[12:06] <pitti> night
[12:14] <mdz> fabbione: I tracked down the stability problem I had with 2.6.9-1; it is unrelated to the UB problem and filed as https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4332
[12:24] <mako> so this poor macedonians are having all kinds of trouble with getting these CDs it seems
[12:25] <mako> the custom officials open the package and see 10 copies of the same cd and just freak out
[12:25] <jdub> heh
[12:27] <jdub> mdz: so, we don't have a component for linux 2.6.9 yet
[12:27] <jdub> mdz: i need inotify kernel headers on the buildds
[12:28] <mdz> jdub: "linux" should be used for all kernel stuff, generally
[12:28] <jdub> mdz: should i make a new component, linux-source...?
[12:28] <jdub> ah, okay
[12:28] <mdz> jdub: you do not need kernel headers on the buildds
[12:28] <trulux> bluefoxicy, ping
[12:28] <trulux> lamont, hey
[12:28] <mdz> jdub: whatever it is, it shouldn't rely on kernel headers on the build system
[12:28] <jdub> hrm
[12:29] <jdub> i don't think it *relies* on them
[12:29] <jdub> no, has a local header for it
[12:31] <lamont> jdub: kernel headers should never be included in user space
[12:31] <lamont> trulux: yo
[12:31] <jdub> it's okay, it has a local copy
[12:33] <trulux> lamont, do you the hardened debian project?
[12:33] <mdz> jdub: perfect
[12:33] <trulux> lamont, i have some documentation you could find interesting, it's at http://wiki.debian-hardened.org/Main_Page
[12:34] <lamont> trulux: I think I may have heard something about it
[12:34] <lamont> will look at the docs
[12:36] <trulux> lamont, fine
[12:36] <trulux> lamont, what job/activy are you taking at Ubuntu?
[12:41] <lamont> trulux: I'm the buildd and general fix-broken-things guy
[12:43] <trulux> lamont, great, if you want i can send you now the tarball with the 0.2 revision, but don't distribute it yet, use it for yur own fun, we will release it after we do some docs and also clean some of the ssp.c routines
[12:44] <lamont> trulux: you going to be in mataro?
[12:49] <trulux> lamont, i think not :( i want to, but i'm 15 years old and it's difficult to say "hey, i'm going to matar, i take my lapto and a few money, see you soon!"
[12:49] <lamont> yeah - that could be a bit of a challenge... :-)
[12:51] <trulux> lamont, yep :(
[12:51] <trulux> lamont, i was in another con with my father, he just left me alone when i was in it, i've the presentation of hardened debian there
[12:51] <trulux> (undercon 8th edition)
[12:52] <trulux> it's the spanish version of the defcon, our hackmeeting is more about political and philosphical terms, the undercon is only about the stuff we work on ;-)
[12:53] <trulux> lamont, i can dcc you the tarball, do you want it?
[12:55] <trulux> i must go to sleep
[12:55] <trulux> too late here
[12:56] <lamont> no dcc here.
[12:57] <trulux> lamont, let me upload them in a sec
[12:57] <lamont> I won't get any chance to look at it until at least mataro
[12:57] <lamont> but wouldn't mind having a copy to look through if I manage to make time for it.
[12:59] <trulux> lamont, ok
[12:59] <trulux> i'm uploading it
[01:01] <trulux> done
[01:01] <lamont> to where?
[01:02] <trulux> lamont, http://lorenzo.debian-hardened.org/debhard/libssp-0.2.tar.gz
[01:02] <trulux> there ;-)
[01:02] <trulux> now i must go to sleep
[01:02] <trulux> hope talk to you tomorrow
[01:02] <trulux> good night!
[01:02] <lamont> later
[01:03] <Sturzflut> it's still beta code
[01:03] <lamont> yeah
[01:33] <tseng> bluefoxicy: public away sucks
[01:33] <Sturzflut> yep
[01:33] <Sturzflut> it's homosexual!
[01:33] <tseng> well, blue is
[01:34] <tseng> but ill leave him be before he starts ranting here too
[01:34] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  someone pinged me
[01:35] <Astharot> good evening
[01:35] <tseng> wait a second, Sturzflut trulux and blue?
[01:35] <tseng> are you guys trolling up hardened debian again
[01:35] <Sturzflut> no :)
[01:36] <Sturzflut> no official support from me :)
[01:37] <bluefoxicy> tseng: I dragged trulux in here to discuss the potential to add -fstack-protector to ubuntu :)
[01:37] <bluefoxicy> since he claims to be close on that
[01:37] <tseng> ok
[01:37] <tseng> id discourage any of the build-by-default patches
[01:37] <bluefoxicy> he's a smart kid; him, flut, and lv have together managed to put the ssp symbols into an external library
[01:38] <tseng> is that working?
[01:38] <bluefoxicy> I have no idea
[01:38] <Sturzflut> tseng: it works
[01:38] <tseng> it was giving duplicates when in libgcc
[01:38] <Sturzflut> I think I'm the first person to actually try it :)
[01:38] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  build-by-default I like
[01:38] <mirak> I got a problem, I can't install grub
[01:38] <mirak> anymore
[01:38] <tseng> bluefoxicy: it doesnt fit outside of gentoo
[01:38] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  There's a specs patch that gets the specs from the environment variable GCC_SPECS
[01:38] <bluefoxicy> tigger^ wrote it
[01:39] <mirak> it says stage1 is corrupted
[01:39] <bluefoxicy> trulux is adding that to hardened debian's GCC
[01:39] <Sturzflut> that's what I'm using now
[01:39] <tseng> yes, that is still not it
[01:39] <Sturzflut> gcc profiles would be nice
[01:39] <tseng> do you guys have a channel we could go to
[01:39] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  vanilla specs can be "default," but the debian maintainer's tools can default to a hardened spec
[01:39] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  #debian-hardened
[01:39] <tseng> thanks
[01:40] <lamont> *(^()*_(^+*^  metacity
[01:42] <lamont> when &*%)%^*( mplayer goes into a loop popping up error boxes, it becomes very problematic to kill it, since it )*&%*^_%*(^%*(^*&  steals focus.
[01:42] <lamont> give me my damn NEVER *&)%*^_(^ STEAL FOCUS option, please
[01:42] <lamont> hrm... seb128 probably wasn't here for that venting...
[01:42] <lamont> jdub?
[01:43] <jdub> yo
[01:43] <Mithrandir> lamont: C-A-F1 ; pkill mplayer
[01:44] <lamont> Mithrandir: if it didn't steal focus, I wouldn't have to bounce out to a vty
[01:45] <Mithrandir> lamont: true enough
[01:45] <jdub> lamont: things have to break before they get better :)
[01:45] <jdub> lamont: file bugs in bugzilla.gnome.org
[01:45] <lamont> jdub: thanks
[01:46] <jdub> lamont: the focus stealing stuff has been in devel for a while now
[01:46] <jdub> lamont: but is only turned back on during devel branch :)
[01:47] <lamont> jdub: they've been doing lots of work to make it smart about when it steals.  All I want is an option that says "never steal focus from the current window".
[01:48] <jdub> in many cases it doesn't
[01:48] <jdub> if you've found a stupid case where it does
[01:48] <jdub> that should be fixed
[01:48] <jdub> if that option is there, it will never be fixed
[01:48] <jdub> ask me to tell you about the window button switcher horrors sometime :)
[01:49] <Fubar> hello
[01:49] <Fubar> how is ubuntu coming along ? :)
[01:49] <lamont> jdub: yeah, all I want is the 'be stupid' option
[01:49] <jdub> lamont: otherwise known as the "never actually fix the problem" option :)
[01:51] <lamont> jdub: when I run an xterm from inside another window, who's to say that I _WANT_ it to take focus.  In fact, I have a case or 3 where I specifically _DON'T_ want focus given to the child window.
[01:51] <lamont> and there is _NO_WAY_ for metacity to know what I'm currently thinking.
[01:51] <lamont> so it's not "never fix the problem", it's "quit trying to read my )*&%*&^P mind"
[01:53] <jdub> lamont: depends on your activity in the former window
[01:53] <lamont> no.
[01:53] <jdub> heh
[01:53] <lamont> in the use case in question, I just ran a script.
[01:53] <lamont> it launches 12 xterms.
[01:53] <lamont> I want focus to stay in the current window
[01:53] <lamont> because I'm not done there
[01:54] <jdub> so if you're not done, and there is activity, hooray for doing the right thing
[01:54] <jdub> also, xterm makes life harder
[01:54] <jdub> so perhaps things that don't grok the standards can be special cased
[01:54] <mdz> Kamion: I don't suppose you're still around
[01:54] <jdub> there are lots of options here beyond reading your mind
[01:54] <lamont> did I mention the sleep 1 after each of the 12 xterm launches?
[01:54] <jdub> you need to write down the use case so someone has a chance of analysing it
[01:54] <lamont> I _WANT_ focus to be under the mouse. period.
[01:55] <lamont> if I _WANT_ it somewhere else, I want to have to move the mouse.
[01:55] <lamont> that use case is specifically and diametrically opposed to metacity's current design
[01:55] <jdub> dude, people have said the same thing about "I _WANT_ the window switcher button applet to be X pixels wide!"
[01:55] <lamont> window switcher button applet?
[01:55] <jdub> suddenly, when it "just works", they stop complaining because they don't even realise there's a problem
[01:56] <jdub> 10:03 < lamont> that use case is specifically and diametrically opposed to
[01:56] <jdub>                 metacity's current design
[01:56] <jdub> ^ "current behaviour"
[01:56] <jdub> that's why we fix things to just work
[01:56] <jdub> if you don't provide use cases, that can't happen
[01:56] <jdub> if we keep making options so we don't have to actually fix the software, that can't happne
[01:57] <lamont> I guess the real issue is that I fail to see that it's a problem. :-)
[01:57] <jdub> sure, the answer might end up being, "we don't believe this use case is important" or "we can't deal with that when you're using xterm"
[01:57] <jdub> dude
[01:57] <jdub> you have a problem with the current behaviour
[01:57] <jdub> that is what we're talking about
[01:57] <jdub> if it weren't a problem, you wouldn't raise it
[01:58] <lamont> I meant I have some difficulty understanding why stealing focus is actually _solving_ a problem.
