[12:00] <elmo> mdz: done
[12:00] <tseng> #3811 imported from BTS and #4219 are dupes
[12:01] <tseng> ah, i can do that :)
[12:59] <sivang> night all
[01:01] <jdub> mdz: pong
[01:12] <lamont> moo
[01:13] <lamont> seb128: here?
[01:13] <seb128> yes
[01:14] <lamont> figure out epihpany-browser?
[01:14] <seb128> no
[01:14] <lamont> gnome-media ftbfs
[01:14] <seb128> no log on people, only for ia64 in fact
[01:14] <mdz> fabbione: here?
[01:14] <lamont> gnome-media says nautilus is uninstallable
[01:15] <lamont> gnome/epiphany-browser_1.5.2-0ubuntu2: Dep-Wait by buildd+mcmurdo [optional:out-of-date] 
[01:15] <lamont>   Dependencies: libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.5.6)
[01:16] <lamont> libs/gtk+2.0_2.5.5-0ubuntu2: Installed [optional:out-of-date] 
[01:16] <lamont> have a nice day. :-(
[01:16] <lamont> seb128: if you change the dep in epiphany-browser, let me know so I can kick the dep-wait
[01:17] <seb128> lamont: yeah, I've switch the glib/gtk versions in the first upload and fixed with the second
[01:17] <lamont> seb128: gnome-media's issue is that   capplets: Depends: libxklavier9 (>= 1.11) but it is not installable (libxklavier10 replaces it...)
[01:18] <lamont> seb128: so clear the depwait?
[01:18] <seb128> yeah please
[01:18] <seb128> I'll fix the libxklavier/control-center issue
[01:19] <lamont> seb128: kicked
[01:19] <seb128> thanks
[01:19] <lamont> seb128: you'll be uploading new capplets, yes?
[01:19] <seb128> yes, in about 10min
[01:19] <lamont> ok.  just trying to figure out what to d-w
[01:19] <jdub> pants off
[01:20] <seb128> hey jdub 
[01:20] <jdub> seb128: craaaaazy gnome release action :)
[01:20] <lamont> amusingly, control-center is d-w libgnomeui-dev (>= 2.8.0-1)
[01:20] <seb128> he he
[01:20] <lamont> and we have -0ubuntu1
[01:20] <seb128> lamont: arg, will fix that in the same time
[01:20] <seb128> thanks
[01:21] <seb128> due to the sync with deb
[01:21] <lamont> seb128: if you upload within 8 minutes, that'd be just dandy...
[01:26] <seb128> lamont: grrr, nop, will not be ok. I need to add a patch will take a few min ..
[01:27] <lamont> seb128: np
[01:28] <lamont> so would be best if you get it uploaded before the hour. :-)
[01:28] <lamont> otherwise, at is my friend.
[01:30] <seb128> rebuilding it with the fix now
[01:30] <seb128> it the build is ok I'll upload in a few min
[01:35] <lamont> kewl
[01:41] <mdz> lamont: what's the latest on #4078?
[01:43] <lamont> mdz: checking now
[01:43] <mdz> thanks
[01:47] <lamont> mdz: mlocktest.c gives 1 in a chroot on i386, 0 on the other 2.
[01:48] <mdz> lamont: what kernel is it running?
[01:48] <lamont> and outside the chroot gives 0
[01:49] <mdz> aha
[01:49] <mdz> so the question becomes
[01:49] <mdz> "wtf"
[01:49] <lamont> Linux macaroni 2.6.8.1 #1 SMP Wed Nov 17 15:00:00 GMT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[01:49] <mdz> so it's a chroot thing, apparently
[01:49] <mdz> what's different about that chroot?
[01:49] <mdz> it has /proc mounted and all that nice sort of stuff?
[01:50] <lamont> proc mounted
[01:50] <mdz> lamont: strace it and see what error is returned my mlock
[01:50] <mdz> s/my/by/
[01:50] <lamont> sec
[01:51] <elmo> meh, alsa's so crap
[01:51] <elmo> if I run xmms with alsa, I can stall music entirely by doing 'ls /usr/lib'... oss is fine
[01:52] <elmo> that's even with xmms reniced to -15
[01:52] <lamont> GAH
[01:52] <lamont> now it's working
[01:52] <lamont> even not-strace
[01:52] <lamont> d
[01:52] <chrisa> I decided to shy away from alsa since my sb live! cards work flawlessly with oss
[01:52] <seb128> lamont: control-center uploaded
[01:52] <lamont> seb128: thanks
[01:52] <seb128> np
[01:53] <lamont> seb128: once I finally get back home, I think I may just clear all the dep-wait.s..
[01:53] <seb128> should be ok
[02:09] <lamont> mako: so is the key-signing bof scheduled already?
[02:09] <lamont> seb128: control-center given back
[02:25] <jdub> seb128: going to propose python-gnome2-extras for desktop? :)
[02:25] <seb128> yep
[02:25] <jdub> cool
[02:26] <seb128> but not today, that's time to sleep :)
[02:26] <seb128> and the packaging is stucked at this point
[02:26] <jdub> sleep well :)
[02:27] <jdub> aww, and i'm just uploading eog ;)
[02:27] <seb128> some of the new modules need the new gnome-vfs, new gnomevfs without vfolder -> new panel -> gnome-menu -> not released
[02:27] <jdub> heh
[02:27] <jdub> d'oh
[02:27] <seb128> so this part is for tomorrow :)
[02:28] <seb128> 'night guys
[03:16] <mdz> jdub: are you using mvo's apt-authentication stuff yet?
[03:16] <jdub> no
[03:16] <mdz> why not? :-)
[03:16] <mdz> I'd harrass everyone else, too, but you're awake
[03:16] <jdub> heh
[03:16] <jdub> maaaaaaan
[03:20] <mdz> it should be totally transparent if you only use Ubuntu sources
[03:20] <mdz> and other sources should present a nice warning prompt (apt-get) or dialog (synaptic)
[03:23] <jdub> mdz: hrm, can't find the url
[03:23] <mdz> jdub: deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mvo/apt-authentication/ /
[03:23] <mdz> it had
[03:24] <mdz> (hoary is old news :-P)
[03:24] <jdub> ;)
[03:24] <jdub> oof, there goes my entire packaging toolset ;)
[03:28] <mdz> hey, there's no dpkg in there
[03:28] <tseng> off topic, but i know you guys are into this
[03:28] <tseng> is it worthwhile to switch to arch for a small project
[03:29] <Clint> tseng: absolutely
[03:29] <mdz> the best answer I can give is...almost :-)
[03:30] <mdz> tseng: there is a certain amount of pain involved in arch at the moment, which may not be offset by the benefits for a small project
[03:30] <jdub> tseng: it will progressively get better ;)
[03:30] <mdz> tseng: but that pain is actively being reduced
[03:30] <mdz> tseng: http://www.canonical.com/projects/bazaar/
[03:30] <tseng> CVS is pain
[03:33] <mdz> tseng: if you're doing the sorts of things that make CVS painful, then by all means, go for arch
[03:34] <tseng> thanks for the link, ill try that once i grok the basics
[03:35] <mdz> the baz repository makes a good test case for the apt authentication code in /topic :-)
[03:35] <tseng> hm
[03:35] <tseng> ya back in gentoo they are still quibbling over how to validate/distribute keys
[03:36] <tseng> longest running project ever
[03:37] <tseng> im sure you folks will come up with a clever solution
[03:40] <mdz> that's the hardest part of the problem
[03:40] <mdz> our clever interim solution is to ship a key with the package
[03:41] <mdz> which can authenticate things in the Ubuntu archive
[03:41] <tseng> which works until someone along the line is compromised, the key is revoked, and you publish a new apt
[03:41] <jdub> i thought mvo disliked that solution?
[03:42] <tseng> but it fails to authenticaate with the new key
[03:44] <mdz> jdub: none of us are particularly happy with it in the long term
[03:44] <jdub> Release.gpg!
[03:44] <mdz> but it lets us bootstrap things
[03:45] <mdz> tseng: in the event of a key compromise, there isn't much to be done except validate by hand to get things going again
[03:45] <tseng> jdub: sorry about your oo bug, i was running in and out
[03:45] <jdub> whichwhat?
[03:45] <jdub> oh
[03:45] <jdub> yeah
[03:45] <tseng> i mis-duped you =/
[03:49] <mdz> http://www.lalugs.org/#meetings
[03:49] <mdz> ^^ all the LUGs I can visit within an hour or so travel time
[03:49] <mdz> armed with a nice stack of CDs now
[03:50] <tseng> a LUG around here was crazy enough to ask me to speak at their mini-conf
[03:51] <tseng> http://cplug.net/conference
[03:51] <tseng> its like the selinux symposium after-party
[03:53] <mdz> nice
[03:53] <mdz> got ubuntu CDs? :-)
[03:54] <tseng> no cds here
[03:55] <mdz> didn't order any, or they haven't arrived yet?
[03:55] <tseng> never ordered
[03:55] <tseng> i didnt immediately grasp the concept
[03:55] <mdz> where do you live?  I have some extra :-)
[03:55] <tseng> free cds, it felt like leeching
[03:56] <tseng> now that they are going out in mass shipments i realize the point
[03:56] <jdub> tseng: it's purposeful leeching :)
[03:56] <tseng> its like a dealer passing out his sweetest crack at the concert
[03:56] <tseng> mdz: PA
[03:57] <mdz> wrong coast
[03:58] <Clint> no, you're on the wrong coast
[03:59] <tseng> this time of year, he's on the proper coast
[03:59] <tseng> come summer time he'll be sorry
[03:59] <Clint> no, no, it's almost ski time
[04:08] <mdz> over here we have both a pleasant climate _and_ better skiing
[04:09] <jdub> 35 degrees C here :)
[04:09] <jdub> going up :)
[04:10] <Clint> mdz: I don't believe you.
[04:12] <mdz> I'll confess, I'm not much of a skier myself
[04:12] <mdz> but the mountains are, well, _bigger_
[04:12] <Clint> I hear bad things about the wetness.
[04:13] <Clint> You're not counting the Rockies, are you?
[04:15] <mdz> of course
[04:16] <Clint> that's a bit of a stretch from the coast
[04:16] <mdz> a few thousand miles closer to here than there :-P
[04:27] <mako> lamont: that's a very good point re the keysigning
[04:28] <mako> lamont: i will need to do that
[04:28] <mako> mdz: they go fast
[04:29] <jdub> mako: when's the second lot of CDs going out?
[04:29] <mako> mdz: i ordered nearly 400 that came in two boxes.. iD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D just threw away the first box today 
[04:29] <mako> jd	i've already sent the list
[04:29] <mako> whoa
[04:29] <jdub> hr
[04:29] <jdub> ahr
[04:29] <jdub> ok
[04:29] <mako> they should be going on this week
[04:29] <mako> and the next couple
[04:30] <mako> i'm going to order like 300 more i think
[04:30] <mako> i've been giving them out to people i meet in bars
[04:30] <mako> seriously
[04:31] <mako> people love it :)
[04:32] <mako> everybody <3 ubuntu
[04:37] <mdz> mako: I ordered about 200; they came in ~10 bags
[04:38] <mako> mdz: really?! :)
[04:38] <mako> wow.. that sounds pretty annoying
[04:38] <mdz> XF86XK_AudioRaiseVolume
[04:38] <mdz> er
[04:38] <mdz> http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/pics/mjw/2004/11/29/
[04:38] <mdz> about 10 of those
[04:38] <mako> un/pw?
[04:39] <mdz> yin/yang
[04:39] <mdz> I was fairly sure the authentication dialog had the u/p in it :-)
[04:39] <mako> yes, you did
[04:39] <tseng> omg, they have pr0n on the box
[04:39] <mdz> but my browser's cached it
[04:39] <mako> i saw it just after i ask:)
[04:39] <mdz> that's actually a different matt's page
[04:40] <mako> yeah, we might as well have two matts
[04:40] <mdz> but that's the sort of bag they came in
[04:40] <mako> we have two of everything else :)
[04:41] <mdz> we have more than two already :-)
[04:41] <mako> excellent!
[04:41] <mako> backups
[04:41] <mdz> mdz, mjg59, m_tthew off the top of my head
[04:41] <mako> only one mako
[04:41] <mako> but there is a guy who has posted a few times onto debian-devel named Ben Hill
[04:42] <mako> he reads my blog and posts comments sometimes
[04:42] <Clint> how'd your nylug thing go?
[04:42] <mako> Clint: i will post slides and stuff in the next couple days
[04:42] <mako> Clint: it went really well i think
[04:43] <mako> people seemed to be really into it
[04:43] <mako> clint: i met with jimmy kaplowitz with greg pomerantz saturday night as well :)
[04:43] <jdub> only one jeff
[04:43] <jdub> i've taken out the others
[04:43] <Clint> sorry I missed that
[04:44] <mako> Clint: nylug is a pretty good crowd.. it's a bit more formal than i'm used to in a LUG but the people are interested and active
[04:44] <Clint> yeah, they're the most suity of the NYC LUGs
[04:44] <mako> Clint: heh, it's a little bit of a culture shock with me
[04:44] <mako> Clint: i'm not so suity, to say the least
[04:45] <Clint> have you encountered the rival lugs yet?
