[12:14] <thom> ARGH, the poxy wiki doesn't even let me use my back button usefully
[12:15] <bob2> I hope it overrides it with telepathic javascript
[12:19] <thom> mdz: uh, dude. you keep leaving markup warnings in your trail
[12:19] <thom> :-)
[12:29] <mdz> thom: only when I lose my mind and decide to try ReST again
[12:29] <mdz> I changed back to moin immediately after
[12:32] <thom> yeah, ReST is pretty crackadelic
[12:32] <mdz> lifeless: any luck with apt?
[12:33] <mdz> thom: if the markup requires warnings to get it right, it's too unforgiving
[12:34] <thom> nod. esp it seems very space sensitive, and to have useless warnings
[12:34] <thom> I just fixed WikiToDo
[12:35] <thom> mdz: so are we in LA at the same time at all?
[12:35] <mdz> oh, I broke that one too?
[12:35] <mdz> thom: yes, we don't leave until the 16th
[12:35] <mdz> thom: where are you staying?
[12:35] <thom> yep, only one space rather than two on the indented bullet point
[12:36] <thom> mdz: the thursday night before Vegas, i'm in Irvine - staying with a friend at UCI
[12:36] <lifeless> mdz: yah, correcting it at the moment, bug in the 'taxi'.
[12:36] <mdz> thom: hmm, that's not so close, but maybe we can arrange something
[12:37] <thom> mdz: but note i'm there for literally one day only before i head to Vegas, and then don't get back till the 17th :/
[12:37] <mdz> thom: might also be some overlap before you leave as well; we're thinking of returning on the 21st (sunday)
[12:37] <thom> ah, cool
[12:37] <mdz> another day or so
[12:38] <thom> that might work out better, i'm planning to be more central for that
[12:38] <mdz> my address is in the wiki so you can get your bearings
[12:42] <thom> thanks :-)
[01:05] <jblack> mdz: You were looking for me last night? 
[01:06] <mdz> jblack: was looking for some arch help; I got straightened out, though
[01:07] <mdz> jblack: I sent a couple of bugs your way, unsure whether they were already addressed in baz
[01:07] <jblack> Ok. You know how to reach me if I'm not on tty? 
[01:07] <mdz> you don't seem to be on jabber
[01:07] <mdz> phone?
[01:08] <jblack> Phone works, as does a short message to jblackphone@linuxguru.net, which will sms me
[01:16] <jblack> jdub: Pardon? Isn't my bugzilla address jblack@gnuarch.org? That should be appropriate to bugzilla.
[01:19] <jdub> *whooosh*
[01:36] <hypa7ia> thom, if you're around, networkmonitor ate my wifi connection.  removing it got me back online, but i was wondering if any of my logs would be of interest to you
[01:36] <thom> daemon.log please
[01:40] <hypa7ia> thom: http://pastebin.com/118752
[01:40] <hypa7ia> it seems to mostly look like that
[01:41] <thom> yeah, that looks pretty familiar :/
[01:41] <hypa7ia> yeah?
[01:41] <thom> i've seen NM break most ways it can recently
[01:41] <hypa7ia> the errno-19's are from me unloading and reloading my ipw2200 drivers
[01:42] <thom> i need to push updated packages, that might happen when i get to LA
[01:42] <hypa7ia> coolbeans
[01:42] <hypa7ia> for now i'm just using wifi-radar for scanning.  it's quite nice.
[01:42] <hypa7ia> and python :-)
[01:42] <thom> yar
[01:43] <thom> NM will be much cooler when it gets stable
[01:43] <thom> it has a nasty habit of turning encryption on and then segfaulting here
[01:43] <hypa7ia> whoot, lookin forward to it.  and to my drivers maturing and all :-)
[01:43] <hypa7ia> eek!
[01:43] <chrisa> Does NM work with odd driver sets like linux-wlan-ng?
[01:43] <jdub> $ ./universe
[01:43] <jdub> cabextract
[01:43] <jdub> ethtool
[01:43] <jdub> gpdf
[01:43] <jdub> gtkhtml3.2
[01:43] <jdub> howl-utils
[01:43] <jdub> libgal2.2-common
[01:43] <chrisa> I still consider linux-wlan-ng the devil, but I need to use it for one device
[01:43] <jdub> libgtkhtml3.2-11
[01:43] <jdub> mdnsresponder
[01:44] <jdub> msttcorefonts
[01:44] <jdub> python-gst
[01:44] <jdub>  \
[01:44] <jdub> hmm
[01:44] <jdub> few of those will be resolved with hoary proposals :)
[01:44] <thom> chrisa: it uses libiw (wireless tools) so if linux-wlan-ng plays well with that, then it'll be fine
[01:44] <mdz> what's the deal with gpdf?
[01:44] <mdz> will we be able to move to it for hoary?
[01:44] <thom> if it doesn't. you're SOL right now
[01:44] <jdub> mdz: pretty sure
[01:45] <jdub> nacht
[01:45] <chrisa> thom: oh well, SOL seems to be the general linux-wlan use case
[01:45] <jdub> thom: oh, had a look at g-u-s much?
[01:46] <thom> jdub: not at all really, too many things going on
[01:46] <jdub> ok
[01:46] <mdz> mizar:[~]  universe |wc -l
[01:46] <mdz> 60
[01:46] <thom> i have the tarball on my laptop, might take a look on the plane
[01:47] <Kamion> somebody wanna fix the libxklavier build failure please? should just be a matter of s/xlibs-static-dev/libxkbfile-dev/ in the build-deps
[01:48] <jdub> mdz: oof. my main warty machine is pushing 85.
[01:48] <jdub> i'm sure there's crap there tho.
[01:48] <jdub> Kamion: will do
[01:48] <mdz> jdub: 51 after cleaning up random crap
[01:48] <mdz> probably about half those from gnucash
[01:50] <hypa7ia> thanks for lookin at my logs thom :-)
[01:51] <thom> no worries, sorry there's no magic fix
[01:51] <hypa7ia> no worries, good to know i wasn't just goin nuts :-)
[01:53] <Kamion> anyone mind if I put ntfstools-udeb in the installer seed?
[01:53] <Kamion> then partman will be able to do ntfsresize
[01:53] <thom> hypa7ia: going? a bit late for that...
[01:54] <Kamion> although I notice it's already in hoary main
[01:54] <jdub> Kamion: do we feel comfortable supporting that?
[01:54] <hypa7ia> lol, yeah, i guess i am running linux after all :-p
[01:54] <hypa7ia> http://ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54 <-- like that
[01:55] <Kamion> jdub: a lot more comfortable than I feel not supporting it
[01:55] <jdub> heh
[01:55] <jdub> i'd be happy to test it :)
[01:55] <Kamion> it's far enough up on the list of warty installer gripes that I can't see it from here due to the cloud formations in the way
[01:56] <Kamion> ok, committed
[01:58] <thom> jdub: dude, you need to spank jaq next time you see him for that blocker severity firefox bug
[01:58] <jdub> he filed a blocker?
[01:59] <thom> yeah
[01:59] <thom> #3615
[02:00] <jdub> it's faster to load the my bugs page than the new bugs page
[02:00] <thom> yep
[02:00] <thom> you don't have to download the javascript widget of death
[02:01] <jdub> *bong*
[02:01] <jdub> (jaq's bug, that is)
[02:01] <jdub> (well, ok, so the javascript widget of death is also bong)
[02:02] <thom> i really, *really* hope that they don't keep breaking profiles in >1.0
[02:02] <jdub> (but that one doesn't leap out of a cake wearing a pink tutu yelling "surprise!")
[02:08] <chrisa> I'm rather tired of upgrading firefox and being greeted with xul errors with download dialogs and such
[02:08] <jdub> mdz: http://www.user-mode-linux.org/~blaisorblade/patches/host-skas3-2.6.9-v7.patch
[02:09] <jdub> mdz: is this a happy new version?
[02:09] <bob2> chrisa: that will happen if you don't restart it after the upgrade
[02:09] <chrisa> bob2: Then I withdraw my previous statement... for the most part
[02:10] <mdz> jdub: his patches are generally solid
[02:10] <mdz> jdub: that's still the v3 never-going-upstream interface, though
[02:10] <jdub> oh
[03:46] <elmo> the one thing I'm missing in metacity from wmaker is the ability to <modifier>+drag to resize - is it possible to do that at all in metacity?
[03:48] <Keybuk> From: 	Scott James Remnant <scott@canonical.com>
[03:48] <Keybuk> Subject: 	Accepted hotplug 0.0.20040329-16ubuntu1 (source)
[03:48] <Keybuk> gpg: Signature made Thu 11 Nov 2004 01:26:55 GMT using DSA key ID 43E25D1E
[03:48] <Keybuk> gpg: Good signature from "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@alcor.net>"
[03:48] <Keybuk> gpg:                 aka "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@debian.org>"
[03:48] <Keybuk> gpg:                 aka "Matt Zimmerman <mdz@csh.rit.edu>"
[03:49] <Keybuk> I was starting to wonder whether I'd fallen asleep and some schitzophrenic side of me had started uploading packages
[03:52] <jdub> mjg59: dude
[03:52] <jdub> mjg59: http://lwn.net/Articles/110345/
[03:52] <jdub> elmo: alt-shift, innit?
[03:53] <jdub> oh
[03:53] <jdub> resize
[03:53] <jdub> elmo: don't think so, unless i've missed something
[03:55] <elmo> jdub: doh, oh well
[03:55] <elmo> I'll stop trying by reflex eventually :)
[04:06] <Keybuk> elmo: Alt+Middle drag
[04:07] <jdub> yay
[04:08] <jdub> that's surprisingly hard to do with 3rd button emulation on a trackpad
[04:09] <Keybuk> jdub: can't you two-finger it?
