=== robertj_afk is back
hornbeckok, the router is here!12:39
hornbeckI will be taking the server down in a few, but just for about five minutes12:40
hornbeckI will make sure no one is connected, but please don't connect12:40
hornbeckI'll be back when its done 12:43
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hornbeck_server is still down, my new router is being  a bitch01:44
hornbeck_just was letting you guys know it may be a few01:44
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hornbeck_server is back up02:41
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George^Dekahi all05:42
hornbeckrobertj: you around?06:03
hornbeckwell night for me, almost bedtime07:00
hornbeckspeaking of bedtime, goodnight guys07:01
hornbecksee you in seven hours07:01
plovshornbeck, night07:02
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George^Dekahi trickie08:43
George^Dekathink i might be having a fair few typos my new theme has grey text in the xchat imput box08:43
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=== sid77 ciao
trickieGeorge^Deka, i get a few wierd xchat color things sometimes08:50
trickieGeorge^Deka, how are you?08:50
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plovs_workmorning all10:02
lulumorning :o) 10:03
plovs_worklulu, what kind of extra details where you talking about yesterday? My info looks pretty complete to my untrained eyes10:04
plovs_worklulu, or do i need to add exact time of arrival?10:05
luluplovs_work: if all info that's needed on the wiki is complete, then u done :o)10:07
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plovs_worklulu, ok, and thanks10:09
plovs_worklulu, will you send extra info on how to get from the airport to the hotel, how to get to  the conference, etc or use the wiki and ask mako?10:11
ChrisHmoin $ALL10:12
plovs_workChrisH, moin10:12
luluploves_work: as more info comes available, it will be posted on the wiki. I know as much as you do at this point :o)10:17
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luluplovs_work: there is quite a bit of detail on the wiki on Flying In to Barcelona and getting to Mataro....have u seen it?10:51
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sivangmorning all!11:11
sivanglulu : Hi :)11:14
lulusivang: Introducing Gnom application installer...is that the news item?11:18
sivanglulu : yes :)11:18
sivanglulu : how did you find it?11:18
lulugood - ok so it's there - and it's visible, but not yet published. Are you still working on it? Do you want to put links to further information in it?11:19
lulusivang:it's in the contents page under Ubuntu section.11:19
lulusivang: did u add the large plone folder?11:20
sivanglulu : ok, leave it unpublished. I need to add to it, telling about it's stableness and make the console code look as 'code' :)11:20
lulusivang: ok - you publish it when you are ready and the news portlet should then appear on the page.11:21
sivanglulu : to the docs/support section? I experimented with it, and then couldn't remove it. If you can, I would appriciate it.11:21
sivanglulu : ok thanks, sorry for not opening a bug - was way unwell eventually yesterday, and among other things I had to do..well, firgured I opened it today , but good to know it's already fixed! thank you!11:21
lulusivang: you want news/announcements to appear in the documentation section, or in every page ont he site?11:22
sivanglulu : I would love it to appear on the main page, so people won't miss our news when not entering the support/doc section :)11:23
lulusivang:news items will appear as a portlet on every page.11:24
lulusivang: did u create the large plone folder?11:24
luluand empty folder?11:24
luluit has nothing in it and no name, so I'm going to delete it.11:26
sivanglulu : ok, thanks11:27
sivanglulu : :) --> <sivang> lulu : to the docs/support section? I experimented with it, and then couldn't remove it. If you can, I would appriciate it.11:28
lulusivang: oh - sorry - it was not appearing in that section at all...I misunderstood you - apologies mate - all removed and looking good. :o)11:32
sivanglulu : thanks11:33
plovssivang, hi, how are you today?11:37
plovslulu, yes, thanks i saw that i was just wondering how to get from the hotel to the Tecnocampus, and will you send some info on the hotel as well? (i'm just excited then i always ask lots of questions)11:40
luluplovs: great you are excited. The tecnocampus is a short walk from the hotel, but daily venues and the schedule are still being finalised.11:42
plovslulu, ok, thanks11:45
luluplovs: np :o)11:45
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cenerentolaive got an how-to on how to bypass error 21 with ubuntu live cd...12:25
cenerentolashould i upload it to the wiki? which section in?12:25
sivangcenerentola : Room101, add something to note it's related to the live cd :)12:32
sivangcenerentola : buena sierra btw :)12:32
cenerentolaspanish is not italian... everybody.... let's say "Buona Sera"12:32
cenerentola... even if its noon...12:32
sid77cenerentola, it's noon only here...12:33
cenerentolaaroftl, *also*?12:33
cenerentola...ahhh... 12:34
sid77cenerentola, try with /whois ubuntu-it ;)12:34
sivangcenerentola : ah sorry12:36
sivangcenerentola : but thanks for the document btw!12:36
cenerentolasivang: merely joking12:36
cenerentolaok ill tell you, before the ml, other projects i take care of in my mind12:37
sivangml = mailing list?12:37
cenerentolasince i started dreaming of an UbuntuLinux ITALIA thing... [ml -> yes] 12:38
cenerentolaloads of projects came up while dreaming at night...12:38
