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thomARGH, the poxy wiki doesn't even let me use my back button usefully12:14
bob2I hope it overrides it with telepathic javascript12:15
thommdz: uh, dude. you keep leaving markup warnings in your trail12:19
mdzthom: only when I lose my mind and decide to try ReST again12:29
mdzI changed back to moin immediately after12:29
thomyeah, ReST is pretty crackadelic12:32
mdzlifeless: any luck with apt?12:32
mdzthom: if the markup requires warnings to get it right, it's too unforgiving12:33
thomnod. esp it seems very space sensitive, and to have useless warnings12:34
thomI just fixed WikiToDo12:34
thommdz: so are we in LA at the same time at all?12:35
mdzoh, I broke that one too?12:35
mdzthom: yes, we don't leave until the 16th12:35
mdzthom: where are you staying?12:35
thomyep, only one space rather than two on the indented bullet point12:35
thommdz: the thursday night before Vegas, i'm in Irvine - staying with a friend at UCI12:36
lifelessmdz: yah, correcting it at the moment, bug in the 'taxi'.12:36
mdzthom: hmm, that's not so close, but maybe we can arrange something12:36
thommdz: but note i'm there for literally one day only before i head to Vegas, and then don't get back till the 17th :/12:37
mdzthom: might also be some overlap before you leave as well; we're thinking of returning on the 21st (sunday)12:37
thomah, cool12:37
mdzanother day or so12:37
thomthat might work out better, i'm planning to be more central for that12:38
mdzmy address is in the wiki so you can get your bearings12:38
thomthanks :-)12:42
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jblackmdz: You were looking for me last night? 01:05
mdzjblack: was looking for some arch help; I got straightened out, though01:06
mdzjblack: I sent a couple of bugs your way, unsure whether they were already addressed in baz01:07
jblackOk. You know how to reach me if I'm not on tty? 01:07
mdzyou don't seem to be on jabber01:07
jblackPhone works, as does a short message to jblackphone@linuxguru.net, which will sms me01:08
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=== jdub changes jblack's bugzilla addres...
jblackjdub: Pardon? Isn't my bugzilla address jblack@gnuarch.org? That should be appropriate to bugzilla.01:16
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hypa7iathom, if you're around, networkmonitor ate my wifi connection.  removing it got me back online, but i was wondering if any of my logs would be of interest to you01:36
thomdaemon.log please01:36
hypa7iathom: http://pastebin.com/11875201:40
hypa7iait seems to mostly look like that01:40
thomyeah, that looks pretty familiar :/01:41
thomi've seen NM break most ways it can recently01:41
hypa7iathe errno-19's are from me unloading and reloading my ipw2200 drivers01:41
=== hypa7ia nods
thomi need to push updated packages, that might happen when i get to LA01:42
hypa7iafor now i'm just using wifi-radar for scanning.  it's quite nice.01:42
hypa7iaand python :-)01:42
thomNM will be much cooler when it gets stable01:43
thomit has a nasty habit of turning encryption on and then segfaulting here01:43
hypa7iawhoot, lookin forward to it.  and to my drivers maturing and all :-)01:43
chrisaDoes NM work with odd driver sets like linux-wlan-ng?01:43
jdub$ ./universe01:43
chrisaI still consider linux-wlan-ng the devil, but I need to use it for one device01:43
jdub \01:44
jdubfew of those will be resolved with hoary proposals :)01:44
thomchrisa: it uses libiw (wireless tools) so if linux-wlan-ng plays well with that, then it'll be fine01:44
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mdzwhat's the deal with gpdf?01:44
mdzwill we be able to move to it for hoary?01:44
thomif it doesn't. you're SOL right now01:44
=== jdub removes the gtkhtml/gal mess
jdubmdz: pretty sure01:44
=== thom goes to bed
chrisathom: oh well, SOL seems to be the general linux-wlan use case01:45
jdubthom: oh, had a look at g-u-s much?01:45
thomjdub: not at all really, too many things going on01:46
mdzmizar:[~]  universe |wc -l01:46
thomi have the tarball on my laptop, might take a look on the plane01:46
Kamionsomebody wanna fix the libxklavier build failure please? should just be a matter of s/xlibs-static-dev/libxkbfile-dev/ in the build-deps01:47
jdubmdz: oof. my main warty machine is pushing 85.01:48
jdubi'm sure there's crap there tho.01:48
jdubKamion: will do01:48
mdzjdub: 51 after cleaning up random crap01:48
mdzprobably about half those from gnucash01:48
hypa7iathanks for lookin at my logs thom :-)01:50
thomno worries, sorry there's no magic fix01:51
hypa7iano worries, good to know i wasn't just goin nuts :-)01:51
Kamionanyone mind if I put ntfstools-udeb in the installer seed?01:53
Kamionthen partman will be able to do ntfsresize01:53
thomhypa7ia: going? a bit late for that...01:53
Kamionalthough I notice it's already in hoary main01:54
jdubKamion: do we feel comfortable supporting that?01:54
hypa7ialol, yeah, i guess i am running linux after all :-p01:54
hypa7iahttp://ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54 <-- like that01:54
Kamionjdub: a lot more comfortable than I feel not supporting it01:55
jdubi'd be happy to test it :)01:55
Kamionit's far enough up on the list of warty installer gripes that I can't see it from here due to the cloud formations in the way01:55
Kamionok, committed01:56
thomjdub: dude, you need to spank jaq next time you see him for that blocker severity firefox bug01:58
jdubhe filed a blocker?01:58
jdubit's faster to load the my bugs page than the new bugs page02:00
thomyou don't have to download the javascript widget of death02:00
jdub(jaq's bug, that is)02:01
jdub(well, ok, so the javascript widget of death is also bong)02:01
thomi really, *really* hope that they don't keep breaking profiles in >1.002:02
jdub(but that one doesn't leap out of a cake wearing a pink tutu yelling "surprise!")02:02
chrisaI'm rather tired of upgrading firefox and being greeted with xul errors with download dialogs and such02:08
jdubmdz: http://www.user-mode-linux.org/~blaisorblade/patches/host-skas3-2.6.9-v7.patch02:08
jdubmdz: is this a happy new version?02:09
bob2chrisa: that will happen if you don't restart it after the upgrade02:09
chrisabob2: Then I withdraw my previous statement... for the most part02:09
mdzjdub: his patches are generally solid02:10
mdzjdub: that's still the v3 never-going-upstream interface, though02:10
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elmothe one thing I'm missing in metacity from wmaker is the ability to <modifier>+drag to resize - is it possible to do that at all in metacity?03:46
KeybukFrom: Scott James Remnant <scott@canonical.com>03:48
KeybukSubject: Accepted hotplug 0.0.20040329-16ubuntu1 (source)03:48
Keybukgpg: Signature made Thu 11 Nov 2004 01:26:55 GMT using DSA key ID 43E25D1E03:48
Keybukgpg: Good signature from "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@alcor.net>"03:48
Keybukgpg:                 aka "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@debian.org>"03:48
Keybukgpg:                 aka "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@csh.rit.edu>"03:48
KeybukI was starting to wonder whether I'd fallen asleep and some schitzophrenic side of me had started uploading packages03:49
jdubmjg59: dude03:52
jdubmjg59: http://lwn.net/Articles/110345/03:52
jdubelmo: alt-shift, innit?03:52
jdubelmo: don't think so, unless i've missed something03:53
elmojdub: doh, oh well03:55
elmoI'll stop trying by reflex eventually :)03:55
Keybukelmo: Alt+Middle drag04:06
jdubthat's surprisingly hard to do with 3rd button emulation on a trackpad04:08
Keybukjdub: can't you two-finger it?04:09
jdubyeah, but that's a three-handed move ;)04:09
jdub(to actually resize as well as hold the mouse buttons and alt)04:09
jduboh, i can do alt with a finger, and the two buttons with a thumb04:10
