seb128ok ok12:00
enricoelmo: around?12:00
seb128so go with the compatibility stuff12:00
=== jdub attempts to fix the NDEBUG assert b0rk
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) hrm... gonna have to reboot12:19
(lamont/#ubuntu-devel) changing IP's will do that to you...12:19
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enricowiki login has been fixed12:30
=== enrico cheers elmo
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pittimdz: ping12:36
jdubnight seb128 12:37
pittinight seb128 12:37
jdubelmo: did you see my paste above?12:37
__danielbye seb12812:37
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pittielmo: one last upload from chinstrap, because the mysql package was already there anyway. Sorry... 12:51
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elmojdub: err, yes, why is that a surprise?12:51
elmoyour key isn't in the debian keyring?12:51
elmopitti: why doesn't ftp work for you?  is it just with this server or in general?12:51
pittielmo: it's a general problem with my ISP12:51
pittielmo: it works, but it is sloooooooooow12:51
pittielmo: that's why I scp it onto another host and ftp from there12:51
pittielmo: if chinstrap is to be avoided, I can also route it through my own server12:51
elmopitti: ok - I just want to encourage people to test out the new upload daemon - if ftp is fux0red for you, you can use chinstrap12:51
jdubelmo: boh12:51
pittielmo: tomorrow I have some smaller packages to fix, I will test it then12:51
jdubi thought putting those in DEFAULTS would default to ubuntu12:51
=== jdub uses the other setting
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lamontmaybe re-iping things wasn't the best timed act of the day... :-(01:22
lamontgrumble.  bounced mail.  only about 60 messages though. :-(01:35
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lucas_somebody with some debian-cd knowledge ?02:02
lucas_I need to build iso with software from (uni|multi)verse02:02
lucas_it isn't supported, right ?02:02
lucas_am I right when I think that the easiest way to fix this is to grep for "restricted" and see what was changed to add "restricted" support ?02:03
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lamontlucas_: I started with a copy of the CD, added files, replaced the Packages/Sources/Release files, and reburned the CD02:27
lamontthe rune to make the ISO is "mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 4.10 i386 Bin-1' -o warty-install-i386-hacked.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table wherever-your-new-tree-is"02:28
lamontunderstanding what that means is left as an exercise.02:28
=== lamont built a warty install-dvd
lupus_is discover only called on install of ubuntu?02:34
lupus_or each boot02:34
jdubonly on install02:35
jdubduring install02:35
lupus_why only durring install?02:38
lamontlupus_: because warty doesn't use discover.02:40
lamontwell, mostly02:40
elmohotplug is better, basically and we're migrating to it02:41
elmo+even in the installer02:41
lupus_ah so hotplug is not used in the installer at the moment02:41
lupus_only discover02:41
elmotho, that's already changed in hoary02:44
lupus_so /etc/hotplug is for coldplugging and /etc/hotplug.d to have hotplugging? sorry I'm trying to understand how hardware is detected and configured03:00
lupus_nm I'm wrong :)03:03
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lamontjdub: heh03:39
jdubthe final live cd looks brill03:49
(sladen/#ubuntu-devel) "final" ?03:50
ironwolfwarty? yeah, it's pretty.03:50
jdubsladen: the release version, on the pretty printed cds :)03:52
jdubi didn't have the b/w to pull many live cd releases03:52
lamontironwolf: did your order show up yet, btw?03:54
ironwolflamont: no, only 3 days left too...03:54
ironwolflamont: although I have had lots more local interest in them when they arrive.03:55
eruinblah, I can't rightclick files and create an archive anymore03:56
jdubvino + damage == rock!03:58
lamontwell, night04:02
jdublater lamont04:02
ironwolfnight lamont04:03
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ironwolflamont around?05:00
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fabbionemorning guys06:20
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fabbionelamont: ping07:55
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pittiHi all08:38
jdubdoko: woo!08:44
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lifelessjdub: what were you pinging about before ?08:55
jdubdon't remember :)08:58
jdubhere's something though08:58
jdubbaz register-archive -> do you ever register anything other than an archive?08:58
lifelessoh, ui names ?08:58
lifelessie baz register ?08:58
lifelesssounds good, chuck it in the mockup UI :)08:59
pittiping lamont08:59
jdublifeless: also, what do you think about splitting that page up a bit? it's getting unwieldy08:59
jdublifeless: happy to take an initial stab at it08:59
lifelessplease do08:59
pittielmo: here?09:03
jdubdoko: ping?09:18
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seb128jdub: #4092 is WONTFIX, right ?09:40
jdubyeah, atm09:41
pittiHi seb128 09:42
seb128hey pitti 09:43
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KamionI really must actually upload our modified debian-cd to hoary for this release10:24
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fabbionehey Kamion 10:27
fabbioneKamion: kernel-wedge doesn't like symlinks :(10:27
fabbionethings need to be copied in proper places for it to work10:27
Kamioncan you elaborate?10:28
Kamionoh, make-links and clean10:28
Kamionyeah, but dpkg-source doesn't much like symlinks in diffs either10:28
Kamionat best they'll get expanded into real files10:28
fabbioneremeber we agreed on the dir structure of debian/d-i/<arch> ?10:28
Kamionso you might as well copy10:28
fabbioneperfect.. to generate debian/control from control.stub, kernel-wedge accesses a bunch of files like modules/<arch>/10:29
fabbionethe original idea was to symlink those from the top level directory10:29
fabbionebut kernel-wedge just delete the symlinks10:29
fabbioneso they need to be copied and removed10:29
fabbionein order to keep the top level dir clean10:29
fabbioneperhaps it would be nice for kernel-wedge to understand symlinks10:30
Kamionright, but all the modules/<arch> directories are separate anyway10:30
Kamionyou might as well just copy them10:30
fabbioneno big deal.. just some extra cp rm work10:30
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i agree. i don't want to clutter the top level dir.10:30
fabbionesince it is the top level of the kernel10:30
fabbioneand still other files need to be copied per arch10:30
fabbioneand this will also keep the merging easier10:31
mdzpitti: pong10:39
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pittimdz: Hi!10:40
pittimdz: can you please take a look at the mysql USN?10:40
pittimdz: I try to reach lamont or elmo to investigate the missing build from ppc, but as soon as this is sorted out, I can publish it10:40
mdzpitti: ok10:40
mdzpitti: you can reproduce the problem, right?  it is not just me?10:40
pittimdz: "the problem" ==?10:41
mdzI straced it and it is not calling mlock(2)10:41
mdzpitti: gpg10:41
pittimdz: ah10:41
pittimdz: I followed up the bug report10:41
pittimdz: it's a buildd problem10:41
mdzyes, very strange10:41
pittimdz: it works fine when I build it on my machine and I investigated the cause of the problem10:41
pittimdz: luckily the warty version was built correctly10:41
mdzI saw10:41
mdzpitti: what do you want me to look at for mysql?10:42
pittimdz: just the USN text10:42
mdzI sent email to the list regarding the diffs10:42
fabbionei think some buildd chroots are having problems10:43
pittimdz: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/usn-mysql.txt10:43
fabbionelike having too many apt entries10:43
pittifabbione: so far I only had problems with amd64, it's my first ppc failure10:43
mdzpitti: it should note explicitly that -0837 and -0956 require an authenticated mysql user in order to exploit10:43
fabbionepitti: i noticed gdb has been built10:44
fabbionebut using universe packages10:44
fabbionethat means that some stuff might be actually building for mistake10:44
fabbione(talking about hoary)10:44
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lucas_I've always been confused by "warty-updates" vs "warty" dists on the mirror10:45
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lucas_from what I understand, some updates go in "warty", but not all of them ?10:45
lucas_or is "warty" totally frozen ?10:45
danielswarty's totally frozen10:45
pittimdz: fixed10:46
seb128lucas_: changes in warty are mainly security fixes10:48
lucas_those go in warty-security right ?10:48
seb128why ?10:49
mdzlucas_: as described on the website, stable releases receive only security fixes and other critical bug fixes10:55
mdzpitti: the advisory text needs a few more changes, I will send you an updated version10:56
pittimdz: okay, thanks10:56
lucas_yup, my question was about building warty CDs that include the security/bug fixes10:57
lucas_but I need to read more debian-cd code10:57
Kamion(I'm only limited help here because I've never actually tried doing that ...)10:57
lucas_ok, I think I'll start by building CDs based on released warty packages, ignoring updates10:58
Kamionthat will certainly be easier11:00
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lucas_no plans to release ubuntu 4.10r(0..n) ?11:00
Kamiondon't believe so11:00
smurfixlucas_: not much point, with a 6-month release schedule. This isn't Debian. ;)11:01
lucas_yeah I know, I was just asking because it would have helped me a lot ;)11:02
Kamionyou could investigate update-cd I guess, but that's *really* never been tested with Ubuntu11:02
lucas_the easiest would probably be to write a tool that would merge warty-update and warty-security inside warty11:07
