sivangKamion : tested it a bit, the installer enters an endless loop - never snaps out , after it sasying it enters lowmem mode i.e. loading the lowmem packages.12:00
mdzKamion: it's only the installer and main packages files which are used during the first stage anyway, right?12:00
Mithrandirdoes qemu support serial interfaces?12:00
Kamionmdz: hm, except that bunzip2 probably isn't installed at that point12:00
KamionMithrandir: if you've got that sort of setup you wouldn't bother with emulation12:01
Kamionmdz: and restricted12:01
mdzthe uncompressed hoary/main packages file is only ~2M12:01
MithrandirKamion: saves a box, though.12:01
Kamionmdz: remember we're already winning over Debian mind12:01
Kamionsmaller Packages files12:01
mdzKamion: right, and main and restricted are decompressed separately12:01
=== Mithrandir goes to bed.
Kamionmdz: what did you think about my three Ship proposals for installer language support?12:23
Kamionjfbterm, unifont, console-terminus12:23
robertjKamion: I was wondering the other day, can you think of a good reason hostname shouldn't be autoset?12:29
mdzKamion: did I miss your proposal?  I lost some mail a few days ago12:31
mdzrobertj: yes...autoset to what?12:31
robertja random string?12:32
robertjthe ubuntu-macaddress12:32
robertjwould that cause the world to come to an end?12:33
infinityNo, but it's pretty irritating behaviour.12:33
infinityI cursed Microsoft when they started doing that in their installers.12:34
robertjinfinity: why?12:34
infinity"jkfdW2kk, now that's an intuitive hostname!"12:34
infinity"bobsmith1" might be nicer (based on username, or some other string entered in the installer) than the random gobleygoop.12:35
chrisaOr use dict -m on something from urandom12:36
chrisaThat's fun too12:36
sivangchrisa : yes :)12:36
robertjbut why do you need the hostname anyway? Chances are if they are going to register it with a dhcp server they will change the host nam12:36
robertjmost desktop users won't be running any services12:37
infinityIt's traditional for UNIX hosts to have a sane name, though.12:37
infinityAnd for people to have prompts like user@name:~$12:37
chrisaThere's something endearing about user@jkfdW2kk:~$12:38
robertjinfinity: anyone at the prompt can figure out how to change their hostname then12:38
infinityI suppose.  <shrug>... I'm not terribly emotional about it.12:38
infinityAs long as I always have the option to run my installers in ultra-verbose, ask-me-everything mode, I don't know that I personally care.12:39
infinityI still prefer the idea of basing the name on the "create a normal user" username, though.12:39
infinitySo, you'd get dave@dave01:~$12:39
infinityOr whatever.12:39
chrisaThat'll make the paranoid ex-ms droids happy12:40
infinity(Of course, that's horribly out of order, as far as the installer is concerned)12:40
chrisa"declined@declined: ~$"12:40
Kamionmdz: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001308.html (and subthread)12:40
Kamionmdz: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001309.html12:40
Kamionrobertj: there's an RFC about recommended practices for host naming ...12:41
Kamionrobertj: we attempt to set the hostname from DHCP or DNS, but if that's not possible I think getting a name from the user is appropriate12:41
robertjKamion: it's really irritating though. Home users don't know what a host name is (better docs could help with that) and business users likely don't know where a given machine will end up12:42
KamionI dunno, IME arguments that start "most desktop users" tend to fall flat ... we had a number of experiences like that pre-Warty :)12:42
mdzKamion: yeah, that was during my black{out,hole} period12:43
Kamionmdz: thought it might've been12:43
robertjwhat does IME stand for?12:43
infinityIn My Experience.12:43
elmoin my experience12:43
robertjKamio: ahh12:44
robertjis this what you were thinking of? http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2100.html12:44
Kamionwe did talk about it before Warty - one of the reasons we left it as it is, actually, is that changing the hostname after installation is such a royal pain12:44
Kamionthe hostname has a bad habit of getting hardcoded into configuration files all over the place, rightly or wrongly12:44
mdzkamion: is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=99339 a concern for us?12:45
Kamionrobertj: I think there's a rather more serious one somewhere12:45
=== sivang didn't know there were poems in RFs :)
Kamionsivang: look for "Jabberwocky"12:45
sivangKamion : it's by Louis Kroll, right?12:45
mdzKamion: how familiar are you with jfbterm?  some of that i18n console stuff is scary (random setuid binaries and such)12:45
Kamionsivang: parody thereof12:46
sivangKamion : ah, k12:46
pittiNight everybody!12:47
sivangnight pitti12:47
Kamionmdz: jfbterm seems to work for me on powerpc12:47
robertjKamion: if XP gives random host names, then the world probably won't come to an end if Ubuntu does as well.12:48
Kamionmdz: hm, yeah, it has a setuid root binary, that's annoying12:48
Kamionrobertj: XP does lots of things that we're trying to fix :-)12:48
robertjKamion: hostnames dont fix much12:48
Kamionlike I say, we did debate this before Warty12:48
Kamionjfbterm would need a full audit, it seems12:49
Kamionit has privilege-dropping code, and drops privileges as the first thing it does; but it's still a world-executable setuid-root program12:50
robertjIt just seems contrary to an otherwise "Just the facts" type of setup12:50
mdzKamion: what resources does it hold when it drops privileges?12:50
Kamionit's the first thing that main() does, so just its starting file descriptors I should think12:51
Kamionit does tty-switching by ioctl() on /dev/console and /dev/tty*, and a couple of things with /dev/tty* and /dev/fb*12:53
Kamionsome odd ioperm() stuff as well for vga16fb12:53
Kamionwe could defer that for now and just take the font stuff?12:55
mdzit certainly wouldn't need to be setuid if it dropped privileges as its first operation01:06
mdzioperm() requires root, though01:06
mdzI'll look at it01:06
mdzKamion: have you looked at them with an eye to the usual seed requirements?01:07
mdz(are they maintained, etc.)01:07
mdzI have no problems with unifont; seems dead simple01:07
mdzoh, they really are just fonts01:07
Kamionthere's #21872001:08
Kamiondunno if it matters though01:08
mdzunifont and console-terminus are both fine with me01:09
KamionI can't say I can claim unifont is maintained, but as you say it's just a font01:09
mdzwe'll defer jfbterm for now, as you proposed01:09
Kamionall right, thanks01:09
mdzit would be a good idea to send something to the new security-review list about jfbterm01:10
Kamionjfbterm may be less of a concern now that we're doing UTF-8 throughout01:10
KamionI don't yet have a good feel for how good the Linux console's support for UTF-8 actually is in practice01:11
sivangKamion : for my belingual needs, it's pretty fine, although console RTL input can be sometimes tricky.01:14
tsenghas anyone tested ubuntu on intel emt64 chips?01:17
tsengi understand that its basically an amd compatible x86_64, but not quite.01:18
elmoI think it is enough that ubuntu should work01:19
elmowe provide a kernel for it and there's no userspace incompatabilities01:19
elmobut no, I don't know of anyone who's tested it01:20
mdzmjg59: around?01:25
=== pasc_ is now known as pasc
KamionI believe the amd64-generic kernel should work too (just as well, since that's all that's on the CD)01:29
elmoright, sorry I more meant that our kernel was aware of EM64T01:30
elmoas in, at the source level01:30
Kamionah, right01:30
mjg59mdz: Pong?01:42
mdzmjg59: how do the reports from your kernel look?  what changes do you have that we'll need to merge into the default kernel?01:52
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mjg59mdz: For the most part, pretty good01:57
mjg59mdz: Suspend to disk is still failing for some people for reasons I haven't tracked down01:57
mjg59But other than that, the success rate for suspend to disk is almost perfect, and suspend to RAM is working better than I expected01:57
=== Kamion gets his bug list back down to 100 bugs
Kamionguess that's time to hit the sack; night all01:57
mdzmjg59: which swsusp are you using?01:58
mdzKamion: night01:58
mjg59mdz: Kernel stock01:58
mdzmjg59: I thought that one didn't work with modular storage device drivers01:58
mjg59mdz: I added some fairly trivial code so that echo -n resume >/sys/power/state triggers another resume01:58
mjg59And then added code to do that at the end of the initrd01:58
mdzah, I see01:59
mdzso we just need 2.6.901:59
mjg592.6.10 would probably be better, but yeah01:59
mjg59I've got a patch tree here, so I can show you what I added to the tree fairly easily01:59
mjg59Mm. Yeah. 4 patches - at least one is in current Linus tree, one is the dodgy dsdt-initrd hack, one is theoretically needed but I haven't found a case that doesn't work without it and one is the swsusp stuff02:01
mdzhow does Linus feel about the dsdt-initrd thing?02:04
mjg59I doubt he's keen. The linux-acpi people certainly aren't.02:05
lifelessmjg59: does your stuff work for all laptops, or just one model ? And if just one model, how do I convince you to teach me how to fix my laptop(s) ?02:06
mjg59On the other hand, jdub needs it in order to get battery information02:06
mjg59lifeless: In theory, all02:06
mjg59What's the problem?02:06
lifelessmy hoverbook - you remember it right? - will go into battery sleep mode, but nothing brings it alive except for holding the powe down for 5-7 seconds.02:07
