[12:01] <littlegreenman> gonna try
[12:02] <littlegreenman> yep
[12:02] <littlegreenman> last edited 7 hours ago by Alexey Molchanov
[12:02] <skyrider> littlegreenman: can you load it?
[12:02] <littlegreenman> yes,
[12:02] <skyrider> shit
[12:02] <skyrider> I try to sendnew version
[12:02] <skyrider> but I can't
[12:02] <littlegreenman> it's fine in my browaer
[12:02] <littlegreenman> ??? ????????? ???????? ???????
[12:02] <skyrider> littlegreenman: thanks
[12:02] <skyrider> ?
[12:02] <littlegreenman> :D
[12:03] <sivang> hey littlegreenman
[12:03] <littlegreenman> hello sivang
[12:03] <skyrider> sivang: hi
[12:03] <littlegreenman> skyrider, are you translating pages to russian ,or creating your own?
[12:03] <sivang> how are you? where from? (Hi Skyrider!) welcome to doc team channel 
[12:03] <sivang> :)
[12:03] <skyrider> littlegreenman: it's my own
[12:03] <littlegreenman> i'm from portugal, been translating some wiki pages to portuguese
[12:04] <skyrider> I'm also working on translations of other pages now
[12:04] <littlegreenman> cool skyrider i just don't have the expertise... i am a translator, so help that way :D
[12:05] <littlegreenman> what's up sivang
[12:05] <sivang> you're also a translator? spanish community? :)
[12:05] <skyrider> Actually I don't have good writing skills too but somebody has to do it. So I try and hope community will help me fix my mistakes :)
[12:06] <littlegreenman> :) portuguese though... no pt channel for ubuntu
[12:06] <littlegreenman> yeah skyrider i know how you feel...
[12:06] <sivang> ah portugal, brazil, spain, italy..places to see..:)
[12:06] <sivang> then make up one!
[12:06] <littlegreenman> i think if someone kickstarts it, then other feel the need to help as well
[12:06] <sivang> you shall be responsible for the channel
[12:06] <sivang> :)
[12:06] <littlegreenman> sivang, i will feel lonely there :)
[12:06] <littlegreenman> how does one reg the channel?
[12:07] <sivang> ah well, I can join in there also :) but I don't know portuguesse, although love it's sound.
[12:07] <littlegreenman> sivang, :D where u from?
[12:07] <littlegreenman> to much trouble to whois you and nicer this way eheheh
[12:08] <sivang> Israel 
[12:08] <skyrider> littlegreenman: I can give you some cigs ;)
[12:08] <littlegreenman> thank skyrider just found them
[12:08] <littlegreenman> i feel the ubuntu wiki is not very geared towards newbies......
[12:08] <littlegreenman> I am a newbie myself in terms of linux, trying to translate that to my language
[12:09] <sivang> this is on the works, if you can suggest fixes etc, or even bug us on the mailing list that would be great.
[12:09] <littlegreenman> sivang, would love to go to israel. have a good friend from there
[12:09] <sivang> you do?
[12:09] <sivang> I love to learn portougeese
[12:09] <sivang> (damn so many spelling mistakes)
[12:09] <littlegreenman> ol
[12:09] <littlegreenman> :D means hello
[12:09] <sivang> how do you say CHampaigne?
[12:09] <sivang> like the drink
[12:09] <sivang> :)
[12:10] <littlegreenman> sivang, the same way man... champagne... 
[12:10] <skyrider> What do you think about vodka? ;)
[12:10] <sivang> is it also the language spoken in brazil?
[12:10] <sivang> ah smirnov
[12:10] <sivang> :))
[12:10] <littlegreenman> yeah sivang
[12:10] <skyrider> :)
[12:10] <littlegreenman> there is a debate about that actually
[12:10] <littlegreenman> cause is same lang
[12:10] <littlegreenman> but they use it slightly differently
[12:11] <sivang> I like the language alot, watched "Presencia De Anita" , "Dona Flour" etc..
[12:11] <sivang> actors like mel lisboa
[12:11] <sivang> :)
[12:11] <littlegreenman> european portuguese and brazilian portuguese are more differente than british english and american english
[12:11] <littlegreenman> sivang, :D wow!
[12:11] <sivang> brazilian has this whistelling sound!
[12:11] <littlegreenman> it's more.... rythmic
[12:11] <littlegreenman> yeah
[12:11] <sivang> and this legatto sounding
[12:11] <sivang> yes
[12:11] <littlegreenman> have you seen... the city of god?
[12:11] <sivang> it's awesome
[12:11] <littlegreenman> brazilian movie
[12:11] <sivang> city of god?
[12:12] <littlegreenman> yeah
[12:12] <sivang> no, I will look for it on my DVD lib
[12:12] <littlegreenman> very good....
[12:12] <littlegreenman> goona search imdb
[12:12] <littlegreenman> 1 sec
[12:13] <littlegreenman> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317248/
[12:13] <littlegreenman> before we had mtv portugal, we would have the israeli one... many adds from your side of the world :D
[12:17] <skyrider> I've just restarted firefox and now I can load my page. Horray!!! *dancing*
[12:18] <littlegreenman> great skyrider
[12:18] <littlegreenman> it was working fine on mine....
[12:18] <littlegreenman> i am loving this whole ubuntu experience
[12:18] <littlegreenman> i have tried different linux distros... usually my brother would convince me....
[12:19] <littlegreenman> but finally something that a newbie like me can use....
[12:19] <littlegreenman> and with the whole power of linux
[12:19] <skyrider> cool
[12:20] <skyrider> I can't say I'm newbie but I like it very much
[12:20] <skyrider> and constantly convincing my friends to it :)
[12:20] <skyrider> (I mean Ubuntu)
[12:20] <littlegreenman> ;) yeah i know... they are getting tired of me....
[12:21] <skyrider> sivang: ping
[12:21] <littlegreenman> windows users need a system to work with no much hasle
[12:21] <littlegreenman> as windows friendly as possible... i think ubuntu has that... i haven't been to xp for a few days now...
[12:21] <littlegreenman> i can do my work here...
[12:22] <littlegreenman> as well, if not better than with xp
[12:22] <skyrider> littlegreenman: great
[12:23] <skyrider> Unfortunaly I can't say the same about me
[12:23] <skyrider> :(
[12:23] <littlegreenman> how come?
[12:23] <sivang> yes
[12:23] <sivang> here
[12:23] <sivang> sorry, was busy
[12:24] <skyrider> I have to use some proprietary progs to do laboratory works for the university
[12:24] <skyrider> sivang: what about irc logs?
[12:24] <littlegreenman> :( that sucks skyrider
[12:24] <skyrider> littlegreenman: I know
[12:24] <sivang> oh, mako is working on this, let's see if I can bug him now (he's on NYC time)
[12:25] <littlegreenman> skyrider, i only need office and a desktop environment for internet use... so i have all i need....
[12:25] <skyrider> sivang: yes
[12:25] <littlegreenman> and the best thing is although it is kind of a slow machine it runs smoothly, something i coulnd't with xp
[12:25] <littlegreenman> was already planing an upgrade
[12:26] <skyrider> littlegreenman: it's good. I need Visual C++, Altera MAX+ 2, Xilinx ...
[12:26] <skyrider> ... Enterprise Architect
[12:26] <skyrider> etc.
[12:26] <littlegreenman> ect... :D
[12:27] <skyrider> littlegreenman: what machine do you have?
[12:27] <littlegreenman> that was what i was gonna say
[12:27] <littlegreenman> i am running:
[12:27] <littlegreenman> CPU: AMD-K7(tm) Processor, 499.346MHz
[12:27] <littlegreenman> RAM 192 MB
[12:27] <littlegreenman> my friend just bought a few weeks ago a 3.2 Ghz Intel with 640 MB ram
[12:28] <littlegreenman> not sure about ram
[12:28] <littlegreenman> my xp config was already ....................................................
[12:28] <skyrider> He-he. Mine is better: Duron 750, 256Mb RAM
[12:28] <littlegreenman> :)
[12:28] <sivang> I have 2.6Gigs HT intel machine..
[12:28] <skyrider> littlegreenman: is your friend crazy?
[12:28] <sivang> ubuntu is great here
[12:28] <littlegreenman> skyrider, it was a promotion... cheap cheap
[12:28] <littlegreenman> EUR 999
[12:28] <littlegreenman> with a 19 in TFT monitor
[12:29] <littlegreenman> or maybe 17
[12:29] <sivang> waaawo!
[12:29] <littlegreenman> not sure :D
[12:29] <sivang> in protugal?
[12:29] <skyrider> littlegreenman: not bad ;)
[12:29] <littlegreenman> yep sivang
[12:29] <sivang> pretty good
[12:29] <littlegreenman> i know... but that is basically what you need to have a smooth xp experience.. which i don't have
[12:29] <skyrider> I think I can buy such machine here (in Ukraine) even cheaper :-P
[12:29] <littlegreenman> and i have a smooth ubuntu experience believe me....
