[12:01] <lamont_r> sigh...  conf connectivity to the US seems to have tanked.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> thom: shtoom packages.  *crave*
[12:19] <linux_mafia> anyone in here that can take ops in #ubuntu? you gotta kick this dude, he's flooding like crazy
[12:20] <linux_mafia> never mind, its stopped, and he said was a mistake
[12:25] <magnon> I love how it says "utnudu" on my chest while looking in the mirror.
[12:27] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: THERE ARE PACKAGES????
[12:27] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: he ITP-ed it, at least.
[12:27] <lamont_r> Mithrandir: DUDE! kewl.
[12:28] <Mithrandir> lamont_r: I'm bothering your buildds with YA ooo build.
[12:28] <Mithrandir> this one ought to work, though
[12:28] <lamont_r> feh
[12:30] <Mithrandir> hi haggai 
[12:30] <Mithrandir> haggai: do you want the patch for using stamp-dir instead of the target directly?
[12:31] <haggai> Mithrandir: yes, if you're not going to upload it
[12:31] <haggai> otherwise I'll just resync with the pkgs
[12:32] <Mithrandir> uploaded 15 minutes ago, or so.
[12:33] <RubenV> is it possible to reset your plone password, I wanna give Rosetta a try
[12:33] <RubenV> for Belgium Dutch
[12:38] <RubenV> hmmm, I've found my password in the firefox history
[12:38] <RubenV> but I can't log into the launch pad
[01:34] <mjg59> daniels: I've managed to get X into a weird state where it's not updating the background properly
[01:34] <mjg59> So if I change desktops, I get the contents of the previous desktop in the background behind the text
[01:34] <mjg59> Persists over X restarts, and I can screengrab it in this state
[01:34] <mjg59> daniels: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/brokenx.png
[01:36] <mjg59> daniels: A suspend/resume cycle seems to have fixed it, so I'm guessing it's some weird interaction between vbestate and X
[01:49] <wasabi_> Hey can somebody explain to me why we distribute mp3 software in universe
[01:49] <wasabi_> but not in main
[01:49] <wasabi_> is universe offshore or something?
[01:49] <wasabi_> Or is it simply principal?
[01:50] <infinity> May have more to do with the fact that Ubuntu main is a pretty small core set of packages, and universe is "everything else from Debian that doesn't FTBFS"
[01:50] <infinity> ie: Perhaps some folk don't consider said mp3 apps terribly "core".
[01:50] <wasabi_> So it just came along for the ride.
[01:51] <wasabi_> There are a number of instances on u-d where somebody's request for mp3 support from main was rebuked because of patent concerns.
[01:51] <wasabi_> Which begs the question of how it can be in universe. ;)
[01:51] <infinity> Oh, then ignore me. :)
[01:51] <wasabi_> Naw, im just asking.
[01:52] <infinity> Another valid concern would be that main is (likely) the only bit that ever makes it out on pressed/redistributed CDs.
[01:52] <infinity> I'm sure that makes a difference somewhere, to someone... Somehow.
[01:52] <infinity> You'd have to ask someone more in the know than I am, though.
[01:53] <wasabi_> My guess is that it's in Debian, and probably should be removed from Debian too. =/
[01:53] <wasabi_> But that nobody cares to do it. heh.
[01:54] <infinity> Debian has an interesting "decoders are kosher, encoders aren't" attitude, backed up by some rather interesting legal wrangling.
[01:54] <infinity> Are there mp3 encoders in main that I don't know about?
[01:54] <wasabi_> I thought xmms was
[01:54] <infinity> Just a decoder, afaik.
[01:55] <wasabi_> Well, Debian's legal stuff seems suspicious to me.
[01:55] <wasabi_> Decoders are clearly licensed.
[01:55] <infinity> Yes, it's the vailidity of the patent that seems to be in question, not the existance of it.
[01:55] <infinity> Or some such.
[01:55] <wasabi_> You only have to go to... franwhomevers site to see the prices listed.
[01:55] <wasabi_> I find it confusing that Debian would be prepared to accept that risk.
[01:56] <linux_mafia> on the shipping cds point of view, thats probably the sticking point, franhoffer (sp?) probably dosent go after you if you are not actively giving out mp3 capabilities
[01:56] <wasabi_> xmms is in main.. just checked.
[01:57] <linux_mafia> perhaps its an mp3 crippled one, like in rh/fedora
[01:57] <wasabi_> possible. I know Debina's isn't.
[01:57] <wasabi_> debians
[01:57] <infinity> Debian doesn't stand to lose much, really.  FH isn't likely to sue us (we don't have any money), and if they sent a cease and desist, we could.. Y'know... Cease.. And desist.
[01:57] <wasabi_> Ubuntu's position may change that.
[01:57] <wasabi_> At least practically.
[01:58] <wasabi_> THey seem to have money. ;)
[01:58] <infinity> Ubuntu's free to distribute what they want.
[01:58] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[01:58] <wasabi_> I'm just curious about it.
[01:58] <infinity> Obviously, Ubuntu doesn't (and never will) distribute all of Debian's archive.
[01:58] <wasabi_> it's hard to consistantly answer somebody's questions about mp3 support in gstreamer.
[01:58] <infinity> For a variety of reasons, from "some of it may get them in hot water" to "lots of it is crap".
[01:58] <linux_mafia> heh, i notice they keep well away from the vid/dvd stuff though, christian marillats little domain, i guess the RIAA always shoots to kill
[01:59] <wasabi_> marillat is in france i believe. 
[02:00] <infinity> s/RIAA/MPAA/
[02:00] <wasabi_> i think
[02:00] <wasabi_> thought.
