[12:35] <Kamion> do we have any idea what's wrong with gnomemeeting? (uninstallable)
[12:35] <Mithrandir> not on i386?
[12:35] <Kamion> powerpc/amd64
[12:36] <Mithrandir> was updated today, at least
[12:37] <RubenV> heh, this is weird
[12:37] <RubenV> the logout link in my panel is gonee
[12:39] <RubenV> http://files.lambda1.be/screenshots/panel-logout-gone.png
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, yo.
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, there are some items listed as "bounty available" with your name next to them.
[12:41] <jdub> morning
[12:41] <srbaker> jdub, are you the person that coordinates that?
[12:41] <jdub> yeah
[12:41] <jdub> hola!
[12:42] <jordim> hola!
[12:42] <srbaker> jdub, how do you arrange that?
[12:42] <srbaker> jdub, would i be competing with others to finish it first, and thereby duplicating effort?
[12:42] <jdub> no
[12:43] <jdub> they're not really bounties like that
[12:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, figured out in conjunction with elmo, I'll fix it
[12:43] <jdub> if you're keen to do one, mail me, we can sort it out and stuff
[12:44] <srbaker> jdub, i am keen to do a couple
[12:45] <srbaker> jdub, the gnome bt gui is the main oen
[12:45] <srbaker> jdub, what's Ubuntu Pocketbook ?
[12:46] <jdub> it's a starter's guide to ubuntu
[12:46] <jdub> the doc team are working on it
[12:51] <srbaker> ahh
[12:53] <jon1012> hello :)
[12:54] <jon1012> (do you know when the mono packages will be fixed ?)
[12:54] <jon1012> (on hoary)
[12:54] <jon1012> (because one part is in .2 and another in .4, which blocks any upgrade or change in the mono packages on my system :/)
[12:58] <usual> what is the formal way to request software to be packaged?
[01:07] <lamont_r> usual: is it something in debian?
[01:07] <usual> lamont, not offically, no
[01:08] <lamont_r> what package?
[01:08] <lamont_r> the simplest way is to get it into debian, and then it just shows up in universe...
[01:08] <usual> I was on planet.gnome.org and saw a link to a systray plugin for xchat, it looks great. I found a deb and tried it, everything works fine except no icon in the tray
[01:09] <lamont_r> but otherwise, it's a discussion on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, possibly predated by discussion here.
[01:09] <usual> gotcha
[01:09] <lamont_r> gnome crack tends to get tracked pretty solidly, given the team...
[01:09] <usual> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=88437
[01:10] <usual> if your interested
[01:10] <lamont_r> I'll pass that along
[01:10] <usual> ty
[01:11] <usual> It is very nice to minimise to systray and be notified of nick highlights etc
[01:26] <lamont_r> usual: actually, could you toss me an email, so it doesn't fall through the cracks?
[01:26] <usual> lamont_r, sure, what is the address
[01:26] <lamont_r> lamont@canonical.com
[01:27] <usual> ok, I will include the url's as well
[01:27] <lamont_r> (then I can just forward your mail to the right folks, and be even lazier...)
[01:27] <lamont_r> thanks
[01:27] <usual> hehe
[01:27] <usual> Thank you
[01:30] <usual> lamont_r, sent you the info
[01:30] <lamont_r> thanks
[01:30] <usual> np :)
[01:34] <usual> lamont_r, here is the blurb I saw it on on planet gnome
[01:34] <usual> http://pubcrawler.org/archives/000567.html
[02:30] <wasabi> So... what's up with Mono? Is it going to be in Hoary, all maintained and ready to go?
[02:51] <jdodson> knock, knock.
[02:55] <mjg59> Hello
[02:56] <jdodson> any developers in the house?
[02:57] <mjg59> Most of them are in Spain at the moment, and it's 3AM there
[02:57] <mjg59> So probably not :)
[02:57] <jdodson> right, cant wait for them to get back....
[02:57] <jdodson> :)
[02:58] <mjg59> What's up?
[02:59] <jdodson> i mean i can, sorry type.
[02:59] <jdodson> type=typo.
[02:59] <jdodson> that line should have read "right, i can wait for them to get back."
[02:59] <Clint> mjg59: you don't qualify as question-worthy
[03:00] <jdodson> i have a solaris keyboard at work and come home to a non-solaris board, takes a few mins to get used to.
[03:00] <jdodson> clint: i need to talk to a developer about mentoring me for becoming a package maintainer, kinda makes sense to talk to a developer.
[03:00] <jdodson> clint: no offense to any non-developers.
[03:03] <wasabi> argh.
[03:03] <wasabi> trashapplet is crashing left and right
[03:03] <mjg59> Clint: Damnit
[03:05] <Clint> mjg59: your debian streetcred is meaningless here
[03:11] <mjg59> How about my ACPI streetcred?
[03:12] <kylem> meaningless as well!
[03:12] <kylem> <- no streetcred at all. ;-)
[03:13] <mjg59> Laptop users give me mad phat streetcred
[03:13] <chrisa> What? It's not cool just to kick them anymore? You have to throw them at me?
[03:13] <jdodson> i was not trying to say any debian developer is worthless.
[03:14] <jdodson> clint: i think you are taking what i am saying in a way i dont mean, or you are being synical(something hard to convey via text).
[03:14] <Clint> relax, we're joking around
[03:14] <jdodson> clint: sorry, i dont mean to offend anyone, its hard to judge what people mean via text.
[03:15] <Clint> I understand.
[03:15] <chrisa> You get pretty good at it after a while
[03:15] <chrisa> For instance, if I call kylem a tosser he'll just assume I'm being an idiot
[03:15] <kylem> crap. how did you know!
[03:15] <Clint> jvw: not for long. muahahaha.
[03:15] <chrisa> I didn't! Muiaha
[03:15] <jdodson> chrisa: funny.
[03:15] <jvw> Clint: I *knew* it :)
[03:16] <Clint> no one around to force any channel code of conduct right now
[03:16] <kylem> ubuntu needs hot-babe.
