[12:17] (mjg59/#ubuntu-devel) bob2: Rock
[12:43] <btfan> hi
[12:43] <btfan> is it possible that windows network printing colud be improved?
[12:44] <btfan> basically, is it possible for ubuntu to scan the subnet, find the smb hosts and search for printers and put them in the 'detected' printers dialog?
[01:49] <eruin> for future reference
[01:49] <eruin> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3979
[01:49] <eruin> have I got priority, severity, etc right on that one?
[02:19] <hornbeck> did evolution break for anyone else today?
[02:29] <eruin> haven't seen any evolution updates in a couple of days
[02:36] <robertj> mine just started working
[02:40] <eruin> mine has the occasional crash when frantically selecting text in mails
[02:52] <robertj> still crashing
[02:52] <robertj> but its more working than before
[02:52] <robertj> when I just got a toolbar with a send/receive ubtton ;)
[02:53] <eruin> :)
[03:14] <calc> jdub: heh
[03:14] <wasabi> kalc.
[03:14] <wasabi> kalk i mean
[03:14] <eruin> a bit shy, calc?
[03:14] <calc> eruin: jdub seems to be swamped by users telling him what he better do ;)
[03:15] <eruin> yeah, I've been following it ;)
[03:15] <eruin> ~
[03:15] <wasabi> yeah so i have no idea what to do with pam_krb5
[03:15] <wasabi> since im not installing fedora to find out what they use
[03:21] <eruin> can't wait for gimp2.2
[03:21] <jdub> wasabi: check their src.rpms
[03:21] <wasabi> incoming u-d post.
[03:22] <calc> wonder what kind of hell its going to be once the menus merge and all three are changed (debian/gnome/kde) to a unified one ;)
[03:22] <calc> people are already whining that one simple package moved in a menu
[03:22] <wasabi> I could care less about KDE's menu at this point.
[03:22] <wasabi> =)
[03:23] <robertj> calc: break them from the habit. Move them randomly
[03:23] <calc> wasabi: once gnome 2.9/2.10 is out the gnome/kde menu is one and the same
[03:23] <wasabi> I like the Computer menu concept extremely well.
[03:23] <calc> its the fdo menu
[03:23] <Keybuk> calc: this is where it's great to have your own distro and be allowed to exercise sanity ;)
[03:23] <wasabi> THe clear seperate between applications and system configuration
[03:23] <robertj> wasabi: I like it but I'm not a fan of having places on the computer menu
[03:24] <wasabi> I just want to be able to launch apps from it easily, without having to make panel launchers like I do.
[03:24] <Keybuk> robertj: the "plan" is to have a Places menu in hoary, which is shared with the Gtk file manager and nautilus
[03:24] <wasabi> I dislike having tons of panel launchers
[03:24] <wasabi> hard to organize and maintain
[03:24] <drbyte> asterisk is in universe, i presume ?
[03:24] <calc> Keybuk: heh
[03:24] <robertj> Keybuk: What is Gtk file manager?
[03:24] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) drbyte: yes
[03:24] <jdub> robertj: the filechooser
[03:24] <robertj> oh, ok
[03:24] <Keybuk> uh, GtkFileChooser
[03:25] <Keybuk> brain isn't quite in gear
[03:25] <robertj> just checking
[03:25] <eruin> it's cli!
[03:25] <eruin> eek
[03:26] <wasabi> so when's ubuntu going to package 2.6.9?
[03:26] <eruin> I didn't part with lots of cash for my mouse just to use a cli
[03:26] <Keybuk> wasabi: of?
[03:26] <Keybuk> kernel?
[03:26] <wasabi> yeah.
[03:26] <drbyte> tseng: thanks. we're gonna try build a voip system now
[03:26] <jdub> i haven't opened my ubuntu-users folder for days :|
[03:27] <eruin> wasabi, hopefully along with nvidia 6629
[03:27] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) hey jdub, tiny mistake in tomboy control
[03:27] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) im missing a closing parens on depends, it got uploaded to hoary like that
[03:28] <jdub> d'oh
[03:28] <wasabi> ain't lintian suppose to catch that stuff? *hides*
[03:29] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: i fixed it and then updated to 0.2.2, i can send source somewhere or file a bug, whatever is most convenient for you
[03:29] <robertj> also, does anyone ever wonder if the Computer menu should have an icon similar to the Applications menu?
[03:29] <wasabi> I like apple's way of doing it actually.
[03:29] <robertj> or is that just my hangup ;)
[03:29] <wasabi> The icon is the menu.
[03:29] <wasabi> ANd it's the System Menu.
[03:29] <wasabi> With all the Important System Stuff.
[03:29] <jdub> robertj: it'd be kinda confusing (the applications menu icon is a bit confusing in itself)
[03:30] <jdub> tseng: send me a url :)
[03:30] <robertj> jdub: yeah, it's a catch 22. Because if you do then you say "well then, why is the application icon a foot"
[03:30] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) the icon on the app menu is just a throwback to the old foot
[03:30] <robertj> it seems empty without the foot though
[03:30] <wasabi> I'd do what apple does
[03:30] <wasabi> First menu, ubuntu icon. System config stuff. Stuff that's in COmputer now.
[03:31] <wasabi> (some stuff from computer)
[03:31] <wasabi> like log out, etc.
[03:31] <robertj> Users have a real tough time finding log out under the apple menu
[03:31] <wasabi> It says to the user "this is the menu that lets you edit Ubuntu the system"
[03:31] <wasabi> Well, then name it System or something too
[03:31] <Keybuk> the annoying thing about that is it breaks Fitt's Law
[03:31] <robertj> to me it says "This is a foot. We put everything that is hard to categorize in here."
[03:32] <wasabi> I am not aware of Fitts law
[03:32] <eruin> apple's apple isn't something I love
[03:32] <robertj> wasabi: it's the only rule anyone knows about UI design
[03:32] <Keybuk> wasabi: "The most used things should be the easiest things to click."  basically
[03:32] <jdub> Keybuk: pfft.
[03:32] <robertj> although one fact that the UI needs to face is that people don't often launch applications
[03:32] <wasabi> Sucky rule.
[03:32] <Keybuk> it's very easy to throw your mouse into the top-left of the screen and click what ever's there
[03:32] <robertj> it comproises maybe 1/10,000th of the average computer usage
[03:32] <wasabi> The most used things should be arranged where they are expected.
[03:32] <wasabi> So somebody can find them
[03:32] <wasabi> Not just On The Top
[03:33] <Keybuk> robertj: sure, but they launch more applications than they take screenshots
[03:33] <Keybuk> unless they're jdub, of course :p
[03:33] <robertj> Keybuk: yeah, agreed on that one
[03:33] <Keybuk> who I think has tipped the balance the other way
[03:33] <robertj> having the Places menu in the Upper Left would seem better
[03:33] <robertj> your more often going somewhere than opening an appliation
[03:33] <wasabi> I like hte idea of classify items as "things you do to the computer", "things you do within your desktop environment".
[03:34] <wasabi> but that's JUST ME
[03:34] <Keybuk> robertj: hmm, I can't comment -- I have a sneaky suspicion you're right
[03:34] <wasabi> I like the idea of a Places menu.
[03:34] <jdub> robertj: there's a thread on d-d-l about possible menu changes upstream
[03:34] <jdub> which includes:
[03:34] <jdub> Applications  Places  System
[03:34] <jdub> and
[03:34] <jdub> [foot]   Applications  Places
[03:35] <wasabi> System Applications Places
[03:35] <wasabi> Where System can be a icon. ;)
[03:35] <eruin> Places Applications System'd seem better
[03:35] <jdub> that's what [foot]  i
[03:35] <jdub> s
[03:35] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: try http://www.smarterits.com/~brandon/ubuntu/
[03:35] <robertj> The big thing is users expect their programs to be in the corner from the Start Menu or Apple Menu
[03:36] <wasabi> I'd think labeling it Applications eleviates that.
[03:36] <robertj> so that inch difference makes a ..err difference
[03:37] <robertj> I still feel like it skirts the real problem of not having good scratch space
[03:38] <jdub> tseng: building now
[03:38] <robertj> that might could be fixed by gnome-panel enhancements
[03:39] <wasabi> okay, if you guys use make-kpkg.... what builds linux-restricted?
[03:40] <jdub> tseng: successful build, successful install...
[03:40] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) :)
[03:41] <jdub> successful microtesting ;)
[03:41] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) it even takes notes with style
[03:42] <robertj> I mean sure, we tell ourselves that we work methodically, every file is needed to be able to reproduce our work. In actuality we download stuff, delete 90% of it a minute later, paste things into a wordprocessor because we want our sticky notes spell-checked and uber-formatted, etc
[03:43] <robertj> am I boring yall ;)
[03:43] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) robertj: its ironic you say these things
[03:43] <jdub> tseng: has anyone sponsored you to get it into debian?
[03:43] <robertj> tseng: why?
[03:44] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: no, i was just looking at mentors.d,o today
[03:44] <jdub> STICKY WIKI
[03:44] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) robertj: because we are working on uploading a tomboy fix
[03:44] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) with.. spellchecking!