[04:45] <mako> i mean, i wear suits, but culturally
[04:45] <jdub> nylxs :)
[04:45] <mako> yeah, there is that one that is super exclusive
[04:45] <mako> like you can't become a member unless you write articles for them and do all this other crazy stuff
[04:46] <Clint> nylxs claims not to be a lug, no?
[04:46] <mako> and there is the one seems to be the linux + BROOKLYISTHECENTEROFTHEUNIVERSE user group
[04:46] <mako> yeah i think so
[04:46] <Clint> well, brooklyn is the center of the universe
[04:46] <mako> fair enough :P
[04:47] <Clint> this is making me all nostalgic
[04:47] <mako> also there is LXNY
[04:47] <mako> or something like that
[04:47] <mako> that seems to be mostly defunct but organized a talk with steve bourne
[04:47] <mako> who convinced me to write an article on packaging
[04:47] <mako> which is due tonight and which i am not done with
[04:47] <mako> DOH
[04:48] <lamont> mako: thank you
[04:48] <mako> steve bourne was *super* interested in packages.. i think he'd never heard of them :)
[04:48] <Clint> lxny has the most interesting characters, IMO
[04:49] <mako> so as part of this packaging article, i spent all yesterday afternoon having someone teach me about redhat packaging
[04:49] <mako> OMG ITS INSANE
[04:49] <Clint> people like their .spec files
[04:50] <mako> why would you ever want more than one file?
[04:50] <mako> when he told me about the localization is ALSO done within the same single file i nearly lost it
[04:51] <mako> the localization stuff seems pretty indefensible
[04:52] <mako> one of those situations where you wonder if personaly teaching your users english would be a better use of time and effort than i18n/l10n for your software :)
[05:17] <mdz> mako: i18n of what exactly?
[05:17] <mdz> surely not the software itself
[05:29] <lamont> mako: it's just like a tarball of debian/*, only different...
[05:32] <lamont> seb128 is not here. bummer
[05:36] <jdub> i just switched network devices with netapplet
[05:37] <jdub> and it unmounted every filesystem
[05:37] <jdub> or something...
[05:37] <jdub> mmm
[05:37] <jdub> i had to remount /, mount /home and mount /proc
[05:37] <jdub> bizahr
[05:56] <lamont> g'night
[06:07] <mako> mdz: everything that would bein the debian directory basically
[06:08] <mako> mdz: so they have localized sections, descriptions, and a bunch of other thing
[06:09] <mako> mdz: all in that one file :)
[06:21] <stuNNed> so got acpi suspend to ram working disabling agp modules using nvidia driver, a first...and i have ques: can i file a bug regarding linuxant hsf modem support with ubuntu's bugzilla or am i barking up the wrong twig?
[06:24] <stuNNed> and last ques in 'gnome-pkgview' using hoary (report bugs when i can) i see alot of *-sharp gnome packages, is gnome-pkgview for real?
[06:48] <fabbione> morning
[08:10] <mdz> morning
[08:11] <jdub> morning
[08:11] <jdub> dude
[08:11] <jdub> totem http://home.waugh.id.au:8800/
[08:11] <jdub> or mplayer
[08:11] <jdub> or i guess you can load it up on your tv or something with mythtv ;)
[08:14] <fabbione> jdub: gimme an on-line finger :)
[08:14] <jdub> two! two!
[08:14] <fabbione> ARGH
[08:14] <fabbione> again?
[08:14] <pitti> Morning
[08:14] <fabbione> the stram just got interrupted
[08:14] <fabbione> and again
[08:14] <fabbione> your network sucks
[08:14] <jdub> my upstream b/w is horrific
[08:15] <fabbione> AHHAHA
[08:15] <fabbione> got them!
[08:15] <jdub> i'll kill the audio stream
[08:15] <mdz> jdub: what software are you using to drive that?
[08:15] <jdub> FLUMOTION
[08:15] <fabbione> ffmpeg would do too
[08:16] <mdz> mizar:[~]  apt-cache search flumotion
[08:16] <mdz> mizar:[~] 
[08:16] <fabbione> i used it to stream the tour the france in ericsson
[08:16] <jdub> mdz: it didn't build, still working on the package.
[08:17] <jdub> (only silly build-dep error; just uploaded it while elmo was awake)
[08:17] <jdub> stream's back
[08:17] <mdz> openoffice.org_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu4_source.changes ACCEPTED
[08:17] <jdub> woo
[08:17] <jdub> vorbis encoding is harsh on cpu
[08:18] <jdub> er, theora, rather
[08:18] <mdz> yes
[08:18] <mdz> and no hardware encoders
[08:18] <mdz> and we thought vorbis was an uphill battle :-P
[08:18] <jdub> heh
[08:24] <fabbione> OMG
[08:24] <fabbione> you are hugly at higher resolution
[08:24] <fabbione> HAHA
[08:24] <jdub> hugly? great! hug me now! :)
[08:25] <fabbione> do you mean spank me now?
[08:25] <fabbione> ok..
[08:25] <fabbione> now.. get naked
[08:25] <jdub> heh
[08:25] <jdub> ECHAN for cyber!
[08:25] <fabbione> AHHAHA
[08:25] <fabbione> Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes
[08:27] <jdub> was cool to be streaming as well as saving to disk
[08:27] <fabbione> jdub: remember to take the webcam to Mataro
[08:27] <fabbione> so we can stream some stuff live
[08:27] <jdub> :)
[08:28] <jdub> yeah, using mataro as a test case for linux.conf.au
[08:36] <Mithrandir> jdub: how bad is theora?
[08:38] <jdub> it sucks the life out of your cpu :)
[08:38] <jdub> to encode
[08:38] <jdub> but very little attention has been paid to optimisation so far
[08:40] <fabbione> jdub: you could try ffmpeg
[08:41] <Mithrandir> jdub: what kind of CPU do you need to do it real-time in decent quality?
[08:41] <jdub> Mithrandir: not sure, haven't spent enough time playing with it
[08:41] <jdub> fabbione: flumotion can encode anything gstreamer supports :)
[08:43] <jdub> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/5988
[08:45] <jdub> "While some of its ideas and technologies may not be new, I feel Ubuntu offers a degree of refinment that's just not present in similar projects."
[08:48] <mdz> someone just said on -users that their machine was "incredibly faster" after switching from linux-386 to linux-686
[08:49] <mdz> it's amazing what a little perception can do :-)
[08:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: don't ask them to measure. :)
[08:50] <fabbione> lol
[08:50] <fabbione> do we know where daniels is?
[08:50] <fabbione> yesterday he wasn't much around
[08:58] <mdz> he has been active in Bugzilla
[09:11] <mdz> fabbione: he just followed up to a bug a few minutes ago
[09:12] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[09:13] <mdz> jdub: what's the latest on ubuntu-bugs?
[09:13] <thom> i need to work out how to twiddle bugzilla i guess
[09:14] <mdz> thom: alternatively, you could hook me up with mysql privileges, since I seem to have inherited de facto bugzilla admin status for now
[09:16] <thom> sounds fine to me; can you send mail to admins since i'm surrounded by boxes currently? :/
[09:17] <mdz> thom: I'd be perfectly happy with a warty-bugs->ubuntu-bugs alias for now
[09:17] <mdz> should I ping elmo on that?
[09:18] <thom> prolly best right now, yeah
[09:18] <mdz> done
[09:19] <mdz> gah, tech board in <8 hours.  bed soon
[09:19] <Keybuk> Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- erotic graphical system activity monitor
[09:19] <Keybuk> *giggles*
[09:19] <mdz> we should schedule a different time for this stuff
[09:20] <Keybuk> mdz: such as?
[09:20] <Mithrandir> what kind of hard drive does the X40 use?  1.8" or 2.5"?
[09:20] <mdz> maybe afternoon .au / late night .au / morning europe
[09:20] <mdz> er
[09:20] <mdz> afternoon .au / late night .us
[09:20] <fabbione> mdz: MORNING EUROPE
 morning <-- approximately 0700 local time
[09:21] <Keybuk> mdz: dude, late night .us is past any reasonable time for me and Mark :)
[09:21] <thom> grah. APUE, UNP, and Applied Crypto are all great books, but bloody hell they weigh a tonne
[09:21] <mdz> anyway, bed
[09:22] <mdz> night all
[09:22] <thom> night mdz
[09:22] <Keybuk> nite dude
[09:22] <thom> oh, and Unix Power Tools just to add to the fun
[09:23] <Keybuk> thom: you're only going to .es, not .au
[09:23] <thom> no dude, that's thursday
[09:23] <thom> today i'm moving house
[09:23] <Keybuk> ahh
[09:23] <Mithrandir> thom: have phun :)
[09:24] <Keybuk> heh, I swear my book shelf defies gravity
[09:24] <fabbione> thom: you have all my understanding for the pain of moving
[09:24] <fabbione> thom: good luck
[09:24] <Keybuk> APUE, TCP/IP 1, 2 & 3, UNP 1 & 2, Knuth 1, 2 & 3 and The C Standard
[09:24] <thom> Keybuk: i'm beginning to think mine is a gaping hole in the space/time continuum
[09:25] <Keybuk> how far are you moving?
[09:25] <thom> the worrying thing is that trotsky's history of the russian revolution outweighs applied cryptography by some margin
[09:25] <Mithrandir> thom: why is that worrying?
[09:26] <Keybuk> which Russian Revolution?  or does it cover all of them?
[09:27] <thom> Mithrandir: the weightiest tome on my shelf is by a communist revolutionary terrorist! (or something)
[09:27] <thom> Keybuk: The. ;-)
[09:27] <Mithrandir> thom: he fought in his own country, then it's customary to call him freedom fighter.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: probably the October revolution (the one that happened in November).
[09:28] <Keybuk> we don't call them terrorists anymore
[09:28] <Keybuk> we call them "Mr. President"
[09:29] <Mithrandir> not when they're assassinated by order of the General Secretary of The Party.
[09:29] <thom> Mithrandir: yeah
[09:43] <pitti> mdz: still here?
[09:56] <fabbione> Kamion: ping
[10:14] <Kamion> mdz: openssh DH_COMPAT> there's no reason to bump it really - I don't believe in raising build-deps unnecessarily anyway, and all the backporters would whine at me :)
[10:14] <Kamion> fabbione: pong
[10:15] <fabbione> Kamion: did sven luther get worst with his skizophrenia recently?
[10:16] <Kamion> fabbione: it seems to ebb and flow
[10:16] <Kamion> fabbione: why?
[10:16] <fabbione> Kamion: because he doesn't even know how to count
[10:16] <fabbione> or he lost such ability quite recently
[10:16] <fabbione> :-)
[10:17] <Kamion> heh
[10:17] <Kamion> reference?
[10:17] <Kamion> ah, life is so much better now that I've kicked spamd into ACTUALLY DOING NETWORK TESTS
[10:19] <fabbione> Kamion: debian-boot or debian-kernel mailing list
[10:19] <fabbione> about the patch for udebs integration
[10:19] <fabbione> i am not sure what kind of mess he has in his head
[10:19] <fabbione> really
[10:19] <fabbione> i am confused
[10:19] <Kamion> fabbione: for what it's worth I totally agree that that patch is inappropriate for Debian
[10:19] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm glad you sent it, but it's just not going to work with the way d-i development runs
[10:20] <fabbione> Kamion: that's why i wrote "do what you want with it"
[10:20] <Kamion> d-i kernel packages are often uploaded much more frequently than actual kernel packages
[10:20] <fabbione> and that i am not pushing it for inclusion
[10:21] <Kamion> I haven't checked what Sven said; we certainly did have problems with apt limits at one point
[10:21] <Kamion> due to length of Binary: lines
[10:21] <fabbione> in terms: it can be done.. here is the patch or the prove
[10:21] <Keybuk> ooh!  5. Ubuntu 943 , 4. MEPIS 969  ... we could be about to swap places again :p
[10:22] <Kamion> fabbione: right
[10:23] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, Binary lines are fun
[10:27] <fabbione> Kamion: he is starting again the game of bouncing people around
[10:27] <fabbione> without even answering questions
[10:27] <fabbione> because he doesn't really understand what he is talking about
[10:33] <daniels> fabbione: sven luther?
[10:33] <fabbione> daniels: ahhaha
[10:34] <fabbione> how could you guess so?
[10:35] <doko> pitti: ping?
[10:38] <seb128> morning
[10:42] <daniels> eeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllmmmmmmmmmmmmmmooooooooooooooooooo
[10:42] <daniels> elmo: jackass's ftpd hates me
[10:42] <daniels> seb128: morning dude
[10:42] <seb128> hello daniels 
[10:51] <doko> mdz: ping?
[10:53] <daniels> seb128: did you just upload eog via ftp?
[10:53] <seb128> daniels: yes, why ?
[10:53] <daniels> i'm getting connection refused on jackass
[10:53] <daniels> sorry, connection reset by peer
[10:56] <Keybuk> daniels: seems ok from here
[10:56] <Keybuk> 220 jackass.warthogs.hbd.com FTP server (Poppy Upload Server) ready.