Keybuktwo buttons?04:10
KeybukI mean just tap-drag on the pad with two fingers04:10
jduboh, i turn that off04:10
jdubnot a big fan of trackpad clickies04:10
Keybukreally?  I like my silly gestures04:10
jdubsynclient TapButton1=0 TapButton2=0 TapButton3=0 UpDownScrolling=0 VertScrollDelta=0 HorizScrollDelta=0 04:11
jdub^ i have that in my session ;)04:11
Keybukheh, I just have it at the defaults but with  Option  "LockedDrags"  "false"04:13
Keybukin my xorg.conf04:13
jdub"The structures that the chip drivers use to specify which04:13
jdubaddresses they support has been shrunk, as a step toward moving them to04:13
jdubuse the hotplug interfaces for autoloading.04:13
jdub^ i2c04:13
KeybukHardware diversity testing: get those Sounders going! Sounder launch Monday 08/0904:46
Keybukshouldn't that be "Arrays" ?04:46
jdub'array' :)04:52
Keybukjdub: ping?05:18
Keybukout of interest, which set of font rendering do you prefer?05:19
jdubi use unhinted aa + subpixel rendering on my lappy05:21
Keybukwhich looks roughly like the two sets of windows on the left?05:21
jdubgo into details and set it unhinted05:21
jdubout of your two, the one on the left is preferable05:22
Keybukdo you have the freetype autohinter on or off?05:22
Keybukugh ... I set the hinting to off and everything just went blurry and nasty05:23
=== Keybuk switches it back on quick <g>
chrisaI don't like the yellowish glow the right picture has05:23
Keybukjdub: I'm not sure which I prefer ... with a CRT the right set is *far* preferable05:23
Keybukbut with the LCD, I'm actually a little temped by the left set05:24
chrisaYou prefer the right on a CRT? Looks cruddy here05:24
jdubthe shapes and spacing looks better in the left one05:24
Keybukchrisa: that image will look cruddy on a CRT whatever you do -- it's subpixel rendered :p05:24
jdubi am looking at this on both crt and lcd :)05:24
chrisasidenote, that's a peculiar wallpaper05:25
=== jdub was just about to say 'power to the boypaper'
jdubmove the fricken window...05:26
Keybuknah, I hate to say it, but I definitely prefer the font rendering on the right05:27
Keybukthe left just looks ... wavy05:28
Keybukdunno, it's hard to define05:28
Keybukbut to me, the set on the right, *especially* Monospace just looks more solid05:29
jdubmust be if you're pussyfooting around with words like 'wavy'05:29
jdubyes, agree on monospace05:29
jdubturn hinting off! :)05:29
nasdaq4088arafat is dead05:30
Keybukthat just looks *terrible*05:31
jdublovely :-)05:32
Keybukjdub: it looks like a TV picture in a thunderstorm05:32
Keybukwith the aerial pointing the wrong way05:32
Keybukso you're getting the BBC by bouncing off your neighbour's car's window, and the thunder-head05:32
jdubwell, i like hairless chested men too, dude, but that's no reason to be rude05:33
=== Keybuk likes his hinting on :)
Keybuk"The controller stated that he had forgotten that he had given take off clearance to G-SMTJ (the Airbus) when he subsequently cleared EI-CJI (the Boeing) to cross the runway."05:40
mdzheh, thom is on his way to the airport-o-doom05:46
mdzAn animation of the near disaster shows Asiana Airlines flight 204 -- a boeing 747 -- approaching the airport for landing, when the control tower cleared Southwest Airlines flight 440 -- a boeing 737 -- for preparation to take off on the same runway.06:04
bob2as long as they're heading in the same direction06:07
pascthey would be06:09
pascyou take off and land in the same direction, and as confusius said "he who lands with wind up ass ends with rock in head"06:11
fabbionemorning guys06:23
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hornbeckhello skyrider07:29
hornbeckyou a doc writer?07:32
skyriderdo, sorry07:35
hornbeckahh, doc reader?07:36
hornbeckinterested in becoming a doc writer?07:36
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skyrideryes :)07:38
hornbeckyou joined the wiki yet?07:38
skyriderbut I'm only fluent in Russian language07:38
hornbeckwe need translator's07:38
skyriderI'm already joined the wiki07:39
hornbeckI just relized I was not in #ubuntu-doc :-)07:40
hornbeckman I am tired07:40
hornbeckwe do need help with translations though07:40
skyriderhornbeck: :)07:40
skyriderlet's switch to ubuntu-doc. OK?07:41
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pittiMorning everybody!07:51
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thommdz: thanks for that quote earlier... make me feel good about my choice of destinations :P08:07
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=== sid77 ciao
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pittiHi mvo_ !09:37
mvo_hi pitti 09:37
pittielmo: can you please sync libgd2 from sid?09:37
danielssjoerd: awesome09:42
sjoerddaniels: dualhead doesn't work though, always claims there are no valid modes09:43
sjoerdmorning btw :)09:43
pittiHi sjoerd09:44
danielssjoerd: weird09:45
danielssjoerd: but morning!09:45
danielssjoerd: by dualhead, I take it you mean 09:46
danielsstandard LCD and VGA out09:46
sjoerddaniels: yup09:46
danielsah, bong09:47
danielsplease file a bug and I'll look into it09:47
sjoerdis there a chance that dvi works ? there is currently a dvi screen in my neighbourhood :)09:47
danielsit might work, it might not ;) give it a shot09:47
thomhrm, i should try dualhead again when i get back09:58
thomi cheated and used fglrx last time09:58
sjoerdexactly the same error09:58
calci have dualhead sort of setup on a 9600 both output plugging into the same monitor, heh10:02
danielsthom: boo fglrx10:04
=== sjoerd acquires a bugzilla account
calcwhat is it hard to setup dual head on some radeons?10:05
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mvo_daniels: why does X answers "false" or XSupportsLocale()" when I set LANG to e.g. "de_DE.UTF-8" ?10:19
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sjoerddaniels: there is no xserver-xorg component yet in bugzilla, is that a problem ?10:24
pittielmo: can you please sync libgd1394 from sid as well?10:25
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danielssjoerd: not massively.  i've already asked for the component list to be synced, so it should happen soon enough.10:27
danielsmvo_: if you could tell me, I'll buy you a beer in Mataro.10:27
sjoerddaniels: should i wait for that or can i just file it now10:27
danielssjoerd: just file it now, i think there's an 'xorg' component10:28
sjoerdah, yes indeed.. filing against xorg then10:29
bitserfhi, is this the right place to report bugs not in bugzilla or mailing list? (before filing bugzilla report)10:35
bitserfdid an upgrade to hoary from warty, somehow the gamin dep never got pulled down, causing all kinds of strange errors ('unable to connect to gam_server')10:36
thomdo you have ubuntu-desktop installed?10:37
bitserfinteresting, wonder how that got dropped10:37
thomnot a bug, then :-)10:37
bitserfsorry for the false alarm, then10:37
thomno problem10:37
bitserfoh, right. i installed totem-xine, it kills ubuntu-desktop10:38
thommjg59: running ntpdate in the resume script might not be a bad idea10:39
azeemif upgrades from warty to hoary loosely depend on ubuntu-desktop being around (is that the case?), wouldn't it make sense to consider adding totem-gstreamer | totem-xine to ubuntu-desktop?10:41
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elmopitti: err, I assume you mean libdc1394, not libgd1394 ?10:47
elmopitti: libgd2 done10:47
pittielmo: argh, yes10:47
pittielmo: thanks10:47
pittielmo: can you please also sync dbus and jigit?10:48
elmopitti: done10:48
pittielmo: all four? thanks10:48
danielspitti: he's a syncing machine10:50
pittidaniels: I hope he has a good script for it10:51
elmosyncing's as easy as 'lorraine -f $pkg1 $pkg2[...] '10:53
elmo(-f, --force)10:53
elmoI'm semi-tempted to make it invokable from chinstrap by the distro team or something, but the sync rate isn't high enough to bother yet10:54
