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| hornbeck | hello | 03:16 |
|---|---|---|
| hornbeck | anyone around? | 03:16 |
| === adgf [~adgf@h00a0cc687033.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | morn | 08:34 |
| enrico | hello froud1 | 08:37 |
| enrico | hello froud! | 08:37 |
| froud | bright and sunny in johannesburg following a night of rain | 08:48 |
| froud | enrico, I got http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/faq-svk.tar.gz | 08:56 |
| froud | thanks | 08:56 |
| enrico | bright and sunny in Kaohsiung as well: I have to install xsnow to understand we're in christmas time :) | 08:56 |
| enrico | froud: no problem! | 08:56 |
| enrico | froud: please use the list or IRC for any problems you might have | 08:57 |
| froud | snow what's that | 08:57 |
| froud | :-) | 08:57 |
| froud | enrico, I know I can post patches to the list, but how do you like your patches? | 08:59 |
| froud | ie | 08:59 |
| froud | do you preffer a person to make all changes to a file and patch | 08:59 |
| froud | or make all changes everywhere and make one big patch | 08:59 |
| === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | sivang, boker tov | 09:08 |
| sivang | froud: hey shaun , whassup? :) | 09:09 |
| sivang | froud: didn't know you were speaking hebrew... | 09:09 |
| sivang | enrico: morning!!! | 09:10 |
| sivang | enrico: I see you put a great deal of work into the wiki in the last couple of days, got any sleep? :) | 09:10 |
| froud | sivang, betag ma ata choshev | 09:11 |
| froud | sivang, I lived there for 10 years | 09:12 |
| froud | I got the src's thanks to enrico | 09:13 |
| froud | I was just looking at ubuntu.xsl | 09:16 |
| froud | <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/> | 09:16 |
| froud | would it not be better to now use | 09:16 |
| froud | /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/ | 09:16 |
| froud | xhtml.chunk.xsl | 09:17 |
| froud | xhtml/chunk.xsl | 09:17 |
| froud | That way in future upgrades of the xsl ubuntu.xsl won't break | 09:18 |
| sivang | froud: ok, now, lemme get my thoughts straigt..Are you a former israeli? | 09:19 |
| === enrico is back | ||
| enrico | froud: IDo as you prefer. | 09:48 |
| enrico | froud: I'd say do as you prefer. | 09:48 |
| enrico | You can make a full patch, then I can apply it to the svk shapshot I have as another branch, and do the merge | 09:49 |
| sivang | froud: yes | 09:49 |
| sivang | froud: It seems that we didn't know much about docbook but went striaght ahead and started hacking on it, | 09:49 |
| froud | enrico, ok so I will make patches on a per file level | 09:49 |
| sivang | enrico: can we get svn access for froud ? | 09:49 |
| enrico | froud: I just made a branch for you corresponding to the checkout I gave you | 09:50 |
| sivang | enrico: since when is that checkout? | 09:50 |
| enrico | sivang: As soon as John is back | 09:50 |
| enrico | sivang: sorry: export | 09:50 |
| froud | enrico, ok | 09:50 |
| sivang | eh | 09:50 |
| sivang | enrico: do you know if you had the lastest version ? | 09:50 |
| enrico | I'm so happy with this svk. | 09:50 |
| sivang | svk? | 09:50 |
| enrico | sivang: I can tell you the revision number | 09:50 |
| sivang | the mirror thingy? | 09:50 |
| sivang | enrico: do tell me | 09:51 |
| enrico | sivang: http://svk.elixus.org/ | 09:51 |
| enrico | I can branch and merge and do whatever I want locally, then when I want I can sync with upstream in a big commit | 09:51 |
| sivang | ah! | 09:51 |
| enrico | It can use meld as a conflict resolution tool as well | 09:51 |
| sivang | arch for svn devotees | 09:51 |
| sivang | :) | 09:51 |
| froud | enrico, svk is cool | 09:51 |
| froud | is th ebuild env for docs not updated | 09:52 |