[12:29] <littlegreenman> skyrider, ;)
[12:29] <sivang> linux is known to run better on less hardware then xp
[12:30] <littlegreenman> i know sivang
[12:30] <littlegreenman> and this one, it boots, and it just goes all so well
[12:30] <sivang> what adds did you get btw ? :)
[12:30] <littlegreenman> it got all my HW... everything
[12:30] <sivang> what are you studying littlegreenman?
[12:30] <littlegreenman> whay past that sivang :D i work....
[12:31] <littlegreenman> studied public relations
[12:31] <littlegreenman> and now i am in the tourism business
[12:31] <littlegreenman> and do translation
[12:31] <littlegreenman> and do translations
[12:31] <sivang> you said something about HW that's why I asked.
[12:31] <littlegreenman> hardware
[12:31] <littlegreenman> :D sorry
[12:31] <sivang> ah
[12:31] <sivang> LOL
[12:31] <littlegreenman> :)
[12:32] <skyrider> littlegreenman: is a PR man. he-he :)
[12:32] <sivang> maybe you can be on the PR team or something :)
[12:32] <littlegreenman> of ubuntu :D yeah... i have to tell you
[12:32] <sivang> yes
[12:32] <littlegreenman> this is one sweet experience from a windows user perspective
[12:32] <littlegreenman> everyone is saying, 
[12:32] <littlegreenman> oh it needs this
[12:32] <littlegreenman> or still needs that
[12:33] <littlegreenman> but for me... it's fine
[12:33] <littlegreenman> the only problem is the world at large
[12:33] <littlegreenman> for instance it's so easy to install whatever program you need
[12:33] <littlegreenman> do a search on the net, and then execute it, i mean on windows
[12:33] <sivang> yes
[12:33] <sivang> it's way kool
[12:33] <littlegreenman> on linux you use synaptic which is easy as hell
[12:33] <littlegreenman> but there isn't the whole
[12:33] <littlegreenman> cnet.com
[12:34] <littlegreenman> download.com
[12:34] <littlegreenman> etc etc etc etc
[12:34] <sivang> littlegreenman : I see your english is pretty fine, why don't you start a doc on the wiki about that? something of official nature? to act as a base for some PR and advocacy?
[12:34] <littlegreenman> with loads and loads of progs 
[12:34] <sivang> you could make it in other latin langs afterwards :)
[12:34] <littlegreenman> that's a good idea... 
[12:35] <littlegreenman> i went to distrowatch yesterday
[12:35] <littlegreenman> and ubuntu is right on top there with other more popular distros
[12:35] <sivang> ah nice, didn
[12:35] <littlegreenman> but you google it and there isn't much.... 
[12:35] <sivang> 'check them a while
[12:35] <littlegreenman> it does need some publicity
[12:36] <littlegreenman> and maybe it's just me, new to this whole thing, but there seems to be a buzz about the whole thing
[12:37] <sivang> no there is. It's one of the most spoken currently ,I think.
[12:37] <littlegreenman> think so as well
[12:38] <littlegreenman> there isn't much ubuntu specific help for windows switchovers though i feel
[12:40] <sivang> littlegreenman : actually, I have started http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StartingTheJourney
[12:41] <littlegreenman> is that yours? i did see it today.. didn't have time to read....
[12:41] <littlegreenman> that's very important... i don't know... but what 70% of computer users use windows based systems?
[12:41] <littlegreenman> maybe more?
[12:42] <littlegreenman> we need to convince these people that the windows system is substandard....
[12:42] <littlegreenman> that you don't need to keep on buying new hardware... upgrading... upgrading....
[12:43] <littlegreenman> there is out there software that does the same and more (if you want to look) for less
[12:43] <littlegreenman> i actually wanted to learn more... about linux... any good resources?
[12:45] <sivang> actually, if you are interested in debina,
[12:45] <sivang> debian, 
[12:45] <sivang> there a nice one somehwhere.. (looking)
[12:46] <sivang> http://www.wylug.org.uk/talks/1998/02/debian.html
[12:46] <littlegreenman> gonna have a look sivang later thanks....
[12:47] <sivang> http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/
[12:47] <sivang> this is something AWESEOM for newbies
[12:47] <sivang> I really like it,
[12:47] <sivang> funny too
[12:49] <littlegreenman> :D
[12:50] <littlegreenman> this what i needed... gonna have a look, maybe incorporate some into the portuguese documentation wiki of ubuntu
[12:50] <littlegreenman> thanks sivang
[12:51] <sivang> actually this document I am working is based on some amazing one by a nice peorson from ibm.
[12:51] <sivang> (the starting the joureny)
[12:51] <sivang> I am working on making it 'ubuntuized'
[12:51] <sivang> :)
[12:52] <sivang> that would be great
[12:52] <sivang> if you could have it in english also,
[12:52] <littlegreenman> :)
[12:52] <sivang> that would be also good,
[12:52] <sivang> would provide a good ground for other translators maybe
[12:53] <littlegreenman> english is the "world" language.... it's way important......
[12:53] <littlegreenman> and having one good document in english, means everyone could easly translate it into their languages.....
[12:54] <sivang> yes, I just said that :)
[12:54] <sivang> littlegreenman, what is your name btw?
[12:54] <sivang> (if you don't mind me asking)
[12:55] <littlegreenman> diogo
[12:55] <littlegreenman> :D
[12:55] <littlegreenman> Diogo Heleno
[12:55] <littlegreenman> i was just rephrasing what you said into my own words :D
[12:55] <sivang> ah cool
[12:55] <sivang> ;-)
[12:55] <littlegreenman> after passing the littlegreenman siv :D
[12:56] <littlegreenman> do u subscribe to the ubuntu doc mailing list?
[12:56] <sivang> yes, I do. were you posting there?
[12:56] <littlegreenman> no no, subscribed today :D
[12:57] <littlegreenman> cool.... i need to go... work very early tomorrow... but we need to get in touch... this whole newbie ubuntu thing is something that needs to be done... and maybe i can help u
[12:58] <sivang> no prob, yo can always mail the list, everybody here would be glad to help on that.
[12:58] <sivang> :)
[12:58] <sivang> mail the doc list, present yourself etc :)
[12:59] <littlegreenman> yeah, might do that....
[12:59] <sivang> laterz !
[12:59] <littlegreenman> ok, goodnight all gotta go
[12:59] <sivang> night
[01:04] <hornbeck> I'm back
[01:04] <sivang> yo dude
[01:04] <hornbeck> yo
[01:04] <sivang> congretz on the server
[01:04] <hornbeck> thanks
[01:04] <sivang> finally :)
[01:04] <hornbeck> it seems to be working good
[01:04] <sivang> how my package been treating you?
[01:04] <hornbeck> the gnome-docs?
[01:04] <sivang> yeppers
[01:05] <hornbeck> I have not started yet
[01:05] <sivang> no
[01:05] <hornbeck> I was about to start working on them
[01:05] <sivang> I meant, the yelp
[01:05] <sivang> :)
[01:05] <hornbeck> ohhh
[01:05] <hornbeck> that is great
[01:05] <hornbeck> :-)
[01:05] <sivang> could you believe this is one missing XSLT directive?
[01:05] <hornbeck> huh
[01:05] <sivang> what caused the bug..
[01:05] <hornbeck> are you sending a fix upstream 
[01:05] <hornbeck> or is it just Ubuntu?
[01:06] <sivang> Oh, the fix came from upstream, with whom I worked this out :)
[01:06] <hornbeck> nice
[01:06] <hornbeck> doing a great job you are
[01:06] <sivang> I hope :-)
[01:06] <sivang> I am not getting too much wiki work done though :(
[01:07] <hornbeck> I have not done wiki work in days really
[01:07] <hornbeck> I have just been doing outlines and stuff for this book
[01:07] <hornbeck> I don't think it will be what I wanted
[01:07] <hornbeck> but I think it will be a great thing for Ubuntu
[01:07] <sivang> oh!
[01:07] <sivang> I recalled now,
[01:07] <sivang> someone came here today,
[01:07] <sivang> was interested in the book
[01:08] <hornbeck> really
[01:08] <sivang> sirieously
[01:08] <sivang> yes,
[01:08] <hornbeck> I need to check the log
[01:08] <sivang> he wants to help out on this.
[01:08] <hornbeck> ncie
[01:08] <hornbeck> nice
[01:08] <hornbeck> I need some help
[01:08] <hornbeck> did you guys point him to the svn server?
[01:08] <sivang> robertj_afk now
[01:09] <sivang> ah, I didn't remember the url and loging stuff, so not :)
[01:09] <sivang> :(
[01:09] <sivang> you might want to msg him or something
[01:10] <hornbeck> cool I just read what he said
[01:10] <sivang> see what I meant?