[01:58] <jdub> dude
[01:58] <jdub> the whole point of the work being done on metacity is "focus stealing avoidance"
[01:59] <lamont> jdub: which is based fundamentally on the decision that stealing focus is a good thing (under the right circumstances)
[01:59] <jdub> yes, absolutley
[01:59] <jdub> when i run an application
[01:59] <jdub> i expect to be able to type into it
[01:59] <jdub> without changing the focus
[01:59] <jdub> however, when i run an application and am still doing things elsewhere,
[01:59] <lamont> so my read of it is "we've decided to break things in the general case because we think this is a neat feature, and now we're going to special case the hell out of things for where we have to agree that it's a bad thing"
[01:59] <jdub> i don't really want it stealing the focus
[01:59] <jdub> no
[02:00] <lamont> ah, therein lies the difference.
[02:00] <lamont> when I run an application, I expect to move the mouse into that window before I type.
[02:00] <lamont> That's why I have FOCUS=MOUSE.
[02:00] <jdub> okay, so imagine you have a bug in a piece of software
[02:00] <jdub> like ls
[02:00] <jdub> it works under strace
[02:00] <jdub> but never works on its own
[02:00] <jdub> so you decide that it's easier for people to run it in strace
[02:00] <jdub> instead of fixing the bug
[02:01] <jdub> when it comes to behavioural bugs
[02:01] <lamont> jdub: I decided that it's easier for _ME_ to run it that way.
[02:01] <jdub> it is better to fix the problem than provide an option to 'unbreak me'
[02:01] <lamont> the whole thing is about letting the user _DECIDE_ how he wants it to behave/
[02:01] <lamont> and I can'
[02:01] <lamont> t
[02:01] <jdub> oh man
[02:01] <jdub> right
[02:01] <jdub> now i have to tell you about the window switcher buttons
[02:02] <jdub> during the gnome 2.0 development process
[02:02] <jdub> all the options for the window list were removed
[02:02] <jdub> and work began on making it 'just work'
[02:02] <jdub> there was a massive, massive flamewar
[02:03] <jdub> because people used the options to make it work correctly
[02:03] <lamont> I can see that
[02:03] <jdub> in various use cases
[02:03] <jdub> after about two months
[02:03] <jdub> the flamewar died down
[02:04] <jdub> this was before there was a general understanding of how to do 'just works' development
[02:04] <jdub> so no one actually realised that it had improved to such an extent that it did the right thing
[02:04] <jdub> and wasn't punching them in the face
[02:04] <jdub> so they didn't think to complain
[02:05] <jdub> so if the focus issues in metacity are punching you in the face,
[02:05] <jdub> you need to explain your use cases
[02:05] <jdub> so they can be taken into account
[02:05] <lamont> right.
[02:05] <jdub> even if you think they're totally impossible to handle
[02:06] <lamont> my use case is 15? years of having whatever window is under the mouse be the one that has focus.  period.
[02:06] <lamont> yeah - it's not what the new user wants.  But it's what my brain is trained to.
[02:06] <lamont> and hands
[02:06] <jdub> because seriously, those window list option removals made "using gnome impossible" for so many people... until it just worked.
[02:07] <jdub> lamont: i'm not going to solve your problem, but consider a change in behaviour in sloppy focus mode.
[02:07] <lamont> so when an app pops up a window and that suddenly has focus clear across the screen until I either (1) leave and reenter the current window, or (2) left click, then it messes with my head
[02:07] <jdub> lamont: this is not impossible.
[02:07] <jdub> if you think it's impossible, your brain is closed to clever ways to fix it.
[02:08] <lamont> jdub: I still move the mouse across the screen to the (now focused) window.
[02:08] <sivang> jdub,lamont : what bug# are you discussing?
[02:08] <lamont> I expect that with time, I'll untrain 15 years of training, but that's a productivity pain in the meantime
[02:08] <jdub> there's no bug#
[02:08] <jdub> lamont: i don't think you're listening. :)
[02:08] <lamont> sivang: the bug is that I expect focus to remain under the mouse at all times, and metacity is being smart.
[02:09] <jdub> no dude
[02:09] <jdub> that's not the bug
[02:09] <lamont> jdub: you're saying that metacity could/should be taught to better understand when it should move focus to the new window.  I understand that.
[02:09] <sivang> jdub : Oh, you mean where ever you put the moust there should be the focus set?
[02:09] <jdub> by explaining it that way, you're ignoring behaviour
[02:09] <lamont> sivang: that's how I've operated since X10.
[02:10] <lamont> jdub: OK.  metacity should better understand when it should not move focus to the new window.
[02:10] <eruin> you guys ever tried rightclicking the desktop, opening a terminal, then doing the same thing again?
[02:10] <eruin> none of the windows have focus.
[02:10] <lamont> eruin: under metacity, the last terminal launched has focus
[02:10] <eruin> the first terminal gets focus, but when you open the second one - none of them get it
[02:11] <lamont> not here
[02:11] <jdub> the terminal is not getting focus here
[02:11] <jdub> only when i move the mouse over it
[02:11] <eruin> mine doesn't get focus until I click it
[02:12] <jdub> lamont: ... so you're talking about warty's metacity?
[02:12] <lamont> jdub: is the second phrasing more consistant with what you want me to say?
[02:12] <lamont> yeah
[02:12] <jdub> sheeeeesh
[02:12] <jdub> dude
[02:12] <lamont> jdub: but either way....
[02:12] <jdub> no
[02:12] <jdub> not either wya
[02:12] <lamont> When metacity should better understand when it should not move focus to the new window? never. (my use case)
[02:12] <jdub> it is specifically not enabled in warty's metacity
[02:13] <lamont> huh???
[02:13] <lamont> it==??
[02:13] <jdub> the focus stealing prevention changes
[02:13] <lamont> ok.  I'll bitch after I upgrade.
[02:13] <eruin> what metacity should do (imo anyway) is give focus to user-opened windows by default, _unless_ the user started using another window while the opened window was still being opened
[02:14] <mirak> anyone know where I can find the 2.6.8 kernel that was used before beeing updated ?
[02:14] <lamont> (apt-get -udy dist-upgrade finally finished... that is to say, the local mirror finally came current.)
[02:14] <mdz> mirak: there never was a 2.6.8 in Ubuntu; we started with 2.6.8.1
[02:14] <mirak> it was updated with dis-upgrade but I have troubles with it
[02:14] <mirak> mdz, 2.6.8.1 yes
[02:14] <mirak> mdz, 2.6.8.1-3
[02:14] <Fubar> question for ubuntu developers:  Does Ubuntu have any plans to coordinate issues with the hardware manufacturers if they provide their own drivers? 
[02:14] <eruin> I'm sure I saw my 2.6.8.1-kernel get upgraded last week or so
[02:14] <mdz> Fubar: yes
[02:14] <mirak> mdz, it was just changed two days ago
[02:15] <mirak> I need the old version
[02:15] <mirak> lilo can't boot the new one, and I have problems with grub
[02:15] <Fubar> mdz:  See i had an issue for my video system, and im not sure if its an x or driver bug 
[02:15] <mdz> mirak: unless you're on sparc, it hasn't had any significant changes since 2004-11-02
[02:15] <mirak> mdz, or I could use warty 2.6.8
[02:15] <eruin> well there be an athlon(xp)-specific kernel or is that pointless (ie there wouldn't be any gain from k7)
[02:15] <eruin> will*
[02:15] <mirak> mdz, it was updated two days ago
[02:15] <Fubar> mdz:  i reported it and daniel thought it was due to the video card drivers... 
[02:16] <mdz> mirak: <mdz> mirak: unless you're on sparc, it hasn't had any significant changes since 2004-11-02
[02:16] <Fubar> said he was making changes to upstream
[02:16] <Fubar> but that there was nothing he could do
[02:16] <mirak> mdz, significant dosn't mean no change
[02:16] <Fubar> so all these issues i take it go back into the system to see if they can be fixed later on right ?
[02:16] <mirak> mdz, I told you it was dist upgraded two days ago
[02:16] <mdz> mirak: for i386, it was a recompile
[02:16] <mdz> zero code changes
[02:16] <mirak> mdz, then something changed
[02:17] <mirak> I don't know what
[02:17] <Fubar> ubuntu very nice on balance for linux distro
[02:17] <mirak> maybe some options where changed
[02:17] <mdz> probably an issue with your initrd; this really isn't the place to discuss it
[02:17] <mirak> mdz, if you don't use lilo you probably not noticed it
[02:17] <mirak> why not
[02:18] <mdz>  /topic
[02:18] <mirak> i didn't got another answer than reinstall the system
[02:18] <eruin> is there a mailing list I could follow to know things like why nvidia 6629 isn't in restricted yet, etc?
[02:18] <mirak> on #ubuntu
[02:18] <mdz> eruin: ubuntu-devel
[02:18] <eruin> cheers
[02:18] <mirak> mdz, I just need to know what changed that's all
[02:19] <mdz> mirak: I've told you, and you don't believe me
[02:19] <Mithrandir> eruin: it has issues; stability among them, iirc.
[02:19] <mdz> there is nothing more I can do to help you
[02:19] <mirak> mdz, the initrd problem ?
[02:20] <mirak> pfff
[02:24] <mira1> mdz: ok, I managed to boot with lilo
[02:24] <mira1> I don't exactly what make it work
[02:25] <mira1> I have increased the ramdisk size option, used text mode for lilo and reduced frame buffer resolution
[02:25] <mira1> what's the best bet ? :)
[02:26] <sivang> btw, has anyone seen the segfault with unmounting fs when power off? this happens to me every time I shutdown both on hoary in the laptop and the desktop machine.
[02:26] <eruin> would using offical nvidia packages be problematic in hoary?
[02:27] <eruin> sivang: yes, i get that too
[02:27] <eruin> or rather "egmentation fault" <-- cute ;)
[02:27] <eruin> started happening pretty recently
[02:28] <sivang> eruin : yeah, hehe,  on my desktop it somehow shuts down the HD and restart it about 2 times before actually managing to shutdown
[02:28] <jdub> sivang: #4333?
[02:28] <sivang> jdub : checking :)
[02:30] <eruin> looks the same
[02:30] <eruin> I get a message about "none busy" before the segfault, and no "/ is busy" though
[02:30] <jdub> might want to add a comment saying it's happening in ubuntu too
[02:31] <Mithrandir> is it possible to get gnome to always save the configuration when logging out?
[02:31] <sivang> jdub : exactly.
[02:31] <jdub> Mithrandir: gnome-session-properties
[02:32] <Mithrandir> ah, great.
[02:32] <Mithrandir> now I just need to clean up a bit and this will be all happiness
[02:32] <jdub> also, gnome-session-save --gui
[02:32] <jdub> run that from the applications menu
[02:32] <jdub> when you're set up nicely
[02:34] <lamont> jdub: so what all am I breaking with this upgrade, anyway?
[02:34] <sivang> jdub : when choosing "save settings on logout" that also saves sessino settings right? at least it did on sarge..
