[12:02] <jdub> Kamion: around?
[12:11] <jdub> elmo: ping
[12:12] <elmo> jdub: ?
[12:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: hmm, I can't reproduce it.. I'm asking the guy who told me.
[12:12] <jdub> elmo: can you reaim bugzilla at ubuntu-bugs now? :)
[12:13] <elmo> jdub: err, not unless someone tells me how?
[12:13] <jdub> hrm
[12:13] <jdub> actually, i might be able to do it
[12:14] <jdub> i don't think i can
[12:15] <sivang> was modconf removed from hoary?
[12:17] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[12:17] <elmo> jdub: can you give me any hints?
[12:17] <mdz> sivang: modconf has never worked properly with 2.6 kernels, I don't think
[12:17] <mdz> it was not in Warty either
[12:17] <elmo> beyond grep -r warty-bugs 
[12:19] <jdub> elmo: i have no idea, really
[12:21] <sivang> mdz : ok, sorry I should have known that.
[12:22] <mdz> elmo: I can mysql it if you give me access
[12:22] <mdz> I don't think I can do it via the interface without having it mail an auth token to the list
[12:22] <mdz> hmm, actually no
[12:22] <mdz> I think that bit is hardcoded
[12:23] <mdz> elmo: grep -r it is
[12:23] <fabbione> and right now i can declare the first room of my house FINISHED
[12:23] <mdz> elmo: Bugzilla/BugMail.pm, ~line 342
[12:23] <elmo> yeah, it's part of the patch set
[12:23] <mdz> yeah
[12:24] <mdz> 007
[12:24] <mdz> fabbione: congratulations
[12:24] <mdz> I don't think i can say that about any room in my house
[12:24] <mdz> and I've been here a year
[12:24] <fabbione> mdz: eheh i know that feeling... the rest is gonna take much longer
[12:24] <elmo> I can kind of say that about my bedroom, but only because I moved everything in it to the spare room to make room for the new bed ;)
[12:24] <fabbione> at least tomorrow i can move to the new office
[12:25] <mdz> fabbione: i386 kernel is go
[12:25] <fabbione> mdz: cool
[12:26] <fabbione> waht about ppc?
[12:26] <mdz> I am downloading a warty powerpc image so that I can fix the kernel-image breakage that is making it unbootable
[12:26] <mdz> i.e., can't test yet
[12:26] <fabbione> ok thanks
[12:26] <mdz> I was going to use a hoary CD to fix it, but it was busted
[12:26] <fabbione> and thanks for signing my keys
[12:26] <fabbione> yeah Kamion said so before
[12:26] <carlos> mdz: do you know the fix? did you saw my bug report?
[12:26] <mdz> fabbione: finally :-)
[12:27] <mdz> carlos: no and no
[12:27] <fabbione> mdz: there is always a hope..
[12:27] <fabbione> joey was much slower than you :-)
[12:27] <carlos> mdz: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4190
[12:28] <mdz> carlos: oh, that
[12:28] <mdz> carlos: that's a duplicate, shame on you :-P
[12:28] <carlos> really?
[12:28] <mdz> carlos: I thought you were asking about the powerpc hoary CD
[12:28] <mdz> rather than the kernel-image breakage
[12:29] <sivang> carlos : he makes me feel very bad when I open duplicates also ;-)
[12:29] <carlos> which one is the other bug so I could close that one?
[12:29] <carlos> sivang: :-)
[12:29] <nictuku> hi. I'm willing to make an interface to help easy translation of the site and documentation, but I need some support from you guys.
[12:29] <mdz> I am so much nicer about ubuntu duplicates than I am about debbugs duplicates :-P
[12:30] <nictuku> my idea is to help translators to keep versions in synch easily, by providing them a simple interface showing the differences between versions, and letting them just translate the part that changed (although it can't be too strict on this).
[12:31] <mdz> [Clint] : eek, versioned conflict in an essential package
[12:31] <mdz> now there's a scary apt test case
[12:34] <elmo> I hope it's not two Essential packages; that's an amusingly unknown special case 
[12:34] <Clint> mdz: to work around a bug in a non-essential package.  yes, it's great.
[12:35] <Clint> oh, and it's a replaces now, per Kamion
[12:36] <Clint> not sure how that matters to apt
[12:38] <nictuku> well, i'll just write it. if you find it useful, lucky me.
[12:49] <sivang> mdz : is there a way I can leave dbus-1 running, and just disable hald?
[12:49] <jdub> sivang: tried removing hal?
[12:53] <sivang> jdub : I did! It works falwlessly now, and with gamin, it's faster like a bullet
[12:54] <sivang> jdub : is there any point in leaving dbus-1 and just disabling hald?
[12:55] <jdub> yeah, other things use dbus
[12:56] <jdub> so hal is slowing your machine down badly?
[12:56] <mdz> Clint: replaces is much more apt-friendly
[12:56] <mdz> Clint: it's very nearly ignored
[12:58] <sivang> jdub : it was so badly, the machine became completly stoned :)
[01:00] <sjoerd> sivang: just disk access slowing or really the complete machine ?
[01:00] <sivang> jdub : ok, how can I just leave dbus-1 on and disable hald, there is not /etc/init.d/hald 
[01:00] <jdub> sivang: just uninstall hal
[01:01] <sivang> sjoerd : disk access seems to be the one which is most badly influneced, yes.
[01:01] <jdub> see also /etc/dbus-1/event.d/ -> but removing hal would be simpler
[01:01] <sjoerd> sivang: laptop with both hd and cd on the same ide bus ?
[01:06] <sivang> sjoerd : how do I check that? lspci shows only one IDE interface.
[01:07] <sjoerd> what device is your cd ? hdb ?
[01:07] <sivang> sjoerd : yes
[01:07] <sjoerd> ah, just turn of media checking, no need to remove hal completely
[01:07] <sjoerd> known problem.. buy real hardware next time :)
[01:07] <sivang> sjoerd : real hardware? :)
[01:09] <sjoerd> sivang: something that has a dedicated bus for the hd and one for the cd
[01:10] <sivang> sjoerd : why this is not a problem on other machine which use the same bus for both devices?
[01:10] <sjoerd> other machine == laptop too ?
[01:10] <sivang> sjoerd : no :)
[01:11] <sivang> sjoerd : but not everyone reported that with their laptop, guess they have dedicated busses per device.
[01:11] <sjoerd> the problem is that your cd drive goes into ``sleep'' between two hal polls
[01:11] <sjoerd> so when it polls again it has to be waken up, which makes the bus unavailable for some time
[01:11] <sjoerd> on dekstop machine, cd drives don't have this behaviour apparently
[01:12] <jdub> sjoerd: nice!
[01:13] <sivang> sjoerd : how did you find this out?
[01:13] <sivang> sjoerd : and also, why your nickname appears on the first python example at python.org ? ;-)
[01:13] <sivang> sjoerd : (the addressbook example)
[01:14] <sjoerd> that's a coincidence :)
[01:14] <sjoerd> sivang: i know because your not the first one and there was some discussion about it on the hal list
[01:15] <sjoerd> jdub: actually, not so nice :)
[01:15] <sivang> sjoerd : ok, I'll mv the startup links back to SXX and try just diabling media check :)
[01:15] <jdub> sjoerd: well, in "challenging things to work around" bug kind of nice ;)
[01:17] <sjoerd> dunno if it happens a lot.. We could provide some fdi rules in the example to disable the media checking on just the internal cdrom.. So it still checks plugged in devices
[01:18] <sjoerd> sivang: imnsho everything a laptop that has both hd and cd on the same ide bus is just a toy.. that's what i ment with, buy real hardware
[01:18] <sivang> sjoerd : well, this isn't mine even :) if I buy one I think it's going to be a thinkpad
[01:18] <sivang> or better yet,
[01:19] <sivang> a PowerBOok
[01:19] <sjoerd> hehe
[01:19] <sivang> people here say all the time how wonderful ubuntu is on the pb
[01:19] <sivang> :)
[01:19] <sjoerd> but debian is wonderfull :)
[01:23] <mdz> sjoerd: sjoerd doesn't run ubuntu.....yet :-)
[01:23] <mdz> fabbione: still up?
[01:24] <sivang> mdz : hehe
[01:24] <mdz> fabbione: powerpc booted and seems to work
[01:24] <mdz> fabbione: however, I found a regression on i386
[01:24] <mdz> my CD writer is no longer recognised correctly
[01:25] <sjoerd> mdz: don't hold your breath for that :)
[01:25] <sjoerd> time too sleep.. night!
[01:25] <sivang> sjoerd : night!
[01:26] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. i was testing 2.6.9 on i386
[01:26] <fabbione> mdz: and i got some kind of error in dmesg that i didn't like
[01:26] <fabbione> mdz: about a release function in a driver
[01:27] <fabbione> mdz: anyway i really really need to go and get some sleep
[01:27] <mdz> fabbione: I've gotten that for many versions, nothing to worry about
[01:27] <fabbione> it's like 1:30am
[01:27] <mdz> fabbione: I'll see if I can debug my problem
[01:27] <fabbione> mdz: ah ok
[01:27] <fabbione> mdz: what regression do you have?
[01:27] <mdz> fabbione: <mdz> my CD writer is no longer recognised correctly
[01:27] <mdz> (USB)
[01:27] <fabbione> hmmm
[01:28] <fabbione> i recall something about changing usb stuff
[01:28] <fabbione> and it was related to usb-mass storage
[01:28] <mdz> yeah, my CD burner gets detected as mass-storage
[01:28] <mdz> works fine under the current hoary kernel
[01:28] <mdz> (gets incorrectly detected as mass-storage under 2.6.9)
[01:29] <mdz> I'm googling it, I'll let you know tomorrow
[01:29] <fabbione>       . usb-storage-vendor-count.dpatch
[01:29] <fabbione> that was changed
[01:29] <fabbione> mdz: it's like a 2 line diff
[01:29] <fabbione> iirc
[01:29] <mdz> hmm
[01:29] <mdz> that patch was added by Debian?
[01:30] <fabbione> no it was stolen from upstream
[01:30] <mdz> fabbione: is your .dsc/.diff.gz available somewhere?
[01:30] <fabbione> but there were 2 lines that were in conflict
[01:30] <mdz> fabbione: who added it to the package?
[01:30] <fabbione> i can uploaded
[01:30] <mdz> or it was in 2.6.8.1?
[01:30] <fabbione> it was in 2.6.8.1
[01:30] <fabbione> upstream in 2.6.9
[01:30] <fabbione> but with 2 lines that were different
[01:31] <fabbione> let me dig it up ..
