mjg592.6.9 has better USB suspend/resume12:02
mjg59Should probably still unload them, though12:02
bob2will that block if any usb stuff is in use?12:02
chrisaThere's usually a problem on wakeup if usb was loaded and a device was removed between sleep and resume12:03
bob2hm, right, so it's a good idea to detach stuff anyway12:03
bob2I'll try fabio's new 2.6.9 in the morn12:04
=== Kamion ponders figuring out the linux-meta build system
Kamioncall me bored12:05
bob2I figured that when I saw you looking for typoes in the wiki :)12:06
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Kamionwell, we were kinda collectively going through the quotes12:07
MithrandirKamion: you're not considering just going to bed? :)12:07
bob2I was trying to capture the accent12:07
Kamionbob2: mind you, you're subscribed to Quotes, a fine one you are to talk :)12:07
KamionMithrandir: soon ...12:07
bob2poorly, of course12:07
Kamionbob2: yeah, Scott told me and changed it back12:07
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=== mjg59 watches video blow up again
mjg59I'm really not sure that I understand this12:08
Keybukso, you don't want me to run this then? :)12:09
mjg59Hrm. If I cat something into stdin and then read from it, read should stop on the EOF, right?12:09
Mithrandirlike cat foo | while read thing; do .. ?12:10
mjg59No, into a C program12:10
mjg59And it works now.12:11
Keybukdepends whether the shell actually closes stdin or not12:11
Mithrandirmjg59: cat foo | c-program-which-does-read?12:12
Mithrandirread in said c program will return zero when EOF is detected.12:12
=== lamont_r sleeps
bob2good idea12:21
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mjg59There's a maximum length on environment variables?12:27
Keybukmjg59, UNIX; UNIX, mjg59.  I'm sure you'll be friends.12:28
mjg59Keybuk: Right.12:29
mjg59Keybuk: Can you grab http://www.codon.org.uk/12:29
mjg59Keybuk: Can you grab http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/vbestate12:29
mjg59And then try VBESTATE=`tempfile`; sudo vbestate save >$VBESTATE; sudo video_post; sudo vbestate restore <$VBESTATE; rm $VBESTATE12:30
Keybukwant me to grab the former or the latter?12:30
KeybukI have enough bandwidth <g>12:30
mjg59The latter12:30
Keybukin a console12:30
mjg59I don't have enough bandwidth :p12:30
mjg59Yaeh, console12:30
Keybukback after the system crash and reboot then12:31
Keybuk....where do I get "video_post" from ?12:31
mjg59Oh, right. use vm86_video_post12:31
thommjg59: scott's singing that song again12:34
mjg59Is he using a framebuffer?12:34
thom<Keybuk> do I need one?12:35
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mjg59Works better without12:36
thomFSVO works :-)12:36
mjg59His is the only machine I've found where it breaks this badly12:36
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thomhe's closed his laptop and is sulking now ;-)12:37
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mjg59Scott's laptop is broken in a wide variety of amusing ways12:37
thomincluding the STUPIDLY PLACED LID SWITCH12:38
mjg59Anyway, we can do this from userspace without using X12:38
mjg59So that's good enough12:38
=== thom &|
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shayaanyone know if there's a linux-restricted-modules to go w/ the 2.6.9 kernel floating around somewhere?12:46
Kamionshaya: not done yet AFAIK12:47
Kamionit's on daniels' to-do list12:48
Kamionhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/l-r-m/ has preliminary bits it seems12:48
Kamiondunno what state they're in though; they're from six days ago12:48
shayasplitting the packages up?12:51
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Kamionshaya: don't think so?12:55
Kamiondoesn't look split up to me12:55
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mirakthere is a bug with gnome-menus01:09
shayais there a way to make esd start wrapped by aoss?01:10
mjg59I've managed to get my X session entertainingly broken01:13
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mjg59Ok, that seems to approximately work01:21
mjg59I've added a new, heavily crack-laden acpi-support package to www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptpos/01:21
mjg59Make that www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/01:21
shayamjg59: where's the changelog?01:26
mjg59shaya: In the package01:27
shayamjg59: but what about us who dont want to install it to see it01:28
mjg59shaya: You can extract the control archive01:29
shayafor just look at the .tar.gz like I just did01:29
mjg59Yes, since it's a Debian-native package01:29
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jdodsonknock, knock.04:02
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lifelessdaniels: tarball time methinks.. please07:55
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danielslifeless: ok09:04
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danielsthom: last night I just got back and basically collapsed, sorry09:06
thomno worries09:06
thomfigured that was the case09:06
thomi have new GROOVY graphs09:06
danielsthom: are they also sexy?09:08
bob2mjg59: massive amounts of sleep love now I disabled ehci_hcd09:09
bob2it also reminds me that daniel had an oops when suspending while copying data to a usb2 disk09:09
danielsthom: .11/~daniels/09:11
carlosfabbione: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=219709:11
danielsthom: (Xorg and i810_drv.o)09:11
fabbionebob2: that's a problem in the scsi layer09:11
fabbionewe already have the fix09:11
thomdaniels: nod09:13
thomdaniels: what i have is all ready to upload,pretty much :-)09:14
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bob2fabbione: in -3?09:15
danielsthom: nice!09:15
danielsthom: what're the changes thus far?09:16
thomdaniels: well, depmod might need some cleaning ;-)09:16
danielsoooo, I see readahead09:16
bob2someone needs to unfuck gnome's hoary so I can dist-upgrade ;)09:16
thomdaniels: check out the vicious readahead in parallel with hotplug :-)09:16
danielsyeah, maybe the whole 'sh -x' thing might need to change ;)09:16
danielsthom: yeah, that's awesome :)09:16
danielswtf is hwclock spinning so much for, tho?09:16
Keybukthat's how it works09:17
Mithrandirthom: nice09:17
danielsKeybuk: oh?09:17
thomhwclock spins on the cpu until the end of the second09:17
danielsthom: can we defer cupsys to 21?09:18
Keybukgnome-cups-icon in user's session09:18
danielsthom: i reckon if we move it to 21 and you drop in the new X stuff, we can get it 40, or sub-40909:18
danielsKeybuk: so that will absolutely refuse to turn up if cupsys isn't up?09:18
thomi think so09:18
thomper user cups love! ;-)09:18
Keybukexactly, so if cups turns up a second later, you get no cups icon09:19
danielsmmm, that would be ill09:19
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danielsthom: losing postfix and a2 will obviously be a win also09:22
danielsthom: also, is it worth reading Xorg ahead?09:28
danielsthom: -rw-r--r--  1 daniels daniels 14M 2004-12-09 09:29 /home/daniels/public_html/xorg-trace09:29
thomdaniels: yeah, intend to09:29
thomoh, sweet09:29
thomcan you put that somewhere?09:29
thomi really need to trace gdmgreeter too, or will that be in the trace?09:29
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danielsthom: ... /home/daniels/public_html ...09:30
danielsthom: gdmgreeter isn't in there, no, I'll trace it later09:30
thomoh, duh09:30
danielsi'm doing one with -e trace=file now tho09:30
danielsthom: xorg-trace-file09:31
thomi did trace=open which was not quite right i guess09:31
thomdaniels: that has gdmgreeter? sweet09:31
danielsnot with gdmgreeter09:31
thomoh, right09:31
danielswow, it's psychopathic about /proc/bus/pci/devices09:31
danielsand stats all the drivers again ...09:32
danielswhat a hog09:32
danielsit's statting all the files in a loop.09:32
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/gdm/gdm- grep radeon_drv.o ~/public_html/xorg-trace-file | wc -l09:32
danielsthat's forty-one accesses to a driver I'm not even loading.09:32
fabbioneKamion: here?09:36
Kamionfabbione: yo09:37
haggaisorry, my network got confused during suspend/resume09:37
fabbioneKamion 09:37
fabbionedo we officially support pegagos2?09:37
haggai..and the suspend took 3 minutes BTW09:37
danielswhy does X use regexs?09:38
Kamionfabbione: not yet, no09:38
fabbioneKamion: i am going to kill that driver temporary. removing the name from d-i is enough fo make d-i happy again?09:38
Kamionfabbione: I should think we'll only do it if it's low-effort or contributed; I do plan to see if I can make it work in my spare time though09:38
Kamionfabbione: put a "-" in front of it in the d-i file09:38
Kamionthat makes the driver optional09:38
fabbioneKamion: ok thanks09:39
fabbionei will give it another hour love before reverting09:39
fabbionebut it doesn't compile yet.09:39
danielsfour loops that all read drivers in!  wa-hey!09:41
thomdaniels: that Xorg took way longer but it still has all the printing09:43
fabbionedaniels: taht could be the new autodetection thingy09:43
thomadded 8 seconds09:44
Mithrandirthom: what do you use for generating those graphs?09:44
thomrun from the top of inittab09:44
Mithrandirhm, have to install java, then09:46
danielsthom: er, yeah, the printing shouldn't have any performance impact09:46
danielsthom: really??09:46
thomMithrandir: i've just been uploading the logs ;-)09:47
Mithrandirheh, that should work as well, yes.09:49
thomi'm building it now before the poor guy kills me09:51
thomor trying to 09:51
thomgcj 3.3 appears not to have java.util.logging.Logger09:51
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thomdid i mention i hate java?09:54
Keybukmany times :)09:54
Keybukcupsys_1.1.20final+rc1-10ubuntu5_source.changes ACCEPTED09:54