[03:44] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) the mythical scratchpad you long for
[03:44] <robertj> It's just hte principle of the thing though
[03:44] <robertj> like you have a document that you say "I want to use this for a while until I file it or delete it"
[03:45] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) http://beatniksoftware.com/tomboy/
[03:45] <robertj> sometimes its a spreadsheet, or a csv, or some code, or whatever
[03:45] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) and:
[03:45] <jdub> tseng: want me to upload?
[03:45] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) http://www.gnome.org/projects/beagle/
[03:45] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: that would be rad
[03:46] <robertj> the problem with beagle is it's not got that spatial feel
[03:46] <eruin> funny I thought I saw tomboy in synaptic the other day
[03:46] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) robertj: the current beagle ui is a poc really
[03:46] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) eruin: its in ubuntu
[03:46] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) thanks to mr. dub
[03:46] <robertj> tseng: it's not just that though
[03:46] <jdub> robertj: search folders in nautilus -> spatial.
[03:47] <robertj> jdub: the closest I've gotten is binding a special key to show/hide desktop
[03:47] <jdub> robertj: you can't apply spatiality to everything.
[03:47] <robertj> if there was a way to make it show on press down and hide on release that would be closer
[03:47] <jdub> and it doesn't make sense to do so
[03:47] <robertj> then you could drag something off the desktop into yoru document
[03:48] <robertj> I'm not a real spatial fan
[03:48] <eruin> tseng, I can't find it anywhere ;o
[03:48] <robertj> but this seems like one of the really good uses
[03:48] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) eruin: its in hoary
[03:48] <eruin> <- hoary ;)
[03:48] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) well, the source is at least
[03:48] <eruin> ah
[03:49] <robertj> it's just lots of little things that kind of make it a pain
[03:50] <robertj> like you can't show/hide desktop while dragging
[03:51] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) remind me why id want to do that?
[03:51] <robertj> tseng: you have 3 jpegs on your desktop you want to attach to an evolution document
[03:51] <robertj> err "Email message"
[03:52] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ok?
[03:52] <robertj> so you press the show desktop key, select them, start the drag, press the key again to put windows back in their position, and drop the documents on the message to attach
[03:52] <wasabi> you want to be able to alt-tab while dragging, or drag to an app on the panel widow list
[03:52] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) or id move evo to its own desktop
[03:53] <wasabi> or point to a window for 2 seconds and have it move above
[03:53] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) which wasnt full of other crap
[03:53] <robertj> I don't have another desktop, I'm happy with one
[03:53] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) maybe if you are really impassioned about this you could write up how youd prefer it to work and make an open proposal to the gnome mailing list
[03:54] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) w/o using phrases like "its a pain" and other things with negative conotation
[03:54] <robertj> yeah
[03:54] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) "it would be great if we had this" vs "it sucks that you cant do this"
[03:54] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) you get a better response.
[03:56] <jdub> tseng: :-)
[03:56] <robertj> also, does anyone know if dragging to the panel for launcher creation is on the list for 2.10?
[03:57] <robertj> it works if your dragging an executable app, but it assumes any file is an executable instead of rooting for the handler
[03:57] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) so, you want to add .mp3s to your panel?
[03:57] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) or how do you mean
[03:58] <robertj> well yeah
[03:58] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) i can drag .desktop files to it all day long
[03:58] <robertj> or more practically my 5 spreadsheets that I use all the time
[03:58] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) isnt that why we have recent files?
[03:58] <jdub> ah, smeg.
[03:58] <jdub> tseng: will have to upload again -> s/unstable/hoary/ :-)
[03:58] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) Computer - Recent Messages
[03:59] <robertj> tseng: but I just want those spreadsheets, not all the other stuff
[03:59] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) recent documents rather
[03:59] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) you want a lot of things :)
[04:00] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) you can also easily make a folder with your spreadsheets, and add it to you favorites in gtkfilechooser
[04:00] <robertj> is there a GtkFileChooser applet?
[04:00] <jdub> filechooser bookmarks will be in the places menu
[04:00] <robertj> that will help
[04:01] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) :)
[04:01] <robertj> being able to drag to and from that menu would be very intuitive though
[04:01] <robertj> although it's not really what menus are used for
[04:01] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) to me its counterintuitive
[04:01] <jdub> elmo: ping
[04:02] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) the panel is for launching applications
[04:02] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) not for launching files
[04:02] <robertj> tseng: that's not true
[04:02] <jdub> robertj: probably best to take this discussion to gnome's usability list.
[04:02] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) launching an applications w/ a file uses the drag n drop paradigm
[04:02] <robertj> there are a bajillion things that can and do live on various people's panel
[04:02] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) well thats true
[04:02] <robertj> yeah, it probably needs to get moved
[04:02] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) but not "intuitive"
[04:03] <robertj> wanna go to #gnome-usability?
[04:03] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) why not.
[04:03] <robertj> (come one come all)
[04:08] <jdub> tseng: tomboy's on its way.
[04:10] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) yay
[05:01] <Keybuk> \o/
[05:01] <sivang> hey keybuk what's the ascii art about ?
[05:02] <Keybuk> it's a yay for tomboy
[05:02] <sivang> Keybuk : got accepted into universe, right?
[05:08] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) indeed.
[05:09] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) see hoary-changes
[05:09] <sivang> tseng : was this your debian package? :)
[05:09] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ya
[05:09] <sivang> tseng : (i've been using it since I found out your repo)
[05:10] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ya its nice
[05:10] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) i found a few other things id like to do
[05:10] <sivang> tseng : It's very cool :), did it pass the regular, sid ---> hoary universe cycle?
[05:10] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) no :P
[05:12] <sivang> tseng : cooler, uploaded straight into universe?
[05:12] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ya
[06:09] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:09] <fabbione> lamont: ping?
[06:32] <fabbione> what is wrong with jackass?
[06:33] <fabbione> jdub: do you happen to know where the UploadQueue is gone?
[06:43] <drbyte> no asterix in universe!
[06:43] <eruin> can anyone point me to a package building guide?
[06:43] <jdub> eruin: debian new maintainer's guide
[06:44] <jdub> fabbione: the directory?
[06:44] <eruin> cheers
[06:44] <fabbione> yeah
[06:44] <fabbione> it's not there anymore
[06:45] <jdub> just worked for me
[06:45] <fabbione> bah it works without
[06:45] <fabbione> probably elmo chrooted even more
[06:46] <fabbione> and the Contents files aren't updated properly :(
[07:03] <Keybuk> right, time to go play with the arch people
[07:11] <fabbione> this is so cooool!
[07:11] <fabbione> i have a couple of fox'es in my garden
[07:15] <Lathiat> a fox or stray dog came and killed all 10 of my chickens last week :(
[07:15] <Lathiat> dug under the fence into the pen
[07:17] <fabbione> i don't have chickens in my garden
[07:17] <fabbione> but they keeps rats and stuff like that away
[07:43] <Lathiat> ah
[08:19] <pitti> Morning
[08:19] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: Hi! I saw my small niece yesterday (3 days old now). Babies are sooo sweet :)
[08:21] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: if you start saying that, your getting old :)
[08:21] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) morning
[08:21] <pitti> sjoerd: Morning. Really? Damn...
[08:22] <fabbione> pitti: oh yeah :-)
[08:22] <fabbione> sjoerd: ehehhehe
[08:23] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) gotta go
[08:23] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) later
[08:26] <fabbione> holy.. it's snowing like hell today
[08:26] <fabbione> and i need to go and renew my passport
[09:50] <doko> morning all!
[09:51] <fabbione> hey doko
[09:51] <pitti> Hi doko, mvo_!
[10:04] <jdub> lifeless: around?
[10:08] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: he's with mark and martin
[10:08] <jdub> thanks
[10:09] <jdub> (doesn't matter now)
[10:10] <fabbione> bob2: can you ask Mark to show up on irc when he has 2 minutes of time?
[10:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: will do
[10:10] <fabbione> thanks
[10:11] <lifeless> jdub: yo
[10:12] <jdub> 'sok
[10:12] <jdub> just had to get the keyring
[10:12] <jdub> but
[10:12] <jdub> out of interest
[10:13] <jdub> when baz fails due to lack of gpg love
[10:13] <jdub> how can you tell which key it doesn't have? :)
[10:18] <sid77> hi
[10:19] <fabbione> jdub: ximian-connector needs some love
[10:19] <fabbione> E: Package evolution has no installation candidate
[10:19] <fabbione> does evo* provides evolution somehow?
[10:20] <fabbione> ops
[10:20] <fabbione> never mind
[10:22] <jdub> :-)
[10:23] <lifeless> jdub: yah
[10:38] <fabbione> daniels: hey kid
[10:39] <Lathiat> hehe
[10:40] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) he's not a kid
[10:41] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) he beat up a family of clowns this morning
[10:41] <daniels> fabbione: sup
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: getting ready to upload xfree86 ubuntu26
[10:41] <daniels> fabbione: changes?
[10:41] <fabbione> i was waiting for you to review the changes
[10:41] <daniels> fabbione: just the restructure of the packaging?
[10:41] <daniels> 'k
[10:41] <fabbione> daniels: just a sec
[10:41] <daniels> sure
[10:42] <fabbione> xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26) hoary; urgency=low
[10:42] <fabbione>   Changes by Fabio M. Di Nitto:
[10:42] <fabbione>   * Sync debian/rules install-server target with install and make
[10:42] <fabbione>     binary-server work again.
