[12:37] <skyrider> sivang: hi
[12:38] <sivang> hey skyrider! what's up?
[12:39] <sivang> doesn anybody have idea if when setting up apt pinning, I need to put in /etc/apt/apt.conf the ditro name in caps ?
[12:39] <sivang> like Warty , or warty?
[12:39] <sivang> plovs_work : ? :)
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: it doesn't matter IIRC
[12:40] <sivang> skyrider : ok thanks.
[12:40] <skyrider> I've published some photos of Ukraine you asked
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: I may be wrong ;)
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: you can see this photos at http://kid.stu.cn.ua/~skyrider/photos/ukraine/
[12:41] <skyrider> sivang: it's just random photos from different places in my country: cities, villages etc.
[12:41] <sivang> skyrider : nice!
[12:42] <sivang> thank you alot
[12:42] <sivang> http://kid.stu.cn.ua/~skyrider/photos/ukraine/img010.jpeg.html << AMAZING VIEW
[12:43] <skyrider> sivang: you are welcome!
[12:43] <skyrider> sivang: you wouldn't believe but that photo I've made in the center of my city %-)
[12:43] <sivang> you know, we should maybe start some page on the wiki, each team and some personal photos of the members, their origin etc, care for the people part in Ubuntu :)
[12:45] <skyrider> sivang: good idea
[12:49] <skyrider> sivang: BTW what's about irc logs?
[12:49] <sivang> hmmm good you reminded me, let's ping mako :) again - I'll email him if can't get answer today. Sorry about that!
[12:50] <skyrider> :)
[12:50] <skyrider> BTW mako is awesome guy
[12:50] <skyrider> I've read his article today
[12:50] <skyrider> I'm impressed
[12:50] <sivang> where?
[12:51] <sivang> He a great guy, yes
[12:51] <skyrider> http://mako.yukidoke.org/writing/unlearningstory/StoryOfUnlearing.html
[12:51] <skyrider> I lake that essey very much
[12:51] <skyrider> s/lake/like/ :)
[12:52] <skyrider> s/essey/essay/ :)
[12:53] <skyrider> To much mistakes for one sentence
[01:04] <sivang> no prob
[01:04] <sivang> :)
[01:11] <sivang> skyrider : maybe you should mail him directly?
[01:11] <sivang> :)
[01:11] <sivang> I know he wouldn't mind.
[01:13] <skyrider> sivang: OK. I'll mail him tomorrow.
[01:14] <sivang> ok, great. sorry for not being that good service to you.
[01:14] <skyrider> everything great, Sivan. Forget it.
[01:15] <sivang> k
[01:21] <sivang> maybe you just compile too much code..:)
[01:23] <skyrider> sivang: You absolutely right! :)
[02:51] <robertj_> Hornbeck around?
[05:56] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) robertj_: I am now
[05:56] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) for a second at least
[06:54] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) good night
[11:55] <pl0vs> hi guys
[12:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: hey :)
[12:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: did you read my question yesterday about your work on the faq-guide.xml?
[12:10] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yes, writing an answer right now, give me 10 minutes, more
[12:10] <pl0vs> ChrisH, good question btw
[12:11] <ChrisH> Uhm? 10 Minutes? Just expected a yes/no. :)
[12:19] <sivang> Morning all
[12:19] <ChrisH> sivang: hey, master...
[12:19] <sivang> ChrisH : Hi, What's happenin? :)
[12:22] <sivang> I've seen somewhere a call for a meeting, I don't think it would server us too good in this, we can straight up the new format matter over ML, IMHO :)
[12:22] <pl0vs> ok, mailed my reply
[12:22] <ChrisH> sivang: the little one is about to go to bed, my anti-headache pills are starting to be effective, I'm working on UTF-8 in irssi and wonder whether (I|we)'ll adopt horny's TOC structure
[12:23] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'm in favor
[12:23] <ChrisH> If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)
[12:23] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Is your faq-guide.xml anything different than the faq.xml regarding the contents (not the chunked structure)?
[12:23] <pl0vs> anybody knows a thing about man=pages here?
[12:24] <ChrisH> jup
[12:24] <pl0vs> mine is more up-to-date
[12:24] <sivang> pl0vs : what do you like to know?
[12:24] <pl0vs> it is faq.xml plus something
[12:24] <pl0vs> sivang, everything, in five minutes if you can
[12:25] <pl0vs> how do i edit them?
[12:25] <pl0vs> where is the source?
[12:25] <pl0vs> is it docbook?\
[12:25] <sivang> pl0vs : let's see, gemme a sec.
[12:25] <pl0vs> one
[12:25] <pl0vs> two
[12:25] <pl0vs> three
[12:25] <sivang> he hey
[12:25] <sivang> :)
[12:25] <sivang> sec = 10 minutes
[12:26] <sivang> in sivang's time :)
[12:26] <pl0vs> ah, ok
[12:26] <pl0vs> :-)
[12:26] <ChrisH> Could you all commit your changes? I could start to change the TOC structure.
[12:26] <pl0vs> ChrisH, you're talking about the book?

[12:26] <ChrisH> But the book in the /faq tree. ;)
[12:27] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and it will all be docbook?
[12:27] <ChrisH> Yes. Basically it's your work just changed to what John posted.
[12:28] <pl0vs> and you want to redo the faq to a book (just asking so i understand)
[12:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: From what I understood: we use our current FAQ in John's /faq repository, call it "User's Guide" or "Handbook", keep your <book> structure and just put the current content in the section structure as proposed by John
[12:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, ok, fair enough
[12:30] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Lead to a lot of confusion yesterday. :)
[12:31] <pl0vs> it's not so important how we go about solving stuff, many roads lead to the same place
[12:31] <pl0vs> we just need a clear path ahead of us
[12:32] <ChrisH> And I think that this time we are close enough to it.
[12:36] <sivang> just send me updates of what we are deciding :)
[12:37] <pl0vs> ChrisH,  what do you plan on doing, incorperating wiki-stuff or writing all from scratch?