Keybukwow, a mail from katie that's actually *intended* for me ... :o)09:54
bob2jdub: thom considered using the windows firefox icon instead of the plain planet one?10:00
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jdubbob2: that's a trademark issue more than a platform issue :)10:01
bob2oh, suck10:04
bob2that's highly obnoxious10:04
=== Keybuk giggles at lamont's attempt to speed postfix up
Keybuks/postfix/nullmailer/ -- yay, five whole seconds10:07
=== lamont_r bitchslaps Keybuk
bob2jdub: what does the HIG say about "escape" in a dialog?  it should exit?10:09
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/xorg/arch/pristine/xorg-6.8.1/build-tree/xc/programs/Xserver% grep radeon_drv xorg.trace | wc -l10:10
Keybukbob2: escape tends to be bound to cancel, but I don't think the HIG is specific about it10:14
Keybukit doesn't make a huge amount of sense in instant-apply dialogs10:14
bob2just talking to a windows user who's pointing out possibly confusing things10:15
jdubbob2: there's an argument about it going on. :)10:16
KeybukI think the general theory is that if you dialog *has* Escape/Cancel functionality, you bind the key to the Cancel button ... e.g. the Open/Save dialogs10:16
Keybukbut Instant-Apply dialogs which only have Close use Enter, as you can't escape from them10:17
Keybuk...though a argh-put-it-all-back-how-it-was escape functionality for i-a dialogs would be cute10:19
Keybukbut Jeff might beat me up for saying that10:19
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pittijdub, thom: we need a name for this hardware detection thingy10:24
pittijdub, thom: what about hwfu?10:25
fabbioneKamion: i got the driver to compile10:25
Kamionfabbione: bonus10:25
Mithrandiron the basis of it ripping through your hardware.10:26
fabbioneKamion: :-)10:26
pitti"Ubuntu Unified Python Hardware Detection and XMLification Extensible Framework"10:27
=== lamont_r waits for jdub/mdz to decide whether to put efibootmgr or elilo into main
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lamont_rpitti: UUPHDaXEF?10:29
pittilamont_r: easy to pronounce, right?10:29
lamont_rmaybe for you Germans...10:30
azeemat least for those playing in humpa-bands10:30
Mithrandirthat could almost have been one of my hostnames.10:30
KeybukPython Hardware Autodetection Tool10:30
lamont_rKeybuk: PyHAT?10:31
pittiKeybuk: this sounds good10:31
lamont_rPedantic HW detection tool?10:31
lamont_rshouldn't really have the language name in the name.10:31
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pittiKeybuk: btw, it does not really detect hw, it only calls several backends which do and unifies them into an XML output10:32
Keybukso basically it converts /sys into XML?10:32
pittiKeybuk: not only /sys, but also /proc/foo, dmidecode, hal, whatever10:32
pittiKeybuk: I wrote a plugin architecture to make it expandable easily10:33
ograsee here, it uses the ouptunt of the named tools: https://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HardwareDatabase 10:33
Mithrandirwhy XML?10:33
Mithrandirxml is so icky10:33
Mithrandirgives me scratches10:33
pittiKeybuk: this is supposed to unify d-i's, X's and base's HW detection10:33
pittiMithrandir: easy to throw into dbs10:33
pittiMithrandir: easy to process10:33
pittiMithrandir: standard format, works with many tools10:34
pittiMithrandir: why _not_ XML? What to take instead?10:34
Mithrandirpitti: have you worked much with XML?10:34
Keybukwhy base's?10:34
pittiMithrandir: enough to like it :-)10:34
Mithrandirbut not enough to really, really dislike it, I understand.10:34
Keybukthe kernel does hardware detection in base10:34
pittiKeybuk: it's not really kernel detection10:34
pittiKeybuk: it's supposed to become a large hardware database10:35
pittiKeybuk: devices which are supported/not supported by Ubuntu10:35
pittiKeybuk: it could say "this laptop works fine", "S3 does not work with this BIOS", etc.10:35
pittiKeybuk: also it could help X configuration, like "widescreen is not detected on this laptop"10:35
thompitti: ZDHW10:36
pitti-> yesterday's bof10:36
pittithom: zero day hard ware?10:36
fabbionelamont_r, elmo: 10:36
fabbionesparcbuildd@vultus5:~$ wanna-build --list=needs-build10:36
fabbioneTotal 0 package(s)10:36
ograzero data10:36
pittithom: what does "zero day" mean?10:36
fabbionethis is golden :-)10:36
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pittifabbione: congrats10:36
fabbionewe only need the last X from danicrack to give back a few packages10:36
lamont_rpitti: in theory, the answers you want are there the day your hardware is purchasable10:36
thompitti: like zero day warez or sploits10:36
sivangfabbione : recalling you asked for my key, aren't we going to have a key signing party?10:37
pittisivang: tomorrow evening10:37
lamont_rfabbione: is that phase2, and just main, or did it finally finish universe?10:37
ograsivang: dont forget to print your keylist !10:37
sivangogra : I won't! Thanks for reminding me :-))10:38
=== lamont_r upgrades, prepares to need to track seb128 down....
fabbionelamont_r: phase2 main10:38
lamont_rfabbione: nice10:39
Treenakslamont_r: just shout his name very, very loudly10:39
fabbionesivang: yes.. i understood you were going to leave before that10:39
=== daniels ditches a lazy 3500 stat() calls from X startup.
fabbionesivang: but @ the keysign is ok with me10:39
Treenaksdaniels: uh.. how many?10:39
fabbionedaniels: i need X sometime soon10:39
seb128lamont_r, just take a ticket and wait for your turn, a lot of people want to track me down first apparently :p10:40
=== lamont_r curses at *&)%&*_(^( metacity again
danielsTreenaks: three thousand five hundred10:40
danielsfabbione: will upload before lunch10:40
fabbionedaniels: thanks10:41
danielsalso just ditched 150 open()s.10:41
Treenaksdaniels: ho-ly cow on crack10:41
daniels  5702 /home/daniels/public_html/xorg-trace-file10:41
daniels  1904 xorg.trace-104010:41
daniels(before and after, looking at file accesses)10:41
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lamont_rdaniels: and 150 closes? or were the opens all failures?10:46
danielslamont_r: 150 open/close cycles10:47
danielsNOT ANY MORE10:47
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root_fabbione: aren't there any 686 linux-restricted-kernel for 2.69?10:53
fabbioneroot_: daniels is working on l-r-m10:53
fabbioneif they are not there, they are not there yet10:54
fabbionepatience... it's hoary10:54
ograwow, 2.69 ? thats nice :)10:54
root_I love to wait10:55
root_thx for ur info10:55
jdubKeybuk: i have no opinion on the dialogue escape stuff10:57
KeybukI think the current mix is about right ... I don't think I've ever hit Escape and have nothing happen, yet I'm sure I do hit Escape from time to time10:58
Keybukso it must work where I expect it to10:58
sivangfabbione : I'll be here tommorow eveing  , I guess I missunderstood.11:00
jdublamont: ooh, what were the postfix startup fixes?11:01
sivangogra : how do I install the naked lady artwork? :)11:05
=== sivang didn't know it even existed till seeing it on ogra's laptop
Mithrandirsivang: install ubuntu-calendar11:06
Mithrandirand then change to "ubuntu monthly calendar" background11:06
Keybukthom: \o/ udev 04[78]  includes the udevd-as-hotplug patches11:07
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sivangMithrandir : thaks alot!11:08
Keybuk048 being a brown-paper-bag "oops, that didn't build" of 04711:08
Keybuk - wait_for_sysfs is now gone.11:08
Keybuk Oh, happy day...11:08
=== Keybuk will play with that this afternoon, then
KamionKeybuk: rock!11:09
thomfabbione: !!!!!!11:12
thom11:11 /tmp% sudo invoke-rc.d dbus-1 restart11:12
thom * Restarting system message bus...11:12
thom * Stopping Hardware abstraction layer:                                  [ ok ] 11:12
thom * Starting Hardware abstraction layer:11:12
thom11:12:05.020 [W]  hald.c:302: Your kernel does not support capabilities; some features will not be available.                               11:13
thomii  linux-image-2.6.9-1-686        2.6.9-311:13
pittithom: you know how to beat up :-)11:13
Kamionhm, I wonder if waldi was mistaken when I was talking to him about multi-component d-i Packages files11:13
KamionI don't see where the problem would be ...11:13
=== elmo quietly adds a "hard loop doing nothing for 29 seconds" init.d script to ed
danielsyet more proof that ed is crap11:14
fabbionethom: doh!11:14
pittithom: works fine on linux-image-2.6.9-1-powerpc11:14
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=== Mithrandir twaps the gw
Treenaksah so it's not just me11:15
fabbionethom: let me check here11:15
=== Keybuk is amused that Mithrandir it telling people on a remote-server that he's tapping the gateway for not working
fabbionethom: no errors here11:15
Keybukand then realises, that as he can see Mithrandir doing that, the problem is more subtle than the line just dropping11:15
Treenaksdns crap11:16
Keybukno, isn't dns11:16
Treenakswhat is it then?11:16
Kamionoh, but I can't test because there's no l-r-m 2.6.9 yet, gah11:16
Keybuknew connections in general aren't happening11:16
danielsseems to be drop SYN on the floor11:16
thomrouting new connections go boom11:16
fabbioneKamion: ask daniles :-)11:16
danielsKamion: bleh11:17
Treenakseven connections to the proxy?11:17
Keybukisn't just SYN11:17
KeybukICMP isn't happening either11:17
thomISP breakage11:17
Mithrandirthom: NAT table overflow?11:17
elmoit did this yesterday too11:17
Keybukback now, anyway11:17
elmoit'll resolve itself in a bit probably11:17
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seb128lamont_r, #4495 ?11:18
=== lamont_r goes to look
seb128lamont_r, on which arch ?11:18
bob2"the ISP died for our sins"11:18
seb128lamont_r, according to the build log that's ok (out of ia64)11:18
=== daniels shakes his fist at joke stealers.