[10:58] <bob2> PUS!
[10:58] <daniels> shit, dbus broken
[11:09] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[11:10] <sivang> hi pitti! what's up?
[11:11] <pitti> sivang: the usual stuff. security review
[11:11] <pitti> silbs: this time it's a little more since I got a whole bunch (some 135) messages to review from the past
[11:11] <sivang> pitti : oh. researching/patching stuff..
[11:12] <sivang> pitti : do you remember the bash line to make foremail resort email from enrico?
[11:35] <pitti> sivang: no, I don't have the formail line
[11:43] <daniels> does anyone know if i8xx/i9xx hardware is available for ia64?
[11:43] <elmo> err, no
[11:43] <daniels> phat
[11:44] <mjg59> daniels: The graphics hardware is in the northbridge, so, uh, no
[11:52] <pitti> ping Kamion 
[11:53] <daniels> fabbione: should etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/92xprint-xpserverlist.sh
[11:53] <daniels> be installed anywhere?
[11:53] <daniels> it's in all the manifests, but never installed
[11:53] <daniels> notabug?
[11:53] <fabbione> daniels: notabug
[11:53] <fabbione> it's part of the xprint packages
[11:53] <jdub> HA HA HA:
[11:53] <jdub> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.gstreamer.devel/12118
[11:53] <jdub> very funny on so many levels
[11:53] <daniels> fabbione: phat
[11:54] <daniels> jdub: heh
[11:58] <fabbione> daniels: but was somebody bitching about it?
[11:59] <fabbione> clearly dpatch is crap
[12:00] <daniels> fabbione: no, I'm just trying to decipher the rather cryptic output of mir
[12:02] <fabbione> hmmm
[12:02] <fabbione> where is it?
[12:03] <daniels> elmo: is there a proper ia64 hoary chroot yet?
[12:03] <daniels> fabbione: scripts/manifest-install-reconcile validate
[12:03] <daniels> branden's crack script
[12:03] <fabbione> daniels: ah that!
[12:03] <daniels> yeah
[12:03] <fabbione> daniels: it is broken on i386
[12:03] <fabbione> i never had the time to look at it
[12:04] <elmo> daniels: dunno, haven't heard back from lamont about gcc-3.4, so I guess not
[12:04] <daniels> hooray!!!
[12:04] <daniels> elmo: k
[12:04] <elmo> doko: ?
[12:07] <daniels> lamont: new xorg on p.u.c/~daniels/xorg/ which should build fine on ia64, please run another build around
[12:23] <Kamion> whoa, major display badness in base-config
[12:43] <daniels> fabbione: ping
[12:44] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[12:44] <fabbione> hmmm ok.. 2.6.9-1 at least compiles now
[12:45] <fabbione> on i386
[12:45] <fabbione> daniels: i will push your patches in -2 together with the other stuff
[12:45] <fabbione> given that i can manage to build it on ppc and amd64
[12:49] <daniels> fabbione: config.log for xpdf would be great
[12:50] <fabbione> on the way
[12:50] <daniels> cheers
[12:50] <fabbione> but these were the relevant part
[12:50] <fabbione> as usual this is on sparc dude
[12:50] <fabbione> if it works on our archs don't bother
[12:50] <fabbione> but i am pretty sure most of the failures are common
[12:51] <daniels> yeah
[12:51] <daniels> i don't see how it fails when it b-ds xlibs-dev
[12:52] <fabbione> daniels: probably something to do with libxkb ?
[12:52] <daniels> oh, christing puce
[12:52] <daniels> nope, I bet it needs xutils
[12:52] <fabbione> or any of the others that we splitted
[12:53] <daniels> but I have no idea htf that suddenly slipped out, because we didn't touch that
[12:53] <daniels> could you please throw xutils in b-d and run it around the sparc again?
[12:54] <fabbione> daniels: not in a short time
[12:54] <fabbione> i am giving love to 2.6.9
[12:54] <jdub> * fabbione humps 2.6.9's leg.
[12:55] <fabbione> jdub: where is the inofity patch?
[12:56] <daniels> fabbione: ok
[12:56] <jdub> fabbione: one sec
[12:59] <jdub> fabbione: people.ubuntulinux.org/~jdub/inotify-0.15.diff
[01:00] <Kamion> LatArCyrHeb-* seem to have the greatest coverage
[01:03] <fabbione> jdub: fix the permissions :-) 403
[01:06] <jdub> d'oh :)
[01:06] <jdub> try again?
[01:06] <fabbione> 403
[01:07] <jdub> go go go!
[01:08] <fabbione> better
[01:09] <fabbione> hmmmm
[01:09] <fabbione> it's not extremely intrusive
[01:10] <daniels> fabbione: re dpatch, I know what you mean -- I lost a fair bit of work to it also
[01:10] <fabbione> daniels: is sabdfl there around?
[01:10] <elmo> how do you lose work to dpatch?
[01:10] <daniels> fabbione: yah
[01:11] <fabbione> elmo: when it doesn't realize about conflicts and keep patching pile of crap on top of each other
[01:11] <fabbione> daniels: is he busy?
[01:11] <daniels> reading mail afaict
[01:11] <fabbione> ok
[01:11] <GyrosGeier> elmo, BTW, would you appreciate being sent patches against the gnupg package to bring it up to 1.2.6, or would I waste time preparing them?
[01:12] <azeem> elmo: dpatch makes your life easier, thus you have to work less :)
[01:13] <daniels> fabbione: btw, the thunderbird ftbfs is libxp-dev's fault, and xrestop wouldn't get proper shlibs until a fixed libxres is up
[01:13] <daniels> fabbione: so I'm waiting to upload xorg first (should happen today, barring any major disasters)
[01:14] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[01:15] <elmo> GyrosGeier: erk, I didn't realise there was that kind of bug fixes in 1.2.6
[01:16] <elmo> GyrosGeier: don't worry about it, i started at the weekend - if it's got important bug fixes, I'll try and look at it.. err not this evening, 'cos I'm travelling, but by tomorrow anyway
[01:16] <GyrosGeier> elmo, no hurry.
[01:18] <GyrosGeier> elmo, the bug fix in question isn't in 1.2.6, it will probably only be in 1.2.7.
[01:19] <GyrosGeier> elmo, I'd have sent that one as an extra dpatch.
[01:19] <elmo> oh - well do you want to send me the patch to it?
[01:19] <daniels> fabbione: well, I want to get a successful build on ia64 first
[01:19] <daniels> make lamont quiet down ;)
[01:19] <daniels> elmo: is there an ia64 chroot anywhere I can build in?
[01:19] <GyrosGeier> elmo, sure
[01:19] <daniels> elmo: waiting until 7pm or so for lamont to show is ... er, unappealing
[01:20] <elmo> daniels: dude, do you have ADD?
[01:20] <elmo> I'm sure you asked me that question less than 3 hours ago
[01:20] <daniels> elmo: 'anywhere' doesn't imply 'proper'
[01:20] <jdub> dudes
[01:20] <jdub> need some skin testing
[01:20] <elmo> daniels: I can give you a sid or sarge chroot?
[01:20] <jdub> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~jdub/calendar/
[01:21] <daniels> elmo: that would be great, if I could build render, get that installed, build xrender, get that installed, then kick off xorg
[01:21] <GyrosGeier> elmo, it's the key selection algorithm, which happily selects a key with only unknown "usage" flags for default usage -- which means my RSA authentication key is used for encryption to me, but my smartcard can only sign with that key. :-)
[01:23] <daniels> jdub: well, my background capplet hangs, fwiw
[01:24] <daniels> writev(21, [{"GIOP\1\2\1\0\272\2\0\0", 12}, {"\260\351\377\277\3\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\34\0\0\0\0\0\0\0Z\316"..., 698}] , 2) = 710
[01:24] <daniels> futex(0x8090060, FUTEX_WAIT, 
[01:24] <daniels> word
[01:26] <Mithrandir> so does nautilus here
[01:26] <fabbione> there... and 2.6.9 compiles on amd64
[01:26] <daniels> jdub: aside from the hang, it's rad
[01:29] <rburton> jdub: re: wallpaper. WAHEY
[01:29] <daniels> the only word to describe it is 'guff'
[01:30] <jdub> there's another one of eileen too
[01:30] <daniels> ok, am I drunk, or is this just stupendously crap?
[01:30] <daniels> include/asm/setup.h:8:28: asm-m68k/setup.h: No such file or directory
[01:30] <jdub> but it's a bit more raunch
[01:30] <daniels> (hoary-chroot)daniels@davis:~/kernel/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1.4 $ head -n 1 /usr/include/asm-m68k/setup.h
[01:30] <daniels> /*
[01:30] <daniels> jdub: which one is eileen?
[01:31] <jdub> the blonde
[01:31] <daniels> ahr
[01:31] <daniels> so is that january?
[01:31] <GyrosGeier> elmo, send as a (wishlist) bug or as mail?
[01:32] <jdub> december
[01:32] <elmo> GyrosGeier: either is fine
[01:32] <daniels> jdub: er, didn't you just put december up?
[01:32] <GyrosGeier> elmo, okay, thanks a lot!
[01:32] <jdub> oh
[01:33] <jdub> right, so, eileen-raunch won't be january, because we're using her for december
[01:33] <jdub> january will probably be CONTROVERSIAL MAN NUDITY
[01:33] <fabbione> jdub: nooo
[01:33] <jdub> i expect people will make a big deal about it ;)
[01:33] <fabbione> put naked santa for december!
[01:33] <jdub> heh
[01:36] <Kamion> GAH
[01:37] <rburton> jdub: december should be naked santa + elves
[01:37] <Kamion> it would *really* help if the tools I was using to look for characters in fonts (on a powerpc system, as it happens) were endian-clean
[01:37] <daniels> Kamion: yow
[01:37] <fabbione> jdub: do you realize that inotify patches only for i386?
[01:38] <Kamion> I was wondering why U+2500 (BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT HORIZONTAL) looked suspiciously like a percent sign
[01:38] <fabbione> jdub: i can try to add the few missing lines to amd64/ppc, but it will really need some extra test
[01:38] <jdub> serious?!
[01:38] <fabbione> patching file include/asm-i386/resource.h
[01:38] <fabbione> patching file arch/i386/kernel/init_task.c
[01:38] <fabbione> that's it
[01:38] <fabbione> do an lsdiff on the patch
[01:39] <Kamion> quality
[01:39] <jdub> fabbione: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/inotify/v2.6/0.16/inotify-0.16-wip-rml-2.6.10-rc2-9.patch
[01:39] <jdub> fabbione: that's rml's work in progress on 0.16
[01:39] <jdub> doesn't touch those files
[01:39] <fabbione> hmm
[01:39] <fabbione> too bad.. this onw was applying erfectly :-)
[01:40] <jdub> heh
[01:40] <fabbione> http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/inotify/README.dev
[01:40] <fabbione> Optionally set the permissions as you like:
[01:40] <fabbione> % chown root:root /dev/inotify
[01:40] <fabbione> % chmod 666 /dev/inotify
[01:40] <daniels> nice.
[01:40] <fabbione> And run, run free!
[01:41] <fabbione> jdub: are you going to package inotify utils?
[01:41] <jdub> fabbione: didn't know about them until about an hour ago ;)
[01:42] <fabbione> ahah this guy is fun
[01:42] <fabbione> inotify and you, happy ever after
[01:42] <jdub> yeah, rml is fun :)
[01:49] <seb128> jdub: please add "libgnome-menu0 gnome-menus libgnome-menu-dev" to the desktop seed 
[01:54] <jdub> seb128: ok :)
[01:55] <seb128> grrrr, new soname change in libgtop
[01:55] <seb128> that's getting annoying
[02:01] <daniels> (hoary-chroot)daniels@davis:~ $ cat foo.c
[02:01] <daniels> #include <asm-m68k/setup.h>
[02:01] <daniels> #include <stdio.h>
[02:01] <daniels> int main(int argc, char **argv[] ) { printf("christing puce\n"); return 0; }
[02:01] <daniels> (hoary-chroot)daniels@davis:~ $ gcc -o foo foo.c
[02:01] <daniels> (hoary-chroot)daniels@davis:~ $ 
[02:02] <fabbione> dude
[02:02] <fabbione> don't mess davis around
[02:02] <fabbione> i will need it soon and alive
[02:02] <fabbione> ;)
[02:02] <daniels> well, apparently asm-m68k/setup.h is unfindable as an include
[02:02] <daniels> which is funny
[02:02] <daniels> because it seems to be right there, in /usr/include
[02:02] <Kamion> what does "eth0: duplicate address detected" mean?
[02:02] <fabbione> Kamion: an ipv6 error probably
[02:02] <Kamion> my current install is spewing it over the terminal every so often
[02:02] <jdub> seb128: does gnome-menus depend on libgnome-menu0?
[02:03] <Kamion> didn't use to happen
[02:03] <fabbione> DAD has detected 2 machines with the same address
[02:03] <fabbione> Kamion: do you happen to have 2 machines with the same macaddress?