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mjg59thom: Probably makes more sense to do hwclock --hctosys11:51
thommjg59: or that11:51
mjg59If they're running ntpd, it ought to sort things out11:52
thomone way or another, the time needs to be reset11:52
thommjg59: hoary won't be by default11:52
mjg59ntpdate doesn't seem ideal - it'd need to be backgrounded, and if it is then it might reply after X has come back and suddenly xscreensaver will come on again11:53
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RubenVanyone here from the laptop team?11:58
thomhwclock seems like a reasonable solution11:58
thomi was just throwing out thoughts whilst packing11:58
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RubenVI'd like to help out improving the support for Dell inspiron 860011:58
RubenVI have a hoary one and my sister is running warthy, so I'm able to do a little testing 11:59
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mjg59RubenV: What sort of support would you like to test?12:16
Kamionmdz: confused; if you remove the -2.6- metapackages, how are linux-headers-* supposed to end up on the CD?12:17
Kamionmdz: (right now, they don't; this is a bug)12:17
Kamionhm, just need to fix the seeds I think12:19
RubenVmjg59: well, anything needed to improve the use experience on my laptop12:20
RubenVmaybe suspend or something, but i don't want to lose my work12:20
RubenVI'm an IT student but it should be possible to squeeze out some time between the studying12:21
RubenVfor now, suspend doesn't work, but that's more nvidia's fault i think12:22
mjg59RubenV: Can you take a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001135.html ?12:25
Kamionmdz: seeds fixed, I think12:26
RubenVjust read it half an hour ago12:26
RubenVi'll try it out today12:26
RubenVafter a backup that is :)12:27
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mjg59Hrm. The state of the sound drivers with respect to suspend/resume is fairly shocking.01:02
danielsmjg59: yah, some seem to need alsactl power off/alsactl power on01:02
mjg59What do people feel the best way of dealing with this would be? We can refuse to suspend if there are any applications using the sound device, we can kill any sound-using applications, we can try to fix the drivers...01:03
mjg59daniels: That doesn't seem to be sufficient01:03
danielsmjg59: wow, arse01:03
mjg59daniels: I'm already doing that in those scripts - the craptop (for one) then breaks horribly if esd happens to be talking to the device at the time01:04
mjg59Well, it comes back with esd in D state and anything that tries to play a sound (like, say, THE ENTIRE DESKTOP) then dies01:05
robtaylormjg59: are the problems in a number of individual drivers or in the alsa generic code?01:05
mjg59Hard to tell.01:07
mjg59The errors I get on more than one machine are from the ac97 code, but that could just mean that the ac97 code isn't hearing what it expected from the hardware01:08
mjg59The easy thing to do with respect to the hardware would be to unload and reload the modules, but that'll break stuff01:08
mjg59(like anything that's using sound)01:08
mjg59Oh, hang on - is there a way to tell esd to stop accessing the hardware?01:08
mjg59There is, isn't there. Hmm.01:09
mjg59Then we just need to enforce accesses through esound.01:09
robtaylormjg59: even is there was, that'd only help with esd using apps ;)01:09
mjg59robtaylor: Screw em.01:09
mjg59Everything we ship in supported ought to be using esd (or whatever sound server we actually ship)01:10
=== robtaylor goes and looks at the ac97 code..
mjg59robtaylor: Current situation is that I call alsactl power foo off in suspend and power foo on in resume01:10
robtaylormjg59: is athere a partiuclat reason the alsa stuff cant use pm_callbacks?01:11
mjg59robtaylor: Oh, it probably /does/ - but there's the weird alsactl interface as well01:13
mjg59Oh. FFS.01:14
mjg59esdctl suspend suspends esd, which then seems to make esd-using clients very unhappy01:14
mjg59They just start outputting very, very quickly to nothing01:15
mjg59Rather than doing the sane thing and blocking01:15
mjg59Whereas kill -STOPing esd does the right thing, but doesn't release the device01:16
mjg59What sound server are we going to be using for Hoary?01:17
robtaylormjg59: what chipset is the craptop you're working on? 01:19
mjg59via ac97 thing01:19
robtaylorhmm, the drivers supsend/reusme code seems sane..01:21
robtaylorwhat happens without alsactl?01:21
mjg59Hrm. Dunno - must check.01:22
robtaylorcould be a plan..01:24
mjg59polypaudio has no way to suspend and resume itself01:26
mjg59And it binds to /dev/dsp forever01:29
mjg59What a piece of shit01:29
Kamionmjg59: polypaudio, I *think*01:30
mjg59Kamion: Looks like it'll need some work, then...01:31
Kamionnot encouraging that it's a POS :)01:31
mjg59Oh, it's probably fine for what it does01:31
mjg59It's just lacking in functionality01:31
mjg59jdub: Dude, why does polypaudio-x11 have no binaries in it?01:32
robtaylormjg59: the in-kernel supsend/reusme code seems to switch the state between SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D0 /* full On */ and  SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D3hot /* Off, with power */ so i guess you should only use alsactl power if you need to use any other than these two states01:41
robtaylorand i guess you should check the drivers gone to power off hot before you go to power off cold, etc..01:42
robtaylorok ignore that ;)01:43
robtaylormjg59: hmm01:59
robtaylor       case SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D3cold:01:59
robtaylor                if (card->power_state != power_state)01:59
robtaylor                        /* FIXME: pass the correct state value */01:59
robtaylor                        card->pm_suspend(card, 0);01:59
robtaylor                break;01:59
mjg59Nothing actually tries to pass D3cold as far as I know, though01:59
robtaylorhmm, i guess a suspend to disk should probably do that  *shrug*02:01
robtaylorno suspend handlers seem to look at the state, so i guess that FIXME's pretty irrelevent02:03
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RubenVmjg59: your 2.6.9 kernel doesn't boot on my laptop02:13
RubenVor not in a way i'm used to ;)02:13
mjg59Uh. Weird02:14
mjg59How so?02:14
RubenVwhen grub loads the kernel02:14
RubenVand it switches to fb02:14
RubenVthe screen blanks02:14
RubenVand nothing gets outputted anymore02:14
RubenV(even if i omit the quiet & splash parameters)02:14
mjg59Hmm. It doesn't have any framebuffer support compiled in - they're all modules02:14
mjg59Oh, were you using vesafb?02:15
RubenVif vesa is the default, yes ;)02:15
mjg59Do you have a video= argument on your kernel command line?02:16
RubenVvga=792, that's all i have02:16
mjg59Can you get rid of that?02:17
RubenVkopt=root=/dev/hda3 ro nolapic vga=795 resume=/dev/hda102:17
RubenVrest should be ok02:17
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RubenVwell, it boots02:24
RubenVnvidia certainly doesn't work anymore (but i expected that)02:24
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RubenVthis is weird: it does some kind of suspend thing (except that everything breaks when resuming)02:29
RubenVand the odd thing is: video comes back in stretched mode02:30
RubenVi disable video expension because it looks horrible :)02:30
mjg59RubenV: What do you mean by some kind of suspend thing?02:33
RubenVit starts suspend etc (got logs), flashes for a few seconds and ends up on a blank vt02:34
RubenValt F1 brings me back home02:34
Kamionhm, arse, base-config throws a spurious error02:43
Kamionbut installs successfully nevertheless02:43
KamionFRESH ZORG02:43
danielsKamion: fresh stylez02:43
danielsKamion: you be a true playa, homie02:43
=== daniels flashes various incomprehensible signs at Kamion.