[01:31] <fabbione> mdz: the orig is on my home on davis or concordia
[01:33] <fabbione> mdz: anyway if you check the patch from 2.6.8.1
[01:33] <fabbione> it's like 2 addition and one removal
[01:33] <jdub> oh no
[01:33] <jdub> i'm going to have to choose between mjg's acpi love and inotify
[01:34] <fabbione> jdub: why?
[01:34] <mdz> fabbione: looking at it
[01:34] <mdz>  1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
[01:34] <jdub> well, yours won't have those crazy dsdt patches, right?
[01:34] <fabbione> yeah...
[01:34] <fabbione> jdub: not yet...
[01:34] <jdub> and mjg's doesn't have inotify :)
[01:34] <mdz> I think it's unrelated
[01:34] <fabbione> i need to discuss with mjg about them
[01:34] <jdub> unless we can convince him to rebuild against yours :)
[01:35] <fabbione> jdub: actually i would be more happy to merge the 2 in a sane way
[01:35] <mdz> that patch smells a bit like crack
[01:35] <fabbione> mdz: but it has been applied upstream
[01:35] <mdz> fabbione: no, the dsdt patch
[01:35] <fabbione> just slightly differnt
[01:35] <fabbione> ah ok
[01:36] <fabbione> dpkg-source: building linux-source-2.6.9 in linux-source-2.6.9_2.6.9-1.diff.gz
[01:36] <fabbione> few secs :-)
[01:36] <jdub> mdz: really handy though
[01:37] <jdub> mdz: to the point where we might be able to ship dsdt files for known b0rk hardware :)
[01:37] <mdz> jdub: if we already know about them, we can fix them in the kernel
[01:37] <mdz> the patch only lets you fix it after the fact
[01:37] <mdz> and leaves the user to dig up some workaround and not report a bug :-P
[01:37] <jdub> that means we'd have to create something in the kernel which would select the right dsdt, and crank up the kernel size with dsdt foo
[01:38] <mdz> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/254610
[01:38] <mdz> fabbione: ^^ that's the problem I'm having
[01:39] <mdz> jdub: my understanding is that new ACPI patches work around this stuff in other ways
[01:39] <mdz> not shipping DSDTs
[01:40] <fabbione> mdz: checking
[01:40] <mdz> but I haven't checked
[01:40] <jdub> mdz: the dsdt tells acpi what's going on...
[01:40] <mdz> http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/11/3/147
[01:40] <mdz> that's the same problem
[01:41] <mdz> fabbione: ^^ has a workaround
[01:41] <mdz> apparently just disabling the ub driver
[01:41] <mdz> er, compiling it in
[01:41] <sivang> night all!
[01:42] <mdz> fabbione: perhaps we should just do CONFIG_BLK_DEV_UB=n
[01:42] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. easy :-)
[01:42] <fabbione> let me finish to read
[01:42] <fabbione> you are fresh and dandy ;)
[01:42] <mdz> fabbione: now that I know what to look for, that is the prevailing advice
[01:42] <fabbione> i am close to crash
[01:42] <mdz> "don't use ub"
[01:43] <mdz> fabbione: since this is the only problem found, I would like to make that change and upload if it's OK with you
[01:43] <fabbione> why on heart my machine is running update-db at this time
[01:43] <mdz> (after testing that it fixes my problem, of course)
[01:43] <fabbione> mdz: wait for upload. i have other changes pending
[01:43] <fabbione> mdz: test the fix is more than OK
[01:43] <jdub> mdz: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugs/
[01:44] <mdz> fabbione: I would like to get something into the archive (as non-default) since it fixes many bugs, and gives something to test for unknown bugs
[01:45] <fabbione> mdz: please let me do it tomorrow
[01:45] <mdz> jdub: excellent
[01:45] <mdz> fabbione: ok, ok
[01:46] <fabbione> mdz: i want daniels changes in too since they fix other ubuntu bugs
[01:46] <mdz> fabbione: X has put you in the habit of making huge uploads with many changes :-)
[01:46] <mdz> there is nothing wrong with making two uploads
[01:47] <fabbione> mdz: because the kernel takes 3 times as much as X to compile
[01:47] <mdz> buildd cycles are cheap
[01:47] <fabbione> CONFIG_BLK_DEV_UB=y -> n
[01:47] <fabbione> mdz: for our buildd yes...
[01:47] <fabbione> not for my test machines ;)
[01:48] <fabbione> mdz: diff and dsc are on p.u.c/~fabbione/kernel/
[01:48] <mdz> we have already tested the current stuff; if you make more changes we need to re-test
[01:48] <mdz> thanks
[01:48] <mdz> jdub: should we announce its existence?
[01:48] <fabbione> mdz: i know.. and we didn't test probably 1/10 of the changes anyway :-)
[01:49] <fabbione> the changelog for 2.6.9 is like 1.5MB
[01:49] <jdub> mdz: yeah
[01:49] <fabbione> + our changes
[01:49] <jdub> mdz: want me to post?
[01:49] <fabbione> anyway i need to get some sleep
[01:49] <fabbione> otherwise tomorrow i will be dead
[01:49] <mdz> jdub: sure, thanks
[01:49] <mdz> fabbione: night
[01:49] <fabbione> night
[02:00] <mdz> jdub: is there anything else hiding out on rince that we should publicise?
[02:01] <jdub> nup
[02:01] <jdub> (just checked the list)
[02:51] <lamont> sigh... mako?
[07:56] <mdz> fabbione: eek
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: i found plastic pieces all over
[07:57] <fabbione> and thanks god i had another fan big enough to replace this one
[07:57] <fabbione> but i need to change it
[07:58] <fabbione> this is a really bad hack
[07:58] <mdz> fabbione: does this mean no kernel builds for you today? ;-)
[07:58] <fabbione> i think i also had some disk corruption
[07:58] <fabbione> mdz: not at all.. all my devel stuff is mirrored across 3 machines :-)
[07:59] <fabbione> but the worst thing is that the kernel didn't boot with a really annoying CRC error
[07:59] <mdz> fabbione: do you think you can get 2.6.9 into hoary today?
[07:59] <fabbione> that means i need to build a new one and replace it
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: sure
[07:59] <fabbione> no doubts
[07:59] <mdz> great
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: i need to wait pitti stuff
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: that's the only bits i need to finish to merge
[08:00] <fabbione> and i need to wait one hour at least to let all my secondaries MX to flush the cache into my server :-)
[08:00] <mdz> those aren't regressions from 2.6.8.1, so if those bits can't be done today for whatever reason, don't let it delay you
[08:00] <fabbione>       [>....................]   recovery =  0.0% (101308/117220672) finish=2058.2min speed=948K/sec
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: i am still not sure what bits are missing...
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: did you check that cd burner stuff?
[08:00] <mdz> fabbione: some of the patches in -16.1
[08:01] <mdz> fabbione: I tried, but was not able to get it working
[08:01] <fabbione> aren't they upstream?
[08:01] <mdz> fabbione: some, but not all
[08:01] <fabbione> ok
[08:01] <mdz> -16.1 and some other stuff in preparation
[08:01] <mdz> herbert and pitti have details
[08:01] <fabbione> now i remember why i did upgrade the kernel
[08:01] <mdz> fabbione: I tried removing the ub module from the usbmap, but it still didn't work for some reason
[08:02] <fabbione> at that speed it will take ages to rebuild the raid
[08:02] <fabbione> mdz: ok...
[08:02] <fabbione> i guess we will deal with it later
[08:02] <mdz> fabbione: there was no .orig.tar.gz in your directory, and the md5 is not the same as Debian's
[08:02] <mdz> so I could not go much further
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: on davis and concordia yes
[08:03] <fabbione> and no.. i am not using their orig.tar.gz because it is different (prune-non-free)
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: are you using a kernel.org tarball, then?
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: almost.. yes
[08:05] <mdz> almost?
[08:05] <mdz> where can I download your tarball?
[08:05] <doko> morning all
[08:05] <fabbione> there is one file that needs to be removed because DPATCH is RETARTED
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: from my home directory on davis or concordia
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: same as 6 hours ago :-)
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't change location
[08:06] <fabbione> davis:~ $ ls
[08:06] <fabbione> linux-source-2.6.9_2.6.9.orig.tar.gz
[08:06] <mdz> unknown host davis
[08:06] <mdz> unknown host concordia
[08:06] <fabbione> .ubuntu.com
[08:06] <fabbione> they are not in the other dns
[08:06] <fabbione> and you need to proxy them
[08:06] <fabbione> via chinstrap
[08:07] <mdz> I was on chinstrap
[08:07] <mdz> gah
[08:07] <mdz> they only resolve fully qualified
[08:08] <mdz> fabbione: any ideas for another quick test for the usb problem before I go to bed?
[08:09] <fabbione> mdz: other than recompiling the kernel without that thing no
[08:09] <fabbione> mdz: it is compiled it
[08:09] <fabbione> in
[08:09] <fabbione> so there is no point in removing it from the usbmap
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: Nov 30 16:32:27 <fabbione>      mdz: the orig is on my home on davis or concordia
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: that is all you said before, not .ubuntu.com :-P
[08:09] <fabbione> mdz: next time don't go in holidays for too long :P
[08:10] <mdz> CONFIG_BLK_DEV_UB=m
[08:10] <mdz> that is 2.6.9-1
[08:10] <fabbione> oh
[08:10] <fabbione> hmmm
[08:10] <fabbione> you can try compiling it in?
[08:10] <fabbione> or rm the module from /lib/modules
[08:29] <jdub> W: GPG error: ftp://ftp.nerim.net unstable Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 07DC563D1F41B907
[08:29] <jdub> 
[09:14] <lifeless> morning
[09:14] <tuo2> no it's not :)
[09:23] <fabbione> pitti: ping
[09:23] <pitti> fabbione: pong
[09:24] <fabbione> dude.. your mail is like: "hey have fun!"
[09:24] <pitti> fabbione: it already took me very long to extract this out of Herbert's changelogs and the mail flood
[09:24] <fabbione> ehhe
[09:24] <pitti> fabbione: why, you have CAN numbers, links to patches, what else do you want?
[09:24] <fabbione> pitti: we need to go trough it together
[09:25] <pitti> fabbione: of course
[09:25] <fabbione> pitti: you!
[09:25] <fabbione> i want you
[09:25] <pitti> fabbione: this is only my personal track list
[09:25] <pitti> fabbione: I'm back in about 5 minutes
[09:25] <fabbione> me to
[09:57] <jdub> morning boys and girls. and Keybuk.
[09:58] <daniels> morning mr dub
[09:59] <jdub> yo daniels 
[09:59] <Keybuk> morning mrs jdub
[10:20] <doko> jdub: ping?
