[12:01] <sivang> night!
[07:35] <enrico> Hello!
[07:35] <enrico> plovs: are you at the keyboard?
[11:01] <ChrisH> enrico: Hey... I have three complaints in the #ubuntu-doc report? ;)
[11:03] <enrico> Three?
[11:05] <ChrisH> enrico: baz, moin, my hard disk :)
[11:05] <ChrisH> enrico: I better watch what I say for I will read it later on the list. ;)
[11:05] <enrico> Oh, come on, your HD was not a complaint :)
[11:06] <ChrisH> enrico: You should have heard me swear at my PC last night. :)
[11:06] <enrico> ChrisH: read ubuntu-doc in a minute and see me swear...
[11:18] <ChrisH> enrico: Ah... Enrico "Backspace" Zini :)
[11:20] <enrico> ChrisH: grrr... so grrr...
[11:21] <ChrisH> enrico: The ubuntu live CD rescues me last night btw. :)
[11:21] <enrico> Oh, so!  Are you up and running again now?
[11:21] <ChrisH> enrico: After Partition Magic and gpart failed to restore my partition table that was crashed by either Windows or grub (no idea what it was) I just booted the live CD and... presto... I could read and backup my old partitions.
[11:22] <enrico> oh
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: But cfdisk, sfdisk and fdisk all fail to read the partition table. No idea how it did it.
[11:22] <enrico> It seems like a bit too powerful, but cool!
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: I'll just dd of=/dev/hda the disk later and reinstall everything. Home directory is in NFS, data is in NIS... should be easy going.
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: Knoppix could have been good, too, but it didn't like my NIC.
[11:23] <ChrisH> enrico: So this is a *good* story you may post on the list. :)
[11:24] <enrico> :)  I'll do it tomorrow
[11:24] <enrico> I mean, in tomorrow's edition
[11:24] <enrico> Now, it's time to go downstairs and make sushi!
[11:24] <ChrisH> Hand crafted? Nice.
[11:25] <enrico> sure!
[01:36] <sivang> hey folks
[01:36] <sivang> what's cooking?
[01:36] <sivang> :)
[01:53] <ChrisH> sivang: Nothing. Sushi is eaten cold. :)
[02:01] <ChrisH> I could well skip x-mas. Can't hear the "but this year we will not spend money on presents" sentence. Same lie as every year. :(
[02:09] <ChrisH> sivang: What do you wish for?
[02:15] <ChrisH> sivang: Do you celebrate x-mas that much in il?
[02:24] <sivang> ChrisH: no :) I just wish for a present :) a new laptop? :)
[08:36] <froud> potting around the ubuntu web site. where can is co src's for docs
[08:37] <froud> svn cvs?
[08:39] <froud> anyone tuned
[08:52] <sivang> that was strange
[08:54] <sivang> hey froud , what were you looking for?
[08:55] <froud> I'm looking for a svn or cvs to checkout docbook srcs
[08:55] <froud> loads in the wiki, I see this, but what's in the source
[08:55] <sivang> eh
[08:55] <sivang> just a sec, I'll give you the svn info
[08:56] <froud> perhaps I'm just confused
[08:57] <sivang> no you're right :)
[08:57] <sivang> we have many stuff on the wiki,
[08:57] <froud> yes was reading
[08:57] <sivang> but there is 1 big handbook, 1 faq, 1 quickbook
[08:57] <sivang> in the svn,
[08:57] <froud> but now I am looking for Docbook sources to checkout
[08:58] <sivang> the problem is that it's admin is currently on vacation :(
[08:58] <sivang> but we're working to fix this up - please talk to enrico when he's online here,
[08:58] <sivang> he has mirroed the archive
[08:58] <sivang> plus
[08:58] <froud> So no information on the website to where and what about svn
[08:58] <sivang> this is the info, see if you can checkout sometime when the server comes back again.
[08:59] <sivang> Path: .
[08:59] <sivang> URL: http://69.155.172.150/faq
[08:59] <sivang> Repository UUID: 1e033ed4-87e8-0310-8703-d68c7bbd86c9
[08:59] <sivang> Revision: 94
[08:59] <sivang> Node Kind: directory
[08:59] <sivang> Schedule: normal
[08:59] <sivang> Last Changed Author: plovs
[08:59] <sivang> Last Changed Rev: 94
[08:59] <sivang> Last Changed Date: 2004-12-23 00:37:12 +0200 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004)
[08:59] <sivang> svn co http://69.155.172.150/faq
[08:59] <sivang> should do it, when it's up.