lucas_so there's no need to hack debian-cd11:07
lucas_(merge in the local mirror)11:07
seb128lucas_: do you really need the security updates on the CD ?11:09
lucas_it's not high priority, but it would be better11:09
lucas_some of my "customers" don't have broadband11:10
Kamionlucas_: that's a bit scary; debian-cd *is* capable of reading multiple Packages files in general so it shouldn't be necessary11:10
lucas_don't forget grenoble != la doua ;)11:10
seb128lucas_:  people who have a network connection just have to download these updates, what's the security issue with people who don't have a network connection ?11:10
lucas_the problem is for people who have a network connection but not broadband11:11
seb128lucas_: bah, just wondering if a student with no connection really needs the security updates11:11
seb128lucas_: security updates already are that big ?11:11
lucas_not sure11:11
lucas_depends on what is updated ;)11:11
mdzlucas_: we have talked about producing CDs containing only security updates11:12
Kamionseb128: yes, often11:12
mdzseb128: xfree86 has been updated, e.g.11:12
mdzlucas_: that is what I recommend that you do, if you are interested in pursuing this11:12
jdubdoko: around?11:12
lucas_mdz: it might be difficult regarding my user base11:13
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lucas_well, that's not high priority anyway11:13
Kamionmdz: lucas_ is doing a single CD with a number of other modifications anyway11:21
Kamionmdz: it makes little sense for him to waste time creating a separate security update CD11:22
mdzKamion: except that the work would be reusable11:24
Kamionsure, but it's not what his userbase wants11:25
Kamionsee ubuntu-devel@11:26
Kamionthere's no point trying to get reusable work out of somebody when it's not usable for them11:26
Kamionmdz: oh, if you didn't notice, I moved mozilla-browser/mozilla-psm from ship to supported yesterday11:28
Kamionthere seemed to be reasonable consensus for at least that step11:28
mdzthat's fine by me11:29
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elmo% linda *.changes11:36
elmoHappy birthday to me!11:36
elmoI'm 3 today!11:36
elmooh dear11:36
mdzKamion: his userbase will eventually need to download security updates; creating an updated CD doesn't solve that problem at all11:38
mdzthe security update CD approach has the clear advantage of actually working on an ongoing basis11:38
Kamionit'll be no worse than for our own CDs though11:38
KamionI don't think he has a problem either with his userbase having to download some updates or with updating his CD every so often11:39
Kamionelmo: linda scares me11:40
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mdzok, I guess I don't understand the use case then11:40
pittielmo: can you please look why the mysql security update did not built on ppc?11:41
elmoerr, it looks like lamont disabled warty-security on the powerpc buildds by mistake 11:44
pittielmo: can you fix that or shall I wait for lamont?11:44
elmoI'll have a quick look in a bit11:44
Kamionmdz: he's lending CDs to other students in his student union who aren't very computer-knowledgeable; he needs to remove/add some packages to provide for the students' special needs, and he needs to make some changes to the installer too11:45
Kamionmdz: the ones that can't download security updates are the ones who don't have an internet connection, so that's not such a big deal11:45
Kamionmdz: I think his rationale for updating the CD with security updates is just that he might as well, it's a nice-to-have11:45
mdzin that case, I don't see the point of bothering with security updates at all11:45
KamionI can certainly see the rationale; if you're going to build a CD now, it might as well be current11:47
pittimdz: oh, have a happy holiday! :-)11:48
pittimdz: thanksgiving is another opportunity to stuff one's stomach with far too much food, right?11:48
pittimdz: enjoy :-))11:49
elmo# list of distributions that buildd should take packages from11:56
elmo@take_from_dists = qw(stable frozen unstable);11:56
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Kamionhooray for buildd11:57
danielselmo: looks like someone installed a new w-b, heh11:57
Kamionyeesh, pciutils still has no DH_COMPAT or debian/compat? bleh11:58
danielselmo: do you have access to the ia64 thingies?11:58
elmodaniels: blink - of course?11:59
danielselmo: do you care to spin a build around them, or should I harass lamont when he wakes?11:59
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elmoharass lamont to get debootstrap working, then I can create a hoary chroot on the port box12:01
danielselmo: k, cheers12:01
danielslamont: harass, harass, p.u.c/~daniels/xorg, etc12:01
elmopitti: ok, should be fixed now12:02
pittielmo: thanks12:02
elmo(or at least the powerpc buildds will start building things now)12:02
pittielmo: it will automatically arrive at rookery now?12:02
pittielmo: or must there be a trigger of some kind?12:02
mdznight, all12:02
pittinight mdz 12:02
seb128'night mdz 12:02
Kamionsleep well12:02
elmopitti: err, jackass you mean? yes12:03
danielsmdz: night12:03
pittielmo: yes, of course. jackass12:03
Mithrandirwhy doesn't nautilus allow one to open a folder multiple times on multiple desktops?12:04
seb128bug ?12:06
jdubMithrandir: you can in browse mode; spatial is spatial.12:06
seb128oh, doesn't12:06
seb128I misread12:06
jdubMithrandir: the window *is* the folder.12:06
Mithrandirjdub: but the window is on another desktop.12:06
Mithrandirjdub: it means I have to race xpdf to make it open on the right desktop.12:07
seb128what are you trying to open/start, and how ?12:07
jdubMithrandir: you're saying that the window is open, and you try to open it again, but it does nothing (because it's already open on the other desktop)?12:07
Mithrandirjdub: no, it moves me to the other desktop.12:08
Mithrandirwhich is totally surprising.12:08
seb128it should move the window on the current one12:08
Mithrandirseb128: agreed.12:08
seb128it does here12:08
Mithrandirnot here, but I'm using openbox.12:08
seb128oh, so probably an openbox bug12:09
jdubit does here too12:09
pittielmo: $ ps aux|grep ntpd12:17
pittintp       2052  0.0  0.4  3516 3516 ?        SLs  12:16   0:00 ./ntpd12:17
pittielmo: :-)12:17
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elmopitti: sweet thanks12:19
pittielmo: well, it needs some tweaks (to work also on non-cap kernels and such), but it works in principle12:19
danielselmo: so is davis fully set up to be abused?12:20
elmopitti: next I need you to fix... ssh, cron, klogd, sylogd, postfix and getty.. kthxbye12:20
elmodaniels: AFAIK, yeah12:20
pittielmo: ssh? easy, it just could lack a _little_ functionality...12:20
=== pitti grins
pittielmo: btw, syslogd?12:20
pittielmo: I fixed that yesterday12:21
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elmopitti: both syslogd and klogd?12:21
pittielmo: no, it's impossible for klogd12:21
pittielmo: klogd needs CAP_SYS_ADMIN, which is equivalent to root12:22
pittielmo: the odd thing is, you cannot open /proc/kmsg as root and read from the descriptor as user12:22
pittielmo: this works for normal files, but not for /proc/kmsg12:22
pittielmo: with the current kernel there's nothing I can do12:22
elmooh well.. nice for syslogd anyways12:23
elmos/for/to get/12:23
danielselmo: cool12:24
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Kamion-rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  636405760 Nov 24 08:49 20041124/hoary-install-powerpc.iso12:33
Kamion-rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  625797120 Nov 25 08:49 20041125/hoary-install-powerpc.iso12:33
danielsKamion: congrats :)12:34
danielsKamion: how did you shave that much off?12:34
danielselmo: btw, would it be possible to get access to an ia64 port box once lamont makes chroots work and stuff?12:36
elmoI just need working debootstrap12:36
Kamionyeah, waiting on gcc-3.412:36
danielselmo: awesome, thanks12:37
elmooh, ok, thought Lamont had bodged that12:37
Kamionthink it's the last thing left to do12:37
elmoand why on earth do.. oh libgcc12:37
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionat least, it was last time I heard12:37
Kamionelmo: yeah12:37
KamionI'm kind of refusing to do debootstrap until I can do it automatically from germinate output :-/12:37
Kamionlamont has a hacked script though I believe, if you want to ask him for it12:38
elmono, that's fair enough12:39
Kamionanyone object to me adding pciutils-udeb to the installer seed?12:39
danielsKamion: seems eminently sensible12:45
elmodaniels: btw, don't forget to add that fd candy to the appopriate seed12:46
elmoseb128: you too for gnome-python-extras12:46
elmodoko: and you too for zope12:46
danielselmo: good catch12:47
=== lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukjdub: btw. I've mailed the hotplug-ng and udevsend/udevd guys to see what they think the future should be12:49
jdubelmo, daniels: do we actually want the fd candy in any of the seeds?12:49
jdubKeybuk: rad12:49
danielsjdub: i put fdclock/xcompmgr/transset in supported12:49
danielsjdub: fdclock might be sorta kinda neat, but the compmgr is really just too slow12:50
jdubdaniels: i don't think there's any reason to support them12:50
Keybukjdub: I also sent them grepmap as a "here's the C modules.*map parser for you" :)12:50
danielsjdub: oh?12:50
danielsjdub: i think enough people will want to use them to support them12:51
danielsjdub: but not enough, and it's not general-purpose enough, to ship them per default12:51
danielsjdub: but, your call12:51
elmoyes, sorry, please remember when I say "add to the appropriate seed" there's a hidden subtext of "and get sign off for it, if you need to" :-P12:51
jdubyeah, these things should be added to the seed proposals page12:52
