[12:14] <pitti> OUT NOW: new warty kernels
[12:14] <seb128> jdub: what's the rationnal to not provide any Templates ? I've read the discussion about this, the idea has been finally dropped but not sure of why
[12:15] <pitti> advisory novel sent out, kthxbye and good night everybody!
[12:15] <seb128> 'night pitti 
[12:15] <pitti> Night seb128!
[12:16] <daniels> night pitti
[12:17] <mvo_> night pitti 
[12:17] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: that's the user's space. if we add templates, admins add templates, packages add templates, and everyone adds templates... it'll be as useless as the Windows "New" menu
[12:18] <seb128> right ..
[12:30] <calc> so the user has to make their own templates?
[12:31] <calc> or copy them into a special dir from somewhere else?
[12:33] <daniels> jdub: THE ONLY THING WE FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF
[12:34] <daniels> jdub: (AND DAVID HASSELHOLF RAPPING)
[12:34] <Keybuk> pingu++
[12:34] <daniels> glc++
[12:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont_r: apt depending on bzip2 sounds bogus, since that makes bzip2 effectively Essential: yes; can't it just fall back quietly to gzip if bzip2 isn't installed?
[12:54] <mvo_> Kamion: I can do this tomorrow
[12:57] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: thanks
[01:51] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: very true...
[01:53] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: was after something to unbreak the archive, as in 'fix it right now to not be dead anymore'...
[02:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) $ cat /proc/cpufreq
[02:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel)           minimum CPU frequency  -  maximum CPU frequency  -  policy
[02:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) CPU  0       600000 kHz ( 42 %)  -    1000000 kHz ( 71 %)  -  userspace
[02:53] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) 
[02:54] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) eh, bong
[02:54] <daniels> jdub: 600MHz -> 1GHz?
[02:54] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) mmm, should be 1.4 (100%)
[02:59] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: Doesn't that just mean that userspace has set the maximum frequency to 1GHz?
[03:00] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) what's set it?
[03:00] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) Dunno
[03:00] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) The proc interface is deprecated, anyway
[03:00] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) Fiddle with stuff in /sys
[03:01] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) $ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_max_freq
[03:01] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) 1400000
[03:04] <shaya> is sed safe again?
[03:04] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) yes
[03:14] <moyogo> ahhh, my nautilus and gnome-panel are dead
[04:01] <lamont_p> moo
[04:02] <lamont_p> palm ui sucks for irc
[04:03] <lamont_p> l8R
[04:17] <mxpxpod> daniels: ping
[04:20] <daniels> pong
[04:20] <mxpxpod> daniels: ok, I have another font issue... tiles look like hash marks with bitstream vera sans
[04:20] <daniels> i have no idea, sorry
[04:20] <daniels> fonts hurt my head
[04:21] <mxpxpod> daniels: ok, didn't know if you knew
[04:22] <mxpxpod> daniels: what do you have your dpi set to?
[04:23] <daniels> 75, probably
[04:42] <lamont_p> sigh.  ma
[04:42] <lamont_p> x chan count of _2_
[08:36] <fabbione> morning
[08:59] <pitti> Morning everybody!
[09:00] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: mm, sounds nice :) morning
[09:00] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) it's very, very hot here
[09:00] <pitti> jdub: we have -1C here
[09:00] <pitti> jdub: for me it's odd to imagine to celebrate Xmas in short pants :-)
[09:05] (jk/#ubuntu-devel) 22:40 @     Xiph| maar op de HCC stond er een meisje
[09:05] (jk/#ubuntu-devel) 22:40 @     Xiph| en die was _zo_ _mooi_
[09:05] (jk/#ubuntu-devel) oops
[09:07] <tuo2> pitti: it's 22c here atm.
[09:07] <pitti> wow
[09:14] <fabbione> pitti: just for lazyness, is the CAN for the kernel fixed in hoary?
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: according to Herbert yes
[09:14] <fabbione> ok
[09:14] <fabbione> cool
[09:15] <fabbione> Total 197 package(s)
[09:15] <fabbione> uhhh
[09:15] <fabbione> (left to build on phase0)
[09:36] <fabbione> hmmm
[09:37] <fabbione> i think we overlooked something...
[09:37] <fabbione> xfree86 in warty ubuntu25.1
[09:37] <fabbione> in hoary 25
[09:37] <fabbione> we should probably do the last xfree86 upload with server only
[09:37] <fabbione> and the security fix
[09:38] <fabbione> even if it is not involved
[09:38] <fabbione> that would alligm the packages properly
[09:40] <fabbione> otherwise the source is still contaminated
[09:54] <seb128> morning
[09:57] <fabbione> morning seb :-)
[10:07] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: daniels up yet?
[10:07] <fabbione> lamont_r: no idea... he is uk
[10:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: gnome-applets wasn't happy yesterday, btw
[10:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: ah, ok
[10:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/daniels/ has ia64 MANIFEST for xorg
[10:08] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) and I'm going to sleep now.
[10:08] <fabbione> lamont_r: cool thanks
[10:09] <fabbione> did you add .ia64 .ia64.new ?
[10:09] <fabbione> because we need both
[10:09] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: debian/*ia64*
[10:09] <fabbione> cool
[10:10] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) and msg'ed to him as well. :-)
[10:10] <fabbione> night :-)
[10:25] <pitti> thx
[10:26] <pitti> jdub: I don't really understand why David insists on the "root, root everywhere" paradigma
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: Hi! Thanks for demozillafying swfdec! Was it reasonably easy?
[10:27] <seb128> np, yes it was pretty easy
[10:27] <trukulo> hi ppl
[10:27] <seb128> morning
[10:27] <trukulo> morning too :)
[10:28] <pitti> mvo_: Egon! I always knew!!! Now it's public
[10:29] <mvo_> morning pitti 
[10:29] <pitti> mvo_: Morning! :-) BTW, you should correct the subject of your activity reports if you send them after midnight :-)
[10:30] <mvo_> I should stop working before midnight :)
[10:31] <pitti> mvo_: I have told this to myself for weeks now, but I eventually gave up
[10:31] <mvo_> it's a hard time for security people. too many things to fix :/
[10:32] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: vicious kernel update, btw.
[10:32] <pitti> mvo_: actually it calmed down a little. Three weeks ago I did nothing else, though
[10:32] <pitti> jdub: why, did something break?
[10:33] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: no, just the number of fixes
[10:33] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) surprising and scary
[10:33] <pitti> jdub: oh, yes. It was half a novel of an advisory :-)
[10:33] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) started reading the advisory... "ow, that's bad"... "oh, there's more"... "oh, more..."
[10:34] <pitti> jdub: but given the amount of time, monkeys and typewriters that you actually need to exploit this ELF bug, delaying the update to accumulate some patches did not really hurt
[10:34] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) heh
[10:34] <pitti> jdub: the smbfs thingy was more serious, though
[10:37] <fabbione> hey daniels 
[10:37] <pitti> Hi daniels 
[10:37] <fabbione> daniels: we need to do a xfree86 upload into hoary
[10:37] <daniels> fabbione: mmm
[10:38] <fabbione> hoary: ubuntu25 <- no sec fix
[10:38] <daniels> we can just retarget .1 to hoary
[10:38] <fabbione> warty: ubuntu25.1 + security fix
[10:38] <fabbione> no we can't
[10:38] <fabbione> let me finish
[10:38] <fabbione> the source is contaminated
[10:38] <fabbione> so
[10:38] <fabbione> my idea is to upload a .26 that will build only the servers
[10:38] <fabbione> that's all we need at the end
[10:39] <fabbione> and after that move them into universe
[10:39] <daniels> what do you mean, source is contaminated?
[10:39] <fabbione> daniels: if you do apt-get source xfree86 in hoary
[10:39] <trukulo> fabbione, do you know where can i find nxfree packages for debian? want to make a test about that on conferences
[10:39] <fabbione> you don't get the security update
[10:39] <fabbione> trukulo: no sorry
[10:40] <trukulo> and you daniels ?
[10:40] <trukulo> now that kalyxo and fdo are down...
[10:40] <fabbione> daniels: the changes should be pretty simple.. so i can take care of it
[10:40] <daniels> trukulo: dunno, i only knew it was hosted on kalyxo
[10:40] <fabbione> daniels: there is no need for you to work on it
[10:41] <trukulo> thx anyway
[10:41] <daniels> fabbione: right -- so why not just do a ubuntu26 with no changes other than 25->25.1?
[10:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) trukulo: Mithrandir might know, when he's around
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: because a simple .26 will bring all the libs with it
[10:41] <trukulo> thanks jdub, i'll ask him
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: and katie will reject the upload
[10:41] <daniels> ok
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: because there are newer versions from x.org
[10:42] <fabbione> to be more precise katie will reject the binaries from the buildd
[10:42] <daniels> right
[10:42] <fabbione> not the source
[10:42] <daniels> personally I think we could well kill off xfree86 in hoary altogether, but -- your call
[10:43] <fabbione> daniels: i think we should keep it around still for a little bit
[10:43] <fabbione> specially when a massive amount of people will start switching to hoary
[10:43] <fabbione> but for sure we will kill it before release
[10:44] <fabbione> i would say to keep it around until the beginning of Febrary
[10:44] <fabbione> February even
[10:45] <daniels> ok
[10:45] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync pmount 0.4.2-1 from Debian? 
