[12:39] <hornbeck> ok, the router is here!
[12:40] <hornbeck> I will be taking the server down in a few, but just for about five minutes
[12:40] <hornbeck> I will make sure no one is connected, but please don't connect
[12:43] <hornbeck> I'll be back when its done 
[01:44] <hornbeck_> server is still down, my new router is being  a bitch
[01:44] <hornbeck_> just was letting you guys know it may be a few
[01:44] <hornbeck_> bye
[02:41] <hornbeck_> server is back up
[02:42] <sivang> nice
[05:42] <George^Deka> hi all
[05:44] <hornbeck_> hello
[06:03] <hornbeck> robertj: you around?
[06:38] <plovs> morning
[06:59] <hornbeck> morning
[07:00] <hornbeck> well night for me, almost bedtime
[07:01] <hornbeck> speaking of bedtime, goodnight guys
[07:01] <hornbeck> see you in seven hours
[07:02] <plovs> hornbeck, night
[08:35] <trickie> hello
[08:43] <George^Deka> hi trickie
[08:43] <George^Deka> think i might be having a fair few typos my new theme has grey text in the xchat imput box
[08:50] <trickie> George^Deka, i get a few wierd xchat color things sometimes
[08:50] <trickie> George^Deka, how are you?
[10:02] <plovs_work> morning all
[10:03] <lulu> morning :o) 
[10:04] <plovs_work> lulu, what kind of extra details where you talking about yesterday? My info looks pretty complete to my untrained eyes
[10:05] <plovs_work> lulu, or do i need to add exact time of arrival?
[10:07] <lulu> plovs_work: if all info that's needed on the wiki is complete, then u done :o)
[10:09] <plovs_work> lulu, ok, and thanks
[10:11] <plovs_work> lulu, will you send extra info on how to get from the airport to the hotel, how to get to  the conference, etc or use the wiki and ask mako?
[10:12] <ChrisH> moin $ALL
[10:12] <plovs_work> ChrisH, moin
[10:17] <lulu> ploves_work: as more info comes available, it will be posted on the wiki. I know as much as you do at this point :o)
[10:51] <lulu> plovs_work: there is quite a bit of detail on the wiki on Flying In to Barcelona and getting to Mataro....have u seen it?
[11:11] <sivang> morning all!
[11:13] <lulu> sivang:hiya
[11:14] <sivang> lulu : Hi :)
[11:18] <lulu> sivang: Introducing Gnom application installer...is that the news item?
[11:18] <sivang> lulu : yes :)
[11:18] <sivang> lulu : how did you find it?
[11:19] <lulu> good - ok so it's there - and it's visible, but not yet published. Are you still working on it? Do you want to put links to further information in it?
[11:19] <lulu> sivang:it's in the contents page under Ubuntu section.
[11:20] <lulu> sivang: did u add the large plone folder?
[11:20] <sivang> lulu : ok, leave it unpublished. I need to add to it, telling about it's stableness and make the console code look as 'code' :)
[11:21] <lulu> sivang: ok - you publish it when you are ready and the news portlet should then appear on the page.
[11:21] <sivang> lulu : to the docs/support section? I experimented with it, and then couldn't remove it. If you can, I would appriciate it.
[11:21] <sivang> lulu : ok thanks, sorry for not opening a bug - was way unwell eventually yesterday, and among other things I had to do..well, firgured I opened it today , but good to know it's already fixed! thank you!
[11:22] <lulu> sivang: you want news/announcements to appear in the documentation section, or in every page ont he site?
[11:23] <sivang> lulu : I would love it to appear on the main page, so people won't miss our news when not entering the support/doc section :)
[11:24] <lulu> sivang:news items will appear as a portlet on every page.
[11:24] <lulu> sivang: did u create the large plone folder?
[11:24] <lulu> and empty folder?
[11:26] <lulu> it has nothing in it and no name, so I'm going to delete it.
[11:27] <sivang> lulu : ok, thanks
[11:28] <sivang> lulu : :) --> <sivang> lulu : to the docs/support section? I experimented with it, and then couldn't remove it. If you can, I would appriciate it.
[11:32] <lulu> sivang: oh - sorry - it was not appearing in that section at all...I misunderstood you - apologies mate - all removed and looking good. :o)
[11:33] <sivang> lulu : thanks
[11:37] <plovs> sivang, hi, how are you today?
[11:40] <plovs> lulu, yes, thanks i saw that i was just wondering how to get from the hotel to the Tecnocampus, and will you send some info on the hotel as well? (i'm just excited then i always ask lots of questions)
[11:42] <lulu> plovs: great you are excited. The tecnocampus is a short walk from the hotel, but daily venues and the schedule are still being finalised.
[11:45] <plovs> lulu, ok, thanks
[11:45] <lulu> plovs: np :o)
[12:25] <cenerentola> sorry...
[12:25] <cenerentola> ive got an how-to on how to bypass error 21 with ubuntu live cd...
[12:25] <cenerentola> should i upload it to the wiki? which section in?
[12:32] <sivang> cenerentola : Room101, add something to note it's related to the live cd :)
[12:32] <sivang> cenerentola : buena sierra btw :)
[12:32] <cenerentola> ....noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[12:32] <cenerentola> spanish is not italian... everybody.... let's say "Buona Sera"
[12:32] <cenerentola> ... even if its noon...
[12:33] <sid77> rofl
[12:33] <sid77> cenerentola, it's noon only here...
[12:33] <cenerentola> aroftl, *also*?
[12:34] <cenerentola> ...ahhh... 
[12:34] <sid77> LOL
[12:34] <sid77> cenerentola, try with /whois ubuntu-it ;)
[12:36] <sivang> cenerentola : ah sorry
[12:36] <sivang> cenerentola : but thanks for the document btw!
[12:36] <cenerentola> sivang: merely joking
[12:37] <cenerentola> ok ill tell you, before the ml, other projects i take care of in my mind
[12:37] <sivang> ml = mailing list?
[12:38] <cenerentola> since i started dreaming of an UbuntuLinux ITALIA thing... [ml -> yes] 
[12:38] <cenerentola> loads of projects came up while dreaming at night...
[12:38] <cenerentola> 1) im setting up a framework for "how-to development"...
[12:39] <cenerentola> ---excursus starts here---
[12:39] <cenerentola> since with btlug we're pushing ubuntu in schools, public administrations, voluntary associations... so on
[12:40] <cenerentola> we HAVE the need of supporting REAL, NEVER HEARD OF, computer-HOMINIDES
[12:40] <cenerentola> like clerks, literature teachers, and so on...