| enrico | yes! It also accesses CVS repositories, and they plan to access Arch in the future | 09:52 |
| enrico | froud: afaik, everyone is testing them with yelp | 09:52 |
| froud | I see the xsl:import is <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/> | 09:52 |
| froud | this is old | 09:52 |
| enrico | froud: you're welcome to fix it | 09:53 |
| froud | yes yelp is fun | 09:53 |
| froud | Shaun did some great work there | 09:53 |
| froud | enrico, problem is it dont help if I fix it and the build env does not have the same path | 09:53 |
| sivang | eh Shaun McKane, an open source hero :) | 09:54 |
| froud | also the makefile only builds html | 09:54 |
| froud | what about pdf | 09:54 |
| enrico | froud: I don't know if anyone is using the makefile at all | 09:54 |
| sivang | I am :) | 09:54 |
| enrico | I imagine when we need to export HTML or PDF, we'll see about the makefile | 09:55 |
| enrico | sivang: ah, oh, cool! | 09:55 |
| froud | enrico, make file is best way | 09:55 |
| sivang | I've had to modify it by hand to produce the html for the deb pacakjge.. | 09:55 |
| enrico | froud: if you master the DocBook build thing, please update the makefile as well | 09:55 |
| sivang | froud: would you be willing to add your changes? :) | 09:55 |
| froud | yes and more but I need to discuss it with you guys | 09:55 |
| froud | no point me doing what people dont want | 09:56 |
| sivang | ok, what have you had in mind? | 09:56 |
| froud | my tool chain is docbook dtd, xsl, saxon, fop | 09:56 |
| froud | you guys need xi | 09:57 |
| froud | so I can use xsltproc | 09:57 |
| froud | my makefile will need all these | 09:57 |
| enrico | froud: if it's in Ubuntu, we can put it as a build-dep | 09:57 |
| enrico | froud: if it's not in Ubuntu, it can be a problem | 09:57 |
| froud | so fop may be the problem | 09:57 |
| sivang | froud: xsltproc is already a dependecy for that package. | 09:58 |
| froud | but the build env for docs should be seperate from ubuntu build | 09:58 |
| sivang | please elaborate | 09:59 |
| froud | The makefile enables us to produce presentational targets | 09:59 |
| sivang | froud: also, shaun told me we where abusing docbook in a way never be seen before - he specifically regerred to the inline image inclusion, do you know anything about it? | 09:59 |
| froud | yes | 10:00 |
| sivang | enrico: we need to fix shaun also an account, when john comes back from vegas :) | 10:00 |
| froud | I will mark this for fixing | 10:00 |
| froud | where is your issue tracker | 10:00 |
| === froud is deafend by the silence | ||
| enrico | froud: the mailing list | 10:02 |
| enrico | froud: or bugzilla | 10:02 |
| enrico | froud: there's a 'documentation | 10:02 |
| froud | your bugzilla | 10:02 |
| enrico | froud: there's a 'documentation' item in bugzilla | 10:02 |
| froud | uri | 10:02 |
| enrico | bugzilla.ubuntu.com | 10:02 |
| sivang | bugzilla would be good | 10:03 |
| sivang | although I would rather replace it with malone :) | 10:03 |
| froud | ok cool | 10:03 |
| froud | my thinking is that people should be able to build docbook for html and pdf regardless of the ubuntu dist | 10:03 |
| froud | then there is the build for ubuntu itself | 10:04 |
| froud | three make targets | 10:04 |
| sivang | froud: so you mean, make our docs buildable in any distro? I am not sure I am following you... | 10:04 |
| froud | placing this make in the ubuntu src tree whould not be a problem if it is dcoumented | 10:04 |
| froud | sivang, there are times when you want the docs to build outside of ubuntu | 10:05 |
| sivang | like in suse? :) | 10:05 |
| froud | yet you still want to be able to package it for ubuntu | 10:06 |
| froud | yes, lik ein SuSE :-0 | 10:06 |
