pascmirak: stick a ./ in front of the file name12:02
seb128yes, that works too :p12:03
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pittielmo: still here?12:13
_rene_pitti: besides the fact that 1.1.3-2 is b0rked, 1.1.2dfsg1-3 and 1.1.3-2 have the l10n-* changes12:14
elmopitti: yeah12:14
pitti_rene_: heh, nice12:14
pittielmo: klogd     5192  0.1  0.2  2560 1472 ?        Ss   00:12   0:00 /sbin/klogd -P /var/run/klogd/kmsg12:14
pittielmo: ^^^^^   another item gone from your list :-)12:14
=== pitti grins
elmoI thought you couldn't do that ?12:15
pittielmo: it's night, remember?12:15
pittithe DEROOTIFICATOR strikes back12:15
pittielmo: no, of course I had to cheat12:15
pittielmo: klogd is now run as unprivileged user right from the start12:16
jdubazeem: your new multisync has Depends: evolution (<< 1.5) on the evo plugin12:16
pittielmo: I added an option to read an alternative /proc/kmsg location (a pipe /var/run/klogd/kmsg)12:16
jdubpitti: man, you are rocking on the derootification12:16
pittielmo: and have a root process (a mere 'dd') which pipes /proc/kmsg to /var/run/klogd/kmsg12:16
pittielmo: I know it's an evil hack, but it works great12:17
pittielmo: and so we separated the root task from all the parsing stuff which is now done purely as user12:17
pittijdub: thanks :-)12:17
elmopitti: rock on12:17
pittiwell, bedtime now12:18
pittiI do some further cleanups and tests and upload tomorr12:18
fabbioneapplying patch sparc64-syslog-register to ./ ... ok.12:19
fabbionethe kernel starts to take shape12:20
fabbioneMUHA MUHA MUHA12:20
pittifabbione: how far is the porting effort?12:20
fabbionepitti: i am building the "golden debs"12:20
pittifabbione: btw, will we all get a free sparc64 when you are done?12:20
fabbionebasically ubuntu on top of ubuntu12:20
pittifabbione: "golden"?12:20
=== pitti has never seen a Color: attribute in debian/control
fabbioneand i am hacking around the kernel now12:21
pittifabbione: wait, tomorrow the kernel will run as normal user :-)12:21
pittifabbione: btw, the platform supported by Debian is "only" sparc32?12:22
pittifabbione: I had woody on a sparc64 once; you are now building the whole userland for 64 bit?12:22
fabbionepitti: ETOOMANYQUESTIONS12:23
fabbionepitti: oh yeah.. kernel as user ehhehe12:23
fabbionepitti: it depends from the kernel.12:23
fabbionebut the userland is always 99.9% 32bit12:24
fabbioneit's just faster12:24
sjoerdfabbione: btw. alsa is now working on my U5, you might want too look at the patches for that (as your doing kernel stuff)12:24
fabbionesjoerd: sure.. right now i need to get the packages to compile12:25
fabbioneand give some love to the config12:25
fabbionesjoerd: do you have idea why sparc have nsdiwrapper support?12:28
fabbioneisn't that a i386/m$ thingy?12:28
pittiSolaris drivers for Linux/sparc?12:28
sjoerdfabbione: huh ?12:29
MdNDIS is a windows technology, I can't see how solaris enters the picture12:29
pittiMd: just guesssing :-)12:29
=== fabbione wonders why i was prompted for it
elmobecause our kernel patch isn't very ipcky12:29
fabbioneelmo: ok thanks12:30
Mddoes ubuntu have some modem autodetection script? I'm pondering about what to do with /dev/modem12:30
fabbioneMd: nope...12:30
MdI suppose it's possible to send ATIwhatever to all serial ports and check if something comes back, but doing this at every boot could take too much time. and I do not even want to think about what happens if something which is not a modem is connected to the port...12:33
elmoanyone here use apt-move ?12:34
fabbionegood night guys12:35
fabbionecya in 5/6 hours12:35
pittinight fabbione 12:35
_rene_Md: wvdialconf does something like that...12:41
_rene_Md: (just used it some time ago)12:41
pittigood night everybody!12:51
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eruinany of you have an idea as to what might be causing either a very long wait time after failing to insert pciehp/shpchp (operation not permitted) or a complete system halt (on boot)?01:22
eruinI see rp_filter. after it the times it doesn't actually halt my system (which is about 1/2 of the time), then setting up network01:22
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eruinI've got one connected eth and one not connected, and I'm thinking this is more an issue with that fact than hotplug after reading bug #186901:22
haggaieruin: long waits are often caused by unreachable dns servers.  Did you try commenting out all nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf?01:25
eruinno, but I will do01:26
__danielgood night02:02
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lamontif someone rolled isdnutils forward from libstool 1.4, then we could move it to universe...03:08
lamont(it's ftbfs on amd64)03:08
sladenpitti: sweet klogdness!03:40
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jdubdoko: woo! :)07:52
doko:) morning, did the build start?07:54
fabbionemorning guys08:02
jdubdoko: i don't think i get to see running logs08:02
fabbionehey jdub08:03
jdubyo fab :)08:03
fabbionejdub: i think soon you will be able to run hoary on sparc08:03
jdubrad :)08:08
jdubhow's kernel stuff?08:08
fabbionebuilding now08:08
fabbioneit still needs love, i am only checking the patches right now08:09
fabbionethere is a few things that needs to be added properly08:09
fabbionethe major blocker atm is silo08:09
fabbionebecause it build-dep on gcc-2.9508:10
fabbioneit compiles fine with other gcc's08:10
fabbionebut apparently it doesn't always work08:10
fabbioneso someone will have to test it for me08:10
fabbione(because i only have ONE sparc that it is actually building)08:10
fabbionejdub: do you feel brave enough to give it a shot?08:11
jdubyeah, maybe on my U508:11
fabbionejdub: cool08:11
jdubthen on the 220R :)08:12
fabbionejdub: just grab silo from there08:12
fabbionedon't use the other debs, because they are not all of them yet08:12
jdubi should try silo with a sarge install?08:12
fabbionejdub: it doesn't matter on which distro08:13
fabbioneit's just recompiled with gcc-3.3 instead of 2.9508:13
jduboh right08:13
fabbionethere are no package or code changes08:13
jduboh, sorry, missed your "only one sparc" bit :)08:14
jdubi'm tempted to put my sata disks in the sparc now...08:14
jdubno idea if it'll boot off them though. i suppose it wouldn't.08:15
fabbioneobp is pretty anal08:15
fabbioneeither IDE or SCSI08:15
jdubdoko: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/o/openoffice.org/1.1.3-2.3ubuntu2/openoffice.org_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu2_20041126-0708-i386-failed08:18
jdubdoko: hrm08:18
=== HcE m tisse
HcEops :$ wrong #08:37
fabbioneHcE: go and take your piss :P08:38
HcEnorwegian should be a far off language only I understood08:39
HcEand of course the persone I was supposed to talk to08:39
fabbioneHcE: i only understand a bit of danish/swedish/norvegian08:39
fabbionebut that "bit" is pretty common08:39
fabbioneto all of them08:39
HcEyour not dannish?08:40
fabbionei am italian08:40
fabbionei live in dk08:40
HcEonly live in .dk?08:40
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HcEcan't go to the toilett before I've check new packages from Debian08:41
HcEthe days big highlight08:42
HcEhappy to see wxWidget 2.5.3 as a .deb finally08:42
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fabbionemorning pitti09:22
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=== sid77 ciao
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mdzpitti: here?09:45
fabbionemorning mdz09:45
=== fabbione starts the really boring part of udebs integration
Mithrandirfabbione: I ran out of disk space last night, redoing build now.09:51
fabbioneMithrandir: ah cool09:51
fabbioneMithrandir: 8012 -rw-r--r--   1 sparcbuildd sparcbuildd  8191682 Nov 26 08:04 linux-image-
jdubwoo :)09:52
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fabbioneMithrandir: we might have problems with silo09:52
fabbioneas i explained to jdub09:52
fabbioneit needs testing :(09:52
fabbioneotherwise we will have to pull in gcc-2.95 for sparc in main09:52
fabbionehey seb09:55
Mithrandirew, ok.09:57
fabbionesomething is not properly working...10:05
fabbionethe merge doesn't create kernel-image udebs10:05
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=== sid77 re
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pittiHi mvo_, hi daniels!10:23
pittidaniels: btw, I can test the new radeon_drv if you want10:24
danielspitti: hey dude10:25
danielspitti: ah rad -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/powerpc-radeon_drv.o10:25
pittidaniels: anything I should test in particular?10:25
pittidaniels: shall I change anythign in Xorg.conf?10:26
fabbionedaniels: hey kid10:28
fabbionedaniels: libao needs to build-dep on libxau-dev, can you take care of it?10:28
mdznight all10:29
fabbionenight mdz10:29
pittiNight mdz!10:29
danielsfabbione: k10:29
danielsmdz: night dude10:29
danielspitti: ditch Option "UseFWPLL", that's about it10:30
fabbionedaniels: thanks10:30
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mvo_night mdz 10:31
pittidaniels: I already tried the new driver10:31
pittidaniels: still with the PLL option10:31
danielspitti: still works?10:31
pittidaniels: it behaves exactly like the very old one10:32
danielspitti: because I threw away the usefwpll patch10:32
danielspitti: rockin!10:32
pittidaniels: external works, internal one flickers10:32
pittidaniels: so, "no"10:32
danielspitti: oh, right10:32
danielshold on, there's an option for that10:32
pittidaniels: the last one you sent me worked fine10:32
pittidaniels: "very old one" == the version shipped in 6.8.1-0.210:32
danielspitti: does 'Option "LVDSProbePLL"' help?10:33
danielspitti: if not, does 'Option "NoLVDSProbePLL"' help?10:33
pittidaniels: first I try to remove UseFWPLL10:33
pittidaniels: then the other two10:33
pittidaniels: brb, I have to disconnect my monitor10:33
danielspitti: usefwpll should have no effect with the new radeon_drv (the one I put up last night)10:33
pittidaniels: oh, then the option should not make any difference?10:34
pittiindeed, no difference, still flicker. Let's try the other one10:35
azeemjdub: euh10:36
pittidaniels: no, neither option makes it work10:37
danielspitti: and it worked with my patch and UseFWPLL?10:37
pittidaniels: yes10:37
pittidaniels: it worked with the 2.3 MB driver you sent me 10:38
pittidaniels: md5sum 2b44a78a...10:38
pittidaniels: 2327838 bytes10:38
pittidaniels: ^^ this certainly included debugging symbols?10:38
danielscould you please email benh@kernel.crashing.org, CCing daniel.stone@canonical.com, send him your logs from both with LVDSProbePLL and with NoLVDSProbePLL, tell him it worked with my patch that pulls the PLL values from the registers, and just quickly describe your problem?10:38
danielspitti: yeah, it's only ~100kB stripped10:39
pittidaniels: 230 kB for me10:39
pittidaniels: anyway, do you want any logs?10:39
pittidaniels: shall I set any value for above option?10:39
pitti"true" or so?10:39
bob2hrm, my laptop doesn't wake up from sleep10:39
danielspitti: if you could just throw them all (with LVDSProbePLL and with NoLVDSProbePLL) in the email to myself and benh, that'd be great, thanks10:39
danielspitti: nope, just Option "LVDSProbePLL" or Option "NoLVDSProbePLL"10:40
pittidaniels: benh.get_email() == ?10:40
bob2tommorow I'd guess10:40
danielspitti: benh@kernel.crashing.org10:40
danielspitti: see the line just above 'yeah, it's only ~100kB stripped'10:40
pittioh, missed that one10:41
pittiI'll do10:41
pittidaniels: how I shall refer to this driver I just downloaded?10:41
pittidaniels: is it from any official version?10:42
fabbionethis is SOOOO evil!10:44
fabbioneone of the (2000) Makefiles clean targets remove without any check all files called kernel-image!10:44
fabbionethat of course.. disable the generation of the kernel-image*_udeb10:44
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danielspitti: tell him it's with his patch backported to the 6.8.x branch10:49
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lupus_The following packages have been kept back:10:56
lupus_  openoffice.org-debian-files10:56
lupus_what does it misses?10:56
lupus_I did dist-upgrade10:56
azeemlupus_: do apt-get install openoffice.org-debian-files and see10:57
mvo_lupus_: it looks like not all of openoffice has hit the archive yet10:58
lupus_so those 2 packages aren't available yet?10:58
mvo_it appears so10:58
mvo_openoffice.org is still 1.1.2 10:59
haggaidoko asked elmo to sync -debian-files once openoffice.org was ready, looks like he perhaps did it early11:05
azeemjdub: fixed now11:08
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fabbionelupus_: these kind of questions are more appropriate for #ubuntu11:27
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lupus_k sorry11:34
lupus_but I thought hoary = devel so :)11:34
lupus_but I missed the point of this channel I guess :)11:35
azeemlupus_: yeah, but 'apt-get dist-upgrade does not work' is not a good error report11:35
azeemin any case, stuff will break occasionally and people will be aware usually. If it is broken for a longer time, reporting it is fine I guess11:36
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jdubthom: GUS RELEASE!11:42
danielsjdub: ... gravis ultrasound?11:44
=== jdub ITPs
jdubdaniels: gnome-user-share11:44
Keybukjdub: what does that do?11:45
danielsjdub: NICE!11:45
danielsKeybuk: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-user-share/README?rev=1.2&view=auto11:45
danielsi so need to prise my mouldavia rewrite off trinity11:45
jdubKeybuk: user-policy sharing with apache+webdav :)11:45
Keybukah, cool11:46
fabbionejdub: apache1.3 or 2?11:46
fabbioneor it doesn't care?11:46
jdubfabbione: 2 man, 2 :)11:46
jdubit's *rad*11:46
fabbioneless bugs from lusers for me :P11:46
danielsjdub: mouldavia was still cooler11:47
fabbionedaniels: please libao :-)11:47
danielsfabbione: yes11:48
=== sid77 goddbye, all!