[12:40] <cenerentola> ---excursus is over---
[12:41] <sivang> great
[12:41] <cenerentola> so i thought that itd be a nice thing to create [im talking about Ubuntulinux italia] 
[12:41] <cenerentola> a framework to produce how-to:
[12:42] <cenerentola> [in current language]  because of the fact that every installation is different from machine to machine [and if the hominides read an howto where dpkg is used, thi is more and more true] 
[12:44] <cenerentola> i thought of a place [: like subversion]  where i can upload an how-to and all the doc-team members can add their how-to following theyre experience to create an hypertext like "if what appear is -xyz- click here otherwise if no exceptions are being thrown click-here
[12:44] <cenerentola> ..
[12:45] <cenerentola> so not a mere how-to that, by definition, CAN'T cover all the possible aspects, that is WAYS, of an installation...
[12:46] <cenerentola> but an hypertext that can follow you in any circumstances [or at least those lived by doc-team-members] ..
[12:46] <cenerentola> id love to hear you understand me, because i know my english hasnt been beautiful: im talkin in italian with my auntie, chatting spanish with a friend... and im messing all the thing up
[12:49] <sivang> cenerentola : but isn't that what the wiki is for ? :)
[12:50] <cenerentola> well italian hominides cant speak english...
[12:50] <sivang> there will be multi lingual support , it's being worked on.
[12:50] <cenerentola> and a wiki is not portable: i cant save it on my hd... a pdf created with a script does the thing
[12:51] <cenerentola> or not?
[12:54] <cenerentola> ??'
[12:54] <cenerentola> hey dont leave me alone.. im afraid of the dark ;)
[12:55] <sivang> well, there are plans to have some of it available off line, I suggest you post your ideas to the list, see what people say.
[12:55] <cenerentola> so ure not approving it... ok... ;)
[12:58] <sivang> it's not anything like that, there isn't a "one" who approves things. This is a community project, therefor community concencus must be reached before starting anything or doing anything which is more than cosmetic changes, so it can be discussed among community members. It's just how things are done here...try to understand.
[12:59] <cenerentola> mmm... yep i was talking personally...
[12:59] <cenerentola> if you liked it...
[01:00] <cenerentola> ex: i like cameron diaz, but you may not
[01:00] <cenerentola> ...Einstein's General Relativity...
[01:01] <cenerentola> it all depends from the point of view... i was just asking yours... ehehe;)
[01:09] <cenerentola> ciao
[01:27] <plovs_work> hi guys
[01:29] <lulu> hi again and Hi George.. I owe u an email..apologies for the delay...
[01:30] <sivang> up plovsy!
[01:30] <sivang> gemme five!
[01:30] <sivang> :)
[01:31] <plovs_work> sivang, how's it going?
[01:33] <sivang> pretty fine I guess, making sketches for pages etc..
[01:34] <George^Deka> hi all
[01:34] <George^Deka> lulu: thats cool i have been busy too
[01:34] <George^Deka> hi sivang
[01:34] <sivang> hey there, George^Deka
[01:34] <George^Deka> hi plovs
[01:34] <plovs_work> hi George^Deka
[01:44] <lulu> hornbeck: around?
[02:26] <hornbeck> morning
[02:31] <sivang> morning
[02:31] <hornbeck> hey, hows it going
[02:32] <plovs_work> hornbeck, morning, very fine
[02:33] <hornbeck> plovs_work: I like openbsd :-)
[02:33] <hornbeck> sivang: do people really need acceptence for a wiki page?
[02:34] <plovs_work> hornbeck, acceptance?
[02:34] <hornbeck> his new email
[02:34] <sivang> hornbeck : s/accaptance/submission
[02:34] <hornbeck> Preliminaries for establishing a work acceptence process:
[02:34] <sivang> accaptment may not be the best word here,
[02:35] <hornbeck> that is the thing with a wiki though is you can just add a page where you see fit
[02:35] <plovs_work> sivang, atm people just drop it in the wiki
[02:35] <hornbeck> it will deter people if they have to write a email along with writing the page
[02:35] <hornbeck> I  know I will not remember to post for every new page
[02:35] <sivang> lulu also suggested that
[02:36] <sivang> it would enable us to keep track,
[02:36] <sivang> and the neatly link pages up
[02:36] <hornbeck> than it needs not to be a wiki than
[02:37] <plovs_work> sivang, i am not for or against anything yet, but this deeats the whole purpose of the wiki
[02:37] <plovs_work> defeats
[02:37] <sivang> hmm, ok, drop the approval nature that is implied,
[02:37] <plovs_work> sivang, or do you mean how to get your doc incorperated in the main docs?
[02:37] <sivang> just the keep track infrastructure
[02:37] <sivang> both
[02:37] <sivang> for both offline / wiki 
[02:38] <hornbeck> I could see this for a main doc that is offline or something
[02:38] <plovs_work> sivang, still does not work with wiki, wiki is non-linear ub structure
[02:38] <plovs_work> s/ub/in
[02:39] <sivang> so wiki by nature is chaos ?:)
[02:39] <plovs_work> sivang, yes
[02:39] <hornbeck> sivang: my nature wiki is very chaos
[02:39] <hornbeck> it is anarchy in its finist :-)
[02:39] <sivang> hey again lulu
[02:39] <sivang> we're discussing my last post to ML
[02:40] <hornbeck> hey lulu, you was looking for me?
[02:43] <plovs_work> sivang, i like your points, but have a problem with seeing how ti implement it
[02:43] <plovs_work> sivang, i like: Establish the documentation testing team
[02:43] <plovs_work> sivang, problem: no infrastructure/no people
[02:44] <plovs_work> sivang, i like: contacting a person
[02:44] <lulu> hornbeck: hiya - I'm responding to the license email you sent from dev...in a bit...
[02:44] <plovs_work> sivang, problem: the change links are *still* broken 
[02:44] <sivang> change links ?
[02:45] <plovs_work> sivang, in the recent-changes page, who made the change
[02:46] <sivang> oh
[02:46] <plovs_work> sivang, svn-server needs to be integrated with the doc-team, but first we need to make sure it works :-)
[02:46] <hornbeck> I sent a license email?
