/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/01/02/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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sivangplovs_: ping12:25
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Burgundavia_hey all01:50
sivanghey again, still a couple of minutes to  go.01:59
Burgundavia_you tried out baz yet?02:04
sivangBurgundavia_: ah not past installing it....not yet, been busy with country team and other stuff..02:06
Burgundavia_ah02:07
Burgundavia_Is cool stuff02:07
sivangyes, it sure looks like it is :)02:07
Burgundavia_I promised to write a quickstart guide before Jan 402:07
Burgundavia_So I have my hands full learning it02:07
sivangyou should contact plovs about it - he may have done lots of work on it I think02:07
Burgundavia_I meant to baz02:11
sivangeh for it :)02:11
sivanghehe02:11
Burgundavia_As for the quickguide, ya I would like to see what is bubbling over02:11
sivangNow i get it02:11
sivangBurgundavia_: so any doc ready for baz?02:11
Burgundavia_should be fun, as the current stuff is crap, thus I have rewrite it02:12
Burgundavia_current stuff is all tla02:12
sivangthere is a guide/howto currently?02:12
sivangeh, not for the baz interface..02:12
Burgundavia_there is a really really wierd one02:12
Burgundavia_just install bazaar-doc and take a lok02:12
sivangthis is the current guide?02:13
Burgundavia_ya, that is the arch docs02:13
sivangwhere does it install it?02:13
Burgundavia_apt-get install bazaard-doc02:14
Burgundavia_bazaar-doc02:14
sivangdid that, does it appear under /usr/share/doc ?02:14
Burgundavia_is think so02:15
Burgundavia_ya, under bazaar-doc in that dir02:15
sivanglooks strange , true.02:17
sivangthe tla -h is something even more bizaar02:18
sivang:)02:18
Burgundavia_as you can see, it needs an overhaul, so that real people can actually use baz, not to mention all the changes02:19
sivangactually, the tutorial doesn't look _that_ bad, ofcourse I dind't really try those commands with tla.02:20
sivangso baz is working on top of tla?02:21
Burgundavia_no, baz is tla forked02:22
sivangah, so it's the same code with improvements?02:25
Burgundavia_ya02:27
Burgundavia_as the devs describe it, tla without the crack02:30
Burgundavia_all right, got to catch my flight02:50
Burgundavia_talk to you in a couple of days02:50
sivanganybody here?04:43
sivangnot asleep?04:43
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enricohello!  Anyone around?07:56
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://irclog.workaround.org | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first.
=== Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by sivang at Sat Nov 20 20:50:09 2004
enricoChrisH: hello!09:35
enricoChrisH: everything allright?09:36
enricoI had this question: how do I show an image in a wiki page in Moin format?09:36
ChrisHenrico: more or less... baby is getting another tooth... total sleep time last night: 10 minutes :)09:37
ChrisHenrico: Didn't figure it out either. I was googling around for hours already but couldn't find any decent documentation of the Moin markup09:38
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cenerentolaciao babbari09:50
enricoChrisH: ah, ok.  The only thing I found is that if in Moin you write a URL pointing to an image, the image shows up09:55
enricoChrisH: however, this would be a URL pointing to a WikiName09:55
enricocenerentola: ciao09:55
enricoChrisH: oh, well, I'll do without maybe09:55
cenerentolado you guys know if there0s already a welcome panel [something that shows up when you run ubuntu after installation, or everytime u use the live cd] 09:56
cenerentolaplanned..09:56
cenerentola?09:57
ChrisHenrico: I'd be happy for /any/ piece of documentation about Moin. Looks like it a grand secret.09:57
enricocenerentola: yes, there is an "about ubuntu" HTML page which is about to be converted into DocBook to show it as a Yelp welcome page09:58
enricoChrisH: oh, in the Moin websites you find many things09:58
cenerentolaenrico: i meant something like mandrake's one... with links to the control centre and so on..09:59
enricoChrisH: Please also have a look at DifferencesWithRealMoin09:59
enricoChrisH: I remember plovs was also working on a Moin markup cheat sheet09:59
enricoChrisH: as soon as he comes online, we can ask10:00
enricocenerentola: should be something like that, yes10:00