[02:00] <infinity> And I wouldn't say Debian stays "right away from it"...
[02:00] <linux_mafia> infinity, yes sorry, thanks for correction
[02:00] <infinity> There are plenty of patent-encumbered MPEG decoders in an around Debian.
[02:01] <infinity> About the only thing missingis DeCSS.
[02:01] <infinity> And mplyer, but that has more to do with it having been a license nightmare for ages.
[02:02] <linux_mafia> infinity, actually youre right now you made me think a bit deeper about it, i guess i only think about the apps i use
[02:08] <mxpxpod> how do I go about making kernel-header packages that aren't empty?
[02:19] <wasabi_> make-kpkg kernel_headers not working?
[02:20] <mxpxpod> wasabi_: it's giving me /usr/src/kernel-headers-2.6.9-blah with only makefiles in the directory
[02:20] <wasabi_> that sucks. ;)
[02:20] <wasabi_> i haven't tried it in a long time, since Debian.
[02:21] <mxpxpod> wasabi_: do you make your own kernel-image .debs?
[02:21] <wasabi_> Since Ubuntu I haven't.
[02:22] <wasabi_> I think I got over it.
[02:22] <linux_mafia> mxpxpod, i do, whys that?
[02:22] <mxpxpod> linux_mafia: why's what?
[02:22] <infinity> mxpxpod : Are you doing it in the same invocation?
[02:22] <mxpxpod> infinity: yes
[02:22] <infinity> mxpxpod : make-kpkg kernel_image kernel_headers?
[02:22] <mxpxpod> infinity: yup
[02:22] <linux_mafia> mxpxpod, i thought you were gonna ask a question about making kernel-image debs
[02:23] <mxpxpod> infinity: well, I add a --append-to-version in there
[02:24] <infinity> What version of kernel-package do you have?
[02:25] <mxpxpod> 8.114ubuntu1
[02:25] <infinity> Doubly weird.  I have no problems with an essentially identical Debian version.
[02:26] <mxpxpod> infinity: so, you do it in the same invocation as well?

[02:28] <mxpxpod> welp, I gotta get going
[02:28] <mxpxpod> I'll try doing this again (maybe I screwed something up) and see what I come up with
[06:23] <diego> hi all
[06:23] <diego> what is being done to shorten boot times?
[06:28] <Treenaks> `qlots of things
[06:30] <diego> that's good...is there a page documenting the procedures being carried out?
[06:31] <Treenaks> uh
[06:31] <Treenaks> don't know
[06:31] <Treenaks> you should ask here in ~ 2.5 hours, when everyone on the conference wakes up
[06:32] <diego> conference?
[06:32] <Treenaks> thare's a conference going on in Mataro, Spain
[06:32] <Treenaks> with lots of Ubuntu developers
[06:33] <diego> oh right, right, i'll be sure to stick around then. thanks
[07:16] <ironwolf> lamont_r? you awake yet?
[08:51] <diego> good morning fabbione
[09:09] <daniels> mjg59: interesting, bob2 is seeing roughly the same thing
[09:37] <elmo> doko: a whole bunch got rejected - I assume you saw that?
[09:43] <Keybuk> Warning: Permanently added 'arch.netsplit.com' (RSA) to the list of known hosts.
[09:43] <Keybuk> ...why is that a Warning?  I just typed "yes"
[09:44] <Treenaks> Keybuk: you should've answered 'maybe'
[09:45] <Keybuk> n..no...no...no...no...no...n..no..Yes.
[10:06] <Keybuk>  Nothing like changing the byte order of structure fields to really drive the "out-of-tree" driver writers crazy. I like it :)
[10:06] <Keybuk> -- Greg Kroah-Hartman 
[10:06] <Keybuk> *snigger*
[10:06] <Treenaks> 8)
[10:07] <fabbione> mdz: you here?
[10:27] <Kamion> jdub: I wouldn't be so opposed to using python-udeb for individual UIs for modules that run after anna; that would only kill lowmem, and they can use newt or whatever
[10:27] <Kamion> jdub: python-udeb in the initrd I think is totally wrong.
[10:27] <Kamion> I suspect that may have been what joeyh was thinking of, but I'll have to talk with him
[10:28] <Kamion> however, that would mean adding cdebconf bindings to python
[10:55] <pitti> lifeless: btw, fixing pmount just for vfat is trivially easy, without changing umasks for CD-ROM etc.
[10:56] <lifeless> cool!
[10:57] <pitti> lifeless: I have to do some security stuff before, then I can do this
[11:12] <seb128> BONG, this discussion on the filenames translations in GNOME is endless
[11:13] <ross> "lets stop this endless discussion, ok?"
[11:13] <ross> "sure, but..."
[11:13] <sjoerd> seb128: your actually reading it ?
[11:14] <seb128> no, I've some real stuff to do actually :p
[11:14] <sjoerd> ;)
[11:22] <fabbione> pitti: -8 will have SELINUX compiled but disabled as we discussed yesterday
[11:30] <pitti> fabbione: cool
[11:37] <elmo> uh, shouldn't we drop support for like 2.1 by now?
[11:37] <jdub> daniels: come upstairs :)
[11:37] <elmo> if 2.4 is going to be the default
[11:37] <jdub> Keybuk: tell daniels to come upstairds
[11:37] <mdz> QualityAssuranceAndTesting BOF is starting upstairs NOW
[11:37] <Treenaks> /topic DANIELS, COME UPSTAIRS
[11:38] <Kamion> dists/hoary/restricted/binary-sparc/Packages.gz
[11:39] <Kamion> oops
[11:39] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-hoary-output/rdepends/python2.1/python2.1
[11:39] <Kamion> elmo: ^--
[11:41] <elmo> yeah, but most of those are surely because of 2.1 variants of other modules?
