seb128elmo: nautilus-cd-burner sync please12:03
herziseb128: i work on a gaim-devel now12:11
seb128have you contacted the debian maintainers ?12:11
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herzinot yet12:12
herzii want to have a patch ready that works on my box12:12
herzithen i will contact them12:12
seb128you should have started by this12:12
seb128I think they have perhaps the change ready12:13
seb128they were waiting for the debian freeze for this change apparently12:13
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sabdflnight all12:23
sivangnight sabdfl12:25
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(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) elmo?12:51
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=== lamont bbiab - meeting for a while
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) lamont: can you try kicking off another set of builds of debian-installer 20041118ubuntu2? I fixed the hw-detect bug that broke it just after uploading it04:02
elmoKamion: done05:35
elmonight all05:35
fabbionemorning guys06:39
fabbionehey mdz06:43
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: will do06:45
fabbioneKamion: are you still around?06:49
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) ENOKEYBUK06:52
fabbionemdz: 3745... not yet :P06:57
=== lamont is reminded of just how much he ^&*&*^) HATES perl
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) no daniels either. hrm.07:29
fabbionelamont: something about X?07:29
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) just gonna pester him about xorg upload with ia64 support.. :)07:31
fabbionelamont: it's pending upload07:31
fabbionei will kick him today07:31
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) There are 37 (or so) main packages remaining to be built, most of which are either d-w xorg, or blocked by gcc-3.407:32
fabbionelamont: yeah.. i know..07:32
fabbionei will talk to him to do an upload today07:32
fabbioneor max tomorrow07:33
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) np - I was just quoting my activity report.. :)07:33
mdzgood night, all07:35
fabbionenight mdz!07:37
dokomorning all.07:49
dokolamont: please let's sort out the libunwind problems for ia64 first, before doing the gcc upload07:49
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) doko: it won't build until something happens...07:51
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) cc'ed you on the mail to t-bone telling him what he could work on.07:51
=== lamont is trying really hard to not be working on ia64, esp during work hours - other stuff is ahead of it on my tasklist
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) that is, I'm trying to let t-bone do all the real work.07:52
dokolamont: ok07:56
=== lamont decides to go to sleep - more merges and bugfixes looming in the morning.
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) night all07:57
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fabbionenight lamont08:04
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jdubKeybuk, mdz: http://lwn.net/Articles/111859/09:28
Keybukjdub: cute ... though udevd looks more "interesting"09:30
Keybukas it actually deals with the various races hotplug can introduce09:30
Keybuk(remove beating add, for example)09:31
jdubyeah, where can i find out more about it?09:31
Keybuklkml, lwn, etc.09:31
jdubmust of missed it in lwn09:31
Keybukis part of the udev package these days09:32
Keybukit's even in hoary09:32
Keybuksyndicate scott% whatis udevd09:32
Keybukudevd (8)            - udev event serializer daemon and udev event sender09:32
Keybukyou basically use udevsend instead of hotplug, and udevd does the work in the right order09:33
smurfixhttp://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/; kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/09:34
=== jdub reads man page, is pleased
jdubmaybe hotplug-ng is gregkh's attempt to fix the hotplug problems though09:35
Keybukjdub: reading his code, it isn't even trying09:35
Keybukhe's basically just written run-parts09:35
jdubhrm, udevd is not mentioned even as far back as october 28th09:36
KeybukI don't what the ideal final solution is yet09:36
Keybukudevd seems to be the fore-runner, with hotplug-ng C scripts replacing the existing shell hotplug agents09:37
Keybuk(you still need all the stuff to do module and firmware loading)09:37
fabbionehey Keybuk 09:37
fabbioneis daniels around there?09:37
Keybukfabbione: he was still in bed09:37
jdubKeybuk: so /sbin/hotplug calls udevsend?09:38
fabbioneKeybuk: ok09:38
Keybukjdub: no, you set the kernel to call udevsend instead of /sbin/hotplug09:38
Keybukudevsend informs udevd of the new event09:38
Keybukand udevd makes sure /sys is populated, creates the device node and runs the /etc/hotplug* scripts for it09:39
jdubhrm, positive review of mepis from ladislav in lwn09:39
jdubKeybuk: ahh09:39
Keybukudevd also makes sure the events actually happen in the right order09:40
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pittiKeybuk: btw, /sys/ is automatically populated by the kernel; you mean populating /dev/?09:41
pittiHi sivang!09:41
Keybukpitti: no, udevd *makes sure* /sys is populated09:41
Keybukwhen the kernel fires the hotplug event, it usually hasn't actually got around to populating /sys yet09:42
pittiKeybuk: ah, you mean it waits for the sysfs entries?09:42
Keybukso the hotplug event runs, and has to sit and sleep until the right /sys path shows up09:42
pittiKeybuk: this is a nice feature; so far we have too many races because of still missing /sys entries09:42
=== jdub wonders if simplymepis have permission to ship all the plugin and media foo
Keybukthere's also the "add event takes longer than the remove event" issue09:42
Keybukwhere you plug a device and unplug it quickly09:43
Keybukand the add event is still finishing after the remove event has been fired and finished09:43
jdubKeybuk: could udevd use inotify on /sys? :)09:43
Keybukjdub: dunno whether inotify works on /sys -- possibl09:43
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=== sid77 ciao
=== mojo [~mojo@220-244-212-78-vic.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mojohi all devel09:55
mojoI found prob of RealPlayer that make it not run on Hoary09:55
mojoif remove the swfformat.so and swfformat.so in plugins folder09:56
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mojoand that will fix it09:56
mojojust move the swfformat.so and swfformat.so in plugins folder in RealPlayer folder09:56
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) you should add that to the wiki09:56
mojoit's still a bug09:56
mojoI'm wondering y swf has prob with Debian09:57
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) you mean helixplayer, right?09:57
fabbionehey daniels 09:57
fabbionedaniels: when do you plan to upload the next X?09:57
mojois there any relation of swfrender and swfformat in Debian and Ubuntu?09:57
fabbionedaniels: since you have planned some major changes it is a good idea to start now09:57
mojoI say remove not move09:58
mojojust remove 2 files09:58
fabbionedaniels: early breakage will give you more time to fix stuff around09:58
fabbionedaniels: and ia64 buildds are waiting for you :-)09:58
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mojo: where can one get the source for realplayer?09:58
mojoget the latest src09:59
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) erm. that's helixplayer.09:59
mojoand can u please check the swf plugins09:59
mojothere's RealPlayer there09:59
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ok. I'm at work atm, sorry, might have a look later.10:00
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) someone has ITP'd it for debian, tho, you might want to talk to them10:00
mojoit's just acutally Helix Player that is on respo10:00
mojoI can't find any RealPLayer there10:00
danielsfabbione: today10:00
danielslamont: ping10:00
mojoif u know any Debianized package of RealPlayer, please give me the URL10:01
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) mojo: google: "helixplayer itp"10:01
mojowhat is itp?10:01
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) intent to package10:01
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pittiHi silbs, hi mvo_!10:08
mvo_hi pitti 10:08
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mvo_hi silbs 10:08
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mojobob2: it10:20
mojoseems to me that's a bug of RealPlayer10:21
mojobob2: and helix-player itp doesn't get involve in Realplayer so they won't give me a hand10:21
jdubOur plan is to produce a usable version of beagle that can be shipped10:22
jdubas part of SUSE 9.3.  This almost exactly corresponds to the timeline10:22
jdubfor GNOME 2.10.  We call this goal "Milestone One," and the tasks10:22
jdubrequired to reach that goal are labeled as such in10:22
jdubKeybuk: ^10:22
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, robert love went and assigned a bunch of novell people tasks10:22
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) including "make it not crash all the bloody time"10:22
Keybukjdub: cool, so you think we can sneak that into hoary too? 10:24
jdubKeybuk: perhaps we should seriously consider it :)10:25
jdubnot a lot of dependencies we don't have10:25
jdubkernel will be sorted10:25
jdubi'm sure we can inspire a new d-bus release10:25
Keybukjdub: yeah, I think it sounds like a goal to me10:26
jdubno gsf cil stuff10:26
jdubhrm, no evolution sharp10:26
Keybukno evo# where?10:27
Keybukah, is it in Debian?10:28
Keybukthat's going to be a tomboy dep too, isn't it?10:28
jdubdoubt it10:29
seb128jdub: is there any plan to upload polypaudio in Debian one day ?10:30
jdubseb128: was planning to upload 0.7, but there are problems with it.10:31
jdubseb128: so working those out with lennart, then it'll go straight into debian and hoary.10:32
jdubseb128: want to sponsor it? :)10:32
seb128what kind of problem ?10:32
jdubb0rked autofoo10:33
=== jdub is not fully sold on it for hoary either, yet