cenerentolaenrico: thanks a lot... e hooray for la gnocca10:01
enricocenerentola: hooray!10:02
enricoChrisH: can you access the svn repo at 69.155.172.150 ?10:02
enricoI committed regularly 5 minutes ago, and now I can't seem to be able to checkout 10:03
enricoconnection times out10:03
enricowell, hasn't timed out yet, but it's been doing nothing for a long time10:03
ChrisHenrico: Yes, the svn repo works here.10:05
ChrisHenrico: plovs has written a short list of Moin markup. But it includes titles and lists - that's it. I couldn't find anything about tables, nested lists, embedded images etc.10:06
enricoChrisH: tables are easy: just have a look at the source of the conference page, which has a table with people that did plan to attend10:07
enrico[svn]  Ok, I may have routing problems from here, then10:07
ChrisHenrico: Sure, I could get it all together by looking at other people's pages. I just wished there was a reference manual somewhere. And Moin is widespread enough that there should be something like that IMHO. Not on our Wiki but from the developers of the MoinWiki.10:07
cenerentolaeverybuddy in da chan [and Her Majesty Enrico "The Secretary"] : when u're finished, could you please give some hints, and directives to introduce the "Ubuntu Course Book" to the school council?10:08
cenerentolathanks a lot ;-)10:10
enricoUsually in the MoinMoin pages there is one explaning the markup, in every MoinMoin wiki10:15
enricoLet me find you one10:15
enricoChrisH: http://www.bfsf.it/wiki/HelpOnEditing10:16
enricoChrisH: is that what you were looking for?10:16
ChrisHenrico: Ah, very good, thanks.10:17
enricocenerentola: I suggest you discuss such a strategy with a friendly professor in that school, so that you create a project which suits the local context of the school itself10:19
cenerentolaenrico: ok, but what about the contents... ohh i see.. you're going to be the project manager...10:21
cenerentolaok10:21
cenerentola..5...4...3....2....1... chi tace acconsente... THANK YOU ENRICO ;)10:21
=== enrico larts cenerentola with a huge club
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enricoAbout the contents, I suggest you just let the school project decide on them10:22
enricoIf they use Ubuntu, then they can create a guide for schools with what they feel it is relevant for them10:22
cenerentolaenrico: well since we're going to use it "everywhere"... and you have THE EXPERIENCE... some hints would be a nice idea thou10:22
enricoThe outcome of such local project usually brings in creativity from the new environment (which is the school) and has a better quality than anything that can be created in the existing old community10:23
enricoplovs: good morning!10:23
cenerentolaenrico: buon giorno plovs.10:23
cenerentola!10:23
enricocenerentola: my experience has always been to let people (schools, course attendees) decide on what's best for them10:23
cenerentolaenrico: so i will. oki.10:24
enriconot only they'd bring more in a different kind of experience, but they'd feel the work "more belonging to them" ("pi loro") and do things with more enthousiasm10:24
cenerentolanice translation..10:25
cenerentolaenrico: you're right.. wax on... wax off...10:25
enricoplovs: I remember you were writing (or about to write) a Moin markup cheat sheet... is it already online somewhere?10:26
enricoChrisH: :((  can't access the svn repo from Italy either :'(10:26
enricoThe funny thing is that I stopped being able to access it just when I was trying to do an svk mirror! :(10:27
ChrisHenrico: Same here now. The repository is a /bit/ too unreliable for my taste.10:27
enrico(http://svk.elixus.org/)  I met the developers here in Taiwan over the week-end10:28
enrico2 days ago I wrote to John asking what to do if the repo is down while he's in Vegas, but he hasn't got back to me yet10:28
ChrisHYes another archive system? :) Like baz isn't confusing enough.10:28
ChrisH*Yet10:28
enricoChrisH:  :)10:29
enricoChrisH: this is a toy that runs on top of subversion that I wanted to try, but nothing that would annoy anyone that is not interested10:29
enricoChrisH: it's only that there are people that use it in other svn repositories that I work in, and find it cool, so I wanted to have a look10:30
ChrisHRead that. I won't object to that. One thing that I sometimes find annoying in Ubuntu is that every common system is being trashed and rewritten.10:30
