| seb128 | ok ok | 12:00 |
|---|---|---|
| enrico | elmo: around? | 12:00 |
| seb128 | so go with the compatibility stuff | 12:00 |
| === jdub attempts to fix the NDEBUG assert b0rk | ||
| (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) hrm... gonna have to reboot | 12:19 | |
| (lamont/#ubuntu-devel) changing IP's will do that to you... | 12:19 | |
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| enrico | wiki login has been fixed | 12:30 |
| === enrico cheers elmo | ||
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| pitti | mdz: ping | 12:36 |
| seb128 | 'night | 12:37 |
| jdub | night seb128 | 12:37 |
| pitti | night seb128 | 12:37 |
| jdub | elmo: did you see my paste above? | 12:37 |
| __daniel | bye seb128 | 12:37 |
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| pitti | elmo: one last upload from chinstrap, because the mysql package was already there anyway. Sorry... | 12:51 |
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| elmo | jdub: err, yes, why is that a surprise? | 12:51 |
| elmo | your key isn't in the debian keyring? | 12:51 |
| elmo | pitti: why doesn't ftp work for you? is it just with this server or in general? | 12:51 |
| pitti | elmo: it's a general problem with my ISP | 12:51 |
| pitti | elmo: it works, but it is sloooooooooow | 12:51 |
| pitti | elmo: that's why I scp it onto another host and ftp from there | 12:51 |
| pitti | elmo: if chinstrap is to be avoided, I can also route it through my own server | 12:51 |
| elmo | pitti: ok - I just want to encourage people to test out the new upload daemon - if ftp is fux0red for you, you can use chinstrap | 12:51 |
| jdub | elmo: boh | 12:51 |
| pitti | elmo: tomorrow I have some smaller packages to fix, I will test it then | 12:51 |
| jdub | i thought putting those in DEFAULTS would default to ubuntu | 12:51 |
| jdub | bong | 12:51 |
| === jdub uses the other setting | ||
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| pitti | night | 12:58 |
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| doko | night | 01:19 |
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| lamont | maybe re-iping things wasn't the best timed act of the day... :-( | 01:22 |
| lamont | grumble. bounced mail. only about 60 messages though. :-( | 01:35 |
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| lucas_ | hi | 02:02 |
| lucas_ | somebody with some debian-cd knowledge ? | 02:02 |
| lucas_ | I need to build iso with software from (uni|multi)verse | 02:02 |
| lucas_ | it isn't supported, right ? | 02:02 |
| lucas_ | am I right when I think that the easiest way to fix this is to grep for "restricted" and see what was changed to add "restricted" support ? | 02:03 |
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| lamont | lucas_: I started with a copy of the CD, added files, replaced the Packages/Sources/Release files, and reburned the CD | 02:27 |
| lamont | the rune to make the ISO is "mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 4.10 i386 Bin-1' -o warty-install-i386-hacked.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table wherever-your-new-tree-is" | 02:28 |
| lamont | understanding what that means is left as an exercise. | 02:28 |
| === lamont built a warty install-dvd | ||
| lupus_ | is discover only called on install of ubuntu? | 02:34 |
| lupus_ | or each boot | 02:34 |
| jdub | only on install | 02:35 |
| jdub | during install | 02:35 |
| lupus_ | why only durring install? | 02:38 |
| lamont | lupus_: because warty doesn't use discover. | 02:40 |
| lamont | well, mostly | 02:40 |
| elmo | hotplug is better, basically and we're migrating to it | 02:41 |
| elmo | +even in the installer | 02:41 |
| lupus_ | ah so hotplug is not used in the installer at the moment | 02:41 |
| lupus_ | only discover | 02:41 |
| elmo | yeah | 02:44 |
| elmo | tho, that's already changed in hoary | 02:44 |
| lupus_ | so /etc/hotplug is for coldplugging and /etc/hotplug.d to have hotplugging? sorry I'm trying to understand how hardware is detected and configured | 03:00 |
| lupus_ | nm I'm wrong :) | 03:03 |
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| jdub | http://mail.nl.linux.org/humorix/2004-11/msg00002.html | 03:20 |
| === sladen chuckles | ||
| === ironwolf giggles | ||
| === lamont sleeps | ||
| lamont | jdub: heh | 03:39 |
| jdub | the final live cd looks brill | 03:49 |
| (sladen/#ubuntu-devel) "final" ? | 03:50 | |
| ironwolf | warty? yeah, it's pretty. | 03:50 |
| jdub | sladen: the release version, on the pretty printed cds :) | 03:52 |
| jdub | i didn't have the b/w to pull many live cd releases | 03:52 |
| lamont | ironwolf: did your order show up yet, btw? | 03:54 |
| ironwolf | lamont: no, only 3 days left too... | 03:54 |
| ironwolf | lamont: although I have had lots more local interest in them when they arrive. | 03:55 |
| eruin | blah, I can't rightclick files and create an archive anymore | 03:56 |
| jdub | vino + damage == rock! | 03:58 |
| lamont | well, night | 04:02 |
| jdub | later lamont | 04:02 |
| ironwolf | night lamont | 04:03 |
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| ironwolf | lamont around? | 05:00 |
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| fabbione | morning guys | 06:20 |
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| fabbione | lamont: ping | 07:55 |
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| pitti | Hi all | 08:38 |
| jdub | doko: woo! | 08:44 |
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| lifeless | jdub: what were you pinging about before ? | 08:55 |
| jdub | don't remember :) | 08:58 |
| jdub | oh | 08:58 |
| jdub | here's something though | 08:58 |
| jdub | baz register-archive -> do you ever register anything other than an archive? | 08:58 |
| lifeless | oh, ui names ? | 08:58 |
| lifeless | ie baz register ? | 08:58 |
| jdub | yeah | 08:58 |
| lifeless | sounds good, chuck it in the mockup UI :) | 08:59 |
| pitti | ping lamont | 08:59 |
| jdub | lifeless: also, what do you think about splitting that page up a bit? it's getting unwieldy | 08:59 |
| jdub | lifeless: happy to take an initial stab at it | 08:59 |
| lifeless | please do | 08:59 |
| pitti | elmo: here? | 09:03 |
| jdub | doko: ping? | 09:18 |
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| seb128 | morning | 09:39 |
| seb128 | jdub: #4092 is WONTFIX, right ? | 09:40 |
| jdub | yeah, atm | 09:41 |
| pitti | Hi seb128 | 09:42 |
| seb128 | hey pitti | 09:43 |
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| Kamion | I really must actually upload our modified debian-cd to hoary for this release | 10:24 |
| === mvo_ [~Michael@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | hey Kamion | 10:27 |
| fabbione | Kamion: kernel-wedge doesn't like symlinks :( | 10:27 |
| fabbione | things need to be copied in proper places for it to work | 10:27 |
| Kamion | can you elaborate? | 10:28 |
| Kamion | oh, make-links and clean | 10:28 |
| fabbione | sure... | 10:28 |
| Kamion | yeah, but dpkg-source doesn't much like symlinks in diffs either | 10:28 |
| Kamion | at best they'll get expanded into real files | 10:28 |
| fabbione | remeber we agreed on the dir structure of debian/d-i/<arch> ? | 10:28 |
| Kamion | so you might as well copy | 10:28 |
| Kamion | yes | 10:28 |
| fabbione | perfect.. to generate debian/control from control.stub, kernel-wedge accesses a bunch of files like modules/<arch>/ | 10:29 |
| fabbione | the original idea was to symlink those from the top level directory | 10:29 |
| fabbione | but kernel-wedge just delete the symlinks | 10:29 |
| fabbione | so they need to be copied and removed | 10:29 |
| fabbione | in order to keep the top level dir clean | 10:29 |
| fabbione | perhaps it would be nice for kernel-wedge to understand symlinks | 10:30 |
| Kamion | right, but all the modules/<arch> directories are separate anyway | 10:30 |
| Kamion | you might as well just copy them | 10:30 |
| fabbione | no big deal.. just some extra cp rm work | 10:30 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yes.. i agree. i don't want to clutter the top level dir. | 10:30 |
| fabbione | since it is the top level of the kernel | 10:30 |
| fabbione | and still other files need to be copied per arch | 10:30 |
| fabbione | and this will also keep the merging easier | 10:31 |
| mdz | pitti: pong | 10:39 |
| === jvw [jeroen@145.97.220.255] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | mdz: Hi! | 10:40 |
| pitti | mdz: can you please take a look at the mysql USN? | 10:40 |
| pitti | mdz: I try to reach lamont or elmo to investigate the missing build from ppc, but as soon as this is sorted out, I can publish it | 10:40 |
| mdz | pitti: ok | 10:40 |
| mdz | pitti: you can reproduce the problem, right? it is not just me? | 10:40 |
| pitti | mdz: "the problem" ==? | 10:41 |
| mdz | I straced it and it is not calling mlock(2) | 10:41 |
| mdz | pitti: gpg | 10:41 |
| pitti | mdz: ah | 10:41 |
| pitti | mdz: I followed up the bug report | 10:41 |
| pitti | mdz: it's a buildd problem | 10:41 |
| mdz | yes, very strange | 10:41 |
| pitti | mdz: it works fine when I build it on my machine and I investigated the cause of the problem | 10:41 |
| pitti | mdz: luckily the warty version was built correctly | 10:41 |
| mdz | I saw | 10:41 |
| mdz | pitti: what do you want me to look at for mysql? | 10:42 |
| pitti | mdz: just the USN text | 10:42 |
| mdz | I sent email to the list regarding the diffs | 10:42 |
| mdz | ok | 10:42 |
| fabbione | i think some buildd chroots are having problems | 10:43 |
| pitti | mdz: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/usn-mysql.txt | 10:43 |
| fabbione | like having too many apt entries | 10:43 |
| pitti | fabbione: so far I only had problems with amd64, it's my first ppc failure | 10:43 |
| mdz | pitti: it should note explicitly that -0837 and -0956 require an authenticated mysql user in order to exploit | 10:43 |
| fabbione | pitti: i noticed gdb has been built | 10:44 |
| fabbione | but using universe packages | 10:44 |
| fabbione | that means that some stuff might be actually building for mistake | 10:44 |
| fabbione | (talking about hoary) | 10:44 |
| === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-2-60.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lucas_ | Hi | 10:44 |
| lucas_ | I've always been confused by "warty-updates" vs "warty" dists on the mirror | 10:45 |
| === mvo_ [~Michael@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lucas_ | from what I understand, some updates go in "warty", but not all of them ? | 10:45 |
| lucas_ | or is "warty" totally frozen ? | 10:45 |
| daniels | warty's totally frozen | 10:45 |
| lucas_ | ok | 10:45 |
| pitti | mdz: fixed | 10:46 |
| seb128 | lucas_: changes in warty are mainly security fixes | 10:48 |
| lucas_ | those go in warty-security right ? | 10:48 |
| seb128 | yes | 10:49 |
| seb128 | why ? | 10:49 |
| mdz | lucas_: as described on the website, stable releases receive only security fixes and other critical bug fixes | 10:55 |
| mdz | pitti: the advisory text needs a few more changes, I will send you an updated version | 10:56 |
| pitti | mdz: okay, thanks | 10:56 |
| lucas_ | yup, my question was about building warty CDs that include the security/bug fixes | 10:57 |
| lucas_ | but I need to read more debian-cd code | 10:57 |
| Kamion | (I'm only limited help here because I've never actually tried doing that ...) | 10:57 |
| lucas_ | ok, I think I'll start by building CDs based on released warty packages, ignoring updates | 10:58 |
| Kamion | that will certainly be easier | 11:00 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lucas_ | no plans to release ubuntu 4.10r(0..n) ? | 11:00 |
| Kamion | don't believe so | 11:00 |
| lucas_ | ok | 11:01 |
| smurfix | lucas_: not much point, with a 6-month release schedule. This isn't Debian. ;) | 11:01 |
| lucas_ | yeah I know, I was just asking because it would have helped me a lot ;) | 11:02 |
| Kamion | you could investigate update-cd I guess, but that's *really* never been tested with Ubuntu | 11:02 |
| lucas_ | ok | 11:02 |
| lucas_ | the easiest would probably be to write a tool that would merge warty-update and warty-security inside warty | 11:07 |
| lucas_ | so there's no need to hack debian-cd | 11:07 |
| lucas_ | (merge in the local mirror) | 11:07 |
| seb128 | lucas_: do you really need the security updates on the CD ? | 11:09 |
