[12:01] <thom> quite possibly the former
[12:01] <pitti> Hi thom! Just to let you know, I asked elmo to sync all firefox l10n packages from sid, to have up-to-date 1.0 versions. Warty's version did not have any ubuntu specific changes
[12:01] <mdz> ...leading me to review the ubuntu diff
[12:01] <thom> there are a bunch of patches that may well need review and updating for 1.0
[12:01] <mdz> which is buried in autogenerated cruft
[12:02] <thom> which you can safely drop if you just want to drop in the branding changes, and i can review when i get back
[12:02] <thom> pitti: rock
[12:02] <thom> pitti: last i looked there was only one 1.0 pack, so i guess that'sd change? :-)
[12:03] <mdz> thom: where did this pango stuff come from?
[12:04] <mdz> I'm not even sure what high-level changes are supposed to be in this diff beyond the branding stuff; I'd need to dig up a copy of the pre-0.9.3-reverted changelog
[12:06] <pitti> thom: I saw several packs
[12:06] <pitti> thom: however, I still see -ubuntu versions, so something might have went wrong with the sync
[12:06] <pitti> thom: or debian's version was even older; however, the 0.9.3 version just crashes, so it was not useful anyway
[12:06] <pitti> thom: but I need these 1.0 versions to do Ubuntu language packs
[12:06] <thom> mdz: the pango stuff is stolen from redhat; i'm still unsure if we want to keep them
[12:06] <thom> pitti: yeah, only 1.0 packs are useful, anything older is not useful
[12:07] <mdz> thom: sure, but even less certain is how it colud possibly affect the defaults.ini stuff
[12:07] <thom> it can't - it's not even enabled unless you pass firefox an env var
[12:07] <mdz> right
[12:08] <mdz> so I've read through the entire ubuntu diff and I find no possible way it is causing this problem
[12:08] <mdz> leaving "mdz's build environment is subtly b0rked" and "sunspots"
[12:08] <mdz> maybe I should just upload the source and see if it happens with the buildd binaries :-P
[12:09] <pitti> thom: 5 packs are 1.0, 4 are older (still ubuntu versions)
[12:10] <thom> mdz: hrm
[12:11] <thom> mdz: are you on amd64 by any chance?
[12:12] <mdz> thom: nope
[12:17] <Mithrandir> thom: the libc fix worked for you, didn't it?
[12:17] <thom> Mithrandir: yes
[12:20] <thom> Mithrandir: but firefox without patches unsets gcc and g++ in some directories
[12:20] <Mithrandir> huh?
[12:21] <thom> um, CC and CXX
[12:21] <thom> so you get some libraries built with 3.3 on amd64
[12:21] <Mithrandir> that's soooo crackful.
[12:21] <thom> which causes firefox to segfault
[12:21] <Mithrandir> obviously.
[12:21] <thom> was wondering if that was what mdz was seeing
[12:21] <Mithrandir> but why does it touch CC and CXX at all?
[12:22] <thom> they haven't bothered integrating security/ with the autoconf system
[12:26] <Mithrandir> there's really no reason for a Makefile to override CC and CXX
[12:27] <thom> no
[01:19] <shaya> thom: do you have any way to test NetworkManager w/ madwifi?
[01:19] <thom> no
[01:20] <shaya> have any clue why it would cause my device to constantly scan?
[01:21] <bob2> how does on get the networkmanager applet to appear?
[01:21] <thom> bob2: one runs NetworkManagerInfo
[01:22] <thom> shaya: fraid not, check the mailing list though
[01:22] <bob2> thom: hm, did that, but nada
[01:23] <thom> you have a notification area?
[01:24] <bob2> yeah
[01:26] <thom> is NMI running?
[01:28] <bob2> yes
[01:28] <bob2> when I restarted hal it said it was starting networkmanager
[01:31] <thom> yup
[01:31] <thom> so you should have NetworkManager, NetworkManagerInfo, and NetworkManagerNotification running
[01:31] <bob2> right
[01:32] <thom> all three? and nada?
[01:32] <thom> killall NetworkManagerInfo
[01:34] <bob2> hm, killall doesn't work for some reason, but after killing the pid it respawns
[01:35] <thom> yup
[01:35] <thom> and you still have no notification icon?
[01:35] <bob2> yup
[01:35] <thom> you suck
[01:36] <bob2> true
[01:38] <nasdaq4088> i want to create an attractive user interface for one of my programs - does anyone know where i can find nice icons, tutorials, toolbars etc. ?
[01:38] <nasdaq4088> for developers
[02:53] <robertj> any news on the new software installation program for horary?
[03:03] <jdub> robertj: apt-get install gnome-app-install
[03:03] <robertj> oooh
[03:05] <sivang> jdub : wow, koool
[03:06] <robertj> I like
[03:07] <chrisa> Is that to replace synaptic?
[03:07] <robertj> chrisa, not its a supplament
[03:07] <robertj> err, no it's a supplament
[03:08] <robertj> How do those menus get populated
[03:09] <robertj> ahh
[03:09] <robertj> .desktop files
[03:09] <mdz> jdub: rad
[03:09] <mdz> jdub: when did that get uploaded?