=== Kamion gives daniels a hoodie and pats him on the head
danielsKamion: i'm wearing a hoodie right now, dude02:45
danielsbecause I am in the hood02:45
Kamionoh dear02:45
Kamionsod it, though, I'll probably release this as Array CD 1 if everything else works, and just release-note the bug02:45
danielswhat's the b-c error?02:46
Kamioncan't remove laptop-detect, 'cos fontconfig depends on it02:46
fabbionedon't we need laptop-detect?02:46
Kamionit used to be that we only needed it during installation02:47
Kamionif you want it, depend on it02:47
fabbioneKamion: hmmmm but fontconfig uses it to detect if we are on lcd or not02:47
Kamionyes, well, we won't be removing it any more, will we now? :)02:48
Kamionseeing as we can't02:48
mjg59RubenV: Hmm. Could you mail me dmesg after it fails to suspend?02:50
RubenVto what address?02:51
Mithrandirit just feels wrong that fontconfig should depend on laptop-detect.02:55
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=== sid77 re
mjg59RubenV: mjg59@srcf.ucam.org02:59
RubenVgonna retest it02:59
RubenVto make sure i have the right dmesg :)02:59
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RubenVmjg59: you've got mail03:10
mjg59RubenV: Thanks!03:12
RubenVlet me know if you need more info or if I should try something03:14
RubenVwhen i tried suspending on 2.6.8 yesterday, i had to unload my ehci_hcd (which isn't used anyway) before it did anything03:14
mjg59RubenV: Hmm. Ok - what does /proc/swaps say?03:15
mjg59And /proc/cmdline ?03:15
RubenVimmediately after suspending?03:15
RubenVor just in general03:15
mjg59In general03:15
RubenV*phew* no reboot then ;)03:16
RubenVlemme see03:16
RubenVroot=/dev/hda3 ro nolapic resume=/dev/hda1 quiet splash03:16
RubenVFilename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority03:17
RubenV/dev/hda1                               partition       995988  0       -103:17
tim1there are 10+ package updates per day at hoary, to anybody who is responsible for that:03:17
tim1thank you very much :)03:17
KamionDAILY CRACK03:18
RubenVif only i knew how to build em, i'd make it 11+ ;)03:18
danielsKamion: LOVE THE CRACK03:18
tim1it says "never change a running system", but whent apt is smiling at me ..03:19
=== RubenV comes from using portage
RubenVapt is much more mature03:20
RubenVlove it03:20
RubenVand a gazillion time faster in dep calculation etc03:20
Kamionmvo_: Ubuntu-specific updates should get "XubuntuY" version numbers rather than ""03:21
robtaylorfeel the apt love03:21
mjg59RubenV: Ok, looks like one of your devices is failing to suspend03:22
mjg59RubenV: Could you possibly try booting using init=/bin/bash and then run /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh ?03:22
RubenVskipping the entire bootsequence and suspending right away?03:23
RubenVi'll do it in a sec :)03:23
mjg59RubenV: Yeah03:23
mjg59If that suspends and resumes, then we just need to figure out which of your devices is failing...03:23
RubenVwill get lspci output too then03:24
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=== sid77 re
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bob2is the usb<->suspend nexus of fuckage a hardware or driver bug?03:31
mjg59bob2: Which one?03:33
mjg59RubenV: ?03:33
RubenVi just notice that the dmesg i just grabbed doesn't have any suspend output03:33
bob2mjg59: hm, it seems everyone with working suspend has to unload the host controller modules first03:33
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mvo_hi Micksa 03:33
RubenVit however, did do something that looked like a suspend03:33
mvo_hi Mitario 03:33
Mitariohi :)03:34
=== mvo_ still hates xchat's tab-completion
RubenVbob2: you mean ehci_hcd which causes the suspend to abort?03:34
=== Mitario still hates xchat
mjg59RubenV: It saved stuff to disk?03:34
mvo_Mitario: what do you use?03:34
mjg59bob2: That's less true in 2.6.903:34
bob2RubenV: for example03:34
Mitariomvo_, chat ;)03:34
Mitarioehm, xchat03:34
RubenVmjg59: after suspending, I remounted / rw03:34
RubenVand did a dmesg > dmesg-minimal-boot in my homedir03:35
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mvo_Mitario: hehe03:35
mjg59RubenV: It resumed back to the same state that you'd left it?03:35
RubenVmaybe i should've grabbed the output of the hibernate script03:35
RubenVmjg59: it instantly woke up again03:35
RubenVdon't know if it even suspended03:35
mjg59RubenV: Ah - was /proc mounted?03:35
mjg59And /sys?03:36
RubenVgonna give i another go03:36
RubenVafaik they were mounted03:36
mjg59Sorry, should have said03:36
RubenVbut i'm gonna verify it again03:36
mjg59They won't be by default with init=/bin/bash03:36
RubenV(i checked mount and they did show up, i think)03:36
RubenVanyway, second try ;)03:36
KamionI doubt that'll be reliable03:36
mjg59RubenV: Yeah, mtab won't have been rewritten at that stage03:36
mjg59RubenV: Hang on a sec03:36
mjg59RubenV: Can I give you a new kernel with extra debugging to try?03:36
RubenVright, ro fs03:37
Kamionyou need to 'mount /proc' and then check /proc/mounts to see what's *actually* mounted03:37
RubenVoh, I'm on reiserfs03:37
=== [Clint] is now known as ClintWORK
RubenVplease make sure it's in there ;)03:37
Kamioninitrd, dude :)03:37
mjg59RubenV: Can you get http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/bzImage and copy it over the /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.9-1-386 file?03:37
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mjg59RubenV: Heh. Hang on, just copying it over03:38
mjg59RubenV: Ok, there now03:39
RubenVgaaah, i can't wait to throw away this ndis wlan03:39
RubenVwgetting :)03:39
RubenVgonna reboot that one03:40
RubenVmount proc & sys03:40
RubenVand grab all output i can find03:40
mjg59RubenV: If you could try that one in a fully booted state, that would be better03:40
mjg59It'll output information about the devices it's trying to suspend03:40
RubenVwell, fully booted is not quite possible since X won't work03:40
RubenVbut almost is as good als fully :)03:41
=== RubenV out
=== ClintWORK is now known as [Clint]
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Mitariomvo_, what's the status on the arch repos? :)03:47
mvo_we have no mechanism to have a centralized arch repos ATM. we either need to develop with two different arch branches and merge them back03:48
mvo_or I can ask for a svn repo again03:48
=== Mitario would go for the later option
RubenVmjg59: u got mail again :)03:49
Mitariomvo_ shall I request one? or do you want to do it?03:49
mvo_I will ask gustavo again for it03:50
mjg59RubenV: Thanks, just waiting for it to show up03:50
Mitariook, thanks03:50
mjg59RubenV: Hmm. Surprising.03:52
mvo_Mitario: asked gustavo03:52
mvo_will probably take some hours03:52
Mitariook, np03:52
danielsmvo_: um, you do know about pqm, right?03:52
danielsmvo_: and if you want centraliesd arch, you can use it -- myself and fabio are and it works fine03:53
danielsjust like svn.  we both check out from, and commit to, the same repo03:53
mjg59RubenV: Your devices all seem to suspend correctly03:53
mvo_daniels: but it's only possible for people with chinstrap accounts, correct?03:53
mvo_and Mitario does not have one ...03:54
danielsmvo_: ah, right03:54
Kamionmvo_: you can always create your own03:54
RubenVmjg59: very strange03:54
RubenVgonna give it another go03:55
mjg59RubenV: So it's failing somewhere else. Let me try to track down the code it calls next...03:55
RubenVthis time prepending hibernate with sleep 303:55
mvo_Kamion: my own pqm? what do I need to do to set it up?03:55
RubenVso i don't make extra input ;)03:55
RubenVthe strange thing is03:55
Kamionmvo_: surely just use a shared archive03:56
RubenVi see it releasing my dhcp lease etc, bringing the link down03:56
Kamionmvo_: pqm is a big load of complexity you don't need03:56
RubenVand immidiately after that it re -enables the link and brings everything back up03:56
mvo_Kamion: setting up my own means I need a server somewhere with accounts for all people that want to commit?03:57
=== mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-45-222.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmvo_: right03:57
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danielsmvo_: (sort of like svn, yes)03:57
mjg59RubenV: Yeah, that's what'll happen if the suspend fails03:57
mvo_I don't have a server somewhere :P03:57
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mirakI realised eclipse is available only as sources in multiverse03:57
mirakso I am trying to build the sources03:57
mirakbut I have a problem with ant03:58
mirakit says it's not available03:58
mirakok so I build ant then :)03:59
mirakwhy are some packages not available ?04:00
rburtonnormally as they didn't autobuild correctly04:00
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mirakand what happens then ?04:00
mirakI mean what must be done in this case ?04:01
mirakwho should be called ?04:01
mjg59RubenV: What does /sys/power/disk say?04:03
RubenV404 :)04:04
mjg59Uh. That's odd.04:04
RubenVruben@tokyo:/sys/power $ ls -l /sys/power/04:04
RubenVtotal 004:04
RubenV-rw-r--r--  1 root root 4096 2004-11-11 15:44 state04:04
mjg59That's... very odd.04:04
mjg59Oh, are you using my kernel?04:04
RubenVaaaah :)04:04
RubenVsry :)04:04
RubenVgoing for a reboot for that one04:05
mjg59Wait a sec04:05
mjg59Could you do cat /proc/acpi/sleep first?04:05
mirakwhen will this auto build or deps problem will be fixed ?04:05
RubenVS0 S1 S3 S4 S4bios S504:05
mjg59RubenV: Ah!04:05
pittifabbione: Hi!04:05