[10:45] <fabbione> just that people can still switch back and forward if needed
[10:45] <daniels> is there really a call for doing that, thought?
[10:45] <daniels> s/thought/though/
[10:45] <daniels> given how much of '4.3.0' was really from xorg
[10:45] <fabbione> daniels: well our x.org isn't that spreaded around yet
[10:46] <daniels> right
[10:46] <daniels> but if we create an xserver-xfree86 package that just deps xserver-xorg ...
[10:46] <fabbione> so if the new server doesn't work for somebody and the fix can take long time
[10:46] <fabbione> they can still revert and use the old one
[10:46] <daniels> i think that kind of regression would be staggeringly rare, though
[10:46] <fabbione> i agree, but it is still a possibility
[10:46] <daniels> i mean, given nv was from xorg wholesale, and massive chunks of ati were also
[10:46] <pitti> fabbione: do the irc logs have a new URL? The old one just gives 404
[10:47] <tuo2> daniels: how's the recovery going?
[10:47] <fabbione> pitti: yes.
[10:47] <daniels> alright, your call -- I just think we should take the opportunity to trim down our hoary support obligations
[10:47] <daniels> tuo2: very, very good
[10:47] <fabbione> daniels: moving it to universe = no support
[10:48] <fabbione> daniels: just a goodie for people to revert if required
[10:48] <tuo2> daniels: nice one. Normally a compromise recovery is a PITA.
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, wrong question. Can you please tell me the new URL? :-)
[10:48] <daniels> fabbione: i suppose
[10:48] <fabbione> pitti: there is a temporary URL, but i forgot to tell elmo to add the alias
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: people.u.c/~fabbione/
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: ah, thanks
[10:49] <fabbione> no problem
[10:49] <daniels> tuo2: yes, but the amount of stuff we got done last night (i got ldap authentication and userdir-ldap working, plus dns, mail and the lists processing, plus got a couple of archives up; infinity and cworth got moin and virtual hosting working properly; keithp got pserver working)
[10:49] <daniels> tuo2: plus the fact we're doing it really well, unlike the previous pile of shit
[10:49] <daniels> anyway, off-topic
[10:58] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: I don't see why removing any entries from /etc/hosts should change anything, as the application gets the IPv6 address to connect to from DNS.
[10:59] <fabbione> hey Mithrandir 
[10:59] <trukulo> Mithrandir, do you know where i can get freenx that were on kalyxo?
[10:59] <trukulo> and morning
[10:59] <fabbione> trukulo: why not trying googling?
[10:59] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) hi fabbione, trukulo
[10:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i found something you can start to play with :-)
[11:00] <trukulo> fabbione, i did
[11:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: linux-kernel-*_sparc.deb ;)
[11:00] <trukulo> but fdo and kalyxo are down
[11:00] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: rock.
[11:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that needs quite a lot of love..
[11:00] <Matt|> *laughs*
[11:00] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) trukulo: it's freedesktop.org; daniels is working on it and it should be back withing a few days.
[11:01] <fabbione> Mithrandir: and clearly we will need the *-di-* kernel too
[11:01] <trukulo> ok, thx anyway, but i already know that
[11:01] <trukulo> try to continue searching
[11:01] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) trukulo: I'd just wait a few days
[11:02] <trukulo> yes, but i want them to make a demo for conference, and want to try them well before
[11:03] <trukulo> ok, forget me and keep on working :)
[11:08] <seb128> Kamion: not sure than "nautilus" is better than "UNKNOW" if the bug is not a nautilus one ... do we have a "general" component or something like that ?
[11:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: afraid not
[11:09] <seb128> Kamion: if that's "nautilus" it'll stay on my list and nobody is going to handle it
[11:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) where would be better?
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I was assuming that it must be some part of GNOME
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's certainly not the job of anything beneath that
[11:10] <seb128> or skel :)
[11:10] <fabbione> daniels: does the patch from x.org/patches include the previous CAN fixes or it has to be applied on top?
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeuch, if I could veto that I would
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) even so, it would be GNOME's responsibility to add it to skel if such a solution were being considered
[11:11] <seb128> we already had this discussion
[11:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it is not the responsibility of the base system, definitely
[11:11] <seb128> right
[11:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) so ... is there a suitable base GNOME package?
[11:11] <seb128> the problem with the assignement to nautilus is that it's in y list of bug and I'm not going to take a decision on this
[11:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if not I guess assigned to you but component UNKNOWN would be workable
[11:12] <seb128> I'll reassign to mdz or jdub
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) bleh, ok
[11:12] <seb128> the problem is:
[11:12] <seb128> 1- I'm not sure we need to create it by default
[11:12] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: you're okay with other packages adding stuff to skel?
[11:12] <seb128> 2- which part should create it (the installation or an app)
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: oh, sorry, I didn't realise that you had already reassigned it to UNKNOWN
[11:13] <seb128> np
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: I wish bugzilla showed me that in the web history of the bug
[11:13] <seb128> we should have a component "general distro issue"
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: /etc/skel is *there* for other packages to add stuff to; but since you ask I'm not OK with non-dotfiles being created there
[11:13] <seb128> jdub: doable ?
[11:14] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: i didn't think your earlier explanation was convincing enough for me to see why it was dangerous. it sounded more like "obviously it is bad". could you write some more about why it's a bad idea in that bug?
[11:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: it means that users who never use the desktop get this directory they never care about, and it suggests that some part of GNOME has a bug because it's relying on /etc/skel and adduser to create a directory it should be taking care of itself.
[11:15] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) this isn't a gnome policy thouhg, it's a distro policy
[11:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: also, some people use useradd, which doesn't create that directory (it was even in some documentation on our wiki for a while)
[11:15] <seb128> GNOME doesn't rely on it, it just use it if available
[11:15] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it also means only locally created users will get the directory
[11:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: indeed, was just going to get on to that
[11:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) NIS/NFS systems are a reality
[11:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: distros can patch GNOME :)
[11:16] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) as well as systems being upgraded from what we have now.
[11:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: by "GNOME bug" I mean "bug in GNOME as configured for us"
[11:16] <daniels> fabbione: 6.8.1 includes the fixes for 0687 and 0688 already, so it needs to be applied on top of the existing package
[11:17] <fabbione> daniels: i was more wondering about xfree86 :-)
[11:17] <daniels> fabbione: er yeah, just badly phrased, sorry
[11:17] <daniels> fabbione: so you'll need to apply it on top of the 0687/0688 fixes you already have
[11:17] <fabbione> did you apply that patch on top 000_stolen_from_x.org.diff ?
[11:17] <fabbione> ok
[11:17] <fabbione> thanks
[11:17] <daniels> except!
[11:18] <daniels> it looks like that code changed in x.org (hurrah!)
[11:18] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: done
[11:18] <daniels> so you need to dig the original xpm-sec7.patch (or .diff) from your mailbox, and use that instead
[11:18] <daniels> because that applies cleanly against xfree86 with the 0687/0688 patch
[11:18] <fabbione> daniels: ah ok
[11:18] <fabbione> i was rediffin the other one
[11:19] <daniels> walking that route is pain; just grab mathieu's xpm-sec7 and apply it on top of what you have already
[11:19] <fabbione> cool
[11:19] <fabbione> thanks
[11:19] <daniels> no worries
[11:21] <fabbione> i got the same rejects
[11:21] <fabbione> never mind
[11:22] <fabbione> they are trivial to fix
[11:22] <fabbione> most of them just white spaces
[11:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: comments added to bug
[11:23] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: (I have a "New Ubuntu bugs" query; I've been trying to go through it each morning and assign as many of the debzilla@ubuntu.com / UNKNOWN bugs somewhere, since they tend to get lost otherwise ...)
[11:24] <daniels> fabbione: remove #099d
[11:24] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: thanks!
[11:24] <daniels> fabbione: #099d is the single thing that's breaking UTF-8 support
[11:24] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: did you have time to try those multisync packages?
[11:24] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: yeah, i was telling you about them as i was using them :)
[11:25] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) ah, so they work for you?
[11:25] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[11:25] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) yes
[11:25] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) but multisync makes me cry :|
[11:25] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, yeah
[11:26] <fabbione> daniels: ah
[11:26] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) there was an initial opensync release last week I believe
[11:26] <seb128> Kamion: right. We should have a "general purpose" component 
[11:26] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: would be fine by me
[11:26] <seb128> jdub: "general purpose" component doable ? :)
[11:26] <seb128> or whatever is the name
[11:26] <seb128> a component for general distro issues
[11:26] <daniels> fabbione: how were the manpages actually corrupted?
[11:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: (workflow: UNKNOWN = nobody has dealt with this yet; general = somebody has looked at this, but diagnosis suggests it requires widespread changes)
[11:27] <fabbione> daniels: there were __something__ not being parsed properly
[11:27] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: yeah
[11:27] <daniels> fabbione: blah
[11:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, we have a lot of open merge bugs on universe
[11:28] <daniels> fabbione: right now I'll take the manpage hit for UTF-8 in Hoary
[11:28] <daniels> fabbione: i'll open up the Debian bug and we can work on it
[11:28] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: what was the directory creatino bug # ?