[02:34] <eruin> that saves nicely here
[02:35] <jdub> yes it does
[02:35] <jdub> lamont: to hoary? not a huge amount
[02:35] <jdub> lamont: i don't imagine you use evo :)
[02:35] <lamont> what's that?
[02:35] <lamont> :-)
[02:35] <jdub> heh
[02:36] <sivang> evo has become more stable the past couple of days,
[02:37] <sivang> however mutt supersedes it alot
[02:39] <eruin> right, off to upgrade nvidia.. I might just be back ;)
[02:39] <mirak> ok, the problem was probably the menu mode in lilo
[02:41] <sivang> jdub : btw, just wanted to tell you - hoary is superbo in this machine ever since I remaoved hal , as just disabling the media detection option did not always work. :) it's plain pleasure at 1400x1050
[02:41] <jdub> sivang: try installing the new version
[02:42] <sivang> jdub : on the latest upgrade?
[02:42] <jdub> yeah
[02:42] <jdub> 0.4.2
[02:42] <sivang> jfub : k, I'll check, is there comments on the bug fix somwhere? our bugzilla/gnome's ?
[02:43] <sladen> sivang: you removed hal?!
[02:43] <jdub> sivang: see the changelog
[02:43] <sivang> sladen : yes :) But I have already installed 0.4.2 by now :)
[02:44] <sivang> jdub : let's see if this works this time on single IDE busses machines..:)
[02:46] <Mithrandir> does metacity do emacs-style chains of shortcuts?
[02:47] <Mithrandir> So C-M-p leftarrow grows to the left, while C-M-p rightarrow grows to the right?
[03:10] <eruin> 6111: glxgears~2100.. 6629: glxgears~2600 :D
[03:29] <srbaker> yo
[03:56] <lamont> istr the old metacity actually dropping windows back in the correct workspace...
[03:56] <lamont> or am I misremembering?
[03:58] <Mithrandir> it did
[04:03] <lamont>   dimensions:    1792x1344 pixels (361x271 millimeters) at 126 dpi.  just plain strange.
[05:15] <bluefoxicy> anyone know if you need to put in your phone number to shipit?
[05:15] <mdz> some shipping companies require it
[05:16] <mdz> you won't get phone calls from us, that's certain
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  do you know if shipping to the US requires it?
[05:17] <mdz> bluefoxicy: no, I don't
[05:17] <bluefoxicy> will updating the info update previous orders that weren't yet shipped?
[05:18] <mdz> if it's required, I imagine mako would have shipit reject requests which didn't include a phone number
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> k
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> well it didn't reject me but of course can't track individual order status
[05:18] <bluefoxicy> any ideas how long this is gonna take to ship?  I ordered yesterday, rough estimate or 'We do 'em in fixed size batches and you're qued"?
[05:20] <jdub> calc: nice blog entry. :)
[05:21] <calc> :)
[05:21] <calc> i think i annoyed some kde people reading planetkde ;)
[05:21] <calc> it was the top headline on there for over 12hr
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> can I see?  :P
[05:21] <calc> http://www.cheney.cx/site/blog/
[05:24] <bluefoxicy> heh
[05:24] <bluefoxicy> I want to see a desktop environment like MediaPortal
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> i.e. it takes over your screen XD
[05:25] <mdz> bluefoxicy: they're done in batches of course, but I'm fairly sure the batches include some padding, so I really can't say
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> i just think it'd be neat to have windows docked every which way
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  ok
[05:25] <mdz> my order (queued before the Warty release) arrived this week
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> so, month or two?
[05:25] <mdz> I can't say
[05:26] <calc> i got mine last week also
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> when hoary comes out I should talk to my college and show them a warty live cd
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> and ask them if they want to hand them out free
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> if they say yes I'mma order 1000 :P
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> (of hoary)
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> I wonder if they'd actually ship them, or if they'd reject the order, or contact me and ask wtf
[05:27] <calc> heh
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> "1000?!  DUDE we do this FREE >:("  ". . but my college said they'd hand them out. . . "  " o_o  oh, nm then"
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> of course
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> the CDs are very pretty
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> so you'd get people thinking it was AOL 10.0
[05:28] <bluefoxicy> and they'd try to install it
[05:29] <mdz> we will ask for confirmation if you request a huge number of CDs
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> and call AOL, complaining that AOL erased their hard disks
[05:29] <mdz> some people do it just to see what will happen
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  to prevent against typos and. . yeah, and idiots :P
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> dun worry
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> I ordered ~20 because I figured it'd be within limits of "Shipping costs more than the CDs so order a lot"
[05:29] <bluefoxicy> I'll try to hand them out though
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> if they vanish I'm ordering more next time; if I can get a school or college to hand 'em out I might make a fairly large order
[05:30] <tseng> i asked our lug coordinator to get a batch
[05:30] <tseng> since it still seems to be open
[05:30] <bluefoxicy> but I'm not ordering excess I don't think I can get distributed.
[05:30] <calc> sets in low quantity are about $1-2/ea hopefully they are getting discount
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> calc:  hopefully they can get tax breaks for it
[05:31] <calc> they have no profit to tax break for do they? ;)
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> eh.
[05:32] <bluefoxicy> I thought canonical was a for-profit organizatoin
[05:32] <mdz> correct
[05:32] <calc> hmm maybe so, i didn't see anything that would make them money though
[05:33] <mdz> it's explained on the website
[05:33] <mdz> on the front page, even
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> well
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> they're for profit
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> which means they either make money, or they die.
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> you don't stay around for-profit and not make profit
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> then again, I'm fairly business minded
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> but I'm fairly certain that businesses that are created to make money don't stay long if they lose money . . .
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> anyway
[05:35] <calc> on the front page of the canonical site?
[05:36] <jdub> calc: yes
[05:36] <jdub> calc: support and professional services
[05:36] <calc> ah ok :)
[05:41] <bluefoxicy> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/usn/usn-1-1  does this relate to http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA04-217A.html (which included an exploitable buffer overflow CAN-2004-0597)?
[05:44] <lamont> pornview now segv's.  such a pitty
[06:24] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:24] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[06:24] <lamont> fabbione: why does pornview segv on hoary/xorg?
[06:25] <fabbione> lamont: dunno.. i actually need to change the fan on server cpu and probably i will crash again because i still don't feel too good today
[06:25] <lamont> heh
[06:25] <fabbione> but today is tha last chance to get it fixed
[06:26] <fabbione> otherwise it will have to stay in degraded mode until i am not back from mataro
[06:26] <fabbione> bbl
[07:07] <fabbione> re
[07:07] <Treenaks> wb
[07:07] <fabbione> let's hope this one will last
[07:08] <fabbione> let's give a big spin to the cpu
[07:11] <Treenaks> stupid bus :)
[07:18] <mdz> lamont: mail received, good luck
[07:19] <mdz> fabbione: when do you leave for Spain?
[07:21] <fabbione> mdz: sunday afternoon
[07:21] <fabbione> i should be in Mataro around 19:45 local time
[07:22] <fabbione> mdz: did you test the kernel?
[07:22] <fabbione> i didn't see anything from you in my inbox
[07:23] <fabbione> mdz: is there anything urgent you need me to do before coming down?
[07:23] <fabbione> i am still not sure i can handle an entire day
[07:23] <mdz> fabbione: take it easy, you don't want to travel ill
[07:24] <mdz> rest if you need it
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: yeah i know..
[07:24] <fabbione> it
[07:24] <fabbione> it's just that i get bored as hell in bed
[07:24] <mdz> fabbione: I mentioned to you on here that I tracked down the problem I was having
[07:24] <fabbione> and now i have wireless at home :-)
[07:24] <mdz> fabbione: it was unrelated to the UB problem
[07:24] <mdz> but is a regression from 2.6.8.1
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: i don't read irc backlog
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: what problem is that?
[07:24] <mdz> fabbione: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4332
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: cool... nice track down
[07:26] <stuNNed> re
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: i have usb here and i can give it a shot
[07:26] <fabbione> it might be strictly driver related, because i didn't notice it
[07:26] <mdz> happens to me with my DVD writer
[07:26] <mdz> happens to the upstream bug reporter with a camera
[07:27] <mdz> I'm using ehci_hcd
[07:27] <fabbione> i have a usb harddisk
[07:27] <fabbione> ahhh no
[07:27] <fabbione> i am using "usb1"
[07:27] <fabbione> the other driver
[07:27] <mdz> uhci_hcd?
[07:27] <fabbione> yeah i think it's called that way
[07:28] <fabbione> i will give it a shot on the other box where i have usb2
[07:28] <fabbione> and see how it goes
[07:28] <mdz> you may need to plug it in a couple of times
[07:28] <mdz> it happens to me i I turn it on and then off
[07:28] <fabbione> ok
[07:28] <mdz> that guy's camera probably isn't usb2
[07:30] <mako> bluefoxicy, mdz: shipping everywhere is *better* with the phone number. high priority orders do, at nominally, require numbers
[07:30] <fabbione> mdz: i will check later
[07:31] <fabbione> right now i am stressing the server cpu to see if it crashes
[07:31] <fabbione> i need to be sure that fucker can survive 15 days without me
[09:11] <fabbione> bah
[09:12] <fabbione> now.. 2 fan in serial + 2 in parallel
[09:12] <fabbione> if that's not enough to cool down that cpu, i really have no idea what to do
[09:20] <pitti> fabbione: do you happen to have an USB stick?
[09:20] <fabbione> pitti: no. i gave mine to Mithrandir 
[09:20] <fabbione> i have a usb harddisk
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: kernel 2.6.9 now doesn't produce sda1 devices any more, but uba1 (e. g. )
[09:21] <fabbione> yes we knoe
[09:21] <fabbione> know
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: in general this works fine, but I cannot do mkfs.vfat on them any more
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: it says "cannot determine disk geometry"
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: does that happen with your usb hd as well?
[09:21] <fabbione> pitti: and i am not going to make mkfs.vfat on that harddisk
[09:22] <pitti> fabbione: no spare partition? Okay :-)
[09:22] <fabbione> pitti: we know that there are bugs in usb with 2.6.9
[09:22] <pitti> fabbione: worth filing a bug?
[09:22] <fabbione> mdz tracked down one of them
[09:22] <fabbione> pitti: no. they are already in kernel bugzilla
[09:22] <pitti> okay
[09:22] <fabbione> i can do a read only test
[09:22] <fabbione> that's all i can help with
[09:23] <fabbione> anyway.. i am back to sleep
[09:23] <fabbione> i still don't feel too good and i need to recover before Mataro
[09:24] <Treenaks> fabbione: good luck
[09:24] <fabbione> thanks Treenaks 
[09:36] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[09:36] <Keybuk> morning
[10:21] <Keybuk> seb128: so, Evolution's mail compose window is missing most of its toolbar icons
[10:21] <Keybuk> is this a known bug?