danielsfabbione: wtf, dude, are you sure?11:50
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/libao/libao-0.8.5% egrep -r '#include.*X' *11:50
danielsconfigure:#include <X11/Intrinsic.h>11:50
danielsconfigure:#include <X11/Intrinsic.h>11:50
fabbionedaniels: apt-get --purge remove libxau-dev11:58
fabbioneand build it11:58
fabbioneit will fail building one of the libraries11:58
fabbionethe makefile is retarted and doesn't notice11:58
fabbioneuntil it starts creating the deb11:59
fabbionewhere it will fail becuase ls .libs will return empty11:59
fabbionethere.. logs are on the way12:00
fabbionerepeatable on i38612:00
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danielswhat the hell?  i can't see that this package uses Xau at all12:06
fabbionechecking for XauFileName in -lXau... no12:07
fabbioneand it FTBFS without :-)12:07
fabbionechecking for X... libraries /usr/X11R6/lib, headers 12:07
danielsthe only place XauFileName is referred to is in autoconf files12:07
fabbionethis line will change once you install Xau12:07
danielsi know that.12:08
danielsbut it's not actually using any X headers or functions AFAICT12:08
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fabbioneah crap! first 2 spam mail via @canonical.com12:09
smurfixcan't escape them :-(12:10
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jvwwho do I mail for inquiries re sponsoring (the upcoming conference)? Mako? some role account?12:38
danielsjvw: mako@canonical12:39
jvwok, tnx12:39
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danielsKamion: ping12:43
_rene_Kamion, jdub: http://cvs.debian.org/oo-deb/debian/rules.diff?r1=
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lucas_Kamion: you there ? I'm now successfully generating iso images. I'd like to be able to replace some packages with my own now12:48
fabbioneMithrandir: how is going the build?12:48
lucas_I'd like to use the LOCALDEBS way12:48
Mithrandirfabbione: it built.12:49
fabbioneMithrandir: cool.. what about the udebs?12:49
lucas_but I don't understand which directory structure debian-cd expects in the local repository12:49
Mithrandirfabbione: there are udebs with non-zero size. :)12:49
fabbioneMithrandir: that sounds cool12:50
fabbioneit build.. it works :-)12:50
fabbionei just need to wait for Kamion to confirm ppc12:50
fabbioneeven if the version you built has 2 bugs12:50
fabbionei fixed them locally12:50
fabbioneit doesn't generate kernel*.udeb12:51
fabbioneand as a consequence it miscalculate the dependencies12:51
Mithrandiroh, ok.12:51
fabbionebut they look good here12:51
Mithrandirwe want kernel*udeb?12:52
fabbionedebdiff is happy12:52
fabbioneMithrandir: it's a missing $(touch modules/${arch}/kernel-image12:52
fabbionebut the missing file is related to something else12:53
fabbioneit must be one of the clean target that wipes it away12:53
fabbionebecause it always disappear12:53
Kamionfabbione: damnit, I ran out of disk space :-(12:55
fabbioneKamion: shit12:55
Kamionfabbione: can you use a porting box in the lan or something?12:55
Kamiondaniels: pong12:55
fabbioneKamion: than wait before you start12:56
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fabbioneKamion: i will give you another diff on top of 1712:56
fabbioneKamion: i fixed a couple of problems12:56
fabbione(see above)12:56
Kamion_rene_: dunno - you'd have to ask elmo/lamont whether lsb-release is installed on the buildds12:56
Kamionlucas_: mmkay, that's a little complex, let me see12:56
_rene_well, we build-dep on it, so ;-)12:56
_rene_that's the control.in part ;)12:57
Kamion_rene_: ah12:57
Kamionlucas_: LOCALDEBS is probably what you want, certainly12:57
lucas_Kamion: yes12:57
Kamionlucas_: do you have tla installed?12:57
lucas_Kamion: I tried to use apt-ftparchive to generate the packages and all12:57
fabbioneThe following lines in the control files differ (wdiff output format):12:57
fabbioneVersion: [-]  {+0.67ubuntu3+}12:57
fabbioneSection: [-devel-]  {+debian-installer+}12:57
fabbioneMaintainer: Debian [-kernel team <debian-kernel@lists.debian.org>-]  {+Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>+}12:57
lucas_Kamion: yes12:57
fabbioneSource: [-linux-source-]  {+linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6+}12:57
_rene_  * debian/control.in:12:57
_rene_    - add Builddep on lsb-release [RE] 12:57
_rene_    - change kdelibs4-dev builddep to kdelibs4-dev | ubuntu-artwork to12:57
_rene_      disable it for Ubuntu [RE] 12:57
_rene_  * debian/rules:12:57
_rene_    - use lsb_release -is to differentiate whether we build for Debian or12:57
fabbione[ new ]  { old }12:57
_rene_      Ubuntu and disable the KDE stuff when building on Ubuntu, thanks12:57
_rene_      Matthias Klose for the lsb_release hint. Honour12:57
_rene_      DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=withkde to enable build with KDE on Ubuntu [RE] 12:57
_rene_is the changelog entries12:57
Kamionfabbione: you do need Section: debian-installer12:58
Kamionfabbione: may have to change kernel-wedge to ensure that12:58
fabbioneKamion: yes.. 12:58
fabbionei was looking into it12:58
Kamionfabbione: just add '$pkg{Section}'="debian-installer";' on line 15412:59
Kamionfabbione: of commands/gen-control12:59
Kamionlucas_: tla register-archive http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--200412:59
fabbionei was doing the same :-)12:59
jdub_rene_: cool :)12:59
Kamionlucas_: tla get colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/cdimage--mainline--001:00
Kamionlucas_: bin/update-local-indices may help you01:00
jdubi have just uploaded the coolest 2.9 feature EVER01:00
lucas_Kamion: cool thanks a lot :)01:00
jdubit makes me very horny01:00
Kamionlucas_: except you'll need an apt-ftparchive.conf, hmm01:00
jdubthat is all01:00
lucas_Kamion: I wrote one, but I'm not sure about it01:01
seb128jdub: rock !01:01
fabbioneKamion: do you want to upload kernel-wedge with it?01:01
Kamionlucas_: http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/code/apt-ftparchive.conf is what I use01:02
jdubseb128: it's *really* cool01:02
Kamionlucas_: (I think the content-type's broken for that file, sorry)01:02
lucas_it's ok01:02
MithrandirKamion: text/plain is fine for that file?01:02
danielscalc: libao is broken to hell, dude01:03
Kamionfabbione: doing01:03
KamionMithrandir: hm, strange, the last time I looked at it in w3m the line-wrap was broken, but now it's fine01:04
=== Kamion blames the mad w3m coders
MithrandirKamion: wget claims it's text/plain at least.01:04
lucas_Kamion: btw, I'm documenting what I'm doing. no problem with the tla archive going public ?01:04
Kamionlucas_: not at all01:04
Kamionlucas_: I'm not sure what the licence ought to be on my code there; TBH there probably isn't an awful lot that's copyrightable anyway01:05
Kamionbut I'd have to check with Mark if you're creating derived works of it01:05
=== RubenV [~lambda1@kn-res.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lucas_well I hope I won't have to modify it too much ; I'm not that interested in hacking debian-cd ;)01:07
Kamionfabbione: 0.25ubuntu5 uploaded01:09
fabbioneKamion: cool!01:09
Kamion(and change committed to d-i svn)01:11
lamont_rene_: Kamion: chroot build/chroot-hoary dpkg -l lsb-release01:13
lamontNo packages found matching lsb-release.01:13
lamontit's not build-essential01:13
_rene_but we build-depend on it anyway, so no problem ;-)01:13
jdubelmo: ping01:14
elmojdub: ?01:14
=== lamont bbl
jdubelmo: can you kill g-u-s in NEW? i'm going to upload another one01:15
jdubthen could you let it through? :)01:15
fabbioneKamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/17_to_18.diff <- NEW with bug fixes01:16
fabbioneincluding the debian/control thing you mentioned yesterday01:16
Kamionfabbione: I'm still not going to have disk space to build it though ;)01:17
fabbioneKamion: i guess i will have to simulate a multi kernel thingy here than01:17
fabbionei need to verify that the archs with more than one kernel d-i set works01:18
Kamionfabbione: like I suggested earlier, can you get an account on a box in the LAN to do this?01:19
Kamionwe must have a powerpc porting system01:19
jdub$ dput ubuntu gnome-user-share_0.3-1_source.changes01:19
jdubAlready uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com01:19
jdubDoing nothing for gnome-user-share_0.3-1_source.changes01:19
jdub^ wtf?01:19
elmorm g-u-s*.upload01:19
fabbioneKamion: oh yeah... i didn't read the scrollback01:19
=== jdub growls at stupid stupids
fabbioneKamion: but i can simulate it locally01:20
jdubelmo: thanks01:20
fabbioneno big deal ;)01:20
fabbioneon the other side.. i want to be 200% sure01:20
fabbioneelmo: what is the new ppc porting box?01:20
danielsfabbione: davis01:20
fabbionedaniels: ok01:20
fabbioneelmo: can i get linux-source build-dep + kernel-wedge ?01:21
lupus_jdub, wouldn't it be better if you open websites that they are openend in a new tab by default?01:21
fabbione(version -4 is ok)01:21
fabbionefor kenrel-wedge01:21
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-4-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdublupus_: i think that's a good option for advanced users to enable01:21
lupus_why advanced users?01:22
lupus_if you give the new tab autofocus01:22
jdubbecause they'll know their page opened in the other window in a tab, instead of popping up straight in front of them (as reasonably expected)01:22
elmofabbione: done01:23
fabbioneelmo: thanks!01:23
lupus_if firefox is already open the current website is just changed, firefox doesn't get caption01:24
lupus_and as I user I would wonder why my other page went01:24
jdubnot with the current default settings01:25
jduba new window is opened01:25
jdub(unless we've had a reversion of those settings in hoary)01:25
jdub(which is not unlikely)01:25
lupus_ic sorry I have maybe some old settings lying around :p01:25
fabbioneKamion: how much did you diverge linux-kernel-di from debian kernel-di ?01:33
Mithrandirfabbione: how far from being debootstrappable is sparc?01:34
fabbioneMithrandir: it will take a while still01:35
fabbioneMithrandir: because i am building ubuntu on top of ubuntu01:36
fabbioneMithrandir: but sparc64 kernels are ready01:36
fabbioneMithrandir: i am going to drop sparc32 on the floor for now01:36
fabbioneif someone wants it, he will provide patches01:36
fabbionetheoretically i could upload the kernel in hoary01:37
fabbionebut since i have like 3 branches at the moment01:37
fabbionei would prefer to go for one at a time01:37
fabbionefirst udeb integration01:37
fabbionesparc integration01:37
fabbioneMithrandir: i would say that i should be able to give you all the debs in a week or so01:38