[02:48] <hornbeck> sivang: I sent a reply to your post with my thoughts
[02:48] <plovs_work> sivang, if we want something like this then we need to hack zwiki
[02:49] <sivang> thanks hornbeck
[02:54] <lulu> sivang: did you cc the list?
[02:54] <sivang> lulu : yes
[02:54] <lulu> tx :o)
[02:59] <hornbeck> hey robert
[03:00] <plovs_work> sivang, added my 2c
[03:01] <rcaskey_> heya
[03:01] <sivang> plovs_work : thanks
[03:05] <George^Deka> plovs_work: got your gmail pop3 activated yet - got mine today but dont know if i will use it kind of like the confort of having everything on the server
[03:07] <hornbeck> rcaskey_: you got time to work on the index?
[03:07] <plovs_work> George^Deka, got it today, i'll test it first
[03:07] <hornbeck> got my pop access also :-)
[03:07] <George^Deka> plovs_work: in response to your email how about when something becomes final it is moved to docbook and off the wiki, and them imported back into support and we then maintain it on the svn server
[03:08] <George^Deka> plovs_work: wiki should only be for draft docs, then they move to svn
[03:09] <George^Deka> and sorry i have not had any progress yet on a ReST to Docbook converter
[03:09] <George^Deka> i will address this all in a email but fleshing it out here first
[03:09] <sivang> We have some people for doc test team,
[03:10] <sivang> see http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/DocumentationTeam
[03:12] <plovs_work> George^Deka, agree with you, send it to the ml, so we can see everybodies opinion formally
[03:13] <George^Deka> sivang: 1) why use the old wiki  2) should we not update the list of core team
[03:13] <George^Deka> plovs: will do
[03:18] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: yeah
[03:18] <sivang> George^Deka : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/documentation <-- seen this?
[03:19] <rcaskey_> I looked at "XP in a Nutshell"
[03:20] <rcaskey_> it's a 640 page reference
[03:20] <George^Deka> sivang: a while ago checking now - is the one on the wiki removed or pointing to the support page
[03:21] <sivang> should be used anyhow
[03:21] <sivang> so no care was taken to point
[03:21] <sivang> it
[03:21] <sivang> however, this might apply for some old new news item :)
[03:21] <sivang> lulu : what do you think?
[03:24] <lulu> sivang: sorry - the question is?
[03:24] <hornbeck> rcaskey: yes, linux in a nutshell is very long also
[03:25] <lulu> sivang: updating the core team on the wiki or on the web?
[03:25] <sivang> lulu : George^Deka pointed that maybe we should have something very apparent to tell old wiki is not longer used, neither should be looked 
[03:25] <George^Deka> sivang: i have this bad problem of allways looking on the wiki not the static site - my bad i know
[03:25] <rcaskey_> That kind of reminds me of the manual I had from Progeny
[03:26] <rcaskey_> great toilet reading but otherwise useless
[03:26] <rcaskey_> also "Redhat Linux Unleashed 2"
[03:26] <plovs_work> duplicate info should be removed, see ml
[03:26] <hornbeck> rcaskey: I would like a useful, but still kinda short
[03:26] <hornbeck> rcaskey: not 500 pages
[03:26] <rcaskey_> It had chapters on Linux, Perl, X development in C, X in C++, it was just so broad as to be useless
[03:26] <hornbeck> right
[03:27] <hornbeck> well, we have a good outline
[03:27] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: I like the direction we are going in
[03:27] <rcaskey_> I say we just flesh out what we have
[03:27] <hornbeck> yes
[03:27] <hornbeck> let me pull it up
[03:27] <lulu> George^Deka: The old wiki will be moved. James Troup has promised to do it this week. It's been frozen. I can get a message put up that it is no longer in use too, if needed.
[03:27] <rcaskey_> thats LearningUbuntuOutline on the wiki for anyone else interested
[03:28] <hornbeck> hehe, I am still looking at Proposed Index
[03:28] <George^Deka> lulu: i didnt actually say that sivang put words in my mouth - but yeah its cool
[03:28] <hornbeck> ok I changed to the real one
[03:28] <George^Deka> check ML my reply
[03:28] <lulu> George^Deka:np - 
[03:29] <rcaskey_> Do you want me working on the proposed index?
[03:29] <hornbeck> rcaskey: no, lets stick to LearningUbuntuOutline
[03:29] <rcaskey_> oky
[03:29] <hornbeck> rcaskey: I think system configuration is a nice starting point for us right now
[03:29] <hornbeck> what would you like to see in that
[03:30] <hornbeck> I think, network, dial up
[03:30] <hornbeck> most things in Computer -> Sytem Configuration
[03:30] <hornbeck> go over each Item
[03:31] <George^Deka> i think samba, if i ever get lots of spare time i am going to investigate making a addon to the properties of folders for samba sharing in python of cource
[03:31] <rcaskey_> horn: give me a second
[03:31] <hornbeck> ok
[03:31] <rcaskey_> I'm at work and need to install vnc on my ubuntu machine
[03:31] <hornbeck> you don't have Ubuntu at work????????
[03:31] <hornbeck> how dare you :-)
[03:32] <hornbeck> I am getting paid right now, I am sitting at home, and I don't have a job for anothe hour :-)
[03:32] <rcaskey_> horn: who do you work for?
[03:32] <hornbeck> I work for a company called AA Computer Services
[03:32] <hornbeck> I am a Sysadmin
[03:32] <rcaskey_> need anymore ;)
[03:33] <hornbeck> but I do most my work from home
[03:33] <George^Deka> hornbeck: we are not all as lucky as you some are in native winblows enviroments - but maybe if i recompiled my kernel cause we are totally terminal services
[03:33] <hornbeck> nope just hired three people
[03:33] <hornbeck> George^Deka: I work on windows all day long, but the laptop comes with me so I always have linux near by
[03:34] <hornbeck> I also have alot of down time
[03:34] <hornbeck> so I can program
[03:34] <George^Deka> hornbeck: we are not all so lucky to own a laptop
[03:34] <hornbeck> George^Deka: where there is a will there is a way
[03:34] <rcaskey_> doh, actually gotta work
[03:34] <hornbeck> you have to be very motivated to suceed and get the things you want
[03:34] <rcaskey_> brb in 2 min
[03:34] <hornbeck> ok
[03:35] <sivang> George^Deka : this has already been done by gnome-system-tools, on hoary it's under Applications - > system - > sahres
[03:35] <sivang> or somethignliek that
[03:35] <George^Deka> sivang: well im on warty and i cant see it
[03:35] <hornbeck> sivang: thank you for that, I did not know that was there :-)
[03:36] <sivang> well, I've recently become close to it's developer so I know stuff :)
[03:36] <hornbeck> sivang: it will not take my password though
[03:37] <George^Deka> found a package on warty
[03:39] <George^Deka> well now i realise, gnome-sys-tools is in warty just didnt have the shares part
[03:39] <sivang> yes
[03:39] <sivang> that's why I Said it's only on hoary currently
[03:39] <sivang> :)
[03:40] <George^Deka> sivang: thought maybe gnome-system-tools may have only been added to def desktop for hoary - i really need to install hoary oneday
[03:41] <George^Deka> sivang: anything else cool out of interest
[03:41] <sivang> yes you should many nice thing..