[10:21] <seb128> somebody else has reported it
[10:21] <seb128> and I've no problem here and no idea on the bug atm
[10:21] <Keybuk> hmm
[10:22] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/look-no-toolbar.png
[10:22] <Keybuk> ^ that's what I get
[10:22] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4253
[10:23] <Keybuk> oddness
[10:23] <Keybuk> looks like a bonoboui bug to me
[10:23] <seb128> to me too
[10:24] <seb128> but bonobo* has not changed for a while now
[10:24] <seb128> Keybuk: you only have this bug since evo 2.1.1 ?
[10:24] <seb128> the previous libbonoboui upload is almost 3 months old
[10:25] <Keybuk> yah, noticed it this morning after upgrade
[10:26] <Keybuk> so probably not bonoboui then :)
[10:27] <pitti> Hi mvo
[10:31] <mvo> hi pitti
[10:31] <seb128> Keybuk: do you have any kind of error in the console ?
[10:36] <Keybuk> (evolution:5006): Gdk-WARNING **: GdkWindow is too large to allow the use of shape masks or shape regions.
[10:43] <seb128> weird
[10:43] <seb128> do you have the composite extension on or something (just try to think on what could be different) ?
[10:44] <Keybuk> not that I'm aware
[10:44] <seb128> ok
[10:44] <seb128> no idea on the problem right now, perhaps a gtk+ problem
[10:44] <Keybuk> I have "Text beside icons" set
[10:45] <Keybuk> if it were GTK+, I'd expect it to affect other apps
[10:45] <Keybuk> or even the evolution main window
[10:48] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=68321
[10:48] <seb128> was a similar issue due to gtk
[10:49] <Keybuk> in fact, it's *only* the "compose" window too
[10:49] <Keybuk> all the other evo windows with toolbars work
[10:50] <seb128> and which resolution are you using ?
[10:50] <Keybuk> 1024x768
[10:52] <seb128> no problem in 1024x768 here ...
[10:53] <seb128> let's package the new gtk+, perhaps it'll fix the problem :p
[10:56] <Keybuk> maybe
[10:56] <Keybuk> could be a behaviour-dep
[11:02] <daniels> thom: any chance I could convince you to update your dbus packages with the current packaging?
[11:09] <pitti> jdub: inotify rocks!!!
[11:10] <Treenaks> is there an inotify kernel somewhere in ubuntu then?
[11:10] <pitti> Treenaks: 2.6.9-1, yes
[11:11] <pitti> Let's thank fabbione  for this wonderful piece of work
[11:11] <Treenaks> he's asleep, trying to get better before mataro
[11:13] <jdub> pitti: :-)
[11:14] <pitti> Treenaks: the kernel has bitten him seriously, I'm afraid
[11:14] <Treenaks> still
[11:14] <Treenaks> hm
[11:15] <Treenaks> apt tells me restricted-modules is not available yet?
[11:16] <jdub> pitti: you might like this bug
[11:16] <jdub> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4270
[11:16] <daniels> Treenaks: no, i did it for 2.6.8.1 (along with a few patches to linux-source), so i got landed it for 2.6.9.  looking at it now, just waiting for bandwidth to be freed up again.
[11:16] <Treenaks> daniels: ah ok
[11:17] <pitti> jdub: how ugly...
[11:17] <Treenaks> daniels: same with the "dummy package that always depends on the latest version" stuff?
[12:01] <fabbione> daniels: what do you mean you are doing -2 with the asm stuff?
[12:01] <daniels> fabbione: remember how I told you that we needed to ship asm-*, not just asm-$(ARCH)?
[12:01] <daniels> fabbione: and gave you the updated find stuff
[12:02] <daniels> fabbione: i can't upload l-r-m until that's in
[12:02] <fabbione> daniels: yes i remember, but hold on a sec
[12:03] <daniels> ok
[12:04] <fabbione> are you modifying debian/post-install ?
[12:05] <fabbione> daniels: ?
[12:05] <daniels> yes
[12:06] <daniels> so it grabs asm-* rather than asm-{generic,$(ARCH)}
[12:06] <fabbione> what else do you have in the changelog?
[12:06] <daniels> right now, nothing
[12:06] <daniels> but might be grabbing a patch to fix futex hangs
[12:07] <Kamion> how much of a size increase is there to grabbing asm-*?
[12:07] <fabbione> i think i did add something about futex...
[12:08] <fabbione> daniels: i have some other changes pending.. like including the last 2 patches you gave to me
[12:08] <daniels> Kamion: a reasonable amount, I'd imagine
[12:08] <fabbione> daniels: and possibly changing one config option about USB_BLK_DEV
[12:08] <daniels> Kamion: (how many people have l-h installed tho?)
[12:08] <Kamion> daniels: it's on the CD
[12:08] <Kamion> (hence why I care)
[12:08] <fabbione> daniels: in any case 2.6.9 won't be the default kernel for a while
[12:08] <daniels> Kamion: so, um, between all the architectures and flavours -- a lot
[12:09] <Kamion> fabbione: uh ... the installer has already switched
[12:09] <fabbione> Kamion: it has a bunch of regressions that we need to sort out first
[12:09] <fabbione> usb storage is basically foobar
[12:09] <jdub> fabbione: if it's not default, it won't be tested
[12:09] <daniels> Kamion: i'll tell you when I have debs built
[12:09] <fabbione> jdub: please agree with mdz on this, not with me
[12:09] <Kamion> fabbione: oh. does that mean that my attempts to make USB installations work now are toast?
[12:09] <fabbione> jdub: he decided so.. not me
[12:10] <fabbione> Kamion: possibly
[12:10] <Kamion> fabbione: or does it depend on my hardware?
[12:10] <fabbione> Kamion: it depends what driver your hardware needs
[12:10] <fabbione> Kamion: mdz has problems with ehci_whatevername
[12:10] <fabbione> and he is not the only one
[12:10] <Kamion> oh, so maybe USB 1.1 is OK
[12:10] <fabbione> probably uhci is working fine
[12:10] <carlos> seb128: ping
[12:11] <fabbione> daniels: if we ship asm-* for kernel-headers, wouldn't be possible to make it arch: all? or do we still need some arch specific bits in it?
[12:12] <daniels> i suppose we could have linux-headers-2.6.9-1-asm as arch:all
[12:12] <daniels> Kamion: out of curiousity, why's it on the cd?
[12:12] <Kamion> daniels: so people can build third-party modules they need to access the network
[12:13] <daniels> Kamion: ahr
[12:13] <Kamion> it's for convenience; it's been quite popular
[12:13] <fabbione> hmmmm
[12:13] <elmo> I thought l-k-h had arch specific stuff that was generated at build time?
[12:13] <fabbione> elmo: that's what we need to check
[12:13] <daniels> elmo: talking about lh, not lkh
[12:14] <daniels> but yes, that's what I'm looking at now, is whether asm-* gets stomped on at build-time
[12:14] <daniels> istr asm-* being safely arch:all, but linux/ being specific
[12:14] <Kamion> linux/ contains stuff like config.h
[12:14] <daniels> right
[12:15] <elmo> a tar.gz of asm* is only 3Mb - is that a big deal?
[12:15] <fabbione> daniels: it would require a bunch of changes
[12:17] <daniels> fabbione: go on
[12:17] <daniels> elmo: ah, that's pretty good
[12:17] <fabbione> daniels: yes i am checking...
[12:18] <fabbione> linux-headers-2.6.9-1 contains asm-generic
[12:18] <fabbione> and all the common files for linux-headers-2.6.9-1-$flavour
[12:18] <daniels> so we could presumably shuffle asm-* into there
[12:18] <fabbione> linux-headers-2.6.9-1-$flavour contains the specific $flavour bits
[12:19] <fabbione> with symlinks to linux-headers-2.6.9-1
[12:19] <Kamion> elmo: not bad
[12:19] <fabbione> hmmm no
[12:19] <fabbione> just a second...
[12:20] <daniels> fabbione: if you don't want 1642, i'm going to close it
[12:20] <fabbione> lrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2004-12-01 17:57:11 ./usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.9-1-686/include/asm-i386 -> ../../linux-headers-2.6.9-1/inc
[12:20] <fabbione> daniels: you can include all the asm into linux-headers-2.6.9-1
[12:21] <fabbione> and create the proper symlinks in linux-headers-2.6.9-1-$flavour
[12:21] <fabbione> that would increase the package of 1/2MB
[12:21] <fabbione> in only one package
[12:21] <fabbione> Kamion: would that be acceptable?
[12:21] <daniels> fabbione: that's what I'm suggesting
[12:22] <fabbione> daniels: sorry.. i understood that you were going to stick them into -$flavour
[12:23] <fabbione> daniels: since they are $flavour indipendent it's ok with me
[12:23] <fabbione> size wise too
[12:23] <Kamion> fabbione: as far as CD size goes, sure, haven't really thought about the rest
[12:23] <Kamion> although I might hold you down in Mataro until you find 2MB of savings elsewhere :-)
[12:24] <fabbione> daniels: let's make -2 with only that change and please show me an interdiff before you upload (since for a few weeks i will be the kernel maintainer)
[12:24] <fabbione> Kamion: ehhehe this is only thanks to that r3str1ct3d-m0dul35
[12:24] <daniels> fabbione: do you want me to do the two modules as well?
[12:24] <daniels> after all, i did them for .8.1 ...
[12:25] <fabbione> daniels: no because i have them merged here already
[12:25] <fabbione> daniels: and i want to prepare a -3 with other stuff too once we are in mataro
[12:27] <daniels> if you say so
[12:32] <Kamion> lamont: nah, I need to upload another debian-installer to fix that it seems :(
[12:35] <daniels> fabbione: btw, I don't think we get enough information out of xorg
[12:35] <daniels> to do configure
[12:36] <Kamion> too ... many ... revision ... control ... repositories
[12:36] <fabbione> daniels: uhm?
[12:37] <daniels> fabbione: to do configuration with X -configure
[12:37] <daniels> i don't think it gives us enough information
[12:38] <Kamion> elmo: can I have iso-scan and load-iso in main? need them for bootable USB installation; seeding now
[12:38] <fabbione> daniels: probably not, but you can still cross check some of the results to see which one appears to be better
[12:39] <daniels> fabbione: like, it won't give us DDC results
[12:39] <daniels> DDC/panel data/whatever
[12:39] <jdub> Kamion: have you looked at the skole SNS stuff much?