[08:59] <sivang> (it's currently down from here)
[09:00] <froud> ok wheres the info on creating and submitting patches
[09:01] <froud> I want to start in the source by reading and will edit as I go.
[09:01] <froud> Nothing major at first
[09:01] <froud> Learn your system and then move up
[09:02] <sivang> when you'll manage to checkout, just go over the sources.
[09:03] <sivang> when you have a patch, you can send it on the mailing list and people would review it and patch it. If you get big in changes, we will give you svn access.
[09:03] <froud> yep that's my plan. how do you like patches small bits are long and large :-)
[09:03] <froud> I see so they dont mind patches on the list, ok
[09:03] <sivang> no we don't.
[09:03] <sivang> actually, as the current svn server is down,
[09:03] <sivang> so it's would be great.
[09:03] <ChrisH> Great...
[09:04] <sivang> ChrisH: what the hell with the SVN server?
[09:04] <sivang> :)
[09:04] <ChrisH> sivang: Better ask what the hell is going on in my network!
[09:04] <sivang> oh god
[09:04] <sivang> sorry I asked..
[09:04] <ChrisH> sivang: My workstation had the disk crash. You know that.
[09:04] <sivang> Christams taffic?
[09:04] <sivang> yes
[09:04] <ChrisH> sivang: Now the main server (torf=firewall) started to beep a few hours ago. I didn't understand why.
[09:04] <sivang> oh god.
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: After a reboot the BIOS told me the CPU would be 95 hot
[09:05] <sivang> eh!!!!!!!!!11
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: CPU fan stopped working.
[09:05] <sivang> is he ok? I care for this little machine..
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: CPU crashed, took the mainboard with it.
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: Then I thought I'd try the CPU in Pamelas PC.
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: Guess what...
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: Mainboard broken, too.
[09:05] <ChrisH> sivang: Two PCs to hell just because of a tiny CPU cooler.
[09:06] <ChrisH> sivang: Just went to the PC shop and spent 500 Eur on new hardware just for the sake of a stupid CPU fan.
[09:06] <sivang> my god
[09:06] <sivang> that's so bad
[09:06] <ChrisH> sivang: It hadn't been so bad if not everything else in my network would go wild at the moment.
[09:06] <ChrisH> ...and that one day before christmas
[09:06] <sivang> what else has gone bad?
[09:06] <ChrisH> At least torf seems to be restored.
[09:06] <sivang> ah so his back alive? Phew
[09:06] <ChrisH> sivang: My own PC... where I could hardly restore anything.
[09:06] <sivang> yes I heared about the crash,
[09:07] <sivang> well I had something like that 6 months ago - 
[09:07] <ChrisH> sivang: I need to switch it off again in a few minutes to close the case and put it back into the 19" rack.
[09:07] <sivang> eventually I had to buy a new machine.
[09:07] <ChrisH> sivang: The disk crash wouldn't be too bad either because most things are on the file server (torf) and backed up daily.
[09:07] <ChrisH> sivang: Just that I was working no a giant video project about Marco and needed to put the 50 GB of data on my PC. And all of a sudden that partition with the video data on it disappeared.
[09:07] <sivang> ChrisH: sure, I am not concenred about torf's uptime - just want it to live :)
[09:08] <ChrisH> sivang: 3 of 4 PC are broken at the moment!
[09:08] <ChrisH> sivang: You could try if email works again. I'm just checking everything. And if http://workaround.org works.
[09:08] <sivang> ChrisH: maybe it's a bad luck day? You should take some time off and come back after christmas, like everbody else.
[09:08] <sivang> I'll check that now.
[09:08] <ChrisH> sivang: I'll surely not do much for Ubuntu in the next two days anyway. :)
[09:08] <ChrisH> sivang: thanks
[09:09] <ChrisH> GAH!
[09:09] <ChrisH> It's so depressing I can hardly suppress a smile. :)
[09:10] <sivang> speaking of crashed machine, I wonder what goes with the SVN server..erghghh
[09:10] <sivang> people want to help, and all I can tell them - post the patch to the mailing list
[09:10] <sivang> :)
[09:11] <ChrisH> The SVN server is really driving people nuts and away. But if we had moved it back to my server it would have been broken now, too. :)
[09:11] <sivang> true
[09:11] <ChrisH> Let's wait until after x-mas and have the svn repo moved to canonical asap
[09:11] <sivang> yes!