lifelessand every time I've tried suspend to disk, it loops and never gets into sleep.02:07
lifelessI'd /kill/ for battery sleep mode to work well.02:07
danielslifeless: you don't have to kill!02:07
lifelessdaniels: do too.02:07
mjg59lifeless: Ok, we have the first issue on multiple machines.02:07
danielslifeless: an X40 is only a few clicks away02:08
lifelessdaniels: you offering me yours ?02:08
danielsbut surely it's easier than murder02:08
lifelesswell, then, TEASE.02:08
lifelessyou are a sleep teaser02:08
mjg59lifeless: I suspect the complete failure to wake is the same as the NC4010's failure to wake and the craptop's spontaneous reboot02:08
lifelesscraptop ?02:08
mjg59lifeless: On the other hand, it's also worth checking /proc/acpi/wakeup02:08
mjg59The VIA piece of shit we had in Oxford02:08
danielslifeless: via aberration02:09
lifelesscat /proc/acpi/wakeup 02:09
lifelessDevice  Sleep state     Status02:09
lifeless LID       3            *enabled02:09
lifelessSLPB       3            *enabled02:09
lifelessPWRB       5            *enabled02:09
lifelessCRD0       3            disabled02:09
lifelessLANC       3            disabled02:09
mjg59Heh. Ok, that's not it.02:09
lifelessAC97       3            disabled02:09
lifelessthats what it claims :0.02:09
mjg59Yeah, probably the same problem, then. The Intel guys know about it, I'm trying to track it down.02:09
mjg59Suspend to disk is more interesting02:09
lifelesscan I help other than by throwing peanuts and shouting encouragement.02:10
mjg59lifeless: Oh, if you could check suspend to RAM after init=/bin/bash, that would be good02:10
mjg59Just mount proc and echo -n 3 >/proc/acpi/sleep02:10
mjg59I'd expect it to fail in the same way, but it'd be nice to confirm it02:10
mjg59Suspend to disk shouldn't fail in the way it's failing, as far as I can tell02:10
mjg59But it seems unwilling to give large amounts of debug information02:10
mjg59So I'll probably need to throw a pile of printks in a kernel and get you to test it02:11
lifelessok, I'll do so later - I'm high latency on debugging these things, generally each reboot. (Too busy working to fiddle much ...)02:11
mjg59Once we've got this solved, it ought to work anyway02:11
lifelessI'm happy to run a custom kernel for you.02:11
lifelessDo I need to start with a special kernel? Currently I've just warty's P4 kernel.02:11
mjg59Were you testing my stuff with my kernel?02:11
mjg59Suspend to disk won't work without my kernel and my initrd02:13
mjg59Uh, initrd-tools02:13
lifelessapt-line ?02:17
mjg59http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/ ./02:17
mjg59You need the initrd-tools *first*02:17
lifelessheh, or it'll fail to install the kernel :|02:18
jdubmjg59: yay, aptable02:18
danielsjdub: morning02:19
jdubyo yo02:19
mjg59jdub: Dude, it has been for ages02:19
jdubooh, qemu update works02:20
lamont_rhrmpf.  usb camera plugged in, shows up in lsusb, why did nothing automount?  and how do I cause it to mount?02:21
lifelesslamont_r: did usbstorage find it ?02:21
lamont_rusb 1-2: new full speed USB device using address 302:21
lamont_rNov 15 18:13:42 localhost usb.agent[3081] :      libgphoto2: loaded successfully02:22
mjg59Looks like the mass storage driver didn't bind to it02:22
lamont_rnow I really wonder...02:22
lifelessthat sounds like a no. So, its not a mountable device.02:22
lamont_rwhich would mean?02:22
lifelessthus the lack of automount love :).02:22
mjg59lamont_r: It's not a mass storage device, so it needs an application that knows how to speak to it02:22
mjg59gphoto ought to manage02:22
lifelessyou need to use gphoto to pull stuff off it02:22
=== lifeless high fives mjg59
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lamont_rgphoto invocation?02:23
lifelessmjg59: do I need to reboot post initrd-tools install before kernel install ? I presume not ... but checking is good.02:23
mjg59lifeless: Nope02:24
lifelessmjg59: whats the kernel image I should look for ?02:24
=== lamont_r wonders what program to run to get to libgphoto and friends...
jdubmako: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/i18n/iiimf-faq.html02:24
lifelessmjg59: you could probably use a pre-depends to force the initrd ordering.02:25
lifeless2.6.9-1-386 coming in.02:25
mjg59lifeless: Yeah, but that'd require me rebuilding the damn kernel images again02:26
lifelesswell, /next build/ then :)02:27
lupus_is there already a guide for qemu?02:27
makojdub: Yet Another Input Method To End All Input Methods.. i'm losing track :)02:29
danielsmako: oh, this week's ultimate input method02:29
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mjg59Just use Dasher02:30
danielsmjg59: this is cjk02:31
danielsmjg59: by 'ultimate input method for every language, not just the crap ones from the english fascists' read 'doesn't work for anything other than cjk, will abuse anyone attempting to make it work for non-cjk'02:31
daniels(including 8859-1)02:32
makodaniels: i've heard of people using dasher for chinese input02:37
danielsoh wow02:38
danielsconsider myself corrected02:38
makodaniels: it must be a little disorienting02:38
makobut yeah02:38
jdubmako: ii* seems to be the input method du jour02:39
makoso many IMs are the Smart Common, or Unified, or eXtended, or Smart Extended or Integrated02:39
makoand the great part is that all now seem to be providing interfaces to EACH OTHER02:39
makoi'm getting some ideas IM wise for hoary though :)02:40
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makosome pretty non-invasive changes we can make that will do good good things02:40
makognome has the infrastructure there already02:41
makomore than six months ago, i used to do non-latin input in emacs exclusively.. now i will load up gedit even if it's just to paste it elewhere.. things are getting better quickly even if they aren't getting more organized :)02:42
chrisamako: I call lies, korean input for instance is still a pita (imo at least)02:43
jdubthe gnome-kr dudes have some cool stuff for that02:43
chrisajdub: oh?02:43
jdubyou'll have to find an interdimensional wormhole02:44
makochrisa: i'll admit, i haven't tried korean :)02:45
makothere are *two* amharic input methods02:45
makowell, that's impressive to me :)02:46
chrisaWhen I went to try asian input I was overwhelmed by the bazillion IMs and even moreso by the fact that they have interfaces for each other02:46
makochrisa: yeah, but it's sort of necessary02:46
makofor japanese at least, every one of those has a population that love it and won't use anything else :)02:46
mjg59But we know better02:47
chrisaIt would be infinitely cool if gnome just had an abstraction that could handle korean/whatever02:48
jdubchrisa: http://gnome.or.kr/wiki/GnomeKoreaProjects02:48
makojapanese kids may have had nintendo games 6 months before us but they are paying for their high-techedness by having to deal with 4 widely incompatible encoding schemes and supporting a dozen input methods :)02:48
makochrisa: everyone agrees on that one02:48
makochrisa: every one also agrees that their system is the correct umbrella under which to unify02:49
chrisajdub: thanks for the link02:49
=== jdub loves the korean dictionary program -> 'gdick'
lamont_rwhat does 302 mean from apache?02:49
danielsjdub: now all you need is for someone to adopt it02:50
danielsjdub: they can be the gdickfoster02:50
lamont_ryeah - figured that out... grumble02:50
makolamont_r: glad to hear the cds went over well :)02:51
lamont_rmako: yeah - went over pretty well02:51
lamont_rbdale took some back to colorado with him, will be handing one to each of Martin Fink's staff on tuesday02:52
makolamont_r: nobody riled by the "peanut smuggling"? :)02:52
makowednesday i should be able to drop off a whole bunch at the NYLUG meeting02:53
lamont_rpeanut smuggling???02:53
=== jdub will hopefully have CDs before SLUG at the end of the month
makolamont_r: it was a comment kinnison made02:53
makojdub: you don't have them already?02:53
jdubi ordered about 200 for slug with my address02:54
lamont_rmako: didn't see kinnison's comment02:54
makolamont_r: i'm assuming it a was reference to nipples :)02:54
lamont_rno complaints from that crowd at all.02:54
sivangmako : peanut smuggling ? :) 02:55
makoevidently, it's a pretty common term02:55
mako(among some circles)02:55
lifelessnuts ?02:55
lamont_rwell..  gotta go take a break from typing for a bit... bbl.02:55
makojdub: so it looks like i will be making it down this conference in veracruz to talk up ubuntu02:55
jdubmako: oooh, nice!02:56
makojdub: there's a day devoted to nothing but randall schwartz, maddog, rms, and me talking about ubuntu02:56
mjg59mako: You're an open source celebrity02:57
mjg59Make sure you tell rms that02:57
jdubi hope the "me talking about ubuntu" is in virtual parentheses :)02:57
makojdub: seriously, a clerical error02:57
makojdub: equal billing even02:57
jdubdude, how many cds do you have? :)02:58
makojdub: ~40002:58
makoit won't last02:58
mjg59You're obviously almost as famous as tbm02:58
makomjg59: at LSM 1.5 years ago, someone came up to tbm and i asked for my autograph02:58
makomjg59: tbm was like "do you know what he is?", they say 'yes', then "do you know what i am?" :)02:59
makomjg59: he was riled02:59
mjg59Something like that happened as FISL02:59
makomjg59: good :)02:59
mjg59We were having lunch and some leading south american open source guy came up03:00
mjg59Martin started introducing himself, then he looked at martin's nametag and said that he'd got the wrong person03:00
mjg59Then started talking to me...03:00
lifelessheh. you da man.03:01
makohe really doesn't like that :)03:01
=== daniels giggles.