| lucas_ | it's not high priority, but it would be better | 11:09 |
| lucas_ | some of my "customers" don't have broadband | 11:10 |
| Kamion | lucas_: that's a bit scary; debian-cd *is* capable of reading multiple Packages files in general so it shouldn't be necessary | 11:10 |
| lucas_ | don't forget grenoble != la doua ;) | 11:10 |
| lucas_ | ok | 11:10 |
| seb128 | lucas_: people who have a network connection just have to download these updates, what's the security issue with people who don't have a network connection ? | 11:10 |
| lucas_ | the problem is for people who have a network connection but not broadband | 11:11 |
| seb128 | lucas_: bah, just wondering if a student with no connection really needs the security updates | 11:11 |
| seb128 | lucas_: security updates already are that big ? | 11:11 |
| lucas_ | not sure | 11:11 |
| lucas_ | depends on what is updated ;) | 11:11 |
| mdz | lucas_: we have talked about producing CDs containing only security updates | 11:12 |
| Kamion | seb128: yes, often | 11:12 |
| seb128 | ok | 11:12 |
| mdz | seb128: xfree86 has been updated, e.g. | 11:12 |
| seb128 | right | 11:12 |
| mdz | lucas_: that is what I recommend that you do, if you are interested in pursuing this | 11:12 |
| jdub | doko: around? | 11:12 |
| lucas_ | mdz: it might be difficult regarding my user base | 11:13 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c7f.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| __daniel | hai | 11:13 |
| lucas_ | well, that's not high priority anyway | 11:13 |
| lucas_ | bbl | 11:14 |
| Kamion | mdz: lucas_ is doing a single CD with a number of other modifications anyway | 11:21 |
| Kamion | mdz: it makes little sense for him to waste time creating a separate security update CD | 11:22 |
| mdz | Kamion: except that the work would be reusable | 11:24 |
| Kamion | sure, but it's not what his userbase wants | 11:25 |
| Kamion | see ubuntu-devel@ | 11:26 |
| Kamion | there's no point trying to get reusable work out of somebody when it's not usable for them | 11:26 |
| Kamion | mdz: oh, if you didn't notice, I moved mozilla-browser/mozilla-psm from ship to supported yesterday | 11:28 |
| Kamion | there seemed to be reasonable consensus for at least that step | 11:28 |
| mdz | that's fine by me | 11:29 |
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| elmo | % linda *.changes | 11:36 |
| elmo | Happy birthday to me! | 11:36 |
| elmo | I'm 3 today! | 11:36 |
| elmo | oh dear | 11:36 |
| mdz | Kamion: his userbase will eventually need to download security updates; creating an updated CD doesn't solve that problem at all | 11:38 |
| mdz | the security update CD approach has the clear advantage of actually working on an ongoing basis | 11:38 |
| Kamion | it'll be no worse than for our own CDs though | 11:38 |
| Kamion | I don't think he has a problem either with his userbase having to download some updates or with updating his CD every so often | 11:39 |
| Kamion | elmo: linda scares me | 11:40 |
| === rburton [~ross@84.12.27.219] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | ok, I guess I don't understand the use case then | 11:40 |
| pitti | elmo: can you please look why the mysql security update did not built on ppc? | 11:41 |
| elmo | err, it looks like lamont disabled warty-security on the powerpc buildds by mistake | 11:44 |
| pitti | elmo: can you fix that or shall I wait for lamont? | 11:44 |
| elmo | I'll have a quick look in a bit | 11:44 |
| pitti | thank | 11:44 |
| pitti | s | 11:44 |
| Kamion | mdz: he's lending CDs to other students in his student union who aren't very computer-knowledgeable; he needs to remove/add some packages to provide for the students' special needs, and he needs to make some changes to the installer too | 11:45 |
| Kamion | mdz: the ones that can't download security updates are the ones who don't have an internet connection, so that's not such a big deal | 11:45 |
| Kamion | mdz: I think his rationale for updating the CD with security updates is just that he might as well, it's a nice-to-have | 11:45 |
| mdz | in that case, I don't see the point of bothering with security updates at all | 11:45 |
| mdz | ok | 11:46 |
| Kamion | I can certainly see the rationale; if you're going to build a CD now, it might as well be current | 11:47 |
| pitti | mdz: oh, have a happy holiday! :-) | 11:48 |
| mdz | thanks | 11:48 |
| pitti | mdz: thanksgiving is another opportunity to stuff one's stomach with far too much food, right? | 11:48 |
| mdz | correct | 11:49 |
| pitti | mdz: enjoy :-)) | 11:49 |
| fabbione | hehehe | 11:49 |
| elmo | # list of distributions that buildd should take packages from | 11:56 |
| elmo | @take_from_dists = qw(stable frozen unstable); | 11:56 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-32-105.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo | *boggle* | 11:56 |
| Kamion | hooray for buildd | 11:57 |
| daniels | elmo: looks like someone installed a new w-b, heh | 11:57 |
| Kamion | yeesh, pciutils still has no DH_COMPAT or debian/compat? bleh | 11:58 |
| daniels | elmo: do you have access to the ia64 thingies? | 11:58 |
| elmo | daniels: blink - of course? | 11:59 |
| daniels | elmo: do you care to spin a build around them, or should I harass lamont when he wakes? | 11:59 |
| === George^Deka [~george@093.b.008.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo | harass lamont to get debootstrap working, then I can create a hoary chroot on the port box | 12:01 |
| daniels | elmo: k, cheers | 12:01 |
| daniels | lamont: harass, harass, p.u.c/~daniels/xorg, etc | 12:01 |
| elmo | pitti: ok, should be fixed now | 12:02 |
| pitti | elmo: thanks | 12:02 |
| elmo | (or at least the powerpc buildds will start building things now) | 12:02 |
| pitti | elmo: it will automatically arrive at rookery now? | 12:02 |
| pitti | elmo: or must there be a trigger of some kind? | 12:02 |
| mdz | night, all | 12:02 |
| pitti | night mdz | 12:02 |
| seb128 | 'night mdz | 12:02 |
| Kamion | sleep well | 12:02 |
| elmo | pitti: err, jackass you mean? yes | 12:03 |
| daniels | mdz: night | 12:03 |
| pitti | elmo: yes, of course. jackass | 12:03 |
| Mithrandir | why doesn't nautilus allow one to open a folder multiple times on multiple desktops? | 12:04 |
| seb128 | bug ? | 12:06 |
| jdub | Mithrandir: you can in browse mode; spatial is spatial. | 12:06 |
| seb128 | oh, doesn't | 12:06 |
| seb128 | I misread | 12:06 |
| jdub | Mithrandir: the window *is* the folder. | 12:06 |
| Mithrandir | jdub: but the window is on another desktop. | 12:06 |
| Mithrandir | jdub: it means I have to race xpdf to make it open on the right desktop. | 12:07 |
| seb128 | ? | 12:07 |
| seb128 | what are you trying to open/start, and how ? | 12:07 |
| jdub | Mithrandir: you're saying that the window is open, and you try to open it again, but it does nothing (because it's already open on the other desktop)? | 12:07 |
| Mithrandir | jdub: no, it moves me to the other desktop. | 12:08 |
| Mithrandir | which is totally surprising. | 12:08 |
| seb128 | it should move the window on the current one | 12:08 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: agreed. | 12:08 |
| seb128 | it does here | 12:08 |
| Mithrandir | not here, but I'm using openbox. | 12:08 |
| seb128 | oh, so probably an openbox bug | 12:09 |
| jdub | it does here too | 12:09 |
| pitti | elmo: $ ps aux|grep ntpd | 12:17 |
| pitti | ntp 2052 0.0 0.4 3516 3516 ? SLs 12:16 0:00 ./ntpd | 12:17 |
| pitti | elmo: :-) | 12:17 |
| === gicmo [~gicmo@sonynb3.fmi.uni-passau.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo | pitti: sweet thanks | 12:19 |
| gicmo | hi | 12:19 |
| pitti | elmo: well, it needs some tweaks (to work also on non-cap kernels and such), but it works in principle | 12:19 |
| daniels | elmo: so is davis fully set up to be abused? | 12:20 |
| elmo | pitti: next I need you to fix... ssh, cron, klogd, sylogd, postfix and getty.. kthxbye | 12:20 |
| elmo | ;-) | 12:20 |
| elmo | daniels: AFAIK, yeah | 12:20 |
| pitti | elmo: ssh? easy, it just could lack a _little_ functionality... | 12:20 |
| === pitti grins | ||
| Kamion | *ahem* | 12:20 |
| pitti | elmo: btw, syslogd? | 12:20 |
| pitti | elmo: I fixed that yesterday | 12:21 |
| === nmf [~nmf@213.30.75.8] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo | pitti: both syslogd and klogd? | 12:21 |
| pitti | elmo: no, it's impossible for klogd | 12:21 |
| pitti | elmo: klogd needs CAP_SYS_ADMIN, which is equivalent to root | 12:22 |
| pitti | elmo: the odd thing is, you cannot open /proc/kmsg as root and read from the descriptor as user | 12:22 |
| pitti | elmo: this works for normal files, but not for /proc/kmsg | 12:22 |
| pitti | elmo: with the current kernel there's nothing I can do | 12:22 |
| elmo | oh well.. nice for syslogd anyways | 12:23 |
| elmo | s/for/to get/ | 12:23 |
| daniels | elmo: cool | 12:24 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | -rw-rw-r-- 1 cjwatson cdimage 636405760 Nov 24 08:49 20041124/hoary-install-powerpc.iso | 12:33 |
| Kamion | -rw-rw-r-- 1 cjwatson cdimage 625797120 Nov 25 08:49 20041125/hoary-install-powerpc.iso | 12:33 |
| Kamion | \o/ | 12:33 |
| daniels | Kamion: congrats :) | 12:34 |
| daniels | Kamion: how did you shave that much off? | 12:34 |
| Kamion | mozilla-browser | 12:35 |
| daniels | ahr | 12:35 |
| daniels | elmo: btw, would it be possible to get access to an ia64 port box once lamont makes chroots work and stuff? | 12:36 |
| elmo | sure | 12:36 |
| elmo | I just need working debootstrap | 12:36 |
| Kamion | yeah, waiting on gcc-3.4 | 12:36 |
| daniels | elmo: awesome, thanks | 12:37 |
| elmo | oh, ok, thought Lamont had bodged that | 12:37 |
| Kamion | think it's the last thing left to do | 12:37 |
| elmo | and why on earth do.. oh libgcc | 12:37 |
| === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | at least, it was last time I heard | 12:37 |
| Kamion | elmo: yeah | 12:37 |
| Kamion | I'm kind of refusing to do debootstrap until I can do it automatically from germinate output :-/ | 12:37 |
| Kamion | lamont has a hacked script though I believe, if you want to ask him for it | 12:38 |
| elmo | no, that's fair enough | 12:39 |
| Kamion | anyone object to me adding pciutils-udeb to the installer seed? | 12:39 |
| daniels | Kamion: seems eminently sensible | 12:45 |
| elmo | daniels: btw, don't forget to add that fd candy to the appopriate seed | 12:46 |
| elmo | seb128: you too for gnome-python-extras | 12:46 |
| elmo | doko: and you too for zope | 12:46 |
| seb128 | ok | 12:46 |
| daniels | elmo: good catch | 12:47 |
| === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | jdub: btw. I've mailed the hotplug-ng and udevsend/udevd guys to see what they think the future should be | 12:49 |
| jdub | elmo, daniels: do we actually want the fd candy in any of the seeds? | 12:49 |
| jdub | Keybuk: rad | 12:49 |
| daniels | jdub: i put fdclock/xcompmgr/transset in supported | 12:49 |
| daniels | jdub: fdclock might be sorta kinda neat, but the compmgr is really just too slow | 12:50 |
| jdub | daniels: i don't think there's any reason to support them | 12:50 |
| Keybuk | jdub: I also sent them grepmap as a "here's the C modules.*map parser for you" :) | 12:50 |
| daniels | jdub: oh? | 12:50 |
| daniels | jdub: i think enough people will want to use them to support them | 12:51 |
| daniels | jdub: but not enough, and it's not general-purpose enough, to ship them per default | 12:51 |
| daniels | jdub: but, your call | 12:51 |
| elmo | yes, sorry, please remember when I say "add to the appropriate seed" there's a hidden subtext of "and get sign off for it, if you need to" :-P | 12:51 |
| jdub | yeah, these things should be added to the seed proposals page | 12:52 |
| jdub | daniels: they're not useful to support though, surely they're fine for universe | 12:52 |
| daniels | jdub: done | 12:53 |
| jdub | daniels: please put them on the proposals page though, we may come back to it | 12:53 |
| daniels | jdub: k | 12:54 |
| jdub | anyone mind if i patch out the openoffice.org kde stuff, so we can get a build? | 12:56 |
| === jdub hasn't got pong from doko | ||
| daniels | oh frig, this means I need to edit the wiki | 12:58 |
| elmo | god I would KILL for sysklogd to use fricking logrotate | 12:59 |
| jdub | far out | 01:01 |
| jdub | 171MB | 01:01 |
| rburton | daniels: i hear you are off to see mallum on monday | 01:02 |
| daniels | rburton: i hear you are too! | 01:02 |