[12:37] <ChrisH> For the protocol: "While sivan attended we decided to permanently block cenerentola, ask Mark for free beer and switched the Handbook from DocBook/XML to Microsoft Word 2004."
[12:38] <pl0vs> three out of four is ok
[12:38] <pl0vs>  cenerentola has been trolling?
[12:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'd like to take the currently articles we already collected in the FAQ and just not use the questions as a title but rather use the structure John proposed on the M.
[12:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Has he ever been doing anything else but trolling? ;)
[12:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, agree on the toc
[12:39] <sivang> hahah
[12:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, do we have an op for the chNNEL?
[12:39] <pl0vs> sorry, caps-lock
[12:39] <ChrisH> pl0vs: sivan and me currently... but you should also get the privs... moment
[12:40] <pl0vs> no prob, just so somebody trustworthy has it
[12:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, will you work on faq-guide or copy it to a new doc?
[12:41] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'd use your current chunked files.
[12:42] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Then we can distribute the pieces among us and start working without too much interference.
[12:42] <pl0vs> ok
[12:42] <pl0vs> agreed
[12:43] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Could you register with nickserv so I can give you op privs?
[12:43] <pl0vs> give it to plovs, not pl0vs
[12:43] <sivang> pl0vs : I need to see how to handle the already "FAQ" in the support area, I had trouble trying to remove it / change it.
[12:44] <pl0vs> or plovs_work
[12:44] <pl0vs> i am not at my own machine atm
[12:44] <sivang> It was added to the support section by mean of the CMS,
[12:44] <ChrisH> pl0vs: is plovs registered?
[12:44] <pl0vs> yes
[12:44] <ChrisH> pl0vs: why don't you use the same nick all the time?
[12:44] <pl0vs> but not atm, i have network problems at home
[12:44] <sivang> not an HTML upload - so, we would also be needing to check if we can TOC it, or have the TOC already made inside the HTML.
[12:46] <pl0vs> sivang, if we call this the ubuntu-guide then we can leave the faq? no?
[12:47] <sivang> I am going to try to erase it all together, or move it somwhere else, or opena new FAQ section :)
[12:48] <sivang> have we taken anything from there into the new , current DocBook FAQ?
[12:48] <pl0vs> sivang, everything
[12:50] <pl0vs> sivang, we just must make sure not to break too many links
[12:50] <pl0vs> people have been linking to faq-answers
[12:51] <sivang> ok, no problem. then a new section that is.
[12:52] <pl0vs> sivang, the curse of backwards-compatibility
[12:52] <ChrisH> Everybody in favor that I change the structure now? We would get a little chaos if you have uncommited changes.
[12:52] <sivang> what structure? 
[12:52] <sivang> of what?
[12:52] <sivang> :))
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, go ahead
[12:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Great. :)
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/1993/ch931121.gif
[12:54] <sivang> ChrisH : heheh
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, for the parents among us
[12:54] <sivang> hahaha
[12:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: :)
[12:55] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I like another strip, too... Calvin: "Dad, think of a number and I'll guess." Dad: "got it." Calvin: "Is it 239879?" Dad: "By God, how did you do that?" Calvin: "Hey, you are trying to get rid of me, right?" Dad: "No, you are psychic. Go show your mother." ;)
[12:56] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yes, calvin and hobbes is probably my fav
[12:56] <ChrisH> mine, too. Already ordered the last book I don't know for christmas. It's mandatory lecture in bed. :)
[12:56] <ChrisH> Even if you are not parenting...
[12:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, my brother showed them to me for the first time, but now he doesn't think it is so funny anymore (he as a real calvin himself now)
[12:57] <sivang> I dind't get the last one :(
[12:57] <ChrisH> sivang: Calvin wants to play number-guessing with his dad. And the dad just wants to get rid of Calvin. :)
[12:57] <pl0vs> sivang, subscribe to:  	http://www.livejournal.com/users/calnhobbes/data/atom
[12:58] <pl0vs> i have it in my bloglines
[01:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: is the <!ENTITY... way the only one to include other files?
[01:10] <pl0vs> afaik yes
[01:11] <pl0vs> but i just copied it from somewhere else
[01:11] <ChrisH> Hmmm. I'm thinking about splitting the parts into different directories. But if I wanted to include sections from there we would still need to define all includes in the main file as opposed to the certain parts.
[01:12] <pl0vs> look in the gnome userguide, they have folders for the pics
[01:12] <pl0vs> but all defines are int he first file yes
[01:27] <sivang_away> pl0vs : apt-get source hello, then look inside the /man dir
[02:38] <sivang> pl0vs : here?
[02:38] <sivang> I just found out how to edit those manpages.
[02:39] <pl0vs> nice, how
[02:46] <ChrisH> sivang: vim?
[02:52] <sivang> ChrisH : sorry, not "how to edit"
[02:52] <sivang> where to find them
[02:52] <ChrisH> ah... :)
[02:52] <sivang> how to submit these to get included in the read package
[02:52] <sivang> I will do a quick wiki page in it, under DocDevel or something.
[02:53] <sivang> hmmm I should also update it to reflect oou new goal change.
[03:34] <hornbeck> ChrisH: are you here?
[03:40] <sivang> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UDPManPageTask
[03:41] <sivang> everybody please take alook
[03:45] <hornbeck> sivang: what has been going on, I thought major discussions was going take part on the mailing list?
[03:45] <sivang> hornbeck : I don't reckon too much :) Have you seen any apparent changes?
[03:45] <sivang> my wiki page is just some try to explain how to go about the fixing of man pages.
[03:46] <hornbeck> hold one sec
[03:46] <hornbeck> I am trying to find it in the log
[03:46] <hornbeck> ChrisH: If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)
[03:46] <hornbeck> he said that last night about the book
[03:47] <hornbeck> that is not right, that was never discussed
[03:47] <hornbeck> everything must go through the ML
[03:47] <hornbeck> (by the way this is about the book being moved)
[03:48] <sivang> I don't think he has done too much already, and if he did, it's only affecting his files, I'
[03:48] <sivang> sure he would discuss it more before he does antyhing widely
[03:48] <sivang> ChrisH : you here?
