[12:38] <sivang> enrico : I'm here
[12:40] <enrico> Ok.  Please paste the question here :)
 what is the structure, and what files I need to put into an upstream source tree to make it debable
[12:40] <sivang> or "how to learn debian packaging in 21 hours"
[12:40] <sivang> :)
[12:41] <enrico> you need 3 main files, all in the directory debian/ in the source tree
[12:41] <enrico> One is debian/control: it contains package metadata such as package name, description, dependencies
[12:41] <enrico> One is debian/changelog: it contains the version history and the latest version of the package
[12:42] <enrico> One is debian/rules ( :) ) and it is a makefile that contains commands that build the package
[12:42] <enrico> If you see people with a t-shirt saying "debian/rules" it's the name of this control file, as well as saying "Debian Rules!"
[12:43] <enrico> So, you can take any package (take for example my guessnet package) and see what's in debian/*  You'll always find at least these files
[12:43] <enrico> Then you can have various other accessory files
[12:44] <enrico> debian/rules often makes use of debhelper, which is a suite of scripts that make creating packages easy, by automating most operations
[12:44] <enrico> Other (optional) files that can be there are scripts like preinst and postinst, that are executed by dpkg at various stages of the package installation/deinstallation/upgrade...
[12:45] <enrico> I suggest you take guessnet as an example and build from there
[12:45] <enrico> It's fine to just copy a debian/* directory over and replace the package name :)
[12:46] <enrico> guessnet's packaging however exploits the fact that upstream is very cool and uses automake/autoconf :)
[12:47] <sivang> hehe
[12:47] <sivang> I know why :)
[12:48] <enrico> it's not that hard to only use makefile, though
[12:48] <enrico> /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples lists some examples and one of those only uses makefiles
[12:48] <enrico> There are links to documentations for cdbs.  I'll tell you them now:
[12:49] <enrico> See debian bug 220756 for some links to cdbs documentation
[01:05] <enrico> laptop crashed
[01:05] <enrico> again and again
[01:05] <enrico> sivang: still there?
[01:32] <sivang> enrico : yes, headed to bed , just grabbed something to drink
[01:32] <enrico> Heading to bed too
[01:32] <enrico> See you tomorrow, then, continuing the debian packaging crash course
[01:33] <sivang> yes, it was great, crash courses are nice :)
[11:08] <sivang> hi all
[11:18] <lulu> sivang: hiya :o)
[11:19] <sivang> hey there lulu ;-)
[11:41] <sivang> hi plovs
[11:41] <plovs> hi!
[11:41] <plovs> how's the laptop
[11:42] <sivang> hmm, bit better :) I will try make even some more fine tuning today
[11:43] <sivang> thanks, and what about yours? is he all well? (talking about them like children:)
[11:45] <plovs> the one for spain i haven't seen yet, osx is getting better, but it is not linux :-(
[11:45] <plovs> \
[11:49] <sivang> plovs : didn't you tell me yesterday you have one for spain?
[11:49] <plovs> yes, i have one, just not at home atm
[11:50] <sivang> ah
[11:52] <plovs> how is your writing getting along?  i haven't done much, just made an outline, too much work atm
[11:56] <sivang> plovs : slow but steady...:)
[11:56] <sivang> plovs : you meant on your part of the book?
[11:57] <plovs> yes, well on everything atm, i hope to do something wednesday and in the weekend
[12:28] <enrico> sivang: Hello,tell me something when you come back
[12:45] <ChrisH> Hey, gals... ;)
[12:46] <sivang> hi enrico
[12:47] <enrico> Hi
[12:47] <enrico> ChrisH: hei!
[12:47] <sivang> hi !
[12:48] <enrico> sivang: feel like resuming the packaging business?
[12:48] <sivang> enrico : ah yes
[12:48] <sivang> enrico : let me see if I can update the from svn again, I was unable last night
[12:49] <ChrisH> Once week to go... :)
[12:49] <ChrisH> s/Once/One/
[12:49] <enrico> Yup!
[12:50] <ChrisH> Does anyone know yet how far the hotel is from the Mataro train station?
[12:51] <enrico> I don't know
[12:51] <enrico> I'll need some instructions in that sense, actually
[12:51] <enrico> But I can try to dig that information later
[12:51] <ChrisH> lulu didn't know either
[12:52] <sivang> ChrisH : me neither, but silbs has noted to me that once first people get there, it would be more clear :)
[12:52] <sivang> we have the advantage of coming after the conf starts :)
[12:53] <sivang> I tried to understand things from the map that was linked from the wiki - no go :)
[12:53] <ChrisH> sivang: Cool, you are doing the "Welcome to Python" workshop? Great. Then I can finally ask the tricky questions.
[12:53] <sivang> it's all spanish and cluttered
[12:53] <enrico> Linked from which page of the wiki?
[12:53] <sivang> ChrisH : hmm, that's interesting, where did you see it?
[12:54] <ChrisH> sivang: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ConfAgenda
[12:54] <ChrisH> sivang: Friday,  17:30 - 19:00
[12:54] <ChrisH> 
[12:54] <ChrisH> Welcome to Python
[12:54] <ChrisH> 
[12:54] <ChrisH> SivanGreen
[12:54] <ChrisH> 
[12:54] <ChrisH> Salon Mataro/Iluro 
[12:54] <sivang> enrico : here : http://www.renfe.es/cercanias/barcelona/img/zonal_barcelona_grande.gif
[12:55] <ChrisH> Looks like there are less interesting meetings than I thought during my stay. Well... it's a draft. ;)
[12:56] <sivang> hmm, I might ask some of the more python expers to help me :) and still this is the draft for the agenda,  I didn't realie me suggesting a BOF makes me responsible for it :)
[12:56] <enrico> sivang: that map tells you which cercanias line to get (which is line 1, dircetion Maanet)
[12:56] <sivang> enrico : Macanet?