[03:41] <sivang> Add/Remove programs menu
[03:41] <sivang> :)
[03:41] <sivang> out of the world cool
[03:41] <sivang> one click install
[03:43] <hornbeck> rcaskey_: I have to run out, I will be back soon
[03:45] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: hehe, ok
[03:45] <rcaskey_> see you then
[03:45] <hornbeck> well, are you back real quick?
[03:46] <rcaskey_> I am
[03:46] <hornbeck> ok, I have a few
[03:46] <hornbeck> on system configuration, how do you feel about just doing a write up for each in the system configuration menu
[03:46] <hornbeck> that way nothing is left out of that?
[03:46] <rcaskey_> I think that would be the way to do it
[03:46] <hornbeck> ok
[03:47] <hornbeck> what are your ideas for Peripherals, and installing hardware
[03:47] <hornbeck> installing hardware is supposed to just happen, with project utopia
[03:47] <hornbeck> I don't really know what to put there
[03:47] <rcaskey_> Hardware should give an idea of what is and isn't supported basically
[03:47] <hornbeck> hmm
[03:48] <hornbeck> we could be way off on that though
[03:48] <hornbeck> if we list some stuff but that stuff becomes supported by release it would be bad
[03:48] <George^Deka> sivang: because i am only on dialup now not going to get hoary just yet - but do you were i might be able to get some screenies of add/remove programs
[03:48] <hornbeck> people may not try because we say it is not supported
[03:49] <rcaskey_> I think we just need to keep in touch with the list and keep it updated as hoary progresses
[03:49] <rcaskey_> any last minute additions can't be teseted enough to be supported in any real sense anyway
[03:49] <hornbeck> how about "Configuring Hardware" instead
[03:49] <hornbeck> it can include, video cards, sound cards and such
[03:49] <hornbeck> sounds alittle better to me
[03:49] <rcaskey_> Sounds awkward I think
[03:50] <rcaskey_> and Video card configuration should be a pointer over to System Configuration
[03:50] <hornbeck> true
[03:50] <hornbeck> I think Installing Hardware just makes it sound like we are going to walk them through installing a new sound card, from cracking the case on
[03:51] <plovs_work> i am using gmail-pop forwarding now and it is nice
[03:54] <hornbeck> man the wiki is slow
[03:54] <hornbeck> seems to get slower everyday
[03:54] <George^Deka> just read on the gnome-sys-tools page something about gnome control center - what is that ? similar to the KDE one (as some may know this is my first experiance with gnome in years like RH 5 or 6 when it was just a little baby)
[03:54] <George^Deka> hornbeck: you can say that again
[03:55] <plovs_work> George^Deka, just type gnome-control-center
[03:55] <plovs_work> George^Deka, and you'll see
[03:55] <plovs_work> hornbeck, soon we'll be working backwards
[03:56] <hornbeck> plovs: yes
[03:56] <plovs_work> do you guys have spam-filtering in evolution?
[03:56] <hornbeck> I don't think I do
[03:56] <hornbeck> I have never set it up
[03:56] <plovs_work> we need a howto on that, the faq question is too short
[03:56] <hornbeck> ok
[03:57] <hornbeck> I can add that to my todo list
[03:57] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: on the other hand, I think some people might expect that, and that it's appropriate to have a section that points them to their motherboard/system manual
[03:57] <hornbeck> I think that may be out of our scoop
[03:58] <hornbeck> recheck the wiki page
[03:58] <hornbeck> also System Configuration has Synaptic in it
[03:59] <George^Deka> plovs_work: oh so thats all, at least it shows me some hidden stuff not in the menus, thought it might be like the ultra cool kde one
[03:59] <hornbeck> that takes care of Adding and Removing programs, what do you want to do about that
[03:59] <hornbeck> George^Deka: Whats KDE ?
[03:59] <hornbeck> :-)
[03:59] <rcaskey_> horn: no synaptic
[03:59] <rcaskey_> gnome-app-install or whatever it's called
[03:59] <George^Deka> plovs_work: the FAQ is incorrect anyone all of the menus are in different places in my version (warty PR, still aint upgraded)
[04:00] <hornbeck> why no synaptic
[04:00] <hornbeck> synaptic is how people will be installing software
[04:00] <hornbeck> it is in the system configuration menu
[04:00] <hornbeck> we cannot skip something that is right out in front of people
[04:00] <rcaskey_> Horneck: I wouldn't be suprised if it went away for Hoary
[04:00] <hornbeck> says who?
[04:01] <George^Deka> hornbeck: you j/k'ing right - well i was using it until 3 weeks ago
[04:01] <rcaskey_> well gnope-app-install is being custom developed for hoary
[04:01] <hornbeck> George: yes I was
[04:01] <plovs_work> George^Deka, i'll do some research, and it's sad but the kde one is better
[04:01] <hornbeck> if we can see that synaptic is not going to be there than yes we can leave it out
[04:02] <plovs_work> hornbeck, there is a pretty good synaptic howto in yelp
[04:02] <hornbeck> but if it remains in the system configuration menu than we have to add something on it
[04:02] <rcaskey_> We will have to ask. That's why I left out the keeping up to date section as well, there is supposed to be a software update utility
[04:02] <George^Deka> plovs_work: i know, everything else pretty much in gnome is better
[04:02] <rcaskey_> yeah, we can still have it
[04:02] <rcaskey_> it just can be targeted towards a little more advanced user
[04:02] <hornbeck> how about we leave it only in the system configuration section
[04:03] <plovs_work> George^Deka, well, scripting on kde is way better (or better you can script kde, you cannot script gnome)
[04:03] <hornbeck> the adding removing software will focus on Gnome-App-Install
[04:04] <rcaskey_> yyeah
[04:04] <hornbeck> ok
[04:05] <hornbeck> rcaskey: think about peripherals, and I have to run to a job real quick
[04:05] <hornbeck> I will be back in about a hour
[04:05] <rcaskey_> oky, see you when I get back
[04:05] <rcaskey_> George: it's in hoary
[04:06] <rcaskey_> and it's very unfinished
[04:06] <rcaskey_> so nothing great to look at
[04:06] <George^Deka> plovs_work: true, and adding extra componets etc to kde is much more of a breeze. eg kparts, add to properties panel etc
[04:08] <George^Deka> can anyone tell me what does ubuntu use by default oss or alsa ?? cause i just noticed im using oss
[04:22] <plovs> George^Deka, interesting that the kde framework is so much better but i find the desktop in all worse
[04:24] <plovs> George^Deka, why don't you use apt-get?