makojdub: yeah, i've been talking the gulev organizer about ubuntu back and forth for a couple months now.. it's paid off i guess :)03:02
makojdub: of course, the fact that he really likes our work doesn't hurt :)03:02
jdubthe only thing that really shits me about reading CJK screenshots and pages is that ASSTASTICALLY ugly serif they're used to, it drives me up the wall03:05
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dafjdub: you mean latin text on CJK pages having ugly serifs03:08
dafjdub: ?03:08
dafmmm, that sucks03:08
jdubthere's like this classically CJK ugly ass filler font03:08
dafyou can avoid it, though03:08
dafit's as simple as using the lang attribute correctly03:09
dafmost people just say the whole page is in Japanese, and then you get the ugly filler font03:09
jdubthey just shouldn't put filler characters in03:10
jdubit offends my eyes03:10
jdubfell into mjg59 mode for a minute there03:10
dafI wonder if everybody in Asia thinks Western Latin fonts are ugly03:12
jdub"look at those sans serifs! how do they read them? each letter is like a typographical non sequitur! it's criminal!"03:16
dafI bet that's just how it is03:17
jdubWhen doing diversions, does the 'divertor' package have to depend on the 'divertee' package?03:53
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fabbionemorning guys04:58
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fubarpahello :)05:08
=== fubarpa is new around here
mojo_fubara: what field are u working on?05:09
fubarpaI'm actually trying to figure out where I'd fit in.  I want to help :)05:10
mojo_fubara: are u good a C++?05:10
fubarpaheh, that's one language I'm not well-versed in05:11
mojo_fubara: we need more testers05:12
mojo_fubara: please report all bugs related to GNOME to us05:12
fubarpaWell, I just upgraded to the development version05:12
fubarpabut, I'm using KDE as my main desktop right now05:12
mojo_fubara: then it's bit hard, b/c we don't support KDE, we already made up our mind, GNOME is the only desktop on Ubuntu05:13
mojo_fubara: we don't want to create a distro that mixed up 2 wm05:13
mojo_fubara: initially, I used KDE but then KDE 's getting heavier and messier, so I use GNOME for its simplicity, slim and pro GUI05:14
danielsguys. kde vs gnome. offtopic here. somewhere else.05:15
fubarpano prob.  I can test Gnome out too :)05:15
fubarpaNot tryin to start a desktop war...  just wanna be helpful :)05:15
mojo_fubara: cool, 05:15
mojo_fubara: I think u should play around with GNOME applet, try to test it with all possible cases05:16
mojo_fubara: and report all the bugs to us, make sure u update to latest GNOME 2.9.1 provided by our respository05:16
fubarpaI just ran dist-update against hoary repositories...  I should be ok, I think unless it just updated again05:18
mojo_daniels: are we allowed to include restricted-kernel and nvidia driver along?05:20
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fubarpaany laptop team members around? :)05:41
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fabbionemdz: i wonder how ubuntu-meta will behave on new archs...06:25
fabbionehey Manoj 06:25
fabbioneManoj: decided to join the dark side?06:25
Manojjust checking out the competition06:26
mdzfabbione: all that is necessary is to update the control file and the 'update' script06:26
mdzManoj: that's not a word we like to use, in relation to Debian at least ;-)06:26
fabbioneManoj: there is no competition06:27
Manojheck, we seem to be losing users (as seen on p.d.o) to ubuntu all the time ;-)06:27
fabbionewhere do you see it on p.d.o?06:28
ManojTollef Fog Heen today06:30
Manojand debianplant had a whole slew06:30
fabbioneyou mean planet.d.n ?06:30
fabbionep.d.o can also be people.d.o.. you know :P06:31
mdzor packages06:34
fabbioneor pr0n.debian.org :P06:34
fabbionei am impressed06:38
fabbioneFiles: 06:38
fabbione fbfa4592b55df290560f15a8557ede60 2050 base optional ubuntu-base_0.7_sparc.deb06:38
fabbione eab4727f301eb5f122aea34ec044484b 2056 base optional ubuntu-desktop_0.7_sparc.deb06:38
fabbionei wonder what's in there :)06:38
fabbioneCan't open base-sparc: No such file or directory.06:38
fabbioneCan't open desktop-sparc: No such file or directory.06:38
fabbionetouch build-stamp06:38
fabbionethis should fail06:38
fabbionelamont_r: just for curiosity.. how do you handle dep-wait in phase1?06:48
fabbionei got a bunch of packages in that state because they clearly build-dep on stuff that we have in ubuntu only06:48
lamont_rfabbione: poorly06:48
fabbioneshould i wait phase1 to complete, create a phase 1.5 to build this packages and than run phase2?06:49
fabbioneor should i just build them in phase2?06:49
fabbionei mean.. this is almost just a test run, considering that if the port becomes official, all this work needs to be redone at the dc06:50
lamont_rfabbione: it's really a matter of iteration over things until you can use debs that you built to build everything...06:50
lamont_rright - if it becomes official, we start with your debs, build twice,and upload the second results.06:50
lamont_rwhat I did with ia64, for example:06:51
lamont_rstage 0 == debian sid (at the time)06:51
lamont_rstage 1 = build with debs pointed at stage 006:51
fabbioneyes.. i got that06:52
fabbionei am at your stage0 now..06:52
fabbionebuilding ubuntu packages using debian sid of this days06:52
lamont_rduring stage1, I have preferences taht make stage1 pin 1500, stage 0 at 5006:53
fabbione(considering i am not building warty)06:53
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lamont_rscratch that06:54
fabbionei didn't think about pinning.. good point06:54
lamont_rstage 0 (debian) gets used to build stage1 as best we can. Things that don't build are sad.06:54
lamont_rstage1 then gets used to iterate over itself for a bit06:54
lamont_rthat is, the stage 0 debs are removed from the cache, and stage0 is removed from sources.list, and replaced with stage106:55
lamont_rthen you build for a bit.06:55
fabbioneyup.. i got all of that06:55
lamont_rthe actual goal is "anything that is a build-dep or a dep of a build-dep in main"06:55
fabbionebasically i keep reiterating until sid is out of the way06:55
fabbioneand i can build everything from stageX06:55
lamont_rthen once you run out of that, then you use stage1 debs and build everythign one more time06:56
lamont_rproducing golden stage206:56
lamont_rif any cheating was needed to get .debs into existance, then you need to have stage N+106:56
fabbioneuntil now.. no cheating06:56
lamont_rreally?  how did you build cyrus-sasl2?06:57
fabbionei got the process clear in my mind06:57
lamont_r(which happens to be ftbfs right now...)06:57
fabbioneit just builded fine06:57
lamont_rmaybe they fixed the dependencies then06:57
lamont_rthat'd rock06:57
fabbioneLog for successful build of cyrus-sasl2_2.1.19-1.5 (dist=hoary)06:57
lamont_r  postgresql-dev: Depends: libkrb5-dev but it is not going to be installed06:58
lamont_rmust have old Depends then.. :-)06:58
fabbionei still didn't build postgre06:58
lamont_r(build-deps on something that Depends on a pkg that conflicts with libkrb5-dev...06:58
fabbionei am at about 50% of the archive06:58
fabbionei have 6 real FTBFS06:59
fabbioneand 10 dep-wait ubuntu for ubuntu06:59
lamont_r50% of main, I assume?06:59
fabbionei am not building universe06:59
fabbionei simply don't have the processing power06:59
fabbionelamont_r: talking about universe instead.. given that we don't support it...07:02
fabbioneone or two build run on top of a real ubuntu main should be sufficient.. i guess07:02
fabbionewe can be a bit more "dirty" in it...07:02
fabbionei don't mind reiterating main 20 times if needed07:03
fabbionebut universe is just too big for one sparc only07:03
lamont_ryeah - properly speaking, one should really handle dep-waits while doing the iteration - I just retried everything instead. :-)07:05
fabbionei can't efford that much processing power07:07
fabbionesparc isn't the fastest processor in the world07:08
lamont_rthen again, ia64 isn't that slow...07:08
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fabbioneand i don't have access to an E10k anymore07:08
fabbioneotherwise spawning 28 istances of buildd would have made my life so much easier :P07:08
fabbione28 to 32...07:08
lamont_reither one is a bunch:-)07:11
fabbioneoh yeah07:11
=== lamont_r just spent a little bit trying to figure out why there were 108 packages 'Building' on ia64...