mjg59RubenV: Can you edit /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh and add04:05
RubenVhmmm? :)04:05
pittifabbione: I just upgraded from xfree86 (warty) to hoary's xorg04:05
mjg59echo -n shutdown >/sys/power/disk04:05
mjg59just above04:05
mjg59echo -n disk >/sys/power/state04:06
danielspitti: cool04:06
pittifabbione: now the german keys do not work any more04:06
mjg59But replace the quotes with proper quotes04:06
danielspitti: not so cool04:06
RubenVadded it04:06
pittidaniels, fabbione: gnome does not show any keyboard layouts any more04:06
danielspitti: cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf | grep Xkb04:06
RubenVshould i go test it?04:06
danielspitti: yeah, I think control-center is broken04:06
danielswhich version?04:06
RubenVafter that i'll probably have to leave04:06
pittidaniels: sec, this is on the computer of my neighbor04:06
RubenVi'll test it tonight04:06
danielsyou need a recent control-center04:06
RubenVvisitor has arrived :)04:06
pittidaniels: on login it asked me whether to use the X or the gnome keys04:06
pittidaniels: my neighbor chose "gnome"04:07
pittidaniels: can I revert that choice?04:07
fabbionepitti: which version of the packages?04:07
mirakI am asking when this deps problem should be fixed because I will probably not keep ubuntu if it's too long04:07
pittifabbione: hoary current04:07
=== RubenV out
pittifabbione: 6.8.1-1ubuntu204:07
fabbionepitti: check /etc/X11/xkb/rules/04:08
fabbioneand see if xfree86* are symlinks to xorg*04:08
danielsmirak: ask on ubuntu-devel, sometimes it's because we just can't distribute it04:08
pittifabbione, daniels: I just installed xserver-xorg, no other libraries. Shall I upgrade the libs as well?04:08
danielspitti: yeah, dist-upgrade, dude04:08
fabbionepitti: i would say.. yes04:08
mirakdaniels: well that's ubuntu-devel here no ?04:08
danielsmirak: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com04:08
fabbionepitti: please read what we wrote in the announcment04:08
fabbionethis starts to be a FAQ04:08
mirakdaniels: but the sources are in the repositories04:09
pittifabbione: no xorg symlink04:09
pittifabbione: just xfree04:09
pittifabbione: if it depends on newer client libs, shouldn't this be a dependency then?04:10
danielspitti: yeah, you need to dist-upgrade04:10
danielspitti: not really, you can run the server just fine without any client libs04:10
danielspitti: ditto client/server04:10
pittidaniels: hmm, a pity; I thought upgrading the server would be enuff04:10
danielsyeah, it won't be04:10
danielsfull dist-upgrade recommended04:10
pittidaniels: okay, I have him upgrade04:10
Kamionmirak: sometime fairly soon we'll have the "masters of the universe" formed from community maintainers, who'll be able to fix this sort of thing; at the moment the core team just doesn't have the resources to deal with problems in universe/multiverse on a regular basis04:11
mirakKamion: ok. I am not skilled enough to help on this (yet :)04:12
mirakKamion: what do you mean by fairly soon ? a week ? a month ?04:13
Kamiondon't know exactly, we're trying to set up community maintainers as a matter of some urgency04:13
tim1the current gksudo has a different beahviour than previous ones, the screen freezes and the only active widgets are the input field and the two buttons of the gksudo dialog04:15
mirakKamion: community maintainers ?04:15
tim1somtimes there is also the border of the dialog missing04:16
tim1is that a wanted effect ?04:16
mirakKamion: ok I think I will use a debian mirror to get missing packages then04:20
mirakhowever I know there is a command to put in apt conf to not use this sources for a dist-upgrade04:20
mirakbut I don't remember it04:21
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fabbionedoko: ping04:31
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=== sid77 re
=== Kamion releases Array CD 1
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pittithom: here?04:50
danielspitti: no, he's VACed04:50
pittiah, bad :-(04:50
pittidaniels: I wanted Mr. Apache2 to review a patch :-)04:50
danielsi suspect he'll be somewhere over the east coast of the us right now04:50
danielsi'm also allegedly an a2 co-maintainer04:50
pittidaniels: there's a new guy who wants to help out with security (Gerardo di Giacomo)04:51
pittidaniels: we two prepared a patch for CAN-2004-094204:51
danielshow big is it?04:51
pittidaniels: its at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/2004-November/000007.html04:51
pittidaniels: I already tested and read the patch04:52
pittidaniels: it looks reasonably sane, but honestly I cannot truly claim it's safe without knowing the guts of apache04:52
pittidaniels: however, we took it from 2.0.53 cvs04:53
danielsit looks pretty sane to me04:53
infinitypitti : I already patched it in Sid.04:53
danielsbut I can provide no guarantees04:53
mirakI added sid source and it seems to fix the missing packages04:53
pittiinfinity: no regressions so far?04:53
infinitypiiti : Looks fine to me.  YMMV.04:53
pittiinfinity: okay, thanks04:53
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infinitypitti : Want me to compare patches with yours? :)04:54
pittiinfinity: I'd appreciate :-)04:54
infinitypiiti : Except for some diff ordering weirdness (probably due to differing whitespace), it looks identical to the patch that's been in Debian for 4 or 5 days with no complaints (yet)04:57
infinitypitti : Do you have 2004-0885 patched as well?  If not, you can pull that from sid too.04:57
=== pitti checks
pittiinfinity: yes, already patched04:58
pittiinfinity: oi, that was already a month ago...04:58
infinityYeah... It seemed to have slipped through the cracks.04:59
infinity(You're welcome to mail debian-apache, or bug me directly when you run into new vulns and you suspect I haven't been reading apacheweek like a good like maintainer)05:00
pittiinfinity: up to now I just filed bugs against the Debian package if it has outstanding issues05:00
pittiinfinity: however, I use to include a patch, and I want a verified one :-)05:00
infinityThat works just as well too, yes.05:00
infinityI can dow ithout patches, generally, unless it's little or no effort on your part.05:01
pittiinfinity: up to now it did. Sometimes I steal patches from Debian, sometimes I give them patches. Nice deal, I'd say :-)05:01
pittiinfinity: okay, so is this the same patch as you applied?05:01
infinity<nod>... I intend to start following Ubuntu a bit more closely, and bouncing patches your way as well.05:02
infinitypiiti : Other than whitespace, it looks identical.05:02
pittiinfinity: okay, thanks05:02
infinity(Well, whitespace and the filename)05:02
pittithen I upload it to the queue to have it built05:02
Kamionfabbione: d'oh! I've just realised why it started to remove laptop-detect and so on05:04
Kamion        if ! dpkg --get-selections | grep xserver-xfree86 | grep -q install; then05:04
danielsKamion: (this is where you amend the archive to be in line with your mistake)05:04
azeemreading the latest kerneltrap article about intel firmware, how does canonical handle that? Do you have an contract with Intel for the ipw2100 firmware?05:05
mjg59What ends up loading network hardware drivers? discover or hotplug?05:05
Kamionhotplug in the installed system05:05
danielsdiscover doesn't actually run in the installed system05:06
danielsit just sits there looking pretty05:06
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Keybukdaniels: surely you mean "an ugly blight that needs to be removed" ?05:06
infinityI get that confused with "pretty" all the time.05:06
infinityThey sound so similar.05:06
Keybukmjg59: we only use discover in X postinst to pick an X server05:06
fabbionenot in postinst05:07
Keybukuh, yes, config05:07
=== daniels -> foodsleepstuff
tsengg'night daniels 05:08
=== mjg59 alters the network module unloading code
mjg59RubenV: When you're back, the acpi-support package in my archive ought to work for you now05:13
Mitariogoing home05:19
Mitariocya guys soon05:19
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stratusdaniels, around?05:48
=== ClintWORK is now known as [Clint]
Nafallojust a thought for the topic on the mailinglist. is there any way to make anacron run those jobs it should run when systemload is below a specified percentage?05:49
mdzKamion: they should be replaced by the linux-headers-foo metpackages; I assume that's what you did to fix it05:52
Kamionmdz: right05:55
mdzmy changelog was not entirely adequate for that change05:56
Kamiondid that, rebuilt CDs, released :)05:56
Kamiontime to debug that kbd-chooser weirdness now05:56
mdzmost of the -2.6- packages disappeared, but where there was a -2.6-foo but no corresponding -foo, I renamed it05:56
KamionI grokked what had happened by looking at the contents of the linux-meta directory on my mirror05:56
mxpxpodhave you guys tested hoary on ibook g4's?05:57
Kamionwarty yes, not sure if anyone's explicitly tested hoary but it should be fine05:57
mxpxpodKamion: I'm wondering if xorg will throw my radon 9200 mobility for loops05:58
Kamionoh hm, ibook g3 and powerbook g4, don't know if we have any ibook g4s around actually05:58
mxpxpodwhat graphics card does the pb g4 have?05:58
Kamionmy model is a Radeon 950005:58
Kamionsorry, make that 960005:59
KamionI should think yours will be better supported if anything05:59
Kamion(than mine)05:59
mxpxpodyeah, i would think so too...05:59
mxpxpodhow much of gnome 2.9 is in hoary?06:00
mxpxpodalso, is gtk+ 2.5 abi compatible with gtk+ 2.4?06:01