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lamont_rseb128: yeah - ia64.. but the error sure looked generic...11:20
=== lamont_r runs a build on his machine
lamont_rjdub: postfix goes kinda paranoid at startup... I commented out the checks. :-)11:22
lamont_rseb128: it's because xorg hasn't built on ia64 yet.11:22
seb128lamont_r, so, I'm supposed to do something with the build-dep ? or we just wait ?11:23
jdublamont_r: hrm. would wietse kill you?11:23
lamont_rjdub: it's ubuntu-only. :-(11:23
lamont_rseb128: we should beat on doko11:23
seb128ok :)11:23
=== lamont_r will deal with the bug.
jdublamont_r: is it sane on servers?11:24
lamont_rjdub: probably more so than on desktops.11:24
lamont_rservers tend to shutdown nicely.11:25
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jdubbut when they haven't, you want them to start up paranoid :)11:26
lamont_rbut, yeah. it should really schedule a postfix check run for some point in the future...11:26
lamont_rhrm... cron.daily here we come.. :-)11:27
lamont_rjdub: it's the part that runs through the entirety of /var/spool/postfix and does sanity checks on it.11:28
lamont_rso yeah, it should really be scheduled to happen sometime..11:28
elmokamion/fabbione/mdz/anyonewhocares: anastacia wants to demote ** to universe - ok?11:28
jdublamont_r: you can do that at any time, right?11:28
lamont_rjdub: exactly11:29
Kamionelmo: might be nice to wait for 2.6.9 l-r-m11:29
Kamionotherwise *shrug* as far as I'm concerned11:29
dokolamont_r: I'll do the merge today. found the bug, testing a fix11:29
lamont_rI suppose it's possible that email that was in the system _might_ wind up being magically deferred until it is run.11:29
jdublamont_r: maybe start postfix and add another init at the end for the check?11:30
lamont_rjdub: I like that...11:30
lamont_rend of rc2?11:30
jdubi guess11:31
danielslamont_r: um, dude, xorg should've built on ia64 long ago11:31
lamont_rdaniels: should is the operative word there.11:31
danielsthom: /~daniels/gdm-greeter-strace11:31
danielslamont_r: anything I need to do?11:31
danielsthom: (.11)11:31
lamont_rdaniels: help doko? :-)11:32
lamont_rglibc is ftbfs, doko's going to upload a fix soon11:32
thomi just fixored my hdparm settings (all this was with default hdparm so far)11:32
lamont_rthen all will proceed according to the master plan.11:32
jdubthom: eeek!11:32
fabbioneMithrandir: swig1.3-1.3.22 is a FTBFS on 4/5 arches11:32
Mithrandirfabbione: ew.11:32
danielslamont_r: ah, right11:32
fabbioneMithrandir: mind to take a look to it since you did the last uplaod?11:32
Mithrandirdon't we have gcj on all arches?11:33
fabbionei think it's related to the version11:33
lamont_rMithrandir: gcc-3.4 is still waiting for a working binutils on i386, which is tcl8.4 bug11:34
dokoMithrandir: shoud be there for all arhcs.11:34
Mithrandirfabbione: it's really depwait, then11:34
Mithrandirlamont_r: it ftbfs on !i38611:35
lamont_rthat's because i386 builds arch-all, and therefore life sucks on !i38611:35
kanto_socough, cough too freezing here, a gift for all developers in X-mas, work and listen to musics from LimeWire, I love u guys all11:38
Mithrandirlamont: ok, so it should magically fix itself in a little while, or you need to tickle it?11:38
lamont_rI think I have to kick it.11:38
mjg59bob2: Ok, my latest acpi-support stuff unloads USB modules11:38
Mithrandiris haggai around still?11:39
kanto_somjg59, are u Herbert Xu?11:39
Mithrandirkanto_so: no, he's Matthew Garret11:39
MithrandirXu doesn't irc.11:39
lamont_rKeybuk: got a second?11:40
=== lamont_r wanders
Keybukyou don't have five though :p11:40
fabbionemjg59: does that require more kernel love?11:40
haggaiMithrandir: here11:41
Kamionkanto_so: /whois is your friend11:41
Mithrandirhaggai: did you or rene get anywhere with the ooo-vfs dependency we discussed?11:41
bob2mjg59: woo, cool11:42
haggaiMithrandir: uuh, what was I supposed to do?11:42
Mithrandirhaggai: make ooo-bin not depend on gnomevfs. :)11:42
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haggaiMithrandir: ah, _rene_'s dirty hack :)  I think he looked at it but I don't remember seeing any checkin11:42
MithrandirI think you possibly punted it to _rene_ 11:42
Mithrandir_rene_: around?11:43
haggaino, he'll be at college11:43
MithrandirI'll take a look, then.. *grumble*  ooo takes _forever_ to build.11:43
mjg59fabbione: Nope11:44
=== GheRivero [~god@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
haggaiMithrandir: if you want to look then lets discuss it together11:44
mjg59fabbione: One thing it /might/ be worth looking at in future is the experimental USB suspend/resume support11:44
haggaiMithrandir: where are you?11:44
haggaimjg59: the network module unload stuff didn't work for my card because there is no driver entry in sys for the card11:45
lamont_rjdub: on further thought and discussion...  I'm going to redo that a bit...11:45
Mithrandirhaggai: hack room.11:45
Mithrandirhaggai: you're downstairs?11:45
haggaiMithrandir: yes11:45
MithrandirI'll come down11:46
Keybukthom: it looks like simply issuing udevstart in the udev init script is sufficient to cause hotplug to happen \o/11:46
=== mojo [~Adam@220-244-212-78-vic.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59haggai: Hm. How so?11:46
thomKeybuk: score!11:46
mjg59haggai: Built in or PCMCIA?11:47
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jdublamont_r: :-)11:50
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robtaylorso. what are the plans for tonight? i'll be getting into mataro some point this evening :)11:55
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fabbionemjg59: yes.. i saw the option but the help text scared me a bit to enable it right now11:59
fabbioneis mdz close to anybody?12:00
=== Keybuk remembers to remove udevsend from /etc/hotplug.d ...ho-gum
TreenaksKeybuk: it's better to remember it now than at some other time at which we'd have to hit you...12:02
Keybuk*whimper* don't hit me ... I'm fragile12:03
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silbsfabbione: I'm sitting next to mdz - need him?12:13
fabbionesilbs: can you ask him to join irc when he has time please?12:14
=== mdz [~mdz@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionehey mdz12:16
fabbionemdz: the scsi fix appears not to be the only one needed12:16
fabbionewilly has been locking at it too12:17
fabbionei might as well ask him later today (when he is awake) what's the best one around12:17
fabbioneanyway the patch we found is applied12:19
mdzI am in the middle of a BOF at the moment12:19
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsKeybuk: how'd it go?12:21
Keybukok ... so it helps if I actually start udevd in the initscript12:21
Keybukthough I don't see why udevstart isn't starting it12:23
rburtondaniels: so the fd.o bugzilla isn't mailing me when there are changes to bugs i'm CCd on12:25
danielsrburton: interesting, it should be12:25
danielsdaniels@gabe:~% sudo grep burtonini /var/log/mail.log12:26