cenerentola1) im setting up a framework for "how-to development"...12:38
cenerentola---excursus starts here---12:39
cenerentolasince with btlug we're pushing ubuntu in schools, public administrations, voluntary associations... so on12:39
cenerentolawe HAVE the need of supporting REAL, NEVER HEARD OF, computer-HOMINIDES12:40
cenerentolalike clerks, literature teachers, and so on...12:40
cenerentola---excursus is over---12:40
cenerentolaso i thought that itd be a nice thing to create [im talking about Ubuntulinux italia] 12:41
cenerentolaa framework to produce how-to:12:41
cenerentola[in current language]  because of the fact that every installation is different from machine to machine [and if the hominides read an howto where dpkg is used, thi is more and more true] 12:42
cenerentolai thought of a place [: like subversion]  where i can upload an how-to and all the doc-team members can add their how-to following theyre experience to create an hypertext like "if what appear is -xyz- click here otherwise if no exceptions are being thrown click-here12:44
cenerentolaso not a mere how-to that, by definition, CAN'T cover all the possible aspects, that is WAYS, of an installation...12:45
cenerentolabut an hypertext that can follow you in any circumstances [or at least those lived by doc-team-members] ..12:46
cenerentolaid love to hear you understand me, because i know my english hasnt been beautiful: im talkin in italian with my auntie, chatting spanish with a friend... and im messing all the thing up12:46
sivangcenerentola : but isn't that what the wiki is for ? :)12:49
cenerentolawell italian hominides cant speak english...12:50
sivangthere will be multi lingual support , it's being worked on.12:50
cenerentolaand a wiki is not portable: i cant save it on my hd... a pdf created with a script does the thing12:50
cenerentolaor not?12:51
cenerentolahey dont leave me alone.. im afraid of the dark ;)12:54
sivangwell, there are plans to have some of it available off line, I suggest you post your ideas to the list, see what people say.12:55
cenerentolaso ure not approving it... ok... ;)12:55
sivangit's not anything like that, there isn't a "one" who approves things. This is a community project, therefor community concencus must be reached before starting anything or doing anything which is more than cosmetic changes, so it can be discussed among community members. It's just how things are done here...try to understand.12:58
cenerentolammm... yep i was talking personally...12:59
cenerentolaif you liked it...12:59
cenerentolaex: i like cameron diaz, but you may not01:00
cenerentola...Einstein's General Relativity...01:00
cenerentolait all depends from the point of view... i was just asking yours... ehehe;)01:01
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plovs_workhi guys01:27
luluhi again and Hi George.. I owe u an email..apologies for the delay...01:29
sivangup plovsy!01:30
sivanggemme five!01:30
=== plovs_work gives 5$
plovs_worksivang, how's it going?01:31
sivangpretty fine I guess, making sketches for pages etc..01:33
George^Dekahi all01:34
George^Dekalulu: thats cool i have been busy too01:34
George^Dekahi sivang01:34
sivanghey there, George^Deka01:34
George^Dekahi plovs01:34
plovs_workhi George^Deka01:34
luluhornbeck: around?01:44
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hornbeckhey, hows it going02:31
plovs_workhornbeck, morning, very fine02:32
=== plovs_work is playing with openbsd
hornbeckplovs_work: I like openbsd :-)02:33
hornbecksivang: do people really need acceptence for a wiki page?02:33
plovs_workhornbeck, acceptance?02:34
hornbeckhis new email02:34
sivanghornbeck : s/accaptance/submission02:34
hornbeckPreliminaries for establishing a work acceptence process:02:34
sivangaccaptment may not be the best word here,02:34
hornbeckthat is the thing with a wiki though is you can just add a page where you see fit02:35
plovs_worksivang, atm people just drop it in the wiki02:35
hornbeckit will deter people if they have to write a email along with writing the page02:35
hornbeckI  know I will not remember to post for every new page02:35
sivanglulu also suggested that02:35
sivangit would enable us to keep track,02:36
sivangand the neatly link pages up02:36
hornbeckthan it needs not to be a wiki than02:36
plovs_worksivang, i am not for or against anything yet, but this deeats the whole purpose of the wiki02:37
sivanghmm, ok, drop the approval nature that is implied,02:37
plovs_worksivang, or do you mean how to get your doc incorperated in the main docs?02:37
sivangjust the keep track infrastructure02:37
sivangfor both offline / wiki 02:37
hornbeckI could see this for a main doc that is offline or something02:38
plovs_worksivang, still does not work with wiki, wiki is non-linear ub structure02:38
sivangso wiki by nature is chaos ?:)02:39
plovs_worksivang, yes02:39
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hornbecksivang: my nature wiki is very chaos02:39
hornbeckit is anarchy in its finist :-)02:39
sivanghey again lulu02:39
sivangwe're discussing my last post to ML02:39
hornbeckhey lulu, you was looking for me?02:40
plovs_worksivang, i like your points, but have a problem with seeing how ti implement it02:43
plovs_worksivang, i like: Establish the documentation testing team02:43
plovs_worksivang, problem: no infrastructure/no people02:43
plovs_worksivang, i like: contacting a person02:44
luluhornbeck: hiya - I'm responding to the license email you sent from dev...in a bit...02:44
plovs_worksivang, problem: the change links are *still* broken 02:44