[03:09] <jdub> late last week
[03:10] <jdub> didn't want to announce just yet :)
[03:10] <robertj> the interface is good but it still doesn't really help bring third party developers into the fold
[03:10] <jdub> robertj: that'll come.
[03:10] <jdub> robertj: it's not an important initial use case.
[03:11] <mdz> gah, must have been during my mail blackout
[03:11] <jdub> mdz: what happened?
[03:11] <robertj> I dunno, to me it seems like thats the major reason to have a way to install software
[03:11] <robertj> Really, these days most people could just do a full install on their 80 gig hd and be done
[03:12] <bob2> you can't do full installs of debian or ubuntu
[03:12] <mdz> jdub: a conspiracy of procmail to eat my mail for ~12 hours
[03:13] <mdz> a conspiracy of procmail and bogofilter, really
[03:13] <jdub> mdz: ber, fascist.
[03:13] <robertj> bob2: drat those packages with exclusions!
[03:13] <mdz> bogofilter shat itself over libdb
[03:13] <jdub> bogofilter changed parameters again, was it that?
[03:13] <jdub> ahr
[03:13] <jdub> very bong
[03:13] <mdz> of course, i have procmail set up to deal with that
[03:13] <mdz> but then, I also have a duplicate filter early on in procmail
[03:13] <mdz> so the mail all got queued
[03:13] <mdz> and then dutifully fed back into procmail for a second try
[03:14] <mdz> where it was dropped as a duplicate :-)
[03:14] <jdub> heh
[03:14] <elmo__> you drop duplicates?
[03:14] <mdz> I appear to have forgotten to test that particular bit of logic
[03:14] <mdz> oh hell yes
[03:14] <mdz> otherwise I would drown
[03:14] <elmo__> well I filter them, I just don't drop them
[03:14] <tseng> hm i put them in their own dir
[03:14] <tseng> but, how do you easily send things back through procmail?
[03:15] <mdz> formail
[03:15] <bob2> or bounce it to yourself
[03:16] <elmo__> meh, wacky - the trackpad reverts back to bong-smoking tap-to-frustrate mode after resume
[03:16] <bob2> hah, yeah, you need to restart pbbutonsd
[03:18] <elmo__> is there a hook to do that?
[03:20] <bob2> Ithink you can hook in with /etc/power/README, but I've not tried it
[03:20] <bob2> ooh, fandoozy
[03:23] <tseng> erm, this seems not right
[03:24] <tseng> when i mark the contents of a maildir as spam to bogofilter, the good word list goes down
[03:24] <tseng> and vice versa
[03:31] <robertj> jdub: but thanks for the tidbit ;)
[09:13] <pitti> Hi!
[09:29] <seb128> morning
[09:34] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[09:34] <seb128> hey pitti !
[10:25] <fabbione> ok guys.. regexp question:
[10:25] <fabbione> H: Handlers=mouse0 event1 ts0
[10:25] <fabbione> this is a line to parse
[10:26] <fabbione> i want to extract only the eventN
[10:26] <fabbione> and N can be from 0 to whatever
[10:26] <fabbione> sed -e 's/.*event\(.*\)/event\1/g
[10:26] <fabbione> with this one i can kill everything before event
[10:26] <fabbione> how do i kill the rest?
[10:26] <fabbione> like " ts0" ?
[10:28] <daniels> sed -e 's/^.*\(event[^ ] *\) .*$/\1/
[10:30] <fabbione> thanks :-)
[10:30] <daniels> no worries
[10:32] <daniels> *blink*
[10:46] <Astharot> buonanotte
[10:55] <daniels> Kamion: dude!
[11:29] <smurfix> Kamion: Consider yourself lucky you didn't have a two-week vacation.  :-/
[11:29] <Kamion> yeah :-/
[11:33] <daniels> Kamion: how was it?
[11:36] <Kamion> daniels: good weekend, yeah, though kinda family overload :)
[11:36] <smurfix> On your side, or the rest of the family's?  ;-)
[11:37] <Kamion> probably my side; first exposure to the bulk of the out-laws
[11:37] <daniels> Kamion: ah
[11:38] <daniels> Kamion: locally, or did you jet off somewhere?
[11:38] <Kamion> few hours' drive
[11:38] <daniels> cool
[12:16] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[12:16] <sivang> Hey pitti
[12:46] <daniels> anyone here familiar with nVidia stuff?  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=754 doesn't show any network controller at all, yet he has a forcedeth card
[01:01] <amu> daniels: looks for me in this way, kernel doesnt support his networkcard, probably with the driverloader he can try to load the win-driver 
[01:03] <daniels> amu: um, I did the research
[01:03] <daniels> if forcedeth in the kernel doesn't support it, then there's a patch we can apply to make it work
[01:04] <daniels> so if forcedeth doesn't work, I'll reassign to linux and ask Herbert to integrate the patch
[01:04] <Kamion> daniels: it's incorrectly showing up as "bridge"
[01:04] <Kamion> it's the 0000:00:05.0 entry
[01:05] <Kamion> a.k.a. 10de00df
[01:09] <daniels> Kamion: mmm, yeah
[01:09] <daniels> Kamion: hence 00df now has bridge and ethernet entries pointing to forcedeth
[01:11] <elmo> Kamion: dude, I know you're a n00b at creating them, but it's 'Section: debian-installer' for udebs, k? ;-P
[01:11] <fabbione> lol
[01:11] <Kamion> elmo: d'oh
[01:11] <Kamion> willfix :)
[01:13] <daniels> Kamion: do you have any pending d1-data changes?
