have lots of other reasons to upload too :)12:50
seb128elmo: could you remove trashapplet from hoary ?12:50
pittielmo: thx12:50
mjg59Edd isn't able to resume without it12:50
seb128daniels: ok12:50
fabbioneseb128: that the aussie placed the wrong simlinks around12:50
elmoseb128: ? what replaces it ?12:50
dokocurrently on the phone ...12:51
seb128elmo: it's a part of gnome-applets now12:51
danielsmjg59: craaaack12:51
seb128elmo: and it already has the conflicts/provides/replaces for like 1 week12:51
danielselmo: yes -- fix shlibs and symlinks across the board, add missing libxevie* files, fix libxext-dev vs libx{damage,fixes,composite,evie,dmx}-dev conflicts12:51
mjg59daniels: All it does is use VBE to save and restore video state, rather than just relying on what the driver thinks is useful12:52
elmoseb128: ok, cool12:52
mjg59daniels: The manpage claims it's broken in some places, but I haven't been able to find one yet12:52
danielsmjg59: oh cool12:52
danielsmjg59: that sounds sensible, because at last count there were 37 unique i8xx video BIOSes12:53
Kamionseb128: should trashapplet be removed from the desktop seed, then?12:53
danielsfor which we have the docs for exactly none12:53
seb128Kamion: yes12:53
elmoseb128: done12:53
Kamionseb128: done12:53
danielsmjg59: so using vbe whereever possible (the entire i8xx mode-setting code is vbe) is eminently sensible12:53
seb128Kamion: thanks :)12:53
elmogar.  python's strptime() can't parse 'date -R'12:54
mjg59daniels: This is disabled by default because it causes lockups on some platforms.12:54
mjg59It doesn't say /what/ platforms, irritatingly12:54
danielsmjg59: no, because that would be sensible12:55
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danielsmjg59: although if you get lockups on VBE, i810 in general will be a total minefield12:55
Kamionelmo: craaaaaaaaaack12:55
danielsmjg59: tempting to just enable it per default and find out what breaks, partially in service to science and partially out of morbid curiosity12:55
mjg59daniels: Rock12:56
thommjg59: should i be staying with 2.6.10pre or running the 2.6.9 you have up?12:56
=== daniels -> food
mjg59thom: Does suspend/resume work with that 2.6.10pre?12:56
mjg59I'd strongly recommend the 2.6.9 for now12:57
mjg59It seems more solid than the other ones12:57
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elmoseb128: dude, you so need a better internet connection :)12:57
thomsus/res works for me12:58
thomon 2.6.1012:58
mjg59Does cpufreq?12:58
seb128elmo: that's not my connexion, I've restarted my GNOME session to test Kamion's changed, but since I use a graphical IRC client ... :)12:58
thomif i have speedstep-centrino loaded, yes12:59
thomif i have acpi loaded, no12:59
seb128Kamion: ok, works fine. Do you want an upload now or should I wait on the new X.org upload ? (we can still do a second upload for the shlibs later)12:59
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Kamionseb128: I guess waiting on xorg is the right thing, I don't know how broken the shlibs are :-/01:00
mjg59thom: Oh, anything in /proc/acpi/processor ?01:00
thommjg59: no01:01
seb128Kamion: ok01:01
KamionI have to leave in four-and-a-half hours today, so I suspect I won't get working CDs before I leave01:01
mjg59thom: Ah, ok - I know what version you have now :)01:02
mjg59You won't be getting C2/C3 powersaving on the processor with that kernel01:03
=== thom grabs 2.6.9
rburtonmjg59: you'll know this -- in 2.6 my x20 correctly clocks down to 466mhz when i take the mains out, but i can't seem to push it back to 700mhz if i want to. should i be able to with cpufreq?01:05
mjg59rburton: Depends if it's doing speedstep or throttling01:08
mjg59But yeah, in principle01:08
rburtonoh hang on01:10
rburtonit's clocked up still01:10
rburtonif i don't run cpufreqd it doens't drop or something01:10
mjg59Don't use cpufreqd. It's rubbish.01:11
mjg59Use powernowd instead01:11
rburtonpowernowd gets the thumbs up from me01:14
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seb128hey hey jdub 01:23
lupus_jdub, are there plans to include lm-sensors in hoary?01:27
lupus_I see smartd is already planned01:27
danielslm-sensors is very difficult to get right01:28
danielsloading the right module on my machine involves a lot of guesswork, and a solid lockup if you get it wrong01:28
lupus_Why are drivers for other devices easily found but not for i2c?01:30
mjg59lupus_: Because there's no standard way of device identification01:32
mjg59lupus_: Probing the i2c bus can destroy hardware01:32
elmobecause they're the backstreet homeless of devices01:32
lupus_destroy hardware :s01:34
jdublupus_: i think it's already listed on the wiki01:34
thommjg59: looks good; i've added stopping mysql and dbus to prepare and restarting them in resume and that gets everything working here01:35
danielsthom: why stopping those two?01:36
thomdaniels: cos mysql and NetworkManager especially don't allow you to suspend if they're running01:37
mjg59thom: Rocking01:37
jdubthom: (if we had dependency-based init scripts...)01:37
=== jdub runs :-)
mjg59thom: Those scripts ought to be fairly generic01:37
mjg59(No idea if you've taken a look at them or not)01:38
thommjg59: indeed, been reading through them01:38
thomnice work!01:38
mjg59So, that leaves us with the lid switch01:38
=== thom notches yet another one on the mjg59 beer list
mjg59Which has two cases - on power and off power01:38
mjg59On power, we probably want to just blank the screen (unless the external video is in use, which we /ought/ to be able to tell once the video acpi support goes in)01:39
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danielsthom: at this rate, he'd better not bring his X40 the next time he sees you, or he'll be edwarded01:39
elmothom: WTF kind of crack is that - why would mysql care?01:39
danielsthom: NM is cracktastic01:39
mjg59elmo: It's something to do with signal handling01:39
mjg59The problem is how we blank the screen01:39
mjg59The easy solution would be to chvt away from X, do a dpms off and then on open do a dpms on and chvt back to X01:40
mjg59Not all hardware gives us the second lid event01:40
thomoh, lovely01:40
thomso we could end up never turning the screen back on?01:40
mjg59So, instead we can leave it up to X (since if we use X's dpms code, X will power it back up when someone hits a key)01:41
mjg59But X doesn't always have working DPMS, especially if you're using the vesa driver01:41
danielss/ always//; s/, especially.*//01:42
mjg59daniels: WTF does the vesa driver not have DPMS support?01:42
mjg59The bright side is that /most/ hardware will blank the screen itself on lid close01:42
mjg59So the combination of X dpms and just letting the hardware get on with it should be fine01:42
danielsmjg59: i don't know, but I'd rather not find out01:42
jdubargh, bong, no gossip again01:42
thommjg59: so in the on power case, we probably just want to lock the screen and throttle xscreensaver, and then let the hardware get on with it?01:43
jdubthom: can we send xscreensaver a 'show lock dialogue' or send some mouse/key events to the X server when the lid is opened again?01:44
lupus_gnome-screenshot is gone in hoary01:44
lupus_can someone verify this01:44
jdublupus_: it's in gnome-utils, which hasn't been released yet01:44
mjg59thom: And do an xset dpms off01:44
Kamionlupus_: see ubuntu-users01:44
lupus_ah k01:44
mjg59thom: With luck, that'll get the backlight switched off01:45
thomand now the entertaining case, on battery01:46
mjg59thom: Also need to decide how to hook up the suspend to disk case, but that's a separate issue01:47
mjg59thom: Ok. The right thing to do is to suspend to RAM if the lid is closed and on battery.01:47
mjg59Except that some people would prefer this to happen after a few minutes rather than immediately.01:47
thommjg59: presumably suspend-to-disk would wind up in Computer/Log Out as a menu option 01:48
mjg59thom: Yeah01:48
mjg59thom: In an ideal world, we have user-settable policy01:48
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mjg59Which probably wants to be dbus based01:48
mjg59Then we can give them a nice little GUI01:48
thomthis is hard until we have dbus based powermanagement01:48