[11:41] <Kamion> build-depends sure, not convinced about the depends though
[11:42] <Kamion> pychecker's is an alternative dependency, python2.1 not default
[11:42] <Kamion> so yeah, probably correct
[11:43] <elmo> [and while we're at it, why not 2.2 too :p] 
[11:44] <Kamion> interesting, if I experimentally add universe to the list of components for germinating debootstrap, it wants to add dialog to base
[12:01] <Keybuk> lamont: how do I configure postfix to use a smarthost over tls with smtp authentication
[12:03] <Treenaks> lamont: please tell me the exact same thing :)
[12:09] <Kinnison> seb128: evolution's packaging... how do I easily edit a single patch?
[12:09] <lamont_r> Keybuk: you see the bts for postfix-tls and find the howto that's in one of those... it's a hoary thing I haven't done yet...
[12:12] <seb128> Kinnison, cdbs, patches are in debian/patches in standard diff format
[12:12] <seb128> so trivial I would say
[12:13] <azeem> seb128: how do you edit patches with cdbs' simple-patchsys?
[12:13] <azeem> with vi?
[12:23] <Kinnison> seb128: okay; give me the process for editing the 02 patch
[12:23] <daniels> azeem: badly
[12:24] <azeem> anybody using quilt for this stuff?
[12:25] <seb128> azeem, tar xzf *.orig.tar.gz && cp -af dir dir.org && cd dir && patch && cd .. && diff 
[12:26] <azeem> yeah
[12:26] <azeem> seb128: dude, this is almost 2005 :P
[12:26] <seb128> and ?
[12:27] <seb128> I almost never edit patches
[12:27] <seb128> I get them from bugzilla, or work with the CVS and cvs diff
[12:27] <thom> huh? seriously?
[12:27] <thom> dear god.
[12:27] <azeem> then you don't need quilt, and simple-patchsys is good enough
[12:27] <seb128> and I just need to cp the diff in debian/patches
[12:27] <daniels> thom	it's the only sane way to work with simple-patchsys
[12:27] <daniels> it is SO BROKEN
[12:27] <azeem> thom: cdbs can also use dpatch and quilt, besides its own simple-patchsys
[12:27] <thom> azeem: i know
[12:27] <seb128> thom, I edit the sources and diff on the source control system (cvs, svn, tla, ...)
[12:28] <daniels> dpatch is love
[12:28] <fabbione> daniels: why don't you switch X to dpatch?
[12:28] <seb128> daniels, you are the broken one dude
[12:29] <daniels> fabbione: stfu noob hth hand kthxbye
[12:29] <fabbione> daniels: uha uha uha
[12:29] <daniels> seb128: simple-patchsys doesn't scale to x, therefore it sucks :P
[12:29] <fabbione> doko: in your python upload orgy you forgot pyopengl
[12:30] <fabbione> at least that i can see
[12:30] <azeem> daniels: did you look at quilt?
[12:30] <daniels> azeem: yes
[12:30] <azeem> and?
[12:30] <daniels> it's quilt
[12:30] <azeem> I only looked at it briefly, and would like to know other people's opinions
[12:30] <azeem> aha
[12:31] <thom> subversion notably uses cdbs and quilt
[12:31] <thom> it looked like bad, bad crack to me
[12:31] <seb128> daniels, right :)
[12:32] <bob2> what should be saving my mixer settings over reboots?
[12:32] <bob2> (ie where should I file a bug when it doesn't ;)
[12:32] <thom> alsa
[12:33] <daniels> alsa-bsae
[12:33] <daniels> base
[12:34] <Kinnison> seb128: ye gods; that's vile
[12:48] <pitti> Keybuk: what about using procmail for local mail delivery?
[12:49] <thom> pitti: why?
[12:50] <pitti> thom: Keybuk's mail on u-devel
[12:50] <pitti> thom: kicking postfix
[12:50] <thom> no, why would you use procmail?
[12:50] <thom> i know the context
[12:50] <daniels> procmail is love
[12:51] <jamesh> procmail is worse than perl.
[12:51] <pitti> thom: it should reasonably act as a local MTA
[12:51] <pitti> thom: or does it not?
[12:51] <thom> pitti: but oh, the complexity!
[12:51] <thom> pitti: that's just replacing one horror show with a different one
[12:51] <pitti> thom: do you know something simpler?
[12:52] <thom> pitti: the suggestion is that we write a minimal one in python, according to scott's spec or the discussion thereof
[12:52] <pitti> thom: the suggestion was "unless there is something that already does this"
[12:53] <pitti> thom: I could not find one, though
[12:53] <pitti> thom: so rewriting one could be an option
[12:53] <pitti> thom: s/re//
[12:53] <thom> pitti: i think that if the choice is procmail or nothing, nothing wins
[12:54] <pitti> thom: then this basically means rewriting procmail in python, then?
[12:54] <jamesh> it should implement the sieve mail filtering spec
[12:54] <jamesh> since that has an RFC
[12:54] <jamesh> (and sieve scripts are actually readable)
[12:56] <pitti> jamesh: can't we at least use sieve and/or procmail as a "backend"?
[12:56] <pitti> thom: ^
[12:57] <pitti> then we only need a root daemon which calls procmail/sieve/whatever as the target user
[12:57] <elmo> pitti: dude, have you read the procmail source code?
[12:57] <pitti> elmo: yes, it's crap
[12:57] <elmo> that's insulting to crap
[12:58] <pitti> ;-)
[12:58] <jamesh> there is a sieve library implementation in Cyrus
[12:58] <pitti> jamesh: what about the one in mailutils?