[04:26] <George^Deka> plovs: i feel the same about kde, i do use apt-get why would u think i dont -- i will never use a non apt-get distro
[04:34] <plovs> George^Deka, too bad about scripting though, apple-script would be nice to have on gnome
[04:34] <plovs> lulu, are people working  on getting faster servers?
[04:36] <lulu> plovs: I am working on optimising plone and getting a ZEO cluster going.
[04:37] <George^Deka> plovs: i don't know apple-script would assume it is easy it would be great if we had a macro recorder like apple does. Now that makes writing scripts so dead simple. personally i would like to see python or vbscript in gnome (only vb script cause i know it)
[04:37] <plovs> lulu, nice and thanks, things are really slooow atm, can we somehow see how many hits the server gets? and can we see how many hits a certain page gets?
[04:38] <George^Deka> plovs: what made you think i dont use apt-get ?
[04:38] <plovs> George^Deka,  is dying for screenies of gnome-app-install i hate synaptic command line all the way 
[04:38] <plovs> George^Deka, synaptic command line, and i thought, eeeew
[04:39] <George^Deka> plovs: i get you now, well i use apt-get from command line, and im on dial-up so no hoary for me
[04:42] <George^Deka> lulu: i know i have seen it somewhere before but what do you actually do at canonical
[04:42] <cenerentola> ciao
[04:42] <cenerentola> lulu: u know i love you?
[04:45] <lulu> George^Deka: who wants to know! :o)
[04:46] <lulu> George^Deka: lots of things! Primarily in charge of the websites...
[04:47] <cenerentola> and hows the linguaplone thing?
[04:50] <George^Deka> lulu: i want to know! hehehe, was thinking of a question to see if you might be one to pose it to.
[04:51] <lulu> George^Deka: pose it and if I can't answer it, I'll find someone who can :o)
[04:51] <George^Deka> lulu: then i forgot now i rememebered, re my email re doc acceptance process - what would the feasability be like in getting it done (the bugzilla part)
[04:51] <lulu> cenerentola: working on it
[04:52] <lulu> George^Deka: been away...let me check the email and get back to you....
[04:53] <George^Deka> lulu: understable your a busy girl/woman/lady (which one fits you best ? :) )
[04:54] <lulu> George^Deka: all 3 is fine :o)....
[04:55] <cenerentola> rotfl sex-bomb
[04:55] <George^Deka> cenerentola: lol, but we need confermation of that
[04:55] <hornbeck> I'm back
[04:56] <cenerentola> you who?
[04:56] <hornbeck> rcaskey: you still here?
[04:58] <George^Deka> cenerentola: of lulu=sex-bomb
[04:59] <cenerentola> u...
[04:59] <sivang> George^Deka : already available, under "Dcoumentation" tag in bugzilla
[05:01] <George^Deka> sivang: really, ummm
[05:01] <sivang> George^Deka : you can already enter documentation bugs in bugzilla, see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3353
[05:02] <hornbeck> tech meeting is starting
[05:05] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Hi... aren't you involved in the "nutshell" project?
[05:05] <hornbeck> I think :-)
[05:06] <hornbeck> we are thinking of making the Ubuntu book the Nutshell project
[05:06] <hornbeck> have you seen the new outline?
[05:06] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I just found a new posting on -doc@ and wondered about what goes into the Wiki, the FAQ or "the book".
[05:06] <ChrisH> hornbeck: No, I haven't. I just heard from sivang that there is such a project going on.
[05:07] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I wildly imagined an "Ubuntu Reference" for newbies and administrators that would contain more cleanly written sections that fit into each other than the current FAQ does.
[05:07] <hornbeck> ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LearningUbuntuOutline
[05:07] <hornbeck> check that out, it is not done by far
[05:07] <hornbeck> rcaskey_ and I are working on it
[05:08] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Very good. The TOC looks great already.
[05:08] <hornbeck> it will get better
[05:10] <ChrisH> Just wondered who is working on it. Didn't mean to "interfere" with it though. :)
[05:11] <lulu> George^Deka: Bugzilla - adding Documentation bugs, as Sivan said, is already up there. There is a workflow in plone for approvals, but it does get complicated, so we've stuck to the simple one....
[05:11] <lulu> George^Deka: perhaps when a doc is ready for review, it goes into Bugzilla and when considered ready for upload onto the site, it gets moved and bug is closed....
[05:12] <hornbeck> ChrisH: you are not interfering at all
[05:14] <George^Deka> lulu: yes that sounds good, maybe this of cource will have to get discussed more and prob voted on, we use bugzilla as a workflow thingy. Cause i think thier is huge advantages for bugzilal with +r and +sr then pendingupload
[05:16] <George^Deka> hornbeck: you wanna reply to the new mail on the ML - another book proposal
[05:16] <hornbeck> I will take a look
[05:17] <hornbeck> I am not seeing it yet? did you send to -doc?
[05:17] <George^Deka> not by me, someone else
[05:17] <George^Deka> yeah its on -doc
[05:17] <hornbeck> ohh I see it than
[05:17] <George^Deka> sweet as
[05:19] <lulu> George^Deka:sounds good!
[05:26] <George^Smoko> sivang: tommorow if its okay with you i will make a revised proposal, for voting on. when it comes to voting is it everone in doc team or only core ? 
[05:26] <hornbeck> George: I replyed
[05:27] <George^Smoko> hornbeck: cool
[05:27] <hornbeck> are you one of the people involved?