[09:11] <sivang> _ASAP_
[09:11] <ChrisH> The -doc team seems to be built on the same indian graveyard as my 19" rack
[09:12] <ChrisH> Hardly anything is going as expected atm.
[09:12] <ChrisH> bbiab... rebooting again.
[09:13] <froud> sivang, seems like this may take some time. perhaps you have a working copy of HEAD and can export a pritine copy
[09:13] <froud> I will start with that and merge into my wc when I can do a co
[09:14] <froud> if you put it on the net i'll wget
[09:16] <sivang> hmm, I am just fraid you'll work on stuff which already or will be simul. worked on through the repo, then it would be a pain patching it..
[09:17] <sivang> but I can put it there even for you to give a glance
[09:17] <sivang> :)
[09:17] <froud> ill do svn up before I merge
[09:17] <sivang> ok.
[09:18] <sivang> Have to get some food
[09:19] <froud> ok I have to go myself. send mail to sean@inwords.co.za with the uri
[09:19] <froud> I'll check for svn in the morning
[09:26] <cenerentola> ciao
[09:38] <plovs> hi guys
[09:53] <sivang> hey plovs 
[09:53] <sivang> do you know what goes with the svn server?
[09:58] <plovs> nothing, it is being depressed, then it does nothing
[09:58] <sivang> ah ok
[09:58] <plovs> i suppose John has a bas isp, and since he is on vacation, he doesn't notice, so doesn't yell at anyone
[09:58] <plovs> bad isp
[09:58] <sivang> I see.
[09:59] <sivang> Well, we should get it into canonical server farm ASAP
[09:59] <plovs> agreed
[09:59] <plovs> at least my doc goes ahead
[09:59] <plovs> what are you doing atm?
[10:00] <sivang> what doc of yors?
[10:01] <sivang> working on gst,setting the israeli ubuntu web server (zope), and hopefully when svn is up writing some stuff in my section of the handbook
[10:01] <plovs> also zope? why?
[10:02] <sivang> I want a content management system.
[10:02] <sivang> :)
[10:02] <sivang> for the main website, and I am going to set up a wiki for the live stuff.
[10:04] <plovs> where is the server located, at home with you?
[10:05] <sivang> not, smurifx is kindly providing webspace for country teams.
[10:06] <plovs> nice, on debian?
[10:06] <sivang> no idea
[10:06] <sivang> I think on ubuntu servers.
[10:06] <plovs> i doubt ubuntu servers run ubuntu :-)
[10:07] <sivang> well, they do :)
[10:07] <plovs> your kidding!
[10:07] <sivang> ubuntu is _really_ suited to be a server machine, and all of the canonical servers - run warty
[10:07] <sivang> I am _not_ kidding.
[10:07] <plovs> wow
[10:07] <sivang> why are you surprised?
[10:07] <plovs> i only use debian
[10:08] <plovs> ubuntu is so desktopish
[10:08] <plovs> but obviously i;m wrong
[10:08] <sivang> Well, I'm not sure how suited it is for low end servers like my debian router, but if you have two G5 servers :)
[10:08] <sivang> there are 2 G5 Apple servers in the canonical computer farm :)
[10:09] <plovs> i only have intel servers, but g5's would be great :-)
[10:10] <plovs> off course ubuntu _is_ debian
[10:10] <plovs> and debian rocks
[10:11] <plovs> i am thinking about putting debian on my work laptop G4
[10:11] <plovs> ubuntu i mean
[10:14] <plovs> sivang: what are you doing on gst?
[10:14] <sivang> plovs: extending the users profile mechanism to allow for templates of users to be added to the system, enabling a set of different default groups per each
[10:18] <plovs> nice
[10:18] <plovs> in python?
[10:21] <cenerentola> what is gst?
[10:21] <cenerentola> i know you'll hate me for this...
[10:22] <cenerentola> but hey presto... a G5 it's a masterpiece of Sylicon Art... how can you avoid Mac OS X?
[10:22] <cenerentola> how would you exploit all its registries?
[10:23] <cenerentola> this thing make me blue.. but there's no Linux Distribution hand-crafted for ppc
[10:23] <cenerentola> plovs: you should try SPARC
[10:24] <cenerentola> im actually looking for ppl to help fabbione [and me]  porting ubuntu on SPARC architecture..