| rburton | daniels: indeed. want to meet at victoria? | 01:02 |
| daniels | rburton: rockin' | 01:03 |
| daniels | rburton: easy to get to from south ken? | 01:03 |
| rburton | yeah, along on the circle for a bit | 01:03 |
| rburton | or the district. yellow or green. | 01:03 |
| daniels | swoit | 01:03 |
| daniels | ahr, right | 01:03 |
| daniels | yeah | 01:03 |
| daniels | which means it's easy from earl's court also -- phat | 01:04 |
| rburton | daniels: what time were you planning on going? | 01:04 |
| daniels | rburton: *shrug*, whenever | 01:04 |
| haggai | jdub: sure. I was thinking we're gonna have problems sometime with OOo needing GTK and KDE libs to build | 01:05 |
| daniels | haggai: availability isn't a huge problem, it's just that that would drag kde into main | 01:06 |
| haggai | jdub: I want to split some of the -dev sort of headers out and make an installable .deb from them but like everything with OOo it takes ages & ages to do | 01:06 |
| haggai | daniels: but that would suit KDE users ;) | 01:06 |
| Kamion | we could imaginably end up stripping out the KDE build-dep for Ubuntu; it wouldn't be the first package we've done that for ... | 01:06 |
| jdub | yeah, that's the main issue | 01:07 |
| fabbione | elmo: (wishlist) any eta for sparc.u.c = | 01:07 |
| Kamion | life will be easier once we have community maintenance for KDE | 01:07 |
| jdub | atm we can't build it because kdelibs4-dev isn't in universe | 01:07 |
| fabbione | s/=/? | 01:07 |
| jdub | Kamion: but that doesn't necessarily mean kde in main :) | 01:07 |
| haggai | is there any way we can tell if we're building for Ubuntu? We have a lot of optional stuff in the pkgs controlled by DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS and it would be handy if we could do the same with the KDE bits too | 01:07 |
| _rene_ | yeah, good idea | 01:07 |
| Kamion | haggai: nope, we just upload a *ubuntuN version | 01:07 |
| daniels | Kamion: is it worth setting a default DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="ubuntu"? | 01:08 |
| Kamion | although having our changes integrated that way could make life easier | 01:08 |
| Kamion | daniels: users rebuilding our source packages won't set that | 01:08 |
| haggai | daniels: yeah, might be a good idea | 01:08 |
| daniels | Kamion: like, within dpkg-buildpackage, or /etc/environment, or something | 01:08 |
| elmo | fabbione: I'm trying to ping sabdfl about sparc boxes - I'd really like to know if we're going to do that first | 01:08 |
| Kamion | that's always the problem with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS and similar; they can only be used for optional features, not what the buildd needs | 01:08 |
| Kamion | daniels: EWWW | 01:09 |
| daniels | Kamion: (sorry) | 01:09 |
| Kamion | daniels: (what if somebody wants to build the Debian source package on Ubuntu?) | 01:09 |
| daniels | Kamion: (good question) | 01:09 |
| jdub | (stop whispering) | 01:09 |
| Kamion | source packages pretty much have to be self-contained, unfortunately | 01:09 |
| daniels | Kamion: (of course, dpkg-buildpackage could only set D_B_O if the source version contained 'ubuntu' ...) | 01:09 |
| haggai | so what about adding some sort of DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS+=ubuntu in debian/rules? | 01:09 |
| haggai | (as an ubuntu-only patch) | 01:10 |
| Kamion | haggai: if our diff were just that one line, that'd rock | 01:10 |
| haggai | Kamion: that's my idea | 01:10 |
| rburton | daniels: meet at victoria train station, around platforms 1-8, about 11:30-40? there is a train at 11:53 | 01:10 |
| daniels | Kamion: to every package? | 01:10 |
| daniels | rburton: sounds awesome | 01:10 |
| Kamion | not sure DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is *quite* the right place, but anyway | 01:10 |
| jdub | haggai: what would the kde package have in it, if we did that? | 01:10 |
| _rene_ | jdub: we could just disable it | 01:10 |
| Kamion | I think I'd prefer DEB_DISTRIBUTION or something | 01:10 |
| haggai | the advantage of DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS+= means you can build the ubuntu variant on Debian.. :) | 01:10 |
| _rene_ | jdub: -Nopenoffice.org-kde etc | 01:11 |
| rburton | daniels: sweet. mail me your mobile so i can find you when you are lost ;) | 01:11 |
| daniels | rburton: heh :) | 01:11 |
| Kamion | yeah, just trying to avoid overloading DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS itself | 01:11 |
| fabbione | elmo: didn't we agree that i was going to offer "main" in an unofficial archive and that if the port will take off, we were going to buy buildd? | 01:11 |
| _rene_ | jdub: so we could make -lde not even built | 01:11 |
| daniels | rburton: sent | 01:11 |
| Kamion | _rene_: or generate the control file | 01:11 |
| elmo | oh, maybe we did. blah, my brain sucks | 01:11 |
| Kamion | so that -kde isn't in the .dsc either | 01:11 |
| fabbione | elmo: because i am already building the "golden debs" for main at this stage... | 01:11 |
| jdub | _rene_: ahr :) | 01:12 |
| jdub | _rene_: handy | 01:12 |
| fabbione | elmo: and when they will finish i can add universe & co. | 01:12 |
| _rene_ | jdub: we actually do that now like this with the java/nonjava flag | 01:12 |
| daniels | thom: kaping | 01:13 |
| haggai | Kamion: we actually generate the control file anyway so yeah we could take it out but I think just using -Nopenoffice.org-kde, like we do for the optional -java pkg, should be enough | 01:14 |
| elmo | fabbione: okay, I'll try and have a look at doing s.u.c in the next couple of days - it has to be below a few other things in my todo list tho | 01:14 |
| fabbione | elmo: sure... that will be more than perfect | 01:14 |
| _rene_ | hmm. that still leaves the builddep, though ;-) | 01:15 |
| fabbione | elmo: when you will be ready to test the setup i will send you the gpg key for the buildd | 01:15 |
| fabbione | elmo: if you don't mind i want to keep them separate | 01:15 |
| haggai | _rene_: oh, yeah good point | 01:16 |
| haggai | _rene_: we can always do our trick of depending on something in the distro :) | 01:16 |
| haggai | _rene_: like the woody bp | 01:16 |
| elmo | fabbione: of course - tho, if we go ahead with the port, I think one of the things we do when we get our buildds, is rebuild the world on them ? | 01:16 |
| _rene_ | ah, yeah | 01:16 |
| haggai | Build-depends: kdelibs | ubuntu-somthing | 01:16 |
| rburton | daniels: where did you send the mail? it's not here yet | 01:16 |
| _rene_ | kdelibs4-dev | some-ubuntu-stuff | 01:16 |
| daniels | rburton: rburton@d.o? | 01:17 |
| jdub | haggai: oof. :) | 01:17 |
| rburton | daniels: ross@ | 01:17 |
| daniels | ... which just bounced, rock on | 01:17 |
| _rene_ | jdub: works, we did that already with woody and dpkg-dev ;-) | 01:17 |
| haggai | jdub: you haven't seen all our hacky^W neat stuff for our woody backport from the same OOo source? :) | 01:17 |
| fabbione | elmo: we can still use my "golden debs" to start with | 01:17 |
| jdub | haggai: i saw the 171MB download and turned back :) | 01:17 |
| daniels | rburton: try that | 01:17 |
| fabbione | elmo: there is no point in starting from scratch again | 01:17 |
| _rene_ | jdub: heh | 01:18 |
| fabbione | elmo: i can already bootstrap ubuntu sparc chroots | 01:18 |
| haggai | jdub: ok, you failed the real h4ck3r test then | 01:18 |
| jdub | heh | 01:18 |
| fabbione | elmo: and with a bit of love we might be able to install ubuntu on them directly ;) | 01:18 |
| jdub | .au has lots of real hackers :) | 01:18 |
| jdub | we just don't ahve a lot of real bandwidth :) | 01:18 |
| fabbione | jdub: s/real/fake/ | 01:18 |
| fabbione | ;) | 01:19 |
| daniels | we don't have much fake bandwidth, either | 01:19 |
| fabbione | daniels: well it was for the hackers | 01:21 |
| fabbione | daniels: mtools is another FTBFS from xlibs split :( i uploaded the fix.. mind to keep an eye on it? | 01:22 |
| daniels | fabbione: sure | 01:23 |
| fabbione | daniels: where is xorg crack? :P | 01:23 |
| daniels | fabbione: concordia has finished (like 20min ago), davis has just started -dbg, and catsby (my laptop) is meandering through | 01:25 |
| fabbione | davis ? | 01:25 |
| fabbione | ia64? | 01:25 |
| elmo | davis is adare | 01:25 |
| daniels | nope, new powerpc port box | 01:25 |
| elmo | er | 01:25 |
| fabbione | ah ok | 01:25 |
| daniels | adare's motd told me to use davis for chroot builds, so I did | 01:25 |
| elmo | davis is powerpc, it replaces adare | 01:25 |
| elmo | halley is the ia64 port box, but it doesn't have a hoary chroot yet | 01:25 |
| Kamion | haggai: something in the distro> that's really sick and twisted ;) | 01:26 |
| fabbione | ok | 01:26 |
| fabbione | thanks | 01:26 |
| _rene_ | Kamion: you haven't seen the foo | dpkg-dev (<< something) builddeps, have you? ;-) | 01:28 |
| lupus_ | libgnome2-common_2.8.0-5ubuntu1_all.deb the 5=debian release? and the 1=ubuntu release? or how does the versioning system work? | 01:28 |
| jdub | night all | 01:28 |
| bob2 | 'night jdub | 01:28 |
| daniels | jdub: 'nacht | 01:28 |
| daniels | _rene_: oh man, that's hideous | 01:29 |
| _rene_ | daniels: hackish, but works | 01:29 |
| Kamion | _rene_: I think I noticed them once and RAN AWAY SCREAMING | 01:29 |
| Kamion | lupus_: first Ubuntu revision on top of 2.8.0-5 | 01:30 |
| === fabbione sighs | ||
| _rene_ | Kamion: :) | 01:31 |
| fabbione | Kamion: we need to do a really hackish thing to merge the udeb creation :( | 01:31 |
| Kamion | fabbione: oh? | 01:31 |
| fabbione | Kamion: because the install target doesn't actually install in debian/<pkgname> (that i was hoping for) | 01:31 |
| daniels | fabbione: what's mtools doing with libxau?!? | 01:31 |
| fabbione | Kamion: and later binary-arch calls make-kpkg to create the debs, that are than moved to the right place | 01:32 |
| Kamion | fabbione: which install target? | 01:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: you ask me? | 01:32 |
| fabbione | Kamion: then one in the top level debian/rules | 01:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: it FTBFS without | 01:32 |
| Kamion | fabbione: oh, you clearly have to run kernel-wedge after most of binary-arch is finished | 01:32 |
| daniels | fabbione: oh man | 01:33 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yep | 01:33 |
| fabbione | daniels: | 01:35 |
| fabbione | floppyd.c:28:23: X11/Xauth.h: No such file or directory | 01:35 |
| fabbione | floppyd.c: In function `do_auth': | 01:35 |
| === Kamion tries to find a solution to his network device detection problem that doesn't involve diverting modprobe | ||
| === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-14-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| seb128 | herzi: your testcase doesn't work and I think than bastien doesn't want to debug it | 01:43 |
| === trukulo [~mzarza@26.Red-81-45-239.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| herzi | well, it works on my machines, maybe it's locale-dependent? | 01:50 |
| seb128 | $ ./compile.sh | 01:50 |
| seb128 | gcc: -E required when input is from standard input | 01:50 |
| seb128 | here | 01:50 |
| seb128 | BTW don't bother to fix it, I've added a tarball to the BR | 01:51 |
| herzi | i saw that | 01:51 |
| herzi | it's good for non-english people to have this fixed | 01:51 |
| seb128 | yeah | 01:52 |
| seb128 | elmo: eog sync please | 02:11 |
| elmo | seb128: done | 02:11 |
| seb128 | thanks | 02:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: regarding the kernel-versions file | 02:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: the last entry is the build-dep field, that we don't need anymore, since we build everything from the same source | 02:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: problem is: if i leave a build-dep in there it finishes into debian/control | 02:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: if i remove it kernel-wedge install-files will fail a sanity check | 02:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: and i have 2 options to fix it: | 02:12 |
| fabbione | Kamion: a) patch kernel-wedge to be less anal in that sanity check | 02:12 |
| daniels | fabbione: if you want to give ubuntu4 a test run around sparc (p.u.c/~daniels/xorg), that would be cool | 02:12 |
| fabbione | Kamion: b) insert a fake build-dep in kernel-versions | 02:12 |
| fabbione | Kamion: fake as in writing for ex. tar | 02:13 |