[01:13] <Kamion> elmo: -3 uploaded
[01:13] <Kamion> daniels: nope
[01:13] <daniels> phat
[01:21] <daniels> Kamion: stole some of your d1-data bugs, hope you don't mind
[01:21] <daniels> (about to fix two d1-data bugs in an upload, closed one as a sync fixed it, reassigned another)
[01:25] <Kamion> not in the least :)
[01:41] <haggai> Does the wiki registration reject @debian.org addresses?
[02:19] <Kamion> I thought there were at least a few Canonical people who'd used @debian.org addresses for the wiki ...
[02:33] <Kamion> hmmmm
[02:33] <Kamion> debian-cd knows how to build CDs full of source packages that correspond to a particular binary CD
[02:33] <Kamion> making it build CDs full of the source packages for all the binary CDs we build may be a little bit more challenging
[03:07] <fabbione> daniels: any objection to upload xorg 1ubuntu3?
[03:07] <daniels> fabbione: with what changes?  i have a few local changes I need/would like to finish off
[03:07] <fabbione> daniels: with what it's in baz now
[03:07] <Kamion> Keybuk: s/occured/occurred/ in your merge-o-matic reminder mail please
[03:08] <fabbione> what changes do you have?
[03:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: can I not spell? :p
[03:09] <Kamion> nope O:-)
[03:10] <Keybuk> I nearly always get that one wrong
[03:10] <robtaylor> amu: ping?
[03:16] <Mitario> lo all
[03:18] <haggai> Kamion: hmm, the website said the email was invalid but I got a confirmation mail anyway..
[03:36] <Mitario> mdz, here?
[03:37] <pitti> sjoerd: Hi!
[03:38] <daniels> Mitario: doubt it, it's still very early in his timezone
[03:38] <daniels> Keybuk: Referer
[03:38] <sjoerd> pitti: morning :)
[03:38] <Mitario> daniels, ah, ok, thanks
[03:38] <pitti> sjoerd: I wrote a pmount-hal wrapper
[03:38] <pitti> sjoerd: and added --noatime to pmount
[03:38] <pitti> sjoerd: now I try to modify the storage policy without touching /usr/share/hal
[03:39] <sjoerd> nice
[03:39] <pitti> sjoerd: your patch should it make possible to write them into /etc/hal/fdi, right?
[03:39] <sjoerd> yeah
[03:41] <pitti> sjoerd: if I put a new policy into /etc/, will it be executed after everything in /usr/share/hal?
[03:41] <sjoerd> yes
[03:43] <Keybuk> daniels: occurred doesn't *quite* follow the ordinary English rules of when do double letters
[03:44] <Kamion> daniels: (you know that's a typo in HTTP, right?)
[03:45] <daniels> Kamion: yah :)
[03:45] <Kamion> just checking :)
[03:45] <daniels> which makes me laugh
[03:46] <Keybuk> daniels: refer-rer ... follows the rules, you have to slightly double the pronounciation of the 'r'
[03:47] <Keybuk> occurred always bites me because it's oc-curred not, oc-cur-red
[03:48] <pitti> sjoerd: I created a file /etc/hal/fdi/ubuntu-storage-policy.fdi, but it does not get executed :-(
[03:48] <pitti> sjoerd: I even removed /usr/share/.../storage-policy.fdi
[03:48] <sjoerd> does the trace say it's parsed ?
[03:48] <pitti> I check
[03:49] <pitti> ah, good hint
[03:49] <pitti> XML structure error
[03:51] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, how nice! Now it works
[03:51] <pitti> sjoerd: I forgot to enclose everything in <device>
[03:52] <sjoerd> ah :)
[03:52] <pitti> sjoerd: before I release new versions, I'd like to add device symlink scanning 
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: this could be a good idea
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: essentially it should be enough to compare the realpath()s of the given and the fstab device, right?