sivangchange links ?02:44
plovs_worksivang, in the recent-changes page, who made the change02:45
plovs_worksivang, svn-server needs to be integrated with the doc-team, but first we need to make sure it works :-)02:46
hornbeckI sent a license email?02:46
hornbecksivang: I sent a reply to your post with my thoughts02:48
plovs_worksivang, if we want something like this then we need to hack zwiki02:48
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sivangthanks hornbeck02:49
lulusivang: did you cc the list?02:54
sivanglulu : yes02:54
lulutx :o)02:54
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hornbeckhey robert02:59
plovs_worksivang, added my 2c03:00
sivangplovs_work : thanks03:01
George^Dekaplovs_work: got your gmail pop3 activated yet - got mine today but dont know if i will use it kind of like the confort of having everything on the server03:05
hornbeckrcaskey_: you got time to work on the index?03:07
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, got it today, i'll test it first03:07
hornbeckgot my pop access also :-)03:07
George^Dekaplovs_work: in response to your email how about when something becomes final it is moved to docbook and off the wiki, and them imported back into support and we then maintain it on the svn server03:07
George^Dekaplovs_work: wiki should only be for draft docs, then they move to svn03:08
George^Dekaand sorry i have not had any progress yet on a ReST to Docbook converter03:09
George^Dekai will address this all in a email but fleshing it out here first03:09
sivangWe have some people for doc test team,03:09
sivangsee http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/DocumentationTeam03:10
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, agree with you, send it to the ml, so we can see everybodies opinion formally03:12
George^Dekasivang: 1) why use the old wiki  2) should we not update the list of core team03:13
George^Dekaplovs: will do03:13
rcaskey_hornbeck: yeah03:18
sivangGeorge^Deka : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/documentation <-- seen this?03:18
rcaskey_I looked at "XP in a Nutshell"03:19
rcaskey_it's a 640 page reference03:20
George^Dekasivang: a while ago checking now - is the one on the wiki removed or pointing to the support page03:20
sivangshould be used anyhow03:21
sivangso no care was taken to point03:21
sivanghowever, this might apply for some old new news item :)03:21
sivanglulu : what do you think?03:21
lulusivang: sorry - the question is?03:24
hornbeckrcaskey: yes, linux in a nutshell is very long also03:24
lulusivang: updating the core team on the wiki or on the web?03:25
sivanglulu : George^Deka pointed that maybe we should have something very apparent to tell old wiki is not longer used, neither should be looked 03:25
George^Dekasivang: i have this bad problem of allways looking on the wiki not the static site - my bad i know03:25
rcaskey_That kind of reminds me of the manual I had from Progeny03:25
rcaskey_great toilet reading but otherwise useless03:26
rcaskey_also "Redhat Linux Unleashed 2"03:26
plovs_workduplicate info should be removed, see ml03:26
hornbeckrcaskey: I would like a useful, but still kinda short03:26
hornbeckrcaskey: not 500 pages03:26
rcaskey_It had chapters on Linux, Perl, X development in C, X in C++, it was just so broad as to be useless03:26
hornbeckwell, we have a good outline03:27
rcaskey_hornbeck: I like the direction we are going in03:27
rcaskey_I say we just flesh out what we have03:27
hornbecklet me pull it up03:27
luluGeorge^Deka: The old wiki will be moved. James Troup has promised to do it this week. It's been frozen. I can get a message put up that it is no longer in use too, if needed.03:27
rcaskey_thats LearningUbuntuOutline on the wiki for anyone else interested03:27
hornbeckhehe, I am still looking at Proposed Index03:28
George^Dekalulu: i didnt actually say that sivang put words in my mouth - but yeah its cool03:28
hornbeckok I changed to the real one03:28
George^Dekacheck ML my reply03:28
luluGeorge^Deka:np - 03:28
rcaskey_Do you want me working on the proposed index?03:29
hornbeckrcaskey: no, lets stick to LearningUbuntuOutline03:29
hornbeckrcaskey: I think system configuration is a nice starting point for us right now03:29
hornbeckwhat would you like to see in that03:29
hornbeckI think, network, dial up03:30
hornbeckmost things in Computer -> Sytem Configuration03:30
hornbeckgo over each Item03:30
George^Dekai think samba, if i ever get lots of spare time i am going to investigate making a addon to the properties of folders for samba sharing in python of cource03:31
rcaskey_horn: give me a second03:31
rcaskey_I'm at work and need to install vnc on my ubuntu machine03:31
hornbeckyou don't have Ubuntu at work????????03:31
hornbeckhow dare you :-)03:31
hornbeckI am getting paid right now, I am sitting at home, and I don't have a job for anothe hour :-)03:32
rcaskey_horn: who do you work for?03:32
hornbeckI work for a company called AA Computer Services03:32
hornbeckI am a Sysadmin03:32
rcaskey_need anymore ;)03:32
hornbeckbut I do most my work from home03:33
George^Dekahornbeck: we are not all as lucky as you some are in native winblows enviroments - but maybe if i recompiled my kernel cause we are totally terminal services03:33
hornbecknope just hired three people03:33
hornbeckGeorge^Deka: I work on windows all day long, but the laptop comes with me so I always have linux near by03:33
hornbeckI also have alot of down time03:34
hornbeckso I can program03:34
George^Dekahornbeck: we are not all so lucky to own a laptop03:34