[03:16] <Clint> it's already got mplayer and amd64, why not?
[03:16] <jvw> How flamy are ubuntu-lists?
[03:16] <Mithrandir> jvw: not.
[03:17] <Clint> except the people that get gated in via the "forums"
[03:17] <jvw> so, no risk of ubuntu ever threatening Debian then
[03:17] <chrisa> Adding a forum portal sounds like a good way to ruin the lists
[03:18] <jvw> if ubuntu has mplayer, why doesn't Debian have it?
[03:20] <wasabi> ubuntu doesn't.
[03:21] <jvw> ah, Clint spreading disinformation here then :)
[03:22] <jvw> http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/m/mplayer/
[03:22] <jvw> what is multiverse?
[03:23] <wasabi> mplayer is in multiverse?
[03:23] <wasabi> maybe it's just in the pool
[03:23] <jvw> (I found http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-10-20.1228090247 by the way)
[03:24] <usual> Setting up mplayer-586 (1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu3) ...
[03:24] <jvw> multiverse sounds like debian's non-free
[03:24] <wasabi> wasabi@kyoto:~ $ apt-cache policy mplayer 
[03:24] <wasabi> Candidate: (none)
[03:24] <jvw> if ubuntu sees no _legal_ issues with distributing mplayer, I don't see why debian would
[03:25] <wasabi> Why am I not seeing it.
[03:25] <jvw> DFSGfreeness is something different of course
[03:25] <wasabi> Ahh there
[03:25] <wasabi> fake packages
[03:25] <wasabi> EVIL
[03:25] <jvw> you mean virtual :)?
[03:31] <mjg59> Debian's issue with mplayer is primarily that the maintainer hasn't produced packages with the licensing issues sufficiently explained
[03:32] <mjg59> multiverse is non-free stuff, yeah
[03:32] <jvw> hm... I didn't know that _that_ was debian's issue
[03:33] <jvw> Since there are packages in NEW, I assumed there was some more fundamental issue
[03:33] <jvw> So if anyone would package a mplayer with a sufficiently well explanation of the status, it'd be acceptable for non-free...?
[03:34] <mjg59> jvw: If someone could package mplayer with a sufficient explanation of its status, it could go into main
[03:34] <mjg59> It's blocking on license checking
[03:35] <jvw> I guess this status is completely unknown to anyone not brave enough to read -legal... as I was unable to find it when searching for it previously
[03:36] <mjg59> That bit hasn't been discussed on legal, as far as I know
[03:36] <mjg59> This is just from discussion with some of the poeple involved
[03:36] <jvw> do you plan to do something about that?
[03:36] <jvw> (Hm, maybe we should move to some debian channel)
[03:36] <mjg59> What happens to a package in NEW is generally between the maintainer and the ftp-masters
[03:37] <mjg59> It's up to the maintainer to deal with it
[03:37] <kylem> the second it made it into Debian, i'd have to ram about a thousand bugs at it, for being an absolutely shittily written piece of software...
[03:39] <mjg59> kylem: Well, yeah, it stands little chance of making it into stable for a long time
[03:39] <mjg59> Horrid, horrid program
[03:40] <usual> mplayer?
[03:40] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:40] <usual> mjg59, is there another option for a browser plugin?
[03:40] <usual> vlc?
[03:40] <mjg59> usual: Yurgh. There /is/ one for xine somewhere, but it sucks.
[03:41] <usual> rgr
[03:41] <mjg59> Mind you, most of my experience of mozplayer has also sucked.
[03:41] <usual> likewise
[03:41] <usual> I replaced totem-gstreamer with xine
[03:42] <usual> I wonder why it's the default (gstreamer)
[03:43] <farruinn> is there a meta package I can apt-get that gives a basic development environment
[03:43] <mjg59> gstreamer is the way things will be in the future
[03:43] <mjg59> It's just a bit fragile at the moment...
[03:43] <farruinn> like, I need gcc obviously, but what else is "standard"?
[03:44] <usual> I see, so it's being forced out widespread 
[03:44] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:44] <mjg59> The Hoary gstreamer should be much, much better
[03:44] <usual> k
[03:45] <usual> i'm using hoary, i'll track the progress
[03:49] <usual> mjg59, any plans to add beagle/inotify to hoary?
[03:50] <mjg59> usual: inotify is in the 2.6.9 kernel in hoary
[03:50] <usual> ahhh
[03:50] <mjg59> Beagle ought to turn up when it becomes a little less of a moving target (and when mono actually gets in)
[03:50] <usual> did not know
[03:50] <mjg59> usual: This is only as of a few days ago, so :)
[03:51] <mjg59> Hoary also has suspend to disk support
[03:52] <usual> i wasn't aware mono wasn't in
[03:52] <mjg59> There's some 1.0.2 packages in universe, but 1.0.4 doesn't currently build
[03:52] <mjg59> It's being worke don
[03:54] <usual> mjg59, the liveCD is actually morphix correct? I was curious if the bootsplash and grub splash were going into hoary
[03:55] <mjg59> The hoary livecd should be based on Hoary, rather than Morphix (in principle). Hoary /should/ have nice bootsplash, but it won't be based on the kernel patches.
[03:55] <usual> k
[03:55] <usual> thanks for the info
[03:56] <mjg59> The idea is to have something that just runs from userspace. It ought to be pretty neat anyway.
[03:56] <mjg59> On the other hand, it's currently looking like hoary ought to boot in a bit over 20 seconds or so in a decent system, so it might not be worth bothering :)
[03:56] <usual> it's a 6 month cycle right?
[03:57] <mjg59> Yup
[03:57] <mjg59> Hoary preview should be out in March
[03:57] <usual> just in time for my birthday
[03:57] <mjg59> Heh
[03:59] <usual> mjg59, ubuntu is a good server solution?