jdubdaniels: they're not useful to support though, surely they're fine for universe12:52
danielsjdub: done12:53
jdubdaniels: please put them on the proposals page though, we may come back to it12:53
danielsjdub: k12:54
jdubanyone mind if i patch out the openoffice.org kde stuff, so we can get a build?12:56
=== jdub hasn't got pong from doko
danielsoh frig, this means I need to edit the wiki12:58
elmogod I would KILL for sysklogd to use fricking logrotate12:59
jdubfar out01:01
rburtondaniels: i hear you are off to see mallum on monday01:02
danielsrburton: i hear you are too!01:02
rburtondaniels: indeed. want to meet at victoria?01:02
danielsrburton: rockin'01:03
danielsrburton: easy to get to from south ken?01:03
rburtonyeah, along on the circle for a bit01:03
rburtonor the district. yellow or green.01:03
danielsahr, right01:03
danielswhich means it's easy from earl's court also -- phat01:04
rburtondaniels: what time were you planning on going?01:04
danielsrburton: *shrug*, whenever01:04
haggaijdub: sure.  I was thinking we're gonna have problems sometime with OOo needing GTK and KDE libs to build01:05
danielshaggai: availability isn't a huge problem, it's just that that would drag kde into main01:06
haggaijdub: I want to split some of the -dev sort of headers out and make an installable .deb from them but like everything with OOo it takes ages & ages to do01:06
haggaidaniels: but that would suit KDE users ;)01:06
Kamionwe could imaginably end up stripping out the KDE build-dep for Ubuntu; it wouldn't be the first package we've done that for ...01:06
jdubyeah, that's the main issue01:07
fabbioneelmo: (wishlist) any eta for sparc.u.c =01:07
Kamionlife will be easier once we have community maintenance for KDE01:07
jdubatm we can't build it because kdelibs4-dev isn't in universe01:07
jdubKamion: but that doesn't necessarily mean kde in main :)01:07
haggaiis there any way we can tell if we're building for Ubuntu?  We have a lot of optional stuff in the pkgs controlled by DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS and it would be handy if we could do the same with the KDE bits too01:07
_rene_yeah, good idea01:07
Kamionhaggai: nope, we just upload a *ubuntuN version01:07
danielsKamion: is it worth setting a default DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="ubuntu"?01:08
Kamionalthough having our changes integrated that way could make life easier01:08
Kamiondaniels: users rebuilding our source packages won't set that01:08
haggaidaniels: yeah, might be a good idea01:08
danielsKamion: like, within dpkg-buildpackage, or /etc/environment, or something01:08
elmofabbione: I'm trying to ping sabdfl about sparc boxes - I'd really like to know if we're going to do that first01:08
Kamionthat's always the problem with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS and similar; they can only be used for optional features, not what the buildd needs01:08
Kamiondaniels: EWWW01:09
danielsKamion: (sorry)01:09
Kamiondaniels: (what if somebody wants to build the Debian source package on Ubuntu?)01:09
danielsKamion: (good question)01:09
jdub(stop whispering)01:09
Kamionsource packages pretty much have to be self-contained, unfortunately01:09
danielsKamion: (of course, dpkg-buildpackage could only set D_B_O if the source version contained 'ubuntu' ...)01:09
haggaiso what about adding some sort of DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS+=ubuntu in debian/rules?01:09
haggai(as an ubuntu-only patch)01:10
Kamionhaggai: if our diff were just that one line, that'd rock01:10
haggaiKamion: that's my idea01:10
rburtondaniels: meet at victoria train station, around platforms 1-8, about 11:30-40? there is a train at 11:5301:10
danielsKamion: to every package?01:10
danielsrburton: sounds awesome01:10
Kamionnot sure DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is *quite* the right place, but anyway01:10
jdubhaggai: what would the kde package have in it, if we did that?01:10
_rene_jdub: we could just disable it01:10
KamionI think I'd prefer DEB_DISTRIBUTION or something01:10
haggaithe advantage of DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS+= means you can build the ubuntu variant on Debian.. :)01:10
_rene_jdub: -Nopenoffice.org-kde etc01:11
rburtondaniels: sweet. mail me your mobile so i can find you when you are lost ;)01:11
danielsrburton: heh :)01:11
Kamionyeah, just trying to avoid overloading DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS itself01:11
fabbioneelmo: didn't we agree that i was going to offer "main" in an unofficial archive and that if the port will take off, we were going to buy buildd?01:11
_rene_jdub: so we could make -lde not even built01:11
danielsrburton: sent01:11
Kamion_rene_: or generate the control file01:11
elmooh, maybe we did. blah, my brain sucks01:11
Kamionso that -kde isn't in the .dsc either01:11
fabbioneelmo: because i am already building the "golden debs" for main at this stage...01:11
jdub_rene_: ahr :)01:12
jdub_rene_: handy01:12
fabbioneelmo: and when they will finish i can add universe & co.01:12
_rene_jdub: we actually do that now like this with the java/nonjava flag01:12
danielsthom: kaping01:13
haggaiKamion: we actually generate the control file anyway so yeah we could take it out but I think just using -Nopenoffice.org-kde, like we do for the optional -java pkg, should be enough01:14
elmofabbione: okay, I'll try and have a look at doing s.u.c in the next couple of days - it has to be below a few other things in my todo list tho01:14
fabbioneelmo: sure... that will be more than perfect01:14
_rene_hmm. that still leaves the builddep, though ;-)01:15
fabbioneelmo: when you will be ready to test the setup i will send you the gpg key for the buildd01:15
fabbioneelmo: if you don't mind i want to keep them separate01:15
haggai_rene_: oh, yeah good point01:16
haggai_rene_: we can always do our trick of depending on something in the distro :)01:16
haggai_rene_: like the woody bp01:16
elmofabbione: of course - tho, if we go ahead with the port, I think one of the things we do when we get our buildds, is rebuild the world on them ?01:16
_rene_ah, yeah01:16
haggaiBuild-depends: kdelibs | ubuntu-somthing01:16
rburtondaniels: where did you send the mail? it's not here yet01:16
_rene_kdelibs4-dev | some-ubuntu-stuff01:16
danielsrburton: rburton@d.o?01:17
jdubhaggai: oof. :)01:17
rburtondaniels: ross@01:17
daniels... which just bounced, rock on01:17
_rene_jdub: works, we did that already with woody and dpkg-dev ;-)01:17
haggaijdub: you haven't seen all our hacky^W neat stuff for our woody backport from the same OOo source? :)01:17
fabbioneelmo: we can still use my "golden debs" to start with01:17
jdubhaggai: i saw the 171MB download and turned back :)01:17
danielsrburton: try that01:17
fabbioneelmo: there is no point in starting from scratch again01:17
_rene_jdub: heh01:18
fabbioneelmo: i can already bootstrap ubuntu sparc chroots01:18
haggaijdub: ok, you failed the real h4ck3r test then01:18
fabbioneelmo: and with a bit of love we might be able to install ubuntu on them directly ;)01:18
jdub.au has lots of real hackers :)01:18
jdubwe just don't ahve a lot of real bandwidth :)01:18
fabbionejdub: s/real/fake/01:18
danielswe don't have much fake bandwidth, either01:19
fabbionedaniels: well it was for the hackers01:21
fabbionedaniels: mtools is another FTBFS from xlibs split :( i uploaded the fix.. mind to keep an eye on it?01:22
danielsfabbione: sure01:23
fabbionedaniels: where is xorg crack? :P01:23
danielsfabbione: concordia has finished (like 20min ago), davis has just started -dbg, and catsby (my laptop) is meandering through01:25
fabbionedavis ?01:25
elmodavis is adare01:25
danielsnope, new powerpc port box01:25
fabbioneah ok01:25
danielsadare's motd told me to use davis for chroot builds, so I did01:25
elmodavis is powerpc, it replaces adare01:25
elmohalley is the ia64 port box, but it doesn't have a hoary chroot yet01:25
Kamionhaggai: something in the distro> that's really sick and twisted ;)01:26
_rene_Kamion: you haven't seen the foo | dpkg-dev (<< something) builddeps, have you? ;-)01:28
lupus_libgnome2-common_2.8.0-5ubuntu1_all.deb the 5=debian release? and the 1=ubuntu release? or how does the versioning system work?01:28
jdubnight all01:28
bob2'night jdub 01:28
danielsjdub: 'nacht01:28
daniels_rene_: oh man, that's hideous01:29
_rene_daniels: hackish, but works01:29
Kamion_rene_: I think I noticed them once and RAN AWAY SCREAMING01:29
Kamionlupus_: first Ubuntu revision on top of 2.8.0-501:30
=== fabbione sighs
_rene_Kamion: :)01:31
fabbioneKamion: we need to do a really hackish thing to merge the udeb creation :(01:31
Kamionfabbione: oh?01:31
fabbioneKamion: because the install target doesn't actually install in debian/<pkgname> (that i was hoping for)01:31
danielsfabbione: what's mtools doing with libxau?!?01:31
fabbioneKamion: and later binary-arch calls make-kpkg to create the debs, that are than moved to the right place01:32
Kamionfabbione: which install target?01:32
fabbionedaniels: you ask me?01:32
fabbioneKamion: then one in the top level debian/rules01:32
fabbionedaniels: it FTBFS without01:32
Kamionfabbione: oh, you clearly have to run kernel-wedge after most of binary-arch is finished01:32
danielsfabbione: oh man01:33
fabbioneKamion: yep01:33
fabbionefloppyd.c:28:23: X11/Xauth.h: No such file or directory01:35
fabbionefloppyd.c: In function `do_auth':01:35
=== Kamion tries to find a solution to his network device detection problem that doesn't involve diverting modprobe
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-14-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128herzi: your testcase doesn't work and I think than bastien doesn't want to debug it 01:43