[03:48] <hornbeck> he is not answering
[03:49] <hornbeck> why do you not think a meeting is a good idea?
[03:52] <sivang> well, it can be a good idea, but why can't we just decided and direct thigns over ML?
[03:52] <sivang> no matter how we try to make the meeting accesible by time,
[03:53] <sivang> the ML has far more broad spread then the irc meetings :)
[03:53] <hornbeck> right, I understand that
[03:53] <hornbeck> but mailings do not hold the face to face feel of a meeting
[03:53] <hornbeck> you cannot get someone's right off reaction on a mailing list
[03:54] <hornbeck> thats fine
[03:54] <sivang> well, I really don't mind the meeting,
[03:54] <hornbeck> I must say though, that I am against what ChrisH is doing right now
[03:54] <sivang> but I would like to see the oppinions of more people..shame nobody responds to much on the ML
[03:54] <hornbeck> I will post to the list about it
[03:55] <sivang> not a problem, you deserve the right to sound your voice - and I don't think he is doing anything wrong, if you disagree just tell how, and make it clear how you want ot make it to go,.
[03:55] <sivang> what do you not agree with exactly?
[03:55] <hornbeck> him and I discussed everyone's involvment in the book
[03:56] <hornbeck> than it appeared he did not know the book existed
[03:57] <hornbeck> than he decided that the faq would become the book
[03:57] <hornbeck> that the work myself and a few others have done on the book would be discarded
[03:57] <hornbeck> and just what him and plovs have done will be added till everyone else starts helping
[03:58] <hornbeck> all of this without everyone's approval
[03:58] <hornbeck> this is something that should be decided by the team
[03:59] <hornbeck> his commint about  "If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)"
[03:59] <hornbeck> that is what really makes me mad
[04:00] <hornbeck> we where in the middle of discussion yesterday when he disappeared, so I figured we would take it back up today
[04:00] <hornbeck> not him decide to proceed without the team saying yes
[04:00] <hornbeck> that is basicly taking all the work that has been done offline "faq/book" discarding one and completly butchering the other
[04:01] <sivang> I think he wants to add the FAQ as a section UNDER the book :)
[04:01] <sivang> I'm sure this is what he meant.
[04:01] <sivang> we talked about it also
[04:01] <sivang> :)
[04:01] <sivang> THe idea is the adtop the book,
[04:01] <sivang> add sections to it,
[04:02] <hornbeck> I am hoping this is all a misunderstanding :-)
[04:02] <sivang> yes it is, I'm sure it is.
 his commint about  "If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)"
[04:02] <sivang>                                                                                 ^^^
[04:02] <sivang> oops
[04:02] <sivang> notice the twink sign?
[04:02] <sivang> it was a joke
[04:02] <hornbeck> yes
[04:02] <sivang> :)
[04:02] <hornbeck> I hope so
[04:03] <hornbeck> he was pushing very hard yesterday for everything to be put into /faq on the svn server
[04:03] <hornbeck> there is no reason to when /book is already there
[04:03] <hornbeck> with the format and everything
[04:03] <hornbeck> I do not want /faq to be gotten rid of
[04:04] <hornbeck> does that make since?
[04:04] <hornbeck> we already have a /book
[04:22] <hornbeck> sivang: you leave?
[04:25] <hornbeck> well I am going to work on a car
[04:25] <hornbeck> later
[04:32] <ChrisH> Sorry... needed to keep the baby busy.
[04:32] <ChrisH> I'm about to commit the new structure. Just a few minutes.
[04:40] <pl0vs> ChrisH, did you read the log? hornbeck does not seem too pleased
[04:40] <ChrisH> Oops. No, I didn't.
[04:40] <ChrisH> But I asked him about four times how we are going to do it. And up to the last I didn't get him clearly. I asked Sivan and he couldn't tell me either.
[04:41] <ChrisH> I can't see anything that did not go through the ML. What I was doing today is exactly what I was proposing.
[04:41] <ChrisH> Somebody tell me what's wrong.
[04:42] <ChrisH> It was my suggestion to merge the book and the FAQ right from the beginning.
[04:43] <sivang> I don't know what's wrong either, didn't he agree to put the faq to be a secion in the book?
[04:43] <ChrisH> The "If we have a majority" had a smiley added (!) and was just a question if the proposed (and approved) merge could begin now. It was a matter of "when" and not of "if".
[04:43] <ChrisH> Yes, he did.
[04:44] <ChrisH> It has been quite a bit of work today to get it done like this. At which point did we not agree to merge it? Do I need a lawyer to translate postings?
[04:45] <ChrisH> Everybody should know that I'm not the "I ignore others" type. I like 90% consensus and 10% action.
[04:45] <sivang> yes I know :) Shame he always goes away when you come in :)
[04:45] <ChrisH> Just when I thought we agreed on something...
[04:46] <sivang> He wanted to do a meeting also about that,
[04:46] <sivang> I didn't see so much how a meeting can help us 
[04:46] <sivang> and I noted to him that you had the ;) next to sentence there.
[04:47] <ChrisH> Don't mean to offend hornbeck but neither do I. Since we have this fine channel I see no need for an additional meeting. (Other than that the timezone differences are bad.)
[04:47] <ChrisH> <quote hornbeck>
[04:47] <ChrisH> I get more and more confused everyday.  I think that I should be working
[04:47] <ChrisH> on the book, but also trying to help maintain the faq, gnome-guide,
[04:47] <ChrisH> wiki, and in the end I don't get much done because I am stretching
[04:47] <ChrisH> myself to thin.  I think avoiding double-work is a great idea, and in
[04:47] <ChrisH> the original idea for the book, I was going to mainly take other bits
[04:47] <ChrisH> and pieces and tie them together from the wiki and debian docs and such
[04:47] <ChrisH> so that it would incorporate all the docs already there.