[12:39] <Kamion> jdub: SNS?
[12:39] <fabbione> daniels: we should ask people to give it a shot in mataro
[12:39] <fabbione> daniels: and collect logs and results
[12:40] <elmo> Kamion: python-parted was rendered uninstallable by the promotion of the experimental parted, btw
[12:40] <elmo> kamion: done
[12:40] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, I know, it's one of the things I'm looking at today
[12:40] <Kamion> there's a bunch of ABI change stuff :(
[12:40] <elmo> ok, cool
[12:40] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[12:41] <Kamion> elmo: needs source changes in fact :-/
[12:41] <jdub> Kamion: skole network setup or whatever
[12:42] <Kamion> jdub: no ... I thought pretty much all of Skole was in d-i though
[12:42] <jdub> Kamion: their changes to d-i to do automated network/server/client setups
[12:42] <elmo> kamion: ah, not so cool
[12:42] <Kamion> if I know Joey, that's going to be a big preseed file. :-)
[12:43] <Kamion> elmo: shouldn't be hard, but ... sigh
[12:44] <Matt|> jdub, just got another random /proc unmount
[12:46] <doko> elmo: I'm unable to reproduce #4147 and #4141 anymore on current hoary. the tclsh doesn't segfault anymore. requeue for build?
[12:46] <elmo> no
[12:47] <elmo> it's very reproduceable on the buildds last I checked
[12:48] <elmo> I'll check again
[12:49] <doko> thanks, maybe #4141 as well, which is ok for me as well.
[12:51] <Matt|> jdub, is it ok if I file a bug for this /proc and /home unmounting thing?
[12:51] <jdub> Matt|: there's a bug already
[12:51] <Matt|> jdub, i can't find it
[12:51] <Matt|> jdub, you know the #?
[12:52] <elmo> /bin/sh: line 1: 27764 Segmentation fault      tclsh ./www/lang.tcl >lang.html
[12:52] <elmo> make[1] : *** [lang.html]  Error 139
[12:54] <jdub> Matt|: #4300
[12:54] <Matt|> jdub, oh. i figured that couldn't be it :)
[12:55] <Matt|> ok yeah that's it
[12:55] <Matt|> thanks
[12:59] <robtaylor> carlos: do you want to schedule a time to talk about accessd in mataro, or should we play it by ear?
[01:00] <carlos> robtaylor: I don't know how will I have my schedule
[01:00] <carlos> robtaylor: I suppose it will be better the second week
[01:01] <robtaylor> carlos: well, i'm only there from 9th to 13th. on the 10th i have LiveCD and debian-women bof, but apart from that not much..
[01:02] <carlos> hmm
[01:02] <robtaylor> also, who else would be intersted?
[01:03] <carlos> robtaylor: will try to give you an answer on Monday, after we do some plans about the work there, ok?
[01:03] <robtaylor> carlos: ok :) np
[01:04] <robtaylor> i've been making up some diagrams to show possible modes of use, its slow going tho =)
[01:08] <carlos> robtaylor: ok
[01:33] <eruin> latest mount fixes #4333?
[01:35] <eruin> nm
[01:41] <Kamion> elmo: python-parted patch written, but it's an API change so I'm contacting upstream first
[01:44] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok, doing a new install test with a random daily amd64 iso. It suddenly became a priority to get a disk free.
[01:59] <elmo> god damn it, it's segfaulting on exit
[02:03] <fabbione> elmo: what is segfaulting?
[02:04] <elmo> #4141, #4147
[02:05] <fabbione> amen
[02:09] <fabbione> si bhe
[02:09] <fabbione> ops
[02:18] <fabbione> hey lamont
[02:18] <fabbione> lamont: are you in a hurry?
[02:23] <lamont> fabbione: I have about -3 minutes.
[02:23] <lamont> sup?
[02:25] <lamont> fabbione: I'll poke my nose back in before I leave, but will be gone before the hour, probably for 4-5 hours or more.
[02:25] <lamont> back in a few, then gone - feel free to spew here or in private.
[02:26] <fabbione> lamont: ok nothing important
[02:26] <fabbione> i found a little bug in the env_cmnd feature
[02:26] <fabbione> but generally it is working
[02:28] <elmo> doko: okay, so in fact it is reproduceable both in hoary _and_ Debian unstable, however, I strongly suspect it's like the gzip bug, and you need to be running a 2.6 kernel on an SMP box to be able to reproduce
[02:32] <doko> hmm, sorry I don't have a SMP box, but I'm running a smp kernel on a P4.
[02:35] <elmo> doko: you can use macaroni
[02:36] <doko> elmo: would prefer tagliatelle, but for now I take what I can get ;)
[02:36] <elmo> http://www.siec.k12.in.us/~west/proj/penguins/mac.html
[02:37] <fabbione> doko: lol
[02:37] <fabbione> doko: but it's macCheroni
[02:38] <doko> fabbione: welcome to make you happy :)
[02:38] <haggai> daniels: just tried an dist-upgrade from warty to hoary and lost resolution on my LCD panel.  Do you want anything else in the bug report other than Xorg.log & xorg.conf?
[02:38] <fabbione> elmo: after my honeymoon  i will send you pictures of me swimming with the galapagos penguin :P
[02:39] <fabbione> haggai: do you happen to have Horiz and VertSync entries in xorg.conf?
[02:39] <haggai> fabbione: no
[02:39] <haggai> (II) SAVAGE(0): Generic Monitor: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
[02:39] <fabbione> haggai: open a bug with both xorg and xfree86 config and logs
[02:39] <haggai> (II) SAVAGE(0): Generic Monitor: Using default vrefresh range of 43.00-72.00 Hz
[02:40] <haggai> fabbione: ok thanks
[02:40] <fabbione> haggai: please make it a blocker bug
[02:40] <fabbione> or major
[02:40] <haggai> fabbione: ok
[02:40] <fabbione> haggai: as a temp workaround please use the usual dpkg-reconfigure xorg
[02:40] <fabbione> hem
[02:40] <fabbione> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[02:46] <lamont> fabbione: what's the bug?
[02:46] <fabbione> lamont: in the specific case:
[02:46] <fabbione> my normal env_cmnd = something
[02:46] <fabbione> because it needs to override for all packages
[02:47] <fabbione> for the package specific foo, i don't need the override
[02:47] <fabbione> so either is '' or something else that disable the override
[02:47] <lamont> and you want to specify a blank for the specific package
[02:47] <fabbione> exactly
[02:47] <lamont> bummer. :-)
[02:47] <fabbione> lamont: really.. it's a detail
[02:48] <lamont> =":;"  works?
[02:48] <fabbione> lamont: hmm i dunno.. i will check at the next kernel upload
[02:48] <fabbione> but just that you know :-)
[02:49] <lamont> fabbione: it won't.
[02:49] <lamont> oh. that's evil.
[02:50] <lamont> "sh -c" might work.
[02:50] <fabbione> lamont: i think the point is "use external cmd_env if external cmd_env"
[02:50] <lamont> " " should work too.
[02:50] <fabbione> lamont: eheheh ok
[02:50] <lamont> fabbione: all the config variables are equally broken.
[02:50] <fabbione> lamont: hmm interesting
[02:51] <lamont> see also buildd's handling of $should_build_msgs :-(
[02:51] <lamont> anyway, I'm gone for a while.
[02:51] <fabbione> later
[02:53] <gicmo_> heya everybody
[02:57] <seb128> jdub: ping ?
[02:57] <jdub> pong
[02:58] <seb128> do you think that the pixbuf engine should be in libgtk2.0-0 ? or should we create a gtk2-engines-pixbuf ?
[02:59] <jdub> seb128: don't we already have a gtk2-engines-pixbuf?
[02:59] <seb128> jdub: gtk 2.5.6 includes the engine, you don't suggest to drop if from the package, do you ?
[03:00] <jdub> seb128: replace the engine pacakge, surely?
[03:00] <seb128> hum
[03:00] <seb128> I'm not clear
[03:01] <jdub> seb128: the pixbuf engine has moved from gtk-engines to gtk itself
[03:01] <seb128> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines/libpixmap.so was in gtk2-engines-pixbuf from gtk2-engines
[03:01] <seb128> it's in gtk+2.0 now
[03:01] <jdub> so shouldn't gtk just build the gtk2-engines-pixbuf package now?
[03:01] <seb128> the question is: do we want to include the .so in libgtk2.0-0 which replaces/conflicts/provides gtk2-engines-pixbuf ?
[03:02] <seb128> or do we want to create a binary gtk2-engines-pixbuf in gtk+2.0 for it ?
[03:02] <jdub> the latter
[03:02] <seb128> ok, I think so
[03:02] <azeem> slashdot reports IBM wants to sell the PC/notebook division
[03:02] <seb128> but still good to have a second opinion
[03:02] <seb128> thanks jdub 
[03:03] <jdub> azeem: interesting
[03:03] <zul> did they say why
[03:03] <azeem> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/03/technology/03ibm.html?ex=1259816400&en=c60a66b7afa86173&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland
[03:04] <jdub> they should sell it to sun
[03:04] <jdub> that would confuse the crap out of everyone
[03:05] <zul> yeah i would be living a nightmare...thanks
[03:05] <Treenaks> jdub: what about sco
[03:05] <zul> even worse
[03:06] <azeem> Treenaks: uhm, it costs 2 Billion or so
[03:06] <azeem> I don't think SCO has that much money left
[03:07] <Treenaks> azeem: hm.. wait
[03:07] <daniels> haggai: oops.  yes, please.
[03:07] <daniels> haggai: xorg.0.log+xorg.conf+lspci+lspci -n
[03:14] <jdub> seb128: btw, where are all the silly XDG and GNOME environment variables set in our gnome?
[03:14] <elmo> oh dear Lord, the SF bug tracker is HORRIBLE
[03:14] <seb128> jdub: I don't think so, but we use the standard paths so we don't need to set them
[03:14] <Kamion> elmo: isn't it just
[03:15] <jdub> seb128: even for gnome-menus?
[03:15] <seb128> I've tried to find a gaim bug yesterday, no way
[03:15] <seb128> jdub: works fine here yes
[03:15] <daniels> elmo: the patch tracker's even worse
[03:15] <jdub> cool
[03:15] <jdub> nice to avoid that damage
[03:16] <jdub> i couldn't think where they'd be set ;)
[03:16] <daniels> jdub: /etc/profile?
[03:16] <jdub> daniels: ick
[03:22] <daniels> Kamion: 
[03:22] <daniels> COPTS+= -DAH_BYTE_ORDER=AH_BIG_ENDIAN -DAH_REGOPS_FUNC
[03:22] <daniels> COPTS+= -mbig-endian
[03:22] <daniels> COPTS+= -msoft-float -ffixed-r2
[03:22] <daniels> do those make sense on power*?