[12:56] <enrico> BTW, line 1 is nice as it goes all along the coastline and you can stare at the mediterranean
[12:56] <enrico> sivang: that's the end destination of the line, but you get out at Matar
[12:56] <ChrisH> enrico: Cool, I'll have my Ixus ready. :)
[12:56] <enrico> Now we need a map of matar, with a cross on the hotel
[12:57] <ChrisH> enrico: Indeed.
[12:57] <sivang> enrico : is it a bus ride?
[12:57] <enrico> sivang: no, train ride
[12:57] <sivang> enrico : I understood there is going to be a train
[12:57] <ChrisH> enrico: I don't like to take a taxi to the hotel with the baby on my lap. The taxi drivers must have learned to drive during the Vietnam war.
[12:57] <enrico> Cool thing is that line 1 also goes to the airport, so it's a single train ride, with no changes
[12:57] <enrico> Oh, if you take a taxi, always ask for the receipt
[12:58] <enrico> And if you feel like they asked too much, the receipt should have informations about the driver or taxi number on it
[12:58] <sivang> enrico : ok, please explain again: I arrive at the barcelona airport and from there take a train straight to mataro?
[12:58] <enrico> It happened that the taxi driver asked for some amount, then you asked for the receipt and they said "OH!  I made an error..."
[12:58] <ChrisH> sivang: That part is easy. Take the blue line to mataro. Done.
[12:58] <enrico> sivang: yes: cercanias line 1
[12:58] <ChrisH> sivang: This information has already been there.
[12:59] <ChrisH> sivang: But there is no information about the area around the hotel.
[12:59] <sivang> enrico : hmmm, where do I find the train station on the airport?
[01:00] <enrico> sivang: I bet it's well marked, but I'm sure you can ask to any airport information desk and they'll all speak english
[01:01] <sivang> enrico : do you think the train is far from the airport?
[01:01] <ChrisH> sivang: No.
[01:01] <enrico> the train station should be in the airport
[01:01] <ChrisH> sivang: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Conference/ => Flying In
[01:03] <sivang> ok, it is more clear now
[01:03] <sivang> thanks ChrisH for pointing it
[01:03] <ChrisH> sivang: yw
[01:11] <lulu> ChrisH: and the Mataro train station is an easy 10 min walk from the hotel apparently. But, they have taxis for about 4 euros or so, apparently.
[01:11] <enrico> lulu: hi!
[01:11] <ChrisH> lulu: Very good. I don't mind the costs. I just fear for my life and that of my son.
[01:12] <enrico> lulu: is there a map of matar with the location of the hotel (or the hotel website)
[01:13] <lulu> ChrisH: the hotel website is on the wiki - Hotel NH Ciutat de Matar, located near the city center. 
[01:13] <enrico> lulu: ok.  Later on I can pull all the information and try to post some map
[01:13] <lulu> ChrisH: a link anyway.
[01:15] <lulu> ChrisH: mmm - I googled for others - with more info on the hotel. - I'll replace the link with another.
[01:15] <ChrisH> lulu: did you find anything useful on the hotel web site? :)
[01:16] <lulu> ChrisH: ^.....I'll see what I can find.....
[01:16] <sivang> ChrisH : you make it sound like spain is a dangerous place :) please say it's not..
[01:17] <ChrisH> sivang: It's not. But my boss told me that the taxi drivers are mad in spain.
[01:17] <ChrisH> sivang: They don't have baby seats or belts on the back seats.
[01:17] <ChrisH> sivang: And they drive like hell.
[01:17] <ChrisH> sivang: So if - as lulu said - it's just a 10 minute walk, I'm more than happy.
[01:18] <sivang> ChrisH : You mean to walk it ? (sounds reasonanbe to me also)
[01:18] <ChrisH> sivang: Yup. We have a mini-buggy for Marco, a suitcase on rollers and a backpack.
[01:19] <sivang> sweat!
[01:19] <ChrisH> sivang: I don't sweat! :)
[01:19] <ChrisH> sivang: That reminds me... I need to get the mentoring docs ready.
[01:20] <sivang> ChrisH : mentoring docs? nice..anything specific in mind?
[01:20] <ChrisH> lulu: btw... what about it? The mentoring ideas.
[01:20] <ChrisH> sivang: Mark had a few thoughts. And I also have. Just need to write a document and draw a sketch or two.
[01:21] <sivang> ChrisH : did you get how a BOF is supposed to be managed?
[01:21] <ChrisH> sivang: It's how we make the project easier for contributers.
[01:21] <ChrisH> sivang: In real life? :)
[01:21] <sivang> like yes
[01:22] <ChrisH> sivang: Well... I assume we will just gather and talk about the topic. Nothing serious. No real speech. Perhaps an introduction so everybody knows what they will talk about.
[01:23] <sivang> ChrisH : ok, this sounds nice, I am just trying to figure if I am able to do a "W2P BOF" ..:)
[01:25] <ChrisH> sivang: Windows-to-Perl?
[01:25] <sivang> hahah
[01:25] <sivang> ChrisH : Welcome 2 Pytohn
[01:26] <sivang> hmm,. the hotel website gives much info
[01:26] <sivang> :)
[01:26] <ChrisH> sivang: I've just started with Python. May be useful to have someone there who is using Python more than for just a day.
[01:27] <sivang> ChrisH : yes, I will talk to keybuk about  it
[01:27] <ChrisH> lulu: Besides the NM workshop that I don't see. You "promised" the Soyus will be introduced. As I'm not there in the second week... is there a chance this is done twice? I know I'm asking for much.
[01:27] <ChrisH> sivang: The style is very different from Perl and although I got a few lines running I'm often laughed about in #python. ;)
[01:29] <lulu> ChrisH: I can't promise there will be a second BOF but the Soyuz team will be working there for 2 weeks so you will be able to speak to them directly. Kiko, Daniel, Celso and Guilherme....but there will be talk about it.
