[12:01] <infinity> I'd rather see a "patch to make Replaces work the way it intuitively should" before anything dealing with :"teaching people what Conflicts means". :)
[12:02] <infinity> (ie: if I install B, then A, and B replaces A, the file overlaps should select the file from B, not A)
[12:03] <seb128> if B replaces A and you install B first and the A you get a file conflict
[12:04] <Keybuk> I think what infinity is trying to describe is the fact that dpkg doesn't back-depend
[12:04] <Keybuk> A depends B > 2.0
[12:04] <Keybuk> install A and B 2.0
[12:04] <Keybuk> install B 1.0
[12:04] <Keybuk> works
[12:04] <seb128> hum ? no, doesn't work
[12:04] <Keybuk> sure it does
[12:05] <Keybuk> try it :p
[12:05] <lamont_r> seb128: mind you, it _shouldn't_...
[12:05] <seb128> I mean with apt it doesn't work :)
[12:05] <seb128> I've not tried with dpkg, but I believe you :p
[12:05] <Keybuk> dunno about APT, that's mdz's toy
[12:05] <Keybuk> but dpkg will let you do that
[12:06] <Keybuk> because it only considers the dependencies of the packages you've given it to process
[12:06] <infinity> Keybuk : No, I'm talking actual replaces.
[12:06] <Keybuk> it doesn't go through the system and check that previously-installed packages' dependencies aren't broken
[12:06] <Keybuk> infinity: it's the same bug
[12:06] <Keybuk> when you install A, it doesn't go through the system to see if anything Replaces it.
[12:06] <infinity> Ahh, yeah.
[12:06] <infinity> Same bug probably, then. :)
[12:07] <shaya> Keybuk: so you're saying dpkg needs apt's dependency handeling logic
[12:07] <Keybuk> shaya: no idea whether apt's works or not
[12:07] <infinity> I first noticed it when I used to run Woody systems with the "dselect" package installed from an old sid snapshot.
[12:08] <infinity> If you reinstalled dpkg.deb, it would overwrite /usr/bin/dselect, despite 'dselect' replacing 'dpkg'.
[12:08] <Keybuk> yup
[12:08] <infinity> (Which was irritating, because the newer dselect sucked a lot less)
[12:09] <seb128> BTW time to sleep
[12:09] <seb128> 'night everybody
[12:09] <Keybuk> nite dude
[12:10] <shaya> sleep?
[12:10] <Keybuk> France.
[12:10] <shaya> 5 hours ahead?
[12:10] <shaya> or 6?
[12:11] <Keybuk> 1 hour ahead
[12:11] <Mithrandir> UTC+1, so it's 00:10 here now.
[12:11] <sjoerd> it's 0:11 over here (and in france too)
[12:13] <shaya> Keybuk: I'm an imperialistic washington, DC native, so hence 6 hours ahead (as DC is the center of the world, or so they brainw, I mean taught us as kids)
[12:13] <Keybuk> with such geography, it's amazing the Merkins get *anywhere*
[12:14] <Mithrandir> shaya: giving relative time references based on anything else than UTC gives people headaches. :)
[12:14] <shaya> Mithrandir: but they taught us that EST was the real universal time :)
[12:14] <Keybuk> the Earth is a *spheroid* ... the centre is roughly the same distance from everywhere in a downward direction
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: give or take a few clicks, yes. :)
[12:15] <Keybuk> you can only be "the centre of the world" if you're in a notably crackful, but rather fun, blockbuster of a few years ago
[12:16] <shaya> Keybuk: do you put it pass GWB to try and get there just to say it?
[12:16] <shaya> hmm, just noticed, those initials are also used for the George Washington Bridge
[12:16] <shaya> maybe that's where he was conceived :)
[12:16] <Keybuk> "My fellow Umbrella-stands.  I have decidified to embark on a great and dangerous journey to the centrofold of the Earth."
[01:35] <gicmo> 'evening
[01:36] <jdub> yo gicmo 
[01:37] <jdub> sladen: around?
[01:41] <jdub> gicmo: when sladen is around, we should ask him where it's at :)
[01:41] <Keybuk> jdub: he's awake
[01:43] <jdub> you can't put parameters in /etc/modules, can you?
[01:43] <Keybuk> no
[01:43] <jdub> that's a bummer
[01:43] <Keybuk> actually, I like
[01:43] <Keybuk> I lie too
[01:43] <Keybuk> you can
[01:43] <jdub> oh!
[01:44] <jdub> ide-cd dma=1
[01:44] <jdub> :)
[01:44] <Keybuk> echo "options ide-cd dma=1" > /etc/modprobe.d/ide-cd
[01:45] <Keybuk> would be more "robust", as it'd also ensure that option happened if hotplug or jdub loads it
[01:45] <jdub> ahr
[01:51] <sladen> gicmo: evening
[01:53] <gicmo> sladen, it's almost 2pm here so morning would be better ;)
[01:53] <gicmo> sladen, I definitly wanna help out with the graphical boot stuff (I just switched over from fedora and I really miss it) :)
[01:56] <sladen> gicmo: your welcome to help and join in (we'd like your ideas too)
[01:56] <Keybuk> jdub: I wish there were a way of having separate volumes
[01:56] <Keybuk> so rather than all this "PCM" nonsense, you just set the volume for gaim, the volume for rhythmbox
[01:56] <gicmo> btw .. I took me 3 hours to get acpi up and running here .. :(
[01:56] <Keybuk> then you can have loud music, without BRING!(*"($*!"&*$!&$*(!"$_$ every time you get a message <g>
[01:57] <sladen> gicmo: there was some code written at the last conference, which I promised I'd package up for the #debsplash guys
[01:58] <gicmo> sladen, ahh some code is always a good starting point ;)
[02:33] <gicmo> Ok, blog updated .. 
[02:33] <gicmo> checking mail and then to bed .. damn its 2.30 am already ..
[02:41] <gicmo> 'nigh
[02:55] <lamont3> daniels/fabbione around?
[02:56] <lamont3> bbiab
[04:37] <shaya> interesthing thing I've noticed.  If you do set a root password, many things that ask you for a root password don't take it, but want your user password (ala sudo)
[04:37] <shaya> i know why you do sudo, but it seems once a root password is set all those things are buggy, as they do ask for the root password
[04:38] <shaya> for example, run aptitude as a regular user, it asks for the "root" password
[04:40] <jdub> that's unrelated to whether you have a root password set or not
[04:41] <jdub> we just didn't bother fixing it to use sudo
[04:51] <tseng> lo jdub 
[04:53] <jdub> morning tseng 
[05:01] <shaya> jdub: confused?
[05:01] <shaya> aptitude does use sudo
[05:01] <shaya> but it asks for root password
[05:01] <shaya> so root password doesnt work
[05:01] <shaya> need to use user password
[05:05] <jdub> sounds like it wasn't a fully fixed bug, then
[05:07] <shaya> so it's something I should file?
[05:11] <shaya> there was a bug filed and closed
[05:11] <shaya> reopened it
[06:01] <hornbeck> jdub: you around?
[06:01] <jdub> yeah
[06:01] <hornbeck> the Ubuntu in a Nutshell
[06:02] <hornbeck> what are you looking for in it
[06:02] <jdub> ah
[06:02] <jdub> long discussion
[06:02] <jdub> i'll mail ubuntu-doc or you or something
[06:02] <hornbeck> ok, have you seen our book outline?
[06:02] <jdub> bits, haven't investigated a lot
[06:02] <jdub> seems different to the nutshell goals
[06:03] <hornbeck> right, if you could mail me what you are looking for 
[06:03] <hornbeck> hornbeck at freeshell dot org
[06:03] <hornbeck> thanks
[08:32] <fabbione> morning guys
[08:34] <pitti> Hi fabbione!
[08:41] <sladen> hornbeck: 'what is sudo', 'why did they rename kernel-sources', 'I heard mp3 ain't legal, where do I get my warez?'
[09:24] <sjoerd> morning
[09:24] <sjoerd> pitti: could you check the new device-removable.sh script to see if i haven't done anything stupid
[09:25] <pitti> Hi sjoerd 
[09:25] <pitti> yes, I can
[09:25] <pitti> From a quick glance it seems that you do something similar as pmount
[09:25] <pitti> sjoerd: do you have the file at hand somewhere?
[09:25] <sjoerd> no svn checkout ?
[09:26] <pitti> sjoerd: svn checkout lasts so long...
[09:26] <pitti> sjoerd: okay, I'll check it out
[09:26] <sjoerd> :)
[09:27] <sjoerd> alioth is somewhat overloaded it seems....
[09:27] <pitti> sjoerd: debian/patches looks nice again :-)
[09:27] <pitti> sjoerd: and I suppose with your merges the Ubuntu version shouldn't look much worse
[09:28] <sjoerd> you mean in gvm ? there were no changes in hal's debian/patches
[09:31] <pitti> no, I actually meant hal
[09:31] <pitti> Ubuntu's debian/patches in hal is pretty crowded now
[09:31] <sjoerd> ah right
[09:31] <pitti> I looked at the script, but it is too complex for me to be able to say yes or no after two minutes :-)
[09:32] <sjoerd> you have somewhat more time 
[09:32] <pitti> I will scrutinize it more thoroughly after I fixed samba
[09:32] <sjoerd> k
[09:32] <sjoerd> just want to be sure that stupid things are out of it before i sent it to md
[09:32] <sjoerd> my shell programming skills suck
[09:33] <pitti> btw, do you publish the orig.tar.gz tarballs somewhere?