[02:03] <fabbione> even faked
[02:03] <fabbione> that would cause that kind of errro
[02:03] <fabbione> error
[02:04] <seb128> jdub: no, dunno if it should. It only contain .desktop/.menus files and gnome-menu-spec-test ... hum yes, it should for the gnome-menu-spec-test 
[02:04] <seb128> jdub: why ?
[02:05] <jdub> seb128: i'm just adding gnome-menus, that ought to bring the whole source pacakge into main
[02:05] <jdub> seb128: panel depends and so on will handle the other two :)
[02:05] <seb128> jdub: ok
[02:11] <Kamion> fabbione: don't think so, will check when I can
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: it can easily be a bug in DAD
[02:22] <lamont> daniels?
[02:22] <daniels> lamont: dude!
[02:22] <daniels> lamont: new xorg? :)
[02:23] <lamont> daniels: last I heard, it died in manifest, and I gave you the files... been waiting for an upload...
[02:23] <lamont> elmo/daniels: gcc-3.4 is a doko question, I believe
[02:23] <daniels> lamont: there's a new one on p.u.c/~daniels/xorg that I wouldn't mind a test on
[02:23] <daniels> easier than another upload
[02:23] <lamont> ah, ok
[02:23] <daniels> lamont: ok, cool
[02:24] <fabbione> Inotify file change notification support (INOTIFY) [Y/n/?]  (NEW) 
[02:25] <fabbione> i am really not sure what to answer here
[02:25] <fabbione> ;)
[02:25] <jdub> yay :)
[02:25] <jdub> YAY FABBIONE DON'T MAKE ME HURT YOU
[02:25] <fabbione> jdub: we need to see if it compiles everywhere first
[02:25] <lamont> xorg is ftbfs...  no xorg
[02:25] <fabbione> let's not get overexcited
[02:26] <lamont> daniels: this is going to require more time to get started than I have right now.  need to take the kids to school in about 5 minutes.
[02:26] <daniels> lamont: how's it ftbfs, btw?
[02:26] <lamont> jdub: working on spark, eh?
[02:26] <zul> umm...on the conference page on the wiki shouldnt that be Devember 5 rather than august 5
[02:26] <lamont> daniels: missing build-deps
[02:26] <daniels> lamont: huh?
[02:26] <daniels> they haven't changed since the last run
[02:26] <lamont> because of xorg delivering some arch: all packages that replace xfree86 ones.
[02:27] <zul> mdz: ping
[02:27] <daniels> i'm confused, but ok
[02:27] <lamont> daniels: I upgrade the chroots nightly
[02:27] <daniels> lamont: ehm, ok
[02:27] <lamont> amd a recent nightly upgrade broke everything that needs X.
[02:27] <fabbione> daniels: mozilla fails exactly as thunderbird
[02:28] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, libxp-dev bustage
[02:28] <daniels> lamont: nice!
[02:29] <fabbione> daniels: i am adding stuff to 4208
[02:29] <fabbione> daniels: let's keep it as metabug
[02:30] <daniels> k
[02:30] <daniels> but
[02:30] <daniels> please file a separate bug for xp-depends-on-xau
[02:30] <fabbione> daniels: i am not digging into the details
[02:30] <fabbione> daniels: i am just watching failures
[02:34] <elmo> apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: libunwind.so.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[02:34] <lamont> daniels: Note, selecting xorg-common instead of xfree86-common
[02:34] <daniels> elmo: oops
[02:34] <Mithrandir> elmo: known problem.
[02:34] <daniels> lamont: right
[02:34] <lamont> elmo: that's a missing Depends that I thought got fixed.
[02:34] <lamont> Depends: libunwind7, fwiw
[02:34] <elmo> Mithrandir: I know it's known
[02:34] <elmo> but the fact is, sid is still fux0red
[02:35] <lamont> daniels: and that's why xorg won't build without applying a bat
[02:35] <daniels> lamont: xorg build-deps on xorg-common?
[02:35] <lamont> no.  xorg build-deps on something (X, from xfree86), that in turn, depends on xfree86-common
[02:35] <daniels> hooray!
[02:36] <lamont> and then we pick xorg-common instead, and none of the xf86 libraries are installable
[02:36] <lamont> and we die.
[02:36] <lamont> once I forced xfree86-common to install (wget & dpkg -i), then (and only then) are the build-deps for xorg installable.
[02:37] <daniels> heh
[02:37] <lamont> (which is to say, build started)
[02:37] <daniels> phat, thanks dude
[02:38] <daniels> by the way, nice work jimmying the jelly belly machine
[02:39] <lamont> daniels: so if you get anxious, beg elmo to look on floe for you.  (elmo - don't restart the buildd there - I need to prune the chroot before that happens.
[02:39] <lamont> log file won't go to rookery automatically
[02:39] <daniels> thanks dude
[02:39] <lamont> no log file --> totally opaque.
[02:40] <daniels> elmo: can you please look on floe?  are we there yet?  is it done?  are we there?
[02:40] <rburton> daniels: so how long would X take to build on a 200mhz 64-meg netwinder?
[02:40] <lamont> daniels: last build attempt died at 2:11:26 into the build attempt
[02:41] <lamont> but that's essentially done
[02:41] <lamont> so don't pester elmo before 2.5 hours have elapsed.
[02:41] <jdub> elmo: u-c{,-d} incoming
[02:42] <daniels> rburton: almost as long as the train from orpington to arrive
[02:42] <daniels> possibly longer
[02:42] <jdub> orpington spa!
[02:42] <rburton> daniels: blimey
[02:43] <daniels> elmo: is it possible to get access to floe so I can poke the logs without ADDing you out?
[02:43] <lamont> oh, and xpdf_3.00-9ubuntu3 is b0rked if no one has uploaded -4 yet
[02:43] <lamont> daniels: I expect the answer to that is 'no'
[02:44] <daniels> lamont: bugger
[02:44] <jdub> night boys and girls. and daniels.
[02:45] <thom> night jeffyweffy
[02:45] <daniels> agh, so much crack
[02:45] <daniels> jdub: night fluffy bunny
[02:45] <rburton> jdub: sleep tight
[02:46] <daniels> AGH
[02:50] <sivang> daniels : is it dead yet?
[02:51] <daniels> no, it's still bleeding and I intend to keep it alive for as long as possible
[02:53] <bob2> just add Type3 font rendering to gpdf
[02:55] <daniels> elmo: ping
[02:55] <daniels> elmo: (not about xorg)
[02:55] <elmo> daniels: ?
[02:55] <daniels> elmo: how difficult is it to get a hoary chroot + b-e + xpdf build-deps?
[02:55] <elmo> b-e?
[02:55] <daniels> this xpdf problem is totally wack
[02:56] <elmo> and what arch?
[02:56] <daniels> build-essential
[02:56] <daniels> i386 is fine
[02:56] <daniels> but i'll take what I can get
[02:56] <elmo> you get... [spins wheel] ... concordia!
[02:57] <bob2> haha
[02:57] <daniels> da da da da!
[02:57] <daniels> (can I pluck a duck?)
[02:58] <fabbione> not concordia please :-)
[02:58] <fabbione> i need to build the kernels :-)
[02:59] <thom> i doubt concordia cares
[02:59] <fabbione> i do
[03:00] <elmo> fabbione: dude, it's a dual proc machine
[03:00] <elmo> it really can handle a build of the kernel +xpdf at the same time
[03:00] <daniels> xpdf is, um, smal
[03:00] <fabbione> elmo: oh did you enable it in smp?
[03:00] <daniels> l
[03:00] <daniels> yes
[03:00] <elmo> fabbione: yeah
[03:09] <daniels> oh, bite me
[03:09] <daniels> xpdf is the frigging xprint issue
[03:09] <daniels> elmo: you can delete xpdf b-ds now, thanks
[03:09] <elmo> it was only lesstif, I'll leave them there
[03:09] <daniels> kthx
[03:09] <fabbione> next time i can run make -j 4
[03:09] <fabbione> and kill it :-)))
[03:09] <fabbione> MUHA MUHA MUHA
[03:09] <thom> you'll need to try harder than that
[03:09] <daniels> ... yeah
[03:09] <daniels> like, full archive rebuild in parallel
[03:09] <daniels> all with -j2
[03:09] <Kamion> ooh, 'sudo charset --tty=/dev/tty1 G0 /usr/share/consoletrans/trivial.trans' makes base-config's window borders display properly
[03:09] <Kamion> BECAUSE THAT WAS OBVIOUS
[03:09] <fabbione> AHHA
[03:09] <daniels> Kamion: duh
[03:39] <elmo> gaaaar
[03:39] <elmo> our buildd hacks break multi-distro uploads
[03:52] <elmo> daniels: halley has a sarge chroot if you still need it
[03:53] <daniels> elmo: ia64, yeah?
[03:53] <elmo> yeah
[03:54] <daniels>  ta
[03:54] <daniels> it's just xorg, really
[03:57] <lupus_> daniels, I have a multimedia keyboard and I open xev to get to keycodes and like 6 keys seem to generate no keypress event 
[03:58] <daniels> lupus_: yeah, that will happen
[03:59] <lupus_> why is this?
[03:59] <daniels> you have to load the layout for your keyboard
[03:59] <daniels> because they all use dodgy hacks that violate usb hid and ps/2 kb specifications
[04:01] <lupus_> hmm
[04:01] <lupus_> I found a patch from the keyboard manufacture
[04:02] <daniels> OH MY GOD THE POWERPC TOOLCHAIN IS SO BROKEN
[04:02] <lupus_> it has 2 patches: hid-core.c and hid-input.c
[04:02] <daniels> if I run make with CFLAGS=-I/usr/include, it works
[04:03] <elmo> dude, the chance that that is in fact the toolchain being broke is so unbelivably small
[04:03] <elmo> if gcc couldn't get /usr/include right, I think we would have noticed by now
[04:04] <daniels> elmo: davis:~daniels
[04:04] <daniels> in the hoary chroot, cd to ~daniels/kernel/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1.4
[04:04] <daniels> broken: make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3-power3 SUBDIRS=/home/daniels/kernel/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1.4/debian/build/2.6.8.1-3-power3/madwifi/ath_hal modules
[04:04] <daniels> not broken:  make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3-power3 SUBDIRS=/home/daniels/kernel/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-2.6.8.1.4/debian/build/2.6.8.1-3-power3/madwifi/ath_hal CFLAGS=-I/usr/include modules
[04:05] <Kamion> seems more likely that the un-overridden CFLAGS includes something that brekas
[04:05] <Kamion> breaks
[04:06] <daniels> Kamion: well, alright, but it was convenient to blame the toolchain ;)
[04:06] <fabbione> daniels: i don't want to destroy your dreams
[04:06] <fabbione> but linux-restricted-modules is NOT supposed to build anything on ppc
[04:07] <fabbione> only amd64 and i386
[04:07] <daniels> fabbione: yes it is.
[04:07] <Kamion> fabbione: recent change
[04:07] <daniels> fabbione: madwifi supports i386, amd64 and powerpc
[04:07] <fabbione> ahhhh
[04:07] <daniels> can you even tell gcc to ignore /usr/include?
[04:09] <elmo> yes
[04:09] <elmo> in fact, if you give "-I", I think that wipes out the default includes
[04:09] <elmo> tho that may have been a bug that was fixed
[04:12] <Kamion> -nostdinc suppresses /usr/include
[04:14] <Kamion> hmm, I wonder where my old stack of floppies went
[04:14] <Kamion> oh yes, that's right, *1990*
[04:15] <Mithrandir> heh, that's one of the reasons I saved a huge bunch of floppies when we cleaned a bit in a room at my father's workplace.  Unused win95 install floppies.
[04:15] <Mithrandir> they were crucial to d-i's initial development. :)
[04:16] <Kamion> :)
[04:16] <Kamion> I'm sure MS would be happy to hear that
[04:16] <Mithrandir> it's probably in violation of the EULA or something
[04:16] <zul> nah...they wouldnt care
[04:22] <daniels> Kamion: ping?
[04:23] <Kamion> daniels: pong
[04:23] <daniels> Kamion: how flexible is your kernel-package-fu?
[04:23] <daniels> Kamion: i just had a flash of realisation -- l-k-h is irrelevant to *kernel* *modules*
[04:24] <daniels> so we need to install asm-* in the kernel packages
[04:24] <fabbione> eh?
[04:25] <fabbione> daniels: l-k-h is all you need... really
[04:25] <daniels> fabbione: for building a kernel module (i.e. madwifi)
[04:25] <fabbione> yes
[04:25] <fabbione> like the nvidia and all the others
[04:26] <daniels> which all build-dep on the relevant linux-headers package for each flavour
[04:26] <daniels> and use -nostdinc
[04:26] <fabbione> correct
[04:26] <daniels> ...
[04:26] <fabbione> see the nvidia bits.. they don't ask for kernel-source
[04:26] <fabbione> they ask for headers
[04:26] <fabbione> that's all they need
[04:27] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you do _not_ want l-k-h, you want l-h.