[03:22] <Kamion> hm, I aggressively avoid remembering which endianness my processor is
[03:23] <Kamion> but yes, Linux/powerpc is big-endian
[03:24] <Kamion> -msoft-float is valid though I'm not quite sure why you'd use it; bug avoidance?
[03:24] <Kamion> -ffixed-r2 is valid in theory but I've no idea what effect it has
[03:24] <daniels> it's apparently only been tested on some ibm machine
[03:24] <Kamion> RS/6000s and Macs shouldn't differ at that kind of level
[03:25] <Kamion> where is this, anyway?
[03:25] <Kamion> l-r-m?
[03:25] <daniels> madwifi, yah
[03:25] <Kamion> daniels: ah, yes, you definitely want -msoft-float then
[03:25] <Kamion> (no fp in the kernel)
[03:25] <Kamion> sounds plausible at least
[03:30] <daniels> cool
[03:42] <daniels> dear s3 savage driver,
[03:42] <daniels> you are a total piece of crap.
[03:42] <daniels> warm regards,
[03:42] <daniels> daniel
[03:43] <haggai> heh
[03:43] <daniels> i see the problem
[03:43] <haggai> yeah?  I see the wierd message in the log
[03:43] <haggai> (II) SAVAGE(0): Not using mode "1024x768" (no mode of this name)
[03:43] <daniels> (--) SAVAGE(0): 1024x768 TFT LCD panel detected and active
[03:43] <daniels> (--) SAVAGE(0): - Limiting video mode to 1024x768
[03:43] <daniels> (II) SAVAGE(0): Generic Monitor: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
[03:43] <daniels> (II) SAVAGE(0): Generic Monitor: Using default vrefresh range of 43.00-72.00 Hz
[03:43] <haggai> ooh that's a bit tight
[03:44] <daniels> basically, it's going 'let me use some crappy range that won't fail on any moonitor ever, despite the fact I should be pulling this stuff out of the BIOS'
[03:44] <daniels> so, if you dump HorizSync/VertRefresh from XF86Config-4 into xorg.conf, it should Just Work
[03:45] <daniels>          * Instead, I'll abandon any attempt to automatically limit the
[03:45] <daniels>          * clock, and add an LCDClock option to XF86Config.  Some day,
[03:45] <daniels>          * I should come back to this.
[03:46] <haggai> daniels: yeah, adding those two back in worked
[03:47] <daniels> *sigh*
[03:51] <daniels> haggai: could you please grab http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/tmp/savage_drv.o, dump it in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers, start sudo Xorg :1 -ac -novtswitch, ctrl-C the server, and throw me the output of grep 'Detected clock range' /var/log/Xorg.1.log?
[03:55] <daniels>  * On many machines, the attempt to read DDC information via VBE puts the
[03:55] <daniels>  * BIOS access into a state which prevents me from reading mode information.
[03:55] <daniels>  * This is a complete mystery to me.
[03:55] <daniels> someone needs to get S3 docs.  badly.
[03:56] <fabbione> elmo: why did you take down the max rsync connections to 15?
[03:56] <daniels> haggai: does Option "LCDClock" "49" work for you, if you remove HorizSync/VertRefresh?
[03:57] <haggai> daniels: (II) SAVAGE(0): Detected clock range: 10000-220000
[03:58] <daniels> haggai: actually, sorry, I misread that -- don't try the LCDClock thing
[03:58] <elmo> fabbione: beause the load was spiking to 30 and killing the cd sync
[03:58] <haggai> daniels: ok
[03:58] <fabbione> elmo: ah ok...
[03:59] <elmo> doko: dumped some more info in 4141.. just noticed you weren't cc'ed
[04:01] <daniels> oh god, s3 got bought out by via.
[04:02] <daniels> haggai: i'll mail s3 devrel about it, but i'm not expecting much good.  i'll probably end up massively kludging it.
[04:04] <haggai> daniels: ok.  Thanks for the help.  I'll be at the con from Sun so you can play with it then, if it would help :)
[04:04] <jdub> BEER FOR HAGGAI
[04:05] <jdub> i'm glad spanish beer is cheap and good
[04:05] <jdub> :)
[04:05] <fabbione> jdub: oh yeah. you will have to offer quite a lot around.. oh btw,.. speaking of inotify....
[04:05] <fabbione> ;)
[04:05] <jdub> haha :-)
[04:06] <jdub> fabbione: but you are unwell :)
[04:06] <daniels> haggai: yeah, I'll check it out :)  itmt, I've emailed s3 devrel, so we'll see how it goes.  worst case is that we just kludge a sensible set of sync ranges in if we detect an LCD.
[04:06] <fabbione> jdub: true... we will see during the week
[04:06] <daniels> SANGRIA
[04:06] <jdub> daniels: mmm
[04:07] <haggai> jdub: oooh :) lots please :D
[04:08] <tseng> nothing more fun that a wasted daniels 
[04:09] <daniels> elmo: could I please get linux-headers-2.6.9-1-* on concordia?
[04:09] <tseng> ive never heard more interesting ways to string together obscenities
[04:09] <daniels> i'm honoured :P
[04:10] <sjoerd> sivang: your friend with the toy laptop, was that a dell thing ?
[04:10] <sivang> sjoerd : yes dude :)
[04:11] <sjoerd> sivang: the new hal packages should automagically hanlde those (by not polling)
[04:12] <sivang> sjoerd : I've installed the new one (0.4.2) as jdub adviced , it seems to be ok 
[04:12] <elmo> daniels: done
[04:12] <sjoerd> cool
[04:12] <daniels> elmo: cheers
[04:13] <sivang> sjoerd : I am going to test it some more with playing cds and using cd simultanesously accessing the hd, and then I'll close the bug
[04:20] <doko> elmo: thanks, subscribed
[04:20] <sivang> sjoerd : what seemed to be the problem with it? I mean, what did it do that caused the HD to slow so bad?
[04:21] <sjoerd> sivang: the problem is not solved (it's hw), but it's automagically worked around now
[04:29] <sivang> sjoerd : ok, is the workaround complicated to explain in few words? Or use the source  ? :)
[04:30] <sjoerd> it's an entry in the default fdi that sets storage.media_check_enabled to false on that specific drive model
[04:31] <sjoerd> see /usr/share/hal/fdi/20freedesktop/ide-drives.fdi
[04:31] <sivang> sjoerd : ah I See, so now when I insert a media nothing happens automatically?
[04:32] <sjoerd> correct
[04:47] <jdub> Keybuk: proposed panel menu changes mail on u-d
[04:54] <Kamion> DAMNIT
[04:54] <Kamion> is anyone going to have a spare USB stick with them in Mataro that I could borrow for a bit?
[04:54] <bob2> yup
[04:54] <Kamion> Open Firmware really isn't interested in talking to this one, for some unknown reason
[04:54] <Kamion> ah, that'd be great, thanks
[04:55] <Kamion> might be able to get USB installations on powerpc going then
[04:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, yes
[04:55] <Mithrandir> my x40 won't boot off it, though
[04:56] <Kamion> lamont: any clue why none of the buildds seem to have tried debian-installer 20041118ubuntu6 yet?
[04:59] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, you can have mine
[04:59] <Kamion> maybe out of three I have a chance of one that OF will like
[05:02] <mxpxpod> have any of you had the problems described in bug #4333
[05:02] <Kamion> mxpxpod: yes, it's fairly common
[05:03] <mxpxpod> Kamion: any quick fix?
[05:03] <Kamion> disable udev-mtab I *think*, but check what it does before blindly doing that
[05:03] <mxpxpod> how do I disable that?
[05:03] <Kamion> it's an init script ...
[05:04] <mxpxpod> Kamion: so, rm /etc/rcS.d/S36udev-mtab?
[05:04] <Kamion> mxpxpod: I think so; that'll make it come back at the next upgrade but that's probably what you wanted; by the next upgrade I'd hope it'll be fixed
[05:05] <Mithrandir> daniels: it's only at about 1.2 now.
[05:05] <mxpxpod> Kamion: basically, it binds /dev to /.dev and mounts the tmpfs if it's not in /etc/mtab
[05:05] <Kamion> mxpxpod: right
[05:05] <mxpxpod> Kamion: but shouldn't the tmpfs be mounted already once udev starts up?
[05:06] <bob2> Mithrandir: I h8 u.
[05:06] <Kamion> mxpxpod: that's not the problem; best guess in the bug reports so far is that as the system is shutting down umount unmounts /dev and then gets confused and crashes
[05:06] <bob2> and trashes mtab?
[05:06] <Kamion> not sure
[05:07] <mxpxpod> bob2: check out #4333
[05:07] <Kamion> the other Debian bug linked to from that is a bit more useful; http://bugs.debian.org/283323
[05:07] <bob2> mxpxpod: am
[05:07] <Mithrandir> daniels: where's the x40-l33tness package?
[05:07] <bob2> Mithrandir: ~daniels/x40/
[05:08] <Mithrandir> why not in hoary?
[05:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ahhh, I get it
[05:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: so, I don't get why we need udev-mtab
[05:09] <Kamion> mxpxpod: I'm still just guessing though
[05:09] <Kamion> mxpxpod: don't ask me
[05:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: the bug you posted confirmed what you said
[05:09] <Kamion> mxpxpod: I'm assuming it isn't useless because Md is not in the habit of introducing useless things
[05:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: Md?
[05:10] <daniels> Mithrandir: p.d.o/~daniels/x40/, not in hoary because it needs genericness and love
[05:10] <Kamion> the udev maintainer
[05:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ah, ok
[05:10] <Mithrandir> daniels: are you going to love it in Mataro?
[05:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: check out the last entry on that bug you posted
[05:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to disable that script
[05:11] <Kamion> mxpxpod: I already have. let's not act hastily eh? plenty of time until hoary releases
[05:11] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hehe
[05:11] <Kamion> mxpxpod: better: help lamont to find out why umount is segfaulting.
[05:16] <daniels> Mithrandir: i suspect so
[05:16] <mxpxpod> Kamion: there we go, that fixed it :)
[05:18] <lamont> Kamion: I'd love a patch for umount. :-)
[05:18] <lamont> I hate plumbing
[05:22] <lamont> Kamion: d-i is d-w libparted1.6-0 - is that related to the partman failures, or will I need to clear the d-w after a d-i upload?