[09:33] <pitti> for PostgreSQL I just put them into the top repository directory
[09:33] <sjoerd> pitti: why did you put ubuntu-storage-policy.fdi in /etc instead patching the one in /usr/share 
[09:34] <sjoerd> without tarball.mk it's just the upstream tarball
[09:34] <pitti> sjoerd: because I want the users actually be able to customize it
[09:34] <pitti> sjoerd: changes in /usr/share are lost on next upgrade
[09:35] <sjoerd> ok, but the can always put something like this in /etc 
[09:35] <pitti> sjoerd: and I think it is nicer to give users something to change, instead of urging them to write a conffile from scratch
[09:35] <sjoerd> so it's more an example 
[09:35] <sjoerd> k, good point
[09:35] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, I don't insist on my solution
[09:35] <pitti> sjoerd: if you want to adopt the change for Debian as well, I don't need the etc file any more
[09:35] <pitti> sjoerd: if you want to keep 2GB, fine for m
[09:35] <pitti> me
[09:36] <sjoerd> i was gonna put an example in /etc anyway, to show how people can indicate that gvm shouldn't automount certain drives
[09:36] <pitti> sjoerd: but at least you need the patch to set correct values for the flags
[09:37] <sjoerd> yeah
[09:37] <sjoerd> didn't check the differences yet (except for the 1gb and 2gb difference)
[09:38] <pitti> sjoerd: the key difference is that the original fdi only sets sync to true if < 2 GB
[09:38] <pitti> sjoerd: but that is pmount's default anyway; you need to set sync to false explicitly
[09:38] <pitti> sjoerd: same for noatime
[09:39] <sjoerd> ah
[09:40] <sjoerd> i can patch the system fdi for the rigth flags.. and also put this commented out in a preferences.fdi
[09:40] <sjoerd> just to show how to easily do it
[09:40] <sjoerd> i was planning to do that for the automount hint anyway
[09:40] <pitti> sjoerd: this would be nice
[09:41] <pitti> sjoerd: then I could revert the Ubuntu patch
[09:41] <sjoerd> yeah and we can still change the default easily, as it's in /usr/share
[09:42] <sjoerd> oh cool.. kay send a patch to let udev handle all the hotplug stuff
[09:51] <pitti> sjoerd: i. e. the unmounting?
[09:52] <sjoerd> uhm no, what /sbin/hotplug now does.. but then done by udev
[09:52] <sjoerd> which gives you better serialisation among other things
[09:52] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, everything? Including module loading, file parsing etc.
[09:53] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, this essentially means to merge the udev and hotplug sources, I suppose
[09:53] <pitti> sjoerd: but it certainly looks nicer to have one less item in the chain
[09:53] <sjoerd> udev did already the same thing for the most part
[09:53] <pitti> sjoerd: udev did not load modules AFAIK
[09:54] <pitti> however, sounds nice
[09:54] <pitti> I hope that all the upstream and Debian maintainers agree on this
[09:55] <sjoerd> should fix some races here and there
[09:56] <sjoerd> dunno, it makes more sense that way.. so i think it's hard for the debian people not to agree
[10:01] <pitti> from the technical perspective they surely agree, but the hotplug maintainer will lose his baby... :-)
[10:11] <pitti> Hi daniels 
[10:21] <daniels> pitti: morning
[10:30] <pitti> Hey, I just became "uncle"! :-))
[10:30] <pitti> My sister got a little daughter 
[10:31] <sjoerd> congratulations 
[10:31] <lulu> pitti:that's awesome :o)
[10:32] <pitti> lulu: Yeah! Unfortunately my sister lives 700 km away, so it will take a while until I actually see her
[10:32] <lulu> pitti: have to live with digital pics via email :o(
[10:35] <fabbione> daniels: 3614 <-
[10:36] <Kamion> morning folks
[10:36] <fabbione> hey Kamion
[10:36] <pitti> Hi Kamion 
[10:40] <pitti> mvo__: growing tails? :-))
[10:42] <mvo__> tsss :)
[10:45] <daniels> fabbione: got it, thanks
[10:50] <fabbione> daniels: what about uploading xorg? ;)
[10:50] <fabbione> my sparc already hates you :P
[10:51] <daniels> heh
[10:51] <daniels> so just put it in not-for-us for the time being
[10:51] <daniels> but yeah, I'll do xorg this morning
[10:51] <fabbione> nah that's ok.. it needs to build xfree86 first
[10:51] <fabbione> i forgot to tell sbuild to not die for inactivity
[10:51] <fabbione> and it killed the build right in the middle of it
[10:55] <daniels> heh!  whoops
[11:17] <daniels> fabbione: i'm going to go with a full (security + your crack) upload
[11:17] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[11:17] <fabbione> if mdz will say something i will take that responsability
[11:17] <daniels> simply because I've been busy enough with triage, other distro stuff, taking tuesday off, etc, that I haven't had time to properly finish all of my stuff
[11:17] <daniels> cool
[11:17] <fabbione> but you will take the responsability for the broken crap
[11:18] <Kamion> 10:17 < fabbione> if mdz will say something i will take that responsability
[11:18] <Kamion> say something about what?
[11:19] <fabbione> Kamion: mixing a security upload to hoary, together with other bug fixes
[11:19] <daniels> (enter Kamion!)
[11:19] <Kamion> for hoary I shouldn't think there'd be a problem with that
[11:19] <daniels> Kamion: uploading 6.8.1-1ubuntu3 with libxpm fix + other random stuff
[11:19] <daniels> ok, cool
[11:19] <fabbione> Kamion: exactly my idea
[11:19] <daniels> ounds ill
[11:20] <Kamion> ?
[11:20] <fabbione> also because i don't see any point in pushing foo 1.0-2 with the security and 10 minutes later -3 with all the other crack
[11:20] <Kamion> quite so
[11:21] <daniels> Kamion: 'sounds ill' -> 'delightful!  my people shall make it so'
[11:21] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[11:22] <Kamion> daniels: thanks for the British translation ;-)
[11:22] <seb128> hey
[11:22] <daniels> Kamion: i'm here to help, dude
[11:22] <daniels> Kamion: but after hearing some British music, I'm unsure about my translations
[11:23] <rburton> haha
[11:23] <daniels> 'dude am I ever pissed off' -> 'GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, WAPPERS DO' might be more appropriate, it seems :P
[11:23] <Kamion> (sed's fixed now, right?)
[11:23] <Kamion> wappers?
[11:24] <daniels> Kamion: goldie lookin chain
[11:24] <daniels> Kamion: keybuk's not subjected you to that?
[11:24] <Kamion> nope
[11:24] <rburton> oh he doesn't have it does he?
[11:24] <daniels> Kamion: the origin of WOO WOO SUMMON THE POLICE
[11:25] <daniels> Kamion: sort of welsh/northern rap
[11:25] <azeem> summon?
[11:25] <Kamion> daniels: terrifying
[11:25] <daniels> azeem: when you summon someone, you get them
[11:25] <daniels> Kamion: but hillariously funny :)
[11:25] <azeem> ok, but KRS-1 had that as 'sound of da police', no?
[11:25] <rburton> daniels: have you heard "guns don't kill people, wabbits do" by elma fudd
[11:26] <daniels> rburton: no, but I've heard Kinnison mumbling it :)
[11:26] <daniels> azeem: dunno, don't listen to much krs stuff
[11:26] <daniels> but anyway, we're *desperately* offtopic here
[11:27] <rburton> bah
[11:34] <Kamion> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_3.1.0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[11:34] <Kamion>  trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/lib64', which is also in package xorg-driver-synaptics
[11:36] <daniels> Kamion: /usr/X11R6/lib64?!?
[11:36] <Kamion> daniels: can you just install stuff in /usr/X11R6/lib/ please?
[11:36] <Kamion> daniels: base-files installs a symlink, you install a directory ...
[11:36] <Kamion> probably didn't break until base-files got upgraded
[11:37] <daniels> Kamion: unintentional, I assure you
[11:37] <Kamion> np
[11:37] <Kamion> just broke my upgrade, that's all :)
[11:40] <azeem> woo! woo!
[11:41] <_rene_> pitti: ping
[11:42] <pitti> _rene_: pong
[11:42] <pitti> _rene_: Hi, how are you?
[11:42] <_rene_> pitti: you may be interested in contribution to the current discussion of debian-openoffice wrt tasksel / OOo's l10n pkgs
[11:42] <_rene_> pitti: the depends _is_ needed. I outlined why
[11:42] <_rene_> pitti: maybe we could do it a conflicts to the older version
[11:42] <_rene_> pitti: fine, thanks
[11:42] <_rene_> s/do/make/
[11:43] <pitti> _rene_: I did this conflicts to older/newer versions in the mozilla locale packages, works fine
[11:43] <_rene_> args, the reassigning failed
[11:43] <_rene_> so it's not on -openoffice yet ;-)
[11:43] <pitti> _rene_: is this possible in the template?
[11:44] <_rene_> er, blah
[11:44] <_rene_> I need coffe
[11:44] <_rene_> it is on -openoffice
[11:44] <pitti> Enjoy it :-)
[11:44] <_rene_> pitti: we could do in control.lang.in, yes
[11:44] <pitti> _rene_: this would be nice
[11:45] <pitti> _rene_: conflicting to older and newer versions should basically do the same as a Depends to a particular version
[11:45] <pitti> _rene_: are there any other difficulties apart from mixed versions?