=== trukulo [~mzarza@26.Red-81-45-239.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
herziwell, it works on my machines, maybe it's locale-dependent?01:50
seb128$ ./compile.sh01:50
seb128gcc: -E required when input is from standard input01:50
seb128BTW don't bother to fix it, I've added a tarball to the BR01:51
herzii saw that01:51
herziit's good for non-english people to have this fixed01:51
seb128elmo: eog sync please02:11
elmoseb128: done02:11
fabbioneKamion: regarding the kernel-versions file02:11
fabbioneKamion: the last entry is the build-dep field, that we don't need anymore, since we build everything from the same source02:11
fabbioneKamion: problem is: if i leave a build-dep in there it finishes into debian/control02:11
fabbioneKamion: if i remove it kernel-wedge install-files will fail a sanity check02:11
fabbioneKamion: and i have 2 options to fix it:02:12
fabbioneKamion: a) patch kernel-wedge to be less anal in that sanity check02:12
danielsfabbione: if you want to give ubuntu4 a test run around sparc (p.u.c/~daniels/xorg), that would be cool02:12
fabbioneKamion: b) insert a fake build-dep in kernel-versions02:12
fabbioneKamion: fake as in writing for ex. tar02:13
fabbioneKamion: or something like that02:13
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fabbionedaniels: it would take hours to build and don't worry about sparc until there is a need for it :-)02:13
=== alerios [~alerios@] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Abandonando"]
fabbioneKamion: what would you prefer?02:14
fabbioneKamion: the change in kernel-wedge would be limited to commands/install-files02:14
fabbioneKamion: the var is not even used.. just checked for len > 002:15
danielsfabbione: heh, ok02:15
danielsfabbione: waiting on lamont for an ia64 test build anyway02:15
Kamionfabbione: uh, wait a sec, I want to look at this carefully02:16
fabbioneKamion: sure02:16
Kamionfabbione: we must not break kernel-wedge in such a way that you can't build Debian's installer on Ubuntu any more02:16
fabbioneKamion: removing the sanity check shouldn't break02:17
Kamionyeah, but it sucks02:17
fabbioneotherwise we need to patch gen-control02:17
fabbioneor create a gen-control-ubuntu02:17
Kamionthis is why I said "wait a sec"02:17
Kamionlet's not do random things just to hack it into working; this should be done properly02:17
fabbionei agree.. that's why i am discussing it with you :-)02:18
KamionI don't see this sanity check?02:18
fabbione            ! length $builddep ) {02:18
fabbionein commands/install-files02:19
Kamionwhy not just not call gen-control?02:19
Kamionoh, no, you need it02:19
fabbioneKamion: because we need the control? ;)02:19
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fabbionekernel-wedge is correct assuming that there must be a build-dep02:20
fabbioneit's our merge that goes against it02:20
fabbionei think the best approach would be to change gen-control02:21
KamionI don't think I'd object to changing install-files, actually02:21
Kamionthat seems the most compatible approach02:21
fabbioneor create an ubuntu copy of it02:22
Kamionno copies02:22
fabbionehmm why not?02:22
fabbioneit would make merge very simple02:22
Kamionhave you heard the term "clone-and-hack"?02:22
fabbionehmmm no02:22
Kamionif we copy, we do not get the benefit of bug fixes02:22
Kamionit's not a complimentary term02:22
fabbioneKamion: let me see one thing02:23
Kamionwhat gen-control change were you thinking of?02:23
fabbioneKamion: well on our system should not add the entry in the Build-Dep field02:25
fabbioneKamion: otherwise you will get a source that build-dep on itseld02:25
fabbioneitself binaries02:25
KamionI don't like that, I'd much rather remove the check from install-files02:25
Kamionthat seems fairly harmless, looking at it02:26
fabbioneKamion: otherwise how would you feel in NOT touching the code at all02:26
Kamionespecially since gen-control does not perform that sanity check02:26
fabbioneand just add a fake build-dep ?02:26
Kamionnah, let's remove the check, that's better02:26
fabbioneok.. do you want to do it, or should i?02:26
Kamionno point adding fake cruft to lots of kernel-versions files02:27
fabbionehmm no02:27
fabbioneit's only on one line02:27
KamionI've got the change here, will upload02:27
fabbionethe Build-Dep 02:27
fabbioneok thanks02:27
Kamionper-arch, remember02:27
fabbionenot in this case02:27
fabbioneit will add it to linux-source02:27
fabbionebut ok...02:27
fabbionethe change to the code is ok with me :-)02:28
Kamionum, you still have multiple kernel-versions files surely?02:28
KamionI mean, you have to02:28
fabbioneyes, but the gen-control changes only the Build-Dep to add the ones listed in kernel-versions02:28
fabbioneanyway it's ok the change to the code :-)02:28
Kamionright, but if you were adding a fake build-dep you'd have to do that on every kernel-versions line; that's where the check was being applied02:29
fabbioneoh yes02:29
fabbionei misunderstood you before :-)02:29
KamionI'll talk to joeyh next time I remember, see if this can go upstream02:29
fabbionegood idea02:30
Kamionuploaded, thanks02:30
fabbionethanks to you :-)02:30
fabbionei think i can give you the first -17 -> -18 interdiff tomorrow to create debs...02:30
fabbionetho there is still the versioning problem that i need evaluate02:31
fabbioneif we are going to create newer or older udebs02:31
Kamionudebs don't have an upgrade problem technically, but katie may hate you02:31
fabbioneKamion: i am taking my time to be as less intrusive as possible02:31
fabbioneeven if i don't fully understand the reason of this merge :-)))02:32
Kamionwouldn't it be a much newer version by default?02:32
fabbioneimho it will make user's life more complicate with a bunch of extra kernel updates, only to change udebs02:32
fabbioneKamion: i didn't check.. i just had the flash while talking with you 3 seconds ago02:32
Kamionit's basically so that a kernel upgrade doesn't involve "build linux-source-, wait, get Kamion to build linux-kernel-di-* so that the changes propagate to the installer"02:32
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i grok that :-)02:33
Kamionwhich can be important when we're doing stuff in a hurry, and mdz wants it for security uploads02:33
fabbionebut on the other side02:33
fabbione"hey another kernel upgrade to fix the usb udev" ;)02:33
Kamionyep; I kind of regard that as "unlucky for running a development release"02:34
Kamionit'll be easier once our kernel package is in arch02:34
fabbioneoh yeah...02:34
Kamionthen I can commit as I do stuff rather than uploading for every change02:34
fabbionelinux-source-$ kernel-wedge install-files02:36
fabbione        kernel-wedge copy-modules 386
fabbione        kernel-wedge copy-firmware 386
fabbione        kernel-wedge find-dups
fabbionefabbione@gordian:/usr/src/wartydevel/kernel/linux-source-$ 02:36
fabbionesweet :-)02:36
Kamionbonus :)02:36
fabbionelet see what it did :-)02:36
fabbioneit's working :-)02:37
fabbioneKamion: probably later this evening...02:37
fabbionei was expecting more problems02:37
Kamionnifty, nice work02:37
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fabbioneit almost work :-)02:42
Kamionthat looks ok ...02:43
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fabbioneKamion: yes.. all the udebs are ok...02:44
fabbionethe debs aren't02:45
fabbionebut it should be easy to do it nice and clean02:45
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zul [~chuck@zul.developer.gentoo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittidie, evil ntp root privileges, die!03:16
tsengmmm, openntpd03:16
tsengprivelage seperation + no listening by default03:17
pittitseng: I just uploaded a new ntp package which lets ntpd run as normal user03:17
tsengmm, nice.03:17
elmoby day, pitti is just another programmer - but by night he turns into the DEROOTER - a shadowy figure fighting the wars others fear to wage, rooting out (har har) evildoers who retain priviledges they don't deserve03:17
=== pitti hides the "slash root" axe
pittitseng: the funny thing is that it took me about half an hour to fix the code, and about one and a half to fix the broken init script handling03:19
smurfixpitti: *sigh* yet more work for me.03:19
tsengso it now starts as root and drops?03:19
pittismurfix: why, are you the Debian NTP team?03:20
pittitseng: yes, it drops to ntp:ntp and only keeps CAP_SYS_TIME03:20
smurfixnot quite "the", bu close.03:20
fabbionepitti: yes he is03:20
fabbionesmurfix: btw.. that mail about evdev03:20
pittitseng: the code already kind of supported that, it just needed some tweaking03:20
fabbionesmurfix: please discuss it either in ubuntu-devel or debian-x03:20
pittitseng: the hard part was to get a smooth transition on package upgrading03:20
fabbionesmurfix: i don't maintain X in ubuntu anymore :-D03:21
smurfixfabbione: OK03:21
fabbionesmurfix: can't you see the difference yet?03:21
fabbioneno caps lock..03:21
fabbioneno irritation to my skin03:21
sivangfabbione : who is ?03:21
fabbionei don't wake up yelling at the elfloader03:21
fabbionesivang: daniel the kid03:22
smurfixfabbione: the relevant changhelog entry was yours, though, so I thought maybe you'd feel responsible. ;-)03:22
fabbionesmurfix: i did only one change to make it more flexible for certain corner cases03:22
fabbionesmurfix: not as default protocol03:22
fabbionebut you can discuss it03:22
fabbionewith enough arguments you can convince daniels03:23
=== smurfix needs to fix dasher so nobody needs to see more of his broken one-handed typing
pittismurfix: I sent the patch as a wishlist bug. Have fun with it :-)03:34
smurfixpitti: thanks. I guess. ;-)03:35
Kamionsmurfix: one-handed typing> I don't want to know03:36
smurfixKamion: read my blog... (or not)03:37
=== daniels returns from spasming on the ground at the mention of 'elfloader'.