[12:58] <daniels> root daemon + procmail == whoops
[12:58] <pitti> daniels: ?
[12:58] <jamesh> pitti: it has a sieve impl?
[12:58] <pitti> jamesh: "  sieve -- a mail filtering tool."
[12:58] <pitti> jamesh: ^  from the package description
[12:58] <pitti> jamesh: I don't know it, though
[12:59] <pitti> OTOH: for local-only delivery, we don't really need mail filtering
[12:59] <thom> pitti: indeed
[12:59] <pitti> evo etc. can do it on their own
[12:59] <thom> pitti: if you need that, use postfix
[12:59] <pitti> so basically, we only need a setgid mail daemon which appends the mails in /var/mail/$user?
[01:00] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:00] <pitti> this should indeed be easy
[01:00] <Keybuk> took me only about 10m to implement ... :p
[01:00] <Keybuk> . o O ( always implement the proposed spec before sending it :p )
[01:00] <lamont_r> Keybuk: your points 5-7 are incorrect...
[01:01] <Keybuk> lamont_r: no they are not
[01:01] <lamont_r> listens on 127.0.0.1
[01:01] <lamont_r> and ::1
[01:01] <Keybuk> doesn't
[01:01] <lamont_r> beg to differ.
[01:01] <Keybuk> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
[01:01] <pitti> tcp        0      0 localhost.localdom:smtp *:*                     LISTEN     4065/master
[01:01] <Treenaks> postfix listens on localhost -> master.cf to fix that
[01:01] <pitti> ^ default config
[01:01] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% sudo lsof -i :25
[01:01] <Keybuk> COMMAND   PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME
[01:01] <Keybuk> master  10807 root   11u  IPv6  85850       TCP *:smtp (LISTEN)
[01:01] <Keybuk> master  10807 root   12u  IPv4  85851       TCP *:smtp (LISTEN)
[01:01] <lamont_r> Keybuk: you changed your config, or had previously installed postfix from debian
[01:01] <Keybuk> lamont_r: neither.  fresh install _yesterday_
[01:02] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/canonical/xorg/arch/pristine/xorg-6.8.1/build-tree/xc/fonts/bdf/75dpi% netstat -an | grep 25
[01:02] <daniels> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:25            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN     
[01:02] <daniels> tcp6       0      0 ::1:25                  :::*                    LISTEN     
[01:02] <jamesh> pitti: I wonder if it uses the same implementation?
[01:02] <pitti> hmm, my config is still from warty
[01:02] <pitti> jamesh: as I said, I have no idea
[01:02] <sid77> hi
[01:03] <pitti> Keybuk: my master.cf says:
[01:03] <pitti> 127.0.0.1:smtp inet n   -       -       -       -       smtpd
[01:03] <pitti> ::1:smtp       inet n   -       -       -       -       smtpd
[01:03] <pitti> Keybuk: is that different from yours?
[01:04] <pitti> Keybuk: if so, then probably a patch got lost during the merge
[01:04] <Keybuk> entirely like;y
[01:04] <Keybuk> smtp      inet  n       -       -       -       -       smtpd
[01:04] <pitti> argh
[01:04] <lamont_r> pitti: I'll get that fixed
[01:04] <pitti> lamont_r: is it possible that this "localhost only" patch got lost during merge?
[01:06] <lamont_r> Keybuk: your proposed daemon - support for .forward files?  delivery to commands?  Those both render the problem into a can of worms
[01:07] <Keybuk> if users want that functionality, they can install a proper MDA
[01:08] <lamont_r> keybuk: is there a bug in bz for the bad default?
[01:08] <Keybuk> bz?
[01:08] <pitti> bugzilla?
[01:08] <lamont_r> bugzilla.
[01:09] <lamont_r> then I get to track down the config template change dropage
[01:10] <lamont_r> was introduced in 2.1.5-1ubuntu1 in hoary
[01:12] <lamont_r> on oct 30.  Any fresh install since then listens on *:25, and will until postfix is purged/installed, or the config is edited.
[01:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: Can you try http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3909 at some point?
[01:13] <Keybuk> mjg59: ooh, sure -- gimme an hour or two to finish playing smtpd
[01:13] <lamont_r> Keybuk: your proposed damon, 3 requires configuration - guessing doesn't work.  4 requires a full featured MTA, pretty much
[01:13] <Keybuk> disagree
[01:14] <Simira> you guys are working to hard! I can't keep up with the mailing-lists!
[01:15] <Treenaks> Simira: dont subscribe to hoary-changes ;)
[01:15] <Simira> Treenaks: I'm not.
[01:15] <Treenaks> Simira: THAT one's busy :)
[01:15] <Simira> though I consider update my server to hoary, as my sound don't work
[01:15] <Simira> Treenaks: I'm not on that OR users
[01:16] <pitti> lamont_r: is it now "postfixitagain"?
[01:19] <fabbione> doko: mind to check http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=278449 ?
[01:19] <fabbione> doko: perhaps you have an idea of a fix
[01:22] <trukulo> fabbione, chronicles about the conference, in spanish in my web
[01:23] <fabbione> hey trukulo !
[01:23] <fabbione> url?
[01:24] <trukulo> http://mercurio.homeip.net/blog/79/ <- only spanish , sorry
[01:31] <seb128> doko, 
[01:31] <seb128> Dpaquetage de python2.4-twisted ( partir de .../python2.4-twisted_1.3.0-4ubuntu1_all.deb) ...