[04:09] <jdub> yeah, but that's a three-handed move ;)
[04:09] <jdub> (to actually resize as well as hold the mouse buttons and alt)
[04:10] <jdub> oh, i can do alt with a finger, and the two buttons with a thumb
[04:10] <Keybuk> two buttons?
[04:10] <Keybuk> I mean just tap-drag on the pad with two fingers
[04:10] <jdub> oh, i turn that off
[04:10] <jdub> not a big fan of trackpad clickies
[04:10] <Keybuk> really?  I like my silly gestures
[04:11] <jdub> synclient TapButton1=0 TapButton2=0 TapButton3=0 UpDownScrolling=0 VertScrollDelta=0 HorizScrollDelta=0 
[04:11] <jdub> ^ i have that in my session ;)
[04:13] <Keybuk> heh, I just have it at the defaults but with  Option  "LockedDrags"  "false"
[04:13] <Keybuk> in my xorg.conf
[04:13] <jdub> "The structures that the chip drivers use to specify which
[04:13] <jdub> addresses they support has been shrunk, as a step toward moving them to
[04:13] <jdub> use the hotplug interfaces for autoloading.
[04:13] <jdub> "
[04:13] <jdub> ^ i2c
[04:34] <Keybuk> nice
[04:46] <Keybuk> #
[04:46] <Keybuk> Hardware diversity testing: get those Sounders going! Sounder launch Monday 08/09
[04:46] <Keybuk> #
[04:46] <Keybuk> shouldn't that be "Arrays" ?
[04:52] <jdub> 'array' :)
[05:18] <Keybuk> jdub: ping?
[05:18] <jdub> pogn
[05:18] <jdub> pong
[05:19] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/fonts.png
[05:19] <Keybuk> out of interest, which set of font rendering do you prefer?
[05:21] <jdub> i use unhinted aa + subpixel rendering on my lappy
[05:21] <Keybuk> which looks roughly like the two sets of windows on the left?
[05:21] <jdub> no
[05:21] <jdub> go into details and set it unhinted
[05:22] <jdub> out of your two, the one on the left is preferable
[05:22] <Keybuk> do you have the freetype autohinter on or off?
[05:23] <Keybuk> ugh ... I set the hinting to off and everything just went blurry and nasty
[05:23] <chrisa> I don't like the yellowish glow the right picture has
[05:23] <Keybuk> jdub: I'm not sure which I prefer ... with a CRT the right set is *far* preferable
[05:24] <Keybuk> but with the LCD, I'm actually a little temped by the left set
[05:24] <chrisa> You prefer the right on a CRT? Looks cruddy here
[05:24] <jdub> the shapes and spacing looks better in the left one
[05:24] <Keybuk> chrisa: that image will look cruddy on a CRT whatever you do -- it's subpixel rendered :p
[05:24] <jdub> i am looking at this on both crt and lcd :)
[05:25] <chrisa> sidenote, that's a peculiar wallpaper
[05:26] <jdub> move the fricken window...
[05:27] <Keybuk> nah, I hate to say it, but I definitely prefer the font rendering on the right
[05:28] <Keybuk> the left just looks ... wavy
[05:28] <jdub> wavy?
[05:28] <jdub> WAVY?
[05:28] <Keybuk> dunno, it's hard to define
[05:29] <Keybuk> but to me, the set on the right, *especially* Monospace just looks more solid
[05:29] <jdub> must be if you're pussyfooting around with words like 'wavy'
[05:29] <jdub> yes, agree on monospace
[05:29] <jdub> turn hinting off! :)
[05:30] <nasdaq4088> arafat is dead
[05:31] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/fonts-hinting-off.png
[05:31] <Keybuk> that just looks *terrible*
[05:32] <jdub> lovely :-)
[05:32] <Keybuk> jdub: it looks like a TV picture in a thunderstorm
[05:32] <Keybuk> with the aerial pointing the wrong way
[05:32] <Keybuk> so you're getting the BBC by bouncing off your neighbour's car's window, and the thunder-head
[05:33] <jdub> well, i like hairless chested men too, dude, but that's no reason to be rude
[05:33] <Keybuk> lol
[05:40] <Keybuk> "The controller stated that he had forgotten that he had given take off clearance to G-SMTJ (the Airbus) when he subsequently cleared EI-CJI (the Boeing) to cross the runway."
[05:40] <Keybuk> ...fear
[05:46] <mdz> heh, thom is on his way to the airport-o-doom
[05:46] <bob2> heathrow?
[06:03] <mdz> LAX
[06:04] <mdz> http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/ktla-110904laxclosecall,0,2928466.story?coll=ktla-news-1
[06:04] <mdz> An animation of the near disaster shows Asiana Airlines flight 204 -- a boeing 747 -- approaching the airport for landing, when the control tower cleared Southwest Airlines flight 440 -- a boeing 737 -- for preparation to take off on the same runway.
[06:07] <bob2> well
[06:07] <bob2> as long as they're heading in the same direction
[06:09] <pasc> they would be
[06:11] <pasc> you take off and land in the same direction, and as confusius said "he who lands with wind up ass ends with rock in head"
[06:23] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:05] <hornbeck> morning
[07:29] <hornbeck> hello skyrider
[07:29] <skyrider> hi
[07:32] <hornbeck> you a doc writer?
[07:35] <skyrider> do, sorry
[07:35] <skyrider> no
[07:36] <hornbeck> ahh, doc reader?
[07:36] <hornbeck> interested in becoming a doc writer?
[07:38] <skyrider> yes :)
[07:38] <hornbeck> you joined the wiki yet?
[07:38] <skyrider> but I'm only fluent in Russian language
[07:38] <hornbeck> we need translator's
[07:39] <skyrider> ok
[07:39] <skyrider> I'm already joined the wiki
[07:40] <hornbeck> cool
[07:40] <hornbeck> I just relized I was not in #ubuntu-doc :-)
[07:40] <hornbeck> man I am tired
[07:40] <hornbeck> we do need help with translations though
[07:40] <skyrider> hornbeck: :)
[07:41] <skyrider> let's switch to ubuntu-doc. OK?
[07:41] <hornbeck> ok
[07:51] <pitti> Morning everybody!
[07:53] <mdz> morning
[08:07] <thom> mdz: thanks for that quote earlier... make me feel good about my choice of destinations :P
[09:37] <pitti> Hi mvo_ !
[09:37] <mvo_> hi pitti 
[09:37] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync libgd2 from sid?
[09:42] <daniels> sjoerd: awesome
[09:43] <sjoerd> daniels: dualhead doesn't work though, always claims there are no valid modes
[09:43] <sjoerd> morning btw :)
[09:44] <pitti> Hi sjoerd
[09:45] <daniels> sjoerd: weird
[09:45] <daniels> sjoerd: but morning!
[09:46] <daniels> sjoerd: by dualhead, I take it you mean 
[09:46] <daniels> standard LCD and VGA out
[09:46] <sjoerd> daniels: yup
[09:47] <daniels> ah, bong
[09:47] <daniels> please file a bug and I'll look into it
[09:47] <sjoerd> k
[09:47] <sjoerd> is there a chance that dvi works ? there is currently a dvi screen in my neighbourhood :)
[09:47] <daniels> it might work, it might not ;) give it a shot
[09:58] <thom> hrm, i should try dualhead again when i get back
[09:58] <thom> i cheated and used fglrx last time
[09:58] <sjoerd> exactly the same error
[10:02] <calc> i have dualhead sort of setup on a 9600 both output plugging into the same monitor, heh
[10:04] <daniels> thom: boo fglrx
[10:05] <calc> what is it hard to setup dual head on some radeons?
[10:19] <mvo_> daniels: why does X answers "false" or XSupportsLocale()" when I set LANG to e.g. "de_DE.UTF-8" ?
[10:24] <sjoerd> daniels: there is no xserver-xorg component yet in bugzilla, is that a problem ?
[10:25] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync libgd1394 from sid as well?
[10:27] <daniels> sjoerd: not massively.  i've already asked for the component list to be synced, so it should happen soon enough.
[10:27] <daniels> mvo_: if you could tell me, I'll buy you a beer in Mataro.
[10:27] <sjoerd> daniels: should i wait for that or can i just file it now
[10:28] <daniels> sjoerd: just file it now, i think there's an 'xorg' component
[10:29] <sjoerd> ah, yes indeed.. filing against xorg then
[10:35] <bitserf> hi, is this the right place to report bugs not in bugzilla or mailing list? (before filing bugzilla report)
[10:36] <bitserf> did an upgrade to hoary from warty, somehow the gamin dep never got pulled down, causing all kinds of strange errors ('unable to connect to gam_server')
[10:37] <thom> do you have ubuntu-desktop installed?
[10:37] <bitserf> interesting, wonder how that got dropped
[10:37] <thom> not a bug, then :-)
[10:37] <bitserf> sorry for the false alarm, then
[10:37] <bitserf> :)
[10:37] <thom> no problem
[10:38] <bitserf> oh, right. i installed totem-xine, it kills ubuntu-desktop
[10:39] <thom> mjg59: running ntpdate in the resume script might not be a bad idea
[10:41] <azeem> if upgrades from warty to hoary loosely depend on ubuntu-desktop being around (is that the case?), wouldn't it make sense to consider adding totem-gstreamer | totem-xine to ubuntu-desktop?
[10:47] <elmo> pitti: err, I assume you mean libdc1394, not libgd1394 ?
[10:47] <elmo> pitti: libgd2 done
[10:47] <pitti> elmo: argh, yes
[10:47] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[10:48] <pitti> elmo: can you please also sync dbus and jigit?