jdub(yay yay yay)01:48
jdubelmo: ping01:48
thomthat way we get consistent love over ppc/x86/amd64 too01:49
elmojdub: ?01:49
mjg59amd64 uses acpi too, so that's easier01:49
thomanyway, until then, i guess we can have a config file so that people who _want_ a timeout can just set one01:49
thombut we default to just suspending instantly?01:49
mjg59So the real question now is how we do stuff by default...01:50
mjg59We probably ought to add support for S1 as well, since that'll work everywhere01:50
mjg59Well, except on hardware that doesn't support it, of course01:50
mjg59But S1 needs dpms calls either side of it, because it won't usually blank the screen otherwise01:51
mjg59The craptop works fine in S101:51
thom(we also need to work out a policy for APM, too. although that _should_ be easier)01:52
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thomwindows suspend is S1 by default, right? 01:53
danielsthom: yes, you have to go start->shut down->standby(s3)/hibernate(s4)01:53
danielsso we'll be beating them in that regard if we pull this off01:53
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mjg59It /is/?01:54
mjg59That's crack-tastic01:55
Kamionjdub: can you set me as maintainer for partman* in bugzilla?01:55
dokoelmo: For python2.4, I would propose main, but I'm unsure if I'm allowed to. the final python2.4 release is scheduled for December.01:55
thomhm, just thinking it would be far less of a support hassle to go down the same road, but make it really easy for people to switch to S301:55
mjg59daniels: The X40 doesn't do S1, so this certainly isn't always the case01:55
mjg59thom: S1 gives... little power saving01:55
dokofabbione: failing to build, or failing in the testsuite?01:55
elmodoko: can you mail/ask mdz/jdub and get sign off on a) importing it, and b) asking where to import it?01:55
thommjg59: so i'm reading - Standby by default is S1, but if you set it in the bios it'll use S3 instead01:56
thommjg59: nod01:56
Kamionjdub: also netcfg01:56
mjg59thom: Ah - I see what you mean. I think most laptops default to S3.01:56
jdubKamion: ok01:56
mjg59But yeah, Award BIOSes tend to let you choose01:56
dokoelmo: ok, jdub, listening?01:56
thomcan we get the information out of the bios? is there a consistent "suspend me harder" flag?01:56
jdubdoko: please mail devel, cc mdz/me01:57
Kamionhm, and debconf might not hurt either01:57
danielsthom: DAMNIT MAN01:57
jdubKamion: hrm, perhaps email a list :)01:57
dokojdub: ok01:57
danielsthom: my t-shirt just became a multi-purpose coffee-removal-from-laptop tool01:57
mjg59thom: Not that I know of01:57
thommjg59: figures01:57
Kamionjdub: where?01:58
jdubKamion: oh, just to me01:58
mjg59thom: S3 is expected to Just Work on modern hardware (in the Windows world, anyway) so I suspect that if there is anything it'll be in the Windows driver files01:58
thommjg59: ugh.01:58
thommjg59: hardware database time, again01:58
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danielsthat and a large list of modules which are known to not cope well with power management01:58
mjg59I suggest we get this stuff into Hoary and default to S3, then pick up the pieces01:59
mjg59Revert it before release01:59
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Kamionjdub: sent01:59
thomright, so test it as hard as possible, but not necessarily go through with it01:59
thomughfull, but the sensible route01:59
mjg59thom: Sure, except possibly for whitelisting stuff01:59
cenerentolasorry but ive got connection problems..02:00
daniels(this is my current plan with Composite, if we can get it off the ground at all)02:00
cenerentolaive also reported thi error--- *** Couldn't look up your hostname02:00
cenerentola...mmm sorry02:00
elmosuspend stuff seems so much harder on i386 - it "just works" on my powerbook now ;-)02:00
mjg59thom: Other thing that needs doing is adding apm to /etc/modules by default02:00
danielselmo: you're speaking to three x40 owners here :)02:00
cenerentolait gives an error for eggdesktopentries.c line 22302:01
mjg59elmo: Haha. Yeah, to a large extent it /is/ harder on i386 - PPC leaves more up to OF02:01
thomcenerentola: dude, wrong channel02:01
danielsmjg59: (of also doing sane things like setting up your video hardware for you so you don't have to care anywhere near as much)02:01
thommjg59: will that do the right thing consistently - ie, only give you apm suck if acpi is turned off?02:01
mjg59thom: Yes02:02
danielsthom: if module load order is guaranteed, then yes02:02
mjg59daniels: Doesn't matter - acpi has to be static02:02
danielsthom: if acpi is lodaed, apm goes 'oh shit i think that's acpi peace for real though' and buggers off02:02
danielsoh, in that case, yeah02:02
mjg59thom: In that case we also want a handy script that people can run in order to send us their DMI data along with whether it worked or not02:03
mjg59I think we'll be in good shape on most modern hardware02:04
mjg59But it'll be interesting to see02:04
thomit should be fun, definitely02:04
mjg59thom: Oh, Edd reported functionality on his Sony02:04
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mjg59He doesn't get text consoles back, but he gets X02:05
thommjg59: score! that's a good start, anyway02:05
mjg59(As of yesterday)02:05
mjg59That's why we do the extra console-changing dance at the end02:05
thomyeah, i was wondering about that02:05
mjg59Oh, the dpms program uses vm86, so it won't run on amd6402:07
thomoh joy02:07
mjg59video_post has an x86 emulator, so it'll be fine02:07
mjg59Now that I understand what video_post actually does, it ought to be possible to put the dpms functionality in there02:08
cenerentolathom: you may be right but there's no one able to help in #ubuntu02:11
Kamionthat's not a reason to bring support stuff here; if nobody can help on IRC, try the mailing list, or report a bug if that's appropriate02:12
thommjg59: i'm going to attempt to bend the wiki to my will and write this stuff up02:12
mjg59thom: Rocking02:12
daniels05:13 :::: Irssi: #ubuntu-devel: Total of 79 nicks 0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 79 normal02:13
daniels05:13 :::: Irssi: #ubuntu: Total of 300 nicks 0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 300 normal02:14
danielsalso, virtually everyone in #ubuntu-devel is in #ubuntu, so02:14
danielsthom: good luck on the first count02:14
Kamionhow goes that xorg fix?02:15
danielsKamion: just quadruple-checking *.links files before I scp to chinstrap02:16
=== sid77 bye all
jdub"Oxford University Computing Services (OUCS), which provides services to staff and students around the university, will complete its move to open-source PostgreSQL as the back-end database for most of its systems over the next year."02:16
jdub^ nice!02:17
sladenpresumbly they were using mysql before ;-)02:23
=== thom drums fingers and waits for the wiki
elmoyeah, but they found it couldn't survive a suspend/resume cycle :-P02:24
mjg59elmo: Oh, it survives - it's the suspend/resume cycle that doesn't02:25
=== elmo runs screaming into a wall
danielshow tragic, their main database x300s won't be able to go into s3 :P02:26
jdubKamion: done02:26
Kamionjdub: great, thanks02:28
Kamionelmo: please sync partman-lvm to unstable02:30
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sladenmjg59: if lid_closed && on_battery && !kismet_running02:31
danielssladen: not that you get to keep your centrino modules around a switch to s3, anyway02:32
elmoKamion: done02:32
sladenthom/daniels: in XP, if you press shift at the Log-Out screen, the standby changes to hibernate (why they didn't put both, I don't know)02:33
thom(yay discoverability)02:34
danielsoh my god, crack02:34
Kamionelmo: partman-partitioning too02:34
danielsstill, goes nicely with XP's 'someone just forced open my eyelids and poured speed in' UI02:34
elmoKamion: done02:35
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cenerentoladaniels: http://www.pastebin.com/11855202:42
Mithrandirfabbione, daniels: you rock.02:42
danielsMithrandir: what've we done this time?02:43
thomMithrandir: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/g/glibc/2.3.2.ds1-18ubuntu2/ :(02:43
=== Mithrandir whacks thom with firefox' forgetfulness.