| fabbione | Kamion: or something like that | 02:13 |
| === alerios [~alerios@201.245.164.174] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: it would take hours to build and don't worry about sparc until there is a need for it :-) | 02:13 |
| === alerios [~alerios@201.245.164.174] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Abandonando"] | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: what would you prefer? | 02:14 |
| fabbione | Kamion: the change in kernel-wedge would be limited to commands/install-files | 02:14 |
| fabbione | Kamion: the var is not even used.. just checked for len > 0 | 02:15 |
| daniels | fabbione: heh, ok | 02:15 |
| daniels | fabbione: waiting on lamont for an ia64 test build anyway | 02:15 |
| Kamion | fabbione: uh, wait a sec, I want to look at this carefully | 02:16 |
| fabbione | Kamion: sure | 02:16 |
| Kamion | fabbione: we must not break kernel-wedge in such a way that you can't build Debian's installer on Ubuntu any more | 02:16 |
| fabbione | Kamion: removing the sanity check shouldn't break | 02:17 |
| Kamion | yeah, but it sucks | 02:17 |
| fabbione | otherwise we need to patch gen-control | 02:17 |
| fabbione | or create a gen-control-ubuntu | 02:17 |
| Kamion | noooo | 02:17 |
| Kamion | this is why I said "wait a sec" | 02:17 |
| fabbione | eheh | 02:17 |
| Kamion | let's not do random things just to hack it into working; this should be done properly | 02:17 |
| fabbione | i agree.. that's why i am discussing it with you :-) | 02:18 |
| Kamion | ok | 02:18 |
| Kamion | I don't see this sanity check? | 02:18 |
| fabbione | ! length $builddep ) { | 02:18 |
| fabbione | in commands/install-files | 02:19 |
| Kamion | ah | 02:19 |
| Kamion | why not just not call gen-control? | 02:19 |
| Kamion | oh, no, you need it | 02:19 |
| fabbione | Kamion: because we need the control? ;) | 02:19 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091c7f.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| fabbione | kernel-wedge is correct assuming that there must be a build-dep | 02:20 |
| fabbione | it's our merge that goes against it | 02:20 |
| Kamion | hmmm | 02:21 |
| fabbione | actually... | 02:21 |
| fabbione | i think the best approach would be to change gen-control | 02:21 |
| Kamion | I don't think I'd object to changing install-files, actually | 02:21 |
| Kamion | that seems the most compatible approach | 02:21 |
| fabbione | or create an ubuntu copy of it | 02:22 |
| Kamion | no | 02:22 |
| Kamion | no copies | 02:22 |
| fabbione | hmm why not? | 02:22 |
| fabbione | it would make merge very simple | 02:22 |
| Kamion | have you heard the term "clone-and-hack"? | 02:22 |
| fabbione | hmmm no | 02:22 |
| Kamion | if we copy, we do not get the benefit of bug fixes | 02:22 |
| Kamion | it's not a complimentary term | 02:22 |
| fabbione | Kamion: let me see one thing | 02:23 |
| Kamion | what gen-control change were you thinking of? | 02:23 |
| fabbione | Kamion: well on our system should not add the entry in the Build-Dep field | 02:25 |
| fabbione | Kamion: otherwise you will get a source that build-dep on itseld | 02:25 |
| fabbione | itself binaries | 02:25 |
| Kamion | I don't like that, I'd much rather remove the check from install-files | 02:25 |
| Kamion | that seems fairly harmless, looking at it | 02:26 |
| fabbione | Kamion: otherwise how would you feel in NOT touching the code at all | 02:26 |
| Kamion | especially since gen-control does not perform that sanity check | 02:26 |
| fabbione | and just add a fake build-dep ? | 02:26 |
| Kamion | nah, let's remove the check, that's better | 02:26 |
| fabbione | ok.. do you want to do it, or should i? | 02:26 |
| Kamion | no point adding fake cruft to lots of kernel-versions files | 02:27 |
| fabbione | hmm no | 02:27 |
| fabbione | it's only on one line | 02:27 |
| Kamion | I've got the change here, will upload | 02:27 |
| fabbione | the Build-Dep | 02:27 |
| fabbione | ok thanks | 02:27 |
| Kamion | per-arch, remember | 02:27 |
| fabbione | not in this case | 02:27 |
| fabbione | it will add it to linux-source | 02:27 |
| fabbione | but ok... | 02:27 |
| fabbione | the change to the code is ok with me :-) | 02:28 |
| Kamion | um, you still have multiple kernel-versions files surely? | 02:28 |
| Kamion | I mean, you have to | 02:28 |
| fabbione | yes, but the gen-control changes only the Build-Dep to add the ones listed in kernel-versions | 02:28 |
| fabbione | anyway it's ok the change to the code :-) | 02:28 |
| Kamion | right, but if you were adding a fake build-dep you'd have to do that on every kernel-versions line; that's where the check was being applied | 02:29 |
| fabbione | oh yes | 02:29 |
| fabbione | i misunderstood you before :-) | 02:29 |
| Kamion | I'll talk to joeyh next time I remember, see if this can go upstream | 02:29 |
| fabbione | good idea | 02:30 |
| Kamion | uploaded, thanks | 02:30 |
| fabbione | thanks to you :-) | 02:30 |
| fabbione | i think i can give you the first -17 -> -18 interdiff tomorrow to create debs... | 02:30 |
| fabbione | tho there is still the versioning problem that i need evaluate | 02:31 |
| fabbione | if we are going to create newer or older udebs | 02:31 |
| Kamion | cooooooool | 02:31 |
| Kamion | udebs don't have an upgrade problem technically, but katie may hate you | 02:31 |
| fabbione | Kamion: i am taking my time to be as less intrusive as possible | 02:31 |
| fabbione | even if i don't fully understand the reason of this merge :-))) | 02:32 |
| Kamion | wouldn't it be a much newer version by default? | 02:32 |
| fabbione | imho it will make user's life more complicate with a bunch of extra kernel updates, only to change udebs | 02:32 |
| fabbione | Kamion: i didn't check.. i just had the flash while talking with you 3 seconds ago | 02:32 |
| Kamion | it's basically so that a kernel upgrade doesn't involve "build linux-source-2.6.8.1, wait, get Kamion to build linux-kernel-di-* so that the changes propagate to the installer" | 02:32 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yes.. i grok that :-) | 02:33 |
| Kamion | which can be important when we're doing stuff in a hurry, and mdz wants it for security uploads | 02:33 |
| fabbione | but on the other side | 02:33 |
| fabbione | "hey another kernel upgrade to fix the usb udev" ;) | 02:33 |
| Kamion | yep; I kind of regard that as "unlucky for running a development release" | 02:34 |
| Kamion | it'll be easier once our kernel package is in arch | 02:34 |
| fabbione | oh yeah... | 02:34 |
| fabbione | ehhehe | 02:34 |
| Kamion | then I can commit as I do stuff rather than uploading for every change | 02:34 |
| fabbione | linux-source-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1$ kernel-wedge install-files | 02:36 |
| fabbione | kernel-wedge copy-modules 2.6.8.1-3 386 2.6.8.1-3-386 | 02:36 |
| fabbione | kernel-wedge copy-firmware 2.6.8.1-3 386 2.6.8.1-3-386 | 02:36 |
| fabbione | kernel-wedge find-dups 2.6.8.1-3-386 | 02:36 |
| fabbione | fabbione@gordian:/usr/src/wartydevel/kernel/linux-source-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1$ | 02:36 |
| fabbione | sweet :-) | 02:36 |
| Kamion | bonus :) | 02:36 |
| fabbione | let see what it did :-) | 02:36 |
| fabbione | impressing | 02:36 |
| fabbione | it's working :-) | 02:37 |
| fabbione | Kamion: probably later this evening... | 02:37 |
| fabbione | i was expecting more problems | 02:37 |
| Kamion | nifty, nice work | 02:37 |
| === herzi [~herzi@d024229.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | xfs-modules-2.6.8.1-3-386-di_2.6.8.1-18_i386.udeb | 02:42 |
| fabbione | it almost work :-) | 02:42 |
| Kamion | that looks ok ... | 02:43 |
| === stratus [~stratus@200.198.184.97] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: yes.. all the udebs are ok... | 02:44 |
| fabbione | the debs aren't | 02:45 |
| fabbione | but it should be easy to do it nice and clean | 02:45 |
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| zul | gday | 03:14 |
| pitti | die, evil ntp root privileges, die! | 03:16 |
| tseng | mmm, openntpd | 03:16 |
| tseng | privelage seperation + no listening by default | 03:17 |
| pitti | tseng: I just uploaded a new ntp package which lets ntpd run as normal user | 03:17 |
| tseng | mm, nice. | 03:17 |
| elmo | by day, pitti is just another programmer - but by night he turns into the DEROOTER - a shadowy figure fighting the wars others fear to wage, rooting out (har har) evildoers who retain priviledges they don't deserve | 03:17 |
| === pitti hides the "slash root" axe | ||
| pitti | tseng: the funny thing is that it took me about half an hour to fix the code, and about one and a half to fix the broken init script handling | 03:19 |
| tseng | ew | 03:19 |
| smurfix | pitti: *sigh* yet more work for me. | 03:19 |
| tseng | so it now starts as root and drops? | 03:19 |
| fabbione | lol | 03:20 |
| pitti | smurfix: why, are you the Debian NTP team? | 03:20 |
| pitti | tseng: yes, it drops to ntp:ntp and only keeps CAP_SYS_TIME | 03:20 |
| smurfix | not quite "the", bu close. | 03:20 |
| fabbione | pitti: yes he is | 03:20 |
| tseng | great. | 03:20 |
| fabbione | smurfix: btw.. that mail about evdev | 03:20 |
| pitti | tseng: the code already kind of supported that, it just needed some tweaking | 03:20 |
| fabbione | smurfix: please discuss it either in ubuntu-devel or debian-x | 03:20 |
| pitti | tseng: the hard part was to get a smooth transition on package upgrading | 03:20 |
| fabbione | smurfix: i don't maintain X in ubuntu anymore :-D | 03:21 |
| smurfix | fabbione: OK | 03:21 |
| fabbione | smurfix: can't you see the difference yet? | 03:21 |
| fabbione | no caps lock.. | 03:21 |
| fabbione | no irritation to my skin | 03:21 |
| sivang | fabbione : who is ? | 03:21 |
| sivang | :) | 03:21 |
| fabbione | i don't wake up yelling at the elfloader | 03:21 |
| fabbione | sivang: daniel the kid | 03:22 |
| smurfix | fabbione: the relevant changhelog entry was yours, though, so I thought maybe you'd feel responsible. ;-) | 03:22 |
| fabbione | smurfix: i did only one change to make it more flexible for certain corner cases | 03:22 |
| fabbione | smurfix: not as default protocol | 03:22 |
| fabbione | but you can discuss it | 03:22 |
| fabbione | with enough arguments you can convince daniels | 03:23 |
| === smurfix needs to fix dasher so nobody needs to see more of his broken one-handed typing | ||
| pitti | smurfix: I sent the patch as a wishlist bug. Have fun with it :-) | 03:34 |
| smurfix | pitti: thanks. I guess. ;-) | 03:35 |
| Kamion | smurfix: one-handed typing> I don't want to know | 03:36 |
| smurfix | Kamion: read my blog... (or not) | 03:37 |
| === daniels returns from spasming on the ground at the mention of 'elfloader'. | ||
| daniels | smurfix: so! evdev as default, eh? sell me. | 03:42 |
| smurfix | daniels: (a) I like the ability to actually use the multiple buttons on mine. | 03:44 |
| daniels | smurfix: er, most people have working multi-button mice without evdev (by 'most people', I mean 'everyone not running Apple hardware') | 03:45 |
| smurfix | multi := >3 | 03:45 |
| Kamion | smurfix: ouch :( | 03:47 |
| smurfix | my lowly Explorer has five and I didn't even have to configure $BROWSER to use the additional ones as back+forward | 03:47 |
| smurfix | Kamion: my thoughts exactly. | 03:47 |
| smurfix | Kamion: I thought you didn't want to know :-/ | 03:47 |
| daniels | smurfix: so change to ExplorerPS/2 | 03:50 |
| fabbione | daniels: evdev seems to autodetect that | 03:50 |
| fabbione | [debian-ntp] Bug#282941: ntp-server: Please run ntpd as non-root | 03:51 |
| smurfix | daniels: why ask the poor user what mouse protocol he should use on his USB bus? | 03:51 |
| fabbione | tsk :-) | 03:51 |
| daniels | smurfix: yeah, I dunno whether it's safe for standard ImPS/2 or not; if it is, I'll make it the default | 03:52 |
| daniels | smurfix: unfortunately all I have here is my laptop, but if you want to do some research, it would be hugely appreciated (feel free to open a bug in Bugzilla, assigned to daniel.stone@canonical.com, status NEEDINFO) | 03:52 |
| daniels | smurfix: and yeah, I agree that asking a question like that is tremendously shit | 03:53 |
| smurfix | daniels: OK, will do. | 03:53 |
| daniels | cheers | 03:53 |
| === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| smurfix | daniels: #4106 | 03:59 |