[04:27] <daniels> the nvidia bits ask for l-h
[04:27] <daniels> l-k-h is for userspace programs, l-h is for kernel stuff
[04:27] <daniels> why I didn't realise that I was building a kernel module ages ago is beyond me
[04:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes.. that one
[04:28] <daniels> fabbione: right
[04:28] <fabbione> daniels: sorry it was l-h
[04:28] <daniels> fabbione: what's happening is that asm-ppc/setup.h in l-h #include's asm-m68k/setup.h
[04:29] <daniels> which gets nicely optimised out
[04:30] <fabbione> i would suggest you nicely ship your own copy of that file
[04:30] <daniels> argue it with elmo
[04:31] <lupus_> oeh openoffice now upgrades :)
[04:32] <fabbione> daniels: i really think this is a "one exception" situation
[04:32] <daniels> fabbione: not really, it's sprinkled throughout asm-*
[04:32] <fabbione> daniels: otherwise we should change all l-h
[04:32] <daniels> that's what I'm doing with l-s
[04:32] <fabbione> daniels: yes, but not all archs have that kind of situation
[04:32] <daniels> and the solution herbert suggested and elmo agreed to
[04:33] <daniels> s/to/with/
[04:33] <daniels> so I'm going to defer to those experience
[04:36] <Kamion> daniels: heh, I see everyone else beat me to it while I was hunting for floppies
[04:36] <daniels> Kamion: l-h?
[04:36] <Kamion> daniels: yep
[04:36] <Kamion> daniels: l-k-h is only for internal use by glibc
[04:36] <daniels> yeah
[04:36] <Kamion> (and by broken packages)
[04:36] <daniels> Kamion: a sound of me smacking my head into the desk resonated around the lunchpad
[04:37] <daniels> well, not really, but it was a massive 'oh shit' moment
[04:39] <pitti> Hi doko!
[05:00] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) daniels: what about them?
[05:00] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) elmo: is it still building on ia64?
[05:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp
[05:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/ffb_dri.so': No such file or directory
[05:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) dh_install: command returned error code 256
[05:02] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) thanks
[05:02] (elmo/#ubuntu-devel) is that all you need?
[05:03] (daniels/#ubuntu-devel) could you please remove usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/ffb_dri.so from debian/xlibmesa-dri.install.ia64, and run fakeroot d/r install?
[05:03] (sivang/#ubuntu-devel) ubuntulog is so shy today
[05:06] <elmo> make: Nothing to be done for `install'.
[05:06] <fabbione> sivang: ehehe
[05:06] <fabbione> sivang: it will never answer
[05:06] <daniels> elmo: er, sorry, binary-arch
[05:06] <fabbione> useless to msg him
[05:07] <elmo> dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp
[05:07] <elmo> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/ffb_dri.so': No such file or directory
[05:07] <elmo> I did edit the file ...
[05:07] <daniels> ahr, crap
[05:08] <daniels> could you please kick it out of xlibmesa-dri-dbg.install.ia64 also?  sorry
[05:08] <sivang> fabbione : well, I tried my luck :) I used to have long life philosophy talks with dpkg
[05:10] <elmo> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libxtt.a': No such file or directory
[05:12] <lupus_> lupus@lupus ~ $ oowriter
[05:12] <lupus_> I18N: X Window System doesn't support locale "en_US.UTF-8"
[05:12] <lupus_> normal?
[05:14] <daniels> lupus_: yes
[05:14] <daniels> bug, will be fixed
[05:14] <daniels> elmo: please prune that from xserver-xorg.install.ia64
[05:14] <daniels> elmo: sorry about this
[05:16] <elmo> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/X11R6/man/man1/gtf.1x': No such file or directory
[05:18] <fabbione> all the man1 are now 1 and not 1x
[05:18] <fabbione> you can catch all of them in one shot
[05:18] <daniels> please change gtf.1x to gtf.1 and remove i810.4x in xserver-xorg.install.ia64
[05:18] <daniels> and that'll be it afaict
[05:19] <elmo> what about all the other 1x's, change them like fabbione said?
[05:20] <daniels> elmo: that's the only one left
[05:20] <elmo> oh, they're 4x's
[05:20] <daniels> yah
[05:20] <daniels> heh
[05:21] <fabbione> anybody with amd64 that feels REALLY lucky today?
[05:21] <bob2> thombot!
[05:21] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/kernel/
[05:22] <fabbione> ppc and i386 will arrive later
[05:22] <elmo> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/doc/Status': No such file or directory
[05:22] <elmo> if [ -e debian/tmp/usr/X11R6/man/man1/Xorg.1x ] ; then \
[05:22] <elmo> shouldn't that be .1 ?
[05:22] <daniels> good catch
[05:22] <fabbione> no
[05:23] <fabbione> the one after renames it
[05:23] <fabbione> to Xorg.1
[05:23] <fabbione> doesn't it?
[05:23] <elmo> not that I can see
[05:24] <daniels> elmo: please ditch just the Status
[05:24] <daniels> fabbione: i'll deal with Xorg.1*
[05:24] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, elmo's right, it's busted, so I've fixed
[05:25] <elmo> daniels: ditch it from where?
[05:25] <fabbione> xserver-xorg.doc iirc
[05:26] <daniels> xserver-xorg.docs.ia64
[05:28] <fabbione> mdz: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/kernel/changelog
[05:28] <fabbione> mdz: i know you have an amd64...
[05:28] <fabbione> so dig in that dir and test please :-9
[05:29] <fabbione> daniels: i will try to add your patches tomorrow
[05:29] <fabbione> daniels: 210 lines of summarized changelog are scary enough already
[05:29] <elmo> looks happier now, it's up to dh_shlibdep-ing
[05:30] <daniels> fabbione: nice
[05:30] <daniels> elmo: thanks heaps
[05:30] <lupus_> oeh inotify :p cool :)
[05:31] <fabbione> lupus_: if it works...
[05:31] <fabbione> these packages are like: they compile: cool.. they work
[05:32] <lupus_> I wonder if gamin needs a recompile to make it use inotify
[05:32] <fabbione> lupus_: don't run
[05:32] <fabbione> there are several things that needs to be done before that
[05:32] <lupus_> k :)
[05:33] <fabbione> like making udev aware of inotify
[05:33] <fabbione> and test
[05:33] <lupus_> ah didn't know udev also could use it
[05:34] <fabbione> udev needs to create the device
[05:34] <fabbione> it doesn't use it
[05:34] <fabbione> but without the device the application does nothing
[05:34] <lupus_> ic
[05:48] <elmo> daniels: that worked btw
[05:58] <enrico> fabbione: Lupin usa Linux!
[05:58] <enrico> sorry, that shuold have been private
[06:01] <daniels> elmo: cheers
[06:02] <Kamion> elmo: are the other daily-installer-* uploads still waiting in byhand?
[06:02] <daniels> concordia is whizzy and fun
[06:03] <elmo> Kamion: they didn't exist last I looked
[06:04] <elmo> yeah, just amd64 got uploaded
[06:04] <Kamion> huh, weird
[06:04] <Kamion> they all built fine
[06:04] <fabbione> Kamion: why weird?
[06:05] <fabbione> because they found the udebs?
[06:05] <fabbione> ;)
[06:05] <Kamion> fabbione: I thought lamont autosigned and autouploaded stuff nowadays
[06:05] <Kamion> fabbione: no, I mean weird that they didn't get uploaded, not that they built, you tramp :P
[06:05] <fabbione> Kamion: ahahha
[06:05] <fabbione> Kamion: amd64 built 2.6.9-1 + udebs btw
[06:06] <fabbione> and dunno if you noticed that there is a ufs udeb
[06:06] <fabbione> not sure where that come from
[06:06] <fabbione> (also in 2.6.8.1)
[06:06] <mxpxpod> daniels: when is xorg 6.8.2 scheduled to be released?
[06:06] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, I noticed, that's been there for ages
[06:06] <Kamion> fabbione: it's support for os-prober code that Alastair never got round to writing
[06:06] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:06] <Kamion> fabbione: guess I have to change debian-installer over to 2.6.9 soon ...
[06:06] <fabbione> Kamion: i need at least another day to be able to upload
[06:07] <fabbione> + consider the breakage
[06:07] <Kamion> indeed
[06:07] <fabbione> because i am sure that something will go wrong
[06:08] <fabbione> it's too long that i don't play with the kernel at this level
[06:08] <Kamion> fabbione: the installer's broken at the moment as it is :P
[06:08] <Kamion> (thanks, udev)
[06:08] <fabbione> eheh
[06:08] <fabbione> that will give you a couple of days before it will break for the kernel
[06:08] <fabbione> ahha
[06:09] <daniels> mxpxpod: dec 17th, but that will almost certainly slip to the new year, thanks to the fd.o compromise
[06:11] <elmo> Kamion: d-i's reset back to the non-daily variant for i386, powerpc.. you might want to bug lamont about it
[06:11] <mxpxpod> daniels: suck
[06:11] <Kamion> elmo: hmm? EPARSE
[06:11] <elmo> oh, sorry.. in wanna-build
[06:12] <elmo> the version number's gone back to what's in the archive, rather than the version number hack, lamont uses for the daily build
[06:12] <Kamion> lamont_r: good timing to show up
[06:12] <elmo> which is why it can't upload
[06:12] <Kamion> lamont_r: (this is re the daily d-i build, see what elmo said ...)
[06:13] <lamont_r> gah
[06:13] <lamont_r> version number hack got lost?
[06:13] <elmo> no, worked for amd64
[06:13] <elmo> but not i386/powerpc.. maybe it's a timing issue again?
[06:21] <lamont_r> daniels: you here?
[06:22] <elmo> lamont: btw, I finished the floe build for him
[06:22] <lamont_r> finished == gave him the error log?
[06:22] <lifeless> mdz: care to package baz 1.0 now ?
[06:22] <lifeless> sample debs on bazaar.canonical.com
[06:22] <mdz> lifeless: TB meeting in progress
[06:22] <lifeless> oops, sorry.
[06:23] <lamont_r> could be a timing issue, could be that the script didn't get overwritten on amd64...  will look
[06:23] <lifeless> I won't ask what TB means.
[06:23] <elmo> lamont: iterated through, building it until it finished successfully
[06:23] <daniels> Uploading via ftp xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu4_source.changes: done.
[06:23] <daniels> Successfully uploaded packages.
[06:23] <daniels> Not running dinstall.
[06:23] <daniels> daniels@chinstrap ~/tmp-upload $ 
[06:23] <daniels> \o/
[06:23] <daniels> lamont_r: sup?
[06:23] <daniels> lifeless: tech board
[06:23] <lamont_r> ah, ok.  because the last log I saw had errors...
[06:23] <daniels> lamont_r: yeah, elmo coaxed it through and I fixed stuff
[06:23] <lamont_r> ah, ok
[06:24] <lamont_r> daniels: when did you upload 4?
[06:24] <lamont_r> is in archive?
[06:25] <elmo> -rw-r--r--    1 poppy    poppy       15967 Nov 30 17:23 xorg_6.8.1-1ubuntu4_source.changes
[06:25] <elmo> in queue/unchecked
[06:25] <Kamion> lamont_r: if this is non-trivial to fix please let me know, 'cos otherwise I need to upload debian-installer - the version currently in the archive is broken
[06:25] <lamont_r> Kamion: will deal with it.  relatively trivial either way, just need to do it.
[06:26] <lamont_r> ok.
[06:26] <lamont_r> elmo: I need to babysit that through floe once it shows up, then I can restore floe to normal operation.
[06:37] <lamont_r> daniels: xorg/ia64 build-for-upload running now
[06:38] <elmo> err, if you're having to manually bootstrap this, aren't debian arches going to have the same problem?
[06:39] <daniels> lamont_r: awesome, thanks
[06:41] <lamont_r> elmo: xorg builds fine on architectures taht have xorg
[06:42] <elmo> which is crack, surely?
[06:42] <lamont_r> the issue is that apt chooses xorg-common over xfree86-common, so you have to force that issue before it builds on xfree86
[06:42] <elmo> what are you going to do, manually bootstrap the 9 other arches in Debian?
[06:42] <lamont_r> elmo: xorg-common is arch: all
[06:43] <lamont_r> so as long as all the binaries upload together.....
[06:43] <lamont_r> otherwise, daniels has some issues...
[06:43] <lamont_r> daniels: it might be easiest for debian if there weren't any arch: all packages (that were depended on by anything at least) for the initial upload, until all architectures have uploaded..
[06:43] <lamont_r> which is still a crackful hack
[06:44] <elmo> if it's just xorg-common apt gets wrong, surely you can just make that arch: any?
[06:44] <daniels> OH MY GOD
[06:44] <elmo> what?
[06:45] <daniels> dude, crack
[06:45] <elmo> Size: 826834
[06:45] <elmo> that x 11
[06:45] <lamont_r> elmo: xorg-common is the one I know.  the issue is anything else that he has replacing that thuroughly, which is depended on by anything
[06:45] <elmo> or manually bootstrap 8 architectures
[06:45] <elmo> I know which is crack, and it's not my suggestion
[06:45] <fabbione> daniels:    * Stop writing out HorizSync and VertRefresh lines to xorg.conf; if it can
[06:45] <elmo> but hey, it's your call, just don't expect me to manually bootstrap any of my Debian arches for you :-P
[06:46] <fabbione> this is going to break horribly
[06:46] <fabbione> good luck :-)
[06:46] <daniels> fabbione: so you say :)
[06:46] <fabbione> daniels: i can open a bug right now for it
[06:46] <daniels> elmo: blah, interesting
[06:46] <daniels> fabbione: eh, assign it to yourself if you're going to open it before we have any real bug reports
[06:46] <fabbione> daniels: you plug your nice monitor, ddc works perfectly
[06:46] <fabbione> daniels: you put a kvm switch, ddc doesn't go trough
[06:47] <fabbione> kthkbye...