Mithrandirit doesn't remember it should have middlemousecontenturl.02:43
Mithrandirthom: well, it's not _failed_ at least. :)02:44
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Mithrandirdaniels: my xorg upgrade Just Worked.02:55
danielsMithrandir: ill02:55
Mithrandirthat's what you've done.02:55
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Mithrandirfabbione: help me remember to buy you beer in .es02:57
mjg59Keybuk: Does your machine have ACPI S1?02:57
fabbioneMithrandir: ehehe02:57
Keybukno... not that I'm aware02:57
Keybuksyndicate scott% cat /proc/acpi/sleep02:57
KeybukS0 S3 S4 S4bios S502:57
GeorgeDdaniels: beer or 3 for you next time i see you (luv meet i suppose)02:58
sladenmjg59: S1 is just basically putting the processor into HALT ?02:58
fabbionedaniels: i guess we will spend 3/4 of DecConf drunk :P02:58
mjg59I'm planning on getting hold of tbm's and using his docking station to do some more debugging02:58
danielsGeorgeD: heh, not until January at least, thanks though02:58
danielsfabbione: heh02:58
mjg59sladen: Yeah, CPU state isn't lost02:58
danielsKamion: 6.8.1-1ubuntu2 uploaded02:59
Mithrandirfabbione: you say that as if it's a bad thing.02:59
fabbioneMithrandir: i am not used to high alchoolic level :)02:59
fabbionenot anymore at least02:59
Mithrandirwell, you need training, then.02:59
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jdub   * debian/patches/990_ubuntu_accept_enabled_for_extensions.diff: accept03:08
jdub     Enabled and Disabled for the Extensions section, so what I said in my03:08
jdub     -announce mail actually works.03:08
jdubdaniels: SIPPER!03:08
danielsjdub: hey, you bitched at me for sending the *one* announce mail :P03:08
Kamion"I typoed. I know, let's change X"03:08
danielsKamion: seemed sensible at the time03:09
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jdubdaniels: nah, just the list you chose ;)03:09
=== Keybuk toys with moving his desktop to hoary as well
cenerentoladaniels: youre way  doesnt work03:09
danielsjdub: ah, heh03:09
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=== mjg59 gets the craptop to S1, but notes that the CPU fan doesn't switch off
mjg59thom: Heh. One issue...03:12
mjg59S1 seems to need the button module loaded in order to be able to wake up03:13
danielsheh, oops03:13
danielsmjg59: if by 'fan', you mean 'speaker' ...03:14
Keybuk*giggle* ... "Cc 'elmo' didn't match anything"03:14
danielsKeybuk: troup03:14
mjg59thom: So the sleep script needs to check what state we're going to and deal with it appropriately03:16
thomfun. 03:16
mjg59thom: Not sure what the best fix is - IIRC, acpid serialises calls, so naive locking won't work03:16
mjg59Hurrah. So, I can get the craptop to suspend and switch off its screen.03:18
mjg59Of course, it has no way of switching the fan off from software.03:19
Kosaimjg59: Ooh.  I'm impressed that you've got somewhere with it.03:19
mjg59Kosai: This is by doing S1 rather than S303:20
mjg59S3 is still fucked03:20
KamionKeybuk: can you make the merge-o-matic look at openssh/experimental rather than unstable?03:20
jdubmjg59: the fan is necessary for the on-board flame detection feature.03:20
zuli was wondering how you go about fixing those merge-o-matic bugs on the bugzilla03:21
mjg59Heh. So, it stops the CPU, it switches off the screen and it stops the hard drive03:21
mjg59But there's no way we can pretend that it's suspending if the fan is still going03:21
Kamionzul: download merge candidate prepared by Scott, compare diffs side by side, make any necessary changes, upload03:21
KeybukKamion: I guess ... it'd need a config file somewhere, but it's do-able03:21
Kamionzul: occasionally give up on the automerge and do something else entirely03:22
Keybukbasically apply the changes in .dropped by hand, then make sure that _ubuntu.{patch,debdiff} and _merged.{patch,debdiff} are identical, or you can explain anything missing03:23
fabbioneKeybuk: can you kindly disable that automatic bug thing sync with debian stuff for xfree86?03:25
zuli dont have upload access so if anything breaks should i attach it to the bug report?03:25
Keybukfabbione: no, elmo has to do that03:26
fabbioneKeybuk: ok03:26
KeybukI assume it'll stop automatically when we don't have xfree86 in the archive03:26
fabbioneelmo: can you please do the above?03:26
fabbioneKeybuk: no.. i am going to do another XFree86 upload03:26
fabbionebut with time and quiteness03:26
Keybukoh?  are we having both in our archive?03:26
fabbioneonly to have xserver-xfree8603:27
danielswe do not have an xfree86 source package for hoary03:27
fabbionedaniels: yes we do03:27
fabbionethe source is still there03:27
fabbionewe uploaded xorg_6.8.1.orig.tar.gz03:27
fabbionethat has nothing to do with xfree86_4.3.003:28
Keybukthen don't we *want* to continue updating our xfree86 package against Debian?03:28
fabbioneKeybuk: no03:28
Keybukwhy not?03:28
fabbioneit is only for a temporary amount of time03:28
danielscan someone run madison on the archive to verify whether or not we have xfree86 in the archive for hoary?03:28
sivangusing hoary : anybody noticed how slow nautilus is? it's taking me about ages to navigate through the directory tree..03:28
Keybukfabbione: how temporary?03:28
jdubsivang: have you upgraded adn not installed gamin?03:29
fabbioneKeybuk: xserver-xorg is way new for us03:29
danielssivang: install gamin03:29
fabbioneand not that many people have tested it yet03:29
fabbioneKeybuk: if something is really broken on xorg server03:29
fabbionethe user is still able to install xfree86 (server) easily03:30
fabbioneuntil we don't fix the problem and kill the old server03:30
sivangjdub : strange, it's been downloaded - but wasn't installed using dist-upgrade..03:30
jdubsivang: do you have ubuntu-desktop installed?03:30
fabbionexorg hasn't been around enough to be able to kill xfree86 from one day to another03:30
fabbioneKeybuk: we are talking about a few weeks.. not years03:31
sivangjdub : was also not installed, although downloded. installing now03:32
sivangjdub : got some gtk assertions failing, when installing. from eggdesktopentries.c03:33
sivangbut in the end, it's now back to speed :) 03:33
sivangthanks jdub03:33
seb128sivang: these assertions are coming from update-desktop-databasa probably03:35
seb128sivang: is there an hoary system ? do you have mplayer uptodate from multiverse ?03:36
sivangfabbione : do we get to set up funkey vertrefresh rates using the new xorg? or just use the same crafted modes lines from xfree..?03:37
fabbionesivang: xorg = xfree86+morebugs+morecracks03:37
fabbionei leave up to you the answer to your question :-)03:37
sivangfabbione : great! Starting to feel like sid again...:)03:38
danielshopefully there's sufficient laptop timing detection code (maybe the stuff from ATI does it) that we can kill horizsync/vertrefresh in the config file altogether03:38
daniels... but not in the very near future03:39
Kamionzul: hm, merges may be best left to the Ubuntu maintainer it's assigned to, but yeah, pretty much03:43
Kamionzul: install patchutils and attach the debdiff against the Debian version, probably03:43
Kamiondaniels: madison> yes, you do03:45
Kamioncjwatson@little:~$ madison-lite -s hoary -S xfree8603:45
Kamion   libxft1 | 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25 |         hoary | amd64, i386, powerpc03:45
Kamionlibxft1-dbg | 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25 |         hoary | amd64, i386, powerpc03:45
Kamion   xfree86 | 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25 |         hoary | source03:45
Kamionxserver-xfree86 | 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25 |         hoary | amd64, i386, powerpc03:45
Kamionxserver-xfree86-dbg | 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25 |         hoary | amd64, i386, powerpc03:45
danielsKamion: thakns03:45
danielsKamion: i take it madison isn't accessible to mere mortals? (elmo?)03:45
Kamionmadison itself requires direct database access => login on jackass03:46
sivangseb128 : checking..03:46
Kamionmadison-lite can operate on any mirror03:46
danielsoh, cool03:47
Kamionit's the equivalent of grovelling through Packages and Sources files, but less boring03:48
=== mjg59 mails ubuntu-devel
jdubmjg59: go go go!03:52
azeemis http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ConferenceAttendees supposed to look unreadable?04:00
Mithrandirazeem: no04:00
Keybukit's on the new Wiki ... so I guess "yes" :p04:02
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-17-243.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirthe new wiki is doooog sloooow04:03
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mitariohi everyone04:05
mvo_hi Mitario 04:05
Mithrandirazeem: I'm trying to unbreak it.04:06
Kamionlooks like it's set to the wrong markup type04:07
Mithrandiryeah, which broke all the line breaks.04:07
Mithrandirbut the wiki is so slooooooooooooooow04:08
Mitariomvo_, i've been brainstorming a bit about a way to fetch the current upstream stable, I have not found a definit solution though :)04:08
Mitarioi think we could have a file onlinw somewhere04:08
mvo_Mitario: I haven't yet thought about it04:10
=== Mithrandir considers giving up fixing the wiki, as it's too slow.
