[12:58] <ChrisH> Cool web site: http://www.sorryeverybody.com/ :)
[03:20] <George^Deka> arvo all
[03:26] <George^Deka> hi hornbeck
[03:26] <George^Deka> its been a while since i checked out the svn, i gather from the ML its all going really well
[03:29] <George^D^Work> back to work now will lurk around for a while though
[09:40] <sivang> Morning all
[11:30] <cenerentola> hello ppl
[11:31] <cenerentola> could someone please explain me how to create a new faq entry in the wiki [im translating it in italian] ?
[11:35] <lulu> cenerentola: we are working on getting linguaPlone installed for local language support on the website in the Documentation section.
[11:35] <cenerentola> should i do it in a normal page?
[11:35] <lulu> cenerentola: on the wiki, simply log in and go to the Italian documentation section. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ItalianDocumentation
[11:36] <cenerentola> then?
[11:38] <lulu> cenerentola: check out: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[11:38] <lulu> and http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HelpPage
[11:38] <lulu> for assistance.
[11:39] <cenerentola> lulu: halt... normal page or not? just this... i know where the help page are and where the documentation is... i wrote part of it
[11:45] <lulu> cenerentola: in the Italian section, you can create new pages by using the 'create new' page at the bottom of main wiki page.
[12:17] <George^Deka> nite all
[12:19] <George^Deka> any apt pinning experts here, i want to apt pin firefox from hoary for warty
[12:19] <ChrisH> George^Deka: morning. :)
[12:19] <ChrisH> George^Deka: yes, a little...
[12:20] <ChrisH> George^Deka: add both sources in the sources.list
[12:20] <ChrisH> George^Deka: then set APT::Default-Release "warty" in the apt.conf
[12:20] <ChrisH> George^Deka: finally run "apt-get -t hoary install firefox"
[12:21] <ChrisH> George^Deka: you may also use pinning... but this one is more secure against misconfigurations
[12:23] <George^Deka> thanks ChrisH
[12:23] <George^Deka> i have an apt.conf.d that it ?
[12:24] <sivang> ChrisH : does it matter the order of the sources you put into the list?
[12:24] <ChrisH> sivang: nope... if you are not pinning or setting a default release apt will always use the newest version
[12:24] <ChrisH> sivang: you can find out with "apt-cache policy mozilla" for example
[12:25] <sivang> wow cool
[12:25] <George^Deka> ChrisH: i have an apt.conf.d that it ?
[12:25] <ChrisH> George^Deka: no... just create the /etc/apt/apt.conf if it's not there
[12:26] <sivang> yes you need to create the apt.conf file
[12:33] <George^Deka> thanks, not got some syntax error, extra jargon at end of file - saved it as unicode
[12:42] <George^Deka> fixed just needed a ;
[12:43] <ChrisH> :)
[07:08] <lulu> plovs_work: ping
[07:13] <lulu> Que: I've just had Diogo ask where the Portugese Documentation has gone....https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PortugueseDocumentation. I'm a newbie at Zwiki - in recent changes, it looks as if it wasn't deleted.
[07:14] <lulu> could someone with more knowledge advise please?
[07:18] <sm-reading> hi lulu.. he deleted it, an hour ago
[07:19] <lulu> sm-reading: where did you find that :o)
[07:20] <lulu> I saw he added DocsParaProgramadores  NEW   
[07:20] <sm-reading> I'm subscribed to the wiki; I filtered my ubuntu-doc mail folder by "portuguese" :)
[07:20] <falco> it's a translation for DevelopersDocumentation
[07:21] <sm-reading> you can also check http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/recycle_bin/folder_contents
[07:21] <sm-reading> thirdly, you could look in the ZMI undo tab for the folder
[07:21] <falco> it's there
[07:22] <lulu> but not associated to the FrontPage anymore?
[07:22] <falco> how may it went there?