| daniels | smurfix: thanks | 04:00 |
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| fabbione | Kamion: testing a full build now :-) | 04:27 |
| fabbione | ccache orgy :-) | 04:31 |
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| daniels | http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/releases/gst-plugins/0.8.6.html <- polypaudio support | 04:43 |
| seb128 | they have finally release 0.8.6 ? | 04:44 |
| daniels | yahuh | 04:44 |
| daniels | to be fair, they were blocked for about four or five days on fd.o | 04:45 |
| lifeless | rock | 04:46 |
| elmo | have polypaudio's problems been resolved? | 04:47 |
| daniels | elmo: not sure, but I would assume lack of a GStreamer sink would be one of them ... | 04:47 |
| daniels | fabbione: eh papa | 04:48 |
| fabbione | daniels: yes kid? | 04:50 |
| === ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-24-6-169-124.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | fabbione: wanna test the new nvidia packages? | 04:51 |
| daniels | fabbione: actually, wait until I merge the AGP patch -- nevermind | 04:51 |
| azeem | daniels: polypaudio can be transparently used as esound sink, no? | 04:51 |
| fabbione | daniels: not right now.. i am building a kernel package | 04:51 |
| azeem | now, a GStreamer source is something different, but AFAIK polypaudio handles that somehow as well | 04:51 |
| fabbione | UltraSPARC IV <- this is not supported by linux | 04:52 |
| fabbione | ops | 04:52 |
| daniels | azeem: unsure | 04:52 |
| daniels | fabbione: k | 04:52 |
| lamont | daniels: that died quickly yesterday... | 04:56 |
| fabbione | hey lamont | 04:56 |
| lamont | (xort that is) | 04:56 |
| fabbione | lamont: the chroots that are building hoary/main are broken | 04:56 |
| fabbione | lamont: they manage to build gdb that build-dep on type-handling | 04:57 |
| fabbione | that is in universe | 04:57 |
| fabbione | lamont: btw.. good morning :-p | 04:58 |
| lamont | fabbione: is this a new gdb upload? | 04:58 |
| elmo | drow used type-handling?! | 04:58 |
| fabbione | lamont: it's a sync from debian | 04:58 |
| fabbione | E: Couldn't find package type-handling | 04:59 |
| elmo | dear god, what is the world coming to | 04:59 |
| daniels | lamont: yeah, there's a new one up there today | 05:00 |
| daniels | lamont: i told you you had to delete 000_stolen_from_fedora.diff :) | 05:00 |
| lamont | fabbione: gdb 6.3-4 predates the fix | 05:00 |
| lamont | daniels: missed that. I can just regrab? | 05:01 |
| daniels | elmo: what does type-handling even do? | 05:01 |
| daniels | lamont: yah, same source version, lasted through clean builds on i386/powerpc/amd64 | 05:01 |
| daniels | (in reverse order of speed to compltee) | 05:01 |
| fabbione | lamont: ok | 05:01 |
| fabbione | lamont: thanks for checking | 05:01 |
| lamont | daniels: build running | 05:04 |
| daniels | lamont: thanks dude | 05:05 |
| lamont | fabbione: there was a bug in the ogre-model implementation. damn perl. | 05:05 |
| lamont | (fixed 23 nov) | 05:05 |
| fabbione | lamont: ogre-model? | 05:10 |
| === fabbione scratches his head | ||
| Kamion | fabbione: seen Shrek? | 05:12 |
| fabbione | yes | 05:12 |
| Kamion | onions | 05:12 |
| fabbione | but i have seen it in italians | 05:12 |
| fabbione | ah ok | 05:12 |
| fabbione | so ogre-models is like onions and orks.. they have layers :P | 05:13 |
| lamont | fabbione: that, and it's smelly | 05:13 |
| fabbione | ehhe | 05:13 |
| daniels | elmo: could I please get linux-restricted-modules build-deps on concordia? | 05:14 |
| elmo | daniels: done | 05:19 |
| daniels | elmo: cheers | 05:19 |
| daniels | shitting hell, the l-r-m build goes into an infinite loop if it fails | 05:20 |
| thom | "From: psychoelmo <psychoelmo@gmail.com>" *giggle* | 05:20 |
| thom | elmo: is that your pseudonym these days? | 05:20 |
| daniels | heh | 05:20 |
| lamont | Applying patch | 05:21 |
| lamont | +debian/patches/024_ati_r128_and_radeon_enable_build_without_vgahw.diff ... | 05:21 |
| lamont | +failed! (check | 05:21 |
| lamont | +stampdir/log/patches/024_ati_r128_and_radeon_enable_build_without_vgahw.diff | 05:21 |
| lamont | +for reason) | 05:21 |
| fabbione | why am i not surprised? | 05:21 |
| fabbione | daniels: let me guess | 05:21 |
| zul | its ati...go figure | 05:21 |
| fabbione | you renamed 020 to 025 | 05:21 |
| fabbione | and not done a patch-audit | 05:22 |
| daniels | fabbione: dude, ease off it, will you? | 05:22 |
| === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: tell me if i am right or not.. | 05:22 |
| fabbione | ;) | 05:22 |
| lamont | 8 out of 12 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree8 | 05:22 |
| lamont | 6/drivers/ati/radeon_driver.c.rej | 05:22 |
| === daniels boggles. | ||
| lamont | elmo: elilo-installer/ia64 needs some unknown-love. | 05:23 |
| daniels | that's exactly what I copied to concordia and davis | 05:23 |
| daniels | fabbione: actually, you're wrong | 05:23 |
| fabbione | daniels: good :-) | 05:26 |
| fabbione | daniels: if what you have around is the same as what is in baz, here they all apply ok | 05:27 |
| daniels | fabbione: yeah, that one had to be updated because benh's patch lets you configure vgahw or not at runtime also | 05:28 |
| daniels | fabbione: so presumably after I did it, I copied to concordia and davis, but not rookery | 05:28 |
| fabbione | daniels: can you give the changelog some love before uploading please? | 05:29 |
| eruin | what's herbert xu's nick? | 05:30 |
| daniels | eruin: he doesn't IRC | 05:30 |
| thom | he doesn't use irc afaik | 05:30 |
| fabbione | eruin: afaik he doesn't irc | 05:30 |
| daniels | fabbione: it's not final, more stuff will change before then | 05:30 |
| eruin | crap, and I wanted to whine about nvidia6629 ;) | 05:30 |
| daniels | apparently 6629 is known broken | 05:31 |
| daniels | (says the man who doesn't own any nvidia hardware) | 05:31 |
| eruin | hmm, gotta google that.. they work fine here | 05:31 |
| fabbione | eruin: the problem seems to affect certain AGP busses | 05:32 |
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| daniels | eruin: there's a patch on some forums somewhere supplied by an nvidia dude that I'm testing | 05:32 |
| fabbione | in specific conditions | 05:32 |
| fabbione | eruin: that makes it no no for us | 05:32 |
| daniels | 'testing' -> 'beating at until the package builds with it, then releasing to suck^Wtesters' | 05:32 |
| eruin | :D | 05:32 |
| lamont | hrm.. thumb cuffs for $6.99... | 05:33 |
| eruin | owell, as long as I have these alienified ooo1.9 debs installed 'm happy | 05:33 |
| _rene_ | erm, you don't need to installl alienated debs when there are "normal" debs... | 05:35 |
| eruin | of 1.9? | 05:35 |
| _rene_ | yes | 05:35 |
| eruin | and where might those be? | 05:35 |
| daniels | lamont: ... | 05:35 |
| _rene_ | eruin: read debian-openoffice | 05:36 |
| === lamont adds the 26" retractable steel baton to his "when I can write it off" list. | ||
| lamont | it's a fun catalog, you see.. | 05:36 |
| _rene_ | eruin: http://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2004/11/msg00216.html | 05:36 |
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| shaya | how is one supposed to use smbmount if it cant be suid root? | 05:37 |
| shaya | used to always just smbmount as a regular user | 05:37 |
| eruin | _rene_: ah, yeah, I'm using those.. synaptic dupes them "alienated" | 05:38 |
| _rene_ | ah. probably because you installed them with dpkg -i etc | 05:38 |
| eruin | what's the diff between java and nonjava? | 05:39 |
| haggai | eruin: the nonjava is a build without java support | 05:39 |
| _rene_ | the java one ist built with java support, the other one is without ;-) | 05:39 |
| eruin | okay, I was foolishly thinking gtk | 05:39 |
| rburton | has oo.o 1.9 got anything really cool? | 05:40 |
| eruin | somehow the ooo1.9 I have on my fedora partition blend in with the rest of my gnome desktop, whereas these don't | 05:41 |
| eruin | well, .oot support | 05:41 |
| eruin | :) | 05:41 |
| rburton | .oot? | 05:41 |
| _rene_ | the new file format :) | 05:41 |
| eruin | the new default format | 05:41 |
| rburton | ah | 05:41 |
| haggai | eruin: that's because I didn't enable the gtk or kde plugins yet | 05:42 |
| tseng | 1.1.3 is being built for hoary now | 05:42 |
| tseng | which has some of the visual improvements | 05:42 |
| eruin | all my old docs from my windows days are in .oot, that's why I need it :) | 05:42 |
| eruin | tseng: no oot support I suppose? | 05:42 |
| _rene_ | err? this must be a different oot? | 05:42 |
| tseng | not afaik | 05:42 |
| haggai | what is oot? | 05:42 |
| _rene_ | the new OASIS format | 05:43 |
| === tseng points up | ||
| haggai | ah, yeah | 05:43 |
| eruin | _rene_: nah, I used an ooo1.9 release there too | 05:43 |
| _rene_ | ah | 05:43 |
| _rene_ | ok | 05:43 |
| haggai | eruin: oot format is scheduled for 1.1.5 I believe | 05:43 |
| azeem | "old docs from my windows days" <- IT landscape is moving fast these days, huh? | 05:43 |
| _rene_ | tseng: there are rumours 1.1.5 will have backported support for OASIS | 05:43 |
| === haggai senses an echo | ||
| eruin | what does ooo use anyway? for the interface I mean | 05:45 |
| tseng | it has its own toolkit | 05:45 |
| _rene_ | an own toolkit | 05:45 |
| tseng | its just being modified recently to emulate native toolkits | 05:45 |
| eruin | yeah, .56 milestone seemed to do that, while the one I'm running, .62 looks butt-ugly ;) | 05:46 |
| _rene_ | you have to enable it during configure | 05:47 |
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| _rene_ | and the resulting stuff then of course is linked against gtk and kde/qt... | 05:47 |
| eruin | damn me for using those debs then | 05:47 |
| _rene_ | tose debs in no way have the usual quality. they are just made from a stock upstream build ;) | 05:48 |
| eruin | time to lobby the maintainer ;> | 05:48 |
| _rene_ | erm? you are talking with them atm... | 05:48 |
| eruin | eek | 05:49 |
| eruin | you do the ones at ~halls/ ? | 05:49 |
| _rene_ | haggai does | 05:49 |
| eruin | oooh haggaaii? | 05:50 |
| === shaya hacks samba so smbmount works again for regular users | ||
| shaya | cant let security get in my way | 05:50 |
| haggai | eruin: as I said in the mail, it was a first cut and there's lots to improve on | 05:55 |
| haggai | eruin: I was just happy to have any .debs at all.. and many people asked for them so I put them up as they were | 05:55 |
| === lamont wanders off for a bit | ||
| haggai | eruin: I'll turn on the gtk & kde interfaces for my next build, ok? | 05:56 |
| shaya | haggai: debs of what? | 05:56 |
| eruin | haggai: that'd be great! :) | 05:56 |
| haggai | shaya: openoffice 1.9.62 | 05:56 |
| shaya | open office | 05:56 |
| shaya | aren't there gtk/kde interfaces in debian already? | 05:56 |
| eruin | for 1.1 | 05:56 |
| haggai | shaya: we're talking about 1.9.x | 05:56 |
| _rene_ | shaya: if you count experimental.. ;) | 05:57 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | pitti: ah, dude! want to test out a new radeon_drv? | 06:01 |
| daniels | thom: what sort of machine is your radeon in? | 06:01 |
| pitti | daniels: sure | 06:01 |
| thom | daniels: amd64 | 06:01 |
| pitti | daniels: can you please mail it to me? | 06:02 |
| daniels | pitti: jah | 06:02 |
| pitti | daniels: I'm in a hurry, gotta go soon | 06:02 |
| daniels | pitti: sure thing | 06:02 |
| daniels | thom: dvi, yeah? did it Just Work beforehand? | 06:02 |
| pitti | daniels: fixed the vga out? | 06:02 |
| daniels | pitti: hopefully! | 06:02 |
| daniels | thom: if you wouldn't mind giving http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/amd64-radeon_drv.o a spin, that'd be rad | 06:03 |
| tseng | daniels: whats different about it? | 06:03 |
| tseng | daniels: ill give it a try. | 06:03 |
| tseng | oh sorry.. missed the 64. | 06:04 |
| daniels | tseng: lots of fixups from benh | 06:04 |
| daniels | tseng: http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/i386-radeon_drv.o | 06:04 |
| daniels | basically, with a bare-bones (i.e. no special options) config file, every single configuration should be detected | 06:04 |
| shaya | daniels: what's in there? | 06:04 |
| tseng | mm, nice. | 06:04 |
| daniels | shaya: basically, you shouldn't ever need to specify any wacky options | 06:05 |
| daniels | every display you have connected should just come up and work | 06:05 |