[10:48] <elmo> pitti: done
[10:48] <pitti> elmo: all four? thanks
[10:50] <daniels> pitti: he's a syncing machine
[10:51] <pitti> daniels: I hope he has a good script for it
[10:53] <elmo> syncing's as easy as 'lorraine -f $pkg1 $pkg2[...] '
[10:53] <elmo> (-f, --force)
[10:54] <elmo> I'm semi-tempted to make it invokable from chinstrap by the distro team or something, but the sync rate isn't high enough to bother yet
[11:51] <mjg59> thom: Probably makes more sense to do hwclock --hctosys
[11:51] <thom> mjg59: or that
[11:52] <mjg59> If they're running ntpd, it ought to sort things out
[11:52] <thom> one way or another, the time needs to be reset
[11:52] <thom> mjg59: hoary won't be by default
[11:53] <mjg59> ntpdate doesn't seem ideal - it'd need to be backgrounded, and if it is then it might reply after X has come back and suddenly xscreensaver will come on again
[11:58] <thom> nod
[11:58] <RubenV> anyone here from the laptop team?
[11:58] <thom> hwclock seems like a reasonable solution
[11:58] <thom> i was just throwing out thoughts whilst packing
[11:58] <RubenV> I'd like to help out improving the support for Dell inspiron 8600
[11:59] <RubenV> I have a hoary one and my sister is running warthy, so I'm able to do a little testing 
[12:16] <mjg59> RubenV: What sort of support would you like to test?
[12:17] <Kamion> mdz: confused; if you remove the -2.6- metapackages, how are linux-headers-* supposed to end up on the CD?
[12:17] <Kamion> mdz: (right now, they don't; this is a bug)
[12:19] <Kamion> hm, just need to fix the seeds I think
[12:20] <RubenV> mjg59: well, anything needed to improve the use experience on my laptop
[12:20] <RubenV> maybe suspend or something, but i don't want to lose my work
[12:21] <RubenV> I'm an IT student but it should be possible to squeeze out some time between the studying
[12:22] <RubenV> for now, suspend doesn't work, but that's more nvidia's fault i think
[12:25] <mjg59> RubenV: Can you take a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001135.html ?
[12:26] <Kamion> mdz: seeds fixed, I think
[12:26] <RubenV> just read it half an hour ago
[12:26] <RubenV> i'll try it out today
[12:27] <RubenV> after a backup that is :)
[01:02] <mjg59> Hrm. The state of the sound drivers with respect to suspend/resume is fairly shocking.
[01:02] <daniels> mjg59: yah, some seem to need alsactl power off/alsactl power on
[01:03] <mjg59> What do people feel the best way of dealing with this would be? We can refuse to suspend if there are any applications using the sound device, we can kill any sound-using applications, we can try to fix the drivers...
[01:03] <mjg59> daniels: That doesn't seem to be sufficient
[01:03] <daniels> mjg59: wow, arse
[01:04] <mjg59> daniels: I'm already doing that in those scripts - the craptop (for one) then breaks horribly if esd happens to be talking to the device at the time
[01:05] <mjg59> Well, it comes back with esd in D state and anything that tries to play a sound (like, say, THE ENTIRE DESKTOP) then dies
[01:05] <robtaylor> mjg59: are the problems in a number of individual drivers or in the alsa generic code?
[01:07] <mjg59> Hard to tell.
[01:08] <mjg59> The errors I get on more than one machine are from the ac97 code, but that could just mean that the ac97 code isn't hearing what it expected from the hardware
[01:08] <mjg59> The easy thing to do with respect to the hardware would be to unload and reload the modules, but that'll break stuff
[01:08] <mjg59> (like anything that's using sound)
[01:08] <mjg59> Oh, hang on - is there a way to tell esd to stop accessing the hardware?
[01:09] <mjg59> There is, isn't there. Hmm.
[01:09] <mjg59> Then we just need to enforce accesses through esound.
[01:09] <robtaylor> mjg59: even is there was, that'd only help with esd using apps ;)
[01:09] <mjg59> robtaylor: Screw em.
[01:09] <robtaylor> heh
[01:10] <mjg59> Everything we ship in supported ought to be using esd (or whatever sound server we actually ship)
[01:10] <mjg59> robtaylor: Current situation is that I call alsactl power foo off in suspend and power foo on in resume
[01:11] <robtaylor> mjg59: is athere a partiuclat reason the alsa stuff cant use pm_callbacks?
[01:13] <mjg59> robtaylor: Oh, it probably /does/ - but there's the weird alsactl interface as well
[01:14] <mjg59> Oh. FFS.
[01:14] <robtaylor> ?
[01:14] <mjg59> esdctl suspend suspends esd, which then seems to make esd-using clients very unhappy
[01:15] <robtaylor> ugh
[01:15] <mjg59> They just start outputting very, very quickly to nothing
[01:15] <mjg59> Rather than doing the sane thing and blocking
[01:16] <mjg59> Whereas kill -STOPing esd does the right thing, but doesn't release the device
[01:17] <mjg59> What sound server are we going to be using for Hoary?
[01:19] <robtaylor> mjg59: what chipset is the craptop you're working on? 
[01:19] <mjg59> via ac97 thing
[01:20] <robtaylor> 82xx?
[01:20] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:21] <robtaylor> hmm, the drivers supsend/reusme code seems sane..
[01:21] <robtaylor> what happens without alsactl?
[01:22] <mjg59> Hrm. Dunno - must check.
[01:24] <robtaylor> could be a plan..
[01:26] <mjg59> polypaudio has no way to suspend and resume itself
[01:29] <mjg59> And it binds to /dev/dsp forever
[01:29] <mjg59> What a piece of shit
[01:30] <Kamion> mjg59: polypaudio, I *think*
[01:31] <mjg59> Kamion: Looks like it'll need some work, then...
[01:31] <Kamion> not encouraging that it's a POS :)
[01:31] <mjg59> Oh, it's probably fine for what it does
[01:31] <mjg59> It's just lacking in functionality
[01:32] <mjg59> jdub: Dude, why does polypaudio-x11 have no binaries in it?
[01:41] <robtaylor> mjg59: the in-kernel supsend/reusme code seems to switch the state between SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D0 /* full On */ and  SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D3hot /* Off, with power */ so i guess you should only use alsactl power if you need to use any other than these two states
[01:42] <robtaylor> and i guess you should check the drivers gone to power off hot before you go to power off cold, etc..
[01:43] <robtaylor> hmm
[01:43] <robtaylor> ok ignore that ;)
[01:59] <robtaylor> mjg59: hmm
[01:59] <robtaylor>        case SNDRV_CTL_POWER_D3cold:
[01:59] <robtaylor>                 if (card->power_state != power_state)
[01:59] <robtaylor>                         /* FIXME: pass the correct state value */
[01:59] <robtaylor>                         card->pm_suspend(card, 0);
[01:59] <robtaylor>                 break;
[01:59] <mjg59> Haha.
[01:59] <mjg59> Nothing actually tries to pass D3cold as far as I know, though
[02:01] <robtaylor> hmm, i guess a suspend to disk should probably do that  *shrug*
[02:03] <robtaylor> no suspend handlers seem to look at the state, so i guess that FIXME's pretty irrelevent
[02:13] <RubenV> mjg59: your 2.6.9 kernel doesn't boot on my laptop
[02:13] <RubenV> or not in a way i'm used to ;)
[02:14] <mjg59> Uh. Weird
[02:14] <mjg59> How so?
[02:14] <RubenV> when grub loads the kernel
[02:14] <RubenV> and it switches to fb
[02:14] <RubenV> the screen blanks
[02:14] <RubenV> and nothing gets outputted anymore
[02:14] <RubenV> (even if i omit the quiet & splash parameters)
[02:14] <mjg59> Hmm. It doesn't have any framebuffer support compiled in - they're all modules
[02:15] <mjg59> Oh, were you using vesafb?
[02:15] <RubenV> if vesa is the default, yes ;)
[02:16] <mjg59> Do you have a video= argument on your kernel command line?
[02:16] <RubenV> vga=792, that's all i have
[02:17] <mjg59> Can you get rid of that?
[02:17] <RubenV> ok
[02:17] <RubenV> kopt=root=/dev/hda3 ro nolapic vga=795 resume=/dev/hda1
[02:17] <RubenV> rest should be ok
[02:18] <RubenV> *rebooting*
[02:24] <RubenV> well, it boots
[02:24] <RubenV> nvidia certainly doesn't work anymore (but i expected that)
[02:29] <RubenV> this is weird: it does some kind of suspend thing (except that everything breaks when resuming)
[02:30] <RubenV> and the odd thing is: video comes back in stretched mode
[02:30] <RubenV> i disable video expension because it looks horrible :)
[02:33] <mjg59> RubenV: What do you mean by some kind of suspend thing?
[02:34] <RubenV> it starts suspend etc (got logs), flashes for a few seconds and ends up on a blank vt
[02:34] <RubenV> alt F1 brings me back home
[02:43] <Kamion> hm, arse, base-config throws a spurious error
[02:43] <Kamion> but installs successfully nevertheless
[02:43] <Kamion> FRESH ZORG
[02:43] <daniels> Kamion: fresh stylez
[02:43] <daniels> Kamion: you be a true playa, homie
[02:45] <daniels> Kamion: i'm wearing a hoodie right now, dude
[02:45] <daniels> because I am in the hood
[02:45] <Kamion> oh dear
[02:45] <Kamion> sod it, though, I'll probably release this as Array CD 1 if everything else works, and just release-note the bug
[02:46] <daniels> what's the b-c error?