[01:31] <seb128> dpkg: erreur de traitement de /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-twisted_1.3.0-4ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):
[01:31] <seb128>  tentative de remplacement de /usr/share/man/man1/im.1.gz, qui appartient aussi au paquet python2.3-twisted
[01:38] <moquist> I'm interested in working on an LTSP .deb for Ubuntu.  Anybody know if that's already happening?
[01:39] <moquist> Also, I'm coming from the Gentoo world (and I've never used Debian); are there virtual deps I need to know about when filling out Depends:, or can I just list packages by name?
[01:42] <thom> moquist: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s-virtual_pkg
[01:43] <moquist> thom: cool; thx!
[01:43] <thom> np
[01:48] <trukulo> fabbione, r u awake, there, and have 5 minutes?
[01:48] <sladen> did anyone get a "vegetarian" death-wish that didn't contain "salmon" ?
[01:49] <daniels> sladen: kinnison did, and palmed it off
[01:50] <sladen> Keybuk: did you manage get anything without fish in exchange?
[01:52] <fabbione> trukulo: i am awake of course.. i need 5 minutes before i have 5 minutes completely free... (smoking break)
[01:52] <trukulo> you have them
[01:52] <trukulo> :)
[01:52] <fabbione> ;)
[01:55] <fabbione> trukulo
[01:55] <fabbione> e
[01:55] <fabbione> re
[01:55] <trukulo> ok, query please
[02:04] <bob2> anyone noticed if usb-storage is significantly unfucked in the latest 2.6.9 kernels?
[02:04] <Treenaks> bob2: the weird ub driver got ditched
[02:04] <Treenaks> bob2: so it should work like it did in 2.6.8.1
[02:05] <bob2> oh, rock
[02:05] <bob2> now to just find my usb key
[02:05] <bob2> and camera cable
[02:05] <Treenaks> stupid logitech
[02:37] <Mithrandir> pitti: what's the current state of postgres 8?
[02:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: test suite fails for beta4; I did not try RC1 yet
[02:37] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: http://www.postgresql.org/news/253.html :)
[02:37] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I was more interested in the current state of it in ubuntu/debian
[02:38] <Mithrandir> I know the upstream state.
[02:38] <Treenaks> will it upgrade cleanly? :)
[02:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's still 7.4.6, and this is not going to change for Sarge
[02:38] <Treenaks> (unlike the 6.x->7.0->7.1->7.2->7.3->7.4 breakages)
[02:38] <sladen> Kinnison: dude, signkeys build chokes on noodles' keydb_db4.c
[02:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: if we need an 8.0 package in Ubuntu, then I can package it
[02:38] <Mithrandir> true, but there has been talk of putting one in experimental
[02:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: Oliver Elphick started repackaging it for the new multiversion architecture
[02:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: he did not report back so far :-(
[02:39] <Treenaks> Oliver Elphick should not be let close to pg8!
[02:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: but I will ping him, maybe I can finish the packaging
[02:40] <pitti> Treenaks: ?
[02:40] <Treenaks> pitti: afaik, he broke the upgrade scripts for the older postgresql series migrations
[02:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok
[02:40] <Treenaks> pitti: and didn't accept patches
[02:40] <pitti> Treenaks: the whole concept of the current upgrading is brokebn
[02:40] <pitti> Treenaks: patches do not help there any more
[02:41] <pitti> Treenaks: I rewrote half of the scripts, it got a bit better
[02:41] <pitti> Treenaks: but this does not help for woody upgrades since they still use the maitnainer scripts from 7.2
[02:41] <Treenaks> pitti: I'm on sarge, does that help?
[02:41] <pitti> Treenaks: that's why I persuaded him of complete repackaging
[02:42] <pitti> Treenaks: if you already run 7.4, then you are fine
[02:42] <Treenaks> pitti: OK :)
[02:42] <pitti> Treenaks: I write him a mail now
[02:42] <Kinnison> sladen: try ./configure --with-backend=fs or whatever it's called
[02:48] <daniels>   70025 debian/patches/000_stolen_from_6.8_branch.diff
[02:48] <daniels>  111987 total
[02:48] <bob2> Updating OpenOffice.org's dictionary list... done.
[02:48] <bob2> [Invalid UTF-8]  Could not parse file '/usr/share/applications/ooo645calc.desktop': desktop entry contain line 'Comment[ca] =Fulla de c\xc3| lcul d'OpenOffice.org' which is not UTF-8
[02:48] <daniels> mua ha ha 
[02:48] <Mithrandir> daniels: known issue
[02:48] <daniels> Mithrandir: what, that we have a lot of patches?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> uhm
[02:48] <Mithrandir> s/daniels/bob2/
[02:48] <bob2> ah
[02:51] <lupus_> Unpacking python2.4-twisted (from .../python2.4-twisted_1.3.0-4ubuntu1_all.deb) ...
[02:51] <lupus_> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-twisted_1.3.0-4ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):
[02:51] <lupus_>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man1/im.1.gz', which is also in package python2.3-twisted
[02:52] <fabbione> please stop pasting errors here
[02:52] <fabbione> it is a known problem
[02:56] <pitti> mdz: got a minute?
[03:00] <sladen> Kinnison: "# This is your name / primary UID or whatever"  <-- signee or singer?
[03:00] <mooch> daniels: dstone?
[03:01] <Kinnison> sladen signuid's encrypted content? signee
[03:02] <daniels> mooch: yeha
[03:02] <daniels> yeah, even
[03:03] <mooch> daniels: just funny that you noticed about the nokia possition
[03:07] <ross> hi mooch 
[03:15] <sid77> I've noticed that apt-get do 101 http get per tcp connection (or something similar), is there a way to modify this value?