[04:47] <ChrisH> </quote hornbeck>
[04:49] <ChrisH> I wanted to have the whole doc mess cleaned up and merged. Why is he going to work on a book that is can't handle because he is alone?
[04:50] <sivang> I've pinged enrico
[04:50] <sivang> I'll want him to help us straight this out.
[04:50] <ChrisH> Good idea.
[04:51] <ChrisH> I don't mind doing it like this or that. But we need a direction. I really don't feel like editing documents that are merged, joined, thrown away and started from scratch.
[04:51] <pl0vs> in the end we all want the same, we want this thing to go ahead, and we might be calling the same thing with differnt names
[04:51] <ChrisH> pl0vs: The only thing that is unclear to me: do we merge everything into a handbook? Or do we have John's book and a collection of FAQs.
[04:52] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Not *those* pills. ;)
[04:52] <pl0vs> i do not care either way
[04:52] <pl0vs> the only thing i do not want is wasted work
[04:52] <pl0vs> we should try to keep what we have
[04:53] <pl0vs> moving it around is no problem, nor is naming it diffrently, faq, book, hornbecks book chris's faq, whatever
[04:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, are hornbeck's files in docbook?
[04:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, can they be merged?
[04:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: They are in DocBook and very similar to our work.
[04:55] <pl0vs> ChrisH,  how much work would it be to merge it all in one doc?
[04:56] <ChrisH> Let's see...
[04:56] <pl0vs> one hour, two, a week, forever?
[04:57] <ChrisH> Hardly any work. He has just started on "his book".
[04:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but the toc is good?
[04:58] <ChrisH> To make it clear what I intended: John's book structure is nice - I like it. I just wanted to put our current little articles into his structure.
[04:59] <pl0vs> so if i understand it right, the only thing that ticked of john is either a misunderstanding of what you are doing or he didn't like you moving his bok in the faq directory and calling it faq, right?
[04:59] <pl0vs> then it might  be easy to straighten it out, afaik
[05:00] <ChrisH> It probably is.
[05:01] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and you wanted to add all the stuff from the wiki in the book?
[05:01] <sivang> he just misunderstood.
[05:01] <ChrisH> Yep.
[05:01] <sivang> I'm sure of it
[05:02] <ChrisH> I assume he saw me taking away "his book". But as he said he cannot handle it alone and we don't want to do double-work it seemed only logical to me to join those two documents.
[05:03] <pl0vs> ChrisH, why don't you make a proof-of-concept?
[05:04] <pl0vs> ChrisH, then we discuss that, vote, whatever and get back to work
[05:04] <sivang> ChrisH : I stand behind every word :)
[05:05] <sivang> we can do a ML voting maybe
[05:06] <pl0vs> ChrisH, sivang did you read john's lates mail to the list? it is what we are *all* talking about
[05:06] <pl0vs> newcoolubuntudoc = docbook(book + faq) 
[05:06] <ChrisH> I agree that the faq should not be ditched.  I think what we have should
[05:06] <ChrisH> be moved up and maybe branched in with the book.  I do not support just
[05:06] <ChrisH> trashing the faq by any means.
[05:07] <sivang> pl0vs : I like your notation :)
[05:07] <ChrisH> That's what John wrote. And that's exactly what I intended.
[05:07] <ChrisH> No matter if it's /faq or /book. We'll surely find a location and ditch the other tree.
[05:08] <pl0vs> sivang, i am at another computer, what is the svn address of the book?
[05:08] <sivang> then we do not have a problem at all :)
[05:08] <sivang> hmm, I wouldn't know..:)
[05:08] <pl0vs> sivang, pfew, i'm happy about that, i do not like fighting
[05:09] <sivang> me neither
[05:13] <hornbeck> are we all here?
[05:14] <hornbeck> I am back and just read the log
[05:14] <hornbeck> I apologize to ChrisH, I misunderstood what he was talking about
[05:14] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What do you think? Everybody picks a part of the book and merges the FAQ sections there?
[05:15] <hornbeck> I have reread all of the post and everything, I was very confused about the direction and being mad already I read the "if we have three" post as a literal
[05:15] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What if I finish the work on what I currently have in the /faq repository (includes your works on the book) and commit that? Nothing will get lost.
[05:15] <hornbeck> ChrisH: sounds good to me
[05:15] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Thanks. :)
[05:16] <hornbeck> sorry I jumped the gun :-)
[05:16] <hornbeck> and it is not "my book"
[05:16] <hornbeck> it was a book I was working on
[05:16] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I'll still be off for 30-60 minutes. So the commit will be probably in about two hours. I think we will all be happy.
[05:16] <hornbeck> ChrisH: I hope so
[05:16] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Okay... just thought our emotions came in the way of the work.
[05:17] <hornbeck> well we seem on the same page now
[05:17] <hornbeck> so everything is going to be in the /faq directory?
[05:20] <hornbeck> I am off for a few hours, please go ahead and merge and we will work out details later
[05:53] <pl0vs> sivang, awake?
[06:01] <sivang> yes, hre
[06:01] <sivang> herhe
[06:03] <pl0vs> i am looking at the man-pages atm, thanks for the page
[06:03] <pl0vs> i was hoping we could have some svn repo, but it will just be in the packages
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, you would need to change the packages themselves. :(
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Perhaps you extract the man page, correct it, create a "diff" and send it through bugzille.
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Same old story: nobody but canonical is supposed to upload "main" packages.
[06:04] <sivang> yes, my understanding says that we just send patches to bugzilla and the packg maintainers would take care of this.
[06:04] <sivang> yes
[06:05] <pl0vs> sivang, how is the gnome-guide, you did some work on that right?
[06:05] <pl0vs> ChrisH, well, i have upload status, afaik, or at least i could get it
[06:06] <sivang> you looked at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UDPManPageTask ?
[06:06] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but i prefer diffing to bugzilla for the time being
[06:06] <ChrisH> pl0vs: for "main"? really?