[01:30] <ChrisH> lulu: k
[01:33] <sivang> ChrisH : what's Soyus?
[01:33] <sivang> http://www.bookings.org/hotel/es/nhciutatdemataro.html?checkin=;checkout=
[01:33] <sivang> there's a map
[01:34] <sivang> http://www.bookings.org/hotel/es/nhciutatdemataro.html?checkin=;checkout=#Hotel%20Photos
[01:36] <ChrisH> sivang: Niiice. :) Just my styile.
[01:36] <ChrisH> sivang: However I wonder where on the map is the train station.
[01:37] <sivang> yes
[01:37] <ChrisH> sivang: soyus is (from what I know from lulu) a python framework that will handle the package repository in ubuntu
[01:37] <sivang> what I was actually trying to figure
[01:37] <sivang> wowowo
[01:37] <sivang> we must have them give a talk on the first week also
[01:37] <sivang> :)
[01:39] <ChrisH> I second that. Pretty important IMHO and I really can't stay for two weeks. During such a long conf I'd expect to have such important issues being displayed more than once.
[01:39] <ChrisH> From looking through the attendees list I see that hardly anyone attends more than for a few days.
[01:40] <lulu> guys - we will see what we can do ok! :o)
[01:40] <ChrisH> lulu: Hey, no offense intended!
[01:42] <sivang> ChrisH : you see her very nice clownish smiley?
[01:42] <sivang> (using the 'o' as a nose)
[01:42] <lulu> ChrisH: none taken :o) I think we can fit in an intro in one of the group sessions in the first week...
[01:42] <sivang> lulu : we are all thirsty to know more and more about ubuntnu, that's the reason of the demands :)
[01:44] <ChrisH> lulu: At least I didn't ask to hold the soyus workshop it in my hotel room so I wouldn't need to get up. ;)
[01:44] <sivang> hhahaha
[01:44] <lulu> sivang: I know and it's great :o) but I do know that information will be released at exactly the right time  ;) 
[01:44] <ChrisH> Although...
[01:44] <sivang> is there anything publically available already about Soyus?
[01:49] <enrico> sivang: if they told you before, they'd have to kill you :)
[01:49] <sivang> ahmm, I guess so :)
[01:50] <enrico> so, how many of the docteam-related BOFs
[01:50] <sivang> I've seen 2
[01:50] <sivang> one by Mako,
[01:50] <sivang> and the other by jdub on hoary documentation goals
[01:50] <enrico> how many of them before the 9th ?
[01:51] <sivang> lemm echeck
[01:52] <sivang> oh no the conf page is in rest :)
[01:52] <sivang> I wanted to add the new photo links and map of the hotel 
[01:54] <sivang> Map_ of Barcelona Light Rail.
[01:54] <sivang> System Message: WARNING/2 (<string>, line 136); backlink
[01:54] <sivang> Duplicate explicit target name: "map".
[02:00] <enrico> sid77: hi!
[02:05] <sid77> a question: which are the guidelines for translating stuff? I mean: some times ago I asked for a "style" problem translating the faq, and I was answered to follow the original style found in the wiki. I've seen that now the Italian Translation page is deeply restructured, is it all ok?
[02:08] <enrico> sid77: I'd imagine that every translation team has its own guidelines.  However, I (together with lulu and daf) just yesterday posted a message to try to clarify the relationships between the docteam and the translation team, so we may get more clues soon
[02:10] <sid77> ok
[02:14] <enrico> sid77: in the meantime, you can ask to the other members of the italian team
[02:16] <sivang> enrico : could you give me again the command to make procmail reprocess my mail into folders?
[02:16] <enrico> formail -s procmail < mailbox
[02:17] <sivang> enrico : ah thank you!
[03:12] <sivang> btw, can I still use the hornbeck repo?
[03:12] <sivang> to add content to UB ?
[03:12] <sivang> (ubuntu book)
[03:13] <enrico> I'd think so
[03:13] <sivang> ok
[03:14] <enrico> About packaging the FAQs, I told Sivan that he can find a simple package in http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/openoffice.org-thesaurus-it_0+20041114.orig.tar.gz
[03:15] <enrico> (that's going to reach unstable after ftpmaster's approval: it'll take like 2 weeks if everything goes well
[03:15] <enrico> sid77: btw, that's the Italian Thesaurus for OpenOffice!!
[03:15] <enrico> sid77: and with a supercool history behind it!
[03:16] <sid77> what?
[03:16] <sivang> ok I have the pkg
[03:16] <sivang> enrico?
[03:17] <sid77> oh, k. read. lol 
[03:18] <enrico> sivang: yes
[03:19] <sivang> ok, I'm ready with the package
[03:19] <enrico> sid77: it's been made by a 3rd grade liceo scientifico high school and their italian teacher
[03:19] <enrico> sid77: then, other schools and volunteers joined
[03:19] <sid77> yeah
[03:20] <enrico> sid77: I asked them to work with the class and the english teacher to write some history of what happened, and to hype themselves a bit, and then include it in the package
[03:20] <enrico> sivang: have a look at the debian/ directory: it should be minimal
[03:21] <sid77> ahahahha
[03:21] <enrico> sivang: if you forget about unpacking the zipfiles, you can see how to install files where you want
[03:21] <enrico> sivang: of course the FAQs also have a makefile
[03:22] <enrico> sivang: you also see an example of a simple debian/control, and a postinst file in which you can add commands in case you need to invoke scrollkeeper after the installation
[03:22] <enrico> sivang: do you have enough to start making a debian/directory now?