[11:45] <_rene_> not that I know of
[11:46] <_rene_> one of the  majjor problems is when you want -y
[11:46] <_rene_> wou *need* 1.1.3 oo.o and oo.o-bin
[11:46] <_rene_> erm
[11:46] <_rene_> 1.1.2
[11:46] <_rene_> since only there the definitiions needed are added
[11:46] <_rene_> but otherwise I see no problems except them not being removed when wanting to remove openoffice.org ;-)
[11:49] <rburton> ooh, http://www.klika.si/ziga/bootchart/bootchart-rhgbfix.png is sweet
[11:50] <pitti> _rene_: if you remove the language pack as well, it will be removed
[11:50] <pitti> _rene_: this is exactly what we want
[11:51] <_rene_> yes, but I currently am thinking only about tasksel and sarge ;-)
[11:51] <daniels> Kamion: new xorg-driver-synaptics in my upload queue in chinstrap
[11:53] <_rene_> as I said I am no ubuntu dev, but as you would profit from that Conflicts: sttuff too I tell you ;-)
[11:55] <daniels> _rene_: it's just the same as work
[11:55] <daniels> _rene_: when my job hacking on X fired up, I had no time for Debian
[11:55] <daniels> _rene_: if you need to work long hours in a supermarket, or at a bakery, you don't always have time for Debian
[11:56] <daniels> _rene_: seriously, people are only noticing more because it's another free software project
[11:56] <_rene_> ah, and why don't we still have all testing-security stuff complete? when elmo now has time to do Debian stuff? (elmo: nothing personal)
[11:56] <pitti> _rene_: In fact I'm now able to put more work to Debian as before
[11:56] <azeem> _rene_: this is off-topic here, really
[11:57] <_rene_> daniels started it, I just tought
[12:02] <elmo> _rene_: don't be ridiculous, of course it's pesonal.  you're pretending  like I'm the only person in the world who can fix testing-security which blatently isn't true.
[12:02] <_rene_> elmo: no. just that you and ryan can do that
[12:03] <_rene_> elmo: as far as I know
[12:03] <elmo> _rene_: bzzt
[12:03] <elmo> and Ryan (and two of the three others) don't work for Canonical\
[12:04] <daniels> elmo: have I got half an hour on concordia?
[12:04] <_rene_> anyway, this really wasn't meant personal
[12:04] <seb128> elmo: python-gtk2 sync please
[12:04] <_rene_> this was just an example where an important person looks like he doesn't have time to do this
[12:04] <smurfix> _rene_: it's still off-topic.
[12:05] <elmo> _rene_: dude, if you make it personal, it doesn't matter how many times you say "it's not personal"
[12:05] <_rene_> yes
[12:05] <_rene_> smurfix: but since daniels and elmo responded...
[12:05] <elmo> if you want to make it not personal, stop talking about me when it's not actually all on me
[12:05] <_rene_> elmo: 't insult you personally
[12:06] <elmo> seb128: done
[12:06] <seb128> thanks :)
[12:06] <_rene_> elmo: Itf it wold be personally I would have somethking like "James Troup doesn't do ...."
[12:06] <smurfix> _rene_: doesn't change the fact that it isn't. Now please take it elsewhere.
[12:06] <fabbione> elmo: please sync apache 1.3.33-2 from sid
[12:06] <_rene_> I would call it misunderstanding
[12:06] <elmo> daniels: dude, don't even ask - it's a port box, as long as it's work related, do what you want
[12:06] <elmo> if I need the machine exclusively, you wouldn't even be able to login ;-)
[12:07] <daniels> elmo: heh :) ok, cheers
[12:07] <_rene_> smurfix: I am in here to coordinate OOo stuff.
[12:08] <_rene_> smurfix: when daniels and elmo respond I think I should be able to re-respond
[12:08] <elmo> fabbione: you don't have to ask me to sync stuff without 'ubuntu' in the version in hoary - it'll sync as soon as it reaches a mirror
[12:08] <_rene_> anyway, this now seems to have settled down
[12:08] <fabbione> elmo: oh ok..
[12:10] <mvo__> elmo: how often (~changes/day) does the Packages file change currently in warty/hoary? 
[12:11] <_rene_> hi mvo__ 
[12:11] <elmo> mvo: hard to tell at the moment - due to ia64 uploading packages 24/7
[12:11] <mvo__> hi _rene_ 
[12:11] <elmo> mvo: but in theory, up to every 30 mins
[12:12] <mvo__> elmo: arggggss, that's a lot. how often in debian? how often (roughtly) in warty?
[12:12] <elmo> mvo: debian is once a day
[12:13] <elmo> warty, I dunno, it's no 48, but it's a lot, I'd WAG at 20+
[12:13] <elmo> err, not warty, hoary
[12:13] <elmo> warty is like, never, except for the odd warty-security update and the incredibly rare warty-updates update
[12:14] <mvo__> all right, thanks. I'm still toying with the Packages.gz diff idea
[12:14] <elmo> mvo__: you could just ignore our insane update speed for that - we probably won't be able to sustain it forever
[12:15] <fabbione> elmo: why not?
[12:15] <mvo__> :) it would be cool for ubuntu/stable and debian then
[12:16] <elmo> fabbione: more arches, bigger archives, more distributions, etc.
[12:16] <elmo> and it encourages mirrors/users to sync more often, which hurts the master etc.
[12:16] <fabbione> elmo: how far are we from the limit?
[12:16] <fabbione> (of the 30 minutes)
[12:17] <elmo> fabbione: quite away at the moment - don't worry, it's not changing in the next month or anything
[12:17] <elmo> I'm just saying, it's not something I think we should guarantee we'll do indefinitely
[12:18] <fabbione> elmo: i understand.. 
[12:18] <fabbione> also switching from 30 minutes to 2 hours would be more than sane imho
[12:19] <Kamion> daniels: thanks
[12:23] <fabbione> seb128: you around?
[12:23] <seb128> yes
[12:23] <seb128> why ?
[12:23] <fabbione> seb128: just one simple question.. is the default gdm config always shipped by the package or is it generated?
[12:24] <seb128> what do you mean by "generated" ? like debconf questions to create it ?
[12:24] <seb128> no, that's shipped by the package
[12:24] <Kamion> generated => maintainer script presumably
[12:25] <fabbione> ok
[12:25] <fabbione> thanks
[12:25] <seb128> np
[12:25] <Kamion> fabbione: 2 hours> the current interval is absolutely fantastic when you're trying to get something fixed in a hurry, as I often have to do
[12:25] <seb128> you would like to make some changes ?
[12:28] <fabbione> Kamion: i fully agree with the current interval, but if we will reach the limit we will need to go one step higher.. to let say one hour....
[12:28] <fabbione> but i think we can easily live with 2 hours + manual elmo's black magic if the s**t hit the fan
[12:29] <azeem> btw, you guys do source-only uploads, right?
[12:29] <fabbione> azeem: yes
[12:29] <azeem> all the time?
[12:29] <fabbione> yes
[12:29] <azeem> thanks
[12:29] <fabbione> azeem: still this doesn't exclude that you need to check your package before uploading
[12:29] <fabbione> and bla bla bla...
[12:31] <fabbione> seb128: no thanks.. there is no need to modify anything
[12:31] <fabbione> seb128: i would be more glad if you will tell me in advance when there will be changes (if any)
[12:32] <azeem> fabbione: heh, sure
[12:32] <azeem> it should apply cleanly, at least ;)
[12:32] <seb128> fabbione: ok
[12:32] <fabbione> azeem: lol
[12:49] <pitti> carlos: Hi!
[12:49] <carlos> pitti: morning!
[12:49] <pitti> carlos: morning is good - it's lunchtime
[12:50] <carlos> pitti: I just wake up :-P
[12:50] <carlos> so, it's morning here
[12:50] <carlos> ;-)
[12:50] <seb128> hey carlos 
[12:54] <carlos> seb128: dude, you should confirm your flight to matar or I will be alone in the hotel :-)
[12:55] <seb128> oups, sorry, I've forgotten the jabber window on a desktop the other day
[12:55] <seb128> and noticed some hours after that
[12:55] <seb128> I've confirmed it, just not updated the wiki
[12:56] <carlos> ;-)
[12:57] <robtaylor> carlos: hey :)
[12:57] <carlos> robtaylor: hey!
[12:57] <robtaylor> carlos: i'll be coming to mataro :) paid for my my work :)
[12:58] <carlos> robtaylor: cool!
[12:58] <carlos> robtaylor: which days?
[12:58] <robtaylor> carlos: 9th till the 13th i think
[12:59] <robtaylor> carlos: yep, land in barcelona 16:35 on thursday, and leave 22:70 on monday
[12:59] <robtaylor> s/22:70/2155
[01:00] <robtaylor> i thought that looked wrong =)
[01:00] <robtaylor> carlos: so hows the accessd going. did you give some thought to the black box idea?
[01:01] <carlos> robtaylor: I was talking with gst's maintainer
[01:01] <carlos> and he agree on the idea
[01:01] <robtaylor> carlos: gst?
[01:01] <carlos> gnome system tools
[01:01] <robtaylor> ah :)
[01:02] <carlos> but I was not able to finish the prototype this weekend
[01:02] <robtaylor> cool. i bought a new laptop yesterday so i could start working on stuff again, but the hd was b0rked :(
[01:04] <carlos> :-(
[01:05] <robtaylor> yeah, luckily i got it from a shop so i'll get them to replace it.. i just hope it is the hd and not the controller :(
[01:05] <robtaylor> carlos: didi you get much done on the prototype?
[01:06] <carlos> robtaylor: nothing about dbus yet, I was playing with pygtk and did the login dialog, nothing more
[01:07] <robtaylor> carlos: hmm, the login dialog is another executable, remember ;)
[01:07] <carlos> I know, but part of the system
[01:07] <carlos> :-)
[01:07] <seb128> carlos: dude, gst=gstreamer :)
[01:07] <carlos> I was working on the dialog <-> daemon communication
[01:07] <carlos> seb128: nor really :-)
[01:08] <carlos> seb128: both have the same letters
[01:08] <robtaylor> carlos: should just be done over stdout/stdin
[01:08] <carlos> robtaylor: that was my first attempt but I was getting mad with that because it didn't worked until I close the pipe
[01:08] <carlos> so I moved to unix sockets
[01:08] <robtaylor> carlos: definitly should just be inherited pipes..
[01:09] <robtaylor> for max security
[01:09] <carlos> robtaylor: as I said, I did it
[01:09] <carlos> but It didn't worked
[01:09] <carlos> I need a two ways channel
[01:09] <carlos> and I was using two pipes
[01:10] <carlos> but it always got blocked
[01:10] <robtaylor> carlos: why do you need 2 way channel?