pittiMorning mdz!06:04
seb128mxpxpod: all the modules released06:05
pittimdz: just for checking, do you get mails to security-review@?06:05
mdzpitti: I suppose I do, since I received the welcome message06:05
mxpxpodseb128: will programs compiled for gtk+ 2.4 work with 2.5?06:05
mxpxpodseb128: such as libgtkmm06:05
pittimdz: ugh, there was a whole bunch of messages already06:05
pittimdz: pending fixes for openssl, mysql, bogofilter, apache206:05
seb128mxpxpod: sure, new GNOME versions are binary compatible06:05
mxpxpodseb128: ok, cool06:06
mxpxpodseb128: I just don't want to install hoary if it's going to screw up development of coaster06:06
mdzpitti: they are sorted to a low-priority mailbox presently06:06
=== tseng bribes mxpxpod to package coaster
mxpxpodtseng: heh, no thanks06:06
pittimdz: okay, I just wanted to verify that you get them.06:06
mxpxpodtseng: I have enough problems just developing it :)06:06
seb128mxpxpod: but maybe you'll face some bug, that's still a devel branch ...06:07
mxpxpodseb128: yeah, I'll wait06:07
seb128mxpxpod: if you want a 100% stable system keep warty06:07
mxpxpodseb128: :)06:07
Kamionyou can always use a chroot (either way round) if need be06:07
tsengsomeone in #ub said hoary is 80% stable06:07
tsengid tend to agree with that06:07
mxpxpodKamion: heh, I don't really want to deal with chroots06:08
mdzpitti: you invited the people who volunteered for security work to the list, right?06:11
mdzpitti: have they been active at all?06:11
pittimdz: right now I invited Gerardo and Joey06:12
pittimdz: Astharot (Gerardo) already helped me today06:12
pittimdz: Joey did not subscribe yet06:12
mdzpitti: sivang said he was interested in security as well06:12
pittimdz: another guy subscribed, too, but I did not hear anything from him so far06:13
pittimdz: I can invite him, too06:13
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mirakin synaptic, what means the orange circle of people near some packages ?06:19
tsengthat means its supported06:20
=== Keybuk adds a filter to *-changes to /dev/null any mail without an X-Katie header
Keybukdef check_katie(m, env):06:27
Keybuk    """Check that the mail really comes from katie."""06:27
Keybuk    if not "X-Katie" in m:06:27
Keybuk        return Q_FINAL06:27
Keybuk    return Q_OK06:27
mdzmvo_: is it possible to add balloon help to the ubuntu/supported icon in synaptic?06:28
mvo_mdz: unfortunately not as the GtkTreeView does not support tooltips06:29
Keybukmvo_: why doesn't it?06:29
mvo_Keybuk: why it doesn't support tooltips?06:30
Keybuktip = gtk_tooltips_new ();06:30
Keybukgtk_tooltips_set_tip (GTK_TOOLTIPS (tip), ubuntu_icon, "Ubuntu-supported package", NULL);06:31
Keybukif the icon doesn't have an X window, just stick it into a GtkEventBox06:31
mvo_Keybuk: thanks :) I'll check this out06:32
Keybukbox = gtk_event_box_new ();06:33
Keybukgtk_container_add (GTK_CONTAINER (box), ubuntu_icon);06:33
Keybukthen set the tip on the event box06:33
Keybuk(assuming it's just an image, or something)06:33
mvo_Keybuk: the GtkTreeView does not support tooltips for individual rows, but as we don't need it, you idea is very welcome06:33
KeybukI assume it doesn't provide an X window for every row, and probably just has a large X window for the whole thing06:36
Keybukit would only be half a dozen lines of code, if that, to add per-row tip support if you wanted06:36
Keybukbut you just want it on the icon, which is a widget anyway -- so you can apply the tip to just that, adding an event box if it the widget you picked doesn't have an X window06:36
mvo_the icon is a GdkPixbuf object06:38
mvo_there is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80980 for "real" tooltip support06:38
mvo_the supported column is a GtkCellRendererPixbuf, so I can't just put a GtkWidget into it06:39
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Keybukchange it to a general widget cell?06:44
mvo_Keybuk: I don't think there is a general widget cell renderer available, only GtkCellRenderer{Text,Pixbuf,Toggle,Progress}06:46
pittisjoerd: here?06:47
Keybukreally?  I haven't honestly played with treeview that much ... how odd :)06:50
mvo_Keybuk: it's not alway fun to work with it :) I had a hard time to help speeding it up to cope with the ~14.000 packages debian has06:51
mvo_it used to be very slow for that amount of data06:51
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Keybukcheat :)  add a lightbulb and "Packages marked with the Ubuntu logo  are supported by Ubuntu"06:52
mvo_the funny thing is, it's already in the icon legend (Help/Icon legend). but people never read the help anyway :P06:53
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KeybukNor the FAQ ... http://www.qi.com/faq.html06:54
=== mvo_ chuckles
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=== lamont_r wonders if the libneon23 -> libneon24 transition would actually require source changes, or just a recompile?
infinitylamont_r : Just a recompile in all cases I've seen.07:12
mirakI get this error "No volume control elements and/or devices found." when running gnome-volume-control . I am not the only one. I use alsa.07:12
mirakI know it's not support, but well there is weird things about sound07:12
mjg59Why do half the wiki pages say Do not edit this page, and what am I supposed to edit instead?07:14
mjg59Oh, I see07:16
lamont_rinfinity: cool, I think07:17
Keybukmdz: how about we add anacron to base now ... while the release is young, and then if any problems come up on 24/7 machines we move it to supported before the release is out?07:21
mdzKeybuk: as I just sent to -devel, I think it's definitely a desktop thing, and not a base thing07:21
Keybukyeah, desktop would be a good target too07:21
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Mitariolo veryone07:22
mdzwhat bothers me is that upstream's response to problems from people who use it on systems which are not regularly shut down is "why are you using anacron, you dolt?"07:22
Keybukgenerally the only kind of complaints I've ever seen is that it doesn't run jobs at particular times, dates, etc.07:23
Keybukbut just once (e.g.) a month has passed since the last time it run it07:23
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lamont_rmdz: so why are you using anacron, eh?07:23
mdzKeybuk: so with anacron, my cron.daily won't run at 0625 anymore?07:23
Keybukyeah they do :)07:25
Keybukit actually puts a "daily" crontab into cron to ensure the daily clock ticks at the right time07:27
Keybukthe other option is to drop vixie cron and use something like fcron07:28
seb128elmo: sync for dia and inkscape please07:28
mdzKeybuk: fcron would provide the functionality of cron and anacron both?07:29
Keybukyeah, at least so it claims07:29
KeybukI've never actually tried it07:29
mdzKeybuk: a google for fcron security stuff is not very encouraging07:31
lamont_rfabbione/daniels around?07:31
mdzlamont_r: what are the dates for your trip again?07:32
Keybukmdz: indeed07:32
lamont_rmdz: the current one07:32
mjg59How do I tell the wiki that something with capital letters is not a link?07:32
mdzlamont_r: one sometime this month, no?07:32
lamont_rworking from the bay area this week, while traveling07:32
mdzmjg59: squint07:32
Keybukpersonally I recommend anacron, I think it does exactly what it's supposed to do07:32
pittiI use anacron for years now without apparent problems07:33
lamont_rtomorrow is virtual-vetrans'-day, conf runs fri afternoon thru sunday.07:33
mdzlamont_r: ah, ok.  when is the conference, and when do you get back?07:33
lamont_rthen working remotely next week07:33
pittimdz: can you still remember which problems you had with anacron?07:33
mjg59mdz: Hrm. I'd like people to be able to cut and paste.07:33
lamont_rback at home sometime late on the 21st07:33
Keybukmakes sure that the daily, weekly and monthly housekeeping tasks happen if that time period has passed since the last time they happened07:33
lamont_rmdz: but no actual real vacation time07:33
lamont_ror so goes the master plan.. :)07:33
mdzmjg59: which page are we talking about?07:33
mjg59mdz: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PMTesting07:34
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mjg59It's got Option VBERstore? Enabled07:34
mdzmjg59: surround that section with {{{ and }}}07:34
mjg59mdz: Ah, thanks07:34
mdzmjg59: that's for code snippets; you should also be able to use backticks to quote words07:35
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mdzlamont_r: the buildds are pretty well caught up, right?07:41
mdzlamont_r: how are buildd separation and the gnutls transition going?07:41
lamont_rmdz: ogre-model is in place. (buildd separation) - main now builds with only main (and that's why i've been poking elmo wrt unknown/ stuff of late - if it's not main, it winds up being given-back.  repeatedly)07:42
lamont_rgnutls transition was something seb128 said he was working on, so I was letting him.07:42
lamont_rcurrently catching up on merge-o-matic mail07:42
Nafallohehe. ogre is my server :-P.07:45
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lamont_rNafallo: "ogres have layers"07:46
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lamont_rmdz: if I run out of merge-o-matic stuff, I'll see if seb is awake and deal with gnutls07:48
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lamont_rthat is co-ordinate which ones I'm stealing :-)07:48
=== lamont_r grumbles at metacity. I want to position the cursor in a window _WITHOUT_ raising the damn thing.