[03:56] <sjoerd> given vs. fstab, realpath(given) vs realpath(fstab) is enough i guess
[03:56] <pitti> sjoerd: exactly
[03:56] <pitti> sjoerd: currently, I only compare realpath(given) against fstab
[03:57] <pitti> all this stuff begins to work really smoothly now :-)
[03:57] <sjoerd> nice 
[03:58] <sjoerd> today i'm playing mostly with new stuff (new server, usb/firewire hd enclosure)
[03:58] <pitti> sjoerd: pmount-hal is a simple shell script BTW
[03:58] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, have fun :-)
[03:58] <sjoerd> maybe tonight, but probably tomorrow i'll start adapting the debian package
[03:58] <pitti> sjoerd: I can probably upload pmount_0.4 today
[03:59] <sjoerd> that would be very nice
[03:59] <pitti> sjoerd: and I will prepare an updated g-v-m which uses pmount-hal
[03:59] <pitti> sjoerd: btw, could you already look into adding a hotplug script for lazy unmounting?
[03:59] <sjoerd> i was planning to do that
[04:00] <sjoerd> probably an dev.d script is better (and easier)
[04:00] <pitti> for udev?
[04:00] <sjoerd> yeah
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: I'd like to change the boring /media/sda1 mount points to be /media/<device label> if a label is present
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: do you do this for Debian as well?
[04:12] <sjoerd> l
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: or do you want to use an external database?
[04:12] <sjoerd> pitti: isn't that already the case
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: not in Ubuntu
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: but it's easy to integrate into pmount-hal
[04:12] <pitti> sjoerd: right now, g-v-m did not supply a device label to pmount
[04:13] <sjoerd> the fdi files set that up in the policy database already.. so i guess it's best to use that
[04:15] <pitti> sjoerd: you mean volume.policy.desired_mount_mount?
[04:15] <pitti> sjoerd: s/mount$/point/
[04:15] <pitti> sjoerd: the problem is that some of my (untitled) partitions have desired_mount_point == "usbdisk"
[04:17] <pitti> sjoerd: is it guaranteed that hal will not assign the same desired_mount_point twice?
[04:17] <pitti> sjoerd: because the policy file does nothing to prevent duplicates
[04:18] <sjoerd> pitti: don't think so
[04:18] <sjoerd> how does pmount normally handle it if you give it a label that already exists
[04:18] <pitti> $ pmount /dev/sda5 foo
[04:18] <pitti> Error: directory /media/foo already contains a mounted file system
[04:19] <pitti> the only sane thing to do at this level
[04:19] <pitti> but the default fallback of "usbdisk" is a very bad design IMHO
[04:19] <pitti> it should just be empty if there's no label
[04:19] <pitti> or at least unique
[04:20] <pitti> sjoerd: it would be easy just to delete these two lines from storage-policy.fdi
[04:21] <pitti> sjoerd: but we should probably agree to a solution for both Debian and Ubuntu
[04:32] <sabdfl> Kamion: how do i make rsync use ssh's ProxyCommand from ~/.ssh/config?
[04:33] <mojo_1> anyone here try gnome-screensaver 0.2???
[04:34] <elmo> sabdfl: nothing - it will automatically
[04:34] <elmo> err, as long as you're doing '-e ssh' ...
[04:34] <sabdfl> elmo: hmm... doesn't seem to be
[04:34] <Kamion> yeah, what he said
[04:34] <Kamion> elmo: could I have the build-deps of cdrtools on little? I'd like to experiment with JTE
[04:35] <mojo_1> darn, the **** gnome-screensaver screwed up my box
[04:35] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: make sure that the host name you are using is the same as you have specified on the command line is  the same as the Host line in ssh's config file.
[04:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: does ssh to that host use the ProxyCommand? and are you using precisely the same hostname as lives in ~/.ssh/config?
[04:36] <sabdfl> doh
[04:36] <elmo> Kamion: what's JTE need the build-deps for?
[04:36] <sabdfl> blush
[04:36] <Kamion> elmo: need to build a patched mkisofs
[04:36] <sabdfl> thanks guys, the config used a shortname, and it works with that
[04:37] <Kamion> elmo: if you'd rather I built it elsewhere and copied the binary over, I can do that
[04:37] <elmo> kamion: if you don't mind, that'd be nicer for me
[04:37] <Kamion> ok
[04:38] <Kamion> I've started to build source CDs now after John started bringing up GPL clauses on the mailing lists, and jigdo's now beginning to exceed my patience threshold
[04:38] <sjoerd> pitti: there is also no guarantee you don't have two usb disks with the same label
[04:40] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, right
[04:40] <pitti> sjoerd: so I guess i just ignore the label if the directory is already present
[04:41] <sjoerd> pmount could add -1 to the suggested label if the directory is already there
[04:41] <Kamion> hoary source spills over onto *three* CDs
[04:41] <pitti> or this
[04:42] <sjoerd> i think adding a number makes a more recognizable name
[04:42] <pitti> agreed
[04:43] <azeem> one small question: are the release managers by definition part of the technical board, or does the technical board appoint them, not necessarily being from the board?
[04:43] <Kamion> I'm not sure it's got that formal
[04:44] <azeem> okie
[04:46] <mojo_1> ppl
[04:46] <mojo_1> Kamion
[04:46] <mojo_1> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=4412
[04:46] <mojo_1> check this bug
[04:46] <mojo_1> is it fixed?
[04:46] <Kamion> why me? I don't do anything firefoxish
[04:47] <mojo_1> who maintain firefox?