[06:47] <fabbione> that's it
[06:47] <fabbione> same hardware
[06:47] <fabbione> the driver will go banana
[06:47] <fabbione> daniels: if you want i can test it with my 17" 
[06:47] <daniels> at the same time, we're actively tanking LCDs and DVIs with HS/VR
[06:47] <fabbione> daniels: directly connected it returns ddc
[06:48] <daniels> my first response to any display problems is to tell people to remove HS/VR, and it works in like almost all cases
[06:48] <fabbione> daniels: but not via the kvm
[06:48] <daniels> yes, I know the KVM case
[06:48] <fabbione> daniels: and i know my kvm is ok, since it returns properly ddc info from the 21"
[06:48] <daniels> i think the damage from KVM is far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far less than the current damage
[06:49] <elmo> why do kvm's hide ddc info anyways?
[06:49] <daniels> elmo: can you please requeue xpdf?
[06:49] <elmo> uh?
[06:49] <daniels> fabbione: xpdf just needs a requeueing also
[06:49] <elmo> requeue it wear?
[06:49] <elmo> err where
[06:50] <daniels> elmo: all our buildds
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: because some of them are cheap and instead of passing all the 25(??) cables, they only pass the minimum they need
[06:50] <daniels> elmo: aiui vga needs the data pins, so it's also easier than dtrt in the ddc case
[06:50] <elmo> fabbione: duh, that sucks
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: others simply don't amplify signals properly
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: like you can see the image a bit blurry
[06:50] <fabbione> instead of sharp
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: i agree, but it is still a reality
[06:51] <elmo> yeah, I stopped using a mini-kvm thing at work 'cos of the image degradation
[06:51] <fabbione> elmo: i got a good one and i can't complain
[06:51] <elmo> that looked like a student's electronics homework tho
[06:51] <fabbione> it starts altering the image only over 1600x1200
[06:51] <fabbione> ehhehe
[06:51] <daniels> fabbione: requeue mozilla/mozilla-thunderbird also
[06:52] <elmo> daniels: what's changed that'll make xpdf build?
[06:54] <fabbione> daniels: i will after ubuntu4 will build
[06:54] <fabbione> daniels: otherwise it's useless
[06:54] <daniels> elmo: libxp-dev needed to dep libxau-dev; it was looking at the motif includes, which used the xp includes, which needed to dep libxau-dev, but didn't, so it decided we didn't have motif
[06:55] <daniels> thumbs up to motif!
[06:55] <fabbione> food
[06:55] <fabbione> later
[06:55] <elmo> daniels: then surely we have to wait for the new X to build?
[06:56] <daniels> elmo: er, yah
[06:56] <daniels> forgot about this 'multiple buildds' concept
[06:56] <daniels> fabbione: how far along are you with with 2.6.9?
[06:56] <Kamion> daniels: so presumably it needs a dep-wait rather than a requeue
[06:56] <daniels> fabbione: i want to look at it as soon as i can to get l-r-m up to speed
[06:56] <daniels> Kamion: well, yeah
[06:57] <daniels> Kamion: but don't bring sense into this
[06:57] <elmo> daniels: please ask lamont to do that then - i can't do it particularly easily
[06:57] <daniels> elmo: 'k
[06:57] <daniels> lamont_r: please dep-wait xpdf on libxp-dev 6.8.1-1ubuntu4
[06:58] <lamont_r> daniels: ok
[06:58] <daniels> lamont_r: ta
[06:59] <lamont_r> done
[07:00] <lamont_r> seb128: gnome-menus yours?
[07:00] <seb128> yep
[07:00] <lamont_r> :-(
[07:01] <seb128> raaaaah, I've tested it in a pbuider before uploading !
[07:01] <lamont_r> gnome-media is unhappy too
[07:01] <seb128> stupid control.in -> control stuff, I've forgotten to update it before rebuilding
[07:02] <seb128> yep, ok, will fix both now
[07:02] <seb128> thanks for noticing
[07:02] <seb128> we should have a http://people.debian.org/~igloo/status.php :p
[07:05] <lamont_r> what does that do?
[07:05] <lamont_r> is that ij's crap?
[07:05] <lamont_r> er, stuff/
[07:07] <elmo_away> no
[07:07] <elmo_away> it's igloo's, it's probably reasonably sane, but really we should spend time on a better backend, than frontend niceness
[07:07] <elmo_away> plus PHP makes me want to run screaming into the night
[07:16] <enrico> Hello.  Small question from the docteam: does ubuntu use stable->warty, unstable->hoary links like Debian?
[07:16] <enrico> Ehm, testing->hoary
[07:16] <enrico> plovs: I just asked
[07:17] <Kamion> enrico: not in the archive
[07:17] <Kamion> enrico: the CD has them for historical reasons (i.e. Kamion never got around to removing them from debian-cd and seeing what broke in d-i)
[07:19] <enrico> Kamion: ok.  since people were working on apt manpage, that is a needed piece of information
[07:19] <daniels> Kamion: kamion decided that in his wisdom, did he?
[07:19] <Kamion> daniels: yuh-huh
[07:19] <fabbione> daniels: probably tomorrow
[07:19] <daniels> fabbione: ok
[07:20] <daniels> Kamion: and how is Kamion today?
[07:20] <fabbione> daniels: amd64 needs testing, ppc and i386 are still building
[07:20] <daniels> fabbione: any chance I could get a look so I could start building l-r-m against it and see what breaks?
[07:20] <fabbione> daniels: the configs need to be alligned and than i need to stick your patches in
[07:21] <fabbione> daniels: hmmm not really.. no
[07:21] <daniels> fabbione: ok
[07:21] <fabbione> daniels: you can look at amd64
[07:21] <Kamion> daniels: 'nuff of the third person already. :)
[07:21] <fabbione> daniels: people.u.c/~fabbione/kernel
[07:22] <daniels> fabbione: er, source packages?
[07:22] <fabbione> daniels: ehm no.. i builded -b -B
[07:22] <fabbione> you will have to wait
[07:23] <_rene_> -b -B? isn't that redundant? ;)
[07:23] <daniels> well, as soon as you can give me a source package, I can start testing l-r-m with madwifi across amd64/i386/powerpc, nvidia across amd64/i386/ia64, fglrx just on i386, and updated versions of all three
[07:31] <fabbione> there is no ia64 kernel
[07:31] <daniels> not yet
[07:32] <daniels> but I put the infrastructure in for it to handle multiple versions on different architectures
[07:38] <fabbione> daniels: ppc just finished the build. i am rebuilding to verify the configs with arch all
[07:40] <mxpxpod> fabbione: we have a 2.6.9 .deb?
[07:41] <fabbione> mxpxpod: no
[07:41] <fabbione> not yet
[07:44] <mdz> thom: is today moving day?
[07:45] <mdz> ah, yes
[07:45] <daniels> mdz: yah, he's offline
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: p.u.c/~fabbione/kernel <- please test :-)
[07:47] <Kamion> ooh, I think I might be making progress with #3007
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: sorry.. did i ever ask you to test the amd64 kernel?=
[07:48] <mdz> fabbione: no, but I can do that
[07:48] <fabbione> oh thanks
[07:49] <fabbione> now.. time to figure out why the sparc kernel doesn't show char devices
[07:49] <fabbione> mdz: btw.. another hoarygoal is gone.. inotify is in 2.6.9
[07:49] <fabbione> no idea if it works
[07:50] <fabbione> we will figure it out :-)
[07:50] <mdz> fabbione: can you generate a Packages.bz2?
[07:50] <fabbione> mdz: sure...
[07:50] <mdz> fabbione: great, thanks
[07:50] <fabbione> sec
[07:51] <fabbione> mdz: deb http://blabla/kernel/ ./
[07:51] <mdz> thanks
[07:52] <pitti> fabbione: will gamin automatically use inotify if it is available?
[07:52] <fabbione> pitti: ENOCLUE
[07:52] <pitti> fabbione: or does that need some compile time tweaks?
[07:52] <pitti> fabbione: okay, nevermind
[07:52] <fabbione> pitti: read above what i wrote to lupus_
[07:53] <fabbione> pitti: first we need something (udev) to create the inotify device properly
[07:53] <fabbione> than check how to use it
[07:53] <fabbione> and see if the overall works
[07:53] <fabbione> repeat until
[07:53] <fabbione> pitti: instead i would like to know something more about the mail mdz has been sending
[07:54] <fabbione> since i am planning the upload for tomorrow
[07:54] <mdz> fabbione: booting amd64
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: with the new kernel?
[07:54] <mdz> yes
[07:54] <fabbione> uhuhuh
[07:54] <mdz> 2.6.9-1-amd64-k8
[07:54] <fabbione> check in the dmesg if you see something about inotify
[07:54] <mdz> I will, if it comes up :-)
[07:55] <fabbione> oh..you do have a monitor to check, don't you?
[07:55] <pitti> fabbione: I will collect the outstanding issues and write you
[07:56] <fabbione> mdz: your silence is scary.. talk to me
[07:56] <fabbione> pitti: yes asap please
[07:56] <mdz> mdz@andy:~ $ dmesg | grep inotify
[07:56] <mdz> inotify device minor=63
[07:56] <mdz> fabbione: works
[07:56] <fabbione> AHAHAHA
[07:56] <fabbione> YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH
[07:56] <fabbione> AHAHAHAH
[07:56] <pitti> fabbione: congrats! :-)
[07:56] <fabbione> pitti: this is one out of N archs
[07:57] <fabbione> let's take it easy
[07:57] <pitti> but it's a major step
[07:57] <fabbione> atleast i can still have a wage for the next month not crashing mdz pc
[07:57] <pitti> and it's nice to see that _something_ is already working :-)
[07:57] <mdz> fabbione: we don't need to worry about s390 security fixes quite yet :-)
[07:57] <fabbione> and that's a great step :-)
[07:57] <daniels> fabbione: hey man, I tanked his XKB stuff with X.Org in Oxford, and I'm still here
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: it's a 2 line patch and it doesn't touch any code outside s390
[07:57] <fabbione> so i didn't care to merge it.. i just did it
[07:58] <fabbione> daniels: are you sure?
[07:58] <fabbione> daniels: are you sure you are not dreaming to be here?
[07:58] <mdz> fabbione: I think there are CVE references which can be added for several of the security fixes which don't have them yet; pitti should have the info
[07:58] <fabbione> because when the dream is so real and you don't wake up.. how can you distinguish the dream from the reality?
[07:58] <pitti> mdz: I asked Herbert to change the 16.1 changelog
[07:58] <pitti> mdz: I have them, yes
[07:59] <daniels> fabbione: heh
[07:59] <mdz> fabbione: what happened to mlock-as-user?
[07:59] <pitti> getting poetical?
[07:59] <mdz> fabbione: is it included in 2.6.9, or did it conflict?
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: there are a lot of bits that have been merged upstream
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: and i am not completely sure if what is in upstream replaces what we have in 2.6.8.1
[08:00] <fabbione> if only there was a fucking line of documentation from herbert
[08:00] <mdz> fabbione: why ACPI_BLACKLIST_YEAR=0?
[08:00] <fabbione> all the patches are naked
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: because that is the current behaviour
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: so there will be no regression
[08:01] <fabbione> there is not a single line that tells when/where the patch was stolen
[08:01] <mdz> fabbione: ah, ok
[08:01] <daniels> eh
[08:01] <mdz> I thought the default was 2000 or such
[08:01] <daniels> no
[08:01] <daniels> it blacklists everything < 2001
[08:01] <fabbione> mdz: not according to mjg59 
[08:01] <daniels> i had to do acpi=force on my omnibook
[08:01] <daniels> i can tell you for absolute certainty that it blacklisted by year previously
[08:02] <daniels> my omnibook had a great acpi implementation (s3 and all) that just worked out of the box, but i had to do acpi=force, because it was 'too old'
[08:03] <mdz> fabbione: if he says we should use ACPI_BLACKLIST_YEAR=0, I believe him
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: that's why i did ask him this morning :-)
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: was sk98lin-update merged upstream as well?
[08:04] <mdz> oh, that was taken from bk I think
[08:04] <mdz> I was thinking of skge-hotplug
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: sk98 is another one that partially merges
[08:04] <mdz> that has not been submitted upstream I don't think, and perhaps is not exactly what upstream wants
[08:05] <mdz> fabbione: I think that deleting both mlock-as-user and sk98lin-update is correct
[08:05] <fabbione> the 2 that are temporary disabled are the only ones on which i was really in doubt due to lack of references
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: for now the patches as there
[08:05] <fabbione> just disabled
[08:05] <mdz> fabbione: yes, perfect
[08:05] <fabbione> i purged the others
[08:05] <mdz> are any of us able to test ppc64, other than elmo?