danielsDec  8 12:35:48 gabe postfix/smtp[5691] : 6B9659E8CE: to=<ross@burtonini.com>, relay=mail.burtonini.com[] , delay=4, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as C4AF7581A)12:26
seb128daniels, just use "ross" you will get a list of the names matching it12:26
danielsi count 4 mails that have gone to you in the last 24h12:26
danielsseb128: yeah, and all the spam that uses generic names12:26
danielsDec  9 00:42:42 gabe postfix/smtp[1383] : B793B9E7C7: to=<ross@keithp.com>, relay=mail.keithp.com[] , delay=14, status=bounced (host mail.keithp.com[]  said: 550 Unknown local part ross in <ross@keithp.com> (in reply to RCPT TO command))12:26
rburtondaniels: argh12:27
rburtonthom: ping?12:27
danielsrburton: he's next to me12:29
rburtondaniels: poke him and tell him to check amnesiac12:30
haggaiok folks, quick survey please12:30
haggairun: dmesg | grep "Simple Boot"12:31
haggaiif you do not see a message like12:31
haggaiSimple Boot Flag at 0x<foo> set to 0x112:31
haggaiyou are not benefiting from the fastboot spec and we'd like to know why12:31
Mithrandir: tfheen@thosu ~ > dmesg | grep "Simple Boot"12:32
MithrandirSimple Boot Flag at 0x35 set to 0x112:32
MithrandirX40 love!12:32
haggaithe 0x1 means you have a PNP Bios and everything is fine and fastboot will happen next time you boot12:32
danielsMithrandir: simple boot?12:32
danielsSimple Boot Flag at 0x35 set to 0x112:32
danielsx40 4 lyf12:33
Mithrandirdaniels: see what haggai wrote.12:33
fabbionex40 is the gayest lappy i have ever seen12:33
lamont_rdaniels: you know that you're going to fall in love with a new model long before you die...12:33
fabbioneeven daniels has one...12:33
fabbionei mean12:33
mdzlamont_r: ?12:33
Treenakshmm... mozilla people are _weird_12:33
lamont_relilo Depends: efibootmgr.12:33
lamont_rso I think we seed elilo, and it all works out from there...12:33
ograhaggai: if your system runs already a little loger it should be: cat  /var/log/dmesg | grep "Simple Boot"12:34
rburtonwhat's fastboot?12:34
haggaiogra: heh, good point12:34
lamont_rrburton: that's where things boot fast.12:34
rburtonlamont_r: aah i see ;)12:34
haggairburton: tells the BIOS that everything's good and not to bother checking/initing the hardware -> faster boot12:34
lamont_rrburton: effort is being made to speed up the users boot experience12:34
mdzlamont_r: ok, sounds good.  go ahead and add it to the seed12:35
lamont_rwill do.12:35
rburtonhaggai: oh nice. is this only in hoary?12:35
lamont_rrburton: as opposed to?12:36
rburtonwarty and sid12:36
lamont_rdunno about sid, but warty is _DONE_.12:37
rburtonyeah, i was wondering if fastboot was in warty, or can i turn it on, or what12:37
=== Mithrandir hugs emacs' diff-mode
=== mjg59 discovers that his PCI ID stuff is /still/ wrong
lamont_rthe hardware/bios fastboot is there regardless of the OS...  setting it is the only question12:38
fabbionemdz: what is the bug number you opened on bugzilla for the scsi stuff?12:38
rburtonlamont_r: ah i see.12:38
haggairburton: that's what I want to know.. how widespread is the support and where it is not already working12:40
haggairburton: if you get the message then you are ok12:40
rburtoni seeee12:41
rburtonhaggai: my X22 sets 0x35 to 0x112:41
Mithrandirhaggai: wrapping one-line code in #ifdef USE_GNOMEVFS feels so useful. ;)12:42
thomrburton: bugzilla on freedesktop sending bad headers12:44
rburtonthom: thanks12:44
haggaiMithrandir: hehe12:44
=== rburton slaps daniels
rburtonthom: hadess mailed me last night too, can you grep for hadess? :)12:45
haggairburton: as I said, that's fine12:45
thomrburton: daniels is gonna look when he stops playing with fonts, i think12:45
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=== sid77 hi
=== jdub_ [~jdub@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== GheRivero [~god@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont_rthom: ECHAN?12:53
lamont_rin the other one, that is.12:53
danielsthom: In-Reply-To: <bug-2039@bugs.freedesktop.org>12:53
danielsthom: hth hand kthxbye12:53
mjg59daniels: vm86-video-post now actually gets the PCI ID calculation right12:54
mjg59I've still no idea why it fucks up on so many machines, though12:54
mjg59daniels: But you should be able to disable VBERestore in X, I hope12:55
danielsthom: should be a test comment flowing through now12:55
danielsmjg59: how were you doing the pci id calculation?12:55
mjg59daniels: Shifting one bit too far to the left12:55
Mithrandirhaggai: I should be able to rip out both the section below "hack" and most of the one after the next comment as well, right?12:55
mjg59Which gave nice looking answers that were wrong12:56
mjg59The answers now look ugly, but are right12:56
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thomlamont_r: ah, yeah01:02
=== daniels smashes another 900 file access from Xorg; down from ~5700 to 1093 on startup.
danielsrburton: thom and I are looking at it01:05
daniels  5702 /home/daniels/public_html/xorg-trace-file01:06
daniels  1093 xorg.trace-130301:06
=== daniels giggles.
rburtonthat's just silly01:07
lamont_rrburton: that it was that wasteful before, certainly. :-)01:07
lamont_ralthough I have to wonder exactly what daniels is ripping out.......01:08
rburtonlamont_r: i think before he started he put some loops in which opened files repeatedly so it looks good when he removes them01:09
=== thom giggles at rburton
=== sid77 [~sid77@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sid77 re
seb128daniels, should I open a bug (as a reminder) against X.org about that m"t"'$tm resolution on my laptop or that's ok and you keep it in mind ?01:12
Treenaksseb128: m"t"'$tm resolution?01:13
seb128Treenaks, don't bother, that's for daniels 01:13
Keybukhmm... nothing I'm poking into udevsend seems to be coming out in udev01:15
danielsseb128: i'll close it as a duplicate of 'i855: catch-all for terrible VBE implementations'01:15
danielsseb128: it's really not something we can fix, sadly01:15
danielsnot without NDAs from 40 different BIOS vendors01:16
danielslamont_r: silly sleeps from i810, and kicking the current loader in the testicles01:16
seb128is there any way to workaround it on my box with this 855resolution stuff ? 01:16
danielsseb128: apparently, but if it doesn't work ... i don't know01:16
seb128ok, thanks01:16
seb128I'll google a bit about it, perhaps there is some useful pointer hidden somewhere :)01:17
danielssorry I'm not more useful01:17
seb128np, not your fault01:17
Keybuk(yay at disgusting sandwiches ... FOOD FIGHT!)01:17
bob2lunch was one thing oxford did well01:19
elmothat and the Crowded House in the lobby01:20
bob2don't dreaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam it's over01:21
plovsmdz, did you report the bug to zwiki, if not i will01:28
danielsdo not talk about summer pudding unless you are buying it for me01:29
=== Mithrandir wonders where the hidden speed_up_compile_immensely switch for OOo is.