[01:10] <robtaylor> just get the cleinet to send login:<bla> passwd: <bla> when its finished
[01:12] <carlos> robtaylor: the server needs to tell the helper daemon if it's right or not
[01:15] <robtaylor> carlos: hmm, ok, well i'll take a look at the code when i have a moment - it *should* be possible to do it with pipes
[01:15] <carlos> robtaylor: if you get it working with pipes, It's perfect
[01:17] <gicmo> 'morning
[01:18] <herzi> can somebody please verify this: there's no character-pick applet un gnome-applets 2.9.1-0ubuntu1
[01:19] <gicmo> herzi, seems like I dont have one here ..
[01:19] <herzi> k
[01:19] <herzi> looks like a missing build dependency
[01:20] <elmo> gar.  nice way to quasi-DOS a machine, fill it's /tmp with so much crap it takes eons to boot
[01:22] <daniels> elmo: yeah
[01:23] <elmo> damn.  I don't even get to shout at anyone - the directories seem to be owned by me :(
[01:23] <daniels> elmo: well, if you're really upset at yourself, you could slice yourself up
[01:23] <daniels> the datacentre equivalent of seppuku
[01:26] <fabbione> seb128: do you think you can create somekind of patch to disable the XKeepcrashing from gdm as a argument switch?
[01:26] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, that should be easy to do
[01:26] <daniels> why does X fail to start on the 441?
[01:26] <fabbione> or as a config oprion like NoXKeepCrashing
[01:26] <fabbione> daniels: no that's not the case
[01:28] <fabbione> seb128: the config option would be the best solution
[01:28] <fabbione> seb128: either to accept the fact that there is no XKeepCrashing
[01:29] <seb128> ok
[01:29] <seb128> hum, I've to go for lunch
[01:29] <fabbione> seb128: or a special option that disables it
[01:29] <fabbione> so do i :-)
[01:29] <fabbione> i don't need it right away...
[01:29] <fabbione> so don't worry :)
[01:29] <seb128> there is no hurry I guess, I'll think about it during lunch :)
[01:29] <seb128> later
[01:29] <fabbione> bon apetit
[01:36] <herzi> jdub, ping
[01:40] <elmo> oh. my.  god.  could linux-source-2.6.8.1 take _any_ longer to build? :/
[01:40] <daniels> elmo: could be worse, it could be OOo
[01:42] <elmo> I'm pretty sure it's worse than oo.o
[01:42] <daniels> seriously?
[01:42] <daniels> that's impressive
[01:42] <elmo> oh, no, it's about the half the  time,but still
[01:42] <elmo> linux-source-2.6.8.1:   01:55:16 (5 entries, sigma 01:08:07)
[01:43] <fabbione> daniels: ok after lunch :-)
[01:43] <elmo> openoffice.org:         03:59:50 (1 entry, sigma 00:00:00)
[01:43] <Mithrandir> OOo isn't that bad, gcc is worse, iirc.
[01:43] <elmo> anyway, lunch..
[01:43] <daniels> fabbione: thanks
[01:43] <fabbione> daniels: no problem
[01:43] <Mithrandir> elmo: a sigma of one hour is bloody much, though.
[01:45] <fabbione>       db_set xserver-xfree86/config/device/driver nvidia
[01:45] <fabbione>       db_set xserver-xorg/config/device/driver nvidia
[01:45] <fabbione> this won't work
[01:45] <fabbione> you need to setup a var for the server you are using
[01:45] <fabbione> and change that to xserver-${SERVER}
[01:46] <fabbione> debconf will kill the script if there is no template
[01:46] <daniels> ah ok, will do
[01:47] <fabbione> daniels: it's the same reason why we set +e in the data migration loop
[01:47] <daniels> fabbione: try that
[01:48] <fabbione> daniels: i would also do in a slightly different way.
[01:48] <daniels> how so
[01:48] <fabbione> you assume that either one or the other server is installed
[01:48] <fabbione> but you you might have one in a non purge state
[01:49] <fabbione> you assume that either one or the other server is installed and the other purged (sorry)
[01:49] <daniels> mmm, fair point
[01:49] <daniels> that's why I put the test for xorg first though
[01:50] <daniels> if xorg.conf is there and they're running XFree86, they've downgraded
[01:50] <daniels> in which case -- both pieces
[02:10] <fabbione> daniels: remember that xserver doesn't purge the config if it has been customized
[02:10] <fabbione> so don't rely only on the fact that the config is there
[02:11] <fabbione> i think you can check using /var/lib/xfree86/{server}.roaster or md5sum
[02:13] <daniels> bah
[02:13] <daniels> it's a pretty good guess
[02:13] <daniels> if they've purged a server, nvidia-glx-config isn't going to do them much good anyway :P
[02:24] <Kamion> yay, Manoj merged the kernel-package stem patch
[02:26] <daniels> Kamion: that sounds awfully like 'bouncey bouncey'
[02:26] <daniels> (emphasis on 'awful')
[02:32] <Kamion> daniels: xorg-driver-synaptics failed to build
[02:33] <daniels> Kamion: ?!?
[02:33] <daniels> let me hit the logs up
[02:33] <Kamion> dh_installdocs
[02:33] <Kamion> cp: cannot stat `changelog': No such file or directory
[02:33] <daniels> interesting.
[02:33] <daniels> yeah
[02:34] <daniels> how incredibly bizzare
[02:48] <asw> sabdfl ping 
[02:49] <Kamion> elmo: please resync xemacs21 to Debian
[02:51] <fabbione> doh
[02:51] <fabbione> did something happended to our theme?
[02:51] <fabbione> all of a sudden gdm decided to gimme back the original one with the big yellow flower
[02:54] <pitti> Can someone please proofread https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/usn-samba.txt ? TIA
[02:54] <Kamion> "writing access" => "write access"
[02:55] <smurfix> pitti: Whom do I ask for access? elmo?
[02:55] <Kamion> otherwise looks ok to me
[02:55] <pitti> Kamion: fixed, thanks for review
[02:55] <pitti> Kamion: I'll publish the thing now
[02:56] <pitti> Kamion: I think it is okay to give smurfix the chinstrap web password, what do you think?
[02:56] <pitti> Kamion: he's now an approved developer
[02:57] <Kamion> pitti: ask elmo, please, I don't know the policy
[02:57] <pitti> smurfix: please ask elmo
[02:57] <Kamion> seb128: #3833> should we just sync to the Debian version then?
[02:57] <smurfix> I noticed ;-)
[02:58] <pitti> smurfix: /me likes to play parrot :-)
[02:58] <seb128> Kamion: no, we have a bunch of extra changes
[02:59] <seb128> Kamion: I don't get the point to spend 1 hour to merge the changes in the debian package for nothing ... I'm missing something ot that's ok ?
[02:59] <Kamion> seb128: at least merging the changelog would be good so that we can tell that without looking at the bug, then
[02:59] <Kamion> there are benefits to being able to determine this sort of thing automatically
[02:59] <Kamion> statistics over the whole distribution, etc.
[02:59] <seb128> statistics ?
[03:00] <Kamion> how many packages are completely merged with Debian
[03:00] <seb128> Keybuk said it's not needed yesterday
[03:00] <Kamion> I shall have to talk with Keybuk when he arrives, then
[03:00] <seb128> Kamion: in we want to merge the package it'll take ... say 1 hour, there is 5-6 patch to add to the debian package ... to get nothing out of the fact to be based on the debian package
[03:01] <seb128> that's wasting 1 hour imho
[03:01] <Kamion> why does it take so long if everything in the Ubuntu package is in the Debian one?
[03:01] <Kamion> sorry, other way round I mean
[03:01] <Kamion> IMO if you don't want to do it you should leave the bug open, but *shrug*
[03:01] <Kamion> remember that this sort of thing is going to provide vital clues to Malone in the future
[03:02] <Kamion> it is not a no-op
[03:02] <seb128> but there is no point to let it open, we don't need anything from the debian package
[03:02] <Kamion> you need the changelog so that Malone can have a clue how the versions interrelate
[03:02] <seb128> why does it take time ? Because apt-get source the debian package, start adding ubuntu patches, review the diff to extra stuff not added in debian/patches but directly changed, build, test ...
[03:03] <seb128> easy to spend 20min (1hour is perhaps too much yes)
[03:03] <Kamion> I realise that it's essentially just bookkeeping, but this sort of bookkeeping is going to keep us sane in the future
[03:04] <Kamion> if you don't want to merge the packaging but just the changelogs, that's fine by me
[03:04] <seb128> hum
[03:04] <Mithrandir> daniels: moo?
[03:04] <seb128> what's useful in the changelog ?
[03:04] <Kamion> although maybe not, it isn't really a descendant
[03:04] <Kamion> you have obviously never attempted to implement a version-tracking BTS. I have. :-)
[03:05] <Mithrandir> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_3.1.0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[03:05] <Mithrandir>  trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/lib64', which is also in package xorg-driver-synaptics
[03:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: told daniels about it earlier, he's fixing
[03:05] <Mithrandir> ok, goodie
[03:05] <Kamion> seb128: probably best not to merge the changelog without merging the packaging, actually ...
[03:05] <seb128> Kamion: still time to merge when that will be useful ...
[03:06] <Kamion> seb128: the useful bit in the changelog is that it's the only possible reliable way to tell that one version of a package is based on any given other version
[03:06] <seb128> Kamion: we could spare a bunch of useless merges before this time and use that time for useful work :)
[03:06] <seb128> Kamion: the ubuntu package is not based on the debian version, it was here before ...