hornbeckGeorge^Deka: where there is a will there is a way03:34
rcaskey_doh, actually gotta work03:34
hornbeckyou have to be very motivated to suceed and get the things you want03:34
rcaskey_brb in 2 min03:34
sivangGeorge^Deka : this has already been done by gnome-system-tools, on hoary it's under Applications - > system - > sahres03:35
sivangor somethignliek that03:35
George^Dekasivang: well im on warty and i cant see it03:35
hornbecksivang: thank you for that, I did not know that was there :-)03:35
=== George^Deka wonders if there is a warty package
sivangwell, I've recently become close to it's developer so I know stuff :)03:36
hornbecksivang: it will not take my password though03:36
George^Dekafound a package on warty03:37
George^Dekawell now i realise, gnome-sys-tools is in warty just didnt have the shares part03:39
sivangthat's why I Said it's only on hoary currently03:39
George^Dekasivang: thought maybe gnome-system-tools may have only been added to def desktop for hoary - i really need to install hoary oneday03:40
George^Dekasivang: anything else cool out of interest03:41
sivangyes you should many nice thing..03:41
sivangAdd/Remove programs menu03:41
sivangout of the world cool03:41
sivangone click install03:41
hornbeckrcaskey_: I have to run out, I will be back soon03:43
rcaskey_hornbeck: hehe, ok03:45
rcaskey_see you then03:45
hornbeckwell, are you back real quick?03:45
rcaskey_I am03:46
hornbeckok, I have a few03:46
hornbeckon system configuration, how do you feel about just doing a write up for each in the system configuration menu03:46
hornbeckthat way nothing is left out of that?03:46
rcaskey_I think that would be the way to do it03:46
hornbeckwhat are your ideas for Peripherals, and installing hardware03:47
hornbeckinstalling hardware is supposed to just happen, with project utopia03:47
hornbeckI don't really know what to put there03:47
rcaskey_Hardware should give an idea of what is and isn't supported basically03:47
hornbeckwe could be way off on that though03:48
hornbeckif we list some stuff but that stuff becomes supported by release it would be bad03:48
George^Dekasivang: because i am only on dialup now not going to get hoary just yet - but do you were i might be able to get some screenies of add/remove programs03:48
hornbeckpeople may not try because we say it is not supported03:48
rcaskey_I think we just need to keep in touch with the list and keep it updated as hoary progresses03:49
rcaskey_any last minute additions can't be teseted enough to be supported in any real sense anyway03:49
hornbeckhow about "Configuring Hardware" instead03:49
hornbeckit can include, video cards, sound cards and such03:49
hornbecksounds alittle better to me03:49
rcaskey_Sounds awkward I think03:49
rcaskey_and Video card configuration should be a pointer over to System Configuration03:50
hornbeckI think Installing Hardware just makes it sound like we are going to walk them through installing a new sound card, from cracking the case on03:50
plovs_worki am using gmail-pop forwarding now and it is nice03:51
hornbeckman the wiki is slow03:54
hornbeckseems to get slower everyday03:54
George^Dekajust read on the gnome-sys-tools page something about gnome control center - what is that ? similar to the KDE one (as some may know this is my first experiance with gnome in years like RH 5 or 6 when it was just a little baby)03:54
George^Dekahornbeck: you can say that again03:54
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, just type gnome-control-center03:55
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, and you'll see03:55
plovs_workhornbeck, soon we'll be working backwards03:55
hornbeckplovs: yes03:56
plovs_workdo you guys have spam-filtering in evolution?03:56
hornbeckI don't think I do03:56
hornbeckI have never set it up03:56
plovs_workwe need a howto on that, the faq question is too short03:56
hornbeckI can add that to my todo list03:57
rcaskey_hornbeck: on the other hand, I think some people might expect that, and that it's appropriate to have a section that points them to their motherboard/system manual03:57
hornbeckI think that may be out of our scoop03:57
hornbeckrecheck the wiki page03:58
hornbeckalso System Configuration has Synaptic in it03:58
George^Dekaplovs_work: oh so thats all, at least it shows me some hidden stuff not in the menus, thought it might be like the ultra cool kde one03:59
hornbeckthat takes care of Adding and Removing programs, what do you want to do about that03:59
hornbeckGeorge^Deka: Whats KDE ?03:59
rcaskey_horn: no synaptic03:59
rcaskey_gnome-app-install or whatever it's called03:59
George^Dekaplovs_work: the FAQ is incorrect anyone all of the menus are in different places in my version (warty PR, still aint upgraded)03:59
hornbeckwhy no synaptic04:00
hornbecksynaptic is how people will be installing software04:00
hornbeckit is in the system configuration menu04:00
hornbeckwe cannot skip something that is right out in front of people04:00
rcaskey_Horneck: I wouldn't be suprised if it went away for Hoary04:00
hornbecksays who?04:00
George^Dekahornbeck: you j/k'ing right - well i was using it until 3 weeks ago04:01
rcaskey_well gnope-app-install is being custom developed for hoary04:01
hornbeckGeorge: yes I was04:01
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, i'll do some research, and it's sad but the kde one is better04:01
hornbeckif we can see that synaptic is not going to be there than yes we can leave it out04:01
plovs_workhornbeck, there is a pretty good synaptic howto in yelp04:02