[05:27] <George^Smoko> hornbeck: with new book ? if so no
[05:28] <hornbeck> ok
[05:32] <sid77> Italian howto are up! (all of them 8)
[05:38] <lulu> sid77:wow! well done!
[05:39] <sid77> they stiil need some work, but are up and ready
[05:40] <hornbeck> rcaskey_ , robertj: you around anywhere?
[05:41] <sid77> may I group all the translated faq into one page or I've to keep the same orignal structure?
[05:41] <hornbeck> please keep the same structure
[05:42] <sid77> uh
[05:42] <sid77> ok
[05:42] <hornbeck> it makes it easier for people to follow if everything in every language is the same format/structure
[05:42] <hornbeck> at least I think so
[05:42] <hornbeck> you may post to the list
[05:43] <sid77> ok
[05:43] <sid77> there is absolutely no problem, I just don't like it (only personal taste 8)
[05:50] <sivang> George^Smoko : core team, because we are the ones who are gonna do it eventually.
[05:53] <George^Smoko> sivang: cool, whats it take to get onto core team, more documentation ?
[05:54] <sivang> George^Smoko : ah :) hmm well, this is also a document I am working on currently , at the time being - participation and writing, yes.
[05:57] <George^Smoko> sivang: cool
[05:57] <George^Smoko> cya all
[05:57] <George^Smoko> nite
[05:57] <sid77> 'night
[05:57] <sivang> night!
[05:59] <hornbeck> can there be <sect3> tags in doc book for a third nest
[05:59] <rcaskey_> hornbeck: i'm back now
[06:00] <hornbeck> good
[06:01] <hornbeck> I am working on the docbook stuff now
[06:01] <hornbeck> Peripherals
[06:01] <hornbeck> what should be included
[06:01] <rcaskey_> Digital Camera, Scanner, External Drives
[06:01] <hornbeck> good
[06:01] <hornbeck> printers?
[06:01] <rcaskey_> Yu
[06:01] <rcaskey_> err Yup
[06:02] <rcaskey_> Palms
[06:02] <hornbeck> wacom tablets>
[06:03] <hornbeck> I live with and am friends with alot of artist
[06:03] <hornbeck> they all use them
[06:03] <hornbeck> or is that to advanced
[06:03] <rcaskey_> Anything that can be configured and used entirely throough the gui in hoary
[06:03] <hornbeck> that is a big want :-)
[06:04] <hornbeck> for now, Digital cameras, scanner, external drives, printers, and palm pilots
[06:04] <hornbeck> and the software to use them
[06:04] <hornbeck> I think that is a good start
[06:05] <rcaskey_> I think each of those should be three parts
[06:05] <hornbeck> such as?
[06:05] <rcaskey_> Configure the Device, Confirm it's showing up, and then use it in a common use scenario
[06:05] <rcaskey_> like Plug in thumb drive, check that it show's up in Gnome, open up the device in Gnome.
[06:05] <rcaskey_> As the most basic example
[06:05] <hornbeck> ok
[06:06] <hornbeck> that sounds good
[06:06] <rcaskey_> for a digital camera it might be "Plug in the camera" "check to see it shows up in hal browser" "install fspot"
[06:06] <hornbeck> where is hal browser?
[06:07] <rcaskey_> under the system config menu
[06:07] <rcaskey_> I can't remember what the gui name is for it right now
[06:07] <hornbeck> ahh device manager
[06:08] <hornbeck> so a write up would be
[06:09] <hornbeck> Peripherals: Digital Camera * Installing Camera * Insuring Device is Configured * Using Device
[06:10] <rcaskey_> yeah, using device would be really light
[06:10] <rcaskey_> just a very first steps
[06:10] <hornbeck> yeah
[06:11] <rcaskey_> or "Plug in gamepad" "Calibrate Joypad" "Use Joypad in Tuxracer"
[06:11] <hornbeck> I was just thinking that
[06:12] <hornbeck> Install camera * insure camera is setup * using camera with gphoto
[06:12] <hornbeck> what is a scanner application?
[06:16] <hornbeck> check the wiki and see what you think?
[06:57] <hornbeck> rcaskey_: you still around or did you run away?
[06:57] <rcaskey_> I ran away but now I'm back
[06:57] <rcaskey_> I don't have a scanner so I can't really check
[06:57] <hornbeck> good, did you look at the wiki?
[06:58] <hornbeck> if so what do you think
[06:58] <rcaskey_> just now looking
[06:59] <rcaskey_> I _think_ there will be a nautilus plugin for Gphoto2 in hoary
[06:59] <hornbeck> nice
[07:00] <hornbeck> it will still be the default picture program though
[07:00] <rcaskey_> Yeah, unless mono + fspot come out of nowhere
[07:01] <hornbeck> fspot is still pretty young, but it is nice
[07:01] <hornbeck> I think we should keep gphoto as the program
[07:01] <rcaskey_> I'm just not sure, I coulnd't care less
[07:01] <hornbeck> well, lets leave it for now
[07:01] <rcaskey_> my camera shows up as an external hard drive
[07:02] <rcaskey_> and I just drag my pictures
[07:02] <hornbeck> hmmm
[07:03] <hornbeck> my stand is leave it till we can prove something better for right now
[07:03] <hornbeck> as we stand, we have about three months to try and get this mostly done
[07:04] <hornbeck> there is about three times as much stuff now than a week ago
[07:04] <hornbeck> so we have alot of writing to do
[07:05] <rcaskey_> yeah
[07:05] <hornbeck> we have one last section to discuss
[07:05] <hornbeck> installing hardware
[07:06] <rcaskey_> (and the first section)
[07:06] <hornbeck> I am for dropping this section as I don't see how it really ties to much into Ubuntu specific
[07:06] <rcaskey_> Maybe just call it "Hardware"
[07:06] <rcaskey_> the big points are: check the Hardware list to make sure it works
[07:06] <hornbeck> we are covering just about all hardware in other sections in the book
[07:07] <hornbeck> we will go over that in system configuration
[07:07] <hornbeck> with device manager
[07:07] <hornbeck> no reason for a whole chapter
[07:07] <rcaskey_> maybe we need Hardware Compatability List in #8
[07:08] <hornbeck> hardware compatability changes to much
[07:08] <rcaskey_> it should stay stable for hoary though
[07:08] <hornbeck> maybe a web address in the more information section
[07:08] <hornbeck> we will never know all of the hardware supported though
[07:08] <rcaskey_> at least a subsection telling people to read before they buy and to check the list
[07:08] <hornbeck> all we have is whats on the wiki and that changes alot
[07:09] <hornbeck> lets add that to chapter 8 than
[07:09] <hornbeck> i will agree to that
[07:09] <rcaskey_> and let's add Viewing Installed hardware to Common Tasks
[07:10] <hornbeck> a "Hardware Compatability" section
[07:10] <hornbeck> you will view installed hardware with device manager
[07:10] <hornbeck> chapter 7
[07:12] <hornbeck> what you think?