[04:00] <mjg59> It's not really any worse than Debian
[04:01] <mjg59> I'd have no qualms with using it
[04:01] <usual> ok, I've had a few people that I gave cd's to ask me, they swore it was just for a desktop/workstation
[04:01] <mjg59> The default install is suitable for a desktop
[04:01] <mjg59> If you boot with the custom option, the installer will let you choose a different set of packages
[04:01] <usual> gotcha
[04:02] <mjg59> Being a good desktop doesn't stop it from being a good server
[04:02] <usual> Thats what I tried to tell them heh
[04:03] <usual> I've enjoyed hoary so far, very few issues for being unstable
[04:03] <usual> debian unstable was somewhat similar, but more issues than ubuntu has given me
[04:22] <usual> mjg59, any idea what I need installed to play dvd's with totem-gstreamer? I just did an apt-get install gstreamer0.8*
[04:22] <usual> none of that helped
[04:56] <usual> ahhh
[04:56] <usual> people in #gstreamer tell me the gstreamer in hoary isn't new enough to play dvd's
[08:41] <daniels> mjg59: http://www.livejournal.com/~mjg59/33116.html
[08:46] <ironwolf> daniels: ROTFL.
[09:31] <sid77> pinhead, gabba gabba hey?
[09:31] <haggai> 2 evo crashes in as many minutes :(
[09:33] <haggai> 4rd crash
[09:33] <haggai> 3
[09:34] <haggai> 4th
[09:34] <haggai> now it won't even start
[09:41] <Tsjoklate> I have a question/request... in warty I was able to d/l the suede-icons, but now in hoary the package has been (temp?) removed... kan anyone shed some light on this?
[09:43] <Kamion> suede-icons was only in warty universe, judging from my mirror
[09:43] <Tsjoklate> someone will read this :)
[09:43] <Kamion> can't say I know where it's gone though
[09:43] <Treenaks> Kamion: yeah, why isn't it in hoary-universe then :)
[09:43] <thom>  madison suede-icons
[09:43] <thom> suede-icons | 0.2.5-0ubuntu1 | warty/universe | source, all
[09:43] <Kamion> presumably 'cos it was removed from Debian
[09:43] <Tsjoklate> I know Kamion.. I was just hoping it would return in hoary
[09:43] <Kamion> ah, in fact it was Ubuntu-specific
[09:43] <Kamion> so it would have been removed because we no longer use it I suppose
[09:44] <Tsjoklate> thought it was an ubu deal
[09:44] <thom> i don't think it was ever packaged for debian; it was nathaniel's temporary icons
[09:44] <Kamion> looks like it, yes
[09:44] <thom> if you want to update the package and rebuild it for hoary i'm sure someone will sponsor the package
[09:45] <thom> Tsjoklate: ^
[09:45] <Tsjoklate> me thom?
[09:45] <Treenaks> Tsjoklate: yes you can do it :)
[09:45] <Tsjoklate> I would do it.. but what do I have to do?
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> you are making me nervous here Treenaks :)
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> I've never done such a thing
[09:46] <Tsjoklate> but I am willing to learn
[09:46] <Treenaks> Tsjoklate: I can show you -- I used to be a DD :)
[09:52] <Tsjoklate> problem solved thanks folks
[09:58] <seb128> pitti, hello
[09:58] <pitti> Hi seb128! Nice to meet you
[09:59] <Treenaks> dudes.. you've been at the same conference for more than a week
[09:59] <seb128> really ? :)
[09:59] <pasc> I haven't
[09:59] <Tsjoklate> hey pitti :)
[10:23] <daniels> ross: yo dude
[10:23] <Keybuk> yo, hey what's happenin' dude ?
[10:23] <ross> yo yo yo
[10:23] <daniels> represent!  warrrrrk!
[10:23] <elmo> REPRESENT.  GOOD TIMES.
[10:24] <Simira> so, what's up today?
[10:24] <daniels> aside from the ceiling?
[10:25] <thom> I want SICKIX branding
[10:25] <daniels> sssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
[10:26] <daniels> evolution is so broken
[10:26] <Kinnison> heh
[10:47] <Kamion> mvo: is there any reason why it's APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated rather than Allow-Unauthenticated to match most of the other apt configuration variables?
[10:52] <thom> CRAAAAACK
[10:54] <mvo> Kamion: I don't think so
[10:56] <Treenaks> "This is your brain on Perl" :)
[10:56] <Kinnison> "and *this* is your brain on Python" :-P
[10:58] <Keybuk> "This is your brain on Small Talk"
[10:59] <Treenaks> Keybuk: what's that dripping out of your ears? ;)
[11:08] <seb128> daniels, any idea on why http://clipart.freedesktop.org/downloads/openclipart-0.08.tgz doesn't work ? (it used to work and I've a bug report based on it )
[11:08] <seb128> bah, somebody has problably removed the file, I'll try with the 0.07 which seems to work
[11:11] <oscarh> hi! i was referred here from #ubuntu, i have a question about the alps touchpad kernel driver and if it could be included in ubuntu.
[11:12] <Kinnison> is the alps pad driver not integrated into the synaptics driver these days?
[11:12] <oscarh> Kinnison, don't think so
[11:12] <oscarh> i've got a "working" touchpad
[11:13] <oscarh> but i can't use the xorg syaptics driver
[11:13] <oscarh> well, i haven't tried the last few weeks though
[11:14] <Kinnison> Hmm
[11:14] <Treenaks> maybe it's a non-synaptics touchpad?
[11:14] <Treenaks> oh wait
[11:14] <oscarh> nope, it's an alps touchpad
[11:15] <oscarh> if i patch my kernel and rebuild it works
[11:15] <oscarh> has diferent resolution than a synaptics but works as a synaptics in every other way i think
[11:16] <Treenaks> hm, I have an ancient alps touchpad
[11:16] <Treenaks> hmm
[11:18] <oscarh> Treenaks, i hope mine isn't ancient
[11:18] <oscarh> :)
[11:18] <Treenaks> oscarh: well, I hope mine is supported as well :)
[11:18] <oscarh> otherwise ubuntu works really good, so it's a bit anoying having to patch the kernel for just that.
[11:20] <oscarh> but how does it work with kernel patches an prekompiled kernels?
[11:20] <oscarh> is it even able to install a patch as an "extra" packade or do you have to use an whole other kernel?