hornbeckbut if it remains in the system configuration menu than we have to add something on it04:02
rcaskey_We will have to ask. That's why I left out the keeping up to date section as well, there is supposed to be a software update utility04:02
George^Dekaplovs_work: i know, everything else pretty much in gnome is better04:02
rcaskey_yeah, we can still have it04:02
rcaskey_it just can be targeted towards a little more advanced user04:02
hornbeckhow about we leave it only in the system configuration section04:02
plovs_workGeorge^Deka, well, scripting on kde is way better (or better you can script kde, you cannot script gnome)04:03
hornbeckthe adding removing software will focus on Gnome-App-Install04:03
hornbeckrcaskey: think about peripherals, and I have to run to a job real quick04:05
=== George^Deka is dying for screenies of gnome-app-install i hate synaptic command line all the way
hornbeckI will be back in about a hour04:05
rcaskey_oky, see you when I get back04:05
rcaskey_George: it's in hoary04:05
rcaskey_and it's very unfinished04:06
rcaskey_so nothing great to look at04:06
=== rcaskey_ runs afk for a few minutes
George^Dekaplovs_work: true, and adding extra componets etc to kde is much more of a breeze. eg kparts, add to properties panel etc04:06
George^Dekacan anyone tell me what does ubuntu use by default oss or alsa ?? cause i just noticed im using oss04:08
plovsGeorge^Deka, interesting that the kde framework is so much better but i find the desktop in all worse04:22
plovsGeorge^Deka, why don't you use apt-get?04:24
George^Dekaplovs: i feel the same about kde, i do use apt-get why would u think i dont -- i will never use a non apt-get distro04:26
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plovsGeorge^Deka, too bad about scripting though, apple-script would be nice to have on gnome04:34
plovslulu, are people working  on getting faster servers?04:34
luluplovs: I am working on optimising plone and getting a ZEO cluster going.04:36
George^Dekaplovs: i don't know apple-script would assume it is easy it would be great if we had a macro recorder like apple does. Now that makes writing scripts so dead simple. personally i would like to see python or vbscript in gnome (only vb script cause i know it)04:37
plovslulu, nice and thanks, things are really slooow atm, can we somehow see how many hits the server gets? and can we see how many hits a certain page gets?04:37
George^Dekaplovs: what made you think i dont use apt-get ?04:38
plovsGeorge^Deka,  is dying for screenies of gnome-app-install i hate synaptic command line all the way 04:38
plovsGeorge^Deka, synaptic command line, and i thought, eeeew04:38
George^Dekaplovs: i get you now, well i use apt-get from command line, and im on dial-up so no hoary for me04:39
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George^Dekalulu: i know i have seen it somewhere before but what do you actually do at canonical04:42
cenerentolalulu: u know i love you?04:42
luluGeorge^Deka: who wants to know! :o)04:45
luluGeorge^Deka: lots of things! Primarily in charge of the websites...04:46
cenerentolaand hows the linguaplone thing?04:47
George^Dekalulu: i want to know! hehehe, was thinking of a question to see if you might be one to pose it to.04:50
luluGeorge^Deka: pose it and if I can't answer it, I'll find someone who can :o)04:51
George^Dekalulu: then i forgot now i rememebered, re my email re doc acceptance process - what would the feasability be like in getting it done (the bugzilla part)04:51
lulucenerentola: working on it04:51
luluGeorge^Deka: been away...let me check the email and get back to you....04:52
George^Dekalulu: understable your a busy girl/woman/lady (which one fits you best ? :) )04:53
luluGeorge^Deka: all 3 is fine :o)....04:54
cenerentolarotfl sex-bomb04:55
George^Dekacenerentola: lol, but we need confermation of that04:55
hornbeckI'm back04:55
cenerentolayou who?04:56
hornbeckrcaskey: you still here?04:56
George^Dekacenerentola: of lulu=sex-bomb04:58
sivangGeorge^Deka : already available, under "Dcoumentation" tag in bugzilla04:59
George^Dekasivang: really, ummm05:01
sivangGeorge^Deka : you can already enter documentation bugs in bugzilla, see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=335305:01
hornbecktech meeting is starting05:02
ChrisHhornbeck: Hi... aren't you involved in the "nutshell" project?05:05
hornbeckI think :-)05:05
hornbeckwe are thinking of making the Ubuntu book the Nutshell project05:06
hornbeckhave you seen the new outline?05:06
ChrisHhornbeck: I just found a new posting on -doc@ and wondered about what goes into the Wiki, the FAQ or "the book".05:06
ChrisHhornbeck: No, I haven't. I just heard from sivang that there is such a project going on.05:06
ChrisHhornbeck: I wildly imagined an "Ubuntu Reference" for newbies and administrators that would contain more cleanly written sections that fit into each other than the current FAQ does.05:07
hornbeckcheck that out, it is not done by far05:07
hornbeckrcaskey_ and I are working on it05:07
ChrisHhornbeck: Very good. The TOC looks great already.05:08
hornbeckit will get better05:08
ChrisHJust wondered who is working on it. Didn't mean to "interfere" with it though. :)05:10
luluGeorge^Deka: Bugzilla - adding Documentation bugs, as Sivan said, is already up there. There is a workflow in plone for approvals, but it does get complicated, so we've stuck to the simple one....05:11
luluGeorge^Deka: perhaps when a doc is ready for review, it goes into Bugzilla and when considered ready for upload onto the site, it gets moved and bug is closed....05:11