fabbionetoo bad that it needs 5 x 220 tri-phase power cable for approx 4.5KW07:12
lamont_rthen I remembered that I have buildd taking 30 at a time...07:12
lamont_r18 dangling packages is understandable/semi-OK.07:12
lamont_rthat's only 20Amps.. :-)07:12
fabbionei am using the default config of taking 10 at a time07:12
lamont_rand 1MWh every 3 days. :-)07:13
fabbionei still remember when i turned it on07:13
lamont_rit's more a function of how much you smack the wanna-build machine... With 12 buildd's, and my logs scripts, etc...  it's pretty common that we collide.07:13
fabbioneour UPS registered a 50% usage more :-)07:14
lamont_rso fewer trips is better.07:14
fabbionegoing down from 40 minutes to 20 minutes autonomy07:14
fabbionedoesn't wanna-build handle collisions?07:14
lamont_rfabbione: I also taught the buildd to understand $max_build_percent (only take this percent - default == 100) of the needs-build package at once.07:14
lamont_ryeah - it blocks the process trying to get to the db until the other one is done.07:15
lamont_rwhich sucks07:15
fabbionehmmm i am not sure i understand07:15
lamont_rso grabbing more means I block less often, esp since most of the block potential is the ssh setup time...07:15
fabbioneif you tell to buildd1 to take 10 pkgs07:15
lamont_r'Database is locked by buildd, please wait'.07:15
fabbionebuildd2 can take the next 1007:16
lamont_rtaht takes a while to finish. Time where I'm not doing anything but waiting.07:16
lamont_rso less of them is better.07:16
fabbionewell increasing the granularity to one?07:16
fabbionegrabbing one package at a time?07:16
lamont_rwhen there are only 3 packages in Needs-Build, I'd like them to go one at a time, rather than having one machine grab foo, xorg, and baz07:16
lamont_rbut when there are 3000 needs-build packages, I want to snarf lots of them at a time07:17
fabbionewhy do you like to make this difference?07:17
fabbioneif you have resources just use them...07:17
fabbioneand parallelize..07:17
lamont_rthe bulk of the wanna-build --take time is spent setting up - actually marking them taken doesn't take very log at all, once you get everything ready and grab the lock...07:17
lamont_rtaking 1 package at a time when there are 3000 means we spend a large chunk of the package build time (for most packages) in doing the --take07:18
fabbioneso basically you save that few seconds accessing wb db and that's it07:19
lamont_rtaking 10 packages at a time when there are only 3 to build means that one buildd grabs them all, and the other 2 sit idle.07:19
fabbioneyes i understand that07:19
lamont_rfew seconds per package, times 3000 packages.07:19
lamont_rand it screws up the semi-timed stats dumping... which isn't nice.. :-)07:20
lamont_rthat is, the dump starts in time to usually be done before the rsync happens.07:20
lamont_rit goes in a different directory and gets snapped over at once, so it's not terrible, but it's still nice to have that finish before its next iteration starts... :-)07:21
fabbionenow you lost me...07:23
fabbionebut i guess i am not affected by this problem yet :)07:23
infinitylamont_r : Can you beg elmo/neuro for commit access to Debian's wanna-build CVS?07:27
lamont_rinfinity: why?07:27
infinitylamont_r : That take more/less depending on queue length feature is something we want in m68k, for obvious reasons (and, in fact, some of us run a patched buildd that does that already)07:28
lamont_rthe changes that make any sense for Debian are getting pushed back07:28
infinitym68k feels the "one buildd took too many packages at once" thing much worse.07:28
lamont_rah, I'll work some more on making that one happen then07:28
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=== lamont_r is happy to work it through as a discussion between neuro/elmo/me, and let one of them commit.
infinityI wish neuro was a bit less protective of w-b's source, but whatever.07:30
infinityWe have a few patches that float around the m68k buildds that he refuses to implement, so we keep re-patching on every release.07:30
lamont_rsigh.  I go out of town for a weekend, and wind up with 62 build logs in main that I need to do something with tomorrow...07:30
infinity(Simple things, like the build/current symlink)07:30
lamont_rhopefully most of them are fixed already. :-)07:30
lamont_rbuild/current symlink?07:30
infinityYeah.  Many of the m68k buildds run a buildd that marks the current building log with a symlink in build/07:31
infinityMakes more sense than buildd-vlog07:31
=== lamont_r just uses buildd-vlog
infinityMuch faster to tail build/current07:31
infinity(Every CPU cycle counts on slow arches, what can I say?)07:32
lamont_rhow painful is d-i on m68k, anyway?07:32
infinitysmarenka's buildd also checks for a EXIT-AFTER-BUILD (or sometihng like that) stamp too, so he can just touch that and go away, knowing the buildd will kill itself when the current build is done.07:33
fabbionelamont_r: less than you think probably07:33
infinityThat's kinda handy for chroot maintenance.07:33
infinityd-i on m68k is decent, except on lowmem machines.07:33
infinityBut lowmem sucks in general.07:33
lamont_rtouch ~buildd/EXIT-DAEMON-PLEASE07:34
infinityyeah, that.07:34
infinityHas that made it upstream?07:34
lamont_rsome time ago07:34
infinityAhh.  He must have kept pushing. :)07:34
lamont_rif you have a set of diff's you want to toss me, I could certainly look at which ones I'd be willing to care about and push on...07:35
infinityI'll talk to Stephen and see if he has anything pending (other than build/current, which we've been told won't go in..)07:35
=== lamont_r decides that it's proably bed time here.
infinityI suppose I should finally update a4000t to mainline (and re-patch for build/current)07:36
lamont_rnight all07:36
fabbionenithg lamont07:36
lamont_rpitti around?07:38
lamont_rnm.  sleep07:38
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=== sid77 ciao
fabbioneguys.. what did you do to gdm?09:04
fabbionein multihead now, it scales to fit the screen09:05
fabbionethat it is really unconfortable with 2 heads09:05
fabbionesince the username and password are exactly in the middle (across the 2 screens)09:05
pascnow I know why there's gdm themes with the username/password box off to one side09:11
jdubmako: 09:24
jdubI read in Ubuntu traffic #11 that you wanted to make sure Hoary includes09:24
jdubthe Indic fonts Red Hat recently released.  I just wanted to let you know09:24
jdubthey will be included in the next version of Debians ttf-indic-fonts09:24
jdubpackage which I will be uploading shortly.09:24
jdub(that was Jaldhar H. Vyas)09:24
jdubWhen doing diversions, does the 'divertor' package have to depend on the 'divertee' package?09:26
Mithrandirjdub: did you see my prod about libuser's cvs repo the other day?09:28
jdubMithrandir: nup09:29
Mithrandirit has a CVS repo, documented in the README file or something.  We might want to work off that rather than fooling around with SRPMS.09:30
Mithrandirthey might have an arch mirror too; worth asking at least.09:31
fabbioneXdmx is sooooo rad!09:34
fabbioneMithrandir: should we give a shot to the new nvidia drivers?09:36
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Mithrandirfabbione: I'm totally overworked until friday in about 1.5 weeks -- term project (3/4 of my workload this semester) to be handed in, so I can't do much.09:37
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pittiMorning all!10:19
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pittiMorning seb128_10:24
pittihaggai: Thanks for your explanation and patch wrt OO.o :-)10:24
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Kamionjdub: divertor/divertee> no, dpkg-divert just records the diversion if the divertee isn't installed, and it'll still process the diversion properly if the divertee is installed later11:03
Kamionjdub: think of a diversion as an instruction to dpkg to apply a mapping to its filesystem namespace11:03
Kamion(although using the --rename option means it has some effects on the current filesystem too, of course)11:04
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fabbioneseb128: hey11:09
fabbioneseb128: i think the last version of gdm is bong11:09
seb128"bong" ?11:09
fabbioneif you have a dualhead setup running xinerama11:09
fabbionebong = on crack11:09
pascseb128: it's jdubian11:09
seb128yeah, I know, but I need details :)11:09
fabbioneseb128: before it was showing the login/background on one screen11:10
fabbioneseb128: now it expands to both of them11:10
=== pasc waits for mako to blog about jdubian, the language of the ubuntish
fabbioneleaving the login/password prompt right in between the 2 screens11:10
fabbioneseb128: if you want i can show you a pic11:10
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seb128no, I picture the problem without any problem :)11:10
=== seb128 seachs on bugzilla.g.o
azeem"being bong" can either be good or bad, depending on the context, right?11:11
fabbioneafaik it's only bad11:11
seb128I should get a dualhead setup, it could be useful for some bugs11:11
pascit's also an exclamation11:11
fabbionebut that's some kind of aussie dialect from Melbroune11:11
fabbionemelbourne even11:11
pascfabbione: it's only jdub, and those who hang around him11:12
=== fabbione rm bong from dict
azeemthere was a german guy who used 'tutti' as synonym for 'cool' when I was living in Bordeaux. By the time we left, all the spanish and english people thought it was a regular german word and used it as well11:12
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danielsfabbione: eh, jdub is from Sydney11:26
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jdub   * Add udev-udeb, for use in the installer.11:49
jdubKamion: ^ BLING-BLING-BLING!11:49
Kamionhotplug-udeb and rootskel still to come before it stands a chance of working11:51
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Kamionoh, and busybox-cvs11:54
infinitypasc "What's a jdubian?"11:56
seb128infinity: jdub-ian11:57
infinityseb128 : I know.11:57
seb128so what's the question ?11:57
infinityseb128 : It was a reference.11:57
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infinityTry pronouncing it "jdoobian"11:57
infinityThen think of Chasing Amy.11:57
infinityAnd it all comes together.11:58
azeemnot for me, but oh well11:58
infinityOh well indeed. :)11:58
=== daniels high-fives infinity.