| shaya | daniels: faster/slower or just options? | 06:05 |
| tseng | ill test on laptop w/ crt | 06:05 |
| daniels | shaya: just options, no optimisations iirc | 06:05 |
| tseng | and no layout options | 06:05 |
| shaya | oh well | 06:05 |
| daniels | http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu4_source.changes <- changelog | 06:05 |
| === thom plugs in second monitor and tries | ||
| daniels | it's the 'break benh's radeon_drv challenge' | 06:06 |
| thom | brb, hopefully | 06:07 |
| tseng | daniels: works for me | 06:07 |
| tseng | w/o monitor_layout | 06:07 |
| daniels | tseng: :D | 06:08 |
| tseng | before it would mess up the top edge of the screen on the CRT | 06:08 |
| daniels | rooooooockin | 06:09 |
| tseng | unrelated X question | 06:10 |
| tseng | when i do something with direct rendering, like playing a dvd | 06:10 |
| tseng | it doesnt show up on the crt | 06:10 |
| tseng | can i config-fu something? | 06:10 |
| daniels | right, you need to set the overlay to the other crtc | 06:10 |
| daniels | hold on a sec | 06:10 |
| daniels | try Option "MergedFB" | 06:11 |
| tseng | i tried that once and got crap | 06:12 |
| daniels | is it any better now? ;) | 06:12 |
| tseng | funny rainbow colors and no X | 06:12 |
| === tseng tries | ||
| daniels | heh | 06:12 |
| smurfix | daniels: I'll try the thing too, I need to reboot anyway | 06:13 |
| tseng | Option "MergedFB" "true" | 06:13 |
| tseng | no hung X, but no video on crt either | 06:14 |
| daniels | so you just get a colourkey, or blank? | 06:14 |
| tseng | black square in totem | 06:15 |
| thom | daniels: close, but no cigar | 06:15 |
| daniels | thom: oh? | 06:15 |
| daniels | tseng: hm | 06:16 |
| thom | oh, hrm | 06:16 |
| fabbione | Kamion. IT WORKS ! IT WORKS!.. at least.. it builds fine... | 06:16 |
| thom | maybe i should specify some options for the second head | 06:16 |
| === fabbione prepares a patch for Kamion to test on ppc | ||
| thom | like res and xinerama? | 06:16 |
| === eruin [~eruin@eruin.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | tseng: i suspect the only way you'll get it is with Xinerama + MergedFB, and moving the video on the second head | 06:16 |
| daniels | tseng: of course, we could write a tiny utility to just set OV0_CRTC_SEL | 06:17 |
| tseng | hm | 06:17 |
| daniels | thom: probably, if they're different resolutions | 06:17 |
| daniels | thom: if you select a res which both heads are capable of, it should work tho | 06:17 |
| daniels | thom: mergedfb may be a plus here | 06:17 |
| Kamion | fabbione: hooray | 06:18 |
| fabbione | Kamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/linux-source-2.6.8.1_2.6.8.1-18_i386.changes | 06:19 |
| fabbione | i just need to add one entry in the changelog | 06:19 |
| fabbione | and you to test on ppc | 06:19 |
| Kamion | guess I can kiss goodbye to my CPU time for a time | 06:19 |
| Kamion | a bit | 06:19 |
| fabbione | i386 is easy because it has only one kernel image used for d-i | 06:19 |
| fabbione | Kamion: run it at night | 06:19 |
| Kamion | fabbione: do I get the source as well as the .changes? :) | 06:20 |
| elmo | kamion: you can't reconstruct the .diff.gz from the md5sum?? lamer | 06:21 |
| Kamion | oh yeah, I forgot I could trivially crack any md5sum-signing scheme, silly me | 06:21 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yeah hold on :-)) i am preparing an interdiff | 06:22 |
| fabbione | start getting -17 | 06:22 |
| fabbione | Kamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/17_to_18.diff | 06:25 |
| fabbione | the patch is big due to importing all the d-i stuff | 06:25 |
| fabbione | but the changes to the relevant files are contained | 06:26 |
| Kamion | fabbione: is ignoring errors from kernel-wedge check a good idea? | 06:31 |
| Kamion | I'd rather the build failed if that breaks | 06:31 |
| === fabbione feels Kamion's heartbeat slowing down.... | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: it breaks on unrelated packages like linux-headers | 06:32 |
| fabbione | because they are sometimes empty | 06:32 |
| fabbione | and kernel-wedge bitches about it | 06:32 |
| === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | heartbeat? | 06:32 |
| Kamion | hm, should just fix kernel-wedge for that | 06:32 |
| Kamion | but ok, later stage | 06:32 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yeah... reading the patch... driving you crazy... dieing slowly in front of your pc :P | 06:33 |
| === Matt| [~Matt|@81-179-205-129.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | heh | 06:34 |
| Kamion | fabbione: I'm not sure shipping debian/control in its current condition is a good plan | 06:35 |
| Kamion | lots of i386-specific generated stuff in it | 06:35 |
| === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-4-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: debian/control is regenerated everytime from control.stub | 06:37 |
| fabbione | if you were building it from amd64 or ppc would have been the otherway around | 06:37 |
| Kamion | yeah, I know that | 06:37 |
| Kamion | I think it might be better to save the ungenerated version | 06:38 |
| Kamion | and restore it in clean | 06:38 |
| Kamion | anyway, building | 06:38 |
| fabbione | i did use the same way as -di- but yes it can be done | 06:38 |
| fabbione | that's also why i call debian/control also in clean | 06:38 |
| fabbione | so it gets updated immediatly | 06:39 |
| === smurfix [~smurf@run.smurf.noris.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: have fun :-) | 06:39 |
| fabbione | i am off for today | 06:40 |
| smurfix | daniels: the radeonfb from ~daniels/xorg/i386-radeon_drv.o still kills my monitor | 06:42 |
| daniels | smurfix: hmmmmm | 06:43 |
| daniels | smurfix: what setup are you running? | 06:44 |
| smurfix | daniels: radeon 9600, one TFT display on its digital output. | 06:45 |
| smurfix | Putting it on analog gets me a "you exceed my timing parameters, go away" display instead of a "I'm told to shut down so I'll go away" message on the TFT. | 06:47 |
| === ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| smurfix | lspci -n: | 06:48 |
| smurfix | 0000:01:00.0 0300: 1002:4150 | 06:48 |
| smurfix | 0000:01:00.1 0380: 1002:4170 | 06:48 |
| daniels | smurfix: so plugging it into your VGA port breaks, but plugging it into your DVI port works? | 06:50 |
| smurfix | No, both break | 06:50 |
| smurfix | just differently. | 06:50 |
| daniels | does commenting out your HorizSync/VertRefresh lines, and commenting out the Option "DPMS" line, in the Monitor section, have any effect? | 06:51 |
| smurfix | daniels: I'll try ... | 06:53 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Mitario | hullo everyone | 06:54 |
| eruin | would any of you have a script to recursively print md5sums of a directory to a text file | 06:56 |
| daniels | eruin: touch foo && for i in $(find ./ -type f); do md5sum $i >> foo; done | 06:56 |
| eruin | thankyou :) | 06:57 |
| Keybuk | daniels: find . -type f | xargs md5sum > foo | 06:59 |
| daniels | Keybuk: meh | 06:59 |
| eruin | man I need to man find | 07:02 |
| === lamont really walks out the door | ||
| === smurfix [~smurf@run.smurf.noris.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| eruin | daniels: can I ask you for another one? the find pattern to match all *~ files ? :P | 07:05 |
| tseng | -iname *~ ? | 07:06 |
| smurfix | daniels: nope | 07:06 |
| smurfix | daniels: same result. I can send you the xorg.log if that'd help. | 07:07 |
| === winkle [~winkle@lgh3814234.vittran.norrnod.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| eruin | tseng: cheers ;) | 07:07 |
| === RubenV [~lambda1@kn-res.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | fabbione: yeah, linux-kernel-di-* is different because it's only one architecture per source package | 07:10 |
| Kamion | tseng: just -name will do there | 07:11 |
| tseng | ya | 07:11 |
| tseng | i always use -iname out of habit | 07:11 |
| === silbs [~sbsm0084@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
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| daniels | fabbione: have you got a link to the agp problems? | 07:22 |
| daniels | smurfix: er yeah, thanks | 07:22 |
| spotter | is there a good reason why pgp4pine is in multiverse, but pine isn't? | 07:22 |
| smurfix | daniels: daniel.stone@canonical ? | 07:22 |
| === Matt| [~Matt|@81-179-205-129.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| daniels | smurfix: yah | 07:27 |
| smurfix | daniels: sent. | 07:28 |
| daniels | ta | 07:28 |
| daniels | smurfix: try removing the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines | 07:33 |
| daniels | if that fails, remove the DPMS line | 07:33 |
| daniels | (all Section "Monitor") | 07:33 |
| smurfix | daniels: you're looking at the wrong Monitors section | 07:35 |
| smurfix | daniels: you want the one named "Test" | 07:35 |
| smurfix | daniels: iow, they already are commented off | 07:35 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-111-226.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| daniels | smurfix: bah | 07:38 |
| daniels | what about if you take out all the custom modelines? | 07:38 |
| RubenV | is there an ubuntu specific anacron maintainer? | 07:40 |
| smurfix | I can do that. They did work a few months ago, so I kinda doubt that'll change anything. But I'll try. | 07:40 |
| bob2 | RubenV: no | 07:40 |
| RubenV | i've just made a quick patch to add lsb functions to the init script | 07:40 |
| daniels | smurfix: so was it working right before you upgraded radeon_drv? | 07:40 |
| bob2 | RubenV: send it to debian's bts | 07:40 |
| Kamion | bob2: no, don't | 07:41 |
| Kamion | RubenV: lsb functions are Ubuntu-specific, please file them in our BTS | 07:41 |
| RubenV | bob2: do they accept those? | 07:41 |
| RubenV | thought so | 07:41 |
| RubenV | ok, coming up | 07:41 |
| RubenV | it's just a quick fix though | 07:41 |
| bob2 | oh, oops, the lsb pretty printing thing | 07:41 |
| smurfix | I was working up until ~three months ago, with the xfree that's no longer in Sarge either. | 07:42 |
| eruin | find relies on having an uptodate db | 07:42 |
| smurfix | daniels: s/I/It | 07:43 |
| eruin | ? | 07:43 |
| daniels | smurfix: with XFree86 4.2.1? | 07:43 |
| RubenV | hmmm | 07:43 |
| RubenV | no anacron module? | 07:43 |
| RubenV | i'll just put it under cron then | 07:43 |
| smurfix | daniels: probably. I didn't actually reboot for a long time and then was way too busy to reboot the system all the time to narrow the problem down. :-/ | 07:44 |
| daniels | smurfix: could you please email the log from a working setup (preferably one with CRT, one with TFT) to benh@kernel.crashing.org, complete with your config and a quick description of the problem, and mention that it's broken both with 6.8.1's radeon_drv, and the patch that he sent me last night? cc me as well please | 07:44 |
| daniels | smurfix: heh | 07:44 |
| daniels | smurfix: well, if you could get an email off, that would be great | 07:44 |
| smurfix | daniels: yeah, I'll have to dig up an older xfree from Snapshots and all that, but apparently there's no fucking way around doing the work. :-/ | 07:45 |
| smurfix | (so what else is new) | 07:45 |
| daniels | smurfix: yeah | 07:46 |
| daniels | smurfix: oh, for the email, he doesn't need a working log -- just a broken one should be sufficient | 07:46 |
| RubenV | https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4118 | 07:46 |
| RubenV | gonna be cleaning up some more init scripts | 07:46 |
| RubenV | just to contribute something | 07:46 |
| smurfix | daniels: OK, that does limit the effort somewhat ;-) | 07:47 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-111-226.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | RubenV: don't put it under cron please | 07:52 |
| Kamion | RubenV: if there's no appropriate package, use UNKNOWN | 07:52 |
| smurfix | galeon is broken in hoary. It's linked to nautilus.so.2 which the latest update renamed to nautilus-private. :-/ | 07:52 |
| RubenV | Kamion: aw, sry, too late :s | 07:52 |
| smurfix | s/nautilus/libnautilus/g | 07:52 |
| Kamion | RubenV: reassigned | 07:53 |
| RubenV | doing the alsa script now | 07:53 |
| RubenV | that does have a pkg :) | 07:53 |
| === Astharot [isager@82.52.100.225] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === RubenV [~lambda1@kn-res.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| RubenV | voila, no more ugly starting ALSA | 08:15 |