hornbeckChrisH: you are not interfering at all05:12
George^Dekalulu: yes that sounds good, maybe this of cource will have to get discussed more and prob voted on, we use bugzilla as a workflow thingy. Cause i think thier is huge advantages for bugzilal with +r and +sr then pendingupload05:14
George^Dekahornbeck: you wanna reply to the new mail on the ML - another book proposal05:16
hornbeckI will take a look05:16
hornbeckI am not seeing it yet? did you send to -doc?05:17
George^Dekanot by me, someone else05:17
George^Dekayeah its on -doc05:17
hornbeckohh I see it than05:17
George^Dekasweet as05:17
luluGeorge^Deka:sounds good!05:19
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George^Smokosivang: tommorow if its okay with you i will make a revised proposal, for voting on. when it comes to voting is it everone in doc team or only core ? 05:26
hornbeckGeorge: I replyed05:26
George^Smokohornbeck: cool05:27
hornbeckare you one of the people involved?05:27
George^Smokohornbeck: with new book ? if so no05:27
sid77Italian howto are up! (all of them 8)05:32
lulusid77:wow! well done!05:38
sid77they stiil need some work, but are up and ready05:39
hornbeckrcaskey_ , robertj: you around anywhere?05:40
sid77may I group all the translated faq into one page or I've to keep the same orignal structure?05:41
hornbeckplease keep the same structure05:41
hornbeckit makes it easier for people to follow if everything in every language is the same format/structure05:42
hornbeckat least I think so05:42
hornbeckyou may post to the list05:42
sid77there is absolutely no problem, I just don't like it (only personal taste 8)05:43
sivangGeorge^Smoko : core team, because we are the ones who are gonna do it eventually.05:50
George^Smokosivang: cool, whats it take to get onto core team, more documentation ?05:53
sivangGeorge^Smoko : ah :) hmm well, this is also a document I am working on currently , at the time being - participation and writing, yes.05:54
George^Smokosivang: cool05:57
George^Smokocya all05:57
hornbeckcan there be <sect3> tags in doc book for a third nest05:59
rcaskey_hornbeck: i'm back now05:59
hornbeckI am working on the docbook stuff now06:01
hornbeckwhat should be included06:01
rcaskey_Digital Camera, Scanner, External Drives06:01
rcaskey_err Yup06:01
=== rcaskey_ thinks..
hornbeckwacom tablets>06:02
hornbeckI live with and am friends with alot of artist06:03
hornbeckthey all use them06:03
hornbeckor is that to advanced06:03
rcaskey_Anything that can be configured and used entirely throough the gui in hoary06:03
hornbeckthat is a big want :-)06:03
hornbeckfor now, Digital cameras, scanner, external drives, printers, and palm pilots06:04
hornbeckand the software to use them06:04
hornbeckI think that is a good start06:04
rcaskey_I think each of those should be three parts06:05
hornbecksuch as?06:05
rcaskey_Configure the Device, Confirm it's showing up, and then use it in a common use scenario06:05
rcaskey_like Plug in thumb drive, check that it show's up in Gnome, open up the device in Gnome.06:05
rcaskey_As the most basic example06:05
hornbeckthat sounds good06:06
rcaskey_for a digital camera it might be "Plug in the camera" "check to see it shows up in hal browser" "install fspot"06:06
hornbeckwhere is hal browser?06:06
rcaskey_under the system config menu06:07
rcaskey_I can't remember what the gui name is for it right now06:07
hornbeckahh device manager06:07
hornbeckso a write up would be06:08
hornbeckPeripherals: Digital Camera * Installing Camera * Insuring Device is Configured * Using Device06:09
rcaskey_yeah, using device would be really light06:10
rcaskey_just a very first steps06:10
rcaskey_or "Plug in gamepad" "Calibrate Joypad" "Use Joypad in Tuxracer"06:11
hornbeckI was just thinking that06:11
hornbeckInstall camera * insure camera is setup * using camera with gphoto06:12
hornbeckwhat is a scanner application?06:12
hornbeckcheck the wiki and see what you think?06:16
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hornbeckrcaskey_: you still around or did you run away?06:57
rcaskey_I ran away but now I'm back06:57
rcaskey_I don't have a scanner so I can't really check06:57
hornbeckgood, did you look at the wiki?06:57
hornbeckif so what do you think06:58
rcaskey_just now looking06:58
rcaskey_I _think_ there will be a nautilus plugin for Gphoto2 in hoary06:59
hornbeckit will still be the default picture program though07:00
rcaskey_Yeah, unless mono + fspot come out of nowhere07:00
hornbeckfspot is still pretty young, but it is nice07:01
hornbeckI think we should keep gphoto as the program07:01
rcaskey_I'm just not sure, I coulnd't care less07:01
hornbeckwell, lets leave it for now07:01
rcaskey_my camera shows up as an external hard drive07:01
rcaskey_and I just drag my pictures07:02
hornbeckmy stand is leave it till we can prove something better for right now07:03
hornbeckas we stand, we have about three months to try and get this mostly done07:03
hornbeckthere is about three times as much stuff now than a week ago07:04
hornbeckso we have alot of writing to do07:04
hornbeckwe have one last section to discuss07:05
hornbeckinstalling hardware07:05
rcaskey_(and the first section)07:06
hornbeckI am for dropping this section as I don't see how it really ties to much into Ubuntu specific07:06
rcaskey_Maybe just call it "Hardware"07:06
rcaskey_the big points are: check the Hardware list to make sure it works07:06
hornbeckwe are covering just about all hardware in other sections in the book07:06
hornbeckwe will go over that in system configuration07:07