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Mitarioo everyone12:08
seb128hi Mitario 12:10
Kamionlamont_r: ooh, we have ia64 binaries?12:11
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fabbioneKamion: zlib1g_1.2.2-3ubuntu1_sparc.deb12:26
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fabbionethey are on the way too :P12:26
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lupus_hello I was thinking of creating a wiki for qemu12:35
lupus_since it is a vmware alternatife12:35
lupus_and makes it possible to run wine onn ppc12:36
lupus_but what would be a good wiki name for this?12:36
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lupus_HowtoVM or HowtoQemu?12:37
lupus_or HowtoFreeVM12:37
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haggaipitti: no probs, sorry you wasted some time on that patch12:41
pittihaggai: no reason to excuse, it was my own fault :-)12:41
pittihaggai: however, it's nice that the solution is so easy12:41
pittihaggai: the mozilla stuff is much more complicated, there are source packages for each and every language12:42
tuo2night, all12:42
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pittihaggai: I already talked a bit with _rene_, he seemed open to adopt the idea for Debian's OO.o, too12:42
pittihaggai: what do you think about that?12:42
pittihaggai: a similar concept would be nice for Debian, too12:43
haggaipitti: the idea for the additional Depends?  Yes, I'm fine with that - I think it is a very good idea12:43
pittihaggai: well, the language pack support in General12:44
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haggaipitti: for all packages in Debian?  The idea is nice, but it maybe doesn't scale easily for the whole of Debian, since there are many more packages and the lanugage packs could get large.  Maybe they could be done by section/priority12:56
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jdubazeem: trying out your multisync debs with my t630 + evolution...12:58
danielsjdub: how's bluetooth on your 630?12:59
danielsmy k700i has a nasty habit of hard locking12:59
sjoerdmy t630 works mostly fine with bluetooth01:01
sjoerdmodulo some problems if hidd is on in a certain mode01:01
danielswhat sort of mode?01:02
danielscan it be solved by just killing hidd?01:02
sjoerdthe bluetooth connection fails in that case, no lockups01:02
sjoerdthat solves it.. you can also run hidd with an option, but i always forget it01:02
jdubdaniels: seems ok so far, haven't used it a heck of a lot01:03
Astharotanyone can help me with postfix ???01:03
danielsjdub: bong01:04
danielssjoerd: ah01:04
danielswhen sending a file, hangs01:05
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danielsNov 16 13:06:25 catsby hcid[25818] : link_key_request (sba=00:20:E0:77:CD:7C, dba=00:0E:07:0E:C9:80) 01:05
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tuo2onal antham01:06
pittihaggai: something like the "German language" task that existed once01:06
sjoerddaniels: that's a normal message01:07
danielssjoerd: yes, but my phone hanging at that point is abnormal :)01:07
sjoerdtrue :)01:07
danielsat the exact point that gets printed to the log, my phone hangs, and I have to take the battery out and put it back in01:07
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seb128_grrrrrrrrr, dsl hangup ... did you get what I was saying ?01:09
seb128_anybody replied01:10
danielsbizzare, works now01:11
danielsmy bluetooth01:11
Kamionelmo: preemptively added hotplug-udeb and udev-udeb to the installer seed for you01:12
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elmoKamion: cheers01:14
Kamionwhen does Keybuk's merge-o-matic run?01:17
Kamionin fact it looks like the merge-o-matic has just totally forgotten about rootskel01:19
elmoodd - it's definitely in the list of "to be merged" I feed his m erge-o-matic01:21
Mitariomvo_, here? :)01:21
mvo_hi Mitario 01:21
Mitariomvo_, any word? :)01:23
=== Mitario is boring is ass of
haggaipitti: it still exists01:23
mvo_Mitario: sorry, not yet01:23
Kamioncjwatson@rookery:~$ ls ~scott/public_html/ongoing-merge/rootskel01:24
KamionSegmentation fault01:24
KamionI love exec-shield01:24
Mitariomvo_, ok, np01:24
elmomeh, that'll go away in the next couple of days01:25
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jdubmjg59: the kernel update on your archive - with new stuff, or just rebuilt?01:28
Kamionok, well, rootskel merged manually01:30
mjg59jdub: Mm?01:30
mjg59jdub: I think it's just the one you've got01:30
jdubdid you sort out the patch loss?01:31
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Mitariomdz, here?01:35
pittiMitario: he is on vacation until next Sunday01:35
Mitarioah, ok, thanks01:36
pittiMitario: that is, the following Sunday (Nov 21)01:36
Mitarioyeah ok01:36
Mitarioi'm wondering if update-manager or some metadata package could be uploaded to warty-security when hoary comes out01:37
Mitariosame way as the calendar is uploaded now01:37
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Mitariomvo__, hi :)01:37
jdubMitario: that wouldn't make it run on their desktop by default though01:37
Mitariojdub, true01:37
mvo__I'm getting new network today, looks like it' a bit unstable :)01:37
pittimvo__: oh, the number of underscores grows... :-)01:38
Mitarioor anyways maybe in the next distro release01:38
Mitariojdub, when the release after hoary comes out01:38
jduboh, release metadata?01:38
jdubthat's probably something we can do remotely01:38
Mitarioyeah, also tought about that01:39
jdubrather than update something on-disk01:39
Mitarioi wonder how we could do that01:39
Mitariojust put a file somewhere which updates everytime we release?01:39
jdubdid you see keybuk's "sources.list gui" thing?01:40
Mitariojdub, yep :) that one's in upgrade-manager already :)01:40
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Mitarioin my local source repository thatis01:40
Mitarionot yet in the package01:41
jdubMitario: we should look into gnome-app-install/upgrade-manager integration01:41
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jdubis there a recent hoary .deb i can try?01:41
jdubhey martink 01:41
Mitarioupdate-manager is in hoary yeah01:41
jduboh, update-manager01:41
martinkhey jdub01:41
Mitarioyeah, sorry, still configused with upgrade-notifier and update-manager :)01:41
mwh_Hi, I was wondering how to help with maintaining packages in ubuntu, what is the procedure, like I would like to have abiword to be up to date on the latest stable release01:42
Mitariomwh_, conincidence we where just talking about the update stuff, the wiki package http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PackageManagement can provide you some info01:42
mwh_ahh great01:43
mwh_is there something like gnome lov day ie ubuntu love day, where new developers/maintainers can learn and start contributing?01:44
jdubmwh_: there will be soon :)01:45
mwh_jdub: super01:45
Mitariohmm, cool :)01:45
mjg59jdub: Yeah, I managed to rebuild the tree01:45
Mitariogtg be back soon01:48
Kamionlamont_r: does Herbert know to sort out kernel packages for ia64?01:51
azeemjdub: sweet, let me know how it goes01:53
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mwh_when creating packages for ubuntu is it then custom to first create a debian package and then a ubuntu package or?02:01
Kamionit makes some things easier if you go about it that way02:01
mwh_please explain what is easier?02:03
mwh_im on ground zero you see02:03
Kamionwell, we merge with Debian regularly02:03
Kamionthe bigger the patch we accumulate against whatever Debian has, the more complicated merging becomes02:03
Kamionso it's in our own interests to feed as much back to Debian as possible02:04
mwh_so for example I would like to upgrade xchat to a newer version, what would you recomend that I do?02:05
mwh_maybe I should contact the maintainer first I guess02:05
mwh_I think I should find out how to get the source for the build as well to see how it works02:06
mwh_is there a guide somewhere on howto build debian packages og get into doing it02:06
mwh_my background is from lfs, so basically I just built stuff from src with the minimum changes02:07
azeemmwh_: do you want to update xchat for your own purposes or for the community in general?02:07
Kamionor possibly /devel/ actually02:07
Kamionread the new maintainer's guide02:07
mwh_for the community 02:07
Kamionmwh_: you're aware that there's a newer version in hoary?02:07
Kamion     xchat | 2.0.8-2ubuntu1 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc02:08
Kamion     xchat | 2.4.0-0.2ubuntu1 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, powerpc02:08
mwh_I can always just build the stuff from src for myself, but I think its a waste of time if others can use the stuff02:08
mwh_Kamion: no I didnt02:08
mwh_Kamion: anyways I would like to upgrade the stuff in warty, when I shift to hoary I would like to help there02:08
azeemmwh_: warty is not being upgraded02:09
azeemit's released02:09
mwh_azeem: oh, why?02:09
Kamionwe don't change stable releases02:09
Kamionthat's what "stable" means02:09
mwh_ok I need to look at it that way then ;)02:09
mwh_then its only security things which get pushed out for stable?02:10
mwh_I think its a bit sad that new features are not pushed out :( but I guess thats how it is02:13
azeemthey are pushed out every 6 months02:13
Kamionyou can't create a stable operating system if you keep changing it; it's just a project management impossibility02:15
mwh_yes, like what about if a translation is broken, its not security but its an error, are they pushed out as well on a stable release?02:15
Kamionvery severe bugs may be fixed in warty-updates02:15
Kamionbut with great care, and new upstream versions aren't the sort of thing that typically qualify02:15
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mwh_I think what I miss is something in beetween warty and hoary, like a version which tracks upstream stable versions02:20
jdubmwh_: that's hoary.02:20
mwh_realy, I thought hoary was tracking development versions, but its not?02:20
mwh_I should realy check out hoary some more I guess ;)02:21
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lifelessmjg59: ping02:22
mwh_jdub: I guess its there where I should apply my service then02:23
jdubmwh_: hoary is the development branch of *ubuntu*02:24
jdubmwh_: but the only in-development software we track in the distro's development branch is gnome02:24
jdub(in general)02:24
mwh_yes I know02:24
mwh_ahh yes02:24