[04:47] <mojo_1> daniel?
[04:47] <mojo_1> jdub?
[04:47] <azeem> Kamion: you have the same haircolor
[04:47] <mojo_1> or seb128?
[04:47] <Kamion> mojo_1: don't hunt down individual developers, use bugzilla for bugs
[04:47] <azeem> haircolour, sorry
[04:47] <mojo_1> this bug is easily to fixed
[04:47] <Kamion> mojo_1: use bugzilla, *please*
[04:48] <mojo_1> ok
[04:48] <mojo_1> ok
[04:48] <lupus_> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)
[04:48] <lupus_> are there problems with the hoary repository? or the server?
[04:48] <mojo_1> lupus_: mate, its not@
[04:48] <mojo_1> lupus_: it's ur ISP prob
[04:48] <Kamion> mojo_1: (but check if it's already filed first, obviously)
[04:48] <lupus_> k
[04:51] <pitti> sjoerd: I now implemented an iteration over <label>-n, works nicely
[04:56] <sjoerd> pitti: cool
[05:05] <Kamion> pitti: that 19_typos patch to cdrecord patches a file which is actually a symlink in the original tarball; it confuses dpkg-source amusingly under some circumstances
[05:06] <pitti> Kamion: odd; it worked fine for me, but sorry if I messed up anything
[05:06] <Kamion> I think you have to be patching and unpatching a few times
[05:07] <Kamion> no worries, just noticed locally
[05:13] <mdz> morning
[05:13] <seb128> hello mdz 
[05:14] <pitti> Hi mdz!
[05:21] <lupus_> how can I see which packages ubuntu-desktop depends on?
[05:21] <Kamion> apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
[05:24] <lupus_> thx
[05:30] <mdz> mvo_: how I had always envisioned it was to have a list
[05:30] <mdz> mvo_: e.g., search first for bzip2, then gzip
[05:31] <elmo> someone promised me apt already did that
[05:31] <elmo> it's the only reason Packages.bz2 exists.  and if I can ever remember who that someone is, I'm going to beat them
[05:32] <mvo_> heh
[05:33] <mvo_> mdz: I can have a look how to implement your idea. the fact I like about the current patch is that it's so short :)
[05:33] <mdz> elmo: who did?
[05:33] <mdz> ah, a mystery
[05:33] <mdz> elmo: debootstrap does that
[05:34] <mvo_> elmo: the Packages.bz2 is nice to have, it made testing the patch a lot simpler
[05:34] <mdz> mvo_: yes, but how many users could truly enable it?
[05:34] <mdz> many users seem to have unofficial sources, and they probably do not have Packages.bz2
[05:34] <mvo_> agreed. it will only work for "offical" sources for now
[05:37] <robtaylor> hmm, how do i make myself a user page on the wiki?>
[05:39] <robtaylor> mdz: how are the bofs going to be scheduled?
[05:47] <sivang> robtaylor : have you logged in already?
[05:48] <robtaylor> sivang: yep..
[05:51] <sivang> robtaylor : use the buttom page input field,
[05:51] <sivang> robtaylor : "new parent, name, replacement, subtopic: ..."
[05:51] <sivang> robtaylor : put there the new page name etc.
[05:53] <robtaylor> sivang: where/what is 'buttom page input field'?
[05:54] <sivang> anybody know where is the wiki page for gnome-app-install, if any?
[05:54] <sivang> robtaylor : login, go to main wiki page. scroll down till done,
[05:54] <sivang> robtaylor : see there's a text input , with button attached to it's right?
[05:55] <robtaylor> sivang: nope, cant see it!
[05:55] <sivang> robtaylor : strange.
[05:56] <sivang> robtaylor : yes , do that.
[06:09] <seb128> elmo: abiword 2.1.96-1 (experimental) sync please
[06:10] <elmo> seb128: done
[06:10] <seb128> thanks
[06:18] <pitti> mdz: so can I publish libgd2 now?
[06:34] <daniels> Subject: 3D- C library
[06:34] <daniels> To: debian-legal@lists.debian.org
[06:34] <daniels>       I am looking for a C code of a function able of obtaining the best
[06:34] <daniels>       fitting circle of a group of points in 3D.
[06:34] <daniels>       I have arrived to your web, but I cannot obtain the code from the
[06:34] <daniels>       web. I receive an error all the time. Could you send it t me?
[06:34] <daniels> agh, wrong window, sorry.  but enjoy the message anyway.
[06:34] <robtaylor> hmm
[06:34] <robtaylor> heh
[06:39] <daniels> shaya: he's not around for a while
[06:40] <shaya> daniels: do you use madwifi w/ your x40?
[06:41] <daniels> shaya: yah (fwiw, thom has ipw2[12] 00)
[06:41] <daniels> always just worked out of the box for me
[06:41] <shaya> yes, but he hacks NetworkManager
[06:41] <daniels> right
[06:41] <shaya> daniels: even w/ NetworkManager?