[11:21] <thom> we rejected the alps patch, can't remember why
[11:21] <oscarh> thom, not that common with alps touchpads?
[11:22] <thom> the problem with the alps patch is that you cannot reliably detect the difference between an alps and a standard synaptics touchpad, so you pick up an alps and try to use extended functions and it all goes wrong; the number of alps touchpads was small enough to make dropping that the best option
[11:23] <Treenaks> so splitting/loading alps manually would actually be the best option?
[11:24] <thom> probably, yeah, but the problem is that it's so inanely tied to the psmouse code it wasn't really worth it from a time point of view, but patches gratefully accepted ...
[11:24] <oscarh> thom,  could the patch still be compiled and included as an extra package?
[11:24] <thom> the problem is in the kernel's psmouse driver, not with xorg-driver-synaptics; so you'd need a kernel parameter that the psmouse module took
[11:26] <oscarh> thom, sorry, lost me there, but i'm well aware that the xorg driver is still the same, and that the patch affects the kernel mouse drivers
[11:27] <thom> right.  so the kernel's standard mouse driver works out which type of ps/2 mouse it is, and alps is one of those types.  you can't reliably tell alps apart in the driver, though, so the kernel driver needs an option to specify the type, and that was too much work.
[11:28] <oscarh> ok, and it still is i guess.
[11:29] <daniels> seb128: i don't know, the cliparts project have gone kind of wacky
[11:29] <daniels> (right, my wireless card is out of ADD mode)
[11:29] <oscarh> i have a secon question though, maybe it sould be addressed xorg though, but dri drivers for savage video cards?
[11:30] <daniels> mmm, savage dri is still highly experimental
[11:30] <daniels> i'm loathe to put it in
[11:30] <Treenaks> daniels: it's hoary! :)
[11:30] <daniels> (it's a patch i really, really dislike)
[11:31] <daniels> Treenaks: highly experimental as in less reliable than the current savage driver
[11:31] <oscarh> daniels, patch?
[11:31] <daniels> which occasionally manages to actually display something
[11:31] <daniels> oscarh: yeah, there's a patch available
[11:31] <daniels> it's large and invasive, and whichever user uses it can write arbitrary things to any point in memory
[11:31] <daniels> which is even worse than normal dri
[11:31] <oscarh> daniels, isn't the savage dri work goin on in the xorg tree?
[11:31] <daniels> not afaik
[11:31] <oscarh> hmm, strange
[11:38] <Kamion> fabbione: hm, actually maybe I'm on crack about #3685 being a kernel bug, feel free to ignore me and reassign to hotplug if you think that's the case ;)
[11:47] <HcE> a very basic package question. should the postinst script be in debian/postinst ?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> HcE: yes.
[11:48] <HcE> =)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> or debian/$package.postinst
[11:48] <HcE> ok, what is most correct(tm)?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> the former if you only build a single package, the latter if you build more than one.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> (binary package, from the source package)
[11:49] <HcE> ok
[11:53] <HcE> ooh
[11:54] <fabbione> Kamion: well... if the device isn't created... ;) but i don't think it's a kernel problem
[11:54] <fabbione> Kamion: welcome to take it back and slip some sleeps here and there to wait for /dev/fb to wake up
[11:55] <fabbione> Kamion: otherwise wait a few hours to have kernel crack of the day and test with it :P
[11:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: see? you're getting addicted to the kernel :)
[11:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: slowly but surely...
[11:58] <daniels> sssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
[11:58] <daniels> my panel is SO BROKEN
[11:58] <seb128> wwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttt
[11:58] <seb128> that's probably xorg's fault
[11:58] <daniels> clearly a gtk bug
[11:59] <daniels> i just have two solid bars of the panel's background colour at the top and bottom of my screen
[11:59] <seb128> due to the xlibs ? :p
[11:59] <daniels> killall gnome-panel, doesn't help
[11:59] <Kamion> fabbione: /proc/fb didn't get populated either last I checked, and I'm *already* sleeping for up to 10 seconds to wait for /dev/fb!
[11:59] <daniels> i blame dbus
[11:59] <seb128> daniels, killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet
[11:59] <daniels> awesome
[11:59] <HcE> Mithrandir: how come dpkg installs my postinst to / instead of running it? Trying the Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO without much luck
[11:59] <seb128> daniels, when dbus/hal restart they just fuck the gnome-vfs-daemon
[11:59] <Kamion>                                 echo "Waiting for /dev/fb/0 to appear..."
[11:59] <Kamion>                                 for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
[11:59] <Kamion>                                         [ -e /dev/fb/0 ]  && break
[11:59] <Kamion>                                         sleep 1
[11:59] <Kamion>                                 done
[11:59] <seb128> which fucks all the GNOME stuff
[11:59] <azeem> daniels: 'slay' might help as well ;)
[11:59] <Kamion> (which sucks, but hey)
[11:59] <daniels> seb128: that didn't help, I still have the broken panel, and now I have a new nautilus window also ;)
[12:00] <sjoerd> dbus restart, it shouldn't care about hal restart
[12:00] <Treenaks> sjoerd: you can't restart hal without restarting dbus using the init scripts, can you?
[12:00] <seb128> daniels, are you using the drive mount applet ? In which case you need to kill it to
[12:00] <seb128> too
[12:00] <sjoerd> Treenaks: you can restart hal without restarting dbus
[12:00] <azeem> Treenaks: you can do it manually
[12:00] <Treenaks> azeem: I want an init script!