fabbioneit's only question of time basically01:38
Mithrandirfabbione: goodie.01:40
fabbione+ i am catching a bunch of FTBFS due to the xlibs split that we didn't notice in the first run01:41
fabbioneso that's even better01:42
Kamionfabbione: debdiff, man :)01:42
fabbionedaniels: 413201:42
Kamionfabbione: a bit01:42
fabbioneKamion: ?01:42
Kamionfabbione: firmware, extra modules, etc.01:42
Kamionfabbione: Debian uses linux-kernel-di-*, not kernel-di-*; using debdiff to see the differences is trivial01:42
danielsfabbione: eh?01:43
fabbionedaniels: #4132 <-01:44
danielsany specific reaosn why I won it?  or do you need it urgently or something?01:44
fabbionedaniels: because it's a FTBFS?01:44
elmowhee, expect is FUBAR in hoary01:46
Kamionpitti: isn't the LSB init stuff in lsb-base, not lsb-release?01:57
Kamionpitti: (re your anacron changelog)01:57
lucas_Kamion: tools/scanpackages generates errors when running apt-ftparchive :01:59
lucas_E: Could not open file /space/ubuntu-custom/scratch/tmp/warty-i386/CD1/dists/warty/local/binary-i386/Packages.gz.new - open (2 No such file or directory)01:59
pittiKamion: indeed01:59
lucas_E: Could not open file /space/ubuntu-custom/scratch/tmp/warty-i386/CD1/dists/warty/local/binary-i386/Packages.new - open (2 No such file or directory)01:59
lucas_E: Error Processing directory dists/warty/local/binary-i386/01:59
pittiKamion: I copied that from another package01:59
pittiKamion: so there is at least one other faulty package01:59
Kamionlucas_: might need to create those directories by hand01:59
pittiKamion: I'll fix it01:59
Kamionpitti: ta01:59
Kamionlucas_: er, not the directories under CD1, though02:00
Kamionlucas_: actually FWIW I get the same error in the official builds, it's harmless as far as I know02:00
KamionI should probably investigate it at some point02:01
lucas_the script responsible for copying the Packages to CD1/ should create the dir02:01
lucas_or they should be created before02:01
Kamionwell, not sure; local is weird in a few places02:02
Kamiondo you actually have anything in your local tree yet? the official builds (obviously) don't02:02
lucas_I do02:03
lucas_I rebuilt base-config02:03
Kamionhm, ok, it used to work fine for us though02:03
=== winkle [~winkle@lgh3814234.vittran.norrnod.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lucas_but debian-cd doesn't pick my local version02:03
Kamiondid you increase the version of base-config?02:03
jdubfabbione: do you recommend doing "libx11-dev | xlibs-dev, libice-dev | xlibs-dev" and so on, or just depending on xlibs-dev?02:04
fabbionejdub: nothing should Build-Dep on xlibs-dev02:04
danielsjdub: the former02:04
fabbioneyou need to just use the real Build-Dep02:04
danielsfabbione: makes backports hard oh shit 0% battery02:05
fabbionelibx11-dev, libice-dev, libdanielscrack-dev02:05
Kamionlucas_: try 'tools/apt-selection cache show base-config'02:05
=== jdub is doing a debian-compatible deb :)
fabbionejdub: still...02:05
lucas_correct version02:05
lucas_but I think I understand02:05
Kamionlucas_: your modified version?02:05
lucas_I mkdir -p /space/ubuntu-custom/scratch/tmp/warty-i386/CD1/dists/warty/local/binary-i386/02:06
lucas_then apt-ftparchive is able to generate the Packages on CD102:06
danielsjdub: you only want xlibs-dev if you want to be compatible with pre-4.302:06
lucas_so I just need to add the creation of this dir swhere in scanpackages02:06
Kamionlucas_: the issue is that nothing post-install expects local to be there02:06
jdubdaniels: oh02:06
jdubbugger that, then02:06
lucas_Kamion: it doesn't really matter for me02:07
Kamionlucas_: so you can generate a CD that way, but base-config probably won't get installed02:07
=== fabbione would really like to see xlibs-dev vanishing
Kamionlucas_: yes, it does :-)02:07
=== Matt| [~Matt|@81-179-205-129.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsfabbione: and -static-dev, and -static-pic02:07
lucas_so the best solution would be not to use local at all02:07
fabbionedaniels: these are a bit more hard to kill.. but yes02:08
Kamionlucas_: you might find that easier02:08
KamionI guess I should try using local for something again to make sure it still works the way I remember02:08
lucas_when apt-ftparchive finds 2 packages with the same name but different versions02:09
lucas_I expect it only writes the newer one in Packages ?02:09
Kamionlucas_: but really the only reason we have LOCAL turned on at all is that in the early days of Ubuntu development the archive wasn't quite usable for building installable CDs, but I had a few local hacks that made it more or less work so I used those temporarily02:09
Kamionlucas_: right, should do02:09
=== lucas_ thinking...
lucas_ok, it should do the trick02:10
KamionI've just turned LOCAL off for our builds02:10
Kamionlet's see if it keeps working02:10
lucas_it probably will02:10
lucas_it WFM before I enabled LOCAL02:10
Kamionfabbione: probably has to wait for a full Debian release cycle though; that's a *lot* of source packages to change02:11
Kamionfabbione: xlibs-dev is really handy too02:11
Kamionfor users02:11
danielsKamion: i dislike the entire idea of xlibs*02:12
pittiKamion: stupid me...02:12
danielsKamion: (not a rhetorical question, largely because I don't know the answer) do we have a gnome-dev?02:12
pittiKamion: anacron does depend on lsb-base, I just made the error in the changelog02:12
fabbioneKamion: yes i know.. :( but i plan to kill it in etch if Branden will allow me02:13
bob2daniels: gnome-devel02:13
fabbioneKamion: more than users.. we are talking about lazy maintainers02:14
Kamiondaniels: gnome-devel and gnome-core-devel, yeah02:14
danielswell, yeah02:14
danielsmaybe we should keep xlibs-dev and make it illegal to b-d on them (make dpkg-source break)02:14
Kamionfabbione: users are more important in the long run though02:14
danielseither that or just rename it to x-libraries-devel02:15
daniels-> users keep the metapackage to install, b-ds on xlibs-dev break and I get to go fix them all02:15
KamionI dislike the idea of creating a billion serious bugs just because you don't like a particular package02:15
Kamionthat's SO not fun02:15
fabbioneKamion: it's not like it will happen in sarge02:15
Kamionfabbione: so?02:15
fabbionethere is an entire release cycle to fix that02:16
Kamionfabbione: I don't want everything to go to shit after sarge either02:16
Kamionmodifying that many packages is HARD02:16
Kamionwe did it for /usr/share/doc, and it truly sucked02:16
Kamionit took two release cycles to get all the packages changed02:16
fabbioneKamion: yes i understand that...02:16
Kamionand it sucked up huge amounts of developer effort that was just a total waste of time02:16
Kamionyou're basically proposing deliberately wasting developer time02:17
jdubfabbione: yeah man, stop punching me in the face!02:17
fabbionenot really.. i am proposing to kill a meta package that is there because maintainers are lazy to figure out their build-dep02:17
fabbionei know it's not "nice"02:17
fabbionebut imho it's cleaner to know on what you really depend on02:18
fabbioneinstead of just pulling a gazillion of libs for nothing02:18
Kamion$ grep-dctrl -nsPackage -FBuild-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep xlibs-dev /var/lib/apt/lists/riva_debian_dists_unstable_main_source_Sources | wc -l02:18
KamionI'm sorry but I don't think that's acceptable02:18
Kamionyou must have a transition plan02:19
smurfixfabbione: the shlibdeps already tell that. Maybe we can use them to automate the transition.02:19
Kamionand removing xlibs-dev and fixing everything up afterwards isn't one02:19
danielsKamion: fixing everything up before?02:19
fabbioneKamion: xlibs-dev is already a transition to avoid breakage from X < 4.302:19
Kamiondaniels: that would be less bad02:19
fabbioneso i think it will be time with X > 6.8 to shake the dust away02:20
elmoI have to agree with kamion here - you're imposing a massive transition for aesthetics, not technical reasons and then trying to justify by blaming maintainers for being lazy02:20
Kamionfabbione: it's obviously not a completed transition, because it's still being used02:20
Kamionfabbione: realise that maintainers aren't AWARE that you think xlibs-dev is a lazy thing to use02:20
danielsi think 'lazy' isn't the right justification02:20
danielshaving properly articulated b-ds is a win02:21
elmodaniels: how?02:21
fabbioneDescription: X Window System client library development files transitional package02:21
Kamionalthough it is oldlibs - but I don't think it's been particularly widely announced, e.g. wishlist bugs on everything that b-ds on it02:21
fabbioneThis transitional package is02:21
fabbione only depended upon by packages that haven't yet corrected their dependencies to02:21
fabbione reflect the new library arrangement.02:21
elmoand how does this win counter-balance the massive transition effort involved?02:21
Kamionfabbione: how about you go file the wishlists to move away from it now?02:21
elmofabbione: dude, I have packages that depend on X and have done for years - what makes you think I would have read that description since it changed?02:21
danielselmo: eh, I'd rather like people to know what they actually use02:21
elmodaniels: how is that a technical win, dude02:22
fabbioneKamion: it will make more sense immediatly after sarge and do it properly, once, with Xorg split02:22
Kamionbrowser-history, certainly, I haven't uploaded that for ages02:22
elmodon't hand wave.  give me cold, hard, technical benefits that don't involve aesthetics02:22
danielsrather than just a rough sledgehammer 'oh right, so I'll install everything from the base authentication through to four toolkits'02:22
jdubelmo: with the Big X Split coming up, it will matter more02:22
danielselmo: not dragging in 200MB of crap you don't need02:22
danielsand yes02:22
elmojdub: why?02:22
jdubelmo: (i'm not taking sides here, but that is a valid point)02:23
elmoAFAIK xlibs-dev could still exist in a X split world, AFAICS02:23
danielsyes, it could02:23
jdubelmo: because those libs will be released separately02:23
Kamionfabbione: and for all of this we have to figure out how to get the changes into testing, which takes a lot of time in the real world02:23
danielsbut it's just a craptastic idea imo02:23
fabbioneelmo: don't get me wrong.. i understand why xlibs-dev exists...02:23
danielselmo: your packages don't depend on X, BTW02:23
elmodaniels: bzzt02:23
danielselmo: they likely depend on the general client-side X library, which is up for replacement02:24
Kamionthere's also random bits of documentation out there that say "to get X libraries on Debian, install xlibs-dev"; that documentation doesn't just go away02:24