[10:20] <jdub> pong
[10:21] <doko> is #3811 still an isue? that's reported for OOo-1.1.2
[10:21] <jdub> doko: i don't believe so
[10:21] <jdub> didn't hit me when i installed 1.1.3
[10:22] <doko> ok, thanks.
[10:24] <fabbione> WOW
[10:24] <fabbione> only 300 lines of changelog for 2.6.9
[10:24] <fabbione> and i still have to finish!
[10:25] <fabbione> + it's not even anal as it was before dpatch trashed half of it
[10:26] <daniels> fabbione: that's nothing, kid :P
[10:26] <fabbione> daniels: go back and fix xorg
[10:27] <fabbione> my glxgears shows me 7598 fps instead of 7599 
[10:27] <fabbione> I CANNOT LIVE WITH THIS REGRESSION
[10:27] <fabbione> ahhaa
[10:27] <daniels> RESOLVED/WONTFIX
[10:27] <pitti> fabbione: you have to add today's dollar value, remember
[10:27] <daniels> stop buying crappy nvidia hardware :P
[10:28] <Matt|> grrrrr
[10:28] <Matt|> i'm rocking at 400
[10:28] <daniels> Matt|: unless you can tell the difference between 400 and 450 FPS in glxgears, and care about that difference, it's unimportant
[10:28] <Matt|> daniels, im not blaming you, just whinghing about my computer
[10:28] <daniels> why does it matter?
[10:28] <daniels> no-one actually sits there and watches glxgears
[10:28] <daniels> and notices the difference
[10:28] <Matt|> daniels, i want 7598
[10:28] <daniels> benchmark games if it bothers you
[10:29] <daniels> but benchmarking glxgears is stupid
[10:29] <Matt|> whoa ok it was just a joke man
[10:41] <mvo_> ping mdz
[10:43] <pitti> mvo_: he already went to sleep
[10:44] <mvo_> pitti: thanks
[10:45] <calc> it overwrites part of the grub stage1_5
[10:47] <calc> and makes grub give a very useful error 21 output after first reboot
[11:28] <daniels> fabbione: ping
[11:29] <fabbione> yeah kid
[11:31] <fabbione> oh
[11:35] <pitti> daniels: ping
[11:37] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[11:40] <daniels> fabbione: any luck with the kernel?
[11:41] <fabbione> daniels: yes. i have almost done
[11:41] <fabbione> daniels: i am including your patches now
[11:41] <fabbione> after that it is a run of buildds
[11:42] <fabbione> and upload
[11:47] <fabbione> dilinger: sure... i will put them on the web in a sec
[11:47] <fabbione> erhm
[11:50] <daniels> fabbione: let me know when you upload so I can get it out of the archive to fix l-r-m
[11:52] <fabbione> daniels: yes i know you are waiting for it :-)
[11:56] <fabbione> daniels: 2 of your patches require kernel config modification
[11:56] <fabbione> + you shouldn't modify debian/ in dpatch
[12:12] <Kamion> jdub: yo
[12:12] <Kamion> mdz: yo
[12:12] <jdub> hey Kamion 
[12:12] <daniels> fabbione: ahr, yeah
[12:12] <Matt|> guys what package provides gnome-panel-screenshot do you know?
[12:12] <jdub> Kamion: have some interesting questions about installer
[12:12] <fabbione> daniels: i will keep ipw2100-fsam7400.dpatch  synaptics-cpad-support.dpatch for -2
[12:12] <jdub> Matt|: gnome-utils will include it
[12:12] <fabbione> daniels: because it will require a resync of the configs
[12:12] <jdub> Matt|: it moved upstream
[12:12] <Matt|> thanks
[12:12] <Kamion> calc: hey, if you know more details about that, could you add them to bug #2254 please?
[12:12] <daniels> fabbione: dude, it's one line!
[12:12] <fabbione> daniels: and it takes hell of a lot of time
[12:13] <daniels> the diff should even apply cleanly
[12:13] <fabbione> daniels: that's not the point
[12:13] <daniels> what is?
[12:13] <fabbione> daniels: you changed for i386 & co...
[12:13] <daniels> fabbione: right ...
[12:13] <fabbione> if the patch is not clean, ppc and amd64 will bitch about it
[12:13] <Kamion> if the installer detects a low-memory system, it should automatically select custom mode
[12:13] <daniels> fabbione: define 'not clean'
[12:13] <Matt|> jdub, i already have gnome-utils but can't find the command
[12:13] <fabbione> daniels: arch specific
[12:13] <Kamion> jdub: go ahead
[12:13] <Matt|> jdub, and the screenshot keybinding does not work
[12:13] <jdub> Matt|: it's not in the current package, that's why it doesn't appear in the menu
[12:13] <Matt|> oh right
[12:14] <Matt|> jdub, i see what you mean by "will" now, sorry :)
[12:14] <Matt|> kewl thx
[12:17] <Matt|> has the command changed to launch openoffice spreadsheets?
[12:17] <jdub> shouldn't have
[12:18] <Matt|> nautilus doesn't know how to open xls files
[12:18] <jdub> but there may be borkage between the versions, perhaps in the .desktop files
[12:18] <Matt|> not worth a bug right?
[12:18] <haggai> Matt|: oowriter
[12:19] <haggai> someone said there were UTF-8 errors in .desktop files, I haven't seen them myself
[12:19] <Matt|> haggai, oocalc still works ok i think
[12:19] <haggai> Matt|: oops, yeah that's what I meant
[12:19] <Matt|> haggai, its a nautilus problem i guess
[12:22] <elmo> fabbione: no -j 4 ??
[12:23] <fabbione> elmo: not now.. i need to test the packages for real and upload
[12:23] <fabbione> elmo: i will play leter if you don't mind :-)
[12:23] <elmo> no, I don't mind, curious to see if it stays up
[12:23] <elmo> buildd does, but then very little uses > 1 CPU
[12:23] <fabbione> elmo: with -j 4 is not an issue
[12:24] <fabbione> elmo: run more than one buildd daemon on each box :-)
[12:24] <fabbione> fuck
[12:24] <fabbione> concordia has basically finished the first kernel
[12:24] <daniels> concordia doesn't run buildd, does it?
[12:25] <daniels> yeah dude, it pantses davis
[12:25] <fabbione> the others are still in the middle of nowhere
[12:25] <thom> elmo: i think the buildds were seeing a nasty scsi/smp interaction
[12:25] <elmo> fabbione: no, concordia, davis and halley are dedicated port boxes
[12:25] <thom> (for amd64)
[12:25] <elmo> thom: ah
[12:26] <fabbione> elmo: i know they are... i didn't even question that :-)
 concordia doesn't run buildd, does it?
[12:26] <thom> which i guess conc. wouldn't see
[12:26] <elmo> one day, I'm going to bring my computer down with me to the DC, plug it in, rename it to concordia and take the real concordia home ;)
[12:26] <thom> heh
[12:26] <elmo> and see who notices that the amd64 port box, err, isn't an amd64 first ;P
[12:27] <elmo> fabbione: "dedicated" --> "no buildd"
[12:27] <thom> see, i could get away with that :P
[12:27] <fabbione> elmo: yes.. i meant that if you have SMP on the buildd (not concordia or davis or ..) just run more instances of buildd :-)
[12:28] <daniels> elmo: i'd notice when my xorg builds didn't finish three times as quicker as davis
[12:30] <thom> i don't think anyone would notice a single amd64 3k v two opteron 2500s, would they? :P
[12:30] <daniels> thom: no, not half!
[12:31] <bob2> guv'na
[12:33] <Kamion> hooray, lamont/elmo fixed the daily d-i build
[12:33] <elmo> oh, damn that means I have to install them again
[12:33] <daniels> bob2: sun 'ill
[12:34] <jdub> thom: DUDE
[12:34] <jdub> thom: i enabled header caching today
[12:34] <jdub> thom: HOLY COW
[12:34] <elmo> debian-installer | 20041118ubuntu4.0.20041201 | i386 | 5 hours old
[12:34] <elmo> kamion; hmm, doesn't seem fixed
[12:34] <jdub> thom: i wish it were something we could configure by default
[12:35] <Kamion> elmo: well, I see stuff in /dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-*/
[12:35] <Kamion> maybe somebody bodged it?
[12:35] <elmo> oh, that's yesterday's
[12:36] <Keybuk> jdub: dude, GtkFileChooser should be spatial ... I want to go into a parent folder, and have it scrolled down to the same place as last time I was in there
[12:36] <elmo> GtkFileChooser should just plain suck less
[12:36] <elmo> typeahead doesn't even work
[12:36] <Keybuk> elmo: it does in hoary?
[12:37] <jdub> Keybuk: :)
[12:37] <elmo> oh, does it? yay
[12:38] <Keybuk> I'm determined to find time to write my Firefox-esque completion idea for Nautilus
[12:38] <jdub> i will lock you in a cupboard "accidentally" at matar
[12:38] <Keybuk> kinky
[12:39] <jdub> i didn't even mention the positive reinforcement
[12:39] <thom> jdub: yeah, header caching kicks the lama's ass
[12:39] <daniels> thom: 'whips'
[12:39] <jdub> it's seriously fast
[12:40] <jdub> very helpful for u-u
[12:40] <thom> aye
[12:42] <Kamion> jdub: header caching in what?
[12:42] <jdub> mutt
[12:42] <thom> mutt
[12:43] <jdub> # header caching directory
[12:43] <jdub> set header_cache = ~/.mutt/cache
[12:43] <jdub> 
[12:43] <jdub> ^ yum
[12:43] <jdub> $ du -sh .mutt/cache/
[12:43] <jdub> 56M     .mutt/cache/
[12:43] <jdub> heh
[12:43] <thom> jdub: um, is g-u-s supposed to work?
[12:43] <jdub> thom: yeah
[12:43] <thom> 11:43 ~% ls -lh tmp/mutt-header-cache
[12:43] <thom> -rw-------  1 thom thom 118M 2004-12-01 11:21 tmp/mutt-header-cache
[12:44] <jdub> you went with one file
[12:44] <jdub> ?
[12:45] <thom> jdub: is it supposed to show up in nautilus?
[12:45] <thom> jdub: yeah
[12:46] <jdub> thom: it should appear in Network, yeah
[12:46] <jdub> thom: ah, you might be hitting some funny mdnsresponder bugs
[12:47] <thom> when i started using header cache you could only have one file ;-)
[12:47] <thom> oh?
[12:47] <thom> fixable?
[12:47] <jdub> thom: you're connected to a network with a default route, etc?
[12:47] <thom> yep
[12:48] <jdub> try restarting mdnsresponder
[12:49] <seb128> jdub: #2596, your comment was for this bug ?