[06:41] <shaya> NetworkManager screws it up for me
[06:41] <daniels> mmm, sometimes it works
[06:42] <daniels> well, NM only works with wireless if you don't want to use anything else to manage it
[06:42] <shaya> I think it's becaues madwifi takes forever to return from the "iwlist scanning" operation
[06:42] <daniels> er, can't reproduce here
[06:42] <shaya> iwlist ath0 scanning always works for you?
[06:42] <daniels> running iwlist ath0 scan, I usually get -EAGAIN once
[06:42] <daniels> yeah
[06:42] <daniels> sometimes I get -EAGAIN, but when I run it again, it's fine
[06:42] <shaya> yea, b/c it takes a while to return
[06:42] <shaya> it timesout
[06:43] <shaya> I think that's the issue w/ NetworkManager
[06:43] <shaya> but unsure where it could be timing out
[06:43] <shaya> cursory look over the code didnt see any timeouts
[06:44] <shaya> daniels: btw, how did madwifi work out of the box?  I just tried a warty cd, and it didnt seem to load madwifi drivers
[06:44] <daniels> shaya: ehm, just worked and loaded everything out of the box for me
[06:44] <daniels> which model do you have? i have an nm
[06:44] <shaya> nm?
[06:45] <shaya> what's "nm"?
[06:46] <daniels> shaya: the sub-model
[06:46] <daniels> so, it's like 234987234NM
[06:46] <shaya> 0000:02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01)
[06:46] <daniels> the NM being the only one with bluetooth and .11abg until the week after I bought it
[06:46] <daniels> 0000:02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01)
[06:46] <shaya> yes, I have abg  +bluetooth
[06:46] <shaya> looks the same
[06:46] <shaya> warty autodetected it on install?
[06:47] <daniels> yah
[06:47] <Mithrandir> jdub: prod?
[06:47] <shaya> I know debian's hotplug detects it fine if I install the drivers myself, but warty's debian-installer didnt load the modules
[06:47] <daniels> bong
[06:47] <shaya> daniels: was it in install detected, or after install (i.e. restricted modules dpkg -i'd)
[06:47] <daniels> iirc it worked fine
[06:48] <shaya> hmph
[06:48] <daniels> can't remember off the top of my head, sorry, but I'm reasonably sure it worked during the install
[06:48] <shaya> didnt work for me on my dry run a few hours ago
[06:48] <daniels> bong
[06:49] <shaya> sigh
[06:49] <shaya> sucks for me
[06:49] <shaya> now on to Q2.  is the warty live cd good for installing?
[06:49] <shaya> or does one need the install cd for that?
[06:50] <daniels> can't install from the live cd at all iirc
[06:50] <shaya> ok
[06:51] <amu> daniels: it's possible, but noone supports it, there's still a very bloody morphix installer 
[06:51] <daniels> ah
[06:52] <amu> http://source.rfc822.org/pub/local/gnoppix/gnoppix/installer/
[06:53] <amu> in theorie you install the deb and run the installer
[06:54] <sivang> is gnome-app-install available for warty also?
[06:54] <amu> sivang: it is
[06:54] <sivang> amu : by the same sources?
[06:54] <sivang> :)
[06:54] <sivang> amu : (of warty)
[06:54] <amu> correct
[06:55] <sivang> amu : k, thanks. 
[07:00] <robtaylor> shaya: as amu says, you can, but for god's sake, don't ;)
[07:03] <robtaylor> s/god/$DEITY
[07:03] <amu> sivang: the saver way, create your partion cp * to it modify fstab and lilo | grub 
[07:03] <robtaylor> of course
[07:04] <amu> s/it/it,/
[07:26] <daniels>  Jeff pointed out that this was still problematic because we can't expect
[07:26] <daniels> artists to upload to half a dozen sites. Maybe some kind of syndication
[07:26] <daniels> system?
[07:26] <daniels> PLANET UBUNTU ART
[07:27] <Mithrandir> planet.art.ubuntu.longhostname.com
[07:31] <daniels> hm
[07:31] <daniels> quickest way to tell you how many a times a line occurs?
[07:31] <daniels> e.g. foo, foo, foo, bar, bar, and baz, to print 3 foo, 2 bar, and 1 baz
[07:32] <daniels> fwiw, in my tests, we can basically start gdm as soon as we can
[07:33] <Kamion> daniels: sort | uniq -d
[07:33] <Kamion> sorry, -c
[07:36] <daniels> Kamion: thanks
[09:03] <mdz> pitti: I have no problems with libgd2, no
[09:04] <mdz> robtaylor: how?
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: thx
[09:10] <cenerentola> mako?
[09:13] <mako> cenerentola: whats up
[09:47] <hornbeck> sabdfl, mdz: either of you around?
[09:50] <pitti> doko: what do you want to sync from Debian that affects language packs?
[09:52] <mdz> hornbeck: yes
[09:54] <hornbeck> mdz: who would I talk to about the bounties?