elmoI maintain a KDE-based package - I think that's likely to depend on X02:24
jdubif you have to depend on a specific version, you'd have to switch or add a specific depends anyway02:24
danielselmo: 'depend on X' is handwavey random crap02:24
jdubdaniels: i don't get why gtk-dev doesn't have the right x dev depends02:24
danielsjdub: it doesn't?02:24
jdubthat just bit me with GUS02:24
fabbioneKamion: X usually moves in one shot in testing..02:24
elmodaniels: you know what I mean02:24
danielsjdub: then it needs updating02:25
Kamionfabbione: I'm not talking about X02:25
elmoso basically, the only technical reason you guys have is "so we install less as build-depends" .. mmk02:25
danielselmo: yes, I assume you depend on the general X11 client-side library, which is up for replacement (thus chaining through to the X authorisation library), and you probably depend on the library that provides a few extensions02:25
Kamionfabbione: I'm talking about nearly 800 other source packages, many of which will have fun interdependencies02:25
fabbioneKamion: but i see the complexity.. i am just saying that xlibs-dev was is already a transitional package and that can be killed doing thing properly02:25
danielselmo: possibly the I Can't Believe It's Not IPC library02:25
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i grok that02:25
jdubelmo: when the big X split happens, the difference between the libs will matter02:26
danielselmo: but probably not all of four toolkits02:26
danielselmo: and whatever random crap was in 'xlibs'02:26
Kamionfabbione: if the transition had been done properly I wouldn't be seeing nearly 800 build-deps in unstable right now02:26
jdubelmo: you will be depending on different versions02:26
Kamion(and that's only main)02:26
Kamionjdub: surely if the versions are being allowed to get wildly out of sync you lose anyway02:26
jdubelmo: up til now, it's always been one great big galumphing monolithic release02:26
jdubKamion: with x, no, because it's been api/abi stable for years anyway02:26
Kamionjdub: if xlibs-dev depends on say x-dev and libx11-dev, how does it make any difference if you write out the build-dependencies separately?02:27
Kamionjdub: metapackages and writing out build-deps separately are semantically identical02:27
jdubKamion: because you may need libx11-dev 56 and libice-dev 2302:27
=== stratus [~stratus@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielselmo: this is what you are build-depping on --02:27
jdubKamion: and which package owns xlibs-dev in future? and which versions does it depend on?02:27
Kamionjdub: uh-huh, so if you do you can say so02:27
fabbioneKamion: i don't have enough historical backgroud to tell what was done to inform developers that xlibs-dev is a transitional package, so i cannot comment on it. On the otherside this doesn't not mean that things can be still done02:27
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/xorg/arch/source/xorg-6.8.1/build-tree/xc/lib% ls -ld * | wc -l && du -sh . | tail -102:27
daniels701M    .02:27
Kamionfabbione: right, but it means that dropping xlibs-dev for etch is a highly ambitious goal02:28
jdubKamion: so you end up switching anyway :)02:28
danielselmo: if you're unable to further articulate your build-deps, then I'm sorry, but that's just crap02:28
elmodaniels: dude, grow the fuck up02:28
Kamionjdub: sure, in the unlikely event that say browser-history needs to02:28
elmoI'm not unable to articulate anything02:28
danielselmo: i understand that this is a change02:28
danielselmo: and that previously there was just xlibs02:28
jdubdaniels: the "you are lazy" reasoning doesn't help your case02:28
danielselmo: but what I'm trying to say here is that was *wrong*02:28
fabbioneKamion: i never said it was going to be easy, did I? ;)02:28
danielselmo: not meant to imply that this is your fault or that you're lazy or whatever02:28
danielsa non-specific, hand-wavey 'you'02:29
danielsKamion: (x-dev is an aberration anyway)02:29
elmodaniels: sorry, but it doesn't matter whether you're accusing me or the n hundred maintains of being "lazy or whatever", all it's doing is convincing me you have only religious reasons for this02:29
Kamiondaniels: so ... what am I supposed to do to get X11/Xos.h and X11/Xatom.h?02:29
danielsKamion: the selection of files for x-dev is ... odd02:30
Kamiondaniels: this isn't particularly helping your case either you know :)02:30
danielsKamion: sort of randomly picked from whichever files didn't neatly fit into whichever categories were picked as a first glance02:30
danielsKamion: i know02:30
danielsi'm just saying, that if I were designing it from the ground up right now, I know how I'd package it (largely because I already have packaged it, from the ground up)02:31
Kamionif maintainers get the impression that X is going to randomly move files around between development packages, they're fully entitled to say "screw it, I'll just b-d on the metapackage and that'll work no matter what they rearrange"02:31
danielsand that is not bundling 64 libraries with a 701MB build-tree into a single package02:31
danielsand that the result is rather a horror and I'd like it to go away02:31
=== RubenV [~lambda1@83-134-126-133.Leuven.GoPlus.FastDSL.tiscali.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsKamion: understood.  that's why I would rather like to reorganise it sooner rather than later, and then come out with a transition document (or, hell, even a semi-automated 'this is what you probably need to do for package <foo>' generator) describing it02:32
Kamionon the scale of 11 years of Debian development, and by comparison to say libc6-dev, X *does* randomly move files around, and expecting every maintainer to keep up with it when it's not clearly documented for them is a bit much02:32
fabbioneKamion: usually it happens only on major releases02:33
fabbioneKamion: but that's also an upstream decision02:33
smurfixKamion: so now's the chance, with the X split, to actually document it (and, dare I say, freeze the stuff...)02:33
fabbioneKamion: like the last library split. it was not our decision02:34
danielsKamion: right now, it's so utterly random because at the time we were doing the split, neither Branden nor I had an idea of what most of them did or belonged02:34
fabbioneKamion: upstream changed a bunch of libs from static to shared...02:34
danielsKamion: i did part of the xlibs split, so I'm thus partially to blame for the current craptastic situation02:34
KamionI'm just saying that preserving build-dep compatibility *is* important02:34
Kamioneven (or especially) if it's your (collective) mistake02:34
danielsKamion: the xlibs-static-* stuff was upstream realising that saying the Xinerama API was 'too fluid for a shared library' was arse02:34
danielsKamion: understood02:35
danielsKamion: i'm just saying, i will be happy when no packages b-d on xlibs-dev02:35
fabbioneKamion: i don't disagree.. but if some changes might require other maintainers to do some work, i am not going to ask the buildd to pull 200 libs because people can't change a line in debian/control02:36
fabbione^^missing: well.. they can move their butt and do it02:36
elmothe buildd couldn't CARE LESS02:37
elmoit has the 200 packages cached02:37
KamionI'm just wondering in what way you expect the release team to accept this02:37
elmothe time-to-install is noise on the big scale02:37
elmoplease do not use that as an argument, it's total BS02:38
Kamionit's entirely possible that britney might in the future decide to hold X out of testing until it stops breaking build-deps02:38
danielsKamion: neither of us are arguing to break B-Ds at the moment02:38
Kamionsince having britney enforce that sort of thing is high on the wishlist for post-sarge02:38
fabbioneelmo: i am not talking only about install time...02:38
elmoso what else is left?02:39
elmoremoval time?02:39
elmoas I said, on any Debian buildd, the 200  packages will be cached locally02:39
fabbioneelmo: space (s390), bw 02:39
elmos390 needs it's space fixed for other reasons - that's not an argument02:39
elmoit's all virtual disks anyway02:39
Kamion(like kde)02:39
danielselmo: should we merge x back into a single package, then?02:39
danielsi just fundamentally fail to see how arbitrarily connecting a bunch of disconnected libraries can be a good thing02:40
elmodaniels: nothing I said suggested that02:40
elmobut it's a nice strawman02:40
=== winkle [~winkle@lgh3814234.vittran.norrnod.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsxlibs-dev as a concept is fundamentally dead anyway02:40
fabbioneelmo: as soon as we reupload X and the packages needs to be refreshed.. you are starting from the beginning, but yeah.. we have resources02:41
danielsgiven that no libraries added after 4.2.x have been added to xlibs-dev, it is no longer 'the clientside X libraries'02:41
danielsgiven that two toolkits are in there, where the distinction was drawn in the first place is a mystery, anyway02:41
Kamionfabbione: it amortises02:41
danielsso right now it's just an arbitrary grouping of packages that is kept alive because of inertia02:42
Kamionfabbione: as soon as one package fetches some set of libraries it's free for all the others02:42
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i agree on that..02:42
fabbioneKamion: but right now you pull 200 libs each time you ask fro xlibs-dev (and yes they get cached)02:43
danielsthe other point is that the X packaging is still horrifically broken02:43
Kamion(I'm fixing most of my packages now; can't fix groff at the moment though)02:43
fabbioneKamion: perhaps with a proper b-d there will be less than 1002:43
danielsand the damage was only barely just started to be unravelled in 4.3.0, and mistakes were made along the way02:43
fabbioneKamion: clearly these are just fake numbers02:43
fabbioneKamion: but there is still a benefit, even if minimal02:43
Kamionsource: xfree86 only generates 26 -dev packages ;)02:44
fabbioneKamion: check x.org02:44
fabbionethere must be a bunch more02:44
Kamionfabbione: still not 20002:44
fabbione<fabbione> Kamion: clearly these are just fake numbers02:44
Kamiondaniels: X is certainly allowed to unravel its mistakes, and that's a good thing02:44
fabbione200 was to give the idea02:44
Kamiondaniels: the point is that the rest of the distribution has to be allowed to catch up gradually, not in a flag day02:45
danielsKamion: absolutely, I agree with you here02:45
Kamiondaniels: if you guys agree on that, then we seem to be in agreement, except perhaps about what "gradually" means. :)02:46
danielsKamion: (also, bear in mind that my ideal world has ~70 library source packages)02:46