| enrico | froud: sure, the docs should build outside of ubuntu, but they should be built on ubuntu as well, so that they can be packaged in the distro | 10:06 |
| froud | enrico, yesssss | 10:06 |
| enrico | I don't know if the autobuilders allow packages from universe: I can ask if you want | 10:06 |
| enrico | or maybe sivan knows | 10:06 |
| froud | The only component is Apache FOP | 10:07 |
| sivang | enrico: we need to check, I can check each dependecy see where it stired. | 10:07 |
| froud | I dont think its in ubuntu | 10:07 |
| sivang | Apache FOP? | 10:07 |
| sivang | froud: do you have a link to it? | 10:07 |
| froud | Yes this is the only component that will cause a problem if it is not in ubuntu | 10:08 |
| froud | http://xml.apache.org/fop/ | 10:08 |
| sivang | froud: do we really need all those formats? | 10:09 |
| sivang | froud: I mean, xsltproc can do PDF i think | 10:09 |
| sivang | enrico: am I wrong? | 10:09 |
| froud | enrico, btw since ubuntu is using GNOME the makefile can also build for yelp | 10:09 |
| froud | sivang, wrong | 10:09 |
| froud | and right | 10:09 |
| sivang | froud: so there is no single thing that can make PDF in ubuntu without inclusion of FOP? | 10:10 |
| froud | xsltproc will create an xsl:fo file | 10:10 |
| sivang | eh, and then FOP can feed on it? | 10:10 |
| froud | that gets transformed to pdf rtf etc | 10:10 |
| sivang | rtf... | 10:10 |
| sivang | hmm | 10:10 |
| enrico | xmlto | 10:10 |
| === sivang scratches | ||
| enrico | let me look more | 10:10 |
| enrico | apt-cache show xmlto | 10:11 |
| sivang | enrico: there must be something already in ubuntu allowing for at least half of the formats FOP supports. | 10:11 |
| enrico | that should do everything, take care of everything | 10:11 |
| enrico | it's in Debian, though, dunno about Ubuntu | 10:11 |
| froud | we lose the docbook fop extensions | 10:11 |
| enrico | http://cyberelk.net/tim/xmlto/ | 10:11 |
| froud | we will lose | 10:11 |
| enrico | froud: with xmlto, you mean? | 10:11 |
| sivang | froud: we can try suggest it for the seeds.. | 10:12 |
| enrico | I suggest to consult mako on this | 10:12 |
| sivang | true | 10:12 |
| sivang | mako : ping | 10:12 |
| enrico | he should be the best person to ask about DocBook toolchains to use in Ubuntu | 10:12 |
| sivang | yes, he already familiar with them in debian. | 10:12 |
| froud | For DVI, PDF and PostScript output, Sebastian Rahtz's PassiveTeX is required. | 10:12 |
| froud | I'm not sure we want to complicate the toolchain that much | 10:12 |
| froud | enrico, yes with xmlto | 10:13 |
| froud | echo $CLASSPATH | 10:14 |
| froud | /usr/share/saxon-6.5.3/saxon.jar:/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/extensions/saxon65.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/build/fop.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/batik.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/xalan-2.4.1.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/xercesImpl-2.2.1.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/JimiProClasses.jar:/usr/share/java/fop-0.20.5/lib/avalon-framework-cvs-20020806.jar | 10:14 |
| froud | :/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/extensions/ | 10:15 |
| froud | we lose this | 10:15 |
| sivang | froud: hmm | 10:16 |
| froud | my toolchain is all java, but I can move to xsltproc for most suff | 10:16 |
| froud | the problem is if we need PDF | 10:16 |
| froud | do we need it? | 10:17 |
| froud | would we like to have it? | 10:17 |
| froud | if not then there is no problem | 10:17 |
| froud | if yes then we need an xsl:fo rendering engine that is in ubuntu | 10:18 |
| froud | or include one | 10:18 |
| froud | fop is widely used | 10:19 |