seb128jdub: for the sponsoring if you want, but I thought it was better to find a non-canonical people ?10:34
jdubseb128: i think that's *very* important for becoming a DD, but less important for sponsoring.10:35
jdubseb128: i wanted to do it, but it can be harder. :)10:36
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azeemjdub: I can still sponsor polypaudio for you if you want, btw10:55
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fabbioneseb128: thanks for fixing gdm, is that enough for the other gnome-suite as well?11:10
fabbioneseb128: i have the problem with panels too11:10
seb128no panel problem is a libwnck bug, I'm fixing it for Debian right now it should be fixed in hoary as soon as libwnck is synced after that11:11
fabbionecool thanks!11:11
seb128s/no panel/no, the panel/11:11
fabbioneseb128: did i ever tell you that you rock?11:11
seb128thanks :)11:11
seb128(you rock too ;)11:11
=== fabbione gets red in his face
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seb128hey rburton 11:16
rburtonhi seb128 11:16
fabbioneif you think that compiling X is slow.. build the kernel11:25
jdub$ gpg --list-keys jdub11:29
jdubgpg: WARNING: using insecure memory!11:29
jdub^ should that happen with our gpg?11:29
azeemit happens if gnupg is not suid, I think11:30
jdubbut we have user mlock11:30
fabbioneazeem: iirc out gpg is patched for that11:30
jdubhrm, maybe mjg59's kernel doesn't do that11:30
azeembut gnupg drops the priviledges as soon as it got hold of secure memory anyway11:31
=== robtaylor|away is now known as robtaylor
fabbioneand there we go... my laptop has been ubuntified too11:38
jdubi love reading people getting angry about "all this attention on a new distribution, that ubuntu thing"11:38
=== jdub goes for dinner
sivangjdub : well, eat their (red) hats out :) 11:39
fabbionedaniels: did you upload all the xorg goodies in the archive? like composite manager?11:42
danielsfabbione: NEW11:42
pittiHey, I just got my Warty CD shipment11:44
pittiThey really look nice11:44
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) woo11:44
fabbionei still didn't.. but hounestly.. i can't wait :P11:47
=== sivang is still awaiting his..
sivangshipment cds11:48
pittithey came too late for the Linux fair here11:48
pittibut still there are enough linux freaks in our University :-)11:48
=== pitti fondly drapes a cd for each platform on his computer desk
seb128elmo: libwnck sync please11:52
danielsKamion: ping12:12
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elmoseb128: done12:18
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) morning12:20
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fabbionemorning elmo, thom12:20
fabbioneelmo: do you have any objections to start looking at sparc.u.c ?12:21
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fabbioneelmo: i have started building the "golden debs"12:22
fabbioneand theoretically i can also upload them12:22
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: crack! I want my craaaaack.12:22
fabbioneMithrandir: soon :-)12:22
fabbioneMithrandir: it will take another week or so to finish12:22
fabbione+ still missing the kernel stuff12:22
=== jdub will run it on his 220R :)
fabbioneand in order to get everything in the proper place we will need to do a bit more stuff after that12:23
fabiandhey, someone experienced problems with vconfig and/or the 8021q module?12:23
fabbionejdub: after you get main, start building universe you lazy guy :P12:23
seb128elmo: thanks12:24
seb128hey thom 12:24
danielsfabbione: how well set up is linux-restricted-modules to deal with multiple nvidia versions?12:25
fabbionedaniels: no idea.. i did only the first packaging.. 12:26
danielsfabbione: i386/amd64 are 6629, while ia64 is 533612:26
fabbionedaniels: but i guess pretty well12:26
fabbionedaniels: 6629 is buggy12:26
fabbioneyou need to patch it12:27
fabbioneor wait for the next release (better12:27
danielshow's it buggy?12:27
lupus_I know ubuntu does not support sun jvm but a lot of users are using it12:28
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: l-r-m handles it ok-ish.12:31
fabbionedaniels: something about agp12:31
lupus_A flaw in Sun Microsystems' plug-in for running Java on a variety of browsers and operating systems could allow a virus to spread through Microsoft Windows and Linux PCs.12:31
=== fabbione doesn't use java
lupus_should ubuntu warn it's users for this or not?12:31
=== RubenV votes yes!
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: pong12:34
danielsKamion: can you please chat to sideshow for a sec about powerpc stuff?12:37
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danielsfabbione: hooray for nvidia :P12:37
danielsKamion: he's having severe troubles booting his iBook -- both (ours) and his self-compiled 2.6.9 refuse to find his root device?12:38
fabbionedaniels: did i ever claim that they are cool?12:41
danielsfabbione: you seem to like them12:41
fabbioneKamion: nice work with that ddetect thingy :-)12:42
fabbionedaniels: gimme multihead without and i will get rid of them NOW12:42
danielsfabbione: ati :)12:42
fabbionedaniels: than gimme the money to change gfx12:42
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: filesystem?12:43
fabbioneKamion: this morning i discussed with mdz about creating udebs from linux-source and he convinced me to take the goal for hoary :-)12:43
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: sounds like an initrd problem anyway; I don't know the answer to his problem offhand, but I'd boot with init=/bin/sh and step through it by hand12:43
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: cool12:43
fabbioneKamion: he also told me that you already have some ideas on how to do it12:43
fabbioneKamion: should we take a look to it later today?12:43
fabbione(i am still building the ccache for the kernel source..)12:44
fabbioneand i would like to get some lunch before12:44
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ideas> I do?12:45
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's mostly a linux-source-* build system job, and I don't know it well at all12:45
danielsKamion: ext3, presumably12:46
fabbioneKamion: well ok.. but the i think mdz was talking about a way to simply the management of the module lists for the udebs (or something like that)12:46
danielsKamion: the kernel won't find the root FS (i.e. i have no root and i must scream)12:46
danielsKamion: while specifying root=, initrd= by hand also12:47
fabbioneErr http://people.ubuntulinux.org ./ xcompmgr 1.1.1+cvs.20041109-0ubuntu112:47
fabbione  404 Not Found12:47
fabbionedaniels: mind to fix you Packages file?12:47
danielsfabbione: fix your head :P12:47
danielsfabbione: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/ xcompmgr/12:47
danielsfabbione: alternately, they just got ACCEPTED about half an hour ago ...12:48
danielsfabbione: i have fdclock/ also, and a broken transset/12:48
fabbionedaniels: ok...12:48
danielsbut working versions of all of the above should be in hoary12:48
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: boot from CD and poke around to see if the initrd's sane?12:49
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: we have to keep with approximately the layout of linux-kernel-di-*, otherwise merging becomes totally impossible12:49
fabbioneKamion: sure, make sense12:50
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: we should resist attempts to "simplify" it; besides which kernel-wedge is really clever and does a lot of things we want, like converting kernel module dependencies into package dependencies12:50
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i was checking kernel-wedge..12:50
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) let me dig up Herbert's e-mail from when we last discussed12:51
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) this12:51
fabbioneKamion: the "hardest" thing to do is to integrate 12:51
fabbione#!/usr/bin/make -f12:51
fabbioneinclude /usr/share/kernel-wedge/generic-rules12:51
fabbionedebian/rules (END) 12:51
fabbionethis ^12:51
fabbioneinto debian/rules for the kernel12:51
fabbioneKamion: sure.. please fwd them to me12:52
fabbionei really need to cook some lunch12:53
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: there's apparently some complication with depmod12:53
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: remember that you need a modules.dep for this to work12:53
fabbioneKamion: yup.. i read that in one of the notes12:54
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo,lamont: build logs on yellow are still in super-noisy mode due to the locale the buildd is using not being configured in the chroot12:55
elmo(it was king last time)12:57
elmoI either have an old amd64 install cd, or this is broken in warty final12:57
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) it's the chroot12:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) just running debootstrap won't generate locales12:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) so LANG=<anything but C> will cause this, and we do generally set LANG!=C12:58
elmoyou sure it's not /etc/environment in the base ?12:58
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elmo'cos that's all I did on king.. ;)12:59
elmowhat I mean is, both king and yellow had an /etc/environmment after a freash warty install12:59
elmo(an empty one)12:59
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) you've got an old install CD01:00
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I fixed that in base-config 2.44ubuntu25 on 9 October, before final01:01
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) however, it should be mostly harmless01:01
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: you need to *generate* the locale as well as just setting it; all /etc/environment does is the latter01:02
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' generates them; prebaseconfig does the equivalent of that in d-i01:03
elmono, I just want to wipe it out01:03
elmoso we're using C01:03
elmowe don't have locales installed on most of our machines01:03