[03:22] <enrico> then we can work from that
[03:23] <sivang> enrico : I think so, lemme look
[03:24] <sivang>  tar xvf openoffice.org-thesaurus-it_0+20041114.orig.tar.gz
[03:24] <sivang> tar: This does not look like a tar archive
[03:24] <sivang> tar: Skipping to next header
[03:24] <sivang> tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers
[03:24] <sivang> tar: Read 811 bytes from openoffice.org-thesaurus-it_0+20041114.orig.tar.gz
[03:24] <sivang> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
[03:25] <enrico> sivang: tar zxvf...
[03:25] <enrico> You forgot the 'z'
[03:25] <enrico> :)
[03:25] <sivang> shit
[03:25] <sivang> :)
[03:26] <enrico> People... anyone minds if I convert DocumentationTeamCurrentWork to MoinMoin?
[03:26] <enrico> It's reSt
[03:26] <sivang> go ahead!
[03:26] <sivang> :)
[03:26] <sivang> I got pinched by rest another time today,
[03:26] <sivang> :)
[03:26] <sivang> when trying to add a SIMPLE link for the hotel pictures and map
[03:27] <sivang> why can't it "just work?" :)
[03:27] <sivang> enrico : looking at the debian folder, it looks good
[03:28] <sivang> I see I should probably use postinst to call scrollkeeper-update
[03:29] <enrico> bleh... Moin tables aren't that nice to edit either
[03:29] <sivang> well they are not,
[03:30] <sivang> but a simple link should not require to lean another lang right
[03:30] <sivang> ?
[03:31] <sivang> I tried so silently to immitate the already resisding link there, and walked slowly away from the interpreter so it won't notice me , and then " BEEEEEEEP!!! YOU'RE BUSTED, WRONG MARKUP DUDE"
[03:31] <sivang> :0
[03:31] <sivang> :)
[03:33] <enrico> I left it in reSt, as in that specific case it's easier to update than MoinMoin
[03:38] <enrico> sivang: how are you doing?
[03:39] <sivang> enrico : I have the dir, having trobule syncing the versino from hornbeck's repo, lemme try again.
[03:42] <enrico> sivang: I did an svn update here and it works
[03:42] <enrico> what trouble did  you have?
[03:43] <sivang> working now
[03:43] <sivang> :)
[03:45] <sivang> it's updated
[03:45] <sivang> I'll new create /debian under the source trre of the faq,
[03:45] <sivang> this is the right way right?
[03:46] <enrico> yes
[03:46] <sivang> (and copy the skeleton files into there)
[03:46] <sivang> done
[03:47] <sivang> oh and this is now the new "book" not just plain faq anymore, if I recall right,
[03:47] <sivang> ChrisH ?
[03:49] <sivang> enrico : first let us start with debian/rules :)
[03:49] <enrico> sivang: no: first is debian/control
[03:49] <sivang> yes
[03:49] <sivang> sorry
[03:49] <sivang> ok, control
[03:49] <enrico> sivang: there you decide the package name, if it's arch-indep or arch-dependent, and which are your build-dependencies
[03:49] <sivang> ok I want to call the pkg ubuntu_handbook
[03:49] <enrico> that is, first state what you're about to do, then do it :)
[03:50] <enrico> no underscores
[03:50] <enrico> ubuntu-handbook is better
[03:50] <sivang> why no underscores?
[03:50] <sivang> ubuntu convention?
[03:50] <enrico> underscore separate the package name from the version in the .deb file name
[03:51] <enrico> after debian/control, create the initial debian/changelog, so that you have a communication channel with your users and a place ot annonate what you do
[03:52] <sivang> ok, fields in /control:
[03:52] <sivang> Source:
[03:52] <sivang> ubuntu-handbook?
[03:53] <sivang> why is the meaning of a source/bin pkg when dealing with docs? 
[03:53] <enrico> Because you always have a source package that creates a binary package.  In this case the terms source and binary are a bit abused; however, you have a source package that generates the packages that get installed
[03:54] <enrico> the source packages is what you download with "apt-get source".  The "binary" packages is what you download with apt-get install
[03:54] <enrico> For example, in the source package you don't have the generated .pdf and .html files
[03:55] <enrico> You generate them when you build the package and then you include them in the 'binary' package
[03:56] <ChrisH> sivang: You want to create a package from the book? Yes, then it's /debian. But why would anyone need a package from source files for a book?
[03:57] <enrico> ChrisH: the intention is to package the book itself
[03:57] <ChrisH> enrico: Uh huh. For yelp/scrollkeeper I assume.
[03:58] <sivang> ChrisH : when creating a package for such documentation, the package holds the source and calls make on it, after it will register it with scrollkeepr and it would be brwoseable from yelp.
[03:58] <ChrisH> sivang: k. Now I get it.
[03:59] <sivang> enrico : I have edited my control, would you like to take a look at it?
[03:59] <enrico> sivang: sure: did you commit it?
[04:00] <sivang> enrico : commit? I just edited the file
[04:00] <enrico> sivang: if you want me to see it, commit it :)
[04:00] <enrico> the I can fix it and commit it again
[04:00] <enrico> else, what are we using this subversion server for?
[04:02] <sivang> ok I'll commit now
[04:02] <sivang> I just realized
[04:02] <sivang> I did svn commit and got this:
[04:03] <sivang> --This line, and those below, will be ignored--
[04:03] <sivang> M    parts/about/main.xml
[04:03] <sivang> M    parts/about/chap-ubuntu.xml
[04:03] <sivang> what does it want from me?
[04:03] <enrico> You probably modified them
[04:03] <sivang> I did
[04:03] <enrico> If you don't remember doint it, you can abort the commit, checkout a fresh version, and work on that one
[04:03] <enrico> The diff those 2 files and see the modifications
[04:04] <enrico> If instead you modified those files, it wants to commit them
[04:04] <enrico> If you only want to commit debian/*, do svn commit debian
[04:04] <sivang> I want to commit it,
[04:04] <sivang> I just wq from vi?