[12:49] <thom> nautilus segfaulted, but i still see nothing in Network
[12:50] <jdub> seb128: yes
[12:50] <seb128> how the missing link is connected to this problem ?
[12:51] <Keybuk> jdub: what appears in network?
[12:51] <jdub> "jdub's Public Files"
[12:51] <jdub> lower case though ;)
[12:52] <Keybuk> how do you set what your public files are ?
[12:52] <jdub> you don't
[12:52] <jdub> it's ~/Public
[12:52] <Keybuk> hmm
[12:52] <Keybuk> I don't have one of those
[12:52] <jdub> thom: hrm, do you have a ~/Public?
[12:53] <thom> yep
[12:53] <jdub> Keybuk: see discussion on d-d-l :)
[12:54] <Keybuk> that's a long discussion :p
[12:54] <jdub> you can ignore the dobey-being-a-child bits
[12:54] <Keybuk> so I made a ~/Public. put a file in it, and still don't have any public files in Network
[12:55] <jdub> have you run gnome-file-share-properties?
[12:55] <thom> yep
[12:55] <jdub> thom: i imagine you've done the right thing...
[12:55] <jdub> but it's this Keybuk character i'm worried about
[12:55] <thom> heh
[12:56] <thom> apache is running correctly, and i can connect
[12:56] <Keybuk> jdub: ah, there's not an icon for that anywhere :p
[12:56] <jdub> nup
[12:57] <jdub> that'll go through some change, i imagine
[12:57] <Keybuk> so how do I see tom's public files?
[12:57] <jdub> if you're on the same local link, you should just see it in Network
[12:57] <thom> i can see neither me or Keybum
[12:57] <Keybuk> nope ... :(
[12:57] <jdub> haw haw keybum
[12:57] <jdub> hrm
[12:57] <jdub> okay
[12:57] <jdub> install howl-utils
[12:57] <jdub> and do this for me:
[12:58] <jdub> thom, run "mDNSBrowse _webdav._tcp"
[12:58] <thom>  mDNSBrowse _webdav._tcp
[12:58] <thom> [assert]  error: 111 (Connection refused)
[12:58] <thom> [assert]  where: "socket.c", "sw_socket_tcp_connect", line: 720
[12:58] <jdub> keybuk, run "mDNSPublish bong _webdav._tcp 8080"
[12:58] <Keybuk> jdub: if I do the same thing ... I 
[12:58] <jdub> thom: stop mdnsresponder and start it again
[12:58] <Keybuk> I see:
[12:58] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% mDNSBrowse _webdav._tcp
[12:59] <Keybuk> browse reply: Add Service 0x2 scott's public files _webdav._tcp. local.
[12:59] <Keybuk> resolve reply: 0x2 scott's public files _webdav._tcp. local. 192.168.1.11 34549
[12:59] <jdub> Keybuk: great :)
[12:59] <jdub> Keybuk: in which case, it really ought to appear in your Network window :)
[12:59] <Keybuk> jdub: your Publish thing made a bong folder appear in Network
[12:59] <jdub> Keybuk: great
[12:59] <Keybuk> yeah, I see my folder in Network now ... just needed enabling
[12:59] <fabbione> 2.6.9: ppc is GO
[01:00] <thom> feh, still can't see it
[01:00] <thom> i get the browse replies in mdnsbrowse
[01:00] <thom> but nada in nautilus
[01:01] <jdub> are you using warty or hoary?
[01:01] <daniels> er, hold on
[01:01] <daniels> this isn't because you can't do wireless broadcast, is it?
[01:01] <thom> hoary
[01:01] <thom> daniels: no, it's just nautilus that's having problems
[01:02] <jdub> killall nautilus
[01:02] <daniels> i see 'bong' and 'scott's public files'
[01:02] <daniels> RESOLVED/WORKSFORME
[01:02] <daniels> maybe it objects to your choice of keyboard layout? :)
[01:02] <thom> ahr
[01:03] <thom> yeah, killing nautilus again cured it
[01:03] <jdub> probably the mdnsresponder b0rk there
[01:04] <Keybuk> so how do we use this to talk to people? :p
[01:04] <Keybuk> other than publishing silly folder names?
[01:05] <thom> rendezvous advertises a different service
[01:05] <daniels> that could work awesomely with jabber
[01:05] <thom> it nearly works
[01:05] <daniels> _jabber_.tcp
[01:05] <thom> daniels: that's what rendezvous is, yes
[01:05] <daniels> or _jabber._tcp
[01:05] <daniels> thom: oh?  i thought it was some aim-based crap
[01:05] <Keybuk> so where's the Gossip + Howl integration?
[01:06] <ross> iirc, hallski said that is in the plan
[01:06] <daniels> mvo_: could you please upload xpdf 10ubuntu2 without the libxau-dev b-d?
[01:06] <thom> daniels: AIUI rendezvous is jabber
[01:06] <mvo_> daniels: it fails to build for me without the dev
[01:06] <daniels> mvo_: xpdf doesn't use anything from libxau, that's xprint, and i fixed libxp-dev last night
[01:06] <thom> iChat supports jabber entirely, they just don't expose it :(
[01:07] <daniels> mvo_: upgrade to libxp-dev 6.8.1-1ubuntu4
[01:07] <mvo_> all right, thanks
[01:07] <daniels> cheers
[01:07] <jdub> thom: so depressing
[01:07] <thom> jdub: aye
[01:07] <daniels> that's really impressive -- my iriver has been off for at least ten minutes
[01:08] <daniels> yet there is apparently 2GB of cached data
[01:08] <thom> might be fixed in tiger
[01:11] <Keybuk> I'm so patching g-t-m to say "Take the hint!" after the third time you postpone it
[01:12] <thom> heh
[01:12] <thom> workrave++
[01:13] <Keybuk> workrave I'm patching to add silly exercise suggestions
[01:13] <daniels> Keybuk: yah, workrave does crap all over g-t-m
[01:13] <Keybuk> "mosh"
[01:13] <Keybuk> "hop on one leg and sing, bitch"
[01:13] <thom> heh
[01:20] <jdub> pants off, mjg59 
[01:21] <daniels> PANTS
[01:21] <Keybuk> daniels: so, dude, do you want to keep your hair? :)
[01:23] <daniels> you didn't seriously bring clippers, did you?
[01:23] <Keybuk> yup
[01:24] <daniels> christ
[01:24] <Keybuk> he had messy long hair too... yes
[01:27] <thom> 019 thom      25   0  5420 2172 4120 R 89.1  0.4  33:02.85 gnome-user-shar
[01:27] <thom> what the hell is it doing?
[01:27] <mjg59> jdub: PANTS
[01:27] <mjg59> Aww. My lca talks didn't get accepted.
[01:28] <mjg59> Sob.
[01:28] <thom> suck :(
[01:28] <mjg59> Poor me.
[01:28] <mjg59> I'll just need to find some other excuse to go
[01:30] <Keybuk> heh
[01:30] <Keybuk> Canonical Conference, if that happens over there? :)
[01:32] <daniels> mjg59: bugger
[01:33] <seb128> Keybuk: have you read my mail about the panel changes ?
[01:35] <thom> jdub: so, why is g-u-s spinning my cpu so hard?
[01:39] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, I agree with Jeff I think -- short time screwage, then reimplement things with a Places menu
[01:39] <seb128> the problem is the "short"
[01:39] <seb128> do we have a good idea of what we want ?
[01:42] <daniels> oh, heh!
[01:42] <daniels> i deleted my LCA mail as spam
[01:42] <thom> dumbass
[01:42] <daniels> but!  trash knows all.
[01:44] <Keybuk> seb128: just talking to Mark...
[01:45] <seb128> Keybuk: ok. Perhaps we should wait a few day and speak about all this during the conf
[01:47] <Keybuk> go with upstream, do the fd.o menu changes with Applications, Places, System? sounds like the plan
[01:47] <seb128> jdub: here ?
[01:50] <seb128> Keybuk: Ok, I'll start by looking on the internal of the new system. gnome-menus handles the applications menu, dunno how easy it'll be to move categories in an another top menu (like the computer one)
[01:59] <Keybuk> have upstream done anything about integrating Nautilus' Places and the GtkFileChooser bookmarks yet?
[02:00] <seb128> I was speaking with alex (the nautilus main devel) about this 2 days ago
[02:00] <seb128> since he has finished the bonobo-slay
[02:00] <seb128> he has not decided yet, but he agreed that would be nice to get this for 2.10 ... I need to ping him again
[02:01] <Keybuk> that's pretty much a requisite of our Places menu, no?
[02:01] <Keybuk> or is that GnomeVFS'd ?
[02:04] <seb128> hum, good question. Since there is not unification for the moment about this ...
[02:04] <seb128> ok, I'll ping alex about this
[02:05] <seb128> and delay the new panel until next week so we can figure all that exactly during the conf
[02:12] <pitti> ping daniels 
[02:13] <daniels> pitti: pong
[02:22] <mjg59> daniels: Man, you suck
[02:23] <daniels> ...
[02:29] <GotD0t> daniels: any word on 3D accleration in hoary with those new fangled drivers of yours?
[02:30] <azeem> is there a canonical place for build logs?
[02:30] <thom> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
[02:30] <thom> iirc
[02:30] <fabbione> yeah
[02:30] <fabbione> it's that one
[02:31] <azeem> thansk
[02:31] <Keybuk> jdub: theme!
[02:32] <daniels> GotD0t: on which card?
[02:32] <GotD0t> daniels: ati 9700
[02:33] <daniels> nope
[02:33] <GotD0t> daniels: are there any cards with 3d accleration?
[02:33] <daniels> er, yeah
[02:33] <fabbione> who wants some real good crack?
[02:33] <daniels> like everything except radeon >= 9500 or nvidia cards
[02:33] <fabbione> mput linux-source-2.6.9_2.6.9*
[02:33] <fabbione> 49117455 bytes transferred in 3 seconds (16.90M/s)                             
[02:33] <fabbione> Total 4 files transferred
[02:33] <fabbione> enjoy
[02:34] <GotD0t> hmm
[02:34] <Keybuk>      Battery 1: charging, 100%
[02:34] <Keybuk> hmm
[02:34] <daniels> more of that legendary HP ACPI support :P
[02:34] <GotD0t> daniels: well if you need me to test ill gladly be your guinea pig ;-)
[02:35] <daniels> GotD0t: as soon as I have that code, I'll be bouncing off the walls and annoucing it loud and clear
[02:35] <GotD0t> daniels: haha
[02:35] <fabbione> elmo: i think the kernel will need some of your love
[02:35] <fabbione> elmo: afaik it should be new
[02:35] <Keybuk> daniels: it's just determined to *really* charge the battery
[02:36] <Keybuk> present rate:            11 mA
[02:36] <GotD0t> daniels: well your work is certainly appreciated
[02:36] <elmo> processed
[02:36] <fabbione> ehehhe
[02:36] <fabbione> thanks man!