[03:06] <Kamion> true
[03:07] <Kamion> well, like I say, I simply disagree with closing the bug, that's all, I'm not telling you to do it now
[03:07] <Kamion> there are plenty of bugs in bugzilla that it's not worth fixing yet
[03:07] <seb128> I know, I'm closing it because we don't need to merge it imho
[03:07] <seb128> but let me know if I'm wrong
[03:08] <seb128> as said, I've already talked about this with Scott yesterday
[03:08] <seb128> we should have a clear line about what we want to do :)
[03:08] <Kamion> fundamentally I guess it depends whether you want to diverge GNOME forever from Debian or not
[03:08] <seb128> I've no problem with merging for bookkeeping if that's useful, I just thought it was not needed
[03:09] <seb128> Kamion: I include debian changes when they happen in fact, not need to be based on a debian version to do this
[03:09] <Kamion> for example, if Debian applies some fix to a patch that's also in the Ubuntu package, it will be easier to tell that automatically if the packaging is similar
[03:09] <seb128> and Debian's GNOME will always be late, so I don't know when we can merge
[03:10] <Kamion> I realise that you can handle it now, but we need to not be relying on the heroism of individuals :-)
[03:10] <seb128> true
[03:10] <Kamion> the same goes for me and debian-installer, to some extent ...
[03:10] <Kamion> anyway, I'll talk to Scott
[03:10] <seb128> the main difference with GNOME is that we have 2.9 and debian 2.8
[03:11] <seb128> taking 2.8 packages to redo 2.9 ...
[03:11] <Kamion> oh, sure, but that doesn't mean that there won't be say a security patch that applies to both, and we could derive benefit from being able to detect that more automatically
[03:12] <seb128> GNOME packages only have patches in debian/patches
[03:12] <seb128> that should not be hard to detect automatically
[03:12] <Kamion> (actually it's harder than any other type of package right now, isn't it? I didn't think Scott's merge-o-matic knew how to handle it at all
[03:12] <Kamion> )
[03:12] <Kamion> and no, with respect, I disagree, debian/patches/ is not a panacea
[03:13] <seb128> what's the problem with debian/patches ?
[03:13] <seb128> one example: take the debian packages for gdm and figure what changes are in it with the .diff.gz, good luck ...
[03:13] <Kamion> can Scott's merge-o-matic deal with new patches being applied in Debian that are named differently to an Ubuntu patch but that contain the same changeset?
[03:14] <Kamion> let's not have the monolithic vs. debian/patches argument again, I'm not trying to argue that
[03:14] <seb128> good question, I don't know
[03:14] <Kamion> I understand that it cannot
[03:14] <Kamion> which may not affect you with GNOME, but which affects everyone else
[03:15] <seb128> let's wait for Scott and talk with him about all this
[03:15] <Kamion> ok
[03:16] <Kamion> if the merge-o-matic knew how to handle your type of packaging, it could probably just spit out a source package that you could upload rather than you having to merge by hand, anyway
[03:16] <Kamion> that's what most of the other distro team people are dealing with right now.
[03:17] <seb128> yeah
[03:19] <azeem> it could compare md5sums first perhaps, but that does not catch whitespace/indentation issues of course
[03:20] <daniels> Mithrandir: moo!
[03:21] <Mithrandir> daniels: kamion had already prodded you, he said -- xorg-synaptics-driver is b0rken on amd64.
[03:21] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah, just finished lunch
[03:22] <daniels> uploading in a sec
[03:22] <Mithrandir> goodie
[03:23] <daniels> there, have a new xorg while I'm at it
[03:28] <fabbione>     debian/patches/000_stolen_from_patches.diff (taken from
[03:28] <fabbione> i mean.. we have like: stolen_from_HEAD.diff
[03:29] <infinity> Maybe he has a dog named "patches" who wrote the patch?
[03:29] <fabbione> infinity: that would be mostlikely named: stolen_from_DOG.diff
[03:29] <infinity> Never attribute to malice that which you can attribute in a contrived, roundabout way, to pets.
[03:36] <daniels> fabbione: it's not committed to HEAD, so putting it in stolen_from_HEAD is misleading
[03:37] <daniels> fabbione: it was taken from www.x.org/pub/X11R6.8.1/patches, as I said in the header, so that seemed the most sensible thing to put
[03:37] <fabbione> yeah eayh :-))
[03:37] <fabbione> btw.. when do you expect to have cvs back online?
[03:42] <daniels> dunno
[03:42] <daniels> still got ldap to finish tonight after i finish work
[03:42] <infinity> Did you find a CVS backup you're satisfied?
[03:43] <infinity> s/\?$/with\?/
[03:46] <daniels> yeah, I've got one I'm satisfied with -- from the 15th of October
[03:46] <daniels> sigh
[03:47] <fabbione> daniels: tell that's the one WITHOUT xprint :-)
[03:47] <daniels> heh
[03:47] <daniels> if only
[03:47] <fabbione> daniels: this is a really really really ood opportunity
[03:47] <fabbione> good even
[03:47] <daniels> well, I think the current best plan is to say 'right, here's your CVS on the 15th of October, here's your CVS on the 15th of November; do what you like with these two snapshots'
[03:48] <daniels> i have snapshots of a few projects' CVS roots from the 5th also
[03:59] <fabbione> seb128: is it normal that gdm lost his ubuntu theme?
[04:00] <seb128> not
[04:01] <seb128> when ?
[04:01] <elmo> OH MY GOD IT'S STILL BUILDING
[04:01] <daniels> elmo: ... impressive
[04:01] <daniels> elmo: where are you building it?
[04:01] <fabbione> i am not sure.. it was a while i didn't upgrade the machine
[04:01] <elmo> you know, I think that 2hour +figure is with a hot ccache
[04:01] <seb128> fabbione: you have changed the gdm.conf file ?
[04:02] <elmo> I could have hand-edited the binary in this amount of time
[04:02] <elmo> daniels: adare
[04:02] <daniels> elmo: good god
[04:02] <fabbione> seb128: yes but i didn't touch the Theme part
[04:02] <daniels> elmo: oh, that's with thirty-one flavours of sven crack, no?
[04:02] <seb128> perhaps you broke the structure somewhat
[04:03] <elmo> daniels: no, only 3 flavours, that's less than i386
[04:03] <fabbione> seb128: hmmm
[04:03] <daniels> elmo: oh
[04:05] <fabbione> seb128: is there any automatic check i can use?
[04:05] <seb128> fabbione: not afaik
[04:07] <azeem> did you consider splitting up the web archives for, say, ubuntu-users to several pages?
[04:08] <daniels> elmo: are we going to get the customary triumphant salute when it finishes? :)
[04:08] <daniels> elmo: (wappers, not shaft)
[04:13] <fabbione> seb128: yeah. it looks like something related to the config
[04:18] <elmo> Kamion: done
[04:18] <elmo> daniels: meh
[04:19] <fabbione> seb128: it was a permission problem
[04:19] <seb128> ok
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: ta
[04:26] <Kamion> elmo: (you meant xemacs21, right?)
[04:26] <Kamion> speaking of Sven, I have a Pegasos here
[04:27] <lamont_r> morning
[04:28] <elmo> Kamion: right
[04:31] <elmo> sed's fixed now right?
[04:31] <Kamion> so I'm told, I haven't managed to actually test it myself though quite yet
[04:32] <Kamion> there's a bizarre comment in #3771 suggesting that the current powerpc version is broken, which I want to test myself first
[04:43] <lamont_r> daniels/fabbione?
[04:44] <daniels> lamont_r: sup
[04:44] <lamont_r> s3 video chipset with ancient monitor + xorg or xf86 -> nfg
[04:44] <lamont_r> you want a log and config?
[04:45] <daniels> yes please
[04:45] <daniels> through BZ if you will
[04:45] <lamont_r> ok. gimme a bit
[04:50] <fabbione> lamont_r: did you notice python_gtk2 failed to build?
[04:50] <fabbione> because of a md5sum mismatch
[04:50] <lamont_r> fabbione: working through noticing lots of such things....
[04:51] <fabbione> ok
[04:53] <Mithrandir> fabbione: what's the state of ubuntu@sparc?
[04:53] <daniels> elmo: topicdiff?
[04:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: building phase0. almost everything as expected.
[04:54] <smurfix> daniels: -archivr reboot
[04:54] <smurfix> archive
[04:54] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ok, anything I can help you with?
[04:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: Total 248 package(s)
[04:54] <fabbione> left to build
[04:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: not yet i think
[04:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: until you don't want to setup a buildd :-)
[04:55] <Mithrandir> ok, when is it ready for me to bootstrap off?
[04:55] <Mithrandir> I have a few sparcs I want to get flying.
[04:55] <elmo> bah, sucks, if you install lilo and switch to grub, you don't get the nice menu.lst
[04:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we will need to work on the installer sometimes after i pass phase1
[04:56] <Mithrandir> I have a small pile, as I said.  Two 333MHz boxes, can get two 270MHz ones as well
[04:56] <daniels> ah, right
[04:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: right now i am building ubuntu on top of sid
[04:56] <Kamion> _rene_: can you point me to where I can get the patch for #281643, or is RSN going to be in the next day or so?
[04:56] <Kamion> _rene_: I want working Ubuntu CDs :-)
[04:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: finished this phase i need to manually sort out the dep-wait (like gnome2.8 and xorg)
[04:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: completed that phase, we need to rebuild all ubuntu on top of ubuntu
[04:57] <Mithrandir> ok.
[04:57] <Mithrandir> tell me when I can do something useful.
[04:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: right now only extra buildd's would help
[04:58] <Mithrandir> if I set up Debian on the boxes, can you take it from there or do you want help running them as well?
[04:58] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if you are up for them, we can make the setup sunday
[04:58] <_rene_> Kamion: http://cvs.debian.org/oo-deb/debian/rules.diff?r1=1.241&r2=1.242&cvsroot=debian-openoffice
[04:58] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i can take it from there, yes
[04:58] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i will need some sudo access and stuff like that
[04:58] <_rene_> Kamion: it will go in once I catch joeyh and change one thing more in the packages or not
[04:58] <Mithrandir> obviously, and I will need to kill you if you do $stupid_stuff on the network.
[04:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'll see if I can get them netinstalled later today.