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: gimme a ppc64 and i will :-)
[08:06] <mdz> I mean with existing hardware :-P
[08:06] <mdz> fabbione: have you tried to resync the kernel-wedge/udeb stuff yet?
[08:06] <daniels> mdz: davis exists ...
[08:06] <fabbione> mdz: there are plenty of ppc64 around the world.. just move one into my house :-)
[08:07] <mdz> daniels: who or what is davis?
[08:07] <zul> i can test sparc if there is a need
[08:07] <daniels> (just not under my desk at present)
[08:07] <daniels> mdz: g5 xserve port box
[08:07] <mdz> daniels: in the DC?
[08:07] <daniels> mdz: it's there, we own it, it's just in the wrong country
[08:07] <fabbione> daniels: how would you test a kernel on?
[08:07] <daniels> mdz: jah
[08:07] <mdz> daniels: that means elmo would need to test it :-P
[08:07] <daniels> fabbione: step 1: call up tnt, step 2: pay them lots of money, step 3: remember to ship over some wacky xserve -> au power adaptors
[08:07] <fabbione> zul: thanks.. we are very close to get sparc for *
[08:08] <mdz> ooh
[08:08] <mdz> new oo.o on amd64
[08:08] <mdz> without an oo.o-amd64 update
[08:08] <daniels> fabbione: i have another patch for you also
[08:08] <mdz> oo.o-amd64 is obsolete now?
[08:08] <mdz> lifeless: still here?
[08:09] <daniels> fabbione: could you please change linux-source's debian/post-install
[08:09] <lifeless> yah
[08:09] <daniels> fabbione: the asm check needs to install asm-*
[08:10] <fabbione> no daniels
[08:10] <fabbione> that is not part of linux-source
[08:10] <fabbione> that is kernel-package
[08:10] <tseng> thats odd, oo 1.1.3 is even uglier than usual
[08:10] <fabbione> and you want to talk with Manoj about it
[08:10] <fabbione> since he is taking 99% of our patches
[08:11] <tseng> oh, its a plugin
[08:12] <fabbione> brb
[08:37] <Kamion> mdz: any opinion on the slight dilemma at the end of #3007?
[08:45] <mdz> Kamion: reading
[08:46] <mdz> Kamion: getting input from upstream seems wise
[08:46] <Kamion> AFAIK it's a choice between making some installations possible and making drive-switching a bit more difficult
[08:46] <Kamion> yeah
[08:46] <mdz> Kamion: so basically the BIOS boots from drive 0, and then tells you it was booted from drive 1?
[08:47] <Kamion> yep
[08:47] <Kamion> good, isn't it?
[08:48] <Kamion> LILO ignores that information because it already knows what drive it wants to boot from the configuration file; Windows ignores it presumably because it can only boot from C:, or something
[08:48] <mdz> reading about the 'd' option
[08:48] <mdz> what grub does now sounds so much more sane
[08:49] <Kamion> the 'd' option basically ends up being the equivalent of what LILO does, and avoids all such BIOS crapness
[08:51] <mjg59> Kamion: Are you going to the pub tonight?
[08:52] <Kamion> mjg59: where?
[08:52] <mjg59> Carlton
[08:53] <mjg59> (Mobbsy's birthday)
[08:53] <Kamion> hm; was planning to go to the Old Spring with Kirsten's choir lot
[08:53] <Kamion> not sure yet
[09:00] <mjg59> Heh
[09:16] <mdz> lamont?
[09:17] <mdz> jdub: what are gnome-menus and gtk2-engines-smooth?
[09:19] <mdz> lamont, pitti: what was the resolution to the buildd mlock test mystery?
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: I did not hear any update about it
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: I'd like to have the test program executed on the buildds
[09:19] <pitti> lamont: ^
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: it was
[09:19] <pitti> oh?
[09:20] <mdz> zul: pong
[09:20] <mdz> pitti: pasted privately
[09:22] <pitti> mdz: hmm, very odd; heisenbug?
[09:22] <pitti> mdz: maybe this gets fixed automatically with the next update, as automatically as it was introduced... :-/
[09:24] <zul> zul: i noticed in the wiki that there is an error on the conference its says the registration is august 5
[09:26] <zul> shouldnt that be december 5
[09:39] <mdz> zul: I think you meant to say that to me :-)
[09:39] <mdz> zul: what page?
[09:41] <zul> mdz: yeah you are probably right...im not awake :)
[09:41] <zul> just a sec
[09:41] <zul> mdz: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Conference
[09:42] <zul> mdz: even better..http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ConfAgenda
[09:42] <mdz> zul: I don't see the word "registration" at all on the Conference page
[09:43] <sivangAFK> zul : me neither
[09:46] <zul> mdz: on the conference agenda besides Attendees arrive and check in
[09:46] <sivang> mdz : is it in rest? :)
[09:47] <mdz> zul: fixed
[09:48] <jdub> mdz: gnome-menus is the xdg menus implementation, gtk2-engines-smooth is the separate packaging of an engine shipped in gnome-themes
[09:49] <mdz> jdub: gnome-menus isn't in the archive yet
[09:49] <seb128> it has built fine
[09:49] <mxpxpod> mdz: when is it scheduled to be in?
[09:49] <seb128> oh jdub !!!
[09:49] <seb128> jdub: dude, I'm a bit annoyed at this point
[09:50] <mdz> mxpxpod: I didn't even know what it is until 2 minutes ago
[09:51] <jdub> seb128: mmm?
[09:51] <seb128> jdub: the menu changes are heavily based on the vfolders so porting them for gnome-panel will need some serious work. 
[09:51] <jdub> :-)
[09:52] <seb128> jdub: dunno if we should wait to upload the new panel/gnomvfs/gnome-utils/....
[09:52] <seb128> or upload a panel with the standard layout for a moment
[09:52] <seb128> time to get the changes back in
[09:54] <seb128> jdub: have we planned some need changes for hoary in the menu ? ie a place menu ?
[09:54] <seb128> s/need/new/
[09:56] <jdub> seb128: let's do that at mataro :)
[09:56] <stratus> aren't all the packages on main with a changelog modified by anyone at ubuntu ?
[09:57] <Kamion> stratus: only those with *ubuntu* version numbers
[09:57] <stratus> Kamion, i see the diff is what was modified and what wasn't only?
[09:58] <Kamion> stratus: don't understand, sorry
[09:58] <Kamion> stratus: the .diff.gz is against upstream exactly the same way as Debian does
[09:59] <Kamion> stratus: use interdiff or debdiff if you want the diff against Debian
[09:59] <stratus> Kamion, no i was asking about the versioning scheme of ubuntu.
[09:59] <Kamion> so, I still don't understand. :)
[10:00] <stratus> Kamion, the packages that weren't changed (e.g: gaim) aren't with a ubuntuX and the latest changelog entry points to unstable and not hoary?
[10:00] <Kamion> stratus: indeed
[10:00] <Kamion> stratus: we rebuild all binary packages from source, though
[10:00] <stratus> Kamion, hmm i know.
[10:00] <Kamion> stratus: where we've made source modifications, the version numbers have ubuntuX at the end, yes
[10:02] <stratus> Kamion, no problem thanks i was just thinking about it after i see that gaim package wasn't changed.
[10:02] <Kamion> if we can just sync packages from unstable unchanged, we do.
[10:03] <stratus> yes, np for me but isn't it confusing users? I don't think that normal users go to read changelog entries but these entries are being displayed at 'ubuntu update manager'.
[10:03] <Matt|> bold fonts in openoffice still boned
[10:04] <Kamion> stratus: not so far
[10:04] <stratus> Kamion, ok thanks again.
[10:04] <Kamion> stratus: they're still updates in the Ubuntu archive, even if those updates come from Debian
[10:04] <Kamion> stratus: in the same way, Debian updates are still updates in the Debian archive even if most of the work was done by upstream
[10:05] <stratus> Kamion, i forgot that the first line containing 'unstable' and not 'hoary' isn't being displayed.
[10:05] <stratus> it was my point about confusing users.
[10:05] <Kamion> ah, you're talking about apt-listchanges output
[10:05] <stratus> no, no 'ubuntu update manager'
[10:05] <Kamion> yeah, same difference :)
[10:05] <stratus> I'm thinking about normal users and not us.
[10:06] <stratus> yes, it's ok
[10:06] <stratus> my failure
[10:06] <mdz> Kamion: no, you would think that update-manager would use apt-listchanges changelog code, but no :-P
[10:06] <stratus> see you.
[10:07] <stratus> "gaim (1:1.0.3-1) unstable; urgency=low"
[10:07] <jdub> mdz: i believe the intent is to show changes before you download them
[10:07] <Kamion> stratus: yeah, pretty much inevitable
[10:07] <stratus> It's the line that can't be displayed to the users, but it's ok atm
[10:07] <Kamion> stratus: and probably better to leave it there or it would be more misleading
[10:07] <wasabi> Heh. I also thought that we should have a changelog.Users or something instead.
[10:08] <wasabi> That was more user oriented. But I guess that's what NEWS is.
[10:08] <wasabi> changelog tends to list very technical stuff.
[10:08] <stratus> hmm, well
[10:08] <stratus> i need to leave the building now.
[10:08] <stratus> see you
[10:08] <Kamion> wasabi: NEWS.Debian has things people need to see on upgrades.
[10:09] <wasabi> Well, i think you know what I mean. "This patch fixes a remote buffer overflow found by blah in the blah of blah. It is an important install."
[10:10] <wasabi> vs "[blah.c]  applied upstream patch to fix foo bar"
[10:10] <wasabi> And also that these packages shoudl be grouped somehow. Consider how MS and apple do it.
[10:10] <wasabi> They say "Security update for core windows component" or some stuff.
[10:11] <wasabi> And they say it once, even if it upgrades IE, the kernel, and half a dozen system .dll's
[10:11] <wasabi> recent example:
[10:11] <wasabi> perl (5.8.4-2ubuntu0.1) warty-security; urgency=low
[10:11] <wasabi> * added patch 03_safe_tmpfiles.patch:
[10:12] <wasabi>  - lib/Memoize/t/{tie.t,tie_gdbm.t,tie_ndbm.t,tie_sdbm.t,tie_storable.t},
[10:12] <wasabi>       ext/DB_File/t/db-recno.t: create tem
[10:12] <wasabi> ... onward ...
[10:12] <wasabi> my mom would not like seeing that.
[10:13] <wasabi> But something like "This patch fixes a security vulnerbility in a core Ubuntu system component etc etc to prevent local users from comprimising your information." would be a bit more understandable.
[10:14] <mdz> jdub: that's been an intended feature in apt-listchanges for years
[10:14] <mdz> Mithrandir: from what?
[10:15] <mdz> wasabi: that's what NEWS.Debian is for, indeed
[10:15] <jdub> mdz: great for apt-listchanges, not so great for user-centric-update-thingy
[10:15] <mdz> but it's only provided when there is something important to say
[10:15] <wasabi> Well then upgrade-manager should be showing NEWS.Debian
[10:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: from warty.
[10:15] <wasabi> Or we need some other file.
[10:15] <Kamion> mdz: you're still doing the mdz@debian.org thing in changelogs
[10:15] <mdz> jdub: are you kidding? they're both python, apt-listchanges even provides a library for this stuff
[10:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm more concerned about it taking forever to maintain than anything else, really.
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: only in ubuntu-meta; it invokes dch as part of the update process and I always forget
[10:16] <Mithrandir> it's a nice box.. might be the one I'm stuck with in BCN
[10:16] <jdub> mdz: not talking about code, talking about usefulness of showing changelog to users
[10:16] <Kamion> wasabi: actually I'd rather have stable update changelogs written with a paragraph at the top explaining the change in fluffy language
[10:16] <jdub> Kamion: yea
[10:16] <wasabi> I think me and jdub are on the same subject just different angless
[10:16] <Kamion> wasabi: ... than create yet another damn file that has to be maintained
[10:16] <mdz> jdub: oh, you're questioning whether it should display NEWS.Debian at all
[10:16] <wasabi> Yeah, I like that idea.
[10:16] <mdz> yeah, the NEWS.Debian stuff that comes from Debian is highly technical
[10:16] <jdub> mdz: questioning news and changelog.
[10:16] <wasabi> A special area in teh change log that can be parsed out.
[10:16] <mdz> jdub: changelog is right out
[10:17] <wasabi> With a button to show the more advanced change log details
[10:17] <wasabi> you just want to hide that stuff from people by defaul.t
[10:17] <mdz> changelog is for developers
[10:17] <wasabi> it's mind numbingly confusing
[10:18] <wasabi> well, there could be a seperate file, done by the security team................... 
[10:18] <Kamion> well, people *did* ask to dive into the details of the update
[10:18] <wasabi> or not. ;)
[10:18] <mdz> it wouldn't be a bad idea for security updates to add NEWS.Debian entries
[10:18] <mdz> except that most packages don't have one
[10:18] <wasabi> I'm just saying there should be too peices.