[02:46] <Kamion> can't remove laptop-detect, 'cos fontconfig depends on it
[02:46] <fabbione> uh
[02:46] <fabbione> don't we need laptop-detect?
[02:47] <Kamion> it used to be that we only needed it during installation
[02:47] <Kamion> if you want it, depend on it
[02:47] <fabbione> Kamion: hmmmm but fontconfig uses it to detect if we are on lcd or not
[02:48] <Kamion> yes, well, we won't be removing it any more, will we now? :)
[02:48] <Kamion> seeing as we can't
[02:50] <mjg59> RubenV: Hmm. Could you mail me dmesg after it fails to suspend?
[02:51] <RubenV> to what address?
[02:55] <Mithrandir> it just feels wrong that fontconfig should depend on laptop-detect.
[02:59] <mjg59> RubenV: mjg59@srcf.ucam.org
[02:59] <RubenV> ok
[02:59] <RubenV> gonna retest it
[02:59] <mjg59> Thanks!
[02:59] <RubenV> to make sure i have the right dmesg :)
[03:10] <RubenV> mjg59: you've got mail
[03:12] <mjg59> RubenV: Thanks!
[03:14] <RubenV> let me know if you need more info or if I should try something
[03:14] <RubenV> when i tried suspending on 2.6.8 yesterday, i had to unload my ehci_hcd (which isn't used anyway) before it did anything
[03:15] <mjg59> RubenV: Hmm. Ok - what does /proc/swaps say?
[03:15] <mjg59> And /proc/cmdline ?
[03:15] <RubenV> immediately after suspending?
[03:15] <RubenV> or just in general
[03:15] <mjg59> In general
[03:16] <RubenV> *phew* no reboot then ;)
[03:16] <RubenV> lemme see
[03:16] <RubenV> root=/dev/hda3 ro nolapic resume=/dev/hda1 quiet splash
[03:17] <RubenV> Filename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority
[03:17] <RubenV> /dev/hda1                               partition       995988  0       -1
[03:17] <mjg59> Hmm.
[03:17] <tim1> there are 10+ package updates per day at hoary, to anybody who is responsible for that:
[03:17] <tim1> thank you very much :)
[03:18] <Kamion> DAILY CRACK
[03:18] <RubenV> if only i knew how to build em, i'd make it 11+ ;)
[03:18] <daniels> Kamion: LOVE THE CRACK
[03:19] <tim1> it says "never change a running system", but whent apt is smiling at me ..
[03:20] <RubenV> apt is much more mature
[03:20] <RubenV> love it
[03:20] <RubenV> and a gazillion time faster in dep calculation etc
[03:21] <Kamion> mvo_: Ubuntu-specific updates should get "XubuntuY" version numbers rather than "0.5.27.2"
[03:21] <robtaylor> feel the apt love
[03:22] <mjg59> RubenV: Ok, looks like one of your devices is failing to suspend
[03:22] <mjg59> RubenV: Could you possibly try booting using init=/bin/bash and then run /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh ?
[03:23] <RubenV> skipping the entire bootsequence and suspending right away?
[03:23] <RubenV> i'll do it in a sec :)
[03:23] <mjg59> RubenV: Yeah
[03:23] <mjg59> If that suspends and resumes, then we just need to figure out which of your devices is failing...
[03:24] <RubenV> will get lspci output too then
[03:31] <bob2> is the usb<->suspend nexus of fuckage a hardware or driver bug?
[03:33] <RubenV> argh
[03:33] <mjg59> bob2: Which one?
[03:33] <mjg59> RubenV: ?
[03:33] <RubenV> i just notice that the dmesg i just grabbed doesn't have any suspend output
[03:33] <bob2> mjg59: hm, it seems everyone with working suspend has to unload the host controller modules first
[03:33] <Mitario> yow
[03:33] <mvo_> hi Micksa 
[03:33] <RubenV> it however, did do something that looked like a suspend
[03:33] <mvo_> hi Mitario 
[03:33] <mvo_> :)
[03:34] <Mitario> hi :)
[03:34] <RubenV> bob2: you mean ehci_hcd which causes the suspend to abort?
[03:34] <mjg59> RubenV: It saved stuff to disk?
[03:34] <mvo_> Mitario: what do you use?
[03:34] <mjg59> bob2: That's less true in 2.6.9
[03:34] <bob2> RubenV: for example
[03:34] <Mitario> mvo_, chat ;)
[03:34] <Mitario> ehm, xchat
[03:34] <RubenV> mjg59: after suspending, I remounted / rw
[03:35] <RubenV> and did a dmesg > dmesg-minimal-boot in my homedir
[03:35] <mvo_> Mitario: hehe
[03:35] <mjg59> RubenV: It resumed back to the same state that you'd left it?
[03:35] <RubenV> maybe i should've grabbed the output of the hibernate script
[03:35] <RubenV> mjg59: it instantly woke up again
[03:35] <RubenV> don't know if it even suspended
[03:35] <mjg59> RubenV: Ah - was /proc mounted?
[03:36] <mjg59> And /sys?
[03:36] <RubenV> gonna give i another go
[03:36] <RubenV> afaik they were mounted
[03:36] <mjg59> Sorry, should have said
[03:36] <RubenV> but i'm gonna verify it again
[03:36] <mjg59> They won't be by default with init=/bin/bash
[03:36] <RubenV> (i checked mount and they did show up, i think)
[03:36] <RubenV> anyway, second try ;)
[03:36] <Kamion> I doubt that'll be reliable
[03:36] <mjg59> RubenV: Yeah, mtab won't have been rewritten at that stage
[03:36] <mjg59> RubenV: Hang on a sec
[03:36] <mjg59> RubenV: Can I give you a new kernel with extra debugging to try?
[03:37] <RubenV> right, ro fs
[03:37] <RubenV> sure
[03:37] <Kamion> you need to 'mount /proc' and then check /proc/mounts to see what's *actually* mounted
[03:37] <RubenV> oh, I'm on reiserfs
[03:37] <RubenV> please make sure it's in there ;)
[03:37] <Kamion> initrd, dude :)
[03:37] <mjg59> RubenV: Can you get http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/bzImage and copy it over the /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.9-1-386 file?
[03:38] <RubenV> 404?
[03:38] <mjg59> RubenV: Heh. Hang on, just copying it over
[03:38] <RubenV> :)
[03:39] <mjg59> RubenV: Ok, there now
[03:39] <RubenV> gaaah, i can't wait to throw away this ndis wlan
[03:39] <RubenV> wgetting :)
[03:39] <RubenV> ok
[03:40] <RubenV> gonna reboot that one
[03:40] <RubenV> mount proc & sys
[03:40] <RubenV> and grab all output i can find
[03:40] <mjg59> RubenV: If you could try that one in a fully booted state, that would be better
[03:40] <mjg59> It'll output information about the devices it's trying to suspend
[03:40] <RubenV> ok
[03:40] <RubenV> well, fully booted is not quite possible since X won't work
[03:41] <RubenV> but almost is as good als fully :)
[03:47] <Mitario> mvo_, what's the status on the arch repos? :)
[03:48] <mvo_> we have no mechanism to have a centralized arch repos ATM. we either need to develop with two different arch branches and merge them back
[03:48] <mvo_> or I can ask for a svn repo again
[03:49] <RubenV> mjg59: u got mail again :)
[03:49] <Mitario> mvo_ shall I request one? or do you want to do it?
[03:50] <mvo_> I will ask gustavo again for it
[03:50] <mjg59> RubenV: Thanks, just waiting for it to show up
[03:50] <Mitario> ok, thanks
[03:52] <mjg59> RubenV: Hmm. Surprising.
[03:52] <mvo_> Mitario: asked gustavo
[03:52] <mvo_> will probably take some hours
[03:52] <Mitario> ok, np
[03:52] <daniels> mvo_: um, you do know about pqm, right?
[03:53] <daniels> mvo_: and if you want centraliesd arch, you can use it -- myself and fabio are and it works fine
[03:53] <daniels> just like svn.  we both check out from, and commit to, the same repo
[03:53] <mjg59> RubenV: Your devices all seem to suspend correctly
[03:53] <mvo_> daniels: but it's only possible for people with chinstrap accounts, correct?
[03:54] <mvo_> and Mitario does not have one ...
[03:54] <daniels> mvo_: ah, right
[03:54] <Kamion> mvo_: you can always create your own
[03:54] <RubenV> mjg59: very strange
[03:55] <RubenV> gonna give it another go
[03:55] <mjg59> RubenV: So it's failing somewhere else. Let me try to track down the code it calls next...
[03:55] <RubenV> this time prepending hibernate with sleep 3
[03:55] <mvo_> Kamion: my own pqm? what do I need to do to set it up?
[03:55] <RubenV> so i don't make extra input ;)
[03:55] <RubenV> the strange thing is
[03:56] <Kamion> mvo_: surely just use a shared archive
[03:56] <RubenV> i see it releasing my dhcp lease etc, bringing the link down
[03:56] <Kamion> mvo_: pqm is a big load of complexity you don't need
[03:56] <RubenV> and immidiately after that it re -enables the link and brings everything back up
[03:56] <RubenV> *immediately
[03:57] <mvo_> Kamion: setting up my own means I need a server somewhere with accounts for all people that want to commit?
[03:57] <mirak> hi
[03:57] <tim1> hi
[03:57] <Kamion> mvo_: right
[03:57] <daniels> mvo_: (sort of like svn, yes)
[03:57] <mjg59> RubenV: Yeah, that's what'll happen if the suspend fails
[03:57] <mvo_> I don't have a server somewhere :P
[03:57] <mirak> I realised eclipse is available only as sources in multiverse
[03:57] <mirak> so I am trying to build the sources
[03:58] <mirak> but I have a problem with ant
[03:58] <mirak> it says it's not available
[03:59] <mirak> ok so I build ant then :)
[04:00] <mirak> why are some packages not available ?