[04:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: other than scp'ing packages in/out.. no
[04:59] <fabbione> ah.. and a configured MTA
[04:59] <fabbione> i need to get mail back from the buildd
[04:59] <fabbione> but no need for me to send them
[04:59] <fabbione> to it
[04:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it's an academic network; copying shit is just fine.  We won't notice until you start going >> 10MBit/sec.
[05:00] <fabbione> ahah no way i can manage that from here
[05:01] <Kamion> _rene_: hm, we have a forked version anyway, I might just apply that
[05:14] <lamont_r> fabbione: X11/Xauth.h not found. - what is nas missing?
[05:18] <daniels> lamont_r: libxau-dev
[05:18] <daniels> lamont_r: what exactly are you building??
[05:18] <lamont_r> daniels: looking at the build logs (in this case, nas)
[05:18] <fabbione> lamont_r: from yesterday daniles is your X guy :P
[05:18] <daniels> lamont_r: craaaaaaack.
[05:18] <lamont_r> daniels is my X-bitch.  got it.
[05:20] <lamont_r> Build-Depends: xlibs-static-dev, libsm-dev, libice-dev, libx11-dev, libxt-dev, libxaw7-dev, xutils, bison, flex, file, po-debconf
[05:20] <lamont_r> oh, look. xlibs-static-dev.
[05:20] <daniels> sub out xlibs-static-dev
[05:20] <daniels> anything reverse-depending on xlibs-static will be broken, pretty much
[05:21] <daniels> (xlibs-static -> xlibs-static-{dev,pic})
[05:21] <lamont_r> so file bugs and assign them to you.  got it.
[05:21] <lamont_r> :-)
[05:21] <daniels> yeah, pretty much
[05:21] <daniels> but you get to fix this one :)
[05:21] <lamont_r> are they debian bugs, or just us
[05:21] <lamont_r> daniels: np
[05:21] <lamont_r> xlibs-static == xlibs-static-{dev,pic}, eh?
[05:21] <lamont_r> yes?
[05:23] <daniels> right
[05:23] <daniels> they're just us
[05:29] <lamont_r> daniels: 3860, btw.  if I get a fix today then I can help the poor user when I next visit his house before I head home saturday....
[05:30] <Mithrandir> amu: *prod*?
[05:31] <daniels> lamont_r: lspci output?
[05:31] <Mitario> hey all
[05:31] <daniels> lamont_r: it could well be one of the few cards which are unsupported in xfree86 4.x and above s3
[05:31] <daniels> lamont_r: (try vesa)
[05:36] <lamont_r> daniels: not near the machine right now.
[05:36] <lamont_r> was s3 though for sure...
[05:36] <lamont_r> how does one "try vesa", just to be clueless and off-topic?
[05:36] <daniels> just change Driver "s3" to Driver "vesa"
[05:36] <daniels> and you might want to nuke the BusID while you're at it
[05:36] <lamont_r> doh
[05:44] <Kamion> lamont_r: are the amd64 buildds particularly clogged right now?
[05:46] <lamont_r> shouldn't be
[05:47] <ironwolf> lamont_r: is xlibs mis-behaving in hoary today?
[05:47] <lamont_r> ironwolf: nah - it's an xf86->xorg change thing
[05:48] <daniels> what'd I miss?
[05:48] <ironwolf> lamont_r: (gvim:6415): Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib what's that? and how do I fix?
[05:48] <lamont_r> daniels: he's referring to your answer earlier, I xpect...
[05:48] <lamont_r> ah
[05:48] <lamont_r> ironwolf: that's a locale thing
[05:49] <daniels> ironwolf: if I knew how to fix it, my head would hurt a lot less
[05:49] <ironwolf> daniels: does that mean there isn't currently a fix? or that it's complicated?
[05:49] <daniels> ironwolf: both
[05:51] <Kamion> lamont_r: wondering why they're lagging on xorg-driver-synaptics is all; tell me to sod off if I'm just being too impatient
[05:51] <lamont_r> oh, those are ftbfs
[05:51] <lamont_r> dh_installdocs
[05:51] <lamont_r> cp: cannot stat `changelog': No such file or directory
[05:51] <lamont_r> dh_installdocs: command returned error code 256
[05:51] <enrico> Hello.  Someone knows the IRC nick of Jane Silber (if she has one?)
[05:52] <Mithrandir> enrico: silbs
[05:52] <enrico> Mithrandir: thanks!
[05:52] <lamont_r> Kamion: on all 3 architectures
[05:52] <Kamion> lamont_r: that's the last version back
[05:53] <lamont_r> oh.  well then sod off. ;-)
[05:53] <Kamion> mmkay :)
[05:56] <lamont_r> sigh... sed is not my friend
[06:01] <lamont_r> grumble
[06:01] <lamont_r> Kamion: fixed
[06:02] <Kamion> lamont_r: heh, thanks
[06:13] <lamont_r> Kamion: fwiw, I hadn't really fixed the config on yellow when I started the buildd back up - it's all better now.  (sigh(
[06:14] <lamont_r> fabbione: thanks for pointing me to the real current status of sasl2 and friends (rebootstrapping those on ia64)
[06:15] <lamont_r> fabbione: where does wartylog wind up (for this channel)?
[06:15] <daniels> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[06:20] <gicmo> sladen, did you get the mail?
[06:21] <Kamion> #3861 is freaky
[06:23] <daniels> Kamion: crack
[06:24] <daniels> hm, this 8-bit version of Freestyler is pure crack
[06:24] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xfree86/foo/libx11-6-dbg/usr/X11R6/lib/debug% export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=en_US.UTF-8
[06:24] <daniels> more caffeine this way
[06:26] <daniels> gnarcrackgnar
[06:29] <infinity> daniels : S'ok.  Early today, I mindlessly typed "apt-get install ll" when a shell alias wasn't defined.
[06:29] <daniels> heh
[06:31] <sladen> gicmo: yup, I did.  I'll answer it at some point too ;-)
[06:31] <sladen> who runs mailman around here?
[06:31] <Kamion> that would be jdub I think
[06:32] <Mithrandir> sladen: what's wrong with mailman now?
[06:33] <daniels> i wish I had've looked at that jelly bean instead of eating it straight away -- it was really nice, and I don't know which colour it was
[06:33] <sladen> Mithrandir: nothing.  After a new list
[06:33] <daniels> Keybuk: 'morning
[06:33] <Keybuk> daniels: *cough* yeah
[06:48] <Kamion> oh, baby jesus WEPT, I have to build the openoffice.org source again because it has CVS directories in the source package and my default debuild configuration kills those
[06:49] <infinity> And you want to ship them, why?
[06:49] <daniels> Kamion: oops
[06:49] <Kamion> minimising diff against Debian
[06:50] <Kamion> makes merges sane later
[06:50] <infinity> So, file a bug against the Debian packages to remove the CVS dirs. :)
[06:50] <haggai> infinity: they are there on purpose
[06:50] <infinity> (and arch dirs too... Those really irritate me)
[06:51] <Kamion> arch directories in source packages seem to contain a lot more guff
[06:52] <haggai> I meant the CVS dirs
[06:52] <haggai> I'm not sure what you mean by arch dirs
[06:52] <Kamion> {arch}, .arch-ids
[06:52] <Kamion> i.e. tla
[07:12] (Mitario/#ubuntu-devel) hi mvo_ 
[07:14] <mvo_> hi Mitario 
[07:28] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) LKJE
[07:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) _rene_: isn't 'grep -v -en' wrong? grep will interpret the -en as an option
[07:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) $ (echo openoffice.org-l10n-en; echo openoffice.org-l10n-fr) | grep -v -en
[07:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) $
[07:38] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it will, yes.
[07:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) _rene_: you need 'grep -v -- -en'
[07:38] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it will grep for n, just, afaik
[07:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it'll use -n as an option; standard getopt behaviour ...
[07:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) or maybe not?
[07:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oh, no, you're quite right
[07:39] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) nope, it'll use n as the pattern, since what follows -e is the regex
[07:39] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) quite confusing, though
[07:40] (rcaskey/#ubuntu-devel) btw, anyone played with OOo's new database tool yet?
[07:40] (rcaskey/#ubuntu-devel) It's definately a start
[07:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Can anyone post a translation of #3863 to the bug?
[07:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's Spanish, I think
[07:41] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) going
[07:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) thanks
[07:42] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) I think he's complaining that his pen drive isn't automagically mounted and that he's told the list which told him to bug report it.
[07:42] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) Dear developers. I've got a Abit AN7 uGuru Motherboard with Nvidia mcp-t chip, and usbpen doesn't mount automatically.
[07:43] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) he said he can mount it by hand, but not automatically
[07:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) to the bug :-)
[07:43] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) :) sorry
[07:43] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) I'm surprised my translation was that accurate -- I don't know spanish or any latin languages at all :)
[07:44] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) very accurate Mithrandir 
[07:46] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) "Escribi en la lista de ubuntu en espaol y me dijeron que me notificara este bug" is roughly "I posted to the spanish ubuntu list and was asked to bugfile this"?
[07:47] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: oh, it will?
[07:47] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: hmpf
[07:47] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: thanks
[07:47] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) _rene_: : tfheen@shonap ~ > grep -en /etc/passwd | wc -l
[07:47] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) 30
[07:48] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) : tfheen@shonap ~ > grep -- -en /etc/passwd | wc -l
[07:48] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) 0
[07:48] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) doing mi bugzilla account
[07:48] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) hmm
[07:49] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) need password to post bug translation
[07:49] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) ka-BAM.
[07:49] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) narrowed down the locale issue
[07:49] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) daniels, so tuesday 14 ?