[07:13] <rcaskey_> well I was thinking more of a "View Information about Your System"
[07:13] <lulu> night all :o)
[07:13] <hornbeck> night
[07:13] <rcaskey_> Does hal device manager show processor speed and ram?
[07:13] <hornbeck> I could see a "view information about your system"
[07:14] <hornbeck> I don't see anything like that no
[07:15] <rcaskey_> OSXvncviewer hangs with vino-server :(
[07:15] <hornbeck> hoary's system configuration is different than warty's I will have to change that on the wiki
[07:15] <hornbeck> that sucks
[07:17] <hornbeck> I updated the wiki to match Hoary items
[07:41] <hornbeck> ok
[07:41] <hornbeck> check the wiki
[07:43] <rcaskey_> Let's just rename 4 to Software and have "Software Installation/Removal" and "Keeping up to Date"
[07:44] <hornbeck> have those as sub catagories?
[07:44] <rcaskey_> yeah
[07:44] <hornbeck> that sounds good
[07:44] <cenerentola> hornbeck: have you got time?
[07:45] <hornbeck> a few minutes yeah
[07:45] <cenerentola> do you think im that rude, having used the word "hominid"?
[07:46] <hornbeck> what?
[07:46] <plovs> hi guys
[07:46] <hornbeck> hey plovs
[07:46] <plovs> cenerentola, that was enrico, who wrote the mail
[07:46] <cenerentola> im talking about the ubuntu-doc ml 
[07:46] <cenerentola> ciao plovs...
[07:47] <hornbeck> cenerentola: I honestly have no clue what you are talking about
[07:47] <cenerentola> i was asking your opinion
[07:47] <cenerentola> so plovs: any hint?
[07:47] <hornbeck> hominid: means homosapion
[07:48] <cenerentola> what i mean is that when i talk to, and maybe i shouldnt, even if i dont know you personally, i feel you
[07:48] <cenerentola> like friends...
[07:48] <hornbeck> I don't see a problem with that
[07:48] <cenerentola> because we're working, someone with more effort, someone with less, for the same thing...
[07:49] <hornbeck> yeah
[07:49] <cenerentola> and so it happens that i may use friendly language...
[07:49] <cenerentola> and i see enrico's a complete waste of time, and bits
[07:49] <hornbeck> enrico is a good guy
[07:49] <cenerentola> i think so
[07:50] <cenerentola> i really think so...
[07:50] <hornbeck> so I don't know where you might get that
[07:50] <plovs> cenerentola, it's always better to be nice, ans with jokes, you should be carefull until you know who you joke to, somebody might misunderstand
[07:50] <cenerentola> he said i should not use the word hominid in respect of ubuntu users... well i was chatting to a friend not talking with her majesty the queen
[07:51] <hornbeck> we are all hominid's
[07:51] <cenerentola> in a certain way...
[07:51] <cenerentola> yes..
[07:51] <cenerentola> that's for relativity... we're all hominid about sth...
[07:51] <rcaskey_> we are also congnitive entities
[07:51] <rcaskey_> but sometimes we get more specific and say "people"
[07:51] <cenerentola> so i dont really get enrico's reaction...
[07:51] <hornbeck> rcaskey_: I updated the software spot
[07:52] <hornbeck> what email are we talking about?
[07:52] <hornbeck> I have to read this
[07:52] <cenerentola> kant wouldnt be with you

[07:52] <hornbeck> rcaskey_: have you read the svn version of the book?
[07:53] <hornbeck> I used the install section from the site
[07:53] <hornbeck> which covers alot except lacking pictures
[07:53] <rcaskey_> nope, put the svn repository up on the web page and Ill grabt it at home tonight
[07:53] <hornbeck> ok
[07:54] <cenerentola> plovs: do you think its necessary to be specific for the novices or not?
[07:55] <hornbeck> rcaskey: I added it to the top of the outline page
[07:56] <plovs> cenerentola, enrico send a good link about target audience, most docs on the wiki are for Advanced beginner or Competent performer, if you write for Novice then you shouls explain more
[07:56] <cenerentola> may i have url?
[07:56] <cenerentola> yep moreover i clearly explained it was an italian project...
[07:56] <hornbeck> brb, I have to do the dishes real quick
[07:57] <cenerentola> ahh... the comforts of living with mummy...
[07:57] <cenerentola> plovs: most docs are for advanced...
[07:58] <cenerentola> plovs: well i think there should be a little more interest for iper-novice than for advanced or not?
[08:01] <plovs> hornbeck, will the book be done in docbook?
[08:05] <hornbeck> plovs: it is already being done in docbook
[08:05] <hornbeck> 69.155.172.150/book
[08:05] <hornbeck> does anyone read my email?
[08:06] <hornbeck> :-)
[08:15] <plovs> hornbeck, i didn't check it out yet
[08:21] <hornbeck> thats fine
[08:21] <hornbeck> I was just joking
[08:21] <hornbeck> joking about everyone not reading my mail
[08:21] <hornbeck> everything else stands
[08:30] <cenerentola> ...
[08:33] <plovs> hornbeck, will you keep it all in one file?
[08:35] <plovs> hornbeck, it being your book
[08:43] <hornbeck> I am thinking about breaking it up like the faq into separate chapters
[08:43] <hornbeck> I just have not really looked into it that much
[08:44] <plovs> hornbeck, i found it easier to work
[08:44] <hornbeck> right
[08:44] <hornbeck> I just need to figure it out
[08:45] <hornbeck> I will read through you faq code and work on it today
[08:45] <hornbeck> the book seems to be growing as in what will be included
[08:45] <hornbeck> so I would like to be able to work on one chapter at a time
[08:45] <hornbeck> I also have to figure out the make files and stuff
[08:50] <plovs> hornbeck, i will be around for around an hour so if you need a hand with st let me know
[08:50] <hornbeck> plovs: have you done any work to the faq since it has went to my server?