| RubenV | and now it's time for some studying | 08:15 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091d22.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| __daniel | hai | 08:23 |
| Mithrandir | thom: I think I found a bug in apache. wrt multiviews. | 08:34 |
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| azeem | in theory, I could go an sell Ubuntu-CDs via the web, right? | 08:44 |
| tseng | sure | 08:45 |
| RubenV | as long as you obey the gpl | 08:45 |
| RubenV | i think :) | 08:45 |
| zul | he isnt modifying or removing the license | 08:45 |
| bob2 | yes, but he is distributing gpl code | 08:46 |
| zul | oh yeah..duh | 08:46 |
| tseng | ew @ openoffice 1.1.3 | 08:48 |
| RubenV | ? | 08:49 |
| tseng | fails on missing kdelibs4-dev | 08:49 |
| _rene_ | hehe | 08:49 |
| _rene_ | we had that discussion this afternoon | 08:49 |
| __daniel | OOo depends on kdelibs? | 08:50 |
| _rene_ | openoffice.org-kde does | 08:50 |
| _rene_ | and so the source build-deps on kdelibs4-dev | 08:50 |
| === __daniel gets the collywobbles | ||
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| Md | I'm trying to understand how udev-udeb is being used. I see no init script in the package and no postinst to create the rules. who knows more? | 09:09 |
| Md | I can't remember Colin Watson's nick | 09:10 |
| Kamion | Md: that's me | 09:10 |
| Kamion | Md: it's all still in development and wildly unsuitable for sarge, which is why I haven't sent the patches back yet | 09:10 |
| Kamion | Md: rootskel does all the init work | 09:10 |
| Md | Kamion: I started merging some parts of it, feel free to send any kind of patches or comments | 09:11 |
| Kamion | ok, fair enough, but I think it would be a good idea to keep it out of sarge; I'm scared what would happen if udev-udeb showed up in the debian-installer Packages file | 09:11 |
| Astharot | hi Md :) | 09:11 |
| Kamion | something might decide to install it :) | 09:11 |
| Md | BTW, you don't need -pudev for dh_link because it's the default and you don't need -a for dh_installdirs because all debian/*.dirs files are always processed anyway | 09:12 |
| Kamion | Md: rootskel pretty much has to have control of the early init process in d-i - it's too custom | 09:12 |
| Kamion | Md: yeah, that's true | 09:12 |
| Kamion | I think I thought the former was clearer despite the default | 09:12 |
| Md | Kamion: yes, I'm just adding some code to debian/rules but the package will not be generated by default | 09:12 |
| Kamion | ok, cool | 09:12 |
| Kamion | at some point soon I'll be mailing debian-boot and all the affected maintainers with the work I've done | 09:12 |
| Md | do you have an URL for the rootskel file which deals with the rest? | 09:13 |
| Kamion | but I don't want to distract too much from sarge with shiny things | 09:13 |
| amu | do we have a kernel with benh's sleep-support for a G4 ? | 09:13 |
| Kamion | amu: afraid not | 09:13 |
| Kamion | Md: libiw27 | 27-1 | testing | alpha, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc | 09:13 |
| Kamion | oopd | 09:13 |
| Kamion | Md: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/r/rootskel/rootskel_1.09ubuntu3.dsc | 09:13 |
| Kamion | I put it next to the existing devfs code | 09:14 |
| amu | Kamion: stupid question, why not? | 09:15 |
| Kamion | amu: no kernel maintainer for hoary right now | 09:15 |
| Md | Kamion: /.dev is definitely not necessary for d-i | 09:16 |
| daniels | amu: that's an update to 2.6.9 + the patch | 09:16 |
| Kamion | Md: noted, will fix | 09:16 |
| amu | ubuntu-ppc without sleep, is like you go undressed to bed :( | 09:16 |
| === _rene__ is now known as _rene_ | ||
| Kamion | I wasn't sure | 09:16 |
| amu | daniels: no prob with it, just woundert is there something like this atm | 09:18 |
| Kamion | Md: is it likely to be possible to use udev without having hotplug at all? it would be nice to be able to switch Debian over one step at a time rather than all at once | 09:19 |
| Md | Kamion: you need at least /sbin/hotplug. what's wrong with the rest of the program, anyway? | 09:20 |
| === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-2-86.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lucas_ | hi | 09:20 |
| Kamion | switching d-i to hotplug is non-trivial; it requires an overhaul of the hardware detection architecture | 09:20 |
| Kamion | I'm working on it but it's not the work of five minutes | 09:20 |
| Md | Kamion: oh, you mean coldplugging. it's not mandatory, look at the init script to see how to disable it | 09:21 |
| Kamion | we could certainly install some kind of dummy /sbin/hotplug in the meantime | 09:21 |
| Md | Kamion: /sbin/hotplug does nothing by itself, look at it | 09:21 |
| Kamion | I know, I've been looking at it and friends for much of today :) | 09:21 |
| Kamion | it can't be called /sbin/hotplug in d-i incidentally, for annoying reasons | 09:22 |
| Md | like? | 09:22 |
| Kamion | we have to activate it only after pivot_root | 09:22 |
| Kamion | if you call it /sbin/hotplug then udevd gets started up in the first initrd and prevents it being unmounted | 09:22 |
| Kamion | I ran into that straight away | 09:23 |
| Kamion | so I just call it /sbin/hotplug.real instead and echo that into /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug shortly after pivot_rooting | 09:23 |
| Md | so don't put it in the first initrd... what am I missing? or make it just exit if everything it needs is not there | 09:23 |
| Kamion | you have to put it in the first initrd, or you don't get it until after the first round of hardware detection | 09:24 |
| Kamion | d-i has no way to install additional udebs until then | 09:24 |
| lucas_ | Kamion: how big is a full ubuntu mirror ? debmirror is broken, so I need to get everything. but I'm not sure if it will fit on my disk. | 09:25 |
| Md | then I think it should be patched to exit until the environment is OK, it looks simpler | 09:25 |
| Kamion | how should it tell? | 09:25 |
| Kamion | there is no significant difference in the filesystem between before pivot_root and after, apart from /dev being populated | 09:26 |
| Md | [ -e /some/file ] || exit 0 | 09:26 |
| Md | at worst you will have to create a flag file | 09:26 |
| Kamion | the first initrd is copied wholesale to the ramdisk | 09:26 |
| Kamion | I think I prefer the current approach TBH, it's easier to understand and doesn't seem fragile | 09:26 |
| Md | I find easier to understand *my* approach :-) | 09:27 |
| Kamion | if I patch /sbin/hotplug then that patch needs to be on the real system as well - I don't want the code to differ between deb and udeb | 09:27 |
| Kamion | so a flag file doesn't sound like an option ... | 09:28 |
| Md | that's OK, I maintain hotplug and can do this :-) | 09:28 |
| Kamion | oh, I thought that was ukai | 09:28 |
| Md | I'm the co-maintainer | 09:29 |
| Kamion | ah | 09:29 |
| lucas_ | ***lucas@ubuntu2:/space/ubuntu-mirror/pool$ ls -l universe/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb | 09:30 |
| lucas_ | lrwxrwxrwx 1 lucas lucas 72 Nov 25 13:55 universe/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb -> ../../../../pool/multiverse/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb | 09:30 |
| Kamion | hm, speaking of, a hook in hotplug to allow feeding back module names to whatever's calling the rc scripts would be really nice ... :-) | 09:30 |
| Kamion | but, looking at the code, it seems very non-trivial to add such a hook | 09:30 |
| lucas_ | there are symlinks looping to themselves on the archive :/ | 09:30 |
| Md | Kamion: what? | 09:30 |
| Kamion | lucas_: I believe something on the wiki tells you | 09:30 |
| Kamion | Md: look at how hw-detect interacts with discover and you'll understand | 09:30 |
| Kamion | Md: especially the bit that allows the user to enter module parameters for each module that's going to be loaded | 09:31 |
| Md | the major problem with hotplug is that it should be completely rewritten to remove all compatibility code for 2.2 and 2.4 kernels... | 09:31 |
| Kamion | lucas_: my warty+hoary mirror for amd64+i386+powerpc is just over 10GB | 09:31 |
| mdz | Md: also the udev race conditions seem to need hotplug changes to be fixed | 09:31 |
| Md | Kamion: module parameters are managed by modprobe, not hotplug | 09:31 |
| Md | mdz: which race? | 09:31 |
| Kamion | Md: there is no way for d-i to know in advance what modules are going to be loaded so that it can ask | 09:32 |
| lucas_ | Kamion: ok, thanks | 09:32 |
| mdz | Md: between the completion of the modprobe process and the creation of the device node | 09:32 |
| mdz | so that modprobe <module> && work with /dev/foo works as expected | 09:32 |
| Md | mdz: it will never be fixed, there is no easy way to do it and the maintainer says to use dev.d | 09:32 |
| Kamion | Md: I would like to be able to know when each module is going to be loaded so that I can ask the user if they want to supply any options to it, basically | 09:33 |
| Kamion | Md: we can do this with discover because it just gives back a list of module names it wants rather than loading them itself | 09:33 |
| Md | Kamion: I see your point, but if users know that some modules need options they probably know their names as well | 09:33 |
| Kamion | Md: there's nowhere for d-i to ask that though | 09:33 |
| Kamion | Md: people could drop to a terminal and do it, but that's hardly acceptable UI | 09:33 |
| Md | Kamion: I think this could be added to hotplug without too much work, BTW | 09:34 |
| mdz | Md: that works for some cases, but not others | 09:34 |
| Md | Kamion: there is no reason to use a terminal | 09:34 |
| mdz | pppd, for example, doesn't make sense as a dev.d script | 09:34 |
| Kamion | how should people add options in the context of d-i then? | 09:34 |
| Md | Kamion: you present users with a dialog with input fields for a module name and its options | 09:35 |
| Kamion | Md: in debconf? good luck | 09:35 |
| Md | mdz: OTOH in this case you already know the device name | 09:35 |
| Kamion | mdz: /lib/debian-installer-startup.d/S40framebuffer-module-linux-x86 is another example | 09:36 |
| Kamion | I've had several cases recently where /dev/fb/0 simply never appeared | 09:36 |
| Kamion | it's as if the event vanished somewhere between hotplug and udev | 09:36 |
| mdz | Md: true, but polling waiting for the device node to appear is such a hack | 09:36 |
| Kamion | but I haven't been able to reproduce it reliably enough to debug it; it seemed to go away when I started poking at it | 09:36 |
| Md | mdz: agreed. but I'm not going to fight this anymore, you people should subscribe to the linux-hotplug mailing list | 09:37 |
| mdz | Md: I wish I could follow the mailing lists for every project that I work with, but unfortunately it is too much | 09:37 |
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| Kamion | the problem with using /etc/dev.d for the framebuffer stuff is that checking to see whether /dev/fb/0 has appeared seems to be about the only reliable way to tell whether the framebuffer module loaded properly or not | 09:39 |
| Kamion | particularly with vesafb and vga16fb; they can load and then not work | 09:40 |
| Kamion | so /etc/dev.d doesn't really work; you still have to say "we're going to wait for a while to see if this worked, otherwise give up" :-( | 09:40 |
| Md | BTW, you should use "sleep 0.1" instead of "sleep 1" | 09:40 |
| Kamion | is that implemented in busybox? | 09:41 |
| Md | if it works in busybox | 09:41 |
| Kamion | it doesn't seem to be | 09:41 |
| Kamion | it just uses sleep(3) | 09:42 |
| Kamion | I would certainly prefer finer granularity | 09:42 |
| Kamion | then again, it seems to take as long as five or six seconds for the device to appear on my test laptop | 09:42 |
| Kamion | I'd love to know what the system is doing for that time | 09:43 |
| Md | me too. in this case I find hard to blame fb brokeness on udev :-) | 09:43 |
| Kamion | oh, I'm not blaming udev exclusively, but it does make things harder to follow that's all :-/ | 09:43 |
| Kamion | still, getting rid of devfs *was* nice | 09:44 |
| Md | it was a bad idea from the start to use devfs for hardware detection, but nobody listened... | 09:45 |
| Kamion | nothing else was available at the time | 09:45 |
| Kamion | for d-i, that is | 09:45 |
| Md | it was a bad idea to not target 2.6 kernels from the start as well :-) | 09:45 |