[11:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: <perks up> man page bugs?
[11:29] <fabbione> daniels: the problem is only in xorg
[11:29] <fabbione> daniels: due to that crackified patch
[11:29] <daniels> Kamion: http://bugs.debian.org/259996
[11:29] <daniels> Kamion: the patch for that is what's smacking UTF-8 locales to hell in Hoary
[11:29] <seb128> jdub: 3871
[11:30] <daniels> Kamion: since you're our cheap imit^W^Wnew shiny mdz, d'you know if there's any way to import Debian bugs into our BZZ?
[11:30] <daniels> s/BZZ/BZ/
[11:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: I know (in the abstract) how mdz did it, but I don't have access ...
[11:31] <daniels> ahr
[11:31] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: who's got access to debzilla on macquarie? AFAIK it runs under mdz's userid or something similarly crackful
[11:31] <daniels> yeah, it involves SSHing to macquarie (which I can't do), as mdz (which I can't do), and then running a script :)
[11:32] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: yes, it is :(
[11:32] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) if you know what commands to run, I can do that
[11:32] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: I don't, I'm afraid; might be able to find out
[11:33] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: thanks
[11:33] <seb128> np
[11:33] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: what was wrong with the original man page text? the hyphens?
[11:33] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: or something else?
[11:34] <daniels> Kamion: the bug report's too incoherent for me to decipher
[11:34] <daniels> Kamion: i plan to revert the patch and see ofr myself
[11:34] <daniels> Kamion: but it looks like there's raw '\n' in the stream?
[11:34] <mvo_> is there a opionion about putting libgnome2-perl into main? it's needed by debconf if you want a non-text frontend.
[11:34] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: I *believe* it's 'debzilla-sync <bug numbers>', but I don't know if there's any weird environment crap required
[11:34] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: mdz's .bash_history might be greppable for that? :)
[11:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: it sounded reasonable to me when it was last suggested
[11:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: was libgnome2-perl left out deliberately, or as an oversight?
[11:35] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) left out of main?
[11:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I guess it pulls in a bunch of perl stuff, let's see
[11:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[11:36] <mvo_> it's only 4 perl modules that a not yet in main (according to a shallow dependency view)
[11:36] <mvo_> libglib-perl, libgnome2-canvas-perl, libgnome2-vfs-perl, libgtk2-perl
[11:36] <daniels> Kamion: heh
[11:37] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: \n> oh, I see, can't say I can decipher the bug report either
[11:37] <daniels> Kamion: well, let's find out, shall we? :)
[11:37] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: perhaps it's that the trailing backslash is missing? comparing to current xterm(1) ...
[11:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: (the UTF-8 hyphen thing is due to using - rather than \-, BTW)
[11:39] <daniels> Kamion: er, current xterm(1) is broken as hell anyway
[11:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) current in Debian ...
[11:39] <daniels> Kamion: 'The default bindings in the VT102 window are:' -- everything below here is absolute arse
[11:39] <daniels> Kamion: well, Ubuntu
[11:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: nothing depended on it, wasn't of great interest, etc. :)
[11:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it looks OK to me on Debian, there's some overflowing lines but apart from that it's fine
[11:40] <daniels> wtf?
[11:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: ah, we missed the suggests from debconf then
[11:40] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, it's broken as hell on Ubuntu, UTF-8 or not
[11:40] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: (i don't buy into supporting the bindings if we don't have anything or anyone (customers, user demand) that uses them)
[11:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) bleh! yes
[11:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: synaptic wants to pop up the GNOME frontend to debconf by default
[11:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: so will we, eventually :)
[11:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) (graphical d-i => graphical base-config)
[11:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[11:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) sucks the salt out of baby jesus' eye sockets
[11:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: oh, I see, newlines being eaten
[11:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: depends on the direction you're coming at it from; you could argue that a generated gui is better than no gui
[11:43] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) i wouldn't
[11:43] <daniels> jdub: heh!
[11:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) at least for consistency of presentation if you have other gui pieces
[11:43] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) no gui means no stupid questions :-)
[11:43] <daniels> jdub: body shots off baby jesus?
[11:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: you'd rather have some gui bits and then flip back to text mode?
[11:43] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: don't tell sabdfl 
[11:43] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: no stupid questions! :)
[11:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub, meet reality ;-)
[11:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: gui != questions, consider progress bar for installing packages
[11:44] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) ...
[11:44] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) no stupid questions!
[11:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) (not that we have one of those in debconf yet, but we will)
[11:44] <daniels> Kamion: we tried introducing them once before, but they just sort of sat across the room and scowled at each other, then jeff told his friend to tell reality he was a tool
[11:45] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) it's bloody hard making a generated gui work nicely
[11:45] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) so hard, i don't think it's worth bothering
[11:46] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) you end up with ncurses + 3d buttons
[11:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's perfectly fine for simple dialogs
[11:46] <daniels> jdub: THREE DEE
[11:46] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: dude, you could use zenity for all the d-i gui stuff :)
[11:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: yabbut that's all you need for a package-installation progress bar
[11:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) zenity? *looks*
[11:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) heh
[11:47] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) it's pretty rad
[11:47] <mvo_> jdub: so you rather would like to remove the "configure" menu option in synaptic? 
[11:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) well, debconf supports Xdialog, so theoretically
[11:48] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: settings menu?
[11:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) not sure it wouldn't be a major negative surprise to people running debconf in an xterm though
[11:48] <mvo_> there is a option to configure debconf packages in synaptic. it depends on libgnome2-perl though. 
[11:48] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) oh right
[11:48] <seb128> elmo: gnome-keyring sync please
[11:48] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, that's what Kamion was talking about
[11:49] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: done
[11:49] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) also, if we're doing graphical base-config, I rather suspect it won't have a terminal at all, which will make it difficult to revert to text mode ;)
[11:50] <mvo_> I just wonder if we shouldn't remove the option from synaptic if we don't want libgnome2-perl in main anyway
[11:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: looks like I want it in main and jdub disagrees
[11:50] <mvo_> it has my vote for main too :)
[11:50] <daniels> hold on ... we branched off -6
[11:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) anyone want to do an equivalent of /usr/share/pixmaps/debian-logo.png for Ubuntu, for the debconf GNOME frontend?
[11:50] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: oh, i don't disagree, just saying what we did for warty
[11:51] <daniels> Kamion: could you please set a UTF-8 locale in sid (4.3.0.dfsg.1-7) and tell me if it's arse?
[11:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: I run UTF-8 pretty much everywhere
[11:51] <daniels> Kamion: quickest way to tell is to start gedit on the console and see if it bitches really loudly
[11:51] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: yeah
[11:51] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: file me a bug :)
[11:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mkay :)
[11:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hey, how come I can't reassign bugs to the Live CD product?
[11:53] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[11:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: ah, ok; mind if I add it to supported now then?
[11:57] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) ok
[12:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: done, not installed by default though
[12:01] <mvo_> Kamion: thanks!
[12:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: please sync bittornado (universe)
[12:17] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: please sync bayonne (universe); capi20 support added upstream so the warty change is obsolete now
[12:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: please sync aqsis (universe); libtiff4 transition done in Debian
[12:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: please sync albatross (universe)
[12:20] <lupus_> xmms is broken in woody after recent security updates
[12:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) woody?
[12:23] <fabbione> elmo: can you compare ubuntu python-gtk2_2.4.1-1 orig with the debian one? apparently there are some md5sum mismatches.
[12:24] <fabbione> elmo: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/python-gtk2/2.4.1-1/
[12:25] <fabbione> apparently the 2 are different
[12:25] <fabbione> andour is wrong
[12:25] <fabbione> and our
[12:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: please sync camlimages, cinepaint, ctypes, djvulibre, dx, ecasound (universe); misc build-dep stuff all fixed in Debian
[12:28] <fabbione> Kamion: is there any showstopper on hoary d-i ?
[12:28] <fabbione> or can we start testing it?
[12:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: array cd 1 works fine; you can try it in hoary dailies but it's in major flux right now so expect breakage :)
[12:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: (though feel free to report breakage)
[12:30] <fabbione> Kamion: sure..
[12:32] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I'm just in the middle of switching to udev/hotplug
[12:32] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: apt upload> yay, thanks
[12:33] <fabbione> Kamion: cool
[12:34] <mvo_> Kamion: yeah, I broke it afterall :P
[12:37] <lupus_> I mean
[12:37] <lupus_> warty
[12:37] <lupus_> sorry
[12:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lupus_: please file a bug with details
[12:56] <seb128> grrr
[12:56] <seb128> the proftpd upgrade has broken my ftp
[01:16] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: dude, anyone can do that - if it's different, it's because a different one was originally upload to ubuntu.
[01:17] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: all done
[01:18] <fabbione> elmo: dude.. i did check my side and the 2 differs, but after a sync from sid there are problems.
[01:19] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: why are you talking to me about it?  it's not my problem
[01:19] <fabbione> elmo: so since i don't have any way to fix it in the archive.. i was a) asking to confirm b) perhaps you can fix it, since you know what happened
[01:19] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) if we upload a different orig.tar.gz to ubuntu.   we lose.