[09:54] <mdz> hornbeck: me
[09:54] <hornbeck> good
[09:54] <hornbeck> the Ubuntu in a NutShell, what are you guys looking for
[09:55] <mdz> you'll want to talk to jdub for the scope on that one
[09:55] <hornbeck> ok
[09:55] <lupus_> is there a bug in the latest apt-get?
[09:55] <mdz> I believe he's already listed on the HoaryGoals page as the contact person
[09:55] <hornbeck> I was only told about the bounty, did not see it
[09:55] <mdz> lupus_: every non-trivial piece of software has bugs, so I think I can safely say "yes"
[09:55] <hornbeck> thanks for the info though
[09:56] <lupus_> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/source/Release  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)
[09:56] <lupus_> since today I get this error
[09:56] <lupus_> only with the ubuntu repository
[09:59] <mdz> works fine for me
[10:00] <mdz> the usual cause for such problems is that your ISP has a broken transparent proxy
[10:02] <lupus_> joy
[10:02] <lupus_> is there a way to test if this is the case
[10:03] <elmo> use ftp
[10:04] <rcaskey_> Is there a listing of the bounty amounts?
[10:04] <lupus_> works now
[10:04] <lupus_> grumbl
[10:04] <lupus_> stupid ISP 
[10:07] <mdz> elmo: apt 0.5.30 with Packages.bz2 support uploaded for your enjoyment
[10:08] <elmo> mdz: the list stuff, or the boolean?
[10:09] <doko> pitti: openoffice.org
[10:09] <mdz> elmo: tries .bz2, falls back to .gz
[10:09] <elmo> eek
[10:09] <elmo> that's gonna suck on lowmem
[10:09] <doko> elmo: please sync python2.3 from unstable
[10:09] <elmo> like "break install" suck
[10:09] <pitti> doko: I did not really start with the language packs because it still needs discussion, which I wanted to do in the TB meeting
[10:09] <mdz> elmo: we'll add an override if we need to
[10:09] <elmo> *shrug* K
[10:10] <pitti> doko: but if you could wait until tomorrow, then maybe one upload would be enough
[10:10] <pitti> doko: which syncs and contains the langpack patch
[10:10] <pitti> doko: BTW, will you sync 1.1.3?
[10:10] <mdz> elmo: next exciting agenda item is to work out the specifics of key management for Release.gpg
[10:10] <doko> pitti: and maybe it's worth getting in contact with haggai for 1.1.3 ...
[10:10] <pitti> doko: pleeeeeeease? :-)
[10:11] <elmo> mdz: actually can you add an override anyway?  it's gonna suck on GB LANs too 1/2;)
[10:11] <pitti> doko: _rene_ and haggai already discussed a bit about this
[10:11] <pitti> doko: in fact the guys seem to be interested to adopt the patch for Debian, too
[10:11] <mdz> elmo: give it a try first, I'm interested in how it feels
[10:11] <mdz> for me, there is no noticeable difference
[10:12] <mdz> the decompression probably takes a bit longer, but it does that in parallel with downloading the next thing
[10:12] <doko> pitti: I reduced the OOo ubuntu diff from 250k to 10k, so it should be possible for you to start with the 1.1.3 package from experimental
[10:13] <mdz> elmo: hmm, that 0.5.30 upload is going to be rejected due to the usual s/unstable/hoary/ fuckup
[10:14] <elmo> mdz: dude, you're unusually inept when it comes to target suites ;-)
[10:15] <pitti> doko: so you will sync 1.1.3?
[10:15] <mdz> elmo: dude, it's debian-changelog-mode's fault
[10:15] <mdz> it should default to the one used in the previous upload, but it always seems to default to unstable
[10:15] <pitti> doko: I prepare a patch after TB, then I send it to you for inclusion
[10:15] <pitti> doko: it's only patching debian/control anyway
[10:15] <elmo> mdz: the reason it doesn't is people kept making broken uploads to stable
[10:16] <elmo> or frozen or whatever.. very hysterical
[10:21] <mdz> elmo: hmm, it would probably be pretty easy to fix dput to check and reject stuff like that
[10:26] <doko> do we have some kind of interface like packages.debian.org to search for files in a package?
[10:27] <doko> fabbione, daniels: X11/extensions/XKBstr.h ?
[10:33] <daniels> doko: libxkbfile-dev
[10:33] <doko> daniels: yes, found it. OOo needs it to build ... maybe some more packages
[10:34] <daniels> yah
[10:34] <daniels> xlibs-static-dev is no more, do not b-d on it
[10:34] <daniels> ditto xlibs-static-pic
[10:35] <doko> X11/extensions/Xinerama.h the next ... is there a tool to grep the sources for header files and print out the package names they can be found in?
[10:36] <daniels> libxinerama-dev
[10:36] <daniels> and not really, but I can keep telling you
[10:39] <lamont_r> moo
[10:41] <doko> daniels: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXinerama_pic
[10:47] <daniels> doko: s/_pic//
[10:47] <doko> yes, any more libraries like this one?