[12:00] <seb128> sjoerd, dbus restart restarts hal too :p
[12:00] <daniels> gnome-volume-manager?  restarting that isn't helping
[12:00] <seb128> no
[12:01] <seb128> /usr/lib/gnome-applets/drivemount_applet2
[12:01] <azeem> daniels: just reboot
[12:01] <daniels> azeem: don't want to lose browser + vi sessions + build
[12:01] <daniels> the latter being the thing that takes hours
[12:01] <seb128> daniels, killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet drivemount_applet2
[12:02] <daniels> seb128: yeah, did that, didn't helpj
[12:02] <seb128> hum
[12:02] <seb128> no idea so :/
[12:02] <seb128> I blame pitti 
[12:02] <seb128> utopia stuff fault
[12:03] <daniels> ah, wnck-applet seemed to be rather recalcitrant
[12:05] <seb128> utch
[12:06] <Treenaks> ooh, it's WW2 all over again.. the German guy beating up the French guy ;)
[12:06] <daniels> seb128: killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet drivemount_applet2 gweather-app
[12:06] <daniels> let-2 wnck-applet
[12:07] <sladen> daniels: swap  ESC  and  Tilde
[12:15] <seb128> daniels, that works ?
[12:15] <daniels> seb128: yeah
[12:15] <daniels> sladen: hmm?
[12:22] <Treenaks> thom: in a .deb?
[12:22] <thom> Treenaks: i have all the dependencies be-debbed
[12:22] <thom> beagle will happen this evening
[12:23] <daniels> thom: dbus-mono still isn't built
[12:24] <thom> no
[12:24] <thom> because m-a-b hasn't built, either
[12:25] <daniels> get to it!
[12:25] <Treenaks> chop chop!
[12:25] <HcE> Mithrandir: I got it right, now just fidling with enourms amount of errors from lintian
[12:25] <HcE> (=
[12:27] <Mithrandir> HcE: lintian -i is good
[12:28] <HcE> ah
[12:28] <HcE> does dpkg --build ignore CVS directories?
[12:29] <Kamion> you should not be using dpkg --build by hand
[12:29] <fabbione> damn i rock!
[12:29] <Mithrandir> HcE: use debhelper.
[12:29] <fabbione> linux-source-bleeding-edge is FTBFS on 4/5 arches
[12:29] <Kamion> use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild to build packages
[12:29] <Treenaks> fabbione: nice one :)
[12:29] <fabbione> actually 3/5
[12:29] <Kamion> your howto is clueless if it recommends that; drop it immediately and find something else
[12:30] <fabbione> Treenaks: with error that i have never seen before.. it seems like watching Star Trek: "Where no man has gone before..."
[12:30] <Treenaks> fabbione: that's kind of cool, in a way
[12:31] <fabbione> eehehe
[12:32] <fabbione> daniels: is there any reason why xserver-xorg-dbg now conflicts with xserver-xorg ????
[12:33] <daniels> ... it doesn't
[12:33] <HcE> Mithrandir: link to a good debuild guide?
[12:33] <fabbione> xserver-xorg conflicts with xserver-xfree86
[12:33] <fabbione> xserver-xorg-dbg provides xserver-xfree86
[12:33] <fabbione> hmmmmm
[12:33] <daniels> oh, yeah
[12:33] <daniels> right
[12:33] <Mithrandir> HcE: debian new maintainer's guide is ok-ish
[12:33] <fabbione> daniels: did you change anything over there?
[12:33] <daniels> yeah, I just caught the same thing myself
[12:33] <daniels> nope
[12:33] <daniels> it provides both -xfree86 and -xorg
[12:34] <fabbione> yeah
[12:34] <daniels> fixed locally
[12:34] <fabbione> no rush
[12:34] <fabbione> it's nothing really that bad
[12:34] <daniels> yeah
[12:35] <fabbione> and actually i think it is more sane to have them in conflict...
[12:35] <fabbione> because you don't end up in the trap of "to what is symlinked /etx/X11/X?"
[12:35] <daniels> heh
[12:35] <daniels> but it's kind of harsh to say 'YOU ARE A SLAVE TO DEBUGGING HAR HAR HAR'
[12:36] <daniels> but when we use the elf loader, that becomes irrelevant anyway
[12:36] <daniels> because it isn't stupid enough to say 'debug your server?  not any more!'
[12:36] <daniels> er, dl loader
[12:36] <daniels> the elf loader is the one that I hate
[12:36] <fabbione> ahha
[12:44] <thom> pitti: wish you had asked before you did 4065 - it was not done for a reason
[12:44] <thom> oh well
[12:45] <pitti> thom: oh?
[12:45] <pitti> thom: sorry for that
[12:45] <pitti> thom: shall I upload the old version again?
[12:45] <elmo> thom: might have been a plan to say that in the bug? :-p
[12:45] <thom> no, no, and no
[12:46] <thom> (ie, it's fine, we'll just find other stuff)
[12:46] <pitti> thom: sorry again, I just went through the to-be-merged list, and since I did the initial modifications, I just merged it
[12:46] <pitti> thom: what breaks now?
[12:47] <thom> pitti: nothing breaks
[12:47] <daniels> it's not a breakage thing, the fix is likely fine
[12:47] <thom> pitti: just... useful for educational purposed
[12:47] <lamont_r> and elilo-installer
[12:48] <fabbione> we are not going to introduce gcc4 are we?
[12:48] <fabbione> not for hoary at least...
[12:48] <elmo> fabbione: no
[12:48] <fabbione> good
[12:48] <fabbione> because it can't compile the kernel yet
[12:49] <fabbione> or better.. it miscompiles it
[12:49] <bob2> hm, my laptop is going in suspend loops again
[12:49] <thom> pffft, minor issue
[12:54] <fabbione> thom: my mom is a minor issue... thousands users knocking on my door no
[01:20] <fabbione> NUMA emulation support (NUMA_EMU) [N/y/?]  (NEW)  
[01:20] <fabbione> DOH!
[01:36] <haggai> ooh cool
[01:36] <fabbione> that's only for amd64 atm
[01:36] <daniels> elmo: please sync nvidia-kernel-common
[01:36] <haggai> if I click lock screen while kopete is logged in, it marks me as away.  Does that happen with gaim too?
[01:37] <thom> gossip used to do it
[01:38] <fabbione>   CC      net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_CLUSTERIP.mod.o
[01:40] <elmo> daniels: done
[01:40] <daniels> elmo: kthx
[02:15] <Kamion> hmm, the death in a bag was not too deathlike today
[02:16] <thom> Kamion: mutant tomato was pretty horrible
[02:16] <Treenaks> ooh mutant tomato!