[10:42] <fabbione>   * Start shipping only xserver-xfree86 and xserver-xfree86-dbg as a temporary
[10:42] <fabbione>     stage, while waiting for full removal.
[10:42] <fabbione>     This will give the opportunity for users to be able to revert to an "old"
[10:42] <fabbione>     and well known server if the xserver-xorg package does not work for them.
[10:42] <fabbione> + the security stuff
[10:43] <fabbione> it basically builds only xserver-xfree86{,-dbg}
[10:43] <daniels> ok
[10:44] <fabbione> goody
[10:44] <fabbione> i am gonna do a test
[10:44] <fabbione> and upload
[10:44] <fabbione> this will also solve the problem of having warty > hoary
[10:44] <fabbione> pitti: what about uploading libc6 to hoary?
[10:44] <fabbione> pitti: with the security fix and a -3 version?
[10:44] <fabbione> ;)
[10:44] <pitti> fabbione: ?
[10:45] <fabbione> it gave a big headacke
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: I thought I uploaded the fix there long ago
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: or did Debian eventually fix it too?
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: then it could be synced
[10:45] <fabbione> pitti: warty has -2.2
[10:45] <fabbione> hoary 2
[10:45] <daniels> fabbione: how will it solve the warty->hoary problem???
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: hoary has 2 problems atm
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: one is the version
[10:46] <fabbione> the other one is the cache for the Contents file
[10:46] <daniels> the ubuntu-desktop problem is the biggest, and that's solveable by an xserver-xfree86 metapackage that deps on -xorg
[10:46] <fabbione> the latter is more important
[10:46] <daniels> what?
[10:46] <fabbione> daniels: check XKBstr.h
[10:46] <fabbione> using Contents-i386.gz
[10:46] <daniels> it's listed as being in xlibs-static-dev?
[10:47] <fabbione> the file is still registered as part of xlibs-static-dev
[10:47] <fabbione> because the package is probably still cached from xfree86
[10:47] <daniels> yeah, which is solveable by killing that from xfree86
[10:47] <fabbione> this upload should "kill" the cache
[10:47] <mvo_> Kamion: synaptic as it needs some ubuntu-patches before it can be synced
[10:47] <fabbione> daniels: exactly
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: the Debian version also fixes a problem on amd64, so I would rather base hoary on this
[10:48] <fabbione> pitti: make sense
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: I don't understand this, a new glibc was uploaded on Oct 5 without fixing the security problem
[10:48] <seb128> morning
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: I sent the patch to the bug, it would have been trivial...
[10:48] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:48] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:48] <pitti> fabbione: I will sync manually
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: nothing important.. it was just to allign stuff around
[10:49] <fabbione> hey seb128 
[10:49] <fabbione> seb128: i did a bunch of uploads of gnome stuff this morning
[10:49] <seb128> hi fabbione 
[10:49] <fabbione> seb128: to fix FTBFS
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: however, it is on my todo list for some weeks now, so I won't forget about it :)
[10:49] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, I've seen that, thanks
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: cool!
[10:49] <fabbione> seb128: thanks the sparcbuildd that is catching them
[10:49] <fabbione> i am sure there are more
[10:50] <fabbione> but we will see them in the next phase
[10:50] <seb128> probably yes
[10:50] <fabbione> well i will rather fix them or bug you :P
[10:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: you can stop things from being synced by uploading an Ubuntu version
[10:51] <mvo_> Kamion: ah, I think that was the problem. thanks for pointing this out
[10:52] <daniels> fabbione: you are on crack
[10:52] <daniels> -xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26) warty-security; urgency=low
[10:52] <daniels> +xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26) hoary; urgency=low
[10:52] <daniels> w-s got 25.1, not 26
[10:52] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: you can either (a) upload something now to keep it out, (b) upload the merged version before the Debian version makes it out of incoming, (c) don't worry about it and upload the merge afterwards, since hoary users should be able to cope, (d) ask elmo if there are more available options
[10:52] <fabbione> daniels: you are on crack
[10:52] <fabbione> daniels: read carefully
[10:53] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: cache> Contents-* only gets updated once a week or so, I believe
[10:53] <fabbione> daniels: warty has 25.1
[10:53] <daniels> ...
[10:53] <fabbione> daniels: hoary will have 26
[10:53] <daniels> yes, warty-security specifically
[10:53] <daniels> yes
[10:53] <daniels> note the -
[10:53] <fabbione> so what?
[10:53] <daniels> -6ubuntu26) warty-security
[10:53] <daniels> where did you get that from?
[10:53] <fabbione> from the previous svn commit
[10:53] <fabbione> i just forgot to change the target
[10:53] <fabbione> it was never uploaded
[10:54] <daniels> heh
[10:54] <fabbione> Kamion: afaik Contents is updated each time apt-ftparchive run
[10:54] <fabbione> Kamion: at least it does it here
[10:54] <fabbione> and in any case
[10:54] <fabbione> xorg has been uploaded a while go
[10:54] <fabbione> s/go/ago
[10:56] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: no, search for Contents in the apt-ftparchive man page
[10:56] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) you're right that it seems to be older than I'd expect for some reason, though
[10:56] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) but I think you're describing the problem wrongly :)
[10:57] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. there are flags to tune it
[10:57] <daniels> iirc the dak 'daily' pulse regenerates contents
[10:57] <fabbione> i didn't know about it
[10:57] <fabbione> Kamion: but the point is that files are listed in the wrong package after a looong while :-)
[10:57] <daniels> (of course, our 'days' are half an hour ... everything moves faster in ubuntu)
[10:58] <fabbione> Kamion: and of course i agree with you.. a few hours back i had to formulate my theory :-)
[10:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) (ContentsAge is 10 days by default)
[10:58] <fabbione> Kamion: not here..
[10:58] <fabbione> and i did never change the default
[10:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if it's cheap for apt-ftparchive to regenerate the files it will do so, I believe
[10:58] <fabbione> apt-ftparchives keeps updating them each time
[10:59] <fabbione> possibly
[10:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it basically tries not to do too much work
[10:59] <fabbione> here i only have main
[10:59] <mvo_> Kamion: the last comment on #2651 looks like it might be debian-installer releated?
[11:00] <fabbione> Kamion: but even if i take the oldest xorg that hitted the archive.. it's like 14 days old
[11:00] <fabbione> so i guess elmo has done some black magic
[11:00] <fabbione> ;)
[11:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: yeah, languagechooser is responsible for that $LANGUAGE setting
[11:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: seems like intentional behaviour - AFAIK those languages are close enough that showing messages in the wrong one of them is better than showing no translation at all
[11:06] <mvo_> Kamion: so I will explain that and tag "notabug"
[11:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: I'm guessing it's falling back on a message-by-message basis when it can't find translations; complete the translations and it should go away
[11:08] <mvo_> right, I think I found a new .no translator, let's see how fast he is :)
[11:14] <daniels> bob2: i've already fixed your xkb problem, without even needing to debug it on your laptop.  how cool am I?
[11:15] <Lathiat> heh
[11:21] <daniels> fabbione: it's USN time again
[11:21] <fabbione> daniels: i hate you
[11:22] <daniels> i hate me too
[11:36] <fabbione> seb128: libpanel-applet2-dev -> libgnome-desktop-dev transition.. shouldn't the latter provide the former?
[11:36] <fabbione> or do you plan to change build-deps on all of them?
[11:37] <seb128> which transition ?
[11:37] <seb128> there is a transition ? upstream ?
[11:38] <fabbione> watch this:
[11:38] <fabbione> Building Dependency Tree...
[11:38] <fabbione> Package libpanel-applet2-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[11:38] <fabbione> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[11:38] <fabbione> is only available from another source
[11:38] <fabbione> However the following packages replace it:
[11:39] <fabbione>   libpanel-applet2-doc libgnome-desktop-dev
[11:39] <infinity> Are you sure that "Replaces" isn't just a file overwrite?
[11:39] <seb128> ii  libpanel-applet2-dev     2.9.1-0ubuntu2           Library for GNOME 2 Panel applets - Development files
[11:39] <seb128> Package: gnome-panel
[11:39] <seb128> Binary: libpanel-applet2-dev, libpanel-applet2-doc, gnome-panel-data, libpanel-applet2-0, gnome-panel, libpanel-applet2-dbg
[11:39] <seb128> dunno how you get this
[11:39] <fabbione> HMMMMM
[11:40] <fabbione> i think wanna-build is on pure crack!
[11:40] <seb128> but this part has not changed for ages
[11:41] <Mitario> hi everyone
[11:42] <fabbione> seb128: thanks
[11:43] <seb128> np
[11:49] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: you are my hero
[11:51] <daniels> bob2: i am my hero too
[11:51] <daniels> bob2: want to buy me some red bull?
[11:53] <daniels> bob2: edit /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/macintosh/us
[11:53] <daniels> bob2: after ~line 147, where it has the include statements, add 'include "srvr_ctrl(xfree86)"' after the existing two
[11:56] <daniels> bob2: then you should be able to do set xkbmap -symbols us
[11:56] <daniels> er
[11:56] <daniels> setxkbmap -symbols us
[11:59] <daniels> and hopefully it's not cached
[12:06] <gicmo_> sladen, ping?