[06:07] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i did not really look into it as i am not planning to use it atm, but afaik i am a maintainer and have the right to upload packages yes
[06:07] <sivang> pl0vs : you were approved on the last CC meeting right?
[06:07] <sivang> That's interesting/
[06:07] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm not sure about that. But I'm not even a maintainer. :)
[06:08] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but i would prefer starting on something unimportant, maybe apt is not the right package to experiment with...
[06:08] <ChrisH> pl0vs: If you just change the man page... that should be fine. :) You just needed to rebuild the package and that's it.
[06:09] <sivang> pl0vs :  I think sabdfl noted that he wouldn't want to see people who were supposdly working on docs to commit packages..
[06:09] <sivang> before they get enough approval by the TB
[06:09] <sivang> he noted something about someone doing so being "a social problem" as they currently lack the infrasructure to enforce that.
[06:10] <pl0vs> sivang, i agree with him, and i am not (yet) planning to do any of the kind
[06:11] <sivang> well, that just solves my pkging grief maybe :) I had talked to seb128 on the yelp packages, wanted to help on it and eventually this got form as me sneding the patch to bugsilla,
[06:11] <sivang> he asked jdub and the conclusion was they want to keep main packages at canonical hands in the meanwhile.
[06:12] <pl0vs> sivang, not everybody has the same opinion, read the cc-meeting sabdfl is the most liberal, jdub (if i remember right), more conservative 
[06:13] <hornbeck> sivang: as far as I understood, once we had our gpg keys signed well enough and understood packageing maintainers could upload fixes
[06:13] <hornbeck> I was told that once my key is signed by a decent amount I could upload
[06:13] <pl0vs> Hoodster, that is what i understood as well, but i do understand they do not want newbies to mess up main
[06:13] <sivang> btw, on hoary you can already use the official package - my patch is already incorporated into it.
[06:13] <pl0vs> that was supposed to be hornbeck 
[06:14] <hornbeck> pl0vs: correct, they want us to have some experiance first, but in time we will have upload status
[06:14] <pl0vs> sivang, does the new yelp read apt man-pages in xml?
[06:15] <hornbeck> is evolution broke in Hoary for anyone else?
[06:15] <hornbeck> it stopped working today
[06:15] <sivang> pl0vs : provided that XML is DocBook enough, I guess that it can.
[06:15] <hornbeck> :-(
[06:15] <sivang> hornbeck : might be, I got really tired with that, switched to mutt and thunderbird in the meanwhile
[06:16] <hornbeck> I just moved my mail to the server
[06:16] <pl0vs> sivang, could you try: apt-get source apt, and in the doc folder try one of the xml files?
[06:16] <hornbeck> really need to get it fixed though so I can use it on my laptop again
[06:16] <pl0vs> hornbeck, gmail,gmail!
[06:16] <hornbeck> pl0vs: I am not a big fan of online mail
[06:16] <hornbeck> I like evolution
[06:17] <hornbeck> I am thinking of moving to cvs so I can keep track of it
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, it has pop-access as well
[06:17] <sivang> pl0vs : yes why not, is this where my bug is sitting? (of the sources.list)
[06:17] <hornbeck> pl0vs: even with pop access if I have no reader than it will not work
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, if evo does not work you have web-access
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, and if  it does you have evo
[06:18] <hornbeck> I have web-access to my mail anyway
[06:18] <pl0vs> hornbeck, or you must set up imap on your server and use evo or mutt
[06:18] <hornbeck> I just prefer evo
[06:18] <pl0vs> hornbeck, imap?
[06:18] <hornbeck> imap?
[06:18] <sivang> imaps rocks
[06:18] <sivang> mutt also
[06:18] <hornbeck> what is imap may I ask?
[06:19] <pl0vs> hornbeck, ah, that is pop as it was meant to be
[06:19] <hornbeck> I will look into that real quick
[06:19] <pl0vs> hornbeck, search "pop vs imap" on google
[06:20] <hornbeck> I am reading a imap page right now
[06:20] <sivang> pl0vs : we need to convert it, it doesn't like this form of xml files.
[06:21] <pl0vs> sivang, hmm too bad, converting it would mean moving far away from  debain
[06:21] <sivang> pl0vs : what kind of xml is this?
[06:21] <pl0vs> sivang, which means a lot of maintenance
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang,  refentry
[06:22] <sivang> I am not sure yelp is the right tool to display man pages in the desktop
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang, ?????
[06:22] <sivang> there's GUI man page readers
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang, i humbly disagree
[06:22] <sivang> like xman and it's more civilized desendents.
[06:23] <pl0vs> sivang, we should have one of-line doc-reader
[06:23] <pl0vs> sivang, but i remmeber talk about making yelp man-page friendly
[06:24] <sivang> I don't recall, I might be mistaken
[06:25] <sivang> I am checking again,
[06:25] <sivang> topday os the GNOME love day dedicated to yelp btw :0
[06:25] <sivang> :)
[06:26] <hornbeck> anyone know of a good tutorial about setting up a mail server?
[06:26] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Yes. ;) But it depends what you want to do.
[06:27] <sivang> pl0vs : yes there are plans to use it for man pages reading :)
[06:27] <sivang> you rememebred right.
[06:27] <sivang> my memory starts to fail on me I guess.
[06:28] <pl0vs> hornbeck, be nice to ChrisH he is our local mail deity 
[06:29] <ChrisH> Nah... nobody needs to be nice to me because of that. ;)
[06:29] <pl0vs> hornbeck, say the magic words: i want postfix+courier
[06:30] <ChrisH> pl0vs: My irssi is set to auto-exit if it senses "postfix", "courier" and "mysql" in the same line. :)
[06:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i removed mysql (on purpose)
[06:30] <sivang> hahaha
[06:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what do you prefer for imap?
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: courier.
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I switched even my local mailboxes to courier a few weeks ago. The maildir structure is a little ugly but it works well with mutt.