[02:18] <Kamion> the sandwich you mean?
[02:18] <thom> Kamion: in the baguette
[02:19] <Kamion> mine was mostly just ham
[02:19] <thom> there was mulched mutant tomato underneath the ham
[02:21] <Kamion> I obviously totally ignored that
[02:27] <haggai> I wondered what that stuff was
[03:03] <seb128> jdub_, #3071 WONTFIX ?
[03:26] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: cool photos :)
[03:37] <Kamion> daniels: mind if I add udeb generation to l-r-m?
[03:59] <fabbione> mdz: g1mm3 tah crack
[03:59] <mdz> fabbione: APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated=1
[03:59] <fabbione> in which files?
[03:59] <mdz> echo 'APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "1";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf
[04:01] <fabbione> thanks
[04:01] <Kamion> hm, I used =true, I guess both work
[04:01] <fabbione> 1 is more 1337
[04:04] <pitti> doko: ping
[04:04] <pitti> doko: your BoF is starting
[04:11] <bob2> seb128: the frequency and battery monitors lost my preferences when going fro mwarty to hoary, is that normal?
[04:12] <seb128> not normal but there is already a bug open about it
[04:14] <jdub> thom: libgecko-cil only works with mozilla-browser -> suck
[04:17] <sid77> is the "creating audio cds" thread still open here? because I've found an intresting program (http://www.dropline.net/optimystic/)
[04:17] <ross> there is someone else making a HIGified python audio burner too
[04:20] <sid77> well, I'll post it in ml... do you mind if I open another thread? I cannot access the old thread from webmail
[04:25] <fabbione> debian-installer-images_20041118ubuntu9_sparc   2%  248KB  96.6KB/s   01:47 ETA
[04:26] <thom> jdub: yes
[04:26] <thom> much suck
[04:32] <Treenaks> woooo
[04:32] <robtaylor> carlos: ping?
[04:32] <carlos> robtaylor: pong
[04:33] <carlos> robtaylor: hi dude, sorry, I hadn't time to look at your work :-(
[04:33] <robtaylor> carlos: ok, i debugged and checked in a  demoable accessd with a csv backend last night :)
[04:33] <robtaylor> (flights are good =))
[04:34] <carlos> :-)
[04:34] <robtaylor> carlos: np, but just to let you know its usable..
[04:34] <carlos> robtaylor: I cannot do it from Barcelona  - Valencia
[04:34] <carlos> it's only 35 minutes
[04:34] <carlos> ;-)
[04:34] <robtaylor> heh
[04:34] <robtaylor> once you're up, you're already comingt down...
[04:36] <robtaylor> pitti, mdz: if etheir of you'd like to have a look at it, i have a bazaar repo at http://sourcecontrol.net/~rtaylor/robtaylor@fastmail.fm--2004-accessd/
[04:36] <robtaylor> see accessd/test for a basic example
[04:37] <robtaylor> ross: um, think of it as sudo over dbus (kinda)
[04:37] <robtaylor> but not really =)
[04:37] <ross> hm, interesting
[04:37] <robtaylor> i seems to have lost my writeup on it :(
[04:39] <pitti> robtaylor: thanks, I will take a look at it
[04:39] <robtaylor> pitti: thanks :)
[04:39] <pitti> robtaylor: carlos and I talked a lot about its architecture
[04:40] <pitti> robtaylor: apart from a few small things it looks pretty good
[04:40] <robtaylor> i heard. well this impliments the 'basic' version. I'm still keen to do the 'privilage elevation' version too, tho
[04:40] <Kinnison> robtaylor: hey dude
[04:40] <Kinnison> robtaylor: Not seen a mail about pub trips yet. you slackarse
[04:41] <Kinnison> oooh fluffling
[04:41] <robtaylor> hey, i only just about managed to get to work this morning.. 
[04:41] <robtaylor> never mind do any *thinking* or *doing*
[04:41] <robtaylor> =)
[04:42] <robtaylor> Kinnison: when did we decide would be a good day to do it?
[04:45] <robtaylor> Kinnison: sunday/monday?
[04:46] <Kinnison> robtaylor: sunday/monday is when I'm around
[04:47] <Kinnison> robtaylor: saturday I'll be half-dead and tuesday I'm driving to .ed
[04:47] <robtaylor> ok.
[04:53] <fabbione> lamont_r: wb
[04:53] <fabbione> sparc64 > ia64 :)
[04:53] <fabbione> i have a working installer... do you? :P
[04:54] <lamont_r> fabbione: I'm not working on ia64
[04:54] <lamont_r> but I might have something akin to a working installer - dunno
[04:54] <fabbione> i know... but i still love to tease you
[04:54] <lamont_r> Kamion: ia64 cdroms?
[04:55] <mvo> can I see my recent edited pages in the wiki?
[05:00] <Kamion> lamont_r: still waiting for the base-config .deb
[05:00] <Kamion> then I'll rebuild CDs and *then* they should work ...
[05:02] <lamont_r> cool
[05:06] <robtaylor> Kinnison: do you want to do the appropriate rallying of Uk troops currently based in mataro? ;)
[05:20] <sivang> Does anybody know stewart bishops's nickname?
[05:20] <thom> sivang: stub
[05:20] <sivang> tnx
[05:21] <Kinnison> robtaylor: post to debian-uk
[05:23] <robtaylor> Kinnison: already done...
[05:24] <Kinnison> robtaylor: that should be enough
[05:24] <robtaylor> okly dokly
[05:28] <Kinnison> "Kinnison and I"
[05:28] <Kinnison> I ask you
[05:28] <Kinnison> tsk
[05:28] <robtaylor> i'm forgetting that theres more to england than cambridge.. tahts a bit worrying...
[05:29] <robtaylor> oh, you dont liek Kinnson usage anywhere out of irc, ok  ;)
[05:29] <robtaylor> your names too long :P
[05:31] <Kinnison> 'Daniel Silverstone' is hardly wrist-breaking typage
[05:31] <bob2> you can shrten the surname to just 'stone', tho
[05:31] <robtaylor> hehhehe
[05:31] <ross> haha
[05:31] <robtaylor> or mabe silvers?