[07:22] <sm-reading> if he had renamed the page, the FrontPage link would have been updated
[07:22] <falco> it seems to me that not
[07:23] <sm-reading> or if he had entered the new name as "replacement" in the delete form, the link would have been updated
[07:23] <sm-reading> but he just deleted it, so FrontPage needs to be updated manually
[07:23] <falco> there is no replacement
[07:23] <falco> it's a mistake
[07:24] <falco> it should be put back
[07:25] <sm-reading> lulu, if you're logged in as manager you can click undo, I think you'll see the delete
[07:25] <sm-reading> that's the easiest way to undo
[07:25] <sm-reading> otherwise, copy from recycle_bin and paste back into /wiki
[07:26] <lulu> sm-reading: and falco:  ahh ok....I think Diogo needs to learn too. I'll copy this and reply to his email.
[07:26] <lulu> thanks guys, for your help.
[07:26] <lulu> :o)
[07:27] <sm-reading> np
[07:30] <sm-reading> lulu: nb you wrote "in recent changes, it looks as if it wasn't deleted." - after being deleted, it shouldn't appear in rc and didn't for me - if you saw it, probably a caching glitch
[07:31] <lulu> sm-reading: correct - I didn't see it in recent changes. thanks :o)
[07:31] <lulu> sm-reading: why is it that deletions aren't shown?
[07:32] <sm-reading> ah, you expected to see it
[07:32] <sm-reading> our RC implementation isn't that smart
[07:32] <lulu> sm-reading: yup - as it's a change :o)
[07:32] <lulu> ahh...wiki wish list?
[07:33] <sm-reading> yes, I think it's there already
[07:33] <sm-reading> in the wishlist
[07:33] <lulu> thank you! :o)
[07:43] <falco> sm: so to recover the page should it be reparented?
[07:43] <falco> I'm not used to this wiki
[07:43] <falco> it seems a bit alien
[07:47] <sm> no, reparenting isn't involved here
[07:47] <falco> so what should be made?
[07:47] <sm> falco: to undelete a page, it must be moved out of the recycle_bin subfolder
[07:48] <falco> how?
[07:48] <sm> I don't know if you (a member) have permission for that
[07:48] <sm> can you see the recycle bin (url above ?) do you see a copy button ?
[07:48] <falco> I don't see a copu button
[07:49] <sm> ok.. l will do it, one sec
[07:50] <falco> *copy
[07:50] <sm> done
[07:50] <sm> were you logged in ?
[07:51] <falco> yes
[07:57] <sm> strange that I can.. I'm logged in as an ordinary member afaik
[07:59] <falco> maybe I'm just looking in the rong place...
[07:59] <falco> let me check again
[08:01] <falco> no
[08:01] <falco> I can't see it
[08:03] <falco> I think that maybe there're to many restrictions in the wiki
[08:03] <lulu> night guys  :o)
[08:05] <falco> or maybe I'm just to used to other simpler wikis
[08:50] <sm> falco: undelete is generally a manager feature
[08:50] <plovs> hi all
[08:50] <sm> not really a priority for normal users - if you delete, it's assumed you meant to
[08:50] <sm> hi plovs
[09:33] <enrico> Hello everyone.  Did you get any mail today from ubuntu-doc?  I haven't, and I know there should be at least one reply to a message of mine that should have gotten through
[09:47] <ChrisH> enrico: Yes, Nick Loeve has posted today. But it's matter of time zones.
[09:47] <sivang> Are we plannign the meeting?
[09:47] <sivang> (hi all)
[09:48] <enrico> Hi!
[09:48] <enrico> ChrisH: only that message, then?
[09:48] <ChrisH> sivang: [hi]  I haven't sent in a time. But I have some meetings during the week that are very dynamic. So I can only see it the time is okay.
[09:48] <ChrisH> enrico: think so
[09:48] <enrico> ChrisH: ok, thanks
[09:49] <sivang> any time chosen already?
[09:50] <sivang> ok, do we have a majority on a specific time?
[09:50] <enrico> I posted in the list about the times not really fitting together, and I had no answer except from plovs telling that he prefers tuesdays or fridays
[09:51] <enrico> I'm worried that people didn't understand my masterpiece of ascii-art timeline intersection graph...