=== trukulo [~mzarza@26.Red-81-45-239.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
haggaiMithrandir: yup01:33
haggaiMithrandir: it's called DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=ccache01:34
haggaiMithrandir: can you punt me your mods over and I'll check them?  I could even test them against my prebuilt tree01:35
Mithrandirjust a sec01:36
=== Keybuk wonders where the hidden "make this work" switch is
=== jamesh [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
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=== carlos [~carlos@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirhaggai: http://err.no/tmp/rules and http://err.no/tmp/vfs-uno-uri.diff01:42
mjg59daniels: Does dropping VBERestore significantly help things, then?01:43
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danielsmjg59: ah, right, heh.  i'd imagine we could ditch vberestore in that case, then.01:44
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mjg59I'll need a test machine to be sure of this, but I think it can probably be dropped if my stuff actually works01:46
mjg59(which it seems to)01:46
=== sid77 re
Mithrandirhaggai: *prod*01:52
Keybuksyndicate udev: run_program: running /etc/hotplug.d/default/default.hotplug01:52
Mithrandirthom/keybuk: could either of you prod haggai to look at his IRC screen?01:54
Keybuknowhere near him01:55
thomMithrandir: he's away from his laptop01:58
Mithrandirhow useless01:59
seb128thom, where is everybody ?02:01
seb1282 people in the BOF room atm02:01
seb128where are you guys :)02:01
thomdaniels, mvo, me are in the downstairs room02:01
thomquiet room in guess?02:01
seb128probably yep02:02
Kamiononly three in the quiet room02:16
sjoerd6 in the hacking room...02:17
Keybukthom: did you know that hotplug doesn't invoke the hal or udev-fu when it starts?02:20
=== mdz_ [~mdz@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomKeybuk: how do you mean?02:24
Treenaksshould "dbus-monitor --system" work?02:24
MithrandirTreenaks: dbus-monitor is broken, iirc02:25
Keybukwell, because it execs the agent directly it never runs anything else in /etc/hotplug.d02:25
TreenaksMithrandir: that explains it02:25
danielsDear Bong, 02:27
danielsYour business with IBM Developer Kit for Linux, Java 202:27
daniels            Technology Edition is very important to us.  We are sorry that your 02:27
danielsprevious transaction with us did not go through.  We have fixed this 02:27
danielserror in your account.  Please return to the IBM Developer Kit for Linux, Java 202:27
daniels            Technology Edition web site to resubmit 02:27
danielsyour transaction.  Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience.02:27
thomKeybuk: hrm, interesting02:27
Keybukwas the the Aieezheikawopostan one?02:28
danielsTreenaks: in warty, maybe (probably not); in hoary, yes02:28
danielsMithrandir: works in hoary02:28
danielsKeybuk: azerbaijan?02:28
danielsyeah, that was azerbaijan02:28
danielsthey never mailed my so-called australian one, though02:28
daniels(or was it US?)02:29
Treenaksdaniels: in hoary it's b0rken02:31
Treenaksdaniels: it tells me:02:31
Treenaks8094: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "(error) == NULL || !dbus_error_is_set ((error))" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 1999.02:31
TreenaksThis is normally a bug in some application using the D-BUS library.02:31
TreenaksFailed to set up match "dbus-monitor": 02:31
lamont_rKamion: now we're up to not finding d-i modules:-)02:37
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=== trulux [~lorenzo@67.Red-80-25-56.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirrock, "Welkom bij Mozilla Thunderbird"02:40
truluxdoko, ping02:42
MithrandirTreenaks: I'd appreciate if you could test m-t-l-nl when it hits the archive (approx 30min to 1hour, I think.)02:43
TreenaksMithrandir: ok, I think02:44
thommjg59: dude, you gonna package netapplet 1.0?02:53
mjg59thom: Oh, is it out?02:53
mjg59It is. Hot damn.02:53
mjg59Still without a changelog02:54
thomi love answers like that02:54
=== thom starts hacking
mjg59thom: Only difference to 0.99.4 seems to be gettext02:58
mjg59Oh, and netline has been removed02:58
mjg59Yeah, basically it's just translations between 0.99.4 and 1.002:59
truluxlamont, ping03:00
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=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang [~sivang@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukman... 14.8s -> 0.4s ... I RULE!03:05
TreenaksKeybuk: 0.4s to generate an error message? :)03:06
Keybuknope, is actually loading all the PCI modules and stuff03:06
ograKeybuk: you rule !03:07
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-155-172-150.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburtonKeybuk: hotplug?03:07
rburtoni get totally bored when hotplug starts on my x2203:08
ograrburton: so get a faster laptop with less hw :-P03:09
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont_rtrulux: yo03:12
truluxhey lamont_r !03:12
truluxlamont_r, i've got an ubuntu-running box03:12
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
truluxP4, a lot of mem, 120G hd, only for Ubuntu and sarge03:13
truluxlamont_r, i have a few questions about Ubuntu, mainly why fonts look weird in the crt screen03:14
truluxi want to get a lcd panel for that box but still using a hp mx7003:14
lamont_rthose would be #ubuntu questions03:14
truluxkay, then next questions about dev03:16
truluxbtw, my cd was broken and i had a real pain using it03:16
truluxlamont_r, the selinux packages create conflicts with gnome03:16
truluxtseng, ping03:17
lamont_rbummer.  selinux isn't in main03:17
truluxalso, i think i'm going to send a bug report about adding some patches to the linux-sources03:18
truluxand maybe about bootsplash, which i've made some optimized pkgs03:18
Kamionwe're not going to be using bootsplash.03:19
truluxin the other hand, usb support seems broken in my box, my slim disk (ide-to-usb) doesn't work (it's just a simple usb-storage compliant dev)03:19
truluxKamion, why? it's eye-candy for new users03:20
Kamionbootsplash broke our installer.03:20
Kamionlast time we tried this03:20
Kamionwe're doing a pure user-space solution instead03:20
Mithrandirtrulux: we'll use other, better crack03:20
fabbionetrulux: what kernel are you running?03:20
truluxi mean not in the installer, i mean in the linux-sources pkgs03:20
Kamionthe installer uses the stock kernel; we are not going to change that, sorry03:20
truluxfabbione, (my own)03:20
truluxKamion, ok03:20
fabbionetrulux: if it's broken why would you open a bug on our linux-source?03:21
truluxno, it's about it03:21
fabbionebootsplash will stay outside the kernel03:21
truluxi mean about other things, mainly security-related patches03:21
fabbionetrulux: such as which one?03:21
truluxfabbione, kay, i'm not talking about it now03:22
fabbionetrulux: i am the temporary kernel maintainer03:22
truluxfabbione, openswan ipsec stack03:22
fabbioneso either you tell me what is about03:22
fabbionethat's not security03:22
fabbionethese are enanchment03:22
truluxgrsecurity (when it comes available)03:22
truluxfabbione, yep03:22
fabbionebut it's not security03:22
truluxfabbione, let me find you the patches03:22
fabbioneipsec is already in the kernel dude03:23
Mithrandirah, new X crack.03:23
fabbioneMithrandir: yup03:23
fabbionefinally it will unlock a bunch of packages on sparc03:23
=== Kamion adds ia64 stuff to the seeds
=== lamont_r ^5s Kamion
fabbioneKamion: want to start adding sparc too?03:24
Mithrandirlamont_r: what's the problem with mono stuff?03:24
truluxfabbione, not the openswan stack03:24
truluxkernel ipsec stack is different03:24
lamont_rMithrandir: source package?03:24
Mithrandirlamont_r: mono03:24
lamont_r2.6 kernel openswan was using native kernel stuff (no patch), I thought03:25
Kamionfabbione: will do later, want to check with elmo what'll happen if I seed sparc stuff though03:25
Mithrandirlamont_r: unupgradeable since a few days, you mumbled "universe" when somebody talked about it two days ago03:25
lamont_rMithrandir: right.  let me check03:25
fabbionelamont_r: so did I03:25
fabbioneKamion: sure :-)03:25
fabbioneprobably the implementation is different, but for christ sick the RFC's are the same03:25
fabbioneactually i should ask Iari about it03:27
lamont_rMithrandir: mcs is version 1.0.2, needs to be 1.0.4, it would appear.03:30
Mithrandirlamont_r: ok, so Debian's broken as well?03:31
lamont_rsure looks that way03:34
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lup|gonedaniels you there?03:38
danielslup|gone: sup03:39
lup|goneI was looking at your bootcharts03:40
lup|goneand I wondered why like windows you can't start network stuff after X is started03:40
danielsa large part of it is hostname changing, but we can hack around it03:47
danielswe've been seriously considering it03:47
lup|goneseems like almost 10 sec03:48
lup|gonethe pc is doing almost nothing :s03:48
thomwith udevsend that becomes async03:50
sjoerdthom: going to do ifup from dev.d ?03:51
thomsjoerd: i think that's gonna be how it winds up, yeah03:52
thomscott's boot currently is "interesting"03:52
Mithrandirthom: how so?03:52
thomMithrandir: a stack of stuff now runs before their modules are loaded ;-)03:53
=== loogaroo [sockd@h195202157016.moe.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lup|gonedoes hotplug start the scripts parallel ?03:54
sjoerdudevd doing hotplug stuff serializes the stuff that depends on eachother.. the rest runs parallel03:55
Mithrandirelmo_away: please sync autofs04:01
Mithrandiranybody know where elmo is?04:02
KamionMithrandir: he's not feeling well; went to his room for a nap04:04
MithrandirI guess saying "please sync" and assigning the bug to him ought to work, then.04:05
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seb128elmo_away, gnome2-user-docs sync please04:14
=== sjoerd goes to slay a kiwi
Treenakssjoerd: do it on the wiki04:17
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daniels  1093 xorg.trace-130304:25
daniels   877 xorg.trace-162504:25
danielsthat's a micro-optimisation at this point, but ber04:25
=== daniels goes looking for other optimisations.