=== Mithrandir gives up
zulthat was quick :)04:15
Mithrandirsomebody else can have the fun, zwiki and I are not friends, it seems.04:16
=== Kamion has a go
Kamionhmm, it's not clear that that helped04:21
Kamiondoes zwiki's moinmoin markup support tables?04:21
MithrandirI couldn't get it to, but that gui widget Just Did The Wrong Things for me.04:22
jdubKamion: ours is fixed to handle it, so i hear04:22
Mithrandirit worked before that last person added himself.04:22
Kamionah, it's helpfully done an HTML->moin conversion for me, brokenly04:24
KamionI'm fixing it again04:25
Keybukjdub: rock @ gnome-menus04:25
MithrandirKamion: that was probably what threw me off, and I'm impatient today.04:25
seb128Keybuk: have you tried it ?04:26
Keybukno, I only just saw the mail04:26
jvwthe annoying thing about this wiki is that it doesn't support outright reverts...04:26
jdubKeybuk: yeah :)04:27
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Mithrandirjvw: the annoying this is it seems to be run on a 0.5MHz uC with 2k of ram which uses external donkey-based storage, so it's _dog_ slow.04:27
Keybukjdub: did you read my crackful musing on nautilus/filechooser type-ahead btw?04:27
=== sid77 hi
jvwMithrandir: frustrated :-)?04:27
jdubKeybuk: having a bar like firefox/04:28
Mithrandirjvw: not the least. :P04:28
Keybukjdub: yeah, so as you start to type an entry box appears at the bottom to match your typing04:28
Keybukjdub: if you didn't put a /, it'd also highlight in the list whatever matched04:28
jvwMithrandir: the editor doesn't even have vi-keybindings04:29
rburtonKeybuk: i think jrb proposed that at some point04:29
jdubKeybuk: might be better than the current find box stuff04:29
Mithrandirjvw: editor?  You mean the form field?04:29
jdubKeybuk: have you used the gtk+ 2.5 file selector yet?04:29
Keybukjdub: it's changed?04:29
KamionMithrandir: fixed04:29
jvwyeah. primitive, eh? vi was longer around that a form field :)04:29
MithrandirKamion: ty04:29
thomMithrandir: the depressing thing is that's it's a dual xeon and is utterly unloaded04:30
=== jvw gives a go at fucking it up again
Keybukjdub: ah, neat, so that already does something like it :p04:30
Mithrandirthom: takes a while for anything to come through the pipeline on those beasts, you know.04:30
jdubplus you can just type / and it pops up the location box04:30
Keybukthough that doesn't complete quite the same way :-/04:30
Mithrandirthom: you should rather have gone for the amd64 boxes. :)04:30
jdubKeybuk: it's a bit rough, yeah04:31
Mithrandirthom: and you must remember to remove those "sleep(5)" around in the code.04:31
jvwhm, it barfs on me logging in now...04:31
Keybukhopefully by es-conf, I'll actually have some free time to code rather than hand-wave my ideas :o)04:31
Keybukoh, #6 at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libtool/2004-11/msg00132.html :o)04:32
sivangstrabge, new copying from a cd to hd take shorter time, however it doesn effect the other system prformance. this is something I am not familiar with in linux..04:33
jdubKeybuk: is that a libtool goal?04:33
sivangwonder if this is connected somehow to that gamin thingy :)04:33
Keybukjdub: it's a proposed one for 2.1 yes04:33
KamionKeybuk: #7 *yay*04:36
Kamionis #2 the one that makes libtool disappear on Linux?04:37
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Keybuklargely, it still has to do a fair bit of work on Linux to battle stupid developers04:37
thomseb128: you get a day off for "britain rescued us" day or something? ;-)04:39
Kamionseb128: control-center should be uploadable now04:40
thomAAARGH, epiphany's done the focussing-the-wrong-tab trick again04:46
danielsthom: when's the UK's 'america saved us' day?04:46
thomdaniels: same day as australia's one04:47
KeyserSozehello ppl04:47
danielsthom: you're confusing that with our 'foreign policy rights firesale' day04:47
danielsthom: so, recount to me the tale of WW204:48
=== daniels ducks.
fabbionehey KeyserSoze 04:48
thomdaniels: wrong war, dude04:48
KeyserSozecould someone please update the enlightenment package to 16.7.1?04:48
KeyserSozesup fab04:48
fabbioneKeyserSoze: hacking on x.org as usual04:49
fabbioneKeyserSoze: is that version in debian already?04:49
KeyserSozeunstable I believe so04:49
KeyserSozelet me check04:49
fabbionejdub: do we any policy for not allowing syncs from sid?04:49
danielsthom: the one where you picked on the big kids and then ran out of money and sold your colonies off04:49
fabbione(when it goes to universe)04:50
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Kamiondaniels: 11 November = armistice day following WW104:50
Kamionhi infinity04:50
KeyserSozefabbione: nope04:50
danielsKamion: timely discussion, it seems04:50
KeyserSozedeb is still behind even on unstable04:50
mvo_pitti: do you mind if I upload a new aptitude this evening with changelog download enabled again?04:50
Kamiondaniels: don't look at me, I'm from the colony that was unfortunate enough *not* to get sold off04:51
thomKeyserSoze: we're not going to package stuff that we don't care about, sadly. too much to do anyway04:51
pittimvo_: no, why I should?04:52
danielsKamion: as was my great-grandfather; something about potatoes04:52
pittimvo_: if ubuntu changelogs are actually available now?04:52
KeyserSozethom: thx... just trying to prove a point04:52
thomKeyserSoze: um, what point?04:52
KeyserSozenothing its ok04:52
mvo_pitti: yes, for now on people.u.o/~mvo/changelogs04:52
pittimvo_: nice :-)04:52
mvo_indeed :)04:52
pittimvo_: this should revert many patches04:53
mvo_pitti: yes, I'm building right now :)04:53
fabbionethom: more than we don't care about. is that there are no debs in debian to sync from04:53
pittimvo_: have fun, I have to go now. CU tomorrow!04:53
thomfabbione: yes, which is why i said "we're not going to package stuff" :-)04:54
infinityNo debs of what, exactly?04:54
KeyserSozeno worries I'll roll my own .debs04:54
fabbioneinfinity: latest enlightment?04:54
jdubfabbione: for hoary, or warty?04:54
seb128Kamion: ok04:54
fabbionejdub: hoary04:54
seb128thom: ah ah :p04:54
fabbionejdub: last time i checked *WARTY* was released04:54
jdubfabbione: unless there's ubuntu changes, we ought to be able to sync whenever04:55
=== thom grins at seb
jdubfabbione: check with elmo/lamont if they've already got a sync routine going, though04:55
thomjdub: it's not in unstable yet, that's the point04:55
jdubfabbione: that's why i saked :)04:55
fabbionejdub: ok...04:55
jdubthom: oh04:55
jdubok, now i don't grok04:55
Keybukthe sync routine is in full speed swing04:55
Keybukelmo syncs stuff that's changed in unstable and we haven't changed04:55
seb128I've to go, bbr04:55
Keybukand punts the list of things that changed in both to mom, which does the merge and files bugs04:56
seb128Kamion: I've to go now, if you want to do a control-center upload just drop the 23_.. patch and updated the build-dep on libxklavier to 1.1104:56
seb128Kamion: I'll do the upload when I come back if you don't do it04:56
Kamionseb128: ok, will do it now then, thanks04:56
danielscan we please blacklist xfree86 from the syncage? :)04:57
jdubthom: so what was the question about...?04:57
danielsKamion: xorg 6.8.1-1ubuntu2 is in, should be safe to upload04:57
danielsKamion: just check that anything using libxkbfile.so.1 gets a dep on libxkbfile1 before you upload though04:57