[09:51] <ChrisH> enrico: I did. :)
[09:53] <sivang> I'm also for fridays,
[09:53] <sivang> 16:00 utc
[09:53] <sivang> or bit earlier
[09:54] <sivang> ChrisH : hi 
[09:56] <enrico> 16:00utc... darn
[09:56] <enrico> sivang: did you see my wonderful ascii-art mail? :)
[09:56] <ChrisH> btw... what is SABDFL an abbreviation for?
[09:56] <sivang> enrico : not yet :( I seem to not get it from my imap server..lemme check
[09:57] <sivang> ChrisH : Self Appointed Benovelent Dictator For Life
[09:57] <sivang> :)
[09:57] <sivang> or so the rumors say
[09:57] <sivang> :)
[09:57] <enrico> sivang: that's the official and confirmed expansion
[09:57] <sivang> enrico : really? since when? :)
[09:58] <ChrisH> sivang: uuuh, huh... wtf is "benovelent"?
[09:58] <enrico> Since one of mako's Traffics that mentioned it :)
[09:58] <enrico> !dict benevolent
[09:58] <enrico> Oh, no bot
[09:58] <sivang> supposed to be?
[09:58] <sivang> (bot)
[09:58] <enrico> Having a disposition to do good; possessing or manifesting
[09:58] <enrico>      love to mankind, and a desire to promote their prosperity and
[09:58] <enrico>      happiness; disposed to give to good objects; kind;
[09:58] <enrico>      charitable.
[09:58] <enrico> sivang: some IRC channels have an IRC robot that replies to commands like that one
[09:58] <enrico> They may be handy
[09:59] <sivang> dpkg is amazing
[09:59] <sivang> I once talked hebrew into it,
[09:59] <sivang> it answered meaningfully :)
[09:59] <sivang> But then some people over at #debian told me that is' feeding off google in some intellegent way..
[09:59] <enrico> My acronym expansion finder didn't find anything for "sabdfl", though.  It's a bit too long for its database
[09:59] <enrico> Oh, that's smart!
[10:00] <sivang> do you think dpkg and the other bots are written in lisp?
[10:00] <enrico> sivang: dunno
[10:00] <enrico> I know of supybot, which is written in python
[10:00] <sivang> ah python....that snake again
[10:00] <sivang> :)
[10:01] <enrico> ChrisH: my acronym generator found an expansion for "Chris"
[10:01] <enrico> "Che ha ricercato il Signore"  (he who looked for God), phrase found in the bible
[10:01] <enrico> "Che ha risuscitato il Signore"  (he who resurrecred God), phrase found in the bible
[10:02] <sivang> enrico : The ASCII art got scrambled..
[10:02] <sivang> enrico : using thunderbird
[10:02] <enrico> sivang: darn!
[10:02] <sivang> yes
[10:02] <enrico> sivang: try a fixed-width font..
[10:05] <ChrisH> Hehe... what about "he who doesn't believe in god?". :)
[10:09] <enrico> ChrisH: oh, you can make "Che ha rinnegato il Signore": he who denied God
[10:10] <ChrisH> Nice... :)
[10:10] <enrico> 18 lines of perl including comments and empty lines
[10:10] <ChrisH> enrico: I remember I saw such a bullshit acronym generator on the web once.
[10:10] <enrico> ChrisH: Oh, I have something super
[10:11] <enrico> ChrisH: http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/polygen_1.0.6.orig.tar.gz
[10:11] <enrico> I uploaded it to unstable today
[10:11] <enrico> You can download it and build the package (dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot)
[10:11] <enrico> Or, I can give you a web link
[10:12] <ChrisH> enrico: sounds like an eliza generator.
[10:12] <enrico> http://polygen.org/web/Payoff_II.522.0.html for M$-style payoffs
[10:13] <enrico> Unfortunately, the site is fully in italian
[10:13] <enrico> They had an English version, but they removed it
[10:13] <ChrisH> Be twice?
[10:14] <ChrisH> Don't move jungle?
[10:14] <ChrisH> *lol*
[10:14] <sivang> enrico : what is that?