[01:10] <sivang> :)
[01:10] <hornbeck> yeah
[01:10] <hornbeck> I really need seme help in parts
[01:10] <sivang> I figured
[01:11] <hornbeck> mainly the applications sections
[01:11] <hornbeck> I just don't have time to work through them
[01:11] <sivang> anyway, be back in 30
[01:11] <hornbeck> ok
[01:30] <hornbeck> hello
[01:48] <enrico> Hello
[01:50] <sivang> hey enrico
[01:50] <hornbeck> I have my gpg key
[01:50] <sivang> seems like more and more people are getting interested in helping
[01:50] <enrico> hornbeck: did you upload it to a keyserver?
[01:51] <hornbeck> no
[01:51] <enrico> gpg --send-key <your key id>
[01:51] <enrico> sivang: that's great news!
[01:52] <sivang> yes, I had someone from portugal here
[01:52] <hornbeck> enrico: its sent
[01:52] <enrico> We may be making the breakthrough discovery that being friendly actually helps :)
[01:52] <enrico> hornbeck: what is your key ID?
[01:52] <hornbeck> being friendly helps?
[01:53] <sivang> he would like to help on the newbie doc corner, pointed him at 
[01:53] <hornbeck> my email address
[01:53] <hornbeck> hornbeck at freeshell dot org
[01:53] <hornbeck> how do I get yours?
[01:54] <enrico> hornbeck: my key: gpg --recv-key 797ebfab
[01:55] <sivang> enrico : yes, being friendly works.
[01:55] <sivang> :)
[01:55] <enrico> sivang: once we prove that, we write a paper and publish it on slashdot
[01:55] <enrico> "Revolution!  Being friendly helps!"
[01:55] <sivang> he would like to work on something like http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/
[01:55] <sivang> for ubuntu
[01:55] <sivang> hahah
[01:56] <sivang> could we have a check run to see how much sbscribers we have on ubuntu-doc ?
[01:56] <hornbeck> I can check 
[01:56] <sivang> please do
[01:56] <sivang> :)
[01:58] <enrico> hornbeck: do you confirm me your key ID is D38F22AB ?
[01:58] <hornbeck> we have 61 people subscribed to ubuntu-doc
[01:59] <hornbeck> how do I check that enrico?
[01:59] <hornbeck> yes that is it
[01:59] <enrico> hornbeck: gpg --fingerprint hornbeck ad freeshell dot org
[01:59] <enrico> it should give you some key info and the fingerprint
[01:59] <enrico> the key info start with something like:
[01:59] <hornbeck> I just did gpg --list-keys
[02:00] <hornbeck> that is the number
[02:00] <enrico> pub  1024D/797EBFAB
[02:00] <enrico> The thing right of the slash it's 8 hexadecimal digits and it's the key ID
[02:00] <enrico> It's the same as the last 8 digits of the fingerprint
[02:00] <hornbeck> cool
[02:01] <hornbeck> man I love learning new things :-)
[02:01] <enrico> hornbeck: I'm sending you the password then
[02:01] <hornbeck> ok
[02:02] <hornbeck> so people can just use my key id to pull my gpg stuff?
[02:03] <enrico> No
[02:03] <enrico> Trust is based on key signatures
[02:03] <enrico> You meet people in person, check official documents with photo IDs, get the key fingerprint from the real person
[02:04] <hornbeck> ok
[02:04] <enrico> Then, you know that is the fingerprint of the key corresponding to that person; you download the key from a keyserver, check the fingerprint and you know it's the right key
[02:04] <enrico> At that point you may want to certify that you checked, so you sign his/her public key and upload it
[02:04] <hornbeck> but do I need to give them that number or my email address like I gave you?
[02:05] <hornbeck> boy, I have alot of reading to do
[02:05] <hornbeck> gpg, subversion, docbook, apache
[02:05] <hornbeck> I will never get docs written :-)
[02:06] <enrico> hornbeck: No, I was just doing a very stupid check, just in case I downloaded a wrong key.  However, I have no way to trust your key now
[02:06] <enrico> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~jc/wotsap  is a web of trust pathfinder
[02:07] <hornbeck> cool
[02:07] <enrico> Try getting the path between 135ea668 (Stallman) and 797ebfab (me)
[02:08] <enrico> You can see that there are various people of which I checked the identity, which in turn checked RMS' identity, so I have a trust path to Stallman
[02:09] <hornbeck> nice
[02:09] <enrico> Of course, I may not trust those intermediary people and I may choose not to trust stallman's key anyway
[02:09] <hornbeck> haha
[02:09] <enrico> But that's how trust work in the world of web of trust
[02:10] <enrico> So, the thing is at the ubuntu conf, or whenever you meet people with GPG keys, cross-signing keys
[02:10] <hornbeck> how do you sign someone elses key?
[02:10] <enrico> gpg --edit-key <key id>
[02:10] <enrico> then you issue the 'sign' command
[02:10] <enrico> You'll be shown the fingerprint which you have to check with one obtained from a trusted source
[02:10] <hornbeck> does it upload it automaticly?
[02:11] <enrico> No, it just keeps the signature in your keyring
[02:11] <enrico> please don't sign my key!
[02:12] <hornbeck> ok
[02:12] <hornbeck> why don't sign your key?
[02:12] <sivang> enrico : you met debian's lead? :)
[02:12] <enrico> Because you haven't met me in person and I could be a man in black trying to earn a GPG certification of your trust :)
[02:12] <enrico> sivang: sure!
[02:13] <hornbeck> enrico: I will remember that
[02:14] <enrico> sivang: picture at the restaurant with tbm: http://eddie.casa/extern/enrico/galleries/2004-02-23-Martin/martin/thumb/dscf0007-1-0.html
[02:16] <hornbeck> I guess I really will have to go to some conf's now
[02:16] <enrico> hornbeck: once you have a GPG key, you're doomed ;))
[02:16] <hornbeck> it looks like it
[02:17] <hornbeck> can I just back up my .gnupg folder in case of computer dieing?
[02:17] <enrico> hornbeck: what's the date in your computer?
[02:17] <enrico> hornbeck: sure
[02:17] <enrico> hornbeck: that's all the data gnupg stores around
[02:17] <hornbeck> Nov 14th 7:17 right now
[02:17] <enrico> hornbeck: of course, that needs to be treated with care
[02:17] <hornbeck> right
[02:18] <enrico> It tells me that they key has been created on 2004-11-13 (?)
[02:18] <hornbeck> hold on
[02:19] <hornbeck> it shows it was made on 2004-11-14 on my computer
[02:19] <enrico> Must be the keyserver
[02:19] <hornbeck> maybe
[02:20] <hornbeck> hey robertj
[02:20] <robertj> heya
[02:20] <hornbeck> I hear you are interested in the Ubuntu Book?
[02:20] <hornbeck> maybe
[02:20] <robertj> Yeah
[02:20] <hornbeck> nice
[02:20] <hornbeck> well what kind of information you looking for?
[02:21] <hornbeck> you can see the outline at http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline
[02:21] <robertj> oky, does that have info on the svn repostiory?
[02:21] <hornbeck> no
[02:22] <hornbeck> I have not put that info there yet
[02:22] <robertj> ok
[02:22] <hornbeck> the svn server is http://69.155.172.150/book
[02:22] <robertj> I've been doing some thinking though
[02:23] <robertj> and I think the basic manual should avoid command line stuff with the exception that it have a pointer to a "Using Ubuntu from the Command Line"
[02:23] <hornbeck> I thought about it, but I really need to be shown the advantage of that
[02:24] <robertj> hornbeck: well it cuts down on dead-tree weight
[02:24] <hornbeck> I am always open to having my mind changed :-)
[02:24] <hornbeck> that is true
[02:24] <robertj> users have a phobia of thick manuals
[02:24] <hornbeck> ok
[02:24] <enrico> hornbeck: sent the password
[02:24] <robertj> also people probably need a bit of help with paripherals
[02:24] <hornbeck> ok
[02:25] <hornbeck> right
[02:25] <robertj> "Scanner, camera, printer, etc"
[02:25] <hornbeck> robertj: how about you email me with all of your ideas, we can than start going back and forth and get some work done on it
[02:26] <robertj> I do need to get things down, I will try to do that tonight
[02:26] <hornbeck> can you pull my email from the mailing list?
[02:26] <robertj> yeah
[02:26] <robertj> it's archived
[02:26] <hornbeck> nice
[02:26] <robertj> just a bit of background
[02:26] <hornbeck> I would be glad to have you help
[02:26] <robertj> I'm a sysadmin in a mostly Mac school, we run Linux on the backend, and are switching more and more stuff over to Ubuntu
[02:27] <hornbeck> I am switching a library to Ubuntu
[02:27] <hornbeck> public library
[02:27] <robertj> that should be a breeze
[02:27] <hornbeck> you would think
[02:27] <robertj> any problems?