danielssmurfix: so!  evdev as default, eh?  sell me.03:42
smurfixdaniels: (a) I like the ability to actually use the multiple buttons on mine.03:44
danielssmurfix: er, most people have working multi-button mice without evdev (by 'most people', I mean 'everyone not running Apple hardware')03:45
smurfixmulti := >303:45
Kamionsmurfix: ouch :(03:47
smurfixmy lowly Explorer has five and I didn't even have to configure $BROWSER to use the additional ones as back+forward03:47
smurfixKamion: my thoughts exactly.03:47
smurfixKamion: I thought you didn't want to know :-/03:47
danielssmurfix: so change to ExplorerPS/203:50
fabbionedaniels: evdev seems to autodetect that03:50
fabbione[debian-ntp]  Bug#282941: ntp-server: Please run ntpd as non-root03:51
smurfixdaniels: why ask the poor user what mouse protocol he should use on his USB bus?03:51
fabbionetsk :-)03:51
danielssmurfix: yeah, I dunno whether it's safe for standard ImPS/2 or not; if it is, I'll make it the default03:52
danielssmurfix: unfortunately all I have here is my laptop, but if you want to do some research, it would be hugely appreciated (feel free to open a bug in Bugzilla, assigned to daniel.stone@canonical.com, status NEEDINFO)03:52
danielssmurfix: and yeah, I agree that asking a question like that is tremendously shit03:53
smurfixdaniels: OK, will do.03:53
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
smurfixdaniels: #410603:59
danielssmurfix: thanks04:00
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fabbioneKamion: testing a full build now :-)04:27
fabbioneccache orgy :-)04:31
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danielshttp://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/releases/gst-plugins/0.8.6.html <- polypaudio support04:43
seb128they have finally release 0.8.6 ?04:44
danielsto be fair, they were blocked for about four or five days on fd.o04:45
elmohave polypaudio's problems been resolved?04:47
danielselmo: not sure, but I would assume lack of a GStreamer sink would be one of them ...04:47
danielsfabbione: eh papa04:48
fabbionedaniels: yes kid?04:50
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danielsfabbione: wanna test the new nvidia packages?04:51
danielsfabbione: actually, wait until I merge the AGP patch -- nevermind04:51
azeemdaniels: polypaudio can be transparently used as esound sink, no?04:51
fabbionedaniels: not right now.. i am building a kernel package04:51
azeemnow, a GStreamer source is something different, but AFAIK polypaudio handles that somehow as well04:51
fabbioneUltraSPARC IV <- this is not supported by linux04:52
danielsazeem: unsure04:52
danielsfabbione: k04:52
lamontdaniels: that died quickly yesterday...04:56
fabbionehey lamont 04:56
lamont(xort that is)04:56
fabbionelamont: the chroots that are building hoary/main are broken04:56
fabbionelamont: they manage to build gdb that build-dep on type-handling04:57
fabbionethat is in universe04:57
fabbionelamont: btw.. good morning :-p04:58
lamontfabbione: is this a new gdb upload?04:58
elmodrow used type-handling?!04:58
fabbionelamont: it's a sync from debian04:58
fabbioneE: Couldn't find package type-handling04:59
elmodear god, what is the world coming to04:59
danielslamont: yeah, there's a new one up there today05:00
danielslamont: i told you you had to delete 000_stolen_from_fedora.diff :)05:00
lamontfabbione: gdb 6.3-4 predates the fix05:00
lamontdaniels: missed that.  I can just regrab?05:01
danielselmo: what does type-handling even do?05:01
danielslamont: yah, same source version, lasted through clean builds on i386/powerpc/amd6405:01
daniels(in reverse order of speed to compltee)05:01
fabbionelamont: ok05:01
fabbionelamont: thanks for checking05:01
lamontdaniels: build running05:04
danielslamont: thanks dude05:05
lamontfabbione: there was a bug in the ogre-model implementation.  damn perl.05:05
lamont(fixed 23 nov)05:05
fabbionelamont: ogre-model?05:10
=== fabbione scratches his head
Kamionfabbione: seen Shrek?05:12
fabbionebut i have seen it in italians05:12
fabbioneah ok05:12
fabbioneso ogre-models is like onions and orks.. they have layers :P05:13
lamontfabbione: that, and it's smelly05:13
danielselmo: could I please get linux-restricted-modules build-deps on concordia?05:14
elmodaniels: done05:19
danielselmo: cheers05:19
danielsshitting hell, the l-r-m build goes into an infinite loop if it fails05:20
thom "From: psychoelmo <psychoelmo@gmail.com>" *giggle*05:20
thomelmo: is that your pseudonym these days?05:20
lamontApplying patch05:21
lamont+debian/patches/024_ati_r128_and_radeon_enable_build_without_vgahw.diff ...05:21
lamont+failed! (check05:21
lamont+for reason)05:21
fabbionewhy am i not surprised?05:21
fabbionedaniels: let me guess05:21
zulits ati...go figure05:21
fabbioneyou renamed 020 to 02505:21
fabbioneand not done a patch-audit05:22
danielsfabbione: dude, ease off it, will you?05:22
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fabbionedaniels: tell me if i am right or not..05:22
lamont8 out of 12 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree805:22
=== daniels boggles.
lamontelmo: elilo-installer/ia64 needs some unknown-love.05:23
danielsthat's exactly what I copied to concordia and davis05:23
danielsfabbione: actually, you're wrong05:23
fabbionedaniels: good :-)05:26
fabbionedaniels: if what you have around is the same as what is in baz, here they all apply ok05:27
danielsfabbione: yeah, that one had to be updated because benh's patch lets you configure vgahw or not at runtime also05:28
danielsfabbione: so presumably after I did it, I copied to concordia and davis, but not rookery05:28
fabbionedaniels: can you give the changelog some love before uploading please?05:29
eruinwhat's herbert xu's nick?05:30
danielseruin: he doesn't IRC05:30
thomhe doesn't use irc afaik05:30
fabbioneeruin: afaik he doesn't irc05:30
danielsfabbione: it's not final, more stuff will change before then05:30
eruincrap, and I wanted to whine about nvidia6629 ;)05:30
danielsapparently 6629 is known broken05:31
daniels(says the man who doesn't own any nvidia hardware)05:31
eruinhmm, gotta google that.. they work fine here05:31
fabbioneeruin: the problem seems to affect certain AGP busses05:32
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danielseruin: there's a patch on some forums somewhere supplied by an nvidia dude that I'm testing05:32
fabbionein specific conditions05:32
fabbioneeruin: that makes it no no for us05:32
daniels'testing' -> 'beating at until the package builds with it, then releasing to suck^Wtesters'05:32
lamonthrm.. thumb cuffs for $6.99...05:33
eruinowell, as long as I have these alienified ooo1.9 debs installed 'm happy05:33
_rene_erm, you don't need to installl alienated debs when there are "normal" debs...05:35
eruinof 1.9?05:35
eruinand where might those be?05:35
danielslamont: ...05:35
_rene_eruin: read debian-openoffice05:36
=== lamont adds the 26" retractable steel baton to his "when I can write it off" list.
lamontit's a fun catalog, you see..05:36
_rene_eruin: http://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2004/11/msg00216.html05:36
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shayahow is one supposed to use smbmount if it cant be suid root?05:37
shayaused to always just smbmount as a regular user05:37
eruin_rene_: ah, yeah, I'm using those.. synaptic dupes them "alienated"05:38
_rene_ah. probably because you installed them with dpkg -i etc05:38
eruinwhat's the diff between java and nonjava?05:39
haggaieruin: the nonjava is a build without java support05:39
_rene_the java one ist built with java support, the other one is without ;-)05:39
eruinokay, I was foolishly thinking gtk05:39
rburtonhas oo.o 1.9 got anything really cool?05:40
eruinsomehow the ooo1.9 I have on my fedora partition blend in with the rest of my gnome desktop, whereas these don't05:41
eruinwell, .oot support05:41
_rene_the new file format :)05:41
eruinthe new default format05:41
haggaieruin: that's because I didn't enable the gtk or kde plugins yet05:42
tseng1.1.3 is being built for hoary now05:42
tsengwhich has some of the visual improvements05:42
eruinall my old docs from my windows days are in .oot, that's why I need it :)05:42
eruintseng: no oot support I suppose?05:42
_rene_err? this must be a different oot?05:42
tsengnot afaik05:42
haggaiwhat is oot?05:42
_rene_the new OASIS format05:43
=== tseng points up
haggaiah, yeah05:43
eruin_rene_: nah, I used an ooo1.9 release there too05:43
haggaieruin: oot format is scheduled for 1.1.5 I believe05:43
azeem"old docs from my windows days" <- IT landscape is moving fast these days, huh?05:43
_rene_tseng: there are rumours 1.1.5 will have backported support for OASIS05:43
=== haggai senses an echo
eruinwhat does ooo use anyway? for the interface I mean05:45
tsengit has its own toolkit05:45
_rene_an own toolkit05:45
tsengits just being modified recently to emulate native toolkits05:45
eruinyeah, .56 milestone seemed to do that, while the one I'm running, .62 looks butt-ugly ;)05:46
_rene_you have to enable it during configure05:47
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_rene_and the resulting stuff then of course is linked against gtk and kde/qt...05:47
eruindamn me for using those debs then05:47
_rene_tose debs in  no way have the usual quality. they are just made from a stock upstream build ;)05:48
eruintime to lobby the maintainer ;>05:48
_rene_erm? you are talking with them atm...05:48
eruinyou do the ones at ~halls/ ?05:49
_rene_haggai does05:49
eruinoooh haggaaii?05:50
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shayacant let security get in my way05:50
haggaieruin: as I said in the mail, it was a first cut and there's lots to improve on05:55
haggaieruin: I was just happy to have any .debs at all.. and many people asked for them so I put them up as they were05:55
=== lamont wanders off for a bit
haggaieruin: I'll turn on the gtk & kde interfaces for my next build, ok?05:56
shayahaggai: debs of what?05:56
eruinhaggai: that'd be great! :)05:56
haggaishaya: openoffice 1.9.6205:56
shayaopen office05:56
shayaaren't there gtk/kde interfaces in debian already?05:56
eruinfor 1.105:56
haggaishaya: we're talking about 1.9.x05:56
_rene_shaya: if you count experimental.. ;)05:57
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danielspitti: ah, dude!  want to test out a new radeon_drv?06:01
danielsthom: what sort of machine is your radeon in?06:01
pittidaniels: sure06:01
thomdaniels: amd6406:01
pittidaniels: can you please mail it to me?06:02
danielspitti: jah06:02
pittidaniels: I'm in a hurry, gotta go soon06:02