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I had the uw-imapd running for myself and the courier-imap for the users. Not very slick to run two daemons on two interfaces.
[06:32] <ChrisH> pl0vs: And sivang is testing my mail server regularly so I don't need a network monitoring program. :)
[06:32] <pl0vs> ChrisH, does he have an account on your server, smart move, free checking of up-times
[06:32] <hornbeck> ChrisH: I want to set up a mail server for me
[06:33] <hornbeck> right now my @freeshell.org account gets overloaded
[06:33] <hornbeck> I recieve about 500 email a day
[06:33] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes... I set him up sivan.workaround.org and an email account. Seems to work so far.
[06:33] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Do you already have a domain and MX entry pointing to your mail server?
[06:33] <pl0vs> ChrisH, nice to know where to beg if i evr need an account :-)
[06:33] <hornbeck> no, I don't even know where to start
[06:33] <hornbeck> I am looking for a tutorial
[06:34] <hornbeck> or a site to start me in the direction
[06:34] <hornbeck> looks like I found one
[06:34] <hornbeck> nevermind
[06:34] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm moving a server to a computer room in a few days. Then we'll have plenty of space and bandwidth. If you need a subdomain, email accounts or whatever... just ring.
[06:34] <hornbeck> I have to run guys
[06:34] <hornbeck> need to fix a car
[06:34] <ChrisH> hornbeck: you should start here: http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html
[06:35] <sivang> pl0vs : http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/yelpshots/yelp-ls.png
[06:35] <pl0vs> ChrisH, thanks, i'll keep it in mind
[06:35] <sivang> but it's only usable from CVS HEAD,
[06:35] <ChrisH> sivang: no problem... I like it that you share your intimate emails with me :)
[06:36] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i like your tutorial more actually
[06:36] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Thanks. :)
[06:36] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and the postfix book from oreilly as well
[06:36] <ChrisH> sivang: Did you read that I have maillog.workaround.org up now? Everybody can read your mailbox. What a great service. You don't even need to log in. That's very convenient, isn't it?
[06:37] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Haven't ordered it. I still need to read other books. And I wonder if there is a Python book from them.
[06:37] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's not that good, if you can write your tutorial you do not need the book
[06:38] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i can show you if you want in spain\
[06:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, I'm curious.
[06:38] <ChrisH> In fact I learned a lot in #postfix and on the mailing list.
[06:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, remind me a day or so before, then i'll bring it
[06:39] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Isn't it too heavy for the plane? It's not that important.
[06:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i only bring one small bag, no problem
[06:40] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Just one set of clothes for 4-5 days? Uuuh. :)
[06:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i have a really handy suitcase, and small-foldable clothes, i travel often and light
[06:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, don't worry i don't smell :-)
[06:42] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'm married now, those days are over
[06:42] <pl0vs> sivang, nice the new yelp, is it in hoary or only in cvs?
[06:43] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I thought men begin to smell again once they are married. :)
[06:44] <sivang> cvs
[06:47] <pl0vs> ChrisH, about python, you should shop around but i like:  O'Reilly.Learning.Python.2nd.Ed.2003 (i have a chm copy, i plan to buy the book)
[06:47] <pl0vs> ChrisH, o'reilly as well
[06:47] <ChrisH> Nice.
[06:48] <ChrisH> I was reading an URL mdz showed me. But I would like to have something like the "Perl Cookbook" in Python.
[06:48] <pl0vs> ChrisH, python cookbook?
[06:48] <ChrisH> My first Python scripts will probably just be Perl with another syntax. But the philosophy seems to be different.
[06:48] <ChrisH> pl0vs: There is a cookbook? Nice.
[06:50] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i have it as pdf if you want to check before you buy?
[06:50] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's a pain to read from a screen, but ok to check it out
[06:50] <ChrisH> pl0vs: With pleasure.
[06:51] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm one click away from buying it on amazon. :)
[06:52] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's 1.8 mb, should i mail it?
[06:52] <sivang> ChrisH : what book is this?
[06:52] <ChrisH> pl0vs: yes, please
[06:54] <sivang> ahhhh! just saw the message regarding maillog! no!!!
[06:54] <sivang> :)
[06:54] <ChrisH> sivang: :)
[06:54] <sivang> btw, what book are you talking about? can I also get a copy?
[06:54] <ChrisH> Python Cookbook
[06:55] <sivang> ayh!
[06:55] <sivang> splendid
[06:55] <ChrisH> I'm sure I can catch up the basics of Python online. But I probably need some recipes on how to do what.
[07:01] <pl0vs> ChrisH, /usr/share/doc/diveintopython/html/toc/index.html and the python docs are quite good as well
[07:02] <sivang> pl0vs : how much are you already into python?
[07:02] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, diveintopython is really nice. I started to dream of "everything is an object". :)
[07:03] <sivang> everything IS an object :)
[07:04] <ChrisH> sivang: You better not try to flirt with girls with that slogan...
[07:07] <pl0vs> sivang, not far enough, i'm afraid
[07:15] <pl0vs> where is whois?
[07:15] <ChrisH> ?
[07:15] <pl0vs> the command, i don't have it
[07:15] <ChrisH> for IPs?
[07:15] <ChrisH>  /whois pl0vs 
[07:16] <pl0vs> no to look up my domain
[07:16] <ChrisH> pl0vs: www.internic.net for .com
[07:16] <ChrisH> pl0vs: or my favorite site: www.dnsstuff.com
[07:16] <pl0vs> dig, ping, whois etc
[07:16] <pl0vs> the whois command does that
[07:18] <ChrisH> The QWERTY effect. ;)
[07:28] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what is the opposite of ctrl-p in vim (search forward)
[07:28] <ChrisH> pl0vs: n
[07:28] <ChrisH> = net
[07:28] <ChrisH> = next
[07:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Do you know the vim command for opening the filename the cursor points at? There is "K" for man pages. I swear I once saw that for files.
[07:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: would be really handy for this document
[07:31] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i know it exists...