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ah; the installer won't do that for you01:04
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) changing it in /etc/environment should certainly do for just wiping out the locale, yeah01:05
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ok, sorry if I was teaching granny to suck eggs, no idea how much you ignore locales in general :-)01:05
danielsKamion: do you have a working dhcpd/tftpboot setup for ibooks?01:13
elmouh - hasn't he got a CD?01:14
danielsmatter of fact, he has, actually01:15
elmoI was going to say, if he doesn't, there's a bazillion lieing around the flat01:16
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: yeah, somewhere01:17
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) down to 2500 unread messages *sigh*01:17
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: booting from CD probably way less hassle though01:17
danielsKamion: jane/lulu had a couple of powerpc cds, as it turned out01:19
danielsthom: how many of them were 'where's firefox 1.0'?01:19
danielselmo: 'bazillion', 'two', close enough01:19
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: so, do you make it general consensus that we should at least drop mozilla-browser from the CD?01:32
pittiKamion: yes01:32
jdubKamion: *kill!*01:33
pittiKamion: but there still seem to be too many users/usages for it01:33
pittiKamion: so I would at least leave it in main01:33
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) so move to supported?01:33
pittiKamion: the remaining question is what to do with the locale packages?01:33
pittiKamion: currently they are in universe01:33
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: thanks for your help dude01:33
pittiKamion: if we propagate them to main, our future language packs should include them01:34
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) not actually sure what fucked up, but rerunning ybin worked01:34
pittiKamion: which is kind of a waste01:34
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: dunno; I'm not wearing the mdz hat any more ;)01:34
danielsKamion: that's a pretty big hat01:34
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) bob2: ah, ok, cool01:34
=== daniels has flashbacks to _Weekend at Bernie's_.
pittiKamion: we have this problem regardless of whether moz is in shipped or supported01:35
pittiKamion: so I don't think it's a problem to move it to supported01:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) indeed ...01:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: from your comment above can I assume you approve? :)01:35
jdubhell yeah01:36
fabbioneKamion: i will test the new cd tomorrow :-)01:38
fabbioneKamion: no problem about it ;)01:38
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fabbioneKamion: do you mind to check if the current kernel-di-i386 builds properly?02:14
fabbioneI am getting an error here and i would like to know if it is just local02:14
fabbioneor something more than that02:14
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: sure, let me just make a hoary-i386 chroot02:14
fabbioneKamion: thanks02:14
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: what's the error?02:14
fabbionedebian/ppp-modules- lib/modules/
fabbionedebian/nic-shared-modules- lib/modules/
fabbionesome modules are in more than one package02:14
fabbionecommand exited with status 25502:14
fabbionemake: *** [binary-arch]  Error 202:14
fabbioneKamion: i think the integration is much easier than we think02:15
fabbioneKamion: kernel-wedge is well designed02:15
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: that usually means that crc-ccitt needs to be added to a common package, but I thought I fixed that particular one ages ago; I'll have a look02:15
fabbioneKamion: probably a left over from the recent merges?02:16
fabbioneanyway.. i "just" need a working kernel-di-i386 that i can use to verify my changes02:17
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: shouldn't think so, it built last time02:17
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I'm looking, ok :)02:17
fabbioneno rush02:17
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: what version are you using? the changelog says I fixed this in 0.64ubuntu602:18
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) and of the kernel?02:18
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: and of kernel-wedge?02:18
fabbioneVersion: 1.25ubuntu202:19
fabbionein the same order as requested :-)02:19
queuetueHi.  I'm a reasonably good python developer interested in ubuntu - is there a list of low-hanging fruit that needs to be worked on so I could get my toes wet and learn about the ubuntu development process?02:24
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: that's weird; I can see why it happens, but it didn't happen for me nor for the buildd; investigating ...02:24
fabbioneKamion: just tell me if there is anything i can test here02:25
fabbioneKamion: only one note: i am not building in a chroot and i have other kernels installed02:25
fabbione(if that's relevant)02:25
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sabdflqueuetue: do you want to become a maintainer, or a contributor on docs and translations?02:27
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) queuetue: I'm not sure we have particularly good lists of low-hanging fruit at the moment, unfortunately, other than trawling bugzilla02:27
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) queuetue: is there something in particular you're interested in?02:27
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queuetueKamion, I'm not picky, but I happen to have a lot of interest in getting jack and professional audio recording/editing easy to use on a linux workstation atm...02:29
queuetuesabdfl, I could do the first two, if someone could walk me through the process - translation, probably not - I'm English only. :)02:30
sabdflqueuetue: are you a maintainer in any other distro, or upstream on any open source projects?02:30
jdubseb128: dude02:31
jdubseb128: duuuuude02:31
jdubseb128: nautilus 2.9.1 :-)02:31
queuetuesabdfl, No, I've contributed over the years to mozilla, python, and the kernel (via kernel-janitors) but nothing large or serious.02:31
seb128jdub: I know, I've packaged the CVS this morning and checked with alex that all was ok :)02:31
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) queuetue: you could always look at the bounty list.02:32
jdubseb128: that's going to make hoary fun :)02:32
sabdflwhat's rocking in the new nautilus?02:33
jdubsabdfl: boNObo -> gone :-)02:33
sabdflqueuetue: ok, to become a maintainer you basiaclly need02:33
sabdflto demonstrate your ability to package upstream code02:33
sabdflpick a piece of software you have a real interest in improving the package of, or which has not yet been pacakged for ubuntu02:34
sabdfllearn about the packaging system, and produce a package02:34
sabdflget feedback from the existing maintainers02:34
seb128jdub: not totally :)02:34
seb128but yeah, no view anymore, less crappy code :)02:35
jdubseb128: it's so close :-)02:35
sabdflqueuetue: then, when it's good enough, it goes in and you get to upload packages to universe02:35
sabdflafter a while you may also get to upload to main02:35
elmo?! how has a random console based app I alien'ed ended up linked to libarts...02:40
lifelesshardlinked ?02:41
lifelessor soft?02:41
pittiMithrandir: FYI, I just modified sysklogd to run syslogd as normal user "syslog" instead of root02:41
pittiMithrandir: do you see any problem with this?02:41
pittiMithrandir: it opens the log files as root and then drops to user "syslog"02:41
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) lifeless: unix filesystems have these things that are kinda like "short cuts" on windows02:41
=== lifeless pfffft
elmolifeless: no, as in, 'when you run ldd, it shows the binary is linked to the libarts library'02:43
azeemelmo: perhaps it was part of some KDE project, and the build process involved linking against libarts for all binaries without further thinking?02:44
elmoaiee, OO.o has some sort of word-completion on-by-default?   how satanic02:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: who owns /var/log/syslog?02:44
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) OOo is satanic02:44
elmoazeem: it's a RAID monitor/configuration program :P02:44
pittiMithrandir: root02:44
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) 02:44
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) haha02:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: note that sysklogd rotates its own logs.02:44
pittiMithrandir: that's the default and I don't want to chage it02:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) thom: no shit.02:44
azeemelmo: with a qt-frontend? ;)02:44
pittiMithrandir: oh, since when?02:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: since forever.?02:44
pittiMithrandir: I always had to add a stanza to /etc/logrotate.conf02:45
elmoand CLIPPY!!02:45
elmoRUN AWAY02:45
lifelesselmo: garh02:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) : tfheen@vawad ~ > grep messages /etc/logrotate.d/*02:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) : tfheen@vawad ~ >02:45
=== thom giggles
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: and I have rotated messages in /var/log02:45
pittiMithrandir: my logs were never rotated on my box02:45
pittiMithrandir: in logrotate.conf?02:46
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: I don't have _anything_ touching files such as /var/log/syslog and /var/log/messages in /etc on my unstable nor my warty box.02:46
pittiMithrandir: /etc/cron.daily/sysklogd 02:47
pittiMithrandir: that's doing it02:47
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: ah, true.02:48
pittiMithrandir: it calls "/etc/init.d/sysklogd reload-or-restart "02:48
pittiMithrandir: I modified sysklogd's init script to really restart the daemon02:48
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pittiMithrandir: so this works02:48