[02:27] <hornbeck> a few, but it is getting done
[02:27] <hornbeck> nothing I cannot figure out
[02:28] <robertj> btw, how does gnome react to having it's home directory chmodded 555 ;)
[02:28] <hornbeck> the fun has been learning to build a web/svn server this past week
[02:28] <hornbeck> never tried
[02:28] <robertj> so how are you locking it down
[02:28] <robertj> I thought kiosk and lockdown stuff was'nt slated until 2.10
[02:30] <hornbeck> enrico: you are added
[02:30] <enrico> hornbeck: thanks
[02:30] <hornbeck> robertj: we are not locking it down really.  I have it set to load a desktop with no panels, just some icons
[02:31] <hornbeck> we are not really worried about someone doing anything
[02:31] <sivang> mainly working on a prototype currently, right?
[02:31] <sivang> :)
[02:31] <hornbeck> sivang: that is a different project
[02:31] <robertj> I'll be right back
[02:31] <hornbeck> ok
[02:31] <robertj> changing computarss
[02:33] <hornbeck> well I am off to dinner
[02:55] <robertj> Anyone home?
[02:58] <sivang> yes
[02:58] <sivang> me here :)
[02:58] <sivang> How you bee robertj ?
[03:00] <robertj> oky
[03:00] <robertj> I'm working on hacking out my take on a preferred index
[03:01] <robertj> Want me to make a scratch page on the wiki and work on it together?
[03:02] <sivang> yes, whenever you do something, and wish people to see it and comment, just put it on the wiki. it would be great, and provide ground to more contrib on your started stuff.
[03:02] <robertj> well I meant really short term
[03:02] <sivang> preferred index to what?
[03:03] <robertj> the book, current at http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline
[03:03] <sivang> ok, if you think something else should be the index,
[03:03] <sivang> then just create another page with say, the same name but add like "ALternativeIndex" to it,
[03:03] <sivang> and then fire off email to the mailing list,
[03:03] <sivang> requesting for feedback.
[03:04] <sivang> usually that is how we do stuff here :)
[03:04] <sivang> even if it is 2 lines, it's ok. maybe your 2 lines would inspire someone to do 200 lines on it...:)_
[03:16] <robertj> urgh, sloooow wiki ;)
[03:17] <sivang> yes
[03:17] <sivang> I know. it's being worked on...
[03:25] <hornbeck> I'm back
[03:25] <sivang> anyhow, I need to upload my version of the gnome-doc
[03:25] <hornbeck> ok
[03:25] <sivang> that should be the curret version,
[03:25] <hornbeck> you have access to it
[03:25] <sivang> I had it chaged.
[03:25] <sivang> ok, how do I do that?
[03:25] <sivang> :)
[03:26] <sivang> now that you are svn_central@hornbeck.org :)
[03:26] <hornbeck> I thought you where going to make diffs against them and patch the current svn
[03:27] <hornbeck> sivang: people have already pulled the gnome-docs so others may be working on them
[03:27] <sivang> ah!!!
[03:27] <hornbeck> if we pull it all than we may mess others up
[03:27] <sivang> that is bad
[03:27] <hornbeck> I would suggest checking out the svn
[03:27] <sivang> Ok, I will write to the mailing list..
[03:27] <sivang> ok,
[03:27] <sivang> and then?
[03:27] <sivang> diffing ?
[03:27] <hornbeck> do svn diff file > file.diff and patch it
[03:28] <hornbeck> I think that would work
[03:28] <sivang> then check it back in?
[03:28] <hornbeck> than svn commit
[03:28] <hornbeck> yeah
[03:28] <sivang> ah
[03:28] <hornbeck> so that it will be in revision
[03:28] <sivang> how do the versions get merged?
[03:28] <hornbeck> I honestly don't know :-)
[03:28] <hornbeck> they just do
[03:29] <sivang> amazing.
[03:29] <hornbeck> you may be able to check out the svn, delete the files and commit what you have back
[03:29] <hornbeck> I don't know if that would work but it may
[03:29] <hornbeck> how much has been changed?
[03:30] <robertj> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ProposedIndex/document_view
[03:30] <robertj> thats my first hack at it
[03:30] <sivang> btw, have you tried "
[03:30] <sivang> apt-get install gnome-app-install ?
[03:30] <sivang> amazing
[03:30] <sivang> stuff
[03:31] <robertj> yup
[03:31] <robertj> I was the one who asked about it in ubuntu-devel to get jdub to pipe up ;)
[03:32] <robertj> silvang: what do you think of that outline?
[03:33] <hornbeck> nope have not tried it
[03:33] <hornbeck> what is it?
[03:33] <robertj> hornbeck: it's a new installation frontend for packages
[03:33] <robertj> it mimicks the Application menu structure and you check the applications you want, uncheck those you don't
[03:34] <robertj> press apply and then it installs/uninstalls to make it work
[03:34] <hornbeck> nice
[03:34] <hornbeck> I will check it out
[03:34] <robertj> hornbeck: did you check out that alternate index?
[03:34] <hornbeck> I like what you have here, robertj
[03:34] <hornbeck> I am looking now
[03:35] <robertj> need to find a place to put in CD burning
[03:35] <robertj> maybe Adding PAripherals should just become "Paripherals"
[03:36] <robertj> Since it's internal some people may not think of CD-Burners as paripherals though
[03:36] <hornbeck> yeah
[03:36] <hornbeck> a Common Task group
[03:36] <hornbeck> with cd-burning, email, web browsing
[03:36] <robertj> But im against having deeper nested indexes
[03:36] <hornbeck> music
[03:36] <hornbeck> take out applications
[03:36] <hornbeck> put that stuff in common task
[03:36] <hornbeck> what you think?
[03:37] <robertj> Good
[03:37] <robertj> I can't think of any other apps people would be interested in that wouldn't be covered by that
[03:38] <robertj> so actually all of Switchers goes away and become common tasks
[03:38] <hornbeck> so lets remove applications and add a common task, with music, web browsing, cd burning, email
[03:38] <hornbeck> yeah
[03:38] <robertj> And lets promote it to become item #2
[03:39] <hornbeck> common task?
[03:39] <robertj> yeah
[03:39] <robertj> its a tossup
[03:40] <hornbeck> I think gnome than common task
[03:40] <hornbeck> so they know how to use gnome before trying to figure out where things are
[03:40] <robertj> Well I was thinking it could be illustrated 1 2 3
[03:40] <robertj> The instant gratification section
[03:41] <hornbeck> hmm
[03:41] <robertj> is "Learn by Doing" too condescending?
[03:42] <hornbeck> Learning by doing does not work for people who are not computer inclined
[03:42] <hornbeck> they need super hand holding
[03:42] <hornbeck> so a Using Gnome before common task would help because they would learn where things are in the panels
[03:43] <hornbeck> I teach a linux class and it is amazing how much hand holding is needed for simple things
[03:43] <robertj> well I was thinking it should show everything
[03:43] <robertj> start off with the screen
[03:44] <hornbeck> like one chapter?
[03:44] <robertj> have a little red circle around the applications menu
[03:44] <robertj> then a picture of the cursor over the menu with the menu down
[03:44] <hornbeck> that would be nice
[03:44] <robertj> Printing costs may be prohibitive though
[03:45] <hornbeck> so take out the using gnome, and tie it all into learning the other things
[03:45] <hornbeck> we are looking at seeking a publisher
[03:45] <hornbeck> so printing cost is something we need not really worry about
[03:45] <hornbeck> if anything it will be online
[03:47] <robertj> For now common tasks goes to #3 though
[03:47] <hornbeck> with Using Gnome #2?
[03:48] <robertj> yeah
[03:49] <hornbeck> I am doing a proposed idea under yours
[03:49] <hornbeck> brb
[03:49] <robertj> ok
[03:57] <hornbeck> ok, check that out
[03:59] <robertj> hrmm, I think its better not to touch synaptic
[03:59] <robertj> and I think Common Tasks should get it's own chapter
[04:00] <robertj> That way the first page index can only be two levels deep but they will still all show up
[04:00] <robertj> let me revise mine again
[04:00] <hornbeck> ok
[04:04] <robertj> check that out
[04:04] <robertj> I left out managing windows
[04:05] <hornbeck> I think just a create cd would work, don't need two
[04:05] <hornbeck> have the two together
[04:06] <robertj> the two don't have that much to do with each other from a user perspective though
[04:06] <hornbeck> most people just "burn cd's"
[04:06] <robertj> one uses Nautlius (that's Gnome to brandma) and one uses Rhythmbox
[04:06] <hornbeck> ohhh, ok
[04:06] <hornbeck> I got cha
[04:06] <hornbeck> that works than
[04:07] <robertj> or will by Hoary hopefully
[04:07] <hornbeck> Applications at the bottom can be taken out
[04:07] <hornbeck> under common task a word processor section would be nice
[04:07] <hornbeck> instead of a whole section on OpenOffice
[04:08] <hornbeck> what you think?