[04:05] <sivang> it new part I added to the book
[04:05] <sivang> under about ofcourse
[04:05] <enrico> :q! from vi, then svn will notice it's unchanged and prompt you to abort
[04:06] <sivang> Authentication realm: <http://69.155.172.150:80> Documentation Team Repository
[04:06] <sivang> Password for 'pooh':
[04:07] <enrico> sivang: I imagine you have a password for the repo?
[04:07] <sivang> yes, but not under the user of pooh
[04:07] <enrico> so try using --username
[04:07] <sivang> I should have done something to tell svn sivang is the username?
[04:08] <enrico> svn help commit
[04:08] <sivang> k
[04:12] <sivang> errgh
[04:12] <sivang> my password doesn not let me in
[04:13] <sivang> commited
[04:13] <sivang> finally
[04:14] <enrico> sivang: do an svn status
[04:14] <enrico> I see your modifications in those 2 files, but not the new debian/* files
[04:14] <enrico> you probably forgot to do svn add on the new files
[04:14] <enrico> svn status shows you what's the status of the various files in your local copy
[04:18] <sivang> ok
[04:19] <enrico> sivang: did you manage to commit the debian/ directory?
[04:20] <sivang>  svn status
[04:20] <sivang> ?      debian
[04:20] <sivang> ?      parts/about/chap-background.xml
[04:21] <enrico> the ? means that svn doesn't know anything about them
[04:21] <enrico> if you want them in the repository, you need to svn add them
[04:21] <enrico> svn add debian parts/about/chap-background.xml
[04:21] <enrico> then you'll see them with 'A' instead of '?'
[04:21] <enrico> and you can commit their addition
[04:22] <enrico> .
[04:24] <sivang> recommited
[04:24] <sivang> check now
[04:25] <enrico> got it!
[04:26] <sivang> great
[04:26] <sivang> do you get the chap-ubuntu changes?
[04:26] <sivang> (ubuntu background)
[04:28] <enrico> sivang: yes, also chap-ubunut
[04:28] <enrico> about control: "Maintainer:" should be you
[04:29] <enrico> I'll fix it and commit it
[04:29] <sivang> k, thanks
[04:29] <sivang> :)
[04:29] <sivang> it's fun working that way
[04:29] <enrico> then you can do svn diff and see what changed
[04:30] <sivang> yes
[04:32] <enrico> you can fix the copyright file, before we forget about it :)
[04:33] <sivang> right
[04:33] <sivang> how do I svn diff?
[04:33] <enrico> In the description, you say that it can be converted, implying that the package only distributes the docbook sources
[04:33] <enrico> sivang: svn help diff
[04:33] <enrico> But the makefile actually builds the HTML version of it
[04:34] <enrico> We can make a multi-binary package, that is a source package that generates various binary packages: one with the docbook sources for yelp, one with the PDF and the HTML
[04:35] <enrico> Or we can package everything in a single package
[04:35] <enrico> I suggest we package everything in a single package, then split it if needed
[04:35] <sivang> enrico : ok
[04:35] <sivang> enrico : agreed
[04:37] <enrico> sivang: committed
[04:40] <sivang> enrico : ${shlibs:Depends}, <==?
[04:40] <enrico> Well, we don't need it, so you can delete it.  It would be replaced by library dependencies by a debhelper script that calls 'ldd' on every binary you generate and checks which libraries they depend on
[04:41] <sivang> what does it mean?
[04:43] <enrico> sivang: try this.  Do a ldd `which ls`, you'll see which shared libraries 'ls' depends on.  If you call dpkg -S on the full path of all of these libraries, then you get a list of debian package names
[04:43] <enrico> This is an automated way of knowing which debian library packages are used by ls, and so they should be on 'ls' dependency list
[04:43] <sivang> wow nice!
[04:44] <enrico> Since we don't have any binary executable file, we don't need that.
[04:44] <sivang> I bet somekind of debhelper does it automagically
[04:44] <enrico> dh_shlibdeps
[04:44] <sivang> right :)
[04:44] <sivang>          librt.so.1 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/librt.so.1 (0x40027000)
[04:44] <sivang>         libacl.so.1 => /lib/libacl.so.1 (0x4002e000)
[04:44] <sivang>         libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0x40035000)
[04:44] <sivang>         libpthread.so.0 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0 (0x40170000)
[04:44] <sivang>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
[04:44] <sivang>         libattr.so.1 => /lib/libattr.so.1 (0x40180000)
[04:44] <sivang> coooooooool!
[04:45] <sivang> commited
[04:57] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) ubuntulog probably scared it
[04:58] (sivang/#ubuntu-doc) heheh
[04:58] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) warthylog: hello.  have you met ubuntulog?  Maybe you can become friends
[04:58] (sivang/#ubuntu-doc) haha
[04:58] (sivang/#ubuntu-doc) they can mate and then have decsendents :)
[05:00] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) sivang: committed the new changelog.  If you want to edit it, you can use the 'dch' script: very very handy
[05:00] (sivang/#ubuntu-doc) commited copyright
[05:00] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) also, I don't know if the distribution (on the 1st line of the changelog) shuold be changed for ubuntu.  I think so, but I should ask how
[05:00] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) It doesn't matter for now
[05:01] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) sivang: the copyright file is perfect!
[05:01] (sivang/#ubuntu-doc) it is?
[05:01] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) it is
[05:01] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) now, debian/rules.
[05:02] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) you have to add "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
[05:02] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) after the include for debhelper
[05:02] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) You can remove 'tarball' and its stuff, like the DEB_TAR_SRCDIR and THES_BASE lines
[05:03] (enrico/#ubuntu-doc) And the UNZIP=-n and export UNZIP lines
[05:05] <enrico> then, you can test building the package with "fakeroot debian/rules build"
[05:05] <enrico> That should perform all steps until invoking the makefile and letting it build
[05:06] <enrico> You can actually checkout also http://69.155.172.150/docutils and see the packaging there
[05:07] <sivang> I still have to understand how to register it in the scrollkeeper, the docs are bit blurry
[05:07] <sivang> (for scrollkeeper)
[05:07] <enrico> It was 2 hours that I was thinking "but I just did the same work a few days ago..." :)
[05:07] <sivang> and also I want to make a new front page for the first yelp invocation
[05:07] <sivang> what?