[02:41] <Kamion> eject
[02:41] <Kamion> oops
[02:41] <fabbione> ehehhe
[02:41] <Kamion> damn that ircsh
[02:43] <thom> at least you have a desk currently
[02:43] <GotD0t> Kamion: thats... interesting
[02:47] <fabbione> Kamion: how would you feel to start working together on the kickstart thingy?
[02:47] <pitti> Hi mvo_ :-)
[02:47] <mvo_> hi pitti 
[02:49] <Kamion> fabbione: sounds good; why don't we kick it off in mataro?
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: fully agreed
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: i would be busy anyway the next 2 days :-)
[02:50] <fabbione> oh i can also help you with USB installations
[02:50] <fabbione> i have done that before
[02:50] <Kamion> those should be easy, I just need to flip the switch
[02:50] <Kamion> yeah, likewise
[02:50] <fabbione> too bad that i prepared the usb thingy with everything
[02:50] <fabbione> until i realized i had no pc that could boot from usb
[02:50] <Kamion> they'll be essentially netboot
[02:50] <Kamion> I have several :)
[02:50] <fabbione> i have one now
[02:51] <fabbione> yeah
[02:52] <Kamion> dunno if people follow #debian-boot, but I'm thinking of switching to the Debian experimental branch for parted
[02:52] <Kamion> it will help us out by possibly killing off that damned Windows-trashing bug, and it will help Debian out by getting them additional testing
[02:53] <fabbione> Kamion: break it early? ;)
[02:55] <Kamion> yep
[02:56] <zul> break it often? :)
[02:56] <fabbione> break it. <- full stop
[02:57] <zul> heh
[02:58] <fabbione> well have fun guys
[02:58] <fabbione> (specially when 2.6.9 will hit the mirror)
[02:58] <fabbione> i really need to get some sleep
[03:17] <lamont> Kamion: for the record, the "fix" on the two broken ones was to re-run the build script... 
[03:17] <lamont> please avoid doing uploads around 6AM london time.
[03:17] <lamont> for NEW, same goes for elmo. :-)
[03:17] <lamont> d-i stuff, that is.
[03:18] <Kamion> that's fairly safe for me :)
[03:18] <elmo> lamont: err, that doesn't expllain today's breakage, surely?
[03:19] <lamont> elmo: sigh.
[03:19] <lamont> yet newer source, or just the next-day build of yesterdays?
[03:19] <lamont> daniels: doh!
[03:19] <elmo> lamont: 20041201 build of same source that's been in the archive for a while now
[03:20] <lamont> ok.  will look at it.
[03:34] <lamont> doko?
[04:41] <magnon> Arh. Does anyone else have a broken nautilus?
[04:58] <lamont> Kamion: you about?
[05:01] <Kamion> lamont: yep
[05:30] <bob2> pbbuttonsd seems fucked in hoary
[05:30] <bob2> it ignores notap, so I get random mouse clicks from typing and hitting the touchpad
[05:33] <lupus_> if I remove /.gconf
[05:34] <Keybuk> thom: how often do you move patches about?
[05:35] <thom> move the order infrequently
[05:35] <Kamion> elmo_away: could you bump pciutils-udeb to standard please?
[05:35] <thom> bob2: elmo has mentioned that too, i think
[05:35] <bob2> yay
[05:36] <thom> so you're not entirely on crack, for once
[05:36] <bob2> if I get an x40, you have to fix bugs for me
[05:36] <bob2> so watch it
[05:36] <thom> Mithrandir: only idly? you should be radiating ACTIVE and TOTAL hate at it
[05:37] <thom> ahem
[05:37] <thom> bob2: there are no bugs on x40
[05:37] <Mithrandir> thom: it's saturating my DSL.
[05:37] <haggai> thom: if is wasn't so huge it wouldn't be all that bad.
[05:37] <Keybuk> thom: I guess in the dpatch-world you just mv the patch?
[05:37] <haggai> thom: the code itself isn't so bad
[05:38] <Mithrandir> haggai: I'm on amd64, so it's doubly bad.
[05:38] <haggai> Mithrandir: yeah, there's that small problem
[05:38] <Mithrandir> and I only have a slow 3MBit DSL.
[05:38] <thom> Keybuk: mv then twiddle 00list
[05:38] <Keybuk> thom: aside from daniels's "non-functioning" wireless?
[05:38] <Mithrandir> haggai: I need to download about 400MB to update the version now.
[05:38] <thom> well, that's just atheros suck
[05:38] <Keybuk> I'm trying to decide whether "hct mvpatch" is sane
[05:38] <bob2> people who use 'slow' and '3bmit dsl' in one sentence suck
[05:39] <thom> you mean rename-patch; i guess
[05:39] <Keybuk> thom: could be ... remove-patch and rename-patch ?  bit zsh-reliant
[05:39] <haggai> 400??
[05:39] <thom> mvpatch implies dealing sensibly with patch ordering, i guess
[05:39] <Mithrandir> haggai: amd64 sources is 200, i386 is 170.
[05:39] <Mithrandir> or amd64 "sources".
[05:40] <Mithrandir> bob2: what kind of camera did you end up with?
[05:40] <haggai> Mithrandir: you mean, sources for dependent libs, or something?
[05:40] <bob2> Mithrandir: dsc-p150
[05:40] <Mithrandir> bob2: rock! :)
[05:40] <Mithrandir> haggai: no, sources + i386 binaries.
[05:40] <thom> haggai: for enough of a 32bit binary system to run OOo
[05:40] <Keybuk> thom: I hate ui :-/
[05:41] <thom> Keybuk: heh
[05:41] <haggai> Mithrandir: ah, ok so not really sources
[05:41] <Mithrandir> haggai: sources + i386 binaries.
[05:41] <Mithrandir> ia32-libs-ooo is in addition
[05:41] <Kamion> haggai: the sooner this goes away, the happier my source CD builds will be :)
[05:41] <Mithrandir> mumblemumblemultiarchmumblemumble.
[05:42] <haggai> Kamion: just gimme a bounty to finish off the port...
[05:42] <Kamion> haggai: talk to mdz :)
[05:43] <haggai> ok :)
[05:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: in this instance it's a workaround though
[05:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's a sweet, crackful workaround, though.
[05:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir <- weirdo
[05:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion :)
[05:56] <Kamion> elmo_away: likewise usbutils-udeb priority -> standard please; those two give us lspci and lsusb in the installer environment
[05:57] <mdz> haggai: hmm?
[05:57] <Mithrandir> haggai: where has ooo-crashrep gone?
[05:57] <Kamion> elmo_away: (by default, without having to do weird stuff with expert mode or anna-install)
[05:57] <mdz> mvo__: pong
[05:57] <mdz> Kamion: I was going to ask you about hoary d-i on powerpc
[05:58] <Kamion> mdz: yep?
[05:58] <mdz> Kamion: it doesn't detect my CD-ROM, and if that's not entirely expected, I can help debug it
[05:58] <lamont> elmo/kamion: btw, it appears that the d-i daily failure was due to timing between cron.daily and BuildDI
[05:58] <lamont> I time shifted it to 0615 local, should be happier come morning
[05:58] <lamont> but I'll check then.
[05:58] <Kamion> mdz: that's probably the generic udev problem that got fixed in the newer d-i build
[05:58] <Kamion> lamont: ah, good
[05:59] <Kamion> mdz: workaround: when languagechooser comes up, switch to tty2 and 'mkdir /etc/udev/scripts; mv /etc/udev/*.sh /etc/udev/scripts/'
[05:59] <Kamion> mdz: see if that helps
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: this was a daily, 1-2 days old I think
[05:59] <mdz> I can just rsync down a newer one
[05:59] <Kamion> mdz: sure, 20041201.1 is fixed
[06:00] <Kamion> haven't tried it on powerpc yet; I have a kernel build going here for Debian so I can't do so just now
[06:03] <haggai> Mithrandir: it was too much trouble to be worth it
[06:04] <Mithrandir> haggai: ok
[06:04] <haggai> mdz: I idly suggested a bounty for the OOo 64 bit port
[06:04] <haggai> Mithrandir: under KDE I get the KDE bug buddy (with openoffice.org-kde); I wonder if the gnome bug buddy does the same
[06:11] <mdz> haggai: I vaguely recall when we talked about this before, that 64-bit work was planned for a later release which probably wouldn't make our cutoff; is that still the case?
[06:12] <Keybuk> seb128, jdub: uh, why has "Session" disappeared from Desktop Preferences ?
[06:13] <haggai> mdz: yes, that's true it's not worth doing the work on 1.1 (which I guess Mithrandir is more worried about)
[06:14] <Mithrandir> haggai: I'm mostly moaning, just ignore that. :)
[06:14] <haggai> :)
[06:14] <Mithrandir> would anybody care if we didn't ship openoffice.org-dev for amd64?
[06:14] <haggai> Mithrandir: nope
[06:14] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure it would work at all, and it's universe.
[06:15] <haggai> it's only interesting for people developing stuff against OOo anyway
[06:16] <haggai> mdz: we'll have to see what happens for 2.0.  Time is beginning to run out to fix up the 64 bit port for 2.0, but since it is likely to be just after hoary, we'll have several months to worry about it for grumpy
[06:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: no, certainly not important
[06:17] <mdz> haggai: is there a published schedule for 2.0?
[06:17] <mdz> haggai: or is that an estimate of when the required work will be completed?
[06:20] <seb128> Keybuk: hum, part of the new panel changes, the .desktop has been moved to /usr/share/applications instead of /usr/share/control-center/
[06:21] <seb128> Keybuk: and the old panel doesn't use /usr/share/applications for the Desktop Preferences
[06:22] <Keybuk> so how much stuff are we going to lose before we get the new panel?
[06:24] <seb128> we will stay in the current situation, next step is the new panel
[06:24] <seb128> so you can count the missing items :p
[06:24] <seb128> but right, the sooner we push the new panel the better
[06:24] <seb128> jdub: ping ?
[06:27] <Mithrandir> uhm, is ooo-l10n-en supposed to be uninstallable now?
[06:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I thought that'd been fixed
[06:28] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/hoary_probs.html says it's ok
[06:29] <Mithrandir> yeah, just an old packages file, it seems
[06:30] <haggai> mdz: the schedule for 2.0 is March 2005, but there is no schedule for the 64 bit port
[06:30] <mdz> haggai: if it doesn't make it, it'd be a fine Grumpy bounty
[06:31] <mdz> not to encourage it to slip or anything :-)
[06:31] <mdz> interesting that oo.o and GNOME are both releasing in March
[06:31] <haggai> mdz: yeah, that's one way to look at it.  Problem is, if the port turns out to need drastic changes it will be difficult to get them upstream quickly if we wait until 2.0
[06:32] <haggai> s/until 2.0/after 2.0/
[06:32] <mdz> would it be a crazy idea for Hoary to track oo.o 2.x development and release with 2.0?