danielspitti: sure thing06:02
danielsthom: dvi, yeah?  did it Just Work beforehand?06:02
pittidaniels: fixed the vga out?06:02
danielspitti: hopefully!06:02
danielsthom: if you wouldn't mind giving http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/amd64-radeon_drv.o a spin, that'd be rad06:03
tsengdaniels: whats different about it?06:03
tsengdaniels: ill give it a try.06:03
tsengoh sorry.. missed the 64.06:04
danielstseng: lots of fixups from benh06:04
danielstseng: http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/i386-radeon_drv.o06:04
danielsbasically, with a bare-bones (i.e. no special options) config file, every single configuration should be detected06:04
shayadaniels: what's in there?06:04
tsengmm, nice.06:04
danielsshaya: basically, you shouldn't ever need to specify any wacky options06:05
danielsevery display you have connected should just come up and work06:05
shayadaniels: faster/slower or just options?06:05
tsengill test on laptop w/ crt06:05
danielsshaya: just options, no optimisations iirc06:05
tsengand no layout options06:05
shayaoh well06:05
danielshttp://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu4_source.changes <- changelog06:05
=== thom plugs in second monitor and tries
danielsit's the 'break benh's radeon_drv challenge'06:06
thombrb, hopefully06:07
tsengdaniels: works for me06:07
tsengw/o monitor_layout06:07
danielstseng: :D06:08
tsengbefore it would mess up the top edge of the screen on the CRT06:08
tsengunrelated X question06:10
tsengwhen i do something with direct rendering, like playing a dvd06:10
tsengit doesnt show up on the crt06:10
tsengcan i config-fu something?06:10
danielsright, you need to set the overlay to the other crtc06:10
danielshold on a sec06:10
danielstry Option "MergedFB"06:11
tsengi tried that once and got crap06:12
danielsis it any better now? ;)06:12
tsengfunny rainbow colors and no X06:12
=== tseng tries
smurfixdaniels: I'll try the thing too, I need to reboot anyway06:13
tsengOption "MergedFB"   "true"06:13
tsengno hung X, but no video on crt either06:14
danielsso you just get a colourkey, or blank?06:14
tsengblack square in totem06:15
thomdaniels: close, but no cigar06:15
danielsthom: oh?06:15
danielstseng: hm06:16
thomoh, hrm06:16
fabbioneKamion. IT WORKS ! IT WORKS!.. at least.. it builds fine...06:16
thommaybe i should specify some options for the second head06:16
=== fabbione prepares a patch for Kamion to test on ppc
thomlike res and xinerama?06:16
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danielstseng: i suspect the only way you'll get it is with Xinerama + MergedFB, and moving the video on the second head06:16
danielstseng: of course, we could write a tiny utility to just set OV0_CRTC_SEL06:17
danielsthom: probably, if they're different resolutions06:17
danielsthom: if you select a res which both heads are capable of, it should work tho06:17
danielsthom: mergedfb may be a plus here06:17
Kamionfabbione: hooray06:18
fabbioneKamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/linux-source-
fabbionei just need to add one entry in the changelog06:19
fabbioneand you to test on ppc06:19
Kamionguess I can kiss goodbye to my CPU time for a time06:19
Kamiona bit06:19
fabbionei386 is easy because it has only one kernel image used for d-i06:19
fabbioneKamion: run it at night06:19
Kamionfabbione: do I get the source as well as the .changes? :)06:20
elmokamion: you can't reconstruct the .diff.gz from the md5sum?? lamer06:21
Kamionoh yeah, I forgot I could trivially crack any md5sum-signing scheme, silly me06:21
fabbioneKamion: yeah hold on :-)) i am preparing an interdiff06:22
fabbionestart getting -1706:22
fabbioneKamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/17_to_18.diff06:25
fabbionethe patch is big due to importing all the d-i stuff06:25
fabbionebut the changes to the relevant files are contained06:26
Kamionfabbione: is ignoring errors from kernel-wedge check a good idea?06:31
KamionI'd rather the build failed if that breaks06:31
=== fabbione feels Kamion's heartbeat slowing down....
fabbioneKamion: it breaks on unrelated packages like linux-headers06:32
fabbionebecause they are sometimes empty06:32
fabbioneand kernel-wedge bitches about it06:32
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Kamionhm, should just fix kernel-wedge for that06:32
Kamionbut ok, later stage06:32
fabbioneKamion: yeah... reading the patch... driving you crazy... dieing slowly in front of your pc :P06:33
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Kamionfabbione: I'm not sure shipping debian/control in its current condition is a good plan06:35
Kamionlots of i386-specific generated stuff in it06:35
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fabbioneKamion: debian/control is regenerated everytime from control.stub06:37
fabbioneif you were building it from amd64 or ppc would have been the otherway around06:37
Kamionyeah, I know that06:37
KamionI think it might be better to save the ungenerated version06:38
Kamionand restore it in clean06:38
Kamionanyway, building06:38
fabbionei did use the same way as -di- but yes it can be done06:38
fabbionethat's also why i call debian/control also in clean06:38
fabbioneso it gets updated immediatly06:39
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fabbioneKamion: have fun :-)06:39
fabbionei am off for today06:40
smurfixdaniels: the radeonfb from ~daniels/xorg/i386-radeon_drv.o still kills my monitor06:42
danielssmurfix: hmmmmm06:43
danielssmurfix: what setup are you running?06:44
smurfixdaniels: radeon 9600, one TFT display on its digital output.06:45
smurfixPutting it on analog gets me a "you exceed my timing parameters, go away" display instead of a "I'm told to shut down so I'll go away" message on the TFT.06:47
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smurfixlspci -n:06:48
smurfix0000:01:00.0 0300: 1002:415006:48
smurfix0000:01:00.1 0380: 1002:417006:48
danielssmurfix: so plugging it into your VGA port breaks, but plugging it into your DVI port works?06:50
smurfixNo, both break06:50
smurfixjust differently.06:50
danielsdoes commenting out your HorizSync/VertRefresh lines, and commenting out the Option "DPMS" line, in the Monitor section, have any effect?06:51
smurfixdaniels: I'll try ...06:53
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Mitariohullo everyone06:54
eruinwould any of you have a script to recursively print md5sums of a directory to a text file06:56
danielseruin: touch foo && for i in $(find ./ -type f); do md5sum $i >> foo; done06:56
eruinthankyou :)06:57
Keybukdaniels: find . -type f | xargs md5sum > foo06:59
danielsKeybuk: meh06:59
eruinman I need to man find07:02
=== lamont really walks out the door
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eruindaniels: can I ask you for another one? the find pattern to match all *~ files ? :P07:05
tseng-iname *~ ?07:06
smurfixdaniels: nope07:06
smurfixdaniels: same result. I can send you the xorg.log if that'd help.07:07
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eruintseng: cheers ;)07:07
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Kamionfabbione: yeah, linux-kernel-di-* is different because it's only one architecture per source package07:10
Kamiontseng: just -name will do there07:11
tsengi always use -iname out of habit07:11
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danielsfabbione: have you got a link to the agp problems?07:22
danielssmurfix: er yeah, thanks07:22
spotteris there a good reason why pgp4pine is in multiverse, but pine isn't?07:22
smurfixdaniels: daniel.stone@canonical ?07:22
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danielssmurfix: yah07:27
smurfixdaniels: sent.07:28
danielssmurfix: try removing the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines07:33
danielsif that fails, remove the DPMS line07:33
daniels(all Section "Monitor")07:33
smurfixdaniels: you're looking at the wrong Monitors section07:35
smurfixdaniels: you want the one named "Test"07:35
smurfixdaniels: iow, they already are commented off07:35
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danielssmurfix: bah07:38
danielswhat about if you take out all the custom modelines?07:38
RubenVis there an ubuntu specific anacron maintainer?07:40
smurfixI can do that. They did work a few months ago, so I kinda doubt that'll change anything. But I'll try.07:40
bob2RubenV: no07:40
RubenVi've just made a quick patch to add lsb functions to the init script07:40
danielssmurfix: so was it working right before you upgraded radeon_drv?07:40
bob2RubenV: send it to debian's bts07:40
Kamionbob2: no, don't07:41
KamionRubenV: lsb functions are Ubuntu-specific, please file them in our BTS07:41
RubenVbob2: do they accept those?07:41
RubenVthought so07:41
RubenVok, coming up07:41
RubenVit's just a quick fix though07:41
bob2oh, oops, the lsb pretty printing thing07:41
smurfixI was working up until ~three months ago, with the xfree that's no longer in Sarge either.07:42
eruinfind relies on having an uptodate db07:42
smurfixdaniels: s/I/It07:43
danielssmurfix: with XFree86 4.2.1?07:43
RubenVno anacron module?07:43
RubenVi'll just put it under cron then07:43
smurfixdaniels: probably. I didn't actually reboot for a long time and then was way too busy to reboot the system all the time to narrow the problem down. :-/07:44
danielssmurfix: could you please email the log from a working setup (preferably one with CRT, one with TFT) to benh@kernel.crashing.org, complete with your config and a quick description of the problem, and mention that it's broken both with 6.8.1's radeon_drv, and the patch that he sent me last night?  cc me as well please07:44
danielssmurfix: heh07:44
danielssmurfix: well, if you could get an email off, that would be great07:44
smurfixdaniels: yeah, I'll have to dig up an older xfree from Snapshots and all that, but apparently there's no fucking way around doing the work. :-/07:45
smurfix(so what else is new)07:45
danielssmurfix: yeah07:46
danielssmurfix: oh, for the email, he doesn't need a working log -- just a broken one should be sufficient07:46
RubenVgonna be cleaning up some more init scripts07:46
RubenVjust to contribute something07:46
smurfixdaniels: OK, that does limit the effort somewhat ;-)07:47
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KamionRubenV: don't put it under cron please07:52
KamionRubenV: if there's no appropriate package, use UNKNOWN07:52
smurfixgaleon is broken in hoary. It's linked to nautilus.so.2 which the latest update renamed to nautilus-private. :-/07:52
RubenVKamion: aw, sry, too late :s07:52