KeybukKamion: on, wrt to the experimental thing ... the trouble is that elmo only checks unstable; so as soon as we leap ahead in versions you won't get any further sync suggestions until unstable catches up with experimental04:58
thomjdub: KeyserSoze wanted enlightenment updated to the latest, which isn't in unstable04:58
elmoeventually, I plan to keep better track of where we sync stuff from, then I can keep track of experimental stuff too04:59
KeyserSozeI'm building my own debs04:59
KeyserSozeits cool04:59
fabbioneelmo: mind to check if that version of enlightment is in experimental?04:59
elmofabbione: there's no enlightenment in experimental05:00
fabbioneKeyserSoze: this is something that we might need in general later05:00
fabbioneKeyserSoze: not just for enligh05:00
fabbioneelmo: thanks05:00
jdublamont_r: ping05:04
infinityWhen did lamont become treadsafe?05:06
danielsone thread for each buildd05:06
elmoAFAIK he isn't.  he knows martial arts, I wouldn't tread on him, IIWY05:06
danielselmo: hey, I know martial arts also05:07
danielselmo: unfortunately I am hopelessly out of shape and my knees won't let me sustain any form of usage whatsoever05:07
danielselmo: is he *good* at it?05:07
elmoI dunno - why don't you piss him off and find out for us? :)05:08
lamont_rjdub: yo05:09
jdubhey lamont_r 05:09
lamont_rinfinity: roving05:09
jdublamont_r: what's the status of the DC livecd builds?05:09
jdubor should i be asking amu for the details?05:09
Kamionbleh, my new debootstrap is BROKEN05:09
lamont_rjdub: I need to check with amu on that05:09
=== Kamion discovers an exciting new "feature" of diversions
lamont_rjdub: the status is that the last drop I'm currently aware of required that root run it in the real root, or it failed to build a working CD.05:10
Kamionor of debootstrap, I'm not sure which05:10
danielselmo: that's a great idea!05:11
Kamionif you have a package that adds a diversion and installs a file in the same place, and you put that package in debootstrap's "required" section, then debootstrap will first extract it ignoring diversions, then unpack/configure it normally, which will give you both the file *and* the diverted copy05:11
=== spazzy [~chamikal@AMontsouris-152-1-4-145.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukthat's just a debootstrap feature05:12
Keybukit unpacks stuff by just untarring it05:12
Kamionif the copy that gets dropped in in place of the diverted file happens to be a wrapper script that calls the diverted file if it exists, you get an infinite loop05:12
spazzyHow can we make request about adding software ?05:12
Keybukrather than using dpkg, which knows about diversions05:12
KamionKeybuk: yes, I know about that, but the comment I just made turns it from an expected feature into something really exciting :)05:12
MithrandirKeybuk: it's kinda hard to use dpkg when it's not unpacked yet, no?05:12
spazzybecause Ubuntu will be great if there was directly a CD, DVD burning application05:13
Keybukspazzy: nautilus-cd-burner exists05:13
jdubspazzy: you can use nautilus-cd-burner now, we're looking at coaster for hoary.05:13
Keybukthe trouble with, e.g. k3b is: Depends: k3blibs (>= 0.11.12), kdelibs4 (>= 4:3.2.3), libart-2.0-2 (>= 2.3.16), libarts1 (>= 1.2.3), libasound2 (>> 1.0.5), libaudio2, libaudiofile0 (>= 0.2.3-4), libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libesd0 (>= 0.2.29-1) | libesd-alsa0 (>= 0.2.29-1), libfam0c102, libgcc1 (>= 1:3.3.4-1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.4.1), libice6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libmad0 (>= 0.15.1b), libogg0 (>= 1.1.0), libpng12-0 (>=, libqt3c102-mt (>= 3:305:13
Keybuk.2.3-3), libsm6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libstdc++5 (>= 1:3.3.4-1), libvorbis0a (>= 1.0.1), libvorbisfile3 (>= 1.0.1), libx11-6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxext6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxrender1, libxt6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), cdrecord (>= 4:2.0+a18-1), cdparanoia (>= 3a9.8), mkisofs (>= 1.10), kdelibs-data (>= 4:3.1.4-2), kdebase-bin05:13
spazzyand the googlefight between totem-xine and totem-gstreamer ? :)05:14
Keybukthat's a lot of stuff to drag in for just one app :p05:14
jdubspazzy: we can't ship totem-xine by default due to legal issues.05:14
danielsKeybuk: wow, impressive05:14
spazzyHoary will include bootsplash ?05:15
spazzydid see on roadmap05:15
Kamionnot by that name05:15
spazzydidn't see on the roadmap05:15
spazzybootsplash not good ?05:15
Kamionit broke the installer when we tried to add it for warty05:15
Kamiondon't go there.05:15
danielsgod I hate the forum icons05:16
sjoerdjdub: if you can't ship totem-xine, you also can't ship gst-ffmpeg or ?05:16
danielslike one of a BIG GREEN ARROW pointing to the post05:16
jdubsjoerd: nup :)05:16
jdubsjoerd: same issue05:16
danielswhat's the alternative?  a huge icon saying 'IGNORE THIS POST IT IS CRAP'?05:16
jdubsjoerd: (same code...)05:16
spazzyand last question sorry :)05:16
spazzywhy not integrated xmms or zinf ?05:16
spazzyby default ?05:17
fabbioneah ok05:17
jdubspazzy: rhythmbox05:17
danielstoday's sage advice: 'Removing ubuntu-desktop will not ruin your the default "setup" of the OS. It is basically just a list of applications that make the install easier.05:17
danielsIts kind of like shopping .... you use the shopping list to help you get the food, but when your done putting all the food in your car after paying for it ... you don't need the list anymore. Or do you? Well ... I guess if you want to keep to the default shopping list! LOL'05:17
spazzyjdub : yes 05:17
sjoerdjdub: that's why i asked.. i'm curious about what debian is gonna do05:17
sjoerdwe'll see in due time :)05:17
elmojdub: btw, how's the polypaudio thing playuing out ?05:18
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spazzythank you for the answer05:18
spazzygreat work you have done05:18
jdubelmo: lennart's fixing lots of stuff.05:18
jdubelmo: not sure atm05:18
spazzyI hope xfce 4.2 arrives soon on Ubuntu :)05:18
jdubelmo: have been playing with the possibility of jack+esound05:18
Keybukspazzy: it should be in universe?05:19
spazzy4.2 ??05:19
Keybukis it in Debian?05:19
spazzyPaquet: xfce405:20
spazzyVersion: 4.0.5-105:20
spazzyPriorit: optionnel05:20
spazzySection: universe/x1105:20
spazzyResponsable: Martin Loschwitz <madkiss@debian.org>05:20
Keybukah, well ... that's just a package we take from Debian, so until the Debian maintainers upload it there it won't turn up in Ubuntu05:20
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=== Kamion uploads a now-hopefully-working debootstrap, and skedaddles to the theatre
KamionI'll be back for a bit later on this evening05:35
danielshave fun05:39
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stratusWhere can i see at wiki the list with requested packages for hoary? Packages that are at 'universe', for example.05:55
lamont_rstratus: universe is "everything else" - that is, things not on one of the lists05:56
stratuslamont_r, i know but have you a page at the wiki with requested packages for hoary?05:56
lamont_rstratus: wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryHedgehog has links05:57
stratuslamont_r, thanks05:58
thomlamont_r: please can you sign glibc on crested? :-)06:01
lamont_rthom: gah06:02
spazzythere isn't a rescue mode on the cd, it would be great 06:02
=== lamont_r goes to fix the &%)^* mail config...