[01:19] <fabbione> elmo: because i don't have the history of automatic sync?
[01:19] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) you don't need it
[01:20] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) and I can't fix it anymore than you can - as with any "orig.tar.gz filename clash", the upstream version needs changed
[01:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: thanks
[01:21] <fabbione> elmo: can't we just replace the orig.tar.gz?
[01:21] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) no
[01:21] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) for exactly the same reason Debian won't do that
[01:22] <fabbione> ok
[01:22] <seb128> which package ?
[01:23] <fabbione> seb128: python-gtk2
[01:23] <seb128> hum
[01:23] <seb128> we don't need to sync, but the .orig should be the same
[01:23] <fabbione> it's not
[01:23] <seb128> ok, just ignore it so
[01:23] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: dude, we can't :)
[01:23] <fabbione> seb128: it FTBFS :-)
[01:24] <seb128> bah
[01:24] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: we have Debian's .dsc which refers to Debian's .orig.tar.gz, but we have Ubuntu's .orig.tar.gz
[01:24] <seb128> right
[01:24] <seb128> just redo a 2.4.1b tarball so :p
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: the netboot kernel and initrd.gz have changed location in the archive and they have been lost from the CD, do you want a bug for it?
[01:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: sure, debian-cd component
[01:28] <fabbione> ok
[01:32] <fabbione> Kamion: 3887
[01:38] <herzi> jdub: ping
[01:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: more universe stuff for you to sync: gem, gnome-gpg, grass, gtkhtml, gtkpbbuttons, hp2xx, hylafax, kdebase, kdegraphics, kdemultimedia, kdenetwork
[01:38] <fabbione> OPS
[01:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I've a horrible feeling that KDE is going to require fixes to build against X.org, but no way am I spending significant work time on that ...
[01:38] <herzi> :)
[01:38] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry... i think i opened the same bug twice
[01:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) herzi: pong
[01:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: we'll have help :)
[01:39] <herzi> jdub: can you plz update my hackerhead on planet? http://www.advogato.org/person/herzi/
[01:39] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: syncing
[01:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: np, duped
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: yeah.. middle air collision :)
[01:40] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) herzi: your eyes are closed and the contrast/colour is terrible :)
[01:40] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: err, dude, I thought mdz explicitly wanted bz2 tried first?
[01:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: um ... that was a deliberate change, can you just unpack netboot/netboot.tar.gz now?
[01:40] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) that's certainly how he explained it to me, in any event
[01:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: it's got all the stuff in it, I didn't see any reason to waste CD space by duplicating it
[01:41] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) oh, I have to file all those fun Xserve d-i/kernel bugs - blah
[01:41] <herzi> jdub: isn't that good for a hackergotchie? :)
[01:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) herzi: we have QA standards, dude ;)
[01:42] <mvo_> elmo: he put my patch in, I fix the piece and take the blame
[01:42] <herzi> so if you update the hackergotchie we'll see whether the qa team is just you :)
[01:42] <herzi> .oO(why do people cann themselves a "team"?)
[01:43] <herzi> call
[01:43] <fabbione> Kamion: well... before it was one step less.. i had the symlinks poiting from the tftp area to the images...
[01:43] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) herzi: i recommend posting a photo for the gimpers to hackergotchi-ise :)
[01:43] <fabbione> now i need to unpack and so on...
[01:44] <fabbione> (yeah.. it's lazyness)
[01:44] <mvo_> elmo: (the bzip2 patch was put in 0.5.30 by mdz)
[01:44] <mvo_> elmo: fear my pdiff patch ;)
[01:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: yeah, I know, but the netboot.tar.gz is convenient for people who don't have an existing setup
[01:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: although I guess I could unpack the whole lot onto the CD, and leave out netboot.tar.gz maybe?
[01:46] <fabbione> Kamion: i suggest to leave the netboot.tar.gz 
[01:46] <fabbione> it takes less space
[01:47] <fabbione> Kamion: perhaps you can leave just the kernel and initrd out?
[01:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) those are the bulk of the space, dude :)
[01:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I might as well unpack the lot
[01:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the rest is ~30KB
[01:48] <fabbione> ok
[01:49] <fabbione> let's unpack it
[01:49] <fabbione> so people can just mount the cd
[01:49] <fabbione> and point the tftp to it
[01:49] <fabbione> and BANG! it works
[01:49] <fabbione> not even the need of untarring
[01:49] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) and actually the netboot.tar.gz seems to be negligibly smaller at best
[01:55] <fabbione> Kamion: 3905 is going to give you a lot of headacke
[01:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: hah. I hate udev sometimes
[01:58] <fabbione> Kamion: it's not only udev
[01:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: why is that bug on debian-cd?! :)
[01:58] <fabbione> it's also hotplug
[01:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[01:58] <fabbione> they are the apocalipse of race conditions
[01:59] <fabbione> so we have a netinstall component?
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I need to redesign ddetect for hotplug anyway, and that may fix it
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) uh, no, dude, you don't file installer bugs against the CD :-)
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) reassigned to partman
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) debian-installer's the catch-all if you don't know the udeb involved
[01:59] <fabbione> but it's not a partman fault
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it'll do for now
[01:59] <fabbione> ok
[02:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) maybe it's ddetect, we'll see
[02:00] <fabbione> eheh ok
[02:02] <fabbione> argh.. my eyes!
[02:02] <fabbione> :)
[02:04] <fabbione> ah cool!
[02:04] <fabbione> it's installing warty :-)
[02:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) what, hoary netboot?
[02:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oops
[02:06] <fabbione> Kamion: http://www.fabbione.net/IMG_0632.JPG
[02:06] <fabbione> this is phase 2 with framebuffer
[02:06] <fabbione> other than the stripes on the monitor
[02:06] <fabbione> that are caused by a almost broken video card
[02:07] <fabbione> the "3D" effect seems broken...
[02:07] <fabbione> Kamion: yeah.. from netboot :P
[02:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: where did it say it was installing warty?
[02:08] <fabbione> hmmm
[02:08] <fabbione> some apt lines
[02:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) before reboot?
[02:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I thought I'd fixed all of that :(
[02:08] <fabbione> no phase2
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ./apt-setup.templates:7:Choices: warty, hoary
[02:09] <fabbione> it's baseconfig
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ./apt-setup.templates:8:Default: warty
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, oops
[02:09] <fabbione> we should kill that template
[02:09] <fabbione> one installer x release
[02:09] <fabbione> :)
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) nah
[02:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's useful for people who need a fix from the newer installer for their hardware, but don't want to install the development release
[02:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) at least in principle, as for whether we'll actually be able to support that we'll see
[02:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: fixed, thanks
[02:11] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem dude!
[02:11] <fabbione> i love to test d-i..
[02:11] <fabbione> specially with this setup :)
[02:11] <fabbione> it's like: f12 -> enter -> enter
[02:12] <fabbione> Kamion: did you check the pic?
[02:12] <pitti> fabbione: "every chicken can install Debian. Just keep pecking on Enter" .-)
[02:12] <fabbione> pitti: hahaha
[02:12] <pitti> fabbione: whoops, my smiley lost an eye
[02:13] <fabbione> no bigge
[02:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: do you mean the lack of outline around the dialog?
[02:14] <fabbione> Kamion: yup
[02:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I think that's something to do with dialog in UTF-8
[02:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) seems to have forgotten how to do line-drawing characters
[02:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: is the console otherwise properly configured for UTF-8?
[02:14] <fabbione> is it a known problem in debian too?
[02:15] <fabbione> Kamion: that's from reboot entering phase2
[02:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Debian don't default to UTF-8 so I wouldn't imagine many people have noticed
[02:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) most use of debconf is probably in xterms etc.
[02:15] <fabbione> i didn't touch anything at all
[02:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, I know
[02:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) is Italian working otherwise though? (assuming you're using Italian)
[02:15] <fabbione> brrrr
[02:16] <fabbione> i installed in en_DK
[02:16] <fabbione> let me check
[02:17] <fabbione> en_DK.UTF8
[02:17] <fabbione> strange... after a reboot i lost the framebuffer
[02:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if you reboot in the middle of base-config, some stuff may not have been saved yet; probably a bug all the same
[02:18] <fabbione> it failed to install desktop.. so that might be
[02:18] <fabbione> nothing important..
[02:29] <fabbione> yay.. it's snowing!
[02:30] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it's blizzardy here. :)
[02:32] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) a bit too blizzardy ;)
[02:32] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) HcE: wimp. :)
[02:35] <__daniel> it's snowing over here too *jump happily around fabbione*
[02:35] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) think we got about 50 cm in Trondheim/Norway now
[02:35] <cenerentola> its sunny here...
[02:36] <fabbione> nah here are the first cm
[02:36] <__daniel> HcE: my dog will be happy about one cm of snow ;-)
[02:37] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it's scary how easy starting d-i is; apt-get install atftp rarpd; edit /etc/ethers; wget -O /tftpboot/$hostid http://ftp.no.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-sparc/current/images/sparc64/netboot/boot.img ; then boot net on the sparc.