danielsKamion: rather violent agreement, it seems02:46
fabbioneKamion: but none of us ever wrote "from one day to another"02:46
fabbioneat least.. if my short memory doesn't betrade me02:46
Kamionfabbione: removing xlibs-dev before all its b-ds are fixed counts as a flag day02:46
danielsKamion: agreed02:47
fabbioneKamion: neither i wrote to do it that way02:47
fabbionei just expressed the whish to kill xlibs-dev02:47
fabbionewish even02:47
fabbione fabbione would really like to see xlibs-dev vanishing02:48
fabbionethat was all i wrote02:48
fabbionein terms of future plans02:48
KamionI understood the stuff about etch to be "come hell or high water" :)02:48
fabbionei didn't say to do it now or how02:48
Kamionalright, sorry then :)02:48
fabbionewell clearly i would like to do it asap, but asap has a very large relative terms in debian02:49
danielsKamion: basically, I know how I would like X to be packaged, and that doesn't involve xlibs*02:49
fabbioneKamion: don't be sorry.. i love to discuss02:49
fabbioneKamion: and i like to hear different opinions on stuff02:49
fabbioneKamion: other than daniels' one that we know are crap :P02:49
Kamionstill, has the bonus that I have a bunch of my packages to fix, some of which haven't seen an upload in two years02:49
fabbioneit's a good opportunity to refresh the timestime on the inodes :)02:50
=== zul [~chuck@zul.developer.gentoo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== fabbione uploads another batch of sparc packages
elmoI did a madison patch once that showed you the last upload time - I should resurrect it02:52
elmoalmost everyone I showed the output to for their packages went "oh, yeah, I forgot about <foo>"02:53
fabbionelibcaca <- i wonder who invented this name02:53
fabbioneliteraly translated from italian is: libtakeashit02:53
Kamionelmo: cool02:53
smurfixelmo: sometimes that's actually a good thing ;-)02:53
smurfixfabbione: what does it do?02:54
fabbionesmurfix: no idea02:54
smurfixfabbione: hopefully something unrelated to its name ...02:54
danielsoh wow, I still maintain dbtcp02:54
elmo^-- like that :P02:54
fabbione libcaca is the Colour AsCii Art library.02:55
stratusfabbione, hah it doesn't sound good in portuguese too.02:55
danielselmo: hey, I don't have any bugs to my name in debian02:56
infinitydaniels : Only because you sneak around co-maintaining things, so the bugs accumulate on other addresses. :)02:57
infinity(adconrad@debian.org doesn't have any open bugs either!)02:58
danielsinfinity: i don't see *you* fixing apache2 :P02:58
infinitydaniels : Yeah, yeah.  I'll get another upload in before I go on vacation.02:58
infinityMaybe throw something in to shut up all the "I'm too stupid to set up SSL without handholding" whiners.02:59
infinityI dunno.02:59
daniels'morning thom02:59
elmoif apache's SSL handling wasn't so insanely fragile it might garner less whiners :-P02:59
fabbionehey thom02:59
fabbionethoom: still jetlagging?02:59
danielselmo: dude, you should give 2.0.16 a shot02:59
danielselmo: those were they days where they sent out a different 100kB 'this might work, hey actually it bombs out on compile' SSL patch03:00
elmo"WAH WAH, you omitted one section of the config file - I'm not going to tell you about it, I'm going to just break silently, hahaha, good luck.  p.s. don't try loglevel debug, it won't help, kthxbye"03:00
thomelmo: well, i think they reasonably assume that someone wanting ssl on should have a cert attached to that vhost03:00
elmothom: I'm not arguing it shouldn't break, I'm arguing it should break BETTER03:00
infinityMore spectacularly, even.03:00
infinityA lot of apache could do with being more verbose.03:01
infinityOr differently verbose.03:01
infinitySome of the error messages are a bit... Odd.03:01
fabbioneinfinity: we can still add a "poweroff" if apache fails to start03:01
thomsome of them are just genius03:01
thombut they've gotten better03:01
infinityI love watching my requests randomly disappear into the ether too.03:02
thomfabbione: and yes, my timezones are broken03:02
thominfinity: did you ever play with that "dav eats my files" bug?03:02
infinitythom : I looked atit a bit when it came in, but not since.03:02
infinitythom : I was going to look at it again before the next upload.03:03
infinitythom : The logic in there seems... Broken.03:03
jdubthom: btw, what do you think about checking the "lock screen after X minutes" setting before locking on lid down?03:03
infinitythom : If you follow it, it's definitely wrong.  I'm just undecided as to what the RIGHT behaviour is.03:03
thomjdub: i think it should lock instantly03:03
infinitythom : (Right now, if a move fails, it seems to want to cover its tracks by deleting... both copies..)03:03
thominfinity: yes, that is very broken indeed03:04
jdubthom: i'm thinking if you have that turned off, it shouldn't lock03:04
danielsah, the log stuff is shit03:04
seb128jdub: what should we do about #3043 ?03:04
thomjdub: bleah, maybe03:04
elmojdub: eww, please don't do that03:05
daniels'the directory you specified for one of your logs doesn't exist, so I'm going to bail now, and not even print a \n, because I'm such a hateful bastard'03:05
elmoI want my laptop locked on resume03:05
danielsinfinity: !03:05
elmoplease at least me allow to specify that easily03:05
jdubelmo: ideally, this would be power-management-user-policy stuff03:05
jdubbut for now, perhaps we should hook it to that preference03:05
infinityjdub : A certain other OS that shall remain nameless makes a clear separation between "locking the screen" (ie: screensaver settings) and "lock on resume).03:06
thomyeah, if that's turned off in xscreensaver settings, it makes sense03:06
jdubelmo: it would work that way by default even with this change03:06
=== RubenV [~lambda1@83-134-126-133.Leuven.GoPlus.FastDSL.tiscali.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubinfinity: that's the ideal, yes.03:06
=== eruin [~eruin@eruin.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomdaniels: yes, that's an RoUS special03:06
jdubseb128: oh03:06
jdubseb128: i think i have a viable bounty hunter/team for that03:06
danielsthom: WOO!03:07
seb128jdub: should I reassign it to you so ?03:07
jdubseb128: yeah, thanks03:07
seb128np, thank you :)03:07
=== infinity wanders off to bed after an evening of cleaning up kullervo.
thomg'night mate03:07
infinitythom : G'night.03:08
danielsinfinity: night dude03:09
elmotcl 8.4.6-1 works, tcl 8.4.7-1 breaks03:17
=== Fwiffo_ [~user@jep.dhcp.kampsax.dtu.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== fabbione sighs at ppc
fabbionestill 2 and 1/2 kernels to build :(03:22
elmoyou should do amd64 instead03:22
elmostill mutliple variants, but it'll build a bucket load faster03:23
fabbioneelmo: not for the udebs part03:23
Kamionelmo: powerpc has the three sets of udebs03:23
fabbioneamd64 creates only one set of udebs03:23
elmoah I see03:23
fabbioneat this speed i will have time to integrate sparc too :-)03:24
fabbioneelmo: i have the kernels btw03:24
fabbionei am doing another round of build to be 100% sure03:25
Matt|daniels, there's a guy in ubuntu-it who has a problem with his touchpad and xfree, have you got a few minutes for him?03:27
danielsMatt|: yeah, sure03:27
jdubwho's running hoary and i386 and wants to try some SEXY new gnome love?03:27
tsengjdub: pick me, pick me!03:27
smurfixjdub: ?03:27
Matt|jdub, are you appealing for regular users?03:28
jdubhell yeah03:28
jdubthis is maximum SASS03:28
stratusjdub, i! :)03:28
stratusbreak my hoary!03:28
jdubinstall that03:28
Matt|daniels, thanks a lot, I've asked him to pm ya03:28
jduband run gnome-file-share-properties03:28
Matt|jdub, i'm running 686 kernel it is cool?03:28
jdubthen look in Computer > Network :-)03:28
danielsMatt|: thanks03:28
Matt|daniels, thank YOU03:29
jdubMatt|: hrm?03:29
danielsjdub: how come it's not in the archive?03:29
tsengits going that way03:29
stratusjdub: wait, it needs libhowl0, installing...03:29
jdubdaniels: g-u-s?03:29
stratus*sigh*, apache2 and mdnsresponder?03:29
stratusit needs to be really cool03:29
jdubit is03:29
danielsjdub: yeah03:29
danielsjdub: you should upload it, dude03:29
jdubdaniels: you're fixing why it doesn't build right now, aren't you? :)03:30
zuljdub, what is it?03:30
Matt|jdub, too many dependencies for me03:30
stratusstill installing...03:30
jdubMatt|: it's not...03:30
danielsjdub: yeah :)03:30
Matt|jdub, apache2?03:30
jdubzul: user level zeroconf/webdav file sharing for gnome03:30
jdubMatt|: just update-rc.d -f apache2 remove after you've installed it03:31
stratushey jdub03:31
stratusis libhowl0 >= 0.9.8-1 around?03:31
jdubin hoary, yes03:31
jdubthis is a hoary package03:31
jdubfor testing and so on03:31
stratusupdating packages now...03:31
zuljdub, its installed03:31
smurfixjdub: Syntax error on line 39 of /usr/share/gnome-user-share/dav_user.conf: Invalid command 'MinSpareServers', perhaps mis-spelled [...] 03:31
jdubsmurfix: aha, which mpm do you have installed?03:32
smurfixjdub: sh03:32
tsengworks for me03:32
tsengexcept, we still dont have howl in gnome-vfs?03:32
smurfixjdub: should grey out the password when it's "never" too03:32
jdubsmurfix: yeah03:32
jdubtseng: yeah, we do03:33
smurfixjdub: the wrong one ;-)  -- apache2-mpm-worker03:33
tsengjdub: i dont see myself in network03:33
thomum, worker is the default? :-)03:33
jdubit should work with worker03:33
pittiKamion: I'm currently merging the new udev 0.046, we need it for several reasons03:33
jdubhrm, i have prefork03:34
pittiKamion: I merged all changes but some details of the udeb creation03:34
smurfixjdub: should, but apparently doesn't03:34
=== jdub checks
stratusI see the same error message about dav_user.conf03:34
pittiKamion: the new udev Debian package already has provisions for building the udeb, however, some files are missing that you ship with 0.04203:34
jdubsmurfix: yeah03:34
jdubokay dudes, install apache2-mpm-prefork03:34
pittiKamion: could you take a look at it and finish the merge?03:35
jdubi'll figure out how to get it working with the other ones03:35
danielslibapache2-mod-dav, innit?03:35
stratusjdub, ok03:35
jdubdaniels: a) it's not separate anymore, b) to run apache, you need an apache server :)03:35
smurfixjdub: I saw that error after running gnome-file-share-properties -- it should have appeared at install time too03:35
jdubsmurfix: nah, it shouldn't have03:36
stratussmurfix, the same here.03:36
danielsjdub: well, yeah, heh03:36
tsengjdub: works!03:36
jdubalternatively, you can comment the two *Spare* lines in dav_user.conf03:37
fabbionegordian:/var/lib/dpkg/info# for i in `ls *-dev.*`; do grep ldconfig $i; done03:37
fabbionegordian:/var/lib/dpkg/info# 03:37
=== daniels chortles.