| Kamion | you do realise d-i development started four years ago right? | 09:45 |
| Md | yes | 09:45 |
| Kamion | it's not good strategy to develop for a kernel you can't run yet :) | 09:46 |
| Md | maybe not from the start, but one year ago | 09:46 |
| doko | elmo: please sync openoffice.org-debian-files, when openoffice.org 1.1.3 enters hoary | 09:46 |
| Kamion | could be; we've been gradually moving over | 09:46 |
| Kamion | my experience so far certainly tends to support my opinion that moving to udev/hotplug in a hurry would not have been a good idea from a stability/permanent-releasability point of view | 09:47 |
| smurfix | Md: even half a year ago I wouldn't have depended on 2.6 exclusively. | 09:47 |
| Kamion | I'm somewhat worried for hoary actually; I'd much prefer if we were getting the massive attention that d-i changes in Debian get, for a change this sweeping | 09:47 |
| Kamion | but we're committed to it | 09:47 |
| Kamion | mdz: oh, do you mind if I add pciutils-udeb, usbutils-udeb, and libusb-0.1-udeb? I need pci.ids and usb.ids now that discover1-data is no longer around to provide the names of network interfaces for netcfg's UI | 09:48 |
| Kamion | mdz: which I had totally not thought about in advance | 09:48 |
| azeem | Kamion: joeyh said you will open up the d-i branch for etch soon, so if you merge it early, you'll get enough testing there as well, hopefully | 09:48 |
| azeem | you == the d-i guys | 09:48 |
| Kamion | mdz: and getting lspci and lsusb will probably be a bonus for debugging purposes, too | 09:49 |
| Kamion | azeem: yeah, I'm very much hoping so | 09:49 |
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| Kamion | azeem: I have a number of other changes I want to merge, but which are too untried for sarge | 09:52 |
| azeem | sweet | 09:53 |
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| fabbione | Kamion: how is the build going? | 09:59 |
| === fabbione is curious as hell | ||
| Kamion | make[1] : Entering directory `/home/cjwatson/src/ubuntu/linux-source-2.6.8.1/linux-source-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1/debian/build/build-power4-smp' | 10:02 |
| Kamion | The changelog says we are creating 2.6.8.1, but I thought the version is 2.6.8.1-3-power4-smp | 10:02 |
| Kamion | make[1] : *** [stamp-debian] Error 1 | 10:02 |
| Kamion | oh, damnit, I probably need Ubuntu's kernel-package | 10:02 |
| fabbione | argh.. yes | 10:03 |
| Md | ROTFL! I just noticed that the new udev makefile prints init-style green "[OK] " labels instead of the whole command line | 10:03 |
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| fabbione | Md: green? it's white here | 10:03 |
| fabbione | ahh | 10:03 |
| fabbione | never miind | 10:04 |
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| Kamion | fabbione: trying again, off to the pub now | 10:09 |
| fabbione | Kamion: have fun :-) | 10:09 |
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| elmo | doko: nothing to sync? | 10:27 |
| doko | elmo: ahh, ok, from experimental, or should this be directly uploaded? | 10:38 |
| Mithrandir | fabbione: pong? | 10:43 |
| fabbione | ehehe | 10:44 |
| fabbione | Mithrandir: #debian-women | 10:44 |
| fabbione | i was trying to convice your gf to build a kernel for me :-P | 10:44 |
| Mithrandir | hehe :) | 10:44 |
| Mithrandir | what arch? | 10:44 |
| fabbione | amd64 | 10:44 |
| Mithrandir | I don't think she has an account on any amd64 box | 10:45 |
| fabbione | we need to fix this, don't we? ;) | 10:45 |
| fabbione | well it's easy | 10:45 |
| Mithrandir | she just doesn't have any account on my home box, is that so weird? :) | 10:45 |
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| fabbione | just grab linux-source-2.6.8.1<whatever>-17.d* | 10:45 |
| fabbione | Mithrandir: apply this: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/17_to_18.diff | 10:46 |
| fabbione | and build | 10:46 |
| fabbione | it needs to be done in hoary | 10:46 |
| fabbione | even if you tell me in 2 days or tomorrow late evening if it works, it will be more than fine | 10:47 |
| Mithrandir | applied against what kernel source? | 10:47 |
| fabbione | Mithrandir: we have only one | 10:49 |
| fabbione | that applied to the entire package | 10:49 |
| === Mithrandir runs apt-get source | ||
| fabbione | linux-source-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1 | 10:49 |
| Mithrandir | yeah, but my DSL is only at about 260KB/sec atm. | 10:50 |
| fabbione | yeah don't worry... | 10:50 |
| fabbione | even tomorrow is fine | 10:51 |
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| fabbione | brb | 10:52 |
| jdub | doko: can we remove the kde depends/packages from OOo in the mean time, before haggai and _rene_ add their optional foo? | 10:55 |
| doko | jdub: I'll have a look, but maybe let's wait for the first problem reports before the next upload. | 10:58 |
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| jdub | doko: if it depends on kdelibs4-dev, it won't build. | 10:59 |
| jdub | doko: OOo is sitting there happily not building. | 10:59 |
| jdub | doko: so i have a problem report and a solution for you ;-) | 10:59 |
| seb128 | jdub: how is flumotion package going ? thomasvs was asking about it | 11:03 |
| jdub | seb128: haven't spent time on it since the initial packaging - have to upgrade and upload. | 11:03 |
| elmo | doko: synced | 11:04 |
| jdub | seb128: will probably do it over the weekend, can't today. | 11:04 |
| seb128 | jdub: ok | 11:04 |
| _rene_ | we probably could do it fairly quick... I just need a package which reliably is in ubuntu but not in debian ;-) | 11:07 |
| _rene_ | the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS logic is already written... | 11:07 |
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| Matt| | hoary: anyone got totem working? | 11:10 |
| doko | jdub: ok, will do another one ... | 11:10 |
| _rene_ | ok, if anyone wants to tell me that package, mail me ;-) | 11:13 |
| Matt| | hey guys is totem working ok in hoary? just crashes on startup here | 11:13 |
| thom | Mithrandir: oh? | 11:18 |
| jdub | doko: i was going to do a quick revision here, but 171MB... OWCH :) | 11:21 |
| jdub | Matt|: load it with a file | 11:21 |
| Matt| | jdub, ok i'll try | 11:21 |
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| Matt| | jdub, yeah that works ok | 11:22 |
| jdub | known bug, hopefully there'll be a new release soon | 11:22 |
| Matt| | upstream bug? | 11:23 |
| jdub | yes | 11:23 |
| Matt| | ok thanks v much | 11:23 |
| Mithrandir | thom: go to http://err.no/personal/wishlist/ | 11:23 |
| Matt| | it is a recent thing | 11:23 |
| doko | jdub: yes, that's why I didn't upload it with my 16kB upstream ... | 11:23 |
| Mithrandir | thom: but I'm off to bed now. Talk to you in the morning | 11:23 |
| jdub | doko: i'm tempted to do it on chinstrap or something | 11:23 |
| jdub | doko: man, my upstream is fatter than that - if you don't want to do it, let me know | 11:24 |
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| doko | it's on adare for now, I just didn't want to upload the binaries. | 11:26 |
| jdub | you only need to upload the diff | 11:27 |
| elmo | you only CAN upload the diff | 11:27 |
| doko | yes, working on it ... | 11:27 |
| jdub | elmo: so, the mp3 stuff in debian - what led to it being acceptable? | 11:28 |
| elmo | jdub: *shrug* decoding's never not been accepted - at the time, the consensus was it was as valid as the lzw decompress patent, i.e. not | 11:29 |
| elmo | oh, and infact, I think Thompson explicitly said free decoders were okay or something too | 11:29 |
| jdub | ?! | 11:29 |
| jdub | well, lzw stuff led to libgd-nonfree and friends | 11:30 |
| pitti | mdz: nice de-rootification hints, thanks for them | 11:30 |
| seb128 | jdub: please comment on #4092 :) | 11:30 |
| elmo | jdub: only for encode | 11:30 |
| elmo | jdub: decode was always accepted | 11:30 |
| elmo | that's why we had web browsers in main... | 11:31 |
| elmo | or image viewers or... | 11:31 |
| elmo | and why libungif existed | 11:31 |
| jdub | seb128: that's the ffmpeg thing? | 11:31 |
| seb128 | jdub: yes | 11:31 |
| jdub | seb128: oddly, this is related ;) | 11:31 |
| seb128 | :) | 11:31 |
| jdub | elmo: so the 'debian stance' is that the patents cover encoding, not decoding, so let's get on with it? | 11:32 |
| elmo | okay, I may have made up the point about Thompson not going after decoders at one stage - I only vaguely recall reading that, and can't find a reference | 11:32 |
| elmo | jdub: err, no - the consensus at the time, as I remember it was that the mp3 decode patent wouldn't stand up | 11:32 |
| jdub | and i can't remember them ever saying anything positive about non-thomson Free implementations | 11:32 |
| jdub | elmo: whoa, okay | 11:33 |
| jdub | elmo: so, ffmpeg stuff. | 11:33 |
| elmo | remember, that's partially based on lzw precedent - unisys claimed decode on that too, and we (and gzip upstream who did a lot of research into it) thought that was bogus too | 11:33 |
| elmo | but Debian really isn't a good example, we do a lot of legal stuff that's dubious basically through lethargy.. e.g. it took us years to start enforcing GPL vs. SSL conflicts | 11:34 |
| elmo | jdub: what's that do? | 11:34 |
| jdub | so if debian thinks a patent is bogus, you'll ship until there's judgement or injunction | 11:35 |
| jdub | ? | 11:35 |
| jdub | ffmpeg viciously violates every mpeg related patent known to man | 11:35 |
| elmo | jdub: *shrug* I'm really not comfortable answering questions about "what debian does" - I can't speak for them , but historically we have yes | 11:35 |
| seb128 | ffmpeg is staying in NEW for months :p | 11:35 |
| elmo | jdub: more so than the existing stuff we have? | 11:36 |
| elmo | e.g. xine, SDL's plaympeg etc.? | 11:36 |
| jdub | doesn't debian's xine disable its ffmpeg stuff? | 11:36 |
| === jdub checks | ||
| jdub | ffmpeg is copy'n'pasted in lots of things | 11:37 |
| jdub | so it's a hard one | 11:37 |
| jdub | seb128: 'longtemps' in french? | 11:37 |
| seb128 | yes | 11:37 |
| seb128 | you start with the big "everybody speaks french" plan ? :) | 11:38 |
| jdub | heh, what does it mean? :) | 11:38 |
| seb128 | oh | 11:38 |
| seb128 | a long time | 11:38 |
| jdub | haha | 11:38 |
| seb128 | I thought you were reaction to my <seb128> ffmpeg is staying in NEW for months :p | 11:38 |
| jdub | yeah ;) | 11:38 |
| jdub | but no | 11:38 |
| jdub | my french is not that good | 11:38 |
| jdub | i just saw it on vuntz's jabber status :) | 11:39 |
| seb128 | oh ok | 11:39 |
| jdub | 'parti pour longtemps' -> fun :) | 11:39 |
| seb128 | he he | 11:39 |
| jdub | i think xine uses a limited ffmpeg | 11:40 |
| seb128 | jdub: about ffmpeg, dunno what sam did exactly with the package waiting in NEW, but usually he does really good work | 11:40 |
| elmo | sam is usually very careful with patents | 11:40 |
| seb128 | yes | 11:40 |
| jdub | seb128: is that gst-ffmpeg or ffmpeg itself? | 11:40 |
| seb128 | ffmpeg | 11:40 |
| jdub | oh no, it has libavcodec in it too | 11:41 |
| elmo | the main question is if the ffmpeg in NEW does encode - we have decoders in main (-> precedent), we don't, AFAIK, have any encoders | 11:41 |
| seb128 | taaz is waiting on ffmpeg to upload gst-ffmpeg ... that's not needed, but since no decision is taken about ffmpeg ... | 11:41 |
| mirak | erf | 11:41 |
| jdub | so it's sitting in NEW purely because it's controversial? | 11:41 |
| mirak | j'ai cr un fichier "-f2" par megarde | 11:41 |
| mirak | je ne parviens pas a le virer | 11:41 |
| mirak | avec tm | 11:42 |
| mirak | rm | 11:42 |
| mirak | bon je l'ai vir avec konqueror | 11:42 |
| mirak | mais j'ai pas trouv comment faire avec rm | 11:42 |
| mirak | il croit en effet que je lui passe une option | 11:43 |
| seb128 | mirak: ECHAN imho | 11:43 |
| mirak | ? | 11:43 |
| _rene_ | mirak: and if not ECHAN, ELANG anyway | 11:43 |
| seb128 | mirak: that's #ubuntu-devel ... | 11:43 |
| _rene_ | mirak: this is an english-speaking channel... | 11:43 |
| mirak | damn | 11:43 |
| mirak | sorry | 11:43 |
| mirak | lol | 11:43 |
| mirak | I am tired | 11:44 |
| mirak | my bad | 11:44 |
| smurfix | mirak: so go to sleep | 11:44 |
| jdub | i can't understand what you are talking about, but i would defend to the death your right to say... whatever it is. | 11:44 |
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