danielsthom: .11/~daniels/Xorg, as usual04:26
thomgonna finish bootchart packaging04:26
thomis there a "real" way of modifiying inittab?04:27
danielsin postinst/whatever?04:27
thomi don't really want to just apply a patch in the postinst04:28
thombut i guess i will04:28
danielsand we ditch another 80 open()s (not stat()s) by sanitising font configuration04:29
lup|goneso when gdmgreeter ends the user sees the gdmlogin window?04:29
jdub_I CAN SMELL ROCKING :)04:29
thomlup|gone: basically yes04:29
daniels(and another 100 by sanitising extension configuration ...)04:30
danielslup|gone: yeah04:30
thomwe're not gonna get much faster than 35-40 secs on the x40 i think04:30
danielsthom: .11/~daniels/xorg.conf for superstreamlined configuration04:30
daniels(with no functionality loss)04:30
mjg59thom: 35-40 seconds until what?04:30
danielsmjg59: boot -> gdm login screen04:30
thommjg59: start of rcS -> end of rc204:30
mjg59But gdm could be moved further up rc2?04:31
thommjg59: it's at 13 already04:31
mjg59thom: Uh. So is 40 seconds end of rc2 or appearance of login window?04:31
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thommjg59: there's maybe a second's difference between those here04:32
mjg59thom: Really? Wow.04:32
mjg59But that's now in parallel, rather than in series, I guess04:32
mjg59Are you doing any readahead yet?04:33
Keybukudevd is cute, it parallelises events on different DEVPATH, but serialises events on the same04:34
thommjg59: http://www.planetarytramp.net/bootchart/bootchart-20041209-1318.png04:34
danielshmm, down to 571 now04:35
mjg59(Incidentally, how does this compare to FC?)04:35
thommjg59: we're smacking the crap out of the numbers we can find04:35
danielsthat's a 90% saving04:35
mjg59thom: That's some pretty fucking solid disk i/o04:35
thommjg59: yeah04:35
mjg59Any idea how much of it's thrash?04:35
thommjg59: i imagine much of the readahead is seek, but besides that i can't really tell04:36
mjg59And this is on an X40?04:36
mjg59With a 4200RPM disk?04:36
mjg59How's the readahead configured?04:36
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Keybukthom: fuck yeah, cupsd's init is totally nuked off that :p04:36
thompretty manually right now - we've straced X, gdm, gdmgreeter, cupsys and worked out what they're opening04:37
lup|gonedaniels you said in your blogs about some issues with gdm speed what do you exactly mean by that?04:37
mjg59Hrm. Should the readahead be carrying on past rc2?04:38
thommjg59: bit under a thousand files in the readahead04:38
thomideally not04:38
mjg59That looks like it'd thrash heavily for 7 seconds or so04:38
mjg59Eurgh. Yeah, you're getting readahead during X startup.04:38
mjg59That can't be good.04:38
thomyou'll note that there's no network startup in that chart - with that readahead and network finish about the same time04:39
mjg59Maybe rc2 should block until readahead is done?04:39
thomyeah, i think something like that04:39
mjg59Just drop something into rc2.d at the start04:39
mjg59I love how ipw2100 is a good 2 seconds of D state04:39
mjg59Must be firmware loading04:40
thomyou should see scott's soundcard load04:40
thomthere's a bootchart-keybuk-1.png in that dir04:40
mjg59keybuk's bootchart is teh suckitude04:40
mjg59Oh, the 10 seconds of nothing are waiting for DHCP...04:41
mjg59That should so be backgrounded, and individual scripts block if necessary04:41
danielslup|gone: it seems to take a *lot* of CPU04:41
danielsmjg59: right04:41
Keybukoh, dhcp is gone from my boot now :p04:41
thomwe're talking about dependency init04:41
thomit's where this is going, totally04:41
mjg59HOLY SHIT04:41
mjg59How does it manage 10 seconds of module loading?04:42
Keybuk*shrug* that alsa driver sucks04:42
thomthat's the soundcard of death04:42
mjg59What's it trying to do? Copy the entire OS over a single wire bus?04:42
Keybukthere's probably sleep(10) in there or something04:43
lup|goneI wonder if hotplug can't start parallel to X04:43
danielsno, it's spinning the entire time, innit?04:43
mjg59I'm amused at how you're micro-optimising it on machines that are probably going to be rebooted something like once a month in normal usage04:43
azeemit plays the free software song muted to check the card, I assume04:43
danielslup|gone: think: sound04:43
mjg59daniels: Kernel-space sleep spins04:43
lup|gonewhy sound?04:43
mjg59On the other hand, you can't sleep for more than 0.1 seconds in the kernel now04:43
mjg59There's a magic macro that breaks it04:43
lup|gonegdmgreeter needs sound04:43
lup|goneX doesn't I think?04:43
danielsdown to 538.  if I attempt to optimise it further, please smack me in the head.04:44
=== thom prepares things to launch at daniels
mjg59daniels: 538 opens?04:44
danielslup|gone: nope, X doesn't, but if you start it parallel, then you run the risk of having your GNOME session start before your sound card comes up, which is massive suck.04:44
danielsmjg59: 538 opens/stats/whatever04:44
danielsmjg59: as opposed to 5702 originally04:44
danielsmjg59: x server startup is a *lot* faster04:45
mjg59thom: Well, David Zuthen is claiming 40 seconds wallclock from grub to desktop04:45
danielsthom: usual place04:45
danielsmjg59: yes, but that was bullshit04:45
danielsmjg59: he replaced init with a small shell script that loaded the modules for his machine04:46
danielsdidn't bother with trivial services such as network04:46
danielsand slammed 193MB into the page cache04:46
mjg59And it starts little else04:46
mjg59But it gives possibilities04:46
danielsalso, not starting the gdm greeter is a pretty big win04:46
thomgdmgreeter is pretty hellish - it has a stack of stuff that it needs to load04:47
lup|gonedaniels that is correct but is there no way to start X and then start gnome-session if sound is found or all devices have been detected by hotplug?04:47
daniels(the other problem with gdmgreeter is that right now, it needs to scale down a 1600x1200 PNG and then overlay another PNG with an alpha channel on top of it)04:47
daniels(this is not terribly cheap.)04:48
mjg59daniels: You've dropped VBERestore now?04:48
Keybukcan't we start the sound-server as part of the boot process?04:48
thommjg59: my graphs are all with vberestore on04:49
danielsmjg59: i'm getting quite blinding speed without it04:49
danielsKeybuk: isn't esd per-user?04:49
mjg59daniels: Dude, drop VBErestore04:49
danielsmjg59: talk to thom04:49
mjg59We can do it in the ACPI path04:49
mjg59thom: DROP VBERESTORE04:49
danielsthom: (YOU MUPPET)04:49
Keybukdaniels: sure, but it should be per-machine ... different users don't have different soundcards normally :)04:50
danielsKeybuk: polyp?04:50
danielsKeybuk: anyway, is there IBM power over there I can steal?04:50
Keybukthom's on battery04:50
danielsme too ... all 3% of it04:50
Keybukif you can take mdz's plug, you could steal his I guess :p04:50
danielshis stuff appears to be elsewhere04:50
danielsKeybuk: who's is that?04:51
danielswell, mdz volunteers, I guess :)04:51
bob2thom: ?04:51
mjg59thom: The stuff I hacked up yesterday lets us do the VBE save/restore on our way through suspend/resume, rather than doing it in general04:51
mjg59If it turns out that we still need it in X space, the right thing to do is hack it into the X suspend/resume code rather than do it on every VT switch04:52
mjg59(running my stuff while X is running kills X)04:52
thomoh, sweet04:53
mjg59vbestate save >foo04:53
mjg59vbestate restore <foo04:54
=== thom goes to try a new reboot
thomsans vberestore04:56
bob2ffoh, I'm on battery too04:56
Keybukhmm... I wonder why things like ntpdate and mountnfs aren't done in if-up.d04:57
bob2ff = hitting keys to see if the network is fucked04:57
mjg59Keybuk: Because, uh, erm...04:58
mjg59(because that's not the way things are done, damn it)04:59
Keybukthey are now :p04:59
danielsbob2: ah05:01
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thomwe take 12 seconds to mount and uncompress the initrd05:03
thomwe so should try with an uncompressed one05:04
danielsi was going to say, maybe it's worth shooting for no compression if it's viable05:04
fabbionethom: just check cramfs options05:04
fabbionethat's easy to hack05:04
danielshm, so gdmgreeter uses a *lot* of cpu05:05
thomi think for us we're probably safe not to bother05:06
rburtondaniels: considered trying a pure SVG theme to avoid the PNG rescale? you'll be trading one complex algorithm for another, but people claim SVG icons are faster than PNG in the scheme of things in gtk05:06
thomber, that run got totally bitten by laptop mode05:06
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danielsrburton: i'm trying something now05:07
danielsthom: hold up05:07