[04:10] <robertj> How about make mailing labels?
[04:10] <robertj> too advanced/
[04:11] <hornbeck> too advanced
[04:11] <hornbeck> I changed my section again
[04:11] <hornbeck> check it out
[04:13] <robertj> How about Write a Letter instead of Word Processing
[04:13] <hornbeck> that works
[04:14] <hornbeck> I must say this is nice having someone give ideas about this :-)
[04:14] <robertj> I think we should have an applications section in more info or elsewhere
[04:14] <robertj> left hand column IE icon, right hand column, firefosx
[04:14] <robertj> left hand colomn photoshop, right hand column gimp
[04:15] <robertj> left hand iTunes/Mediaplayer, right hand Rhythmbox
[04:15] <hornbeck> to let them know the equivalent
[04:15] <robertj> yeah
[04:15] <hornbeck> that works
[04:15] <hornbeck> but not in depth howto's for apps
[04:15] <hornbeck> not a whole OpenOffice section
[04:15] <robertj> the more info section was not to be a "how to use openoffice"
[04:15] <robertj> its a "URL is here, order a printed manual here"
[04:15] <hornbeck> nice
[04:16] <robertj> aka the "Pimp your Application" section
[04:16] <hornbeck> it could be "icons/urls/blurb about app"
[04:16] <hornbeck> hey George
[04:17] <sivang> yo Geroge!
[04:17] <George^Deka> hi hornbeck, sivang
[04:17] <robertj> let's think about that one
[04:17] <sivang> robertj : your ideas looks similar to what enrico's had envisioned :)
[04:17] <sivang> nice
[04:18] <robertj> I mean, everyone will browse through the menu, and there really isn't anything much to add besides "if the three word synopsis interests you, put the application name in google"
[04:18] <hornbeck> brb
[04:21] <robertj> changed again
[04:22] <hornbeck> that looks good
[04:22] <hornbeck> ok, so are you happy with that layout?
[04:22] <robertj> yeah
[04:23] <hornbeck> alright, I will start changing the docbook file, do you have time too go through the wiki and change those pages?
[04:23] <robertj> I'm concerned about the Get Online seciton
[04:23] <robertj> actually no, I gotta go in 7 minutes
[04:23] <robertj> promised the Mrs we would go get hot chocolate ;)
[04:23] <hornbeck> nice
[04:23] <robertj> Get Online has a lot of variables
[04:24] <hornbeck> I have to do stuff with my wife in alittle while also
[04:24] <robertj> mainly winmodems and pppoe that are concerning
[04:24] <hornbeck> yeah
[04:24] <hornbeck> you want to leave that out for now?
[04:24] <robertj> configure a modem is easy enough for some people but it should probably go under paripherals
[04:24] <hornbeck> or how could we approch that?
[04:24] <robertj> yeah
[04:24] <robertj> and if you have a network with dhcp, well, you really don't need a section
[04:24] <hornbeck> yeah
[04:25] <hornbeck> so we will leave that section out.
[04:25] <hornbeck> Will you have any time tomorrow?
[04:25] <robertj> maybe it needs a chapter
[04:25] <robertj> yeah, I will
[04:25] <robertj> I'll be on at work
[04:25] <hornbeck> I will start working on this tonight, and I will work tomorrow on getting the wiki up to speed with it
[04:25] <hornbeck> my first task is to change the docbook version
[04:26] <robertj> actually, I'd rather we spent time fleshing out some of the subsections first
[04:26] <hornbeck> such as?
[04:26] <robertj> Paripherals, System Config, mainly
[04:26] <robertj> Dual-boot partitioning for installation
[04:27] <hornbeck> I updated the page
[04:27] <robertj> Great
[04:28] <hornbeck> Thats fine, but the problem is if we leave the other's there with this drastic of a change others could start working on it and be completly off base
[04:28] <robertj> Alrighty, you going to be on alter tonight?
[04:28] <hornbeck> I would like to at least get a basic layout change and work through that
[04:28] <hornbeck> I will be on and off for about another three hours
[04:28] <robertj> ok, I might be back on later
[04:28] <hornbeck> alright
[04:28] <robertj> I'd advise telling people to chill until Wed
[04:28] <hornbeck> I will start working on the changes
[04:29] <hornbeck> I will mail the list
[04:29] <robertj> DocBook should be the very last step
[04:29] <hornbeck> I have more in the docbook than on the wiki
[04:29] <hornbeck> That is something I work on everyday
[04:29] <robertj> I've got a very bad opinion of DocBook
[04:29] <hornbeck> but I can hold on it till we get some more down
[04:29] <hornbeck> docbook is great
[04:30] <robertj> its great in a million different ways ;)
[04:30] <robertj> but it's still a pain to do some simple tasks
[04:30] <robertj> anyway, Gotta go!
[04:30] <hornbeck> have fun
[04:30] <robertj> see you tomorrow if not tonight!
[04:30] <hornbeck> ok
[04:30] <robertj> will do, thanks for the chat!
[04:30] <hornbeck> thanks
[04:30] <hornbeck> that was fun :-)
[04:33] <George^Deka> is there a way to install win32 codecs without installing mplayer
[04:33] <hornbeck> I am not sure
[04:33] <hornbeck> But I am taking off
[04:33] <hornbeck> Be back later
[04:33] <George^Deka> cause i dont really want to install mplayer
[04:33] <George^Deka> cya later
[06:36] <hornbeck> loggin off for the night
[06:36] <hornbeck> later
[07:06] <plovs_work> good morning
[07:06] <hornbeck> good morning
[07:09] <plovs_work> hornbeck, do you have dns entry already or not yet?
[07:09] <hornbeck> nope
[07:09] <hornbeck> I don't have a domain to lock onto it yet
[07:09] <hornbeck> I would like ubuntudocs.org
[07:09] <hornbeck> just need to get the money and register it
[07:10] <hornbeck> than they could be ubuntudocs.org/faq
[07:10] <plovs_work> hornbeck, sounds good
[07:10] <hornbeck> ubuntudocs.org/gnome-docs
[07:10] <hornbeck> ubuntudocs.org/book
[07:10] <hornbeck> that would work good
[07:10] <plovs_work> what's the ip again? i'm at work atm
[07:10] <hornbeck> 69.155.172.150
[07:11] <hornbeck> how can we get pages on the actual Ubuntu site changed?
[07:12] <plovs_work> hornbeck, just change them
[07:12] <hornbeck> the Community Council site has links to the old wiki
[07:12] <hornbeck> How do I do that?
[07:12] <hornbeck> there is no edit tab?
[07:12] <plovs_work> hornbeck, login?
[07:12] <hornbeck> I did
[07:12] <hornbeck> it is a locked page
[07:13] <plovs_work> some pages are locked by the admins
[07:13] <hornbeck> yeah that is one of them
[07:13] <hornbeck> and it links to the old wiki for the agenda
[07:14] <plovs_work> make a link on the wiki called: ThingsThatSuckInTheWiki
[07:14] <plovs_work> 1. slooooow
[07:14] <hornbeck> very slow
[07:14] <plovs_work> 2. needed pages locked
[07:14] <plovs_work> 3. old wiki still not redirected
[07:14] <hornbeck> has asw talked in awhile?
[07:15] <hornbeck> he is always logged in
[07:15] <hornbeck> but I never hear him say anything
[07:15] <plovs_work> he's kind of quiet
[07:15] <hornbeck> I guess
[07:15] <hornbeck> but I am off to sleep, I have along day tomorrow
[07:15] <plovs_work> reminds me of the story of the finnish guy who had been dead for six years before they found him
[07:15] <hornbeck> damn
[07:15] <plovs_work> hornbeck, ok, goodnight
[07:15] <hornbeck> night
[08:18] <trickie> hornbeck, you around?
[10:51] <lulu> morning all! :o)
[10:52] <plovs_work> lulu, morning
[10:52] <lulu> hey! Did you have a good weekend?
[10:53] <plovs_work> very nice, lots of guests, i'll need a week to rest from the weekend
[10:53] <plovs_work> good the weekends are a couple of days apart
[10:59] <trickie> i am glad monday is over... he he 
[11:06] <lulu> trickie: for some :o)
[11:08] <lulu> plovs_work: just got your email - working on it.
[11:31] <plovs> lulu, ok
[12:13] <sivang> Morning everybody!
[12:13] <skyrider> sivang: morning
[12:14] <sivang> lulu : Hi! Any news on an announcement section? ;)
[12:26] <ChrisH> lulu: Morning... did you read? I booked the flight. :)
[12:26] <ChrisH> lulu: Wife and mascot will come, too.