[10:47] <daniels> others to look out for include libXss-dev, libXxf86{dga,misc,rush,vm}, libXau, libXdmcp, er
[10:47] <daniels> a couple
[10:48] <lamont_r> daniels: are all the .a's built -fPIC then, or are there only shared libs?
[10:48] <daniels> lamont_r: there are both static and shared libs
[10:48] <doko> xinerama is a shared lib
[10:49] <daniels> and there's also a static Xinerama now
[10:49] <doko> daniels: maybe add a HOWTO-UPGRADE ...
[10:49] <daniels> doko: better to fix it now though, since there will be missing b-ds
[10:49] <daniels> doko: so I'd much rather a manual check on each package tbh
[10:50] <doko> I started with the wrong package :-(
[10:51] <lamont_r> ah, ok
[10:51] <mdz> doko: regarding packages.d.o, we have Contents files
[10:52] <amu> yes ;) 
[10:56] <lamont_r> hrmpf brb
[11:01] <lamont_r> much better
[11:36] <mdz> elmo: can you promote anacron into main so I can upload ubuntu-meta?
[11:37] <elmo> done
[11:37] <elmo> I suppose I should do some seed syncage, but the diff got scary again
[11:40] <mdz> oh?
[11:40] <elmo> lots of new stuff - I'm digging into it and sending mail now
[11:40] <mdz> feel free to send me a raw copy of the output; I'll enlighten if I can
[11:44] <pasc_> btw, if you guys want to make any changes to anacron, its tla archive lives at http://www.redellipse.net/code/debian
[11:45] <mdz> pasc_: 403
[11:45] <pasc_> (*hint* *hint* ACPI *hint* *hint*)
[11:45] <pasc_> mdz: tla can read it fine
[11:45] <pasc_> the .listing is in there
[11:46] <mdz> thanks
[11:46] <pasc_> np
[11:48] <thom> bah, gaim Rendezvous is totally foobar
[11:48] <elmo> Kamion: can you add grepmap-udeb to a seed if it's appropriate?
[11:49] <elmo> mdz: oh, ok, assumed you'd think I was being slack.. *shrug* will do so in future :)
[11:49] <elmo> mdz: should linux-tree be in a seed or universe?
[11:49] <mdz> elmo: I wouldn't mind if that stuff got automagically spit out to a web page, tbh
[11:49] <mdz> elmo: linux-tree should be in supported, I'll add it
[11:50] <Mithrandir> hmm, what is kernel-image-* doing in the repo?  Or is it just universe?
[11:50] <mdz> elmo: committed that change
[11:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's only in warty/universe
[11:51] <mdz> hmm, actually it seems to still be there in hoary/universe
[11:51] <Mithrandir> yeah, I got it installed accidentially.
[11:51] <mdz> elmo: I thought we agreed they should be removed, or was that only excluding them from new imports?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> broke lots of stuff.
[11:51] <elmo> *Boggle*
[11:52] <elmo> what kind of crack is germinate on?
[11:52] <elmo> ash                              | dash                         | languagechooser (Build-Depend)    
[11:52] <elmo> Build-Depends-Indep: dash | ash
[11:52] <elmo> and dash is in main
[11:53] <daniels> why b-d-i on dash|ash?
[11:53] <elmo> daniels: woody compat
[11:53] <daniels> surely you're screwed without a posix-compliant sh anyway ;)
[11:53] <mdz> ./debian/changelog:  * Use dash or ash to check the scripts for parse errors at build time.
[11:53] <Kamion> mdz: ok for me to add grepmap-udeb to installer?
[11:53] <daniels> elmo: mmm, but what dash accep ... ah, ok
[11:53] <mdz> Kamion: certainly
[11:54] <elmo> mdz: I blacklisted the list you gave me, but it was from exhaustive
[11:54] <Kamion> done
[11:54] <elmo> mdz: do you want me to blacklist+remove kernel-image-* ?
[11:54] <mdz> elmo: definitely kernel-*-2.2* and kernel-*-2.4*
[11:55] <mdz> I'm not entirely sure about having the most recent Debian kernel there
[11:55] <mdz> it seems useful
[11:55] <mdz> but I'm not sure whether it outweighs the confusion
[11:55] <elmo> sigh, germinate's lost it again, a bunch of the "binaries should be in main" are from or'ed deps like the above
[11:57] <mdz> Kamion: mvo and elmo raised the question of Packages.bz2 vs. lowmem installs.  how much of a concern is that?
[11:58] <Mithrandir> we don't really support lowmem installs, do we?
[11:59] <Kamion> we do, assuming I remember to test it
[11:59] <Kamion> at least we shouldn't have particularly broken anything from Debian
[11:59] <Mithrandir> is it possible (in some sane way) to do automatic test installations using qemu or something?
[11:59] <Kamion> mdz: debootstrap already does bz2 handling, so I'd've thought lowmem installs would already be running into that
[12:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: much better to have a machine with serial console access and remote reboot; see joeyh's fantastic d-i autotest setup
[12:00] <mdz> Kamion: right, I wasn't sure if you overrode it somehow
[12:00] <Mithrandir> yeah, I've read that.