[12:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: if your fridge isn't full anymore, ok
[12:15] <daniels> bob2: there's still a fair bit of dr pepper and some iced tea, but i've drunk all the red bull already
[12:16] <daniels> 'Ctrl-c will is appear to be Ctrl-Thaisaraae in case of th 
[12:16] <daniels> keymap.'
[12:16] <daniels> control-what?
[12:18] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) you know, the Thaisaraae key
[12:18] <fabbione> daniels, Kamion: new d-i use of framebuffer breaks Xorg autodetection
[12:18] <fabbione> daniels: the scripts enables the use of fb automatically when they find it
[12:18] <fabbione> but than it fails to find the device
[12:18] <fabbione> Kamion: btw.. hoary installed perfectly
[12:18] <fabbione> (netinstall)
[12:19] <fabbione> or netboot
[12:19] <fabbione> or net<whatever_fits_better>
[12:19] <daniels> fabbione: huh?
[12:19] <daniels> more details dude
[12:21] <fabbione> daniels: UseFBDev "true"
[12:21] <fabbione> and than it cannot find the /dev/fb* associated
[12:21] <fabbione> the first is generated by maint scripts
[12:21] <fabbione> the second is the error in the logs
[12:21] <daniels> +authenticated = authctxt->valid ? 1 : 0;
[12:22] <daniels> fabbione: grunt
[12:22] <daniels> fabbione: otoh, usefbdev false should be safe in *most* cases in xorg with benh's new patch
[12:24] <fabbione> daniels: there is not only ppc that uses fb
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: the framebuffer is not loaded after the second reboot
[12:24] <daniels> fabbione: which other platforms do we have that require fb for detection?
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: d-i -> reboot -> install -> reboot (no framebuffer)
[12:24] <daniels> iirc the only case where we really needed fb to do the setup right was r128 panels on powerpc
[12:24] <daniels> and that case should be fixed now
[12:25] <fabbione> daniels: i am pretty sure sparc does
[12:25] <daniels> UGH
[12:25] <daniels> it was so nice, only caring about three platforms that people actually used :)
[12:25] <fabbione> daniels: well.. if we can keep some level of portability 
[12:26] <fabbione> if you want to kill it you can do it for platform
[12:26] <fabbione> the code is relatively flexible
[12:26] <fabbione> there is no need to do it for world
[12:26] <fabbione> daniels: there is a simpler option
[12:26] <fabbione> daniels: like making the "UseFBDev" a real option and not a fatal
[12:31] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: if the framebuffer must be loaded after the reboot you have to do it somewhere other than d-i
[12:31] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: base-config only has any effect on the first reboot, which wouldn't be good enough
[12:32] <pitti> Hi lulu
[12:33] <lulu> pitti: hiya :o)
[12:33] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) baaaaaaaaz.
[12:34] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, i understand that. but is it FB required for base-config?
[12:34] <fabbione> Kamion: otherwise i think something should take care of making the behaviour consistent across reboots
[12:35] <Keybuk> seb128: is SMTP with TLS known-broken in evolution/hoary ?
[12:35] <seb128> yes
[12:37] <seb128> Keybuk: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3310
[12:37] <seb128> Keybuk: all sort of problems with secure connections
[12:39] <Keybuk> seb128: uh, what was that URL?  X-Chat helpfully crashed while I was un-thomming firefox so I could load it :p
[12:40] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hurry up, mr buildd
[12:40] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I want tomboy on ppc!
[12:40] <Keybuk> heh
[12:40] <Keybuk> is it not built yet?
[12:40] <Keybuk> it got uploaded some 6 hours ago
[12:41] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, I know
[12:41] <Keybuk> it's not built on i386 either
[12:41] <Keybuk> I suspect a FTBFS
[12:41] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fucking doorstop architectures!
[12:42] <fabbione> i think there is something wrong with the buildd
[12:42] <fabbione> amd64 isn't building either
[12:42] <fabbione> and the logs are on the web
[12:42] <fabbione> yeah.. it failed on i386 and ppc
[12:43] <seb128> Keybuk: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3310
[12:43] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ouch
[12:43] <fabbione> configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
[12:43] <fabbione> missing build-dep probably
[12:44] <fabbione> same as update-manager
[12:44] <fabbione> i think one build-dep killed a dependency
[12:44] <fabbione> and this is just a chain
[12:47] <cenerentola> hello ppl do you know where i can find exact dates and times of the conference
[12:48] <fabbione> cenerentola: on the wiki
[12:48] <cenerentola> well.. nice.. i came from there
[12:49] <cenerentola> do you know the exact "page"?
[12:49] <fabbione> no
[12:49] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) it has the exact dates on it
[12:49] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) that's how we all planned to be there (-ish)
[12:49] <fabbione> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Conference/
[12:49] <cenerentola> no... one day i visited a page, that explained exactly at what time it started in the morning and ended in the afternoon..
[12:50] <cenerentola> fabbione: im came from there
[12:52] <fabbione> they might have moved stuff around
[12:54] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: shouldn't be, generally
[12:55] <cenerentola> kamion: well.. effectiveness is: i can't find it
[12:55] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) cenerentola: huh?
[12:55] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) cenerentola: my comment was nothing to do with your conversation
[12:56] <cenerentola> ahh... sorry
[12:56] <cenerentola> i own you a beer
[12:56] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) are you sure such a page exists?
[12:59] <fabbione> ok daniels...
[12:59] <fabbione> Xorg is out of way
[12:59] <fabbione> we are back to xfree86
[12:59] <fabbione> xfree86 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26 
[12:59] <fabbione> with the epoch bump people will see it as normal upgrade
[01:04] <Mitario> back
[01:11] <fabbione> new version of tomboy uploaded
[01:11] <Astharot> /query pitti
[01:11] <Astharot> oops
[01:11] <pitti> Astharot: this might not have been what you want :)
[01:12] <Astharot> ciao sid ^^
[01:12] <Astharot> pitti: yes, probably :)
[01:26] <pitti> lulu: I will handle this issue with HolgerDaut@aol.com
[01:26] <bitserf> hi, i'm not sure due to differing hardware configurations, but has anything changed between hal 0.4.1-1ubuntu1 and 0.4.1-1ubuntu6 that would cause CD-ROM devices to not have volume children? 
[01:27] <bitserf> i have a work machine with 0.4.1-1ubuntu1 that still shows the volume children (children of the IDE drive device), and 0.4.1-1ubuntu6 at home doesn't. 
[01:27] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) bitserf: anything obvious in the changelog?
[01:28] <lulu> pitti: ok - many thanks -  would you mind sending me the translation anyway please.
[01:28] <pitti> lulu: uh, if you want
[01:29] <pitti> lulu: he complains about the lack of accessibility in Gnopernicus on a Gnoppix Live CD
[01:29] <pitti> lulu: it's just wrongly addressed to us
[01:29] <lulu> pitti:...offline
[01:31] <fabbione> elmo: after xfree86 in hoary (ubuntu26) will build, you can safely move it to universe
[01:32] <bitserf> bob2: i'm not entirely qualified to answer that, just starting to understand how various bits of hal work. nothing immediately obvious to me though.
[01:32] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) bitserf: /usr/share/doc/hal/changelog.Debian.gz
[01:32] <bitserf> bob2: read it :P
[01:32] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: ok
[01:32] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[01:33] <fabbione> elmo: btw.. this morning we were checking Contents file. how often are they updated on out archive?
[01:33] <fabbione> s/out/our
[01:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) not very often
[01:34] <fabbione> less than once every 10 days?
[01:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) updating the Contents file is VERY expensive so I can't posssibly update it as part of cron.daily
[01:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) the second problem is apt-ftparchive doesn't do any locking, so I can't cron it less often easily
[01:35] <fabbione> elmo: yup.. i noticed it is expensive.. 
[01:35] <fabbione> i was just wondering.. because i still see old xfree86 files in the wrong xorg packages :-)
[01:41] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: gnome-gpg in supported someday?
[01:47] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) where's a good place to put upload instructions on the wiki? do we have an equivalent to www.d.o/devel/ yet ?
[01:48] <daniels> 'el puo doble'
[01:48] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) linking to it from UbuntuProcedures would make sense?
[01:57] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) *boggle* the searching on zwiki OWNS
[01:58] <daniels> elmo: what, when it's not searching plone.org?
[02:00] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) btw, next person to upload, please try it via direct FTP
[02:02] <pitti> elmo: what does that mean, is there now a public FTP upload queue?
[02:04] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) yes
[02:08] <daniels> elmo: ftp to chinstrap?
[02:08] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) no, jackass
[02:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) and don't do an upload for the sake of it - I know what your impulse control is like :P
[02:09] <daniels> i have an xorg upload later today, but i'm doing dhclient in a bit
[02:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hah
[02:11] <daniels> elmo: ok, I just bought directftpuploadstojackass.org for two years, what now?
[02:12] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ok, someone suspend daniels' domain-buying rights
[02:12] <daniels> it was a joke
[02:13] <daniels> clearly you need more caffeine
[02:13] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I've been drinking this diet shit all day
[02:17] <daniels> bob2: exactly
[02:23] <daniels> ranlib: libxf86_os.a: No space left on device
[02:23] <daniels> make[7] : *** [libxf86_os.a]  Error 1
[02:23] <daniels> make[7] : Leaving directory `/home/daniels/canonical/xorg/arch/source/xorg-6.8.1/build-tree/xc-xserver-xorg-dbg/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support'
[02:23] <daniels> BABY JESUS!!