cenerentolaq enrico : no no.. Miyagi sensei.. wax on... wax off10:31
enricoChrisH: :)10:31
cenerentolasorry..10:31
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=== ChrisH has reached a rate of three cups of cappuccino per hour now
cenerentolaChrisH: what kind of cappuccino? italian? or rest-of-the-world one?10:34
ChrisHcenerentola: Rest-of-the-world-in-a-can-in-power-form-to-be-put-in-boiling-water10:35
ChrisH*powder10:35
cenerentolablahhh ;)10:36
ChrisHI just do it for the caffeine. I'm out of syringes.10:36
cenerentolaok.. have you tried to smoke dried bananas?10:37
enricosvn mirror is up again10:38
enricosorry: svn repository is up again.10:38
enricoNow I try mirroring it!10:38
cenerentolaenrico: that cinese thing is in perl... you... betrayer10:38
cenerentola;)10:38
enricocenerentola: first think, it's taiwanese: if you call it chinese, it's a diplomatic incident :)10:39
cenerentolachrish: i think that there will be a Hoary release party, in april, in Milan... you're absolutely invited..10:39
cenerentolaenrico: sorry..10:39
cenerentolaenrico: what about the ninja that ran into the kitchen's window... did i say sth so wrong?10:40
cenerentolaChrisH: at least you'll drink something that can, reasonably, be called cappuccino: the other half of heavens..10:41
ChrisHcenerentola: Thanks. :) But looking back to the chaos I had in Mataro I think I'll rather stay home and watch it from here. :)10:41
enricoChrisH: chaos?10:41
ChrisHenrico: Wife and baby mostly. Completely wrong decision to allow them to come with me.10:42
ChrisHenrico: I had enjoyed the conf much more if I had more to time to spend with other people. This way I had 5 minutes with everybody and it was like running from one chaos to another.10:42
ChrisHenrico: Or do you remember having seen me sitting relaxed at my notebook (which didn't boot every second time)? :)10:43
enricoChrisH: :)10:43
enricoChrisH: it's quite normal for conferences, however, to only be able to do 10% of what you planned10:43
ChrisHenrico: It not the fault of the conference at all. But like this is was just annoying.10:43
enricoit's almost normal that 10% is a big lot of things, also because you add 90% of what you didn't plan10:44
ChrisHenrico: Needed to learn a lot of names from people I had hardly talked with on IRC. That slowed things down. And of course hardly anyone knew me. :)10:44
enricoChrisH: unfortunately, the weather was not nice enough for your wive to bring the child to the beach or something like that10:44
ChrisHenrico: We had one walk at the beach and she absolutely enjoyed being there (after staying in the living room for 9 months with a baby that just talks like a core dump). So she liked it. But it was an obstruction to me.10:45
ChrisHenrico: After four days I was very glad to be back home.10:45
ChrisHenrico: Travelling large distances bothers me already. But carrying half of a children room with me and pacify a crying baby is not very relaxing.10:46
enricoChrisH: :)10:53
enricoChrisH: but the crying baby talking like a core dump is so cute anyway10:53
ChrisHenrico: Admitted. :) And he is godlike in choosing one-time passwords.10:55
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enricoChrisH: OH!  That is cool!11:00
enricoChrisH: although you risk low entropy maybe?  "babbaababah"11:00
enricoI made a local full mirror of the repository11:01
enriconow I try to play with it11:01
enricofirst thing I tried to do, I found a bug in svk! :)11:24
enricoI'm so powerful :)11:24
cenerentolaenrico: what about your brand new laptop? did you buy it?11:41
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enricocenerentola: sure!  Bought new laptop the day after I got here, I'm superhappy about it03:15
enricocenerentola: saved around 300eur03:15
cenerentolaenrico: vattinne  raccomandato emmerda03:24
cenerentolashould we know the specs?03:24
enricocenerentola: :)  ASUS Centrino 1.6, 4hours battery, 768Mb RAM, 60Gb HD, ATI mobility 9000, USB Firewire IrDA PCMCIA, video 14.2, centrino wireless, bag, 1 optical USB mouse, alluminium case: only weights 2.2Kg03:26
enricocenerentola: 1088euro all inclusive03:26
cenerentoladont worry even the "fanculizzati raccomandato" is included DO NOT WORRY or PAIN.03:27
=== ChrisH considers buying a Pentium M flaptop or 999 Eur...