[05:07] <enrico> One thing at a time: first get a debian package to build, then let it do what you want :)
[05:07] <sivang> ok :)
[05:07] <enrico> sivan: You can actually checkout also http://69.155.172.150/docutils and see the packaging there
[05:08] <sivang> I noticed that :)
[05:10] <sivang> checking out docutils
[05:10] <sivang> takes long,strange
[05:13] <plovs> hi guys
[05:18] <sivang> enrico : error in docutils, look at the control file . in the description section
[05:21] <enrico> Oh :)  Polygen
[05:22] <enrico> Or Proxysperm, Polpybel, Polsybel, Polpiflex
[05:22] <enrico> (polygen is able to generate its name randomly)
[05:23] <enrico> fixing it
[05:24] <enrico> committed
[05:25] <enrico> sivang: how are you doing with debian/rules?  Does it compile?
[05:26] <sivang> enrico : finishing to modify it
[05:26] <sivang> DEB_TAR_SRCDIR=.
[05:26] <sivang> THES_BASE=build-tree/
[05:26] <sivang> this is required?
[05:26] <enrico> sivang: 17:00 < enrico> You can remove 'tarball' and its stuff, like the DEB_TAR_SRCDIR and THES_BASE lines
[05:26] <enrico> 17:00 < enrico> And the UNZIP=-n and export UNZIP lines
[05:27] <sivang> sorry
[05:27] <sivang> woops
[05:27] <sivang> :)
[05:28] <sivang> enrico : will you take a look at my rules?
[05:28] <sivang> (commited)
[05:29] <enrico> sivang: remove the 'tarball' line, as you don't need to ship a tarball inside your source package to be unpacked at build time
[05:30] <sivang> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/tarball.mk:47: *** You must specify DEB_TAR_SRCDIR.  Stop.
[05:30] <lulu> plovs:ping
[05:30] <sivang> oh
[05:30] <sivang> :)
[05:30] <enrico> then try 'fakeroot debian/rules build' to see if ti works
[05:30] <plovs> lulu: hi
[05:31] <sivang> enrico : it created lots of html files on the parent dir
[05:31] <sivang> that's all
[05:31] <enrico> sivang: it went so far as to call the makefile, then.  it doesn't need to do much more
[05:32] <enrico> we're ok so far
[05:32] <enrico> Now, we probably have to fix upstream's makefile :)
[05:32] <enrico> sivang: Did you work with makefiles in the past?
[05:32] <sivang> yes :)
[05:33] <sivang> enrico : yes, but on low end uni projects, not ones of big projects etc.
[05:33] <enrico> sivang: good!  So, we probably want to generate the HTML in a subdirectory and a PDF file
[05:34] <enrico> appearently, xsltproc ignores the target file and just generates tons of html files
[05:34] <enrico> it probably wants a directory and not a file name, and the directory must exist according to xsltproc manpage
[05:35] <sivang> enrico : I don't understand how cdbs calls our make file :)
[05:35] <enrico> It just calls "make" :)
[05:35] <enrico> If you want to have more parameters passed to it, you can add something like: DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET+="further make options"
[05:36] <enrico> I'll fix the makefile for you.  moment...
[05:37] <sivang> tnx
[05:41] <enrico> sivang: committed
[05:42] <sivang> ok, let me check out
[05:43] <sivang> enrico : do you know if ubuntu devs are also using cdbs?
[05:43] <sivang> fakeroot debian/rules
[05:43] <sivang> test -x debian/rules
[05:44] <enrico> sivang: I think it depends on their preference
[05:44] <sivang> does not using cdbs allows finer grain control over pkg?
[05:45] <enrico> in theory not, but since cdbs is not that documented yet, one may feel like it because they don't know how to perform changes
[05:45] <enrico> However, I see two cases:
[05:45] <plovs> enrico, i have been looking at the man-pages, tomorrow i want to work on the apt apt-pages, where do i put them? do we have something in svn for it?
[05:45] <enrico> 1) changes over the common practices are small, then use cdbs
[05:46] <enrico> 2) changes over the common practices are huge, then just do things the old way
[05:46] <sivang> ok, I get it now
[05:47] <enrico> plovs: good question
[05:47] <enrico> plovs: I suggest you just put the changes as patches attached to bug reports in the Debian BTS or the Ubuntu bugzilla
[05:47] <enrico> That way, the maintainers can pick them up and include them in their packages
[05:48] <enrico> Oh, wait.  I'm talking about the manpages... what do you mean apt apt-pages?
[05:52] <sivang> enrico : why does debian rules only does test -x debian/rules ?
[05:52] <sivang> nothing happens
[05:52] <enrico> Uhm... it appears that Lupin uses KDE: http://www.blogmatic.net/mie/lupin_linux.avi :)
[05:55] <sivang> who is Lupin?
[05:55] <sivang> hehe he recieved a spam
[05:55] <sivang> :)
[05:56] <enrico> sivang: really, you don't know who's Lupin?
[05:56] <sivang> no :
[05:56] <sivang> :(
[05:57] <enrico> One of the best Japanese animation thingies: stories of a cool thief
[05:57] <enrico> In Italy, it's a supercult
[06:01] <enrico> sivang: got the new makefile?
[06:01] <enrico> works for you?