[04:00] <rburton> normally as they didn't autobuild correctly
[04:00] <mirak> and what happens then ?
[04:01] <mirak> I mean what must be done in this case ?
[04:01] <mirak> who should be called ?
[04:03] <mjg59> RubenV: What does /sys/power/disk say?
[04:04] <RubenV> 404 :)
[04:04] <mjg59> Uh. That's odd.
[04:04] <RubenV> ruben@tokyo:/sys/power $ ls -l /sys/power/
[04:04] <RubenV> total 0
[04:04] <RubenV> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 4096 2004-11-11 15:44 state
[04:04] <mjg59> That's... very odd.
[04:04] <mjg59> Oh, are you using my kernel?
[04:04] <RubenV> aaaah :)
[04:04] <RubenV> sry :)
[04:04] <mjg59> Heh
[04:05] <RubenV> going for a reboot for that one
[04:05] <mjg59> Wait a sec
[04:05] <mjg59> Could you do cat /proc/acpi/sleep first?
[04:05] <mirak> when will this auto build or deps problem will be fixed ?
[04:05] <RubenV> S0 S1 S3 S4 S4bios S5
[04:05] <mjg59> RubenV: Ah!
[04:05] <pitti> fabbione: Hi!
[04:05] <mjg59> RubenV: Can you edit /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh and add
[04:05] <RubenV> hmmm? :)
[04:05] <pitti> fabbione: I just upgraded from xfree86 (warty) to hoary's xorg
[04:05] <mjg59> echo -n shutdown >/sys/power/disk
[04:05] <mjg59> just above
[04:06] <mjg59> echo -n disk >/sys/power/state
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: cool
[04:06] <pitti> fabbione: now the german keys do not work any more
[04:06] <mjg59> But replace the quotes with proper quotes
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: not so cool
[04:06] <RubenV> added it
[04:06] <pitti> daniels, fabbione: gnome does not show any keyboard layouts any more
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf | grep Xkb
[04:06] <RubenV> should i go test it?
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: yeah, I think control-center is broken
[04:06] <daniels> which version?
[04:06] <RubenV> after that i'll probably have to leave
[04:06] <pitti> daniels: sec, this is on the computer of my neighbor
[04:06] <RubenV> oh
[04:06] <RubenV> i'll test it tonight
[04:06] <daniels> you need a recent control-center
[04:06] <RubenV> visitor has arrived :)
[04:06] <pitti> daniels: on login it asked me whether to use the X or the gnome keys
[04:07] <pitti> daniels: my neighbor chose "gnome"
[04:07] <pitti> daniels: can I revert that choice?
[04:07] <fabbione> pitti: which version of the packages?
[04:07] <mirak> I am asking when this deps problem should be fixed because I will probably not keep ubuntu if it's too long
[04:07] <pitti> fabbione: hoary current
[04:07] <pitti> fabbione: 6.8.1-1ubuntu2
[04:08] <fabbione> pitti: check /etc/X11/xkb/rules/
[04:08] <fabbione> and see if xfree86* are symlinks to xorg*
[04:08] <daniels> mirak: ask on ubuntu-devel, sometimes it's because we just can't distribute it
[04:08] <pitti> fabbione, daniels: I just installed xserver-xorg, no other libraries. Shall I upgrade the libs as well?
[04:08] <daniels> pitti: yeah, dist-upgrade, dude
[04:08] <fabbione> pitti: i would say.. yes
[04:08] <mirak> daniels: well that's ubuntu-devel here no ?
[04:08] <daniels> mirak: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[04:08] <fabbione> pitti: please read what we wrote in the announcment
[04:08] <fabbione> this starts to be a FAQ
[04:09] <mirak> daniels: but the sources are in the repositories
[04:09] <pitti> fabbione: no xorg symlink
[04:09] <pitti> fabbione: just xfree
[04:10] <pitti> fabbione: if it depends on newer client libs, shouldn't this be a dependency then?
[04:10] <daniels> pitti: yeah, you need to dist-upgrade
[04:10] <daniels> pitti: not really, you can run the server just fine without any client libs
[04:10] <daniels> pitti: ditto client/server
[04:10] <pitti> daniels: hmm, a pity; I thought upgrading the server would be enuff
[04:10] <daniels> yeah, it won't be
[04:10] <daniels> full dist-upgrade recommended
[04:10] <pitti> daniels: okay, I have him upgrade
[04:11] <Kamion> mirak: sometime fairly soon we'll have the "masters of the universe" formed from community maintainers, who'll be able to fix this sort of thing; at the moment the core team just doesn't have the resources to deal with problems in universe/multiverse on a regular basis
[04:12] <mirak> Kamion: ok. I am not skilled enough to help on this (yet :)
[04:13] <mirak> Kamion: what do you mean by fairly soon ? a week ? a month ?
[04:13] <Kamion> don't know exactly, we're trying to set up community maintainers as a matter of some urgency
[04:15] <tim1> the current gksudo has a different beahviour than previous ones, the screen freezes and the only active widgets are the input field and the two buttons of the gksudo dialog
[04:15] <mirak> Kamion: community maintainers ?
[04:16] <tim1> somtimes there is also the border of the dialog missing
[04:16] <tim1> is that a wanted effect ?
[04:20] <mirak> Kamion: ok I think I will use a debian mirror to get missing packages then
[04:20] <mirak> however I know there is a command to put in apt conf to not use this sources for a dist-upgrade
[04:21] <mirak> but I don't remember it
[04:31] <fabbione> doko: ping
[04:50] <pitti> thom: here?
[04:50] <daniels> pitti: no, he's VACed
[04:50] <pitti> ah, bad :-(
[04:50] <pitti> daniels: I wanted Mr. Apache2 to review a patch :-)
[04:50] <daniels> i suspect he'll be somewhere over the east coast of the us right now
[04:50] <daniels> heh
[04:50] <daniels> i'm also allegedly an a2 co-maintainer
[04:51] <pitti> daniels: there's a new guy who wants to help out with security (Gerardo di Giacomo)
[04:51] <pitti> daniels: we two prepared a patch for CAN-2004-0942
[04:51] <daniels> how big is it?
[04:51] <pitti> daniels: its at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/2004-November/000007.html
[04:52] <pitti> daniels: I already tested and read the patch
[04:52] <pitti> daniels: it looks reasonably sane, but honestly I cannot truly claim it's safe without knowing the guts of apache
[04:53] <pitti> daniels: however, we took it from 2.0.53 cvs
[04:53] <daniels> it looks pretty sane to me
[04:53] <infinity> pitti : I already patched it in Sid.
[04:53] <daniels> but I can provide no guarantees
[04:53] <mirak> I added sid source and it seems to fix the missing packages
[04:53] <pitti> infinity: no regressions so far?
[04:53] <infinity> piiti : Looks fine to me.  YMMV.
[04:53] <pitti> infinity: okay, thanks
[04:54] <infinity> pitti : Want me to compare patches with yours? :)
[04:54] <pitti> infinity: I'd appreciate :-)
[04:57] <infinity> piiti : Except for some diff ordering weirdness (probably due to differing whitespace), it looks identical to the patch that's been in Debian for 4 or 5 days with no complaints (yet)
[04:57] <infinity> pitti : Do you have 2004-0885 patched as well?  If not, you can pull that from sid too.
[04:58] <pitti> infinity: yes, already patched
[04:58] <pitti> infinity: oi, that was already a month ago...
[04:59] <infinity> Yeah... It seemed to have slipped through the cracks.
[05:00] <infinity> (You're welcome to mail debian-apache, or bug me directly when you run into new vulns and you suspect I haven't been reading apacheweek like a good like maintainer)
[05:00] <pitti> infinity: up to now I just filed bugs against the Debian package if it has outstanding issues
[05:00] <pitti> infinity: however, I use to include a patch, and I want a verified one :-)
[05:00] <infinity> That works just as well too, yes.
[05:01] <infinity> I can dow ithout patches, generally, unless it's little or no effort on your part.
[05:01] <pitti> infinity: up to now it did. Sometimes I steal patches from Debian, sometimes I give them patches. Nice deal, I'd say :-)
[05:01] <pitti> infinity: okay, so is this the same patch as you applied?
... I intend to start following Ubuntu a bit more closely, and bouncing patches your way as well.
[05:02] <infinity> piiti : Other than whitespace, it looks identical.
[05:02] <pitti> infinity: okay, thanks
[05:02] <infinity> (Well, whitespace and the filename)
[05:02] <pitti> then I upload it to the queue to have it built
[05:04] <Kamion> fabbione: d'oh! I've just realised why it started to remove laptop-detect and so on
[05:04] <Kamion>         if ! dpkg --get-selections | grep xserver-xfree86 | grep -q install; then
[05:04] <Kamion> SPOT THE DELIBERATE MISTAKE
[05:04] <fabbione> whops
[05:04] <daniels> Kamion: (this is where you amend the archive to be in line with your mistake)
[05:04] <mjg59> Haha
[05:05] <azeem> reading the latest kerneltrap article about intel firmware, how does canonical handle that? Do you have an contract with Intel for the ipw2100 firmware?
[05:05] <mjg59> What ends up loading network hardware drivers? discover or hotplug?
[05:05] <daniels> hawtplug
[05:05] <Kamion> depends
[05:05] <Kamion> hotplug in the installed system
[05:05] <mjg59> Hmm.