[06:32] <mdz> that's what we're going for GNOME 2.10
[06:32] <mdz> s/going/doing/
[06:32] <haggai> not completely crazy
[06:32] <Kamion> feature goal! *cough*
[06:32] <haggai> Novell are already concentrating on 1.9
[06:32] <mdz> maybe package it up in parallel, and decide later whether we should make the switch
[06:33] <thom> elmo has just been broken by gnome-terminal prettiness
[06:33] <haggai> yeah, we can consider packaging in parallel anyway.  I find it does better than 1.1 quite often already
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: it's not too late for a new feature goal; I imagine several will surface during Mataro ;-)
[06:34] <mdz> haggai: has oo.o always done time-based releases?  how likely is it that the date will be met?
[06:35] <Kamion> mdz: I'm not objecting, just lobbing peanuts from the gallery really :-)
[06:35] <mdz> Kamion: hey, you're on the wrong side to be lobbing peanuts ;-)
[06:35] <haggai> mdz: yeah, they try to stick to their schedules.  It could slip, but it is quite possible they'll get it out on time
[06:36] <mdz> it's awfully tempting
[06:36] <Kamion> mdz: d'oh
[06:36] <haggai> we already have several 2.0 features :) native cups, fontconfig, widget backports
[06:37] <haggai> so those are already getting good testing
[06:37] <Mithrandir> haggai: why does ooo ship ./usr/lib/openoffice/program/libtl645li.so which is linked to libgnomevfs?
[06:37] <haggai> Mithrandir: gnome vfs support, but that should be in a seperate pkg
[06:38] <haggai> openoffice.org-gnomevfs
[06:38] <haggai> Mithrandir: you could drop it if it's hard
[06:38] <_rene_> it *is* in a separate package ;-)
[06:39] <Mithrandir> haggai: : tfheen@golem ..amd64-1.1.2-2ubuntu6/pkgs > dpkg -c openoffice.org-bin_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu4_i386.deb|grep libtl645li.so
[06:39] <Mithrandir> -rw-r--r-- root/root    723136 2004-11-30 15:23:51 ./usr/lib/openoffice/program/libtl645li.so
[06:39] <_rene_> Mithrandir: one is in -bin and one in -gnomevfs
[06:39] <_rene_> Mithrandir: the latter one diverts the one from -bin
[06:39] <Mithrandir> _rene_: can we _please_ get rid of the one in -bin?
[06:39] <Mithrandir> or at least make it not link to gnomevfs?
[06:39] <_rene_> Mithrandir: no. because then we would have -bin depending on gnomevfs
[06:40] <_rene_> Mithrandir: the -gnomevfs one depends on gnomevfs
[06:40] <haggai> Mithrandir: the one in -bin isn't supposed to link to gnomevfs
[06:40] <_rene_> (when everything went right...)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> _rene_: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/setup.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgnomevfs-2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[06:40] <_rene_> worked on my 1.1.3-x builds anyway
[06:40] <Mithrandir> it says when I run openoffice from the command line
[06:41] <Mithrandir> and ldd says:
[06:41] <_rene_> probably a ubuntu-only problem? ;)
[06:41] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ..amd64-1.1.2-2ubuntu6/pkgs > ldd /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libtl645li.so | grep gnome
[06:41] <Mithrandir>         libgnomevfs-2.so.0 => not found
[06:41] <Mithrandir> this is a _big_ problem for me. :)
[06:41] <haggai> chris@feathers:/usr/lib/openoffice/program$ ldd libtl645li.so  | grep gnome
[06:41] <haggai> chris@feathers:/usr/lib/openoffice/program$
[06:41] <mdz> haggai: oo.o 1.1.3 gave me an EULA dialog the first time running it; is thaht normal?
[06:41] <_rene_> mdz: no
[06:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: can you please check on an i386 system?
[06:41] <haggai> mdz: no, that shouldn't happen.  How did you start it?
[06:42] <mdz> it was on an i386 system
[06:42] <mdz> started from mutt, opening a .doc file
[06:42] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, check the ldd line we're talking about
[06:42] <mdz> that was the first time running 1.1.3
[06:42] <_rene_> mdz: what does mutt run?
[06:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: oh :-)
[06:42] <mdz> _rene_: whatever is in /etc/mailcap
[06:42] <mdz> openoffice '%s'
[06:42] <_rene_> mdz: if it doesn't run the wrapper script (openoffice, oo*) that shouldn't happen
[06:42] <_rene_> errm
[06:42] <_rene_> s/shouldn't happen/happens/
[06:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: as I don't have any hoary i386 systems around :)
[06:44] <elmo> seeeeeb
[06:44] <elmo> seb128: is it known that clicking on .html documents in nautilus doesn't work?
[06:44] <elmo> even right clicking and 'Open with firefox' doesn't work
[06:46] <mdz> Kamion: what are udeb priorities used for?
[06:46] <mdz> mizar:[/space/tmp/mdz/tmp]  ldd /usr/lib/openoffice/program/setup.bin | grep gnome
[06:46] <mdz> zsh: done       ldd /usr/lib/openoffice/program/setup.bin |
[06:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: ^^^
[06:46] <seb128> elmo: not, it's not ... it's not even opening the file in a tab of an existant firefox ?
[06:46] <mdz> mizar:[/space/tmp/mdz/tmp]   ldd /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libtl645li.so G gnome
[06:46] <mdz>         libgnomevfs-2.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 (0x400eb000)
[06:47] <seb128> elmo: works here
[06:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: and you don't have ooo-gnomevfs installed?
[06:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: correct
[06:47] <mxpxpod> is it planned to get 2.6.9 into ubuntu?
[06:47] <mdz> mxpxpod: it is already in hoary
[06:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, then something broke when it built.
[06:48] <Mithrandir> haggai, _rene_: anybody of you know why this have happened?
[06:48] <Matt|> guys any idea why I would have /proc and /home randomly unmounted for no reason? It is happening to me a lot these days. Since the last 2.6.8.1 kernel in hoary
[06:48] <haggai> Mithrandir: hold on a sec
[06:48] <mxpxpod> mdz: I don't see a linux-source package
[06:48] <thom> mdz: is G an alias to |grep, by chance?
[06:48] <haggai> mdz: can you uninstall ooo-gnomevfs and then try?
[06:48] <mdz> Matt|: jdub said that happened when he was trying out some network config app, I think
[06:48] <mdz> thom: yes
[06:48] <Mithrandir> haggai: he doesn't have ooo-gvfs installed
[06:49] <haggai> Mithrandir: ah ok I got the wrong sense
[06:49] <Matt|> mdz, i was just using xchat and firefox :( first thing i noticed was me pinging out of irc. Same story yesterday
[06:49] <haggai> it's _rene_'s bit of hackery, that one
[06:49] <haggai> _rene_: ?
[06:49] <mdz> mxpxpod: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hoary-changes/2004-December/000710.html
[06:49] <_rene_> hmm?
[06:49] <_rene_> yeah, the two libtl building is a bit hackish
[06:49] <haggai> _rene_: any idea why your dirty hack broke? *hide*
[06:49] <Kamion> mdz: priority >= standard gets installed by anna by default
[06:50] <_rene_> no ;-)
[06:50] <mdz> elmo: is 2.6.9 waiting in queue/new by any chance?
[06:50] <mdz> looks like it built on i386 and amd64
[06:50] <_rene_> Mithrandir: have a buildlog somewhere?
[06:50] <Mithrandir> _rene_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/openoffice.org/1.1.3-2.3ubuntu4/openoffice.org_1.1.3-2.3ubuntu4_20041130-0742-i386-successful
[06:50] <mdz> haggai: I don't have ooo-gnomevfs installed
[06:51] <mxpxpod> mdz: hrmm, that's strange... and apt-get cache search linux-source only shows me 2.6.8.1
[06:51] <mdz> mxpxpod: it has been built, but hasn't entered the archive yet
[06:52] <mdz> it was just uploaded today
[06:52] <mxpxpod> mdz: ahhhh, ok
[06:52] <mxpxpod> mdz: that makes sense
[06:52] <Kamion> elmo: are you running germinate at least as new as patch-11?
[06:52] <Kamion> elmo: (i.e. can I use the new substitution variables feature in the installer seed?)
[06:52] <mxpxpod> mdz: btw, where do I get the cramfs patch so I can make an initrd image?
[06:52] <Kamion> mxpxpod: cramfs is in 2.6 by default
[06:52] <Kamion> (AFAIK)
[06:52] <elmo> kamion; no
[06:52] <Kamion> elmo: could you be? :)
[06:52] <mdz> mxpxpod: it's part of linux-patch-debian-2.6.8.1, or in the linux-source-<ver> source package
[06:53] <mxpxpod> mdz: ah, ok
[06:53] <mxpxpod> mdz: thanks
[06:54] <elmo> mdz: yes, processed
[06:54] <elmo> kamion: no
[06:54] <elmo> ;-)
[06:55] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[06:55] <smurfix> 
[06:55] <mdz> good timing, since I find that I need to burn a CD
[06:55] <mdz> which doesn't work with the 2.6.9 pre-release I'm running, and hopefully fabio's final build fixes it
[06:57] <elmo> kamion: [updated] 
[06:57] <elmo> apparently I have no local changes anymore, hmm
[06:58] <elmo> mdz: can you/someone seed it please?
[06:59] <lamont> mdz: ppc upload is going to miss this cron.daily
[06:59] <lamont> (just finished)
[06:59] <mdz> elmo: will do
[06:59] <lamont> s/ed/ing/
[07:03] <mdz> Kamion: the cramfs initrd patch is in 2.6 by default?  I didn't think it was
[07:03] <mdz> though I don't see it in the source package, so I suppose you're right
[07:04] <mdz> we should patch all that obnoxiousness out of kernel-package, then
[07:05] <mxpxpod> mdz: ok, how do I build the ubuntu kernel with an added patch of my own?
[07:05] <Matt|> mxpxpod, get the source, patch it, build kernel
[07:05] <mxpxpod> mdz: just grab linux-source-2.6.9 and linux-patch-debian-2.6.9?
[07:06] <Kamion> elmo: ta
[07:06] <Kamion> mdz: I'm fixing the installer seed now
[07:06] <mxpxpod> Matt|: where do I get the default config they use?
[07:07] <Matt|> mxpxpod, /boot?