KamionRubenV: reassigned07:53
RubenVdoing the alsa script now07:53
RubenVthat does have a pkg :)07:53
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RubenVvoila, no more ugly starting ALSA08:15
RubenVand now it's time for some studying08:15
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Mithrandirthom: I think I found a bug in apache.  wrt multiviews.08:34
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azeemin theory, I could go an sell Ubuntu-CDs via the web, right?08:44
RubenVas long as you obey the gpl08:45
RubenVi think :)08:45
zulhe isnt modifying or removing the license08:45
bob2yes, but he is distributing gpl code08:46
zuloh yeah..duh08:46
tsengew @ openoffice 1.1.308:48
tsengfails on missing kdelibs4-dev08:49
_rene_we had that discussion this afternoon08:49
__danielOOo depends on kdelibs?08:50
_rene_openoffice.org-kde does08:50
_rene_and so the source build-deps on kdelibs4-dev08:50
=== __daniel gets the collywobbles
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MdI'm trying to understand how udev-udeb is being used. I see no init script in the package and no postinst to create the rules. who knows more?09:09
MdI can't remember Colin Watson's nick09:10
KamionMd: that's me09:10
KamionMd: it's all still in development and wildly unsuitable for sarge, which is why I haven't sent the patches back yet09:10
KamionMd: rootskel does all the init work09:10
MdKamion: I started merging some parts of it, feel free to send any kind of patches or comments09:11
Kamionok, fair enough, but I think it would be a good idea to keep it out of sarge; I'm scared what would happen if udev-udeb showed up in the debian-installer Packages file09:11
Astharothi Md :)09:11
Kamionsomething might decide to install it :)09:11
MdBTW, you don't need -pudev for dh_link because it's the default and you don't need -a for dh_installdirs because all debian/*.dirs files are always processed anyway09:12
KamionMd: rootskel pretty much has to have control of the early init process in d-i - it's too custom09:12
KamionMd: yeah, that's true09:12
KamionI think I thought the former was clearer despite the default09:12
MdKamion: yes, I'm just adding some code to debian/rules but the package will not be generated by default09:12
Kamionok, cool09:12
Kamionat some point soon I'll be mailing debian-boot and all the affected maintainers with the work I've done09:12
Mddo you have an URL for the rootskel file which deals with the rest?09:13
Kamionbut I don't want to distract too much from sarge with shiny things09:13
amudo we have a kernel with benh's sleep-support for a G4 ? 09:13
Kamionamu: afraid not09:13
KamionMd:    libiw27 |       27-1 |       testing | alpha, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc09:13
KamionMd: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/r/rootskel/rootskel_1.09ubuntu3.dsc09:13
KamionI put it next to the existing devfs code09:14
amuKamion: stupid question, why not?  09:15
Kamionamu: no kernel maintainer for hoary right now09:15
MdKamion: /.dev is definitely not necessary for d-i09:16
danielsamu: that's an update to 2.6.9 + the patch09:16
KamionMd: noted, will fix09:16
amuubuntu-ppc without sleep, is like you go undressed to bed :( 09:16
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KamionI wasn't sure09:16
amudaniels: no prob with it, just woundert is there something like this atm09:18
KamionMd: is it likely to be possible to use udev without having hotplug at all? it would be nice to be able to switch Debian over one step at a time rather than all at once09:19
MdKamion: you need at least /sbin/hotplug. what's wrong with the rest of the program, anyway?09:20
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Kamionswitching d-i to hotplug is non-trivial; it requires an overhaul of the hardware detection architecture09:20
KamionI'm working on it but it's not the work of five minutes09:20
MdKamion: oh, you mean coldplugging. it's not mandatory, look at the init script to see how to disable it09:21
Kamionwe could certainly install some kind of dummy /sbin/hotplug in the meantime09:21
MdKamion: /sbin/hotplug does nothing by itself, look at it09:21
KamionI know, I've been looking at it and friends for much of today :)09:21
Kamionit can't be called /sbin/hotplug in d-i incidentally, for annoying reasons09:22
Kamionwe have to activate it only after pivot_root09:22
Kamionif you call it /sbin/hotplug then udevd gets started up in the first initrd and prevents it being unmounted09:22
KamionI ran into that straight away09:23
Kamionso I just call it /sbin/hotplug.real instead and echo that into /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug shortly after pivot_rooting09:23
Mdso don't put it in the first initrd... what am I missing? or make it just exit if everything it needs is not there09:23
Kamionyou have to put it in the first initrd, or you don't get it until after the first round of hardware detection09:24
Kamiond-i has no way to install additional udebs until then09:24
lucas_Kamion: how big is a full ubuntu mirror ? debmirror is broken, so I need to get everything. but I'm not sure if it will fit on my disk.09:25
Mdthen I think it should be patched to exit until the environment is OK, it looks simpler09:25
Kamionhow should it tell?09:25
Kamionthere is no significant difference in the filesystem between before pivot_root and after, apart from /dev being populated09:26
Md[ -e /some/file ]  || exit 009:26
Mdat worst you will have to create a flag file09:26
Kamionthe first initrd is copied wholesale to the ramdisk09:26
KamionI think I prefer the current approach TBH, it's easier to understand and doesn't seem fragile09:26
MdI find easier to understand *my* approach :-)09:27
Kamionif I patch /sbin/hotplug then that patch needs to be on the real system as well - I don't want the code to differ between deb and udeb09:27
Kamionso a flag file doesn't sound like an option ...09:28
Mdthat's OK, I maintain hotplug and can do this :-)09:28
Kamionoh, I thought that was ukai09:28
MdI'm the co-maintainer09:29
lucas_***lucas@ubuntu2:/space/ubuntu-mirror/pool$ ls -l universe/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb09:30
lucas_lrwxrwxrwx    1 lucas    lucas          72 Nov 25 13:55 universe/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb -> ../../../../pool/multiverse/x/xmms-liveice/xmms-liveice_1.0.0-6_i386.deb09:30
Kamionhm, speaking of, a hook in hotplug to allow feeding back module names to whatever's calling the rc scripts would be really nice ... :-)09:30
Kamionbut, looking at the code, it seems very non-trivial to add such a hook09:30
lucas_there are symlinks looping to themselves on the archive :/09:30
MdKamion: what?09:30
Kamionlucas_: I believe something on the wiki tells you09:30
KamionMd: look at how hw-detect interacts with discover and you'll understand09:30
KamionMd: especially the bit that allows the user to enter module parameters for each module that's going to be loaded09:31
Mdthe major problem with hotplug is that it should be completely rewritten to remove all compatibility code for 2.2 and 2.4 kernels...09:31
Kamionlucas_: my warty+hoary mirror for amd64+i386+powerpc is just over 10GB09:31
mdzMd: also the udev race conditions seem to need hotplug changes to be fixed09:31
MdKamion: module parameters are managed by modprobe, not hotplug09:31
Mdmdz: which race?09:31
KamionMd: there is no way for d-i to know in advance what modules are going to be loaded so that it can ask09:32
lucas_Kamion: ok, thanks09:32
mdzMd: between the completion of the modprobe process and the creation of the device node09:32
mdzso that modprobe <module> && work with /dev/foo works as expected09:32
Mdmdz: it will never be fixed, there is no easy way to do it and the maintainer says to use dev.d09:32
KamionMd: I would like to be able to know when each module is going to be loaded so that I can ask the user if they want to supply any options to it, basically09:33
KamionMd: we can do this with discover because it just gives back a list of module names it wants rather than loading them itself09:33
MdKamion: I see your point, but if users know that some modules need options they probably know their names as well09:33
KamionMd: there's nowhere for d-i to ask that though09:33
KamionMd: people could drop to a terminal and do it, but that's hardly acceptable UI09:33
MdKamion: I think this could be added to hotplug without too much work, BTW09:34
mdzMd: that works for some cases, but not others09:34
MdKamion: there is no reason to use a terminal09:34
mdzpppd, for example, doesn't make sense as a dev.d script09:34
Kamionhow should people add options in the context of d-i then?09:34
MdKamion: you present users with a dialog with input fields for a module name and its options09:35
KamionMd: in debconf? good luck09:35
Mdmdz: OTOH in this case you already know the device name09:35
Kamionmdz: /lib/debian-installer-startup.d/S40framebuffer-module-linux-x86 is another example09:36
KamionI've had several cases recently where /dev/fb/0 simply never appeared09:36
Kamionit's as if the event vanished somewhere between hotplug and udev09:36
mdzMd: true, but polling waiting for the device node to appear is such a hack09:36
Kamionbut I haven't been able to reproduce it reliably enough to debug it; it seemed to go away when I started poking at it09:36
Mdmdz: agreed. but I'm not going to fight this anymore, you people should subscribe to the linux-hotplug mailing list09:37
mdzMd: I wish I could follow the mailing lists for every project that I work with, but unfortunately it is too much09:37
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Kamionthe problem with using /etc/dev.d for the framebuffer stuff is that checking to see whether /dev/fb/0 has appeared seems to be about the only reliable way to tell whether the framebuffer module loaded properly or not09:39
Kamionparticularly with vesafb and vga16fb; they can load and then not work09:40
Kamionso /etc/dev.d doesn't really work; you still have to say "we're going to wait for a while to see if this worked, otherwise give up" :-(09:40
MdBTW, you should use "sleep 0.1" instead of "sleep 1"09:40
Kamionis that implemented in busybox?09:41
Mdif it works in busybox09:41
Kamionit doesn't seem to be09:41
Kamionit just uses sleep(3)09:42
KamionI would certainly prefer finer granularity09:42
Kamionthen again, it seems to take as long as five or six seconds for the device to appear on my test laptop09:42
KamionI'd love to know what the system is doing for that time09:43
Mdme too. in this case I find hard to blame fb brokeness on udev :-)09:43