thomlamont_r: i've fixed the mail config now 06:02
spazzyI have to make mkboot to rescue 06:02
thomdid so this morning06:02
danielslamont_r: how are you enjoying the xorg builds?  now with 2192-char Binary lines06:02
lamont_rthom: wanna fix king too, and see if yellow is configured at all?06:03
danielsanyway, I'm sure someone said something about fresh air and stuff06:03
lamont_rthom: done06:03
thomking is fixed, yellow isn't configured at all06:03
=== daniels -> fresh air, food, walking around, hotel, iced tea, generally other things that are not X code which is sort of starting to make my eyes BLEED LIKE HELL, really
lamont_rdaniels: ubuntu doesn't care06:05
lamont_rthom: uploaded06:06
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elmolol - #28063206:16
infinityI question his assertion that is works in /usr/bin/ and /tmp...06:18
infinityBut I love the example in ~ :)06:18
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infinityelmo : He's filed two of those.  #28049106:30
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tim1good evening06:42
amuhi mdz 06:44
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mdzthom: here?07:00
thommdz: mostly packing, but yeah07:01
mdzthom: could you resurrect your earlier email about the hardware database and send a copy to ubuntu-devel to start a proper discussion about the hardware database?07:01
thommdz: it's already been linked in the thread, but sure07:02
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elmowhy does gnome-cups-icon take so much damn CPU time, and can I kill the damn thing?07:24
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mdz    !!uri07:36
mdzPANIC: exiting on botched invariant07:36
=== mdz pummels arch
mdzKeybuk: do you know the translation for that one?07:36
Keybukwhat was the command?07:37
mdzKeybuk: make-archive07:37
thomisn't that arch's default "something bwoke" message?07:37
mdztla make-archive apt@packages.debian.org--apt apt@packages.debian.org--apt07:37
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mdzapparently that's arch-speak for "I want the location parameter to be a fully-qualified path"07:38
mdzchanging that last bit to `pwd`/... works07:38
Keybuk"not not a url"07:38
jdubmdz: s/arch/tla/07:40
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mdzjdub: are you saying it's fixed in baz?07:40
jdubmdz: being fixed in baz, yeah07:40
mdzwho's packaging baz for hoary, btw?07:40
jdubno one atm07:40
jdubthere's a per-checkin repo07:40
jdubbut no point doing a package until 1.0, according to lifeless07:41
mjg59I'm getting insufficient ACPI feedback love07:42
jdubI LOVE ACPI07:43
Keybukjdub: dude, fix -changes07:43
jdubalthough my suspend button doesn't always work07:43
jdubKeybuk: see discussion elsewhere07:44
Keybukjdub: nutwits keep mailing it07:44
mjg59jdub: Man, if you don't tell me these things, how am I supposed to increase your love quota?07:44
jdublook at your other tab07:44
jdubmjg59: but i just did!07:44
mjg59It doesn't always work07:44
jdubso you know how before, it didn't work with acpid running?07:45
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=== lamont2 screams at acpi
lamont2fabbione? 07:45
elmoif we manage to release hoary without baz, we should just all give up and go home07:45
mjg59lamont: Hello07:45
lamont2I close the lid, wait 10-20 minutes, and it won't unblank07:45
lamont2the other vt's all work just fine.07:45
thomelmo: dunno about you, but i'm already at home07:45
elmoerr, well, the "go home" part doesn't really work, but YKWM07:45
jdubmjg59: now it doesn't even have an acpi event when acpid is not running07:45
jdubelmo: we'll have baz in hoary07:46
jdubelmo: 1.0 is very soon07:46
mjg59jdub: Hmm. If you rmmod button and then modprobe button, does it start generating events?07:46
jdubsudo rmmod button just hung07:46
mjg59lamont2: That's very, very odd07:46
mjg59jdub: Bong07:46
jdub16366 pts/2    D+     0:00  |               |   \_ rmmod button07:46
mjg59jdub: Anything in dmesg?07:46
jdubno, just more usb noise07:47
jdubBuffer I/O error on device uba, logical block 007:47
jdub unable to read partition table07:47
mjg59I suspect some sort of interrupt or timing issue07:47
mjg59If you reboot the machine, do you get button events again?07:47
jduboh man07:47
mjg59lamont2: When did this start?07:47
lamont2mjg59: has always been the case07:48
lamont2acpid processes the lid open event, but screen stays blank07:48
mjg59What sort of hardware?07:48
mjg59lamont2: If you comment out the xscreensaver calls in /etc/acpi/lid.sh, does it stop misbehaving?07:49
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont2sony vaio pcg-fxa5307:49
lamont2mjg59: I'll comment them out now and see what happens the next time I accidentally leave the lid closed too long. :-)07:50
lamont2currently the only known recovery is ctl-alt-backspace, which is a little bit annoying07:50
=== lamont2 bounces
=== sivang [~sivang@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubmjg59: works fine after a reboot07:52
jdubmjg59: btw, on resuming, the lcd-dying-glow started happening, until it switched to X07:52
jdubback soon07:52
amuSun released a live CD of Java Desktop System07:52
mdzamu: interesting, URL?07:53
amuit's a morphix ;) 07:53
mjg59jdub: Yeah, it will do07:53
amumdz: http://www.osnews.com/07:53
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sivanghmm..printing doesn't work on hoary? seems the gui cups admin in gnome is badly unresponsive...07:53
amumdz: download need the hole day :) now i got it ..  07:54
Mithrandiramu: they had one of those a long time ago as well, didn't they?07:54
jdubyeah, they have07:54
amuMithrandir: yap, still the same.... 07:55
Mithrandirwell, then it's nothing interesting.  Nothin java about it.07:56
Keybukmdz: no luck with apt-rpm07:56
Keybukcvs [login aborted] : connect to cvs.conectiva.com.br( failed: Connection refused07:56
mvo_Keybuk: IIRC they  have a svn repository07:57
amuMithrandir: just loopmounted the iso, and i saw its a knoppixlike :) 07:57
Keybukmvo_: it starts off from half way through the development07:58
Keybukthey never imported the CVS history into it, fwict07:58
mvo_Keybuk: I can talk to the apt-rpm maintainer about it if it's importend07:59
amuMithrandir: suse is the only one, who think before they do something. It's also a with cloop, but the boot and startprozess much more better than the knoppix isos07:59
mdzKeybuk: gah07:59
mdzKeybuk: so they killed the cvs repository and started svn from scratch, not using cvs2svn or whatever?07:59
elmoaiee.  it's so so wrong that modern emacs can do inline images08:00
mdzmvo_: if you could try to get a tarball of the CVS repository, that would be incredibly helpful08:00
Keybukmdz: *looks* like it08:00
mvo_mdz: sure, I will ask gustavo. is it to import the stuff into an arch branch?08:01
mdzmvo_: it is to get the change history in order to merge some stuff and bring the forks closer08:01
mdzwe need to be able to go all the way back to where they forked from Debian08:02
ChrisHbtw, is arch a lot different than svn?08:02
mvo_mdz: I ask him08:02
Keybuknotably http://cvs.conectiva.com.br/ thinks it's a mailman server now :p08:03
Keybukmdz: yeah, confirmed; they just imported the upstream APT into SVN and then imported their CVS HEAD over the top of it08:04
Keybukno history there08:04
mdzcorrupt pristine (failed inode signature validation)08:04
Keybuknuke it08:04
mdzit should not even be looking in that directory08:05
mdzit is complaining about an archive in some subdirectory of my cwd08:05
Keybukoh, arch goes wandering across your filesystem looking for pristine trees :p08:05
mdzthis was a tla tag command08:05
mdzdid it fail?08:05
mdzone never knows with arch08:05
KeybukI've often wondered whether it climbs back up the filesystem, and if so whether it'd steal other user's pristines08:06
Keybukdescent pyarch% tla missing -Dscf $(<{arch}/+upstream)08:09
Keybuk^ I swear, some of the "every day" tla commands are obscene08:09
Keybukif I get RSI, I'm sueing Tom Lord08:10
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mvo_gustavo is looking for the old repository now. let's hope he finds it :)08:12
mdzmvo_: great, thanks08:12
carlosjdub: polypaudio is doing bad things08:15
carlosjdub: I'm getting noise instead of the "normal" sounds08:16
jdubhas it eaten anyone yet?08:16
carlosyes, my event sounds :-)08:16
jdubweird, haven't seen that before08:16
carlosuntil today, it just stop playing sounds08:16
carlosbut today instead of that it makes sounds08:16
carloslike the doom ones :-P08:17
jdubif you want to ping lennart about it, that'd be cool - we're still not officially committing to it yet :)08:17
carlosit's not a joke08:17
carlosjdub: ok08:18
carlosjdub: will do this weekend, too busy now. Thanks08:18
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carlosI'm too used to jabber...08:18
mdzKeybuk: http://chinstrap/~mdz/cvsballs/apt-rpm.tar.bz208:21
mdzKeybuk: courtesy of gustavo via mvo08:21
Keybuk2002. ... looks like the branch point :p08:29
Keybukisn't CVS's "give me the base of the branch" feature GREAT08:29
Keybukbecause -r1.1 is bad, precious08:30
mdzisn't the "give me the base of the branch" "feature" equivalent to "decode the RCS version number"? :-)08:31
Keybuknot if you want to checkout trunk as it was imported08:31
Keybuk-r1.1 will give you every single file at it's first revision08:31
Keybukincluding those added later08:31
Keybukso you have to grep through the ,v files and find a time which was after the initial import, but before the first change ... then check that out with -D08:32
mdzso which arch changeset does 2002. correspond to?08:32
Keybukdunno yet08:32
Keybukthat's the "difficult" bit <g>08:32
mdzif the answer is "none", do we cry?08:32
MithrandirKeybuk: you can't know for sure that -r1.1 exists for all files, even. :)08:32
Keybukstill waiting for rookery to checkout 1,303 revisions08:32
mdzI don't suppose tla has a handy "checkout relative to <this> and use hardlinks where nothing changed" feature08:34
mdzoh, it does have "hardlink to revision library" though08:35
KeybukI've often wondered whether that takes into account permission changes08:37
Keybukie. will it break the hardlink if the permissions change?08:37
=== Keybuk suspects not
Keybukand that might explain why I have so many random permission fiddles when using tla08:37
danielsmdz: yo, dude08:43
rcaskey_daniels: mucho thanks for beating xorg into shape08:43
=== daniels stares. Someone replied to his ubuntu-announce X.Org mail with just the headers, and list signature.