[02:23] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hahaha
[02:24] <sivang> this is one deep path
[02:24] <smurfix> I wonder whether keeping Contents in a database and incrementally updating with new packages would make sense. Just do a daily table dump
[02:28] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) if apt-ftparchive had a --contents-only mode, that'd be a good start
[02:29] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) then, if it could update the contents file out-of-bound (i.e. not as .Contents-$arch.new but in /tmp or something), that would totally fix it, AFAIC
[02:34] <Keybuk> seb128: so, uh, I can't seem to be able to send e-mail with TLS at "never"
[02:36] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: usb-discover upload coming up shortly
[02:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ... done
[02:41] <seb128> Keybuk: have you restarted evolution ?
[02:42] <Keybuk> seb128: it's crashed at least once since I changed the setting, does that count? :)
[02:42] <gicmo> hehe
[02:43] <gicmo> evolution mail sending is broken here
[02:45] <seb128> it works fine here with secure connection to "never"
[02:46] <seb128> and the workaround works for all the bug reporters for the moment
[02:46] <seb128> BTW the problems seems to be fixed upstream so we are waiting for a new release :)
[02:49] <Keybuk> you're allowed to patch it, you know :p
[02:50] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) mvo around?
[02:51] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) off to take the kids to school
[02:53] <mvo_> lamont: yes
[02:54] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: seemed to work
[02:54] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: cool
[02:55] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) aw, I coulda done a test upload of X.org for you
[02:56] <daniels> bob2: you're not in the keyring, foo'
[02:56] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hrm, I was
[03:01] <seb128> Keybuk: I know, but starting to include CVS changes for each bug in a devel branch is insane
[03:25] <pitti> daniels: I just replied to #2327, but did not CC you...
[03:28] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) can someone, esp. someone not already familiar with ubuntu uploads, check out Uploads on the wiki and see if it makes sense?
[03:29] <daniels> pitti: cheers
[03:29] <pitti> daniels: not easy, eh?
[03:29] <daniels> pitti: gnaaarrrrrrrrrrrr
[03:30] <pitti> daniels: I produced a similar noise when I found out all details and options about this issue
[03:30] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: you could clarify on that 'and/or' part for .changes perhaps
[03:30] <pitti> daniels: so far my best solution is to walk to the Apple factory equipped with a chainsaw
[03:30] <fabbione> re
[03:30] <pitti> daniels: and force the people to provide real AltGr keys on the iBooks...
[03:30] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, the "notification" point is a little confusing
[03:33] <fabbione> elmo: so basically now, ftp on jackass is open?
[03:33] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) yes, it's running a custom (python) ftpd
[03:33] <fabbione> ahh that's why UploadQueue disappeared all of a sudden
[03:34] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: it's a totally fake fs, you can upload into /UploadQueue still if you want, it all ends up in the same place when you logoff
[03:35] <fabbione> uh yeah.. well i did try ls and cd and it was all empty
[03:35] <fabbione> but that's ok
[03:35] <fabbione> until it works.. who cares? ;)
[03:35] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, it works enough for existing dupload/dput configs not to break, which is what I cared about
[03:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) (i.e. all our buildds ;)
[03:36] <fabbione> ehehe
[03:36] <daniels> pitti: heh
[03:37] <fabbione> elmo: xfree86 ubuntu26 is in the archive.. you can move it to universe (source included) anytime you prefer
[03:38] <fabbione> not too bad.. only 14 FTBFS on sparc at the end of phase0
[03:38] <smurfix> elmo: "use one of the pre-registered email addresses" -- registered where and when? Otherwise it makes sense.
[03:38] <fabbione> of which most of them are common to debian and ubuntu
[03:45] <fabbione> lamont: ping
[03:50] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) can anyone think of a better name than 'ftp-master' or 'archive-master'?  I need something both as an alias for jackass and an email adresss, but neither are terribly appealing
[03:50] <fabbione> god@ ?
[03:50] <fabbione> ;)
[03:51] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) meh
[03:51] <zul> zeus@
[03:51] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) Iletyouuploadpackages@
[03:51] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) cf Isignyourpaychecks
[03:51] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) archive is taken, else it'd be a good name.
[03:51] <fabbione> iamjamestroupyourftpandarchivemaster@
[03:51] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: upload ?
[03:52] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) upload.ubuntu.com, upload@ubuntu.com
[03:52] <fabbione> let-me-in
[03:52] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ooh, that's good
[03:52] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) trapdoor, as in something packages pass through.
[03:53] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) katie?
[03:53] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) or incoming, but that's used already.
[03:53] <shaya> does martin pitt hang out here?
[03:53] <pitti> shaya: that's me
[03:53] <daniels> letmeatthecrackpipe.u.c
[03:53] <fabbione> elmo: what about picking up a name from one of your gf?
[03:54] <pitti> shaya: ah, you are the guy with the funny dvd?
[03:54] <daniels> fabbione: may I suggest konnie?
[03:54] <shaya> yes
[03:54] <fabbione> daniels: i don't care.. they are elmo's gf
[03:54] <shaya> how many shaya's use ubunut :)
[03:54] <pitti> shaya: does it work with other DVDs/CDs?
[03:55] <shaya> yes
[03:55] <shaya> just updated bugzilla
[03:55] <shaya> it's the X bit
[03:55] <pitti> shaya: I tested this with some DVDs too, worked fine
[03:55] <shaya> does it make sense that dvd's that are user mounted in iso9660 or udf should have the x bit forced for their dirs?
[03:56] <shaya> i.e. doesn't make sense that a dir wouldn't be accessible
[03:56] <pitti> shaya: right
[03:56] <pitti> shaya: the mount manpage does not give any option for this, however
[03:56] <shaya> pitti: but that would be a kernel bug?
[03:56] <shaya> right, I checked
[03:57] <pitti> shaya: you could try umask=000
[03:57] <pitti> shaya: it is not officially suppored for UDF, but maybe it works
[03:57] <shaya> that's global though
[03:57] <pitti> shaya: right
[03:57] <shaya> I was thinking more of something that just affects dirs
[03:58] <shaya> dont want every file changed
[03:58] <shaya> pitti: though setting uid and gid to the the user might also work
[03:58] <pitti> shaya: well, there is little that you can do about broken permissions...
[03:58] <shaya> that would seem to be the more sane thing
[03:58] <pitti> shaya: I doubt it
[03:58] <pitti> shaya: because uid= and gid= only alter files that are owned by root
[03:59] <pitti> shaya: however, the files are owned by a nonexisting UID
[03:59] <pitti> shaya: you can try, however
[03:59] <shaya> oh
[03:59] <pitti> shaya: uid=1000,gid=1000 or so
[03:59] <shaya> all my DVDs are owned by the same nonexisting one
[03:59] <pitti> shaya: this option change in fstab would be global, too, but it makes sense for most CD-ROMs
[03:59] <shaya> i.e. Gattaca (Region 1)
[03:59] <shaya> dr-xr-xr-x  3 4294967295 4294967295   88 1998-05-12 15:38 cdrom0
[03:59] <shaya> as long as single user system :)
[03:59] <pitti> shaya: where the hell is this broken uid coming from?
[04:00] <shaya> I have no idea
[04:00] <pitti> shaya: did you burn these DVDs yourself?
[04:00] <shaya> no
[04:00] <shaya> this is commercial Gattaca Region 1 DVD
[04:00] <shaya> have about 40-50 other commercial ones I can test
[04:00] <shaya> but cant do it now
[04:00] <pitti> shaya: sorry, I'm lost with this; I do not want to patch mount/the kernel to ignore permissions on CD-ROMs
[04:01] <shaya> k
[04:01] <pitti> shaya: can you try with uid/gid?
[04:01] <pitti> shaya: in any case, there is not much I can do as a general solution; there are many people who do want the permissions on mounted devices to be respected
[04:01] <pitti> shaya: (me, for example :) )
[04:02] <fabbione> pitti: are you on ppc?
[04:02] <pitti> fabbione: not currently, but I can boot it if you want
[04:02] <shaya> pitti: I'm trying to wonder what perms mean for udf/iso9660?
[04:02] <fabbione> pitti: can you try to build redland-bindings and tell me if it fails because it can't find -lmysqlclient?
[04:02] <pitti> shaya: well, they mean exactly the same as for any other file system
[04:03] <fabbione> pitti: i think something has been changed since the upload and now it FTBFS
[04:03] <pitti> fabbione: sure. Is this ppc-specific?
[04:03] <fabbione> pitti: i think it is for all arch, but i would like to be sure
[04:03] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I can run it now if you're busy, pitti 
[04:04] <pitti> fabbione: okay, my iBook is booting. 
[04:04] <fabbione> pitti: be sure not to have libmysqlclients{,10}-dev installed
[04:04] <pitti> bob2: oh, if you want to...
[04:04] <pitti> fabbione: sure
[04:04] <fabbione> pitti: and that build-dep are satisfied
[04:04] <pitti> fabbione: usually I wipe everything away that I don't need
[04:04] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: heh, wouldn't want you to get bored ;-)
[04:04] <pitti> fabbione: and being the PostgreSQL maintainer I certainly don't need mysql :-))
[04:05] <fabbione> pitti: ehehe well.. i didn't think to have mysql stuff installed.. but i did
[04:05] <pitti> bob2: I'm at it
[04:06] <pitti> fabbione: oh, do you mean the Hoary version? My iBook is warty currently
[04:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: btw, sleep now works!