[05:06] <daniels> discover doesn't actually run in the installed system
[05:06] <daniels> it just sits there looking pretty
[05:06] <Keybuk> daniels: surely you mean "an ugly blight that needs to be removed" ?
[05:06] <infinity> I get that confused with "pretty" all the time.
[05:06] <infinity> They sound so similar.
[05:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: we only use discover in X postinst to pick an X server
[05:06] <fabbione> config
[05:07] <fabbione> not in postinst
[05:07] <Keybuk> uh, yes, config
[05:07] <fabbione> tsk
[05:07] <fabbione> :P
[05:08] <tseng> g'night daniels 
[05:13] <mjg59> RubenV: When you're back, the acpi-support package in my archive ought to work for you now
[05:19] <Mitario> going home
[05:19] <Mitario> cya guys soon
[05:48] <stratus> daniels, around?
[05:49] <Nafallo> just a thought for the topic on the mailinglist. is there any way to make anacron run those jobs it should run when systemload is below a specified percentage?
[05:52] <mdz> Kamion: they should be replaced by the linux-headers-foo metpackages; I assume that's what you did to fix it
[05:55] <Kamion> mdz: right
[05:56] <mdz> my changelog was not entirely adequate for that change
[05:56] <Kamion> did that, rebuilt CDs, released :)
[05:56] <Kamion> time to debug that kbd-chooser weirdness now
[05:56] <mdz> most of the -2.6- packages disappeared, but where there was a -2.6-foo but no corresponding -foo, I renamed it
[05:56] <Kamion> I grokked what had happened by looking at the contents of the linux-meta directory on my mirror
[05:57] <mxpxpod> have you guys tested hoary on ibook g4's?
[05:57] <Kamion> warty yes, not sure if anyone's explicitly tested hoary but it should be fine
[05:58] <mxpxpod> Kamion: I'm wondering if xorg will throw my radon 9200 mobility for loops
[05:58] <Kamion> oh hm, ibook g3 and powerbook g4, don't know if we have any ibook g4s around actually
[05:58] <mxpxpod> what graphics card does the pb g4 have?
[05:58] <Kamion> my model is a Radeon 9500
[05:58] <mxpxpod> hrmm
[05:59] <Kamion> sorry, make that 9600
[05:59] <Kamion> I should think yours will be better supported if anything
[05:59] <Kamion> (than mine)
[05:59] <mxpxpod> yeah, i would think so too...
[06:00] <mxpxpod> how much of gnome 2.9 is in hoary?
[06:01] <mxpxpod> also, is gtk+ 2.5 abi compatible with gtk+ 2.4?
[06:04] <pitti> Morning mdz!
[06:05] <seb128> mxpxpod: all the modules released
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: just for checking, do you get mails to security-review@?
[06:05] <mdz> pitti: I suppose I do, since I received the welcome message
[06:05] <mxpxpod> seb128: will programs compiled for gtk+ 2.4 work with 2.5?
[06:05] <mxpxpod> seb128: such as libgtkmm
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: ugh, there was a whole bunch of messages already
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: pending fixes for openssl, mysql, bogofilter, apache2
[06:05] <seb128> mxpxpod: sure, new GNOME versions are binary compatible
[06:06] <mxpxpod> seb128: ok, cool
[06:06] <mxpxpod> seb128: I just don't want to install hoary if it's going to screw up development of coaster
[06:06] <mdz> pitti: they are sorted to a low-priority mailbox presently
[06:06] <mxpxpod> tseng: heh, no thanks
[06:06] <pitti> mdz: okay, I just wanted to verify that you get them.
[06:06] <mxpxpod> tseng: I have enough problems just developing it :)
[06:07] <seb128> mxpxpod: but maybe you'll face some bug, that's still a devel branch ...
[06:07] <mxpxpod> seb128: yeah, I'll wait
[06:07] <seb128> mxpxpod: if you want a 100% stable system keep warty
[06:07] <mxpxpod> seb128: :)
[06:07] <Kamion> you can always use a chroot (either way round) if need be
[06:07] <tseng> someone in #ub said hoary is 80% stable
[06:07] <tseng> id tend to agree with that
[06:08] <mxpxpod> Kamion: heh, I don't really want to deal with chroots
[06:11] <mdz> pitti: you invited the people who volunteered for security work to the list, right?
[06:11] <mdz> pitti: have they been active at all?
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: right now I invited Gerardo and Joey
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: Astharot (Gerardo) already helped me today
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: Joey did not subscribe yet
[06:12] <mdz> pitti: sivang said he was interested in security as well
[06:13] <pitti> mdz: another guy subscribed, too, but I did not hear anything from him so far
[06:13] <pitti> mdz: I can invite him, too
[06:19] <mirak> in synaptic, what means the orange circle of people near some packages ?
[06:20] <tseng> that means its supported
[06:27] <Keybuk> def check_katie(m, env):
[06:27] <Keybuk>     """Check that the mail really comes from katie."""
[06:27] <Keybuk>     if not "X-Katie" in m:
[06:27] <Keybuk>         return Q_FINAL
[06:27] <Keybuk>     return Q_OK
[06:27] <Keybuk> \o/
[06:28] <mdz> thanks
[06:28] <mdz> mvo_: is it possible to add balloon help to the ubuntu/supported icon in synaptic?
[06:29] <mvo_> mdz: unfortunately not as the GtkTreeView does not support tooltips
[06:29] <Keybuk> mvo_: why doesn't it?
[06:30] <mvo_> Keybuk: why it doesn't support tooltips?
[06:30] <Keybuk> tip = gtk_tooltips_new ();
[06:31] <Keybuk> gtk_tooltips_set_tip (GTK_TOOLTIPS (tip), ubuntu_icon, "Ubuntu-supported package", NULL);
[06:31] <Keybuk> if the icon doesn't have an X window, just stick it into a GtkEventBox
[06:32] <mvo_> Keybuk: thanks :) I'll check this out
[06:33] <Keybuk> box = gtk_event_box_new ();
[06:33] <Keybuk> gtk_container_add (GTK_CONTAINER (box), ubuntu_icon);
[06:33] <Keybuk> then set the tip on the event box
[06:33] <Keybuk> (assuming it's just an image, or something)
[06:33] <mvo_> Keybuk: the GtkTreeView does not support tooltips for individual rows, but as we don't need it, you idea is very welcome
[06:36] <Keybuk> I assume it doesn't provide an X window for every row, and probably just has a large X window for the whole thing
[06:36] <Keybuk> it would only be half a dozen lines of code, if that, to add per-row tip support if you wanted
[06:36] <Keybuk> but you just want it on the icon, which is a widget anyway -- so you can apply the tip to just that, adding an event box if it the widget you picked doesn't have an X window
[06:38] <mvo_> the icon is a GdkPixbuf object
[06:38] <mvo_> there is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80980 for "real" tooltip support
[06:39] <mvo_> the supported column is a GtkCellRendererPixbuf, so I can't just put a GtkWidget into it
[06:44] <Keybuk> change it to a general widget cell?
[06:46] <mvo_> Keybuk: I don't think there is a general widget cell renderer available, only GtkCellRenderer{Text,Pixbuf,Toggle,Progress}
[06:47] <pitti> sjoerd: here?
[06:50] <Keybuk> really?  I haven't honestly played with treeview that much ... how odd :)
[06:51] <mvo_> Keybuk: it's not alway fun to work with it :) I had a hard time to help speeding it up to cope with the ~14.000 packages debian has
[06:51] <mvo_> it used to be very slow for that amount of data
[06:52] <Keybuk> cheat :)  add a lightbulb and "Packages marked with the Ubuntu logo  are supported by Ubuntu"
[06:53] <mvo_> the funny thing is, it's already in the icon legend (Help/Icon legend). but people never read the help anyway :P
[06:54] <Keybuk> Nor the FAQ ... http://www.qi.com/faq.html
[07:11] <mirak> hi
[07:12] <infinity> lamont_r : Just a recompile in all cases I've seen.
[07:12] <mirak> I get this error "No volume control elements and/or devices found." when running gnome-volume-control . I am not the only one. I use alsa.
[07:12] <mirak> I know it's not support, but well there is weird things about sound
[07:14] <mjg59> Why do half the wiki pages say Do not edit this page, and what am I supposed to edit instead?
[07:16] <mjg59> Oh, I see
[07:17] <lamont_r> infinity: cool, I think
[07:21] <Keybuk> mdz: how about we add anacron to base now ... while the release is young, and then if any problems come up on 24/7 machines we move it to supported before the release is out?
[07:21] <mdz> Keybuk: as I just sent to -devel, I think it's definitely a desktop thing, and not a base thing
[07:21] <Keybuk> yeah, desktop would be a good target too
[07:22] <Mitario> lo veryone
[07:22] <mdz> what bothers me is that upstream's response to problems from people who use it on systems which are not regularly shut down is "why are you using anacron, you dolt?"
[07:23] <Keybuk> generally the only kind of complaints I've ever seen is that it doesn't run jobs at particular times, dates, etc.
[07:23] <Keybuk> but just once (e.g.) a month has passed since the last time it run it
[07:23] <lamont_r> mdz: so why are you using anacron, eh?
[07:23] <mdz> Keybuk: so with anacron, my cron.daily won't run at 0625 anymore?
[07:25] <Keybuk> yeah they do :)
[07:27] <Keybuk> it actually puts a "daily" crontab into cron to ensure the daily clock ticks at the right time
[07:28] <Keybuk> the other option is to drop vixie cron and use something like fcron
[07:28] <seb128> elmo: sync for dia and inkscape please
[07:29] <mdz> Keybuk: fcron would provide the functionality of cron and anacron both?