pittiMithrandir: I already checked that before02:48
=== fabbione commits suicide
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: I thought it did it itself, but that ought to work, yes.02:48
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: oh, why?02:48
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: can I have your 4 monitors?02:48
pittiMithrandir: I was more concerned about the fact that I write root files as normal suer02:48
fabbionedaniels: i swear... .. it installed by itself..02:48
pittiMithrandir: I don't see a problem with it right now, but I wanted to have a second opinion02:48
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: it drops priviledges after it has opened the files?02:48
fabbionedaniels: AHHH XPRT ON MY DESKTOP02:48
pittiMithrandir: yes, before it does not work :-)02:49
fabbionebob2: forget it02:49
pittiMithrandir: unless I change the postinst to do some chown magic, but I don't want that02:49
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: hmm.02:49
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hah02:49
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: have you talked with Joey about it? I don't see any big problem with it per se, at least.02:49
pittiMithrandir: theoretically the syslogd user should be as hard to break as the root user02:49
pittiMithrandir: not yet02:50
pittiMithrandir: I will send him a patch, but Iwanted to have something working 02:50
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: I think it's a good idea02:50
pittiMithrandir: btw, if we are at it02:50
pittiMithrandir: I also tried to run klogd as nonroot02:50
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: but it won't be able to reopen the files when they are rotated, so you have to restart it.02:50
pittiMithrandir: yes, that's why I modified the init script02:50
pittiMithrandir: I also documented that in the manpage02:51
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) ok02:51
pittiMithrandir: I tried to drop privs in klogd, too02:51
danielsfabbione: it's better than discovering someone INSTALLED XPRINT ON YOUR SERVER02:51
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) but it blew up?02:51
pittiMithrandir: it opens /proc/kmsg as root and then drops to user02:51
pittiMithrandir: but then I get a permission denied if it reads from the file descriptor02:51
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: sounds like a bug02:51
pittiMithrandir: this works with normal files, but obviously not with files in /proc02:52
pittiMithrandir: I thought that, too02:52
pittiMithrandir: but it's hard to circumvent02:52
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: fix the kernel? :)02:52
pittiMithrandir: doesn't work for Debian, where half of the users run their own kernels02:52
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) get the fix upstream, then.02:52
pittiMithrandir: and I don't want to have it break on custom kernels, too02:52
pittiMithrandir: still it will take a while until everybody has the fix02:53
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: true enough02:53
elmoseriously, does anyone know how to disable OO.o's auto-word-complete insanity?  it's driving me Krazy02:53
azeemelmo: please use #ubuntu for general support questions :p02:55
=== pitti sings "Another root bites the dust"
danielselmo: hm, I got duplicate ACCEPTED notifications for xcompmgr02:55
pittiMithrandir: thanks!02:55
elmoTo: Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@canonical.com>,02:57
elmo        Daniel Stone <daniels@debian.org>02:57
seb128this is annoying, why do we get 2 mails ?02:57
azeemwrong use of dpkg-genchanges I guess02:58
seb128I don't care to get a mail on my debian email for an hoary upload02:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Maintainer: != Changed-By:02:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if the Maintainer: field is legal it'll get a mail02:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) legal i.e. known to Ubuntu's katie02:58
seb128ok, so the right way is to use my @debian.org for the uploads ? :)02:58
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) either that or don't ever use your @debian.org address for hoary uploads at all and get it taken out of katie's allowed list02:59
danielselmo: nevermind me02:59
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) which is what most of us do02:59
elmoseb128: I can take your debian.org address out of the whitelist if you want02:59
danielsKamion: hm, I was advised to set Maintainer: daniels@d.o and C-B: d.s@c.c02:59
danielselmo: if you could take daniels@d.o out, that would be phat02:59
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: I meant wrt the allowed list really03:00
danielsKamion: oh, right03:00
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: ok, something very evil is going on in kernel-wedge here, may take me a while to untangle it03:00
azeemdaniels: set Maintainer to daniels@d.o in .changes, or in debian/control?03:00
seb128elmo: hum, no I prefer to keep it in fact, but thanks. I'll do a mail filter for these rather :)03:00
danielsazeem: control03:01
fabbioneKamion: ah.. ok.. do you have a simple workaround i can use in the meanwhile?03:01
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=== fabbione disables composite
azeemdaniels: it was the Maintainer in .changes which triggered the double mail I guess, you can override that03:01
danielsazeem: yeah, but ugh03:01
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: no, I don't understand it yet, sorry03:02
azeemdaniels: dpkg-buildpackage reads $DEBEMAIL, so you could set that to @canonical.com perhaps03:03
fabbioneKamion: ok no problem.03:03
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: I've come up with a way to reproduce your problem, and it seems to be a bug in kernel-wedge that I couldn't reproduce it; although I completely don't understand why it fails for you with the current kernel-wedge code03:03
fabbioneKamion: do you want access to my box?03:03
fabbioneKamion: it's just my devel workstation, if you want to play just tell me03:04
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) nah, it's ok, I'll be able to fix the bug without that03:05
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: oooohhh!03:09
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: it's locale-dependent; try LC_COLLATE=C03:09
fabbioneKamion: AH03:09
fabbioneKamion: BINGO!03:10
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) [cjwatson@cairhien /tmp] $ sort test03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) -b03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) a03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) c03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) [cjwatson@cairhien /tmp] $ LC_ALL=it_IT.UTF-8 sort test03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) a03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) -b03:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) c03:11
fabbione<- en_DK.UTF803:11
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) that's basically the root cause why you see the problem and I don't; the problem still exists though03:11
fabbioneyeah i agree03:11
fabbionei can live with C for testing.03:12
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) fabbione: kernel-wedge 1.25ubuntu3 uploading, fixes both the reason I didn't see this and the dependency bug itself03:23
fabbioneKamion: ROCKING!03:23
fabbioneKamion: i was thinking that for the first merge i will create a dri struct like this to keep merging simple03:26
fabbioneKamion: linux-source-<ver>/debian/d-i/arch/03:26
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) dri?03:26
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ah03:26
fabbioneand create symlinks to the proper files according to the arch03:27
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if you could basically just copy each linux-kernel-di-* package except for the debian/ directory in there, that would be ideal03:27
fabbioneKamion: you can't :(03:27
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) why not?03:27
fabbionethere is the package-list that is clashing :(03:27
fabbioneotherwise i need to move it somewhere else03:27
fabbioneor rename it like: package-list.<arch>03:28
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) not if you have per-arch directories03:28
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) package-list does have per-arch support, but the merging would get complicated03:28
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I thought you were suggesting just having i386/package-list, i386/kernel-versions, i386/modules/, etc., for each arch03:28
fabbionemy point was to copy linux-kernel-di-/* in that debian/di/<arch> di03:29
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) right03:29
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) if you build it after the linux-image-* packages have been constructed, it should be easy03:29
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) set SOURCEDIR to the linux-image-* temporary tree03:29
fabbioneexactly what i was thinking about03:30
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) but depmod has to be run, and that's what Herbert was talking about03:30
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) kernel-wedge needs the modules.dep file03:30
fabbioneyes i read the mails03:30
fabbionethat's easy03:30
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) in fact I notice that there's already a modules.dep file in the linux-image package03:31
fabbionebut it is simple...03:31
fabbioneyou just call depmod with an arg or 203:31
fabbionei did it before.. i just have to RTFM again to remember how to do it03:31
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) um03:32
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the modules.dep file is already in the package, therefore it must be generated as part of the package build process03:32
fabbioneit's like directory and kernel version03:32