[05:32] <RubenV> has anyone tested gst-ffmpeg recently?
[05:32] <robtaylor> no namespace clashes there, shurly?
[05:32] <robtaylor> heh
[05:32] <thom> D.*[Ss] .*
[05:33] <mjg59> Why does Bugzilla only have x86 kernels listed in it?
[05:33] <Kinnison> robtaylor: 'dsilvers' is acceptable
[05:33] <RubenV> I've just rebuilt debian gst-ffmpeg packages for ubuntu and still they act sluggish, anyone wanna test if it's just my pc or the soft?
[05:33] <Kinnison> robtaylor: although few people would recognise that
[05:33] <RubenV> http://files.lambda1.be/linux/gst-ffmpeg/
[05:35] <robtaylor> Kinnison: i shall brave the usage of your full name in future, dont worry ;) (sorry, btw :( )
[05:50] <Simira> http://www.simira.net/UbuntuWomen.html - My article about Ubuntu and women in open source
[05:52] <lamont_r> mdz/mvo either one here still?
[05:52] <pitti> lamont_r: they already went to BCN
[05:52] <lamont_r> ok
[05:57] <bob2> Simira: nice!
[05:58] <Simira> :)
[06:08] <TD> hi. i'm wondering what the problem with the implementation of NetworkManager is?
[06:08] <TD> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/NetworkMagic implies it's bad somehow, but doesn't elaborate which is remarkably poor form really
[06:08] <tseng> the problem is NM is flakey to the max
[06:09] <tseng> there isnt a single problem that can be explained, just try using it for a few hours
[06:09] <TD> if i could figure out if it was finished, supposed to work etc, i would. it doesn't seem to ship with FC3 though
[06:09] <TD> i guess that's why ...
[06:09] <thom> TD: the intention is that we (i) will flesh that out at some point. our problems are:
[06:10] <thom> it doesn't tie into the underlying OS config at all
[06:10] <thom> it's *very* unstable, and actually getting worse rather than better right now
[06:10] <thom> it's bloating at a horrible rate - it now does DHCP for itself, eg
[06:11] <TD> erp
[06:11] <thom> the NM protocol is great. the implementation at this point is not good
[06:11] <TD> have these concerns been raised with red hat?
[06:12] <thom> TD: as a coherent whole, no. in individual parts, a lot of them have been raised on the list
[06:15] <TD> that's weird, danw claims they can't use g_spawn_sync ...
[06:16] <TD> hence they have to incorporate the dhcp client code into the program itself, which sounds odd
[06:17] <TD> oh, well, his reasons do seem to make senes
[06:20] <thom> they're internally consistent, but it's not really a direction we were happy to follow
[06:21] <TD> well, if dhcp is better done inside NM why is that a problem? i'm not sure why it has to be done by a separate process, even though that's traditional
[06:22] <thom> TD: because it makes it utterly hard to integrate our config and NM
[06:22] <thom> TD: NM should play with the underlying network config, not stomp all over iot
[06:23] <robtaylor> thom: what about gst?
[06:24] <thom> robtaylor: current plan is to use netapplet and integrate with gst well
[06:24] <robtaylor> thom: ok
[06:27] <TD> what is our config? you mean the custom debian scripts and such?
[06:29] <thom> TD: /etc/network/interfaces etc
[06:30] <TD> right
[06:30] <thom> TD: on debian, network config should go via ifupdown, because you can use scripts and mappings to plug in things like guessnet and configuring smarthosts for the mta
[06:30] <TD> i guess that's a philosophy issue. NM is supposed to replace it, if I understand correctly, rather than sit on top of it
[06:31] <thom> yeah. which is not desirable IOO. we'll probably end up using the dbus protocol so we can do the online querying stuff for gnome and so on
[06:32] <robtaylor> thom: dbus good. one tool that manages all network stufgf. then make ifup/ifdown talk  to that..
[06:32] <robtaylor> (hey, and then you can use accessd *plug* ;)) 
[06:33] <thom> robtaylor: *g*
[06:38] <Treenaks> robtaylor: WTF is accessd?
[06:41] <robtaylor> ah. i can tell i'll get asked this a lot.. i better write it up
[06:42] <robtaylor> Treenaks: a dbus authorisation daemon. 
[06:42] <Treenaks> robtaylor: ah, so I might use that in my hal-nmea-detect script to get access to the serial port, for example? or is it entirely intra-dbus?
[06:43] <robtaylor> actually its nothing incredibly clever at all. the basic idea is each daemion that provides a service looks up which user made the requiest and asks accessd it that user has right to do that
[06:44] <robtaylor> Treenaks: what does your hal-nmea-detect script do?
[06:44] <robtaylor> Treenaks: current implemnation is at http://sourcecontrol.net/~rtaylor/robtaylor@fastmail.fm--2004-accessd/
[06:45] <Treenaks> robtaylor: it opens the newly-detected serial port and listens for 3 seconds to see if it's a NMEA-compatible GPS
[06:49] <robtaylor> Treenaks: its a dbus service?
[06:50] <Kamion> daniels: l-r-m uploaded
[06:50] <Treenaks> robtaylor: so it's intra-dbus,  OK
[06:51] <Treenaks> :)
[06:51] <Treenaks> robtaylor: it's not a dbus-based sudo-ish thing,  that's what I mean :)
[06:52] <robtaylor> Treenaks: well, given it, it is trivial to implement a dbus-based sudoish thing, but that just a subset of the fnty i wanted to make possible..
[06:54] <robtaylor> Treenaks: i dont userstand why your script is running as the user?
[06:54] <Treenaks> robtaylor: because hald runs scripts as user hal
[06:54] <Treenaks> robtaylor: so there are 2 solutions: suexec or adduser hal dialout (because it's a serial port :))
[06:54] <robtaylor> ah
[06:58] <robtaylor> Treenaks: hmm. even with accessd you end up haveing to give the hal user dialout rights :/
[06:59] <robtaylor> (well you can make it more fine granied..)