[06:01] <sivang> sec
[06:02] <sivang> XSLTPROC = /usr/bin/xsltproc --xinclude
[06:02] <sivang> XSL = ubuntu.xsl
[06:02] <sivang> .PHONY: all
[06:02] <sivang> all: html/index.html
[06:02] <sivang> html/index.html: usersguide.xml $(XSL) $(shell find parts -name '*.xml')
[06:02] <sivang>         mkdir -p html
[06:02] <sivang>         $(XSLTPROC) -o html/ $(XSL) $<
[06:02] <sivang> clean:
[06:02] <sivang>         rm -rf html/
[06:02] <sivang> ?
[06:02] <enrico> Sounds like what I committed, yes
[06:02] <sivang> ok,
[06:02] <sivang> when I do fakroot debian/rules
[06:02] <sivang> i get "test -x debian/rules" and nothing more.
[06:04] <enrico> it may be because you already built the HTML
[06:05] <enrico> try make clean and build the package again
[06:05] <enrico> make doesn't do things that don't need to be done :)
[06:06] <sivang> the same
[06:06] <sivang> I did make clean and redid rules,
[06:06] <sivang> same result
[06:10] <enrico> show me the output of 'make'
[06:12] <sivang> make alone does it right,
[06:12] <sivang> axcluding
[06:13] <sivang> excluding:
[06:13] <sivang> warning: failed to load external entity "parts/gnome/main.xml"
[06:13] <sivang> usersguide.xml:86: element include: XInclude error : could not load parts/gnome/main.xml, and no fallback was found
[06:13] <sivang> but when I do fakroot debian/rules it just gives:
[06:13] <sivang> test -x debian/rules
[06:19] <enrico> sivang: let's see
[06:20] <enrico> what's in your debian/rules
[06:20] <enrico> ?
[06:21] <enrico> here, it all works for me, with only 2 lines in debian/rules (namely, including debhelper.mk and makefile.mk)
[06:27] <enrico> sivang: around?
[06:50] <ChrisH> enrico: Perhaps he ran out of batteries again. :)
[06:51] <enrico> he seems to be still connected: I didn't see its connection time out
[06:54] <ChrisH> At the conference every Ubuntu maintainer gets an RFID tag implanted. Then we always know where sivang is.
[06:54] <enrico> I'll start wearing a lead suite :)
[06:54] <plovs> ChrisH: cool! and then we all go shopping together, peep peep 
[06:55] <ChrisH> plovs: Better. You don't need to pay. Everything you steal will be automatically charged to your credit card.
[06:56] <enrico> In the glass ball, a monitor with the RFID info read from the customer's RFID-enabled passport
[06:56] <enrico> I see... you're American!
[06:56] <ChrisH> Hardly. :)
[06:56] <plovs> is there some way to see what has changed in svn (RecentChanges)
[06:56] <enrico> And you leave in... Alabama!
[06:57] <enrico> plovs: svn diff
[06:57] <enrico> svn -r <an old version> diff
[06:57] <enrico> or svn log
[06:57] <plovs> enrico: thanks
[07:03] <plovs> enrico: i'm ok with putting man-page updates in bugzilla, but svn would give others a chance to look at it as well, i would like to get second opinions
[07:06] <enrico> plovs: in that case, it's a bit hard to track things right, as the upstream manpage could change in the meantime
[07:08] <plovs> enrico: then i'll just put it there and others will have to get from there then
[07:09] <enrico> I'd think so.  I think the likeliness of someone wanting to correct a correction is so low that it doesn't justify optimizing for review (in this case)
[07:09] <enrico> Remember to post patches, though
[07:10] <plovs> do we have a page now on naming Ubuntu or UbUntuGnuLinux etc?
[07:12] <enrico> plovs: I started an ubuntu-doc-tools with XML entities definitions for these ones
[07:12] <enrico> link coming
[07:12] <plovs> enrico: are there any plans to make sym-links in the repositories from hoary to stable etc?
[07:12] <enrico> plovs: svn co http://69.155.172.150/docutils
[07:12] <enrico> plovs: I don't know about that: I can ask the devels if you want
[07:13] <enrico> I mean, I can ask #ubuntu-devel
[07:13] <plovs> enrico: what do you think, i was reading the apt-page and it would simplify things, off course only if we use pinning as well
[07:14] <enrico> what do you mean with apt-page?
[07:15] <plovs> the apt man-page
[07:15] <enrico> ah, ok
[07:15] <enrico> I'll ask #ubuntu-debvel
[07:16] <plovs> in bugzilla it was asked to be updated, basically thet is s/Debian/Ubuntu/g and then stable/hoary etc
[07:17] <plovs> enrico: thanks
[07:20] <enrico> I report the answer here for the logs: no stable->warty kinds of links, although they do existin the CDs just in case d-i would break without them
[07:23] <plovs> enrico: ok
[07:42] <sivang> enrico : here!
[07:42] <ChrisH> Hey, sivang found his batteries. :)
[07:56] <lulu> night all :o)
[07:59] <sivang> ChrisH : what's RFID tag? :)
[07:59] <ChrisH> sivang: Ah, sorry, I didn't think of your 3rd world country. ;)
[08:00] <sivang> yes, you have to explain everything 3 times before we understadn :)
[08:00] <ChrisH> sivang: That are little transponders that are activated by a electromagnetic field and emit information that is stored.
[08:00] <ChrisH> sivang: They are introduced in some larger companies to "tag" goods. We at work are using it for more expensive things to track them until they reach the customer.
[08:00] <enrico> ChrisH: strange that an israelian doesn't know about RFID though
[08:00] <enrico> I know Israel is quite advanced on surveillance things
[08:01] <ChrisH> sivang: But it's dangerous. In the US companies are already tagging employees in first tests. Some customers service cards already contain RFIDs without telling the people. So they can track the customer everywhere where they have an antenna installed.