danielsrcaskey_: no worries -- props to fabbione also08:43
danielsah, that's what I wanted to ask you08:44
rcaskey_it enabled a luser like me to compile eye candy that crawls my system to a crawl, for that a sincere thank you08:44
rcaskey_compmgr is very fun with built in i810 video08:46
daniels(yeah, I have an i855)08:47
lamont_rmjg59: should I uncomment the -unthrottle as well?08:50
lamont_rer, comment that is.08:50
lamont_rmjg59: hrm.. should proc/acpi/ac_adapter/*/state say off-line, despite the fact that the power is plugged in?08:51
danielslamont_r: no08:51
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mjg59lamont_r: No, but that's not unusual08:52
lamont_r     Battery 1: charging, 100%, charging at zero rate - will never fully charge.08:53
lamont_rlamont@rover3:~ $ cat /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/*/state08:53
lamont_rstate:                   off-line08:53
rcaskey_Are the bottlenecks mostly composite bottlenecks?08:53
lamont_rwhich basically means that lid.sh is not unthrottling...08:53
mjg59lamont_r: Ah08:54
mjg59lamont_r: Is that the stock Warty kernel?08:54
lamont_rOTOH, doing that manually from another vt doesn't tend to unstick things08:54
lamont_rmjg59: stock warty everything08:54
lamont_rit even has ubuntu-desktop installed. :-)08:55
Keybukmdz: oh, man!08:55
mjg59lamont_r: Might be worth trying my test kernel08:55
mdzKeybuk: hmm?08:55
Keybukdescent arch-test% ls -l foo08:55
Keybuk-rwxrwxr-x    1 scott    scott          25 2004-11-10 19:51 foo*08:55
Keybukdescent arch-test% tla changes08:55
Keybuk* looking for scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--0--patch-2 to compare with08:55
Keybuk* comparing to scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--0--patch-208:55
Keybuk-- 08:55
Keybukfoo is executable, and there's no local changes08:55
Keybukbut, wait!08:56
=== mdz waits for the punchline
Keybukdescent scott% tla get scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--008:56
Keybuk* ensuring library has scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--0--patch-208:56
Keybuk* from revision library: scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--0--patch-208:56
Keybuk* tree version set scott@netsplit.com--test/test--test--008:56
Keybukdescent scott% ls -l test--test--0--patch-2/foo08:56
Keybuk-rw-rw-r--    1 scott    scott          25 2004-11-10 19:56 test--test--0--patch-2/foo08:56
mdzhow did you arrive at that state?08:56
mdzrookery certainly seems to be enjoying itself08:57
Keybukinit-tree, import, changes, touch foo, add foo, commit, changes, chmod +x foo, commit08:57
Keybukie. just made sure at each step of the way that I had it in my revision library08:57
mdzKeybuk: you shouldn't need to checkout _all_ 13xx revisions; we know that conectiva branched sometime before 0.5.508:58
mdz<=0.5.5, that is08:58
Keybukthe changes is probably redundant, because commit would've done the equivalent anyway08:58
mdzhow do I cherry-pick changes with tla?  replay?09:02
Mithrandirmdz: star-merge?09:02
mdzMithrandir: won't that get me everything that came before?09:02
MithrandirI thought not, not if you specify the patch09:03
Keybukreplay blah@blah--blah--blah--patch-99909:04
Keybukwill just apply that one patch09:04
mdzmvo__: I got conflicts in merging your patch-309:05
danielsmdz: yah, replay usage for cherrypicking is on ArchCheatSheet IIRC09:05
mdzmy understanding of tla conflict handling is that now I get to SUFFER09:05
mvo__mdz: sorry for that09:06
danielsmdz: s/conflict handling // and you're starting to get somewhere09:06
mdzmvo__: I don't understand why09:06
mvo__mdz: in what files?09:07
mdzthat changeset should only have 0.5.27->, no?09:07
mdzmvo__: debian/rules09:07
mvo__could it be the "dh_installcron" I added?09:07
mdzmvo__: why would that be part of patch-3?09:07
mdzpatch-3 seems to contain a ton of changes which were not part of 0.5.27->0.5.27-109:07
mdzer, .109:07
mvo__ah, ok. 09:07
mvo__it was 0.5.26->
mvo__tla was at 0.5.26 IIRC09:08
mdzhmm, that's odd09:09
mdzlifeless won't be up yet09:09
mdzbut that sounds like the import is not running09:09
mdzthere is much more in CVS beyond 0.5.2609:09
Keybukon the MAIN trunk?09:12
mdzapt--MAIN--0 has up to 0.5.2609:13
mdzbut there was since a 0.5.27, and is a 0.5.28 in progress09:14
mdznone of which is in arch09:14
mdzit's as if it stopped syncing09:14
Keybuk[DIR]  apt--MAIN--0/             20-Sep-2004 18:37    -   09:14
Keybukdrwxrwsr-x   14 jgg      aptcvs       4096 Nov 10 13:15 apt09:15
Keybukyeah, looks like it09:15
danielsculus commits to apt still?09:16
mdzlifeless: when you wake up ^^^^09:17
mdzdaniels: no09:17
mdzhe owns the directory, though09:17
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Keybuk(file) sk.po (graph)   1.3  7 days  piefel  Updated Slovak from Peter Mann (Closes: #279481)09:17
Keybuk(file) nl.po (graph)   1.13  12 days  piefel  Updated Dutch from Bart Cornelis (Closes: #278697)09:17
Keybukthere's definitely updates since the 20th Sep09:18
=== dnielsen__ [~dnielsen@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybuk0.5.27 predates that though09:18
mdzmvo__: one thing I had consisdered was that some folks might want to check for updates more than once per day09:19
mdze.g., security09:19
mvo__elmo will not like a e.g. 4h cron job I guess09:20
Keybukmvo__: 4 hour cron jobs don't play well with anacron09:20
mvo__mdz: but we can do it of course09:21
Keybukmdz: to me it looks like the APT Arch sync hasn't happened since mid-June09:21
Keybukwhich is odd, because we didn't even start them until August/September, heh09:22
mdzmvo__: do you know how frequently the RH tool checks for updates?09:23
mvo__mdz: no, but I can find out :)09:24
mvo__mdz: the suse default seems to once per night09:35
mdzmvo__: I suppose once/day is sufficient, and we can give them a "check now" menu option if they want to check immediately09:36
mvo__mdz: agreed09:36
mdzmvo__: I sent you email with a few small changes09:36
mvo__mdz: thanks!09:37
Keybukmdz: btw, can I reopen the question of anacron for hoary?09:37
mdzmvo__: I think there is a wishlist bug open against apt for this, if you can find it we can close it :-)09:37
mdzKeybuk: sure, ubuntu-devel@09:37
mvo__mdz: :)09:37
Keybuk* Checking patch-107109:45
Keybuk  - Fuzzy match (6)09:45
Keybukthat looks the absolute closest09:45
Keybuk(for apt-progeny)09:45
mdzKeybuk: what's the fuzz?09:46
Keybukapt-progeny apt--MAIN--0--patch-1071 (fuzzy 6)09:46
Keybukthat's the only result for that one09:46
Keybuk>>> (changed, new, gone, moved) = dirsums.diff(arch_sums, dir_sums)09:48
Keybuk>>> new09:48
Keybuk['doc/fr/manpage.refs', 'doc/manpage.links', 'doc/manpage.log', 'doc/manpage.refs', 'doc/pt_BR/manpage.refs', 'doogie.txt'] 09:48
elmomvo: checking for updates is pretty cheap09:54
=== Keybuk fumes quietly
Keybuk/ $Id: acquire-item.cc,v 1.1 2002/07/23 17:54:50 niemeyer Exp $09:56
mvo__elmo: so we could do a "apt-get update" every say 4h ?10:01
Keybukmvo__: why that regularly?  once a day sounds sufficient to me10:01
elmomvo: I think the servers could cope, yeah10:01
elmojust don't GMT the crontab :)10:02
Keybukwhere's jackass gone?  oh, right, UPDATE TIME!10:02
Keybukmvo__: every 4 hours just sounds a bit "... MUST!HAVE(*$UPDATES!*$*OH YEAH! ..."10:03
Keybukand would be deadly for people on reduced bandwidth, like a modem or GPRS laptop users10:03
mvo__Keybuk: totally agreed 10:03
=== Keybuk votes for cron.daily
elmokeybuk: heh, GPRS laptop users, i.e. you and the other two ;P10:03
Keybukand an "Update Now" button for the obsessed10:03
Keybukelmo: heh, it works pretty well :p10:03
mvo__Keybuk: the update intervall is a config option anyway10:04
Keybukmvo__: how does it do it?10:04
mvo__Keybuk: it basicly write a "stamp" file that is checked then10:04
Keybukyou need to be root to run apt-get update ... so how do you elevate ?10:04
mvo__Keybuk: the cron-job will be part of apt and run as root10:05