fabbionedaniels: nobody calls ldconfig in -dev03:37
danielswhy not just grep ldconfig *-dev.* ?03:37
jdubtseng: got computer > network love?03:37
fabbionegrep ldconfig *-dev.*03:37
fabbionegordian:/var/lib/dpkg/info# 03:37
tsengjdub: indeed.03:37
fabbionedaniels: better now?03:37
jdubsexy, huh? :)03:38
tsengjdub: using perfork03:38
tsenghot as hell03:38
tsengand not buggly like eppitance03:38
danielsfabbione: i wasn't saying the results were wrong, just a wasteful method03:38
mvo_jdub: what is the future for gamin (the fam replacement)? will it stay or is that a dependencies that gnome would like to drop long-term?03:38
jdubhooray for reusing code from leading free software projects :)03:38
danielsanyway, I do not see how what we have can even possibly work03:38
jdubmvo_: it'll stay03:38
danielselmo: would really love your input on this, please03:38
mvo_so I can safly use it in the update notifier tray icon?03:38
jdubyes, that's a great idea03:39
jdubmvo_: gamin is binary compat with a subset of fam, so it should work with either03:39
stratusjdub, but huh what's up with that default password?03:39
mvo_jdub: great, thanks :)03:39
danielsAny package installing shared libraries in one of the default library directories of the dynamic linker (which are currently /usr/lib and /lib) or a directory that is listed in /etc/ld.so.conf[42]  must use ldconfig to update the shared library system.03:40
jdubstratus: there is no default password, is there?03:40
tsengya there is.03:41
Kamionpitti: sure, Md and I were talking about that03:41
stratusjdub, i see four asterisk when running 'gnome-file-share-properties' at password field03:41
stratussmurfix, don't you?03:41
pittiKamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/udev/03:41
smurfixstratus: same here03:41
stratusjdub, :)03:42
pittiKamion: it contains the current status of the merge and the Ubuntu diffs that I did not yet merge (udeb-relevant)03:42
jdubstratus: you'll always see four asterisks03:42
jdubstratus: however long your password is03:42
elmodaniels: say what?03:42
jdubstratus: determine the length of the password as stored in ~/.gnome2/user-share/passwd03:42
stratusjdub, but i didn't write nothing i just started g-f-s-p03:42
danielselmo: ok, so here's the scenario03:42
danielslibx11-6 installed, along with libX11.so.6 and libX11.so.6.203:42
danielscalls ldconfig in postinst03:42
jdubstratus: even if the passwd is zero length, you will see four asterisks03:42
daniels-> libX11.so.6 registered with ld03:43
danielslibx11-dev installed, with libX11.so03:43
danielsldconfig not called in postinst03:43
stratusjdub, oh my failure.03:43
danielswould ldconfig need to be called there, to register libX11.so?  or is there something I'm missing?03:43
elmodaniels: you're breaking my mind.  you mean ld.so right?03:44
elmold(1) is very different03:44
danielselmo: never mind me03:44
danielselmo: i blame keybuk03:44
Kamionpitti: the first two hunks can be dropped03:46
pittiKamion: indeed, these work fine03:47
pittiKamion: however, the Debian udeb does not ship many files the Ubuntu one does03:47
Kamionpitti: yeah, I know, I'm looking at those03:48
fabbioneelmo: dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-' in `../linux-image-'.03:48
fabbionethat's all for you :P03:48
pittiKamion: I don't think we need all of the remaining files, that's why I did not just take the Ubuntu version03:48
=== mvo [~Michael@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomfabbione: my sparc wouldn't boot 2.6 last i tried :/03:49
fabbionethom: we will see later 2.4 support03:50
fabbionethom: right now i had to drop sparc32 too03:50
fabbionebecause i really don't have one to test on03:50
fabbioneand kernel needs love on sparc3203:50
fabbionesparc64 gets enough03:50
fabbionethom: don't you have an u30?03:51
Kamionpitti: indeed03:51
Kamionpitti: could you add links.conf to /etc/udev? I'm not absolutely sure about it but I'm not comfortable with leaving it out yet03:52
fabbionethom: did you try debian kernels or custom kernels?03:52
jdubtseng: at the bottom of your dav_user.conf, put:03:53
pittiKamion: sure03:53
jdub<IfModule prefork.c>03:53
jdubMinSpareServers 103:53
jdubMaxSpareServers 103:53
jdubMaxClients 303:53
=== jdub is doing that in the next release
Kamionpitti: can you drop that udev.startup thing from debian/rules too? I'll talk to Md about that; rootskel must be able to control d-i's startup, and /lib/debian-installer-startup.d is not a published interface for random packages to use03:54
jdubnow it should build too03:54
Kamionpitti: (at least, not yet)03:54
jdub/bin/dd if /proc/kmsg of /var/run/klogd/kmsg <- fear ;)03:55
thomfabbione: debian03:56
Kamionpitti: other than that I *think* it's ok03:56
pittijdub: I know, it's a hack, but it works :-)03:56
Kamionpitti: actually, hmm03:56
Kamionpitti: yes, never mind me, should be fine, might have to change rootskel slightly03:57
pittiKamion: so the important things are only links.conf and the dropping of udev.startup?04:00
Kamionpitti: in fact, I misread the diff, links.conf is still there04:02
jdublamont: please kick gus :)04:02
smurfixjdub: Hmmm, so what do I (or anyone else for that matter) need to get Nautilus to show the public folders? I'll freely admit that I've not played with zeroconf stuff before.04:02
Kamionpitti: so just drop /lib/debian-installer-startup.d/S02udev, please, rest should be fine04:02
pittiKamion: okay thanks04:02
jdubsmurfix: nautilus uses gnome-vfs's howl stuff04:03
pittiKamion: pure curiosity, has d-i a something similar like /etc/init.d/?04:03
jdubsmurfix: so it should just appear in Computer > Network04:03
pittiKamion: this symlink looks like sysvinit-style04:03
jdubsmurfix: you've run gnome-file-share-properties, and verified that gnome-user-share (and apache) are running?04:03
Kamionpitti: kinda sorta04:03
elmoI wish there was a way to do opportunistic gdb-ing or strace-ing, i.e. say "next time something called 'expect' starts, attach to it"04:03
jdubelmo: obviously you want dtrace.04:04
Kamionpitti: in fact, Md's startup script will break d-i because he didn't know how it worked ... whoopsie04:04
pittiKamion: so this _is_ relevant for Debian, too04:04
pittiKamion: well, the Debian version currently disables it anyway04:04
jdubsmurfix: not working?04:04
Kamionpitti: ... actually maybe not, he installs it executable so it'll get executed not sourced04:04
smurfixjdub: not so fast :-/04:05
Kamionpitti: I'm still uncomfortable with /lib/debian-installer-startup.d not being entirely controlled by rootskel04:05
Kamionpitti: doesn't matter for Debian yet because Debian won't be using udev for a little while yet04:05
smurfixI'm typing with one hand04:05
pittiKamion: if I understood that correctly, witht the current version udev would be started twice?04:05
pittiKamion: once by rootskel, another time by this S02udev?04:06
smurfixjdub: it's temporary ...04:06
eruinwhat's been happening to gdesklets recently? it's more broken than what I'd be after a 90kph car-to-brick-wall-crash04:07
Kamionpitti: no ... rootskel already ships S02udev, so they'd clash and have to be resolved somehow anyway04:08
pittiKamion: okay, thanks for your help!04:09
smurfixjdub: Not seeing it on the desktop (which is the one publishing), or from the MacOS-X laptop. My ubuntu laptop's busy updating to Hoary at the moment.04:09
Kamionpitti: as it happens udev's would win because the initrd udebs get unpacked in alphabetical order04:09
jdubsmurfix: install howl-utils to do some testing for me :)04:09
pittiKamion: "r"ootskel > "u"dev ???04:10
pittinot in my alphabet...04:10
pittiKamion: anyway, I removed it04:10
smurfixjdub: done04:10
jdubsmurfix: type this:04:11
jdubmDNSBrowse _webdav._tcp04:11
Kamionpitti: udev's would win; it gets unpacked second and therefore overwrites04:12
smurfixjdub: sitting there, not doing much04:13
pittiKamion: ah, I see. I thought it would be similar to dpkg where it just refuses to overwrite something04:13
jdubsmurfix: hrm04:13
smurfix(mDNSBrowse, not me)04:13
jdubsmurfix: and mdnsresponder is running?04:13
Kamionpitti: we use 'dpkg -x'04:14
smurfixjdub: 20205 ?        Ssl    0:00 /usr/sbin/mDNSResponder -f /etc/mdnsresponder/mDNSResponder.conf04:14
smurfixstrace shows that it did respond to the browser's first packet04:14
Kamionpitti: actually, no, we don't, we use dpkg --unpack, but we also use --force-overwrite04:15
pittiKamion: why overwrite? Did this already occur on several other udebs?04:15
Kamionpitti: yes04:17
Kamionpitti: busybox-cvs-udeb and module-init-tools-udeb for a start04:17
pittiugh, sounds like gambling04:17
Kamionsure, but there are some battles not worth fighting04:18
pittiI removed the script and the directory, I upload now. Let it break... :-)04:18
Kamionok, I'll upload rootskel to match04:18
pittithanks to you too04:18
pittiKamion: this version fixes several important errors, that's why I'm eager to get it :-)04:19
smurfixjdub: I just restarted the mdnsresponder with -d; mdnsbrowse now reports ...04:22
smurfixjdub: browse reply: Add Service 0x2 smurf's public files _webdav._tcp. local.04:23
KamionKeybuk: are targets like 'install-libLTLIBRARIES' considered internal? i.e. can I use them from debian/rules?04:23
smurfixjdub: resolve reply: 0x2 smurf's public files _webdav._tcp. local. 5384804:23
smurfixjdub: ... but still doesn't return.04:23
smurfixah, restarting Nautilus worked.04:24
smurfixjdub: that shouldn't be necessary.04:24
thomjdub: worth thinking about adding a "Branding" keyword to bugzilla?04:25
smurfixjdub: now I'd please like to rename that shared folder.  ;-)04:26
jdub"no." :)04:26
smurfixjdub: "Duh, I'll keep using MacOS then, it works there."  :-)04:27
thomjdub: um, to which :P04:27
jdubthom: not you - on phone04:28
smurfixjdub: Interestingly the webdav share can be seen but not mounted from OSX. Not sure yet why.04:32
jdubknownish bug :)04:32
smurfixjdub: I take that to mean that you don't yet know why ..?04:34
KeybukKamion: very internal04:35
=== doko [doko@dsl-084-057-106-142.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionKeybuk: guess I just have to install and then remove everything but the library, then ...04:36
=== RubenV [~lambda1@83-134-126-191.Leuven.GoPlus.FastDSL.tiscali.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
RubenVpatched laptop-mode for LSB04:39
RubenVpatch is in bugzilla04:39
RubenVmy boot is now almost clean :)04:40
thomcan you attach the patch to #158004:40
thomsince that's the canonical bug04:40
RubenVah, great :)04:41
RubenVdidn't knew that one04:41
RubenVthere's also an alsa one from me somewhere04:41
RubenVi'll put it in 1580 too04:41
jdubok, back04:50
jdubthom: branding would be handy for me, yeah04:51
jdubthom: or you can just reassign viciously :)04:51
jdubsmurfix: no, not known why04:52
=== ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-24-6-169-124.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
smurfixjdub: Apparently the stupid thing produces neither network traffic nor log file entries when it does that. :-(05:03
stratushumm news about gnome-user-share?05:11
smurfixstratus: it worked here after I restarted nautilus.05:12
stratussmurfix, it worked here before my lunch but i was asking about others mpm.05:12
jdubstratus: the updated packge should be in hoary by now05:13
stratusjdub, thanks i was lunching sorry for the noise.05:13
smurfixstratus: then you should ask more specific questions. ;-)05:15
jdubsmurfix: which 'stupid thing'?05:16
smurfixjdub: The MacOS laptop. "It doesn't work" error messages are sub-standard.05:22