[03:26] <sivang> You don't have permission to access / on this server."
[03:26] <Treenaks> sivang: what server
[03:26] <sivang> Treenaks : no sorry, this was meant to go private to someone..:)
[03:36] <moquist> Magnus just asked the ubuntu-devel list, but I'm less patient.  :)  Is this the place for aspiring devs to ask questions about package creation and testing, or is there another place to ask that stuff?  Wiki page, perhaps?
[03:43] <thom> moquist: here.
[03:43] <jdub_> $ sudo /etc/init.d/readahead_early restart
[03:43] <jdub_>  * Reading essential files...
[03:43] <jdub_> cat: /etc/readahead/earlyfiles: No such file or directory
[03:43] <jdub_>    ...done.
[03:43] <jdub_> 
[03:43] <jdub_> thom: needs a shutdown to have earlyfiles?
[03:44] <jdub_> thom: (shouldn't it be in /var?)
[03:44] <thom> no, readahead_early is irrelevant and not in your startup anymore
[03:44] <moquist> thom: k; thx.  In that case, what is the recommended testing method for new .deb files?  AFAICT I can't use 'apt-get' because my .deb isn't in any sources list.  But I want to make sure I've covered all the deps, so dpkg -i appears to be insufficient.
[03:44] <jdub_> thom: i just upgraded and /etc/init.d/readahead said that :)
[03:44] <ross> moquist: create a local repository?
[03:44] <thom> no, you just pasted readahead_early, not readahed
[03:44] <thom> readahead
[03:45] <jdub_> oh yeah
[03:45] <jdub_> and yet, it is still there
[03:45] <thom> in rcS?
[03:45] <moquist> ross: ok.  I wondered if that would be the answer, but didn't want to take off making things harder than they need to be (if indeed this is hard at all - I have no idea.)
[03:46] <thom> moquist: use apt-ftparchive to create an archive, it's really easy
[03:46] <jdub_> thom: no, but the initscript is there
[03:46] <thom> moquist: really, you ought to have at least a quick read of the debian NM guide. :-)
[03:46] <thom> jdub_: *shrug*
[03:46] <thom> jdub_: it'll go away if you purge, otherwise it does nothing
[03:47] <jdub_> still there after purge
[03:48] <thom> file a bug, severity trivial. it's cosmetic issue that mostpeople won't even see
[03:49] <jdub_> i have eyes in the back of my /etc/init.d directory
[03:49] <moquist> thom: k.  i've been looking at the Debian Policy Manual, but the NM list/guide/corner looks quite helpful.
[03:49] <thom> moquist: it definitely is
[03:50] <moquist> anybody know if there are plans for an 'ubuntu-mentors' mailing list ever?
[03:56] <jdub_> moquist: yeah, potentially in the new year
[03:57] <moquist> jdub_: cool.  that will be good.
[03:59] <Keybuk> [ #Broken: 37 ]  ... Impressive.
[04:00] <thom> Keybuk: eh?
[04:01] <Keybuk> 37 uninstallable packages currently
[04:03] <Kamion> 68 on i386 in main
[04:04] <Kamion> mostly python, doko's going to be looking at it
[04:07] <Keybuk> yeah, sadly "world" Depends: python  these days
[04:19] <sivang> moquist : you can try use the debian-mentors list at the moment, and contact ChrisH about it - he's the project ownder for debian mentors, most of the stuff are similar in packaging so you could get a good start.
[04:20] <pitti> Hi sivang!
[04:20] <moquist> sivang: thanks!
[04:21] <lamont__r> why did my mouse,and then keyboard go away, huh?
[04:22] <sivang> moquist : by the way he's a close freind of mine, so you can tell him I've sent you and you can join the #ubuntu-doc channel as he's also a memeber of ubuntu doc team :)
[04:22] <sivang> pitti : Hi marin!
[04:22] <sivang> pitti : Hi martin!
[04:22] <sivang> pitti : ENjoying the conference?
[04:22] <`anthony> can whoever has a laptop in the BOF room that will talk to the projector please grab http://www.interlink.com.au/anthony/tech/talks/Ubuntu/python-ubuntu.sxi
[04:22] <daniels> lamont__r: it's a gtk bug
[04:23] <lamont__r> grumble
[04:23] <lamont__r> seb128: fix it.  kthxbye
[04:24] <mdz> pitti: yes
[04:24] <pitti> mdz: "yes" to what?
[04:30] <Keybuk> this is just begging for FIGLET ...
[04:30] <Treenaks> Keybuk: who are you? GMAIL?
[04:30] <Keybuk> Treenaks: you are LIVE in the BOF room ...
[04:30] <daniels> HELLO BOF ROOM
[04:31] <Kamion> __   _____  _   _ ___   __  __ _   _ __  __
[04:31] <Kamion> \ \ / / _ \| | | | _ \ |  \/  | | | |  \/  |
[04:31] <Kamion>  \ V / (_) | |_| |   / | |\/| | |_| | |\/| |
[04:31] <Kamion>   |_| \___/ \___/|_|_\ |_|  |_|\___/|_|  |_|
[04:31] <Burgundavia_> regarding rosetta, it might be good if as the package is uploaded, you could have optionbox for the original language of the program, thus you wouldn;t have wierdness like gconf-editor saying it is not in English
[04:32] <jdub_> /bin/sh: 3: No such file or directory
[04:33] <jdub_> /bin/sh: 3: No such file or directory
[04:33] <`anthony> Python BOF starting in a couple of minutes.