[12:28] <sivang> mascot? he should be wearing a baby's penguin shirt :))
[12:29] <lulu> sivang: yes - worked on it on Thurs - am going thru my email box - will be back in touch on this one shortly.
[12:29] <plovs_work> sivang, good morning
[12:29] <plovs_work> ChrisH, moin
[12:29] <lulu> ChrisH: that's great news! I did read so :o)
[12:32] <plovs_work> lulu, any news on moving the old wiki?
[12:33] <lulu> plovs_work - that should have been done :o( could you check status with  James Troup on that today?
[12:33] <lulu> tx!
[12:33] <plovs_work> lulu, ok
[12:37] <ChrisH> plovs_work: moin
[12:58] <plovs_work> ChrisH, what do you use for backup?
[01:00] <ChrisH> plovs_work: afbackup
[01:06] <plovs_work> ChrisH, thanks
[01:06] <ChrisH> plovs_work: I also tried bacula which seemed quite nice but it hang here and there. afbackup isn't perfect either (doesn't tell when a tape is broken) but most of the time is okay.
[01:15] <sivang> plovs_work : that means there should be not more old wiki?
[01:28] <plovs_work> ChrisH, ok, looking now
[01:28] <plovs_work> sivang, the old wiki should be moved to oldwiki and the new one should also answer to wiki.ubuntulinux...
[01:28] <sivang> ah great.
[01:28] <sivang> this is how it's supposed to be, I think.
[01:32] <plovs_work> sivang, yeah, think so too
[01:43] <sivang> hi mercurus
[01:43] <mercurus> greetings
[02:06] <sivang> mercurus : are you working on anything specific to the doc team? :) I think I've seen you around..
[02:22] <mercurus> sivang, I made a start on a multimedia HOWTO
[02:23] <mercurus> but I finished my last exam 3 hours ago, so I'm having a bit of a break :
[02:23] <mercurus> :)
[02:24] <hornbeck> good morning
[02:25] <sivang> mercurus : ah great, what are you studying?
[02:26] <mercurus> sivang, law and political science
[02:29] <plovs_work> hornbeck, i thought you would be sleeping, so i asked you by mail
[02:30] <hornbeck> I was sleeping :-)
[02:30] <hornbeck> I just got up
[02:30] <hornbeck> I walk straight to the computer
[02:32] <plovs_work> hornbeck, that sounds familiar
[02:32] <hornbeck> haha
[02:32] <hornbeck> its like a magnet
[02:32] <hornbeck> drawing me in
[02:35] <plovs_work> hornbeck, that's why it's called the web :-)
[02:36] <hornbeck> ahhh
[02:36] <hornbeck> your one smart guy plovs
[02:37] <hornbeck> So anyone else going to download Solaris 10?
[02:38] <rcaskey_> hello all
[02:39] <hornbeck> hello
[02:39] <rcaskey_> how are things going?
[02:40] <hornbeck> well, they are good. Eating breakfast getting ready for a new day
[02:45] <plovs_work> hornbeck, you? solaris 10?
[02:47] <sivang> why the %#$%$ would I want to download solaris? I have Ubuntu :)
[02:48] <hornbeck> I guess you guys don't like to play around with things
[02:50] <hornbeck> and sivang: not even two weeks ago you where still running debian exclusivly
[02:50] <hornbeck> :-)
[02:50] <plovs_work> hornbeck, i played with solaris 9, i liked some of it
[02:50] <ChrisH> Solaris is only for ugly people. ;)
[02:50] <hornbeck> hey enrico, did not see you there
[02:51] <hornbeck> man I cannot touch solaris than, I am to pretty
[02:51] <sivang> hornbeck : I have Ubuntu rnning as my main system for the last 2 moths already 
[02:51] <enrico> hornbeck: where?
[02:51] <plovs_work> ChrisH, solaris is for very rich people (thay can afford it to be ugly)
[02:51] <ChrisH> I have enough licenses at work for our former firewalls. But I'm not ugly enough for it.
[02:51] <hornbeck> sivang: I thought like a week ago you said you was still on debian, because Ubuntu would not run on your laptop right
[02:52] <ChrisH> My last experience with the "package management" system of Solaris was... Solaris: "There are unmet dependencies. Do you want to have them resolved?" Me: "Yes" Solaris: "Then do it, dammit! And come back when you have."
[02:52] <hornbeck> haha
[02:52] <hornbeck> thats great
[02:52] <sivang> hornbeck : ah, the laptop is other story, my main system has been running Ubuntu the last 2 moths :))
[02:52] <plovs_work> so solaris and redhat are related?
[02:53] <hornbeck> sivang: I misunderstood, I thought the laptop was your main system
[02:53] <hornbeck> man plovs: you bet me to it
[02:54] <plovs_work> i never understood why they sticked to rpm, for the rest it is not that bad
[02:54] <sivang> laptop is , "Dell [don't know how to choose good ACPI supporting BIOS, don't know how to do good PCI controllers]  Inspiron 8200 here : https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2315
[02:54] <plovs_work> sivang, a company that uses the word dude in it's commercials should not be trusted
[02:54] <plovs_work> dude
[02:55] <plovs_work> bows to enrico
[02:55] <hornbeck> I use a dell 600m, its like butter
[02:55] <hornbeck> just smoooooooooooth
[02:55] <hornbeck> everything is supported just fine
[02:55] <plovs_work> fatty and high cholestrol?
[02:56] <enrico> fries on high temperatures?
[02:56] <hornbeck> I am american, we don't do things that are not fatty and high cholestrol
[02:56] <sivang> plovs_work : something like that..
[02:56] <sivang> :)
[02:57] <plovs_work> hornbeck, would be nice to see how solaaris and linux nfs play along now
[02:57] <hornbeck> see you are coming around now
[02:57] <hornbeck> I knew that you wanted to try it :-)
[02:58] <plovs_work> i don't, i'm just addicted to os-es
[02:58] <plovs_work> i even installed ME once
[02:59] <hornbeck> man, that was going to far
[02:59] <hornbeck> I installed freedos once
[02:59] <plovs_work> but actually i did like some things of solaris, but i like debian better
[02:59] <plovs_work> freedos, so did i in bochs
[02:59] <hornbeck> well I never said I was switching my computers to it
[03:00] <hornbeck> I just said I was going to download it and play with it
[03:00] <hornbeck> FreeBSD is nice
[03:00] <plovs_work> freebsd is nice actually
[03:00] <sivang> I reckon it's much better then solaris
[03:00] <plovs_work> well...
[03:00] <hornbeck> same guy made both
[03:00] <sivang> he did?
[03:00] <sivang> hmmm
[03:01] <hornbeck> well, same guy made BSD and solaris
[03:01] <hornbeck> Bill Joy
[03:01] <plovs_work> there is a lot of money behind solaris
[03:01] <plovs_work> solaris is bsd+lots of other stuff on top
[03:01] <hornbeck> Bill Joy was on the main team for BSD in the 70's and was one of Sun's founders
[03:01] <plovs_work> off course it is only really good on sun hardware
[03:02] <sivang> what bsd?
[03:02] <sivang> or, freebsd?
[03:02] <hornbeck> Sun
[03:02] <hornbeck> Solaris is only really good on Sun hardware
[03:02] <sivang> btw, I thought there was an army of developers behind freebsd, not one person.
[03:02] <hornbeck> BSD was before freebsd
[03:02] <hornbeck> Bill Joy was one of lead developers
[03:03] <hornbeck> freebsd is alot of people
[03:03] <hornbeck> I was saying they both have their roots in the same guy
[03:04] <sivang> ah ok, could you believe that the people who made winNT /(XP?) are some of those who created OpenVMS ?
[03:04] <sivang> :)
[03:04] <hornbeck> what is OpenVMS?
[03:05] <plovs_work> sivang, not openVMS VMS
[03:05] <sivang> sorry
[03:05] <sivang> VMS
[03:05] <sivang> yes
[03:05] <hornbeck> ok
[03:05] <sivang> not OpenVMS
[03:05] <sivang> plovs_work : OpenVMS was made by digital also?
[03:05] <sivang> || what's the difference between the two?
[03:05] <plovs_work> sivang, i ask the mighty google
[03:06] <plovs_work> history of NT:
[03:06] <plovs_work> http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494
[03:07] <plovs_work> or how they took a stable OS and made it fundamentally insecure 
[03:07] <plovs_work> yes, all digital guys
[03:07] <plovs_work> together under cutler
[03:08] <hornbeck> well guys, I am going to go after my boss now about UPS, Backup drives, and a better router for the server
[03:09] <hornbeck> I will be back when I get them
[03:09] <plovs_work> hornbeck, did you know that openwall is build on top  of freebsd?
[03:09] <hornbeck> yes
[03:09] <hornbeck> you mean monowall?
[03:09] <plovs_work> hornbeck, yes off-course , duh
[03:09] <hornbeck> you are just OpenPlovs today huh?