[07:07] <mxpxpod> Matt|: isn't it housed somewhere in the linux-source?
[07:08] <Matt|> mxpxpod, not sure, it's def in /boot tho
[07:09] <Matt|> mdz, sorry to bother you again, but do you know if any progress has been made on the acpi patch in the kernel? #2711 was still there in the 2.6.9 i tried
[07:20] <mdz> Matt|: mjg59 would be the person to ask
[07:21] <Matt|> mdz, kthx
[07:21] <mdz> thom: all unpacked yet? :-)
[07:21] <mjg59> Matt|: I'm just about to head home - can you ask me in an hour or so?
[07:21] <Matt|> mjg59, of course
[07:21] <mjg59> Thanks
[07:21] <Matt|> thank YOU
[07:21] <Matt|> :)
[07:21] <Matt|> its not really a question
[07:29] <thom> mdz: haha
[07:29] <thom> mdz: i'm at marks
[07:30] <thom> my house is still in boxes
[07:30] <thom> i'm going to go home and unpack enough to find some clothes for BCN
[07:30] <daniels> thom: g'night captain
[07:30] <thom> ciao
[07:33] <elmo> new fonts are SO SHINY
[07:33] <mdz> what new fonts?
[07:33] <daniels> elmo: hinting by default
[07:34] <daniels> s/elmo/mdz/
[07:34] <mdz> haven't noticed a difference
[07:34] <daniels> warty->hoary change
[07:36] <elmo> mdz: dude, on my laptop it's freaking incredible
[07:36] <daniels> powerbook shiny, news at 11 :P
[07:36] <elmo> mdz: I've started running a) gnome-terminal rather than xterm, b) emacs in a gnome-terminal just to get more of the shiny
[07:36] <Matt|> *laughs*
[07:39] <Matt|> openoffice 1.1.2 looked betta tho imo
[07:39] <mdz> elmo: you just started using gnome-terminal rather than xterm?
[07:39] <mdz> elmo: so you didn't even have anti-aliased fonts before?
[07:40] <kylem_> gnome-terminal is slooowwwww. but yeah, it's shiny.
[07:41] <mdz> the shininess is enough to outweigh the slowness for me
[07:41] <zul> what about aterm?
[07:41] <Matt|> me too
[07:43] <seb128> aterm doesn't support utf-8 atm IIRC
[07:44] <Matt|> aterm didn't work properly on warty when i tried it ages ago, dunno if it does now
[07:45] <mdz> fabbione: 2.6.9-1 in hoary breaks in the same way with regard to my USB writer
[07:48] <mdz> GAH
[07:48] <fabbione> mdz: there has been no code changes in that way
[07:48] <mdz> fabbione: I thought you changed it to CONFIG_BLK_DEV_UB=n
[07:48] <fabbione> mdz: you said that it made no difference
[07:49] <fabbione> since it was a module
[07:49] <fabbione> or i might be confused
[07:49] <fabbione> anyway.. -2 stuff
[07:49] <elmo> mdz: yep
[07:49] <mdz> I said that it did make a difference
[07:49] <fabbione> ah
[07:49] <fabbione> mdz: than i misunderstood, sorry
[07:49] <fabbione> mdz: go ahead with a -2
[07:50] <fabbione> i will take it from there
[07:50] <mdz> I am building a kernel without UB now to test if it actually solves the problem
[07:50] <fabbione> ah so i was right that you didn't test it directly
[07:50] <fabbione> or at least i remember properly
[07:50] <fabbione> ok 
[07:50] <fabbione> later
[07:51] <fabbione> if i don't finish for this evening i won't be able to work tomorrow :-)
[07:52] <mdz> elmo: dude, welcome to the 21st century
[07:53] <elmo> dude, gnome-terminal in warty is unusably slow on 1600x1200 or higher
[07:53] <mdz> I run it at 1600x1200
[07:53] <mdz> you just get in the habit of redirecting things to files :-P
[07:53] <Kamion> that sucks :)
[07:54] <Kamion> I really must get pterm linked against gtk2
[07:54] <elmo> lamont: dude, try hoary gnome-terminal.. SHINY SHINY SHINY
[07:54] <Mithrandir> elmo: but slow
[07:54] <mdz> gnome-terminal actually gets the mouse-selection stuff right that xterm gets wrong
[07:54] <Kamion> it kicks xterm's arse speed-wise let alone gnome-terminal
[07:54] <mdz> which is completely the opposite of how it used to be
[07:54] <Kamion> mdz: xterm's totally configurable there surely?
[07:54] <elmo> Mithrandir: no, it's a lot better, at least on my powerbook's res, I haven't tried ultra-high-res desktop yet
[07:55] <Mithrandir> elmo: dog slow on my 2GHz athlon64 at 1280x1024
[07:55] <elmo> boggle
[07:55] <Mithrandir> and dog slow on my P4 2.4GHz with the same res at uni.
[07:55] <mdz> Kamion: I don't think so; for example, I could never get xterm to un-wrap multi-line selections from less(1) output
[07:55] <Mithrandir> if I do find /, I'm able to vgrep for stuff
[07:55] <elmo> ...... EWW
[07:55] <elmo> okay, gnome-terminal hasn't actually been fixed, it's only usable with small fonts
[07:56] <Mithrandir> elmo: and it consumes 100% cpu while doing that.  Or 80% or something.
[07:56] <elmo> yeah
[07:56] <elmo> I just found that out.
[07:56] <elmo> wah.  rock (lack of shiny), hard place (crap scrolling)
[07:56] <Kamion> elmo: I've switched the installer seed to 2.6.9 now; I'll upload new debian-installer when the powerpc udebs are there
[07:56] <daniels> elmo: patch in gnome bugzilla
[07:57] <elmo> Kamion: processed ppc
[07:58] <Kamion> d'oh, memo to self, xargs vi considered CONFUSING
[07:58] <mdz> elmo: I'm also completely addicted to the session save/restore features of gnome-terminal
[07:58] <elmo> how's that differ from screen?
[07:59] <mdz> pretty different idea
[07:59] <mdz> puts all your terminals back in the same places on the same desktops
[07:59] <mdz> with the same cwd
[07:59] <Keybuk> ya know ... I'm going to start talking about all the uploads I do in my activity report
[07:59] <Keybuk> today I uploaded 5 packages
[07:59] <Keybuk> look, here's the changes files
[07:59] <Keybuk> :)
[08:00] <daniels> elmo: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122656
[08:00] <Kamion> Keybuk: which you put how much personal effort into? :)
[08:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: there's man-MONTHS of work there
[08:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: per day ... impressive
[08:01] <Keybuk> the fact that an automated system produced them
[08:01] <Keybuk> and someone else entirely uploaded them
[08:02] <Keybuk> (and just didn't bother to change the debian/changelog entry)
[08:02] <Keybuk> is all irrelevant :p
[08:02] <elmo> mdz: oh, I get around that by having one big terminal that covers the entire screen :->
[08:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: you'd better snip off the GPG signature :)
[08:02] <elmo> Keybuk: oh, that was really you uploading them?  I assumed it was another impostor
[08:02] <Keybuk> mdz: I disable the gnome-session stuff
[08:02] <Keybuk> elmo: no!
[08:03] <mdz> Keybuk: disable?  isn't it simpler to just not check the "save session" box?
[08:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: (why don't you set debian/changelog to something more obviously to-be-changed, incidentally?)
[08:03] <mdz> (i.e., the default)
[08:03] <Keybuk> I'm subtly bitching about all the "ACCEPTED" mails I get that are nothing to do with me! :p
[08:03] <Keybuk> mdz: that's what I do
[08:03] <Mithrandir> poor Keybuk
[08:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: because then people still wouldn't change it
[08:03] <mdz> Keybuk: I set everything up once, check the box, and use that session on future logins (and don't save again)
[08:03] <Keybuk> ah right
[08:03] <Keybuk> I rely on too many apps that don't frakking work
[08:04] <mdz> ooh
[08:04] <Keybuk> Mozila "I spawn 2000 Choose Profile windows" Firefox
[08:04] <mdz> I just remembered about firefox gnomesupport
[08:04] <mdz> maybe it can restore itself now, too
[08:04] <Kamion> mdz: most of my terminals are too transient for that to be worthwhile; the ones that aren't are logins on other systems
[08:04] <elmo> Keybuk: dude, I can take you off the whitelist
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: I restore those too
[08:05] <elmo> oh, I promsied to remove a bunch of debian.org addreses, and didn't.. meh
[08:05] <Kamion> that session restore idea sounds ideal for slackers who never change working directory, though ;)
[08:05] <Keybuk> elmo: but then I wouldn't be able to upload myself, *again* :p
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: where I typically have a session open to a remote system, I create a gnome-terminal profile for it, so it restores and logs me in
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: I don't actually take advantage of the cwd thing, but I find it incredibly cool that it does it :-)
[08:24] <mirak> hi
[08:24] <mirak> I ask a question here
[08:24] <mirak> there is a problem with revision of the 2.6.8 kernel on hoary
[08:24] <mirak> with lilo
[08:24] <mirak> lilo won't boot this kernel
[08:25] <mirak> it says the kernel is to big and it overwrites the stack of lilo stage 2
[08:51] <mdz> mirak: grub boots it fine
[08:51] <mirak> mdz, how do I setup grub ?
[08:52] <mirak> I am on knoppix right now chrooted in ubuntu
[08:52] <mdz> mirak: search the web
[08:52] <mdz> generally, grub-install "(hd0)"
[08:52] <mirak> where is the config file ?
[08:52] <Mithrandir> mirak: /boot/grub/menu.lst, but it's read run-time
[08:56] <jdub> hooooly crap
[08:56] <jdub> mdz: around?
[08:57] <mdz> jdub: yep
[08:57] <mdz> I hope that's a good "hooooly crap"
[08:57] <stratus> where's the ubuntu december wallpaper?
[08:57] <jdub> mdz: noticed Matt| raised the "stuff is unmounted" thing
[08:58] <jdub> stratus: already uploaded
[08:58] <mdz> jdub: yeah, what was it that did that? I forget
[08:58] <jdub> mdz: it's happened in two instances i'm aware of atm,
[08:58] <jdub> mdz: both involving unloading the ipw2200 driver
[08:58] <jdub> and switching between my wifi and wired links
[08:59] <jdub> (i unload ipw2200 in interfaces)
[08:59] <Mithrandir> jdub: my desktop does not have any ipw2200 and I saw it a couple of hours ago
[08:59] <Mithrandir> though, I did unload the driver to reset the card.
[08:59] <mdz> fabbione: disabling BLK_DEV_UB fixed my problem
[08:59] <jdub> Mithrandir: aha
[08:59] <stratus> jdub, thanks.