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) unless I'm mistaken you shouldn't have to do anything03:32
fabbioneuh could be yes03:32
fabbioneso is it ok for you if i use a debian/di subdir?03:33
fabbionei don't want to clutter the toplevel since debian lives in the kernel tree already03:33
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, fine by me, make it d-i rather than di I think, or maybe "udebs"03:34
fabbioned-i sounds good to me03:34
fabbioneok i am off for today03:34
fabbionecya later guys03:34
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) cool03:34
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) heh, I'm just off for lunch03:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) bye03:35
danielsseeya fabbione03:37
pittismurfix: I'm currently discussing the cscope patch with Astharot 03:39
pittismurfix: I have some other objections03:39
pittismurfix: wait for his 3rd patch :-)03:40
elmopitti: btw, <hint type=v. subtle>ntpd still runs as root</> ;)03:43
pittielmo: oh, nice idea03:44
pittielmo: I'll put that onto my todo list03:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: uhm, is that possible to change?03:44
=== pitti fetches the "slash root" axe
pittiMithrandir: why it shouldn't?03:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: it needs to be able to call adjtimex(2)03:44
pittiMithrandir:        CAP_SYS_TIME03:44
pittiMithrandir: should work03:44
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) EPERM buf.mode is non-zero and the user is not super-user.03:45
pitti"Allow   modification  of  system  clock(3,n)  (settimeofday(2),  adj-03:45
pitti              timex(2)); allow modification of real-time (hardware) clock"03:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) not according to the man page for adjtimex.03:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) but it might03:45
pittiMithrandir: yes, all manpages only talk about root, not capabilities03:45
pittiMithrandir: but that's an error of the manpages03:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) file bugs!03:45
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) :)03:45
pittiMithrandir: I'm currently trying to depriv klogd03:46
pittiMithrandir: I play around with various capabilities03:46
elmoMithrandir: RH has a patch for it - I believe it's even in current Debian source, it just doesn't run as a non-root user for some reason03:47
pittieven nicer03:47
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: ok :)03:48
pittiMithrandir: next one is X.org :-))03:49
danielselmo: are our kernels NX?03:49
pittiMithrandir: no, not seriously03:49
danielspitti: HA HA HA03:49
elmodaniels: no idea03:49
pittimy ps aux also shows gpm, but that's not supported03:49
danielselmo: 'kay03:49
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: you. are. on. crack. :)03:49
danielsdoes anyone know if our kernels are NX?03:49
pittiMithrandir: with the root slash axe in my hands, I am :-)03:49
danielsMithrandir: there's no WRITE_RANDOM_SHIT_INTO_DEV_MEM capability, sadly03:49
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(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: NX as in nonexecutable?03:50
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: it's so wrong that X servers do that.03:50
elmoif it still needs ingo's patch, then it won't be in 03:52
elmoI'm not sure if mainline does, esp. in era03:53
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: not as bad as the READ_RANDOM_SHIT_FROM_DEV_MEM that they used to do in order to get "randomness"03:53
danielsMithrandir: non-executable03:53
danielsMithrandir: yeah, writing to the video card is for suckahs :P03:54
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(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: if they happen to hit the area covered by /dev/random, it shouldn't be too bad. :P03:55
smurfixpitti: the last version goes into an endless loop if TMPDIR is too long, not to mention that the buffer isn't null terminated.03:56
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pittismurfix: argh, you are right03:57
pittiAstharot: I'd recommend checking strlen(tempname)03:59
pittiAstharot: before strcpy'ing 03:59
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pittiMithrandir: argh04:05
pittiMithrandir: reading /proc/kmsg requires CAP_SYS_ADMIN04:05
pittiMithrandir: WTF invented this???04:05
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) er, that's just Wrong.04:07
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) CAP_SYS_ADMIN is ~root, isn't it?04:07
pittiMithrandir: nearly as good as root, yes04:08
pittiMithrandir: you can boot, mount, change hostnames, and so on04:08
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) yeah04:08
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) reading from kmsg does empty the buffer, though04:08
pittiMithrandir: I tried with less crucial caps, but it doesn't work04:08
pittiMithrandir: it should be something like CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH04:09
pittiMithrandir: oh sorry, SYS_ADMIN does not allow to boot04:09
pittiMithrandir: but mounting devices is bad enough04:09
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pittiMithrandir: I'm not sure whether this is worth the effort then04:09
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) sounds like an oversight in the kernel04:10
pittiMithrandir: actually there should be an extra capabilitiy for reading kernel messages04:10
pittiMithrandir: it doesn't really fit in any existing one04:10
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) probably why it was added to SYS_ADMIN, then04:11
pittiMithrandir: it's still slightly better than root04:12
pittiMithrandir: but I think you can get root privileges with mount, too04:12
pittiMithrandir: one could loopback mount a new /etc and thus overwrite shadow or so04:12
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) far easier than that04:13
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) make a filesystem with a setuid copy of /bin/sh on it, loopback-mount that04:13
pittiKamion: yes, right04:13
pittiso I suppose I just leave it as root then04:13
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: it'll stop script kiddies, but nobody who knows their unix.04:13
pittinot worth the fuss04:13
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(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) speaking of which, are we getting a pimp new ppc glibc in hoary?04:27
elmobob2: no04:31
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(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) there's a new glibc in experimental isn't there?04:33
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) at least, gotom has been talking about doing that04:33
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hm, not uploaded yet04:33
azeemthe glibc guys are good at talking :)04:33
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: that's not really fair to them04:34
azeemheh, just joking04:34
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ok :)04:34
azeemoh, jbailey is not around, so the pun was not recieved anyway04:34
[Clint] they're just on a different timescale than some people04:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) [Clint] : it's not their fault, it's the release team being evil04:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) we told them in no uncertain terms to stop pulling from CVS ages ago04:35
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) (for sarge)04:36
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[Clint] they're still on a different timescale04:36
azeemyeah, but they could upload to experimental, no?04:36
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: gets difficult as soon as shlibdeps change04:36
[Clint] there are other people on that timescale too04:36
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) but do they want to maintain 3 branches of glibc?04:36
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: anyone installing packages from experimental would have to install experimental glibc too, and before you know it we'd end up effectively trying to support it04:37
azeembob2: woody isn't really a branch04:37
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hm, s'pose so04:37
azeemKamion: the trick is to tell sbuild/whatever to only pull from experimental if the Build-Depends explicitely require a version from there I guess04:37
pittismurfix: Astharot just sent another patch04:38
pittismurfix: since I proposed much of this code, would you mind taking a look at it?04:38
azeemin any case, did you guys ask the glibc maintainers whether they would perhaps start working on glibc now, get it into hoary first and then into sid once sarge is done?04:38
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(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: this channel's proabbly better...04:39
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) and yes, I can get you the build tree after04:39
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) do you want it even for success?04:39
danielslamont: i'm expecting failure, tbh04:39
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) azeem: well, they already have started working on it; there's stuff in svn and I see a lot of stuff in my #debian-glibc scrollback04:39
azeemah, cool04:40
azeemthen bribe them to work faster :)04:40
(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ergh04:40
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: given my email this morning, I understand fully. :-)04:40
(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) does anyone know where to find the debian cramfs-initrd patch broken out?04:40
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) I'm pretty sure it's upstream in 2.604:40
(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) ah, thatll do04:41
danielslamont: heh :)04:42
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: btw, I see that you already fixed the other 2, so I won't mention them. :-)04:43
=== daniels coughs.