hornbeckwith device manager07:07
hornbeckno reason for a whole chapter07:07
rcaskey_maybe we need Hardware Compatability List in #807:07
hornbeckhardware compatability changes to much07:08
rcaskey_it should stay stable for hoary though07:08
hornbeckmaybe a web address in the more information section07:08
hornbeckwe will never know all of the hardware supported though07:08
rcaskey_at least a subsection telling people to read before they buy and to check the list07:08
hornbeckall we have is whats on the wiki and that changes alot07:08
hornbecklets add that to chapter 8 than07:09
hornbecki will agree to that07:09
rcaskey_and let's add Viewing Installed hardware to Common Tasks07:09
hornbecka "Hardware Compatability" section07:10
hornbeckyou will view installed hardware with device manager07:10
hornbeckchapter 707:10
hornbeckwhat you think?07:12
rcaskey_well I was thinking more of a "View Information about Your System"07:13
lulunight all :o)07:13
rcaskey_Does hal device manager show processor speed and ram?07:13
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hornbeckI could see a "view information about your system"07:13
hornbeckI don't see anything like that no07:14
=== rcaskey_ arghs
rcaskey_OSXvncviewer hangs with vino-server :(07:15
hornbeckhoary's system configuration is different than warty's I will have to change that on the wiki07:15
hornbeckthat sucks07:15
hornbeckI updated the wiki to match Hoary items07:17
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=== rcaskey_ returns
hornbeckcheck the wiki07:41
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rcaskey_Let's just rename 4 to Software and have "Software Installation/Removal" and "Keeping up to Date"07:43
hornbeckhave those as sub catagories?07:44
hornbeckthat sounds good07:44
cenerentolahornbeck: have you got time?07:44
hornbecka few minutes yeah07:45
cenerentolado you think im that rude, having used the word "hominid"?07:45
plovshi guys07:46
hornbeckhey plovs07:46
plovscenerentola, that was enrico, who wrote the mail07:46
cenerentolaim talking about the ubuntu-doc ml 07:46
cenerentolaciao plovs...07:46
hornbeckcenerentola: I honestly have no clue what you are talking about07:47
cenerentolai was asking your opinion07:47
cenerentolaso plovs: any hint?07:47
hornbeckhominid: means homosapion07:47
cenerentolawhat i mean is that when i talk to, and maybe i shouldnt, even if i dont know you personally, i feel you07:48
cenerentolalike friends...07:48
hornbeckI don't see a problem with that07:48
cenerentolabecause we're working, someone with more effort, someone with less, for the same thing...07:48
cenerentolaand so it happens that i may use friendly language...07:49
cenerentolaand i see enrico's a complete waste of time, and bits07:49
hornbeckenrico is a good guy07:49
cenerentolai think so07:49
cenerentolai really think so...07:50
hornbeckso I don't know where you might get that07:50
plovscenerentola, it's always better to be nice, ans with jokes, you should be carefull until you know who you joke to, somebody might misunderstand07:50
cenerentolahe said i should not use the word hominid in respect of ubuntu users... well i was chatting to a friend not talking with her majesty the queen07:50
hornbeckwe are all hominid's07:51
cenerentolain a certain way...07:51
cenerentolathat's for relativity... we're all hominid about sth...07:51
rcaskey_we are also congnitive entities07:51
rcaskey_but sometimes we get more specific and say "people"07:51
cenerentolaso i dont really get enrico's reaction...07:51
hornbeckrcaskey_: I updated the software spot07:51
hornbeckwhat email are we talking about?07:52
hornbeckI have to read this07:52
cenerentolakant wouldnt be with you07:52
hornbeckrcaskey_: have you read the svn version of the book?07:52
hornbeckI used the install section from the site07:53
hornbeckwhich covers alot except lacking pictures07:53
rcaskey_nope, put the svn repository up on the web page and Ill grabt it at home tonight07:53
cenerentolaplovs: do you think its necessary to be specific for the novices or not?07:54
hornbeckrcaskey: I added it to the top of the outline page07:55
plovscenerentola, enrico send a good link about target audience, most docs on the wiki are for Advanced beginner or Competent performer, if you write for Novice then you shouls explain more07:56
cenerentolamay i have url?07:56
cenerentolayep moreover i clearly explained it was an italian project...07:56
hornbeckbrb, I have to do the dishes real quick07:56
cenerentolaahh... the comforts of living with mummy...07:57
cenerentolaplovs: most docs are for advanced...07:57
cenerentolaplovs: well i think there should be a little more interest for iper-novice than for advanced or not?07:58
=== cenerentola is away: I'm busy
plovshornbeck, will the book be done in docbook?08:01
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hornbeckplovs: it is already being done in docbook08:05
hornbeckdoes anyone read my email?08:05
plovshornbeck, i didn't check it out yet08:15
hornbeckthats fine08:21
hornbeckI was just joking08:21
hornbeckjoking about everyone not reading my mail08:21
hornbeckeverything else stands08:21
plovshornbeck, will you keep it all in one file?08:33
plovshornbeck, it being your book08:35
hornbeckI am thinking about breaking it up like the faq into separate chapters08:43
hornbeckI just have not really looked into it that much08:43
plovshornbeck, i found it easier to work08:44
hornbeckI just need to figure it out08:44
hornbeckI will read through you faq code and work on it today08:45