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danielsthom: humour me -- replace /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/background.png with .11/~daniels/background.png05:08
=== rburton wonders if background.png originally had an empty alpha channel
danielsthom: it's not perfect (positioning is off), but I want to see how much we win by not rescaling and overlaying05:09
danielsi.e. how much of it is needing to optimise gdmgreeter to hell05:09
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=== oracle is now known as madduck
danielsthom: btw, remove xfonts-base-transcoded if you have it05:12
thomdaniels: background.png not on .11/~daniels/05:13
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/public_html% sudo mv background.png /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human05:14
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/public_html% cp /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/background.png .05:14
danielslesson learnt.05:14
thomheh :-)05:14
thomok, lets try this again with no laptop-mode05:14
danielsthom: DOUBLE THE FIST05:15
lup|goneusing imlib is out of the question? :) (I heard it was very fast for image handling)05:15
danielsto be fair, raster's tests were written to show up render and make imlib look awesome05:15
rburtongdkpixbuf shouldn't be way slower than imlib05:17
danielsthom: .11/~daniels/Human.xml05:18
danielsthom: and dude, ditch ntpdate05:18
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maswandaniels: dude, if you don't ntpdate, your clock might be way off.05:21
danielsmaswan: ntpd05:21
danielshaving ntpdate block sucks05:22
tsengi should package that05:22
daniels(it's blocking for a good 10-15sec)05:22
maswandaniels: Is that one less chicken of adjusting the clock multiple hours at startup?05:22
maswan.. these days05:22
danielsmaswan: huh?05:22
danielsoh, right05:22
danielsit won't do multiple hours per default, but I think it could be configured to do so05:23
haggaidoes anyone speak danish?05:23
Clintsubverting ntp isn't such a good idea05:23
maswanthat's the classical reason for running ntpdate at boot, because if the hwclock says 1970-01-01 00:00...05:23
danielshaggai: very, very badly, but I have a phrasebook on my room05:23
maswanbut if ntpd can be fixed to do large adjustments at boot/startup, that's good.05:23
maswanhaggai: it is close enough to swedish for me to usually be able to read it.05:24
haggaidaniels: I'm looking at 2 translations and wondering which one is the most up to date05:24
haggai"En logind-hndtering er et program, der giver mulighed for grafisk logind "05:24
haggaiis it "En" or "Den" ?05:24
haggai(at the beginning)05:24
danielshaggai: i don't have the grammar to tell you, sorry05:24
maswan"En", most likely.05:24
haggaihmm, ok I was expecting the other way05:25
=== haggai looks for another one
maswanhmm.. yeah, "_A_ login-thingie is _a_ program"05:25
haggai"A display manager is a program that provides graphical login capabilities "05:25
haggaiwas the original05:25
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haggaiPlease select which display manager should "05:26
haggai"run by default.""run by default."05:26
haggai1. "som udgangspunkt skal kres."05:26
haggai2. "skal kres som standard."05:26
haggai1 or 2 ?05:27
thomi'm gonna look at caching /dev05:27
danielsok, so we're looking at around 40 seconds so far05:27
daniels(that's subtracting ntpdate)05:27
maswanhaggai: Hmm.. That's a hard one, it seems to say about the same thing.05:27
daniels/dev seems to be a major hit (in the order of 5-7 seconds)05:28
haggaimaswan: ok, thanks05:28
thomdon't wanna rebuild initrd on battery05:28
maswanhaggai: so the change is probably because one is better danish than the other, and I'm not native enough to tell which.05:28
haggaimaswan: heh :) ok, I'll take the one from KDE CVS not the deb package05:28
Keybukthom: the main problem is the udev device table05:28
thomKeybuk: expand?05:29
haggaimaswan: that's the one with the later date, and the En05:29
maswanhaggai: ok, glad I could help05:29
lamont_rntpdate is almost entirely I/O bound, could just be backgrounded without hurting things much at all.05:29
Keybukyou know udev has a table in /dev/.udevdb right? :)05:29
Keybukthough that should be attarrable05:29
=== maswan agrees with lamont_r, that's the sensible thing to do with ntpdate
thomKeybuk: oh, right. yes05:29
lamont_rKeybuk: which font is that from??05:30
=== lamont_r gets boxes
Keybukntpdate is going into if-up.d05:31
Keybukno point doing it until the first device pops its head up05:31
lamont_reven better05:31
Kamionanyone at the conference got a Thinkpad T42?05:33
lamont_rdoko: gcc-3.3 and 3.4 built for i386. yippee!05:33
KeybukKamion: mdz.05:33
Kamionbonus, I may hijack him later for testing then05:33
Keybuksyndicate tmp% sudo time tar xzf ~/dev.tar.gz05:33
Keybuk0.05user 0.39system 0:01.24elapsed 36%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k05:33
Keybuk0inputs+0outputs (0major+460minor)pagefaults 0swaps05:33
Keybuksyndicate tmp% sudo time udevstart05:33
Keybuk7.38user 2.68system 0:11.79elapsed 85%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k05:33
Keybuk0inputs+0outputs (0major+588855minor)pagefaults 0swaps05:33
Keybuk^ good 10s there05:33
danielsKamion: yeah, mdz has one in front of me05:34
danielsthom/boot is calling you05:34
dokolamont_r: yes, after tcl8.4 built05:36
danielsthom: paging in /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg, /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux//libint10.a,  /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvbe.a, /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a, /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a, /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libfreetype.a, /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a, and /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a highly recommended05:38
lamont_rdoko: yes.  thank you.05:38
thomdaniels: already done05:38
danielsthom: rockin'05:38
danielsthom: those are the big ones05:38
thomgrabbed from the straces05:38
danielsah, one step ahead05:39
danielsis it just me, or does anyone else in the NM bof think mdz is posing like a life model atm?05:39
thomwe need a photo to go with the line on quotes05:40
Kamiondaniels: haha05:40
Kamionmust be the turtle-neck05:40
lamont_rMithrandir: swig1.3 is still ftbfs on amd64 (pike7.4 issues)05:43
=== lamont_r dep-waits swig1.3
MithrandirI'll whack at it05:46
TreenaksMithrandir: the NL thunderbird is not on crack today05:54
fabbionedaniels: http://debian.linux-systeme.com/dists/unstable/main/source/xorg_6.8.1-0.4_i386.changes05:55
fabbionedaniels: i think i found that guy was mumbling about problems building xorg with us05:56
fabbionebut he seems to have a bunch on patches05:56
fabbionethat we can pull in05:56
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=== sid77 hi
MithrandirTreenaks: goodie06:00
seb128elmo_away, libgnomeui sync please06:03
fabbioneseb128: he is sleep in his room.06:04
fabbionehe was not feeling good06:04
seb128fabbione, ok. Do you think he'll read the IRC messages when he comes back or I should rather note the packages to sync somewhere ?06:05
fabbioneseb128: if he will survive, i would suggest to remind him06:06
seb128fabbione, and if he doesn't who should I ping ? :p06:07
fabbioneseb128: god06:09
fabbionehe is the only one one step up elmo06:09
seb128ah ah06:10
TreenaksNew Global Directory of OpenPGP Keys --> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/12/09/1446203.shtml?tid=93&tid=15806:19
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mxpxpodlamont_r: ping06:22
seb128seb128, carlos says ping06:22
lamont_rmxpxpod: ack06:22
mxpxpodlamont_r: ok, I know you got the mount segfault fixed, but my partitions still don't unmount on shutdown because /.dev gets unmounted before everything else06:24
lamont_rwith 2.21j-2?06:24
lamont_r2.12j-2 that is06:24
lamont_rer, -2ubuntu1 or so06:24
mxpxpodlamont_r: yes06:25
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mxpxpodlamont_r: hold on, let me check my logs06:26
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mxpxpodlamont_r: it's not in my logs, but I know that when it goes to unmount local filesystems, it says it can't find '/'06:27
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mxpxpodlamont_r: I'm also getting a warning on reboot that says I still have a .udevdb in /dev06:28
lamont_ryeah - I see that one too, but I don't think that's mine...06:29
mxpxpodok, just making sure06:29