smurfixIt seems that Apple does its own zeroconf file sharing with AFP, not WebDAV. I don't feel any particular urge sto start hacking netatalk.05:28
smurfixzul: The day has only so many weeks. :-/05:28
zulheh...i wouldnt either :)05:29
smurfixIs there a way to mount a WebDAV file system?05:34
jdubwith hacky stuff like FUSE05:34
=== mvo__ [~Michael@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
smurfixWell, that does seem to be on its way into the official kernel.05:35
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
smurfixIt's just differently hacky than something that exists only in gnome.' 05:37
danielsnot really05:38
danielsgnome has its own vfs stuff05:38
danielsfuse is kinda handwavey there-is-no-standard-file-interface-because-I-just-replaced-it05:38
danielsthese are entirely separate ideas05:38
smurfixdaniels: I know they're separate ideas, that's kind of my point.05:40
smurfixFile system contents should be visible to all programs, not just those which happen to have a gnome GUI.05:44
danielstry this:05:44
jdubs/have a gnome GUI/use gnome-vfs/05:44
danielswrite a WebDAV server which sends 'Connection: keep-alive' unconditionally (because you wrote a buggy test)05:44
danielssorry, Connection: close, unconditionally05:44
danielsthen have it assume it's doing keep-alive, and keep the connection open forever05:45
danielsmount any volume from this WebDAV server on a Mac OS X machine05:45
danielsdouble-click on the volume, and watch Finder lock up solid05:45
danielsdrag it over to the Dock to eject it, and watch the Dock lock up solid05:45
danielswatch anything that attempts to do file IO lock up solid05:45
danielsswear and reset your machine05:46
=== migus [~migus@netu.naquadah.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsi assure you, there are some *serious* issues with moving stuff like WebDAV down into the kernel05:46
smurfixdaniels: FUSE isn't exactly doing WebDAV in the kernel.05:47
danielsunderstood, but the problem space isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be05:47
danielsi know, because I spent three or so days in a mount/reset cycle on the OS X machine05:47
daniels(afaik, the problem still isn't fixed)05:48
smurfixnever said it was, it's just a *different* problem space, one I personally prefer.  ;-)05:48
smurfixAnyway, Apple certainly could do a lot better in that area. They still can't keep NFS mounts over wireless networks stable. If the IP address doesn't change, that's not supposed to be difficult to do.05:53
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elmoseb128: ping WRT libzvt?06:20
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seb128elmo: oh yes, I've forgotten this one. We don't need it in main06:26
elmoseb128: thanks06:27
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chrisaI was so confused when the postwoman handed me a box of packages06:59
chrisaTurns out they're all Ubuntu cds06:59
danielsordering lots of CDs tends to have that effect, yeah07:00
smurfixchrisa: so how many did you order?07:01
chrisasmurfix: 200 for the oss group / lug07:02
chrisaand to also throw in random places on campus07:02
=== smurfix doesn't quite know whether 'order' is the right word when they're free
Matt|where are the cd's shipping from?07:02
chrisaNo return address on the envelopes, no idea07:03
KamionI use "request"07:03
smurfixKamion: thanks, that's better07:03
fabbioneKamion: good that we did the ppc and that i integrated sparc :-)07:04
fabbioneKamion: i spotted 2 errors in one line :-)07:04
chrisaNeat, these have a live cd and install cd, as well as directions on them07:04
Kamionfabbione: heh07:06
fabbioneKamion: -18 will have sparc + udebs for i386/ppc/amd64/sparc07:06
fabbioneKamion: rocking :-)07:06
fabbionelamont: do you have anything from ia64? (kernel wise)07:06
lamontfabbione: not personally, no.07:07
fabbionelamont: what about t-bone?07:08
fabbione        install -D -m 644 debian/d-i-powerpc/boot/vmlinux- debian/kernel-image-
fabbione        install -D -m 644 debian/d-i-powerpc/boot/vmlinux- debian/kernel-image-
fabbione        install -D -m 644 debian/d-i-powerpc/boot/vmlinux- debian/kernel-image-
fabbioneKamion: i guess we are rocking :-)07:09
lamontfabbione: t-bone would be the one to ask07:09
lamontand/or dannf, but that's probably a monday thing07:09
fabbionelamont: ok.. i guess ia64 can wait :-)07:09
fabbioneKamion: if you want to login on davis and take a look in my home...07:10
fabbioneKamion: you are more used than me watching ppc udebs (at least in terms of numbers/names)07:11
=== fabbione goes to get some dinner
Kamionfabbione: don't think I have an account07:13
fabbioneKamion: afaik everybody does07:13
fabbioneon porting machines07:13
fabbioneand daves is one of them07:13
fabbioneanyway.. food07:13
Kamionmy ssh key doesn't seem to work, and the password I think I remember doesn't work either07:14
Kamionelmo: ?07:14
danielser, IIRC it's a specific thing07:14
danielsi didn't have access to the port boxes until I asked07:14
danielsKamion: if you want me to pull specific things out, let me know07:15
elmoyes, port stuff is on request07:15
danielsor, even better, just ask elmo07:15
elmoKamion: do you need an account or just the files?07:16
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zopiwhere I can find kernel-headers for unbuntu ?07:18
tsengapt-cache search kernel-headers07:19
zopithere is linux-kernel-headers but nothing in /usr/src07:19
zopialready done07:19
zopithere is none matching the kernel07:19
zopi2.6.8.1-3 07:19
zopieven using universe repository07:19
Matt|zopi, are you talking about linux-headers?07:19
thom#ubuntu for support questions, please. (you want linux-headers)07:20
lamont /bin/sh: ps: command not found07:20
Matt|zopi, #ubuntu07:20
zopisorry so07:20
zopiDoes it plan to add rescue mode on CD for the next release ? 07:21
lamontzopi: #ubuntu is the right place for that.  this is the right place to discuss your patch that implements it07:22
zopiok :)07:22
Kamionelmo: just the files is fine07:22
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=== lamont gags on isdnutils build log
Kamionzopi: rescue mode> maybe; I'd like it to exist but there is absolutely no code for that available for our installer as far as I know, so it'd be an interesting development project for somebody07:23
zopijust to boot07:24
zopijust like this rescue root=/dev/hd**07:24
Kamionyes, I know what you're referring to07:24
zopiok :)07:24
zopiKamion : and the code from Debian Woody ?07:25
elmoKamion: rookery:~james/davis07:25
Kamionthe trick is managing to make that work without requiring a big monolithic kernel07:25
lamontKamion: I thought that's what alt-f2 was for... :-)07:25
Kamionzopi: code from woody is inapplicable because we totally rewrote the installer for sarge (and hence warty)07:25
Kamionelmo: thanks07:25
zopiKamion : ah ok07:25
=== lamont wonders if maybe debian-policy should move into main...
Kamionzul: our own packaging policies are likely to be pretty similar07:26
Kamionfabbione: I haven't looked through all the udebs, but those look OK to me07:27
zuli c..so why not rename it to ubuntu-policy?07:27
lamontKamion: in fact, if ubuntu-policy does differ from debian-policy, it'd be nice if it was just a list of changes from debian policy, since it shouldn't vary _that_ much07:27
Kamionfabbione: with the exception of Section: devel => debian-installer, but I think you were using the previous version of kernel-wedge?07:27
Kamionzul: varies; we haven't renamed debian-installer for instance (and I'd be against doing so - the upstream name is "debian-installer", renaming it arrogates too much credit to ourselves)07:28
seb128daniels: here ?07:29
Kamionzul: ubuntu-policy might be a different case, I suppose; it might depend on how much we changed or whether we just took d-p verbatim07:29
zulKamion, truebut at what point would that be07:30
Kamionnot sure07:30
zulyou might need 2 debs...not sure either07:31
lamontbut speaking of policy... what's the official way to add a service to /etc/services?07:31
lamontbecause this sure isn't it (in Makefile...):07:32
lamont                @(grep isdnlog $(SERVICEFILE) >/dev/null) || \07:32
lamont                (echo "";echo "";echo "Add a line to the file $(SERVICEFILE)" ;echo "";echo ""; \07:32
lamont                echo "isdnlog $(SERV_PORT)/tcp        isdnlog" >> $(SERVICEFILE))07:32
danielsseb128: sup07:32
Kamionlamont: you get the netbase maintainer to add it07:33
Kamionlamont: that code's so wrong it's not true07:33
Kamionlamont: isdnlog's already in netbase's copy of /etc/services though07:33
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Kamionhttp://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/d/debian-installer/20041118ubuntu4/debian-installer_20041118ubuntu4_20041126-1806-i386-failed - crap07:35
seb128daniels: do you if this is supposed to work ? "echo "Xcursor.size: 20" | xrdb -merge -"07:35
danielsseb128: should do, but I don't know if you have to do specific known sizes like 32/6407:36
danielsseb128: also, you might need to do it before you start everything -- dunno that you can change it on the fly, but worth a shot07:36
seb128daniels: ok, because GNOME do this (with known size) to change between small/medium/big cursors and that doesn't work here07:36
lamontKamion: doesn't seem to be in the hoary chroot's services, thouhg07:36
lamontKamion: that'd be because /etc/services isn't there07:37
Kamionlamont: ah, no netbase07:37
lamontyeah, adding that too.07:37
KamionI guess b-ding on netbase would be wrong? :)07:37
lamontdon't see why not.07:38
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Kamionlamont: netbase's postinst runs /etc/init.d/networking though ...?07:40
lamontah, yes. that might be bad...07:41
lamontinstall phase finished...07:41
lamontKamion: so how do I get those perl bitches about locale to go away without installing locales in the chroot, and leaving the locale in place outside the chroot???07:42
lamontis it as simple as stuffing LANG=C somewhere?07:43
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elmolamont: empty /etc/environment07:45
seb128daniels: ok, changing the cursor theme works but the size (12/24/36) doesn't07:46
Kamionor LANG=C before sbuild07:46
elmothe machines don't have locales installed - /etc/environment should be updated to match07:46
Kamionkeep forgetting you mean /etc/environment outside the chroots07:47
lamontelmo: doesn't work for me.07:47
Kamionlamont: you'd have to restart the buildd, it'll already have LANG=whatever surely?07:47
lamontor you mean outside the chroot?07:47
elmolamont: on which machine?07:47
lamontmy machine07:47
elmoyes, in base07:47
elmoand restart the buildd07:48
lamontdoesn't that break me using a locale?07:48
Kamionlamont: on your own machine, just LC_ALL=C before building07:48
elmooh, well, if it's not your machines, go with what kamion said07:48
Kamion(LC_ALL in case you've set LC_FOO by hand)07:48
lamontelmo: any objection to sbuid just forcing LANG=C into the environment?07:49
lamontLANG= seemed to work...07:49
Kamionif you're going to use something as an override it should be LC_ALL=C07:49
elmolamont: no, I suppose not07:50
lamontI'm more inclined to teach buildd to inject something into the environment from buildd.conf07:50
KamionI. HATE. MKLIBS.07:51
lamontKamion: LC_ALL doesn't change LANG... is that gonna bite me?07:51
Kamiontype 'LC_ALL=C locale'07:52
Kamionoh, true, that shows LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 for me; but nothing checks that07:52
lamontah, ok07:53
=== lamont bemoans his lack of perl literacy...