[10:14] <enrico> They're going to add it again after the package hits unstable, I bet :)
[10:14] <enrico> sivang: the reverse of bison: you give it an EBNF grammar, and it generates randomly an instance of the language
[10:14] <sivang> wow
[10:14] <enrico> We can have a generator of FAQs:
[10:14] <enrico> Do you know how might I insert the 3D proxy to a login?
[10:14] <enrico> You should send the software of the SMTP provider of a cache over the tool but from Windows 9.4 or from the file inside Mac you should never get access over a parallel connection to turn off a serial icon.
[10:15] <enrico> Man, do you know how to delete from the kernel of the BIOS mousepad to a shell?
[10:15] <enrico> You should never download the tool to insert in a RO processor.
[10:15] <enrico> and so on... :)
[10:15] <ChrisH> Cool. Make it subversion-capable and let's seize working on the book. It can do it alone. :)
[10:16] <enrico> sivang: basically, it's a really advanced program that you can use to generate bullshit :)
[10:16] <sivang> what's a 3d proxy?
[10:16] <ChrisH> enrico: does it have a "microsoft bashes linux" or "sco sues torvalds" mode? Might be funny.
[10:16] <enrico> sivang: an automatically generated tecno-like silly thing
[10:16] <sivang> bison does th reverse? it takes the grammer and checks for valid phrases...
[10:17] <ChrisH> sivang: The output does not claim to make sense. It's just auto-bullshit.
[10:17] <enrico> ChrisH: it has various grammars, and it's farily easy to write a new one
[10:17] <enrico> I wrote a generator of social science papers:
[10:17] <enrico> Coddling a systematization: the prominent design to the tyrannical congress of congress.
[10:17] <enrico> The blanching of an accompanying: the operative disposition to the sound arrival of design.
[10:17] <enrico> A firm acting of scheme? Which future?
[10:17] <enrico> And so on :)
[10:17] <ChrisH> sivang: A grammar is used to define a language. If you want to parse a language you need a parser (like "bison"). The other way round you can have a program that wildly creates syntactically (not semantically = meaningful) sentences.
[10:18] <sivang> ChrisH : so I take the grammer which I normally feed into bison, and let a generator create random sentences that adhere that grammer rules?
[10:19] <enrico> sivang: yes, but it doesn't have the same input syntax as bison
[10:19] <enrico> sivang: it has an input syntax which is designed for support generating text, to control the probabilities of the different parts of the generated text and so on
[10:19] <sivang> enrico : EBNF <== is this how the bison grammer called? (or a general grammer for specifying ruls)
[10:20] <enrico> sivang: Extended Backus Naur Format
[10:20] <enrico> sivang: it's those grammars like:
[10:20] <enrico> animal := warthogs, hedgehog, groundhog
[10:20] <sivang> yes
[10:20] <sivang> Now I recall
[10:20] <enrico> adjective := warty, hoary, grumpy
[10:20] <enrico> ubuntu := adjective animal
[10:20] <sivang> ah actually it looks diffenet
[10:20] <sivang> sec.
[10:21] <enrico> (In polygen you can easily do things like matching the initials, thuogh :)
[10:23] <sivang> this is the lexical defitiontions?
[10:24] <enrico> sivang: the syntax definition
[10:25] <enrico> Maybe also the lexical definition, but I haven't used that term
[10:25] <sivang> this is what I worked with, this is fed into bison:
[10:25] <sivang> %
[10:25] <sivang> assignment : NAME '=' assignment
[10:25] <sivang>            | NAME '=' exp
[10:25] <sivang>            ;
[10:25] <sivang> exp        : exp '+' exp
[10:25] <sivang>            | exp '-' exp
[10:26] <sivang>            | exp '*' exp
[10:26] <sivang>            | exp '/' exp
[10:26] <sivang>            | '-' exp     %prec UMINUS
[10:26] <sivang>            | NAME
[10:26] <sivang> (or at least, I let bison process this)
[10:26] <enrico> Yes, polygen takes something similar
[10:26] <sivang> ok
[10:26] <enrico> You would also need to tell what is an exp and all the possible instances of NAME
[10:27] <sivang> yes
[10:27] <sivang> and give a default value
[10:27] <enrico> default value?