mwh_thats what I mean, I would realy love a distro in between which only tracked upstream stable packages, ie gnome 2.8.[1,2,3,4]  ...02:25
mwh_and other software ofcourse02:25
azeemyou mean point releases02:25
jdubfor the most part, that's true for hoary02:25
jdubyou simply can't do that in a stable distribution release02:26
jdubyou can always use sid02:26
mwh_jdub: I see what you mean, anyways thats my point I would like to see something like, stable, stable-upstream and developement02:26
azeemmwh_: maintain your own branch02:27
Kamionwe've discussed it, but the merging effort means it isn't feasible until we have better infrastructure for merging02:27
jdubmwh_: stable-upstream == debian sid02:30
jdubfor the most part02:30
jdubstable-upstream + gnome platform/desktop development branch == ubuntu development branch02:30
jdubnot a huge difference02:31
jdubbut neither distro is "stable" (not talking about 02:31
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mwh_ok, btw what is the status on mono, will it be included at some point in ubuntu?02:34
jdubmwh_: it's in universe atm02:35
mwh_yes I noticed02:35
jdubmwh_: still undecided wrt mono in main02:35
azeemyou can't dodge it forever :)02:36
lifelessjust watch him :)02:37
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m0j0can someone here send me file libGl.so.1.2 in /usr/lib? (while I play around with libgtk, I just broke this file and too lazy to redownload all thing)02:52
=== Kamion tries once again to add substitution variables to germinate's seed syntax
elmoKamion: dude, could you maybe work out why it's so br0ken ATM instead?02:54
Kamionthe scary bit is that say kernel-image-${Kernel-Version} needs to be able to expand out into multiple packages in order to be useful for powerpc kernel udebs02:54
Kamionmm, I guess, it's been working fine for me02:54
Kamionwill look after lunch02:54
elmoI can give you my input files, if that helps02:55
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m0j0Kamion: can u PLS send me libGL.so.1.2?02:55
=== chrisa wonders how you 'break' a library
maswanchrisa: dd if=/dev/urandom of=/lib/libdb.so.3 seek=39921 count=7222 size=102:58
maswanchrisa: or do you have a better idea? :)02:58
chrisamaswan: Without it being intentional (since root is required), no02:59
maswanstratus: well, you won't exactly have a _broken_ library around then..02:59
chrisaIf you wanted to really break it you could replace some of the symbols with your own :D02:59
stratusmaswan, yes.02:59
stratusor use LD_PRELOAD to "break" the library without touch it too much.03:01
azeemis LUFS the same as FUSE?03:08
azeemapparently not03:09
haggaihow do I mark an Ubuntu bug as a duplicate of a Debian bug# ?  It's been incorrectly forwarded upstream (#1903)03:18
danielshaggai: put 'debXXXXXX' in the also known as field03:18
haggaidaniels: where do I find that?03:20
danielsshould be right at the top03:21
haggaiah, alias.  thanks03:21
danielsah, right03:21
haggaistill UPSTREAM status?03:22
haggaieven though it isn't OOo upstream, it's deb upstream03:22
azeemmiddlestream, you mean03:22
haggaiheh, yeah03:23
lupus_how can I find back a bugreport that I did03:28
lupus_but got closed03:29
lupus_I have to reopen it03:29
makois there a written offer for source in the CDs somewhere?03:29
makoit's a GPL compliance issue someone at FSFe who wants to distribute CDs is asking about03:29
mjg59mako: There doesn't need to be - they're accompanied by the source on the FTP servers03:31
makomjg59: it does when we distribute binary old cds03:31
makomjg59: ergh. binary only03:31
mjg59mako: It does for the CDs that are posted03:31
mjg59It doesn't for CDs that are downloaded03:31
makomjg59: right. i'm talking about the cds we're pressing and sending03:32
makomjg59: but very often, people include the written offer in a file on the cd03:32
makothat's what lnx-bbc does03:34
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Kamionm0j0: no, you can fetch it from the archive04:05
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pittisjoerd: I just wrote a dev.d script for automatic unmounting04:32
pittisjoerd: indeed it works far better than with hal04:32
pittisjoerd: multiple devices are all unmounted, hal sometimes left some mounted04:33
sjoerdpitti: dude cool :)04:33
pittisjoerd: it's actually trivial04:34
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sjoerdthat's what i expected04:34
Kamionelmo: assuming this is the problem that you end up with ash in main, I can't reproduce with hoary main+restricted+universe+multiverse Packages/Sources I'm afraid; can you point me to your input files?04:41
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KeybukTechnical Board meeting in 15 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting.04:45
Kamionlamont_r: "Buildd separation of supported/unsupported" in https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals: that's done, isn't it?04:53
KamionKeybuk: I need to go out for a bit, so I'll miss the start of the tech board meeting; I should be along later04:54
KeybukKamion: I'll defer the merge discussion until you're back then ... though I doubt it'll be too long a meeting as mdz is away04:54
mdzI'm actually lurking about for a bit more04:55
Keybukoh, right :)04:56
Keybukdo you want to chair it then? :)04:57
mdzI'll be around for only 5-10 minutes more04:58
mdzthe agenda seems to have some substance to it, so surely the meeting will last longer than that04:59
mdzunless you guys want to postpone it04:59
Keybuknope, might as well plough through it05:00
KeybukTechnical Board meeting on #ubuntu-meeting now.05:00
lamont_rKamion: yes05:05
lamont_rKamion: that is, yes the buildd separation is done.  Dunno about herbert/ia64 - someone probably needs to tell him...05:07
fabbionelamont_r: i will need you to kick a manual xorg build on ia64 and send me the logs + MANIFEST.ia64 and MANIFEST.ia64.new05:07
fabbionelamont_r: otherwise it will be a permanent FTBFS05:08
lamont_rfabbione: ok05:08
fabbionelamont_r: if you can kick hppa too, that would help Debian in a few weeks from now ;)05:10
lamont_rfabbione: I need to actually get my hppa box running again, now that I have good hardware...05:10
fabbionelamont_r: that sounds like a good plan05:11
elmothere's an ia64 port box - once we have enough to debootstrap, I can create hoary chroots05:13
fabbioneelmo: thanks, but if i can upload a fixed X before the buildd arrives to xorg....05:13
fabbioneit will make lamont life simpler05:13
fabbioneand fixing the manifest file is relatively simple05:13
elmoyes, well, I need to do it anyway - I was just saying05:14
elmoremember there is life outside x.org :P05:14
fabbioneeheh cool.. 05:14
fabbioneelmo: UH really?? where??05:14
fabbionehere everything has a X on it05:14
azeemfabbione: it's called "pasta"05:14
fabbionepasta can be shaped as X05:15
azeemwhat about your gf?05:15
azeemhmm, two x chromosomes05:15
fabbioneshe can take that position too05:15
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lamont_rfabbione: btw, could you send me the log for your sucessful sparc cyrus-sasl2 build?05:41
fabbionelamont_r: sure05:41
fabbioneon the way05:43
lamont_rvidmode.cpp:19:38: X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h: No such file or directory05:43
fabbionei don't think i am there yet :-)05:44
lamont_rmay just be missing build-deps05:44
lamont_rit's universe05:44
danielsthis is the xlibs-static-{dev,pic} aftermath05:45
lamont_rah, that makes sense05:45
lamont_rwill xorg hit debian sometime soon?05:45
danielsdon't ask me05:45
fabbionelamont_r: no idea...05:45
fabbionewe want it in experimental first05:46
lamont_rah, ok05:46
fabbionefor sure it will never hit sid before sarge is out05:46
daniels(at the request of the release team)05:47
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smgood morning06:09
smI have issues with a sarge->hoary upgrade.. is that on topic here ?06:10
smsome xfree86 stuff seemed to be left over06:11
smand x session doesn't startup a window manager06:12
Kamionsm: did you follow http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WartyUpgradeNotes?06:15
Kamionwhich xfree86 stuff are we talking about here?06:18
Kamionthis is more on-topic on #ubuntu, btw06:18
smI can take it there, I wasn't sure06:19
smoh.. /etc/X11/X was left pointing to nonexistent XFree8606:19
smand xfree scripts left in /etc/X11/Xsessino.d06:19
smcan't quite see what's stopping session startup 06:22
Kamionyou do have xserver-xorg installed?06:23
Kamioncould you file a bug about the upgrade problem, then? unless daniels or fabbione show up to contradict me06:24
daniels(no, looks like a bug to me)06:24
smok will do06:24
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smurgh.. p 2 6 606:27
smoops.. thx all06:27
Kamionelmo: ping re those germinate input files?06:28
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lamont_rhrm...  apache build-dep's figlet, which is universe... can we kill apache now? :-)06:29
danielslamont_r: fixed in debian06:29
elmoKamion: yeah, sorry, getting06:29
lamont_rfixed how?06:29
danielslamont_r: well, it doesn't echo GO MOTHERFUCKER | figlet, anymore06:30
elmoKamion: people.ubuntu.com/~james/germinate-input/06:31
elmokamion: I run germinate on those in turn, and concatenate the results06:31
fabbionedaniels: that was only on i386 :-)06:32
=== fabbione &
elmokamion: don't bother06:37
elmoI just realised what it is ... ia64...06:37
elmoit got auto added to the list of arches I run germinate on and shouldn't have06:37
Kamionah, I see06:38
Kamionhow did that cause ash to get added?06:38
Kamionno dash yet?06:38
elmowell, up until like, last night, no anything except arch: all :)06:38
Kamionoh, and ash is arch: all :-)06:38
Kamionelmo: might wanna tla update germinate anyway, I added that substitution variable thing06:40
danielsash is arch: all?06:41
Kamionit's a transitional package to dash06:41
Kamionelmo: do you care about the specific format of the *.sources germinate output files? specifically, would anything break if the "IPv6 status" column became optional?06:41
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seb128pitti: you've worked on the OO.o merge, right ?06:41
pittiseb128: no, that was doko06:42
Kamionelmo: I'm kind of concerned about the way running germinate depends on fabbione's ADSL being up06:42
pittiseb128: I only sent him the language-pack patch06:42
seb128ok, sorry for the noise so :)06:42
seb128doko: here ?06:42
pittino worries :-)06:42
dokoseb128: a moment, please ...06:43
seb128doko: no problem, just wondering why OO.o 1.1.2 and not 1.1.3 ...06:43