[07:50] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) obvious
[07:51] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) WOO WOO SUMMON THE PO-LICE
[07:54] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion, bug translated
[07:54] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) trukulo: thanks
[07:54] (_rene_/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: thanks, fixed
[07:54] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) you're wellcome
[07:55] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) see you soon kamion :) IRL
[07:55] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) trukulo: sounds good to me, but you'll probably want to check with others
[07:55] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) daniels, confirmed with jane
[07:55] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) tuesday 14 at 7pm
[07:56] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) we only need confirmation of jdub
[07:56] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) awesome!  i'll be there
[07:56] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) and he said to me he wants to
[07:56] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) :)
[07:56] (trukulo/#ubuntu-devel) want to know you all (except fabbione, lol)
[07:56] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) heh
[08:01] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: d-i unhappy on ppc
[08:01] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: howso?
[08:02] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) udev-udeb depends hotplug but it is not installable
[08:02] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) debian-installer build you mean?
[08:02] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) yes
[08:02] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) sorry for the lack of clarity
[08:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) what's the i386 failure about, anyway?
[08:03] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: so, dude.
[08:03] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) daniels@catsby:~% export LANG=en_AU.UTF-8
[08:03] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) daniels@catsby:~% export LC_ALL=$LANG
[08:03] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) daniels@catsby:~% gedit
[08:04] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) [type some stuff] 
[08:04] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) daniels@catsby:~%
[08:04] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: you know how useless it is to set LANG and LC_ALL?  LC_ALL overrides.
[08:04] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: looks like a burp in the bubble we call reality
[08:04] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) retrying
[08:04] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: well, I'm just being very sure
[08:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: hmm, ok, so I suck, fixing
[08:04] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: the point was the lack of OMG XLIB H8S UR LOCALE
[08:04] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: to be even more sure, export the variable twice. :P
[08:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: bonus
[08:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: (it'll be a udev upload)
[08:04] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) that bug was an utter bastard to track down
[08:05] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: anything I should d-w on?
[08:05] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) or will you just tell me to kick it in an hour or 2?
[08:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: udev-udeb 0.042-1ubuntu3 (if you can d-w on udebs)
[08:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) otherwise udev 0.042-1ubuntu3
[08:06] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) >=?
[08:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) sure
[08:07] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) the retry on i386 was a mirror of ppc
[08:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) the retry on i386 was a mirror of ppc
[08:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) xfree86:                02:24:12 (3 entries, sigma 00:16:01)
[08:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) grumble
[08:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: is nautilus-media meant to be in universe?
[08:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: hm, you mean it was an issue just with the en_US.UTF-8 definition?
[08:15] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: afaict, and probably others as well
[08:15] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: but it only manifests in this particular combination
[08:15] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: so I tried regressing libraries and stuff first, and ended up tearing hair out
[08:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) thought somebody'd reported it with en_AU.UTF-8 too
[08:16] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) same definition
[08:16] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) (i'm running in en_AU.UTF-8 now)
[08:22] <seb128> Kamion: yes
[08:22] <seb128> Kamion: it's not really useful and doesn't work very well
[08:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, ok
[08:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) does that mean you don't want to handle its merge bug? :)
[08:26] <seb128> oh no, just assign it to me
[08:26] <seb128> I've probably zapped it
[08:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: ok
[08:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) can someone try logging into the website please?
[08:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) the ubuntulinux.org one I mean
[08:36] (jdz_/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: It works, I'm logged in.
[08:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdz_: have you logged in just now though ?
[08:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) I need someone without an existing cookie to try logging, if possible
[08:36] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: works for me, logged in just now
[08:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: excellent thanks
[08:36] (jdz_/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: Just now.  First time on this computer
[08:37] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdz_: thanks
[08:38] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) ok, now for the actual web server
[08:44] <Kyaneos> hi
[08:46] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) mdz ain't around, is he...
[08:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: nope
[08:54] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) a usbcdrom is handled as sda or scd? 
[08:55] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) :-)
[08:56] <seb128> fabbione: here ?
[09:01] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) apt uploaded
[09:03] <seb128> somebody did a xfree warty-security upload ?
[09:06] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) daniels did, I think
[09:06] <seb128> an user is complaining on #ubuntu-fr that he can only use 640x480 now
[09:06] <seb128> and he was using 1024x768 before the security update
[09:07] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) so how do I force reportbugs to send the mail to a specific address, I wonder.
[09:43] <fabbione> seb128: X belongs to daniels now :-)
[09:43] <seb128> ok
[09:43] <seb128> BTW do you have an idea on what could cause this ?
[09:44] <seb128> I would like to reply something to the guy
[09:44] <fabbione> seb128: probably an inconsistency in the debconf information
[09:44] <fabbione> seb128: just tell him to use dpkg-reconfigure
[09:45] <seb128> ok
[09:46] <daniels> what'd I miss?
[09:47] <seb128> daniels: 
 an user is complaining on #ubuntu-fr that he can only use 640x480 now
 and he was using 1024x768 before the security update
[09:47] <daniels> ehm
[09:47] <daniels> that's complete crack.  nothing changed but libXpm.
[09:48] <seb128> ok
[09:48] <seb128> thanks :)
[09:48] <daniels> no worries
[10:00] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) @ERROR: max connections (25) reached - try again later
[10:00] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) r
[10:00] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) sigh...
[10:00] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) should archive.ubuntu.com be happier?
[10:04] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are you still around?
[10:04] <fabbione> daniels: we need to prepare a few slides for the talk...
[10:04] <fabbione> daniels: and decide what to talk about
[10:05] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: 20:13 <Mithrandir> I'm off for some food and beer
[10:05] <fabbione> amu: thanks :-)
[10:06] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: he told me also ... , drop me a /msg .... 
[10:07] <fabbione> nah
[10:07] <fabbione> it's nothing urgent
[10:09] <fabbione> lamont_r: and this update is going to take forever
[10:09] <fabbione> xorg and xfree86 the same day
[10:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: shame on you. :-)
[10:10] <fabbione> no no
[10:10] <fabbione> I AM NOT X MAINTAINER ANY
[10:10] <fabbione> MORE
[10:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) hehe
[10:10] <fabbione> ops
[10:10] <fabbione> sorry
[10:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) really?  well shame on daniels then. :-)
[10:10] <fabbione> i _didn't_ want to use the C4P5 L0CK
[10:10] <seb128> fabbione: what do you do know so ? :)
[10:11] <fabbione> seb128: keeping an eye on daniels :P
[10:11] <seb128> ah ah
[10:11] <fabbione> if he fucks up i am going to hunt him down like an eagle on a rat
[10:12] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: you're not going to be doing X maintenance for debian or ubuntu?
[10:12] <fabbione> ubuntu
[10:12] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) whatcha going to be doing?
[10:13] <fabbione> jdub: other stuff
[10:13] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) heh
[10:13] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) no kidding!
[10:13] <daniels> fabbione: yeah
[10:13] <daniels> fabbione: not now though
[10:13] <daniels> fabbione: if i'm not working and i'm behind a computer, it's fd.o
[10:14] <fabbione> daniels: j/k kid :P
[10:14] <fabbione> daniels: for the presentation it's enough we think about something during Mataro
[10:14] <fabbione> no need to do it *right now*
[10:14] <daniels> yeah
[10:29] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: ?
[10:33] (lifeless/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: so how is the recovery coming?
[10:35] <FTTP> hi
[10:35] <FTTP> fabio! :)
[10:35] <fabbione> yes?
[10:36] <FTTP> i sent u a bug report earlier 
[10:36] <mxpxpod> daniels: any progress on the xorg utf-8 thing?
[10:36] <FTTP> dunno if its a bug or not 
[10:37] <FTTP> fabbione:  is there a workaround for monitors that dont provide appropriate DDC?
[10:37] <fabbione> no
[10:37] <fabbione> FTTP = Adam?
[10:37] <FTTP> yep
[10:37] <FTTP> i left some comment
[10:37] <FTTP> s
[10:38] <fabbione> i am reading them now
[10:38] <FTTP> ok
[10:38] <FTTP> i only put reopen cause i had some additional comments
[10:38] <FTTP> not sure if it was worthy of reopen
[10:39] <fabbione> "am I correct in assuming that Windows 
[10:39] <fabbione> cant correctly detect this information either? "
[10:39] <fabbione> yes
[10:39] <daniels> mxpxpod: fixed
[10:39] <FTTP> i figured that
[10:39] <daniels> lifeless: yeah, not too bad thanks
[10:39] <fabbione> if it detects higher rates than what the monitor can really handle it's a bug
[10:39] <mxpxpod> daniels: nice
[10:39] <daniels> lifeless: just making LDAP my bitch
[10:39] <pitti> elmo: back, phone
[10:39] <mxpxpod> daniels: when's it going to be uploaded?
[10:39] <fabbione> FTTP: also.. there are monitors that claims to be DDC compliant and they are not
[10:39] <fabbione> FTTP: it won't be the first time
[10:40] <daniels> mxpxpod: probably two days
[10:40] <FTTP> fabbione:  right..... i understand.....
[10:40] <fabbione> FTTP: nv or nvidia makes no difference. The driver comes from the same people
[10:40] <fabbione> FTTP: other than 3d features
[10:40] <mxpxpod> daniels: also, what's up with fonts on xorg... example: http://www.reigndropsfall.net/screenshots/coaster-main.png compared to http://www.reigndropsfall.net/screenshots/coaster-main-new.png
[10:40] <fabbione> it's exactly the same crap
[10:40] <FTTP> fabbione:   ok, on the refresh rate issue
[10:41] <fabbione> FTTP: please wait for the next X release. We have a bunch of updates for the nv driver
[10:41] (lifeless/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: cool
[10:41] <FTTP> fabbione:  Yep :)
[10:41] <fabbione> iirc it includes also something DDC related
[10:41] <daniels> mxpxpod: they look nice on -new and crap on -main?
[10:41] <fabbione> FTTP: i am talking about X.org 1ubuntu4 at least
[10:41] <mxpxpod> daniels: they look strange on -new
[10:41] <fabbione> not the one that come out today
[10:42] <FTTP> fabbione:  can the xfree you use tho handle the higher refresh rates where its just an X config problem?