enricoChrisH: where??03:28
cenerentolachrish: have a look on google: powerbook 888p03:28
cenerentolait costs a little more but it worths every cent03:29
cenerentola;)03:29
enricocenerentola: oh, and Linux works with all the hardware I tried so far03:29
cenerentolaenrico: blah.. disgustin03:29
enricoI used the Ubuntu live CD to test the laptop before buying it03:29
cenerentolaenrico: ehehe... Because You Warty't03:30
cenerentola...ok stupid sentence03:30
ChrisHenrico: at my employer... let me grab the link03:30
enricooh, nice, the svn repo is down again03:31
ChrisHhttp://www.otto.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/OttoDe/de_DE/-/EUR/OV_DisplayProductInformation-ProductRef;sid=fZ8cOrfZHIceOvYQ-Lg2Gqx1pCJUqRuRUVQn7Yo7pboF9d0GzWI=?ProductRef=7572121-0-17654@OttoDe&ls=0&SearchDetail=1&aktPage=0&Query_Text=laptop&Farbe_Text=&ArtikelID_Text=&Personen_Text=&PreisMin_Text=&PreisMax_Text=&Hersteller_Text=&Artikel_Text=&Stichwoerter_Text=&Artikel=Notebook&Hersteller=&Trend=&stype=normal03:31
enricoChrisH: if you pasted me the webpage contents, it was probably shorter :)03:32
ChrisHSimilar to this one (sorry for the ugly link). Just with a Pentium M. DVD burner, 256 MB RAM, 30 GB hdd, and (!) XP Home :)03:32
ChrisHMinus 15% for me. ;)03:32
enricoChrisH: sounds like a great deal!!03:33
ChrisHenrico: At least better than my Pentium III 400 with 128 MB (not upgradable). :(03:34
enricoCentrinos are nice: lots of battery time, wireless lan (works with linux no ndiswrapper, here at least)03:34
cenerentolaid say works with ubuntu03:35
cenerentolanot every distro has ipw drivers 03:35
enricoyes, works with ubuntu03:35
enricoIn Debian you install the ipw driver source, compile it against the current kernel headers, then download the firmware from Intel (or copy it from Ubuntu)03:35
cenerentolawhich is someting "longer"03:36
cenerentola*h*03:36
enricooh, yes03:36
cenerentolaenrico: do you know what kind of windows manager martin schulze uses?03:46
enricouh, no, no idea03:47
enricoBut if all windows are fullscreen, or you can't see the background in any way, it must be ion03:47
cenerentolaok thx03:51
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enricoplovs: hello!04:17
enricoplovs: around?04:17
sivangplovs: are you finaly here? ;l)04:17
enricoquestion: what is the canonical ubuntu way for burning CDs?04:52
sivangenrico: you should ask kamoin about it, he has some hackish script that tried to do that 04:53
enricosivang: you mean, no CD-burning programs in main?04:54
enricoI don't mean "burning Ubuntu CD images", but just mastering CDs using Ubuntu04:54
sivangenrico: I don't think so, most of the are in optional04:54
enricoSo, if someone asks "how do I burn a CD with Ubuntu?", what do we answer?04:54
sivangenrico: nautilus04:55
sivangenrico: so it's 04:55
sivang_in_ main from the desktop point of view04:55
sivangthat is, you open "nautilus-cd-burner" and use it04:55
sivangand it comes intalled on the desktop.04:55
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enricosivang: ok, thanks04:58
enricojust adding one or two things to the Applications for people migrating from windows part of the users guide04:58
enricosivang: BTW, you need to use <para> tags around every paragraph, not only around the full text.  I already fixed your intro in the guide04:59
sivangenrico: good, please bug me on the intro part - I have sketches somewhere on my desktop and I finally need to get it done :)04:59
sivangenrico: hehe was just hinking of that :)04:59
sivangenrico: thanks!05:00
enricosivang: please work offline at the moment, as the repository is a bit down05:00
sivangenrico: yes, we should investigate baz further and have the repo integrated with the rest of the hoary team05:00
sivangIMHO05:00
enricobut since you don't quite celebrate Christmas there, you're welcome to bring forward the work while the others idle a bit ;)05:01
enricosivang: eh, but it'd be a bit soon now.  We should actually have a stable repo05:01
enricoI can't understand what's so wrong in it :(05:01
sivangenrico: wrong about what?05:02
sivangwow there is even a webmin-burner - CD burning module for webmin05:02
enricowrong in that repository: it goes down so often :(05:04
sivangenrico: I wanted to mail hornbeck something about that, but then felt it was rude so I dropped that idea, you recall he christmas las vegas holiday mail?05:04
enricoYes.  But don't worry: I mailed him about it05:05
=== asw waves -- sorry we never really chatted in Barcelona!