[02:37] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) "easy"
[02:38] <fabbione> Mithrandir: oh yeah
[02:38] <daniels> to kick off network booting, that really is very easy
[02:38] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) still no norwegian keyboard layout, though. :/
[02:38] <fabbione> Mithrandir: too bad that the OBP knows only about rarp/tftp protocol
[02:39] <fabbione> otherwise via dhcp is nice too
[02:39] <fabbione> dhcp/tftp
[02:39] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) I flushed 100Mb of spam here the other day =)
[02:40] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) but I'm like to keep thing, so it went through bzip
[02:40] <fabbione> if you like spam i can forward you mine :)
[02:41] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) :P
[02:41] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) I have plenty
[02:41] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: only 9GB disk so far.. I guess I'll throw a bigger disk into it as well.
[02:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's plenty
[02:42] <fabbione> i use less than that for the buildd dir
[02:42] (HcE/#ubuntu-devel) since 14. nov I have received 226 new spams
[02:43] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: it's the whole system, though.. and I like to have some extra space in there.
[02:43] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) but it'll do for now.
[02:43] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, how many disks can one stuff into a U5?
[02:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah.. 
[02:43] <fabbione> hmmm... 2 i think
[02:43] <fabbione> it's a "desktop" one, isn't it?
[02:43] <fabbione> with ide disks...
[02:44] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) yeah :/
[02:44] <fabbione> if so up to 4 ide devices
[02:44] <fabbione> but you need to find the space where to mount them
[02:44] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, I was more worried about that.
[02:44] <fabbione> iirc you can easily add one below the cdrom
[02:44] <fabbione> or below the floppy
[02:44] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, I guess I could remove the cdrom as well
[02:44] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) you can get 4 in there if you really want to
[02:45] <fabbione> remember that u5 can't read disks bigger than 120G
[02:45] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: can't read or can't boot off?
[02:45] <fabbione> can't see/read
[02:45] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) that sucks.
[02:45] <fabbione> it recongnize weird values
[02:45] <fabbione> yeah
[02:45] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) I'm considering getting one to use as my backup box.
[02:45] <fabbione> probably with an updated OBP
[02:46] <fabbione> also take into account that it doesn't support cable-select
[02:46] <fabbione> and it doesn't like all brands of hd
[02:46] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: doesn't the ide controller need lba48 stuff for > 120G
[02:46] <fabbione> but that's common to all sparc's
[02:46] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[02:46] <fabbione> sjoerd: i think so yeah..
[02:46] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) it's only a 128MB system so far, but I'll see if I can find some more to stuff into it.
[02:46] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) what kind of ram does it use?
[02:46] <fabbione> but the U5 is way older than LBA48
[02:47] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) my current desktop is an U5
[02:47] <fabbione> mine was a U60
[02:47] <fabbione> until either the mobo or the cpu went banana
[02:48] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) that's a shame
[02:48] <fabbione> oh it's really funny
[02:48] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) i'm using my U5, because my intell machine died
[02:48] <fabbione> you can turn it on.. once in a while
[02:48] <fabbione> and it works perfectly
[02:48] <fabbione> as soon as it warms up
[02:48] <fabbione> you can't reboot it anymore
[02:48] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) then don't reboot it?
[02:48] <fabbione> or turn it off, without turning it on again for days...
[02:48] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) put it in the fridge :)
[02:49] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ehhh
[02:49] <fabbione> sjoerd: my gf didn't like the solution :)
[02:49] <fabbione> replacing the mobo and cpu is a bit expensive
[02:49] <fabbione> because i don't know if it's either one or the other
[02:49] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) what kind of ram does the U5 use?
[02:49] <fabbione> mobo is approx 100USD, but the cpu is aih.. way higher than that
[02:50] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) is it the same cpu as in a U5 or another one
[02:50] <fabbione> if you include transport and taxes + everything else
[02:50] <fabbione> the mobo jumps to 200USD
[02:50] <fabbione> sjoerd: another one
[02:50] <fabbione> the u5 has a "flat" cpu
[02:50] <fabbione> mounted horizontaly
[02:50] <fabbione> the u60 is vertical
[02:51] <fabbione> 2 different busses
[02:51] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ah too bad. i've got several spare U5 cpu's lying around
[02:51] <fabbione> ehe no problem
[02:52] <fabbione> it can cost me less to buy another U60
[02:52] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) probably
[02:52] <fabbione> it definetely does
[02:52] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) got my U5 for free
[02:52] <daniels> i have a free u5
[02:52] <fabbione> U60 366Mhz 512Mb 18GB for 425USD
[02:53] <fabbione> that's almost the same i have now
[02:53] <fabbione> i could buy another one and merge them
[02:57] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) sun is extremely expensive.. looked for a replacement sparcstation 4 mobo once, because mine was struck by lightning
[02:57] <fabbione> sjoerd: www.anysystem.com
[02:58] <fabbione> the original mobo for the u60 is over 900USD from sun
[02:58] <fabbione> and i can pay 100 for the same...
[02:58] <fabbione> with one year warranty
[02:58] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, got another sparcstation somewhere for a lot less and merged them
[03:01] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ah nice
[03:02] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) yay, boheci boots.
[03:02] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) hmm
[03:03] <ChrisH> e10k? Wow. I wonder if they have an e10k in laptop form-factor. :)
[03:03] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) but she claims to not being able to read the partition table due to I/O errors.
[03:03] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) that's kinda bad.
[03:03] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ChrisH: no, but you can get a sparc in a laptop if you really want to
[03:03] <fabbione> sjoerd: yeah i remember about that :-)
[03:04] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: we almost got our uni into giving us a old small enterprise machine they stopped using
[03:04] <fabbione> ChrisH: you will need a mini portable nuclear power plant
[03:04] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) but in the end they decided to keep it for testing :(
[03:04] <ChrisH> sjoerd: Nah. I'd be happy already if my Toshiba would support power-management.
[03:04] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) seems it's not too happy about being rebooted.
[03:04] <fabbione> sjoerd: i had to buy one for the company i was working for at that time :-)
[03:04] <ChrisH> fabbione: Yeah, the elec bill should be "interesting".
[03:04] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/products/mobile/sparcle/
[03:05] <ChrisH> sjoerd: 1 GHz Ultrasparc should be nice. But $3k for a laptop?
[03:05] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: nice.. did they actually run debian on it in production or just for toying around ?
[03:06] <fabbione> i don't think Sparc IIIi processor is supported by linux yet
[03:06] <fabbione> sjoerd: no.. they had to run slowlaris
[03:06] <fabbione> sjoerd: but i had my fun with that board for a while
[03:06] <fabbione> nobody noticed a missing 4 CPUs and 4 GB of RAM
[03:06] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) haha
[03:07] <fabbione> also because of the hotplug functionalities in slowlaris
[03:07] <fabbione> i could just remove CPU / RAM from one virtual machine to another
[03:07] <fabbione> and "top" on e10k is patched to report some virtual values
[03:08] <fabbione> so basically you don't really know what hardware you have available at that moment
[03:08] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) hehe
[03:08] <fabbione> and shifting one board from one execution domain to another is simple :-)
[03:09] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: i'm done with g-v-m patching and testing.. if you have any remarks left lemme know, otherwise i'll upload to experimental rsn :)
[03:09] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: thats nice
[03:09] <pitti> sjoerd: I already read the logs, nice work
[03:09] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) cool thanks
[03:09] <pitti> go, sjoerd, go!
[03:09] <pitti> sjoerd: then I can throw the stuf into Hoary as well
[03:09] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: for hal i'm waiting on md 
[03:10] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, right
[03:13] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: could do a binary only build for gvm on i386 for debian
[03:13] <pitti> sjoerd: ahem, what for?
[03:13] <pitti> sjoerd: for testing?
[03:13] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: for experimental, so people can test it 
[03:14] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, you mean you would usually upload sparc
[03:14] <pitti> sjoerd: I can do that if you want
[03:14] <pitti> sjoerd: as soon as the package hits the mirrors, I can upload it
[03:14] <pitti> sjoerd: I never did this though; just upload a changes with the i386 deb and the same version?
[03:15] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: pull the package out of incoming and do dpkg-buildpackage -B -mpitti@debian.org 
[03:15] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) and upload the result
[03:15] <pitti> sjoerd: this part is clear
[03:15] <pitti> sjoerd: okay, if that works, I'm fine with that
[03:15] <fabbione> sjoerd: btw.. 197 packages to go for the first set of ubuntu sparc packages
[03:16] <fabbione> pitti: -b -B
[03:16] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: nice.. although i don't have ubuntu on any of my machines
[03:16] <fabbione> you don't want to regenerate the diff.gz
[03:16] <fabbione> sjoerd: well.. there is always a first time :-)
[03:16] <pitti> fabbione: right
[03:16] <pitti> fabbione: I ususally use debuild -b
[03:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) -B for porting to avoid the _all.{deb,udeb}, usually
[03:19] <pitti> ah, nice hint; not a g-v-m problem (just one binary deb), but for general
[03:19] <daniels> Kamion: {,u}deb
[03:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) picky :)
[03:25] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: for now i'm just working on the debian side of things, so having debian makes more sense :)
[03:27] <zul> fabbione, do you need any help with the sparc debs
[03:27] <fabbione> sjoerd: argh! the dark side!