[10:27] <sivang> if it doesn't match anything 
[10:27] <enrico> Oh, it doesn't need to match: it just generates random text that fits in that grammar
[10:28] <enrico> So with that grammar you'd run it once and it'd tell you:
[10:28] <enrico> 3+5*1--3
[10:28] <enrico> You run it another time and it'd tell you:
[10:28] <sivang> Ah I see, cool :)
[10:28] <enrico> pippo=2*9
[10:28] <enrico> and so on :)
[10:30] <ChrisH> Does anyone know where the CD creator in Nautilus places the files? it seems to be broken here.
[10:30] <sivang> ChrisH : you need to tell it something, lemme check
[10:32] <ChrisH> sivang: I cancelled the creation of a CD/DVD an now I have an "unnamed folder" that cannot be renamed, removed or anything...
[10:33] <ChrisH> Now I don't even have a context menu. Something seems to be broken with it.
[10:34] <sivang> ChrisH : you
[10:34] <sivang> 've ALT+F2 : "nautilus-cd-creator" ?
[10:34] <sivang> and then chose "Open CD/DVD creatore" ?
[10:35] <enrico> ChrisH: else, install xdiskusage
[10:35] <enrico> ChrisH: or filelight
[10:35] <ChrisH> sivang: I know how to start it. But where does it collect the files to be burnt?
[10:35] <enrico> They tell you where disk space is consumed
[10:35] <sivang> ChrisH : it's supposed to be somewhere under you .gnome2 folder
[10:36] <enrico> I particularly like xdiskusage, as it's really tiny
[10:36] <sivang> very very nice
[10:37] <sivang> enrico : xdiskusage
[10:37] <ChrisH> can't find it :(
[10:37] <enrico> filelight is much cooler, thuogh (but it uses kde)
[10:38] <enrico> ChrisH: can't find xdiskusage or the Nautilus file?
[10:38] <ChrisH> enrico: the place where the nautilus-cd-burner places the files... because I cannot use it any more
[10:38] <enrico> ChrisH: you can also use "find ~ -mmin 60" to see the files modified in the last hour
[10:39] <sivang> ChrisH : it's symlinks.. erghgh
[10:39] <sivang> it doesn not create real file IMHO
[10:39] <ChrisH> "killall nautilus" and it works again... weird
[10:39] <ChrisH> sivang: looks like it just create symlinks or something like that
[10:40] <sivang> ChrisH : ah! that's a know bug I think
[10:40] <sivang> if not someone should enter it to the bugzilla,
[10:40] <sivang> I got so used to killall nautils to show files I copied into the system
[10:40] <sivang> :)
[10:42] <ChrisH> enrico: find didn't find anything :)
[10:44] <enrico> ChrisH: are you sure that what you're looking for actually exists?
[10:44] <enrico> You can also find in /var
[10:46] <ChrisH> enrico: it's probably there...
[10:47] <ChrisH> enrico: perhaps it's just collecting file names in RAM and reading them directly during the iso mastering... no idea
[11:15] <ChrisH> Hell! The CD creator took up 500 MB of RAM and died!
[11:15] <__daniel> hai
[11:15] <enrico> ChrisH: RAM??
[11:15] <__daniel> does anyone of you have problems logging into the wiki, too?
[11:15] <enrico> That's crazy
[11:16] <enrico> __daniel: I'm trying
[11:16] <sivang> ChrisH : nautilus is still nowhere stable
[11:16] <enrico> __daniel: the server has terminated sending data
[11:16] <__daniel> thanks enrico
[11:16] <__daniel> enrico: damn :-(
[11:17] <__daniel> enrico: just wanted to add a cool idea to it
[11:18] <ChrisH> sivang: Indeed. I should have stayed on KDE.