[07:29] <Keybuk> yeah, at least so it claims
[07:29] <Keybuk> I've never actually tried it
[07:31] <mdz> Keybuk: a google for fcron security stuff is not very encouraging
[07:31] <lamont_r> fabbione/daniels around?
[07:32] <mdz> lamont_r: what are the dates for your trip again?
[07:32] <Keybuk> mdz: indeed
[07:32] <lamont_r> mdz: the current one
[07:32] <lamont_r> ?
[07:32] <mjg59> How do I tell the wiki that something with capital letters is not a link?
[07:32] <mdz> lamont_r: one sometime this month, no?
[07:32] <lamont_r> working from the bay area this week, while traveling
[07:32] <mdz> mjg59: squint
[07:32] <Keybuk> personally I recommend anacron, I think it does exactly what it's supposed to do
[07:33] <pitti> I use anacron for years now without apparent problems
[07:33] <lamont_r> tomorrow is virtual-vetrans'-day, conf runs fri afternoon thru sunday.
[07:33] <mdz> lamont_r: ah, ok.  when is the conference, and when do you get back?
[07:33] <lamont_r> then working remotely next week
[07:33] <pitti> mdz: can you still remember which problems you had with anacron?
[07:33] <mdz> ok
[07:33] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. I'd like people to be able to cut and paste.
[07:33] <lamont_r> back at home sometime late on the 21st
[07:33] <Keybuk> makes sure that the daily, weekly and monthly housekeeping tasks happen if that time period has passed since the last time they happened
[07:33] <lamont_r> mdz: but no actual real vacation time
[07:33] <lamont_r> or so goes the master plan.. :)
[07:33] <mdz> mjg59: which page are we talking about?
[07:34] <mjg59> mdz: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PMTesting
[07:34] <mjg59> It's got Option VBERstore? Enabled
[07:34] <mdz> mjg59: surround that section with {{{ and }}}
[07:34] <mjg59> mdz: Ah, thanks
[07:35] <mdz> mjg59: that's for code snippets; you should also be able to use backticks to quote words
[07:41] <mdz> lamont_r: the buildds are pretty well caught up, right?
[07:41] <mdz> lamont_r: how are buildd separation and the gnutls transition going?
[07:42] <lamont_r> mdz: ogre-model is in place. (buildd separation) - main now builds with only main (and that's why i've been poking elmo wrt unknown/ stuff of late - if it's not main, it winds up being given-back.  repeatedly)
[07:42] <lamont_r> gnutls transition was something seb128 said he was working on, so I was letting him.
[07:42] <lamont_r> currently catching up on merge-o-matic mail
[07:45] <Nafallo> hehe. ogre is my server :-P.
[07:46] <lamont_r> Nafallo: "ogres have layers"
[07:47] <Nafallo> hehe
[07:48] <lamont_r> mdz: if I run out of merge-o-matic stuff, I'll see if seb is awake and deal with gnutls
[07:48] <lamont_r> that is co-ordinate which ones I'm stealing :-)
[07:51] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. That gives me fixed-width fonts, but doesn't remove the question mark.
[07:51] <Keybuk> lamont_r: Alt+Click ?
[07:53] <lamont_r> Keybuk: nope.
[07:54] <lamont_r> anybody know about sager laptops and touchpads?
[07:55] <mdz> mjg59: I think that's probably a bug in zwiki, then
[07:55] <mdz> mjg59: ISTR it did both in moin
[07:59] <Kamion> mdz: "CW"?
[08:00] <mdz> Kamion: conventional wisdom
[08:02] <Kamion> aha, I thought the W was wisdom but couldn't expand the C
[08:15] <lamont_r> hrm.. how was it that I got the wondow list bar to self-hide when not selected?
[08:15] <lamont_r> (that thang at the bottom of the screen...)
[08:15] <mjg59> Oh, christ, even if I tell it to just use HTML it *still* sticks its fucking question marks all over the place
[08:16] <mdz> mjg59: this should probably be added to WikiWishlist if it isn't there already
[08:17] <infinity> mjg59 : I'm not a wiki guru, but doesn't [=MixedCaseWord=]  avoid the question mark (or something alon g those lines)...
[08:17] <Kamion> depends wildly on the particular wiki
[08:17] <ChrisH> infinity: it does
[08:17] <Kamion> with Twiki it's <nop>MixedCaseWord
[08:19] <mjg59> Eat that, parser.
[08:24] <_rene_> elmo: ping
[08:28] <Kamion> mjg59: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpForBeginners suggests either VBE''''''Restore or VBE``Restore
[08:30] <mjg59> Eww.
[08:30] <mjg59> I prefer my solution.
[08:32] <Kamion> you should be able to lose the first two comments in your solution
[08:32] <Kamion> I don't think VBE counts as CamelCase by itself
[08:42] <elmo> seb128: done
[08:42] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[08:43] <amu> daniels: i diffed xorg and xfree config, they are identical, correct?  
[08:43] <elmo> lamont: the unknown's got fixed last night, AFAICS
[08:44] <lamont_r> elmo: cool.
[08:46] <Kamion> oh great, hoary-changes is getting spam now?
[08:49] <mako> Kamion: on the moderated lists we get half a dozen messages a day already
[08:50] <mako> it doesn't take very long
[08:50] <Kamion> oh, rock, I think the kbd-chooser brokenness in array-1 is fixed already thanks to a merge from Debian, so just needs an initrd rebuild
[08:50] <Kamion> aha, and I even have an excuse here to upload debian-installer
[08:53] <Kamion> mdz: do we have word on whether we're accepting ia64 uploads to hoary?
[08:55] <mdz> Kamion: I know of no reason that we shouldn't
[08:56] <_rene_> elmo: is it "normal" that arm ld behaves different than the other archs?
[08:56] <Kamion> I should knock together a quick linux-kernel-di-ia64-2.6 at some point, pending having udebs done directly in linux-source
[08:56] <Kamion> although I guess that's blocking on having linux-source with ia64 support
[08:56] <_rene_> elmo: i.e. -lkdeui works on i386, powerpc, sparc, s390 but on arm I need -lkdeui -lqt-mt -lkdecore to get no unresolved symbols
[08:56] <elmo> _rene_: dude, ubuntu doesn't have an arm port - if this is about Debian, please privmsg me or take it to a debian channel (e.g. #debian-release)
[08:57] <_rene_> elmo: yes, but sou are not reachable in #debian-* channels...
[08:57] <_rene_> s/sou/you/
[08:57] <elmo> _rene_: that's demonstrably not true
[08:57] <_rene_> I didn't see you on both -devels
[08:57] <_rene_> anyway
[08:57] <mdz> Kamion: ia64 in linux-source is a T-bone kind of job I think
[08:57] <elmo> as I said, there's #debian-release, or privmsg
[08:58] <Kamion> mdz: indeed; does he have upload privileges yet?
[08:58] <Kamion> right, bored now, I'm going to remove those spurious devfs=mount,dall options from our debian-installer
[08:58] <Kamion> better it breaks hoary than sarge :)
[08:59] <elmo> dude, remove devfs - that'd be way cooler ;P
[08:59] <Kamion> elmo: will do soon :)
[09:00] <Kamion> it's basically next on my list
[09:04] <mdz> Kamion: if he doesn't already, he should, after Tuesday's CC meeting
[09:19] <lamont_r> elmo: please sync libselinux_1.18-1
[09:19] <lamont_r> k thanks bye.
[09:19] <doko> elmo: please sync mailman
[09:32] <jdub> morning
[09:32] <pitti> elmo: for doing the language packs I need to modify a large number of packages (OO.o, the mozilla stuff and so on).
[09:32] <seb128> hey jdub 
[09:32] <cenerentola> morning
[09:32] <pitti> elmo: since my bandwidth is somewhat limited and my computer is not the fastest one, is it possible to get a hoary dchroot in the DC for this stuff?
[09:33] <pitti> Hi jdub!
[09:45] <_rene_> pitti: what do you need to modify on OOo wrt language packs?
[09:45] <pitti> Oh, hi _rene_! Nice to see my ol' sponsor! :-)
[09:46] <_rene_> pitti: there is already those -l10n-* packages
[09:46] <pitti> _rene_: I only need to change the dependencies
[09:46] <_rene_> pitti: same the other way round
[09:46] <_rene_> pitti: uh? to what?
[09:46] <pitti> _rene_: the language packs should be installable without the main oo.o package
[09:46] <_rene_> ah, that shit
[09:46] <pitti> _rene_: so instead of depending on the main OO.o, they should conflict to all other versions
[09:47] <_rene_> eh?
[09:47] <pitti> _rene_: I just tried that out with some --force-depends magic, it works
[09:47] <pitti> _rene_: the problem is, we don't want to have ubuntu-language-de uninstalled just because the user uninstalls mozilla
[09:47] <pitti> _rene_: or OO.o
[09:48] <pitti> _rene_: but currently you cannot uninstall OO.o without uninstalling the l10n packages
[09:48] <pitti> _rene_: same for mozilla/firefox/thunderbird stuff
[09:48] <_rene_> which makes sense
[09:48] <_rene_> since that package is useless without OOo
[09:48] <_rene_> :)
[09:48] <_rene_> but well, I am no ubuntu dev...
[09:48] <pitti> _rene_: so instead of having ooo-de_1 depend on ooo-1
[09:49] <pitti> _rene_: I want to have ooo-de-1 conflict to ooo < 1 and ooo > 1
[09:49] <pitti> _rene_: makes sense? The conflicts ensure that you don't mix different versions
[09:49] <pitti> _rene_: but they allow to have the l10n package installed without oo.o itself
[09:49] <_rene_> which doesn't make sense
[09:49] <pitti> _rene_: of course the l10nn package is useless then
[09:50] <_rene_> exactly
[09:50] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[09:50] <_rene_> hmm
[09:50] <pitti> _rene_: but we want to have general language packs, so we have to live with this waste
[09:50] <pitti> Hi sjoerd !