mvo__for the "update now", we will run it with gksudo10:05
Keybukright ... can we not have an ordinary cron job please?10:05
Keybukunless it checks on_ac_power10:06
mvo__Keybuk: you think "apt-get update" takes too much power?10:06
Keybukmvo__: it'll spin all the disks up10:06
Keybukso yes10:06
Keybuk"all the disks", heh10:06
Keybuk"the disk"10:06
mvo__is there a easy way to find out if we are on power? 10:07
jdubRAID-5 in your HP? :)10:07
KeybukI'm assuming we're shipping this with "off" as the default anyway?10:08
mvo__Keybuk: correct10:08
mvo__unless you install "upgrade-notifer" that turns it into "once per day"10:08
mvo__I'll add the "on_ac_power" check10:08
jdubjdub@lazarus:~ $ on_ac_power10:08
jdubjdub@lazarus:~ $ echo $?10:08
jdub^ expected result on a desktop machine?10:09
mvo__jdub: same here :)10:09
Keybukjdub: yeah, you check $? -eq 1 for a laptop on battery10:09
Keybukcf. /etc/init.d/anacron10:09
danielson_ac_power returns 1 on my batteried x4010:10
jdubKeybuk: nice10:10
Keybukmvo__: I still vote for just sticking it in cron.daily personally10:10
mvo__Keybuk: that's the current plan10:11
mvo__I was just asking for opionions for the alternatives :)10:11
Keybukthat way it'll be deferred correctly if laptop users have anacron installed10:11
mvo__out of curiosity, does cron.hourly behave sane too?10:12
jdubdo we run anacron on acpi ac plugin events?10:12
Keybukjdub: anacron isn't in main, cf. ubuntu-devel10:12
Keybukmdz has a wishy-washy dislike for it *ducks&runs* :p10:12
jdubmean does anacron10:13
Keybukjdub: it adds an /etc/apm/event.d thing, not ACPI10:13
Keybukthom could add -x /usr/sbin/anacron && /etc/init.d/anacron stop/start thing to acpi-support though10:13
jdubso when i plug in, upgrade-notifier should say "you have updates, powered one!"10:13
Keybukjdub: yup10:14
Keybukmvo__: is the notification icon going to sit in the panel being annoying, or just appear when there are updates?10:15
mvo__it will only appear if updates are available10:15
mvo__and vanish once you installed them10:15
Keybukcan it download the .debs and put them in /var/cache/apt/archives while it waits for you to get around to clicking it? :p10:16
mvo__yes, it's pretty nice I think. it listens to dbus events and will update it's status if it gets them10:17
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thomit's actually a _notification_ *shock*10:27
thombut yes, only running anacron when on battery would seem reasonable10:27
danielsheh.  having local xorg debs does you wonders: Need to get 15.5MB/174MB of archives.10:28
mdzKeybuk: looks like a CVS vs. tarball diff10:29
elmowhat's the equivalent of .xinitrc for a gnome session ?10:29
mdzKeybuk: (apt)10:29
mdzelmo: ~/.gnome2/session10:29
mdzcomputer->desktop preferences->sessions is the preferred way to edit it10:30
lamont_rlibxklavier...  missing build-deps, sadly10:30
elmomdz: mmk10:31
lamont_relmo: is the unknown section stuff something that I could help figure out?10:31
thommdz: thanks for doing the initial ZDHW wiki page10:33
elmoif you move the top panel to the right, you get fist-size super-blurry icons10:35
thomit's a FEATCHUR10:35
elmolamont: not really - I know what it is - I'll have another ago in a bit - I just need to finish migrating my desktop to gnome proper10:36
daniels'yeah, a Big Mac meal thanks' 'would you like small, large, or FIST?'10:36
lamont_relmo: I know that productivity bump too well - wasn't too long ago that I did it myself... :-(10:36
elmoso.. I really don't want to give up gkrellm.. is there anyway to integrate this thing somehow?10:37
mdzthere are various applets which should fulfill the same basic control freak needs10:40
mjg59thom: Uh, only running anacron when on battery?10:40
elmomdz: nah I've tried them on my laptop - they suck10:41
elmobut then the laptop doesn't have the res to justify gkrellm over them10:41
thomum, um. i know what i mean :-)10:42
thommjg59: ^10:44
danielsmjg59: by the way, have you ever noticed how insanely, stupidly, slow mode switches are on i810?10:46
mjg59daniels: Video mode switches? Nope.10:46
danielsmjg59: when I start another Xorg instance (with -novtswitch, mind), changing over to the other VT takes a good seven seconds10:47
danielsmjg59: and about five seconds for subsequent switches10:47
danielsmjg59: that's same res/depth10:47
mjg59How long from X to console?10:47
lamont_relmo: gkrellm looks cool.. thanks for mentioning it.10:47
danielsmdz: AH! that was it10:47
danielsmdz: would you be happy with a default dhclient policy of 'don't set a hostname'?10:47
danielsmdz: (or, 'leave the hostname alone')10:48
mdzKeybuk: so is that all that lifeless will need to set up the import?10:48
mjg59It's damn cold here tonight10:48
danielsmdz: i'm currently unsure whether ?dms will survive a hostname change (the authentication stuff on that side of the world is crack, planning to go test by fire when I get kicked out here in 10min), so that would allow us to start gdm before dhclient fo'sho10:48
lamont_rdaniels: ew!10:48
danielslamont_r: *shrug*, getting hostnames via DHCP in anything other than the initial setup is crack anyway imo10:49
lamont_rdaniels: what you need isa 'change my hostname' event for X, eh?10:49
=== herzi [~herzi@d016049.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielslamont_r: ha ha10:49
lamont_rdaniels: true - and really should be trying to give dhcp a hostname10:49
danielslamont_r: oh man10:49
danielslamont_r: as in, killall Xorg && Xorg?10:49
mdzdaniels: hmm, I didn't even remember that it would do that10:49
mdzdaniels: yes, I think it's sane to default to leaving it alone10:49
Keybukmdz: for apt-progeny, yes ... if he starts it there and imports following all the hundreds of copies they did, it'll go in10:50
danielsmdz: ill, thanks10:50
lamont_rdaniels: no, no.  without killing - just "fix everything" :)10:50
danielsmdz: i'll give it a going over tonight10:50
Keybukmdz: apt-rpm will come up shortly, once sed has finished stripping all the $Id...$ from everything :p10:50
Keybukrookery is my bitch <g>10:50
lamont_rKeybuk: so that's why it's been dog slow lately.10:50
danielslamont_r: sure, but when I emerge, you can buy me a beer, because I'll be of legal drinking age in the US10:50
danielsmdz: -novtswitch is done, btw10:50
lamont_rthat's what, 6 years from now? :-)10:51
danielsmdz: oh wait, I already told you10:51
danielslamont_r: ease up ;) half that10:51
KosaiHm.  Any plans for a PPC live CD?10:54
thomwe'd love one. thanks ;-) 10:54
danielsthom: triple play!10:56
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sjoerddaniels: with the latest xorg debs, using usefb = false and usefwpll = true works11:12
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mdzthom: when are you coming through LA, again?  do you want to send me a copy of your itinerary?11:27
thommdz: sure, will ping it you now11:28
thomi think you're out of la for most of the time i'm there, but lets see :-)11:29
lifelessmdz: pong11:34
lifelessah, apt syncing, let me look into that right now.11:34
thommdz: biff11:34
elmothom/mdz: mozilla-firefox-locale-es has been removed in debian - ok to remove it from hoary/main ?11:38
thomelmo: seems reasonable to me11:39
mdzelmo: yeah, update the seed as well11:39
elmomdz: gar, fascist11:40
mdzelmo: pinko11:40
elmooh, well, I guess I can repropose all the the stuff I'm still using from universe11:42
thomelmo: just don't get ideas about whacky GREEN TERMINALS, retro boy! ;-)11:44
elmothom: meh, you're just jealous of my hardcore old skool skillz11:46
thomold skool rapping skillz, maybe11:46
bob2MC ELMO11:48
thomshoutin' out to the L3 massive!11:50
elmothom: I'm pretty sure those guys in the cage next to us are entirely convinced I'm insane - esp. when I really did start shouting at and physically abusing that broken green cat5 the other week11:51
thomelmo: yeah, we do get some massively funny looks when they have sun engineers in the house11:52
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