[04:06] <pitti> bob2: yay, with BehH's kernel?
[04:06] <fabbione> pitti: yes. i need hoary
[04:06] <fabbione> that package is not even in warty
[04:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: yup
[04:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I'm doing it on hoary now
[04:06] <fabbione> bob2: arch?
[04:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: ppc
[04:07] <fabbione> bob2: cool thanks
[04:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: I sent a followup to 1940 about it
[04:07] <pitti> bob2: are there readymade kernel images somewhere?
[04:07] <pitti> bob2: that would be nice
[04:07] <pitti> bob2: I don't know how to deal with this bug anyway
[04:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: no :/.  and it's only against 2.6.9
[04:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: do you know when 2.6.9 will hit hoary?
[04:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmysqlclient
[04:07] <pitti> bob2: no, sorry
[04:08] <pitti> bob2: damn, you were faster
[04:08] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: do you want a log?
[04:08] <pitti> bob2: I just managed to download the source package
[04:08] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: heh, mark's dsl rocks
[04:08] <fabbione> bob2: no thanks.. it's the same failure all over
[04:08] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) oh good god
[04:08] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: ok
[04:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) oo.o runs gimp in a virtual X session as part of the build process
[04:09] <pitti> bob2: when you are at it, can you please reassign the bug to Herbert and ask him to include the patch?
[04:09] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hahahaha
[04:09] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: sure
[04:09] <fabbione> elmo: you are the license expert.. against which of the 2 libmysqlclients library should we link?
[04:09] <pitti> bob2: thanks! One neglected bug less.. :)
[04:10] <daniels> lamont: i think i would need access to an ia64 machine to get x building on that
[04:11] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: err.. depends - what are you linking it to?
[04:11] <pitti> shaya: any success?
[04:11] <fabbione> daniels: you have the MANIFEST files... isn't that enough?
[04:11] <fabbione> elmo: redland-bindings
[04:11] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: just about all the people who followed up seemed very confused about whether it was supposed to work or not
[04:11] <shaya> pitti: cant try it
[04:11] <shaya> right now at least, need to run off to school
[04:11] <pitti> shaya: have fun
[04:11] <fabbione> 1. The GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) Version 2.1
[04:11] <pitti> shaya: btw, do you object to closing the bug?
[04:11] <fabbione> elmo: it's LGPL
[04:12] <daniels> fabbione: grep MANIFEST.ia64.in for Xorg
[04:12] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: either should be fine then
[04:12] <fabbione> elmo: so i guess i need to link with libmysqlclient10
[04:12] <daniels> oh, hold on
[04:12] <daniels> fabbione: those files are from xfree86, aren't they?
[04:12] <fabbione> daniels: wake up :-)
[04:13] <daniels> oh crap
[04:13] <fabbione> elmo: do you remember if there is any policy against which one to link? iirc there was a lot of discussion that they can't be mixed....
[04:13] <daniels> that *sucks* dude
[04:13] <fabbione> daniels: you kinda need to update the MANIFEST
[04:13] <fabbione> daniels: we did it for i386, amd64, ppc, sparc
[04:13] <daniels> 'kinda' :P
[04:13] <fabbione> daniels: i told you already.. that's why you got the new MANIFEST from lamont
[04:14] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: the problem is the newer one is/was GPL incompatible.  AFAIK upstream were trying to fix this, but kept fucking up.  I'm not sure if it ever got 100% resolved.  OTOH, LGPL is a free'n'easy license and you can happily link it with even the GPL-incompatible libmysql license
[04:14] <fabbione> elmo: ok. cool!
[04:15] <shaya> pitti: well, it's a broken DVD, unsure what the correct course is, if you want to close it I wont object
[04:15] <pitti> shaya: the problem is that we cannot fix this generally<
[04:16] <lucas_> hi
[04:17] <fabbione> ok.. let see if jackass works from remote :-)
[04:17] <shaya> pitti: it would seem perhaps udf should be smart and say "if all the directories in the root are not traversable, this is a broken DVD and we should handle it as such"
[04:18] <pitti> shaya: maybe we should rather correct broken uids to root
[04:18] <pitti> shaya: and the kernel should support uid/gid
[04:19] <pitti> shaya: I leave the bug open for now and comment it
[04:20] <shaya> pitti: the problem isn't just uid
[04:21] <shaya> for example Gattaca has messed up UID but still works perfectly, as it's dirs are r-x
[04:21] <pitti> shaya: I know, it's permissions
[04:21] <pitti> shaya: can you please play around with umask/dmask/uid/gid
[04:22] <pitti> shaya: and report back to the bug if you found something?
[04:22] <shaya> ok
[04:22] <shaya> time to run
[04:25] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) moo
[04:33] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) oh, is ubuntu-devel gated bi-directionally to ubuntuforums.org?
[04:33] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I hope not
[04:33] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) use gmane
[04:33] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) eh, *I* wont' use it
[04:35] <daniels> there's a bidirectional gate to the forums, yes
[04:35] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) ah
[04:35] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) I was just about to send away a mail, better cancel that then
[04:37] (azeem/#ubuntu-devel) poptone's messages are quite readable in the forum but totally unreadable via the list
[05:01] <daniels> fabbione: 
[05:01] <daniels> if [ "$(echo "$DISPLAY_MODES" | grep 1280x800)" ] ; then
[05:01] <daniels>   printf "\tModeline\t\"1280x800@60\" 83.91 1280 1312 1624 1656 800 816 824 841\n" >&4
[05:01] <daniels> fi
[05:01] <daniels> fabbione: (dexconf) surely that should be in #989?
[05:02] <mxpxpod> is there any chance of 2.6.9 going into hoary any time soon?
[05:03] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I hope so
[05:03] <mxpxpod> who would I email about that?
[05:04] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) about asking for it?
[05:04] <mxpxpod> that, or about certain patches to the ubuntu kernel (like the wlan-ng patch)
[05:05] <mxpxpod> because I'd like to start using 2.6.9+benh's ibook g4 sleep patch on a regular basis, but w/o the wlan-ng patches, I can't use wireless
[05:05] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hah, me too
[05:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I just sent an email to herbert about that an hour ago
[05:06] <mxpxpod> bob2: ah, cool... keep me posted
[05:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) why do you need a wlan-ng patch?
[05:06] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) or do you mean the modules?
[05:06] <mxpxpod> bob2: I mean the modules... they aren't in the vanilla kernel
[05:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) yeah
[05:07] <mxpxpod> bob2: make sense?
[05:07] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) well, yeah
[05:08] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) but it's pretty easy to build the modules from linux-wlan.org, manually
[05:08] <mxpxpod> bob2: yeah, I know... but it's easier to have them in the kernel :P
[05:08] <pitti> lamont: here?
[05:09] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: heh, true, that's the exact reason I'm not using the patch yet
[05:09] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I tried forward-porting the ubuntu kernel source to 2.6.9, but the build failed, and I was too tired to try fix it
[05:09] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: yo
[05:09] <mxpxpod> bob2: I tested -2 of the patch and it seemed to work alright... I had to enable AGPMode "4" and EnablePageFlipping "true", but that was it
[05:10] <pitti> lamont: I uploaded an fcron security update a while ago; i386 and ppc are ready for ages, but amd64 build did not arrive yet
[05:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: with x.org?
[05:10] <mxpxpod> bob2: yeah
[05:10] <pitti> lamont: is this stuck somewhere or FTBFS?
[05:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: ah, ok...
[05:10] <mxpxpod> bob2: and sometimes the panel would crash after a wakeup... not sure about that
[05:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: are those options sane to enable on ibook's all the time?
[05:10] <mxpxpod> bob2: maybe -4 will fix that
[05:10] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: -4 fixed a bug like that, yeah
[05:11] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: have you tried pmdisk/swsusp from 2.6.9 on your machine?
[05:11] <mxpxpod> bob2: I had them enabled on xfree86... they seemed fine
[05:11] <mxpxpod> bob2: yeah, I did, but they don't work with dri enable
[05:11] <mxpxpod> d
[05:11] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: even with x.org?
[05:11] <mxpxpod> bob2: didn't test with xorg
[05:11] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) (iirc it should work with dri on x.org now)
[05:11] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ah
[05:12] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hrm, what's that?
[05:12] <daniels> bob2: which options?
[05:12] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: AGPMode "4" and EnablePageFlipping "true"
[05:12] <daniels> no
[05:13] <mxpxpod> bob2: when I launch an X/GNOME app from the command line, I get a warning about my utf-8 locale
[05:13] <mxpxpod> daniels: why?
[05:13] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mxpxpod: ah
[05:13] <daniels> mxpxpod: a) dude, not everyone has agp, b) not everyone has 4x agp, c) page flipping breaks on many i386 chipsets iirc
[05:13] <daniels> your problem will likely be fixed with benh's radeon megapatch which I'm waiting on the final version of
[05:14] <mxpxpod> daniels: this is on an ibook g4 where we have 4x agp
[05:14] <mxpxpod> daniels: awesome
[05:14] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ah
[05:14] <mxpxpod> daniels: you're doing an awesome job on xorg
[05:14] <daniels> cheers
[05:14] <daniels> yeah, unfortunately we can't reliably pick amiagp4xornot
[05:15] <mxpxpod> daniels: oh, I figured out my font problem... I turned off the autohinter which made smaller fonts look really strange
[05:15] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) you should setup a website
[05:15] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) so people can vote if it's 4xagpornot
[05:15] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: grumble.  fixed.