[05:24] <Kamion> lamont: can that be cleared? I've changed the build-dep to libparted1.6-12
[05:29] <fabbione> lamont: Log for successful build of linux-source-2.6.9_2.6.9-1 (dist=hoary)
[05:29] <fabbione> that's thank to the patch :-)
[05:30] <mako> DUDES!
[05:30] <mako> i just gave tons of ubuntu cds to eben moglen :)
[05:31] <mako> evidently, he already had tried an install
[05:31] <mako> he wants more
[05:32] <bob2> wooo
[05:32] <Kamion> mako: heh, dude :)
[05:32] <bob2> good shit
[05:32] <mako> jdub: eben moglen <3 ubuntu
[05:32] <mako> i think he's going to give them to the other law profs at columbia :)
[05:34] <jdub> mako: oh?
[05:34] <jdub> mako: that's awesome!
[05:35] <mako> jdub: yeah, he expressed interest in meeting mark next time he's in the neighborhood.. he's totally into it
[05:35] <jdub> heh
[05:35] <jdub> rad
[05:35] <mdz> morning
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  Plumbing sucks
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> you loosen the wrong screw, the pipe turns out to be the wrong pipe
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> and you get a spray of shit in your face
[05:36] <mako> i think eben moglen is the person who i look up to most in this world.. the fact he's into the project i work on makes me *very* happy
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> mako:  what project
[05:37] <mako> he was also concerned by the ibm pc division sale because he was afraid the thinkpad keyboards might start sucking
[05:37] <mako> bluefoxicy: UBUNTU!
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> oh
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> I thought you meant some other project :P
[05:37] <mako> bluefoxicy: i just got back from his office and i gave him a bunch of cds and he wants more
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> heh
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> who is eben moglen?
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> is it bigger than a breadbox?
[05:38] <mako> bluefoxicy: prof. of law at columbia university, FSF gen. counsel, author of GPL
[05:38] <jdub> bluefoxicy: FSF lawyer
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> ah
[05:38] <mako> well the legal bits of the GPLv2 at least
[05:39] <thom> mako: that totally kicks ass
[05:39] <bob2> basically, eben > you
[05:40] <mako> eben > me*10000
[05:40] <mako> eben is all the things i love about RMS without the parts that annoy me
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> heh
[05:40] <sladen> jdub: are you the man to talk to about BOFs ?
[05:40] <jdub> sure
[05:41] <jdub> mail me
[05:41] <jdub> on phone atm
[05:41] <ggi> I'm noticing that if I do, say, 'mv file ~/Desktop', then the file doesn't actually show up as it would if I had used Nautilus to copy it over. Is this a gamin thing?
[05:41] <sladen> jdub: I'm down to do one about 6hours before I arrive in barcelona, can I rearrange it :)
[05:41] <sladen> jdub: k
[05:42] <jdub> heh
[05:43] <sladen> jdub: I arrive last thing on Tuesday, so I should have woken up by Wednesday afternoon
[05:44] <mako> i'm amazed they even exist
[05:44] <mako> but it's someone less than direct back
[05:44] <thom> mako: you should that's not barcelona, new mexico or something? :P
[05:44] <mako> thom: no....
[05:44] <mdz> heh
[05:44] <thom> uh, s/should/sure
[05:45] <mako> if it's too good to be true, it probably is
[05:45] <mako> uh oh
[05:45] <mako> i'm *sure* there is
[05:45] <thom> did you hear about the english OAPs who bought a flight to sydney?
[05:46] <mako> i didn't even hear what an OAP was
[05:46] <thom> oh, right. Old Age Pensioner
[05:46] <mako> alright
[05:46] <mako> ok
[05:46] <mako> so no
[05:46] <thom> so, they were really excited about their cheap flights...
[05:47] <thom> shame they didn't check *which* sydney they'd bought flights for, because sydney, canada is a touch colder than sydney, australia in december
[05:47] <mako> haha
[05:47] <mako> i'm surprised the tickets were that much cheaper
[05:48] <thom> 7 hours v 24 hours?
[05:49] <mako> yeah, but it's a small airport.. fine.. you're right :)
[05:56] <lamont> Kamion: cleared
[06:02] <Kamion> lamont: thanks
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: regarding 2.6.9, the known bug is probably fairly harmless for the installer, from what we know so far
[06:03] <mdz> seems to only affect usb-storage at the most
[06:03] <Kamion> mdz: that might kind of kill installations from USB though. :)
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: we don't support those yet anyway, no?
[06:04] <Kamion>  debian-installer (20041118ubuntu6) hoary; urgency=low
[06:04] <Kamion>    * Enable hd-media (bootable USB) builds on amd64 and i386.
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: please update HoaryGoals
[06:04] <Kamion> (not that they *work* yet unless you stick an ISO on the hard disk somewhere, but still ...)
[06:04] <Kamion> mdz: it's not done yet :)
[06:04] <Kamion> but sure, I'll update it to say in progress
[06:05] <mdz> Kamion: I've been trying to keep it updated with a vague status
[06:10] <trulux> hey guys
[06:10] <trulux> hey lamont
[06:13] <tseng> mdz: whats the vauge plan on the NX item?
[06:20] <mdz> tseng: needs to be fleshed out; I think MIthrandir has ideas
[06:20] <thom> man, NM is super fucked right now
[06:21] <fabbione> only 199 packages to go for sparc + 5/6 FTBFS and what will queue up in the meantime
[06:21] <fabbione> but we have a big big big advantage over ia64
[06:21] <fabbione> we already have a kernel :-)
[06:22] <jdub> thom: i'm not holding out much hope for NM in hoary
[06:22] <trulux> hey tseng
[06:23] <thom> jdub: no
[06:24] <sladen> jdub: what's missing, functionality, or bugs?
[06:24] <tseng> stability for one
[06:25] <jdub> sladen: workingness
[06:25] <jdub> and sanity
[06:25] <tseng> it has about a 70% workingness factor here
[06:25] <tseng> 10% sanity
[06:25] <jdub> by hoary release, they'll have reimplemented most of the userspace network stack
[06:25] <tseng> and thats after thom fixed a few things
[06:28] <sladen> what's the prospects on something expanded around the netapplet stuff;  or forking an earlier (simpler) version of NM and fixing that up
[06:29] <tseng> the earlier NM you go, the lower the workingness
[06:31] <jdub> sladen: netapplet's a possibility
[06:31] <jdub> sladen: if we do something temporary, would prefer to go with it
[06:32] <sladen> jdub: go with netapplet?
[06:32] <jdub> thom: was just saying that if we do something temporary, it should probably be a modified netapplet
[06:32] <thom> agreed
[06:32] <jdub> without the gtkbutton
[06:32] <jdub> just make it replace the wifi applet in our current configuration
[06:33] <jdub> in fact
[06:33] <thom> i'll have to look at netapplet again soon, it's been a while
[06:33] <jdub> perhaps we should just commit to that now
[06:33] <jdub> and watch the NM damage from afar
[06:33] <mdz> jdub: have you tracked down that odd/scary unmounting problem?
[06:34] <haggai> is there someone coming to the conference who is bringing a powerpc machine that can build openoffice?  I have a bug to fix
[06:34] <jdub> mdz: not really
[06:34] <jdub> mdz: but it seems to be intel driver related, perhaps
[06:36] <mdz> jdub: e100, e1000 or ipw2200?
[06:36] <thom> jdub: umount segfault?
[06:36] <mdz> not that it makes any sense whatsoever for it to be driver-specific
[06:36] <mdz> I don't think the kernel is unmounting filesystems via a network driver
[06:36] <thom> it happens on ppc, too
[06:37] <jdub> thom: no, the "unmount all filesystems when you bring the network down" one
[06:37] <jdub> 4330 i think
[06:37] <thom> jdub: ahr, yes
[06:37] <thom> bob2 was seeing that on ppc
[06:37] <jdub> i'm using the mjg driver, too
[06:37] <jdub> ber
[06:37] <jdub> kernel
[06:37] <thom> umounting /proc is pretty special
[06:38] <daniels> yeah
[06:38] <jdub> it also crashes the system monitor applet
[06:38] <jdub> (the unmounting of /proc)
[06:39] <thom> jdub: yep
[06:39] <thom> and gnome-cpufreq-applet
[06:45] <mxpxpod> speaking of the system monitor crashing... when I load up gnome for the first time, the system monitor in my panel crashes and asks to be reloaded... then it doesn't have a problem after I reload it
[06:52] <jdub> mako: around?
[06:52] <jdub> http://danilo.segan.org/blog/gnome/ubuntu-here.html
[06:53] <jdub> mako: i want to hide a bunch of fonts with fontconfig, but let them be used as fallbacks for characters
[06:55] <mako> jdub: hey there
[06:56] <mako> jdub: the label stuff is nasty
[06:56] <mako> jdub: our shipping company doesn't allow us to use any non-ascii characters
[06:56] <mako> jdub: so the way we're guessing has improved but still sucks
[06:57] <jdub> heh
[07:01] <mako> i mean, the point is basically to make "correct enough so that it gets there" :)
[07:01] <mako> jdub: thanks for the pointer, i've replied though
[07:03] <mako> and emailed danilo
[07:05] <jdub> cool
[07:05] <jdub> mako: was actually mostly interested in his l10n/i18n bugs... ;)
[07:06] <mako> jdub: well me too.. some are low hanging fruit.. some are more problematic
[07:06] <jdub> "involves OOo" -> problematic :)
[07:06] <mako> jdub: in the email i said i'd work with him to file and follow-up on the bugs
[07:06] <mako> yeah, basically
[07:08] <mako> excellent, i was going to check to see if there was a non-latin input method bof.. and there is! and i'm leading it!
[07:08] <mako> dude, hoary input is going to *rock*
[07:08] <jdub> you wanna do iiiiiim?
[07:09] <mako> we need to someone get iiiiiim to work with dsssssssssl
[07:09] <jdub> heh
[07:10] <mako> i need to play with it more.. i've been seeing awesome things with uim lately in gnome
[07:10] <jdub> there certainly seems to be a lot of uim support
[07:10] <mako> my non-latin languages (japanese and amharic mostly) basically rock
[07:10] <jdub> from the various l10n projects
[07:10] <jdub> the koreans have some nice ones
[07:10] <mako> *2* amharic input methods(!)
[07:10] <mdz> whoa
[07:10] <jdub> they also have a korean dictionary client
[07:10] <mako> and a tigrinya input method!