hornbeckthe book seems to be growing as in what will be included08:45
hornbeckso I would like to be able to work on one chapter at a time08:45
hornbeckI also have to figure out the make files and stuff08:45
plovshornbeck, i will be around for around an hour so if you need a hand with st let me know08:50
hornbeckplovs: have you done any work to the faq since it has went to my server?08:50
hornbeckyour glue file is faq-guide right?08:51
plovshornbeck, yes08:52
plovshornbeck, and then part{1,2,3}08:53
hornbeckpart1,2,3 link to other files right08:54
plovshornbeck, yes08:56
hornbeckthat is a link currect?08:56
plovshornbeck, defined in faq-guide08:57
hornbeckwhat does the SYSTEM do?08:58
plovshornbeck, no idea, but it does not work without it09:01
hornbeckbrb, work finally calls09:19
hornbeckI am back10:08
ChrisHhornbeck: Just had a VoIP talk with sivan. Worked nicely. :)10:10
hornbeckthrough skype?10:12
ChrisHhornbeck: sipgate.de10:13
ChrisHSkype was a PITA.10:13
ChrisHI think we can cancel the conference. It's all said. :)10:14
hornbeckChrisH, plovs: did you guys relize the faq still says gnome 2.8 user guide10:14
hornbeckthe contents page10:14
ChrisHArgh... yelp still crashes on the document. :(10:15
hornbeckYou are not running sivan's patched version?10:15
hornbeckor are you running warty10:15
hornbeckI fixed it10:16
ChrisHJust warty...10:19
hornbeckahh, I don't have problems with the faq on warty10:19
ChrisHWith yelp? Really? My CPU goes up to 100% and nothing happens.10:19
ChrisHDoes anyone have an idea how I can add "context actions"? I want to have a shell script shrink pictures for email attachments. I'd like to select them, right click on them and select an action I'd introduce.10:20
hornbeckI have no idea10:23
hornbecksorry wrong window10:32
plovsChrisH, copy a  script to your nautilus-scripts folder10:32
ChrisHplovs: let me check10:32
plovsChrisH, there is page in the wiki nautilusscripts or something10:32
ChrisHplovs: Is there a single page that you didn't write? ;)10:33
plovsChrisH, docbookintro?10:35
plovsChrisH, in vim how do i enter 14x the same character?10:35
ChrisHplovs: 14i-   => --------------10:36
sivangplovs : what's that script about?10:36
plovssivang, i'm updating my vimrc10:39
ChrisHplovs: Hmmm. If I put a script into ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts it's still not available in the context menu. Is some gconf entry missing?10:45
ChrisHAh... now I see. X-flag was missing.10:46
plovsChrisH, quite usefull, i use it all the time10:48
ChrisHI still wonder where the actions per mime-type are stored.10:49
ChrisHMy script just makes sense on image objects, that's why.10:49
sivangwhat's that X flag?10:50
ChrisHchmod u+x ...10:51
sivangah that I understand10:51
hornbeckhow do you create a link in docbook?10:51
sivangI thought that was something to do with hacking X10:51
ChrisH<ulink url="http:/...">...</ulink>10:51
ChrisHsivang: You will *never* see *me* hacking *X*10:51
hornbeckI want it to link to another docbook page10:51
hornbecknot include it on the same page10:52
ChrisHokay... let's see10:52
plovsChrisH, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/nautilus-python/10:52
ChrisHsivang: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/link.html10:53
plovsChrisH, the source might help you if i remember right you could use mime-types with it10:53
ChrisHI really need to polish my python skills. But I'm nearly done. "hello world" already worked. :)10:55
sivangChrisH : I'm in the same stage :)10:55
hornbeckI might be able to help with python if you have questions10:55
ChrisHplovs: that does not really say what to do...10:55
ChrisHhornbeck: Teach me Python in 10 minutes, please. :)10:56
plovsChrisH, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/nautilus-python/examples/background-image.py?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=
plovsChrisH, it shows how you can specify wanted mime-types10:57
ChrisHplovs: is it an example for nautilus-scripts? Or an example for mime-type dependant actions?10:57
plovsChrisH, it will put an item in the right-click menu if the mime-type is correct10:58
plovsChrisH, when i tried it it just build10:59
ChrisHplovs: where do you put it?10:59
plovsChrisH, ./configure make install11:00
ChrisHplovs: I mean... do you install the "nautilus-python" package and copy that script somewhere?11:01
=== ChrisH is dumb
plovsChrisH, i build it three months ago, if i remember right it puts some stiff in site-packages and something in /usr/nautils/scripts or something, you have to get it from cvs btw11:02
ChrisHBummer. I hoped there was some clear documentation on it. Have looked around gnome.org already, too.11:03
sivangplovs : what does this script allow you to do?11:04
plovssivang, they're just example scripts that show the python-nautilus bindings (which are quite need as far as i understand it)11:04
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plovsChrisH, johan@gnome.org is the guy who wrote it he is usually on #pygtk and is a very friendly guy, i asked all kinds of dum questions and he didn't flame me once11:06
plovsChrisH, but i would just get it from gnome cvs and try it, it's quite nice11:07
=== ChrisH changes his nick to plovs_ and joins #pygtk :)
plovsChrisH, http://yergler.net/blog/ has packages, halfway down at: Creative Commons support in Gnome11:09
hornbeckwell gentlemen, I am off for the night, I am taking the evening off11:24
hornbecksee you tomorrow11:25
ChrisHhornbeck: me, too... isn't it terribly late at au? :)11:26
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