mjg59mdz: Hrm. That gives me fixed-width fonts, but doesn't remove the question mark.07:51
Keybuklamont_r: Alt+Click ?07:51
lamont_rKeybuk: nope.07:53
lamont_ranybody know about sager laptops and touchpads?07:54
mdzmjg59: I think that's probably a bug in zwiki, then07:55
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mdzmjg59: ISTR it did both in moin07:55
Kamionmdz: "CW"?07:59
mdzKamion: conventional wisdom08:00
Kamionaha, I thought the W was wisdom but couldn't expand the C08:02
lamont_rhrm.. how was it that I got the wondow list bar to self-hide when not selected?08:15
lamont_r(that thang at the bottom of the screen...)08:15
mjg59Oh, christ, even if I tell it to just use HTML it *still* sticks its fucking question marks all over the place08:15
mdzmjg59: this should probably be added to WikiWishlist if it isn't there already08:16
infinitymjg59 : I'm not a wiki guru, but doesn't [=MixedCaseWord=]  avoid the question mark (or something alon g those lines)...08:17
Kamiondepends wildly on the particular wiki08:17
ChrisHinfinity: it does08:17
=== infinity notes that with eight thousand different wiki implementations, one can never be sure.
Kamionwith Twiki it's <nop>MixedCaseWord08:17
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=== mjg59 writes V<!---->B<!---->E<!---->Restore
mjg59Eat that, parser.08:19
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_rene_elmo: ping08:24
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Kamionmjg59: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpForBeginners suggests either VBE''''''Restore or VBE``Restore08:28
mjg59I prefer my solution.08:30
Kamionyou should be able to lose the first two comments in your solution08:32
KamionI don't think VBE counts as CamelCase by itself08:32
elmoseb128: done08:42
seb128elmo: thanks08:42
amudaniels: i diffed xorg and xfree config, they are identical, correct?  08:43
elmolamont: the unknown's got fixed last night, AFAICS08:43
lamont_relmo: cool.08:44
Kamionoh great, hoary-changes is getting spam now?08:46
makoKamion: on the moderated lists we get half a dozen messages a day already08:49
makoit doesn't take very long08:50
Kamionoh, rock, I think the kbd-chooser brokenness in array-1 is fixed already thanks to a merge from Debian, so just needs an initrd rebuild08:50
Kamionaha, and I even have an excuse here to upload debian-installer08:50
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Kamionmdz: do we have word on whether we're accepting ia64 uploads to hoary?08:53
mdzKamion: I know of no reason that we shouldn't08:55
_rene_elmo: is it "normal" that arm ld behaves different than the other archs?08:56
KamionI should knock together a quick linux-kernel-di-ia64-2.6 at some point, pending having udebs done directly in linux-source08:56
Kamionalthough I guess that's blocking on having linux-source with ia64 support08:56
_rene_elmo: i.e. -lkdeui works on i386, powerpc, sparc, s390 but on arm I need -lkdeui -lqt-mt -lkdecore to get no unresolved symbols08:56
elmo_rene_: dude, ubuntu doesn't have an arm port - if this is about Debian, please privmsg me or take it to a debian channel (e.g. #debian-release)08:56
_rene_elmo: yes, but sou are not reachable in #debian-* channels...08:57
elmo_rene_: that's demonstrably not true08:57
_rene_I didn't see you on both -devels08:57
mdzKamion: ia64 in linux-source is a T-bone kind of job I think08:57
elmoas I said, there's #debian-release, or privmsg08:57
Kamionmdz: indeed; does he have upload privileges yet?08:58
Kamionright, bored now, I'm going to remove those spurious devfs=mount,dall options from our debian-installer08:58
Kamionbetter it breaks hoary than sarge :)08:58
elmodude, remove devfs - that'd be way cooler ;P08:59
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Kamionelmo: will do soon :)08:59
Kamionit's basically next on my list09:00
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mdzKamion: if he doesn't already, he should, after Tuesday's CC meeting09:04
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lamont_relmo: please sync libselinux_1.18-109:19
lamont_rk thanks bye.09:19
=== lamont_r wanders momentarily.