[03:27] <fabbione> sjoerd: P
[03:27] <fabbione> add another :P
[03:28] <fabbione> zul: it depends what you can offer
[03:28] <zul> fabbione, i got a sparc32 and sparc64 i just need to put debian on it this weekend
[03:29] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) speaking about the darkside.. I sent one mail to the sparclinux list that i've found ``the'' problem with alsa on my sparc and various gentoo lusers start mailing me for patches
[03:29] <fabbione> sjoerd: ehehe
[03:30] <fabbione> i had several problems with alsa on sparc
[03:30] <fabbione> specially due to the emu10k
[03:30] <zul> heh..there are *some* gentoo lusers :)
[03:30] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: my sparcstation is currently unused, but i don't think it's a good target for ubuntu :)
[03:30] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: as in hanging the complete machine ? :)
[03:31] <fabbione> sjoerd: no.. as it can't be compiled
[03:31] <fabbione> or atleast.. that was like a year ago
[03:31] <fabbione> if not more
[03:31] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) oh
[03:32] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) currently an unpatched kernel will just hang your machine if your run alsamixer 
[03:32] <fabbione> dunno.. really... the only sparc i have left is a netra t1 105
[03:32] <fabbione> no gfx, no audio
[03:32] <fabbione> no keybaord
[03:32] <fabbione> no mouse
[03:32] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) and alsaplayer doesn't work because of inconsistencies in the userspace and kernelspace structs
[03:32] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) but the last should be fix in 2.6.10-rc2
[03:33] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: gvm just hit incoming
[03:34] <pitti> sjoerd: nice, thanks
[03:34] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) thanks
[03:35] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) for unstable i maybe need to add a debconf note.. otherwise gvm will just stop working, because people didn't put themselves in the plugdev group
[03:35] <pitti> sjoerd: ah right
[03:35] <pitti> sjoerd: we were lucky to have put this right into our first distro
[03:36] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) we will hopefully get it right to in the first distro shipping it :)
[03:36] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) a slow release has it advantages :P
[03:36] <pitti> sjoerd: do you want to add the note to pmount or gvm?
[03:36] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: gvm 
[03:37] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) it also is nice for people installing it for the first time though
[03:37] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) in debian the first user isn't in plugdev automagically
[03:38] <pitti> sjoerd: well, this could be changed
[03:39] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) don't think it makes sense for debian to do that
[03:39] <pitti> sjoerd: OTOH, the last time I installed a debian system, the first user was not even in audio and video :-)
[03:39] <pitti> sjoerd: I guess that's the drawback of an "Universal OS" :-)
[03:39] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[03:40] <pitti> sjoerd: but it's actually not too bad if the admin puts the users into the needed groups explicitly
[03:40] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) nope, i just want too mention it clearly
[03:40] <pitti> sjoerd: "Also turn autorun off and turn autobrowse on by default" -> nice, this makes another Ubuntu patch disappear :-)
[03:40] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) otherwise i'll get a load of bugs
[03:40] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: i know, i went through your patches
[03:41] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) and dvd on by default, that was off strangely enough
[03:41] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) AFAIK the initial user gets added to various groups in Debian, so adding plugdev wouldn't hurt I guess
[03:42] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: not that i know
[03:43] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) hrm your right, that's new
[03:44] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: do you know what package does that ?
[03:45] <pitti> sjoerd: should be passwd in base-config
[03:47] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) it was a hack in base-config, perhaps the passwd package does it properly now
[03:48] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ./lib/menu/passwd:              adduser "$RET" video >/dev/null 2>&1 || true
[03:48] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) from base-config..
[03:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, still is
[03:49] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: you could file a bug for the plugdev group there
[03:51] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) but i guess that won't make it into sarge anyway..
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: I cannot build this in a sid environment
[03:53] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: hrm why not
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: libgnomeui-dev has unsatisfiable depends
[03:53] <pitti> sjoerd: I try to build in an up-to-date sid pbuilder chroot
[03:54] <pitti>   libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnomeui-0 (= 2.8.0-2) but it is not going to be installed
[03:54] <pitti>                   Depends: libgnomecanvas2-dev (>= 2.6.0) but it is not going to be installed
[03:54] <pitti>                   Depends: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.5.4) but it is not going to be installed
[03:54] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: oh that's a problem with the G2.8 transition
[03:54] <pitti> sjoerd: so shall I add the experimental pacakge source?
[03:54] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) libgnomecanvas2-dev is in incoming for i386
[03:55] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: that should work too, newer version of the depends are in sid rsn anyway
[03:57] <pitti> sjoerd: okay, I build against experimental for now
[04:01] <pitti> sjoerd: I uploaded the i386 deb and a binary-only changes file. Let's see whether it works :-)
[04:01] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: thanks
[04:02] <pitti> sjoerd: it's nice to have a server with 100MBit connection for these purposes :-)
[04:04] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) good connections are always nice
[04:04] <pitti> oh, just got a phone call. Gotta go, will return later. CU
[04:04] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: later
[04:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) doko: why was http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/libnet-ph-perl/libnet-ph-perl_ubuntu.debdiff necessary? the dependency was versioned due to a perl policy requirement, to deal with the perl 5.6 transition; is there a reason we need to keep this divergence?
[04:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: more universe syncs for you: libapache-mod-python, libcgi, libforms1, offlineimap, opencv, paul, pgadmin3, pike7.6, primaxscan, pstoedit
[04:13] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: done
[04:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ok, that was scary fast
[04:14] <fabbione> Kamion: i think that's the "elmo autoanswer feature"
[04:14] <fabbione> ;)
[04:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I think there's only about 20 more low-hanging fruit, after that the masters of the universe can take care of it
[04:15] <daniels> fabbione: we replaced elmo with a very high-performance bot
[04:15] <daniels> the scary thing is that you could actually easily automate the syncs
[04:16] <fabbione> let see if it works:
[04:16] <fabbione> elmo: sync..
[04:16] <fabbione> :P
[04:17] <daniels> scripts can't do esp :P
[04:17] <daniels> but you look for sync, and you just tokenise the rest of the string, and if it matches a package in the archive, sync it
[04:18] <daniels> excluding 'from debian', 'from sid', etc
[04:18] <daniels> and you could probably have a heuristic involving : and stuff as well
[04:18] <fabbione> ehhehe
[04:18] <fabbione> daniels: is elmo there at sabdfl?
[04:20] <daniels> fabbione: nope, not any more
[04:20] <daniels> back to the north
[04:20] <daniels> (sorry, norf)
[04:21] <fabbione> ok
[04:32] (robtaylor/#ubuntu-devel) hey.. anyone know hoe pmount decides which options to use for which media?
[04:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yep, kde needs x.org build-dep love
[04:40] <daniels> Kamion: YAY!!!!
[04:40] <daniels> Kamion: which module?
[04:41] <fabbione> daniels: i think we should considering fixing it in a different way
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) kdebase
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) kde* build-deps on xlibs-static-pic
[04:41] <daniels> Kamion: do you want me to sort it?
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) you know the rest :)
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) *shrug* I'm not bothered, it's universe
[04:41] <daniels> Kamion: by kde*, you don't really mean ... all of kde ... do you
[04:41] <fabbione> like xlibs-static-dev Depemnds: <allsplittedmodules>
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) wouldn't spend too much work time on it
[04:41] <daniels> fabbione: i like the idea of forcing them to update b-ds
[04:42] <daniels> fabbione: because, realistically, no-one now b-ds on anything other than xlibs-dev
[04:42] <daniels> which is crap
[04:42] <fabbione> i agree
[04:42] <gicmo> hi everybody ;)
[04:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: well, the four that I asked elmo to sync earlier anyway; kdebase, kdegraphics, kdemultimedia, kdenetwork
[04:42] <daniels> Kamion: ok
[04:42] <daniels> i might sort base and network and leave the rest for later
[04:43] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, one of the ia64 buildds has taken nearly 3k packages as 'building'
[04:43] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) "woops"
[04:43] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: it's bogosity from not having X
[04:43] <daniels> elmo: what does it think it is, concordia?
[04:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) shame, I was kinda hoping we could be synced to Debian for KDE for at least a while
[04:43] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) was waiting for it to quiesce before doing a mass giveback
[04:43] <daniels> Kamion: the b-d change should be enough for merge-o-matic to work its love
[04:43] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: only in it's dreams
[04:43] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: ah
[04:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: sadly not often judging from the syncs I've been reviewing :(
[04:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: too often the b-ds are in like a different order or something and hi_mom gives up in despair
[04:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) anyway, I have to go and pick my car up from being repaired, back in an hour or so
[04:45] <fabbione> we could ask Keybuk to write a special tool for checking build-deps
[04:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) that might be good
[04:45] <fabbione> sorting them would avoid a lot of conflicts
[04:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oh, and it's usually next to the standards-version line so any update of that will cause fuzz ...