[03:10] <plovs_work> hornbeck, i was thinking about openbsd when i wrote that
[03:10] <hornbeck> I think I need openhornbeck.org
[03:10] <plovs_work> ;-)
[03:10] <plovs_work> FreePlovs.org
[03:10] <plovs_work> hmm, that sounds like kevin whatshisname
[03:10] <hornbeck> that makes you sound like you are in jail though
[03:10] <plovs_work> mitnick
[03:11] <plovs_work> yeah, plovaris
[03:11] <plovs_work> plovix
[03:11] <hornbeck> hornix
[03:11] <plovs_work> hahaha
[03:11] <plovs_work> let's stay with Ubuntu
[03:11] <hornbeck> damn
[03:12] <hornbeck> but I am off to get stuff
[03:12] <plovs_work> ok, see ya
[03:12] <rcaskey_> Linux is making me happy
[03:12] <rcaskey_> unlike OS X, it does not segfault randomly and unmount devices with no errors
[03:12] <plovs_work> rcaskey_, adding more memory always helps with OS X
[03:13] <rcaskey_> 512
[03:13] <rcaskey_> not great, but it shouldn't segfault and behave that badly
[03:14] <plovs_work> hmm, good thing you can install Ubuntu then :-)
[03:18] <lulu> sivang: ping
[03:18] <rcaskey_> %s/can\ install/have\ installed
[03:20] <sivang> lulu : pong
[03:22] <plovs_work> rcaskey_, are you interested in writing or helping with documenting ubuntu?
[03:22] <rcaskey_> yup
[03:22] <rcaskey_> I worked with hornbeck yesterday to revise the top-level index
[03:23] <plovs_work> rcaskey_,  top-level index of what?
[03:25] <plovs_work> rcaskey_, the faq?
[03:31] <rcaskey_> the book
[03:32] <lulu> sivang: we are good for go on the news section - you need to create a news item (an announcement) and it should publish fine. 
[03:33] <sivang> lulu : ah great! thanks!
[03:33] <lulu> sivang: the portlet should appear below quick links and above Amazon - we are customising Amazon to show one book and rotate them randomly, soon.
[03:33] <sivang> that's nice
[03:34] <lulu> sivang: let me know when you've published one and I'll have a look. Tx :o)
[03:34] <plovs_work> rcaskey_, ah, ok
[03:34] <sivang> thanks lulu and also thank the others who munge the zope :)
[03:34] <lulu> BradB's our man :o)
[03:35] <sivang> lulu : am I go to just go and publish? is there anyway I can sumbit it for review to you before I got and make it public?
[03:50] <plovs_work> sivang, i suppose that's a yes 
[03:51] <sivang> plovs_work : I just wanted to make sure, you have an option in the plone - to keep something private untill you set it as published
[03:51] <lulu> sivang: yes publish. I need to check the default workflow of it. I'm sure it's fine - go ahead and I'll get back to ya.
[03:52] <plovs_work> sivang, knock and you'll be opened as they say...
[03:52] <sivang> lulu : thanks
[03:52] <plovs_work> sivang, where will the news items pop up?
[03:52] <sivang> plovs_work : somwhere upper then the amazong item I think
[03:52] <WW> Hey doc folks.
[03:53] <lulu> sivang: we have an ubuntu workflow that replaces the plone workflow. we have the default help centre (documentation) workflow that works a little differently and then folder workflow. I think the news item is part of help centre....
[03:53] <WW> Here's a small request... add a FAQ (or something) about the "warty-updates" repository.  I'd do it myself, but I don't really know what it is!
[03:54] <sivang> lulu : ok, I think I'm starting to grasp it. but it does display in the main mapge? (not /docu...) this is important in order to ease new comers on navigating to stuff :)
[03:54] <plovs_work> WW, what do you mean? how to update to warty?
[03:55] <WW> plovs_work: No, just an explanation of the "warty-updates" repository... what it is, what is Ubuntu's policy about adding to it, etc.
[03:56] <lulu> sivang: will do
[03:57] <WW> plovs_work: ... how and when to use it, etc.
[03:58] <plovs_work> WW, i'll take a look at it tonoght
[03:58] <WW> plovs_work: I could find nothing about it on the Ubuntu web page, and it is not in sources.list by default.  I only learned about it through the forums.
[03:58] <plovs_work> WW, forums link?
[03:58] <WW> plovs_work: just a sec...
[04:00] <WW> plovs_work: For example, this one show a sample sources.list that contains warty-updates: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3691
[04:01] <WW> plovs_work: One more tidbit: Kamion in #ubuntu said there is a bug filed about sources.list not containing warty-updates.  I haven't looked for the bug yet.
[04:04] <WW> plovs_work: The bug is 3122.  This bug also mentions the lack of documentation :)
[04:06] <plovs_work> WW, thanks, i'll look at it today
[04:11] <rcaskey_> plovs: have you seen http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline yet?
[04:19] <lulu> sivang: ping
[05:00] <lulu> sivang: u there?
[05:03] <sivang> lulu : back, but I have to go again in a minute
[05:03] <sivang> lulu : what have you come with?
[05:03] <sivang> :)
[05:03] <lulu> sivang: ok - we seem to be having a problem
[05:04] <sivang> lulu : it doesn't add the section?
[05:04] <lulu> i saw u created the news item in undo_form
[05:04] <lulu> can u tell me where it's saved the item?
[05:04] <lulu> can u send me the link please?
[05:04] <lulu> did you publish it, or keep it visible?
[05:04] <sivang> lulu : ah I didn't IMHO :) I just closed the browser window after trinyg to create one, as a test merely
[05:04] <sivang> lulu : lemme check
[05:05] <sivang> wiki's fast though.
[05:05] <sivang> was slow last night
[05:05] <lulu> ok - please redo a proper announcement that u want to keep and publish so i can see where it appears.
[05:06] <sivang> ok, lulu, will do.
[05:06] <sivang> I can't find nothing of the last try BTW
[05:06] <sivang> where did you find it?
[05:07] <lulu> only in the undo form where I see a news item was created.
[05:07] <lulu> but I couldn't find the actual doc anywhere....
[05:07] <lulu> please redo and we'll go from there.....tx!
[05:07] <sivang> no prob
[05:23] <lulu> plovs_work:ping
[06:12] <lulu> sivang:ping
[06:13] <sivang> lulu : pong, working on it , I want to make a news item about gnome-app-install
[06:13] <lulu> sivang: ok - will you be ready in the next half hr or so?
[06:15] <sivang> lulu : yes, I will ping you when it's done..I'm in the process of collecting info about it
[06:15] <lulu> sivang: ok.. np
[06:22] <rcaskey_> sivang: it's not very, err, done
[06:22] <rcaskey_> I'd hld back
[06:36] <sivang> lulu : the WYSIWYG editor oopses on me, won't let me change font size. etc..
[06:37] <sivang> clicking the 'fonts' icon gives nothing, trying text formatting.
[06:37] <sivang> ok, this helps.
[06:40] <lulu> Sivang: you can turn kupu off in your preferences....there are bugs in it with Firefox...
[06:40] <sivang> lulu : ok, thanks
[06:53] <sivang> lulu : how can I create a code secion in kupu ?
[07:00] <lulu> sivang: in kupu - I click on source and do it in html <pre> and  </pre>
[07:04] <sivang> lulu : ok, thanks again!
[07:07] <littlegreenman> sivang, hi!
[07:08] <littlegreenman> sivang, do u know how to get mp3 files playing on ubuntu?
[07:08] <sivang> littlegreenman : hi!
[07:08] <sivang> lulu : just added the news item, can't see where it went...
[07:09] <plovs> hi guys, gals!
[07:09] <plovs> lulu, yes?
[07:13] <plovs> plovs_work, yes, i saw the outline
[07:13] <plovs> rcaskey_, yes I saw the outline
[07:14] <sivang> littlegreenman : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[07:14] <rcaskey_> plovs: any thoughts?
[07:15] <littlegreenman> sivang, yeah, just been there... don't think it's helping, the music player of ubuntu does not play...
[07:15] <littlegreenman> gonna try totem
[07:15] <littlegreenman> no sound....
[07:16] <plovs> rcaskey_, chapter 2 is basically the gnome manual
[07:18] <sivang> littlegreenman : you can try totem, totem-xine, XMMS also plays MP3 given the right plugin.
[07:18] <littlegreenman> sivang, damn... the volume was down!!!!
[07:18] <plovs> rcaskey_, adding and removing software, very usefull i hope
[07:18] <sivang> littlegreenman : hmmmmm .....;-P
[07:18] <sivang> :)
[07:18] <littlegreenman> :D why does it come down by default? and why do i blame ubuntu right away?
[07:18] <littlegreenman> :D
[07:19] <littlegreenman> live and learn.... it's not all ubuntu's fault... 