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) anyway, lob me a pointer to source, and I'll throw it against the wall and see if it sticks04:43
danielslamont: just building it now for you04:45
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) cool04:45
=== azeem doesn't understand why Canonical hasn't snatched jbailey yet anyway - He knows the toolchain very well, is cdbs upstream and according to his blog seems to be looking for a new job
danielsthom: if the screenshot is no use, please reassign to xserver-xfree86+d.s@c.c and ask for lspci output and /var/log/XFree86.0.log04:50
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(thom/#ubuntu-devel) righto04:52
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: eta? just trying to figure out when I should bounce back in front of my computer from the grand install fest in the house...04:52
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smurfixpitti: I'd dr04:54
=== lamont bbiab
pittismurfix: i'd only change the permission to 060004:54
pittismurfix: otherwise it looks good now04:54
danielsthom: (by 'no use', I mean, shows no corruption -> it's a rendering bug)04:55
smurfixpitti: OK. I'd use strcpy now, since the length has been tested -- not much point in filling the whole buffer with zeroes, but that's just my preference.04:55
danielslamont: on the way now04:55
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: you're getting this bug, don't worry ;-)04:57
danielsthom: did I say 'my shout tonight'?  whoops ...04:58
smurfixpitti: assuming he has actually tested the patch, unlike his first one :-) looks OK otherwise.05:00
jdublifeless: ping05:01
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ok, ifrename stuff is definitely not working properly in hoary05:04
=== Kamion cranks up the hotplug debugging
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Warning: Interface name is `eth0' at line 2, can't be mapped reliably.05:12
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) Error: cannot change name of eth1 to eth0: File exists05:12
smurfixKamion: well, if eth0 exists, that sortof makes sense...05:15
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) smurfix: the real question's why eth0 hasn't already been renamed to something else05:15
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) which I think is because it didn't get detected by the installer for some reason, or netcfg just couldn't be arsed to write out the iftab line, or something05:16
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I'd also like to know why events sometimes seem to get lost between hotplug and udev :(05:17
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) is hal meant to be tcp-reliable?05:17
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danielsbob2: ... ?05:19
danielsbob2: <hal> ah rad, a new bit of hardware! <hal> dbus: yo <dbus> hal: sup <hal> dbus: new mouse, yo <dbus> ALRIGHT SUCKERS, THERE'S A NEW MOUSE <hal> dbus: kthxbye05:20
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) you should write a book05:21
danielsabout what?  the fd.o platform?05:21
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) hah05:22
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) speaking of which...05:22
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: I think we should have an IRC client interface to DBUS.05:23
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) DBUS-over-IRC.05:23
danielswouldn't be terribly difficult05:24
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) with aussie dialect?05:24
ironwolfdaniels: it worked, thanks.05:24
daniels'yo' and 'sup' are not aussie dialect :P05:24
danielsironwolf: rockin :)05:25
danielsironwolf: we'll fix it for hoary, thanks for the debugging help05:25
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) writing unit tests considered boring05:25
=== rburton slaps thom with an XP book
rburtonthom: unit tests are good for your karma, or do you want to come back as a winxp administrator?05:26
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) thom: you just failed your unit test.05:26
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) just because they're "cool" doesn't make writing tests for correct md5 generation fun :P05:26
danielsrburton: shouldn't you have someone pick up the book, hand it to someone who does the backswing, and then another independent person to take care of the foreswing, with unit-tested interfaces between each?05:27
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: as long as that's not the same as SteveA failing his, that's fine05:27
rburtondaniels: yes05:27
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) thom: do I want you to elaborate?05:27
rburtondaniels: with a mock thom object to confirm that the force of the slap was sufficient05:27
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) thom: in the SHOWER05:27
danielsrburton: remind me to bring a very heavy book next week ;)05:27
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: where?05:27
danielsrburton: why a mock one?05:27
rburtondaniels: just for checking. then replace with real thom in the real world05:28
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) Mithrandir: almost certainly not05:28
ironwolfdaniels: Where do I suggest changing maxtaptime to 130 as default in xorg.conf for synaptic pads?  bugzilla? or just bonk you? :)05:29
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) no bonking on channel, please05:29
=== lamont must run to fix something for his wife... daniels - if you tell me where to fetch from, I'll start that before I leave...
danielslamont: p.u.c/~daniels/xorg05:30
danielslamont: but!! remove debian/patches/000_stolen_from_fedora.diff from the source package05:30
danielslamont: rm != baz rm05:30
danielsironwolf: hmm.  any negative side-effects this could have?05:31
RubenVfor those interested05:31
danielsironwolf: i assume this is for people who can't/don't complete a tap within 100ms(?)05:31
RubenVi've just build cvs packages for beep-media-player05:31
ironwolfdaniels: well, it works now, didn't really work well before.  It made it so that faster/*normal for me* taps actually were acknowledged.05:32
ironwolfdaniels: so no, no bad effects.05:32
danielsironwolf: sorry?  i would presume it meant taps could last long05:32
danielsironwolf: e.g. if you tapped for 120ms, it would work now, but not before05:33
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: and you want the build dir even for success, yes?05:33
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) build running.05:33
ironwolfdaniels: appears to be opposite. *no clue why*05:33
=== lamont back in about 90-120 minutes or so.
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danielsironwolf: bong05:38
ironwolfdaniels: bong?05:38
danielsironwolf: 'that's weird'05:39
ironwolfdaniels: tell me about it... :)05:39
ironwolfdaniels: that's why I asked.05:39
eruinsmells like hash05:42
lifelessjdub: pong05:43
lifelessjdub: shiny gnome syncs05:43
=== daniels coughs.