[04:46] <Keybuk> yeah, was tempted to write a depends-field parser to sort those out
[04:46] <daniels> Kamion: ahr, bugger
[04:46] <daniels> Keybuk: great work with mom though
[04:46] <Keybuk> sourcerer.deb can already parse much of the control file, and do a three-way diff ... is just those fields that are trickier
[04:46] <daniels> Keybuk: it's really really good
[04:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oh, yeah, not dissing it, it's doing a fine job
[04:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: perhaps you can parse them one by one
[04:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) today's syncs were trivial to review
[04:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: just ideas.. it's not complaining
[04:47] <daniels> Kamion: not saying that it was :) just remembered that I wanted to compliment Keybuk the other day, but he was selfishly not here
[04:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) he does that
[04:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) doesn't want to know what we're saying behind his back ;)
[04:47] <daniels> elmo: that ia64 buildd doesn't want to share
[04:48] <Keybuk> I suspect I'm going to need a depends-field parser for hct anyway at some point, so it'll probably just turn up <g.
[04:48] <daniels> elmo: so you'll have to shaft it
[04:51] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lol
[04:51] <seb128> elmo: sync for easytag (1.99.1-1) from experimental please
[04:52] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: that buildd was your fault, you know.
[04:52] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) easytag's in universe atm?
[04:52] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) (xorg/xf86 causing quick failures that the autodepwaiter couldn't parse...)
[04:52] <seb128> elmo: yes
[04:53] <daniels> lamont_r: why did xorg fail quickly?
[04:53] <daniels> lamont_r: build rman, build xorg, watch it fail, throw me debian/MANIFEST.ia64.new
[04:53] <fabbione> daniels: he did already
[04:53] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: hmm - I thought we were only doing experimental syncs for release goals.. but *shrug* it's your package :)
[04:53] <fabbione> check your irc backlog
[04:53] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: done
[04:53] <daniels> fabbione: i don't have anything in my backlog
[04:54] <seb128> elmo: ok, thanks :) (we have the choice between an old gtk+1 app and a new gtk+2 supporting utf-8 fine so .. :)
[04:54] <fabbione> daniels: it's on people/~lamont/daniels/
[04:54] <fabbione> daniels: *ia64*
[04:54] <daniels> lamont_r: ah, ill
[04:54] <daniels> lamont_r: thanks dude
[04:54] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: actually, it was xf86 _and_ xorg not being there that was fatal to all those builds..
[04:54] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) xf86 finally built
[04:54] <daniels> heh
[05:17] <gicmo> sladen, ping ? :)
[05:22] <enrico> hello.  Can someone help me with the wiki?
[05:23] <enrico> I modified my entry in the ConferenceAttendees, then viewed the page a bit later and I saw a single block of text with the Moin markup.  I did Edit and I saw that the page formatting was set to HTML.  I reset it to Moin but it's now messy.  And I can't understand how to roll it back
[05:27] <enrico> Ah, ok, someone did something after I last edited it
[05:28] <fabbione> ciao enrico 
[05:28] <enrico> fabbione: ciao!
[05:28] <fabbione> madduck: you can't be god
[05:39] <Mitario> hello everyone
[05:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: more syncs, please: pytables python-biggles python-gnome python-rrd python-utmp qgis quantlib-python
[05:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel)  quiteinsanegimpplugin radiuscontext rdiff-backup rezound scite scribus sdl-imag
[05:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) e1.2
[05:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oops, sorry for crappy line wrap
[05:54] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: done
[05:56] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: you're on a roll dude
[05:56] <daniels> lamont_r: (just like butter)
[05:57] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: you probably don't want to know that there are 5 more unknown/'s, do you?
[05:57] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) (ia64/build-db)
[05:57] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) oh, I just need to cron elisha
[05:57] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, except she only finds 2.  meh.
[05:58] <Keybuk> is that a new euphemism?
[05:58] <Keybuk> daniels will probably claim that "cronning" means something in Australian
[05:58] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) Keybuk: almost certainly to do with 18 yearolds and sex
[05:58] <mxpxpod> does the ubuntu kernel have any extra patches to it?
[05:59] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: I see ejabberd, u++(fixed) and elilo-installer - what's the other 2?
[05:59] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) partitioner efi-reader
[06:00] <daniels> Keybuk: yes, scheduling a task to be done at a particular time via an automated system
[06:00] <daniels> lamont_r: you sick bastard
[06:01] <Keybuk> daniels: well, you go into firts of giggles whenever we talk about routeing, so we can never be too sure
[06:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: k, will look at that at some point then
[06:02] <daniels> well, try to talk about more mundane topics, such as network infrastructure
[06:05] (lamont_r/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: np
[06:05] <Keybuk> daniels: we all know you hacked fd.o yourself just so you can claim you've been rooted *once* this year :p
[06:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: last lot for today: serpento sip-qt3 sqlrelay ted tla-load-dirs vrweb waili wallp wdm wxwindows2.4 xdiskusage xemacs21-packages xpaint xt ygraph
[06:12] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) done
[06:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  635965440 Nov 19 14:45 hoary-install-powerpc.iso
[06:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, we're getting close to capacity here
[06:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) about 40MB to go ... taking mozilla-browser off the CD is looking pretty appealing :)
[06:22] <Keybuk> is hoary that much bigger than warty?
[06:22] <daniels> powerpc is that much bigger than i386
[06:23] <mxpxpod> I'd like to take a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel, patch it with benh's sleep patch for ibook g4... do I need to create an initrd image? or will make-kpkg do that for me?
[06:24] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) -rw-rw-r--    2 cjwatson cdimage  621025280 Oct 20 00:43 warty-install-powerpc.iso
[06:24] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) not *that* much worse, admittedly
[06:29] <daniels> Kamion: kdebase is FTBFS for me right now in other ways I can't be arsed fixing
[06:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fair enough
[06:30] <daniels> Kamion: (code issues, so not worth the time on universe0
[06:30] <daniels> s/.$/)/
[06:40] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: Around?
[06:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mjg59: yes
[06:42] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: I'm meeting various debian-uk people this evening - if there are some straglers, would you object to them wishing you a happy birthday later on?
[06:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mjg59: not at all
[06:47] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: Excellent
[06:51] <pitti> Hi sjoerd
[06:51] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: hi :)
[06:51] <pitti> sjoerd: can you please clean up 20_specify_mountprogram.patch a bit?
[06:51] <pitti> sjoerd: it still contains this autofoo cache
[06:51] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ugh
[06:51] <pitti> sjoerd: which makes the patch 270 KB big
[06:52] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) i knew i forgot something :)
[06:53] <pitti> sjoerd: I just went through the ubuntu g-v-m patches
[06:53] <pitti> sjoerd: In fact I do not need any of it any more :-)
[06:53] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) cool
[06:54] <pitti> sjoerd: did my binary upload work?
[06:54] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[06:56] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: new 20_specify_mountprogram.patch in svn
[06:56] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) dbs-edit-patch does indeed work very nice :)
[07:00] <pitti> sjoerd: if there was something similar for simple-patchsys, then it would be even nicer 
[07:00] <pitti> sjoerd: but I agree, it helps a lot
[07:00] <_rene_> pitti: 
[07:00] <_rene_>   * debian/control.lang.in:
[07:00] <_rene_>     - stop depending on openoffice.org at -l10n-*. Just recommend it.
[07:00] <_rene_>       Conflict against the older versions to get the desired effect
[07:00] <_rene_>       instead. This enables re-inclusion of them in tasksel and
[07:00] <_rene_>       allows per-language metapackages (closes: #281645) [RE] 
[07:00] <pitti> _rene_: looks nice
[07:00] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: even better if it worked together nicely with svn-buildpackage
[07:00] <_rene_> umm, s/enables/allows/, but this would be the change ;-)
[07:01] <pitti> _rene_: the only difference to my version is that it is not automatically uninstalled if you remove both OO.o and the lanugage pack
[07:01] <_rene_> it isn't here either
[07:01] <pitti> _rene_: but for the sake of compatibility this is fine
[07:01] <_rene_> oh, wait
[07:02] <_rene_> how do you mean that?
[07:02] <pitti> _rene_: will this be uploaded soon?
[07:02] <pitti> _rene_: if o-l10n-de depends on ooo | language-support-de
[07:02] <pitti> _rene_: then synaptic/apt will automatically remove it if both packages are removed
[07:02] <_rene_> ah, yeah
[07:02] <_rene_> we don't do that :-)
[07:02] <pitti> _rene_: so users can choose not to want de any more and this would uninstall all mozilla and OO.o stuff
[07:03] <pitti> _rene_: it's not that important
[07:03] <pitti> _rene_: but shouldn't you conflict to older _and_ newer versions?
[07:03] <_rene_> since it's a completely new metapackage / sarge/ blah / yada ;)
[07:03] <pitti> _rene_: or will that work?
[07:03] <pitti> _rene_: at least mozilla fails badly with an older language pack and a newer broser
[07:03] <pitti> browser, even
[07:04] <_rene_> if the strings don't change it will work
[07:04] <_rene_> if they change.. Hmm
[07:04] <pitti> _rene_: if it is possible that it breaks, I'd rather conflict to older and newer versions
[07:04] <pitti> _rene_: differently from Mozilla, the language packs for OO.o should always be available in matching versions
[07:04] <pitti> _rene_: so I don't see a problem
[07:05] <_rene_> yeah, but theer are some people who try to upgrade via apt-get *install*
[07:05] <_rene_> which sometimes has nice effects
[07:05] <pitti> _rene_: well, then they will be lectured that they need to update the l10n package, too
[07:06] <pitti> _rene_: but it might safe you some odd bug reports :)
[07:06] <_rene_> yeah, and we have to deal with the bugreports :/
[07:06] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: what do you want installed on the buildd?