[11:18] <enrico> __daniel: post it to the list :)
[11:18] <__daniel> enrico: i was told to put it on the wiki first :-)
[11:19] <enrico> __daniel: but since that failed, go for the second option ;)
[11:19] <__daniel> enrico: i'll have to wait... it seems
[11:19] <sivang> ChrisH : still, I don't think I will go back to KDE
[11:19] <sivang> GNOME is far more inntuutive and automagical to me then KDE, especially in simple everyday tasks
[11:20] <sivang> __daniel : what's the idea? :)
[11:20] <ChrisH> sivang: somehow when I logged in a week ago the top panel disappeared. I needed to recreate it. Nothing was in there. When I added the menu I got two menus. And now it takes up to a minute before the top bar shows up.
[11:20] <__daniel> sivang: suggest thesises and projects for students to enhance ubuntu :-)
[11:21] <ChrisH> sivang: With Gnome it feels like I need to remove my .gnome2* stuff every week to be stable :(
[11:21] <__daniel> sivang: sabdfl liked it :-)
[11:21] <sivang> __daniel : very nice ! can non students participate? :)
[11:21] <__daniel> sivang: of course! :-)
[11:21] <sivang> ChrisH : Strange, I didn't bump into nothing like that, the worse I get, a decent killall or login in out fixes it..
[11:22] <__daniel> sivang: i was in a (constitutive) meeting of a unix working group on my university today and most would like to help out and do their thesis about it, but wouldn't know where to start, so i had the idea
[11:23] <__daniel> sivang: they'd devote 2*6 months of time :-)
[11:23] <enrico> Thesises are super-powerful things!
[11:23] <__daniel> :-)
[11:24] <__daniel> didnt know if the plural of thesis would even exist :-)
[11:24] <enrico> So it'd be like a service to tell people what they could do?
[11:24] <sivang> __daniel : I've always wanted to get in uni, still hasn't yet :)
[11:24] <__daniel> or make sure they know , they COULD do a change :-)
[11:25] <sivang> __daniel : that's very nice, how can someone not a student help out?
[11:26] <__daniel> sivang: they could check that site too
[11:26] <__daniel> i'm no ubuntu official, so i dont know
[11:27] <__daniel> sivang: i just started my uni project on something i always wanted
[11:27] <sivang> __daniel : what is it? :)
[11:27] <__daniel> sivang: a library for applications to make it possible to save user preferences on a server
[11:28] <sivang> __daniel : users preferences in the library?
[11:28] <__daniel> to not having to copy config files around
[11:29] <__daniel> if i finished it, apps can save/load the user preferences to/from the server
[11:29] <__daniel> :-)
[11:29] <sivang> Oh nice
[11:29] <__daniel> it's just an idea... don't know if ANYONE would implement in their app :-)
[11:29] <__daniel> coolest thing would be to hack up gconf to use it ;-)
[11:29] <__daniel> but that's not part of the thesis ;-)
[11:30] <__daniel> i'm glad my professor liked the idea
[11:30] <sivang> something liek domain controller? Please correct me if I'm wrong, don't redhat uses some kind of std unix tool to move around (roam) user profiels in a fedora session?
[11:31] <__daniel> well i didnt want to move files around or sniff on registry changes
[11:31] <__daniel> so now, it's just the library you add to your project and it'll work on linux/windows/... (when it's finished ;-))
[11:32] <__daniel> well that's the general idea... ;-)
[11:32] <sivang> wow nice
[11:32] <sivang> hi plovs
[11:32] <__daniel> hai plovs
[11:55] <enrico> hi plovs
[11:56] <__daniel> the ubuntu.com webserver guy isnt here, is he/she? :-)
[11:56] <enrico> __daniel: no, but you can tell me and I can try and ask in #ubuntu-devel
[11:56] <enrico> (or you can ask in #ubuntu-devel if you are into that channel)
[11:57] <__daniel> i asked if some of them also had the problem, but they didn't respond
[11:57] <__daniel> enrico: but maybe they'll listen to you ;-)
[11:58] <enrico> __daniel: I tried: let's see what happen
[12:00] <sivang> ah reply!
[12:00] <sivang> :)
[12:00] <Hoodster> Hi sivang!
[12:00] <sivang> Hey Hoodster! Whassup dude?
[12:00] <__daniel> :-)