| froud | do we have to distribute an xsl:fo engine? | 10:20 |
| froud | not sure it is needed | 10:20 |
| froud | from user perspective they will set their own toolchain | 10:20 |
| froud | they will by default be able to transform the xhtml | 10:20 |
| froud | and yelp does not need anything except the db xml | 10:21 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:ChrisH] : Merry X-Mas from the Ubuntu Documentation Team | ||
| sivang | ChrisH: marry xmas , hoo hoo hoo ! | 10:21 |
| sivang | ChrisH: Feeling better? | 10:21 |
| ChrisH | ;) | 10:21 |
| ChrisH | yup | 10:21 |
| sivang | how is our loved torf? | 10:21 |
| ChrisH | torf is back up... :) | 10:21 |
| sivang | mail started to work again around 3am | 10:21 |
| ChrisH | Just the on-mainboard-NIC is complete trash. Took me another hour to find that. | 10:22 |
| sivang | ChrisH: god, a new mb? | 10:22 |
| ChrisH | It negotiates at 10 Mbps/half-duplex. | 10:22 |
| froud | yipes they still make nics like that | 10:22 |
| ChrisH | Sure a new mainboard. 2x new mainboard, 2x new CPU (P4/2.4 GHz), 2x new RAM | 10:22 |
| sivang | froud: yelp does fine with db/xml | 10:22 |
| froud | sivang, yes | 10:22 |
| ChrisH | sivang: Everything was broken after the CPUs got trashed. | 10:22 |
| sivang | froud: but PDF is definetly something we want to support I think | 10:22 |
| ChrisH | froud: Indeed. Cheap stuff that keeps admins occupied. :) | 10:23 |
| froud | OK, I will do like this | 10:23 |
| sivang | froud: did you get the branch enrico preparedyou? | 10:23 |
| froud | I will create make targets for everything | 10:23 |
| froud | sivang, yes | 10:23 |
| sivang | froud: many people like pdf to print and stuff.. | 10:23 |
| froud | then you guys can decide | 10:23 |
| === cenerentola [~cenerento@84.222.38.88] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | hows about docbook 4.3 can I use it | 10:24 |
| froud | you have | 10:25 |
| froud | <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN" | 10:25 |
| froud | "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd"> | 10:25 |
| froud | want about <!DOCTYPE book PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" | 10:25 |
| froud | "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd"> | 10:25 |
| mako | hey, what's up | 10:25 |
| sivang | yo mako dude :) | 10:26 |
| sivang | marry xmas | 10:26 |
| enrico | froud: I'd say, let's think about pdf when we need it :) | 10:26 |
| froud | ok no need for it | 10:26 |
| enrico | I'll have to leave in like 5 minutes | 10:26 |
| enrico | mako: talking about DocBook toolchain for Ubuntu | 10:26 |
| sivang | mako: froud has noted to our attention that he uses Apache FOP for his doc toolchain, | 10:26 |
| sivang | mako: we checked and FOP doesn't appear to be packaged for Ubuntu, | 10:27 |
| sivang | mako: do you know of anything already available that produces pdfs out of db? | 10:27 |
| mako | not even in universe? | 10:27 |
| mako | yeah, i use normal walsh's modular print and html stylesheets | 10:27 |
| mako | docbook-xsl | 10:27 |
| sivang | mako: that's produces PDFs also? | 10:27 |
| mako | yes | 10:27 |
| froud | mako, it's only if we want pdf | 10:27 |
| froud | mako, they make xsl:fo | 10:28 |
| mako | the print stylesheets will make pdfs | 10:28 |
| froud | you still need rendering engine | 10:28 |
| === sivang thinks we need pdf. many users are used to it and it sometimes eases printing. | ||
| froud | mako uri | 10:28 |
| mako | trust me, they can make pdfs | 10:28 |
| mako | froud: i use xmlto i believe | 10:28 |
| froud | ah, that makes sense now | 10:29 |
| mako | froud: dude, i wrote my thesis in docbook | 10:29 |
| froud | PassiveTex | 10:29 |
| mako | i printed it as pdfs :) | 10:29 |