dokoseb128: did it as well, but the differences in the patches are minor. and AFAIK haggai is doing the OOo 1.1.3 work for hoary.06:44
elmokamion: all I tend to care about is that the package name is the first column06:44
seb128doko: ok, I was just wondering, 1.1.3 has some nice improvements06:44
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haggaidoko: uh, I didn't say that yet.  I don't know how much extra spare time I'll need for that06:45
Kamionelmo: right, I think I'll make the IPv6 stuff only get added if you do germinate.py -i06:45
dokoseb128, haggai: ok, then I'll merge it again with the next release to experimental. when will that be?06:48
pittisjoerd: just uploaded a new hal with the dev.d script06:48
pittisjoerd: if you merge the stuff, please pay attention to the ubuntu-storage-policy patch06:49
sjoerdhehe, i just downloaded -1ubuntu506:49
haggaidoko: we haven't got an ETA yet, we're both busy with work on 2.006:49
pittisjoerd: no, the recent version is -1ubuntu606:49
sjoerdyeah, i downloaded the previous version like 10 minutes ago06:50
pittisjoerd: people.ubuntulinux.org/~pitti/06:50
pittisjoerd: I put ubuntu6 there06:50
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pittisjoerd: it was accepted, so it should appear on archive.u.o soon anyway06:54
seb128what's the target for an upload in warty ?06:57
seb128I want to fix #368706:58
pittiseb128: security upload?06:58
seb128pitti: no, bug fix upload (missing file in the package)06:58
pittiseb128: oh, something like proposed-updates; I thought we don't do this in general?06:59
seb128dunno, I've not uploaded anything in warty since the release06:59
pittiseb128: sorry, I don't now. maybe ask elmo?06:59
seb128I've asked on the chan, anybody knowing is free to reply :)06:59
pittiseb128: mdz talked about "warty-updates"07:00
seb128pitti: that's why I ask :)07:00
seb128elmo: ping ?07:00
Keybukthere's warty-updates, but we never told anyone about it, so it's pretty pointless to upload to it </broken record> :p07:05
seb128ah ah07:06
azeemso, somebody (the guy who asked about multisync packages earlier this month) asked for amd64 packages of those multisync .debs I did. I guess he can't just install the i386 ones, right?07:07
lamont_razeem: need amd6407:07
azeemhe needs amd64 .debs, you mean? 07:09
lamont_razeem: in the perfect world, there would be 32 bit libs on amd64 as well, and then you could get away with that better....07:09
azeemwell, I guess I'll wait till somebody else tells me they actually work before I start to worry about that07:09
lamont_rgnupg build-depends mail-transport-agent?  le huh?07:13
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azeem  * debian/control (Build-Depends): add mail-transport-agent to ensure07:14
azeem    gpgkeys_mailto is built.07:14
pittimako: here?07:15
pittiseb128: can you care for dropping mozilla-dev from the build-deps of epiphany-extensions?07:18
seb128pitti: as said during the meeting I'm going to do this yes, you want this right now ?07:19
pittiseb128: no, it's not that urgent07:19
seb128ok, I'll do it after dinner07:19
pittiseb128: I just wanted to ensure that it is possible07:20
pittiseb128: oh, no hurry07:20
pittiseb128: do you know about swfdec? It's currently the only other package that b-deps on mozilla07:20
seb128oh yes, no problem, I've already rebuilt epiphany-browser with firefox07:20
seb128no, dunno for swfdec07:20
pittiseb128: can you try wether it works with m-f-dev as well?07:21
seb128that's on my list too yes07:21
pittiokay, thanks a lot07:21
pittiseb128: I just checked again, it's only these two packages07:21
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seb128ok, nice07:22
moj0seb128: do u use RealPlayer for Unix?07:22
moj0seb128: bad luck07:23
seb128elmo: "sen?" ? :)07:23
moj0seb128: it runs under Sarge not Ubuntu07:23
seb128elmo: 07:23
seb128<seb128> what's the target for an upload in warty ?07:23
seb128<seb128> I want to fix #368707:23
Kamionmoj0: please keep support questions to #ubuntu07:23
elmoseb128: tab completion gone arwy07:24
elmo(err, or whatever the word is)07:24
moj0Kamion: it's seems to me development issue than support issue07:24
danielselmo: (awry)07:24
elmoseb128: 'warty-updates'07:24
Kamionmoj0: we can't have this channel being used for routine bug reporting, or we wouldn't be able to get anything done for the noise07:25
seb128elmo: ok, thanks !07:25
Kamionmoj0: if you come up with a fix and want to ask about the best way to get it integrated into Ubuntu, that would be a suitable topic for this channel07:25
moj0Kamion: i c07:25
moj0Kamion: yes, that's the one I want to coop with devel here07:26
seb128devels are on #ubuntu too07:26
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Manojanyone have access to the changes ubuntu has made to kernel-package? The patch in debian bug #281465 is malformed07:40
KamionManoj: well, the archive's public, but let me see07:41
lamont_rKamion: damn. you beat me to it.07:41
KamionManoj: which bit is malformed?07:41
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Manojpatch: **** malformed patch at line 359: @@ -1606,10 +1613,12 @@ endif07:42
Manojthe @@endif is bogus07:42
KamionManoj: I'll see if I can fix the patch at that URL07:43
Manojand there are @@ else, etc, further down that patch07:43
Manojdoes ubuntu use arch as a repository?07:43
Kamionthat's the eventual plan but it's not quite there yet07:44
elmoKamion: could I be ultra lame and ask you to fix an mdz typo in the seed lists for me?  it's gnome-app-install, not 'gnome-app-installer'.. no rush, just next time you add/remove something :)07:44
Manojin that case, would there be an effort to tag the ubunto arch repo off upstream arch repos (for example, for kernel-package), so the merging gets easier?07:44
KamionManoj: believe so07:45
Manojlamont: y'all should have selected something more impervisou to typos07:45
ManojI keep wanting to call it ubunti07:45
Manojdarn. feels weird to be upstream07:46
lamont_rManoj: yeah, well..07:47
KamionManoj: try now07:50
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Kamionelmo: done07:53
elmocheers dude07:53
Keybuk^ classic, but annoyingly bad quality :(07:57
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Kamioncenerentola: please turn off public away08:00
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shayasheesh, what type of bandwidth does archive.ubuntu.com have!08:04
shayadownloading at 1Mbps08:04
Mitariodialup ;)08:04
Keybukshaya: is that slow, or fast for you? :)08:04
shayarelatively fast08:04
shayaat least when not downloading from local mirror08:05
shayaactually 1MBps08:05
shayanot 1Mbps08:05
shaya1Mbps wouldnt be so fast08:05
shaya970kB/s to be exact right now08:05
shayaubuntu doesn't install whois by default08:06
Kamionshaya: it does in hoary, not in warty08:07
Kamion(gnome-nettool depends on it now)08:07
shayaupdating to hoary right now08:08
Kamionwell, you can always just install the whois package, which would be a bit less intrusive08:09
shayaKamion: only installed warty to upgrade to hoary08:10
Kamionthere's a hoary install CD ... :)08:10
Kamion(but sure, fair enough)08:10
danielsKamion: odds of madwifi in installer phase?08:11
Kamiondaniels: depends how evil it is08:11
shayaKamion: doesn't seem so evil, just plain module loading08:11
shayain restricted08:11
Kamionwhat does it involve adding?08:11
shayaKamion: basically, /etc/network/interfaces is written in installer, if madwifi isn't there, doesn't get added to interfaces, hence even though detected on boot, can't be brought up08:12
Kamionyes, I'm familiar with the potential problems08:12
shayaKamion: unsure, but hotplug already knows about it08:12
shayaanother question: why does my menu.lst get rewritten with ".dpkg-tmp" kernels?08:13
Kamionseb128: does #3754 make any sense to you?08:13
Kamionshaya: I guess update-grub sucks, or something08:13
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shayaKamion: or called too early08:14
shayaargh, no 2.6.9 kernel08:14
shayameans my treo doesnt work08:14
Kamionthom's away at the moment, isn't he?08:15
danielsvacing in vegas08:18
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shayahmm, x-chat settings seem to have changed in move to hoary, no longer a black background08:20
chrisaxchat changed their default08:21
chrisaI recall they had a black theme linked in the #xchat topic08:21
lupus_I have 2.408:22
lupus_and still black08:22
chrisaDid you still have your old ~/.xchat2 lying around?08:22
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spotterall nice and better now08:22
lupus_from warty I think08:22
chrisaThen that would be why08:23
chrisaYou have the old color palettes lying around08:23
seb128Kamion: the panel launcher is in gnome-panel, and it was pointing on evolution-2.0.desktop08:29
seb128Kamion: that's fixed for some days now08:29
seb128Kamion: I'm closing it08:29
spotterseb128: eh?08:29
spotterI just installed and hit that08:29
seb128spotter: #3754 ?08:29
spotterpanel launcher not being able to load evolution?08:30
spotterjust hit that08:30
spotterinstalled warty08:30
spotterupgraded to hoary08:30
seb128dpkg -l gnome-panel ?08:30
spottertried loading evolution08:30
spotterii  gnome-panel    2.9.1-0ubuntu2 Launch and/or dock GNOME 2 applic08:30
seb128you have made changes on the panel ?08:31
spotterdidnt, I edited the launcher to do the right thing after it fialed08:33
Kamionseb128: thanks08:33
seb128spotter: have you change any panel settings since the installation ?08:34
spotterI just installed warty08:34
spotterlike 20 minutes ago08:34
spotterthen immeadily upgraded to hoary08:34
spottersort of annoyed that must use evolution-2.1 in it08:34
spotteras evolution-2.1 is severly broken right now08:34
spotterbut oh well08:34
seb128gnome-panel (2.9.1-0ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low08:34
seb128  * Fixed the evolution launcher (Hoary: #3559).08:34
lupus_evolution crashes from time to time :)08:35
seb128the launcher has been fixed in the panel layout08:35
lupus_seb128, just now? :p08:35
seb128dunno why it has not changed your config08:35
seb128lupus_: no, why ?08:35
spotterbut I guess its not picked up if already in the actual panel08:35
seb128spotter: perhaps, the package can't overwritte the user config, I've no easy solution for this08:35
seb128spotter: but hoary is still a devel branch, such problems happen in a devel branch08:36
lupus_ah it is normal that it isn't fixed :)08:36
seb128just change the command in the launcher08:36
spotterseb128: already ddid08:36