dokoelmo: please sync mailman09:19
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pittielmo: for doing the language packs I need to modify a large number of packages (OO.o, the mozilla stuff and so on).09:32
seb128hey jdub 09:32
pittielmo: since my bandwidth is somewhat limited and my computer is not the fastest one, is it possible to get a hoary dchroot in the DC for this stuff?09:32
pittiHi jdub!09:33
_rene_pitti: what do you need to modify on OOo wrt language packs?09:45
pittiOh, hi _rene_! Nice to see my ol' sponsor! :-)09:45
_rene_pitti: there is already those -l10n-* packages09:46
pitti_rene_: I only need to change the dependencies09:46
_rene_pitti: same the other way round09:46
_rene_pitti: uh? to what?09:46
pitti_rene_: the language packs should be installable without the main oo.o package09:46
_rene_ah, that shit09:46
pitti_rene_: so instead of depending on the main OO.o, they should conflict to all other versions09:46
pitti_rene_: I just tried that out with some --force-depends magic, it works09:47
pitti_rene_: the problem is, we don't want to have ubuntu-language-de uninstalled just because the user uninstalls mozilla09:47
pitti_rene_: or OO.o09:47
pitti_rene_: but currently you cannot uninstall OO.o without uninstalling the l10n packages09:48
pitti_rene_: same for mozilla/firefox/thunderbird stuff09:48
_rene_which makes sense09:48
_rene_since that package is useless without OOo09:48
_rene_but well, I am no ubuntu dev...09:48
pitti_rene_: so instead of having ooo-de_1 depend on ooo-109:48
pitti_rene_: I want to have ooo-de-1 conflict to ooo < 1 and ooo > 109:49
pitti_rene_: makes sense? The conflicts ensure that you don't mix different versions09:49
pitti_rene_: but they allow to have the l10n package installed without oo.o itself09:49
_rene_which doesn't make sense09:49
pitti_rene_: of course the l10nn package is useless then09:49
sjoerdpitti: pong09:50
pitti_rene_: but we want to have general language packs, so we have to live with this waste09:50
pittiHi sjoerd !09:50
_rene_I see09:50
pitti_rene_: it's a relatively unintrusive patch09:50
_rene_so something like kde-i18n-de does09:50
pitti_rene_: If you do not want to adopt it for Debian, it should not be a problem to keep it in Ubuntu09:50
_rene_which you could install without kdebase iirc09:51
sjoerdpitti: morning :)09:51
_rene_pitti: yes, maybe. as I said, I am no ubuntu dev09:51
pitti_rene_: I know, it makes sense only at the second look09:51
_rene_I have already two distris, not a third please :)09:51
pitti_rene_: the idea is: you choose "de" in the installer09:51
pitti_rene_: and this will isntall ubuntu-l-de09:51
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_rene_I see what you want to do09:51
pitti_rene_: and you automatically have german mozilla, OO.o, spellcheck and so on09:52
jdubKamion: ROCK!09:52
pitti_rene_: can I send you the patch as wishlist bug, or won't you apply it to Debian anyway?09:52
=== _rene_ wonders if we really should take this over to debian because that would make the l10n stuff being able to go into the tasks
Nafallopitti: now that I to understand those parts. I like it :-).09:53
mjg59x86 laptop owners, I still need YOU09:53
RubenVmjg59: when the visit's gone ;)09:53
Nafallomjg59: not amd64 then?09:53
_rene_because they were removed since they depended on oo.o which depends on oo.o-bin which only is available on four/five archs09:53
=== Nafallo counts himself out
mjg59Nafallo: Afraid not, at the moment09:53
mjg59Your time will come09:53
mjg59(at around the same time as I get an amd64 laptop...)09:54
pitti_rene_: basically we want sth similar like the old l10n tasks09:54
_rene_pitti: I have to think about it and discuss it09:54
Nafallomjg59: just tell me when :-)09:54
_rene_I see the sense in this..09:54
pitti_rene_: sure! :-) If you aren't completely opposed, I can file it as wishlist in Debian's BTS09:54
_rene_well, wishlist is wishlist ;-)09:54
_rene_but please do that against 1.1.309:55
pitti_rene_: is the control file so much different?09:55
pitti_rene_: I'd really like to see OO.o 1.1.3 in Hoary, but I don't know how long it will take09:55
_rene_not really, but the virtual package has changed etc09:55
pitti_rene_: anyway, we will have it and at that time I have to adapt the patch anyway09:55
_rene_pitti: take it from experimental, test it, fix bugs, send patches.. ;)09:56
pitti_rene_: believe it or not, I already tried to pull 1.1.3 from experimental on my iBook09:56
pitti_rene_: but this did not work, some dependencies could not be fulfilled09:56
jdubamu: around?09:56
pitti_rene_: might also have been my fault, I did not really try very hard09:56
_rene_anyway, back to OOo/ARM porting ;-(09:57
pitti_rene_: right, back to security updates :-)09:58
pitti_rene_: will you be around from time to time here?09:58
_rene_maybe. not sure. getting involved in ubuntu development would make this the third distro i am involved with...09:58
_rene_and I don't have a job related to debian ;-)09:59
=== mjg59 successfully suspends/resumes with sound playing
Nafallomjg59: damnit. don't make me eager to try it ;-)10:00
Nafallomjg59: it might aswell work?10:00
mjg59Nafallo: I don't have an amd64 build environment, so building amd64 kernels and support apps is a bit awkward at the moment :)10:01
amujdub: yep10:01
Nafallomjg59: well. I have hacked my wireless driver to work with amd64. I might try to make a few steps more into understanding programming? :-)10:02
Nafallomjg59: the least I get is the improvement on my learning scale :-P.10:03
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RubenVmjg59: do nvidia drivers actually have suspend support?10:04
Mitariolo again10:04
RubenVi hate the bloody things, but the nv driver doesn't support 1680x1050 resolution10:04
Nafallomjg59: hmm, you really do need 2.6.9?10:07
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mjg59Nafallo: Ideally, yes10:10
mjg59Nafallo: It's been somewhat patched10:10
mjg59RubenV: Hrm. Good question.10:10
Nafallohmm, that version isn't even in hoary for amd64 :-P10:10
mjg59RubenV: It's possible that they don't properly, which is likely to make things difficult10:10
RubenVelse it's bit dull to suspend if i have to disable X to suspend ;)10:10
mjg59Nafallo: 2.6.9 isn't in Ubuntu at all10:10
mjg59RubenV: There's some chance that it'll work in any case10:10
mjg59RubenV: It depends how much of the kernel code is in use at the time...10:11
RubenVgonna retest in a while10:11
mjg59RubenV: Rock10:11
Nafallomjg59: I might try to install debians kernel? :-)10:12
RubenVi rather prefer techno ;)10:12
mjg59Nafallo: As I said, it's fairly heavily patched10:12
mjg59The swsusp code has been modified in order to make stuff work10:13
sjoerdpitti: i've got some ideas how we can change hal+gvm+pmount in debian to run under user priviledged by default without regressions (i.e. not mounting fixed drives)10:13
=== mjg59 goes out
sjoerdpitti: but i've got to do homework now and probably tomorrow, so i'll ping you later if you don't mind10:14
pittisjoerd: moment, telephone10:14
Nafalloahh, YOU'RE patches. I thought you meant that code in the vanilla kernels from -> 2.6.9 :-P10:14
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Nafallowell, time to sleep. see you later everyone!10:16
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_rene_pitti: ich sehe gerade, die diskussion landet auf debian-openoffice10:18
_rene_umm, ELANG10:19
pitti_rene_: gerade am tel, aber ich schau mal rein...10:19
pitti_rene_: irc oder ml?10:19
_rene_pitti: ich denke, Du kriegst unsere Untersttzung10:19
_rene_pitti: ml10:19
_rene_Chris hat wohl auf ne ubuntu-devel mail geantwortet10:20
pitti_rene_: sounds good :-)10:20
_rene_argh, immernoch falsche sprache :(10:20
=== _rene_ wonders why he suddenly starts writing german in english speaking channels
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elmolamont/doko: done10:35
lamont_relmo: thanks10:35
Mitarionite all10:37
lamont_rpitti: around?10:40
pittilamont: yes, telephone10:40
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pittilamont_r/sjoerd: back10:43
dokoelmo: thanks10:44
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sjoerdpitti: see your backlog :)10:45
pittisjoerd: I know ;-)10:45
pittisjoerd: Did you follow the discussion on d-devel?10:46
pittisjoerd: today I moved the device node plugdev code from udev to hal10:46
pittisjoerd: I think this makes much more sense 10:46
pittisjoerd: and it eases the switch10:46
sjoerdyeah sounds sane10:46
pittisjoerd: what would you change to make hal mount static disks?10:46
pittisjoerd: or, rather, pmount?10:46
pittisjoerd: just the policy?10:47
sjoerdwe probably should include a hotplug script to do umount -l, so we can rip that code out of hal10:47
pittisjoerd: i. e. throw out the removable check?10:47
pittisjoerd: oh, that would be great10:47
sjoerdno, if the fsusage is empty gvm can check if it's in fstab and then mount it anyway10:47
sjoerdthat will make stuff work again on fixed drives that are in fstab10:47
sjoerdwithout blindly trying to mount everything10:48
sjoerdbut i'm continuing homework now :)10:48
pittisjoerd: ah, I see what you mean10:50
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sjoerdhaven't really thought it over yet though10:51
jdubhey sjoerd 10:52
sjoerdjdub: morning10:52
elmopike7.4/amd64 is the last uninstallable in hoary ...10:55
sjoerdjdub: could you check out the howl patch i sent, that would make it possible for people to build exp. G2.8 on alpha :)10:56
jdubyes, will do10:57
jdubtoday even :)10:57
sjoerdthanks :)10:57
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Keybuksladen: ?11:19
sladenit's ironic that the term 'wikiwiki' originally came from a *high-speed* bus service11:20
wasabi_Howdy. How "open" is the Wiki? I have a page I'd like to stick up detailing a proposal for a Ubuntu system tool I plan to work on "sometime" that I'd like immortalized. Is that appropiate for the wiki? Don't want to get yelled at.11:21
wasabi_the registrion email for the wiki directs to wiki.ubuntu.com, not www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki11:25
mirakis there something similar to pmount but for non device block file systems ?11:32
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wasabi_well now i've totally messed up my site account.11:33
=== lamont_r lunches
wasabi_so much for all teh wiki markup i've ever used11:50

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