| mako | pdflatex | 10:29 |
| froud | sure | 10:29 |
| mako | yeah, it goes db->latex->dvi->pdflatex i believe | 10:29 |
| froud | do we really want to complicate the toolchain like this | 10:29 |
| mako | like what? | 10:30 |
| froud | my chain is saxon (xsltproc), dtd, xsl, fop | 10:30 |
| froud | so for pdf | 10:30 |
| froud | xml > xsl:fo > pdf | 10:30 |
| mako | but will that work with the modular stylesheets? | 10:31 |
| froud | yes | 10:31 |
| cenerentola | mako: can i ask what was it all about, your thesis? | 10:31 |
| froud | the problem is we dont have an xsl:fo rendering engin in ubuntu | 10:31 |
| mako | cenerentola: http://mako.yukidoke.org/projects/collablit | 10:31 |
| mako | froud: file a wishlist bug in bugzilla and assigne it to mako | 10:31 |
| mako | mako@canonical.com | 10:31 |
| froud | ok | 10:32 |
| mako | i'm not convinced it's really better | 10:32 |
| mako | all that i care about is that a pdf pops out the end | 10:32 |
| froud | no just easier | 10:32 |
| mako | i run a single command, i get a pdf | 10:32 |
| froud | yes | 10:32 |
| mako | i'm not exactly sure how much easier you're going to make it :) | 10:32 |
| === sivang would prefer to avoid using java.. | ||
| froud | I will create make file | 10:32 |
| froud | make pdf | 10:32 |
| mako | i already h ave one | 10:32 |
| mako | well several | 10:33 |
| === mako shrugs | ||
| froud | mean for svn | 10:33 |
| sivang | mako: for creating how many tagets? | 10:33 |
| sivang | or what targets? | 10:33 |
| mako | listen guys, i have to go catch a train | 10:33 |
| sivang | mako: going back to airport? :) | 10:33 |
| mako | i'm going to barcelona | 10:33 |
| sivang | mako: again! :) | 10:33 |
| mako | in any case, email me if you need anything more or mention my name.. i'll read the log | 10:33 |
| sivang | mako: bon voyage | 10:33 |
| mako | froud: it can go in ubuntu if it is has non-free dependencies | 10:34 |
| sivang | mako: my regards to this wonderful city | 10:34 |
| froud | mako, apche lic | 10:34 |
| mako | is is java? | 10:34 |
| froud | he he | 10:34 |
| mako | does it run with a free java runtime? | 10:34 |
| mako | if the answer is no, it can go in ubuntu | 10:34 |
| froud | can do | 10:34 |
| cenerentola | babbaro: what course was it? | 10:35 |
| froud | Java 1.2.x or later Runtime Environment | 10:35 |
| froud | ok this is not important, can sort it later | 10:37 |
| enrico | froud: right: let's settle with what we can have for now, which is already enough to get started | 10:37 |
| enrico | the moment we'll be unsatisfied, we can address it | 10:37 |
| froud | ok so patches will come on a file basis. I'll look at the image stuff Shaun was complaining about. | 10:38 |
| froud | I will put patches in bugzilla | 10:38 |
| froud | tis better, right | 10:38 |
| sivang | froud: thanks, I don't want to piss him off | 10:39 |
| sivang | :) | 10:39 |
| sivang | he was like "dude, you are abusing docbook in a never to be seen before way" :)) | 10:39 |
| froud | you do have some strange things in this source | 10:41 |
| froud | but hey we'll fix it :-0 | 10:41 |
| froud | :-) | 10:41 |
| froud | merry xmaaaaaas | 10:41 |
| froud | african greetings to everyone | 10:42 |
| === froud is off to do some labor | ||
| sivang | froud: marry xmas! | 10:43 |
| === sivang is off to get some food | ||
| === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
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| cenerentola | does someone know the name of a web-map? i mean one of those maps, that show something's [like a surname] concentration.. | 02:42 |
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| sid77 | hi | 05:52 |
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