[07:19] <littlegreenman> :)
[07:19] <plovs> littlegreenman, welcome to the world of music! and yes it always does that and we all hate it
[07:19] <littlegreenman> plovs :)
[07:20] <plovs> rcaskey_, basically it looks good, but a lot needs to be written in a couple of months
[07:20] <sivang> plovs : maybe this should be noted somewhere on Room101 ?
[07:21] <plovs> sivang, good idea, i really hate it when it does that, i also have been staring at the sound-system
[07:22] <sivang> littlegreenman : would you add it? go to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Room101, add what you just did, try make it understandable as much to other people :)
[07:22] <littlegreenman> yep :)
[07:24] <sivang> littlegreenman : thanks
[07:32] <lulu> night all :o)
[07:32] <sivang> night lulu
[07:32] <lulu> sivang: let's get that announcement done tomorrow when you're done, ok?
[07:33] <sivang> lulu : I was done :) but couldn't find it..
[07:33] <sivang> never mind, tommorow, tommorow :)
[07:33] <lulu> sivang: ok - send me an email with the details...
[07:34] <sivang> lulu : I will try find them :) close the window since..
[07:34] <lulu> sivang: you've added a news item right?
[07:34] <sivang> lulu : yes, can't find it no more though
[07:35] <lulu> but u are working on it again aren't you?
[07:35] <sivang> lulu : I redid it
[07:35] <sivang> lulu : saved,
[07:35] <sivang> still - can't find it
[07:35] <sivang> never mind, we'll see tommroow
[07:35] <sivang> don't want to hold you 
[07:36] <lulu> ok - weird. will you report a bug and file it on BradB please in Bugzilla?  thanks :o)
[07:36] <lulu> he will be able to work on it today.
[07:36] <lulu> should be able to :o)
[07:36] <sivang> yes
[07:36] <lulu> sivang: thanks!
[07:37] <Fido_DD> #bdsm
[07:37] <littlegreenman> sivang, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CantPlayMP3s
[07:37] <littlegreenman> :)
[07:38] <sivang> superb! obligatta!
[07:38] <sivang> (or whatever it's spelled)
[07:39] <littlegreenman> :D obrigado :D
[07:39] <sivang> ok, at least I tried littlegreenman
[07:39] <sivang> :)
[07:39] <littlegreenman> actually, if you are a woman you say obrigada, if you are a man you say obrigado
[07:39] <littlegreenman> :D
[07:39] <sivang> ok, thanks
[07:39] <littlegreenman> and a very good attempt at that :D
[07:39] <littlegreenman> that's actually how it sounds... :)
[07:40] <sivang> ofcourse
[07:40] <sivang> I heared mostly brazillian portougese, so..
[07:41] <littlegreenman> :)
[07:41] <sivang> anyway, people I'm out for today...not so well..see you all tommorow
[09:25] <hornbeck> server is going down for about five minutes for install of UPS
[09:27] <plovs> hornbeck, you obviously do not understand what an UPS is used for
[09:27] <littlegreenman> LOL
[09:28] <ChrisH> :)
[09:28] <rcaskey_> I've got a UPS that lasts 20 seconds on my machines
[09:28] <ChrisH> "Server is going-down for high-availability."
[09:28] <rcaskey_> it's a consumer ups with like 6 servers plugged into it. It's enough to keep the departmental webserver on during the flickers we have
[09:36] <plovs> what's the bugzilla address?
[09:37] <hornbeck> UPS is in place :-)
[09:37] <rcaskey_> whee
[09:37] <plovs> hornbeck, checked svn works
[09:37] <hornbeck> good deal
[09:37] <hornbeck> I checked it to
[09:38] <plovs> hornbeck, what router did you get?
[09:38] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: thought any more about the structure of the book?
[09:38] <hornbeck> I will be putting in a nicer router tonight
[09:38] <hornbeck> are you robert?
[09:38] <rcaskey_> ja
[09:38] <hornbeck> cool
[09:38] <hornbeck> just like to know who I am talking to
[09:38] <rcaskey_> robertj@work ;)
[09:38] <rcaskey_> sorry about that
[09:39] <hornbeck> I think we should go with the index we came up with last night for now
[09:39] <rcaskey_> No elaboration?
[09:39] <hornbeck> as we go if we see other things that need to be added we can add
[09:39] <hornbeck> the problem is, if we start adding to much, we will not get it done
[09:39] <rcaskey_> I think it's the other way around
[09:39] <hornbeck> really
[09:39] <rcaskey_> if we elaborate more people can "get the picture" and write a few paragraphs
[09:40] <hornbeck> ok, I am open to suggestions
[09:40] <rcaskey_> I'd suggest we figure out what we want to cover in section 1
[09:40] <hornbeck> the installing section?
[09:40] <rcaskey_> yeah
[09:41] <rcaskey_> I put Ubuntu through the wife test
[09:41] <rcaskey_> and it failed on the partitioning stage of installation
[09:41] <hornbeck> I put it through the boss test :-)
[09:41] <rcaskey_> how'd he do?
[09:41] <hornbeck> mine failed in every section almost
[09:41] <hornbeck> we had to completly start over like three times
[09:41] <rcaskey_> what is there besides partioning to fail at?
[09:41] <hornbeck> usernaem
[09:41] <hornbeck> partitioning
[09:41] <rcaskey_> oh
[09:42] <rcaskey_> Apple does a good job with their username
[09:42] <rcaskey_> you put in your first and last name and it concatonates and truncates
[09:42] <hornbeck> computer name threw him off also
[09:42] <rcaskey_> You put in Robert Caskey it creates "robertcaskey"
[09:42] <hornbeck> thats a good idea
[09:42] <hornbeck> wish I could afford a apple to try it out
[09:42] <rcaskey_> Computer name should be set without asking
[09:43] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: You can emulate OS X now if you have a beefy machine and a lot of patience
[09:43] <hornbeck> I think each part of the installer should be gone over pretty good in the book
[09:43] <rcaskey_> I wonder how much that will change before Hoary 2
[09:43] <rcaskey_> err doh, hoary ;)
[09:43] <hornbeck> I wonder also
[09:44] <plovs> it's said to not to change much
[09:44] <plovs> no graphical installer etc
[09:44] <hornbeck> well we will go with what we have and try to make last minute changes when it comes time
[09:45] <plovs> hornbeck, you can try osx with pearpc, i tried it, quite nice
[09:45] <hornbeck> you have to have a OSX disk though
[09:46] <plovs> we have a g4 at work, i just used the install cd's from that one
[09:46] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: did you know their was an Ubuntu in a Nutshell bounty?
[09:46] <hornbeck> yes
[09:46] <hornbeck> I was thinking this may quilify for it :-)
[09:46] <rcaskey_> I'm gaim if you are
[09:46] <hornbeck> but I don't know what they are looking for
[09:46] <rcaskey_> how much is the cash?
[09:47] <hornbeck> don't know
[09:47] <hornbeck> we can ask in -devel
[09:47] <rcaskey_> I'm trying to log into the wiki to look about but it is slooo
[10:04] <plovs> hornbeck, http://news.com.com/Sun+to+set+Solaris+free%2C+after+a+fashion/2100-1016_3-5450749.html
[10:04] <plovs> hornbeck, solaris prizes
[10:05] <plovs> hornbeck, 120$ - 360$ a year sure beats redhat
[10:06] <hornbeck> ok
[10:33] <sivang> hornbeck : have you asked on -devel regarding the nutshell bounty?
[10:35] <hornbeck> yeah, I did a second ago
[10:35] <sivang> hornbeck : anybody answered?
[10:35] <hornbeck> I have to get ahold of Jdub
[11:06] <littlegreenman> hi hornbeck, Diogo Heleno here (pt transl)
[11:06] <littlegreenman> hornbeck, got ur msg
[11:18] <hornbeck> cool
[11:22] <hornbeck> how you doing
[11:23] <littlegreenman> good... tired... working... getting cross eyed :D
[11:23] <littlegreenman> but loving my ubuntu
[11:23] <littlegreenman> :)
[11:24] <hornbeck> same here, I am waiting to go pick up my new router
[11:24] <hornbeck> hoping they call soon
[11:26] <littlegreenman> if it's like the washing machine delivery people... they never call... or they call but then it's not there.....
[11:33] <hornbeck> well my boss is meeting me at the store to purchase it and I am waiting for him to call
[11:40] <sivang> hornbeck : your boss is sponsering the server?
[11:46] <hornbeck> sivang: yes
[11:48] <sivang> hornbeck : for the svn?
[11:48] <sivang> nice
[11:49] <hornbeck> yeah, in return I am going to host a few pages for him
[11:50] <sivang> ah cool
[11:50] <hornbeck> I think so
[11:50] <hornbeck> he is a good guy
[11:50] <hornbeck> bought all the stuff to do backup's to
[11:50] <hornbeck> and a UPS, and now the router