[07:31] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i mean ctrl-p for completion, p is backwards completion
[07:33] <ChrisH> pl0vs: ah. ctrl-n of course :)
[07:33] <ChrisH> next/previous
[07:43] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i had an override in my bashrc, duh
[07:44] <pl0vs> ChrisH, imap \fn   <C-R>=expand("%:t:r")<CR> 
[07:45] <pl0vs> ChrisH, this inserts it
[07:45] <ChrisH> oops
[07:53] <pl0vs> ChrisH, you working on the faq-book-guide?
[07:54] <ChrisH> Yes... I'm in the last chapter of John.
[07:54] <ChrisH> Was a little more work. But I think it's worth it.
[07:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i am really curious, i svn update every 5 minutes
[07:57] <ChrisH> :)
[07:57] <ChrisH> I think I'll keep that for myself, ask O'Reilly and get richer than Mark. ;)
[07:58] <ChrisH> "hornbeck" is just another of my nicks to distract you. :)
[08:11] <ChrisH> DONE!
[08:12] <pl0vs> ChrisH, great!
[08:12] <sivang> so it the faq and book merged already?
[08:12] <sivang> :)
[08:13] <ChrisH> yes... one moment though... some files are not yet added
[08:13] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what does this do? i don't get it:    <para>Uses HTTP to access the archive at archive.ubuntu.com, and uses only
[08:13] <pl0vs>    the hamm/main area.</para>
[08:13] <pl0vs>    <literallayout>deb http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive hamm main</literallayout>
[08:13] <pl0vs> uses onl the hamm/main area. ????
[08:14] <ChrisH> NOW!
[08:15] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it even has icon-like pictures!
[08:16] <ChrisH> Please read the README. I invested some time cleaning the titles and reference IDs.
[08:17] <ChrisH> It would be nice if we have a consistent formatting and syntax.
[08:17] <ChrisH> I pray this is okay for everyone.
[08:18] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i do not see many faq-issues
[08:19] <pl0vs> ChrisH, will they be merged or will they stay seperate?
[08:19] <ChrisH> pl0vs: They are still in the parts/old directory.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: My idea would be that everyone picks a chapter and grabs the FAQs that fit into his sections from the old/ directory.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I know this doesn't look like much work - but it was. If I made you wait until I distributed and rewrote the old FAQ it had taken another day.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I hope everybody can cut out the pieces from there.
[08:20] <pl0vs> ChrisH, ok, i had a really long and good sounding question but it is no longer necessary to ask...
[08:21] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i know, i redid the faq
[08:21] <ChrisH> pl0vs: did you send the PDF to gmail? I'm curious. :)
[08:21] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yesterday already
[08:21] <ChrisH> pl0vs: tnx
[08:22] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I have used xincludes instead of entities now for including files. That way it's a little more clearly laid out and it works recursively.
[08:24] <ChrisH> Okay... thanks for the discussion. I hope everyone feels okay about this one. So let's pick our pieces and get ready to rumble. ;)
[08:24] <ChrisH> I'll take the rest of the day off. But just tell me if we need to change anything or if someone objects.
[08:27] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'll send a write-up to the ML
[08:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: tnx
[08:45] <sivang> pl0vs : I think I'll start with the 3 subsections under the 'about'
[08:45] <sivang> pl0vs : boy it looks great1
[08:46] <sivang> ChrisH : Well Done!
[08:46] <sivang> How did you make it look in yelp that good?
[08:47] <sid77> hi
[08:58] <ChrisH> But let's hear what hornbeck says. ;)
[08:58] <sivang> ChrisH : it's superb
[08:59] <sivang> hi sid77
[08:59] <ChrisH> sivang: Thanks. But it's still only the TOC and the article about installing Ubuntu from John.
[08:59] <ChrisH> sivang: Now comes the part for everybody where we can work on.
[09:00] <sivang> ChrisH : I am taking the 'About' part, where do you think the background guide can be incorporated, if at all?
[09:00] <sid77> hi sivang
[09:00] <ChrisH> sivang: Hi, Sid.
[09:00] <sid77> lol
[09:00] <sid77> tab frenzy?
[09:00] <ChrisH> sivang: What kind of background exactly? The meaning of Gnu, Ubuntu and Linux should be in the first chapter IMHO.
[09:01] <ChrisH> sivang: Could you (as hour honorable chief master organiser) manage the information who works on what? We could as well put that into the document itself.
[09:01] <ChrisH> sivang: I offer myself for sysconfig or software.
[09:02] <sivang> ChrisH : yes! thy humble servant ! :)) MOUHHAHAHA
[09:02] <sivang> Let's start with a MOIN MOIN table on the wiki
[09:02] <sivang> :)
[09:04] <sivang> I got a nasty rash last time I tried to use ReST
[09:08] <sid77> bye all
[09:25] <ChrisH> sivang: okay... but then we have it twice in the docs again...
[09:25] <sivang> ChrisH : huh?
[09:25] <ChrisH> in the wiki and in the docbook (the toc)
[09:26] <ChrisH> but that is probably not our biggest problem
[09:26] <sivang> you mean where to put the table with where everybody say what he is working on?
[09:26] <plovs> we should remove redundant stuff from the wiki imo
[09:27] <ChrisH> can't we just put our names in the chapters we are working on?
[09:27] <plovs> ChrisH, why don't we all just pick a chapter?
[09:27] <plovs> on the ML
[09:28] <plovs> and when it's finished, say so and it's open for all
[09:28] <ChrisH> plovs: k
[09:28] <ChrisH> just please not yet another wiki page :)
[09:29] <plovs> ?? should reduce the number of wiki pages
[09:29] <plovs> we
[09:30] <plovs> dump half the wiki in the book
[09:30] <plovs> and use wiki for updates
[09:30] <plovs> imho
[09:30] <ChrisH> yes please
[09:30] <ChrisH> The "documentation team" aka the "anti-wiki gang" :)
[09:31] <plovs> since we wrote most of it in the first place, we can undo it as well
[09:31] <plovs> besides the book should be published in the support section asap
[09:32] <plovs> just send your prefeered chapter to the ML
[09:32] <plovs> sivang, you ok with this?