[10:18] <mdz> and so that's a bit more change than I'm comfortable with in security updates
[10:18] <wasabi> User centric, and developer centric
[10:18] <mdz> wasabi: we already have that
[10:18] <wasabi> mdz: where?
[10:19] <lupus_> [Invalid UTF-8]  Could not parse file '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop': desktop entry contain line 'Comment[ca] =Fulla de c\xc3| lcul d'OpenOffice.org' which is not UTF-8
[10:19] <mdz> wasabi: NEWS.Debian and changelog.Debian
[10:19] <wasabi> So people actually hew NEWS.Debian for plain-english update text?
[10:19] <wasabi> s/hew/use/
[10:20] <mdz> most don't use it at all
[10:20] <mdz> so, very few
[10:20] <mdz> but look at, e.g. /usr/share/doc/alsa-base/NEWS.Debian.gz
[10:20] <mdz> mind, this is "Linux user centric" as opposed to "computer user centric"
[10:20] <wasabi> Yeah.
[10:21] <wasabi> It's my opinion that the user should NEVER have to know that modules are no longer loaded in /etc/init.d/alsa
[10:21] <Kamion> wasabi: the place for that is the USN
[10:21] <wasabi> That's not a radical idea. ;)
[10:21] <mdz> wasabi: tada! they aren't shown that :-)
[10:21] <Kamion> as regards fluffy descriptions of security updates
[10:22] <Kamion> perhaps the update manager should be able to download those
[10:22] <wasabi> There we go.
[10:22] <mdz> there's already an RSS feed, isn't there?
[10:23] <wasabi> or the USN could be put into debian/
[10:24] <jdub> hooray for updates!
[10:24] <wasabi> I only mention it because upgrade-manager might be run after logoff.
[10:24] <wasabi> Connect, download, log off, install.
[10:24] <wasabi> For those with big bandwidth bills.
[10:24] <wasabi> And metered internet.
[10:26] <Kamion> you can download the USN at the start of the download
[10:26] <mdz> if we were going to do apt-listchanges right, we'd put the changes data in control.tar.gz
[10:26] <Kamion> doing it from the net rather than in the package also allows for better translations
[10:26] <mdz> it would be about 10 times faster and 10 times simpler than the current implementation
[10:26] <wasabi> True. That's not bad then either.
[10:26] <Kamion> security updates usually have to go out quickly, but translations can happen later
[10:26] <wasabi> Can the USN's be put in apt? =/
[10:26] <mdz> wasabi: say what?
[10:26] <wasabi> Or is it a seperate band?
[10:26] <wasabi> like, you have to hook up the USN's with the packages.
[10:26] <Mithrandir> mdz: get keybuk drunk and make him promise that? :)
[10:26] <jdub> seb128: gnome-system-monitor not built yet?
[10:26] <mdz> fabbione: still here?
[10:26] <mdz> fabbione: I can test powerpc and i386 kernels if you're ready
[10:26] <seb128> jdub: I've just uploaded it, some work was needed to port the gksudo patch to the new version
[10:26] <jdub> ok, ta.
[10:26] <magnon> jdub: do you have a minute?
[10:26] <sivang> mdz : seen my comments on the bug? :)
[10:27] <jdub> magnon: yeah
[10:28] <wasabi> i guess it would also be neat if third party apt repositories could issue their own security vuln announcements into this thing.
[10:28] <mdz> sivang: yes, you said that you thought it may have helped but you weren't sure
[10:28] <mdz> that doesn't seem like much information
[10:33] <mako> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ksp-mataro/
[10:33] <mako> i'm about to send out a link to that
[10:33] <mako> now is the chance to make last minute changes/suggestions
[10:34] <mdz> I guess I had better sign keys from Oxford before leaving for Mataro
[10:34] <mako> mdz: that would be ideal :)
[10:38] <sivang> mdz : ok, I'll add some more info now
[10:38] <mako> going once...
[10:38] <fabbione> mdz: 2.6.9-1 ppc is on roockery, i386 is uploading now
[10:38] <mdz> mako: is my key in there?
[10:39] <fabbione> mdz: if you can give them a shot it would be wonderful
[10:39] <fabbione> mdz: and please send me a mail with the results
[10:39] <mako> mdz: nobodys key is in there yet
[10:39] <mako> mdz: not even mine
[10:39] <fabbione> i need to go and finish some stuff
[10:39] <fabbione> cya
[10:39] <mdz> mako: bah, that's the important bit :-)
[10:40] <mako> this is an "opt-in" event
[10:40] <mako> :)
[10:40] <mdz> mako: December 3rd is a Friday
[10:40] <mdz> er
[10:40] <mdz> yeah
[10:40] <mdz> By Saturday December 3, you will be able to fetch both the complete ke
[10:40] <mako> ahh, you are correct
[10:40] <mdz> it's correct earlier up
[10:40] <mako> right, i meant 4th
[10:40] <mako> fixed
[10:41] <mdz> mako: what's the fastest way to turn ksp-wartyconf.asc into something that signkey.pl will accept?
[10:42] <mdz> seems I would need to create a new keyring, import that into it, list-keys, check the list against my paper
[10:42] <mdz> I'd like to collapse the first two steps into something simpler
[10:43] <mako> mdz: i have some scripts
[10:44] <mako> mdz: but what i usually do is set GNUPGHOME=sometmp directory
[10:44] <mdz> why is gnupg such crap
[10:44] <mako> and then i can input the new keyrinCg into a new pubring
[10:44] <sivang> mdz : added the trail
[10:45] <mako> then i go through the paper and edit my ksp-wartyconf.txt file to include only the keys that i will sign (you are checking against the file after alll, not hte paper so you don't need to read the keys against the paper)
[10:46] <jdz_> mako: stylistic point: the whole third bulleted section, in "How the Keysigning Will Happen" is grey text, while the others are black text.
[10:46] <mako> then i use a script to check the fingerprint in the keyring with the fingerprint on the paper
[10:46] <mako> jdz_: yes, that because you can't do that yet :)
[10:46] <mako> jdz_: it will be black when you can :)
[10:47] <mako> mdz: i can send you that script to do the checking
[10:47] <mako> mdz: is's like 15 lines of perl
[10:48] <mako> but then you just do the md5sum, edit the txt file to include the keys you want to sign and you just run something like sign key on the output of the result of the script.. pretty easy
[10:49] <mako> mdz: let me know if you want my script
[10:50] <sivang> mdz : Now I'll set mount to allow regular users to mount cdrom media at least
[10:52] <pitti> night everybody
[10:52] <sivang> night pitti
[11:01] <mdz> mako: sure
[11:01] <mdz> simplification is the only way I'll actually get around to doing it
[11:01] <seb128> jdub: 
[11:01] <seb128> [Invalid UTF-8]  Could not parse file '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop': desktop entry contain line 'Comment[ca] =Fulla de c\xc3| lcul d'OpenOffice.org' which is not UTF-8
[11:01] <seb128> jdub: you will cry on the next upload to fix that warning :p
[11:03] <jdub> ha ha
[11:06] <_rene_> I don't btw see that in our sources. iconv doesn't complain on that file... anyway, if there is a bug we have to fix, diffs welcome ;-)
[11:07] <jdub> elite!
[11:07] <jdub> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
[11:07] <jdub>   bazaar
[11:07] <jdub> Install these packages without verification? [y/N]  y
[11:07] <jdub> 
[11:07] <mdz> fabbione: Linux potpal 2.6.9-1-686 #1 Tue Nov 30 20:30:09 CET 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[11:07] <jdub> although we should fix the bazaar archive :)
[11:07] <mdz> nah
[11:07] <mdz> we should upload baz to hoary
[11:07] <mdz> I'll work on that shortly
[11:07] <jdub> true, true
[11:07] <jdub> rock!
[11:08] <mdz> lifeless: is it intentional that the bazaar tarball has {arch} directories in it?
[11:08] <jdub> yes
[11:08] <mako> mdz: sent
[11:08] <jdub> it's just a tarball of arch, basically
[11:08] <jdub> (ppffftt)
[11:09] <mdz> that is so uncool
[11:09] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp/bazaar]  find . -name ++pristine-trees | xargs du -sch
[11:09] <mdz> 1.5M    ./src/docs-hackerlab/{arch}/++pristine-trees
[11:09] <mdz> 2.5M    ./src/docs-baz/{arch}/++pristine-trees
[11:09] <mdz> 280K    ./debian/{arch}/++pristine-trees
[11:09] <mdz> 4.2M    total
[11:10] <mdz> (from the dist tarball)
[11:10] <mdz> I don't think it's intentional
[11:11] <jdub> it's not purposeful, but it's not avoided :)
[11:11] <mako> pristines, no good
[11:12] <Mithrandir> mako: I asked about getting CDs for a party in February, I guess the right way is just to order them using shipit?
[11:13] <Nafallo> I got an ubuntu amd64 with a sarge i386 chroot. how to compile a kernel for i386 inside the chroot?
[11:13] <jdub> mdz: i'd really like to migrate to sudo-by-wheel-equivalent-group for hoary.
[11:14] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: make ARCH=i386 menuconfig all ?
[11:14] <mdz> lamont_r: mlocktest?
[11:14] <lamont_r> mdz: still trying to figure out why it works sometimes and not others
[11:14] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: thanks :-)
[11:14] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: that ought to work
[11:15] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: it did :-)
[11:17] <lamont_r> daniels?
[11:17] <mako> Mithrandir: if you have already ordered cds, you need to also talk to me
[11:17] <Mithrandir> mako: I have gotten a first shipment, but I want a second one with more.
[11:17] <Mithrandir> mako: I have not ordered a second one, I think.
[11:17] <lamont_r> mako: btw, if I wanted to come home with like 5 each of ppc and amd64, is that trivial, or painful?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> (or I might have, but that's just 20 or so I ordered in the second run)
[11:17] <mako> Mithrandir: ok, so go in and update teh number you want and then send me an email saying to special case you
[11:18] <Mithrandir> mako: willdo
[11:18] <mako> lamont_r: from the conference?
[11:18] <lamont_r> yeah
[11:18] <lamont_r> or even in the second run
[11:18] <mako> lamont_r: shouldn't be a problem as you'll be there before anyone else :)
[11:18] <lamont_r> heh
[11:18] <lamont_r> mako: just hide 5 each in your bag for me. :)
[11:19] <mako> lamont_r: we'll we're shipping like 500 to hotel this week i think
[11:19] <mako> lamont_r: but i'll bring/hide some backups for myself as well
[11:19] <mako> with the LUG trip and the open day i suspect that it might not be enough
[11:20] <lamont_r> mako: I see.  thanks
[11:20] <mako> i have yet to leave an event with any CDs
[11:20] <lamont_r> hrm.. wonder why the house dropped of the network.
[11:20] <lamont_r> mlocktest. hrm.
[11:25] <stockholm> hi
[11:44] <seb128> jdub: an other solution that could work, if we want to keep the current layout, would be to add back the vfolder to the current gnomevfs package ...
[11:44] <seb128> jdub: so we can go ahead and perhaps made it working with the vfolders for computer
[11:44] <jdub> nah
[11:44] <seb128> that's ugly and not in the right direction 
[11:44] <jdub> yeah
[11:44] <jdub> would prefer to test the changes
[11:44] <lamont_r> mdz: I'm having problems reproducing either the gpg error, or mlocktest failures
[11:44] <seb128> but we switch back to the standard applications/action layout for some time so. Perhaps we should mail ubuntu-devel before going with that ?
[11:44] <lamont_r> given that we know we have a working mlock, we should just use it. (that is, ripping out the code - or #if 0'ing it - doesn't seem like much of a hack to me.
[11:45] <jdub> seb128: yeah :)
[11:46] <mdz> lamont_r: do you believe that if we rebuild gnupg, it would pass the test and resolve the issue?
[11:47] <mdz> mako: can you make sure that the printing process is utf-8 aware this time around? :-)
[11:48] <elmo> we should record the 'uname -a' output as part of the build
[11:48] <lamont_r> mdz: I'll verify that, but I can't reproduce the issue.
[11:48] <lamont_r> was it just i386 where we were seeing that?
[11:49] <mdz> lamont_r: you could reproduce it yesterday
[11:49] <mdz> yes, only i386
[11:49] <lamont_r> mdz: no - I thought I could.
[11:50] <lamont_r> pb was in chrooting into the chroot and the fact that the test didn't print anything
[11:50] <lamont_r> checking exit codes is not always the best way to see an error... :-(
[11:50] <mdz> lamont_r: somehow, gnupg on i386 got built in such a way that the code used if that test fails was activated
[11:50] <lamont_r> anyway, I'll verify that building it anew fixes the issue on all three architectures and then deal with it.
[11:50] <mdz> lamont_r: pleasae do
[11:50] <mdz> thanks
[11:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: really? (XP using UTC for the hardware clock)
[11:55] <Mithrandir> mdz: according to some people who have checked it, yes.
[11:55] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't verified it myself, but I could do that, sure.
[11:55] <mdz> that should silence an entire segment of complaints, if true
[11:56] <Mithrandir> give me two minutes to boot the live cd on my XP box.
[11:56] <jdub> Mithrandir: reboot and look at the bios :)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> well, that works as well