[05:15] <pitti> lamont: thanks a lot!
[05:16] <pitti> lamont: my fault or the buildd's?
[05:16] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) not yours
[05:16] <daniels> mxpxpod: ah, rad
[05:16] <mxpxpod> daniels: is there a way to turn off the autohinter for smaller fonts?
[05:16] <pitti> lamont: hmm, it's still not on jackass
[05:16] <mxpxpod> daniels: like, 11 pt. fonts and smaller?
[05:16] <daniels> mxpxpod: i'm not sure, sorry -- fonts simultaneously scare me and hurt my head
[05:16] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: give it another 5 minutes, eh?
[05:16] <mxpxpod> daniels: haha, ok
[05:17] <pitti> lamont: okay, thanks :)
[05:17] <mxpxpod> daniels: if I figure it out, I'll let you know
[05:17] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) that's lamont-polite-speak for 'elmo fucked up the MTA config' ;)
[05:26] <lupus_> this bug can be closed: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=303 since it will be in hoary if I'm not mistaking
[05:26] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: and I didn't notice for long enough that we actually bounced a bunch of logs... :-(
[05:29] <mxpxpod> daniels: I'm also experiencing a flash of black when I click logout on the gnome-panel
[05:30] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: still arguing with a couple things...  I'll tell you when it's there
[05:30] <daniels> mxpxpod: wack
[05:31] <mxpxpod> daniels: huh?
[05:32] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: uploaded, :35 should see the accepted queue
[05:32] <daniels> mxpxpod: weird
[05:32] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) whee, nice stress test of poppy, thanks lamont :)
[05:32] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: glad to help. :-)
[05:32] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) poppy is the new upload processor?
[05:32] <mxpxpod> daniels: ah, ok
[05:32] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lupus_: done, thanks
[05:33] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: right
[05:37] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) okay, please recheck: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Uploads
[05:37] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) ?
[05:40] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) looks sane to me - I assume the .cf entries are correct...
[05:40] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) and buildd's need not change their dupload.cf, correct?
[05:40] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: yep
[05:41] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) I made sure of that :)
[05:41] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) the rest looks comprehensive
[05:43] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: possibly note in big letters that only Ubuntu devs may upload?
[05:45] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) oh mozilla, please use 100% of my cpu
[05:47] <mozilla> bob2: if you had a nice fast X40 as opposed to your slow iBook, I'd be far more forgiving
[05:47] (kylem/#ubuntu-devel) haha.
[05:47] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I hate you milkman dan.
[05:47] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) (iels)
[05:48] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) that might be cheaper than gas
[05:48] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) from NC
[05:48] (tseng/#ubuntu-devel) er, damn window again
[05:48] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) bob2: just call him, Daniel Bellamy
[05:48] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) he likes that name
[05:56] <lupus_> does hoary support chinese input methodes??
[05:57] <daniels> elmo: watch it
[05:58] <daniels> elmo: mr 'i have so much impulse control i'll shove my finger into a ring that's already been shown to be too small for most fingers'
[06:35] <ironwolf> daniels: 0000:01:01.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc. Trio 64 3D (rev 01)
[06:40] <ironwolf> daniels around?
[06:43] <daniels> ironwolf: yo dude
[06:43] <daniels> ironwolf: ah, thanks very much
[06:43] <daniels> ironwolf: that really should be supported ...
[06:44] <ironwolf> daniels: let me know how I help this fine, fine user/new convert.
[06:44] <daniels> ironwolf: 'sec
[06:45] <daniels> ironwolf: what's the output of lspci -n?
[06:46] <ironwolf> daniels: gotta wait for user to wake up.
[06:49] <daniels> ironwolf: heh, sure :)
[06:49] <smurfix> daniels: any known reports of a radeon 9600 just turning off its digital output when X starts up? (also happens with the kernel radeonfb driver) may be a hardware problem, but ENOWAYTOTEST
[06:51] <daniels> ironwolf: AH!
[06:51] <daniels> ironwolf: change 's3' to 's3v'
[06:51] <daniels> smurfix: yep, there sure is, will be fixed in the next xorg upload
[06:53] <smurfix> daniels: good to hear. Ditto the kernel driver, I assume.
[06:53] <daniels> smurfix: probably not with radeonfb
[06:55] <smurfix> hmm. Does having radeonfb loaded make sense for X, these days?
[06:59] <daniels> not really for X, but it's kind of nice if you want to use the console ;)
[06:59] <daniels> benh wrote radeonfb and he does all the detection code for the X driver, so they play very well together
[06:59] <daniels> i'm waiting on a patch from him (should come tomorrow, Australian time) to fix like every detection issue with the radeon driver ever
[07:00] <smurfix> daniels: I can use vesafb for that. Fortunately, otherwise I'd have no X at all right now.
[07:02] <daniels> ... why no X at all?
[07:06] <smurfix> daniels: because I can use either vesafb or the radeon driver... and since the latter doesn'twork at the moment, I'm reasonably happy with the former, even though that means I can't watch DVDs. Does wonders for my productivity, though, or at least it would if I could use both hands.
[07:09] <daniels> 'either vesafb or the radeon driver'
[07:09] <daniels> do you mean radeonfb?  or the vesa driver in X?
[07:14] <smurfix> daniels: sorry for being unclear -- I meant "vesafb+framebuffer". Didn't try X's vesa support, as I don't see the point of doing that.
[07:38] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: wtf is Fo'shizzle
[07:40] (bob2/#ubuntu-devel) haha
[07:40] <daniels> sjoerd: 'certainly'
[07:40] (sjoerd/#ubuntu-devel) thanks :)
[07:50] <ironwolf> daniels: s3v X didn't start.
[07:50] <daniels> ironwolf: bugger.  what was the error?
[07:52] <ironwolf> daniels: no screens found
[08:00] <ironwolf> daniels: where should I send the Xorg.0.log?
[08:09] <daniels> ironwolf: to daniel@fooishbar.org, please
[08:13] <ironwolf> daniels: sent.
[09:00] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) good morning, Ubuntuans
[09:00] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) morning mdz
[09:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hey mdz
[09:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, typing while wearing a gi is fiddly
[09:00] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) trying to remember how to use this "keyboard" thing
[09:01] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the sleeves keep getting in the way of the keyboard
[09:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: back already?
[09:02] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) on schedule
[09:02] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) heard from thom recently?  he's supposedly in town
[09:02] <wasabi> Is NFSv4 going to be included in Ubuntu at any point?
[09:02] <mvo_> hi mdz
[09:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: is it slated for inclusion in the upstream kernel?
[09:03] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: it already is
[09:03] <wasabi> It's in 2.6.
[09:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) aha, even better
[09:03] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) CONFIG_NFSD_V4=y
[09:03] <wasabi> mdz: it seems to require user mode utilities
[09:03] <wasabi> which are not present
[09:03] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) I see
[09:03] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) new tools, or just a new mount?
[09:03] <wasabi> I'm not sure.
[09:03] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) s/mount/version of &/
[09:03] <wasabi> jhaltom@station-1 jhaltom $ sudo mount /export/bin/
[09:03] <wasabi> NFSv4 not supported!
[09:03] <wasabi> NFSv4 not supported!
[09:03] <wasabi> Tht's all I can tell you. ;)
[09:04] <wasabi> But it's in both kernels at both ends.
[09:04] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: if you find out what's required, drop a note to ubuntu-devel
[09:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/nfsv4/patches-2.5/patch-util-linux-2.11t-A
[09:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) that may be an older version
[09:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the optimal solution is to have the requisite patches merged into util-linux upstream so that everyone gets them, though
[09:05] <wasabi> yeah of course
[09:05] <wasabi> I'd really like to start using the GSSAPI support.
[09:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) RH seem to have an NFSv4 patch to util-linux, or so Google suggests
[09:06] <wasabi> buh latest hoary upgrade just friend my gnome-panel xinerama detection. it's now spanning all 3 monitors.
[09:07] <wasabi> s/friend/fried/
[09:08] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: does util-linux still have an upstream?
[09:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: he's looking for an adopter I believe
[09:15] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) it's an annoying, griefsome package.
[09:16] <smurfix> looks like a chunk of work for somebody who needs some more stuff on their plate to feel happy
[09:16] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) then again, part of that has been due to the size of the diff... being (part of) upstream might make that less painful
[09:16] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) or rather, painful in different ways...
[09:17] <smurfix> I passed that point some time ago :-/
[09:21] <wasabi> Anybody know much about nscd? Trying to get it to cache the entire passwd table.
[09:24] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: are the -pic packages still used?
[09:25] <wasabi> grrr.
[09:31] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: you around?
[09:33] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) GAH! gthktml3 has a md5mismatch on orig.tar.gz as well???
[09:34] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) wasabi: what I know about nscd is that it is buggy, which is why we don't use it
[09:34] <wasabi>  I have to
[09:34] <wasabi> LDAP based users.