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azeem" A quiet revolution is taking place on the home desktop market and it's called MEPIS Linux."05:51
azeemdudes, you're out of the game05:51
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, dunno why we wasted so much time05:51
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) or why LWN is running press releases05:51
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) gnnnnnnnnn05:55
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) why does init=/bin/sh give me a blank screen, eh?05:55
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ah, vga=771 seems to be causing issues; yet without it I get a screen too big for my display :(05:56
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I hate Via and all its spawn05:57
eruintake a look at that menu05:59
eruinreminds me of some crude mix of win95alpha and a modern linux desktop06:00
mdzthom: welcome back06:01
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) ubuntu's menu just can't compete with that06:01
mdzmorning, folks06:01
robtayloreruin: oh my god06:01
eruinhehe yeah06:02
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=== robtaylor marvels
eruinpretty horrible innit06:03
mvo__good morning mdz 06:03
chrisaThey made KDE look worse06:03
robtaylorthat takes some skill ;)06:03
eruinyeah, hehe06:04
danielsbashing MEPIS considered offtopic06:06
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: thanks :-)06:06
danielsmdz: 'morning boss06:06
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: i tried to reply to your text, but it seems it got et06:06
mdzthom: oh, you received that? interesting06:09
mdzthom: I tried to call as well, but it went straight to voicemail06:09
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, i got your voice mail when i landed06:10
mdzbut you got the text stateside?06:10
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yup06:10
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) on the train06:10
mdzmvo__: your underscores are growing :-)06:11
mdzmvo__: is there a good way for upgrade-notifier to take advantage of APT::Periodic::Download-Upgradeable-Packages ?06:11
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) two hours of fun on the public "transport" system06:11
mvo_mdz: sure! I'll add a option for this to the coming preferences for it06:12
pittiHi mdz!06:13
mdzmvo_: I guess it will need to prompt for the root password to modify the config06:13
mdzthom: which one?06:13
mvo_mdz: yes, that's going to be needed06:13
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: hollywood/western -> LAX06:14
mdzthom: oh god06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeah06:14
mdzI did that once06:14
mdzred -> blue -> green or whatever06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) "oh god" covers that pretty well06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeha06:14
mdzI live near the universal city station06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) and then a free bus06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) oh, right06:14
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) i was trying to work out where studio city was :-)06:15
mdzjust about 2 hours as I recall06:15
mdzand a 20-minute wait at one of the transfers06:15
mdzLA transit does have the benefits of the "honor system", though06:15
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) nod06:18
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) and then the fun of the Trillions Standing Around at LAX06:18
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) 1718 is pretty close to beer o'clock in london06:19
danielshonor system?06:19
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) aiui06:19
danielsthom: not to mention the numerous GWB portraits06:19
mdzdaniels: you just walk on06:19
mdzand they randomly ask to see tickets06:20
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, i didn't get asked in 4 days06:20
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) the bus to santa monica was interesting, too06:21
danielsmdz: ah, rad06:21
danielsmdz: if you get enough inspectors, it works better than barriers or whatever06:21
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) oops, incredibly stupid hw-detect mistake by me ...06:23
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) set variable $HOTPLUG_TYPE, test $hotplug_type06:24
danielsmmm, i've done that a few times06:24
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) bob2: where is best for you guys?06:24
mdzdaniels: where are you, anyway?  London?06:25
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) everyone who's anyone is in london06:25
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, they're lowering house prices06:25
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) the best people are a few dozen miles north06:26
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) thom: erm, dunno06:26
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) thom: earl's court high street is right near the hotel tho :)06:26
danielsmdz: yah, been here for a week06:27
danielsthom: we're at south ken now, we'll be at earl's court later06:28
danielsthom: so logically anywhere near those two points, or between, is phat06:31
danielsand dope06:31
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) and k-rad?06:31
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) shall i -> sarf ken, then?06:31
danielsthom: how long will it take?06:32
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) some time06:33
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) uh, some random time06:33
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) less than an hour06:33
danielsthom: if my memory serves me correctly, and it's ~30min, fo'shizzle06:33
danielspost-6pm sounds reasonable06:33
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) yeah, that's about right06:35
rburtonthom: you'll need one of these if you are going down to da hood with daniels -- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/24/iboom.jpg06:36
eruinthat pod looks so out of place06:36
(thom/#ubuntu-devel) *g*06:36
danielsrburton: oh dear06:37
danielsghetto lyf06:37
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) hmm, I think I may need to create a pciutils-udeb06:44
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) I can't present the names of network interfaces otherwise06:45
smurfixRich , using 06:47
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(thom/#ubuntu-devel) right06:52
=== thom -> south ken now
(bob2/#ubuntu-devel) rock06:53
danielsthom: dope, seeya in a bit06:54
mdzoh yay, de-rootified syslogd07:05
danielsmdz: yeah, pitti went off about half an hour ago, he mumbled something about starting on derootifying X07:06
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azeemexecutive review of MEPIS: 12(!) modified packages (mostly alsa, the kernel [without source] , cloop) three new binary-only packages (control/system center, installer) and a themes package07:44
danielskernel modified sans source?07:44
=== daniels raises an eyebrow.
azeemthere are a couple of patches in /usr/src07:45
azeemthe dorks in #mepis told me I should get the source at kernel.org07:45
azeembut couldn't even tell me it's modified from vanilla or debian07:45
azeemof course, they don't ship any of the source for their packages (except glibc, incidently), they refer to ftp.debian.org07:45
danielssmooth move07:46
azeem19:14 < darkstego> I am guessing azeem doesn't have access to the private dowload07:46
azeemanyway, no match, they just seem to be good at bribing "authors"07:46
(Kamion/#ubuntu-devel) ooh, anything I can GPL clause 4 them for?07:47
azeemroblimo wrote a book about MEPIS, but couldn't tell me off-hand their APT-source line ("eh? what for? I'm using a GUI client...")07:47
azeemit's 2004.mepis.org/mepis, if you want to have a look07:47
azeem(of course, they might have all the source package somewhere else and I did not find it yet, but I doubt that)07:48
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: you around still?07:53
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: you around?07:55
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) Preconfiguring packages ...07:55
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) Can't exec "lspci": No such file or directory at /tmp/libglide3.config.429423 line 74, <STDIN> line 2.07:55
danielslamont: represent07:58
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mxpxpodseb128: ping08:01
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(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) represent?08:04
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) oh08:04
elmolamont: daniels is stuck in his time warp again - he thinks he's a wapper from the 80's08:05
elmoclearly, David Bellamy wasn't insulting enough - I think we'll have to step it up a notch and start calling him Vanilla or VI08:06
elmo\o/ [yay for 200 miles of physical distance :)] 08:06
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) lol08:06
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danielselmo: it's been done -- someone did that like two years ago.  mr time warp. :P08:08
mjg59They can't just refer to ftp.debian.org08:09
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=== spotter plays w/ fdclock package
=== spotter is now known as shaya
mjg59That would only work if we distributed under 3b, which we don't08:09
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eruinpermissions on /dev/nv* are too restrictive all of a sudden08:32
eruinany recent updates that might cause that?08:32
seb128lamont: yes ?08:32
seb128mxpxpod: pong08:32
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: was griping about glide08:32
seb128I've nothing to do with glide afaik08:33
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) ah, ok. It starts with 'g' you see... :-)08:33
seb128yep, but this one is not mine :)08:34
mxpxpodseb128: have you looked into making a gaim-dev package?08:34
seb128mxpxpod: herz1 is working on that, #395908:35
mxpxpodseb128: awesome, thanks08:35
=== lamont goes to install a computer or 3
=== jbailey [~jbailey@dragonfly.fundserv.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
herz1mxpxpod: i think we can close the bug at the weekend08:40
herz1.oO(today is criawips hacking day for me)08:40
mxpxpodherz1: that's awesome!08:40
herz1yes, i want to build a gaim-encryption package08:40
=== herz1 files a bug for that
mxpxpodherz1: hopefully, that will lead to gaim plugin packages08:40
mxpxpodherz1: and a gaim-evolution-plugin package08:40