[07:06] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: you can't do versioned provides I'm afraid
[07:06] <pitti> haggai: we don't need them?
[07:07] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: so you'd have to list every possible language in the conflicts
[07:07] <_rene_> erm, this is the other way round
[07:07] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) oh, right
[07:07] <pitti> haggai: why, every l10n package just needs to conflict to unmatching versiosn of the main package
[07:07] <_rene_> -l10n-* conflicting against oo.o versions
[07:07] <pitti> haggai: yes, conflict in one direction is enough
[07:07] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, could work
[07:07] <pitti> haggai: it does :)
[07:08] <_rene_> ok, so I'll do a Conflicts: openoffice.org (<< 1.1.1+1.1.2), openoffice.org (>> 1.1.2+1.1.3)
[07:09] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) ok
[07:10] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) hmmm, I think the reason we didn't do that was because you sometimes get point releases without string updates
[07:10] (haggai/#ubuntu-devel) but I guess dropping that won't hurt many people
[07:11] <pitti> _rene_: hmm, shouldn't it be >= 1.1.2+1.1.3?
[07:11] <pitti> _rene_: or will all 1.1.2 translations work also with 1.1.3?
[07:11] <_rene_> uh?
[07:11] <pitti> _rene_: you used >>
[07:11] <_rene_> 1.1.2+1.1.3 is lesser than 1.1.2+1.1.3-1
[07:12] <_rene_> 1.1.2+1.1.3 would be the upstream version
[07:12] <pitti> _rene_: right, that's why I ask
[07:12] <_rene_> and you conflict against anything after 1.1.2
[07:12] <pitti> _rene_: you should conflict to 1.1.3 too
[07:12] <_rene_> which 1.1.2+1.1.3 is
[07:12] <_rene_> 1.1.3 is bigger than 1.1.2+1.1.3
[07:12] <pitti> _rene_: no, 1.1.3 would still be allowed since you use >> (Stricter greater)
[07:13] <_rene_> we don't allow anything bigger than 1.1.2+1.1.3
[07:13] <pitti> _rene_: ah, I thought you package a version which really is called 1.1.2+1.1.3
[07:13] <_rene_> and 1.1.3 _is_ bigger
[07:13] <pitti> _rene_: okay, my fault, sorry
[07:13] <_rene_> the current version is 1.1.2dfsg1-3
[07:13] <_rene_> so no problem :)
[07:13] <_rene_> no problem. I sometimes have to think about it again too if I edit that ;-)
[07:16] <Kyaneos> hi
[08:47] <mirak> hi
[08:48] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use ubuntu on an ibook g4?
[08:50] <mxpxpod> amu: alubook?
[08:50] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) n, the latest with 1,5Ghz and 15" 
[08:50] <mxpxpod> hmm
[08:51] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: pitti has an ibook g4 iirc
[08:52] <mxpxpod> I'd like to compile my own kernel (2.6.9 + benh's new patch for sleep) but I'm not sure how to do the initrd stuff that ubuntu uses
[08:52] <gicmo> benh's sleep patch?
[08:53] <mxpxpod> gicmo: http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2004/11/msg00367.html
[08:53] <mxpxpod> whoops
[08:53] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) formorer packaged it, see p.d.o/~formorer 
[08:53] <mxpxpod> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2004/11/msg00356.html
[08:53] <gicmo> ahh only for g4s .. 
[08:53] <mxpxpod> amu: p.d.o?
[08:54] <mxpxpod> amu: heh, people... not planet
[08:54] <gicmo> hehe
[08:54] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) people 
[08:54] <mxpxpod> amu: ah, that's not the new patch
[08:54] <mirak> hi
[08:54] <mirak> anyone have knowledge with apt-build ?
[08:54] <mirak> isn't it supposed to resolve and compile the deps ?
[08:55] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) aehm well sleep works .... sometime ;) 
[08:55] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) the old patch works great on my albook
[08:55] <mirak> because for me it blocks on the -dev packages and don't get them
[08:55] <mxpxpod> amu: the new patch fixes some issues, supposedly
[08:55] <mxpxpod> sjoerd: you compiled your own kernel?
[08:55] <gicmo> I wonder when/if the inotify patch will go into the ubuntu kernel
[08:55] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: yeah, i always do
[08:56] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) make-kpkg kernel-image --initrd should work 
[08:56] <mxpxpod> really...
[08:56] <mxpxpod> wasn't sure how to do the initrd
[08:56] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) yep
[08:57] <mxpxpod> sjoerd: do you just compile everything as a module?
[08:58] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: no
[08:58] (amu/#ubuntu-devel) everything as a module ? you submit your patch rerun make oldconfig and build the package  
[09:00] <mxpxpod> sjoerd: so you have a config for your specific machine
[09:00] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: yes
[09:00] <mxpxpod> ah, that makes sense
[09:01] <mxpxpod> sjoerd: what fs do you use for your linux partitions?
[09:01] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) ext3
[09:01] <mxpxpod> do you compile that in?
[09:02] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) i need to, i don't use an initrd
[09:02] <mxpxpod> ahhh, ok
[09:03] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) boo
[09:03] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) any built cvs lately?
[09:13] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) er, sorry that was for #muine
[09:14] <jdz_> Has there been any work done with Ubuntu and LTSP?
[09:14] <mxpxpod> :D
[09:17] <Gaaruto> hello
[10:14] <Mitario> lo everyone
[10:15] <cenerentola> ciao
[10:38] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: around?
[10:39] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: yeah
[10:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: did you get my mail about ubuntu-calendar* and hoary?
[10:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) i repinged it again recently
[10:39] <seb128> jdub: do we want gst-ffmpeg somewhere ? I've taaz's (the gst maintainer in debian) source package, I can upload it in hoary if we have a place for it ...
[10:39] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: is it in debian?
[10:39] <seb128> no
[10:40] <seb128> ffmpeg is staying in NEW for like 3 months
[10:40] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) i think we should be very cautious about adding it anywhere
[10:40] <seb128> ftpmasters have no love for it :p
[10:40] <seb128> why ?
[10:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) at least we have plausible deniability for stuff we sync from debian into universe ;)
[10:41] <seb128> we have ffmpeg in xine in universe ... what's worst in gst ?
[10:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: because it will kick our arses :)
[10:41] <seb128> and we have mplayer in multiverse
[10:41] <seb128> which have it too
[10:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: sure, but those are both quite dangerous
[10:41] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) libxine we have some plausible deniability about
[10:42] <seb128> the question is "why 2 packages with ffmpeg and not 3"
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) mplayer was a conscious decision, unfortunately
[10:42] <seb128> I would understand 0
[10:42] <seb128> or 3
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: because libxine is straight from debian ("oh really? we didn't know that")
[10:42] <seb128> ok
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) mplayer was a conscious decision, unfortunately
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) but bringing gst-ffmpeg in is another conscious decision
[10:42] <seb128> I'll use the alioth pkg-gnome pool for debian, the package will work on ubuntu too
[10:44] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: answered
[10:44] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) sorry
[10:45] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) thanks
[11:05] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: so 'warty-updates hoary' in the changelog header?
[11:05] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: also, what do we do about november calendar updates that are already in warty?
[11:05] <wasabi> How does one request support for a package in universe? I'd like to see it in main. I can make a case for it.
[11:07] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: I thought i migrated it already
[11:07] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: and yes
[11:08] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) apparently not, go me
[11:08] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) ok thanks :)
[11:08] <wasabi> lib{nss,pam}-{ldap,krb5}
[11:09] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: mail ubuntu-devel
[11:09] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: instant support from me
[11:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) okay, they'll go out into hoary in the next mirror pulse
[11:10] <wasabi> looks like libpam-krb5 is utterly useless, just like in debian
[11:10] <wasabi> doesn't even create a ticket cache
[11:10] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: awesome, thanks
[11:10] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: please point out any integration fixes we need
[11:11] <wasabi> Is that okay? I point out "it doesn't work" to the debian maintainer at one point, but wasn't going to say anything else since I had no time to fix it myself.
[11:12] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) worth pointing out as you propose them
[11:14] <jdz_> Does anyone know if there has there been any work done with Ubuntu and LTSP? (http://ltsp.org/)
[11:15] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) a guy called punkass on #ubuntu mentioned he was looking into it
[11:17] <jdz_> Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for him
[11:18] <jdz_> The only relevent infomation in the Ubuntu website is in MarksHoaryGoals: Must Have: LTSP in the box
[11:18] <jdz_> I haven't been able to find any discussion beyond that though.
[11:48] <wasabi> You guys realize how bad of a name Hoary is right?
[11:48] <wasabi> I just had to yell across my office: "Hey Paul, are you using Hoary?"
[11:49] <wasabi> And of course all the women in the office turn and scowl.
[11:50] <wasabi> man nscd is so messe dup
[11:53] <wasabi> does libc in ubuntu not work with nscd?
[11:53] <wasabi> It's not even attempting to probe for the socket
[11:53] <wasabi> oh there it is.