[04:33] <Treenaks> go jdub_, go jdub_ 
[04:33] <jdub_> haha
[04:33] <jdub_>  ___   _    _____   _____   _   _ ___ _   _ _  _ _____ _   _ 
[04:33] <jdub_> |_ _| | |  / _ \ \ / / __| | | | | _ ) | | | \| |_   _| | | |
[04:33] <jdub_>  | |  | |_| (_) \ V /| _|  | |_| | _ \ |_| | .` | | | | |_| |
[04:33] <jdub_> |___| |____\___/ \_/ |___|  \___/|___/\___/|_|\_| |_|  \___/ 
[04:33] <jdub_> 
[04:34] <daniels> (developers! developers! developers! developers!)
[04:34] <sid77> o_O
[04:34] <daniels>                 _   _                   
[04:34] <daniels>  _ __ ___ _ __ | |_| |__   ___  _   _   
[04:34] <daniels> | '__/ _ \ '_ \| __| '_ \ / _ \| | | |  
[04:34] <daniels> | | |  __/ | | | |_| |_) | (_) | |_| |_ 
[04:34] <daniels> |_|  \___|_| |_|\__|_.__/ \___/ \__, (_)
[04:34] <daniels>                                 |___/   
[04:34] <lamont__r> jdub_: proportinal fonts can suck
[04:35] <Burgundavia_> daniels, you missed about 15 developers
[04:35] <daniels> Burgundavia_: the ubuntu developer base isn't actually 20, i don't think
[04:36] <Burgundavia_> no, i was refering to the rant from ballmer
[04:36] <daniels> ah
[04:49] <sivang> are we online a BOF room's LCD?
[04:49] <sivang> jdub : when is the first Ubuntu love day ? :))
[04:49] <jdub_> sivang: january
[04:49] <jdub_> sivang: not on the bof screen atm
[04:49] <Treenaks> Ubuntu love day?
[04:50] <Keybuk> Burgundavia_: rant? ballmer?
[04:51] <jdub_> fun for bug hunters, new maintainers, etc.
[04:51] <sivang> Treenaks : go to irc.gimp.net, join #gnome-love :)
[04:52] <Keybuk> ubuntu love involves groups of threes though
[04:52] <Keybuk> much more fun
[04:52] <ross> rofl
[04:52] <ross> the ubuntu love circle
[04:52] <ross> ewww, bad bad thoughts
[04:55] <Burgundavia_> ttp://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg
[04:57] <sivang> and they need to be from at least three different places in the world :)
[05:15] <bob2> SPECIAL
[05:16] <pitti> elmo: around somewhere?
[05:22] <pitti> elmo: I sent you a mail with the exception
[05:44] <Keybuk>  * gimp-python depends on python (< 2.4)
[05:44] <Keybuk> d'oh
[05:44] <Keybuk>  * python-twisted depends on python (< 2.4)
[05:44] <Kinnison> oops
[05:49] <Kinnison> "Matthias Klose stole my apt-get upgrade"
[05:50] <daniels> i want 'it's a bug in gtk' t-shirt
[05:50] <Keybuk> "iz gtk bug"
[05:50] <Kinnison> nonono
[05:50] <daniels> '(*) Reassign to [seb128@canonical.com] '
[05:51] <Kinnison> gtk_bug_set_assignment (GTK_BUG(foobar), GTK_BUG_OWNER_SEB128);
[05:55] <elmo> pitti: okay, I've applied the mother of all disgusting hacky crap workarounds - please try amber again ?
[05:56] <pitti> elmo: sure
[05:57] <pitti> d'oh
[05:57] <pitti> elmo: now I get a different exception
[05:57] <sivang> people, what is DOAP? :) I don't recall antyhing about it on the morning sessions..:)
[05:58] <thom> description of a project
[05:58] <sivang> thom : nothing more? nothing related to bug tracking and/or revision control? 
[06:05] <jdub_> sivang: google for it, you will end up at usefulinc
[06:05] <ross> doap rules
[06:05] <ross> jdub_: did i mention that burtonini serves doap files from inside the blog tree?
[06:05] <ross> with a l33t pyblosxom plugin
[06:06] <daniels> ill
[06:06] <ross> which i'll sell to canonical for... a million dollars
[06:06] <jdub_> ross: rad!
[06:06] <jdub_> haha
[06:06] <sivang> jdub_ : where there an official announcment regarding it?
[06:07] <jdub_> sivang: it's not really an announcing kind of thing
[06:07] <sivang> jdub_ : ah ok then :) how is your leg btw?
[06:07] <ross> i hope eugenia does switch to doap
[06:07] <jdub_> sivang: it's just a standard
[06:07] <jdub_> sivang: good, the drugs *do* work
[06:08] <Keybuk> http://www.cafepress.com/keybuk
[06:08] <sivang> jdub_ : ah nice to hear, have you been to barcelona some more times since our last trip there? :) any nice photos?
[06:09] <ross> oh oh i want seb to break my panel so i can wear cheap tat
[06:10] <sivang> jdub_ : oh like SOAP :) silly me..
[06:12] <robtaylor> hey.. whats the name of the guy working on baz-ng?
[06:13] <Keybuk> Martin Pool
[06:13] <robtaylor> is his proposal written up anywhere?
[06:13] <Keybuk> no ide
[06:13] <robtaylor> ah well =)
[06:16] <ross> ha
[06:16] <doko> keybuk: at least for gimp-python I'd like to pass the t-shirt to lamont_r :-p
[06:16] <ross> Keybuk: you've got to add a cockfosters tee
[06:16] <Keybuk> OMG!  HOW DID I FORGET THAT?!
[06:17] <ross> "I Opened A Cafepress Store And Forgot To Do A Cockfosters Shirt"
[06:21] <daniels> Keybuk: don't forget the 'Is that in the midlands?' shirt
[06:24] <ross> am i allowed to chop the ubuntu logo up?  i.e. just have the circle?