[09:34] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: mismatch between what and what?
[09:35] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: are you back at home now?
[09:35] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: most of those are because we uploaded a diff orig.tar.gz to warty than debian got.
[09:35] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) yes, home
[09:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) I should probably just make the sync break when that happens
[09:36] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: pretty please?
[09:37] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: and this is how you wind up with xx_2.8.0ubuntu-1ubuntu1
[09:41] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) doko??
[09:45] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) lamont, seb128: how did we end up with a different .orig?
[09:45] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) I thought gnome released official .tar.gzs
[09:46] <seb128_> for which package ?
[09:46] <seb128_> elmo: gconf-editor sync please 
[09:47] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: devel/gal2.2_2.2.3ubuntu1-1ubuntu1: Installed [optional:uncompiled] 
[09:47] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) that's the only one I've fixed todate
[09:48] <seb128_> perhaps Kitame did some changes ...
[09:48] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) gtkhtml3 has an md5sum mismatch
[09:48] <seb128_> I don't know how Kitame works
[09:48] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) as does python-gtk2
[09:49] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: done
[09:49] <seb128_> elmo: thanks
[09:49] <seb128_> lamont: I don't understand for python-gtk2. 2 tar of the same dirs made a differents moment have the same md5 ?
[09:51] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: gziped files have a timestamp
[09:51] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) IIRC
[09:52] <doko> lamont: here
[09:52] <seb128> that's probably it, I don't know why but some debian packages have source package name different of the upstream one, the tarball is remade
[09:52] <seb128> elmo: libbonoboui sync too please :)
[09:53] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) doko: need an upload of gcc-3.4 that turns off the ada tests for ia64 (or otherwise works..)
[09:54] <doko> lamont: could you check out the one from unstable, if that works for you?
[09:54] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) doko: if you want to tell me what to change, I can verify that it works before uploading...
[09:54] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) sure
[09:57] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: are your apt changes in arch where I can merge them easily?
[09:57] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: once gcc-3.4 is in, and my debootstrap upload is done, you can debootstrap hoary
[09:57] <mvo_> mdz: not yet, sorry for that. I can do this tomorrow morning
[09:59] <mvo_> mdz: I assume you didn't had a chance to look over the packages.gz (pdiff) patch  I send to the debian-deity list?
[09:59] <mvo_> yet
[10:01] <doko> lamont: are you going to apply the libunwind patches in binutils/glibc and gcc-3.[34]  ?
[10:02] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) doko?
[10:03] <doko> lamont: http://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/2004/10/msg00029.html
[10:04] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) which is to say that we want debzilla to sync 278835-278837
[10:05] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) any reason _not_ to bring my laptop to current-hoary?
[10:06] <wasabi> nfs-common should be included by default.
[10:06] <wasabi> It isn't apparently.
[10:08] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: that mailbox is very low on the priority list, and I have much mail to read :-)
[10:08] <ironwolf> lamont: good luck. no reason I can see. :)
[10:08] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: please send me a patch or a changeset reference so that I can get the bzip2 fixes into mainline
[10:09] (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) ironwolf: heh
[10:16] <ironwolf> With liveCD can ping router/gateway, with installed system, can't ping router/gateway.  Where do I look to make this work?
[10:26] <qopi> hello peeps
[10:26] <qopi> i've got a really wierd bug
[10:27] <qopi> since an X appears in the middle of my screen every time i start up
[10:29] (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) qopi: hardware cursor.  Add the X option   SWcursor on
[10:30] (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) the very simple way around this bug would be to set the default cursor to be 100% transparent
[10:30] <qopi> sladen: how/wherer would I do that?
[10:31] (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) qopi: /etc/XF86Config.conf
[10:33] <narcisiss> fast question, does it exist a way to install the livecd to the hd?
[10:35] <Matt|> hello all
[10:35] <Matt|> massive problem has been caused by the last hoary updates. Any one else have it?
[10:36] <ironwolf> narcisiss: no :(
[10:36] <ironwolf> matt|: which problem?
[10:36] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: what's the solution to parted's brain damage on powerpc?  use something else?
[10:36] <qopi> ironwolf: i've got another wierd bug too: my computer makes strange sounds as it starts up
[10:36] <Matt|> ironwolf, not sure the cause. I cannot open the attach file dialogue on evolution or gaim, and I cannot open the change desktop background dialogue. In all cases they all crash
[10:37] <ironwolf> Matt|: weird... I'm not seeing it.
[10:37] <Matt|> i'm thinking that perhaps I can't open any dialogues
[10:37] <ironwolf> qopi: that's probably intentionally :) darn african drums
[10:38] <narcisiss> rotl
[10:38] <narcisiss> rotfl =)
[10:38] <Matt|> ok the OOo open file dialogue works.
[10:40] <Matt|> i get this error when trying to do these things in the terminal
[10:40] <Matt|> (gaim:4973): Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib
[10:40] <Matt|> (gaim:4973): Gdk-WARNING **: cannot set locale modifiers
[10:40] <Matt|> i'll try and reconfigure
[10:41] <Matt|> have fun
[10:41] (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) narcisiss: IIRC the warty LiveCD is based on Mophix which is based on Knoppix.  the Knoppix way is .../.../hd-install or somesuch
[10:42] <Matt|> ironwolf, any ideas about that error?
[10:42] <qopi> ironwolf: i see. guess my soundcard isn't properly installed or my speakers are fuxored
[10:42] (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) narcisiss: it would be better to use the Proper Ubuntu installer which has lots of autodetection foo
[10:42] <ironwolf> Matt|: no clue sorry.
[10:42] <Matt|> damn
[10:42] <Matt|> shall i file it?
[10:42] <ironwolf> yup :(
[10:42] <Matt|> K
[10:43] <Matt|> np those X11 guys are great at replying to bugs :)
[10:43] <narcisiss> sladen: the problem is this one: with the livecd i can use the net, with the installed version i cannot
[10:43] <ironwolf> Matt|: daniels is great.. I agree.
[10:43] <qopi> narcisiss: knx-hdinstall or knx-installer
[10:44] <Matt|> ironwolf, they are both great :)
[10:44] <ironwolf> Matt|: both? Fabbione doesn't do X anymore I thought. correct me if I'm wrong.
[10:45] <Matt|>   	 fabbione@canonical.com   	
[10:45] <Matt|> xlibs
[10:46] <Matt|> is that a good package to file it under?
[10:46] <Matt|> i really have no clue
[10:46] <narcisiss> brb
[10:46] <ironwolf> no clue matt
[10:50] <Matt|> ironwolf, thanks for ya help anyhow
[11:00] <mxpxpod> how can I get the cramfs patch for vanilla kernels?
[11:03] <Matt|> google?
[11:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: -pic> you mean debian-installer's build-deps?
[11:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: Sven's got some idea for how to fix it I think, we'll probably get it in hoary
[11:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) ok
[11:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: if you want something now you could fart about with mac-fdisk and pray
[11:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) and nm, about the parted question
[11:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: just using mdadm to create the array seems happy enough
[11:09] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) I dunno if it'll auto-start though
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: the -pic packages are something to do with extreme mklibs weird shit; I had great fun with that while trying to build gtk d-i
[11:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: what partition type are you using?
[11:11] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) 4        954.660  78533.437              untitled              
[11:11] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) kamion: err, how do you mean?
[11:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) uh
[11:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) what's printing that?
[11:11] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) parted
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oh, parted's annoying for that, try mac-fdisk
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) second column
[11:12] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) what crack is pmac-fdisk btw?  it REALLY doesn't like the Xserve
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) mac partition types are textual (!)
[11:12] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) /dev/sda4         Apple_UNIX_SVR2 untitled           158881336 @ 1955144   ( 75.8G)  Linux native
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) don't use pmac-fdisk, it's for IBM powerpc systems
[11:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the names are fucked up but that's the gist of it
[11:12] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) meh, the short description REALLY needs to say that
[11:13] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) in fact _any_ part of the description
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) bleh, I thought djpig and I had fixed that between us
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) evidently not
[11:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) "the PC partition format" is about as clear as it gets
[11:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ok, so Apple_UNIX_SVR2 is just the same as every other Unix partition on a mac disklabel, fair enough
[11:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: ?
[11:19] <Matt|> he's gone to the movies
[11:24] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: is the sungem causing an oops a discover+hotplug bug and/or a kernel one?
[11:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: it must be a kernel bug; could be discover/hotplug in addition but seems less likely
[11:26] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) well I more mean discover/hotplug for trying to load it when it's not needed
[11:30] <Mitario> lo everyone
[11:34] <narcisiss> after i type "ifconfig eth0 up" i receive this message from the kernel:
[11:34] <narcisiss> Message from syslogd@localhost at Mon Nov 22 23:23:40 2004 ...
[11:34] <narcisiss> localhost kernel: Disabling IRQ #233
[11:35] <narcisiss> where 233 is the irq of the eth card
[11:35] <narcisiss> so i cannot use the net
[11:35] <narcisiss> how can i change that irq?
[11:44] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) openoffice.org gcc-3.3 mozilla-firefox gnumeric xfree86 tla
[11:44] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) anyone got any suggestions for additions to the above to en-mass populate a chroot with a useful set of build-depends ?
[11:56] <_rene_> kde* gnome*?
[11:56] <_rene_> ;)