[07:10] <jdub> which they called "gdick"
[07:10] <mdz> a cloop-compressed ext2 filesystem came out smaller than a cramfs filesystem
[07:11] <mako> right, i've heard of gdick
[07:11] <mdz> I guess the block size makes a big difference
[07:11] <mako> i know enough hindi to input it and see if it's working
[07:11] <mako> and i *used* to be able to read korean script
[07:11] <mako> it was only 5-6 years ago so i think i could catch up again
[07:11] <mako> at least enough to test and such
[07:12] <mako> i've always wanted to learn and i've heard it's pretty easy
[07:12] <thom> yeah, i wanna learn cyrillic too
[07:12] <mako> mark and i could pass notes in class
[07:13] <mako> thom: i'll bet we could learn in an evening
[07:13] <mako> a few beers, some cyrillic flashcards
[07:13] <mako> MY KIND OF PARTY
[07:13] <jdub> s/beers/vodka kegs/
[07:14] <thom> it'd have to be vodka and lard, yes
[07:14] <mako> YES
[07:14] <mako> DA!
[07:14] <mako> !
[07:16] <Treenaks> ooh.. they have the Starship Enterprise as a letter: 
[07:17] <Treenaks> will anyone here be arriving _tomorrow_ instead of Sunday btw?
[07:17] <thom> Treenaks: i've been here since yesterday
[07:17] <Treenaks> thom: ah cool
[07:17] <mako> i arrive sunday at like 7am
[07:17] <mako> i think that basically counts
[07:18] <thom> lol
[07:18] <mako> well actually, timzone wise
[07:18] <Treenaks> my plane arrives at BCN around 14:30 tomorrow
[07:18] <mako> it *will* be tomorrow for me
[07:18] <mako> just like midnight
[07:18] <jdub> i get in at 1100 on sunday
[07:19] <Treenaks> ok.. packing bluetooth stuff & GPS unit :)
[07:19] <thom> oh, and just walk from the train station to the hotel, it's totally easy
[07:19] <mako> or perhaps, at thom is suggesting, i'm arriving in barcelona new mexico at 7am
[07:19] <Treenaks> though I doubt they'll let me use the GPS on the plane :)
[07:20] <Treenaks> thom: I have a printout of the map from the wiki
[07:20] <thom> mako: *g*
[07:20] <thom> Treenaks: yeah. 
[07:20] <mako> either will be warmer than new york
[07:20] <mako> so i'm ok with that
[07:21] <thom> FUCKEN. 
[07:21] <mako> ?!
[07:21] <thom> max connections my ass
[07:21] <sladen> jdub: groovy, ta
[07:22] <Treenaks> mako: how long before ksp-mataro.txt is available?
[07:23] <Treenaks> or after tonight, rather
[07:23] <zul> how come
[07:24] <Treenaks> zul: i don't have a printer at home, and I'm going to my parents tonight
[07:24] <zul> ah
[07:24] <Treenaks> zul: and my plane leaves tomorrow around noon
[07:24] <thom> Treenaks: there's a printer here, if you trust it
[07:25] <Treenaks> thom: I can eyeball-compare my screen to my printout.. and verify the md5 of the one on my screen
[07:25] <Treenaks> thom: or is that considered "insecure" ?
[07:26] <Treenaks> (I've only done "small" keysignings, with 2-3 persons at at time..)
[07:27] <mako> i meant: 
[07:27] <Treenaks> oh well, I'll Find a Way
[07:27] <Treenaks> mako: and what about stuff like: 
[07:27] <mako> me needs to remember to type  instead of ?! or !? (or, in suppose  and  )
[07:28] <mako> the interrobang is a *great* invention
[07:28] <mdz> seb128, jdub: my trash and mixer applets segfault every time I log in.  is this known?
[07:28] <seb128> no
[07:28] <thom> mako: giggle
[07:28] <Treenaks> mako: is it easily composable?
[07:28] <jdub> mdz: haven't seen it
[07:28] <mdz> seb128: do you want a stack trace?
[07:28] <Treenaks> mako: without editing /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
[07:29] <seb128> mdz: yes please
[07:29] <mako> Treenaks: not in the input method i duse.. it is if you know the unicode codepoint :)
[07:29] <seb128> mdz: since when do you have this ? 
[07:30] <mako> there is also the venerable: 
[07:30] <mako> when space is an issue but *really* can't afford two glyphs
[07:30] <mako> and it's not just a question, but REALLY a question
[07:30] <mdz_> seb128: correction, it's not segfaulting
[07:31] <mdz_> I get a "The panel encountered a problem whil loading "OAFIID:...TrashApplet".  Details: Failed to resolve, or extend "!prefs_key=//apps/panel/profiles/default/applets/trashapplet/prefs;background=none;orient=up;size=x-small;locked_down=false
[07:31] <mdz_> "Do you want to delete the applet from your configuration?
[07:31] <Treenaks> mako: what about the ever-popular ,  and 
[07:32] <Treenaks> mako: I mean.. for all those times you want to talk about communism being deadly and/or nuclear..
[07:32] <mdz_> seb128: and for the mixer, the same but with prefs_key=/apps/panel/prefiles/default/applets/applet_2/prefs;background=none;orient=down;size=x-small;locked_down=false
[07:33] <mdz> seb128: this started about two days ago, but I had not logged out for some time before that I don't think
[07:34] <seb128> mdz: and if you add the applets after the login, does it work ?
[07:34] <mdz> seb128: I don't see them in the "add to panel" menu
[07:35] <mdz> neither trash nor mixer
[07:35] <seb128> do you have gnome-applets installed ?
[07:35] <mdz> er
[07:35] <mdz> no, I don't
[07:35] <mdz> how did that happen?
[07:35] <seb128> libgtop2-4 -> libgtop2-5 transition perhaps
[07:36] <seb128> perhaps you dist-upgraded before getting gnome-applets built
[07:36] <mdz> it's possible
[07:36] <mdz> mvo: we need to get that logging feature into apt
[07:36] <mdz> seb128: thanks for the clue bat
[07:36] <seb128> np
[07:36] <mvo> mdz: great, I'm all for it :)
[07:38] <mdz> mvo: though when I think about adding new features to apt, I start to think about Smart :-)
[07:38] <mdz> mvo: I don't suppose we can get Gustavo to come to Mataro
[07:39] <thom> guys, anything we want mirrored on the server here? (warty+hoary already coming down the wire)
[07:41] <mvo> mdz: I still haven't seen any code :(
[07:41] <mvo> mdz: we might. do you think we could sponsor his flight and all? I can ask him :)
[07:41] <mvo> he is concered about the amount of package we support though. it will probably not scale (yet) to the 16000 packages in debian (or universe)
[07:41] <mvo> I need to leave now and play some hockey ... (I'll be back in ~2h)
[07:41] <Kamion> thom: releases.ubuntu.com, current daily
[07:42] <thom> Kamion: nod
[07:42] <thom> Smart?
[08:02] <IRCMonkey___> Hi sorry to bother you
[08:02] <IRCMonkey___> to change mkboot config on floppy
[08:03] <IRCMonkey___> I edit /mnt/floppy/lilo.conf then do lilo -C /mnt/floppy/lilo.conf ?
[08:03] <IRCMonkey___> sorry to ask here but nobody answer me on #ubuntu 
[08:03] <IRCMonkey___> good way or not ?
[08:07] <carlos> fabbione: are you working on a sparc port for Ubuntu?
[08:08] <carlos> fabbione: I got a question about Ubuntu for Sparc in ubuntu-es mailing list
[08:08] <carlos> fabbione: could I redirect it to you?
[08:08] <mdz> carlos: yes, he is working on it
[08:09] <carlos> ok, I'm going to forward this guy to fabbione then.
[08:09] <fabbione> carlos: re
[08:09] <carlos> fabbione: hi
[08:09] <fabbione> carlos: what is the question?
[08:09] <carlos> fabbione: He just asked for a sparc port
[08:10] <carlos> perhaps he wants to help you
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: we are working on it...
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: any help will be appreciated as soon as some packages will enter the archive to test the installer
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: right now there is not much that they can do without being able to bootstrap a hoary chroot on sparc
[08:11] <carlos> ok
[08:11] <carlos> fabbione: perhaps a Debian installation ...
[08:12] <fabbione> carlos: no.. trust me.. he needs a hoary chroot at this point in time
[08:12] <fabbione> i am almost done rebuilding hoary on top of hoary
[08:12] <carlos> ok
[08:13] <fabbione> carlos: basically once i am done with it (probably less than a week)
[08:13] <fabbione> carlos: the packages can enter the archive
[08:13] <fabbione> carlos: Kamion can start germinating around them
[08:13] <fabbione> carlos: and create the seeds
[08:13] <fabbione> after that only 2/3 packages need a fast fix
[08:13] <fabbione> and we can start testing the installer
[08:13] <carlos> fabbione: are we going to support it from Canonical? (just my own curiosity)
[08:14] <fabbione> no
[08:14] <fabbione> this is an unofficial poer
[08:14] <fabbione> port
[08:14] <carlos> ok
[08:15] <trulux> hey lamont 
[08:15] <trulux> lamont, what's the plan for the conference in Matar?
[08:39] <zul> fabbione: i have hardware that can help
[08:40] <zul> or have i mentioned that before :)
[08:52] <sladen> fabbione: sledge has a 5-way sparc box
[08:56] <haggai> sladen: I think I saw that box going to Kinnison on Sunday
[08:56] <gicmo_> sladen, ! (I am getting on your nerves, do I)
[09:05] <Treenaks> *phew*.. just in time 
[10:10] <mdz> jdub: which bit of GNOME has shit itself when I'm stuck with a window-resizing mouse cursor and can't switch focus?
[10:11] <mdz> also no mouse events work
[10:11] <mdz> though the keyboard does
[10:12] <Treenaks> mdz: something grabbed it
[10:12] <mdz> yeah, workrave I tihnk
[10:12] <Treenaks> try killing the grabbing app
[10:12] <mdz> already did
[10:12] <mdz> at least, I killed workrave, which is what seemed to have grabbed it
[10:12] <Treenaks> kill the wm?
[10:12] <mdz> tried it
[10:12] <mdz> also gnome-settings-daemon and bonobo-activation for good measure
[10:13] <mdz> killing the panel has gotten me focus back
[10:13] <mdz> it seemed to be stuck at the "this applet just died" dialog
[10:13] <mdz> but the mouse is still unresponsive
[10:14] <mdz> guess I'll need to log out
[10:17] <mako> keys for the keysigning anyone
[10:17] <mako> anyone, anyone
[10:41] <Treenaks> mako: will there be one before the planned one on friday?
[10:45] <mako> Treenaks: there will be more ad-hoc keysignings all throughout
[10:50] <edulix> hey!
[10:51] <mako> edulix: hey!
[10:51] <edulix> here someone having real problems with grub and warty... instrad of a grub menu, I get a grub prompt "grub >". what could it be mako ? :)