spotterI didnt even think it was a bug until you mentioned it08:36
lupus_seb128, but when people upgrade from warty08:36
lupus_the problem will still be there?08:37
spotterlupus: it's a bug in warty that can't be fixed easily08:37
spotterthe launcher should never have contained a versioned name08:37
spotterit should have been just evolution, not evolution-2.008:38
lupus_yes I know08:38
seb128the problem is that evolution 2.0 provides a evolution-2.0.desktop08:39
seb128and evolution 2.2 a evolution-2.2.desktop08:39
seb128and no evolution.desktop08:39
Kamionor an evolution package that depends on the current one and contains an evolution.desktop symlink08:40
seb128Kamion: I've just not thought to add a evolution.desktop, the evolution-2.0.desktop was not a problem08:40
lupus_.desktop files08:40
lupus_nm :)08:41
seb128hum, an upstream is asking ... do we have "subscribe to bugs for a package" feature in bugzilla ?08:41
lupus_I wanted to say is this a bug upstream then :)08:41
=== Kamion wanders off for a bit while mozilla-firefox builds
spotteranyone have any idea how I can downgrade evolution from hoary?08:42
seb128not easy08:43
seb128what's the problem with it ?08:43
spotterit doesn't work08:43
spotterat all08:43
seb128downgrading evolution mean downgrading evolution-data-server, so gnome-panel ...08:43
spotterthough maybe warty isn't any better for me08:43
seb128what's the problem with it ?08:43
chrisa'it doesn't work' isn't too helpful08:45
spotterit cant seem to use tls on my smtp connections08:45
spotteralways fails08:45
seb128tls ?08:46
spottersecure smtp08:46
spotteralways get a connection refused08:46
seb128yeah, apparently there is some problem with the secure connexion08:46
spottercan't send mail :(08:46
spottercan download it fine, just cant send it08:47
seb128turn the secure off08:47
spotterrequired to send mail08:47
spotterbtw, any reason why evolution-exchange is basically required to be installed?08:48
spotterseb: any way to fix the sending problem? or is this an upstream issue?08:49
spotterhmm, I see ximian isnt doing anyhing about it yet08:51
seb128spotter: yes, upstream issue, turning the smtp secure option to off should work ...08:55
seb128spotter: evolution-exchange is in the "standard" installation you can remove it08:56
spotterseb128: only if you remove ubuntu-desktop09:01
spotteras that depends on it09:01
spotteris ubuntu-desktop a real package or a meta package?09:02
seb128spotter: yes, but you don't need it09:02
seb128spotter: apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop :)09:02
spotterseb128: but also wont automatically pull in any new "standard" packages09:03
spotterso its sort of a catch-2209:03
seb128yeah ...09:04
spotterthis is weird, universe contains packages that are in the main dist?09:05
seb128should not, why ?09:06
spotteri.e. for example, python2.309:06
spotterthere's 2.3.4-13ubuntu and 2.3.4-1609:06
seb1282.3.4-13ubuntu1 here09:07
spotteryes, but I added universe and got 2.3.4-1609:07
spotter-16 > -13ubuntu109:07
spotterhence it sort of wants to upgrade it09:07
Kamionthat sounds like you added Debian rather than universe09:07
spotternot that I can see09:08
spotteronly deb line in my sources.list09:08
spotterdeb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted universe09:08
seb128apt-cache policy python2.3 ?09:09
spotter  Installed: 2.3.4-13ubuntu109:09
spotter  Candidate: 2.3.4-1609:09
spotter  Version Table:09:09
spotter     2.3.4-16 009:09
spotter        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages09:09
spotter *** 2.3.4-13ubuntu1 009:09
spotter        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status09:09
spottermean anything to you?09:10
seb128ok, so only one version in main09:10
seb128that's right09:10
seb128yeah, nothing from universe09:10
spotterso 2.3.4-16 is the newest ubuntu version?09:10
spotterno -16ubuntu1 or what not?09:10
seb128Kamion: do we have a "subscribe to bugs for a package" feature in bugzilla ?09:10
Kamionseb128: no idea I'm afraid09:11
seb128spotter: 2.3.4-16 > 2.3.4-13...09:11
spotterok, just wanted to ensure I was installing an ubuntu package09:11
spotterversion # through me off09:11
Kamion python2.3 | 2.3.4-13ubuntu1 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, source09:11
seb128Kamion: ok, who is in charge of the bugzilla/the bugzilla expert now ?09:11
Kamionthat's all I can say ...09:11
Kamionseb128: jdub's your best bet, I think09:11
seb128Kamion: I've just updated and get the new python2.3 on i386 here09:11
lupus_isn't python 2.4 almost out :)09:12
KamionI'm looking at a freshly rsynced archive on little09:12
seb128lupus_: that has been discussed, probably too late to get everything working with it for hoary09:12
lupus_hoary is in 6 months09:13
lupus_that's a lot of time09:13
Kamionupstream version freeze is much sooner than that09:14
seb128lupus_: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule09:15
seb128lupus_: 509:16
seb128December 27th09:16
seb128Array Test CD 609:16
seb128oups, copy/paste ....09:16
Kamionthe Array CD dates are wrong, I'll update them09:17
Kamionhm, maybe best not actually, I'm a week out of phase09:17
seb128I was pasting that for " /!\ UpstreamVersionFreeze" which didn't get pasted :p09:17
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jdubanyone know smeg all about evms?09:24
Kamionjdub: that'd be mdz09:24
seb128jdub: oh, you, bugzilla's master :) Is there any way to subscribe to the bugs for a package in bugzilla ?09:25
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jdubKamion: mmm. lacking. d'oh.09:26
jdubseb128: hrm09:26
jdubseb128: i don't think we have a really neat way of doing it for multiple people in our bugzilla09:27
jdubseb128: but i can put you on as QA contact or owner of a particular module09:27
seb128garnacho was asking if he has a way to track the gnome-system-tools bugs09:28
seb128perhaps the QA contact would be ok for that :)09:28
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justdaveeasiest way to do that right now is make up a fake account to stick as the QA09:39
justdavethen have people watch that account from their preferences09:39
seb128thanks justdave 09:39
spotterseb128: an option might be do pull a windows 09:40
spotteri.e. have an "all users account"09:40
spotterso data from there is pulled in for all the users09:40
spotterusers can "white out" the enteries if they want09:40
spotterif they change them, they are copied locally09:40
lupus_on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryHedgehog 2* HoaryReleaseSchedule  and 1* HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule09:41
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jdubjustdave: mm, that's what gnome does - but we don't have an easily administrable aliases/lists system for it yet09:43
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seb128jdub: how do we change the QA for a component ?09:53
lupus_may I just add a program to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SupportedSeedProposals or must I first propose it on the mailing list?09:54
jdubseb128: i can change that in a jiffy09:55
seb128jdub: could you set carlosg@gnome.org for gnome-system-tools ?09:56
mirakis gnome-volume-mixer supposed to work with alsa ?09:57
lupus_which one may be removed?10:00
lupus_shouldn't https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GuideToHoary and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryUpgradeNotes be merged?10:01
spotteranyone knows when archive.ubuntu is updated each day?10:05
danielsiirc it's every half hour10:05
spotterso not just daily like ftp.debian.org10:06
jdubcron.daily runs every 30 mins :)10:09
seb128jdub: that's ok for the gst QA ?10:11
jdubseb128: yeah10:12
seb128ok, thanks !10:12
jdubwe'll sort out aliases for them later10:12
spotterwhat's the "multiverse"?10:36
ChrisHspotter: the "non-free" area of ubuntu10:36
jdubspotter: ubuntu equivalent of debian's contrib/non-free10:36
spotteryah all couldn't just go with the regularly understood names :)10:37
spotterI would have figured restricted was non-free10:37
spotteror is that restricted = "non-free" but in Ubuntu Main, while Multiverse = restricted universe10:38
jdubrestricted is drivers only10:39
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spotteruniverse stuff can have bug filed against them, right?10:54
sivangspotter : you need to file it against debian, as universe is not supported ..:)10:55
spottersivang: except it doesnt seem like a bug in debian10:56
spotteri.e. need force-overwrite to install10:56
sivangspotter : in that case, you should file the bug against the component in warty/hoary you think is responsible for the bug10:56
jdubsivang: ubuntu bugs should *not* be filed against debian11:04
jdubsivang: universe or not, they are all ubuntu packages11:04
sivangjdub : ah sorry, I recalled I read it on the universe/multiverse wiki maybe? 11:05
jdubhope not...11:05
sivangjdub : from bugsy:11:06
sivangjdub :   Before reporting a bug, please read the bug writing guidelines, please look at the list of most frequently reported bugs, and please search for the bug.11:06
sivangPlease note: packages which are found in the 'universe' repository are not supported here. Since packages from 'universe' are rebuilt from Debian Sid, problems with them should be reported to Debian. If you are certain the problem is caused by an interaction with something in Ubuntu, you can post to the ubuntu-users mailing list for assistance. 11:06
sivangsorry for the rude paste11:07
jdubwe should modify that a bit11:07
sivangjdub : according to what you just said, maybe so :)11:07
spotteranyone know what package icon-slicer is in?11:09
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justdavehe's klined11:12
spotterany idea why the theme selector isn't letting me switch themes?11:20
spotterstays on human no matter what I do11:20
sivangjdub : so we would need to investigate the package, and only if it's opsses in debian open bug upstream? (=debian)11:35
jdubsivang: well atm, we wouldn't, because there is no bug tracking for universe :)11:38
sivangjdub : is there anything in the works for it? or some sort of bug reporting infras. for univ. ?11:38
jdubsivang: in the future, more people will be concentrating on universe fixes11:38
jdubkind of11:38
jdubnot directly, but there will be a solution post-bugzilla11:39
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spotteranyone know how I am supposed to be able to change the theme in hoary?11:42
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