[09:50] <_rene_> I see
[09:50] <pitti> _rene_: it's a relatively unintrusive patch
[09:50] <_rene_> so something like kde-i18n-de does
[09:50] <pitti> _rene_: If you do not want to adopt it for Debian, it should not be a problem to keep it in Ubuntu
[09:51] <_rene_> which you could install without kdebase iirc
[09:51] <sjoerd> pitti: morning :)
[09:51] <_rene_> pitti: yes, maybe. as I said, I am no ubuntu dev
[09:51] <pitti> _rene_: I know, it makes sense only at the second look
[09:51] <_rene_> I have already two distris, not a third please :)
[09:51] <pitti> _rene_: the idea is: you choose "de" in the installer
[09:51] <pitti> _rene_: and this will isntall ubuntu-l-de
[09:51] <_rene_> I see what you want to do
[09:52] <pitti> _rene_: and you automatically have german mozilla, OO.o, spellcheck and so on
[09:52] <jdub> Kamion: ROCK!
[09:52] <pitti> _rene_: can I send you the patch as wishlist bug, or won't you apply it to Debian anyway?
[09:53] <Nafallo> pitti: now that I to understand those parts. I like it :-).
[09:53] <mjg59> x86 laptop owners, I still need YOU
[09:53] <RubenV> mjg59: when the visit's gone ;)
[09:53] <Nafallo> mjg59: not amd64 then?
[09:53] <_rene_> because they were removed since they depended on oo.o which depends on oo.o-bin which only is available on four/five archs
[09:53] <mjg59> Nafallo: Afraid not, at the moment
[09:53] <mjg59> Your time will come
[09:54] <mjg59> (at around the same time as I get an amd64 laptop...)
[09:54] <pitti> _rene_: basically we want sth similar like the old l10n tasks
[09:54] <_rene_> pitti: I have to think about it and discuss it
[09:54] <Nafallo> mjg59: just tell me when :-)
[09:54] <_rene_> I see the sense in this..
[09:54] <pitti> _rene_: sure! :-) If you aren't completely opposed, I can file it as wishlist in Debian's BTS
[09:54] <_rene_> well, wishlist is wishlist ;-)
[09:55] <_rene_> but please do that against 1.1.3
[09:55] <pitti> _rene_: is the control file so much different?
[09:55] <pitti> _rene_: I'd really like to see OO.o 1.1.3 in Hoary, but I don't know how long it will take
[09:55] <_rene_> not really, but the virtual package has changed etc
[09:55] <pitti> _rene_: anyway, we will have it and at that time I have to adapt the patch anyway
[09:56] <_rene_> pitti: take it from experimental, test it, fix bugs, send patches.. ;)
[09:56] <pitti> _rene_: believe it or not, I already tried to pull 1.1.3 from experimental on my iBook
[09:56] <pitti> _rene_: but this did not work, some dependencies could not be fulfilled
[09:56] <_rene_> huh?
[09:56] <jdub> amu: around?
[09:56] <pitti> _rene_: might also have been my fault, I did not really try very hard
[09:57] <_rene_> anyway, back to OOo/ARM porting ;-(
[09:58] <pitti> _rene_: right, back to security updates :-)
[09:58] <pitti> _rene_: will you be around from time to time here?
[09:58] <_rene_> maybe. not sure. getting involved in ubuntu development would make this the third distro i am involved with...
[09:59] <_rene_> and I don't have a job related to debian ;-)
[10:00] <Nafallo> mjg59: damnit. don't make me eager to try it ;-)
[10:00] <Nafallo> mjg59: it might aswell work?
[10:01] <mjg59> Nafallo: I don't have an amd64 build environment, so building amd64 kernels and support apps is a bit awkward at the moment :)
[10:01] <amu> jdub: yep
[10:02] <Nafallo> mjg59: well. I have hacked my wireless driver to work with amd64. I might try to make a few steps more into understanding programming? :-)
[10:03] <Nafallo> mjg59: the least I get is the improvement on my learning scale :-P.
[10:04] <RubenV> mjg59: do nvidia drivers actually have suspend support?
[10:04] <Mitario> lo again
[10:04] <RubenV> i hate the bloody things, but the nv driver doesn't support 1680x1050 resolution
[10:07] <Nafallo> mjg59: hmm, you really do need 2.6.9?
[10:10] <mjg59> Nafallo: Ideally, yes
[10:10] <mjg59> Nafallo: It's been somewhat patched
[10:10] <mjg59> RubenV: Hrm. Good question.
[10:10] <Nafallo> hmm, that version isn't even in hoary for amd64 :-P
[10:10] <mjg59> RubenV: It's possible that they don't properly, which is likely to make things difficult
[10:10] <RubenV> else it's bit dull to suspend if i have to disable X to suspend ;)
[10:10] <mjg59> Nafallo: 2.6.9 isn't in Ubuntu at all
[10:10] <mjg59> RubenV: There's some chance that it'll work in any case
[10:11] <mjg59> RubenV: It depends how much of the kernel code is in use at the time...
[10:11] <RubenV> gonna retest in a while
[10:11] <mjg59> RubenV: Rock
[10:12] <Nafallo> mjg59: I might try to install debians kernel? :-)
[10:12] <RubenV> i rather prefer techno ;)
[10:12] <mjg59> Nafallo: As I said, it's fairly heavily patched
[10:13] <mjg59> The swsusp code has been modified in order to make stuff work
[10:13] <sjoerd> pitti: i've got some ideas how we can change hal+gvm+pmount in debian to run under user priviledged by default without regressions (i.e. not mounting fixed drives)
[10:14] <sjoerd> pitti: but i've got to do homework now and probably tomorrow, so i'll ping you later if you don't mind
[10:14] <pitti> sjoerd: moment, telephone
[10:14] <Nafallo> ahh, YOU'RE patches. I thought you meant that code in the vanilla kernels from 2.6.8.1 -> 2.6.9 :-P
[10:16] <Nafallo> well, time to sleep. see you later everyone!
[10:18] <_rene_> pitti: ich sehe gerade, die diskussion landet auf debian-openoffice
[10:18] <_rene_> ;-)
[10:19] <_rene_> umm, ELANG
[10:19] <pitti> _rene_: gerade am tel, aber ich schau mal rein...
[10:19] <pitti> _rene_: irc oder ml?
[10:19] <_rene_> pitti: ich denke, Du kriegst unsere Untersttzung
[10:19] <_rene_> pitti: ml
[10:20] <_rene_> Chris hat wohl auf ne ubuntu-devel mail geantwortet
[10:20] <pitti> _rene_: sounds good :-)
[10:20] <_rene_> argh, immernoch falsche sprache :(
[10:35] <elmo> lamont/doko: done
[10:35] <lamont_r> elmo: thanks
[10:37] <Mitario> nite all
[10:37] <pitti> night
[10:40] <lamont_r> pitti: around?
[10:40] <pitti> lamont: yes, telephone
[10:41] <Kyaneos> hi
[10:43] <pitti> lamont_r/sjoerd: back
[10:44] <doko> elmo: thanks
[10:45] <sjoerd> pitti: see your backlog :)
[10:45] <pitti> sjoerd: I know ;-)
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: Did you follow the discussion on d-devel?
[10:46] <sjoerd> yeah
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: today I moved the device node plugdev code from udev to hal
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: I think this makes much more sense 
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: and it eases the switch
[10:46] <sjoerd> yeah sounds sane
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: what would you change to make hal mount static disks?
[10:46] <pitti> sjoerd: or, rather, pmount?
[10:47] <pitti> sjoerd: just the policy?
[10:47] <sjoerd> we probably should include a hotplug script to do umount -l, so we can rip that code out of hal
[10:47] <pitti> sjoerd: i. e. throw out the removable check?
[10:47] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, that would be great
[10:47] <sjoerd> no, if the fsusage is empty gvm can check if it's in fstab and then mount it anyway
[10:47] <sjoerd> that will make stuff work again on fixed drives that are in fstab
[10:48] <sjoerd> without blindly trying to mount everything
[10:48] <sjoerd> but i'm continuing homework now :)
[10:50] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, I see what you mean
[10:51] <sjoerd> haven't really thought it over yet though
[10:52] <jdub> hey sjoerd 
[10:52] <sjoerd> jdub: morning
[10:55] <elmo> pike7.4/amd64 is the last uninstallable in hoary ...
[10:56] <sjoerd> jdub: could you check out the howl patch i sent, that would make it possible for people to build exp. G2.8 on alpha :)
[10:57] <jdub> yes, will do
[10:57] <jdub> today even :)
[10:57] <sjoerd> thanks :)
[11:19] <sladen> ...
[11:19] <Keybuk> sladen: ?
[11:20] <sladen> it's ironic that the term 'wikiwiki' originally came from a *high-speed* bus service
[11:20] <jdub> *cough*
[11:21] <wasabi_> Howdy. How "open" is the Wiki? I have a page I'd like to stick up detailing a proposal for a Ubuntu system tool I plan to work on "sometime" that I'd like immortalized. Is that appropiate for the wiki? Don't want to get yelled at.
[11:23] <jdub> yeah
[11:23] <wasabi_> super.
[11:25] <wasabi_> the registrion email for the wiki directs to wiki.ubuntu.com, not www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki
[11:32] <mirak> is there something similar to pmount but for non device block file systems ?
[11:33] <wasabi_> well now i've totally messed up my site account.
[11:50] <wasabi_> so much for all teh wiki markup i've ever used