[08:51] <hornbeck> your glue file is faq-guide right?
[08:52] <plovs> hornbeck, yes
[08:53] <plovs> hornbeck, and then part{1,2,3}
[08:54] <hornbeck> part1,2,3 link to other files right
[08:56] <plovs> hornbeck, yes
[08:56] <hornbeck> hmm
[08:56] <hornbeck> &ubuntufaq;
[08:56] <hornbeck> that is a link currect?
[08:57] <hornbeck> correct
[08:57] <plovs> hornbeck, defined in faq-guide
[08:58] <hornbeck> ahh
[08:58] <hornbeck> what does the SYSTEM do?
[09:01] <plovs> hornbeck, no idea, but it does not work without it
[09:02] <hornbeck> ok
[09:19] <hornbeck> brb, work finally calls
[10:08] <hornbeck> I am back
[10:10] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Just had a VoIP talk with sivan. Worked nicely. :)
[10:12] <hornbeck> through skype?
[10:13] <ChrisH> hornbeck: sipgate.de
[10:13] <ChrisH> Skype was a PITA.
[10:13] <hornbeck> cool
[10:14] <ChrisH> I think we can cancel the conference. It's all said. :)
[10:14] <hornbeck> ChrisH, plovs: did you guys relize the faq still says gnome 2.8 user guide
[10:14] <ChrisH> Oops?
[10:14] <hornbeck> the contents page
[10:15] <ChrisH> Argh... yelp still crashes on the document. :(
[10:15] <hornbeck> You are not running sivan's patched version?
[10:15] <hornbeck> or are you running warty
[10:16] <hornbeck> I fixed it
[10:19] <ChrisH> Just warty...
[10:19] <hornbeck> ahh, I don't have problems with the faq on warty
[10:19] <ChrisH> With yelp? Really? My CPU goes up to 100% and nothing happens.
[10:20] <ChrisH> Does anyone have an idea how I can add "context actions"? I want to have a shell script shrink pictures for email attachments. I'd like to select them, right click on them and select an action I'd introduce.
[10:23] <hornbeck> I have no idea
[10:32] <hornbeck> ls
[10:32] <hornbeck> sorry wrong window
[10:32] <plovs> ChrisH, copy a  script to your nautilus-scripts folder
[10:32] <ChrisH> plovs: let me check
[10:32] <plovs> ChrisH, there is page in the wiki nautilusscripts or something
[10:33] <ChrisH> plovs: Is there a single page that you didn't write? ;)
[10:35] <plovs> ChrisH, docbookintro?
[10:35] <plovs> ChrisH, in vim how do i enter 14x the same character?
[10:36] <ChrisH> plovs: 14i-   => --------------
[10:36] <sivang> plovs : what's that script about?
[10:39] <plovs> sivang, i'm updating my vimrc
[10:45] <ChrisH> plovs: Hmmm. If I put a script into ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts it's still not available in the context menu. Is some gconf entry missing?
[10:46] <ChrisH> Ah... now I see. X-flag was missing.
[10:48] <plovs> ChrisH, quite usefull, i use it all the time
[10:49] <ChrisH> I still wonder where the actions per mime-type are stored.
[10:49] <ChrisH> My script just makes sense on image objects, that's why.
[10:50] <sivang> what's that X flag?
[10:51] <ChrisH> execute
[10:51] <sivang> ah
[10:51] <ChrisH> chmod u+x ...
[10:51] <sivang> ah that I understand
[10:51] <hornbeck> how do you create a link in docbook?
[10:51] <sivang> I thought that was something to do with hacking X
[10:51] <sivang> :)
[10:51] <ChrisH> <ulink url="http:/...">...</ulink>
[10:51] <ChrisH> sivang: You will *never* see *me* hacking *X*
[10:51] <hornbeck> I want it to link to another docbook page
[10:52] <hornbeck> not include it on the same page
[10:52] <ChrisH> okay... let's see
[10:52] <plovs> ChrisH, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/nautilus-python/
[10:53] <ChrisH> sivang: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/link.html
[10:53] <plovs> ChrisH, the source might help you if i remember right you could use mime-types with it
[10:53] <ChrisH> tnx
[10:55] <ChrisH> I really need to polish my python skills. But I'm nearly done. "hello world" already worked. :)
[10:55] <sivang> ChrisH : I'm in the same stage :)
[10:55] <hornbeck> I might be able to help with python if you have questions
[10:55] <ChrisH> plovs: that does not really say what to do...
[10:56] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Teach me Python in 10 minutes, please. :)
[10:57] <plovs> ChrisH, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/nautilus-python/examples/background-image.py?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=1.1.1.1
[10:57] <plovs> ChrisH, it shows how you can specify wanted mime-types
[10:57] <ChrisH> plovs: is it an example for nautilus-scripts? Or an example for mime-type dependant actions?
[10:58] <plovs> ChrisH, it will put an item in the right-click menu if the mime-type is correct
[10:59] <plovs> ChrisH, when i tried it it just build
[10:59] <ChrisH> plovs: where do you put it?
[11:00] <plovs> ChrisH, ./configure make install
[11:01] <ChrisH> plovs: I mean... do you install the "nautilus-python" package and copy that script somewhere?
[11:02] <plovs> ChrisH, i build it three months ago, if i remember right it puts some stiff in site-packages and something in /usr/nautils/scripts or something, you have to get it from cvs btw
[11:03] <ChrisH> Bummer. I hoped there was some clear documentation on it. Have looked around gnome.org already, too.
[11:04] <sivang> plovs : what does this script allow you to do?
[11:04] <plovs> sivang, they're just example scripts that show the python-nautilus bindings (which are quite need as far as i understand it)
[11:06] <plovs> ChrisH, johan@gnome.org is the guy who wrote it he is usually on #pygtk and is a very friendly guy, i asked all kinds of dum questions and he didn't flame me once
[11:07] <plovs> ChrisH, but i would just get it from gnome cvs and try it, it's quite nice
[11:09] <plovs> ChrisH, http://yergler.net/blog/ has packages, halfway down at: Creative Commons support in Gnome
[11:24] <hornbeck> well gentlemen, I am off for the night, I am taking the evening off
[11:25] <hornbeck> see you tomorrow
[11:26] <ChrisH> hornbeck: me, too... isn't it terribly late at au? :)
[11:28] <plovs> night