[06:59] <bob2> selinux!
[06:59] <Treenaks> bob2: here's a bar of soap. please go wash your mouth.
[07:01] <robtaylor> really you want hald to say 'this script is meant for accessding this hardware device, it should have right to access it'
[07:02] <robtaylor> s/ is meant for accessding/ is being run to configure
[07:02] <robtaylor> hmm
[07:03] <robtaylor> thats non-trivial
[07:03] <robtaylor> I'll think on it.. time for home :)
[07:03] <robtaylor> laters all
[07:06] <zul> Treenaks: heh i started selinux for ubuntu
[07:08] <daniels> Kamion: cheers
[07:09] <Kamion> daniels: (hm, they told me downstairs that you'd gone to Barcelona)
[07:09] <daniels> Kamion: (this LUG has wifi)
[07:09] <Kamion> aha
[07:12] <Treenaks> daniels: are they impressed by your leet start-up crack? :)
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: dude!!! without network I'm not able to use my computer
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: you broke my GNOME!!
[07:13] <carlos> seb128: ;-)
[07:15] <daniels> Treenaks: haven't started talking yet!
[07:17] <Treenaks> daniels: you turned your laptop on, didn't you? :)
[07:19] <daniels> Treenaks: well yeah, but I'm still just sitting around
[07:19] <Treenaks> :)
[07:20] <seb128> carlos, no way dude
[07:21] <carlos> seb128: I'm not joking
[07:21] <carlos> without network I cannot use GNOME
[07:22] <carlos> empty desktop and empty panel
[07:22] <seb128> ??
[07:22] <seb128> no way
[07:22] <daniels> stop using an NFS-mounted /home :P
[07:22] <seb128>  killall gnome-panel gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus trashapplet
[07:23] <carlos> daniels: I'm not in home
[07:23] <carlos> seb128: restarting the computer
[07:23] <seb128> ok
[07:23] <seb128> good luck
[07:25] <carlos> seb128: I was trying to turn it on in the bus
[07:25] <carlos> I was not able
[07:25] <carlos> I will show it as soon as I'm back in matar
[07:25] <seb128> ok
[07:28] <TD> robtaylor|away: isn't the selinux integration supposed to do that?
[08:32] <motaboy> Sorry if I'm doing a stupid question, but I'm a little kde "developer" and I'm curious to know what's the ubuntu's idea about kde. Are you searching for people that will help you with kde related stuffs?
[08:41] <RubenV> motaboy: there's info about kubuntu on the wiki, i think
[08:45] <motaboy> RubenV: Thanks.
[08:56] <Riddell> motaboy: what sort of KDE development do you do and what sort of ubuntu kde development are you interested in?
[08:57] <motaboy> Riddell: well. I started doing kde-bluetooth and now I'm a gentoo developer on the kde ebuilds, but for work I've always used both gentoo and debian
[09:07] <RubenV> I'm trying to build coaster packages, if I'm successfull, I'll post a msg on the devel list
[09:19] <mjg59> Anyone out there got a T-series Thinkpad that /doesn't/ consume too much battery on ACPI suspend?
[09:19] <mjg59> (When suspended, you should lose about 1% of battery an hour. If it's closer to 10, you have a problem)
[09:20] <lifeless> mjg59: a thought, could you add that & to ifup -a in resume.sh ?
[09:21] <mjg59> lifeless: Grngk. Yeah.
[09:21] <lifeless> :)
[09:21] <mjg59> daniels was planning on getting stuff into hoary in the near future, so I may just let him do it
[09:21] <lifeless> heh.
[09:23] <daniels> mjg59: fo'shizzle
[09:23] <ironwolf> fo'shizzle?
[09:24] <daniels> 'absolutely'
[09:35] <RubenV> checking for xmlcatalog... not found
[09:35] <RubenV> configure: error:
[09:35] <RubenV> *** Ooops, couldn't find xmlcatalog.  Actually this should
[09:35] <RubenV> *** never happen at this point, which means your system is really broken.
[09:35] <RubenV> euh, anyone knows this?
[09:36] <RubenV> gah, wrong chan, sry
[09:40] <Treenaks> apt-get install xmlcatalog?
[09:42] <RubenV> appearantly it's in libxml2-utils
[09:42] <RubenV> coaster is building now
[09:42] <RubenV> let's see what it gives
[09:59] <RubenV> Ok I've got coaster building & packaging
[09:59] <RubenV> unfortunately it segfaults when i start it
[09:59] <RubenV> i give up
[09:59] <Treenaks> RubenV: apt-get install valgrind
[09:59] <RubenV> can't work with valgrind (never did)
[10:00] <Treenaks> RubenV: valgrind coaster<enteR>
[10:00] <Treenaks> read output :)
[10:01] <RubenV> that almost killed my system
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== ERROR SUMMARY: 25 errors from 8 contexts (suppressed: 171 from 1)
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== malloc/free: in use at exit: 1023191 bytes in 26633 blocks.
[10:02] <RubenV> ==15741== malloc/free: 72451 allocs, 45818 frees, 3614708 bytes allocated.
[10:03] <Treenaks> RubenV: build with debug symbols and it'll tell you the source lines and file names of the errors
[10:03] <RubenV> that's gonna be for some other day
[10:03] <RubenV> i'm tired of building :)
[10:03] <Treenaks> :)
[10:03] <Treenaks> RubenV: jump off
[10:04] <RubenV> I managed to bump libbakery to 2.3.11
[10:04] <RubenV> but coaster is giving me headache
[10:04] <RubenV> now i know why there are no packages for coaster :)
[10:48] <haggai> motaboy: hi, why don't you join us on #kubuntu-devel
[10:49] <motaboy> haggai: ok, thanks
[10:55] <Kamion> these CD builds are just so totally jinxed
[11:04] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync mtr from Debian?
[11:16] <elmo> pitti: done
[11:37] <pitti> elmo: thx