[10:25] <cenerentola> then the last step is ARM/MIPS... RISC POWER:
[10:25] <cenerentola> .
[10:25] <plovs> cenerentola: try OSX for a while, and you'll know why you want to install linux on it
[10:26] <sivang> plovs: perl / gtk / C
[10:26] <plovs> and yeah, i would like to have a sparc, but they are # bit to $$ for me :-(
[10:26] <sivang> cenerentola: I think they have||working-on a special kenrel for the inhouse kernel to use it to maximum.
[10:27] <sivang> *im house server.
[10:27] <sivang> ergh!
[10:27] <sivang> in house servers.
[10:27] <cenerentola> in house?
[10:27] <plovs> :-)
[10:27] <sivang> in house server of the firm.
[10:27] <plovs> in the house and outside on the street?
[10:27] <plovs> :-)
[10:28] <plovs> sorry
[10:28] <cenerentola> sivang: i cant get you.
[10:28] <cenerentola> plovs: you own a g5 and you say that sparc are too expensive?
[10:28] <plovs> cenerentola: in house is an idiom for in the company
[10:28] <sivang> cenerentola: I think canonical has someone working||finished-working on a spcial kernel that will run the G5s
[10:28] <cenerentola> sivang what kind of university do you attend?
[10:28] <cenerentola> sivang: yep but all the rest.. is not optimized
[10:28] <sivang> cenerentola: it's not me hehe :) I just use thier wonderful library and broadband from time to time
[10:29] <plovs> cenerentola: i have a G4, and it is not _mine_ it belongs to my work
[10:29] <sivang> cenerentola: www.technion.ac.il
[10:29] <cenerentola> sivang: yep what course?
[10:29] <sivang> check it out, you might want to do your Ph.D here :)
[10:29] <cenerentola> plovs: right.
[10:29] <plovs> sivang: it is not only canonical, several people are working on the G5 kernel, i read it somewhere, google knows
[10:30] <sivang> cenerentola: plovs said it even better than me :)
[10:30] <sivang> WRT the G5 specialized kernels.
[10:30] <sivang> I myself have a personal problem with such closed hardware, I think intel can and will supress them in some point of time.
[10:30] <plovs> sigh, that would be nice to use
[10:30] <sivang> plus I really like intel's approach for open hardware.
[10:31] <plovs> sivang: actually it is not closer then intel, more open actually
[10:31] <sivang> I may get a pegasus PC , when I have a couple of pounds to through.
[10:31] <plovs> the powerpc chip at least is well documented
[10:31] <cenerentola> sivang: intel is not open..
[10:31] <sivang> plovs: it is? so how come I can't go and buy ASUS's G4 for half the price? :)
[10:31] <cenerentola> sivang: intel's are the worst thing, i mean hw, on this heart.
[10:32] <plovs> sivang: because the market is too small
[10:32] <sivang> intel is not open? so explain to me how come the first platform linux ever powered was i386 ? :)
[10:32] <sivang> plovs: only 6 months ago I heared from IBM that they are planning to lease it out for other companies as well, still nothing conceret.
[10:32] <plovs> actually several companies make powerpc, and it is a very nice platform, it runs slower, so less heat
[10:33] <plovs> ibm, motorola
[10:33] <sivang> plovs: gemme some names :)
[10:33] <sivang> other then pegasus
[10:33] <sivang> :)
[10:33] <cenerentola> sivang: have you ever heard of RISC architectures?
[10:33] <plovs> intel is not open, why do you think we have all those horrible bioses on intel and not on powerpc?
[10:34] <sivang> plovs: this is because forms like dell and gateway hack their own bioses, and intel can't possibly be hold responsible for they b0rked code :)
[10:35] <sivang> Linux works perfectly with a standrad AMI/Phoenix bioses, as per my experiance though.
[10:35] <cenerentola> sivang: please +ignore your thoughts please ;)
[10:35] <sivang> cenerentola: hey andrea, I'm not that hooked on it, I just like cheap things :))
[10:35] <sivang> actually, I admire RISC archs, they are MUCH superios 
[10:35] <sivang> superior.
[10:35] <sivang> but, they cost...:(
[10:36] <cenerentola> ok buy a playstation
[10:36] <cenerentola> its MIPS
[10:36] <sivang> hehehe
[10:36] <plovs> powerpc is used in: tivo, amiga, the new xbox (!)