enricoasw: hey!05:05
sivangasw: yo!05:05
sivangcenerentola: who is martin schulze?05:06
enricosivang: btw, about the markup, you can use yelp to directly show the DocBook XML files: this saves time and provides for a quick preview05:06
sivangenrico: Ah I know, I have this on my desktop:05:07
sivangenrico: boy net accesss from uni is _so_ slow 05:09
sivangasw: it was very nice meeting though ! :)05:09
sivangasw: I especially enjoyed listening to you on the chineese resturant :) although I was trying to timeshare between the two sides of the table :)05:10
aswI enjoyed meeting both of you.  I thought you guys were going to join us when I ended up talking to plovs until 3am.  What happened?05:36
aswsivang, enrico: but I should really get some food [which is why I'm marked "away"] 05:36
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sivangasw: go get some :)05:51
sivanghey ChrisH 05:51
enricoasw: we had a walk in the beach, then came back, but everyone disappeared05:55
enricoI spent some time talking with mako about a bunch of important things we had pending05:55
=== enrico is about to go to bed
ChrisHsivang: hey, master :)05:56
enricoI asked Elmo about the status of svn migration to Canonical webfarm and we chatted a bit about it, trying to sync with the current status of the situation05:57
sivangChrisH: hey father to a model to be baby :)05:58
ChrisHenrico: sounded like elmo is too canonical to like svn :)05:58
enricoResult, we won't have it before beginning of next year, as Elmo will be in vacation as well starting from today05:58
ChrisHsivang: say what? :)05:58
enricoChrisH: no, not really.  He just has to work out the details to fit us accessing the svn repository with the farm security policy05:58
ChrisHenrico: I felt they wanted us to migrate it to baz asap05:59
enricoChrisH: if they do, then they should set up this baz sandbox one day :)06:00
ChrisHenrico: true06:01
enricogoing to bed.06:07
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cenerentolaasw: ping06:21
plovshi all06:29
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plovsChrisH: hi! i just continued on a doc and find out how to make links working!07:00
ChrisHplovs: Great. How? :)07:03
plovs <link linkend="sect-general">General Notes</link>07:09
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plovs<sect1 id="sect-general">07:10
plovssvn is down again, at least from here07:38
plovspoor John, and i thought i had a bad provider07:39
plovsChrisH: can you sync with svn?08:03
ChrisHplovs: Currently I have extreme problems with my workstation. :(08:12
ChrisHplovs: My main hard disk doesn't boot into anything and the partition table seems to be lost.08:12
=== ChrisH wonders how he can get back his data
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plovsChrisH: knoppix?08:37
ChrisHplovs: Using which tool? I've just plugged the disk into my wife's PC and am running gpart. Didn't recover it so far. :(08:39
plovsChrisH: does knoppix have testdisk?09:03
plovshttp://www.sleuthkit.org/informer/sleuthkit-informer-15.html#testdisk09:03
plovsalso gpart is supposed to be a good tool for this09:09
plovsChrisH: i tried gpart, it is slow but quite nice09:13
sivangplovs: hey!10:07
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sid77hi10:20
plovssivang: hi!10:47
sivangplovs: ah!10:47
sivangplovs: finally I talk to you! where have you been the last days?10:47
plovswe had friends over10:48
plovsso no computer time10:48
plovshave you checked out the svn server lately?10:48
plovsfq2 is starting to look nice10:51
plovssivang: and how are you?10:53
sivangplovs: pretty fine, thanks :)10:55
plovshave you seen anything of the quickguide that corey is making?10:56
sivangplovs: not yet :( svn server is mostly down..10:56
plovsit is not on the svn server10:56
plovsbtw svn is up atm, so check it out10:56
sivangplovs: ok, I'll do that now.10:57
plovssivang: check out fq2/faq2.xml11:01
sivangplovs: checking now11:06
sivangplovs: very very nice 11:16
sivangplovs: so we have 2 short guides, one which is task oriented, one which is feature oriented, and one major hand book. cooool11:16
plovsi thought that would be good11:17
plovswe need a faq and this one covers almost everything, why reinvent the wheel?11:17
sivangplovs: I mean, this just provides every user and his taste something he can use. I like the versatility11:17
sivangplovs: we can reach a broader range of users like that11:18
plovsok, i send something to the list11:19
sivangplovs: please do :-)11:20
sivangplovs: btw, you shoudl also add to the booting editing list, that now there is a gui app to do that in hoary11:20
sivangplovs: "boot-admin"11:20
plovswe must update the whole thing for hoary, i suppose, i finish this and then make a copy of the dir for hoary, so we end up with two versions11:23
sivangplovs: btw, just seen a topic there - how to access website faster, disable ipv6.11:25
sivangplovs: how do I do that?11:25
plovsi'll put it in11:31
plovssivang: ok, update svn11:37
sivangtn11:38
sivangx11:38
sivangupdated, cna't see the ipv6 disagble section?11:39
plovsin tips and tricks11:41
plovsit seems to work11:42
plovsdoesn't crash my browser anyway11:42
plovs:-)11:42
plovsok, i'm of to bed, goodnight!11:47

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