lamontgiven %ENV and %ENVOVERRIDES, how do I get all of %ENVOVERRIDES into %ENV?07:53
Kamionlamont: perl (and pretty much everything else that cares about this kind of stuff) does setlocale(LC_ALL, "")07:53
lamontperl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").07:54
Kamionlamont: $ENVOVERRIDES{$_} = $ENV{$_} for keys %ENV;07:54
lamontactually, looks like 'C'07:54
Kamion#ifdef LC_ALL07:54
Kamion    if (! setlocale(LC_ALL, ""))07:54
Kamion        setlocale_failure = TRUE;07:54
Kamion#endif /* LC_ALL */07:54
lamontKamion: actually the other way around, yes?07:54
Kamionlamont: oh, yeah, right07:54
Kamion$ENV{$_} = $ENVOVERRIDES{$_} for keys %ENV;07:57
Kamionbah, keys %ENVOVERRIDES07:57
lamontyeah - that falls so trippingly off the fingers, doesn't it...07:59
fabbioneseb128: you around?08:01
lamontKamion: it doesn't like me... dammit08:06
lamontenv changes aren't making it into child processes08:06
Kamion%ENV is definitely exported (in shell terminology) by perl08:07
lamontyeah, well...08:07
KamionI suspect a child process is resetting it08:07
lamontto what it was _outside_ the chroot?08:07
Kamioncheck exactly what %ENV looks like, too08:07
Kamionperl -d rocks08:07
Kamionis there an /etc/environment inside the chroot?08:08
lamontbut present08:08
Kamionhi mdz08:09
fabbionehey mdz08:09
zulhey mdz08:09
lamontKamion: that assuems that one knows what to do wiht perl -d.....08:10
lamontmorning mdz08:10
Kamionlamont: type 'n' or 's' gdb-style at it until one gets to the line one's interested in, then 'x %ENV'08:11
=== mdz watches the number of user processes running as root fall under pitti's axe
=== sm is now known as sm-away
mdzanyone seen amu lately?08:13
Kamionyeah, he was around on #canonical just an hour or two ago08:13
zulis anyone working on selinux support?08:15
Kamionnot among Canonical folks, dunno about anyone else08:16
zuli wouldnt mind taking a shot at it though08:16
fabbionemdz: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/changelog08:18
fabbionemdz: doing the last test now08:18
fabbionemdz: but that's basically what i would like to go for -1808:19
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=== lamont gets dragged off to family stuff
mdzzul: consensus is that rather than disrupt mainline development, it should be done in a derivative branch, and then merged in when it's reasonably stable08:28
Kamionlamont: please make debian-installer dep-wait on pciutils-udeb (>= 2.1.11-15ubuntu3)08:29
Kamionlamont: that is, assuming you can dep-wait on udebs (can you?); if not, the corresponding source08:29
lamontwhich source?08:29
zulmdz: sure no problem..once i have something i can put patches into the bugzilla cant i?08:29
lamontKamion: d-i is PaS'ed on ia64?  or is the ia64 box just slow I wonder... Anyway, the 3 architectures you care about are d-w./08:30
zulmdz: nm...im not thinking08:31
mdzzul: certainly.  also, we'll be doing a lot of work to make it easier to work on derivatives, which we'll talk about in Spain08:31
Kamionlamont: ta08:31
Kamionlamont: won't work yet on ia64 anyway ...08:31
Kamionlamont: (lack of kernels)08:31
zulmdz: heh...i wish i could go to spain :)08:31
=== lamont really really really runs
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=== fabbione scratches his head
fabbionemdz: do you know why it has been moved to universe?08:47
fabbioneor anybody?08:47
mdzfabbione: moved? was it in main previously?08:47
mdzthe two things which control that are seeds and dependencies08:47
mdzif it's not in a seed, and isn't depended on by anything in main, it'll go into universe08:48
fabbionethey are xclients.. so nothing depends on it08:48
fabbione(together with fdclock and transset08:48
fabbionewe might want to add them to a seed than08:48
fabbionebut i will give daniels a remider 08:48
Kamionmdz: which reminds me; did you see my question about pciutils-udeb and usbutils-udeb?08:50
elmofabbione: daniels and jdub discussed it yesterday08:51
Kamion2004-11-25 11:53:03 GMT Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@canonical.com>       patch-3108:51
Kamion    Summary:08:51
Kamion      fdclock/xcompmgr/transset -> universe, per jdub08:51
Kamionmdz: I've created all the udebs now, just need to seed them and add the necessary support to hw-detect08:52
mdzKamion: no, I don't think I did08:53
mdzmy cablemodem shat itself for about 12 hours yesterday while i was out, so I didn't have scrollback08:53
Kamion20:48 < Kamion> mdz: oh, do you mind if I add pciutils-udeb, usbutils-udeb, and libusb-0.1-udeb? I need pci.ids and usb.ids now that discover1-data is no longer around to provide the names of network08:53
Kamion                interfaces for netcfg's UI08:53
Kamion20:48 < Kamion> mdz: which I had totally not thought about in advance08:53
Kamion20:49 < Kamion> mdz: and getting lspci and lsusb will probably be a bonus for debugging purposes, too08:53
mdzsounds fine08:54
mdzin general, it's fine with me if you add things to the installer seed at your own discretion08:54
Kamionok, thanks08:55
mdzit doesn't have the same associated issues as adding things to base, desktop or ship which require that those be discussed first08:55
Kamionhaven't quite decided yet whether I want to include usbutils-udeb in any of the initrds08:55
KamionI suspect not; it's a fair size and we degrade relatively gracefully08:56
seb128fabbione: pong08:56
Kamionooh, I have a cunning plan: I can use Enhances for a technical purpose!08:56
=== mdz gasps!
Kamionanna is one of the very few tools anywhere in Debian that actually pays attention to and uses Enhances08:57
fabbioneseb128: control-center is a FTBFS due to type-handling :(08:57
seb128fabbione: what's wrong with type-handling ? it works on my box08:57
fabbioneelmo, Kamion: DOH!08:58
fabbioneseb128: it's from universe08:58
seb128depends from a main should go automatically in main, right ?08:58
fabbioneelmo, Kamion: do daniels and jdub realize that we did all this X.org sprint to get the new extensions in, like composite, ad we are taking away the only ONE available manager?08:59
fabbioneseb128: yes, but we don't want type-handling in main :-)08:59
Kamionfabbione: no idea08:59
=== fabbione nods
seb128fabbione: arg, any reason for that ?08:59
seb128what's the problem with it ?08:59
elmoseb128: not for type-handling - we've been trying to avoid bring that in, and have already removed it from several packages' build-depends08:59
fabbioneseb128: i remember that we were told to remove it from everywhere09:00
Kamionseb128: ECRACK basically09:00
seb128it has been added in some GNOME package because some BSD guys submitted patches IIRC09:00
fabbioneyeah! another 2 and a half kernels to go09:01
seb128should I slay it on the debian side too ? :)09:01
Kamionseb128: I'll take a guess that that was the author of type-handling09:01
fabbioneguys.. my apologizes if i was bitching on X compilation time09:01
fabbionei really really feel sorry for that09:01
fabbionethe kernel is MUCH worst09:01
fabbionespecially when you compile it in 200 flavours09:02
fabbioneincluding the choccolate cake one with coffe.ko09:02
seb128Kamion: yep, just checked (ie: #272722)09:02
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Kamionnight all09:13
fabbionecya Kamion 09:14
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mdzseb128: type-handling is fairly crackful10:08
jdubmdz: tried gnome-user-share?10:09
jdubmdz: it will most likely be in gnome 2.9, and depends on apache2 and mdnsresponder. :-)10:09
mdz"easy user-level file sharing" is defiintely a gap that needs filling10:09
mdzit is not, however, something that warrants open ports by default :-)10:10
seb128mdz: ok, I've not played with it so I didn't know :)10:10
Mithrandirmdz: sounds crackful.10:10
jdubby default, it's not on10:10
mdzjdub: no problem, then?10:10
jdubbut there's a black cloud hanging over mdnsresponder10:10
jdubwhich will be very un-zeroconf if it doesn't listen by default10:10
mdzmdnsresponder just needs some smarts so that it is only enabled if the user has asked for it10:10
mdzthis is something where I think we are justified in being bull-headed10:11
mdzI need to read up on how it works so that I can understand the security model10:11
mdzbut I'm ostensibly off today and will be heading out soon10:12
mdzif you have some pointers to resources on that subject, please send them to me10:12
jdubit's the kind of thing that could be run by the library when required, but unfortunately, it listens on :5353 udp10:12
jduband there must only be one daemon because of that10:12
seb128jdub: GNOME used to have a preview of the mouse cursors, right ? 10:12
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jdubseb128: not a proper one, no10:13
jdubseb128: it had a "small" and "large" picture, but it wasn't of the actual cursor10:13
seb128jdub: I swear I can remember a screen with cursor pictures10:13
seb128oh, perhaps that's it so10:13
jdubyeah, it was in the old mouse properties dialogue10:13
jdubwe haven't had anything that handles cursor themes though10:14
seb128how old is the dialog ? I don't find the change in the ChangeLog10:14
jdubhrm, that probably disappeared in 2.410:14
seb128I'm doing some bug triage in the control-center's bugzilla, not always easy to understand the bug without the old capplet to compare :)10:16
jduboh yeah, it's turkey day10:17
fabbionejdub: want to take a look at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/changelog before i upload?10:21
jdubfabbione: cool10:23
jdubexciting :)10:23
Mithrandirjdub: have you done any fun stuff on libuser?10:23
jdubMithrandir: haven't had time :|10:23
=== fabbione uploads
jdubMithrandir: perhaps we should beg lifeless to import it asap :)10:24
jdubfabbione: so i guess i should bring on the U5 :-)10:25
Mithrandirjdub: I guess so, so we havething to work off.. I hope I10:25
Mithrandir'm able to do something next week, but exam on Monday, so..10:25
fabbionejdub: if it can boot 2.610:26
fabbionethom claims his u10 can't10:26
=== jdub wonders which OS this machine runs
jdubsolaris 910:36
sjoerdan U10 is just an U5 in another box right ?10:37
jdubi think so10:37
fabbioneget ready for -1910:38
fabbionethere was an error in debian/control10:38
jdubU5 is surprisingly noisy10:39
sjoerdthe front fan is noisy 10:39
sjoerdmy U5 runs 2.6.9 just fine so..10:39
jdubfabbione: so you reckon a sarge install and piecemeal upgrades to your packages is the best bet?10:40
fabbionethere is a much better way10:40
fabbioneinstall sarge in the future swap10:41
jduband debootstrap into the / ?10:41
fabbioneinstall debootstrap from ubuntu and patch it with debootstrap.diff from the website10:41
fabbioneand than debootstrap it10:41
fabbioneyou need to find a way to make the _all.deb available to your machine10:41
fabbionemy archive is only _sparc.deb10:41
fabbioneok.. _19 is going up10:43
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=== lamont decides that ia64 is committed enough to just file bugs about it... :-)
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lamontalbeit as normal, not serious10:48
chrisahrm, I like the idea of putting windows versions of apps on the ubuntu live cd10:49
fabbioneyeah.. but you can't symlink10:50
lamontjdub around?10:50
lamontseb128: you around?10:54
fabbionelamont: mind to babysit the kernel build?10:59
seb128lamont: yes11:02
lamontseb128: libglademm2.0 is yours, yes?11:12
lamontfabbione: bouncing around, but I can check on it, yets.11:12
fabbionelamont: it would be enough for me to know if it started the real build11:13
lamontany particular architecture?11:14
fabbioneall of them? :)11:15
lamonti386:  CC [M]   fs/reiserfs/tail_conversion.o11:15
lamont  CC [M]   fs/reiserfs/journal.o11:15
lamont  CC [M]   fs/reiserfs/resize.o11:15
lamontditto amd64 and ppc.11:16
lamontia64 I just marked failed.11:16
seb128lamont: not really but I can work on it11:16
seb128lamont: I don't maintain the *mm11:16
fabbionelamont: well.. ia64 isn't supported yet11:16
lamontfabbione: true 'nuf11:17
lamontseb128: ah, ok11:17
lamontfwiw - i didn't assign you the bug.  if it's assigned, bz thinks you own it...11:18
seb128lamont: what's needed ? I can work on libglademm2.011:18
lamontamd64? ftbfs11:18
lamontand bz didn't give it to you.  istr the "please use 2.4" was assigned to you though...11:18
seb128"please use 2.4" ?11:19
seb128BTW I'm not official maintainer for gnome-mm stuff but all the "*gnome*" stuff seems to get assigned to me :)11:21
lamontseb128: your lucky then. :-)11:21
seb128sort of :p11:21
lamont3621 is the one assigned to you "Please update to ver 2.4"11:21
lamontin the lamont-needs-to-file-a-bug camp: binutils, linux86, svgalib, zsh11:23
lamontI'm fixing zsh tonight if noone beats me to it, elmo knows about binutils11:23
lamontspecifically "[Something went b0rken with tcl/expect in hoary in i386] "11:23
lamontor some such, iirc11:23
seb128hum, yes, 3621 has been assigned by Matt, not bz :)11:23
lamontknew that when I saw that 4144 hadn't been autoassigned11:24
=== lamont files the svgalib bug
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lamont$conf::should_build_msgs ||= 1;11:36
lamontif $conf::should_build_msgs is 0 before that, what does that statement do?  (trying to figure out how it becomes 1...)11:36
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=== lamont hates perl
=== lamont honey-do's
Mithrandirlamont: howso?11:46
BradBlamont: It does what it looks like it does.11:53
BradBlamont: e.g. what does x += 1 do in Python? :)11:53

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