[09:33] <ChrisH> plovs: asap will probably still be a 2-4 weeks from now
[09:33] <plovs> ChrisH, that's the ap part of asap, i suppose
[09:33] <plovs> but it should be before barcelona if possible
[09:33] <plovs> even if beta
[09:33] <sivang> Yes, as the chairman I agree :)
[09:34] <sivang> But, it would cost ya bucks people
[09:34] <sivang> :)
[09:34] <ChrisH> sivang: Your honor. You are discharged of your duties for telling rubbish. You will further serve as a proofreader of Gentoo. :)
[09:38] <plovs> ChrisH, we would need some extra wiki-pages, actually, errata for the guide
[09:38] <plovs> one page for every part maybe
[09:38] <sivang> hahaha
[09:38] <ChrisH> containing what exactly?
[09:39] <plovs> ChrisH, errata, things that are not there typos etc
[09:40] <sivang> but please don't make me proofread for Gentoo
[09:40] <sivang> please
[09:40] <sivang> anywa, so we leave off the wiki page for the task assignment?
[09:40] <plovs> mandrake? bug reports?
[09:40] <plovs> sivang, i vote for ML
[09:41] <plovs> for now
[09:41] <plovs> we're only four/five guys anyway
[09:41] <sivang> ok then
[09:42] <sivang> I don't mind, it supports my wiki lazzyness
[09:42] <sivang> :)
[09:42] <plovs> i call it a day, i have a busy day tomorrow, see ya all!
[09:42] <sivang> bye plovs!
[09:44] <ChrisH> anyone posting on the ML?
[09:44] <sivang> I did
[09:44] <sivang> I said I will do the 'About'
[09:48] <ChrisH> i will do the sysconfig.
[09:48] <ChrisH> Let's see what John is on for.
[09:48] <plovs> ChrisH, what's your sig?
[09:48] <sivang> post the ML
[09:49] <plovs> ChrisH, ".signature" [Modified]  3 lines --100%--                3,41         All
[09:50] <ChrisH> that *is* my sig :)
[09:54] <ChrisH> hmm... once the doc is done we should think about a translation
[09:56] <sivang> we have already many people eager for teanslation,
[09:56] <sivang> littlegreenman would be the guy for the protugeese
[09:56] <sivang> skyrider for russian
[09:58] <sivang> what does that signature mean?
[09:59] <ChrisH> Never used "vim" before? :)
[09:59] <sivang> I use it just to edit conffiles,
[10:00] <sivang> other than that, I'm still VIM dummey
[10:00] <ChrisH> just look at the bottom line when you have vim open
[10:05] <sivang> nothing
[10:06] <ChrisH> try Ctrl-G
[10:10] <sivang> nothing special
[10:10] <ChrisH> okay... it's supposed to be an editor windows of vim editing a ".signature" file. so it's a recursive vim-insider gag. :)
[10:11] <sivang> and I absolutely understood this phrase :)
[10:11] <sivang> or not,
[10:11] <sivang> sivang.understand(chrish) or die(
[10:11] <sivang> "error at line1")
[10:12] <ChrisH> are you snaking me?
[10:12] <sivang> snaking?
[10:12] <sivang> no
[10:12] <sivang> what does that mean?
[10:13] <ChrisH> python?
[10:14] <sivang> ah it was mixing python and perl ;)
[10:14] <sivang> got you on vim
[10:14] <sivang> I now see the line at the bottom
[10:14] <sivang> "[No File] " [Modified]  8 lines --100%--                                           8,0-1         All
[11:00] <falco> hi
[11:01] <falco> is the documentation team
[11:01] <falco> responsable for documentation translation
[11:01] <falco> ?
[11:01] <sivang> yes falco, how are you?
[11:03] <falco> I'm fine
[11:04] <sivang> Are you interested in translating stuff?
[11:04] <falco> I would like to give a hand in the Portuguese translation
[11:04] <sivang> ah great!
[11:05] <falco> and if I have time I might do more than that
[11:05] <sivang> There is already someone who also likes to contribute on that front,
[11:05] <sivang> littlegreenman
[11:05] <sivang> he's also portuguese
[11:05] <sivang> :)
[11:05] <falco> yes
[11:05] <falco> great
[11:05] <ChrisH> sivang: do we have a translation organisation page on the wiki?
[11:06] <sivang> ChrisH : we have the translation communties page on the mai site,
[11:07] <falco> I'll speak to him
[11:19] <sivang> falco : I would advice to also post to ML, after subscribing to it,
[11:20] <sivang> introducting yourself etc,
[11:20] <sivang> expressing your intention to contribute in translation to portuguese
[11:20] <sivang> :)
[11:20] <falco> ok
[11:20] <falco> I'll in a few minutes
[11:20] <sivang> cc:lulu@canonical.com for that matter 
[11:20] <falco> ok
[11:42] <falco> sivang: is that your e-mail?
[11:46] <sivang> no, this is the email for the contact person in canonical that takes care of the interactio between the docteam and the company :)
[11:46] <sivang> but you need not email them persoannly,
[11:46] <sivang> just post the list.
[11:51] <falco> ok
[11:51] <falco> just to know what should I put in evolution contacts
[11:52] <sivang> you should subscribe first
[11:54] <sivang> and come here tommorow also, maybe early to get some of the doc team people to know you
[11:59] <littlegreenman> been away sivang
[11:59] <sivang> littlegreenman : falco is here is also willing to join the translation front, would you like to tell him what you already know - also, where is that page with langs communites?
[11:59] <sivang> :)
[12:00] <littlegreenman> sivang: yeah, no prob
[12:00] <sivang> thanks
[12:00] <littlegreenman> sivang: i have one tiny problem... is that i don't know where the work of the new ubuntu help file
[12:00] <littlegreenman> is located or better