[10:42] <mxpxpod> daniels: I guess I'm just used to the way they look in -main
[10:42] <fabbione> FTTP: as last thing, please add your config file and /var/log/Xorg.0.og to the bug
[10:42] <daniels> mxpxpod: to me, that's a 100% improvement :)
[10:42] <mxpxpod> daniels: really?
[10:42] <daniels> yah
[10:42] <fabbione> FTTP: that's a very hairy thing.
[10:43] <FTTP> fabbione:  Hairy? 
[10:43] <spotter> anyone here suffering from frequent crashes in evolution in hoary?
[10:43] <mxpxpod> daniels: to me, it looks like the letters are running into each other
[10:43] <fabbione> FTTP: the protocol works more or less in this way:
[10:43] <daniels> mxpxpod: mmm
[10:43] <FTTP> fabbione:  See my monitor can do higher refresh rates in windows ......
[10:43] <fabbione> FTTP: driver attempts to detect rates.
[10:43] <mxpxpod> daniels: especially when e and a are together
[10:43] <FTTP> im wondering if its just the xfree config file causing the lower rates to be used
[10:43] (ironwolf/#ubuntu-devel) spotter: yes *must be daniels fault*
[10:43] <fabbione> FTTP: than it grabs the info from the config file
[10:44] <fabbione> FTTP: let me finish please :-)
[10:44] <fabbione> FTTP: now the black magic happen
[10:44] <fabbione> FTTP: where there are 4 combinations
[10:45] <fabbione> a) ddc return - data in config file -> driver uses the safest data from the two set of info
[10:45] <fabbione> so for ex.
[10:45] <mxpxpod> daniels: btw, you've done a good job on xorg for ubuntu
[10:45] <daniels> thanks
[10:45] <fabbione> ddc returns a VertSync 49-120
[10:45] <daniels> fabbione needs credit for xorg too tho
[10:45] <fabbione> config has 50-80
[10:46] <fabbione> hem
[10:46] <fabbione> config has 40-80
[10:46] <fabbione> the safe value is 49-80
[10:46] <mxpxpod> fabbione: good job
[10:46] <fabbione> mxpxpod: thanks :-)
[10:46] <fabbione> FTTP: are you following me?
[10:46] <mxpxpod> I didn't think any debian based distro would have it for years
[10:46] <mxpxpod> :)
[10:46] <FTTP> yep
[10:46] <fabbione> b) ddc return - no config info
[10:47] <fabbione> the driver has to trust the ddc info
[10:47] <fabbione> c) no ddc return - config info
[10:47] <fabbione> the driver trust what you say
[10:47] <fabbione> d) no ddc - no config
[10:47] <fabbione> the driver goes bana
[10:47] <fabbione> banana
[10:47] <fabbione> so basically the combination is not simple
[10:47] <fabbione> in your case you might have to try to disable the values in the config
[10:48] <FTTP> gotcha
[10:48] <fabbione> but this is something we canNOT do by default
[10:48] <fabbione> we can't allow people to hit case d)
[10:48] <FTTP> fabbione:  it did an excellent job in making it work
[10:49] <fabbione> that's because we chose a safe and reliable path
[10:49] <fabbione> for "details"
[10:49] <fabbione> that's up to the user
[10:49] <fabbione> we can't push over what we know
[10:49] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: if you need me to punch ironwolf, just say so. :-)
[10:49] <fabbione> simply because i can't efford to start replacing monitors all over the glob
[10:50] <fabbione> globe
[10:50] <jdz_> fabbione, very good to know, thanks!
[10:50] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) oh wait, common guest-rules prevent that.
[10:50] <fabbione> ironwolf: ?!?!
[10:50] <FTTP> right....... would be nice tho if those could be selected in an easier manner 
[10:50] (ironwolf/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: was in response to something someone said.
[10:51] <fabbione> FTTP: we are going to re-discuss the autodetection implementation in Mataro during DecConf
[10:51] <FTTP> ok thanks :)
[10:51] <FTTP> fabbione:  Seems like you already know about this stuff 
[10:51] <fabbione> FTTP: it's kinda like because i have been maintaing X for almost a year?
[10:51] <fabbione> FTTP: if you want some fun try this:
[10:51] <FTTP> fabbione:  no no i mean the bug i reported which is not a bug :)
[10:51] <fabbione> exit from X
[10:52] <FTTP> yeah your work is excellent
[10:52] (infinity/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione : That IS fun!
[10:52] <fabbione> mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup
[10:52] <fabbione> and restart X
[10:52] <FTTP> im not in linux right now but ill try that 
[10:52] <fabbione> you will test the new Xorg autodetecion policy engine
[10:52] <fabbione> no need to reconfigure anything
[10:52] <fabbione> just run it :)
[10:52] <FTTP> sounds kewl
[10:53] <fabbione> FTTP: we don't know how good it is yet
[10:53] <FTTP> fabbione did u put the files u wanted me to send over in the bug report ?
[10:53] <FTTP> easier for me to remember that way
[10:53] <fabbione> FTTP: i can't put YOUR files in the bug report :-)
[10:53] <FTTP> no i mean the names
[10:53] <fabbione> just your config and your Xorg.0.log
[10:53] <fabbione> no i didn't
[10:53] <fabbione>  /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[10:54] <FTTP> well ill just save that to notepad, no biggie
[10:54] <FTTP> im in windows now
[10:54] <FTTP> oh u mean for the new xorg detection mechanism?
[10:54] <FTTP> should i send both over? 
[10:55] <fabbione> no.. only the normal one please
[10:55] <fabbione> play and experiment AFTER
[10:55] <FTTP> ok
[10:56] <FTTP> fabbione wait xorg.conf is the config file?
[10:56] <fabbione> yes
[10:56] <FTTP> for the current ?
[10:56] <FTTP> ok
[10:56] <FTTP> confused me there
[10:57] <fabbione>  jdz_ runs off to try it
[10:57] <fabbione> i killed a user
[10:57] <fabbione> if he is not back in the next 2 minutes, there will be a new bug report for daniels
[10:59] <FTTP> quick question for any takers:  i need to redo my grub boot partition cause i had problems with windows 
[10:59] <FTTP> whats the easiest way for me to reinstall grub without being able to get into my system?
[11:00] <FTTP> kinda sounds stupid i know 

[11:00] <fabbione> FTTP: this is more for #ubuntu :P
[11:00] <FTTP> yeah i tried what they said 
[11:00] <FTTP> couldnt get it to work 
[11:01] <FTTP> oh well ill ask there again, thanx
[11:01] <FTTP> maybe i did it wrong
[11:02] <FTTP> its coming across nicely tho
[11:02] <FTTP> cant wait for hoary :)
[11:03] <fabbione> good night everybody
[11:04] (sivang/#ubuntu-devel) night fabbione
[11:04] <FTTP> night fabbione
[11:04] <FTTP> thanks 
[11:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: ??
[11:09] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) +ackages.gz  Sub-process bzip2 returned an error code (100)
[11:09] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) grumble
[11:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) 26-7=19.  4 hours probably too long
[11:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) grumble
[11:13] (ironwolf/#ubuntu-devel) night fabbione
[11:14] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: you around?
[11:14] <seb128> yes
[11:14] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) why does python-gtk2_2.4.1.orig.tar.gz have a bogus md5sum?
[11:14] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) grumble.
[11:14] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) just had the need to bitch, and all that.
[11:15] <mvo_> lamont_r: where did you got the "Packages.gz Sub-progcess bzip2" error?
[11:15] <seb128> the md5 is bogus ? or that was you ? :)
[11:15] <seb128> I got this one too
[11:15] <seb128> on a fresh install while doing an apt-get update
[11:15] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: that was the latest round of debian-installer build failures.
[11:15] <seb128> bzip2 was not installed
[11:16] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) fixed by upgrading apt to the current version
[11:16] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) right.
[11:16] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) 0.5.30ubuntu1 Depends: bzip2 
[11:16] <mvo_> ah, great
[11:18] <seb128> should not, I've not changed the orig.tar.gz in hoary
[11:19] <seb128> jdub: around ?
[11:34] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: and bug filed with debian
[11:35] <mvo_> lamont_r: about the bzip2? 
[11:36] <mvo_> it's not yet in debian apt IIRC
[11:36] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) yes
[11:36] <mvo_> I wrote it yesterday I think
[11:36] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Why install postfix at all ? Procmail would do the same job.
[11:36] <mvo_> or the day before maybe
[11:37] <mvo_> isn't that cool? we file bugs before they even can happen ;)
[11:41] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: I figured it was mdz's package, with a debian-native version number, so _must_ be in debian, right?
[11:41] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) except that the bug is in .30, and debian has .27... oops.
[11:44] <mvo_> yeah
[11:44] <mvo_> he will merge the stuff pretty soon I guess
[11:45] <mvo_> IIRC there is nothing ubuntu specific in the diffs
[11:45] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) well, he has to get back from vacation first. :-)
[11:45] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) or whatever he's doing that he's away from the computer...
[11:46] <mvo_> heh :) he'll be back on monday I think?
[11:46] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[11:51] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: here
[11:52] <seb128> jdub: could you comment on #3871 :)
[11:52] <seb128> +?
[11:52] <seb128> I don't remember exactly the details of what we have decided about this
[11:53] <pitti> Kamion: still here?
[11:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: definitely no template files by default
[11:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: as discussed on list
[11:54] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: actually seeding the directories... undecided. :)
[11:54] <pitti> daniels: here?
[11:54] <daniels> sup
[11:54] <daniels> ah, yeah
[11:54] <daniels> wanted to talk to you about the CAN stuff
[11:55] <daniels> it appears CAN 0914(?) is relevant to our xfree86 update (sigh; I explicitly asked if there was a new one, and was told no)
[11:57] <seb128> jdub: ok, so no decision about if/where ~/Templates should be created ...
[11:57] <seb128> jdub: thanks