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Mithrandirseb128: do you mind others nicking packages and merging them underneath you, like eel, bug-buddy and so on?06:35
seb128Mithrandir, I'm doing merging right now, I'm just closed 4 bugs about that06:39
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dokomvo: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2004/12/msg00017.html06:53
fabbionemdz: ping06:54
mdzfabbione: pong06:55
fabbionemdz: amu was asking about including cloop as part of the kernel since it is required for the LiveCD06:56
fabbionemdz: do you have objections to it?06:56
fabbionei think it can live as module and be loaded in the initrd.gz06:56
fabbioneand i also remember that we need to some kind of fs module06:56
fabbioneto simulate writing06:57
mdzfabbione: yes, we need it06:57
mdzbut no, we do not need the filesystem module06:57
mdzonly cloop06:57
mdzit's packaged in Debian and should be quite simple, one file06:57
fabbionemdz: yes i am already looking at the code06:57
fabbionebut since one requirement for hoary was to have teh same kernel for live and normal...06:58
fabbioneok.. it will be in in -5 :-)06:58
mdzfabbione: yes, that is the idea06:59
mdzif we can get the cloop module in, we can use the same kernel06:59
mdzwe are using a different mechanism to make the filesystem writable06:59
mdzusing device-mapper, which is already there07:00
fabbionemdz: sure i can get it in07:02
fabbionemdz: -4 with the scsi fix is up07:02
fabbioneat least the one liner we found07:03
fabbioneall the google search didn't report anything else07:03
fabbionethe other crap i found this morning was rc2 -> rc3 related and it shouldn't be an issue for us07:03
thombunch new bootcharts up07:05
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jdub_mdz: what was the dm thing you're using for the livecd?07:14
mdzjdub_: dm-snapshot07:15
jdub_that keeps an overlay of stuff in ram?07:16
mdzit does copy-on-write from one device-mapper target to another07:16
jdub_very very nice07:16
jdub_*very* nice07:16
mdzI don't think anyone has used it for a live CD yet07:16
mdzso shhhhh until I get the prototype out :-)07:16
mirakwhat must I do to use the ati driver with kernel 2.6.9 ?07:17
jdub_mdz: it came up in discussion of readahead block optimisation07:18
mirakis just building the source package of the driver enough ?07:18
jdub_mdz: craaaaaack :)07:18
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lamont_rmirak: if the modules package for 2.6.9 is there, it's trivial.  if not, then it hasn't been uploaded yet, but is in plan for "real soon now".07:24
thommirak: and this is a question better asked in #ubuntu, by the way :-)07:29
mirakthom: and not better answered07:31
mirakif at all07:31
thommirak: that's as maybe, but this really is not a support channel07:31
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fabbionemdz: cloop-utils -> main?07:36
fabbioneamu:   Compressed Loop Support (BLK_DEV_CLOOP) [N/m/?]  (NEW) m07:38
fabbioneand now let see if it compiles :-)07:39
jdubKeybuk: can you come upstairs for a minute?07:39
jdubKeybuk: need to run a dpkg issue by you07:39
lamont_rjdub: you should point mdz at fabbione's question07:39
jdub(if Keybuk isn't watching, someone nudge him)07:39
ografabbione: can we see you jumping around again ?07:39
jdubfabbione: mdz says yes, i'll put it in supported07:40
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jdubthom: ping07:43
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danielsSHIT HOT.07:45
danielsmjg59: more optimising, this time on the stupidly CPU-heavy parts07:45
danielsmjg59: X is now a blip on the bootchart -- we're now spending more time in VBE than initialising X and handing over to gdmgreeter by a factor of, oh, 707:45
Kamiondaniels: how goes l-r-m?07:46
danielsKamion: just looking at that now, actually :) i'm pretty confident I can upload this run07:47
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Mithrandirwhere are you?07:49
TreenaksMithrandir: BOF room07:49
Mithrandiroh, ok07:49
MithrandirI just left.07:49
TreenaksMithrandir: where are YOU07:49
Mithrandiryou wanted to sign keys; we can do it afterwards.07:49
Treenaksok, I can get there07:49
thomjdub: ack07:50
Mithrandir*sigh*, keyslips left in my room, give me two minutes.07:51
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fabbioneogra: ehehe07:52
fabbionejdub: fine for me.. if it is ok with amu07:52
jdubthom: n/m07:53
fabbioneamu: looks good: compressed_loop.o07:55
Keybukkeybuk: 1 - hotplug: 008:00
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fabbionedinner bof08:09
sivangfabbione : exactly08:10
sivangfabbione :  :-)08:10
moquist_i see there's a bounty for Python scripting interfaces for the GIMP.  Has GIMP-Python (http://www.jamesh.id.au/software/pygimp/) been considered?08:13
jameshI'm probably not eligible08:15
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jamesh(of course, yosh has been doing most of the pygimp maintaintenance recently08:16
mjg59daniels: That is so much coolness08:18
mjg59thom: Keybuk: Is there any reason ntpdate can't be backgrounded?08:18
mjg59Is there anything in the init scripts that depends on time being monotonic?08:18
mjg59daniels: ntpd won't step time, it'll just alter the clock speed to get you there gradually. That way, time never goes backwards or jumps too far08:19
mjg59(see what happens to xscreensaver if you ntpdate from inside X)08:19
danielsheh :)08:19
danielsKeybuk is working on heavy crack for that08:19
danielsso we can effectively parallelise it08:20
moquist_jamesh: i wasn't thinking so much about the payment of the bounty; i was wondering if the need leading to the bounty offer is already being met.  apparently it's not - so what else is needed?08:22
jameshmoquist_: well, there is the talk of "a common document object model", which is a large project (and not an Ubuntu only one).08:25
jameshmoquist_: I'm not sure what the exact available bounties would be.08:25
moquist_jamesh: re: common DOM - right.  it isn't clear from the description whether work is wanted on OO, Abiword, GIMP, etc. individually, or only within the context of developing a common DOM.08:27
jameshmoquist_: have you ever programmed in VB or similar on Windows?08:28
moquist_jamesh: yes, though that was in school.  i've been doing C in UNIX for three years since then...08:28
jameshmoquist_: okay.  VB is a pretty crappy language, but its power comes from the ability to script pretty much any COM interface available08:29
jameshmoquist_: there were a lot of components provided with the OS, and pretty much every decent sized app provided COM scripting support08:30
moquist_if it isn't clear, I'm looking for an entry-point into Ubuntu dev.  i'm not interested so much in a bounty as I am in a defined problem space...08:30
moquist_jamesh: right.  so the goal is a common set of interfaces to GIMP, OO, Abi, etc. functionality.08:31
jameshthe idea is to have something similar on Linux desktops, so that people find it worthwhile writing language bindings for the object model, and applications find it worthwhile supporting it.08:32
jamesh(this is a pretty big project, as you can guess)08:33
jameshis there anything in particular that you are interested in?08:34
moquist_jamesh: no, and that's part of my problem.  :)08:35
moquist_i have UNIX kernel experience, and general application experience (though not professionally there)08:35
moquist_so far I've been looking over the bounties, because they're [relatively]  well-defined areas that I *know* need work.  can you help direct me more precisely?08:37
moquist_i looked a bit at the kernel module autoloading problem, but I didn't think that would necessarily be a good jumping-in point.08:38
jameshI'm not exactly sure what work is covered there.08:39
moquist_so I'm interested in diverse things, and I'm having trouble narrowing my focus.  knowing what the strongest needs are would help...08:39
moquist_(sorry - i'm laboring under a *very* slow connection ATM, so I can't respond quickly)  And now you're gone, but I'll post this anyway.  :-p08:40
eruinwish I had skills in C08:41
eruinbut alas, back to my communist-russia-inspired designing ;D08:42
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mjg59Working ACPI on a Toshiba with nvidia!09:56
azeemmjg59: do you have a patch relative to the ubuntu kernel source for the kernel image you got on srcf.ucam.org?09:58
mjg59azeem: It's all in the Hoary 2.6.909:59
azeemah, okie09:59
mjg59But the patches are at http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/patches/09:59
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mjg59daniels: Ping?10:54
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