[10:36] <sivang> M$ laied hands on the POWER arch! nononono!
[10:36] <sivang> :)
[10:36] <plovs> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC
[10:37] <plovs> powerpc is really cool, but intel is very powerfull, and with chips, the more you sell, the cheaper they get
[10:37] <cenerentola> plovs: well dont worry they, intel, wont go over 3 ghz..
[10:37] <cenerentola> only because... they can't
[10:37] <plovs> sivang: those bioses are crap, really bad
[10:38] <plovs> openfirmware is faster, smaller and more configurable, especially for clusters and stuff
[10:38] <sivang> plovs: it depends what you want, if you need fast floating point cruncher, well, intel can get to 4GHz and still POWER will win :0
[10:38] <sivang> :)
[10:38] <plovs> why do you think people are trying to make openfirmware for intel?
[10:39] <sivang> plovs: do you have anything I can read about intel "closed" approach to hardware?
[10:39] <plovs> google centrino
[10:40] <plovs> for example
[10:41] <plovs> off course i386 itself is pretty open
[10:42] <plovs> but still, intel is still a real american company
[10:42] <plovs> but i386 is still the cheapest overall line of processors
[10:45] <plovs> sivang: a very nice article: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3997
[10:46] <cenerentola> plovs: i386 its not pretty open..
[10:46] <sivang> cenerentola: pleae elaborate.
[10:47] <cenerentola> sivang: just send an email to alessandro rubini [the one who wrote "linux device drivers"]  saying that you support x86
[10:47] <sivang> and ?
[10:47] <sivang> :)
[10:48] <cenerentola> ...feel the pain
[10:49] <plovs> cenerentola: all the specs of most i386 processors are known afaik
[10:50] <plovs> sivang: powerpc processor are just better, but better does not alway win
[10:50] <cenerentola> yep but that's not 
[10:50] <cenerentola> OPEN ARCHITECTURE
[10:50] <cenerentola> plovs: powerpc are better.. but with linux you dont exploit them all
[10:51] <plovs> cenerentola: why do you think that OSX runs better on powerpc then linux? the OSX kernel is open, it can not have any secrets
[10:52] <plovs> darwin is bsd licensed, linux can just copy and paste if they would like to
[10:53] <cenerentola> plovs: you are right... but programs for mac os x are written for that very architecture..
[10:53] <cenerentola> optimized for it..
[10:53] <cenerentola> you can't always have optimization and portability at the same time
[10:54] <plovs> cenerentola: the only problem with the G5 is the hardware apple added to it, some is really closed like the airport cards etc, but the powerpc is not the problem afaik
[10:55] <cenerentola> what i mean is that if you dont use mac os x..
[10:55] <cenerentola> you are not going to use at best every sylicon cell of the processor..
[10:55] <plovs> linux outperforms freebsd, the last time i checked ed ergo, it outperforms osx, especially in the long run
[10:56] <plovs> the kernel is what counts
[10:56] <plovs> the freebsd kernel is slower then the linux kernel
[10:56] <plovs> not that i would notice it, it is not as if freebsd is like windows 95 or something
[10:57] <cenerentola> plovs: no that's not..
[10:57] <plovs> ibm actively promotes linux on powerpc, rs6000 etc, many big ibm machines are powerpc
[10:58] <cenerentola> freebsdk can be slower than linux.. but what does matter with code optimization..
[10:58] <cenerentola> is like writing in assembly or c++
[10:59] <cenerentola> IBM ignored the who personal computer concept then they saw Apple computers moving in to a new market. IBM decided they need a piece of that pie but Apple had such a lead that there was no way to design an purely IBM product bring competition to Apple. In an effort to keep the architecture from being open IBM kept BIOS top secret and very proprietary. The rest of the PC was just off the shelf componets bought from various vendors. Like Intel for ex
[10:59] <cenerentola> btw
[11:00] <cenerentola> plovs, sivang , everybody: Buon Natale.
[11:00] <plovs> cenerentola: agreed, ibm gave apple a compiler for the G5 (64-bit stuff?) that will make OSX fast, it is a better compiler then gcc
[11:01] <plovs> a good idea, sivang, cenerentola good night, all, good night!
[11:03] <cenerentola> ciao plovs
[11:03] <cenerentola> good night
[11:03] <cenerentola> ciao sivang ciao everybuddy
[11:04] <cenerentola> peace