[08:59] <jdub> Mithrandir: yeah, doesn't seem specific to ipw2200, but related to network configuration and driver changes
[09:00] <jdub> Mithrandir: which kernel are you using?
[09:00] <Mithrandir> 2.6.8.1-3
[09:00] <mdz> are you guys using networkmanager or something?
[09:00] <Mithrandir> amd64
[09:00] <mdz> I've never seen this crack
[09:00] <_rene_> Mithrandir: the normal version of libtl built fine, maybe the cp into the tree somehow did not work...
[09:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: not that I know of.
[09:00] <mdz> jdub, Mithrandir anything funny in /etc/network/*.d ?
[09:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't touched that directory.
[09:01] <_rene_> you may want to try to cp -v it and/or objdump -p solver/645/unxlngi4.pro/lib/libtl645li.so to find out
[09:01] <jdub> mdz: haven't touched
[09:01] <Mithrandir> _rene_: is that done in debian/rules or somewhere else?
[09:02] <jdub> just wireless-tools for me
[09:02] <mdz> Mithrandir, jdub: packages install files there; would you just look please? :-P
[09:02] <_rene_> Mithrandir: the cp? in debian/rules
[09:02] <jdub> :) rather
[09:02] <mdz> jdub: what method do you use to switch interfaces when it happens?
[09:02] <Mithrandir> wireless-tools for me too
[09:02] <mdz> ifdown/ifup or something fancier?
[09:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: ifdown + rmmod
[09:03] <Mithrandir> _rene_: ok, I'll use that for tracking it down.  Thanks.
[09:03] <jdub> mdz: first time it happened i used netapplet (which i believe uses ifupdown)
[09:03] <mdz> Mithrandir: you run ifdown and rmmod and your filesystems are unmounted??
[09:03] <mdz> that's insane
[09:04] <jdub> mdz: second time i just used ifupdown manually, but keep in mind that ipw2200 is rmmodded in my interfaces
[09:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't tried to reproduce it, yes.
[09:04] <Mithrandir> s/.$/t/
[09:05] <Mithrandir> and it didn't duplicate now
[09:07] <jdub> i'll try switching to wired
[09:07] <jdub> and test where it happens
[09:08] <jdub> watch "cat /proc/mounts" will break fairly obviously when /proc is unmounted :)
[09:08] <Mithrandir> heh
[09:08] <Mithrandir> hi maswan
[09:08] <maswan> hi there
[09:09] <maswan> finally back on good old kenny
[09:09] <Mithrandir> I fixed up nyu's account
[09:11] <jdub> yeah, did it again
[09:11] <jdub> Mithrandir: can you bring up your network interface again after it happens?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> jdub: yes.
[09:12] <mirak> how to install grub from a running livecd ?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> jdub: note that I'm using the acx_pci driver, not the ipw2200
[09:12] <mirak> on the ubuntu hard disk
[09:12] <jdub> Mithrandir: pity ipw2200 has to have a spew
[09:13] <jdub> now i ahve to reboot ;)
[09:13] <jdub> or be stuck to the network umbilical cord
[09:14] <Mithrandir> jdub: I was taking down the interface to reset it :)
[09:14] <sladen> what's the situation regarding CUPS on localhost:631 wanting the root password?
[09:15] <sladen> (somebody asking on #ubuntu)
[09:15] <Matt|> jdub, sup with that random /proc and /home unmounting stuff?
[09:15] <Matt|> mine happens totally randomly afaics
[09:18] <Matt|> lemme see if i can get it
[09:18] <sivang> sladen : last time I checked, it didn't allow me to log in out of the box, but IMHO the gnome iface works great
[09:21] <jdub> sladen: we haven't fixed it, and chose not to support the web interface yet
[09:21] <jdub> sladen: System Configuration > Printing should work
[09:22] <Matt|> jdub, mdz told me that you have the random /proc and /home unmounting thing too: any idea what causes it
[09:22] <jdub> un oh
[09:22] <jdub> Matt|: see the discussion above
[09:23] <Matt|> hmm k
[09:23] <jdub> hrm
[09:23] <stuNNed> is it possible for mozilla-mplayer and mplayer-custom to crash the whole system in ubuntu hoary?
[09:23] <jdub> mdz: did the dsdt-attached-to-initrd patch get into fabio's 2.6.9?
[09:24] <Matt|> jdub, dunno if that is related to mine: i use a custom module for wifi, and i just reloaded it without difficulty. It seems totally random.
[09:27] <mdz> jdub: no, same reasons. see bugzilla
[09:27] <Matt|> jdub, i have nothing in the /etc/network/*d directories. 
[09:27] <Matt|> oh well
[09:28] <Matt|> lemme know if you want me to test anything
[09:41] <jdub> mdz: so that's a "can't do it unless the kernel guys love it" -> why do we take that stance on this patch in particular?
[09:42] <mdz> jdub: that's our stance on pretty much all intrusive feature patches
[09:42] <mdz> we're not in the business of putting all the world's kernel patches into one tree
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: is there any meeting going on?
[09:43] <mdz> fabbione: meeting?
[09:43] <fabbione> i need to shutdown the server for a few minutes
[09:43] <fabbione> like doc meeting...
[09:43] <mdz> I have no idea
[09:43] <fabbione> ok
[09:43] <fabbione> thanks
[09:43] <fabbione> bbl
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) hrm
[10:42] (mdz/#ubuntu-devel) Kamion: never mind; re-burned and it's chugging along happily
[10:42] (jdub/#ubuntu-devel) we have to educate people to not set the target
[10:43] <jdub> can we make a maintainer group, who can see target, etc.?
[10:43] <mdz> jdub: yeah, I thought that not being able to set it when you file a bug would be enough
[10:43] <mdz> jdub: but people will actually go back to the bug just to set it
[10:44] <jdub> yeah
[10:44] <jdub> persistent!
[10:44] <mdz> not worth bothering with it at this point
[10:44] <jdub> given migration to other systems :)
[10:53] <calc> anyone happen to know why libacl and python bindings are in ubuntu but not the "acl" package itself?
[10:56] <jdub> sounds like an oversight
[10:57] <fabbione> amen
[10:57] <fabbione> 2 new fans for the server are crap
[10:57] <fabbione> they aren't fast enough
[10:59] <fabbione> it's not my lucky day...
[11:00] <fabbione> mdz: did you test the kernel without CONFIG_USB_BLK_UB?
[11:09] <fabbione> night all
[11:12] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[11:12] <mdz> fabbione: it fixed my problem
[11:12] <mdz> however, I seem to have some stability problems with that kernel on my laptop
[11:17] <mdz> seb128: here?
[11:17] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't test on laptop yet
[11:18] <seb128> mdz: yes
[11:18] <mdz> fabbione: actually I didn't notice the problem with your kernel
[11:18] <mdz> fabbione: only the one that I built to test the UB change
[11:18] <fabbione> mdz: do you want to prepare -2? otherwise i will do it tomorrow and include also the last 2 patches from daniels
[11:18] <fabbione> ah
[11:18] <fabbione> HMMMM
[11:18] <mdz> seb128: I think we talked about this before, but how much work would it be to allow totem and totem-xine to be installed in parallel?
[11:18] <mdz> fabbione: I am going to try your kernel again as a test
[11:18] <jdub> mdz: bad idea.
[11:18] <seb128> mdz: not a lot but I don't like the idea
[11:19] <mdz> why?
[11:19] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. please send me a mail with the results if we won't meet when i wake up
[11:19] <jdub> because totem provides a number of binaries that are not easily selectable
[11:19] <seb128> because we need to start renaming exe, making an alternative to the default
[11:19] <seb128> that's making a complicate solution
[11:19] <seb128> with potential problems
[11:19] <mdz> we don't need alternatives
[11:19] <mdz> just rename things which conflict
[11:19] <jdub> (nautilus property tabs, thumbnailer, etc)
[11:19] <jdub> mdz: it's very icky
[11:19] <mdz> the current situation is very icky
[11:20] <seb128> mdz: gnome will search for known components
[11:20] <mdz> no one who actually uses totem regularly uses totem-gstreamer
[11:20] <seb128> mdz: what's icky with the current situation ?
[11:20] <jdub> mdz: totem-gstreamer will be greatly improved in the next release
[11:20] <seb128> so ?
[11:20] <mdz> and removing it causes ubuntu-desktop to be removed
[11:20] <jdub> mdz: and trying to do clever parallel install things will onlyc cause more problems
[11:20] <seb128> I agree with jdub here
[11:20] <mdz> you guys said that about totem-gstreamer before warty, too :-/
[11:20] <jdub> yeah
[11:21] <jdub> and it did improve :)
[11:21] <seb128> I never said that
[11:21] <jdub> this time around, there's one person working very solidly on improving it
[11:21] <seb128> if we don't get gst-ffmpeg people will never be happy with it
[11:21] <jdub> yeah
[11:21] <mdz> that doesn't seem like a big problem
[11:21] <jdub> ffmpeg?
[11:22] <mdz> it has exactly the same issues as totem-xine
[11:22] <seb128> jdub: gst-ffmpeg doesn't do compression, should be as fine as xine ...
[11:22] <seb128> ffmpeg is an another cazse
[11:22] <seb128> case even
[11:23] <mdz> it is packaged someplace already, is it not?
[11:23] <seb128> s/compression/encoding/
[11:23] <seb128> mdz: I've put it on the pkg-gnome repository on alioth
[11:23] <Kamion> calc: I'm here extremely briefly, but leaving again straight away; better if you just say what you want and I'll have a look tomorrow
[11:24] <seb128> mdz: the other solution is to put "totem" in ubuntu-desktop
[11:24] <seb128> totem is totem-gstreamer | totem-xine
[11:24] <jdub> seb128: yeah, good point.
[11:24] <mdz> I thought totem depended on only totem-gstreamer
[11:24] <jdub> nup
[11:25] <seb128> mdz: it's totem-xine | totem-gst for debian
[11:25] <mdz> right
[11:25] <mdz> I thought we changed that in warty
[11:25] <seb128> for the same reason, people wants to depend on totem and let people choice which one that is
[11:25] <mdz> but in hoary at least it is an alternative
[11:25] <jdub> we reversed it
[11:25] <mdz> aha
[11:26] <jdub> i don't mind doing that too much
[11:26] <jdub> at least it's not explicitly making it an option in the meta package
[11:44] <calc> Kamion: not sure if you are still here, but i replied to the bug report you mentioned earlier
[11:59] <jdub> Kamion: ah! i remember the other question i had
[12:00] <jdub> Kamion: if someone has an existing RAID array
[12:00] <jdub> Kamion: can that be started and mounted as /home (eg) in the installer?