[06:24] <ross> or will sabdfl kick my arse?
[06:25] <jdub_> ross: send a trademark request to info
[06:25] <jamesh> seb128: jrb says he's rolling a gnome-control-center tarball
[06:25] <seb128> ok ...
[06:26] <jdub_> ross: it's unlikely that you'd be allowed, though
[06:27] <ross> bah
[06:27] <ross> oh oh, prior usage
[06:27] <ross> the web site favicon is the circle on it's own
[06:28] <jdub_> not on ubuntu
[06:28] <jdub_> canonical logo is a very similar circle (reversed) without the dots
[06:29] <ross> ubuntu.com has a favicon, which is the circle on a white bg, for me
[06:29] <jamesh> also, an third party wanting to chop up the logo is a bit different from Canonical producing derivatives
[06:29] <ross> jamesh: in that case canonical should do the t-shirt design i want :)
[06:30] <jamesh> ross: submit your idea to info@ then :)
[06:30] <jdub_> ross: send the design, we're going to have a competition anyway
[06:30] <jdub_> (the favicon totally has circles on it)
[06:30] <jamesh> jdub_: I think ross was talking about "just the circles" as "without the text"
[06:31] <ross> yeah
[06:31] <ross> jdub_: info@ubuntu.com?
[06:31] <jdub_> ross: jeff.waugh@canonical.com
[06:31] <jdub_> i don't get info
[06:50] <Keybuk> elmo: just for you ... http://www.cafepress.com/keybuk.15390259
[06:54] <Kinnison> seb128: Would you prefer a new patch file, or an interdiff of the two packages for this replacement buttons diff?
[06:54] <seb128> new patch
[06:55] <Kinnison> okay
[06:56] <seb128> Kinnison, feel free to upload if you want :)
[06:58] <Kinnison> seb128: I'm not in the keyring
[06:58] <Kinnison> seb128: And I like it that way
[07:00] <seb128> Kinnison, ok, fine
[07:03] <ross> jdub_: cafepress.com/burtonini
[07:04] <daniels> heh!
[07:05] <daniels> Earnings & Sales
[07:05] <daniels> Potential commission: $0.00
[07:05] <daniels> ($0.00 cleared, $0.00 pending) 
[07:05] <daniels> YOU BASTARDS.
[07:05] <ross> do you have tat too?
[07:06] <daniels> yep
[07:07] <ross> oh oh oh
[07:07] <ross> i presume it's not /daniels
[07:08] <Keybuk> not unless he has hidden talents
[07:08] <daniels> ross: keep on guessing
[07:08] <thom> fooishbar
[07:08] <daniels> THOM WINS
[07:08] <ross> that was my next guess
[07:14] <azeem> lamont_r: can't you take out those uint16_t fixes from 50hurd.dpatch into a seperate patch at least? They look pretty generic to me and would cut down the size of the patch a fair bit
[07:16] <lamont_r> the hurd patch needs to come in as a collection of smaller patches...  upstream considers them gratuitous changes, near as I can tell.
[07:16] <lamont_r> and 2.12l-1 added even more stuff to 50hurd.dpatch. :-(
[07:17] <lamont_r> like 90% of the agetty changes (leaving a comment and a couple includes there from my hacking, and removing all of the termio->termios change)
[07:17] <lamont_r> ditto for xgethostname, although upstream hasn't looked at that to see what he thinks yet.
[07:18] <lamont_r> I need to look at 10mount.dpatch and split that up some.  getblocks is ugly messy, and came in with the hurd patch (and is broken.)
[07:21] <azeem> braindmg did the patch, btw, but he's away until next week
[07:23] <azeem> lamont_r: ah, you mean you found more parts of the original hurd patch in other patches, and put them back into 50hurd for 2.12l-1?
[07:24] <jdub_> ross: ahem. no attachment. :-)
[07:25] <lamont_r> yeah
[07:25] <ross> jdub_: use your imagination :)   sure i won't be sued for cropping the logo? :)
[07:25] <lamont_r> there may be 1 or 2 parts that actually are in 2.12l upstream
[07:25] <azeem> good start :)
[07:40] <jdub_> ross: playing with trademarks is frowned upon ;)
[07:42] <ross> ssh
[07:43] <elmo> Keybuk: dude.  that rocks
[07:44] <Keybuk> I thought you'd appreciate it
[07:44] <elmo> what's with the OHMIGODMYEYES colour of the Are We There Yet one tho?
[07:46] <Keybuk> you can only put one of each product on the cheapskate shop
[07:57] <mooch> dudes, come to the 1st floor to see the thing...
[07:57] <mooch> it is quite cool, and there is nobody here
[07:57] <jdahlin> seb128: I hope pango 1.8.0 is in hoary
[07:57] <mooch> although is already 30 min late
[07:59] <seb128> jdahlin, not yet, fighint with other stuff
[08:01] <jdahlin> seb128: man you're so slow. it's been out for a whole 30 minutes
[08:26] <spotter> this url (in firefox) kills my gnome desktop
[08:26] <spotter> http://www.jascoproducts.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/go/2005_tech_glamcam.html?L+scstore+tjwj6461ff441244+1102678043
[08:26] <spotter> weirdest thing
[08:26] <spotter> also does it things in mozilla
[09:48] <trulux> i'm going to make a talk in the Umeet about hardened debian
[09:48] <trulux> the sunday, 20:00 gmt
[09:48] <trulux> i would like to have some Ubuntu gcc packages ready for that day, so, doko, are you there?