Kamionoh, I'm not blaming udev exclusively, but it does make things harder to follow that's all :-/09:43
Kamionstill, getting rid of devfs *was* nice09:44
Mdit was a bad idea from the start to use devfs for hardware detection, but nobody listened...09:45
Kamionnothing else was available at the time09:45
Kamionfor d-i, that is09:45
Mdit was a bad idea to not target 2.6 kernels from the start as well :-)09:45
Kamionyou do realise d-i development started four years ago right?09:45
Kamionit's not good strategy to develop for a kernel you can't run yet :)09:46
Mdmaybe not from the start, but one year ago09:46
dokoelmo: please sync openoffice.org-debian-files, when openoffice.org 1.1.3 enters hoary09:46
Kamioncould be; we've been gradually moving over09:46
Kamionmy experience so far certainly tends to support my opinion that moving to udev/hotplug in a hurry would not have been a good idea from a stability/permanent-releasability point of view09:47
smurfixMd: even half a year ago I wouldn't have depended on 2.6 exclusively.09:47
KamionI'm somewhat worried for hoary actually; I'd much prefer if we were getting the massive attention that d-i changes in Debian get, for a change this sweeping09:47
Kamionbut we're committed to it09:47
Kamionmdz: oh, do you mind if I add pciutils-udeb, usbutils-udeb, and libusb-0.1-udeb? I need pci.ids and usb.ids now that discover1-data is no longer around to provide the names of network interfaces for netcfg's UI09:48
Kamionmdz: which I had totally not thought about in advance09:48
azeemKamion: joeyh said you will open up the d-i branch for etch soon, so if you merge it early, you'll get enough testing there as well, hopefully09:48
azeemyou == the d-i guys09:48
Kamionmdz: and getting lspci and lsusb will probably be a bonus for debugging purposes, too09:49
Kamionazeem: yeah, I'm very much hoping so09:49
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Kamionazeem: I have a number of other changes I want to merge, but which are too untried for sarge09:52
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fabbioneKamion: how is the build going?09:59
=== fabbione is curious as hell
Kamionmake[1] : Entering directory `/home/cjwatson/src/ubuntu/linux-source-'10:02
KamionThe changelog says we are creating, but I thought the version is
Kamionmake[1] : *** [stamp-debian]  Error 110:02
Kamionoh, damnit, I probably need Ubuntu's kernel-package10:02
fabbioneargh.. yes10:03
MdROTFL! I just noticed that the new udev makefile prints init-style green "[OK] " labels instead of the whole command line10:03
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fabbioneMd: green? it's white here10:03
fabbionenever miind10:04
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Kamionfabbione: trying again, off to the pub now10:09
fabbioneKamion: have fun :-)10:09
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elmodoko: nothing to sync?10:27
dokoelmo: ahh, ok, from experimental, or should this be directly uploaded?10:38
Mithrandirfabbione: pong?10:43
fabbioneMithrandir: #debian-women10:44
fabbionei was trying to convice your gf to build a kernel for me :-P10:44
Mithrandirhehe :)10:44
Mithrandirwhat arch?10:44
MithrandirI don't think she has an account on any amd64 box10:45
fabbionewe need to fix this, don't we? ;)10:45
fabbionewell it's easy10:45
Mithrandirshe just doesn't have any account on my home box, is that so weird? :)10:45
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fabbionejust grab linux-source-<whatever>-17.d*10:45
fabbioneMithrandir: apply this: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/17_to_18.diff10:46
fabbioneand build10:46
fabbioneit needs to be done in hoary10:46
fabbioneeven if you tell me in 2 days or tomorrow late evening if it works, it will be more than fine10:47
Mithrandirapplied against what kernel source?10:47
fabbioneMithrandir: we have only one10:49
fabbionethat applied to the entire package10:49
=== Mithrandir runs apt-get source
Mithrandiryeah, but my DSL is only at about 260KB/sec atm.10:50
fabbioneyeah don't worry...10:50
fabbioneeven tomorrow is fine10:51
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jdubdoko: can we remove the kde depends/packages from OOo in the mean time, before haggai and _rene_ add their optional foo?10:55
dokojdub: I'll have a look, but maybe let's wait for the first problem reports before the next upload.10:58
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jdubdoko: if it depends on kdelibs4-dev, it won't build.10:59
jdubdoko: OOo is sitting there happily not building.10:59
jdubdoko: so i have a problem report and a solution for you ;-)10:59
seb128jdub: how is flumotion package going ? thomasvs was asking about it11:03
jdubseb128: haven't spent time on it since the initial packaging - have to upgrade and upload.11:03
elmodoko: synced11:04
jdubseb128: will probably do it over the weekend, can't today.11:04
seb128jdub: ok11:04
_rene_we probably could do it fairly quick... I just need a package which reliably is in ubuntu but not in debian ;-)11:07
_rene_the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS logic is already written...11:07
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Matt|hoary: anyone got totem working?11:10
dokojdub: ok, will do another one ...11:10
_rene_ok, if anyone wants to tell me that package, mail me ;-)11:13
Matt|hey guys is totem working ok in hoary? just crashes on startup here11:13
thomMithrandir: oh?11:18
jdubdoko: i was going to do a quick revision here, but 171MB... OWCH :)11:21
jdubMatt|: load it with a file11:21
Matt|jdub, ok i'll try11:21
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Matt|jdub, yeah that works ok11:22
jdubknown bug, hopefully there'll be a new release soon11:22
Matt|upstream bug?11:23
Matt|ok thanks v much11:23
Mithrandirthom: go to http://err.no/personal/wishlist/ 11:23
Matt|it is a recent thing11:23
dokojdub: yes, that's why I didn't upload it with my 16kB upstream ...11:23
Mithrandirthom: but I'm off to bed now.  Talk to you in the morning11:23
jdubdoko: i'm tempted to do it on chinstrap or something11:23
jdubdoko: man, my upstream is fatter than that - if you don't want to do it, let me know11:24
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dokoit's on adare for now, I just didn't want to upload the binaries.11:26
jdubyou only need to upload the diff11:27
elmoyou only CAN upload the diff11:27
dokoyes, working on it ...11:27
jdubelmo: so, the mp3 stuff in debian - what led to it being acceptable?11:28
elmojdub: *shrug* decoding's never not been accepted - at the time, the consensus was it was as valid as the lzw decompress patent, i.e. not11:29
elmooh, and infact, I think Thompson explicitly said free decoders were okay or something too11:29
jdubwell, lzw stuff led to libgd-nonfree and friends11:30
pittimdz: nice de-rootification hints, thanks for them11:30
seb128jdub: please comment on #4092 :)11:30
elmojdub: only for encode11:30
elmojdub: decode was always accepted11:30
elmothat's why we had web browsers in main...11:31
elmoor image viewers or...11:31
elmoand why libungif existed11:31
jdubseb128: that's the ffmpeg thing?11:31
seb128jdub: yes11:31
jdubseb128: oddly, this is related ;)11:31
jdubelmo: so the 'debian stance' is that the patents cover encoding, not decoding, so let's get on with it?11:32
elmookay, I may have made up the point about Thompson not going after decoders at one stage - I only vaguely recall reading that, and can't find a reference11:32
elmojdub: err, no - the consensus at the time, as I remember it was that the mp3 decode patent wouldn't stand up11:32
jduband i can't remember them ever saying anything positive about non-thomson Free implementations11:32
jdubelmo: whoa, okay11:33
jdubelmo: so, ffmpeg stuff.11:33
elmoremember, that's partially based on lzw precedent - unisys claimed decode on that too, and we (and gzip upstream who did a lot of research into it) thought that was bogus too11:33
elmobut Debian really isn't a good example, we do a lot of legal stuff that's dubious basically through lethargy.. e.g. it took us years to start enforcing GPL vs. SSL conflicts11:34
elmojdub: what's that do?11:34
jdubso if debian thinks a patent is bogus, you'll ship until there's judgement or injunction11:35
jdubffmpeg viciously violates every mpeg related patent known to man11:35
elmojdub: *shrug* I'm really not comfortable answering questions about "what debian does" - I can't speak for them , but historically we have yes11:35
seb128ffmpeg is staying in NEW for months :p11:35
elmojdub: more so than the existing stuff we have?11:36
elmoe.g. xine, SDL's plaympeg etc.?11:36
jdubdoesn't debian's xine disable its ffmpeg stuff?11:36
=== jdub checks
jdubffmpeg is copy'n'pasted in lots of things11:37
jdubso it's a hard one11:37
jdubseb128: 'longtemps' in french?11:37
seb128you start with the big "everybody speaks french" plan ? :)11:38
jdubheh, what does it mean? :)11:38
seb128a long time11:38
seb128I thought you were reaction to my <seb128> ffmpeg is staying in NEW for months :p11:38
jdubyeah ;)11:38
jdubbut no11:38
jdubmy french is not that good11:38
jdubi just saw it on vuntz's jabber status :)11:39
seb128oh ok11:39
jdub'parti pour longtemps' -> fun :)11:39
seb128he he11:39
jdubi think xine uses a limited ffmpeg11:40
seb128jdub: about ffmpeg, dunno what sam did exactly with the package waiting in NEW, but usually he does really good work11:40
elmosam is usually very careful with patents11:40
jdubseb128: is that gst-ffmpeg or ffmpeg itself?11:40
jduboh no, it has libavcodec in it too11:41
elmothe main question is if the ffmpeg in NEW does encode - we have decoders in main (-> precedent), we don't, AFAIK, have any encoders11:41
seb128taaz is waiting on ffmpeg to upload gst-ffmpeg ... that's not needed, but since no decision is taken about ffmpeg ...11:41
jdubso it's sitting in NEW purely because it's controversial?11:41
mirakj'ai cr un fichier   "-f2" par megarde11:41
mirakje ne parviens pas a le virer11:41
mirakavec tm11:42
mirakbon je l'ai vir avec konqueror11:42
mirakmais j'ai pas trouv comment faire avec rm11:42
mirakil croit en effet que je lui passe une option11:43
seb128mirak: ECHAN imho11:43
_rene_mirak: and if not ECHAN, ELANG anyway11:43
seb128mirak: that's #ubuntu-devel ...11:43
_rene_mirak: this is an english-speaking channel...11:43
mirakI am tired11:44
mirakmy bad11:44
smurfixmirak: so go to sleep11:44
jdubi can't understand what you are talking about, but i would defend to the death your right to say... whatever it is.11:44

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