mxpxpodherz1: there should probably be a standard naming scheme for gaim plugins08:41
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mxpxpodherz1: like gaim-plugin-foo08:41
herz1sounds good08:41
herz1apt-cache should be happy if we have upstreams package names in the long descrption08:42
herz1mxpxpod: 407908:43
seb128feel free to package/maintain it guys08:44
seb128herz1: the bug is about getting the package done by somebody or you're saying you'll maintain it ?08:44
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herz1i can create and maintain it08:47
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seb128herz1: cool :)08:47
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mdzChanged-By: Brandon Hale <brandon@localhost.localdomain>08:54
mdztseng: might want to change that :-)08:54
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Keybukmdz: Yeah, people who upload with someone else's name in Changed-By are odd :p09:10
=== _rene__ is now known as _rene_
mdzKeybuk: which of the photo->{html,thumbnails} generators do you use?09:12
mdztseng: if I confused nicks, ignore me09:12
Keybukmdz: NIH09:12
mdzthere are about 50 in Debian, surely one of them is decent09:12
mdzI just want something less scary than gallery09:13
Keybukdunno, they all seem to pre-suppose MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP, etc.09:13
Keybukmine's just a shell script that does some imagemagick and writes out a static html page09:14
mdzI've written similar stuff too many times and want someone else to maintain it :-P09:15
azeemcthumb is what Keybuk described, except it is written in perl09:16
Keybukheh, at some point I'll probably investigate pyblosxom gallery plugins; that seems to be a good way forward09:16
azeemotherwise, gthumb does a good job for publishing albums if you only need to do this once in a while, IMHO09:16
=== Keybuk wonders whether f-spot has a publish facility
azeemit's at least being worked on, jimmac blogged about that IIRC09:18
mdzI'm trying curator, purely because it's python09:20
mdzaw, seems to be unmaintained09:20
mdzboth upstream AND in Debian09:21
mdzbins, cthumb, curator, igal, imageindex and album are the ones I see09:21
mdzand galrey09:21
elmothe more featureful ones seem to have chequered pasts security wise :(09:22
Keybuk"Root me, root me, root me with your HTML-embedded scripting language!"09:23
mdzelmo: yeah, I just want something simple and non-interactive09:28
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mdzwhich I think most of those are09:28
=== lamont_ kicks ac97 sound
mdzcurator produces reasonably nice output09:28
lamont_0000:00:02.7 Multimedia audio controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]  Sound Controller (rev a0)09:28
lamont_should that work?09:28
zulit should09:29
zuli have one09:29
mdzlamont_: yeah, it's pretty common09:30
elmoI think last time I used igal because it was simple and produced nice multi-size options09:30
lamont_mdz: speaker icon in the panel has a red slash through it...09:30
mdzlamont_: I know you can dig deeper than that :-)09:31
lamont_yeah - digging dammit09:31
lamont_zul: is loaded09:33
lamont_SiS SI7012 [alsa mixer] 09:33
lamont_sigh.  once you unmute things, you still have to turn up the volume control on the speaker to > 0. :-(09:35
=== lamont_ grumbles and wanders awaty
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(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) mdz: you caught me09:46
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(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) bonnie is now installing warty on her own computer, which has a second hard drive for doing hoary test installs.09:52
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) that reminds me... gonna need a switch over there now...09:52
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=== jdub sucks down the new nautilus -> woo
RubenVanything special 'bout it?10:16
(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) it seems pretty fast.10:16
(tseng/#ubuntu-devel) like, on hard drugs fast.10:16
RubenVif only my mirror wouldn't be broken10:17
jdubRubenV, tseng: no more bonobo! (mostly)10:18
RubenVlet's fix my sources list10:18
RubenVgotta have that :)10:18
sivangjdub : already in hoary?10:28
jdubsivang: yes, seb128 is the master :)10:28
sivangjdub : yes he is :)10:28
=== sivang auptgrading
jdublamont: aren't we shifting to gcc-3.4 for hoary?10:29
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sivangjdub : does it use any new file search/index system? really fast..10:33
eruinnew nautilus you say? /me aptgetupdates10:35
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(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: uh, sure... that's a gcc-defaults change, I expect...10:36
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) atm, we haven't yet.10:36
eruinany particular spot I can place flags like mcpu, etc?10:38
eruinsorry, wrong channel indeed10:39
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__danielanyone else having problems logging into the wiki?10:41
__danieli always get "... connection terminated unexpectedly ..." error messages :-/10:41
jdublamont: hrm, we should probably do that sooner rather than later10:41
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) jdub: yeah.10:41
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) that's a doko thing.10:42
=== jdub just got his boxes of CDs :-)
dokojdub, lamont: we didn't decide on a gcc shift for hoary. with the C++ API change that would mean a lot of diversion in changing package names to reflect the new ABI and integration of somewhat 400 not yet applied patches to sucessfully build with 3.4. Not sure, if we really want to do that.10:46
Mithrandirdoko: do you think we could have a talk about multiarch in Mataro?10:48
Mithrandirdoko: like talking together, not holding a speech10:48
MithrandirI want to move forward10:48
mvo_hi __daniel 10:48
__danielhai mvo_10:48
dokoMithrandir: who was the guy working on multiarch?10:49
Mithrandirdoko: darksatanic hacked a bit on the dpkg part of it.. apart from that, me. :)10:49
dokoMithrandir: yes, I know ;) yes, should be worth half a day or a day.10:51
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elmoif the gnome desktop background change thing breaks - what's the most likely thing to kick/look at ?11:31
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seb128elmo: define the breakage11:31
pittiHi guys11:32
seb128you change it in the UI and there is no change at screen ?11:32
=== pitti is back from concert
seb128evening pitti 11:32
elmoseb128: right11:32
jdubseb128: just uploaded vino + libxdamage-dev11:32
jdubseb128: just about to upload howl and gnome-vfs11:32
seb128elmo: that's #909, gconf's bug11:33
seb128elmo: killall -HUP metacity should do the trick as a workaround11:33
elmopitti: please switch to uploading directly to jackass11:33
jdubseb128: unfortunately, the howl change is going to be scary :-)11:33
seb128jdub: what's new in gnome-vfs ?11:33
seb128oh, howl/gnomevfs11:33
jdub(howl dependency)11:33
seb128jdub: go go go, we need some scary changes, hoary is getting boring :p11:34
jdubthis is really scary though11:34
jdubbecause we link so... liberally11:34
jdub(libtool's fault?"11:34
jdubeverything that links to gnomevfs (which means EVERYTHING) will stop working when howl upgrades :-)11:34
jdub        libhowl-0.9.6.so.1 => not found11:35
jdub^ FEAR11:35
seb128and while I'm thinking about that11:35
=== jdub hates liberal linking :)
seb128if somebody know an app linking on the old libnautilus2.so let me know11:35
seb128since this lib has been dropped :p11:36
seb128(abiword was broken due to that)11:36
elmoseb128: doesn't seem to have worked :(11:36
seb128elmo: killall nautilus if you don't use it atm :)11:36
=== Mithrandir hates the new libpng
jdubseb128: so how should we deal with this mass b0rk?11:37
elmoseb128: that worked, thanks!11:37
jdubseb128: lots of package uploads sounds like teh suck to me.11:37
seb128elmo: np11:37
seb128jdub: thinking about it, that really sucks11:37
pittielmo: I tried, but ftp does not work very well for me11:37
seb128jdub: move the issue to #gnome-debian :)11:37
pittielmo: but I can route it over my server and upload from there11:38
jdubseb128: our problem :-)11:40
seb128apparently :)11:41
seb128ok, so11:42
seb128$ apt-cache rdepends libhowl0 | wc -l11:42
seb128jdub: so, what's the libhowl lib name now ?11:44
seb128libhowl.so.0.... ?11:45
jdub0.0.0 :-)11:45
seb128I you did name the package correctly we wouldn't have this problem now :p11:46
=== seb128 kicks jdub
jdubit was .1 before! and totally broken! :)11:46
seb128yeah, crappy stuff should not go in the archive in the first place :p11:46
jdubwe hadn't identified the arse yet, unfortunately :|11:47
seb128BTW, the only right solution is the massive rebuild11:47
seb128is it binary compatible with the previous one ?11:47
jdubelmo: 11:47
jdubPGP/GnuPG signature check failed on vino_2.8.1-0ubuntu2_source.changes11:47
jdubgpg: Signature made Wed Nov 24 17:27:31 2004 EST using DSA key ID 565B38F911:47
jdubgpg: Can't check signature: public key not found11:47
jdub(Exit status 2)11:47
jdubvino_2.8.1-0ubuntu2_source.changes has bad PGP/GnuPG signature!11:48
jdubRemoving vino_2.8.1-0ubuntu2_source.changes, but keeping its associated files11:48
jdubfor now.11:48
jdubseb128: i think so - i can check11:48
seb128jdub: in which case include a dummy libhowl-0.9.6.so.1 11:48
seb128time to rebuild11:48
seb128but we need to be sure to not build/link against the dummy :p11:49
seb128yeah, that's ugly ... but could avoid apps breakage11:49
jdubbtw, is your totem crashing on startup atm?11:49
seb128gst or xine ?11:49
__danieljdub: are you talking about the hoary ones?11:50
seb128jdub: it crashes with empty playlists11:50
seb128jdub: workaround, start it with an file in argument and keep it in the list :)11:50
jdubthanks :)11:52
jdubelmo: ping?11:55
jdubseb128: that's a reasonable workaround -> perhaps we should wait until after 2.9.2 comes out next week to reduce the rebuild load?11:57
enricoHello.  It appears that we can't log into the wiki: is someone aware of it?11:58
seb128jdub: oh, I've a less-ugly solution :p11:59
seb128jdub: but longer to get11:59
enricoLike... the docteam people are a bit stuck without being able to log into the wiki...11:59
seb128jdub: upload a gnomevfs without howl, keep it the time to get the howl depends down and put the new back11:59
jdubenrico: please ping elmo11:59
seb128ie: 2.9.2 will not depends on howl12:00
jdubseb128: bah, that's no fun!12:00

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