[08:01] <sivang> ChrisH : oh, I know about this :) just didn't know the acronym
[08:01] <ChrisH> enrico: Nah, I'm just joking with Sivan because he has some drainage and power problems. ;)
[08:01] <sivang> OMG
[08:02] <sivang> enrico : we do, the electric corporation is still in it's beta stage :)
[08:03] <enrico> otoh, someone is working on a cheap rfid reader detection device, that would beep whenever it's in range of and RFID reader 
[08:03] <sivang> enrico : I am not really interested in this technologies, actually they are big disgrace to freedom of speech IMHO
[08:04] <enrico> and a faraday-cage passport holder
[08:04] <enrico> sivang: very sure
[08:04] <sivang> haha
[08:04] <sivang> my order first!
[08:04] <sivang> when you open the company, ChrisH
[08:05] <ChrisH> Okay... :)
[08:05] <sivang> ;-)
[08:05] <sivang> enrico : ok, let's get back to the package, ok?
[08:05] <ChrisH> That reminds me... I need to get the mentors t-shirt done. Oops. Mataro is close.
[08:05] <enrico> sivang: ok.  last thing I said was: show me your debian/rules
[08:05] <sivang> yes, too close :)
[08:06] <sivang> enrico :  cat rules
[08:06] <sivang> #!/usr/bin/make -f
[08:06] <sivang> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[08:06] <sivang> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
[08:06] <enrico> sivang: it should work, then
[08:06] <enrico> show me the output of fakeroot debian/rules clean; fakeroot debian/rules build
[08:06] <enrico> if it's long, mail it
[08:10] <sivang> mailed
[08:14] <enrico> sivang: sounds like it works to me
[08:16] <enrico> now you can add "html/" in debian/docs to have the HTML documentation installed correctly in /usr/share/doc
[08:17] <enrico> (that is handled by dh_installdocs, called by cdbs.  If you want to know about the format of the docs file, read dh_installdocs manpage)
[08:21] <sivang> so everything under debian/doc --> {system_root$}/usr/share/doc ?
[08:23] <enrico> no... you list files inside the debian/docs file, and then dh_installdocs will make sure that they'll be installed in /usr/share/doc/package/...
[08:30] <sivang> enrico : ok
[08:33] <sivang> but I didn't make "fakeroot debian/rules" run
[08:34] <enrico> Sorry, I didn't understand: say it again?
[08:36] <sivang> enrico : I could not execute "fakeroot debian/rules" and have an html dir ready
[08:37] <enrico> That should be "fakeroot debian/rules build"
[08:38] <sivang> ah oops
[08:38] <enrico> When I do it, then I can "ls -la html" and see the generated files.  You should be able, too
[08:38] <sivang> I can
[08:38] <sivang> it works here the same
[08:38] <sivang> ok,
[08:38] <sivang> let's go on and finish this package :)
[08:39] <enrico> Now you can do the debian/docs file and try your luck with "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
[08:39] <enrico> "fakeroot debian/rules binary" creates the .deb file.  It'll put it in the directory ABOVE the one you run the command
[08:39] <enrico> To see if a .deb has what you need, you can dive into it using "mc"
[08:40] <enrico> Or, you can see what went inside it by having a look in debian/ubuntu-handbook
[08:49] <enrico> sivang: how is it going?
[09:00] <enrico> sivang: I'll have to leave in 30 minutes or so, but I'll also have to make a phone call
[09:00] <enrico> however, you're almost there.  The package name mismatches between debian/control and debian/changelog, and that's probably the only showstopper you have to having a .deb file built.  Then, it's just small fixes.
[09:00] <sivang> I'm here
[09:00] <sivang> sorry
[09:00] <enrico> About scrollkeeper, read /usr/share/doc/scrollkeeper/README.Debian
[09:00] <sivang> ok, I see
[09:00] <sivang> I will thakns,
[09:00] <sivang> sounds like I'm really almost there.
[09:00] <enrico> you can also apt-get source some package which installs scrollkeeper-enabled documentation and see what they do
[09:00] <enrico> Yes, you're almost there.
[09:00] <enrico> Use mc to navigate inside .deb files
[09:00] <enrico> Quit mc and restart it if you suspect it's caching the contents of an old .deb file (sometimes it does it)
[09:00] <enrico> When you think it could work, try dpkg -i <package>.deb and see what happens: it might even work :)
[09:00] <enrico> If it doesn't work, you can always "dpkg --purge ubuntu-handbook" and try again
[09:01] <sivang> ok, thanks alot enrico!
[09:02] <enrico> sivang: if tonight you have some time, I'd really like you to put down a small technical story on how you packaged this, which could be useful for people learning how to make .deb packages
[09:03] <enrico> afaik, there are not many beginner's documents about it (although ChrisH may know of some that I don't)
[09:03] <enrico> I know of none :)
[09:08] <sivang> ok, I will talk with him also
[09:08] <sivang> about it
[09:08] <sivang> anywya, I'm off to the shower and then finish the package,
[09:09] <sivang> I will not do anything more today bedies finishing the package and writing the newbie howto to the packaging
[09:14] <ChrisH> Uh... what's that? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/starterguide
[09:15] <ChrisH> Shouldn't parts of that rather to into the user guide?
[09:15] <sivangAFK> what is that?
[09:16] <sivangAFK> anyway, after shower..
[09:16] <ChrisH> Just found it on the page.
[10:29] <ChrisH> I just heard that KDE is about to be packaged for ubuntu. Looks like we need to do our screenshots twice. :)
[10:32] <ChrisH> Forget that... the information is still classified. Sorry, but I need to blank your memories.
[10:51] <sivang> ChrisH : ok, what is that link used for?
[10:52] <ChrisH> sivang: Just saw it on the front page. Haven't heard from it before.
[10:53] <sivang> ah ok, what nm docs are you working on for the bof?
[10:54] <ChrisH> sivang: The new maintainers/mentoring stuff Mark asked for. However I don't see a meeting for that yet. I hope it's not for the bin.